Nigel -:- Happy Birthday, Jim! (ot) -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 14:08:30 (GMT)

__ Salam -:- Happy Birthday, Jim! (ot) -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 01:45:06 (GMT)

__ ham -:- I'll second that big boy -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 01:36:01 (GMT)

__ Mickey the Pharisee -:- Happy Birthday, Jim! (ot) -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 23:36:52 (GMT)

__ __ Jennifer -:- From one Scorpio to another -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 20:20:58 (GMT)

__ Robyn -:- Happy Birthday, Jim! (ot) and to Nige -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 17:56:07 (GMT)

__ JohnT -:- Many more! (ot) -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 14:31:18 (GMT)

__ __ cq -:- Here's the seventh, John (ot) -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 19:18:17 (GMT)

hamzen -:- Elan Vital never asks for money, right!!! -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 12:54:30 (GMT)

__ cq -:- The 10 to 20 grand a day wasn't only when touring! -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 19:02:05 (GMT)

__ __ ham -:- Cq, have you forgotten already, shame on you. -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 01:28:23 (GMT)

__ __ __ cq -:- Well slap my botty, I quite forgot ... -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 19:00:40 (GMT)

__ Stonor -:- hamzen!!! (OT) -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 16:02:17 (GMT)

__ TD -:- Elan Vital never asks for money, right!!! -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 15:22:37 (GMT)

toby -:- a big help for premies -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 08:49:36 (GMT)

__ san -:- a big help for premies -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 09:45:59 (GMT)

__ __ toby -:- a big help for premies -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 09:56:17 (GMT)

__ __ __ sam -:- help? -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 10:11:16 (GMT)

ebay alert -:- magazine -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 04:30:48 (GMT)

__ Jean-Michel -:- magazine -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 08:29:16 (GMT)

__ __ sam -:- magazine -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 09:51:03 (GMT)

__ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Press articles needed -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 10:25:47 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ jondon -:- What is your snail mail address?? (nt) -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 13:03:46 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ JKean-Michel -:- Check your email in a minute ! (nt) -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 14:17:53 (GMT)

La-ex -:- Michael Dettmers,the question is below....(NT) -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 02:19:57 (GMT)

la-ex -:- another question from Miami, early 80's.... -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 02:18:29 (GMT)

__ Michael Dettmers -:- another question from Miami, early 80's.... -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 13:27:27 (GMT)

__ __ Tim Miller -:- Midge was fairly tall -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 07:34:52 (GMT)

__ __ __ Michael Dettmers -:- Midge was fairly tall -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 10:08:31 (GMT)

__ __ janet -:- from Miami, early 80's.... -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 21:47:21 (GMT)

__ __ __ la-ex -:- from Miami, early 80's.... -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 03:25:49 (GMT)

__ Jean-Michel -:- Simple guess -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 08:58:47 (GMT)

__ __ cq -:- '... the usual figures'??? -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 19:28:34 (GMT)

__ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- There is nothing wrong in this ! -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 08:34:34 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ cq -:- There bloody well IS something wrong with it! -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 19:07:41 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- There bloody well IS something wrong with it! -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 22:19:13 (GMT)

__ __ Jethro -:- Simple guess -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 16:57:51 (GMT)

__ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Simple guess -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 17:03:40 (GMT)

__ __ sam -:- Simple guess -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 09:59:56 (GMT)

Bongo -:- Hijacked -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 18:50:58 (GMT)

__ Dingo -:- Hijacked -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 17:01:13 (GMT)

__ Bingo -:- Hijacked -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 11:00:06 (GMT)

__ __ bongo -:- Hijacked -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 15:57:10 (GMT)

__ __ __ Way -:- Hijacked -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 16:39:08 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ bongo -:- Hijacked -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 23:23:06 (GMT)

__ sam -:- Hijacked -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 10:05:59 (GMT)

__ Daneane -:- Hijacked -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 06:40:12 (GMT)

__ Way -:- To Bongo -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 19:36:02 (GMT)

__ __ Bongo -:- clarification -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 20:23:56 (GMT)

__ __ __ Way -:- clarification -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 21:10:14 (GMT)

__ Mongo -:- right on -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 19:00:51 (GMT)

__ __ ham -:- He's a peninsula (nt) -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 01:48:26 (GMT)

__ __ Tongo -:- No man is an island, Jack -nt- -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 08:54:05 (GMT)

SB -:- Thanks to everybody here! -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 17:59:33 (GMT)

__ cq -:- If you love somebody ... -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 19:46:40 (GMT)

__ __ sb -:- If you love somebody ... -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 20:04:12 (GMT)

__ __ __ cq -:- There's love and there's love ... -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 20:47:39 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ SB -:- Super. ROFL!! -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 21:54:27 (GMT)

__ Hal -:- Yeah ! freedom at last SB love ya ! nt -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 19:29:02 (GMT)

__ __ sb -:- I love you bro -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 20:01:51 (GMT)

__ Selene -:- can I have some of whatever you are taking? -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 18:44:46 (GMT)

__ __ SB -:- can I have some of whatever you are taking? -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 18:59:05 (GMT)

__ Robyn -:- Thanks to everybody here! -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 18:33:08 (GMT)

__ __ SB -:- Thanks to everybody here! -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 18:40:40 (GMT)

__ __ __ Robyn -:- Thanks to everybody here! -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 02:36:06 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ bill -:- Thanks to everybody here! -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 04:34:35 (GMT)

__ Salam -:- Have you been on that weed again?....nt -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 18:03:14 (GMT)

__ __ sb -:- You are silly :000 :0000 :)))))) nt -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 21:57:46 (GMT)

__ __ SB -:- Which one??? nt -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 18:09:46 (GMT)

__ __ __ ham -:- Did someone say there was some weed around? -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 01:42:33 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Did someone say there was some weed around? -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 05:19:53 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ SB -:- You guys are nuts -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 03:41:46 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Salam -:- you are in your head. -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 02:07:28 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ ham -:- Who're you cxalling in their head,eh?? -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 14:06:59 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ SB -:- WHICH THREAD? -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 03:43:47 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- WHICH THREAD? -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 04:19:33 (GMT)

TD -:- Observation about discussions on Constitution (OT) -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 15:38:01 (GMT)

__ Scott T. -:- Observation about discussions on Constitution (OT) -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 12:38:21 (GMT)

__ __ JohnT -:- Observation about discussions on Constitution (OT) -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 14:28:25 (GMT)

__ __ __ Scott T. -:- Observation about discussions on Constitution (OT) -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 15:49:45 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Scott T. -:- Stare Decisis (OT) -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 16:11:08 (GMT)

__ a0aji -:- Observation about discussions on Constitution (OT) -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 08:52:40 (GMT)

__ G -:- Constitution (OT) -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 00:44:53 (GMT)

__ Cynthia -:- Observation about discussions on Constitution (OT) -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 18:13:32 (GMT)

__ __ TD -:- Observation about discussions on Constitution (OT) -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 15:16:05 (GMT)

__ __ __ Scott T. -:- Observation about discussions on Constitution (OT) -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 15:53:20 (GMT)

__ __ Ben Lurking -:- Observation about discussions on Constitution (OT) -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 01:16:31 (GMT)

toby -:- matthias bretscher -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 13:05:41 (GMT)

__ janet -:- matthias bretscher's site and email... -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 08:31:15 (GMT)

__ __ toby -:- matthias bretscher's site and email... -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 09:33:53 (GMT)

__ Nigel -:- Vielleicht man schreibt ihm.? -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 20:09:46 (GMT)

__ Jethro -:- matthias bretscher -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 15:16:49 (GMT)

__ Jean-Michel -:- Yes that's him ! no doubt -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 14:22:16 (GMT)

__ __ Nigel -:- I agree it looks just like him... -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 19:24:35 (GMT)

__ Hal -:- matthias bretscher -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 13:24:49 (GMT)

__ __ Nigel -:- matthias bretscher -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 19:34:34 (GMT)

__ __ toby -:- matthias bretscher -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 13:35:23 (GMT)

__ __ __ EddyTheTurtle -:- matthias bretscher -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 14:16:25 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ 411 -:- toby -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 06:16:30 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ EddyTheTurtle -:- Thanks 411..Thats the one ...Big Toby -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 14:25:50 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Buzz -:- matthias bretscher -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 19:24:03 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ toby -:- matthias bretscher -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 15:12:20 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ EddyTheTurtle -:- matthias bretscher -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 15:54:35 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ toby -:- matthias bretscher -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 09:35:23 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- 'when it is day and I say it's night' -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 15:24:11 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ toby -:- matthias bretscher site -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 10:14:23 (GMT)

Sir Dave -:- Now The Truth has a search engine -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 12:44:17 (GMT)

__ DV -:- Now The Truth has a search engine -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 00:44:42 (GMT)

__ __ Sir Dave -:- Good - that's what it's for (nt) -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 14:54:54 (GMT)

__ emile -:- what a load!!! -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 22:25:03 (GMT)

__ __ Nigel -:- what a load!!! -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 22:23:33 (GMT)

__ __ Cynthia -:- Gee, emile, where'd you get your numbers? -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 21:51:41 (GMT)

__ __ Sir Dave -:- Flattery will get you everywhere -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 23:09:16 (GMT)

__ bill -:- Now The Truth has a search engine -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 16:26:50 (GMT)

__ __ Sir Dave -:- Now The Truth has a search engine -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 23:13:54 (GMT)

__ __ __ bill -:- Now The Truth has a search engine -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 04:19:04 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Now The Truth has a search engine -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 14:56:20 (GMT)

__ Salam -:- Good job -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 12:58:57 (GMT)

__ __ Sir Dave -:- Good job -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 23:15:08 (GMT)

Salam -:- It's all in the family -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 12:32:29 (GMT)

__ Tim Miller -:- No one amswered the ? Where is -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 10:15:37 (GMT)

__ The Dolphin -:- It's all in the family -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 15:51:32 (GMT)

__ __ cq -:- Like taking candy from a baby -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 19:41:29 (GMT)

__ __ __ Salam -:- Dolphin: no I am not ABDUS Salam -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 02:31:48 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ The Dolphin -:- OK, Salam (nt) -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 02:46:44 (GMT)

__ cq -:- East-West fusion? -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 19:42:55 (GMT)

__ __ The Dolphin -:- LOL -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 02:52:40 (GMT)

__ bill -:- that would be the Sadler family of conn. -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 16:42:10 (GMT)

__ __ Cynthia -:- I know the Sadlers too. (nt) -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 17:38:37 (GMT)

Dorothy -:- DingDong the wick'd witch is dead... -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 08:25:22 (GMT)

__ Tim Miller -:- The SOB will be back soon enough nt -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 07:38:52 (GMT)

Blue Max -:- I came across this tonight -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 05:34:31 (GMT)

__ Cynthia -:- I came across this tonight...so sad... -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 22:13:35 (GMT)

__ __ Blue Max -:- Cynthia, a few thoughts -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 06:27:00 (GMT)

__ bill -:- buddha makes a poor flight navigator -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 16:17:41 (GMT)

__ __ Blue Max -:- buddha makes a poor flight navigator -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 17:51:49 (GMT)

__ __ __ bill -:- buddha makes a poor flight navigator -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 04:14:17 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Blue Max -:- buddha makes a good ATC -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 06:31:43 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ bill -:- You are uninformed on the topic. -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 02:00:36 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Blue Max -:- Bill, why the long face? -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 12:11:55 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ bill -:- Bill, why the -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 22:19:15 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Blue Max -:- The Philosophical Knife -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 00:09:58 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ bill -:- The Philosophical Knife -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 01:47:50 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Blue Max -:- An update to the knife -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 05:19:13 (GMT)

__ __ __ sacre bleu! -:- Nothingness is sacred. Nothing else (nt) -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 19:50:30 (GMT)

BIll Burke -:- Thanks Michael Dettmers -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 03:41:30 (GMT)

__ A Friend -:- Thanks Michael Dettmers -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 05:37:28 (GMT)

__ __ bill -:- Th -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 16:03:38 (GMT)

Steve Quint -:- Weed-Watch Of The Week -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 03:30:20 (GMT)

__ AJW -:- Aren't you supposed to smoke it? (nt) -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 08:51:56 (GMT)

__ __ Stonor -:- marijuana and swastika and big business (OT?) -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 03:46:09 (GMT)

__ __ Salam -:- It a genetically modified weed made for premies -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 12:46:01 (GMT)

__ __ __ AJW -:- Kabir -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 13:02:22 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Salam -:- Kabir's little weed : courtesy of Janice Wilson -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 13:11:06 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- Kabir's little weed : courtesy of Janice Wilson -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 13:36:23 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- boogie on. (or should that be booger on?) -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 19:56:39 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- Are you trying to grow something in your closet? -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 13:51:35 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- Let’s get serious. -:- Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 14:15:32 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- Marolyn and the children. -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 10:19:10 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ a0aji -:- More premie pr0n -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 15:33:56 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- Marolyn and the children. -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 02:02:36 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Tim Miller -:- Tammy Faye Rawat! nt -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 03:35:10 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Steve Quint -:- Not Exactly, Her Husband Did Time nt -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 19:30:41 (GMT)

Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 14:08:30 (GMT) From: Nigel Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk To: Everyone Subject: Happy Birthday, Jim! (ot) Message:

- oh, but I forgot. You're not reading this, are you? No, of course you're not...

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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 01:45:06 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: Nigel Subject: Happy Birthday, Jim! (ot) Message:

Didn't you know? Jim is chained inside a cupboard in the cellar so he won't use the forum. It is part of his rehabilitation program.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 01:36:01 (GMT) From: ham Email: None To: jim Subject: I'll second that big boy Message:

And I'll keep the maturana stuff back til you return, I'm sure you'll be pleased to know, have a good break maytee

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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 23:36:52 (GMT) From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: Jim Subject: Happy Birthday, Jim! (ot) Message:

Happy Birthday to you, Jim, and are you having that birthday party you've been talking about for years? You know, the party that you always threaten us with; how your Mom won't invite certain people from the site, and that seating chart you've been working on for all these years...

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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 20:20:58 (GMT) From: Jennifer Email: None To: Jim Heller Subject: From one Scorpio to another Message:

Happy Birthday, Jim, you old Scorpio, you! But you don't believe in that nonsense anyway, do ya? ;) Jennifer

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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 17:56:07 (GMT) From: Robyn Email: None To: Nigel Subject: Happy Birthday, Jim! (ot) and to Nige Message:

Have a good one Jim. And Nigel, you are looking quite lovely in your birthday goddess gown. :) Love, Robyn

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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 14:31:18 (GMT) From: JohnT Email: None To: Nigel Subject: Many more! (ot) Message:

Nigel, are you seriously suggesting that Jim can read without making replies. I'm sorry geezer, but I can't believe that. I've believed my quota of six impossible things already today.

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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 19:18:17 (GMT) From: cq Email: None To: JohnT Subject: Here's the seventh, John (ot) Message:

... I'm wishing Jim a Happy Birthday too! Yeah, have a good one, Jim. (absurd?)

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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 12:54:30 (GMT) From: hamzen Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Elan Vital never asks for money, right!!! Message:

But whoops, whats this in the newsletter I see about how the costs of setting up the satellite broadcasts, the newsletter and all the other paraphernalia is more than the money coming in, so don't forget you premies, keep donating, ohh and remember that as Jean-Michel points out in a post below, not a single $ of it goes to support the $10,000-$20,000 per day he needs to survive on while touring. Isn't life blissful when you only have to work part-time and earn even more than lawyers and plumbers, think that would even get my confidence up to unheard of levels. Ohh and while you're at it don't forget the engraved trinkets on the Visions ~Site, there's even a Pashmina shawl at $275. I notice though that the only thing sold out is the wooden hash box/jewellery box!

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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 19:02:05 (GMT) From: cq Email: None To: hamzen Subject: The 10 to 20 grand a day wasn't only when touring! Message:

As J-M said: 'Like if he comes and stay at his 'residence' in Miami, EV (DLM) US would pay for his expenses, food, cars, etc.' Amazing. And yet EV have the temerity to claim on their website that: 'Elan Vital does not compensate Maharaji financially or in any other way for any services he provides' Oh I get it ... very sneaky, ...very Rawatian. What they're saying is - they don't compensate him for his 'services'. They just compensate him 'cos he tells them to.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 01:28:23 (GMT) From: ham Email: None To: cq Subject: Cq, have you forgotten already, shame on you. Message:

They give it to him cause they love him, and you trying to make out he puts any pressure on his closest pams to put the squeeze on the ones with the money, and put subtle guilt pressure on the low lifes like us, cause if we really loved him, well, well, there'd be proper functioning premie communities wouldn't there. Maharajiji is so innocent, surrounded by incompetence, but then Rawat, sir, your right royal holiness, or whatever it is you think of yourself as, depending on the whim of your moodd, what does THAT say about you.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 19:00:40 (GMT) From: cq Email: None To: ham Subject: Well slap my botty, I quite forgot ... Message:

What I should have said was: 'They give it to him (as it were), because ...' . . . . . because ... . . . . ... got it! . . . ' ... because he doesn't tell them not to!' . . . There. All politically correct now?

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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 16:02:17 (GMT) From: Stonor Email: None To: hamzen Subject: hamzen!!! (OT) Message:

Did you catch my post to you about Maturana? Will be in touch soon - long (tiresome) story.

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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 15:22:37 (GMT) From: TD Email: None To: hamzen Subject: Elan Vital never asks for money, right!!! Message:

All the merchandise from Elan Vital is and has always been so ridiculously expensive. It's like they try and milk every last penny from premies....

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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 08:49:36 (GMT) From: toby Email: None To: Everyone Subject: a big help for premies Message:

so, obviously it is proofed tha m is constantly drinking his head off. So how can a premie stay faithful. I mean knowledge is supposed to fill ones life completely and brings endless happiness, at least it should do to the master. So, of course it can be a lila.But all the time? The solution: m has millions of followers and he is testing with his lila every single one. That takes a lot of bottles and reveals his endless love and selfless sacrifice to the one who knows. no doubts anymore? great

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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 09:45:59 (GMT) From: san Email: - To: toby Subject: a big help for premies Message:

hi toby, doesn't sound like u are happy with the establishment. think i've seen your name before? r u new to being an ex, or been there for awhile?

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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 09:56:17 (GMT) From: toby Email: None To: san Subject: a big help for premies Message:

well i left the cult 8 years ago but i didn't have the time to follow the forum constantly.

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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 10:11:16 (GMT) From: sam Email: - To: toby Subject: help? Message:

only left less than 12 months ago and that was partly thru' finding forum. i was really angry at first and wanted to say my piece. but tend now to just want to get on with life and make up lost ( but not lost) time. good luck humie... regards sivan(sam)

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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 04:30:48 (GMT) From: ebay alert Email: None To: Everyone Subject: magazine Message:

ebay

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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 08:29:16 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: ebay alert Subject: magazine Message:

I'm interested in the old press articles on the 'perfect master', for the ex-premie.org website. Would you save a copy of those, and email them to me ?

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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 09:51:03 (GMT) From: sam Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: magazine Message:

sure u have heaps of what u want. but if not enough, i have lots of mags from 74- 78. intense reading as we all know! i can scan them if anything u can use. regards' sivan(sam)

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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 10:25:47 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: sam Subject: Press articles needed Message:

to have them available in the Press & Media section. What I need: articles' scans, with references. Or originals, by snailmail.

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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 13:03:46 (GMT) From: jondon Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: What is your snail mail address?? (nt) Message:

xdfg

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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 14:17:53 (GMT) From: JKean-Michel Email: None To: jondon Subject: Check your email in a minute ! (nt) Message:

ccc

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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 02:19:57 (GMT) From: La-ex Email: None To: Michael dettmers Subject: Michael Dettmers,the question is below....(NT) Message:

nt

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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 02:18:29 (GMT) From: la-ex Email: None To: Michael Dettmers Subject: another question from Miami, early 80's.... Message:

Michael- I have been puzzled about an incident that occurred in Miami during the early 80's, and was wondering if you could comment on it. A woman from Wash. DC came down to Miami to do service for maharaji...her name was Midge, and she was a bookkeeper, who was offered a job working with m's books... She told a number of friends that at one point she couldn't reconcile a figure in the books....she asked a number of people what the figures referred to...no one could answer her questions, and finally someone said that she should call Michael Dettmers, as he was the one that would know... According to Midge, when she called you and you told her what the money was used for, she became very upset....she went for a long walk on the beach, and had a long talk with herself....it put her through such a crisis of faith, that she didn't think she could continue with the work... She didn't stay much longer,returned to DC, but continued to stay involved with maharaji. She said that what you told her shocked her so much that it changed her pereception of maharaji forever.(Not that you freaked her out, but the information did.) It gave her big doubts, and it took all she had to try and ignore it and stay on the straight and narrow with maharaji. She wouldn't tell any friends what it was, but that it shook her to her roots... Do you remember this incident? Can you tell us what it was all about? I'm not asking you to violate any non-disclosure statements, but is there something you can say about it? Thanks, La-ex

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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 13:27:27 (GMT) From: Michael Dettmers Email: dettmers@gylanix.com To: la-ex Subject: another question from Miami, early 80's.... Message:

la-ex, I'm drawing a blank at the moment. If anyone out there knows anything perhaps it will help jog my memory. If I do remember anything, I'll let you know. Michael

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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 07:34:52 (GMT) From: Tim Miller Email: None To: Michael Dettmers Subject: Midge was fairly tall Message:

I'd say 5'7' and extremely slim. She had brown hair about shoulder length. Very happy go lucky, most always with a smile on her face. She was originally from Washington, DC and was either newly divorced from or still married to a guy named Patrick. Help ring any bells Mikey?

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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 10:08:31 (GMT) From: Michael Dettmers Email: dettmers@gylanix.com To: Tim Miller Subject: Midge was fairly tall Message:

Tim, Yes, I remember Midge, I just don't remember the incident, but I'm working on it. Thanks for your help. Michael

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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 21:47:21 (GMT) From: janet Email: None To: Michael Dettmers et al Subject: from Miami, early 80's.... Message:

If this woman had been looking at the books all day, everyday, the totals were already visible to her. the thing that sent her into shock, and her long soul searching walk alone on the beach was not what she saw in the numbers. the numbers were before her. it apparently was something she did NOT see, in terms of what it went FOR, or what it came FROM, and had to ask about. the fact that it was not labeled, only entered into the figures and computed, is what triggered her asking. and when no one knew, she was told to go to you. Obviously, you must have been able to tell her, given her subsequent behavior. Just speculating on the effect your answer had on her, I am wondering if it might have been crime related. I wonder if it was drug money, either incoming or outgoing. I wonder if it was child support to that reputed illegitimate offspring he allegedly begat. But then again, I know that you have told us that nothing illegal went on during your watch.... can you think of categories of entries that would have been put on the books while intentionally not recording their source, or for what they were spent?? Were there whole sectors of such income and outgo, that were kept unlabeled, but known?? This woman's coming to you might have been a one- time thing, on your memory's side, but then again--she was a bookkeeper, and she was involved in finance, and she left Miami after this realization, so you must have had some awareness of her, in your circles... Can anyone give us a name? or a physical description? or perhaps where she did her service? a place? Something else Michael can connect her to?

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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 03:25:49 (GMT) From: la-ex Email: None To: janet Subject: from Miami, early 80's.... Message:

Janet-a few people have speculated on what it is that the woman might have seen in the books that would have upset her so much... illegal things like drugs would never be entered-they would be entirely off the books... something like an abortion would also obviously be off the books, and be hidden, and performed in some other country... my guess is that it was either some outrageous bill for something like liquor,although that bill would have probably been easy to figure out...or...something like payment for someone's expenses like monica or someone else...

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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 08:58:47 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: la-ex Subject: Simple guess Message:

That person was obviously not X-rated, and I guess what she saw was the usual figures you can see in EV's books. EV does pay for Rawat's private expenses when he's on tour. Like if he comes and stay at his 'residence' in Miami, EV (DLM) US would pay for his expenses, food, cars, etc. Do you have any idea of the figures involved ? I guess she just saw this, something like $10,000 or 20,000 a day. Lots of people would have serious 'doubts' when confronted to these figures. I've seen them in France. Maybe she wouldn't earn in a year what Rawat spends in a day ! And she had probably heard all the satsangs of the people like Yoram asking for money, saying that there is no money left, that m can't go on tour because of the financial situation etc. Like what is the possible justification Yoram pulled out to ask for money to buy the new G V ? The 'old' G IV was already way beyond what's needed to make some conferences here and there .....

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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 19:28:34 (GMT) From: cq Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: '... the usual figures'??? Message:

'... what she saw was the usual figures you can see in EV' books.' You mean amounts like ten thou a day to Rawat is on their books???? Can this be proven, J-M? If so, I know someone who'd like to bring it to the Charity Commission's attention!

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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 08:34:34 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: cq Subject: There is nothing wrong in this ! Message:

mind you !! Every company does this !! EV's managers are not total idiots. There is a limit to these figures, and they don't trespass it.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 19:07:41 (GMT) From: cq Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: There bloody well IS something wrong with it! Message:

and here's why: The Charity Commission,UK freely admits (and says so on their website) that charities are 'favoured by the State'. If money donated by the general public for a particular cause is being siphoned off to benefit the Maha, despite the charity's claims that quote: 'Elan Vital does not compensate Maharaji financially or in any other way for any services he provides', then ... ... pardon me while I go and get apoplectic.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 22:19:13 (GMT) From: Cynthia Email: None To: cq Subject: There bloody well IS something wrong with it! Message:

cq said: If money donated by the general public for a particular cause is being siphoned off to benefit the Maha, despite the charity's claims that quote: 'Elan Vital does not compensate Maharaji financially or in any other way for any services he provides', then ... ... pardon me while I go and get apoplectic. Cynthia replied: Isn't it marvelous that EV needs to make all these ''disclaimers?'' ''We don't do this....we're not responsible for that....no he's not God....blaa blaa blaa...he never said it....no that's not true....'' apoplectic indeed!! Bring on the Depends...

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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 16:57:51 (GMT) From: Jethro Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Simple guess Message:

I know someone who helped organise the 'Rejoice' programs in the mid-80s. She left when she noticed m's expenses. She said that he had hired an entire room, just so he could go an have a smoke.(It was his smoking period).

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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 17:03:40 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Jethro Subject: Simple guess Message:

That's nothing compared to what I've seen with my own eyes !!! Completely refurbished backstage apartments, sometimes just built for the occasion, etc Not to speak of the golden shitters !!

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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 09:59:56 (GMT) From: sam Email: sivan28@yahoo.com To: Jean-Michel Subject: Simple guess Message:

i haven't been involved since last year- but during last year there was a lot of work with Yorum's financial razza-matazz. In amaroo at least. At least 1 or 2 money raising things in aus that year. big secretive, invite only stuff at amaroo. Big bucks to attend. I think one of the things that would amaze EVERYONEis the financial claims on an m tour, or any other m project. he really needs to get a global handle.

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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 18:50:58 (GMT) From: Bongo Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Hijacked Message:

When I went to get K.,all I wanted was some meditation. I got K. by consciously deciding to do whatever was neccessary to impress those who were dispensing it. When I got it I was genuinely stunned and disoriented. In that interim period of totally justified staggering, M slipped in, offering devotion, Master, dedication and god knows what else. I am reminded of those tales of natives when first exposed to the great white hunter's watch, or gun or some such item. They find it incomprehensible,and fall down in religious awe. The four techniques represent a reality regardless of their origins. They do not need superstition weaving around them. They need understanding. It has taken me nearly thirty years to learn this! What a pisser eh?

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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 17:01:13 (GMT) From: Dingo Email: None To: Bongo Subject: Hijacked Message:

Sniff sniff. Ah blubber. Piss piss.

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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 11:00:06 (GMT) From: Bingo Email: None To: Bongo Subject: Hijacked Message:

Bongo, oh bongo How we flaunt our damage shamelessly ! The fingerings and breathings and tonguings you have grown to love Are substitutes. Dont you see how your plans of world domination have been thwarted by the displacement of soft tissue ! A mirth engine will not run on phlegm alone. It needs....other things far too arcane and mysterious to go into here. By promoting/nurturing a Bubble 'within ' us, M has syphened (?) off something or other, and created a vacuum Which is why the satsang rooms were often quite clean. And also why Premies are ever more vacuuous whilst he inflates like a giant pigs bladder baloon. There is great truth in these lines. Mock them at your peril and leisure. Hurrah ! Loafing One

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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 15:57:10 (GMT) From: bongo Email: None To: Bingo Subject: Hijacked Message:

What are you floundering about? Do you attempt to give me advice in some arcane form? Come to the point man! Love and soft things, Bongo

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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 16:39:08 (GMT) From: Way Email: None To: bongo Subject: Hijacked Message:

Bongo, you unfairly criticize Bingo. You started the arcanity. His message, however, is fairly transparent. He is dissing the four techniques and advising you to adopt a more human and wholeness approach to your life. Get it?

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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 23:23:06 (GMT) From: bongo Email: None To: Way Subject: Hijacked Message:

I wrote back, but can't see anything on the forum yet. Perhaps you'll get two. Anyway, thank you for your interpretation. Bongo

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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 10:05:59 (GMT) From: sam Email: None To: Bongo Subject: Hijacked Message:

i wanted the perfect experience of being perfect. given up on that one and i guess where i am is where i am , and if i dont enjoy it--- i miss out. so simple- so complicated and meanwhile, i still got to wash up!lol

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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 06:40:12 (GMT) From: Daneane Email: None To: Bongo Subject: Hijacked Message:

Haven't a clue what the hell you mean.

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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 19:36:02 (GMT) From: Way Email: None To: Bongo Subject: To Bongo Message:

Got any good Bongo stories? p.s. That reality has no need of those four techniques, either.

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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 20:23:56 (GMT) From: Bongo Email: None To: Way Subject: clarification Message:

Dear Way, I am not actually a bongo in the recognised sense of the word. I used the phrase 'represent a reality'. This is not the same as'represent reality'. I don't think the question of what needs what arises. What a thrill it all is, Bongo.

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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 21:10:14 (GMT) From: Way Email: None To: Bongo Subject: clarification Message:

Bongo, Thanks for the semi-clarification. Darn, I was hoping for some stories where you scaled the barbwire, outwitted the security people, and made it into the inner sanctum for an unscheduled hit off the Lord's feet. Your musings about that other 'inner sanctum' are too obscure for further comment, which is probably just as well. Glad you're learning.

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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 19:00:51 (GMT) From: Mongo Email: None To: Bongo Subject: right on Message:

Thanks for your insight and analogy; witty.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 01:48:26 (GMT) From: ham Email: None To: Mongo Subject: He's a peninsula (nt) Message:

z

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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 08:54:05 (GMT) From: Tongo Email: None To: fu Subject: No man is an island, Jack -nt- Message:

nt

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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 17:59:33 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Thanks to everybody here! Message:

I am so, so happy today that it almost feels incredible, but I do believe it because it feels so, so great, and it happened mainly because of what I read in this forum. Even the bad taught me something. Thanks for helping me regain my freedom, especially to Katie and Brian, JM, Gerry, cq, Niegel, Anth, Bill, Hal, AJW, Lotus Eater, G, Scott, Robyn, Helen,Sir Dave, Jerry,Jim, Susan, and very special thanks to Selene and Salam for being my friends!! If I forgot somebody's name, sorry. Love to you all!! SB

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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 19:46:40 (GMT) From: cq Email: None To: SB Subject: If you love somebody ... Message:

... set them free. We'll be waiting (some of us, perhaps)

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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 20:04:12 (GMT) From: sb Email: None To: cq Subject: If you love somebody ... Message:

I love you. Thanks for all your great posts; great service to humanity. Is so good to give, isn't it? Take care, s

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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 20:47:39 (GMT) From: cq Email: None To: sb Subject: There's love and there's love ... Message:

from http://looop.net/funnies/ THE PERFECT DAY The Perfect Day according to: HER 8:45 Wake up to hugs and kisses 9:00 5 pounds lighter on the scale 9:30 Light breakfast 11:00 Sunbathe 12:30 Lunch with best friend at outdoor cafe 1:45 Shopping 2:30 Run into boyfriend's/husband's ex - notice she's gained 30 lbs. 3:00 Manicure, Facial, massage, nap 7:30 Candlelight dinner for two and dancing 10:00 Make slow, sweet, romantic love 11:30 Pillow talk in his big strong arms HIM 10:00 Wake up 10:02 Oral sex 10:10 Big Breakfast 11:30 Drive up coast in Ferrari with gorgeous babe with big hooters 2:15 Enormous lunch 3:15 Oral sex 3:25 Play sports with the guys 4:30 Drink beer with the guys 6:30 Meet Claudia Schiffer 6:40 Oral sex 6:50 Huge dinner, more beer 11:00 Full on, get down, gorilla sex 11:10 Sleep Love to you too, SB!

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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 21:54:27 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: cq Subject: Super. ROFL!! Message:

You are a riot! Love always your humor. More love to you.

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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 19:29:02 (GMT) From: Hal Email: None To: SB Subject: Yeah ! freedom at last SB love ya ! nt Message:

freebird

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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 20:01:51 (GMT) From: sb Email: None To: Hal Subject: I love you bro Message:

It feels glorious to be free, not just say it, but feel it, inside of you, without crutches (lard). The best to you too!!Thanks. Love, s

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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 18:44:46 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: SB Subject: can I have some of whatever you are taking? Message:

Hi SB, wow, how wonderful to read someone feels that way on a beginning of the work week morning. Your friendship means a lot to me too.

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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 18:59:05 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: Selene Subject: can I have some of whatever you are taking? Message:

I feel the same way too; you are such a special, beautiful funny person! I hope we can continue our friendship, even if I never comeback to this forum, thing that may happen. Love, sb

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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 18:33:08 (GMT) From: Robyn Email: None To: SB Subject: Thanks to everybody here! Message:

Dear SB, Was just thinking a lot about you the last couple days, wondering how you were and here you are! :) So glad you are feeling good! Hope life has gotten easier for you. Love, Robyn

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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 18:40:40 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Thanks to everybody here! Message:

Yes, all is so, so nice in my life today. I have been very busy but to tell you the truth, writting to you is in my to do list; have patience ;). I'll explain more by email.I hope all is good with you too! Is it? Love, sb

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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 02:36:06 (GMT) From: Robyn Email: None To: SB Subject: Thanks to everybody here! Message:

Dear SB, 'I'll explain more by email.I hope all is good with you too! Is it?' Not so good but there are very good things too. When I hear from you I'll tell you more. Love, Robyn

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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 04:34:35 (GMT) From: bill Email: bburke@rocketmail.com To: Robyn Subject: Thanks to everybody here! Message:

Thanks to you SB, What a nice thread. I dont go to my email much, but I do respond.

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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 18:03:14 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: SB Subject: Have you been on that weed again?....nt Message:

nt

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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 21:57:46 (GMT) From: sb Email: None To: Salam Subject: You are silly :000 :0000 :)))))) nt Message:

hahahahaha

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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 18:09:46 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: Salam Subject: Which one??? nt Message:

What?

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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 01:42:33 (GMT) From: ham Email: None To: SB Subject: Did someone say there was some weed around? Message:

mixed with some quality hash if anyones got some, Hi sb, good to see your smile around again, like you I will be e-mailing soon, methinks I owe you a tape too

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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 05:19:53 (GMT) From: Robyn Email: None To: ham Subject: Did someone say there was some weed around? Message:

me :)

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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 03:41:46 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: ham Subject: You guys are nuts Message:

I feel so bad that I forgot you!!! I told you about emails...Too many changes. I'll write soon...er or later. hahahaha... They are the fallen angels. WE WON!

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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 02:07:28 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: ham Subject: you are in your head. Message:

The weed we're talking about was accidently discovered up Kabir's rectum. Read more in the thread below (with AJW).

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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 14:06:59 (GMT) From: ham Email: None To: Salam Subject: Who're you cxalling in their head,eh?? Message:

I might have guessed anth would be there, you can smell it right down the hall you know. I don't know what the world's coming to.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 03:43:47 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: Salam Subject: WHICH THREAD? Message:

I don't have all day hahahahahaha FULL MOON

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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 04:19:33 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: SB Subject: WHICH THREAD? Message:

Count 8 threads below under Steve Quint -:- Weed-Watch Of The Week -:- Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 19:30:20

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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 15:38:01 (GMT) From: TD Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Observation about discussions on Constitution (OT) Message:

I know everyone's probably jacked of talking about the election and recount etc, but I just wanted to discuss a bit about the discussions now going on about the Constitution etc.... One of the things I have noticed from listening to the news is this recurring topic about the American Constitution and this constant reinforcing of how 'it works' and how much faith everyone has in it, and I even heard one guy saying about America being the greatest democracy on earth (I must admit I have a problem with this claim, as I don't believe any country is a true democracy and I think any claims that your politicians are truly representative of the people, is dubious considering only about half your eligible voting population actually shows up .... ) Throughout this whole Florida recount issue, there seems to be this constant reinforcing about, despite the mess, how 'untouchable' the Constitution is, how 'it works', etc etc. Do you think that whenever something like this electoral crisis happens here, there is some sort of denial or fear that maybe the American Constitution isn't what it's all cracked up to be - hence the constant discussion about it? (nb. I'm not making any comparisons with other country's constitutions - and at least your Constitution resides in your own country, not like Oz's which is still housed in London - ha-ha!). I just find it fascinating how the American Constitution is put on so high a pedestal, and there seems to be a reluctance to diss it. Is this just my observation? What do you American exes think? Oh yeah, Maharaji's a corrupt bastard.

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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 12:38:21 (GMT) From: Scott T. Email: None To: TD Subject: Observation about discussions on Constitution (OT) Message:

TD: The US has the Constitution, and England has it's monarchs. They serve the some of the same purposes, to preserve stabiiity during transfers of power between competing elites. The alternative is, frankly, meltdown. According to Paul Kahn, who wrote a book attempting to find a consistent argument for accepting the Constitution as valid and binding, we should not look too closely at it's legitimacy, because we'll find that things are pretty shaky. All the same, the system of rights that it spells out are critical. So there is a good reason for honoring it on it's own merits. If we ever manage to produce a wise population we can dispense with it, and govern the country through a direct democracy. --Scott

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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 14:28:25 (GMT) From: JohnT Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: Observation about discussions on Constitution (OT) Message:

Pardon my jest Scott, but it is not so much that England has Monarchs -- rather it is Monarchs that have an English Kingdom and English subjects. Damned undignified, if you ask me (but they won't). Seriously, there is a British Constitution -- it may be studied, for example, thro' school or University courses. But it is not codified into a document (or even all written down), which makes it difficult to consult and argue about. One thing the British Constitution does say (at least, so people seem to agree) is that what is not forbidden is allowed -- unless something has been explicitly legislated against, it may lawfully be done. I understand that in countries which enjoy a written constitution, even the otherwise lawful activities of the legislature may be ruled unconstitutional and so be disallowed. Incidently, the European Convention on Human Rights has recently been codified into English Law, giving us some documentary constitutional protection of that sort which has long been enjoyed by citizens in other countries. A Good Idea, no doubt. I just hope it does not cause us to lose sight of the fact that our freedoms are founded on the struggles of our forebears, and preserved by our own willingness to fight in our turn... 'The price of freedom is eternal vigilance'.

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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 15:49:45 (GMT) From: Scott T. Email: None To: JohnT Subject: Observation about discussions on Constitution (OT) Message:

John: I agree that a Constitution also has the function of codifying rights and obligations, and I *almost* pointed out that England *does* have an unwritten Constitution contained in precedent, or 'stare decisis.' But the function of a monarch in a 'Constitutional Monarchy' is to maintain the legitimacy of the state during periods of crisis for different administrations. As Martin Lipset has observed, since the US has no Constitutional Monarch our written constitution serves that purpose. Martin also suggested that one way to tone down some of the political strife in the Balkans would be to bring back some of the Monarchs to establish Constitutional Monarchies in those countries. --Scott

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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 16:11:08 (GMT) From: Scott T. Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: Stare Decisis (OT) Message:

Good article on the principle of Stare Decisis and Judicial Jurisdiction for lay persons. This could be critical in the legal maneuverings over the next few days. http://www.lawlib.uh.edu/guides/jelyfish.html

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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 08:52:40 (GMT) From: a0aji Email: None To: TD Subject: Observation about discussions on Constitution (OT) Message:

Most people have no special knowledge of Constitutional law and so, any plebeian argument that can successfully cite the Constitution is usually given as the end-all. Often it will succeed, if it goes unchallenged; often it does! Ergo its utility. :) I think Americans are rightfully proud of the Constitution, but I don't think the document itself is what is held as sacred. To me, what is held as sacred are the events of history that led to its adoption. All the history of Law based on the Constitution -- the process of coming by those decisions -- that is held sacred; many feel it separates us from anarchy or tyrrany or some other abstract evil :) The Electoral College is an amazing structure that delivers what it was designed to deliver: a distribution of power, State by State. It will never be done away with, so long as there are many small states. Talk of doing away with the Electoral College is usually perilously misinformed.

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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 00:44:53 (GMT) From: G Email: None To: TD Subject: Constitution (OT) Message:

People sometimes talk about how the Constitution is 'untouchable' and 'sacred' when their interpretation of part of it supports their position. They say these things even though there are 27 amendments to the Constitution (first 10 are the Bill of Rights). Some of the talk about it sounds almost religious, I think it's strange. Some people want to think it's 'perfect', whatever that's supposed to mean. The United States is actually a democratically elected republic and is less of a democracy than other countries. Besides only half of eligible voters voting, not everyone can vote.

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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 18:13:32 (GMT) From: Cynthia Email: None To: TD Subject: Observation about discussions on Constitution (OT) Message:

Hi TD, I'm no US Constitution scholar but I believe the Constitution and it's amendments, bill of rights do have some serious flaws. It's very difficult to make any changes to it. First, 2/3 of the Congress/Senate have to approve any proposed changes. THEN, 3/4 (I think, someone correct me if I'm wrong it could also be 2/3) of the 50 states must also approve the change. That how the ERA (Equal Rights Amendment) was shot down--it was a political thing. Scholars of the constitution have many different interpretations which leads to very muddy waters. Besides, if a case is brought to the U.S. Supreme Court which requests a judgment or opinion, the resulting opinions are based on the views of the Justices, who have a lifetime appointment. (That's another thing I'd like to see changed in some way). They're political appointees, why be lifers? That's why parts of the Constitution render it a subjective document rather than one which clearly outlines the rights of the people. Yet we are taught it is a sacred document. The electoral college as far as I'm concerned is no longer needed. Yet I've heard that every year someone in the Congress or Senate tries to propose a change to repeal it. There's no reason for us, in this day and age not to go with a popular vote. Some uniformity in ballots might help with that, too. I'm very weary of the whole thing. When I turn on CNN, I watch for a few minutes, get sick to my stomach and turn it off! There are so many opinions of the current situation, and interpretations of what is constitutional in this election. Yuck, already!!! No legal scholar, Cynthia

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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 15:16:05 (GMT) From: TD Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Observation about discussions on Constitution (OT) Message:

Thanks everyone for your points here. It's made me understand a bit more about it and the attitude towards it. It's not so much the Constitution as a legal document, but more what it represents and the way it came about through history. Actually, using a popular culture example, I think the film The People vs Larry Flynt probably illustrated that very well - in that the Constitutional Amendment was used to save more than just a porn mag, but free speech, which in that case conflicted so much with the Christian ideology which is so dominant here. It's almost like you need the American Constitution to protect you all from each other, as opposed to protect the US from the rest of the world .... I think so many countries are dealing with outdated archaic systems based on 100 or more years ago, hence things like the electoral vote now seeming redundant. But there is this hesitancy to change which I can't understand. The fact that Australia didn't choose to become a Republic this year still astounds me to this day - but it was fear of change that did it. One thing I have wondered is why countries are still run by politicians now, when countries really have become far more like corporations themselves existing in a competitive marketplace, and should have people who are at least qualified in the area that they're looking after. The political advisor has probably more influence on what happens in a particular area, and yet often we don't even know who they are. I don't know if in the US it is like this, but our MPs swap and change portfolios regardless of their experience. One minute they're Minister for Defence. The next minute they're Minister for the Environment. I don't know of a Federal Treasurer that we've had that has ever had even a minimal accounting degree. Anyway thanks again for your input on this....

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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 15:53:20 (GMT) From: Scott T. Email: None To: TD Subject: Observation about discussions on Constitution (OT) Message:

TD: It's almost like you need the American Constitution to protect you all from each other, as opposed to protect the US from the rest of the world .... That is exactly what a constitution does. The classic image is Ulysses tied to the mast. He wanted to hear the song of the sirens, but did not want to be seduced by them. --Scott

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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 01:16:31 (GMT) From: Ben Lurking Email: None To: Cynthia Subject: Observation about discussions on Constitution (OT) Message:

Supreme court justices are lifetime so they do not have to worry about being influenced by politics or being re-elected or appointed. Many justices have gone their own way once appointed. Part of the strength of states rights lies in the requirements for amendments to the constitution. If you want a simple majority then lets eliminate state and local governments, that is the effective result of making every state ruled by a national vote. It is an imperfect document but it is written to force slow change and co-operation or consent.

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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 13:05:41 (GMT) From: toby Email: None To: jean-michel Subject: matthias bretscher Message:

dear jean-michel, do you remember the initiator matthias bretscher from switzerland,? i have received 'knowledge' in 1977 from him and i know he lost m's good will after an aspirant did actually cut off his right hand in munic making him responsible for not having recognized the aspirants situation. i have found a web page http://bodyworks.ch/Matthias/ and i can't really figure out because of the loss of hair if this is really 'our' matthias. And if he is, he definitly has forgotten the hamster in his curriculum can you check? thanks toby

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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 08:31:15 (GMT) From: janet Email: None To: toby and all Subject: matthias bretscher's site and email... Message:

i went to the site. i clicked on 'contact us'. a letter drafted to them. i penned him a reason to come here , read up and speak with us. the letter came back as unable to be delivered. anyone know what country the code '.ch' stands for on internet routing? i forwarded the unsuccessful return to the postmaster of my isp. do we have another recourse?

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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 09:33:53 (GMT) From: toby Email: None To: janet Subject: matthias bretscher's site and email... Message:

ch stands for switzerland i have just made the same experience with my mail i have mailed before yesterday and it worked but no answer. my sending to the forum does not appear also. Looks like panic. But matthias has some degrees concerning his work at different orgnisations. We can inform them. Also if you take www.google.com and insert matthias bretscher you will find some articles in the swiss news. They surely will be interested in such a background that Matthias has

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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 20:09:46 (GMT) From: Nigel Email: None To: toby Subject: Vielleicht man schreibt ihm.? Message:

(excuse my rusty German!) Toby, it looks like a positive identification. As a native German speaker, how would you feel about emailing the site and enquiring whether Matthias is a former initiator of M's? Or maybe ask something on the site's forum: http://bodyworks.ch/forum/ (Where's Willi Kranz when you need him..?)

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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 15:16:49 (GMT) From: Jethro Email: None To: toby Subject: matthias bretscher Message:

I once drove Matthias and Jagdeo together, Mattias put his hands over my eyes whilst I was driving, saying that I should have faith in gmj that I wouldn't crash. What an arshole. Jethro PS I peeeped between his fingers!

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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 14:22:16 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: toby Subject: Yes that's him ! no doubt Message:

He was a very nice guy IMO, not honcho type. Good he's out of Rawat system, if he's out ...

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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 19:24:35 (GMT) From: Nigel Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk To: Jean-Michel Subject: I agree it looks just like him... Message:

..and, if so, he's another one lying on his CV, given he was a full-timer for M through the late seventies. Matthias was the first initiator to 'reject' me. Now I see who the real reject was. I say 'if so' guardedly - since he's lost a lot of hair, put on weight and grown some holy man fungus on his chin since I last saw him. Still selling bullshit by the look of it.

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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 13:24:49 (GMT) From: Hal Email: None To: toby Subject: matthias bretscher Message:

Hi Toby, I can confirm that this is the same guy. He stayed in our ashram a few times. He was always a fanatic and he used to make people who were in his nollij sessions meditate for hours without a baragon and told them to ignore the pain! He also liked to check that we had on the best quality silk ties to go for darshan. What a fucking nutter he was ! Hal

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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 19:34:34 (GMT) From: Nigel Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk To: Hal Subject: matthias bretscher Message:

One story that did the rounds when we were premies was of the Knowledge session Matthias was giving when a call came through that his mother was dying, could he come to the phone immediately as he might never see her alive again..? Matthias flipped out for being interrupted and said 'I am doing important work for the Lord' and refused to leave the K session. (Apparently he made contact later and was able to make it home - By His Grace - to Mutti's bedside in the nick of time. Ain't Maharaji miraculous?)

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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 13:35:23 (GMT) From: toby Email: None To: Hal Subject: matthias bretscher Message:

so i am right, i also remember that he gave an aspirant knowledge who had to take psychopharmaka and told him to do without it. I remember the satsang evening when they draged him out and brought him to the psychartry. Not the only case that I remember

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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 14:16:25 (GMT) From: EddyTheTurtle Email: None To: toby Subject: matthias bretscher Message:

toby...where are u from...are you the Toby from London that I knew once.....last time I met this toby was near Chalk farm Tube station ... Anyway this matthias jerk from ch does not surprise me...most german and swiss premies where pretty fanatical..what you are describing..forget about the pain...forget about the baragon...sounds about right...

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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 06:16:30 (GMT) From: 411 Email: None To: EddyTheTurtle Subject: toby Message:

No your thinking of toby tomson. He's still in chalk farm and active. is head of event security I hear.

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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 14:25:50 (GMT) From: EddyTheTurtle Email: None To: 411 Subject: Thanks 411..Thats the one ...Big Toby Message:

nt

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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 19:24:03 (GMT) From: Buzz Email: None To: EddyTheTurtle Subject: matthias bretscher Message:

Hi Eddy, Was the Toby you met a hairdresser originally from Canada?

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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 15:12:20 (GMT) From: toby Email: None To: EddyTheTurtle Subject: matthias bretscher Message:

no i am sorry i am not from london i was one of the very fanatical devotees in germany. this forum lacks of german exes so it seems i know many of them are still engaged and making businesses as the kind of matthias does i think why not confront matthias with the past he has given a lot of premies a very hard time. no mercy, no compassion whatsoever, and now he is 'healing' people how does it fit? i will mail him definitely

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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 15:54:35 (GMT) From: EddyTheTurtle Email: None To: toby Subject: matthias bretscher Message:

Ja haben Sie Recht. Sie müssen schreiben Matthias und ihn nach diesen Sachen fragen.

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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 09:35:23 (GMT) From: toby Email: None To: EddyTheTurtle Subject: matthias bretscher Message:

i have tried to mail but his local mail host doesnot accept my mailserver. I have also tried to write to his forum but it nothing apears on the site.That's quite mysterious. Do you rembember: 'When Guru Maharaji hides his devotees hide with him'? I think this could be very well be Matthias' intention. And as I have experienced, those who are still with him anxiously play the game of not being discoverd. They lie about the past, because it is agya, maybe there is the concept behind , that if M asks this of you, all the past will be wiped out and you can start from new. I remember in the beginning of the 90ties Rajaji was touring and giving strange examples about truth like: 'when itis day and I say it's night, it is also true because on the other side of the earth it is still day.' I didn't undrstand it at that time why he was trying to relativate such things. But now I know that it was a part of the campaign to make the premies professional liars and to corrupt their characters which partially worked pretty well.

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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 15:24:11 (GMT) From: Stonor Email: None To: toby Subject: 'when it is day and I say it's night' Message:

'when it is day and I say it's night, it is also true because on the other side of the earth it is still day.' I didn't undrstand it at that time why he was trying to relativate such things. But now I know that it was a part of the campaign to make the premies professional liars and to corrupt their characters which partially worked pretty well. Fascinating ... thanks!

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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 10:14:23 (GMT) From: toby Email: None To: toby Subject: matthias bretscher site Message:

so mattthias is not just a memeber of the domain bodyworks.ch he owns it. See the nic excerption below: Query: Return to nic.com registration page Initial server used for this query: whois.nic.ch whois: This information is subject to an Acceptable Use Policy. See http://www.nic.ch/terms/aup.html Domain name: bodyworks.ch Holder of domain name: BodyWork Matthias Georg Bretscher Rennweg 22 CH-8001 Zürich Switzerland Technical contact: A-Z-Internet Hans Landau Rotachstrasse 8 CH-8003 Zürich Switzerland Name servers: ns21.internetroot.com ns22.internetroot.com Date of last registration: 22.02.2000 Date of last modification: 03.11.2000 ------------------------------ Information supplied by the registry queried, nic.com makes no warranty or representation of accuracy.Your host has visited 1 times today. That may explain the quick shutdown of the mailserver and the 'mindcontrol' of sendings to the forum

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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 12:44:17 (GMT) From: Sir Dave Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Now The Truth has a search engine Message:

The Truth about Maharaji search engine

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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 00:44:42 (GMT) From: DV Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: Now The Truth has a search engine Message:

Excellent! I'm e-mailing the link to p's right now!

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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 14:54:54 (GMT) From: Sir Dave Email: None To: DV Subject: Good - that's what it's for (nt) Message:

x

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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 22:25:03 (GMT) From: emile Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: what a load!!! Message:

wow, you guys are really getting good at misinforming people about Maharaji and his work. ever wonder why you might have ten to fifty people who think like you do and Maharaji might have several hundred thousand who believe in him and what he teaches. i really think so many of you should be in politics with those special skills of twisting the truth that you've learned.

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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 22:23:33 (GMT) From: Nigel Email: None To: emile Subject: what a load!!! Message:

From reliable estimates, 90% of people who ever received 'Knowledge' no longer practice. YOU are in the minority, indisputably so. What you are reading on the ex-sites are FACTS. If you think you know better, Emile, please point out the errors. Thanks. It is in nobody's interests for lies to be told about Maharaji. Anyway, the truth will more than suffice to guarantee his eventual downfall. Get used to it.

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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 21:51:41 (GMT) From: Cynthia Email: None To: emile Subject: Gee, emile, where'd you get your numbers? Message:

emile said: wow, you guys are really getting good at misinforming people about Maharaji and his work. ever wonder why you might have ten to fifty people who think like you do and Maharaji might have several hundred thousand who believe in him and what he teaches. i really think so many of you should be in politics with those special skills of twisting the truth that you've learned. Cynthia replied: Wow, emile, how long have you been reading this site? And where did you get your numbers? Are you jealous that we are free to speak without the censorship of your GURU who consistently has lied to all of us over the years? Or are you afraid of the truth? How much do you donate to Maharaji's coffers each year (including going to programs)? Did you know he has a new $7 million yacht (of course for propagation)? Is he your LORD? When did you go into the cult? You do know it is a cult. Hundreds of thousands. HAH! You must have been reading one of Maharaji's websites....that's where the real lies are. Come on back, if you have the courage. Cynthia

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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 23:09:16 (GMT) From: Sir Dave Email: None To: emile Subject: Flattery will get you everywhere Message:

Thanks for the compliments, Emile. So which part of my site isn't true? I'll take any untruths down immediately.

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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 16:26:50 (GMT) From: bill Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: Now The Truth has a search engine Message:

Greetings Sir David! Your knights sword cuts deep. If I was 'guess who', I would rewrite the anne johnson piece just a little. Instead of saying she was fired because of 'fanatical devotion' (which makes it seem like that was HER fault), she was only listening and following the clear direction of the one who was the almightly lord in person. She was fired because rawat would not come clean with her that he was not in fact what he had so adamently told us with his crown on. You know all this of course.

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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 23:13:54 (GMT) From: Sir Dave Email: None To: bill Subject: Now The Truth has a search engine Message:

Rawat messed with her head big time. She still believes he's the lord of the universe and that he only smokes cigarretes to prevent him leaving his body. I could add a bit of sub text to the post you mentioned. Thanks for ponting it out.

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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 04:19:04 (GMT) From: bill Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: Now The Truth has a search engine Message:

Hi again Sir David, After all the struggle, it is good to see a close pam like MD come here. Did you get the recent mailing from elan? Ill have to post it in a thread. Tomorrow I guess.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 14:56:20 (GMT) From: Sir Dave Email: None To: bill Subject: Now The Truth has a search engine Message:

I didn't but I think it's on Jean-Michel's site.

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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 12:58:57 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: Good job Message:

does it search the meta tags, or does it search the documents ?[It looks like it searches the document]

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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 23:15:08 (GMT) From: Sir Dave Email: None To: Salam Subject: Good job Message:

Yes, it searches on every word in every page on the site.

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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 12:32:29 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: Everyone Subject: It's all in the family Message:

Some reading of The Hans Jayanti 'conference', bah. From ELK: New Delhi, 8 November 2000 Things were rocking this afternoon on the final day of Hans Jayanti 2000. It was an event filled with music, culminating in a duet with Maharaji and Dayalata. Amidst virtuoso performances and more East-West fusion there was a strong and vital focus on the nature and need for a master. Maharaji talked with passion about the role of the master. He stated that the master was only significant for people when they felt a need for Knowledge. But first the MC had welcomed the crowd on the actual anniversary of Sri Hans Ji Maharaj's birthday. Sri Maharaj Ji's love of music is well known and she said that we would this afternoon witness one of India's living musical legends, Ustad Bismillah Khan, a master of the sahanai, an instruments which sounds like a reedy saxophone. She said he had played for Sri Maharaj Ji and that he could melt stone with his music. And she was not far wrong. Maharaji acknowledged his totally absorbing performance with a namaste greeting and later commented that the effortless performance of the astonishing tabla player could only have come from years of practice. Bismillah Khan's soaring, swirling music rose to compelling crescendos and then veered magically away into heart-searing lyricism. To put a name on it would be an injustice - but Indian jazz might be as close as you would get. Charananand, well known as Maharaji's first ambassador to the West, addressed the crowd drawn from 58 nations around the globe: 'In my life, I have observed that all human beings are the same, whether they are Hindu, Muslim, Sikh or Christian. And what is important is that in this human life you can experience Knowledge. Sri Maharaj Ji and Maharaji both delivered this message.' Charananand was singing as well as speaking and joined the international band as a back-up vocalist. Dayalata sang on stage and led a version of 'Downpour of the holy name' that joined the assembled musicians into an almost orchestra-sized ensemble - with the rock band alternating with the Indian musicians who in turn gave way to a chorus of Indian female singers. Maharaji noted the significance of the his father's anniversary pointing out what a rare and precious occasion it actually was. He went on to observe with irony that both the words 'guru' and 'master' have been devalued, moving into everyday speech. Flying into Indian airspace, he said he had heard pilots addressing each other as: 'guru ji'. He told a story about a family, in which all family members but the husband had Knowledge. He was illustrating the point that it is only when you see the need and importance of the master that a relationship with him has any meaning. The husband, in question - and Maharaji jokingly remarked that it was a 'fictitious family' - resented the connection the rest of his family had with their master. That is until he was put into a situation where his life hung in the balance and he needed the master's help. At that point he was more than happy to acknowledge his importance. He spoke of the transformation that ensues when a person focuses on the goal of life. It is all too easy, he said, to pat yourself on the back when things seem to be going well, but cautioned how suddenly the picture can change when fortunes are reversed. As human beings we all need support in our lives. He pointed out that as we grow up, this is provided by our family. But there comes a point in our lives when we need to fill an emptiness we feel inside. He encouraged his audience to know and recognise that there is a power and strength that resides in the heart. And that the quest to experience this has always been acknowledged by saints and masters. Their message has always been that we should fulfil our lives and that it is possible for everyone to find the heaven within that they are seeking. Maharaji used the metaphor of lighting a lamp within oneself to illustrate the powerful transformation that happens to someone seeking to fulfil their life. He described how his own father, Sri Hans Ji Maharaj, had talked of his search for fulfilment. Sri Maharaj Ji had searched and searched so much, and he had studied the scriptures, such as the Bhagavad Gita, and travelled all over but had not been able to find anyone able to enlighten him, until he received Knowledge from his master. Then he said: 'Now I experience what I was never able to understand before.' Maharaji described how Sri Maharaj Ji had had so much trust in his master, but this was the trust of experience not a blind faith. He talked of the effort and planning that had gone into the preparations for Hans Jayanti, emphasising the need to take good care of all those who attend events. He said he had suggested more frequent and smaller programmes. And this new strategy would start with his upcoming visit to Nepal later this month, and would continue into the new year here at Sri Sant Yogashram in February. That the audience gathered today at the ashram was 90,000 strong was significant, he said, because that is the number of people that are currently waiting around the world to receive Knowledge. He said there was a need to train people [ is he looking to hire initiators again] to give support to this level of interest in his teachings, and that it wasn't just his effort that was required, but the audience's too. Promising that more entertainment was to follow, Maharaji left the stage. He returned soon after with Dayalata, saying that she was the singer, not him. But he actually proved that singing runs in the family as they both led the audience in a wonderful serenade. It was another of those Maharaji evenings, which could have gone on forever. But when it ended, it went out in pyrotechnic style -a sky-filling explosion of fireworks. Bang, beats the crap out of the Sydney Olympics ceremony. Bunch of morons. Anyone knows what is his wife up to? What about Pufftaji [rajaji] and the rest of the little maggots?

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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 10:15:37 (GMT) From: Tim Miller Email: None To: Salam Subject: No one amswered the ? Where is Message:

the wife and his other 3 children? Did she really recover from the aneurysm? Maybe Marolyn got to see the whole picture and realizes that M is a fraud!

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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 15:51:32 (GMT) From: The Dolphin Email: None To: Salam Subject: It's all in the family Message:

Hi: You said that Salam is your true name , I want to ask you: are you ABDUS SALAM who worked with STEVEN WEIMBERG in the Imperial College of London?, or somebody of his family? You forget the esence of the message : ENJOY . And like the temple's Hindu the devotion has a limit: when you give devotion don't try to recover it , it was devoured. The Dolphin (I am't a mushroom).

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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 19:41:29 (GMT) From: cq Email: None To: The Dolphin Subject: Like taking candy from a baby Message:

Excuse me, Salam and Mr (or Mrs?) Dolphin, but I couldn't help but notice this: 'You forget the esence of the message : ENJOY' says The Dolphin. Ah, yes, that is what Maharaji appears to be saying. Enjoy life, enjoy the opportunity that is life, and enjoy yourself enjoying the opportunity that is life. Amazing isn't it. . . . . . What's amazing is how he first convinces people that they've forgotten how to enjoy life. Then he tells them that they can start enjoying it again simply by remembering their breath. Amazing! And to think that just telling people that can get him ... a multi-million mansion in Malibu, ... a top-of-the-range private jet, ... his own mega-buck studio, ... a fleet of the world's most expensive cars, ... ... . . . . . . . Oh, I forgot, there must be more to it. There is more to it, isn't there, Dolphin? Care to remind me?

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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 02:31:48 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: cq Subject: Dolphin: no I am not ABDUS Salam Message:

cq I do not know what this character is talking about. He/she appears to be confused. Hesho (short for he/she. My language) criticizes blubber then he does a shiffty and enters from the back door saying things like the message is enjoy. I do not know what am I supposed to be enjoying. In fact I hate it when people tell me to enjoy when I do not want to enjoy. And when it come to blubber, I certainly do not enjoy enjoying enjoyment. I am a dickhead and I WANT TO BE THAT WAY, GOT IT El Dolphin.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 02:46:44 (GMT) From: The Dolphin Email: None To: Salam Subject: OK, Salam (nt) Message:

nt

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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 19:42:55 (GMT) From: cq Email: None To: Salam Subject: East-West fusion? Message:

I thought the Hindu stuff was all outdated 'baggage' in the Maha's eyes? So he now states that he's of the opinion that '... the master was only significant for people when they felt a need for Knowledge' What he forgets to mention is that, in the real world, masters of their subject do not demand unending devotion from their students. If this so-called 'knowledge' requires a seeker to spend the rest of their life in subservience to the 'master's' view of life, then it CAN'T be worth studying. Such a price is far too great. It's not knowledge. It's indoctrination (at least, in the Maha's package it is). A true teacher would rather his/her students progress AWAY from any dependency on the teacher. How many original thinkers has the Maha's teaching produced? Judging by the worryingly conformist posts at ELK, no original thinkers at all. Just unoriginal re-gurgitators who parrot his spiel as if they didn't have a mind of their own. And Dayalata singing a song called 'Downpour of the holy name' Holy name? So the 'Hindu baggage' is creeping back in again is it? Must make for better donations in India.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 02:52:40 (GMT) From: The Dolphin Email: None To: cq Subject: LOL Message:

Liberty Or Liberty

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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 16:42:10 (GMT) From: bill Email: None To: Salam Subject: that would be the Sadler family of conn. Message:

So, 'it is possible to find the heaven within'? Why cant his own mother and brothers find it? How come he himself hasnt been able to locate the address? It is all to ugly and familiar. There is no self aware oneness, just the master, who like the lucky sperm, has entered the cosmic egg and only his form, his tail, sticks out as a guide to all us. But of course, like the sperm, only the master actually gets to merge, we just 'try' and 'get reminded'. I know that family. They live in connecticut. They are the Sadlers. Adrienne, Joan, and Baryl. thier mom, and now their dad.

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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 17:38:37 (GMT) From: Cynthia Email: None To: bill Subject: I know the Sadlers too. (nt) Message:

nt

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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 08:25:22 (GMT) From: Dorothy Email: None To: Everyone Subject: DingDong the wick'd witch is dead... Message:

now that jim has seekin'his silence. who's next. MD? hey Mr.Mike ? You still haven't told us what it was like, how it felt, to dress up as Santa that merry CHRISTmas. was it fun ? or was it ? just finance.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 07:38:52 (GMT) From: Tim Miller Email: None To: Dorothy Subject: The SOB will be back soon enough nt Message:

nt

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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 05:34:31 (GMT) From: Blue Max Email: None To: Everyone Subject: I came across this tonight Message:

From the Tibetan Dhammapada.. 'Better to eat A piece of food like molten iron than to eat alms from the public As a hypocrite not keeping vows. If you are scared of misery and if you do not relish pain Do not do secretly or openly What wicked people do. If you have done something wrong Or are involved in wrong And run away hoping to hide the fact, It is no use; there is no escape. There exists no place at all But what you have done will follow you: In the oceans, through the skies, Or far off in mountain caves.' But on the other hand... 'There being no other path than this To purify wrong view of self Stay well in stabilization And throw off the demon's bonds. This true surpassing single way Like a swan's unwavering flight onto a lake, The Buddha realized in equipoise And explained repeatedly to groups. The One who knows the end of birth and death, The Helper, out of love, teaches This single path by which all the waters Were and will be and are being crossed. He who sees all teaches well this path For the final stage, peace and purity, To end the round of birth and death And give full Knowledge in all spheres.' If only he kept the promise... Blue Max

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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 22:13:35 (GMT) From: Cynthia Email: None To: Blue Max Subject: I came across this tonight...so sad... Message:

Hi Blue Max, It's so sad that M didn't keep his promise. I had such hope for him and put forth so much effort at his request to obey his wishes, his agya. It's so sad to realize that the one I loved the most turned out to be a charlatan, a fraud, a hypocrite. A betrayer of the most insidious kind. Yet, I have the hope of a better life having learned thus far what I have learned. Maharaji took so much from me, yet, that 'so much' is what I will reclaim for myself. I think in essence that is the benefit of speaking to eachother here, (however limited virtual space can be), as humans who were duped, brainwashed, and worst, preyed upon at our most vulnerable times. BUT...we have the power to see his masks and release and remove ourselves from his grip. We have become strong and fearless. I have far less to lose than goomraji! I reclaim my life, my spirituality, my self. He no longer has any power over me. That, is the happy news. Be well, Cynthia

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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 06:27:00 (GMT) From: Blue Max Email: None To: Cynthia Subject: Cynthia, a few thoughts Message:

Cynthia, Thank you for sharing your true spirit. I am still putting it all in perspective myself and am weilding my old friend, the philosophical knife, which served me well in the early days of '72. I came as a thief in the night to him and stole the techniques essencially, working with them as advertised, trimming away what I saw as non-productive. Maybe it was not the most honest thing to do but the results are tangible evidence that at least the meditational aspects worked. My life was a mess in those days and without that inner work I would most likely still be there. Can't really say for sure but in Destiny's mirror, it looks that way. There is an inner clarity that serves well, especially now that clarity is the one thing that is most necessary in this time of very serious inquiry. We are all coming to True Love again, I just know it.. What a time to be alive; to be truly human! Blue Max

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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 16:17:41 (GMT) From: bill Email: None To: Blue Max Subject: buddha makes a poor flight navigator Message:

The tibetian writer was of course deluded himself by the buddha on this subject. 'to purify wrong view of self' is code for the poorly researched theory on life that the mispercieving so called buddha foisted on that part of the world. There was no one handy to wake him up or do a peer review of his thinking before it was passed around as reality.

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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 17:51:49 (GMT) From: Blue Max Email: None To: bill Subject: buddha makes a poor flight navigator Message:

Bill, So is nothing sacred? Or is the sacred nothing?? Blue Max

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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 04:14:17 (GMT) From: bill Email: None To: Blue Max Subject: buddha makes a poor flight navigator Message:

Hello Blue Max, Point is, that whatever the real deal is with the reality question, we can eliminate the so called buddha's ideas as faulty and the result of poor thinking and ignorance and delusion. He deserves no ones attention and all those that speak from the system of ideas he started are off the mark and slant whatever truisms they might see with his distortion field. Our very own lord rawat is actually based on the same misperception of life. Although seeing the connection isnt obvious at first glance perhaps. What definition you have of sacred is yours to create. No matter what definitions we choose, things are the way they are and getting past the human two cents on the issue of reality is the real challenge! It is a thick soup of ideas we all are shareing at least in the subjects of religion and philosophy. Anyone wanting to sort through it here on the forum can find this place a real help.

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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 06:31:43 (GMT) From: Blue Max Email: None To: bill Subject: buddha makes a good ATC Message:

Bill, Flight navigator, maybe..But as Air Traffic Control he's not that bad. Clear and to the point! Just my opinion. Blue Max

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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 02:00:36 (GMT) From: bill Email: None To: Blue Max Subject: You are uninformed on the topic. Message:

Hi Blue Max, Since you think that, I will post a thread that shows you what the guy said in his life.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 12:11:55 (GMT) From: Blue Max Email: None To: bill Subject: Bill, why the long face? Message:

Bill, He seemed to pretty much throw the whole guru/religion/worldly trip out the window much like yourself. He chucked it and discovered the essense on his own (see Tree). Is your problem that he decided to pass a few tips around? With the chronic ability of people to create a religion out of anything (see Clinton) this doesn't seem to be his fault. Hey, how about Lao Tzu? He OFFICIALLY walked away and they STILL did it to him. I wouldn't be blaming these guys for what the nutcase crowd does afterwards... Blue Max

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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 22:19:15 (GMT) From: bill Email: None To: Blue Max Subject: Bill, why the Message:

Hi blue Max, well, having my dream smashed so completely left me totally raw and it was hell to adjust to the whole change. I had many people proposing this or that version of reality during that period and I had a real job on my hands sorting through it. If I sound all hot on the subject it is just for that reason. but, It is interesting what you brought up so I will still cover it to some extent. Maybe join me in that thread to just explore the subject and other subjects:)

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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 00:09:58 (GMT) From: Blue Max Email: None To: bill Subject: The Philosophical Knife Message:

Bill, I can sympathize with you; my jaw dropped to the floor as well when I first heard all this. Fortunately I picked my jaw back up and it still fits... This is where the knife comes in handy; Every teaching I ever came across said 'Look inward for the answer; DO NOT BUILD ANY DREAMS ON THIS SHIFTING LANDSCAPE YOU'RE LOOKING AT!' That includes everything and everyone, forever and ever, no matter what, no matter who, no matter..(incidently, that's what the tachyon model stresses,'No Matter'). Interesting.... I don't care WHO crashes and burns..I have no excuse for anyone including myself. I am alone. With Knowledge. Now what am I supposed to do??? Who's minding the store??? Throw it all away and you'll have it all. Blue Max

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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 01:47:50 (GMT) From: bill Email: None To: Blue Max Subject: The Philosophical Knife Message:

Hi Blue Max, I thought I posted a response to this post already! I dont see it here. I must have messed up. I will start a thread up top to continue the discussion. I have a new addition for your name. Hope you like it.

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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 05:19:13 (GMT) From: Blue Max Email: None To: Bill Subject: An update to the knife Message:

Bill, By crash and burn, I meant teachers, preachers and such.. I didn't mean the innocent who suffered. The human spirit is quite resilient; you'll be fine. That's what this forum is priceless for. Let's stay in touch, my friend. Blue Max

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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 19:50:30 (GMT) From: sacre bleu! Email: None To: Blue Max Subject: Nothingness is sacred. Nothing else (nt) Message:

0

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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 03:41:30 (GMT) From: BIll Burke Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Thanks Michael Dettmers Message:

Your factual testimony has helped me dispense with the last of the die hard ghosts of experiences past. I dont suppose I will ever get a view of reality that accurately details the make up of this life completely. I have heard here at the forum that there are 2 kinds of people, those that like Neil Diamond and those that dont. Keeping with that kind of thinking, I say there are 3 kinds of people, those that think the 'oneness' is not self aware, those that say conciousness sprang from matter, and those that think the 'oneness' is self-aware. The make up of human nature makes me cast my vote with the crowd that says there is a self aware thing that has some power. We seem bound by limitations that constrain us. Just one is the one we ran into, we spent years laboring under the notion that an 'infinite experience' was something attainable. Luckily, it is not. prem rawat still markets the notion of course, and that he has somehow attained a -master of life- status. Your testimony of his tirades will help show that he has not attained any state. Would you consider covering the topic of his tirades of anger in more detail? Examples of the range and types of his misbehaviours will show present and future victims enough for them to accept that he is not 'a master that does things as part of his lila and we are not to judge' and that they can have a chance to break free.

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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 05:37:28 (GMT) From: A Friend Email: None To: BIll Burke Subject: Thanks Michael Dettmers Message:

Bill, When did you forsee all this? A Friend from long ago

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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 16:03:38 (GMT) From: bill Email: None To: A Friend Subject: Th Message:

Hi there, I am guessing you mean when did I see that arti was extreme poetic license. Call me a innocent, or an optomist, or delusional, but my knowledge prep was months of one to one satsang from one of mata Ji's own handmaidens who was formerly a hari Krisha gopi woman. Culminating in the soul rush to millenium and dancing to bhole ji's divine music while commenting to the disembodied spirits that were no doubt attending the event that I was in the enviable position of having a body and I was there at the beginning of the Millenium with the absolute ruler (maha raji), sitting there in his crown and krishna suit. that guy Yeshua, (renamed 'jesus' for who knows what reason), said 'as you believe, so shall it be done unto you' and to some extent that seems possible. And I believed, stayed in the group delusionary field, and the millenium rolled on. His mom (the lost and ridiculed mother of the universe), finally died after he shunned her for 17 years. He had a rather wicked mid-life crisis after she finished burning. I watched him in the videos dealing with that. By dec. 96, he had landed back in the throne, and with the delusions of his followers and his own life long activities propelling him, he re established his mental moorings squarely in the hindu/buddhist 'I play god, and you play devotee' schtick. So, the one shot he had to 'enlighten' himself during the mid life look in the mirror, was wasted. Only the truth of his own behaviours being made public will give him enough of a mirror to finish the job (if he dares). I was knocked off kilter by the dec 96 mid life crisis wrap up satsangs. I found the forum a couple months later and tried to restart my search for a mental foundation to rebuild on. It was no picnic! but, there really are stellar folks here. They are helpful when they dont even know they are. It is a negative subject we have here, but I find you can avoid feeling that and grow.

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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 03:30:20 (GMT) From: Steve Quint Email: the_avenger@hotmail.com To: Everyone Subject: Weed-Watch Of The Week Message:

I went to the weed-watching event yesterday to see friends. That part of it was very nice. I peeked in for one minute of weed-eating. The quote I heard was 'Kabir used to criticize masters. Kabir criticized many masters.' Anybody familiar with statistical sampling? That was a small sample size but I haven't heard him so defensive before. All The Best Steve

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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 08:51:56 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: Steve Quint Subject: Aren't you supposed to smoke it? (nt) Message:

cough cough

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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 03:46:09 (GMT) From: Stonor Email: None To: anyone Subject: marijuana and swastika and big business (OT?) Message:

Just noticed this link on my desktop and decided to post it here. Haven't read it through, but thought someone might find it interesting. marijuana and swastika and big business (Take care of that cough, Anth!)

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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 12:46:01 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: AJW Subject: It a genetically modified weed made for premies Message:

I would like to know which guru did Kabir not like. I can be wrong but did not he start the Sant movement? Does that mean that any guru that does not confirm to Kabir's liking or that other fellow with the turbin does not make the mark.

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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 13:02:22 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: Salam Subject: Kabir Message:

Hi Salam, The way I heard it- Kabir couldn't get anyone to publish his poetry, he got fed up sitting on his arse thinking about God, realised, if there was a God he'd meet him when he died anyway, so he took a career change and opened a fast-food subji restaurant outside Benares, got married, had three kids and spent the last ten years of his life in opiated bliss, while his wife and kids worked in the restaurant to keep his habit going. Anth the 'sin ik?'

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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 13:11:06 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: AJW Subject: Kabir's little weed : courtesy of Janice Wilson Message:

Kabir: Herb of joy 'My master has given me the herb of inner joy. It can neither be cut, nor burnt, and is always evergreen. This herb is very dear to me and tastes of nectar. It has secretly been placed in a room within the city of this body. When the serpents of lust and anger smell that herb, they perish instantly. The power of worldly illusion evaporates in the master's presence. Kabir says: 'Listen O truth-seeker, this precious herb is extremely scarce.' '

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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 13:36:23 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: Salam Subject: Kabir's little weed : courtesy of Janice Wilson Message:

Does his little weed grow under lights, or in the sunshine? 'It has secretly been placed in a room within the city of this body.' Is this a reference to shoving it up your backside to evade customs? Anth the green in these matters

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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 19:56:39 (GMT) From: cq Email: None To: AJW Subject: boogie on. (or should that be booger on?) Message:

You always said 'God is snot' didn't you Anth! (didn't know it was green snot, though).

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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 13:51:35 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: AJW Subject: Are you trying to grow something in your closet? Message:

It looks like it grows in the dark.

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Date: Tues, Nov 14, 2000 at 14:15:32 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: Anth Subject: Let’s get serious. Message:

I have been thinking of this for a while. In the view that m cares about him family and seeing that you were an 'm's honcho' and in touch with his kids, can you describe what was the relation between m and the children. Did they look at him as a father, a guru or both? How did he look at them? Did he ever mention that one of them would be the torchbearer? What did you think of them (the children) as of their ability to learn? Where they morons like their father, or did they show signs of intelligence? Do you think that they where able to express what they wanted or did they play the dumb premie trick? Are they spoilt rich daddy brats? Do you think they are normal, in the sense that they will grow as your average Joe blow? How did their mother see them? Did she help them in their studies or was she too busy playing a brainless goddess?

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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 10:19:10 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: Salam Subject: Marolyn and the children. Message:

Hi Salam, That’s quite a question. First, it’s a long time since I taught Maharaji’s children- getting on for twenty years ago- although I did keep in touch with them up until about four or five years ago. The last time I saw them was when I was invited to Maharaji’s birthday part in Malibu about five years ago. The last time I spoke to them and their mum was at Daya’s birthday party in Reigate about six years ago. I think Marolyn and the children are probably the best thing that ever happened to Maharaji. I spent quite a bit of time, during my teaching days, talking to Marolyn and I liked her. There are some premies who use knowledge to beat their colleagues, and some who seem to maintain some of their humanity, despite everything that the cult has immersed them in. Marolyn always came across as someone who retained her humanity. She never struck me as “brainless”, and took great care to see that the children were brought up as “normally” as possible under the circumstances. It would have been very easy for her to use her position in an authoritarian way, but I never saw her doing this. Maharaji’s relationship with his children, and how they see him (or saw him- as I’m out of touch now) has two aspects that spring to mind. One is the basic parent-child relationship- dealing with all the stuff that any parent has to deal with. The other aspect is his role as Perfect Master. This may be easier to understand if you look at someone like Chelsea Clinton. Her dad is her dad- but also President of the States. Maharaji is their dad, but they have been brought up to see him in his role as “Perfect Master” too. As we once “knew” Salam, Kings and Emperors have importance on Earth- but the most important person is the Perfect Master. The daughters of Kings have status as “Princesses”, so what status would the daughter of the Perfect Master have? I think this kind of thing was laid on them when they were little. When I taught them, I stayed right away from all that stuff, but occasionally I’d get the impression that they’d had their dad’s role explained to them as I’ve described. The children are not stupid. They have all spent lots of time with intelligent adults, played with the best toys, and travelled the world. So they’ve had a good, broad, education- aside from what went on in the classroom with myself and Susan, their teacher in America. Most of my time was spent with Premlata. She was great fun to be with when she was little, and we had some really good times together. She was an incredibly imaginative and creative girl who always surprised me with her inventive solutions to the problems I set. For example, when she was five, I taught her simple addition with methods like- draw two circles (ponds) draw three fish in one and two fish in another. Then draw another pond and put all the fish in. Wadi would draw the pond, then draw the most beautiful coloured fish in it, then maybe someone sitting by the pond with a fishing rod, trying to catch one of the fish. She was a pleasure to teach. I often used to get the feeling she was hungry for a more “normal” life- like a classroom full of “normal” children. Hansi was always a mystery to me. He wasn’t as enthusiastic about school as Wadi and Daya, and used to view me with a bit of suspicion. I’ve met him a couple of times since he’s been a teenager, and he’s always been pleasant and polite. Daya, like Wadi, enjoyed school and came across as a genuinely kind, thoughtful, outgoing person. She is a natural, charming hostess. I remember once, Marolyn invited my wife and two children down to Reigate for the day. My boys, Tim and Luke, had never seen toys like the stuff at the Residence that belonged to Maharaji’s children. I was impressed how pleasant and hospitable Wadi, Hansi and Daya were with Tim and Luke. They shared their toys with them without a problem- which with small children isn’t usually the case. I’m way out of touch with how the children see their dad nowadays. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if one or more of them is questioning the role of their father. I’ve heard Wadi is doing some job for the cult in California- but how they will get on in the “outside world” is anybody’s guess, if indeed, they ever leave the financial shelter of their father’s world. I like to think that one or more of them will escape the cult conditioning that they’ve been through, and eventually get their own lives together. I also like to think that I’d be available to talk to them about it if they ever did decide to leave. You asked if they are spoilt, rich, daddy’s brats. Spoiled- no, rich- yes, daddy’s-yes, brats-no. You also asked if one of them would be the “torch bearer”. I never heard anything directly. Most days I would go up to the classroom on the side of the house- do my thing, then leave. The times when Maharaji came into the classroom, either he’d sit quietly and let me get on with it, or take over for a while, so the topics I talked to him about were nearly always related to what I was doing with the children. However, I did hear things from premies who spent more time with him, that were kind of “Premie hints”, where you fill in the cosmic gap yourself. They’d occasionally say things like, Maharaji made a comment about Hansi’s feet- or something. Even then I had the impression, maybe we were being primed to accept Hansi as the next Perfect Master. Time will tell. Hope this answers your question Salam. Anth the teacher

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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 15:33:56 (GMT) From: a0aji Email: None To: AJW Subject: More premie pr0n Message:

It's striking how this kind of premie porn hasn't lost any of its charm, Anth. :) It's hard to describe but it is sort of like watching a really good serial programme on television -- the characters almost make me feel like I'm a part of their family, for that hour each week. I'm sure it is meant to feel that way; that is the appeal. Sometimes it is the emotions shared and the closeness between the members that matters (E.R., The Third Watch, Twin Peaks) and sometimes it's the importance of what they are doing in the world -- how they are making a difference; how they are making history! (Law and Order and most PBS documentary series such as Nova and Frontline). Since Maharaji's family wasn't doing anything important in the world or for the world or for history -- the only thing left for the voyeur grunt premie was to get interested in the drama of the lives of the Holy Family and the PAMs; to pretend and to project participation in the Holy Family's day to day lives as people interrelating. Most of the stories about the Holy Family took on those qualities of interpersonal drama, since Divine Light Mission was internally consistent but had very little to do with the machinations of the world scene, and of history, proper. In that regard, it was like a real Dallas or Dynasty or Falcon Crest -- one that didn't stop when the weekly fix of stories about the characters was told; because these were stories about real people and very important people in all of our lives. Or so we thought! At least the TV audience probably realizes that when the show is over, it was just a show, and you couldn't really ever interact with the characters portrayed -- because it was all a fiction. Sigh. Nobody told the premies that. Is a jackass King still a King? I guess for hundreds of the premies, it went deeper than living vicariously through the stories told -- they actually (jesus christ!) got on the Greyhound bus, rode out to Malibu, and actually engaged in the lives of these VIP devotees, the Holy Family, and the PAMs! There were always these wild desert wanderer premies who would traipse through the local community, and tell stories about The Band (oops, that's the Deadhead cult) I mean, about Maharaji's family, the initiators, the premies with important 'service' in DLM.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 02:02:36 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: AJW Subject: Marolyn and the children. Message:

Anth Thank you for the reply. Very crisp and educational. So you do not think that 'his' wife was stupid? I think she is the dumbest think I have come across. What's with all that crying that she did and the way she portrayed herself as a complete selfless devotee that can only see her god guru? What effect did that have on thousands of premies that had to listen to her. Why are there rumors know that she got laid by a driver? What happened to al that devotion?

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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 03:35:10 (GMT) From: Tim Miller Email: None To: Salam Subject: Tammy Faye Rawat! nt Message:

nt

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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 19:30:41 (GMT) From: Steve Quint Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com To: Tim Miller Subject: Not Exactly, Her Husband Did Time nt Message:

nt

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