Forum V: Archive
Compiled: Tues, Nov 21, 2000 at 14:48:02 (GMT)
From: Nov 07, 2000 To: Nov 18, 2000 Page: 3 Of: 5


Salam -:- When is the next Ex-premie leaders meeting? -:- Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 14:03:49 (GMT)
__ Cynthia -:- Announcement: EPO Leaders Meeting Info Here -:- Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 18:45:53 (GMT)
__ __ Sir Dave (Secret Agent) -:- Announcement: EPO Leaders Meeting Info Here -:- Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 01:19:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ cq -:- Good work agent Dave ... -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 20:53:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Good work agent Dave ... -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 01:06:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ cq -:- What waist size is the maha? (nt) -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 18:09:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ Cynthia - Scorpio-1 -:- Maharaji Clone Still Cannot Walk With the Crown... -:- Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 15:22:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Sir Dave (Secret Agent) -:- That's the beauty of it -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 00:45:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Cynthia - Scorpio-1 -:- Very Good, Sir Dave (Secret Agent)..well said... -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 21:02:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Secret Agent Man (S.A.M.) -:- Maharaji Clown Still Cannot Walk With the Crown... -:- Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 20:42:01 (GMT)
__ __ Salam -:- I think you're going to need more eggs -:- Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 22:09:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ Cynthia a/k/a Scorpio-1 -:- Meeting of Ex-Premie Leaders - More Information -:- Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 23:26:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Lurking Luitenant -:- Ostplay Uingsay ngelishay!!! OOLSFAY!!!!!! NT -:- Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 05:59:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- I thought of that too................nt -:- Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 12:52:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ urclinglay osterpay -:- ....ammmday chamaturesay..taynay -:- Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 20:39:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia - Scorpio-1 -:- onay igpay atinlay eenednay -:- Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 23:05:42 (GMT)

The Accountant -:- debits/credits -:- Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 09:58:33 (GMT)
__ Scott T. -:- Start making sense. -:- Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 12:24:18 (GMT)

algore -:- w/o jim...this room is like black and white -:- Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 09:27:54 (GMT)
__ Period Penguin -:- you talkin' to me? (nt) -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 20:55:05 (GMT)

Rick -:- OT - recount West Palm Beach -:- Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 06:54:30 (GMT)
__ Jerry -:- It's gotten out of hand -:- Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 07:31:30 (GMT)
__ __ Scott T. -:- It's in hand, but barely. -:- Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 12:48:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Surely it would be better in future -:- Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 15:25:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Scott T. -:- Surely it would be better in future -:- Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 15:54:50 (GMT)
__ janet -:- OT - recount West Palm Beach -:- Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 06:59:15 (GMT)
__ __ Scott T. -:- OT - recount West Palm Beach -:- Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 13:05:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ Scott T. -:- OT - one more possibility -:- Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 13:20:31 (GMT)
__ __ Harry Schwartz -:- - count East Palm Beach -:- Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 09:47:48 (GMT)

Rick -:- OT - election manual recount -:- Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 01:35:46 (GMT)
__ Jerry -:- This is getting crazy -:- Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 03:32:26 (GMT)
__ __ Scott T. -:- Chad, and other hanging issues. -:- Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 13:46:27 (GMT)
__ __ Sir Dave -:- Nothing unusual here -:- Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 11:56:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ Scott T. -:- Nothing unusual here -:- Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 13:52:46 (GMT)
__ __ Rick -:- This is getting crazy -:- Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 06:32:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ Scott T. -:- Very well stated. Thanks. (nt) -:- Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 15:07:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ janet -:- margin of error vs human value -:- Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 06:56:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Rick -:- margin of error vs human value -:- Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 16:28:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Scott T. -:- margin of error vs human value -:- Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 13:56:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ a0aji -:- margin of error vs human value -:- Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 13:43:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Scott T. -:- margin of error vs human value -:- Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 14:15:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- margin of error vs human value -:- Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 18:07:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Scott T. -:- Them's fightin' wurds... -:- Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 19:09:28 (GMT)
__ Marianne -:- OT - Thanks -:- Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 02:50:23 (GMT)
__ __ Rick -:- OT - Thanks -:- Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 03:03:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ Scott T. -:- OT - Thanks -:- Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 11:33:57 (GMT)
__ Luking Poster -:- BLISTERING BALLOT BOXES!!! NT -:- Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 01:38:07 (GMT)
__ __ Rick -:- OT - Florida election law/Chiropractor -:- Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 02:10:22 (GMT)

chr -:- What does it take for a premie to leave Maharaji? -:- Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 00:29:49 (GMT)
__ Courage -:- and a strong need for real freedom (nt) -:- Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 09:17:16 (GMT)
__ gwbush -:- What does it take for a premie to leave Maharaji? -:- Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 09:29:28 (GMT)
__ frodo -:- What does it take for a premie to leave Maharaji? -:- Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 06:03:04 (GMT)
__ __ AJW -:- Asking for money -:- Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 15:00:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ cq -:- Shouldn't that read 'begging' for money? (nt) -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 20:57:02 (GMT)
__ __ amy -:- What does it take for a premie to leave Maharaji? -:- Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 09:32:20 (GMT)
__ __ chr -:- Are you serious? -:- Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 07:47:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ Gandalf -:- Are you stupid? -:- Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 11:48:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Nigel -:- It sounds like you might be. -:- Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 21:31:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Gandalf -:- Too clever by Half!! -:- Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 00:56:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Niggle -:- I wasn't talking to Frodo, I was talking to you... -:- Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 13:02:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Too clever by Half!! -:- Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 03:41:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- Too clever by Half!! -:- Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 13:47:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- The harder they come, the harder they fall ... -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 03:27:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- The harder they come, the harder they fall ... -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 20:26:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Erikson and covert-aggression -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 05:15:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Frodo -:- Too clever by Half!! -:- Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 18:43:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Not too clever by Half!! -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 00:42:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Sorry^^^^^ -:- [typo corrected by FA] -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 00:45:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- I wasn't talking to you, I was talking to Stonor.. -:- Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 18:58:01 (GMT)
__ Selene -:- what made me leave -:- Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 01:18:21 (GMT)
__ __ Gregg -:- Very interesting question, Selene -:- Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 00:39:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ Selene -:- in the west these days -:- Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 01:38:32 (GMT)
__ __ ellen -:- what made me leave -:- Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 08:37:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ Selene -:- the old songs and the endless videos -:- Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 02:45:26 (GMT)
__ __ sam -:- what made me leave -:- Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 05:27:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ Selene -:- agree with you about premies sam -:- Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 21:10:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Disculta -:- Why I left -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 00:19:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Gail -:- Thank goodness for this site--I left because of it -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 04:37:20 (GMT)

Wish -:- Propagation in poor countries, publicity stunt -:- Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 00:10:47 (GMT)
__ la-ex -:- seems similar to jim and tammy's thing... -:- Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 05:08:12 (GMT)

Selene -:- very OT but I gotta say it -:- Sat, Nov 11, 2000 at 20:17:55 (GMT)
__ Rick -:- very OT but I gotta say it -:- Sat, Nov 11, 2000 at 21:50:32 (GMT)
__ __ Selene -:- I thought of that -:- Sat, Nov 11, 2000 at 23:25:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ Rick -:- I thought of that -:- Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 00:35:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Selene -:- hi again, more OT information (sorry everyone) -:- Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 01:13:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Lurking Poster -:- hi again, more OT information (sorry everyone) -:- Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 01:36:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- thank you so much! -:- Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 01:43:50 (GMT)

Cynthia -:- To: Katie -:- Sat, Nov 11, 2000 at 19:37:00 (GMT)
__ Brian -:- Re: your Journeys entry -:- Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 03:44:25 (GMT)
__ __ Cynthia -:- To Brian...I got it, thanks NT -:- Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 18:09:00 (GMT)

The Dolphin -:- Maharaji's failure -:- Sat, Nov 11, 2000 at 16:13:44 (GMT)

Katie -:- to Blue Max -:- Sat, Nov 11, 2000 at 15:38:42 (GMT)

cq -:- Stop that buck! -:- Sat, Nov 11, 2000 at 15:33:51 (GMT)
__ janet -:- for starters.. you might send her... -:- Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 08:36:37 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- for starters.. you might send her... -:- Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 19:52:10 (GMT)
__ Selene -:- so EV USA is a church AND a charity? -:- Sat, Nov 11, 2000 at 17:11:00 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- so EV USA is a church AND a charity? -:- Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 18:48:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ Selene -:- now that I think about it -:- Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 19:15:02 (GMT)
__ __ SB -:- WHAT A SCAM!! (ot) -:- Sat, Nov 11, 2000 at 17:42:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ Selene -:- glad you are having fun s -:- Sat, Nov 11, 2000 at 17:51:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ SB -:- Great! -:- Sat, Nov 11, 2000 at 18:26:00 (GMT)

Loaf -:- Hamster dance 2 -:- Sat, Nov 11, 2000 at 11:13:48 (GMT)
__ Curious George -:- Hamster dance 2 -:- Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 22:54:56 (GMT)
__ __ Direct -:- LIVE link to: Hamster dance 2 -:- Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 23:19:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ Nigel -:- But who let those chipmunks in? (nt) -:- Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 16:38:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ 'Direct' -:- OK, I bit, but I didn't see any chipmunks. (nt) -:- Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 16:58:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- The ones marching right to left... -:- Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 18:33:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ 'Direct' -:- The ones marching right to left... -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 03:37:47 (GMT)
__ Cynthia -:- How did the name 'hamster' come about? -:- Sat, Nov 11, 2000 at 18:09:18 (GMT)
__ __ Nigel -:- How did the name 'hamster' come about? -:- Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 21:40:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ ham -:- You forgot about the cannibalism Nige -:- Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 09:44:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Salam -:- Know your enemy -:- Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 11:39:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Thanks for the background.... -:- Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 16:23:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Susan -:- dancing hamster -:- Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 19:51:01 (GMT)

Salam -:- A Question for all of you Premie Buffs -:- Sat, Nov 11, 2000 at 08:53:28 (GMT)
__ janet -:- brian set up a paypal account if you do -:- Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 08:42:26 (GMT)

Jim -:- Taking a break for a while -:- Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 19:35:37 (GMT)
__ SB -:- Taking a break for a while -:- Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 02:21:28 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- Too right he'll be missed.Next time aim better(nt) -:- Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 20:44:24 (GMT)
__ DV -:- The time solution for me will be bandwidth. -:- Sat, Nov 11, 2000 at 15:49:00 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- Taking a break for a while -:- Sat, Nov 11, 2000 at 13:10:55 (GMT)
__ Erica -:- Jeeez ..... -:- Sat, Nov 11, 2000 at 01:14:02 (GMT)
__ __ Nigel -:- Jeeez ..... -:- Sat, Nov 11, 2000 at 01:59:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ Salam -:- Me too, I am going. -:- Sat, Nov 11, 2000 at 02:37:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Nigel -:- I ain't goin nowhere... -:- Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 22:20:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ sb -:- Me too, I am going. -:- Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 02:13:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- Me too, I am going. -:- Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 05:38:50 (GMT)
__ Marianne -:- don't worry -:- Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 23:42:25 (GMT)
__ __ JohnT -:- ...Jim, we'll save the last premie for you! -nt- -:- Sat, Nov 11, 2000 at 08:44:47 (GMT)
__ Nigel -:- Bon voyage - but don't miss the endgame...(nt) -:- Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 22:34:50 (GMT)
__ Salam -:- bull...........................................nt -:- Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 22:09:56 (GMT)
__ Roger eDrek -:- Better to quit while you are ahead or be blocked -:- Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 20:30:55 (GMT)
__ TD -:- But what about the American election? (joke - nt) -:- Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 20:18:20 (GMT)
__ Steve Quint -:- I Too Am Feeling The Same Way -:- Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 20:03:26 (GMT)
__ __ SB -:- Write -:- Sat, Nov 11, 2000 at 18:23:23 (GMT)
__ __ janet -:- great!Brian gets a bigger server and u all quit -:- Sat, Nov 11, 2000 at 06:43:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ SB -:- great!Brian gets a bigger server and u all quit -:- Sat, Nov 11, 2000 at 17:34:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- oh my god! Janet is right. We've... -:- Sat, Nov 11, 2000 at 06:54:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ DULL -:- Is not easy being green....NT -:- Sat, Nov 11, 2000 at 17:06:08 (GMT)
__ __ Salam -:- How about -:- Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 21:58:13 (GMT)
__ Jerry -:- You need an alternative -:- Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 19:55:23 (GMT)
__ __ Selene -:- so true -:- Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 21:28:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jerry -:- so true -:- Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 21:47:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Selene -:- thanks for responding :) - Terribly Way Off Topic -:- Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 22:14:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- You're welcome -:- Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 22:23:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Salam -:- so true -:- Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 22:13:22 (GMT)
__ Susan -:- that is smart -:- Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 19:39:35 (GMT)
__ __ gentle ben -:- ah come on jimbo....whose ass am i gonna kick -:- Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 23:16:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ Cynthia -:- I'll miss you...be well..a rest is good...(nt) -:- Sat, Nov 11, 2000 at 00:04:26 (GMT)

Susan -:- Happy Birthday Cynthia!!!! -:- Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 18:45:34 (GMT)
__ a0aji -:- Happy [bandwith restriction applied] -nt- -:- Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 00:35:50 (GMT)
__ Katie -:- Happy Birthday Cynthia!!!! -:- Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 18:52:51 (GMT)
__ __ Bin Liner -:- Happy Birthday Cynthia!!!! -:- Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 23:27:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ Marianne -:- Happy Birthday Cynthia!!!! -:- Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 23:43:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Monmlt -:- Happy Birthday Cynthia! And Many More nt -:- Sat, Nov 11, 2000 at 14:54:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ cq -:- Yo! Scorpio! Keep yer stinger up! nt -:- Sat, Nov 11, 2000 at 15:49:39 (GMT)


Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 14:03:49 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: When is the next Ex-premie leaders meeting?
Message:
This is the funniest think I have read in a while.

http://www.ex-premie.org/best/bof05152000161409.htm

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Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 18:45:53 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Announcement: EPO Leaders Meeting Info Here
Message:
I think it's urgent to have another meeting very soon. As Chief of Security, EPO, I promise complete protection. I have 12 dozen eggs, pea-shooters, long range water pistols, sling-shots, dark glasses, black clothes. I will make arrangements for our private plane to transport all meeting participants, and will secure the meeting site.

My staff is ready to go. Forum Leader please contact me through usual channels to discuss logistics.

Propagation is going throught the roof in US and Europe. We act now!!!

On High Alert,

Cynthia
Chief of Security, Ex-Premie.Org
International EV Investigative Unit, US Branch
Code Name: Scorpio-1

Scorpio-1 is my minimum security name. Those who have high security clearance know how to contact me.

UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD THIS BE DISCUSSED ON THE FORUM!!

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Date: Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 01:19:46 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave (Secret Agent)
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Announcement: EPO Leaders Meeting Info Here
Message:
Why can't we discuss the master plan to plant the Maharaji clone in the Malibu residence? Now we've got it to speak in that squeaky, slurred voice, nobody will know the difference.
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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 20:53:39 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Sir Dave (Secret Agent)
Subject: Good work agent Dave ...
Message:
... keep them thinking the clone hasn't already been planted, and you could be on to a promotion.

Message ends.

(and don't forget to eat the monitor you read this on)

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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 01:06:03 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Good work agent Dave ...
Message:
Any luck getting those plastic incontinence pants? We'll need them for phase 3.
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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 18:09:42 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: What waist size is the maha? (nt)
Message:
asdf
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Date: Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 15:22:41 (GMT)
From: Cynthia - Scorpio-1
Email: None
To: Sir Dave (Secret Agent)
Subject: Maharaji Clone Still Cannot Walk With the Crown...
Message:
Until said clone can walk with the crown we must discuss how to place him into the palace.

This and other topics for meeting are open for discussions here and all suggestions for teaching clone to walk with crown are welcome.

My last security report revealed that when clone walked with crown he staggered as if drunk. We all know what that means.

Sir Dave (Secret Agent) please supply all details on clone training. The is part of the master plan.

Over
Cynthia - Scorpio-1

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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 00:45:13 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave (Secret Agent)
Email: None
To: Cynthia - Scorpio-1
Subject: That's the beauty of it
Message:
As you know, that's double bluff. The secret clone cannot walk with the crown because he isn't the clone. Get it!

Neither can he string a coherant sentence together although he can quote the full works of Kabir, wrongly and full of mistakes. When cornered, the clone will lapse into the Krishna and Arjuna battlefield story from the Bhaghavad Gita. And when under severe pressure, the clone resorts to screaming obscenities at people and telling them they shouldn't look at him.

It's perfect.

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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 21:02:46 (GMT)
From: Cynthia - Scorpio-1
Email: None
To: Sir Dave (Secret Agent)
Subject: Very Good, Sir Dave (Secret Agent)..well said...
Message:
After checking with EPAF (Ex-Premies Around Forum) it is absolutely okay to discuss everything here, the clone, the crown, the plans to overthrow the king.

I've been in deep covers (got a cold) so let it rip!

Excellent work, Sir Dave, et al.

Thank you,
Cynthia, (sniffling, coughing, with a runny nose)


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Date: Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 20:42:01 (GMT)
From: Secret Agent Man (S.A.M.)
Email: None
To: Cynthia - Scorpio-1
Subject: Maharaji Clown Still Cannot Walk With the Crown...
Message:
Yes! Bring on the clown!
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Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 22:09:54 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: I think you're going to need more eggs
Message:
What type of eggs are they? I like the free range ones, they seem to splash better than the ordinary one. Is this an issue on the agenda? Maybe we should have an egg fund raising? I know where to get eggs at wholesale prices.

What about Australia? Do we get a lift or do we paddle to the meeting? Questions questions and more questions.

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Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 23:26:45 (GMT)
From: Cynthia a/k/a Scorpio-1
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Meeting of Ex-Premie Leaders - More Information
Message:
As Chief of Security I can't answer questions about location. One thing I am working on, however, is procuring a yacht in order to make a stopover at the Cayman Islands. I can't disclose the the purpose of that stopover. All costs for travel will be charged to EPO's travel expense account. Don't be concerned about fund raising....

Do YOU know anyone with a yacht?

Once that procurement is complete we will proceed with airlifting all attendees to the secret meeting location. Details to come later.

Don't be concerned about the eggs. We change that to paint balloons if security is breached.

Agenda items may be submitted. Main topic is infiltration of event sites and mass leaflet dropping.

Over

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Date: Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 05:59:30 (GMT)
From: Lurking Luitenant
Email: None
To: Cynthia a/k/a Scorpio-1
Subject: Ostplay Uingsay ngelishay!!! OOLSFAY!!!!!! NT
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 12:52:42 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Lurking Luitenant
Subject: I thought of that too................nt
Message:
bummer
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Date: Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 20:39:16 (GMT)
From: urclinglay osterpay
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: ....ammmday chamaturesay..taynay
Message:
urkeytay
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Date: Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 23:05:42 (GMT)
From: Cynthia - Scorpio-1
Email: None
To: urclinglay osterpay
Subject: onay igpay atinlay eenednay
Message:
As Security Chief of EPO, you all have security clearance to speak plain English.

I have procured listening and sensing devices which will protect our meeting site. Now get serious and submit some agenda items!!

So far:

1) Maharaji clone's ability to wear crown, and training progress;
2) Placing clone in said palace;
3) What to do with the original M?;
4) Miscellaneous concerns regarding master plan; and
5) Status of new aircraft.

The Forum leaders need your agenda items. I only do security.

Once all agenda items are submitted, (and we don't care if the goomraji knows the agenda items), we will discuss them at our meeting site, which I promised will be uncompromised.

Over
Cynthia, a/k/a Scorpio-1

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Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 09:58:33 (GMT)
From: The Accountant
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: debits/credits
Message:
recount
o'yeah...
let's recount the votes..
why not..
recount in every state..
every city
every town
make sure each and every vote is accountable.
good thought...
don't u see ?
that's what u guys are doing....
ya'll is recounting...
so...may I suggest..
that you do your recount...
and get on with preserving the forests...
what's it called..
photosynthesis or something/sumthing.duh
remember one thing
recount what you want/whatever.
butt neither democratic candidate or republican
ani't no warren christopher/beatty
and u is in for a whippin'
bush rules to start the millenium
let's face it...
beer makes you piss
or 'pee' if your a lady
master makes you see god
who won the election ?
2am oregon time
i prophet bush.....and he phucks things up
then again...i like sheep
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Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 12:24:18 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: The Accountant
Subject: Start making sense.
Message:
You've been been up too long. Time for bed.
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Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 09:27:54 (GMT)
From: algore
Email: None
To: bush
Subject: w/o jim...this room is like black and white
Message:
and red all over
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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 20:55:05 (GMT)
From: Period Penguin
Email: None
To: algore
Subject: you talkin' to me? (nt)
Message:
gore blimey
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Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 06:54:30 (GMT)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: OT - recount West Palm Beach
Message:
The preliminary recount in West Palm Beach has resulted 33 additional votes for Gore and 14 for Bush. It hasn't been determined if this is sufficient to warrant recounting the entire county. We shall see.
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Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 07:31:30 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Rick
Subject: It's gotten out of hand
Message:
If they have the recount throughout Palm Beach, there's a real chance that Gore will win the election. However, if the voting machines failed to read ballots in Democratic communities, I'm almost certain that they, in similar proportions, failed to read them in Republican dominated communities as well. I'm certain the Republicans are going to bring this to light. Unfortunately, for them, I don't think they met the deadline for demanding a manual recount in those areas. So, is this what it's going to boil down to, because the Democrats were faster to take advantage of their rights in demanding a recount, they're going to win the election, whereas because the Republicans weren't fast enough, they're going to lose?

Oy vey! This is fucked up!

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Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 12:48:39 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: It's in hand, but barely.
Message:
Jerry:

Rs are congenitally disadvantaged in this sort of fight, very much as they are disadvantaged in terms of 'get out the vote' organization. They are advantaged in terms of money, power, targeted mailing, etc. So overall it approximately balances out. If I were the Republicans I would at least move for a recount in those 14 counties that are not yet certified if any had an R majority, to at least cut their losses. If I were the Gore campaign advisor I'd suggest that Gore himself offer to re-open all FL counties to manual vote counting, provided the Bush campaign allows the vote obviously miscast for Buchanan to be statistically adjusted according to some standard formula.

(This last item might be negotiated, but I suspect they could simply go to Gary King at Harvard to get the model for the statistical adjustment since he is the premier polysci person in that area.)

The 19,000 double-cast ballots are out of the mix, since there is really no fair way to do a statistical readjustment of those, because some of those people may have voted twice. (Actually, there might be a way to correct this, but I'd offer to drop those anyway in the spirit of goodwill.)

Again, I don't even know whether the law would allow that sort of accommodation, but if so it would probably be the best way to preserve the presidency and the integrity of the voting process.

One technical point that came out in the dialogue about whether to have a manual recount for the entire Palm Beach County 'no vote' ballots. Some people made the mistaken point that these ballots were not read because of voter error rather than machine error and should therefore not be subject to being counted. That is simply not true. The ballot instructions specifically allow for the 'hanging chad' possibility, which is not really voter error *or* machine error, but merely a matter of the technical specification of the punch card. I foresee a needless argument about this, and wanted to forestall it. Again, the ballot instructions inform voters that sometimes the chad will not completely drop off, but that they have voted and their vote still counts (or words to that effect). The *only* way to determine whether this has happened is to have a *manual* recount, so the voter instructions clearly foresee this possibility.

--Scott

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Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 15:25:24 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: Surely it would be better in future
Message:
to scrap this hole punching ballot. It's supposed to be more accurate, I presume but if the paper is still left hanging in the hole after it's punched and counts as a 'no vote', the system is worthless.

Computers can read crosses penciled into boxes and that's the method we use over here. There have been recounts, of course, in close elections but the ensuing new result has never been dramatically different from the original one.

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Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 15:54:50 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Surely it would be better in future
Message:
David:

The punch card machine is a second generation technology, after the somewhat more problematic voting machine. In my precinct we fill in a broken arrow with some sort of magnetic ink, which is pretty reliable although not foolproof. This is a third generation technology. There's a fourth generation technology that just has people touch a screen with their finger, and then verify the result with a 'this is your final answer' sort of qualification. But, there will undoubtedly be some issue with that, because there are some problems with the electronics. Nothing is foolproof. Perhaps we could have some sort of measure where if the vote margin is not greater than the statistical margin of error we just flip a coin. In other words, we institutionalize the recognition that what we *really have* is a tie.

--Scott

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Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 06:59:15 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Rick
Subject: OT - recount West Palm Beach
Message:
they had BETTER hold a re-election, not just a recount! according to one report, 19,000 ballots were tossed out in palm beach county because they were double punched . I wrote letters today to the secretary of state aand the elections commissioner, on the website by Working Assets, appealng to both of them to re-hold the voting for anyone who double punched their tickets in confusion.
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Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 13:05:56 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: OT - recount West Palm Beach
Message:
Janet:

As some of the election volunteers have testified, some of those double-vote ballots are there because those people requested another ballot having spoiled the first one. People can ask for up to three different ballots, so it's theoretically possible that some of these people will have voted four times. Furthermore, these is no way to determine exactly who these 19,000 people were. There are further problems with re-votes whether county or state-wide, so I agree with Joe that this is really not an option, although something about it does seem appealing. I mean, it's pretty clear that if they re-voted then Gore would pick up many of those Nader voters. I argue that those people voted for Nader out of some misplaced or unrealistic fantasy, and should have voted for Gore in the first place had they not *wanted* Gore to lose, but the fact that they were unrealistic is part of *their* problem, and should not now become the country's problem.

So, I think a re-vote is largely, if not entirely, out of the question. A statistical readjustment might be done, provided all parties were in agreement about the statistical model, but I'm not holding my breath waiting for that to happen. A judge could order a statistical readjustment, but I don't think that would be good for the country unless both candidates ratified the statistical model... and that ain't gonna happen. Unless they agree beforehand, as above, then there'll always be grousing.

--Scott

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Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 13:20:31 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: OT - one more possibility
Message:
Janet, et al.

One more possibility would be to have some sort of representative vote that were engineered to reflect the original conditions. For instance, we can probably calculate the actual percentage of those 19,000 ballot voters who voted only once because we have the total count of eligible voters who actually voted. Say the disparity is 1000, so we choose 18,000 people at random from the rolls of those who actually voted and let them recast their ballots. There's still the problem that the third party voters would change their vote, but there might be a way to exclude those using a similar methodology. Just trying to expand the envelope here.

--Scott

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Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 09:47:48 (GMT)
From: Harry Schwartz
Email: yiddish@yahoo.com
To: janet keno
Subject: - count East Palm Beach
Message:
this is great ya c ?
now, i can get ya with the political stuff.
bush wins
country goes to pot
albert einstein invents electricity.
it's like tattoe saying,
'the plane,,the plane.>'
fantasy island.
dumb ass's...
the plane...yeah the plane god damn't
damn the plane..
what about heart...
george bush / al gore...
full unemployment
no war....how can 'one' rule the party over....
aaahhhh.....the darkness can....
let's party like it's 2000.......
yay......the wicked witch is dead..
yaaaaaay
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Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 01:35:46 (GMT)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: OT - election manual recount
Message:
In the manual recount in Palm Beach, one half of one precinct's ballots gave Gore a net gain of 11.
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Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 03:32:26 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Rick
Subject: This is getting crazy
Message:
They're not even counting the ballots punched by the voters. They're examining IBM cards that interpret those ballots. They've been doing this for 8 hours, now. Can you imagine, sitting holding IBM cards up to the light to make sure they were punched correctly? I'm glad it's not me.

When's this going to end? I hear that by Florida law, you have until 72 hours after the final tally to do this. The Republicans are up in arms about this, and are seeking a court injunction to stop it, but so far, it looks like the Democrats are operating within their rights, but they still haven't stated that they will concede next Friday if, after the oversees ballots are counted, Bush still leads.

I think the longer this plays out, the more people are going to get pissed off, not because anyone's operating outside of the law, but because it just looks so much like a fucking circus, something no presidential election should look like, especially when the eyes of the world are upon us.

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Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 13:46:27 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Chad, and other hanging issues.
Message:
Jerry:

Look, this is a close vote... so every vote is important. I think the Republicans miscalculated and have left themselves at a disadvantage re the 72 hour deadline. Since the real issue now is whether anyone can govern then both candidates ought to get off their positions and begin to negotiate some sort of solution that looks fair to the public, and can be expedited quickly. The issue of whether hand counting is accurate is a non-issue. In Palm Beach they've come up with a standard for counting that's consistent with the ballot instructions provided to voters *before* they voted, and they can simply use that same standard for other manual recounts. Again, both campaigns should now get off their high horses and negotiate something that will make the winner of this election appear the legitimate winner to the voters. If that involves a manual count of other districts under contention, ignoring the 72 hour cutoff, then sobeit. The Republican were dumb to miss that opportunity, but as I have said many many times before, this is *not* a sporting event. There is a different standard of fairness than 'rules are rules.'

--Scott

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Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 11:56:31 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Nothing unusual here
Message:
The 'eyes of the world' expect the American Presidential Election to be a circus. Both election campaigns are nothing but a circus in most peoples' eyes. This circus is just lasting longer than usual and it gives the TV and radio commentators something to talk about.

The last I heard this morning was that Gore will win Florida easily after all the ballots are counted manually. Which brings into question the validity of any American election, if they can't even count the ballots properly.

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Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 13:52:46 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Nothing unusual here
Message:
David:

The last I heard this morning was that Gore will win Florida easily after all the ballots are counted manually. Which brings into question the validity of any American election, if they can't even count the ballots properly.

It's not an issue except in close elections, which is why there are provisions for manual counts. I suspect that the technology you use presents similar problems, that only surface in close elections. There are newer technologies that would eliminate these issues, but they cost money. Obviously there'll be a reassessment about the value of such technologies, and there ought to be some sort of federal contribution to help states update their voting machinery. Maybe Hillary can introduce that legislation, instead of shooting off her mouth about abolishing the electoral college, which is completely unrealistic.

--Scott

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Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 06:32:20 (GMT)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: This is getting crazy
Message:
Actually the election officials are looking for loose chads. Chads are attached at four points and are supposed to fall out when a voter punches the ballots, but sometimes they only come loose at one, two, or three points, and just hang there. These are considered eligible votes.

A pregnant chad is one which only shows an indentation but has been severed at any one of the connecting points. Pregnant chads aren't considered valid votes.

The ballots they're counting are those that the machine couldn't register a vote for president. So they're aren't recounting all the ballots, just those that didn't register in the machine.

When you get down to a 300 vote margin in an election with 100,000,000 people, it really is splitting hairs to say anyone won. The margin of error is much greater than 300 votes so there really isn't any way to determine who won.

You're right that it's like a circus, but on the other hand, I can see why neither Gore nor Bush are giving an inch. I think you're right that some people want to get this over with, despite who wins, but many people won't be happy until their guy wins or until they think their guy lost fair and square.

But that just isn't possible at this point. Whoever loses is going to get cheated because the winner won't have enough votes to cover the margin of error.

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Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 15:07:43 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Rick
Subject: Very well stated. Thanks. (nt)
Message:
tsdis
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Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 06:56:06 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Rick
Subject: margin of error vs human value
Message:
when you talk about impersonal mathmatics. its fine to speak in terms of margins of error. but when every single vote represents the life of a human being who went through untold hours of thought and consideration to arrive at a historic choice, margins of error have to step aside and concede the day to the value of each human being. those votes arent abstracts. they are people. not a one of them is dispensible.
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Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 16:28:58 (GMT)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: margin of error vs human value
Message:
Hi Janet,
I don't think you understood my post because I don't believe anyone's vote doesn't matter. What I'm saying is that there's obvious evidence that the counting process produces errors. Some people's votes aren't counted despite the fact they voted.

If someone wins the election by 300 votes but it's clear that more than 600 ballots weren't counted, you can't reasonably declare a winner.

If a candidate wins by a landslide, let's say they have a million votes more than the other candidate, but ten thousand votes weren't counted, it doesn't affect the outcome of the election.

I'm not saying it isn't important for every vote to be counted, and I'm not discounting the humanness of caring enough to vote. What I am saying is that in the case of this election, there isn't any way to fairly determine a loser.

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Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 13:56:21 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: margin of error vs human value
Message:
Janet:

Well put, but there are also people who cast their ballots that don't even know who is running. Our voting system makes there two votes equal, so the idealism is not built into the system. In part it works or doesn't work because of the people themselves.

--Scott

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Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 13:43:11 (GMT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: be
Subject: margin of error vs human value
Message:
You haven't avoided the problem.

The problem is counting each vote of your indispensible people. Think about how the counting is actually done. I challenge you to do an experiment: count out one thousand pennies.

Just a thousand of them.

Each person who has to do the actual counting is also a human being! That kind of counting is tedious. It is subject to human error, at a measurable rate.

The fact is, the margin of error is the only tool left, to measure outcomes of an election from such a vast electorate. There is no one person who has (or ever will) faithfully and accurately count more than a given number of ballots in a given election -- and there are many counters (electronic, mechanical, and human) that will definitely count wrong -- there are statistical methods that can be used to measure the rate of error, which actually improves our best guess at what the total would have reached, if the ballots had been counted by a single, perfect Teller.

The single perfect Teller is an abstraction: no real person like that exists, or ever will in a population base this large.

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Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 14:15:23 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: a0aji
Subject: margin of error vs human value
Message:
a0aji:

I assume we are discussing the margin of error in relation to the closeness of an election. Assuming a margin of error rate of 0.5%, for example, then any election that is closer than 0.5% requires a machine recount, which will reduce, but not eliminate the error. Then, a manual recount can be introduced to further reduce the margin of error.

I totally disagree with Baker that manual means less accurate. Whether it's accurate or not depends on the methodology, checks and balances, bias, etc. If all the ballots were recounted manually then that might introduce more uncertainty, but my understanding is that they are only doing a manual recount of ballots that did not register on the machines, or those that are called the 'undervote.' I think the media is not reporting this correctly. They are all too human, I'm afraid... and to some extent they're contributing to the problem by reporting inaccurately and therefore feeding misconceptions. I'd give them about a B at this point.

--Scott

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Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 18:07:16 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: margin of error vs human value
Message:
The problem is that they are going to the lengths they are in only one county, a Democratic one, throughout the entire country. There's reports of another county in Florida, a Republican one, that had 22,000 votes disallowed. I've also heard that in the 1996 presidential election, there were 100,000 votes total disqualified, in Florida alone. But nobody took any notice because it wouldn't have affected the outcome.

So, with all this human error going on all over the place, how is it fair that you try to correct it in a county that is overwhelmingly Democrat, where the correction most certainly is going to benefit the Democrats?

I'm sorry, Scott, I think this is bullshit.

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Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 19:09:28 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Them's fightin' wurds...
Message:
Jerry:

Just to convince you of how monumentally dumb the Bush team actually is, I just heard an exchange on CNN with Wolfe Blitzer and the legal advisors for Gore and Bush in which the Gore advisor made precisely the point you just made. In effect he was making an observation that amounted to an offer to manually count the undervote in the whole state. The offer went right over the Bush lawyer's head, and he continued to act as though they were talking about only 4 counties. I could not believe the guy was so dumb. My jaw dropped. The Gore lawyer didn't bring it up again, probably thinking that he might need to explain things privately to this guy, and didn't want to embarrass him on national TV. But the basic problem is that even if they manually counted all of the undervote in the state, including those counties that went predominantly for Bush, then Gore would almost certainly win. So, to my mind, Gore will have to offer something else. Perhaps he can offer to let George W. actually make the offer publicly so that George can appear to be magnanimous rather than Gore. Failing that, if it's turned down, Gore should appear in person and make the offer on national TV, and basically sew this thing up. Someone on the Gore staff must be seeing this possibility now.

--Scott

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Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 02:50:23 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Rick
Subject: OT - Thanks
Message:
Rick: Thanks for posting this information. I am so sick at heart that it is hard for me to read about what is going on. One of my big brothers lives here now, and lived in South Florida for 25 years. He's on top of all of this too and even attended an anti Bush rally in downtown SF today. He made a poster with Bush, looking like Pinocchio (?), with the White House on top and Disneyworld/Fantasyland down on the bottom. And yes, he's an ex premie!

My heart is so heavy about the whole thing, but this hand ballot stuff gives me some hope.

Marianne

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Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 03:03:31 (GMT)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: OT - Thanks
Message:
Good on your brother, Marianne. This ain't over yet. I've been following it for most of today and there's just no way to tell how this is going to go.

Baker filed an injunction to stop the hand count but it's unlikely it will succeed.

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Date: Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 11:33:57 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Rick
Subject: OT - Thanks
Message:
Rick:

I've heard some expert opinion that if the suit is appealed to the Supreme Court they might decide that selective manual are illegitimate and either trow them out, or demand a manual count of the whole state. They could also establish a counting protocol. In spite of the fact that Bush has, himself, signed a law that manual counts are preferable, even in 14 districts in Texas that use puch cards, and he has already benefitted from a manual recount in Florida, he claims they are inaccurate and 'cause mischief.' The guy is totally preposterous. And didn't I say he'd claim he was 'force' to do what he did. They'll use the same excuse if they draw out the process by demanding recounts in other states. I really wish there were some way to get rid of both of these pigmys, but the fact is that we're probably stuck with both of them for four to eight years, due to the closeness of the race.

--Scott

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Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 01:38:07 (GMT)
From: Luking Poster
Email: None
To: Rick
Subject: BLISTERING BALLOT BOXES!!! NT
Message:
NT
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Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 02:10:22 (GMT)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: OT - Florida election law/Chiropractor
Message:
A Chiropractor in Palm Beach County is suing because he claims the ballot was misleading and caused him to vote for the wrong candidate. In an interview on CNN he claimed that Florida election law requires the ballot to list the Republican and Democratic candidates as first and second, the first being whichever party won the gubernatorial election.

In fact, Pat Buchanan is listed as second. Small point perhaps, but it brings up some important questions.

In addition, the Chiropractor had with him an instructional document published by the election board for this election, that specified a vote is to be cast to the right of the candidates name.

Notwithstanding the fact that a member of the Democratic Party approved the ballot and the document, there's no question there's a problem.

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Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 00:29:49 (GMT)
From: chr
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: What does it take for a premie to leave Maharaji?
Message:
It was interseting reading Michael Dettmer's recent posts about aspects of Maharaji's behaviour. What I found disturbing is that I had been aware of most of them while I was a practising premie, and they were not the reasons for me leaving.

I had seen Maharaji drunk to the point where he could barely stand or walk, I had seen him verbally abuse others, I knew about the dope smoking, and I was very aware of an overextravagant, whim filled lifestyle.

When I was called to Miami a little while before Holi in 1979, another person in my ashram was called down as well. We did the same things- some residence security, security on M's warehouses and various other things to do with deca, some security with Raja ji etc. He left after about 10 months, saying that Maharaji was a dark, disturbed, self obsessed, lonely individual. I stayed on, still convinced that M was lord and master, and that he had his reasons or lila etc for what he did.
It wasn't until 10 years later that I began to consciously move away from M and Knowledge. And that was because I felt I wasn't moving anywhere - my life and experience of knowledge had become stagnant and I was painfully aware that following M had to a certain extent made me emotionally crippled. I still would not say anything against Maharaji and it wasn't until about 5 years later, when talking to two old premie friends, one of whom sometimes posts here, that I began to really process M's part in the whole debacle.
I guess thats what a cult does - it makes the belief in the leader so strong and subliminal that he becomes beyond reproach, he is above the worldly constraints that we mere mortals have to bear.

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Date: Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 09:17:16 (GMT)
From: Courage
Email: None
To: chr
Subject: and a strong need for real freedom (nt)
Message:
Lard sucks
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Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 09:29:28 (GMT)
From: gwbush
Email: None
To: chr
Subject: What does it take for a premie to leave Maharaji?
Message:
the wrong set of balls
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Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 06:03:04 (GMT)
From: frodo
Email: None
To: all
Subject: What does it take for a premie to leave Maharaji?
Message:
You know, I found that it doesn't take anything to leave Maharaji, you just stop meditating,listening, and leave.
Beer helps alot, you don't notice the pain at all.

And you know, I found out you can come and go as you please, nobody says a thing. Nobody really cares if you dedicate your life to maharaji or not. Nobody even knows if you give money to the cause or not. Everybody on this Web site is full of shit to think they were flem-flamed by Maharaji. You were flem-flamed by other premies most likely. I saw it happen all the time, when I was fully involved with the orginization. Premies would say anything for a free ride. But I blamed Maharaji. I don't know how many times I let some Premie take My vehicle because they said I would be doing Maharaji a service. And I am sure M did not have anything to do with the need for my vehicle, now that I look back at it. I hated M for it. I believe I was wrong. There are a lot of user's out there that call them selves premies. And they are premies. But they are user's non-the-less.

I can share details of those moments if you want. Starting from the ashram in my home town to deca and CRA. A lot of you probably never heard of CRA. It was a premie organization that seported M's mission. But some how the Manager of that organization somehow Profitted from it when Maharaji's Jet was complete. And that Manager had the Balls to call me and every one that worked for that organization to return tools that we happen to have at the time of the closing of the company. Which might I add were donated to begin with. And Maharaji had had nothing to do with the closing or the tools.

I hope this puts a bug in your ear.
think about it.
Listen to Maharaji. I have never heard him say anything to me that says I should give him all my money and my belongings. But I have heard premies say that. And they were the ones that were going to transfer my money and belongings over to Maharaji. Sure they were transfering it, right into their own pockets. aini

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Date: Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 15:00:40 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: frodo
Subject: Asking for money
Message:
Hi Frodo,

I've sat in a meeting with Maharaji, and about 50 hand-picked premies, where he's got up and asked us all for money for a project that he wanted doing in his house in Reigate.

Anth the hand picked.

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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 20:57:02 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Shouldn't that read 'begging' for money? (nt)
Message:
and what IS the Hindi for 'beggar'?
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Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 09:32:20 (GMT)
From: amy
Email: None
To: frodo
Subject: What does it take for a premie to leave Maharaji?
Message:
below the belt,in o'a so loving way
too kind
to kind
2 kind
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Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 07:47:18 (GMT)
From: chr
Email: None
To: frodo
Subject: Are you serious?
Message:
This is the sort of shit I heard for years - it's all the premies, never Maharaji. Everything was blamed on this honcho or that coordinator or someone else who didn't have the right understanding etc. Even now when I talk to premies - all the mistakes, the ashrams, the presentation of M as god, its all blamed on premies.
The rot started at the top with a self centred, delusional, aloof and uncaring master, who used many premies as disposable commodities.
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Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 11:48:40 (GMT)
From: Gandalf
Email: None
To: chr
Subject: Are you stupid?
Message:
You should think a little more clearly about what the little Hobbit is telling you. Who do you think was the 'manager'. Truth is a lot less exciting than manufactured self serving fiction hey Michael??
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Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 21:31:31 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Gandalf
Subject: It sounds like you might be.
Message:
Premie defences of M fall into two broad categories:

(1) The evidence against M is all bullshit (This one is Mili's preferred angle).

(2) The evidence may be solid, but such truths are irrelevant. (SHP cites the case of Noah as divine drunkard in M's defence.)

Surely you can't still be following the 'bullshit' line...

Why, oh premie shape-shifter, do you suppose that chr's and Michael Dettmers' close-hand observations of your inspirational leader tally so well? They're in different continents for one thing - left the movement ages apart, yet their supposedly 'manufactured' stories confirm each others' in every detail. Why might that be?

Sooner or later you'l have to make up your mind about what you're hearing. Make up your mind about what 'qualities' your leader possesses that warrants your time, money and attention. How much of a socially-inadequate asshole can you stand him to be before the very mention of his name becomes an embarrassment to you..?

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Date: Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 00:56:37 (GMT)
From: Gandalf
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Too clever by Half!!
Message:
So fucking predictable...Mr Negative Nigel!! Go back a step idiot and read what Frodo is telling you....
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Date: Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 13:02:34 (GMT)
From: Niggle
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Gandalf
Subject: I wasn't talking to Frodo, I was talking to you...
Message:
And there's no need to call me names, either. Something seems to have got you a bit rattled this fair morn. Why's that, I wonder?

The thing is, &*^*&^, you implied that both chr and Michael Dettmers were lying when you referred to 'manufactured' stories.

When you call someone a liar the onus is on you to identify the lies in question. Can you do that? - or are you all bluster and bravado?

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Date: Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 03:41:46 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Gandalf
Subject: Too clever by Half!!
Message:
Mr. Compassionate Nigel ... unwilling to condemn his fellow victims of psychological abuse an manipulation, no matter how high they climbed the ladder of 'service' to a self-indulgent megalomaniac. I pray that you recognize this in this lifetime.

A relatively impartial observer.

and I would greatly appreciate it if you stop abusing the honourable name of Gandalf in this way!

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Date: Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 13:47:35 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Stonor
Subject: Too clever by Half!!
Message:
Hi Stonor,

Hmm, don't know about the 'Mr Compassionate' ('passionate, maybe!)

I've a feeling our halfling fantasist may already be struggling with some uncomfortable truths about M, and venting on the forum is his way of reinforcing whatever psychological defences remain.

Makes you wonder how premies talk about this stuff among themselves - the anti-social drinking behaviour and abuse of premies, etc. They surely can't be proud to be associated with such a boorish oaf. But I suspect the worse M appears, the harder it gets to acknowledge the scale of their delusions about him.

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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 03:27:05 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: The harder they come, the harder they fall ...
Message:
(No, Nigel, that's not what I was talking about!)

I think it must be extremely difficult for some premies to admit they have been largely misguided after so many years of self-righteous self-satisfaction. I don't imagine they talk about it amongst themselves much at all, or anything at all, if CD's forum is anything to go by. Then again, what's to discuss once you have 'KNOWLEDGE' and m, or any other absolute 'truth', it seems that many are on automatic self-perpetuating-hypnosis. You just need to keep on the blissfully mindless infantile path, and encourage others to join you.

Have you read much Erik Erikson, Nigel? I just finished reading his 'psycho-analysis' of Ghandi (Ghandi's Truth). Some of it's a bit slow, but it's well worth the effort if you have a bit of time. Now there's a truly (super)human 'Master'. I'm planning to post a bit of it once I can't do anymore work outside ;-)

As for the compassion, I think you need a great deal of compassion to give so much of your time and energy to patiently try to talk to those you care about, but who seem to refuse to listen, or worse, do nothing but twist what you say and insult your efforts. I've noticed that you rarely lose your patience, and don't turn the process into a power/bullying trip. I'm convinced that in the long run, that's the best way to go. Otherwise you're just transferring the superiority you may have felt as a premie towards non-premies to feelings of superiority over those who are still premies, and continuing the cycle of abuse.

What I have also found surprising is how much aggressive hatred can come from some premies. Surely this must tell them that something is not right about the path they are following.

Anyways, I have nothing but respect for your, and many others' efforts here.

Stonor

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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 20:26:10 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: The harder they come, the harder they fall ...
Message:
Thanks for kind words, Stonor. And in spite of my objecting, I'll accept the 'compassionate' tag in the spirit it was offered (hmm, just as well you havn't heard me swearing about premies on the phone or gritting my teeth whilst posting here..!)

No, I haven't read any Erikson - the whole psychoanalytic area really isn't my scene. But I've a lot of time for Ghandi - at least his role in the independence struggle (though I think he was rather backward-looking in terms of long-term domestic ambitions).

You're right about premie aggression - often disguised in that polite but non-communicative passive-aggressive stance, or Deputy Dog's goofy grin. Makes me remember that 'Anger, Desires, Attachments... rob us of eternal life...' etc. What a load of hypocritical bull that was!

PS: Your efforts here are as worthy and worthwhile as anyone else's here Stonor. Every story brings a different angle probably each as valuable as any other, especially given the varieties of premie who are likely to be reading the site.

I think the forum is now bigger than all of us, in that we could all quit tomorrow, others will arrive and the discussion would still continue. And unstoppably so: like a natural after-effect of the cult that had to happen and will continue to happen until M's 'spiritual' empire has crumbled.

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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 05:15:44 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Erikson and covert-aggression
Message:
(though I think he was rather backward-looking in terms of long-term domestic ambitions).

You mean the spinning? He also encouraged on journal-writing - odd combination, isn't it?

Erikson puts Ghandi into a much larger framework and, at the same time, a more personally meaningful context . It's the first Erikson I've read apart from a few short things, but I've pulled out 'Dimensions of a New Identity', which I found a year or two ago, to read next.

Not that you asked for it, but I did a few searches, so I may as well post a couple. This one has:
reviews of his books

And this link gives a brief outline of his
life cycles. It starts off weird, but the info is good and there are more links below.

From my experience, Deputy Dog is definitely a covert-aggressive personality, along with a number of others. Have you read that page recently? It outlines the standard tactics so well. Here's one that seems relevant:

Playing the Servant Role -Covert-aggressives use this tactic to cloak their self-serving agendas in the guise of service to a more noble cause. It's a common tactic but difficult to recognize. By pretending to he working hard on someone else's behalf, covert-aggressives conceal their own ambition, desire for power, and quest for a position of dominance over others.

I guess they learned from a MASTER!

The information alone at EPO has probably stopped many 'would be premies' cold, without anyone ever knowing. Combined with such an active forum, the process to end m's magic carpet ride is definitely 'unstoppable'!

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Date: Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 18:43:46 (GMT)
From: Frodo
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Too clever by Half!!
Message:
If you thick my statment is basically my fantasy. Will then I guess my views are not valid. Now I don't think I claimed M has never asked for money. I just never heard him ask me, my ears have never heard it from Maharaji. And I will not dispute AJW statement claiming that AJW heard M ask for money. I am sure it probably happens. But I also recently heard M say 'don't do anything you don't feel comfortable doing'.
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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 00:42:25 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Frodo
Subject: Not too clever by Half!!
Message:
Frodo said

Now I don't think I claimed M has never asked for money. I just never heard him ask me, my ears have never heard it from Maharaji. And I will not dispute AJW statement claiming that AJW heard M ask for money. I am sure it probably happens. But I also recently heard M say 'don't do anything you don't feel comfortable doing'.

Frodo, Maharaji has always asked for money. Who do you think gives the orders in the cult? Get real. There are many rich premies, who, in exchange for getting to be a PAM, give a lot of
money.

Maharaji is notorious for making request through PAMs too. They tour the communities and tell darshan stories to the old true believers and they go 'aaaahhhhh' and start writing out checks.

EV's pamphlet gives all options: automatic checking account deduction, automatic credit card charges, or if a premie absolutely must, they can send a check in monthly, but they prefer the automated process.

Why must you apologize for Maharaji? He's a low life thief!

And believe me, Maharaji doesn't give a shit if you feel 'comfortable' or not.

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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 00:45:49 (GMT)
From: Sorry^^^^^
Email: None
To: Frodo
Subject: [typo corrected by FA]
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 18:58:01 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Frodo
Subject: I wasn't talking to you, I was talking to Stonor..
Message:
But since you're here, perhaps you could ask your bad-tempered friend 'gandalf' upon what grounds he accuses chr and Michael Dettmers of 'manufacturing' their claims about Maharaji?

These are eye-witness accounts. Are you an x-rated insider? Do you know better?

Tell us about it.

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Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 01:18:21 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: chr
Subject: what made me leave
Message:
was the behavior of the premies. It was what attracted me in the first place 2.5 decades ago. M was never my central point of the universe even though I sang Arti every night and kissed his toostsies on countless occasions.
A program of attraction they used to call it. Another word for it is peer pressure. or Cult. Was I so different I wonder?
Did others stay around solely because of M and leave because of M? Or was it because all our friends, our lifestyle and our way of looking at 'this' life were immersed in the cult?
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Date: Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 00:39:54 (GMT)
From: Gregg
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Very interesting question, Selene
Message:
This is a question that gets at what a cult really is. Being involved with a religious/spiritual group because of the social and emotional context rather than because of the theological content must certainly be part of the definition of a cult.

After buying the concept of a Guru and of spiritual magic and magical beings (esp. after reading Autobiography of a Yogi, by Yogananda), I was intellectually ripe for DLM seduction. However, the emotional richness of all those hugging (Earth-shoe wearing) premies was certainly what pushed me over the top.

BTW, given the absence of that satsangy feelgood ambience of the seventies, I am not sure what attracts people to the cult these days.

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Date: Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 01:38:32 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Gregg
Subject: in the west these days
Message:
Lots of premies are leftovers and hangers on
This being my non-scientific guess based on the last events I attended in 96 and 97.

I too had my first exposure to gurus via Yogananda. My mom's brother was very into him. On his death bed he told me I had a 'beautiful mind and spirit' and should seek out those who would develop these qualities.
And he left me with all his reel-to-reel tapes of Yogananda talking about the light.

So a few years later here comes the boy guru. I believed the guru part was destiny for me and I believed without a doubt that I was meant to follow M.
But he was so distant and hard to understand, I didn't like watching him on stage (especially dancing!!) or listening to him yell and all but I blamed myself.
I resented the long lines and endless homage to him.
And so the premies and their friendship became the most important thing.
And when they all started being even more mean to me and self centered, I quit.
This in no way lets M off the hook. There would have been no premies and no story if it wasn't for him!

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Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 08:37:54 (GMT)
From: ellen
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: what made me leave
Message:
was the ex-premie forum. oh, that last event in long beach (1996?) that I slept thru when I just couldn't force myself into the mindset necessary to 'get into it'. did i come here before then or after? all I remember is being happy to see old friends in long beach. i hadn't 'been around' for awhile. felt guilty and *just knew* m was god. so in long beach, all the old songs were sung and i thought 'shit--they've been sitting her listening to the same songs for the last 10 years? aarrgh!' turns out i managed to avoid some years in between when videos got big. i always liked premies--except for the asshole at the city of love and lite who wouldn't let me and my crazy husband in. too bongo for coll--that's when you know yer fucked!
this place rawks!
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Date: Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 02:45:26 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: ellen
Subject: the old songs and the endless videos
Message:
I'm with you there ellen. A big turn off. especially since I realized they had changed a lot of the song lyrics to be more palatable to the new non-cult image.
I Remember this 1997:
old way was:
I was just a little child
Maya made my mind run wild
then guru maharaji smiled and
nighttime turned to day

and the 1997 long beach version:
I was just a little child
This world had made my mind run wild
Then I saw your sweet smile
And nighttime turned to day

insidious. yuck!
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Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 05:27:42 (GMT)
From: sam
Email: -
To: Selene
Subject: what made me leave
Message:
i was never overly immersed in the cult although i always believed m was lord and master. i always put it down to being undisciplined and 'bad' but i'm glad now. it was also the premies who got me me in as they seemed to be experiencing so much and i also rationalised everything m did- dissenters just coldn't see clearly i thought. it was also prems who made me leave, as i re met a couple who had stayed so devoted for so long and they just seemed to have no life left. full of guilt if they enjoyed the world and becoming increasingly unable to enjoy people and every day life. i guess people left for all different reasons
.
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Date: Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 21:10:23 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: sam
Subject: agree with you about premies sam
Message:
Every time I went to a video or event toward the end I was struck hard by how out of touch many people were. They seemed able to turn on the gushy love stuff when M was on stage or video but think nothing of being rude to get the seat on the shuttle, etc.

I am always having these memories of my last 'drips' . Ellen reminded me of how in 97 I muttered to the person next to me that I was so sick of the same 70's songs over and over and 2 people turned to me and just rolled their eyes and glared, like 'she's in her mind'. yes I was!! good!
yuck. I'm glad it's over.

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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 00:19:23 (GMT)
From: Disculta
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Why I left
Message:
In 1983 or 84 I was a physical and emotional mess. I went for help from a therapist, and started feeling better, and around that time MJ started dissing therapy and saying that he didn't want 'his premies messing around in their own garbage' (i.e. exploring the shadow side of authentic feelings and inner knowing that one had to suppress to go along with all the crap). This was the time when MJ had suddenly closed the shrams and there were hundreds of lost souls going berserk in Miami, who desperately needed to get some kind of counselling. Asshole! He only said that because he was afraid of losing his hold on people.

I was so fucking incensed, pissed off, enraged... I had to be really careful not to completely become a pariah because practically everyone I knew was a premie -- it was Miami. I left in a 'subtle' way at first.

This made me leave, along with my growing stress and indignation about MJ's having encouraged couples to split up and parents to leave children to go in the ashram –– only to close them when it suited him --were the things that I felt the most furious about.

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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 04:37:20 (GMT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: Thank goodness for this site--I left because of it
Message:
Finding this site was a shocking, gut-wrenching ordeal for me. I knew that the cult lifestyle didn't work for decades . . . but somehow, I just stayed on and on and on. I did everything connected to the cult out of a sense of obligation. How many times can you get excited about a trip to Australia to perch on a dustbowl? What a horrid way to spend one's life--living the life of a prisoner. The joy of culthood had long since disappeared but the brainwashing was strong.

This site enabled me to read my own inner thoughts via other exes. They explained the whole phenomenon so well. I was so glad to see that others were free of this garbage. The extrication was painful but well worth the trouble.

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Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 00:10:47 (GMT)
From: Wish
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Propagation in poor countries, publicity stunt
Message:
At every fund raiser they always mentioned that your donations help programs happen in poor countries that can't afford to pay for m's visits. That was a big drawing card for Yoram Wiess. Lard does programs in Africa to make himself look holy and have a good excuse to demand always more money from premies in America and Europe. A publicity stunt is what I call it.
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Date: Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 05:08:12 (GMT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Wish
Subject: seems similar to jim and tammy's thing...
Message:
I agree, it seems very similar to some of the stuff that Jimmy Swaggart or Jim and Tammy Baker would do in the 80's....

They would adopt some small poor village in some god-forsaken place in the third world and send a few bucks over there every year...plenty of video footage about helping the poor people with food, shelter,bibles,education atc....

What they wouldn't tell you is that what went over there, was a TINY amount of their total revenues....it gave the illusion of saving the world, but the vast majority of the money went for totally unrelated things, including much money for them and their houses etc...

It can be effective in bringing in the donations....

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Date: Sat, Nov 11, 2000 at 20:17:55 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: very OT but I gotta say it
Message:
I missed George Dubya on Letterman but a friend of mine just told me about it. Said he was pretty ok. But that Dave showed a clip the NEXT night, which I also missed so I hope this isn't another urban legend.

Dave told the audience that they would want to watch this. He didn't make any other commentary or joke just explained they kept the camera running during commercial break.
The makeup person came out to touch up Dave's makeup and while she was doing this, GW reached over and cleaned his glasses on her sweater. This bothered me.
Our next president I hope not.

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Date: Sat, Nov 11, 2000 at 21:50:32 (GMT)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: very OT but I gotta say it
Message:
I've seen GW dozens of times but never wearing glasses.
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Date: Sat, Nov 11, 2000 at 23:25:06 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Rick
Subject: I thought of that
Message:
My husband said he put them on to read the top 10 list.
I didn't see it, don't know.
as i said it could be another urban legend (like hedgehogs?)
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Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 00:35:39 (GMT)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: I thought of that
Message:
Okay, that makes sense. Much as I dislike the guy, it's still kind of hard to believe.
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Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 01:13:09 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Rick
Subject: hi again, more OT information (sorry everyone)
Message:
I know what you mean. I couldn't believe it when she told me, I thought maybe he thought he was being funny?
Anyway, just picke dup the mail from my PO box and this weeks TV guide has a picture of him on Letterman , reading with glasses.
so therefore I say all bad things about him could be true :)

And so, after all the important info passed along here this is what gets to me. What can I say?

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Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 01:36:13 (GMT)
From: Lurking Poster
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: hi again, more OT information (sorry everyone)
Message:
Selene, I dont know if it would be a good thing if everyone took the libertys that you have, but I want you to know I like most of your OT stuff.
This last one I have passed on to the political enthusiasticos in my address book
this is the climate M will be propagating in and so I dont consider it all that ot...

;)
LP

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Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 01:43:50 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Lurking Poster
Subject: thank you so much!
Message:
Keep lurking :)
I do take liberties don't I? oh oh some premie might complain so I'll stop now.
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Date: Sat, Nov 11, 2000 at 19:37:00 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: To: Katie
Message:
Hi Katie,

I couldn't email the FA, ???, but I would like to get a copy of my previous journey if that's possible. I want to rewrite it, but my system crashed recently and I lost EVERYTHING.

You can email me at sylviecyn@yahoo.com. The FA should have my personal email address, and I'd prefer to have you write me directly to that one.

Thanks,
Cynthia

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Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 03:44:25 (GMT)
From: Brian
Email: brian@ex-premie.org
To: Cynthia
Subject: Re: your Journeys entry
Message:
The FA doesn't have anything to do with site content outside of this forum.

I used to toss Journeys after the authors asked that they be removed. A while ago, I started saving them to disk in case the author might change their mind.

I still have your old entry, and will email it to you at the address you gave.

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Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 18:09:00 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: To Brian...I got it, thanks NT
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Nov 11, 2000 at 16:13:44 (GMT)
From: The Dolphin
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Maharaji's failure
Message:
Maharaj has failed trying to make a diference between the honesty , the moral and the knowledge , the conscience ; it must be impossible , it's like a human organism with vertebral column's failure (it canīt be able to syncronize its movements).
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Date: Sat, Nov 11, 2000 at 15:38:42 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Blue Max
Subject: to Blue Max
Message:
Hi Blue Max -
I saved your post asking me about my feelings about M before the lower political threads got deleted. I don't have time to answer the question fully right now, but wanted you to know that I will answer it when I have the opportunity (it calls for a well thought out answer). You can read my journeys entry to know some of how I feel - it's under Katie Mischa.

Take care -
Katie

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Date: Sat, Nov 11, 2000 at 15:33:51 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Stop that buck!
Message:
Just for the record, here's the text of a letter I received this morning from a Mrs Halcyon Meldrum (glorious name!) of the Charity Commission for England and Wales. My previous letter concerned the fact that Elan Vital in the US had used donations from other countries to buy the various aircraft that Maharaji has had exclusive use of over the last couple of decades.

I'm at present working on my reply to her, and I thought that, if anyone would like to raise their own concerns about this issue, post them here and I can incorporate them into my forthcoming reply.

Alternatively you can write to them yourselves at:

Charity Commision
Harmsworth House
13-15 Bouverie Street
London
EC4Y 8DP

Here's the letter they sent:


9 November 2000

Dear Mr Giles

ELAN VITAL TRUST (1016818)

Thank you for your letter dated 9 September addressed to Mr David Rich who has asked me to reply on his behalf.

The accounts for the financial year end 31 March 1999 for Elan Vital Trust, show that the charity holds restricted funds for the purpose of making donations to Elan Vital International, Elan Vital Inc and Elan Vital Australia. You may be aware that a charity is entitled to make donations to other charities with similar objects, including international charities, as the donation will be in furtherance of its objects. The objects of the UK charity are to advance public education in the understanding and realisation of human potential through self-knowledge based upon the teachings of Prem Pal Singh Rawat k/a Maharaji, and therefore any money being sent to another organisation should be for this purpose. As the international organisations would apear to have similar objects to the (sic) of the UK charity, there would be no objections to donations being made to the intenational charity. It is then a matter for the trustees of the receiving charity to decide how they advance public education into the teachings of Prem Pal Singh Rawat.

Yours sincerely


Halcyon Meldrum (Mrs)

.
.
.
.

So there you have it. And I wonder where this particular buck will stop. Anyone know who is accountable for Charity status in the US?

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Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 08:36:37 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: for starters.. you might send her...
Message:
Michael Dettmer's posting describing how he resigned in person in that Miami apartment. plus the description above it of MJ's other sustained intoxicated behavior and his reaction to the seminar.

you might send this official subsequent excerpts of the piece on sir david's site, about the affairs in Miami, marolyn and her chauffeur, MJ with claudia and monica, the threatened divorce.

the descriptions Dettmers posted us of MJ getting stoned are sure to arouse their interest, since pot is illegal and this so-called 'charity''s funds are obviously being used to traffic in illegal substances, since MJ gets his income from nowhere else...

start with those. we can locate others bound to raise their suspicions. it's all here.

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Date: Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 19:52:10 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: for starters.. you might send her...
Message:
Hi Janet,

There's so many beans to spill aren't there? I think we've got to remember that we're dealing with a Government agency here, and one that plays things strictly by the books. There are many people who are trustees of Charities (many of them very wealthy) whose lives are less than ethical, but as long as they don't break the rules (at least as far as Charity-status goes) then the Commission really has no power of retribution. No matter how unethical the whole Maha scenario might seem to those of us who have seen through it, the likes of the Commission can really do nothing UNTIL and UNLESS THEIR rules are broken.

The Maha might have been (or still be) a piss-artist (ie given to binges on alcohol) but that ain't no crime. He might have resisted dealing with his addiction in a therapy/counselling scenario, but that ain't no crime. He might have been screwing every would-be Gopi that thought he was Krishna re-incarnate, but ... you guessed it. He might have gotten stoned to Peter Frampton but ... woah! now that might be criminal, but what do you think the Charity Commission can do about that?

Heh, heh, ... get my drift? (that last bit should be said in a Barry White octave) - sad but you gotta laugh, at least a bit?


Perhaps there's some way of proving that the Maha gets his income from nowhere else. But first we gotta prove it.

It can be a long hard walk to get the criminals to face justice, especially when justice (so-called) prefers to turn the other cheek. But what we're looking for here, in my ever-so-jaundiced opinion, is for some people who COULD spill the real beans (the ones that count, you dig?) to put their er ... 'non-disclosure agreements' are they called? - under the spotlight.

Yeah, it's no surprise that Michael Dettmers' name comes to mind here, but I bet there's plenty more that have signed similar agreements with the Maha, over the last few decades.

Michael might think, in some perverse way, that he's safeguarding his quote 'ethical' interests by preventing a criminal (OK - it hasn't been proved yet, but you know what I'm getting at) from facing the music. But I wonder what his current clients (especially any 'religously'-inclined ones) might think of that attitude?
.
.
.

Where do we go from here?

Evidence of illegal behaviour - particularly on the financial front. That's what's required.

Who to supply it?

i wonder.

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Date: Sat, Nov 11, 2000 at 17:11:00 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: so EV USA is a church AND a charity?
Message:
Seems like an oxymoron to me. Do you understand how that works cq?

You could always ask her where she got her name. I picture a quaint coutryside cottage with hedgehogs in the shrubs and Halcyon dazed people napping on the porch.

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Date: Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 18:48:31 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: so EV USA is a church AND a charity?
Message:
Hi Selene, just got online again after posting last Saturday.

Oxymoron you say? like ... er, 'military intelligence'? or was that double entendre? Anyway, hopefully some exes might know the answer as to which govt. body oversees the Charities in the US, and if so PLEASE tell us!

Halcyon - yes what a sweet name, - pity about the Meldrum part of it (it's a bit too close to Meldrew for my liking). Ever heard of Victor Meldrew, from the 'One foot in the grave' UK sitcom? - if not, I'm sure it'll come your way one of these days.

Augusta Prodworthy - now there's another fine British name.

Just thank your lucky stars you're a Selene!

Byseee bye.

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Date: Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 19:15:02 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: now that I think about it
Message:
Although churches and charities seem very different to me,
my memory of the church is they were always ASKING for donations not giving them. So it does make sense that they could be a charity. (or does it?) I hate the fact that M can hide behind that loophole. The part about his gift to people is spreading knowledge is especially hard to take.
But I am not going to plod through all the archives and try to understand the legalities. I'm glad others have done the research and wonder if it made a difference? At any rate no one answered my question. but it was worth asking because:
These British names are excellent!
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Date: Sat, Nov 11, 2000 at 17:42:56 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: WHAT A SCAM!! (ot)
Message:
You are so, so funny!! And so what that I'm cheering...ass...h

What a fricking scam the whole thing is: IT MAKES ME SICK EVERYTIME to think about it. No way we ex-premies are wrong.

IT IS TOO SICKENING TO BE ANYTHING GOOD. EH, YOU PREMIES: CAN YOU SEE IT??? Time to wake up.

A big hug,

s, having fun

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Date: Sat, Nov 11, 2000 at 17:51:29 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: glad you are having fun s
Message:
It is a scam no matter how they pull it off. I admit I didn't read all those in depth posts on the church status stuff so I am probably asking something that I should look into the archives for or research myself but it's boring. So throw shoes at me too :) :)
They are getting away with it so I assume they covered their butts. I remember a premie telling me how proud she was of the way M had changed his image and how smart he was to do that to avoid scrutiny. As IF he could have done that on his own w/o advisement.

A big hug to you too.
Love, another S

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Date: Sat, Nov 11, 2000 at 18:26:00 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Great!
Message:
I heard some shoes, but you know? Who in the fucking care???

Have fun u 2!!

Love

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Date: Sat, Nov 11, 2000 at 11:13:48 (GMT)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Hamster dance 2
Message:
I just found this - and if it has been posted before please feel free to all shout or throw shoes at me -

But it rang a bell.

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Bluffs/4157/hampdance.html

Regards to you all

Loaf

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Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 22:54:56 (GMT)
From: Curious George
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: Hamster dance 2
Message:
There was also a cartoon of a hamster dancing which I enjoyed a lot. Can you show us how to go to it directly?

Curious George

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Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 23:19:15 (GMT)
From: Direct
Email: None
To: Curious George
Subject: LIVE link to: Hamster dance 2
Message:
Hamster dance 2
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Date: Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 16:38:07 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Direct
Subject: But who let those chipmunks in? (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 16:58:16 (GMT)
From: 'Direct'
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: OK, I bit, but I didn't see any chipmunks. (nt)
Message:
Chipmunks have little white chipping stripes, don't they? And is this OT or what!?!!
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Date: Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 18:33:59 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: 'Direct'
Subject: The ones marching right to left...
Message:
Ok, they've got the wrong markings, but they have definite chipmunk faces - not hamsterish at all. And yes, this IS off-topic, but since everyone else is talking about Gush versus Bore I don't reckon anyone can complain too much.
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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 03:37:47 (GMT)
From: 'Direct'
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: The ones marching right to left...
Message:
Yes, I noticed them, but maybe they're really those curly-whorled guinea pigs party crashing! (actually, they remind me a bit of Pepe Le Pew - the over-sexed skunk!) Do you think we should start a new thread and take a vote?

This (off) topic is reminding me that I haven't met my nephew's hamsters yet - I think I'll send that page to him right now and see what he thinks!

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Date: Sat, Nov 11, 2000 at 18:09:18 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: How did the name 'hamster' come about?
Message:
I've been curious about this because hamsters are cute.

Even when I want to call m a snake, I feel sorry for the snakes.

Just wondering...
Cynthia

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Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 21:40:05 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: How did the name 'hamster' come about?
Message:
Hi Cynthia,

It was Jim who started it - either as a typo or play on words, 'master' became 'hamster'. It isn't quite an anagram, but pretty close. (I think there are hamster qualities which are relevant, too: sloping-shouldered, squeaky voiced, likes to be fed, watered, petted and cherished and given a lovely comfortable nest to snuggle up in.)

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Date: Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 09:44:06 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: You forgot about the cannibalism Nige
Message:
They're supposed to eat their young occasionally which was his selling point on this one when I tried to defend the good name of hamsters from such a slur as association with the piranha fish known as Mr Rawat.
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Date: Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 11:39:52 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: ham
Subject: Know your enemy
Message:
If I was a hamster I'll be offended by comparing me to blubber

From

http://www.hamsterland.com/

The history of the hamster.


It all began in 1930 with one mother and twelve young hamsters that a zoologist found in the Syrian Desert (situated in the Middle East to the north of Israel). Deep in a burrow eight feet underground he came upon a hamster mother and her litter. By the time he got his tiny family back to his laboratory in Jerusalem. All but three of them had died or escaped. These three, however, continued in excellent health and within four months the first litter of Golden Hamsters ever to be born in captivity was delivered.

As they matured, these babies were interbred, and as the tame hamsters multiplied they were used in research experiments. Soon they began to attract widespread attention in the scientific world. Because hamsters were so disease-free and bred so rapidly (they can have a new litter every month!) and because they were so friendly and easy to handle, they came to be highly regarded as laboratory animals and their fame spread throughout the world accordingly. They're often used for cardio-vascular research, as their cardio-vascular system is remarkably similar to that of the human.

From Jerusalem, scientists took them to laboratories in France, England and, in 1938, to the United States. All present-day Golden Hamsters in captivity with the exception of a few brought back by travelers and military men are the descendants of that first tiny family found in Syria.

In Syria and other Middle Eastern countries where hamsters are common, the farmers do not only harvest their own fields, they dig into the hamsters' granaries as well. In each burrow they find a storage bin which may hold anywhere between 30 and 60 pounds of grain which the hamsters have stored away for the winter.

Hamsters got their name from an old German word associated with storing food. (The word 'hamper' comes from the same root.) One of the characteristics of the hamster, like many rodents, is to stuff their cheeks full of food, which is a hamster-like activity.

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Date: Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 16:23:52 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Thanks for the background....
Message:
The behavior similarities are stunning.

Thinking about it, live hamsters aren't so cute...the cartoon ones are!

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Date: Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 19:51:01 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: dancing hamster
Message:
Wouldn't it be cool to create an animated dancing guru hamster for the site? Roger's boobie Ji could dance like the dancing baby?
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Date: Sat, Nov 11, 2000 at 08:53:28 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: A Question for all of you Premie Buffs
Message:
Including willy Mili, shp, mel, erica..etc.

Brian have asked for MONEY contribution to maintain this site. Are you going to contribute?

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Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 08:42:26 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: all premie buffs
Subject: brian set up a paypal account if you do
Message:
you're quite accustomed to putting money toward anything having to do with maharaji, right? and everyone who posts here received knowledge and practiced it, right? and the dialog won't be able to continue without the site, right? Ergo....
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Date: Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 19:35:37 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Taking a break for a while
Message:
Yeah, this is yet another one of those times where I can't help but count the hours I've spent here and think maybe I should take a break for a while. Really, I could just hover over this keyboard for hours and hours and hours. And for what? A little more refinement of a picture I've already got, however grainy? A few laughs with some people I like? (These are my two favorite things here). Or how about the opportunity to argue with cult members? Hm......

Anyway, my self-control is pathetic. Calls for drastic measures so I'm pulling the plug for now. I trust someone will email me if something big happens. (Watch, now I'll be still hovering over my keyboard, checking my email every five minutes or faster! -- no, no way).

Take care, everyone

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Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 02:21:28 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Taking a break for a while
Message:
You'll be missed.

Have a great time!

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Date: Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 20:44:24 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: Too right he'll be missed.Next time aim better(nt)
Message:
bang!
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Date: Sat, Nov 11, 2000 at 15:49:00 (GMT)
From: DV
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: The time solution for me will be bandwidth.
Message:
Noow my access speed is 33 to 56 k, but once I hook up to Starband my access speed will increase up to 50 times. This should allow me to get in and outta here in less than 5 minutes, as posts should display within seconds.
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Date: Sat, Nov 11, 2000 at 13:10:55 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Taking a break for a while
Message:
Jim,

Maybe you should pop over for a coffee and a chat.

Anth still looking for his shoes

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Date: Sat, Nov 11, 2000 at 01:14:02 (GMT)
From: Erica
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Jeeez .....
Message:
I was just starting to feel like we were getting in to the spirit of things ... but it is definitely a time and money waster!

Ciao.

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Date: Sat, Nov 11, 2000 at 01:59:23 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: Erica
Subject: Jeeez .....
Message:
It's one thing to get into 'the spirit of things' (that's what premies do best, after all) and another to engage in sensible conversation. I'm not surprised Jimbo's had enough. So have I, quite frankly.
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Date: Sat, Nov 11, 2000 at 02:37:19 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Me too, I am going.
Message:
What's with every one wanting to quit. Let's start the I-Quit forum.
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Date: Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 22:20:48 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Salam
Subject: I ain't goin nowhere...
Message:
I'm here for the duration. Watching the ship finally go down is unmissable. I was just expressing the momentary frustration of trying to engage with premies, wilfully blind to what's going on around them.
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Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 02:13:09 (GMT)
From: sb
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Me too, I am going.
Message:
Jim is not quitting, just taking a brake, I hope.

You can't quit forever: This forum is a pest!
Just joking.:))))

Where else can we fallen angeles express our dislike for such a bastard, I mean, master (kind of rime)... Sorry, no erasers around.

But Salam, you are so creative you should go for it, and if you do, maybe you can work also in other forums. Remember the idea given by someone once who propossed different forums for different moods; maybe that can be a solution to please all 'clients' and to stop many stupid arguments.

PS: Where is the picture?

Love,

S

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Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 05:38:50 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: sb
Subject: Me too, I am going.
Message:
I am going to have to dig up one very soon. Not to worry, I have wated 20 years, another week won't make a difference. I agree with the idea of diffrent forums for different moods. Hey wasn't Sir David that had a chat room that you can go and talk to yourself. I go there once in a while and screem my head of. Make feel like a total idiot. Waht do think of the idiot in the thread above wanting to see me? He/she sound like a puffta to me.

Did you manage to sue whatshisname? How you doinin?

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Date: Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 23:42:25 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: don't worry
Message:
You can't escape my clutches. I'll let you know if something happens.


Marianne

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Date: Sat, Nov 11, 2000 at 08:44:47 (GMT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: ...Jim, we'll save the last premie for you! -nt-
Message:
no text
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Date: Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 22:34:50 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Bon voyage - but don't miss the endgame...(nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 22:09:56 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: bull...........................................nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 20:30:55 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Jim
Subject: Better to quit while you are ahead or be blocked
Message:
Yeah, Jim, we (I cannot divulge member names of the secret society) took a vote to determine whether we should ask the Forum Administrator to 'block' you, but we have encountered some discrepancies counting the ballots. And it appears that member Government Inspector has submitted more than one ballot.

Ok, Jim, it's going to be very difficult to quit the Forum cold turkey. I suggest that you just concentrate on the calming effect that comes from consciously breathing slowly in and out, in and out, in and out. So, when you practice the old In and Out just try to imagine that you are riding on a swing - in and out, so and hum, so and hum.

That's it, you've got it. Now, doesn't that feel better? Don't you feel more connected to the primordial force that is the source of all things in this Universe and even beyond? And, gratitude, Jim, are you perhaps feeling grateful now?

Oh, and Jim, one more thing, please make out your check to Elan eDrek. I'm trying to avoid problems with the IRS.

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Date: Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 20:18:20 (GMT)
From: TD
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: But what about the American election? (joke - nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 20:03:26 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Everyone
Subject: I Too Am Feeling The Same Way
Message:
I'm feeling the same way as Jim.

In my case I feel I need to start concentrating on 'getting a life', although I have no idea which direction that will be. I'm a Chartered Accountant who has no interest in accounting. I've been told by a lawyer recently that I should go to law school and considered that briefly, but don't like the idea right now. I've thought of taking a course to be a stock broker, but it doesn't turn me on very much.

I've got training as a computer programmer and that area interests me still, but I don't think I can see myself doing that persistently.

I've also thought of being a 'porn star', but I'm probably too old and I have no connections in the business.

I wish that some kind of group action had been taken by now against m, be it legal, petition to him or his associates or political authorities, demonstration outside his palace in Malibu, or whatever. Since this place seems to be all talk and no action and I've been here for around five weeks, I'm getting tired of this aspect of the forum.

Bye for now and I hope that we can meet some time in an arena of doing positive things, not just complaining and joking around.

All The Best,

Steve

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Date: Sat, Nov 11, 2000 at 18:23:23 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Steve Quint
Subject: Write
Message:
Go for it. Make a decission and stick to it.

Write

S

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Date: Sat, Nov 11, 2000 at 06:43:16 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Steve Quint
Subject: great!Brian gets a bigger server and u all quit
Message:
it never fails. great timing. run up the bill all to hell and walk out.
i, too have been lamenting to myself that I need to get a life. I too, have been addicted to this place the last several weeks. not that i have a life otherwise, you understand. i'm a johhny come lately to this whole thing, but i had no idea so many of you were feeling like this.
what's the point of Brian moving everything to a bigger server, if everybody is gonna vanish? Isn't that kinda like renting the astrodome, expecting the world, and having only 23,000 of the faithful show up??? Or spending three years gilding toilets and restoring an old 707, and then realizing it's not what you wanted, after all?Or purchasing a tract of land in South America to ostensibly have your own retreat, and then leaving it abandoned?
jeez...maybe we learned a little too well from our Master.
Does anybody else see what I see, here?
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Date: Sat, Nov 11, 2000 at 17:34:39 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: great!Brian gets a bigger server and u all quit
Message:
I like your guts... I see it.

Now I have to read the above posts. I wanted to know who you were further; I read what you wrote to shp and it moved me to tears (laugh you bast....)all truth you remind us of. I'm talking about the message that Jim reposted.

Cheers. Good to be free, eh? I love it!!

mahariachi sucks to infinitum!

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Date: Sat, Nov 11, 2000 at 06:54:28 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: janet
Subject: oh my god! Janet is right. We've...
Message:
become just like HIM - bored, callous, and tempermental without any ability to follow through. Just like ADD. No wonder Maharaji can only teach meditation - he can't do it.
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Date: Sat, Nov 11, 2000 at 17:06:08 (GMT)
From: DULL
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Is not easy being green....NT
Message:
NT
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Date: Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 21:58:13 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Steve Quint
Subject: How about
Message:
Starting the NO GURU party, that should keep you busy.
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Date: Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 19:55:23 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: You need an alternative
Message:
Jim,

Unless you find an alternative that draws you to it the same way this forum does, you'll be back in no time. Another thing, I find if I don't post, I don't have to check in to see if anybody responded. It helps.

See ya' around.

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Date: Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 21:28:15 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Jerry/Jim
Subject: so true
Message:
Not posting helps a lot. uh I'll start tomorrow.

Worse yet is to have dozens of reasons why one HAS to be online, such as a job, and what happens? I come here everytime I don't want to do my work. But this Is Not About Me
so Hey Jim best of wishes and no sarcasm meant. I have benefitted from my breaks a lot. And from talking with you believe it or not. At least it made me think. And learn how to deal with anger on the net a bit better :) :) :)))

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Date: Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 21:47:10 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: so true
Message:
You see? Now you're going to have to come back to see if I responded, and now I'm going to have to come back to see if you responded.

You see what you started?

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Date: Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 22:14:46 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: thanks for responding :) - Terribly Way Off Topic
Message:
haha you figure out the acronym and thank you to whoever pointed it out to me.
Now don't encourage me. I have nothing to say about M right now. I have become fixated redoing our web sites. No one else in my 'team' wants to do it my way but that's ok.

selene, a self managed team of one

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Date: Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 22:23:31 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: You're welcome
Message:
But that's it, no more, I swear it. I'm not reponding after this.
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Date: Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 22:13:22 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: so true
Message:
I bet you're thinking of what you'll be posting after him posting to what you have posted.
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Date: Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 19:39:35 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: that is smart
Message:
When you start to feel like the rat pressing the lever for the intermittant positive reinforcement, it is time for a break.

See you after your vacation!

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Date: Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 23:16:55 (GMT)
From: gentle ben
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: ah come on jimbo....whose ass am i gonna kick
Message:
don't leave ...please...i beg u...stay..
just a lil'while longer...
pretty please...
u twerp and a half...
don't go...
talk more trash...
i bequest...
ain't there more slim u can help us all roll around in..
must be...
we is only human after all..
or is it? it's a small world afterall ?
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Date: Sat, Nov 11, 2000 at 00:04:26 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I'll miss you...be well..a rest is good...(nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 18:45:34 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Happy Birthday Cynthia!!!!
Message:
Happy Birthday to you

I wish I knew how to make the letters big and bold and colorful!

Have a great day!

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Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 00:35:50 (GMT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: cynthia
Subject: Happy [bandwith restriction applied] -nt-
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 18:52:51 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Happy Birthday Cynthia!!!!
Message:
I second that emotion :). Happy birthday, and MANY happy returns!

Love,
Katie

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Date: Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 23:27:39 (GMT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Happy Birthday Cynthia!!!!
Message:
Many Happy Returns & keep digging in Daddy's jewel box.

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Date: Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 23:43:53 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Happy Birthday Cynthia!!!!
Message:
I join in the chorus. And keep those posts coming! Are you having cake? Do tell!

Love, Marianne

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Date: Sat, Nov 11, 2000 at 14:54:16 (GMT)
From: Monmlt
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Happy Birthday Cynthia! And Many More nt
Message:
mm
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Date: Sat, Nov 11, 2000 at 15:49:39 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Monmlt
Subject: Yo! Scorpio! Keep yer stinger up! nt
Message:
bzzt
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