Forum V: Archive
Compiled: Tues, Jan 09, 2001 at 22:39:49 (GMT)
From: Dec 20, 2000 To: Jan 09, 2001 Page: 5 Of: 5


Salam -:- Solve your problems -:- Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 21:07:06 (GMT)
__ SB -:- Me too???? -:- Wed, Jan 03, 2001 at 16:24:54 (GMT)
__ janet -:- if i wrote to you, reply to me, only, period.. -:- Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 08:16:53 (GMT)
__ __ mind your manners -:- if i wrote to you, reply to me, only, period.. -:- Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 20:38:49 (GMT)
__ __ Oliver -:- Re: If i wrote to you, reply to me, only, period.. -:- Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 14:12:16 (GMT)
__ __ Salam -:- check your attitude Miss. -:- Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 12:01:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ Salam -:- and why are you calling others idiots? -:- Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 12:08:47 (GMT)
__ Robyn -:- Solve your problems -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 06:51:43 (GMT)
__ __ Salam -:- Solve your problems -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 10:18:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ Robyn -:- Solve your problems -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 14:23:25 (GMT)
__ Salam -:- FA help me -:- Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 21:51:28 (GMT)
__ __ Forum Elves -:- to Salam -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 00:03:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ Oliver -:- Re: to Salam -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 11:06:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Salam -:- Am only a humble soul -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 13:29:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Oliver -:- Well I'm only a poor simple pensioner. nt -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 16:36:20 (GMT)
__ Selene -:- just one thing Salam -:- Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 21:10:11 (GMT)
__ __ Salam -:- My reaction is simple, I do not like spam mail -:- Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 21:27:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ SB -:- What is going on? -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 02:45:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Salam -:- What is going on? -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 04:12:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ SB -:- What is going on? Crabby too -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 06:22:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Oliver -:- Re: What is going on? Crabby too -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 14:07:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- Didn't get it yet -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 20:41:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- Happy New year SB -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 06:26:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- Happy New year Selene -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 06:34:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Oliver -:- Happy New year SB -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 12:32:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- Where is acopulco -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 10:24:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ Selene -:- okaaay just wanted you to know -:- Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 21:32:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Oliver -:- Discuss it at Wanton Tales. (nt) -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 13:53:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Salam -:- Sheesh -:- Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 21:44:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Oh ye of little faith.... -:- Re: Sheesh -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 13:58:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- little cat rubbing himself on my foot..nt -:- Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 02:46:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ salam -:- make that my leg..nt -:- Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 02:48:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- I thought it was a laff -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 02:57:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- a laff? You deranged pom. -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 04:22:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- uh sorry I forgot all the OT OT WOT and TWOT -:- Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 21:50:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- FA ban Selene, she is stealing my thread -:- Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 22:06:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- FA ban Selene, she is stealing my thread -:- Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 22:08:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ My body is revolting -:- Re: FA ban Selene, she is stealing my thread -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 14:16:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- huh? -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 16:22:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- Cat -:- Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 02:54:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Mystery Cat -:- Cat -:- Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 04:51:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Oliver -:- huh? -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 16:40:50 (GMT)

shp -:- Cheers -:- Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 15:28:53 (GMT)
__ shp -:- Cheers / edit #1 / respects to the TV show -:- Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 15:51:56 (GMT)

Salam -:- Happy New Year Everyone -:- Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 14:04:47 (GMT)
__ Helen -:- Happy New Year Everyone -:- Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 18:04:58 (GMT)
__ Selene -:- Happy New Year adn Linux rules -:- Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 23:57:43 (GMT)
__ Katie -:- Happy New Year Everyone, and... (sorta OT) -:- Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 16:50:39 (GMT)
__ __ Selene -:- Happy New Year Everyone, and... (sorta OT) -:- Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 21:28:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ Katie -:- Happy New Year Everyone, and... (sorta OT) -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 00:12:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Selene -:- funny thing about xmas cards -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 00:43:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- funny thing about xmas cards -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 00:58:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- yeah she is a serious bs artist -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 01:02:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- 'a family tradition'... -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 03:26:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- yeah but it's hard to shine em on sometimes -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 03:54:40 (GMT)
__ __ Oliver -:- Happy New Year Everyone, and... (sorta OT) -:- Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 18:22:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ Katie -:- Say what, Oliver? -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 00:10:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Oliver -:- Re: Say what, Oliver? -:- Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 20:51:29 (GMT)
__ Oliver -:- Happy New Year Everyone nt. -:- Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 16:34:44 (GMT)
__ __ Tim G -:- Happy New Year Everyone -:- Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 21:21:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ Robyn -:- Happy New Year Everyone -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 15:12:11 (GMT)

Joe -:- Election Reprise (OT) -:- Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 00:08:15 (GMT)
__ Katie -:- Election Reprise (OT) -:- Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 16:01:46 (GMT)
__ Rick -:- Election Reprise (OT) -:- Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 15:59:13 (GMT)
__ Monmot -:- It's President-Select, Not Elect (NT and OT) -:- Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 06:20:26 (GMT)
__ Jerry -:- Election Reprise (OT) -:- Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 01:48:32 (GMT)
__ __ Joe -:- Huh? -:- Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 06:31:13 (GMT)
__ __ Scott T. -:- Election Reprise (OT) -:- Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 04:43:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jerry -:- To Joe and Scott -:- Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 14:32:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Katie -:- To Joe and Scott -:- Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 16:19:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Scott T. -:- On Bush concessions -:- Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 19:56:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- Appointments and Democrats -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 22:04:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ Owl -:- Election count methodology was already stated by, -:- Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 08:21:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Scott T. -:- Election count methodology. -:- Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 20:16:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Owl -:- Election count methodology. -:- Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 21:22:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Scott T. -:- Election count methodology. -:- Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 18:05:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Owl -:- Election count methodology. -:- Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 21:23:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Scott T. -:- Election count methodology. -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 02:15:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Owl -:- Election count methodology. -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 13:18:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Scott T. -:- Election count methodology. -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 23:50:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Katie -:- Quite ironic, isn't it -:- Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 16:12:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Owl -:- As we concur, ............'quite ironic, isn't it' -:- Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 20:32:43 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- Warner's got a point -:- Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 01:47:49 (GMT)
__ __ Joe -:- You missed the point, I think -:- Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 06:17:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- Come on! -:- Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 20:57:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Joe -:- No, you Come on! -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 21:44:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- No, you Come on! -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 23:14:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Scott T. -:- No, you Come on! -:- Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 01:40:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- Jim, one day we will endure OT on the Queen -:- Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 21:22:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Jim, one day we will endure OT on the Queen -:- Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 21:56:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- Jim, let's not forget your OT on Princess Di -:- Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 20:03:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Hey, that's different! -:- Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 21:42:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Owl -:- Jim, one day we will endure OT on the Queen -:- Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 21:45:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- The law of the land trumps the will of the people -:- Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 20:54:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Scott T. -:- The lay of the land trumps the will of the people -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 02:44:35 (GMT)
__ __ Scott T. -:- And Feinstein has one too -:- Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 05:10:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- And Feinstein has one too -:- Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 20:28:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Scott T. -:- And Feinstein has one too -:- Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 18:50:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- No way, Scott -:- Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 20:42:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Scott T. -:- Way, Dude. -:- Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 02:00:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ Joe -:- Good points, Scott -:- Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 06:21:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Scott T. -:- Thanks, Joe -:- Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 19:32:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Katie -:- Good points, Scott - I agree -:- Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 16:08:14 (GMT)
__ __ Jerry -:- Warner's got a point -:- Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 02:02:38 (GMT)
__ Owl -:- Election decided by Kangaroo Supreme Court ....... -:- Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 01:20:05 (GMT)
__ __ Aussi Ji -:- Hey !careful kangaroo is an aussi word..... -:- Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 02:31:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ Owl -:- 'careful kangaroo is an aussi word.......', {LOL} -:- Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 02:43:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Aussi Ji -:- 'careful kangaroo is an aussi word.......', {LOL} -:- Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 02:47:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Owl -:- 'careful kangaroo is an aussi word.......', {LOL} -:- Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 03:22:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Aussi Ji -:- No wucken furries mate -:- Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 07:37:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Owl -:- No wucken furries mate -:- Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 08:25:56 (GMT)
__ __ Oliver -:- Speaking of Kangaroo Supreme Courts ....... -:- Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 01:33:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ Aussi Ji -:- Speaking of Kangaroo Supreme Courts ....... -:- Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 02:42:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Oliver -:- Blah, blah, blah. (NT) -:- Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 06:25:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ Owl -:- Speaking of ?????????............................. -:- Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 02:04:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Oliver -:- Speaking of ?? ? Sorry, wrong file. :)) -:- Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 02:49:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Owl -:- Speaking of ?? ? Sorry, wrong file. :)), {?WHAT??} -:- Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 03:09:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Scott T. -:- Kangaroospeak -:- Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 05:20:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Owl -:- Kangaroospeak -:- Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 07:00:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Aussi Ji -:- Kangaroos -:- Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 07:48:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Owl -:- Kangaroos -:- Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 08:57:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Aussi Ji -:- Kangaroos -:- Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 23:12:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Scott T. -:- Kangaroos -:- Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 19:40:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Owl -:- Kangaroos -:- Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 21:38:54 (GMT)

The Litmus Test (OT) -:- BBC Radio...... as I tape. -:- Fri, Dec 29, 2000 at 17:20:02 (GMT)
__ Oliver -:- I was listening to 'Just a minute'....(OT), -:- Fri, Dec 29, 2000 at 18:35:47 (GMT)
__ __ Des Perado. -:- I was listening to 'Just a minute'....(OT), -:- Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 01:42:47 (GMT)

Oliver -:- End of the Universe. (OT) -:- Wed, Dec 27, 2000 at 19:08:04 (GMT)
__ shp -:- The Restaurant at the End of the Universe closed.. -:- Wed, Dec 27, 2000 at 23:37:26 (GMT)
__ __ Oliver -:- But the restuarant in the middle of nowhere..... -:- Thurs, Dec 28, 2000 at 05:16:20 (GMT)
__ Scott T. -:- End of the Universe. (OT) -:- Wed, Dec 27, 2000 at 20:45:48 (GMT)
__ Stonor -:- End of the Universe. (OT) -:- Wed, Dec 27, 2000 at 19:38:43 (GMT)
__ __ Stonor -:- PS - a link (OT) -:- Wed, Dec 27, 2000 at 19:48:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ Oliver -:- Thanks yaw'll........[(OT)-nt] -:- Wed, Dec 27, 2000 at 21:54:17 (GMT)

bill -:- Helen/Gerry-ot fiberm... -:- Wed, Dec 27, 2000 at 18:12:42 (GMT)
__ Helen -:- Helen/Gerry-ot fiberm... -:- Wed, Dec 27, 2000 at 19:49:31 (GMT)
__ __ janet of venice -:- a new water to try-i did (OT) fibro -:- Thurs, Dec 28, 2000 at 10:07:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ Helen -:- thanks, I will go there (website) now! (nt) -:- Thurs, Dec 28, 2000 at 23:03:55 (GMT)

Owl -:- If an open letter does get placed in Malibu or ??? -:- Wed, Dec 27, 2000 at 10:50:08 (GMT)
__ Jethro -:- Actually it was probably signed -:- Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 10:41:21 (GMT)
__ __ Owl -:- Actually it was probably signed....{See next Post} -:- Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 22:19:36 (GMT)
__ In the Know -:- If an open letter does get placed in Malibu or ??? -:- Wed, Dec 27, 2000 at 11:10:57 (GMT)
__ __ Owl -:- If an open letter; TYPO Correction ..SANT (Hindi) -:- Wed, Dec 27, 2000 at 12:13:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ Bazza -:- So go for it 'Owl' -:- Wed, Dec 27, 2000 at 14:52:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Owl -:- So go for it 'Owl' -:- Thurs, Dec 28, 2000 at 03:02:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Bazza -:- This isn't a game for me -:- Thurs, Dec 28, 2000 at 06:05:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jethro -:- Personal post to Bazza -:- Thurs, Dec 28, 2000 at 11:43:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Bazza -:- Personal post to Bazza -:- Thurs, Dec 28, 2000 at 18:38:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jethro -:- Personal post to Bazza -:- Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 06:09:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Sally Fisher as in Sally Fisher-Cainer? -:- Thurs, Dec 28, 2000 at 18:47:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Bazza -:- Sally Fisher as in Sally Fisher-Cainer?Yup -:- Thurs, Dec 28, 2000 at 19:25:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Owl -:- This isn't the way I want things for me, you say? -:- Thurs, Dec 28, 2000 at 07:34:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Bazza -:- Jeez I'm talking to a friggin Owl !! -:- Thurs, Dec 28, 2000 at 18:49:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Owl -:- You say, 'Jeez I'm talking to a friggin Owl !!' -:- Fri, Dec 29, 2000 at 04:25:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Disculta -:- Hey Bazza old buddy... -:- Fri, Dec 29, 2000 at 01:55:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jethro -:- Why don't you just explain to Bazza -:- Thurs, Dec 28, 2000 at 11:47:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Owl -:- Why don't you just explain to Bazza, why you use a -:- Fri, Dec 29, 2000 at 04:06:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jethro -:- Hey OWL, are you a clerk in the -:- Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 10:29:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Owl -:- You say, 'Hey OWL, are you a clerk in the......... -:- Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 22:59:00 (GMT)

Nigel -:- temporary email change (ot) -:- Tues, Dec 26, 2000 at 19:53:59 (GMT)
__ Robyn -:- temporary email change (ot) -:- Wed, Dec 27, 2000 at 05:16:33 (GMT)
__ __ Nigel -:- Bondi? -I've seen better surf on the Isle of Wight -:- Wed, Dec 27, 2000 at 09:03:09 (GMT)
__ ham -:- And hopefully winding up the aussies -:- Tues, Dec 26, 2000 at 20:48:04 (GMT)
__ __ Nigel -:- And hopefully winding up the aussies -:- Wed, Dec 27, 2000 at 08:50:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ ham -:- I'm not speaking to you, it was -3 here -:- Wed, Dec 27, 2000 at 16:15:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Nigel -:- I'm not speaking to you, it was -3 here -:- Thurs, Dec 28, 2000 at 18:53:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ ham -:- Sampling gm, yessirree -:- Thurs, Dec 28, 2000 at 19:31:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- Sampling gm, yessirree -:- Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 01:35:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Robyn -:- I'm not speaking to you, it was -3 here -:- Wed, Dec 27, 2000 at 20:07:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ ham -:- Yeah but I am a wussy whingeing pom -:- Thurs, Dec 28, 2000 at 14:29:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Steve Waugh -:- Yeah ,14+(nt) -:- Thurs, Dec 28, 2000 at 22:31:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Nasser Hussain won't -:- say it, 14+ IS impressive, but w5 d4 l1 ain't -:- Fri, Dec 29, 2000 at 01:16:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Richie Benaud -:- Nasser wont last 3 balls. And he'll need 3 balls! -:- Fri, Dec 29, 2000 at 07:01:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Darren Gough -:- If he's fully back I take back everything, -:- Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 03:27:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Bay13 -:- O n Monday in Oz it will be OI ! OI ! OI! -:- Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 13:47:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Lesley -:- Huh, Stevie is in better form than ever -:- Thurs, Dec 28, 2000 at 20:57:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ New-Age Redneck -:- Nigel, a raver?????? -:- Wed, Dec 27, 2000 at 17:45:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- Not raving, but drowning... -:- Thurs, Dec 28, 2000 at 19:00:04 (GMT)

Oliver -:- F.A., Re. Recent Ex-Premies. -:- Mon, Dec 25, 2000 at 19:54:45 (GMT)
__ Recent Exes Info -:- F.A., Re. Recent Ex-Premies. -:- Tues, Dec 26, 2000 at 00:34:43 (GMT)
__ __ Oliver. -:- I am really fucked. -:- Wed, Dec 27, 2000 at 16:08:51 (GMT)

Austin, TX -:- Bush Sues Santa (ot) -:- Sun, Dec 24, 2000 at 00:26:25 (GMT)
__ G -:- Bush gets tough on congressmen -:- Wed, Dec 27, 2000 at 01:35:15 (GMT)
__ __ Scott T. -:- Bush gets tough on congressmen -:- Wed, Dec 27, 2000 at 16:16:55 (GMT)
__ Owl -:- Bush Sues Santa (ot)/ (Wonderful) -:- Sun, Dec 24, 2000 at 07:25:40 (GMT)
__ Salam -:- Bush Sues Santa (ot) -:- Sun, Dec 24, 2000 at 00:55:08 (GMT)
__ __ Salam -:- Correction. It's every 3.7 sec....nt -:- Sun, Dec 24, 2000 at 10:27:28 (GMT)

Zhayy Shwaa -:- Premie Post On DEJANEWS -:- Sun, Dec 24, 2000 at 00:07:29 (GMT)
__ zhayy shwaa -:- HEYYYY-WHO PUT THIS UP HERE? THIS IS MINE! -:- Sun, Dec 24, 2000 at 01:54:16 (GMT)
__ __ Salam -:- Shit happens -:- Sun, Dec 24, 2000 at 06:48:00 (GMT)
__ Sir Dave -:- Premie Post On DEJANEWS -:- Sun, Dec 24, 2000 at 00:47:00 (GMT)

Graciousness -:- That's it.. M's a fraud.Allow no room for doubt -:- Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 05:20:44 (GMT)
__ Salam -:- FA: What's this crap?........NT -:- Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 11:18:47 (GMT)
__ me -:- That's it.. M's a fraud.Allow no room for doubt -:- Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 08:41:32 (GMT)
__ Sympathizer -:- Hey I got one for ya... -:- Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 06:30:55 (GMT)
__ __ Sympathizer -:- Peek-a-boo -:- Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 07:16:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ janet -:- nothing to snicker at here-i looked at a link -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 11:54:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ bazza -:- its OK -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 23:06:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ Sympathizier -:- Gotcha -:- Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 07:38:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Graciousness -:- Gotcha -:- Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 08:11:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Bazza -:- Dangerous game you're playing -:- Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 14:38:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Gotcha -:- Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 07:56:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Bazza -:- Aw shucks!! -:- Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 14:32:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- My measurements, my salary, and now this!!! (nt) -:- Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 06:23:04 (GMT)
__ someone -:- FAs: Above post should be deleted, IMO (nt) -:- Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 05:43:54 (GMT)
__ __ someone else -:- This is being taken seriously and dealt with NT -:- Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 15:57:14 (GMT)


Date: Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 21:07:06 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Solve your problems
Message:
Personally am getting sick of this e-mail thing that is going around, I do not enjoy it and if I bloody want a group discussion I will bloody ask for it, so bugger off all of you. Also if I want to say something, I will come here and say it. If this thing keeps coming back to me, I am bloody blocking it, CAPICE. That is everyone on the frigging list.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 03, 2001 at 16:24:54 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Me too????
Message:
UUAAAA....

:_(

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Date: Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 08:16:53 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Salam and all
Subject: if i wrote to you, reply to me, only, period..
Message:
this whole stupid mess didnt have to happen. the rule is simple. itzs like the phone. answer the person who wrote to you. not to the whole list they sent it to.

i cant believe my one lousy letter gave rise to this mess. i thought it was universally known that you are only to email people who know you, not to whole headers of strangers.

this one isnt my fault. what i did is accepted. its the idiots who didnt stop to think, who replied to the entire header without knowing them, that started this mess.
the solution is to apologize and come out of this wiser and not repeat the mistake.

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Date: Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 20:38:49 (GMT)
From: mind your manners
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: if i wrote to you, reply to me, only, period..
Message:
Anyone who uses web tv shouldn't accuse others of being
stupid about email or any other computing.
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Date: Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 14:12:16 (GMT)
From: Oliver
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Re: If i wrote to you, reply to me, only, period..
Message:
On this occassion you don't know your arse from a hole in the ground.

So, fuck off.

Oliver the banned.

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Date: Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 12:01:43 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: check your attitude Miss.
Message:
Am not the one that's flogging everyone with my e-mails. Big bloody period. And please take me offyour list. Ta ta.

The crab is really crabby.

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Date: Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 12:08:47 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: and why are you calling others idiots?
Message:
Open your ears, a list that went to everyone is like junk mail in the letter box, you got it, so you can reply to it. first you send a message to everyone, and when you are told off, you turn around and say it is private.

Well I just do not see it you're way, neither did others. so next time before you spam everyone, ask first if it is ok to start a list, because, read my lips, I do not want to be on anyones list, not your's not others, understand. Period period period period.

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 06:51:43 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Solve your problems
Message:
Dear Salam,
I am on that list but don't know why, am never addressed personally. I find it all very confusing and I feel bad because something isn't right, I think, but I just wanted to say to you not to block me from your email just because I am on that list. I am receiving and not responding at all, seems like it is none of my business.
Happy New Year! :)
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 10:18:34 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Solve your problems
Message:
That's what pisses me off about this list. Like someone talking while being in a glass jar. As for you me dear, am getting you a direct link for me e-mail me dear, so don't you worry your lil head about it, you sun dog lover.

Is it still cold in that place, philadelphia or whatever it is. Nice and cool here,

you make sure you have some fun in that old country town you live in.

p.s. just found out that next door neighbor has 3 goats, meee, maaa and ma'ma'.

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 14:23:25 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Solve your problems
Message:
Dear Salam,
Thanks honey. :) It was a balmy 10F for New Years! :( I was going to go out with friends but couldn't get through as the snow had blown over the road. There were may places were the snow had drifted but when I hit the spot were the road was totally coverd by 2 feet of snow I turned around! We had people over here too so I still had a good time. Hope you did also.
I am about 5 hours North of Philidelphia and that is how far you have to drive to get to any big city here, New York City or Pittsburg. This area is a whole region of rural country side dotted with 2 or 3 medium sized cities.
So your neighbors have goats! :) Next thing you'll be drinking goats milk in your coffee! :)
Oh, sundog has nothing to due with dogs, really. It is a thing that happens when the sun is high in the sky and there are ice crystals there also. The sun reflects on those ice crystals and it appears there are 2 suns, one being a mirror image. It is odd but that work has many layers of meaning to me, connections with people and events as well as my love of the sun, sun worshiper that I am :), and dogs. I had never even thought of that angle of it.
Happy New Year dear and don't clean up that mess before you get a photo, ya hear? :)
You've got a friend in Pennsylvania! That use to be the state motto, damn shame they changed it. :)
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 21:51:28 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: FA help me
Message:
Now I am getting a list about Oliver being banned.

If anyone knows why he is banned please tell him.

I want to live in peace

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 00:03:25 (GMT)
From: Forum Elves
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: to Salam
Message:
As far as we can tell, Salam, Oliver is not blocked.
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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 11:06:08 (GMT)
From: Oliver
Email: whinavi@bigpond.com
To: Forum Elves
Subject: Re: to Salam
Message:
Then can you tell me why I was constantly asked for a password when trying to post?

You could also tell me why my e-mail regarding same was ignored.

How much can a koala bear?

Anyone been to Rob's site lately.

Oliver.
Ps. Where the fuck is he anyway?

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 13:29:13 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Oliver
Subject: Am only a humble soul
Message:
And you ask me things I do not control. Well you are in. Dono where Rob is.
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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 16:36:20 (GMT)
From: Oliver
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Well I'm only a poor simple pensioner. nt
Message:
Nt
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Date: Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 21:10:11 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: just one thing Salam
Message:
Just so you know *I* am only a recepient of these as well, I am NOT the one sending them.
But I do understand your reaction. I just delete them as soon as I see the headers, only once in a while scanning for content.
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Date: Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 21:27:30 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: My reaction is simple, I do not like spam mail
Message:
and I am getting it. Also there is a fight going on, and simply I DO NOT GIVE A F&%K about it. Am fumming because this has been going on for a while and as I said, if I want to say something to everyone I use this message board. If I want to speak in private to someone I will ask.

So again whoever it is, get your act together and don't e-mail me.

I am pissed off because I just waken up and saw some shit going around that I did not create. Solve it yourself.

Hello Selene, if you going out for a drink, have one for me, look like I need it. Say hello and have fun

Salam

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 02:45:39 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: What is going on?
Message:
I just enter the forum. What is going on Salam?

S

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 04:12:45 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: salam_au@iprimus.com.au
To: SB
Subject: What is going on?
Message:
Hello SB, I went back to bed after talking to Selene. But am talking about few e-mail list that have been bouncing back and forth, that I have or had no intention of contributing to or recieving. That is pissing me off and it looks that the writer(s) are living on cloud nine, BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT LISTENING.

Above from that I meat some Shakti chicks that speak Spainsh, so I sat down and practiced my old rusty espanol, which I found out that i can still remember. How are you? Sorry I did not write but, ah umm well you know me, I lost you're e-mail again and did not want to sound like a bum asking for it. Also I have a list of 25 people on my e-mail that I do not know where they came from. Write to me, my mail is up. Have you been a good girl lately?

Salam crabbier than a crab

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 06:22:42 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: What is going on? Crabby too
Message:
Is 1 a.m., I am heading with my friend Eptisam to the Casino. Just woke up from a nap, crabby, until I read your message. LOL

I don't get too much what you are refering to about an e-mail list. I was curious. I thought you didn't even want my mail...hahahha Being myself a one year old veteran at this place, believe me, like any other, I know it has strange ego trips and human tricks alright, but, hey, who really cares? Lets celebrate humanness. BAD PEOPLE SUCK!!

SB, the today openminded adventurer.

HAPPY 2001!

I'll have a drink thinking of you.

You want to come to Acapulco with Selene and me? I'm robbing a bank soon....Just joking. SHE'LL PROBABLY KILL ME. We are going though.

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 14:07:57 (GMT)
From: Oliver
Email: whinavi@bigpond.com
To: SB
Subject: Re: What is going on? Crabby too
Message:
He wnts to back a winner, too many years of backing lardie has hi with the shits,
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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 20:41:12 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Oliver
Subject: Didn't get it yet
Message:
I care about Salam becasue we have exchanged e-mail and got to know each other a little. I wanted to know why he was so upset. I still don't get it. Because i only can get online for few minutes daily I don't know details explained in other threads/posts.

SB, who saw much BS around here. I don't trust some/the FAs here.That is why I 'left' this forum. I know Rawat has to be stopped. :)

Happy New Year Oliver!

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 06:26:36 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: Happy New year SB
Message:
We are waiting to blow off our fireworks and drink a toast.
I actually thought of going to the casino myself today but didn't wanna push it, I haven't gone for ages and last time I did I won $200 and I know they will get it back if I go.
so rob that bank girl and let's go to Acapulco, (even though I just saw Proof of Life and am spooked)
love you and happy new year!
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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 06:34:34 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Happy New year Selene
Message:
I haven't been there since I went to Vegas myself. I promised my friend to go and have nothing better to do SO i HAVE TO GO NOW.
Life is spooky alright around here... but there are always possibilities. :0

Acapulco sounds fine. Well, the places I know anyway.

Have all the fun possible.

HAPPY 2001!!lOVE,

SB

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 12:32:21 (GMT)
From: Oliver
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: Happy New year SB
Message:
I'm a 50 year-old Australian male with a 20 year history of bipolar disorder, currently under a second six month Community Treatment Order which is due to expire in February, 2001.

It is rumored that an application will be made for a further CTO prior to the present one expiring and I am looking into ways to avoid this, if possible. Between my periods of manic episodes I am as 'normal' as the next man and it is my one ambition to be able to live without medication or supervision by the local mental health team some time before I die. I am confidant that this is possible because during the past 20 years I was able to do same for a period of 5 years and, if I've done it before, I can do it again.

However, what I call the 'Psychiatric Gestapo' are not of like mind and they have the power under the NSW Mental Health Act (1990) to continue to request further CTO's ad infinitum, which I see as a gross abuse of my human rights.

Despite the current CTO, I discontinued taking medications some 3 months ago and have avoided the psychiatrist since the approval of the CTO by the Mental Health Tribunal. I am still in contact with my psychologist case manager who is sympathetic to my wants and desires but his hands are tied by the organization he works for.

Prior to the next hearing I intend to come clean about my non compliance with the 'Treatment Plan' and I also intend to announce at the next hearing that I have no intention of cooperating any further with any further orders made by the Tribunal.

Is there any advice you can give me on how to go ahead with my plan and do you know of any group who can assist.

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 10:24:36 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: Where is acopulco
Message:
you two trying to teach me some bad habits aren't you? Steal a bank. What happened to our plans to steal that 7 million dollar boat? Can we take it to acopulco?
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Date: Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 21:32:24 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: okaaay just wanted you to know
Message:
that - ta da!! - It's Not About Me.
and I don't know of any fight, I think it's something else but would rather discuss it in email {snicker oops guess you don't want any email :) :)}

yeah we'll toast we have some chanpagne so I'll think of you.
Read my info about VM Ware and Linux. I think you would like this.

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 13:53:54 (GMT)
From: Oliver
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Discuss it at Wanton Tales. (nt)
Message:
nt :)))
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Date: Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 21:44:42 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Sheesh
Message:
Well how would you like to wake up, turn your machine and read crap that will spoil your day?, ha, come on, tell me,go on, stick it up, I am serious now. I need a bear, got a hang up from last night. Bloody Spanish chicks that do the shakti, thought I may get them to talk to me about in private, no such luck. I think I want to goin this cult, looks like there is a chance of getting laid, just kidding. Oh shakti babes come to me.

Did not see your VM and Linux post, where is it?

Feel a bit better, but ready to get the piss again if anyone says anything, I got my saucepan ready.

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 13:58:17 (GMT)
From: Oh ye of little faith....
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Re: Sheesh
Message:
Slowly, slowly attracts the females.

Do not take chance of ending up under their table. ;)))

Let's do lunch at my house. Are you game???

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Date: Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 02:46:48 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Oh ye of little faith....
Subject: little cat rubbing himself on my foot..nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 02:48:25 (GMT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: make that my leg..nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 02:57:51 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com
To: Salam
Subject: I thought it was a laff
Message:
I've been watching some group list email which was unsolicited, of course, and thought it was interesting in a bizarre kind of way. I dunno why everyone wants to post me this stuff so I decided to put my two cents in and that started a bit of a rumpuss.

That was a few hours ago before I went out. I'll have a gander at it before I go to bed. It's 3am here now.

Happy New Year

.. Dave

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 04:22:40 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: a laff? You deranged pom.
Message:
what can you expect from a person that keeps big bouncing boobs locked on his site. You $%^&*2.

Have good dreams.

Salam

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Date: Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 21:50:20 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: uh sorry I forgot all the OT OT WOT and TWOT
Message:
We will get deleted :)
I AM reading the same stuff. and as I said, I agree.
As for your cult thing, hell I bet a LOT of premies joined up to get laid too. What a joke, considering the crowd M attracted and yeah I'm putting myself down saying this but oh well.
So there. Are you mad now?
The VMWare/Linux info is under the thread you started about Happy New Year about halfway down the page.
I can give you specs and stuff if you want, it's running on my workstation at work.
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Date: Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 22:06:37 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: salam_au@iprimus.com.au
To: Selene
Subject: FA ban Selene, she is stealing my thread
Message:
I bet you, the FA is laying under a table somewhere half drunk. Bugger f5 he says, let those boofhead sort it out between themselves. What a disgrace.

So you are in a linux cult, ha? Just like that bum down there talking about the US election whenever he wants, I can do the same, so there.

Yeah, got Linux going, pain in the ass. Windoz, bugger that, do not want to even hear the word. What is the point of wanting to run both op.sys. Yeah, bugger it, I have 12 computers and I pull them apart and put them back together. I have installed all sorts on them, so now is my last ditch. Linux server rules OK, bill sucks. Great talking to you, back to me ol self now.

How much you know about this Linux cult?

When are you going to get drunk (I like to see you drunk)?

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Date: Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 22:08:59 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: FA ban Selene, she is stealing my thread
Message:
I was thinking, would you like to discuss this over dinner? :)
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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 14:16:12 (GMT)
From: My body is revolting
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Re: FA ban Selene, she is stealing my thread
Message:
My body is aching, the typing id =s slow.

Usually sigh of pending acute admission.

VB
Chill out. :::)))))

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 16:22:07 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: My body is revolting
Subject: huh?
Message:
Anyway salam I would have dinner - good thing I don't like traditional breakfast foods.
Don't know who VB is but its not me.
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Date: Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 02:54:11 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Cat
Message:
who else. I thought VB= Victoria Bitter, an Australian beer, but then it maybe Visual Basic, who knows and how cares. Who ever it i can chock on his food. but thanks for accepting the invitation, now all I need is to save some money for the flight (where am I going by the way?).
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Date: Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 04:51:43 (GMT)
From: Mystery Cat
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Cat
Message:
Read it carefully. It's Oliver. He's trying to tell you something. Breakfast(VB?) would only be a cab fare for you.
[this is my one and only post this thread]
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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 16:40:50 (GMT)
From: Oliver
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: huh?
Message:
The princess and I am having lunch at the restaurant at the middle of no where today. Will write a review.
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Date: Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 15:28:53 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Cheers
Message:
Making your way in the world today
Takes everything you've got..
Getting away from the noise and hurry
Sure would help alot...

Wouldn't you like to get awaaaay,
And go relax someplace you know...
Everyboddddy knows The Naaaaaame,
And they're always glad he caaaaaame,
You wanna be where people know
Troubles are all the same,
You wanna go where everybody knows The Name.

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Date: Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 15:51:56 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: Cheers / edit #1 / respects to the TV show
Message:
Making your way in the world today
Takes everything you've got..
Getting away from the noise and hurry
Sure would help alot...

Wouldn't you like to get away...
Sometimes you wanna go
Where everybody knows The Naaaaaame,
And they're always glad he caaaaaame,
You wanna go where people know
Troubles are all the same,
You wanna go where everybody knows The Name.

Looking for God this darkest age
Takes everything you've got
Knowing the way through all the bullshit
Sure would help alot...

Wouldn't you like to get away...
Sometimes you wanna go
Where everybody feels your paaaaain
And there's no one out to gaaaaaain,
You wanna go where people know
God's in your heart and brain,
You wanna go where everybody knows the game.

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Date: Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 14:04:47 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Happy New Year Everyone
Message:
and I hope we are all back next year to kick rawats ass. Love you all you knuckle heads, have fun. Will be out for a while testing Linux ( I mean crashing few computers) so catch up with you later,

Take care

Salam

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Date: Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 18:04:58 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Happy New Year Everyone
Message:
Hey Salam
May the new year have many blessings for you and everyone here. Thanks to all for all your support over the years. This place causes quite a growth spurt to those who dare enter its gates! I'm glad I found it!
HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!
Helen
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Date: Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 23:57:43 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Happy New Year adn Linux rules
Message:
We have a license plate from a computer conference
Linux Live Free or Die
ha, we tend to get fanatical but honestly it isn't a cult I swear. Once you get it all running, check out VMWARE. You can still run Windoze in a window, it only cost about 100 US.
Happy New Year Salam.
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Date: Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 16:50:39 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Happy New Year Everyone, and... (sorta OT)
Message:
Happy New Year to you too, Salam! And to everyone else here.

BTW, in case anyone wonders why I haven't been here, I have two major work projects with deadlines right after New Year's Day. Also, if anyone is used to getting a holiday card from me, I didn't hardly send out any this year, so please don't feel slighted - it's not you, it's ME (snicker!).

Best wishes for a BETTER New Year to all of you!
Katie

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Date: Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 21:28:18 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Happy New Year Everyone, and... (sorta OT)
Message:
No problemo with the Xmas cards. Makes me feel less guilty for not sending them out :)
I know what you mean about work taking all your energy!
Happy New Year.
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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 00:12:46 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Happy New Year Everyone, and... (sorta OT)
Message:
Thanks, Selene - and happy New Year to you too!

I love my job but 7 days a week gets crazy - I know you know how that is.

Let's hope next year is better than this year - not that this year has been so bad (for me, anyway), but I always like to say that. Sorta like another friend of mine says 'Hope your holiday season doesn't suck.' :)

love,
Katie

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 00:43:12 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: funny thing about xmas cards
Message:
I was reunited with some long lost relatives this fall and so felt obligated to send a few more cards than my usual which is none or a sporadic few over the years.
And what does my sister tell me on the phone yesterday? That it's been a sort of family 'tradition' that someone who has suffered a loss or death or bad time that year did not send cards. I NEVER GET IT RIGHT Katie :) :) I don't even get upset anymore, what can I say?
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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 00:58:53 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: funny thing about xmas cards
Message:
What can I say, Selene? How about a big 'SHEESH!'

(BTW, think your sister's full of it, but nevermind!)

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 01:02:05 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: yeah she is a serious bs artist
Message:
to the tune of about half a million but , nevermind :)
What a life. I should go be social again I suppose.
Love and best to you.
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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 03:26:30 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: 'a family tradition'...
Message:
...when there isn't a family to begin with?

Actually I hear this a lot - from both my and Brian's side of the family, but - as you say - it's BS ($$$$ or not). Just thank god that WE don't have to believe all that crap!

Love to you too -
Katie

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 03:54:40 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: yeah but it's hard to shine em on sometimes
Message:
I'm getting good at it.
I think the thread Susan started is making me zany, I am just cracking up can't help it. I know it isn't funny really but...
it's my way of coping with the Black Hole's Grasp.
( that's a firework thingy my son brought us but we can't shoot it cause it's too intense and might start a desert fire)

Good to hear from you Katie.

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Date: Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 18:22:20 (GMT)
From: Oliver
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Happy New Year Everyone, and... (sorta OT)
Message:
See font page pic., Sydney's 'The Sun-Herald' 31.12.2000

Sound technique.
.
.
.
. ::)))

LOL.

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 00:10:02 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Oliver
Subject: Say what, Oliver?
Message:
Didn't understand your post. BTW - Happy New Year!
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Date: Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 20:51:29 (GMT)
From: Oliver
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Say what, Oliver?
Message:
You had to be there with a copy of the Sunday Morning Herald on your lap. I the main pic on the front page, stood a guy at a rave, with his fingers in his ears.

Apropos of my late cards:-

>>> 'Phil Garratt' 25/12/00 4:28:14 am >>>

....technology has failed to improve the quality of life, please press 3.
.
.
3.
.
.
Merry Christmas too y'all and all of yours.

Should you not have received this years 'CRAZY XMAS CARD' don't despair. I
have sacked Aussie Post and cards are being sent this year via e-m, a first
for us here at 'Crazy Cardz.' The only fly in the ointment is that Princess
Caroline has not finished the art work as yet but I will handcuff her to the work station as soon as she wakes, and drive her hard until it's finished.

In the meantime, stay tuned to 99.3 FM for further developments in the latest developments regarding CTO's and what to do with them.

Have a happy day and remember, if you drink, don't drive. Travel in style with Pioneer Cabs, they will get you there and back in one piece every time.

Twiz, Phil, & Oliver.

Mr Chris De'ath
A/Registrar
NSW Mental Health Tribunal

I want a copy of the audio tape of the last hearing where the CTO was extended. This is to prepare my defense of the next application for a continuance of the order which is to be made by the mental health team prior to the expiration of the current one.

Is that clear enough? Is that sufficient reason for me to apply for a copy of the audio tape?

Where do I come with my money and will you accept cash?

Katie, I hope that makes it a bit clearer.

You could visit the late Rob's Wanton Tales.

Love Oliver,
Ps. Des sends his regards.

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Date: Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 16:34:44 (GMT)
From: Oliver
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Happy New Year Everyone nt.
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 21:21:35 (GMT)
From: Tim G
Email: usual
To: all
Subject: Happy New Year Everyone
Message:
HNY to Salam Katie Oliver and all my new aquaintenances in the virtual realms. I wish you all a healthy happy year ahead. Let's have fun and also continue to articulate the nature of the cult so that people may have a more informed insight into what it is all based on. I suspect Greed and a dose of almost insuperable conditioning has prevented m from taking the next step on his 'Spiritual' path..he must be a pretty unhappy character in some ways. 1st step is to disband the cult and apologise for the hurt he has caused.
On the bright side he has brought together, by default, a group of sincere people.
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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 15:12:11 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Tim G
Subject: Happy New Year Everyone
Message:
Dear Tim,
'On the bright side he has brought together, by default, a group of sincere people.'
Big Time! :)
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 00:08:15 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Election Reprise (OT)
Message:
Hi everyone. Just one more comment on our disastrous election over here in the U.S of A. Seems the press would like us all to 'move on' and just forget about it all, and get back to shopping, which is what any good American is supposed to be doing 24/7.

This, as the nation's popular vote lead for Al Gore continues to pile up – now nearing the 550,000 mark. In the meantime, George W. Bush, the Republican 'winner' of the November 7 national election, prepares to become the country's 43rd president.

Never mind that the current post-election inspection of Florida's ballots is expected to eventually confirm that Gore won that banana republic by possibly as much as 35,000 votes, because it has now been revealed (and confirmed in Newsweek) that U.S. Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O'Connor was so upset during an election night party in D.C. when she heard erroneous reports that Florida had been declared by the networks for Gore that she angrily declared 'this is terrible,' because with Gore having already won other key states like Michigan, Illinois and Pennsylvania, the election was, according to Justice O'Connor, 'over.'

O'Connor was said to have been so angry that she stormed from the room leaving her husband John to hastily explain to others why the lifelong Republican was so upset at the thought of a Democrat winning the election. Needless to say, O'Connor got her revenge weeks later as she was among the five conservative Supreme Court justices who voted in favor of ending the Florida recount, a decision that effectively quashed Gore's chances at overcoming Bush in the battle for Florida, and the White House.

Anyhow, as for the popular vote totals now over half a million, that Gore continues to rack up over Bush, the Republicans in Washington seem to be getting increasingly sensitive over the fact. I saw California Senator Dianne Feinstein on a recent Larry King Live show with Virginia Republican Senator John Warner. Feinstein mentioned during the hourlong show that while she fully recognized Bush as the next president, she also recognized the fact that Gore had decisively won the popular vote. Bam! Warner quickly hit the roof, berated Feinstein for even mentioning it, and the annoyed Warner remained in a snit through the rest of the show. Nope, you won't be hearing much from the Republicans that their man Bush was not the favorite of most American voters on Election Day.

Meanwhile, President-elect Bush's appointment of John Ashcroft, the anti-gay, pro-life conservative, who lost to a dead guy on election day, to become attorney general is clearly a move to appease the Gary Bauer-Pat Robertson-Jesse Helms-Jerry Falwell wing of the Republican Party; these hate-mongers kept unusually quite during the Bush campaign (anything to get the White House back for the Republicans) but it is now the payoff hour 'big-time,' and Bush, with the usual wink and a nod has started to deliver.

As Helen said, we are really fucked. Happy New Year!

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Date: Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 16:01:46 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Election Reprise (OT)
Message:
Hi Joe -
Good post! I am really upset about Ashcroft being nominated - I was SO happy when he lost to Carnahan's widow on Election Day, but I guess this is his 'prize'. I was waiting for Bush to pick some moderates or Democrats for his cabinet - like Nixon did, but guess I shouldn't hold my breath, huh? If he's supposedly 'reaching out' to everyone, he hasn't show evidence of it yet. What he is doing is making Democrats even MORE pissed off than they already were, if that's possible, and creating yet more partianship.

I heard the story about O'Connor too - as you said, it was in Newsweek. Apparently she wants to retire but refused to do so if a Democrat was elected president. Well, I guess now she can retire in peace, having fixed it for herself so she can do so. (I have lost a lot of respect for her in the past month.)

BTW, I wouldn't rely on John Warner for much intelligent commentary. I do believe he is a principled person (he didn't jump on the Oliver North bandwagon, for which I respect him), but he ain't the brightest star in the sky.

Take care - I'm disgusted, too -
Katie

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Date: Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 15:59:13 (GMT)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Election Reprise (OT)
Message:
Personally, I'm glad you posted this off-topic subject. It's not only more interesting than maharaji and his blunders, but may also affect us even more than the residue from having been in the cult (depending on specifics). Most people I'm in contact with have long forgotten the election.

Meanwhile, the tragedy continues. In addition to Ashcroft, we now have Tommy Thompson as health and human services secretary. Is it my imagination, or did I hear him say 'I'm a pro-life governor' when he accepted Bush's nomination? As the guy in Wisconsin that got all those lazy welfare mothers off the dole, what can we expect but more homeless children without health care.

And how bad can this get? Gale Norton as secretary of the interior... already talking about supporting drilling for oil in wildlife refuges.

I heard last night on the delightful 'McLaughlin Group' show, a prediction that Bush will switch the focus from school vouchers to a model cultivated by the Edison Corporation that takes over public schools and runs them as private industry. Not hard to see where this is going.

The kicker, for me, was seeing Donald Rumsfeld accept Bush's nomination for secretary of defense. I don't know much about him except that he held the same position in the Ford administration but if ever a man looked evil, this guy is it. Made me want to puke. The whole thing makes me want to puke. I thought we were out of the woods when Clinton got elected and just didn't want to think this was possible. It's like a nightmare where you just don't wake up.

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Date: Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 06:20:26 (GMT)
From: Monmot
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: It's President-Select, Not Elect (NT and OT)
Message:
eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeck!!!
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Date: Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 01:48:32 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Election Reprise (OT)
Message:
Joe,

I don't see how you can be so adamant that Gore was the clearcut winner of the presidency. Of the popular vote, yeah, but of the electoral college, I don't think so. What I think it boils down to is that there was no clear standard in effect for doing a handcount of machine ballots. The ensuing farce was the result of that and all measures should have been taken to avoid it, like just leaving it at the machine count and letting bygones be bygones just as it was throughout the rest of the country.

Do you think Florida was the only state where votes got overlooked? Hardly. Crude estimates place it at between 1 million and two million votes that aren't counted for one reason or another in every national election. Now, all of a sudden this 'travesty' of justice is supposed to have occured in Florida becasue Bush argued (reasonably in my book) that there's no standard for doing handcounts of these ballots. I don't think so. To me, the whole thing was a circus as they scrambled from court to court trying to justify standards that should have long been in place before the election.

As for being fucked, that remains to be seen. You know more than I do about the powers vested in various politicians, and what damage they can do, like crazy Christian Right boy, Ashcroft, but I wouldn't jump the gun with any undue anxiety until they start the reamin'. Y'know what I mean? If nothing else, look at it this way. The struggle continues. Always has, always will. Just keep fighting the good fight, my man. Like Frederick Douglas once said, 'There is no progress without struggle.' Boy, was he onto something!

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Date: Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 06:31:13 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Huh?
Message:
Jerry, when did I ever say Gore was 'the clearcut winner of the presidency?' I said he got the most votes, yes, and it may turn out that he also won the electoral college once they finally count the votes in Florida, but I have never said he 'won the presidency.'

I don't want to get into an argument about what is a vote and what isn't. I just think Florida law should have been followed, which the Supreme Court said should be followed, but, too bad, we just ran out of time, mostly because the very same Court stayed the vote-counting until it was too late.

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Date: Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 04:43:34 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Election Reprise (OT)
Message:
Jerry:

What I think it boils down to is that there was no clear standard in effect for doing a handcount of machine ballots.

Well, as I understand it the *Miami Herald* is going to tally the hand count of machine ballots according to a number of different standards, so you can choose your own poison. I expect that Gore won by almost any standard, so that bit of social construction is about to go 'bye bye.'

It's a little like the grand Millennium Celebrations that took place on Jan. 1, 2000: a marvelous and exciting bit of social construction that just happened to be a year early. Meanwhile reality gets a big yawn...

Happy New Millennium
(If you're not worried that reality doesn't matter much, you will be.)

--Scott

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Date: Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 14:32:36 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: To Joe and Scott
Message:
Whatever. I think this horse we've been beating is long dead. Keep beating it if you want, but I've about had my fill.
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Date: Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 16:19:08 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: To Joe and Scott
Message:
Hi Jerry -
When the Supreme Court stopped the vote count, my conclusion was that Gore would have ended up being the technical winner in the end (I still think that.) You're right about the actual vote count being a dead horse, although everyone KNEW that those votes would eventually be counted, and we'd all hear about it! However, I feel the issue now is that Bush doesn't appear to be taking into account that at least half the people in the country don't want him to be president. I really expected some concessions on this account (even relatively meaningless ones) - looks like this is not going to happen.

Take care,
Katie

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Date: Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 19:56:20 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: On Bush concessions
Message:
Katie:

I'm not even sure that he's in a position to make concessions. Not only is he too 'small' a man, from a character perspective, but he's a new President without a popular mandate (in real terms he doesn't even have a plurality) at the point in history when the Presidency itself is declining in power, facing an evenly divided congress that could turn into a Democrat majority at almost any moment (with the death of Thurmond or Helms). I'm really more concerned about what the Democrats do right now. Will they pick up the challenge that, by rights, belongs to them? Also, I don't really want to see Gore run again, though people will probably feel some obligation to give him another shot. Gray Davis would be a decent choice, but I'd love to see Paul Wellstone give it a go. I think it's time for a center-left coalition, with election reform as the driving and organizing issue. Probably won't happen though.

--Scott

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 22:04:12 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: Appointments and Democrats
Message:
Scott,

I think appointing a democrat or two to the Cabinet would be a good start to at least give a bipartisan signal. I also think it's kind of scary that the went back to the cold war days to pick a Secretary of Defense.

But you may be right that one of the reasons he isn't being more bi-partisan is that he is not making the decisions. It is the people around him that are doing that, all people from 15 years ago or more, who don't want to be bipartisan at all.

But Ashcroft as Attorney General is a clear signal that civil rights, gun control, etc., are out the window. Just about anybody would have been better. Except for Jesse Helms, you can't get more anti-civil rights than Ashcroft. It's a huge 'FUCK YOU' to the African American community for one, but hell, they didn't vote for Bush, so why should he care!

I wouldn't count on the democrats doing much. They never have been much of a unified party, and the Republicans are very good at picking them apart. Plus, a good 50-60 democrats in the house are really republicans, and a good 10 in senate are as well.

I'd love to see Paul Wellstone run as well, but I think his chances would be someplace between zero and none. And unless Gray Davis weathers the current energy crisis in California, his career could be over pretty soon. Right now, he seems to be trying to distance himself from something caused by his predecessors, but it is a very big deal, and will be for the next couple of years, at least.

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Date: Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 08:21:38 (GMT)
From: Owl
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: Election count methodology was already stated by,
Message:
To who who who, whom it may concern........

lol

////////////////////////////////////////////////////

You said: 'What I think it boils down to is that there was no clear standard in effect for doing a handcount of machine ballots.'

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

I say:

The, election count methodology of the under count was already stated by, existing law that was similar to that in Texas, which was to have the Election Board for each County to make a determination based on their best assessment as to how the voter intended to vote, that includes looking at dimple ballots among other things.

This was not clear to some who like to have things such as a clear hole in a ballot with no chad hanging as to be the only measure of what is or is not a legally permissible indication of a vote, but that and other simplistic, (no brainier type things) was not and is not what the law says it shall be, when and if a recount is legally called for, which it was.

Yes, they were requested to think, and make an honest attempt at discerning what the intent of the voter was.

This is something like what is asked of a jury when they are asked to make their best determination as to intent, but with the requirement to take into account the evidence.

It all comes down to trusting the people, the person. This is what Bush ran on or one of the (BIG TIME), {lol} things that he was all about, that was that he would in the final analysis be trusting the people the person each and everyone of us......

(LOL)


What a hypocrite!!!!!!!!!!!!!


lol

lol
.

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Date: Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 20:16:17 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Owl
Subject: Election count methodology.
Message:
Owl:

Methodology is a really serious topic, and not intuitively understood by people unfamiliar with research discipline. I don't think the jury analogy holds, and I was concerned about uniform standards in Florida from the first. I would advocate a methodology that has as it's objective discovering the most accurate count of the vote margin. This would suggest a methodology that minimizes false negatives, and that probably maximizes false positives. This is probably not a methodology that would have satisfied the legal requirements, since it virtually insures that some ballots will be counted as votes when no vote was intended (which would inflate the total vote count, but would probably not affect the vote margin).

But we ought to have a second methodology that treats chads in an unbiased manner. For instance, if you count a chad attached at three points as a punch then you have to *always* count it as a punch, even if it means that a ballot becomes an overvote. That's what a researcher would do, because he has to face the prospect of peer review. Of course, other circumstances can cause the general rule to be over-ridden. If someone writes a name on a ballot, for instance, then that clearly over-rides the general methodology.

We also ought to look at the over-vote in counties with optical scanners, because stray marks often result in over-votes in those conditions. The undervote is the problem in punch card systems, while the overvote is the problem in optical scanner systems. We need to get this stuff right, or at least get it to the point where most research professionals accept the results without serious criticism.

--Scott

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Date: Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 21:22:11 (GMT)
From: Owl
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: Election count methodology.
Message:
**************************************************************

I appreciate your thoughts, but I will still stand by what I said,

'Owl responded:

To who who who, whom it may concern........

lol

////////////////////////////////////////////////////

You said: 'What I think it boils down to is that there was no clear standard in effect for doing a handcount of machine ballots.'

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////


I say:

The, election count methodology of the under count was already stated by, existing law that was similar to that in Texas, which was to have the Election Board for each County to make a determination based on their best assessment as to how the voter intended to vote, that includes looking at dimple ballots among other things.

This was not clear to some who like to have things such as a clear hole in a ballot with no chad hanging as to be the only measure of what is or is not a legally permissible indication of a vote, but that and other simplistic, (no brainier type things) was not and is not what the law says it shall be, when and if a recount is legally called for, which it was.

Yes, they were requested to think, and make an honest attempt at discerning what the intent of the voter was.

This is something like what is asked of a jury when they are asked to make their best determination as to intent, but with the requirement to take into account the evidence.

It all comes down to trusting the people, the person. This is what Bush ran on or one of the (BIG TIME), {lol} things that he was all about, that was that he would in the final analysis be trusting the people the person each and everyone of us......

(LOL)

What a hypocrite!!!!!!!!!!!!!


lol

lol
.

**************************************************************
**************************************************************
**************************************************************


I do hope you rethink your dismissal of the Jury analogy, as it was among other arguments, that that was given and accepted by a bipartisan House and Senate in the State of Florida when it was put forth to have the law written as it was, and as we know the Florida State Supreme Court also concurred with this methodology as well.

lol


Have a nice Millennium.

Owl

.


P.S. ~ I think it is MORE THAN OBVIOUS that we need to have a better system for voting then pushing holes through a piece of paper, (lol), maybe we might see some sort of {ATM} type of electronic voting..........

Again..........

Have a nice Millennium.

Owl

.

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Date: Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 18:05:51 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Owl
Subject: Election count methodology.
Message:
Owl:

I know the position taken by the Gore lawyers concerning the legal 'standard.' However, I think they shot themselves in the foot by failing to recognize that no self respecting researcher could have gotten away with such a 'standard.' If they had put a bit more effort into establishing some sort of standardized methodology early on, either by voluntary adherence or whatever, they'd have avoided the problem of equal protection entirely. I think they got waylayed by their own legalistic perspective, and ignorance of methodology. I sent an email to them in the first couple of days suggesting that they contact Gary King at Harvard, and have him explain the detailed issues, just so they were aware of them. (Gary is incredibly clear in his presentation.) I doubt they ever read the email judging by the expert testemony they used in the Sauls trial. Sometimes lawyers hurt more than they help, and finding a lawyer who understands methodology can be a real chore. They sure paid the price.

--Scott

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Date: Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 21:23:28 (GMT)
From: Owl
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: Election count methodology.
Message:
Hi .......


I still stand by what I said.


************************************************************

You said, 'I doubt they ever read the email judging by the expert testemony they used in the Sauls trial. Sometimes lawyers hurt more than they help, and finding a lawyer who understands methodology can be a real chore. They sure paid the price.'

--Scott

************************************************************


.......... [ FLORIDA SUPREME COURT RULES FOR GORE ] ............

I say, (not so), and that I watched the Sauls trial and I think and I know that they did a great job, a helpful job, so well in FACT, that it was WON on appeal too the Florida Supreme Court.

The Sovereign States Rights to determine this matter was and is what this finally came down to, and that is where the United States Supreme Court played the old kill the clock.......

And has already been stated, that about the Kangaroo United States Supreme Court, speaks for it self.

So they did not pay a price, but the people of this Country were forced to pay a price, exacted by some of the Members of the United States Supreme Court.

So if you still want to turn this into something else for yourself, well, go ahead...., but I stand by what I have said.

Happy New Year...........

Owl

.

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 02:15:13 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Owl
Subject: Election count methodology.
Message:
Owl:

And I stand by what I said.

The Sovereign States Rights to determine this matter was and is what this finally came down to,

What it came down to, in the end, was whether a 'practical standard' could have been consistently applied to every manually counted ballot in the state, and 'intent of the voter' was not considered a practical standard. Equal protection will always trump state sovereignty. The vote on that issue was 7-2 in the US Supreme Court, not 5-4, and the Gore lawyers never saw it coming. Not exactly successful if you ask me.

I think they should have known that a consistent practical standard was required by the second or third day of the recount, or at least should have been worried about it a little. It was something that would bother any social scientist, and they apparently never had anyone on the payroll who gave them a heads up. I thought the expert testemony they elicited in the Sauls trial was barely adequate to the narrow question that was raised, so could hardly have warned them of what was coming. Seriously, this sort of methodology applied in a court setting is my field... so I'm not just blowing smoke. It's how I make my living. I'm hoping to break into bicycle design though.

--Scott

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 13:18:04 (GMT)
From: Owl
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: Election count methodology.
Message:
(lol)

And I still stand by what I said.


(lol)

You are wrong as I see it, as it was and has been a law for a some time to count, as I have stated before in a manner that judiciously looks for voter intent including dimpled chads, and makes a determination as to what is or is not a vote, and this is what was upheld by the Florida Supreme Court, even though it was not as you would seemingly like to see it in some other fashion such as you describe as a, 'practical standard'. (lol) I will also point out that the 7-2 vote that you refer to was that for concerns about the CASE and that was only something that would be, and was looked at, and it was not the Judgement Ruling that was given as a, 'per curiam,' or unsigned, opinion, which was a 5-4 ruling, (lol). by the way, 'per curiam,' or unsigned, opinion, means that the Court does not state whom actually voted for it, (lol), it is the lowest possible way to infer that the Court has voted for it, (lol).

Also you say, “I thought the expert testemony they elicited in the Sauls trial was barely adequate to the narrow question that was raised, so could hardly have warned them of what was coming.”

I say again as I said before, I thought that his testimony was very good, and that is part of the reason that they won on appeal, and in fact it was so good that as I just said they won on appeal to the Florida Supreme Court.

Also you say, “Seriously, this sort of methodology applied in a court setting is my field... so I'm not just blowing smoke. It's how I make my living.”

I say, I take that as a way you attempt to bolster your argument and not just as something you mention as an aside or in a non-posturing fashion, it does not matter to me if you were one of the United States Supreme Court Justices that was in error as I see it and as 4 others saw it on that Supreme Court itself.

I just go by what I understand from the law and other things that I know, and I put that forth without any posturing of my Standing or lack there of in the SYSTEM.

(lol)


Happy New Year!!!


[ So I think this, this subject has had the clock run out on it, at least for the time being, So let us try another one, if you can let go of this one, (lol), and I hope you can, and let's talk about, your reason for getting into bicycle design, if you want to? ]

.

Happy New Year!

.

Owl

.

The ruling followed the court's familiar lineup -- conservatives Rehnquist, Thomas and Justices Antonin Scalia, Sandra Day O'Connor and Anthony M. Kennedy on one side, and liberals John Paul Stevens, David H. Souter, Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Stephen G. Breyer on the other.

.

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 23:50:57 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Owl
Subject: Election count methodology.
Message:
Owl:

I just go by what I understand from the law and other things that I know, and I put that forth without any posturing of my Standing or lack there of in the SYSTEM.

Well, it's nice to know that you won't be held back by actually learning anything. (LOL, or whatever)

7 out of 9 justices saw a problem with equal protection, regardless of what the 'law' said. 2 of those 7 saw it as 'fixable' within the time fame. I also think it was fixable, but the fact that the Gore legal team didn't even see it coming left them with absolutely no arguments about how to institute an adequate standard. Sorry, but that just doesn't strike me as clever.

You're welcome to make up your own mind about the adequacy of the testimony in the Sauls trial, but it's completely erroneous to say that had anything to do with the FSC case. The FSC argument rested on the notion that the best evidence was the ballots themselves, and that the evidence had not been considered. The expert testimony given in the Sauls trial had little if any significance.

Now, I could get into detail about the testimony itself, but don't have time. Do you know anything about 'selection bias,' for instance... and why it might or might not be important to the Sauls case? Do you recall the issue concerning the order of precincts that were counted in Dade county, and what that had to do with the validity of the inference? How about the difference between validity and reliability? You have a very reliable argument, but unfortunately it's not valid. (You must be an engineer. They always go for reliability over validity.)

The finding that the 'standard' in Florida for manually counting punch card ballots was inadequate is enormously problematic, because some 30 states have a similar 'standard.' Moreover, I think the argument that the standard violates equal protection could be seen as one that strains out gnats to swallow camels... because the inequity of the voting system far outweighs the inequity of the counting system.

But that doesn't mean that the finding was incorrect. You can't be guided merely by the fact that other states have similar laws. By that sort of reasoning the argument against slavery was incorrect, because nearly half the states practiced it, and had traditions and laws that supported it. The same goes for the Jim Crow laws.

All I'm saying is that the Gore legal team was seduced by 'groupthink.' They should have hired a better expert, like King, who would have given them a leg up. Anyway, the fun's over. Back to work.

--Scott

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Date: Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 16:12:15 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Owl
Subject: Quite ironic, isn't it
Message:
It all comes down to trusting the people, the person. This is what Bush ran on or one of the (BIG TIME), {lol} things that he was all about, that was that he would in the final analysis be trusting the people the person each and everyone of us......

Yeah, and he had to rely on 'Big Government' and 'Washington Fuzzy Math' to get elected. He was already a hypocrite for decrying 'Washington' when his own father worked in federal appointed and elected offices for most of his life - this just shows that what he truly believes is that the end justifies the means.

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Date: Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 20:32:43 (GMT)
From: Owl
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: As we concur, ............'quite ironic, isn't it'
Message:
Katie, thank you for putting some of my facetious and satirical comments on top and then responding as you did, it is nice to hear from someone that also sees through the bushes, at least where it comes to these, (lol), Bushes, as I do.

Owl

.

'Happy New Millennium'

.

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Date: Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 01:47:49 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Warner's got a point
Message:
Joe,

First, I'm sure you'd agree that this forum isn't particularly the place for long, protracted discussions about U.S. politics. When I wasn't posting (but lurking) I turned a few people on to the forum. They were pretty confused by the action then as the conversation seemed every bit as centered on the election as it was on the cult. That can't be good. In fact, it really would have been best, in my opinion, if all that talk had happened on AG as there is no connection, however tenuous, with the issues here.

Nonetheless, I do want to say that I think Warner's got a point. What does it matter that Gore won the popular vote? Unless you're advocating a complete rewrite of the election rules, it's a curiosity and nothing more. However, it sounds like something more to you; it sounds like you're saying that Bush essentially stole the presidency or something. To the extent that that claim's based on the disparity between the popular vote and the state-by-state tally, that's simply untrue. So where does that kind of talk go anyway? I'm not talking about the internal vote issues in Florida or the Supreme Court's decision(s). Just the argument that the popular vote should somehow count for something. It shouldn't. Not under these rules of engagement.

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Date: Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 06:17:10 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: You missed the point, I think
Message:
You know, Jim, I think you might be the person with about the least amount of crediblity to tell people to stay 'on topic.' Need I remind of seemingly endless Dawkins discussions and the like you have engaged in, initiated and prolonged over the past few years?

I don't think there is anything to be lost by people seeing that ex-premies have lives, interests and have more going on than the anti-Maharaji crusade. Fortunately, or unfortunately, the US election was an important issue to a lot of people, and perhaps for a few weeks some of us thought about it more than our former cult. I suppose there are many people who are tired of talking about it. But then, some aren't.

I think you miss the point entirely about Warner. Warner's 'point' that you are agreeing with, was than he didn't like it mentioned that his candidate came in second by over half a million votes. The point isn't that Bush shouldn't be president. Our antiquated electoral college system did determine a winner (setting aside the debacle in Florida) and, as I said, Feinstein acknowledged that to Warner.

The point is Bush ought to acknowledge that somebody else got more votes than he did, and ought to conduct his administration with that in mind. The point is, his appointments, particularly of Ashcroft don't reflect his intention to do that. With that in mind, it makes sense to remind him who got the most votes, and resist the temptation to just forget it. Warner and Bush shouldn't be pissed off about that, although they are.

It ought also to be mentioned because the Electoral College ought to be abandoned to avoid this kind of problem happening again. We are SUPPOSED to be a country with majority rule, and yet the outdated system allowed the guy who came in second to be President. We ought to talk about it so that can be debated anc changed. This is very relevent.

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Date: Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 20:57:12 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Come on!
Message:
You know, Jim, I think you might be the person with about the least amount of crediblity to tell people to stay 'on topic.' Need I remind of seemingly endless Dawkins discussions and the like you have engaged in, initiated and prolonged over the past few years?

Evolution, spirituality, the existence or non-existence of the soul, our 'true nature' and all that stuff is hardly off topic, Joe. You know that.

I don't think there is anything to be lost by people seeing that ex-premies have lives, interests and have more going on than the anti-Maharaji crusade. Fortunately, or unfortunately, the US election was an important issue to a lot of people, and perhaps for a few weeks some of us thought about it more than our former cult. I suppose there are many people who are tired of talking about it. But then, some aren't.

The election preoccupied a lot of Americans especially (in particular, politically interested ones like you) but it still had nothing to do with this forum. Nothing. The initial discussions were an off-topic indulgence and yet, over a few weeks, that trickle became a river and the forum lost its focus. It's a pretty thin justification for that, in my opinion, to say that it enabled 'people', whoever they are, to see that exes have other interests. I mean, really, you can't be serious about that.

I think you miss the point entirely about Warner. Warner's 'point' that you are agreeing with, was than he didn't like it mentioned that his candidate came in second by over half a million votes. The point isn't that Bush shouldn't be president. Our antiquated electoral college system did determine a winner (setting aside the debacle in Florida) and, as I said, Feinstein acknowledged that to Warner.

Oh I got it alright, Joe. And again I ask you, why should Warner like it mentioned that Gore won the popular vote? We all know that it was an extremely close election. No republicans deny that. But, frankly Joe, I hear you talking out of both sides of your mouth on this one. You say here, for example, that the point isn't that Bush should be president. But look how you started this thread:

This, as the nation's popular vote lead for Al Gore continues to pile up – now nearing the 550,000 mark. In the meantime, George W. Bush, the Republican 'winner' of the November 7 national election, prepares to become the country's 43rd president.

What's with the quotes, Joe, if they're not your way of saying that you, at least, question Bush's claim to victory?

The point is Bush ought to acknowledge that somebody else got more votes than he did, and ought to conduct his administration with that in mind. The point is, his appointments, particularly of Ashcroft don't reflect his intention to do that. With that in mind, it makes sense to remind him who got the most votes, and resist the temptation to just forget it. Warner and Bush shouldn't be pissed off about that, although they are.

Look, either the guy's the presidetn or he's not. And if he is he can appoint whoever he damn well wants so long as he can get the guy past the senate. The consensus he's going to have to look for is in congress and of course he'll have to do that just because of the numbers. You make it sound like he should put an asterik next to his name or something -- 'only president because of antiquated electoral process'. Forget it. He's the president. Get used to it.

It ought also to be mentioned because the Electoral College ought to be abandoned to avoid this kind of problem happening again. We are SUPPOSED to be a country with majority rule, and yet the outdated system allowed the guy who came in second to be President. We ought to talk about it so that can be debated anc changed. This is very relevent.

First, that's a separate issue yet I can see democrats keeping it as hot and open as they can mainly lest anyone forget that Bush is only, like you said, the 'winner' and not the winner. Second, do you see no advantages to the system? There's at least an argument for the benefits of skewed regional representation as a factor in the hopper. I wonder if any dem's would be so concerned about all this if the anomoly had shaken out the other way. What do you think?

But anyway, I thought you were a Nader guy? According to Nader everything's fine. It was Tweedledee or Tweedledum, one got elected and who gives a fuck? Or did I miss Nader's point too?

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 21:44:02 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: No, you Come on!
Message:
God, Jim, I think you are making my point pretty well. What is 'on topic' is entirely a subjective thing, including 'evolution' and the rest. That's why you aren't in any position to judge that, given that you talk about a lot of stuff many people are not interested in at all, and have said so repeatedly. And stop with the 'you know that' kind of crap. You know I don't agree with you, and I stand on my opinion that you are 'off topic' as much as anybody else, on subjects of interest to fewer people than the recent election, and hence don't have any credibility on that issue.

Regarding the election, true, it was off-topic, but I would suggest that the majority of the forum, at least the Americans and, for some reason the Australiana, were very interested in it, and did contribute. That's why the topic lasted, Jim, and didn't peter out like most of your evolution ones do. It was a big deal to a lot of people, but unlike your evolution stuff, it only lasted a couple of weeks, and hasn't been talked about for weeks until I just did a reprise, so get over it, it is unlikely to dominate the forum for very long, or shove your evolution stuff off, so calm down.

Okay, typical Jim. Now you are saying, as opposed to what you said the first time, that Warner's 'point' is being upset about the results of the popular vote. Okay, so Warner can be upset about whatever he wants to, but what I disagree with his a position that the results of the popular voteshouldn't be mentioned, that it isn't relevent. That seems to be a point you don't want to mention, because it obviously is relevent, and I think you know that. (See, I can do it too.)

Regarding appointments, in addition to Bush's pronouncements about being bi-partisan, my point was that since more people voted for the democrat, he might actually appoint a couple of democrats to the cabinet, and that was Feinstein's argument. God, even Clinton did that, and he won in 1996 by a landslide. Of course Bush can appoint who he wants, but again, the point you keep missing, is that there is nothing wrong with him being reminded he is a minority president and that his nominations might reflect that. What is the big deal about that?

Polls show the majority of americans almost by two thirds favor eliminating the Electoral College, Jim, so it isn't just an interesting curio to talk about, and I think if you read what I said, it was that it ought to be debated, and I don't know how you do that if you don't talk about it, and cite the problems with the current election, with the popular vote results being a primary one, and so if you agree with Warner, everyone would pretend like it never happened. Not a good idea. Even if we end of keeping the system, which was, by the way, instituted to protect slave states, a condition that no longer is needed.

I used 'winner' in quotes because it remains to be seen who actually 'won', even though Bush is President. The votes in Florida will be counted over the next few weeks, at which time I may remove the quotation marks.

I didn't vote for Nader, Jim, but I would suggest that most people who did do 'give a fuck' about who is President.

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 23:14:44 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: No, you Come on!
Message:
God, Jim, I think you are making my point pretty well. What is 'on topic' is entirely a subjective thing, including 'evolution' and the rest. That's why you aren't in any position to judge that, given that you talk about a lot of stuff many people are not interested in at all, and have said so repeatedly. And stop with the 'you know that' kind of crap. You know I don't agree with you, and I stand on my opinion that you are 'off topic' as much as anybody else, on subjects of interest to fewer people than the recent election, and hence don't have any credibility on that issue.

Joe, with all due respect, I think you're confused about this. What's OT isn't JUST a subjective call and the fact that we're disagreeing about it doesn't prove that point. No matter how much one might wish otherwise, the price of eggs in China is not 'on topic' here. And neither is the U.S. presidential election. Spirituality, on the other hand, is and evolution is thus relevant to the extent it addresses spirituality.

I also think you're confusing what's OT from subjects that might be perfectly 'on topic' but which some people still don't want to discuss for other reasons. Now a lot of people here, premies and exes, are spiritual. Many are wary of tossing out the 'baby with the bathwater' in terms of rejecting all spirituality along with the fradulent guru we followed. Evolution, at minimum, poses some very challenging questions to spirituality, to say the least, and some people here have frankly said they didn't want to discuss it, largely because they like their spirituality, with or without the guru, the 'Knowledge' still 'works' for them and that's that. There's always going to be some tension between people who think Knowledge is an illusion and those that think it's cosmic and divine. Sometimes people want to discuss the tension, debate the issue, sometimes not. But the question itself is and will always be relevant here, no matter how many people resist it. The point is, it's relevant, inescapably relevant and, in my opinion, important. And, again, evolution completely speaks to that issue.

Regarding the election, true, it was off-topic, but I would suggest that the majority of the forum, at least the Americans and, for some reason the Australiana, were very interested in it, and did contribute. That's why the topic lasted, Jim, and didn't peter out like most of your evolution ones do. It was a big deal to a lot of people, but unlike your evolution stuff, it only lasted a couple of weeks, and hasn't been talked about for weeks until I just did a reprise, so get over it, it is unlikely to dominate the forum for very long, or shove your evolution stuff off, so calm down.

Really, Joe, I wasn't even talking about evolution and no one's said anything about that topic being 'shoved' anywhere. Look, it's not like it's a big deal that the election became such a central topic here. I never said it was. It was a little deal, something worth talking about, perhaps. Although, you seem so prickyl about it perhaps I shouldn't have mentioned it.

Okay, typical Jim. Now you are saying, as opposed to what you said the first time, that Warner's 'point' is being upset about the results of the popular vote. Okay, so Warner can be upset about whatever he wants to, but what I disagree with his a position that the results of the popular voteshouldn't be mentioned, that it isn't relevent. That seems to be a point you don't want to mention, because it obviously is relevent, and I think you know that. (See, I can do it too.)

I don't know what you're talking about but I recognize the tone.

Regarding appointments, in addition to Bush's pronouncements about being bi-partisan, my point was that since more people voted for the democrat, he might actually appoint a couple of democrats to the cabinet, and that was Feinstein's argument. God, even Clinton did that, and he won in 1996 by a landslide. Of course Bush can appoint who he wants, but again, the point you keep missing, is that there is nothing wrong with him being reminded he is a minority president and that his nominations might reflect that. What is the big deal about that?

It's not your business, it's his. He won the office and he doesn't have to answer to a closet committee of Dem's who're going to second guess everything he does. That's the role of congress, isn't it?

Tell me this, Joe, if Gore had won, if Sandra Day Oconnor wasn't interested in retiring this year and the Supreme Court had ruled in Gore's favour, would you be telling Gore the same thing? No? Why not? Because in that case he actually would have been the popular vote winner, albeit by a razor's edge? Big fucking deal, they fought their fight, same rules for everyone, Gore lost, the game's over. All the close this and close that is for congress. Bush will be the president simplicitur, there is no other kind.

Polls show the majority of americans almost by two thirds favor eliminating the Electoral College, Jim, so it isn't just an interesting curio to talk about, and I think if you read what I said, it was that it ought to be debated, and I don't know how you do that if you don't talk about it, and cite the problems with the current election, with the popular vote results being a primary one, and so if you agree with Warner, everyone would pretend like it never happened. Not a good idea. Even if we end of keeping the system, which was, by the way, instituted to protect slave states, a condition that no longer is needed.

Well if it's so unpopular it shouldn't be hard to change, should it? Let's see what happens but I'm not holding my breath. Meanwhile, this is the system and the electorl college issue stands alone independent of Bush's presidency.

I used 'winner' in quotes because it remains to be seen who actually 'won', even though Bush is President. The votes in Florida will be counted over the next few weeks, at which time I may remove the quotation marks.

You prove my point in spades.

I didn't vote for Nader, Jim, but I would suggest that most people who did do 'give a fuck' about who is President.

That's not what I was talking about. I'm saying that Nader himself publically indicated that it didn't matter between the two. Again, am I wrong?

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Date: Tues, Jan 02, 2001 at 01:40:56 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: No, you Come on!
Message:
Jim:

Joe says: Of course Bush can appoint who he wants, but again, the point you keep missing, is that there is nothing wrong with him being reminded he is a minority president and that his nominations might reflect that. What is the big deal about that?

Jim responds: It's not your business, it's his. He won the office and he doesn't have to answer to a closet committee of Dem's who're going to second guess everything he does. That's the role of congress, isn't it?

Personally, I think we ought to do everything possible to assure GWB that he's a majority President and that he has a duty to act as though he is. Convince him that he doesn't need to listen to anyone but his own yes men, and that his judgment is infallible. In fact, I think he ought to start planning a coronation... and then take a long, well deserved, nap.

--Scott '2002' T.

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Date: Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 21:22:22 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Jim
Subject: Jim, one day we will endure OT on the Queen
Message:
No doubt that you and the other Commonwealthers will get your chance to overrun this American based Forum with your OT discussions on your Queen. So, give us a break!

Jim said:The initial discussions were an off-topic indulgence and yet, over a few weeks, that trickle became a river and the forum lost its focus.

Yes, and reports from our Intelligence Counter Units (ICU) indicates that during that lack of vigilance Maharaji was able to capture the hearts and minds of countless thousands of innocent people throughout the world. He saw the opportunity, gave three quick Knowledge sessions, two darshan lines and he raked in 2.3 million dollars less the cost of jet fuel.

We need to elect a Captain of the Guard or an Officer of the Day to keep us on guard here at the front. We can't let this happen again - too much is at stake!

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Date: Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 21:56:24 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Jim, one day we will endure OT on the Queen
Message:
Do you have any idea just how many wavering premies were hospitalized because of those threads? Those same OT threads that we all see every day and think nothing about stopping and posting in, they can be deadly, Rog. I've seen it happen. I saw it happen in Korea. It wasn't pretty. We lost a lot of good men, Rog. We can't let it happen again.
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Date: Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 20:03:48 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Jim
Subject: Jim, let's not forget your OT on Princess Di
Message:
Not too many people were around in those days, but when Princess Di met her fate in that tunnel in Paris you went off for weeks and weeks about how you missed her so much and what a wonderful person she was and how on your trip to London you stood outside of Buckingham Palace for 14 hours and how you skipped a final exam in law school to see the wedding on TV.

Do you have any idea how many innocents got gobbled up by Maharaji because of your obsession?

Sheesh!

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Date: Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 21:42:45 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Hey, that's different!
Message:
She really was beautiful, Roger, and I wanted everyone to know just how special she was. And it wasn't juswt a physical thing either. She used to go to hospitals. But then you already know that. And why? Because I took the time to share all that with you back then. Did it take 'weeks and weeks'? Whatever, Rog. She was just so beautiful.
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Date: Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 21:45:53 (GMT)
From: Owl
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Jim, one day we will endure OT on the Queen
Message:
LOL

ROTFL

.

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Date: Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 20:54:57 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Joe
Subject: The law of the land trumps the will of the people
Message:
'The law of the land trumps the will of the people'

I saw that on a sign held by a pro-Bush demonstrator on the day after the Supreme Court stopped the counting.

It's hard to believe that a pro-Bush Republican would say such a thing because what is it really saying?

To me it says, 'We are fascists and we have laws that override the democratic majority will of the people.'

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 02:44:35 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: The lay of the land trumps the will of the people
Message:
Roger:

Well, I don't think that the majority is necessarily the source of all wisdom... but in the case of an election it's kind of strange to argue that the will of the people is irrelevant. And in the end everything comes down to public opion, including the law itself. There was that 18th Constitutional Amendment that was repealed in 1933, for instance. Though it may take time the will of the people eventually trumps the law, by changing it.

--Scott

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Date: Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 05:10:02 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: And Feinstein has one too
Message:
Jim:

What does it matter that Gore won the popular vote?

It matters because it irritates the hell out of Republicans. If it genuinely didn't matter, it wouldn't bother them. Personally I think the Ds ought to rub salt in that wound every chance they get.

And if it doesn't matter that the person occupying the most powerful office on the planet got there after having received neither the balance of legitimately cast votes in the country, or by state, then I can't see what argument one can possibly make that Maharaji doesn't deserve to be where he is, and have what he has. If *how* a person got to be in a position of power doesn't matter, then what does?

One could acquire legitimacy after having ascended to an office, I imagine, so our fair guru has fallen off both ends of the ass. We'll have to wait to see if Bush is similarly qualified. Legitimacy, BTW, is not a legal but a social and cultural concept. The Rs don't much like that idea either. For some strange reason they want to equate 'legitimate' with 'legal.' I wonder why?

(Obligatory topic relevance.)

--Scott

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Date: Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 20:28:44 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: And Feinstein has one too
Message:
It matters because it irritates the hell out of Republicans. If it genuinely didn't matter, it wouldn't bother them.

I think anyone would be pissed off if they were accused of stealing the election. Really, this is such bullshit. The same anomly could have worked in the opposite direction. No one set it up. It's the system that allows this anomoly which can, and has once again surfaced in close elections. It really is nothing more than being spoilsports. (Again, I'm not talking about the problems in Florida but the basic concept that the overall winner doesn't have to have the majority popular vote).

And if it doesn't matter that the person occupying the most powerful office on the planet got there after having received neither the balance of legitimately cast votes in the country, or by state, then I can't see what argument one can possibly make that Maharaji doesn't deserve to be where he is, and have what he has. If *how* a person got to be in a position of power doesn't matter, then what does?

Sorry, I thought that Bush did win by the only tally that counts, the electoral college. Did I miss something?

And Scott, the Maharaji analogy is a little forced, don't you think? There is no real 'office' of Lord of the Universe.

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Date: Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 18:50:36 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: And Feinstein has one too
Message:
Jim:

You still aren't getting the point about social legitimacy, which in the last analysis may be the only kind that counts. This is politics, not soccer. Bush gets to be President, but the social legitimacy of his holding that office is under a cloud because of two factors: the nationwide popular vote, which went against him; and the 'real' vote in Florida, which would have gone against him (and against his electoral win) had the votes been counted with precision. These are all perfectly valid points for the Democrats to make, though they won't change the outcome of the election. They will give the Democrats cover should they oppose some judicial nominations down the road, and will definitely play a role in the 2002 and 2004 elections. Better yet, there's almost no defense available to the Republicans. All they can do is say 'It doesn't matter;' when everyone knows it does. Again, this is politics and the game really doesn't end after the results of one election are tallied. The Republicans can easily win this battle and lose the war.

And the issue of legitimacy (or 'legitimation' to use the alternative social science term) is extremely relevant to Maharaji. In fact, it may well be the only issue. There doesn't have to be a formal office involved. That's window dressing. I got involved in this forum because I'm interested in the issue of 'charismatic legitimacy'-- when it's good, when it's bad, and how to know the difference. That's still my concern. And to the extent that Maha's claim to authority rests on the traditions of Rhadasaomi, then his 'legitimacy' is not even charismatic, it's just 'traditional.' Patrick Wilson's contributions are valuable in that context. So, how a person gets to be in a position of power and influence can be 'charismatic,' 'traditional,' or 'legal/rational;' and probably some combination of all three.

And finally, the legitimacy of the legal/rational rules themselves can be undermined if the outcome is consistently viewed as unfair. I think that's what's going on here, with the Bush election. I think this stuff is at least as relevant as the Dawkins material, especially in the sense that Dawkins is viewed as a general attack on religion or spirituality. For instance, one can accept the principle of spirituality, and yet regard Maha as illegitimate. In fact, I think you'd have to. So, in that context the issue of whether Catholicism is legitimate is pretty much off topic. Fine with me though. There's plenty of politics in religion, and plenty of religion in politics. If you stick exclusively to one or the other you're bound to end up with a distorted picture.

BTW, guess who the Democrats (both leaders and rank and file) now consider the leader of the Democratic Party? Yup, Monica's boyfriend. No formal office is associated with that position. It rests entirely on social legitimacy. The only ex-president who ever played a similar role was Teddy Roosevelt.

--Scott

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Date: Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 20:42:48 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: No way, Scott
Message:
Although Florida does arguably cast a pall on Bush' victory, the electoral college vs. popular vote issue is nothing more than a curiosity, at this point. Any very close presidential election could produce this discrepancy, it could have gone exactly the other way and whatever. Those are the rules of engagement. If you don't like them, change your constitution. (While you're at it, get rid of the Right to Bear Arms, will ya'? It bothers me.) But when the Republicans say 'it doesn't matter', they're right. Bush will be president every bit as much as if he'd won by a landslide. That's what photo-finishes are all about. You still get a winner and in this case that's Bush.

By the way, I would ahve voted Democratic, if I'd been there.

The relevance to Maharaji is so superficial it's funny. That both the president and the cult leader have power is of little interest and that's the only posible tie between the two. I can't believe you're trying to find some way to seriously discuss them in the same breath. Anyway, that sure wasn't what was happening during the long political discussions you guys had here. You talked politics for politics sake because that's what your interest was. The 'Maharaji factor' was then, as now, non-existent in any meaningful sense.

And finally, the legitimacy of the legal/rational rules themselves can be undermined if the outcome is consistently viewed as unfair. I think that's what's going on here, with the Bush election. I think this stuff is at least as relevant as the Dawkins material, especially in the sense that Dawkins is viewed as a general attack on religion or spirituality. For instance, one can accept the principle of spirituality, and yet regard Maha as illegitimate. In fact, I think you'd have to. So, in that context the issue of whether Catholicism is legitimate is pretty much off topic. Fine with me though. There's plenty of politics in religion, and plenty of religion in politics. If you stick exclusively to one or the other you're bound to end up with a distorted picture.

I'm not sure what you're saying here but I do take issue with your saying that the Bush election is 'at least as relevant as the Dawkins material'. Are you just trying to get me going here or something? That's such a bizarre notion, in my opinion. Dawkins is relevant because spirituality is relevant to Maharaji. There's a very direct, most obvious connection. Maharaji offered to show us God. Dawkins says there isn't one. THAT's relevant.

To the extent that Catholicism addresses the issues Maharaji covers (e.g. who we are, why we're here and where we're going, etc.), it, too, is relevant.

Politics, on the other hand, have, at best, only the most tangential relevance to this Hindu cult stuff, no matter how interesting you and other former cult members might find them.

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Date: Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 02:00:23 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Way, Dude.
Message:
Jim:

I still don't think you get the point about legitimacy. And if you don't get that then you won't get any of the rest of it. But to be quite honest, it doesn't bother me that the Republicans don't understand this point about legitimacy. Not understanding it means that they'll miscalculate... By assuming that the only thing that's important is the 'rules of engagement' they'll set themselves up. It's totally naive, but what the heck.

As for the other, I just don't give much of a hang about Maharaji. I think he's just a small part of a much larger problem, and one that has more to do with the nature of belief than with religion, in the narrow sense of whether God exists. You're the one who has a war going on religion. As far as I'm concerned any comprehensive belief system that poses a diagnosis and cure for the human condition constitutes a religion, whether it involves a belief in God... or a belief in godlessness. Perhaps scientific method is a way of transcending prejudice, but if so it's too narrowly defined right now. I think there are social problems for which physics has no answers, and if there is a role for science it's more in the area of sociology and economics. And the core of the thing is this business about social legitimacy, charisma, tradition, etc.

Let me be clear that I don't think the discussion about the Florida vote is all that relevant to the topic of the forum, but the general issue of legitimacy certainly is. It was my understanding that the Florida threads weren't carried into the archives, and they certainly had a larger significance for most of us than does Maharaji nowadays. Maharaji will never again have an impact on my living conditions, how much money I make, what my taxes are, whether I have adequate health care, whether I feel censored, etc. So, I'm just glad there's a little room on the forum for some of these 'real world' topics, now and then.

And seriously, if we can't understand what constitutes the social legitimacy of a politician like Bush or Reagan then I don't think we stand a prayer of ever understanding why people flock to individuals like Maharaji, whose credentials are so obviously out of order, let alone knowing what to do about someone like Hitler or Saddam Hussein or David Koresh. There's something more involved than just bad judgment.

--Scott

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Date: Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 06:21:22 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: Good points, Scott
Message:
Also, I just wanted to say, that another reason I liked the election discussion so much was that I really enjoyed talking to you about it a few weeks ago, and reading the things you had to say about it. Thanks. It really helped me deal with an otherwise very depressing situation. Have a great New Year.
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Date: Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 19:32:24 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Thanks, Joe
Message:
Joe:

Thanks for the kind words. I think this election has been something of a watershed for me. Most of my 'tolerance' for the position taken by the right has been predicated on the assumption that their position was reasoned, rather than simply prejudiced. I don't see how they can make that case any longer. It's not as much that I've discounted their arguments as that I simply lack trust in their capacity for reflection and honesty. I'm not sure that I trust many of the liberal interest groups a great deal more, but I do give them a little more latitude. By and large they don't stand to benefit quite as directly from their position, or the policies they advocate. I still think we are a very long way from Demosophia (wisdom of the people), which ought to be the goal.

And I'm really appalled at the fact that no one seems to want to hold the media accountable. They seem to get off with the all too familiar and meaningless phrase 'we made some mistakes.' I have a flash for them: They're enormously incompetent, and inadequate to serve as the information resource for a free and open society.

I've been in contact with my activist friends in OHAC and Citizen Action, and have made a number of suggestions. Some of those have been forwarded to members of the Oregon congressional delegation, with attribution. I sincerely hope someone 'gets it.' There is an unprecedented opportunity here.

BTW, I kept copies of most of my contributions to this forum, and to some of my subscribed email lists. I've written almost 150 pages of material... damn near enough for a small book! Perhaps I ought to get down to the business of writing with a little more focus.

I'm glad we are on the same page a bit more frequently than we have been... and am fairly certain that we can continue to have constructive dialogue. Have a happy New Millennium. One of the principles from Bucky Fuller's 'Operating Manual for Spaceship Earth' was that the key to longevity is to give for what you take. So, perhaps we'll see more of the coming millennium than we now imagine. And maybe we'll even find lasting love and prosperity.

--Scott

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Date: Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 16:08:14 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Good points, Scott - I agree
Message:
I agree with you, Joe - I have liked Scott's commentary a lot during this whole debacle. I have quoted him to a lot of people. Also, Scott, I have enjoyed seeing you get 'radicalized' (snicker - I'm teasing!)

Should just add that the issue with Gore winning the popular vote means Bush KNOWS that half the people in the country (at least - I assume that people who voted for Nader would have also preferred Gore) didn't want him to be president. If he were smarter, he would do SOMETHING to address the concerns of the people who did not vote for him. Instead he seems hell-bent on creating yet more division between Republicans and Democrats.

If I was a Republican senator or congressman who didn't have an absolute lock on my seat for the next elections, I'd be getting a bit angry with Bush right about now.

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Date: Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 02:02:38 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Warner's got a point
Message:
Jim,

You're probably right about the American election being better served on the AG forum. Ordinarily, I do try to stay on topic, but the extenuating circumstances of this recent election is just too tempting to indulge in, where formalities can be easily overlooked. Sorry if anybody's found it offensive, or at worst, bizzarre, but it really is a conversation grabber, and well, that is what we do on this forum, converse. It's pretty difficult to restrain yourself to certain subjects with people you've come to regard as friends. It's like the 'no politics, no religion' rule for family dinner tables. Everybody knows it's a good idea to restrain themselves, but who does?

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Date: Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 01:20:05 (GMT)
From: Owl
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Election decided by Kangaroo Supreme Court .......
Message:
Well done!


lol

Yes, it does show how not even the institution that is the United States Supreme Court is a Magical, GOD or Guru's type of supreme all knowing, (omniscient), whatever. It is made up of persons that may or may not come to a correct analysis of a situation.

Yes, as is the case for any person, Guru, Saint?, President, Pope, (M), lawyer, Judge, Mom, Dad, brother, sister, wife, husband, son, daughter, butcher, baker, and or candle stick maker.

lol


Yes, to think for us, to think for ourselves. And to make alliances as we so see fit to do when we so see fit to do so, and to sever those alliances when we also so see fit to do so.

lol

Yes, Joe...... Well done!

.

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Date: Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 02:31:49 (GMT)
From: Aussi Ji
Email: None
To: Owl
Subject: Hey !careful kangaroo is an aussi word.....
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 02:43:17 (GMT)
From: Owl
Email: None
To: Aussi Ji
Subject: 'careful kangaroo is an aussi word.......', {LOL}
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 02:47:39 (GMT)
From: Aussi Ji
Email: None
To: Owl
Subject: 'careful kangaroo is an aussi word.......', {LOL}
Message:
Hi Owl,Are you an aussi?
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Date: Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 03:22:15 (GMT)
From: Owl
Email: None
To: Aussi Ji
Subject: 'careful kangaroo is an aussi word.......', {LOL}
Message:
Hello, Aussi Ji:

I was not born in Australia and according to THE LAW, (lol), I can not call myself an aussi. (LOL) I do understand that many aussi's are willing to accept people as an aussi and allow them to refer to themselves as an aussi if they believe in the free and open mindedness that is so typical of some of the basic nature of an aussi. So in that way you may think of me as an aussi.

Goodday................

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Date: Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 07:37:53 (GMT)
From: Aussi Ji
Email: None
To: Owl
Subject: No wucken furries mate
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 08:25:56 (GMT)
From: Owl
Email: None
To: Aussi Ji
Subject: No wucken furries mate
Message:
Same to you.

lol

.

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Date: Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 01:33:43 (GMT)
From: Oliver
Email: None
To: Owl
Subject: Speaking of Kangaroo Supreme Courts .......
Message:
..........

Results Race 1 Caulfield.

.......see............

Your SMH tomorrow.

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Date: Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 02:42:50 (GMT)
From: Aussi Ji
Email: None
To: Oliver
Subject: Speaking of Kangaroo Supreme Courts .......
Message:
G'Day Oliver,It looks like a good day for the daily double errr ken. And they're racing--It is matchsticks burning up the straight and chewing gum sticking to the inside rails,but no here comes scissors cutting across the field..blah blah oh no here comes cult leader screwing the rest of the field
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Date: Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 06:25:20 (GMT)
From: Oliver
Email: None
To: Aussi Ji
Subject: Blah, blah, blah. (NT)
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 02:04:22 (GMT)
From: Owl
Email: None
To: Oliver
Subject: Speaking of ?????????.............................
Message:
You said:


..........
Results Race 1 Caulfield.

.......see............

Your SMH tomorrow.

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

I have heard of, Caulfield, MO Zip code: 65626

?????????, I am not sure of what you are trying to say?

Then, you say, “(... see ... ) Your SMH tomorrow.”


Again, I do not no what you are meaning by what you have put forth, and I look forward to you explaining if you will.

.

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Date: Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 02:49:13 (GMT)
From: Oliver
Email: None
To: Owl
Subject: Speaking of ?? ? Sorry, wrong file. :))
Message:
The Registrar
Mental Health Review Tribunal
P.O. Box 2019,
BORONIA PARK. NSW 2111

Your Reference: C 3317

Dear Sir,
Thank you for your letter dated Tuesday, 1st August, 2000.
I will be attending Ryde CHC on Thursday, 17th August, 2000 for the review of my Community Treatment Order.
I read with interest that my mental health worker, by whom I assume you refer to my case manager Mr Christopher Hay, has made an application to the Tribunal for a further CTO for myself. I would appreciate it if you could advise me of his grounds for making such an application. Has there been a breach of the order by myself? Have I not been meeting the aims of the treatment plan, whatever they are? Am I, as often is the case for us poor simple clients of the mental health service, being treated like a mushroom again?
I have been diagnosed with a mental illness since 1980 and I admit I do have a reputation for one who is at times reluctant to take medication. This problem stems from the beginning when I was incorrectly diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic and medicated accordingly. Horrifying times, which did not end until I was correctly diagnosed as manic depressive some three years later. So it’s hardly surprising that I do not think too highly of prescribed medication.
I have had too many admissions I know, but on the other hand there was a period of five years where not one admission occurred, nor did I take medication. This gives me hope that one day I will be able to live with my disorder successfully, without the medication or constant vigilance of any type of health organisation. But for the moment I have taken the tablets religiously since my last discharge. So what’s the problem? Why an extension of the CTO?
I ask these questions now because I have found my appearances before the Tribunal not unlike a kangaroo court. The matter is worked out between the medical people and the Tribunal, without much notice at all of what the patient wants, needs, or says.
Thank you again for your letter and I look forward to your early reply to mine.

Yours faithfully.

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Date: Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 03:09:21 (GMT)
From: Owl
Email: None
To: Oliver
Subject: Speaking of ?? ? Sorry, wrong file. :)), {?WHAT??}
Message:
You say:

'
The Registrar
Mental Health Review Tribunal
P.O. Box 2019,
BORONIA PARK. NSW 2111
Your Reference: C 3317

Dear Sir,
Thank you for your letter dated Tuesday, 1st August, 2000.
I will be attending Ryde CHC on Thursday, 17th August, 2000 for the review of my Community Treatment Order.
I read with interest that my.......

'

////////////////////////////////////////////
????????????????????????????????????????????


I have no Idea from your POST, what you are talking about???

I guess you may be trying to demonstrate that that is referred to as a Kangaroo Court.

Have a nice day...........

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Date: Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 05:20:22 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Owl
Subject: Kangaroospeak
Message:
Owl:

As I sit here watching the film 'How I Won the War,' with John Lennon, the various submissions by Aussi Ji, Oliver and yourself all make perfect sense. Well, maybe not perfect...

I can't figure out what the blue and yellow soldiers were all about.

--Scott

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Date: Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 07:00:27 (GMT)
From: Owl
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: Kangaroospeak
Message:
It's called delineation.

.

lol

.

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Date: Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 07:48:14 (GMT)
From: Aussi Ji
Email: None
To: everyone
Subject: Kangaroos
Message:
Sounds to me like someone has a kangaroo or two loose in the top paddock,or someone is a sandwich short of a picnic or has a screw loose somewhere.Only having you on please don't take offence.Can SOMEONE TELL ME WHAT THE BLOODY HELL LOL IS?
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Date: Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 08:57:53 (GMT)
From: Owl
Email: None
To: Aussi Ji
Subject: Kangaroos
Message:
You say: 'SOMEONE TELL ME WHAT THE BLOODY HELL LOL IS?'

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Chill..... You there Down Under...........

LOL

As I said above a few posts higher up, same to you.

lol

And yes, only having you on please don't take offence. {LOL}

And (lol), [ lol = laughing out loud ].

lol


It usually is better to ask what something means if you are not sure of what they are saying before you respond to it.

Such as what does lol mean..........

Especially when it is part of what is being said and might change the meaning of what is meant...........


It would be like wanting to go on a picnic, but because you were, a sandwich short of a picnic, you did not make it!

LOL, lol, and lol

.

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Date: Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 23:12:23 (GMT)
From: Aussi Ji
Email: None
To: Owl
Subject: Kangaroos
Message:
G'Day Owl,Thank you muchly for the clarification,it was a real HOOT (Lol) Aussi Ji
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Date: Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 19:40:42 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Owl
Subject: Kangaroos
Message:
Aussi Ji & Owl:

And then there's ROTFLMAO (rolling on the floor laughing my ass off). The IRC chat software at POWWOW, which turns typed text into speech, has the capacity to recognize and interpret most of these standard abbreviations. It can lead to some rather funny sound effects.

-Scott

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Date: Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 21:38:54 (GMT)
From: Owl
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: Kangaroos
Message:
Hi, Scott T.

You did not need to explain this to me as I was the one who put this forward, (lol), but yes for the edification of Aussi Ji, and others, as well as your own amusement and others, it is funny.

lol

Owl

.

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Date: Fri, Dec 29, 2000 at 17:20:02 (GMT)
From: The Litmus Test (OT)
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: BBC Radio...... as I tape.
Message:
Anyone else listening?

It's a complete cak!

Oliver.
ps. Just woke up.

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Date: Fri, Dec 29, 2000 at 18:35:47 (GMT)
From: Oliver
Email: None
To: ALL
Subject: I was listening to 'Just a minute'....(OT),
Message:
...anyone remember that?

And I assume these episodes are repeats.

Anyone out there work for the BBC?

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Date: Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 01:42:47 (GMT)
From: Des Perado.
Email: hoowantz2No@artzole.com
To: Oliver
Subject: I was listening to 'Just a minute'....(OT),
Message:
No was the stern, silent reply.
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Date: Wed, Dec 27, 2000 at 19:08:04 (GMT)
From: Oliver
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: End of the Universe. (OT)
Message:
I have been looking for a copy of Asimov's book, 'The End Of The Universe' since reading a friends copy about 45 times 20 years or so ago. It is now out of print.

Unfortunately, I lost it and would like to read it again, and then give it to my old, old friend who I call 'Dark One.'

Anyone got any ideas?

Oliver.

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Date: Wed, Dec 27, 2000 at 23:37:26 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Oliver
Subject: The Restaurant at the End of the Universe closed..
Message:
It lacked atmosphere.
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Date: Thurs, Dec 28, 2000 at 05:16:20 (GMT)
From: Oliver
Email: None
To: All
Subject: But the restuarant in the middle of nowhere.....
Message:
...is still cooking up a storm.

(Check it out when your in Sydney Nigel. At the back of Macquarie Uni).

Salam, do you ever get out from under the table long enough to be able to do lunch?

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Date: Wed, Dec 27, 2000 at 20:45:48 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Oliver
Subject: End of the Universe. (OT)
Message:
Oliver:

Try Powell's. If they don't have it, no one does.

http://www.powells.com/

--Scott

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Date: Wed, Dec 27, 2000 at 19:38:43 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Oliver
Subject: End of the Universe. (OT)
Message:
Do a search online. I've found 2 (out of print) used books I was looking that way at a fraction of the original price. Just punch in the title/author and surf.
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Date: Wed, Dec 27, 2000 at 19:48:04 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Oliver
Subject: PS - a link (OT)
Message:
http://www.clark.net/pub/edseiler/WWW/asimov_home_page.html

There's a section there called 'Sources for Obtaining Asimov's Books.'

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Date: Wed, Dec 27, 2000 at 21:54:17 (GMT)
From: Oliver
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: Thanks yaw'll........[(OT)-nt]
Message:
nt.
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Date: Wed, Dec 27, 2000 at 18:12:42 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Helen/Gerry-ot fiberm...
Message:
Gerry, We are in the eastern time zone and again, your friend is welcome. You got the phone number from below?

Helen, You can email Mary at
bburke@rocketmail.com
So can Gerry's friend of course!

She has more to the story. By the way, stay clear of the fish oils as the manufacturing is not what you want.
The other essential oils are given a much better green light by those that investigate the matter.

I mentioned what I told you about depression to her and she said
she privately agrees that her depression has been seemingly been lifted by the oils and diet. However, she said that factors can
remain that lend themselves to depression type feelings but
there seems to be a definate bottom much closer to the surface now and there is no greased slide there anymore that carries
you to the previous experience.

The 'greased slide' is my terminology not hers.
The books that claimed that essential oils or a lack thereof
contributes directly to a depression condition are fine research books. I think we can trust the sources enough to try the
reccomendation. If it helps a little, thats a plus!

To blame this on a mental attitude is just wrong.
Fibermayalgia of course wears you down and is a dreadful problem which certainly feeds any depression.
If she has anything of use to say in the email, that is great because I wish you the best.

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Date: Wed, Dec 27, 2000 at 19:49:31 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: Helen/Gerry-ot fiberm...
Message:
I don't blame physical realities on mental conditions, just wanted to clarify that. I think that there is an anxiety cycle/distress cycle that is part of being in chronic pain.being in pain is depressing, no doubt about it. I think the physical reality needs to be addressed but then the chronic anxiety also needs to be addressed. I'm glad that in clearing up one, your wife was able to have the other cleared up as well--fantastic!

Essential oils are necessary for hormone production, so I completely agree with you about how they contribute to a feeling of well-being. Does your wife use primrose oil rather than fish oils? I'll email her for sure!
Thanks!

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Date: Thurs, Dec 28, 2000 at 10:07:50 (GMT)
From: janet of venice
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: a new water to try-i did (OT) fibro
Message:
my son brought me this new water thats being sold now. its being molecularly changed so as to absorb mega effectively. theres nothing in it but water and oxygen. it was researched for fibro

its called Penta-hydrate

they have a website at
hydrateforlife.com

the site is a little screwy but you can get all the info if you keep trying different pages of it.

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Date: Thurs, Dec 28, 2000 at 23:03:55 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: janet of venice
Subject: thanks, I will go there (website) now! (nt)
Message:
hfjahsfkkgjkflash
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Date: Wed, Dec 27, 2000 at 10:50:08 (GMT)
From: Owl
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: If an open letter does get placed in Malibu or ???
Message:
If an OPEN LETTER is put forth I hope that instead of what I have seen before which was,
as a way to addressing him, was the following:

Dear Mr. Rawat a.k.a. Maharaji,


That instead it might be:

Dear Mr. Rawat a.k.a. Maharaji, a.k.a. Guru Maharaj Ji, a.k.a. Saint ^ Maharaj, a.k.a. Jerk

. lol

The a.k.a. that I would really like it to be known and exposed to the light, which is as seen by many, (lol), to have been unconscionably and recklessly given was that of, Saint Ji Maharaji, that one that he gave HIMSELF, among others!

This, “Saint * Maharaj”, it may be Saint Ji Maharaji, it is his actual signature that I am looking at on this CARD that I have. This should be brought to light with this other stuff that needs to be brought to light.

As I remember he, (M), signed it in December, I do not recall the year at the moment, a Holiday type card, (maybe I should say Holy Day type card), [I have heard that less then 100 were ever signed and given out], I had one given to me as directed by Guru Maharaj Ji, soon after a face to face with him along with about 20 others, who were there as well and some more of these CARDS were given to them as well, at his home, in the yard at his home that night, I think it was the 24th or 25 of December at night, a long long story for another time maybe, but this CARD was signed by (M) and it was signed Saint * Maharaj, I STILL HAVE IT. Also the CARD has an OFFICALLY STAMPED on the front, STAMP, that is printed, it looks like an Official Seal type thing, that says, THE SEAL OF DIVINE LIGHT MISSION ‘ INTERNATIONAL, this is typed in a circle. The CARD says the following under which he signed as I have said, Saint * Maharaj, (the, (*), I put here is in place of maybe, “Ji” or whatever it was that he scribed there), on the CARD he had had printed the following:

Unto Thee O Lord
We unfold
Unto Thee O Lord
We surrender
For
From Thee we come
And unto You
My Lord
Let me come
Back to you, home again.

Blessings,

{His Signature as Saint * Maharaj} or Saint Ji Mararaj Ji, it’s a signature………

Well, take from it what you will………………..

I think that this helps paint an interesting picture…………………….

For fair use please see below……………


saint (sant)
n. Abbr. S., St.
a. Theology. A person officially recognized, especially by canonization, as being entitled to public veneration and capable of interceding for people on earth.
b. A person who has died and gone to heaven.
c. Saint. A member of any of various religious groups, especially a Latter-Day Saint.
1. An extremely virtuous person.
v. tr. saint·ed, saint·ing, saints.
To name, recognize, or venerate as a saint; canonize.
[Middle English from Old French from Late Latin sanctus, from Latin holy, past participle of sancre, to consecrate; see sak- in Indo-European Roots.]

.
.

I thank so many of you for being, or should I be super cautious and say I hopefully thank so many of you for being on the side of the ones that remind me of the following:

It is so beautiful sometimes to watch the Sun rise and obliterate the darkness that was, but an absence of the Suns light.

All the BEST,

Owl


P.S.

O’Yes, please let us not forget his Commandments, like officially printed out, (lol), four at my last count,

1. Do not put off until tomorrow what you can do today
2. Constantly meditate and remember Holy Name
3. Leave no room for doubt in your mind
4. Never delay in attending Satsang


Can you believe this? And now I leave you one last quote from, {M}, “And to have faith in Guru Maharaj Ji, and to believe Guru Maharaj Ji, and to have that devotion towards Guru Maharaj Ji, is to me the most ultimate experience of this Knowledge.”

Please, lets get this self professed Saint, this self professed Guru Maharaj Ji, this, {M}, lets get him accounting for his harmful acts to put it so very very mildly.

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Date: Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 10:41:21 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Owl
Subject: Actually it was probably signed
Message:
as Sant Ji Maharaj
...and..
there were actually 5 commandments, the 5th one being

Always have faith in God.

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Date: Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 22:19:36 (GMT)
From: Owl
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: Actually it was probably signed....{See next Post}
Message:
Yes, as I have stated, as I guessed you missed it, I corrected that in the next Post down from the Top Post, it was signed, as Sant :: Marmaraj

In English and not Hindi, Saint Mahahraj Ji

What an egotistically self-serving thing for himself to use.

Also, the Commandments, yes I did forget to put down number (4) when I was copying it from the paper that was actually giving out at my Knowledge Session, it is as follows, as I stated before, but now with the inclusion of number four.
.............................................................


O’Yes, please let us not forget his Commandments, like officially printed out, (lol), four at my last count,

{It should of said five at my last count} (lol)


1. Do not put off until tomorrow what you can do today
2. Constantly meditate and remember Holy Name
3. Leave no room for doubt in your mind
4. Always have faith in God
5. Never delay in attending Satsang

.............................................................

Well, so much for that...........

******************************************
******************************************
******************************************

Happy new Millennium

Owl

.

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Date: Wed, Dec 27, 2000 at 11:10:57 (GMT)
From: In the Know
Email: None
To: Owl
Subject: If an open letter does get placed in Malibu or ???
Message:
Typo . Correction ..SANT (Hindi)
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Date: Wed, Dec 27, 2000 at 12:13:17 (GMT)
From: Owl
Email: None
To: In the Know
Subject: If an open letter; TYPO Correction ..SANT (Hindi)
Message:
Thank you, yes in (Hindi) the word Saint is spelled Sant.

.
.
.On the Internet I see many times that that Hindi spelling for Saint is as you say, spelled as Sant.

So again thank you for the spelling update.

So, with this clearer understanding that Sant is Hindi for, the English word Saint, yes, Sant Ji Maharaj or Saint Ji Maharaji

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

So with this more clarified now, ( thank you very much ), the point is, is that the word Saint, (Sant in Hindi) is what I said above. In the POST:


[ If an open letter does get placed in Malibu or ??? ]

.

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Date: Wed, Dec 27, 2000 at 14:52:37 (GMT)
From: Bazza
Email: bshaw8@bellsouth.net
To: Owl
Subject: So go for it 'Owl'
Message:
Write a letter, sign your name to it and have it published in a popular newspaper. What's the problem?
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Date: Thurs, Dec 28, 2000 at 03:02:27 (GMT)
From: Owl
Email: None
To: Bazza
Subject: So go for it 'Owl'
Message:
Did someone upset you?

Whatever.


As I put forward the idea of what was to be said in addressing, (M), would it be Dear M, or Maharaji, or Saint Maharaj Ji, or Jerk, or a combination, or all of the above, or something different.

Not the belief that there should be individuals putting out so called open letters too (M), as it seems you would like to see done, {if you want to do that go ahead dude}. If on the other hand you feel like I do at this time, as I have put forward that, yes, there should be a coalition of sponsors who put this out, as recent previous posts refers to, which you may recall if you have been paying attention here, and is from where I start my comments from, from that that was recently posted.

Well maybe that might satisfy you and maybe it will not, that’s for you to deal with, my point has been made.


And again, for the difficult to get through people, I feel it best at this time to have a coalition of supporters for the addressing by, M, to the wrongs that he has and is doing be the preferred method of presenting an Open Letter in a News Paper at this time.

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Date: Thurs, Dec 28, 2000 at 06:05:56 (GMT)
From: Bazza
Email: None
To: Owl
Subject: This isn't a game for me
Message:
First of all, I'm not upset in the least.

The 23 years I spent believing maharaji was a divine being, and that I was somehow on a special path trod only by the priveleged few, was totally real for me. So was the gut-wrenching realization that I had wasted half my life pursuing a dream spun by this person.

So when I came to that realization I wrote him an email, signed my own name to it (because he does know who I am) then posted a copy of it here for all to see.

That was real. That was not playing some stupid mind-fuck game with words.

Now how about yourself? Is this real for you or is it just a game? I mean, what is all that babble above supposed to be about? Some kind of intellectual play with words and grammar? Sounds like something straight out of Dickens.

a coalition of supporters for the addressing by, M, to the wrongs that he has and is doing be the preferred method of presenting an Open Letter in a News Paper at this time

That's all well and dandy, but you know what, a much more effective method is for you to tell him who you are, what you feel he has done to screw up your life and asking how he intends to make it up to you. Simple, direct, powerful.

See I've said it before and I'll say it until people like you are sick to death of it.....if you cannot stand behind your words and make them real by letting maharaji and the honchos at EV know who you are, then your words have no power, no meaning, no effect.

Do you think EV or ANYBODY would have given a crap about all the things Mike Dettmers has said, had he signed his posts 'The Owl' or 'Statute of Limitations' or 'Catweasel'? Of course not. So explain to me why I or anybody here or anybody at EV should take a blind bit of notice of what YOU say? And if thats the case, why do you even bother?

Unless its just a game to you.

bazza: alias for Barry Shaw

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Date: Thurs, Dec 28, 2000 at 11:43:16 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Bazza
Subject: Personal post to Bazza
Message:
Barry,

I lived in Leeds and Manchester ashrams during 78-79. I think we met. My name then was Eddie Fisher.

Regards
Jethro

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Date: Thurs, Dec 28, 2000 at 18:38:54 (GMT)
From: Bazza
Email: bshaw8@bellsouth.net
To: Jethro
Subject: Personal post to Bazza
Message:
Man I thought you were the famous Jethro Tull.
Hey Eddie, I bet we have quite a few common memories, why don't you email me sometime and we'll throw names and places at each other. You're not related to the delightful Sally Fisher (from Leeds) are you?

cheers

barry

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Date: Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 06:09:24 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: jed53@hotmail.com
To: Bazza
Subject: Personal post to Bazza
Message:
I'm not related to Sally although I knew her and all the Cainers including both Jon's parents.
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Date: Thurs, Dec 28, 2000 at 18:47:56 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Bazza
Subject: Sally Fisher as in Sally Fisher-Cainer?
Message:
You're not talking about Daniel's wife, are you? Daniel and Sally were my roommates when I first moved to L.A. She was great. Very pretty, lots of fun. Same?
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Date: Thurs, Dec 28, 2000 at 19:25:03 (GMT)
From: Bazza
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Sally Fisher as in Sally Fisher-Cainer?Yup
Message:
Sally is (was? who knows now right?) a dear friend and a very talented artist. I was just one of many ashram blokes who fell in love secretly......

Daniels a nice fella too, good musician, shame his brother's an arsehole. Jonathen and I have a history, which I won't go into here for legal reasons, but you can call me on it.

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Date: Thurs, Dec 28, 2000 at 07:34:00 (GMT)
From: Owl
Email: None
To: Bazza
Subject: This isn't the way I want things for me, you say?
Message:
You say: 'if you cannot stand behind your words and make them real by letting maharaji and the honchos at EV know who you are, then your words have no power, no meaning, no effect.'

lol

It seems that it sure has affected you, (lol), and as far as it having an affect on others, well I think it does, and if you do not, well, that is just the trip that you are on.

lol

And I do not know who, Catweasel is, as you seem to like to put forth innuendo with an obsession to minimize and trivialize myself and others that do not adhere to your concept of the appropriate way of communicating with whomever, again that is your problem dude, as it is your problem for the 23 years badge of, look at what I did.....among other things you say, 'So when I came to that realization I wrote him an email, signed my own name to it (because he does know who I am) then posted a copy of it here for all to see.', well hip hip hop hop for you, you take that also as some sort of, (bazza: alias for Barry Shaw), RULES by which all must proceed by, IT IS NOT, and not to say that I also may have lettered M, but that is for me to say or not to say, if I so choose to do so, and not to be REQUIRED by you into having to do so!

So be not so berserk in your need to see that one who attempts to say M is a jerk and worse does so in a way that does not meet your peculiar and or unique ways of doing what you do, what ever that may be.

lol

And yes, you who say, 'That was not playing some stupid mind-fuck game with words.' You are the one who is coming across as a, (well we will just let that dangle out there.....)

lol


Let it be, for there will come an answer...........

It seems strange that one who professes a nonalignment with M, would be trying to minimize and trivialize and rip apart someone else that is putting forth words that are also nonaligned with M, but if it is your nature or it is your cause to be and act in your bizarre manner, well that is the way you are.

But do not dictate to me or others your beliefs as to the way in which one must speak and or address whomever.

lol

I suggest you welcome all that wish to express their displeasure with M, no matter what linguistic form that might take, [{( GET IT! )}]

.

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Date: Thurs, Dec 28, 2000 at 18:49:27 (GMT)
From: Bazza
Email: None
To: Owl
Subject: Jeez I'm talking to a friggin Owl !!
Message:
Can't believe it.

OK I'm done, couldn't give a hoot. LOL

Bloody chat rooms, why do I bother?

LOL

///////////////////////////

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Date: Fri, Dec 29, 2000 at 04:25:22 (GMT)
From: Owl
Email: None
To: Bazza
Subject: You say, 'Jeez I'm talking to a friggin Owl !!'
Message:
You said, 'Jeez I'm talking to a friggin Owl !!'

I understand your, {temper and or MIND SET}, in the need you have to refer to my penname of Owl, as, 'friggin Owl !!', as you felt the need to yell !!

But, for the record, it is, Owl, just that by itself, Owl.

lol


Owl

.

Nice to hear you say, 'OK I'm done', I hope that you reflect on the mistakes of the past and move on to having M answer for his harmful actions.

.

All the BEST

.

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Date: Fri, Dec 29, 2000 at 01:55:48 (GMT)
From: Disculta
Email: None
To: Bazza
Subject: Hey Bazza old buddy...
Message:
Remember, when the mosh pit does you in, there's always the 'mush pot' - my new name for you know where. See ya there.

Love Disculta who is also anonymous and was never married to you

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Date: Thurs, Dec 28, 2000 at 11:47:17 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Owl
Subject: Why don't you just explain to Bazza
Message:
why you use a nick-name?

Regards jethro

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Date: Fri, Dec 29, 2000 at 04:06:55 (GMT)
From: Owl
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: Why don't you just explain to Bazza, why you use a
Message:
From you:

Date: Thurs, Dec 28, 2000 at 03:47:17
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Owl
Subject: Why don't you just explain to Bazza
Message:
why you use a nick-name?
Regards jethro

/////////////////////////////////////////////

You said, 'Why don't you just explain to Bazza, why you use a nick-name?' Regards jethro

/////////////

This you put this down in a somewhat unique fashion, that being that on the Subject line you have, 'Why don't you just explain to Bazza', and then that is followed by, 'why you use a nick-name?', and then your, 'Regards jethro'


Well, first of all hello, if you would more closely look at what he has said, you will not find the question of why do you use a nick-name in his verbiage to me.

Now, so as to squash any notion that may have been implied by you that he has asked, (why do I use a nick-name), as you have put it, ......... I reply that, HE HAS NOT.

Not that you have maliciously put forth the truncated sentence as described above, that may or may not be construed as two separate questions, that may give rise to an improper taking, (of something that was never said), that it is a given, (WHICH IT IS NOT), that he has asked me the question that you now put forth, that being, 'why don't you just explain to Bazza, why you use a nick-name', which, HE NEVER DID.

Now, as to your implied question as to my addressing the reasoning for my use of a penname, ( I will use my term here, penname, instead of what you referred to as a nick-name), I have stated my reasoning on that, and to reiterate what I said was, {“as far as it having an affect on others, well I think it does”}, and to add to that I also said, {“I suggest you welcome all that wish to express their displeasure with M, no matter what linguistic form that might take, [{( GET IT! )}]}”, so I, say to you now, now that you have hopefully comprehended it this time, now that I have reiterate it, the following.

I could say a word to the wise should be sufficient. And I could say casting pearls before swine is a waist of time. And I could say, well I shan’t go on.....

I will leave you now with my thinking that this has been a real HOOT, { HOOT HOOT }.

lol

All the BEST

.

And on a more serious note, I do hold out my hand to you and everyone who wants to see that M is held accountable for his harmful actions.

Again, all the BEST

.

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Date: Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 10:29:02 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Owl
Subject: Hey OWL, are you a clerk in the
Message:
British Legal system.

Regards Jethro

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Date: Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 22:59:00 (GMT)
From: Owl
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: You say, 'Hey OWL, are you a clerk in the.........
Message:
Hello Jethro

I understand from your question, 'Hey OWL, are you a clerk in the................... British Legal system.'

Regards Jethro

***********************
***********************

{Now my response}: (lol), I am not at present living in England, (lol), and whether or not I am a Clerk in the British Legal system, or the Prime Minister, is not only not relevant to what has been said, but it is of a sleuthing nature, that goes to whom one is, which is the antithesis of the reasoning for using a pen name.

lol

I hope your not what Scotland Yard is putting out these days.

lol

.

Owl

.

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Date: Tues, Dec 26, 2000 at 19:53:59 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: crayggie@hotmail.com
To: Everyone
Subject: temporary email change (ot)
Message:
Sorry to use forum space to do this, but I think there may be people here trying to email me. It looks like my normal email account ('fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk') may have been suspended for Christmas. Could anyone trying to email me please use the above temporary address until the New Year. Thanks - and Merry Christmas or Cool Yule to everyone.

Nigel (who spent Christmas eve swimming on Bondi Beach ;)

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Date: Wed, Dec 27, 2000 at 05:16:33 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: temporary email change (ot)
Message:
Hey honey! :) How did you know I was thinking of writing! :)
Hope your having a glorious time! :)
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Wed, Dec 27, 2000 at 09:03:09 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: crayggie@hotmail.com
To: Robyn
Subject: Bondi? -I've seen better surf on the Isle of Wight
Message:
Hi Robyn,

Yeah, I'm having the best time ever (also see comments to ham). Hoping to meet a few more Aussie exes before the year is out, too. How are you keeping? Will email soon if you don't first.
Best,
Nige

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Date: Tues, Dec 26, 2000 at 20:48:04 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: And hopefully winding up the aussies
Message:
about what's gonna happen to their 'invincible' cricket team next summer.

Bondi beach eh, hope you behaved yourself with all that talent around, definitely not the west coast of clare!

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Date: Wed, Dec 27, 2000 at 08:50:19 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: crayggie@hotmail.com
To: ham
Subject: And hopefully winding up the aussies
Message:
The Aussies are indeed talented and I'm behaving admirably - I think...(hic).

Hey ham, you'd totally love it here. Looks like the locals are as wised up to the house and techno stuff as the the UK are. Mellow, chill out, ambient seem like second nature. Actually, Sydney is the first place I've known where it is totally impossible to tell a person's background, education or lifestyle preferences from superficial impressions based on ethnicity, speech or manner of dress. Well cool.

And it's a haven for old hippies, too ;-)

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Date: Wed, Dec 27, 2000 at 16:15:04 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: I'm not speaking to you, it was -3 here
Message:
last night, -6 in scouseland.

Sydney sounds excellent, but you're worrying me, you're not gonna turn into one of those sad old hippy ravers are ya!!

Sounds like a place to emigrate to if it's above sea level.
How long you out there for?

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Date: Thurs, Dec 28, 2000 at 18:53:03 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: crayggie@hotmail.com
To: ham
Subject: I'm not speaking to you, it was -3 here
Message:
Turning into an ex-hippy raver? Not quite - for one thing I've been ex-hippy ever since punk started. The hippy ref was for your benefit, dontcha know? ;)

Hmm, gotta come home next week unfortunately - feels like I've been here forever. And, yes, Sydney's definitely the place to emigrate to if you're in a position to do that. Anyway, I'm bringing back a stack of CD's along with my didgeridoo from the rainforest. Also, TD's sitting on a goldmine of Maharaji vids (if 'goldmine' is the right word). I was thinking of the fun we could have if we cut and pasted some voice samples of the Massah over a backbeat and got them into MP3 format...

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Date: Thurs, Dec 28, 2000 at 19:31:34 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Sampling gm, yessirree
Message:
Yeah but who's got all those Incredible String Band albums!

I'm gonna give up on the hippy wind up's with you methinx, haven't spotted a single punkish defence reaction about the topic, so......

Talking of hippys, of the good sort, do say hello to loaf-ji for us when you're back. E-mails man, how do people do it, even when they can type up to speed, bejeezuz, could spend me whole life e-mailing at the moment and still not be clear.

I'm on a sequencer roll at the moment, if you could get the videos onto cassette, or cd format would be even better, the mind boggles at the fun that could be had.
Also got that rappish poem of Larkins from the other week to work on which as loaf-ji said had real potential.
I reckon you could do some rap stuff, slip in some big boy samples, get some porno samples for the blonde effect, phat hip-hop beats, with his squeeky voice wouldn't need to do much timestretching, happy hardcore or what.

Say hello to td for us, she's got to be another good 'un for you to be visiting.
PS did you see cat's comments about ya, to see you as nasty takes some doing even for a premie, ahh well

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Date: Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 01:35:48 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: ham
Subject: Sampling gm, yessirree
Message:
okie-doke, I'll see what I can get onto cassette (have to do it with the sound down to avoid the nausea). There is actually this shocking revisionist video done as a 25yr celebration of M in the West (1996) called 'I have this Knowledge' full of archive footage of the child guru grinning smugly, a few clips of sanitised satsang and some premie voiceovers talking about how extremist the devotees used to be back then etc. All the 'Lord' stuff airbrushed out, along with the Holy Family, Peace Bomb, Millenium 73 etc. What a fucking whitewash!

Did I see Catweasel's comments? Nah - I don't even click on his posts nowadays.

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Date: Wed, Dec 27, 2000 at 20:07:45 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: ham
Subject: I'm not speaking to you, it was -3 here
Message:
Dear ham,
I don't want to hear you cry about -6! It has been -5F to about 10F for to many days here!!!!
I crave Australia or some warm place! :)
Hope you had a merry one dear.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Thurs, Dec 28, 2000 at 14:29:16 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Yeah but I am a wussy whingeing pom
Message:
I won't say another word Robyn, promise.
Sounds like 24/7 duvet time to me.

Did you read about that geezer buried in his car for 16 days under snow who survived on sweets and a carton of orange juice. If he hadn't had been a deserter can you imagine the ad money he'd be making now!

I almost had my most heart breaking chrissie ever, rescued at 11 at night with my best chrissie present ever by far. I'll e-mail, suffice to say that me & me mum are communicating better than ever now, a bizarre day!

And any aussies reading this, roll on the summer, are you in for a shock, yeah, go get 'em Nasser. (Sorry Robyn, cricket stuff again, but as an uneducated yank you're not ready for such sophistication yet!!)

Here's to 2001, which I'm getting a great feeling about.

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Date: Thurs, Dec 28, 2000 at 22:31:23 (GMT)
From: Steve Waugh
Email: None
To: ham
Subject: Yeah ,14+(nt)
Message:
fhr
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Date: Fri, Dec 29, 2000 at 01:16:37 (GMT)
From: Nasser Hussain won't
Email: None
To: Steve Waugh
Subject: say it, 14+ IS impressive, but w5 d4 l1 ain't
Message:
bad either, especially since we were the 1ist team to win at that last test venue in Pakistan, as in EVER, by any side, as in ever. Faisalabad?

Getting serious Stevie, and without Warne, I reckon it's gonna be a cracker of a series.

I've waited 30 years for an england team, as against bothamesque individualism, to remember what the strengths of english cricket at it's best are.

Lets hope the summer isn't drowned out.

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Date: Fri, Dec 29, 2000 at 07:01:19 (GMT)
From: Richie Benaud
Email: None
To: Nasser Hussain
Subject: Nasser wont last 3 balls. And he'll need 3 balls!
Message:
Warne trained yesterday. No problems. Will play for Victoria(State side). Looks like he's up for it. No Warne? Bring on the poms!
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Date: Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 03:27:44 (GMT)
From: Darren Gough
Email: None
To: Richie Benaud
Subject: If he's fully back I take back everything,
Message:
well maybe, still reckon we'll give ya a decent series and guarantee it will be reasonably tight at least.
We have got a decent, and more importantly, tight, bowling attacvk now, still not sure about our batting, for chrissakes Hick's still around.
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Date: Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 13:47:56 (GMT)
From: Bay13
Email: None
To: Darren Gough
Subject: O n Monday in Oz it will be OI ! OI ! OI!
Message:
Oh we cant wait! McGrath , Gillespie , Bichel , Warne, McGill and on and on and on......................... BOWLED HIM!!!!!!
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Date: Thurs, Dec 28, 2000 at 20:57:19 (GMT)
From: Lesley
Email: None
To: ham
Subject: Huh, Stevie is in better form than ever
Message:
Not that I'm a great fan of cricket, it doesn't even keep the seagulls entertained!

I HAVE A GOOD FEELING ABOUT 2001 TOO!*!*!*!*!*

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Date: Wed, Dec 27, 2000 at 17:45:18 (GMT)
From: New-Age Redneck
Email: None
To: ham
Subject: Nigel, a raver??????
Message:
Why YES, of course!

He's on/in EX-stacy as we speak!

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Date: Thurs, Dec 28, 2000 at 19:00:04 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: crayggie@hotmail.com
To: New-Age Redneck
Subject: Not raving, but drowning...
Message:
..or snorkling off the reef, rather. Mind-blowing experience for a pom who's never even flown in an aeroplane before!

Hey, N.A.R., I have a feeling I know you...(?)

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Date: Mon, Dec 25, 2000 at 19:54:45 (GMT)
From: Oliver
Email: None
To: F.A.
Subject: F.A., Re. Recent Ex-Premies.
Message:
How do I apply to join.

Oliver.

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Date: Tues, Dec 26, 2000 at 00:34:43 (GMT)
From: Recent Exes Info
Email: None
To: Oliver
Subject: F.A., Re. Recent Ex-Premies.
Message:
Send an email to recentexes@yahoo.com
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Date: Wed, Dec 27, 2000 at 16:08:51 (GMT)
From: Oliver.
Email: None
To: Recent Exes Info
Subject: I am really fucked.
Message:
Please accept my rain checque.

Hooroo.

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Date: Sun, Dec 24, 2000 at 00:26:25 (GMT)
From: Austin, TX
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Bush Sues Santa (ot)
Message:
BUSH SUES SANTA

AUSTIN, TX - Dec.15 - Attorneys for Texas Governor George W. Bush filed suit in federal court today, seeking to prevent Santa Claus from making his list and then checking it twice. The complaint seeks an immediate injunction against the beloved Christmas icon, asking the court to effectively ban his traditional practice of checking the list of good boys and girls one additional time before packing his sleigh.

The suit, filed in the Federal District Court of Austin, Texas, asks a federal judge to 'hereby order Mr. Claus to cease and desist all repetitive and duplicative list-checking activity, and certify the original list as submitted, without amendment, alteration, deletion, or other unnecessary modification.' 'There are no standards for deciding who is naughty, and who is nice. It's totally arbitrary and capricious. How many more times does he need to check? This checking, checking, and re-checking over and over again must stop now,' said former Secretary James Baker. Baker further claimed that unnamed GOP observers witnessed an elf remove all boys named Brad from the 'nice' list, filing them under 'naughty' instead because 'everyone knows all boys named Brad are brats.'

Gov. Bush cited the potential for unauthorized list tampering, and blasted what he called the 'fuzzy math up there at the North Pole.' 'Their security is really awful, really bad,' said Bush. 'My mother just walked right in, told 'em she was Mrs. Claus. They didn't check her ID or nothing.'

Meanwhile, Dick Cheney, Gov. Bush's running mate, issued a direct plea to St. Nick himself. 'Mr. Claus, I call on you to do the honorable thing, and quit checking your list. The children of the world have had enough. They demand closure now,' Cheney said, adding that his granddaughter has
already selected a name for the pony that she's asked for. Santa Claus could not be reached for comment, but a spokes-elf said he was 'deeply distressed' by news of the pending legal action against him. 'He's losing weight, and he hasn't said 'Ho Ho Ho' for days,' said the spokes-elf.

'He's just not feeling jolly.'

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Date: Wed, Dec 27, 2000 at 01:35:15 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Bush gets tough on congressmen
Message:
'I am mindful of the difference between the executive branch and the legislative branch. I assured all four of these leaders that I know the difference, and that difference is they pass the laws and I execute them.'

--George W. Bush jr., Washington, D.C., Dec. 18, 2000

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Date: Wed, Dec 27, 2000 at 16:16:55 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: G
Subject: Bush gets tough on congressmen
Message:
G:

It's going to be a long four years. According to Michael Moore the Nader wing are fully prepared to do the some sort of thing in 2004, even if it costs the Presidency again... and they expect to get *more* votes this time. In my opinion the conventional strategy of third party movements in the US, to change the position of the 'closest neighbor,' may not apply in this instance. It may just be bad strategy. Along the conventional political liberal-to-conservative scale the US population has clearly moved to the right. Compelling the Democrats to adopt a conventional social democrat agenda would simply make them un-electable. What might be do-able, however, is to motivate the Democrats to adopt some of the 'generalist' policies advocated by Ruy Texiera and Joel Rogers. These resemble the old SD policies in intent, but are not as 'centralizing' in terms of government control. I don't see Nader (or Moore) embracing these policy positions though. It'll be a long 4 years. Hope that's all it is.

On the upside, we may finally rival, and come to understand, the 'cultural cringe' of our Aussie cousins.

--Scott

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Date: Sun, Dec 24, 2000 at 07:25:40 (GMT)
From: Owl
Email: None
To: Austin, TX
Subject: Bush Sues Santa (ot)/ (Wonderful)
Message:
Wonderful

thank you

Keep it up.

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Date: Sun, Dec 24, 2000 at 00:55:08 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Austin, TX
Subject: Bush Sues Santa (ot)
Message:
Meanwhile, Dick Cheney, Gov. Bush's running mate, issued a direct plea to St. Nick himself. 'Mr. Claus, I call on you to do the honorable thing, and quit checking your list. The children of the world have had enough. They demand closure now,' Cheney said, adding that his granddaughter has.

Can not remember the exact figure, but was it every three secounds a child dies. Dick Cheney is certainly a dick.

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Date: Sun, Dec 24, 2000 at 10:27:28 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Correction. It's every 3.7 sec....nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Sun, Dec 24, 2000 at 00:07:29 (GMT)
From: Zhayy Shwaa
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Premie Post On DEJANEWS
Message:
Just found this on deja.news. This awful premie is still trying to get converts even on the web. They never give up do they?


i am sad to see this board being used like a blank wall for grafitti. it is blank because no one comes here to speak of Maharaj Ji or the Knowledge he reveals. so random people, who know nothing about him, or about us, the Premies, pass by it, and feel free to use it for their own notions. I, for one, miss the old days when we spoke to each other openly and truthfully about what we realized, by living and practicing Knowledge. I have been doing this  for 27 years. It is the only thing in my life that never fails, never changes, always helps. I wish 12 step people knew about this... I wish the Jesus evangelists knew about this. I wish all you beautiful people, all six million of you around the world, who have had this Knowledge revealed to you, would come here, and use this board, as an opportunity to talk to each other, and to the rest of these readers, about what we have been shown. They don't know that what they are searching for is already inside of them. They don't know that you can't charge money for it, because it is god-given, when you start breathing at birth. they don't know personally the power that is behind everything, behind all Life.  They don't know that there is someone showing it, if they are guileless and ready for it.  But we have seen these things, and we can tell them it's real. Who is going to tell them it is a reality, if we do not??
 
Those of you who come after me, here,-- I hope you will read this, and ask us about Knowledge, and not use this page to put up advertisements. the web is billions and billions strong; there are plenty of other places you can go do that. this page is for  maharaj ji. and  for we who know him-- and for you, though you might not know or understand how, at this first meeting.
but return and read, over the months, and
you will....
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~meanwhile,....
if you want some intro, go look at http://www.maharaji.org
 
....................then you might want to come back, and ask some questions here..
and make sure that the person answering you has received Knowledge from Maharaji. ask for a date when, and from whom, and where. if they hedge, reserve your belief for another time, when you can ask a Premie.  we know each other without being introduced, and we can identify someone who isnt what they present to be. this is not a perception you can fake, once it's been opened to you.
 
................
hope to see you back here, in the future.

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Date: Sun, Dec 24, 2000 at 01:54:16 (GMT)
From: zhayy shwaa
Email: Jai_Choix@webtv.net
To: Zhayy Shwaa
Subject: HEYYYY-WHO PUT THIS UP HERE? THIS IS MINE!
Message:
HEY GENIUSES--DID YOU CHECK THE DATE ON THE POSTING? DIJA BOTHER TO READ THE EMAIL ADDRESS WITH IT?-----------------------JAI CHOIX. PRONOUNCED ZHAYY SHWAA, IN FRENCH. ANYBODY OUT THERE RECOGNIZE THE HANDLE??----------------------YOU KNOW ME ALREADY. HAVE YOU BEEN PAYING ATTENTION?ITS 'JANET OF VENICE'.YOU MIGHT HAVE SHOWN SOME BRAINS AND EMAILED ME BEFORE YOU TOOK WHAT WAS MINE TO POST AND PUT IT UP HERE.NOW:
BEFORE YOU LINE UP TO PULL THE SPANISH INQUISITION ON ME ABOUT MY LOYALTIES, DO A FORUM SEARCH ON MY NAME, AND COMPARE WHEN THAT WAS WRITTEN ,TO WHEN I FIRST CAME ON HERE AND ASKED TO BE DEALT INTO THE NEW GAME.------------AFTER THAT, I'LL TAKE QUESTIONS--IF THERE REMAIN ANY.I REPEAT:THEN I'LL TAKE QUESTIONS-IF THERE ARE ANY.-------------------------------JANET OF VENICEJAI CHOIXZHAYY SHWAA
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Date: Sun, Dec 24, 2000 at 06:48:00 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: zhayy shwaa
Subject: Shit happens
Message:
It is OK janet, we love you and we all have the right to change our mind, does not matter if it was yesterday. I noticed, but did not say anything, ;eft it to you,

Take care

Salam@rawat.suck

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Date: Sun, Dec 24, 2000 at 00:47:00 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Zhayy Shwaa
Subject: Premie Post On DEJANEWS
Message:
Not to worry. I've just set up my spam machine to regularly spam the alt.cult.maharaji newsgroup with posts pointing people in the other direction.
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Date: Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 05:20:44 (GMT)
From: Graciousness
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: That's it.. M's a fraud.Allow no room for doubt
Message:
http://www.pacificnet.net/larder/expl.html For those who may feel thier calling
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Date: Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 11:18:47 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Graciousness
Subject: FA: What's this crap?........NT
Message:
NT
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Date: Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 08:41:32 (GMT)
From: me
Email: yes
To: Graciousness ?
Subject: That's it.. M's a fraud.Allow no room for doubt
Message:
// I thought allow no room for doubt in your mind meant keep an open mind and move ahead if there is no doubt in your mind, if there is doubt in your mind do not move ahead, in other words leave no room for doubt in your mind and if doubt is in your mind do not move ahead.

When I say move ahead I mean like, if you are trying to decide if you should do something and you have doubt in your mind do not do it if you can help it.

Not stupid little thoughts like should I take this taxi, it may not make it to the airport.

More like do I think this one called Graciousness really is trying to be gracious, I have a doubt in my mind on this, so I will not at this time believe that that one is really gracious.

//

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Date: Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 06:30:55 (GMT)
From: Sympathizer
Email: None
To: Graciousness
Subject: Hey I got one for ya...
Message:
Hey your Graciousness, if your into that stuff, check this out:
Booby Trap

Then maybe the FA SHOULD delete this whole thread ;-)

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Date: Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 07:16:59 (GMT)
From: Sympathizer
Email: None
To: Sympathizer
Subject: Peek-a-boo
Message:
Hi Janet!!
Hi Stonor!!
[snicker]
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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 11:54:44 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Sympathizer
Subject: nothing to snicker at here-i looked at a link
Message:
i hope you arent now categorizIng me with the incendiary. I persisted until i cut thru the barriers to finally reach the linked site, and looked thru it and came back. then clicked on your link and knew what that was and yawned and came back.
hi yourself. what else did it tell you about me? btw--what IS my IP number, anyway??
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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 23:06:04 (GMT)
From: bazza
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: its OK
Message:
janet
had to make his 'graciousness' realize that we do have his IP and other details on file. I knew it wasnt you or stonor, but hoped you would both undestand the intent.

your IP number is.....well I wont post it but I will email it if you really want me to! It also told me you use a unique colour palette and have a fondness for small furry animals. And you watch a lot of TV ;-)

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Date: Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 07:38:30 (GMT)
From: Sympathizier
Email: None
To: Sympathizer
Subject: Gotcha
Message:
Not really a sympathyizer, just wonderin' who posted that crap about explosives. Now I know ;-) Wasn't the girls!! It'll be our little secret - just don't do it again 'kay?
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Date: Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 08:11:57 (GMT)
From: Graciousness
Email: None
To: Sympathizier
Subject: Gotcha
Message:
Kamikazes served a great purpose for the Japanese. The same is true in the middle east with the suicide squads. If someone is lying and decieving you, and you curse him every other day what is your complaint? Would you have that he continue in his deception and lies? Or any other false messiah, antichrist or false prophet? How many lives have they collectively destroyed? Answer that! How many people followed James Jones to the poison punch bowl? How many women and children were burned to death thanks to David Koresh? How many people died because of the bopp comet chaser? and on and on and on.
The day may come when people will have to decide whether to follow the reign of a terrorist dictator or stand up and fight back. Didn't anyone learn anything from Hitler especially you europeans? You may call it Lila or God's will. So it is with those who stand up to the liars decievers dictators and predators. They too are just lila freaks and doing God's will.
God's way was shown and is self evident. Walk in that way. Otherwise do not whine and complain. Have the heart, walk the walk or shut up. There are many enemies of God and man in this world and do not criticize those who may destroy them someday, those who preyed on the souls of men.
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Date: Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 14:38:12 (GMT)
From: Bazza
Email: None
To: Graciousness
Subject: Dangerous game you're playing
Message:
I don't know if you're for real or if you are just screwing with us, either way I do have your tracked details and won't hesitate to give them to the FBI if necessary, for our own protection.
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Date: Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 07:56:23 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Sympathizier
Subject: Gotcha
Message:
No, we got you, V.B. aka ... (see html source) ... So it works! Never would have clicked on that one if I didn't know where it was coming from! ;-)
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Date: Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 14:32:24 (GMT)
From: Bazza
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: Aw shucks!!
Message:
Hey you!
But is this Gracious guy a nut or what? I do have those details BTW - I think Marianne may need them for her records.
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Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 06:23:04 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Bazza
Subject: My measurements, my salary, and now this!!! (nt)
Message:
And you're going to give it to Marianne for her files!!!!!!!!
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Date: Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 05:43:54 (GMT)
From: someone
Email: None
To: FA
Subject: FAs: Above post should be deleted, IMO (nt)
Message:
vvvvv
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Date: Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 15:57:14 (GMT)
From: someone else
Email: None
To: someone
Subject: This is being taken seriously and dealt with NT
Message:
NT
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