Bazza -:- ELK Ringing in the changes -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 21:44:03 (GMT)

__ suchabonneannee -:- Possible scam for another Rolex,liposuction?! (nt -:- Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 00:17:15 (GMT)

__ Lotus Domino -:- Sledgehammer To Crack Nut -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 23:22:39 (GMT)

__ __ Sir Dave -:- Yeah but this is a classic -:- Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 01:17:37 (GMT)

__ __ __ Bazza -:- My favourite paragraph -:- Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 03:34:23 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- My favourite paragraph -:- Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 03:52:15 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Oliver -:- What ex-premie spam? (NT) :))) -:- Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 06:19:07 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Bazza -:- Cheers mate nt -:- Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 03:57:08 (GMT)

__ Steve Quint -:- ELK Ringing in the changes -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 21:57:28 (GMT)

__ __ Bazza -:- But Steve its not about the money -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 22:23:23 (GMT)

__ Disculta -:- ELK Ringing in the changes -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 21:53:29 (GMT)

__ __ Bazza -:- Guess they're just not in synch -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 22:09:22 (GMT)

Andrew -:- Now read the book... -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 21:19:25 (GMT)

__ Scott T. -:- Now read the book... -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 22:40:17 (GMT)

__ Gregg -:- Now read the book... -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 22:08:02 (GMT)

Oliver -:- Was I or was I not banned??? -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 18:17:02 (GMT)

__ Brian -:- Was I or was I not banned??? -:- Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 20:33:01 (GMT)

__ __ Oliver -:- Re: Was I or was I not banned??? -:- Wed, Jan 03, 2001 at 01:54:37 (GMT)

__ Aussi Ji -:- Geez you're up early. -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 18:38:37 (GMT)

__ __ oliver -:- The early bird, catches the worm. (NT) -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 19:02:46 (GMT)

__ __ __ suchaBanana -:- Yuk, you eat worms? (Naturally,I'm fruitarian) (nt -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 19:48:19 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Oliver -:- No, I like to fish. (nt) -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 21:36:24 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Aussi Ji -:- I like shrimps on the barby nt -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 21:51:27 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ suchabonanza -:- Like,Dudes!I can make you Fishers of huMensche (nt -:- Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 00:08:42 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Oliver -:- I think I was but someone had a change of mind - -:- Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 09:30:48 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ suchibonita -:- m. say: A Mind is a terrible thing to have! (nt -:- Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 17:38:31 (GMT)

Wish -:- Internet's influence on propagation? -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 16:32:36 (GMT)

__ AJW -:- It doesn't matter Wish. -:- Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 21:27:19 (GMT)

__ Joe -:- Internet's influence on propagation? -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 22:43:07 (GMT)

__ Sir Dave -:- Internet's influence on propagation? -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 19:55:50 (GMT)

__ la-ex -:- Here's my take... -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 17:09:35 (GMT)

__ __ Steve Quint -:- Here's my take... -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 22:03:20 (GMT)

__ __ suchabandon -:- Well,me and 3 other premie-Lifers jumped ship! (nt -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 19:44:25 (GMT)

__ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Not speaking of the 1,600 aspirants they claim!!! -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 22:37:58 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Daneane -:- Not speaking of the 1,600 aspirants they claim!!! -:- Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 04:18:32 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- More on EV's algebra -:- Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 16:30:28 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Lesley -:- Counting chickens before they're hatched -:- Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 21:41:40 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ suchabonhomme -:- Zut alors,leur arithmetique est tres mauvaise! (nt -:- Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 00:27:54 (GMT)

Andrew -:- Two questions... -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 08:38:05 (GMT)

__ Joe -:- Two questions... -:- Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 20:38:43 (GMT)

__ __ Thelma -:- Two questions... -:- Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 22:38:39 (GMT)

__ __ __ Joe -:- Don't Knock Berkeley -:- Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 23:12:09 (GMT)

__ Thelma -:- Two questions... -:- Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 02:57:58 (GMT)

__ __ Stonor -:- FYI Thelma ... -:- Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 20:51:11 (GMT)

__ __ hamzen -:- A few comments Thelma -:- Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 15:41:06 (GMT)

__ __ __ Thelma -:- A few comments from Thelma -:- Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 19:57:08 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ hamzen -:- You're not synchronised Thelma, that's the problem -:- Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 22:04:27 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Thelma -:- You're not synchronised Thelma -:- Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 22:50:20 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Hey we're synchronized.... -:- Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 22:17:51 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ ham -:- The cosmos moves in mysterious ways eh! -:- Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 22:28:23 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ gerry -:- Thelma's misconceptions -:- Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 20:15:56 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ ham -:- So how about a def Gerr? -:- Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 21:56:04 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Thelma -:- So how about a definition of libertarianism? -:- Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 23:02:12 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- I think I love you thelma... -:- Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 23:17:47 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ hamzen -:- Blimey, -:- Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 23:56:38 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ ham -:- Previous post should be to Thelma not you Gerr! -:- Wed, Jan 03, 2001 at 00:06:30 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Thanks, I'm off the hook to answer... -:- Wed, Jan 03, 2001 at 00:39:48 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ The Thunderstealing Bitch -:- libertarianism v anarchy -:- Wed, Jan 03, 2001 at 09:51:30 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- I still love you, thelma -:- Wed, Jan 03, 2001 at 18:11:44 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ ham -:- Are you serious, here come the breakbeats, and -:- Wed, Jan 03, 2001 at 12:28:46 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Thelma -:- Are you serious? -:- Wed, Jan 03, 2001 at 18:46:45 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ ham -:- Nostalgia, yuch -:- Wed, Jan 03, 2001 at 23:43:47 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ The Thunderstealing Bitch -:- PS to the Ham -:- Thurs, Jan 04, 2001 at 01:14:35 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Thelma -:- Nostalgia, yuch -:- Thurs, Jan 04, 2001 at 01:11:23 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ ham -:- I knew it, yeah, praise the lord -:- Thurs, Jan 04, 2001 at 03:40:14 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Thelma -:- I knew it, yeah, praise the lord -:- Thurs, Jan 04, 2001 at 04:37:11 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ ham -:- Not quite accurate Thelma -:- Thurs, Jan 04, 2001 at 13:33:15 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Hey cuz... -:- Wed, Jan 03, 2001 at 19:38:33 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Thelma -:- Hey cuz... -:- Wed, Jan 03, 2001 at 20:06:10 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ GERRY -:- yOu have...BOLLOCKS ?!? -:- Thurs, Jan 04, 2001 at 01:28:39 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Thelma -:- Platonic love -:- Thurs, Jan 04, 2001 at 02:38:18 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- So how about a def Gerr? -:- Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 22:13:22 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Thelma -:- libertarianism -:- Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 21:49:53 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- libertarianism -:- Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 21:56:14 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Joe -:- Fascist is a better term -:- Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 20:15:32 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ ham -:- Great def of gm as usual Joe -:- Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 22:14:30 (GMT)

__ m -:- Two questions... -:- Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 02:53:46 (GMT)

__ Susan -:- Two questions... -:- Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 02:41:11 (GMT)

__ Scott T. -:- Two questions... -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 22:34:27 (GMT)

__ la-ex -:- Two questions../one answer to something else.... -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 17:41:41 (GMT)

__ __ Curious Gorge -:- Thanks L A ex and Happy New Year -:- Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 07:19:22 (GMT)

__ Helen -:- Two questions... -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 17:05:05 (GMT)

__ Robyn -:- Two questions... -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 15:02:02 (GMT)

__ __ Disculta -:- Bingo -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 22:10:44 (GMT)

__ __ __ shp -:- Request for source material of a quote -:- Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 18:35:49 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Disculta -:- Request for source material of a quote -:- Wed, Jan 03, 2001 at 02:07:18 (GMT)

__ __ __ Kelly -:- re that idiot Andrew Cohen -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 22:24:06 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Disculta -:- Don't go near him! -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 22:43:21 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- low spark of high heeled boys -:- Wed, Jan 03, 2001 at 01:43:38 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Steve Quint -:- Does Anybody Know What 'Low Spark Of High-Heeled -:- Wed, Jan 03, 2001 at 21:33:22 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ hamzen -:- Only guessing Steve but -:- Thurs, Jan 04, 2001 at 13:53:28 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Helen -:- low spark of high heeled boys -:- Wed, Jan 03, 2001 at 03:04:08 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ ham -:- Great album, great band, -:- Wed, Jan 03, 2001 at 12:43:31 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Helen -:- Great album, great band,(ot) -:- Wed, Jan 03, 2001 at 21:33:03 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ ham -:- If I ever get over I'll definitely take you up -:- Wed, Jan 03, 2001 at 23:22:41 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Helen -:- If I ever get over I'll definitely take you up -:- Thurs, Jan 04, 2001 at 02:55:26 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ ham -:- That'd be well cool -:- Thurs, Jan 04, 2001 at 04:03:36 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Steve Quint -:- Great album, great band, -:- Wed, Jan 03, 2001 at 15:04:35 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- low spark of high heeled boys -:- Wed, Jan 03, 2001 at 05:08:08 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Helen -:- low spark of high heeled boys -:- Wed, Jan 03, 2001 at 21:26:33 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- no, it wasn't that disturbing -:- Thurs, Jan 04, 2001 at 03:43:37 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Kelly -:- Wouldn't touch him with a barge pole -:- Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 00:20:27 (GMT)

__ hamzen -:- Two questions... -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 14:30:37 (GMT)

__ __ ham -:- PS -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 14:41:06 (GMT)

__ __ __ Robyn -:- PS -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 14:51:53 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ ham -:- Think you had a lot more sense than me -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 18:11:24 (GMT)

__ Aussi Ji -:- Two questions... -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 10:36:16 (GMT)

Bazza -:- Another one for my library -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 05:44:42 (GMT)

Aussi Ji -:- I wish to thank everyone -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 03:07:36 (GMT)

__ Kelly -:- I also wish to thank everyone -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 15:35:10 (GMT)

__ __ hamzen -:- But the liar that he is always leaks -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 18:22:26 (GMT)

__ __ __ Kelly -:- no no no, don't get me wrong -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 20:44:15 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ hamzen -:- I suspect it will be a long haul Kelly -:- Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 14:58:48 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Kelly -:- I suspect it will be a long haul Kelly -:- Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 22:45:47 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Disculta -:- Contaminated meditation -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 21:50:43 (GMT)

__ __ la-ex -:- Kelly-thanks for your posts and Congratulations... -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 17:51:34 (GMT)

__ __ __ Kelly -:- la-ex, absolutely right! -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 21:57:10 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ la-ex -:- la-ex, absolutely right!/about that video... -:- Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 01:48:31 (GMT)

__ hamzen -:- Excellent news -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 14:37:34 (GMT)

__ __ Aussi Ji -:- Thanks mate -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 18:22:50 (GMT)

__ __ __ hamzen -:- Depends on the mood! -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 18:26:44 (GMT)

__ Robyn -:- I wish to thank everyone -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 14:11:23 (GMT)

__ __ Aussi Ji -:- I wish to thank everyone -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 18:27:37 (GMT)

__ NEWS -:- ONE MORE IS OUT!! :) -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 06:29:36 (GMT)

ulf -:- moving on -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 01:44:35 (GMT)

__ Robyn -:- moving on -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 14:13:53 (GMT)

__ sam -:- great to not feel guilty on new years day hey? nt -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 08:08:10 (GMT)

__ Sir Dave -:- moving on -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 06:07:03 (GMT)

Marianne -:- Back to Ireland -:- Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 18:18:44 (GMT)

__ Maurice -:- Back to Ireland -:- Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 01:01:14 (GMT)

__ Kelly -:- Welcome to Ireland -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 22:10:02 (GMT)

__ Susan -:- Have a wonderful journey -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 02:33:02 (GMT)

__ such -:- Would you be going by County Cork, perhaps? (nt -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 01:29:17 (GMT)

__ Katie -:- Back to Ireland -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 00:40:15 (GMT)

__ Bazza -:- Back to Ireland -:- Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 22:45:17 (GMT)

__ Salam -:- Don't forget the rubber boots and electric socks -:- Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 22:14:01 (GMT)

__ Roger eDrek -:- Hey! What about my death penalty case? -:- Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 21:43:59 (GMT)

__ __ Bazza -:- Funny you should mention the driving thing again -:- Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 22:51:12 (GMT)

__ Gregg -:- Hope it's even better this time around! -:- Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 21:34:48 (GMT)

__ Disculta -:- Back to Ireland -:- Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 19:49:00 (GMT)

__ Cynthia -:- Back to Ireland--Hi Marianne!! -:- Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 18:44:54 (GMT)

__ __ Tim G -:- Back to Ireland--Hi Marianne!! -:- Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 21:16:43 (GMT)

Bongo -:- LOAF: Answers to your Questions -:- Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 17:29:49 (GMT)

Steve Quint -:- New Year's Wishes -:- Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 17:18:12 (GMT)

__ Katie -:- New Year's Wishes -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 00:21:45 (GMT)

__ __ Oliver -:- New Year's Wishes -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 18:03:18 (GMT)

__ Sir Dave -:- New Year's Wishes -:- Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 18:36:13 (GMT)

__ Scott T. -:- Happy New Millennium to the Aussies -:- Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 17:54:09 (GMT)

__ __ The Australian -:- Happy New Millennium to the Aussies -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 09:57:49 (GMT)

__ __ __ Olivetti -:- Our boy scout Prime Minister. -:- Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 00:54:03 (GMT)

Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 21:44:03 (GMT) From: Bazza Email: None To: Everyone Subject: ELK Ringing in the changes Message:

and ringing up the charges. Email they just sent me (dont they read this site???) Dear All Happy New Year! We are writing to you to ask for your help in overhauling and upgrading the website. We have some technical problems which we have already commissioned to be fixed and we also hope to give the site a face-lift for 2001. Interest in the site seems to remain constant, after 28 months, so we are looking to continue it for the foreseeable future. We require about UK pounds 1500 (US dollars 2250) to complete the work over the next three months or so. The software we use, Lotus Domino, although quite commonly used requires a fairly high level of expertise to maintain and amend. This means that we have to get commercial programmers to work on the site, which they are happy to do at a deeply discounted rate. In case you are wondering wey we continue with Domino, the reasons are that it allows us to maintain the dynamic nature of the site and it is very easy to update and also means that a number of people can work on the site at the same time from different locations. If you would like to contribute there are three ways in which you can help: 1. If you don't live in the UK, send us a UK pound sterling cheque or banker's draft drawn on a UK bank to the address below. Enjoying Life PO Box 1698 Bourne End Bucks, SL8 5GU UK. 2. By telegraphic transfer to: Account name: Enjoying Life Account number: 0150471 Bank sort code: 30-93-68 Bank name: Lloyds TSB Bank Bank Branch: Great Portland Street Bank Address: London W1A 4LN, UK Please remember to pay all the charges your end. 3. If you live in the UK you can send us a UK cheque to the PO Box above or we can send you a standing order form so that you can make regular monthly contributions. Just let us know your address so that we can send you the form. Any amount will help and be appreciated. We regret we cannot accept credit card payments. Please advise us by email if you are going to make a contribution. Thank you for your support. The enjoyinglife team

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Date: Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 00:17:15 (GMT) From: suchabonneannee Email: None To: Bazza Subject: Possible scam for another Rolex,liposuction?! (nt Message:

nt

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 23:22:39 (GMT) From: Lotus Domino Email: None To: Bazza Subject: Sledgehammer To Crack Nut Message:

What the fuck are these jokers using this to run a website for? Lotus Domino No wonder they can't afford to keep it going. There isn't one premie willing or able to administer their site.

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Date: Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 01:17:37 (GMT) From: Sir Dave Email: None To: Lotus Domino Subject: Yeah but this is a classic Message:

It says on the Lotus Domino site: 'Think about your own job... Is it hard to define? Do you have a fancy title with responsibilities that are broad and somewhat vague? Do you get to the end of a long, productive work day and wonder what you did and what you produced? If you're nodding your head and saying 'yes, that sounds just like my life!' then you'll love Domino. It's just like you!' Now can you see why the people at enjoyinlife.org chose Lotus Domino? But I do agree that they've chosen something which is far too sophisticated for the their website. Or perhaps they originally had big plans for an interactive web presence and then realised too late that such a thing wasn't possible with Maharaji breathing down their necks.

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Date: Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 03:34:23 (GMT) From: Bazza Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: My favourite paragraph Message:

This one: 'The software we use, Lotus Domino, although quite commonly used requires a fairly high level of expertise to maintain and amend. This means that we have to get commercial programmers to work on the site, which they are happy to do at a deeply discounted rate. In case you are wondering wey we continue with Domino, the reasons are that it allows us to maintain the dynamic nature of the site and it is very easy to update and also means that a number of people can work on the site at the same time from different locations.' So they need all that money to pay these sophisticated premie(?) programmers (must be premies, right? why would anyone else be happy to give a deeply discounted rate?) for this overblown software which they apparantly need becoz the site is so dynamic. Dynamic? How? As in Flash 5 dynamic? As in Streaming Media dynamic? Anyway then they contradict themselves by saying its easy to update - so why the need for specialist expensive programmers? and then top it off by the ludicrous benefit of being able to have a number of people ... work on the site at the same time from different locations. Duh! You mean you can't do that with Unix or Linux? Shit I can have 10 people work on my site with Dreamweaver 4 from anywhere in the world if I give them the passwords and server url. The embarrassing thing is I actually fell for this spiel a year or so ago and sent them money, which is why I got the email again I suppose. PS Dave did you get my email about wanting suggestions/advice for another website?

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Date: Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 03:52:15 (GMT) From: Sir Dave Email: None To: Bazza Subject: My favourite paragraph Message:

Yes and I'll reply now I've noticed it amongst all the ex-premie spam. Group hug - I like it. .. Dave

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Date: Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 06:19:07 (GMT) From: Oliver Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: What ex-premie spam? (NT) :))) Message:

nt

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Date: Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 03:57:08 (GMT) From: Bazza Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: Cheers mate nt Message:

lasnlk

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 21:57:28 (GMT) From: Steve Quint Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com To: Bazza Subject: ELK Ringing in the changes Message:

I wonder - don't they know their boss is worth kazillions of dollars. Steve

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 22:23:23 (GMT) From: Bazza Email: None To: Steve Quint Subject: But Steve its not about the money Message:

Its the opportunity to Participate, see. I think we should all chip in you know. After all, we get some of our funniest quotes and potty poetry from there. I fwdwd the email to Jim because I know he'll want to contribute!

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 21:53:29 (GMT) From: Disculta Email: None To: Bazza Subject: ELK Ringing in the changes Message:

Happy New Year Bazza! It must be exciting to be out, but not be known to be out. You will look back at this time in your life with glee and humor. Plus, the opportunities for espionage are great, I would think. A great new year of freedom awaits you. Love Disculta

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 22:09:22 (GMT) From: Bazza Email: None To: Disculta Subject: Guess they're just not in synch Message:

Happy New Year to you too! Its not like I've made a secret of it! You think I should put on a wig and a false beard and go to the next Satellite (non)Event at the Womens Club in Miami Beach? Or the next Synchronized Training at the Radisson Deauville on Collins? I know the AV guys there, they'll let me in the back way;-). Honestly I'd rather watch paint dry.

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 21:19:25 (GMT) From: Andrew Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Now read the book... Message:

Thanks everyone who replied to my last question. I understand that there is a difference between reading about someones teachings and being a disciple of a guru. One more thing on my mind... why hasn't anybody written a short meditation book on the 4 techniques that would bypass Maharaji's organisation? I know they are on this site, but imagine if they were in a small book on meditation that was freely available in any good bookshop around the world. I can't imagine that these techniques are copyrighted. You could even call it 'Knowledge' if there is no copyright of association. The effect of this would be extremely undermining for Elan Vital because suddenly the bait to attract people into the organisation is no longer as attractive. The outcome might be that less people are used and abused, and any benefits of the techniques themselves could be shared with more people. Thanks, Andrew

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 22:40:17 (GMT) From: Scott T. Email: None To: Andrew Subject: Now read the book... Message:

Andrew: I think there are books all over the place with the same or very similar techniques. Gurdjiev even has them in one of his books, and Yogananda/SRF teaches a version. I'd be a lot more willing to buy a good book on cycling technique, or rowing. Better yet, a good book on how to write a book. --Scott

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 22:08:02 (GMT) From: Gregg Email: None To: Andrew Subject: Now read the book... Message:

The Four techniques really aren't all that special, if you ask me. There are many similar meditation techniques out there...Maharaj Ji's only shtick is the overblown Bhakti thing, which is now underplayed, of course. And speaking of books, why doesn't Maharaj Ji write one? Because he has nothing to say! Read some of his speeches and you'll see what I mean. Whatever Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche's shortcomings may have been, at least he had enough smarts to write a few fine books.

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 18:17:02 (GMT) From: Oliver Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Was I or was I not banned??? Message:

Forum Elves wrote: As far as we can tell, Salam, Oliver is not blocked. Oliver responded: Then can you tell me why I was constantly asked for a password when trying to post? You could also tell me why my e-mail regarding same was ignored. How much can a koala bear? Anyone been to Rob's site lately. Oliver. Ps. Where the fuck is he anyway?

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Date: Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 20:33:01 (GMT) From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Oliver Subject: Was I or was I not banned??? Message:

Then can you tell me why I was constantly asked for a password when trying to post? Your complaint is that you aren't ALWAYS blocked. You are posting through an ISP that is blocked. But the person who put the block in place didn't block the ISP's entire range of addresses - a mistake. When you connect via a blocked IP address, you get prompted. When you connect via an IP address outside the range of the block then you don't get prompted. You could also tell me why my e-mail regarding same was ignored. It wasn't 'ignored'. It just wasn't read. The FA is away for a few days, and someone else is handling the forum. That person has no access to the forum email account.

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Date: Wed, Jan 03, 2001 at 01:54:37 (GMT) From: Oliver Email: None To: Brian Subject: Re: Was I or was I not banned??? Message:

Thank you.

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 18:38:37 (GMT) From: Aussi Ji Email: None To: Oliver Subject: Geez you're up early. Message:

nt

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 19:02:46 (GMT) From: oliver Email: None To: Aussi Ji Subject: The early bird, catches the worm. (NT) Message:

nt :)))

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 19:48:19 (GMT) From: suchaBanana Email: None To: oliver Subject: Yuk, you eat worms? (Naturally,I'm fruitarian) (nt Message:

nt

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 21:36:24 (GMT) From: Oliver Email: None To: suchaBanana Subject: No, I like to fish. (nt) Message:

fish.

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 21:51:27 (GMT) From: Aussi Ji Email: None To: Oliver Subject: I like shrimps on the barby nt Message:

nt

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Date: Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 00:08:42 (GMT) From: suchabonanza Email: None To: Aussi Ji Subject: Like,Dudes!I can make you Fishers of huMensche (nt Message:

nt

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Date: Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 09:30:48 (GMT) From: Oliver Email: None To: FA Subject: I think I was but someone had a change of mind - Message:

Cya.

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Date: Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 17:38:31 (GMT) From: suchibonita Email: None To: Oliver Subject: m. say: A Mind is a terrible thing to have! (nt Message:

nt

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 16:32:36 (GMT) From: Wish Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Internet's influence on propagation? Message:

Premies are thrilled that EV is all over the internet, and that they can see their lard's fat face from a satelite. Now they assume that their cult is in full bloom, propagation has skyrocketed, next phase is on, and their illusion of being on the right path is heightened. On the other hand, I keep reading here that the cult is on its last legs and dying quickly. Is this just wishfull thinking on our part? Both sides are very biased on this issue. So what's the real story?

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Date: Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 21:27:19 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: Wish Subject: It doesn't matter Wish. Message:

Hi Wish, When DLM was in it's expansionist heyday in the 70s, it was a tacky introverted personality cult. Now it is in decline in the 00s, it's still a tacky, introverted, personality cult. Doesn't matter if it's growing or shrinking. He ain't the Lord of the Universe and it is a cult. Anth- throwing statistics to the wind.

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 22:43:07 (GMT) From: Joe Email: None To: Wish Subject: Internet's influence on propagation? Message:

Wish, In all my time as a premie, the Maharaji cult was always just on the 'verge' of propogation skyrocketing. First it was Millennium, then it was humanitarian leader, then it was, better materials, then it was lots of initiators, then it was no initiators, then it was technology, blahblahblah. Nothing has ever worked. All these things are just a way for the truly programmed to have an excuse as to why something that is supposed to be so wonderful is of so little interest the the vast majority of people, and also, why, Maharaji puts many times more resources into his own lifestyle than he does in 'spreading knowledge.' It's wishful thinking, wish. Through technology and better 'synchronization' it is finally going to come together and people will recognize Maharaji for the incarnation of god that he is, which most of the premies from the 70s still believe, deep down at least. This also, will fail, because Maharaji isn't really interested in 'spreading knowledge.' He is intereseted in MONEY, and not losing what he's got. Even Elan Vital admits on its website that NO ONE received knowledge in Europe in all of last year. Also, although they don't give stats, I would bet only a handful, if any, received knowledge in North America last year either. Perhaps India is a different story, but I agree with La-Ex on the reasons for that. Joe

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 19:55:50 (GMT) From: Sir Dave Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com To: Wish Subject: Internet's influence on propagation? Message:

Ever since Maharaji's speech a few years ago when he told premies not to meddle with the internet but to 'Get a life', ever since then (and before) the internet has been gnawing away at Maharaji's power base. It's slow but sure and Maharaji has tried all sorts of differing plans to combat it. His first plan was to tell people to get a life and not use the internet. That didn't work. Next he forebade premies from posting on the internet. That didn't work. Next he set up enjoyinglife.org to try to counter the ex-premie sites. That didn't work. He set up his own website at maharaji.org and clearly that didn't work and he's abandoned that site to the internet wasteland now with no real work done on it for ages. Next Maharaji tried to close all the ex-premie websites down but that didn't work since he they all started up again in no time at all and of course, he didn't even try to close down ex-premie.org because that would have meant a real court case with real publicity. So what's Maharaji to do now? All he can do now is spew out more spin about how successful propogation is on the premie web sites like Elan Vital etc. But as mentioned in la-ex's post, that isn't real propogation and in monetary terms which are the terms in which Maharaji thinks, those people who've received k in India and Africa are not worth much to him. Basically, the following in the Western world is in decline as it has been for a long time. Premies themselves only now extoll the virtues of 'knowledge' which as we know here, is the only thing that's left after seeing how Maharaji really is.

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 17:09:35 (GMT) From: la-ex Email: None To: Wish Subject: Here's my take... Message:

Wish- you bring up an interesting point, and here's my take, from someone who was involved until this last year, and still has an eye on activities in a community, and knows friends in other communities as well... There is a big surge in India...the numbers are probably right... However, you have to understand that in India, people may have 4 or 5 gurus that they worship, much like people in the US may have 4 or 5 gurus that they consult(new age healers, therapists,motivational people like Tony Robbins, relationship 'experts' like John Gray etc. etc.) Also, the idea of a satellite and TV in a rural village in India, where everyone huddles around the video feed at night is very novel right now.... However, in an article I just read about the satellite dish phenomenon in third world countries, a man did an extensive tour of poor, third world countries (mostly in Africa, and India) and found that the number one watched TV show, by far, is Professional (?) Wrestling!!! That's right, Hulk Hogan and Stone Cold Steve Austin are being watched regularly and thoroughtly enjoyed by poor Indian women in villages making chapatis and raising 8 kids... So, My point is that in India, it's very acceptable to flirt with 4 or 5 gurus, and the high tech aspect is probably intriguing for them... In the US, I believe that most premies are fairly well asleep, except for a few in each community that have been allowed into the 'inner circle' of information recently, in the last year or two. Initially, they were intrigued by this position of newfound inside power, but are now seeing that it is not much more than a facade or facelift of something that's not selling too well, and hasn't been for years...for instance, in this community, the contact person fought and elbowed his way into the position a few years ago, only to realize now that he doesn't want to do it anymore..he's trying to pass it along to someone else, but no one wants to take the job, because they realize the same thing as he does... Also, with Michael Dettmers talking out, and possibly others to follow, there is a mojor earthquake hitting the premie communitiies that only the most brainwashed will ignore...

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 22:03:20 (GMT) From: Steve Quint Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com To: la-ex Subject: Here's my take... Message:

Similar in Vancouver. As far as I know there hasn't been a community coordinator in a few months. Steve

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 19:44:25 (GMT) From: suchabandon Email: None To: la-ex Subject: Well,me and 3 other premie-Lifers jumped ship! (nt Message:

nt

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 22:37:58 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: suchabandon Subject: Not speaking of the 1,600 aspirants they claim!!! Message:

I gues they still count them the same way, to avoid m's anger ....

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Date: Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 04:18:32 (GMT) From: Daneane Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Not speaking of the 1,600 aspirants they claim!!! Message:

Yeah, they have a funny way of counting. See I'd thought they said I counted. But I misunderstood. What they meant was they were counting me. I guess I was aspirant #45-60 or so for each event I attended? Boy what a population explosion!

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Date: Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 16:30:28 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Daneane Subject: More on EV's algebra Message:

Each time you showed up to an event, you've been counted 1 aspirant. Means if you showed up 10 time in 2000, you're 10 out of the '1600' aspirants for the year 2000 .... I really wonder how many real people those 1600 count for ! 20 real aspirants in West these days ? A bit more ? ..... They'll never admit. Plus they're unable to count them.

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Date: Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 21:41:40 (GMT) From: Lesley Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Counting chickens before they're hatched Message:

Phew, thanks for that, I always feel a stab of concern when I hear about the latest huge numbers of people waiting to receive this blessed knowledge. I calculate that the five hangers around in this neck of the woods add about 100 aspirants a year to the figures! Thats great, I can't stop laughing...

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Date: Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 00:27:54 (GMT) From: suchabonhomme Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Zut alors,leur arithmetique est tres mauvaise! (nt Message:

nt

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 08:38:05 (GMT) From: Andrew Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Two questions... Message:

Hello Everyone Happy New Year! I am not a premie, have a few premie friends, and recently discovered your site. Although I am outraged at M's behaviour and could never personally accept anything from the man, I do have a couple of nagging questions (they have probably been asked many times before... so apologies for bringing them up again): 1) To what extent is Knowledge independent of M (not in an historical sense which we know it is, but in a psychological sense)? Do any of you who have rejected M still practice Knowledge because of the strength of the meditation techniques themselves? 2) I have a friend I respect very much who is a premie and has been one since the DLM started. When I relayed some of the information that I had read on this site and another to her, she told me that she had heard it all before through the grapevine (although not the story about M killing a man in India). She told me that she is perfectly aware of all this 'weird stuff' that went on but said that it all happened a while back. She says that M is a human (although divinely connected in her opinion) and that, although he has made many mistakes in the past, he is growing and changing the whole time. She says that he is VERY different now than he was (for example, he is no longer an alcoholic). Is this true? Do any of you have uptodate information? And if he has changed, to what extent can we judge somebody's message by their past behaviour - or even, I suppose, their present behaviour. (I personally love reading books by the Tibetan lama Chogyam Trungpa which I find very inspiring. I am also aware that he led an outrageous life and eventually died of AIDS, but that seems to make absolutely no difference to my respect for his teachings. I suppose the difference for me is that this man did not set himself up as anything other than a teacher from a tradition that was larger than himself.) Your thoughts on these points would be much appreciated. Andrew

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Date: Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 20:38:43 (GMT) From: Joe Email: None To: Andrew Subject: Two questions... Message:

Personally, I think 'Knowledge' is a loaded and meaningless term. It's one of those words like 'that love' that becomes some kind of code word in the Maharaji-cult world, that doesn't mean much, but everyone thinks and agrees is so full of meaning. What 'knowledge' is is four meditation techniques that some people find relaxing and helpful and some don't. I am one who doesn't. It is meditation that is of no more value, in my opinion, than TM, breath exercises, or meditation techniques that are taught in seminars about reducing stress. It's only all the spiritual mumbo-jumbo that gets added to it, which is really the 'knowledge religion' along with the word coding that prevents people from really analyzing what they are doing, that creates the 'knowledge works' business. What on earth does that mean? Does it mean you 'feel good' (sometimes) when you do meditation? If that's true, then why don't premies just say that? I think the point about Maharaji's behavior is that all but a tiny handful of his followers have even met Maharaji, and don't know him at all. That's what makes all this devotional/grateful stuff so absurd. How can you LOVE someone who you have never met? The point about disclosing what an immoral asshole Maharaji has been is to dispell the idea that he is some kind of person worthy of devotion, love and gratitude. His life is a mess. He drinks, takes drugs, engages in sex with his followers and then disposes of them, usurps his responsbility for killing someone, and keeps it all secret to the extent he can. He hides out and presents a false image of himself to his followers. But even if has 'reformed' which I would doubt until it was proven otherwise, part of reforming is taking responsbility, publicly, for what he has done. It is disclosing the truth and explaining how he has reformed, what steps he has taken to change. And he hasn't done that, and continues to refuse to to that. So, he is just as despicable and unreformed now as he was when we know he was fucking and discarding his followers, and I would suggest that probably hasn't changed anyway. We are informed that, at least, he, to this day, has a mistress despite being married with kids. Does your friend know about that? Is this one area where he hasn't really 'evolved' yet? For someone who is supposed to be an example of someone who is really experiencing knowledge and one to whom premies want to look for instruction and guidance, it is really amazing how LOW, LOW, LOW the standards of these premies are when it comes to Maharaji.

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Date: Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 22:38:39 (GMT) From: Thelma Email: thunderstealing@hotmail.com To: Joe Subject: Two questions... Message:

As you so rightly point out: 'Knowledge' is indeed a 'loaded and meaningless term.' I just don't know what else to call it as I am not some 'master' who needs to package his product in sound-bites. It's called kriya yoga in India but is so mixed up with primitive cow-worship and guru-bhakti shit that it is impenetrable to all but the most desperately self-deluded New Age Birkenstock-shod crystal-gazing vegans in need of a blood transfusion from Berkeley. Maybe I never practiced 'Knowledge' in all the 28 years I thought I was doing it but I enjoy taking an hour every morning to be quiet, relax and feel comfortable and refreshed. Everything else experienced 'inside oneself' is by definition subjective and unprovable. As I said to Gerry I just want to have some fun and get high with a little help from my friends.

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Date: Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 23:12:09 (GMT) From: Joe Email: None To: Thelma Subject: Don't Knock Berkeley Message:

My boyfriend is from Berkeley, so I've been spending a lot more time there, and you might find it is a bit more Yuppified these days, with astronomical housing costs. Not quite so new age, anymore. It has become a Gourmet Ghetto, you know, Che Panisse and the like, but not a lot of BMWs, more Saabs and Volvos. Lots and lots of Volvos. Come to think of it, why didn't we start worshipping cows? If Maharaji had said to do it, I probably would have.

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Date: Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 02:57:58 (GMT) From: Thelma Email: thunderstealing@hotmail.com To: Andrew Subject: Two questions... Message:

Hi Andrew, I have never posted here before but have been following this site for a couple of years even though I still practice the kriya yoga (Knowledge) techniques and have until recently listened to M's increasingly trivial and tatselessly self-congratulatory talks. However your questions seemed too earnest to ignore. After having been involved in the organization for 12 years I dropped out of it 15 years ago because I could no longer stomach the church-ladies and their endless fussing over white table-cloths and their weird messianic expectations. About a year ago decided to get involved in the local community when I heard that some sort of democratic glasnost was taking place. I was hoping to be able to help to deconstruct the whole guru-worship/personality cult thing and assert that Knowledge is far more important than a very fallible and mortal human being no matter how supposedly advanced a yogi he is. (Knowledge to me is a democratic not a dictatorial thing - I came to it because of the whole hippie-psychedelic love revolution.) Needless to say I failed and had to retreat. But that's a whole nother story which I will post if anyone's interested. You ask: 'To what extent is Knowledge independent of M (not in an historical sense which we know it is, but in a psychological sense)? Do any of you who have rejected M still practice Knowledge because of the strength of the meditation techniques themselves?' I answer: I have rejected M as my teacher because I really can't stand rich greedy undemocratic libertarians which is what he still is and always has been. Having once been one of the anti-apartheid 'communists' they put in jail in South Africa in the sixties I guess I'll always be a shit-stirring pinko hippie fag. M does have psychological control over Knowledge if you let him have it. Knowledge is what you make of it yourself. Any benefits derived from it are purely from your own effort. If you are asking this question because you are interested in getting Knowledge I would advise you to wait until the shit hits the fan - which it will. There is a movement afoot that will eventually blow M's game. Have you checked out the premies comments on 'Life's aFoot?' It's at http://www.hotboards.com/plus/plus.mirage?who=premieforum They are what I call the 'unpremie' culture. And there are more of us around than either ex-premies or cult-premies. In fact I'm thinking of doing a website for people with Knowledge who want to get high but can't stand the church-ladies of Elan Vital or the Holy Cow who runs the show. They worship cows - and gurus - in that supposed land of enlightenment, India. In America we eat cows and require gurus to obey the laws of democracy. But I can't get into being angry or bitter which is why I don't waste my time posting vituperative comments here. I just wanna get high. Knowledge is an old and tried and trusted way to do that. But the techniques are not nearly as important as your own efforts to be more conscious which is why many other forms of meditation achieve the same end result. Just sitting (za-zen) and practicing silence and awareness can do it. It is the desire to be high that gets you high. Knowledge is not some magic formula. I have practiced and enjoyed it for 28 years and I can tell you that one's efforts are more important than the techniques. Wishing you all health, wealth and happiness for this new century, Thelma the Thunderstealing Bitch

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Date: Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 20:51:11 (GMT) From: Stonor Email: None To: Thelma Subject: FYI Thelma ... Message:

Hi Thelma, Just thought both you and Andrew should know that there are only a couple of 'premies' posting at 'Life's aFoot' lately. DavidJ, Elaine (sort of), and the forum god there, CD. All the others are exes and nons(2). Anna

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Date: Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 15:41:06 (GMT) From: hamzen Email: ham@hamzen.freeserve.co.uk To: Thelma Subject: A few comments Thelma Message:

By the way hi, always good to see new people posting, and as a fellow libertarian, the main reason I'm here, this site should reflect all flavours, even if a lot of us here find any kind of spiritual route hogwash, there are a number of others who don't, and even if you were the only one, so what, I'm sure someone who did jail fighting anti-apartheid can cope with a bit of verbal flak if it comes. After having been involved in the organization for 12 years I dropped out of it 15 years ago because I could no longer stomach the church-ladies and their endless fussing over white table-cloths and their weird messianic expectations. About a year ago decided to get involved in the local community when I heard that some sort of democratic glasnost was taking place. I was hoping to be able to help to deconstruct the whole guru-worship/personality cult thing and assert that Knowledge is far more important than a very fallible and mortal human being no matter how supposedly advanced a yogi he is. (Knowledge to me is a democratic not a dictatorial thing - I came to it because of the whole hippie-psychedelic love revolution.) Needless to say I failed and had to retreat. But that's a whole nother story which I will post if anyone's interested. Think you're journey of going back after a long break would help deconstruct the myth that it's all changed which we know it hasn't, rinse out the pr/spin side of ev/gm I answer: I have rejected M as my teacher because I really can't stand rich greedy undemocratic libertarians which is what he still is and always has been. Having once been one of the anti-apartheid 'communists' they put in jail in South Africa in the sixties I guess I'll always be a shit-stirring pinko hippie fag. M does have psychological control over Knowledge if you let him have it. Knowledge is what you make of it yourself. Any benefits derived from it are purely from your own effort. If you are asking this question because you are interested in getting Knowledge I would advise you to wait until the shit hits the fan - which it will. Practice of k, and I say it as someone who it worked for big-time, I left because he obviously had no desire to spread this k, is as much about luck as anything else if it works. Before coming here I would have agreed with you, but a number of people have convinced me otherwise. There are a number of people here who practiced k assiduously and with sincerity for years, nay decades, and their sincerity produced minimal experiences of value. But re k, the techniques are freely available on this site. With the techniques, the luck that they are the right techniques for you, and the right attitude, there is no need for any involvement at all, in fact would say anyone getting involved is seriouslyt risking their mental health. They are what I call the 'unpremie' culture. And there are more of us around than either ex-premies or cult-premies. In fact I'm thinking of doing a website for people with Knowledge who want to get high but can't stand the church-ladies of Elan Vital or the Holy Cow who runs the show. They worship cows - and gurus - in that supposed land of enlightenment, India. In America we eat cows and require gurus to obey the laws of democracy. But I can't get into being angry or bitter which is why I don't waste my time posting vituperative comments here. I just wanna get high. Knowledge is an old and tried and trusted way to do that. But the techniques are not nearly as important as your own efforts to be more conscious which is why many other forms of meditation achieve the same end result. Just sitting (za-zen) and practicing silence and awareness can do it. It is the desire to be high that gets you high. Knowledge is not some magic formula. I have practiced and enjoyed it for 28 years and I can tell you that one's efforts are more important than the techniques. You don't have to be angry or bitter to post here, like you most of my life is deicated to getting high, whether through k or other chemikals or just living, a lot of this site is also about community, sharing, not just attacking gm. It is also obvious that you can't stand gm, that makes you an ex-premie whether you accept that or not, this site is specifically about the fraudulence of gm, not dissing k. He sells the package on the triangle, the individual, k, and gm. He makes it quite plain that he is crucial to the process, if you don't believe that you aree an ex-premie, premie doesn't just mean a believer in god, but a believer that ONLY gm has the power to show you this experience. Here's hoping you hang around, even if just occasionally, the more libertarians the better I say. By the way, say hello to Louise!

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Date: Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 19:57:08 (GMT) From: Thelma Email: thunderstealing@hotmail.com To: hamzen Subject: A few comments from Thelma Message:

Hi Hamzen, Thanks for reading and replying to my post. I understood most of your points but I think you must have been stoned because it seems you left parts of your sentences out which made it hard to follow. BTW, I may even know you because I lived in UK for 8 years and got got K there in 73. I'm a 'democratic libertarian' and I criticized M for being an 'undemocratic libertarian,' the kind we have here in the US - right-wing gun-nut vigilante-nazis who believe that any limitations on their freedom to be selfish greedy assholes is anathema and who would like to see power returned to feudalistic warlords with private armies - in other words a lot like I think M and his Malibu groupies would be like if they could get away with it. As for my attempt to help deconstruct the cult - what can I say? I must have been feeling the warm fuzzies from a nice joint when I thought of that but I'm a pie-eyed optimist and it took me a year to realize that not only had glasnost not been introduced and not only had the cult not changed for the better but it had actually gotten worse. The church-ladies appeared on the surface to be quite sweet, sincere and reasonable but after a while one began to get an eerie feeling that one was really dealing with the Stepford wives. The only good that came from my foray back into the fold was that it removed the last remaining remnants of my toleration for M or his devotees. Oh, and I do have my moments of anger and bitterness but prefer not to feel those emotions and would rather see M brought to justice by humor and satire than vituperation. Laughter and derision are healthier than anger and bitterness. Yes, I am an ex-premie in so far as I feel sympathy for the stated mission of this forum: to request that M state publicly that he has misled people and apologise for that and to make reparations for the damage that he has done to people. I don't suffer as much because I never felt that I was ever a premie (hence the term 'un-premie') as I never liked M to start with but I do know that many people were badly hurt because they placed their trust in a cold, calculating, selfish fraud. PS I am an atheist or maybe somebody who just thinks of god as a democracy made up of 6 billion conscious human beings with no almighty lord - we're it.

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Date: Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 22:04:27 (GMT) From: hamzen Email: None To: Thelma Subject: You're not synchronised Thelma, that's the problem Message:

Scary stuff eh, and to think they are seriously trying to spin their way out, very cartoonish really, and the numbers, people are swarming in to the new sales pitch. Someone tried to tell me recently that numbers are rising, the ability for self-delusion of premies is almost wonderful to behold. Re the shorthand, sorry, not enough time in the day, still want to post, blah de blah. If only it was smoke induced!

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Date: Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 22:50:20 (GMT) From: Thelma Email: thunderstealing@hotmail.com To: hamzen Subject: You're not synchronised Thelma Message:

I wish I was as hard as some of you guys. I've been deluged with emails from all my premie acquaintances all so excited that the Lord of the Universe is going to be in Oxnard soon. Maybe I'm a bleeding-hearted liberal more than a libertarian but I feel so sorry for these guys. Most of them have IQs the same size as their shoes and are often ugly or otherwise socially challenged nerds and drips. They would not have any friends or any life at all if it were not for the cult. Breaks my bloody heart.

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Date: Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 22:17:51 (GMT) From: gerry Email: None To: hamzen Subject: Hey we're synchronized.... Message:

Ham, Is cartoonish the word of the day? Funny I just used it to you below and now read yours!

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Date: Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 22:28:23 (GMT) From: ham Email: None To: gerry Subject: The cosmos moves in mysterious ways eh! Message:

For a real cartoon strip see Anths post about hecklers, under Thelmas thread about the 14th, I'll say no more, it cracked me up.

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Date: Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 20:15:56 (GMT) From: gerry Email: None To: Thelma Subject: Thelma's misconceptions Message:

I'm a 'democratic libertarian' and I criticized M for being an 'undemocratic libertarian,' the kind we have here in the US - right-wing gun-nut vigilante-nazis who believe that any limitations on their freedom to be selfish greedy assholes is anathema and who would like to see power returned to feudalistic warlords with private armies You don't know what the fuck you're talking about, Thelma. This is a gross mischaracterization of libertarianism. You piss me off with this shit.

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Date: Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 21:56:04 (GMT) From: ham Email: None To: gerry Subject: So how about a def Gerr? Message:

Assuming by your reaction you aren't into Thelma's view of democratic libertarians, which she seemed very pro! Actually saying I'm a libertarian was strictly untrue, of the sort that give libertarians a bad name saw a tv prog recently on some backwoodsmen who were straight neo-nazis, swatikas and all, very scary, thought that was the type she was referring to. Here in the uk there is an interesting debate going on within the conservative party. The control freak conservatives are just about to lose another election so badly they could become a sideshow. They can't fake the Blairite middle way so they're stuck, the tory/conservAtive libertarians are starting to get some influence especially relating to the drug angle.When you have 50% of uk under 35s doing drugs on a weekly, nay daily basis, and for over 10 years, who by the way mostly don't vote, there's a strong argument for co-opting them by freeing up the drug laws. The shadow home secretary recently advocated instant £100 fines, and was shot down by a number of members of her own party, mostly shadow cabinet members, who admitted they had smoked dope. In itself amazing, but one of them admitted eating space cakes and having a grand time. When you consider how anti-drugs the Tories have always been, well interesting to say the least, and with the freedom of no power for another 5 years the only possible alternative pitch for them at present, especially since the british public is too advanced for an old school con like bush to get in here.

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Date: Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 23:02:12 (GMT) From: Thelma Email: thunderstealing@hotmail.com To: ham Subject: So how about a definition of libertarianism? Message:

In the 22 years since I discovered libertarianism (when I first came to the US) I've read and written many an article in various publications. There is a huge range of 'libertarian' philosophy all the way from those who each want their own nuclear bomb, to Green libs, to marxist libs, to cultic Randian Objectivists to the relatively sane and refreshingly sensible Libertarian Party on whose candidates I regularly waste my vote and in whose circles I move in my line of business. Gerry is right to chastise me. It is not good to introduce a word without defining it especially when it is a fairly unknown idea. Libertarianism (as defined by the Libertarian Party) is classic liberalism taken to its logical conclusion.

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Date: Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 23:17:47 (GMT) From: gerry Email: None To: Thelma Subject: I think I love you thelma... Message:

Libertarianism is: classic liberalism taken to its logical conclusion. Yes indeed. Thanks.

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Date: Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 23:56:38 (GMT) From: hamzen Email: None To: gerry Subject: Blimey, Message:

so what would you say was the difference between a libertarian and an anarchist? It's obvious that my reading on the topic is a lot shallower than you, Gerry and Joe, apologies to the three of ya? Re your post above about sad premies, well maybe for myself it's because I recognize that that sad fuckerdom was in me as well, anger with myself as much as anything. I never felt a connection to gm, remember finding a couple of his satsangs abusive and guilt laden in '76, yet was still going to occasional programmes in the late eighties. Had a really hard time with premie communities, only kept going to satsang because my experiences in meditation were so strong. Had no historical understanding of the techniques, yet when I wAlked realized just how much garbage I had taken in. Even though in my head I'd approached k with strong taoist/zen tendencies, I'd fooled myself, believed I was much more detached from it all than I had been. For years I was open to the lila possibilities, wanted it to be true about him, because I couldn't see any possibility for the huge change that was required because of the inevitable environmental destruction globally that was coming I suspect. Even in spite of that, can remember thinking a lot of people here were too aggressive in their communication when I first arrived. Was open with the premies that came here, but I soon learnt. The premies who come here are the worst kind of denial infected revisionists. That and still being in communication with my ex, a gorgeous person, but someone who thinks it's all just about the experience, everything else is irrelevant. I've increasingly come to the conclusion that that hippy nice naivete is actually very dangerous, whether in premie format or elsewhere. The punk thing of never trust a hippy makes a lot of sense to me, and again that's partially because of a huge dose of that still in my head. The problem is, the infuriating nature of premies is exactly as you stated, Stepford Wives, a term I've used about premies for a long time myself, a state it's impossible to communicate with. I sometimes wonder if that hippy niceness isn't more dangerous than obvious nastiness. A lot of my mates now are into the house scene, proudly joke about their hippy tendencies, but what they mean by hippyness is a lot more streetwise than the actual reality.

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Date: Wed, Jan 03, 2001 at 00:06:30 (GMT) From: ham Email: None To: hamzen Subject: Previous post should be to Thelma not you Gerr! Message:

think I must be missing the chemikals more than I thought! although would also like to know your def of the differences between libertarianism & anarchism.

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Date: Wed, Jan 03, 2001 at 00:39:48 (GMT) From: gerry Email: None To: ham Subject: Thanks, I'm off the hook to answer... Message:

I'm not at all conversant with anarchism, maybe there are some similarities.

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Date: Wed, Jan 03, 2001 at 09:51:30 (GMT) From: The Thunderstealing Bitch Email: None To: gerry, hamzen, ham Subject: libertarianism v anarchy Message:

The word anarchism was used by the early marxists (such as those in Prussia in 1848) to describe the supposed utopian outcome of the communist revolutions, that is: nice, civilized socialism would evolve into a moneyless, egalitarian society with no rulers. It was Chopinesquely romantic and idealistic. The establishment of course used the older word anarchy (with its hints of chaos) instead of the -ism to frighten the petite bourgeousie into thinking of looting and mayhem. To be accurate I think of myself more as a democratic anarchist (wanting no ruler or authority other than common sense arrived at through civilized debate) than a libertarian because, unfortunately, the libertarian belief in total individual freedom has been often twisted by neo-reaganites to mean that they can be antisocial, unethical and greedy. These greedy buggers have taken a perfectly decent philosophy and interpreted it to justify survival of the fittest darwinism and have separated libertarianism's belief in free markets from it's kindler gentler cousin, classical democratic liberalism. Now you won't love me any more, Gerry. BTW you all seem to be gentlemen. I was expecting the usual anonymity-induced uncouthness and teenage internet-jock ad hominems on this forum. It seems so much more polite than some discussion boards I've posted on - especially the anarchist or libertarian ones. OOps! I guess I asked for one below the belt. Hamzen, do you want a response to your musings on British politics and the house/rave/ecstasy streetsmart neohippies or were you just indulging in a stream-of-consciousness thread of your own?

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Date: Wed, Jan 03, 2001 at 18:11:44 (GMT) From: gerry Email: None To: The Thunderstealing Bitch Subject: I still love you, thelma Message:

To be accurate I think of myself more as a democratic anarchist (wanting no ruler or authority other than common sense arrived at through civilized debate) than a libertarian because, unfortunately, the libertarian belief in total individual freedom has been often twisted by neo-reaganites to mean that they can be antisocial, unethical and greedy. These greedy buggers have taken a perfectly decent philosophy and interpreted it to justify survival of the fittest darwinism and have separated libertarianism's belief in free markets from it's kindler gentler cousin, classical democratic liberalism. It seems every good thing gets distorted and highjacked by nasty folks. Keep votin' libertarian. Here in Washington state where I live, over a million votes were cast for Libertarian candidates. Hey, it's a start...

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Date: Wed, Jan 03, 2001 at 12:28:46 (GMT) From: ham Email: None To: The Thunderstealing Bitch Subject: Are you serious, here come the breakbeats, and Message:

the phat bass, won't ya fill me in, trying to get anyones ears opened about the huge number of countries getting hit by house culture is serious for me, well as serious as you can get about this stuff, even for a sad fucking trainspotter like me. Most people here have ears blocked since the 70's. The effect on brit culture has been enormous, and pretty invisible, because they've kept it all within normal materialist culture. One of the reasons I don't have any illusions about house stuff, which by thw way is 10 times larger in number than the sixties here, the only other culture it superficially relates to. Starting to kick off right across sud america now, blah de blah, the one area I do think it will have an effect maybe politically is the us of a. When you have midwest youths, in the numbers happening over the last 12 months, getting into e's, well when the media kicks in, there's gonna be an almighty political backlash, suspect especially with bush in, and the christian right. Re politeness, cause we're fucking polite, we were all premies, although when any lying revisionist premies turn up it can get a bit lively. So do ya know any good anarchist sites, ie non bullshit ones? Oh by the way, this forum is completely freeform, if you see a post, any post you're interested in, go for it. Although I suspect I'm in a minority here on this one, I think the off topic posts are as relevant as the on topic ones, after all we were all nuns without a life, short of an education etc, learning to think again etc And as though I could refuse a request from a thunderstealing bitch!

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Date: Wed, Jan 03, 2001 at 18:46:45 (GMT) From: Thelma Email: thunderstealing@hotmail.com To: Gerry an the trainspotter Subject: Are you serious? Message:

Thank you, Gerry, for saying you stil love me. Yep, I'll keep on wasting my vote on my Libertarian friends but they always get fewer votes than the Greens in this neck of the woods - too many endangered owls and whales and unreconstructed Birkenstock-shod hairy-armpit types here. My first two ex-husbands were English and you do twang my nostalgia strings with your trainspotting sweetness. But, as someone who crawled from sleeping-bag to sleeping-bag giving blowjobs to stoned hippies in the sixties, I can't relate to the house MUSIC and therefore it's culture. Always loved the sex and drugs but hated rock-n-roll. Prefer a rousing Stabat Mater or Requiem anyday. And, no, I don't know any Brit anarchist sites and I wouldn't recommend any of the US anarchist sites to you. You'd have to have the patience of a saint to deal with all the irony-challenged literal-minded second-generation hog-fuckers from Minnesota.

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Date: Wed, Jan 03, 2001 at 23:43:47 (GMT) From: ham Email: ham@hamzen.freeserve.co.uk To: Thelma Subject: Nostalgia, yuch Message:

Well if I needed any reminding of what a sad fucking hippy I still am, you've done it there! And what's so sad is I half took that as a compliment! While talking of compliments, even bearing in mind your dodgy music taste, you're the first person who's been here that I had down as a possible raver, like your attitude. Still in this group of ancients, it's probably only sad fucking living hippy relics who could be so adolescent, c'est la vie. Re decent anarchist sites, not surprized, probably a contradiction in terms anyway, I certainly have never found one. As for greens/feminists, couldn't agree more, bearing in mind I am a 90% vegan, and have been for 20 years +. But that bogus, pc side of the eco movement always drove me nuts, I wouldn't mind, but none of them have a clue how to communicate. Just like premies, if you didn't get the message, it was your fault, absolutely no understanding of communication theory, let alone the way social change happens. Not that global warming matters now, it's way too late, what a generation of useless fuckers we were.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 04, 2001 at 01:14:35 (GMT) From: The Thunderstealing Bitch Email: None To: the ham Subject: PS to the Ham Message:

Sorry, should have started a new thread. We're too damn low down her and far removed from the original topic.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 04, 2001 at 01:11:23 (GMT) From: Thelma Email: None To: ham Subject: Nostalgia, yuch Message:

You old ham, you. All of what I said was meant to be a compliment. I don't join too many other threads here because of the lack of irony (see Pauline the Premies thread above to see what I mean by 'irony-challenged second-generation hog-fuckers from Minnesota') and I have simply glommed onto your wordly-weary trainspotting sweetness with relief and glee. Living in the US has cured me of any illusion that, just because we speak English, we are speaking the same language. I just saw another post from a Brit saying that Yanks are irony-challenged. By irony I mean something a lot softer than sarcasm. Most Yanks prefer the latter and I have slipped into it in the 22 years I've lived here. You are, however, on the whole not a sarcastic person. You say: '...even bearing in mind your dodgy music taste, you're the first person who's been here that I had down as a possible raver, like your attitude. Still in this group of ancients, it's probably only sad fucking living hippy relics who could be so adolescent, c'est la vie.' Many of my friends are indeed ravers. Most of them are also 20 or more years younger than me (including my two current husbands) but I do know two who are my age, former hippie-fags-turned-ecstasy-fairies all of whose friends are also younger. They nag me to accompany them for all night dancing-on-ecstasy-orgies but it's hard with two husbands who are stuffier than me and don't like to rave. The music's okay if you're on E but my liver's too old for chemicals (other than claret and pot) which is why I still meditate. What you and I share with the ravers is the attitude - anarchistic, streetwise, slightly worldly-weary and strongly authority-wary, egalitarian and iconoclastic. My son is a raver who of course instinctively disliked M when I took him to see the Lard. He called M a 'jumped up little quasi-god.' He was raised mostly in UK and still lives there. And I love being an adolescent. Many wise men have trotted out the old horse 'with the heart of a child.' As for the rest of your trainspotting worldy-weary pessimism and self-recrimination - I say: 'I'm not too mad about the blues either. Like house, a little goes a long way.' Were you born in 1946, the Year of the Under Dog? PS I got a lot of email about my original posting and most of them were so sweet and sincere that I felt like a fraud and I had to confess to them that Thelma is only a pseudonym and I really have balls.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 04, 2001 at 03:40:14 (GMT) From: ham Email: None To: Thelma Subject: I knew it, yeah, praise the lord Message:

Well thank god for that, it means even on the net I can spot 'em a mile off, you leak raver energy all over the place, but it's the first time I've had my intuition tested on the net, and I think you'll have to agree 'the lad done well' You old ham, you. Well ya got to do something to pass the time, eh!, or as me ole gran used to say, god bless her cotton sox, 'to keep you off the streets and out of mischief'. All of what I said was meant to be a compliment. I thought so, although it wasn't crystal clear, but nostalgia gives me the willies & I just get so pissed off at my hippie niceness at times, really wish I had more of a punkish fuck you attitude, it would save me so much grief being so values oriented. I don't join too many other threads here because of the lack of irony (see Pauline the Premies thread above to see what I mean by 'irony-challenged second-generation hog-fuckers from Minnesota') and I have simply glommed onto your wordly-weary trainspotting sweetness with relief and glee. You should have been here a couple of months back if you reckon it's bad now, it drove me away for a while. The problem is that that is one of the worst by-products of cultdom, lack of/loss of social skills, and in a world where such stuff has developed/advanced enormously, but of course in gm's blissful paradise where only premies learn anything....blah de blah Living in the US has cured me of any illusion that, just because we speak English, we are speaking the same language. I just saw another post from a Brit saying that Yanks are irony-challenged. By irony I mean something a lot softer than sarcasm. Most Yanks prefer the latter and I have slipped into it in the 22 years I've lived here. You are, however, on the whole not a sarcastic person. Know EXACTLY what you mean, did have a whole thread on this a couple of months back, some right laughs I can tell ya, but then I have to be careful too, trainspotters can be a tad, well trainspotterish at times. Jim's caught me out more than a few times, good man that he is. You say: '...even bearing in mind your dodgy music taste, you're the first person who's been here that I had down as a possible raver, like your attitude. Still in this group of ancients, it's probably only sad fucking living hippy relics who could be so adolescent, c'est la vie.' Many of my friends are indeed ravers. Most of them are also 20 or more years younger than me (including my two current husbands) but I do know two who are my age, former hippie-fags-turned-ecstasy-fairies all of whose friends are also younger. They nag me to accompany them for all night dancing-on-ecstasy-orgies but it's hard with two husbands who are stuffier than me and don't like to rave. Two husbands eh, well that takes me back to a previous incarnation I'd rather forget, you could of course drop them off in the chill-out room and pop in to say high occasionally! The music's okay if you're on E but my liver's too old for chemicals (other than claret and pot) which is why I still meditate.You get a liver reaction on e's, even say on a third? even on mushies? that surprizes me, are we talkinng techno? trance? house? hi-nrg? obviously not drum&bass? what about alt type chill-out do's, multi-media, vj''ing etc?, sorry to be so specific, but I'm really trying to map the spread of it all in the us of a. What you and I share with the ravers is the attitude - anarchistic, streetwise, slightly worldly-weary and strongly authority-wary, egalitarian and iconoclastic. My son is a raver who of course instinctively disliked M when I took him to see the Lard. He called M a 'jumped up little quasi-god.' He was raised mostly in UK and still lives there. And I love being an adolescent. Many wise men have trotted out the old horse 'with the heart of a child.' Beautyifully put, can relate to big time, your son (how old?) sounds spot on, EVERYONE I know on the rave scene would say exactly the same thing, gm hasn't got a clue just how developed social mores are now, but then how could he when democracy is THE key component of that development. Sometimes think the premie community, especially the old timers, see social communication as a static thing, assume it's still exactly the same....nuff said As for the rest of your trainspotting worldy-weary pessimism and self-recrimination - I say: 'I'm not too mad about the blues either. Like house, a little goes a long way.' Shit we're gonna have to work on you 'thelma' methinks, just know you haven't heard other stuff, bet you've been hanging around with techno/trancers. Fancy going on me tape list? Your son dj by the way? Were you born in 1946, the Year of the Under Dog? PS I got a lot of email about my original posting and most of them were so sweet and sincere that I felt like a fraud and I had to confess to them that Thelma is only a pseudonym and I really have balls. Very predictable, knew it wasn't the whole story, born '52. Well Thelma, a big thanks for that post, NEVER thought the topic would come up here naturally, but it shows me I've still got some healing to do, if nothing else joining my post ev existence with before. Ohh by the way, I still meditate too, always got a massive amount from it, in fact left because it became obvious gm had experienced less than I had on it, and had no intention to share it wider. I've also got a good theory as to how it does work for those whom it does work for, did you know we all produce dmt naturally by-the-way? chemical bio-feedback I reckon. from one wannabee tranny to another! Hope even if it's too straitlaced for ya here, that you still post occasionally, your route is different enough to add to the flavours here bigtime, especially coming back after the long gap catch ya around ohh by the way, I'm an atheist emotionally, but intellectually an agnostic, although jim's argument about santa did put me on the spot, another time

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Date: Thurs, Jan 04, 2001 at 04:37:11 (GMT) From: Thelma Email: None To: ham Subject: I knew it, yeah, praise the lord Message:

I thought you were praising the lord because I had balls (Ah, silly me) when all you were doing was praising the lord that I was a raver. Did you see my new posting at the top of the page just above Pauline's delicious satire and your new thread?

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Date: Thurs, Jan 04, 2001 at 13:33:15 (GMT) From: ham Email: None To: Thelma Subject: Not quite accurate Thelma Message:

Praising the lord because it meant that I'd picked up on the raver energy coming off ya, and my intuition was accurate. Just read the thread, will e-mail ya.

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Date: Wed, Jan 03, 2001 at 19:38:33 (GMT) From: gerry Email: None To: Thelma Subject: Hey cuz... Message:

I live in McCleary Washington. Gotta few tree huggers here too. Nearby? PS what's wrong with hairy armpits :)

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Date: Wed, Jan 03, 2001 at 20:06:10 (GMT) From: Thelma Email: thunderstealing@hotmail.com To: gerry Subject: Hey cuz... Message:

Nothing wrong with hairy armpits. I love sniffing 'em especially with no deodorant or other chemicals. It's just that they are used by the Birkenstock crowd as an in-your-face politically correct statement. Don't like in-your-face politically correct statements.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 04, 2001 at 01:28:39 (GMT) From: GERRY Email: None To: Thelma Subject: yOu have...BOLLOCKS ?!? Message:

well I meant platonic love, of course.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 04, 2001 at 02:38:18 (GMT) From: Thelma Email: None To: GERRY Subject: Platonic love Message:

At my age, platonic love is welcome and often more than I expect.

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Date: Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 22:13:22 (GMT) From: gerry Email: None To: ham Subject: So how about a def Gerr? Message:

I personally never made the connection between libertarians and those barbarians running around in the woods shooting off thier guns and their mouths. Maybe that's because there is no connection. I'm all for Thelma's brand but I can't allow the cartoonish description to pass without comment. Hell, I'm a libertarian and I'm no gun-toting nutcase. (Well, not gun-toting anyway.) If people would simply do a web search on the libertarian party, they would see what it's all about. And Thelma, the libertarian ideology is what makes the whole thing tick. It is an ideology. But it's the opposite of dogmatic. It's about allowing people the MAXIMUM freedom possible, without harming another's property or rights.

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Date: Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 21:49:53 (GMT) From: Thelma Email: thunderstealing@hotmail.com To: gerry Subject: libertarianism Message:

Sorry I pissed you off. I do know what libertarianism is and reagrd myself as one but there are some egomaniacal darwinistic survival of the fittest UN-democratic libertarians out there who give freedom a bad name. I'm the kind of libertarian who just wants to have some fun and get high with a little help from my frineds not some dogmatic ideologue.

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Date: Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 21:56:14 (GMT) From: gerry Email: None To: Thelma Subject: libertarianism Message:

If you like to party, the libertarians are the ones for you! I don't understand why all liberal, freedom loving people don't embrace libertarianism. Liberty! Also check out Harry Browne's website. He was the Lib. candidate for pres this last election.

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Date: Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 20:15:32 (GMT) From: Joe Email: None To: Thelma Subject: Fascist is a better term Message:

I'm not sure what 'undemocratic libertarian' means. I have always thought that Libertarians were just Republicans who don't believe in God. (That was an attempt at humor.) I think the better term for Maharaji is fascist. He exercises an extreme form of top-down dictatorship in his little cult-world, and requires extreme indoctrination, censorship and propoganda among his troops. Yes, I could see how they would appear to be Stepford wives. Part of the programming is that one is supposed to always act happy, even if you aren't, that all that goes wrong is due to you, or your mind, and that Maharaji is responsible for all the good stuff, little that it is, and none of the bad stuff. Closed, fascist system. Also, he requires that premies engage in self-censorship even with each other, and has even abandoned satsang so that he can prevent as little exchange of honest feelings and information as possible. Any premie who actually starts talking about what he or she is really thinking is quickly ostracized or shot down, made to feel guilty and stops, mostly out of fear. If he or she doesn't stop, he or she is pretty soon an ex-premie. Partly because his paranoid control regime is so transparent, he tries to fly below the radar and tries to keep himself out of the attention of the media. He has much more to lose by making some kind of a splash than he has to gain. Hence, there are hardly any aspirants because almost nobody even knows Maharaji exists anymore, despite continues and extensive fundraising to supposedly 'spread knowledge.' But he continues to hold on to his aging devotees from the 70s who still think he's god and haven't examined that issue for 25 or 30 years, because they are the major source of his funds.

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Date: Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 22:14:30 (GMT) From: ham Email: None To: Joe Subject: Great def of gm as usual Joe Message:

Specially loved 'he tries to fly below the radar', I got an image of him literally as an avatar superman , can you imagine, he'd hit the deck after twenty yards at 10mph, especially when he got distracted by some blonde on the ground. Wicked joke as well!!

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Date: Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 02:53:46 (GMT) From: m Email: None To: Andrew Subject: Two questions... Message:

b

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Date: Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 02:41:11 (GMT) From: Susan Email: None To: Andrew Subject: Two questions... Message:

question 1- I do not practice the meditation anymore. Bad memories. I think the techniques are fine but they came with a lot of baggage. 2- As Scott said, how could the guru have changed in a meaningful way if he still blatantly denies the past? He has never taken any responsibilty for any of his actions. He denies and evades his Perfect Master, Agya, Satguru past when it seems to his advantage and then puts the whole dog and pony show on in India, and I believe invites the true believing '70s hanger oner insiders over to see it. The only way any change on his part would be real is if in a heartfelt soul searching way he looked at his past and dealt with it. That would mean a lot of apologies and even in some cases I believe financial restitution. I do not think he has the courage or character to ever face reality about the real legacy he has left on the lives he has impacted.

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 22:34:27 (GMT) From: Scott T. Email: None To: Andrew Subject: Two questions... Message:

Andrew: I think the meditation techniques have some value, though I don't know that it's more than other meditation techniques or even psychotherapy. The experience seems significant, but I'm open to the possibility that it's just a curiosity with no lasting value. I mean, it seems to calm me down sometimes, but deep breathing does that. I don't think it has made me either smarter or dumber, nor has it given me any special insight... at least not to the extent that scientific method has. As for your friend's attitude about Maharaji's 'maturation' my take is that if he never makes amends for his own past practices and for selling himself as some sort of avatar, and in fact has never so much as acknowledged he ever did any such thing, then I can't see that he's grown very much. I mean, he hasn't even done as much as a recovered alcoholic let alone a valid spiritual teacher. Your friend is self-deluded. BTW, how is Kevin? --Scott

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 17:41:41 (GMT) From: la-ex Email: None To: Andrew Subject: Two questions../one answer to something else.... Message:

Andrew- I wanted to add one thing that I feel is EXTREMELY destructive and fraudulent about m's teachings...it is also one of the reasons, I believe, for so much of the anger that is directed at m... M presented himslef, as THE teacher, with THE answer....the tree amongst weeds,the avatar, the perfect master etc. etc. Implicit in this title or proclamation about himself, was the absolute message and belief that he was in, and always is in, THAT PLACE, (some sort of state of awakened or elevated consciousness)ALL the time, and that you weren't. But you could be, if only you tried harder. But you weren't, because you weren't trying hard enough. THAT, to me, is the beginning of a never ending game of (high and mighty)GURU and (lowly and undeserving)DISCIPLE (excuse me, disciple should probably be in lower case letters, but , what the hell...) When you buy into that game, you begin a never ending and never fulfilling game of trying to be perfect, which m certainly is not, and you aren't either,and then failing (inevitable), and then re-doubling your efforts to be a bettter devotee... One day, (for me it was personal events in my life, and to a large extent, this site), things caused me to wake up and realize how stupid,silly and destructive the whole process was. Another red flag for me was when I mentioned some of my doubts to a friend; he quickly and defensively replied that he had 'no doubts, and no concepts either'...I knew this was a crock of shit, because I knew him quite well...this led to more questioning.... But, to me, one of the most destructive and fraudulent things has been the belief that m implanted in us that he was always experienceing knowledge, and that we could only begin to approach his level of experience through a lifetime of slave like obedience and a non-questioning acceptance of everything (no matter how wrong or stupid) he ever said... Because you never are in THAT experience all the time,and you believe he is,you are continually trying harder to get to a place that you will never get to, and he has never been...\ OK, that's it, for now...thought you might be interested, even though it didn't really answer your 2 questions directly...

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Date: Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 07:19:22 (GMT) From: Curious Gorge Email: None To: la-ex Subject: Thanks L A ex and Happy New Year Message:

Enjoyed this and many others of your post over this last year. Love, C.G.

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 17:05:05 (GMT) From: Helen Email: None To: Andrew Subject: Two questions... Message:

I think that it's outrageous that Trungpa's devotees or followers were faithfully following his dictates to not be attached etc., and meanwhile he was abusing alcohol, having sex with devotees etc. It's equally outrageous that Maharaji advocates a lifestyle of meditation and detachment and cannot practice it himself. Yes some of their teachings may remain valid for some, it's the relationship to the guru that is the destructive part. The guru is supposed to be someone who has mastered the techniques and is one with God/enlightenment. The devotees give their lives over to these incredibly dysfunctional people in faith and trust that they have a clue about reality. The whole fallacy of the guru trip is clear: no one has achieved 'Enlightenment' and it's a mistake for people to put their blind faith in other people. Most of the teachings put emphasis on the guru-disciple relationship and a lot of the teachings recommend things that are too extreme to be healthy, IMO. Hard to separate the teachings from the gurus but even if one can glean some good from the teachings,the guru's actions are the real deal--to me, that never changes. Better to abolish the idea of gurus altogether, IMO, and find some real people whose lives are worthy of emulating. No one is perfect, that's for sure, but certainly there are people in the world who do not set themselves up as perfect, can acknowledge when they have done something wrong and admit that they don't have all the answers. If you examine Maharaji carefully you'll notice that he never comes down from his lofty throne. This is a perfect human being? I don't think so.

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 15:02:02 (GMT) From: Robyn Email: None To: Andrew Subject: Two questions... Message:

Dear Andrew, I was only in the cult a couple of years in the 70's and have continued since that time, with varying commitment, to meditate on light and the word, only very recently moving beyond using those techiques only. Like ham, I don't use techniques and I have read of many other here that don't either. I never touch my eyes, when doing light and if I need a little boost to my concentration I only lightly touch my third eye with the tip of my finger. What I really wanted to comment on was the way your friend's defense of m reminds me of the way a friend of mine defends her relationship, not all women do it and it strikes me as making excusses and being to caught up in the other person. 'although he has made many mistakes in the past, he is growing and changing the whole time. She says that he is VERY different now than he was' The litmus test is when you look back 1, 5, 10, 20 years do you see striking change or is it really just little cyclical ups and downs that make staying the same look like change! I don't see strinking change for the better when I do that with m, that is 100% sure! Love, Robyn

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 22:10:44 (GMT) From: Disculta Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Bingo Message:

One of the definitions I once read of codependence is when you are in love with the other person's POTENTIAL> I think that what you said about looking back and seeing if there is real change or just cycling is the whole essence of the thing. There is no way that Maha is growing in the sense that we would define it. It is antithetical to the identity he has taken on, and continues to hold onto, white-knuckled, in the face of not only our derision and revelations but also the general world-wide increase in consciousness and lucidity about all this stuff. When we got into the cult (1971 for me) there was no information about the various forms of abuse he is now accused of. They weren't even considered abuse. No one had dissected the whole abuse-of-power thing. A lot of people were in a trance that 'there are enlightened people out there and I must become one,' or 'anything Eastern is superior to us worldly fools.' But now things have changed radically. Even though there wasn't much public sympathy for Mj ever, there is now well-argued wholesale derision. The problem I see that he has gotten into is that in order to really grow, he has to let go of all the things he is probably addicted to, in particular being right and in control and wielding power and being adored. Not to mention more mundane addictions which probably all support this central addiction. There is this guru, Amrit Desai, who made a shot at getting off his high horse and getting into more equality with students, then was discovered boffing a bunch of women and lying about it and got kicked out of his ashram (Kripalu).( If anyone is interested, this whole tale is included in the good book 'Yoga and the Quest for the Real Self' or the Supreme self or something. ) I read an interview with Amrit Desai recently in that idiot Andrew Cohen's magazine What Is Enlightenment, and I have to say that he really doesn't seem to have gotten off his high horse and into his humanness despite the resounding public kick in the butt. At least in that interview. I mention him because he is actually a more mellow and wise man than MJ. I want to actually hold open the possibility that MJ will have a real awakening - I mean a REAL awakening - and that this will be beneficial to the people he has hurt, either by apologies or amends or just the freedom of seeing him as human. I do strongly believe in holding open possibilities for everyone - even myself with a 20-year illness: I am definitely getting better. I must say that seems easier than his recovery, but who knows? Don't Know Disculta

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Date: Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 18:35:49 (GMT) From: shp Email: None To: Disculta Subject: Request for source material of a quote Message:

'One of the definitions I once read of codependence is when you are in love with the other person's POTENTIAL.' - Disculta Hi Disculta, That thing you said which I copied above really opened up some doors for me. Do you remember where it came from? If not, no worries. That one line says alot. Clean organs really turn me on, you hoser you! Sandy

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Date: Wed, Jan 03, 2001 at 02:07:18 (GMT) From: Disculta Email: None To: shp Subject: Request for source material of a quote Message:

Can't remember. It might have been Women Who Love Too Much or one of those early books. Ms. Cleanest Liver

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 22:24:06 (GMT) From: Kelly Email: None To: Disculta Subject: re that idiot Andrew Cohen Message:

Hi Disculta' I have a friend who is seriously into Andrew Cohen, a friend I respect very much. Since my own awakening from the cult trance, I have been thinking about him a lot. I've read a couple of Cohen's books and am both impressed and concerned. Can you give me your take on this? I don't want to take too much of your time, but what's with the idiot? love Kelly

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 22:43:21 (GMT) From: Disculta Email: None To: Kelly Subject: Don't go near him! Message:

He used to operate around here - used to hold his satsang in my old yoga school in fact, and I know several ex-followers. He is a big sleaze. My ex-husband used to work in a fancy men's clothing store. All his devotees used to come in to buy him presents. Then he would come in with some guys he hung out with (and my ex-hub said they definitely seemed to be gay, but this could be his imagination) and they would exchange these sacred gifts for cold, hard cash. His mother wrote a book about him - I believe it's called Mother of God, or God's Mother, or some such thing. Apparently it's a pretty funny expose. The thing is, he's clever. He manages to seem intellectual and spiritual and get people like Ken Wilber to respect him. When I first moved to California, I had someone cleaning my house who really seemed like a premie. She had that humble, selfless, low self-esteem energy about her. I asked her who her guru was (which quite took her aback) and it was him. He considers himself perfect and better than his own guru (Poonjaji) whom he says he is morally superior to. I heard a tape of him having a kind of Advaitan cosmic duel with Ganga Ji, another Poonjaji follower greatly revered in this neck of the woods. They were each trying to prove each other wrong in the most hysterical way. He had a kind of whiny vibe and I was repulsed by him. And, as you know, I'm really into lots of spiritual stuff. I'm not just doing the 'it's spiritual and it's a teacher so it sucks' thing here. I have a friend who is an ex-follower who you can call if you're seriously feeling tempted. He will cure you, and he'll do it very funnily. Kelly, e-mail me if you want to talk more about it or call him. Love Disculta

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Date: Wed, Jan 03, 2001 at 01:43:38 (GMT) From: Roger eDrek Email: drek@oz.net To: Disculta Subject: low spark of high heeled boys Message:

Oh, god, is it that obvious? When I first moved to California, I had someone cleaning my house who really seemed like a premie. She had that humble, selfless, low self-esteem energy about her. I asked her who her guru was (which quite took her aback) and it was him. Are we marked for life? For me, yes! All those years putting Maharaji on the pedestal and myself in the gutter.

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Date: Wed, Jan 03, 2001 at 21:33:22 (GMT) From: Steve Quint Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com To: Everybody Subject: Does Anybody Know What 'Low Spark Of High-Heeled Message:

Boys' really means? Steve

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Date: Thurs, Jan 04, 2001 at 13:53:28 (GMT) From: hamzen Email: None To: Steve Quint Subject: Only guessing Steve but Message:

suspect the low spark refers to the crutch/genitals, ie male, and they all wore cuban high heeled boots, the other possibility is that like the Kinks' 'Lola' is about trannies.

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Date: Wed, Jan 03, 2001 at 03:04:08 (GMT) From: Helen Email: None To: Roger eDrek Subject: low spark of high heeled boys Message:

I know. Wasn't Disculta's description of that perfect? But don't worry, it's not a life sentence. (she said, neurotically casting her eyes downward lest she sound too proud of herself). I love that song by 'traffic', BTW. Brings back memories of driving out west in a van with my family, all 7 of us plus my sister's boyfriend, in 1968. We had an 8 track tape deck and listened to the same 4 tapes over and over. They were: Traffic Paul Simon Mamma Cass Beatles over and over and over again. Happy New Year!

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Date: Wed, Jan 03, 2001 at 12:43:31 (GMT) From: ham Email: None To: Helen Subject: Great album, great band, Message:

one of the few bands from back in the day I've still got any time for, Stevie Winwood, underrated, but did he lose the plot in the 80's or what, is he still doing stuff, probably in his sleep. Saw a tape of csny recently, recent stuff, god it was embarrassing, think NY was holding them all up by props.

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Date: Wed, Jan 03, 2001 at 21:33:03 (GMT) From: Helen Email: None To: ham Subject: Great album, great band,(ot) Message:

Yes, loved them (Traffic)! God it was great growing up in the 60's and 70's and having older siblings bringing home all this great music. Winwood's other later stuff isn't so bad, IMO, it's very singable. Then again my musical tastes are probably too pedestrian for you., Mr. Raver! I am actually having a Broadway musical sing a long party for my 43rd birthday in a few weeks. The cornier the better. I like just about every kind of music, what can I say? I know what you mean about csny. Thing is all those old rockers are just so happy to still be alive after abusing their bodies so badly all those years. Crosby has his new liver and alot of them are parents for the first time. A bunch of old fogies. They've lost their edge, they're just grateful not to be dead as doornails. Do they have VH1's show 'Face the Music' over thar in England? It's totally addictive, stories abotu all those rockers. Have a happy new year Hammie. Come to the states sometime and we'll go out dancing.

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Date: Wed, Jan 03, 2001 at 23:22:41 (GMT) From: ham Email: None To: Helen Subject: If I ever get over I'll definitely take you up Message:

on that! It would be a total pleasure I know. I did find the arc of a diver pretty shallow, and haven't heard anything since, but Stevie Winwood, his organ playing, just thinking about him circa 68-74 gives me the shivers. I guess I'm a psychedelic snob! It might seem a contradiction but older stuff, especially roots music I can still get off on, but I must admit, house stuff on chemicals, fuck off sub-bass, such a TOTAL body experience, it's the sheer intensity of it, with the really GREAT vibes, this generation is so sussed, mind you they probably wouldn't be if it wasn't for all the idiotic ideological mistakes we've made. Hey Helen, I'm after some folk music to remix, it would be great to work on stuff by someone I've had contact with, have you got anything recorded, ideally on cd, that you'd risk. I'm sure I remember you saying that you and your hubby did stuff. PS Supposedly there's some great folk based mixed with house stuff being produced by some young punky folky females at the mo here, one of them is out of the Waterson family, another name coming to mind is Kate Rusby (sp?), you heard anything? It's supposed to be great, not dodgy fusion music.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 04, 2001 at 02:55:26 (GMT) From: Helen Email: None To: ham Subject: If I ever get over I'll definitely take you up Message:

Haven't heard of the punky folkie artist you refer to. We are on a few CDs mostly singing back up stuff on a friends' CDs. They were recorded in some guy's garage--he mixes alot of stuff for folkies around here and his prices are cheap. When singing into the mike, it was covered over with old panty hose (as a sound absorber)--we are talking really low tech here. As folkies go, there are a few folkies here in the DC area who really are something. When you are talking about remixing, what exactly do you mean? I hope to come to England someday as well. Will look you and Nigel up if I do. Happy new year once again Hell

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Date: Thurs, Jan 04, 2001 at 04:03:36 (GMT) From: ham Email: None To: Helen Subject: That'd be well cool Message:

Haven't heard of the punky folkie artist you refer to. We are on a few CDs mostly singing back up stuff on a friends' CDs. They were recorded in some guy's garage--he mixes alot of stuff for folkies around here and his prices are cheap. When singing into the mike, it was covered over with old panty hose (as a sound absorber)--we are talking really low tech here. Recorded on 4-track? Reel-to-reel? If you could turn a couple of tracks into mp3 from the cd's it would be ok, or send over a cd if ya fancy, but ideally if you could get individual tracks off a 4-track say, and turn them into mp3's or put on a cd that would be excellent. As folkies go, there are a few folkies here in the DC area who really are something. When you are talking about remixing, what exactly do you mean? Re remixing, chopping bits out of the tracx, overlaying other instruments, adding fx/effects, you could be a dance diva yet! That's why getting the individual trax is better, because then you can get seperate/individual instrument breaks and work on them without other instruments getting in the way, ooohhhh I could do stuff to your vocals that would give you nightmares. To give you an example, changed some vocals the other week, mine/absolutely appalling, can't sing for toffee, and turned it into this deep dark sub-bass growly sound. Obviously I wouldn't do anything so extreme with yours, just add some beats, fatten up the bass, add some effects to the vocals (gentle) or lead instruments. It really would be good to see ya, suspect knowing the constant state of my bank balance, that you over here is more likely! By the way, give that man of yours a hug for us, for some reason I feel a lot of warmth for him. If I get hold of some of that new folkie stuff will send, and I know, still haven't sent you a tape yet, will arrive this year, promise, the last 6 months a bit of a nightmare for me, loads of catching up to do in a number of areas! Do you know the'West Coast of Clare'? Would love to do a remix of that, Nigel gave us a copy on cassette a while back by Planxty, love it, one ofg my fave trax of all time, love to have a copy of ya doing that.

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Date: Wed, Jan 03, 2001 at 15:04:35 (GMT) From: Steve Quint Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com To: ham Subject: Great album, great band, Message:

He was my favourite musician for half of the nineties. Check out his last two cd's - you can find them on Amazon. Steve

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Date: Wed, Jan 03, 2001 at 05:08:08 (GMT) From: Roger eDrek Email: drek@oz.net To: Helen Subject: low spark of high heeled boys Message:

Yes, Disculta's description or generalization was too perfect. God, I now I'm afflicted bad after 25+ years of sucking up water like a vegetarian. Yes, Happy New Year to you, too, Helen! Oh, my god, it's only Day 2 of the New Year and I'm tired already.

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Date: Wed, Jan 03, 2001 at 21:26:33 (GMT) From: Helen Email: None To: Roger eDrek Subject: low spark of high heeled boys Message:

I seem to be on a positive roll these days (these very recent days, well, okay, I've been in a good mood for about 3 days, snicker). I hope it's a sign that 2001 will be better than 2000. Do you find the recent revelations of Dettmer's to give you a sense of closure, or was it very disturbing for you? A serious question. How did it affect you? Hell

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Date: Thurs, Jan 04, 2001 at 03:43:37 (GMT) From: Roger eDrek Email: drek@oz.net To: Helen Subject: no, it wasn't that disturbing Message:

No, the Dettmers' revelations where not that disturbing nor unexpected. I've been hearing little stories for a long time and have more than suspected that he is as indulgement and humanly weak as all the rest of us. Other than him having all that money I feel sorry for him. But, there is some closure that came with Dettmers' up close and personal accounts, yes.

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Date: Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 00:20:27 (GMT) From: Kelly Email: None To: Disculta Subject: Wouldn't touch him with a barge pole Message:

Dear Disculta, Don't worry I ain't goin' nowhere near no guru nor teacher nor preacher in a long long time. Mind you I went to church on Christmas eve, sadly boring! BUT, I am seriously concerned for my friend. It was a strange thing when I finally saw through Miragey and his cult, because , one of my first queestions was 'are there any true real teachers out there?' and I wondered whether this guy Cohen might be for real, so have been doing a bit of checking, mostly out of concern for my friend. But, what can you do? I have been talking to one premie friend about my new perspective, and we end up agreeing about almost everything, but the big difference is that for him it still doesn't matter, but for me it does! Love Kelly ps I would like to talk more on this and I would like to talk to him, at least that's possible

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 14:30:37 (GMT) From: hamzen Email: None To: Andrew Subject: Two questions... Message:

Hi Andrew 1) To what extent is Knowledge independent of M (not in an historical sense which we know it is, but in a psychological sense)? Do any of you who have rejected M still practice Knowledge because of the strength of the meditation techniques themselves? A good question, I still meditate, although light and music I was able to experience without the techniques for years before I left. But I do have a problem with it. When meditating I still experience stuff just as strongly, but I can't do it regular regular, ie long term because of the years of association, a lot of anger comes up. I suspect that when you leave it depends on how close you were to the whole thing. Suspect that those who were closer find it harder. Suspect that if I had walked early it would be no problem. Too much gm programming leaked in, he is VERY repetitive in his talks, you get the drift 2) I have a friend I respect very much who is a premie and has been one since the DLM started. When I relayed some of the information that I had read on this site and another to her, she told me that she had heard it all before through the grapevine (although not the story about M killing a man in India). She told me that she is perfectly aware of all this 'weird stuff' that went on but said that it all happened a while back. She says that M is a human (although divinely connected in her opinion) and that, although he has made many mistakes in the past, he is growing and changing the whole time. She says that he is VERY different now than he was (for example, he is no longer an alcoholic). Is this true? Do any of you have uptodate information? And if he has changed, to what extent can we judge somebody's message by their past behaviour - or even, I suppose, their present behaviour. (I personally love reading books by the Tibetan lama Chogyam Trungpa which I find very inspiring. I am also aware that he led an outrageous life and eventually died of AIDS, but that seems to make absolutely no difference to my respect for his teachings. I suppose the difference for me is that this man did not set himself up as anything other than a teacher from a tradition that was larger than himself.) On this issue I think you need to look at why you find approaches inspiring. If the people who supposedly practised their routes were so unable to reach somewhere special then there is no special spiritual place, just a bunch of body feedback techniques. Suspect you need to take the juju out of the process. This need for belief in a spiritual route or realm, or god, is the hook, hope etc. In the end it's just about living and the moment, everything else is about hope, hope for somewhere that is better than the actual reality. As for gm now, well in India recently he harangued the listeners to one of his talks to not just sing the words to arti, but really mean it. The words are explicit in arti, HE is de man, lord of lords etc, he still does darshan, which is the same stuff, he recently bought a massive yacht, a very expensive new plane, put on his web site that he never said he was the man etc. The guy is still lying through his teeth, and for the same reason you still look for inspiration so do his followers who are still hanging on WHATEVER the actual reality. Some followers will be in denial for ever, it's just too difficult to come to terms with. Certain that stuff is still kicking off just takes time to leak through, this is peoples whole life wasted on one level, takes a long time to come to terms with

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 14:41:06 (GMT) From: ham Email: None To: hamzen Subject: PS Message:

Suspect it would be easier to meditate more if I wasn't coming here, those periods where I'm not visiting, the distance from all the memories increases greatly. But as in all things in this life, there is a price to pay, so....

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 14:51:53 (GMT) From: Robyn Email: None To: ham Subject: PS Message:

Dear ham, I like what you said about in the moment and everything else just being hope, so true. You may know this about me but I am trying to face things so starkly and honestly, no hope just trying to confront my reality as much as possible but I guess in my efforts and the successes I have with them that there is some hope there also, for good things to come of it. So glad I got out early and don't have that anger cause I love experiences, spontaneous or through meditation, that prove to me that there is much more to this life then what is on the surface. For me it is mostly a solitary thing though, keep it totaly personal and customized just for me. :) Happy New Year sweetie! :) Love, Robyn

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 18:11:24 (GMT) From: ham Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Think you had a lot more sense than me Message:

If only I'd got out early, suspect if I hadn't been in a premie marriage it would have helped, but there ya go, learning from mistakes etc. The other side is that I did it all in one big chunk, now re-balancing the other way, sometimes wish I wasn't so gung-ho in everything I do, but again, what is is etc etc

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 10:36:16 (GMT) From: Aussi Ji Email: None To: Andrew Subject: Two questions... Message:

G'Day Andrew, I will just answer your first question.I have over the years modified one of the techniques that I was shown when I received knowledge 26 years ago.I meditate nearly every day,sometimes more than once.I have modified it to suit myself and I look forward to sitting down to practise it as it takes me into that part of myself where I experience peace and a feeling of real freedom.That is it.I just enjoy it and I have no idea about god and spiritual matters at all.I guess you could say it is my own internal drug that is free of charge.It has NOTHING to do with Maharaji at all.NOTHING.It is mine alone. I hope this is of some assistance to you Andrew Cheers Aussi Ji.

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 05:44:42 (GMT) From: Bazza Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Another one for my library Message:

Just bought a book on eBay called STRANGE GODS: The Great American Cult Scare Anybody else own/read this? Has bits about DLM in it, guess I could post any good parts when I get it.

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 03:07:36 (GMT) From: Aussi Ji Email: None To: Everyone Subject: I wish to thank everyone Message:

G'Day to everyone, I would like to take this opportunity to thamk EVERYONE on this site who has helped me to become an EX.I first looked at the site a couple of years ago .My daughter had just bought her first computer and after connecting to the internet I asked her to look up M for me.Guess what she found.Yes.The ex premie site.I think that that finished any interest she may have had there and then(she had never been cohersed towards K anyway)I looked at the site and thought what a load of bullshit,poor people in their minds ect.Anyway after revisiting 6 months ago I have been slowly but surely seeing the light.No make that darkness.and the progression from premie to ex has been a very natural one.I will shutup now and save this up for the Journeys instead of wasting space here.I want to say THANK YOU TO ALL OF YOU PIONEERING SPIRITS OUT THERE WHO HAVE HELPED ME MAKE THE TRANSITION.My most heartfelt regards to you all. Aussi Ji PS.I will continue to be an irreverent aussi on this site and continue to have some fun interupted by seriousness as well.

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 15:35:10 (GMT) From: Kelly Email: None To: Everyone Subject: I also wish to thank everyone Message:

Happy New Year everyone. I would like to add my vote of thanks once again to you all. I have been away from the forum for a little while for a variety of reasons, one of which was the need to spend some time with my own thoughts. I think I have reached another stage in my journey out. At the moment it is best described as confusion and uncertainty. I have even caught myself saying 'what if I'm wrong?' and thinking back over all the good experiences I had in the cult, and trying to make sense of it all. To no avail!! I think it is sort of a reaction to the certainty I felt when I first 'saw' through it all, and the anger and disgust that was invoked by that revelation. I really appreciated Sandy's post below 'The thing of the thing' it reflects many of the questions I have been asking myself, and there have been many many more. Thanks Sandy, for putting it all down, and thanks also to all who posted in response I enjoyed them all, Joy and Disculta especially. Like Aussie Ji, I first visited this site about two years ago, it was a sort of fearful fascination that I felt every time I visited, and I also had a different reaction every time. I recognised that there was a part of me that really wanted to find out that the whole thing was a crock of shit; it would have been a great relief. But I thought that was my mind!! and, of course, it was! My poor maligned mind! There is no doubt that the stuff I read here about the man behind the stage persona played a great part in opening my eyes, and especially the Mike Dettmers testimonies, even though they were about things that happened a long time ago. Someone has posted above asking for more recent info. That's also what I thought when I first visited here. This is all old hat, we've all changed and grown, especially Marji. Now, I realise how important all this information is, however old. The re-writing of history is particularly shocking to me. I recently revisited M’s website. I have to confess something here. When I first saw it, as a premie, I thought it was absolutely exquisite, and I remember thinking that they (i.e. the ex-premies) would not be able to fault it!!!! Oh what a poor deluded soul I was! Anyway, I’m rambling a bit. I noticed he’s changed it a bit and the journey section is even more outrageous than ever. My guess is that it’s in response to this site. He says “I find myself in the continuous process of simplification, rediscovery and re-invention.” Re-invention indeed! Do you think he’s trying to justify it? As far as more recent information on M’s “ private” activities go. I’m sure more will come out. The big problem is that he keeps himself so hidden from outside scrutiny. Anything I could tell you would be second or third hand, told to me by premies close to him. He definitely still drinks, whether to excess or not, I don’t know. He smokes cigars. . I’ve heard some of the foul jokes he tells. I saw his mistress in his vicinity maybe two or three years ago. I didn’t see them in bed together. You see, that’s the problem, no real hard evidence, but enough to make it all add up for me. He hasn’t changed that much. What I have seen with my own eyes is his bad temper, I’ve seen him really shouting at people. In the end it was my own accumulated direct responses to him that finally did the trick. I really disliked so much of what he said and even more the way he said it. That loud declamatory tone of voice, I hated it, it became impossible for me to show anyone a video or invite them to an event. Just today I watched a video of him speaking at Harrogate. I keep doing this to check my reactions. Here’s a little excerpt. “Anytime you give the words that the Master has said to the student, in the interest of awakening him or her, anytime they are given an interpretation, that’s it, they are no longer the Master’s words. This is your life! My God! You cannot swim your boat on borrowed water, you cannot float your boat on borrowed water, nor can you sail this boat on borrowed wind, it has to be the one that comes to your sail, that which you can catch. No, it doesn’t need any interpretation. Feel it. You have been given the gift of knowledge, which I think is the most incredible gift that there is. Nobody deserves the gift of Knowledge, nobody” You see, he nearly says some good things, sail your own boat, live your own life, but there’s such sinister shit in there as well. For me at the moment he himself is doing the best job of releasing me from the delusion. I’ve got to go now and celebrate, my stepdaughter has just given birth to a baby girl, birth date 01/01/01 Wow!! Lots of love to you all Kelly

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 18:22:26 (GMT) From: hamzen Email: None To: Kelly Subject: But the liar that he is always leaks Message:

He has said that all the stuff about guru grewater than god was the mahatmas not him, which we know for a fact to be a lie, then recently in India he's telling them to really mean it when they sing the words to arti. Now there's no way that it's just a superficial cultural thing, we're not just talking stage designs with a hindi flavour after all. Surely it's about truth if it's about anything, yet the words to arti are explicit, so he's still an enormous liar. I suspect the guy survives just by feeding off of peoples hope. What I don't understand in your post is when you talk about your experiences, why can't you have those now? If you're one of the lucky ones who did get something from practicing k you were just triggering changes in yourself, nothing to do with him. Maybe you need to look at your need for something to hang onto, to get those experiences, which is just another dependency.

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 20:44:15 (GMT) From: Kelly Email: None To: hamzen Subject: no no no, don't get me wrong Message:

Hi Hamzen, By co-incidence I read your journey today, I was very struck with it. I also read Loafji's and J.M.'s These journeys are probably the most helpful part of this site for a new ex. About your post, I agree with everything you have to say, in fact i have been saying the same sort of thing myself, especially about India, because I have been there a lot recently and experienced the whole 'Lord' thing and 'only by His Grace ' and yet I have also experienced an amazing 'grace'. The thing is, I now realise IT IS NOT HIS GRACE. It is not his at all, it belongs to and lives in and around all of us. Someone once introduced me to a Native American way of looking at life. I loved it then, and I would like to know more about it now. But , nothing is written, it is passed on by word of mouth. It involves the 7 dark arrows,(what we are born with and have to overcome) the 7 light arrows( The things we can work on , and help ourselves with) and then there are the 7 rainbow arrows and they are just gifts, like illumination, like intimacy, it sounds like grace to me.! You can't make enlightenment happen you can only create the right environment, and hope for the best. If And only if, you're lucky you may get it. I,ve drifted a bit from what I wanted to say, which was No no no I am still having good experiences, and IMHO they are better than before, I am still meditating, but you see I never did it quite like I was supposed to anyway. BUT, I must admit, it has been harder lately simply because of the association with that fatguru. I am just beginning to get an idea of what the whole charismatic guru game was all about, and for that I have to thank you and all the others on this site who have made the information available. Thanks again. I welcome any input you can give me and any help in this process of extricating myself. I thought it was all over but now I realise it has just begun, love Kelly

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Date: Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 14:58:48 (GMT) From: hamzen Email: ham@hamzen.freeserve.co.uk To: Kelly Subject: I suspect it will be a long haul Kelly Message:

Know for myself that it's taken ten years to deconstruct, but then I am a bit of a pedant. The thing that really did it for me was meeting people not on a spiritual route who mirrored what a stiff arse know all I was, hiding behind k and the techniques. A lot of these people in the house scene were going thru STRONG what I would have called spiritual experiences, in fact the house scene as a whole was VERY blissful for about three years early nineties, and decided to step back from the spiritual bollox that was starting to surface. If you like their attitude was very zen/taoist. They got into the hippie vibe but weren't prepared to embrace the dodgier ends of it. The real secret is getting a new life, new friends etc, the more you live it, the greater the perspective. Certainly counselling has been good for those who could not cope with the loss of hope/faith. I suspect people who go off on another spiritual route before clearing the garbage are still in denial, but then I would say that being very anti ALL spiritual routes/new age stuff now. I think it's about facing the truth of it all, in the end we let ourselves be deluded and abused which can only mean we needed to hide on some level, not able to cope with this world etc. If for nothing else it will take a while because because of the sheer repetitiveness of all his talks drummed into our brain like dodgy soap powder advert mantras.

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Date: Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 22:45:47 (GMT) From: Kelly Email: None To: hamzen Subject: I suspect it will be a long haul Kelly Message:

Hi hamzen, I'm afraid you may be right, I thought i had gotten off lightly, I prided myself for maintaining a little objectivity, including an ability to be quite critical of fatguru.I have many more non premie friends than premies and a life outside of 'The world of knowledge' so I count myself lucky. But, now i'm beginning to get an idea of just how sneakily and subtly undermining it has been, and how deep it goes. Some days I am clear and delighted to be free, but on others i find it all very confusing. C'est la vie! Thanks for your support and Viva EPO love kelly

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 21:50:43 (GMT) From: Disculta Email: None To: Kelly Subject: Contaminated meditation Message:

Hi Kelly, Thanks for your thanks above! This whole thing about contaminated meditation - having a hard time meditating because of all the associations with MJ - is an intense one, isn't it? So many people have mentioned it recently. It occurs to me that you might want to do a little self-initiation ritual where you give yourself Knowledge - whatever your version that works for you is - and ask the Great Spirit (as Native Americans call it) to be present for your initiation, and cleanse all the associations and make it really your thing. Which is always was, anyway, but those associations are real mental processes, inculcated by repeated ritual. So a new ritual might be the antidote. Happy New Year Love Disculta

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 17:51:34 (GMT) From: la-ex Email: None To: Kelly Subject: Kelly-thanks for your posts and Congratulations... Message:

Kelly-thanks for your posts, I think they are very helpful for other new people on the way out, and it is probably very helpful for you personally to write these journals... Congratulations on the birth...now there's a REAL miracle for you, and I hope you enjoy it... Doesn't it seem so strange that for years we would follow m all over the world, listen to discourses that rambled on about very little substance, and then the 5 or 10 mnutes of good stuff would be something like :Miracles are happening all the time, or something like that... As if we couldn't see and feel them ourselves without his assistance, like the birth you mentioned? Happy New Year...

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 21:57:10 (GMT) From: Kelly Email: None To: la-ex Subject: la-ex, absolutely right! Message:

Hi there, la-ex, You’re absolutely right on all counts. First, yes it is helpful for me to formulate my thoughts enough to post on this forum. I had decided before Xmas that I wouldn't do it anymore until I had written my journey' and 'come out ' with my true identity. But I now realise this is a bit of a huge job. I am going through so much, so fast, and I need time to reflect and absorb. I have never been through such a steep learning curve. I am reading and learning all the time, and this forum has opened up more for me than all my years in the cult. I am amazed at the people here, really, I mean it, it has been very exciting (and a little bit frightening) to encounter such brilliant people, and some really funny ones too. This thing about listening to M.is , he does come out with some really good stuff. I remember, only a few short months ago saying, 'there's nobody in the world talking like this, for all the teachers who are spreading their complicated messages, there is only one who is keeping it so simple and accessible to all' 'He's the peoples Master' I said. Whilst secretly bemoaning the fact that I had such a simpleton for a master, I often wished I had a more intellectual master, or at least one who was not quite so derisory about anyone who was. Like you, I just can't believe I went along with it for so long, But I also had a really good time, some very good times.... and now it's all over.... there are a lot of lovely people I am not going to see again, I do have a deep sense of loss along with all the other feelings. Shock, anger, betrayal, disgust, outrage, shame, foolishness, idiocy, hate, revenge, loss of reason, distrust, relief, clarity, gratitude! confusion, uncertainty, FREEDOM and Friendship, and last but not least, maybe for the first time in my life, SUPPORT, true support. Hard to recognise sometimes, in the rough and tumble of this forum, but something I am truly beginning to appreciate. You know what you said, la-ex, about selecting from his ramblings, the few morsels of truth. Well, who was being generous there? WE were, but you know he always said that the biggest miracle has already happened. You are alive. You can’t deny that.! And today on the first day of the new Millennium (according to the purists anyway!0 our family has a new born baby girl, we’re thrilled, it’s wonderful and thanks for your good wishes. Methinks it bodes well for this year, I for one am glad to be making a fresh start! Love Kelly Ps I’m getting that video converted

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Date: Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 01:48:31 (GMT) From: la-ex Email: None To: Kelly Subject: la-ex, absolutely right!/about that video... Message:

Kelly-thanks for responding... If you do convert that video, you can e-mail Michael Dettmers to see if he wants to dissect it...I think he does, as he was telling me that he would like to work on analyzing one of m's recent satsangs, or whatever he calls them these days...I think that one would be the best one to work on now...he could then mail it to a few other people around the US, who might want to comment...I saw it, and I think it would be an excellent one to analyze,...what was especially revealing to me was when he blamed all of the concepts on the Indian mahatmas, while he was the one giving the satsangs that contained the concepts...that was very revealing to me... About your journey..take your time, so that you can really get the best perspective possible...sounds like a lot is still bubbling up from your recent exit... Peace- la-ex

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 14:37:34 (GMT) From: hamzen Email: None To: Aussi Ji Subject: Excellent news Message:

Exactly why I force myself back here. Bored stiff with the topic, would be very happy never to have to think about him for a single more moment in my life, but service etc As for being an irreverent aussi, well you're gonna need to be next summer when us poms stuff yer, and if you beat us 5-0 don't be surprized if I take a summer vacation! I say a big up to your daughter. What is so good to hear is how few children of premies follow it up, this generation is just so much more streetwise.

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 18:22:50 (GMT) From: Aussi Ji Email: None To: hamzen Subject: Thanks mate Message:

Hi Hanzen,Are you a bloke or a sheila? cheers Aussi Ji

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 18:26:44 (GMT) From: hamzen Email: None To: Aussi Ji Subject: Depends on the mood! Message:

No, only teasing, definitely a bloke the last time I checked!

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 14:11:23 (GMT) From: Robyn Email: None To: Aussi Ji Subject: I wish to thank everyone Message:

Dear Aus, So glad you are feeling good and strong in your life beyond m! :) Congratualtions. I know I am not around enough for you to even know me or me you but this is exactly what I LOVE about this site, seeing it help premies come out of the fog! Happy New Year! Love, Robyn

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 18:27:37 (GMT) From: Aussi Ji Email: None To: Robyn Subject: I wish to thank everyone Message:

G,Day Robyn,Thank you kindly you sound like a real beaut sheila.I'll be thinking of you when I throw another shrimp on the barby.LOL Aussi Ji.

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 06:29:36 (GMT) From: NEWS Email: None To: Aussi Ji Subject: ONE MORE IS OUT!! :) Message:

I am so happy for you.

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 01:44:35 (GMT) From: ulf Email: None To: Everyone Subject: moving on Message:

happy new year to all of you here i have just spent my best new year in many years. Not trying to remember holy name this have for many years, been a thing i allways do, it have just been a thing i did. such a nice thing to let it go , and just be a ordinary human being having new years evening with some friends. And feeling that you rule your own life. Right now i think that we really can get over all the brainwash, mayby it is near. mayby for some of you this look strange but , anyway it is feeling so nice. SO happy new year to all of you best Ulf (`and fuck M )

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 14:13:53 (GMT) From: Robyn Email: None To: ulf Subject: moving on Message:

Dear ulf, Wow! I just posted congratulations to Aussie Ji and now I see your post! This is great and as I said, for me, this is the best part of this site, seeing it directly helping people get out and have the support they need to make the change. Have a great year away from m. Love, Robyn

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 08:08:10 (GMT) From: sam Email: . To: ulf Subject: great to not feel guilty on new years day hey? nt Message:

for a change

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 06:07:03 (GMT) From: Sir Dave Email: None To: ulf Subject: moving on Message:

A happy new year to you, Ulf. Glad to see you've rejoined the human race of ordinary remarkable people. Keep us up-to-date with how you're doing, won't you. .. Dave

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Date: Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 18:18:44 (GMT) From: Marianne Email: MarianneDB@aol.com To: Everyone Subject: Back to Ireland Message:

Happy New Year's Wishes to everyone. Tomorrow I'm going back to Ireland to live until late April. You can still reach me at my regular email address, and I'll be checking in with the forum regularly. I'm going to attend as many satellite and live events across Europe as I possibly can while I am there, as part of my own fact-finding investigation. I am sure everything I learn will become useful in the rather immediate future. Watch this space for updates! I'm looking forward to meeting Tim G and Kelly, and also seeing the Brits again, as well as JM and Anth. Many thanks for all of your contributions to this site. A peaceful, happy, healthy and prosperous New Year to all. To EV and M, here's to an end to donations and some hopes for high profile, international scrutiny of all of your activities. Marianne

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Date: Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 01:01:14 (GMT) From: Maurice Email: None To: Marianne Subject: Back to Ireland Message:

hi Marianne , I 'm just back from a great trip Stateside, and would love to catch up with you . I live in County Cork and will be around with Tim G to have some sweet talk about the One who reveals more than just the Knolly and apparently is about to be revealed Himself to the world in the Guinness Book of Records as the person who can in complete honesty lie to thousands of people at the same time on his Tannoy system and make loads of dosh for watches and boats while keeping a straight face more times than anyone else on record, now can you believe that , Marianne, see you soon Maurice.

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 22:10:02 (GMT) From: Kelly Email: None To: Marianne Subject: Welcome to Ireland Message:

Hi Marianne and top o' the mornin' to you! I guess by the time you read this you will have arrived, I look forward to talking to you soon. Happy New Year love Kelly

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 02:33:02 (GMT) From: Susan Email: None To: Marianne Subject: Have a wonderful journey Message:

and loads of fun while you are there! Susan :)

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 01:29:17 (GMT) From: such Email: None To: Marianne Subject: Would you be going by County Cork, perhaps? (nt Message:

nt

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 00:40:15 (GMT) From: Katie Email: None To: Marianne Subject: Back to Ireland Message:

Happy New Year, Marianne, and have a great time in Ireland! (I wish I could think of some wise Irish saying for you, but all I could come up with was 'Live Long and Prosper', which - obviously - ain't Irish.) Take care of yourself - Love, Katie

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Date: Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 22:45:17 (GMT) From: Bazza Email: None To: Marianne Subject: Back to Ireland Message:

Happy New Year Marianne Safe journey and have a wonderful time across the pond. I enjoyed all our email & telephone chats and hope the information I gave you proves useful sometime. cheers Barry

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Date: Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 22:14:01 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: Marianne Subject: Don't forget the rubber boots and electric socks Message:

no place for an nt

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Date: Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 21:43:59 (GMT) From: Roger eDrek Email: drek@oz.net To: Marianne Subject: Hey! What about my death penalty case? Message:

Marianne, What about my death penalty case? You know they're going to fry me, don't ya? You know, the case where I was driving my car and this drugged-out hippie lurches off the sidewalk and I knocked him into his next lifetime and I let my driver Kato take the rap, but Kato sold me out after the tabloids got to him? So what if I was nine sheets to the wind and having an argument with my girlfriend, Monica? Come on, doesn't the Lord of the Cheap Sleazy Internet Anti-Guru Webpages get a break? If only...

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Date: Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 22:51:12 (GMT) From: Bazza Email: None To: Roger eDrek Subject: Funny you should mention the driving thing again Message:

Check out this quote from m. on the current Elan Vital Newsletter 'If all I have to do is pay attention, that's a very small thing to ask. If all I have to do is not look away from the road, that is a very small thing to ask—that's not a big sacrifice. That is not too much.' Gee, I wonder what inspired THAT little piece of wisdom??

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Date: Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 21:34:48 (GMT) From: Gregg Email: None To: Marianne Subject: Hope it's even better this time around! Message:

And I hope the ethereal greats of Irish literature inspire you in your own literary endeavors. Have a great time, and may the riches of Reason and Spirit that are yours benefit others. Happy New Year. Keep me posted! Love, G

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Date: Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 19:49:00 (GMT) From: Disculta Email: None To: Marianne Subject: Back to Ireland Message:

Hi, that sounds exciting. Maybe you should ask some really challenging questions. Sorry I haven't gotten back to you - you're in a long list of unanswered calls - still overwhelmed from moving. The forum somehow is restful, whereas answering my calls seems too much. Have a great time in ireland and Happy New Millennium Love Disculta

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Date: Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 18:44:54 (GMT) From: Cynthia Email: None To: Marianne Subject: Back to Ireland--Hi Marianne!! Message:

Happy New Year!! So, you're going to some events, eh??? Got your smart card? Going as an aspirant? Wigs ready? Have fun, I hope your change of scenery will inspire you in the first months of the REAL millennium::)), and may you have the power to sit in your seat when you really want to shout and swear at the big M! I'll be waiting for your updates, and I know you'll have lots of fun on the other side of the pond. Currently, in Vermont, it's still snowing lightly after a 12'' dumper (fresh powder) and the skiers are in 7th heaven. Me? I'm home sipping wine (I know it's early for the east coast, but it's New Year's Eve-day). Hubby's watching the Godfather marathon, having just switched from the ''Honeymooners marathon.' He's just come off a month long work/travel stretch that has exhausted him--he's happy. I just cleaned off my car and glad I did 'cuz it's covered again. But at least the temperatures have risen to a balmy 27 deg. F.; last week it didn't get above 10. Love, Cynthia, lover of snow and northern lights and New Years

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Date: Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 21:16:43 (GMT) From: Tim G Email: polka.com To: All Subject: Back to Ireland--Hi Marianne!! Message:

Oh Great Ones in the land of the free..We're on the dawn of the unravelling of the 'smug one's' empire. Let us dance a merry round in the year 01 and watch the ship of expensive devotion founder on the sharp rocks of ex-premie.org and it's ruthless wisdom. Bullshit aside it's been great meeting you all on the Boundless Tannoy. Love to you all Tim P.S. Looking forward to meeting you Marianne and maybe taking in a few of those cult gatherings, notebook in hand. P.P.S. I have NOTHING against the premies....some of them are my........

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Date: Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 17:29:49 (GMT) From: Bongo Email: None To: Everyone Subject: LOAF: Answers to your Questions Message:

A)The idea is to groom the badgers, not to shag them. B)The purpose of other people is to offer me the exquisite experience of feeling superior to them. C)No. But get this! I did see him personally shoot a giraffe up the arse with a gold-plated shotgun. He said it was because he didn't like the way it looked at him. Love and seasons Greetings,Bongo. Ps. Isn't there any more recent info about the hermetically sealed Mr Rawat on the inter-web than this? I mean mid -eighties? It's 'kin 'istory.

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Date: Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 17:18:12 (GMT) From: Steve Quint Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com To: Everyone Subject: New Year's Wishes Message:

For all the exes sincerely seeking truth and justice, all the best in the new millenium and may your wishes be fulfilled. For myself, much fun. For maharaji and his minions, all the worst available to a human being or whatever they are. I've talked about it here already, but it's bothering me once more that m never responded to any of my letters, even the ones talking about dire psychic pain and nearly dying from psychotic experiences related to knowledge. He goes all out to acquire and use the latest technologies in aviation, etc. and won't even use the technology of the telephone or post office to respond to sincere, supportive, very needy followers. As my very first thread said in its title in early October of this year 'Why Hasn't The Plug Been Pulled Yet?' Steve

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 00:21:45 (GMT) From: Katie Email: None To: Steve Quint Subject: New Year's Wishes Message:

A very happy New Year to you, too, Steve. In regard to Maharaji not answering your letters, I will borrow a phrase from Helen's husband and say that you are trying to get milk from the hardware store. Sometimes it really hurts when our expectations of someone's compassion or love are unrealistic, but I believe it's better in the end to face the truth. Anyway, it's NOT you - it's him. Take care, Katie

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 18:03:18 (GMT) From: Oliver Email: None To: Katie Subject: New Year's Wishes Message:

Happy everything to you Katie and to Steve who precedes you together with Sir Dave who I have pushed in on. All three of you are extraudinary people who it has been my privilige to meet, albeit within cyberspace. I am in the process of writing my journey which I was going to use to enter Recent- ex's, but as some of you know, I been there and done that. May your favoutite spiritual guide fill your heart's with special joy and peace and may all your bets be on very fast horses.(For Sir Dave). Oliver Rawat still sucks.

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Date: Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 18:36:13 (GMT) From: Sir Dave Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com To: Steve Quint Subject: New Year's Wishes Message:

The plug isn't being pulled but the battery is running out. It's a slow process which started in 1983 and has leapt forward by leaps and bounds since it came to the internet in 1997. I will put your post on my site because it demonstrates the unfeeling emptiness of Maharaji's cult. Did you write a more detailed post about your lack of response from Maharaji earlier? If so, I should find it in the archives and I will put that on my site. Or maybe you could repost it now. All the best and while life is no bed of roses, people can support each other knowing and understanding that. .. Dave

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Date: Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 17:54:09 (GMT) From: Scott T. Email: None To: Steve Quint Subject: Happy New Millennium to the Aussies Message:

The rest of us will have to wait a few more hours to enter the third millennium. What's it like? Can you see Jesus in the clouds, or is he waiting 'til the polls close? --Scott

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 09:57:49 (GMT) From: The Australian Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: Happy New Millennium to the Aussies Message:

He has revealed himself. He is a horrible little conservative anal retentitive dwarf called John Howard. He has returned to direct us all back to the wonderful utopia of the sixties in the suburbs. Last year he introduced to the first step on this path- the GST-God's Sixties Theme!(We know him to be divine because he need not say SORRY to ANYONE) Praise the Dwarf. Praise his eyebrows!

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Date: Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 00:54:03 (GMT) From: Olivetti Email: None To: The Australian Subject: Our boy scout Prime Minister. Message:

Despite his obvious inadequacies, he is alledged to be a practicing Christian. He is also my local member and I have often thought of the use, or otherwise, of writing to him and giving him a run down on the Lard and his detrimental effect on my mental elf. Just a thought. Any others? Oliver. Ps. He has no interest in taking us back to the 60's, he's aiming for the 50's

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