Forum V: Archive
Compiled: Wed, Dec 13, 2000 at 14:20:51 (GMT)
From: Nov 22, 2000 To: Dec 10, 2000 Page: 3 Of: 5


Aussi Ji -:- Question -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 23:03:22 (GMT)
__ sam -:- Question -:- Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 07:27:55 (GMT)
__ __ Aussi JI -:- Question -:- Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 09:11:03 (GMT)

Helen -:- The Messiah Loop -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 22:24:11 (GMT)
__ Katie -:- Hey Helen -:- Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 17:27:02 (GMT)
__ __ Stonor -:- Hey Helen and Katie! -:- Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 04:11:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ Helen -:- Hey Helen and Katie! -:- Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 21:41:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Hey Helen and Katie! -:- Thurs, Nov 30, 2000 at 03:33:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Hey Helen and Anna! -:- Thurs, Nov 30, 2000 at 03:41:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Girls Night Out! (or Girl's Night Online?!) -:- Thurs, Nov 30, 2000 at 04:17:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Katie -:- Hey Helen and Anna! -:- Thurs, Nov 30, 2000 at 00:23:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Hey Katie and Helen! -:- Thurs, Nov 30, 2000 at 03:43:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Helen -:- blame it ont he mudslide -:- Thurs, Nov 30, 2000 at 03:57:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- LOL!!! Let's embrace our BRILLIANT blondness!! -:- Thurs, Nov 30, 2000 at 04:11:55 (GMT)
__ Selene -:- hey Helen remember -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 22:55:40 (GMT)
__ __ ham -:- So c'mon then, I'm sure we can find some Irish -:- Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 04:01:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ gerry -:- Ham, where do I sign up... (nt) -:- Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 16:59:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ Selene -:- it's the damned French in me clouding the issue -:- Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 04:13:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ ham -:- Yeah, shall -:- Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 04:37:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- well well life breathes here -:- Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 04:45:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ ham -:- Nice one Selene -:- Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 05:09:05 (GMT)
__ __ Helen -:- hey Helen remember -:- Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 02:54:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ Selene -:- my husband is watching PBS right now -:- Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 04:25:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Helen -:- my husband is watching PBS right now -:- Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 00:05:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ ham -:- And such an individual experience, -:- Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 04:09:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Helen -:- And such an individual experience, -:- Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 00:10:17 (GMT)
__ __ Selene -:- ps I was praising our elan vital not theirs -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 23:02:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ Cynthia -:- Elan Vital: The Vital Force or Impulse of Life nt -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 23:05:45 (GMT)
__ __ Cynthia -:- Writers Block -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 23:02:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ Selene -:- yeah journaling is really good -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 23:05:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Helen -:- yeah journaling is really good -:- Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 00:08:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ ham -:- No teasing babes -:- Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 04:43:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- from my last entry (uck someone will call it -:- Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 05:01:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ ham -:- Fuck em if they can't deal with the shadow side -:- Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 05:17:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- and doesn't it describe ... -:- Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 23:05:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ ham -:- Sounds spot on to me -:- Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 01:36:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Wow! Are you on a posting roll or what!!?? -:- Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 02:11:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- thank you. -:- Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 00:41:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- sure you can use it, thanks -:- Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 05:20:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ ham -:- ain't the net a wonderful thing, -:- Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 05:32:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- You got me on that one, it would be worth a try -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 23:09:53 (GMT)

Way -:- Giant Sai Baba expose -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 21:11:44 (GMT)
__ bill -:- Giant Sai Baba expose -:- Mon, Dec 04, 2000 at 18:30:25 (GMT)
__ Way -:- update on the India Today article -:- Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 15:52:02 (GMT)
__ C.G. -:- Swami Rama guilty of sexual abuse -:- Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 04:34:03 (GMT)
__ Kelly -:- Giant Sai Baba expose -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 22:20:57 (GMT)
__ __ Way -:- Giant Sai Baba expose -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 22:52:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ Kelly -:- guys or gals? -:- Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 16:04:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Way -:- yeah, but... -:- Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 17:53:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Kelly -:- Your journey... -:- Fri, Dec 01, 2000 at 21:28:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- yeah, but... -:- Thurs, Nov 30, 2000 at 04:01:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Kelly -:- Ahah! gul or gay..?. -:- Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 23:24:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ Nigel -:- Giant Sai Baba expose -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 23:24:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ jondon -:- Sai Baba is huge... -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 23:59:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Giant Sai Baba expose... -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 23:40:04 (GMT)

Way -:- Tonight's 20/20 -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 20:59:29 (GMT)
__ Cynthia -:- Thanks for the reminder, Way....nt -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 22:50:48 (GMT)
__ __ Susan -:- just saw it -:- Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 06:27:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Hey Susan ? Would you email me -:- Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 16:53:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ Way -:- 150 million dollars -:- Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 15:32:43 (GMT)

M's Manicurist -:- Is there someone called 'Me' out there? -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 19:07:24 (GMT)
__ Gail -:- Are you/were you really M's Manicurist? (nt) -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 19:16:58 (GMT)
__ __ C.G. -:- Are you/were you really M's Manicurist? (nt) -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 19:26:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ Gail -:- You got me, CG! (NT) -:- Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 16:04:38 (GMT)

Curious George -:- Come on someone help me out here -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 17:16:13 (GMT)
__ Curious George -:- Can't believe this mystery is still unsolved -:- Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 04:54:11 (GMT)
__ Lotus Eater -:- Come on someone help me out here -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 20:14:38 (GMT)
__ __ C.G. -:- Sorry, wrong.... -:- Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 04:42:26 (GMT)
__ Gail -:- Was it Arti?????????????? -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 18:46:33 (GMT)
__ __ Steve Quint -:- Once We're In The Swing Of Things -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 19:54:46 (GMT)
__ __ C.G. -:- Was it Arti?????????????? -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 18:56:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ Cynthia -:- Hi C.G., I have a tape of Charanand's 70s hits... -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 20:10:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Your box of stuff -:- Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 01:08:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Marianne -:- Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 01:51:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Okay, Okay, I'll look in my box tomorrow.... -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 23:46:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ C.G. -:- Okay, Okay, I'll look in my box tomorrow.... -:- Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 04:47:44 (GMT)

Curious George -:- Adulation Addiction -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 02:13:29 (GMT)
__ Joe -:- Hi CG -- narcissistic personality -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 19:05:00 (GMT)
__ __ hamzen -:- Hey Joe, what an odd person he is. -:- Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 03:16:32 (GMT)
__ __ Cynthia -:- Hi Joe -- narcissistic personality -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 20:02:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ Joe -:- Hi Cynthia -- the election got me down -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 23:56:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Hi Joe -:- Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 02:07:26 (GMT)
__ __ C.G. -:- Exclusive Club! -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 19:24:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ Joe -:- No, I was never a PAM... -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 23:46:25 (GMT)
__ C.G. -:- Talking of Adulation did any of you 90,000 -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 02:41:56 (GMT)
__ __ Cynthia -:- Funny you should mention his baad dancing... -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 02:58:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ hamzen -:- And absolutely no sense of body rhythm, -:- Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 04:06:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ JTF -:- Funny you should mention his baad dancing... -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 11:31:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Scott T. -:- I think I can solve this mystery... -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 15:26:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ Salam -:- Funny you should mention his baad dancing... -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 03:33:49 (GMT)

Cynthia -:- Myths and Lies By Cultists Danny and Bimbo -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 01:28:36 (GMT)
__ Katie -:- Myths and Rationalizations By Bimbo -:- Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 14:00:24 (GMT)
__ __ Cynthia -:- Myths and Rationalizations By Bimbo -:- Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 15:49:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ Katie -:- Myths and Rationalizations By Bimbo -:- Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 17:17:17 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- Well said Cynthia (nt) -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 09:53:43 (GMT)
__ Cynathia -:- I lost quite a bit of above post^^^not enough -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 01:33:14 (GMT)
__ __ Bimbo -:- Re Myths and Facts -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 02:07:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Worse than you make out, Bimbo -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 14:01:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ Stonor -:- Re Myths in your mind -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 02:17:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Salam -:- Bimbo, are you thick or dumb. -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 03:13:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Bimbo -:- Bimbo, thick and dumb? -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 09:13:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Take this challenge.... -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 17:02:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Bimbo -:- Re this challenge.... -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 20:39:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- You're one weird fucker, bjorn -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 23:57:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Monmot -:- You're one weird fucker, bjorn -:- Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 06:05:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ hamzen -:- This guy might not be a paedophile -:- Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 04:54:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- Well I am holding to my seat. Bimbo is angry. -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 10:58:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Bimbo -:- Bimbo - angry in the real life .... -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 11:27:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- You are a dorck. -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 12:43:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Bimbo -:- I am a defender of truth -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 12:54:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- Bang -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 13:32:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ janet -:- lets see you take this dare, then -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 09:27:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ Cynthia -:- To: Bimbo, the Really Stupid -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 02:13:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Stonor -:- To: Bimbo, the Really Stupid -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 02:24:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- To Stonor -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 02:42:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Yeah, but ... it's a fine line it seems. NT -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 02:45:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- I agree, Bimbo has to defend his cult leader at -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 02:52:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Hal -:- Bimbo is a lower still incarnation of Bjorn nt -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 08:15:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Bimbo est un douleur dans nos feces!! -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 03:04:03 (GMT)
__ __ Cynthia -:- Never Mind.....It came back.......NT -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 02:04:33 (GMT)

Salam -:- To Kelly. Re: Jagdeo -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 00:33:13 (GMT)
__ Kelly -:- To Kelly. Re: Jagdeo -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 16:35:54 (GMT)
__ __ Salam -:- To Kelly. Re: Jagdeo -:- Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 02:34:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Here's Mahatamaji's phone#! -:- Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 08:11:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Salam -:- Here's Mahatamaji's phone#! -:- Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 12:04:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Here's Mahatamaji's phone#! -:- Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 15:55:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- Thank you -:- Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 16:38:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Everyone should call him - Ah, Jim? -:- Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 21:01:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- I agree, Jim's next mission: The Phone Call -:- Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 22:18:11 (GMT)

AJW -:- Danny, Maharaji and the Paedophile. -:- Sun, Nov 26, 2000 at 20:16:17 (GMT)
__ Nigel -:- Danny's non-response, in case you missed it... -:- Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 19:32:52 (GMT)
__ __ Stonor -:- just more 'covert-aggressive' cult behaviour -:- Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 05:22:29 (GMT)
__ Bimbo -:- Anth and the truth -:- Sun, Nov 26, 2000 at 23:52:25 (GMT)
__ __ AJW -:- Bimbo- Defender of the Paedophile -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 09:46:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ Bimbo -:- Anth and the truth -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 11:05:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Katie -:- Bimbo and the truth -:- Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 14:15:23 (GMT)
__ Kelly -:- Danny, Maharaji and the Paedophile. -:- Sun, Nov 26, 2000 at 21:15:34 (GMT)
__ __ Joy -:- Danny, Maharaji and the Paedophile. -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 18:25:00 (GMT)
__ __ Michael Dettmers -:- Danny, Maharaji and the Paedophile. -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 03:11:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ Kelly -:- the Paedophile.has moved on -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 21:24:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Bimbo -:- Re Jagdeo has moved on -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 21:52:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ hamzen -:- How's your paedophile therapy going? (nt) -:- Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 05:35:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Bimbo...Shut the F**K up! nt -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 22:54:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Monmot -:- To Bjorn the Bimbo -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 22:13:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- thanks Monmot -:- Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 00:28:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Monmot -:- You're welcome...He drives me nuts too. nt -:- Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 01:52:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ Bimbo -:- Michael, are you stupid or just dishonest? -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 09:26:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Michael Dettmers -:- Neither stupid nor a liar -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 10:17:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ A knowlegable one -:- Just stupid -:- Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 08:13:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jethro -:- Jagdeo was a university professor. It was -:- Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 18:55:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ The Hint -:- Jagdeo was a university professor. It was -:- Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 08:15:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- Jagdeo was a university professor. It was -:- Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 02:09:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Bimbo -:- Neither stupid nor a liar? -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 11:18:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ janet and her army -:- Michael, are you stupid or just dishonest? -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 09:41:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ Stonor -:- Danny, Maharaji and the Paedophile. -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 03:27:29 (GMT)
__ __ Susan -:- wow.... -:- Sun, Nov 26, 2000 at 21:56:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Amar school is next building -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 08:51:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Kelly -:- Amar school is next building -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 16:22:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- But what about the boarding school? -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 18:20:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Oh Kelly, this is bad news -:- Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 17:25:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Kelly -:- Oh Kelly, this is bad news -:- Fri, Dec 01, 2000 at 22:01:52 (GMT)


Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 23:03:22 (GMT)
From: Aussi Ji
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Question
Message:
Does anyone out there in Aussiland know what happened to Johnny Young (remember young talent time,that sugarry show us more mature aussi's were raised on)
I heard he went to the states a few times to meet M and then he left knowledge.Does anyone out there know what happened?
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Date: Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 07:27:55 (GMT)
From: sam
Email: None
To: Aussi Ji
Subject: Question
Message:
not much more than u know. heard he left. but did u also notice lindsey fields from old william street days is a back-up singer with john farnham and ronnie burns also used to meditate( not sure which type), but johnnie and ronnie were friends from way back---a little aussie trivie-- ring a bell?
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Date: Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 09:11:03 (GMT)
From: Aussi JI
Email: None
To: sam
Subject: Question
Message:
Thanks sivan I did know that.I thought he had left,but looks like he didn't.
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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 22:24:11 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: The Messiah Loop
Message:
I had a great talk with a certain ex-premie this weekend. Don't know if he'd mind me quoting him so I'll call him Mr. Done Looping. We talked about how one can be driven by a certain loop in the brain (much like the way a computer program loops around and around) that consists of our unquestioned assumptions, rules and beliefs. FOr example, the unquestioned belief that somewhere out there is the Messiah who will show us 'the true purpose of our lives.' In the 70s we were willing to saacrifice it all on the chance that M was the messiah and some of us compulsively turned to serial Messiah-surrendering in the futile attempt to find Him. Talk about not learning from one's experience!

Another erroneous premise, rule, or belief is that at some point in one's life perfection will be attained. meanwhile, real life with its ups and downs disproves this hypothesis or belief at every turn. But the brain involved in the mind loop seeking the Messiah or perfection keeps a looking for it, despite all evidence to the contrary.

Reading the Elan Vital newsletter link posted here, I see that M is still banking on feeding these erroneous and crazy-making beliefs with the 'Cinderella' metaphors. GAG ME!!

Helen

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Date: Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 17:27:02 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: Hey Helen
Message:
It's probably better not to disclose that 'high-ranking' ex-premies from the U.S. and Australia met this weekend at the 'Amaroo' Inn (snicker - sure was fun to mess with the Ramada Inn sign).

BTW, Brian and I had a great time meeting with you and TD!

Love,
Katie

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Date: Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 04:11:44 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Katie and Helen
Subject: Hey Helen and Katie!
Message:
Hope you're both doing well and I wish I could have been there at the Amaroo Inn! I'm still playing catch-up and I hope it doesn't become a way of life! ;-)

Big hugs to you both! (and give one to Gary and Brian for me too ... oh the heartbreak of vicarious thrills! ;-)

Anna

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Date: Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 21:41:40 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: Hey Helen and Katie!
Message:
Dear Stonor,
I wish you had been there too. Meeting up with other exes is definitely a positive experience and let me tell you, the conversation never lags!

TD and I probably set the record for blabbing, but I sure did talk katie's ear off after having a cocktail called a 'Mudslide' --I guess it's called that because of the b.s. that will roll of one's tongue after drinkin' it--ha ha!

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Date: Thurs, Nov 30, 2000 at 03:33:01 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: Hey Helen and Katie!
Message:
Did Tami Rainbow put in an appearance ofter the 'Mudslide' that was no doubt caused by '40 days and 40 nights' of stormy weather?

(And what on earth is in a 'mudslide'? I asked Monmot about some exotic drink she had mentioned. Who dreams them up! (the mixes AND the names!)

Glad you had a great time!

Anna

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Date: Thurs, Nov 30, 2000 at 03:41:13 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: Hey Helen and Anna!
Message:
Hi Anna -
Don't know what is in a 'mudslide' (this was in Virginia, and the bartender was a local black man, so could have been a local drink), but it was way too chocolately for me :).

Didn't get to see Tami. But maybe if we can get Helen away from her family for more than one night - who knows?

TC -
Katie

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Date: Thurs, Nov 30, 2000 at 04:17:55 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Girls Night Out! (or Girl's Night Online?!)
Message:
I was really surprised to see that Helen is here and posting, and now you!!! It is Girl's Night Online tonight! Where is G? (just joking G! ... ahhh, synchronicity!

(Do you think it would really take more than one night for Tami to come out? Maybe if we dress up like turkeys or something that would help ... hey! I still have my old rooster costume, but I don't have the wrap around sunglasses anymore - no problem, I'll find a replacement!)

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Date: Thurs, Nov 30, 2000 at 00:23:03 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: Hey Helen and Anna!
Message:
Hey, Helen didn't talk my ear off - she talked BRIAN's ear off, and he's always ready to respond by talking the other person's ear off :).

BTW, the bartender PERSONALLY came to our table and brought Helen what was left in the blender after he made her MudSlide. He even gave her an extra maraschino cherry. Talk about charming!? Of course, everyone in this restaurant was already on the floor trying to please us after hearing TD's accent, but nevermind.

Anna, hope you can join us some time - it was a blast. Plus we got to see a lot of neat US historical stuff - and meet Helen's wonderful sister.

Love to both of you -
Katie

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Date: Thurs, Nov 30, 2000 at 03:43:47 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Hey Katie and Helen!
Message:
Don't worry, I WILL join you sometime, one way or another!

I forgot to mention it in my post to Helen, but it was really weird to discover that I began reading a book about Thomas Jefferson on the American election day - it was the other Erik Erikson book I picked up to read after the one about Ghandi. I thought of visiting some of the sites when I finally make it to Virginia!

Hugs,

Anna

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Date: Thurs, Nov 30, 2000 at 03:57:36 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: blame it ont he mudslide
Message:
TJ was quite the renaissance man, seriously I am a big fan of his. ANother president I want to learn more about is FDR, TD and I went to the FDR memorial in DC which is a beautifully designed place, with a lot of FDR quotes.

I was PMS-ing and getting quite sniffy (boo hoo), just thinking about what the country went through and how FDR pulled it through, and then seeing all these quotes about social justice and racial justice, and seeing people of FDR's generation walking around the memorial--very moving.

I think the mudslide has vodka and some kind of mocha liquor in it which accounts for the locquaciousness I am sure. Tami is not a distinct and separate personality, BTW, she is always with me, in all her oblivious glory! She is me, and I must grow to embrace her--maybe I'll write about it in my new book, 'embrace the dumb blonde within'--just kidding, of course.

If you ever make it to this part of the U.S. I would be glad to show you around. We DC-types need the excuse of an out of town visitor to do any sightseeing ourselves.

Helen

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Date: Thurs, Nov 30, 2000 at 04:11:55 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: LOL!!! Let's embrace our BRILLIANT blondness!!
Message:
I don't think I'll start experimenting with that concoction!

And I understand about Tami - my 'Zora' really seemed to throw a few people off, and a couple of other versions of that at AG. I've been amazed since high school at the way people want to box me. I'm still laughing about that moose costume, but that wasn't Tami, was it?

I don't think I ever mentioned it to you, but I was hoping to meet you too if I ever make it down that way. I thought maybe over the coming holidays, but then I got my first oil bill!

Take care, (which has taken on new significance since I read that Jefferson book!)

Anna

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 22:55:40 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: hey Helen remember
Message:
When I had to do that lit. class analyzing Fairy Tales? And we thought the traditional ones were whacked.
M should stick with the Emperer's New Clothes.

I declare the writings of Tami Rainbow and Pauline Premie and Elan Vital and red butler the new tales of the times. Not sure how that red butler fits in with the rest but [he] does catch one's eye.

Me I have writer's block. It's lasted longer than ever before. do you think EV would let me write for them in the meantime, just to warm up? hell most people could write that stuff half dead.

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Date: Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 04:01:05 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: So c'mon then, I'm sure we can find some Irish
Message:
So c'mon then, I'm sure we can find some Irish bubbling under the surface.

The newsletter subject matter is as follows:

The planet's fucked.
No argument.
Articles mostly on global warming, climate and flooding implications etc.

What response is possible?

Direct action (such as reclaim the streets/seattle), and/or, bypassing the system head fuck.
We know from the sixties you can't avoid it.

Articles on alt groups, such as the road wrecking crew,
strengths/weaknesses of the alt/green scene.
The house/dance crowd are finding the most interesting avoidance tactics, with bearable compromises, and high class invisibility.

SociAl issues/zeitgeist stuff.

DJ mix tape by one of my mates every issue.

The music policy will be black influenced house music.

Zen/minimalist interior design, architecture & ideas, clubby fashion, a hint of mildly erotic/and/or very honest, skin alive, porn.

Articles on relationships, by people involved in them, their take on certain key topics. One of my mates became a mother this year, her take on her experiences/learning, accompanying photos of her daughter and her changes physically over time.

Health and safety stuff, eg how to reduce problems over the monthlies by easing into a raw food diet for a few days, profound reduction in symptons, very few women seem to know about this stuff.

Articles on awareness, empowerment, altering states of consciousness and self awareness, changes thru chemikals, whether by bio-feedback or drug taking. The crucial nature of chemicals in our bodies and how when they alter, we alter. Drugs in our bodies, whether generated through 'external' drug taking, or 'natural' biological changes are a key component of experiencing life/self/blah de blah

Excerpts from Zen and the Art of Raving, a book I'm co-authoring at the moment, including quotes from a number of interviewees of the effects of, in most instances, ten years of altered lifestyle living within the house club scene, as well as other scenes affected by a similar vibe, while still within the mainstream. Some input from the traveller angle here. (WE have hippie/punk mutant travellers over here who are outside of the system more than most, but raid it regularly from different angles.)

All riddled with a democratic, anti-authoritarian stance.

Also open to other ideas too, it's gonna be 'community'(in it's widest sense) based, not just 'my' trip. Plenty of space for input.

Exactly how far I'll be tested on the democratic angle, and the degree of editorial control, is not fixed yet.
It would be great to be tested as to whether certain articles/photos, whaterver, fit into the 'Pulse '00' vision, so I'm up for leftfield takes and/or tokes.

Any thoughts come to mind?
Any ideas?
It would be great to have something from you in there.

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Date: Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 16:59:26 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: ham
Subject: Ham, where do I sign up... (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 04:13:22 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: ham
Subject: it's the damned French in me clouding the issue
Message:
whoa Hammy
Give me a little time OK? :) You are so cute. You mention this newsletter ONCE way back and now this. But I love it.
I'll think about my spin on the issues you mention and try not to be the boring middle class person I feel like at the momento.

ps, yup it's hard to block eye peas these days but they don't wanna talk about it here. You can email me if you want more info on that crap, ; and; if not
love you!

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Date: Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 04:37:19 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Yeah, shall
Message:
e-mail,

do you know about stuff like setting up credit payments on web sites?

got loads of questions about web site, but I need to hear it from someone I trust, you up on any of that?

also whether going down the java, or c++, or whatever, is the best route into programming based future web design stuff,
or going down the dreamweaver, flash, fireworks, ie ready made route route??

Might be interesting to have something by someone who feels like a boring middle class person, when inside their irish self knows they're not, even if they question whether that irish self is there.

And france has the most interesting football team in the world at the moment, and playing deep, intelligent, flowing
and VERY hard working,
some very interesting black based music(mostly paris), also filtered disco a la Daft Punk, loads of multi-racial music shit coming out of France now,

So what's your take on the french part of you, maybe we should move over to e-mail here.

Anyway gotta tell ya,
went out clubbing in london this weekend,
wicked time,
think I've finally found my scene,
music spot on (and you know how fussy I am),
crowd excellent
think it's gonna be massive in a year/eighteen months,

they're calling it 'ghetto tech'.

Loads of acid house synth lines, detroit technohood stuff, drum&bass&hip-hop, electro, dub bass lines,
mental stuff
but also really chilled, great vibe,
but also the good side of cool, mature attitudes, not too 'e'-ed up and short term lovey dovey and then forgotten you tomorrow vibe,

been waiting for four yeasrs for this stuff to turn up,
and it's fucking detroit again,
where it all started ith the original detroit techno of 85'ish
yeah yeah chicago disco house too I know but but

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Date: Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 04:45:29 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: ham
Subject: well well life breathes here
Message:
OK :) but can I have some of that?

I do know some about setting up eCommerce and all.
Not a lot but some.

Java is my favorite, I have been going nuts trying to learn it all, all the new tools blah blah and decided to go back to server side programming, hench Java.

Dreamweaver and Flash are all the rage at work but funny thing no one is getting anything done with any of it except teaching it to others :)
The work is being done with PERL and Java. So that is where I am.
I wrote a few programs but they do boring things like manage data. I guess it all depends on your spin. I know you like Macs so you might want to go the Flash / etc. route instead.

I saved your info about the newsletter. I could have fun with it.
Thanks.

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Date: Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 05:09:05 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Nice one Selene
Message:
I'll DEFINITELY be e-mailing you soon,

wasn't that sure of your angle on the techie stuff,

and as for the newsletter, I KNOW you've got something good to offer it?

Could maybe go down the Bridget Jones rambling thoughts route?
Don't want it getting to right on, and too zen serious up-it's own arse, you'd balance the mr seriousness of it all, that's why I putting some sex based stuff in,
talking of which there's supposed to be a new vibrator that REALLY pulses,
maybe we should all chip in and get one for marilyn,
can't imagine she gets hardly any SATISFACTION from, although if you're reading, EV's laughter lawyers, I could be wrong, in which case I will humbly apologize!!

there were a lot of really dodgy 80's record samples in those ghetto tech records the other night, you couldn't help laughing!!, some of that ska nuttiness!
yeah!!
yeah the bridget jones idea is a good one too

also thinking about 'kit of the month'
exposed bodies from the readers, but no faces!

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Date: Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 02:54:17 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: hey Helen remember
Message:
I was thinking the same thing, that the writing in that newsletter read like it was written by zombies.

'That peace, that love, go there now, it's just such a great feeling, and you know, we really have that choice, to be in that beautiful gratitude, allied with a washed up has-been guru totally out of touch with reality and cut off from all relationships, support systems, and even our sanity. The choice is clear, to be in the clan, and be totally completely nuts or to be part of the world, where one has to sort through bullshit like this. Premies, you be the judge.'

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Date: Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 04:25:42 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: my husband is watching PBS right now
Message:
I've been on the computer. He came in to tell me he is watching
some PBS show on Hitler and his search for the holy grail.
He came in and said 'they were a cult'
He never reads this forum. Someone said as soon as Hitler is mentioned a thread ends. oh well.
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Date: Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 00:05:43 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: my husband is watching PBS right now
Message:
Hi Selene
My husband watched that too. He was telling me about their weird beliefs, how they (the nazis) thought they were descended from the people of the lost city of Atlantis, how they thought we used to have 5 moons, and other weird stuff and I said 'they sound like a cult.'

Those nazis had some really sick beliefs. I also watched the segment of 20/20 Downtown about the hari krishna children--they were sick too. Lots of rape and sexual abuse--really horrific stuff. They (the adult children who lived in the krishna boarding schools) are suing.

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Date: Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 04:09:48 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: And such an individual experience,
Message:
that they end up sounding like gm's version of the Stepford Wives.

All together now,
'we are programmed not.'

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Date: Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 00:10:17 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: ham
Subject: And such an individual experience,
Message:
Stepford Wives is exactly what they are

So good to see you here Hammie

Don't even have time for punctuation--gotta go

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 23:02:43 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: ps
Subject: ps I was praising our elan vital not theirs
Message:
haha. Once I looked up elan vital but haven't for a while.
But when I did the search engine returned all kinds of stuff, names for products and businesses. What does it mean? Energetic life, something like that.
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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 23:05:45 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Elan Vital: The Vital Force or Impulse of Life nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 23:02:23 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Writers Block
Message:
Hi Selene,

I know you could easily write for EV, but they'd probably have an issue with you being an ex.:))

My experience with writer's block is that it comes and goes and I just try to keep my personal journal going, and eventually the juices get flowing again. It's very frustrating though, so I know what you're going through.

And...you're far from ''half dead,'' unlike goomraji!!

Warm thoughts to you,
Cynthia

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 23:05:21 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: yeah journaling is really good
Message:
Lately mine is just filled with movie quotes and song lyrics. Maudlin someone called it once. hmmpph. But you are right it does help in the long run.

gee do you think they know I'm an ex?

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Date: Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 00:08:56 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: yeah journaling is really good
Message:
Hey if you think you're maudlin you should have seen me tearing up (sniff sniff) at Thomas Jefferson's home and the FDR memorial this weekend when I was showing TD around the area. Felt like a damn patriotic flag waver. PMS will do some strange things to a gal!
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Date: Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 04:43:38 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: No teasing babes
Message:
What movie quotes & song lyrics??
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Date: Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 05:01:48 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: ham
Subject: from my last entry (uck someone will call it
Message:
maudlin):
This is from my writing not quotes or lyrics:

Early October from western Mass: 'The funeral. and Back to the hotel. I've lost my address/phone number book somewhere in this room and can't look for it.
It's best that I have no one to call. The memories are like a hit to the gut. I could never live here again. I'd always be searching the faces trying to find something I left behind that was never there.'

well that's it. lyrics? quotes?
I went on a binge writing quotes and stuff from Girl, Interrupted but I doubt anyone here wants to hear it.

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Date: Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 05:17:52 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Fuck em if they can't deal with the shadow side
Message:
I reckon

'I'd always be searching the faces trying to find something I left behind that was never there.'

is a great line,

can I drop that in the newsletter,

and doesn't it describe leaving a cult too!

standalone quotes like that, phucked up in photoshop & quark, are going in there
there's a lot of mag design and ad's using that technique over here now, quotes with multiple meanings,

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Date: Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 23:05:18 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: ham and Selene
Subject: and doesn't it describe ...
Message:
I really liked that line too, Selene - and it's NOT maudlin! Doesn't it describe moving on from just about any context we've outworn? I might be wrong, but I often feel like some of the post-cult syndrome is part of the general pain of losing our delusions about things and people - you know, part of the middle-aged crisis and all.

My Tiddley Winks chips worth.

Anna

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Date: Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 01:36:56 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: Sounds spot on to me
Message:
could be argued it's one of the major defects of being affected by a cult is that so many different events/experiences/changes you attributed to god, him, whoever, it's almost like you have to rebuild your personality.

But what an opportunity to re-invent yourself as though from scratch, since that is what it can feel like

ham
whose favourite dj of the moment is definitely inspector scratch
& watchout for the sound of ghetto-tec

You ok?

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Date: Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 02:11:01 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: ham
Subject: Wow! Are you on a posting roll or what!!??
Message:
Hi ham,

Yes, couldn't agree more: major defects of being affected by a cult is that so many different events/experiences/changes you attributed to god, him, whoever, it's almost like you have to rebuild your personality.

Even if the 'Whatever-It-Is' I've had 'faith' in is only myself, I didn't build on a bogus bozo who had the unbelievable gall to call himself 'God' etc.! (And without it I don't know where I'd be right now!) As I've said to Steve Q, m's a mind-heart-soul fucker! But I still think it's compounded by the general disillusionment that seems to accompany growing older and wiser! ;-)

You mentioned some ska somewhere - that brings back memories of 'Mirror in the Bathroom' and 'One Step Beyond' - music that makes you feel like a geezer (is that a male only term?) even in your twenties when you're trying to dance to it!

Yes, I'm slowlly doing better and better. The roses are mounded, the leek bulbs transplanted, and the artichoke will be fully (I hope) protected once the bale of hay in my kitchen has dried out and I put it on top of the other three already snugly fitted around. If it doesn't survive this winter I will TOTALLY give up on growing artichokes in Montreal!!

I'm beginning to move on to a major interior clean-up and a bit of re-organization of space etc. I WILL recover and get back on top of things and I'm even starting to get optimistic about it again!

Great to read you, as always (I poked into AG a bit too). Will email ASAP!

Anna

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Date: Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 00:41:43 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: thank you.
Message:
Yes it does describe so many things. And all that against the most gorgeous fall/ leaves turning 70 degree weather. I won't forget the fall of 2000.
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Date: Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 05:20:56 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: ham
Subject: sure you can use it, thanks
Message:
And yes it does describe a cult to the T. And a small massachusetes town of 9000 isn't too far off from a cult really.

I'm going to log off now .. I was sad after my last post but you cheered me up. Thanks so much.
Love you.

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Date: Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 05:32:05 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: ain't the net a wonderful thing,
Message:
REAL democracy,
unlike the ev/gm, politico, spin-sters,
it breathes skin alive rawness
instead of laughable bollocks
like that ev promo of 'it's about people'

if it is, it took him long enough to realize,

yet the numbers keep dropping,
what a puzzle,

in this age of 'lets expose the shadows to daylight, and grant them their place in the sun too'

good chattin' too ya

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 23:09:53 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: You got me on that one, it would be worth a try
Message:
and would be very, very funny. You could be our new mole!!!
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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 21:11:44 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Giant Sai Baba expose
Message:
'India Today' is India's leading magazine. The cover story this weekend was a 10 page story on Sai Baba, by far the most comprehensive story ever done in the mainstream Indian press. It exposes the corrupt practices and the sexual molestations of Sai Baba. Initial reports from India indicate that the article is the talk of the nation. Most distributors of the magazine have asked for extra stock, and the issue is expected to break all circulation records since the assasination of the prime minister, Rajiv Gandhi.

The magazine is available on-line at india-today.com. The cover story on Sai Baba will be available on-line on Tuesday, Nov. 28.

'The word is out, it is the beginning of the end for the most evil and unscrupulous fraud of the century, Sathya Sai Baba of Puttaparthi.'

(This information is from the Sai Baba discussion Forum).

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Date: Mon, Dec 04, 2000 at 18:30:25 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Giant Sai Baba expose
Message:
Thanks Way,
Will you let us know when it hits the internet?
Maybe put a link?
I have gone to thier sites periodically, the Ex's sites that is.
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Date: Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 15:52:02 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: update on the India Today article
Message:
'India Today' is a weekly. The Sai Baba article is in the Dec. 4th issue, which should be available on-line soon. (The magazine is released before the actual date of the issue).
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Date: Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 04:34:03 (GMT)
From: C.G.
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Swami Rama guilty of sexual abuse
Message:
They're all at it! Power corrupts. Young female devote won $$$$ in law suit.

C.G.

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 22:20:57 (GMT)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Giant Sai Baba expose
Message:
One of the factors that finally tipped the balance for me, was an article which appeared in the Daily Telegraph magazine Sat 28th Oct, exposing Sai Baba. You can read it online at www.telegraph.co.uk. or on other sites like. Sathya Sai Baba exposed:Cult, Magic And Brainwashing.
It turns out he has been systematically sexually abusing boys and young men for years and years. All under the guise of giving them special private interviews. Something that most of his devotees would give their eye teeth for.
Its a very well written and well balanced article, but what sent a chill down my spine were the parallels. I was still a premie (though wavering a little) at the time and although I was relieved that my master was not a sexual abuser, (I believe this may be debatable)what really struck me was how his followers responded to these shocking revelations.
Some are in complete denial 'This could not possibly happen' Some say that he is completely above these things and cannot be judged by the same standards. Sound familiar? Some say its some sort of a test, and others believe the allegations but cannot reconcile them with the other wonderful experiences they have had. Others have immediately turned their backs on him.
I have a good friend who was a follower and I watched her go through a period of intense shock, anger and grief. It was only a few more days untill I found myself in the same boat.!! It really makes me wonder. Are there any good true teachers out there.?
For myself I am inclined to think NO MORE GURUS. From now on I will rely on myself, on my inner teacher, the voice within, but hopefully I can learn from everyone.
I had a feeling after reading the Telegraph article that the shit was about to hit the fan. That pervert really should be prosecuted.What an outrageous abuse of power. I think it may be time for all these 'Frauds of the Universe' to be exposed. I hope so.
Kelly
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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 22:52:12 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Kelly
Subject: Giant Sai Baba expose
Message:
'Guru' and 'fraud' are synonymous.

Kelly, we discussed that British article on this Forum within the last two weeks, and many of us also noted the striking similarities that you mention. In this country, (the US), Sai Baba would now be prosecuted criminally, and then (since his organization is worth literally billions of dollars), a class action civil suit would be brought by the male victims. (There was a very successful civil suit against Swami Kriyananda in California a couple years ago).

Let us hope that India does the right thing as the entire world watches. They will be confronting centuries of tradition, so it will be painful. Sai Baba is definitely the top banana of today's gurus, so let us also hope that all the other smaller guru guys (and gals) get what's coming to them as well!

p.s. speaking of guys and gals, which are you?

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Date: Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 16:04:13 (GMT)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: guys or gals?
Message:
'p.s. speaking of guys and gals, which are you?'

Nah...I'm not telling, not yet anyway. I'm rather enjoying this androgynous existence. I don't know what most of you are yet either and I'm finding it quite interesting not knowing, and just talking to another human being. Mind you that's just an assumption as well!

Which are you? You don't need to tell me but I'm guessing you're a guy and I'm fairly sure you're human.

Pure platonic love
Kelly

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Date: Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 17:53:51 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Kelly
Subject: yeah, but...
Message:
...what's my orientation!?

The trouble is, Kelly, that I have to have a mental image of everyone who posts here. My mind abhors the visual vacuum. And guess what! - I'm almost always fairly close. Once, the European exes got together at a pub and posted their pictures here. I had to adjust my mental image of AJW, but I already had cq and JB and JM down pretty well. I've looked at Bazza's website, so that's an easy one.

Since you are being secretive, I'm not going to tell you what you look like in my mind, but I will say that you are semi-good-looking. I noticed that Bim aka Bjorn (a male) assumed you were male, but I think he's wrong. Of course, I've been wrong myself, about G.

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Date: Fri, Dec 01, 2000 at 21:28:10 (GMT)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Your journey...
Message:
Way, I read your journey and loved it. I have been reading my way through The Journeys, I find them really helpful and inspiring. (Thank you all ) So I jumped to yours at the end. You must have thought I'd already read it, when I signed off with 'pure platonic love' Goes to show we must be in tune!

In fact there are many parallels in our lives. ..and one of the things I particularly related to was when you came back in the nineties ..me too..and the organisation had gone ..It was all clear and simple. Just the master, the message and me. And all through the simple medium of videos. But ..I could never find a video that I would dare to show a friend..I used to look through them for hours ..trying to find one that did'n't contain something totally grating. You'd think that would have told me something!

Anyway..I really liked your evaluations at the end of your 'journey' Great stuff.

More pure platonic love
Kelly

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Date: Thurs, Nov 30, 2000 at 04:01:31 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: yeah, but...
Message:
I remember that, Way, and a LOT of people were wrong about me!

And I rather enjoyed the androgynous life too, Kelly ... something quite fun about being referred to as 'Old chap'! And I found that the quality of discussion was generally better when the men thought I was a man too! I could never understand the anger of some when I decided to tell them I was actually a woman. Why can't men and women talk as fellow human beings? (I know, I know, hamzen!) Anyways, it's a MUCH improved atmosphere around here these days, and it's great to read posts from so many new people!

I'll be looking forward to reading your journal, Kelly!

Anna

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Date: Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 23:24:05 (GMT)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Ahah! gul or gay..?.
Message:
I will say that you are semi-right! Have patience, all will be revealed. I'll write my journey one of these days. Right now I'm off to read yours.
Love Kelly
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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 23:24:30 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Way
Subject: Giant Sai Baba expose
Message:
I think what many westerners don't yet appreciate is the sheer scale of the Sai Baba scandal in India. When he boasts of having fifteen million followers worldwide, he is probably not exaggerating. Baba is the biggest living 'spiritual' figure they've got with a status not unlike the Pope or Archbishop of Canterbury. He definitiely mainstream rather than minor cult figure, and the knock-on effects could be devastating. (The BBC radio documentary I heard said Baba has high placed followers in government posts and legal positions - which might have some bearing on the time it has taken for the truth to be made public.)

Even without the sexual allegations I'd have him prosecuted long ago for passing off conjuring tricks as 'manifestations' - same as I would Uri Geller and his ilk. Obtaining money by deception, no more and no less.

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 23:59:48 (GMT)
From: jondon
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Sai Baba is huge...
Message:
Have done some research lately on Sai Baba. His cult is soooo huge that it makes Mahahaha's operation seem like small potatoes in comparison. And if a half assed, small potatoe operation like M's can make him the kind of money to live the kind of life he does (aboard his 106 foot yacht and Gulfstream V Jet) think of the kind of money Sai Baba must have been stealing from his devotee's.
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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 23:40:04 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Giant Sai Baba expose...
Message:
Hi Nigel,

It sounds like Sai Baba has/had the same political in-roads as Jim Jones did in San Francisco.

I'm watching that 20/20 tonight because I'm very curious. And I am also very curious about goomraji's sexual practices, i.e., young women in his cult. He does have a position of power, after all. (even though we know he doesn't really have it)

Btw, your post above nearly made me piss my pants; that music on the site, is so booooooorrrring.....

Love,
Cynthia

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 20:59:29 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Tonight's 20/20
Message:
ABC's 20/20 Downtown will air a program tonight on the children of Hari Krishna devotees.
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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 22:50:48 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Thanks for the reminder, Way....nt
Message:
bt
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Date: Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 06:27:02 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: just saw it
Message:
And I am shaking. How awful. Those poor kids spent childhoods of utter torture, all because their parents were in a cult.

The ending was poignant, in that these children were told their abuse was their karma. Now their abusers are going to get their karma.

Horrible, horrible.

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Date: Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 16:53:04 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: jmkahn@club-internet.fr
To: Susan
Subject: Hey Susan ? Would you email me
Message:
I want to ask you something, but don't have your email !
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Date: Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 15:32:43 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: 150 million dollars
Message:
The lawsuit by the children against the Krishna Consciousness organization is for a total of $150,000.000. The Krishna spokesman noted that a win for the claimants would obliterate the movement in the West. It's payback time!
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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 19:07:24 (GMT)
From: M's Manicurist
Email: None
To: Me (l)?
Subject: Is there someone called 'Me' out there?
Message:
Dear Me,

I just went into the archives and read a response to my post that really touched me. About how you lost both of your parents quite recently and how you connected with what I said in my post. Sorry I missed your reply around beginning of November I think or maybe even earlier.

Just wanted to let you know I have read it and you seem to be in a similar state of limbo as I. This whole forum is rather a limbo land if you ask me. I have no answers really. I have been around about two years and still haven't been able to figure out what happened in or out of K & M. I have been around for thirty years in this and wish i could go on practicing K and pretend things like Jagdeo, Monika Lewis, Mike Dettmers, Fakiranand, drinking, smoking, spending premies money and squashing them didn't really exist. But we ethically minded ones just can't can we. I also always hated the heirachy very much. I like the Indian vegetarian food though and India too!

I hope I can be of a bit more help in the future. Perhaps we should take up a career that we really love! Yeah that's my solution for today and perhaps that is THE amswer.

Best regards,

M's Manicurist

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 19:16:58 (GMT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: M's Manicurist
Subject: Are you/were you really M's Manicurist? (nt)
Message:
(nt)
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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 19:26:48 (GMT)
From: C.G.
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Are you/were you really M's Manicurist? (nt)
Message:
Dear Gail,

No I was only one of the more devoted backstage crew and could only dream of being M's manicurist. This sound like Pauline Premie... I really miss her... Where is she I need a laugh!

Bye,

C.G.

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Date: Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 16:04:38 (GMT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: C.G.
Subject: You got me, CG! (NT)
Message:
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHHHHHAAAAAAA!
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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 17:16:13 (GMT)
From: Curious George
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Come on someone help me out here
Message:
I'm starting to think this song & dance routine was a bad dream. No one has even mentioned it on E.V. or Enjoying Lieife. I think it was an embarrassment even for them. It took place at the Hans Jyanti Festival this month.

I'd really like to know what the words were that he made the audience repeat after him over and over and over again whilst smiling in a reeeally embarrassed way. I know it ended in O.

Hindi translation anyone?

C.G.

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Date: Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 04:54:11 (GMT)
From: Curious George
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Can't believe this mystery is still unsolved
Message:
Anyone seen a report of this years Hans Jyanti anywhere?

You've gotta see this if you want a really good laugh!

Please tell me it wasn't a nightmare.

C.G.

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 20:14:38 (GMT)
From: Lotus Eater
Email: None
To: Curious George
Subject: Come on someone help me out here
Message:
The singing duet on the last Hans Jayanti of the milennium:
Night and day, with you I'll stay
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Date: Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 04:42:26 (GMT)
From: C.G.
Email: None
To: Lotus Eater
Subject: Sorry, wrong....
Message:
Dear Lotus Sniffer,

Sorry I mean eater! We're talking this year, Hans Jyanti broadcast around the world M & Dy looking really silly. I was embarrassed just looking at it. Something like Dildo oh Dildo oh!

Yea something very close to that. Just mesmerizing.

At least I have to admit Dy can sing and M keep making excuses like I'm not the singer of the family although his brainwashed premies will continue to see those lovely silks and velvets and go ooh ahh every time M writes a bad poem, sings a bad song or does one of those God awful dances of his.

C.G.

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 18:46:33 (GMT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Curious George
Subject: Was it Arti??????????????
Message:
You are my mother,
And you are my father.
Oh Oh
You are my brother, and
You are my friend.
You are riches;
You are wisdom.
You are my all,
My Lord to me.

Whereever I look,
Your face is before me.
Your golden love melts
All my troubles away.
I give you my heart,
For in you it will mellow.
Maharaji my lord,
My life is your play.

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 19:54:46 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Gail
Subject: Once We're In The Swing Of Things
Message:
Jai Guru Dev Maharaji
Your Glory Fills The World
Abuser Of The Mentally Ill
Your Lackeys Like To Touch Children
Feed Them Bare Pasta In Rome
Live In A Million Dollar Home
Do You Like This Poem?
Jai Dread, Jai Satguru Dread
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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 18:56:19 (GMT)
From: C.G.
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Was it Arti??????????????
Message:
NO! It ended in O not I, silly!

C.G.

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 20:10:08 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: C.G.
Subject: Hi C.G., I have a tape of Charanand's 70s hits...
Message:
which he sang in both English and Hindi, but I can't bring myself to listen to them right now and they're buried in a box and I'm too lazy to look today.

I may have the lyrics in written form, too, I'll get back to you, but there are a lot of Hindi devotional songs so ya never know what they were singing.

I don't think it would be arti, because he always sat on a throne when arti was sung to him, if memory serves.

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Date: Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 01:08:20 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: MarianneDB@aol.com
To: Cynthia
Subject: Your box of stuff
Message:
Cynthia: Could you email me about your box of cult artifacts? I would like to know what you have.

Marianne

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Date: Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 01:51:52 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Marianne
Message:
I'll try to do it sometime this week.

Cynthia

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 23:46:26 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: C.G. and Lotus Eater
Subject: Okay, Okay, I'll look in my box tomorrow....
Message:
and see if I can come up with that song. My speculation is that it was a song which is familiar to western premies (how they love to gush freely hindu style,, so I probably have it.

Okay, everybody in unison, arms out, swinging and clicking your fingers, in the Charanand style.....tomorrow...I promise.

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Date: Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 04:47:44 (GMT)
From: C.G.
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Okay, Okay, I'll look in my box tomorrow....
Message:
Dear Cynthia,

I really appreciate the effort and actually I must admit I quite like Char's old songs and know some of them quite well as well as the old Hindi/English bhajans and I've never come across this one. Something like Dildo Oh, dildo Oh.

I'm going to end up thinking I had a nightmare if someone doesn't help me out quick. I'm sure there are lots of premies out there browsing that could help with this one.

C.G.

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 02:13:29 (GMT)
From: Curious George
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Adulation Addiction
Message:
When someone has an addiction to adulation it's pretty obvious that when someone else is getting attention instead of Hiiiim He gets very, very miffed indeed!

C.G.

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 19:05:00 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Curious George
Subject: Hi CG -- narcissistic personality
Message:
Adulation addiction. Money. Self-Identity. Greed. Megalomania. Narcissistic Personality. Self-Absorption.

I haven't been around much lately, but I agree that part of what Maharaji is about is an addiction to being worshipped. I think it's a big motivation for him -- perhaps a bit like a drug. This is the only reason, other than an opportunity to make money, for him giving darshan a couple of times in Australia in the late 90s. He did it to reinforce, in himself, that he really is worthy of worship. Otherwise, it makes no sense, because it completely undermines his ability to do propogation in the West. Note also, that despite the fact that darshan has been discussed repeatedly on this website, EV has made no attempt to even explain darshan, nor to deny that Maharaji is STILL doing it, despite EV implying that all those 'Hindu' practices were long ago abandoned. They simply can't defend Maharaji's followers lining up and kissing his feet, can they? Elan Vital's silence is deafening.

I have also always thought that Maharaji's obsessive need for bigger and better material possessions was also coming form a place of wanting to quell the inner-voice that tells him he is just a plain old human and quite an imposter. Many people compulsively shop for psychological reasons, but don't have the means that Maharaji does. I think the reason Maharaji spends so much of his time acquiring all the best the world has to offer, like $7 million yachts and a residence that looks like a theme park. It's also kind of a drug for him.

Maharaji's documented abuse of alcohol? Well, that's obvious -- also a form of self-medication, most likely.

Another symptom of a narcissitic personality that Maharaji also exhibits is an inability to accept personal criticism, to take responsibility for failures, and a tendency to blame others when things go wrong. This is typical of this type of disorder, but Maharaji is one of a small group of people who has people willing, for the most part, to absolve him from his own failings and to always take the blame. Accordingly, he gets no objective feedback from those around him, and if he does, he just rejects those people. With no objective feedback, I would think Maharaji would become more and more out of touch with himself and reality, living instead in a world in which he is above, better than, and excempt from, the responsiblities of normal human beings.

I wonder how Maharaji rationalizes his abysmal failure to 'spread knowledge' in the West? I mean, his followers are a dwindling few thousand in North America, and he has a demonstrated inability to bring in new converts, all the while losing more of those he has. Has anyone heard who or what Maharaji is blaming this failure on? Or is he now changing his tune and saying being a premie is to be a member of an exclusive club, like he was quoted as saying in Virginia in June? Any ideas on this?

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Date: Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 03:16:32 (GMT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Hey Joe, what an odd person he is.
Message:
Accordingly, he gets no objective feedback from those around him, and if he does, he just rejects those people. With no objective feedback, I would think Maharaji would become more and more out of touch with himself and reality, living instead in a world in which he is above, better than, and excempt from, the responsiblities of normal human beings.

Which is why he gets into all his toys I reckon, the archetypal male, with a MASSIVE ego and a control freak mentality BECAUSE he's never been spoken to as an equal, ever, in his life, apart from his plane flying, and by the sounds of it, he doesn't exactly hang out with them socially.

Everyone around him is terrified of getting it wrong, so no surprize his view of people is riddled with contempt.
I could always deal with his sub-zenisms, but as soon as the ego thing, taking the piss out of everything else, came out in his speeches I found it a right turn-off. Some of his analysis of the way people thought and felt was so obviously wrong, like a simpleton. On some level I do think he is a simpleton. He has no social skills, acts like an overgrown schoolboy.

Dettmers description of him storming out of the restaurant because he thought durga ji, whoops, marilyn, was flirting was hilarious, SOOOO adolescent.
Also remember thos comments by that woman who did spend a night with him, I keep thinking of someony shy with a massive ego, in a world of his own , cut off from people.
What must it do to you to be on the end of all that adoration and devotion when you are on stage.
The fact that the numbers are dropping to dangerous levels must be terrifying him.
There's also the factor that he's been traspped in this psycho black hole for so long he's become Howard Hughes'ish in his thing about hygiene.
When this new bogus democratic cult trip, with executive training and a happy clapper mentality doesn't work, I suspect he could start blowing it.
THe fundraising trips through the satellite number, visions catalogue, auto-knowledge, newsletter, strike me as desperate.
To go down that route your market research should have prepared you for results, yet he freaks.
Hard to believe he uses market research, I reckon most of the changes are on a whim. When you add that in with the fact he obviously isn't very bright, ands certainly not very good on psychology except for guilt, and kids cartoon cinderella stuff, protected by god's bubble,....well nuff said I think

A man in denial of his humanity, in denial that he is a member of the human race, is a dangerous man.

Still as EV tries to spin the whole thing as a democratic thing, while operating within the worst kind of only half hidden authoritarianism, the laughs are guranteed to get bigger & bigger, as the lies get bolder and bolder.

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 20:02:08 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Hi Joe -- narcissistic personality
Message:
Hi Joe,

How are you?

What you said about narcissism is right on the money (so to speak:))

Also, the bit about not seeing fault in themselves and blaming others for their failures is true.

An interesting thing I learned a few years ago during a general discussion with a psychotherapist is that someone who steals from others, whether it be shoplifting or stealing on a grander scale, indicates that the person is searching for love or is seeking love in the ''things'' stolen. Trying to fill the hole inside. Ironic, isn't it?

I find this interesting in M's case because he has stolen so much from his premies, he desires adulation, yet, as we have learned from Michael Dettmers, lives quite an unhappy private life.

It's amazing how everything about M and the cult becomes clearer and clearer once one is able to step back and actually see him for what he is.

Be well,
Cynthia

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 23:56:18 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Hi Cynthia -- the election got me down
Message:
I'm doing fine, but I have been a bit flummoxed by the election results. It has been amazing. True, the affair has had its educational component. Will any voter ever again blithely cast a vote and not wonder whether the system truly records his or her choices? Can anyone still believe that electoral reform is not urgently needed or that a system so dominated by two parties can resolve internal conflicts on the basis of principles rather than politics?

Most importantly, Chadgate brought out the real George W. Bush. Forget his promise to be a healer. Forgot all those warm-and-fuzzy photos of a kindly Bush with children-of-color. Forget the spin that he's a comfortable-within-his-skin fella who could take or leave the presidency. Here was a bitter, combative, paranoid, self-righteous, do-anything/say-anything pol. In one brief statement, he accused the Florida Supreme Court of not merely erring but of actively plotting to steal an election from the rightful winner (himself); he misstated the basic functions of government ('The legislature's job is to write law. It's the executive branch job to interpret law.'); and he misled the public about Dick Cheney's medical condition, announcing his running mate had checked into the hospital as a precautionary measure when actually Cheney had suffered a mild heart attack. (Bush 'is not a doctor,' one of his spokesmen said, as a way of explaining Bush's inaccurate remark.)

But, that's OT, I know. No, really, I'm fine, and I hope you are too. I think Maharaji may go down in history as the mega-narcissistic personality of this generation.

I have to wonder how the mega-narcissist himself reacts to the comments made here. I wonder if he reads the criticism and who he blames for it (other than us that is)?

Do you think he flies off the handle at his lawyers who tell him there is no legal way to shut down this site? Do you think he perhaps screams at Marolyn occassionally, bemoaning the unfair treatement he is getting from us ungrateful ex-premies? Do you think he has pictures of us on his den wall and throws darts at them? Do you think his acquisition of the $7 million yacht was partly to take his mind off the fact that his 'mission' is the west is going down the toilet? The possibilities are endless.

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Date: Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 02:07:26 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Hi Joe
Message:
Hi Joe,

Not only is Bush not a doctor, he's not a lawyer either, as far as I know. When he came out last night and claimed victory I was absolutely amazed. I don't want a C student/loser to be our president. It's such a mess.

I hope Maharaji reads this site. Sometimes I think he does, then sometimes I think he couldn't take it. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if we all are being investigated; paranoia is a symptom of narcissism and he can't control us. That part is good.

Yes, I think he throws tantrums as he always did, but especially now that the US is down the tubes. But Marolyn has been with him for a very long time, so if he's abusive to her, he's being abusive to his kids and she should have the courage to leave him.

She's a real mystery to me. Living with an alcoholic all these years, four kids. Geeze, I guess she likes the money, too. I don't know anything about their financial set up, but isn't California a 50/50 state when it comes to divorce? Marolyn really puzzles me. Does she really believe he is the lord? How can she stand him?

When you mentioned above seeing him up close in Miami, I had the same reaction as you. His skin was pimply, bloodshot eyes, and I never got anything from him but demands, and also witnessed his cruelty toward premies. But I couldn't listen that that critical mind of mine back then. What a basket case he is.

Be well, Joe, maybe the election will be over by New Years!

Cynthia

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 19:24:19 (GMT)
From: C.G.
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Exclusive Club!
Message:
Dear Joe,

Thank you for taking the time to reply so thoughtfully to my post. I remember up till recently premies were told not to talk to each other after local video events because M didn't want it to be like a social club or something. this was always agaist my grain and just didn't seem at all right.

Off course I'm sure behind my back I was accused of someone being in the lonely hearts club band of bongos! When really it just REALLY ticked me off that someone (even m!) could dictate, inhibit and manipulate our communication and conduct.

What a justifier he is! Elite private club no less - The PAMS will really fall for that one!

Bye for now, By the way Katie and Marianne told me what a nice guy you are. What are you working at these days? I hear that you were pretty much a PAM in the old days. Or were you one of the more devoted backstage crew like me. (only with hopes of being M's manicurist!)

C.G.

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 23:46:25 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: C.G.
Subject: No, I was never a PAM...
Message:
Thanks, CG. It's also very nice of Katie and Marianne to say I'm a nice guy. But sometimes I wonder.

I was never a PAM. I spent very little time around Maharaji, and around 1979- 1980 in Miami, I discovered that when I WAS around Maharaji I really found him quite repulsive. On a couple of occasions I saw him berate and belittle people who were very vulnerable to him, and trying to serve him. On another occasion I heard him say some particularly ignorant comments about the hostage situation in Iran. Even I could tell he was amazingly superficial and uninformed. Plus, he looked so fat and greasy. That really confronted me, and I, of course, blamed myself for not being devoted enough to see what a truly perfect and beautiful he was. I kind of made a mental committment to avoid being around him if I could help it. Very unlike most of the other people I was around at that time.

The farthest I ever got in Elan Vital, was as a commuity coordinator, ashram housefather, and on the staff of IHQ for awhile. I never had backstage 'service' and I never sat up close at programs. Most of the time I was just a working, ashram-slug, off in the provinces.

Actually, the closest I ever sat at a program was in 1990 in San Francisco, at which I sat in the fourth row, and I got up and walked out in the middle of Maharaji's offensive drivel. I hadn't seen M for about 7 years before that, so it was just confirmation that it was, indeed, over.

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 02:41:56 (GMT)
From: C.G.
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Talking of Adulation did any of you 90,000
Message:
Did any of you 90000 in India watching m pathetically dancing and really badly singing see Jagdeo when you were there?

C.G.

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 02:58:02 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: C.G.
Subject: Funny you should mention his baad dancing...
Message:
When I was in the cult in that state of adulation, something inside of me always knew he was a crappy dancer, but, of course, I couldn't admit it to myself then.

Seems really funny now. The dancing and singing guru! But, as we all know, goomraji has no shame. Singing guru, lololol

Cynthia

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Date: Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 04:06:52 (GMT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: And absolutely no sense of body rhythm,
Message:
he dances like someone dissociated from his body, like an alien beamed into a kids body.

Can you imagine him on the dancefloor, to hip-hop, garage, r&b, drum&bass, any black influenced bass-led dance music, where you just have to use your booty.
Perish the thought, too hilarious,
or as a John Travolta type!!!

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 11:31:17 (GMT)
From: JTF
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Funny you should mention his baad dancing...
Message:
I always sensed that HIS dancing was horrible too, was constantly fighting Mr. Mind commenting on it. It was especially tough when I saw fellow cult members imitating HIM in the crowd.

I recently saw a Seinfeld episode where Elaine danced at a party in a very bizarre way and was reminded of rawat's dancing. I guess with HIM the term 'hoofing it' is applicable.

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 15:26:21 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: JTF
Subject: I think I can solve this mystery...
Message:
JTF,et al:

I have to admit (and Mike A. will bear this out since he was a witness) that in all probability Maharaji has been imitating me. On a dare from Rita and Mike, during a period when we were living in a tent in the field across from the Pacific Palisades residence, I used to do a Krishna dance in the street for 'his' aesthetic edification. Rita played the part of Radha, while Mike cowered behind a wall. Then Rita and I would change parts for awhile, since she played a pretty mean flute. From your description, however, it is more likely that Maharaji is imitating me than Rita, since Rita was actually pretty damn good at it. I wonder if there are grounds for a lawsuit?

--Scott

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 03:33:49 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Funny you should mention his baad dancing...
Message:
Does anyone remember Barry White. He always throws water on himself before getting on stage. He had a concert last week in Sydney. during the performance, few thousand people walked out demanding their money back.

At least the organisers had the decency to refund the money back.

Rawat you egg sucking trash, give me my money back.

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 01:28:36 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Myths and Lies By Cultists Danny and Bimbo
Message:
Everyone,

Warning: Sensitive and Graphic Material Regarding Child Sexual Abuse

I have read just about enough ignorance re: the issues being discussed regarding Jagdeo, Maharaji, Randy Prouty, Judy Osborne.

I won't be quoting any of the absolutely stupid and uneducated remarks made below by Danny and Bimbo. As far as I am concerned, they have no credibility to even discuss the issues of child sexual abuse. I do. I am not a professional, but I am well educated in this area and know many professionals who work in child abuse prevention and treatment.

There is nothing more degrading to a survivor/victim of child sexual abuse than for discussions to take place about whether or not they were abused, to minimize whether or not it was genital rape, digital rape or fondling. I know a lot of folks don't like to hear the word child abuse, but unfortunately, too many children are sexually abused to ignore this issue without discussing it with educated minds.

I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that Susan and Abi told the truth about Jagdeo's heinous behavior. There is no reason in the world for a child or teenager to make something like that up. Susan TOLD. That is what children in the year 2000 are taught to do.

I believe that Susan first told Randy Prouty and he told Maharaji. I believe that Judy Osborne also reported it and Maharaji did nothing but send Jagdeo out of the country. Now Kelly has arrived at this forum and tells us that this sex offender is living a life of luxury in India, having his feet kissed, and IMO, is probably perping kids when he has the chance--age is not a factor with pedophiles.

I am sickened by the ignorance being spewed around about this issue. Danny has said that this year 40 people from Unity School were questioned and nothing came out of that questioning. Well, who did the questioning and who were the ones on the ''hot seat.'' PAMs? Maharaji? Lawyers for Maharaji? He doesn't give a shit about anyone but himself and his precious family. Now I wonder what would Maharaji have done to Jagdeo had that monster molested his kids??

It's too easy to come to a public forum and make the kind of statements that Bimbo and Danny have made with no practical evidence to back up their claims. Sexual abuse is a serious crime against children. In the case of Susan, Abi and others, it is much worse because it happened within the context of a personality cult. Maharaji values his reputation more than a child's well-being. He has proven this for 20 years of silence about Jagdeo. Shame on him. He betrayed the most innocent and vulnerable within his cult. He has orchestrated coverups to save his own ass. Enough lies, Maharaji.

For the education of those who don't know much about this subject, I have included excerpts from Prevent Child Abuse America:

Sexual abuse of a child is inappropriately exposing or subjecting the child to sexual contact, activity, or behavior. Sexual abuse includes oral, anal, genital, buttock, and breast contact. It also includes the use of objects for vaginal or anal penetration, fondling, or sexual stimulation. This sexual activity may be with a boy or a girl and is done for the benefit of the offender. In addition, exploitation of a child for pornographic purposes, making a child available to others as a child prostitute, and stimulating a child with inappropriate solicitation, exhibitionism, and erotic material are also forms of sexual abuse.

How common is it?

In 1997, 1,054,000 children were confirmed by child protective services agencies (CPS) as victims of some form of abuse (15 out of every 1000 US children). According to this survey, 8% represented child sexual abuse (there were 844,320 new cases of child sexual abuse accepted for service). A 1996 national incidence study conducted by the federal government found that girls are sexually abused three times more often than boys.

Who are the victims?

Sexual abuse can occur in all populations. It happens to children in both rural and urban areas, in all socioeconomic and educational levels, and across all racial and cultural groups. Statistics indicate that girls are more frequently the victims of sexual abuse, but that the number of boys is also significant. Estimates suggest that males account for 25-35% of child sexual abuse victims. Factors that may increase a child's risk of sexual abuse include being between the ages of 7 and 14, having the absence of a parent from the home, and being a young child who appears isolated, depressed, or lonely.

Who are the perpetrators?

The majority of sexual abuse of children is done by someone the child knows. Sexual abuse can occur within the family (by a parent, step-parent, guardian, older sibling, or relative) or outside the family (often by a person well known by the child and family). Looking at a number of retrospective surveys, results have indicated that no more than 10-30% of the offenders were
strangers.

In 90% of child sexual abuse cases, the offenders are male and
are often described as being unassertive, withdrawn, and
emotionless. Other common characteristics include a history of abuse (either physical or sexual), alcohol or drug abuse, little satisfaction with sexual relationships with adults, lack of control over their emotions, and occasionally mental illness. These offenders usually create opportunities to be alone with a child.

What are the signs/effects?

Children who have been sexually abused are often too frightened to tell anyone, there are physical and behavioral signs that may be seen. Physical signs are vaginal or rectal or discharge, difficulty with bowel movements, urinating, or swallowing; recurring complaints of stomach-aches and/or headaches; and trauma to breasts, buttocks, lower abdomen, or genital or rectal areas. Their undergarments may also be torn, stained, or bloody. They may have vaginal infections or venereal diseases, and they may display difficulty in walking or sitting.

Behavioral signs are extreme changes in behavior (loss of
appetite, eating disorder, clingingness, withdrawal,
aggressiveness); recurrent nightmares, disturbed sleep patterns, or a sudden fear of the dark; regression to infantile behavior (bedwetting, thumb sucking, excessive crying); fear of a particular person or fear of being left alone with a particular
person or at a particular place. In addition, the victims may have poor relationships with other children, a lack of self-confidence, and the desire to engage in self destructive behavior (biting oneself, pulling out hair, wrist-cutting).

What can be done?

If sexual abuse of a child is suspected, it should be reported
to a child protective service or to the police. Any professional who fails to report a suspected case of abuse may face criminal
charges for not reporting their suspicion. However, it is not the
responsibility of the person suspecting abuse to prove that
abuse has occurred. It is important for the victims to receive medical attention for injuries or complaints, support for
their situation, and to not be blamed for the sexual abuse. It
is also important for these children to receive professional
help from those trained to counsel sexually abused children.

Now what has Maharaji done for those kids who were hurt by Jagdeo? NOTHING. What are his so-called premies (lovers of truth) doing about it? NOTHING. Except coming here to hurt those people again and again with lies and their own spin on it for the benefit of someone who calls himself Perfect.

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Date: Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 14:00:24 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Myths and Rationalizations By Bimbo
Message:
Thank you, Cynthia.

I should add that 'Bimbo' (AKA Bjorn) thinks that he has learned 'facts' from this forum and associated sites which somehow prove that Jagdeo did not sexually abuse children. He is WRONG - he has consistently misinterpreted posts here (I've experienced this personally).

He also does not realize that everything that is going on, or has been said re the Jagdeo molestations, will NOT appear in public on either the forum or associated sites. This has been done at the request of some of the victims, in order to protect them from harassment.

Personally, I think protecting the victims as much as possible is far more important than making every detail available to people like Bimbo, who seems to be engaged in a 'who experienced the worse abuse?' contest. As you have pointed out, Cynthia, the extent of the abuse does not always reflect the effect it has on the victim.

Take care, Cynthia - this guy really bothers me as well, and I want him out of here too. He's obviously got his own abuse-related problems, and one of them appears to be minimizing what has happened to other people.

Love,
Katie

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Date: Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 15:49:29 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Myths and Rationalizations By Bimbo
Message:
Hi Katie,

You're right. I glad he's gone. There's no talking to him at all. None at all. It's a waste of time, and I do want to respect the wishes of the victims--that's a very important point.

Sometimes I feel so powerless about this issue and wish I could do something for the survivors, but that's my own ''protective mothering'' instinct kicking in, as well as my own history, of course.

Love,
Cynthia

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Date: Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 17:17:17 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Myths and Rationalizations By Bimbo
Message:
Thanks, Cynthia -
It DOES really help when you stand up for Jagdeo's victims on this forum, believe me. I agree that you cannot talk to Bimbo - he does not appear to understand English very well - and I don't think he is ever going to be 'convinced' of anything no matter what anyone says or does. But your posts are still valuable - thanks.

Love,
Katie

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 09:53:43 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Well said Cynthia (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 01:33:14 (GMT)
From: Cynathia
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: I lost quite a bit of above post^^^not enough
Message:
space, I guess. I will try to reconstruct it, but I think you get the gist.

Cynthia

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 02:07:55 (GMT)
From: Bimbo
Email: None
To: Cynathia
Subject: Re Myths and Facts
Message:
According to Susan, Jagdeo did not have sexual intercourse with her or Abi or any other victims. He touched their breasts and buttocks though.
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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 14:01:40 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Bimbo
Subject: Worse than you make out, Bimbo
Message:
I think Jagdeo did more to Abi than you suggest. And worse, it was over a fairly lengthy period and not just a one-off. If you read Abi's report on my site about her abuse, you'll see that the abuse was calculated and relentless over a period of time and it caused much suffering to Abi.
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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 02:17:56 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Bimbo
Subject: Re Myths in your mind
Message:
Sexual abuse of a child is inappropriately exposing or subjecting the child to sexual contact, activity, or behavior. Sexual abuse includes oral, anal, genital, buttock, and breast contact. It also includes the use of objects for vaginal or anal penetration, fondling, or sexual stimulation. This sexual activity may be with a boy or a girl and is done for the benefit of the offender. In addition, exploitation of a child for pornographic purposes, making a child available to others as a child prostitute, and stimulating a child with inappropriate solicitation, exhibitionism, and erotic material are also forms of sexual abuse..

Those of you who know me know that what takes me out of lurking mode is the kind of post like Bimbo's, who seems to have taken an appropriate name, in all the best senses of the word.

Stonor

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 03:13:02 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: Bimbo, are you thick or dumb.
Message:
I am not sure if you have kids, but how would you feel if your daughter comes one day in tear telling you that her teacher 'only' been touching her breast and buttock for the last six months.

Ofcourse it never happens in your mind, but is did happen to Susan.

When are you getting of your pedistal and coming down to earth you moron?

Can you read you idiot.

WAKE UP.

Salam

Bimbo also sucks

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 09:13:14 (GMT)
From: Bimbo
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Bimbo, thick and dumb?
Message:
If my daughter (in real life) told me that a person had tocuhed her breast and buttocks, I would have visited and yelled to that person and asked him to keep his keep his fingers for himself.

However if someone had sex with my daughter, and she told me about it, I would not rest till the guy was behind bars.

That is if my daughter was younger than 15. (Ive heard that people in the US and India is married at the age of 12. Is that correct?)

If my daughter was 15, I doubt she would have told me, but she would have definitely yelled at that person herself if he touched her breasts and buttocks.

BTW did you read the latest shocking report about attitudes of sex with children. Like a Kinsey report. It is really so sickening and shows the darkness of our age.

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 17:02:37 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Bimbo
Subject: Take this challenge....
Message:
Bimbo said

If my daughter (in real life) told me that a person had tocuhed her breast and buttocks, I would have visited and yelled to that person and asked him to keep his keep his fingers for himself.

However if someone had sex with my daughter, and she told me
about it, I would not rest till the guy was behind bars.

Cynthia replies:

You miss the point. All sexual abuse is a crime. Did you read my post? There is a wide range of ''types'' of sexual abuse and to categorize them as you have done minimizes and demeans the survivor/victim. The only distinction is probably the length of the jail sentence if a perp is caught.

Furthermore, when sexual abuse includes digital or genital penetration, IT IS NOT SEX. It is rape!!! Educate yourself you moron.

Now you have come here spewing all that you seem to know about the Jagdeo issue, you have looked adoringly into goomraji's eyes, so that leads me to believe you have some contact with M.

If that is TRUE, THEN I HEREBY CHALLENGE YOU TO CONFRONT MAHARAJI ABOUT THIS WHOLE ISSUE NOW--FACE TO FACE. GO AHEAD BIG MAN, DO THE RIGHT THING FOR THOSE KIDS WHO MAHARAJI ALLOWED TO BE ABUSED BY DOING NOTHING. ASK HIM WHY HE DID NOTHING. ASK HIM HOW HE'D REACT IF HIS DAUGHTERS WERE ABUSED BY ONE OF HIS ''MAHATMAS.''

You come here and flaunt yourself, Bimbo, yet you have no credibility because you didn't even read my post. You missed the entire point.

I don't know what 'report' you spoke about, but seeing you know how to use the internet, look up some sites, like Prevent Child Abuse America, Child Help--those are enough to get you started--they have many links too. Then come back here and tell me that sexual abuse is sex. Rape is not sex. You are unbelievable!

Go to Maharaji and ask him about it--you seem to know sooo much, or ARE YOU AFRAID OF HIM???

Cynthia

P.S. To the exes here....I'm okay. Don't worry....everything is fine with me. I just will not tolerate this Bimbo's ignorance, particularly because there are women here who were very hurt by Jagdeo and Maharaji has done nothing. It's sensitive, but I can handle it. I hope I'm not triggering too many others here, and let me know if I do, please.

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 20:39:03 (GMT)
From: Bimbo
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Re this challenge....
Message:
Hi Cynthia
I think you mix me and Danny, I am not the person who 'have looked adoringly into goomraji's eyes,'

Furthermore I might be too thick too understand the English expression and what you write:

You wrote:
'when sexual abuse includes digital or genital penetration, IT IS NOT SEX. It is rape!!! Educate yourself you moron.'

This is not the same you pasted from the Homepage of Prevent Child Abuse Amarica: According to their definitions:
'Sexual abuse of a child is inappropriately exposing or subjecting the child to sexual contact, activity, or behavior. Sexual abuse includes oral, anal, genital, buttock, and breast contact. It also includes the use of objects for vaginal or anal penetration, fondling, or sexual stimulation.'

But I am not writing about this any more, at least not at this Forum; it is too sickening.

I think however it is a fact that most ex-premies are led to believe that Jagdeo had sex with small children, which according to Susan there are no reports about.

BTW I do not see Maharaji a lot, therefore I cannot take your challenge. However I am convinced that Maharaji had no knowledge of Jagdeos fondling or touching with these girls. Honestly I have tried to find about this.

Re the report I talked about, it will not be published at the net till march 2001. I found this at TextTV and mailed the researcher, but it not completed yet. However it is shocking and it appears that 28,6 % of the test panel of 700 people said they probably would have sex with children if they knew they would not be prosecuted for the 'act' For children under 12 if I understood correctly, the percentage was 5 %, if I remember correctly. I've also informed the president of PCAA about this report to come.

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 23:57:23 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Bimbo
Subject: You're one weird fucker, bjorn
Message:
But I am not writing about this any more, at least not at this Forum; it is too sickening

You say this in reference to pedophilia, and you have said this before, but it seems this is about all you want to talk about and it's an obsession with you.

Shut the fuck up will you? Don't you know this subject is extremely upsetting to some people hear and they (we) are sick to death of hearing about it from your foul mouth.

However I am convinced that Maharaji had no knowledge of Jagdeos fondling or touching with these girls. Honestly I have tried to find about this.

How could you know anything about this? Even when the very people involved tell you the circumstances repeatedly, you refuse to believe them.

You're also a fucking liar. You're just after some sick thrill you get out of talking about this in the minutest detail. You'd like to know every stroke, touch, blow, and feel, wouldn't you, you fucking sick scumbag.

FA CAN'T YOU GET RID OF THIS GUY ONCE AND FOR ALL?

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Date: Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 06:05:16 (GMT)
From: Monmot
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: You're one weird fucker, bjorn
Message:
I agree, Gerry. I think Bjorn gets off big time on this stuff. And I am beginning to think that his attempt to exonerate Maharaji is a lame and offensive attempt at exonerating himself for his prurient interest (and probably activity) in pedophilia.

Give the dude the hook, he's a pilot fish.

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Date: Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 04:54:57 (GMT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: This guy might not be a paedophile
Message:
but he sure as hell thinks like one,
and it sure looks like the guru defence angle gives him the perfect cover

that paedophile psychology that always excuses itself, and is riddled with denial, has some strong overlaps with cult thinking
I reckon

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 10:58:36 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Bimbo
Subject: Well I am holding to my seat. Bimbo is angry.
Message:
Is that what you gonna do you mut, go and tell him off?

What are you made of, jelly and custared?

you dayghter is your daughter. Does not matter how old is she. Do you belive that crap about legal age.

I do not know what you consider yourself in regard to your guru. But I take it he is your spiritual teacher. Jadgeo is one of his ministers, and he claims to be a self realised spiritual person that has not material needsincluding sex. DO YOU FUCKING HEAR. NO SEX.

Yet he turn around, takes a bunch of kids to a room, shuts the door, turns the lights off and lay next to each. What do you call that. This is not about what you think or one person only, neither it is happened once. It happened consistantly with many people knowing about it. It is a case of miss trust and using your authority for your own agenda.

This whole issue should have been presented in court a long time ago.

DO YOU HAVE A STRAIGHT FUCKING ANSWER?

No you do not. Because you are an idiot premie. All you care about is your fucking experience. All you really consider is love and peace that your fucking guru brings you. Well tell me mister, if you have the most incredable thing on this plant then what the fuck are you doing here? you and people like you should have figured what this shit is all about a long time ago.

But I do not think so. Oh yeah, we exes do not have any feelings to people. Oh yeah you exes do not let premies say what they want. Well you had your turn, AND YOU SUCK, go it you low life spinless worm.

Have you read what you're writting. Go and bloody re-read it, because your attacks on Susan and MD are laughable.

Stupid idiot, 'if my daughter was.....', you prick

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 11:27:00 (GMT)
From: Bimbo
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Bimbo - angry in the real life ....
Message:
well it would be likely I would have cut off the guys balls

You wrote;'This whole issue should have been presented in court a long time ago.

DO YOU HAVE A STRAIGHT FUCKING ANSWER?'

If Jagdeo had sex with this children, the case would have been taken to court.

But due to some investigation, I know something you don't.-, but I will not tell it here.

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 12:43:53 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: salam_au@iprimus.com.au
To: Bimbo
Subject: You are a dorck.
Message:
Is this another one of your suicide posts?

Last time you took us all on a spin with your antics.

Why do you persist in doing shit like that? Are you afraid of someone or something? Do you see exes as bady snatchers?

Why do not just say what is on your mind and let us decide?

So now you are telling us that there is a new investigation and you are privy to it. Well I am flabergasted. Just think of that, Susan and MD are a pair of morons then because someone has gone beyond his/her limit to carry on an investigation. Well well, at least I got that far with you. At least someone has bothered to do something about it.

DO NOT YOU BLODDY THINK THAT WE DICKHEADS WILL HAVE KNOWN ABOUT IT.

I have asked you in the past and am asking you again, if you have something say it, and stop chasing your tail.

If you have something, then it is right to tell it here. I do not know you and you do not know me, but if you want to, I put my e-mail above. And please change your silly name.

Salam pissed off.

and

Rawat sucks

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 12:54:50 (GMT)
From: Bimbo
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: I am a defender of truth
Message:
I found something. If valid, I think Anth / Michael should tell about it. I will address them.
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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 13:32:57 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Bimbo
Subject: Bang
Message:
Well that put an end to that argument.

Will see next time.

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 09:27:37 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Bimbo
Subject: lets see you take this dare, then
Message:
if the person who did that to your daughter--lets say she was 11--was maharaj ji, would you have the courage to yell at him?? slap him? put him behind bars? pursue it unto conviction, sentencing, and lockdown?there's a dare that'll pop your bubble.get this straight. for you its a theoretical. you can bolt from the thought, when it gets too difficult.for us, it isnt theoretical. we cant ignore it. it happened/ the pretense is horribly dispelled.
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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 02:13:21 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Bimbo
Subject: To: Bimbo, the Really Stupid
Message:
Have you no decency? Have you no shame? Did you read my entire post?

Either you just like to intentionally hurt people or you are just plain stupid. Either way, you are in a cult. HA HA on you. You don't even know it!

Get bent, idiot. I know Susan's story, if you have a brain left from all that brainwashing, please use it here or leave.

Fuck off.

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 02:24:44 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: stonor21@hotmail.com
To: Cynthia
Subject: To: Bimbo, the Really Stupid
Message:
No, he is brainwashed, like all too many cult members. And I don't think he read your post either ... too many challenges put forward to say what he was prepared to 'reframe' for his own deluded vision.

Anna

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 02:42:57 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: To Stonor
Message:
Hi Stonor,

Yeah, but there's a difference between being brainwashed and being intentionally hurtful toward Susan by posting that.

Whoever Bimbo is, he/she is here just to upset people. It's pretty sad when someone has nothing to say and just pukes all over everyone else.

Be Well,
Cynthia

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 02:45:25 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Yeah, but ... it's a fine line it seems. NT
Message:
I DO understand your point very well.
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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 02:52:33 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: I agree, Bimbo has to defend his cult leader at
Message:
all costs. So I guess the brainwashing is fully engaged.

After all, Bimbo did look into his eyes in adulation!!

I hope I didn't trigger you too much. I felt the need to make this issue more clear for everyone. That Bimbo is a real pain in the ass.

That name is also a very very very weird choice for someone who is trying to gain credibility. LOLOL

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 08:15:26 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Bimbo is a lower still incarnation of Bjorn nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 03:04:03 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Bimbo est un douleur dans nos feces!!
Message:
No 'trigger' at all for me - was worried about yours. And YES - he has no idea how appropriate his chosen name is!!! ;-) But that's what it takes to look with adulation into the eyes of another BIMBO!

Isn't a 'Bimbo' someone who is into appearances without substance? YES: LOL, LOL, ROFFL!

Anna

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 02:04:33 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Never Mind.....It came back.......NT
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 00:33:13 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: salam_au@iprimus.com.au
To: Everyone
Subject: To Kelly. Re: Jagdeo
Message:
I am not sure if you know were J the prick lives. But do you have his exact address? Want to send him A happy we know where you are you bastard son of a bitch postcard and expect to get more.(sorry about my enthusiasim).

Does he have an e-mail too ?

Salam

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 16:35:54 (GMT)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: To Kelly. Re: Jagdeo
Message:
I,m still working out how this forum works. I have just posted a response to Jean Michel below but it is really meant for you and others as well. So as you will see, his address,if he is still there is care of Shri Sant Yogashram which has phone fax e-mail, the lot. I will try to find out if he is still there, but, as you said, they are probably onto me by now!
Kelly
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Date: Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 02:34:56 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Kelly
Subject: To Kelly. Re: Jagdeo
Message:
Kelly,

I agree with you that this place looks like a bazar sometimes, your lucky to find your dog if you lose him. But that is life. Do not you worry, you jusy keep focused on me and you shall be a reck in no time.

I looked around for that address but could not see it. Am not sure, but do they have street names in India with numbers, or do I send a letter address to the ashram and hope that the mail man knows what I want. Do you get my gist.

You probably to confused having to read all the non-sense around, put ppppppplllllllllleeeeeeeetttttttzzzzzzzzz help me here.

I was wondering if you could draw a pic. of the place (the ashram) and send it to Jean-Micheal or Sir David to place on their sites, this way everyone can see what you're talking about. Also Cynthia and her crack troops of egg and tomato throwers can make a quick in an out without too much fuss.

Salam

I think Rawat still sucks

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Date: Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 08:11:34 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Here's Mahatamaji's phone#!
Message:
Why don't you call

91-11-680-8601 (Delhi ashram)

and ask for mahatmaji?

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Date: Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 12:04:08 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Here's Mahatamaji's phone#!
Message:
Do you think he'll talk to an ant like me?
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Date: Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 15:55:52 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Here's Mahatamaji's phone#!
Message:
Salam, you're not an ant!

Besides, he's a slug, actually, a slug is a higher life form than he is.

Good luck!

Love,
Cynthia

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Date: Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 16:38:58 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Thank you
Message:
Actually, I am a cyber ant.

My negotiating powers are very low at present, and I fear if I called him, you will be hearing me across the pacific telling him what I think of him. how about you?

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Date: Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 21:01:10 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Everyone should call him - Ah, Jim?
Message:
Jim, here's your next mission!

KIA

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Date: Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 22:18:11 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: I agree, Jim's next mission: The Phone Call
Message:
I'm sure the phone would get slammed in my ear, but Jim, oh I know you could do it!!
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Date: Sun, Nov 26, 2000 at 20:16:17 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Danny, Maharaji and the Paedophile.
Message:
Looks like we’ve got another premie trying to tell us that the Perfect Master didn’t know about Jagdeo. I find this half hearted attempt to water down Jagdeos crimes and the cult cover-up quite offensive.

“So, sounds to me like something's missing in this story. You think anybody had anything to gain by protecting Jagdeo? I don't. And I'm sure neither Randy nor Judy would knowingly risk the safety of children to protect one guy. He'd be outta there on his ass so fast you wouldn't even see him spinning. And no, Jethro, I didn't see him in India.”

Of course the cult had something to gain by protecting Jagdeo you fucking dickhead. They were avoiding bad publicity being associated with the cult and Maharaji. They didn’t want to see a newspaper article with the words “Cult”, “Maharaji” and “Child Abuse” on the same page.

And what makes you so sure Randy and Judy would risk children’s safety to protect Maharaji? I can’t believe you’ve got the nerve to spout such bullshit. If they told Maharaji and then were told by him not to say anything about it, what do you think they would have done? They had already reported it, as asked. They acted with integrity. Then the Perfect Master fudges and avoids the issue, doing nothing, allowing the filthy paedophile to have his “children’s satsangs sessions” in darkened rooms. Then it all comes out into the open and they are told to “forget.”They were protecting Maharaji, not Jagdeo.

You know what stinks, their response wasn’t, “No, Susan didn’t tell me and I didn’t tell Maharaji.” It was, “I can’t remember”.

And as regards your comment to Jethro- 'You didn't see Jagdeo at the programme in India five years ago.' Trying to create the impression he wasn't there- well we've got a photo of him dickhead, so you're help on the matter of his whereabouts is no help.

So, Danny, stop coming here you pathetic satsang is bad enough, but what is really offensive is your participation in the cult cover-up of a child molestor.

Why don't you fuck off?

Anth Ginn

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Date: Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 19:32:52 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: AJW
Subject: Danny's non-response, in case you missed it...
Message:
Anth, down below in response to Susan, Danny - pretending he's above petty, spiteful rejoinders - 'obliquely' addresses the points you raise.

I have to make a point of ignoring rabid, baseless and offensive spewings like those above from AJW and others. Being accused of harboring, promoting or protecting sick, criminal activity by someone who has no idea of who I am or what kind of life I've lived is so far off that it doesn't deserve the dignity of comment. It just pisses me off mightily and makes me call into question the judgement of anyone who would fling such crap around, so easily. That kind of approach just makes me feel like reasonable dialogue isn't a possibility here. I'm busy as it is and I have no need nor desire to be verbally abused, here or anywhere else.

Here speaks the man who unnecessarily, and deliberately (IMO) upset Susan and other victims of sexual abuse by pretending to have information which challenged their accounts. Only upon direct confrontation does he concede that he accepts Susan's story after all, without qualifying or quantifying his own presumed knowledge of who said what to who, whenever.

(So instead, he's now playing wounded bloody soldier for all it's worth, and on a forum that was never set up for him and upon which his sole desire is to spread as much satsang as the Admins can stomach).

Bloody drama queen, I'd say.

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Date: Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 05:22:29 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: just more 'covert-aggressive' cult behaviour
Message:
Actually Nigel, it's all just standard covert-aggressive ('nice' but more insidious bully) behaviour.

From Dealing with Manipulative People:

Denial -This is when the aggressor refuses to admit that they've done something harmful or hurtful when they clearly have. It's a way they lie (to themselves as well. as others) about their aggressive intentions. This 'Who... Me?' tactic is a way of 'playing innocent,' and invites the victim to feel unjustified in confronting the aggressor about the inappropriateness of a behavior. It's also the way the aggressor gives him/herself permission to keep right on doing what, they want to do.

Playing the Victim Role -This tactic involves portraying oneself as an innocent victim of circumstance or someone else's behavior in order to gain sympathy, evoke compassion and thereby get something from another. One thing that covert-aggressive personalities count on is the fact that less calloused and hostile personalities usually can't stand to see anyone suffering. Therefore, the tactic is simple. Convince your victim you're suffering in some way, and they'll try to relieve your distress.

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Date: Sun, Nov 26, 2000 at 23:52:25 (GMT)
From: Bimbo
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Anth and the truth
Message:
Danny wrote: 'And no, Jethro, I didn't see him in India. (obiously he talks about november 2000)'

Anth wrote:'And as regards your comment to Jethro- 'You didn't see Jagdeo at the programme in India five years ago.' Trying to create the impression he wasn't there- well we've got a photo of him dickhead, so you're help on the matter of his whereabouts is no help.'

Please help me here, I can't see the connection.

BTW Do you really, after failing in your attempts, still think that the press would be interested in publishing a story about a man who did not have sex with a girl 25 years ago? They might have been interested if you would have managed to report the case to the police, but you screwed that, didnt you? As well as you screwed the press thing.

BTW the press goes for more juicy stuff than this.

Drip, drip

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 09:46:49 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Bimbo
Subject: Bimbo- Defender of the Paedophile
Message:
Hey Bimbo,

I knew you were a thick, brainwashed dickhead, but I didn't know you were such a bag of putrid, premie slime who would try to cover up for a paedophile- have you and Jagdeo had something going between you?

You wrote, 'BTW Do you really, after failing in your attempts, still think that the press would be interested in publishing a story about a man who did not have sex with a girl 25 years ago? '

So what you're saying here is that Abi and Susan are lying, that Jagdeo isn't a paedophile?

This is really offensive crap Bimbo. You should read their accounts of what that disgusting creep did to them. It's on Sir Daves site, and be ashamed of yourself.

Or do you think it's ok for Mahatma Ji to have special children's knowledge sessions where he fucks little girls? That there's nothing wrong with this?

Have you got any children yourself Bimbo? How would you react if Mahatma-Ji said your little girl was a blessed soul, who incarnated only to be with the Lord, and as a Mahatma he should have special satsang with her- in a dark room?

Just for the record Bimbo- I reported Jagedeo to the police for sexually molesting a child in my care. I didn't go to the newspapers- the newspapers came to me and I answered their questions.

You really are a fucked-up slimeball Bimbo. I think it's time for you to go.

Anth the angry

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 11:05:24 (GMT)
From: Bimbo
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Anth and the truth
Message:
Hey Anth,
The thick, brainwashed dickhead are going to address you some questions in a private mail

I wrote, 'BTW Do you really, after failing in your attempts, still think that the press would be interested in publishing a story about a man who did not have sex with a girl 25 years ago? '

You wrote: 'So what you're saying here is that Abi and Susan are lying, that Jagdeo isn't a paedophile?' I just said Jagdeo did not have sex with any of the girls according to Susan. I have no personal knowledge of his sexual status, but I never really liked him. But I will address you some alarming facts in private.

I have read Susan and Abis accounts and yours. BTW why are the original journeys removed from this site?

You wrote : Or do you think it's ok for Mahatma Ji to have special children's knowledge sessions where he fucks little girls?

I write:
According to Susans knowledge Jagdeo did not fuck little girls:

You wrote: -
'I reported Jagedeo to the police for sexually molesting a child in my care. I didn't go to the newspapers- the newspapers came to me and I answered their questions.'

I write:
'I know the regulations about reporting a crime in Europe and England. If you did, you had to give up the names of the victims, names according to you you did not give to EV. The police did obiously not contact EV, which sounds very strange indeed. I also know about how the police would handle such a case, they are not allowed to go to the press.

Bimbo who is going to address you in private, I think somethings is too dirty to discuss here.

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Date: Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 14:15:23 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Bimbo
Subject: Bimbo and the truth
Message:
Bimbo -
You appear to believe that you have learned 'facts' from this forum, from personal e-mail, and from the ex-premie sites which minimize the extent of child abuse by Jagdeo.

You are WRONG - there is far more going on than you will see in public here, or than people will reveal to you in e-mail. All that has been done and said re the Jagdeo molestations, will NOT, and will probably NEVER, appear in public on either the forum or associated sites. This has been done at the request of some of the victims, in order to protect them from harassment.

You ask why Susan and Abi's posts are not on ex-premie.org. This has nothing to do with legality, or any doubt in the truth of their stories (or the parts of their stories they have allowed to be told in public.) Basically, the extent of the abuse is none of your business - it's the business of the victims ONLY. You obviously do not respect the victim's right to privacy - well, I DO.

Personally, I think protecting the victims as much as possible is far more important than making every detail available to you or anyone except a court of law. I wish you felt the same way - obviously, you do not. You appear to be obsessed with this issue, and I can tell you right now that no matter how much you harass Susan or Anth, call them liars, or harass anyone else here, you are not going to get any more details.

I realize that you have your own issues surrounding sexual abuse issues, but they do not belong on this forum. I am not sure why you feel compelled to keep bringing up this issue, and in minimizing the harm done to Jagdeo's victims, but it is obviously not helping you or anyone else here. I hope you really DO mean it this time when you say you are leaving.

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Date: Sun, Nov 26, 2000 at 21:15:34 (GMT)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Danny, Maharaji and the Paedophile.
Message:
I have spent some time in the Delhi ashram in the past few years. Jagdeo (aka Mahatma ji) lives a quiet privileged life, waited on hand and foot by sweet humble young Indian premies, who put up with his incessant demands for attention and pander to his every whim. He is obsessed wih keeping a good supply of bottled water in his room, he has boxes and boxes. Not for him the regular ashram tap water. He must be too pure!
On several occasions I have seen ordinary premies touch his feet.
Personally the only thing I have against him is the very loud and intrusive way he has of clearing his throat and sinus passages.
He is also very fond of his food and usually the first to every meal.
Sure, he always sits with the other Mahatmas at events, or did when there were Mahatmas. I don't know what they are called now I have not been there in the last year.
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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 18:25:00 (GMT)
From: Joy
Email: joy52@earthlink.net
To: Kelly
Subject: Danny, Maharaji and the Paedophile.
Message:
Kelly, I just want to thank you for your wonderful and heartfelt post about your recent journey out of cult thinking. It was so inspiring and makes me feel so glad and privileged to be part of this Forum (even though I hardly ever post). We are all here for you if and when you need us. I remember feeling quite depressed and actually suicidal at times after leaving the ashram and my 10-year involvement with M, so it may be a rocky road for awhile after the initial freedom wears off (but then again there was no ex-premie.org around when I left!). A woman I used to work with said I was like 'a person without a country'. It is a major loss, the loss of one's belief system, community, personal god, etc. and the grieving/reintegrating process may not always be smooth or easy. But as I said, we are all here for you and with you 100%. Some, such as Disculta, have quite extensive psychological experience with helping people reintegrate after involvements of this type so do not hesitate to e-mail if you need to.

And as for Jagdeo, that creep! This all sickens me so much. To think I used to cook for the sleezebag, three full Indian meals a day, with fresh chapatis made from scratch, and covered with a napkin on a special tray. This was all back in 1975 at the Race St. ashram in Denver. I had a hiatus from typesetting for several months and did Indian cooking for the mahatmaji's (until Michael Donner told me to get back to the typesetting room or I was fired!). Jagdeo was one of the more demanding, he would waltz in and snap his fingers and demand TEA! Peppermint tea! and I'd have to drop everything and bring it to him (with covered napkin, of course). Never a please or thank you. What I remember most was that one bulging, leering eye and the tight-lipped grin he always had. To think he was molesting young children while being waited on like this (and may still be) makes my blood boil. I hope he can somehow be prosecuted and slung in jail where he belongs instead of retiring in luxury still waited on like a god himself.

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 03:11:13 (GMT)
From: Michael Dettmers
Email: dettmers@gylanix.com
To: Kelly
Subject: Danny, Maharaji and the Paedophile.
Message:
Kelly,

Congratulations for your post below and the courage it reflects. Thank you also for your clarification about Jagdeo and his situation in India. Just for the record, here is what Marcia Leitner, a member of Élan Vital’s Board of Directors, wrote to Susan on August 31, 2000:

“I understand that Michael Dettmers has passed on to you the fact that Jagdeo is no longer associated in any capacity with Élan Vital organizations worldwide. He has not performed any duties as an instructor in the United States since the 1980’s. He is now retired and living in a village in India. “

I don’t believe that Marcia, a practicing lawyer, intentionally lied. However, I think she, like Terry Yingling, EV’s PR person, allowed herself to be used by Maharaji and his closest x-rated aides to perpetuate this despicable cover up.

Michael

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 21:24:49 (GMT)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: Michael Dettmers
Subject: the Paedophile.has moved on
Message:
I feel really a bit wierd about this whole Jagdeo thing. I have made enquiries and it seems that he has moved (or been moved) on.
He is no longer at the Delhi ashram. I have not yet caught up on how relevant this might be or how important the exact dates are and I am sorry If I have misled anybody. I don't know exactly when he left, in the last year, I was told.
As far as I was concerned, I had read Susan's story and some other stuff and was appalled that a known paedophile was living such a life of ease in the ashram.
It struck a particular chord with me because I was a victim of childhood sexual abuse. My brother and I were both abused by my father.
I have read some of the dialogue here with Bimbo and was sickened.
To suggest that because it was 25 years ago and that penetrative sex did not take place, somehow makes it ok, is incredible. I am pleased to tell you Bimbo that in the UK anyway , sex offenders are being prosecuted regularly for crimes committed 30 and more years ago. Time cannot distance you from your crimes. Do you hear that Maharaji? Nor can it distance you from your statements and activities. However long ago.
Your contributions to this forum, Michael, have played a significant role in helping me to see the wood for the trees. Some things which I had thought were exaggeration or rumour, turn out to be the truth and I thank you for your sincerity ,and
I do especially appreciate the time and effort you have put into unfolding this story.
with love Kelly
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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 21:52:13 (GMT)
From: Bimbo
Email: None
To: Kelly
Subject: Re Jagdeo has moved on
Message:
Believe me Kenny, I do not in any way defend Jagdeos behaviour. However, the reason for my engagement in this case, is that I believed, as I think most ex-premies still think, that Jagdeo had sex with children. There are a serious line to be crossed, I dont think Jagdeo crossed that. I wanted to find out the truth about this matter, and I discovered lies. I will not post them, but I will present them to the persons involved. I like to call a spade for a spade.
I also have strong reasons to believe that Maharaji did not know about this case.
I am sorry to hear about your experiences. I also have been sexually abused as a kid.

But life goes on, best wishes to you

As you are new here, I hope you will stay awake. Like when you write you have seen Jagdeo in an ashram, people are so 'cultivated' in their heads that they cannot read that it was one or two years since you were in india. So at least try to be accurate with what you say and write here.

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Date: Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 05:35:05 (GMT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Bimbo
Subject: How's your paedophile therapy going? (nt)
Message:
a
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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 22:54:06 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Bimbo
Subject: Bimbo...Shut the F**K up! nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 22:13:59 (GMT)
From: Monmot
Email: None
To: Bimbo
Subject: To Bjorn the Bimbo
Message:
Bjorn:

What is it with you? You crawl out from under your rock whenever Jagdeo is mentioned, and then proceed to attack Anth, Dettmers, and numerous other people here implying that they either didn't do enough to apprehend Jagdeo, or insist they are stupid and are liars. You also imply, because the sex wasn't penetrative, or so you think (there are other cases out there about which you know nothing), that the persons who were molested by Jagdeo as children didn't really suffer sexual molestation by Jagdeo.

You said this to Kelly (not Kenny, btw):
So at least try to be accurate with what you say and write here.

You have enormous cojones, Bjorn, to say that to Kelly, especially from someone like you who likes to split hairs trying to defend Jagdeo, M's role in his protection, and in what constitutes sexual abuse.

You've mentioned that you are seeing a therapist for your problems, and sorry to say, they are multitudinous as far as I can see. We all have our problems, but to me, you are the classic victimizer posing as a victim, a reprehensible trait as far as I'm concerned. I think you should keep your specious comments to your interaction between you and your therapist, and leave the issue alone here.

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Date: Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 00:28:46 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Monmot
Subject: thanks Monmot
Message:
That was elegant and to the point. I appreciate it.

I hope this dolt gets a clue and leaves us all alone...

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Date: Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 01:52:35 (GMT)
From: Monmot
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: You're welcome...He drives me nuts too. nt
Message:
mm
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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 09:26:18 (GMT)
From: Bimbo
Email: None
To: Michael Dettmers
Subject: Michael, are you stupid or just dishonest?
Message:
Kelly tells about that he ahs seen Jagdeo in India. He also says 'I have not been there in the last year.'

As of this summer Marcia tells that Jagdeo is retired and lives in a village in India. Re quote: ' “I understand that Michael Dettmers has passed on to you the fact that Jagdeo is no longer associated in any capacity with Élan Vital organizations worldwide. He has not performed any duties as an instructor in the United States since the 1980’s. He is now retired and living in a village in India. “

Does this make Marcia a liar, Michael? Or you?

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 10:17:21 (GMT)
From: Michael Dettmers
Email: dettmers@gylanix.com
To: Bimbo
Subject: Neither stupid nor a liar
Message:
In the post I read form Kelly, he said “I have spent some time in the Delhi ashram in the past few years. Jagdeo (aka Mahatma ji) lives a quiet privileged life, waited on hand and foot by sweet humble young Indian premies, who put up with his incessant demands for attention and pander to his every whim.”

When mahatmas retire in India, they live in an ashram where they are taken care of in their old age, although not all are waited on hand and foot. Mahatmas who served in the West, however, were often accorded a more exalted status, especially if they had direct contact with Maharaji, as did Jagdeo. Thus, I find Kelly’s account very credible because it is consistent with the standard practice I had witnessed in India many times.

What I don’t find credible is Ms. Leitner’s account that Jagdeo “is now retired and living in a village in India.“

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Date: Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 08:13:44 (GMT)
From: A knowlegable one
Email: None
To: Michael Dettmers
Subject: Just stupid
Message:
Jagdeo use to be the chief magistrate in Delhi. Work it out for yourselves.
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Date: Tues, Nov 28, 2000 at 18:55:39 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: A knowlegable one
Subject: Jagdeo was a university professor. It was
Message:
Rajeswar who was the magestrate.
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Date: Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 08:15:05 (GMT)
From: The Hint
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: Jagdeo was a university professor. It was
Message:
Wanna bet? I use to drive him around. Rajneesh use to be the Professor of Logic(Philosophy) at Bombay Uni. My hint is trying to make you aware of the Bukshee involved.Try thinking like an Indian . You know ...Caste system , postion , power...old boy networks
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Date: Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 02:09:33 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: Jagdeo was a university professor. It was
Message:
Do you know which uni. and what did he teach?
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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 11:18:51 (GMT)
From: Bimbo
Email: None
To: Michael Dettmers
Subject: Neither stupid nor a liar?
Message:
Michael you wrote: 'In the post I read form Kelly, he said “I have spent some time in the Delhi ashram in the past few years. Jagdeo (aka Mahatma ji) lives a quiet privileged life, waited on hand and foot by sweet humble young Indian premies, who put up with his incessant demands for attention and pander to his every whim.”

So then I take you did not read or understand the sentence Kenny wrote about he has not been in India last year?

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 09:41:25 (GMT)
From: janet and her army
Email: None
To: Bimbo
Subject: Michael, are you stupid or just dishonest?
Message:
the one person on this forum you do not get that tone with, is Michael Dettmers. Dettmers has gone through the fire and come out whole. you clearly do not know his history , either in decades past, or in the present.you choice of terms and vocabulary damn you better than i ever could.
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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 03:27:29 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Michael Dettmers
Subject: Danny, Maharaji and the Paedophile.
Message:
Even if you've never heard of me (you haven't), I have to tell you how much I respect you as another human being who has been through something that few would find the strength to folow or to leave (a sure lunch) with no small amount of potential retribution attached. I believe that I am the only non-anything posting with any regularity at this time, and all I can say to you is thank you for sharing your departure from the heart/mind/soulfuck with others who are struggling. It is with great happiness that I see that your lead has encouraged others to find the power within them to see/feel the truth and recognize the lies of m and others like him.

Love, Anna

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Date: Sun, Nov 26, 2000 at 21:56:08 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Kelly
Subject: wow....
Message:
that is really disgusting that he is still living a life in which he is revered.

Do you recall if there were ever any kids at this ashram? I really hope that at the very least they are at least keeping children away from him.

The way you describe it, if premies are touching his feet and waiting on him hand and foot, they probably would be just as honored now in India if he wanted to spend time with their children as the premie parents were in US and England when he wanted to spend time with theirs.

This is truly appalling.

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 08:51:36 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: Amar school is next building
Message:
part of SantYogAshram.

Amar school IS a primary boarding school, and quite some pupils (dozens of them) live on the ashram grounds.

I've visited the ashram quite in details some years ago, and the place where the pupils live is quite the opposite side of the ashram ground. They have to cross all the ashram on foot to get to their barracks (the Indian 'village' - true, they even have cows) at the other end of the place.

Maybe that the famous 'Indian village' where Jagdeo lives ....

Is this where 'retired' Jagdeo lives ? Will EV answer that question ?


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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 16:22:58 (GMT)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Amar school is next building
Message:
I apologise to you all, I have just worked out that it has been two years since I was in India and I cannot say for sure that Jagdeo is still living in the Delhi ashram, but I should be able to find out.
In the ashram there is an area ,a group of buildings, called Mahatma Niwas where Mahatmas live or stay during events. For some reason Jagdeo did not live there, but instead had/has a room in another area,the IOC which is where Western premies stay during their service and also VIPs during events. He also had one of the better rooms complete with air conditioning.
It always puzzled me what he was doing there. I asked him once and he said that he was mostly translating but he also spoke occasionally at events in the City.
He lived there all year round and I assumed he was supported totally by the ashram.
As for whether he had access to children...This is a bit worrying,
I am pretty sure there are no children living in the ashram, but twice a week premies come from outside to do service and bring their families. I have seen lots of chidren around, including in the area he lived.
Even if he had moved out soon after I was last there,there is no doubt that he had been living comfortably for several years.
He was a bit of a tyrant with the premies who did service for him nd some of these were quite young girls...maybe 15or16 years old.
There is no doubt that he was in a position of authority and respect and could have taken advantage of this. I hope to God he didn't.
The Amar school is a bit inaccessible from within the ashram and a bit far for him to walk.
Thanks to everyone who has sent me messages..I hope to respond to you all, and Susan I will get in touch, but it sure is time consuming..keeping up with this forum.
Kelly
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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 18:20:16 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Kelly
Subject: But what about the boarding school?
Message:
Was Amar school not a boarding school also?

Where do/did the pupils sleep at night?

The guy who took me to the back of the ashram (where the cows actually live), showed me the buildings where the children used to live, and where would also some families live.

This is quite far from the school away, but I'm sure it doesn't take that long for kids to walk there !

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Date: Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 17:25:33 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: MarianneDB@aol.com
To: Kelly
Subject: Oh Kelly, this is bad news
Message:
Kelly: I want to congratulate your too on your departure from the cult. Your post about your own questioning process and how it led you to finally have the strength to leave will undoubtedly help others to find their way away as well.

The news that Jagdeo has access to young girls is very, very disturbing. Are they the ones who wait on him hand and foot?

So EV, I guess you did not do anything in light of the information you learned here, did you? This is very interesting to me from a legal point of view.

Marianne

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Date: Fri, Dec 01, 2000 at 22:01:52 (GMT)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Oh Kelly, this is bad news
Message:
To simply answer your question...Yes I'm afraid so .
I do believe he has been moved on..and I think it was because of the pressure from this site.
Let's just hope he doesn't have such opportunities where he is now.
Kelly
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