Forum V: Archive
Compiled: Thurs, Mar 29, 2001 at 19:54:59 (GMT)
From: Mar 22, 2001 To: Mar 28, 2001 Page: 4 Of: 5


moldy warp -:- M's evil words from cq's link in thread below -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 14:31:02 (GMT)
__ Nigel -:- Almost missed this one. -:- Sun, Mar 25, 2001 at 22:07:22 (GMT)
__ G -:- reminds me of ... -:- Sun, Mar 25, 2001 at 03:54:12 (GMT)
__ Pat Conlon -:- Moldy, glad you reposted M's evil words -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 19:42:58 (GMT)
__ __ Sir Dave -:- That's a good post for my site, Pat -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 21:36:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ Katie Darling -:- That's a good post for my site, Pat -:- Sun, Mar 25, 2001 at 02:05:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- It's that evil santaism, Katie D -:- Sun, Mar 25, 2001 at 20:05:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Thanks, Sir Dave - NT -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 21:52:50 (GMT)
__ such -:- walk on razor's edge, get cut. bloody painful! -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 19:18:35 (GMT)
__ __ such -:- EPO: a safety Net for Prem's high-wire ACT?! (nt -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 19:42:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ such -:- armchair traveler no go?but m show armchair kn.(nt -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 19:48:34 (GMT)
__ Richard -:- On precisely what does he base this assertion? -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 18:29:50 (GMT)
__ moldy warp -:- M's evil words BTW were said only 5 months ago nt -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 17:51:22 (GMT)
__ Hal -:- premie heaven -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 17:15:36 (GMT)
__ __ Moldy Warp -:- premie heaven and I thought M would take us there -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 17:30:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ Hal -:- Cringe. Can't just blame him though....... -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 17:39:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Dermot -:- Hal/Moldy...funny but true 'cringe' posts nt -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 22:06:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ moldy warp -:- Cringe. Know wot you mean Embarrassing confessions -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 17:45:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ cq -:- hey, moldy! have you got those satsangs in print? -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 17:59:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ moldy warp -:- hey, moldy! have you got those satsangs in print? -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 19:16:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Hal -:- Cringe. Know wot you mean Embarrassing confessions -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 17:55:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ moldy warp -:- To Hal Cringe. Good job our kids had some sense -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 19:31:30 (GMT)
__ Ms. P. -:- M's evil words from cq's link in thread below -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 17:01:17 (GMT)
__ __ Pat Conlon -:- Welcome Miss P, good to have you here NT -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 19:23:08 (GMT)
__ __ Susan -:- welcome to Ms. P (nt) -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 18:18:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ Ms. P. -:- Hey Susan, how R ya? -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 18:54:44 (GMT)
__ __ Monmot -:- Yo yo yo, Ms. P..... -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 18:14:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ Ms. P. -:- Mucho Gracias, Monmot -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 18:20:17 (GMT)
__ __ Marianne -:- Karmic whiplash -- great phrase -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 18:04:45 (GMT)
__ __ Katie H. -:- Welcome, Ms. P -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 17:45:47 (GMT)
__ __ Babs -:- Welcome -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 17:36:58 (GMT)
__ __ Moldy Warp -:- Welcome Ms P nt -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 17:21:59 (GMT)
__ __ Joy -:- Welcome, Ms. P! -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 17:10:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ Ms. P. -:- Welcome, Ms. P! -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 17:47:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Richard -:- Welcome, Ms. P from another IHQ survivor -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 18:01:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Katie Darling -:- Me too, an IHQ survivor... -:- Sun, Mar 25, 2001 at 02:52:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Richard -:- Katie: ex-IHQies -:- Sun, Mar 25, 2001 at 03:58:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Babs -:- 401 -:- Sun, Mar 25, 2001 at 04:57:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Richard -:- How about a regressive therapy IHQ tour? -:- Sun, Mar 25, 2001 at 06:34:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie Darling -:- 401 -:- Sun, Mar 25, 2001 at 06:29:50 (GMT)
__ Sir Dave -:- He's getting desperate -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 15:43:19 (GMT)
__ Sir Dave -:- M's evil words from cq's link in thread below -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 15:37:15 (GMT)
__ __ la-ex -:- Sir D: I like what you say about teachers... -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 19:47:54 (GMT)
__ bill---This is classic -:- buddha style bullshit. -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 15:13:27 (GMT)
__ cq -:- evil? or just misguided? -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 15:05:11 (GMT)

Jim -:- A few questions for CD -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 03:48:45 (GMT)
__ CD -:- A few -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 21:14:39 (GMT)
__ __ Jerry -:- Hey, Jim! -:- Sun, Mar 25, 2001 at 00:31:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- He is to this forum like a piece of toilet paper -:- Sun, Mar 25, 2001 at 01:03:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ bill -:- The old boy is an ex. A disappointed one.....nt -:- Sun, Mar 25, 2001 at 05:22:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ bill -:- CD what do you think of .net.....?.....nt -:- Sun, Mar 25, 2001 at 05:24:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ CD -:- CD what do you think of .net.....?.....nt -:- Sun, Mar 25, 2001 at 20:13:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Are all premies alcoholics like their Master? NT -:- Sun, Mar 25, 2001 at 02:05:50 (GMT)

Steve Quint -:- Tribute To William Hanna (ot) -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 02:49:41 (GMT)
__ cq -:- you're right about that, Steve -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 16:15:17 (GMT)
__ suchaHannaBarbanana -:- Yogi's cave is great for meditating!picnics,too(nt -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 07:38:25 (GMT)

Lester -:- And it feels good -:- Fri, Mar 23, 2001 at 23:45:24 (GMT)
__ Jerry -:- Welcome aboard, Lester -:- Sun, Mar 25, 2001 at 00:46:29 (GMT)
__ Cynthia -:- Many Thanks, Lester -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 18:21:11 (GMT)
__ __ Marianne -:- Welcome to your life, Lester -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 18:36:04 (GMT)
__ Katie H. -:- Lester, thanks! -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 16:13:33 (GMT)
__ Dermot -:- Hey Lester, welcome aboard the freedom train nt -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 14:40:35 (GMT)
__ wolfie -:- And it feels good -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 14:18:44 (GMT)
__ Sandy -:- Clarification -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 14:15:57 (GMT)
__ Abi -:- And it feels good -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 12:47:53 (GMT)
__ Salam -:- Happy posting -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 09:11:00 (GMT)
__ Loaf -:- Hi Lester (and Glen !) -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 08:36:55 (GMT)
__ __ Katie H. -:- 'Baby throwing festival' - good one, Loaf :)! nt -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 16:15:59 (GMT)
__ Brian Smith -:- We are on the same page brother, keep on reading -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 05:48:05 (GMT)
__ __ Moldy Warp -:- Wonderful post about own experience Brian nt -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 13:43:05 (GMT)
__ __ suchabanana -:- Lester, lotsa Peace and lentils to ya,brother! (nt -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 07:29:30 (GMT)
__ __ Pat Conlon -:- Brian thanks for that beautiful post -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 06:16:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ Brian Smith -:- Now it is just truth of a different experience nt -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 09:34:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Now it is just truth, nothing but the truth -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 10:12:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Brian Smith -:- Thank you Pat -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 20:39:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Thank you Brian for speaking the truth -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 21:17:41 (GMT)
__ Brian -:- And it feels good -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 03:10:32 (GMT)
__ la-ex -:- Great post,Lester.Your sentimenats are mine.... -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 01:23:13 (GMT)
__ __ Joy -:- That's A Great Idea, La-ex -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 02:06:35 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- Great post, Lester -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 01:15:07 (GMT)
__ __ Roy -:- Great post, Lester -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 04:46:47 (GMT)
__ Susan -:- thanks for posting -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 01:05:57 (GMT)
__ Steve Quint -:- And it feels good -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 00:54:42 (GMT)
__ Bin Liner -:- Welcome Lester Fuck the Pied Piper (nt) -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 00:49:52 (GMT)
__ Tony Walker (Aussi Ji) -:- Welcome to the beginning of freedom. -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 00:49:14 (GMT)
__ Joe -:- Terrific -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 00:40:12 (GMT)
__ Gregg -:- And it feels good -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 00:32:02 (GMT)
__ Pat Conlon -:- Lester, welcome and it is good to have you here -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 00:26:06 (GMT)
__ __ Pat Conlon -:- Hi, Mahatma Monitor Glen Whittaker Ji, -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 00:30:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ cerise -:- dad knows Glen! -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 04:56:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ salam -:- So now you can rub shoulders -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 05:26:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Joe -:- dad knows Glen! -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 05:04:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ cerise -:- dad knows Glen! -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 05:45:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- Glen also lied to the Guardian newspaper -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 08:23:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ cerise -:- Glen also lied to the Guardian newspaper -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 13:29:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- judge for yourself, cerise -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 16:09:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ cerise -:- judge for yourself, cerise -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 16:31:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Steve Quint -:- Methinks They Doth Protest Too Much -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 16:31:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Hi Steve, How are Ya! -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 18:32:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Glen, is this true? I always was bit leery of you -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 09:03:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- cerise, I probably kow your dad too -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 05:02:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ cerise -:- Now he knows I'm hangin with nice people! -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 05:53:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- cerise, - does your dad know Julie Collett? -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 06:49:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Lesley -:- Julie Collett? -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 21:58:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Julie Collett? Lesley, Rawat freaked her out -:- Sun, Mar 25, 2001 at 02:02:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ cerise -:- yes Pat he does, -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 07:18:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Lesley -:- to 'cerise' -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 23:30:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Cerise, tell your dad that I recently heard -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 09:31:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ cerise -:- photo of a modern nun? -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 13:37:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Cerise says: I would lie (and have tons of times) -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 20:36:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- but the lies are still deceiving people (nt) -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 16:22:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ You Should Know -:- 'SalAm' not 'Salem' ... -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 06:23:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ cerise -:- Well I DON'T Know!!! -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 06:52:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Salam's mum -:- Well I DON'T Know!!! -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 13:06:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- hangin with nice people, cerise -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 06:12:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- PS, Glen, if you see Beth Burrell -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 01:39:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ JHB -:- Beth was my first Ashram housemother -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 08:28:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- John were you in Brighton in 75 -76? -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 09:23:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- John were you in Brighton in 75 -76? -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 12:15:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ such -:- PS, Glen Witacre, if you see Kay... (mt -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 07:10:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ Joy -:- Hi, Monitor Glen Whittaker Ji -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 01:30:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Well wisher -:- Anyone know Glen's birthday?We could all wish him -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 01:34:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ cq -:- anti-guru muck? Oh I see, everyone should be pro? -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 19:04:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ sean -:- bowlingshirtcaughtinthehedge ki jai! -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 22:54:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Monmot -:- Kudos to you, Lester, for your courage......nt -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 02:28:39 (GMT)

la-ex -:- Can anyone explain the 'vampire' archetype? -:- Fri, Mar 23, 2001 at 23:07:44 (GMT)
__ Richard -:- Yeah, it bites and sucks big time -:- Sun, Mar 25, 2001 at 02:00:51 (GMT)
__ such -:- maybe she meant that old tv pilot... -:- Sun, Mar 25, 2001 at 01:57:07 (GMT)
__ __ Hollywood Reporter -:- funny you should mention that... -:- Sun, Mar 25, 2001 at 02:25:54 (GMT)
__ janet -:- Can anyone explain the 'vampire' archetype? -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 09:10:07 (GMT)
__ __ Mercedes -:- 'vampire' archetype -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 16:44:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ la-ex -:- Thanks.BTW,Myss was talking about M...nt -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 19:29:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Monmot -:- Hey, la-ex, do you think that Myss' talk... -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 20:01:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ la-ex -:- A bit more about Myss's talk, and M.... -:- Sun, Mar 25, 2001 at 02:52:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Monmot -:- Thanks, la-ex. I did notice.... -:- Sun, Mar 25, 2001 at 15:11:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Richard -:- la-ex is there a tape available of Myss's talk? nt -:- Sun, Mar 25, 2001 at 06:16:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ la-ex -:- probably,but Mstuff likely edited out as OT nt -:- Sun, Mar 25, 2001 at 15:22:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Helen -:- vampires -:- Sun, Mar 25, 2001 at 00:12:43 (GMT)

Joe -:- Amtext -:- Fri, Mar 23, 2001 at 22:45:18 (GMT)
__ Michael Dettmers -:- Amtext -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 04:03:26 (GMT)
__ __ Red light! -:- Amtext -:- Sun, Mar 25, 2001 at 02:56:23 (GMT)
__ __ bill -:- Thanks Michael Dettmers, have a great trip..nt -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 15:16:56 (GMT)
__ __ anon -:- ask Steve Gross about Amtext (nt -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 07:17:45 (GMT)
__ __ Joe -:- Amtext -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 04:45:41 (GMT)
__ Daneane -:- Amtext -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 03:03:25 (GMT)
__ __ B.B. -:- Daneane,can you explain about the Cal. amtext ?nt -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 04:19:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ Daneane -:- Daneane,can you explain about the Cal. amtext ?nt -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 06:19:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ Joe -:- Text Mart is the California division of Amtext -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 04:35:29 (GMT)
__ B.B. -:- Amtext -:- Fri, Mar 23, 2001 at 23:24:22 (GMT)
__ __ For the Record -:- Amtext -:- Sun, Mar 25, 2001 at 02:44:30 (GMT)
__ __ Joe -:- Amtext -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 00:32:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ B.B. -:- Brains?In that operation?I don't think so.... -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 01:30:35 (GMT)

cq -:- the poster called Hanuman thinks M is God, I think -:- Fri, Mar 23, 2001 at 20:34:41 (GMT)
__ hanuman -:- the poster called Hanuman thinks M is God, I think -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 11:15:32 (GMT)
__ __ Bin Liner -:- Put the organ grinder on line please . (nt) -:- Sun, Mar 25, 2001 at 01:35:13 (GMT)
__ __ Hal -:- Hi Han u are a man -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 22:19:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ hanuman -:- Hi Han u are a man -:- Sun, Mar 25, 2001 at 07:38:46 (GMT)
__ __ Pat Conlon -:- Hanuman you are the best FV satirist since Pauline -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 19:00:54 (GMT)
__ __ such -:- I remember ramtha;past incarnation!worked atBoeing -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 18:40:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ cq -:- hey swami! you in India by any chance? -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 19:56:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ suchabanana -:- Apni hosti jo te re, tumko hari tori,oh say manna -:- Sun, Mar 25, 2001 at 01:37:16 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- Oh my God! Bal Bhagwan Ji must have been right! -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 17:33:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ hanuman -:- Oh my God! Bal Bhagwan Ji must have been right! -:- Sun, Mar 25, 2001 at 07:45:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ such -:- I sat on stage 3 days - I levitate but Astrodome -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 18:46:08 (GMT)
__ __ JHB -:- Hanuman, is this true? -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 12:27:21 (GMT)
__ __ salam -:- do you thiunk he has web tv too? -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 12:16:02 (GMT)
__ __ janet -:- this thorazine is time released for 30 days. -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 12:03:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ hanuman -:- this thorazine is time released for 30 days. -:- Sun, Mar 25, 2001 at 07:53:48 (GMT)
__ __ Tim Matheson -:- Thanks, Hanuman -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 11:44:51 (GMT)
__ suchabanana -:- Let's just give the poor chimp a break [+ bananas] -:- Fri, Mar 23, 2001 at 22:07:26 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- as Simians ourselves, let's not be too ... -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 15:17:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ such -:- monkey see, monkeydoo; hanuman worship Cheetah... -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 17:46:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ cq -:- cheetah say, ask Judi (from Daktari) Daktari say: -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 18:50:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ such -:- http://www.citizenlunchbox.com/monkey/GIFS/cheetah -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 18:56:18 (GMT)
__ __ salam -:- bananaji------ot -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 04:38:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ such -:- let's have a Beetles reunion! (OT -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 07:07:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Salam -:- Roger that -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 09:09:04 (GMT)
__ Francesca -:- Another premie on the ropes, or thinking that -:- Fri, Mar 23, 2001 at 22:01:02 (GMT)
__ __ JHB -:- NO! Hanuman's cool - Read his post above! -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 12:30:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ cq -:- Reconverted John?? What R the lottery numbers?(nt\ -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 14:34:47 (GMT)
__ __ Brian Smith -:- This hanuman character is incredibly boring -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 10:01:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- This hanuman is a ''spiritual cartoon character'' -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 10:10:21 (GMT)

Gregg -:- 21st century PWK's -:- Fri, Mar 23, 2001 at 16:58:00 (GMT)
__ Joy -:- 21st century PWK's -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 17:32:51 (GMT)
__ Pat Conlon -:- 21st century PWK's - mostly 70s premies, 50s -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 02:12:18 (GMT)
__ Kev -:- 21st century PWK's -:- Fri, Mar 23, 2001 at 20:37:21 (GMT)
__ cq -:- 21st century PWK's -:- Fri, Mar 23, 2001 at 18:50:38 (GMT)
__ __ Mercedes -:- 21st century PWK's -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 17:11:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ cq -:- Today's kids are too smart to fall for M's spiel -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 17:35:53 (GMT)
__ __ Moldy warp -:- M's evil words from cq's link. -:- Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 14:17:27 (GMT)
__ __ Joe -:- Looks like an advert for 'Depends' -:- Fri, Mar 23, 2001 at 20:41:41 (GMT)
__ __ Aghast -:- The Greys are coming! nt -:- Fri, Mar 23, 2001 at 19:34:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ cq -:- 'let me take you to my... er, non-leader'? nt -:- Fri, Mar 23, 2001 at 20:08:59 (GMT)


Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 14:31:02 (GMT)
From: moldy warp
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: M's evil words from cq's link in thread below
Message:
about PWKS.I brought this up top cos Fv is moving so fast it would probably not get read otherwise.This has made me literally shake with rage. It encapsulates what is so wrong with Lard's 'message'. It instill fear, it makes you feel you can't trust yourself. It makes you feel that you are on the edge of an abyss and without Lard you will fall in. And it makes it abundantly clear (PLEASE NOTE ALL PREMIES WHO POST HERE)that M considers himself THE MASTER without whom K will not work.Brace yourselves guys. It doesn't make comfortable reading:

'If life is like walking a tightrope, you'd going to need a balancing stick. If life is like walking a tightrope, you cannot afford to make any mistakes. If life is like walking a tightrope, then every step that you take needs to be careful and deliberately taken. You cannot run. Your focus, your attention needs to be very, very centered. We're talking about life. We're not talking about an experiment. We're not talking about a dream. We're talking about the ultimate reality.

Do you have the right balancing pole to walk this tightrope? You need that because balance is so critical and there is no room for mistakes. No first reprieve, no second reprieve, no third reprieve. If you lose it, you lose it. The force of gravity is acting continuously on you, and it's saying, 'You can't stay suspended up there, come down here.' And you reply, 'But. I can do this if I'm balanced.' And to augment that balance, you need a balancing rod, and the balancing rod is Knowledge. Without it, you're going to be a victim of your own ignorance, a victim of your own unconsciousness, a victim of own own misunderstanding.

And once you have the balancing rod, you have to listen - both to this heart and to the Master. You have to go slowly, one step at a time. Every step needs to be deliberate. Don't rush. There are people who have their balancing rod, but still they are reluctant. Listen. You must cross this in this lifetime. Don't waste your time in feeling afraid. You've got to do the walking. Spend your energy in being conscious, not afraid.

In this life, there are all these fears, 'What's going to happen to me?' 'Can I really do this?' 'I don't know if I can do this.' 'Am I ready?' 'What if I fail? What if I slip? What if I fall?' But come on, let's get it over with. Let's walk this tightrope. Balancing rod in hand, and listening to the Master, be ready to take each step. It's okay. Do it, go on. Enjoy it. And the next thing you know, you're on the other side. It's not a puzzle.

The armchair traveler isn't going anywhere. He doesn't even need a ticket.

Some people say, 'You don't need a Master.' The consequences have not hit home yet, have they? Because here is a person who hasn't been anywhere. Here is an armchair traveler. How does he do his traveling? He sits back and says, 'Hmm. Japan would be a nice place to go. Yeah, I think I'm going to go to Japan. Oh, on the other hand, India would be a nice place to go. Yeah, I think I'll go to India.' He hasn't decided on anything yet. The armchair traveler doesn't go anywhere. And his advice is: you don't need a guide. Of course, anybody in that person's position doesn't even need a ticket. They're not going anywhere, it's just fantasy and imagination.'

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Date: Sun, Mar 25, 2001 at 22:07:22 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: moldy warp
Subject: Almost missed this one.
Message:
Thanks for bringing it back up, Moldy, and I can see why it got you mad. That is SO like the satsangs from the late-seventies super-devotional era, isn't it? I mean, all that's missing is the word 'devotion'. Manipulation through fear. I haven't checked out the responses lower down, yet, but I'd love to see whether any of our pet premies have responded - the ones who claim there is no heavy trip or mind-fuck going on.

Satsangs like this deserve a permanent home somewhere.

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Date: Sun, Mar 25, 2001 at 03:54:12 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: moldy warp
Subject: reminds me of ...
Message:
'If life is like walking a tightrope...'

It isn't.

'You must cross this in this lifetime. Don't waste your time in feeling afraid.'

Cross what? What the fuck is he talking about? Talk about a ton of implied meanings about vague concepts, and what a mind fuck. This is disgusting. It reminds me of him telling initiators that he knew what was going to happen to them and that 'Some of you won't make it.' He said last year that religions play upon peoples' fears. He knows from experience.

This is from someone who has said all sorts of things about death. When he was young he would go on and on about reincarnation, as if he know all about it. He even talked about what goes on between lives, something about the 'hydrolics' involved. I think the quote is on this site. One time he insinuated that maybe we were devotees before. Later on he switched his story and said 'Is there reincarnation, in my opinion, no.' Later he admitted about what happens after death: 'I don't know, at least I'm being honest.' [a rarity for him] Then later, about 2 years ago, he said 'It all ends.' Now he says this stuff, some vague reference to heaven and hell. He can't seem to make up his mind about what he knows.

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 19:42:58 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: moldy warp
Subject: Moldy, glad you reposted M's evil words
Message:
When I read them I had the same reaction as you. I cannot believe that I actually listened to such unhealthy, mentally crippled drivel and told myself that I did not understand it because I was trying to figure it out with my MIND not my heart.

He is indeed evil. He wants the premies to be mentally ill, dependent, confused and frightened. Or perhaps it's just that he is such a sick alcoholic in a dazed state that he thinks everybody is paranoid and twisted like him.

Either way he is pure poison and his religion is the sickest, most atavistic, primitive garbage since Savanarola or the Salem witch hunts.

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 21:36:37 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: That's a good post for my site, Pat
Message:
I'll put it in the 'What people think about Maharaji' section.

.. Dave

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Date: Sun, Mar 25, 2001 at 02:05:36 (GMT)
From: Katie Darling
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: That's a good post for my site, Pat
Message:
Pat, you've really got to stop being so polite and tell us how you REALLY feel.

Cackling across the bay xxxxx

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Date: Sun, Mar 25, 2001 at 20:05:15 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Katie Darling
Subject: It's that evil santaism, Katie D
Message:
You know where the Lord of the Universe is obsessed with his toys and is still trapped in the Freudian feces playing stage.
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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 21:52:50 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Thanks, Sir Dave - NT
Message:
j
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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 19:18:35 (GMT)
From: such
Email: None
To: moldy warp
Subject: walk on razor's edge, get cut. bloody painful!
Message:
even Great Wallendas fell off tightrope wire -- and died. Perhaps that was because they didn't use the Net.

Also, who needs guide to go to India? With internet, you don't even need travel agent.

So, leave tightrope walking for Prem -- up-tight, tied up in knots [like R.D. Laing]. Yes, Almighty Lord is using tight rope to tie up Master in knots. Such divine lila! haha But, the poor preemies... I shall pray for them now. Ciao!

Peace and lentils,

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 19:42:57 (GMT)
From: such
Email: None
To: everyone
Subject: EPO: a safety Net for Prem's high-wire ACT?! (nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 19:48:34 (GMT)
From: such
Email: None
To: everyone
Subject: armchair traveler no go?but m show armchair kn.(nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 18:29:50 (GMT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: moldy warp
Subject: On precisely what does he base this assertion?
Message:
I remember hearing the Tibetan Buddhist Sogyal Rimpoche read from his book Tibetan Book of Living and Dying. Afterwards I asked him sincerely, 'how does one really know about what happens after death?' His answer was, 'it's in the book'. Now I'm certain that was the answer suggested by his publisher to any question to help sell more books. Benign enough and the info in the book is quite uplifting, verifiable or not.

One thing to realize about these lamas and rimpoches is that they practice what they preach, day in day out and right up to the moment of death. So I give them way more credibility and poetic license than Maharaji who, while having personal power and charisma, has no apparent personal experience on which to base his statements. A CNN documentary on the Dalai Lama pointed out that he studies and meditates 6 hours a day. The only reason I compare M to HHDL is that M indicates he is a spiritual authority in his talk. During a personal crisis (Marolyn's near death brain aneurism), M's doctor allegedly suggest M calm down by practing K. M's response was reported to be 'I don't need to meditate, I'm beyond that.'

The one thing that caused me to quit 'participating' in 1988 was M's arrogant authoritarian stance. For a premie who has no inner authority, M is the perfect authoritarian master.

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 17:51:22 (GMT)
From: moldy warp
Email: None
To: everyone
Subject: M's evil words BTW were said only 5 months ago nt
Message:
X
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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 17:15:36 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: moldy warp
Subject: premie heaven
Message:
Is the implication that there is a little premie heaven where all the goody goody little church ladies go? A place where those lucky few can sing the praises of satguru for all eternity ?

The rest of us 6 billion are just lost in maya with no hope of true joy in this life or the next?????

Can't see it myself. Certainly the nollij doesn't bring premies more joyful existence than anyone else I encounter ( I know plenty of current premies ) so is the hope in that last breath , connecting to the infinite ?

What a load of absolute crap !!

hal

Just a sickening little cult. Crazy stuff eh?

Hal

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 17:30:26 (GMT)
From: Moldy Warp
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: premie heaven and I thought M would take us there
Message:
even if we had fallen off the tightrope etc etc. Do you remember his satsang about the NPP (nonpractising premie) who was totally spaced out - this premie leaves this mortal coil and is on her/his way to hell (presumably cos she/he is a NPP - nice eh!)and then M turns up in his rolls/mercedes/ v posh and expensive set of wheels and says 'hop in' and drives said NPP to St Peter's gates.Obviously Rawat has forgotten he said that.
And that reminds me of an even wierder satsang about nuclear war... how M would take us somewhere under some kind of cosmic umbrella where we would all be miraculously saved from lethal effects of radioactive fallout!!
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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 17:39:05 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Moldy Warp
Subject: Cringe. Can't just blame him though.......
Message:
where the hell was I at to believe all that stuff? I did too. Every word that came out of his inarticulate mouth.

I never was let into the secret of the fifth technique ( tongue in cheek ) and it seems that many of us who took it all as gospel are the ones posting on the forum. All the premies I know well who are still entranced by him weren't in the ashram and carried on with worldly indulgences. Ah ! but I was special. I really understood the message of total surrender to him . I got in on those wonderful ashram meetings ( sado - masochistic abuse )where he really told us that we were the special ones, the ones most dear to him .

What a fucker he is .

Steve

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 22:06:58 (GMT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: Hal/Moldy...funny but true 'cringe' posts nt
Message:
zz
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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 17:45:30 (GMT)
From: moldy warp
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: Cringe. Know wot you mean Embarrassing confessions
Message:
I was special too - had obviously reincarnated on numerous occasions to be a devottee of the Lard, renouncing my enlightened bodiless state in favour of coming to earth to help the Lard to Save the World. And of course my kids were 'hand-picked' by the Lard (so it has been a bit confronting to find they all think Lard is a lump of meaningless blubber! or worse)
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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 17:59:35 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: planetqwerty@postmaster.co.uk
To: moldy warp
Subject: hey, moldy! have you got those satsangs in print?
Message:
- the one about St Peter and other about the nuclear umbrella?

If so, they need re-telling. Any chance of posting them verbatim?

PS - what's the 5th technique that Hal mentions? - the brown-nose special?

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 19:16:07 (GMT)
From: moldy warp
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: hey, moldy! have you got those satsangs in print?
Message:
Dunno If I haven't then me old mate just might as he keeps lots of old stuff.Can't remember if they were ever in print or just said at a 'festival' but will rack my brains. love Mold
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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 17:55:01 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: moldy warp
Subject: Cringe. Know wot you mean Embarrassing confessions
Message:
Hi Moll de Worpe,

yeah my kids were supposed to realise that my wife and I were special. They just thought we were weird and embarrasing.

My eldest used to rush through the room when there was a video on. He said one day that he had imagined maha saying ' You must kill the president. I will rule the world.. You must kill the government I am the KING ... '

Glad I got out before I wasted my whole life . I am ashamed to admit that I used to see my children as distractions and nuisances who prevented me from doing more dedication..meditation....Oh shit....

hal

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 19:31:30 (GMT)
From: moldy warp
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: To Hal Cringe. Good job our kids had some sense
Message:
Yep. one of mine used to rush through room when one of Lard's videos was on, muttering about how she couldn't stand his 'whiney voice'. I used to lament the fact that she would never be 'saved' due to her unfortunate taste in voice timbres.
And yep. I used to think I was in my mind when I preferred to cuddle my babies rather than sticking my fingers in various orifices and ironing altar clothes.
And (very embarrassingly) I even entertained the thought that my son might be THE NEXT LORD - when, at Holi somewhere,and too young to talk(or so I 'reasoned' at the time), he pointed to Lard (who was chucking blue water out of a bucket at us)and said 'Buck'.
love Moll de Worpe (Mother of Next Lord of the Universe)
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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 17:01:17 (GMT)
From: Ms. P.
Email: None
To: moldy warp
Subject: M's evil words from cq's link in thread below
Message:
Hi, I'm new. My first posting & getting the hang of this site. A little background: got 'knowledge' in the summer of '72, dropped out in the 80's; had done some time @ IHQ in Denver, Malibu, ashrams, etc. I'm familiar with most of the posters here.

Surprisingly, I'm still acquainted w/people who are into M and are planning to go to Australia in April. (Nice, intelligent people, who have chosen denial on some emotional level.) Part of me is relieved they are instructed to keep things to themselves (or whatever the new order du jour is)-- makes those social visits a little easier. M is amazingly full of crap -- and, as the old saying goes: just because someone dumps a load of garbage at your front door doesn't mean you have to bring it inside.

After reading M's little misguided and spurious speech, it struck me that he seemed to be 'talking to himself,' a little pep talk if you will, managing to 'transfer' his own fear and self-doubt onto whomever listens and buys into this crap. He's definitely cultivated more of an edge. And, phew! as a human being, he's pulled off some gawdawful shit. Karmic whiplash to follow.

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 19:23:08 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Ms. P.
Subject: Welcome Miss P, good to have you here NT
Message:
k
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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 18:18:37 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Ms. P.
Subject: welcome to Ms. P (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 18:54:44 (GMT)
From: Ms. P.
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: Hey Susan, how R ya?
Message:
xox
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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 18:14:31 (GMT)
From: Monmot
Email: None
To: Ms. P.
Subject: Yo yo yo, Ms. P.....
Message:
Welcome to the Star Wars Bar. Pull up a chair, pop a foamie (a nod to TED Farkel), and enjoy the show...
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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 18:20:17 (GMT)
From: Ms. P.
Email: None
To: Monmot
Subject: Mucho Gracias, Monmot
Message:
Quite the show, indeedy.
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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 18:04:45 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: delores@gofree.indigo.ie
To: Ms. P.
Subject: Karmic whiplash -- great phrase
Message:
Greetings Ms. P and welcome here. I love your phrase karmic whiplash! What a philosophic vision! Thanks for that. I think Captain Rawat is certainly in for that, as well as those around him who allow him to continue to perpetrate his fraud upon others. And kudos to those PAMS who are posting here and exposing the fraud for exactly what he is.

Where do you live these days, if you care to tell us? Email is posted above if you want to chat offline.

Marianne

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 17:45:47 (GMT)
From: Katie H.
Email: None
To: Ms. P.
Subject: Welcome, Ms. P
Message:
I agree with you about M's apparent transference of his own self-doubt and fear. I thought it was an awful speech - intended to inspire fear and eternal 'studenthood'. Right up there with some of his late-seventies stuff (although maybe that stuff worked, so now he's trying it again.)

Glad to see you posting here - it's hard to make the first post, I think. I want to echo Bab's suggestion about your journey - the journeys on this site are one of the things that help people who are finding the site (and as such are prominently featured on the home page), and, as Babs said, they are also helpful to the person writing them.

Take care,
Katie H.

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 17:36:58 (GMT)
From: Babs
Email: ralphie@ralphiescafe.com
To: Ms. P.
Subject: Welcome
Message:
We seem to have entered and exited the cult at about the same time so undoubtedly we had some similar experiences and knew a lot of the same people.

What is amazing to me is how much processing of information I am STILL doing, twenty years down the road. Those of us who made the break without any support are finally getting some!

Hope you are enjoying posting/reading here and continue to do so. Have you written a 'Journey' yet? It's a pretty valuable process to go through, IMHO.

Love,
Babs

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 17:21:59 (GMT)
From: Moldy Warp
Email: None
To: Ms. P.
Subject: Welcome Ms P nt
Message:
X
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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 17:10:51 (GMT)
From: Joy
Email: joy52@earthlink.net
To: Ms. P.
Subject: Welcome, Ms. P!
Message:
Glad to see you here! Do I know you? I was at IHQ from 1973-1979 (in the typesetting room). Feel free to e-mail if you wish.

Yes, it certainly is a load of old crap, isn't it? Interesting to see his 'message' hasn't changed much in 30 years -- intimidate the followers into thinking he has something they need.

I love the little quote from Bryn in cq's post below about being dragged out of to bondage to maya by the . . . well, people can read it themselves. Laughed and laughed. BUT. I take exception to the idea that he has indeed dragged anybody out of bondage to maya. All he's done is dragged them into a distracting cult, another, much more insidious form of maya (because it masquerades as being a release from maya).

Take care, Ms. P. and welcome here, it's nerve-wracking posting, isn't it?

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 17:47:45 (GMT)
From: Ms. P.
Email: None
To: Joy
Subject: Welcome, Ms. P!
Message:
Thanks for your welcome.
As far as being dragged out of Maya & into deeper Maya, it reminds me of when I was a hippie & dropped acid at Disneyland when I was 19 yrs old. After exiting 'Pirates of the Caribbean,' I exclaimed: ah, back in the real world... well... oops. Fun in the Maya Maze.

Yep, I was there @ IHQ in '73/'74. And, I'm sure a candidate for the Inner Sanctum Dysfunctional Asshole Award (& not alone in the award arena).

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 18:01:53 (GMT)
From: Richard
Email: post@rmi.net
To: Ms. P.
Subject: Welcome, Ms. P from another IHQ survivor
Message:
It's not suprising you know practicing premies. I know 2 who are happily going to Amaroo, one whom I'm very close with who finds value in meditation but hasn't questioned M's accountability, and several who are of the 'it's my special experience so don't hassle me about details' religion.

I was at IHQ 73-79 so we probably know each other. I did publication design. Email me with assurance of confidentiality if you wish. - Richard Rogers

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Date: Sun, Mar 25, 2001 at 02:52:54 (GMT)
From: Katie Darling
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Me too, an IHQ survivor...
Message:
but barely.

I have to say that my time at IHQ, about a year 1975-76 when we were laid off, was probably the worst time in my life, (except that I fell in love and was encouraged to leave the ashram). I was not a honcho, to put it mildly - just a translator in the word processing section of hell (name was Katie Jones back then). Being a non-honcho was quite a problem at IHQ. I have never been in a corporation, but I had enough of a taste of power politics and denigration of little people and jostling for position in one year to cure me (not that I ever had the urge!). MJ would come by, but as I think I posted before, he never once acknowledged me, after he had sent me to South America where I did a harrowing-but-fun tour of duty, and then had me brought back to IHQ to do translation. I had been devotedly singing his praises, talking about my personal relationship with my master, whipping all those sweet Latins into a hyperbolic froth (to use ScottC's phrase above). And when I came to IHQ after all that, he didn't even say hi. I went into a major depression, felt like a cog in a wheel, found the 6-day work-week exhausting and debilitating. Does anyone remember when MJ decided that we shouldn't have a full weekend like other people? This may not sound like a big deal in the workaholic times now, but back then a 6-day week was unheard-of. I used to live for weekends, to sneak off into the mountains and have some sort of relief from the unkindness of the situation I found myself in - an English gal, arriving in the big ole USA via Latin America. Very disorienting. And losing my Saturdays felt like the final straw. I felt like a slave. Pity I didn't leave then instead of 8 years or so later.

Shall we have a special in-group called the ex-IHQies?

love Katie Darling

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Date: Sun, Mar 25, 2001 at 03:58:45 (GMT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Katie Darling
Subject: Katie: ex-IHQies
Message:
Can you hear the number '401' without thinking of the dining room / satsang hall on the 4th floor of the Kittredge Building? I have a persistant vision of Jagdeo droning on about 'this and that / trips and traps' and my butt being sore from sitting on the hard floor. Ahhh then the crisp cool Rocky Mouintain air outside. We did the time and it was a crime. Bill Rowe's enchiladas were great though.
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Date: Sun, Mar 25, 2001 at 04:57:01 (GMT)
From: Babs
Email: ralphie@ralphiescafe.com
To: Richard and Katie
Subject: 401
Message:
My daughter danced in the Nutcracker ballet in the Paramount Theatre on the first floor of the Kittredge Building last December.
She's been in a lot of performances there.
She thinks it's a great theater and has no idea what memories I'm carrying around about that place.

I had lunch yesterday in a restaurant called 'The Kitchen,' corner of Race and Colfax. Ever been there?

Living in Denver, it's impossible to forget my past.

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Date: Sun, Mar 25, 2001 at 06:34:59 (GMT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Babs
Subject: How about a regressive therapy IHQ tour?
Message:
Somebody's ringing a bell to wake up. Arti English and Indian and meditation. Breakfast. Ride downtown on a big white school bus. Waiting for the elevator in the lobby of the Kittredge Building. Satsang in 401 with arti before service. Much busy comings and goings and always the eye out for the guru. Lunch in 401, get in line, outrageous veggie food. Meditate before eating. Work to 6pm. Walk home up Colfax, avoiding the Scientologist free personality screening. Walk through Cheesman Park. Ashram. Housemother. Meditate before dinner. Shuttle back downtown. Work til dawn. Magazine to the printer. Start the next issue.

Rainbow grocery. New Deli. That Mexican Restaurant on Colfax. Baskin and Robbins at Race and Colfax. The Mayan 50¢ movie theater. Rocky Mountain News to read Doonesbury. Candy bars at the pharmacy on 16th Street. Coffee at the Brown Palace in china cups. Larimer Square for art films. The first daffodils coming up through the snow. Weather coming over the mountains. The big 'P' 'A' of the Paramount Theater sign you'd see from the art room.

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Date: Sun, Mar 25, 2001 at 06:29:50 (GMT)
From: Katie Darling
Email: None
To: Babs
Subject: 401
Message:
Aaarrrgh! I remember WORKSHOPS in 401.

Food that made me fart.

Feeling tired and lonely.

Babs who? Are you anon? Did we know each other there? Do you have red hair?

Katie Darling

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 15:43:19 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: moldy warp
Subject: He's getting desperate
Message:
After thinking about this some more, I can see that Maharaji is definitely getting desperate in his attempts to stop his devotees from bleeding away from his influence. How to stem the flow of exiting devotees? Why, frighten them of course.

But this old horse-shit has less and less meaning these days. The old premies know that Maharaji doesn't offer any protection or salvation. They know it's just empty words.

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 15:37:15 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com
To: moldy warp
Subject: M's evil words from cq's link in thread below
Message:
Same old shit he was saying in the seventies. What about all those ashram premies who followed him for years - he led them right into the abyss. Some of them never recovered when they were thrown out of Maharaji's 'protection'.

All the big mistakes I made in my life in the seventies and early eighties were caused by following Maharaji.

Now, a successful teacher will teach independence. That is the hallmark of a good teacher. They will want to see you become independent of them and able to utilise what they have taught you on your own.

I had a good English teacher. He wouldn't expect me to be seeking his guidance now. He would think he had failed me if I still needed his direction today.

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 19:47:54 (GMT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Sir D: I like what you say about teachers...
Message:
I heard a speaker recently say that he was extremely wary of those 'teachers' who never have students who graduate, and then become teachers themselves...

If the teachers message is to spread, how do they do if they cannot train their students to eventually teach it as well?

He said that one criteria he used to judge a teacher was how well they trained their students to become teachers as well. If they didn't, he didn't think they were a real teacher.

The other thing he looked at closely, was 'what was the code of ethics that the teacher espoused, and did they live by them, as well as by their own practices or teachings.'

(I think we know where M stand on both counts...)

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 15:13:27 (GMT)
From: bill---This is classic
Email: None
To: moldy warp
Subject: buddha style bullshit.
Message:
There is no god, there is an unconcious oneness, but, SOMEHOW,
the unconcious oneness, that doesnt know you exist, cares about your behaviour. And you have to walk a tightrope of detachment
and focus in such a way as to somehow merge back in with something that does not know that you NEED mergeing, and wont notice when you do.

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 15:05:11 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: moldy warp
Subject: evil? or just misguided?
Message:
As far as guides go, he's actually worse than useless.

What's he trying to sell himself as? - some kind of good-luck charm that no traveller should be without?

All he does for the would-be seeker is to engender a dependence on himself, instilling a sense of unspoken fear of leaving his supposed protection. Yet when a guide WOULD be most useful - like counselling people though the very real problems that can arise from being in a premie - master relationship, where is he then?

One thing I learnt the hard way is this - when you're a premie, it doesn't pay to examine your life too closely. Just shut your eyes, relax into the warm and fuzzy 'protection' that you think the guru gives, and say goodbye the real world. Sharing your troubles with other premies? You're just in your mind, premie-ji, we don't deal with that stuff here.

Some guidance, hah!

For instance, when you follow the Maha's instructions for any length of time, and consequently find your own sense of autonomy becoming more and more subservient to him and his 'teachings' - what use is a guide like that?

Worse than useless.

.
.
.

As Bryn put it so beautifully the other day when he said:

'... didn't mind getting dragged out of the river of bondage to maya by the balls, but I expected my rescuer to have the decency to let go once we were on the bank.'

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 03:48:45 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: A few questions for CD
Message:
In a thread below, you posted the following:

>It is better to judge and expect to be judged ourselves.

Yes why of course.
Now, what is the basis of the judgement?
Oh, I see. There has been a debate on the foundation for a few thousand or more years.
Very well.
While you judge, keep the perspective of what can really be judged.
Now, to judge or enjoy, that is the question ...

I don't know if there's a man, woman or child alive who could understand that, Chris. Perhaps you'd like to explain yourself a little better. Then again, maybe you wouldn't. Maybe your thoughts don't do to well out in the open. Who would know, huh?

But those aren't my question. No, no, these are the one you should avoid (joke!):

1)Has your opinion of Maharaji changed in the past three or four years that you've been posting here? If so, how?

2)If not, have you made a conscious decision that nothing you ever learn about Maharaji will ever affect your opinion of him? When? When did you deicde that?

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 21:14:39 (GMT)
From: CD
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: A few
Message:
Here is another possibility that I ran across today:

explains Professor Wylde. 'When you are in search of an answer, just drink beer and, if you still don't know what the fuck you're thinking about, just drink another one.'

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Date: Sun, Mar 25, 2001 at 00:31:28 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: CD
Subject: Hey, Jim!
Message:
Why bother? Like CD says, have another beer, whatever that's supposed to mean.
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Date: Sun, Mar 25, 2001 at 01:03:20 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: He is to this forum like a piece of toilet paper
Message:
stuck to one's shoe.

Pretty pathetic, isn't it?

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Date: Sun, Mar 25, 2001 at 05:22:28 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: The old boy is an ex. A disappointed one.....nt
Message:
dfhgd
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Date: Sun, Mar 25, 2001 at 05:24:02 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: CD what do you think of .net.....?.....nt
Message:
fsdgs
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Date: Sun, Mar 25, 2001 at 20:13:32 (GMT)
From: CD
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: CD what do you think of .net.....?.....nt
Message:
Send me an email
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Date: Sun, Mar 25, 2001 at 02:05:50 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Are all premies alcoholics like their Master? NT
Message:
k
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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 02:49:41 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Tribute To William Hanna (ot)
Message:
This guy brought me more real joy in five minutes than the miser of the universe did in 28 years.

He died yesterday at the age of 90. Joseph Barbera is still alive at the same age.

I find going back to the real heroes of my youth to be healing. There are many sites with sound and video clips of their cartoons, and I believe some of them are still broadcast today.

In my opinion, William Hanna is one of the great men of the twentieth century. As I told my fellow Yogi Bear fan Bill today, remember where you were when you heard the news. This guy was bigger than JFK.

Steve

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 16:15:17 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Steve Quint
Subject: you're right about that, Steve
Message:
'I find going back to the real heroes of my youth to be healing'

- too true.

I just happened to come across a CD in a library sale. On it were all the old 'Sparky's Magic Piano' stories. Took me right back to when I was a nipper to hear those opening words:

'Sparky was a little boy just about your age. Well, maybe a little older by now ...'

Brought tears to me eyes, it did.

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 07:38:25 (GMT)
From: suchaHannaBarbanana
Email: None
To: Steve Quint
Subject: Yogi's cave is great for meditating!picnics,too(nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Mar 23, 2001 at 23:45:24 (GMT)
From: Lester
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: And it feels good
Message:
Hi - I've been a regular visitor to the Forum for a few weeks and now feels the right time to make a contribution. After 29 years of more or less consistent association with Maharaji, knowledge and premie life, I started to back away last year, resigning my (fairly high profile) service. I guess I just got bored - bored with the sterility of it all. Bored with videos, bored with Maharaji's same hackneyed talks, bored with the predictability of premie contact and conversation, bored with the so pathetic attempt by EV members to become 'professional'. I already had an intense day job, and didn't need another one in the evenings and weekends. Then in the subsequent weeks and months I stopped meditating and going to videos, and really didn't miss them at all.

But if only it were so simple. 29 years of indoctrination is a long time and the sense of fear and guilt is not easy to ignore or dispel. Deep down, I know that I expected to go back to it all a few months later. When I received knowledge, guru was godlike, to be worshipped and adored as the perfect being. I prayed to him, devoted my time and life to him, bowed before him, kissed his feet, gave him money, apologised to him for my imperfection, did all I could to hand over the reins of my life to him. And of course I was seen as the 'good premie' - all this behaviour was reinforced by so-called high level service opportunities, lots of attention from instructors, initiators, mahatmas etc., who taught me and encouraged me. And I have never accepted it when Maharaji has blamed others for spreading a false picture of him to the world. Perfect Master, Satguru, Krishna costumes, arti, altars, darshan, Grace etc. etc. were clearly ways of portraying a certain image to the premies, and let's be clear, that was not one of friendly and accessible teacher, who you could take or leave.

I first came across the ex-premie site about 2 years ago and read the Mishler interview. It left me feeling uncomfortable but I couldn't somehow take it at face value - surely the man was bitter at having lost his powerful position and was just trying to cause trouble. But I remember Maharaji trying to ridicule the Internet during his speeches and wondering why, when he normally so claims to embrace technology. Glen Whittaker (whose service it is to monitor the site) deterred everyone from looking at the site - 'the more hits they get, the more it encourages them'. I was still committed and fully involved then and just managed to forget or dismiss what I had read (as I always manged to ignore press reports about M's infidelity, the smuggling incidents, the high lifestyle, Raja Ji's behaviour etc. etc.).

I came back to the site about 2 months ago, still filled with so many ambivalent feelings, but more than anything guilt - you don't leave the Perfect Master. The contributions to the Forum have been so important and helpful. Reading sober accounts of how Maharaji really behaves is so, so liberating. In all the years, I never spoke to him, but just believed in the myth of the perfect teacher doing everything for his devotees (although I have to admit that I never really bought it, when people said how hard he worked for us - from my perspective, he never seemed to do too much and had a pretty enviable lifestyle, but as Perfect Master was entitled to it).

As I started to read the various contributions in the Forum the range of emotions started to flow: anger with myself for being so naïve and gullible for such a big proportion of my life; anger with those premies and instructors who knew what was going on but painted (and still paint) such a false picture - I include instructors whom I've spent time with in recent years like Peter Lee and Sandy, who at times still live around Maharaji but don't tell it like it is. No doubt afraid of losing their positions of influence and only viable means of support. (Incidentally, I would love to hear a bit more from Mike Finch - it was a very important moment for me when he posted). I even felt angry with the 2 Michaels (whose contributions on the Forum were so valuable to me) for having concealed the truth in previous years. I was embarrassed that I promoted and defended Maharaji to those I knew and to many more that I didn't, despite the overwhelming evidence that he was a fraud (even though I truly believe he started off really thinking he was the chosen one and that his 'mission' was then sincere). And then there was the over-riding fear that what I was going through would lead to me cutting the ties for good - and it is a frightening thing to contemplate after being both the recipient and deliverer of so much conditioning over the years.

As I read the Forum, I have to say that where I want to be is in that state where I can say about Maharaji and my involvement with him: 'Oh that was then, I don't think about it these days, it's just history'. As it is, I think about it all too much still. But that's normal, because of the overwhelming proportion of my life tied up in the whole trip. It's good to simply express all this - therapeutic, even though I have probably only skimmed the surface of how I really feel, but it's an important stage for me. I always knew, since I first started to read the Forum a little bit regularly, that the day I posted would mark a real milestone in my breaking free. That's how it feels. And it feels good.

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Date: Sun, Mar 25, 2001 at 00:46:29 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Lester
Subject: Welcome aboard, Lester
Message:
Hi Lester,

Great post! Thanks for posting it. It says a lot. And don't fret none about leaving the guru. You're only going to feel better and better about that as time passes. Freedom works that way :)

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 18:21:11 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Lester
Subject: Many Thanks, Lester
Message:
Welcome Lester,

Everything you said rings clear for me too. As Jim said below, it's a bit difficult to put it all behind you. This is the beginning of the end of involvement with a cult. There are ups and downs. Good days, tremendous days, and hard ones, too. Just remember to be good to yourself, you deserve it.

The hardest things for me have been to forgive myself for getting involved with m, and the pain of his betrayal, I treasured m above all else, it's difficult. It's a grieving process, and who wants that?!!?

This place provides a safe harbor, even though it gets intense, it also can get quite hilarious, too. Same as the journey out.

Thank you for your honesty,
Best,
Cynthia

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 18:36:04 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: delores@gofree.indigo.ie
To: Lester
Subject: Welcome to your life, Lester
Message:
Congratulations on leaving the cult behind. You'll find lots more freedom to think and speak here. Hope you'll find the time to continue to post, as the revelations and insights of the new exes inevitably educate and sensitize those of us who exited long ago.

Thanks also for confirming Glen's status as an EV monitor.
That's a fact to file away for future legal reference.

Marianne

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 16:13:33 (GMT)
From: Katie H.
Email: None
To: Lester
Subject: Lester, thanks!
Message:
A very eloquent and moving post. Guilt plus fear were a big part of what kept me following M, so I relate to that.

Also, thanks for your comments on this forum and site - that's always MUCH appreciated. I was interested to hear what you said about the Mishler interview - I think it's one of the most powerful things on this site, and Bob Mishler was a very good person - and about Glen Whittaker and the 'encouraging' (had to laugh at that one.)

Take care of yourself, and hope to hear more from you.
Katie H.

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 14:40:35 (GMT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Lester
Subject: Hey Lester, welcome aboard the freedom train nt
Message:
zz
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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 14:18:44 (GMT)
From: wolfie
Email: None
To: Lester
Subject: And it feels good
Message:
Thanks very much. We share the same 'karma'.

wolfie

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 14:15:57 (GMT)
From: Sandy
Email: None
To: Lester
Subject: Clarification
Message:
'...anger with those premies and instructors who knew what was going on but painted (and still paint) such a false picture - I include instructors whom I've spent time with in recent years like Peter Lee and Sandy, who at times still live around Maharaji but don't tell it like it is.' -Lester

Hey Lester,

I read your post and always appreciate reading an account of how somebody really feels. I just wanted to clarify here that the 'Sandy' you refer to above is not the same Sandy who has been posting here. I hope you are happier now.

Sandy

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 12:47:53 (GMT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: Lester
Subject: And it feels good
Message:
Lester,
thanks for posting. I think you're very brave.

Best wishes

Abi

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 09:11:00 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Lester
Subject: Happy posting
Message:
Take it easy, it will take time.
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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 08:36:55 (GMT)
From: Loaf
Email: loafji@yahoo.com
To: Lester
Subject: Hi Lester (and Glen !)
Message:
It is a difficult and deep rooted transition Lester - and for me I have not wanted to add to the baby throwing festival which used to take place here annually every Spring.

The important thing for me has been to realise that its not my fault - but that a loophole in my personal psychology (and a very common human one !) was available for manipulation.

It is good that M's 'mission' has all but lost its charm - it is natural and right. He is no longer the right man in the right place. Natural. Moving on (for me) has been about owning my experiences and rejecting the crap. I too hide from rampant anger/blame - my feeling of devotion were sweet. But 'jesus wept' - I need to out grow them now !!!

Drop me a line - hows Desi and Hills and Peggy Woods ??? I hope she is OK.

love

Loaf

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 16:15:59 (GMT)
From: Katie H.
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: 'Baby throwing festival' - good one, Loaf :)! nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 05:48:05 (GMT)
From: Brian Smith
Email: bgsmith@teleport.com
To: Lester
Subject: We are on the same page brother, keep on reading
Message:
Lester, thank you for posting, I recently exited here with 29 years of attachment to the cult and M. all of the concerns, experiences and feelings you so aptly described in you post fit what I just went through and am currently dealing with to a tee.

Of particular interest was the issue of guilt over leaving the perfect master, I struggled with that one the most as well. I think fear also enters into the picture as well over this, what if I am wrong will I be be damned for all of eternity etc. Just mind trips instilled by years of indoctrination by the cult, total head games that lay like snakes in the grass to rear up when you try to break free, very clever little traps.

However the truth, the real truth and nothing but the truth is 'HE IS NOT THE PERFECT MASTER', he is not the Lord incarnate, he is not God. At best he is just one lucky son of a bitch who was at the right place at the right time with the right training and background to pull the act off. At the minimual worst he is a corrupt and irresponsible greedy con man who by now knows full well what he is up to and is too dishonest to account for his actions.
He is a spiritual grifter who roams the world fleecing peoples spiritual desires and needs. This is no great and gifted manifestation of holiness.

Given this and realizing the truth about him takes all bets off of him as any sort of spiritual guide, teacher, motivator or even as a decent person. I feel no guit or remorse over my decision to give him the boot in my life and I fear no retribution for having done so. In fact like you it feels good to break free from the emotional attachment and to reclaim my free will and ability to see things for what they really are.

More than anything, I feel disapointed, I feel betrayed by M for shredding my most sacred of aspirations, and the huge letdown of having put so much stock and time into just another illusion. This is particularly demeaning when I came into this thing to dispell all illusions, maybe that is what I am doing right now.

I think that I am finding out that the biggest illusion of all is in this whole business of finding some one or something that will carry me across the troubled waters, enlighten me, show me the way me to Nirvana, whatever. So I can report that some progress is being made and the big Guru illusion has fallen.

What is taking its place as the dust settles is a new found understanding that I have a clean slate, and I can write whatever I want on it for the first time in years. There is a here and now and an everpresent peace that M never ever ocuppied either then or now. In fact he gets in the way of my own special experience, it is my own personal and sacred place and it is not big enough for the both of us.

It belongs only to me, and I can write my own story and account for my own soul and journey from here on out. I am master of my own destiny, captain of my own ship and I trust my very own instincts to guide me. Self trust was something that I had denied myself for years being enslaved to this pathetic person. There is a lot more to be discovered and I am free to take it or leave it as I wish, no guilt, no fear just a fresh and relaxed approach to this journey called life, to my own understanding finding my own solutions and creating my own development as a person and a soul.

Just so you will know Lester, there is life after M, a very full and rich one at that. And you will have the freedom to explore whatever avenue of inquiry or discovery that you choose. You can retain the good things that you gained from all of this and you can open yourself up to gaining much more than you ever dreamed possible by reclaiming your free will do to so.

Life doesn't stop after Maharaji, and it doesn't stop here, this is a good place to start putting together the picture and putting the total reality of the last 29 years in honest perspective and moving forward.

Anyway thank you for you intelligent post Lester, you sound as if you are really seeking honest answers and are open to thoughful inquiry. I wish you well and I want you to know that there are many of us here who have and are going through the same things, over the same time frame and need to share the similar experiences and strengths in this process of breaking free.

You can email me if you feel so inclined, Thanks
Brian Smith

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 13:43:05 (GMT)
From: Moldy Warp
Email: None
To: Brian Smith
Subject: Wonderful post about own experience Brian nt
Message:
X
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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 07:29:30 (GMT)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: Brian Smith @satsang.epo
Subject: Lester, lotsa Peace and lentils to ya,brother! (nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 06:16:12 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Brian Smith
Subject: Brian thanks for that beautiful post
Message:
The best satsang I have heard in ages. You just sound so strong and positive and clear. Thanks.
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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 09:34:31 (GMT)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: Now it is just truth of a different experience nt
Message:
g
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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 10:12:11 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Brian Smith
Subject: Now it is just truth, nothing but the truth
Message:
Just plain old truth. Just being honest and straightforward. Not some sort of tongue in cheek truth.
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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 20:39:45 (GMT)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: Thank you Pat
Message:
For all of the valuable contributions and insights you bring to this site. You are everywhere on the boards these days, talk about selfless service, I know how much time you must dedicate to this purpose and I appreciate every minute and post that you put up.

Much of your work and effort here on the forum has made it possible for me to quickly and easily slip out of the grasp of the cult. You have really helped me move forward in my process of breaking free, I want you to know how grateful I am that you are here and so knowledgeable, open minded, free and funny at times as well.

You are just too good to be wasted on the lard's monkey business, thank you for all that you are doing Pat, I look forward to reading you each day.

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 21:17:41 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: pdconlon@yahoo.com
To: Brian Smith
Subject: Thank you Brian for speaking the truth
Message:
Cerise said to me that I ''spoke from my heart.'' I should have told her that my blood pumping organ does not have lips. What she really meant is that I speak the truth. She likes to tell fibs just like her premie parents and their lying urug.

To me there is only one definition of the truth. It means NOT TELLING LIES.

I am very glad for your presence Brian and hope one day to meet you. Perhaps you will think about coming to San Francisco Latvian Night on June 2nd. We are arranging it by email.

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 03:10:32 (GMT)
From: Brian
Email: brian@ex-premie.org
To: Lester
Subject: And it feels good
Message:
Hi Lester. You wrote:
As I read the Forum, I have to say that where I want to be is in that state where I can say about Maharaji and my involvement with him: 'Oh that was then, I don't think about it these days, it's just history'.

That will happen in time. Not because of reading or posting on the forum, or reading things on the site, or even from talking to others who have gone through what you are going through. Those are things that will happen to varying amounts between now and then, but they won't be the deciding factor.

Mainly it will happen as a natural result of putting more of your life's time into the things that actually have worked for you in the past, and less into the things that have drained you.

Service to Rawat benefits Rawat. The more he 'allows' and encourages it, the better off he is. It's gotten him everything that he has because it's what has worked for him, and he isn't interested in fixing what ain't 'broke'.

If you live indoors, own a computer and can pay for a phoneline and ISP to even post here, then you must being doing something in your life that works for you too. You'll have more time to put into those things, and to discover others, when you are no longer pouring your efforts into his well-being. He'll fade like hunger after a full meal.

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 01:23:13 (GMT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Lester
Subject: Great post,Lester.Your sentimenats are mine....
Message:
I felt like I was reading a post that I would have written...29 years, the boring religion, the things that don't add up, plus the many posts here, and in particular, some of the stuff from the PAMS...

I think there are many people out there like us...thanks for posting, and good luck!

La-ex

PS:When I read posts like this, I realize how valuable this site is, and especially those posts from the people who actually experienced first hand stuff with M that shows the sleazy side of the PM....
Also, it reinforces my belief that we should post some simple solutions for recent exes, such as therapists who work with former cult members, groups, books, particular posts and journeys that might be helpful etc...

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 02:06:35 (GMT)
From: Joy
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: That's A Great Idea, La-ex
Message:
To have a sort of newcomers' corner where newly exited or about-to-exit premies can find stuff in a nutshell, so they're not overwhelmed by this site, which, I am informed, has over 500 web pages to it. Perhaps some of the more pertinent posts from Dettmers, Donner, and Mishler all in their own little sections, a few particularly good journey entries, plus the resources you mentioned.

Somebody could have the blissful service of organizing it (uh oh, I'm not exactly volunteering at this moment in time) . . .

Oh and Lester, WELCOME, and what a wonderful post. I guess in the jargon of the 12-step programs: Keep Coming Back!

--Joy

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 01:15:07 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Lester
Subject: Great post, Lester
Message:
Hi, Lester. That was really well said. Thanks very much.

One thing, though, this question of hoping to be able to one day put it all behind you. I was 'only' in the cult for eight, maybe nine years, with about six or so in the ashram. I got branded on April 24, 1973 and fizzled out in the early eighties. Until this net thing arose around four years ago I'd only talk about the cult if I encountered some old premie friend (before there were 'exes' as such)or some new friend asked me to describe and explain it all. It was a common enough topic for me but surely not a daily one.

Even then, though, I always knew that this particular tour was with me for a lifetime. I mean, we only live once and this bizarre epoch, like it or not, is part of my life. It's a chapter in a book. Not just that, it's one of the weirder chapters in pretty well any book I come across. Better still, it keeps getting richer as I learn more about it all.

Having said that, it does occur to me that there will come a time of diminishing returns. Once the bullshit front Maharaji hid behind is fully deconstructed for us, once he's fully exposed, well, that will be that, won't it? Once the thrill of dissing him wears thin, that will be that too, I guess. It's yet to be seen how much we'll all want to congregate here or elsewhere once the destruction of the cult, to the extent we'll ever see it, is done. Yet I know that people are making lifelong friends here and talking about all sorts of stuff only tangentially related to our having been had. It's a mystery how much we'll any of us be involved as time goes by. My only point, though, is that, one way or another, this colorful, bizarre episode will always be with us. It's part of the colour of who we are. I'm not suggesting for a moment you were suggesting it be whitewashed but I am saying that it might be a bit unnatural and unncessary to try to put it all behind you.

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 04:46:47 (GMT)
From: Roy
Email: z
To: Lester
Subject: Great post, Lester
Message:
Lester, I appreciate hearing such a well spoken account of whats been going on for you. welcome. your story resonates.
I also like your take on this Jim -
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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 01:05:57 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Lester
Subject: thanks for posting
Message:
I was very touched by what you have to say. Your honesty and frankness are wonderful. I hope you keep posting.

Susan

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 00:54:42 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Lester
Subject: And it feels good
Message:
Welcome.

I also left last year after many years of involvement on and off since 1972. In the mid 90's video events were held every night for about two years in Vancouver and I was at all of them. I've watched a few videos since I left last summer and I only wonder how I stuck with it for so long - the speeches consist solely of fluff, filler and negative statements. The people I see at the events seem dazed and confused.

You're the first person I've come across whose post mentions knowing EV monitors. In my opinion, they should be extremely ashamed of what they're doing. On the other hand, I expect that people close to m will be influenced by what they read here.

Hope to see you coming back.

Steve

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 00:49:52 (GMT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: Lester
Subject: Welcome Lester Fuck the Pied Piper (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 00:49:14 (GMT)
From: Tony Walker (Aussi Ji)
Email: None
To: Lester
Subject: Welcome to the beginning of freedom.
Message:
G'day Lester,
It only gets better from now on.Yes,there is a lot of crap to discard,but it will all feel good once it has gone.Congratulations on posting for the first time.Look forward to hearing from you and your valued imput.

Cheers Tony.

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 00:40:12 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Lester
Subject: Terrific
Message:
Actually, reading your sincere post kind of brought tears to my eyes, because I can remember feeling the way you do now, kind of excited about freedom and honesty, but then also feeling stupid and resentful, all at the same time. You'll get a lot of support here, because so many of us have been through similar things.

I'm not surprised Glen Whittaker is monitoring this site. (Hi Glen!) Did Glen ever say anything to you about how deceitful his 'perspective' on the Elan Vital website is? Anything about how outrageously misrepresentative of what Maharaji actually did and said?

That's the one in which he describes Maharaji's Hindu wobble dance, and the dark, devotional period of 1977-1980 when M said hardly anything besides 'devote and surrender' as just Maharaji just spending time with his 'students' without any of the messy details. It's extremely misleading.

Also, have you read the Elan Vital answers to FAQs (American Elan Vital)? Do you know who wrote those things, and do they have any qualms about all the lies? Did Glenn write those?

Anyhow, all the best to you. One thing I can tell you, it will get better.

Joe

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 00:32:02 (GMT)
From: Gregg
Email: binduesque@yahoo.com
To: Lester
Subject: And it feels good
Message:
Hello Lester. Thank you for posting here. Although I was not involved for as long as you were, the feelings you express are quite relevant to me.

In fact, I'm thinking that cult involvement is not that different than the lives of most people...we all hold strong beliefs contrary to the evidence at hand.

Some of us on this site don't like 'spirituality' anymore. You may become one of them. If you are not, however, I would hope that you entertain the possibility that your consciousness might very well expand manyfold with the jettisoning of a sadly fraudulent 'master.'

Good luck to you, Lester.

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 00:26:06 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Lester
Subject: Lester, welcome and it is good to have you here
Message:
I left less than 3 months ago and posting and responding here has been a roller-coaster ride but one that has really rid me of a lot of garbage. It sure does feel good to be free of a weird cult and a silly little ''businessman'' who calls himself a ''Master.''

Welcome to the free world of civilized values, open discussion, common decency, democracy and appreciation of intelligence. No more lies, secrets or being embarassed and ashamed of the Hindu from Hardwar.

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 00:30:25 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: pdconlon@yahoo.com
To: Glen Whittaker
Subject: Hi, Mahatma Monitor Glen Whittaker Ji,
Message:
Hi Glen, I know you don't remember me as I was just another peon but you were once very kind to me in 73 and I will never forget that. I know you enjoy knowledge as I have done for 28 years.

I just wish you would cut loose and teach it on your own. You would be a much better teacher than the Hindu from Hardwar. Please fell free to email me if you want to chat. I'd love to thank you for your past kindness.

I wish you clarity, consciousness and contentment.

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 04:56:23 (GMT)
From: cerise
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: dad knows Glen!
Message:
Pat, that is so fantastic, I read your post and thought, I know a Glen that dad talks about sometimes as being one of the 'real' premies in England when he was there. i showed dad your post to see if it was the same guy. Sure is!

hey, this is like a big family! I'm really pleased that it was you who mentioned Glen - it makes sense to me that you would like him and respect him without making rude remarks because he's still with M. dad can't wait to see G at amaroo. he said glen gave the funniest sotsang at a time when so many people sounded like Christian zombies preaching shit!
I'm rapt cos dad feels better about me being here 'if there's people like Pat posting there'
don't you get a big head now!
lol
C

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 05:26:14 (GMT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: cerise
Subject: So now you can rub shoulders
Message:
with the big boys, ha?
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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 05:04:06 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: cerise
Subject: dad knows Glen!
Message:
cerise,

I don't know Glen, and I'm sure he is a real nice guy. Unfortunately, he has a habit of writing things on the Elan Vital website that are extremely deceitful and misleading about what Maharaji has actually done. Glen has most likely done this because he thinks it is a good thing and helpful to his 'master,' because, obviously, both Glen and Maharaji are embarrassed to let the world know what how Maharaji played the part of the incarnation of God for many years. Glen has chosen to cover that over to such an extreme, that his writing consitutes lies, which is not a good sign.

He also appears to have written letters to Anth trying to cover over and obfiscate the fact that a pedophile has been harbored in Elan Vital for years. That isn't a good sign either.

Based on those two things, Glen does not seem like the kind of person you would want to hold up to your kids as a role model.

Joe

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 05:45:37 (GMT)
From: cerise
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: dad knows Glen!
Message:
yea, i've seen refernces here about what Glen said in the EV site but have never seen it. How do I get to see these posts he made to their site?
thanks for the info Joe
C
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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 08:23:00 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: cerise
Subject: Glen also lied to the Guardian newspaper
Message:
Over a year ago, the Guardian newspaper in the UK published an article about Jonathan Cainer (a premie astrologer) and Maharaji. Glen Whitaker, being the head of EV (UK) threatened legal action against the Guardian claiming that EV was not a successor organisation to EV. The Guardian, with the help of posters here, was able to prove that EV was DLM reborn, and Glen was forced to withdraw the threat of legal action, and apologise. As the Guardian reporter said 'a small but satisfying victory'.

John.

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 13:29:28 (GMT)
From: cerise
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Glen also lied to the Guardian newspaper
Message:
mmm, interesting. I don't know anything about the organisations. it used to be called Divine Light Mission I know that.
suing a newspaper is a big step I imagine.
thanks J
c
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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 16:09:55 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: cerise
Subject: judge for yourself, cerise
Message:
You can find the FAQ page at EV by clicking here


Examples:

Did Maharaji ever say he was God?

No, Maharaji never at any time claimed to be God.
(which leads to the inevitable question - why will so many old-time premies and exes confess to thinking he was God incarnate? I guess he just had a very funny way of not claiming to be God.)

'Independent thinking is strongly encouraged by Maharaji'
(oh yeah? I've yet to see any evidence of him encouraging people to think for themselves. It's always been 'doubts are bad' and 'don't trust your mind'.)

'Maharaji is neither a spiritual nor a religious leader. He is a master who teaches about life and is adamant that any person’s lifestyle has no
relevance to her or his ability to be fulfilled. He has often stated that
whether you are the richest person or the poorest person, the possibility to
be at peace within yourself and to be fulfilled is available'

(-as if he knows anything about real poverty!)
.
.
.
PS. I like your new word for satsang: 'sotsang' ! (well I know the Maha certainly likes his cognac)

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 16:31:42 (GMT)
From: cerise
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: judge for yourself, cerise
Message:
Thanks cq, boy links are amazing things, we can just jump all over the net anytime we want! I was just tripping out on icq but Dad wanted me to prin tout my post to sherlock Holmes so back here I am.

yea, I'll check out the Ev stuff. keep hearing about it, might as well see. Actually i agree with Sherlock...I bet we all say to ourselves what the f am i doing here? thing is It's really hard not to enjoy it and when it gets boring we piss off somewhere else.

Ok, I have to print now then jump back on to our 'Royal Chatroom' on icq, we all feel very grand there!
thanks again for the link...

C
:) %% %

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 16:31:20 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: cq
Subject: Methinks They Doth Protest Too Much
Message:
Encarta:

fudge [fuj ] noun

1. confection: a type of soft candy made by boiling milk and sugar and then beating the liquid until it crystallizes and becomes slightly grainy in texture. Many flavorings and other ingredients can be added.

2. nonsense: nonsensical talk (informal)

vti (past fudged, past participle fudged, present participle fudg·ing, 3rd person present singular fudg·es)
alter to deceive: to fiddle with or otherwise alter something in order to deceive or remain noncommittal (informal)
fudged the figures to make the bottom line look better

quack 1 [kwak ] noun (plural quacks)
sound made by a duck: the harsh sound typically made by a duck

intransitive verb (past quacked, past participle quacked, present participle quack·ing, 3rd person present singular quacks)

1. make the sound of a duck: to make the harsh sound that is characteristic of a duck

2. speak irritatingly: to speak loudly and endlessly in an irritating manner (slang)

FAQ - Fudge and Quack

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 18:32:08 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Steve Quint
Subject: Hi Steve, How are Ya!
Message:
Steve,

It's good to see you here. How you doing? Me? I'm frustrated as hell because my computer is asking for a ditch out the window! And it probably would survive the fall because there is so much snow up here it'd make a soft landing.

I know it's impossible to keep up with the posts here, but even when I try to post, some evil lila seems to be preventing me from getting it on the board! Grrrrrrrrr.

Anyway, just wanted to say hi!

Love,
Cynthia

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 09:03:20 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Glen, is this true? I always was bit leery of you
Message:
There was an grim side to you that I never trusted. Even cold evil people have been kind to me in the past because that is what I try give out and receive.

I was upset to hear that you were the author of the lying drivel on EV website. But I was surprised that I was NOT surprised. Why? Are you a lifer? One of those who wpould do anything for the Master? You know what I mean.

Now to hear from John Brauns about your little escapade with the Guardian leaves me feeling very annoyed with you. What will you stoop to next? Have you no shame or social conscience?

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 05:02:25 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: pdconlon@yahoo.com
To: cerise
Subject: cerise, I probably kow your dad too
Message:
If ever he wants to email me to make sure his daughter is hanging with nice people, I'd chat with him.
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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 05:53:40 (GMT)
From: cerise
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: Now he knows I'm hangin with nice people!
Message:
he doesn't remember you Pat but says he has a lot of respect anyway.
he left UK in 1974 and headed for NZ (I think cos he wanted to get away) and says he'd rather remain out of this forum for the time being. I'm just so pleased he doesn't mind me being here! whoohoo!! (I was beginning to feel guilty about it because some pwks say 'Oh don't go there to those horrible evil people!!')

PS I think I'm beginning to fancy Salem, it must be his passion that attracts me. Though I guess we'd have a pretty abusive relationship!!
he he :)

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 06:49:28 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: cerise
Subject: cerise, - does your dad know Julie Collett?
Message:
She was an Aussie instructor who spent some time in South Africa and I just loved her. I have recently heard that she is not an instructor anymore because of something bad that Rev Rawat did to her. But I sure would love to contact her.
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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 21:58:05 (GMT)
From: Lesley
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: Julie Collett?
Message:
I don't know the details, but I believe she lives in sydney. She left quite a number of years ago, I have never forgotten her, I loved her too, I always used to wonder what had happened to her, the only thing I heard in my enquiries was that she had said she still loved Maharaji but didn't want to be involved, that was some time ago. Please let me know if you or anyone knows how to contact her. Best regards, Lesley.
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Date: Sun, Mar 25, 2001 at 02:02:48 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Lesley
Subject: Julie Collett? Lesley, Rawat freaked her out
Message:
In an instructors meeting he told her that she had ''emotional problems'' relating to him. This was said in an insulting and cruel way in front of everybody. For god sake she loved him. She freaked and left.
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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 07:18:08 (GMT)
From: cerise
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: yes Pat he does,
Message:
she was in Sydney a lot. He says she was a really nice premie until she became all sanctamonius (s?) holy and preachy. it was hard to be in a room with her unless she GAVE satsang to all present...boring...!

he hasn't a clue where she is now...probably started her own cult? he he
c

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 23:30:07 (GMT)
From: Lesley
Email: None
To: cerise
Subject: to 'cerise'
Message:
Julie was a lovely young woman who got taken on a mind bending ride by her trusted guru. Why not poke fun at her guru instead?
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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 09:31:06 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: cerise
Subject: Cerise, tell your dad that I recently heard
Message:
that Julie was treated very coldly and cruelly by Rev Rawat. Yes, Julie was a bit of a nun (nun of this, nun of that and definitely nun of any fun) but she blossomed out in South Africa where the Indian premies treated her like a saint and touched her feet and put flowers around her neck.

She became all shy and giggly and sweet and I almost gave up being queer for her. I'll post a pic of her and me dressed up in Indian clothes doing Hindu mumbo-jumbo (arti.)

I guess your dad doesn't like sanctimonious people. Sounds like a nice dad to have.

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 13:37:50 (GMT)
From: cerise
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: photo of a modern nun?
Message:
ok Pat, let us know when you post it, he he.
I was disappointed you were angry at Glen Whiteacre after saying those nice things about him.
i would lie (and have tons of times) and I wouldn't want it held against me forever, especially if it was to a newspaper, parents or school staff!!
:C
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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 20:36:24 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: cerise
Subject: Cerise says: I would lie (and have tons of times)
Message:
You said: ''I would lie (and have tons of times) and I wouldn't want it held against me forever.''

Well, it will be held against you forever. One little lie is the first step to a slippery slope of insanity.

I hope you will retract this statement because I find it very upsetting and am not sure if I want to talk to you anymore.

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 16:22:28 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: cerise
Subject: but the lies are still deceiving people (nt)
Message:
but not many
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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 06:23:36 (GMT)
From: You Should Know
Email: None
To: cerise
Subject: 'SalAm' not 'Salem' ...
Message:
of the witch burnings.

(And he's NOT abusive And you WON'T have a 'relationship' with him.)

YSK

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 06:52:20 (GMT)
From: cerise
Email: None
To: You Should Know
Subject: Well I DON'T Know!!!
Message:
I'm glad to hear that about the name, seriously, i was really scared by him a few days ago and thought about Salem, witches ect. Good news, so his name is Sal? hey, it it a SHE??!!!!

why won't I have a relationship with him?

unless he is a SHE!!!

:))

who are you anyway????

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 13:06:37 (GMT)
From: Salam's mum
Email: None
To: cerise
Subject: Well I DON'T Know!!!
Message:
Now what you want to have a relation with me son ha? I already got him a wife, no make that two. Now open your mouth an let me see your teeth.

Relation on f5. OOOhhhhhhhh.

FA I feel cornered here. Help. YSK, whoever you are, rescue me.

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 06:12:39 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: cerise
Subject: hangin with nice people, cerise
Message:
Yeah, I probably didn't know your dad. I lived in UK 68 - 76 and then moved back to South Africa before i came here in 78.

Yes, Salam's heart is in the right place but he does have a short fuse and an even shorter attention span.

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 01:39:26 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: PS, Glen, if you see Beth Burrell
Message:
Please give her my love and ask her to email me. Is she still an instructor? I love that woman lots.
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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 08:28:02 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: Beth was my first Ashram housemother
Message:
I moved into Brighton ashram straight after receiving knowledge and Beth was housemother. She always looked a bit odd because I believe she was intensely practising nectar technique continuously, but I liked her anyway.

Glen, pass my regards as well.

John Brauns

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 09:23:52 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: John were you in Brighton in 75 -76?
Message:
I went to the Brighton ashram several times during the two years I lived in Cheltenham.

Beth is still an instructor and has come out of the closet as a lesbian. I wish I'd known this when I knew her in 75-76 because I thought she fancied me and I was trying hard at the time to recover from a marriage and trying to go completely gay.

For my birthday in 75 or 76 (don't remember which) the community decided to have a fancy-dress party (preceded by satsang) for me, then CC, in a local church hall.

Someone gave me a wig and a dress and I got up in drag for the second time in my life. Beth and Peter Pontin (if you knew him I can tell you another story about him) drove up from Brighton. Beth kissed me and I was so embarassed because I was a closet smoker and had just had a fag in the loo.

Two A-list premies were visiting from South Africa and someone brought them along. All of a sudden I was asked to give satsang and I was not in my holier than thou CC mode but in a frumpy dress with blue flowers, a hideous blonde wig and a cheap black purse (handbag.)

I decided to make the most of it and clunked over to the ''throne'' plonked my handbag between my legs and let go. Much fun was had by all. It was during the time of glasnost so it must have been 76.

God I hope Beth's not a lifer but I wouldn't be at all surprised if Peter Pontin turned out to be a Kool Aider. (Oops sorry, dude, didn't really mean that but you sure were some funny creature - a bit too ET for my tastes. Oops sorry again Peter.) Better shut up in case he's also a monitor.

God the guy struck me as the most Kafkaesque automoton of all the then initiators.

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 12:15:11 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: John were you in Brighton in 75 -76?
Message:
Pat,

I spent 1974 (Jan-Dec) in the ashram in Brighton. When I left, just before Christmas, I moved back to Leeds. I did visit in 75 once (to see a premie medium for advice - we had a seance once in the satsang room!), so chances are we didn't meet. Nice you had a birthday party. I had my 21st birthday in the ashram and no one did anything. Not a card, cake, party, or even a 'happy birthday, John'. Although otherwise they were a friendly bunch:-)

BTW, I told a story about Beth at Latvian night, but I later realised it wasn't Beth - well it definitely wouldn't have been given what you said! - it was Steph. So anyone who heard that, sorry for my poor memory (but these housemothers all look the same don't they?).

John.

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 07:10:48 (GMT)
From: such
Email: None
To: Glen Witacre
Subject: PS, Glen Witacre, if you see Kay... (mt
Message:
fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck

remember?!

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 01:30:16 (GMT)
From: Joy
Email: joy52@earthlink.net
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: Hi, Monitor Glen Whittaker Ji
Message:
Just saying 'hi' Glen, if you're reading.

Remember when I was your secretary back at the very start of my 9 years of full-time slavery to the Guru, and you used to have me slide a cup of tea under your blanket as you meditated each morning? Gosh, I used to think that was SO unspiritual! Now I just think it's a typical English habit, hard to break.

How's Peter Potter these days? I'm still in touch with Kay, who's same as ever, really.

Well, just saying hiya if you're out there. Life's been much better for me since I left GMJ (1981), but I don't really regret the time, made lots of great friends during my years in the cult. Glen, Apart from your friends and community, what has he really done for YOU personally, for all your years of devoted service? Do you think he even cares about you one tiny bit? Read what Dettmers has to say on how much MJ really cares personally about his devotees as people. Then let that percolate for awhile under the blanket with the tea! Just some friendly advice from one of those annoying ex-premies.

Love,
Joy

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 01:34:13 (GMT)
From: Well wisher
Email: None
To: Joy
Subject: Anyone know Glen's birthday?We could all wish him
Message:
a happy birthday when the day arrives...
Maybe it would cheer him up a bit, seeing as how he has to go through all this anti-guru muck every day...

Glen-would you like us all to wish you a happy birthday?
Just let us know the day...

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 19:04:37 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Well wisher
Subject: anti-guru muck? Oh I see, everyone should be pro?
Message:
Glen had a hard time back in the 70s when he was ousted as General Secretary of DLM (UK) and the late Nick Seymour Jones replaced him.

I was surprised to hear he's still with the Maha. Must be that masochist streak in him.

Amazing to hear that his 'service' (is that what it's still called?) is to monitor what people are saying on this Forum.

How much does he dare to pass on to the Maha, I wonder?

(thinks ... boy, does that guy need bringing up to speed with the 21st century!)

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 22:54:25 (GMT)
From: sean
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: bowlingshirtcaughtinthehedge ki jai!
Message:
I'd be glad to share with mr whittaker what I'd like to do with the motherfucker!
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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 02:28:39 (GMT)
From: Monmot
Email: None
To: Lester
Subject: Kudos to you, Lester, for your courage......nt
Message:
mm
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Date: Fri, Mar 23, 2001 at 23:07:44 (GMT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Can anyone explain the 'vampire' archetype?
Message:
A few months ago I heard Carolyn Myss talk about someone who was in deep, deep trouble....I think it had to be M, from the precise details of who she was talking about.(she didn't mention any names, just circumstances)

In the lecture, she described the 'dracula' or 'vampire' archetype...it was fascinating, but after a short while, she went on to another topic...

The simple explanation, as I recall, from her, was that Dracula gives the victim an experience that they become intoxicated with and addicted to, but also sucks their life blood from them as they give the experience....it becomes the ultimate co-dependent relationship, as the victim 'needs' the experience, and can't get it anywhere but from Dracula.However, in getting the experience, their life blood also is sucked out of them.

Something like that....

Can anyone tell it better, or elaborate more on it?

She told it in relation to the person that she was talking about, which I am sure was M, although she didn't mention him by name, and when pressed for details, went on to another subject...

Thanks,
La-ex

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Date: Sun, Mar 25, 2001 at 02:00:51 (GMT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: Yeah, it bites and sucks big time
Message:
This thread is outrageous. Vampire archetype is a very apt description of the guru / devotee phenomenon as exhibited by M and PWK's. I heard a teacher (much smaller scale) referred to as an energy vortex - same thing. 'All me, me, me and you are nothing.'
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Date: Sun, Mar 25, 2001 at 01:57:07 (GMT)
From: such
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: maybe she meant that old tv pilot...
Message:
'Dracula '79'.

How about:
'Daisies, all around my head,
Springtime, yellow, green and red.'

If you're low on happiness...

Well, Goodbye Columbus, in my old VW van with the Vermont plates that say 'ANAND'. haha. oops...

just a lil' joke. [probably nobody will figure this out, anyway]

Peace and lentils,

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Date: Sun, Mar 25, 2001 at 02:25:54 (GMT)
From: Hollywood Reporter
Email: None
To: such
Subject: funny you should mention that...
Message:
I think that that's the one Michael Nouri starred in...
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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 09:10:07 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: Can anyone explain the 'vampire' archetype?
Message:
i have atended lectures a t the whole life expo on this, read about it, and learned to identify it in people.
Myss was not talking about any person in specific. if the shoe fits, wear it. if it quacks like a duck...etc.

the vampire personality is basically an energy sucking one. it involves predatory people who feel that others have enrgy they want and need in order to feel 'full'. some people are vibrant, excited, full of life, positive, giving, optimistic, active, go getters. they alway seem to have more than they need. lack and absence arent their experience. in truth, we all could be htis way if we knew it.

there are others who don;'t generate. they prey. they look for others who are energetic and get close to them. they need to feed on the bright one's energy. they have a seductiveness about them. time spent with them leaves you feeling drained and spent. no matter what you do, this is the result. every conversation you have. every date you go on. if you work alongside them, if you have a clas with them, if you have a neighbor who is....you can recognize it by your sense of strength before you see them and how you feel worn out by the time they leave . its not the substance of the conversation. its not what youre working on. its something else.

some people get energy from starting fights or setting people at one another's throats. they gather power from the rising aggressions and hatred and tensions. they may not do it overtly. its enough to be in the vicinity and hope it escalates. they feel a satisfaction if they can get it to build to the point of blowing open. they dont get into the fight itself. they feed off of it by watching and staying near it. the actual combatants will be someone else, not them. they'll be in the crowd, sucking up satisfaction. they will leave feeling they succeeded, that they accomplished what they needed to.

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 16:44:21 (GMT)
From: Mercedes
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: 'vampire' archetype
Message:
Well said. I agree they are the ultimate predator and the codependent relationship is established because no matter how depleted one feels after being with such a person you can't get enough. they are usually an addict and the prey becomes addicted to the magnetism and charm of the addict.
in maharaji's case he i think is addicted to being addored and premies without really being aware are addicted to the high of being in his presence. The important thing is that it is just that, a high, that fizzles out a day or two after the event leaving you wanting and yearning for the next fix.
It is awful really. Glad to be out. Writting this has really helped me process some more. Thanks.
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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 19:29:17 (GMT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Mercedes
Subject: Thanks.BTW,Myss was talking about M...nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 20:01:48 (GMT)
From: Monmot
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: Hey, la-ex, do you think that Myss' talk...
Message:
is on tape? If so, would you know the title? I just checked out her site and couldn't really find anything, but I don't really know what I'm looking for. Or did you see her speak in person?

I really wouldn't be able to articulate in any 'professiona;' manner about the vampire archetype, other than I've certainly encountered my fair share of psychic vampires (as I'm sure most of us have). I usually call those types of people 'victimizers posing as victims.'

Pls. post more on this if you find any info. I looked at the site for 'Inner City Books,' which is a press which publishes primarily Jugian-archetype related books. A fabulous series of books, but after searching their entire catalog, I could find nothing. I'll keep my spuds peeled in case I run into anything about vampire archetypes when I cruise bookstores, which I do quite often.

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Date: Sun, Mar 25, 2001 at 02:52:02 (GMT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Monmot
Subject: A bit more about Myss's talk, and M....
Message:
I saw Carolyn Myss speak this past summer(June) at the Omega Institute in upstate NY.
Omega is a wonderful little place, but I did not really enjoy Miss Myss, as something was amiss with the Miss.
(That's a whole other story;although I do believe she has a certain intuitive ability,she is also a real manipulative money grubber, selling her wares for all they are worth, milking her current star status for all it is worth...)

Anyway, at one point someone asks her about gurus...

Myss answers with a few pat answers, and then goes into a rambling monologue about gurus...

This is a paraphrase of what she said:

'These gurus...they are quite imperfect, as we all are...
But one of these guys is so deluded and so arrogant that he has been selling himself for a long time as a 'perfect guru' or the 'perfect teacher or master' or some nonsense like that...

Well, these guys are far from perfect, and many times they are far more imperfect than most of the followers.
But what they do, and especially this one who has portayed himself as 'perfect', is that they actually try to get their followers to believe this...and the more they do this, the bigger their 'shadow'side becomes...and they hide it more and more....until one day the former followers start to spill the beans, and oh what a mess it is then....

Their shadow side is so outrageous, that they must hide it. But they also need their followers, so they have to have people around to participate with in their little shadow games...one day, people start to talk, like they are now, and what a disaster...

What they then generally do is retreat to a favorite place where they can be worshipped without questions.
They need to be worshipped, and are quite lost without the constant worship, so they go where they can get it..they don't want to answer uncomfortable questions....

They become more reclusive, and communicate through 'secret' channels, which are regarded very highly by devotees wanting to get near the reclusive guru...

Gurus like to have that air of mystery around them, and to be somewhat hard to get to, somewhat reclusive...that way, when the call comes, it appeals greatly to the ego of the devotee...they feel more 'special' and part of the secret inner circle of the 'master'...

Myss ended by saying that this guy she was talking about was in hot water, and beginning his new hiding and denial phase....

There were more specifics, but I can't remember them now....it sure made an impact on me then...BTW, the rest of the workshop was quite disappointing and not really worth attending...

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Date: Sun, Mar 25, 2001 at 15:11:11 (GMT)
From: Monmot
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: Thanks, la-ex. I did notice....
Message:
when I visited Myss' site that there was some hawking going on. I'm sorry to hear the workshop wasn't so hot. I've liked what she's had to say in the past, but haven't kept up with her 'message' in the past few years. Veddy interesting about the perfect guru story, though, and thanks for relating the story. It sure sounds like M.

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Date: Sun, Mar 25, 2001 at 06:16:03 (GMT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: la-ex is there a tape available of Myss's talk? nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Sun, Mar 25, 2001 at 15:22:53 (GMT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: probably,but Mstuff likely edited out as OT nt
Message:
bb
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Date: Sun, Mar 25, 2001 at 00:12:43 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Monmot
Subject: vampires
Message:
I wrote a poem about how 'we sat on the vampire's lap' on this site a few years ago. Jim wanted to use it for a song. I never saved it. I didn't realize that Myss spoke about this archetype referring to M. But intuitively I felt that since we had entrusted ourselves to M, we had pretty much exposed our necks to him to do with us whatever he would! That's pretty scary! ANd he's not a very nice person!

Anne Rice made vampires look awfully seductive in her books. Not at all as scary as Maharaji. More sympathetic, I guess because they (Lestat and all) had no choice but to kill if they want to survive. Maharaji has many other choices but chooses instead to treat his devotees like snot and yet keep them tied to him. He is the worst sort of vampire.

When I see words like 'co-dependent' these days I am skeptical. We're all a bit co-dependent upon one another but few people are truly pathological energy-suckers. Maharaji and other cult leaders and gurus deserve to be pathologized though, IMO. They are truly sick.

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Date: Fri, Mar 23, 2001 at 22:45:18 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Amtext
Message:
Amtext, as most of us know, is this textbook-buying company started in the USA in around 1980. Originally, it was set up to raise money for Maharaji, staffed mostly by ashram premies, but it spread quickly and many premies got positions as 'book-buyers.' I remember guys like Sean Brogan, in the San Francisco ashram, working as book-buyers. They basically went to college campuses and offered to buy 'sample' textbooks from professors, who got them for free all the time, and then sold the books, through Amtext, to book wholesalers for a higher price, thus making a profit.

A premie who claims to have started the business in Boston, also claims that he offered the business as a means to employ premies, and, he claims, Chuck Nathan and DLM simplye stole the business from him.

Anyhow, the business grew, and Amtext incorporated in Florida, and was apparently able to funnel money to Maharaji for his personal use. Maybe money was given to Elan Vital as well. Anyhow, we were informed that Maharaji would have 'parties' at the residence to thank the bookbuyers for supporting him. Apparently, he said that money from Amtext was largely responsible for building the 'new' residence in Malibu, some of the blueprints of which are on the EPO website.

Some one recently found in the archives the corporate statement for Amtext and it is below. At that time, Amtext was owned by the officers, who are listed.

I noticed that one of the officers was Michael Dettmers and another is the ubiquitous attorney, Robert Jacobs. Other than Nathan, the only other name I recognize is Paula Blanche, who I recall as a nice person, a kind of soft-spoken woman with a pleasant disposition.

Okay, two questions:

First to Michael: You said this was one of the businesses that you had Maharaji become an 'investor' in to get income. But this statement does not list Prem Pal Rawat as an officer. How did that work? Also, was part of that deal making you and Jacobs officers? Was the income that M got from Amtext taxable to him, or was it a 'gift of love?'

Also, I note that sales in 1998 were listed as $1.4 million. This would tend to indicate that Maharaji wasn't getting the millions out of that company that people said he did. If sales were only at that level, profits had to be substantially less, due to the need to actually pay the bookbuyers. Does anyone have any additional information on the actual profits of the company?

Second: Others have said that Nathan described Maharaji as 'the beneficial owner of Amtext' at least to the premies, although probably not to the non-premies who apparently were bookbuyers. La-Ex said that at some point Nathan and the other stockholders just turned over all their shares to Maharaji, and he now owns Amtext outright. Is that true?

BUSINESS TYPE: Corporation - DATE INCORPORATED: 12/04/1985
Profit STATE OF INCORP: Florida
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Business started 1985 by officers. 100% of capital stock is
owned by officers.
CHARLES NATHAN. Background unavailable.
P D POTTER. Background unavailable.
PAULA C BLANCHE. Background unavailable.
ROBERT A JACOBS. Background unavailable.
MICHAEL V DETTMERS. Background unavailable
Amtext Inc
Text Mart
11900 Biscayne Blvd
Miami, FL 33181-2743

TELEPHONE: 305-892-0900
COUNTY: DADE MSA: 5000 (Miami, FL)
REGION: South Atlantic

BUSINESS: Wholesales and Retails Books Periodicals and Newspapers

PRIMARY SIC:
5192 Books, periodicals, and newspapers
51929901 Books

SECONDARY SIC(S):
5942 Book stores
59420000 Book stores, nsk

LATEST YEAR ORGANIZED: 1985
STATE OF INCORPORATION: FL DATE OF INCORPORATION: 12/04/1985
ANNUAL SALES REVISION DATE: 01/03/1998

LATEST TREND BASE
YEAR YEAR YEAR
(1996) (1994)

SALES $ 1,400,000E $ NA $ NA

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 04:03:26 (GMT)
From: Michael Dettmers
Email: dettmers@gylanix.com
To: Joe
Subject: Amtext
Message:
Joe,

I am leaving early tomorrow morning for London, so I will briefly answer your questions. If you have further questions for me, they may have to wait until I return at the end of next week since I can’t promise to spent much, if any, time on the Forum while I’m gone.

First let me clarify something. Notwithstanding what your research indicates, at no time was I ever an owner, either directly or indirectly (on M’s behalf) in any of the companies in which M held a beneficial interest. When I was involved, I often served as a Director and in one or two cases I also served as an Officer in those corporations. However, being a Director or an Officer is not synonymous with being an owner.

Bob Jacobs is an independent lawyer (meaning that he is not a premie) who served as M’s personal tax attorney. He also served as his trustee, in several cases holding whatever stock M owned in some of the corporations. He sometimes served as a Director of these corporations but never as an Officer. M paid taxes on whatever income was legally distributed to him. It’s been well over a decade since I had anything to do with Amtext or any of the other companies, so I don’t know what their current revenues are, nor how much is distributed to M.

Michael

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Date: Sun, Mar 25, 2001 at 02:56:23 (GMT)
From: Red light!
Email: None
To: Michael Dettmers
Subject: Amtext
Message:
First let me clarify something. Notwithstanding what your research indicates, at no time was I ever an owner, either directly or indirectly (on M’s behalf) in any of the companies in which M held a beneficial interest. When I was involved, I often served as a Director and in one or two cases I also served as an Officer in those corporations. However, being a Director or an Officer is not synonymous with being an owner.

Correct. Not necessarily. Not unless the Directors/Officers own the shares of the company which this report claims they did.
And Dettmers was quite obviously one of them.

Therefore his answer doesn't jive with the report and I believe we're owed more of an explanation than what we've just been offered.

Have a nice trip Michael!

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 15:16:56 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Michael Dettmers
Subject: Thanks Michael Dettmers, have a great trip..nt
Message:
asdg
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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 07:17:45 (GMT)
From: anon
Email: None
To: Michael Dettmers + Joe
Subject: ask Steve Gross about Amtext (nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 04:45:41 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Michael Dettmers
Subject: Amtext
Message:
owever, being a Director or an Officer is not synonymous with being an owner.

Michael, I am aware of that, but the report said the officers started the company and were the owners. That's why I mentioned it. But you've said you didn't have any ownership interest. I guess that and the report doesn't jive, or else the ownership was in the other officers. Thanks for the info.

Can you explain the process of you and Jacobs becoming officers in 1985? I realize you're leaving town. So no hurry, I just wondered how all the worked.

I also know about Jacobs, and he is all over the Maharaji corporations, to this day.

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 03:03:25 (GMT)
From: Daneane
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Amtext
Message:
I once asked the manager of Amtext's California incarnation, Text Mart; 'Is it true that M owns Amtext?' After a pause he said, 'I'm not able to answer that.' Kinda struck me as a confirmation.
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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 04:19:26 (GMT)
From: B.B.
Email: None
To: Daneane
Subject: Daneane,can you explain about the Cal. amtext ?nt
Message:
bb
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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 06:19:54 (GMT)
From: Daneane
Email: None
To: B.B.
Subject: Daneane,can you explain about the Cal. amtext ?nt
Message:
Text Mart buys and sells text books to California State University at Fullerton. They, along with some other stores, get the Professor's books requests from the campus book store, Titan Shops, for each semester and make them available to students. I worked for Titan Shops when they came in. Titan was in fear of the big wig Amtext. They'd seen the rise and fall of a few other mom and pop type places come in before. Text Mart has lasted the longest. They sell new books as well. I can't base this on anything other than other places having folded...but it seems they make their money off used books...buying and selling. I don't think they make much. Last time I asked about it they said they were just barely in the black. I just worked there as a temp during a few of the rush weeks when school started.
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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 04:35:29 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: B.B.
Subject: Text Mart is the California division of Amtext
Message:
But I think it's just a dba for California. I looked it up in the California corporate records some time ago.
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Date: Fri, Mar 23, 2001 at 23:24:22 (GMT)
From: B.B.
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Amtext
Message:
Joe-that sales number is puzzling, because a few of the big time buyers, like the Brogans(who BTW, really set the policy and run much of the company, while Chuck checks out other opportunities, which BTW, are quite laughable, especially one idea that really blew up..)have huge amounts of 'sales' each year (theirs is about $500,000.00/yr), which they make a percentage of.

So, the total sales volume of the amtext buyers has to be at least 20-30 million, of which amtext gets a percentage(probably 10-15% or so....which would give amtext a 'take' of about 2million-4.5 million....after overhead, which is not much(salaries are not great)..M gets most of what they take in...

M is the 'owner', as of a few years ago...
Chuck used to be, with M in some position as some sort of 'beneficiary', but according to Chuck, M is the actual owner, while chuck runs the day to day operation...

The Brogans are despised by most bb'ers around the country, as they constantly invade other peoples territories by training new buyers that they make a commission off of...they pretty much tell Chuck how it should go, and Chuck relies on their direction most of the time...the office staff is generally staffed by very sweet, amiable types, but a bigger bunch of 'yes men', you will not find anywhere...

Can you elaborate more on the Boston premie who says Chuck stole the business from him?
I heard something similar about a guy from Michigan..maybe same guy..
Would the Boston guy post here?

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Date: Sun, Mar 25, 2001 at 02:44:30 (GMT)
From: For the Record
Email: None
To: B.B.
Subject: Amtext
Message:
Can you elaborate more on the Boston premie who says Chuck stole the business from him?
I heard something similar about a guy from Michigan..maybe same guy..
Would the Boston guy post here?

The fellow who discovered the faculty bookbuying business and sought the help of premies to build a company that would contibute a tithe to m , only to have his idea ripped off so that a company could be developed that would be totally for m's benefit (Amtext), has already posted on the forum using the pseudonym 'RDS.'

Back in the 70's RDS lived in Boston, but today he lives in Michigan, so I do believe you're talking about the same guy.

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 00:32:37 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: B.B.
Subject: Amtext
Message:
Can you elaborate more on the Boston premie who says Chuck stole the business from him?
I heard something similar about a guy from Michigan..maybe same guy..
Would the Boston guy post here?

It was a while back, but somebody posted (I thought he was from Boston) about how DLM/Nathan stole the bookbuying business from him. It would be in the archives, or maybe even on the website, and maybe others around here remember.

Thanks for the info. Sean Brogan was not one of my favorite people. Sean's not, shall we say, in the fast reading group, though, so I am told it is his wife who is the 'brains' of that operation. Do you agree?

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 01:30:35 (GMT)
From: B.B.
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Brains?In that operation?I don't think so....
Message:
I guess Barbara, by default, could be called the 'brains' of that operation (sean was called 'blockhead' in his younger years), but I would categorize her more as the 'manipulative bitch' of that operation...
Stories about them are legendary amongst bookbuyers....kind of like 'war stories'...amongst vets....
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Date: Fri, Mar 23, 2001 at 20:34:41 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: the poster called Hanuman thinks M is God, I think
Message:
the story so far:

Date: Fri, Mar 23, 2001 at 14:35:40
From: hanuman
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: does one bless people that one ALLEGEDLY damns???

Message:

cq wrote:
ask the real Hanuman (the one with the jar of devotion still stuck on his wrist).

No human deserves to be worshipped by any other human, much though both parties
might get off on it.

Thus spake me.

.
.
.
hanuman responded:
' if you see the master as a normal human being then maybe...

(emphases mine - cq's - and, ... thinks ... 'maybe' what?) anyway, hanuman continues:

but i'll just quote maulana rumi here:
'behold in the form of the master, both the prophet, peace be
upon him, and allah almighty are standing before you.'

but you may have received deeper revelations than this ol'dude
from persia, right?

.
.
.
That's 'Hanuman's' response so far. I've asked if he/she's ready to put their beliefs up for scrutiny. But then, they already are, aren't they?

Any feedback for this person, anyone?

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 11:15:32 (GMT)
From: hanuman
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: the poster called Hanuman thinks M is God, I think
Message:
wrong man, i think we are all god, some of you wanted that i 'out' me, so i am from a race known to earth dwellers as the
WINGMAKERS..those of you who have studied ramtha's teachings
will know us, we live in your future appr. 70years ahead of your
time, but we have ways and means of manifesting in your third
dimensional realm of existence for instance via the monitor you
are staring at..i choose the name of hanuman because he is an
animal and animals live in tune with the divine laws other than
the human species.. just as cows are infected with the mad cow
disease the human race is befallen by a virus called the MIND..
for that reason the prince of peace shri guru maharaj ji, who is
one of our race, has decided to spread the knowledge of peace on
your planet..when we came across this site we felt that the
humans posting here are trying to thwart his mission and trying
to create obstacles for him.. we, your elder brothers cannot
accept that, we are not going to take it..hanuman was not only
the servant of lord ram but he also is the general of the king
of shambhala's army of enlightened warriors..these warriors are
known for the art of non-activity, they only put on their mirror-
like armor which reflects all the negativities that are being
heaved on them and throws them back on the attackers..
so as hanuman set fire to the palace of the demon king ravan
to rescue sita, the soul that longs to be reunited with her
lord shri guru maharaj ji, hanuman today will fend off all
attempts to create obstacles for our lord..don't get me wrong,
WE are all the lord but we manifest in one embodiment to
spread the knowledge of truth...with this knowledge you may get
in touch with our race..but since you seem to be deeply infected
by this mind virus, we will have to reflect your negativities
back on you, so that ultimately you will be defeated by your
own actions..but the loss of your mind will also be your sal-
vation since then the inner light can shine thru and you may
behold us..your race and our race will merge into the infinite
divine light where we will forever be in the eternal presence of
shri guru maharaj ji and we will enjoy his holy darshan forever,
we will be supremely intoxicated and drunk in the eternal NOW,
rough times ahead for the mind of mr academic pat colon or was
it conlon, pardon me, sir...and like in that fire that was set
on the demon king's palace your egos and minds will be all burned
to ashes and then you will emerge gloriously as did PHOENIX..
you dig? phoenix has WINGS , so you will have wings of under-
standing, and since we provide you with those wings we are called
WINGMAKERS...got it? that's my story folks.. BUITIFULL times
ahead of us...bolie sri satgurudev maharaj ki jai!!!

and they all lived happily ever after.........
do u like my story? it's the story of your alien brothers ..
sananda just peeped in and asked me to relay his greetings and
blessings to all of you..........................

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Date: Sun, Mar 25, 2001 at 01:35:13 (GMT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: hanuman
Subject: Put the organ grinder on line please . (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 22:19:43 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: hanuman
Subject: Hi Han u are a man
Message:
Hanuman,

A lot of folks here probably think you are as Pat suggested a satirist. I suspect that you really believe what you are saying and are sincerely attempting to speak the truth as you see it.

However I suggest to you that you really have a look at this need you have to glorify yourself. If you're serious about ascending you need to drop all these identities and become more simple. This ego trip is what's preventing you from re-uniting all the fragmented parts of yourself.

You have no idea who you're preaching to on this forum. No idea how realised or otherwise the beings you are preaching at are. You've fucked up your life with all this spiritual ego shit and seriously I advise you to take a really good look at yourself.

Doesn't matter what you were or indeed are on another dimension. You don't know who anyone else is either. Could be we all KNOW a secret that you don't. Maybe you are the one we are all waiting for to wake up from your delusions so that we can go home to rest.

I think you know what I'm saying I assure you I do understand, I KNOW where you are coming from.

Namaste , Hal

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Date: Sun, Mar 25, 2001 at 07:38:46 (GMT)
From: hanuman
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: Hi Han u are a man
Message:
i love you, hal !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 19:00:54 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: hanuman
Subject: Hanuman you are the best FV satirist since Pauline
Message:
What a hoot!
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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 18:40:41 (GMT)
From: such
Email: None
To: hanuman
Subject: I remember ramtha;past incarnation!worked atBoeing
Message:
Yes, ramtha was a wingmaker. I was supervisor. You ever been to Boeing Field? I knew ramtha, and Prem is no ramtha -- he not even the Pilot. Prem liked Boeing, too. Maybe that's why he waste zillions of rupees on 707. Or maybe he drunk and thought it was for 6-packs at 711. [got his numerology way mixed up]

Yes, Phoenix sun's afire -- but cold water from lakers put out that fire - and sober up poor deluded bird. [never good to fly when intoxicated]

Incidentally, you got some STRONG ganja there, your royal monkeyface. Care to share your chillum? If ignorance is bliss, sounds like you already 'supremely intoxicated and drunk in the eternal NOW'. Yes, such bliss, lil' grasshopper!

back to cave now with Yogi for my morning meditation. [C'mon, Yogi, put that baseball mitt down! Who you think you are -- Yogi Berra?!] Well, time to stop surfing - I love the smell of tiger-balm in the morning...

Peace and lentils,

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 19:56:20 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: such
Subject: hey swami! you in India by any chance?
Message:
... just that your posts are reminding me more and more of the 'pidgin English' I reverted to after a few years there in the late 70s.

where you hangin' out these days?

and tum kaise ho?

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Date: Sun, Mar 25, 2001 at 01:37:16 (GMT)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Apni hosti jo te re, tumko hari tori,oh say manna
Message:
leitay hein... [my phonetic spellings]

Namaste! Actually, about 100 kilometers from Katmandu today. You know, like Prempal, Satpal, and Nepal... My powerbook battery is running low, though.

You should taste the 'milkshakes' they make in the 'pharmacies' here! Whoa, dude!!!! Probably even better than the ganja Hanuman is smoking! I dunno which is better - inner light, or these maya milkshakes. Whoo, boy, yessirree! Way too much for this old swami - these hippie guys dragged me to this place. I thought we were visiting a temple or shrine today...

Clean air [except near the stinky latrines - sanitation is very poor] and lotsa wacko premies [just like bongos in US, Europe, and Oz] - and they even have a 'Knowledge Center'. I like to play tabla, but if even one more bongo premie within 1000 kilometers gives me shit, then maybe I play on drumheads of bongos, too! haha. I think bongo premie heads would make most excellent hollow hand drums. I am presently learning 16 variations of teental, dadra, giddha beats, etc. Many bongo heads, many beats, thank you, sir. Maybe for fun, when I go back to India for a few weeks, I join Hindu nationalist thug brownshirts -- and beat up on Satpal WPC or little wannabe monkey kings, yessir, mister. You know, like Arjuna fighting the army of cousins and demons... They all crazy here, anyway -- just like King's Road, Kensington, Riga, Latvia, North Beach San Francisco, Surfer's Paradise Ozzies, or Hollywood and Malibu, LA.

Pidgin English, ohoh? Mister, you might have point, cq. I used to speak the Queen's [King's] English, then went to USA and lost my British sense of 'humour' [Noah Webster spells it 'humor']. In India and Nepal, hey, no need for grammaire or grandpa. Yes, I am going now. back to practice new tala -- learned in Delhi from Fazal Qureshi [younger brother of Zakir Hussain, who plays with my old friend John McLaughlin].

da beat goes on... such blissful bhajans!

I met some dumb Americans from Seattle who want to climb K-2 -- and are waiting months. Bad time of year. monsoon season. [I think they are telling me a joke or something, mister. But I like have fun, too... yes?]

Peace and lentils,

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 17:33:12 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: hanuman
Subject: Oh my God! Bal Bhagwan Ji must have been right!
Message:
Were you at Millenium, hanuman?

Too much!

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Date: Sun, Mar 25, 2001 at 07:45:06 (GMT)
From: hanuman
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Oh my God! Bal Bhagwan Ji must have been right!
Message:
yep!
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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 18:46:08 (GMT)
From: such
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I sat on stage 3 days - I levitate but Astrodome
Message:
no flying saucer; instead more like a lead zeppelin...
maybe 'you know who' just dazed and confused for so long...

Peace and lentils,

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 12:27:21 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: hanuman
Subject: Hanuman, is this true?
Message:
Are you really from 70 years in the future? Can you tell me, did Leeds United get to become European Champions? If so, don't tell me the year, as I don't want the surprise to be spoilt.

Thanks in advance for this,

John.

PS. Next week's UK lottery numbers would be helpful as well.

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 12:16:02 (GMT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: hanuman
Subject: do you thiunk he has web tv too?
Message:
Look like it no? All one big lump of writing. We are only getting used to yours and here comes this fellow. Is he serious or is that supposed to be a joke?
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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 12:03:27 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: hanuman
Subject: this thorazine is time released for 30 days.
Message:
you have a disorder known as psychosis.
sunanda can tell you who i am. ask him.
so can Ramtha.
busted, foolio.
take your flying monkeys back to the wicked witch of the west. we're already home and the wizard's homesick for kansas.
dont you know by now? no one's gonna come and save the human race. not till each one of us saves ourselves. you save someone, they get lazy. then they hate you for robbing them of their finest hour.
there's noplace like home.
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Date: Sun, Mar 25, 2001 at 07:53:48 (GMT)
From: hanuman
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: this thorazine is time released for 30 days.
Message:
i tol' ya before janet, sunanda is wrong spelling, the proper
continues down under,

still down under
is sananda , thorozine don't work on me no more, sorry
oops looks like it DID work, thanks janet

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 11:44:51 (GMT)
From: Tim Matheson
Email: None
To: hanuman
Subject: Thanks, Hanuman
Message:
Your words have brought me to tears. I cannot possibly explain the depth of their meaning. I'm sure you KNOW that feeling though, he he he!!

I have taken the liberty to immortalize your words at my own site listed below. As you will see, it is a shrine to those of us who know OUR LORD MAHARAJI, love HIM and would travel 6000 miles just to kiss HIS HOLY LOTUS FEETS.

Join us there in the chatroom some evening, as we often sing ARTI and tell darshan stories long into the night. We love HIM SOOOOOOO much!

Inner agya is for real,

Tim

http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/ilovemaharaji


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Date: Fri, Mar 23, 2001 at 22:07:26 (GMT)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Let's just give the poor chimp a break [+ bananas]
Message:
CQ,

Hanuman's little monkey brain is still obviously affected by all the Skinnerian behavior modification he suffered in the Rawat and Hindu experimentation laboratory. I used to see plenty of poor simian creatures like him in cages at graduate school [and in the temples].

Just give Hanuman some loving truth bananas. Monkeys love bananas, after all! Maybe watch out for his teeth, though -- some monkeys really 'bite'...

Peace and lentils,

da lil' swami

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 15:17:18 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: suchabanana
Subject: as Simians ourselves, let's not be too ...
Message:
... er, speciesist(?) on the guy.

His fantasy, however, belongs strictly in the realm of the space-cases
(but don't you get the feeling that somewhere ... at the back of his mind perhaps, he somehow wants to believe something like that?)

I wonder if he'll find out the truth? But first he'll have to question himself. Meditate on it, as it were.

Let's have a look at him doing just that - click here for another of those special David Attenborough moments, when, with hushed voices, we peer through the dense jungle foliage into the private world of the practising premie ...

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 17:46:43 (GMT)
From: such
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: monkey see, monkeydoo; hanuman worship Cheetah...
Message:
aka Cheatah.
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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 18:50:15 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: such
Subject: cheetah say, ask Judi (from Daktari) Daktari say:
Message:
open wide
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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 18:56:18 (GMT)
From: such
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: http://www.citizenlunchbox.com/monkey/GIFS/cheetah
Message:
bolie shri satguru dev, the Cheatah ki jai!

Peace and lentils,

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 04:38:37 (GMT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: suchabanana
Subject: bananaji------ot
Message:
Nice to see you back. I've noticed you a couple of time but did not say anything.

Your old mate 'Dungi'.

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 07:07:21 (GMT)
From: such
Email: None
To: salam
Subject: let's have a Beetles reunion! (OT
Message:
Salam,

will try to email you - but keep discreet.

your beetle buddy

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 09:09:04 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: such
Subject: Roger that
Message:
As long as cherise is not involved in it.
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Date: Fri, Mar 23, 2001 at 22:01:02 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Another premie on the ropes, or thinking that
Message:
... he/she can get us to see the 'light.'

I haven't been reading Haunuman's posts because the few I looked at were boring, and I could tell by the subject lines what was going on.

If I respond to such trash it's usually going to come out rude, like 'get a life' or 'stuff it' and there is no use in that.

--f

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 12:30:10 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: NO! Hanuman's cool - Read his post above!
Message:
Read his response to cq in this thread - awesome information!

John the reconverted.

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 14:34:47 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Reconverted John?? What R the lottery numbers?(nt\
Message:
1293847
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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 10:01:52 (GMT)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: This hanuman character is incredibly boring
Message:
I second that opinion Francesca, here is a pathetic pyscho reeking of self righteous vengence and misplaced anger.

What little brain he had he surrendered years ago, now he can't even come up with an original name or idea to deal with what is going on out here.

So this jerk thinks we are supposed to fear the wrath of the some spiritual cartoon character to atone for our errant ways.

What a fucking laugh, what an arrogant stupid moron, the joke is on hanuman if this is the best remedy he can come up with to suit his desparate self righteous need to cause us to re-examine our position as exe's.

Rave on monkey breath

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 10:10:21 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Brian Smith
Subject: This hanuman is a ''spiritual cartoon character''
Message:
You're on a roll, Brian.
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Date: Fri, Mar 23, 2001 at 16:58:00 (GMT)
From: Gregg
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: 21st century PWK's
Message:
A question for those of you who left Maharaji's lotus feet more recently than I: what are today's premies (I mean PWK's) like?

I went to one program a few years ago, and most of the premies seemed to be my age (close to fifty). Survivors of the Age of Aquarius, still hoping for some of that 70's guru magic to brighten up their lives.

I hate to sound lacking in compassion - these people are certainly well-meaning and probably harmless - but it all seemed a little sad.

Are there any young PWK's? Smart young idealists? Who could this played-out cult possibly appeal to these days?

I can understand how more intense cults (like the bizarre beyond belief Scientologists, or the Raelians) attract new members, but who would be attracted to the bland pronouncements of Prem Pal Rawat?

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 17:32:51 (GMT)
From: Joy
Email: None
To: Gregg
Subject: 21st century PWK's
Message:
I often wonder this myself. WHAT could possibly attract people to Maharaji's cult, with the window dressing it has today? From what I gather by reading on this site, the message is exactly the same as it was in the 70s, just a little more disguised, and the externals are well cleaned up to fit the latest image M likes to project (the corporate CEO flying around in his private jet wearing Armani suits and Rolex watches). What could possibly be attractive about this to people nowadays? Particularly since they are the ones being asked to finance his lifestyle? At least in the early days there was a mystic/Eastern mumbo/jumbo to it that was alluring to us drug-fazed hippies. It's a mystery to me how he manages to rope people into the bhakti-juju thing with the image he projects.

That photo looks to me like nothing more than people experiencing darshan-juju, as Patrick would call it. Nothing to do with their breath or meditation or anything else. Deluded camp followers getting off on the presence of who they perceive as their Lord. Pathetic.

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 02:12:18 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Gregg
Subject: 21st century PWK's - mostly 70s premies, 50s
Message:
The naive ones are nice and the smart ones are nasty. The naive ones send money and do table-cloth service at video events. The nasty ones are mostly invisible and do their dirty work behind the scenes.

The nice ones really want to propagate Knowledge but they they are insecure and ashamed of Elan Vital. The nasty ones don't really want to propagate Knowledge except as a means of bringing in more bucks to secure their jobs with EV.

The nice ones are often fairly neurotic and the nasty ones are often mad. There are also many on anti-depressant drugs or in therapy.

The nice ones are often not rich and quite stuck in dead end jobs. The rich ones are snobs and self-centered.

I met two kids of premies who came to video events and seemed interested for two weeks and then I never saw them again.

They are all defensive about having such a strange and inexplicable thing as a ''Master.'' The nice ones are apologetic about it and the nasty ones use many rationalizations and justifications.

All of them in the end are quite ordinary people who hyave settled into middle-age and are not evry excited about bringing peace and love to the whole world.

And they are all darshan-juju addicts and see you know who as something more than human but still human. Takes some mental acrobatics to do that and most are quite peculiar in some way.

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Date: Fri, Mar 23, 2001 at 20:37:21 (GMT)
From: Kev
Email: None
To: Gregg
Subject: 21st century PWK's
Message:
Hi Gregg

I am one of the more recent ex-premies and I am in my early 40's (I will be 41 in May) and was one of the youngest in my small community. The average age of your premie now is 50+. There are some young premies about but alot of them are the children of premies. Also I am happy to say that most of the young ones do not stay around for all that long after getting K. I think the young ones are more realistic than our generation was and I think they see M for what he is and do not fall so easily for that devotion crap that we did.

And they have access to the inernet which enables them to find out the real truth about Lardy.

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Date: Fri, Mar 23, 2001 at 18:50:38 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Gregg
Subject: 21st century PWK's
Message:
Although I didn't leave recently, and not knowing when you left Gregg, why don't we turn to EV to answer that question.

Today they've published pictures (scroll down to see them) to illustrate the kind of audience that is still listening to the Maha. The picture says it all.

My advice to Rawat?

'Sell Beragons. Buy Zimmer frames'

;)

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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 17:11:19 (GMT)
From: Mercedes
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: 21st century PWK's
Message:
I left after the Oxnard event which I attended and as I was looking around at the audience I noticed that we were all middle age or thereabouts, no young people which was very noticeable.
I agree that nowadays people receive K and they mostly don't stick around. Why would they? There really isn't much substance to what he talks about.
I agree the pictures say it all.
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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 17:35:53 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Mercedes
Subject: Today's kids are too smart to fall for M's spiel
Message:
Like the song goes: 'We don't need another hero ...'
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Date: Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 14:17:27 (GMT)
From: Moldy warp
Email: None
To: cq and everyone
Subject: M's evil words from cq's link.
Message:
Here is some disgusting 'satsang' from that B****** found at cq's link above.. I post it because it's made me feel sick and aroused all the horrible feelings I associated with premieland.It encapsulates everything that is evil about Lard's message. I am literally shaking with rage. Here goes. Brace yourselves guys:

'If life is like walking a tightrope, you'd going to need a balancing stick. If life is like walking a tightrope, you cannot afford to make any mistakes. If life is like walking a tightrope, then every step that you take needs to be careful and deliberately taken. You cannot run. Your focus, your attention needs to be very, very centered. We're talking about life. We're not talking about an experiment. We're not talking about a dream. We're talking about the ultimate reality.

Do you have the right balancing pole to walk this tightrope? You need that because balance is so critical and there is no room for mistakes. No first reprieve, no second reprieve, no third reprieve. If you lose it, you lose it. The force of gravity is acting continuously on you, and it's saying, 'You can't stay suspended up there, come down here.' And you reply, 'But. I can do this if I'm balanced.' And to augment that balance, you need a balancing rod, and the balancing rod is Knowledge. Without it, you're going to be a victim of your own ignorance, a victim of your own unconsciousness, a victim of own own misunderstanding.

And once you have the balancing rod, you have to listen - both to this heart and to the Master. You have to go slowly, one step at a time. Every step needs to be deliberate. Don't rush. There are people who have their balancing rod, but still they are reluctant. Listen. You must cross this in this lifetime. Don't waste your time in feeling afraid. You've got to do the walking. Spend your energy in being conscious, not afraid.

In this life, there are all these fears, 'What's going to happen to me?' 'Can I really do this?' 'I don't know if I can do this.' 'Am I ready?' 'What if I fail? What if I slip? What if I fall?' But come on, let's get it over with. Let's walk this tightrope. Balancing rod in hand, and listening to the Master, be ready to take each step. It's okay. Do it, go on. Enjoy it. And the next thing you know, you're on the other side. It's not a puzzle.

The armchair traveler isn't going anywhere. He doesn't even need a ticket.

Some people say, 'You don't need a Master.' The consequences have not hit home yet, have they? Because here is a person who hasn't been anywhere. Here is an armchair traveler. How does he do his traveling? He sits back and says, 'Hmm. Japan would be a nice place to go. Yeah, I think I'm going to go to Japan. Oh, on the other hand, India would be a nice place to go. Yeah, I think I'll go to India.' He hasn't decided on anything yet. The armchair traveler doesn't go anywhere. And his advice is: you don't need a guide. Of course, anybody in that person's position doesn't even need a ticket. They're not going anywhere, it's just fantasy and imagination.'

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Date: Fri, Mar 23, 2001 at 20:41:41 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Looks like an advert for 'Depends'
Message:
It really is a middle-aged group, isn't it? Those pictures sure show that.

But I see some kind of change there, in the fact that Elan Vital is showing any pictures besides those of Maharaji. Could it be that focus groups show people don't like looking at someone who looks like Sun Myung Moon?

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Date: Fri, Mar 23, 2001 at 19:34:04 (GMT)
From: Aghast
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: The Greys are coming! nt
Message:
piga
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Date: Fri, Mar 23, 2001 at 20:08:59 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Aghast
Subject: 'let me take you to my... er, non-leader'? nt
Message:
pupengwin
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