Forum V: Archive
Compiled: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 12:11:56 (GMT)
From: Jan 27, 2001 To: Feb 06, 2001 Page: 2 Of: 5


Salam -:- Missing and Exploited -:- Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 00:51:27 (GMT)
__ salam -:- Or maybe closer to home -:- Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 15:36:38 (GMT)

Sandy -:- Back at ya -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 21:37:20 (GMT)
__ Tonette -:- You are being way too hard on yourself! -:- Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 10:14:23 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- Hang in there Sandy. -:- Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 09:04:01 (GMT)
__ __ Conlon -:- Avocado shaped people -:- Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 19:00:19 (GMT)
__ __ JHB -:- The Avocado Pip -:- Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 10:13:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ Conlon -:- Avocados in Latvia in winter? -:- Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 18:58:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ JHB -:- Avocados in Latvia in winter? -:- Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 19:07:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Conlon -:- Great avocado pips think alike -:- Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 20:56:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- Great avocado pips think alike -:- Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 22:31:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Conlon -:- Great avocado pips think alike -:- Sat, Feb 03, 2001 at 02:27:38 (GMT)
__ Katie -:- Thanks, Sandy (nt) -:- Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 00:50:24 (GMT)
__ JHB -:- Back at ya -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 22:21:26 (GMT)
__ Gerry -:- Back at ya -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 21:55:09 (GMT)
__ __ Kelly -:- Extra Extra read all about it 'Dog worries sheep' -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 22:00:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ Sandy -:- What dog? I did that just to be straight with u. -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 22:22:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Kelly -:- What dog? I did that just to be straight with u. -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 23:04:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Sandy -:- What dog? I did that just to be straight with u. -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 23:32:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ JHB -:- What dog? I did that just to be straight with u. -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 22:27:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Sandy -:- No worries. -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 23:22:23 (GMT)

Elan Vital mole -:- Phase 4 approaches - be prepared! -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 20:16:05 (GMT)
__ Pauline Premie -:- Is Ex-Lax one of the new techniques? -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 20:33:31 (GMT)
__ __ EV Mole -:- I'm laughing so much I just sh..... -:- Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 18:53:33 (GMT)
__ __ ROSALIA -:- You did it again! -:- Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 01:33:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- 'Articulated'? Too funny (nt) -:- Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 01:56:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Rosalia -:- Too funny was the idea, brother Jim -:- Sat, Feb 03, 2001 at 02:21:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- That's right, ROSALIA, it's CHIT-CHAT!!! -:- Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 01:51:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Rosalia -:- Thanks brother Roger -:- Sat, Feb 03, 2001 at 16:02:24 (GMT)
__ __ Conlon -:- No, Ex-Lax is my nickname for la-ex -:- Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 00:27:45 (GMT)
__ __ Kelly -:- Do you have to buy propogation packages? -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 21:43:15 (GMT)
__ __ Roger eDrek -:- TED Farkel, is this the woman you love? -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 20:47:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ TED Farkel -:- TED'S in love with Paulinessatsang,not Pauline nt -:- Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 01:50:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- That's so, so beautiful, TED. You are... -:- Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 02:00:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ Lurker #27 -:- Righto Rog!! Shri Hans can help TED!!!!! -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 21:08:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- Did you hear that, TED? River of bondage to Maya -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 21:37:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Tim Matheson -:- don't you mean-River of maya to Bondage- -:- Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 13:24:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Flea in Your Ear -:- Tim Matheson ''WE are not ashamed of our Lord'' -:- Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 08:34:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Lurker #27 -:- Yeah Rog, and that's just for STARTERS!!! -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 22:10:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Boo Radley -:- #27--Yer So Clear -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 22:18:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- Boo, girl scouts? Aren't they a little young? -:- Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 00:09:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Lurker #27 -:- Excellent warning to BOO, Rog!!!! -:- Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 18:16:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Boo Radley -:- Aw, C'mon, Mr. eDrek and #27 -:- Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 23:47:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Atticus Finch -:- Boo is innocent -:- Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 14:15:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Boo Radley -:- Hi Mr. Atticus -:- Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 23:50:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- Is she your sister or your daughter, Atticus? -:- Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 05:30:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Boo Radley -:- Mr. Atticus' family tree has no branches.... -:- Sat, Feb 03, 2001 at 19:10:28 (GMT)
__ __ Steve Quint -:- Fourth Technique While Propagating, Pauline -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 20:40:16 (GMT)

gErRy -:- I'm an ol' dawg, but I kin lurn, too -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 18:21:34 (GMT)
__ Steve Quint -:- Look... -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 20:20:19 (GMT)
__ Patrick (formerly Anon) -:- Good boy gErRy....don't bite the guest -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 20:01:18 (GMT)
__ __ Patrick (formerly Anon) -:- Good boy Jim....don't bite the guest -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 20:08:35 (GMT)
__ Francesca -:- The rewrite is good, the original is rude but good -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 20:00:24 (GMT)
__ Marianne -:- I may not always agree with... -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 19:19:02 (GMT)
__ Way -:- The rewrite is better -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 19:15:21 (GMT)
__ __ gErRy -:- Way check this out...purrrrrrr -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 20:00:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ Mike Finch -:- That's better !! -:- Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 01:06:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ gerry -:- the experience thing -:- Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 01:55:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- 'Experience'? R.I.P. -:- Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 02:25:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Mike Finch -:- 'Experience'? R.I.P. -:- Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 11:52:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ ham -:- Am I having tuning problems Jim? -:- Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 04:28:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ Conlon -:- Gerry, that is purrrrrrrfect -:- Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 00:22:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ Patrick (formerly Anon) -:- Who says you can't teach an old dog new tricks? -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 21:41:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ JHB -:- To Patrick - Oh my god, I didn't did I? -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 22:14:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Patrick (formerly Anon) -:- To Patrick - Oh my god, I didn't did I? -:- Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 01:31:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- To Patrick - Oh my god, I didn't did I? -:- Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 07:23:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ Lesley -:- Grr, I've become accustomed to your snarrrll -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 20:20:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ Way -:- Hey!! -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 20:19:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ gErRy -:- Hey!! -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 20:31:58 (GMT)
__ __ Way -:- And, Marianne, -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 19:23:43 (GMT)
__ __ Carol -:- The rewrite is better,I agree. Kudos, Gerry! nt -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 19:21:59 (GMT)
__ __ Marianne -:- Love ya, Way -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 19:20:32 (GMT)

Sir Dave -:- Don't get lost - it's all here -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 17:35:59 (GMT)

Jean-Michel -:- EV sponsoship campaign (new stuff on EPO) -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 09:28:15 (GMT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- Fixed new page: EV Sponsorship Campaign -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 18:13:36 (GMT)
__ __ Katie -:- Thanks again, JM (FPMWW) -:- Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 12:19:43 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- A serious question -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 19:17:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- A serious issue? Deserving a special page? -:- Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 10:27:09 (GMT)
__ Steve Quint -:- EVI? - HEY MAHA, YOU FORGOT THE 'L' NT -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 16:18:24 (GMT)

salam -:- god of Amaroo -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 04:58:15 (GMT)

Monmot -:- Minister Gets 60 Yrs. For Child Abuse (OT maybe) -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 03:26:24 (GMT)

Ebay Alert -:- Inner Game of Tennis 1st Ed. W T Gallwey -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 01:05:49 (GMT)

Jean-Paul -:- Exchange -:- Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 23:41:29 (GMT)
__ bill -:- Thanks again J.M.....nt -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 13:30:55 (GMT)
__ __ Jean-Paul -:- JM and JP not same -:- Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 21:54:06 (GMT)
__ Tim G -:- Thanks Jean Paul..for a bit of sanity nt -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 00:44:59 (GMT)
__ __ postie -:- True. True. -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 18:03:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ Katie -:- Thanks, Postie -:- Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 13:30:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ Robyn -:- True. True. -:- Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 04:03:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Helen -:- True. True. -:- Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 18:29:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Helen -:- Sorry Jean Paul -:- Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 00:01:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Jean-Paul NOT Jean-Michel (JM) (NT) -:- Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 23:24:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Postie -:- Thanks Robyn (nt) -:- Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 05:25:58 (GMT)

Jim -:- Karen and Nina hold their breath (from ELK) -:- Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 22:26:18 (GMT)
__ SpacyT -:- Personal 'dig' at the Judge -:- Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 23:04:09 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- Great name, you got there kid -:- Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 23:39:19 (GMT)

Charles S -:- Premies and Exes from the 70's, 80's and 90's... -:- Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 21:31:56 (GMT)
__ Francesca -:- From de 70s -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 04:34:02 (GMT)
__ Joe -:- Premies and Exes from the 70's, 80's and 90's... -:- Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 23:15:28 (GMT)
__ Steve -:- Premies and Exes from the 70's, 80's and 90's... -:- Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 21:52:28 (GMT)
__ __ SpacyT -:- Premies and Exes from the 70's, 80's and 90's... -:- Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 22:21:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ Steve -:- Premies and Exes from the 70's, 80's and 90's... -:- Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 22:50:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ Gregg -:- Practicing 'Knowledge' -:- Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 22:34:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Steve -:- Practicing 'Knowledge' -:- Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 23:36:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ SpacyT -:- Practicing 'Knowledge' -:- Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 22:51:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Conlon -:- 'Sisapulan Complex' -:- Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 23:11:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Francesca -:- 'Sisapulan Complex' -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 18:22:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Gregg -:- Practicing 'Knowledge' -:- Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 23:10:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ SpacyT -:- Practicing 'Knowledge' -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 08:54:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Gregg -:- One correction, SpacyT... -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 01:33:55 (GMT)

Lesley -:- To Mike Finch, on dying in the desert -:- Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 20:39:16 (GMT)
__ Mike Finch -:- Replies to everyone -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 03:44:25 (GMT)
__ __ Kelly -:- Replies to everyone -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 23:55:54 (GMT)
__ __ Lesley -:- to Mike F on the topic of satsang -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 21:27:27 (GMT)
__ __ Bin Liner -:- Hello MF and welcome. -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 21:13:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ Earthling -:- Hello MF and welcome. -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 21:50:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Bin Liner -:- OK , just for you , Rawat's a prick . nt -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 23:09:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ cq -:- Why, in the name of all things sacred - -:- Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 18:16:42 (GMT)
__ __ Way -:- Two definitions -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 18:06:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ Conlon -:- Well-spoken, Way -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 18:16:18 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- Anyone could play that game -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 16:14:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jethro -:- Just a -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 17:28:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ JHB -:- No! I keep forgetting -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 20:07:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jethro -:- Ok, hey I can't stop... -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 20:49:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Way -:- Remember, Jethro, that... -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 18:23:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jethro -:- I just don't by that stuff. -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 18:59:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Way -:- I just don't by that stuff. -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 20:11:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jethro -:- ok, and as I said to JHB -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 20:52:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jethro -:- I can't spell 'buy'(nt) -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 19:02:43 (GMT)
__ __ Scott T. -:- Replies to everyone -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 06:10:56 (GMT)
__ __ Conlon -:- Bravo, Mike -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 04:31:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- Just curious, Conlon -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 16:21:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Conlon -:- Jim, -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 18:11:37 (GMT)
__ __ Susan -:- Replies to everyone -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 04:22:26 (GMT)

Susan -:- 'Faith' based government funding proposal -:- Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 19:51:59 (GMT)
__ Scott T. -:- 'Faith' based government funding proposal -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 03:51:45 (GMT)
__ Susan -:- a letter to President Bush -:- Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 23:19:25 (GMT)
__ Joe -:- Marvin Olasky and the depravity of poor people -:- Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 22:21:44 (GMT)
__ __ G -:- supporting propagation -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 00:53:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ Scott T. -:- supporting propagation -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 05:29:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ G -:- interesting -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 16:42:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Scott T. -:- interesting -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 20:41:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Scott T. -:- interesting -:- Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 16:33:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- Religions are Big Business in the USA -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 21:28:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ Joe -:- supporting propagation -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 01:04:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Scott T. -:- supporting propagation -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 12:33:03 (GMT)
__ Francesca -:- 'Faith' based Nazi government -:- Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 20:34:06 (GMT)
__ __ Marianne -:- ACLU is drafting the lawsuit as we post, I suspect -:- Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 20:41:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ Ben Lurking -:- ACLU is drafting the lawsuit as we post, I suspect -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 01:47:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ Conlon -:- SF may file first suit but -:- Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 20:45:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Francesca -:- Cross a different legal issue, methinks -:- Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 23:00:27 (GMT)

JHB -:- To Mike Finch re: Maharaji's Identity -:- Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 19:02:05 (GMT)
__ Way -:- To Mike Finch -:- Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 20:00:19 (GMT)
__ __ Steve -:- To Mike Finch -:- Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 20:07:34 (GMT)
__ Tim G -:- Spot On ! JHB -:- Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 19:58:44 (GMT)
__ __ Mike Finch -:- Replies -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 03:46:53 (GMT)

Susan -:- Pulling a good quote from Gerry to the front -:- Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 18:58:40 (GMT)
__ Francesca -:- Thanks, Susan ... -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 18:28:02 (GMT)
__ Lesley -:- Does this mean I'm in 'Dances with Bulldogs' -:- Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 20:45:05 (GMT)
__ __ gErRy -:- I forgot plants... -:- Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 20:53:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ Selene -:- speaking of plants -:- Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 22:26:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Stonor -:- speaking of plants :) -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 00:29:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- yeah I DID find it -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 00:34:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- yeah I DID find it -:- Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 00:44:35 (GMT)


Date: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 00:51:27 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Missing and Exploited
Message:
Fill up the forum if you know any child molister.


Report Jagdeo !


Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 15:36:38 (GMT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Or maybe closer to home
Message:
Central Bureau of Investigation - Indian Goverment

They appear to be interested in catching corrupt criminals, you know, hit and run and Bobs your uncle.

Marianne, this looks like your allyway.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 21:37:20 (GMT)
From: Sandy
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Back at ya
Message:
I was reading some threads that recently went inactive that I was involved in.

* Yes, I do 'fuzzy thinking' sometimes. There are times when it is completely appropriate, when there is brainstorming going on to be creative. I have done it in conversations with some of you when it was not appropriate, the use/misuse of terms and the fuzzy if not downright inaccurate use of other terms. Sorry about that.

* Yes, I have gone off-topic to discuss things that were being discussed here, only to be accused of avoiding my own issues with Maharaji. I did not consciously go OT to avoid my own issues, but I can see how it might look from your side...some guy (me) keeps posting about everything but the kitchen sink, and is still in a quandry over the main issue for going on two years. I will take that under serious advisement.

* No, I have not done or said anything purposely to confuse or throw off anyone or any topic here. Rather, it is more along the lines of what Patrick desecribed as my 'thinking out loud' in front of you all, which I will also be more careful not to do around here. Any confusion that I generated was a result of my 'thinking out loud', and right now my thinking with regard to Maharaji is confused, and is affecting other parts of my life too, like how I am interacting here.

* I was not always like this. I think that not using parts of my brain that had to do with just accepting and not thinking about and evaluating my involvement with Maharaji for over 20 years has made me a bit mentally lazy. I am working on that too.

* The fact that I am even in a state of indecision over this makes me feel kind of dumbed down.

So I have tried to be honest and 'clean as I go' like a good chef. Please understand that I am discovering some of the things about the way I have been communicating from direct contact with you here. I am not taking some 'new tactic' to get over on you or some bullshit like that. I am evolving and making my mistakes in real time and in front of you. I think I should take Patrick's advice and not do that. It has created (more) ill will and that's the last thing any of us needs more of around here.

Peace.

Sandy

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 10:14:23 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Sandy
Subject: You are being way too hard on yourself!
Message:
And cyber space is the last place you should be looking for real communication.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 09:04:01 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Sandy
Subject: Hang in there Sandy.
Message:
Hi Sandy,

I wouldn't worry too much about thinking out loud. The forum is a place where you can do this. You probably know as well as anyone here about the flak you can get- especially if you come here as premie. But you're on a journey out of a religious cult, run by a master with feet of clay. Escaping from a difficult situation is often not a thing you can do with great dignity. We've all been there Sandy, and we know what it's like. It's impossible to empty our heads of all the crap that we piled up there in an instant.

You're making the same trip as the rest of us here. Some people got out ten or twenty years ago and have discovered themselves again. Although I quit two and a half years ago, I haven't reached that place yet.

I am, however, enjoying my trip out. At least we can think for ourselves again.

Victory to the Human Mind- It's a Wonderful invention. God didn't make a mistake after all. (And the avocado pip is the correct size.)

Take Care

Anth (Founder of the Free shp campaign-1999)

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 19:00:19 (GMT)
From: Conlon
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Avocado shaped people
Message:
My pip is the perfect size for my shape. Thanks.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 10:13:45 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: The Avocado Pip
Message:
AJW reminded me:-

And the avocado pip is the correct size.

I remember this well - Olympia exhibition hall, London, 1981(?). The hall had the worst accoustics anywhere, but then it wasn't intended as an auditorium.

So there I was, focussing on every divine word uttered by my Lord, and he tells me that God makes mistakes, and that the avocado was one of them. I tried to make sense of this, tried to find a place in my brain to store this wisdom, but I couldn't, so I had to sort of leave it hanging in the empty space in the middle of my mind. What a pillock he was and is!

NB. One of my favourite breakfasts, which I happened to have enjoyed this morning, is toast with garlic and herb cream cheese and sliced avocado, and a little salt and ground pepper. No mistake it's delicious!

John.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 18:58:52 (GMT)
From: Conlon
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Avocados in Latvia in winter?
Message:
I must be that global economy. My favorite breakfast too.

PS Pip is a ''pit'' in US.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 19:07:25 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Conlon
Subject: Avocados in Latvia in winter?
Message:
Some British-born Latvian friends of mine used to say that Latvia is a banana republic without the bananas, but now there are bananas everywhere. Latvians seem to have taken to them. Avocados are a bit rarer, and a bit expensive (relatively speaking - this morning's cost about a dollar), but I indulge myself about once a week.

Anyway, what do you mean saying it's your favourite as well? I invented this breakfast!!

John.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 20:56:51 (GMT)
From: Conlon
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Great avocado pips think alike
Message:
Only a dollar. Geezuz they grow em here in Calfornia and they cost the same here. All right not exactly the same breakfast. Mine's toast with marmite and cottage cheese and eat the avo out of it's shell with some salt and pepper.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 22:31:15 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Conlon
Subject: Great avocado pips think alike
Message:
Patrick,

For a country with an average monthly income of $280, $1 for an avocado is expensive. Potatoes are 4 cents for a pound, so people eat a lot more potatoes that avocados:-)

But wasn't Maharaji's statement about avocados absurd? Total stream of consciousness bullshit. I bet he'd had a joint the night before, and ate an avocado, and thought the stone was too big.

Anyway, try this - slice and peel half an avocado. Toast some white bread, spread butter, and some garlic cream cheese (if you can get the French Boursin garlic and herbs that's ideal). Top the toast with sliced avocado, and sprinkle salt and ground pepper. Serve with a cup of good English breakfast tea.

John the getting to be assimilated Latvian (who eats more potatoes than avocados)

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Feb 03, 2001 at 02:27:38 (GMT)
From: Conlon
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Great avocado pips think alike
Message:
Thank you kindly for your breakfast recipe. Extrapolating from your economic lesson on Latvia that means an avo costs one twenty-eighth of a monthly income. The average monthly income in SF is $55,000 which means that one avo should cost nearly $2,000 here.

That is the cost of one bedroom apartment here in a bad neighborhood. So you pay one month's rent for an avo. You sure are living high on the hog. Well, if ever you make it to a Latvian night in SF I'll make sure I lay in plaenty of avos and Boursin garlic cream cheese.

I don't remember the avocado satsang but I could have been asleep at the time which often happened to me as it was my only defense at having my intelligence so assaulted by the gooroo's impenetrably nonsensical spoutings.

And no, he has not improved his public speaking skills. His latest deliveries have often left me feeling like I had been in a traffic accident or watched a Jackie Chan movie in which the dubbing was not in synch with the actors' lips.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 00:50:24 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Sandy
Subject: Thanks, Sandy (nt)
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 22:21:26 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Sandy
Subject: Back at ya
Message:
Sandy,

You really wouldn't want to hear the stream of consciousness through my mind as I clean out my horses' stables each morning.

So please don't expect us to hear yours. Think carefully about your posts. Who is your audience? Will they be interested? Will they be able to help you?

I know you're confused about things, but try to focus your posts on the substance of the confusion. Like is Maharaji really a divine being or just a poor meditation teacher.

OK? Is the self censoring software up and running?

John.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 21:55:09 (GMT)
From: Gerry
Email: None
To: Sandy
Subject: Back at ya
Message:
Dear Sandy,

I feel your pain. As a truly valued and respected member of our little cyber-cummunity you should know that we are all here for you, in this your 'Dark Night of the Soul.'

I think it is important for you to talk this 'out-loud,' if you will, without Jim or any other bulldog taking you to task for being grossly self-indulgent (which you are not) or obsessively concerned with your own self (which you are not.)

I can just hear the dogs barking now: 'Jesus Christ Sheep, this constant navel gazing is getting REAL fucking old. I, I, I, me me me. Look how your post is riddle with self reference. No wonder you got your own forum, the Sheep Channel. Your constant wanking in public is starting to embarrass even me.'

But don't you listen to them, Sandy. In this, your time of crisis, you need all the love and understanding we can muster. I doesn't matter to me that this is your tenth or twentieth such supplication. I know some of your critics (the mindless brutes) will scream that you're just grandstanding, looking for attention.

Again, all I can say is chin up, shoulders back and be proud of yourself for fighting the good fight, in sincerity and good will. The Lord above, (whomever he/she may be) knows the heart of purity and you Sandy, are it's shining core.

Peace and best of everything,
Your brother in his love,
Jai satchitanand,
God bless,

Gerry

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 22:00:16 (GMT)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: Gerry
Subject: Extra Extra read all about it 'Dog worries sheep'
Message:
Sorry there wasn't room for my nt, I just could't resist it!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 22:22:10 (GMT)
From: Sandy
Email: None
To: Kelly
Subject: What dog? I did that just to be straight with u.
Message:
(nt)
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 23:04:23 (GMT)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: Sandy
Subject: What dog? I did that just to be straight with u.
Message:
Sandy, I just don't quite know what to say to you. The joke is ....Gerry calls you sheep.... I refer to Gerry as one of the hounds....You post, he posts....and I say , (practising the 5th technique, ie. tongue in cheek) 'Dog worries sheep' dya get it?
I'm an occasional cartoonist, and I saw a really funny line ( maybe i'm the only one who get's it) I don't think our humour has quite made it across the Atlantic....
I have been hoping that you have been reading some of the recent conversation on the forum, there's a lot for you here.
Love Kelly
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 23:32:53 (GMT)
From: Sandy
Email: None
To: Kelly
Subject: What dog? I did that just to be straight with u.
Message:
Kel,

I don't read everything here, so I missed it.

I too am a cartoonist, mainly caricatures. What kind of cartoons do you do?

Sandy

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 22:27:12 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Sandy
Subject: What dog? I did that just to be straight with u.
Message:
Sandy,

Kelly was referring to Gerry as the dog (see bulldog references below) and you, of course as the sheep. So Gerry (the dog) was worrying you, SHP (the sheep).

It's very simple if you think about it clearly.

John.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 23:22:23 (GMT)
From: Sandy
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: No worries.
Message:
I just wasn't up on the latest anthropomorphism.

Sandy

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 20:16:05 (GMT)
From: Elan Vital mole
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Phase 4 approaches - be prepared!
Message:
How thankful I am to Maharaji for his continued inspiration in reminding me how precious it is to be able to breathe!

But now the time has come for a new phase in the synchronisation of his message.

His message, which reminds us that our breath is actually HIS gift to us, is about to take on an exciting new phase of relevance, and it's for everyone whose heart is open enough to hear him.

Yes - Phase 4 is about to be unleashed on the world!


And what is Phase 4?

Maharaji has been working on a brand new DVD that is going to change the way the whole world sees him! Yes, the time for reminding people to breathe is nearly over. Now it's time to remind people of a bodily function that is JUST AS important!

Yes, folks, it's all about ... DEFECATION!

He reminds us to breathe, and now he reminds us of something that we'd be in deep shit without!

Remember, without his Grace, we wouldn't be able even to remember to do our duty!

Phase 4 is about to begin!

Remember what it's all about premies

- a doo-doo a day for Maharaji, oy veh!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 20:33:31 (GMT)
From: Pauline Premie
Email: None
To: Elan Vital mole
Subject: Is Ex-Lax one of the new techniques?
Message:
I have always been so blissed out when I had a really, really good bowel movement. I know they have always been by Maharaji's grace, especially after I have eaten a lot of cheese and I am really constipated, like if I haven't had a bowel movement for about 6 days. I feel so much gratitude when it happens, and I immediately make a donation to Elan Vital, so others can also experience this grace. Know what I am saying?

I also find when I am picking my nose, and get that really, really big bugger, wow, that is just so beautiful, and so much grace. I feel so much gratitude. Gratitude and appreciation. It really makes me not want to reveal the techniques, and to keep in touch.

Also, I really hate it when I stick pins into my face, and when I stop, it just feels so good and there is just so much love in that place. It's such a gift and I have so much gratitude. I immediately send more money to the Visions Sponsorship Program to others can also have this wonderful gift, which is that grace and that love, which comes when you have that understanding.

I also then buy a supply of Propagation Packages and distribute them to people I meet on the street.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 18:53:33 (GMT)
From: EV Mole
Email: None
To: Pauline Premie
Subject: I'm laughing so much I just sh.....
Message:
just shit mysel - hey, you trying to muscle in on Maharaji's territory or something?


(memo to self:
how do we copyright a bowel movement?)

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 01:33:28 (GMT)
From: ROSALIA
Email: None
To: Pauline Premie
Subject: You did it again!
Message:
Your satsang is so, so good for me! All the advice you often give helps me grow more and more in THAT experience.

You are right. Maharagi can help even when we are constipated. Also I found out it helps with repressed sexual feelings. Suppossed that as a premie your life have become so simple that you cannot get L...D, well, think about him and you don't think about having it, because HE is all, you know, all we premies need. Just go to work, comeback home and lack yourself in your home to watch his videos. Isolation is not bad, in fact, is the best. You don't get distracted from your breath that way. Who wants to see other people. That is why we came to this planet, to be his devotee and that is the end of the story. How much fun!!

I can relate to the bugger part too. You are the best premie I know: So articulated. Keep it up!!

Jai sat shit anand sister!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 01:56:59 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: ROSALIA
Subject: 'Articulated'? Too funny (nt)
Message:
dddddd
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Feb 03, 2001 at 02:21:16 (GMT)
From: Rosalia
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Too funny was the idea, brother Jim
Message:
K is fun as it is being a devotee of greassy lard, well, as it should have been all along. We got confused, you know.

Lard is the best on the fun department. Is all a joke and his grace can be felt from every corner of the universe, especially at F5!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 01:51:47 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: ROSALIA
Subject: That's right, ROSALIA, it's CHIT-CHAT!!!
Message:
Isolation is not bad, in fact, is the best. You don't get distracted from your breath that way.

Maharaji called it chit-chat, remember.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Feb 03, 2001 at 16:02:24 (GMT)
From: Rosalia
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Thanks brother Roger
Message:
I agree, IT IS chit chat. There are no breaths to waste, that is why is so important that Pauline comes to reminds of the ultimate truth.

I think Lard's boobs are not large enough though...

Jai Sat SHIT Anand

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 00:27:45 (GMT)
From: Conlon
Email: None
To: Pauline Premie
Subject: No, Ex-Lax is my nickname for la-ex
Message:
He's a very good laxative to get rid of bullshit.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 21:43:15 (GMT)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: Pauline Premie
Subject: Do you have to buy propogation packages?
Message:
I've been lost in the maya of this forum for a few weeks now and already I'm out of touch. How much do they cost? Maybe I should take out a loan...well anything that contributes to.. 'The best thing that is happening in this world' and really helps to spread the er er er, really nice feeling that is inside of every breath and y'know if you connect with that thing , that twang that is always within you and pulsing within you until the last moment of your life. And then you really appreciate your breath because it's gone, and you're fucked!!!

Did that ever make sense to you, talk about contradiction!!
Kelly, beyond redemption now

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 20:47:17 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Pauline Premie
Subject: TED Farkel, is this the woman you love?
Message:
TED,

As much as we all love and respect Pauline Premie here in the Westlake Village Divine and Synchronized World Domination Headquarters, an educational tax exempt organization established for the purpose of providing our Lord and Master, Maharaji, with the fastest, latest and most expensive corporate aircraft on the planet so that he can spread his precious Knowledge and bodily fluids to all of mankind, she's kind of a bongo, TED. You know what I mean?

I mean when she comes to WVDSWDHQ to do service we certainly appreciate that there is someone to clean the bathrooms and empty the trash, but that's about all she's good for, TED. Let's face it. She lives in her car in Santa Monica and she hasn't had a regular day job since 1975 when she worked for a little less than two weeks at the Orange Julius bar in the Kittredge Building in Denver.

TED, as beautiful and sexy as Pauline is, she's one of those extra special gopis who has only one thing on her mind and that's bagging the satguru of our time. The WPC has got her number and they've got 24 by 7 surveillance on her and they double team her at programs. Then there's that time she climbed over the fence naked...

And now she's talking about... well, I'm not going to repeat what's she's talking about. I mean, TED, you know that I love our Lord and I love That experience that I have inside and maybe I don't really understand what kind of experience Pauline is having, but I think that talking about that kind of stuff and enjoying it is kinda gross. What do you think, TED? It's a little out there for me.

Ok, TED, I just thought I'd take this opportunity to show you a real good reason why you should not give in to your carnal desires. God only knows where they will take you.

JSCA

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 01:50:29 (GMT)
From: TED Farkel
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: TED'S in love with Paulinessatsang,not Pauline nt
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 02:00:42 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: TED Farkel
Subject: That's so, so beautiful, TED. You are...
Message:
really beginning to understand (aka 'standing under').

This is such a beautiful path of devotion that our Lord has given us. A path where we can completely forget about all of the little problems that we have in our lives. In fact, we can safely forget about ever doing anything for our own selves because we are doing it for our Lord, Maharaji and I'm doing IT right now for the Maharaji as I type this with one hand. Oh, my Lord, my sweet, sweet Lord... (excuse me while surf over to my favorite webpage.)

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 21:08:29 (GMT)
From: Lurker #27
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Righto Rog!! Shri Hans can help TED!!!!!
Message:
You are so right Roger. Look at what Shri Hans says about this . . . .

'The people whose only aim is to enjoy sensual pleasures like a swine, consider salvation insignificant, and even risk their lives for the sake of attaining worldly pleasures.'

'Although one may be a king, or whatever one is doing, all is meant for the belly. Like swine all are roaming here and there for pleasure and have forgotten God.'

TED is in the river of bondage to maya, and you've got to stop him!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 21:37:36 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Lurker #27
Subject: Did you hear that, TED? River of bondage to Maya
Message:
I think that Lurker #27 has got something there. I mean, #27 has got the scriptures to back him up, doesn't he? I wish I had more time for the scriptures, but I'm so busy bagging groceries here at the Trancas Market and doing service and all.

Consider, TED, that Shri Hans is the historical figurehead that our Lord Maharaji looks up t and Shri Hans is part of that lineage that goes back through Joesph Smith, Mohammed, Buddha, Christ, Moses, Krishna, Ram and all the way back to Jehovah One! So, we must recognize that Shri Hans is the critical link that helps give our non-religious cult, an educational non-profit organization, the credibility it needs to scare the bee-jeezus out of people for the purpose of extracting their time and money. But that ok, TED, because we know that that experience is worth all the effort in the world and we know that the world is but a trap, a river of bondage to some place called Maya.

Ok, gotta go, here comes Kelsey Grammer to get his carton of smokes.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 13:24:38 (GMT)
From: Tim Matheson
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: don't you mean-River of maya to Bondage-
Message:
We are not ashamed of OUR LIVING LORD-MAHARAJI
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 08:34:17 (GMT)
From: Flea in Your Ear
Email: None
To: Tim Matheson
Subject: Tim Matheson ''WE are not ashamed of our Lord''
Message:
WE ARE THE BORG!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 22:10:32 (GMT)
From: Lurker #27
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Yeah Rog, and that's just for STARTERS!!!
Message:
Hell, that's just for starters Rog. Here's more from Shri Hans.

Can there be anyone as sly, as sensual and as bestial as I ? How ungrateful am I, for have I not disowned He who has bestowed me with this precious human body? Constantly satiating my hunger I run after my desires like a village pig after refuse.

Roger you've got to do something to help TED! He can do better than this! A village PIG for fuck sakes!

That poor bastard is trapped in the darkness of the night, and we are counting on you Rog. You've got to help TED!!!!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 22:18:55 (GMT)
From: Boo Radley
Email: None
To: Lurker #27
Subject: #27--Yer So Clear
Message:
#27:

Keep on tellin' it like it is. Yer so clear, it makes me wanna throw ma everclear down the drain. TED, chasing the village PIG (yer hear that, Marianne), is makin' a dang fool outta himself. Heeya Heeya. Maybe TED's happier than a pig 'n shit, but have you smelt TED lately? Even Scout don't wanna go near the hubcap no more. She's afeared she'd catch some of that e coli goin' round here this necka the woods. Cuz TED don' always wash his hand after playin' wit dat village PIG.

Mr. eDrek, I think it's 'bout time you sublet your condo in Camarillo, take a leave from Westlake HQ, and cum downa here and save TED.

Respectfully
Boo Radley (and ma girl Scout--who's sadda than a hang dog cuz the hubcap sichuashun)

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 00:09:52 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Boo Radley
Subject: Boo, girl scouts? Aren't they a little young?
Message:
Boo,

I don't know if you've kept up with everything on the Forum, but there's a lot people here who might have a problem with ya if you're into young girl scouts if ya know what I mean. And, Boo, I know that things are different in Alabama, but I hope they aren't that different. Well, ok, let me be honest that here in Malibu and the whole L.A. movie star and rock star scene that sleeping with young girls or even boys for that matter is not that big of a deal.

Just thought I'd let you know, Boo, in case you wanted to be discreet for the purposes of avoiding the wrath and scorn from other folks on the Forum who are probably from the Midwest or other more conservative parts of the country like Utah.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 18:16:21 (GMT)
From: Lurker #27
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Excellent warning to BOO, Rog!!!!
Message:
Roger,

Just over reading that Shri Hans Yog Prakash again and found this little gem that can help both Boo and TED.

Devotion is as dear to the Holy Name as lovemaking is to a lustful man. Just as a lustful man thinks about making love all the time, so a devotee never ceases to remember the Holy Name.

I don't live in Utah, but I'm going to the Utah in my mind Rog, in my mind. Shri Hans did have four kids didn't he? How do you figure that?

I'm a little confused Rog, didn't get Auto-Knowledge, and you've always had good advice (and good panel too) and I was wondering if you could help me out Rog. Help me come to terms with this. All those things that Shri Hans says about pigs and swine was starting to make me sick.

Any advice?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 23:47:25 (GMT)
From: Boo Radley
Email: None
To: Lurker #27
Subject: Aw, C'mon, Mr. eDrek and #27
Message:
#27 'n Mr. eDrek:

Scout jus' look young but acts olda, don'cha Scout (she's kinda shy, but she lurks)? I ain't doin' nuthin wrong, Scout's ma friend with a mighty strong hankerin' to swing the mighty hubcap, so's long as TED washes his hands 'fore he touches the hubcap and oily rag.

We got plenty a swine and pigs 'n such, #27, so fergit Utah and come on down here where we cin show ya some real pig akshun. Ya heard a squealing lahk a pig, haven'tcha #27? We started that down these here parts, me and ma banjo buddy (he was in Deliverance and is mighty known). We can pop some foamies and later I kin show yer how to squeal like that.

That Shri Hans feller was a smart case, wan't he? Did he invent the hubcap thang too along with all them pig parables?

Respectfully
Boo Radley 'n his friend Scout (Atticus Finch is Scout's daddy, so don'cha be messin' with him, and if ya ever need some good lawyerin', Atticus is yer man). TED favors Atticus, cuz Atticus refers folks down to TED's TRAC center all the time.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 14:15:27 (GMT)
From: Atticus Finch
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Boo is innocent
Message:
Didn't you see our movie or read our book?

When the EV police show up to question you, Boo, take the Fifth Amendment and call me. Tell them you want your lawyer.

Atticus

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 23:50:51 (GMT)
From: Boo Radley
Email: None
To: Atticus Finch
Subject: Hi Mr. Atticus
Message:
Thanks fer standin' up fer me, Mr. Atticus. Don'cha worry, I'm keepin' my spuds peeled to make shure no one's gonna hurt Scout.

Don'cha worry.

Respectfully,
Boo Radley

PS: Scout says 'hi, Daddy'

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 05:30:12 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Boo Radley
Subject: Is she your sister or your daughter, Atticus?
Message:
Something's telling me that there's a propagation going on down in Shaft, Alabama like no other propagation we've ever seen here at Westlake Village. But seeing how the numbers are falling and revenues are dropping we'll take what we can.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Feb 03, 2001 at 19:10:28 (GMT)
From: Boo Radley
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Mr. Atticus' family tree has no branches....
Message:
Thas the way we like it down in Shaft. I afeard Mr. Atticus is bizzy with his lawyering, so I'll tell ya that Scout is his daughter and his niece. The folks down in Shaft like to keep them bloodlines pure, yessir. Heeya heeya.

I sure I speakin' for Mr. Atticus, Scout, and a lotta folks down here when I say we 'preciate you folks, especially you, Mr. eDrek, when you say that Westlake Village HQ is acceptin' of our ways. We can really boost up them numbers fer ya.

Lookin' forward to Mr. Raj's visit, and his brother the Lord of Muzik, Bowling Ji.

An', please Mr. eDrek, talk to TED 'bout washin' his hands. Scout's still mighty afeared a catchin' that eColi. You ain't related to Mr. eColi, are ya, Mr. eDrek?

Resptfully
Boo Radley, a wishin' and a hopin' for yer visit

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 20:40:16 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Pauline Premie
Subject: Fourth Technique While Propagating, Pauline
Message:
We don't want to lose you to the psych ward.

Steve

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 18:21:34 (GMT)
From: gErRy
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: I'm an ol' dawg, but I kin lurn, too
Message:
Ok, I'll bite. Patrick (Anon) sez 'try a little tenderness.' Here's an experiment. I'll rewrite my post to Mike Finch (whoever the heck he is, some big PAM I guess) and then post the original version. Which do you prefer?

The rewrite:

I don't have an opinion on whether M is specially divine, or ordinary mortal - actually I couldn't care less. The question that interests me is: What, if anything, can I get from M and K, whoever and whatever he is ? And I don't believe that this question can be answered by anything other than personal experience - Mike Finch

Yes, you are getting a bit premie-ish when you say the above. And it's this attitude that I find most troubling about Maharaji's organization and it's members: the focus on my 'experience,' what can I get out of it, etc.

This type of thinking disturbs me. The cult turns nice people like you into thoughless, self-centered, self-obsessed people who end up sputtering the nonsense they've internalized. What about the rest the cult victims? The ones that committed suicide over this nonsense, the ones who worked themselves into permanent disability at DECA, or the ones who became seriously mentally ill because they couldn't live up to the guru's scrambled and contradictory 'message?'

What about all these broken people? Is it only YOUR EXPERIENCE that really matters and to hell with the rest of us? You don't care about other victims past or future, as long as you have a nice 'experience.?' I can not countenance this attitude or the self-centered cult apologists who promote it.

And of course the guru is not 'divine.' Can there be any question about this? You need to read the main part of this website and come to a clearer understanding about this. It's time for all of us to grow up and get over this destructive fairy tale.

The Original Version

I don't have an opinion on whether M is specially divine, or ordinary mortal - actually I couldn't care less. The question that interests me is: What, if anything, can I get from M and K, whoever and whatever he is ? And I don't believe that this question can be answered by anything other than personal experience - Mike Finch

OK, Mike, honeymoon's over. Yes, you sure are getting premie-ish when you say the above. And it's this attitude that irks me most about the entire cult: my 'experience,' what I can get, get get out of it etc.

This stuff makes me puke. The cult turns nice people like you into thoughless self-centered droids who end up sputtering nonsense ala Sandford Pass. What about the rest the cult victims? The ones that committed suicide over this nonsense, the ones who worked themselves into permanent disability at DECA, or the ones who became seriously mentally ill because they couldn't live up to Fatass's scrambled and contradictory 'message?'

What about all these broken people, huh? Oh never mind, it's YOUR EXPERIENCE that really matters and fuck the rest of us suckers, right? You don't give a ratass about other victims past or future, right? As long as you have a nice 'experience.' Yeah, you're a real sweetheart and I'm a bulldog because I say fuck this attitude and rotten self-centered cult apologists who promote it.

And of course the fatass guru is not 'divine.' What the fuck !!! Can there be any question about this? Jesus fucking Christ, get real. You REALLY need to read the main part of this website and get your head screwed back on about all this. It's time for Mikey to grow up and get over this destructive fairy tale.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 20:20:19 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Look...
Message:
The 'sat chit anand is all' brand of selfishness promoted by m and premies over the years is faulty - why didn't anyone point this out to me before?

If selfishness were the highest good then:

1. Psychotherapy would never work because love and caring are essential to deep psychotherapy. A patient who suffers from mistrust of people will never be helped by a therapist who's only out for money. If you agree that it is a great satisfaction to feel you have helped someone, then you can say that good psychotherapists are selfish in that they derive much pleasure from helping people. Satsang, service and meditation NEVER included mention of service to your fellow man - only to the matchster (as in 'light a match'). Why is it that the concept of service, over the 30 years that the master of destruction has been in the west, has NEVER been extended to include service to fellow man, including fellow premie, including fellow premie in need, including fellow premie in distress, including fellow premie in great psychological distress.

2. Friendship would be a joke if selfishness were the ultimate rule. And guess what? This is what the great maharatshit has told me - that friendship is a joke. Really helpful in healing the mental illness that he so kindly exacerbated in spades (not, of course).

Steve

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 20:01:18 (GMT)
From: Patrick (formerly Anon)
Email: None
To: gErRy
Subject: Good boy gErRy....don't bite the guest
Message:
Not a bad effort for a hardy ol' mutt like you gErRy. You can bite soft too? Good boy!

I phoned Mike Finch after his initial post and we had a bit of a chat. I reckon there is definitely a drawback with this medium in that a lot of what , in a normal conversation, happens by means of being actually faced with a real person - eye contact , tone of voice etc. -gets lost.
Within this 'lower bandwidth' medium one has to use words and language with more care in order to approximate what is said with expressions and body language normally.

I see that Mike is not yet used to having to be so cautious with his words and of course, he may need to write very clearly here if he wants to communicate.

Ok, my bulldog analogy may be a little unfortunate in that it is not an entirely fair description of Jim or yourself . It wasn't intended to be.

However in some ways it was somewhat fitting since I think ole' Finchy feels that on ringing the doorbell at ex-premie.org. he has encountered some very energetically vociferous creatures who may do him some harm!

I know Finchy -he IS a sensitive flower - sort of - he can be tough when he wants of course. Anyway basically he is a loveable fellow who struck me as having some 'large' qualities that the cult seems fortunately not been able to entirely destroy.

I know him well enough to say that he will consider what you guys say once the initial shock has worn off. I guess for him it is rather like the shock of 'fondling a raw sausage blindfold at a gay party' (as it were)

I happen to think Jim's and your challenges to him were reasonable enough - yes, and I confess, I was a tad surprised at Mike's wounded demeanor about being so criticised. I think he has not really read so much here and needs to do a bit more lurking to see if he feels that he can benefit from this place. I happen to think he would benefit enormously.

I was impressed that he is largely disillusioned with the hypocrisies of premiedom and maybe feels a bit lonesome these days. He would find some like-minded people here I expect - certainly much empathy - however I detect a slight tone that he is so burned from socialising with cultists that he is become a little over keen to fly solo right now - to 'cut off the phone' so to speak.

Anyway. My suggestion to him was to read some of the Journeys here - to gain some trust that not everyone here is keen to eat him alive. Love ya doggies -and you Mike you old softie.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 20:08:35 (GMT)
From: Patrick (formerly Anon)
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Good boy Jim....don't bite the guest
Message:
I'm bringing this up here Jim - it seemed appropriate - sort of keep the dogs together.
------------------
Patrick (formerly Anon) wrote:

Mike was as close to Maharaji as Dettmers in the early days and in my opinion it is worth treating him 'courteously' if we want to benefit from his many salient insights. As it is I would not be entirely surprised if he is not so inspired to remain long I'm afraid. We'll see.

Bulldog 2 (Jim) wrote:

I'd love to hear more from Mike, especially if he has some special, relevant experiences with our former cult leader, but I'm not so sure he's got any, let alone many, 'salient insights' -- yet!

Patrick (formerly Anon) replies herewith:

I’ll rephrase that – he has many very relevant experiences with our former cult leader and is a bit confused at the moment I think – however I trust that salient insights will be forthcoming as soon he realises that our pets don’t actually bite but just get a bit excitable when someone comes to the door.

Bulldog 2 commences to mount leg of stranger (now edging in door)...

Mike, if you're reading this, I'm sorry you didn't get a chance to respond to my long post before it went inactive. Obviously, there's a practical problem at times for new posters in that they're often addressed by a bunch of people, each one wanting a peice of ... oops! I mean, wanting to talk with the new prey.. I mean, person ... oh you know what I mean!

Anyway, that problem's compounded when the new person, as did you, leads with their chin a bit. I mean, tell me you're not asking for it when you come in telling us that you were never caught up like we were (I'd still love to see your argument on this) and implying that there was some golden path none of us ever knew of that took one -- you, in fact -- right through the cult maze and out the other side unfazed. Sorry, Mike, but if you're going to start off like that I'd say that it's you who are challenging us. Anyway, I said it all in my prior post, now inactive.


Patrick (formerly Anon) wrote:

I agree with the thrust of your previous post by the way. I think your points are very valid and I don't want to sound too critical of this forum or those 'bulldogs' who cut people to the quick

Bulldog 2 replied:

Back to you, Patrick:
You really see me like that? Too bad. No, honestly, I mean it. I'm unhappy, quite frankly, that after all the time we've done this together that's how you characterize me. Oh well, 'bulldog' it is, I guess. Ruff, ruff, grr.....

To which Patrick (formerly Anon) unreservedly replies:

I apologise. I really sincerely hope this tag doesn’t stick. It was said kind of lightheartedly and you deserve a better fate than to be known for evermore as Bulldog . So I’ll never call you or Gerry that again- er. as from tomorrow say. ( I can see that neither of you are going to let me forget it – maybe you really like and relate to that characterisation after all!?)

Patrick (formerly Anon) wrote:

Of course I personally appreciate their talents for incisiveness and clarity on many occasions and merely seek to call for a little balance. I wonder whether if they were to be a little more laid back we wouldn't see a crop of fresh people posting here. I think that would be good.

JIM replied:

Hell, Patrick, if it's numbers we're looking for we could do that in an instant. I'm not stupid. I know how to be nice for nice's sake. But what's the point anyway? Just to get a whole bunch of people saying 'hi' to each other? Forget it. Not interested.

Anyway, you know what might be interesting? To get Dettmers' two cents on all this. After all, he's one who got it coming and going when he first began posting. He's also the poster boy of the 'At-least-I-had-what-it-takes-to-get-past-my-own-bullshit' movement. Mike? Dettmers? You here? What do you think? Tone it down? Tone it up? Either? Neither? What?

Patrick (formerly Anon) herewith says:

I agree with you. We’ll leave the numbers game to people who it means a lot to. As regards what we should or shouldn’t do – I’m not really going to try to hard to influence the tone of the discussions here – just occasionally I’ll say the way I would like to see it pan out and maybe that will resonate with some people or not -whatever. This is a free zone.

Patrick (formerly Anon) wrote:
You are right that some of my friends aren't really ready to post on a public forum yet.

JIM wrote:

That's obviously all your fault. Report to HQ in the morning, Anon. And yes, the airport's are being monitored. Don't try anything foolish.

Patrick (formerly Anon) replies:

.yes sir...no sir …thank you sir…

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 20:00:24 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: gErRy
Subject: The rewrite is good, the original is rude but good
Message:
Kudos gErRy! I do not want to be a part of ANY touchy-feely movement where all we do is think of ourselves, our own comfort, and our own 'precious' experience. Sounds like yuppy Shirley McClain stuff to me.

I think that's what drove me to Buddhism. Even though i can't agree with everything there either, at least the basic philosophy about compassion and kindness makes sense. It makes sense even if someone doesn't care at all about Buddha.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 19:19:02 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: delores@gofree.indigo.ie
To: Everyone
Subject: I may not always agree with...
Message:
gerry and Jim, and sometimes I really think you both have to tone down your attack dog methods, but I tell you this when I think you have gone overboard.

When I first came here about 2 years ago, I also thought people 'attacked' each other too much, and that it was too negative. I've changed my mind. Learning about the forum means learning about our different voices. If you don't like what someone says, don't read them. Including when they respond to your own post. I die of curiosity when that happens and get sucked into responding, or into whatever emotional reaction I have. That is my own emotional stuff.

Part of the forum is dealing with life as it is, not how we fantasize it should be.

Even though you have hurt and offended exes that I dearly love, gErRy and Gerry, I still love you too. Being real is hard and it hurts. Learn to avoid certain people if their posts hurt you too much. Embrace those who inspire you. Find your own path. That's what it is all about.

Marianne

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 19:15:21 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: gErRy
Subject: The rewrite is better
Message:
In both versions, you make the same points. The points are all valid, in both versions, but in the first version, the valid points were obscured by the insults. No one can tolerate being spoken to in such a condecending and insulting way. It is the insults that they remember and respond to, and the valid points are ignored or forgotten.

p.s. the rewrite is not yet fully effective, still too abrasive. Try again, and compliment Mike on his intellectual satsang that you admired so often at programs. (Just kidding).

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 20:00:31 (GMT)
From: gErRy
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Way check this out...purrrrrrr
Message:
I don't have an opinion on whether M is specially divine, or ordinary mortal - actually I couldn't care less. The question that interests me is: What, if anything, can I get from M and K, whoever and whatever he is ? And I don't believe that this question can be answered by anything other than personal experience - Mike Finch

Mike, I wouldn't worry about being 'premie-ish.' Just speak from your heart and we'll hear you. One of the things which bothers me about Maharaji's organization and it's members, is the focus on personal experience, without consideration of the effects the other aspects of the cult have upon the individual.

This omission disturbs me. The cult seems to turn nice people into somewhat self-centered, self-obsessed people who end up repeating, without thoughtful consideration, the satsang they've internalized.

Please think for a moment about these other people who may not have been as fortunate as you and I: the ones that committed suicide over these misunderstandings, the ones who worked themselves into permanent disability at DECA, or the ones who became seriously mentally ill because they couldn't live up to the guru's scrambled and contradictory 'message?'

What about all these broken people? Is it only OUR EXPERIENCE that really matters? I can not condone this attitude or the self-centered people who promote it. I can't believe you don't care about other victims past or future, even though you may be having (or had) a nice 'experience.' I think you probably DO care, very much.

And of course the guru is not 'divine.' Can there be any question about this? Please take the time to read the main part of this website. It may help you come to a clearer picture of all this. It's time for all of us to grow in our understanding and get over this destructive fairy tale.

How's that?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 01:06:34 (GMT)
From: Mike Finch
Email: None
To: gErRy
Subject: That's better !!
Message:
OK, Gerry, this third attempt was pretty good. I don't know if you read my response to your first attempt in Lesley's thread below, but let me respond to the gentler, kinder Gerry.

My gentler, kinder response goes like this:

Yes Gerry, I agree that the premie thing about 'my experience' can get up your nose.

However, I still think that caring about one's own experience is pretty important, and that in any case everyone DOES care about their experience, whether they like it or not. If you really didn't care about your experience, you'd be dead or insane.

But you seem to be saying it is ONE thing or the OTHER. Because someone cares about their experience, they cannot care for others. For some people that may be true, but for many people it clearly isn't. My experience is important to me, BUT SO IS my concern for others.

It was your assumption that because I talked about my experience (albeit in a way that clearly pushed a button in you), I did not care about the shit poured on anyone else.

In the gentler kinder Gerry post, you admit you do not know me. How can you possibly know what my level of concern and care is ??

For the record, I DO care very much. I guess that is why I am posting now -- if I didn't care I would have kept my head below the parapet, and just wallowed in 'my experience'.

-- Mike

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 01:55:51 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Mike Finch
Subject: the experience thing
Message:
Actually Mike, you didn't really talk about your 'experience' other than to say it's important to you. When I hear people saying that they don't care about Rawat's personal life, they care only about their 'experience,' it does indeed 'get up my nose.' This says to me that meditation, being 'inspired by the Speaker' and the high of 'events' is so important that they are willing to overlook what a rotten and corrupt organization they are supporting.

And the ironic part of all this is that these same people could have the 'experience' without Rawat, EV and all that messy baggage. In other words it's unnecessary, and they are only helping keep afloat a harmful cult. OK, so it's supposedly a little more benign these days, and I understand that 'things have evolved.'

I don't think we are talking about an 'either/or' situation: either the experience, or the compassionate caring. No, I'm not saying that at all. My objection is that the Rawat Scam is still being perpetrated upon people and the cult is still out there fishing for fresh blood. That's what 'gets up my nose.'

Mike, this really isn't personal. Like you said, I don't know you at all and have no idea what your level of compassion is, and that's completely beside the point. Actually, I'm quite happy you're here glad, and that you've decide to join the conversation. I have a feeling your presence here is going to be very interesting and I mean that in a positive manner.

See ya around...

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 02:25:26 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: 'Experience'? R.I.P.
Message:
One good word lost in the war for our minds. The word is like a blocking signal preventing Radio Free Premie from getting through. Why? Because the word is smugly -- and quite wrongly --juxtaposed against the supposedly less meaningful and signifcant functions of our minds. It's a conversation stopper and that's exactly what the hindu siren song meant it to be.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 11:52:18 (GMT)
From: Mike Finch
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: 'Experience'? R.I.P.
Message:
I agree I was using 'experience' in two senses: common mental functioning versus divine insight !

I have posted a fuller response to you and others on this thread in Joes' thread just opened above.

-- Mike

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 04:28:39 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Am I having tuning problems Jim?
Message:
Or is it that this place is starting to smell like the chat rooms after satsang?

Did someone turn the speakers down as well?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 00:22:17 (GMT)
From: Conlon
Email: None
To: gErRy
Subject: Gerry, that is purrrrrrrfect
Message:
That's the way to talk politely to newcomers. Then they start to feel that they will be heard. Then, if they start talking crap, go for the jugular.

As Francesca said, most of the recent newcomers do not want to be involved in some touchy feely forum. And yes, she like me, found the premies' infantile self-involvement and obsession with their ''experience'' disgusting.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 21:41:22 (GMT)
From: Patrick (formerly Anon)
Email: None
To: gErRy
Subject: Who says you can't teach an old dog new tricks?
Message:
Nah... I think I prefer the old Rottweiler...you're starting to sound like me now. That won't do. Go BITE!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 22:14:44 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Patrick (formerly Anon)
Subject: To Patrick - Oh my god, I didn't did I?
Message:
I posted this below but it's about to go inactive - Who first gave you satsang? Was it some bespectacled youth with some newspapers and leaflets on the top of a hill at a free rock concert in Sussex?

John.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 01:31:26 (GMT)
From: Patrick (formerly Anon)
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: To Patrick - Oh my god, I didn't did I?
Message:
Cissbury Ring !! YEA

Hey I've got you tagged - I remember you totally now - you've got dark hair -of course -I hope you don't think me rude to have forgotten you -How amazing to find you here! Incredible!

It's weird because I was thinking about that fateful day on Cissbury Ring - which for general info. is a very significant Iron Age Hill Fort site on the South Downs near Worthing in Sussex, England. Sort of a ley line convergence -cosmic spot for us aspiring hippies at that time.

I went there with some mates to a rock concert and lo, this JHB chap here approached, complete with nectar dripping, blissed-out grin like a melon, with some satsang and literature about the young Satguru of our Time!
Seriously though John, you struck me as very blissed out.
Our paths cross again! Love ya
Patrick Wilson
PS I hope you're still so happy BTW!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 07:23:45 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: brauns@apollo.lv
To: Patrick (formerly Anon)
Subject: To Patrick - Oh my god, I didn't did I?
Message:
Patrick,

I don't recall being so happy, just very nervous about talking to total strangers about something I had very little experience of.

I feel really odd about this, maybe a little guilty and embarrassed. There are two people I'm aware of that received knowledge as a result of my satsang - my brother and you. My brother rejected Maharaji a long time ago, and sadly later died. I'm glad you got out too:-)

Do you know what happened to Noel, Bob, Tim, and any other of the Brighton premies? I last saw Noel at a program in Miami in about 1980. I think he was living in California at the time. He was definitely my favourite in satsang.

Email me if you like.

All the best,

John.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 20:20:12 (GMT)
From: Lesley
Email: None
To: gErRy
Subject: Grr, I've become accustomed to your snarrrll
Message:
Yeah, ookay, it is probably easier to read for Mike in one way, and I like the unfolding that occurs when you acknowledge that he probably really does care too, and it is just premie confusion making him say things he doesn't really mean, but i MISS the clearcut grrs, the ready expression of what you think!

The rain is pouring down here, the creek is flooded, and the plants are no longer singing the praises of the rain, infact they are complaining about stretching cellulose and weighty branches grumble and swear blind they will spit the dummy if the winds start.

Lesley, the plant admirer.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 20:19:57 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: gErRy
Subject: Hey!!
Message:
You must have had help. Admit it. Who was your ghost writer?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 20:31:58 (GMT)
From: gErRy
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Hey!!
Message:
naw, I dun it all myself. BUT IT HURT REAL BAD !!!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 19:23:43 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: And, Marianne,
Message:
I agree with your feelings about our bad guys, bless their hearts!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 19:21:59 (GMT)
From: Carol
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: The rewrite is better,I agree. Kudos, Gerry! nt
Message:
OK :~)
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 19:20:32 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: delores@gofree.indigo.ie
To: Way
Subject: Love ya, Way
Message:
The ps was priceless.

Marianne

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 17:35:59 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Don't get lost - it's all here
Message:
The Anything Goes forum, eDrek's site and all the rest is

Here!

By the way, I did try to start a web ring using Yahoo but it didn't work properly and I abandoned it.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 09:28:15 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: EV sponsoship campaign (new stuff on EPO)
Message:
EV sponsorship campaign on Elan Vital Today

Be a sponsor

The Vision The Opportunity (Hamster on stage)

I want to be a sponsor (Open your wallet)

You're invited to participate (Premies at a video event)

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 18:13:36 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Fixed new page: EV Sponsorship Campaign
Message:
Here you go :

Be a Sponsor !!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 12:19:43 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Thanks again, JM (FPMWW)
Message:
Who writes that stuff, anyway! Sheesh...
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 19:17:34 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: A serious question
Message:
Why should contributions to spreading multi-millionaire Maharaji's message be tax-deductible?

.
.
.

And who should I be asking this question to, J-M?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 10:27:09 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: A serious issue? Deserving a special page?
Message:
This is so because of EV's present status! A lot has already been written about it.

It looks like there is a lot of reasons to question this very status, but if you want to go further, you should ask some lawyer's advice.

What could also be done, is gather all the facts, and make a special page dedicated on this on EPO. Do you want to work on this ? I'll do the layout when you'll be over.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 16:18:24 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Everyone
Subject: EVI? - HEY MAHA, YOU FORGOT THE 'L' NT
Message:
NT
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 04:58:15 (GMT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: god of Amaroo
Message:
guru in the sky
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 03:26:24 (GMT)
From: Monmot
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Minister Gets 60 Yrs. For Child Abuse (OT maybe)
Message:
Picked this up from Salon.com:

Baptist minister sentenced for sexual abuse of children

- - - - - - - - - - - -
JENNIFER HOLLAND

Jan. 30, 2001 | GREENWOOD, S.C. (AP) -- It will be difficult for this small town to forget how a minister hired to serve the area's growing Hispanic population instead preyed on its children.

But the Rev. Fernando Garcia's crimes are not easily discussed by the people he was supposed to help.

The 42-year-old Baptist minister was sentenced to 60 years in prison Monday after he admitted to sexually molesting nearly two dozen children and videotaping the acts.

'Ninety percent of the parents ... are still in denial,' said grocery store owner Genara Bautista.

Victims and their parents have turned down counseling services offered by community leaders, Bautista said.

'They don't think it will help the kids later on,' she said.

Garcia admitted in court to abusing 23 children, ages 5 to 13. He pleaded guilty to 32 counts of performing lewd acts and 15 counts of criminal sexual conduct.

He said he is an example of what can happen without that counseling. As a boy growing up in Mexico, Garcia said he was abused by a Roman Catholic priest.

'Your kids need special counseling,' he said. 'What you are seeing here is the result of somebody who never took the chance to be counseled.'

Garcia stared at the courtroom floor while the mother of two of the victims, boys who were 10 and 12 years old at the time, called Garcia 'this evil incarnate' and said her family would never be the same.

The judge took 15 minutes to review 62 photographs from the videotapes and hand down sentences that totaled 60 years.

At least one Greenwood parent said it wasn't enough.

'I have children and if somebody did that to them I'd want the death penalty,' Sandra Bryan said.

The encounters with the children took place at Garcia's church office and at an elementary school where he worked as a library aide.

Police said they found in Garcia's office 26 videotapes of him sexually abusing children. The tapes came to light after an 8-year-old boy told his mother in May he had been molested by Garcia. Garcia was arrested two days later.

Police also found a list of 145 names indicating Garcia may have molested more children.

Police said the videotapes also showed at least two other victims, one from Atlanta and another from Carson City, Nev. They said those cases would not likely be pursued because investigators could not pinpoint where and when the attacks took place.

The local school district and church said nothing turned up in their background checks before Garcia was hired. Police and prosecutors said Garcia did not have a criminal record.

'Not having the ability to recognize him as this type of person
doesn't ease the pain for the community,' said Randy Vaughn, assistant superintendent for the school district. 'This situation
has caused us to examine our procedures.'

Garcia came strongly recommended when he arrived here in 1998 to work with the Abbeville Baptist Association, leaving a ministry in Carson City. He was hired to serve the growing Hispanic population in this textile town of 20,000 people.

He held Sunday night services in Spanish at a local church and performed counseling.

Garcia's wife, Leticia, sobbed as she spoke in Spanish about her
husband. 'This is a different Fernando than what I used to know,'
she said through an interpreter.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 01:05:49 (GMT)
From: Ebay Alert
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Inner Game of Tennis 1st Ed. W T Gallwey
Message:
Stumbled upon this today. It is a book about tennis with a mention of Coach Maharaji in the Dedication. He also mentions his mother and father. I thought that Maharaji was all three.

Go here to bid on it: Coach Maharaji


This is a hard cover book entitled: 'The Inner Game of Tennis' by W. Timothy Gallwey, Random House, N Y, 1974. This appears to be a First edition. Has a 1974 Copyright, and Library of Congress Cataloging of 73-20582. This is the famous author who wrote fantastic books on sports with the title 'Inner Game..' A real psychological approach to the sport of tennis. The book has the dedication 'for my mother and father who brought me to the Game and for Guru Maharaj Ji who showedme what Winning is.' The book measures 8 1/2 by 9 1/2 inches and has 142 pages. Book in Ex condition. Chapters are: Reflections on Mental Side, Discover of 2 Selves, Quieting the Mind; Letting it Happen, Master Tips, Changing Habits, Concentration, Games People Play on the Court, The Meaning of Competition and The Inner Game off the Court.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 23:41:29 (GMT)
From: Jean-Paul
Email: jfagnaux@hotmail.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Exchange
Message:
The premie who has the courage to come here whatever his motivation, is looking for something. This may be comfort, explanations, exchange, they may try to convince us with their view of things etc… To insult them is not the effective nor the human way. Don't we have also love? This doens't mean to be stupid and mellow mellow.. If they feel comfortable, they will express more their feelings and thougths and they will be more confident. When you place yourself in the position of somebody who has understood everything and you consider the other as an primitive idiot, what can we expect from the exchange? All the ex are not clever bij definition and all the premies are not stupid bij definition.To be too much reactif is no good. If you listen good, the time comes when you can say the essential, it has more impact if the other is open without his mecanismes of defense. After everybody is free to think as he wants. You don't give the impression that you want to push or convince. Those who have a lot of anger can express it, it is good, but not against the new persons who visit this site. We have something common. We have been on the same road.
Of course, if somebody wants to give systematically satsang without nuance, things are different.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 13:30:55 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Jean-Paul
Subject: Thanks again J.M.....nt
Message:
asdg
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 21:54:06 (GMT)
From: Jean-Paul
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: JM and JP not same
Message:
JM is Jean-Michel who is french. I am Jean-Paul who is Belgian.
I like Jean-Michel but we are different. We are not one the same person.
Everyone has his onwn colour. May be he likes Debussy but i like Schubert.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 00:44:59 (GMT)
From: Tim G
Email: \
To: Jean-Paul
Subject: Thanks Jean Paul..for a bit of sanity nt
Message:
qw
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 18:03:37 (GMT)
From: postie
Email: None
To: Jean-Paul
Subject: True. True.
Message:
As a way-too-long lurker and former revisionist-fencesitter and current cautiously optimistic poster, your comments are right on. For me.

The exchange here has been often intriguing and thought provoking, but useful only after filtering out all the paint ball fights and sibling rivalry. There is a thread below (inactive) that began with a sincere question to Dettmers which he answered that was then followed by, perhaps 8 related posts. Those 8 were followed by (at last count) 70 or 80 inane quibbling, bitchy or totally OT and unrelated posts. Why? Was Dettmers response of such value that it resulted in such inanities. It surely doesn't inspire convidence for the wavering multitudes looking for the exit door.

The biggest change for me personally dealing with my years of M & K, was when Susan posted her attempt at communicating with M via Michael Dettmers and Dettmers subsequent revelations. That kind of honest and brave communication is what will give many others the similar courage to face their relationship with M & K in a truthful way.

Postie

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 13:30:00 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: postie
Subject: Thanks, Postie
Message:
I am guilty of both of going off topic and engaging in sibling rivalry (snicker - good way to put it!). I guess if Robyn is going to try and stay on topic, then I can do it too (double snicker). Anyway, good post. Hope to hear more from you.

Take care,
Katie

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 04:03:55 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: postie
Subject: True. True.
Message:
Dear Postie, Jean-Paul and all,
I agree whole heartedly with Jean-Paul, Postie and many others that have come, gone and stayed here.
I have even recently with the increase in posting, decided to stay on topic. Very hard but neccessary with the speed at which threads are going inactive.
Love and welcome to life beyond m,
Robyn
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 18:29:31 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Jm/Robyn/postie
Subject: True. True.
Message:
What a welcome surprise JM to read your sane and thoughtful post. I agree with you very much.

I hope we all do have love. Thankfully good does manage to get done here, despite all the competitiveness and spitefulness and fighting. I fear though that only the most tenacious of souls stick around here to glean the good. What of the more timid premies out there who are very intimidated by the site or who just see it as people in their minds and proof of Maharaji's rotten veggie prophecies?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 00:01:48 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: Sorry Jean Paul
Message:
Can't keep those sexy Frenchmen's names straight....
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 23:24:22 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: Jean-Paul NOT Jean-Michel (JM) (NT)
Message:
gfakrhg[q
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 05:25:58 (GMT)
From: Postie
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Thanks Robyn (nt)
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 22:26:18 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Karen and Nina hold their breath (from ELK)
Message:

Friendly Filipinos!

:
Dear EL

Its good to be back after such a long break. It's not until you have something taken away that you appreciate how precious it is.

While we were off line, there have been some huge changes in this country. We have been through bombings and deaths and injuries just after Xmas (one of them at the end of our street) and protests and impeachments and political instability, resulting in a new president and a show of 'people power' once again in the Philippines.

There is still the garbage crisis, and even though the garbage gets taken away periodically, there is nowhere to dispose of it in and around Metro Manila. Flies are buzzing and the weather gets hotter!

But then there is Knowledge and all the gifts that that brings, and propagation rocks; People with Knowledge get more vocal and dreams of inviting M (although on hold due to the political situation) are still being worked on!

Nina and I have gone from being lazy, laid back people, who soaked up the love like sponges to busy and stretched national and regional contacts in the short space of a year! Our biggest goal is to get some others trained and equipped to that we can have a sweet 'passing over' back to Filipinos in this their own country. Then we can go back to lazy days and sun drenched beaches. Our tans have faded by the light of the computer!

Aspirants are up by 50 per cent here in Makati, a district in Manila. The new kid on the 'block' was told about Maharaji only two days ago and is enthusiastic and sure. Her only question to date: 'Why did I not know earlier?' She was introduced by a cyber friend in Vancouver who has had Knowledge for 25 years.

[Emphasis added. So what I want to know is why that's a good thing, the fact that this 'new kid' has so far only asked one question, and an innoucuous one at that. It's like listening in to a sales meeting where the rep's are talking about the fish they've trying to reel in.]

Another aspirant here asked us to send one of Maharaji's daily quotes to his friend, who is now asking for more information.

All the aspirants throughout Philippines are asking for Knowledge and asking when they will be able to see Maharaji. It is poignant, because so far, we cannot say. But the process is beautiful and we all know that soon it will happen.

[Emphasis added. So let's see if I've got this right. Peopel get sucked in to the cult to the extent that they ask for the thing the cult's trying to sell them. Hey, what a surprise! They then ask about seeing the cult leader, again because they're supposed to. Karen and Nina can't say so somehow that's 'poignant'? What's that?]

Someone else with Knowledge came from New York and gave us names of interested persons, some of whom live up near the rice terraces a long hard drive from here. So we are off up country soon to 'check it all out' brimming with love and heart and some materials! Watch this space for updates.

There are 14 more locations listening to audios in Kalibo and we are still trying to supply all the cassette players for this. At present it is on a rota! So life is unfolding here, as always, with fast pace and passion, while Knowledge is settling down here with love and joy.

We hope you enjoyed his little episode in our lives, and we hope to keep you posted for the future.

With much love and a warm hearts,

Karen and Nina

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 23:04:09 (GMT)
From: SpacyT
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Personal 'dig' at the Judge
Message:
Is it the Nature of the Judge to be able to see both sides of the story?

Or just to make the Judgement and then stick to it at all costs?

Can you remember the other side of the story...
or does that seem like just an insane dream now?

Maybe it was.... but then so was childhood love...
or wasn't it? Did you get rocked by emotions then that you can't really relate to now?

But please don't condemn us all because we don't see things like you do.

Because to my way of seeing things, you have actually got it all wrong...

but I can live with that if you can too.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 23:39:19 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: SpacyT
Subject: Great name, you got there kid
Message:
Sounds like you're just waking up or something. Sorry, did we bother you?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 21:31:56 (GMT)
From: Charles S
Email: bctanda@hotmail.com
To: Joe and Everyone
Subject: Premies and Exes from the 70's, 80's and 90's...
Message:
Joe, our thread below just slipped into the inactive index (thanks, trolls), so I am continuing from your last post here:

Joe's last post:

[quoting Charles S.]: In 1997, M. 'danced', if you could call it that, on the stage at Long Beach, in his SUIT. He just waved his arms around and strutted a bit. No Krishna crown or costume. And only for a minute or so. Many of the older premies went wild. I figured it was a nostalgia treat for the older premies. All these women were waving their hands in the air and crying, with mascara running down their faces like Tammy Faye Baker.

This must have been the video I saw. I saw the same reaction, as the camera panned the audience. But not only that, Charles, prior to that there was a long segement during which devotional songs were sung to Maharaji, and they were the exact same devotional songs we sang in the 70s, including one entitled 'PLEASE PLEASE TEACH ME DEVOTION' and 'WHEN WILL YOU DANCE WITH ME AGAIN.' The devotional stuff was not at all subtle, it was pretty blatant.

I don't think I ever saw a throne at any of his western events. You had mentioned in an earlier post that you thought the throne was making a come-back. Perhaps the Indian events? I didn't see too many of those.

Well, I think the last time I saw Maharaji on a 'throne' was at Guru Puja festival in July, 1982, which was, in fact the last 'festival' I went to when I still considered myself a premie. That was in Miami. But even though the chair he sat in in that 1997 program on the video didn't have a big, high, back on it, he was still sitting high up on a stage above everyone, and even up on a dias on the stage, and so it was, for all practical purposes, a 'throne.'

I would imagine programs in Amaroo are even more that way, and I think he chose to give darshan there, hoping it was far enough out in the middle of nowhere that no one outside the die-hard premie community would notice.

[charles s. replies]:

Joe:

I think I made a mistake about 1997. It was the 1996 Long Beach Event that I described to you, and that you may have seen on the video. It may have happened in '97 too, if there was an event, but if there was we didn't go. 1996 Long Beach was the last big event we attended. The only other event with M. was one in Oakland in 1998, a one day thing, quite boring and unmemerable. Everything else we have seen has been on video.

Up until the 1996 Long Beach event, I would say the 'devotion' aspect was pretty subtle. I had thought the Long Beach stuff was an nostalgia thing for the older premies, rather than a trend. But not having attended other major events in the west since then, I really can't say. His American events really dropped off after that. It would be interesting to hear from someone who attended the last event in Miami, to see if anything similar happend. It would be great to have some current information. Anyone got some?

Joe, you said to me in an earlier post:
''...you may have received knowledge and were not asked to surrender the reigns of your life, but the vast majority of premies, including what appears to be the majority of current premies, were indoctrinated by him in that way, and he fulfilled the carried out the role.''

The most recent person I know who recieved special K. was in 1995, and I am certian he wasn't asked to 'surrender the reigns of his life'. When you say the vast majority of premies were indoctinated in that way, what do you mean? In the 70's? I wouldn't doubt it. In the 80's and 90's? I would be suprised. Is that your opinion, an educated guess, or are there facts and statistics I'm not aware of? I'm not critisizing your opinions, I just would really like to know, if there are any statistics or educated guesses. I feel there are a lot of 70's exes here. But what about the 80's and 90's premies or exes. Where are they?

The Organizational Machine bringing people to knowledge nowadays is much smoother and slicker now, and subtle is the rule, at least with new people. Perhaps it gets less subtle the more involved you get. But the Current Organizational Machine is operated by smiley-faced church ladies, and it wants desparately to be respectable and non-controversial, which is why so much effort is going into re-writing the inconvenient past. The intent might still be 'surrender the reigns of your life', but you can bet the language in nothing like that. And remember, there are no ashrams anymore. They don't necessarily want the actual reigns of peoples lives. They just need them to buy broadcast subscriptions and videos, and send checks, and be nice and respectable and middle class, untainted from the inconvenient past. Especially if M. intends to open up his broadcasts to the general public.

I would be really interested to know, if any of the people who post or lurk here, are premies or exes who recieved k. in the 80's or 90's. How about it, people? When did YOU recieve special K? I get the impression that most of the people here did recieve K. in the 70's. Does that mean that the people who recieved K. in the 80's and 90's are so content, that they don't come here, or that they've gotten so BORED, that they simply drifted away, without much fuss, because the ju-ju was never very strong on them, and it's mostly 70's premies struggling with the current scene? What do you think, Joe?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 04:34:02 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Charles S and Joe
Subject: From de 70s
Message:
Charles:

Actually, it was 'surrender the reins,' like you were a horse or something. It is from his early satsangs, but at least up until 1974 the main propagation film was 'Who is Guru Maharaj Ji?' by Jacques Sandoz, with title song written and sung by Allan Thomas. This 'surrender the reins' bit was in there.

I saw the film at least 50 times. Maybe 100. Not kidding. Any excuse to show it would do, unashamedly to the public.

We were also asked by other premies, initiators, and mahatmas, 'would you cut off your head for guru Maharaj Ji?' We were yelled at with all sorts of intimidating 'I am not worthy' crap. It was fire and brimstone. It was S & M. We were stupid, gullible and sincere. Dumb, straight and queer!

Pass the barf bag please!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 23:15:28 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Charles S
Subject: Premies and Exes from the 70's, 80's and 90's...
Message:
I think I made a mistake about 1997. It was the 1996 Long Beach Event that I described to you, and that you may have seen on the video. It may have happened in '97 too, if there was an event, but if there was we didn't go. 1996 Long Beach was the last big event we attended. The only other event with M. was one in Oakland in 1998, a one day thing, quite boring and unmemerable. Everything else we have seen has been on video.

I still have the video. It was one Jim got from somebody and had it copied. I would have to look to see if it was 1996 or 1997, but it was just as you described.

His American events really dropped off after that. It would be interesting to hear from someone who attended the last event in Miami, to see if anything similar happend. It would be great to have some current information. Anyone got some?

True, he has done very few events in North America or Europe in a long time. Some would say this website has something to do with that. According to information we have gotten, he doesn't want to tour anymore, just do satellite, and maybe an event in Amaroo. But I don't think that includes India, and the Indian diaspora, for whom he is still God, and for whom he still does darshan, although Amaroo is a darshan-safe-area too. So, he will probably tour there bringing his lotus feet with him.

The most recent person I know who recieved special K. was in 1995, and I am certian he wasn't asked to 'surrender the reigns of his life'. When you say the vast majority of premies were indoctinated in that way, what do you mean?

I don't know how many people have received knowledge in the 90s, but based on what the audience looked like in the video, mostly middle aged, and based on the fact that the leadership of the cult is still very much those of the 70s, I would imagine that most of the active premies are from the 70s. I don't have statistics, it just appears that way. And they were all asked to surrender the reigns of their lives to Maharaji, were mostly indoctrinated that he was God, and the rest. Those indoctrinations die hard, and it appears Maharaji is actively doing things to reinforce those indoctrinations, rather than the reverse.

I would be really interested to know, if any of the people who post or lurk here, are premies or exes who recieved k. in the 80's or 90's.

One person I know, who posts here as 'TD' received knowledge in 1995 and is very much an ex-premie. She was outraged that nobody told her about the Lord of the Universe period and doubts she would ever have gotten involved if she knew. She got involved through her boyfriend, who was quite a bit older, and a premie from the 70s. She and others have reported that the majority of the active PWKs received knowledge in the 70s, and that it is mostly a middle-aged group. Other people in other communities have reported the same thing. And as I said, all the leadership is from the 70s, too.

Others reported that a bunch of people received knowledge in the mid-90s, but most of them faded away pretty quickly. Seems you have to kinda believe in the God-thing to be motivated to keep accepting Maharaji as your 'master.' But I'm sure there are exceptions.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 21:52:28 (GMT)
From: Steve
Email: None
To: Charles S
Subject: Premies and Exes from the 70's, 80's and 90's...
Message:
Yep, I think you got it right.
It's us ex-premies fro the '70's/'80's who got it real bad.
Steve.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 22:21:38 (GMT)
From: SpacyT
Email: None
To: Steve
Subject: Premies and Exes from the 70's, 80's and 90's...
Message:
I know I am an unwelcome '70s troll here.
perhaps it is just the mencholic air that draws me in.

..but do you still like to practice Knowledge?

..I mean would you like to be free from the whole scene that got plastered over you ,,, but still practice Knowledge...

Do a lot of exes still feel that sort of thing is possible..

I am not trying to muck this forum about tonight.
Sorry if I have given that impression up till now.

Tracy

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 22:50:23 (GMT)
From: Steve
Email: None
To: SpacyT
Subject: Premies and Exes from the 70's, 80's and 90's...
Message:
Far from it, I gather a lot of ex-premies still practice k but realize they don't need him and it's nothing exclusive to DLM/EV
Me, I can't be bothered with any of that crap no more!
Steve.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 22:34:31 (GMT)
From: Gregg
Email: None
To: SpacyT
Subject: Practicing 'Knowledge'
Message:
Not to play word games or anything, but most exes who meditate don't call it 'practicing Knowledge.' Although Maha and his minions say that technically Knowledge is already inside... it is just 'revealed' by the Master, in effect, they still call it the GIFT of Knowledge, as if it were his to give. Not!

What most exes seem to practice, judging from their comments here, seems to differ in many essential ways from the 'knowledge practice' of days gone by.

One meditation is not 'better' than another, but neither are all meditation techniques/experiences the same. Most of us meditating exes (as opposed to the many here who place meditation in the same category as crop circles and ectoplasm) have found practices that fit our psyches better, and besides, do not have the taint of Rawat about them.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 23:36:54 (GMT)
From: Steve
Email: None
To: Gregg
Subject: Practicing 'Knowledge'
Message:
So wonderful!
You've at least had the common sense to turn your back on the big fat one, but you still think this k is something to practice?
Wake up!
Steve (special k'd in 73).
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 22:51:03 (GMT)
From: SpacyT
Email: None
To: Gregg
Subject: Practicing 'Knowledge'
Message:
As long it gets to the heart of the things...
then that is all that should matter.

personally I find that there is no taint of personality or form or any of the attributes that are called 'Rawat' here, in practicing Knowledge.... but I know that is not how it is for you.

Still there are many strands of different feelings to be found here, and one might wonder how the barriers will dissolve, allowing people to feel what we want.

I know that many here will say that that will happen whem M somehow exits from their life, but I don't think so.

Many here appear more bound up with him 'Personally' than in the 'premie world', where one might be more bound up with experiencing Knowledge...

I sense an irony (there is a better word that I cannot think of) in this, that I have otherwise called the 'Sisapulan Complex' after the incarnation of Ravanna that gave Krishna some bother.

Do you want to comment on this?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 23:11:51 (GMT)
From: Conlon
Email: pdconlon@yahoo.com
To: SpacyT
Subject: 'Sisapulan Complex'
Message:
The fact that Rawat is talked about by exes more than PWKs is indeed a source of discomfort to me sometimes. It becomes easier as you distance yourself from him. Many exes have expressed a concern that they are becoming ''distaff'' premies.

Many of us still meditate, some even use the old techniques but, as Gregg said, talking about it here is like mentioning crop circles or ufo's. And that is as it should be. Meditation is as private as masturbation and should be talked about only by consenting adults in the privacy of one's own home.

You will not find anyone here proselytizing either. Why bother when the techniques are freely avaible and you can use them or not as it suits you.

There are little cliques here but nearly everyone is quite idiosyncratic and there are many disagreements unlike the cult where you have to be ''synchronized'' into a ''team.''

Probably the only thing that we agree on is that we have parted company from Rawat and his personality cult.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 18:22:32 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Conlon
Subject: 'Sisapulan Complex'
Message:
Pat:

I take your comment quite seriously that we must restrain from prostletyzing to others, since everyone is one this forum because they were prostetyzed to, and bit the hook (or are thinking about biting it).

But at the same time, talking about what we are doing now, if we are not prostetyzing that is, is part of some folks' process of moving on, which is also part of the stories being told here. It may also help some folks sort out their feelings about meditation -- though obviously some have sorted that out a long time ago and don't have a problem with it. Their either don't, or do, meditate.

I also understand that folks keep tying in 'K' and other forms of meditation with Maharaji. I promise folks, that it is not inextricably intertwined. I certainly found it wasn't, when I got to the end of my rope.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 23:10:16 (GMT)
From: Gregg
Email: None
To: SpacyT
Subject: Practicing 'Knowledge'
Message:
You said: 'Many here appear more bound up with him 'Personally' than in the 'premie world', where one might be more bound up with experiencing Knowledge...'

So in the 'premie world' they don't think much about Maharaj Ji?
They don't go to programs, watch videos? Who does, then?

I can see where you might get the idea that ex-premies are fixated on Maharaji, since he is the real subject of this forum, but, I can assure you, when I leave my desk in five minutes to go watch my daughter in a Brownie ceremony and then go home and make dinner and help her practice the piano and grade papers and talk to my wife and meditate and go to bed...Rawat will not cross my mind once.

Judging from the EV poetry I read here, that is not the case with practicing premies!

I visit this site because I find the M-cult thing fascinating, the people here funny and smart, and, plus, it's a good chance to write a little every day. It's like journaling.

I take that back...I'll think of GMJ perhaps once more...after dinner, when I check this site for your response.

You really don't think of GMJ when you meditate? Not even at the beginning or end...feeling gratitude?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 08:54:44 (GMT)
From: SpacyT
Email: None
To: Gregg
Subject: Practicing 'Knowledge'
Message:
Thanks for your comments,
I will get back to you.

Had to go off for my milk and be tucked up in bed.

May get on the computer tonight when the girls are at guides.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 01:33:55 (GMT)
From: Gregg
Email: None
To: SpacyT
Subject: One correction, SpacyT...
Message:
I said when YOU meditate, do you not think of Guru M. I meant: when PREMIES meditate, do they not think of GM?

Check out Conlon's comments above.

Love,

G

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 20:39:16 (GMT)
From: Lesley
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: To Mike Finch, on dying in the desert
Message:
You wrote in response to my question on how you see Maharaji:
'I don't have an opinion on whether M is specially divine, or ordinary mortal - actually I couldn't care less. The question that interests me is: What, if anything, can I get from M and K, whoever and whatever he is ? And I don't believe that this question can be answered by anything other than personal experience - there is no right or wrong answer to that question. It is rather like you are dying of thirst in the desert - would you refuse water because you thought the guy who comes by with the water-bottle was a drunkard who killed people, etc, etc ? The moral character of the water-carrier is of small significance compared to whether he actually has water or not.
This is getting a bit premie-ish satsang-ish, but you get my point I hope...
I better sign off before I start dreaming about the Palace of Peace !!'

I did have a dream last night, not about the PoP though, fortunately the details are fading, but it was something about being in a dark closet and realising that the reasons for being in it were wrong and calling out saying hey we don't have to be in here, there wasn't anything wrong with me, let's get out. I was feeling a bit distressed because I wasn't getting a quick reply.

No kidding, I'm remembering it again writing it down.

The salient piece in your analogy, I think, is whether you really are dying of thirst in the desert, as Maharaji would like us to believe. I mean, honestly, I have sat through so many hours of him telling me that he has the water to quench 'that thirst'.

After totting up the prohibitive costs of attending the event at Amaroo, we were additionally pleased that we don't want to go!

'this question can only be answered by personal experience' hmmm I remember Maharaji saying how he wished he could put us all into individual booths so we were only open to him and not eachother.

So, back to the original question of Rawat's divinity. You say you couldn't care less, I don't understand that, surely it is germane in assessing what you get out of M & K.

I know it is difficult to talk about, people can disagree for days only to find they are misunderstanding eachother's use of words, and I know we are talking about something that we take very personally, but it is not impossible to think and discuss it through to some reasonable conclusions.

There is something else I want to say, please bear with me as I have not thought it through clearly enough, but it is along the lines of how I have recognised the truth of John Dunne's oft quoted line 'No man is an island unto himself'. In subtle, yet potent ways, my belief in Maharaji has affected others as well as myself. It is very rewarding to clean it up.

The best part, of course, is that I am finally living well with myself, and it's still getting better. Now I better sign off before I start looking for some ghee!

Best regards, Lesley

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 03:44:25 (GMT)
From: Mike Finch
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Replies to everyone
Message:
Hi Everyone

There have been quite a few postings asking me questions, with varying degrees of respect, since my last post. Here are my responses to some of them:

______________
First, Gerry: 'it's this attitude that irks me most about the entire cult: my 'experience,' what I can get, get get out of it etc...What about all these broken people, huh? Oh never mind, it's YOUR EXPERIENCE that really matters and fuck the rest of us suckers, right? You don't give a ratass about other victims past or future, right? As long as you have a nice 'experience.''

Yes, Gerry, my experience is important to me. Very important. And yours is probably important to you; in fact 'not caring about your own experience' is pretty close to the legal definition of insanity. So that part of your argument is merely stupid.

What I resent, is your assumption that I don't care about anyone else. How in the hell do you know ? Or in your book, can you ONLY care about your own experience, OR care about others ? Can you not manage both ? I try to manage both, and how well or badly I succeed, I don't think you have the faintest idea.

______________
John writes: 'My concern here is that you claim to have left the cult, but the central issue which defined the cult, i.e. Maharaji's identity, you leave open....So, given the central nature of Maharaji's identity in the cult, is it possible to leave without seriously considering the issue?'

Let me be clearer about what I mean by 'leaving the cult'. I still practice Knowledge, and in fact many of you on this Forum would not consider that I have left the cult at all. What I mean by the 'cult' is hard to define, now I am thinking about it. I think it means two things:

1) The premie 'pecking order', where you are treated according to your perceived position in the premie hierarchy. Over the years, I have been in the inner circle, and in outer darkness. It is very noticeable how differently I was treated and talked to. Of course, not every premie buys into this, but enough do to make me want 'out'. It may seem pretty tame stuff, but I think any of you who have been career-premies in the past will relate.

2) The 'Maharaji says...' syndrome.

Actually, the more I think about this, the less clear I am. I'll have to think about this -- more in the next instalment !

______________
Bazza writes: 'If you don't consider yourself a premie, why did you go to the trouble of registering the domain name elanvital.tv when jondon announced it was available? Sorry if I jumped to conclusions over it, but you must see how that would look to us sceptics:)?'

This is a good question, and my pathetically lame answer is that I don't really know !! I am in the Web business, and I am always buying and passing on Web domain names, and spend a long time tracking down domain names that are suitable for a client. So when I was cruising the Forum, and I saw Jondon's posting come up, I just went and registered it without thinking - 'shoot first, ask later'. I will probably let Elan Vital have it, if they want it - I don't know. As you pointed out, there are hundreds of similar kind of domain names, and you cannot cover them all, so I don't think it is a big issue.

______________
Anth writes: 'Could you explain, or summarise, anything 'Good and worthwhile that M teaches'? Remotely will do fine.'

This is a subjective question. Certainly he says good and worthwhile things; I think your real question is 'how can anyone with a character that this Forum paints, say good and worthwhile things ?' which is a different question. More on this at the end of my post.

______________
Susan writes about my 'water in the desert' thing: 'First of all, I think you always had water...His character matters. It matters a lot. I think you still have some things to examine about your time in EV/DLM and the mark it has made on you.'

Of course I do; I hope I will never stop 'examining'.

'If a murderer, or rapist, or Hitler, gave me water in a desert that would be great and all'

That is my whole point.

'...but it would not in any way mitigate his character flaws. And if the character flaws are manifested in one's willingness to be worshipped as the living incarnation of the Superior Power in Person ( God ) and live a life of power, wealth, and privledge because people are giving you money because they think God gave them the water, it matters. Do you agree? '

Yes, I agree that it does matter, but I am not sure quite what your point is (it is late and I am tired - sorry !)

______________
Lesley writes: 'The salient piece in your analogy, I think, is whether you really are dying of thirst in the desert, as Maharaji would like us to believe. I mean, honestly, I have sat through so many hours of him telling me that he has the water to quench 'that thirst'.'

Yeah, I know it was really satsangy - definitely like waving a red flag in front of some bulls. Oh well, I am clearly still a premie after all !!

______________
Thanks JHB for your post. You wrote some of the most difficult questions to answer; let me think about your post (not a cop-out ! I am tired and want to go to bed !!)

______________
Jim writes.. well, so much that I cannot quote it, although it is still on the Inactive thread.

The politest thing I can say about your post, Jim, is that clearly you are going through some kind of therapy to write that stuff. You want my definition of a 'cult': it is to abuse people like you do, Jim, when they express an opinion different from yours.

There is nothing I can say that will NOT make you mad, so I am not even going to bother trying. The kinda sad thing is that you ask some challenging questions, but clothing them in insults sort of buries my ability to give reasoned and calm answers. However, here are a few answers:

'.. see, Mike, it sounds like you, unlike me for instance, are a true individual. Like the Marlboro man, maybe. People like me, eh, we're nothing..'

I would like to be a true individual; I don't smoke Marlboros however.

''I read this Forum with interest. I don't have the bitterness and pain that many of you clearly feel, but I certainly understand it.' Oh yeah? Tell me about that. Frankly, I'm not convinced. Prove it.'

I have not the faintest interest in convincing you of anything, or proving anything.

'Then again, you may be full of shit.'

Probably - no, make that 'almost certainly'.

'No spaces between your last letter and exclamation marks, please. Comply or the FA will have a word with you.'

I don't quite get this in-joke against the Forum Admin. Is there anybody you are not mad at ?

______________
OK, it is late, and I am tired, and I want to go to bed.

The bottom line is that I am not an apologist for M, but I will not buy in to much of the negative stuff about him on this Forum. I am not saying whether it is true or not, just that I do not buy into it. There is alot I do not like about the premie setup, and I personally reject. I still practice Knowledge. I do care about my own experience, and I do care about others, but I don't care to prove it.

Perhaps those of you who say I am not 'ex-premie' enough to be on this Forum are right; I have certainly blown it with the premies. Oh well, as someone once said, if everyone disagrees with you, you must be doing something right.

The real bottom line is that I am learning to stand on my own two feet, as I said before, and it is the best place I have found to stand yet.

-- Mike

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 23:55:54 (GMT)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: Mike Finch
Subject: Replies to everyone
Message:
Well said Mike,
Maybe it's because I have only recently seen through the whole cult delusion....phew that's a heavy statement, right? But for me the experience was , although gradual in the build up, quite cataclysmic in the end. And I do now see through the whole guru/cult, master/servant, thing. Surrender to a superior power, perfect master, perfect? perfect? Perfect what?? Well I can't question that because I am only an ordinary human being and HE is ....what?? Superior? Enlightened ?? the embodiment of realisation?? He Knows, and I don't , right?? I'm not expressing this well, it's still forming, but I think when it comes down to it, despite recent revisionary modelling, I basically bought the notion that he was/is the genuine article, a bone fide kosher incarnation of the divine force. Suitably modified in recent years to..just another human being, but a very special teacher, but we all knew he was divine, right? And now I can see clearly that he isn't!! wasn't, and never will be.
It's a new perspective, and I'm only just getting used to it's a ... strange new world..but I like it.

I wish you all the best,and hope you'll stick around and share your experiences with us.
Love Kelly

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 21:27:27 (GMT)
From: Lesley
Email: None
To: Mike Finch
Subject: to Mike F on the topic of satsang
Message:
I remember when I was a kid and my mum would say to me now thank aunty mabel for the nice present she has given you, I would feel frustrated because now I would have to obey my mother's instructions instead of responding freely to aunty mabel.

IMO, satsang is a bit, no make it a lot, like that.

Maharaji said to me, don't let me create a thirst in you, you discover your own thirst, and then come to me and I have the water that will quench it.

Sounds good, doesn't it, but what effect did it have on me? It made me sit there and think about what I was thirsty for, and it piggybacked on my assumption (wonder where I got that from) that maharaji was for real, that in a divine way he genuinely cared for my wellbeing.

He created a thirst in me and then made me suffer for it.

He goes around the world saying he wants everyone to 'participate'.

It's pretty pathetic, the way premies are made to jump through ever more humiliating hoops if they want to do service. Nobody grinds you into the dirt if all you want to do is give money.

His organisation, the 'fruits of his labour', speaks the truth about him louder than his speeches.

Sorry, Mike, if you feel you are getting a basinful from us here on the forum, I certainly don't want to push you off your own feet, and hope you stick around, somehow every premie's story told, reaches in and heals the wound, but I guess I believe that at some point you know too much and are no longer viable as a premie, and you might just as well push on through and reach an understanding. Once through, the confusion settles........ which reminds me, remember the one about the flippers churning up the sand when you get to the bottom? Fortunately, he was 'right' about that one too, pity it took 27 years as a premie, a total breakdown, and finally walking away, for the sand to settle.

A lie is a lie, and that is why the secrecy and evasion in Elan Vital, it is there because it is based on, and protective of, a stupid lie.

Love Lesley.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 21:13:10 (GMT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: Mike Finch
Subject: Hello MF and welcome.
Message:
My main interest in this site is that it enables me to get information , about something I have been involved in all my adult life , which is impossible to find otherwise.

I am particularly curious about the early days.

& the following days ,if the truth be known .

Whatever you believe ,vis a vis Rawat , is up to you .

I now think that he's a cunt , but if you don't I'm not going to argue .

If you can help in any way to write the history of all this ,then I , for one , would be grateful.

from a pawn ,to a bishop.

Good Luck.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 21:50:49 (GMT)
From: Earthling
Email: None
To: Bin Liner
Subject: Hello MF and welcome.
Message:
As someone who's got one, I find it particularly jarring when I hear the word cunt as an insult. Or are you referring to MJ as a source of pleasure?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 23:09:44 (GMT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: Earthling
Subject: OK , just for you , Rawat's a prick . nt
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 18:16:42 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Earthling and Bin Liner
Subject: Why, in the name of all things sacred -
Message:
- are the names of the two main organs of human reproduction used as insults?

Why not something like vomit and pustule?

(though I admit that I'm prone to calling people 'cunt' or 'prick' when I'm well pissed off - must be cultural conditioning or something - but that can change, can't it?)

Ah, - fuck it. I mean .... (ooops).

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 18:06:35 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Mike Finch
Subject: Two definitions
Message:
Two definitions:

(1) What is a cult? It is not very helpful for people to define that word for themselves. It is better to simply accept the dictionary definition, so that we can all understand what we mean when we use the word. A cult is simply a spiritual teacher and his devoted followers. There is nothing inherently negative about a cult per se. A cult can conceivably be either good or bad. But, as we all know, there are a lot of negative connotations to the word 'cult' because there are so many false gurus, and so many typical abuses in cults. On its website, Elan Vital defines 'cult' in a particular way, and says that it isn't a cult. But their definition is a special understanding of the word and only breeds confusion and disagreement. Rawat often says that he isn't a 'spiritual teacher', but again he is using his own special definitions of words, and that is very unhelpful. He IS a spiritual teacher in the common, ordinary sense of the words. I think it is necessary that we don't use any premie-speak if we are going to have a fruitful conversation. There are many cultish aspects in being a premie. And Maharaji and Elan Vital have made great efforts to get rid of many of those aspects. But in order to not be a cult, by the dictionary definition, you have to get rid of the Master.

(2) What do people mean when they say 'I practice Knowledge'? Nobody uses that phrase the way it used to be used in the 70's, meaning satsang, service, and meditation. Nowadays, to 'practice Knowledge' often means specifically to sit in meditation with the four techniques. But some people use it to mean that they still follow Maharaji as the Master, by attending his programs and satellite feeds, etc. Mike, when you say that you have 'left the cult but still practice Knowledge', then you are certain to have confused us. We don't even know exactly what you mean. If we are to understand your position, as I hope to do, please use ordinary language without premie-speak.

And a couple requests: Please don't be intimidated by negative comments. Just speak the truth as clearly as you see it. And please don't lump all of us together as if we are in an 'ex-premie cult.' There is no leader here, and we are all perfectly free to stand on our own two feet, and we do. You say that you are learning to do that yourself. I say BRAVO! to that. Yes, BRAVO!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 18:16:18 (GMT)
From: Conlon
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Well-spoken, Way
Message:
The word ''cult'' in India does not have a negative meaning. The tradition from which Mr Rawat and his father before him are descended historically are known proudly as the Radhasoami Beas CULTS.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 16:14:51 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Mike Finch
Subject: Anyone could play that game
Message:
No, you're not a cult apologist, and you're not a premie or an ex-premie, and you're not saying whether this or that is true, you're just not 'buying into it', (just like you never bought into the rest of the shit we all bought into years ago, I guess) and you'd love to answer this question or that but it was asked wrongly, and you won't comment on Maharaji's character other than to say that it isn't as depicted here and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah!

Look how you answer the few people who ask you something without the sarcasm in my post which you obviously were so offended by that you couldn't think of looking past:

Lesley writes: 'The salient piece in your analogy, I think, is whether you really are dying of thirst in the desert, as Maharaji would like us to believe. I mean, honestly, I have sat through so many hours of him telling me that he has the water to quench 'that thirst'.'

Yeah, I know it was really satsangy - definitely like waving a red flag in front of some bulls. Oh well, I am clearly still a premie after all !!

Nothing but your own sarcastic side-step!

Pleasure to meet you, Mike, I'm sure. Please accept my deepest apologies for treating your original post with anything les than the great respect and appreciation that you think it deserved.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 17:28:04 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Just a
Message:
I really can't understand how anyone here sees Mike Finch to be anything but a premie.

I see him as in the same mindset as Ron Geaves, Milky Cole, Mike Woods etc who even in the early years (late 60s and 70s)thought they were a cut above there rest of the 'premie mob'.

Jethro

PS has JHB sent you the package?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 20:07:45 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: No! I keep forgetting
Message:
Jethro,

To be honest, I wanted to watch them once more before sending them, but as I haven't yet, I've no excuse.

I shall do it immediately (and they will become the most travelled Maharaji tapes ever).

John.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 20:49:07 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Ok, hey I can't stop...
Message:
laughing I just read Malibu Mole's thread above ROTFL

Why don't you copy the tapes? Then youy can propagate

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 18:23:37 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: Remember, Jethro, that...
Message:
...premies come in different shades. Let's equate premienesss with the color green, shall we?! Some people are so dark green that they appear black. Some only have a few brush stokes of lime-green on their extremities. And there is every shade inbetween. Some people, who received Knowledge in 1998, never got too much green spilled on them in the first place. And for other people, especially from the good old 70's, it takes a long time to get all that green out. 'I'm gonna wash that man right out of my hair!' Oops, you still see a few green dandruff flakes now and then.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 18:59:49 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: I just don't by that stuff.
Message:
If someone 'received k' in the 70s. 80s, 90s, it doesn't necessarily mean they fit into your catagorisation at all.

Mike Finch has clearly been reading this forum for a long time and has had plenty of time to check, for example, the jagdeo stuff. He(Mike) says that he doesn't have an an opinion and that's what makes him a premie.

Hey premies were taught not to have an opinion. Remember prem used to quote HRH(His Royal Highness) shri hans ji maharaj as saying 'he who is impartial can have devotion' (sorry girls).

Look way, I am not that good at writing down things but I think you get my drift.

These early PAMS and important people like Mike Finch are living well today.

To quote another arsehole(rajneesh)'God is only for the rich'.

Jethro

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 20:11:26 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: I just don't by that stuff.
Message:
I do get your drift. I don't disagree with you at all. The way that Mike is going easy on Rawat is very premie-like. Mike admits this, himself. Not only what he expresses, but the way that he expresses it, is very typically premieish.

My only point was about the label 'premie.' Labels are often counterproductive because they are too clear-cut to properly reflect reality.

And I also agree with your point about 70', 80's, and 90's premies. Some 90's premies are very very green, (to return to my symbolism).

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 20:52:44 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: ok, and as I said to JHB
Message:
I'm still laughing at Malibu Moles's thread....

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 19:02:43 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: I can't spell 'buy'(nt)
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 06:10:56 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Mike Finch
Subject: Replies to everyone
Message:
Mike:

I don't know you, and don't have any questions for you. Enjoyed your post. I don't have any doubts about where I place Maharaji in the lexicon of spiritual leaders though--just slightly below the least of his followers.

--Scott

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 04:31:53 (GMT)
From: Conlon
Email: pdconlon@yahoo.com
To: Mike Finch
Subject: Bravo, Mike
Message:
I know you but you don't know me as I was not one of the suits.

I too practice the kriya yoga taught to us as Knowledge. (Have you read the Indian Background information here yet?)

I only believe eyewitness reports of Mr Rawat's misdeeds IF they are corroborated.

And I am also bored and offended by the current church-like non-cult where the rot starts at the top. It's hard to believe that one but look deeper and you will see.

I started posting here three weeks ago after lurking for a while mostly reading the Indian stuff and peoples' Journeys. I have just had a year of battles with the church-ladies here in San Francisco only to concede defeat because the cult culture is created at the top and cannot be altered by little people like me.

Please fell free to email me if you need to. I welcome you and hope that you learn something here as I have. The jewels are buried in some heavy useless ore but they are there.

BTW Jim is very dry. Someone posted here that chatting on a forum is made difficult because of the lack of body language. Emotikons are usually used for instance to denote that someone is saying the exact opposite of what they think by using the wink thing. But Jim and quite a few of the rest of us prefer not to use them and hope that you are not irony-deficient from having been a vegetarian for too long.

I am sure that you will soon see that Jim is quite subtle. And the other Rottweilers' barks are worse than their bits.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 16:21:35 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Conlon
Subject: Just curious, Conlon
Message:
I only believe eyewitness reports of Mr Rawat's misdeeds IF they are corroborated.

How, then, do the various sordid tales sort out in your mind? Which do you conisder corroborated and which not?

By the way, I'm sorry, but I don't think that's the best standard of proof in this situation. Corroboration isn't the only mode of trustworthy confirmation. Sometimes a single witness can have sufficient reliabilty and credibility that his account should be reasonably accepted, even at the criminal standard of proof. I see it all the time in sex assault cases, for example. One good complainant, even without corroboration, can persuade a court their stories true beyond a reasonable doubt. And well it should be. Flexible, you know?

I think in this case the EV FAQ and Maharaji's stonewalling of all questions tips the balance against him, whether he or anyone else likes it or not. I could say more about this but I have to run to court.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 18:11:37 (GMT)
From: Conlon
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Jim,
Message:
Jim, I meant I would believe the allegations if they were corroborated by an eyewitness BEFORE they went to court. If, however they do get to court, I would, like you, be persuaded that (your words) ''One good complainant, even without corroboration, can persuade a court their stories true beyond a reasonable doubt.''

The fact is however is that I have no reason to disbelieve allegations made by a single trustworthy eyewitness. For instance I do not doubt Dettmer's acount of vehicular manslaughter. Anonymous accusations however carry very little weight with me.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 04:22:26 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Mike Finch
Subject: Replies to everyone
Message:
Mike,

I appreciate your obviously sincere attempt to deal with all we had to say. My point is that whether one thinks they had water all along or not, or thinks that they are grateful for the water, it just doesn't excuse the absues of the water bearer. And you seem to be saying you agree.

What I see here a lot is an attitude of M gave me K. K is special. And nothing else matters. M's claims of divinity and his current pseudo retraction don't matter, the people that were hurt bt his callous and greedy attitude toward other humans don't matter. Only the experience matters. I thought that was what you were saying, and I am glad you don't feel that way.

I hope you spend some time reading the site and the journeys and the human stories of the former premies here. It says a lot about why it matters.

I wish you well, and I sense you are a good person.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 19:51:59 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: 'Faith' based government funding proposal
Message:
For those of you that don't know, I am the one of the least liberal, some would say I am conservative, posters here.

But, this idea concerns me as a former cult member. What would have stopped Jim Jones and the Peoples
Temple from getting government funds for their charitable People's Temple work. If the Maharaji cult were to decide to do something like, provide something of value to someone beside Rawat, would they be able to get government funding? I think they are opening themselves up to discrimination suits if they give money to mainstream religions and withhold it from nut job cults. I think this sounds like a good idea but could be opening up a myriad of bad possibilities.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 03:51:45 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: 'Faith' based government funding proposal
Message:
Susan:

I don't see how this can possibly be a serious proposal, unless Bush is a lot dumber than he seems. I think it's a proposal meant to placate religious conservatives. For one thing, it has the liabilities you mention. Then, there is also the matter of unintended consequences. A closer connection between government and religion will eventually mean more socialist or social democrat programs. If you believe those are a good thing then this proposal of Bush's might break the impasse that has always kept socialist movements on the margin of American politics. Lots of literature and research on how this situation evolves over time, but it's a very safe bet.

--Scott

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 23:19:25 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: all
Subject: a letter to President Bush
Message:
Dear President Bush,

I would like to comment on your faith based funds initiative. I am concerned that because it is difficult to draw the line between a religion and a 'cult' that cults such as Scientology, the Moonies, or a Jim Jones type People's Temple organization might get access to government funds. This in my opinion would be tragic. I think if a cult were to sue on the grounds that mainstream religious charities had access to these funds and the Hare Krishna's, for example, did not it would be very difficult to defend the decision legally.

I hope you and your advisors consider the issue of the destructive cult type organizations that may apply for this funding, and how you can legally justify not giving them funds. In my opinion it would be indefensible if the government were to do something however well intentioned that would end up supporting these harmful groups.

president@whitehouse.gov

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 22:21:44 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: Marvin Olasky and the depravity of poor people
Message:
Bush himself is too stupid to have come up with this idea, but the people who support him, mainly the Christian Coalition, think it's a great way for the taxpayer to fund Christian propagation. You know, make people accept Jesus in their hearts before you give them something to eat.

This guy Marvin Olasky, a big 'advisor' to Bush, has written this book funded by the right wing Heritage Foundation called The Tragedy of American Compassion. In that book he says we have to go back to the model in the late 19th Century, you know, poor houses and the like. The idea is that poor people are poor because there is something defective in their character and they need indoctrination of morals and religion before they should be given any help. So, just give money to religions and let them do all the social work, and let them teach religious morals at the same time. It's so dumb, like hanging the ten commandments in schools, or praying in schools, would reduce violence or drug use. Yeah, right. And it's demeaning, racist, classist and a really, really bad idea.

Not only because of the violation of the separation of church and state, which people like Ashcroft, our soon-to-be Attorney General DO NOT believe in, but because our tax dollars can go to any religious group, which is free to disrciminate against ANYONE, including people who happen to follow a different religion, or have no religion. So, they are exempt from all the anti-discrimination laws, including in hiring and they can refuse to hire a janitor who isn't of the right religion, or race, or gender, or orientation, or whatever, and still accept our tax dollars.

And you are right. No one is in a position to say what is a legitimate 'religion' or 'faith-based' organization and what isn't. Maharaji has never shown any evidence of giving a crap about the social welfare of anybody but himself, but if it meant getting money, who knows? He might require people to watch videos before they get fed and to accept him as their master before they could get medical care. That might increase his miserable statistics on PWKs.

Speaking of Ashcroft and his so-called 'Christian Values,' I know he is against abortion even in cases of rape and incest, I guess on the basis of believing it's murder, but how can he be such a HUGE proponent of the death penalty. What part of THOW SHALT NOT KILL, doesn't he understand?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 00:53:22 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: supporting propagation
Message:
'... the people who support him, mainly the Christian Coalition, think it's a great way for the taxpayer to fund Christian propagation. You know, make people accept Jesus in their hearts before you give them something to eat.'

Another way it could support propagation is by freeing up funds for propagation that would have been spent on charity. This could be hard to monitor.

The spin I heard recently is that religious and secular groups would compete on the basis of 'performance' for funds, and that religious groups shouldn't be discriminated against.

Perhaps the 'performance' criteria would be made sufficiently vague to allow the right-wingers to covertly (in a legal sense) discriminate against secular groups and religious groups they deem unworthy of funds. That would be any group that is not the 'right kind' of Christian. There would be an unwritten understanding. I think this is what they have in mind. I can't imagine them wanting to give funds to religions they oppose. Bush has already talked excluding religions like Wicca; the religious groups he mentioned that he considered worthy of funds were Christians, Jews, and Muslims. I think he only included Jews and Muslims because he had to say that, I doubt he was sincere. About Wicca, he said something like it isn't a real religion.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 05:29:06 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: G
Subject: supporting propagation
Message:
G:

'... the people who support him, mainly the Christian Coalition, think it's a great way for the taxpayer to fund Christian propagation. You know, make people accept Jesus in their hearts before you give them something to eat.'

It sure isn't obvious, but there's a pretty clear correlation between the church-state connection and low church turnout, or religiosity. Most of these instances of low attendance are in countries that had a 'state' church. For instance, regular church attendance in England is around 2%, or about 1/10th what it is in the US, where 'sects' rather than a church have dominated. It might be simplistic to say that an increased role for religion in government would necessarily lead to a less religious population, and increased tolerance for socialism. That is, I'm not entirely sure how this truism applies to a sectarian society like the US. Anyway, I think the obstacles are so enormous that all it really amounts to is a way for the religious right to play with itself. But if they manage to do it, I'm pretty sure it won't turn out the way they want it to.

--Scott

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 16:42:23 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: interesting
Message:
I didn't think about that. Many people don't like to be told what to do or not to do. Consider prohibition, people got drunk just because that weren't supposed to. If the state tries to shove religion down peoples' throats many people will gag.

I don't think the Christian Coalition understands this, they seem to have a brute force approach to many issues. Someone's taking drugs? put them in jail. Kids are not learning? give them make-or-break tests.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 20:41:58 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: G
Subject: interesting
Message:
G:

I didn't think about that. Many people don't like to be told what to do or not to do. Consider prohibition, people got drunk just because that weren't supposed to. If the state tries to shove religion down peoples' throats many people will gag.

There's certainly a little of that, but the main issue is that 'official' religion sinks or swims based on the legitimacy of the state. It is no longer independent of politics, and people just don't tend to look to government for spiritual guidance any more. Hence, the closer the connect the less people tend to trust religion. And that's not just the 'official' religion either. The lose confidence in religion in general. Yeah, the religious right hasn't even considered that. They are very simplistic.

--Scott

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 16:33:24 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: interesting
Message:
G, & Joe:

The dynamic implied in the above insight is that government gains legitimacy from the association with religion, while religion loses, over time (say, over a period of 50 years or so). This is not to say that the 'business' of religion won't gain in the short run. There was a time when the only 'big' businesses around were government and religion.

--Scott

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 21:28:56 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: Religions are Big Business in the USA
Message:
I think the difference is that Religion is a big business in the US. The Catholic Church, for example, is one of the largest operators of hospitals, schools, and social service agencies of all types in the country. They would like to get taxpayer money directly to do whatever it is they do.

The same is true of many of the protestant religions as well. They are huge billion-dollar organizations with TV stations, lots of property, and lots of employees.

The problem is, that they are free to do whatever they like because they are religions and don't have to follow the rules that other non-religious organizations do. That's what makes giving public money to them so troubling.

Plus, the philosophy behind 'compassionate conservativism' is that people are poor because it's their own damn low level of morals, and that's just offensive.

I think some of the religions see social services as a way to do 'good works' or 'Christ's work' in the world. Others also see it as a means to indoctrinating people when they are the most desperate.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 01:04:12 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: G
Subject: supporting propagation
Message:
Hi G, how are you. Haven't heard from you in awhile. Hope all is well.

The spin I heard recently is that religious and secular groups would compete on the basis of 'performance' for funds, and that religious groups shouldn't be discriminated against.

This is kind of nonsense, because religious groups can already contract with government to provide services, and hence compete with non-religious groups. For example, Caltholic Charities contracts with San Francisco to provide a wide-range of social services, including food, housing, hospice care, etc. The difference is, they have to abide by the same rules as any other contractor, and don't get a dispensation because they are a religious group. For example, Catholic Charities has to abide by all the anti-discrimination laws of the City, and they even have to provide domestic partner benefits to the domestic partners of their employees in order to contract with San Francisco. This was a big deal because the Catholic Church does not endorse homosexual relationships, or any sexual relationships outside of heterosexual marriage.

But with Bush's proposal, they would be government money directly, can do what they want with it, maybe within certain guidelines, but as a religion they would be exempt from all the non-discrimination rules in treatment and employment that would extend to any non-religious provider. So, they would have an advantage in that sense, and also be able to discriminate, as well as propagate, because their 'mission' is more than just providing services, it's 'saving souls' or whatever.

And I agree, it they began to fund the Hare Krishnas, or worse, some kind of feminist-based 'goddess' religion, the right wing would have a coronary.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 12:33:03 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: supporting propagation
Message:
Joe:

'And I agree, it they began to fund the Hare Krishnas, or worse, some kind of feminist-based 'goddess' religion, the right wing would have a coronary.'

How about the John Coltrane cult feeding the homeless in Santa Monica? Jazzercharity.

--Scott

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 20:34:06 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: 'Faith' based Nazi government
Message:
I am very liberal and the whole thing sounds like a bad idea. People should not be coerced to pray or kowtow, even in the mildest manner, to someone else's religion in order to be fed, housed clothed or treated with dignity. Any religion or group that promotes worship of any kind is a cult, by dictionary definition.

But the worst part of it is that Scientology might find a way to bask at the trough, as well as the Moonies, as well as EV and others of this ilk.

Some ill-conceived law could definitely be extended by the courts. And the Scientologists certainly trotted out Hollywood's brainwashed stars before Congress (Travolta being the main one, not sure about Cruise and Kidman, although they are b-washed too) in order to use the clout of the US government to get Germany to leave Scientology alone.

The best we could hope is that the wacko cults get any such law overturned, on the grounds that they aren't allowed to get the money too.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 20:41:04 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: ACLU is drafting the lawsuit as we post, I suspect
Message:
This proposal sounds like the biggest violation of the separation of church and state that has occurred in years. Within the last year or so, the Supreme Court ruled against school prayer at a football game once again. I don't know how such a proposal can be justified under the First Amendment, or how it could pass in the Senate.

Lawsuits galore will be filed against such a piece of legislation if it is enacted. Look for San Francisco federal court to be one of the first places such a suit is filed.

Marianne

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 01:47:14 (GMT)
From: Ben Lurking
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: ACLU is drafting the lawsuit as we post, I suspect
Message:
A) I don't support it but
B) I wonder why when the former president set something up very simlilar under HUD there was no reaction then?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 20:45:41 (GMT)
From: Conlon
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: SF may file first suit but
Message:
may still lose as happened with the cross on Mt Davidson although that was finagled and is still a source of discomfort for those of us who detest it.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 23:00:27 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Conlon
Subject: Cross a different legal issue, methinks
Message:
Pat:

I'm fuzzy on the facts, but the cross involved some private money. Either the land, the cross, or both.

This would be public money, earmarked to be given to the poor, diverted through private religions organizations and then back out to its public purpose.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 19:02:05 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: To Mike Finch re: Maharaji's Identity
Message:
Mike,

Firstly, welcome! I don't know if you remember me, but I was in Brighton Ashram in 1974, and our paths brushed a few times since, the last time being in 1985 when I drove with Roger Fierstone(sp?) from Telford to a program in Leicester. We called in to see you after the program.

Anyway, I'm one of the occasionally adversarial posters here:-) I hope you don't mind.

In a thread below, you had this exchange with Lesley:-

Lesley writes: 'Not a hint about what you actually think of Maharaji. This is the dividing line, imo, both Sandy and Turner were of the opinion that Maharaji is specially divine, those that 'attacked' were of the opinion that Maharaji is an ordinary mortal of poor character. That is my opinion about Rawat, what is yours?'

Mike replied: 'I don't have an opinion on whether M is specially divine, or ordinary mortal - actually I couldn't care'

You then give the example about getting water in a desert.

My concern here is that you claim to have left the cult, but the central issue which defined the cult, i.e. Maharaji's identity, you leave open. Even now, for new people, the process of receiving knowledge is one of indoctrination into the importance of the master, with a few nods and winks when newcomers ask who he is. All the old-timers still in the cult have devotedly retained their previous beliefs.

So, given the central nature of Maharaji's identity in the cult, is it possible to leave without seriously considering the issue?

John.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 20:00:19 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: To Mike Finch
Message:
Mike Finch,

Thanks from me, also, for your posts and for joining the discussion here. I take it that you are not yet sure how involved you wish to get with this forum, and you are testing the waters, so to speak. But I would like to encourage you to continue here, for the simple reason that you have had a relatively long and close association with Maharaji and Knowledge, and your input could be very valuable.

I, too, hope the discussion is mutually respectful, but I also hope that you can accept some input from Jim and Gerry. Even though they are the 'hard-liners' here and often abrasive, they sometimes have extremely thought-provoking things to say. And sometimes, the points they make are absolutely valid, even when they've left out the niceties.

A couple observations from me. (By the way, I'm American and only vaguely remember your name.) Like JHB, I find it impossible to accept what you have said so far about not caring at all about Rawat's identity and moral character. It is truly such an important factor. Your attempt to deny its importance indicates to me that you are struggling with the issue, as well you might given what we now know about his habits in regard to alcohol, cigarettes, marijuana, premie blonds, pedophile complaints, and traffic accidents!

You say that if somebody has the water, then the guy dying in the desert doesn't care who brings it, he just cares about the water. Such an analogy was used by Rawat to speak of himself as the savior of mankind. But the analogy is utterly misplaced because there is no 'water' that belongs to Rawat, that he has to give us. We humans are blessed with life, not suffering with sin, darkness, and/or ignorance. We have wisdom and love within us, it not something that we so completely lack that we need to get it from somebody else. So therefore, we cannot be likened to somebody dying in the desert, and Rawat cannot be likened to the one source of our Water/Truth. The analogy is not appropriate.

You also seem to be saying, however vaguely, that separate from the cultish aspects surrounding Maharaji, there is something of value in what he is offering. I believe this point needs clarifying. It is true that there is some value in his teachings, because he teaches meditation and the Socratic philosophy of know thyself, among other positive things. But such teachings and the benefits derived from these teachings are not uniquely Rawat's to give. The one and only unique thing about Rawat's teachings is in reference to himself as the necessary Master. So we MUST differentiate between Maharaji, and Knowledge. You still refer to these two things as 'Maharaji and Knowledge,' as if they are a singularity. But I must insist that we distinquish between them, if we are to understand each other's viewpoint.

Rawat is continually trying to convince people that he is the source of Knowledge, that if we want light, we must go to him. He made this exact claim just a few days ago, in Oxnard, in no uncertain terms. When Maharaji says that there is light inside, then we may concur privately and personally, as you say. But that leaves the glaring question wide open about whether that light is in any way due to Rawat's teachings and influence in our lives.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 20:07:34 (GMT)
From: Steve
Email: stevehollingsworth@hotmail.com
To: Way
Subject: To Mike Finch
Message:
I feel you summed things up pretty nicely. I'm new to the forum but a rather old ex-premie.
Older & wiser, fortunately.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 19:58:44 (GMT)
From: Tim G
Email: \
To: JHB
Subject: Spot On ! JHB
Message:
If Mike really said that he mustn't have been a bhakti wallah. He threw the Bhakti out with the Bathwater. And if I hear that Pathetic 'water in the desert' analogy again I'm going to puke.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 03:46:53 (GMT)
From: Mike Finch
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Replies
Message:
I have posted replies to you guys, and others, in one posting which I have put in Lesley's thread a few threads above this one.

-- Mike

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 18:58:40 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Pulling a good quote from Gerry to the front
Message:
This is from the Mike Finch thread. Though I do not think that he is right about Sandy, I think Sandy has shown he does have compassion for others, I think he hits the nail on the head about the Maharaji Cult, and one of the worst effects of it. It promotes two values, caring about your master, and caring about your 'experience'. It says, screw everyone else, nothing else is real, nothing else matters. Its ugly, and it is souless. Gerry doesn't use the words I would, but he expresses it perfectly.

This stuff makes me puke. The cult turns nice people like you into thoughless self-centered droids who end up sputtering nonsense ala Sandford Pass. What about the rest the cult victims? The ones that committed suicide over this nonsense, the ones who worked themselves into permanent disability at DECA, or the ones who became seriously mentally ill because they couldn't live up to Fatass's scrambled and contradictory 'message?'

What about all these broken people, huh? Oh never mind, it's YOUR EXPERIENCE that really matters and fuck the rest of us suckers, right? You don't give a ratass about other victims past or future, right? As long as you have a nice 'experience.' Yeah, you're a real sweetheart and I'm a bulldog because I say fuck this attitude and rotten self-centered cult apologists who promote it.

Sometimes being a nice person means standing up to things like this horrible cult. Good post.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 18:28:02 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: Thanks, Susan ...
Message:
I missed that one. Compassion doesn't always mean being nice, thank goodness.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 20:45:05 (GMT)
From: Lesley
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: Does this mean I'm in 'Dances with Bulldogs'
Message:
thanks Susan, it deserved a repost. But then he does warn us that women, children and animals all love him!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 20:53:50 (GMT)
From: gErRy
Email: None
To: Lesley
Subject: I forgot plants...
Message:
Well, I was sorta practising the fifth technique when I said that, but most of my pals do seem to be gals. And I got Will (age eight) over his telephone phobia (sorta,) when he called me up yesterday to play ping pong. But I'll be damned if Poppy (mini dauchshound sp) didn't wet on my new loafers...
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 22:26:19 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: gErRy
Subject: speaking of plants
Message:
I did a search on selene and right up on the first page were two links to the signed guestbook at a store I liked in LB called
The Eye of the Cat.
Someone named selene had signed it as late as 1999 with all this new age stuff about don't forget the meditation is the most important thing, blah blah. (as far as I knew it wasn't a premie store)

So there it is. Proof positive that I was only a pretend ex as late as 1999.

and before anyone gets their panties in a bunge, the search results were real, the rest of this is a JOKE. I left the cult in Dec. 1997.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 00:29:00 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: speaking of plants :)
Message:
You really did a search and found that? You really never do know what they're going to put on the web next - too funny! Maybe I should do a search on my own name again!

Anna

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 00:34:10 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: yeah I DID find it
Message:
a real simple search too.
And given to how uh, let me quote Uma Thurman in Pulp Fiction
'When you little scamps get together you are worse than a sewing circle'
well sexism aside, given to that disposition here I was chuckling when I found it thinking what 'they' would think!
course given the fact that you are the ONLY person who has responded to one of my posts today perhaps they don't give a fuck which is fine by me as well.

selene - must have made it to another list!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 00:44:35 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: yeah I DID find it
Message:
LOL!!! You are hilarious! But it's wild what you can sometimes find (or not) doing searches. No one's talking to me since all kinds of bs flew, and I'm too tired and busy with my new schedule to do much reading or posting. I hope they settle the rules and guidelines, as Katie suggested, so that this discussion doesn't keep coming back. ;)

Anna - lists are for groceries and things-to-do.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index