Forum V: Archive
Compiled: Fri, Dec 01, 2000 at 16:23:07 (GMT)
From: Nov 15, 2000 To: Nov 25, 2000 Page: 5 Of: 5


Bongo -:- Bless us all -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 11:57:34 (GMT)
__ Bingo -:- The long and the short.... -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 12:28:28 (GMT)
__ __ Bongo -:- The long and the short.... -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 11:06:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ Bingo -:- and the tall !! -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 12:55:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Bongo -:- Mirth . -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 14:21:21 (GMT)

Buzz -:- Hans-yoga Prakash -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 06:29:18 (GMT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- The copy I own is only 50 pages long -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 14:02:38 (GMT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- Hans-yoga Prakash -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 08:07:56 (GMT)
__ __ Buzz -:- Hans-yoga Prakash -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 17:33:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- That other book ?. -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 08:11:24 (GMT)
__ __ Patrick -:- Hans-yoga Prakash -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 09:29:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ suchabanana -:- Hans Yog Prakash here different from my copy -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 20:23:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ Buzz -:- Hans-yoga Prakash -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 17:28:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Yes -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 09:55:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Some stuff I found.... -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 17:38:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jean-%ichel -:- Some stuff I found.... -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 08:13:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- I'll email you soon, Jean-Michel...(nt) -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 16:57:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ P.S from Cynthia -:- Some stuff I found.... -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 17:44:51 (GMT)

ExTex -:- Another Perfect Master Gets Nailed! -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 06:12:04 (GMT)
__ a0aji -:- It's a good cite. Thank you, ExTex -nt- -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 02:33:59 (GMT)
__ ExTex -:- CORRECTED url -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 06:19:02 (GMT)
__ __ frex -:- CORRECTED url - clickable links -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 09:56:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ cq -:- quotable quote -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 13:50:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Way -:- quotable quote -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 15:24:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ ExTex -:- So MANY identical paralels -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 04:42:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ JohnT -:- Thank you ExTex ... -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 09:02:08 (GMT)

Peter Howie -:- Prodigal Son II -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 05:40:31 (GMT)

Peter Howie -:- It probably will continue AD -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 03:33:11 (GMT)
__ Nigel -:- Where else do religions come from? -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 04:03:43 (GMT)
__ __ Peter Howie -:- Where else do religions come from? -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 04:26:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ Mickey the Pharisee -:- Where else do religions come from? -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 04:34:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Peter Howie -:- Where else do religions come from? -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 05:30:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jennifer -:- Hilarious, Mickey--nt -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 05:17:05 (GMT)
__ Salam -:- Peter Peter,wake up man,you're having a bad dream -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 03:48:00 (GMT)

Gail -:- I got the call to 'PARTICIPATE' yesterday -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 03:32:55 (GMT)
__ Tim Miller -:- Me too! -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 03:46:42 (GMT)
__ __ Blue Max -:- Me too! -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 05:25:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ Salam -:- Auto Knowledge -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 11:12:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Sorry, I've beaten you to it -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 14:53:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- Hay man,you've broken our confidentiality agrement -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 16:38:16 (GMT)

Nigel -:- For God's sake spit it out, woman… -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 00:52:48 (GMT)
__ Stonor -:- 'self-hypnosis you could find in a book' left in?! -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 05:54:36 (GMT)
__ __ Nigel -:- 'self-hypnosis you could find in a book' left in?! -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 13:21:35 (GMT)
__ Sir Dave -:- For God's sake spit it out, woman… -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 10:50:23 (GMT)
__ __ a0aji -:- For God's sake spit it out, woman... -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 21:10:22 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- Lila -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 10:20:31 (GMT)
__ Roger eDrek -:- Dirty deeds done cheaply not -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 02:17:09 (GMT)
__ __ Steve Quint -:- Dirty Deeds Done To Sheep -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 06:39:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- I like that. Thanks, Steve (NT) -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 21:22:58 (GMT)
__ __ Nigel -:- AHA - That's it! - Jim's got The Word! -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 03:08:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ Mickey the Pharisee -:- I don't know how you do it! -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 03:56:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Nigel -:- I don't know how you do it! -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 04:10:51 (GMT)
__ Nigel -:- Spooky!!! -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 01:18:55 (GMT)

Rev John Hammond-Smyth -:- The Prodigal Son -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 22:11:25 (GMT)
__ Mickey the Pharisee -:- Q.Who was unhappy with the Prodigal Son's return? -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 03:59:38 (GMT)
__ __ Rev John Hammond-Smyth -:- Q.Who was unhappy with the Prodigal Son's return? -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 09:36:17 (GMT)
__ __ Bennie and the Jets -:- gonna slay the fatted calf tonight so stick around -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 09:33:26 (GMT)
__ Roger eDrek -:- My House is now clean and I beg forgiveness -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 01:26:28 (GMT)
__ __ Michael Dettmers -:- My House is now clean and I beg forgiveness -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 01:23:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- You are quite welcome. (nt) -:- Tues, Nov 21, 2000 at 05:43:43 (GMT)
__ __ Rev John Hammond-Smyth -:- But please correct mine own errors -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 09:18:06 (GMT)
__ Stonor -:- Naaaaah, that's not it! (see above) -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 22:43:30 (GMT)

la-ex -:- Michael Dettmers,did you have any comments on ... -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 21:52:43 (GMT)
__ Michael Dettmers -:- Michael Dettmers,did you have any comments on ... -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 01:33:39 (GMT)
__ __ la-ex -:- Midge was from Wash DC-any DC exes know her? -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 04:07:06 (GMT)
__ bill -:- Michael Dettmers,did you have any comments on ... -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 22:30:33 (GMT)
__ __ uncultivated -:- This cult will outlive us? -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 09:12:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ blister cult -:- This cult will outlive us? -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 09:51:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Tim Miller -:- It will only become a headline. -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 10:07:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ jondon -:- M won't make another mistake -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 20:16:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- M won't make another mistake...and we won't either -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 02:17:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ a0aji -:- M won't make another mistake...and we won't either -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 02:30:55 (GMT)

Larkin -:- There was a naughty poet... -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 20:47:21 (GMT)
__ ham -:- Larkin the rapper, now there's a concept -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 14:05:52 (GMT)
__ Marianne -:- Agree with Anth! -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 17:12:36 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- Wicked Larkin. Give up the day job. (nt) -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 10:27:15 (GMT)
__ jondon -:- Nice rap...boom boom shhhck shhck (nt) -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 04:39:10 (GMT)
__ __ Larkin -:- Oh, Hamzen..! A backbeat over here please...!(nt) -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 20:41:44 (GMT)
__ Cynthia -:- !!!BRAVO!!^^^^Everyone Read This^^^^^!!! (nt) -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 21:55:12 (GMT)
__ __ Gail -:- Teeheeheeheeheehee (nt) -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 15:24:18 (GMT)

Brian -:- New Journey and Aspirant Hell -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 19:56:45 (GMT)
__ Stonor -:- Exposure to online techniques 'bent his key'??!!! -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 05:09:33 (GMT)

TD -:- Maharaji's love of documentaries .... -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 17:11:00 (GMT)
__ Jerry -:- Maharaji's love of documentaries .... -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 00:29:11 (GMT)
__ __ Cynthia -:- Does anyone remember the ''party line'' about... -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 20:29:12 (GMT)
__ Cynthia -:- Maharaji's love of documentaries ....I doubt it... -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 19:53:51 (GMT)
__ __ Wish -:- He watches documentaries to get ideas -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 22:17:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- The problem is he doesn't understand much -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 11:36:16 (GMT)

Salam -:- Wake up you geese. -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 16:22:33 (GMT)
__ ulf -:- Wake up you geese. -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 19:38:49 (GMT)
__ __ Jerry -:- Jimi Hendrix revisited -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 00:49:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ ulf -:- if six was nine -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 18:32:49 (GMT)
__ __ Salam -:- Wake up you geese. -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 03:41:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ ulf -:- e mail -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 20:30:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Salam -:- Why? -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 00:06:38 (GMT)
__ Sir Dave -:- What premies should really ask -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 18:36:59 (GMT)
__ Blue Max -:- You Goose -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 18:20:54 (GMT)
__ __ Blue Max -:- this is silly -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 23:44:55 (GMT)
__ __ Cynthia -:- This is silly.... -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 20:01:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Honk honk -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 09:20:55 (GMT)

Bongo -:- Baby/bathwater -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 10:53:19 (GMT)
__ Nigel -:- Gravy/dishwater.. -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 23:57:00 (GMT)
__ And On Anand Ji -:- Rubber Baby Buggie Bumper! -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 17:15:40 (GMT)
__ __ Cynthia -:- E.A.R. Plugs! -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 19:46:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ Chachi -:- cannabis mandala -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 21:10:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Nigel -:- Nice post, Chachi -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 01:15:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Chachi -:- Nice post, Chachi -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 07:46:46 (GMT)
__ Steve Quint -:- My Two Cents Worth -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 16:54:25 (GMT)
__ __ Mickey the Pharisee -:- My Two Cents Worth -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 04:18:17 (GMT)
__ __ Nigel -:- My Two Cents Worth -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 02:53:01 (GMT)
__ __ Lotus Eater -:- The Mirroring Effect -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 20:39:30 (GMT)
__ __ Steve Quint -:- This Should Make Four Cents Worth -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 19:26:50 (GMT)
__ Way -:- Baby/bathwater -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 15:33:06 (GMT)
__ __ Nigel -:- 'Dawkins personality cult'? -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 21:07:43 (GMT)
__ __ Way -:- Oh, I forgot to ask... -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 15:37:53 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- Baby/bathwater/electrons -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 11:31:39 (GMT)
__ __ ulf -:- Baby/bathwater/electrons -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 15:54:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ AJW -:- Report from the Void. -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 16:03:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ ulf -:- Report from the Void. -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 20:26:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- The Joy of Not Meditating -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 16:05:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- To ulf -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 17:17:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ ulf -:- to salem and a.j w -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 12:21:18 (GMT)

Peter Howie -:- The gender thing - the guru is a bloke -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 02:40:57 (GMT)
__ Steve Quint -:- The gender thing - the guru is a bloke -:- Tues, Nov 21, 2000 at 07:25:43 (GMT)
__ Way -:- Mysticism and sex -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 16:21:00 (GMT)
__ __ Steve Quint -:- Mysticism and sex -:- Tues, Nov 21, 2000 at 06:58:35 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- God is a man. -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 11:33:52 (GMT)
__ __ Salam -:- God is a man. I agree -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 12:53:55 (GMT)
__ Rick -:- The gender thing - the guru is a bloke -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 05:44:56 (GMT)
__ Sir Dave -:- The gender thing - the guru is a bloke -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 02:58:28 (GMT)
__ __ Peter Howie -:- The gender thing - the guru is a bloke -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 04:23:10 (GMT)
__ __ Stonor -:- C'mon Sir Dave, how can the whole be a half! -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 03:58:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Don't be silly, Stonor -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 12:28:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Stonor -:- How SILLY of me!!! -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 19:37:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Excuse me, can a woman join this thread? -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 16:12:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- Only if she cuts her hair and wears trousers..(nt) -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 18:58:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- How do you know how I look? -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 22:50:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ Happy -:- Nirmala Devi and Guru Amma -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 10:07:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ JohnT -:- Guru Amma -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 14:23:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Way -:- Ammachi is horrible!!!! -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 15:50:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Happy -:- agree completely -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 17:00:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ JohnT -:- sigh ... -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 09:23:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Zelda -:- God is a man so that.. -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 02:02:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- NO WAY! I'd NEVER be his GOPI! -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 03:23:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Zelda -:- Krishna Lila dancers...in fact... -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 06:23:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Krishna Lila dancers...in fact... Mahblalah? LOL! -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 06:50:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Zelda -:- Krishna Lila dancers...in fact... Mahblalah? LOL! -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 07:04:57 (GMT)

janet of venice -:- another suicide -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 21:11:18 (GMT)
__ Tim Miller -:- does a suicide count if. -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 07:36:33 (GMT)
__ __ Sir Dave -:- does a suicide count if. -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 12:14:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ Bimbo -:- some comment -:- Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 15:09:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ Tim Miller -:- Didn't think for a moment -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 03:40:08 (GMT)
__ __ Bimbo -:- does a suicide count if. -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 09:05:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ Forum Administrator -:- Bimbo - is this true? -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 17:12:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ Nigel -:- If a junkie commits suicide during detox... -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 13:10:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Salam -:- To Bimbo -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 15:51:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Bimbo -:- To Salam and ... -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 16:50:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- To Salam and ... -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 21:44:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- Bimbo won't because Bimbo can't.. -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 16:37:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ Sir Dave -:- You are not telling the truth, Bimbo -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 12:18:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ TM -:- Who? Not quite following you -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 09:39:15 (GMT)
__ Sir Dave -:- another suicide -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 02:28:33 (GMT)
__ __ janet -:- another suicide -:- Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 03:07:29 (GMT)
__ SB -:- Can't read the whole thing: When -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 21:44:18 (GMT)
__ __ janet -:- 1977, between montreal and guru puja (nt) -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 21:49:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ SB -:- No, but I am counting -:- Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 21:56:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Bimbo -:- To Sir Dave -:- Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 14:56:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Bimo -:- Just for the records -:- Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 18:51:08 (GMT)


Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 11:57:34 (GMT)
From: Bongo
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Bless us all
Message:
Thanks to all. I will now go into reflect mode. Plenty to look at here.
Love Bongo.
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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 12:28:28 (GMT)
From: Bingo
Email: None
To: Bongo
Subject: The long and the short....
Message:
Is this a meagre attempt at a retirement speech ?

Does this mean we will not be hearing from you for a while ?

has technique number four finally got the better of you ?
(best practiced with a friend that one)

Look - its really very simple and there is NEVER cause for unneccesary reflection -

The techniques add up you say - well I have looked into this, given great thought to the matter, and in the middle of the night stumbled upon the following equation :

1+2+3+4 = 10 = 1

Eureaka I cried, as I poke out my third eye
with the bregon I was using to lean on

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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 11:06:52 (GMT)
From: Bongo
Email: None
To: Bingo
Subject: The long and the short....
Message:
Never had any intention of retiring. Steady on.
love Bongo.
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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 12:55:59 (GMT)
From: Bingo
Email: None
To: Bongo
Subject: and the tall !!
Message:
Hurrah !!

Hurrah for Him !!

Let the dancing and celebrations break out afresh !

L.

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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 14:21:21 (GMT)
From: Bongo
Email: None
To: Bingo
Subject: Mirth .
Message:
Oh yes 'L' let the mirth flow copiously in all of the manifest directions of the compass rose.
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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 06:29:18 (GMT)
From: Buzz
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Hans-yoga Prakash
Message:
Jean,
I don't know whether you are aware of a book that was compiled by
Hans during 1932-34,it was printed in Hindi in 1934 with the 1st english print in'85.It is around 220 pages,some interesting stuff on kundalini and Holy Name etc.
I have a copy but no scanner.
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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 14:02:38 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Buzz
Subject: The copy I own is only 50 pages long
Message:
and in case yours is THAT LONG, means we might make some discoveries in it....

Why was that shorter version released later on ?

Guess ...

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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 08:07:56 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: jmkahn@club-internet.fr
To: Buzz
Subject: Hans-yoga Prakash
Message:
Would you email me ? We'll find a way to have this available for everybody ....
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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 17:33:28 (GMT)
From: Buzz
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Hans-yoga Prakash
Message:
Hi Jean,
As soon as I get back on my own computer,(a few hours),I'll email you.I also have the one you have,it was obviously compiled later from some of the original.
I also have a book First printed '85 all about the life of Shri Hans,nearly 500 pages,it tells all about the early years and how he spread K,with lots of stories from some of the mahatmas and devotees.s,some interesting pics as well.
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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 08:11:24 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Buzz
Subject: That other book ?.
Message:
is it different from the one that's already online? (satgurudev ....)
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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 09:29:59 (GMT)
From: Patrick
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Hans-yoga Prakash
Message:
Exxcuse me is anyone awake?? Hello??
You already have this online at :

http://www.ex-premie.org/papers/hyp.htm

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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 20:23:43 (GMT)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: Patrick
Subject: Hans Yog Prakash here different from my copy
Message:
How about this insightful excerpt (as posted here)?

'Whosoever goes to meet a Guru, a doctor, an astrologer, his friends, the gods, or a King without any gift or offering will never be successful in his endeavour.

You should understand that Guru is superior to God, for God places us in this hell, but Guru makes fear of this hell vanish.

Guru is the Creator, Guru is the Preserver, and Guru is the destroyer of this universe. Shri Guru Maharaj Ji is the Supreme God who removes the suffering of the humble and the poor. He who comes to the shelter of Guru Maharaj Ji is freed from the round of sufferings.'

The version I have is different in a number of places; it was translated and edited by Charananand in the early '70s.

Peace,

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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 17:28:14 (GMT)
From: Buzz
Email: None
To: Patrick
Subject: Hans-yoga Prakash
Message:
Hi Patrick,
The copy I have is completely differant.The one you are pointing to is just a brief extract.
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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 09:55:33 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Patrick
Subject: Yes
Message:
I don't know if we've all the stuff online.

Maybe he's got another version ...

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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 17:38:59 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Some stuff I found....
Message:
Hi,

After reading this thread I looked for some stuff, this is what I have.

1) ''The Draft Translation of: HANS YOG PRAKASH. by: Yogiraj Paramsant Satgurudev, SHRI HANS JI MAHARAJ.'' I found it at DLM, Miami Beach (after Deca) when I was told to clean out the files. It's a photocopy, typewritten on a few different typewriters and also has a page about 16 pages into it that says: (Here are two pages missing from the original text)--I believe it means that two pages are missing, not ''here they are.'' Unbound, on 8-1/2' x 11' white paper.

2) People Who Look For Peace Get It, Quotations from Guru Maharaj Ji, 1975, Divine Light Mission.

3) SATGURUDEV SHRI HANS JI MAHARAJ, Subtitled: ''Eternal is He, Eternal is His Knowledge'' Published by Divine Light Mission, B-10/3, Shakti Nagar, Delhi 7, India. 1st Edition, 20,000 copies, 8th November, 1970, Printed at Albion Press, Delhi-6. It has a preface. It also has an ''Editor's Note'' written by: C.L. Tandon, M.A. (History and Pol.Sc), Secretary, Divine Light Mission. It's bound with a drab, olive green soft cover.

4) THE LIVING MASTER, quotes from Guru Maharaj Ji, 1978, Divine Light Mission, P.O. Box 532, Denver, Colorado 80201.

5) An original of The Miami Herald's Sunday Magazine called ''Tropic'' dated June 1, 1980, cover picture of Cliff Yudell, article written called ''Me and Maharaj Ji'' by Cliff Yudell.

I don't have a scanner and these are all pretty fragile. I'd have to snail mail them, but these are yours if you want them.

Best, Cynthia

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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 08:13:43 (GMT)
From: Jean-%ichel
Email: jmkahn@club-internet.fr
To: Cynthia
Subject: Some stuff I found....
Message:
would you email me ?

Some of this stuff is precious IMO.

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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 16:57:52 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: I'll email you soon, Jean-Michel...(nt)
Message:
nn
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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 17:44:51 (GMT)
From: P.S from Cynthia
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Some stuff I found....
Message:
The draft of Hans Yog Prakash is about 50 pages.

The olive green book is 102 pages, about 6''x 9'', the final page is a photo of goomraji sitting efore microphones when he was about 8.

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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 06:12:04 (GMT)
From: ExTex
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Another Perfect Master Gets Nailed!
Message:
Go to the following site to read about how yet another 'Incarnation of Perfection' gets nailed as a phony. This time not just for bullshitting but for slight of hand 'magic tricks' and YEARS OF PORKING YOUNG BOYS!!!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/et?

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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 02:33:59 (GMT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: ExTex
Subject: It's a good cite. Thank you, ExTex -nt-
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 06:19:02 (GMT)
From: ExTex
Email: None
To: ALL
Subject: CORRECTED url
Message:
copy/paste this:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/et?ac=000647321007942&rtmo=0iRJ0KNq&atmo=lllllllx&pg=/et/00/10/28/tlbaba28.html

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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 09:56:26 (GMT)
From: frex
Email: None
To: ExTex
Subject: CORRECTED url - clickable links
Message:
Divine Downfall of Sai Baba:
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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 13:50:06 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: frex
Subject: quotable quote
Message:
from the Telegraph article:

'Some people,' said Jeff Young, 'when we tell them our story, they drop Sai Baba like a rock. Some just don't want to hear it. And others hear it all and say, well, he's God! It's all a test.
I laughed when I heard that. Because to me, passing the test is having the courage to stand up on your own two feet and say this is not acceptable.'

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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 15:24:28 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: quotable quote
Message:
Another very familiar quote was when a man who still follows Sai Baba as a teacher said something to the effect that he himself never thought of Sai Baba as God. Asked what he thinks now, he said that Sai Baba is an 'enigma.'

People should email the Indian government and insist that they stop harboring a pedophile. International outrage should force that country to arrest Sai Baba.

Thanks, ExTex, for the latest on this guy.

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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 04:42:02 (GMT)
From: ExTex
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: So MANY identical paralels
Message:
It is really amazing how the stuff people in that article were saying could have almost been DIRECT QUOTES from premies!

The results of the NEED TO BELIEVE and the exploitation and manipulation of that need are uncannily similar...
no matter where it shows up!

BIZARRE!

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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 09:02:08 (GMT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: ExTex
Subject: Thank you ExTex ...
Message:
I've really appreciated a couple of posts of yours lately. And this Sai Baba one is a treat. The parellels with Rawat's racket deserve hammering home a tad; so look out for a follow up post (coming soon above)

JohnT

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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 05:40:31 (GMT)
From: Peter Howie
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Prodigal Son II
Message:
Albert Camus wrote a story of the prodigal son. Someone gave it to me to read when in the ashram - naughty person - one of those sophisticated types who did what the hell they wanted in the ashram - slight jealousy in my writing.

Anyway this Camus version is pretty great. In it - after the great swep-up feast the brothers go to their room. There the brother who didn't go off castigates the one who returned saying that they hadn't tried hard enough - and that they were a loser for returning - and that what is a bit of difficulty when it comes to having a full life rather than staying the slave to the old man. The next day the other brother has taken off in search of their own life.

At the time I, of course, rejected the story and the person who had me lent it to me. However it did effect me - it would be 20 years since I read that story briefly. Camus was a wsie one indeed.

Cheers

Peter

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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 03:33:11 (GMT)
From: Peter Howie
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: It probably will continue AD
Message:
I was reading a post and had that shuddering thought that I have had a few times and that is realising that unless MJ recants (yeah right) or he and a bunch go out in a blaze (though this still might not finish it) the premie world will likely continue in some form or other. I mean there are religions for dead musicians after all.

And we were conditioned by all those stories about the Sikh gurus (Nanak et al) and how only the true devotee actually found the true master after the death of the true master. How the true devotee searched for the true master etc etc etc.

Cheers

Peter Howie

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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 04:03:43 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: Peter Howie
Subject: Where else do religions come from?
Message:
Dead Masters, unexposed, untested and unjailed; grief-stricken devotees desperate to keep the faith, penning scriptures in the Master's memory.

Even when obvious frauds like Applewhite take a mad trip to Halle Bopp or Ashokohara gases the Tokyo subway, they leave in their wake a clique of believers whose faith is unshaken, no matter what.

The whole thing is frightening indeed and an unfortunate design-flaw in homo sapiens.

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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 04:26:50 (GMT)
From: Peter Howie
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Where else do religions come from?
Message:
Yeah, yeah!

I was listening to a Tibetan chap saying that not all the heads of the monasteries were such holy-joes as we of the west would like to believe. Many preyed on the children sent to them and so did the heirarchy of the monasteries. He was actually slightly supportive of the Chinese for this reason. It stopped the place being a crooked theocracy.

Jeez...it's been a long time since the world could be seen in black and white - or as a premie in white and white.

Cheers

Peter

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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 04:34:39 (GMT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: None
To: Peter Howie
Subject: Where else do religions come from?
Message:
Religions come from your Mom and Dad; they're the ones who get ya in the club! Cults come from your lousy friends who are nothing but trouble and you never should have been hanging out with anyway as they are a bad influence and now they talked you into kissing some fat kid from India's toes. Then there's Richard Dawkins.
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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 05:30:41 (GMT)
From: Peter Howie
Email: None
To: Mickey the Pharisee
Subject: Where else do religions come from?
Message:
Well I think I got both from my Mum or Mom as you put it.

My Mum was brought up in - where else - but Dehra Dhun for the first 12 years of her life. My Grandfather (whom I never met) was working for the British govt constructing railways all over the country.

Oddly enough my Mum always warned me about crooked indians when I joined MJ. If only she hadn't been so blatently racist I might have been able to listen to her.

She used to tell me stories of how the various Raj's and others would try and bribe her Dad to put the rail through their piece of the world - which would of course make them (the Raj's) particularly rich. She talked about the amazing jewelery that she saw - crowns, necklaces - old estate jewelery. Unfortunately or fortunately my grandfather always returned the jewells. Anyway because of this my Mum would always say that MJ was a fat crook like so many other indians she had met and simply couldn't be trusted. Ironic HuH!

Cheers

Peter

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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 05:17:05 (GMT)
From: Jennifer
Email: None
To: Mickey the Pharisee
Subject: Hilarious, Mickey--nt
Message:
ntntntnt
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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 03:48:00 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Peter Howie
Subject: Peter Peter,wake up man,you're having a bad dream
Message:
It is all right. We are still here. The stargate is closed and them nasty bugs are gone.
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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 03:32:55 (GMT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: I got the call to 'PARTICIPATE' yesterday
Message:
Good God! The Lard does work in mysterious ways, doesn't he. Once again, I have been invited to PARTICIPATE. They must be really short this month!!!!

The woman who didn't know I had left the cult some time ago. I filled her in on the details about this site. Of course, all the 'piss and vinegar' is out of my system. I liked this person and was very polite. After all, she is having a beauuuuuutiful experience. After twenty-six years in the cult, her heart might not take the bad news all at once.

She seem surprised to hear that the 'Dour is always open'--I was turned away at the door even though I had an invitation to the shindig two years ago in Toronto. She thought the 'open door' policy was still in effect.

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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 03:46:42 (GMT)
From: Tim Miller
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Me too!
Message:
I even got the latest Visions catalog. I received a brochure in the mail that essentially said that in addition to donating to Elan Vital one can now also donate to Visions. Oh what OPPORTUNITY!
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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 05:25:57 (GMT)
From: Blue Max
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Me too!
Message:
I got that info in the mail,too.

What's this 'Auto Knowledge'? A new Dodge Ram Pickup?

Good God, is that the end game in mind??

Blue Max

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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 11:12:05 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Blue Max
Subject: Auto Knowledge
Message:
Seeing that maharaji does not really give a fuck about who takes knowledge or who does not, he has few video recordings or the 4 techniques. On knowledge day, all the little maggots gather in a little hole and a satalite transmission takes place. After that you become a cyber premie. Good luck for them. I have proposed to have a Knowledge CD made and sold. But Sir David wants to compete with me. So we are negotiating, I want China, the pacific and India. He wants the rest. Sucha does not like the idea so he/she wants to offer it for free.
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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 14:53:19 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Sorry, I've beaten you to it
Message:
I've already got China sewn up with my 'Four Techniques To Improve Workers' Production' CD, MPEG and MP3 which is also WAP compatable. They have WAP phones in China now.

All I had to do to not breach our previous agreement is tell them to move their thumbs slightly forward and stick their little fingers out. Ha, and you thought you had me beaten!

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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 16:38:16 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Hay man,you've broken our confidentiality agrement
Message:
This is bad for bussiness. What will you customers say about you, I am taking this with Gorge Bush, see if I can sneak it in a court with the rest of the ballots. You mean, nasty and bad pommie bastard. I wish you get bitten by a mosquito.(I was in Manchaster for 6 months last year. Never saw a fly or a mosquito once). And you are sending Nigel here to Australia, I know what you planing, trying to find a market aren't you? And I was thinking of meeting him. No way jose.
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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 00:52:48 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Everyone
Subject: For God's sake spit it out, woman…
Message:
(It's a mucky job but in Jim's absence somebody has to do it)

Latest in from ELK:

>>>>
Karen Plaxton
Singing from a grateful heart

We have just returned from India, where we had the opportunity to enjoy the company of our master. Not only did he speak to us from his heart, but there was an opportunity for me to sing to him, not in Hindi but in English, my mother tongue, a song that first touched my heart on a London Tube train on the way to my first programme in 1977.

Some people with Knowledge were on the same train and the song was playing from a tinny little cassette player (long before walkmans!) and 'Lila' soared up and down the rattling carriage and tears came to my eyes.

I never knew what Lila was or meant, but I felt the words and the sweetness of the girl's voice and I was touched.

Again, he allowed me to express my love, to sing to him, from my grateful heart and to feel like a 'human being' and not a 'human doing'.

'The game has just begun... and I know that this little stream will flow into the sea...'

Thanks for this opportunity to express...

>>>>

Karen didn't know what 'Lila' meant, back in '77. She surely knows what Lila means now, but feels coy about stating it explicitly, since it involves possibly misidentifying Prem Rawat as Lord of the Universe, or worse. Or perhaps she DID state it explicitly, but the ELK editors saw fit to apply The Scissors.

I wonder what Lardy's Lou Grants would have done had Karen typed out the lyrics of 'Lila' just to recapture the Indian Kodak moment..?

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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 05:54:36 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: 'self-hypnosis you could find in a book' left in?!
Message:
Hello Nigel,

I couldn't believe that they didn't edit 'My Dad says it's just some kind of self-hypnosis(!) you could find in a book, But Maharaji showed me how to and it's wonderful.' What a scary statement. Did you expect them to leave it in?

Excerpt from:
Evidence #3: Meet Carl Beringer (aka. Nigel), 'The Conscious Anaesthetist'.

[MAY EVERYBODY ELSE BE SO LUCKY, WHICHEVER PATH THEY CHOOSE TO GET THEM THERE. I AM SURE IT DOESN'T REALLY MATTER WHO YOU FOLLOW - IF ANYONE - BUT FOR ME IT HAPPENED TO BE MAHARAJI WHO GAVE THE GIFT.] My Dad says it's just some kind of self-hypnosis you could find in a book, [AND I THINK HE'S PROBABLY RIGHT. BUT WHO CARES?] [But Maharaji showed me how to and it's wonderful.]

'The Conscious Anaesthetist' - what a character you created!!

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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 13:21:35 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: 'self-hypnosis you could find in a book' left in?!
Message:
Yeah, I know what you mean, Stonor, it was surprising they left that line in. But I reckon it was either to create the impression of 'a broad church' where premies can believe what they like (provided M ultimately gets the credit) or - more likely - it was because Carl was quoting his Dad and not using his own voice:

My Dad says it's just some kind of self-hypnosis you could find in a book...

Which, of course, leaves in the possibility of his Dad being wrong. In fact, the edit which follows pretty well confirms that.

Carl wrote:
[AND I THINK HE'S PROBABLY RIGHT. BUT WHO CARES?]

Elk changed it to:
[But Maharaji showed me how to and it's wonderful.]

I think that was the most outrageous piece of creative editing to arise from the exercise. Shocking, by the lowest of journalistic standards...

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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 10:50:23 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: For God's sake spit it out, woman…
Message:
I wish I was a little stream
Flowing to the sea
And then I'd something or other
Gooroo Maharaj Jee

Lila, lila!
And his game
Has just begun.

Actually, I really used to like this song back in 1973 when I was living in Southend and only going to satsang once a week or so. I'd play it on my little cassette player and gaze at Maharaji's picture while having breakfast.

You see, we were all real premies once. Current premies seem to forget that.

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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 21:10:22 (GMT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: be
Subject: For God's sake spit it out, woman...
Message:
I wish I was a little bird
Flying free across the sky
But then, how could I see
Guru Mahaw Raw Ghee?

[Answer: Served under a silver dome, cooked to 350 deg. F, glazed and stuffed, if you can call that seeing]

He is puke, he lies --
He's a disgrace;
And he sits all day
On his bum

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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 10:20:31 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Lila
Message:
Hi Nigel,

I know the song she is going on about. Maybe someone knows all the lyrics. It starts

'He is our own Satguru, and we should love him'.
Some crap about 'brighter than a million suns'.
and 'It's his lila. And the game has just begun.'

It's amazing ancient devotional, hindu, garbage from the early 70s.

So much for the modern cult. It's the same old crap that ever it was.

Anth who once was a stick of incense burning at his lotus feet.

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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 02:17:09 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Nigel
Subject: Dirty deeds done cheaply not
Message:
Nigel,

Yes, Jim did venture deep into ELK to bring back such treasures.

But are we certain that Jim really got so tired and worn down that he had to quit the Forum?

Regardless, I think I saw Jim tooling around town the other day in a new Italian sports car.

You knows? Maybe there is gold in ELK.

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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 06:39:50 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Dirty Deeds Done To Sheep
Message:
A local radio station in Vancouver comes out from time to time with very funny 'twisted tunes', very close parodies of the originals.

One of my favourites is 'Dirty Deeds Done With Sheep'.

Steve

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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 21:22:58 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Steve Quint
Subject: I like that. Thanks, Steve (NT)
Message:
adsf
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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 03:08:20 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: AHA - That's it! - Jim's got The Word!
Message:
He dallied too long and succumbed to the dragon's breath. His heart leaped for joy (I hope Joy jumped out of the way) and his soul breathed anew...

Thanks for the warning, Rog. So how often is it safe to venture into Happyland, given this sad turn of events?

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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 03:56:01 (GMT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: I don't know how you do it!
Message:
I can not go to ELK; it is just too sweetness and light and disgusting. Those moronic 'expressions' are more than I can take; I mean, it's bad enough reading Premie baloney here, let alone in its natural state!
Be strong, Nigel, but don't spend too much time in happyland or you may have to take a break like Jim.
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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 04:10:51 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: Mickey the Pharisee
Subject: I don't know how you do it!
Message:
I guess it's the anthropological value or something, Mickey. Besides it can be funny - in a warped and sad kind of way. But lets face it, you couldn't make up stuff like that. Still there may yet be hope. Maybe by starring on this here forum, the authors (hearing by word of mouth and hoping for rave reviews) might drop by and discover the ex site. We can but hope...
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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 01:18:55 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Spooky!!!
Message:
(Fuck - I only just noticed. The above post was two years to the very hour since the Trojan Horse scam... ulp.. what's going on?)
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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 22:11:25 (GMT)
From: Rev John Hammond-Smyth
Email: pulpit@church.com
To: Everyone
Subject: The Prodigal Son
Message:
And it came to pass that in those times, Jim of Heller didst lament over the loss of his son, Michael, who had left the land of Ex-prem and had wondered unto the lands of Normalis and Worldliness to seek his fortune. And sad was Jim's lament for he sayeth to his brethren - Yeah, even though I have all mine own family of exes around me, it is Michael who I do sorely miss for only he can fulfil the need I have to heareth the ways of the Lord.

And Jim's family didst try to comfort him, saying - Ye still have us, O Jim of Heller and maybe Michael is so successful in the land of Normalis that he hath forgotten us.

But this perplexed Jim, for he did not believe in his heart that his favourite son could ever forget him. So he sent forth his messages upon the internet to Michael, begging him to make contact, but alas, no reply appeareth.

And some of the other sons of Jim of Heller spake badly about his favourite son and sayeth that Michael was only interested in the treasures to be found in the lands of Normalis and Worldliness and that Michael betrayeth his own family and maketh a pact with the Devil (whose name cannot be spoken).

And their rebukes of his favourite son didst anger Jim of Heller and he smote them with his words and didst go out into the fields, alone to seek solace. And he didst cry out unto the Lord, saying - Oh woe is me for I have lost the one son who could silence the wagging tongues of the unbelievers! Oh woe is me for I have lost my son and he didst never know that appreciation that I have for him! And he didst tear his clothes in his sorrow.

And Jim of Heller didst go back into his house after the midnight hour when all his family were asleep. And he didst go to his computer to pray that a miracle might happen therein. And lo, upon his screen appeareth an email from his son, Michael. And Michael didst write in the email that he leaveth the lands of Normalis and Worldliness and returneth home to the land of Ex-prem. And Jim's joy was so great that he woke up all of his family to tell them the good news.

And the next day, Jim sent forth his sons upon the information super highway to greet Michael who now returneth. And he didst unwrap the defatted tofu which had been saved for the wedding feasts and didst tell all his family and all of his brethren that now was the time for rejoicing and celibration for his son Michael had been returned to him.

And some of his sons sayeth - Why dost thou maketh a big fuss over Michael who didn't even give us a passing mention on his web site? Why dost thou favour him when we have never left you and have always been at your side. And why dost thou unwrap the defatted tofu for Michael?

And Jim sayeth - Behold! Here is my son who I thought I had lost but who now hast been returned unto me. Here is mine own son who will silence the unbelievers and the idol worshippers. And Jim of Heller didst declare his love for his son Michael, upon the holy stablets of Forum V.

Footnote by the Reverend John Hammond-Smyth:
'The Prodigal Son' is in my opinion, the most beautiful story written in the Bible.

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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 03:59:38 (GMT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: None
To: Rev John Hammond-Smyth
Subject: Q.Who was unhappy with the Prodigal Son's return?
Message:
A. The fatted calf!
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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 09:36:17 (GMT)
From: Rev John Hammond-Smyth
Email: None
To: Mickey the Pharisee
Subject: Q.Who was unhappy with the Prodigal Son's return?
Message:
It's lucky for him this time that Jim's a vegetarian.
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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 09:33:26 (GMT)
From: Bennie and the Jets
Email: None
To: Mickey the Pharisee
Subject: gonna slay the fatted calf tonight so stick around
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 01:26:28 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Rev John Hammond-Smyth
Subject: My House is now clean and I beg forgiveness
Message:
This sermon too shall be added to the House of Maharaji Drek.

For I have sinned by having spake badly about thy favorite (American English) son of the Heller, Michael of Ex-prem. And, yea, I was smitten by the sword of truth that Jim of Heller did wield. My wounds, though not mortal, were deep through the flesh and sinew right down to thy bone of mine.

In letters scribed on eparchment that I did receive day of yester from Michael of Ex-prem he with no malice asked that I remove such wrong things I spake of him that thy powerful search engines of Caesar still doeth find.

And though I then did spend many hours of hard toil to rid my house of such things and made it clean, I am powerless to change those search engines for they often keep the history past for far too long. Again, I did submit my cleansed pages to the great engines in hopes of making all things that were once wrong be right.

And to Michael of Ex-prem I pray and beg for forgiveness of my sins for I was but a child and did not know what I had wrought. After sundown I will hurry home and offer up to the Gods the innocent, but annoyingly barky lap dog of mine wife to atone for my evil doings.

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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 01:23:35 (GMT)
From: Michael Dettmers
Email: dettmers@gylanix.com
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: My House is now clean and I beg forgiveness
Message:
Roger,

With great appreciation, I applaud your efforts.

Thanks,

Michael

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Date: Tues, Nov 21, 2000 at 05:43:43 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Michael Dettmers
Subject: You are quite welcome. (nt)
Message:
adsf
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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 09:18:06 (GMT)
From: Rev John Hammond-Smyth
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: But please correct mine own errors
Message:
Those great engines that searcheth the cyber lands are a bit slow in updating things. It can take a few weeks on AltaVista.

By the way, could you please correct the mistake on the last line of my sermon. It should read tablets and not stablets.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 22:43:30 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Rev John Hammond-Smyth
Subject: Naaaaah, that's not it! (see above)
Message:
But an interesting theory, and beautifully written! (shouldn't that be 'tablets', or maybe 'stablets' is more appropriate in this context! ;-)
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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 21:52:43 (GMT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Michael Dettmers,did you have any comments on ...
Message:
the post from down below?

I asked a number of questions about m's drug/alcohol abuse and what was ever said or done about it.

I don't know if you saw it or not, but it's about to go off the forum into the archives....

Thanks,
la-ex

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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 01:33:39 (GMT)
From: Michael Dettmers
Email: dettmers@gylanix.com
To: la-ex
Subject: Michael Dettmers,did you have any comments on ...
Message:
la-ex,

I have been out of town for the past three days but I did copy your question and will respond as time permits. By the way, I have checked with a few people about Midge but so far no one has a clue about the story you heard. If you know her last name and where she lives, perhaps we can ask her.

Michael

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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 04:07:06 (GMT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Michael Dettmers
Subject: Midge was from Wash DC-any DC exes know her?
Message:
Michael-
Midge lived in Wash DC for a long time. She had a boyfriend Patrick OMahoney, who was sort of a 'bad boy' premie, and eventually left him for a guy named Dennis Murphy (not the cook).

I think they now live in Jacksonville, Fla., and were hosting videos a few years ago.

Any DC exes here who know her last name or whereabouts?

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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 22:30:33 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: Michael Dettmers,did you have any comments on ...
Message:
Since elan vital tries to claim that prem rawat 'always' follows a corrective 'taking a person to task' with a talk of understanding, I feel we need to have a response to that.

If his tirades were indeed what they were, and there was no habit of reasonable discussion following, then the truth about that would be very helpful to historians and those family members that are trying to help family members accept what is true versus what is the false.

This cult will outlive us. The facts will hurt no one.

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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 09:12:05 (GMT)
From: uncultivated
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: This cult will outlive us?
Message:
This cult will outlive us.

I hadn't been thinking of it that way. I figure one day we'll come up with a plan to derail the whole schmeer. Actually I think such a plan needs to be in place, well ahead of time, for an opportunity to turn public opinion against Rawat. Sooner or later he's going to make a splash in the headlines; we have to be there, ready to pounce on the opportunity, and make it count.

Quite frankly, if he is driven from U.S. soil, he will effectively no longer be our problem. I would guess that would be a first, practical step: to help him to want to leave the USA, in a hurry.

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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 09:51:38 (GMT)
From: blister cult
Email: None
To: uncultivated
Subject: This cult will outlive us?
Message:
For starters, let's beef up the server for this web site. What happens is, Time magazine cites our Ex-premie.org URL in an article, but our web server can't handle the load, as the web traffic to our domain skyrockets in response to the Time article. We lose our one moment to really make an impact on the public opinion!

Think about it. You are now looking at the one thing that can really make a difference -- this web site.

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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 10:07:08 (GMT)
From: Tim Miller
Email: None
To: blister cult
Subject: It will only become a headline.
Message:
EV and M will only get in the news when and if M makes some very BIG mistake! Otherwise there's too many other newsworthy items, like how to count votes.
Seriously, unless M gets caught murdering or something equally henious I don't see much light on this cult being shined by the likes of Time Magazine. Not even the National Enquirer. I guess we can always dream though!
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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 20:16:54 (GMT)
From: jondon
Email: None
To: Tim Miller
Subject: M won't make another mistake
Message:
M won't allow himself to be exposed to the media. He learned long ago that he looks like a big freakin' fool in front of a camera answering questions (see LOTU). He knows he can't answer the questions like: 'So where is this Peace you promised to bring to the world?' He would make an ass of himself again and that would be his one big mistake, talking to the media. He now has his own media outlets: EV, the internet sites, this is where he gets his message out.

The mainstream would eat him up and spit him out like a sour grape. If he makes one wrong move, he'll sink his ship. I'm sure the people around him, won't let him slip. Too many people protecting him, too many PR people to cover his ass. He is like a puppet on a string, like Pinnochio, wanting to become a man, but won't be allowed because he is overly protected by wise Premies who keep alive the charade of him being an enigma. I think that some of them will falter eventually and come out of hiding and help to expose the scam to the mainstream media. They know the truth, and one day they will be set free. M on the other hand, he is still just some little chicken shit from some third world dung mound, he is afraid of what will happen to him if his cult world becomes public knowledge, he Knows what will happen. And he ain't got the balls to sit in front of a camera with an interviewer and answer questions about his cult. He will run when the fecal material hits the air conditioner. Helicopter from the mansion to the airport, into the Gulfstream V, fly to Maritius, live there and on his yacht, live off his Swiss Bank stash and everyone of the premies around him who can't see daylight because their heads are so far up his arse, can go and fuck themselves, because he ain't gonna give two shits about them. Don King said it so well: 'Only in America'

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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 02:17:05 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: jondon
Subject: M won't make another mistake...and we won't either
Message:
Hi jondon,

I liked your message. It's true that the media has no interest in Maharaji because he is passe. But there will come a time, I'm sure, that he will be exposed for what he is.

I say this because there is no way any media organization wants to bother with this ''little'' cult. Too much is going on right now.

But there will come a day, I don't know when, that he will have a problem in the press.

I'm very impatient. I want him exposed NOW!! But I can't dictate what the media is interested in. Christ on a muffin, the US can't even elect a president!!

Woe are us.

I remembered today that the holidays are upon us. That can also be a triggering time. Full Moon just past. Frustration at the injustice of it all.

Chin up, jondon, we should have a president of Florida one of these days...the media will go through a slow period and we can launch an email avalanche! Patience....

Be well,
Cynthia

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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 02:30:55 (GMT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: M won't make another mistake...and we won't either
Message:
All you do is team up with other ex-cult members from other cults and pool your resources. Make an agreement that if anyone's cult gets massive media attention -- even for one day -- that everyone's collective resources are thrown at the problem while it can do some good (basically, the multi-ex-cult coalition keeps a high-capacity web server at the ready, 24/7/365 for just such an event).

It is not hard to do -- it is not out of reach.

It has never been more within reach than it is, right now. It will get closer, as more of these kinds of services are made a commodity.

The trick is to get people interested and involved.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 20:47:21 (GMT)
From: Larkin
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: There was a naughty poet...
Message:
(Apologies to R.L.Stevenson)

There was a naughty boy
And a naughty boy was he
He ran away to guruland
God's servant for to be…

And he found
That the ground
Was unsound;
That a song
Was too long;
That his prayer
Went nowhere;
That the lard
Was as hard
And unfeeling
As a coma;
The aroma
Of his feet
Less than sweet;
Heard him speaking
Found that dealing
With the hokum
And the creaking
Of the blarney
Of the swami
Was frustrating;
That prostrating
To the tub
Was degrading;
Here's the rub:
Saw his giving
Simply aiding
Sumptuous living
Of the huckster
On the hilltop
Off his bucks…
('coz The Karmic
Law of Lila states:
If masses yet have
Empty plates;
The Lord still
Gets the lolly
And the luck…)
…cash he'd scrimped and
Scraped and swept for
Dosh he'd damn-well
Nearly wept for
Till he's fucked;
Feeling brittle
Sparing little
For the raising
Of his family,
Or his needs;
All the while
The endless praising
Of the blokey
With the very hokey
Spell;
And the smell
Of the hamster
And the style
Of the scamster
In his billion
Dollar mansion
On his zillion
Dollar pension
Doing things
They dare not mention
While his sycophantic
Cronies
Still yet
Crack the whip;
Raise the monies
Fund his trip
Fuel his ego
(Quite gigantic)
And his jet...

And he stood in his shoes and he wondered…
Then he found ex-premie.org and he wandered…

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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 14:05:52 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Larkin
Subject: Larkin the rapper, now there's a concept
Message:
Nice one larkin, definitely on form with this one,
but how about some rapping eh, know you could do it,
but you're gonna have to dig out those Public Enemy and Wu-Tang albums, maybe a bit of Arrested Development vibe to lure in the new agers!
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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 17:12:36 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Larkin
Subject: Agree with Anth!
Message:
Give up the day job! And see you sometime after the first of the year, Larkin.

Marianne

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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 10:27:15 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Larkin
Subject: Wicked Larkin. Give up the day job. (nt)
Message:
...if you've got one.
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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 04:39:10 (GMT)
From: jondon
Email: None
To: Larkin
Subject: Nice rap...boom boom shhhck shhck (nt)
Message:
j
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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 20:41:44 (GMT)
From: Larkin
Email: None
To: jondon
Subject: Oh, Hamzen..! A backbeat over here please...!(nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 21:55:12 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Larkin
Subject: !!!BRAVO!!^^^^Everyone Read This^^^^^!!! (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 15:24:18 (GMT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Teeheeheeheeheehee (nt)
Message:
blank
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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 19:56:45 (GMT)
From: Brian
Email: brian@ex-premie.org
To: Everyone
Subject: New Journey and Aspirant Hell
Message:
I put a new Journeys entry online today from Darleen.

Her comment about people still being suckered into the cult reminded me of some email that I received that the sender said I could post here. It follows:

I have just discovered this site, I just wanted to say thankyou for confirming what I suspected for years. I was in a relationship, and had a child with a still devoted premie, and for all those years we were together, endured the humiliation and personal angst of being an aspirant. I fell into depression, addiction, and finally my parents enabled me to escape the lifestyle by helping me move to another state, where I have started again. I do not have any personal contact with my ex-partner now, nor does my son, but I am aware he is still in Maharaji's grip. So once again I thank you for creating this website for all of us who have been affected by this cult.

I also received some email from someone who is an aspirant. He stumbled on the site while trying to do 'online preparation' for receiving the Knowledge that his friend has been describing.

While I don't have his permission to reprint it here, I did want to share his premie friend's comment that after being exposed to the online techniques, it's now like he had 'bent his key'. Hopefully this unfortunate development will not serve to further lengthen the time that must be spent to become 'ready for Knowledge'.

Aspirants should be forewarned that reading freely what Maharaji gives 'freely' will only cause the gift to take longer to give. It's complicated being a Master...

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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 05:09:33 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: Exposure to online techniques 'bent his key'??!!!
Message:
Hi Brian,

Thanks for posting this. I was just mentioning to Nigel a few days ago that I thought there must be a lot of aspirants/ who come and read without posting, but I guess a few may have emailed the FA too. The first email you shared is a very sad story - I hope it becomes a Journey one day.

What a 'friend' that premie is! (where IS that sarcasm emoticon) I guess m needs them as innocent and naive 'virgins' to work his particular kind of 'magic'. He probably also figures that if they've already visited EPO the risks are too high that they'll spread the word - not only would they soon leave, but they might take too many premies with them.

Great work that EPO does! I hope you've raised enough funds to cover the expenses.

Say hi to Katie for me!

(BTW, do you think you should post another warning about the upcoming temporary interruption to service while you change servers? I had a real fun time again tonight trying to get that post to shp to appear, and a couple of times in between it said that the service to the server had been cut off. I had never gotten that message before so I thought it was off-line. Could it possibly have happened more quickly than expected? You mentioned a few days.)

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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 17:11:00 (GMT)
From: TD
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Maharaji's love of documentaries ....
Message:
When I was a premie, and my partner was telling me about doing service at his residence, he said that they always went and got a whole heap of documentary videos for him to watch, as Maharaji loved documentaries.

Well, last night I'm watching Discovery channel (which surely Maharaji must subscribe to, being a doco fanatic) and there was this whole program on cults. Anyway I'm sitting there watching the very sad story of the Brethren cult and the parents desperately trying to find their kids, a Jones survivor talking, the Japanese cult, and then psychologists and cult analysts talking about the whole technique and style of cults - and I'm thinking, as I always do when watching cult docos, how similar it is to M and premiedom. Anyway the thought crossed my mind, 'what on earth does Maharaji make of these documentaries' when they come on TV. Does he watch them? Does he turn them off straight away? Does he ever register how similar they are to his own situation? And what do his kids think when watching them with him, if ever they do? For example, the guy who's written a book about the Japanese guru who let loose poison on the subway said that he 'used the gift of meditation' to get followers. I mean, what does M think when he hears something like that?

All I know, is that I feel angry, embarrassed and sad when I watch these programs .... I'd love to know what M's reaction is.

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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 00:29:11 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: TD
Subject: Maharaji's love of documentaries ....
Message:
I remember seeing Ticket To Heaven, a movie back in the late 70s about cults. Afterward, I tried in vain to convince my date, who wasn't a premie, that Maharaji wasn't like that, when in reality he is SO much like that, and premies so much like the hapless devotees.

But, when you're in it, you just don't seem to know it. Obviously, you don't, and I'm certain when Maharaji sees a documentary on cults, the last thing he considers himself to be is a cult leader, like one of THEM!

Well, guess what, M. Look again. Yep, if you look hard and honestly enough, you should see yourself.

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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 20:29:12 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Does anyone remember the ''party line'' about...
Message:
...how to explain that m and k were not a cult?

As I remember it, and as I was trained as an aspirant in 1975, the answer to that was simple: Maharaji is the Perfect Master who imparts Knowledge of self. Therefore, we don't ''believe'' in Maharaji, rather we know through our experience our inner selves. Knowing is different than ''believing,'' which is what religions and cults do.

No, we had an explanation, we KNEW.

What a joke.

Cynthia

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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 19:53:51 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: TD
Subject: Maharaji's love of documentaries ....I doubt it...
Message:
Hi TD,

I doubt very much if Maharaji would make it through that documentary. Perhaps he does watch them and is so self-deluded he doesn't recognize himself as a cult leader. I recently watched that same Discovery doc recently. btw.

While watching it I didn't experience anything but an affirmation of how much I was sucked into the cult. The similarities are chilling. Yet, I refuse to feel shame about it.

I don't have any answers to your questions. All I know is I got caught up in a cult and now I'm free.

There's only one person who should (hate that word, should) be feeling shame: Guru Maharaj Ji!

And fuck him, too...

Be well,
Cynthia

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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 22:17:45 (GMT)
From: Wish
Email: None
To: All
Subject: He watches documentaries to get ideas
Message:
for his boring talks.
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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 11:36:16 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Wish
Subject: The problem is he doesn't understand much
Message:
of it quite often, and makes a fool of himself quoting things he didn't understands.

I've been ashamed so many times hearing him repeating things he didn't understand, and making terrible mistakes in his quotes !

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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 16:22:33 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Wake up you geese.
Message:
Isn’t this amazing?

Premies coming here insisting on asking people that have left the cult on what their inner experience. Why can’t you guys understand that a person can reach a stage where he/she does not want to meditate anymore? That inner experience does not mean anything. Or does having no-liege is like stamping a horse with a hot iron rod. It is over, finished, capote. Blubber is nothing but an ordinary person that shits, pisses, drinks, has a wiggle dick that he wants to stick in blondes, he is after money, cars and everything else like any other egomaniac. Just because a person has learned how to poke his eyes, ears, eat his snot before breakfast and after dinner and snore in a special way does not mean that that person has to stop eating sliced white bread.

Wake up you geese.

This is a free world and we don’t have to answer to a guru anymore. Before asking someone about his or her “inner” experience, why do not you have a look at yourselves first? And even if I did have an experience, the last thing I want to do is discuss it with a brainwashed Rawati cult member.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 19:38:49 (GMT)
From: ulf
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Wake up you geese.
Message:
hey salam
how about talking to a ex premie , about the experience, someone
hwo still meditate , but just want to know what others ex`s.
think about it .

ulf

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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 00:49:05 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: ulf
Subject: Jimi Hendrix revisited
Message:
ulf,

The first thing you need to understand is this:

When people talk about an 'experience', nobody can be sure if they're talking about the same thing. I mean, what kind of lame label is it to put on something called the experience. Yeah, ulf, I've had the experience. What about you? Are you....

experienced?

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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 18:32:49 (GMT)
From: ulf
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: if six was nine
Message:
hi jerry
i get the message, ups.ups

ulf

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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 03:41:52 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: ulf
Subject: Wake up you geese.
Message:
This is not the place to have a knowledge review. It is true that there maybe people that meditate, but you will only get feedback from them if you knew them better and most likely through e-mail. But you may get lucky. Jim is not around and someone may want to say something profound without having his head eaten.

In general, this forum is like being in a tumble drier, watch your head and find a grip before stepping in. A lot of the things that are being said by exes come from their experience with m and k and other people with k. These things are not said for the sole purpose to redicule, no sir, that is what people feel and this is the place to put it. Many people here do not think the meditation, knowledge or inner experience exist and have any value, some think the other way, I am glad of that because it shows that we are free. If you stick around you will get to know who is who and maybe you have your questions answered, but my way of thinking is that if I had an inner experience and I am convinced of it's value and it's effect on my life then why should I compare it with someone's else, that will only prove that I have doughts about what I experience and what I belive in. Be who you are and get busy kicking some big blubber's ass.

There are premie posters around that come in to give us satsang, but those are normally delt with swifftly and very effeciently by or secret agents (but then this is the speciallity of team scopio-1 usa/#qv127$)

Regards,

Salam

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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 20:30:04 (GMT)
From: ulf
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: e mail
Message:
Can i have your e mail adress?

ulf

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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 00:06:38 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: ulf
Subject: Why?
Message:
Am a nasty bastard son of a bitch(sorry mum). I have the crabbies mood. If I do find anyone to bug, I turn on myself.
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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 18:36:59 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: What premies should really ask
Message:
Premies should really ask what their master's inner experience is. I suspect it's a bit addled, what with all that Cognac and dope.
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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 18:20:54 (GMT)
From: Blue Max
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: You Goose
Message:
Naaa, I ain't gonna touch this one...
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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 23:44:55 (GMT)
From: Blue Max
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: this is silly
Message:
Cynthia,

Good one! A toast to your husband..

Blue Max

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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 20:01:55 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Blue Max
Subject: This is silly....
Message:
Hi Blue Max,

Bearing in mind the thread below about whether god is male or female, I must remind you of this:

A goose is a female goose; and
A gander is a male goose.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander?

LOLOL! Even my own husband doesn't ''get'' much of my humour, but he DOES, ''humour me!''

Cynthia

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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 09:20:55 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Honk honk
Message:
but who ever heard of a flock of ganders?
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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 10:53:19 (GMT)
From: Bongo
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Baby/bathwater
Message:
Leaving Rawat's antics out of the equation for a moment,I still think the 4Tech/K package is a legitamate entity.
It at least re-enforces the notion of 'inside', from where one can start working on building a relationship with 'outside'.
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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 23:57:00 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Bongo
Subject: Gravy/dishwater..
Message:
Bongo, I don't know what you mean by 'legitimate', but why not try some of the following:

- doing the 4-technique K 'package' in the wrong order. Last first, first last, or randomly jumbled..

- doing it all left-handed. Instead of 15 mins per technique, throw a dice to decide how long to do each..

- sealing your ears with bubblegum or close your eyes with masking tape..

- doing a 3, 5 or 7-technique K 'package' - leaving something out or slipping in an alien trick from the Mararishi or Rajneesh or someone. Play a birdsong tape. Hyperventilate. Do thirty-nine sit-ups..

- listen to heartbeat instead of watching breath..

- throw the blanket away, light a candle, keep eyes open, play some Shostokovich or Dance music..

- whistle a happy tune whilst merging with the light and take a break for a cheese and pickle sandwich..

Having tried all the above decide what, if anything, is spiritually 'legitimate', and how much was just relaxing and enjoying a bit of chilling out time...

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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 17:15:40 (GMT)
From: And On Anand Ji
Email: and_on_anand@yahoo.com
To: Bongo
Subject: Rubber Baby Buggie Bumper!
Message:
The problem is, that it wastes an hour of your day. If it isn't really doing anything for you, and you keep doing it, I mean.

I think a lot of people realized that practicing K was a waste of time, uninteresting, etc. It had the most value as a cultural artifact of being in Maharaji's world; it had no value outside that context. Plus, we were told to do it.

I wanted something sublime; that was what was advertised. It was very clear what was being sold; essentially, receiving Knowledge was the admission price to something even more prized: the company of the Satguru. The combination of all the cultural elements were supposed to deliver something that was nothing short of enlightenment.

So, no, Knowledge on its own (eyeball-pressing, ear canal thumb-sealing, tongue-curling, and breath-awareness) was of no special value -- it brought a few 'gee whiz' experiences, but maybe not as interesting as some recreational use of drugs brought.

Personally, outside of the attempt to gain something almost measurable, it was good for about six months' interest; no more than that. I think people predisposed to find in it further value will do so; I was not among them and that by rights should be the end of my commentary on the phenomena, except perhaps to comment that this had to have some kind of a physical expression to solve some practical problem, somewhere in the dim past:

I'm not a cultural anthropologist, but my guess would be that somewhere in the past the utility of keeping the eyelids from fluttering open while doing light technique was innovated and seen as a beneficial thing culturally, too (a great secret to be initiated into, at the right dramatic moment; the acolyte is already expecting something mysterious and defined; this is a great place to fulfill that expectation).
The utility of plugging the ears with the thumbs is obvious; other digits could have been used and I'd bet they were, in some sects for some periods of history. I don't have a lot to say about shoving the tongue up behind the uvula except to say it is possible to do so, and a bit astonishing that it 'works' (in the sense that one does not choke immediately!)
Holy Name (following the breath) is obvious and needs no explaining whatsoever. It is taught all the time as a relaxation technique; people have (perhaps) always held their breath during anxious moments; the practice of Holy Name is the opposite of that, although it seems to have a component at the very bottom of the breath of letting nature force the next one, instead of a more natural breathing pattern.
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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 19:46:51 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: And On Anand Ji
Subject: E.A.R. Plugs!
Message:
Hi,

When I received the knowledge techniques, I remembered that I had already experienced light in my head, all by myself when I was a kid.

He had nothing to do with it and the techniques are available anywhere. Because my husband snores, I sleep with ear plugs. Do I receive divine experiences during the night? No. Sometimes I have nightmares, just like everyone else does in the world.

The glitch in this whole creepy matter is the issue of devotion and how integral devotion to the ''Master'' is to ''realizing K,'' which means one MUST MEDITATE or else. He doesn't even call it meditation anymore, just ''practicing.''

After coming to my own conclusions about the fraud and betrayer maharaji is, I feel a great relief, because I don't want to waste any moments of my day practicing K techniques. He glued M and K together so tightly in the cult, and still does, so I avoid the techniques.

It was the disappearance of my (previously) intense guilt for not practicing meditation that has made me feel free from maharaji. I can close my eyes and see light, but does that make it a ''divine'' experience or connection? Or is it simply neurological? I really don't care. I don't practice the techniques because they came to me through that creep. I don't feel any guilt about it any more, nor do I judge what others do.

That's my relief, my refuge now. Rejecting maharaji guilt-free. I can reclaim myself in which ever way I choose.

Be well
Cynthia

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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 21:10:37 (GMT)
From: Chachi
Email: and_on_anand@yahoo.com
To: Cynthia
Subject: cannabis mandala
Message:
I would be a lot better off spending that hour (or those two hours, at beginning and ending of the day) -- reading for study. I know people who read constantly, and only serious literature and what-not (stuff that has a hard bound cover, is copyrighted, and dwells on a subject for hundreds of pages). How many books can a person read in a lifetime? Not that many. How many if they also try to waste two hours a day doing absolutely nothing, in addition to the times they sleep or goof off? Not that many.

What? And then rush around trying to get real shit done, after languishing in the empty pit of madipal? And during: Fighting every thing -- noises, privacy and secrecy, the absurdity of it all. Then, all the internal stuph: can't think about this and can't think about that. I don't think so.

I can sit still better than anyone, though :) Big fucking deal. Oh yeah, roll up that sleeve. Let's feel that bulging spiritual muscle you got there, holi Ji. Oh, you're such a premie; you're so focused. Seems to me that narration kind of suggests the pooch has already been screwed.

What a stupid, cyclical game. Like playing hide and seek with existence. Feh.

I think there's a dangerous precedent in concentrating on absolutely nothing. There's always something, in concentration -- I have to admit that, because honesty says so. So -- I might as well struggle with something of utility or substance; I'm better off looking at art if I need 'meaning'. Hell I don't even look at my fish tank very much. When I do, I like to think back millions and millions of years ago, when everything in there was the same as it is now: the fish, the rocks, the water, the plants, the gas exchange, the nitrogen cycle. Everything but the tank and pump and tchochkes and me.

In short, this is the 21st century; we and our inventions and thoughts are worth marveling at; and there is great dread (that fucking weasel trying to squeek into the White House comes sharply to mind). I don't see any LGM buzzing the neighborhood.

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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 01:15:09 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Chachi
Subject: Nice post, Chachi
Message:
You new here?

. Let's feel that bulging spiritual muscle you got there, holi Ji.

Love it!

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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 07:46:46 (GMT)
From: Chachi
Email: and_on_anand@yahoo.com
To: Nigel
Subject: Nice post, Chachi
Message:
Sorry, Nigel -- just a0aji in other guise.

(If I do a fun byline I usually put in my correct e-mail address)

Glad you liked the post!

[Joanie Apter loves] Chachi

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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 16:54:25 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Bongo
Subject: My Two Cents Worth
Message:
I am always grateful when someone brings up this topic. It is one of the few areas of the whole trip that I have thought a lot about during the six weeks that I have been on the board.

My experience is that since my first serious psychotic episode, in the spring of 1979, less than two years after being shown the four techniques, I have been meditating about five to ten minutes a day some days, not at all other days, using no hand postures.

What caused me to have the aforementioned psychotic episode, which, by the way, could have killed me, and in which I broke several bones in my body including my heel bone, is that I was practicing up to four hours a day using the four techniques in order to try and overcome the depression and confusion I was experiencing in my life. Some premies were saying that m would be happy if premies could practice four hours a day so I thought this would be the ticket to happiness.

What happened instead was that I became stranger and stranger in my behavior but not happier. So I did something strange, jump off a second-story balcony about five times, thinking I would transport to London where m was about to speak at the time. I did this because of one or two stories I had heard from premies about m telling people to do similar things.

As you probably know, in twenty-nine years of being in the west, m has spoken very very little about mental problems and what to do about them. Not only that, but he has continually over that time denigrated, put down, made fun of the human mind.

In this day and age where so much information is readily available on mental health and illness, this to me is a crime. Negligence of the very highest degree possible. It can easily be seen as disdain and contempt for those 'premies', lovers, 'devotees' who gave their lives and their money to this person who can only be seen as extremely ignorant, extremely hateful, extremely contempful, or all of the above.

Contempt breeds contempt and that is why I am here.

Yes, something happened when I received knowledge. Yes it has helped me. Yes, m has shown power in some way. Yes, this is the most confusing trip I have ever experienced or heard of. I have no evidence that knowledge comes from m. Where does it come from? He himself has said that it is already inside of every 'aspirant'. Why did I have to go through him, the devil, to receive and learn things about knowledge? This is the big mystery. To try and explain or solve this mystery I have looked to places like the Bible, for example the Book Of Revelations. They talk about things like the Battle Of Armageddon. I have no better explanation at this time. Evil teaching good? Bizarre, yes. Necessary, it seems that way. Why?

To Be Continued.

Love,

Steve

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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 04:18:17 (GMT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: None
To: Steve Quint
Subject: My Two Cents Worth
Message:
Steve, I don't know how much help you will get from the Book of Revelations; it is full of first century imagery that I really don't think anyone in our time and context can understand. My personal feeling is that it was written to comfort people during the persecutions and has more to say to first and second century Christians than to anyone today.
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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 02:53:01 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Steve Quint
Subject: My Two Cents Worth
Message:
Sorry you've recently been through some tough times, Steve. I don't know whether M made things worse for you, but he certainly hasn't helped.

Remember those lines, years ago, from 'Never Ending Well':

Who can free you from your mind
When you live benath its shadow..?
Who can show you light divine
when there's only darkness here below..?

Maharaji can with his light and love...' etc. ?

Knowledge was presented as the antidote to mind. In fact, it was M who made 'mind' the enemy in the first place (while for many of us, proper use of our minds was ultimately the antidote to M).

But to your comments here:

Yes, something happened when I received knowledge. Yes it has helped me. Yes, m has shown power in some way. Yes, this is the most confusing trip I have ever experienced or heard of. I have no evidence that knowledge comes from m. Where does it come from?

If we unpick this, Steve, what power has M shown you? You say you have no evidence K comes from M. I agree. K doesn't come from M. So why do you have the impression M has some sort of power? For me his only power lies in his power to convince others he is special in some way.

He himself has said that it is already inside of every 'aspirant'. Why did I have to go through him, the devil, to receive and learn things about knowledge? This is the big mystery.

I think calling M 'the devil' credits him with a magical power or influence he does not possess. He's just an ordinary, albeit dysfunctional bloke with an extraordinary upbringing he hasn't yet learned to deal with.

I don't think there needs to be any mystery. Once you throw out the idea Maharaji has some kind of power, the whole aspirant process is about making you passive, non-questioning and receptive to suggestion. Then, when you 'receive Knowledge' (ie. get shown some physical and mental relaxation activities) you will attribute whatever good feelings you experience to 'the Master' and any bad experiences to your own mind, or your own failure to practice properly.

To try and explain or solve this mystery I have looked to places like the Bible, for example the Book Of Revelations. They talk about things like the Battle Of Armageddon. I have no better explanation at this time. Evil teaching good? Bizarre, yes. Necessary, it seems that way.

I don't think you need to bring any of that stuff into the frame.
That's M's game, the religious ancestry, ancient scriptures, holy lineage etc. Maharaji said ask with 'the guileless heart of a child'. But if you truly examine his trip with the heart of a child, well, how would a child decribe it..?

Probably something like: 'Knowledge is just these things you can do with your breath and your tongue and your fingers...'

But there is nothing childlike about cult membership. The whole thing is quite sophisticated involving all sorts of mental gymnastics, trying to rationalise your own experiences and link them to all those satsangs Prem Rawat preached over the years.

To truly quit M's cult, I think you need to abandon M's 'spiritual' terms of reference. See him as an ordinary, deeply flawed individual who fucks with people's heads - not with malign powers, not in any cosmic or spooky way - but by corrupting their belief systems. Know what I mean?

Anyway, hang in there...

Best,
Nigel

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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 20:39:30 (GMT)
From: Lotus Eater
Email: None
To: Steve Quint
Subject: The Mirroring Effect
Message:
Steve, when you received the techniques of knowledge, you also bought a whole belief system, that in the tradition of religion grafted itself onto the belief system that you grew up with.

You are challenging the validity of your beliefs with the support of this forum.

I remember clearly (this is recent for me too), the extraordinary 'mirroring effect' that went on for a little while. Characterised for me by the thought (which was hilarious at the time) that maybe M was the living Christ, fucking with my head and saving my soul!

I have a lot of understanding of what you are talking about, I remember getting to a point, 25 years after my silly session, (also after a period of meditating for hours and hours per day) where I was sitting in the creek and sticking my head under water, hoping to break the connection I thought I had to Maharaji.

I hope I will die without ever again suffering such agonies of spirit.

Personally, as a premie, I always used to feel a bit guilty for using the techniques to send me off to sleep at night, something I did occasionally when wakeful. I was having trouble settling for sleep the other night, and did it again, worked like a charm!

Good Luck, and please, keep up the commonsense routines, good eating, a walk on the beach, whatever, Lesley

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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 19:26:50 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger@hotmail.com
To: Everyone
Subject: This Should Make Four Cents Worth
Message:
One thing that I find astonishing and extremely cruel and stupid is this time requirement. Two hours, four hours, one hour - like what do hours have to do with enlightenment? A trained plumber can do in ten minutes what would take me hours.

Has this simple fact eluded the 'Perfect What'?

Steve

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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 15:33:06 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Bongo
Subject: Baby/bathwater
Message:
Bongo,

Ah yes, the 'baby/bathwater' discussion. Believe me, this Forum has tackled that one before. Since you're new here, I'll get you up to speed.

All exes pretty much agree on Prem Pal Singh Rawat. He's out.

But after that, anything goes. Some opt for Jesus. Some for Buddha. Some opt for another living 'meditation teacher.' Some give up on guruism entirely. Some give up on God entirely. Some join the Richard Dawkins personality cult.

Which brings us to your point - the four techniques, and the inner experience. Well, Maharaji always warns his students not to talk about that. I wonder why. But since we are not exactly his star students at the front of the class, let's go ahead: Some exes still meditate regularly, using the same old tried and true light/music/holyname/nectar. Some meditate using 'word' alone. Some still meditate on light within but without any hand posturing. Some, like myself, sit and become still in the private, unspecified way that works for me. Some can't get rid of the Guru-Maharaj-Ji-associations, so they stop entirely. Some are just happier not meditating.

So what about you? Do you still plug your ears with your thumbs? If so, do you have much trouble distinquishing between the sounds of blood-rushing and angel-singing? Is your breath your favorite companion (like they say at Enjoyinglife)? And to use Anth's favorite: how do you distinquish snot from God?

You mentioned that your initial experience of the inner world during the 'Knowledge Session' left you, (how did you put it?), 'genuinely stunned and disoriented.' An odd phrase and not exactly a whole-hearted endorsement.

Do you still want to go up, up, up, infinitely up? If so, why? What do you seek inside - a whole carnival of Godness, or maybe just a little comforting?

Well, enough questions. Do with them what you will. And welcome to the discussion.

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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 21:07:43 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Way
Subject: 'Dawkins personality cult'?
Message:
Some join the Richard Dawkins personality cult.

I find the expression offensive, Way. A personality cult is what Maharaji has going for him. It compensates for the vacuity of his ideas. Is it any wonder M's addresses are a live phenomenon, and his words have never been compiled in a book?

Dawkins reputation survives or falls on the written word, on the power of his arguments. He provides evidence to support those arguments, and will graciously acknowledge an error when one is pointed out*. For me, Dawkins is only one of many biologists and other scientists providing insights into the existence of life on Earth.

Although Richard Dawkins, being influential, has inevitably attracted many supporters, both among the public and other scientific writers, it is the ideas which fire them up, not the guy's personality.

I disagree quite strongly with some of Dawkins' scientific followers (eg. Steven Pinker in 'How the Mind Work), who, in many cases misrepresent 'selfish gene' theory or over-generalise from it, and I have minor criticisms of Dawkins himself, but I really don't understand the unwarranted sniping of people who disagree with him in their use of terms like 'personality cult'.

(* I have an exchange of emails between Dawkins and a friend of mine. My friend pointed out a logical error in 'Climbing Mount Improbable'. Dawkins replied promptly, admitting the flaw, and thanking him for pointing it out.)

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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 15:37:53 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Oh, I forgot to ask...
Message:
...have you personally tried any other techniques, methods, teachers? And are you aware of the history of the four techniques? Do you know that Gurumayi teaches the same four techniques? And that they are included in the Kriya Yoga meditation in the West? One last note: there is a good summary of the history of the Radhasoami tradition linked to this website.
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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 11:31:39 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Bongo
Subject: Baby/bathwater/electrons
Message:
Hi Bongo,

I don't buy this inside/outside stuff.

It's all one- made of molecules.

Do you believe that what you experience when you practice is something like your innermost self- god within- that sort of stuff?

Anth the Electron

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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 15:54:24 (GMT)
From: ulf
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Baby/bathwater/electrons
Message:
hello Anth
What do you belive or think you experience when you
practice, is it all just mental activity, or is it ????????

Regards Ulf

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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 16:03:53 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: ulf
Subject: Report from the Void.
Message:
Hi ulf,

I'll whip through the techniques and describe what I experience.

1st technique- orangy, yellowy patterns- with those transparent microbes floating past- the ones you see when you lay on your back and look at the sky.

2nd technique
sort of low rumble/hum- probably blood going through my eardrum.

3rd technique
I'm conscious of myself breathing.

4th technique
snot.

When I was a premie I was told that these experiences were divine, and if I didn't experience them as such, then it was my own lack of devotion/effort etc.

But thankfully, I've escaped my conditioning and no longer believe that bullshit.

What do you experience ulf?

Anth the snotty

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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 20:26:21 (GMT)
From: ulf
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Report from the Void.
Message:
Hey anth
I dont now what it is that i am experience when i practice,
i know (at last) that it is nothing that comes from maharaj
But after i got out of the cult, my whole idea of meditation
is almost gone
I am so tired of reading or hearing of things like :
My true self, inner experience,,the goal of human life ect. ect.

Still i find myself doing meditation, and sometimes it is nice
just like i did when i was a premie,
One day i think that it is very importent to me ,and next day i say it is all a part of my delusion, my brainwash,that i got in the movement,
But thanks for the answer

Ulf

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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 16:05:19 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: ulf
Subject: The Joy of Not Meditating
Message:
Hi ulf,

For about a year after I quit (and occasionally when I still remember) I got a real kick out of going to sleep at night, and getting up in the morning without doing any meditation and without feeling any guilt.

Aside from the odd occasion (like when prompted by your question), I find the general quality of life much better without poking my eyeballs, stuffing my thumbs in my ears, following my breath or bending my tongue back.

My general opinionm after trying it for 25 years, then stopping, is that it's a complete waste of time, and if you're a premie, it's tangled up with Maharaji's wishy-washy conditioning.

I think it should be banned, along with the Jerry Springer show and Big Macs.

Anth who should also be banned.

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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 17:17:27 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: To ulf
Message:
ulf,

whether meditation works or not that can be a personal question and an subject to be verified. As I said before, it is your option to meditate or not. Anth does not think that meditation is his worthwhile but that does not mean you have to follow suit. I think it is very important to understand that we have a choice. I general I like to seperate meditation from m. My stay here is to contribute to bringing his castle down and that is what I intend to do. Do not be swayed by what people say, or fall into the same trap the m set for us by asking us not to question why things are different from what he says. Use your mind, it was made for this thing.

Salam

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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 12:21:18 (GMT)
From: ulf
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: to salem and a.j w
Message:
thanks for your answers.

ulf

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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 02:40:57 (GMT)
From: Peter Howie
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: The gender thing - the guru is a bloke
Message:
One thing that never made sense to me and I could never, ever explain in any meaningful manner was why the guru is always a man/bloke/guy/male - at least not without having to buy in completely to some idea like the Hare Krishna's have about differentl spiritual roles for men and women. I used to always change the topic - e.g. reflect it back on the questioner etc. It bugged me from the earliest days. Perhaps if I had been a bit more intellectually honest it might have led me out.

I'd be curious as to how the EV mob and other premies side-step or explain this one away. How many different ways did you guys have to explain it? I don't remember MJ explaining it seriously - apart from some pretty dopey explanation when he was very young (13 or so) about 'woman brings master into the world and that is the balance'.

Cheers

Peter

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Date: Tues, Nov 21, 2000 at 07:25:43 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Peter Howie
Subject: The gender thing - the guru is a bloke
Message:
I've thought about this a lot. The explanation I used to come up with is that women evoke strong sexual feelings in men and that would be too distracting in a 'spiritual' teacher. The corollary to this is that women are stronger sexually and not as easily swayed.

My latest thought is that men are more stable mentally than women and this is important in a 'spiritual' teacher.

For what it's worth,

Steve

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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 16:21:00 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Peter Howie
Subject: Mysticism and sex
Message:
All mystical traditions, both Eastern and Western, present spirituality with a sexual analogy. All human beings are female spiritually, and God is the only male. We open our hearts to be filled with God's love, the resulting ecstasy is superior to sexual union physically.

Maharaji once said the exact same thing at a program in the West in the late 70's. It was a rare and unusual quote for him. But it is actually the essence of the Bhakti Yoga path. Rawat's path is definitely Bhakti.

In Bhakti, the guru represent the male God, and we love Him as a gopi regardless of our physical gender and orientation. Of course a male guru makes more sense but isn't necessary.

There are now many female gurus. Gangaji and that weird Chinese restauranteur should both be mentioned, along with the others below. All of them present themselves as the Beloved, but usually as the 'Mother' aspect of God, who we approach as a child seeking protective love. But as we all know, there are other, less tame, aspects to females and Shiva could certainly be approached in the same manner that dominatrists (sp?) are approached by males.

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Date: Tues, Nov 21, 2000 at 06:58:35 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Way
Subject: Mysticism and sex
Message:
There are now many female gurus. Gangaji and that weird Chinese restauranteur should both be mentioned, along with the others below.

Is this restauranteur something like the soup nazi?

Steve

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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 11:33:52 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Peter Howie
Subject: God is a man.
Message:
Hi Peter,

didn't you know that God is a man? I saw a painting of him by Michaelangelo- he's definitely a bloke.

Anth who is also a bloke.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 12:53:55 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: God is a man. I agree
Message:
Only a dickhead can make a world with blubber in it. god is a dickhead.
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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 05:44:56 (GMT)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: Peter Howie
Subject: The gender thing - the guru is a bloke
Message:
I never had to explain it to anyone but myself. I hate to say it but maharaji's explanation that was printed in the book 'Who Is Guru Maharaj Ji' (and I think the source you're mentioning), was the rationalization I adopted. Also, I considered that maharaji's gender might have been a coincidence.

The reasoning he used to explain away women was as weak as all the other cult reasoning. It's embarrassing to have believed any of it.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 02:58:28 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Peter Howie
Subject: The gender thing - the guru is a bloke
Message:
I thought God was a 'He' so the incarnation of God would be a he too.

Looking at it socioligically; in India, women are a lower form of life and they could never aspire to being a guru unless of course they have special powers, like Mataji who is mentioned on the Incarnations of God page of my site.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 04:23:10 (GMT)
From: Peter Howie
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: The gender thing - the guru is a bloke
Message:
I like your page - wicked wit ('except... in Australia' chuckle).

Cheers

Peter

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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 03:58:00 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: C'mon Sir Dave, how can the whole be a half!
Message:
God with a 'sex', how silly ... that's why I rejected Sunday school 'indoctrination'!

BUT, what about Guru Mayi, one of Muktananda's 'ordained successors', the one who 'got rid of' her brother's 'competition'. And I'm sure I've heard of at least one other. (sarcasm emoticon)

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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 12:28:09 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: Don't be silly, Stonor
Message:
Is the Pope a Catholic? Is God a man? Of course he is. Everyone knows that, except of course the severe haircutted, feminist lesbians who can't bear to think of Him and have to change it to a Her.

God is a man, the Pope is a Man, real Priests are men and proper gurus are also men. Why? Because women can't grow long beards.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 19:37:30 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: How SILLY of me!!!
Message:
Why didn't I listen in Sunday school!!!!

What else can you wxpect from the weaker sex!

And what are REAL priests, oh superior one? ;-)

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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 16:12:39 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Excuse me, can a woman join this thread?
Message:
Sir Dave,

Have you ever seen goomraji with a beard?

Anywhooo....I'm not an atheist, but I like the John Lennon lyric:

'God is a concept by which we measure our pain.' Now that doesn't say much about male/female masters or gurus, but...

I remember the Lard mentioning the existence of women masters in the long and distant past. Can't recall their names, but I do remember him mentioning it...LIKE I believe him.....

Have fun guys.....just my 2Cents..Sir Dave, your link in this thread is very funnnnnnny........!

Best,
Cynthia

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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 18:58:45 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Cynthia
Subject: Only if she cuts her hair and wears trousers..(nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 22:50:47 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: How do you know how I look?
Message:
And all the money I spent on electrolysis to get rid of my beard ... for what? To lose my opportunity to become a guru?!!!
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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 10:07:18 (GMT)
From: Happy
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: Nirmala Devi and Guru Amma
Message:
... and don't forget about Nirmala Devi and Guru Amma - in fact, there seems to be a lot of female gurus around right now, attracting Westerners. Perhaps people got tired of male gurus, realizing that they're all shit - but they have not seen through the female counterparts yet.
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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 14:23:44 (GMT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: Happy
Subject: Guru Amma
Message:
I'm not so sure that 'Mother' Amma is a charlatan and rip off like Rawat; Sai Baba and the rest. I've been along to a couple of her events (taken by MrsT), most recently at Crystal Palace last month. It seemed cool to me. For example, her idea of Darshan is not to have the followers kiss her feet, no, Amma gives friendly hugs during darshan -- and children are welcome.

Also, her movement supports hospices; orphanages; hospitals and other good works.

Rawat is a fake, true. But what is it that he fakes? Evil and sordid little shits like him have won if they persuade you everyone is is the same. We are not.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 15:50:56 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: JohnT
Subject: Ammachi is horrible!!!!
Message:
She is horribly abusive to her closest disciples. Ugh. Ugh. Ugh. The worst kind of fraud. Please investigate further.
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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 17:00:52 (GMT)
From: Happy
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: agree completely
Message:
Way,
according to what I was told in India by the 'antiguru' B. Premanand, leader of the Indian skeptics and publisher of their paper, whom I interviewed there in January this year, Guru Amma is suspected for having her own brother, who did not believe in her, murdered... I heard a few other horribles stories about her also.

As a teenager, she and some friends made money out of pretending to be 'obsessed' by spirits. She was more or less thrown out of her village by the police.
And she has connections to the worst of them all, Sai Baba, too.

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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 09:23:42 (GMT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: Happy
Subject: sigh ...
Message:
So Little Ms Perfect is better known as 'fang' to those who get close to her. I really would like to feel suprised, but I just can't quite manage it.

Those who need to believe seem everywhere expoited by those who need to deceive. What a (sad) piece of work is man!

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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 02:02:01 (GMT)
From: Zelda
Email: None
To: thread
Subject: God is a man so that..
Message:
us girls can be his GOPIs when we realise knowledge.
this happens you know, thats why we had the Krishna Lila dancers so we would all remember that he can take many bodies and be with each of us in the bushes when he wants.

and Durga Ji wouldnt mind because he makes her eyes roll he is so wonderful to BE with.

I am surprised you guys forgot.

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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 03:23:08 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Zelda
Subject: NO WAY! I'd NEVER be his GOPI!
Message:
That's another reason why I 'cut my hair short and wear trousers' and rue the folly of my youth and the technology of electrolysis which took away all trace of my beard! (I still worry a little when you say things like that, Zelda!!! Stop scaring me!! ;-)
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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 06:23:28 (GMT)
From: Zelda
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: Krishna Lila dancers...in fact...
Message:
I was so jealous of the Khrisna Lila dancers because they had the agya of dancing with the 9 Krishas on stage and those Krishas COULD have actually been Maharmarmite --- or at least if I could be one of those he would manifest for me..

Stonor , do you know about the Krishna Lila dance troupe?? Those bitches used to perform a Bagavadgita review- like the Ice capades on stage with Mahblabla grinning in his chair.
oooohh how us housemoms hated them

We were told the lord would duplicate himself for the truly devoted devotee.

This was during the time he used to come out in his krishna outfit and dance .

lordy


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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 06:50:41 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Zelda
Subject: Krishna Lila dancers...in fact... Mahblalah? LOL!
Message:
'lordy' is right!

You know, this scene reminds me of an Indian short story I read about how this old-wealth upper-class man cashes in the last remaining family jewels to throw a final party... with dancing girls of course. He sleeps with one, dreaming of his dead wife, then goes on a last horse ride and dies. It's actually a fascinating read, but clearly m has aspired to all the usual male fantasies of power, and then some(!) despite his divine k.

(Those bitches ..., why couldn't they be satisfied with a blow-up Elvis?! No, they wanted a duplicate Mahblabla - and that's the best name I've read for him yet!)

Did the Krishna Lila dance troupe fold with the ashrams?

(You're actually pulling my leg, right? They weren't actually called the 'Krishna Lila dance troupe', were they?! And they didn't really perform the 'Bhagadavita review', did they?!)

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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 07:04:57 (GMT)
From: Zelda
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: Krishna Lila dancers...in fact... Mahblalah? LOL!
Message:
Now I dont trust my memory on all this. but I recall their act was referred to as Krisna Lila. They did a rendition of the story out of the Bagavad gita that told the story of the 9 Krishas manifesting for the gopis in the forest.
I kid you not.

The term 'review' is mine.

I dont know when they folded. As I recall they performed at guru puja in some state that was deserty. Arizona??

this bit of history doesnt come up on the forum. I think selene mentioned it once. There were videos made of the performances- they would be great to put on rogers site!!

Z

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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 21:11:18 (GMT)
From: janet of venice
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: another suicide
Message:
Sent message From:Janet
Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000, 12:43pm
To: sirdavid12@hotmail.com
Subject: add to shattered lives

In 1977, Maharaji called a program in Montreal that he named 'Peace Flight'. I caught a ride there in a van with a premie family I knew in Denver.
Once in Montreal, I got separated from them, in all the crowds and 3 days of actvities, and so failed to catch them in time to ride home to Denver with them at the close of the affair.
I remained in Montreal for some time afterward with other strays, ending up staying in a bare apartment with six other refugees of various nationalities. We scrounged for money to obtain groceries. We made toast over a hotplate by suspending bread over the burner on a bent coat hanger. One of our group wired home to Sweden for funds, and when they came, we were uniformly outraged when we learned that he had blown it all, on cocaine buys in the city, rather than using it to further our survival.

At that point, I left, hitchiking my way west to Ottowa, generally hoping to get back to Denver by some unknown chain of events.

In Ottowa, a few of the original cell from Montreal saw each other again. After randomly finding night's refuge in various premies' homes, by chance and by charity, a small collection of us found ourselves together one day, discussing how we might find ourselves a common address, and so get out of this persisent begging nightly for sanctuary in the community.
One of our number, newly joined, was a tall, slender, blond Canadian fellow named Greg Kettles. Greg was serious, austere, gravely ascetic and monklike. He was a strict Macrobiotic cook, and in his itinerant wanderings, owned only one thing he considered of value: his expensive macrobiotic utensils and cookware, which he carried in a suitcase with him everywhere. He had one set of clothes, which he was wearing, and nothing else.

Greg was conditionally willing to join our enclave, if we would lock ourselves in as earnestly as he did. He had found a house with the upstairs unit for rent, and we all went to look at it. It was warm and sunny and cute, a good match for a new premie house in Ottowa. Greg would put his belief on the line for us to make that home a reality: he would pawn all his cookware to secure a week's worth of rent for the group of us,if, in return, we were bound by the promise to go out and find paying jobs, to secure the house from then on. He did his part.He gave up his expensive cookware to secure a weeks worth of rent, and we moved in for the first week.
In fanning out into Ottowa in search of work, we were met with one ironclad law of work in Canada: no American can be hired for a job unless it can be proven there is no Canadian who can do it. There was all kinds of work, but no one would hire an American to do it. Despite genuinely searching, at week's end we could not present Greg, our unofficial Housefather, with the next weeks' rent, to continue keeping the house.
  Greg lost all that he had laid on the line. He could not retrieve his cookware. We broke up as a group, but remained in the Ottowa community for some time, forced back to begging and scrounging for shelter, by turns. Some of us did better than others. Some persuaded the community coordinator to let the strays sleep overnight in the satsang hall, until the landlord forbid it. Some survived 'rough'. I was lucky. I was taken in by a premie married couple with a baby son and I helped mom with her house work and childcare. Later, when they moved to a new house, further away, a taxi driving brother let me stay with him in his large attic rented room, closer to the hall. I felt a pang of yearning, every time I would see Greg, still without an address, and bereft of his tools. I would try to go over and talk to him, but he was solitary and distant. He knew I cared about him, but his inner vows of monkhood precluded him from getting involved with women. It was a heartbreaking impasse I could not solve.

I left Ottowa and went on to Toronto, and some time later, made my way back into the U.S.,down the east coast, to regroup with the mass premie aggregate in Miami that summer, for Guru Puja at the Miami convention center.

There, I saw again the married premie couple I had stayed with, in Ottowa. Pausing in the crowds to say hi, and to ask after people we had known, I was stunned to hear her relate this account:

After we left, Greg became even more withdrawn and apart. He seemed alienated and alienating to the community. His intensity and discipline left people baffled and somewhat scared. Still without a home, he would come banging on the ashram back door at night, ranting that the ashram was the shelter of the true devotee, and that he had to be granted entrance and asylum when no place else was open to him.
At first the housefather was compassionate and broke the rules, by relenting and allowing him to sleep inside for the night. But as Greg was not 'in the ashram', he could not permit it continually. Greg had refused to join the ashram because he viewed it as too worldly, too cushy, not seriously austere enough. He looked askance at the ice cream socials, the family structure in loco parentis, and felt it was too suburban, too soft, not truly a monastary. But as a monk, he was adamant about being granted asylum when he came begging for it.
Ultimately the housefather had to stand firm and refused his arguments to be permitted to enter.
And then she related the tormented ending:
Greg Kettles, finding himself shut out of the last place on earth he believed would take him in, went back to the vacant house he had sacrificed his only possessions for, broke in, and committed suicide in the empty kitchen, by laying his head in the oven, and turning on the gas.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 07:36:33 (GMT)
From: Tim Miller
Email: None
To: janet of venice
Subject: does a suicide count if.
Message:
the person had already quit practicing knowledge? I know of one.
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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 12:14:48 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com
To: Tim Miller
Subject: does a suicide count if.
Message:
The only reason for putting suicides on my site is to firstly, remember those people and then secondly, to illustrate as a warning to other people that Maharaji's cult is not up to helping people who are in serious distress and indeed, can actually make the distress worse.

Also, where people have truly believed that Maharaji is the Lord, this falsehood has actually pushed them over the edge as in the case that Bill Burke describes on my site.

I am not trying to score political points by other people's misery and unfortunate suicides. So please bear the above in mind.

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Date: Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 15:09:58 (GMT)
From: Bimbo
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: some comment
Message:
You wrote:
'Also, where people have truly believed that Maharaji is the Lord, this falsehood has actually pushed them over the edge as in the case that Bill Burke describes on my site.'

What about if some one commits suicide due to the loss of their belief in Maharaji and that what pushed them over the edge was nothing more or less than the fact that this 'non- cult of ex-premies' is not up to helping people, who are in serious distress and that ex-premies indeed actually intentionally makes the distress worse.

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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 03:40:08 (GMT)
From: Tim Miller
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Didn't think for a moment
Message:
that you were cheapening the passing of anyone's life by putting their story on your site. Besides, I would never offer the story I know of my friend without permission of his surviving family. Even then, I wonder if I would offer it at all as this person had stopped practicing knowledge many years before his suicide.
The rate of suicide within the general population is 1.7% The rate of course varies depending on the age group. It is noticeably higher in the difficult years of adolescense and young adulthood. And these are American figures. Still, when I think back, it sure does seem like there was more than our fair share of suicides within the group of the cult compared to the general population. Speculation on my part at best, entirely unscientific and yet I wonder.
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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 09:05:13 (GMT)
From: Bimbo
Email: None
To: Tim Miller
Subject: does a suicide count if.
Message:
a person came into the forum, was beaten up by ex-premies and since the person lost his faith and the sense of having a meaning in life, committed suicide? I have heard of only one.
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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 17:12:52 (GMT)
From: Forum Administrator
Email: None
To: Bimbo
Subject: Bimbo - is this true?
Message:
I think this statement should be verified or retracted.

You can email the Admins in confidence if you wish.

Forum Administrator

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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 13:10:57 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Bimbo
Subject: If a junkie commits suicide during detox...
Message:
...do you blame the treatment?

Anyway, as Sir Dave says, I think you're inventing this piece of 'evidence' against the forum. If the story were based on anything solid, I don't think you would be slipping it in as an aside halfway down a thread.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 15:51:24 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: bimbo
Subject: To Bimbo
Message:
Bimbo,

I am not sure what are you driving at. Are you saying that a premie came on this site, communicated with the forum, got convinced that maharaji is a shit head then that person got so disillusioned that he was driven to committe suicide?

Who is this person? When did he post? Under what name? When did he commit suicide? How did you know about it?

How come you are the only person to know about this? Because I would have thought if what you are saying is true then it should have come out earlier.

Please do not bullshit around. If you have something to say then say it, there are no secrets here. If you can’t or don’t want to then shut up and fuck off. Suicide is not something that one brags about just so that one can be noticed. Well you sure got me stirred, are you going to be a bimbo or are you going to come out and tell?

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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 16:50:32 (GMT)
From: Bimbo
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: To Salam and ...
Message:
Interesting to see the responses.
The topic seems to be about bragging about people doing suicide. (Like Tims post 'if it counts if the person is no longer practising'.
The responses are disbelieving my post.
Cold and hearthless they are saying that I am lying. Nigel question if you can blame the detox if a junkie commits suicide. What I wrote about was the tendency here to abuse any person with a different belief.

There is a saying; 'if you take the illusion from an average human being, you also take away his spark of life'. This forum is about truthfully or with lies, to take away the illusion from a group of people called premies. And if anyone objects to this, they will be kicked.

I told I have heard what I wrote: I heard it from one 'high ranked' ex-premie,who told that a premie said he would commit suicide, and after that, nobody heard from him again. This was meant as a warning not to post here anymore.

I would say if the person committed suicide, you would not hear from him again. If he did not, he would come back.

But the fact is that no one commits suicide just for one reason, but what happenes to people here, might be the crucial factor.

Anyway, none of you care.

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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 21:44:14 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Bimbo
Subject: To Salam and ...
Message:
I told I have heard what I wrote: I heard it from one 'high ranked' ex-premie,who told that a premie said he would commit suicide, and after that, nobody heard from him again. This was meant as a warning not to post here anymore.

What the effing hell are you talking about, 'high-ranked ex-premie?' (Ex-premies have no rank, since they have no organisation). Who do you mean? Who was the premie?

I would say if the person committed suicide, you would not hear from him again. If he did not, he would come back.

Why would he? Nobody is forced to post here. Most premie posters change their names regularly, so how would you know, anyway?

But the fact is that no one commits suicide just for one reason, but what happenes to people here, might be the crucial factor.

Anyway, none of you care.

I think none of us cares for idle premie speculation. That much is true, 'Bimbo'.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 16:37:45 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Salam
Subject: Bimbo won't because Bimbo can't..
Message:
Yes, it's a shabby allegation and no joking matter. Fortunately every poster to the forum is stored in the archive. If Bimbo has real data he should provide it together with the real name of the alleged victim and the alias, if one was used.

Alternatively, if he considers the information sensitive, he could email the forum admininstrator who - I know from past dealings - would treat the matter in confidence. The FA would then be able to pass on confimation.

(To my knowledge every premie suicide who has been mentioned here is/was traceable to a real person).

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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 12:18:14 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Bimbo
Subject: You are not telling the truth, Bimbo
Message:
Suicide is a serious issue. With a name like 'Bimbo' you have just copied the idea of the previous poster, Tim Miller. And you have done so to try to score some political point which is based on a lie.

That is shameful of you.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 09:39:15 (GMT)
From: TM
Email: None
To: Bimbo
Subject: Who? Not quite following you
Message:
Was there someone who committed suicide who was here on this forum? BTW, where's Steven Quint?
Ex-premies beating each other up? Where's Jim Heller?
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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 02:28:33 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: janet of venice
Subject: another suicide
Message:
I will put it on the site but I may have to abridge it slightly because I don't want anyone to misconstrue the story and think that any blame goes to the housefather of the ashram for Greg's suicide.

You see, we have to remember that the former housefather may himself read the story and we don't want him to feel remorse for something that wasn't his fault.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 16, 2000 at 03:07:29 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: another suicide
Message:
i doubt that will happen. the housefather knew all about it, the day greg's dead body was discovered, and has known, all these years. i saw him from time to time at fesivals, and he was as pragmatic as he could be. he did try to be compassionate, as far as he could be. He did permit Greg asylum in the beginning, but had to tighten up after a point.his name is not mentioned in the account. i doubt making public something he has known for 23 years would trigger what you fear. the site is,after all, about Maharaji.
I meant to illustrate the extremes to which the earnest listeners took in what they heard said, about renouncing the world, and how fanatically they tried to live it, believing they would be taken care of, and how that was betrayed when they desperately needed it. i include my experience in Montreal as another matter of fact example, by way of lead -in.
and just to illustrate that the sham goes on as we speak, I see in my new mailing from Visions, today, that a whole line of souvenir products is for sale right now, just in time for the Hans Jayanti /Christmas season, bearing the legend 'even in your darkest hour, I will not abandon you', displayed in what they are erroeously calling a 'heiroglyph' on the products, which more accurately should be referred to as an acronym: EiYdHIwNaY
i have been troubling about this all day,trying to ponder a way to confront every member at Visions with their hypocrisy for their part in continuing to propagandize this lie of ther leader's.
I considered sending your site pages about the suicides to them, but only person would read it, and delete it
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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 21:44:18 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: janet of venice
Subject: Can't read the whole thing: When
Message:
did it happen Janet?

I'm working, sorry, thanks.

sb

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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 21:49:20 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: 1977, between montreal and guru puja (nt)
Message:
did you know Greg Kettles?
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Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 21:56:23 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: No, but I am counting
Message:
Thanks Janet. Just keeping track of the misfortunes.

I myself and my ex-husband tried few times...

TODAY I'M FREE!!! hahahahaha I WON!

:)

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Date: Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 14:56:23 (GMT)
From: Bimbo
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: To Sir Dave
Message:
Sir Dave
Before I received Knowlegde, I had a girl friend. I broke up with her and she tried to commit suicide. She spent more than 1 month in hospitals. I felt very guilty about that, and as a result I sïncerely prayed for the first time in my life for her well being. I also renounced my worldly life and spent 2 months in a cabin alone. My former girlfriend did pretty well, and after some years she completed her graduation of psychology at the university.
I found something within myself and was drawn to Maharaji / Knowlegde.
I have like you had thoughts in my life, of making suicide.
Why I reacted re this post was the feeling somehow that premies are 'classified' as enemies. If I made suicide, would that make you happy?. What would the reaction of ex-premies be? Maharaji of course would be the one to blame? Ex-premie clappers triumph?

I think no one except the person who commits suicide can be responsible for such an act.
In the story of janet, if the point was to make judgement about who else was guilty, it is my opinion that janet and her friends had more responsibilty than the ashram secretary or Maharaji. But can you really?

And who knows the gravity in what we write? One of the stories in your sites is so full of lies, that any idiot will understand the lies. But you don't. I might send you a mail about it. I will not post it here, because it is too gross.

I have no wish for my post to be reposted again. I did not intend to make a number of this. You did, and to say the least, I find it quite tasteless. And I did not lie. Did you guys apologize?

Bimbo, a scumbag with no credibility or a sincere human being?

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Date: Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 18:51:08 (GMT)
From: Bimo
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Just for the records
Message:
When my girfriend was at the hospital (read a mental home) I visited her several times, after consulting with her doctor. I tried to help her social life after getting out of the hospital, and when she got another boyfriend, I left for the cottage. I prayed for her every day.
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