Forum V: Archive
Compiled: Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 15:16:37 (GMT)
From: Dec 18, 2000 To: Dec 27, 2000 Page: 3 Of: 5


Jim -:- What's with these non-appearing posts? -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 03:51:55 (GMT)
__ bill -:- Happy Holidays St. James.--nt -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 13:46:13 (GMT)
__ __ bill -:- You Too Drekmaster!--and All--nt -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 13:48:03 (GMT)
__ Sir Dave -:- What's with these non-appearing posts? -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 09:55:40 (GMT)
__ __ Sir Dave -:- My mistake - that was an old link -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 09:59:29 (GMT)
__ Noah Cross -:- Forget it, Jim. It's Maharajitown. -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 04:23:38 (GMT)
__ Gail -:- What's with these non-appearing posts? -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 04:12:25 (GMT)

Salam -:- SB............OT -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 01:10:37 (GMT)
__ SB -:- Please -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 18:14:07 (GMT)
__ __ Sal;am -:- Please -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 23:18:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ Sb -:- You didn't -:- Sat, Dec 23, 2000 at 04:13:25 (GMT)

Michael's Posr Re -:- Maharaji Killing a Man -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 23:39:10 (GMT)
__ Steve Quint -:- Maharaji Killing a Man -:- Sun, Dec 24, 2000 at 14:46:26 (GMT)
__ such -:- LEGAL ISSUES.and DETAILS? OTHER WITNESSES? PLEASE! -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 19:00:24 (GMT)
__ suchabanana -:- MD,details? WITNESSES,persons w/ info? Please! (nt -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 18:51:24 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- What are you saying, such? -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 19:09:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ such -:- r.e.the accident report:maybe felony fraud/perjury -:- Sat, Dec 23, 2000 at 01:12:05 (GMT)
__ Monmot -:- Sounds Like Rady Prouty Is Mr. HazMat Man... -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 18:08:14 (GMT)
__ __ Lesley -:- Probably why he got so heavy with people running -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 20:59:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ Monmot -:- Running? Like in jogging? If so, that's nuts nt -:- Sat, Dec 23, 2000 at 00:48:16 (GMT)
__ __ GAC -:- Randy Prouty is a PRICK who probably will not .... -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 20:50:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ GAC -:- Randy Prouty is a PRICK who probably will not .... -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 21:16:06 (GMT)
__ No statute of limitations -:- Maharaji Killing a Man! (Michael must tell)!!!!!!! -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 06:46:03 (GMT)
__ __ Salam -:- Shut up. -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 10:59:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ No statute of limitations -:- Shut up. -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 12:32:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Don't be ridiculous -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 17:38:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ No statute of limitations -:- Don't {YOU} be ridiculous -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 23:41:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ JohnT -:- you did say... -:- Sun, Dec 24, 2000 at 00:31:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ No statute of limitations -:- As it is .................. -:- Sun, Dec 24, 2000 at 03:09:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Your terminology's confused, fella -:- Sun, Dec 24, 2000 at 18:41:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- As it is .................. -:- Sun, Dec 24, 2000 at 04:18:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ No statute of limitations -:- As it is .................. -:- Sun, Dec 24, 2000 at 07:05:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- As it is .................. -:- Sun, Dec 24, 2000 at 16:31:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- Don't be ridiculous -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 23:25:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Hi Salam -:- Sat, Dec 23, 2000 at 07:45:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- Ha ha, very funny -:- Sat, Dec 23, 2000 at 09:01:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Ha Ha, HAMSTER GENOCIDE!!!! -:- Sat, Dec 23, 2000 at 16:41:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- Ha Ha, HAMSTER GENOCIDE!!!! -:- Sat, Dec 23, 2000 at 18:15:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Ha Ha, HAMSTER GENOCIDE!!!! -:- Sat, Dec 23, 2000 at 19:10:28 (GMT)
__ suchabanana -:- 1Vehicular Manslaughter;2Leaving Scene;3Perjury(nt -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 05:34:51 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- or 'HIT AND RUN' (with bribery by accomplices)(nt) -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 15:46:05 (GMT)
__ Roger eDrek -:- Shades of the Great Gatsby! (nt) -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 00:21:13 (GMT)
__ __ Joe -:- Also Shades of Bonfire of the Vanities (nt) -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 19:13:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ shp -:- The fork in the road -:- Sat, Dec 23, 2000 at 18:32:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ shp -:- Thinking it out in its simplicity -:- Sat, Dec 23, 2000 at 19:08:51 (GMT)

la-ex -:- Sir Dave/more for Truth site/MD speaks out... -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 23:23:14 (GMT)
__ Sir Dave -:- It's on the site - thanks la-ex -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 09:37:07 (GMT)
__ Sir Dave -:- Sir Dave/more for Truth site/MD speaks out... -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 00:08:15 (GMT)
__ __ Joe -:- No Dave, it's VERY serious.... -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 20:52:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ Bin Liner -:- Dead right Joe....(nt) -:- Sat, Dec 23, 2000 at 23:00:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ Susan -:- excellent post Joe agree (nt) -:- Sat, Dec 23, 2000 at 22:40:22 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- FA -- my reply just plum disappeared -- all of it -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 03:41:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ Sir Dave -:- FA -- my reply just plum disappeared -- all of it -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 09:43:31 (GMT)

Joe -:- Smart Cards....what is the real purpose? -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 20:45:07 (GMT)
__ Mickey the Apocalyptic -:- ¡¡¡¡¡It's the mark of the Beast!!!!! -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 22:55:33 (GMT)
__ __ shp -:- Mickey -:- Sat, Dec 23, 2000 at 03:52:39 (GMT)
__ __ gerry -:- pobre Panama... -:- Sat, Dec 23, 2000 at 00:06:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ Your friend -:- Español, eh? OT -:- Sat, Dec 23, 2000 at 05:21:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ gerry -:- Hola amiga -:- Sat, Dec 23, 2000 at 16:08:31 (GMT)
__ shp -:- Smart Cards....what is the real purpose? -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 15:28:25 (GMT)
__ __ Bin Liner -:- I just bought my children magnets to go in the -:- Sat, Dec 23, 2000 at 23:32:33 (GMT)
__ __ shp -:- Some eye-opening links about the smart card -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 16:05:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ shp -:- Joe, Just one thing... -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 16:19:34 (GMT)
__ Kelly -:- Smart Cards. I've got one, but I'm a fool -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 23:10:30 (GMT)
__ __ la-ex -:- Smart Cards. I've got one, I'm a fool/Maybe not? -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 23:36:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ Steve Quint -:- Smart Cards. I've got one, I'm a fool/Maybe not? -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 07:14:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ Kelly -:- Sorry pal , it's PAL -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 07:00:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ shp -:- Find a tri-standard video player or convert it -:- Sat, Dec 23, 2000 at 15:47:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Buzz -:- Sorry pal , it's PAL -:- Sat, Dec 23, 2000 at 06:08:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Kelly -:- Sorry pal , it's PAL -:- Sat, Dec 23, 2000 at 14:01:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Buzz -:- Sorry pal , it's PAL -:- Sat, Dec 23, 2000 at 15:55:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Kelly -:- E-mailed you nt -:- Sat, Dec 23, 2000 at 20:07:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ shp -:- PAL, NTSC, HDTV, etc -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 16:35:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ Salam -:- What is a smart card? -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 00:08:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Salam -:- How to make them -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 00:16:55 (GMT)
__ Steve Quint -:- Smart Cards....what is the real purpose? -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 20:51:35 (GMT)
__ __ JTF -:- Smart Cards....what we last heard! -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 22:00:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ Ted -:- Smart Cards....what we last heard! -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 06:16:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ janet of venice -:- i demanded my materials back and a refund -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 08:41:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- Who you calling village idiot? -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 11:29:59 (GMT)

Salam -:- Am on top of the world -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 16:44:15 (GMT)
__ Robyn -:- Am on top of the world -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 05:41:37 (GMT)
__ __ Salam -:- Thank you Robyn -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 10:52:28 (GMT)
__ Kelly -:- I just fell off the bottom! nt -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 18:37:13 (GMT)
__ __ janet -:- need a hand getting back up??????here's mine -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 08:46:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ Kelly -:- to janet and Salam -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 09:59:00 (GMT)
__ Joy -:- Am on top of the world -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 17:34:52 (GMT)
__ __ Salam -:- I do not think I am gonna post here anymore -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 23:20:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ janet -:- noooo-don't go! we need you here.stay please! -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 08:47:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Salam -:- It's gonna cost you.....nt -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 10:35:10 (GMT)

Jim -:- Hi, Seasons Greetings and a book recommendation -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 16:15:48 (GMT)
__ gerry -:- Yes, that is an excellent book. -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 17:39:39 (GMT)
__ Roger eDrek -:- Jim Who? FA, block him now, please! (nt) -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 00:23:05 (GMT)
__ Jerry -:- Hey, look who's back! -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 20:29:06 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- Happy Hannukah -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 18:42:06 (GMT)
__ Stonor -:- Gratitude/guilt trips/covert aggr./'reciprocity' -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 16:46:43 (GMT)
__ Salam -:- Hello, where have you been?..nt -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 16:32:35 (GMT)
__ Way -:- Nice to see you back! (nt) -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 16:24:30 (GMT)

Prem Pal Singh Rawat's -:- Pimps.... yeah.... our Artie you bros and hos -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 15:58:21 (GMT)

Mary -:- Today Show -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 13:20:26 (GMT)
__ Mary M -:- Today Show -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 13:46:08 (GMT)
__ __ jondon -:- Today Show -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 16:27:48 (GMT)
__ __ Way -:- It must be Jondon -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 15:23:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ Way -:- Ah yes, Christmas in New York -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 18:10:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Hey Sign Maker! -:- Who is GMJ? -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 19:08:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Gail -:- Who is GMJ--You are amazing -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 04:33:39 (GMT)

Larkin -:- A midlife's tale... -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 12:39:13 (GMT)
__ Cynthia -:- A midlife's tale...Great Larkin! Needed that::)nt -:- Sat, Dec 23, 2000 at 01:17:09 (GMT)
__ bill -:- Another Larkin Gem--thanks.--nt -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 13:50:51 (GMT)
__ Gail -:- A midlife's tale...You did it again! -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 04:39:08 (GMT)
__ Roger eDrek -:- A midlife's tale added to the House -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 23:23:59 (GMT)
__ __ Carly Simon -:- I give rights for'you're so vain'(writers?)nt -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 23:42:30 (GMT)
__ D.Capitated -:- I laughed my head off! nt -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 20:34:51 (GMT)
__ JohnT -:- Another Rollicking Rhyme! What fun! -nt- -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 14:26:35 (GMT)
__ __ kap -:- oh its guru this and gura that and guru your so -- -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 14:44:05 (GMT)

JTF -:- Is rawat a serial bully? -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 12:02:05 (GMT)
__ Stonor -:- Link to complete page and site: Bully Online -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 17:06:22 (GMT)
__ __ JTF -:- yes it is...Thanks for link...I'm lazy! -nt -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 17:28:43 (GMT)
__ Steve Quint -:- Is rawat a serial bully? -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 17:01:31 (GMT)
__ Salam -:- Looks like it..............nt -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 13:00:20 (GMT)

Nigel and TD -:- Off to Amaroo in the morning for a picnic... -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 12:02:01 (GMT)
__ j of v -:- while you're there, why doncha... -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 09:20:17 (GMT)
__ Erstwhile Aspirant -:- Amaroo is a hell-hole -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 23:21:46 (GMT)
__ Helen -:- Off to Amaroo in the morning for a picnic... -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 21:36:13 (GMT)
__ __ Nigel and TD -:- Off to Amaroo in the morning for a picnic... -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 20:32:34 (GMT)
__ Salam -:- I heared that blubber gets offended -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 12:16:49 (GMT)
__ __ Nigel -:- Are you in Sydney? (ot) -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 14:04:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ Salam -:- Are you in Sydney? (ot) -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 16:36:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Mental as Anything -:- HAVE I GOT F##KING LEPROSY?? -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 06:27:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- How did you get in you silly cat? -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 10:47:32 (GMT)
__ __ JTF -:- Have some respect-call him blubberji-(nt) -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 13:28:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ Salam -:- What's the difference?....nt -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 13:54:01 (GMT)
__ Oliver. -:- You won't need a smart card,.... -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 12:07:24 (GMT)
__ __ Marianne -:- Was it fun? -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 19:12:32 (GMT)

Last question -:- To Michael Dettmers re your 1st agreement -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 11:36:04 (GMT)
__ Michael Dettmers -:- Not my last response -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 20:34:02 (GMT)
__ __ bill -:- Thanks you and have a happy Holiday MD:)--nt -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 13:54:01 (GMT)
__ __ such -:- 'the lord, as such',does not judge you,Michael (nt -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 22:21:27 (GMT)
__ __ No statute of limitations -:- Not my last response/Maharaji has killed a man!!! -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 22:20:04 (GMT)
__ __ Kelly -:- The missing piece...murder -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 21:18:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ Susan -:- The missing piece...murder? -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 21:49:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Tom -:- Missing piece...murder? Let the Courts decide! -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 23:02:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Kelly -:- Of course it's not murder..but -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 22:09:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Susan -:- thanks Kelly -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 23:38:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Tom -:- Of course it's not murder..but -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 22:30:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Tom -:- not murder..but??? If it may be Murder!!! (nt) -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 22:38:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Vehicular manslaughter -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 22:02:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Why do you think that, Marianne? -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 17:55:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- Vehicular Manslaughter -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 21:49:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ suchabanana -:- Right, depends whose fault it was. more WITNESSES -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 18:42:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- More important - had he been drinking? -:- Sat, Dec 23, 2000 at 06:00:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ such -:- a VERY good question, Nigel (nt -:- Sat, Dec 23, 2000 at 06:41:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Indira Ghandi -:- Vehicular manslaughter -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 10:02:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Joy -:- Vehicular manslaughter -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 19:45:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Indira Ghandi -:- Vehicular manslaughter -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 22:00:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Union Carbide -:- The value of Indian life... -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 21:55:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Indira Ghandi -:- The value of Indian life... -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 22:07:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Union Carbide -:- The value of Indian life... -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 22:14:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Kelly -:- excuse me Indira Ghandi,I thought you were dead.nt -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 15:42:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Indira Ghandi -:- excuse me Indira Ghandi,I thought you were dead.nt -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 16:44:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ suchabanana -:- Criminal:leaving scene of accident,and perjury (nt -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 22:45:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Susan -:- thanks Marianne well said (nt) -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 22:10:36 (GMT)
__ __ Susan -:- don't ask Randy about this -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 20:59:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ JTF -:- It's called selective memory loss -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 22:05:08 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- Who the fuck are you... -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 18:45:02 (GMT)
__ Susan -:- whoever you are you are disgusting me -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 17:36:42 (GMT)
__ __ Marianne -:- Excellent post, Susan - nt -:- Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 19:19:24 (GMT)


Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 03:51:55 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: What's with these non-appearing posts?
Message:
I've tried to post a couple of replies to Dave re Maharaji's unfortunate fender bender but they didn't just show up empty, they didn't show up at all. Plus my friend, Barry Clarke, who posted a couple of days ago, tells me that he replied to each of the people who answered him but none of those posts appeared either.

Anyone else? What's going on?

Anyway, luckily I was able to retrieve one of my two posts to Dave. I just said:

Maharaji did most definitely kill someone. If he wasn't drunk or otherwise negligent and it was just an accident, then it wasn't a homicide (i.e. unlawful killing), but it was a killing all the same. And yes, Maharaji was guilty of obstruction of justice as well as leaving the scene of an accident, two charges whose seriousness varies dramatically depending on the circumstances. These were serious circumstances and could well attract jail terms in Canada, the U.S. and a whole lot of other places. Maybe even significant jail terms, if he was lucky.

But what an asshole, huh? Setting up the 'houseboy' of all things. You put the word 'willingly' in parentheses but I think quotation marks is more like it. Really!

Shades of Sai Baba, is how I see it.

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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 13:46:13 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Happy Holidays St. James.--nt
Message:
dfg
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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 13:48:03 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: You Too Drekmaster!--and All--nt
Message:
rth
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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 09:55:40 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: What's with these non-appearing posts?
Message:
We don't get this problem with The ANYTHING GOES Forum which is on Hotboards.

I replied to your post down below.

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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 09:59:29 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: My mistake - that was an old link
Message:
It should have been

The ANYTHING GOES Forum

which is the new link. Hotboards are good. You can edit your own post after you've posted it which is good when you realise you've made some mistakes.

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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 04:23:38 (GMT)
From: Noah Cross
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Jim
Subject: Forget it, Jim. It's Maharajitown.
Message:
The entire episode was a blissful lila where one lucky soul got sent ahead to the next life where he/she will be Maharaji's consort once or twice. Who could ever ask for more?

As far as problems here on Forum IV, don't you think that maybe there is a reason for that? Come on, man, have you been gone that long that you don't remember that not a leaf moves without Maharaji knowing about it? Omniscient, omnipotent, and omnivorous.

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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 04:12:25 (GMT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: What's with these non-appearing posts?
Message:
Season's greetings. Is this really true? Maharaji set someone else up to cover his misdeeds? Good to see you here.
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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 01:10:37 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: SB............OT
Message:
I do not think you should be offline. Go and get a mouse and a keyboard and talk to me. I do not think it is good not to be able to communicate. Please,

Do it and write,

Thinking of you,

Salam

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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 18:14:07 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Please
Message:
Don't do to me here. I beg you. I'll e-mail you TODAY from the public library. I promised. Please. What I shared with you is between you and me. ok?

Love,

SB

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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 23:18:33 (GMT)
From: Sal;am
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: Please
Message:
Sb,

I did not know where to contact you, so I left you a message here that is all. Last person I want to piss off is you.

Salam

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Date: Sat, Dec 23, 2000 at 04:13:25 (GMT)
From: Sb
Email: None
To: Sal;am
Subject: You didn't
Message:
piss me off!!

I'm at home and typing. hehehe... No alarming on the forum.

I'll e-mail you again. I just got home.

Love,

S

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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 23:39:10 (GMT)
From: Michael's Posr Re
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Maharaji Killing a Man
Message:
I'm bringing this up to the top because, frankly, I'm shocked. I didn't think I could be. Maharaji ought to be horse-whipped, and Randy Prouty, you are a disgusting human being, both for doing this and also lying about what Susan told you about Jagdeo. Good luck on living with yourself, you bastard.

Here is what Michael said:

And if you think that the Jagdeo situation isn’t proof enough of his {Maharaji's]cowardice, let me leave you with another disclosure to mull over this holiday season. I don’t know how many of you are aware that Maharaji has killed a man. In the early 80’s, following a festival at the ashram outside of New Delhi, India, Maharaji and his motorcade were traveling from the ashram to the airport to board the 707 for America. Maharaji was driving the lead car and I was a passenger in the front seat of the car directly behind his. All of a sudden, I saw a man riding a bicycle pull out in front of Maharaji’s car. Seconds later the man went flying several yards into the ditch. He died instantly. Randy Prouty, who was traveling as security in Maharaji’s vehicle, frantically ran to the car I was in and instructed all of us to get out of the car and find a place in the other vehicles that were part of the motorcade. Maharaji and the people in his car quickly transferred to the car I was in, and we all sped to the airport. Sampurnanand stayed behind to deal with the situation which he did by having his houseboy take the wrap. In the investigation that ensued, the houseboy stating that he was the driver of the vehicle who hit the unfortunate cyclist. That explanation, plus a heft cash settlement to the victim’s family, enabled Maharaji to quickly put the incident behind him so that he could get on with the business of bringing peace, love and joy to the rest of humanity.

I can't say I'm surprised with the way this was handled, considering the way they have handled all Maharaji's messes, but how can premies continue to follow this guy, and even suggest that new people get involved with him?

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Date: Sun, Dec 24, 2000 at 14:46:26 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Maharaji Killing a Man
Message:
Personally, I think Rawat has killed a lot more people through his 'satsangs' than through the alleged incident discussed here.

What I mean is that, as I reported last week after watching the recent satellite video from Katmandu, he is still going on and on about how dangerous the mind is.

I've said this many times before, but of the tens of thousands of people who've received knowledge and the trip of importance of devotion to Rawat and his speeches, a certain percentage, including myself, have had sensitive and delicate minds that should have been respected, nurtured, and given advice about how to get stronger and not raps about how to neglect and avoid their minds. Some of these people have committed suicide. Many others have experienced years of suffering. I am alive only by the grace of God and my own persistence.

JTF's awarding of 'Slimeball Of The Year' to Rawat above on Sunday, December 24 in the post entitled 'Damn it, why must Rawat always win' is an understatement. 'Slimeball Of The Millenium' might be more appropriate.

Steve

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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 19:00:24 (GMT)
From: such
Email: None
To: Michael's Posr Re
Subject: LEGAL ISSUES.and DETAILS? OTHER WITNESSES? PLEASE!
Message:
THE ISSUES INVOLVED IN ALLEGED FATAL CAR/BICYCLE ACCIDENT:

1) Question of Vehicular Manslaughter - whose fault was the accident? m. or bicylist? unavoidable, or m. speeding? Any attempt to avoid accident, swerve, brake, etc.? India is very loose and chaotic, in practice: r.e. highways, cars, pedestrians, infrastructure, etc.

Witnesses: were there contradicting witnesses at the scene, besides m.'s yes-men? m.'s flight implies culpability of some kind, as well as personal responsibility for and involvement in the accident.

2) HIT AND RUN: Flight from the scene of a fatal car accident: if true, and m. was the driver, then this would be a criminal felony in most industrialized nations, punishable by prison time. There is a need for corroboration by just one more witness, besides MD. [Indian law derived from British codes]

3) switching drivers and cars, installing the houseboy as the scapegoat, and coercing/persuading him to testify as the driver involves PERJURY, and concerted complicity thereof [conspiracy is not a word I'm found of]. Remember: 'no cheat, no deceit?!'

4) Date, time of day, exact location, name of road, car description/i.d., names of all personnel present?

5) DLM/EVI s.o.p.: coverup, hush money [to victim's family] - to prevent publicity or p.r. nightmare.

OTHER WITNESSES OR PERSONS WITH INFORMATION ABOUT THESE CIRCUMSTANCES, PLEASE COME FORTH! THANK YOU.

Peace,

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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 18:51:24 (GMT)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: Michael's Posr Re
Subject: MD,details? WITNESSES,persons w/ info? Please! (nt
Message:
1) Question of Vehicular Manslaughter - whose fault was the accident? m. or bicylist? unavoidable, or m. speeding? Any attempt to avoid accident, swerve, brake, etc.? India is very loose and chaotic, in practice: r.e. highways, cars, pedestrians, infrastructure, etc.

Witnesses: were there contradicting witnesses at the scene, besides m.'s yes-men? m.'s flight implies culpability of some kind, as well as personal responsibility for and involvement in the accident.

2) HIT AND RUN: Flight from the scene of a fatal car accident: if true, and m. was the driver, then this would be a criminal felony in most industrialized nations, punishable by prison time. There is a need for corroboration by just one more witness, besides MD. [Indian law derived from British codes]

3) switching drivers and cars, installing the houseboy as the scapegoat, and coercing/persuading him to testify as the driver involves PERJURY, and concerted complicity thereof [conspiracy is not a word I'm found of]. Remember: 'no cheat, no deceit?!'

4) Date, time of day, exact location, name of road, car description/i.d., names of all personnel present?

5) DLM/EVI s.o.p.: coverup, hush money [to victim's family] - to prevent publicity or p.r. nightmare.

OTHER WITNESSES OR PERSONS WITH INFORMATION ABOUT THESE CIRCUMSTANCES, PLEASE COME FORTH! THANK YOU.

Peace,

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 19:09:56 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: suchabanana
Subject: What are you saying, such?
Message:
Are you calling Mike one of Maharaji's 'yes men'? Because, if not, the story he tells is pretty simple. It was an accident, for christ's sake. m's flight does indeed imply culpability -- for the flight. For the shell game with the houseboy. For being a cowardly, duplicitous jerk. But that's it.

And no, no there's no 'perjury' here. That's something that only happens under oath, usually in court.

Like so many other issues about Maharaji, this matter is left to be litigated in the court of public opinion and that's about it.

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Date: Sat, Dec 23, 2000 at 01:12:05 (GMT)
From: such
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: r.e.the accident report:maybe felony fraud/perjury
Message:
Jim:

When you file a signed, fatal vehicular accident report with the police, if you lie aren't you liable for criminal penalties? That is, after all, an official, legal statement and document that may then be used in court, with ramifications and penalties for any deliberate or serious falsehoods. The houseboy would probably then 'fess up to save himself (unless he's a total cult-zombie) - bingo! [I brought in 2 credible, impartial eyewitnesses one time against a teenager who ran a light and drove right into me, then tried to leave (but I caught him), and then he filed a false accident report with additional false statements from his friends (but there were no injuries, other than some bruises), and I won a civil judgment. Note: The judge warned the defendant and his friends that if it had been a serious accident involving any injuries, he would have referred the matter to the prosecutor.]

Furthermore, with more details from Michael Dettmers and some corroboration from any of the other witnesses, the Indian authorities could probably reopen the case and investigate the incident more thoroughly. If nothing else, it's pretty damning stuff r.e. Lardo, don't you think?!

Also, at the time, Mike was clearly one of m's yes-men. Otherwise, would he have done all the shit he did? He was more brainwashed than most, perhaps. That's why I wrote that 'the lord, as such' does not judge him (to borrow a phrase from his most relevant sentence, in this regard). The Lord, and the lord within me, does NOT judge him, pimp or no. I feel that his posts are a form of atonement and the revelations contained therein must surely be very embarrassing to him. Although he has not ever said to everyone, 'I'm terribly sorry to anybody who was hurt, deceived or badly affected as a consequence of my actions,' I think that might be part of the equation here. [Also for legal purposes, Mike's obviously not to going make the type of admissions that might culminate in taking the rap for the greedy one.]

I think Mike understands, by now, that thousands of premies were negatively affected by the decisions that Lardo, Mike himself and other PAM honchos made. It is my own opinion that the mirage and charade could not have been so easily perpetuated, except with great difficulty - rather, it would probably have been exposed 20+ years ago, had PAMs decided not to be the willing and complicit agents for m. involving the various DLM/EVI coverups and shell games: Halley-Fakiranand, Jagdeo, other mahatma sexual abuses, the accident, the money diversions, the pimping, the cheat and deceit [vis a vis the rest of the premies], and so forth.

I wish, however, Michael would make some statement of contrition. That might mitigate the ire that some angry exes have expressed toward him. That's up to him.

Also, he may not have had a clear view of the accident from the vehicle behind. Who was at fault? avoidable, not, or speeding?

At the least, it was allegedly hit and run by the Lard in a fatal accident - that's a felony, in most places nowadays.

Furthermore, the accident and m.'s revolting response totally undermine his organization, his position and claims as any kind of respectable spiritual teacher/leader -- ditto for the drugs, procured blondies, coddling a pedophile, aiding and abetting fugitive criminals (Fakiranand and accomplices), and the gross longterm misuse of premie donations.

I'm not about to play Devil's advocate here. If the accident information (including any falsehoods or coverup) can be gathered and reviewed, then it would obviously be a matter for the Indian authorities. Persona non grata, formal charges, extradition, collection of damages, appropriation of assets, who knows?! Regardless, it's despicable behavior - and very bad Karma for anyone, including a greedy guru. {except in the eyes of any cult fanatics who believe this alleged accident was just a beautiful lila by the Lard that worked out the dead man's own karma].

Of course, you're the expert here, not me.

Peace,

such

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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 18:08:14 (GMT)
From: Monmot
Email: None
To: Michael's Posr Re
Subject: Sounds Like Rady Prouty Is Mr. HazMat Man...
Message:
He certainly does a lot of cleanup after/for Mr. M. Perhaps he should be appointed head of the EPA. These people protecting Maharaji from his misdeeds and blatant immorality give new meaning to cognitive dissonance.

No doubt, shortly after his accident, Maharaji gave a satsang about how fleeting this life is and how you can't rely on the maya of this world. Yada yada yada....

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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 20:59:13 (GMT)
From: Lesley
Email: None
To: Monmot
Subject: Probably why he got so heavy with people running
Message:
in India, I heard he banned two people for life for running!
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Date: Sat, Dec 23, 2000 at 00:48:16 (GMT)
From: Monmot
Email: None
To: Lesley
Subject: Running? Like in jogging? If so, that's nuts nt
Message:
mm
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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 20:50:19 (GMT)
From: GAC
Email: None
To: Monmot
Subject: Randy Prouty is a PRICK who probably will not ....
Message:
recall the incident. Apparently Randy Prouty suffers from selective amnesia. I don't have that problem and vividly recall him being a total prick from the first day I met him in 1972.

Anyway, here's Randy's latest endeavors:

World Investment Associates (WAIV) formerly
LA INVESTMENT ASSOCIATES INC

LICHTMAN, JONATHAN JAY
MALIBU, LANE
PROUTY, RANDALL H.
PROUTY, RANDALL

NOTE 2 LOAN RECEIVABLE ------------------------ On May 12, 2000, the Company entered into a letter of intent with Baja Timber S.A. ('Baja'), a Mexican corporation whereby the Company will provide financing in the form of loans totaling $25,000 to Baja as a means of financing Baja projects. The loan to Baja bears interest at the rate of 15% per annum and shall be for a term of 48 months or as otherwise agreed upon by the parties. The loan is secured by a Baja Timber stock option which gives the Company the right to purchase 50% of the issued and outstanding shares of Baja in exchange for 500,000 restricted common shares in the Company.

You've come a long way Randy..... {smirk}
At least three companies from northern California have been working through Mexican brokers for more than two years to gain access to the Sierra San Pedro Martir National Park and adjacent ejido lands (communally held land established after the Mexican revolution). Local informants say that a U.S. company has paid each ejido member $1,000 in exchange for logging rights on ejido lands.

NOTE 5 ASSET PURCHASE AGREEMENT --------------------------------- On August 11, 2000, HomeTrend, Inc. entered into an agreement to purchase the assets of Pyromid, Inc. (a company in bankruptcy). The purchase price of $200,000 is to be paid with a $5,000 deposit upon signing of the asset purchase agreement, a proposed credit of $25,000 from the previous company that withdrew their offer to purchase these assets, and $170,000 to be paid by November 20, 2000. World Associates, Inc. agreed to provide funds toward the purchase of these assets, to fund operational expenses and use its best efforts, along with HomeTrend, Inc., to raise funds to close the asset purchase and fund a plan of operations. The transaction is also collateralized by 102,000 shares of the Company's stock, which is owned by several shareholders. As of September 30, 2000, the Company has expended $49,416, of which $44,416 has been charged to operations and $5,000 has been recorded as a deposit on the asset purchase. World Associates, Inc. took an assignment of HomeTrend, Inc.'s agreement to acquire the Pyromid assets as security for this transaction. HomeTrend has agreed to fund a portion of the acquisition and operational costs in addition to World Associates, Inc.

Go figure .... along with buying peasants Randy promotes 'evironmentally safe' camp stoves!

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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 21:16:06 (GMT)
From: GAC
Email: None
To: GAC
Subject: Randy Prouty is a PRICK who probably will not ....
Message:
recall the incident. Apparently Randy Prouty suffers from selective amnesia. I don't have that problem and vividly recall him being a total prick from the first day I met him in 1972.
Anyway, here's Randy's latest endeavors:

World Investment Associates formerly
LA INVESTMENT ASSOCIATES INC

MALIBU, LANE
PROUTY, RANDALL

NOTE 2 LOAN RECEIVABLE ------------------------ On May 12, 2000, the Company entered into a letter of intent with Baja Timber S.A. ('Baja'), a Mexican corporation whereby the Company will provide financing in the form of loans totaling $25,000 to Baja as a means of financing Baja projects. The loan to Baja bears interest at the rate of 15% per annum and shall be for a term of 48 months or as otherwise agreed upon by the parties. The loan is secured by a Baja Timber stock option which gives the Company the right to purchase 50% of the issued and outstanding shares of Baja in exchange for 500,000 restricted common shares in the Company.

You've come a long way Randy..... {smirk}
At least three companies from northern California have been working through Mexican brokers for more than two years to gain access to the Sierra San Pedro Martir National Park and adjacent ejido lands (communally held land established after the Mexican revolution). Local informants say that a U.S. company has paid each ejido member $1,000 in exchange for logging rights on ejido lands.

NOTE 5 ASSET PURCHASE AGREEMENT --------------------------------- On August 11, 2000, HomeTrend, Inc. entered into an agreement to purchase the assets of Pyromid, Inc. (a company in bankruptcy). The purchase price of $200,000 is to be paid with a $5,000 deposit upon signing of the asset purchase agreement, a proposed credit of $25,000 from the previous company that withdrew their offer to purchase these assets, and $170,000 to be paid by November 20, 2000. World Associates, Inc. agreed to provide funds toward the purchase of these assets, to fund operational expenses and use its best efforts, along with HomeTrend, Inc., to raise funds to close the asset purchase and fund a plan of operations. The transaction is also collateralized by 102,000 shares of the Company's stock, which is owned by several shareholders. As of September 30, 2000, the Company has expended $49,416, of which $44,416 has been charged to operations and $5,000 has been recorded as a deposit on the asset purchase. World Associates, Inc. took an assignment of HomeTrend, Inc.'s agreement to acquire the Pyromid assets as security for this transaction. HomeTrend has agreed to fund a portion of the acquisition and operational costs in addition to World Associates, Inc.

Go figure .... along with buying peasants Randy promotes 'evironmentally safe' camp stoves!

World Associates, Inc.
http://www.pyromid.net/index.html

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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 06:46:03 (GMT)
From: No statute of limitations
Email: letitbeknown
To: Michael's Posr Re
Subject: Maharaji Killing a Man! (Michael must tell)!!!!!!!
Message:
As witnessed and attested to by Michael Dettmers as he says:
'I saw a man riding a bicycle pull out in front of Maharaji’s car. Seconds later the man went flying several yards into the ditch. He died instantly.'

{Maharaji was driving the car!}

*
*
*


He must be brought to trial for this!!!

This is a MURDER CASE!!!

A man died! This as a result of comming into contact by the vehical that was being controled by Sat Guru Maharaj Ji, {M}!

If Michael does not now report this to the appropriate authorities {now} then he is looking at possible legal actions against him as well, but we do hope that within the next week he will let us know that he has reported this and where he did indeed report this.

Murder has no statute of limitations, {no time limitation on filling a MURDER CASE!}

We should be hearing from Michael befor the end of this year!

MURDER! -------- Not to mention all of the other laws that were broken here!

We do not know for sure what’s what here, but that is why there is a system of laws and of Courts and they will say how much of a penalty (M) Guru Maharaj Ji must pay!

Michael----- This is now public, please respond.

12/21/2000

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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 10:59:41 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: No statute of limitations
Subject: Shut up.
Message:
This is not a murder case you shmuck. And stop saying it. All what it is is hearsay, nothing more. It great that MD said it, but what is the proof? Have you got any. I can say that someone is screwing 5 year olds. Is that a fact? Well the answer is no.

Even if it did happen, it is not a murder case, it a car accident, was not his fault, and it could happen to anyone including you. If there is a case, then it is regarding the fact that a switchover took place. No one is going to prove that without an investigation and witnesess. Have you got any?

Salam

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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 12:32:08 (GMT)
From: No statute of limitations
Email: thecourts
To: Salam
Subject: Shut up.
Message:
If anyone is the 'SMUCK' it is you, if you had read what I said, in full, you SMUCK, you would have read that I SAID:

'We do not know for sure what’s what here, but that is why there is a system of laws and of Courts and they will say how much of a penalty (M) Guru Maharaj Ji must pay!'

So SMUCK, re-read what I said if you can with out the obvious strangeness going on with you for what ever reason or lack there of.

Also note if you can that a wrongful death, is opened as a case of Murder until it is deemed otherwise and that this incident was as stated not correctly adjudicated so that would again open this up as a Murder case until it was legally stated otherwise. And yes there is fact here in that we have a material witness that has come forth and stated the situation in a public forum that deserves further legal steps.

This fact may or may not prove to hold up in a Court of Law, but then again it may hold up as a FACT in a Court of Law, but that is for a Court and or legal system to determine not you SMUCK.

As witnessed and attested to by Michael Dettmers as he says:
'I saw a man riding a bicycle pull out in front of Maharaji’s car. Seconds later the man went flying several yards into the ditch. He died instantly.'
{Maharaji was driving the car!}

How many seconds? 6, 9, 5? Many questions, but more importantly many more answers that may and again I say may show and prove in a Court of Law something more then a switch over, it may after an investigation find from someone in the car with M that he turned and was talking to someone in the car at that moment when he struck the PERSON and he then may find himself guilty of second degree MURDER! I and you do not know that, again as I have stated time and time again, it is for the Courts and or Legal system to determine, not you SMUCK!

But this is about the DEATH of a PERSON that may have DIED because {!!! possibly !!!} M took his eyes off of his responsibly of driving in a proper fashion.

Like he has taken his eyes off of his responsibilities to those that came to him in trust and he let them fall by the wayside.

Yes, it is for a Court and or legal system to make a determination here if he is guilty of 1st 2nd 3rd degree MURDER or just driving without a license! {WHAT EVER}

BUT MOST ASSUREDLY IT IS NOT UP TO YOU! You SHMUCK!


I find it curious that you feel so in need of minimizing and or trivializing this incident that resulted in a DEATH.

You the SMUCK said, 'Even if it did happen, it is not a murder case, it a car accident, was not his fault'

You say that based on your magical powers? You shmuck you do not know, so we will let the Legal system make its determination if at all possible. If that bothers you too bad, I do not care.


YOU SHMUCK


Again this is about the DEATH of a PERSON that may have DIED because {!!! possibly !!!} M took his eyes off of his responsibly of driving in a proper fashion.

Also you might be surprised at the number of persons here at this SITE that could attest to their witnessing M not acting in a responsible fashion.

Maybe you are not one I do not know, but I do know that you are a SHMUCK.


Maybe you are not one I do not know, but I do know that you are a SHMUCK.

Again this is about the DEATH of a PERSON that may have DIED because {!!! possibly !!!} M took his eyes off of his responsibly of driving in a proper fashion.

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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 17:38:38 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: No statute of limitations
Subject: Don't be ridiculous
Message:
Murder is an intentional killing. This is a far cry from that. So just chill out on that 'murder! muder!' shit, will ya'? It looks silly, quite frankly. Hysterical. Over the top.

What Maharaji did was very, very illegal and likewise immoral. And no, it's not just 'hearsay' either, Salam. Mike was there. He's a direct witness. Well, there is a hearsay quotient to this story, the part about the houseboy. But the rest is simply what Mike observed, experienced, witnessed.

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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 23:41:09 (GMT)
From: No statute of limitations
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Don't {YOU} be ridiculous
Message:
Silly, quite frankly, hysterical is what you are in your inane comments.

If you READ what I say and not just skim through it you would have known, I did NOT say a Murder was done in an intentional way, I leave that for the Courts and or Legal System to decide.

Also note what I said:
Also note if you can that a wrongful death, is opened as a case of Murder until it is deemed otherwise and that this incident was as stated not correctly adjudicated so that it would again open this up as a Murder Case until it was legally stated otherwise. And yes there is fact here in that we have a material witness that has come forth and stated the situation in a public forum that deserves further legal steps.

Also note that, MURDER is the unlawful taking of a human life and it is up to the Courts and or Legal System to determine if it was intentional in the first degree or too what degree if any he was culpable, his culpability is to be determined in a court of Law and not in your Crystal Ball.

GET IT!


ALSO, you say, 'And no, it's not just 'hearsay' either,' I will stop it right there, because I NEVER said anything about hearsay!

You are DAZED and CONFUSED. Take two aspirin and go to bed and CHILL OUT if you can!

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Date: Sun, Dec 24, 2000 at 00:31:23 (GMT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: No statute of limitations
Subject: you did say...
Message:
Whew, what a scorcher! What's your name? You did actually say...

MURDER! -------- Not to mention all of the other laws that were broken here!

Like, you seem to be saying the law on murder was broken. Geddit? If you didn't mean to say that -- as seems from your later...

this fact may or may not prove to hold up in a Court of Law, but then again it may hold up as a FACT in a Court of Law, but that is for a Court and or legal system to determine not you SMUCK.

...then perhaps you should uh, calm down a lot, you know? You got treated with affectionate contempt, and in view of the fact that you didn't mean what you said, that's not really such a bad deal, is it? :) Instead of noticing your contradiction you went into a number.

Fact is, Salam and Jim know what they're talking about, and they're openly committed against Rawat'a fraud and corruption. Why flame your friends in this enterprise?? Our passion for the truth will put an end to Rawat's abuses. If, that is, it is married with calm and practical reason.

Who are you, anyway?

JohnT

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Date: Sun, Dec 24, 2000 at 03:09:33 (GMT)
From: No statute of limitations
Email: notyou
To: JohnT
Subject: As it is ..................
Message:
You can misinterpret anything any way that you want, that’s your problem and you will have to live with it.

If you want to accept what I say, when I say that I am not saying at this point in time 'M' a murder in the first degree that has been found as such by a Court of Law, then do it, if you do not want to do it, again that is your problem.

If you would appropriately look at what I have said in the full and total context of what I put forth, ( within the four corners of the document and the saying goes } you will see that I have not put forth the following, {{that murder was done, that in the specific context of Murder, as in, (premeditated in the first degree as would be or has been upheld in the Courts)}}, as you have alluded too.

I have said: 'Also note that, MURDER is the unlawful taking of a human life and it is up to the Courts and or Legal System to determine if it was intentional in the first degree or too what degree if any he was culpable, his culpability is to be determined in a court of Law and not in your Crystal Ball.

GET IT!'

GET IT! And if you do not, again that is your problem......

And to your query of who am I, well to that, I say, I am not you.


And as to your determination to classifying me as not being calm or maybe you could have said congenial to the verbiage that you wish me to be calm/congenial too, well that is your SPIN on it, not mine.

So, you can take your words and keep them in your mouth or spit them out in your dreams, but do not try and put them in someone else’s mouth, GET IT!!???

I will decide whom my friends are, and not be calm/congenial as per your edicts, and take as a given that so and so are or are not my friends.

GET IT?

And if you do not, again, that is your problem.

tttktsbs

lol

Also you say, 'Fact is, Salam and Jim know what they're talking about'

lol

I again, trying to get through to you, point out to you, that for myself I will be the arbiter of what is or is not a FACT.


END of TRANSMISSION

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Date: Sun, Dec 24, 2000 at 18:41:41 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: No statute of limitations
Subject: Your terminology's confused, fella
Message:
I have said: 'Also note that, MURDER is the unlawful taking of a human life and it is up to the Courts and or Legal System to determine if it was intentional in the first degree or too what degree if any he was culpable, his culpability is to be determined in a court of Law and not in your Crystal Ball.

GET IT!'

That's simply untrue. Listen, I work in the field. I should know, eh? No big deal but that IS the way it is, isn't it? You learn the terms of your trade and, fella, 'murder' is the wrong word here. Live with it.

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Date: Sun, Dec 24, 2000 at 04:18:19 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: No statute of limitations
Subject: As it is ..................
Message:
You wrote:

'I will be the arbiter of what is or is not a FACT.'

Are you , 'Whatever-It-Is?'

Humbly,

nothing.

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Date: Sun, Dec 24, 2000 at 07:05:38 (GMT)
From: No statute of limitations
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: As it is ..................
Message:
Hi Stonor.

Or should I say, as did you, 'Humbly,

nothing.


lol

.
.
.


To whom it may concern:

All sovereign sentient Beings, (sovereign sentient Human Beings), are the Arbiters of what they accept as FACT and or fiction, yes,,,'Whatever-It-Is?',,, yes..................

This self awareness and self determination, is at the core of Being or not Being.

Stoner, I have some good vibes about you.
All the best.

.
.
.

To Be or not to Be, yes that is the question.

.
.
.

lol

.
.

All the BEST

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Date: Sun, Dec 24, 2000 at 16:31:01 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: No statute of limitations
Subject: As it is ..................
Message:
Hi No statute of limitations,

Yes, it's true that to some extent we appear to have freedom of choice and can be arbiters of what we accept as truth or fiction, that is, when our cultural and personal 'preferences' are not operating, which seems rare, IMHO. How often are we automatonic 'slaves' as opposed to 'sovereign sentient beings'?

'Whatever-It-Is' is 'GOD'. And yes, in one sense at least, we all are part of 'Whatever-It-Is' IMHO, but .........

All the best to you in 2001!

Anna

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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 23:25:43 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Don't be ridiculous
Message:
I do not know about that. Micheal Said it and went away. Why? I do not know. What is his intentions? Do not know either. Is he gonna stand witness on this? Well you are the lawyer. Until then it another news head line that has no base to it.

How you've been you ice crunching Canadian goat?

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Date: Sat, Dec 23, 2000 at 07:45:59 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Hi Salam
Message:
I'm heading up to our local winter wonderland Sunday. Lots of ice-crunching. Meanwhile, here's your Christmas gift. Click on one of the titles on the right:

Merry X-mas

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Date: Sat, Dec 23, 2000 at 09:01:37 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Ha ha, very funny
Message:
Just wondering, have you been to rehab or something? :)
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Date: Sat, Dec 23, 2000 at 16:41:07 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Ha Ha, HAMSTER GENOCIDE!!!!
Message:
Hi Salam,

You did notice HAMSTER GENOCIDE!!!!didn't you? (Well OK, 'Still life with rodents')

It even has an Easter Island statue!

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Date: Sat, Dec 23, 2000 at 18:15:30 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: Ha Ha, HAMSTER GENOCIDE!!!!
Message:
Anna,

I have not got my sound card installed. But only looking at the fat character face expression makes me laugh. Very funny, reminds me of blubber and all the premies, but then I do not know what is he talking about.

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Date: Sat, Dec 23, 2000 at 19:10:28 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Ha Ha, HAMSTER GENOCIDE!!!!
Message:
I went back and listened to it (I had my sound turned off the first time I went) - you're not missing much. Any excuse for a 'hamster' post - sort of like playing license plate games in the car (yes, as a kid ... !).
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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 05:34:51 (GMT)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: Michael's Posr Re
Subject: 1Vehicular Manslaughter;2Leaving Scene;3Perjury(nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 15:46:05 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: suchabanana
Subject: or 'HIT AND RUN' (with bribery by accomplices)(nt)
Message:
o-o
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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 00:21:13 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Michael's Posr Re
Subject: Shades of the Great Gatsby! (nt)
Message:
adsf
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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 19:13:21 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Also Shades of Bonfire of the Vanities (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Dec 23, 2000 at 18:32:06 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: The fork in the road
Message:
Road #1 - What premies are silently supposed to believe once hearing about this terrible incident (I just feel this, I did not get a memo or anything): Maharaji is beyond all the rules and regs of this world and is basically teflon in this world, to the point where he can even accidentally kill somebody and walk away from it. He is that powerful, influential, important and above the rest of the human race, not from human law, but from some divine right. The houseboy who took the rap is surely experiencing gallons of nectar, gigalumens of light, cosmic symphonies of music and constant Holy Name primoridal vibration. His present life after incarceration will be in the lap of luxury, perhaps stationed on the yacht and/or the jet. His next life will be as a child of either Maharaji or a very rich and influential PAM. He will always be in the Lord's grace.

Road #2 - What gut feelings and practical common sense suggests,
that there is a pretty serious moral and legal dilemma here involving someone who has told us all to be to be legally immaculate for the sake of our own lives and for his mission,
someone who has presented himself as an icon of love and the ultimate truth, and someone who said that common sense is most uncommon.

Wouldn't common sense dictate that something this heavy would probably come out sooner or later due to 'the gravity of the situation', as he used to say...the incredible burden that an eyewitness or participant must have had to carry as a result of this event?

I just remembered something that was allegedly said by Maharaji:
Someone was saying that honesty is the best policy, and as I heard it, Maharaji corrected them and said that devotion is the best policy. That would suggest that to lie for the him is OK even if it involves someone's death.

Deep stuff, whatever it is, cosmic reality or bullshit, it's deep.

Personally, I'm kinda turned off right now.

Time for an Egg Nog or something.

Happy Holidays.

Sandy

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Date: Sat, Dec 23, 2000 at 19:08:51 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: Thinking it out in its simplicity
Message:
After my last post, something came to me very clear. I have to break this down into steps to maintain the clarity and not get lost in prose, as is my propensity to do.

1) It happened.

2) It got covered up.

3) Why?

4) If he did it and owned up to it, I for one would have respected him a whole lot more than how it was handled.

5) Anyone who was sincerely interested in Knowledge would, in my estimation, more easily accept a teacher who was honest and out front than someone who hid things, especially things as heavy as this.

6) Yes, shit did, does, can and will happen, even to a Master.
I can live with that, and so could any sincere seeker of truth. But how the shit gets cleaned up and who it gets on shows alot about the folks involved.

7) I can totally understand why it took whatever time it did for Michael Dettmers to come out with this news. Trauma does weird and various things to different people.

I am open to comments from premies and ex-premies alike. After all that is what a Forum is about, right? I want to hear a premie explain away this whole fiasco, let's go guys and gals, I know you are listening and reading.

This story, as they say, has turned the corner. We are not talking about how somebody yelled at somebody in the ashram, how Maharaji smoked a cigarette, how a business got run...we are now talking about life and death. New ball park.

Sandy

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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 23:23:14 (GMT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Sir Dave/more for Truth site/MD speaks out...
Message:
Sir Dave-just wanted to let you know to be sure to check out the posts below from MD that follow the 'Question' thread...
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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 09:37:07 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: It's on the site - thanks la-ex
Message:
I've put it on the site in the Michael Dettmers section. Thanks for pointing it out to me.

.. Dave


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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 00:08:15 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com
To: la-ex
Subject: Sir Dave/more for Truth site/MD speaks out...
Message:
I've just got in and read the post about the road accident. And that is what I see it as - a road accident. Maharaji did not purposely kill someone - it was an accident. It may well have not been Maharaji's fault if the cyclist pulled out in front of him.

The fact that someone else took the rap is of course illegal. I think it's too easy to get hysterical about this. Maharaji just didn't want the publicity that would go with the truth about this unfortunate incident.

On the limited amount of information presented about the incident, I would disagree that 'Maharaji killed a man'. Maharaji was in a road accident and let someone else (willingly) take the heat. That is obviously not legal though.

I may put it on my site but I don't think it is all that relevant in itself. If Maharaji was driving the car that was involved in an accident in which a man died, you'd expect him to let someone else take the heat. It's what any 'perfect master' would do.

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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 20:52:32 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: No Dave, it's VERY serious....
Message:
Maybe it was an accident, but he did kill someone, and then he fled the scene and allowed someone else to take the rap, and then the mission paid off the family of the dead guy to shut them up.

How many people, in the regular course of their lives, even have the opportunity to have someone else, especially some lowly house-servant take the rap for them, and are so immoral and dishonest that they let them do it.

Maybe Maharaji would have been acquitted of manslaughter. Maybe not. But if he were any other kind of responsible adult human being, he would have gone to the authorities and faced the music. Instead, he had somebody else do it. Plus leaving the scene of an injury accident is a crime in and of itself, as is standing by and letting someone else take the rap.

This is just one extreme example of what Maharaji has done during his entire life. He lets other people take the rap for the messes he causes, he takes responsbility for nothing, and never admits he does anything wrong. He is a weasel, a spoiled child, and a spineless jerk.

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Date: Sat, Dec 23, 2000 at 23:00:03 (GMT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Dead right Joe....(nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Dec 23, 2000 at 22:40:22 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: excellent post Joe agree (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 03:41:01 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: FA -- my reply just plum disappeared -- all of it
Message:
God, take off for a bit and look what happens. Not only do posts pop up empty now, sometimes they just plain disappear. I just posted a reply to Dave here but that was half and hour ago and still there's nothing. And Barry Clarke tells me that he wrote long, thoughtful replies to Janet, Buzz, Gregg and Salam but they didn't show either.

??

Anyway, Dave, Maharaji did most definitely kill someone. If he wasn't drunk or otherwise negligent and it was just an accident, then it wasn't a homicide (i.e. unlawful killing), but it was a killing all the same. And yes, Maharaji was guilty of obstruction of justice as well as leaving the scene of an accident, two charges whose seriousness varies dramatically depending on the circumstances. These were serious circumstances and could well attract jail terms in Canada, the U.S. and a whole lot of other places. Maybe even significant jail terms, if he was lucky.

But what an asshole, huh? Setting up the 'houseboy' of all things. You put the word 'willingly' in parentheses but I think quotation marks is more like it. Really!

Shades of Sai Baba, is how I see it.

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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 09:43:31 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: FA -- my reply just plum disappeared -- all of it
Message:
I wonder how Danny will deal with this one. I don't know how strict the Indian authorities are about this sort of thing but yes, in most Western countries it would be a serious offence.

Indian authorities can be pretty corrupt though and can be bought off. You can get a driving licence in India quite easily. No need to take a test - you just pay the driving instructor and you've passed.

I lost quite a few posts here last night too.

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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 20:45:07 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Smart Cards....what is the real purpose?
Message:
I understand that Elan Vital is in the process of getting all the premies to get 'smart cards,' which I think are some kind of ID, so that those who are true premies and those who aren't can be screened when there is some kind of 'closed' cult event. I understand there are pictures on them, and perhaps other, identifying information. [Are there finger-prints?]

Other than another scam to make money, since I think Elan Vital is charging for these things, is this another chapter in the 'Maharaji-paranoia manual?' It seems like security is increasing at 'events' and smart cards can help prevent ex- or no-premies from hearing from the Lord about what is really going on, fundraising appeals, and other harrangues he gives before they are carefully edited into videos for a wider consumption.

As we know, some ex-premies got into those 'auto-knowledge-review' sessions some time ago and reported on them. Apparently, because the 'smart cards' were not yet issued, every premies had to get ANOTHER premie to vouch for them, that they were, indeed, premies before they could enter. Now it appears we have moved into a more high-tech age in Elan Vital's control fanaticism, synchronized of course.

Is there any other purpose for these 'smart cards?' Has anyone gotten one?

But this raises another question. Once someone has a 'smart card' if they move into momnot-land after obtaining said identity card, will Elan Vital then revoke the card of someone who has the audacity to speak out against Maharaji? Will the 'cards' be given out automatically in those 'auto-knowledge' sessions? Will possession of 'the card' be the new determining piece of evidence that someone really is, not only a premie, but a premie with the proper 'understanding?'

I do have a suggestion, however. I suggest that any of you ex-premies who have remained anonymous to obtain one of those cards. I think it's important that a certain number of people retain the ability to find out what is really going on and report on it.

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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 22:55:33 (GMT)
From: Mickey the Apocalyptic
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: ¡¡¡¡¡It's the mark of the Beast!!!!!
Message:
Well, not really, but it does sound like another method for our Lard to control thangs. It reminds me of those Fundies who think that credit cards are the mark of the Beast and that a cashless society is the sign of The End. The true sign of The End is Another Bush in Casa Blanca.
Mickey the Apocalyptic Prophet
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Date: Sat, Dec 23, 2000 at 03:52:39 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Mickey the Apocalyptic
Subject: Mickey
Message:
Dear Mickey,

Greetings to you this this Holiday season. I read your post, don't know if you read mine below about some 'eye-opening links' about the smartcard, but I highly recommend checking them out.
Some are business-based and some are esoteric-based. I have copied the esoteric ones to you here in case you'd like to check them out. You may feel a more sobering air about the smart card after looking at these sights.

www.glondon.com/essay1.htm

http://members.aol.com/gklentprs/warning.htm

I hope you have a really good Christmas, whatever that means to you.

Sincerely,

Sandy

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Date: Sat, Dec 23, 2000 at 00:06:47 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Mickey the Apocalyptic
Subject: pobre Panama...
Message:
Yo Mickey!

Where'd you get those upside down !!!'s?

Let's hope the shrub doesn't have it in for Panama like his old man did. Hopefully, by now the Bush crime family has the drug trade under control and won't need the storm troopers to quell the competition.

P.S. No me he olvidado de las muchachas. Necesito vender una guitarra para hacer el dinero para esto. Pronto, hermano, pronto. Feliz Navidad !

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Date: Sat, Dec 23, 2000 at 05:21:11 (GMT)
From: Your friend
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Español, eh? OT
Message:
Como aprendiste español???

Gracias por haber respondido a mi mensaje preguntando en que mensaje Dettmers explico como el hijo de perra mato un ser humano.

Amor y paz para ti. Feliz Navidad (si lo festejas) Feliz aAño Nuevo!!!!

s

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Date: Sat, Dec 23, 2000 at 16:08:31 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Your friend
Subject: Hola amiga
Message:
Gracias por haber respondido a mi mensaje preguntando en que mensaje Dettmers explico como el hijo de perra mato un ser humano.

De nada. 'hijo de perro' hahhaha! Es la verdad!

Amor y paz para ti. Feliz Navidad (si lo festejas) Feliz aAño Nuevo!!!!

Muchas gracias. Usted tambien.

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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 15:28:25 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Smart Cards....what is the real purpose?
Message:
Is there any other purpose for these 'smart cards?' Has anyone gotten one? -Joe

Hello Joe,

My first post on this came out blank yesterday , so let's see what happens to this one...I have done some research on this.

Other use of smart/chip cards:

1) homing device - locator (They/ve been experimenting w/pets)

2) transition between the new cash (with readable stripe embedded in it that scanners can pick up) and proposed chip embedded into humans (again, this has been in experimentation with pets)

3) can be read by security scanners like at airports, and any high-tech hand held models pointed at you

4) what appears to be a quick and easy timesaving device is really a means to be totally located, read, and known by anyone who has the technology to do so.

5) Don't know exactly why EV is so into this.

There used to be alot of websites about this. Some have just mysteriously disappeared. I have some url's I will check to see if functional and post them to you on the subject.

Take much care,

Sandy

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Date: Sat, Dec 23, 2000 at 23:32:33 (GMT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: I just bought my children magnets to go in the
Message:
Christmas stockings. (true)

This sort of info freaks me , until I remember the lo-tek solution.

I do hope you're not right about the big brother scenario you hint at , but if you are , senior citizen terrorism will become a force to be reckoned with.

Why EV should get into this , when their mandate is to expedite the Golden Age , I can't imagine.

Sorry.....Duh... Golden.. I've just got it.

pax

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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 16:05:50 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Some eye-opening links about the smart card
Message:
Joe,

I don't know how much or little EV or Maharaji are aware of the links below, but I have not offered this information to them since, as I have said previously, I sincerely thought it would be presumptuous of me to think I knew something that someone omniscient did not know. After all, I'm just a little guy with not much money or clout in this world....

But since you asked the question, here are some links that will hopefully answer your questions and then some. Some of the information starts off as dry financial stuff, but for your own sake, review it all, even if just to look over briefly, then let what catches your eye take you...

A very merry and real Christ-mass to all right in your HEART!

Take great care,
Sandy

Links re: Smartcards (fasten your seat belts and put your trays in an upright position, there will be turbulence ahead):

www.glondon.com/essay1.htm

www.businessweek.com/1998/16/b3574070.htm

www.visa.com/au/who/main.htm

www.visa.com/nt/chip/main.htm

www.visa.com/nt/ecomm/main.htm

www.mastercard.com/cgi-bin/excite/AT-Globalsearch.cgi

www.mastercard.com/consumer/mcu/credit_b4mondex.htm

http://insight.mcmaster.ca/org/efc/pages/mondex

www.mondexusa.com

http://members.aol.com/gklentprs/warning.htm

Play particular attention to Mondex, they are behind much of this. Also, notice the butterfly, which will be a holographic symobl on smartcards. The butterfly represents the human soul.
I'd be interested in hearing your feedback. This is endgame stuff. Time to pay great attention to what is happening around us AND within us.

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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 16:19:34 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Joe, Just one thing...
Message:
The last link on the list has some hyperlinks to other places that are talking about a particular way of manifesting your faith in God. I just wanted you and anybody else here to know that I am not a member of any of these places, am not advocating a certain way to be, and I just put that primary link here to bring to light things about the smart cards and the chips that are on the drawing board to follow, if the geniuses running the show have their way. I look forward to communicating more about this with you, if you wish.

All the best, and I mean ALL THE BEST,

Sandy

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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 23:10:30 (GMT)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Smart Cards. I've got one, but I'm a fool
Message:
The official line is that it is to make registration and entry to events easier and quicker. In India it works a treat.
I don’t know exactly what info it contains, but I’m sure it is smart enough to contain a hell of a lot of info that I might not have volunteered. I had a 1984 Big brother chill when I filled out the form. (and now it’s 2001!)
The info I was asked for included where and when I got K, from whom, any other names I have had, plus personal details, address phone etc.
When tapped against a device (I don’t know the exact jargon) at an event, it is so smart that it can tell if you are bona fide and if you’ve paid, and what your seat no. is. If all’s well, in you go .I used it in Harrogate in September.
It just looks like a smooth piece of plastic with a photo, no magnetic strips, no holograms, very smart.
It remains to be seen if I will be blacklisted through the smart card and if I can be bothered to find out!!! I’ve spent enough time and money following him around the planet already.
I’ve just watched the video of Harrogate, it confirmed my memory of it…pure unadulterated crap….sorry, there was maybe 1% good stuff.
Is there a facility on this site to post video clips? You should hear this stuff, he’s really lost it. If he ever found it!!
Kelly
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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 23:36:10 (GMT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Kelly
Subject: Smart Cards. I've got one, I'm a fool/Maybe not?
Message:
Kelly-
Joe talked about a few of us having cards to get into programs in order to keep up with the latest of m's coninuing dia-tripe....might not be a bad idea to hold it...also, it would be interesting to see if someone had a card, was known on this forum by name, and then tried to get into a program...would they let them in?....maybe we could each have our own army of security guards buzzing around us...(more service for the premies...)

Also, the 'training session' video from Atlanta that you have...is it the US or European type?...I was just wondering because Michael Dettmers and I were talking about viewing that video and dissecting it, piece by piece, here on the EPO site...
if it's US type, would you be willing to ship it across the pond?..or do you know if we can order one here?(might be easier)

Finally, I DO think that streaming video should DEFINITELY be added to this site,(similar to what m has done on his site), with little pictures of someone talking in 30 second sound bites, each picture box relates a different story, sort of a teaser for the rest of the story, which could then follow in written form.
Video is a very effective way of introducing someone to a topic of interest very quickly, especially first time browsers...
There are QUITE a number of stories that are worth hearing and knowing about....as the dalai lama says 'spy on your guru'..

BE well,
La-ex

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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 07:14:54 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: la-ex
Subject: Smart Cards. I've got one, I'm a fool/Maybe not?
Message:
You may be a fool,
Just don't drink the kool,
Aid.

Steve

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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 07:00:43 (GMT)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: Sorry pal , it's PAL
Message:
The video tape I have is a recording of a recording of a satellite broadcast and is in UK PAL format.As far as I know, they haven't issued it as a video. I will investigate getting it copied into a US format, it must be possible. Can anyone help?
I would be very happy to ship it across for disection!

love kelly

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Date: Sat, Dec 23, 2000 at 15:47:55 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Kelly
Subject: Find a tri-standard video player or convert it
Message:
from PAL to NTSC with a standard converter gizmo. My video expert friend just adivsed me on this. Tri-standard players can be rented.

Take care,

Sandy

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Date: Sat, Dec 23, 2000 at 06:08:36 (GMT)
From: Buzz
Email: None
To: Kelly
Subject: Sorry pal , it's PAL
Message:
Hi Kelly,
Where area of the UK are you in?
Regards
Buzz
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Date: Sat, Dec 23, 2000 at 14:01:01 (GMT)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: Buzz
Subject: Sorry pal , it's PAL
Message:
Hi Buzz
I don,t really want to say here at the moment, does someone have your e-mail or phone no. so we could make contact? Patrick has mine, also Marianne.
all the best
Kelly
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Date: Sat, Dec 23, 2000 at 15:55:42 (GMT)
From: Buzz
Email: Geminitiger69@hotmail.com
To: Kelly
Subject: Sorry pal , it's PAL
Message:
Hi Kelly,
Email address above,hope to hear from you.
Cheers
Buzz
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Date: Sat, Dec 23, 2000 at 20:07:25 (GMT)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: Buzz
Subject: E-mailed you nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 16:35:29 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Kelly
Subject: PAL, NTSC, HDTV, etc
Message:
European standard is called PAL
USA standard is called NTSC
New stuff is out called HDTV.

Any self-respecting video editing/post-production house should be able to help you convert it from one standard to another.

Sandy

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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 00:08:46 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: What is a smart card?
Message:
What is a smart card?

The smart card is one of the latest additions to the world of information technology. Similar in size to today's plastic payment card, the smart card has a microprocessor or memory chip embed-dedin it that, when coupled with a reader, has the processing power to serve many differentapplications. As an access-control device, smart cards make personal and business data available only to the appropriate users. Another application provides users with the ability to make a pur-chase
or exchange value. Smart cards provide data portability, security and convenience.

Memory vs. microprocessor

Smart cards come in two varieties: memory and microprocessor. Memory cards simply store data and can be viewed as a small floppy disk with optional security. A microprocessor card, on the
other hand, can add, delete and manipulate information in its memory on the card. Similar to a miniature computer, a microprocessor card has an input/output port operating system and harddisk with built-in security features.

Contact vs. contactless

Smart cards have two different types of interfaces: contact and contactless. Contact smart cardsare inserted into a smart card reader, making physical contact with the reader. However, contact-lesssmart cards have an antenna embedded inside the card that enables communication with thereader without physical contact. A combi card combines the two features with a very high levelof security.

How are smart cards used?

cards help businesses evolve and expand their products and services in a changing globalmarketplace. The scope of uses for a smart card has expanded each year to include applicationsഊin a variety of markets and disciplines. In recent years, the information age has introduced an array of security and privacy issues that have called foradvanced smart card security applications.

Want to know more?

http://ecommerce.about.com/smallbusiness/ecom

Just in case EV thinks were are only nice people.

Maybe I should build a card reader, What do you recon?

Salam

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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 00:16:55 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: How to make them
Message:
In case you're wondering how to make them, see

http://www.smarttoolz.com/

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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 20:51:35 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Joe
Subject: Smart Cards....what is the real purpose?
Message:
I was still an active person when the smart card idea was announced. I have to say that I can't and don't want to try and read the mind of the perfect shmuck to figure out what the true rationale is. But it is clear in hindsight that I was jolted when the application form came out. I took one but just couln't bring myself to fill it out. Bong - jolt into 'what's wrong here' mode. Believe me, I've had some very major jolts in the past which I've talked about on the forum. But for some reason this one was big. Wrong idea at the right time.

Steve

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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 22:00:15 (GMT)
From: JTF
Email: None
To: Steve Quint and Joe
Subject: Smart Cards....what we last heard!
Message:
Back in the early fall when these smart cards were first introduced, EV began taking applications in North America. There was a fee charged-NATURALLY. They then announced that there would be a delay in getting the North American cult members there card as there was a more urgent need for them elsewhere. My question would be-have the North American cult members received there cards yet?
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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 06:16:11 (GMT)
From: Ted
Email: None
To: JTF
Subject: Smart Cards....what we last heard!
Message:
Doing this all over the world?
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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 08:41:32 (GMT)
From: janet of venice
Email: None
To: Ted
Subject: i demanded my materials back and a refund
Message:
and i got it, too. some of you might remember me posting this a few months ago here. i told EV that they took my info and my money in april and it had been 6 months and no card was forthcoming, and that the only person in the world who had the right to that identification was me. i told them if there was no card, then return my materials at once or face charges of identity theft in los angeles court.
i got my photos back, my applocation, and a refund check for 30 dollars. i havent cashed the check yet, but i shall.
note to salam--i swear,man--just when i have taken you for our village idiot, you go and surprise me with your brilliant research. hell yes, build that reader. we oughta know what's on what cards we have!!! don't you all agree? more than one side can play this game. can a card input a virus into the system, if programmed right?? or encrypt all the database and render it inaccessible?
hee hee...trojan horses, anybody?
no, by all means, don't get rid of those cards,kelly, steve...we need undercover operatives.
build that scanner salam.go for it.
alls fair in love and war.
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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 11:29:59 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: janet of venice
Subject: Who you calling village idiot?
Message:
Mate, i've been fucking computers before anyone even heard of them. Villige idiot she says. And what are? A major elephant bum.

Yes, you can put all sort of elephant dung in them, including a virus if you want to. The card is like a miniture computer, has a processor, memory and interface. building the reader is gonna be extra seeing that you called me a village idiot. Sheesh, that was not very nice.

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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 16:44:15 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: salam_au@iprimus.com.au
To: Everyone
Subject: Am on top of the world
Message:
I just had a check up for traces of the Rawat virus. Non is detected.

I’ve been finding it hard to post lately; it could be because I am tired. So am gonna take it as it comes. The forum is smelling like a toilet. Not sure what has happened, but lately it looks like there is no direction. A lot of people have been posting, some are obviously using different aliases, I think that is really confusing.

Some have been trying to cast their shadow on the forum and others with their latest realization of what life is all about. This really sucks. The way I look at thing is very simple, it's either black or white. If it's neither then I do not want to know. Ofcourse you can argue about taking prisoners for negotiation, not me.

I also have found that Rawat’s sexual relations are a real eye opener. His other habits of drinking, smoking, X rating premies and the like strike a big cord in me.

The question that I ask myself (really I don’t ask it, it pops out) is what if I was wrong and fatrat is real. If so, I am definitely up to some big time slave labor in hell. But then, I say to myself, so what? He could be god in a human body and if he sends me to hell, he is only pissing me off some more, which is not gonna look good in my book. I am certain that there are some of you that believe in god, but at present I do not. A not so long ago I thought the techniques of meditation where better than meeting a blond on an airline trip, not anymore. But then some deluded soul may say, so what is the meaning of all this and what about spirituality? Well again I say what about it? I never met spirituality, do not know if it’s a he or she, and I don’t feel obliged to accept it.

Interesting way of living, no god, no spiritual believes, no crap filling my head, no Indian trip. No nothing.

Before I met my doom (i.e. blubber) I had the capacity to think. I would explore a lot of ideas and enter into a lot of debate. I was an existentialist. I believed that everything is absurd, nothing had a meaning, life is only a beginning and an end, and I read a lot of the written books. I just do not understand how after so many years thinking and believing in god, spirit, gurus and every other cloud that passes by; I have suddenly reverted to my old self, but shit happens.

So, you may want to ask me, but how do you cope? Easy, empty head has no worries, that is how. Does someone have to believe in god to be alive, happy, breath, laugh, be angry, shit or hate? I really do not find it hard not to have a purpose in life. Maybe we are not supposed to have a purpose, maybe the brainwashing goes further than just being in a cult. The question is when and where did religion come into our lives? It’s certainly old, and am saying old old, what 10,000 years, 15,000 or maybe even more. And hasn’t it changed. In the distant past, god was a woman or at least we think he/she was. Even in recorded time, female gods were abundant. Suddenly all that changes and god become a man, then shit happens and god gets killed, while others say he was not born in the first place. Lastly, some attractive idea appears that says that god was and is always present among us (where is he?). Now is not that ridicules? Imagine this character that made everything, the earth, solar system, the galaxies, other universes and things that we can not imagine, coming to this planet in a physical body, a greasy one for that. What is the mechanics of this? Does he also go to the marshians? I wonder what he tells them? What about the people on alpha santori?

There might be some secret to this that I have not found yet, but for god to come in the form of blubber and his like I think is an insult to life itself. Why? Well I find it hard to understand why would god wants to do with drinking alcohol, have 100 million dollars somewhere, stick his dick in every blond he sees. I also do not understand why god can not talk straight. Why he does not care about his creation?

I am not found of America or it’s president, but MR and Mrs. Clint-on blessed me. I had the honor of having to visit the White House this evening on TV as a special treat for this god given holiday. At some point MR Clint-on goes into the kitchen and calls everyone by their names. He even put his hands on their shoulder posing for the camera and making friendly gestures. I thought that was good. Here is the most powerful man on this planet feeling at home with some cooks. Yet look at the blubbers, and in particular our blubber, above from a small circle of ass liking worms that surronds him, he has no friends. How can he claim to be god (which he does by the way, in case you’re wondering)?

So there you go. I feel better now after rambling incoherently and in case you’re wondering, do not worry, Rawat still sucks.

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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 05:41:37 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Am on top of the world
Message:
Dear Salam,
I read this this morning and just wanted to tell you that for being someone who is, 'mental', your term, you sound like you are doing well with all this. Finding your own way. That's what I do too.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 10:52:28 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Thank you Robyn
Message:
At least someone appreciates what am saying. Not like those other mutly lot below :)
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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 18:37:13 (GMT)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: I just fell off the bottom! nt
Message:
Aaaaaaargh, clunk
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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 08:46:22 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: Jai_Choix@yahoo.com
To: Kelly
Subject: need a hand getting back up??????here's mine
Message:
wha hoppen?? you ok??
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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 09:59:00 (GMT)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: to janet and Salam
Message:
Thanks janet,that's very kind, i was just going to post to you that its OK I'm back on top, but now you are!!!
It was just a silly joke for Salam about his post being on the top of the forum, while my last one had just dropped off the bottom.
And I agree, Salam please stay, I was about to compose a serious response to your post, but you know what it's like, the next thing I knew, we were involved in a murder investigation! This was very tiring and I had to go to bed.
janet,don't you think satpal reads this site? I'd have thought so
love kelly
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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 17:34:52 (GMT)
From: Joy
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Am on top of the world
Message:
Salam, you are a cutie (our resident comedian)! Thanks for starting my day off with a good laugh!
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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 23:20:27 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Joy
Subject: I do not think I am gonna post here anymore
Message:
No one takes me seriously anymore. That was a bloody summary of my life story, right up to yesterday.

Why do we have to be serious anyway? Nothing in life deserves it. Take as it come.

But then if I go who is gonna make up your day. but I have to consult my astrologer. Will let you know.

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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 08:47:50 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: noooo-don't go! we need you here.stay please!
Message:
no one is like you.
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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 10:35:10 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: It's gonna cost you.....nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 16:15:48 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Hi, Seasons Greetings and a book recommendation
Message:
I noticed that my old music buddy, Barry Clarke, posted a 'why-in-the-world?' post the other day. Always a good question. One answer, though, just has to be the humor inherent in watching this perverse, bloated cult 'represent' in its desparate endgame. I love a good joke. That's why I love the Onion. (Did you see this week's story about the poor father who built his son a homemade Christmas gift out in the garage -- a Sony Playstation 2? Now that's funny!)

But what's funnier than reading Turner below? Nothing, perhaps, except waiting for Roger or Anth or Nigel's reply. Barry, all I can tell you is that this is a wonderful, dark flavour for the cultivated palate. (Sorry).

Anyway, Season's Greetings everyone. I've been reading this book I got on Amazon,'Influence : The Psychology of Persuasion'
by Robert B. Cialdini. The reviews impressed me and the book really does have some great stuff pertinent in the extreme to our joint misadventure. There's stuff about cults (i.e. TM, Jonestown) but the book's more generally about all the classic ways we trick each other into buying or buying into shit when we should, by all accounts, know better.

Here's the excerpt from Amazon:

'One of the reasons reciprocation can be used so effectively as a device for gaining another's compliance is its power. The rule possesses awesome strength, often producing a 'yes' response to a request that, except for an existing feeling of indebtedness, would have surely been refused. Some evidence of how the rule's force can overpower the influence of other factors that normally determine whether a request will be complied with can be seen in a second result of the Regan study, Besides his interest in the impact of the reciprocate rule on compliance Regan was also interested in how liking for person affects the tendency to comply with that person's request. To measure how liking toward how affected the subjects' decisions to buy his raffle tickets, Regan had them fill out several rating scales indicating how much they liked Joe. He then compared their liking responses with the number of tickets they had purchased from Joe. There was significant tendency for subjects to by more raffle tickets from Hoe the more they liked him. But this alone is hardly a startling finding. Most of us would have guessed that people are more willing to do a favor for someone they like.

The interesting thing about the Regan experiment, however, is that the relationship between liking and compliance was completely wiped out in the condition under which subjects had been given a Coke by Joe. For those who owed him a favor, it made no difference whether they liked him or not; they felt a sense of obligation to repay him, and they did. The subjects in that condition who indicated that they disliked Joe bought just as many of his tickets as did those who indicated that they liked him. The rule for reciprocity was so strong that it simply overwhelmed the influence of a factor - liking for the requester - that normally affects the decision to comply.'

A few other things later. Gotta go.

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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 17:39:39 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Yes, that is an excellent book.
Message:
Influence : The Psychology of Persuasion by Robert B. Cialdini.


So how's it hangin, Jim? Blessings to you and Laurie (pagan, of course.)

Your 'way too crude for me,' friend (?)

-gerry

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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 00:23:05 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Jim
Subject: Jim Who? FA, block him now, please! (nt)
Message:
lkj
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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 20:29:06 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Hey, look who's back!
Message:
Hi Jim,

Seasons Greetings to you as well. Another book you might want to check out is Howard (Lucifer Principle) Bloom's latest, The Global Brain. I haven't read it yet, but it got great reviews and is supposed to be the antithesis to Dawkin's Selfish Gene. According to Bloom, we're really all one organism, all of us combined, that strives for the health and wealth of the whole rather than the parts, which would be us as individuals. Some say Bloom's ideas are farfetched but everyone agrees that they're fascinating to listen to. I hope to check it out soon for myself and see. Anyway, good to see you back. Hope you feel reinvigorated for another bout on the forum.

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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 18:42:06 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Happy Hannukah
Message:
Hi Jim,

Good to see you back. Hope all is well in lumberjackland and you have a good holiday.

I'm stuck in the 'business centre' at Schipol Airport at the moment- flight delayed- with a bagful of presents. I hope I don't have to open them all at customs. It will spoil the surprise.

have a good one

anth bedecked in Holly and Ivy (these Dutch waitresses...)

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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 16:46:43 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Gratitude/guilt trips/covert aggr./'reciprocity'
Message:
Gratitude/guilt trips/covert aggression/'reciprocity'?

(from the Amazon excerpt)

'The interesting thing about the Regan experiment, however, is that the relationship between liking and compliance was completely wiped out in the condition under which subjects had been given a Coke by Joe. For those who owed him a favor, it made no difference whether they liked him or not; they felt a sense of obligation to repay him, and they did. The subjects in that condition who indicated that they disliked Joe bought just as many of his (raffle) tickets as did those who indicated that they liked him. The rule for reciprocity was so strong that it simply overwhelmed the influence of a factor - liking for the requester - that normally affects the decision to comply.')

Sounds like a lot of people are confusing apples with oranges in their reciprocity equations!

Very interesting - thanks Jim.

Happy holidays,

Anna

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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 16:32:35 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Hello, where have you been?..nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 16:24:30 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Nice to see you back! (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 15:58:21 (GMT)
From: Prem Pal Singh Rawat's
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Pimps.... yeah.... our Artie you bros and hos
Message:
'Pimp for Prem Life'

Every time I rhyme bout a situation
its about being a pimp for Prem cause thats my occupation
its a 24/7 -365 , do it all the time
cause thats the way that we ride

ATL playas know what I mean
when we carry the 44 wit the laser light beam
so get out the way if you aint on our team
cause when we ridin-- we gots the gangsta lean
when youre a pimp for Prem you gotta be fresh
wit the tight white nikes and the jeans sharply creased
in the pocket got a wallet thats fat wit cheese
it sounds kinda nice but it aint that easy
tryin to pimp the premies with ex-ers all around
them clowns always tryin to halt the progress in town
just point the chrome gat make their draws turn brown
in the gangsta mazaratti wit the deep bass sound

[chorus 2x]
Pimp for Prem life, gotta do it all the time,
oohh, Pimp for Prem life, tryna run up on a dime,
Pimp for Prem life, pushin a mazza wit a 9,
pimp for Prem life, havin da-shan always shinin'

Pimpin for Prem life,... ooohh pimp for Prem life,... Pimp for Prem life......
ooohh pimp for Prem life,...... pimp for Prem life......(fades to background)

This life is premie hos and clothes, jewelry thats gold
bulletproof glass and chrome fo- fos
fast money ,fast honeys its what its all for
if you aint biness minded ,then it aint for you bro
dont even show ,if you cant make your assets grow
in these streets of PAMS and drugs play it like a pro
PAMS tearin up clubs all out on the floor
where you gottta watch your back so you dont go
down south, show respect so you wont get smoked
in your house , spread out, expired in the door
dont even come out here and let your hair blow
cause when you act stupid -you will catch mo pro
frontin like a G when you just a po dope
keep an eye on your dough and make a note
with the lesson laid, pimpin for prem, is the life fo sho.

Pimpin for Prem life,... ooohh pimp for Prem life,... Pimp for Prem life......
ooohh pimp for Prem life,...... pimp for Prem life......(fades to background)

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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 13:20:26 (GMT)
From: Mary
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Today Show
Message:
Did anybody see Today Show? There was a guy in the crowd with a sign that said 'Who is Guru Maharaj Ji?', with a picture from the book of the same name. As camera panned across the crowd the picture turned over and there was something else on the other side, but I couldn't see it. Did anybody see it?
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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 13:46:08 (GMT)
From: Mary M
Email: None
To: Mary
Subject: Today Show
Message:
Hi Mary,

I didn't see it but just wanted posters to know that you're not me and you'll most likely get a few more answers ;-)

Mary M

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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 16:27:48 (GMT)
From: jondon
Email: None
To: Mary M
Subject: Today Show
Message:
The reverse side of the picture said 'Maharaj Ji is a fraud' with a photo of Maharaj Ji with pie in face from Penthouse article. Will try again tomorrow. Stay tuned, same time, different channel.
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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 15:23:03 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Mary M
Subject: It must be Jondon
Message:
See Jondon's cryptic message below. He/she must be xmasing in the Big Apple. Too bad you didn't see the entire message. What did the person look like?
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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 18:10:41 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Ah yes, Christmas in New York
Message:
Even since I saw Miracle on 34th St, I've wanted to spend the holidays in New York City. Three years ago, I finally did. It snowed a perfect snow while I was there, (although very little snow ever accumulates on New York's busy and warm streets and sidewalks).

So, Jondon, what else are you doing while there? Hope you are having fun!

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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 19:08:52 (GMT)
From: Hey Sign Maker!
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Who is GMJ?
Message:
Don't forget to add WWW.EX-PREMIE.ORG to the next sign.

Congratulations by the way. Very inspired.

Marianne

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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 04:33:39 (GMT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Hey Sign Maker!
Subject: Who is GMJ--You are amazing
Message:
Thank you so much for taking the time to provide this service. The Lard needs all the publicity he can get.

I can't believe he killed a man and didn't suffer any consequences. To think I kissed that joker's feet.

Reeling in disgust, I remain

Gail

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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 12:39:13 (GMT)
From: Larkin
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: A midlife's tale...
Message:
Life can be tough for a Lord of Creation
Faced with the prospect of sexual stagnation
The spread round the middle, the calories mounting
Those pants getting larger, cholesterol counting
The wife has a headache - or is it a lover?
You take to the bottle those urges to smother
And dream of a mission as wanton as Krishna’s
Entwined in the arms of your lady parishioners...

So pack me a chillum and pour the tequila
If anyone asks, you just tell ‘em it’s lila
Although I’ve the best that one man could afford
- I still need me a friend who will pimp for the Lord...

To some it may look like mere sexual predation
A darshan too far, just to ease my frustration
And my style of dating might not be the norm
But – hell – don’t they worship my physical form?
And if middle-age fears of erectile dysfunction
Are not aided much by the long, liquid luncheon
If I’m no Adonis when fully undressed
The size of my wallet still leaves them impressed…

So pack me a chillum and pour the tequila
If anyone asks, you just tell ‘em it’s lila
Although I’ve the best that one man could afford
- just give me a guy who will pimp for the Lord...

The house it looks good and the kids doin fine
The gardens are fruitful, the cellar has wine
The cook knows his olives, the wife knows her place
But – shit – the true Master still needs his own space
So fix me a suite in a five star hotel
Make sure that she’s blonde and is pretty as hell
And if she’s distressed by my sudden exposure
Make sure she’s signed something about non-disclosure…

Then pack me a chillum and pour the tequila
If anyone asks, you just tell ‘em it’s lila
Although I’ve the best that one man could afford
- God send me a mug who will pimp for the Lord...

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Date: Sat, Dec 23, 2000 at 01:17:09 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Larkin
Subject: A midlife's tale...Great Larkin! Needed that::)nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 13:50:51 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Larkin
Subject: Another Larkin Gem--thanks.--nt
Message:
dsfh
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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 04:39:08 (GMT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Larkin
Subject: A midlife's tale...You did it again!
Message:
Thanks for the laugh!
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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 23:23:59 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Larkin
Subject: A midlife's tale added to the House
Message:
House of Maharaji Drek soothing Songs and Poems.

I'm trying to interest EverSound in a little cross marketing of their sounds and our sounds, but they just don't understand the possibilities.

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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 23:42:30 (GMT)
From: Carly Simon
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: I give rights for'you're so vain'(writers?)nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 20:34:51 (GMT)
From: D.Capitated
Email: None
To: Larkin
Subject: I laughed my head off! nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 14:26:35 (GMT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: Larkin
Subject: Another Rollicking Rhyme! What fun! -nt-
Message:
no text
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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 14:44:05 (GMT)
From: kap
Email: qwerty@pdai.com
To: anyone
Subject: oh its guru this and gura that and guru your so --
Message:
Oh its Guru this and Guru that and guru your so wide . buts its help me maharaji, when the necture doesnt slide! Yes its its help me maharaji, when the third eyes not inside! Oh wevee belted you and flayed you ,but by the livin God what made you.you've a quicker cock then i have Guru dav!
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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 12:02:05 (GMT)
From: JTF
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Is rawat a serial bully?
Message:
Detailed profile of the serial bully

The serial bully also:

is selfish and acts out of self-interest, self-aggrandisement and self-preservation at all times; everything can be traced back to the self - even the seemingly innocuous 'How are you today?' translates to 'Is there any comeback on me as to how you're feeling today?'
is insensitive, often callously indifferent to the needs of others, and especially when others are experiencing difficulty (vulnerability is a major stimulant to the serial bully)
is unable and unwilling to reciprocate any positive gesture
sees anyone attempting to be conciliatory as a sucker to be exploited
uses criticism, humiliation, etc in the guise of addressing shortfalls in performance - in reality, these are for control and subjugation, not for performance enhancement
appears to be intelligent but often performs poorly in academic or professional roles, despite appearances; the intelligence is focused exclusively on deviousness, cunning, scheming, manipulation, evasiveness, deceptiveness, quick-wittedness, craftiness, self-centredness, etc
is unable to maintain confidentiality, often breaching it with misrepresentation, distortion and fabrication
distorts, twists, concocts and fabricates criticisms and allegations, and abuses the disciplinary procedures - again, for control and subjugation, not for performance enhancement
is untrustworthy and unable to trust others - this partly explains the compulsion for excessive monitoring
is drawn to positions of power and abuses that power
is autocratic and dictatorial, often using phrases like 'you shouldn't...' or 'you ought to...'
may appear superficially competent and professional at their job, but behind the facade is inadequate, inept, poor at their job, often incompetent; survives only by plagiarising other people's work, and being carried by those they bully
wraps himself or herself in a flag or tradition and usurps others' objectives, thereby nurturing compliance, reverence, deference, endorsement and obeisance; however, such veneration and allegiance is divisive, being a corruption for personal power which exhibits itself through the establishment of a clique, coterie, cabal, faction, or gang
is a divisive and disruptive influence, their departments are dysfunctional and inefficient, and their behaviour prevents staff from performing their duties
bears grudges for minor slights or perceived slights which may be acted on years later when the transgressor can be denied promotion or downsized in the bully's 'reorganisation'
gains gratification from provoking people into emotional or irrational responses but is quick to claim provocation by others when challenged
has a short-term focus and often cannot think or plan ahead more than 24 hours
appears to have a short, selective memory and often cannot or will not remember what they said, did, or committed to more than 24 hours ago - but is always able to remember your faults, often from years ago
the serial bully seems to live in a bubble of the present and when challenged will spontaneously make things up; the bully genuinely seems to believe the fabrication; from a psychiatric viewpoint this could be called confabulation; from a moral viewpoint, it's called lying
is often like a child who has never grown up
exhibits immature behaviour and poor manners
has poor communication skills, poor interpersonal skills, poor social skills
often misses social cues
has poor language skills, and uses almost exclusively negative language with few or no positive words; is often limited to regurgitating the latest management jargon
has poorly-defined moral and ethical boundaries
acts out of gratification and self-interest only, often using and hiding behind the employer
extrovert bullies tend to be shouters and screamers, are highly visible, and bully from the front
extrovert bullies can be charismatic and seem to be able to bewitch people into following and supporting them
introvert bullies - the most dangerous types - tend to sit in the background and recruit others to do the bullying for them - when dealing with this type of bullying, identify the arch-bully in the background and focus single-mindedly on that person - the others will melt away
is a killjoy, a wet blanket, is unreceptive and finds fault with or pours scorn on other people's ideas and suggestions, but may regurgitate them later claiming to be the originator
often has a hatred of a sector of society, eg ethnic minorities, disabled people, etc
often has a hatred of certain professional groups, eg psychologists, psychiatrists, social workers, counsellors, therapists
is unimaginative and lacks the skills of creativity and innovation
rarely has any ideas of his or her own; tends to regurgitate what others (especially superiors) say rather than use own thinking
is a plagiarist, steals other people's work - and the credit for it
has a writing style that is disjointed, lacks flow and consistency, tends to make contradictory statements, and has the feel of a young teenager trying to write like a grown-up (apologies to teenagers)
often uses false praise or praise which is inappropriate to the circumstances; this is partly to make the bully feel good, partly for the benefit of witnesses, partly poor judgement, partly immaturity, and partly for control and subjugation to throw their target off guard
is unable and unwilling to value others and their contributions and achievements; is often scornful
shows discrepancy in valuing tasks, deliberately devaluing the work and achievements of others; when the bully does a certain job, it's onerous, difficult and the bully needs lots of recognition; when their target does the same job it's trivial, of little or no value, not worth mentioning
is ungrateful and rarely (if ever) says 'thank you' or 'well done' (except, perhaps, if impressionable witnesses are present)
is unable to assess the importance of events and tasks, often making an unnecessary fuss over trivia whilst ignoring important or urgent things
exhibits duplicity and hypocrisy, eg says one thing one day and denies it the next
often has an overwhelming (and unhealthy) need to feel recognised and wanted
is fastidious, often has an unhealthy obsession with cleanliness or orderliness
is insincere and false
has never learnt the skills of and has little concept of empathy; may use charm and mimicry to compensate
attempts at empathy are superficial, amateur, often inappropriate or inappropriately high, and based on mimicry rather than genuine concern - and are for the purpose of making the bully look and feel good, especially in front of witnesses
when required to show empathy, eg someone is in distress or needs help, responds either with impatience and aggression (if no-one else is present), or with a fulsome and effusive attempt at empathy (if witnesses are present)
is unwilling to apologise for mistakes, except occasionally when witnesses are present, then the apology is fulsome, artificial, and inappropriate - but sufficiently convincing for peers and superiors
is quick to blame others
is uncharacteristically fulsome and effusive, especially in front of witnesses - but hollow and insincere
is devious and manipulative (especially female bullies)
is spiteful and vengeful (ditto)
uses aggression almost exclusively but claims to be assertive (assertiveness is about recognising and respecting the rights of oneself and others)
has unpredictable mood swings, blows hot and cold, often suddenly and without warning
is inconsistent in their judgement, often overruling, ignoring or denying what they said previously
is inflexible and unable to evaluate options and alternatives
is unforgiving and often seizes on and exploits others' mistakes or perceived mistakes
is financially irresponsible and often has a bad credit rating
has a cavalier attitude to Health and Safety
is quick to anger and often has an unpredictable temper
can be unpredictably and disarmingly pleasant, especially when you are unmasking them in front others - this plays on people's sympathies and is a use of guilt for manipulation and control
is often humourless and emotionally flat; attempts at humour are often shallow and superficial
is insecure and sees others as a threat; the threat seems to comprise a fear of exposure of inadequacy, and often borders on paranoia; the individual may have a paranoid personality
is uncommunicative and uncooperative, and is evasive when asked for information (eg by subordinates)
for communication, often relies excessively or exclusively on memos, emails, yellow stickies, or third parties and other strategies for avoiding face-to-face contact
has no listening skills, ignores and overrules you; it can be like talking to a brick wall
displays inappropriate body language and eye contact (eg too much or too little)
is unable to sustain a mature adult conversation (you may only realise this in retrospect)
sees people as objects (in the same way that child sex abusers and rapists see their targets as objects for their gratification)
often displays interpersonal behaviour that is ill-advised, especially with a sexual overtone, eg invasion of intimate zone, gestures or comments which include inappropriate sexual references or innuendo, being inappropriately intimate with clients, being too friendly too soon, etc
is incapable of intimacy
lacks a conscience and shows no remorse
displays excessive and rigid adherence to procedures, rules, regulations etc, usually as a cover for lack of creativity; their work is largely bureaucratic in nature and obedience of orders from above is a priority
finds ritual important and comforting, and frequently indulges in ritual and ritualistic activity
often forms or joins lots of committees to look busy and important but never achieves anything of significance or value
when called upon to exercise judgement, relies on and insists on rigid adherence to procedures and rules (this is an abdication of responsibility and an admission of inability to manage)
gains gratification from bullying people by imposing rules, regulations, laws etc and insisting on adherence thereto, regardless of their relevance or efficacy
often exhibits a psychopathic personality, the main features of which are:
an unwillingness to conform to the rules of society: thinks that rules, regulations, procedures and the law do not apply to them - but insists that others adhere rigidly
an inability to tolerate minor frustrations
a tendency to act impulsively, recklessly and randomly
an inability to form stable relationships (the bully's private life is usually a mess)
an inability or unwillingness to learn from past experience, however unpleasant - this 'learning blindness' is a key feature of the serial bully and differentiates the serial bully from the unwitting bully; this inability to learn seems to be concentrated in the area of interpersonal, social, communication and behavioural skills; closer inspection suggests that the bully does learn from experience, but only how be more secretive and how to be more skilled at evading accountability
Other adjectives to describe the serial bully include cunning, scheming, calculating, cruel, sadistic, premeditated, exploitative, opportunist, unconcerned, etc. Email me your suggestions.

The lack of interpersonal, social, and empathic skills are reminiscent of autism; the serial bully relies almost entirely on rules, procedures, aggression, denial and mimicry to hide their lack of people skills. Psychopaths and sociopaths are often excellent actors and mimics.

Most people with this profile are incompetent at their job - the bullying is intended to hide this incompetence. However, a few recent cases suggest that some serial bullies (especially the quiet ones):

are good at carrying out rule-based or procedurally-oriented jobs which require no free thinking or imagination; these people fall down when required to step outside this role, eg dealing with people
(especially males) excel in one area of work (usually scientific in nature) and may be regarded as the leading authority in their field but are lacking in almost every other respect, especially in interpersonal skills (this is reminiscent of savant syndrome); they also tend to be physically aggressive and may have a reputation for sexual harassment
Power over people

The serial bully is able to exert a hold over people for a variety of reasons.

Targets are disempowered such that they become dependent on the bully to allow them to get through each day without their life being made hell.

The serial bully is often able to bewitch a colleague into supporting them; this person then becomes the bully's spokesperson and advocate. How people can be so easily taken in by the bully's glib charm, Jekyll and Hyde nature, and constant lying is a mystery.

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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 17:06:22 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: JTF
Subject: Link to complete page and site: Bully Online
Message:
Bully Online

Great site, isn't it JTF?

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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 17:28:43 (GMT)
From: JTF
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: yes it is...Thanks for link...I'm lazy! -nt
Message:
asdf
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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 17:01:31 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: JTF
Subject: Is rawat a serial bully?
Message:
His claim to fame as a kid was beating people with a stick to wake them up from their probably much-needed sleep.

Hindsight is 20/20. Sad.

Steve

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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 13:00:20 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: JTF
Subject: Looks like it..............nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 12:02:01 (GMT)
From: Nigel and TD
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Off to Amaroo in the morning for a picnic...
Message:
Hi everyone,

Quick hi from down under. I hear when we get the barbecue and beer out on the Lord's soil, we might be in for bad karma. Can anyone confirm?

Can anyone lend us a smart card so we can enjoy the moment without being hassled by security?

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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 09:20:17 (GMT)
From: j of v
Email: None
To: Nigel and TD
Subject: while you're there, why doncha...
Message:
plant some land mines, booby trap the main hall, take a hostage or two....maybe leave a large turd on the doorstep? grafitti a rock in giant letters way up where it would be hell to clean off,with shock words like 'drunk,pimp,murderer,criminal,cheat,liar, fatass, teeny-peeny...'facing where everybody can see them when they come for events. glow in the dark would be real aggravating.
print out the most damning posts form this site and keep em on you if you get caught or busted, to show your motive behind action. get media attention for it if caught.
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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 23:21:46 (GMT)
From: Erstwhile Aspirant
Email: None
To: Nigel and TD
Subject: Amaroo is a hell-hole
Message:
Don't bother going there to that parched, desert, boiling-hot, hell-hole. I was suckered into going, back when I was considered an 'aspirant.' Fucking cost thousands of dollars to sleep in a tent in the middle of the fucking desert. The worst part is that the place was full of fucking sap-faced cult members, who spend all their time ushering each other around, and buying sacred trinkets with the master's fat face on them. They even lined up by the hundreds and kissed the flabby feet of that fat-assed master. Turned my stomach. It felt like a concentration camp, but at least in a concentration camp people aren't walking around with idiot-smiles on their faces trying to look spiritual. It was so fucking fake, all of it.

I gave up my vacation time to fly off to the most fucking remote place on earth, in the middle of nowhere, so that I could sit in the desert with a bunch of smiling-saps, eat shitty lasagne, and sleep in an over-priced pup-tent, that I could not afford. It was a real treat, let me tell you. I kept thinking that at any minute they were going to hand out the Kool Aid. You can bet they would have charged for it. What a total rip-off.

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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 21:36:13 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Nigel and TD
Subject: Off to Amaroo in the morning for a picnic...
Message:
Just make sure it's not a Ramada Inn with the letters switched around! hee hee

Have fun, kids!

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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 20:32:34 (GMT)
From: Nigel and TD
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: Off to Amaroo in the morning for a picnic...
Message:
Hi Helen,

Have a great Christmas and regards to family. We'll email before long.

(We didn't really go to Amaroo, but I wonder whether we got the security PEWKS running extra foot patrols..?)

Nigel and TD

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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 12:16:49 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Nigel and TD
Subject: I heared that blubber gets offended
Message:
if anyone eats pork. Reminds him of himself on the scwer. Nahh Amaroo is too big, hire some horses and pretend to be the neighbor. Make sure to have you video camera with you to film the evidence. Bring lots of pics. Have one for me.
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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 14:04:36 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac uk.
To: Salam
Subject: Are you in Sydney? (ot)
Message:
I'm gonna be in your fantasic country until the 29th Dec unless I can get a later flight back to the land of bad weather, bad dreams, and bad food - in which case it will be early January. If you're in the neighbourhood, Salam, give me your email again and we can meet for coffee some time.
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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 16:36:40 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: salam_au@iprimus.com.au
To: Nigel
Subject: Are you in Sydney? (ot)
Message:
e-mail me when you've finished chasing croc.
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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 06:27:59 (GMT)
From: Mental as Anything
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: HAVE I GOT F##KING LEPROSY??
Message:
If you leave me, can I come too? Come on ! All I wanted was a COFFEE!!
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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 10:47:32 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Mental as Anything
Subject: How did you get in you silly cat?
Message:
You are a bad boy, go away.
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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 13:28:02 (GMT)
From: JTF
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Have some respect-call him blubberji-(nt)
Message:
asdf
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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 13:54:01 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: JTF
Subject: What's the difference?....nt
Message:
blubber
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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 12:07:24 (GMT)
From: Oliver.
Email: None
To: Nigel and TD
Subject: You won't need a smart card,....
Message:
...just jump the dumb fence.

Have a VB a burnt snag for me.

Merry Xmas Pommie. :)

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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 19:12:32 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Nigel and TD
Subject: Was it fun?
Message:
How did the picnic go? Do tell! And how are you two doing anyway? Hope you're having fun. Merry Christmas.

Nigel, I'll see you sooner rather than later.

Much love, Marianne

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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 11:36:04 (GMT)
From: Last question
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: To Michael Dettmers re your 1st agreement
Message:
If I understand correctly, you made 2 confidential agreements.

One of them you signed regarding financial matters. This agreement you told made sense to you.

Re the other one, you were given a choice. Meaning from the most sincere place in you, you were given a choice and a deal. Like you had to promise from the bottom of your heart, that if you were allowed to enter that 'room', what you saw would you keep to your heart in confidenciallity.

You seem to respect the financial agreement, event if it is hard for anyone to imagine what now is untold.

The other and more deeper agreement, 'signed' at the heart of your soul, not on any paper, you seem to have broken again and again. You have even revealed intimate details a friend in complete trust to you, told you.

My question is, Have I misunderstood something?
And why is that you respect the 2nd agreement, when you drop the 1st? And what do you feel about it?

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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 20:34:02 (GMT)
From: Michael Dettmers
Email: dettmers@ylanix.com
To: Last question
Subject: Not my last response
Message:
Dear Last Question:

You ask a very good question. I agree with your assessment that there are two agreements -- a signed contract and a sacred covenant. Let’s deal with the signed contract first. You state that I “seem to respect the financial agreement, even if it is hard for anyone to imagine what now is untold.” With respect to the non-disclosure clause in my contract, I have chosen to interpret its meaning in the narrowest sense possible. This means that I have not hesitated to disclose financial and legal information that I had discussed in open sessions with organizers all over the world. And I would not hesitate to fully breach the non-disclosure clause if I thought the information I disclosed could in any way damage Maharaji. Furthermore, I could give a rat’s ass if Maharaji or any of his agents chose to sue me for breach of the non-disclosure clause. It would love the opportunity to depose Maharaji and his agents under oath and ask them point blank to deny any of the assertions I have made public on the Ex-Premie Forum about Maharaji’s behavior. The reason I chose not to breach the non-disclosure clause is because it might create negative consequences for my consulting business where I am often required to include non-disclosure clauses in my agreements. It is normal for potential and/or actual clients to demand confidentiality, not just for legal and financial matters, but also to protect their proprietary inventions and trade secrets.

Now let’s talk about the sacred covenant. You say that I “had to promise from the bottom of (my) heart, that if (I) were allowed to enter that ‘room’, what (I) saw (I) would keep to (my) heart in confidentiality.” I presume that you are referring to the conditions one is asked to abide by if they agree to be x-rated. To make sense of this “agreement” we must first put the process of becoming x-rating in context. As I explained in my earlier post on this subject, the premies who were invited to become x-rated had been in the ashram and, for the most part, were already doing full-time service for Maharaji. These people were trusted by those who were already x-rated and quite often they were known by Maharaji. So before anyone was x-rated, they were already bound by the sacred covenant the existed between Maharaji and his devotees made manifest through the ashram. And who created this sacred covenant? Maharaji of course, during a time when he was unquestionably presenting himself as the lord, despite Élan Vital’s claims to the contrary. That’s what made the covenant sacred. We surrendered our lives to him and he promised to take care of us, not just spiritually but physically as well. X-rating made sense if one subscribed to the lord – devotee belief system and it wasn’t much of a stretch to accept that the lord, as such, must not be subject to the same rules and protocols that applied to his devotees.

All bets are off, however, if the covenant is broken. And who broke the covenant? You’re right – Maharaji did when he unceremoniously disbanded the ashrams and threw most its residents out on their asses without even an explanation. That act was a most grievous violation of the “deeper agreement, ‘signed’ at the heart of your soul” to use your words. He has since denied that he ever presented himself as the lord and, in his usual manner, has deflected any and all responsibility for this tragedy onto others. So, if he’s no longer the lord, then there is no longer any reason to exempt him from the standards of civilized society. But no, he wants it both ways. Well fuck him. He is a hypocrite and that is what I have disclosed.

Finally, you claim that I have violated my friendship with Maharaji because I “even revealed intimate details a friend in complete trust to (me), told (me).” I guess that depends upon your definition of friendship. At one point in my relationship with Maharaji, I believed it was possible to know him as a friend. I vividly remember a trip we took from Los Angeles to Miami in August 1984. At the time, he did not have a personal jet. The 707 had just been sold and we had not yet secured the Lear 35 so we made the trip together in First Class on Pan Am. At that time, he was in the midst of his marriage difficulties and was in a subdued and somber mood. Well into the flight when we were both a little tipsy, he leaned over to me and said that he hoped that we would always remain friends even if I wasn’t serving him in any capacity. For years, I held onto that possibility even long after we had parted company. I’m sure that is one of the main reasons I didn’t come forward with my revelations any sooner than I did. But well over a decade passed since I left, and I never heard a word from him. Even his brother Raja Ji, whom I like very much, has called me once or twice a year just to say hello. When we were both in Berkeley a couple of years ago we got together for lunch. To me, that is how friends act even if they aren’t close friends. Maharaji, on the other hand, is incapable of friendship. I didn’t fully appreciate it at the time but his expression of friendship in 1984 had all the sincerity and commitment one can expect from an alcoholic. Still I said nothing until I became aware of the Jagdeo situation. His shameful and cowardly behavior in this matter has superceded any delusions of friendship I may have harbored and I decided to come forward with my disclosures.

And if you think that the Jagdeo situation isn’t proof enough of his cowardice, let me leave you with another disclosure to mull over this holiday season. I don’t know how many of you are aware that Maharaji has killed a man. In the early 80’s, following a festival at the ashram outside of New Delhi, India, Maharaji and his motorcade were traveling from the ashram to the airport to board the 707 for America. Maharaji was driving the lead car and I was a passenger in the front seat of the car directly behind his. All of a sudden, I saw a man riding a bicycle pull out in front of Maharaji’s car. Seconds later the man went flying several yards into the ditch. He died instantly. Randy Prouty, who was traveling as security in Maharaji’s vehicle, frantically ran to the car I was in and instructed all of us to get out of the car and find a place in the other vehicles that were part of the motorcade. Maharaji and the people in his car quickly transferred to the car I was in, and we all sped to the airport. Sampurnanand stayed behind to deal with the situation which he did by having his houseboy take the wrap. In the investigation that ensued, the houseboy stating that he was the driver of the vehicle who hit the unfortunate cyclist. That explanation, plus a heft cash settlement to the victim’s family, enabled Maharaji to quickly put the incident behind him so that he could get on with the business of bringing peace, love and joy to the rest of humanity.

Happy Holidays!!!

Michael

PS: I am leaving for a week to celebrate the holidays with my family so I don’t promise to look in on the Forum or respond to questions in a timely manner.

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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 13:54:01 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Michael Dettmers
Subject: Thanks you and have a happy Holiday MD:)--nt
Message:
asdg
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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 22:21:27 (GMT)
From: such
Email: None
To: Michael Dettmers
Subject: 'the lord, as such',does not judge you,Michael (nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 22:20:04 (GMT)
From: No statute of limitations
Email: telltheauthoritiessomeone
To: Michael Dettmers
Subject: Not my last response/Maharaji has killed a man!!!
Message:
As witnessed and attested to by Michael Dettmers as he says:

'I saw a man riding a bicycle pull out in front of Maharaji’s car. Seconds later the man went flying several yards into the ditch. He died instantly.'

He must be brought to trial for this!!!

This is a MURDER CASE!!!

A man died! This as a result of comming into contact by the vehical that was being controled by Sat Guru Maharaj Ji, {M}!

If Michael does not now report this to the appropriate authorities {now} then he is looking at possible legal actions against him as well, but we do hope that within the next week he will let us know that he has reported this and where he did indeed report this.

Murder has no statute of limitations, {no time limitation on filling a MURDER CASE!}

We should be hearing from Michael befor the end of this year!

MURDER! -------- Not to mention all of the other laws that were broken here!

Michael----- This is now public, please respond.

12/21/2000

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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 21:18:31 (GMT)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: Michael Dettmers
Subject: The missing piece...murder
Message:
There it is! The missing piece!
Some months ago, before I finally saw through this whole charade, I was with some premie friends and I said ….OK, we know he smokes, drinks and eats meat (this had already shocked them) I expect we’ll find out soon that he’s got a mistress, ( much laughter) but seriously I asked, how would you feel about that? One said, it wouldn’t make a difference, another said it would , so I asked how many mistresses before it would make a difference, six? Hmmm yes, maybe. Well, I said, how many murders would it take? Oh, they said, only one!
I think you have just provided the missing piece
Here we go
Hats off to you Michael, and all the best,
Kelly

PS “The missing piece” is the title of a new introductory video/audio tape

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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 21:49:37 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Kelly
Subject: The missing piece...murder?
Message:
The way Michael described what happened I would not refer to it as murder. It does not sound like Rawat intentionally killed the man, and it doesn't even sound like the accident might not have been the fault of the cyclist.

What is clear is Rawat covered it up with the help of his PAMs. It is clear Rawat did not have the guts to take responsibility for his actions, and did find it okay to let Sampuranands houseboy take the heat. It certainly was a hit and run, and it certainly was illegal ( at least by US standards ) but I do not think that is murder.

It does say a ton about Rawat's character and the lengths people around him will go to protect him.

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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 23:02:34 (GMT)
From: Tom
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: Missing piece...murder? Let the Courts decide!
Message:
My take on it.

This most certainly rises to the level of being required by law I think to being investigated on the charge of Murder as per the law, even in India.

If he is cleared he is cleared if not then he is not, they will do the fair thing hopefully don't you think?

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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 22:09:44 (GMT)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: Of course it's not murder..but
Message:
Dear Susan,
I was just about to post a postscipt to say that murder was a bit too strong a word, I was just using it for dramatic effect. But , he killed someone with his car, accident? ..whose fault? maybe we'll never know, but, the disgraceful way he abdicated all responsibility and let someone else take the rap...I believe that, and I'm sickened.
What next? I wonder. And will I be shocked? I don't think anything will shock me now. The man's capable of anything.
Love to you
Kelly
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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 23:38:37 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Kelly
Subject: thanks Kelly
Message:
I think we have to be careful to be accurate in what we say here. Any time we exagerate a point it will be sieized upon by the cult as 'proof' that we are the 'angry' mob they portray us as. In this case, it probably is better not to label it as murder, unless in India this is a standard for murder, because the cult will see it as justification of the 'need' for the coverup.

One can imagine some of the excuses they made for the need for the coverup. No doubt Prem Rawat is not a beloved figure in India. Perhaps they felt the law and the publicity might be harsh. Sat Pal too might have delighted in his bro's troubles. But, it looks like the coverup was decided upon hastily, and that begs the question whether coverup wrongdoing is simply a reflex response for Rawat and company.

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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 22:30:33 (GMT)
From: Tom
Email: None
To: Kelly
Subject: Of course it's not murder..but
Message:
I think a Court needs to determine if this is Murder or not as we indeed do not know, but we do know enough as to the event that an investigation into this is mandated by law in India for the charge of Murder, this is not in doubt.

I hope you do not mind my thinking on this.

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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 22:38:46 (GMT)
From: Tom
Email: None
To: Tom
Subject: not murder..but??? If it may be Murder!!! (nt)
Message:

Looks like someone did not want this known. {M}

This may be Murder, countries have legal systems so as to determine things like this, it may be Murder!

This is a Murder that may very well have been committed!

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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 22:02:31 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: Vehicular manslaughter
Message:
The description of this event sounds like what might be called vehicular manslaughter in California.

This guy isn't the Lord of the Universe. And he sure isn't a person any of us should be emulating. He's just one sorry excuse for a human being.

Marianne

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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 17:55:39 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Why do you think that, Marianne?
Message:
Mike's story is of an accident, as far as I can tell. All the criminality (not to mention immorality) happened afterwards. How do you get a manslaughter out of that?
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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 21:49:20 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Vehicular Manslaughter
Message:
In California at least, you can be criminally prosecuted for vehicular manslaughter, but usually it has to be because there was some fault of the driver, like speeding, etc. Who knows what the situation is in India.

A famous case in the area near where I live, was that of a woman who was getting some tapes to play in the cassette system in her car, took her eyes off the road, and hit two people riding bicycles and killed them. She was criminally prosecuted and convicted for, I think, something called 'involuntary vehicular manslaughter,' but the judge didn't give her jail time, although he could have.

Who knows what happened to the houseboy, but I think what Marianne was saying was that perhaps Maharaji could have been prosecuted for vehicular manslaughter, and may or may not have been convicted. But the real point his he likely committed a criminal act by leaving the scene of an injury accident obstructing justice by allowing a false accident report to be filed, fleeing the country unlawfully, and also hiding from the family of the victim the fact that he was driving, and hence could be the subject of a civil lawsuit.

Not to mention the immoral and dishonest nature of all this.

I'm sure the houseboy had no assets and so the family didn't pursue a civil case, especially after Maharaji threw some money at them. But had they known the rich Lord of the Universe was driving, that might have been a different story.

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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 18:42:10 (GMT)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: Jim and everyone
Subject: Right, depends whose fault it was. more WITNESSES
Message:
Jim:

1) Question of vehicular manslaughter - whose fault was the accident? m. or bicylist? unavoidable, or m. speeding? Any attempt to avoid accident, swerve, brake, etc.? India is very loose and chaotic, in practice: r.e. highways, cars, pedestrians, infrastructure, etc.

Witnesses: were there contradicting witnesses at the scene, besides m.'s yes-men? m.'s flight implies culpability of some kind, as well as personal responsibility for and involvement in the accident.

2) Flight from the scene of a fatal car accident: if true, and m. was the driver, then this would be a criminal felony in most industrialized nations, punishable by prison time. There is a need for corroboration by just one more witness, besides MD. [Indian law derived from British codes]

3) switching drivers and cars, installing the houseboy as the scapegoat, and coercing/persuading him to testify as the driver involves perjury, and concerted complicity thereof [conspiracy is not a word I'm found of].

4) Date, time of day, exact location, name of road, car description/i.d., names of personnel present?

5) DLM/EVI s.o.p.: hush money [to victim's family] - to prevent publicity or p.r. nightmare.

OTHER WITNESSES OR PERSONS WITH INFORMATION ABOUT THESE CIRCUMSTANCES, PLEASE COME FORTH! THANK YOU.

Peace,

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Date: Sat, Dec 23, 2000 at 06:00:35 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: suchabanana
Subject: More important - had he been drinking?
Message:
This was, according to MD, a period when the Lard was hitting the bottle daily. After a live festival performance, I'd be surprised if he hadn't had a wee something for the nerves.

Michael..?

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Date: Sat, Dec 23, 2000 at 06:41:09 (GMT)
From: such
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: a VERY good question, Nigel (nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 10:02:04 (GMT)
From: Indira Ghandi
Email: Was that a car backfiring?
To: Marianne
Subject: Vehicular manslaughter
Message:
Would you like to come to India and try it on. You are such a big dreamer. On one day alone whilst driving through rural India I personally witnessed at least 10 deaths through road accidents.
You keep forgetting. India is India
I might also point out that you in particular Marianne(LLb) are getting dangerously close to libel.Keep going......
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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 19:45:15 (GMT)
From: Joy
Email: None
To: Indira Ghandi
Subject: Vehicular manslaughter
Message:
So are you saying, Indira, that life in India is cheap and this doesn't matter? Would it matter more to you if he had accidentally mown down a Hollywood movie star on the PCH? This man was as alive as you or I or Tom Cruise and the fact that he was an Indian peasant makes no difference at all. How can you trivialize this with such a comment? If that is an example of the compassionate attitude practicing Knowledge can give you, boy, I'm sure glad I got OUT OF IT!
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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 22:00:37 (GMT)
From: Indira Ghandi
Email: None
To: Joy
Subject: Vehicular manslaughter
Message:
Nothing to do with K. I'm talking about India. You have to live there as I did for several years to understand the fucked up cheap place it really is.Just ask my son.
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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 21:55:10 (GMT)
From: Union Carbide
Email: None
To: Joy
Subject: The value of Indian life...
Message:
As you may recall, about 15 years ago there was a little accident in our chemical plant in Bhopal, India, that was not our fault. We just don't know who did it. Anyhow, unfortunately, about 2000 people were killed, and those litigious asshole lawyers sued us. AND, they tried to bring the case in the USA, which we fought tooth and nail, let me tell you. This is because a life in a US court case could be hundreds of thousands of dollars, on average, but in India it's worth about $29.95.
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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 22:07:29 (GMT)
From: Indira Ghandi
Email: None
To: Union Carbide
Subject: The value of Indian life...
Message:
My point. I didn't at any stage say I ageed with it. You might be interested to know that an Aussie law firm looked at suing UC. The same company that successfully combined with Ralph Nader to sue and defeat Aussie multi national BHP over OKTedi (NG)
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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 22:14:04 (GMT)
From: Union Carbide
Email: None
To: Indira Ghandi
Subject: The value of Indian life...
Message:
Wrongful death, smongful death....fortunately, those money-grubbing Indians had to bring their case in Indian courts, so the whole 2000 deaths cost us less than our CEO made for what he did last Tuesday. Is this a great world, or what?
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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 15:42:12 (GMT)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: Indira Ghandi
Subject: excuse me Indira Ghandi,I thought you were dead.nt
Message:
spooky
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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 16:44:08 (GMT)
From: Indira Ghandi
Email: Tamils? What Tamils??
To: Kelly
Subject: excuse me Indira Ghandi,I thought you were dead.nt
Message:
We Indian politicians are always with you. Brahmin re-incarnation privelige. (Why are you pointing that thing at me?)
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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 22:45:20 (GMT)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Criminal:leaving scene of accident,and perjury (nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 22:10:36 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: thanks Marianne well said (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 20:59:05 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: all
Subject: don't ask Randy about this
Message:
he won't 'remember'.

And, does anyone think people who are capable of covering this up are NOT capable of covering for Jagdeo because of how it reflects on their Lord?

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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 22:05:08 (GMT)
From: JTF
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: It's called selective memory loss
Message:
...to the best of his recollection...as if something like that or the report about Jagdeo could ever be forgotten.

Want to take a lie detector test, Randy?

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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 18:45:02 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Last question
Subject: Who the fuck are you...
Message:
...and why do you want to know?

And while you're at it, use one alias or I'll lobby the FA to have you kicked off.

Haven't you got a cult website to go to?

Anth the La la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la

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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 17:36:42 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Last question
Subject: whoever you are you are disgusting me
Message:
So Michael is immoral for telling the truth about a LOrd who procures women who believe he is Lord of the Unirse to have sex and then dumps them. He is immoral for letting people know the truth about the supposed Lords drug and alchohol use. He is immoral for letting us know the same guy whose perfect feet we kissed drove drunk with his four children in the car. He is immoral for shattering the carefully crafted illusions all those who are x rated agree to perpetuate. He is immoral for letting us know about how Rawat reminds those who are x rated on a daily basis that there are throngs of premies waiting to take their places. ( I would guess Rawat is about to find that threat is a bit empty....I bet there aren't as many people ready to get screwed over by becoming PAMS as there used to be ) . There are some confidences that the only moral thing to do is BREAK. This is without a doubt an example. Michael is doing what very few PAMs have ever been willing to do, tell the truth even though it subjects him to attack both from Rawat's camp for beinga traitor and from the x camp because at one time he was a collaborator.

Whover you are LAST QUESTION, I would imagine you are patting on the back the PAMs that are 'forgetting' about Jagdeo to aid their master, just as you castigate Michael for telling the truth, and setting free many people in the cult. You disgust me LAST QUESTIOU. Are you really as corrupt a soul; as you appear to be?

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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 19:19:24 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: Excellent post, Susan - nt
Message:
xxx
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