Forum V: Archive
Compiled: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 17:05:07 (GMT)
From: Mar 13, 2001 To: Mar 17, 2001 Page: 3 Of: 5


Joe -:- Another Michael Donner comment -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 06:45:53 (GMT)
__ Susan -:- Thanks Joe and Donner ( keep bringing good stuff ) -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 19:15:32 (GMT)
__ Richard -:- Need for an essay section -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 16:21:06 (GMT)
__ __ Joe -:- Need for an essay section -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 17:39:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ Richard -:- Here's the getting high with M story -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 18:01:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ such -:- Malibu Joint: Bustin' Loose! Alien Love Child! (nt -:- Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 03:22:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Mark -:- Here's the getting high with M story -:- Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 00:45:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Richard -:- Mark: thanks for comments re: naming names, etc -:- Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 02:11:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- Mark: thanks for comments re: naming names, etc -:- Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 06:36:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Susan -:- Here's the getting high with M story -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 19:30:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Susan -:- Here's the getting high with M story -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 19:30:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Joe -:- Thanks...**BEST?** -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 19:21:57 (GMT)
__ Gregg -:- Kali Yuga! -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 14:38:30 (GMT)
__ Pat Conlon -:- Joe, that is it in a nutshell for sure -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 08:39:17 (GMT)
__ Mercedes -:- Another Michael Donner comment -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 07:04:12 (GMT)

Joe -:- Very important to bring up top -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 06:38:05 (GMT)
__ Pat Conlon -:- Very important to bring up top -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 09:11:39 (GMT)
__ __ Katie Darling -:- Maharaji's conscience -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 22:53:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ suchabanana -:- Maharaji's conscience: non sequitur (nt -:- Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 03:41:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Thanks, Katie. I'm going to post some thoughts -:- Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 02:14:38 (GMT)

The Birthday Goddess -:- it is in the UK! Happy Birthday Jethro! :) 3/15 -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 04:43:24 (GMT)
__ cq -:- Many happy returns of the day (strange saying) -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 20:29:44 (GMT)
__ Jethro -:- it is in the UK! Happy Birthday Jethro! :) 3/15 -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 09:30:15 (GMT)
__ __ Nigel -:- You don't look a day over 52... -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 12:21:56 (GMT)
__ __ AJW -:- Happy Birthday to You -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 12:03:59 (GMT)
__ __ Kelly -:- How many 'Fiances' have you got? nt -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 12:02:03 (GMT)
__ Pat Conlon -:- Happy Birthday Jethro! Not another Fish -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 04:52:30 (GMT)
__ __ Kelly -:- Happy Birthday Jethro! -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 11:59:32 (GMT)
__ __ Bazza -:- I put a case of Boddies in the mail jethro NT -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 05:06:06 (GMT)

Deputy Dog -:- Mea culpa! -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 03:42:01 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- Mea kaputa! -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 11:48:59 (GMT)
__ Mercedes -:- Mea culpa! -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 06:33:19 (GMT)
__ Pat Conlon -:- Well, I always thought you were smart, Dog -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 04:14:07 (GMT)
__ Connie -:- Bravo -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 04:05:23 (GMT)

G -:- haharaji fear-mongering again -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 02:53:52 (GMT)
__ Psycho Path -:- and talking of knives -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 05:56:51 (GMT)
__ __ sumo boy -:- and talking of knives -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 20:23:10 (GMT)
__ __ gerry -:- and talking of knives -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 16:17:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ Psycho Path -:- and talking of knives -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 16:52:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ cq -:- Knives are needed, if you're trapped in a net ... -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 20:57:09 (GMT)
__ moldy warp -:- Ricki Martin upholds the word of the Hamster -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 03:09:39 (GMT)
__ __ Bazza -:- Ricki Martin premie - hmmm could be -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 03:30:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ MARK -:- GOT THE TECHNIQUES FROM YOGANANDA ASMRAM (NT) -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 04:15:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ janet -:- who-ricki martin?? you?? please say. n/t -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 06:57:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ mark -:- who-ricki martin?? you?? please say. n/t -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 14:41:37 (GMT)

Salam -:- Anth -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 01:33:13 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- Salam Salam. -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 12:01:04 (GMT)
__ __ Shropshirewoman -:- The Cat...... -:- Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 00:19:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ AJW -:- Who is John Sheridan? -:- Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 11:49:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jethro -:- Anth, I don't believe that you -:- Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 15:58:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- Jeth' -:- Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 16:46:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jethro -:- Anth, I lived in Groveway 76-77 and then moved -:- Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 17:54:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Catweasel -:- Anth, I lived in Groveway 76-77 and then moved -:- Sat, Mar 17, 2001 at 00:08:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ Thelma -:- Is the Catweasle a drunken lesbian or you? NT -:- Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 01:38:18 (GMT)

Bazza -:- Millenium Article by Ken Kelley. Part 1. -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 01:09:29 (GMT)
__ Susan -:- thanks you great reading (nt) -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 19:05:34 (GMT)
__ Joe -:- Hey, I just figured it out... -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 18:33:20 (GMT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- Article online on EPO -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 09:59:07 (GMT)
__ __ Jean-Michel -:- Rampart article updated with pictures! -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 18:08:08 (GMT)
__ Bazza -:- Millenium Article by Ken Kelley. Part 2 . -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 01:11:38 (GMT)
__ __ Brian -:- Great article -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 05:18:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ Joe -:- Yes, thanks Bazza -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 07:28:05 (GMT)
__ __ Pat Conlon -:- Thanks Bazza -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 04:50:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ bill -:- What a great analysis, what a hoot...nt -:- Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 06:12:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ Bazza -:- My favourite quote: -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 04:58:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- talking about modern technology, Bazza and Brian -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 05:33:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- My favourite quote: I had too many -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 05:00:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Bazza -:- Rennie Davis on acid - could be -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 05:10:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- Did Rennie Davis really say that? -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 07:18:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Connie -:- they're from Venutia, you know -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 07:49:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Hi Connie -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 09:18:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ janet -:- Rennie Davis is why i came to knowledge. oy. -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 07:27:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- Me too. -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 07:31:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Richard -:- How about a nice, healthy Millenium Bar -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 05:47:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Bazza -:- John Chan -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 14:56:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Way -:- Re:John Chan -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 16:35:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Richard -:- Re:John Chan -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 16:43:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ NotSoQuietThisTime -:- I knew John Chan... -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 17:57:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Feeling a little desparate? -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 23:38:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ NOYFB -:- Interesting.... -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 20:31:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ NOYFB -:- PS -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 20:42:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ janet -:- this just reeks of 'that love,that understanding'- -:- Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 05:07:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Way -:- Just plain bitter bile -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 18:27:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ such -:- Yaweh! [mt -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 23:42:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Way to go, Way -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 19:32:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Richard -:- I knew John Chan... -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 18:08:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- At least they spelled 'Millenium' Correctly -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 07:12:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ sumo boy -:- At least they spelled 'Millenium' Correctly -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 14:20:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Mercedes -:- You guys made me laugh!!! (nt) -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 06:59:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Rennie Davis BURNT OUT on acid -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 05:26:52 (GMT)

Francesca -:- Non anons -- welcome to the Donner party! -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 00:52:54 (GMT)
__ suchabanana -:- 'Donner party':B careful w/ menu this time,please! -:- Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 03:01:01 (GMT)
__ Psycho Path -:- Non anons -- welcome to the Donner party! -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 06:09:08 (GMT)
__ Pat Conlon -:- This joint is jumping -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 04:26:09 (GMT)
__ __ Cynthia -:- Wouldn't that be something? -:- Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 15:45:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ such -:- But m needs Skeleton Key to open his Closet (mt -:- Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 20:06:56 (GMT)

Selene -:- the inactive regarding the family of M -:- Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 20:35:09 (GMT)
__ Selene -:- another example -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 03:19:32 (GMT)

Richard Rogers -:- Postie runs naked through the streets -:- Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 19:30:21 (GMT)
__ Susan -:- streaking postie -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 19:18:41 (GMT)
__ __ Richard -:- streaking postie -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 19:34:20 (GMT)
__ Curious George -:- Which one are you? -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 02:43:32 (GMT)
__ __ Richard -:- Which one are you? -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 02:48:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ Curious George -:- Which one are you? -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 02:54:40 (GMT)
__ Tony Walker (Aussi Ji) -:- Good onya mate! feels a little unusual doesn't it -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 02:25:25 (GMT)
__ Richard -:- Thank you one and all -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 01:05:01 (GMT)
__ Suzanne -:- Love the guy in the WPC hat. -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 00:40:43 (GMT)
__ Mercedes -:- Postie runs naked through the streets -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 00:39:28 (GMT)
__ Helen -:- Postie runs naked through the streets -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 00:22:10 (GMT)
__ Robyn -:- Postie runs naked through the streets -:- Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 23:03:25 (GMT)
__ Brian Smith -:- Wow Richard, way to come out,you have just raised -:- Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 20:23:03 (GMT)
__ Joe -:- Hi Richard -:- Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 20:22:35 (GMT)
__ __ Richard -:- Hi Richard -:- Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 20:52:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ Joe -:- Hi Richard -:- Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 23:23:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Joy -:- I Think I Deserve the Toaster -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 02:47:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- I Think I Deserve the Toaster -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 04:09:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Postie -:- 'Green were the hills I just to roam...' -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 04:49:23 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- M's forehead? Visitation from bird of paradise?(nt -:- Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 20:33:45 (GMT)
__ Selene -:- Postie runs naked through the streets -:- Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 20:07:56 (GMT)
__ Francesca -:- Welcome Post Toastie! n/t -:- Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 19:57:41 (GMT)
__ Thelma/Pat the Fat Fag -:- Postie runs naked through the streets -:- Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 19:46:06 (GMT)
__ __ Dermot -:- Postie runs naked through the streets -:- Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 21:09:05 (GMT)
__ Michael Dettmers -:- Congratulations old friend! (nt) -:- Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 19:38:52 (GMT)
__ __ Cynthia -:- God, you look so familiar I know I've seen that... -:- Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 21:46:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ Richard -:- God, you look so familiar I know I've seen that... -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 02:26:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ michael donner -:- my hat... -:- Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 23:56:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Richard -:- my hat... -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 00:59:39 (GMT)

Francesca -:- Sometimes it isn't so shocking or unique -:- Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 18:17:54 (GMT)
__ Katie Darling -:- Exactly -:- Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 19:29:21 (GMT)
__ __ Mercedes -:- I agree!!!! (nt) -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 02:02:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ Ricahrd -:- I agree also plus this point -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 20:34:18 (GMT)

Jim -:- Elan Vital's Daily Prayer -:- Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 17:15:25 (GMT)
__ Pat Conlon -:- Maharaji has got a job at Hallmark -:- Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 19:49:36 (GMT)
__ __ Cynthia -:- I have an Aunt who's retire from Hallmark... -:- Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 21:55:18 (GMT)

Disculta -:- About anonymity -:- Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 17:09:11 (GMT)
__ such -:- AnOmenKnitty:weaveKindnessToleranceHealthSafety(nt -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 23:18:30 (GMT)
__ sivan -:- an anon good point -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 09:12:27 (GMT)
__ Tonette -:- Not a problem -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 09:11:17 (GMT)
__ Tony Walker -:- About anonymity -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 02:34:35 (GMT)
__ __ Katie Darling -:- About anonymity -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 02:40:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ Katie -:- Hey, Katie Darling -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 17:14:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ bill -:- No woman should quote dali lama or buddha! -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 05:25:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Bill, why should womyn not quote the buddha? -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 05:30:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ bill--hi Pat, give me a -:- few days to get home to my papers onthe subject.nt -:- Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 05:20:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ bill-Hi Pat, let me -:- answer that in one week when I get to my papers. -:- Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 05:00:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Hi bill, promise? NT -:- Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 06:39:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Sivan/Sam -:- no menstrating in temples-enough?NT -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 09:15:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- no menstrating in temples-enough? No. -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 09:26:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ Tony Walker -:- About anonymity -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 02:56:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ Richard -:- About anonymity -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 02:56:02 (GMT)
__ Charlie -:- About anonymity -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 01:19:28 (GMT)
__ __ Richard -:- 10668 hits in one day? - Wow! -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 01:23:57 (GMT)
__ jjanet -:- how do i get to the recent ex's forum?..mt -:- Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 18:10:23 (GMT)
__ __ recentexes forum FA -:- how do i get to the recent ex's forum?..mt -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 00:11:42 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- More bullying, I guess -:- Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 17:25:50 (GMT)
__ __ such -:- just change dialogue to mutual respect,civility(nt -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 04:42:48 (GMT)
__ __ janet -:- no code. just everyone speak for themselves: -:- Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 20:33:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- Funny, I thought we WERE trying to kill premies -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 02:22:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Jim didn't mean that. He meant ''Pill cremies'' -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 09:34:20 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- Absurd, Jim -:- Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 20:20:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- Absurd, Chris -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 02:30:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ cq -:- Absurd - 'Out of harmony with reason' (OED) ... -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 19:20:00 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- Allow me to bully you a bit -:- Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 17:17:35 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- Allow me to bully you a bit -:- Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 20:28:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- Allow me to bully you a bit -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 02:38:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ cq -:- YOU said it, Jim. READ YOUR OWN WORDS -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 21:31:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- YOU said it, Jim. READ YOUR OWN WORDS -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 23:32:36 (GMT)
__ __ Selene -:- oh REAAALLLY Jim? -:- Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 20:12:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- Yes, REAAALLLY Selene -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 02:34:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Selene -:- GREAT POINT! thanks -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 03:20:58 (GMT)
__ __ Joe -:- Jim, I am shocked, surprised and astrounded -:- Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 20:06:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- How about 'dismayed' or 'hurt', Joe? -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 02:39:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Joe -:- No, I could detect neither dismay or hurt -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 19:36:30 (GMT)
__ __ Joy -:- Allow me to bully you a bit -:- Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 19:11:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- Oh my God! Not THE Patricia Evans???? -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 02:48:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ Bobby -:- verbal abuse and ridicule -:- Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 19:56:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Ridicule here is like industrial strength soap -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 02:52:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Ridicule here is like industrial strength soap -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 04:50:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Helen -:- Ridicule here is like industrial strength soap -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 23:43:13 (GMT)
__ Katie Darling -:- About anonymity -:- Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 17:10:17 (GMT)
__ __ Disculta -:- That was zen, this was tao -:- Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 17:11:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ Katie Darling -:- That was zen, this was tao -:- Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 17:12:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Disculta -:- Hey, you outed me! -:- Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 17:13:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Katie Darling -:- Don't worry darling -:- Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 17:15:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Don't worry sweetie dahling, Thelma is here -:- Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 18:13:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ michael donner -:- respecting the expressions of our feelings -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 00:14:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Richard -:- Michael - right on and well said (nt) -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 00:32:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Thelma -:- That's Bitch NOT Witch, you fruit! -:- Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 18:17:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- To: Katie Darling..... -:- Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 17:39:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie Darling -:- He he he he... brilliant -:- Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 19:27:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Helen -:- He he he he... brilliant -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 00:19:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Thelma -:- Katie outing me as a lesbian is very cruel -:- Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 19:42:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Disculta -:- Katie outing me as a lesbian is very cruel -:- Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 23:49:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Thelma -:- Which one is the one in crotchless chaps, Katie? -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 04:09:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia, a Scorpio Woman -:- Thelma, Sign me up......:))(nt) -:- Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 21:53:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Thelma -:- Thelma, Sign me up. As a lesbian or a Scorpio? NT -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 03:00:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia, a Scorpio Woman -:- Thelma, sign me up as a Scorpio Woman who loves... -:- Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 15:40:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie Darling -:- by the way, here's my e-mail -:- Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 00:00:30 (GMT)


Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 06:45:53 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Another Michael Donner comment
Message:
Down below, Michael Donner said the following:

if we finally get the concept that m is not really about spreading k rather about self gratification we begin to see a pattern to al that he does.

he wants to fly, loves flying...so he creates decca and perpetuates the myth that its all about getting round the world to spread k.

I think this summarizes the whole trip in a nutshell, and it's what I have always thought myself. When premies say Maharaji is tireless, for example, in flying around the world in his $40 million plane to 'spread knowledge,' the reality is he LOVES to fly his plane around the world, and he LOVES to be swooned over and waited on wherever he goes. This is not a labor for him. He likes it. The 'spreading knowledge' crap is just that. That's why he has been such a miserable failure at 'spreading knowledge' and has fewer followers in the West than he had 20 years ago, and the aspirants are almost nonexistent, but he has been fantastically successful in amassing wealth and luxury for himself. Where his priorities are should be obvious to anyone with a brain.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 19:15:32 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Thanks Joe and Donner ( keep bringing good stuff )
Message:
I am glad you made new threads with these, I would not have wanted to miss them.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 16:21:06 (GMT)
From: Richard
Email: post@rmi.net
To: Joe
Subject: Need for an essay section
Message:
Joe,

Thanks for bringing that up to the top. Yesterday was a mind blower (especially my coming out party) so I was afraid a lot of these nuggets would be lost. There are quite a few heartfelt and telling comments by Mike Donner tucked into many recent threads - some now inactive. Also one about how boring it was to wait around to get high with M. Plus all of the first-hand accounts by Dettmers and others

I've been thinking, and maybe it's already in place, but there needs to be a 'essay' type section or something similar where all of the credible anectdotes plus insightful comments can be assembled by topic for others to reference. Otherwise many observations will fall inactive in all the current enthusiasm.

I know Jean Michel has been doing this as a *Best Of* so, I'd be willing to help do this (after all, designing publications for M was my service so why not continue). J-M?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 17:39:37 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Need for an essay section
Message:
. Also one about how boring it was to wait around to get high with M. Plus all of the first-hand accounts by Dettmers and others

I think I must have missed that one. Can you find that one and bring it up top?

I agree re the essay section. I think there is a section for a lot of what Michael Dettmers has had to say, but I think one for Mr. Donner would also be appropriate. Of course, I haven't the slightest idea how to do that, but there seem to be a number of technologically advanced people around here who do all that quite well.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 18:01:57 (GMT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Here's the getting high with M story
Message:
This was under Jim's thread accusing Mike Donner in jest of being a Premie Plant. I made a pun out of it. (I just reread this and it would be fun to hear what M was like with a canabinol buzz.)

RR: Speaking of premie plants Donner, here's a question that'll prove who you are once and for all. Who rolled 'em. You or the Sat Guru?

DONNER: Not really sure who rolled them. never me and i doubt it was m. probably the butler...alvaro or john or patrick or whoever. by the way, i never smoked with m in the kitridge building (i don't think) but more then once around his home.

on a personal note my ussual feeling around the 'residence' was most often boredom. the endless hours of hanging around waiting to be called upon, waiting to give a report, waiting to be asked a question..even waiting to party that evening, whatever was mostly boring, boring, boring. i remember being envious of dettmers because he could come and go, had arranged a system of appointments with m. i tried that once and he mocked me...who did i think i was dettmers, he said with a laugh.

so i had to create excuses to be away from the endless waiting, gossip, dish washing, mindless stories told again and again, the litttle dramas of the fears and concerns of the inner staff.

my nature was active, social, let's do something, kick this thing into gear...so, i figured, as i often did to justify the situation, that he was just busting my nature, creating situations for me to surrender to him in. but god it was painful most of the time.

and what did that say in my head when the 'satsang' kicked in? what an ungrateful retch i was, couldn't even relax at the lotus feet...boy, i sure needed to get straighten out and dr. m knew all about me and just what i needed to get fixed.

even getting stoned a few times a month in miami or malibu was boring to me. but imagine not showing up...choosing other friends over such a covetted opportunity. great balls of fire.

RR: And to think almost everyone else would have walked on glass on their knees to SPEAK with M. Your description of the boredom and bad treatment at M's whim is one less brick in the wall.

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Date: Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 03:22:14 (GMT)
From: such
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Malibu Joint: Bustin' Loose! Alien Love Child! (nt
Message:
hot off da press...
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Date: Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 00:45:36 (GMT)
From: Mark
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Here's the getting high with M story
Message:
in response to your response and donner's now on inactive.

I did not in my mind betray confidences. Nor was outing anybody except M my intention.It's not like I was accusing him of being a murderer, total liar, or delusional madman, or enforcing an e-rated party,which is now common practice. Or his ( from other FORUM reports, 20 year relationship was Monica Lewes - who by the way I know somewhat and is a nice person )

Just an insensitive out of control egomaniac.

The piece was really about how long it's taken me, and the the Consensus post-premie, to call a spade a spade. And how his inconsistencies get glorified into personal darshan tales by the De-voted ones.

OK, and maybe goof on his appetite for getting 'high',despite the way he used to how he was 'Permanently in the Infinite State.' But frankly he's easy bait.

Koran has passed away. she was using me as her astrological consultant at that time. So I feel comfortable making her contribution to the Forum. Cynthia Korman was a friend, who Raja Ji plucked from her Dawn cigarette spokesperson role,and ensconsed as his 'piece' on the side.Later,Maharaji took his psychological run at her. Anyway,her life 'at the Lotus feet,where you can really let it go' was some sort of Human Rights violation to me, so I'm comfortable telling this bit of her tale.She told me that John explained the Acid story to her
directly. Joan Lahey,who suffered greatly and left 15 years ago,but was 'housemother' at that time, proudly explained to me about the big chunks of hash under the bed at the Dahlia St. residence. J.Hampton told me his bit, and Lou Schwartz told me the IHQ story. Teddy T. regaled me over lunch ( no vibe or anger or secrecy ).

Carol Eannace married the guy Marolyn was sleeping with,we met and chatted 10 years ago, and as she was a friend at the clinic in Denver in '74 and definitely OUT of the scene due to Rawat family dynamic .

Michelle was an art teacher to the master,and was also formally courted in San Antonio(during an instructor conference!).This was second hand but from an unimpeachable source.

Grace Maas and I had contact as she was Claudia's lady in waiting in '75-77, newly married, a real Soldier for the Lord, until the Lord courted her. She was gone it seemed overnight.

Gwen I formally remove as that was 2nd hand.

There are Many Names and Many Stories that I have assiduously avoided mentioning now and in years past.Even things like Anon's or Rt's identities. They would in my mind be sensational or unfair, and unneccessary.

Speaking of sensational expose's , how about hiring the reporters at the www.nakednews.com, to put together a video
on the dark side of our reverend Moon !

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Date: Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 02:11:25 (GMT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Mark
Subject: Mark: thanks for comments re: naming names, etc
Message:
Mark,

First of all, your original post was probably one of the most outrageous commentaries on the real world of M & K ever. I bow to your amazing story telling abilities. Post more often.

Secondly, I did not mean to tinkle on your Khumba Mela but a big red flag went up when I thought we might be having a belly laugh at the expense of the victims. I was echoed by others but most importantly by Susan who was molested as a child by Jagdeo and whose opinion I highly respect. Someone else reported their molestation by Padarthanand yeasterday as well. It was a very wild day.

So I'm still of two minds here. You've done a huge service to remove chinks from the Captain's armor. PWK's and Ex's alike had their minds blown yesterday by your post and I'm all for that. Shining your search light on the premie subculture mythology does wonders. At this point, though I hope none of those people were hurt further by that. Some may even be flattered by the notoriety, who knows. But I wouldn't want first hand information to be lost due to rumour or speculation. Donner said he backed off from posting because of false speculation.

So, I'll leave it at that and perhaps someone else can weigh in with another perspective.

Thanks for clearing up the details.

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Date: Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 06:36:37 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Mark: thanks for comments re: naming names, etc
Message:
Thanks from me too.

I don't see anything in what Mark said that is derrogatory about anyone except Maharaji. All Mark actually said is that Maharaji came on to these women, and it sounds like they split. They all got out of the cult.

I didn't know Cynthia Korman, but it sounds like what Maharaji and Raja Ji did to her, which Mark knows from first-hand information, was so outrageous it needs to be said, just in the cause of justice.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 19:30:35 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Donner
Subject: Here's the getting high with M story
Message:
Donner I have to say I love the raw honesty in your writing. I cringe when I read it, I think my repression must work pretty well, as until I read something like that I don't recall how I thought as a premie....

But that story, and how you were trying to make the boredom into some sort of Divine Lesson...we all thougt like that. So guilt driven we were. I for one LOVED to chit chat and gossip...and constantly chastised and loathed myself for that weakness. The cult was set up to make us hate ourselves.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 19:30:34 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Donner
Subject: Here's the getting high with M story
Message:
Donner I have to say I love the raw honesty in your writing. I cringe when I read it, I think my repression must work pretty well, as until I read something like that I don't recall how I thought as a premie....

But that story, and how you were trying to make the boredom into some sort of Divine Lesson...we all thougt like that. So guilt driven we were. I for one LOVED to chit chat and gossip...and constantly chastised and loathed myself for that weakness. The cult was set up to make us hate ourselves.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 19:21:57 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Thanks...**BEST?**
Message:
I missed that one. This is also a 'keeper.'
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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 14:38:30 (GMT)
From: Gregg
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Kali Yuga!
Message:
That was the excuse we used in the bad old devotional days for why the Perfect Master seemed awfully ineffective at his professed job: spreading enlightenment to more than a few thousand ex-hippies. Kali Yuga: the Age of Darkness had clouded the vision of all those unwashed reincarnated souls.

So what's the current excuse for the sluggish rate of the Knowledge explosion, huh? It's looking as bad as the Nasdaq! (Ba-ding!)

I guess the So-Called Guru can keep coasting along with a small coterie of grim-jawed veterans. Other gurus have maintained a comfortable lifestyle with less. Of course, Maharaji is accustomed to a lifestyle more 'obscenely lavish' than 'comfortable.'

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 08:39:17 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Joe, that is it in a nutshell for sure
Message:
I've told you before that I really enjoyed meditation. I went back to ''participate'' afer a 17 absence BECAUSE I thought K was great and that I would love to be part of teaching it to others.

It took me a year to find out that that was not what Rev Rawat has in mind. He knows he needs more aspirants in the west but only to finance his hobbies. Campaigns for more money were always accompanied by campaigns for more propagation. Cold, calculating and shrewd but shortsightedly smart. He lives from one trinket to the next and has built a house of cards. It's falling down around his ears as we speak. He is quite stupid.

He has no respect for the meditation and relies totally on the contact-high juju. Intelligent people find that boring after a while. It works just fine my five dogs rely on mine. They are so thrilled at the sound of their master's voice and they don't even mind anymore when I put a leash around their necks.

Here, premie. Come boy. Sit. Good doggy. I guess I shouldn't knock Rev Rawat's kinky little dominance/submission hobby. I just wish he'd be more honest and wear fishnet stockings and crack a whip.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 07:04:12 (GMT)
From: Mercedes
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Another Michael Donner comment
Message:
He is a very selfish person who could care less about any body else but himself.
#@'!* I am so mad and at the same time grateful for the clarity I am getting by reading and participating in this forum.
Thanks...
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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 06:38:05 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Very important to bring up top
Message:
I hope Michael and everyone doesn't mind, but I thought Michael Donner's comments were too important to be buried down in a thread below. It's another explanation for Maharaji's abuse of alcohol, and also his tendency to make everyone else do the dirty work and to take responsbility for nothing. Thanks, Michael

hi again, i think it was joe (above or below) who asked if i ever saw or heard of a more active intervention re m's drinking. i was never a part of one, bob mishler, to his credit once tried to speak to him about it and got no where of course.
interestng that the notion of m blaming others comes up in context of his abuse of alcohol. i personally believe that he uses booz to cover over the anxiety he feels by trying to play the part of someone in control and capable of creation and control and the reality that he is so bad, terribly bad at creating a lasting vehicle to responsibily spread knowledge.

his blame was constant. behind the door of his home or whatever he would not hesitate to name specific individuals he thought were 'idiots (and worse)'. never to their face, never. i know he spoke about me in negatives more then a few times but to myface only occasionally would make some rude joke about my nature (his view of it) which would clue me to his hesitations about me (look, i'm gone,he was right, he could not trust me). i was sent many times to 'deal' with someone he was scapegoating and never allowed to quote him...try to get the message of dissatisfaction across without destroying the person and create some distraction for them, another service or whatever, and keep the ball of illusion moving forward.

for me, those were the most gut renching times as i carried a thing from my upbringing about fairness and respect for honest effort. i use to feeling and believe that those assignments were a test...that he knew more about me then i did and was determined to beat my sense of community and fair play towards others out of me for my own good so that i could surrender only to him. as i write this remembering, it brings up lots of saddness for me. over the years i have tried to mend some fences with some and let the rest go, trusting the universe to bring us round.

he was guttless, never dooing his dirty work. he even created double trouble, sending one of us on an errand to move someone, say something, only to publicly contradict the messenger. all part of some strange idea he had about stepping on any potential base of power other then himself. completely insecure. unable to manage honestly and openly what he himeself would put in motion.

i think alcohol was one means he chose to be able to get thru a day dealing with the contradictions he created himself.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 09:11:39 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Very important to bring up top
Message:
Reading all of Donner's and Dettmers' comments today about Rawat's alcohol usage made me think about the alcoholic's I have known including my own close brush with it.

I was wondering whether addiction to alcohol causes the problems and can be blamed, as is politically correct, or is alcoholism the solution to already existing problems.

I can only speak for myself. I used hard liquor (like cognac) for about ten years in the 80s as a way of deadening myself to inner misery and turmoil. My drunken temper tantrums and abusive behavior to others was caused by defects in my own character. The alcohol lowered my inhibitions about behaving so badly and also temporarily alleviated my bad conscience.

Fortunately I had enough sense to see that I had better do something about my negative outlook and attitude. The more I regained my mental health the less need there was to self-medicate with alcohol.

Now I usually only drink wine with dinner and joke that I don't drink liquor because I have too much Irish blood and it makes me want to fight; that alcohol made from grains evokes barnyard animals while alcohol made from grapes evokes the muses.

So I feel that, if liquor were truly an addictive drug, then everyone who drank it would be an alcoholic. Alcohol over-use or abuse seems to be self-medication for psychological ailments such as insecurity, shyness, inferiority complexes, feeling victimized, not in control and vulnerable.

Rev Rawat needs therapy but even more he just needs to wake up and smell the coffee and realize that he could solve all his psychological problems by giving up the silly game he is playing. His uneasy conscience would clear up overnight.

I sometimes give him the benefit of the doubt and think that he is trapped in a superstitious vortex of resentful obedience to a dead master, his father's agya and has not yet realized that he is not up to the job and doesn't have to do it if he doesn't want to. His heart's not really in it and he is more interested in the perks and trappings of the job than the job itself.

He may even think he's doing the right thing but as Shakespeare said: ''Doing the right thing for the wrong reason is the last and greatest treason.''


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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 22:53:09 (GMT)
From: Katie Darling
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: Maharaji's conscience
Message:
You said, 'I sometimes give him the benefit of the doubt and think that he is trapped in a superstitious vortex of resentful obedience to a dead master, his father's agya and has not yet realized that he is not up to the job and doesn't have to do it if he doesn't want to. His heart's not really in it and he is more interested in the perks and trappings of the job than the job itself.'

That sounds pretty probable and accurate to me. But I bet that when he's actually in the thick of it, sitting on a throne giving 'satsang' (I respect the word too much these days to use it without quotes for his drivel), he probably goes back into a world where it's all true. I think he must actually be very fragmented, and fragmentation is really dangerous for people around a fragmented person, because there is no accountability.

Your post was quite brilliant, as usual darling.

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Date: Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 03:41:02 (GMT)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: Katie Darling
Subject: Maharaji's conscience: non sequitur (nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 02:14:38 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Katie Darling
Subject: Thanks, Katie. I'm going to post some thoughts
Message:
about ''What if Rawat is Krishna?'' since he still refers to Krishna having to come again and again. Without giving the whole thing away, I'll say that my conclusion is that Krishna is an interfering busybody.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 04:43:24 (GMT)
From: The Birthday Goddess
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: it is in the UK! Happy Birthday Jethro! :) 3/15
Message:
Dear Jethro,
Happy Birthday you old ravin fart! :) I've been pushing to stay up until midnight, I have to work tomorrow, when I thought, duh...it IS 15/3 over there already!
Called to check with your trainspottin buddy as to the date, I've made more then a few mistakes in the past. :| He was clueless though! :)
Have a great day!
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 20:29:44 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: The Birthday Goddess
Subject: Many happy returns of the day (strange saying)
Message:
Returns of the day? Well, if re-incarnation is a fact, I hope that's a blessing.

Just remember:

Today is the last day of your life so far. ;)

Best,

Chris

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 09:30:15 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: The Birthday Goddess
Subject: it is in the UK! Happy Birthday Jethro! :) 3/15
Message:
Dearest Birthday Goddess,

Many thanks for your felicitations. I proudly enter my 53rd year with more power than ever before.

Fiances permitting, I hope to make the next Latvian in the USA and get your darshan.

As for the TrainspotterJi, he is a reincarnated fish and has an attention span of 20 seconds. But he does do his best and is lookijg really well lately, in spite of personal hardships.

Love from Jethro

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 12:21:56 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Jethro
Subject: You don't look a day over 52...
Message:
Happy birthday mate. Great to meet you and Barbara on Saturday and hope to do so again before long. Have a good one and don't do anything I wouldn't do (that's if you can find anything I wouldn't do...?)
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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 12:03:59 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: Happy Birthday to You
Message:
squashed tomatoes and stew,
something about custard
happy birthday to you.

Have a good one Jeth'. It was good to see you on Saturday. (Did hamzen get home yet?)

Anth, respect to his elders.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 12:02:03 (GMT)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: How many 'Fiances' have you got? nt
Message:
t hee
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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 04:52:30 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: The Birthday Goddess
Subject: Happy Birthday Jethro! Not another Fish
Message:
FV is like a bloody aquarium. I'm not Mahatma Trainspotter Ji couldn't remember.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 11:59:32 (GMT)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: Happy Birthday Jethro!
Message:
Hi Jethro,
Have a wonderful day! The 'Ides of March' was a good day for you, and for us who know you ! I'm sending some info off in the post.
Love to Barbara,
Kelly
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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 05:06:06 (GMT)
From: Bazza
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: I put a case of Boddies in the mail jethro NT
Message:
NT
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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 03:42:01 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Mea culpa!
Message:
I'd like to apologize for what I said back on March 10, 'In fact, without Knowledge I would have probably ended up as one of those 'troubled loners' we've been hearing so much about lately.'

That statement was uncalled for, childish, and inappropriate. What I meant to say is if Knowledge, if the Spirit can take you to a place of peace, the opposite of Spirit can take you to the opposite of peace.

Re-reading the above italicized sentence today was embarrassing, and the old Doggie has his tail between his legs.

I think the revelations about M has had more of an affect on me than I thought. Larkin was right! I was in the doghouse and growling disrespectfully.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 11:48:59 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Mea kaputa!
Message:
Hi Dog,

I appreciate your honesty here. It's been an education in leaving a cult to watch how premies of whatever degree of involvement have gradually come to terms with what they are involved with.

Sandy and Mike Finch have been similarly candid about their changing perspective.

It's refreshing Dog.

Thanks.

Anth dressed up like your dinner.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 06:33:19 (GMT)
From: Mercedes
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Mea culpa!
Message:
You wrote: I think the revelations about M has had more of an affect on me than I thought. Larkin was right! I was in the doghouse and growling disrespectfully.

I agree. It is a deep process, we grieve the loss and go through all the stages of loss, anger being one of them.
I've been crying a lot, and my poor body is a tangle of stress so I'll be getting a good massage tomorrow. Please take care and as Pat pointed out you were and are always a very precious human being.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 04:14:07 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Well, I always thought you were smart, Dog
Message:
Thanks for posting that. You would have been just as sweet, gentle and sensible man without K as with it. It is you who are the loving, kind, peaceful guy. K is only a reflection of what you are.

No wonder Capt Rawat has to drink himself to sleep. Must have a uneasy conscience. You don't need a Master. If you did then God would indeed be a sadist. You've got everything you need all by yourself.

Bless your cotton socks.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 04:05:23 (GMT)
From: Connie
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Bravo
Message:
The expression of your humanity brought a smile to my face, thankyou.

Take care
C

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 02:53:52 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: haharaji fear-mongering again
Message:
From www.enjoyinglife.org - What's new - 'Two journeys to Thessalonika':

'... After a short break, he was there in person, joking about where all the Greek gods had gone- possibly to apartments in Athens, as it was cold and lonely up on Mount Olympus. He told us how he comes to remind us, because there is so much to remind us of. He talked about the preciousness of life, how the presence of death is also a reminder, like a parking meter, ticking away.

He likened us to fish out of water, admiring the net, the boat, and even the knife facing us, forgetful of the heaven available now. He talked of the pain of confusion, and the joy of clarity. ...'

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 05:56:51 (GMT)
From: Psycho Path
Email: None
To: G
Subject: and talking of knives
Message:
Talking of knives, here's a nice one that will suit Maharaji up to the hilt. What he really needs and will get, given half the chance.

(OK, I know you'll delete this post)

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 20:23:10 (GMT)
From: sumo boy
Email: None
To: Psycho Path
Subject: and talking of knives
Message:
Hotel California revisited ..I told ya before:
' They stab it with their steely knives,
but they just can't kill the Beast '
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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 16:17:25 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Psycho Path
Subject: and talking of knives
Message:
I kinda wish you would sign your real name because some people may think I posted this...

I'd like to see goober get his comeuppance as well, but through the legal system.

FA, when you delete the threatening post, feel free to delete this one as well.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 16:52:59 (GMT)
From: Psycho Path
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: and talking of knives
Message:
Why would anyone think it's you, gerry? Are you a bit psycho too? Come on now, it's a nice looking piece of cutlery, don't you think?

Look, all I'm doing is voicing what a lot of people feel too. I see no strong protestations here.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 20:57:09 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Psycho Path
Subject: Knives are needed, if you're trapped in a net ...
Message:
... and if using the phrase 'the sword of truth' is still permitted in this politically correct age, then how about 'the knife of logic' too? (a knife that should be applied to many of the Maha's sayings)

For instance - there's no getting away from the fact that he constantly harps on about 'gratitude'.

Well, in the spirit of good taste, hasn't it occurred to him that people might just be aware that the only thing that enables him to live such an obscenely extravagant lifestyle is the gratitude of other people? His wealth is founded on hand-outs from others.

The biggest beggar in the world keeps telling other people that THEY should be grateful????????


as if he'd have an ulterior motive for doing so ...
.
.
.
(ugh, what IS the emoticon for sarcasm?)

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 03:09:39 (GMT)
From: moldy warp
Email: None
To: G
Subject: Ricki Martin upholds the word of the Hamster
Message:
I followed the link to wit and wisdom (so-called) from your link above. Here is the post of a premie from my home town!
From 'An audience with Ricki Martin':
'When asked how he relaxes after his concerts Ricky replied: 'Nothing but doing yoga and 'listening to myself' works.' And he told his celebrity audience: 'Try it, it really works!''
Bizarre : Does this premie think Ricki Martin is a premie? Is he a premie? Or is he setting up his own cult??


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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 03:30:49 (GMT)
From: Bazza
Email: None
To: moldy warp
Subject: Ricki Martin premie - hmmm could be
Message:
I had to go film him doing a photo shoot not long ago, sort of a rockumentary clip for MTV. Tell you what, he's an arrogant prick, glib and completely shallow. So yeah, could be a premie!!
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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 04:15:56 (GMT)
From: MARK
Email: None
To: Bazza
Subject: GOT THE TECHNIQUES FROM YOGANANDA ASMRAM (NT)
Message:
SO HUNG
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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 06:57:56 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: MARK
Subject: who-ricki martin?? you?? please say. n/t
Message:
wouldja?
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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 14:41:37 (GMT)
From: mark
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: who-ricki martin?? you?? please say. n/t
Message:
Mr Martin. Saw it on a VH-1 show about him. He meditates before
doin his vida loca elvis thing on stage.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 01:33:13 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Anth
Message:
Are you back from your holiday?

I was reading your conversation with CW. Have you noticed his last post? Doesn't he sound like Djuro?

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 12:01:04 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Salam Salam.
Message:
Hi Salam,

I'm not on holiday- although I did nip over to London for the Latvian night, which was a real hoot and a great meal. You'd have loved it Salam. All sorts of wild loonies and forum characters there.

I'm tied up in work right now, and don't have much spare energy. Plus, it's almost time for us to be on the move again.

I spotted CWs response.

I've got a suspicion I may know the Cat quite well. I did ask, but didn't get a reply- other than he or she 'is not JS', which I took to be the supermarket chain owner John Sainsbury. There go my cheap kangaroo steaks.

Anyway, Dot and I want to come down under sometime, so maybe we can meet the Cat and find out. He or she did go for a period of offering to meet up for a pint with a couple of folk.

Take care
anth the euronomadwithanachinggonad

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Date: Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 00:19:28 (GMT)
From: Shropshirewoman
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: The Cat......
Message:
..... is John Sheridan.

Some drunken lesbian.

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Date: Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 11:49:50 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Shropshirewoman
Subject: Who is John Sheridan?
Message:
Sounds like the title for a song, or maybe a paperback.

Anth still seeking the mistress of perfection.

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Date: Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 15:58:09 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Anth, I don't believe that you
Message:
don't remember John Sheriden.
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Date: Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 16:46:46 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: Jeth'
Message:
I only just remembered my own name ten minutes ago.

Course I remember the punk. Him, John and Sarah came and lived with us just after Sarah was born. They stayed a year then went down under.

Wasn't that the same time you lived just up the road in Groveway Jeth'?

Anth still doing the Lambeth Walk.

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Date: Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 17:54:54 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Anth, I lived in Groveway 76-77 and then moved
Message:
to Kalissier Ave when the ashrams went male-female.(One of the saddest day of my life).

All my life people have told me that I have a bad sense of humour.

Whatever happened to John S?

jethro

PS regards to Dot, it was great seeing her again

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Date: Sat, Mar 17, 2001 at 00:08:05 (GMT)
From: Catweasel
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: Anth, I lived in Groveway 76-77 and then moved
Message:
He and Sam are bending Banana's for a living south of Brisbane.
Hard work , specially when they are green.
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Date: Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 01:38:18 (GMT)
From: Thelma
Email: None
To: Shropshirewoman
Subject: Is the Catweasle a drunken lesbian or you? NT
Message:
k
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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 01:09:29 (GMT)
From: Bazza
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Millenium Article by Ken Kelley. Part 1.
Message:
Ladies and Gentlemen, for your edification and amusement.....

An hilarious article written by Mr Ken Kelley (who also wrote the Pat Halley article for Penthouse magazine) concerning the Millenium 73 debacle.

It is rather long, and so has to come in 2 parts due to limits on posting, but well worth the read. Enjoy.

PART ONE:

Over the Hill at 16



(written by Ken Kelley, first published in February 1974 edition of Ramparts magazine)



'Either Guru Maharaj Ji is for real, or he's the biggest fraud of all time'


- Rennie Davis


 

Walking down the plane ramp, it suddenly hits me that this is Houston, capital of 20th Century Texas, nerve center of space exploration, and home of the Astrodome. Its builders designed this Eighth Wonder of the World as a temple for football, baseball and conventions. But its true purpose, as Rennie Davis and the others in the Divine Light Mission have proclaimed, is to be the launching pad for the 16-year- old Messiah from India, Guru Maharaj Ji. For three days it will contain the first God-in-the-Flesh in 1,973 years: Millenium '73.


'Hurry up, brother, Guru Maharaj Ji's gonna be on nationwide TV at midnight,' frantically motions one devotee, his eyes big as a sacred cow's. A thick semicircle gathers around the portable TV outside the Delta Airlines satellite, and as the Gillette commercial fades and the corpulent figure swathed in satin appears, the battlecry of the believers erupts. 'Boliya Shri Satgurudev Maharaj Ki Jai!' pierces the airport hum, startling several middle-aged baggage-claimers and travellers.


'Guru,' the terribly earnest NBC interviewer is saying, 'If you don't mind me asking, do you have the same problems, the same likes and dislikes, of a typical child your age?' Guffaws around me. The God-head answers in a bland, bored monotone. 'See, people of all ages are looking for perfection.' Then, adds, with an imperious flick of the royal wrist, 'But I have it..'


The flashing lights of incoming planes brings to mind the previous week in Chicago, where Rennie Davis and his six co-defendants from the Chicago 7 were on trial once again for their contempt citations handed down four years ago by Judge Julius Hoffman. But Rennie was painting a scenario far removed from the courtroom ennui.


'I tell you, when those flying saucers land, this whole universe is gonna stand up and take notice that the Lord has come,' he had announced to his bewildered former comrades, in the high-pitched squeal that characterizes premie-talk. 'There are a couple of premies [A premie is a Guru devotee; the word is taken from the Hindi for 'lover.'] whose souls have been taken over by the spirit of the UFOs, and we know now that they are Venutians. Through them we have learned that the UFOs consider Guru Maharaj Ji to be master of not just the human race, but literally of the whole universe. The Venutians say they are finally going to land and openly identify themselves, now that people are receiving Guru Maharaj Ji's Knowledge. And,' he confides, 'One woman in Houston is a medium for Lao Tze, through the Ouija Board, and He has told us that 144,000 people will come to Millennium, the number the Book of Revelations says will be on hand for the second coming. That might just be a conservative estimate--I think more like 200,000. Lao Tze also told us that Madame Binh will receive Knowledge along with Tran Van Duong, but that Chairman Mao will die before he has the chance.'


The Bantam paperback, 'Who Is Guru Maharaj Ji, just arrived, and Rennie passed it around the defense table. To his co-defendants he inscribed the flyleaf with a line borrowed, ironically, from Herman Kahn: I know I'm asking you to Think the Unthinkable.' And to Tom Hayden, formerly his closest political mentor, but now the most openly hostile to his newfound calling, Rennie added a kicker: 'if two years from now this whole thing turns out to be a fraud then well laugh about it and be back in each other's arms again as friends.' Hayden returned the book.

[THE GURU COMES TO TOWN]


Wednesday afternoon, the day before Millennium's Astrodome opening, 3,000 premies wait eagerly in the merciless Texas sun for the Cessna Cardinal to land and deposit the Perfect Master in their midst. The Divine Light Mission press release has said that twice that number would turn out, but this misestimate is minimal given the fact that the cosmos itself seems to have sanctioned the event. The Guru's astrologers say that a grand cross in the sky formed by four planets, a rare occurrence, signifies the galactic obeisance; and the Comet Kahoutek, it is discovered, will appear for the first time in 75,000 years the day after the last Millennium event. (Bal Bhagwan Ji, the Guru's 21-year-old brother and the grey eminence behind the Divine Light Mission, has his own cosmological etymology: 'K-0; Knock Out. H-0-U; Houston. T-E-K; Texas. Knock Out Houston, Texas,' he told a crew of TV interviewers.)


Suddenly the plane lands, a flower-draped green Rolls Royce pulls up, and the agitated premies let loose with another divine yelp. Mata Ji, the Holy Mother, ascends the makeshift stage, her omnipresent diamond nosepin glittering in the sun, and sits in a white crushed velvet chair slightly below and to the immediate left of The Throne. Brother Bal Bhagwan Ji enters and sits in direct apposition to the right of The Throne. Then Bhole Ji, 20, who has charge of the 40-80 piece (depending on the press release) cosmic orchestra, Blue Aquarius, sits next to Bal Bhagwan Ji, followed in the divine pecking order by Raja Ji, 19, who does nothing. With the exception of Bal Bhagwan Ji, the entire Holy Family sits sweating plumply in the 95 percent humidity like the before-pictures in a Weight Watchers ad. Finally, the Kid himself emerges and waddles to his posh gold velvet Throne, waves his arms Nixon-style, and speaks for five minutes: 'Well, I think this is just going to be fantastic. People are going to discover who God is, and I think it's about time people know who God is.' All around premies are swooning. (Being in the presence of any member of the Holy Family is considered a holy experience called darshan. Being in the presence of the entire Holy Family is the royal flush of darshan.) Several break down in tears and utter throaty sobs in the arms of their friends.


Rennie Davis enters and sits on the floor between Guru Maharaj Ji and Bal Bhagwan Ji. Bowing and kissing the feet of any Holy Family member is called pranaming, and Rennie has it down to a fine art by now. After placing a golden-flowered lei under one of Guru Maharaj Ji's divine chins, Rennie dives to the divine toes, kisses them, and in the flick of an eye does a double-jacknife over to Bal Bhagwan Ji, where he repeats the magic buss, 'Boy was I blissed out,' he tells me as we ride back to the Astrodome together, and he describes the experience of sitting between the Holy Siblings.


By the next day it's obvious that this Godathon will disappoint those who had been predicting for the last few months that it would wash over America's youth and fill their cosmic hunger for belief. At the noontime opening ceremonies, fewer than 7,000 followers have swarmed onto the Astroturf; the stands are virtually empty. Rennie has predicted that Walter Cronkite would cover this millennial event live over CBS; but instead there is a cynical Paul Krassner and the equally iconoclastic staff of the local Pacific radio station, KPFT. A dozen jumbo jets were supposed to transport 10,000 of the faithful from India; fewer than 100 managed to straggle in. A religious exposition delineating all the world's major religions was to have been shown in the adjoining Astrohall; but ecumenism is represented only by contingents of Hare Krishnas and Jesus Freaks trying to outdo each other in the vehemence of their anti-Guru arguments.


'Why are you so opposed to Guru Maharaj Ji?' one young premie woman innocently inquires of a Krishna at the gate. 'Since when does the Supreme Lord recommend that you push in on your eyeballs, plug up your ears, and taste spit, all the while sitting under a blanket, as the proper way to receive Him into your hearts?' snorts the Krishna. The premie is aghast, her face ashen. Not only has he reviled her Lord, but in the process revealed the most sacred of secrets: the Knowledge Session, wherein the Guru instills his devotees with holy divine grace. (The incident makes the next day's Houston Chronicle.)


Outside the gates of the Astrodome, the Jesus Freaks are inspired with animate fury-wailing banshees sent to exorcise the Antichrist. 'Go Away, go aaawwwaaayyyy, lest ye perish neath the holy fire from the hand of God!' 'You're the Devil, you are damned to hell!' 'Turn back. before God marks your soul for eternity!'


Up in the Astrodome press section in the third tier, the fourth estate is turning into a fifth column. The ascerbic comments from 50-odd writers from the Washington Post to the underground press is nearly as harrowing for the premies as assaults from Jesus and Krishna freaks. They are treating the event more as a divine comedy of errors than the greatest event in the history of mankind. And all the premies can do to counter this overt cynicism is to promise a better performance. 'There's so much energy here - that's what counts, and wait till tonight - the stadium will be full,' pleads one premie press liaison. 'Yeah, full of empty seats,' retorts a jaded journalist. 'You really can't judge this until Guru Maharaj Ji himself appears,' she persists.


After due pomp and circumstance, the Kid ascends his seven-story-high Throne (it originally was to be 15 stories), amid the tumultuous throbbing of his adoring apostles. The set is striking. The first level of the stage is reserved for the mortal wing of the program; specifically, the American DLM heavies. Next level is the Blue Aquarius platform, and atop it is the section for Mahatmas -the holy dispensers of Divine Knowledge. Crowning the entire stage is, of course, the Holy Family perch. Flanking it are two huge 20-foot- by-20-foot neon Texaco signs, aptly complementing the Guru's flame-shaped Throne. A vibrating rainbow-pattern light show is projected directly above the Throne, topped by an enormous American flag, on either side of which are the Astro scoreboards. The $75,000 tab for the three days for which the DLM rented the Astrodome includes the rights to flash its own blissed-out blandishments on the boards, ranging from quaint quatrains ('Roses are Red, Violets are Blue, Sugar is Sweet . . .') to abstruse passages from the Old Testament. The great bulk of premies cavort on the playing field itself. The stadium's very emptiness adds to the acoustical echo effect so that when the premies shout the praises of their Master, their decibel level quadruples their numbers.


The first airport address two days earlier had prepared the uninitiate for the fact that, by conventional rhetorical standards, Guru Maharaj Ji is no spellbinder. His Hindu singsong accent and the squeaky vaccilations of his pre-pubescent voice add to his distinct lack of appreciation for dramatic cadence, though he fills his talk with chummy vernacular expletives like ain't, right-on, and far-out. Yet compared to the content of his message, his delivery is hypnotic. He alternates renditions of Brothers Grimm frogs, swans and puppydog tails, and Mother Goose morality with a teenage fascination for cars, cameras, and credit cards, all intertwined in a simpleminded logic designed to prove his divinity.


Cars, particularly, dominate the divine homily-not surprising, since at last count he owns six-mostly Rolls Royces and Lincoln Continentals. In his opening remarks alone, cars appear at least eight times, in a goofy juxtaposition to the fairy tales:


'I am talking about one thing-a car has four tires, and a car runs on four tires. And I can see that car running on four tires. There are cars also run [sic] on three tires, of course-in England they do. People have come from England, they might have seen those cars-very common. But I am talkin' about a car that's right there, it's on four wheels-not five, not six. There is a fifth wheel, but the car is not running on it, it's in the trunk. So there is a basic fact that I have understood. . . .'


The next morning there is a hastily-called press conference the DLM hopes will bolster its image; a little darshan for the unrekindled souls of darkness. But the mood moves from bad to worse, as it becomes obvious that the room is half-filled with shills from South America who stand up and deliver five-minute questions which are then tediously translated into English: 'Guru Maharaj Ji when are you going to visit Argentina where you are recognized by millions as the Lord of the Universe and whose people desperately await your coming and implore your mercy . . .' As it becomes apparent what is happening, the media questions, which begin timidly enough, become jugular, with the Houston contingent in the vanguard. 'Guru, when you say you are the Perfect Master, does that mean you have- a perfect body, too?' A curt and embarrassed 'No' brings a sacrilegious outburst. Since he has mentioned Watergate twice in his public appearances, I ask him if Nixon should be impeached or resign. 'I am not a politician; don't ask me about politics,' he snaps. 'Guru,' the woman from a Houston radio station drawls, 'if you're so concerned about the poor, why don't you sell one of your Rolls Royces and buy them some food?' He answers, 'if I gave them a Rolls Royce, they'd just come back in the afternoon and ask for another one, and I don't have another one to give them.' The queries are dismissed with such royal evasiveness and glib hauteur that finally the Newsweek man stands and declares that the event reminds him of an early Watergate press conference - 'I expect you to announce three weeks from now that all these statements are 'inoperative.' If you're God, I'm an atheist.'


On the way back to the Astrodome a premie friend sidles up to me and starts in with some satsang. (Satsang, 'truth-giving' in Hindi, is the process whereby the faithful verbally reinforce and justify their commitment to The Kid among themselves, and try to explain to outsiders why they have given up mind, body and soul to a boy whose divinity seems so well-concealed.) Having traveled on the divine bandwagon for almost eight months researching a book, I have been hit with every variety of satsang. It usually begins with a detailed rundown of the abysmally miserable pre-premie life of trying to shoot up everything from airplane glue to coffee grounds in a vain attempt to discover the Meaning of Life. But just before the Last Overdose, a divine coincidence miraculously sweeps the premie into Guru's arms and Instant Bliss.


The next movement in this dramatic form is for the premie to describe the masochistic depths to which he or she would go to grovel at the toes of the Lord, the more self-humiliating the better. the Kid himself dotes on inflicting such punishment; numerous tales abound of him dragging his followers into the mud, pushing them into rivers, and nearly slaughtering them on his motorcycle. (One ecstatic woman told me of the incredible rush she felt, when, late at night before the first day of Millennium, The Kid came barreling around the corner of one of the Astrodome halls in a golf cart, nearly mowing her down, before caroming off the wall and puttering off.)


Finally, there is a little parable, strikingly oral and infantile in character, using any variety of fruit, vegetable or candy, wherein you are told, that you really can't Know what the bliss is without Experiencing it. Believers like to say that Knowledge is like a banana--you can't describe the taste of a banana, you have to eat one to know. When I ask my friend if she couldn't at least make it an apple or avocado or something-that was three bananas in a row at that point-she sighs, then her eyes light up and she exclaims, 'Try it, you'll like it!'


The satsang process continues for as long as one is willing to subject oneself to what temporarily provides comic relief after a distressing event (such as a divine press conference) but which soon thereafter seems like the unfortunate gibberish of a brain-turned-jellybean. 'I have to go to the bathroom,' is the best way to extricate oneself from the divine drooling, though in one instance I was followed into the Astro-urinal by a cosmic zealot, until I explained to him that piss and bliss just don't mix.

(Continued next post)

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 19:05:34 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Bazza
Subject: thanks you great reading (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 18:33:20 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Bazza
Subject: Hey, I just figured it out...
Message:
. 'There are a couple of premies [A premie is a Guru devotee; the word is taken from the Hindi for 'lover.'] whose souls have been taken over by the spirit of the UFOs, and we know now that they are Venutians.

I think it was later discovered that the two premies taken over by UFOs thatn Rennie Davis was referring to were David Smith, who also channelled Hitler, and Rich Neal. How else could ou account for those 'songs?'

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 09:59:07 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Bazza
Subject: Article online on EPO
Message:
Here's the link:

Over the Hill at 16

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 18:08:08 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Rampart article updated with pictures!
Message:
Are you one of them ?

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 01:11:38 (GMT)
From: Bazza
Email: None
To: Bazza
Subject: Millenium Article by Ken Kelley. Part 2 .
Message:

[THE SECOND COMING IS A BUST]


By this time it is becoming evident that the Millennium is something of a divine bore. The premies' Passion Play is unbelievably sophomoric ('Jesus, I'm looking for you, where aaaarrree you?'). The attendance is as bare as a Hare Krishna's pate. Blue Aquarius proves it can perform everything from Mantovani to the Rolling Stones-poorly. And the World Peace Corps (divine bodyguards) encircling the stage area become avenging angels: threatening, cajoling and generally pushing everyone around. (Credit must be given, though, to The Kid's superb sense of irony-appointing only British WPCers to secure the stage, he neatly turned the tables on the White Man's Burden; this time around the Indian conscripts the Tory.) Sensing the troubles, even the flying saucers stay away, severely disappointing the flock, some of whom earnestly awaited the chance to hitch a ride on a UFO and give satsang to the Venutians.


The event has all the outward amenities of a rock festival; shirtless premie men sunbathing on the grass outside the stadium; premie panhandlers in the concourses pleading for donations to return to Los Angeles or Boston-or Marseilles; constant emphasis of peace-love-goodvibes; organic apple juice and peanut butter proliferate. Blue Aquarius performs an original number which panders exactly to that image ('Rock Me Guru Maharaj Ji, and Roll Me Tonight'). I am even taken aback by the number of long-haired, blue-jeaned premie. Women and short-skirted bra-less premie women; true hardcore premie regimen demands the males look like insurance adjusters and the females like nuns.


The countercultural trappings are completed by the scores of gurupies -premies who flit about looking for members of the Holy Family to coo over like their rock counterparts outside Mick Jagger's hotel room, though most premies freak out when asked if they're sexually attracted to any of the sacred quartet. On Friday night a few gurupies even manage to storm the lower level of the stage before being swiftly ushered off by the WPCers-but only after they worshipfully prostrate themselves before the Perfect Master, whose apotheosis is complete: he's decked out in a huge, bejeweled gold mitre, the 'Crown of Crowns for the King of Kings.'


'In God We Trust, Houston or Bust' proclaim the DLM posters, and by Saturday night, 'bust' was the best description of Millennium 73. 'Love is Free,- Truth is Free, Admission is Free,' blaze the DLM bumperstickers, but the prospect of getting a free glimpse of the Astrodome (normally it costs a dollar just for a tour) is not enough to lure in the Houstonians, whom the DLM was counting on to fill the stadium. At five o'clock a plaintive appeal comes from the microphone: 'if every premie will go out into the streets of Houston and bring back five Houston residents, we'll be able to fill the Astrodome!' Even the most devoted devotees ignore the pitch.


But the beauty of divine logic is that everything is perfect. Whatever is, is right. If only 10,000 people appear in the flesh, it's because Guru Maharaj Ji wants it that way. 'It's a test for the premies,' says Rennie Davis, in a revision of his Chicago estimates. 'Guru Maharaj Ji deliberately disappointed their preconceived notions, as he always does. 'Anyway,' Rennie is saying before giving his introduction to the last night's divine appearance. 'It's not the numbers, it's the significance of the event-only 12 people came to the Last Supper.'


(A week before Rennie had told me of another test for the premies when he admitted that Mahatma Fakiranand, one of the first Mahatmas to give Knowledge in the U.S., had been the one to nearly murder an underground reporter in Detroit last August after the reporter had thrown a pie in The Kid's face. The DLM had tried to cover up the fact by simply giving the Mahatma's Indian name and falsely claiming that he had been banished from the Divine Light Mission.)


Rennie's final task that last night harkens back to his role in the anti-war movement-the fundpitch. His taut face and furrowed brow is most unblissful as he asks all premies to drop their spare change into passing buckets. The Kid's line, after the buckets go around, is an interesting contrast: 'This knowledge is free-we do not ask for your money.' To which he adds a familiar note: 'We all drive cars, and if you run out of fuel, that's it-you got to hang around some- where and stop and get some fuel. If a battery goes dead, that's, it. If something goes wrong with the engine, that's it. So it seems that apparently something is guiding something else, and something is guiding something else, and something is guiding something else, and then something is guiding something else. And it's just like seems [sic] to be a series -of things in this world that are making one or the other thing go.'


'Jesus!' says erstwhile child-evangelist Majoe Gortner, watching the whole show from the stadium floor. 'The kid is so lame. If they had someone with some Charisma, someone who knew what they were doing . . .' he winks slyly 'someone like me, they'd bust this place wide open.' I counter, that maybe if the DLM finds out he's out of work the premies will make him an offer. 'They already have- don't print that.'


The Kid exits and a gravel-voiced Mahatma approaches the microphone. In an eerie, high-decibel screetch he leads the devotees in five or six final war whoops. It is then that something snaps inside me. Scenes from the Nuremburg stadium flash a frightfully exact parallel: the martial chanting, the cult of total obedience, the arms flailing about, thousands of eyes weeping in blind adulation. Blue Aquarius starts up with another song, but the notes don't register.


I run up to the press box to collect my stuff, thinking that indeed Guru Maharaj Ji has wrought a miracle: I never thought I would think kindly of Hare Krishnas or Jesus Freaks, but at this point I'm even ready to buy their goddam sticks of incense or say a Hail Mary. Linking arms with a friend we dash through the first turnstile we find and fly across the parking lot. But the gate is closed, and the cyclone fence with its barbed wire streamers stretch for a mile in either direction. 'Remember Stalag 17,' she says, and we crawl belly-up on the concrete, squeeze under the gate and head back to the free world of Conrad Hilton.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 05:18:46 (GMT)
From: Brian
Email: brian@ex-premie.org
To: Bazza
Subject: Great article
Message:
Thanks Bazza. I got the copy you sent me, and forwarded it on to JM so we can get it online.

I laughed out loud all the way through it. The worst part for me is that I went with my new premie bride to Millennium on our honeymoon. If those damn Venutians had only showed up that marriage probably would have lasted :)

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 07:28:05 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: Yes, thanks Bazza
Message:
I don't think I'd ever seen that article before. Kelly is a good writer. Great sarcasm, which is about the only way any of that could be written about.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 04:50:11 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Bazza
Subject: Thanks Bazza
Message:
I hope you scanned it and didn't have to type it. Were we ever suckers. Nearly 30 years later as a fat old fart it looks ridiculous.

Just watched ''Steal this Movie'' about Abbie Hoffman. Same people (Rennie Davis, Tom Hayden etc) same youthful enthusiasm and naivete but so much more human. No UFOs, little green men or a little brown man with two malas under his two chins.

The little shit stole our revolution.

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Date: Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 06:12:59 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: What a great analysis, what a hoot...nt
Message:
sdfs
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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 04:58:51 (GMT)
From: Bazza
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: My favourite quote:
Message:
'I was followed into the Astro-urinal by a cosmic zealot, until I explained to him that piss and bliss don't mix'

Love that guy, wish I could contact him and see if he's into writing a follow-up story.

No I didn't type it I used modern technology! JM will have the pics that go with it tomorrow.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 05:33:19 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Bazza
Subject: talking about modern technology, Bazza and Brian
Message:
Any chance of getting pics attached to Journeys or white page entries?
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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 05:00:48 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Bazza
Subject: My favourite quote: I had too many
Message:
I couldn't believe Rennie Davis' spchiel. He sounded like the craziest acid head I've ever known.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 05:10:07 (GMT)
From: Bazza
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: Rennie Davis on acid - could be
Message:
To come up with this little gem:

'There are a couple of premies whose souls have been taken over by UFOs and we know now that they are Venutians. Through them we have learned that the UFOs consider Guru Maharaj Ji to be master of not just the human race, but literally of the whole Universe.'

Wonder if that was from the pink tab or the blue tab?

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 07:18:45 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Bazza
Subject: Did Rennie Davis really say that?
Message:
I must have blocked that out. I'm sure even then it would have sounded ridiculous. Did Rennie really say that -- about Venutians? And what are 'Venutians?' Are they beings from Venus?

Unfortunately for Rennie, there is the Lord of the Universe Video, in which Rennie explains that the Astrodome and the Astrodome Hotel were created only for the purpose of housing Maharaji and his message. Proof of this was that the faucets in the divine loo had swans on them. Woooowoooo. Bohle Shri!

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 07:49:28 (GMT)
From: Connie
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: they're from Venutia, you know
Message:
a planet in a galaxy far, far away.

Oh Gawd this is too much, once again I think drugs and scrambled brains were my only excuse.

Maybe human scrambled brains were a Venutian delicacy?

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 09:18:39 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Connie
Subject: Hi Connie
Message:
You said: ''....once again I think drugs and scrambled brains were my only excuse.''

Me too. Join the club. I was a Hindu hippie who could not quite believe that the 60s were over and that the revolution had not happened. Big Brother seemed like the way to go.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 07:27:33 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Rennie Davis is why i came to knowledge. oy.
Message:
he was the first premie i ever heard give satsang, in st marks' place in the village, fresh back from india and maharaji's side. i figured if rennie had checked it out, it HAD to be real, man. rennie couldnt be fooled--he'd defied the us government and the chicago pigs, right??? it HAD to be the genuine article.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 07:31:47 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Me too.
Message:
I remember hearing that Rennie Davis was following Mahaha, and that was a persuasive thing for me too. When I was in High School, I followed the Chicago 7 trial religiously, and even took a train into Chicago to try to sit in the courtroom. I think Rennie's involvement was a sign to people with a more political bent that following the Lord of the Universe was where it was at.

With what has been happening here recently, I expect Rennie, or maybe some Venutians, to show up on this Forum any minute.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 05:47:45 (GMT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Bazza
Subject: How about a nice, healthy Millenium Bar
Message:
This article is so long, how about a nice snack to energize you.

Millenium Bar

Bar courtesy of Guy Rollins - are you still hoping the market will pick up on these Guy?

Also a link to a Millenium poster Babs sent me. (Hey, we're all millenium posters aren't we?)

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 14:56:55 (GMT)
From: Bazza
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: John Chan
Message:
Noticed the by-line on the millenium poster said the late John Chan. When did he pass away, anyone know? Shame, I really liked him and worked with him some doing Productions service, he was a nice, gentle guy.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 16:35:46 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Bazza
Subject: Re:John Chan
Message:
I heard that John Chan died sometime in the nineties. He was driving on one of the canyon roads in Malibu and went off a cliff. I've oftened wondered what his last thought was. (I can't remember who told me this, so I can't vouch for the accuracy of this story).

I remember him being terrified about giving satsang to the crowds at Kissimmee.

When he visited my community, I fixed him dinner and he wanted his tofu boiled instead of sauteed.

An unusually gentle person.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 16:43:00 (GMT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Re:John Chan
Message:
Yes, it's true I'm sad to say. A few years back, John wanted to learn to drive - never had driven before. So friends taught him how and he got his permit. He lived way up one of those canyons near Malibu and apparently just drove off the road in the fog. Very sad and an incredible human being as well as an amazing talent. A devotee to the end and I heard M attended his service so, perhaps his devotion was repaid a tiny bit.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 17:57:27 (GMT)
From: NotSoQuietThisTime
Email: joemomma@ex-premie.org
To: Richard
Subject: I knew John Chan...
Message:
and he was indeed one of the loveliest people I ever met.
Your little hate-fest here would have sickened him.

I can just see your responses now, LOL, *who me? hateful? I don't know what you're talking about...* Some of you are indeed nice people, I'm sure. Even I, the brainwashed, helpless little sheep that I am, find some of your posts funny. But lots (and I do mean MOST) of them are just plain bitter bile. (Lay you odds this post gets some vicious responses! You just can't help yourself, can you?)

Awwwww, are we still upset that we didn't become initiators? Or that you had to leave the warm and fuzzy ashram and make your way into that big bad scary world where people actually WORK for a living? Waahhh, I was cheated!!! Awww, so sad, so sad....LOL...

Nice little cult you've created here. Complete with group-think, code-words, highly exalted insiders, and an irrational focus on someone and something you allegedly don't care about any more.

Or don't you? Any of you 'ex's' find yourself thinking about M? About the quiet inside of you? About how REAL your happiness felt to you? And the SCAREST PART is that you KNOW that you still can feel that when you shut up and focus?

So you need each other to stay in that hateful place? LOL! I LOVE the idea of you scruffy lot getting together to share! LOL! Oh, is instead some psycho-babble about 'the healing process' or 'purging toxins'?

Focus on M all you want. Paint him, libel him, tell the truth about him, 'out' him anyway you like. You people spend AN AWFUL LOT of time and energy on something you don't care about!!! Ask yourself why...why...why... Don't rationalize it to ME (I could give a rat's ass) but ask yourself....why...why...

Laughing near you, not at you,
last post from NotSoQuietGuy.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 23:38:11 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: NotSoQuietThisTime
Subject: Feeling a little desparate?
Message:
Must be hard seeing one after another of your fellow cult members wake up. Maybe you're just not ready, huh?

Here's where the porn sites send underage visitors (I'm told):

http://disney.go.com/park/homepage/today/flash/index.html?clk=1004398

Don't worry, be Grateful

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 20:31:05 (GMT)
From: NOYFB
Email: None
To: NotSoQuietThisTime
Subject: Interesting....
Message:
Is that your professional opinon, counsellor?
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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 20:42:11 (GMT)
From: NOYFB
Email: None
To: NotSo whatever....
Subject: PS
Message:
You obviously wouldn't have the balls to write this on your firm's letterhead and mail it in, as this would amount to an official statement, but I wonder if using your firm's computer and internet connection amounts to the same thing? Would your superiors approve?

Shame the policy here prevents me from giving out any details...it'll just be our little secret:) LOL!

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Date: Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 05:07:40 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: NOYFB
Subject: this just reeks of 'that love,that understanding'-
Message:
are you going to amaroo? got 800 bucks to throw away on someone who doesnt give a shit about your life? Or about anyone's life?
can you pinpoint exactly when it was that you mutated from wanting to bring peace to the world to hoarding all you could take?
can you remember when it was that you dropped all pretense of renouncing the Maya and the World and ran pell mell headlong into Materialism and selfishness?
what year was it, when you sold out your integrity and abandoned your soul?

what is it about our honesty that scares you so? last time i looked, free speech, and the right to assemble for redress of grievances, was still the Law of the Land, at least in the US. It'll be there when you're ready for it. In the meantime, we're exercising it freely, so do you mind?

what do you have the freedom to say? speaking of corporate letterhead, lets see you put your post, above, on your corporate letterhead and submit it to enjoyinglife.org. or send it to 31334 anacapa view drive, malibu CA. lets see what kind of response you get.

ISNT IT REMARKABLE: THAT YOU HAVE THE FREEDOM TO POST SUCH WORDS PUBLICALLY, HERE,BECAUSE OF OUR COURAGE, YET NOWHERE ELSE IN YOUR CULT'S ENTIRE LANDSCAPE CAN YOU DARE DO THIS??

HERE'S YOUR TOILET PAPER; THERES THE SINK.
DESPITE YOUR STINK, YOU'RE WELCOME. DON'T FORGET TO FLUSH--THE WAY TO MALIBU IS ALL UPHILL, REMEMBER.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 18:27:59 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: NotSoQuietThisTime
Subject: Just plain bitter bile
Message:
Spewing bitter bile on other people is not the way to convince them that they are being too bitter.

Your advice is insulting. I don't need to ask myself why I am an ex who posts on this Forum. I already know the answer. You say we don't care about this. But you're wrong. We do care.

You seem to think that the difference between a premie and an ex-premie has something to do with the inner experience of quiet and joy. Having been both a premie and an ex-premie, I am aware that the difference has absolutely nothing to do with one's inner experience. The difference is solely about the belief system about the master. Premies believe that their experience is due to Rawat's grace or influence, and exes have learned that Rawat has nothing at all to do with anybody's joy or peace or fulfillment or love.

We come into this world intact. The light is within me, always has been, and always will be. I do not need Mr. Rawat to turn the light on for me. And either do you.

p.s. your comment about John Chan is highly presumptuous. You have no right to speak for the dead. If John were still alive today, he might very well have been among the majority of past instructors who have now rejected Rawat.

I hope that you are true to your word and the above post is your last one here. At least, until you learn some manners, some facts, and some common human decency.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 23:42:24 (GMT)
From: such
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Yaweh! [mt
Message:
mt
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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 19:32:29 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Way to go, Way
Message:
This poor premie really is deluded if he/she thinks that his/her post was free of bitter bile. It was dripping with anger.

I guess one does see what is really in one's self. If you are bitter then all you see is bitterness in others.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 18:08:36 (GMT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: NotSoQuietThisTime
Subject: I knew John Chan...
Message:
and he was indeed one of the loveliest people I ever met

And definitely the least judgemental people I ever met. May he rest in peace. Too bad you had to spew your bitter bile all over his memory.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 07:12:40 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: At least they spelled 'Millenium' Correctly
Message:
How did that happen?
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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 14:20:49 (GMT)
From: sumo boy
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: At least they spelled 'Millenium' Correctly
Message:
as far as I can remember u spell millennium with TWO n...right?
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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 06:59:47 (GMT)
From: Mercedes
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: You guys made me laugh!!! (nt)
Message:
ha, ha
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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 05:26:52 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Bazza
Subject: Rennie Davis BURNT OUT on acid
Message:
Is he still a premie? I mean revisionist pewk? I almost feel inhibited to just have little chats on the forum since the hits have gone through the roof and threads disappear like lizard tails under a rock.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 00:52:54 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Non anons -- welcome to the Donner party!
Message:
Sorry Mike, and all, had to get in my joke. I guess I'm just a looser, Jim!

It seems that since Donner got on here and stated his case against anonymity, the architect (forget his name) posted, and at least 3 or 4 folks have come out of the closet. Let the party begin!

I understand the reason for anonymity, but just as Donner said, after a while, if no one knows who you are and where you've been, your comments aren't taken as seriously by those on the fence. Even us little nobodies had lots of friends and contacts in the interconnected premie world. There are still a few who must remain anon for various reasons that I do understand.

And no, it was NOT the world of the Master. He just told us that. It's really us. Thanks for being here, y'all.

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Date: Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 03:01:01 (GMT)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: 'Donner party':B careful w/ menu this time,please!
Message:
Howdy, I see you're tourists in these parts. Would you lucky folks like to try our traditional home-cooked specialty of the house -- real 'family-style' since 1846, here up at the ol' ex-premie Donner Pass Road-Kill Cafe? For starters, our soupe du jour is creme de tomate aux jambes...

Did someone say it's all USDA
can-able?

Can I bawl?

We'd just love to have you and any other 'survivors' over for dinner sometime... Kind of our own take on: PETa SURVIVOR - haha

How 'bout, ever go to a 'long pig' roast? Well, we have a most suckulent candidate in mind...

Peace and lentils,

a vege can able since 1970s

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 06:09:08 (GMT)
From: Psycho Path
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: Non anons -- welcome to the Donner party!
Message:
So why do people take my comments seriously, since I'm anonymous? I might be joking and not serious. On the other hand, I might just want to do some serious damage to Mr rawat.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 04:26:09 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: This joint is jumping
Message:
So many exes outing themselves today. So much TRUTH being spoken. Better than any satsang I've heard from the Bratguru lately. Yep, the truth clears the air and makes you high.

Sorry, Rev Rawat, the exes will save the world NOT you. Bye unless you want to become an ex too.

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Date: Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 15:45:11 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: Wouldn't that be something?
Message:
Goooomraji, an ex-what? Premie, Lord, Guru, or a metaphorical cannabal?
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Date: Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 20:06:56 (GMT)
From: such
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: But m needs Skeleton Key to open his Closet (mt
Message:
mt
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Date: Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 20:35:09 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Loaf and all
Subject: the inactive regarding the family of M
Message:
Hi
I wanted to clarify if I could. Loaf I don't want to go after M's boys in any way. Hell I'm too busy or lazy to do much for this site as it is.
I think I understood what you were saying, that they have been seemingly uninvolved, at least on the participation once called propogation level - oh or was participation once called service? Anyway, I don't see them doing much at all.
My real objection is to the attitude that they are 'kids' and to me this corresponds with an implied helplessness on their part.

A tough issue. The only comparison I can come up with is grown 'kids' who have had nice lfiestyles and opportunies due to one or more of their parents profitting from something illegal at others expense. Like drug dealing etc.
As one of those adults I'd keep silent out of love for my parents.(I think) I suppose it's the 'God Business' that gets my goat. And the question as to why none of them rebel or find it all too weird to not do something. It's so odd.
Guess we'll never know.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 03:19:32 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: another example
Message:
Just went to the cheap bedding store. You know, King Size sheet sets for only 25 bucks?
A guy comes up to me with a Moonie pin. Really. And asks for donations for Moon's upcoming talk in Phoenix.
Whether this was a scam or not I do not know although he could not have picked a worse crowd.
And... there is a point. Remember anyone?? how the Rev Moon's daughter spoke up and apologized for her part?
So, there is my point brought to you comps of Factory 2 U and some tall guy from Russia, so he said.
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Date: Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 19:30:21 (GMT)
From: Richard Rogers
Email: post@rmi.net
To: Everyone
Subject: Postie runs naked through the streets
Message:
Hello everyone.

Postie has told me he can't take it anymore - hiding under his sheet that is. The last time I saw him, he was running naked down the street yelling something about the Emporer's new clothes. He did tell me to say he loves you all, including the lurkers.

I am Richard Rogers. I received the techniques of knowledge and accepted Guru Maharaj Ji as my guru in 1972 in Tallahassee, FL from Mahatma Fakiranand. I went to Montrose and saw Maharaj Ji for the first time. I went to India in 1972, moved in the Tallahassee ashram in 1973 and was brought to DEnver in July 1973. I designed publications including Divine Times, And It Is Divine and Élan Vital until 1979. I quit practicing K and attending 'events' in 1988 but went to Long Beach a few times for the old 'community' and nostalgia buzz. I thought I'd 'moved on' but discovered otherwise after beginning the writing of my Journey stirred up unresolved emotions, thoughts and inner conflicts.

I've been lurking here for decades, it seems and began posting as Postie in the past few months after Susan's rejected attempt to communicate to M via Michael Dettmers. Today I'm prompted to 'out' myself by Mercedes courage in telling her story as well as Mike Donner and Guy Rollins direct question to me via email as to why the alias thing. I didn't have a good answer so here I am.

Thanks to all of you who've exchanged emails with me and treated my anonymity with respect. I will do the same for anyone who wishes to participate anonymously or contact me. If you knew me then or now and wish to contact me (pro or con re:M), my email address is above.

Heeeeere's Postie!

Richard

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 19:18:41 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Richard Rogers
Subject: streaking postie
Message:
Dear Richard,

Your posts are awesome and I am so glad you are now using your real name. I used a psuedonym for a long time myself before I felt safe enough to be Susan. It makes me feel good that the work Michael and I did trying to get Rawat and EV to deal with the Jagdeo problem was part of what got you to start posting.

Susan

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 19:34:20 (GMT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: streaking postie
Message:
Thanks Susan. After wading through months/years of mudslinging and speculation to find a jewel or two of wisdom, your honesty and courage stood out like Joan of Arc on the battlefield. I couldn't ignore that. And now Mercedes is speaking out, too.

By the way former and current mudslingers. At some point, it occurred to me that you had your reasons for anger (duh!) and I should try to listen to you more carefully.

The compassionate and kinder and gentler Postie (and humble and tolerant and fair and generous and witty and full of it)

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 02:43:32 (GMT)
From: Curious George
Email: None
To: Richard Rogers
Subject: Which one are you?
Message:
You could be all three and you even look a bit like Miragi with that hair style!

Great photos though - all of them!

Love Ya,

Curious George (Liz)

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 02:48:19 (GMT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Curious George
Subject: Which one are you?
Message:
Funny Liz. I'm the 'man this is better than acid' blissed-out hippie on the left with glasses and camera.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 02:54:40 (GMT)
From: Curious George
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Which one are you?
Message:
Looks like all that bliss better than acid has kept you young though. As M's chauffeur once said to me 'You've aged well!'

Love,

Curipus Goerge (Liz)

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 02:25:25 (GMT)
From: Tony Walker (Aussi Ji)
Email: None
To: Richard Rogers
Subject: Good onya mate! feels a little unusual doesn't it
Message:
G'day Richard,
I am glad I shed the anon,it was time and by the looks of things so are other onon's as well

Cheers Tony

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 01:05:01 (GMT)
From: Richard
Email: post@rmi.net
To: all
Subject: Thank you one and all
Message:
Your comments and emails are very touching indeed. I've had sweaty palms all day from the intensity of 'coming out' so your kindness and acknowledgement is much appreciated.

Richard

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 00:40:43 (GMT)
From: Suzanne
Email: None
To: Richard Rogers
Subject: Love the guy in the WPC hat.
Message:
What the hell is that? Gives new meaning to the word 'goofy.'
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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 00:39:28 (GMT)
From: Mercedes
Email: None
To: Richard Rogers
Subject: Postie runs naked through the streets
Message:
Dear Richard, welcome. I am touched, honestly.
See you soon.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 00:22:10 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Richard Rogers
Subject: Postie runs naked through the streets
Message:
Hey Richard,
I'm happy for ya! Congrats and many happy returns on being back 'in your mind.' (-;

Helen

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Date: Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 23:03:25 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Richard Rogers
Subject: Postie runs naked through the streets
Message:
Dear Richard,
Thanks for 'coming out' and for the picture. Welcome again. I liked your name Postie, I always said, to myself when I saw it, Postie Tostie. Yes I am strange. :) I have enjoyed your posts and your tempremant(sp) and have no problem with aliases but also think it is cool the way a lot of you are coming out with your names now. For those of you that use aliases I am sure it is a big breakthrough to become how you are here.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 20:23:03 (GMT)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: Richard Rogers
Subject: Wow Richard, way to come out,you have just raised
Message:
the bar for outing oneself slightly with the picture of yourself then and now included. This sets a whole new standard, I do remember seeing you around at many of the festivals and events.

It is good to see you again, and thank you for taking the step and coming forward in such a big way

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Date: Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 20:22:35 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Richard Rogers
Subject: Hi Richard
Message:
Hi Richard. From what I heard over the years from Joy, I never thought I would see the day you would show up here, but I can testify that Joy never gave up on you. You have a good friend in Joy. I guess we both do.

I have two questions:

1. What is that on Maharaji's forehead?

2. When did you get the Smartcard, and can't you just hear the Elan Vital computers entering information about you, as we speak?

Oh, I guess a third question:

3. Do you have any premie friends who will be surprised about this?

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Date: Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 20:52:33 (GMT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Hi Richard
Message:
Joe,
Does this mean Joy get's a free toaster from EPO?

1. What is that on Maharaji's forehead?
When M arrived at Guru Puja Montrose, some Indian Bai's (female mahatmas) sang arti and put a 'tilak' of flowers on his forhead and then on the rest of us nearby (or was it near Bai?). This is the first time I saw M in person.

2. When did you get the Smartcard, and can't you just hear the Elan Vital computers entering information about you, as we speak?
Well, I can kiss those frequent trinket buyer's airline miles goodby. I ordered it last March, I think and it arrived maybe two months ago. Efficient, eh?

3. Do you have any premie friends who will be surprised about this?
Yes, and that's probably the main reason I stayed under cover. I figure if they are lurking here, they are wondering about M anyway. And if the are my friends, they know I love them.


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Date: Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 23:23:44 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Hi Richard
Message:
Actually, I think Joy might be more interested in a rice steamer, or maybe additions to her Grateful Dead collection, but a toaster might be nice, too.

I wonder if you showed up at an Elan Vital 'event' and they ran your card through the scanner, if red flashing lights and buzzers would go off. It would be funny to see.

It's true what you say about friends. It's best to be honest with your friends, and then, if they really are your friends, you find out.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 02:47:58 (GMT)
From: Joy
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: I Think I Deserve the Toaster
Message:
for keeping quiet on this one. Despite Joe's curiosity as to who Postie was, I managed to keep my mouth shut and respect his wish for anonymity until he felt ready to 'come out', not easy since I've known Postie since 73 and Joe since 80. So, the shiny Cuisinart one, if you please, gentlemen.

Actually, I really liked referring to Richard as Postie, and Katie as Disculta, those are really cool names. Richard, perhaps now you can be Post-Postie, since you are now no longer Postie?

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 04:09:50 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Joy
Subject: I Think I Deserve the Toaster
Message:
Well, the toaster okay, but to tell the truth, I have known who Postie is for some time now, via email. But it IS funny. I thought he was Suzie Bai Whitten. I kid you not. Really, it's true.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 04:49:23 (GMT)
From: Postie
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: 'Green were the hills I just to roam...'
Message:
Now what made you think I was Suzie Bai, Joe. Were you using Bai-dar?

Postie

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Date: Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 20:33:45 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: M's forehead? Visitation from bird of paradise?(nt
Message:
splat
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Date: Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 20:07:56 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Richard Rogers
Subject: Postie runs naked through the streets
Message:
Hi!
I've been meaning to tell you, I loved that joke you made about
'I'll never forgive my parents for naming me Postie'
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Date: Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 19:57:41 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Richard Rogers
Subject: Welcome Post Toastie! n/t
Message:
not
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Date: Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 19:46:06 (GMT)
From: Thelma/Pat the Fat Fag
Email: None
To: Richard Rogers
Subject: Postie runs naked through the streets
Message:
Of course you're just bullshitting us because you're so ashammed the name Postie that your parents gave you.

Thanks, Richard, you are a good sport and you know that I have appreciated you posts and emails a lot. I needed you to do that so much because your voice is one of those whom I respect the most.

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Date: Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 21:09:05 (GMT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Postie runs naked through the streets
Message:
Yo Postie

Hi ......the photos were a nice touch .....maybe one day a part of the site will have a photo section.....I spose I'd put my handsome mugshot up for public review hahaha

Anyway ......welcome .....but that's not quite the right word as you have been here a while and contributed a lot of good stuff.....so ....hello again.

Dermot

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Date: Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 19:38:52 (GMT)
From: Michael Dettmers
Email: dettmers@gylanix.com
To: Richard Rogers
Subject: Congratulations old friend! (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 21:46:13 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Richard Rogers
Subject: God, you look so familiar I know I've seen that...
Message:
face before...

Good for you. It seems as if a lot of folks are giving themselves permission to not fear Maharaji.

One of his biggest ploys, that fear.

I want a smart card, just for fun, but I don't want to pay for it.

No welcome necessary, ditto what Selene said about your post about your parents naming you ''Postie.''

Love,
Cynthia

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 02:26:13 (GMT)
From: Richard
Email: post@rmi.net
To: Cynthia
Subject: God, you look so familiar I know I've seen that...
Message:
Well I did get knocked unconcious at a DECA holi gun test once - I was the guy with a blue face and cracked tooth. I heard someone else had there eye blown out so I didn't feel so bad.

Actually, I was in Miami from 79 - 89 and got rare 'opportunities' to work with toxic chemicals at Deca so perhaps that's why I seem familiar. I know at least one of your good friends from that era. Email me.

Richard

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Date: Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 23:56:06 (GMT)
From: michael donner
Email: None
To: richard (postie)
Subject: my hat...
Message:
hey richard, as you probably cannot see, my hat is off to ya! India, denver, what a long strange trip its been. i have fond memories of some wonderful people like yourself and so many other good hearted folks gathered together in hope of learning more about ourselves and doing some good in a world that seemed to need some good.

small problem in that picture...following a blind fellow into a snowstorm. but here we are, still hungry to learn and grow and do some good in the world. even the con artists can't keep us down.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 00:59:39 (GMT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: michael donner
Subject: my hat...
Message:
Thanks for that Michael. It means a lot that we don't forget the passion and purpose we brought forth and laid at M's feet. We gave him the mandate to 'save the world' and he invested instead.

Speaking of hats. I have this vivid image of you dressed as a cardinal (red outfit) with a tall mitre (pope hat) at some party or other in Denver. If I find a Divine Times pix of that I'll post it.

Richard

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Date: Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 18:17:54 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Sometimes it isn't so shocking or unique
Message:
Some of the stuff that happens in the Guru business is not so shocking or unique. To be fair, since I really like the Dalai Lama and think he has a lot of good to offer to the world, I will still say that those with the most money get the best seats. They even get a separate entrance to the facilities. If I were Richard Gere, for example, I would be getting personal audiences. The text below this rant is from the website on the heart of wisdom teachings in May at the Shorline Amphitheater, under the sponsorship link:
http://www.medicinebuddha.org/hhdlsponsor.html

The caveat and difference here, of course, is that the Dalai Lama's people are being right up front about it, and telling you what you are getting for your money, and are soliciting it openly, and at a separate link from the regular registration. The tickets for everyone else are not exhorbitant in light of attending an event at the Shoreline. I'm quite sure they do not actually cover the costs of admissions. The 3-day heart of wisdom teachings, for example, are $50 per day for two sessions (morning and afternoon 10-2 and 2-4). Try going to an all-day concert at the Shoreline for less. Or try going to most corporate trainings or seminars. Amaroo, for about the same amount of time, is over $400, as opposed to $150.

What I'm getting around to here is that some of the stuff that we resent(ed) about EV and DLM, however, is present in any organization that depends upon money to keep going. For purposes of the value of this site it is important that we/I remember to make a big deal about the real issues: the control tactics; abuse of trust; instilling fear; destroying fragile psyches in the name of making a student 'humble and open'; proclaiming to be what one is not; worse yet -- insinuating it without saying it, in such a manner as it almost becomes subliminal manipulation; hiding the truth and manipulating people; and on and on. In other words, what makes this different from any other large church corporation.

Peace to you,

Francesca
----------------------------------
The Heart of Wisdom Teachings - May 2001

Sponsorship Opportunities
You can become a Jewel Sponsor for the Heart of Wisdom Teachings in any of the following three categories: Lapis Lazuli, Amethyst, and Rose Quartz.

Lapis Lazuli Jewel Sponsorship
Lapis Lazuli Sponsors are generous people who are able to support the Teachings by making a donation of not less than five thousand dollars ($5000 US). In return for their kind support they will be honored in the following ways. They will each receive three tickets for seating in the foremost rows of the Heart of Wisdom Teachings where special seating will be provided exclusively for Lapis Lazuli Sponsors. They will be the first group listed and acknowledged in the Heart of Wisdom brochure (a maximum of three names per sponsor). They will receive a copy of Ethics for the New Millennium by His Holiness the Dalai Lama. Additionally, they will receive three invitations to the Jewel Sponsors Reception, hosted by Lama Zopa Rinpoche, which will take place in San Jose and to which other Lamas, dignitaries, and visitors will be invited. Three people of their choice will be mentioned by name at the special Sponsor's Thanksgiving Puja (the extensive Medicine Buddha ritual) to be performed at Sera Me Monastery in India. Lapis Lazuli sponsors also receive a beautiful Medicine Buddha statue and a copy of The Heart Sutra autographed by Lama Zopa Rinpoche. The names of three people of their choice will be inscribed at the Land of Medicine Buddha Sponsor's Prayer Wheel. And, finally, they will receive three specially imported Lapis Lazuli malas blessed by His Holiness the Dalai Lama.

Amethyst Jewel Sponsorship
Amethyst Sponsors are generous people who are able to donate three thousand five hundred dollars ($3500 US) to support the Teachings. In return for their generous support they will receive two tickets to the Heart of Wisdom Teachings seated directly behind the Lapis Lazuli Sponsors. They will be the second group to be acknowledged in the Heart of Wisdom brochure (a maximum or two names per sponsor) and they will receive two tickets to the Jewel Sponsors Reception. Two names of their choice will be read out at the Sponsors Thanksgiving Puja in Sera Me monastery. They may choose two names to be inscribed at the Land Of Medicine Buddha Sponsors Prayer Wheel. They will receive a beautiful Medicine Buddha statue. And, finally, they will receive two specially imported Amethyst malas blessed by His Holiness the Dalai Lama.

Rose Quartz Jewel Sponsorship
Rose Quartz Sponsors are generous people who are able to donate two thousand dollars ($2000 US) to support the Teachings. In acknowledgement of their special support they will receive one ticket to the Teachings to be seated behind the Amethyst Sponsors. They will be the third group to be acknowledged in the Heart of Wisdom brochure (a maximum of one name per sponsor) and they will receive one ticket to the Jewel Sponsors' Reception. One name of their choice will be read out at the Sponsors Thanksgiving Puja in Sera Me Monastery and two names of their choice will be inscribed at the Land of Medicine Buddha Sponsors Prayer Wheel. And, finally, they will receive a specially imported Rose Quartz mala blessed by His Holiness the Dalai Lama.

Please note that Jewel Sponsors will have access to the teachings through a special entrance. Information about this will be provided later.

Land of Medicine Buddha is a 501(c)3 tax exempt organization.
A portion of your sponsorship will be tax deductible.

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Date: Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 19:29:21 (GMT)
From: Katie Darling
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: Exactly
Message:
This paragraph should be on the front page of EPO:

'the control tactics; abuse of trust; instilling fear; destroying fragile psyches in the name of making a student 'humble and open'; proclaiming to be what one is not; worse yet -- insinuating it without saying it, in such a manner as it almost becomes subliminal manipulation; hiding the truth and manipulating people; and on and on. '

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 02:02:11 (GMT)
From: Mercedes
Email: None
To: Katie Darling
Subject: I agree!!!! (nt)
Message:
jj
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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 20:34:18 (GMT)
From: Ricahrd
Email: None
To: Mercedes
Subject: I agree also plus this point
Message:
When I quote the Dalai Lama, I'm assuming that many (not all) people respect his teachings and I'm attempting to draw comparisons for the benefit of the fencesitters. Many current PWK's sort of excuse M's behavior by putting him above scrutiny. Many defend M's behavior by comparing him to the Pope or HHDL or even Jesus. This is not EV party line but many PWK's do that. 'Oh, even Jesus got drunk and hung out with a prostitute.' 'Oh, the Pope lives a lavish lifestyle.' Whatever.

But I'm saying, IF you are using the DL as a comparison, then look at the DL's humility, compassion and wisdom and see how that compares to M.

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Date: Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 17:15:25 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Elan Vital's Daily Prayer
Message:
Don't know if everyone knows that you can get daily email pellets from the Hamster himself just by subscribing to something or other.

Here it is ....

http://www.evnewsletter.org/

Today's EDITED missive was this:

Simple is the message

Edited excerpt, Maharaji in London, 13th June 1998

There's something different here, and why is it different? Because it's so familiar! And when the familiar seems different, it means you have been away from home too long. So, welcome home. Welcome to this beautiful world of Knowledge, this beautiful world of understanding. After all, this is all about joy, not pain. This is about heaven, not hell. And not a heaven that comes after death, this is about the heaven that you can feel whilst you are alive. Simple is the message. It has always been. It is the living who can feel heaven.

This is so clear. And why is it clear? Because it's so not ....

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Date: Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 19:49:36 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Maharaji has got a job at Hallmark
Message:
if the guru business fails.
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Date: Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 21:55:18 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: I have an Aunt who's retire from Hallmark...
Message:
I'd be happy to ask her to give him a good Word!
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Date: Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 17:09:11 (GMT)
From: Disculta
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: About anonymity
Message:
Just want to say that anonymity is an important principle in recovery sometimes, and needs to be respected. Pressuring people to 'come out' is a bit cult-like. I've been feeling a wave of peer-pressure about this recently.

I used to post under my real name here, but experienced that there was an atmosphere of verbal abuse, domination, and verbal bullying, that felt like the least healthy place to be. I went away for quite a while (this was years ago I think) and came back as Lurkex, and before long experienced quite hurtful reactions to my viewpoints which diverged by a degree or two (or 200) from the then-party line on the Forum. I felt quite unsafe and noticed that it didn't feel healthy for my body to be in an attack zone. One of the clinical indicators of verbal abuse is when a person complains that what was said hurt, and the person saying it discounts their feelings, by saying it was 'a joke' or the classic: 'You are being too sensitive.' There was a recent study of women who had been in VERBALLY abusive marriages that showed they had the same health problems as those who were in physically abusive marriages (except that they didn't have bruises or death from being beat up, but the main health problems were various markers of stress hormones, heart problems, and other systemic breakdowns). I developed severe health problems while a premie, and can trace quite a bit of it to the verbal abuse I received from MJ, as he manipulated me to conform. So I'm very careful to protect myself, and anonymity seemed to be one of the ways.

So, Lurkex left for a few months and came back as Disculta. I also joined the Recent Exes forum which has very clear agreements about no flaming, and have enjoyed the safety of posting there immensely. One of the things that I have noticed is that vulnerability seems to be the shadow side of power, and that expressions of vulnerability can make us uncomfortable when we have huge power and control issues, which many of us probably do, having been under the thumb of a control freak for so long. It's a lot of fun to take up a position, assume an identity, and all that, but a lot of the unravelling from the cult seems to take place in a murkier zone, where things aren't so black and white, and it's good to have the space to not posture -- to express what one is going through in order to be mirrored and validated in one's right to express what one is going through, without it becoming the subject of debate or attack. If it's about Mj, then it seems perfectly reasonable to debate it, but when it is about one's own uncertainty, or about the uncertain process of exiting, it is incredibly unhelpful to jump in and opinionate. When we were premies, we were always on the look-out for someone who was a bit 'in their mind' or maybe a bit out of the straight and narrow of what we considered to be the right path for a devotee. I think one of the main methods of recovery is for us to practice allowing each other a lot of space to have diverging opinions and experiences and actually make an effort to change the knee-jerk habit of jumping on each other. The Dalai Lama said that the only religion is kindness, and that religion was amazingly missing in our cult (maybe it wasn't a religion after all!).

These days, I love this Forum. There are all these fabulous new people who are quite diverse and accepting and supportive and loving and funny. I feel a lot safer here than I ever have. But I still want to remain anonymous.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 23:18:30 (GMT)
From: such
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: AnOmenKnitty:weaveKindnessToleranceHealthSafety(nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 09:12:27 (GMT)
From: sivan
Email: siva28@yahoo.com
To: all
Subject: an anon good point
Message:
I don't like it when premie stayers come here and read the outpourings of 'the heart' and then use it against one as back-up blaah about m- and even to insult/put shit on people they recognise from here.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 09:11:17 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: Not a problem
Message:
If you want to be anonymous so be it!
I can relate to alot of what you said. No the forum is not a particularily 'gentle' place. However, you have to remember it is essentially a chat room and it is cyber space. There are certain risks whenever you make yourself vunerable in any setting such as this.
I think you need to grow a thicker skin or at least not allow yourself to become hurt by some of the abuse that does occur here. Some of the participants here do know each other quite well in and out of the forum; there're friends. There are alot of strangers here as well. They don't necessarily have to be accountable for what they say to you. For instance, if I told you to 'fuck off' that might really hurt your feelings or if I told you how stupid you were that indeed might sting. And just exactly what recourse would you have towards me if I did that? Not much.
I still maintain that this form of non verbal communication can be tricky at best. There are no visual cues, no body language, no facial expressions, no voice inflections zip! And to confound the situation the conversations (if you want to call them that) don't even take place in real time! There's lots of room for error even in the best intentioned posts. Lots of room for misunderstandings.
I think you are a very sensitive and caring person and have alot to offer from what I see of your posts. I also think that you need to be careful you don't get burned.

Take care
Tonette

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 02:34:35 (GMT)
From: Tony Walker
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: About anonymity
Message:
G'day Disculta,
I enjoyed reading your post.you are a very sensitive person.You were very honest.I think it is great on this forum that we can do whatever we like.I decided to come out because it suits me right now to do so.That was my decision alone and it just so happens to coincide with some others exing as well.

You do what YOU want to do and enjoy the freedom in that.

Cheers Tony.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 02:40:15 (GMT)
From: Katie Darling
Email: None
To: Tony Walker
Subject: About anonymity
Message:
Hi Tony, you old Aussi.

If you read the thread below, you'll see that my above Disculta post was just the beginning of my 'coming out' process, but it got - ahem - interrupted.

love Katie Darling/ Disculta

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 17:14:07 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Katie Darling
Subject: Hey, Katie Darling
Message:
I *finally* got to the bottom of the thread and got to read your dialogue with Disculta - very funny! Welcome back...

Love from that other Katie

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 05:25:25 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Katie Darling
Subject: No woman should quote dali lama or buddha!
Message:
The so called buddha caused women more harm than any other single man in history.

The 'only religion is kindness' comment by the so called dali lama is a front which covers a hell of a cult.

No need to leave one false lord of the universe to qoute another!

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 05:30:09 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: Bill, why should womyn not quote the buddha?
Message:
I kind of have a soft spot for buddhism but am willing to have another illusion blown.
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Date: Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 05:20:15 (GMT)
From: bill--hi Pat, give me a
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: few days to get home to my papers onthe subject.nt
Message:
sfgs
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Date: Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 05:00:41 (GMT)
From: bill-Hi Pat, let me
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: answer that in one week when I get to my papers.
Message:
fsgh
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Date: Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 06:39:22 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: bill-Hi Pat, let me
Subject: Hi bill, promise? NT
Message:
g
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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 09:15:58 (GMT)
From: Sivan/Sam
Email: siva28@yahoo.com
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: no menstrating in temples-enough?NT
Message:
no place for women, obviously!
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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 09:26:23 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Sivan/Sam
Subject: no menstrating in temples-enough? No.
Message:
I gather that the buddha was a sexist typical of his day and age as Jefferson was a slave-owner in his albeit one who allegedly had an ongoing affair with one of them.

Their cultural biases do not preclude the fact that both also were wise in their own ways.

As for menstruating in temples - well, I don't believe in temples and I didn't think the buddha did either.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 02:56:07 (GMT)
From: Tony Walker
Email: None
To: Katie Darling
Subject: About anonymity
Message:
G'day Katie,
I did'nt read the whole thing.Jesus what is going on.It feels like we're riding on the crest of a huge wave.There is just so many people posting all of a sudden.It must have something to do with all this obvious push for money and Amaroo etc.Anyway I am glad to be here and witnessing it

Cheers Katie
Tony.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 02:56:02 (GMT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Katie Darling
Subject: About anonymity
Message:
I laughed my silly face off reading your 2 selves talk with each other. Glad you 'got it all together'.

Re: Spiritual validity, etc. What we don't need is to feel ashamed of what we think or feel. Your 'Emotional Inventory' that you posted far below speaks volumes about being a whole person. Whatever it takes. Spiritual, mental, physical, emotional.

Richard

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 01:19:28 (GMT)
From: Charlie
Email: charlie@demont.co.uk
To: Disculta
Subject: About anonymity
Message:
Dear Disculta,

do you know that today was the most 'HIT' that forum has ever been! There are more people reading posts here than ever before!!!

The grand total of posts read for the 13th of March was 10668.

So what am I trying to say now...

Pay no attention to Jim or whoever it is that upsets you, this thing is running away by itself now and you are still part of it. Be happy that the guru squad is winding up and walk tall into the freedom of tomorrow.

You will feel better to post under your own name because Disculta is just so awkward to say or even think about.

Best wishes... Charlie

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 01:23:57 (GMT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Charlie
Subject: 10668 hits in one day? - Wow!
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 18:10:23 (GMT)
From: jjanet
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: how do i get to the recent ex's forum?..mt
Message:
???the url?
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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 00:11:42 (GMT)
From: recentexes forum FA
Email: None
To: jjanet
Subject: how do i get to the recent ex's forum?..mt
Message:
Hi Janet
You can contact recentexes at recentexes@yahoo.com

FA, recent exes

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Date: Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 17:25:50 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: More bullying, I guess
Message:
I think one of the main methods of recovery is for us to practice allowing each other a lot of space to have diverging opinions and experiences and actually make an effort to change the knee-jerk habit of jumping on each other.

Code for 'don't debate, don't argue, don't express yourself freely, don't ridicule, just don't don't'? Or, if you MUST, just a little and wait at least half an hour after eating?

The Dalai Lama said that the only religion is kindness, and that religion was amazingly missing in our cult (maybe it wasn't a religion after all!).

Who the fuck cares about the Dalai Lama anyway? I happen to be the hundredth incarnation of a wise old atheist who had his number eons ago. The guy's a fake. It was his brother who had the secret, magic sauce in that family.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 04:42:48 (GMT)
From: such
Email: None
To: Jim et al
Subject: just change dialogue to mutual respect,civility(nt
Message:
LOL...
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Date: Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 20:33:01 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: no code. just everyone speak for themselves:
Message:
jim, in recovery, each person who arrives at the table puts in only what they wish and takes away only what they need. in recovery, there is a golden rule that the only person's inventory you take is your own. you speak of what's going on with you, what you are realizing about yourself. the statements are all 'I' statements, framed to be responsible about ones own reactions. statements phrased in the second person, 'You such and such' are left outside the room and if working the program in life earnest, left alone completely in recognition of the sacredness of the other person's sovereignty. the original working model for all recovery groups was Alcoholics Anonymous.

the so called 12 steps were not handed down from on high, but emerged over time, by painful experience when people who each had a life threatening habit, to something they could no longer dare resort to, chose to speak of their addiction to others who had been just as badly there. it was painfully honest but far safer to speak about the craving to do it, than to go take that drink--or that drug--or that sex--or that bet--or that food...etc.

discussion isnt forbidden!! far from it!! but the statements made are framed from the 'i see it as' standpoint.

lets take a sports analogy, ok?
hockey and football are contact sports. its okay to use force to smash into the other team and hurt them in trying to score. basketball and soccer are non contact sports, where the ball is the thing you touch, not the other players, in your efforts to score points. and if you do hurt or use contact force on another player, you cost yourself and the team hard earned points, possibly even losing your right to play in the game.

in contact sports, armor is issued to all players.
in non contact--or contact- forbidden sports--there is no armor. you play unprotected.
here, we are trying to find personal ways of removing the years of armor that cult life programmed us to embrace, or hide behind, or cling to.

there is no sport in the world where going after the other player's armor and tearing it off by force is the objective, or allowed.

that action is only permitted in war. and war results in death, dismemberment and devastation.

we are not trying to kill premies in here, Jim. every one of us here is a premie learning not to be one anymore. we are here to figure out how to take off the years of armor we were told we needed to wear.
as premies, we were told we were at war with our minds. we were told that mind would try to kill us so we had to kill it.

we are not at war in here. attacking the other players with force, to remove their armor, is not the objective. in fact, that was the precise, though subtle objective satsang was used for to strip newcomers to 'prepare them for knowledge'.

in freeing ourselves from our cult programming, it is vital to be aware of when we may be re enacting the same methods we used on each other in the cult.

it is not all in the argument, jim. some of it is in the style. we have identified some of the ways in which maharaji attacks/negates/belittles/ridicules our views. in regaining our clarity of perception back, regarding what he does, do you not think that we will then be able to turn around and be able to identify it when another is employing it upon us??

if it is wrong when he does it to us, is it not wrong when anyone else does uses it upon us, as well ??
it is an offense, a boundary violation, offsides, personal foul, time out, penalty exacted. we may opt to exclude the player, or ourselves, from the game.

are we still at war with The Mind, here?
and if we are, are we still playing by maharaji's rules?
and if we are, are the premies the enemy?
If the Mind is the enemy, do we fight it by ridicule, fear, shame, guilt, discount, abuse and attack?
Or by revelation, introspection, realization, information, reflection, awareness and empowerment?

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 02:22:12 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Funny, I thought we WERE trying to kill premies
Message:
Janet,

The first part of your post describes the 'recovery' process in the 'recovery' jargon. I've heard it before, nothing particularly new there. But who said this is a twelve-step program anyway? I'm not in any twelve-step nothing. Are you? If you are, this isn't it, so why talk about it? I'm completely comfortable making 'I' statements, 'you' statements and 'he' or 'she' statements as I see fit. Hell, if I've had a few I might even make the odd 'we' or even 'they' statement. And why not if it's after work and you're not driving. Sorry, I mean I'm not driving.

No, the twelve-step stuff is irrelevant, I think.

As for whether or not we're 'at war' or 'trying to kill premies', Janet! What do you expect me to say to that? Is that where you think this issue lies? Either one agrees with Katie Darling or else one's a premie killer? Please!

Finally, you suggest that it's wrong to do something, like use ridicule or sarcasm, that kind of thing, because that was one of the ways Maharaji abused us. Faulty reasoning, I'd suggest. The problem with how Maharaji abused us verbally was all situational. It wasn't his yelling, evasion, lies, sarcasm or long, meandering bullshit that abused us so much as those things in the hands of our Lord and Master. That was the problem. Really, every last word Maharaji said to us under the guise of divine guidance was abusive. But it was the context that made it so, not the actual verbal devices, etc. For example, Maharaji abused us with bad jokes (once in a while, I admit, some were not as bad as others). Does that mean we shouldn't tell bad jokes to each other? No.

So likewise, Maharaji was often sarcastic. Fine. Lots of people are. Big deal. It was the context that made his sarcasm so bad. Here we were trusting him with our hearts and minds and he was just toying with us. We'd ask serious, real questions and he'd blow them off and tease us for asking. Again, the teasing wasn't the problem, it was teasing in that particular context.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 09:34:20 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Jim didn't mean that. He meant ''Pill cremies''
Message:
That is to make ice-cream in pill form for those with delicate digestive systems.

Have you got a martyr complex, Jim? I'll use emotikons if you do.

Satire is thus denoted: @#$%

Lobotomy thus: ^&*

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Date: Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 20:20:10 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Absurd, Jim
Message:
Disculta says: 'I think one of the main methods of recovery is for us to practice allowing each other a lot of space to have diverging opinions'

Absurd isn't it?

Why can't everyone agree with you?

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 02:30:14 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Absurd, Chris
Message:
What the hell you talking about? Where did I say I wanted everyone to agree with me? I didn't. You're just making shit up as usual.

What I don't like is this idea that it's somehow a good thing to 'practice' 'allowing' each other 'a lot of space to have divergent opinions'. Any way you look at it, it's code for 'don't discuss too much or, if you must, please don't argue and, by all means, please don't ever argue vigorously'. That's what it means to me but if you've got another interpretation -- one that doesn't just vaguely paraphrase the original statement -- please let me know. Maybe I'm missing something but that's how I read it.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 19:20:00 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Absurd - 'Out of harmony with reason' (OED) ...
Message:
What the hell am I talking about? Well, it's quite simple really. What you read into Katie's quote and what I read into it are diametrically opposite.

Diverging opinions and discussion about those diverging opinions is good, in my book.

Your post seemed to diss the concept of allowing others to have diverging opinions and experiences. At least, that's how it came over to me. Hence the 'absurd' jibe. (BTW, have you noticed how, when you use sarcasm, you think it's a shaft of wit, and when I do, it's just a waft of shit?)

As the old saying goes 'Ideas are much like children--your own are wonderful'

.
.
.

Anyway, to clarify -

We all have the right to challenge each other's opinions and beliefs. No one's beliefs and opinions are exempt from that principle. Not yours, not mine, not anyone's.

In recovery however, (and that's how I'd describe many premies who are in the process of exiting the cult) the ones doing the recovering are in the process of re-evaluating - and in a major way. They are opening themselves to looking at the issues from a totally different standpoint. To go back to the old ways of thinking would only hinder the whole recovery process.

That's what I understood from, or should I say 'read into' Katie's post. I guess the issue can be seen from many angles. Your's seems valid to you, as mine does to me. End of story?

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Date: Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 17:17:35 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: Allow me to bully you a bit
Message:
One of the clinical indicators of verbal abuse is when a person complains that what was said hurt, and the person saying it discounts their feelings, by saying it was 'a joke' or the classic: 'You are being too sensitive.'

I think that's patently ridiculous. Honestly, I do.

Okay, am I bullying you?

Absurd!

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Date: Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 20:28:14 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Allow me to bully you a bit
Message:
'when a person complains that what was said hurt ...'

of course, it's absurd to think it actually DID hurt.

Patently ridiculous.

Of course.

.
.
.
.

(ahem - afterthought - er, WHY Jim?)

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 02:38:17 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Allow me to bully you a bit
Message:
Again, whoever said that? You want to know what hurts, Chris? THIS hurts. I neve said that people can't and don't hurt each other this way or that when they talk. I guess what I'm not interested in is the false protection from the regular give and take of daily life that therapists often offer. I mean, it's fine in therapy if that's what you want. But this isn't therapy and I don't see how any of that shit is the least bit relevant here. Katie D's a therapist. She was projecting some of her therapist models onto the forum. I was taking issue with that. That's the program.

Now, do you have anything to say to THAT?

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 21:31:33 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: YOU said it, Jim. READ YOUR OWN WORDS
Message:
'One of the clinical indicators of verbal abuse is when a person complains that what was said hurt, and the person saying it discounts their feelings, by saying it was 'a joke' or the classic: 'You are being too sensitive.''

To which you replied: 'I think that's patently ridiculous. Honestly, I do.'

Now you claim that you 'neve(r) said that people can't and don't hurt each other this way'

So why did you say it was 'patently ridiculous'?

Please DO clarify - is it the possibility of being hurt that's ridiculous? Or the 'you're being too sensitive'/'it was a joke' riposte?

Look brother, all we have to go on (those of us who still read your posts, that is) are your words. Either you say what you mean or lose us. And what you've been saying recently has been decidedly unsound. An example you want? Try this:

'But this isn't therapy and I don't see how any of that shit is the least bit relevant here.'

So what are we to take from that? That all therapy is shit?

Certainly sounds like you're saying that.
.
.
.
In which case, is can only be evident that

(a) you've had no experience of therapy yourself, or

(b) you have had experience of therapy, but unfortunately it was at the hands of a practitioner who left you with a bad impression of it, and consequently you tar all therapists with the same brush.

Or even (dare I suggest it?) that

(c) therapy is, to you, just another of those 'new age' bullshit cons. In which case, I would suggest that you investigate the meaning of the word.

I won't disagree that a LOT of the 'new age' ethos attracts a LOT of bad science and questionable practioners. But not all of it. And since when was 'therapy' the province only of the new-agers?

.
.
.
And finally, if you now recognise that taking the piss out of others CAN hurt them, will you continue to do the same?

Why shouldn't you?


'don't you get sensitive on me, 'cos I know you're just too proud'
Joni Mitchell, The Boho Dance.


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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 23:32:36 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: YOU said it, Jim. READ YOUR OWN WORDS
Message:
Chris,

Invariably you attack me and invariably your logic is off. I don't mind a little argument but could you sharpen your knives a bit please?

I said that:

'One of the clinical indicators of verbal abuse is when a person complains that what was said hurt, and the person saying it discounts their feelings, by saying it was 'a joke' or the classic: 'You are being too sensitive.''

is 'patently ridiculous' not because I think that people can never hurt others in jest but rather that a person defending a statement as being meant in jest is a 'clinical indicator of verbal abuse'. Really, how stupid! There are many, many things that can and do happen when people talk with one another. Throw a little humour in the mix and all sorts of shit can happen. Often, jokes just aren't appreciated for whatever reason. The joker didn't get it right, guaged his audience wrong, the audience missed the point, was in a particularly non-joke-friendly mood. All sorts of stuff. Jokes can and do go bad for lots of reasons.

The idiotic quote above suggests that any time a joker tries to clear up some misunderstood joke he or she is likely covering for some dark instance of 'verbal abuse'. Forget about all the millions of less sinister ways people misunderstand each other, it's got to be 'verbal abuse'. Hey, it's 'clinical', isn't it?

Adn then God forbid ever telling someone that they're being too sensitive! Why, that's proof right there of the 'verbal abuse', isn't it? Again, it's 'clinical', no?

Sorry, Chris, I don't know how many ways to say that I have absolutely zero respect for that kind of thinking. It's so contraruy to the world I know, a world where people really do joke with each other and mean no harm even if feeling sometimes get hurt. A world where people really can be too sensitive. Hey, can you imagine that?

You really need to read things more carefully if you get me saying that 'all therapy is shit' from what I wrote. I mean, really Chris, you can read better than that, can't you?

As for Joni Mitchell, my favorite was the blue album.

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Date: Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 20:12:12 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: oh REAAALLLY Jim?
Message:
So when I said I was joking to you, according to what you just posted, it should have been okee dokee with you.
Oh but yeah, I forgot the judge jury and lawyer all in one decided I was LYING.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 02:34:21 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Yes, REAAALLLY Selene
Message:
What's with you anyway? You jump up and down about how you don't want to talk about that dispute, you don't want to get dragged into defending yourself, you've already had enough of that, blah, blah, blah -- and so we stop. And look at you! You can't help but bring it up all over again.

Okay, if you must, I'll answer. Just because someone calls something a joke doesn't make it one. And even when something IS a joke doesn't mean it's only a joke. In your case, I think that what you said WAS a joke. But it was also a joke based on a factual assumption that you weren't kidding about (namely, that I was getting Barry to post here for some sort of self-aggrandizement).

But what's the point? You didn't want to deal with it then so why should now be any different?

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 03:20:58 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: GREAT POINT! thanks
Message:
OK
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Date: Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 20:06:07 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Jim, I am shocked, surprised and astrounded
Message:
that you would say something like that. So unlike you. And using 'honestly' and everything to convey your sincereity about it. That adds a lot too.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 02:39:24 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: How about 'dismayed' or 'hurt', Joe?
Message:
Honestly?
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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 19:36:30 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: No, I could detect neither dismay or hurt
Message:
in my reactions. Thanks for asking, though.
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Date: Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 19:11:32 (GMT)
From: Joy
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Allow me to bully you a bit
Message:
Jim,

According to Patricia Evans, the psychologist who wrote THE definitive book on verbal abuse in relationships (The Verbally Abusive Relationship), verbal abuse disguised as a joke is one of 15 categories of verbal abuse perpetrated on people (usually women) in intimate relationships. Discounting is another one. Usually perpetrated by a man who has to remain 'in control' for his self-esteem. Your sensitivity to even the idea of verbal abuse shouts 'DENIAL' big time to me.

Your attack on Katie, while maybe done in jest, reminds me of those big birds who wait on the beach for the baby turtles to emerge from their eggs and then eat them as they're breaking out (I saw this on a nature show).

Don't worry Katie/Disculta, you will have me and Thelma to protect you from any and all verbal abuse on Forum V! We all suffered enough of it at the hands of M, who needs more here?

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 02:48:39 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Joy
Subject: Oh my God! Not THE Patricia Evans????
Message:
Joy,

I'm sorry, I had no idea that I was violating one of the fundamental discoveries of the late 20th century.

Here, I looked at a page of her stuff:

Thus Spake Patricia Evans

and I think she's a total idiot. Want to talk about it? She seems like one of this weird feminist hot-house flower types that advocates women circling their wagons and carefully, meticulously leaving no room for anything but unqualified, soothing 'support' to pierce the shield. Fortunately for all of us, life doesn't work like that.

Hm, I take that back. I understand that life is pretty protected in a preemie (not premie) ward.

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Date: Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 19:56:16 (GMT)
From: Bobby
Email: None
To: Joy
Subject: verbal abuse and ridicule
Message:
verbal abuse disguised as a joke

ridicule n. Words or actions intended to evoke contemptuous laughter at or feelings toward a person or thing.

I have a really hard time seeing ridicule perpetrated to anyone on this forum or anywhere else as I have seen the very real negative effects in people's lives, my own included. People suffer a lot from ridicule / verbal abuse. It's really not funny.

I love to laugh, laugh deeply, and lighten up but there's some kind of line somewhere between play and real abuse. I guess this line is different for different people but I think it's important to act with kindness or at least some consideration of the value of others.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 02:52:31 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Bobby
Subject: Ridicule here is like industrial strength soap
Message:
If we can't discuss the Greatest Incarnation of God to Ever trod the Planet with liberal dollops of ridicule to wash that shit off, from ourselves and each other, then we're hooped. Mind you, you're a bit more 'inclusive' than that. I understand, Bobby, but I'm sure glad I don't think that way.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 04:50:06 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Ridicule here is like industrial strength soap
Message:
Perfect Jim, industrial strength soap! Just a little to harsh for normal dirt, eh? It surely is nice to see so many of the most recent exes displaying normal human kindness to get rid of the dirt instead of scrubbing it off and losing half the skin with the dirt!
I love seeing the way they know how it is now and can relate to each other with currnet information, patience and kindness. There are many ways to accomplish a single task.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 23:43:13 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Ridicule here is like industrial strength soap
Message:
HERE HERE Robyn!
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Date: Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 17:10:17 (GMT)
From: Katie Darling
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: About anonymity
Message:
Yes, Disculta darling, but that was then, as you said, and this is now. There are dozens of new, mature people on the Forum. It's much safer here now.
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Date: Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 17:11:24 (GMT)
From: Disculta
Email: None
To: Katie Darling
Subject: That was zen, this was tao
Message:
Now shmow

Don't give me all that! You're trying to pressure me. In fact, you have gotten right INSIDE me. I can feel you pressuring me from within inside!

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Date: Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 17:12:34 (GMT)
From: Katie Darling
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: That was zen, this was tao
Message:
That's because I am inside you, Disculta darling. You and I are one, and I think it's time we came out. We can always leave if you don't feel safe. There are other realities in the world besides F5.
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Date: Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 17:13:24 (GMT)
From: Disculta
Email: None
To: Katie Darling
Subject: Hey, you outed me!
Message:
And how do I know there are other realities in the world besides F5? This is the only place where Disculta exists!
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Date: Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 17:15:34 (GMT)
From: Katie Darling
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: Don't worry darling
Message:
We are among friends.

Hi everybody. This is Katie Darling (formerly Jones/Baier/Masters/Lurkex/Disculta). My journey is on the journeys page (although I haven't read it for years).

I feel kind of.... integrated!

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Date: Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 18:13:30 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Katie Darling
Subject: Don't worry sweetie dahling, Thelma is here
Message:
I just logged on and found this. I was wondering when, if and how you were going to do this as I saw it coming. You really it absolutely fabulously , dahling. You will now feel 300 times better and grow stronger everyday and overcome any physical weakness you may have - I know.

Also just call me if anybody starts bullying you. Us sissy fags have been bullied since the day we were born and we also have learned how to fight back when necessary. Just taps your heels together three times and Thelma the Thunderstealing Witch will be there for you.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 00:14:22 (GMT)
From: michael donner
Email: None
To: katie darling
Subject: respecting the expressions of our feelings
Message:
hi sister, way to go. i couldn't agree with you more about the indicators of bullying. we just did a year long program at my daughters waldorf school and surely the best person to know if they are FEELING bullied is the one having those feeling. and to join each other, at least as a starting place, would be to honor the expression of those feelings and to encourage the expression of what we are feeling. only then can we more to a higher understanding from a place within ourselves.

i remember when i was in prison and two guys tried to rape me. i felt like a object of their sexual gratification. they did not agree with my assesment of my own experience but it did not change how i felt. if they were to have been able to slow down and join me in my feelings for a moment something profound might have happened for us all. for them however,it was a joke as they could not begin to see themselves as i saw them. hence, no meeting of our personhood, rather shouting across the void (well, in that case more then that, but...this was 69-70 anti war times by the way).

i see in myself the desire too often to be right, to become defensive and argumentative rather then listen to some feelings being expressed and taking th time to join the other (often my wife/partner) in exploring those expressed feelings together. when i do that we become more intimate and see each other with more compassion (true love).

imagine if m had understood to respect our feelings and help us explore them some. well, of course not as he had/has too much at stake holding on to being a bully really.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 00:32:33 (GMT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: michael donner
Subject: Michael - right on and well said (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 18:17:38 (GMT)
From: Thelma
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: That's Bitch NOT Witch, you fruit!
Message:
I hope you keep Disculta as your satirical alter-ego. We were all trained for many years to have myltiple personalities: me, my mind and my ''heart'' so maybe you can be Edina, your mind can be Saffron (always nagging but nevertheless sensible) and Disculta can be drunken Patsy.

I'm just so happy, Katie that you said no to all fear. The truth will set us free.

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Date: Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 17:39:54 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Katie Darling
Subject: To: Katie Darling.....
Message:
Integration is gooooood....

Take it from an expert!

Love,
Cynthia

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Date: Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 19:27:13 (GMT)
From: Katie Darling
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: He he he he... brilliant
Message:
Janet, to get to the recent exes forum, you e-mail recentexes@yahoo.com

Thelma darling, Disculta wonders if you are a lesbian?

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 00:19:52 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Katie Darling
Subject: He he he he... brilliant
Message:
Hey Katie
I think you're brilliant too. And I agree with you 100% about bullying. There's no need for it. People can butt heads without being buttheads. People can debate ideas, disagree, etc without calling one another names.
The forum seems alot 'safer' lately for folks to have fun, be themselves AND talk about issues important to them, primarily leaving behind cult-think.
Love to ya,
Helen, happy to be in her mind
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Date: Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 19:42:02 (GMT)
From: Thelma
Email: None
To: Katie Darling
Subject: Katie outing me as a lesbian is very cruel
Message:
Only my closest friends know that. Us African-American dykes are at the bottom of the heap. All trodden upon and villified as uppity womyn, muff-divers and man-haters.

Any chance you're just a teensy bit queer yourself and would like to join us Lesbian Avengers at the weekly beer-bust and bulging biceps contest at the Rawhide?

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Date: Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 23:49:25 (GMT)
From: Disculta
Email: None
To: Thelma
Subject: Katie outing me as a lesbian is very cruel
Message:
That was me not her.

She's awfully straight, actually, but has marched in the Gay Pride Parade on several occasions, but not wearing rawhide or nothin.'

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 04:09:32 (GMT)
From: Thelma
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: Which one is the one in crotchless chaps, Katie?
Message:
Disculta the dyke on a bike?
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Date: Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 21:53:33 (GMT)
From: Cynthia, a Scorpio Woman
Email: None
To: Thelma
Subject: Thelma, Sign me up......:))(nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 03:00:02 (GMT)
From: Thelma
Email: None
To: Cynthia, a Scorpio Woman
Subject: Thelma, Sign me up. As a lesbian or a Scorpio? NT
Message:
j
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Date: Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 15:40:24 (GMT)
From: Cynthia, a Scorpio Woman
Email: None
To: Thelma
Subject: Thelma, sign me up as a Scorpio Woman who loves...
Message:
lesbians and beer!

Love,
Cyn

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Date: Thurs, Mar 15, 2001 at 00:00:30 (GMT)
From: Katie Darling
Email: None
To: all
Subject: by the way, here's my e-mail
Message:
for kind interactions:
darlingwave@aol.com
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