JHB -:- Why I don't trust Erika -:- Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 22:11:02 (GMT)

__ Katie H. -:- John, a few points -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 01:35:37 (GMT)

__ __ JHB -:- John, a few points -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 11:29:17 (GMT)

__ Erika -:- Why I don't trust Erika -:- Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 22:37:00 (GMT)

__ __ donner -:- Why I don't trust Erika -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 02:29:50 (GMT)

__ __ __ SB -:- Why I don't trust Erika -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 11:12:39 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ AJW -:- Forum Monitors -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 11:31:56 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Hi SB -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 11:29:59 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ SB -:- Hi SB -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 14:11:03 (GMT)

__ __ Joe -:- Erika, I trust you will respond -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 02:28:56 (GMT)

__ __ __ Babs -:- Then -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 07:01:44 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Joe -:- Then -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 07:25:40 (GMT)

__ __ __ DV -:- Correct Joe, I don't remember you that way at all! -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 03:42:51 (GMT)

__ __ La-ex -:- Erika, a coupla questions for you... -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 01:36:20 (GMT)

__ __ __ Erika -:- Erika, a coupla questions for you... -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 03:06:00 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Erika, you can write to Maharaji.... -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 04:22:16 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Joe -:- Don't Hit and Run Erika, that's not fair -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 03:27:50 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Erika -:- Did you not see my apology? -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 03:48:21 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- Damning by faint praise -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 03:53:14 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Scott Cronin -:- Damning by faint praise -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 04:16:27 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- So what's your point, Scott? -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 07:48:34 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ scott -:- So what's your point, Scott? -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 16:41:26 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- So what's your point, Scott? -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 17:14:57 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- Are you talking about Booth Dyess? -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 04:21:09 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Monmot -:- Jeez, Joe...I don't think that -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 04:40:08 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- Scott, I was never in Houston as a premie.... -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 04:19:15 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ scott c. -:- Scott, I was never in Houston as a premie.... -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 04:32:58 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- I got fired from DECA -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 04:37:05 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ scott C. -:- I got fired from DECA -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 04:49:40 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- It's okay -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 04:53:33 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Joe, is it revisionism or evolution? -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 04:44:02 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- Tight as a piano wire.... -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 04:47:04 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ la-ex -:- Joe, I defended you in 'coupla questions' above nt -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 05:07:05 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- Thanks, LA-Ex, just read it. -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 05:12:25 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Bye, Erika -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 03:14:00 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Erika -:- Bye, Erika -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 04:06:12 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Lesley -:- To Erika -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 20:21:12 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ ScottC. -:- To Erika -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 21:37:03 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- To Scott -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 22:09:37 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- Scott, what do you have against honesty? -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 22:09:17 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Scott -:- Scott, what do you have against honesty? -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 23:32:43 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ scott -:- Scott, what do you have against honesty? -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 23:25:18 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- Scott, what do you have against honesty? -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 11:23:07 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Scott -:- Scott, what do you have against honesty? -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 14:15:22 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- Kind of sad Erika -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 05:03:50 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Katie H. -:- Appreciate the honesty - and some comments -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 04:31:35 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Bye, Erika - sorry about the bruises -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 04:26:16 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie Darling -:- Bye Erika, Sorry about the bruises too nt -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 22:20:32 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- Erika caused as many bruises as she got. -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 23:28:01 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Scott C. -:- Erika caused as many bruises as she got. -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 23:39:24 (GMT)

__ __ __ Jim -:- Great fuckin post, LAX -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 01:44:21 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ la-ex -:- Even if you LOVE me, you're not gettin that beer.. -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 01:46:58 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Aw shit! (nt) -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 01:56:52 (GMT)

__ __ janet -:- so premies are now questioning more openly.. -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 00:50:02 (GMT)

__ __ Mark -:- Why I don't trust Erika -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 00:27:04 (GMT)

__ __ Jim -:- Funny, I DO trust her -:- Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 22:48:53 (GMT)

__ __ __ Erika -:- Funny, I DO trust her -:- Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 23:31:47 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Erika, you will soon be an ex-church lady NT -:- Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 23:52:37 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Funny, I DO trust her -:- Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 23:35:09 (GMT)

__ __ __ Dermot -:- *** JIM IS A PREMIE PLANT *** -:- Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 23:19:25 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Jim -:- No way, Looser! -:- Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 23:23:33 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Dermot -:- say no more nudge nudge wink wink knowhatimean nt -:- Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 23:29:40 (GMT)

__ __ __ JHB -:- Jim, Why are we always arguing? -:- Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 22:52:41 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Chaos theory, Quantum mechanics, Channeling.... -:- Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 23:02:31 (GMT)

__ __ JHB -:- I missed the criticism... -:- Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 22:45:51 (GMT)

__ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Waiting for M to evolve. Why? -:- Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 23:55:26 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ JHB -:- I'm still waiting for Erika to criticise M -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 00:01:47 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Thelma -:- Waiting for Erika to exhale -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 00:29:16 (GMT)

Richard -:- The Forum V Glossary -:- Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 21:45:12 (GMT)

__ Tony Walker (Aussi Ji) -:- Yeah.What is BTW.is it below the waist?nt -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 09:29:24 (GMT)

__ __ Richard -:- BTW = By The Way /nt -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 17:46:25 (GMT)

__ __ __ Tony Walker (Aussi Ji) -:- Thanks Richard I am sooo relieved.nt -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 20:12:55 (GMT)

__ Richard -:- The Forum V Glossary - compiled from this thread -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 07:46:51 (GMT)

__ __ Pat Conlon -:- The Forum V Glossary - you're so synchronized -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 11:17:42 (GMT)

__ G -:- The Forum V Glossary -:- Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 23:00:20 (GMT)

__ __ WMary -:- The Forum V Glossary -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 11:21:14 (GMT)

__ __ Jim -:- How about names for the Holy One himself? -:- Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 23:18:06 (GMT)

__ __ __ Cynthia -:- Goomraji, Goober, Mahaha, Urug (Pat C.'s)... -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 03:41:42 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Cynthia, Pat C or Patsy? -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 04:30:36 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Patsy...it's very, hmmmm...becoming..:))) -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 15:48:05 (GMT)

__ __ __ G -:- his family -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 02:55:02 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ G -:- and for Bhole Ji...bowl o' lard nt -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 03:07:10 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ G -:- the Fatguru (nt) -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 03:16:34 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ G -:- How about some emoticons for his greaseness? -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 05:38:27 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- That's very funny, G (nt) -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 16:06:02 (GMT)

__ __ __ Richard -:- How could we have forgotten M? -:- Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 23:34:19 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Jim -:- If you're really doing this, I can think of more -:- Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 23:42:59 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Richard -:- If you're really doing this - I am compiling these -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 00:00:17 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- If you're really doing this - I am compiling these -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 00:04:32 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ moldy warp -:- Richard - God-in-a-Bod v. the premielite era nt -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 02:33:15 (GMT)

__ Dermot -:- More about X-rated? -:- Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 21:56:57 (GMT)

__ __ Richard -:- More about X-rated? -:- Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 22:06:19 (GMT)

__ __ __ donner -:- More about X-rated? -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 02:32:46 (GMT)

__ __ __ Dermot -:- More about X-rated? -:- Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 22:14:05 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Richard -:- PAMPOSTAGE - excellent Dermot! -:- Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 22:40:24 (GMT)

__ JHB -:- Correction to drip -:- Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 21:52:18 (GMT)

__ __ AJW -:- Coagulation -:- Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 22:16:54 (GMT)

__ __ __ JHB -:- Coagulation -:- Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 22:39:39 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ AJW -:- That's because... -:- Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 22:59:23 (GMT)

__ __ __ Ricahrd -:- Master Anth, please tell us -:- Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 22:35:18 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Katie H. -:- I beg to differ -:- Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 22:43:49 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- coagulation vs crystallisation. -:- Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 22:51:55 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- coagulation vs crystallisation. -:- Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 22:55:05 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ janet the mensa -:- it's neither. it's TITRATION and PRECIPICATION -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 01:47:49 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- TITRATION can cause PRECIPICATION and COAGULATION -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 11:07:26 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- PRECIPITATION is correct! -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 01:57:39 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Richard -:- So PARTICIPATION leads to PRECIPITATION ! /nt -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 02:06:43 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- So PARTICIPATION leads to PRECIPITATION ! -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 02:17:50 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ AJW -:- S.s.s.s.sorr.r.rryy -:- Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 22:39:50 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Richard -:- No, just lixdexic sometimes -:- Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 22:43:21 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- No, just lixdexic sometimes -:- Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 22:56:34 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- ^^^LOLOLOL^^^HILARITY UNBOUND^^^(nt) -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 03:55:30 (GMT)

__ Pat Conlon -:- Revised EV Glossary -:- Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 21:50:32 (GMT)

__ __ Pat Conlon -:- Revised EV Glossary Contd. -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 05:55:31 (GMT)

__ __ Cynthia -:- ''Participation = Dollars, US Please'' (nt) :)) -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 03:58:50 (GMT)

__ __ __ G -:- Participation = part with those dollars $( -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 05:29:32 (GMT)

__ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- ''Precious'' = Divine (NT) -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 04:32:26 (GMT)

__ __ AJW -:- You forgot... -:- Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 22:42:12 (GMT)

__ __ Dermot -:- Revised EV Glossary -:- Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 22:04:26 (GMT)

__ __ __ AJW -:- But as a recent Ex found out... -:- Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 22:44:53 (GMT)

__ Dermot -:- Cheers Richard.You missed out FOFOFOFOFOFOFOFOG nt -:- Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 21:50:07 (GMT)

__ __ Richard -:- FOFOFOFOFOFOFOFOG = Six devotees of separation /nt -:- Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 22:52:25 (GMT)

Mistress Thelma -:- Sunday morning comic -:- Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 19:01:43 (GMT)

__ Sir Dave -:- Sunday morning comic -:- Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 19:21:37 (GMT)

__ __ Pat Conlon -:- Sir Dave, please, pretty please -:- Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 19:36:09 (GMT)

__ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Sir Dave, please, pretty please -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 00:45:17 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Sir Dave, thanks kind sir NT -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 02:00:24 (GMT)

__ Selene -:- Now *that* is trusting the master -:- Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 19:19:06 (GMT)

__ __ Thelma -:- Throw me off? You're kidding, Selene! -:- Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 19:51:53 (GMT)

__ Jim -:- I don't think you can have nipples on the forum -:- Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 19:14:54 (GMT)

__ __ Thelma -:- I don't think you can have nipples on the forum -:- Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 19:53:28 (GMT)

__ __ __ Thelma -:- Evolution - the Master is the Missing Link -:- Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 20:15:32 (GMT)

la-ex -:- Irving Janis, on 'GroupThink'.... -:- Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 18:44:24 (GMT)

__ janet -:- john fitzgerald kennedy--with vigah -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 02:20:40 (GMT)

__ __ la-ex -:- And the final answer is... -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 04:57:10 (GMT)

__ Jim -:- Hm, sounds like NASA to me -:- Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 19:00:30 (GMT)

__ __ la-ex -:- Hm, sounds like NASA to me.Nope,guess again nt -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 00:48:39 (GMT)

__ __ __ Jim -:- Of course I'm right. This contest is rigged -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 01:17:42 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ moldy warp -:- No you're not. It's Adolf with moustache, nt -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 01:28:00 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- That's what I said, isn't it? Look, I win! (nt) -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 01:34:46 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ la-ex -:- Nope,nope,nope...No winners yet...nt -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 01:43:39 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ moldy warp -:- No you don't. You don't spell NAZI like that! (nt) -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 01:41:43 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Well that's how you say it in Alabama, looser (nt) -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 01:51:09 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ moldy warp -:- Didn't realise FV posts need to be translated into -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 01:56:58 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ moldy warp -:- la-ex where are you. You've done a runner -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 01:45:09 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ moldy warp -:- OK. I'd changed my mind anyway. Its Margaret Thatc -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 01:51:10 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ janet -:- the democratic party? the US government? -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 02:04:56 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ la-ex -:- Janet-close, but no cigar(hint.......his hero)nt -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 02:12:26 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- You gave it away, Ex-Lax -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 02:19:43 (GMT)

Bryn -:- Michael Donner, Waldorf, Steiner. -:- Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 15:02:17 (GMT)

__ Toby -:- Michael Donner, Waldorf, Steiner. -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 09:15:09 (GMT)

__ __ Bryn -:- No understanding-no exit. -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 13:02:44 (GMT)

Pat Conlon -:- Erika, you seem like a well-adjusted PWK -:- Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 10:00:35 (GMT)

__ Erika -:- Erika, you seem like a well-adjusted PWK -:- Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 22:17:04 (GMT)

__ __ Pat Conlon -:- Erika, you are thoughtful, kind and caring -:- Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 23:22:24 (GMT)

__ __ __ JHB -:- No she's not. -:- Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 23:34:30 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- John, wanna switch roles? -:- Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 23:48:37 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- No, I've just bought these ..... -:- Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 23:54:42 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- John, is that a joke? -:- Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 23:57:20 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- No - but I was at fault (totally OT) -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 00:09:41 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- whew! For one minute there I thought you were -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 00:32:58 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- No - the prejudice was bad but not as.... -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 00:40:26 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Fuck footers in Milan, John, and buy a ticket to -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 00:45:01 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- What's the date? (nt) -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 00:46:29 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- What's the date? Tentatively -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 02:04:45 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Make it May or early June -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 02:08:56 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Make it May or early June -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 02:16:53 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Hold on there about changing the date -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 13:14:27 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Marianne, we'll stick with the original date -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 20:49:08 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Reservations to me, please -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 20:56:18 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Make it May or early June -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 02:20:00 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- P.S. Pat - hope there's a place to 'step outside' -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 02:31:21 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- So long as I don't have to act like a lady too (nt -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 02:50:40 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- It might be an improvement Jim :) (nt) -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 02:52:25 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Did you see that? See what she does everyone?? -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 02:55:52 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- P.S. Katie H -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 02:46:07 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie H. -:- P.S. Katie H -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 02:49:18 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- EPO's so uncultivated -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 03:06:40 (GMT)

__ Bob Dylan,to Erika... -:- 'How many deals must a satguru break, before we... -:- Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 18:49:05 (GMT)

__ Tim G -:- the inevitable dead end of Masters -:- Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 14:47:45 (GMT)

__ __ Pat Conlon -:- the inevitable dead end of boring religions -:- Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 17:48:21 (GMT)

__ __ __ Katie H. -:- Pat, that was my final 'drip'! -:- Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 20:29:04 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Katie, that was my final 'drip'! -:- Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 20:36:58 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Dickie -:- Pat was struck dumb on the road to d' Castro /nt -:- Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 21:03:58 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Connie -:- Pat struck dumb, that's an oxymoron! nt -:- Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 21:22:18 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Thanks, Connie. I knew you would stick up for -:- Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 21:35:17 (GMT)

__ Katie Darling -:- Pat - you lost me on the music thing -:- Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 11:15:19 (GMT)

__ __ Pat Conlon -:- Katie D, the music thing was a cheap shot -:- Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 17:44:14 (GMT)

__ __ Katie Darling -:- Erika: a question about deal-breakers -:- Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 11:37:25 (GMT)

__ __ __ Erika -:- Erika: a question about deal-breakers -:- Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 22:25:49 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Monmot -:- Bingo on Mozart's Requiem -:- Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 01:12:44 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Erika: I KNEW IT!!! -:- Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 23:46:56 (GMT)

Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 22:11:02 (GMT) From: JHB Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Why I don't trust Erika Message:

(and I don't mean my mother) I got to read all the Erika posts in one go (I may have missed a few) and frankly I was a bit surprised about the respect she was given. She is quite clearly 100% devotee, and in spite of what she says, I do not believe she has ever criticised Maharaji in public (care to prove me wrong Erika?). It's only her apparent willingness to raise some of the troubling issues with current PAMs that has given her some credence here. Well I don't believe she has any intention of seriously addressing these issues. I believe she is here as a deliberate attempt by Maharaji and EV to present Maharaji in a new light, which is:- The way Knowledge was presented in the past was wrong, lots of mistakes were made, but there is still some value in receiving Knowledge, and in spite of his past, Maharaji is still a good teacher for teaching this wonderful thing. Her statement that she stopped believing that M was the Lord at the same time that M stopped presenting himself as such is laughable. Tell me Erika, why is Arti still played at events? Has Maharaji written some new words, or are the words that he is the Superior Power in Person still valid? One thing I've found in life is that people who present themselves to strangers by signing off emails, letters, etc., with 'love', and otherwise try to come across as kind, sweet, loving people, are usually full of shit, and quickly turn to vitriol when challenged. I see nothing in Erika's posts to change my mind on this. John the don't believe a word Erika says.

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 01:35:37 (GMT) From: Katie H. Email: None To: JHB Subject: John, a few points Message:

First, I believe that Erika HAS criticized M - perhaps not like the ex-premies criticize him, but certainly more than any self-identified current premie has done on this site - perhaps ever. She has said that she's concerned about the alcohol and sexual irregularities that Michael Donner and Dettmers have reported - and she seems to believe them. Secondly, I take issue with your statement: One thing I've found in life is that people who present themselves to strangers by signing off emails, letters, etc., with 'love', and otherwise try to come across as kind, sweet, loving people, are usually full of shit, and quickly turn to vitriol when challenged. I know you said 'usually', but we both know a certain person who ALWAYS signs 'Love' and who really is a truly kind, sweet, loving person. I just don't see this as being true, even 'most of the time'. Plus Erika does know several of the posters on here so it's not just all coming out of the blue. BTW, I was SHOCKED at your story about the sink!!! Still laughing, although I'm sure it wasn't funny at the time. Take care, Katie (the formerly 'nice')

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Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 11:29:17 (GMT) From: JHB Email: None To: Katie H. Subject: John, a few points Message:

Katie, I thought her criticism was a bit conditional. Regarding signing off with 'love' to strangers (as the vast majority of us are), I was probably a bit strong with the 'full of shit' comment, but I stand by the sentiment. She doesn't feel love for me and if she genuinely wishes me well, then signing off with 'best wishes' or something similar would be better. No, I still don't trust her. I think she's full of cult conditioning. John.

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Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 22:37:00 (GMT) From: Erika Email: None To: JHB Subject: Why I don't trust Erika Message:

JHB, You're welcome to not believe me; in my first post I invited anybody who needed to flame or discount me to do so. In fact, I've been surprised at the respect and openness I've gotten from most people here; it's made me listen more carefully to what they say. And to think I'm a premie/EV plant is also your perogative; however, it's not true. I'm here on my own recognizance. Some premie friends have since called me up, wanting to talk about the issues and questions they're having, because they saw my post and figured we could have an open conversation. I don't beleive I need to prove to you that I'm willing to criticize M in public; I've done that here. How much more public can I get? As I said to Jim a few days ago, I imagine it's quite likely that M has read some of these posts, too. Erika

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 02:29:50 (GMT) From: donner Email: None To: Erika Subject: Why I don't trust Erika Message:

hi again...once more...there is no way that m has/is reading this site...nor is anyone close to him telling him what is on it or that michael and i and guy and others he might remember are on it. also, please do not forget to keep me postd on if m reads your questions to him and request for an apology. and if or not he responds to you at all. i would be shocked at both unlikelihoods. gary says hi to you both

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 11:12:39 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: donner Subject: Why I don't trust Erika Message:

Hi Michael, Thanks for your courage. Relief? :) How can you say that NOBODY around Lard reads the forum? The changes on EV web site say the opposite. If you look on the archives you would see that those changes clearly occurred as a response for what was some ex-premies were posting here at FV at the time of their changes,one of them denying that Lard ever said he was God. Also, Terry Yingling insinuated me a while a go on the phone that PAMs do read the forum, and that they were aware about what ex-premies were saying here. What do you think?

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 11:31:56 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: SB Subject: Forum Monitors Message:

Hi SB, The forum is monitored by EV, both centrally in the States, and in some of the countries where there used to be lots of premies once. It would appear they have a policy. If a premie posts on the forum for the first time, they get a visit, or invited out to dinner by some hardcore premie pals who have a little chat about the dangers of getting mixed up with the posse of the Antichrist. If premies get mentioned on the forum, they get informed by EV that someone has been writing about and given a copy of what was written. I've had premie pals get back to me on this one. (Although Sandy Collier, if she's been getting the messages from the monitors, hasn't returned our blender yet.) A recent Ex-PAM was told it was 'Agya' he shouldn't look at the forum. The cult are well aware of everything that goes on here, and they are extremely frightened and concerned by it. Their reasons are obvious. Information on the Net is destroying them. Anth, who had his little chat too.

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 11:29:59 (GMT) From: Pat Conlon Email: None To: SB Subject: Hi SB Message:

You said: ''Also, Terry Yingling insinuated me a while a go on the phone that PAMs do read the forum, and that they were aware about what ex-premies were saying here.'' I'm sure they do but I'm only guessing and it sounds like you know. I wish you'd tell us more.

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 14:11:03 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: Pat Conlon Subject: Hi SB Message:

I don't know more. i would be happy to say it if I did. Lard deserves all our attention. BTW: EV, I want him to explain the 'rotten vegetable satsang' and his present version of it. PAMs? The 'walk' invitation doesn't do it for me. He is not sincere.

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 02:28:56 (GMT) From: Joe Email: None To: Erika Subject: Erika, I trust you will respond Message:

Erika, As I have said in every post I've made to you, I take what you say at face value, even if I think it's senseless and I disagree with it. That's the value of this forum. You can actually talk about this stuff, with people who have some familiarity with the subject. So, I for one think you will do that, and if that's 'trust' then I have it until shown reasons to think otherwise. I would appreciate responses to my posts down below, especially since you have said some pretty rotten things about me without any basis whatsoever, and that aren't going to respond to me because you admittedly faulty memory is of a disrespectful (what are you a NUN?), nasty person. Funny how nobody else I remember has that memory. Hey Mark, hey Babs, hey Nona, hey DV, hey Steve, you remember me that way, or is it just Erika? I would appreciate responses. I also want a response regarding what Maharaji and Elan Vital have on their websites now, let alone what any of us said or believed 25 years ago. Do you think they are accurate? Do you think it's true that the ashrams were set up to protect people from drugs and that Maharaji never claimed to be the incarnation of God? And do you agree with Maharaji's statements on his website, in all their implications, that one could leave knowledge at any time (despite Maharaji's threats of hell, smashing into pieces and rotting vegetables), and that Maharaji never was a 'leader' or a 'figurehead?' What do you think are the motivations for those lies?

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 07:01:44 (GMT) From: Babs Email: ralphie@ralphiescafe.com To: Joe Subject: Then Message:

You were a cutie-pie and you know it! Wish I could send you e-mail. (Sigh.) But, seriously, weren't there hierarchies even at COLL? By the time I landed there, the Mission had pretty much already written me off as damaged goods. I was undependable, and not very good at satsang or meditation, so I just held an outside job and was never consulted on how to run the place. Erika, however, was regarded as a leader and so I can imagine that you and she used to have some interesting conversations, to put it mildly. I must confess I spent more time breaking vows than writing policy, back then...

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 07:25:40 (GMT) From: Joe Email: kevjo@mindspring.com To: Babs Subject: Then Message:

You were pretty cute yourself, Babs. Yeah, a lot of fallen ashram premies got sent to COLL. But they were the most fun! I've included my email. BTW, been sharing emails with Nona. What a blast from the past! She was one of my very favorite people.

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 03:42:51 (GMT) From: DV Email: None To: Joe Subject: Correct Joe, I don't remember you that way at all! Message:

nt- (would not fit on the subject line)

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 01:36:20 (GMT) From: La-ex Email: None To: Erika Subject: Erika, a coupla questions for you... Message:

Hi Erika- You must like reading, typing and staring at a computer screen all day.(Makes me wonder where you get all that time to dabble in architecture, writing, music, gardening, raising kids, taking care of the large comfortable house on the river,planning the retirement in 12 years in Wales,the get togethers with family and friends, and spending quality time with those two teenagers who somehow love each other and you too...) (Don't mean to be a wise guy, it just came out, as I remember your little back and forth with TED Farkel and E. Windsor) OK, a few questions, comments... 1)I'm just wondering why you are here. I think you said it was to present a 'different' perspective to the EPO site, or something like that. My hunch is that you are using EPO to work out a lot of stuff about your relationship with m and k that you need to address. This seems like good therapy for you. Would you be willing to admit that you are re-evaluating your relationship with the whole thing? If you are, why would you have to come here? Why wouldn't maharaji offer a similar opportunity? Why, in your opinion, is he SO afraid of any type of communication other than him speaking, and others listening? Do you think it would be beneficial for the pwk's to be able to have a real and sincere Q&A with him? Why is it all so One-Way with him? You know what I think? I think he is extremely scared and insecure. His knowledge thing is only working with about 3-4% of the original devotees. (Most of them seem to be the 'church ladies', the 'true believers' who cannot and will not see him as anything less than Lord, knowledge as anything less than perfect.) You, do seem to be different....I like that.... But why the huge dropout rate, if K is so great? Were the 96-97% dropouts lazy, insincere, lost in the world, 'in their minds'? Or did we grow up faster than he did, because we were allowed to, and he wasn't. Is it possible that we are seeing things about this that make it unworkable, that he cannot see, or refuses to see? 2)About your discussions with current pwk's in which criticism of m is allowed... Can you describe these discussions a bit? Are they at the level of the ones on EPO? In other words, anything goes, any question or comment is fair game? What are some of the specifics you guys have talked about? Would those pwk's in your discussion group be secure enough to post on EPO? Doesn't all of this tell you that maharaji is avoiding something? Something big that he should be addressing? Does that bother you? 3)The ethics of the current propagation: Does it bother you that maharaji asks pwk's to go out and 'spread the word'(synchronized of course through videos), but never ONCE addresses these other issues (the scandals, his revisionism)with you guys, his team? Doesn't that seem strange to you? What are you supposed to do when you invite that co-worker or neighbor to the video...OK, they mildly liked it, maybe even come again...then they see EPO..then how do you feel? Pretty stupid, right? Shouldn't he address these issues, if for no other reason than 1)common courtesy to you, the student, so you don't make a total ass of yourself in the propagation process, and 2)to help himself propagate K? 3)the third reason might be to tell the truth to the new people, but I'm honestly not sure that is a concern of his.. 4)Hmmm..this is getting long, I'll wrap it up here.. About Joe Whalen, a little anecdote about Joe... A friend of mine and myself first met Joe when he became the new CC in Wash DC in the late 1970's.... As soon as we heard him speak, we instantly knew we would like him. We had 'church lady' radar back then, and could spot 'em a mile away as they came through the community. We knew Joe was 'one of us' (a regular guy, even though he was a honcho) and invited him out to dinner in downtown DC. He gladly accepted (unusual for a cc), had a fun time with us(almost sacreligious at that time for an ashram premie to go out 'in the world' and have fun), paid for his own dinner(we almost fainted), and I think, picked up the tip as well(this was too much!) So, Erika, he wasn't the 'church lady' you thought he was, at least not in DC... (however, I do believe he may have eaten a few 'honey oat bars' for free at one of our service projects once (we made hob's while listening to piped in satsang at the local ashram I think) and I have also long suspected Joe of having commandeered a box of honey oat bars for the broters ashram without paying full price for them...) So, you can see he's not perfect, but a pretty good guy,a mensch, in most people's book, I think... Sincerely, La-ex (Is David Anderson your brother? I lived in a premie house for a summer with him in Miami....Rock and Roll in his veins, and he did a mean mahatma/hindi schtik, I believe...)

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 03:06:00 (GMT) From: Erika Email: None To: La-ex Subject: Erika, a coupla questions for you... Message:

La-ex, You've given me the perfect opportunity to say something I was about to say anyway... As anyone who's reading this has noticed, I've been spending quite a bit of time here over the past little while. And since I do (as you pointed out) have a business, children, husband, friends, house, etc., I'm going to need to step back quite a bit now. I feel as though I've been listening carefully to people, and have tried to respond in an open and balanced way to most of what I've heard. I appreciate the information and perspective that everyone has shared; it's one source in thinking through my own relationship to M and K. Now I feel that people are starting to ask me questions that I've either already answered to the best of my abilities, or to which I have no answer (and am therefore questioning myself). I need to take this all in now and let it percolate, write my letter to M, and see what happens. I would like to ask that you accord me the right to post from now on only when and as I can and have time, and not assume that I'm being evasive, dishonorable, culty, etc. if I don't post much. I hope for each of you that you continue to resolve whatever issues remain for you with M and K, so that you can move ahead in your lives with all the love, joy and confidence you deserve to feel. Thanks for engaging in this dialogue with me, With respect, Erika

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 04:22:16 (GMT) From: Cynthia Email: None To: Erika Subject: Erika, you can write to Maharaji.... Message:

until the cows come home from here to eternity...you ain't gettin' an answer. He wouldn't respond to Susan, who was sexually abused by jagdeo. I haven't really been keeping up too much on all your posting, but take it from a maharaji letter writer: if it's not marked ''return to sender,'' it'll go into some circular file or shredder. Face it, you're in a cult, he doesn't care about you, give it up. And I ain't posting in this thread again, so don't go bothering to answer me. But, you are in a cult. Plus, you owe Joe an apology! Cynthia

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 03:27:50 (GMT) From: Joe Email: None To: Erika Subject: Don't Hit and Run Erika, that's not fair Message:

You at least should have the common courtesy to give some basis for the names you called me. I would think you would demand the same, and I think you would get it. It would probably only take you a few minutes. Something like you would tell your kids to say, if they said something false about another person on a public forum. Something like, 'I was wrong to say that.' You know, the kind of think you are hoping Maharaji, some day, might say.

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 03:48:21 (GMT) From: Erika Email: None To: Joe Subject: Did you not see my apology? Message:

Joe, I apologized to you at length, below. Perhaps you didn't see that; I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. I apologize, again, for misunderstanding your previous post, and for not remembering important information -- which I also thanked you for reminding me about. I also apologize for, as I said below, holding you hostage to 25-year-old impressions I have of you. You and others have pointed out that you have changed a lot over the years, and I accept that may be true. Erika

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 03:53:14 (GMT) From: Joe Email: None To: Erika Subject: Damning by faint praise Message:

No, I read it, and thanks for that, but, basically, you said, 'God, I'm really sorry that, maybe now, Joe isn't a disrespectful, stubborn, inflexible person, anymore but he was then', especially because nobody else from COLL seems to have those impressions, that only you, seem to have. I wouldn't go so far as to suggest that you are using that as a means to avoid the sincere questions I've asked you, but what else am I to think?

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 04:16:27 (GMT) From: Scott Cronin Email: None To: Joe Subject: Damning by faint praise Message:

Joe: Do you remember me from the Houston ashram? Perhaps this was a particularly stressful time for you , I don't know, but i must say you did come off as a bit of a tight-ass. I too was perceived as a bit of a militant and you were right up there w/ the jihad-devotee class. You were usually willing to engage in a good kick in the ass of any premie that displayed anything less than a total focus on Satang, service and meditation....you had great posture in the meditation room. Maybe inflexible is a word that harshes your mellow, but I must say that it was my experience, at least during your tenure in Houston...maybe it was the humidity. I thought at the time you would have made a great Marine or green beret. History is typically prone to revisionist tendencies. Live with it. Scott Cronin

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 07:48:34 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Scott Cronin Subject: So what's your point, Scott? Message:

We all know Whalen's a tight-ass. But, like they say, Scott, you can pick your friends and you can pick your nose but you can't pick your fellow ex-cult members. Joe's Joe and we've learned to work around that. I'm sure you'll find that if you feel uncomfortable reading his posts, hell, don't read them! I know several people who don't read a word he says and they are perfectly happy, healthy exes. I've met some truyl wonderful people here and I've met some real assholes. Whatever Joe Whalen is shouldn't be a bar to your own recovery though, Scott. Okay, seriously now? Honestly, what I read in your post is that you think Joe was a little funny or something even then taking Maharaji seriously. Isn't that all you're really saying? It's bed time for this ol' asshole but I'll tell you something, you want to argue this one and we can do it but, guess what? I'll win.

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 16:41:26 (GMT) From: scott Email: None To: Jim Subject: So what's your point, Scott? Message:

Jim: Well, I guess that settles that.I wasn't aware thatwe were engaged in a repatee competition,is that what this is about? As you'll see by my long and short term memory loss post to Joe, I'd mis-identified him. As I've scanned the depths of my ashram memories, I keep seeing a face w/ a name attached to it...I swear he's wearing the name JOE WHALEN...but ya know what, I've had lyme disease for 3 years and it really fucks with the synaptic relays.Please forgive my Reaganesque lack of recall.Scott

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 17:14:57 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: scott Subject: So what's your point, Scott? Message:

I'm sorry to hear that, Scott. Honestly. I don't know much at all about Lyme's Disease but thanks for the explanation. Good luck in your recovery. P.S. This IS sometimes a repartee competition. Neat, huh? Jim The Premie's Friend

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 04:21:09 (GMT) From: Joe Email: None To: Scott Cronin Subject: Are you talking about Booth Dyess? Message:

He was CC in Houston, and somebody who has been talked about quite a bit here, in both flattering and unflattering terms.

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 04:40:08 (GMT) From: Monmot Email: None To: Joe Subject: Jeez, Joe...I don't think that Message:

today's your day. Maybe Mercury is in your garage or something. You certainly drew the short straw for target practice today. Good thing you're not in this week's Sopranos, or you'd be going the way of Big Pussy, who now sleeps with the fishes. Speaking of which, it's almost that time.... Take care M

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 04:19:15 (GMT) From: Joe Email: None To: Scott Cronin Subject: Scott, I was never in Houston as a premie.... Message:

God, glad you have me mixed up with somebody else, because that person sounds like a true asshole. But no, I was never in Houston, except to attend the Millennium festival. Your name does sound familiar, though. Ever in Miami, DC, SF or San Antonio? Or Chicago?

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 04:32:58 (GMT) From: scott c. Email: None To: Joe Subject: Scott, I was never in Houston as a premie.... Message:

Joe: well fuck me, i must be losin' my marbles.Ya, there was some guy in Houston named Joe Wha....Wayl...Weela..shit! Anyway.if you were him you would know how uptight you were and couldn't deny it. Could you maybe be him just for now so i don't have to grovel any longer. thanks ...are you sure you were'nt in Hous.. how about, yea Miami... that's the ticket..yea you were that asshole at Deca...right, now I remember..S.C.

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 04:37:05 (GMT) From: Joe Email: None To: scott c. Subject: I got fired from DECA Message:

It's true, although I think Jim Hession said he thought 'I would be better off in a community than at DECA.' The translation was: you don't know how to serve Guru Maharaj Ji. So, they made me Community Coordinator in Miami. From the frying pan.... Actually, at COLL, they put me in the legal department, I kept complaining that DECA didn't have ANY of the required permits to do what they were doing, didn't have workers compensation insurance in violation of Florida law, didn't meet most of the OSHA regulations, etc., etc. So, they didn't like that, and they fired me. I think I was at DECA about four months. Actually, I was really glad to get out of there, but also felt kind of guilty that if I was surrendered, I would have been able to do my 'service' better.

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 04:49:40 (GMT) From: scott C. Email: None To: Joe Subject: I got fired from DECA Message:

..OK , that settles it, there's no way the guy i remember as Joe Whalen could have been CC in Miami. unless of course there was a dastardly plan to dissolve the entire miami community. you must feel like Richard...? who was accused of the bombing in Atlanta during the olympics..well at least you were able to garner the defense of people who would have otherwise never come to your defense. You can thank me and Erika for provoking such protection of your reputation and good name. Isn't it wonderful how things work out.S.C.

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 04:53:33 (GMT) From: Joe Email: None To: scott C. Subject: It's okay Message:

You had me mixed up with somebody else, but I think Erika does remember who I am. I'm just really surprised she would say that stuff about me. I mean, we did argue about stuff, but why isn't that okay? Unless I hear otherwise from Erika, all I can think is that she is just using some made-up image of me from the past, to discount what I asked her about. I have no other explanation. I'm really sorry Erika did that.

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 04:44:02 (GMT) From: Pat Conlon Email: None To: Joe Subject: Joe, is it revisionism or evolution? Message:

Were you or were you not once an uptight premie? Just kidding.

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 04:47:04 (GMT) From: Joe Email: None To: Pat Conlon Subject: Tight as a piano wire.... Message:

At least some of the time it felt that way. Don't get me wrong. I had fun, too. And like others have said, I met a lot of great people, some of whom are still my close friends. And now, I'm meeting more of them, again.

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 05:07:05 (GMT) From: la-ex Email: None To: Joe Subject: Joe, I defended you in 'coupla questions' above nt Message:

nt

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 05:12:25 (GMT) From: Joe Email: None To: la-ex Subject: Thanks, LA-Ex, just read it. Message:

I remember that Indian Dinner with you and the other premien in DC. Actually, I loved honey oat bars. I have always loved peanut butter, but can't keep it in the house lest I eat an entire jar with a big spoon. It is a big downfall for me. DC and COLL were the favorite places I lived. I remember when I got called to DECA from DC, I really didn't want to go. But those honey oat bars gave me gas. Thanks, La-Ex, you're one of the people it's been great to come in contact with (again) through the Forum.

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 03:14:00 (GMT) From: Pat Conlon Email: None To: Erika Subject: Bye, Erika Message:

No hard feelings, I hope. I wish you all the best.

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 04:06:12 (GMT) From: Erika Email: None To: Pat Conlon Subject: Bye, Erika Message:

Pat, To be completely honest, I do have some hard feelings for a very few people here who I feel have directed their anger, suspicion and contempt at M toward me (maybe because I'm the only practicing premie to present myself as a target). With regard to these people, I have felt like a punching bag, and it has felt very disrespectful...much more so than anything I've experienced in 'premiedom.' But certainly no hard feelings toward you, or most here... Thanks, Erika

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 20:21:12 (GMT) From: Lesley Email: None To: Erika Subject: To Erika Message:

Dear Erika, I suspect I mght be one of the ones that you feel has made a punching bag out of you. That I suspect is what you did to Joe. In my observation, there is a lot of hard feelings stuffed down in premies throats, that is why I suggested you hang off until you can find the appropriate place to express it. It has been horrifying to me to trace all the misplaced anger and it has been very satisfying and a great relief to be able to get angry at my ex 'supreme power in person' oh sorry I mean 'teacher', that felt good and healing at last. Yes, it took me a while to get there, but once I could vilify the fat frog in public I felt so so so so much better! Regards, Lesley

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 21:37:03 (GMT) From: ScottC. Email: None To: Lesley Subject: To Erika Message:

.'..hang off until you find an appropriate place to express it' What would be an appropriate place? is this a closed, Ex's only pub. when i peruse the pages of this site and witness the way people rip each other a new ass hole on a frequent basis and then turn around and revile someone who is 'fresh meat' it smacks of secularism. Perhaps the good-natured ribbing you give each other is based on familiarity and a sense of belonging that comes with a shared mission. Call it MLM/Malign Light Mission.' Or maybe it's similar to the privilege of blacks calling each other nigger, when a wigger would get the shit kicked out of him for saying it. if you're going to take off the gloves, don't pick favorites. i believe you guys are providing a resourse for premies and ex's that are trying to come to terms with some deeply disturbing behaviors of M.'s you may have passed that goal post a week, a month, a year or a decade ago...good for you, don't rub it in the faces of others who are just beginning to question. Scott

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 22:09:37 (GMT) From: Joe Email: None To: ScottC. Subject: To Scott Message:

Scott, I completely disagree that there is a 'company line' here, but then, this IS an 'ex-premie' site, and because what Maharaji is about is kind of 'all or nothing,' if people have rejected that, their reasons aren't very complimentary of Maharaji and they get expressed. But they vary quite a lot. But aside from that, this forum is no different than any other forum on the internet, in that people can argue and disagree, sometimes strongly, on a whole range of issues, both on topic and off topic. Free speech is messy sometimes, but I'll take that any day over the closed system that are the websites of the cult. So, I wouldn't have it any other way. By the way, Scott, you seem quite willing to be, shall we say, 'blunt,' aren't you? Joe Who couldn't be that guy you mentioned because I never lived in Houston, and never had very good meditation posture anyhow.

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 22:09:17 (GMT) From: JHB Email: None To: ScottC. Subject: Scott, what do you have against honesty? Message:

I have learnt more about communication here in two years than I learnt from 28 years as a devotee, and from many years in business. The biggest lesson is that baring your soul is actually pretty harmless to yourself, but devastating to those who hold a share of your soul. John the naked.

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 23:32:43 (GMT) From: Scott Email: None To: JHB Subject: Scott, what do you have against honesty? Message:

....Nice quote about baring ones soul. Please expound on its relationship to my honesty or lack thereof. Maybe I'm a bit thick, but when you make an accusation I'd appreciate a less veiled context for what you mean...and don't trying to bullshit your way out of it with further faux Gibran. ...honestly.S.C.

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 23:25:18 (GMT) From: scott Email: None To: JHB Subject: Scott, what do you have against honesty? Message:

A bit cryptic for me, pardon my thickness. please explain the connection between my resistance to honesty and your pithy quote. You imply that honesty has gotten you in deep, guilt laden smegma over the course of your 28 years, sorry to hear that. I've spoken pretty openly to premies involved with producing the things I thought were lame in relation to M. Be it the insipid music ala 70's in a 00 world or the cloyingly shot videos or security guys who take their roles way too seriously...the jihad mentality etc. What was there to lose...my seat.No ones ever punished me for my opinion. I've not had the opportunity to be frank w/ M. and don't know if I could if I had the opportunity. you're correct about the fear, no argument there, that's what I'm looking at. so, in the spirit of honesty, could you please speak in less poetic terms so I can grok the import of your honesty. S.C.

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Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 11:23:07 (GMT) From: JHB Email: None To: scott Subject: Scott, what do you have against honesty? Message:

You know, Scott, I've got no idea why I wrote that to you - I was a little drunk at the time. I think it was a response to your criticism of this forum, but it is a bit cryptic isn't it? John.

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Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 14:15:22 (GMT) From: Scott Email: None To: JHB Subject: Scott, what do you have against honesty? Message:

Ya, the juice will do that sometimes. Hang on to the quote though , it will serve a keen entry into 'deep thought' vol.4. Regarding criticism of the forum,isn't that part of unspoken law when one establishes a strong pro or anti view of anything. My kids get more flak on hteir aol chat rooms than this site does. Dig some fox holes and enjoy the fireworks.

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 05:03:50 (GMT) From: Joe Email: None To: Erika Subject: Kind of sad Erika Message:

Erika, Rightly or wrongly, people feel terribly ripped off by Maharaji. I think there are two things people are reacting to, in your presence here, but I disagree that you were treated badly, although I can see you it might appear that way to you. First, you are giving explanations about why you, personally, are having a good time with Maharaji and knowledge, and there is am implication that that's all that matters (although I know you are trying to find out more about the rest of it). Immediately those people who feel hurt badly by Maharaji feel you are insensitive to what happened to them, and they react, and I think if you were in the same situation, so would you. Second, whether you feel that way or not, you appear to be defending Maharaji, and even making excuses for his abysmal failure to take responsbility for the hurt he has caused, or even acknowledge it. So, people who feel hurt by him are going to react to that too. Finally, I'm just really sorry to see you stoop so low as to make negative comments about me 25 years ago, without any explanation, even refusing to give it when I ask, and apparently just use that made-up 'memory' as a reason to discount and ignore the questions I took time to write, and which you stated you sincerely wanted to answer. I'm just really sorry about that. Whether we got along or not 25 years ago, you owe me better than that, and you owe yourself better than that too. All the best Erika, Joe Whalen

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 04:31:35 (GMT) From: Katie H. Email: None To: Erika Subject: Appreciate the honesty - and some comments Message:

dear Erika - You wrote: To be completely honest, I do have some hard feelings for a very few people here who I feel have directed their anger, suspicion and contempt at M toward me (maybe because I'm the only practicing premie to present myself as a target). With regard to these people, I have felt like a punching bag, and it has felt very disrespectful...much more so than anything I've experienced in 'premiedom.' Well, I do appreciate you being honest, first of all. Posting on this forum can be an intense and not too agreeable experience - it's a topic that brings up very strong emotions and people come on really hot. (Actually, though, I have had the same experience on other internet message boards about FAR less controversial topics, so I believe part of it is an internet, not ex-premie-specific phemomenon.) There are personality conflicts here between ex-premies (ever read any of Jim and my 'serious discussions'?) and I believe that these personality conflicts are magnified when premies post. Incidentally, you have NOT been the only practicing premie to post here during the time you've posted - but you WERE new. I can't really sort out whatever happened between you and Joe - if it's personal or political - probably both, I'd guess. I do hope you'll come back and speak here when you've had a chance to think things over. I don't think you've gotten THAT bad a reception (at least relatively). But I know it's not easy - you did get asked a LOT of questions, probably DID feel like a 'punching bag', and it's a time-consuming task to answer all the posts the way you did. Brian keeps calling me to watch parts of 'The Producers', so I can't concentrate all that well - hope this makes sense! Take care, Katie H.

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 04:26:16 (GMT) From: Pat Conlon Email: None To: Erika Subject: Bye, Erika - sorry about the bruises Message:

Yes, some of the guys here are very uncultivated. They've had this poor old sissy fag in tears many a time. I regret psoting to you in haste as well. I could have phrased my words better so as not to give the impression that I was using you as a scapegoat for M. I don't hate him or you or anybody. I'm an old flower child and prefer peace and love to the slugfest that the forum sometimes is. A lot of it has to do with the medium. Cyberspace creates an immunity from immediacy and gives the illusion that there are not real, warm living breathing beings behind the words. I hope that you can put your ideals into practice in EV and don't eventually lose patience with the evasiveness like I did. Your heart is definitely in the right place.

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 22:20:32 (GMT) From: Katie Darling Email: None To: Erika Subject: Bye Erika, Sorry about the bruises too nt Message:

zxcb

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 23:28:01 (GMT) From: Joe Email: None To: Katie Darling Subject: Erika caused as many bruises as she got. Message:

But I don't think in either case they amount to much.

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 23:39:24 (GMT) From: Scott C. Email: None To: Joe Subject: Erika caused as many bruises as she got. Message:

Joe: WHAT!! Is that just your macho self surfacing or just a cute way of saying 'sticks and stones will hurt.....' You expressed quite effectively about how insulted and hurt you were by Erika's words, now you say ...' they won't amount to much' It's good to know you're a fast healer. Stick to your emotional guns, it'll lend credence to your future complaints.S.C.

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 01:44:21 (GMT) From: Jim Email: jamesheller@home.com To: La-ex Subject: Great fuckin post, LAX Message:

Would you email me, sir/ma'am/it, when you get a chance? Adress above, I want to send you something and I think I've lost your address somehow. (That's the problem with airports, isn't it?)

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 01:46:58 (GMT) From: la-ex Email: None To: Jim Subject: Even if you LOVE me, you're not gettin that beer.. Message:

nt

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 01:56:52 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: la-ex Subject: Aw shit! (nt) Message:

hhhhhhh

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 00:50:02 (GMT) From: janet Email: None To: Erika Subject: so premies are now questioning more openly.. Message:

because the site is here, and we are here, and you have come here and been received with more respect and genuineness than you or they expected. so we may deduce from this that if it were not for us being the way we are, providing a place to openly question, you would not have had a place to come and talk, nor would your premie friends have had any place to begin their free speech about it all, either. like a run in a stocking or a sweater--you snag one loop,you start with one thread and pull--and unravel the whole fabric. hey-- didnt he always say we were all connected like one thread? may the ripples continue to spread. Invite your premie buddies over here to read and question. I think you've found out for yourself that we don't eat our visitors alive.

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 00:27:04 (GMT) From: Mark Email: None To: Erika Subject: Why I don't trust Erika Message:

I hope he does read this.And memorizes Richard's speech below. And delivers it tomorrow in Portland.

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Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 22:48:53 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Erika Subject: Funny, I DO trust her Message:

Erika, I have to say that I do trust you to the extent that I think you've done something here that means something. The way I see it, either you and Maharaji are playing some elaborate shell game or you really have drawn a line in the sand and a public one at that. But let me ask you about that. Have you thought much about this? Say Maharaji never does what you've said he should -- apologize for the harm he's caused people. Was it Susan who used the term 'deal breaker'? Would that be a deal breaker for you? I guess that if you care about your credibility here (and I can't see how you couldn't. It's only natural, I'm sure), while you might not be able to bolster it by changing your views, or even your memories, to what they're not, you could explain further what it means to you to confront Maharaji as you have here. If he stonewalls you, will it be business as usual? Or are you prepared to say right now that you've got some minimal expectations for him and that if he can't satisfy them you're gone. Can you say that? If so, great. If not, what's the use talking about any of this? Jim The Premie's Friend

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Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 23:31:47 (GMT) From: Erika Email: None To: Jim Subject: Funny, I DO trust her Message:

Jim, That really is the $64,000 question, isn't it? I guess the one thing I can say for certain is this: if the result of all this revealing of myself on this site, and the letter I'm writing to M, is that I become persona non grata with M and other premies...then I guess the medium is the message, eh? In other words, if this dialogue really is 'forbidden,' to use Susan's word, then I don't want to be a part of something like that. Beyond that, I'm still working it out. Erika

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Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 23:52:37 (GMT) From: Pat Conlon Email: None To: Erika Subject: Erika, you will soon be an ex-church lady NT Message:

l

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Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 23:35:09 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Erika Subject: Funny, I DO trust her Message:

Erika, I'm with you all the way on this one, Erika. You're okay.

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Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 23:19:25 (GMT) From: Dermot Email: None To: all Subject: *** JIM IS A PREMIE PLANT *** Message:

Dont ask me how I did it but I sussed it all out. it's a 5 year plan. anthnature: Dermot the non-paranoid true eX-rated one

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Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 23:23:33 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Dermot Subject: No way, Looser! Message:

Ich bien und achtung bitta dis und bitta dat und, Erika, packen de boxes und viteos up, schnell, schnell, schnell! Acht splitinzey auf 'Serenity' mit haste!

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Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 23:29:40 (GMT) From: Dermot Email: None To: Jim Subject: say no more nudge nudge wink wink knowhatimean nt Message:

zzzz

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Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 22:52:41 (GMT) From: JHB Email: None To: Jim Subject: Jim, Why are we always arguing? Message:

You defending premies, me attacking them, look it's getting boring. How about if we reversed roles?? John who doesn't actually remember defending premies but it made a good post.

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Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 23:02:31 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: JHB Subject: Chaos theory, Quantum mechanics, Channeling.... Message:

Good question, John. It's a strange, strange world. What can I tell you? BTW, your Anth-line: 'John who doesn't actually remember defending premies but it made a good post.' was hilarious. Jim Everyone's Friend

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Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 22:45:51 (GMT) From: JHB Email: None To: Erika Subject: I missed the criticism... Message:

I read that you thought M needed to evolve (or something like that), but considering the weight of evidence recorded here, and visible to yourself from how M has behaved in public over the last 30 years, I would have thought that someone with their eyes open would have a little more to say. So any comment about Arti being played at programs? John the still doesn't trust Erika (or is he simply goading her?)

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Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 23:55:26 (GMT) From: Pat Conlon Email: None To: JHB Subject: Waiting for M to evolve. Why? Message:

If a student waits for the master to evolve then the student is way ahead of the master. Erika will soon be an ex-church lady.

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 00:01:47 (GMT) From: JHB Email: None To: Pat Conlon Subject: I'm still waiting for Erika to criticise M Message:

Can she do it? John.

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 00:29:16 (GMT) From: Thelma Email: None To: JHB Subject: Waiting for Erika to exhale Message:

Maybe she needs an nasty bitch of an alter-ego to do that.

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Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 21:45:12 (GMT) From: Richard Email: None To: Everyone Subject: The Forum V Glossary Message:

This a list of many of the phrases and shorthand used here. Some newcomers have expressed puzzlement at some terms so here they are. Please contribute any that I have missed. Particularly of interest to me are the 'Guruvian Slips'. Ex = ex-premie EPO = ex-premie.org FV or F5 = Forum 5 on ex-premie.org PAM = person around Maharaji FOG = friend of guru FOFOG = friend of a friend of guru PWK, PWIK PWCK, PWICK, PEWK = person with knowledge Amarscroo = sun dappled Amaroo festival site in Australia drip = as in Chinese water torture - the little awakenings that lead one to exit final drip = same as straw that broke the camel's back M = Maharaji K = knowledge (don't ask) The Captain or Captain Rawat = Maharaji when flying The Client = Maharaji when anyone else is around The Speaker = how Maharaji is explained to hotel and hall management Reverand Rawat = First and only representative of the Enigmatic and Autodidactic Church of the Non-Hindu Maharajism X-rated = authorized by M to hang out with him and not reveal what goes on no matter how bizarre EV = Élan Vital - formerly Divine Light Mission, DLM, or DUO Church Lady = the most fastidious of EV personnel Bhakti JuJu = the seductive gumbo of mysticism M brought to the West Maharajism = religion of M and knowledge The following are Guruvian slips: exited utterances (Conlon) ridiculting (Cynthia) Any others I've missed?

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 09:29:24 (GMT) From: Tony Walker (Aussi Ji) Email: None To: Richard Subject: Yeah.What is BTW.is it below the waist?nt Message:

nt

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 17:46:25 (GMT) From: Richard Email: None To: Tony Walker (Aussi Ji) Subject: BTW = By The Way /nt Message:

nt

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 20:12:55 (GMT) From: Tony Walker (Aussi Ji) Email: None To: Richard Subject: Thanks Richard I am sooo relieved.nt Message:

nt

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 07:46:51 (GMT) From: Richard Email: None To: all Subject: The Forum V Glossary - compiled from this thread Message:

This is a list of many of the phrases and shorthand used here. Some newcomers have expressed puzzlement at some terms so here they are. Please contribute any that I have missed. This list will be alphabetized later. Particularly of interest to me are the 'Guruvian Slips' - inadvertantly profound mistakes. The following are Guruvian slips: exited utterances - Conlon said instead of excited utterances ridiculting - Cynthia said instead of ridiculing Emoticons: $$$:)->O-< = That's him dancing with his crown. Money makes him so happy. (G) Forum V Glossary: Ex = ex-premie EV = Élan Vital EPO = ex-premie.org FV or F5 = Forum 5 on ex-premie.org PAM = person around Maharaji PAM postage = postings by former PAMs FOG = friend of guru FOFOG = friend of a friend of guru PWK, PWIK PWCK, PWICK, PEWK = person with knowledge or premie Happy Clapper = pwk Heavy Breather = pwk Gurunoid = pwk ELK = Enjoying Life with Knowledge - a premie website Amarscroo = sun dappled Amaroo festival site in Australia drip = The drips referred to are those required to add to a solution for it to reach the required concentration for precipitation (crystalisation) to occur - see AJW's journey. final drip = The very last drop before which is added, the solution looks the same. With the final drip, crystallization occurs. K = knowledge (don't ask) K-Lite or knowledge lite = the way the techniques are presented today X-rated = authorized by M to hang out with him and not reveal what goes on EV = Élan Vital - formerly Divine Light Mission, DLM, or DUO Church Lady = the most fastidious or dedicated of EV personnel Bhakti JuJu = the seductive gumbo of mysticism M brought to the West Maharajism = religion of M and knowledge MRC = Maharaji Responsibility Campaign (http://www.openlettertomaharaji.org/) 1,2,3, and 4 = knowledge techniques Terms referring to the past: The early days The workshop era The heavy devotional era (a/k/a the catholic era) [77 - 80] Names for Maharaji: M = Maharaji The Captain or Captain Rawat = Maharaji when flying The Client = Maharaji when anyone else is around The Speaker = how Maharaji is explained to hotel and hall management Reverand Rawat = First and only representative of the Enigmatic and Autodidactic Church of the Non-Hindu Maharajism LOTU = Lord of the Universe Other knicknames for M: MJ GMJ Sant Ji The Perfect Master Sat Guru PPSR Harharaji Bratwat Lard Rugu Urug The Fatguru Hamster (as in 'Perfect Hamster') Tubby Captain Rawat Goomraji Goober Mahaha Margie Miragey Rawrat Rotwat God-in-a-Bod His Rotundity God in Human Form The Greatest Incarnation of God to Ever Trod the Planet Names for M family members: Rogerji = Raja Ji Bowlajello = Bhole Ji Bubble Gumji = Bal Bhagwan Ji Sat Pal = Bal Bhagwan Ji Élan Vital revised glossary: Élan Vital = Divine Light Mission synchronization = agya participation = service video and satellite programs = satsang gratitude = surrender practice = meditation Any more additions?

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 11:17:42 (GMT) From: Pat Conlon Email: None To: Richard Subject: The Forum V Glossary - you're so synchronized Message:

What about? Bratguru Balyogeshwar Rawfat (Francesca's) Snot technique (Anth) Fifth technique - tongue in cheek Sixth technique - cognac Seventh technique - seven year itch, a roll in the hay with hay-haired lasses eighth technique - switch drivers at vehicular manslaughter scenes remember me when you die - remember me in your will Krishna comes again and again - he had to satisfy ten thousand gopis - all without Viagra

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Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 23:00:20 (GMT) From: G Email: None To: Richard Subject: The Forum V Glossary Message:

pwikie = person with knowledge m = Rawat showing 'humility' by not capitalizing 'maharaji' (great king) ex-LOTUS = 'Maharaji' (real name Prem Rawat) who claims he never said he was the Lord Of The UniverSe. Not to be confused with ex-POTUS Bill Clinton, who claimed he didn't have sex what that woman. For one thing, Clinton really was the POTUS. bogus-LOTUS = Rawat when he was claiming to be the LOTUS. Not to be confused with George W Bush.

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 11:21:14 (GMT) From: WMary Email: None To: all Subject: The Forum V Glossary Message:

Let's not forget: the Big Man = BM or bm the Ladies Man Packie the Hackie and Sevenelevenji (7-11ji)

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Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 23:18:06 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: G Subject: How about names for the Holy One himself? Message:

God (no, that doesn't count), there are so many, some pejorative, some not: Harharaji Bratwat m MJ Lard Rugu Hamster (as in 'Perfect Hamster') Tubby Captain Rawat Margie Miragey .... others?

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 03:41:42 (GMT) From: Cynthia Email: None To: Jim Subject: Goomraji, Goober, Mahaha, Urug (Pat C.'s)... Message:

to name just a few, and I'm sure we can come up with many more!

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 04:30:36 (GMT) From: Pat Conlon Email: None To: Cynthia Subject: Cynthia, Pat C or Patsy? Message:

As in Absolutely Fabulous? Maybe I'll call myself Patsy from now on.

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 15:48:05 (GMT) From: Cynthia Email: None To: Pat Conlon Subject: Patsy...it's very, hmmmm...becoming..:))) Message:

nn

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 02:55:02 (GMT) From: G Email: None To: Jim Subject: his family Message:

His holey lardship's family: rogerji is for his older brother who goes by the presumptious title 'Raja Ji'. 'roger' indicates his receipt of his younger brother's orders to him, which he is to carry out unquestioningly. What's his real name? Premies used to to call Prem's his oldest brother 'the bogus bhagwan'. It's more like 'a bogus bhagwan', or 'the other bogus bhagwan' gurupies for groupies of any guru For Prem, how about the jism master? Some other presumptious titles that Prem has gone by: 'Sant Ji', 'Balyogeshwar' (born king of yogis)

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 03:07:10 (GMT) From: G Email: None To: all Subject: and for Bhole Ji...bowl o' lard nt Message:

nt

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 03:16:34 (GMT) From: G Email: None To: all Subject: the Fatguru (nt) Message:

nt

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 05:38:27 (GMT) From: G Email: None To: all Subject: How about some emoticons for his greaseness? Message:

.     $$$:)->O-< That's him dancing with his crown. Money makes him so happy.

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 16:06:02 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: G Subject: That's very funny, G (nt) Message:

ddddd

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Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 23:34:19 (GMT) From: Richard Email: None To: Jim Subject: How could we have forgotten M? Message:

I'll ad these Postie haste.

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Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 23:42:59 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Richard Subject: If you're really doing this, I can think of more Message:

There are the names for m's brothers, the real names and the 'honorifics' like Bubblegumji, Satpal and the like. Marolyn is not just 'Mom' but also 'Durga Ji, Goddess of Love'. Maharaji himself, we should add, is: Lord of the Universe (LOTU) The Perfect Master Sat Guru God in Human Form The Greatest Incarnation of God to Ever Trod the Planet and, perhaps, Mr. Hanky (??) Premies are also: Happy Clappers Gurunoids and, perhaps, Heavy Breathers Enjoying Life with Knowledge is ELK Then there's history. You've got: The early days The workshop era The heavy devotional era (a/k/a the catholic era) [77 - 80] There's more, I guess.

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 00:00:17 (GMT) From: Richard Email: None To: Jim Subject: If you're really doing this - I am compiling these Message:

Happy Clappers is one of my all time favorites. This started as an aid to the recent arrivals but it's got a life of it's own. Keep 'em coming.

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 00:04:32 (GMT) From: Katie Email: None To: Richard Subject: If you're really doing this - I am compiling these Message:

The year of spacing out (1976) Other names for M: Haharaji Rawrat Rotwat (maybe Jim already said this one?) The Meditation Teacher formerly known as the Lord of the Universe (and variations).

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 02:33:15 (GMT) From: moldy warp Email: None To: Richard Subject: Richard - God-in-a-Bod v. the premielite era nt Message:

X

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Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 21:56:57 (GMT) From: Dermot Email: None To: Richard Subject: More about X-rated? Message:

Yo Bro Thanks. Most of those I was familiar with. I've asked La-Ex below about X rated......did Rawat actually say to them that they were so called and shouldnt reveal anything or was it just a 'take it for granted ' sort of situation? Do you or anyone else know about this? Cheers Dermot

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Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 22:06:19 (GMT) From: Richard Email: None To: Dermot Subject: More about X-rated? Message:

Yes, you are correct. Michael Dettmers posted in depth about this recently - an archives search may turn it up and it might also be with his other nuggets catalogued in the archives.

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 02:32:46 (GMT) From: donner Email: None To: Richard Subject: More about X-rated? Message:

m use to use this expression...not sure who started it.

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Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 22:14:05 (GMT) From: Dermot Email: None To: Richard Subject: More about X-rated? Message:

hmm don't know how I missed it ......thought I was on top in my reading of PAMPOSTAGE (hey another one for the glossary haha ) Searching archives is such a hassle.....you said I was correct.....correct in it was a 'take it for granted' scenario or correct in Rawat specifically laid down the rules. That's all I want to know really.

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Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 22:40:24 (GMT) From: Richard Email: None To: Dermot Subject: PAMPOSTAGE - excellent Dermot! Message:

Rawat approved the X-rating of PAMs by other X-rated PAMs makng the X-rated both special and sworn to secrecy. Someone correct me if I'm wrong about this. Richard - only R rated

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Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 21:52:18 (GMT) From: JHB Email: None To: Richard Subject: Correction to drip Message:

The drips referred to are those required to add to a solution for it to reach the required concentration for crystalisation to occur - see AJW's journey. No connection with water torture. John the proof reader.

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Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 22:16:54 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: JHB Subject: Coagulation Message:

Hi John, it was coagulation, not crystalisation, but for a full explanation you 'd need to have done A-level chemistry, or have read my journey. It was great to see you in London the other week. Anth the truly honoured the drips have stuck.

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Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 22:39:39 (GMT) From: JHB Email: None To: AJW Subject: Coagulation Message:

Coagulation, Proagulation, whatever..... I did read your journey, but misremembered it:-) (and I got an A in A level Chemistry!) Is that crystal clear? Anyway, how come the Indian restaurant bill was 318 quid with service charge, and I collected 320 quid without having to go back to anyone for extra? Are we synchronised or what!!!!!!! John the rarely seen that in an Indian restaurant before.

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Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 22:59:23 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: JHB Subject: That's because... Message:

That's because you still owe me two quid John. Anth been in Holland too long.

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Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 22:35:18 (GMT) From: Ricahrd Email: None To: AJW Subject: Master Anth, please tell us Message:

Crystalization is new-agey and Coagulation sounds bloody so which do you prefer? Also, you must have many more acronyms and buzz phrases you can bring forth. Awaiting the words of the (school) master. Richard - who's never heard of Postie, ever

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Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 22:43:49 (GMT) From: Katie H. Email: None To: Ricahrd Subject: I beg to differ Message:

Crystallization is NOT new-agey! It's a scientific word for what happens when there are too many molecules of a substance in solution for said substance to stay in a soluble phase. I think crystallization and coagulation may refer to the same thing. Whatever - Anth definitely gets credit for the useful 'drip' analogy. It reminds me of the 'click' of recognition that was a metaphor in the women's movement.

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Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 22:51:55 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: Katie H. Subject: coagulation vs crystallisation. Message:

Hi Katie, Crystallisation is different from coagulation. Like you said, crystalliation happens when water evaporates from a solution. When coagulation happens, it's because a certain concentration of another chemical has been added to a solution of something. Suddenly, when the final drop is added, something in the solution 'colagulates', and a new substance is formed. Mabye it falls to the bottom of the liquid. The wierd thing is, it happens instantly, not, a bit at a time, as you add the second chemical. It's one more drop, then, whoosh, it all goes at once. We know each other from Reigate don't we Katie? Anth laying at the bottom of the beaker, 'It'a all crystal clear to me.'

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Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 22:55:05 (GMT) From: Katie Email: None To: AJW Subject: coagulation vs crystallisation. Message:

We call that crystallisation around these here parts, Anth. Must be some kind of US hillbilly thang. At least we agree that it ain't new age :).

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 01:47:49 (GMT) From: janet the mensa Email: None To: Katie and anth Subject: it's neither. it's TITRATION and PRECIPICATION Message:

i'm terribly sorry to correct you both, but the chemistry process you are speaking of is TITRATION. {'tie--TRAY--shun']. It occurs when you have a solution of some formula, usually clear or colorless, and another chemical you are adding to it, drop by drop. when you are nearing saturation point, the drips have a harder and harder time finding space to dissolve, in among the original molecules, and so for a brief moment, as the later drips enter the liquid, there is a momentary cloud of color appearing in the original solution--[i recall ours in lab being bright purple. potassium permanganate, i believe it was.] and then disappearing into the clear stuff. sort of like doubts or troubling experiences-- strong enough to mar your conviction, momentarily, but you strain to fit them in and forget them, and they vanish. but as you approach the limit of tolerance for more, as anth says, there comes a point when there is one drop, that turns the entire volume, all at once, over to the color and structure of the new substance. it may stay a liquid. it may congeal. it may crystallize. it may precipitate out and drift to the bottom. one other oddity, is, that if you add a drop of the original liquid, you may change it back across the line to the original clear again. and you can play with it, turning it back and forth if you like, adding one, then the other, changing from clear to purple and vice versa. sort of like shippie does. so for some, the last drip may indeed cause them to settle out and not remix. for some, it depends on what kind of input they get, which color they will be. we on the forum serve in crystallization. we introduce the seed structure to the saturated ['had it up to here'] premie who is uncomfortably overloaded with unanswered questions and doubts, and in touching us, they suddenly have a new structure to connect their own experiences to, and the more of their long held-in, unspoken thoughts they unload and hang on the forum, the more it crystallizes for them. the see clearly what they have had inside them for so long. and with a seed crystal, you usually attach a thread to it, to be able to pull it out of the container when it has crystallized all it is going to. if it stays in the container, all the new substance that gets loaded in to it, promptly crystalizes to the new structure as well. it does not dissolve as before. in other words, the old solution doesnt work anymore.

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 11:07:26 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: janet the mensa Subject: TITRATION can cause PRECIPICATION and COAGULATION Message:

Hi janet, I thought the process of dripping the second solution was known as titration- but the actual effect of it was known as coagulation- or precipitation. And I thought precipitation happened a bit at a time, co-agulation happened all at once. But it's over thirty years since I sat in a Chemistry lesson, and a lot of brain cells have bit the dust since then. Anth, 50% more brains and I'd be a half wit. (See, even the maths in my joke is wrong).

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 01:57:39 (GMT) From: Katie Email: None To: janet the mensa Subject: PRECIPITATION is correct! Message:

I knew there was another word for 'coagulation' - and I use that damn work 'precipitate' a LOT at work (I'm getting old)! Titration is a lab procedure, not really correctly the name for the reaction that occurs during the titration process (IMHO, anyway). I still have to do it, although fortunately we have automatic titrators now. Anyway, liked the analogy. Katie the scientist

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 02:06:43 (GMT) From: Richard Email: None To: janet Subject: So PARTICIPATION leads to PRECIPITATION ! /nt Message:

nt

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 02:17:50 (GMT) From: Katie Email: None To: Richard Subject: So PARTICIPATION leads to PRECIPITATION ! Message:

Sort of :). PARTICIPATION (or just reading) in the forum and site had led to a PRECIPITATING reaction in many people. (Janet got the exact right word - although they may still call it 'coagulation' in the UK...)

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Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 22:39:50 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: Ricahrd Subject: S.s.s.s.sorr.r.rryy Message:

Ricahrd, Sorry mate, I'm going through a bit of a crisis at the moment, well, I guess you could call it a breakdown. Somebody published some of my cult rantings, and it was just too much for a recovering cult member. It sort of did me in. Anyway, I got fired. My wife left and went back to satellite videos, and now I'm on the streets. I think there's worse to come. Anth the des.des.des.destroyed. PS. Are you named after a French drink that tastes of aniseed?

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Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 22:43:21 (GMT) From: Richard Email: None To: AJW Subject: No, just lixdexic sometimes Message:

And don't worry about the homeless thing. It's just an illusion. You are really a butterfly dreaming you are homeless.

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Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 22:56:34 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: Richard Subject: No, just lixdexic sometimes Message:

Hi Richard, No, I'm not really homeless at all. There were a couple of weeks last year when we were moving, when we actually had three flats, but we're back down to one now, which we leave in a few weeks. By the way, did you hear about the lixdexic agnostic insomniac? Lay awake at night wondering if there was such a thing as a Dog. Hant

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 03:55:30 (GMT) From: Cynthia Email: None To: AJW Subject: ^^^LOLOLOL^^^HILARITY UNBOUND^^^(nt) Message:

nt

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Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 21:50:32 (GMT) From: Pat Conlon Email: None To: Richard Subject: Revised EV Glossary Message:

For new posters who left before the cult became a church: Premie is now PWK Agya is now synchronization Service is now participation Lord of the Universe is now inspirational teacher Satsang is now non-existent Surrender is now gratitude Meditation is now practice Any I didn't think of?

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 05:55:31 (GMT) From: Pat Conlon Email: None To: all Subject: Revised EV Glossary Contd. Message:

''Bowly Shriek Satgurudev Maharaj Ki Jai'' is now ''totally awesome'' ''Jay snatched with abandon'' is now ''it's soooo cooool'' ''You're in your mind'' is now ''you aren't synchronized'' or more politely ''isn't that a concept?'' ''The most perfect and supreme Knowledge of God'' is now ''that feeling'' ''The Divine Light of God'' ''The Heavenly Music of the Eternal Spheres'' ''The Scared Holy Name of God'' and ''Divine Blissful Nectar'' are now 1,2,3, and 4 ''Prachar'' is now ''Introductory Propagation Packages'' ''Charanamrit'' - ''what's THAT? Never been anything like that since 1971'' ''Darshan'' is now ''pick up yur donation envelopes before paying your respects'' ''The ultimate Truth'' is now ''the possibility of Knowledge'' ''Being initiated into the divine secret of the Living Almighty Creator within'' is now ''Auto-Knowledge'' ''Community'' is now ''satellite dish'' ''Lila'' is now ''evolution'' ''Give me your love and I will give you peace'' is now ''Give me a piece of your ass and maybe I'll remember your name in the morning''

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 03:58:50 (GMT) From: Cynthia Email: None To: Pat Conlon Subject: ''Participation = Dollars, US Please'' (nt) :)) Message:

nt

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 05:29:32 (GMT) From: G Email: None To: Cynthia Subject: Participation = part with those dollars $( Message:

'Participation' = give my part of your money

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 04:32:26 (GMT) From: Pat Conlon Email: None To: Cynthia Subject: ''Precious'' = Divine (NT) Message:

j

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Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 22:42:12 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: Pat Conlon Subject: You forgot... Message:

Elan Vital- nothing, no way, anyhow, in any dimension, anything to do with Divine Light Mission, ever. Anteeneightyfour

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Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 22:04:26 (GMT) From: Dermot Email: None To: Pat Conlon Subject: Revised EV Glossary Message:

Truth is now LIES Conciousness is now MENTAL REPRESSION Bliss is now SMUG SATISFACTION ......who'd have thought it eh?

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Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 22:44:53 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: Dermot Subject: But as a recent Ex found out... Message:

Agya is still agya. Right premies? Anthony Monmat

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Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 21:50:07 (GMT) From: Dermot Email: None To: Richard Subject: Cheers Richard.You missed out FOFOFOFOFOFOFOFOG nt Message:

zz

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Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 22:52:25 (GMT) From: Richard Email: None To: Dermot Subject: FOFOFOFOFOFOFOFOG = Six devotees of separation /nt Message:

66666666

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Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 19:01:43 (GMT) From: Mistress Thelma Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Sunday morning comic Message:

The Thunderstealing Bitch Sits on Rawat's Face

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Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 19:21:37 (GMT) From: Sir Dave Email: None To: Mistress Thelma Subject: Sunday morning comic Message:

That could be another one for And It Is Divine, although we'll have to see if it gets past the censors first.

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Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 19:36:09 (GMT) From: Pat Conlon Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: Sir Dave, please, pretty please Message:

How do you get your links to open in a new window? Every time I use the 'target' command the FV software wipes it out.

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 00:45:17 (GMT) From: Sir Dave Email: None To: Pat Conlon Subject: Sir Dave, please, pretty please Message:

It's easy. Just put target=top straight after the quotes at the end of the URL and before the closing tag, with no spaces of course. Let's just check if that's right. What people think about Maharaji The above link will open in a new window.

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 02:00:24 (GMT) From: Pat Conlon Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: Sir Dave, thanks kind sir NT Message:

l

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Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 19:19:06 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: Mistress Thelma Subject: Now *that* is trusting the master Message:

Weren't you afraid the little wanker would drop you? You'd be fun to go on vacation with

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Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 19:51:53 (GMT) From: Thelma Email: None To: Selene Subject: Throw me off? You're kidding, Selene! Message:

I'm known as ''Thunder Thighs'' in the red light district of San Francisco.

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Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 19:14:54 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Mistress Thelma Subject: I don't think you can have nipples on the forum Message:

I'm not sure if you're allowed nipples .... Hey -- kidding!

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Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 19:53:28 (GMT) From: Thelma Email: None To: Jim Subject: I don't think you can have nipples on the forum Message:

except the Divine Nipples. I cleaned up the pic. You should have seen what I air-brushed out!

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Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 20:15:32 (GMT) From: Thelma Email: None To: Thelma Subject: Evolution - the Master is the Missing Link Message:

''...so you wonder about evolution. Well, I'll tell what the missing link is. The Master is the missing link.'' Maharaji, Durban, 1999. The Missing Link

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Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 18:44:24 (GMT) From: la-ex Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Irving Janis, on 'GroupThink'.... Message:

Another interesting definition, this time on GroupThink...(this doesn't have to apply to cults only, as we all know, but it it interesting...) GroupThink: 'Each member wants the approval of all the others, and this produces a strong tendency toward uniformity. No one wants to raise controversial issues, question weak arguments, or puncture unrealistic hopes. They sustain an illusion of invulnerability, marked by excessive optimism. They rationalize away any warnings and decline to reconsider past policy commitments that have brought them to their predicament. They take their own group's morality for granted and do not look carefully at the ethical consequences of their decisions. They assume that their enemies are too evil to warrant negotiation efforts, and too stupid or weak to stop whatever plans the group may devise. Each person censors his or her own doubts instead of voicing them.' OK, this could describe maharaji, as well as any number of cult leaders. Here's the riddle: Do you know what famous leader he was describing, and in regards to what issue and when? Winner gets free beer at next Latvian night...

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 02:20:40 (GMT) From: janet Email: None To: la-ex Subject: john fitzgerald kennedy--with vigah Message:

clinton's hero

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 04:57:10 (GMT) From: la-ex Email: None To: janet Subject: And the final answer is... Message:

JFK's advisory group during the Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba in 1961. Janis described it as a political fiasco that was a classic case of 'groupthink' that led to faulty decision making. Janet,that beer is waiting for you... La

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Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 19:00:30 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: la-ex Subject: Hm, sounds like NASA to me Message:

Well LAX, That paragraph could only be about one group, really: NASA. Hell, fella, that was easy. I'll have a rusty nail, please.

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 00:48:39 (GMT) From: la-ex Email: None To: Jim Subject: Hm, sounds like NASA to me.Nope,guess again nt Message:

nt

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 01:17:42 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: la-ex Subject: Of course I'm right. This contest is rigged Message:

Just goes to show you how right they are when they say you can't trust anything on the internet.

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 01:28:00 (GMT) From: moldy warp Email: None To: Jim Subject: No you're not. It's Adolf with moustache, nt Message:

X

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 01:34:46 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: moldy warp Subject: That's what I said, isn't it? Look, I win! (nt) Message:

ggggggg

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 01:43:39 (GMT) From: la-ex Email: None To: Jim Subject: Nope,nope,nope...No winners yet...nt Message:

nt

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 01:41:43 (GMT) From: moldy warp Email: None To: Jim Subject: No you don't. You don't spell NAZI like that! (nt) Message:

X

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 01:51:09 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: moldy warp Subject: Well that's how you say it in Alabama, looser (nt) Message:

gggggg

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 01:56:58 (GMT) From: moldy warp Email: None To: Jim Subject: Didn't realise FV posts need to be translated into Message:

Alabama-eeze. Grovelling apologies for my ignorance... I am full of the ignorance of this world Oh Lord. Only you can save me.

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 01:45:09 (GMT) From: moldy warp Email: None To: la-ex Subject: la-ex where are you. You've done a runner Message:

so you don't have to buy me a beer!

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 01:51:10 (GMT) From: moldy warp Email: None To: la-ex Subject: OK. I'd changed my mind anyway. Its Margaret Thatc Message:

her about to be booted out of office. No. on third thoughts its the Dalai Lama and followers about to be booted out of Tibet. No. on fourth thoughts its those lot in Troy about to be killed off by Trojan horse. (well I want a beer for effort)

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 02:04:56 (GMT) From: janet Email: None To: moldy warp Subject: the democratic party? the US government? Message:

am I close?

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 02:12:26 (GMT) From: la-ex Email: None To: janet Subject: Janet-close, but no cigar(hint.......his hero)nt Message:

nt

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 02:19:43 (GMT) From: Pat Conlon Email: None To: la-ex Subject: You gave it away, Ex-Lax Message:

Hilly's Billy

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Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 15:02:17 (GMT) From: Bryn Email: Bryndaviesesq@hotmail.com To: Everyone Subject: Michael Donner, Waldorf, Steiner. Message:

Dear Michael Donner, You don't know me, but your name used to have a numinous ring to me back in the depths. I notice you have mentioned the Waldorf movement three(?)times, and the fact that you are 'on the board' at your local school. My kids went to a Steiner school. After an initial period of arrogance(I was a premie) I read some of Steiner's insights on esoteric development.('knowlege'). That was 15 years ago. Steiner is almost impenetrable, and hard work. Unfortunately I have to say he helped me crack the 'knowlege Ju-Ju' nut. I could not have developed the neccessary intellectual/psychic framework to untangle the 'K' experiences without him.(he's long dead folks, and I'm not his devotee, student or literery agent) Maharaji and his exponents thrive on imprecision in the realm of inner experience. They supply a quick authority to fill the gap. Myself I am plodding methodically over the experiences of 'k' with a fine tooth comb, to find out what I have got and haven't got. Steiner's good if you are patient. Thank you Michael for letting me use you as a soap box. love Bryn

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 09:15:09 (GMT) From: Toby Email: None To: Bryn Subject: Michael Donner, Waldorf, Steiner. Message:

High, the same with me, I have been reading a lot of Rudolf Steiner, and when I made weird experiences with knowledge and m. this was one of the most imortant things that helped me out. Yes it is hard work to read , but it strengthend some kind og 'inner muscles' and it it helped me to distinguish the different kinds of spiritual influence that came with m. So, for those that have had experiences of spiritual kind which might be rare , but this can nail your faith and believe to m., for those it is hard to find a way out, without finding a way to understand. toby

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 13:02:44 (GMT) From: Bryn Email: bryndaviesesq@hotmail.com To: Toby Subject: No understanding-no exit. Message:

I like your phrase: hard to find a way out without finding a way to understand. Definitely my experience. love Bryn.

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Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 10:00:35 (GMT) From: Pat Conlon Email: None To: Erika Subject: Erika, you seem like a well-adjusted PWK Message:

Erika I have been following your posts with bated breath because I felt that you were sincere and open. Then I read your answer to Bin Liner's question: ''When did you stop being a devotee?'' Perhaps your response sounded glib because you were answering an anonymous cipher and didn't feel as beholden or engaged as you would be by someone who has a regular name. I will give you the benefit of the doubt on that. But then I wonder why - because I know that when I post here it is for more than just the person to whom I am responding and I better be as real and honest with them as I am with everybody. I also must confess that alarm bells went off in my head when I read the phrase ''deepening my marriage.'' Why? Because it sounds so silly, just like the cliches used by the industrial strength church ladies in my community. You may not think that is important but to me it is very important. It is symptomatic of the silly, vapid, precious, groupthink ''new speak'' inside of the new non-cult church of Elan Vital. Then you said:''I went to see M and realized I didn't feel like a 'devotee' any more, in the old 70s-80s sense. So I took some time to reflect on that, and think about how and whether I wanted to still be in relationship with M.'' How much time? What relationship? Are you a personal friend of his? Maybe he knows YOUR name but he doesn't know the names of the far more sincere and trusting Indian premies in Durban where he recently said: ''I don't know your name and I don't want to know your name.'' That really takes the cake. That's pure church ladese or whatever you call the empty nothings that thoroughly modern PWKS spout to each other. You know and I know (yes I just got out of all that simple-minded, sly, secretive, gossipy, precious silliness 2 months ago) that's the way secretaries talk in the office not the way people who have the ''most precious gift of Knowledge'' which is the secret to contentment and self-knowledge. Some people are so passionate about finding the source of contentment and self-knowledge they would kill for it (as did an aspirant in my town - he killed himself in despair at being kept waiting for over a year to receive Knowledge.) They find that the level and depth (or lack of it) of real honest communication between PWKs the equivalent of office chitchat. I don't mean to come off souding harsh. I'm sorry. I just spent a year criticizing the church ladies (of both genders) in my town only to discover in the end that the church lady culture was being created right at the top. The fibbing and two-facedness and coyness and revisionism is a direct result of PWKs being secretly ashamed of and embarassed by Rev Rawat. Mr Rawat has created this partly out of incompetence and partly out of insouciance. Unlike many of his most vociferous detractors here, I don't believe that he is clever enough or capable enough to have DELIBERATELY done what he has done and is doing. To me, the man is stupid. Or as Joe would put it, ''Stupid all the way to the bank.'' He's also pretty irresponsible and silly. He's play-acting a fantasy of following his DEAD master's agya. Where's M's LIVING master. He doesn't need one and neither do I. So, Erika, I am not having a go at you. If you are anything like the PWKS that I know then you really are a good, decent, nice person who gets good vibes from M and K and I don't judge you one bit. I also got those good vibes from M and K. I still get good stuff from K and have always been an enthusiastic meditator which is why the PWKs tolerated me for so long. That and the fact that I was a very reliable and consistent cash cow. But I decided to examine what it would feel like to not cut Rev Rawat as much slack as I had been doing. In that instant that I withdrew myself from any emotional influence that he may have had over me, the good vibes disappeared and all I saw is what everybody else sees. No more bhakti yoga juju. No more guru-worship. No more master/student. Just another boring religion. And religion as we all know is simply business. There's no need for an agent between us and the ultimate truth. So fine if you like your church. That's great but that church was created on the back of an ugly dysfunctional cult. Maybe that's fine for you but I find it absolutely pathological inside a free, open and democratic society such as we live in to be hiding secrets about my preacher's past. It's an absolute embarassment to have to talk about a less than honest and responsible ''Master'' who will make you happy and set you free in the land of milk and honey. It's a Hindu religion with the typical Hindu lack of morals. And that's fine but I prefer agnostic Christianity myself without the intervention of churches or preachers. The music is better. Not even the most Neo-Hindu-Yanni-like subliminal instrumental-only Arti can compare with Brahms' ''Deutsche Requiem.'' You continued: ''Where I ended up was that I wanted M to be my teacher in the area of K. I felt he had always helped me focus on the possibility of my own internal joy, and I wanted to continue to take advantage of that.'' THE POSSIBILITY! Rawat's got you by the tail, Erika. That's his language. What's your language? Rawat used that phrase in Atlanta in December in the training thingy. Come on, sister, you may be able to pull the wool over the eyes of literal-minded simpletons like Jim or Joe but you're talking to a very streetwise and very old queen here darling. I can smell your act a mile away. CONTINUE TO TAKE ADVANTAGE? Is this stocks that you're investing in or immortality? Yep Rawat hints at that. You kow and so do I. And please forgive me if I have upset you. I promise that I won't do it if you answer me in your own words and not that precious church lady talk. Instead of asking, ''When did you stop being a devotee'' I'll ask, ''When did you become a church lady?''

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Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 22:17:04 (GMT) From: Erika Email: None To: Pat Conlon Subject: Erika, you seem like a well-adjusted PWK Message:

Pat, I apologize if my post to Bin Liner sounded glib. That wasn't my intention. I was trying to be as accurate as I knew how to be. As for my phrase 'deepening my marriage' sounding silly -- well, it's how it felt to me at the time, and I don't have any other better phrase to describe it. Over the course of a year, I fell in love, moved out of the shram, got married, got preganant, moved to a different part of the country and started a new job. Enormous changes over a short period of time, and in addition to learning to be a mom and building my career, I put a lot of energy into deepening my new marriage, because I didn't want it to become a casualty of those changes. As to whether I'm a church lady, I have to plead ignorance on that one. I'm not sure what it means. Based on your post, it sounds like you mean someone who is insincere, shallow and spouting the party line. I like to think that I'm not that and never will be. In terms of my language being M's, in the line from my post that you quoted, I doubt it, because I have never listened to the Atlanta thing and I wasn't there. Unless, of course, there's some psychic cult brainwave thing happening that I'm not aware of... Erika

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Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 23:22:24 (GMT) From: Pat Conlon Email: None To: Erika Subject: Erika, you are thoughtful, kind and caring Message:

I'm sorry if it sounded like I was criticizing you. I learned last year that PWKs are not to blame for the cult. I think you are a brave person to stick to posting here. And I took some really nasty cheap shots at you. Please forgive me. I think you really are sincere and thoughtful and also caring. Yes, church ladies are the insecure people spouting the party line and being so terribly frightfully synchronized darling. They are all so attached to M and so ashamed of him hence the EV revisionism and spin-doctoring. PWks are good people propping up an very naughty Hindu preacher from Hardwar.

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Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 23:34:30 (GMT) From: JHB Email: None To: Pat Conlon Subject: No she's not. Message:

Look, she's expecting some flaming, so who am I to deny her? Why doesn't she tell us why Arti is still played while Maharaji sits there grinning? John the lively after a nap after getting the logs in before the ground gets too soft.

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Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 23:48:37 (GMT) From: Pat Conlon Email: None To: JHB Subject: John, wanna switch roles? Message:

I'll be the BAD cop again.

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Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 23:54:42 (GMT) From: JHB Email: None To: Pat Conlon Subject: No, I've just bought these ..... Message:

.... new knuckle dusters and whips, and it would be a shame if I couldn't get to use them. BTW did I tell you about a week last Wednesday being in Real Madrid's Bernebeu Stadium's toilets, the Spanish Riot Police, and one officer's baton? John the big bruise on his left leg.

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Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 23:57:20 (GMT) From: Pat Conlon Email: None To: JHB Subject: John, is that a joke? Message:

Please tell me you were pulling my leg.

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 00:09:41 (GMT) From: JHB Email: None To: Pat Conlon Subject: No - but I was at fault (totally OT) Message:

At the risk of permanently damaging my reputation here, I'll post the mail I sent to the Leeds United list about this:- ------------------------------------------------------ At half time in Madrid, to my shame, I allowed myself to succumb to the temptation of using the basin in the gents for other than their intended purpose. The fact that many others were also similarly confusing the urinals and the basins does in no way excuse my actions. This was wrong, and thanks to the quick-witted and quick-handed action of the friendly baton weilding law enforcement officers, I have now learnt my lesson. I shall confine my beer reprocessing activities to the urinals in future. The bruise, which although impressive in size, does not cause me any pain, and again I thank the officer for his accuracy in not causing any broken bones or other long term damage. So my advice is, even if others around you are erring, only use the urinals for urination at football grounds. ------------------------------------------------------ I had one response saying that I deserved what I got, and then about a dozen responses saying that using the basins in this way was not only normal, but unavoidable at many football grounds due to the abysmal shortage of urinals at most toilets. John the football hooligan

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 00:32:58 (GMT) From: Pat Conlon Email: None To: JHB Subject: whew! For one minute there I thought you were Message:

cruising the tea-rooms (picking up men in toilets.) But the old Spaniards all piss in the streets. The cop must have thought you were a footers yobo from the UK.

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 00:40:26 (GMT) From: JHB Email: None To: Pat Conlon Subject: No - the prejudice was bad but not as.... Message:

...bad as I imagine gays receive. Being an English football supporter abroad is becoming difficult (although supporting Leeds abroad has been OK the last two years, apart from Istanbul where I wouldn't go), but if you keep out of the obvious drinking places, the locals are friendly. John who'll be in Milan if Leeds get thru to the final.

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 00:45:01 (GMT) From: Pat Conlon Email: None To: JHB Subject: Fuck footers in Milan, John, and buy a ticket to Message:

SAN FRANCISCO LATVIAN NIGHT! It wouldn't be a real Latvian Night without you.

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 00:46:29 (GMT) From: JHB Email: None To: Pat Conlon Subject: What's the date? (nt) Message:

Don't think I can make it tho:-(

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 02:04:45 (GMT) From: Pat Conlon Email: pdconlon@yahoo.com To: JHB Subject: What's the date? Tentatively Message:

June 2nd but I just talked to Jim and we may change it to accomodate him. Also it may be turning into such a huge gathering that we may postpone till Sept. More people have already pre-registered than have for Amaroo.

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 02:08:56 (GMT) From: Katie Email: None To: Pat Conlon Subject: Make it May or early June Message:

and we might show up - we are probably coming to the NorthWest Coast then. (It has to be at a time when school - primary or secondary - is in session. Plane fares are a lot cheaper.) You can always have two :). Or I'll just go out to dinner with JW and won't meet any of the rest of you. BTW, we've had some great East Coast gatherings in the Mid-Atlantic Area (mostly DC), if anyone is interested. Don't think we drink as much as those Latvians in London though.

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 02:16:53 (GMT) From: Pat Conlon Email: pdconlon@yahoo.com To: Katie Subject: Make it May or early June Message:

How about May 18th? We need to start planning now in that case. JW will hopefully bring you to dinner at a certain restaurant which I am reluctant to mention here. If you don't know what I mean I'll email you. Although I think I sent Brian the url.

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 13:14:27 (GMT) From: Marianne Email: delores@gofree.indigo.ie To: Pat Conlon Subject: Hold on there about changing the date Message:

Lots of others have been depending on June 2, and may have made airline reservations already. Please discuss offline before you change the date. Thanks, Marianne

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 20:49:08 (GMT) From: Pat Conlon Email: None To: Marianne Subject: Marianne, we'll stick with the original date Message:

Saturday, June the 2nd 6pm. Pre-registration is now being accepted. Seating is limited so be sure to make your reservations now. :)

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 20:56:18 (GMT) From: Marianne Email: delores@gofree.indigo.ie To: Pat Conlon Subject: Reservations to me, please Message:

The Satanic Priestess of EPO takes the reservations. Please forward to me if you haven't already. We regretfully inform the EV monitors there will be no room for spies. Marianne, SP/EPO

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 02:20:00 (GMT) From: Katie Email: None To: Pat Conlon Subject: Make it May or early June Message:

I do know what you mean, and I will talk to Brian about it. It depends on how convenient it is for us to get from the NW to there (we may just have to have a concurrent NW Latvian night). BTW, monitors, we'll make sure someone is taking care of the site and forum!!! (Not forgetting what happened to J-M last year!)

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 02:31:21 (GMT) From: Katie Email: None To: Pat Subject: P.S. Pat - hope there's a place to 'step outside' Message:

if Jim is gonna be coming. Just kidding! I promise to act like a lady...

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 02:50:40 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Katie Subject: So long as I don't have to act like a lady too (nt Message:

fffffff

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 02:52:25 (GMT) From: Katie Email: None To: Jim Subject: It might be an improvement Jim :) (nt) Message:

notice all-important emoticon!

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 02:55:52 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Katie Subject: Did you see that? See what she does everyone?? Message:

I know what you're all about, Katie. I just can't remember right now. But I will. Trust me. :)

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 02:46:07 (GMT) From: Pat Conlon Email: None To: Katie Subject: P.S. Katie H Message:

Well this old flower child is just loving the love-fest on FV and all the air kisses you and Jim are blowing each other. Pat, the dispeller of snakes and lover of a good party.

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 02:49:18 (GMT) From: Katie H. Email: None To: Pat Conlon Subject: P.S. Katie H Message:

Jim and I go back a long way (my joke is that he is my ex-husband, although I can't remember being married to him.) Anyway, it ain't no cult here - obviously!

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 03:06:40 (GMT) From: Pat Conlon Email: None To: Katie H. Subject: EPO's so uncultivated Message:

Just trying to pick a fight with JIm since he hates puns.

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Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 18:49:05 (GMT) From: Bob Dylan,to Erika... Email: None To: Pat Conlon Subject: 'How many deals must a satguru break, before we... Message:

call him a fraud?' 'Oh yes, and how many... Honey, I could go on and on, but I'll leave that to Larkin for the lyrics... Warmly,and in the music, Bob

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Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 14:47:45 (GMT) From: Tim G Email: \ To: Pat Conlon + Erica Subject: the inevitable dead end of Masters Message:

Welcome Erica and Hi Pat Apart from the obvious and maybe understandable ferociousness of your posting Pat I think your points are spot on. You point out that we need no intermediary between 'Truth' and ourselves. Really, anything else is foolishness and exploitive. Who but ourselves can read the book of our lives...how we relate how we think how we act, react and so on. An intermediary means that we are prepared to remove the focus and responsibility from ourselves and thence find a cosy escape from what actually is taking place and without seeing that we are starting from a place of unreality and inviting the pursuit of an ideal or to put it another way 'what could be rather than what is'. Surely we must start by being present and no one else can do that for us. The idea of a master was really very liberating for me and seemed to be a way to subjugate or eradicate my negative 'mind'. But it led to yet another layer of the onion namely the self wanting another result and ultimately no different than the desire to visit a brothel or do well in business (neither of which I have achieved as yet BTW) Love Tim

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Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 17:48:21 (GMT) From: Pat Conlon Email: None To: Tim G Subject: the inevitable dead end of boring religions Message:

Maharajism is just another religion and the Master just another sleazy, incompetent preacher. This the way the Lord of the Universe ended: ''Not with a bang but a whimper.''

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Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 20:29:04 (GMT) From: Katie H. Email: None To: Pat Conlon Subject: Pat, that was my final 'drip'! Message:

You wrote: Maharajism is just another religion and the Master just another sleazy, incompetent preacher. Leaving out the 'sleazy, incompetent' part, because I didn't think that back then, that's what finally gave me the courage to leave. I had gone back to college, and in my first semester, I took a history class that dealt with the Reformation. We learned about Martin Luther, and his theses, and so forth - and I was amazed at how truly inspired he was at the time. But I was a former Protestant, and I'd seen what happened to all that inspiration (the Protestant churches can be VERY boring). My mind made the intuitive connection to Maharaji and what was then DLM (I swear it really was like a lightning bolt of realization!), and I realized that the same thing was going to happen to M and his organization. Doesn't sound like much now, but it was truly liberating at the time. I remember sitting in class feeling like I'd been let out of jail. My actual visual image was of following a long dark tunnel that had become narrower and darker until I couldn't walk upright anymore, and then lifting my head up and breaking through into the light (just the light of the sun, which is good enough for me.) Take care, Katie Struck down by the light in history class:)

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Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 20:36:58 (GMT) From: Pat Conlon Email: None To: Katie H. Subject: Katie, that was my final 'drip'! Message:

While you were responding to this I was responding to your ''Teacher Analogy'' thingy to Erika. Great minds think alike. Unfortunately it took me longer than you to realize that it was basically Hinduism, an amoral and solipsistic religion.

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Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 21:03:58 (GMT) From: Dickie Email: None To: Pat Conlon Subject: Pat was struck dumb on the road to d' Castro /nt Message:

nt

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Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 21:22:18 (GMT) From: Connie Email: None To: Dickie Subject: Pat struck dumb, that's an oxymoron! nt Message:

ha ha

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Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 21:35:17 (GMT) From: Pat Conlon Email: None To: Connie Subject: Thanks, Connie. I knew you would stick up for Message:

little old me, the former synchronized and humble church lady.

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Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 11:15:19 (GMT) From: Katie Darling Email: None To: Pat Conlon Subject: Pat - you lost me on the music thing Message:

Hi Pat - we're up in the wee hours ain't we? You lost me here: 'The music is better. Not even the most Neo-Hindu-Yanni-like subliminal instrumental-only Arti can compare with Brahms' ''Deutsche Requiem.'' Well, premie Indian music may not be the greatest, but Indian classical music is way up there on my list of reasons to stay in a sometimes-achey body. And Brahms is okay but I couldn't really say that Western music is superior - unless of course you were talking about Bach's B-Minor Mass, which really gives me 'that' experience. Do you ever go the American Bach Soloists in SFo? Hey Erika, what do you think about these IMPORTANT issues?

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Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 17:44:14 (GMT) From: Pat Conlon Email: None To: Katie Darling Subject: Katie D, the music thing was a cheap shot Message:

I think Thelma must have raised her snobbish head for a moment. Yes, I too enjoy classical Indian music for about 15 minutes. It's better than Country and Western but is infantile compared with western polyphonic orchestral composition. But I guess, ''De gustibus non est disputandum.''

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Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 11:37:25 (GMT) From: Katie Darling Email: None To: Katie Darling Subject: Erika: a question about deal-breakers Message:

Hi again. You wrote: 'Now, there are things that would have been deal-breakers for me as far as studying with that teacher was concerned, and there are certainly things that would be deal-breakers for me with M. I understand that for many people on this board, the deal-breaker showed up long ago. 'Now, there are things that would have been deal-breakers for me as far as studying with that teacher was concerned, and there are certainly things that would be deal-breakers for me with M. I understand that for many people on this board, the deal-breaker showed up long ago.' What would be a deal-breaker for you? Much love

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Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 22:25:49 (GMT) From: Erika Email: None To: Katie Darling Subject: Erika: a question about deal-breakers Message:

Katie, If you don't mind, I'd rather keep that private. I think you'll understand that if I state my terms with M out loud, I believe I'd have twenty or thirty folks here immediately jumping on me saying something like 'WHAT? Are you kidding, he's already done that a million times, he's been doing it for years; you're just a blind, culty, apologist for the guru!' Which, as you can imagine, would not be helpfful to me in my process of understnading. And, as to the truly important questions about music; I enjoy Indian classic music, but like Pat my appreciation is time-limited. My all time favorite piece of music is Mozart's Requiem, followed closely by Bartok's Concerto for Orchestra, then the Bach Cello Suites (played by Rostropovich vs. Yoyo Ma), and then.... Love, Erika

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Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 01:12:44 (GMT) From: Monmot Email: None To: Erika Subject: Bingo on Mozart's Requiem Message:

Erika: I agree with you totally (said in Valley-speak tones) about Mozart's Requiem. Incredible piece of music. When my father was dying, I would drive the back roads with the windows down blasting Mozart's Requiem over and over for hours. Have I said how incredible that piece of music is? 8-> Take care

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Date: Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 23:46:56 (GMT) From: Pat Conlon Email: None To: Erika Subject: Erika: I KNEW IT!!! Message:

You're mensch, darling. I just want to add this quickly. Don't you think it's sad that we have been waiting for M to ''evolve'' that is grow up and behave? You're light years ahead of him. He's very naughty. I'm sure you'd make a better mistress than he is a master. And you'd probably teach meditation more responsibly too. Once you start seeing that beauty is in the eye of the beholder and that you are seeing him through a veil of emotional attachment you will realize that you are far more evolved than he is. It's just another religion and yes K is great - wouldn't trade it for anything but it also needs to be combined with menatl health and morality to be of any true use to human beings.

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