Jean-Michel -:- Penthouse magazine Article online ! -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 16:13:55 (GMT)

__ suchabanana -:- I saw Fakiranand et al split Detroit (nt) -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 23:57:50 (GMT)

__ Bazza -:- Talking of 'exposes' in adult mags (OT) -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 23:25:34 (GMT)

__ __ jondon -:- Talking of 'exposes' in adult mags (OT) -:- Thurs, Nov 23, 2000 at 04:26:31 (GMT)

__ __ __ Bazza -:- Talking of 'exposes' in adult mags (OT) -:- Thurs, Nov 23, 2000 at 05:22:58 (GMT)

__ __ Salam -:- Your asking the wrong question. -:- Thurs, Nov 23, 2000 at 02:16:55 (GMT)

__ Bazza -:- Couple of questions -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 20:16:22 (GMT)

__ __ Nigel -:- Couple of questions -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 20:30:03 (GMT)

__ __ __ Bazza -:- So that makes it murder, right? -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 21:05:38 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Nigel -:- I am only quoting, so don't take my word on it.. -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 21:12:58 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Gail -:- Maharaji never goes to Detroit--he's afraid of -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 22:28:58 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Way -:- There is a Patrick Halley in... -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 21:46:22 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Bazza -:- There is a Patrick Halley in... -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 22:10:07 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- Might well be the same guy, after all.. -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 21:57:38 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Steve Quint -:- How Do You Link With Precision? (OT) -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 22:19:42 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- easy when you know... -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 22:35:18 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Cops in Detroit hated Pat Halley -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 21:22:45 (GMT)

__ __ Steve Quint -:- Maybe That's Why He Doesn't Drive American Cars nt -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 20:18:26 (GMT)

__ JTF -:- Let's Declare AUG. 7th to be -Rawat is a Fraud Day -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 19:31:08 (GMT)

__ __ Nigel -:- Let's Declare AUG. 7th to be -Rawat is a Fraud Day -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 20:33:41 (GMT)

__ TD -:- This is unbelievable! I had no idea how bad .... -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 17:50:41 (GMT)

__ __ Selene -:- unfortunately TD -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 19:28:41 (GMT)

__ Buzz -:- Penthouse magazine Article online ! -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 17:32:19 (GMT)

__ Nigel -:- Wow!! -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 17:17:45 (GMT)

__ AJW -:- International Latvian Pie Day -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 17:11:52 (GMT)

__ __ Steve Quint -:- What About Lithuania? -:- Thurs, Nov 23, 2000 at 08:15:08 (GMT)

__ __ __ AJW -:- What About Lithuania? -:- Thurs, Nov 23, 2000 at 08:44:11 (GMT)

__ __ Jean-Michel -:- I have a problem with shaving cream -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 17:53:23 (GMT)

__ __ __ cq -:- I have a problem with photos ... -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 18:16:52 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ AJW -:- LOL :) nt -:- Fri, Nov 24, 2000 at 13:20:15 (GMT)

__ __ TD -:- And an animated pie-throwing gif for this site! nt -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 17:46:14 (GMT)

__ __ __ Cynthia -:- AND YOU KNOW what is the sickest part of all this? -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 20:07:30 (GMT)

Larkin -:- Things beyond our ken.. -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 15:29:23 (GMT)

__ TD -:- I thought I should point out that ken means 'know' -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 15:37:58 (GMT)

__ __ Scott T. -:- I thought he was talking about a new Barbie pal. -:- Fri, Nov 24, 2000 at 05:41:34 (GMT)

__ __ Steve Quint -:- I thought I should point out that ken means 'know' -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 23:17:41 (GMT)

__ Salam -:- Things beyond our ken.. -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 15:37:45 (GMT)

TD -:- Happy Thanksgiving and some Comic Election Relief! -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 15:28:16 (GMT)

__ Robyn -:- Happy Thanksgiving and some Comic Election Relief! -:- Thurs, Nov 23, 2000 at 06:54:48 (GMT)

__ Bazza -:- Joke -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 23:31:20 (GMT)

__ Cynthia -:- Happy Thanksgiving! Great One..I'll pass it on -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 19:22:50 (GMT)

Steve Quint -:- Does Visions Doctor Videos? -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 13:46:20 (GMT)

__ PHD -:- Does Visions Doctor Videos? -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 20:40:04 (GMT)

__ __ Selene -:- One edit I remember -:- Fri, Nov 24, 2000 at 21:31:55 (GMT)

__ Lotus Eater -:- Does Visions Doctor Videos? -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 19:27:26 (GMT)

__ __ Jethro -:- To Lotus Eater -:- Thurs, Nov 23, 2000 at 07:25:19 (GMT)

__ __ __ Lotus Eater -:- To Jethro -:- Thurs, Nov 23, 2000 at 19:33:53 (GMT)

__ __ Bazza -:- Not really -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 20:46:18 (GMT)

__ __ __ Way -:- Monica Lewis alert!!! -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 21:58:09 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Bazza -:- Monica's a babe -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 22:06:12 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- Someone help this guy to the straight and narrow -:- Thurs, Nov 23, 2000 at 00:49:18 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Bazza -:- Well he's got better taste than clinton at least -:- Thurs, Nov 23, 2000 at 05:18:47 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- It could be a group thing. -:- Thurs, Nov 23, 2000 at 09:26:35 (GMT)

__ __ __ jondon -:- Not really -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 21:38:32 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Bazza -:- Crowd shots -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 21:58:32 (GMT)

__ Cynthia -:- Does Visions Doctor Videos? OOOH Yes.... -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 19:16:33 (GMT)

__ __ cq -:- Does Visions Doctor Videos? OOOH Yes.... -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 19:27:52 (GMT)

__ __ __ Tonette -:- I got my visions catalog. -:- Thurs, Nov 23, 2000 at 02:37:55 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ cq -:- I meant recording the live transmissions -:- Fri, Nov 24, 2000 at 18:21:33 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- I meant recording the live transmissions--Yup!! -:- Fri, Nov 24, 2000 at 20:49:39 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- paging Barry. You out there, Bazza? Come in please -:- Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 13:34:10 (GMT)

__ __ __ Cynthia -:- Sorry, I've been out of touch for some time now... -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 19:32:28 (GMT)

__ AJW -:- The Gospel According to John. -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 14:42:25 (GMT)

__ __ Salam -:- The Gospel According to John. -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 14:51:47 (GMT)

__ Salam -:- Does Visions Doctor Videos? -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 14:30:36 (GMT)

Salam -:- shp, you're not the only one -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 13:42:34 (GMT)

__ Steve Quint -:- What Made M Different? -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 14:12:28 (GMT)

__ __ Gail -:- There were many strange and neat things, Steve. -:- Fri, Nov 24, 2000 at 15:29:03 (GMT)

__ __ 20 years -:- What Made M Different? -:- Thurs, Nov 23, 2000 at 01:32:32 (GMT)

__ __ Salam -:- What Made M Different? -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 14:48:03 (GMT)

JohnT -:- Awakening -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 09:33:09 (GMT)

__ cq -:- Larkin's lookin' to his laurels! -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 18:42:40 (GMT)

__ Susan -:- wow, great job John T! (nt) -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 16:01:19 (GMT)

__ Michael Dettmers -:- Awakening -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 15:14:39 (GMT)

__ __ JohnT -:- A poem more polished -:- Thurs, Nov 23, 2000 at 21:12:19 (GMT)

__ __ __ Michael Dettmers -:- A poem more polished -:- Fri, Nov 24, 2000 at 01:47:00 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ JohnT -:- Looking forward to that! :-))) -:- Fri, Nov 24, 2000 at 15:15:47 (GMT)

__ AJW -:- Brilliant -eDrek note -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 11:15:33 (GMT)

__ __ Roger eDrek -:- This Song is now in the house... -:- Thurs, Nov 23, 2000 at 04:44:09 (GMT)

__ __ janet -:- rework the latter parts to keep meter.great! -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 11:25:31 (GMT)

__ __ __ Steve Quint -:- Hi (OT) -:- Thurs, Nov 23, 2000 at 04:41:30 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Selene -:- not sure why but that cracked me up -:- Fri, Nov 24, 2000 at 20:34:23 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Tonette -:- OMG!!!!!!!!!! Laughing here! nt -:- Thurs, Nov 23, 2000 at 10:15:15 (GMT)

__ __ __ cq -:- Haaaahaahahahahahaha!!! That was too funny!(nt) -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 18:23:02 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- LOLOLOLOLOLOL to Infinity (nt) :::)))) -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 20:17:24 (GMT)

EddyTheTurtle -:- Question to Michael Dettmers -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 09:18:11 (GMT)

__ Michael Dettmers -:- My response -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 15:10:15 (GMT)

__ __ Susan -:- interesting little darshan story -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 23:18:06 (GMT)

__ __ __ Marianne -:- If it's darshan, I never wanted it! -:- Thurs, Nov 23, 2000 at 00:54:18 (GMT)

Tim G -:- Guru Abuse -:- Tues, Nov 21, 2000 at 23:41:53 (GMT)

__ who cares -:- Guru Abuse -:- Thurs, Nov 23, 2000 at 01:37:27 (GMT)

__ AJW -:- Guru Abuse -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 14:53:33 (GMT)

__ Bazza -:- Guru Abuse -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 05:15:59 (GMT)

__ Joy -:- Guru Abuse -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 01:29:10 (GMT)

__ Windflower -:- Well it's flight and fight when one leaves... -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 01:19:38 (GMT)

__ Salam -:- It's an affirmation, an it makes me feel good -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 01:07:28 (GMT)

__ Sir Dave -:- Guru Abuse -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 01:06:45 (GMT)

__ hal -:- Guru Abuse -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 00:49:27 (GMT)

__ Selene -:- Guru Abuse *does* get boring but -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 00:11:32 (GMT)

__ __ red butler -:- The lard's first day in general pop -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 01:08:52 (GMT)

__ __ __ janet -:- oh more, more!--a new novel! DO go on. -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 08:25:50 (GMT)

__ __ __ Selene -:- haha Serves him Right -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 01:35:17 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Salam -:- Fish tank and the scab -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 03:07:42 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Tim G -:- Guru abuse..no contest -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 11:39:53 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- Didn't you know -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 11:54:56 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Tim, when I first came to this forum, -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 22:56:19 (GMT)

RT -:- take the first ... -:- Tues, Nov 21, 2000 at 23:13:36 (GMT)

__ Nigel -:- Hey - where's your contribution, RT? -:- Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 15:52:32 (GMT)

Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 16:13:55 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Penthouse magazine Article online ! Message:

Some concern I guess for EV's PR premies .... I See The Light ... In which a young journalist pushes a cream pie into the face of His Divine Fatness and gets his skull cracked open by two disciples. By Ken Kelley Tuesday, August 7, 1973, was a good day for Pat Halley. He and his comrades on Detroit's stalwart underground newspaper, the Fifth Estate, were going down to the City-County Building on a very important mission-a divine mission, you could say. Guru Maharaj Ji, the corpulent teenage avatar, had asked to be presented with the key to the city, a propaganda stunt he'd pulled off in several other towns, and a liberal do-gooder on the council had agreed to sponsor him......

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 23:57:50 (GMT) From: suchabanana Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: I saw Fakiranand et al split Detroit (nt) Message:

nt

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 23:25:34 (GMT) From: Bazza Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Talking of 'exposes' in adult mags (OT) Message:

Does anyone remember the infamous centre-spread of George Blodwell in Playgirl magazine, back in 77 or 78 ?? George was my Aspirant Coordinator back in Manchester and we were pretty shocked to see George in all his naked glory gracing the pages. Later he told us it was a fundraising venture and that he gave the proceeds to maharaji. I remember Jagdeo was in our ashram (Moorlands Road)at the time and confiscated the mag. Whatever happened to ol' George, anybody know? Wish I could get hold of a copy of that issue!!!

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Date: Thurs, Nov 23, 2000 at 04:26:31 (GMT) From: jondon Email: None To: Bazza Subject: Talking of 'exposes' in adult mags (OT) Message:

Check out ebay, they have a shitload of Playgirl (pre-80s) at http://listings.ebay.com/aw/plistings/list/all/category4946/index.html Also there are two Penthouse July 74 issues on Ebay with the article about M: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=506287867 http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=506773154 Get yours now for the low bid of 3 bucks.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 23, 2000 at 05:22:58 (GMT) From: Bazza Email: None To: jondon Subject: Talking of 'exposes' in adult mags (OT) Message:

If my wife catches me buying box loads of PlayGIRL, I'm in deep shit:) Trouble is I dont know the exact issue date and he didnt use his real name in the feature. Might give it a shot though, I would love to post the picture here - suitably censored of course. As for the other mags,thanks, I'm going for those for sure.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 23, 2000 at 02:16:55 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: Bazza Subject: Your asking the wrong question. Message:

Whatever happened to the magazine?

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 20:16:22 (GMT) From: Bazza Email: bshaw8@bellsouth.net To: Jean-Michel Subject: Couple of questions Message:

Was there any reaction from the City of Detroit after this? Did they take their keys back? Do you know how to get in touch with Pat Halley (assuming he's still alive)?

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 20:30:03 (GMT) From: Nigel Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk To: Bazza Subject: Couple of questions Message:

A couple of years ago somebody posted on the forum that Pat Halley died about a year later - possibly associated with the head injuries.

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 21:05:38 (GMT) From: Bazza Email: None To: Nigel Subject: So that makes it murder, right? Message:

That's some 'lila' - glad I'm out.

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 21:12:58 (GMT) From: Nigel Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk To: Bazza Subject: I am only quoting, so don't take my word on it.. Message:

I think Roger's House of Drek has some Halley links to some of the forum posts about this. It has been discussed at length in the past. What is new to me from the Penthouse piece is the apparent fact that Fakiranand remained on the staff giving K in Germany. Perhaps the legal stuff hit a dead end when the decision was taken not to prosecute back in '73, even if Halley later died. But the moral case against M and his org is pretty devastating, IMO.

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 22:28:58 (GMT) From: Gail Email: None To: Nigel Subject: Maharaji never goes to Detroit--he's afraid of Message:

another public humiliation. You would think that the most humble entity on the planet would not be bothered by such an event, eh? In all fairness, Maharaji was a kid when the pie incident first happened; however, he did nothing to rectify the wrong when he came of age (realized he wasn't the Lard after all). A few years back, a fellow named Bill, from Detroit, talked about it. He said that was why Maharaji never went to Detroit again. Apparently, Maharaji thinks that Detroit is the darkest city ever. Bill also expressed zeal for hurting the reporter. He said something to the effect of 'I would have done the same thing' [as Fakiranand]. We all smiled in understanding--yup, THAT WAS ME. Its Soooooo Ugly--what a cult does to a person...

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 21:46:22 (GMT) From: Way Email: None To: Nigel Subject: There is a Patrick Halley in... Message:

...Detroit, address and phone number still listed. I will send him a short note, asking if he is the one we fondly remember.

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 22:10:07 (GMT) From: Bazza Email: bshaw8@bellsouth.net To: Way Subject: There is a Patrick Halley in... Message:

Way could you email me? Need you to ask Pat something specific. Thanks.

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 21:57:38 (GMT) From: Nigel Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk To: Way Subject: Might well be the same guy, after all.. Message:

Roger says he's still alive. Here's the link to the archive page from May last year.

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 22:19:42 (GMT) From: Steve Quint Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com To: Nigel Subject: How Do You Link With Precision? (OT) Message:

How do you link with such precision to the exact paragraph on the linked page? I'm impressed. Steve

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 22:35:18 (GMT) From: Nigel Email: None To: Steve Quint Subject: easy when you know... Message:

You just find the page in the archive you're looking for, click on the title in the index section so it jumps down to the post. Then copy to clipboard whatever appears in the address bar at the top of the page. Then using the format below, paste the hyperlink between the inverted commas, and your own description of the link between the > and the < / A > that come after. < A HREF='http://www.ex-premie.org/forum5/post.cgi?fcn=10'>Start New Thread< /A > [extra spaces added by forum administrator to prevent the example turning into an active link]

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 21:22:45 (GMT) From: Marianne Email: None To: Nigel Subject: Cops in Detroit hated Pat Halley Message:

As the Penthouse article states, Pat Halley worked for an 'underground' (anti authoritarian, hippie) newspaper in Detroit. The paper was always writing bad, and deserved, articles about the Detroit police. The Detroit police were not all that interested in seeking 'justice' for Pat Halley. That is what I recall from having been around Detroit when this happened. There are some other Detroit exes who post here who may be able to fill in a bit more information. Marianne

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 20:18:26 (GMT) From: Steve Quint Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com To: Bazza Subject: Maybe That's Why He Doesn't Drive American Cars nt Message:

nt

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 19:31:08 (GMT) From: JTF Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Let's Declare AUG. 7th to be -Rawat is a Fraud Day Message:

or any other name this creative group of rotting veggies can come up with...Has anyone tried to contact Pat Halley?

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 20:33:41 (GMT) From: Nigel Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk To: JTF Subject: Let's Declare AUG. 7th to be -Rawat is a Fraud Day Message:

See my post above re. Pat Halley (RIP?). I hadn't seen the other guy's name before. It might be worth checking out what he's up to nowadays.

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 17:50:41 (GMT) From: TD Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: This is unbelievable! I had no idea how bad .... Message:

... it was. God, I wish I'd had a copy of this article when I first heard of Maharaji. Poor Pat Halley. He was lucky to get away alive! Reading this article shows just how similar in fanaticism premies are to People's Temple.

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 19:28:41 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: TD Subject: unfortunately TD Message:

Reading it when I was convinced M was for real didn't help me. I read it when it first came out and many of us dismissed it as just more lila, and those people were in their minds and didn't understand the amazing experience we were having. It did of course plant seeds of doubt but I shoved them aside. And I remember how nervous premies were discussing it.

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 17:32:19 (GMT) From: Buzz Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Penthouse magazine Article online ! Message:

Fakiranand is still giving K with Bbj.

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 17:17:45 (GMT) From: Nigel Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk To: Jean-Michel Subject: Wow!! Message:

Thanks, Jean-Michel. Some additional detail there that hasn't yet appeared on the forum. In the past the incident has been portrayed as a case of a couple of bongo premies acting on their own who after the event were disowned by the Mission. These two paragraphs in particular suggest that DLM/EV still have some explaining (whitewahsing?) to do: The Mission's national headquarters in Denver issued a press release that admitted that the pair were, in fact, premies, and that they were being held in 'protective custody' at the Chicago ashram, where they had fled after the assault. The press release promised a 'full investigation' that would culminate in the culprits being 'brought to justice.' >>>> Not until I questioned Rennie Davis on the matter several months later did any semblance of truth emerge. Davis admitted that Misra was Mahatma Fakiranand, that Fletcher was St. Peter, and that both were back in the guru's good graces. Fletcher was in Denver and Fakiranand had not even been demoted from mahatmadom. He was, in Davis's words, 'shipped off to Germany, where he's still giving Knowledge.' When asked to explain the incident, Davis giggled in the peculiar manner common to most premies when in a state of divine bliss. 'I really feel Guru Maharaj Ji is doing everything,' said Davis. 'He had the pie thrown in his face, and he had Fakiranand do that -the whole thing is just one gigantic lila that operates on so many levels. I saw it more as a test for the premies than anything else. Lila, in guruspeak, means 'divine game.' >>>>

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 17:11:52 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: International Latvian Pie Day Message:

Salut Jean-Michel We should celebrate August the 7th every year as Pie Day, in honour of Pat Halley. We could have an international Latvian Festival- meetings all around the world with a commemorative 'Pieing' of a photo of the Lard. Au weekend. Anth the Pie in the Sky

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Date: Thurs, Nov 23, 2000 at 08:15:08 (GMT) From: Steve Quint Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com To: AJW Subject: What About Lithuania? Message:

My dad's dad was born there. In the town square of the capital city, Vilnius, they've erected a monument to Frank Zappa, who was of Italian descent. Steve

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Date: Thurs, Nov 23, 2000 at 08:44:11 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: Steve Quint Subject: What About Lithuania? Message:

Hi Steve, Sorry, the Latvians have it- they let us use their club in London, and when the barman goes home he gives us the keys and tells us to help ourselves and lock up when we go (honest). We even met the Prince of Burma in there one night. See if you can get to the next meeting. You never know how it will turn out- actually you can make a pretty good guess. (Nothing against Lithuania though Steve). Anth the Zeltad

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 17:53:23 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: AJW Subject: I have a problem with shaving cream Message:

and French desserts ..... Maybe chocolate could do ?

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 18:16:52 (GMT) From: cq Email: None To: Jean-Michel and Anth Subject: I have a problem with photos ... Message:

Maybe the real thing ... ?

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Date: Fri, Nov 24, 2000 at 13:20:15 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: cq Subject: LOL :) nt Message:

ha ha

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 17:46:14 (GMT) From: TD Email: None To: AJW Subject: And an animated pie-throwing gif for this site! nt Message:

nt

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 20:07:30 (GMT) From: Cynthia Email: None To: Everyone Subject: AND YOU KNOW what is the sickest part of all this? Message:

Pi, I mean Hi, Everyone, As recent as 2 summers ago, as I sat around a table in Middlebury Vermont with some old time premies talking about ''the old days,'' the story of the pieing of M came up and fakiranand's crime against that reporter. They got the story all wrong (of course), they said it was a hammer to the guys head, whatever. What's really disturbing was that they laughed and laughed and laughed about it and said, yeah, M was smart--he got fakiranand out of the country FAST. I wasn't around until 1975, so I had heard rumors about that incident, and the story probably went through several revisions. Non-the-less, that was another drip, drip, drip for me. Cynthia

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 15:29:23 (GMT) From: Larkin Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Things beyond our ken.. Message:

Do ye ken Prem Pal in his garland gay? Do ye ken Prem Pal and his wanton way? One toke on the smoke and he's far, far away With the booze and the dope(s) in the morning.. For the sound of his Name kept me from my bed And the cry of the hordes that he oft-times led 'Bholi Shri Satguroooo�!' would awaken the dead Drew me into his lair in the morning.. Do you ken that hound whose voice is death? Do you ken his sons of the peerless faith? Did he teach you that age-old trick with the breath? Did you practice in faith every morning? For the sound of his Name kept me from my bed And the cry of the hordes that he oft-times led 'Bholi Shri Satguroooo�!' would awaken the dead Drew me into his lair in the morning.. Yes I ken Prem Pal an' auld Charanand too, Apter and Dawson a-stirring the stew And it's round at the back form an orderly queue For a taste of his toes in the morning.. For the sound of his Name kept me from my bed And the cry of the hordes that he oft-times led 'Bholi Shri Satguroooo�!' would awaken the dead, Drew me into his hair in the morning.. And I've followed Prem Pal both near and far And I swear that I once saw him smile from his car (But I never once thought to search in the bar) When we vied for a glimpse in the morning.. For the sound of his Name kept me from my bed And the cry of the hordes that he oft-times led 'Bholi Shri Satguroooo�!' would awaken the dead, Melt the grease from his hair in the morning.. For I gave Prem Pal both my heart and soul Let us toast his decline with a flowing bowl No more shall we follow thro fair or foul For we woke from the dream in the morning..

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 15:37:58 (GMT) From: TD Email: None To: Larkin Subject: I thought I should point out that ken means 'know' Message:

...for those international readers not familiar with the Scottish vernacular. Nice ditty Larkie!

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Date: Fri, Nov 24, 2000 at 05:41:34 (GMT) From: Scott T. Email: None To: TD Subject: I thought he was talking about a new Barbie pal. Message:

The anotomically correct, small stature, fool-on-a-hill, Prem pal.

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 23:17:41 (GMT) From: Steve Quint Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com To: TD Subject: I thought I should point out that ken means 'know' Message:

Does this mean that in Scotland knowledge is called 'ken' and ashrams 'kennels'? Steve

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 15:37:45 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: Larkin Subject: Things beyond our ken.. Message:

For a sec. I though you were saying 'Bholi Shri Kanguroooo Tub of lardji, yeah

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 15:28:16 (GMT) From: TD Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Happy Thanksgiving and some Comic Election Relief! Message:

Hi everyone. Here's some election relief for all of you: Click here: Bush and Gore Make sure you scroll down and see them all.... Happy Thanksgiving for tomorrow - I'm a Thanksgiving Virgin - going to have my very first one this weekend, and I'll be meeting 3 exes from this site for the very first time too! We can thank the Lard that we are ex-premies (not the former Lard of the Universe, but the lard that congeals at room temperature). Havagoodweekend everyone!

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Date: Thurs, Nov 23, 2000 at 06:54:48 (GMT) From: Robyn Email: None To: TD Subject: Happy Thanksgiving and some Comic Election Relief! Message:

Dear TD, Sure wish I could be there with you all! Just getting in from a friend's b-day celebration at the Pub, danced for 5 hours! :) Happy Thanksgiving and love to all those exes you'll be meeting, think I've met most of them too. Love, Robyn

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 23:31:20 (GMT) From: Bazza Email: None To: TD Subject: Joke Message:

Apparantly the Japanese are sending over 500 cases of Viagra, beause they've heard we're having trouble with our elections.

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 19:22:50 (GMT) From: Cynthia Email: None To: TD Subject: Happy Thanksgiving! Great One..I'll pass it on Message:

Happy Thanksgiving to all, I just finished making 'punkin pies and the house smells great. I'm very grateful this year to all of you for your help, patience, and humour. I may be off-line for a day or so....hubby is jealous of my computer! The anti-techno anarchist! Really, it's time to eat and eat some more, and play outside and be with friends. IT'S SNOWING and sticking. Hooray....winter's finally here and ''stick season'' is finally over! Love, Cynthia

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 13:46:20 (GMT) From: Steve Quint Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com To: Everyone Subject: Does Visions Doctor Videos? Message:

I've had the suspicion for some time that Visions doctors videos. I got that impression because the opening shots of certain talks in different cities show similar audience scenes with people standing and raising their arms in the air in a 'bolie shri' or 'wave' like gesture. The only times I've seen m in the last few years, virtually everyone rose and applauded him in a unanimous, synchronous manner. I didn't, as I didn't feel like it. I thought something was wrong with me. Is this the ultimate in synchronicity and bringing peace to the earth? I've seen m twice in the last six years and never saw people raising their arms in the air as I have in certain videos. I've even thought that Visions is taking audience scenes from non-m events. Anybody know anything about this. Anybody here work for Visions recently or know anybody who does? Thanks, Steve

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 20:40:04 (GMT) From: PHD Email: None To: Steve Quint Subject: Does Visions Doctor Videos? Message:

Steve, Visions monitors every single word. Any reference to GM having any legal connection or control over EV is removed. Any swear words are removed. It is not kept a secret. PHD

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Date: Fri, Nov 24, 2000 at 21:31:55 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: PHD Subject: One edit I remember Message:

M was sitting around teasing the audience about leaving or not leaving the stage. It was some soutern CA event in the late 90's. Someone yelled out 'ALL NIGHT LONG' and M responded 'It's not like we are having sex here' Later when I bought the tape that part was removed.

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 19:27:26 (GMT) From: Lotus Eater Email: None To: Steve Quint Subject: Does Visions Doctor Videos? Message:

There was one video of an event in KL, the vision was regularly punctuated by shots of audience response as so many of them are, it became obvious to me that they were splicing the same shot of a woman several times. As the woman was myself, I was certain that it was the same shot, and not actually a response to the 'satsang'. From looking at the shots that come from India, I have sometimes wondered if the crowd shots aren't messed with, I really can't tell, but once you put the footage into a computer, you can make 10,000 look like 80,000.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 23, 2000 at 07:25:19 (GMT) From: Jethro Email: None To: Lotus Eater Subject: To Lotus Eater Message:

Are you from KL? I spent 9 months there(Malaysia) doing 'service' in 1981.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 23, 2000 at 19:33:53 (GMT) From: Lotus Eater Email: None To: Jethro Subject: To Jethro Message:

No, I live in Australia, quite a lot of aussie premies go to programs in KL, it's relatively close and not so expensive to get to.

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 20:46:18 (GMT) From: Bazza Email: None To: Lotus Eater Subject: Not really Message:

I've shot many hours of video myself, going back to Dortmund in 1977, right up until the aspirant pre-Knowledge pep talk in Miami Beach this year. These days its all shot on DigiBeta format and usually in iso., which means each camera has its own recorder on the back with a 30 minute digital tape. Each camera also stripes the tape with SMPTE time code, and (if things are done right) all the cameras are genlocked and time code locked, so that each tape that comes from the different cameras will have a digital time log on them, accurate down to 1 frame of video (1/30th second). The upshot of all this technobabble is that each tape can be synchronised accurately with all the others. Crowd cutaways are generally shot on a camera dedicated to that purpose, and when editing any audience reaction shot can be inserted accurately in its proper timeline sequence. However, its not uncommon practice in documenting any kind of event to make use of your 'best' reaction shots out-of-sequence. In other words, if your presenter tells a particularly funny joke but you dont capture decent reactions at that moment, you would search the B-rolls for a suitable substitute. Another use for SMPTE timecode is that it can be output to a laptop, so that a 'content logger' can make notes pinpointing key stories or phrases from his satsang and have them accurately flagged to the right point on the tape. This job usually was done by Monica Lewis. So far as your question about 'doctoring' goes, I didn't do any of the editing, that's generally done by Malcom Davie and John McNellie over at Dunrite, but from what I've seen myself on the finished product, there's nothing realy that goes beyond the normal boundaries of video production in the 'real world' Hope this helps luv b.

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 21:58:09 (GMT) From: Way Email: None To: Bazza Subject: Monica Lewis alert!!! Message:

Hey Bazza, don't drop a name like that so casually! Don't you know we're wild with curiosity about Monica Lewis? You've heard all the rumors, haven't you? What do you know? Cool that you did all that important service, and so recently! How bout a journey entry from you some day?

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 22:06:12 (GMT) From: Bazza Email: None To: Way Subject: Monica's a babe Message:

Hey I saw Monica in May this year, in Miami Beach. She's the official photographer, or one of them. She still looks hot. I remember having many distracting thoughts about her in the ashram, but at that time she was Michael Wood's girlfriend and pretty much out of reach of us plebs. The rumours about her being involved with maharaji are news to me actually, guess I was never x-rated as Michael Dettmers says. I'll be working on the journey thing over the holidays - takes a while to gather all your memories, feelings etc and put them down on paper, especilly with my typing skills.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 23, 2000 at 00:49:18 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: Bazza Subject: Someone help this guy to the straight and narrow Message:

you mean you did not know that Rawat has been banging Monica. Where have you been. It is somewhere on the site. Tell us more about her. Exuse the ignorance, but who the heck is M. Woods?

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Date: Thurs, Nov 23, 2000 at 05:18:47 (GMT) From: Bazza Email: bshaw8@bellsouth.net To: Salam Subject: Well he's got better taste than clinton at least Message:

No I didnt know m was banging monica for real, I mean yeah Ive read it here but I thought that was just you guys being naughty!!Hey you cant blame him, shes pretty cute. She's been a staff photographer for as long as Ive known her, and like I said elsewhere used to type edit notes on a laptop at programs. Me and the other productions boys used to fetch and carry for her, bringing her cokes and sandwiches, just to get a smile out of her! Anyway. Who is Michael Woods? Sheesh youve been out of touch for a while! Michael Woods is numero uno premie photographer/videographer. Hes been taking pictures of & videotaping m since the mid 70's - all those romantic close-ups, all the floating petals, clouds, streams, m. frollicking in the meadows - all Michaels work. He is always on the main camera at events, then leaves as soon as maharaji goes off for the backstage getting-into-the-limo photo opportunity. He is such a honcho, he doesnt even need a backstage pass - everybody, an I mean EVERYBODY in Security knows him and is a bit afraid of him coz of his closeness to maharaji. Now THERE's a guy we need here a la Mike Dettmers. He and Monica were an item through the 80's, dont know when they broke up but if anyone knows about her having a ding-dong with the lord it would be Michael. Shit he probably filmed them at it! Woodsie is director of Visions and (i think) Dunrite also. Nothing goes out on tape or in print without his blessings. So now you know!

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Date: Thurs, Nov 23, 2000 at 09:26:35 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: Bazza Subject: It could be a group thing. Message:

Hmmmm, intreresting in-it. There this nice chick floating around, and there is this fellow with his camera. This follow and this chick are togother working for the same man. This man wants to get under this chicks' skirt, so he befreind the fellow. The fellow is a dickhead and falls for it. The man bangs the chick. The fellow gets pissed off, so the man let the fellow do what he wants. Am scared.

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 21:38:32 (GMT) From: jondon Email: None To: Bazza Subject: Not really Message:

Bazza were you filming the crowd at an event in Miami about 3-4 years ago? And again in NY the same year? We may have been introduced.

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 21:58:32 (GMT) From: Bazza Email: bshaw8@bellsouth.net To: jondon Subject: Crowd shots Message:

Miami, more than likely. NY - no, havent filmed there for visions, just in my freelance work. If you want to email me, I'll direct you to my website so you can see if my ugly mush looks familiar.

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 19:16:33 (GMT) From: Cynthia Email: None To: Steve Quint Subject: Does Visions Doctor Videos? OOOH Yes.... Message:

Dear Steve, During the summer of 1999, Maharaji gave a live satellite feed which I watched. It was in July, I think. He ranted and raved and swore, calling premies ungrateful. How everyone was bitching about this or that...and he doesn't get one damned bit of gratitude. I saw it live. From what I heard about that particular program, some videos got sent out unedited and were recalled, clip, clip, clip, gone was the swearing. BTW, that one event is what sent me over the edge. I was furious at M, not because he swore, but because he was so crabby, mean, and to say his premies are ungrateful was beyond the pale for me. So I'm kind of glad I spent $50.00 that weekend to see the feeds. At least it ended my life with M forever. It was really weird. Love, Cynthia

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 19:27:52 (GMT) From: cq Email: None To: Cynthia Subject: Does Visions Doctor Videos? OOOH Yes.... Message:

Hey Cynthia, that kind of evidence would be worth a lot. How about videoing the next satellite broadcast? Just for a 'before and after' experiment? (can you still subscribe? - me, I ain't got a satellite dish, or a subscription, but I'd contribute toward someone archiving this kind of material) Atb, (All the best) Chris

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Date: Thurs, Nov 23, 2000 at 02:37:55 (GMT) From: Tonette Email: None To: cq Subject: I got my visions catalog. Message:

Just in time for 'holiday giftgiving!' Hardeharharhar. I would be willing to spend some bucks to get some material if anyone's interested. The transcripts of events are available for only three dollars. As for buying videos I would gag if I had to watch one. There's lots of music in this particular catalog. What I found interesting was that Dayalata wasn't featured on any CD's. I wonder why. Let me know, Tonette

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Date: Fri, Nov 24, 2000 at 18:21:33 (GMT) From: cq Email: None To: Tonette Subject: I meant recording the live transmissions Message:

What I was getting at was the difference between what he says on a live transmission, and the version that eventually appears on vid. and in transcripts. Can you record off live satellite feeds? - even only audio? (which would be enough). I would imagine so, unless there's some fancy anti-copying signal broadcast along with the transmission. Anyone tried it?

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Date: Fri, Nov 24, 2000 at 20:49:39 (GMT) From: Cynthia Email: None To: cq Subject: I meant recording the live transmissions--Yup!! Message:

Hi cq, The last weekend of satellite feeds I attended, one in which Maharaji swore and was all mad, was indeed audio recorded by someone at the house. There are warnings not to do it, and this premie was the community contact, so she just put an audio cassette into her stereo system which was hooked up to the TV and she got the audio. Unfortunately, I never went back after that. I do know that I wasn't the only person there disturbed by what Maharaji had said. It wasn't so much that he swore, it was his general tone of contempt at the premies for not showing him enough gratitude. I don't know if a video could be taped. They may have the signal scrambled. Bazza might know. Cynthia

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Date: Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 13:34:10 (GMT) From: cq Email: None To: Cynthia and Barry Subject: paging Barry. You out there, Bazza? Come in please Message:

Bazza, ref the above few posts - with your technical background you might know the answer. Any ideas? (PS I checked out your Britvid site the other day. It looked very scrambled on my browser - text obscuring your pic etc. Just thought you should know.)

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 19:32:28 (GMT) From: Cynthia Email: None To: cq Subject: Sorry, I've been out of touch for some time now... Message:

I emailed Visions months ago to tell them to take me off of their mailing list for catalogs. I also told them that ''they should know they are in a cult.'' The email response was this: ''You are removed.'' Too cold..! Love, Cynthia

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 14:42:25 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: Steve Quint Subject: The Gospel According to John. Message:

Hi Steve, Did you know that the author of the Gospel according to John was not John the Baptist? The Gospel was written about 50 years after John the Baptist died. Maharaji didn't know this, and for a few years, happily talked about, 'When John the Baptist wrote, 'In the beginning was the Word...''. Nobody had the nerve to tell him that John the Baptist didn't write part of the Bible- until one day somebody finally bit the bullet and told him- I think it was Mike Finch. The Lard's response was to tell someone to go back through all the transcripts of all his satsangs and change the innaccuracies. Anth the no longer censored.

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 14:51:47 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: AJW Subject: The Gospel According to John. Message:

With each incarnation do the change they material?

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 14:30:36 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: Steve Quint Subject: Does Visions Doctor Videos? Message:

Steve, If you go to EV web site and look at the images on the front page you will see that they are designed to give the impression of vastnees. But if you download the image and enlarge it you will notice that the small picture have been doctored. For example, in the image where there are people watching a video screen (the screen is blue), the image is supposed to be that of Rawat, but if you look closely you will see that there is nothing there, only a gost image of something. I therefore will not be surprised to know that they do doctor their videos.

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 13:42:34 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: Everyone Subject: shp, you're not the only one Message:

I'm sorry, but I still am not convinced anybody knows what is going on in the mind (consciousness?) of a Sat Guru. I mean, you are all talking about everything from the level of the physical senses, what it looks like for the outside. Where is the higher part of the mind? Don't you need a little higher mind to give you the discrimination to know what is what? Suppose, like they say in EV, this is all just a trick of the mind. I mean, how can I know that the real reason you are judging that Maharaji Ji is telling lies is not just so you will feel free to eat meat and stop doing meditation, or whatever?? Huh? I mean, what is your motive? I am sorry, I just do not feel like giving up my intuitive experiences on the basis of looking only at outer appearances. And what do you have to take its place? You can just tear something down. That's easy, but it does not get rid of the 'spiritual experiences' that some people have had. I just don't know....... thanks anybody for illumination!! Ha, you thought that was me talking didn't you, no such luck. Check: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/exsatsangisupportgroup message 7.

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 14:12:28 (GMT) From: Steve Quint Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com To: Salam and Everyone Subject: What Made M Different? Message:

I said in a recent posting that I have experienced m to have had powers. Someone questioned me on this and made me think. He always seemed much more serene and composed than anyone else, particularly in darshan line. The fact that he could sit there relentlessly for hours and remain composed impressed me the more. Could he have possibly been drugged up to get through it? What drug would have that effect? He seemed to radiate light of some kind, although, in hindsight, it was a kind of strange light, sort of like a small night light plugged into the wall in a dark room. A sickly light in retrospect, but a light nonetheless. I also have had some strange coincidences around m, particularly in Kissimee in 1978. Within ten minutes of arriving a few days early to do 'service' and waiting to register, he passed me four times in four different cars. The last time, in a jeep, he stared at me at a 90 degree angle out the driver's window while continuing to drive slowly. Meanwhile, Marolyn was staring straight ahead wearing sunglasses, looking evasive. The image has remained strong in my mind. Other examples of power include listening to talks where he seemed to refer to things going on in my life, as if he knew me. Come to think of it, I've had stronger experiences of that watching movies, but I always assumed or thought he was behind that. I stand by what I've said repeatedly, at least to the extent that I was never attracted to any other 'spiritual' leader and, God knows, there's been no shortage of them spewing out of India in the last 30 years. One explanation is that we all have powers, and m's particular powers drew me. Everyone else here is in the same boat to some extent by definition. So denial won't cut it. I also stand by the feeling and opinion that the 'knowledge' I was revealed connected me in a strong way to m, even though the connection can be seen as a sick one. I don't understand people just dismissing the past as a big hoax. The hoax is part of it, but there's got to be more, and I think it's a form of denial to ignore that. Thanks, Steve

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Date: Fri, Nov 24, 2000 at 15:29:03 (GMT) From: Gail Email: None To: Steve Quint Subject: There were many strange and neat things, Steve. Message:

We looked for answers, so we got them. It seems that we attract what we want. I don't know how it works--nobody does. We did get high. There were strange coincidences. etc. ect. There is no way to explain it or explain it away. It just was. We were willing to pay the price (ourselves), so we had a payoff--it was wonderful for a short while (sort of like heroine). There is a consequence for our addiction, however. Each of need look no further than ourselves to see what the long-term affect has been. All the best, Steve.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 23, 2000 at 01:32:32 (GMT) From: 20 years Email: None To: Steve Quint Subject: What Made M Different? Message:

I experienced a session of meditation, wherein, I rubbed my eyes and as I had my hand on my eyes I saw a projector like image in front of my eyes of cowboys and indians and newsreals. What made this even more interesting is that M was visiting one his first ashrams on Long Island within a mile of where I was, in which I had no real inkling to go to; but after seeing that, I went. This is when he rode his motorcycle in the residence. And I received 'Holy Breath' I left my body once also. My point, I believe he has power alright; but I hate to think where that power is coming from. It's not pure. Pure doesn't need drugs or wouldn't even desire them Another time, I had the worse hangover in history and went to see him anyway (laying down in the car the whole way). After I went through the 'tunnel' its like I never drank at all. All this supernatural crap kept me going for too long...

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 14:48:03 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: Steve Quint Subject: What Made M Different? Message:

No Steve, It is not denial. It is will power, persistence and the desire to break free. That is what it is. Even if what you say is true i.e. Rawat has some sort of a handle as you describe it, I believe if you want to block him it is up to you. You just have to dig up the tree, roots and earthworms to do it. The problem with Rawat is that he has set hooks in our psyche. He is a vampire that feed on our innocence when we thought he was taking us to the magic garden. Even when we break free, these hooks remain the need to be removed one by one. Sometime it feels that I can diss the prick too easily, I certainly can and I know that he has no hold on me because I had to carve him out of my life. I do not know about the rest of the troops here but I can say for myself that not in a million year Rawat will be anywhere near me. It is true, there is an experience inside you, and it is beautiful, wonderful and brighter than a thousand suns. It is the experience of waking up one day and saying I AM FREE FUCK YOU RAWAT

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 09:33:09 (GMT) From: JohnT Email: jtucker@dircon.co.uk To: Everyone Subject: Awakening Message:

AWAKENING Well, you wake with a start and a fluttering heart 'cos there's a thought that's started to gnaw at you, So you push it away but it's back the next day and then later that night it's grown fat too. It's the horror of doubt! will Maharaji find out? not only you've thought but you're feeling, And you gaze in despair through the thickening air for the Master can see through the ceiling. Yes! there's doubt in your mind - evil trickster unkind - that's your sworn implacable enemy. Now your ears start to ring and your fear that it's him, having caught the vibe of your blasphemy. For you've followed his 'truth' from since you were a youth and it's coloured the whole of your world view: Leave no doubt in your mind, was the Guru's mean bind: Know that thinking for you is my purlieu. Well, that cannot be true, a thought murmurs to you - that Rawat is a fraud, and you know it. Then the voice comes again, saying I'm your friend Ken, and just listen to me or you'll blow it. You've kissed far too much sock, and you've quite run amock with devotion and satsang and slaving. That you've given your life to a silly gobshite, makes you angry and soon you are raving. Then your anger's so vast it can't possibly last, it's too deep and too fast and too perfect, You're twisting and burning, your stomach is churning, you've given your life to the goober sect. And you just can't believe you could be so naive - it hurts to admit you were hoodwinked. Could it all be a test? Or some wierd kind of jest? No... for the truth is all clear and succinct. He was spinning to fool; capture lives for his rule; the whole point of his game was to shell you. Well, to save your esteem you fight back and you scream Ken's horrid for trying to tell you. Then you try to tell Ken he just doesn't get Zen, you know he's too in his mind to get it, The Master's reflection defies Ken's inspection; an enigma - and Ken shouldn't forget it. Yeah? So sit down, says Ken, we'll start over again, for the heat from your brain is too boiling. Look, he has messed with you, you've been played for a fool, it's your party his arti's been spoiling. He's just wordy for fools, spinning maya that pulls so you'll follow the lord with devotion. You gave up your career, at your family you'd sneer, you were hooked on the lying lord's potion. You've believed in a Lord who was never of course at all what he wanted you thinking. Then the grief comes again, you're in terrible pain and the pit of your stomach is sinking. And you're feeling ashamed though you cannot be blamed for he hooked you with tricks and with lying. And the grief sweeps over, you're hating your captor, and you're writhing and reeling and crying. As the truth now sinks in, you come out of your spin and rue sadly the wreakage of dreaming, You loved a mad piper, a poisonous viper, corrupted by lust, maya, and scheming. Now you've seen through his ruse you can only refuse to allow that his business continue, So cult busting's your song, and the world sings along, we'll have no such hoods in our retenue. You've defeated the dread that infected your head, and accepted your heart as your mind's counterpart; you've returned to the race with a real human face; not selected by God, you're an ordinary bod with a life to enjoy and a cult to destroy. His flying and yachting, his scheming and plotting, his lies and confusion, his daft self-delusion, are no fun for a lord when he's seen as a desolute drover; Oh! the journey's been hard to be free of the lard, for you followed too long (as indeed is this song) - and thank goodness they're both of them over! John Tucker With grateful acknowledgements to WS Gilbert (The Nightmare)

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 18:42:40 (GMT) From: cq Email: None To: JohnT Subject: Larkin's lookin' to his laurels! Message:

Great stuff, John But why did that that remind me of Bertolt Brecht's and Kurt Weill's (1928) song 'Pirate Jenny'?

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 16:01:19 (GMT) From: Susan Email: None To: JohnT Subject: wow, great job John T! (nt) Message:

nt

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 15:14:39 (GMT) From: Michael Dettmers Email: dettmers@gylanix.com To: JohnT Subject: Awakening Message:

JohnT, As a Gilbert and Sullivan aficionado for more years than I care to remember, I read (sang actually) your patter song from Iolanthe three times. Brilliant and very much on point. Thanks, Michael

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Date: Thurs, Nov 23, 2000 at 21:12:19 (GMT) From: JohnT Email: jtucker@dircon.co.uk To: Michael Dettmers Subject: A poem more polished Message:

Thanks Michael, I'm glad you enjoyed it. You put a smile on my face that morning. There's a more polished version at http://www.jtucker.dircon.co.uk/awakening.html. And should you find yourself singing it near a suitably equipped PC, I'd very much appreciate an audio file of your rendition... Now you've seen through his ruse you can only refuse to allow that his business continue, So cult busting's your song, and the world sings along, we'll have no such hoods in our retinue. I'd love to hear it!

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Date: Fri, Nov 24, 2000 at 01:47:00 (GMT) From: Michael Dettmers Email: dettmers@gylanix.com To: JohnT Subject: A poem more polished Message:

Thanks again JohnT. Definitely more polished. Unfortunately I'd don't have a suitable equipped PC so my rendition will have to wait for a while. To be continued ... Michael

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Date: Fri, Nov 24, 2000 at 15:15:47 (GMT) From: JohnT Email: None To: Michael Dettmers Subject: Looking forward to that! :-))) Message:

The thing is, Larkin and I are thinking of writing a musical about the, er, beat generation (I think he means us) and how they followed impossybull dreems and never lernt too spel.. We're going to call it SPAIR!, and we're hoping you're voice is a golden baritone and that you will strut your stuff for us, when we get to Broadway. We're also thinking of writing Judge Dred into it. D'you think Jim would want the part? I reckon he could be good.

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 11:15:33 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: JohnT Subject: Brilliant -eDrek note Message:

What a great poem John. I hope Roger eDrek puts it on his site. You're obviously a writer of some talent- did you do a journey yet? Anth the concrete verse and worse

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Date: Thurs, Nov 23, 2000 at 04:44:09 (GMT) From: Roger eDrek Email: drek@oz.net To: AJW Subject: This Song is now in the house... Message:

the house of Maharaji Drek, that is.

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 11:25:31 (GMT) From: janet Email: None To: AJW Subject: rework the latter parts to keep meter.great! Message:

zxcv,./asdfghjkl;'wertyuiop[1234567890-=� ������������縙��������������ƌ޷ؓ�О����ǝ����...so there. the aliens are channelling tonight...lets do that again! that was fun!�����������ƌ޷ؓ��О����ǝ��������������朮�����������������縙���n stuff

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Date: Thurs, Nov 23, 2000 at 04:41:30 (GMT) From: Steve Quint Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com To: janet Subject: Hi (OT) Message:

I just saw an Alanis Morissette video - Hand In My Pocket - and thought of you. I imagine you looking like her. Am I close? Steve

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Date: Fri, Nov 24, 2000 at 20:34:23 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: Steve Quint Subject: not sure why but that cracked me up Message:

Isn't Alannis God? I never liked her. Figures. (no offense Janet)

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Date: Thurs, Nov 23, 2000 at 10:15:15 (GMT) From: Tonette Email: None To: Steve Quint Subject: OMG!!!!!!!!!! Laughing here! nt Message:

nt

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 18:23:02 (GMT) From: cq Email: None To: janet Subject: Haaaahaahahahahahaha!!! That was too funny!(nt) Message:

my mind boggleth over ...

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 20:17:24 (GMT) From: Cynthia Email: None To: cq Subject: LOLOLOLOLOLOL to Infinity (nt) :::)))) Message:

mm

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 09:18:11 (GMT) From: EddyTheTurtle Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Question to Michael Dettmers Message:

Michael...you say that M was outright drunk five out of every seven days for years and years. Is this really serious? Could you quantify exactly what he was drinking and how much during the day? Congac? Whiskey? Gin? Half a bottle a day or more? It is impossible for anyone to function normally and rationaly in this state for such a prolonged period ...years..I guess you could really say he was an alcoholic... I am really interested in the events of the last year of Bob Mishler's time with the mission. Could you write a post about this. Exactly what went on in Mishler's mind. Apart from the major confrontation with the malibu residence, what else did he confront M with? Did Bob discuss with u M's drinking problems? What do you know about Mishler's death?. It was so sudden?. How was the news taken in the M camp?

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 15:10:15 (GMT) From: Michael Dettmers Email: dettmers@gylanix.com To: EddyTheTurtle Subject: My response Message:

Eddy The Turtle, I will briefly answer your first question now and save the Bob Mishler question for a few days until I catch-up on some of the other questions. First, let me clarify that Maharaji was not drunk five out of seven days a week. He did drink cognac every single day during the time I was around him and he always drank in the evening after dinner. Sometimes he would limit his drinking to two or three shots and that seemed to have no effect on him whatsoever. Often he would drink five or six shots, which made him slightly inebriated. Once or twice a week however, he would exceed that amount and that is when he became out-and-out drunk. Those were the times he often slurred invectives at people and situations that displeased him as I reported in an earlier post. To reiterate what I said earlier, he was never drunk or inebriated when he was flying. He always stopped drinking the night before a flight at the prescribed hour specified by the FAA. However, he often drove when he was slightly inebriated and occasionally when he was drunk. I remember an incident where he got extremely upset during dinner with his entire family at a posh restaurant in Palm Beach because he thought that Marolyn was flirting with a gentleman at a nearby table. He abruptly demanded that everyone in his party immediately leave the restaurant. He brushed aside his driver and took the wheel himself even though he was really drunk. With his entire family in the car he proceeded to their hotel which was about three miles from the restaurant. I followed in a car just behind his and was horrified to see his car swerving all over the road. It is a wonder that he didn’t crash into something or that the cops didn’t pull him over. This is just one of several such examples. Michael

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 23:18:06 (GMT) From: Susan Email: None To: Michael Dettmers Subject: interesting little darshan story Message:

He sounds like a sort of typical 'sort' of creep. Getting drunk, paranoid about his beautiful wife, and taking it out on everyone around him. I felt really sorry for the children when I read that.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 23, 2000 at 00:54:18 (GMT) From: Marianne Email: None To: Susan Subject: If it's darshan, I never wanted it! Message:

Geez Susan, calling that event darshan is chilling to me. The scene Michael described is right out of life with my alcoholic father. Your comments about the kids really hit me. I suspect some of them must struggle to make sense of this whole situation. Nothing is what it seems. Marianne

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Date: Tues, Nov 21, 2000 at 23:41:53 (GMT) From: Tim G Email: timgitti.ie To: Everyone Subject: Guru Abuse Message:

Hi everyone. I'm a starry-eyed newcomer to this site and so have a fresh perspective and there's one thing I find very counterproductive [although at times quite amusing] namely the regular diatribe of juvenile abuse of Mr. Rawat. I think if I was a wavering premie I would be immediately turned off by such name calling and feel justified in saying this was a site for 'bongos',whereas in fact there is much razor sharp insight and kindness [something always missing in DLM/EV] in the postings .Hey, I'm not coming over all Holy Joe just thinking practically.I'm thinking about a recent thread which consisted of strings of epithets along the lines of 'goofball,lard,fat one etc etc.Personally I see m as either a man totally conditioned by a weird upbringing, a charlatan, an abusive alcholic or maybe just a person who has a lot of self-development ahead and won't or can't get out of the honey-trap.But going on and on about his size is not very clever or fair to others who are fighting the battle of the bulge. Anyways Thank God for Free Speech Any comments?

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Date: Thurs, Nov 23, 2000 at 01:37:27 (GMT) From: who cares Email: None To: Tim G Subject: Guru Abuse Message:

i don't care if he's a lard, but a fake lard i despise and lard sounds like lord

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 14:53:33 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: Tim G Subject: Guru Abuse Message:

Hi Tim, Over the two or three years I've been involved in this site, by far the nastiest abuse posted here has been from premies. You need to remember that lots of us were heavily involved in the cult for many years, gave massive amounts of time, effort and cash to somebody who led us all up the garden path. It's not at all surprising that occasionaly people want to yell the odd reprimand and insult at he who believes he is god almighty. When someone has been abused, and controlled through fear- it is extremely therapeutic to stand up and tell your abuser what you think of him. Also Tim- if you count the posts on the forum, then count those that are hurling insults at the Lard, it really is a small minority. Anth the big gob ps- Are you my eldest son?

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 05:15:59 (GMT) From: Bazza Email: bshaw8@bellsouth.net To: Tim G Subject: Guru Abuse Message:

Hi Tim I'm new here too and its funny you use the term 'wavering premie' because thats what I used to post with before I made the leap into the open. In a way you're right but for me i needed answers, and there wasnt/isnt anywhere else you can go where you'll find anything but glowing praise for maharaji and knowledge, mainly because a) all those sites are owned/run or controled by the official publicity vehicle elan vital and b) convicted premies are strongly discouraged from starting their own sites re maharaji & k. even if they sing his praises in big bold letters. In other words, until something better comes along, this is th e best hope for people like me (and you???) to get an alternate view. Plus dont forget there is a wealth of invectice-free information to be read and mulled over in the main pages of this website and the EV/DLM papers, both of which are linked to at the head of this page. In fact, unless you have the direct url link to this forum, you generally go through the main page first and have to dig down a tree to find the forum. Thats what happened with me, i found this site accidentally while searching for 'maharaji' just to see what was out there and read a lot of the main body pages before finding the forum. btw how did you come across it? If you balance all the silly shit against the good stuff by Michael Dettmers and others its still very worthwhile and the rest as you say is amusing at best and irritating to premies at worst.

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 01:29:10 (GMT) From: Joy Email: None To: Tim G Subject: Guru Abuse Message:

Hi Tim. Actually I quite enjoyed that thread, it made me laugh (and I even shouted an epithet or two out myself, for good measure). It was a nice counter-balance to all the intense discussions all the time and just felt like people blowing off steam, like a bunch of little kids banding together and name-calling and rock-throwing. While it may be alienating to wavering premies or very recent ex's, it can serve a very useful function in de-programming yourself from thinking that Maharaji is God. I remember the very first time I allowed myself to think like that, less than holy thoughts about M being less than perfect, I sort of looked around to make sure I wasn't going to be swallowed up into a pit or struck down by lightning or anything. And then it was the most liberating feeling to actually be able to say and think this kind of thing about someone we revered as the Lord of the Universe for so long. It was an extreme relief and really helped put him into proper perspective. I used to get a little annoyed by Joe always referring to how fat he was, etc., I thought it was kind of juvenile, but now I see it as a sometimes necessary way of looking at and thinking about someone who is very pompous (among all the other things you described) and deserves all the dissing that comes his way (and more!).

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 01:19:38 (GMT) From: Windflower Email: windflower@gurumaharajisucks.org To: Tim G Subject: Well it's flight and fight when one leaves... Message:

kind of a counter balance to: 'You are my mother NOT, you are my father NOT, you are my brother NOT, you are my friend DEFINITELY NOT!' If I ever see him again I intend to get a slingshot and a bucketful of ghee soaked cotton balls, plant myself in a strategic stage area and have a blast .... SPLAT, SPLAT, SPLAT..... for each line of Arti ;-) Toodles, Windflower

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 01:07:28 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: Tim G Subject: It's an affirmation, an it makes me feel good Message:

Try it for a change.

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 01:06:45 (GMT) From: Sir Dave Email: None To: Tim G Subject: Guru Abuse Message:

There's some truth in what you say. The first time I read some posts on the (then) newsgroup in 1996 or 97 about Maharaji, I was shocked to read people calling him an idiot etc. Even though I hadn't followed him since 1983, I was conditioned to expect people who knew about him to speak about him with respect. I guess it takes a while for this conditioning to go away. But it is a law of nature that people who put themselves forward as something better than other people, get flak. It's bound to happen. The Maharaji I followed was a Maharaji in my imagination. In reality he was nothing like the real Maharaji. It took a while for me to accept that. Back in early 1997 I still believed that Maharaji could be the Lord. When it finally dawned on me that he wasn't, I could then understand that the name calling was not to the Maharaji of my imagination but to a rather pompous Indian man. .. Dave

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 00:49:27 (GMT) From: hal Email: None To: Tim G Subject: Guru Abuse Message:

Hey Tim, I tend to agree with you and it really was a turn off for me when I came here. I guess I've developed a tolerance towards it nowadays. However as Selene said if it assists others to vent their anger then yes ' thank god for free speech ' Hal

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 00:11:32 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: Tim G Subject: Guru Abuse *does* get boring but Message:

Some of us need to vent anger. and some of us have nothing else to contribute. I am guilty of this at times. It beats the election coverage, IMO. But I am NOT sure I agree that it is counter-productive. It helped me a lot when I first came here as a newly decided ex to read others genuine expressions of emotional anger.

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 01:08:52 (GMT) From: red butler Email: None To: Selene Subject: The lard's first day in general pop Message:

Big M squinted into the hard Arizona sunlight, 'Jesus!' he whimpered to himself, 'here he comes.' He'd spent most of the day and all of the yard period hiding but it was finally coming down. 'Going down is more like it,' he thought. Nervously he picked at a scab his nose (courtesy of his first day in the fish tank) and tried to put up a casual front. 'How's it going?' His screechy voice cracked on a high note and the big man just laughed. 'You know how it's goin' guru, it's goin IN just like last night, remember? The greasy little Indian man looked even more petrified when he perspired and now it wasn't stage lights that were soaking him to the skin. 'Mighty nice of you to pick such a cozy little spot.' growled the large man. 'Not a single guard in view.' He jerked the new inmate roughly to his knees. 'Relax, guru, you might even learn to enjoy this,' he said as he eased his huge member down the little man's throat...

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 08:25:50 (GMT) From: janet Email: None To: red butler Subject: oh more, more!--a new novel! DO go on. Message:

this is rich. i will expect a new chapter to read every evening before bed. spin us a tale. How did it all begin--or come crashing down. I await the epic. and who knows?--maybe he's reading along too.

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 01:35:17 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: red butler Subject: haha Serves him Right Message:

For dragging all those premies to Arizona in July. Day in the fish tank? It's best I don't know what that means perhaps.

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 03:07:42 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: Selene Subject: Fish tank and the scab Message:

He got his ass kicked in the locker (jail).

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 11:39:53 (GMT) From: Tim G Email: timgitti@indigo.ie To: Salam Subject: Guru abuse..no contest Message:

Whoa! I'm in a minority of 1..still it upholds my motto that 'the majority is always wrong' I'll be there in the wings Windflower to watch those ghee-balls flying but steady on Red Butler you'll be getting Jagdeo horny with that porno. Just wanted some reactions and I got 'em loud and clear. Oh Well ..Rawat you ******************** etc

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 11:54:56 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: Tim G Subject: Didn't you know Message:

I was only being nice to Rawat. In general I will go something like &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 22:56:19 (GMT) From: Cynthia Email: None To: Tim G. Subject: Tim, when I first came to this forum, Message:

Welcome Tim G. I was quite shocked at the verbal abuse and name calling of M, but after a while, like a day or so, I got used to it. Christ, we had ALTARS to him, so venting helps sometimes. It does turn off premies, I agree, but when you've been used and abused as many of us have been by Maharaji, it sometimes helps to just call him names. If you stick around, you'll find there are a lot of very funny posts and you'll get over the initial shock. Best to you, Happy Thanksgiving, Cynthia

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Date: Tues, Nov 21, 2000 at 23:13:36 (GMT) From: RT Email: omm.home To: Everyone Subject: take the first ... Message:

...commandment of Boo Hoo Maharahgee and stick in Visions' mail. Motivational Quote 'Know the true value of time; snatch, seize, and enjoy every moment of it. No idleness; no laziness; no procrastination; never put off till tomorrow what you can do today.' -Lord Chesterfield huh. I thought THE master made it up.

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 15:52:32 (GMT) From: Nigel Email: None To: RT Subject: Hey - where's your contribution, RT? Message:

It's international ex-premie poetry day today (see above). Get that pen out.

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