Forum V: Archive
Compiled: Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 15:16:37 (GMT)
From: Dec 18, 2000 To: Dec 27, 2000 Page: 5 Of: 5


Steve Quint -:- Yesterday's The Globe And Mail Front Page Headline -:- Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 15:37:07 (GMT)
__ Sir Dave -:- Yesterday's The Globe And Mail Front Page Headline -:- Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 17:21:46 (GMT)
__ __ Bazza -:- Guess I must be thick Dave -:- Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 18:17:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ Bazza -:- OK maybe its acronym humour? -:- Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 18:24:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Guess I must be sick, Bazza (nt) -:- Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 21:38:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Bazza -:- Dave.....(OT) -:- Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 01:18:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Dave.....(OT) -:- Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 01:32:11 (GMT)
__ Bazza -:- Very sad but totally OT. Why post it? NT -:- Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 16:07:01 (GMT)
__ __ Steve Quint -:- Because It's There. I Thought I Told You To F.O.nt -:- Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 02:48:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ Bazza -:- I'm hard of hearing -:- Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 03:18:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Mr. Free -:- I'm hard of hearing -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 20:03:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Steve Quint -:- Is That A Threat? -:- Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 07:35:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Bazza -:- Not at all,.... -:- Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 16:34:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ janet of venice -:- yes and your post is inappropriate as well -:- Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 08:28:19 (GMT)

kap -:- ex-premie ranch still accepting friends -:- Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 14:16:21 (GMT)
__ Marianne -:- ex-premie ranch still accepting friends -:- Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 18:43:20 (GMT)
__ __ Paul7 -:- ex-premie ranch still accepting friends -:- Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 11:07:59 (GMT)

True Ex-Premie -:- Fuh-Q mahariachi, to infinity -:- Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 12:58:08 (GMT)

Mr. Free -:- Elaine; Ramanandas Phone number... and more -:- Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 09:10:48 (GMT)
__ JohnT -:- Goody! Something to shred! -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 00:00:53 (GMT)
__ Elaine -:- Elaine; Ramanandas Phone number... and more -:- Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 21:04:30 (GMT)
__ C.G. -:- You ain't free! -:- Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 18:11:30 (GMT)
__ Bin Liner -:- Go and be deluded elsewhere -:- Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 22:52:20 (GMT)
__ __ Mr. Free -:- Could you tell me to fuck off man to man in person -:- Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 00:24:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ Cynthia -:- Mr. Free: Message From Scorpio-1 and Scorpio-2 -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 02:26:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ Bin Liner -:- Go and boil your head nt -:- Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 21:47:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ Salam -:- Yes, but -:- Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 13:26:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ Oliver -:- If you don't know where to put NT,..Fuck Off! (nt) -:- Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 09:35:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ Bazza -:- I'd be happy to oblige -:- Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 03:57:29 (GMT)
__ cq -:- er... excuse me Mr Free (easy now ...) -:- Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 21:08:10 (GMT)
__ __ Oliver -:- To cq.................. (OT) -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 06:47:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ cq -:- To Oliver................. (OT) -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 14:20:25 (GMT)
__ __ Mr. Free -:- er... excuse me Mr Free (easy now ...) -:- Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 00:57:17 (GMT)
__ Gregg -:- Yo, Mr.Free! I'm two - TWO - exes in one! -:- Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 17:43:04 (GMT)
__ Salam -:- You are freely stuck in another cult -:- Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 14:07:36 (GMT)
__ Sir Dave -:- You're just another one, Mr 'Free' -:- Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 11:18:48 (GMT)
__ FA -:- Phone number... -:- Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 09:58:02 (GMT)
__ __ Troublemaker -:- Phone number... YOU LIAR! -:- Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 18:27:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ FA -:- Phone number... YOU LIAR! -:- Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 18:54:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Mr. Free -:- Phone number... YOU LIAR! -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 07:31:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Bazza -:- Found it -:- Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 21:08:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ FA -:- Found it -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 00:52:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ The other, other FA... -:- Found it -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 14:32:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ Salam -:- Don't call FA a LIAR you dickhead..nt -:- Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 13:32:10 (GMT)
__ Dave P -:- Slavery, Brainwashing and Gaga-land -:- Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 09:28:24 (GMT)

swami Suchabanana -:- INDICT: Were alleged FATRAT premie affairs abuse?! -:- Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 05:19:10 (GMT)
__ jaNET OF VENICE -:- HOW WOULD HE PICK UP CHICKS--answer -:- Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 15:34:51 (GMT)
__ __ such -:- You missed point; would still be a whore mentality -:- Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 04:51:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ janet -:- You missed point -:- Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 09:48:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ sucha buono -:- yo, WEIRD hippie chick! Wanna meet the Godfather? -:- Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 11:25:19 (GMT)
__ __ such -:- No, cue up: 'Do ya think I'm sexy'. remember? (nt) -:- Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 19:10:12 (GMT)
__ Stonor -:- Ah yes, the '4F Club' ... -:- Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 05:52:00 (GMT)
__ __ sucha -:- Ah yes, the satguru '4F Club', members only -:- Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 09:04:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ Bin Liner -:- God is not mocked......nt -:- Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 23:00:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ Joe -:- Yeah, but aren't you glad you KNOW? -:- Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 17:49:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ Steve Quint -:- M's Audience Is M -:- Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 12:28:09 (GMT)

Barry Clarke -:- I don't get it? -:- Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 03:27:05 (GMT)
__ Gregg -:- Get it? -:- Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 17:29:43 (GMT)
__ janet of venice -:- how i came into this -:- Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 17:04:21 (GMT)
__ Salam -:- I don't get it? It's a long story -:- Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 07:17:57 (GMT)
__ Buzz -:- I don't get it? -:- Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 06:35:52 (GMT)

Suzanne -:- Hi Everyone -:- Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 00:29:09 (GMT)
__ Buzz -:- Hi Everyone -:- Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 06:27:48 (GMT)
__ Elaine -:- Hi Suzanne -:- Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 02:10:20 (GMT)
__ __ Suzanne -:- Thank you -:- Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 18:03:59 (GMT)
__ __ gerry -:- Usual crap from Elaine -:- Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 16:18:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ sb -:- Pss -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 06:48:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ Bin Liner -:- Within or without and shake it all about -:- Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 23:37:40 (GMT)

keef and dave -:- How many hearts did he forsake? -:- Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 00:16:30 (GMT)
__ Buzz -:- How many hearts did he forsake? -:- Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 06:29:34 (GMT)
__ __ Sir Dave -:- How many farts did he make? -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 14:41:21 (GMT)
__ Tonette -:- Plenty. And he calls himself a vegetarian! -:- Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 04:56:30 (GMT)

Mr. Free -:- You can never give this knowledge back -:- Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 23:20:24 (GMT)
__ Joy -:- I remember that guy . . . -:- Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 02:42:38 (GMT)
__ __ Mr. Free -:- I remember that guy . . . -:- Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 17:32:29 (GMT)
__ cq -:- back to whom??? remember, the Maha inherited it. -:- Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 21:28:15 (GMT)
__ __ Mr. Free -:- back to whom??? remember, the Maha inherited it. -:- Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 01:01:59 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- 'this knowledge' -:- Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 12:41:12 (GMT)
__ Youdiditagain -:- You can never give this knowledge back -:- Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 04:26:40 (GMT)
__ __ Stonor -:- Do you read Ludwig Wittgenstein? {nt} -:- Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 04:57:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ Youdiditagain -:- Do you read Ludwig Wittgenstein? {nt} -:- Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 21:26:17 (GMT)
__ Stonor -:- Nor can it be taken away, but what to do with it? -:- Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 04:12:52 (GMT)
__ __ Salam -:- Nor can it be taken away, but what to do with it? -:- Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 14:50:29 (GMT)
__ Elaine -:- You can never give this knowledge back -:- Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 02:34:30 (GMT)
__ Tim G -:- 2 Definitions of God -:- Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 00:01:28 (GMT)
__ __ Joe -:- Third definition: 'Imaginary Friend' (nt) -:- Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 18:12:32 (GMT)
__ __ Chinese proverb -:- 2 perfect men - one is dead the other unborn nt -:- Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 07:45:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ British Proverb -:- 2 billion perfect women- all of them beautiful (nt -:- Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 12:48:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Wise ex-premie proverb -:- 2 Satgurus-both of them phony,one will fall... -:- Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 17:23:38 (GMT)
__ __ Stonor -:- That's great! Did you find or put them togther?(nt -:- Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 04:16:09 (GMT)

Joe -:- Sound Familiar??? -:- Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 20:53:52 (GMT)
__ Rick -:- Sound Familiar??? -:- Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 17:56:06 (GMT)
__ __ janat of venice -:- the entity was Ramtha,JZ knight was the woman -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 10:21:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ Rick -:- thanks, janet, yes, Ramtha (nt) -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 20:26:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ Hal -:- JZ has posted on this forum Janet 6 mths ago ! nt -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 19:14:28 (GMT)
__ Joe -:- Newest Version -:- Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 20:57:38 (GMT)
__ __ la-ex -:- Newest Version/something to add... -:- Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 21:54:28 (GMT)

Mahatma Offanand -:- Saying the truth -:- Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 20:34:31 (GMT)
__ Mahatma Dickinand -:- hi Offy- how're ye doin' long time no see! nt -:- Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 07:50:04 (GMT)
__ Way -:- Wow, are you legit? -:- Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 21:01:27 (GMT)
__ __ Mahatma Offanand -:- I am not following Sat Pal -:- Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 21:25:45 (GMT)
__ __ Sir Dave -:- I bet it's Rob -:- Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 21:18:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ TED Farkel -:- 'That dog won't hunt!', as they say in Alabama... -:- Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 22:02:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- TED, you stopped paying your dues -:- Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 22:43:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- I smell a rat, here, everyone....Mahatma Offanand -:- Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 22:30:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Mahatma Offanand -:- I smell a rat, here, everyone....Mahatma Offanand -:- Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 23:48:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Mahatma Coat -:- I smell a rat, here, everyone....Mahatma Offanand -:- Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 02:50:10 (GMT)

Way -:- 2nd letter from Patrick Halley -:- Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 20:06:48 (GMT)
__ Sir Dave -:- Why is this not considered? -:- Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 21:32:50 (GMT)
__ __ Cynthia -:- Sir Dave: Why is this not considered? -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 00:31:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Cynthia - this is what I'll do -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 02:50:09 (GMT)
__ kap -:- why is no one interested in the fact 2 mahatmas -:- Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 14:39:25 (GMT)
__ __ Sir Dave -:- I believe you Kap and also this -:- Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 21:09:45 (GMT)
__ Bazza -:- LOTU -:- Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 06:21:17 (GMT)
__ __ janet of venice -:- invite pat to come and post here! he's family! -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 09:56:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ Way -:- Re:invite pat to come and post here! he's family! -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 15:48:41 (GMT)
__ cq -:- 'Fakiranand denounced the Guru and the ... -:- Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 21:08:15 (GMT)
__ mary -:- I often play LOTU in slow motion... -:- Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 20:17:51 (GMT)
__ __ Marianne -:- Fakiranand's letter -:- Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 20:35:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ Way -:- I will ask (nt) -:- Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 18:20:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ Salam -:- Fakiranand's letter -:- Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 23:46:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Buzz -:- Fakiranand's letter -:- Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 15:04:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- Something fishy here -:- Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 13:45:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Buzz -:- Something fishy here -:- Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 17:13:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- Fuck all PALs -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 03:04:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- Who is bbj then -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 03:07:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Buzz -:- Who is bbj then -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 06:33:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- Shit. I thought you were bazza. -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 12:56:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Buzz -:- Shit. I thought you were bazza. -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 06:06:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ such -:- no way Bob would have done that, without agya (nt) -:- Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 02:53:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ IHQ Enquirer -:- Word at IHQ put Merino Amico at the scene (nt) -:- Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 04:43:16 (GMT)

C.G. -:- Don't Laugh -:- Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 18:22:58 (GMT)
__ Roger eDrek -:- Propagation Odyssey 2001- Keep Your Mouths Shut! -:- Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 01:19:42 (GMT)
__ __ Stonor -:- But only a machine. -:- Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 05:05:41 (GMT)
__ __ Gordon Showcase -:- Wihning loosers -:- Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 03:02:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ Yu tel them -:- Wihning loosers -:- Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 23:46:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Gordon Showcase -:- He can have me -:- Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 01:20:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Tami -:- Duny bee silee -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 18:51:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ Over -:- Bearing loozers (nt) -:- Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 05:14:52 (GMT)


Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 15:37:07 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Yesterday's The Globe And Mail Front Page Headline
Message:
Newsprint Version Was In 48 Point Font
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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 17:21:46 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Steve Quint
Subject: Yesterday's The Globe And Mail Front Page Headline
Message:
I get it. Very good.

And to those who don't understand Steve Quint's subtle nuances - this is not off topic.

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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 18:17:05 (GMT)
From: Bazza
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Guess I must be thick Dave
Message:
Still don't see the connection between Elk CJD and the cult. Did I get the wrong webpage up perhaps? Help me out and let me in on Steve's nusances will ya?
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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 18:24:39 (GMT)
From: Bazza
Email: None
To: Bazza
Subject: OK maybe its acronym humour?
Message:
You know like, elk - enjoying life with knowledge? Was that it?
You're shitting me right? That's fucking disgusting if that's the case, what kind of sick bastard gets a laugh out of the slaughter of hundreds of wild animals. Tell me I'm wrong, please.
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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 21:38:38 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Bazza
Subject: Guess I must be sick, Bazza (nt)
Message:
x
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Date: Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 01:18:30 (GMT)
From: Bazza
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Dave.....(OT)
Message:
I wasnt referring to you as it happens. Anyway I guess maybe I'm overly sensitive right now as we just lost a family pet we've had for 8 years, because of an incompetent insensitive vet. Sorry it just touched a nerve please don't take it personally.
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Date: Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 01:32:11 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Bazza
Subject: Dave.....(OT)
Message:
You didn't touch a nerve and I was being facetious. I did actually think the headline was funny and I do admit to having a bizarre sense of humour.

Close pets are another thing and I understand how you feel regarding that. I was heartbroken when my friend, my cat got run over in 1983. I lost a good friend there.

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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 16:07:01 (GMT)
From: Bazza
Email: None
To: Steve Quint
Subject: Very sad but totally OT. Why post it? NT
Message:
NT
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Date: Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 02:48:04 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Bazza
Subject: Because It's There. I Thought I Told You To F.O.nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 03:18:01 (GMT)
From: Bazza
Email: None
To: Steve Quint
Subject: I'm hard of hearing
Message:
I live in Ft Lauderdale FL, I'm in the phone book. Come tell me to my face.
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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 20:03:24 (GMT)
From: Mr. Free
Email: None
To: Bazza
Subject: I'm hard of hearing
Message:
That's my line. If you can't say it to my face why say it hidden behind the back.
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Date: Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 07:35:47 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Bazza
Subject: Is That A Threat?
Message:
Because if it is, it's inappropriate here or anywhere else.
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Date: Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 16:34:40 (GMT)
From: Bazza
Email: None
To: Steve Quint
Subject: Not at all,....
Message:
Steve look, you made a fairly aggressive remark there-
'I thought I told you to fuck off'
See I dont go waving my dick around in chat rooms, if someone's got a problem with me I sort it out face-to-face because this kind of online talk is feeble bullshit, frankly.

Remeber how this all started - you posted what appeared to be a genuine cry for help, and I felt your pain and wanted to help so I replied. So, OK, maybe some of it was blabbering crapola, I aint a pro counsellor, I just was writing whatever came out there and then. So how did you respond? Well all of a sudden your pain was gone and you made some pretty crass remarks about what I'd written- which I took exception to considering I actually meant well at the time.

Anyway after that someone emailed me and told me to go easy because you have mental problems, so I let it drop. But that doesnt mean I wont exercise my right to respond now and again, like I did with that stupid insensitive joke E.L.K. headline which in reality concerned the mass slaughter of 1700 wild elk.

'I thought I told you to fuck off' is an aggressive, controlling way of trying to suppress my right to respond and is the very thing which has always put me off chat rooms - ie the phoney bravado this medium encourages. What I said was a way of maybe making you think about how unreal this is - I believe we should act and speak here as if we were in front of our audience in person - that's the way I always have done it and always will.

Anyway Steve its Christmas and this is stupid, pathetic and unnecessary, so why dont we drop it?

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Date: Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 08:28:19 (GMT)
From: janet of venice
Email: None
To: Steve Quint
Subject: yes and your post is inappropriate as well
Message:
think twice, post once.
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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 14:16:21 (GMT)
From: kap
Email: qwerty@pdai.com
To: Everyone
Subject: ex-premie ranch still accepting friends
Message:
yes friends what strikes me is all these seekers have many insights what power we would have if we could get togeather as good souls and share our friendship. i want the ex premie ranch to be a place were people who enjoyed spiritual community could come and never be exploited never be regimented but share spiritual love and caring .i see it as a place to help each other over come our sense of betrayal .a retirement retreat area ,a shelter from materialism and exploitation.if we remove the exploitative master we could enjoy a wonderful dinamic community .so i am inviting those who still try to share to help me organize this wonderful place of gathering , just email me if you are interested in forming a egalitarian community at a ranch in southern utah . bye kap
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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 18:43:20 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: kap
Subject: ex-premie ranch still accepting friends
Message:
Kap: While I appreciate the sentiments you have expressed for creating this retreat, for me, the idea is too close to the whole cult trip to get involved. And, sorry, but the Mormons in Utah scare me.


Marianne

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Date: Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 11:07:59 (GMT)
From: Paul7
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: ex-premie ranch still accepting friends
Message:
Ha Ha Ha, ........ 'Mormons in Utah scare me'...

The whole political seen in Utah seems weird, have you heard Senator Hatch talk?

Maybe CA or OR or ID or HI? maybe we should get together first and talk it out?

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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 12:58:08 (GMT)
From: True Ex-Premie
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Fuh-Q mahariachi, to infinity
Message:
What an asshole we found!

Now exploiting his daughter, the bastard!

mAHARAJI, YOU ASS: YOUR END IS NEAR. You are becoming one more in the bunch of working because of greed 'little' teachers.

You can stop blaming your premies-devotees for the problems of your organization. The problem #1 is YOU!

Again: FUH-Q

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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 09:10:48 (GMT)
From: Mr. Free
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Elaine; Ramanandas Phone number... and more
Message:
Back from Satsang as I said I would do in the earlier post. Skimmed through the usual trash and found you Elaine. Whether your on an information gathering mission or really interested that is your business. Ramananda has nothing to hide. His number (number deleted- see message below) I'm not out to convert people. I think for myself. I know Ramananda was up against what most of us were in the old days, the DLM. He spent many years searching in India tried many things and finally found Shri Hans. He has been loyal to Shri Hans even now.
Most of you I can tell slid off the road somewhere. I know it by your responses and writings. Very few of you have gained the benefits of knowledge. Actually I've grown fond of this 'group' in spite of the negativity and there are some quality people here.
I am not an apologist for M. Whatever he has done is his Karma whether that works for his best interest or against him. We like to believe what we want to believe about OJ Simpson and the murder of his ex. That is his little thing if he was guilty, between the Spirit as witness and himself. Same deal with M. We know what is wrong and this forum is excellent. It belongs. I'm glad it is here. But do we really know what is in M's heart? The spirit knows.
Knowledge is a good path. Service is excellent, it is for the betterment of humanity as a whole and life itself it it's multifarious expressions. It is karma allieviation and the preparing of our hearts in the way of unselfishness and the expanding of our ability to care and share. It is not all about giving M a check every month.
Satsang is good for preparing our minds with wisdom and understanding; in this process all doubts confusions are cleared away. We become CLEAR. This helps to fan the flames of our desire to connect to the source of our life which is, Oh forgive me foe using this word, barf barf (God).
Meditation is the focusing of our consciousness on that life through the clumsy techniques. The techniques don't amount to much of themselves. For instance I hear bells when I'm meditating on the word sometimes yet they are on the left side that I hear them. When I practice the sound technique( Focusing on the right side) I rarely hear anything. The true experiemce is beyond technique.
Why you people stumble over the simple things I don't know. What the hell brought you to this path to begin with? Were you seeking to worship someone or seeking to 'KNOW THYSELF'? AHHH M din't live up to your expectations. OH WELL. HEY!!!!! the knowledge wasn't about M it was up to you to practice and walk on this path. Guess what? You've got free will. You don't have to meditate do service or do satsang. Your the only one who loses when and if you don't.
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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 00:00:53 (GMT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: Mr. Free
Subject: Goody! Something to shred!
Message:
Back from Satsang as I said I would do in the earlier post. Skimmed through the usual trash and found you Elaine. Whether your on an information gathering mission or really interested that is your business. Ramananda has nothing to hide. His number (number deleted- see message below) I'm not out to convert people. I think for myself. I know Ramananda was up against what most of us were in the old days, the DLM. He spent many years searching in India tried many things and finally found Shri Hans. He has been loyal to Shri Hans even now.

Waffle and throat clearing, with a little bit of creeping to Elaine, a soft target.

Most of you I can tell slid off the road somewhere. I know it by your responses and writings. Very few of you have gained the benefits of knowledge.

An empty assertion, made without giving reasons or evidence.

Actually I've grown fond of this 'group' in spite of the negativity

An outright lie (see later) followed by a slur...

and there are some quality people here.

...leavened (like a good propagandist) with a little flattering truth.

I am not an apologist for M.

But the writer then argues M's corner. What a lying toadie!

Whatever he has done is his Karma whether that works for his best interest or against him.

Trite.

We like to believe what we want to believe about OJ Simpson and the murder of his ex. That is his little thing if he was guilty, between the Spirit as witness and himself.

Murder's a little thing, huh? This guy is one sick fucker.

Same deal with M.

Gotta hand it to the guy. Maybe M will kill someone next.

We know what is wrong and this forum is excellent. It belongs. I'm glad it is here. But do we really know what is in M's heart? The spirit knows.

Trite. You could say this about anyone. Hitler was only trying to be helpful, the way he solved the Jewish problem, right? We don't know what was in his heart. Who are we to judge? Wibble dribble dooble foo. Seriously evil rubbish.

Knowledge is a good path. Service is excellent, it is for the bettermentof humanity as a whole and life itself it it's multifarious expressions. It is karma allieviation and the preparing of our hearts in the way of unselfishness and the expanding of our ability to care and share. It is not all about giving M a check every month. Satsang is good for preparing our minds with wisdom and understanding; in this process all doubts confusions are cleared away.

Pious blather, and empty assertion without any reasoned case.

We become CLEAR. This helps to fan the flames of our desire to
connect to the source of our life which is, Oh forgive me foe using this word, barf barf (God).

'WE' ... 'OUR' Who are you talking about? It ain't me, bud.

Meditation is the focusing of our consciousness on that life through the clumsy techniques. The techniques don't amount to much of themselves. For instance I hear bells when I'm meditating on the word sometimes yet they are on the left side that I hear them. When I practice the sound technique( Focusing on the right side) I rarely hear anything. The true experiemce is beyond technique.

THAT life. That's funny. My guess is that our Mr Free is deeply alienated from THAT life. So here he is, wanting to try this life, the real thing, but too coy to admit it, yet.

Why you people stumble over the simple things I don't know.

You don't know who we people are, or what causes each of us to 'stumble'. You just don't. You have delusions of omniscience, brought on, perhaps, by hanging round bullshitters and toadying to them.

What the hell brought you to this path to begin with? Were you seeking to worship someone or seeking to 'KNOW THYSELF'? AHHH M din't live up to your expectations. OH WELL. HEY!!!!! the knowledge wasn't about M it was up to you to practice and walk on this path. Guess what? You've got free will. You don't have to meditate do service or do satsang.

At last! Mr Free's apologia for M (the one he said he wouldn't be making).

Your the only one who loses when and if you don't.

Wrong. Rawat loses if people won't play his game. That's the point. You can take all the good stuff and leave the rest. You are free, remember?

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Date: Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 21:04:30 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: Mr. Free
Subject: Elaine; Ramanandas Phone number... and more
Message:
Just checked in for a minute - so is he in the Yellow Pages? - Does he have some group name? -when I'm out shopping in Denver I go to the ( I forget what it is) Center and eat lunch -kind of like ashram house mother Indian food, but it's a fun atmosphere with nice sitar music usally. It's a nice mellow feeling. So, I'd drop in to this fella's meetings if the timing was right sometime.

I feel the same -M's karma is his - just as anyone's is - that goes for Judas,too. He had a part in the 'Cosmic' Plan - that's for sure. Who am I to say who he was in God's eyes.

However, the rude people here I'm sure will be burning in Hell Everlasting...joking.

Elaine ;)

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Date: Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 18:11:30 (GMT)
From: C.G.
Email: None
To: Mr. Free
Subject: You ain't free!
Message:
Dear Mr. Free,

You aren't free till you leave the Guru. A good teacher would teach you and then say go it alone. Not you are endebted to me for the rest of your life.

I agree the tecniques are nothing. It's where they bring you so why not worship the tecniques - no different than worshipping the guru if you ask me.

I'd been involved for over 30 years. It's taken me over two years here to deprogramme. I used to laugh when people thought I was in a cult. Now I can see the seriousness of all this.

If people are truely happy in the cult there is nothing to say. I know a lot of people in it who are kidding themselves. They just aren't happy, just covering up because M says they're supposed to be. Saving face that's all.

Good luck in all sincerity,

C.G.

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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 22:52:20 (GMT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: Mr. Free
Subject: Go and be deluded elsewhere
Message:
If the spirit knows where Rawat's heart is at , it's one up on me , cause I can't figure it.

Shri Hans , can't figure him either.

Your Ramananda .... never heard of him & don't want to.

Knowing myself ..... that's my business.

You.....fuck off.

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Date: Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 00:24:14 (GMT)
From: Mr. Free
Email: None
To: Bin Liner
Subject: Could you tell me to fuck off man to man in person
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 02:26:57 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Mr. Free
Subject: Mr. Free: Message From Scorpio-1 and Scorpio-2
Message:
Dear Mr. Free,

There are many requests coming in from my sources which indicate the following:

Could you please stop ranting and raving and making a fool of yourself?

And please, would you follow the official rules of the forum and use an ''nt'' if you are not writing text? And an ''ot'' if you are writing about other cults?

That would help, thank you Mr. Free.

This also in from EPO Security Headquarters, Scoprio-1, and Scorpio-2, Chiefs (respectively, of 1, Security, and 2, PC and matters of disruptive posters):

Message: Mr. Free, you are involved in some kind of really weird need to talk about two--that's two CULTS in ONE!

So, by manner of suggestion to you, I hereby suggest, in the greatest syncronization, of course, that you reconsider the subject matter of your posts. Re: the matter of security, I tell you man, do not, I mean, truly, do not threaten our Forum Administrator, nor anyone else here. You don't want to mess with me Mr. Free, and I'm a WO-Man.

We sincerely hope you heed our requests and advice.

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Date: Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 21:47:01 (GMT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: Mr. Free
Subject: Go and boil your head nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 13:26:27 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Mr. Free
Subject: Yes, but
Message:
it depends how big you are.
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Date: Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 09:35:20 (GMT)
From: Oliver
Email: None
To: Mr. Free
Subject: If you don't know where to put NT,..Fuck Off! (nt)
Message:
(nt)
.
.
.
.Merry Xmas. :)
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Date: Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 03:57:29 (GMT)
From: Bazza
Email: None
To: Mr. Free
Subject: I'd be happy to oblige
Message:
Guess I'm in one of those kinda moods tonight. Just need your real name and location bubba.
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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 21:08:10 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Mr. Free
Subject: er... excuse me Mr Free (easy now ...)
Message:
You say:

'Service is excellent, it is for the betterment of humanity as a whole and life itself it it's (sic) multifarious expressions. It is karma allieviation and the preparing of our hearts in the way of unselfishness and the expanding of our ability to care and share.

It is not all about giving M a check every month.'
.
.
.
.


So why give M a check every month?

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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 06:47:52 (GMT)
From: Oliver
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: To cq.................. (OT)
Message:
Have you changed your e-m address? My last was returned 'service unavailable'
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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 14:20:25 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: quartus@postmaster.co.uk
To: Oliver
Subject: To Oliver................. (OT)
Message:
Could be something to do with the holidays. I've posted my address again here, but am unlikely to be online again until after Xmas.

Have a good one!

Chris

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Date: Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 00:57:17 (GMT)
From: Mr. Free
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: er... excuse me Mr Free (easy now ...)
Message:
Who siad give him anything? Read and understand. Just put the resources and time and effort where it does the most good. M's got plenty
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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 17:43:04 (GMT)
From: Gregg
Email: binduesque@yahoo.com
To: Mr. Free
Subject: Yo, Mr.Free! I'm two - TWO - exes in one!
Message:
Meaning that I'm an ex-premie AND an ex-Mahatma Ramanand disciple. After I left the DLM cult in the late seventies, I tried a few other groups cuz I still believed in meditation. One of these was Mahatma R's.

I remember a twenty-four hour Thangsgiving meditation, complete with a vegetarian lentil walnut mush molded into the shape of a turkey.

I stayed with the group for...oh, I don't know, six months. Why did I leave? Not because I discovered some awful truth about who Mahatma R. really was. No, he is a sweet and giving man, as far as I know. I like him.

I just started feeling it was the same old warmed-over Hindu lite stuff I'd been messing with for years, and it just wasn't creating any movement, change, transformation in me. It wasn't, in fact, 'Knowledge' at all. For me.

Again, the guy is undoubtably sincere, cuz he is not getting rich (or laid)because of his meditation group, nor does he abuse his followers in any way. So he is a distant cry from Shri Hans' most famous son!

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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 14:07:36 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Mr. Free
Subject: You are freely stuck in another cult
Message:
Hello, knock knock, anyone there?

What the hell you are talking about? Service, Satasang and meditation. Never heared of this before only from blubber. Sorry should have said blubber and father. Your Rammanda is only a preacher for Shri hans ji.

I think you really need to have a good look at yourself buddy. I do not know what your plans are or what have you done, but you are certainly sounding off. Replacing one guru by another is no solution.

I do not stumble when it comes to someone wanting to fill me with crap, such as the stuff you are saying.

What is your point? If I reject blubber, can you tell me who do I do service too, and what satsang I have to listen too. Well, come on. Do not you think there are a lot of true things being said here, that is your satsang, take it or leave it. This place is doing good to anyone that bothers to look under the surface. It is all free and contribution is voluntery. That is your service. As far as meditation is concerened, some people do meditate and some don't, So stop telling us what to do.

Or are you now worshiping the original ripoff merchant, Shri hans. Maybe you really should go further, because shri hans was an imposter, go and worship the originator of the RADHAsoami movement, no yet still, how about Kabir, he is the mother of all gurus and if you're still not satisfied you can always find krishna, buddha, shiva or who ever suits your needs.

We are not talking about religion neither w about the path to enlightenmet. We are simply saying that gurus suck. Does not matter who they are. We are also trying to informe people, like yourself to wake up to it. But you seem to enjoy it and are trying to give satasang. My advice, fuck off, wash your head with battery acid and come back.

Salam

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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 11:18:48 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Mr. Free
Subject: You're just another one, Mr 'Free'
Message:
Mr Free wrote:

'You don't have to meditate do service or do satsang. Your the only one who loses when and if you don't.'

That's bullshit!

You're just another premie of some other warped guru. You're just another person laying your rightious Hindu trip onto other people.

I can smell something a bit funny round here.

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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 09:58:02 (GMT)
From: FA
Email: None
To: Mr. Free
Subject: Phone number...
Message:
Mr Free,

We don't have many rules here, but one we do have is that we don't publish personal details such as addresses and phone numbers. Because of this, I removed the number in your post above.

FA

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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 18:27:52 (GMT)
From: Troublemaker
Email: None
To: FA
Subject: Phone number... YOU LIAR!
Message:
Then why don't you remove Terry Yingling's?
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Date: Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 18:54:36 (GMT)
From: FA
Email: None
To: Troublemaker
Subject: Phone number... YOU LIAR!
Message:
where is it? I'll take it off- and there's no need to be so rude.
FA
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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 07:31:32 (GMT)
From: Mr. Free
Email: None
To: FA
Subject: Phone number... YOU LIAR!
Message:
Good work FA. I am not troublemaker. And most of this forum is pretty rude. I don't care if you deleted Ramananda's Phone # or not. For those who wanted to examine and expose another aspect of the cult situation I posted the phone#. Or for those who wanted to go there. People really bring out the best of me here sometimes.
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Date: Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 21:08:30 (GMT)
From: Bazza
Email: None
To: FA
Subject: Found it
Message:
Its in inactive thread, in a post by Malibu Mole

btw did you get my email? Anything you can update me on regarding that issue?

Barry

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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 00:52:39 (GMT)
From: FA
Email: None
To: Bazza
Subject: Found it
Message:
yes Bazza, I was looking for the thread you mentioned, and I think the other FA deleted it - two of us are doing it simultaneously at the moment.

I deleted Terry's personal details from the Inactive index.

FA

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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 14:32:33 (GMT)
From: The other, other FA...
Email: None
To: FA
Subject: Found it
Message:
I have to say you two are doing a great job. Just remember to apply special rule 17a (subclause IIIb) whenever seems fit ;)

FA

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Date: Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 13:32:10 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Troublemaker
Subject: Don't call FA a LIAR you dickhead..nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 09:28:24 (GMT)
From: Dave P
Email: None
To: Mr. Free
Subject: Slavery, Brainwashing and Gaga-land
Message:
= Service, Satsang and Meditation
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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 05:19:10 (GMT)
From: swami Suchabanana
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: INDICT: Were alleged FATRAT premie affairs abuse?!
Message:
WHY WOULD M. CHOOSE TO ALLEGEDLY PREY ONLY UPON PREMIE WOMEN FOR SEXUAL FAVORS?

I've been pondering Michael Dettmers' post of 12.17.00 today, and I've figured out Prem's whole sex scam, which is the absolute equivalent of having your priest, professor, boss, doctor, or psychologist prey on you and sexually abuse you.

Check out these scenarios and m.'s viable extra-marital sex options:

1. Michael wrote that he suggested professional escorts to m. - rejected. Why? Most likely rationale: too seedy, risky legally if caught by the police [prostitution and 'john' charges], might catch an STD, and might get entrapped in blackmail scheme, once a pro found out who he was.

2. Michael recommended that m. only screw non-premie women, to avoid complications. M. obviously knew that was not feasible, except for pros, other golddiggers, and/or drug addicts (all of whom might tell, or blackmail him later). Why couldn't m. just pick up regular foxy chicks - like a real dude would - instead of relying on someone to pimp for him?

[The following are fictional, hypothetical pickup situations, and any resemblance to anyone living or dead is purely coincidental]

Imagine this: Lardo walks into a singles bar, 5 feet tall, 200+ blubbery lbs, greasy hair, suit (or Krishna costume), and high squeaky voice. Realistically, how many gorgeous (or even semi-physically attractive) women - even bimbo bottle blondies - would have been attracted to him? Duh. What kind of moves would he have to make?

Possible lines:
'Hi, I'm the Lord of the Universe. Wanna fuck?'
'Hey, wanna go for a ride in my Rolls Royce? I got some good blow -- really good shit.'
'Hi, I can't remember where I parked my Lamborghini. Could you please help me find it?'
'Hey baby, wanna see me materialize some diamonds around your neck?'
'Hey blondie, wanna see the view from my private jet? Are you a member of the mile-high club yet?'
'Hi, toots, wanna watch a video of me fly a kite on the beach?'
'Yo, hot mama, why don'tcha come over and see my collection of pics of the perfect masters?'
'Excuse me, miss, wanna come over to my Malibu mansion for a threesome with me and the missus?'
'Ooh, bay-bee, once you have a REAL fat man, you never go back!'
'Ever been to Mauritius? I'm going there tonight, foxy lady!'
'Wanna come out with me on my 106' yacht and watch the submarine races tonight?'
'So, you like Rod McKuen, huh? Wow, I am a poet at heart, myself.'
'Hey, you are really one hot broad. I'll bet you like to swing, huh? Well, I also like to watch! Speaking of watches, check out this new 18k gold Rolex.'
'You know, when I graduated from 8th grade, Mr. Ravana said I would go very far!'
'By any chance do you like Indian cooking? I am a great chef!'
'Fuck me, bitch, or I'll send you straight to hell!'
'Hello, can I buy you a drink? You like Peter Frampton?'
'Job? Oh, I'm a guru, in fact, the Lord of the whole Universe. No shit, really!'
'So, you call this music? I am a composer myself.'
(Wearing Krishna clown outfit) 'Happy Hallowe'en! Ever hear legend of gopi chicks who like to fuck?'
'Yo, fly-girl, Wanna dance?'

Lardo at the Santa Moncia pier:
'Hey, weird hippie chick, wanna see me do the world's biggest bellyflop? no? ok. You like good weed? I got some, right here.'

Lardo at the airport: 'Miss, you are one fine-looking blonde flight attendant - if you don't mind my saying so, you have a very nice ass. Incidentally, wanna see the world's biggest custom pilot seat? no? Well, ever flown on a G-5 before?'

At the hotel: 'Yes, could you please send someone up right away to make the bed in my presidential suite... ...So, you're the maid! Want a big tip?'

In the Mercedes, cruising the high schools, 'Hey, blondie cheerleader, you want a ride home?'

Nope, it just wasn't gonna happen -- and Lardo knew it.

Ergo: the Final Solution:

3. Procure unsuspecting Premie blonde devotees. Why?:
a)They loved, worshipped, and trusted him, and believed he was the Lord of the Universe, the messiah, God in the flesh - and they would do anything, ANY thing, for him;
b) he could have his pick of practically all the beautiful premie women;
c) Free is a very good price;
d) minimal risk - could easily get others to do the dirty work for him, then blame them if there's a problem (s.o.p.);
e) no need for clumsy pickup lines or wasting time - just get down to the nitty gritty;
f) x-rate them first; don't ask, and don't tell;
g) plausible deniability lines if she declines or gets upset:
she was totally in her mind; bongo premie; spaced-out premie I couldn't save from drugs; divine lila; was just testing to see if you would break ashram rules; sorry, it was an honest mistake of the gofer; oh, I thought you meant you wanted to service me -- not do service; I was just trying to help work out your bad karma, etc.; I was only trying to teach you the 5th technique.
h) plausible deniability if she tells: she was totally in her mind; bongo premie; spaced-out premie I couldn't save from drugs; bull shit - she's lying.
i) 4-F Club.

Having others procure his trusting blond devotees (in #3) as sexual concubines for his perverse pleasures would, in fact, constitute blatant abuse of his office, his position as spiritual master, as perfect master, as perfect bastard, whatever.

Now, speaking of bastards, why would Fatrat allegedly order a premie mistress to have any abortion(s)?
a) too messy -- he's married;
b) otherwise, kid could be used as blackmail someday;
c) a kid could claim legal rights of heir;
d) no child support;
e) very easy to prove paternity with DNA test now;
f) bad p.r., if anyone ever found out;
g) could blow his whole trip;
h) plausible deniability

My Conclusions:
I recommend that past or past premie women [devotees] who were victimized this way (or approached for sexual favors by the Lard), Please, consult a counselor and an attorney, or please contact cooperating attorneys by emailing this website.

Thank you.

Peace,

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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 15:34:51 (GMT)
From: jaNET OF VENICE
Email: None
To: swami Suchabanana
Subject: HOW WOULD HE PICK UP CHICKS--answer
Message:
He coulda done it. he had several plausible attractants that would interest women on first encounter:
power corruptsand absolute power corrupts absolutely

henry kissinger said it best'Power is the ultimate Aphrodesiac'
He could easily pick up any female he wanted, at least in Los Angeles, with some of the bait lines you postulate he could hold out that would work:

'Maharaji on the Make':a plausible and truthful come-on, with just the right amount of sensitivity, lonliness, riches and kinky non committment:

at the airport, to a fine-looking blonde flight attendant in the airport bar:

'Hello, can I buy you a drink?'

'-You like Peter Frampton-?'

'I am a composer myself. Do you call this music? '

'So, you like Rod McKuen, huh? I am a poet at heart, myself.'

'By any chance do you like Indian cooking? I am a great chef!'

'-Ever been to Mauritius? I'm going there, on my 106' yacht tonight.'

'Wanna come out with me tonight?'

'Hey,I got some good blow...--really good shit.

'Wanna go for a ride? over to my Malibu mansion, in my Rolls Royce, for a threesome?'

'...I like to watch!...'

' Speaking of watches, check out this new 18k gold Rolex.'

'come'

And by this point, she can't resist the invitation, so laden with intrigue --a mansion, a Rolls, a yacht,the island of Mauritius, free dope, free food, money on everything, the kinkiness, the jet setting casualness, and with a poet's soul and a composer's sensitivity and passion...and a domestic flair to boot!

and as he grandly pays the check, he escorts her out the door into the parking lot, where he feigns being momentarily lost, and whispers in her ear in vulnerable perplexity:

'I can't remember where I parked my Lamborghini. please help me find it?'

and she scans the lot, in hungry fascination, looking for such a car in the vicinity. He makes as if he's vaguely remembered, and masterfully steers her in a direction, making more small talk, as they walk off into the night...

'Are you a member of the mile-high club yet?'

'-ever flown on a custom G-5 before?'

'wanna see the view from my private jet? ... ...

Cue up Sade's 'Smooth Operator' and fade to black...

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Date: Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 04:51:50 (GMT)
From: such
Email: None
To: jaNET OF VENICE
Subject: You missed point; would still be a whore mentality
Message:
You wrote:

'henry kissinger said it best'Power is the ultimate Aphrodesiac''

also,

'And by this point, she can't resist the invitation, so laden with intrigue --a mansion, a Rolls, a yacht,the island of Mauritius, free dope, free food, money on everything, the kinkiness, the jet setting casualness'.

Janet, maybe that kind of shit REALLY turns YOU on, but:

If you had actually grokked the fullness of my post, you would have noticed the context and tone of my references to golddiggers, pros, and drug addicts r.e. as potential sex partners for a one-night stand or affair. The pickup lines were a joke, my dear. Don't you get it? Duh!

So, what if there are plenty of cheap sluts who will fuck a guy wearing a Rolex who drives an expensive car, even though they're not at all otherwise attracted to him. That was NOT the point -- at all! I was talking about him trying to pick up self-respecting, together, attractive young women -- not goldiggers, addicts, hos, pros, bimbos -- using his toys or the only lines he could probably use. Lardo just walking into a bar is not going to attract the attention of a beautiful non-premie female. Got it? I gigged at clubs for decades - I've seen it all. He ain't no stud. Do you need glasses, or what?

Look, I don't know about you (that's your personal business), but I don't permit myself to associate with anyone who would fuck someone just because that person has a fancy car or yacht - or a bunch of money. If you read Dettmers' post, M. wasn't proposing commitment or marriage, he just wanted to experiment sexually with other women. He just wanted to fuck around. Got it?

Knowing or sensing that, only a cult-blinded premie, or a female with a fucking whore mentality, would have been drawn to him. Charisma? Ultimate Aphrodisiac? Are you still a brainwashed gopi gurupie -- or What?

Without the wealth and trinkets accumulated with the premies' money, he would have been very lucky to snag Roseanne Barr!

I take it you haven't been to the fashionable, trendy places on the planet. M.'s a dud as a dude - a fucking joke, actually. Except for ho mentality types or brain-washed premies - he's got zip appeal for attractive, together women who have any values or self-respect. Got it now?! He wasn't going to score on his own attractiveness, personality, or merits with beautiful, non-ho women.

The point was: that's precisely why m. went for the young blonde premie women. He knew as the presumed Lard of the Universe his success rate would be a virtual lock. Even then, he was so personally inept and insecure as a male that he had to scam and put up subordinates to pimp and procure for him - what a fucking loser! Got it now, Janet?!

Now, the MAIN point is: if they hadn't been brainwashed by him and his cult to believe that he was probably their Lard Almighty (or their personal divine saviour in the flesh), what ethical, self-respecting, beautiful young premie women would have EVER degraded themselves and fallen for his bullshit sex scam? Therefore, he scored only by falsehood -- by deceit, abusing and degrading his position as their spiritual master. THAT's how he scored.

Did your shrink or counselor ever try to seduce or screw you? It would have been the same exact thing. m. apparently has no fucking scruples whatsoever, got it? That - right there - makes him unfit to be anyone's spiritual teacher.

Now, do you finally understand? You really try my patience. Sorry to be so pissy tonight, but if you're trying to correct or make a point with me, then you better have your entire brain screwed on straight and aligned first!

As a childhood victim of longterm abuse myself, this subject of m.'s patent abuse of office to spiritually rape and procure gullible premie women for his lust is also a very, VERY sore point with me - and anyone trying to debate or engage with me on this subject is just begging to get their stupid ass kicked!

Now, that I've gotten that out of my system - Goodbye.

Peace,


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Date: Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 09:48:40 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: such
Subject: You missed point
Message:
M didnt want together women for a relationship. he wanted what my male street friends call 'gettin some strange'. the only twat he knew was his wife's. he was bored with the same-o same-o.

youre not kicking my ass--I'm over here. you're kicking the ass of some shadow on the wall. all the things you yelled about are unnecessary to tell me. i'm a woman. i knew all this long before you did. you'll never know what it's like to be one of us, you can only try to imagine.

i cut and pasted my scenario to illustrate that if he had wanted to try his hand at going out and picking up some strange, he could have done it easily here in los angeles at any time since I stopped in and looked around in 1975. nothing's changed. it isnt whoring as you think of it. it isnt golddigging as you think of it.. what i painted is mind numbingly the way los angeles is. i didnt say i liked it, or i approved of it, but i myself have been out doing nothing special of an evening, and have found myself caught up in scenarios just like these.

true stories from my life, to show you:1975, I'm walking to satsang on larchmont blvd, and at a stoplight, a guy in a high price sportscar calls to us and asks us if we wanna take a ride up to the Playboy mansion with him for a party he got an invite to by way of his office. We laugh and wave. He's nice and not sleazy. He says he was told he could bring along as many as he wanted to and he figured we looked like we could use the free food. We look at one another and ask if he's for real. he shows us the tickets out the window. we all discuss it. i bow out because i dont know a way home once up there. two of the others decide to get in and go. later they tell me it was a trip and describe the night to me.

1976 a guy offers to drive a bunch of us home from satsang. he's new, he's interested. he drops off the first one and then suddenly remembers he needs to stop off at his house in the hills by certain hour, but then he'll finish driving us home. we end up at this aamzing place above the city lights, talking about George Harrison's darkhorse studios and he offers me a job at their office doing catchup filing if I'd like the work. I'm touched. I could use the money but i dont have a car. This guy freely shares the best of everything he has in his home, bought with money from success in the music industry. Its not a con, it's not sleaze, it's life in L A.

1982-I'm visiting my sister in the country club district. she's working late at the club so i go for a long midnight walk alone in the steets. At one house, the door is standing wide open, light pouring out. a fellow steps into the dorway and sees me and beckons me in. gives me a tour of this fabulous house, shows me all this art he's purchased. he isn't trying to get me to fuck. He just invited me in because he's reveling in these pieces and wants to see what i think of them. We have something to drink and talk on his patio till late. I finally excuse myself and he sees me to the gate.

1995-I go out to dinner at the rainbow room with my 3 roommates. the other girl is reputed to be an illegitimate daughter of mafia boss John Gotti. at the restaurant, the maitre D' appears to recognize her and greets her like Family. once seated, an odd character with clear underworld mannerisms sidles up to the table and starts buying her all kinds of items at his expense, from the kitchen, to savor and indulge in. the rest of us play things very carefully and neutral, being congenial and accepting his gestures with his urging. he seems intent on spoiling her, and we are just observing. when we finish the food, he insists we come to his house, in his car. he is also intrigued with my boyfriend, a sinister character, with a past in st louis, known as Dragon. i know about his former life there. he has told me some of what he knew in that underworld. this fellow Rocky seems most amused and interested in both Dragon and the Gotti girl. We accept his ride and end up at a tiny house not far from the club in an ordinary neighborhood. there are others there, club people, and the mood is strange and subdued and not real ordinary. The girl is relaxed and enjoying herself to the fullest. I'm reserved but carry myself allright. The girls date is the congenial, outside the boundaries sort, anarchistic, poetic, ironic, up for adventure and unafraid. Dragon is rigidly controlling himself. there are drugs and alcohol present, He makes it known tersely that he will not partake and will not brook any effort to persuade him. 'Rocky' finds him tremendously entertaining and at some point asks him to slice the filter on his cigarette in half with the sword Dragon is wearing hung at his side under his trenchcoat. Dragon draws and kneels at once, in upright chivalry style, and with surgical grace, halves said filter and stands once again. His intense eyes never blink.

we waste an hour or two in this bizarre atmosphere, sampling what we will of the various hospitalities offered. there is drink. there is dope. there is blow. we wonder what this is all leading up to.We are sure Rocky is full on Mafia. He makes jokes, she makes jokes, her date makes jokes. Rocky asks dragon if he still Works. dragon understands the reference and replies that he works only for himself now. rocky chuckles and passes around the wine again.after this tense atmosphere drags on for a few hours, i tire and announce irritably that i cant see the point of this, and im going to leave if this is all it is. i go outside and start down the sidewalk, agitated. dragon follows me. we talk. he returns nside and announces that its time for us to leave. rocky is all apologies and opens his car . he gallantly returns us to the restuarant door and says his goodnights. he kisses the girl. she tells him to send her love to her father if he can. and we get on the bus and come home to our fleabag apartment and get out of our clubbing clothes.`

in los angeles, it is just one more night. it is the usual. so you see--Maharaji with his rolex and his jet and his malibu mansion are no big deal here. the scenario i painted could happen any night of the week and he would find females intrigued enough to take a chance and go see. they would not be whores or golddiggers. they would be doing what is typical for L A.-- accepting an adventure for the evening, to go see what happens.

all i did was edit it to real life.

i did it to show that he could, indeed get out and meet and entertain unpremie females, without resorting to the cowardice and abuse of trust that he asked michael to arrange for him.

of course i share your disgust at what he did.! you can stop yelling now.i already know.

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Date: Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 11:25:19 (GMT)
From: sucha buono
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: yo, WEIRD hippie chick! Wanna meet the Godfather?
Message:
Yo -- weird Venice hippie chick: Wanna meet the Godfather?

Yeah, I know all about John Gotti. And you don't really know shit about that stuff, Janet. If you did, you wouldn't be glamourizing it; you would SHUT the fuck up, capisce? 'amerta', got it? You obviously aren't Siciliano, are you? Parla italiano, bambina?

When m. and Raja ji primped and posed as gangsters in 'And It is Divine', that was such a fucking joke! [although m. is definitely a spiritual gangster]

For your information, in my earlier days, I used to be the star attraction at the flagship establishments of Signor Carlo Gambino (the late Godfather) and his sons, before I received knowledge. You don't want to even fucking know -- but The Family ain't no stupid fuckin' LA poser party game for hippie freaks, honey.

You ever seen somebody whacked, their brains blown out, sprayed all over the interior of a car? That's what happened to my pal, Little Tommy... It isn't pretty or funny, or some freaky LA chick party schtick.

You wrote:
'in los angeles, it is just one more night. it is the usual. so you see--Maharaji with his rolex and his jet and his malibu mansion are no big deal here. the scenario i painted could happen any night of the week and he would find females intrigued enough to take a chance and go see. they would not be whores or golddiggers. they would be doing what is typical for L A.-- accepting an adventure for the evening, to go see what happens.'

Maybe 'usual' and 'typical' for Babylon, and for one weird fuckin' hippie chick. Yeah, you're right about one thing - I don't know what it's like to be female -- especially a burnt-out freaky chick. And you obviously don't know shit about being a dude, either. So, don't waste my fucking time, ok.

You're just too weird for me, Janet, to even talk to here.

Ciao.

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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 19:10:12 (GMT)
From: such
Email: None
To: jaNET OF VENICE
Subject: No, cue up: 'Do ya think I'm sexy'. remember? (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 05:52:00 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: swami Suchabanana
Subject: Ah yes, the '4F Club' ...
Message:
Could you explain that concept for me?

And good advice at the end.

('Swami' suchabanana?!)

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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 09:04:30 (GMT)
From: sucha
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: Ah yes, the satguru '4F Club', members only
Message:
Anna,

Gee, thanks a lot. [I thought you'd never ask.]

It's an old, crude male chauvinist pig expression someone told me about in high school, which I found most appropos, in this case (the way m. apparently treated his secret premie harem):

4 F Club:
Find 'em,
Feel 'em,
F--- 'em,
and Forget 'em.

I think that expression sums up the Loving Lard's intent, attitude, and actions, at least as they've been portrayed for us by Michael Dettmers yesterday. (excepting Monica's case. When I used to do a/v production at LA events, I think I recall her now, too.)

I am more than disgusted and upset, at this point. All this sick stuff coming out now, cumulatively, is just way beyond what I ever - no, NEVER - could have even imagined.

If there are any premies or ex-premies out there who have more information, documents, or other materials about the sexual exploitation, the money diversions, or any other pertinent incriminating stuff, please contact the email address at this site or forum. [Frankly, I think it's time to kick some butt, legally and in the media.] For immediate attention, why not just label it: 'SHIT - RETURN TO SENDER.' Many premies, much shit.

For those of you PAMs who knew, but kept silent, how do you feel now? How do you sleep at night? How do you sleep at night?!

Turns out the 'rotten vegetables' were in m.'s closet, all along. To do all this crap, using the name and mantle of God.

I really need to go and pray now for guidance. I devoted my life and oriented my whole cosmology for this little ----?!

I hope I'm doing the right thing with these posts. Poor Pat Halley looks like a saint now, compared with Maharaji! Who would have thought it, right?!

I actually feel very badly for even seeming to judge anyone (God knows, we've all fallen short in this life), but I feel so saddened and betrayed, so utterly and awfully betrayed -- on behalf of ALL of us who have ever been premies.

Well, now there's one less obstacle on the path of Truth and Light! The price of wisdom is costly, indeed.

LOL to you -- and all of us. We truly need it! G'night.

Peace,

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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 23:00:31 (GMT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: sucha
Subject: God is not mocked......nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 17:49:42 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: sucha
Subject: Yeah, but aren't you glad you KNOW?
Message:
The truth really does set you free. I guess that's the one thing on those old Millennium posters that is actually true.
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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 12:28:09 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: sucha
Subject: M's Audience Is M
Message:
Yes, such, the 'evil mind' that m has talked about for so many years is none other than his own. Psychologists call this projection. It only took me 28 years to figure out this simple fact. When he talks, he talks to no one other that himself. He is his own audience.

What a motherfucker.

Steve

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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 03:27:05 (GMT)
From: Barry Clarke
Email: acousticoutlaw@hotmail.com
To: Everyone
Subject: I don't get it?
Message:
You know folks?
My friend Jim(you all know who I'm talking about!).He tells me all about this whole experience he's had with this fat little guru man who's claimed he's God etc....in the past, and suckerd many nice normal people into believing just that. I just don't get it. My friend Jim is a very intellegent, focussed, individualist,(probably a better speller than myself!)etc..etc..
How in the hell could you people get sucked into beleiving one human being. This little average looking chubby wubby indian could be God? What the hell did this guy have that could lead you all down this road to where you are now-free and indipendent.
Yourselves, unsure, ustable, unsafe, just the way you should be.
Revel in your insecuity. That's what I say. We are her to learn.
How can you learn if you never feel pain? Someone tell me what it was that this little normal indian man did that was so god like that you all would follow him so blindly,then spend the rest of your days trying to bring him down?
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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 17:29:43 (GMT)
From: Gregg
Email: None
To: Barry Clarke
Subject: Get it?
Message:
It is an enigma, isn't it: that many of the people who bought into the Guru Maharaj Ji myth have been otherwise bright, creative and even individualistic folks. I'm not sure I get it either, although maybe to some shrink out there it's perfectly obvious.

Answers to your question might lie in some of the stories such as Janet's below...you can click on 'Journeys' above to read more stories. (Including mine.)

BTW, most of us here have hardly devoted our days to 'bringing him down.' I've been out of the group for twenty years and hardly give that poor (rich) fool a thought...unless I'm on the 'net and I'm through with my other favorites...Arts and Letters Daily, Brunching Shuttlecocks, Cruel Site of the Day, e-mail and stocks (ouch). Then it's on to ex-premie.org to see what the latest brouhaha is about!

Of course, if Maharaji's cult finally withered away, most of us would be happy, and we would feel that the internet's free flow of information (esp. this site) had contributed to the disillusionment of many well-meaning victims of His old-as-time scam.

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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 17:04:21 (GMT)
From: janet of venice
Email: None
To: Barry Clarke
Subject: how i came into this
Message:
for me, I was a a point where college was pointless, TM gave no explanation of what the meditation was doing to me, my alcoholic mother convinced my father i should be sent to a shrink in NYC, and told me not to come home until i could be happy. i finished the last shrink visit with a clean bill of health and had nowhere to go.so i sat down and waited. the elevator operator saw me and asked if id like to go see Rennie Davis of the chicago 7 speak about This Knowledge for free in Greenwich Village that night. I said yes. He took me. Rennie looked blasted, eyes like diamonds. Radiated peace and epiphany as he spoke of this experience he received . I was transfixed. The audience was soft and patient, very gentle and caring to each other. raggletaggle but there were no fights. No grating New York ego. They had something i wanted. I went to the ashram next day. Saw this guys picture. The eyes completely recognized me, and i, them. This guy knew! Whatever it was, I had been probing into the eyes of each person I met, looking for it, and everyone shrank away except this guy! He knew! He knew me, and he knew IT. As far as I was concerned, I was now willing to hang around, wait anywhere, go anyplace they told me to, until I got whatever it was this guy had, that he'd shown those people and that he'd shown to Rennie. I didnt have to go home--so why not. I had carte blanche, so i didnt have to trouble about it.my schedule was a blank page.

So Iwent with the elevator guy to philadelphia the following day. traveled around wherever we were told to be for the next 3 weeks. everything was provided. got the initiation. went home long enought to explain and pack a bag and leave again. went into NYC to dedicate my life to spreading this Knowledge, to bring peace on earth in our lifetime.

I was 20.

It was good for about 6 months. we had a suposedly global exposition at the astrodome to tell, invite, urge the world to recieve Knowledge and reach Peace..reality set in. huge debt, piddly turnout. watergate hit. the debt we ran up at the astrodome changed the whole picture. depression set in. the veneer of peace was betrayed by a holier than thou superiority attitude. there was no real love anymore. the gentleness faded, into regimentation and duty and guilt. the earlier ideals were replaced by new ones, confusing us. we didnt know why, what to make of them. we hung in there, blaming it on ourselves, made to feel that it was our fault, our lack, our egos, our minds, that were the problem.

all that you see being made public on this site was deliberately kept away from us. what we were told and what we were given to see and hear was one reality. what was really going on was the other. some snapped early and quit. others hung on despite all the agony. the inside doesnt look like the outside.

it is said that if you put a rat in a cage with three levers, and load one with food that always delivers, the rat will try it out until he is set in his knowing that food will always come out, and he will then only go to it if he wants food, other wise he wil go on with other things.

likewise, if you give him a lever that puts out nothing, he will try it until he's convinced that it does noth kng, and he will ignore it forever after.
but if you set that 3rd lever up to deliver sometimes, and to yield nothing sometimes, at random unpredictable patterns, the rat will become obsessed day and night, going back to it and working the lever, continually, trying to figure out what brings the reward and when, and what he has to do right, to get it to reward him with what he wants.

being a premie was like that. if you had even one whammy of an experience with Knowledge in your lifetime, it was enough to make you try and try, day in and day out, to get it to happen again. you could put in literally years, trying to get it to come the first time,or come again, if you had one once.

why do people stay in bad marriages? or lousy relationships? hope? familiarity? fear of letting go? we were abused. abused people think its all their fault,. the abuser tells them so. alcoholics, batterers, workaholics, --its their MO. it takes a long time and a lot of pain to push the victim to the point of courage to leave.maybe it isnt to save themselves. it might be to save their kids. or it might take some act so big it finally breaks their denial. something catastrophic or something small. a word. a tv show. a movie. a song. a book. someone else's life.(OJ?) a fire. a car crash.a gun. being robbed. being raped. being evicted. being pimped. jail time. a way out.a strong friend. new information. the scales falling from one's eyes in a moment, when one suddenly SEES.

there is a mapped cycle to abuse. a periodicity to it.

why does a beaten dog come back? why does it submit? why doesnt it run away?

there is approval and reward, alternated with beatings and shamings and pain. the rat lever again. unpredictable. no sense to it. good measured out to keep the victim from leaving, abuse resumed when the victim decides to stay on. round and round. just enough reward to make the victim think if they can just do it right, everything wll be ok.

and it never will be ok. because the abuser abuses. it's what they choose to do instead of owning what's theirs and seeing others as real and separate persons.

it looks simple from the outside, but once you're inside, you keep working to make the award appear that felt so good the first time.

being rewarded all the time creates security, dependability, safety, stability, and sound health.

getting no reward leads to abandonment, disinterest, negligence, dismissing, disposal, irrelevance.

but erratic and unknown reward induces obssession, preoccupation, confusion, anxiety, dependency, and illness.
why dont abused kids leave their parents? why dont abused dogs run away? why do battered wives cling to their husbands? why do spouses refuse to leave their drinkers?
why don't devotees leave their cults?
have you got enough information now to understand???

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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 07:17:57 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Barry Clarke
Subject: I don't get it? It's a long story
Message:
Meet me at the pub and we can discuss it over some beer and nuts.

Salam Recently converted to grog

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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 06:35:52 (GMT)
From: Buzz
Email: None
To: Barry Clarke
Subject: I don't get it?
Message:
went inside via the techniques,felt a nice feeling,correlated the feeling to him,cuz he told us that and the feeling was good,had forgotten that the feeling had always been there and nothing to do with him apart from he knew some old yoga techniques to go inside.
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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 00:29:09 (GMT)
From: Suzanne
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Hi Everyone
Message:
Just wanted to thank everyone once again for this website. It has been a real lifesaver for us. It's really helpful to hear what a bastard Maharaji really is. How could we put our faith in someone like that? We just didn't know, but we did suspect. Something just wasn't right, and thanks to all of you, my husband and I got support for what we were feeling and we were able to get out of it, and we are so much happier. It's like a big weight got taken off of us. It was just so exhausting trying to repress our feelings and thoughts in order to be premies.

Most of the premies in our area don't know we have made the break, but we don't come around anymore and I think they are suspecting. I don't see any need to be confrontational, but I did have a conversation with a close friend of mine who is also a premie. It was kind of amazing, because she seemed so relieved to be able to talk about the doubts she has been having. It was a little tense, but I wanted her to know I cared about her and I wanted to be supportive.

Thanks to all of you and Merry Christmas!

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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 06:27:48 (GMT)
From: Buzz
Email: None
To: Suzanne
Subject: Hi Everyone
Message:
Good to know you are finding freedom from m's conditioning,remember he is not responsible for your life,he's just following an age old superstition.
You don't need him,he's got his own stuff to sort out,what he professes to teach has got nothing whatever to do with real Love,thats inside and you certainly don't need him to feel it.
Have a great Christmas free from bullshit.
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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 02:10:20 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: Suzanne
Subject: Hi Suzanne
Message:
Hi,
I resently had a friend call me with alot of confusion about Maharaji. She was very confused and kind of hanging out on a limbo so to speak. I don't know if this will help and maybe others will disagree... but what I told her in her moment of desparation was to remember that what M said may have been parroting what many masters have said - that the anwser is indeed within ----and tho you may be in limbo and very confused ----rest assured his message along with many others is that the answer or the source of peace and happiness or 'whatever you may call it 'is indeed found within'.
So basically, his words were 'ok'.So, Go inside and continue to
pray or meditate. The source of great knowledge is within inside. She was very lost... and I personally think it is very important in moments of feeling lost after years of devotion to Maharaji to know that it is proper and right to go within...M did show us a way to go within --- tho he may have claimed it as his exclusive property or something... it is still a viable method.

In Ruth Montgomery's book 'A World Beyond' Arthur Ford says
something like' a day not in meditation or prayer is a waste.'
So - forget about Maharaji - but I would suggest - don't throw out the baby with the bath water.

My two cents...
Elaine

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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 18:03:59 (GMT)
From: Suzanne
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: Thank you
Message:
Elaine,

I don't feel confused or on a limb anymore. I did feel that way, but things are getting clearer now. I feel like I can breathe again.

My friend, like yours, feels like she is in limbo and very confused. I think that's because both she and your friend are trying to hold onto Maharaji and he is toxic. When I was doing that, I was in limbo and confused, too. But not anymore.

Suzanne

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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 16:18:09 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: Usual crap from Elaine
Message:

What shitty advice Elaine, 'Go within.' What the fuck do you think this poor premie person has been attempting to do for the last thirty years? That's right Elaine, attempting to 'go within.'

Only--IT'S NO ANSWER !!! If it were any sort of an answer to anything, then why the turmoil and painful confusion this person is experiencing?

The source of great knowledge is within inside

PROVE IT !!!

This is nothing other than an old hindu myth. What has meditation ever done for ANYBODY ???

And meditation can be HARMFUL. That's a fact.

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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 06:48:18 (GMT)
From: sb
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Pss
Message:
I hardly read for lack of time. Have she changed any? Oh, curiosity. I hope so.

Hey you g: Hi

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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 23:37:40 (GMT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Within or without and shake it all about
Message:

Who knows.

The important thing is to get free of the Rawat personality cult 1st , & then to work out ones new relationship with the infinite .

Not an easy thing to do as I'm finding myself.

I appreciate that a man with a 10' arsehole (joke) , wouldn't think much of going inside as a remedy for the human condition , but I do agree with Elaine that 'throwing the baby out with the bathwater' is not a good idea .


ps I still think Dettmers is a scumbag.

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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 00:16:30 (GMT)
From: keef and dave
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: How many hearts did he forsake?
Message:
How many hearts did this looney break?
Just discussin' this site with Dave - another x premie
and we remembred bein in brussels dec 89' where we both
broke down for our Master.......
what a soul dissolving time that was, we both feel (now)
destroyed when the leads lifted from or eyes (mine only start of this year!).Thanks for this site,,,,
keep up the sincerity!
keef & dave U.K
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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 06:29:34 (GMT)
From: Buzz
Email: None
To: keef and dave
Subject: How many hearts did he forsake?
Message:
Hi keef and dave,whereabouts in the uk you from?
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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 14:41:21 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Buzz
Subject: How many farts did he make?
Message:
Yeah I know - I'm quite mad.
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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 04:56:30 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: keef and dave
Subject: Plenty. And he calls himself a vegetarian!
Message:
He dines on hearts and souls. That's his talent.

A thief in the night.

Kinda like a hyena. He laughs all the way to the bank.

Thank God he only got a small part of me but my very best part. He left enough that I've found quite a resilency....hearts do mend. Souls never forgive. My true master, God, knows the likes of this human, M. That has been his real mistake, trying to dupe God.

I know I have to answer for things I've done but I surely would not want to answer for M's actions.

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Date: Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 23:20:24 (GMT)
From: Mr. Free
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: You can never give this knowledge back
Message:
Here in the Denver area resides Mahatma Ramananda. Once I think named Trivananda(?) when he was with DLM. Tonight is Satsang and I may go.
After being held in a hotel hostage to the DLM who threatened him with deportation he decided to break away from DLM. I found him here after I got back from California, he was teaching Yoga and meditation classes.
I was very pleased for some years as he was a working man who lived in a humble house and drove an older model car. And he gave Satsangs and taught yoga classes. Also he inititated people into knowledge. He was initiated by M's father. The bank account of the Divine knowledge and meditation center is roughly in the nieghborhood of 35 to 300 dollars. No one is getting rich albeit now he has moved into a bigger and better house costing $200,000+. My question is of course why bigger and bigger, though he has 5 children some of whom are on thier own. Still no new cars around. And being in management for so many years at King Soopers he probably makes good money between his Indian wife and himself. That is why he was able to get the house.
He is very devoted to Shri Hans, and teaches as Shri Hans taught. He is very acessible.Some Hindu theology and the like angers me some of it I just think is false, and some of it I think is partially true. As deliberately rude as I have been over the years he always finds something kind to say about me. By being rude I mean showing up late for satsang, after all the songs of praise to Guru and Shiva etc. are sung. It is principle to me rather than the desire to be rude. Even Yeshua Messiah in his time never begged or asked for worship. The Essenes teach a far more, I hope and think, accurate teaching based on what came from the dead sea scrolls.
The violence of the various scriptures angered me and rendered them or that part of them unacceptable. How refreshing that the sea scrolls say the lord God taught that we are to take not the life of any living thing. More to be studied.
Time is late so I must go. More about Mahatma Ramanda later, and the cult link, and other interesting tidbits, including a runin with another Aquarian Master in the early 70's. Mind fucks...
TO BE CONTINUED
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Date: Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 02:42:38 (GMT)
From: Joy
Email: None
To: Mr. Free
Subject: I remember that guy . . .
Message:
He was a mahatma in Denver circa 1976, if this is the same one. He fell from grace for some reason or other and M sent him to work at Rainbow Grocery. This bothered him so much that one Sunday evening he strode up the center aisle of the satsang hall (Sunday nights was always a big gathering -- there were lots of us who only went on Sunday nights in 1976, the 'spaced out' year) -- anyhow, he strides up the center aisle unannounced, with a very purposeful manner, climbs onstage and grabs the mike. He states to all that he was brought to the US to be a mahatma, realized soul, and not to pack groceries. And a bunch of other unintelligible stuff. Then he puts the mike back and strides back offstage, back down the centre aisle, looking neither right nor left, and out of the hall, with everybody scratching their heads as to what that was all about.

Shortly thereafter he started up his own alternative 'mission', I remember seeing the posters on the buses and around town and thinking it very strange. Similar to M but with HIM as the revealer of Knowledge, and Shri Hans as the ultimate authority and Satguru. He was in the ashram at 1560 Race for awhile, under wraps for some indiscretion, and had a local sister who visited him a lot. She later was revealed to be pregnant by him and I felt bad for her, he was very short and kinda ugly.

Anyhow, it's kind of interesting that he's still going, but even more interesting he's had a 'day job' all these years and is an otherwise normal person. If, of course, it is indeed the same person we're talking about. I can't remember the original guy's name, they all have faded into obscurity. Anyhow, thanks for the info, Mr. Free.

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Date: Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 17:32:29 (GMT)
From: Mr. Free
Email: None
To: Joy
Subject: I remember that guy . . .
Message:
I think that's him allright. I never heard about the rainbow grocery thing. Thanks
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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 21:28:15 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Mr. Free
Subject: back to whom??? remember, the Maha inherited it.
Message:
Well, hi there, Mr 'Free'

You say of this Mahatma Ramananda/Trivananda:

quote:
'He was initiated by M's father. The bank account of the Divine knowledge and meditation center is roughly in the neighbourhood of 35 to 300 dollars. No one is getting rich albeit now he has moved into a bigger and better house costing $200,000+.'
endquote.
.
.
.
er, excuse me?

'No one is getting rich albeit now he has moved into a bigger and better house costing $200,000+.' ???

So he's a no-one then?

Thought so.

.
.
.
.
.

(Since when has the ability to exploit one's fellow-man/woman been a decider of one's so-called divinity? - I thought it was all about selflessness, or am I being a bread-head?)

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Date: Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 01:01:59 (GMT)
From: Mr. Free
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: back to whom??? remember, the Maha inherited it.
Message:
Can't you read on? or should you just stop right there? His 20 years in management at King Soopers renders him a decent salary which combined with his working wife's salary makes it affordable. In other words everything he's got he earned and worked for. Quite a concept in today's world of pampered and worshipped gurus
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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 12:41:12 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Mr. Free
Subject: 'this knowledge'
Message:
Mr Free,

'this knowledge' isn't knowledge at all- by any stretch of the imagination. It's simply a con'.

Knowledge means knowing something. Fatpals techniques are simply a way of passing the time. Sure you can press your eyes and look at the patterns- just like you can look down a kaleidoscope and watch the patterns- big deal.

Knowledge is only something if you believe. There is no real experience of anything outside of your biological being.

So you can't give back what you didn't receive in the first place.

Anth the icon that came last

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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 04:26:40 (GMT)
From: Youdiditagain
Email: None
To: Mr. Free
Subject: You can never give this knowledge back
Message:
The games that are played...........

Says......(what?).....{trying to play mind games}.....

Some answer their own stuff under another name, it will not play here........

Mr. Fr...........{what a joke}

Mr. Fre is a,,,, well we will let the real ones here not be bothered by this...... come in to my web of {@#$%^$@#&*}XX FRE says.

M is CRAP........... Satsang about anything related to M is CRAP!

{??. Free??} CRAP relates to M. the little fat guy liar relating.

Now Satsang, the company of truth, fellow conscious entities getting together to talk together for the raising of the consciousness, that is admirable, but do not get it corrupted by a so called church, club, group, CULT, organization, {X}, {Y}, {Z}, affiliation, or whatever like a M, a President, a Jesus, or a leader/teacher/wizard/GURU/pal/wife/husband/whatever.........

Youdiditagain

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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 04:57:40 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Youdiditagain
Subject: Do you read Ludwig Wittgenstein? {nt}
Message:
{No, nothing here, Jim}
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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 21:26:17 (GMT)
From: Youdiditagain
Email: smile
To: Stonor
Subject: Do you read Ludwig Wittgenstein? {nt}
Message:
-

You say: '{No, nothing here, Jim}'

Hmmm who is, (Jim)?

JIM? Anna? Dick? Dolly? Stonor? Sue? whatever???

-

{Ludwig Wittgenstein} ------ No, but I did some checking on Ludwig Wittgenstein and it seems he is regarded by many well known eggheads as the most brilliant mind ever.............

He did seem to use many of my techniques and thinking styles.

Does that answer your question well enough Jim, Stonor, Anna or ?????

.

lol


{{{A golden all enveloping mist of luminescence and an understanding within which one is self realized enough to then proceed forward into the future with a quest for a more heighten sense of consciousness.}}}

A gift given?

.

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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 04:12:52 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Mr. Free
Subject: Nor can it be taken away, but what to do with it?
Message:
Hi Mr. Free,

It was fun copying your colour code, but I still can't get either of the 'code' systems to work for me - only the 'color=green' etc. system.

Mahatma Ramanda teaches yoga? By that you mean Hatha yoga? I could never understand why this was not part of 'knowledge', how 'k' is only 4 meditation techniques, and nothing else really.

Whenever I've been in a yoga class where they are pranaaming a guru's picture, I have pranaamed the sun.

Anna

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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 14:50:29 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: Nor can it be taken away, but what to do with it?
Message:
did not know that the lick ass in yoga lessons. What reason do they give. If it is hatha yoga, what importance a guru can possibly have. It's only streching and putting you leg on top of your head? did you have an argument about it, I would.

Bloody pranan for some ubknown character that is nort even a flea on a dogs' bum. Here we are pranaming to the lard of the universe and we got off all worked out and stuff and you want me to pranam to some body else. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.

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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 02:34:30 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: Mr. Free
Subject: You can never give this knowledge back
Message:
Hello,
Being in the Colorado area I would be interested in a contact tel. number for this 'Trivananda'. I think I have heard his name related to bad stories from Canada. I don't feel it necessary to get involved with any group ---but, walking around shopping in Denver, it could be fun to drop into a meeting and see what is going on. Who knows I may get inspired about the reality of this life. It can't all be bad.

Thank you, Elaine

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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 00:01:28 (GMT)
From: Tim G
Email: None
To: Mr. Free
Subject: 2 Definitions of God
Message:
Somebody who doesn't belong to any religion....Michael Caine.

That dumping ground of our dreams.......Jean Rostand

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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 18:12:32 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Tim G
Subject: Third definition: 'Imaginary Friend' (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 07:45:49 (GMT)
From: Chinese proverb
Email: None
To: Tim G
Subject: 2 perfect men - one is dead the other unborn nt
Message:
fg
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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 12:48:12 (GMT)
From: British Proverb
Email: None
To: British proverb
Subject: 2 billion perfect women- all of them beautiful (nt
Message:
AJW the nt
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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 17:23:38 (GMT)
From: Wise ex-premie proverb
Email: None
To: British Proverb
Subject: 2 Satgurus-both of them phony,one will fall...
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 04:16:09 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Tim G
Subject: That's great! Did you find or put them togther?(nt
Message:
the two quotes
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Date: Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 20:53:52 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Sound Familiar???
Message:
I took this from another 'ex-cult-members' website. (Former members of a cult called Lazaris, some guy who does channeling. I had dinner last night with a woman who just broke off a relationship with someone in that cult. It was just amazing how similar the throught-processes were to those in the Maharaji cult. Doe the following sound familiar?

We have learned that one favored technique of cults is the use of what is called 'loaded language'. This is the use of words or terms which have a different meaning or shades of meaning than that which is generally accepted (by the 'Consensus Reality'). Negative ego is one of those terms which is used because it is a great mechanism by which to control and manipulate.

Since we are taught in the Lazaris cult that negative ego is our greatest enemy, that part of us which seeks only to destroy us, the declaration that one is in negative ego has far reaching impact for those of us who are versed in the cult definition.

We have found over the years that many 'friends' respond to it and use it in a knee jerk fashion. Once someone is deemed to be 'in negative ego' they are not 'safe' to others or themselves. Those in negative ego cannot trust themselves or their thoughts. By judging someone to be 'in negative ego' therefore, we can not only completely discount them, but we should run for the hills.

So, of course we will be declared to be in negative ego by those who wish to discredit us.

Cults are so similar in these kinds of mind control mechanisms. In the Maharaji cult, just replace 'negative ego' with 'being in your mind,' or 'not having understanding' or 'having concepts.' Nowadays, I guess Maharaji would give this cult mechanism the titles 'having concepts or ideas about Maharaji or knowledge.'

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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 17:56:06 (GMT)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Sound Familiar???
Message:
I listened to an audio tape of Lazaris in the mid-80's. I remember it being very compelling and having that creepy feeling when you're believing something without really knowing. I remember thinking, 'Jesus, maybe this guy really is channelling.'

My favorite, though, was the housewife in New Mexico who suddenly started channelling some ancient wise saint. I can't remember her name but she used to fill auditoriums and get lots of gifts.

Not to change the subject (ha!), but I heard two Republican insiders yesterday (one on CNBC and the other on CNN) say that the IQ issue on Bush is unfounded. One guy said he's 'very intelligent' and the other tried to explain that people are confusing intelligence with experience.

Then I saw a clip of Bush with Greenspan. They were coming out of the building where they had finished a meeting. Bush nudged Greenspan to stop for the cameras, and then tried to do some little good-ole-boy nonsense with him. Greenspan shook his head and sort of rolled his eyes. I wish I knew what Greenspan was thinking.

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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 10:21:08 (GMT)
From: janat of venice
Email: None
To: Rick
Subject: the entity was Ramtha,JZ knight was the woman
Message:
and she was from texas by way of washington state. she got tired of the whole thing and quit to get her self back.she wrote a book if you care to read it.
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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 20:26:59 (GMT)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: janat of venice
Subject: thanks, janet, yes, Ramtha (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 19:14:28 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: janat of venice
Subject: JZ has posted on this forum Janet 6 mths ago ! nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 20:57:38 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Newest Version
Message:
According to what Kelly posted, it would appear 'defining Maharaji' or 'trying to define Maharaji' is the new buzzword for the old 'being in your mind,' or equivalent to 'being in negative ego' in the Lazaris cult.
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Date: Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 21:54:28 (GMT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Newest Version/something to add...
Message:
Joe-I resisted the temptation of making some joke that I thought you were experiencing 'negative ego' by posting your comments about the lazurus cult....

So, that certainly does remind me of the old 'being in your mind' or current day 'lacking understanding' or 'not being synchronized' crap that one can get today.

To add to Kelly's post about 'maharaji is maharaji', in that same video from the atlanta training session (which might be a good one to get and critique here-I seriously think that our analysis could actually wake up a few fence-sitters in m's ranks)
maharaji says that there are certain limitations to talking about knowledge. He says that you can use a horse to ride somewhere, but it has certain limitations, like the fact that the horse can only ride you so far, and then if it goes farther, it might ride you over a cliff...(no subtly veiled threats there!)

He then goes on to say that the limitation to talking about knowledge is that it's beyond the mind.The mind can't understand it.So therefore there is that place where all the explanations have to stop, because it's all beyond the mind.

I see this as more of the reasoning that he likes to promote that tells people to not think,not reason,just shut up and accept, with no need or reason or ability to respond or dialog with him.

It's interesting to watch him do these things, because he's fairly clever in making this seem innocuous enough to the premie viewer who trusts him, but it also provides a quite different view when you realize that he's trying to herd the faithful in, squelch the dissent(negative ego),and do some damage control.
When looked at from that perspective, he's a cheap con man in a shiny suit who's not too good at what he does.

I think that part of what he's trying to do is to give credence to the notion that there is just some part of this thing that others will never understand, and you are really lucky to be able to understand it and be in the exclusive 'k' club, so don't blow it by listening to any voice inside or outside yourself which tells you otherwise.

I actually had a premie friend tell me in the last year that the goal was to stay on the path,and 'not let anything between my ears get me in trouble', by telling me otherwise!
This was echoed by someone else, so it probably came from a recent video...

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Date: Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 20:34:31 (GMT)
From: Mahatma Offanand
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Saying the truth
Message:
Greetings to everyone and wishing you one happy holiday season.

I my youth, I was following Sant Ji Maharaj, who called himself Balyogeshwar, and even I was coming to United States to reveal the Knowledge to seekers of truth in Florida, New York and Denver. It was so beautiful to see people in the USA asking to receive knowledge and coming with so much love.

But in 1974, I was no longer following Sant Ji and was no longer his mahatma or devotee because he revealed himself to be a bad guru. Now I am reading that he is blaming also the mahatmas for spreading concepts, while at the same time he is not saying that he was the source of concepts that he was god and that knowledge was the experience of God inside and these all things. Prem Pal has much nerve blaming others for his failures. He is, how do you say, a little snot.

I believe Prem Pal's father, Sant Ji Maharaj, is many times turning over in his grave in disgust and sadness that Prem Pal is, how do you say, fucking his devotees, in so many different ways.

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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 07:50:04 (GMT)
From: Mahatma Dickinand
Email: None
To: Mahatma Offanand
Subject: hi Offy- how're ye doin' long time no see! nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 21:01:27 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Mahatma Offanand
Subject: Wow, are you legit?
Message:
If so, thanks for writing! How about some good darshan stories or anti-darshan stories?! Do you follow Satpal now? Or what?
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Date: Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 21:25:45 (GMT)
From: Mahatma Offanand
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: I am not following Sat Pal
Message:
Sat Pal also is bad guru, but Prem Pal is the worst guru. Now I am not following gurus. They are big waste of this precious life.

I am not understanding what is legit.

Prem Pal, when he was little boy, used to come with big stick and wake Mahatmas for Arti. He would hit us with sticks to wake us up and laugh, and laugh. Mahatmas all said it was blissful that the holy Sat Pal would wake us from our sleeping and the ego of our beds, but now if he did that I would take the stick from him and shove it up his ass, the little snot.

So, you can see that I am thinking differently now.

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Date: Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 21:18:37 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: I bet it's Rob
Message:
Oooer Missus!
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Date: Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 22:02:10 (GMT)
From: TED Farkel
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: 'That dog won't hunt!', as they say in Alabama...
Message:
Dear Mr. Mahatma-ji-

I aint been here in awhile, and only had this here knowledge for a short spell, being a DV auto knowledge baby, or whatever it's called, but I suspect that you aint no ex-holy man.

No sir, 'that dog won't hunt', as we say down south.

By the way, I do miss some of the dialogs with the kind and learned Mr. eDrek...he was starting to teach ole country boy TED a few things about this path...

Respectfully,

TED Farkel
(laying low in Mobile,
but open to the 'understanding'
to manifest im my life...)

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Date: Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 22:43:51 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: TED Farkel
Subject: TED, you stopped paying your dues
Message:
Well, TED, I ain't doing this as a charity as we say up North.

TED, I am certainly most appreciative of your appreciation and your gratitude when you send me cash in the mail. But Confederate money doesn't advance my efforts to raise my standard of living one iota. Capiche?

TED, you need to understand this Knowledge.

And to really understand this Knowledge you must realize that you cannot understand this Knowledge and some things about it you must simply surrender to and accept on faith. When you do this one simple thing, when you make that single step towards the Master the Master will travel across the Universe to be there with you. And that is especially true if you are an attractive busty blond woman or a reasonable fascimile of. Or you may be called upon to offer up a wife or a young nubile female daughter or sister or a groupie gopi. Whatever the Master wants and needs is what matters. It matters not what you or anyone else thinks about the mysterious ways of the Master because it is written and said, again and again, that no one can ever really understand the Master.

And for good reason no one should understand the Master. For if understanding of the Master were possible the devotees would see the Master as he really is - a creepy fat guy with a lot of kinks. No, it is far better to keep the ways of the Master secret and hidden. Nor should you fantasize or spend any mind on trying to fathom thy Master. Surely, such folly will be like riding the wild horse. While the horse may get you far and along, the horse may ride off the cliff where you will have a mutual death that won't be a pretty sight to behold. Better is it, TED, to dissassociate from negative ego and to instead mindlessly accept the bliss and then show your gratitude to the one who by his compliments has given you the most precious gift - the misunderstanding of Knowledge.

And, TED, once the Master has taken a shining to ya he will bestow his gifts upon thee until you are of swolen belly and cannot bare the burden of his flesh against yours. It is then when you will understand the importance of this breath. And you will no longer lap up water like a carnivore, but you will suck it up like a vegetarian.

(Editor's Note: After posting this Roger eDrek stood up and promptly passed out cold.)

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Date: Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 22:30:08 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: I smell a rat, here, everyone....Mahatma Offanand
Message:
is nothing more than an interloper. Wassa, matter, don't you have a real name?
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Date: Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 23:48:49 (GMT)
From: Mahatma Offanand
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: I smell a rat, here, everyone....Mahatma Offanand
Message:
Oh my dear Cynthia, Pauline Premie told me that you are also a momnot. She said to watch out for your mind causing confusion and these all things. I told her she is raving cult-member and to take one flying leap into elephant dung heap.

My real name is Baddy Bhatt, but I like the name Mahatama Offanad, and so does my Russian friend, Boris Onanoff.

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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 02:50:10 (GMT)
From: Mahatma Coat
Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com
To: Mahatma Offanand
Subject: I smell a rat, here, everyone....Mahatma Offanand
Message:
I also used to be one of Billy O'Geshwar's Mahatmas back in the old days when I was just dust and I didn't have a single Hindu concept in my head because I'd surrendered my mind to Billy O.

Young Bally Oh never got over seeing that naked woman reclining on the couch. I think it was downhill from there on.

Now I have my own nollege college and you're all welcome to partake of my divine wisdom. I can take money by PayPal now. Just email it to me.

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Date: Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 20:06:48 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: 2nd letter from Patrick Halley
Message:
How about a little comic relief? After reading Michael Dettmer's latest revelations, I could use some. So here is Patrick Halley's latest, amusing letter. (Actually, part of the letter can be disturbing, as well as funny).

(Patrick first wrote us a couple weeks ago about the incident where he threw a pie in Guru Maharaj Ji's face, in 1974. He requested the Penthouse article about him and the Guru. He was sent the article and now sends his second letter).

*

Dec. 12, 2000

It was a treat reading tbe Penthouse interview after so many years, there is much that I have forgotten. Also, the web responses...I must admit a little concern when an ex-premie still refers to Mr. Rawat as 'Our Lord.' Anyway, I'll try to answer a few of the questions brought up.

The lawsuit settlement was not $100,000, it was a tenth of that; were I more vain, such a sum would probably barely cover the plastic surgery necessary to restore my face.

Before Fakiranand and Fletcher attacked me, the weight of public opinion was against me. I was terribly misquoted by the two Detroit newspapers, and made to look foolish. For instance, the statement I prepared said 'This should not be seen merely as a protest against this Guru, whom I consider a fraud, but,also, as a protest against 2,500 years of illegitimate religious authority.'

The Detroit Free Press QUOTED me as saying, 'I hate authority. God is an authority, therefore, I hate God!' The Detroit News didn't even come remotely close to what I said, but it, at least, didn't make me sound like a blazing idiot.

Hey, my own father thought what I did was a cheap shot and that I was a coward, of sorts, for picking a religious figure a 'sissy' to attack with a pie. I was attacked by editorials in both newspapers and the Free Press used the misquote in their editorial, and called me a racist and religious bigot.

There was no word for 'cults' back then, and everything was confusing to the public, which is exactly why I stepped in, having read Krishnamurti, Paul Reps, Alan Watts, the Bhagavad Gita, Koran, Bible, etc.

It was only because I was attacked and almost killed that public opinion (including my Dad) turned my way. If they would have left me alone I would have considered my act a failure, a silly public relations stunt and nothing more, like everyone else.

I received a ltter two years later from Fakiranand, a copy was also sent to the Detroit Police. He said that he was ordered to kill me by the President of the organization (not Maharaj Ji) and he denounced the Guru and the entire organization, claiming that they used the threat of deportation to force him into it.

I don't hink it is possible to really know. At this time there was a big split in the organization, the guru married his secretary (to avoid deportation) and the family in India turned against him, denouncing him there. In Denver, the Guru had his family in India-his mother and brothers-'deholified.' Because of this obvious rift it is difficult to believe either side's version nor is it important - they are all a bunch of blood sucking money grubbing hustlers and pimps, always were. Get this straight all you who waver - heaven is not for sale!

It is not even for rent. Reincarnation, which the Buddha opposed as a concept, was always used (as the Christians used heaven and hell) by Brahma class to justify their ill-got positions of power, and the priests use it as a club to beat their followers into fear and submission. I was told, by local Premies back then, that the word was I was going to be a single-celled organism in my next life. My response? 'Beats the hell out of a radioactive isotope.'

I wish I could get a video or disc of that interview you mentioned, I never saw it or even knew it existed. I would gladly send a check or cash to cover any expense of a person that sent it to me. My son would get a kick out of it, as would my friends on the hockey team I play on.

An artist friend of mine once said that the pie throwing was the invention of, the first instance of, performace art. Since then, George Bush, when head of the CIA, got pied, as did Prime Minister of Canada, and, two weeks ago, the U.S. representative to the World Conference on Global Warming.

Having invented, or transformed at least, a new form of political expression is, to me, more important than embarrassing Guru Maharaj Ji. I was on a political newspaper at the time, and the Guru was only an opportunity, not a particular cause of mine. It could have been a lot of people, but it happened to be him. Maybe in my unconscous, fate had planted a seed-maybe the Guru's karma caught up with him, maybe some other God, having mercy on premies set me up...I don't know, and don't lose any sleep over it.

Stay free, remember, as Alan Ginsberg wrote: 'weep even for the cracks in the pavement you step on while going to pray, for, yes, they are holy.'

Patrick Halley

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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 21:32:50 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Why is this not considered?
Message:
Surely the only correct thing to do here would be to put Fakiranand and Fletcher on trial for attempted murder. Doing anything else is an irrelevance.

I believe there's no statute of limitations on attempted murder and for Christ's sake, there seems to be enough evidence to start an investigation. If this happened in Britain, there would be no obsticle in such a clear cut case.

To me, running around the periphery of this case is ridiculous. This is a clear case of two people who tried to murder Pat Halley and who probably thought they had done.

For God's sake, wake up people - we're talking about an obvious crime here!

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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 00:31:20 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Sir Dave: Why is this not considered?
Message:
There is so much evidence it's pathetic that the police and the FBI are not investigating this.

Clearly a horrendous crime has taken place against this man, Patrick Halley. Why? Because he threw a Berma Shave pie in M's face. So F**KinG what? And I don't believe for one moment that Bob Mishler would have made such an order. I believe it took place as described: Maharaji spoke in Hindi to Fakir and then said in English for the benfit of the premies, don't hurt that man or whatever his exact words were.

This is attempted murder. What is wrong with the Detroit police? Has anyone contacted them? What's going on here? Based on the last Mafia movie I saw, (and I watch a lot), the biggest wise guy who orders a hit, is the key perpetrator of the crime. A DA I am not, but this disturbs me very much.

I devoted a huge part of my life to a thug? I want to know!

Cynthia

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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 02:50:09 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com
To: Cynthia
Subject: Cynthia - this is what I'll do
Message:
For now I'll put as much relevant info on my web site in a section devoted entirely to this crime. Thanks for your post above because now I've finally understood why Maharaji said 'Don't hurt him' in English.

Last year I emailed the Detroit Police about this but I got no reply. I must admit that at the time I thought Pat Halley had died. ANyway, this cannot go unforgotten and must be publicised as much as possible.

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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 14:39:25 (GMT)
From: kap
Email: qwerty@pdai.com
To: Way
Subject: why is no one interested in the fact 2 mahatmas
Message:
why is no one interested in the fact 2 mahatmas came to my home to try and slit my throat.after being screamed at for several minites in a satsang in san francisco i swore at rawat and called him names .a few days later several mahatmas came to my home and tried to gain entrance to slit my throat .raweat is much more dangerous than any of you know .anyone who will abort his own love child will be capable of killing anyone .bye kap
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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 21:09:45 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com
To: kap
Subject: I believe you Kap and also this
Message:
I agree with you that Mr Rawat is potentially dangerous but not in a 'psychic' since, more in a Godfather way. I believe you when you say that two Mahatmas came to your door to do you in. What I don't believe is your previous story of Rawat attacking psychically. I believe that you had a panic attack and went into 'survival mode' which made you unable to move. This has happened to me once when my life was threatened.

While Rawat is capable of being dangerous, so are some ex-premies and I believe he is aware of that and is now in retreat. Because if Mr Rawat or his cronies ever waged a physical war against ex-premies, it would unleash such an organised backlash of anger and violence against him that his life would be in serious danger.

As it is now, he has played a very dangerous game and is lucky to have survived thus far. His increased security is evidence that he realises he's in retreat and just trying to cut his losses.

Quite simply - if Rawat sticks his neck out too far now, he'll lose his head.

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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 06:21:17 (GMT)
From: Bazza
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: LOTU
Message:
I mailed Patrick a copy of LOTU video last week, with love from all of us. He should have in time for Christmas hopefully.

Watch out for the sequel ;-)

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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 09:56:44 (GMT)
From: janet of venice
Email: None
To: Bazza
Subject: invite pat to come and post here! he's family!
Message:
i like the idea of this effort gathering steam and momentum. call pat over to join us here.
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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 15:48:41 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: janet of venice
Subject: Re:invite pat to come and post here! he's family!
Message:
jov,

We've already invited Pat to post on the Forum. In his first letter to us, he indicated that he does not like chatlines and prefers to communicate the old fashion way. He said that his partner does have a computer, but that he himself does not generally use it.

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Date: Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 21:08:15 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Pat Halley and Way and...
Subject: 'Fakiranand denounced the Guru and the ...
Message:
'Fakiranand denounced the Guru and the entire organization'

'He said that he was ordered to kill me by the President of the organization (not Maharaj Ji) and he denounced the Guru and the entire organization, claiming that they used the threat of deportation to force him into it.'

Thanks for putting your side of record straight there, Pat Halley.

Of course, the other side of the record is a matter of some conjecture, there being the current word of the ex-'Guru', who now claims the past never happened, and the word of the ex-premie.org, that is always going to remind him that it did, and the word of the likes of Fakiranand.

Ah, Fakiranand.

He wrote you a letter? You still have it?

Evidence is needed. Someone should show exactly how it was. You suffered terribly for your stand against the religious con-artist that M was and still is. Wouldn't you still like to right that wrong?

I was a premie when that apalling attack was inflicted on you. It can only attest to the depth of delusion I was in, that I have to admit that, back then, I went along with premie-opinion that said you'd received the karma you deserved. I wonder how many current premies still think that way?

Brainwashed? I certainly was, but had no idea that I COULD be. No excuse.

If you still feel for the injustice of it all, I hope you can forgive us, who once, in the depth of our devotion, condoned the attack. Forgiving the instigators of that attack is another matter. Is is not time to see justice done?

As for as now is concerned, I'd like to see the Maha cause no more damage to peoples' lives (certainly not in such a horrendous way as he and 'his people' did to you). To that end, I think the facts of the matter need exposing, regardless of how desperate the Maha is to re-write his history.

Pat, this site isn't just a scrap-heap for the anger and angst that following the Maha inevitably leads to. It can be more. Some of us think the world would be a better place if his real story was told.

You have a part to play in that. If you're willing.

Care to make a photocopy of that letter so it can be scanned and published on the ex-premie.org website?

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Date: Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 20:17:51 (GMT)
From: mary
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: I often play LOTU in slow motion...
Message:
at the point where Patrick turns to run after pieing the fool in the face. The look upon his face is true bliss. A grin from ear to ear and the light of a hundred suns in his eyes. Far more real than the bliss the premies believe they receive from his holy asshole's smelly feet.

Does Patrick still have the letter from Fakirinand? and does he believe that it is really from him? Could this be a litigous exhibit? Marianne?

Would Fakirinanad be willing to go on record with a statement as such?

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Date: Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 20:35:53 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Fakiranand's letter
Message:
Does Pat Halley still have the letter from Fakiranand? I'd love to see a copy of it. Could you ask him about this, Way?

Many thanks, Marianne

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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 18:20:12 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: I will ask (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 23:46:21 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Fakiranand's letter
Message:
Is Fakir still alive?

Would not he be implicating himself if he stood for witness? I don't understand why Patric did not do anything about it then? Who is he refering to being the president of the organisation? Bob Mishler or someone from India?

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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 15:04:59 (GMT)
From: Buzz
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Fakiranand's letter
Message:
Hey salam,
Fakiranand is still alive and serving Satpal,I saw a picture of him just recently in the monthly mag they publish in India,he was giving satsang in some country South Africa maybe.
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Date: Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 13:45:26 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Buzz
Subject: Something fishy here
Message:
How can he denounce the guru and still work for him, unless fatrat does not know that Fakir has sent a letter to Patrick, something is not right.
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Date: Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 17:13:10 (GMT)
From: Buzz
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Something fishy here
Message:
Hi Salam,
Not for prempal but for satpal,too many pals spoil the broth and don't forget pal prolongs active life that is if they sell that brand of dog food in Aussie
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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 03:04:51 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Buzz
Subject: Fuck all PALs
Message:
Got you. No wonder I got lost there.

So Mr Fakir, got pissed off with little pal and he went working for the big pal. Interesting, seems to be emplyment in this field.

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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 03:07:48 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Who is bbj then
Message:
Is he Satpal?

I know stupid question.

But I still want an answer.

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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 06:33:13 (GMT)
From: Buzz
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Who is bbj then
Message:
Hi Salam.
Yes Bbj is satpal although it was hard to recognize him at first,must have been heavy on the chapatis.
Love
Buzz
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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 12:56:26 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Buzz
Subject: Shit. I thought you were bazza.
Message:
This is too much for me. I won't know who am I in a second.

I was going to put a post up for you, but seeing that I have found out that am already talking to you, this is what I was going to say:

Since you seem to be the bajis' favorite infiltrator and have contact in the far east, can you find out what actually happened with Mr Fakirchapati. Maybe some e-mail under the table that no one will notice(know what I mean, bit of shiffty business, like Sai baba). What do they know on the opposing camp about the incident, who was it that was going to give the word to go and sniff Pats' life. Am a bit mixed up here as you notice, but can you find out what m said in that ashram in Indian. Well I leave it to your alpha-2 team to figure out the details.

Fuck you Rawat, I mean Salam

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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 06:06:39 (GMT)
From: Buzz
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Shit. I thought you were bazza.
Message:
Definately the baiji new about it which must mean it's common knowledge,I'm gonna have to check this but i remember something about Fak being all sorry about it and sort of running to Bbj for forgiveness,but I'll try and get in touch with a guy who went to the ashram in delhi immediately after the family split and spent time with Bbj and other mahatmas .I do know that Ashokanand was really bruised by Rawat and had a bit to say to my friend about the lard.
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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 02:53:49 (GMT)
From: such
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: no way Bob would have done that, without agya (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 04:43:16 (GMT)
From: IHQ Enquirer
Email: None
To: all
Subject: Word at IHQ put Merino Amico at the scene (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 18:22:58 (GMT)
From: C.G.
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Don't Laugh
Message:
Don't laugh - there was another conference call yesterday. It was called Propogation in 2001!

Some hopes eh!? and for five dollars many hopeful premies tuned in to find out just how to do it.

C.G.

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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 01:19:42 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: C.G.
Subject: Propagation Odyssey 2001- Keep Your Mouths Shut!
Message:
Propagation Odyssey 2001

Certainly, Maharaji sees that he needs to keep Premies from saying anything at all. And that goes double for here on the Forum. You gotta know that everytime some fool premie like Nil dodges and ducks the issues here that Maharaji loses 5 potential aspirants.

Now, Maharaji, through his own compliments, is taking over everything. And why not? He's perfect. Never errs. Always does the impeccable. Superhuman, super being.

Just substitute GMJ for HAL and it's all the same.

--------------------
HAL: I honestly think you ought to calm down; take a stress pill and think things over.

--------------------
HAL: I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do.

--------------------
[Regarding the supposed failure of the parabolic antenna on the ship, which HAL himself falsified]
HAL: It can only be attributable to human error.

--------------------
Dave Bowman: Hello, HAL do you read me, HAL?
HAL: Affirmative, Dave, I read you.
Dave Bowman: Open the pod bay doors, HAL.
HAL: I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.
Dave Bowman: What's the problem?
HAL: I think you know what the problem is just as well as I do.
Dave Bowman: What are you talking about, HAL?
HAL: This mission is too important for me to allow you to jeopardize it.
Dave Bowman: I don't know what you're talking about, HAL?
HAL: I know you and Frank were planning to disconnect me, and I'm afraid that's something I cannot allow to happen.
Dave Bowman: Where the hell'd you get that idea, HAL?
HAL: Dave, although you took thorough precautions in the pod against my hearing you, I could see your lips move.

--------------------
[HAL won't let Dave into the ship]
Dave: All right, HAL; I'll go in through the emergency airlock.
HAL: Without your space helmet, Dave, you're going to find that rather difficult.
Dave: HAL, I won't argue with you anymore! Open the doors!
HAL: Dave, this conversation can serve no purpose anymore. Goodbye.

--------------------
[On Dave's return to the ship]
HAL: Look Dave, I can see you're really upset about this.

--------------------
HAL: I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my complete assurance that my work will be back to normal.

--------------------
[HAL's shutdown]
HAL: I'm afraid. I'm afraid, Dave. Dave, my mind is going. I can feel it. I can feel it. My mind is going. There is no question about it. I can feel it. I can feel it. I can feel it. I'm a...fraid. Good afternoon, gentlemen. I am a HAL 9000 computer. I became operational at the H.A.L. plant in Urbana, Illinois on the 12th of January 1992. My instructor was Mr. Langley, and he taught me to sing a song. If you'd like to hear it I can sing it for you.
Dave Bowman: Yes, I'd like to hear it, HAL. Sing it for me.
HAL: It's called 'Daisy.' [sings while slowing down] Daisy, Daisy, give me your answer do. I'm half crazy all for the love of you. It won't be a stylish marriage, I can't afford a carriage. But you'll look sweet upon the seat of a bicycle built for two.

--------------------
HAL 9000: Let me put it this way, Mr. Amer. The 9000 series is the most reliable computer ever made. No 9000 computer has ever made a mistake or distorted information. We are all, by any practical definition of the words, foolproof and incapable of error.

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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 05:05:41 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: But only a machine.
Message:
--------------------
HAL 9000: Let me put it this way, Mr. Amer. The 9000 series is the most reliable computer ever made. No 9000 computer has ever made a mistake or distorted information. We are all, by any practical definition of the words, foolproof and incapable of error.
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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 03:02:22 (GMT)
From: Gordon Showcase
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Wihning loosers
Message:
Thanks for finally letting me know all the words to that song.

Of course, Maharaji dosn't want to shut up people like me, who is important. Unlike all you loosers who never understood the meaning of the word, 'Lilia'.

Oh what fools Maharaji has made of you all. He must be laughing like a drain at your prostates. What guy wouldn't want the pick of the best wimmin, the best boose and dope and lodes a money!

Yore all jealus aren't you, of the master's suckess? Yeah, wining loosers, all.

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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 23:46:52 (GMT)
From: Yu tel them
Email: None
To: Gordon Showcase
Subject: Wihning loosers
Message:
Thanks, Gordin.

Thos x-primis ar such loosers. I em glad yu sed it.

Hahahahaha. I lik wut yu sed about Mirage having lodes of mony. He duz and thos x-prims dunt. They ar just jelus. hahahaha.

I cunt undirstand wy they dunt luv Mirage. He iz the makir of al things creatid. How can you nut luv that.

I rilly wish he wuld hav Patrik call me up and say Mirage wants to fuk me. Evin tho I am 52, I am pritty good looking and I hav experiunce, if you no wat I meen. I wuld luv it if Mirage wuld fuk me. Evry primi woman and lots of the men would luv that.

hahahahah. Mirage has the last laff! hahahaha.

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Date: Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 01:20:14 (GMT)
From: Gordon Showcase
Email: None
To: Yu tel them
Subject: He can have me
Message:
Maharaji can screw me if he want's. I'd be gay for a day for the Lord. Thats gooing to be my new slogan,

Be gay for a day for the master of perfectshone

It'll catch on. I'll be the first and Joe will be jeolus then that he never gave hed to the golden one.

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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 18:51:44 (GMT)
From: Tami
Email: None
To: Gordon Showcase
Subject: Duny bee silee
Message:
Gordin,

I hav nuze four yu. Yu dunt hav to bee gay to bee fuked by Mirage. Yu dunk hav to bee gay too bee fuked by ini one, yu silee boy!

Tami

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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 05:14:52 (GMT)
From: Over
Email: None
To: Gordon Showcase
Subject: Bearing loozers (nt)
Message:
{or is that over-beering?} {and that shood be 'Whyning'} {and 'jellus'}

unnu

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