Forum V: Archive
Compiled: Sun, Mar 25, 2001 at 10:51:45 (GMT)
From: Mar 18, 2001 To: Mar 24, 2001 Page: 2 Of: 5


Joe -:- The Hindu Wobble Dance -- Abi is Hysterical -:- Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 00:54:25 (GMT)
__ DV -:- I have a video of the Hindu Wobble Dance, if -:- Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 02:21:58 (GMT)
__ __ Katie H. -:- I have a video of the Hindu Wobble Dance, if -:- Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 02:31:30 (GMT)

Joe -:- Maharaji as a Teacher -- Katie H. from Inactive -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 21:17:40 (GMT)
__ Katie Darling -:- The perpetual teacher -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 21:47:08 (GMT)
__ __ cerise -:- Bubba Free Avatar Adi Da Samraj Sandwich -:- Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 13:40:11 (GMT)
__ __ Katie H. -:- Too funny, Katie D. -:- Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 02:24:04 (GMT)
__ __ Thelma -:- The perpetual teacher - I come again and again -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 22:59:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ Joy -:- Uh, Excuse Me, Thelma . . . -:- Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 02:02:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Thelma -:- Joy, she think she be -:- Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 02:27:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ Bryn -:- The perpetual teacher - I come again and again -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 23:25:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ cq -:- funny!!! LOL (nt) -:- Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 18:40:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Thelma -:- The only way he'd let go of your balls, Bryn -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 23:29:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Bryn -:- It's Ok,they're safe. I found a way! -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 23:34:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Thelma -:- Hang on to your huevos duras, Bryn NT -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 23:40:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Dickie Pwickie -:- But once those 'obstacles' are removed ... -:- Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 19:56:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Luke Pewk -:- Dickie, I know our voices area squeaky now but -:- Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 20:13:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Dickie Pwickie -:- Luke, I always knew you were a nutless wonder /nt -:- Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 21:15:07 (GMT)

G -:- Amaroo update -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 19:48:49 (GMT)
__ Nigel -:- Have they got a chef, yet? -:- Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 01:04:56 (GMT)
__ Sir Dave -:- Amaroo update -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 20:41:53 (GMT)
__ JHB -:- Amaroo update -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 20:40:31 (GMT)
__ __ woolfy -:- Amaroo update -:- Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 09:57:17 (GMT)
__ __ G -:- all for his ego -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 21:51:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ Sir Dave -:- No, you've got it wrong -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 23:16:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ salam -:- No, you've got it wrong -:- Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 09:55:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Bin Liner -:- Yes , you've got it right ..belch nt -:- Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 01:38:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ G -:- 'delegate' -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 23:19:21 (GMT)

Katie H. -:- To Scott C. from inactive -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 19:31:07 (GMT)
__ Richard -:- Sacred Cows -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 20:12:09 (GMT)
__ __ Katie H. -:- Sacred Cows -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 21:36:43 (GMT)
__ Scott C. -:- To Scott C. from inactive -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 20:09:24 (GMT)
__ __ Lesley -:- To Scott C. an appropriate place -:- Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 21:40:35 (GMT)
__ __ Bin Liner -:- How much piss have you drunk Scott ? -:- Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 02:54:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ scott -:- How much piss have you drunk Scott ? -:- Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 03:33:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Bin Liner -:- You are a lucky fucker , because if you'd -:- Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 03:48:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Scott , Bin wouldn't be this rude if he were face -:- Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 03:04:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ cerise -:- cool Pat - quite agree -:- Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 13:56:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ scott -:- Scott , Bin wouldn't be this rude if he were face -:- Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 03:47:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Scott , thanks and sorry Bin NT -:- Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 03:49:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Katie H. -:- Bin is not anonymous -:- Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 03:11:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Bin Liner -:- Love you Katie H . Pat Dorrity. nt -:- Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 03:19:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Katie H. -:- Thanks, Bin - love the pseudonym... -:- Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 06:05:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Trash Bag -:- Hi Bin from your American cousin! (nt) -:- Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 05:12:57 (GMT)
__ __ Katie H. -:- To Scott C. from inactive -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 21:03:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ scott -:- To Scott C. from inactive -:- Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 02:33:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Katie H. -:- that's OK, scott C. -:- Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 02:37:48 (GMT)
__ __ Joe -:- To Scott C. from inactive -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 21:01:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ Katie H. -:- To Scott C. from inactive -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 21:21:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Katie Darling -:- Hi Scott -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 22:56:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ la-ex -:- Hi Scott+Katie-I totally agree, would love to be a -:- Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 17:02:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- Katie D and La-Ex -:- Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 17:59:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ la-ex -:- Yes Joe,I do, and I think it's a good idea too... -:- Thurs, Mar 22, 2001 at 04:01:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ la-ex -:- it doesn't have to be a forum type of format... -:- Thurs, Mar 22, 2001 at 04:12:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ scott -:- Hi Scott -:- Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 02:23:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Katie Darling -:- Hi Scott -:- Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 16:19:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Katie H. -:- Hi Katie - some of this does happen already -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 23:15:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Katie Darling -:- Hi Katie - some of this does happen already -:- Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 01:52:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- Hi Katie - some of this does happen already -:- Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 18:03:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie Darling -:- Joe, well... -:- Thurs, Mar 22, 2001 at 02:43:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie Darling -:- Joe, one more thing -:- Thurs, Mar 22, 2001 at 02:48:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie H. -:- Hi Katie - some of this does happen already -:- Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 02:15:16 (GMT)

cq -:- in the realm of out-to-lunches -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 19:25:46 (GMT)
__ Pat Conlon -:- Chris, I also got that in my email but it had this -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 22:51:44 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- 'ask for the gift of gratitude'??? Infinite loop! -:- Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 17:38:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- Great point! (nt) -:- Thurs, Mar 22, 2001 at 00:53:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ donner -:- 'ask for the gift of gratitude'??? Infinite loop! -:- Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 19:09:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- This am's email from church lady -:- Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 20:17:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Francesca -:- The church ladies will scare you into being -:- Thurs, Mar 22, 2001 at 04:46:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Are you pulling my leg, Francesca? -:- Thurs, Mar 22, 2001 at 09:54:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Francesca -:- Are you pulling my leg, Francesca? -:- Thurs, Mar 22, 2001 at 17:24:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ cq -:- Gift? What gift? -:- Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 21:04:09 (GMT)

Way -:- The San Franciscans on Then and Now? -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 19:16:57 (GMT)
__ Pat Conlon -:- The San Franciscans on Then and Now, Way -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 20:05:39 (GMT)
__ __ Way -:- Thanks -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 20:22:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Way, I thought you had a husband -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 22:40:20 (GMT)
__ Way -:- Then and Now link -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 20:01:18 (GMT)

Susan -:- Question for Dettmers, Donner or anyone else who -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 17:54:19 (GMT)
__ Michael Dettmers -:- Question for Dettmers, Donner or anyone else who -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 21:33:03 (GMT)
__ __ suchabanana -:- dunrite/dunwrong. Poor Geof (and Kim)... also!... -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 23:40:18 (GMT)
__ donner -:- Question for Dettmers, Donner or anyone else who -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 18:07:10 (GMT)
__ __ such -:- Imagine swirled peas!AA:m and 10,000 co-dependents -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 23:50:34 (GMT)
__ __ Joe -:- Very interesting -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 19:05:06 (GMT)
__ __ Katie Darling -:- The codependent dance and larf potential -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 18:26:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ cq -:- M's excuse that (to him) justifies the whole trip -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 20:09:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Abi -:- Story of O -:- Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 02:35:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Way -:- Rawat's self-delusion -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 22:43:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ cq -:- Rawat's self-delusion -:- Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 19:50:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Francesca -:- Whoa -- did you see this part -:- Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 00:50:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Steve Quint -:- Rawat's self-delusion -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 23:20:35 (GMT)

Berni -:- Greetings to you sane ppl from an old newbee -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 11:43:55 (GMT)
__ Pat Conlon -:- Greetings, Berni and welcome back -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 20:12:49 (GMT)
__ __ berni -:- Thanks for the Welcome -:- Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 11:54:41 (GMT)
__ Richard -:- Greetings Berni and welcome -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 19:35:33 (GMT)
__ Francesca -:- A lot of great people are/were pewks -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 17:12:38 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- Siren on the rocks you say ? ? ? ? -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 20:46:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ Francesca -:- Siren on the rocks in reverse dear! n/t -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 22:38:55 (GMT)
__ __ JHB -:- People with Knowledge -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 17:25:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ Francesca -:- Thanks for clarifying -- yes I forgot PC! n/t -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 18:41:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ berni -:- The state of Cognac -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 19:31:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- They're PWKs in west and still Premies -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 20:18:37 (GMT)

janet -:- oh CatWeasel-------?????yoo hoo---! -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 09:31:39 (GMT)
__ Nigel -:- My take on Catweasel -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 15:51:21 (GMT)
__ __ Jerry -:- My take on Catweasel -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 18:49:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ Nigel -:- My take on Catweasel -:- Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 00:49:01 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- See mine below to Patrick C. -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 16:12:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- State of cognac? Perhaps another alcoholic -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 23:27:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ ''You know who'' -:- State of cognac? Perhaps another alcoholic FUCK YO -:- Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 02:09:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- Maybe too close for comfort? -:- Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 03:45:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ such -:- perhaps just imbibed too much 'con yack'? (nt -:- Thurs, Mar 22, 2001 at 05:43:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Sorry, Nige - just imagining Rawat as crusty troll -:- Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 20:20:40 (GMT)
__ __ Nigel -:- And Catweasel's reply: -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 15:52:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jerry -:- I rest my case -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 18:54:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Nigel -:- I rest my case -:- Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 01:27:05 (GMT)
__ salam -:- what you don't understand janet is -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 12:51:01 (GMT)
__ Cw -:- And I eat all the green Jelly Beans?(nt) -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 10:30:54 (GMT)
__ __ Deputy Dog -:- Come on Cat! Answer a few questions! -:- Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 03:32:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ Pussy Cat , Pussycat, (CW -:- Your Delicious and all my wishes would all come t -:- Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 13:35:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Look at what you've become, Cat -:- Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 17:22:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ CW -:- Look at what you've become, jim -:- Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 21:38:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ The ArchAngel CATWEASEL -:- Look at what you've become, jim -:- Thurs, Mar 22, 2001 at 04:49:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Hey, maybe Cat's right. Anyone got an opinion? -:- Thurs, Mar 22, 2001 at 04:27:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Maybe Cat's right. Anyone got an opinion? Yes! -:- Thurs, Mar 22, 2001 at 10:01:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- It's the principle, not the specifics of 1 case... -:- Thurs, Mar 22, 2001 at 13:28:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ CW -:- It's the principle, not the specifics of 1 case... -:- Thurs, Mar 22, 2001 at 17:35:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- It's the principle, not the specifics of 1 case... -:- Thurs, Mar 22, 2001 at 19:09:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ CW -:- It's the principle, not the specifics of 1 case... -:- Fri, Mar 23, 2001 at 01:41:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ such -:- well,are you?If so,he made a point.Otherwise,No... -:- Thurs, Mar 22, 2001 at 05:12:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ New-Age Redneck -:- Which Nation? -:- Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 15:44:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Cheyene(nt) -:- Which Nation? -:- Thurs, Mar 22, 2001 at 02:08:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ CW -:- Which Nation? -:- Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 21:28:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Victoria, sweetie dahling, are you a masochist? -:- Thurs, Mar 22, 2001 at 01:40:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ CW -:- Victoria, sweetie dahling, are you a masochist? -:- Thurs, Mar 22, 2001 at 02:05:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Victoria, sweetie dahling, promise? NT -:- Thurs, Mar 22, 2001 at 02:12:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ Katie -:- Go, Dog, Go! -:- Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 06:23:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ janet -:- i bow to you dog. you have graduated to manhood! -:- Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 04:53:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Cat and Dog fight! Well said Dog -:- Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 04:29:44 (GMT)

Francesca -:- Some new guru graphic art -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 06:44:08 (GMT)
__ TD -:- Question: Who's Rod McKuen? (nt) -:- Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 05:48:23 (GMT)
__ __ Joe -:- God, you are a child ::)) -:- Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 05:54:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ Katie -:- I agree - about the wonderful part anyway. -:- Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 06:07:21 (GMT)
__ Joe -:- Frannie, were you this funny in the cult? -:- Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 00:44:55 (GMT)
__ __ Pat Conlon -:- Frannie, were you this funny in the cult? Yes, Joe -:- Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 02:45:07 (GMT)
__ suchabanana -:- yer mirth doth warm me 2 ze cockles(genus Cardium) -:- Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 00:34:59 (GMT)
__ __ Francesca -:- Juicy lentils y'all -:- Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 03:11:06 (GMT)
__ Susan -:- that was GREAT!!!!! -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 16:39:27 (GMT)
__ __ Francesca -:- SNL -- good one! n/t -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 17:13:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ Joe -:- Technical question (ot) -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 17:35:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Susan -:- click on Forum Help at the bottom -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 17:56:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- Thanks, Susan -- should have looked there (nt) -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 18:44:32 (GMT)
__ Way -:- Francesca, please email re Pat Halley (nt) -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 14:47:16 (GMT)
__ old fink -:- Some new guru graphic art -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 07:52:09 (GMT)
__ __ Francesca -:- hit the 'up' arrow on the pop-up box -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 14:29:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ janet -:- it needs a table in html to separate parts. -:- Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 05:18:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Francesca -:- Thanks, for when I have time -- I've never -:- Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 18:56:27 (GMT)
__ Richard -:- A career in advertising you could of had -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 07:00:44 (GMT)
__ __ Pat Conlon -:- So elegant, Fran? But you better change -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 10:03:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ Francesca -:- Changed it to Master Cad, thanx n/t -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 14:30:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Master Cad - Perfect! NT -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 20:20:26 (GMT)
__ __ Francesca -:- Can't wait!!! (Just WALK!) n/t -:- Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 07:34:38 (GMT)


Date: Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 00:54:25 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: The Hindu Wobble Dance -- Abi is Hysterical
Message:
I don't know if people are following the thread down below, but Abi and Susan are saying some priceless things about the cult form the view of kids and young teenagers. This one from Abi really cracked me up:

I think I was about 14. I always felt slightly ashamed when everyone would fling themselves about when he got dressed up. My mother was always saying 'oh Abi, just get up and dance with us all, it's wonderful!'. But I never did. I don't know how old I was when I first saw the Lard do his Hindu wobble dance, you know the one where he'd sort of stomp about and lift his arms up and down and sort of flap his hands. I didn't know what was going on but I thought, I really did, that he was giving everyone the fingers. I guess, retrospectively, that he was in a way.

I can just see it. I think 'Hindu Wobble Dance' needs to be added to the Dictionary of EOP Terms.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 02:21:58 (GMT)
From: DV
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: I have a video of the Hindu Wobble Dance, if
Message:
anyone's interested. Would be cool to mpeg it onto one of these sites.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 02:31:30 (GMT)
From: Katie H.
Email: None
To: DV
Subject: I have a video of the Hindu Wobble Dance, if
Message:
I would love to see it, DV (I never got to see it in person!). Barry Shaw (Bazza) is putting together some mpeg stuff - I know you know his e-mail address, so maybe you and he can get together on this.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 21:17:40 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Maharaji as a Teacher -- Katie H. from Inactive
Message:
I was going through the inactive, and found this really interesting post from Katie about Maharaji as teacher. She is responding to post from Erika. I thought the comments were really good, and deserved a thread.

Here is Katie's post:

Hi again, Erika -

To preface this, I want to say that I hope you don't feel like you're on the witness stand here - you have gotten a LOT of responses and further questions.
You wrote above:

Since the friend metaphor didn't make sense to you and others, let me use an example of the relationship of student and teacher. My favorite teacher in college was a very strange guy, who lived really unconventional and some might say morally questionable life. Some people hated him, for these and other reasons, and didn't want to be in his classes. I felt I had a lot to learn from him and decided to study with him anyway.

I disagree with this analogy on two points. First, I think that a teacher's personal life IS relevant depending on WHAT they are teaching. My major prof. in college was a very devout born-again Christian. However, the subject area was soil science - specifically soil formation, and since he did not believe in Creationism (which would have been a deal-breaker for me, for sure!), we got along fine, and I learned a lot from him.

You wrote re M:
My relationship with M, though it's profoundly different than it used to be, is still important. He's my teacher in the deep experience of my interior life.

I would be somewhat averse to having a person with a questionable personal life as a teacher of 'the deep experience of my interior life'. I know this wouldn't bother everyone - and I have also heard the saying about 'those who can't do, teach'. I have had some therapists and counselors who were pretty weird, and I did learn some things about myself, and about my 'interior life' from them, but had to take many other things they said with a grain of salt, and to move on when I felt that I could learn nothing more from them.

That brings up the other point at which the 'teacher' analogy breaks down. In my experience, the very best teachers encourage their students NOT to remain students for the rest of their lives. For example, the major prof I referred to above encouraged me to go to another university for further study so I could learn more from someone else - although he is an extremely intelligent person, he recognized that he didn't know everything. I've also had therapists tell me that they feel I've 'graduated' - basically that our work together was done. Maharaji seems to view the student/teacher relationship as perpetual - no one EVER graduates, and people are not encouraged to learn about life in any other way except Maharaji's way.

So my question is - how long do you need Maharaji to be your 'teacher'. Do you ever graduate - can you ever experience your interior life without his 'teaching'? Or are Maharaji's followers perpetual students because he is and always will be the 'master'

Take care,
Katie

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 21:47:08 (GMT)
From: Katie Darling
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: The perpetual teacher
Message:
In recent years, apparently, Da Free John, or Adi Da, or whatever he calls himself, created a new 'level' of consciousness in his system. This new level was one that only he could reach, now and forever. I guess the students were catching up and snapping at his heels on whatever system of levels he had set up previously.

I don't know much about him but years ago had clients trying to exit from him. His followers and premies were by FAR the most confused and double-binded of all the guru-followers I worked with.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 13:40:11 (GMT)
From: cerise
Email: None
To: Katie Darling
Subject: Bubba Free Avatar Adi Da Samraj Sandwich
Message:
that's the site I was talking to Janet and Mercedes about - check out that loonies site at

http://adidam.org/gateway/home.htm

AVATAR ADI DA SAMRAJ is his new name (number 20!)

I thought he was totally full of complicated shiyt, anyone who follows such a see thru deserves everything they get!
that's my view :)

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 02:24:04 (GMT)
From: Katie H.
Email: None
To: Katie Darling
Subject: Too funny, Katie D.
Message:
Although funny in a gallows humor type of way - I'm sure it wasn't funny to the people you worked with. Brian and I figure that Adi Da/Bubba Free John was too specific about the levels of realization and thus got in trouble. M seems to be on safe ground with the concept of 'realizing knowledge' :).

I was just remembering something that happens where I work and used to happen more frequently when things were more formal at the univ. (it's rather traditional and not generally adhered to now). When a student gets his Ph.D degree, he is entitled to call all the other Ph.D's he has worked with during the course of his education, and any OTHER Ph.D's he may encounter, by their first name - instead of Dr. So-and-So. It's actually quite a 'graduation' process - implying that the student is now equal to his teacher.

Lots of love,
Katie H.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 22:59:43 (GMT)
From: Thelma
Email: None
To: Katie Darling
Subject: The perpetual teacher - I come again and again
Message:
What's the difference between Krishna and Christ?

First came Vishnu and then he came again as Krishna then as Rama then as dozens of other nagging avatars including the current nagger from Hardwar to remind us of the same old thing.

Christ came, said what he had to say, got nailed for it (oops) and then left only to return for the final big bash that started with the big bang.

Guess he figured that we'd hear what he had to say first time round and didn't have to be such an interfering busy-body like the old Hindu nagging windbag.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 02:02:59 (GMT)
From: Joy
Email: None
To: Thelma
Subject: Uh, Excuse Me, Thelma . . .
Message:
But exactly which 'current nagger from Hardwar' are you referring to?

Surely you couldn't be implying that the Master formerly known as Lord of the Universe is some kind of incarnation akin to Krishna, Vishnu, Jesus, et al.???

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 02:27:42 (GMT)
From: Thelma
Email: None
To: Joy
Subject: Joy, she think she be
Message:
Who am I to argue? As a selfmade woman I can sympathize with aself-made avatar but god darling he's gotten so boring. I much preferred him in that Krishna drag doin the wobble dance.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 23:25:32 (GMT)
From: Bryn
Email: None
To: Thelma
Subject: The perpetual teacher - I come again and again
Message:
Didn't mind getting dragged out of the river of bondage to maya by the balls, but I expected my rescuer to have the decency to let go once we were on the bank.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 18:40:54 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Bryn
Subject: funny!!! LOL (nt)
Message:
76356
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 23:29:38 (GMT)
From: Thelma
Email: None
To: Bryn
Subject: The only way he'd let go of your balls, Bryn
Message:
is to cut them off. I'm keeping mine.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 23:34:58 (GMT)
From: Bryn
Email: None
To: Thelma
Subject: It's Ok,they're safe. I found a way!
Message:
It's taken me a while though. Nasty business.
Love Bryn
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 23:40:52 (GMT)
From: Thelma
Email: None
To: Bryn
Subject: Hang on to your huevos duras, Bryn NT
Message:
k
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 19:56:26 (GMT)
From: Dickie Pwickie
Email: None
To: Thelma
Subject: But once those 'obstacles' are removed ...
Message:
... total surrender is possible.

I know many of the so-called 70's PWK brothers said they'd give their left nut to surrender to The Speaker, but let me be the one to tell you, total surrender - and I'm talking giving both nuts - was the best thing I ever did. And it wasn't that painful really. I had a glass of Congac and did #3 while David Smith helped me show my gratitude. David used a fresh razor, so really it was like a tug and a pinch. Then we smoked Marlboros and watched an old Holi video.

Really, until one is fully committed as I am then confusion, doubt and nonsycnchronicity can occur. But once you've 'totally' surrendered, then there are no distractions from That Goal.

Synchronistically yours,

Dickie Pwickie

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 20:13:22 (GMT)
From: Luke Pewk
Email: None
To: Dickie Pwickie
Subject: Dickie, I know our voices area squeaky now but
Message:
our underpants fit better. Bally Shriek!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 21:15:07 (GMT)
From: Dickie Pwickie
Email: None
To: Luke Pewk
Subject: Luke, I always knew you were a nutless wonder /nt
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 19:48:49 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Amaroo update
Message:
Amaroo - LATEST UPDATES

'Progress is well underway for the construction of a new stage and backstage complex at the amphitheatre.'

'Work is going well on the construction of the new Fine Dining restaurant.'


Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 01:04:56 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: G
Subject: Have they got a chef, yet?
Message:
'Work is going well on the construction of the new Fine Dining restaurant.'

Well if they can do seafood (hell, this is Australia, how can they NOT do seafood?) better than Latvian Night seafood... Well, I'm rejoining and rejoicing.

But I'd opt for the Latvian Night company, any day.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 20:41:53 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: G
Subject: Amaroo update
Message:
This is turning into a cult of eaters and drinkers. I don't think there ever was a cult before where the members travelled across the world to eat expensive meals together in the middle of nowhere. Has a Monty Pythonesque touch that.

Good ammunition for the Reverend.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 20:40:31 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: G
Subject: Amaroo update
Message:
I notice that all the work is on the stage and backstage - not on the audience facilities. No change from the old days then, where complete living quarters with plumbing were built in the stage for a few hours occupation by the lardy one.

John

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 09:57:17 (GMT)
From: woolfy
Email: None
To: everyone
Subject: Amaroo update
Message:
Hi,
I would like to see a map, where we can see the area that is reserved for M and his family and the area where premies have free acces. Has anyone some information about that?

woolfy

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 21:51:23 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: all for his ego
Message:
Yes, nothing has changed. He'll be in exorbitant comfort, while the PWKs are treated like dirt. So shade for them, despite the tropical sun. Is that hay in the audience area? What are those things?

The fine dining comes at a steep price. Great, a further opportunity to give the rugu your money. How much does Rawat pay for his meals?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 23:16:26 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: G
Subject: No, you've got it wrong
Message:
It's for everyone who received k, so it says and anyone can register but you can only get in if you have a smart card. Nice trick that. If I go, will I be a mere guest or a more important delegate?

I'm beginning to see what this cult is about: 'Steve is excited about the unique trolley service, which will allow evening diners to select from a dozen different dishes at their tableside.'

Wow, that's pretty fantastic! At least they won't make you meditate or sing Arti.

I'm convinced now that this is phase two - the food and drink cult. It's Maharaji's way to trick the ex-premies. Just when we thought we had him on the run, he's turned it into a cult of harmless gourmets.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 09:55:20 (GMT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: No, you've got it wrong
Message:
Just think of it for a sec. All this infrastructure will be there after the 'event'. IRCC is going to make use of it. The Amphitheater can be hired for concert or shit like that, while the resturant is there for when they host other 'confrences' at 150 US dollers a pop. Real nice to be a guru no adays.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 01:38:25 (GMT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Yes , you've got it right ..belch nt
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 23:19:21 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: 'delegate'
Message:
The term 'delegate' comes from Rawat being into the conference management business.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 19:31:07 (GMT)
From: Katie H.
Email: None
To: Scott C.
Subject: To Scott C. from inactive
Message:
Hi Scott (glad you started using Scott C, btw!) -
The forum is moving so fast that it's getting hard to answer posts while they are still in the active index, so bringing this up to the top.

You wrote, in answer to Lesley, about appropriate places to express anger at specific people who were involved in the cult with you:
What would be an appropriate place? is this a closed, Ex's only pub. when i peruse the pages of this site and witness the way people rip each other a new ass hole on a frequent basis and then turn around and revile someone who is 'fresh meat' it smacks of secularism. Perhaps the good-natured ribbing you give each other is based on familiarity and a sense of belonging that comes with a shared mission. Call it MLM/Malign Light Mission.' Or maybe it's similar to the privilege of blacks calling each other nigger, when a wigger would get the shit kicked out of him for saying it. if you're going to take off the gloves, don't pick favorites.

First, I do agree with you about the 'fresh meat' analogy to some extent. (I take it Erika is your wife, so you were particularly sensitive to some of the posts made about and to her. Completely understandable, and I relate - probably more than you know.) I feel that Erika was treated respectfully in the most part, but the sheer volume of replies to her posts and questions she was asked seemed overwhelming to me - especially if, as you imply, she is in the process of sorting out some long-held beliefs. Also, the nasty or even just critical posts are never fun, even if there are only one or two of them. I think there are a few people here who enjoy flame wars, but most of us don't, IMHO.

But as someone else already said, there is a definite EX-premie bias on this forum because it's run by ex-premies and hosted on ex-premie.org. In other words, ex-premies tend to get a lot more rope to hang themselves here with than premies do :). It is a double standard which is freely admitted.

Also, some of the ex-premies here do NOT like each other - it's not just 'good-natured' ribbing. There are plenty of personality conflicts here, and the intramural fights are not 'fun' for most of the participants (at least for me, it's not.)

That said, I am not sure if the forum is a good place to work out or engage in most interpersonal conflicts (particularly ones that seem to be unworkable), even though I have done it. It's too public, for one thing, and most of the conflicts end up being off-topic, and take up a lot of space.

You also wrote:
i believe you guys are providing a resourse for premies and ex's that are trying to come to terms with some deeply disturbing behaviors of M.'s you may have passed that goal post a week, a month, a year or a decade ago...good for you, don't rub it in the faces of others who are just beginning to question. Scott

Thanks for saying that about this place :). I agree that there should be more 'space' here for people who are just beginning to question - and I think there IS far more space here for that now than there was before. One thing that gets in the way of that, though, is the presence of some exes (especially recent exes) who are going through a lot of anger and pain related to their involvement with Maharaji. As Erica and other people have pointed out, sometimes current premies who post here get hit with anger meant for Maharaji - they trigger this anger by things they say.

I know this can't be easy for the people who get angry responses, but I feel that it's very important for these ex-premies to have a chance to express anger, hurt, and sadness, and I have to take 'their side' as it were. It's a trade-off - I'm sure this anger makes it far harder for current premies, or premies experiencing confusion to post here, but it's also very important to let the ex-premies who have found this forum express their feelings. (This is addressed in the forum guidelines by the way.) One of the most insidious things for me about Maharaji's organization is that people were told they were 'in their minds' when they expressed deeply felt negative feelings. Some people here have been bottling up those feelings for over twenty years, and they come on really HOT - understandable, I hope.

I also feel that some of the CURRENT premies who post here do some projecting on ex-premies. I have heard so much here about the uptight ashram premies ruining things in Maharaji's organization - many of the ex-premies here are attacked for being former ashram premies (see Patrick Wilson's/Anon's post below). In Maharaji's world, we were taught to project our negative feelings on other premies, and our positive feelings on M (or to give him credit for them). As you have probably gathered by reading the posts here, Maharaji encouraged that - and it still goes on on this forum.

Best wishes to you and Erika - and I hope Erika will come back and post when she feels ready.

Take care,
Katie H.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 20:12:09 (GMT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Katie H.
Subject: Sacred Cows
Message:
Thanks for reposting this Katie H. So much too grock with all the posts and excellent points being made.

i believe you guys are providing a resourse for premies and ex's that are trying to come to terms with some deeply disturbing behaviors of M.'s you may have passed that goal post a week, a month, a year or a decade ago...good for you, don't rub it in the faces of others who are just beginning to question. Scott

Very constructive comment Scott. As a recently public poster here, I needed way more time and tolerance than some in finding my voice here. I avoided posting for a long time because I did not choose to be 'fresh meat' you referred to. But as I learned some time ago, Sacred Cows Make the Tastiest Hamburger.

Richard

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 21:36:43 (GMT)
From: Katie H.
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Sacred Cows
Message:
Thanks, Richard. I think we're all going to need to start pulling and re-posting significant posts from inactive :). I am a VERY fast reader - faster than anyone else I know - and no way can I read everything on the forum (I used to, but not any more.)

Re: Sacred cows make the tastiest hamburger - true, but people who believe in said sacred cows may not (although they can be pretty easy to grind up.)

Take care,
Katie

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 20:09:24 (GMT)
From: Scott C.
Email: None
To: Katie H.
Subject: To Scott C. from inactive
Message:
Katie: thankyou for your thoughtful and eloquent response. It's been an eduactional process for Erika and me, very individual yet mutually supportive. the flaming doesn't bother me when it is in a context pertainent to whats being discussed. When it devolves into a ' whatever you say I am you are double' mentality it devalues and at time invalidates the core of the issue. There has enough historical evidence presented to shake the faith of most reasoning people.That evidence runs the risk of being buried amidst the inflated assumptions and implied reality that abound on the EPO. perhaps it's a version of 'tough Love' or the inability of some people to grok the big picture of the site intent. It's feasible to think that as time goes on, as has been proven as of lat, that this site will be inundated with new voices posing new questions. Is the current focus and content of the site ready to handle it? Is there a vision driving the motivation for how you dissuade/persuade ? Or will it be ' premies are a bunch of fucking robots who would drink M.'s piss if he told them to' ...not a very enticing hook. What I've heard very little of on the site are voices that reflect personal accountability for individual choices and behaviors. the cop out of ' the guru made me do it, he turned me into an idiot. I could have gone to college, been married had kids and retired be now, but I chose to sacrifice it all for him and he fucked me over. ' I sold my soul and I didn't get paid.'
Pretty hard to swallow. re: the ashrams- I was CC in denver when the ashrams started closing down . I was directly involved in the process of folding up 9 houses/ ashrams in one ofthe countries largest premie communities. It's a long story we can explore at a later date. I have to catch a train. Really. Once again Katie, thanks for the post. It matters.ScottC.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 21:40:35 (GMT)
From: Lesley
Email: None
To: Scott C.
Subject: To Scott C. an appropriate place
Message:
Firstly, thanks Katie H for bringing this up, I saw it and was going to respond, but time got the better of me.

Scott, I second pretty much everything Katie H has said.

There is one extra point that I would like to make, and that is to answer your question about the appropriate place:

I am now out for a year, yes, I am comfortable and relaxed about being an ex, and comfortable with premies too, but when I first went over the wall, I was so so so fucking angry, so fucking angry I thought it would rip me apart, so I don't underestimate the strength of the feelings that are going on around here, I apologise for giving offense to you and your wife, I was, in fact issuing a warning (something I have almost managed to cure myself of, but not quite!) not to take out her hard feelings on an undeserving target.

The appropriate place? the reason why you are angry is the appropriate place. My former 'teacher' is the appropriate place for me to send it home to roost. After that, it was just a matter of making sure I only gave him what he was due, and didn't use him as a punching bag either! Regards, Lesley

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 02:54:09 (GMT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: Scott C.
Subject: How much piss have you drunk Scott ?
Message:
You say : What I've heard very little of on the site are voices that reflect personal accountability for individual choices & behaviors.

Then you say that you were directly involved in closing down 9 ashrams .

Let's hear how you square the circle.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 03:33:08 (GMT)
From: scott
Email: None
To: Bin Liner
Subject: How much piss have you drunk Scott ?
Message:
what the fuck are you getting at. try posting when you haven't been imbibing and then we'll talk. Is your alias a reference to garbage bags? i think you might be the guy I threw against the wall in the ashram. that was me..no one else, just me. If you're interested in a serious discussion about your negative ashram experience/ejection we can discuss it. You sound frothy just thinking about it. What do I represent to you? A bad memory? rejection or abandonment? unrequited love, unemployment..what?
Is there a reason for referring to yourself as Bin Liner...nothing to be afraid of . Scott C.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 03:48:58 (GMT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: scott
Subject: You are a lucky fucker , because if you'd
Message:
thrown me against the ashram wall, ...well.

Sorry if I rattled your cage.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 03:04:12 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Bin Liner
Subject: Scott , Bin wouldn't be this rude if he were face
Message:
to face with you. His question may be sincere but he is hiding behind not only the veil of internet unaccountability but also anonymity. This enables him to ignore Miss Manners advice and be as uncouth as he wishes.

If it upsets you to deal with rudeness please be aware that, if you wish to have more courteous discussions, that you are free to ignore the rude anonymice and talk to the majority of posters here who are polite - well, most of the time.

The trick to enjoying the forum is to disengage you emotional kneejerk reactions of being hurt or insulted. The medium is not subtle. Good luck.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 13:56:19 (GMT)
From: cerise
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: cool Pat - quite agree
Message:
tn :) % %% %
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 03:47:19 (GMT)
From: scott
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: Scott , Bin wouldn't be this rude if he were face
Message:
Pat: From one Irishman to another, you must know that confrontation is an enticement as well as a deterrent, depending on the position of the sun or the mood of the moment. thanks for the heart felt intervention, but I'm fine. Bin has, what I'm sure is genuine pain about the way he's been dealt with in relation to M. and the ashram civil code. the ashram aura was one of assumed privilege and insensitivity towards those who hadn't made the 'true choice' of service. It messed with a lot of people...we were ignorant and pompous from time to time...most of us were making it up as we went along and didn't get it right most of the time. i cringe at the memories of my own false status in the hierarchy of dedication. I'm not proud of some of the ways that I discounted others.that was 20 years ago, so it's not immediately recollected, but the impressions of my naivete are vivid none the less.ScottC.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 03:49:38 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: scott
Subject: Scott , thanks and sorry Bin NT
Message:
h
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 03:11:45 (GMT)
From: Katie H.
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: Bin is not anonymous
Message:
His name is Patrick (or Pat) D. - can't remember his last name. He has posted it several times.

BTW, I LOVE the pseudonym 'Bin Liner' and would be very disappointed if he gave it up :). Also think Scott C is OK about dealing with flames or confrontational posts - I mean, he even said so!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 03:19:41 (GMT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: Katie H.
Subject: Love you Katie H . Pat Dorrity. nt
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 06:05:35 (GMT)
From: Katie H.
Email: None
To: Bin Liner
Subject: Thanks, Bin - love the pseudonym...
Message:
...and you're a sweetheart.

Love,
Katie

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 05:12:57 (GMT)
From: Trash Bag
Email: None
To: Bin Liner
Subject: Hi Bin from your American cousin! (nt)
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 21:03:52 (GMT)
From: Katie H.
Email: mishkat@tigerriver.com
To: Scott C.
Subject: To Scott C. from inactive
Message:
Hi Scott -
I know you won't be able to answer this right away - hope you get back in time to answer some things, though. Thanks, by the way :).

You wrote:
There has enough historical evidence presented to shake the faith of most reasoning people.That evidence runs the risk of being buried amidst the inflated assumptions and implied reality that abound on the EPO.

Are you talking about the actual ex-premie.org SITE, or the forum here? Please elaborate, because if there is anything on EPO (excluding Journeys entries, which are personal) that you think is factually inaccurate, we would like to know about it. (I'm not implying that I believe the site is 100% accurate - it is as truthful as we have been able to make it with the information we have - and it does have a journalistic bias.)

As far as what is said on the forum - that depends on who is saying it. It does help to have people who were there at the time some of this events happened and who can then correct false assumptions. There has never been a free flow of information in Maharaji's organization (to put it mildly!) and thus many premies and ex-premies have had half-truths, overheard gossip, etc. as their only source of information. This site and forum have been the only place where most of us could communicate freely and talk about life in Maharaji's world - and, naturally, most of us have only a little piece of the puzzle.

You wrote:
It's feasible to think that as time goes on, as has been proven as of late, that this site will be inundated with new voices posing new questions. Is the current focus and content of the site ready to handle it? Is there a vision driving the motivation for how you dissuade/persuade ?

The site itself (excluding the forum) does have a 'vision' is designed to be premie-neutral, although definitely not Maharaji-neutral. The forum is a dynamic system, and its tone is set by the people who post here. There is no 'vision' per se for how one posts to premies who are just encountering the forum - what you see is a bunch of individual people reacting and acting according to their own feelings. In other words, the forum is NOT moderated (except for threats, outings, etc.)

Again, if you have comments about the 'focus and content' of the site itself, I'd really like to hear them. It's a work in progress. (Just no critiques of site design right now, please - at this time, content is more important than appearance!)

You wrote:
Or will it be ' premies are a bunch of fucking robots who would drink M.'s piss if he told them to' ...not a very enticing hook.

Well, I know people say things like this on the forum, and I guess, since we were ALL premies, they are referring to themselves as well. But you are correct that it is not very enticing - and I don't think it takes into account the fact that premies are all individuals. (I have to say that many premies tend to generalize about ex-premies in the exact same way - not very helpful in fostering communication!). I think many people here are angry at the 'premie' part of themselves - and that's why you hear statements like that. There are also people who have been treated badly by certain premie individuals. But still, statements like this are a gross generalization and are untrue.

You wrote:
What I've heard very little of on the site are voices that reflect personal accountability for individual choices and behaviors. the cop out of ' the guru made me do it, he turned me
into an idiot. I could have gone to college, been married had kids and retired be now, but I chose to sacrifice it all for him and he fucked me over. ' I sold my soul and Ididn't get paid.'
Pretty hard to swallow.

We did have a thread about this about a month ago, and it was a good one. I personally believe that we need to take personal responsibility for OUR PART of whatever happened in any given situation. I tend to be one of those people who believe that everything was my fault, so the idea that I only need to be responsible for my part of it has been very helpful to me. I should say, though, that the ex-premies on the forum have had some 'spirited discussions' the extent of our own personal responsibility, so I'm not expecting everyone to agree with this part of my post.

I have trouble swallowing the statements about 'it's all Maharaji's fault' too. However, I do think statements like these are a part of some people's recovery process. Many premies took the blame for everything that went wrong upon themselves. I know that I believed that my problems with experiencing knowledge were my fault, and meant I was an unworthy and deeply flawed person.
In a way, it is sort of like the therapy process - people often go through a stage in therapy where they learn that they are not bad and that their parents laid all kinds of trips on them. There is a tendency then to get very angry at one's parents and think that all one's problems are their fault. Some people get stuck in the 'blame my parents' stage, and never take responsibility for their lives. I am sure we all know people like this! They say things like 'It's OK for me to be a horrible person because I was abused as a child.', and so forth.

It is true, however, that to become our own people, we need to take responsibility for our lives as they are now, without blaming other people for OUR part of the choices we made. This doesn't happen overnight though - I think the process for ex-premies goes something like this: (1)blame ourselves (as premies) (2)then blame Maharaji (as ex-premies) (3)then take responsibility for our part of it. And sometimes there is no 'OUR PART' - particularly in the case of children who were sexually abused within the cult, women who were raped, and so forth.

Anyway, I hope you can see some of the blaming that goes on here as part of the healing process. God knows we don't want to be like Maharaji, who apparently rarely, if ever, takes responsibility for anything negative.

You wrote:
re: the ashrams- I was CC in denver when the ashrams started closing down . I was directly involved in the process of folding up 9 houses/ ashrams in one of the countries largest premie communities. It's a long story we can explore at a later date.

Would like to hear what you have to say. I have pretty strong personal feelings about the ashram closings. I never lived in the ashram and never wanted to, but I had friend who did, and for whom it was a 'safe' place. I thought these people would have a home forever, and one of the things that bothered me most when I found this site is finding out that M had closed the ashrams so precipately.

Take care, Scott, and thanks for answering -
Katie

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 02:33:43 (GMT)
From: scott
Email: None
To: Katie H.
Subject: To Scott C. from inactive
Message:
katie: you are very thorough in your responses. You probably won't get the same from me. Sorry.I will respond in short spurts and splats and at times will be long winded and somewhat obtuse.nothing personal,just a matter of personal style. your voice is familiar and sweet....much appreciated. Time to assimilate and integrate. talkto you later. Scott
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 02:37:48 (GMT)
From: Katie H.
Email: mishkat@tigerriver.com
To: scott
Subject: that's OK, scott C.
Message:
I've had an unprecendented amount of time to post here this weekend and today - usually, I don't. You can always e-mail if you want - or if it's easier.

Take care,
Katie H.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 21:01:03 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Scott C.
Subject: To Scott C. from inactive
Message:
Scott,

I think you raise a good point about how well equipped a site like this is, or maybe ill equipped, to handle lots of new people asking lots of questions. It's kind of just an open forum, with very minimal regulation. I think that's great, really, because I think the last thing a bunch of former cult members want, is somebody regulating what they can say, or how they are supposed to act. Actually, I think the most valuable part of the website is all the historical and other information that people can access, including the journeys, even if they never come to the Forum.

It's already sort of coming to pass, because now, this website is kind of becomming the focus for everybody who used to be a premie who wants to find out more, and also premies themselves, to either 'peek' or to try to find out what the opposition is saying, or, even further, get some information that isn't given by Maharaji and his organizations, either about the history, or even what's going on now. And the traffic is really increasing.

I don't think this website was set up as some kind of a crusade. It was set up to connect former premies with other former premies to just talk about what they had been through, and to catch up with each other's lives. That's all it was at the beginning. And it just kind of developed from there, in a way that I think has astounded a lot of people, including me.

I know I never thought it was going to become a vehicle for more people becomming ex-premies. That just sort of happened. I guess there was a need for it, and to whatever extent, it is fulfilling that need, or at least a lot of people say so. I know for me, the reason I stay involved with this, is when people come forward and say 'thank' for this website. I think that means a lot to a lot of people, and it's happened frequently.

This has been talked about a lot, but when it comes to free speech, you just can't control what people say, or the emotions they go through. And people are in all different stages of exiting premieland, and had all kinds of different experiences when they were in, and all kinds of different opinions about what happened.

The best that can be hoped for is just a wide-range of views being expressed. People may feel supported by some voices and attacked by others. It's kind of just the lawlessness and inability to regulate that kind of enviornment. But when people are questioning something that is so basic, and so deeply held by someone, it's hard not to feel attacked by almost anything said that questions that.

To be fair, Scott, there has been LOTS of talk on this forum about personal responsibility, lots and lots and lots, in fact. But it's not like everday each person is going to profess their responsbility over and over, so you may not have seen it, unless you read this place everyday.

It's something each person has to deal with individually. Part of getting through all this is accepting responsibility for whatever part one had in this deal, but the subject keeps coming back to the fact that Maharaji hasn't taken ANY responsbility, in fact won't even admit that anything ever went wrong, as far as I can tell. So that tends to be the focus. Public confessions can be helpful, but that isn't really the subject of this website.

Also, I have a strong interest in just finding out, factually, what really happened. Why did those decisions get made, and what was the motivation behind them? This is both curiosity and also because it was something that was a significant part of my life, and I'd just like to know for the record. I guess there is a historian in me, but it's also very personal. This is what is great about Dettmers, Donner, Guy and others and what they have to say. Because it was clear that as premies there were a lot of things going on that we didn't know about, that's for sure.

Also, Scott, your characterizations are just a little strong. I've never heard anyone say M turned them into an idiot, or that he 'made them' do anything. The 'nobody held a gun to your head' argument has been made ad nauseum here by current premies, and I'd think you would agree it just isn't that simple. But I completely agree with you about some negative comments to premies, and sometimes I cringe when I read them.

We have to take responsbility for the fact that we believed what Maharaji told us, maybe we really wanted to believe it, and we chose to ignore all the evidence to the contrary that this thing just wasn't what it was portrayed to be. Based on that, I made those decisions that damaged my life and the lives of others, but Maharaji has some responsbility for that too. I can choose to buy damaged goods, but the person who sold them to me claiming they were perfect shares some responsibility too.

One final point. Just like a premie might react if they are told they are mindless cult members (which obviously isn't fair), an ex-premie might react to a premie saying that ex-premie never practiced knowledge, never tried hard enough, wasn't sincere, never understood what knowledge was about, or was just defective in some way that made them have the experience the had, etc., which has been said to us quite often here. That hurts too.

And frankly, I put your wife's comments about me in that category too, and I think it's just as unfair, and that's why I didn't just drop it. I read what Erika was saying as I was just this inflexible, stubborn person, who probably had a lot of weird ideas that she, for some reason, was fortunate not to have, and therefore my opinion doesn't count. Yes, I reacted to that, both because I think her opinion of me back then is just wrong, but also because it colors the discussion we have now, and it was appropriate to react, but as I said to you, I have gotten over it. I am fortunately not very thin-skinned.

The world is a messy place and this website is part of the world. Wouldn't it be boring if the world was like the Elan Vital website, or Maharaji's website? I take a little disagreement now and then any day in contrast with that

Thanks, Scott, all the best to you.

P.S., your name does sound really familiar. Maybe I remember you from DECA?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 21:21:40 (GMT)
From: Katie H.
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: To Scott C. from inactive
Message:
Hi Joe -
I agree with this (and thanks for bringing it up - sometimes I forget!):
I don't think this website was set up as some kind of a crusade. It was set up to connect former premies with other former premies to just talk about what they hadbeen through, and to catch up with each other's lives. That's all it was at the beginning. And it just kind of developed from there, in a way that I think has astounded a lot of people, including me.

Brian and I were trying to remember the original subheading for the site, which was something like 'Former followers of Maharaji discuss what the hell happened to us.' Do you remember it? Anyway, the original webmaster of the site (also named Scott) was/is an very non-judgemental and forgiving person - from all I understand he set it up to help ex-premies make sense out of their pasts - something he was in the process of doing.

I know I never thought it was going to become a vehicle for more people becomming ex-premies. That just sort of happened. I guess there was a need for it, and to whatever extent, it is fulfilling that need, or at least a lot of people say so. I know for me, the reason I stay involved with this, is when people come forward and say 'thanks' for this website. I think that means a lot to a lot of people, and it's happened frequently.

Yes, me too - I also NEVER imagined the site would end being this influential (still hard to believe at times); and that I also stay involved because of the people who keep showing up here and being glad the site is here for them.

Anyway, thanks for bringing that up - also for what you said the rest of your post - and also for your continued presence here. You are much appreciated (at least by me - snicker)

Love,
Katie

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 22:56:48 (GMT)
From: Katie Darling
Email: darlingwave@aol.com
To: Katie H.
Subject: Hi Scott
Message:
Hey Wonderful Man, (to other people reading, he really is a great guy!)

I have fretted a bit myself about some of the points you brought up - about how this site –– and particularly the Forum ––may not be the optimal support place for people trying to exit. I know that you guys feel okay, but there are many, many who didn't and don't feel okay when leaving the cult. I have had my nose rubbed in it. MJ's world has been quite a shattering for many psyches.

What Katie Haering said above about the stages of: blame self, blame MJ, then get more balanced, is exactly the way I see it, and I've posted quite a bit about this in the past (in fact, she and I sometimes wonder if we are the same person, but I know nothing about soil!). There is definitely a danger of getting stuck in the 'blame MJ' phase, just as people get stuck blaming their parents.

No offense, and not meaning to jump the gun, but I think you and Erika will eventually make really good, mature, skillful, intelligent counsellors for people exiting the cult. I did it for a long time in person, but not any more. I think there is potential for it happening in a more sensitive way even online. I think this Forum can do a bit of that, but people need to express freely, as pointed out above. But how about (after you exit that is) we set up a kind of on-line forum to counsel people who are feeling very raw and confused about leaving, or considering leaving? I'm all for personal responsibility, and riding the sensitive edge - and explaining it cognitively - between over-responsibility and over-projection. Hey, I just remembered that you said you were in charge of closing the ashrams. So you already have some of those skills! I'm kidding, and really not meaning to offend you, but actually, I could see this happening eventually. There is a need for help for a lot of old-timers who buried their real inner feelings in favor of a superimposed and safe-seeming belief system long ago. And I know that it doesn't have to be this way and that you two found a way to integrate it into a beautiful life. Congratulations! And... with your level of integrity, you cannot help but eventually take in the facts about MJ's abuses described here. I found it very hard to put the two realities of MJ together at first. But when I did, it freed me and gave me a part of myself back that I didn't even know I had lost.

Anyway, I'm sorry that the climate here was at all unpleasant for either of you. It often is for me, too. And sometimes I love it. A friend of mine who is an ex-instructor (and has been an ex-premie almost as long as me - 17 years) just found the site yesterday. He called me, and said he was absolutely blown away by how intelligent the discussions are, despite a few exceptions. His comment was, 'It's hard to believe that these people were once premies, because we never talked like this.' Actually, he and I have been having a blast in all sorts of domains ever since we left, and we know hundreds of people who left around the same time who are on very integrated, self-empowered spiritual, creative and other paths.

I would love to continue a respectful discussion with you (either or both) if you want, here or by e-mail. My e-mail is above.

Much love, Katie Darling

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 17:02:28 (GMT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Katie Darling
Subject: Hi Scott+Katie-I totally agree, would love to be a
Message:
part of anything like you are talking about.(I almost said 'participate' in something like that, but it just didn't sound right..)

With a psychology/counseling background, I relate to and understand a lot of what is going on here.
I think for the most part it's great, sometime a little too rough around the edges or raucous for some, but most of it is quite stimulating and helpful in one way or another in putting the puzzle together...

I agree about having another forum that is just for a 'counseling' type of dialogue...does that already happen on the recent ex-forum?...

Take care,
la-ex

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 17:59:47 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: Katie D and La-Ex
Message:
I think what you two are saying is very significant.

I know when I left the cult in 1983, even in the counselling-prone Bay Area, it was really hard to find anyone, any kind of a therapist, who knew anyting about cults, let alone about the cult I had been in.

A group of ex-premies with counseling training, could be a very important help for people. And as you said, the Forum is just one form of help, maybe not for everyone, and people need more.

Are you guys aware of any ex-premies actually doing counseling/therapy who we might be able to refer people to?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Mar 22, 2001 at 04:01:29 (GMT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Yes Joe,I do, and I think it's a good idea too...
Message:
One of my old friends was a premie for about 8 years and then became an 'exit counselor' for about 10 years.(Exit counselor was a kinder, gentler type of deprogrammer)-I think the difference was the deprogrammers assumed that they had to rip you out of the cult, whether or not you wanted to go or not.
The exit counselling strategy was different, I believe in that the counselor worked with you more to enable you to leave on your own free will....this would obviously be more in tune with todays's 'kinder, gentler cult' that the Rev. Rawat presides over....

I have asked him to post his journey and he has promised he will, and hopefully stick around for awhile to answer questions....he lives in Baltimore, Md...he is currently a practicing therapist and hypnotherapist...great guy, would be a welcome addition and great asset...

I also think that the psychological impact of actually offering a 'service' like this, would be powerful, in relation to m...imagine him learning that his former premies are now offering to deprogram his current premies!...who would be next?....I think Erika was starting to move in that direction, and then it got to be too much, too soon...

But when you think about it, having the initial anonymity of the forum could be a great plus, in that you could kind of 'test the waters' before making any great declaration about where you are at...this could then progress into deeper discussions, e-chats, and possible counselling sessions....also, an informal 'hot line' to someone who is going through sudden changes...why don't we start a new thread and get ideas and reactions...

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Mar 22, 2001 at 04:12:15 (GMT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: joe
Subject: it doesn't have to be a forum type of format...
Message:
we might just set up a list of phone numbers that are available for people to call if they are in need of 'exit counselling'...

people who are already skilled might be able to read some literature, and take a seminar or two on how to deal specifically with these situations...

we would have to screen out pranksters, but make sure that anyone who needed help was taken care of in some preliminary way at least...

I don't think an open forum would be good, except for the initial contact...after that, privacy would have to be assured...private phone conversations rather than open e-chat free for alls...

Why not start a new thread with some sort of proposal?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 02:23:59 (GMT)
From: scott
Email: None
To: Katie Darling
Subject: Hi Scott
Message:
Katie: Thanks for the invitation to continue the dialogue.I need to digest and assimilate.I'm sitting in our nyc apt. w/Ondine Norman...she says Hi.So much to feel and think about.29 years in arelationship that is currently being reassessed and deconstructed.I appreciate your sensitivity. We'll talk later. Scott
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 16:19:46 (GMT)
From: Katie Darling
Email: None
To: scott
Subject: Hi Scott
Message:
Any time. Take your time.

Hi to Ondine. Wondered where she was (I thought she lived in my area and had just disappeared).

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 23:15:28 (GMT)
From: Katie H.
Email: None
To: Katie Darling
Subject: Hi Katie - some of this does happen already
Message:
You wrote:
I think there is potential for it happening in a more sensitive way even online. I think this Forum can do a bit of that, but people need to express freely, as pointed out above. But how about (after you exit that is) we set up a kind of on-line forum to counsel people who are feeling very raw and confused about leaving, or considering leaving? I'm all for personal responsibility, and riding the sensitive edge - and explaining it cognitively - between over-responsibility and over-projection.

As you well know (I am sure you get a TON of e-mail because of your Journey entry), some of this type of counseling/sharing happens informally. I also used to get a lot of e-mail from people who didn't want to post on the forum for one reason or another - some of them became forum posters after a while. I had to cut back on doing this when my real world job got very intense, but still do get mail. The lovely Ms. Robyn also spends time doing this, and Brian has spent uncountable hours on the phone talking to people who posted what amounted to cries for help here. (Beneath his rough exterior lies a heart of gold and all that.)

Anyway, I like your idea of a forum set up to handle this kind of sharing, because the one-on-one discussions can be overwhelming to people like me. Not sure how it could be translated into reality (perhaps something akin to Recent Exes?), but I think it is a good idea.

Lots of love,
Katie H.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 01:52:05 (GMT)
From: Katie Darling
Email: None
To: Katie H.
Subject: Hi Katie - some of this does happen already
Message:
Hey other Katie, did you see that Sir Dave put up a very serious proposal for this last week? I think you guys were away. He asked for people who were good counsellors to sign up as being available for occasional one-on-one. Not feeling good so I haven't responded yet. Yes I get a lot of e-mail.

Anyway, what do you think of my proposal that Scott and Erika help coordinate this? ;––)

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 18:03:04 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Katie Darling
Subject: Hi Katie - some of this does happen already
Message:
Katie, do you really thing Scott and Erika are in any position to be counseling others? It seems they might need a lot of counseling themselves right now, and who knows where they will come out? I'm not so sure they are as far along in the exiting process as you think they are, at least based on what I've seen so far.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Mar 22, 2001 at 02:43:06 (GMT)
From: Katie Darling
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Joe, well...
Message:
as I said to Scott, I was KIND of kidding. Obviously they haven't exited yet. But something Scott said about how lots of people are going to be coming out soon and how ill-equipped this forum is to handle them made me think that he is starting his paradigm shift. I thought it would be fun to give them a service to aim for. And they both have such mellow personalities and articulate communication skills that they would be really good at this.

But basically it was a sorta joke.

See you soon. You must come see my house in the hills, which we just decided NOT to sell, which is a big deal.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Mar 22, 2001 at 02:48:04 (GMT)
From: Katie Darling
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Joe, one more thing
Message:
When I said 'And they both have such mellow personalities and articulate communication skills' I meant except what she said about you. I wouldn't have liked that either.

Sometimes at programs in the early 80's I would meet premies from South America who remembered me as a mahatma's aide in the 70's whose service was to 'prepare people for Knowledge' (i.e. browbeat) and they still saw me that way which was awful.

Not that you were ever like that, I'm sure (I was). I thought it was pretty funny when that guy 'remembered' you from the Houston ashram you never lived in!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 02:15:16 (GMT)
From: Katie H.
Email: None
To: Katie Darling
Subject: Hi Katie - some of this does happen already
Message:
I did see Sir David's plea, and I was tempted to answer, but I am fried. I mean this as no offense to ANYONE I've talked to over the years - it is more that the interpersonal stuff I have to deal with at work (touchy scientists, and territory issues) have to take precendence now (I gotta pay the rent), and I have little energy left at the end of the day. I was home sick today and greatly enjoyed the opportunity to post on the forum - also, I am working on not having to work weekends.

About Scott and Erika - I can't picture it right now, although you know them far better than I do. I think it's sort of a wait-and-see thing - who knows what will happen. I did very much appreciate Scott's comments on the forum, etc.

I do think it would be good to have a forum set-up for something like this. But, it would take a bit of work to set it up, and someone would have to be FA and be willing to delete flames and so forth.

We'll have to figure out something to do about your e-mail, I think. I do think this forum is evolving in a way so that more people feel comfortable posting here (although I still see the 'fresh meat' attitude, it tends to be less negative, and just overwhelming by sheer volume of responses.)

Pragmatically yours (and love too, of course) from
Katie the Taurus :)

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 19:25:46 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: in the realm of out-to-lunches
Message:

Today's
EV offering:


'You're a human 'being'. Remember
that. Being in touch with that breath,
with that breath that simply comes
and goes. Being in touch with that loud
silence that is within me. Simply being
in touch with that feeling that pulses
through me. Where I become one.
One, not many. How beneficial is that
to you? How beneficial to know that
you have a whole other dimension, and
it's out of the realm of lunches and
fashion, and phones, and computers,
and e-mails, and v-mails, and mail-mails, and
junk-mails, and whatever. And I don't know who I
would be offending to say that amongst all your
obligations, you have an obligation to yourself, too.'

Edited excerpt, Maharaji in Miami Beach, 29th May 1999

.
.
.

'I don't know who I would be offending to say that amongst all your obligations, you have an obligation to yourself, too.' thus spake Maha-out-to-lunch-Ji.


Well, Mr Rawat, you should know who you're offending. And why.

So here's what you should know: -
.
.
.
You seem to be very fond of telling other people exactly HOW you think they should live their life. Yet you also seem to be remarkably unaware that advice is best given by those that have taken it themselves.

You tell your listeners that they have an obligation to themselves. Well, lead by example, if you really want your words to mean something.

And just what is the obligation you have to YOURself?

Surely - to be honest with yourself? Then, if you can manage that, to be honest with others?

Well, to judge by your blatant denial of your past, (or should I be less tactful? - your evident lying about your past), you have a long, long way to go before you should feel confident enough to set yourself up as an authority on 'how to fullfil obligations to yourself'.

If your example is anything to go by, then it's very plain to see that one of your main obligations to yourself is primarily to deceive others.

Your actions have spoken louder than your words.

They always will.


Many people take great offense at the way you have, ever since you were a child, set yourself up as someone whose experience of life was somehow worthy of respect - worship even.

But look at you! You keep harping on about gratitude - how we 'should' all feel gratitude all the time. Has it not occurred to you that, if it weren't for other people's gratitude towards you, you wouldn't be living the life you have now?

Your whole lifestyle is FOUNDED on the generosity that others have shown you (whether they were pressurised into it or not). And yet you keep telling US that WE should be grateful????

Good grief, man, can't you see how offensive that is to anyone who has a conscience?

.
.
.
An obligation to ourselves? Well, Prem Pal Singh, one of my obligations to MYself is to make sure that none of MY family, friends or loved ones ever fall for your scam. That's an obligation I owe myself.
.
.
Thanks for reminding me.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 22:51:44 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Chris, I also got that in my email but it had this
Message:
added to it:

''Remember YOUR obligation to be grateful to the giver of this precious gift of Knowledge. Ask for the gift of gratitude.''

It was signed by a EV church lady whom I will not out because methinks the lady doth protest too much and will soon be posting here.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 17:38:14 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: 'ask for the gift of gratitude'??? Infinite loop!
Message:

If gratitude itself is a gift, I guess we then have to be grateful to the giver of the gift of gratitude, is that it?

We'd have gratitude for the gift of gratitude.
.
.
.

Let's see how that would sound:

'Oh my Maharaji, how do I express my gratitude for the gift of gratitude for the gift of gratitude for the gift of gratitude for the gift of gratitude for …..warning ….the gift of gratitude for the gift of gratitude ... danger, Will Robinson ... for the gift of gratitude for the gift of gratitude for the gift of gratitude for the gift of gratitude for the gift of gratitude for the gift of gratitude for the gift of gratitude for the gift of gratitude for …'

(repeat and accelerate to explosion SFX)

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Mar 22, 2001 at 00:53:43 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Great point! (nt)
Message:
ffffffff
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 19:09:45 (GMT)
From: donner
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: 'ask for the gift of gratitude'??? Infinite loop!
Message:
great stuff you guys
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 20:17:40 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: donner
Subject: This am's email from church lady
Message:
''Pray for gratitude and ask that you may recognize the gidt that you have been given.''

The church ladies are trying so hard to get me back in the fold.

Nuff said.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Mar 22, 2001 at 04:46:41 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: The church ladies will scare you into being
Message:
OLD, COLD, BOLD, not SOLD

They harder they try
the further you'll fly
expressions so airy
are just downright scary

their breath is like dew
on a dog turd in your shoe
Poo!

---Rod 'Krishna' McKuen

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Mar 22, 2001 at 09:54:12 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: Are you pulling my leg, Francesca?
Message:
I read about McKuen in a thread yesterday and didn't know who he was. Is this really his poem or are you satirizing him? Either way it's so - so - meaningless?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Mar 22, 2001 at 17:24:40 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: Are you pulling my leg, Francesca?
Message:
Yes. Rod 'Krishna' McKuen was often playing with his flute. And spouting utter nonsense that could have meaning if you made your mind just fuzzy enough. Kind of get into the state of cotton candy and g-r-o-o-v-e baby.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 21:04:09 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: Gift? What gift?
Message:
When I think how many hoops I had to jump through to get shown the 'knowledge'
- man, I earned what I was shown (- not to mention the 2 years in the ashram)

BTW, I thought K is meant to be 'free'? If only it'd enable you to be free from the attentions of the Maha's would-be fund-raisers!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 19:16:57 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: The San Franciscans on Then and Now?
Message:
Would somebody identify the five people (and one dog) in the San Francisco group on Bobby's Then and Now site?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 20:05:39 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: The San Franciscans on Then and Now, Way
Message:
From left to right:

Andy (who is Chuck's and my husband of 8 years) holding Maharaji (our blind terrier - real name Marjoram or Marji but we tease her about being the Master because she's so bossy.)

Francesca who was in th ashcan with Joe and Joy and whom Chuck and I have known for 20 years.

Me

Chuck (who started posting here as Charles S) who has been my husband for nearly 20 years.

And in front Thelma the Thunderstealing Bitch (okay - it's fake) who runs a pornography web ring. (That was actually another ex-ashcan premie who does not post so we decided not to show her face.)

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 20:22:35 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: Thanks
Message:
Thanks, Pat, for the explanation. Since you apparently have two husbands, can I borrow Chuck for awhile?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 22:40:20 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Way, I thought you had a husband
Message:
But you can borrow Chuck for a while however the interest rate is still 39.87% eventhough they cute the Fed rate by 0.5% today.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 20:01:18 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Then and Now link
Message:
The link for the Then and Now photos, second page, scroll down.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 17:54:19 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Question for Dettmers, Donner or anyone else who
Message:
can speculate...

I know you all have been out a while, but...

I get the impression from your posts that even with the incredible wealth the Guru has he also has a chronic inability to live within his means. I wonder if you both might speculate on how he would do if the money stopped coming in. Do you think he could be far enough in debt to be hurt? Do you think he has sheltered himself in such a way that he would never have to declare bancruptcy even if he never got another dime from a premie?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 21:33:03 (GMT)
From: Michael Dettmers
Email: dettmers@gylanix.com
To: Susan
Subject: Question for Dettmers, Donner or anyone else who
Message:
Susan

What I have to say here is based upon some of the comments I made in my responses to Joe’s thread below entitled: “More on the 707/Questions for the Mikes and Guy.” As you know, by 1985 I was strongly advocating that Maharaji come down off the throne and engage in meaningful dialogue with people, premies or otherwise. For that to happen, I knew it was necessary to undo the cult apparatus. I particularly wanted to bring an end to the constant fundraising. Besides addressing the legal concerns I spoke about, I envisioned that if Maharaji became independently wealthy through his business interests, we could eliminate the need to fundraise at all. If the reports by Richard and la-ex are true, it would appear that the strategy has worked, at least the part about him becoming independently wealthy. I say, “it would appear” because the transactions to which they referred took place after I left.

So, in principle at least, Maharaji should have no difficulty living within his very considerable means. Yet, the fundraising continues and PWKs justify to themselves that $40M planes, and $7M yachts, and mansions around the world are really essential tools for M to fulfill his noble mission. In the meantime, reliable sources tell me that Amaroo and Dunright have accumulated substantial debts. If these edifices come crashing down because of creditor lawsuits, it is the PWKs who serve in Director and Officer positions that will be left holding the bag.

Why is this happening? My only conclusion is that, despite his wealth, Maharaji’s greed knows no boundaries. Many PWKs don’t see this or don’t want to believe it. They choose, instead, to bury their heads in the sand and trust that it is M’s mercy and compassion that compels him to create such wonderful opportunities for his devotees to serve him. Donner has underscored this and other aspects of the cult belief system in his post so I won’t go into that now.

Michael

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 23:40:18 (GMT)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: Michael Dettmers
Subject: dunrite/dunwrong. Poor Geof (and Kim)... also!...
Message:
It's all my fault about Kathy Gliebe [director of SEVA]. [whip, whip, lash] I was too good at giving satsang and converting the great unwashed. Oh, what a headache, even to think about it now...

Kathy and Jim, at UCSB, k-i-s-s-i-n-g,
first came satsang, then came ashram,
then came SEVA with a shell corp cash scam.

Ah, woe is me, woe is me... [wrenching hair and gnashing of teeth] Oh, the Light is getting bright; ok, then, just forget about the 'woe', and let's go with the proverbial flow...

Peace and lentils,

da lil' swami

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 18:07:10 (GMT)
From: donner
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: Question for Dettmers, Donner or anyone else who
Message:
dettmers will be in the best position to answer this of anyone. i do not know really. certainly he could live within his means which are probably very very considerable by now.

but, what would he do aboutthe illusion he has created for himself and lives within...like 'i do and want all this so that the premies can experice service and giving'. his illusion/excuse/justification is all about framing everything in relationship to spreading knowledge...the planes, houses, etc. or framing things around creating opportunities for premies to give...poor guy, just has to keep putting out, travelling etc so that the premies can be happy. keep thinking about co-dependent relationships...he needs the premies and believes (as all co-dependents do) that he does all this for the premies. premies think they do what they do for him. and the co-dependent dance continues....until we have enough and are wanting and ready to move on...hopefully learning enough about that process within ourselves so as not to have to repeat it again in another situation...

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 23:50:34 (GMT)
From: such
Email: None
To: donner
Subject: Imagine swirled peas!AA:m and 10,000 co-dependents
Message:
000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000et al...
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 19:05:06 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: donner
Subject: Very interesting
Message:
That's an interesting take, regarding the co-dependent relationship. That makes a lot of sense.

I frankly can't fathom what Maharaji thinks about it all, especially after all these years. For example, can one tell if, when Maharaji says he needs a new plane, car, yacht, whatever, and that it's for 'spreading knowledge,' no matter how ridiculous that is, or that it's just a gift to the premies to give them an opportunity to 'participate' or 'express graditude' or 'do service' (in earlier days), whether he actually believes that, or is just making excuses because he's a megalomaniac and greedy. To someone who is objectively looking at it, it would be the latter. But maybe that's over-simplified.

But I can't believe that Maharaji still holds those beliefs entirely. I just gotta believe that his failure to spread knowledge has to be obvious to him, and must have in some ways made him doubt his motivations, or his ability, or his sincerety, or something like that. It just doesn't seem possible that a human could be that deluded to not see that, and then make more cynical, conscious decisions to just play the role to get what he wants. Who knows?

But what you say about his followers is very significant to me, because the delusion there has to be substanitally less. It's like what Guy was saying about 'needing' or 'liking' being in the devotee role for a period of his life, and then he sort of outgrew it. Something like that. The idea that there are just people who 'need' to be in that role, and people who don't.

Maybe that's true, but to me it seems just a little dangerous to say that being a devotee to another human being, is ever a healthy thing, even if you like it, or you think you like it. I guess because there is always the danger that one would hang out in that role forever, and continually compromise and limit his or her life to keep it going, and because I just think being a devotee is really destructive to the human spirit to self-actualization, to ones ability to have meaningful relationships, etc.

That's what really irritates me when people say they just 'enjoy' being a premie, and being, to one degree or another, devoted to Maharaji. It's just such a closed system, that way, with so little in the way of thorough examination of what really is going on.

I guess I agree with the authors of 'The Guru Papers' in their contention that the devotee/master relationship is an authoritarian system that is inherently pathological and always prone to abuse. From this side of being a former devotee, I really think that's true.

Michael, your posts about your personal observations, and especially your feelings you had and continue to have about all this are really valuable. Thanks so much.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 18:26:23 (GMT)
From: Katie Darling
Email: None
To: donner
Subject: The codependent dance and larf potential
Message:
Never quite got it so clearly - the mutuality of the codependent dance we played with MJ.

Although I got quite a mouthful of 'that' codependent experience, I can't say I completed this pattern when I left MJ. This last weekend I was in a working situation in which I suddenly realized I had gone into a kind of 'service trance,' which felt quite blissful, but caused me to override my body yet again, and get an intense migraine. The weird thing is, the service trance felt fantastic when I was in it. Because I have been posting and reading here a lot recently, my cult experience was on my mind, and as I suddenly woke up and realized that I was enjoying giving myself away, I consciously flashed on moments of doing service as a premie, weak and exhausted, yet taking no thought for myself, because I was serving the Lord. A sort of extracurricular energy would take over, which I thought was me getting grace or accessing some infinite source or something, but which I now know was me running on pure adrenal energy. (I know because I barely have any adrenals left).

It is very funny to think that MJ lives within this belief system that he is doing premies a favor by indulging all his addictions. I see great potential for some great larfs if we develop this theme. Any takers?

love Katie Darling

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 20:09:05 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Katie Darling
Subject: M's excuse that (to him) justifies the whole trip
Message:
'doing premies a favor ...'

Is that really what he says to himself?

Good grief.

And to think that we thought we were gratifying him! (or Him, as the case may be).

In a strange way it reminds me of a movie that was just broadcast on UK television for the first time the other night - 'The Story of O' (the subtitled version).

I didn't get off on it much (maybe because of - or should that be despite - my experience as a masochistic premie?), but the parallels between devotion to a guru and the desire to want to be 'owned' by a lover (as apparently 'O' exhibited) were plain to see.

Sado-masochism and revering Maharaji might appear to be very strange bedfellows to anyone still 'in bed with' Maharaji, if you get my meaning. But self-justification can play strange tricks on one.

.
.
.

To think that M's ultimate excuse for all his excesses is: 'I was just doing it for the premies' -

jeez, .... it takes the biscuit, it really does.

.
.
And probably after that attempt at self-justification comes - 'I was only doing what my father wanted ...'

Peeeeyoooooooooo!

Isn't it about time all cults came with a mental health warning?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 02:35:15 (GMT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Story of O
Message:
Hmmm. O never said much except 'I love you' and that's all she needed back.

'IloveyouIloveyouIloveyou... thank you for coming toniiiight.'

We asked for it.

Yuk

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 22:43:36 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Rawat's self-delusion
Message:
When parents push a child unreasonably into being someone very special, those children sometimes develop Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

I think this is the only way to imagine Mr. Rawat's psychology.

These following thoughts are probably uppermost in Rawat's mind as they perpetually play themselves over and over again: 'I am the Master.' 'I am chosen and entitled.' 'People should serve me.'

There is no room for doubt in his mind.

I suggest that Mr. Rawat take the test and compare himself to the eight major symptoms. However, this disorder is typically so deeply ingrained that there is no cure.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 19:50:13 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Rawat's self-delusion
Message:
Interest site there, Way

this you might find funny -

I clicked (for reasons you won't want to know about) on the index and selected 'Schizophrenia; paranoid'.

Guess what it said?

'coming soon!'

whooooooooah there!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 00:50:49 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Whoa -- did you see this part
Message:
Great one Way. Right own!

Did you get a load of these parst:

Narcissistic personality disorder
Causes and Risks:
. . . Narcissistic people are unable to perceive themselves and others accurately. They often feel entitled to special treatment by others and can become demanding, angry, and easily offended.

Where have we heard about this before? Even us outsiders in the ashram saw the Kissimmee rant.

and this:

Symptoms:
reacts to criticism with feelings or rage, shame or humiliation
takes advantage of others to achieve own goals
self-important
exaggerates achievements and talents
preoccupation with fantasies of success, power, beauty, intelligence, or ideal love
unreasonable expectations of favorable treatment
requires constant attention and admiration
lacks empathy

Also this one -- the kicker:

Complications:
may interfere with relationship with others
alcohol use or drug abuse

Cognac and bong therapy, here we come. Yikes. Mata Ji and the Mahatmas created a monster. Even Saddle Pal is to blame, because I believe he was content to put his brother through this and ride the gravy train. Of course, he decided he could make his move when M married Marolyn and alienate many of the Indians against the white devil hussy, take over Prem Nagar, and strike out on his own quite handily.

Francesca

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 23:20:35 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Way
Subject: Rawat's self-delusion
Message:
Like in the twelve-step programs, once you've identified the problem and admitted you've got it, recovery is possible. But in this case, don't hold your breath - it's very precious!

Steve

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 11:43:55 (GMT)
From: Berni
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Greetings to you sane ppl from an old newbee
Message:
Hello everyone,
I'm an ole premie from the early days (now a long-time ex-premie) who used to pop in here many moons ago but have not had the time for some years ( too busy trying to make a living) and am glad to see the place still alive and kicking.
In fact it seems to have got much livelier - with Messrs Donner, Dettmers, la-ex et al giving some plausible insight into life at the centre of the phenomenon. It seems that GM was, and is, just like most of the rest of us when it comes to enjoying a little of what you fancy. I don't see a problem with that if what you fancy does not directly effect others in a detrimental way, which, from the accounts of all those who have been disturbed and abused by the whole premie life, is not the case with being a 'master of perfection'. Not to mention having a life's work that primarily involves misleading people/ selling an illusion - whether intentional or not.
Anyhow, it's all been said already. What I find more interesting on the site is the discussion of such things as the 'nature of consciousness', philosophy, psychology and all the other stuff that we all left behind when we decided to trust in the 'knowledge'.
I became a premie in the hope of finding out some truths about myself and the world we live in. Also to have the 'ultimate' experience, of course. When I dropped out ( over 10 years ago) I still wanted to pursue such things and, apart from having to spend a lot of time working to catch up with those who had followed a career rather than GM, found that the only way to carry on the quest for real knowledge was through education.
Nowadays, I don't have a lot of trust in anything that doesn't bring shed loads of money my way, and even then I know it's not everything ( I'm not really a cynical bread-head)
I do miss the naive belief that if only we stay true to our conscience then 'all will be added unto us'.
Unfortunately, even life as a premie, teaches that bad things happen to good people ( and vice-versa )
So I look forward to reading the posts here whenever I get the time - even though I have left thoughts of GM and the premie world far behind - thank goodness.
Berni
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 20:12:49 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Berni
Subject: Greetings, Berni and welcome back
Message:
Yes, aren't all those metaphysical discussion fun? I prefer them to dissing the Bratguru which gets just as boring as he is. Looking forward to your input. I hope you tell us a bit more about yourself.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 11:54:41 (GMT)
From: berni
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: Thanks for the Welcome
Message:
Thanks Pat and Richard for the welcome.
Not much to say about myself except wasted 20+ years chasing an illusion when I should have been looking elsewhere for some meaning to life's mystery - and maybe working towards a career that would have given me the power to 'make a difference'.
I thought that the best thing to do with my time was practice knowledge and all the rest would be ok. Bit of an error of judgement there which has not helped the old confidence much.
Just trying to get by these days.
One good thing about being in the premie crew was the many sincere similar minded companions that I encountered.
I still have some good friends both premies ( ok so long as we don't start talking about knowledge etc.) and exes - but now I see everyone as individuals rather than PWK's or PWithoutK and realise that the good in people is not determined by having a 'key to realisation' but by their kindness and loyalty.
Anyhow I will try and pop in whenever I can.
berni
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 19:35:33 (GMT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Berni
Subject: Greetings Berni and welcome
Message:
'the 'nature of consciousness', philosophy, psychology and all the other stuff that we all left behind when we decided to trust in the 'knowledge' '

This is something I am into these days - reawakening the admirable parts of myself that came to M & K. The spiritual, idealistic, revolutionary, creative, dedicated and curious person.

Thanks for posting.

Richard

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 17:12:38 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Berni
Subject: A lot of great people are/were pewks
Message:
Pewks=forumspeak for PWKs or premies with Knowledge

I have found it really great to contact them here, where they can freer with their ideas and what they have to share, then when we had to stay on 'the topic.'

Also is a great function to be the siren on the rocks, telling everyone to keep their boats in deep water, rather than shallow metaphysical ramblings from one who knows more about the state of congnac than the state of bliss. People who know the state of cognac, lsd, beer, wine or what-have-you can often say wise things. But we don't follow them, put them on thrones and give them lots of money.

Tx for sharing --f

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 20:46:02 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: Siren on the rocks you say ? ? ? ?
Message:
'telling everyone to keep their boats in deep water'

spoken like a true Siren

(you really want to be?)

.
.
.
From the encyclopaedia of greek mythology


Sirens (SYE-rinz)

Sweetly singing enchantresses, part woman, part bird, who lured sailors to their doom. Some say the Sirens had been given their wings in order to help Demeter
search for her daughter Persephone, who was abducted by the King of the Underworld. Their singing would have caused Odysseus to steer his ship into their rocks,
had he not ordered his men to bind him to the mast as a precaution. But it was no match for that of the minstrel Orpheus, who distracted his fellow Argonauts so they sailed by the Sirens safely.

Phew! don't tell me, Orpheus (the sweet voice of truth?) just came to the rescue?

(and I wonder how many people would have taken your version of events on trust?)

Dear oh dear, francesca, what have you gotten yourself into here?

(and don't call me Rocky).

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 22:38:55 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Siren on the rocks in reverse dear! n/t
Message:
n/t
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 17:25:31 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: People with Knowledge
Message:
In PWK, it's 'person' or 'people' not 'premie'. I don't think it's forumspeak (although the various abbreviated versions are), it's just how EV refer to premies since use of the word 'premie' was prohibited by Maharaji.

John.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 18:41:38 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Thanks for clarifying -- yes I forgot PC! n/t
Message:
n/t
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 19:31:23 (GMT)
From: berni
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: The state of Cognac
Message:
Thanks - I did wonder what PWK was. I suppose I am one of them but now that I regard 'knowledge' as non-existent that makes me someone with nothing - mind you I realised that a long time ago and made my departure from the premie world. I know what you mean when you say that people can be 'freer with their ideas and what they have to share, then when we had to stay on 'the topic'
There were and are so many talented, inspiring, witty premies - it's a shame that their energy was wasted in trying to realise the knowledge rather than continuing their search for truth and being open, honest communicators.
'People who know the state of cognac, lsd, beer, wine or what-have-you can often say wise things. But we don't follow them, put them on thrones and give them lots of money'
Shame that as I know something about the state of cognac ( a bit more about the state of whiskey and beer) - no really I get your point and agree.
I am surprised to hear that premie is no longer part of premie speak - long time out of touch. I did hear that the meditation is no longer meditation and that the light, nectar etc. are technique 1,2,3 & 4. If that's true it doesn't have quite the same ring to it.
Anyhow thanks John and Francesca for replying
Berni
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 20:18:37 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: berni
Subject: They're PWKs in west and still Premies
Message:
in India where the Bratguru always starts his sermons with ''Dear Premies'' and still talks about ''dhayan''(meditation) and service. But his market research company in US told him not to use those Hindu words in west.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 09:31:39 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: oh CatWeasel-------?????yoo hoo---!
Message:
cat, from following all your posts since i ex'ed in october, i conclude you are no premie.you go after people here like a stalker. you talk like a psychotic. you have some bizarre jihad mentality that doesn't resemble Knowledge or Rawat's indications where to look in life at all!

you say you are happy with 'what is'. but you come careening down on posters out of nowhere as if it were your personal vendetta to destroy them.

that isnt 'happiness with what is'

your chosen name combines the characteristics of two vicious hunter-killers. so does your alter ego, victoria bitter.

your make threats to us, here, and then cry for justice when someone uses your own tactics against you?

I hope john T does 'out' you, for the world's sake, the premies' sakes, and for your own. Once we know who you are, we can put the australian police on to your case. you are a dangerous individual. you clearly need to be locked away from society.

we may be able to succeed in this before Amaroo, to protect the others there. If not, we will alert festival security so that you will be apprehended at the gates and taken away from the event and arrested and isolated. you have visibly given us all the evidence we need.

i deeply doubt you have ever been a premie. i believe you probably are a stalker, who has found something to attach themselves to and to hunt down prey. the net is full of them, and so are the cities of the world. and they all give themselves away in time. they can't shut up about how clever they are, and it's their undoing, every time.

you know that minks are weasels, don't you? know how they kill em for mink coats?? they electrocute them up their anuses with hi voltage cattle prod stuns, and skin em alive while they're still stunned and can't bite.

i believe ECT is probably what you will get in custody. you seem to require it profoundly.

be sure and watch for the Light when they throw the switch. You'll be completely paralyzed and unable to move, from the muscle relaxants, but you should be completely conscious. It should be the greatest experience of your life. and after the course of treatments is run, all that hostility and venom will be gone. they'll seat you right up front at the next program, you'll be such a model of calm and tranquillity for all the premies.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 15:51:21 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: janet
Subject: My take on Catweasel
Message:
(as posted on AG when the forum was down)

Thanks to these last couple of posts, I've at last realised why Catweasel ONLY ever used/uses the forum to sneer at ex-premies and make threats, rather than discuss any issues raised there. And that is that Cat NEEDS to believe the forum is a fascistic power-trip for those hosting the site rather than the place of open discussion you [JHB] rightly identify it to be. He needs to believe there is something wrong with ex-premies generally, and that they as premies bore no resemblance to Catweasel the premie of today. That way he can avoid considering the possibilty that there is anything wrong with the cult itself or question his own faith in Margie.

The only way he can satisfy this need is by deliberately breaking the rules of engagement on the forum (ie. by multi-alias posting and making threats) in order to get himself banned, so he can start his pathetic bleat about being bullied and suppressed. If he took note of the critical but respectful way that Mel Bourne has always used the forum with imputy he should recognise the weakness of his argument).

In fact, Catweasel's stance is so pathetic I doubt he could even find a premie to back him up online.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 18:49:47 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: My take on Catweasel
Message:
Nigel, you give Cat way too much credit for having something akin to an operational brain which he's using in an abusive manner. The truth, more likely, is this poor soul is a former football player (Australian rules, no helmet and all that...) who's polished off one pint too many that's left him with a wet brain, hardly operational at all.

He certainly comes across that way, doesn't he?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 00:49:01 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: My take on Catweasel
Message:
Maybe you're right, Jerry, but I can't imagine an Australian rules footballer sucking foot, can you?

A couple of spies have independently suggested that CW is no Australian - just a sad, ex-pat premie Brit equally determined to prove his rugged Australianness (by constant unnecessary references) and maintain his rugged belief in Humpty by not looking at the flimsiness orf it all.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 16:12:27 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: See mine below to Patrick C.
Message:
Nigel,

You're so right that it'd be hard to imagine even a premie trying to defend this guy. It's actually kind of sad, isn't it? Sad and disgusting.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 23:27:51 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: State of cognac? Perhaps another alcoholic
Message:
crusty troll?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 02:09:12 (GMT)
From: ''You know who''
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: State of cognac? Perhaps another alcoholic FUCK YO
Message:
Pat bloody bitch thelma. You fucking fake faggot. I've been postinghere for three fucking years already and you just arrive4d yesterday you sad fucxk you. you call evrtgbody who disagros with you an alcoholic. I watch. I seen howe you go in the and rip the shit of anybody who comes and and calls you for what you are just another fucking poofter

who do youi think you are some sort of fucking satfucking guru saint. OOOh meditaiton so nice. Rawat sucks. You jealous or what and think you can do a better job Huh? If you could you stupid flowrchiold head otuta your arse for am minute. You sit ther in San Fransicko masturbating and smiking drugs and playing pussy with all your pretty young men and party party party alla time and think THATS what it means to be high and happyanand etc.

bullshit!!!!I'm not a alcohol and im not a crusty. So fuck you gagfag. I know all about you. do you thoink youre emails don't get sent to me by your fucking church ficking ladies huh? You pissed you didnt get to be mahatma th8inigamee so you coud get in all the pretty boy aspirants pants huh? You think you know where its at and that these peices of shit here are telling the truth about me all thos efucking lies.

well fuck the l;ot of you. Your a buch of idiots

signed you know who

and so what if I've been using other names like XXX, your friend, Catweasle etc. Fuck you all you havnt got a cluee

Hi guys, that's my version of the sort of letter that Rev Rawat would post here to the exes - Pat Conlon

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 03:45:38 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: ''You know who''
Subject: Maybe too close for comfort?
Message:
Er, that WAS you, Pat..?

Catweasel has made the odd, sick, mis-spelled homophobic post (alongside his regular odd, sick, mis-spelled non-homphobic posts) but never a post as long, sick or consistently homphobic or mispelled as yours - I think you're trying too hard, but admittedly it had me going for the first paragraph.. ;)

But given the weirdness of this medium I think it's important to avoid unnecessarily confusing the easily confused among us (ie., most of us when swiftly browsing) and maybe not a good time to impersonate a sociopathic asshole who is ripe for banning from the forum for life.

(But I sure understand where you're coming from..)

- unless it was the Catweasel itself impersonating Pat impersonating Catweasel, and in so doing showing more wit and invention than I thought him capable of. It's quite a hall of mirrors, really, isn't it?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Mar 22, 2001 at 05:43:07 (GMT)
From: such
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: perhaps just imbibed too much 'con yack'? (nt
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 20:20:40 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Sorry, Nige - just imagining Rawat as crusty troll
Message:
reading FV and making drunken posts after a bottle of cognac.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 15:52:32 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: And Catweasel's reply:
Message:
Hey Dickbrain!!!!

Aw just piss off Nigel , you puffed up poor pathetic excuse for a Human Being . Go Fuck yourself ... some more

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 18:54:28 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: I rest my case
Message:
He can't even remember his own name! Have another, Cat, the bar's closing soon. Stock up so you can keep those insults coming.

Aaaaarggghhhh!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 01:27:05 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: I rest my case
Message:
I probably down as many or more units-per-week than Catweasel, so don't blame the alcohol. Social inadequacy is an inevitable consequence of being too long in a cult. You can't interact properly any more - Catweasel is the best evidence for this that I know. (And he appears to drink Victoria Bitter - God help him)
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 12:51:01 (GMT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: what you don't understand janet is
Message:
CW is hidding from the vet. You know, trying to cut his balls so he will stop skwerting. but I must say, cw is a bit slippery.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 10:30:54 (GMT)
From: Cw
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: And I eat all the green Jelly Beans?(nt)
Message:
Great!You seem to have it all under control.You Gringo's!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 03:32:13 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Cw
Subject: Come on Cat! Answer a few questions!
Message:
First off, let me just say that I speak for the poor and oppressed. They say 'Hi' and thanks for the sweater.

On a more serious note, what do you think about recent developments on this site? We are both premies and we both go to the meetings. We both meditate and we both value the experience of Knowledge. We both have a relationship with Maharaji. In short we are both still in the loop, and have been fighting on the same side for years. Has anything changed for you Cat?

I'd like to ask a few questions if you don't mind. You can ignore them or rip me if you like.

1. Does the fact that M is apparently a heavy drinker have any effect on you, vis a vis his message that Knowledge will cure all your ills?

2. Does the fact that M is apparently a womanizer have any effect you, vis a vis his message that Knowledge will bring you total satisfaction?

3. Do the outrageous FAQs on the Elan Vital website have any effect on you, particularly the ones about M not ever portraying himself as a messiah (Krishna hat box and all).

4. Does the fact that M seems, seems to be more interested in the things of this world (i.e. boats, homes, planes etc.) rather than things of the Spirit; and living like a playboy rather than spreading Knowledge, have any effect you, vis a vis his message?

5. Does the fact that he has made mistakes in his life had any effect on you, vis a vis his being permanently merged with God consciousness and not needing to meditate?

6. Does that fact that the man we see on stage, seems to be different from the one backstage, mean anything to you? (Forget about the car accident, that could happen to anyone. I'm talking about character here, lack of appreciation, verbally abusing devotees etc.)

7. In short, have any of the recent revelations on this site changed the way you now look at Maharaji and listen to his message?

They certainly have had an effect on me, even though I still consider myself a premie and attend videos. For me a shift has happened and I can't deny it. Maharaji has come down a peg or two.

Hey, you can keep on as if nothing has changed if you like! That's fine by me. To each his own. I'm just interested in finding out if recent developments have had any effect you and your relationship with Maharaji.

I'm all ears!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 13:35:58 (GMT)
From: Pussy Cat , Pussycat, (CW
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Your Delicious and all my wishes would all come t
Message:
(1) He most definitely does not say K will cure all your ills . Quite the opposite really. As for his drinking(alleged),well I dont live with him, so it really does not affect me.

(2)No. I've never met a woman who gives total satisfaction. Look, if you think she exists , I'll keep looking and testing.
Answer: Does not affect me in the slightest. As my five close friends above will attest, I am a psycho ,looser?. Not a spiritual bone in my body. Relationships are private things - where do you get off assuming you know some-one else's?

(3)No.To me he was always M.
(4)Value judgement.I dont care about Greg Norman , Russell Crowe, or Tom Cruise either.My link with M is what I practice.OK?
(5) God, where did you pull that one from? You believed that?
On what basis do you think he made mistakes? For instance would you allow M.Dettmers to tell you how to live your life?
Me , I'd tell him to piss off.And guess what.....
(6)I could give you a bit of insight here Dog.But I'll leave it in the freezer. Lets just say it really has no effect on me....Have YOU seen him do that. Do YOU ever do that?
(7)No. Why should they? I dont need second hand reports from puffed up ego maniacs to formulate my opinion on M.

Tell me this Dog.If you have K and practice it ,listen to M when he talks about practising K..when you want to..What else do you need out of your relationship there. You wanna make his Salad?
That's the thing that has fucked every wannabe here. They dont understand basic mathematics. They could never be satisfied unless they were physically close to M. And considering another 20,000 wannabees had the same desire;guess what?Me? I'm content to be alive and enjoying the ride.But when you want what you cant have....
Ok ,now x's..go for it ...Free shot at Catweasel
Ridicule her , spew bile on her . Fuck her over. Maybe we can push the Weasel into answering they way we would like.

By the way Janet, you have plenty of time. Check out the American Indian mythology on the Weasel.You'll find it most interesting Bye now

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 17:22:32 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Pussy Cat , Pussycat, (CW
Subject: Look at what you've become, Cat
Message:
You're very, very, VERY ugly. Really, you have one fo the ugliest personalities I've ever encountered .....

and I'm a criminal lawyer, for god's sake!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 21:38:23 (GMT)
From: CW
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Look at what you've become, jim
Message:
Jim ,do I have to tell you what everyone other than your bunch of fawning iconaclast buddies thinks?
That you you just posted a self descriptive narrative.And I believe you are a criminal lawyer. Lot avery good one who defends pedophiles yet whines on here about the same.Hypocrit.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Mar 22, 2001 at 04:49:53 (GMT)
From: The ArchAngel CATWEASEL
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: Look at what you've become, jim
Message:
OK, OK let's correct it

Hypocrite
Piss poor criminal lawyer {(small c) reflecting personality type}
NOT A VERY GOOD ONE!
So now Nigel, Jerry, JBH and the recently recruited Janet, go for it.Let the gang of five , 'the famous five' hit the deprogramme button.
WHAT! OH MY GOD! WE ARE SPINNING OUT OF CONTROL>>>AAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!
You said it would work Jim! Jim? Wake up Jim ...OH NOOO ..He's passed out .......

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Mar 22, 2001 at 04:27:04 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: Hey, maybe Cat's right. Anyone got an opinion?
Message:
In its inimitable style, the ever eloquent Cat criticized, critiqued, judged and evaluated me as follows:

... I believe you are a criminal lawyer. Lot [sic] avery [sic] good one who defends pedophiles yet whines on here about the same.Hypocrit[sic].

I assume he's referring to any clients of mine charged with a sexual offence regarding kids and my complaints here about Jagdeo. Now I have my own views about this, natch, but I'm just wondering, how many people think the same thing? Anyone?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Mar 22, 2001 at 10:01:13 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Maybe Cat's right. Anyone got an opinion? Yes!
Message:
From what little I know about your last pedophile case (from the article you posted here) it seems that your client may have made an error of judgement brought about by his testosterone reacting to a Lolita but that there was no malicious intent on his part.

But I'm a liberal and you didn't really tell us enough about the case to draw any really satisfying conclusions.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Mar 22, 2001 at 13:28:27 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: It's the principle, not the specifics of 1 case...
Message:
To guarantee justice for the definitely innocent you must provide the same quality of legal defence to the definitely guilty (or those you believe to be so). I'm not sure Cat can grasp this essential priniciple of any fair legal system. He hasn't suggested an alternative, has he? Wonder why.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Mar 22, 2001 at 17:35:55 (GMT)
From: CW
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: It's the principle, not the specifics of 1 case...
Message:
Oh but I can Nigel. Legal counsel have choice . James chose to defend the pedophile
And dont bother coming over all proper about legal systems with me Nasty. I know a damn sight more about them than you do.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Mar 22, 2001 at 19:09:32 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: CW
Subject: It's the principle, not the specifics of 1 case...
Message:
Ok, so I assume you approve at least of the idea that every defendant is entitled to counsel? So who's going to defend the 'probably guilty'? And what would you do about the 'definitely guilty' who nobody wanted to defend? Jagdeo, say? (And you further accept that guilt is often a grey area prior to a hearing?)

Do you know the full facts of the case you cited? Unless you've something relevant and informed to say about Jim's case - like you were the guy involved, say - then your comparison with the Jagdeo issue makes you look not only less of a legal eagle than you pretend to be, but also rather stupid and bit sad.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Mar 23, 2001 at 01:41:28 (GMT)
From: CW
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: It's the principle, not the specifics of 1 case...
Message:
Principle is Principle. There's nothing sad about what I said. Pedophillia is abhorrent.I have friends who simply refuse to defend rock spiders.No matter what the logic involved . Now in Jim's case he takes the high moral ground on the Jagdeo incident yet he's quite happy to take the States money to defend a pedophile. DOUBLE STANDARD Nigel
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Mar 22, 2001 at 05:12:13 (GMT)
From: such
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: well,are you?If so,he made a point.Otherwise,No...
Message:
but even Jagpedo probably has a right to a public defender. but looks like it will never come to that...
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 15:44:40 (GMT)
From: New-Age Redneck
Email: None
To: Pussy Cat , Pussycat, (CW
Subject: Which Nation?
Message:
'......Check out the American Indian mythology on the Weasel.You'll find it most interesting Bye now'

So, to which Native American nation do you refer?

CW, just like sooooooo many others, you lump ALL Native Americans into a single pot with regards to their beliefs. You will find, after a very small amount of research, that there are significant differences. Believe it or not..... SOME Native Americans never even saw a weasel.....

Why don't you stick to what you really know..... oh wait, that would be 'nothing'.....

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Mar 22, 2001 at 02:08:14 (GMT)
From: Cheyene(nt)
Email: None
To: New-Age Redneck
Subject: Which Nation?
Message:
jhjh
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 21:28:38 (GMT)
From: CW
Email: None
To: New-Age Redneck
Subject: Which Nation?
Message:
Abuse,Abuse,Abuse
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Mar 22, 2001 at 01:40:34 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: Victoria, sweetie dahling, are you a masochist?
Message:
You don't have to reply to abusive posters if you don't WANT to. You can always talk to nice little me. And I mean that.

You always ignore all the nice posts that I make to you and head straight for your abusers. Talk to me, please.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Mar 22, 2001 at 02:05:43 (GMT)
From: CW
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: Victoria, sweetie dahling, are you a masochist?
Message:
It's the process the the goon Squad believe is necessary to brewak down poor deluded fools like me (heh ,heh, Homer Simpson style.
Water off a Duck's back.
So I will have a chat later, lil buddy
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Mar 22, 2001 at 02:12:25 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: Victoria, sweetie dahling, promise? NT
Message:
k
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 06:23:22 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Go, Dog, Go!
Message:
(Sorry, I had to read that book to my little brother about 500 times. It's a good book.)

That was a great post, Dep - thanks.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 04:53:17 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: i bow to you dog. you have graduated to manhood!
Message:
these are excellent. every premie should be asking themselves these questions. they should be posted on a site put up by a premie for premies.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 04:29:44 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Cat and Dog fight! Well said Dog
Message:
You are a mensch, son. I'm on your side. Sic the pussy, boy. Good Dog.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 06:44:08 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Some new guru graphic art
Message:
inspired by suchabanana, da lil' swami who's always fulla lentils.

Breathe, you sucker!

Love you all, you made me laugh so hard tonight I hope that I can return da favor.

JAI SACKA BLONDES (with apologies to Susan)

==f

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 05:48:23 (GMT)
From: TD
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: Question: Who's Rod McKuen? (nt)
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 05:54:22 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: TD
Subject: God, you are a child ::))
Message:
He was this really, really awful 'poet' who wrote a couple of books of poetry in the late 60s. One was called 'Into the Warm.'

It was absolute drek. Just the worst. But he got kind of popular and went on the Sonny & Cher Show and read his garbage with schocky music in the background.

That you have never heard of him is wonderful to hear.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 06:07:21 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: I agree - about the wonderful part anyway.
Message:
My mom had some of Rod McKuen's books - YUCK!!!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 00:44:55 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: Frannie, were you this funny in the cult?
Message:
You really crack me up with these pictures. Very creative. I never realized you had such a wry sense of humor. I wish I had known you better than, you probably would have cheered me up a lot.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 02:45:07 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Frannie, were you this funny in the cult? Yes, Joe
Message:
The first time I met her face to face (was it in the upstairs satsang room in Berkeley in Dec 78 and I had just heard you sing live for the first time and figured out who you were?) one look at the twinkle in her eye and I started laughing (inside of course - I was a pretty neurotic ''bad premie'' in those days.)

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 00:34:59 (GMT)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: yer mirth doth warm me 2 ze cockles(genus Cardium)
Message:
Francesca:

Actually, I am a reincarnated British poet, at heart. [hint: Tintern Abbey, anyone?] But my mother was a humble mistress of the dolly llama...

Frankly, I think I shall never see
anything as pathetic as M's poetry,
It ranks right up with performance art,
crucifixes in urine, a Napoleon smelling his own fart...

-- Prem McKuen

Peace and juicy lentils,

da lil' swami

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 03:11:06 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: suchabanana, Pat, Joe
Subject: Juicy lentils y'all
Message:
Joe -- I used to escape to the Haight and hang out with Pat and Chuck and Michael Lasseigne, and Ben Konezewski, and Sai, and Mark Sabonavich, and we had a whole community there.

But even in the 'shram, it was amazing what people would say when you had a heart-to-heart. Oh we toiled and tried. But we didn't make the grade. Thank the goddesses and the gods.

M as Krishna
M as God
I hate to tell him
he ain't got THE BOD!

===Hindu Wobble Homie

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 16:39:27 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: that was GREAT!!!!!
Message:
All praises to Francesca, I loved it.

Did you see the SNL parody during the Clinton /Lewinsky thing?

Blue dress from GAP 39 dollars
Fancy cigars 100 dollars
Masturbating with a friend in the Oval Office while you talk on the phone with world leaders....priceless.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 17:13:35 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: SNL -- good one! n/t
Message:
n/t
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 17:35:47 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: Technical question (ot)
Message:
Excuse my internet ignorance, but how do you get a link to show up in your post? I'm slowly learning how to set up a web-page (I'm looking for some 'before and after' pictures), but I can't figure out how to make a link appear on the forum. How do you do that?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 17:56:15 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: click on Forum Help at the bottom
Message:
all the secrets of posting are contained there.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 18:44:32 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: Thanks, Susan -- should have looked there (nt)
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 14:47:16 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: wwilliam@kumc.edu
To: Francesca
Subject: Francesca, please email re Pat Halley (nt)
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 07:52:09 (GMT)
From: old fink
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: Some new guru graphic art
Message:
Good one...but some lines are obscured. Doesn't he look happy! You would be too!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 14:29:31 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: old fink
Subject: hit the 'up' arrow on the pop-up box
Message:
that can cover stuff depending upon your browser or your browser settings. With mine, it doesn't, but I get rid of it anyway.

Glad you got a chuckle

--f

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 05:18:37 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: it needs a table in html to separate parts.
Message:
with my browser the ducks fall smack in the middle of the text. if you made a table and placed each photo pr text block in a cell, it could not wander out of place.

the sitting ducks crack me up.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 18:56:27 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Thanks, for when I have time -- I've never
Message:
done tables. I think the program was automatically supposed to generate them. Grrr! It probably is only optimized for current versions of Netscape and IE, but is ignoring WebTV. Thanks for the feedback. I know that when I use my mom's TV some of the web pages go crazy (including Hotmail, which is owned by Microsoft, which also owns WebTV Networks -- oh evil bill).

By the way, those are trumpeter swans, for the dear Lard! But sitting ducks is a great concept!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 07:00:44 (GMT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: A career in advertising you could of had
Message:
Excellent ad F. Oh, and the GetSmart cards are in the works.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 10:03:23 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: So elegant, Fran? But you better change
Message:
Master Card (TM) to something else like....I'm fresh out of puns.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 14:30:29 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: Changed it to Master Cad, thanx n/t
Message:
no text
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 20:20:26 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: Master Cad - Perfect! NT
Message:
h
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 20, 2001 at 07:34:38 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Can't wait!!! (Just WALK!) n/t
Message:
just walk on by ....
Return to Index -:- Top of Index