Forum V: Archive
Compiled: Wed, Dec 13, 2000 at 14:20:51 (GMT)
From: Nov 22, 2000 To: Dec 10, 2000 Page: 4 Of: 5


AJW -:- Bimbo and me. -:- Sun, Nov 26, 2000 at 19:47:32 (GMT)
__ Bimbo -:- Bimbo and Anth. -:- Sun, Nov 26, 2000 at 21:21:18 (GMT)
__ __ AJW -:- Answer the questions Bimbo (nt) -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 09:33:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ Bimbo -:- Answer the questions Bimbo (nt) -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 12:59:29 (GMT)
__ __ Marshall -:- Bimbo and Reality -:- Sun, Nov 26, 2000 at 23:05:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ Wondering -:- Bimbo and Reality -:- Sun, Nov 26, 2000 at 23:12:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Salam -:- While you guys at it, I want to join in -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 01:03:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Why Bimbo (Bjorn) defends Jagdeo... -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 14:54:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Monmot -:- Perhaps we should rename him Bjimbo? :) nt -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 20:24:19 (GMT)

Kelly -:- Lord or Fraud -:- Sun, Nov 26, 2000 at 19:37:04 (GMT)
__ Steve Quint -:- Lord or Fraud -:- Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 15:42:49 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- Lord OF Fraud? The Spin-King-con? or just plain... -:- Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 19:29:46 (GMT)
__ Gail -:- Lord or Fraud -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 19:13:57 (GMT)
__ janet -:- Lord or Fraud -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 10:29:43 (GMT)
__ __ Marianne -:- Hilarious, janet! -:- Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 00:02:29 (GMT)
__ la-ex -:- Lord or Fraud/ Congratulations and a few comments. -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 00:14:14 (GMT)
__ __ Kelly -:- The dynamics of delusion -:- Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 15:18:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ la-ex -:- The dynamics of delusion...revisited -:- Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 22:59:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ C.George -:- The problem with 'knowledge' -:- Thurs, Nov 30, 2000 at 04:48:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ la-ex -:- The dynamics of delusion/Innoculation!!! -:- Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 22:34:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ la-ex -:- DON'T throw out that old stuff-call JM!!!!(nt) -:- Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 22:50:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Ship it to me !!!! -:- Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 14:26:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Kelly -:- Ship it to me !!!! -:- Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 17:37:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ la-ex -:- Ship it to me !!!!/Ship,ship,ship it!!!! -:- Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 22:38:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Ship,ship,ship it to J-M!!!! -:- Thurs, Nov 30, 2000 at 02:25:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Kelly -:- I will I will I will! -:- Fri, Dec 01, 2000 at 21:44:59 (GMT)
__ Susan -:- Lord or Fraud -:- Sun, Nov 26, 2000 at 21:31:35 (GMT)
__ Mickey the Pharisee -:- Good luck to you. -:- Sun, Nov 26, 2000 at 20:08:14 (GMT)
__ __ Kelly -:- Good luck to you. -:- Sun, Nov 26, 2000 at 20:56:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ Disculta -:- Amazing! Read Kelly's post Definitely 'best of' -:- Sun, Nov 26, 2000 at 22:49:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Stonor -:- 'm's assholiness by far outweighs the holiness' -:- Thurs, Nov 30, 2000 at 04:24:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Kelly -:- Waking up from the cult-trance -:- Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 16:12:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Disculta -:- Waking up from the cult-trance -:- Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 19:16:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Salam -:- This sooo sooo beautifull -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 00:09:20 (GMT)

the -:- Question... -:- Sun, Nov 26, 2000 at 07:01:46 (GMT)
__ an -:- answer... -:- Sun, Nov 26, 2000 at 08:00:39 (GMT)

Curious George -:- Did I miss anything? -:- Sun, Nov 26, 2000 at 06:32:02 (GMT)
__ Sir Dave -:- Did I miss anything? -:- Sun, Nov 26, 2000 at 11:46:07 (GMT)
__ __ Disculta -:- Dave, did you miss this? -:- Sun, Nov 26, 2000 at 23:07:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Dave, did you miss this? -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 01:55:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Bimbo -:- Sir Dave....... -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 09:42:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Sir Dave....... -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 13:48:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Bimbo -:- Sir Dave....... -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 14:08:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- I'm all ears, Bimbo -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 18:37:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Susan -:- my journey -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 16:11:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- and what's more -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 01:58:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Susan -:- and what's more -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 05:33:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- and what's more -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 13:46:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ Salam -:- Dave, did you miss this? -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 00:19:29 (GMT)

cq -:- EV's latest newsletter will spook you, Salam -:- Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 14:48:55 (GMT)
__ bill -:- MD, see the gang of 4 part......nt -:- Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 22:03:55 (GMT)
__ ExTex -:- EV's latest newsletter SHOULD spook ALL -:- Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 21:43:07 (GMT)
__ __ Steve Quint -:- EV's latest newsletter SHOULD spook ALL -:- Sun, Nov 26, 2000 at 01:41:31 (GMT)
__ Salam -:- EV's latest newsletter will spook you, Salam -:- Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 16:21:26 (GMT)
__ Cynthia -:- What spooks me about it..... -:- Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 15:57:36 (GMT)
__ __ Salam -:- What spooks me about it..... -:- Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 16:54:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ cq -:- There was only one pair ... -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 20:32:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- To cq and Salam.... -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 23:24:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ cq -:- The Master of Freudian slips ... -:- Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 20:32:17 (GMT)

Salam -:- Learning from a distance -:- Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 11:36:14 (GMT)
__ Djuro -:- Learning from a distance -:- Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 16:17:20 (GMT)
__ __ Salam -:- Learning from a distance -:- Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 16:31:13 (GMT)
__ JTF -:- Learning from a distance -:- Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 12:06:38 (GMT)

JTF -:- Is this manipulative? -:- Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 10:39:13 (GMT)
__ Cynthia -:- Manipulation and Just Plain Weird -:- Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 20:15:27 (GMT)
__ __ Selene -:- they played games with curtains -:- Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 20:37:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ Cynthia -:- Selene, yes, an olive branch to you, too:)) (nt) -:- Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 21:58:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Selene -:- thank you Cynthia -:- Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 22:02:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- To Selene, thank you, too -:- Sun, Nov 26, 2000 at 16:47:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- To Selene, thank you, too -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 00:47:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- It's 'Bridge over TROUBLED waters', Salam -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 02:38:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- It's 'Bridge over TROUBLED waters', Salam -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 02:50:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Salam, Cynthia isn't under the bridge!! -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 03:09:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- Yes she is. -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 03:29:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Yes, you are playing with my head ... -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 03:47:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- Sorry. It's all Cynthia's falt -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 03:58:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Salam,Sorry About the Water thing, I know goomraji -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 23:32:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- Now I know everything about bridges -:- Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 02:41:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Salam: Rawat Sucks!! Like your new signature!!NT -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 02:09:34 (GMT)
__ Salam -:- Is this manipulative? -:- Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 12:07:37 (GMT)
__ __ hamzen -:- Is this manipulative?, more like desperate -:- Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 18:07:51 (GMT)
__ __ Selene -:- Is this manipulative? -:- Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 18:01:51 (GMT)

Bazza -:- To Steve Q, and everyone really -:- Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 08:03:33 (GMT)
__ Steve Quint -:- To Bazza, and everyone really -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 14:06:58 (GMT)
__ __ Bazza -:- Stupid and irritating? -:- Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 05:50:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ Steve Quint -:- Stupid and irritating and rude -:- Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 07:18:35 (GMT)
__ Selene -:- sometimes this place -:- Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 18:15:14 (GMT)
__ Tim Goulding -:- Happy Trails -:- Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 11:52:42 (GMT)
__ get 2 the point -:- To everyone really -:- Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 10:25:37 (GMT)
__ __ Steve Quint -:- Idiots Not Welcome -:- Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 07:23:31 (GMT)
__ Steve Quint -:- To Steve Q, and everyone really -:- Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 09:56:28 (GMT)
__ __ Cynthia -:- To: Bazza -:- Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 20:24:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ Bazza -:- To: Bazza -:- Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 05:53:54 (GMT)

Steven Quint -:- Call For Help -:- Fri, Nov 24, 2000 at 23:50:33 (GMT)
__ Maurice -:- Call For Help -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 02:29:28 (GMT)
__ __ Curious George -:- What's the drug? Sounds good -:- Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 05:19:49 (GMT)
__ Edy -:- Call For Help -:- Sun, Nov 26, 2000 at 15:21:18 (GMT)
__ Scott T. -:- Call For Help -:- Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 12:35:31 (GMT)
__ janet -:- Call For Help -:- Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 10:37:05 (GMT)
__ Beth Murray -:- Call For Help -:- Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 08:29:12 (GMT)
__ aussi ji -:- Call For Help -:- Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 07:10:07 (GMT)
__ Jennifer -:- Call For Help -:- Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 06:39:35 (GMT)
__ __ Steve Quint -:- Call For Help -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 14:18:04 (GMT)
__ Sir Dave -:- Images of God -:- Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 05:33:56 (GMT)
__ __ Curious George -:- Friendly, Santa-like God -:- Sun, Nov 26, 2000 at 05:28:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ Stonor -:- But we know that can't be the way it is ... -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 05:28:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ C.G. -:- But it's O.K. you just said so -:- Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 05:40:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ C.G. -:- Hi Anna -:- Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 05:30:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Hi Curious George! and Steve Q! -:- Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 22:10:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Steve Quint -:- Curiosity Is Natural And Good, So Is Creativity -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 05:50:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Curiosity Is Natural And Good, So Is Creativity -:- Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 04:47:53 (GMT)
__ __ purplewing -:- Freedom -:- Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 16:10:57 (GMT)
__ __ Steve Quint -:- Images of God -:- Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 09:38:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ Curious George -:- Don't you just hate that -:- Sun, Nov 26, 2000 at 05:44:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Don't you just hate that -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 04:48:35 (GMT)
__ shp -:- Call For Help -:- Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 05:02:28 (GMT)
__ __ ExTex -:- Brilliant Post, shp. Beautiful. (nt) -:- Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 21:06:51 (GMT)
__ ExTex -:- Call For Help -:- Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 02:58:48 (GMT)
__ __ ExTex -:- Call For Help-PS -:- Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 03:14:08 (GMT)
__ Selene -:- labels -:- Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 02:24:34 (GMT)
__ __ Selene -:- ps the UA lost and Tomey resigned -:- Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 05:17:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ ExTex -:- coincidence (ot) -:- Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 21:15:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Are you Maryse! I never know why she hasn't (ot) -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 03:15:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Selene -:- the dialog in the record store (OT OT) -:- Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 21:22:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ ham -:- The book is something else -:- Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 01:27:15 (GMT)
__ Salam -:- Call For Help -:- Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 01:52:04 (GMT)
__ __ Steve Quint -:- Call For Help -:- Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 09:42:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ Salam -:- Call For Help -:- Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 11:59:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ Steverino -:- Drek's Hall o'Shame -:- Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 10:20:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Steve Quint -:- F. O. -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 05:57:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Good One Steve....F.O. To that idiot! nt -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 19:47:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- To Steve -:- Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 17:58:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Disculta -:- To Steve -:- Sun, Nov 26, 2000 at 03:35:56 (GMT)

Bongo -:- satguru has gone..... -:- Fri, Nov 24, 2000 at 20:37:36 (GMT)
__ Bingo -:- satguru has gone.....time for me to move on -:- Sun, Nov 26, 2000 at 14:24:18 (GMT)
__ __ Bango -:- I Here -:- Sun, Nov 26, 2000 at 14:40:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ Bingo -:- hold the press.. -:- Sun, Nov 26, 2000 at 16:52:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Master Bango -:- All You Need Is Feck -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 14:46:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Master Bango -:- Don't Insult Master Bango -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 01:55:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Bongo -:- hold the press.. -:- Sun, Nov 26, 2000 at 16:56:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Dingo -:- Stop talking to yourself..nt -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 00:39:01 (GMT)
__ Salam -:- There wasn't one to begin with...nt -:- Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 07:47:45 (GMT)
__ __ ExTex -:- There wasn't one to begin with...nt -:- Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 21:58:30 (GMT)

shp -:- Reply to Disculta from the recent Inactive Index -:- Fri, Nov 24, 2000 at 18:40:16 (GMT)
__ janet -:- Reply to Disculta from the recent Inactive Index -:- Fri, Nov 24, 2000 at 19:22:09 (GMT)
__ __ shp -:- reply to janet -:- Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 04:51:32 (GMT)
__ Bazza -:- Reply to Disculta from the recent Inactive Index -:- Fri, Nov 24, 2000 at 19:07:30 (GMT)
__ Gail -:- How are you? -:- Fri, Nov 24, 2000 at 18:54:44 (GMT)
__ __ Disculta -:- Way cool! -:- Fri, Nov 24, 2000 at 19:33:49 (GMT)


Date: Sun, Nov 26, 2000 at 19:47:32 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Bimbo and me.
Message:
Bimbo appeared on the forum recently, spouting cult garbage. I asked him four questions. Our dialogue got a bit scattered, but I pulled it up as an illustration of the great difficulty that a premie has answering certain questions about Maharaji and being in a cult. Notice how, no matter how hard pressed, Bimbo continually squirms and won’t give a straight answer.

Hi Bimbo,
A challenge for you. How about sharing your divine insight and wisdom, gained from years of following the perfect master and praticing the knowledge of all knowledges, and answering a couple of questions?

If Maharaji called you up and said he had something special he really wanted you to do- is there anything you wouldn't do?

Do you consider yourself a member of a cult?

What are your three main criticisms of Maharaji?

What's the difference between a Premie and a Moonie?

No fudging now Bimbo- I don't want to hear answers like, 'I've never met a Moonie so I don't know.' You know what I'm talking about here.
Looking forward to your response.
Anth the Cadburys Fudge Bar

Bimbo replied

Anth the Cadburys Fudge Bar (does that reflect the condition of your brain?)
I find you ridiculous, and one day I will prove why to you personally. Then you will have something real to answer for.
Re your lame questions, I will not waste my time to answer hypothetical questions, but I never wrote a blank checque and I never will.
But sincerely,how do you define and experience
the freedom you found being a member of the 'non cult of ex-premies'?

Anth replied

Bimbo,
You come here asking questions, but refuse to answer them yourself.
You're a brainwashed Premie.
Why don't you fuck off?
Anth with plenty to answer for, but not to you bonehead.

Bimbo’s response

Anth, new question:
Is it a part of the 'non-cult of ex-premies' culture to dodge real questions and accuse others for what they do themselves?
Don't you yet understand how lame your questions are? (like what is the difference between an e-premie and a fungi) Who cares?
To place the same questions once is funny, twice boring and after that it really becomes pathetic.

Anths respons

Come on Bimbo, answer the questions or fuck off.
Anth who loves to watch them squirm

Bimbo again,

Hi Anth who loves to watch them (me) squirm? Really? Are you Anth the Sadist? BTW I did not squirm, I actually find you questions silly.
One question already answered. Here are the rest:
1. Q: Do I consider myself a member of a cult? A: I consider myself to be a member of the human race.
2. Q: What are your three main criticisms of Maharaji?
A: According to this site; his drinking, his role in the Jagdeo case, and his wealth. I have a philosophy not to try to judge or criticise people if I never been in their shoes.
3. Q: What I think is the difference between a Premie and a Moonie. A: I suppose a premie admires Maharaji, a Moonie admires Rev. Moon.
But what freedom do you obtain from being an ex-premie?

Anth again

Bimbo-
Question 1.
I didn't ask you if you considered yourself a member of the human race, I asked if you considered yourself a member of a cult.
Try again.
Question 2.
I didn't ask you to chose three criticisms from the site, I asked what YOUR three main criticisms are.
Try again.
Question 3.
Pathetic answer. 1 out of 10. I expected at least a few sentences.

Now for the answer to your question, 'What freedom do I experience by being an Ex-premie?'

By being an ex-premie you experience the freedom to think and act for yourself. You experience the freedom of living a life where you don't have to feed all your thoughts through the 'Guru Box' and plan your life around your wierd ideas of practising knowledge and being a devotee.

You experience the freedom of trusting your own thought and judgement- rather than rely on the vague, contradictory ramblings of the out of touch, and quite confused master.

You experience the freedom of not having to lie to yourself about how your hopes and aspirations of a life with the living lord have been trimmed down, and dashed.

You experience the freedom of unloading years worth of stale hindu concepts.

You experience the freedom of spending more time with your friends and family.

You experience the freedom of learning how to love your fellow human beings again.

You experience the joy of no longer kidding yourself.

Will that do for now- or would you like some more?
Anth who would definitely like more.

By the way Bimbo- you say you don't judge anybody unless you've been in their shoes. You haven't worn the shoes of an Ex-premie yet, but you don't mind judging us. We, however, have worn the shoes of a premie- and our judgment is based on having experienced both sides of the coin.

Bimbo again

The answers I gave are mine. If you are not pleased with them, what can I do?
I did not say I dont judge. I said I try not to judge.
We have different perspectives of freedom. So what?
I will address you in aother format re other issues.

Well, I couldn’t find Bimbo’s answer to the first question. Bimbo dodged the second and third questions by answering something that wasn’t asked. And the fourth question got a short mumble.

Come on Bimbo, you can do better than this.

Anth the GCSE examiner.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Nov 26, 2000 at 21:21:18 (GMT)
From: Bimbo
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Bimbo and Anth.
Message:
To Anth the square schoolteacher

So you did not get it (My answers).
First question: Q:If Maharaji called you up and said he had something special he really wanted you to do- is there anything you wouldn't do? I replied:
A: I never wrote a blank checque and I never will.

What is your point? An answer is an answer is an answer, but obiously not for you.

Re freedom:

By being an premie I experience the freedom to think and act for myself from how things really are.

I experience the freedom of living a life where I don't have to feed all my thoughts through the 'Anti Guru Box' (at least not in this forum). I have the freedom to agree and disagree.

I have the freedom to follow the brilliant idea to practice knowledge and and experience peace of mind.

I experience the freedom of trusting my own thought and judgement- rather than rely on the vague, contradictory ramblings of the out of touch, and quite confused ex-premie community.

I experience the freedom of not having to lie to myself and having to deny my experiences.

I experience the freedom of sometimes to get rid of all my concepts and experience things excactly as they are.

I experience the freedom of spending more quality time with myself and my family and choose how to spend my time

I experience the freedom of learning how love is not a concept and that it is a constant challenge.

I experience the joy of no longer fooling myself.

Finally I enjoy and always long for the felling of freedom when I fly on the wings of love.

By the way Anth - from your snot-tales, I understand that there are an infinite difference between what you haved esperienced and what I have. So I cannot really judge you.

But come on Anth , As I said I will confront you for something you have done and said in another format..

Bimbo the human being


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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 09:33:16 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Bimbo
Subject: Answer the questions Bimbo (nt)
Message:
I rest my case.

Anth the tormentor

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 12:59:29 (GMT)
From: Bimbo
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Answer the questions Bimbo (nt)
Message:
Fine
I rest my case too.

Bimbo the defender of truth

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Nov 26, 2000 at 23:05:29 (GMT)
From: Marshall
Email: None
To: Bimbo
Subject: Bimbo and Reality
Message:
Bimbo,If you are a real person and not a premie satire concocted by an ex for comic relief, then you are even more brainwashed and moronic than most premies who post here, (no small feat believe me).Unfortunateley(for you) I believe you are a genuine mj devotee, not a joke, well, at least not an intentional joke anyway.Well anyways Bimbo, no hard feelings eh?I understand your position.Good luck and enjoy 'that experience'Sincerely, Marshall
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Date: Sun, Nov 26, 2000 at 23:12:42 (GMT)
From: Wondering
Email: None
To: Marshall
Subject: Bimbo and Reality
Message:
Dear Bimbo,

Are you one of MJ's bimbos?

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 01:03:42 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Wondering
Subject: While you guys at it, I want to join in
Message:
Bimbo,

What would you say to ulf, Bazza and Tim? These are people that decided to leave Rawat’ little nest in the last few weeks.

What would you say to shp?

You know shp reminds me of the American elections. Would you think that shp will be living in fear if he becomes an ex?

How would you tackle a situation where a person does not have knowledge, say Stonor, yet believes that Rawat is a con merchant.

What do you think of Djuro? Do you think he is doing Rawat any credit?

Why are posting here again under a different name? I am sorry to tell you that if you are Bjorne(and even if you were not), then it is apparent that your mental health has deteriorated since you where here last. You have become more unstable, erratic and in need of counciling. How do you classify yourself?

You conclusion in other words is a load of bullshit because you are basing it on one mans saying.

Update: include Kelly in your argument pplllleeeeetttttzzzzzz.

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 14:54:22 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Why Bimbo (Bjorn) defends Jagdeo...
Message:
Because jagdeo is Bjorn's hero and he would love to do exactly as jagdeo has done. He has these 'sexual fantasies' and I hope to god he's never acted them out although I think the chances of Bimbo/bjorn having never acted on his desires for prepubescent girls is probably zero.

He is a repulsive, disgusting person and a true representative of his demented and perverted master.

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 20:24:19 (GMT)
From: Monmot
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Perhaps we should rename him Bjimbo? :) nt
Message:
mm
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Date: Sun, Nov 26, 2000 at 19:37:04 (GMT)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Lord or Fraud
Message:
I really don’t know how to start, because so much has happened in the last three weeks. anth (AJW) talks about it in terms of a drip drip drip , which finally results in coagulation. I have had much the same experience. I already find it hard to remember how I felt, just a week or so ago, when as a premie I was ready to post a passionate entry on this site in support of Danny. I agreed. This site is sooooo negative. Like, Where’s the love? Where’s the inspiration? My own experience of Knowledge and Maharaji has been, for many many years, a very positive one. More than that, it fulfilled all my spiritual aspirations, because it was so real and yet so ordinary ,so simple, so accessible, no robes, no mantras, no philosophy, no rules, Nothing, just the simple experience of. life within me. A very real experience, I cannot deny it because it’s mine, and it still really works for me. But but but but but there were a lot of buts, little nagging doubts , put them aside, it’s your mind, but but but. And it was mainly about him. It was about the way he was so dismissive of anyone who had ever read a book! Or anyone who tried to get fit,( he must have felt really threatened) or anyone who valued any other relationship, and his loud loud voice, but also the way he has started to whisper the last few words…..so sincere, so meaningful. (so inaudible, so pretentious) and his terrible poetry and painting etc. etc. Anyway, three weeks ago the scales tipped. It happened while watching a recent satellite broadcast, designed for premies. It was a sort of heavily edited synopsis of two recent “Trainings” One at Amaroo And the other at Atlanta. “How to introduce the possibility of Knowledge”
To cut a long story short, I was appalled. He was so heavy. “Knowledge is the property of the Master” (Hang on! I thought it was a gift!) “If I say you can talk about it, you can talk about it, If I say you can’t talk about it, you can’t talk about it.” It made me really angry, which was not the first time, but it was the last straw. I have been extremely disenchanted since Harrogate and that awful auto knowledge session. He shows you exactly what to do with your fingers, and nothing else. Not where to focus your mind, not what to do with your attention, but three different ways to hold your hands during the third technique. And all in this spooky super spiritual atmosphere. I had a sudden vision of how ludicrous it all was. And have you seen the recent introductory broadcast with a completely inane animated film about “The four prophets” ? Even my most dedicated premie friends were a little perplexed. This was followed by “Little drops of Mercy” Read by Marolyn Rawat, Sang by Daya Rawat, and based on a talk given by Maharaji when he was “only thirteen years old.” And all this is at a time when he is trying to distance himself from the outrageous statements he made about his Divinity when he was “only thirteen years old” All of a sudden I recognised that those doubts that I had been suppressing for years were actually my true voice, the real me who had been trying to attract my attention. Thanks to this forum I have started to get to grips with the extent of my delusion.
I have been visiting here for the last year or so and at first was very worried about how negative you all are and how much you live in the past. I mean, so much of this stuff is old hat. We’ve all moved on and things have changed!! ….Actually it is extraordinary, what a different perspective I have now that the scales have fallen from my eyes! And I thank you all for being there for me. It has been a devastating experience. To find that something I have held to be true and at the core of my being for nearly thirty years, has no substance, has been a truly shocking experience. I am still reeling. And my big question is…” How does he do it?” There are still many unanswered questions. How does he present such a blissful radiant conscious aware presence? I remember saying in response to some detractors “You can’t act that” I recognise a need in me to see things in black an d white. Either he is LORD or FRAUD. I have come to the conclusion that the truth is probably somewhere in between.
I am still feeling a bit wary about giving my real name. I think I may have access to some interesting information. For example I have seen quite a lot of Jagdeo in the last few years. So just for now I will sign my name as :-
Kelly
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Date: Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 15:42:49 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Kelly
Subject: Lord or Fraud
Message:
Lord. Lord of what?

Steve

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Date: Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 19:29:46 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Steve Quint
Subject: Lord OF Fraud? The Spin-King-con? or just plain...
Message:
... deluded too?

(There's no doubt his attempts to deny he ever claimed to be the 'Lord' are making a lot of one-time premies wake up to where he could have taken them).
.
.
.

Best wishes,

Chris, (feeling lucky he bailed out before he got stuck 'within inside' the game of denying his own conscience in preference to following the Maha's absence of conscience - which would have been taking self-denial to a dangerous extreme).

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 19:13:57 (GMT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Kelly
Subject: Lord or Fraud
Message:
Your post is very inspiring. All the best as you continue to unravel. Thirty years, eh ...
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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 10:29:43 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Kelly
Subject: Lord or Fraud
Message:
welcome aboard the good ship 'sanity'. over yonder is the pirate ship 'serenity', with its cargo of imprisoned lives and hijacked treasures.they carry no lifeboats on the 'serenity', so we stay within visual range but behind them, lest any of the prisoners jump, or worse, get pushed or thrown overboard and left for dead-- as we all were, ourselves, at one time. we can pick them up and pull them to safety, but we stay maneuverable, so the serenity can't chase us, shoot us or sink us.the closer you keep to your enemies, the less they can do to you. keep your friends close--and your enemies, even closer.
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Date: Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 00:02:29 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Hilarious, janet!
Message:
Loved your post, janet! Great verbabl images.

Marianne

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 00:14:14 (GMT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Kelly
Subject: Lord or Fraud/ Congratulations and a few comments.
Message:
Kelly-
I can relate to your journey, as I was was heavily involved in the cult from 1972 until a year or so ago. Of course, I never believed I was in a cult, except that every time I looked back to a former time, like 2 or 3 years previous, it would seem like it was a cult.A friend of mine, who was deprogrammed in the early 80's (a premie for about 10 years) and later became a deprogrammer himself (and worked on a number of premies)told me that in the early 1980's his group identified 26 major cults working in the US that they were concerned with. As they would deprogram people from the various belief systems that they were forced into, every person would invariably say the same thing: they believed there were many cults out there, but that THEIRS wasn't one! And every group member echoed the same thing-many expressed gratitude(now there's a word I hear these days) that they WEREN'T in a cult....for instance, the moonies would put down the krishnas, the rajneesh people would put down children of god, premies would put down christian groups etc.....the one common factor that they all had was that they ALL believed that every other group was a cult, but that their's wasn't...

When you asked how maharaji could maintain such a blissful presence on stage, this is my belief.... it is merely a 'stage presence' that he has carefully honed for decades, and loves to play it with the premies, who love to watch it. I think that he tours so much , not for world peace, but becaue he is so addicted to the praise,worship and adulation, not to mention the money and lifestyle that comes with it. I truelly believe this is FAR more for his benefit, than ours...

I have heard the rock star 'Sting' talk about his 'Sting persona'...it is simply a stage presence that he is able to become for brief periods of time, in much the same way an actor becomes his character on stage or screen. I was especially interested in his explanation, because he has always been one of my favorite artists. He explained that while 'Sting' is a pretty cool guy on stage (at least to his fans who come see him), that offstage he is really Gordon Sumner. And Gordon Sumner is quite different than Sting-Gordon Sumner is nerdy,intellectual,moody,aloof and not very attractive or dynamic, at least compared to Sting on stage.

The big difference to me is that Sting, or any actor, speaker or artist who present themself publicly do not present themself as 'perfect', 'permanently in god-consciousness','greater than god' etc...nor do they promise that they will bring peace to the world, or that all your sins will be removed when you receive the most holy of all knowledges....

What I have come to see is that maharaji has some sort of presence or power.(however, we all have a similar power within us as well. In the old days, we would have 'satsang' with each other and experience a similar buzz.) It has been carefully honed on stage to deceive people into thinking that he is 'always in that place', which he obviously isn't. When you believe he is, and you are not, a dynamic is set up in which you, the always aspiring premie, constantly try to meditate your way into that place and stay there, which you can never do. The 'master' can't do it, and neither can anyone else. But when you believe that he has achieved this permanent, elevated state, it puts you in a ife long struggle or quest to reach the unreachable.(or you drop out, which 90-95% of the premies in the US and UK have done) And as you inevitably 'fail', you then go back to the master for more 'help' for the journey...

In reality, maharaji's personal life has more human frailties and problems than most of ours. He seems to be addicted to cigarettes and alcohol. He cannot keep a marriage together, and has numerous affairs and a full time mistress. He has used, manipulated and lied to tens of thousands of people across the world, and now tries to cover it up. He has never formally apologized to any of us.

I would judge him by his personal life, far more than I would judge a 'stage presence', which can be faked quite easily (just ask Sting or any other performer). This personal life has been carefully concealed and hidden from us for precisely that reason: if premies really knew what maharaji was like in his personal life, they would either leave, or take two giant steps backward, which would eventually lead to three, four and more...

When you see through the facade, it's hard to keep going with the game. It appears that you have reached that point.

I wish you the best, salute you on your honesty and bravery, and want you to know that there are plenty of fine people on the forum who will talk to you if you would like to. I don't think you will find that in maharaji's world-either from him, the instructors, or the web sites , videos and literature.

What can you expect in the near future?

I don't want to prejudice your journey, but if it is similar to many of ours, expect a wonderful sense of freedom, exhilaration,a reclaiming of your own sense of personal power and feeling, and a rejoicing in that you don't need this cult or very 'imperfect master' in your life anymore. Anger is also there, but a small price to pay for your freedom...

Peace and love,
La-ex

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Date: Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 15:18:18 (GMT)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: The dynamics of delusion
Message:
Thanks,la-ex, for that fascinating post. You have really helped to shed some light on the strange dynamic between 'master' and premie which kept me in a state of deluded subservience for so long.
At the moment I am totally fascinated by the whole process, the whole cult thing, how you get in and how you get out. You talk about deprogramming. I feel that is what I am doing here on this site and now in the forum. I have to keep coming back to get support and affirmation of this strange new viewpoint.
Very interesting what you say about Sting, I am beginning to see that it could all be a stage act. Quite an act though!
I'm also finding that things that I thought were irrelevant have suddenly taken on a new importance. In particular, the re-writing of history, I now find truly shocking, and yet I knew about most of it...the recalling of all the old materials( I've still got loads of that stuff by the way) I guess I was so embarassed by the past myself that I colluded in the cover- up. Its all very strange, and yet there is already a great sense of relief.
Love and peace
Kelly
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Date: Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 22:59:02 (GMT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Kelly
Subject: The dynamics of delusion...revisited
Message:
Kelly-a couple of additiional thoughts came to mind...

1-I agree with you about m's 'revisionist history'-that fact alone caused me more doubts and led to my departure from the good ship maharaji more than anything that was said on this site...what got me particularly was a video in which he said 'People used to call me the perfect master, but I never liked that'....that was especially irritating to me because the first time I saw him was in London in 1973 and the first thing he said was 'as a matter of fact I am the perfect master!'...after that one, it was all downhill from there,.although the Michael Dettmers posts have been a big factor as well ...

2-Concerning the analogy to Sting and the 'stage persona'-I don't think that when m gets on stage that's it's necessarily phony, or an act, at that minute....I'm sure he's feeling lots of good feelings from the crowd, and vice versa...

In that sense it's momentarily real, in my opinion...

But the way he manipulates the premies with the 'persona'is where I think the problem is....I think that he is addicted to the worship and adulation on stage, and inwardly and by himself he is probably quite insecure,unhappy and confused about who he really is....I think this explains the cigarette,dope and alcohol problems....I don't think he has any experience from meditation, and everyone I know that has been around him has said that they have never seen him practice...

The manipulation comes in when he tries to tell the premies that the momentary 'high' that they get at a program is possible all the time through meditation....premies,at least in the past, were always on a quest to stay 'in that place', which it turns out is quite impossible to do....he can't,premies can't, and the few premies I know that really tried to 'always be in that place' became so wierd from the attempted practice of it, that they dug themselves into a deeper and deeper hole of emotional/pychological problems, and appeared so wierd to other people, that no one in their right mind would ever come near m or k....

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Date: Thurs, Nov 30, 2000 at 04:48:19 (GMT)
From: C.George
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: The problem with 'knowledge'
Message:
I really liked this post mentioning how screwed up people become trying to practice this knowledge everyday with emotional and psychological problems. I know it happened to me the more intense I became about practicing. Actually I became a basket case after 30 years of practice and I'm just beginning to get back to normal after being on the forum for two years. Ask Katie and Marianne and they will tell you what bad shape I was in.

We need to deprogramme ourselves from K as well as M. There have been a lot of people here including myself that have denounced M but sing the praises of K.

After two years on the forum I have come to the conclusion it's all bunk. A charlaten selling snake oil. I've never agreed with Anth about snot tecnique but maybe he got his tongue up his nose more dilegently than I!

Can't quite reconcile yet why it's so difficult for us westerners (and easterners for all I know) to just sit down and meditate for an hour though. I'm sure it would be very beneficial even if you don't believe in God.

C.George

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Date: Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 22:34:23 (GMT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Kelly
Subject: The dynamics of delusion/Innoculation!!!
Message:
Kelly-you seem to be going through the amazingly similar process that I and many many others have been going through.
For me, it's been about a year that I've been seeing through the whole thing, in a way that is so different than the way I used to see it.
It's really amazing....

One thing I began to see when I learned about some of the things in m's hidden life, is how he has 'inoculated' himslef in many ways through his satsangs through the years. I didn't realize what he was doing, until I understood many of the hidden things...then his rambling 'inoculations' began to make a lot of sense.

The most recent one was in Virginia this year when he said 'you know the deal, I don't judge any of your personal lives, and you don't judge mine'....seemingly harmless, almost like he's giving you a gift or something, until you realize why he's saying it...

Anyway, best of luck in your journey....e-mail me sometime if you'd like...

la-ex

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Date: Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 22:50:19 (GMT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: kelly
Subject: DON'T throw out that old stuff-call JM!!!!(nt)
Message:
ny
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Date: Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 14:26:15 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: Ship it to me !!!!
Message:
I might find some intersting suff. Unless you check it yourself .....
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Date: Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 17:37:26 (GMT)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Ship it to me !!!!
Message:
Do you keep some sort of archive then?

Without rummaging too far I have found:-

Divine Light magazines 1971/2 No 1-5,8,9,11
And it is Divine March and June 1976
Divine Times May 76 and april/May 1977
Six lane freeway May, July, Nov 1976

Also other assorted odds and ends, including something called 'Inner Word' from 1977 containing Peace Bomb and Peace Bomb Two from Bihar India 1975. Pretty outrageous stuff. Also a question and answer piece with this little gem:-

Q. What is the purpose of all the other teachers that are on the earth now?

A. When there is a tree, beside that tree there are many weeds. Right? And these weeds are unnecessary. What do they do there? They are just there . And when this tree is really going to be something it is going to abolish these weeds. Then you will find no sign of them,

Q. Is there no purpose to them at all then?

A. None at all. None at all. They are just wasting one's time. People go to them, then it takes five years for them to decide no, no, he is not a true master, let me look for something else. And then they go to somebody else and they waste their time again. They waste five years unnecessarily. There is no use in this. To waste five years of your time. It is always unnecessary. If there is only one master,you know, everybody can rush to him. But because there are these weeds they are stopped from coming.

Oh! the bitter irony.....Only five years!!!

Anyway, IF this stuff is of interest,I would be happy to ship some or all of it to you. Just tell me where. I also have some audio tapes somewhere, including Millenium.
Kelly

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Date: Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 22:38:53 (GMT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Kelly
Subject: Ship it to me !!!!/Ship,ship,ship it!!!!
Message:
Kelly-sounds like you have some great stuff-I think you should ship it right away to JM for the website,or someone else if they would be more appropriate, but I think JM is the best bet....

La-ex

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Date: Thurs, Nov 30, 2000 at 02:25:42 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Kelly
Subject: Ship,ship,ship it to J-M!!!!
Message:
Please send this stuff to Jean Michel for our archives and for other purposes that may present themselves. Since M and EV are publicly denying their personal and organizational past, who knows when these documents could become relevant and significant? Please send them to J-M.

Marianne

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Date: Fri, Dec 01, 2000 at 21:44:59 (GMT)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: I will I will I will!
Message:
I will gladly ship it ...but where? I don't have an address. I've looked around the site but I can't find a clue..Help!
By the way I've e-mailed you, and I've also realised through reading your posts where you live.
I am only just beginning to get the hang of how this forum works, the conventions and etiquette!! etc so I realise I didn. 't reply to a question you put to me in another thread. I'll .go there now
Kelly
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Date: Sun, Nov 26, 2000 at 21:31:35 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Kelly
Subject: Lord or Fraud
Message:
Thank you for your post Kelly. I was very touched by your sincerity. The part I liked best was the part where you said

'All of a sudden I recognised that those doubts that I had been suppressing for years were actually my true voice, the real me who had been trying to attract my attention'

That statement I think is a moment all people who have ever sincerely beleived in a cult leader and had to face the deception have had.

And when I read the end about Jagdeo I was stunned. I don't like to post my email address on the board as I am afraid of getting wierd email from premies, but please get in touch with someone, Anth, Katie, Joe, Marianne, Michael Dettmers, all of them would be good choices, and they can get you in touch with me. Or, if you would prefer, I can set up a hotmail account.

Thanks so much, and good luck to you.

Susan

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Date: Sun, Nov 26, 2000 at 20:08:14 (GMT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: mgdbach@hotmail.com
To: Kelly
Subject: Good luck to you.
Message:
Kelly, congratulations for being honest with yourself. I know that it can be very painful to realize that what you have spent so much time believing and defending is not defendable or believable. You have just taken back the reigns of your life, and have started on quite an adventure. You will get support from many ex-premies here.
I did not spend anywhere as much time in the cult as you have, but my answer to your question of 'how does he do it?' is that I wanted him to be everything that we were told he was, and I was willing to turn a blind eye and a deaf ear to all that did not ring true, because I wanted him to be the LOTU and God in human form. That's how he does it; he knows that many have a yearning and hunger for a Perfect Master, and as the experience of so many of us shows, we were willing to go along with the lie.
Good luck, and you may e-mail me at the address above is so inclined.
Michael
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Date: Sun, Nov 26, 2000 at 20:56:45 (GMT)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: Mickey the Pharisee
Subject: Good luck to you.
Message:
Thanks for your encouragement. The first thing I felt when the scales tipped was. 'What a fool I feel' and the second thing was 'How can I ever Trust my judgement again?' and yet...it was my own judgement that finally got me out,when I finally listened to that inner voice that I had suppressed for years and years.

I agree it was that yearning and hunger for that perfection that caused me to turn a blind eye. I am also inclined to believe that any prayer or sincere yearning of the heart will be answered, no matter where it is directed. In other words, I could have saved myself a lot of time trouble and expense if I had focused my devotion on my DOG and not on that incarnation of GOD otherwise known as Margerine.
Cheers and thanks for your e-mail
Kelly

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Date: Sun, Nov 26, 2000 at 22:49:46 (GMT)
From: Disculta
Email: None
To: Kelly
Subject: Amazing! Read Kelly's post Definitely 'best of'
Message:
That is quite amazing and moving, Kelly. To actually read a post by someone in the moment of waking up from the cult-trance. And you are so lucid and articulate!

I agree with you about getting in touch with your real inner knowing. I wrote a post about 'inner knowing' as opposed to Knowledge, way below. Isn't it amazing to recover faith in what you FEEL! And I really understand what you said about being a bit guilty or concerned because your inner knowing HASN'T communicated this to you in all this time. (Sorry I can't quote you exactly without going back to your post and losing what I have just written). I'd like to offer a way of thinking about this, in case it helps, not that I think you need any advice -- you are obviously very clear and in touch with reality:

I was personally, also, appalled when I reclaimed what I often call my 'emotional body,' which amounts to my inner knowing about things. It seemed incredible to me that I had denied it for 12 years (I was in 12, been out 16). After all, I was definitely conscious during those years. In fact, I had a very strong inner dialogue during that time, and often debated the doubts and 'drips' inside my mind. But the reason that the 'cultic' version always won out was that I was completely oblivious to the validity of the feelings and sensations in my body. For example, when MJ would rant and rave, (just as you enjoyably described in your post) my stomach would get tight and I would feel nauseous. But my mind would say 'That's just a lila' or some such crap, and I would override my body and emotional touchstone. Everything changed for me when I realized that my body and emotions were a conduit to the divine just as much as my mind and 'higher spiritual' conduits.

Then I knew it was mostly bullshit.

And I agree with you, MOSTLY bullshit. It is unfair to myself to say that it was all bs because it wasn't. There were extensive periods of time in which I was surrounded by a vibrational intensity of great beauty and light, which was generated by my spiritual aspirations, and those of lots of other people. That vibrational intensity, focused around MJ, caused him to also glow with a great light. It was our light as well as his light that was shining through his face and body. This works as a kind of point of focus, in which the devotee gets to see and feel their own potential as it is focused and channeled through a transmission point like a guru. But there is no possibility of graduation or equality with our ex-guru, because he wasn't an integrated teacher, whose true desire was the enlightenment or awakening of others. Although I believe he had moments where he was moved by parts of himself which could tune into a sort of selfless love (mostly reflecting ours, I think), his primary selves (as they are called in some forms of therapy) were simply using people for his own needs, to fill places of lack in his deeper being, by stuffing himself with importance and material excess etc.

However, the purity that sometimes came through and which moved me, was real, in a sort of relative way. Great music can come through assholes. In MJ's case, the assholiness by far outweighs the holiness -- it's a no-brainer once one wakes up to what one really feels.

Much, much love to you,

Love Disculta

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Date: Thurs, Nov 30, 2000 at 04:24:52 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: 'm's assholiness by far outweighs the holiness'
Message:
Great phrase, Disculta! Maybe you could work in something about his alcoholiness too!
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Date: Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 16:12:28 (GMT)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: Waking up from the cult-trance
Message:
Thanks Disculta, for your very supportive post.
You talk about me being in the moment of waking up from the cult trance. I think ,looking back, that the process has been going on for some time and there's probably still quite a way to go, and yet, there was a real moment when the scales tipped. Maybe over the space of an hour or two. It was quite an extaordinary sense of awakening and I'm trying to hang to what my main thoughts at the time were.
Apart from what I've already said about recognising that my doubts were actually part of my inner voice, one of the main things I concluded was that MJ must be the most deluded of us all, and that probably there is no hope for him. I doubt that he is involved in a conscious cynical conspiracy to defraud us, but I may be wrong. I certainly have been before!! What do you think?
I was very interested in what you had to say about the vibrational intensity focused around him actually being our own light as well. One of the first times I saw MJ, I experienced a brilliant light shining from him. It was enough at the time to convince me of his divinity.
What a long strange trip its been!
Love Kelly
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Date: Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 19:16:12 (GMT)
From: Disculta
Email: None
To: Kelly
Subject: Waking up from the cult-trance
Message:
'I doubt that he is involved in a conscious cynical conspiracy to defraud us, but I may be wrong. I certainly have been before!! What do you think?'

Dunno! It all has to do with which level of 'him' one is talking about. Obviously he has a very immature personality. When I have worked with abusers, it is interesting that they are really oblivious of what they are doing, while they are doing it, due to the mechanics of denial. However, when the therapy goes deeper, another 'part' of the person opens up and feels the remorse. Where was that other part while they were abusing their daughter, or whatever? There is a part of MJ that knows that what he is doing is hurting others, but it is incredibly denied, and has hardly been developed at all in his lifetime, due to the adulation and allowance he has received. Perhaps his family and marriage are the only place he may get confronted with his effect on others, and apparently Marolyn is still brainwashed.

I have been very interested by reading Kenneth Ring's book Lessons From the Light. It's a more or less scientific look at near death experiences, and has accounts from all over the world, all religions, all cultures, in which he shows hundreds of cases in which people returning from up to several hours of 'death' recount that they found themselves feeling everything that they caused others to feel, during the life review part of their NDE's! This blew my socks off - apparently the Golden Rule is an actual principle of life! So some part of us is registering the harm we are doing, but there are definitely psychological fear-based mechanisms that prevent our awareness of it. But our 'soul' knows. It takes a very, very strong intervention to make a person aware of what harm they are doing. It's really lucky if a person can get that intervention, because they can clean up the mess they have made a bit, and not have to go through lifetimes of karma (just a belief, but one I tend to believe). My question is, will MJ be lucky enough to allow himself to get truly confronted and clear things with people he has hurt in this life. The way he has himself protected like Howard Hughes, it doesn't look like it.

Mr. Rawat, you would be very lucky if you allowed yourself to really hear what we have to say!

Kelly, when you say it's been a long, strange, trip, I really agree. There was definitely light and power and grace flying around in the early days. I guess I will never be fooled by mere light, power and grace, and will include my emotional body's reaction in any choices I make from now on into eternity. Great lesson (yukky yuk).

Loev Disculta

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 00:09:20 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: This sooo sooo beautifull
Message:
Kelly,

I am allways amazed to see people coming out the way you do all of sudden. It is like waking up of a bad dream. 30 years of it. I think somebody should do a study on it. How about you Disculta?

Anyway lovely to see.

Did you know that EV has a black list? I think they are already checking their database to see who you are. Sheeeesh, posting under ones' real name is a drag in-it? No more I am the good little premie that kiss rawats' ass when push comes to shove. No Sir-ri,
I am out, and when I am out, that what it is. OUT. Pitty about the gossip though, can'nt put them little sticky fingurs where you want anymore, but that is the price we pay for being free,

See if you can tell us more about that prick J, before you dissappear in the ether.

I am staying, that's my plan.

Love you

Salam

Rawat Sucks

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Date: Sun, Nov 26, 2000 at 07:01:46 (GMT)
From: the
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Question...
Message:
Hi everybody,

Are the following folks still hanging out here:

Jim,
Katie,
Bobby,
Selena,
Micky Mouse (maybe wrong name?)
Milo (maybe wrong spelling?)

Hope all is well weith everyone here.

the

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Date: Sun, Nov 26, 2000 at 08:00:39 (GMT)
From: an
Email: None
To: the
Subject: answer...
Message:
Why don't you hang around and find out? Or introduce yourself and let them say hello to the real you?

JohnT

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Date: Sun, Nov 26, 2000 at 06:32:02 (GMT)
From: Curious George
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Did I miss anything?
Message:
Did anyone do a post about the satellite broadcast from India where M and daughter were making absolute fools of themselves in front of 100000 people?

Did Micheal Dettmers reply to my post asking him if he knew anything about M and Monika Lewis?

Did Bazza really say he is going to do a journey after saying that he had a wonderful time in India seeing M?

Inquiring minds like mind want to know,

Feeling left behind. Don't want to miss anything,

Curious George

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Date: Sun, Nov 26, 2000 at 11:46:07 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Curious George
Subject: Did I miss anything?
Message:
Well, if you missed anything up to the end of December 1999 it'll be in the forum archives search engine.

I haven't read anything about M & daughter here recently. I guess though, in India, they can do what they like because the population are used to bizarre gurus. Look at living god, Sai Baba, for instance.

As you may know, Jim has returned to the premie fold and is now too busy doing synchronized participation at Elan Vital to post here. He only has to work off twenty years of anti-Elan Vital karma and then he'll be able to attend satellite video events again.

Who say's the Lard isn't forgiving.

.. Dave

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Date: Sun, Nov 26, 2000 at 23:07:39 (GMT)
From: Disculta
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Dave, did you miss this?
Message:
I was just rereading your excellent webpage, particularly the recent Dettmers additions, and I wondered if you had noticed that in about the last week, Dettmers had posted probably the most damning story of all. It must be down in the archives between one and two weeks ago. It's a story of MJ going to a restaurant with a group of people, then getting very drunk, and abruptly demanding that everyone leave, because he thought Marolyn was flirting with some guy from another table. Then he insisted on driving and drove his family (with kids) very drunk, all the way back to Malibu. Dettmers said he was in the car behind, very alarmed as MJ's car weaved all over the road.

I don't think many people saw this post because it moved through fast due to Djuro and election stuff. It would be good in the alcoholism section, though.

Love Disculta

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 01:55:09 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: Dave, did you miss this?
Message:
Yes I did miss that!

I usually find Mike dettmer's posts by doing a search on 'dettmers' on the web page but I miss some days. I'll find that post and put it where it belongs. Thanks for letting me know.

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 09:42:12 (GMT)
From: Bimbo
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Sir Dave.......
Message:
Some of the journeys has been deleted from the ex-premie site: among them Susan and Abis. Do you have their original journeys saved?

I searched something and at one point a hole week was missing. I assume it also will be missing in your search engine? I cant remember which year.

I aslo once read a comment by Brian in my reseach before your search engine, He reffered to some kin of posting, but when I tried to find these posts, they had dissapeared? I cant remember the year.

Any comments

Anyway thanks for your good work

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 13:48:47 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Bimbo
Subject: Sir Dave.......
Message:
Everything which is in the ex-premie.org forum archives is in the search engine. I don't know anything about missing weeks but if they've gone, they've gone forever.
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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 14:08:35 (GMT)
From: Bimbo
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Sir Dave.......
Message:
Thanks for you reply

If you discovered that one or more of your stories on your sites where just lies and bullshit, would you delete them? I am not talking about the sewarch engine.-

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 18:37:36 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Bimbo
Subject: I'm all ears, Bimbo
Message:
What are the lies and bullshit on my site? I am an open minded person and am willing to listen.
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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 16:11:30 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Bimbo
Subject: my journey
Message:
I asked that Brian delete my journey because in it I had thoughtlessly referenced another victim of Jagdeo who does not wish to endure the kind of thing you are doing here on this site. There are victims besides Abi and myself, but so far, the others have been too scarred by what happened to them to tell the story in public. This is completely 100% their right, as no one should have to tolerate defending themselves to someone like you. Everything that was in my journey is now on Sir Dave's site and in the letter I sent to your Master. Abi never posted a journey.
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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 01:58:07 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: and what's more
Message:
The forum archive search engine has now been completed up to March of this year. It should be finished within a week.

.. Dave

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 05:33:11 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: and what's more
Message:
Dear Sir Dave,

I was really glad to see that you have added Kelly's posts with the Jagdeo stuff to your site. May I suggest that you also include a link to the stuff Jean Michael has on ex.premie ord with the Marcia Leitner letter too? I think it is good that it is all in one place, as we really have collected a lot of information and it is nice to be able to tell people to look at your site rather than explain the story over and over. Another idea I had is something like an email address on your site with a request for any information on the subject. I have the sense that the forum is getting a lot of PAM traffic, and ex pam traffic these days, and logic tells me that as much as we know, that we probably only are seeing the tip of the iceberg.

Thanks again, and I really appreciate your hard work. When I got back from vacation I was anxious to read what Michael had posted while I was gone and it was so nice to see you had collected it and put it in an accessable place.

I am with some of the posts from long time premies lately I believe that the impact of speaking out, and in that I mean all our collective voices, has been tremendous.

Susan

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 13:46:22 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com
To: Susan
Subject: and what's more
Message:
If there's ever anything I miss which you think should be on my site, don't forget to email me and tell me.
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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 00:19:29 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: Dave, did you miss this?
Message:
I know you are addressing Dave. But I want to bring your attention, that a while back, before MDs' post, someone else mentioned this story about the resturant fight. Cann't recal who. It appears that we have two witnesses to this event.

Salam

Rawat sucks

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Date: Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 14:48:55 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: EV's latest newsletter will spook you, Salam
Message:
Last time I linked to it, you mentioned something about Cinderella, didn't you?

Would you believe this: - evnewsletter.org?

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Date: Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 22:03:55 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: MD, see the gang of 4 part......nt
Message:
dhrr
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Date: Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 21:43:07 (GMT)
From: ExTex
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: EV's latest newsletter SHOULD spook ALL
Message:
Does the word 'POLLYANNA' strike a chord?
How about the phrase 'totally disconnected from reality'?
A form of mental illness....in this case, as with most religions, a CULTivated form of mental illness!
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Date: Sun, Nov 26, 2000 at 01:41:31 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: ExTex
Subject: EV's latest newsletter SHOULD spook ALL
Message:
Does the word 'POLLYANNA' strike a chord?

Yes, and so does the word TITANIC.

Steve

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Date: Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 16:21:26 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: EV's latest newsletter will spook you, Salam
Message:
I know, I noticed it earlier. You think it's a special replay, like some hidden message?

I made a little prayer for rawat, it's in a thread below.

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Date: Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 15:57:36 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: cq and Salam
Subject: What spooks me about it.....
Message:
Hi cq and Salam,

What really spooks me about the newsletters lately is that ''once upon a time,'' I thought everything he said made sense. Now when I read his quotes, everything is so transparent. And his sentences are convoluted, too.

I subscribed because I consider it a sort of cult watch type thing. I don't get it in my personal email, so I can choose to open them at my alternate email address if I'm not in the mood to read that shit.

M seems to be speaking more and more about ''gratitude'' which, as we all know, is code for money. I've concluded that Maharaji is a pretty lazy guy. As time goes on, the video guru is becoming more out of touch with his followers while programming them to think the opposite. That's scary. He tries to convince premies that they can get the same experience from a video as darshan, etc., etc., which is all fake, anyway. Yucky!!

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Date: Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 16:54:15 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: What spooks me about it.....
Message:
Feeling gratitude to rawat is like putting yourself in the mouse trap.

How can something be free if one is 'forced' and 'obliged' to feel gratitude for the present?

It is not gratitude he wants, it's worship. He is saying thank me, be a little brainless worm and let me guide you to where I want you to be so I can you use you the best way I can for my own benefit.

He starting to sound so boaring, I just do not see what peolpe find in him.

Rawat, you are not even a fart in a hurrican.

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 20:32:40 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: There was only one pair ...
Message:
... of glass slippers.

(or was Cinderella quadruped?)

So how come the multitude of shoes in EV's version of the story?

It really is disgusting isn't it? Most of all how he got so many of us to fall for such a blatant misrepresentation of what 'God' was.

And don't it make you sick, how the Maha continues to profit from the 'gratitude' that he (ever-so subtly) demands in EV publications - like the EV newsletter - supported by (amongst others) the UK Charity Commission ( - and don't try and tell me that the UK Commission isn't supporting him in his continuing acquisition of wealth).

Salam, the whole trip sucks. You know that, so do many of us exes.

But the ones who are STILL being drawn into the Maha's con are the ones who we should be thinking about. After all, what would YOU say, if a younger relative of yours was about to be drawn into his trip?

We were 'brothers and sisters' back then. I think we still are.

OK, so some of our 'siblings' got stuck in an idealist fantasy that we (exes) left behind - whether a week or a decade ago shouldn't really matter, it's the realisation behind the leaving that matters - but we once thought of them as 'brothers and sisters'. We also thought of the Maha as 'the Father'. But should that blind us to the allegiance that we all once shared as 'premies'?

IMO the only 'enemy' in this instance is the apathy that lets people who once thought the Maha was God incarnate to sit back and do nothing.

What think you?

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 23:24:22 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: To cq and Salam....
Message:
Hi cq, your statement:

''We were 'brothers and sisters' back then. I think we still are.''

is something that I feel deeply here. There is acceptance, love, encouragement, fights, arguments, all acceptable now that we are exes. It's something I treasured in the days when we had those bonds, and despite the pain of goomraji's betrayals, we can still be close. I feel it. And I miss Jim, too.

Thanks for saying that, cq...I've been feeling it since I came back to the forum. You all help me so much, and I am grateful for that, more than you know.

Sorry Salam for butting into a post addressed to you.

You're both sweeties, and Rawat sucks.

Love,
Cynthia

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Date: Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 20:32:17 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: The Master of Freudian slips ...
Message:
thanks Cynthia, y'know, it takes a lot to go through a trip like the premie-trip and come out the other side with an understanding of how vulnerable and misled we all can be. I guess it's lead to a greater awareness of what the real world actually is - which is NOT just the dream-world of 'how-beautiful-it-all-could-be-if-we-shared-the-same-goals'. There was a togetherness, back then, but what a price to pay for it.

Back in the old days, it was just being vulnerable 'to his love' that kept us together. But in the light of hindsight, it was a shallow togetherness, based as it was on a love that was dependent on a hero-figure who was 'all things to all men' (though 'all things to all people' would sound better in these non-sexist days). No doubt that particular hero-figure is sitting back in one of his various mansions thinking - 'it's ME that brought them together. Why aren't they more grateful?' But he would, wouldn't he?

You know, this fortnight's EV newsletter quotes him about gratitude, and there's a distincly Freudian slip to his explanation. This is what he says (emphases mine):

QUOTE:
'You judge your life by the good things and the bad things, you judge your life by what you have accomplished, you judge your life by what is left to be accomplished. But none of these things should be the scale for this life.

There should only be one scale,

the scale of how content and how satisfied

I am'.

'
.
.
.
Oops, what a giveaway!

Til later,

Chris

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Date: Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 11:36:14 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Learning from a distance
Message:
From the latest e-letter.

EV has joined the Open Learning Program. Now is possible to get a certificate or diploma and become a cult member from a distance. Ofcourse, then you will be able to join the caln because you will know The truth, the clarity, Knowledge and the Master and never worry about having a Cinderella syndrome because you are dipped in gooey gratitude and sticky thankfull contentment.

And the lord is here.

OHHH yes.

Rawat has come, hallelujah Lord, Oooh yeah.

Lets pray to the lord.

All together now.

Guru Maharaji you are a prick, and you ruined my life
You have given me a lot of crap, fuck lord fuck lord fuck lord
Like a baby in a pram, you almost suffocated me forever

Guru Ma……….

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Date: Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 16:17:20 (GMT)
From: Djuro
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Learning from a distance
Message:
Sir Dave is a new Master! Let's celebrate!
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Date: Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 16:31:13 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Djuro
Subject: Learning from a distance
Message:
Talk for yourself, seeing that you can not wipe your ass without your guru's agya. Thank you, but masters give me indigestion.

Are you classified as human?

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Date: Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 12:06:38 (GMT)
From: JTF
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Learning from a distance
Message:
If one was suspicious, one might think that this 'distance learning' will be a great way to claim that soooooo many people are joining the cult. However, we all know that rawat has no need to inflate the numbers. People in the western world are knocking his door down to receive his unique knowledge that you can't get in kollege.
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Date: Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 10:39:13 (GMT)
From: JTF
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Is this manipulative?
Message:
A Good Bunch To Hang Out With
Edited excerpt, Maharaji in Alexandria, 17th June 2000.

Change your habit. Question the world, not the heart.

You know that gang I talked about? The truth, the clarity, Knowledge and the Master? They're very particular who joins them. Very, very particular. If you come with confusion, they're not going to want you. So how should you go? Not with excess baggage, but with the heart of a child. And you'll be accepted in the clan(CULT). It's good stuff over there, believe me. It really is. They're a good bunch to hang out with, day and night.

That's the land. It's a wonderful place. And if my journey can begin there, and end there, that's fine.
This is a beautiful, beautiful chance. It's all about enjoying. It's about going inside, it's about settling down. And be. Feel that heart, feel that feeling, and accept it. Change your habit. Question the world, and accept your heart. Right now, you question your heart, and accept the world. It's a bad habit. Change it.

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Date: Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 20:15:27 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: JTF
Subject: Manipulation and Just Plain Weird
Message:
That clan talk, as if premies actually get together these days....

When I went back in '98, I thought the emptiness of the room was due to the rural area I live in. NOT.

The Hartford community, so to speak, was the same, as was the Boston area for that matter. I remember going to regional programs back in the 70's when Hartford, New Haven, Boston, NY got together and we'd rent an auditorium for a day or weekend, whatever....one time we rented a whole freaking campus. I don't see it happening anymore. I think the paranoia has increased to a point that M doesn't want premies getting together, not because of the information age, e.g., videos, videos, videos, rather he doesn't want premies expressing doubts to eachother.

All this gushiness about clans is a pathetic attempt to get more money. That's all m's about: $$$$$.

In addition, I sense a secret message in there, too, about which clan (exes) NOT to hang out with....IMO..just speculation.

And M speaks as if he is so accessible. Sometimes I think he hates premies. He drained the US and European premies of our money as well as by making us slaves, so I think premies are more of a hindrance to him. But he likes money, so he's like the Energizer Bunny, he goes on and on and on and on.....

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Date: Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 20:37:17 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: they played games with curtains
Message:
Roger mentioned this before. I waw it. They subdivided the hall in LB to make it look like the room was really full.
Pretty sad.

ps - an Olive Branch to you?

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Date: Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 21:58:34 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Selene, yes, an olive branch to you, too:)) (nt)
Message:
nn
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Date: Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 22:02:51 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: thank you Cynthia
Message:
I really hate being at odds with ex's and appreciate your reply.
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Date: Sun, Nov 26, 2000 at 16:47:33 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: To Selene, thank you, too
Message:
I consider it all water under the bridge now.
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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 00:47:30 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: To Selene, thank you, too
Message:
Is that the same as bridge over water?
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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 02:38:15 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: It's 'Bridge over TROUBLED waters', Salam
Message:
And no, it's not the same: 'Water under the bridge' is stuff 'in the past', 'Bridge over TROUBLED waters'(see Simon and Garfunkel) is an active effort to be what I think many ex-premies are trying(and succeeding) to be - positive support through troubled times.

Anna

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 02:50:08 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: It's 'Bridge over TROUBLED waters', Salam
Message:
So what's Cynthia doing under the bridge?
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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 03:09:37 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Salam, Cynthia isn't under the bridge!!
Message:
Why are you reminding me of Djuro? 'Or do you just enjoy seeing me in react-post mode?
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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 03:29:16 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: Yes she is.
Message:
Isn't she shoveling all that water, so she must be under the bridge.

On second thought, she could be on the bridge with a buck and a rope to pick up the water, Yes?

Sheesh.

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 03:47:25 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Yes, you are playing with my head ...
Message:
Yes, you are playing with my head ... so stop it NOW!

And you know you mean a buckET and a rope, because a buck is a male deer. Fuck English!! (look how far you've pushed me, Salam ... I know you don't want responsibility for it! ;-)

Anna

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 03:58:19 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: Sorry. It's all Cynthia's falt
Message:
She shouldn't have talked about the water in the first place.

But that is life in-it.

Spud, I mean Salam.

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 23:32:57 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Salam,Sorry About the Water thing, I know goomraji
Message:
talks about water entirely TOO much.

But, that continues to be water under the bridge.

Water under the bridge means, Salam, that the bridge over troubled waters still stands and the troubled waters have passed.

English is a bitch, isn't it?

Love,
Cynthia

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Date: Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 02:41:42 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Now I know everything about bridges
Message:
and water. They are confusing and will never ever again go near one. Just a quikie, which bridge was it that did all this :).

Wooooo, water skiing.

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 02:09:34 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Salam: Rawat Sucks!! Like your new signature!!NT
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 12:07:37 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: JTF
Subject: Is this manipulative?
Message:
JTF,

I was only reading that crap and posted above you. We must have been on the same wave lenght.

I though the use of the word 'clan' was particularly interesting.

Salam

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Date: Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 18:07:51 (GMT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Is this manipulative?, more like desperate
Message:
Re use of clan- especially when all the bumpf about distance learning is focusing on the individual not the group, rawats like one bendy toy salesman who'll put himself into any shape to get that one extra bum on the many empty seats, so that he can give them the gratitude of knowing that he's living the grand old $ shelling life.

He really is a used car salesman pretending he's selling unique vehicles produced by himself, when the auto-knowledge route proves there is no magic juju. Since we also know the techniques and the sub-new age spin around it are also not unique, what's left. Some kind of guru branding subscription service IF gurus were THAT fashionable, but they aren't anymore.

It really is completely pathetic, preposterous even.

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Date: Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 18:01:51 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Is this manipulative?
Message:
And their snotty insinuation that people want their shit so bad and THEY are being selective. Yeah right.
And do they, I wonder, still whisper excitely when they land an aspirant with a lot of money? Or was it only in my little community that happened?
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Date: Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 08:03:33 (GMT)
From: Bazza
Email: bshaw8@bellsouth.net
To: Steve
Subject: To Steve Q, and everyone really
Message:
Dear Steven

Long ago I came to the realization that I was living a lie by calling myself a premie and putting on a show of being a student/devotee of Maharaji. It had been eating me up for years, slowly making me miserable, until I knew I had to go one way or the other. Either totally immerse myself in it and practice knowledge assiduously, forget everything I'd come to believe about maharaji being the Lord, let go of 20+ years of yearning to be someone special in his world...or just walk away.

Well I knew I couldnt do the former. I'd just put too much into it, given him my heart and soul at times, let it all go - job, money, family, friends...just to stay one of the chosen ones. If none of that was real, which is what the current 'party line' coming from EV seems to be, and what the infamous FAQs spell out, if I truly had poured all that into my own projection, my own concept of who maharaji was, there's no way I could simply do a mental about-face and pretend it never happened.

So a few days ago I chose to walk away.

OK so I've been hanging out here for a while. But to be truthful, I see this as a kind of Bardo, the in-between state between two lives. As much as I love and appreciate all the wonderful people who have welcomed me and offered support, I know this is not my destiny.

I was talking with Jim Heller on the phone today, and I said to him I didn't want to go from being a 'premie' to being an 'ex-premie', per se. I want to move on and discover everything Life has to offer me, a life without Maharaji, without out any other Masters, Taechers, Gurus, who-rus, isms or schisms. Just Life, in all its wonderful raw beauty.

This is just where I am at, and I don't know if it will help you in any way, I'm just feeling to express it.

I don't hate maharaji, I truly don't. Whether I would be justified in doing so or not, I simply don't want to invite that kind of negative feeling in right now. I don't have the spirit of the campaigner, activist or militant in me. I know I've gone on plenty about 'cult' stuff, told a few tales, but I needed to vent a little and it felt good. Now I feel Life beckoning me. I feel that Creator who was there for me long, long before I ran across maharaji, waiting to show me His love.

For me, I find Him in Nature. Being close to forests, hills, rivers, in the sushing of the wind through the trees and the lulling hum of a sweet meadow. We are thinking of moving away from Florida, maybe to Northern California, or New England....changing your environment is a wonderful way to free yourself from mental ruts and seemingly hopeless future. Maybe that would be an option for you, Steve? a change of scenery, a new life in a new part of this Creation.

Our situations and troubles are probably extremely different Steve, but perhaps we share one commonality - we have to grow as human beings out in the real world, not in this virtual one. Don't get me wrong, I do value this place and the way it has given me the courage to make a change in my life, but I don't want to become trapped here, making endless arguments with faceless, nameless people who haven't the decency to say who they are. 'Wavering' premies need to know that this is not the alternative to maharaji's world, far from it. It is just a meeting place, somewhere to exchange information, vent a little, seek help, then move on.

The answers you seek are all out there my friend. Take a break from the myopic doctrine you've had drummed into you for years on end, about it all being within you. Maybe it is, maybe it isnt, but for myself, when confusion and pain dominates within me, its time to look outward. Shake off the constraints of this one guru's teachings and allow yourself to explore new ideas, new possibilities. Go hug a tree, roll in the grass, learn to play the didgeridoo....anything, whatever you feel like doing. Nothing is 'wrong', there is no 'path'.... Life is a wide open field as broad as your imagination, go play in it.

take care

luv Bazza

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 14:06:58 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Bazza
Subject: To Bazza, and everyone really
Message:
The answers you seek are all out there my friend. Take a break from the myopic doctrine you've had drummed into you for years on end, about it all being within you. Maybe it is, maybe it isnt, but for myself, when confusion and pain dominates within me, its time to look outward. Shake off the constraints of this one guru's teachings and allow yourself to explore new ideas, new possibilities. Go hug a tree, roll in the grass, learn to play the didgeridoo....anything, whatever you feel like doing. Nothing is 'wrong', there is no 'path'.... Life is a wide open field as broad as your imagination, go play in it.

Bazza, I know your intentions are good, but watch out for the trite suggestions and condescension. They sound stupid and are irritating.

There's a saying about good intentions.

Steve

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Date: Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 05:50:06 (GMT)
From: Bazza
Email: None
To: Steve Quint
Subject: Stupid and irritating?
Message:
Sorry I'm not the fucking poet laureate, but you were the one crying for help, remember?

I'll know to keep quiet next time.

Barry

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Date: Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 07:18:35 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Bazza
Subject: Stupid and irritating and rude
Message:
Fuck you, Bazza.
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Date: Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 18:15:14 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Bazza
Subject: sometimes this place
Message:
Feels like a halfway house to me :) Anyway, I'll remember you for your placement of the CD's and Videos on ebay. That made me laugh so hard, seeing that stuff out there. (I threw my Drifiting tape in the trash after asking people on here if they wanted it)
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Date: Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 11:52:42 (GMT)
From: Tim Goulding
Email: timgitti@indigo.ie
To: Bazza
Subject: Happy Trails
Message:
Hi Bazza...thanx for your great post. I love the wide open field bit .I got over the Maharaji thing a long time ago and only found this place recently and agree thAt it could be a Bardo world if you are just leaving....but helpful. I can honestly say that I have no shadow of the cult left and so could potentially encourage new refugees. Your advice to embrace life to the full and not through narrow cult glasses is right on .NO ONE has a monopoly on Truth.
Love to you from just a real name in cyberspace.
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Date: Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 10:25:37 (GMT)
From: get 2 the point
Email: None
To: Bazza
Subject: To everyone really
Message:
they haven't elect'd a new pope yet Steve.
so just relax...
lick bush and dick in 2000.
we'll know soon enuf..
supreme court stuff
'supreme'
court
things....
it's ok steve.....
just chill baby...
take some garlic and orange juice backer...
chop'd garlic...mince'd...thin....juicy garlic..
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Date: Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 07:23:31 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: get 2 the point
Subject: Idiots Not Welcome
Message:
You're obviously the same idiot that posted as Steverino. Fuck off again.
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Date: Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 09:56:28 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Bazza
Subject: To Steve Q, and everyone really
Message:
God bless you, Jim Heller, Beth Murray, yes, and even Michael Dettmers who I felt anger towards two months ago when I began here, and the others who use your real, full names.

I too spoke to Jim today after more than a week, and it was great. He insulted me, calling me 'the ultimate rambler' but I had called him 'Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer' in a posting so I guess he owed me one.

God bless Anthony, Sir Dave, and others who have intelligence and wit and sensitivity in their messages.

God bless Salam for his light-heartedness. These names come to mind right now. Thanks to all who've helped and amused me over the last two months.

Steve

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Date: Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 20:24:20 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Bazza
Subject: To: Bazza
Message:
Dear Bazza,

You sound so refreshed, so good, that I hate to see you go. Yet Selene is right, this is a way station for some folks. Isn't it wonderful? Out of the cult.

I wish you the best. Stop in some time and say hello.

Love,
Cynthia

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Date: Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 05:53:54 (GMT)
From: Bazza
Email: bshaw8@bellsouth.net
To: Cynthia
Subject: To: Bazza
Message:
Hi Cynthia

I'll be reading still, I just dont like chat rooms much as a participant. I like to be able to see the people I'm talking with.You can always email me if you like.

b.

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Date: Fri, Nov 24, 2000 at 23:50:33 (GMT)
From: Steven Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Call For Help
Message:
I am going through a very difficult time. I thought I was out of the woods a few months ago with respect to mental illness and m's influence, but this is one of most difficult times in my life in a way.

I don't know who to pray to for help. Who's my master? Who or what controls destiny? My closest friends seem to be atheists, but I still feel the need to turn to people. I have the most inquisitive mind I know of. I burn with desire to know everything important.

I've even had the thought today that my current round of problems is due to my wavering around m and knowledge. I've even considered his dead father as my master at times but have acquired such a disdain for all things Indian and for his family and for my life of going from one serious problem to another that my loyalty to a dead 'master' cannot stand strongly.

My latest diagnosis is schizoaffective disorder, a cross between schizophrenia and bipolar disorder. In terms of bipolar moods, this month has been depression, the previous few months high.

If people are all part of god, then I ask you all to pray for my wellbeing.

Love,

Steve

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 02:29:28 (GMT)
From: Maurice
Email: maurichenderson@eircom.net
To: Steven Quint
Subject: Call For Help
Message:
Hi Steve,Just to let you know you're not alone. for ten years I had all encompassing depression and was diagnosed as manic, bipolar etc. Two years ago I was put on a drug I take every night and it changed my life. I no longer have all those' Quest Ions' about God and whether I wasted my life following an Indian buisiness man around the world. I now feel good, most every day and I thank God for every moment I am not in the Hell I found myself in after leaving those' Lotus Souls' behind. I sometimes get on my knees and put my hands together like a little child and pray to God to help me and take away the despair. I feel it has worked for me. If I could say to another human being that there is a God of love and truth and beauty I would say Yes and I have found him. During my time of mental torture there was nothing but pain and now I feel that, maybe it was important for me to feel what Hell is like, as I am no longer afraid and fear seems like a seperation from that innocence that I gave away seeking the truth in indian mysticism and putting my trust in something that is week and confused and self orientated around one mans state of confusion and conceit. There are no excuses for misleading thousands of impressionable people the way DLM has mislead and destroyed so much innocence for gross material gain and ego satisfaction, I cannot let him off the hook .I can say this much to Steve and anyone else who searched for peace of mind by trying to find something to ease the pain that it took me most of my life to realise, it is always there and life itself is the truth and that your life is the most precious thing you have so don't throw it away ,reach out to people who love God in their hearts and look for God inside your heart and seek out all the help there is available .Maurice.
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Date: Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 05:19:49 (GMT)
From: Curious George
Email: None
To: Maurice
Subject: What's the drug? Sounds good
Message:
I know we all need different drugs but what was the one that made you feel so much better?

C.G.

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Date: Sun, Nov 26, 2000 at 15:21:18 (GMT)
From: Edy
Email: None
To: Steven Quint
Subject: Call For Help
Message:
i am also bipolar, maybe i got it from m. Anyway, i have compassion for your state of mind. I know you don't believe in anything really so i suggest you still your mind (not through meditation) and pray; pray to the God you do not know, that he will help you know him. Earnestly pray to know the truth, the real truth, not anyone's truth. this is not a big mistake that we are all here on this planet; m was right 98% of this world is not real, but he forgot to tell us he is part of that percent. I noticed m quotes the bible dust to dust, become like a child; he is a fruitcake. . . .Get as far away from that whole thing as possible except to get retribution if you need it. Take care of you. You are worth it, we are all worth it.
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Date: Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 12:35:31 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Steven Quint
Subject: Call For Help
Message:
Steven:

I had similar problems back in the early 1970s. In fact, I had spent close a year in the infamous Oregon State Hospital that was the locus of the book and movie 'One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest.' I had just begun to re-socialize when I got into the Maharaj Ji cult. However, I am not sure whether the experience in the cult helped or hurt me. It gave me a focus for a few years, and a somewhat insulated social environment, which weren't really bad from a therapeutic point of view. Things changed quite a bit, however, shortly after I left the cult in 1976 so the era after 1976 might have been very bad for me had I stayed around.

I think whatever it was that had confused me mentally gradually subsided, whether that was the aftermath of the 60s trauma, drugs, or a chemical imbalance in my brain. I stopped hearing voices, seeing through people, seeing size and shape distorted images of the world, etc. I was not getting any particular psychological help at the time, it just went away. Had some notable relapses, but they were brief and I was able to be somewhat objective about them. It took a good 4 or 5 years to get through everything. Family helped. They have to love you whether they like you or not.

--Scott

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Date: Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 10:37:05 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Steven Quint
Subject: Call For Help
Message:
Steve-- if you have schizoaffective disorder, then a great deal of what you feel and think is being generated by chemical connections, that are not happening in their designated job areas in the brain. think of it as a formerly orderly office building, where everyone has somehow gotten LSD in the office water cooler. Imagine the scene that would result: People wandering up and down the aisles, unable to concentrate on their work, forgetting what their task is, lost in the trails or the sounds or the shine on the window glass, seeing profound meanings in their fingertips-- all because there are chemicals where they shouldn't be.If you are supposed to be taking meds, then be sure you are taking them, exactly the way you were ordered to. don't play with your doses, or when you take them. If you have to, get an alarm clock for every time of day you are supposed to take them, and set them to go off at the same point, every day, to remind you to take each of the meds, when you are timed to.My son is schizoaffective with bipolar. I am depressive with obsessive compulsive. He takes zyprexa and risperidol, evenings, and tegretol, mornings. if he misses one dose, his symptoms return. he can't feel the difference, but everyone who knows him well, instantly recognizes that he missed his dose, and calls him on it. He used to get sloppy, and rationalize it, and put off the time of dose later and later, until he was completely fucked up. I set the alarm clock rule, and woke him at dawn to take his tegretol,even though he wasn't getting up for hours. some days he stays up til 5 am, and doesnt get out of bed until 4 in the afternoon. but he finally got in the habit of waking to that alarm, and taking his tegretol, even if he went back to sleep till noon-- and he has leveled out, and become a joy to be with. Same with the zyprexa and risperidol. He takes them at sundown if he feels tired, and wants to fall asleep early, so he can wake up early, or he takes them no later than ten pm, so he will fall asleep after midnight. He is allowed to increase his dose by half, if the symptoms begin to come on heavier, and trouble him, and is allowed to let the dose drop back, if they recede to a comfortable level. He has learned to spot which things he experiences, that match which disorder, and which meds curb them. So has my bipolar girlfriend.both of them used to think that the way they felt and thought was just 'the way life was' and wondered why everybody else didn't do it too. It wasn't until they found the right meds that everything changed in their heads-- and all those strung out office workers got sober again, and went back to their desks, and order was restored. They both tell me what a relief it is to be able to sit comfortably, to be able to experience events stably, to be able to think at an ordinary scale, without generating undue meaning or significance to details anymore. It was the meds. It was not the world. The world didn't change. They did--because they learned to tell when their chemistry was going off, and they learned how to get it back where it was supposed to be, in order to serve them well. I know you feel you want to pray to someone to get you out of this state. That is proof you know someone can get you out of it. someone can. start on the material plane with getting the meds.as far as praying to someone? if you pray, remember to listen too. YOu can indeed imagine God the way you want him to be for you, and he will be that for you. What do you want God to be, for you?? Just Your way. as just another person you can go see, and sit down with and tell...do not be panicked if he seems to change as you change. This is his love, keeping up with you, however you are, however you need him to be, so you can be with him; so he can be with you. It does not mean it is unreal because it changes. It is more real because it changes. it changes so you can find it. things that move are easier to spot than things that stand absolutely still.you can do the same in addressing Jesus. They are different, I have found out. but they are quite real. don't think I am preaching christian doctrine, here. jesus was a jew. and with me at least, he makes jokes about that, when the moment is ripe for one, just to loosen me up, and remind me i can relax and laugh. It's all right. I personally am split, ( no pun intended there) between deciding whether the entities that schizophrenics hear, as voices, are false impressions, caused by chemical accidents in the neurons, or whether they are spiritual abilities, that are genuine, but are being experienced without the correct preparation, training and teaching. Let us say, for the sake of compromise, that if you have to hear voices, then turn yourself to voices you know you could trust, that would never misguide you. Jesus is one you could trust; a known you would have some gut sense for, as to whether what you thought you heard, in the voices, sounded and felt like everything you have heard about him, before you gave him a call. Play it safe. Go to the known, the tried and true.Protect yourself. If thoughts torment you, turn away from thoughts, and turn yourself to something that requires another kind of faculty. singing. music. artwork.dance. play a sport. play a game. go work on a project assembling something tangible. garden. build something. repair something. Make yourself deliberately stay away from talk and words, spoken, read, or written. consciously put yourself on a silence fast. Mime what you need to to communicate for the duration. give it a break.
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Date: Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 08:29:12 (GMT)
From: Beth Murray
Email: bethm64@hotmail.com
To: Steven Quint
Subject: Call For Help
Message:
Dear Steven,
There is nothing I can really say that hasn't already been said, but I'll share something of my own experiences with you.
As an aspirant I fell into such deep depression and self doubt that I became involved in heavy drug use and fell into addiction and all that goes with that. But I doggedly kept on following M, and never was given knowledge. After many years, and being married to a premie, and continuing to battle addiction, I Was help to break free by my family, and am now living free of addiction and free of M.
Please seek help from your doctor or if you have one, psychiatrist that you can trust. There is much research done on the effect cults have, and your diagnosis may not be accurate when they take into account your personal experiences.
Please do not be alone, seek help as soon as possible.
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Date: Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 07:10:07 (GMT)
From: aussi ji
Email: None
To: Steven Quint
Subject: Call For Help
Message:
My heart goes out to you steven it really does.I have had episodes of the deepest darest depression.As somone else said you need to seek professional help,but know there are people out there who care.I hope the cloud lifts soon.

my best wishes to you.Aussi JI.

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Date: Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 06:39:35 (GMT)
From: Jennifer
Email: None
To: Steven Quint
Subject: Call For Help
Message:
Steve,

It's okay not to have all the answers. I surely don't! Some people think they have answers, but they really don't.

Take it easy on yourself right now. Like you said, this is a difficult time. A lot of people here have been where you are (or somewhere close to it) so you are not alone in your feelings.

I don't want to gloss over the medical issues. It will take someone more professional than this forum to help you with depression. Go see someone.

You are in my thoughts,

Jennifer

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 14:18:04 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Jennifer
Subject: Call For Help
Message:
Are you Jennifer B. of eastern Canada? If so, we know each other.

Go see someone.

Advice is good sometimes, but be careful throwing out loose advice. Go see who? I could go to a hospital but the odds are they'd talk to me for a short time a let me go my way. Ideally, I should see a therapist who is an ex-premie. I don't know if there are any around. I might look into it, as my sister is an ex-premie and knows some therapists.

Thanks,

Steve

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Date: Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 05:33:56 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com
To: Steven Quint
Subject: Images of God
Message:
Sometimes it's good to have images that are beneficial. If you want to imagine God, or even do more than imagine Him/Her, then think of a comfortable living room with a homely fire burning in the fireplace.

You walk in and God tells you to come in and sit down and make yourself at home. He asks you if you'd like a tea/coffee/beer or whatever, perhaps a bite to eat, do you need an ashtray?

Then He goes into the kitchen to prepare your drink/food or whatever. When He comes back into the living room, He says,

'Right now Steve, tell me what's troubling you. I'm sure we can sort it out.'

There's no masters, Steve, no avatars, no path and no need to become anything more than what you are right now. There's no need for you to feel guilty about anything. There's just you and us and God is the kind guy who'll sit down with us by the fireside and tell us that He thinks the world of us. Thinks the world of you, Steve.

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Date: Sun, Nov 26, 2000 at 05:28:54 (GMT)
From: Curious George
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Friendly, Santa-like God
Message:
Der Sir Dave,

After reading your helpful post I went into my sitting room put on a nice wood fire and sat with a cup of coffee and was happy that God was there saying everything was O.K. just as it is.

That was very evocative and warm idea that works.

I hope it helps our friend.

Best wishes to you,

Curious Georgie

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 05:28:37 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Curious George
Subject: But we know that can't be the way it is ...
Message:
But we know that can't be the way it is ... could it? Why have life and development of it if everything is perfect, just as it is? Or why would there be a need for you to be curious, Curious George?

Anna being boring, and curious.

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Date: Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 05:40:58 (GMT)
From: C.G.
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: But it's O.K. you just said so
Message:
Anna,

You said just now that you preferred it when your mom told you everything will be O.K. And much preferred it to M's rantings. And so do I.

So there!

C.G.

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Date: Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 05:30:11 (GMT)
From: C.G.
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: Hi Anna
Message:
Dear Anna,

There are whole books on the subject. Can't remember the titles.

The jist of it is go and do nice things ie for homemakers, pick some flowers and put them in a vase. Make some blueberry muffins and put your feet up by the fire with a good book. Invite your best friend over for tea. And on and on.Not sure if there was anything so hectic as paint a room blue. But you get the idea. You know spirituality al a Martha Stewart!

I would have read the whole book but my husband took it to a second hand book store before I got to sit down and read it all the way through! It's all in the mind. You can do anything you want really. Just make sure you don't fall into any cult traps after learning not to get too attached to anything. Love the one you're with. Anyway Sir Dave's mock up relly worked for me the other day.

C.G.

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Date: Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 22:10:26 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: C.G.
Subject: Hi Curious George! and Steve Q!
Message:
I knew I would get called on that one - I was too tired last night... . When 'mom' says everything is going to be okay, it's usually when you've been going flat out to achieve a goal that's missed, or when you've just made a huge mistake or ... . It's not a generalized, 'Relax, don't worry about anything because everything is okay as long as you 'enjoy' life, but rather, 'You've done your best, shit happens, keep on doing your best in good faith, and everything will be okay.' It might seem subtle to some, but it's VERY different to me!

BTW, my mom died over 25 years ago, but I still hear her voice calming me when there's no where to turn - guess it doesn't help much if you didn't have a mom, or one like mine, though. Another think that helps me during 'crisis' periods is to remember that I've been through them before and survived okay.

Actually, on a Martha Stewart theme (not), one good piece of advice I found for helping a friend who is depressed, is to give them a hand cleaning their home (any volunteers in the Montreal area?) I know cq has a great Hoover, but he's on the wrong side of the Atlantic, and my guess is that with your name, C.G., that you probably are too! I know that when I'm feeling overwhelmed cleaning generally falls behind, and soon contributes to any exhaustion/depression I'm feeling.

And I enjoyed Sir Dave's mock up too, I just find it a bit too simplistic and passive, and ultimately not much help if you're in a real crisis.

And since when did 'OK' mean 'perfect'? This thread is beginning to confuse me! (Or am I confused? ;-)

Anna

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 05:50:06 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Stonor
Subject: Curiosity Is Natural And Good, So Is Creativity
Message:
As I have said above, my best friends seem to be atheists. I believe there are people who are strong enough not to have the need to believe in a higher power. I though I was convinced by my atheist friends, but, as I find myself in times of trouble, I find myself talking to and praying to a god.

I also think about god when I feel the world is extremely fucked up, as I do whenever I leave my home, and try to find justice and healing in it all. When amazing coincidences happen to me, as they do every day, I also wonder what is causing them. Life itself is an amazing series of coincidences to me, not that well explained by evolutionary theories.

If everything is perfect, than what makes it perfect? A lot of things are not perfect, in my humble opinion. You seem to indicate you were never a 'premie'. Maybe you don't understand the major mind-fuck we premies have been through with maharaji. When I say major, I mean 'mega'.

Steve

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Date: Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 04:47:53 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Steve Quint
Subject: Curiosity Is Natural And Good, So Is Creativity
Message:
Hi Steve,

I think you misunderstood me - I NEVER said everything is perfect, what I said was 'Why have life and development of it if everything is perfect, just as it is?' In other words, if life were perfect, why would we have any need to develop though learning and making choices. (although considering the mess the world is in, we don't seem to be doing a very good job of it! ;-) And yes, I have been getting some idea of what m has put you all through, and I agree with your term 'mind-fuck', but I would extend it to include 'heart and soul fuck'.

You know, I kind of prefer 'Mom's' 'Everything is going to be okay.' to anything spewed by m. I often have to tell that to myself. (BTW, that's 'okay' not 'perfect', and 'okay' means I'm still alive and functioning! And my curiousity has put me through some pretty touch and go situations! ;-)

Take care,

Anna

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Date: Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 16:10:57 (GMT)
From: purplewing
Email: purplewing@hushmail.com
To: All
Subject: Freedom
Message:
It amazes me that fiends still manage to slip through and that their self aggrandizing approach to the world involves good people seeking a genuine connection with themselves and the world.

I got away without even getting involved; I only heard this *mortal* mans name today and after finding this website, I am convinced that he is evil. I do not believe that betwixt the light and the dark there is such a thing as degrees of good or bad. That which is pure is made impure by the slightest addition or removal of one, another or many elements.

Knowledge is free. Freedom is knowledge and if you have knowledge of something as simple and important as your own name, then you have a damn good start. Ultimately you have not suffered; if you are here and away from Maharaji and his clan, then you have achieved a great success - a knowledge that lies does not bring about the truth. Manipulation is a sign of weakness. Almost all socities call for the subjugation of people
they regulate and control. I'd rather be stuck with idiot politicians than religious freaks and their claptrap.

Make mistakes. Live your own life. Maybe the reason why you were born without a manual or instructions was because you had it all already. Take what you need, throw out what you don't. People are people because of the individual; the individual is not a by product of society. Stand on your own two feet - that's what they are there for and as for the rest - screw them. If you don't like it then tell them to shove it.

My best wishes to you all.

Purplewing

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Date: Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 09:38:00 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Images of God
Message:
Your message reminds me of a meeting I had with Charanand at a premie's home where he was staying in 1987. He offered and made me a tea and we spoke for a while. I remember one question I asked him, 'You translated and used to lead premies in a song called Downpour of the Holy Name. One verse said 'no more suffering and pain'. Do you or did you really believe that knowledge would remove suffering and pain, because I've certainly experienced a lot of both since receiving knowledge? I remember him being stumped and at a loss for words. I didn't know what to make of that but it makes me think.

He didn't look good the last couple of times I saw him over the last two years. I wonder how he's doing.

Steve

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Date: Sun, Nov 26, 2000 at 05:44:17 (GMT)
From: Curious George
Email: None
To: Steve Quint
Subject: Don't you just hate that
Message:
Dear Steve,

I hate it when you ask someone a really meaningful question and they don't answer you. It happened to me recently - well not so recently but that kind of stulted communication just seems to hang there doesn't it. Shame on Charnanand these days. I think he's got an if you can't beat them join them syndrome. He's more interested in expensive tennis rackets and golf courses these days than a premies spiritual progress.

I think Sir Dave and the other post about just trying to enjoy the moment without think-think thinking too much helps a lot. Especially when you don't have to think about m.

All the best,

Curious George

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 04:48:35 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Curious George + Steve Q
Subject: Don't you just hate that
Message:
they all keep telling you not to think too much?

(I'm a pain in the ass to myself tonight!)

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Date: Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 05:02:28 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Steven Quint
Subject: Call For Help
Message:
Steve,

May I suggest that you forget yourself a bit, as hard as that may seem. A way to do that is to do some service for others, like go help serve a meal at a soup kitchen for the homeless, or do some work with Goodwill Industries, or volunteer at a hospital. About 25 years ago, I volunteered at a hospital to just sit in a rocker and hold babies who had 'failure to thrive syndrome'. They were not thriving because the parents were either split up or very young and scared and unmarried, or or drugs...so I would just sit there and rock these babies and look into their huge little saucer eyes and get so high and feel so good exchanging juice with them. I was giving them something they needed and they were giving me something I needed, a sense of worth and of being needed. In doing for others not only do we forget ourselves, but it has been my experience that the Good Lord can work on us better when we are not all tied up in ourselves. Sometimes when we leave something alone and go do someting else entirely unrelated for someone else who may be in a worse state, we get taken care of. All the best.

Sandy

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Date: Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 21:06:51 (GMT)
From: ExTex
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: Brilliant Post, shp. Beautiful. (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 02:58:48 (GMT)
From: ExTex
Email: None
To: Steven Quint
Subject: Call For Help
Message:
Steve, hang in there my friend. Try this, if possible...

Forget about all the STUFF about spiritual this and that. Just stop!

Quit analysing everything. There is nowhere to go! There is nothing to do! There are no secrets to learn, no cosmic 'aha's' to come to for the BIG MEANING! If anything, the 'secret info' is that there IS NO SECRET INFO! It is ALL right now, right here! THIS IS IT! It may be a bit of a disapointment, BUT THIS IS IT! BEING right where you are RIGHT NOW!

Stop worrying about what you should or shouldn't do or believe. It doesn't make a bit of difference. STOP!

In the vast expanse of the space time continuum....it's all NOTHING! Take a look into the night sky....forever. It is all just rolling along in perfect order. And you and I are enmeshed in the whole flux of it all....lovely.

If you need to hang on to anything...hang on to LOVE!
There is nothing to do...nowhere to go....there is nothing to know....just love being. You can do that. You know how to do that. It is amazingly simple. Trust your heart. It is as valid as anyone else's opinion. More valid than anyone else's opinion concerning YOU.

RELAX! You cannot blow it. It is a given. No matter what it seems...It all is happening as it should be for you.

The point is it is pointless and THAT is beautiful.
I sincerely wish you well and this bit of blurb that I send you is not sarcasm or making light of your situation.

Watch an old Marx Brothers movie....LAUGH!
LAUGH AT THE COSMIC HUMOR OF SWEET NOTHING!

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Date: Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 03:14:08 (GMT)
From: ExTex
Email: None
To: Steve
Subject: Call For Help-PS
Message:
And if you are supposed to take any meds for your particular situation.....TAKE THEM. If they are not helping...talk to your Doc and get one's that will help. It is just a matter of learning how to maintain the upkeep and maintenance of your particular physical/chemical/hormonal body.

I know because I take my ZOLOFT anti-depressant daily to maintain my proper serotonin level in my brain chemistry. It is like a diabetic taking their insolin. Proper maintenance. Like putting oil in your car. Nothing to do with Guru's or cosmic knowledge. It is much more mundane than that. Like I said ...maintenance.

Good vibes to ya.

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Date: Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 02:24:34 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Steven Quint
Subject: labels
Message:
There are more bipolar variations than I can think of.
Mine is dysphoric mania.
Steve I wrote this to you before and I have to repeat myself.
Please do not take it the wrong way I only mean the best.
OK having said that: this is ex-premie.org.
This forum is a great place and I have found a few friends here out of almost 3 years participation.
But I do not think it's a good place to find help when in crisis or when going through anything real serious. I am not giving empty advice I learned this the hard way.
People mean well but may not always take into consideration your situation OR they may play counselor. Not sure which is worse. Please be careful.
And I wish you well and hope you get through this. The fact that you are asking for help means to me that you will get through it I think. Sorry if this is out of hand but I had to write this.
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Date: Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 05:17:02 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: thread
Subject: ps the UA lost and Tomey resigned
Message:
after years of earning a higher salary than the president.

And I just finished watching High Fidelity. I thought it was a rip-off on Singles. What do I know? no one commented on my watching The Insider. Big surprise.

And I realized I gave advice to you Steven. Something I try so hard not do on this forum, since I feel I have no capacity or qualifications. Hope you are ok and will get confort wherever you can, even here if that is what it takes.

So what to say?
Getting rid of the cult is a bitch. Very hard and takes a long long time. Best wishes.

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Date: Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 21:15:57 (GMT)
From: ExTex
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: coincidence (ot)
Message:
Selene, I too just finished watching 'High Fidelity' (cosmic, huh?...kidding)
I spent years of my life running record stores just like the one in the film....
and I gotta say that they sure had that scene down perfect!
I nearly wet my pants laughing at the dialogue in the record store. It was so absolutely accurate!
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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 03:15:03 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: ExTex
Subject: Are you Maryse! I never know why she hasn't (ot)
Message:
Are you Maryse! I never know why she hasn't turned up again yet - she lived her life in Towers, it seemed. Why is it that most of our lives can be seen as part of comedy routines? Ever wonder about the parts of our lives that can't be put into a comedy format?
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Date: Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 21:22:15 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: ExTex
Subject: the dialog in the record store (OT OT)
Message:
was/were the BEST parts of that movie. I wish they had enchanced that part. The relationship stuff dragged on. Too bad. The record store stuff was excellent, very funny.
Ever see Clerks? It reminded me of that. I did like the movie overall, just wish it had realized it's potential.
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Date: Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 01:27:15 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: The book is something else
Message:
Nick Hornby has transformed brit lit, along with a few other younger writers.

Fever Pitch about an obsessive footie fan is excellent too

Anything by him is worth reading.

His new book is about his relationship with his kid who has autism, supposed to be very different, but still reaslly good

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Date: Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 01:52:04 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Steven Quint
Subject: Call For Help
Message:
Steve,

Are you still going to counciling, you know, the people you used before.? If so, do they know about your obsession with these thought? Have you spoken to any off your friends about how you feel, what do they actually tell you?

Are you under medication? ARE you taking them?

Salam

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Date: Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 09:42:41 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Salam
Subject: Call For Help
Message:
Yes, I go for counselling once a week, but that obviously leaves a lot of time in between. I went to a hospital Sunday night, but only stayed for less than an hour.

Thanks,

Steve

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Date: Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 11:59:04 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Steve Quint
Subject: Call For Help
Message:
Steve,

The hardest thing for one that is depressed is to make decisions and see a way out of a situation. I know, I was there. The problem is always, when it is gonna happen next, because it is OK to talk about it when you are feeling fine. The shit part is when you are immersed in it. For a long time I could not (and still am) find a balance in the way I lived my everyday life. When I am feeling good, I can function normally or part off, when on the other hand I am depressed, all I see is darkness, nowhere to go. Does not matter what people say or do to me, it does not have any effect one me. The medications that I was prescribed at the start of my episode was the wrong one. It took ages for the doctors to come up with an exact analysis to what was wrong with me and it is taken about a year and a half for me to start feeling better again, but even then I slip back every now and then.

I have learned that the only thing that I can do when shit happenes is to let everyone know about it, does not matter who they are, neither it matters what they say. The fact that I can bring it out seems to help.

In the end it comes out to one thing. I am sure you are aware of that. Other have said it. It is a chemical imbalance in the brain that does it. Belive me, I have seen people going to council over and over and over again. I have come to belive that the healing process includes the will to be healed. You have to want it to happen. Dig deep inside. It is all there. Find the real Steve that has been burried and covered over by rawat. You are the key.

Get well,

Salam

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Date: Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 10:20:59 (GMT)
From: Steverino
Email: None
To: Steve Quint
Subject: Drek's Hall o'Shame
Message:
take a breath Steve..
Ever hear of Steve Allen ?
they call'd him Steverino..
funny guy...
just died..
he can't no breathdddd any mo'...
now. Mr.Stevequint..
I ax ya..
You gonna ask X's to pray ?
for U ?
cough cough....ah hmmnnn..a hymne ? a him ?
mirror mirror on the breath
I need 2 c god, b4 my death.
I ax ya now 2 b so kind
and kiss yo' bloody arse go bye
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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 05:57:19 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Steverino
Subject: F. O.
Message:
Who the fuck are you and what are you doing here?

Fuck off.

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 19:47:59 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Steve Quint
Subject: Good One Steve....F.O. To that idiot! nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 17:58:58 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Steve
Subject: To Steve
Message:
Hi Steve,

I, too, have had many, many emotional crises. I don't know anything about your disorder, but I do know how it feels to be in the pit of depression and in crisis. It's just awful. Be patient with yourself, you deserve it. If you have voices in your head, and you feel unsafe, well then call your shrink or just go right to the ER--that's what they're for. Please keep yourself safe.

It wasn't just before and after Maharaji that I had depression; I have had clinical depression among many other emotional disorders since childhood. I respect that you can reach out to us, yet that's not enough. I can't place my arms into cyberspace and hold you or give you a comforting hug, but I am sending one to you from my heart right now.:)))

All the programming in the cult was based on two things: that K was a panacea for everything; and only M could see you through to realize K. That betrayal alone is enough to send anyone off the deep end and M's negative programming about seeking outside help is a crock of shit. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!! He's a basket case. Here we have a person who calls himself God and even he's been in therapy, what a fucking asshole!

You may not know it now Steve, but you are a survivor, you can make it through this piece. It's so hard, I know, but you can do it.

You mentioned asking Charanand about depression, etc. He's just another programmed big time PAM. And he personally contributed to a major crisis in my life back in the late 70's, so I'm not surprised he didn't have an answer. He's full of shit, too. I don't like him at all; I have no respect for him whatsoever.

Please be safe and good to yourself. If you need to sleep, do it. If you can, go get some human contact, even if it's a walk down a street. Do whatever it takes to keep yourself safe right now. Your fragility worries me, Steve, but I sense you really are stronger than you believe.

Love,
Cynthia


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Date: Sun, Nov 26, 2000 at 03:35:56 (GMT)
From: Disculta
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: To Steve
Message:
Dear Steve,

I want to say that I am very glad that you have asked for help, although I agree with others above that it's REALLY important that you get some biochemical help, and keep at it until you get the right balance, and also, keep open to some really good counselling. As a former counsellor for many years, I know that there is a huge difference between different counsellors.

When I read the responses to your call for help, I started crying, because I could really feel the presence of God in the love and many-sided wisdom that was being expressed, and I just wanted to tell you that you are not alone. I too, like many of those above, have gone through many incredible dark nights of the soul. I went through a few years of occasional cycles of despair, after I left the cult. I'm not sure exactly how it was related to my 12 years in the cult. The subject matter wasn't Maharaji, but the many years, at a formative age, spent suppressing my real feelings and inner knowing caused everything to spew out of balance when I started coming back to myself. I am now so, so, so much better, and I know that you too will come through this to look back with a grin.

God/goddess is definitely love, and you are full of it and surrounded by it, and I send you some from me,

Love Disculta

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Date: Fri, Nov 24, 2000 at 20:37:36 (GMT)
From: Bongo
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: satguru has gone.....
Message:
..fridom fridom! Oh how I have been possesed by Jesus and science.
Now for the future. Love B.
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Date: Sun, Nov 26, 2000 at 14:24:18 (GMT)
From: Bingo
Email: loaf@superheros.as
To: Bongo
Subject: satguru has gone.....time for me to move on
Message:
ADVERTISEMENT

Devotee seeks Master

I am wired and configured with a throne built in.

Staging, lighting all very flattering to the occupant.

Belief system fully functioning on every level

Ego wired for mock humility and self importance (what a combination !)

Is ther an organisation out there which could shelter me from THIS world ??

Applications to the Dibine Orphanage for retired Gimps

Leaving his locust feet... where can I go ??

Strike up the mirth engine - the journey continues !

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Date: Sun, Nov 26, 2000 at 14:40:59 (GMT)
From: Bango
Email: None
To: Bingo
Subject: I Here
Message:
I would like apply for job. My English not great but who care, right? I have the right feel.

Master Bango

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Date: Sun, Nov 26, 2000 at 16:52:14 (GMT)
From: Bingo
Email: None
To: Bango
Subject: hold the press..
Message:
I quite like the sound of the new improved, Detmers-modified rawat. He reminds me of me. A feckless egoist, trying to make an easy buck. I might re-apply.
love B.
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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 14:46:53 (GMT)
From: Master Bango
Email: None
To: Bingo
Subject: All You Need Is Feck
Message:
Master Bango like the Beatles.

Can Bingo help Master Bango make easy buck. Please apply for job Mickael Detmers is already used.

M.B.

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 01:55:59 (GMT)
From: Master Bango
Email: None
To: Bingo
Subject: Don't Insult Master Bango
Message:
Master Bango have lots of feck. Please don't insult again.

M.B.

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Date: Sun, Nov 26, 2000 at 16:56:38 (GMT)
From: Bongo
Email: None
To: Bingo
Subject: hold the press..
Message:
The Bingo post above is actually from Bongo.Credit where credit is due. Sorry Bingo. Slip of the index finger.Love Bongo.
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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 00:39:01 (GMT)
From: Dingo
Email: None
To: Bongo
Subject: Stop talking to yourself..nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 07:47:45 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Bongo
Subject: There wasn't one to begin with...nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 21:58:30 (GMT)
From: ExTex
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: There wasn't one to begin with...nt
Message:
It has been said that 'nothing is good or bad but thinking makes it so'!
His Perfectness said 'DON'T THINK'.

Think about it! LOL!

What does that leave you with?
A turnip? A bean? A squash?

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Date: Fri, Nov 24, 2000 at 18:40:16 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Reply to Disculta from the recent Inactive Index
Message:
Hi Disculta,

Your name is very unnique name from my experience. What is its derivation?

My birth religion, Judaism, had taught me more about ethics and human relationships than about the Deity, which was always shrouded in mystery. A wave of people came into bodies around the same time, post-war 1940's, who would eventually grow up
and want to have a more direct relationship with and awareness of the Deity. Maybe it was a result of the worldwide fallout from the nukes, who knows? So when the 13 year old Maharaji came along
proclaiming to be bringing the Knowledge of God and Peace to the world, we were already primed....

I was actively seeking enlightenment since my teenage years.
I read Autobiography of a Yogi by Yogananda and used to play games with Babji in the middle of the night in a totally dark room. I'd lay there and pretend to be sleeping, and then suddenly say 'Babaji!' in a loud whisper, so as not to wake the rest of the family. Immediately, I would experience a blue shaft of laser-like light pierce through the dark ceiling of my bedroom and into my chest and heart. It was like a shock every
time and it felt so cool and natural. In the book, it was said that if you say Babaji's (the eternally youthful 2000+ year old yogi who lives in the Himalayas) name with faith, you
get an immediate blessing. I was testing that theory and it was working and introducing me to real spiritual power, not a just building full of traditions and rituials. One night I
was reading the book in my parent's living room. It was very late and I was experimenting with my vision, just staring at my foot resting in front of me on the recliner. I was getting a buzzing feeling, and alot of evergy was becoming evident to my
senses in the form of auric light and a change in visual acuity to a sharpness I cannot describe, laserlike. Anyway, I remember my mom coming out of the dark hallway and looking over at the chair I was in and acting like she was seeing something that was
very surprising. I knew this by the way she called my name, a bit freaked. I don't know what she saw, if she saw light, if I had disappeared to her, or something. But her response was on that calibre. I asked her wht hse saw and she never has talked about
it to this day. Now she says she doesn;t even remember the event.

A few years later, in college, I did the same sort of test with Jesus the Christ and also got an immediate answer.

Did my share of psychedelics and took them as medicine and as teachers, as sacred, not just as a joyride and a hoot. Learned alot. (When I heard that Charanand had said that LSD was like John the Bsptist for Maharaji, I could relate to that.)

Spent time on the Farm in Tennessee learning from Stephen Gaskin.
I know there are folks who love him and folks who hate him. All I can say about my personal relationhship with him is that he taught me alot about being straight and about truth.

Spent time in a monestary also looking for more maps to heaven within, went through some very high energy initiations. During my stay in the monestary, I was a channel for some healings that have been described as miracles in other situations with other players, let's just put it that way....saw a poster of
Maharaji, the one with a closeup of his face and the simple question, 'Who is Guru Maharaji?' After a long and winding road of meeting premies in southern Illinois in the mid 1970's, leaving the monestary and hooking up with premies, seeing Maharaji in the Poconos for the first time, having a very strong personal connection with him eye to eye, I received Knowledge in 1978 in Philadelphia, Overbrook Ashram, David Smith instructor. Some of my zaps from Babaji years earlier had more juice than the Knowledge session provided, but I was told that it was not about 'cosmic' experience, it was much more subtle than that...

Maharaji never did anything to me personally to mess with me. I had some very high experiences in his presence and have had extremely high experiences in my practice of Knowledge and my daily life while in the practice of Knowledge. What is creating my dissatisfaction is what I am learning about him from the direct experiences of other people with Knowledge, people who had very different experiences than I had, those experiences being less than what I would expect from him. It is that simple.

So why am I telling you all this you may ask, Disculta? I guess it is coming out of me to let you know that I am not without my wits when it comes to my freedom and my continuing path to fulfillment, wherever it may lead me. I know the Bible can be used to prove a multitude of diametrically opposing viewpoints.
It was my own personal experiences I wass having and continue to have that intuitively communicate to me that I was having a similar experience as so-and-so was having in the Bible. These experiences are not extinct, they are available and free to anyone who wants to tune into a particluar frequency, much like a radio station. I thank you for your input and you energy.

I have to say that I can relate to how you felt during satsang programs. I felt that way too many times, but fought the urge because of the way he was presented as the Living Perfect Master. I knew what it felt like to get high from listening to someone speak, from the virtue of what was being said. If he was It, then it must be me who is out of whack. And that is what I chose to believe.

So as my post title states, I am now faced with reviewing my discernment, my faith in answers to my own prayers, and my self-esteem.

Working out alot in this lifetime as so many of us are,

Sandy

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Date: Fri, Nov 24, 2000 at 19:22:09 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: Reply to Disculta from the recent Inactive Index
Message:
sandy, i think you should save exactly what you have written here as the opening of your Journey entry, down to the part where it says 'it was much more subtle than that'. in fact you could follow it with the text you posted here the other day of your terrible doubts, now that you realize, at your age, about wanting to send your son to college, and about having no career or savings because of maharaji's demands to follow him all these years, while his kids always get the best of everything. that would be enough to go on record with for now, and you can add to it later, as i have. but it's clear and its enough. we have always welcomed you.
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Date: Sat, Nov 25, 2000 at 04:51:32 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: reply to janet
Message:
In all fairness to all involved, I cannot hold Maharaji entirely responsible for the state of my finances/career. But on a very deep level, he did affect me and give me reason to believe that everything would be fine in the long run if I paid more attention to him than to my work. I cannot say I always did that. But the seed was planted in my brain to not worry about jobs or money, so I didn't. Was I taking him too literally? At the time, I was not. None of us were. His words were agya, remember?

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Date: Fri, Nov 24, 2000 at 19:07:30 (GMT)
From: Bazza
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: Reply to Disculta from the recent Inactive Index
Message:
That was a beautiful to read, Sandy. Thank you for sharing all that. Seems like you are half-way towrd writing your 'journey':)

good luck.

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Date: Fri, Nov 24, 2000 at 18:54:44 (GMT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: How are you?
Message:
Jeez, you've been posting here for nearly two years now. How's it going? I'm glad to see you working through this mess. All the best.
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Date: Fri, Nov 24, 2000 at 19:33:49 (GMT)
From: Disculta
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Way cool!
Message:
Hi thanks for your reply to my reply.

My name is a pseudonym, meaning that I have been discultified.

I loved your tales of Babaji and all. I've had experiences with him and Yoganand too.

Sorry if anything I said sounded condescending! I really get that you are in touch with yourself.

love disculta

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