Forum V: Archive
Compiled: Thurs, Apr 12, 2001 at 23:29:13 (GMT)
From: Mar 31, 2001 To: Apr 11, 2001 Page: 4 Of: 5


Jim -:- Question to Turner -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 17:21:57 (GMT)
__ Katie H. -:- Life of Brian, indeed -:- Thurs, Apr 05, 2001 at 15:47:47 (GMT)
__ G -:- Turner, what are you claiming? -:- Thurs, Apr 05, 2001 at 00:32:06 (GMT)
__ Moldy warp -:- Another Question to Turner 'The one remaining' -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 21:35:16 (GMT)
__ Turner -:- Question to Turner -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 20:13:57 (GMT)
__ __ Tonette -:- I do have a question for you Turner -:- Thurs, Apr 05, 2001 at 01:38:24 (GMT)
__ __ Sandy -:- Question to Turner -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 21:23:24 (GMT)
__ __ Jerry -:- Question to Turner -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 21:01:47 (GMT)
__ __ Susan -:- turner, you freak me out -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 20:49:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ Turner -:- turner, you freak me out -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 22:05:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ New-Age Redneck -:- Here, from the spokesman... -:- Fri, Apr 06, 2001 at 00:07:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ gerry -:- turner, you're a disgrace to ellipses and... -:- Thurs, Apr 05, 2001 at 04:30:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Bin Liner -:- Tomorrow Belongs To Me , that's you no ? nt -:- Thurs, Apr 05, 2001 at 02:05:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Moldy warp -:- turner, you into brutality too -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 23:18:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- turner, you into brutality too -:- Thurs, Apr 05, 2001 at 00:30:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jerry -:- turner, you freak me out -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 23:09:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Now THIS is funny! Turner's pants fall down! -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 23:08:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jethro -:- Hi Susan -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 21:03:02 (GMT)
__ kev -:- Life of Brian -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 19:21:15 (GMT)
__ __ Tony(Aussi Ji) -:- I was blind and now I see.........Ahhhhhhhhhh. NT. -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 19:58:16 (GMT)
__ Jethro -:- Turner is the true devotee. -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 18:24:24 (GMT)
__ __ Way -:- Turner-two questions and a comment -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 19:06:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ Kelly -:- Funny you should mention trees, -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 21:28:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ Turner -:- Turner-two questions and a comment -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 21:23:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Way -:- Turner-you're not off the hook that easily -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 22:02:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Turner -:- Turner-you're not off the hook that easily -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 23:24:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Sherlock Halmes -:- Are you the artist formerly known as Mirror? nt -:- Thurs, Apr 05, 2001 at 15:31:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Helen -:- Turner-you are scary -:- Thurs, Apr 05, 2001 at 01:59:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ moldy warp -:- Turner- your word of the day -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 23:45:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Moldy Warp -:- Right on Way!! nt -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 22:06:50 (GMT)

gerry -:- Here's what it's all about to me... -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 15:38:49 (GMT)
__ Francesca -:- Thanks for pulling up this diamond from Kev -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 21:27:03 (GMT)
__ Kev -:- Thanks Gerry -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 18:42:54 (GMT)
__ __ New-Age Redneck -:- Good one, Kev -:- Thurs, Apr 05, 2001 at 22:38:13 (GMT)
__ such -:- Joy, Happiness,Freedom replace anger's burden! (nt -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 17:07:06 (GMT)

Lester -:- Lester's farewell -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 12:54:48 (GMT)
__ moldy warp -:- Lester/Nick - I've met you ! -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 21:42:59 (GMT)
__ __ Nick -:- Lester/Nick - I've met you ! -:- Thurs, Apr 05, 2001 at 06:30:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ Moldy Warp -:- Lester/Nick - I've met you ! -:- Thurs, Apr 05, 2001 at 23:12:20 (GMT)
__ Tony(Aussi Ji) -:- Nice one Nick.... -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 20:05:23 (GMT)
__ wolfie -:- Lester's farewell -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 14:32:38 (GMT)
__ Bin Liner -:- Hi Nick , Hope you're keeping well ...... -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 14:25:54 (GMT)
__ Archie McDonald -:- Right on Nick - Excellent -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 13:30:24 (GMT)

Abi -:- Jagdeo 'not a priority' for EV -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 09:11:51 (GMT)
__ Tonette -:- Abi, I am sickened -:- Thurs, Apr 05, 2001 at 02:38:42 (GMT)
__ Joe -:- Jagdeo 'not a priority' for EV -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 20:36:06 (GMT)
__ cq -:- Is this to be M's defense??? - that he was 'not -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 20:05:32 (GMT)
__ Gail -:- I think Rajeshwar was the judge. nt -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 19:33:19 (GMT)
__ Selene -:- Jagdeo 'not a priority' for EV -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 19:22:19 (GMT)
__ __ moldy warp -:- Odd too that Rawat CAN feel bad -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 22:15:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ Selene -:- the acceptance of revisionism -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 22:24:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Abi -:- the acceptance of revisionism -:- Thurs, Apr 05, 2001 at 01:20:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ selene -:- got it thanks Abi -:- Thurs, Apr 05, 2001 at 01:47:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ moldy warp -:- the acceptance of revisionism -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 23:05:30 (GMT)
__ Francesca -:- This is disgusting, thanks for the update -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 16:53:32 (GMT)
__ __ Abi -:- We hoped to meet Maharaji -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 17:06:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ Susan -:- When I wrote I wrote that way too -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 18:07:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Kelly -:- When I wrote I wrote that way too -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 21:06:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ Katie H. -:- That is sad - really -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 17:23:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ bill -:- rawat thinks he has no peers in any category..nt -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 17:20:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ Francesca -:- I'm a bit sensitive today, that got me -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 17:18:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ bill -:- May rawat never change...nt -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 17:23:29 (GMT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- Abi ? Would like to add a enw chapter -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 15:31:03 (GMT)
__ __ Joe -:- Jagdeo's eyes -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 20:39:14 (GMT)
__ __ Abi -:- Abi ? Would like to add a enw chapter -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 16:07:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Of course ! -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 16:28:09 (GMT)
__ Brian -:- 'Feeling Good' about life with Knowledge -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 13:44:23 (GMT)
__ __ Richard -:- Abi, thanks for posting that -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 15:21:02 (GMT)
__ __ Kelly -:- Cathy Glieby not Kathie Thomas? -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 14:17:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ Ian Dury -:- Isn't the YACHT registered to Cathy Glieby ? nt -:- Thurs, Apr 05, 2001 at 02:32:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ Brian -:- Thanks Kelly -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 14:58:20 (GMT)
__ Sandy -:- Jagdeo 'not a priority' for EV -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 12:50:34 (GMT)
__ Sir Dave -:- Jagdeo 'not a priority' for EV -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 10:49:12 (GMT)
__ __ Abi -:- Jagdeo 'not a priority' for EV -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 11:01:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ bill -:- You have a good father Abi..He must be torn up..nt -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 17:17:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ Francesca -:- Your dad sounds like a cool guy ;-) n/t -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 17:00:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ Katie H. -:- Jagdeo 'not a priority' for EV -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 11:55:22 (GMT)
__ CW -:- Jagdeo 'not a priority' for EV -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 10:06:26 (GMT)
__ __ CW -:- Jagdeo 'not a priority' for EV -:- Thurs, Apr 05, 2001 at 06:38:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ CW -:- Jagdeo 'not a priority' for EV -:- Fri, Apr 06, 2001 at 03:08:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Katie -:- Jagdeo becomes a priority for EV -:- Fri, Apr 06, 2001 at 11:12:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ Katie H. -:- Say what? -:- Thurs, Apr 05, 2001 at 18:04:38 (GMT)
__ __ Katie H -:- What do you think about this, Cat? -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 12:30:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ CW -:- What do you think about this, Cat? -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 13:15:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Katie H. -:- What do you think about this, Cat? -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 16:42:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Sandy -:- What do you think about this, Cat? -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 15:41:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Bullshit, CW -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 15:19:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Kelly -:- Well Said! Cynthia and Brian nt -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 15:26:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Brian -:- Nonsense, Cat -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 14:16:18 (GMT)
__ __ Marianne -:- Since when did you get in the loop? -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 10:22:31 (GMT)
__ __ janet -:- Jagdeo 'not a priority' for EV -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 10:14:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ Abi -:- Jagdeo 'not a priority' for EV -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 10:59:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jethro -:- Jagdeo, as well as being a Brahmin is -:- Thurs, Apr 05, 2001 at 12:29:54 (GMT)

jumbler -:- new old premie -:- Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 23:26:33 (GMT)
__ salam -:- new old premie -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 10:46:02 (GMT)
__ Helen -:- new old premie -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 03:35:49 (GMT)
__ Pat Conlon -:- you made a better entrance than I did -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 02:49:23 (GMT)
__ __ Katie Darling -:- you made a better entrance than I did -:- Thurs, Apr 05, 2001 at 00:24:40 (GMT)
__ Connie -:- new old premie -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 00:38:36 (GMT)
__ janet -:- all the feelings were true. -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 00:20:29 (GMT)

Susan -:- Parlokananand -:- Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 15:37:49 (GMT)
__ Joe -:- Parlokananand -:- Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 17:27:59 (GMT)
__ __ Francesca -:- Great - I received K from a pedophile -:- Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 20:57:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ david m -:- Parlokananand -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 16:11:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Katie H -:- Hi David (sort of OT) -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 21:47:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ david m -:- Hi David (sort of OT) -:- Thurs, Apr 05, 2001 at 14:29:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ Marianne -:- What about who Baptised you, girlfriend? -:- Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 21:39:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Katie H. -:- What about who Baptised you - oh my god -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 21:56:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Another One! How Many More? -:- Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 23:42:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ janet -:- let's recap, to be thorough: to date we have: -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 00:15:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Abi -:- let's recap, to be thorough: to date we have: -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 01:54:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Yuck! Padarthanand was MY K initiator! n/t -:- Thurs, Apr 05, 2001 at 16:17:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Mercedes -:- let's recap, to be thorough: to date we have: -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 05:04:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Abi -:- let's recap, to be thorough: to date we have: -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 05:50:33 (GMT)

Archie McDonald -:- Response to Marianne`s questions -:- Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 15:06:32 (GMT)
__ Bin Liner -:- Nazi Rally at Ally Pally -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 00:21:28 (GMT)
__ __ Francesca -:- Brilliant post, Bin! n/t -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 03:24:30 (GMT)
__ janet -:- ahh-so you were a black Rawatwhiler, eh?? -:- Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 21:51:17 (GMT)
__ Bazza -:- Archie, didn't we used to share a bed? -:- Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 21:32:18 (GMT)
__ kev -:- Hello Archie, I may know you -:- Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 19:37:45 (GMT)
__ Marianne -:- Thanks for that, Archie -:- Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 18:51:30 (GMT)
__ DeProGram Anand Ji -:- Welcome aboard Archie! NT -:- Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 18:30:37 (GMT)
__ Pat Conlon -:- Thanks for introducing yourself so friendly -:- Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 17:34:27 (GMT)
__ Francesca -:- Cheers to you Archie -:- Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 17:23:21 (GMT)
__ __ janet -:- ally pally was my first festival too-- -:- Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 22:12:44 (GMT)
__ __ Richard -:- Thanks for your story Archie /nt -:- Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 17:48:40 (GMT)
__ a0aji -:- truth -:- Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 16:32:53 (GMT)
__ wolfi -:- commitment -:- Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 16:27:44 (GMT)
__ __ a0aji -:- commitment -:- Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 17:17:50 (GMT)
__ Kelly -:- How on earth did you catch them? -:- Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 16:12:02 (GMT)
__ __ Archie McDonald -:- How on earth did you catch them? -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 09:41:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ Kelly -:- Thanks Archie,now I can sleep at night! nt -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 14:31:49 (GMT)
__ __ Richard -:- Just lie still and pretend you're a carrot. /nt -:- Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 17:46:42 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- Maybe the rabbits granted you a boon! -:- Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 15:32:26 (GMT)
__ __ a0aji -:- Maybe the rabbits granted you a boon! -:- Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 16:35:37 (GMT)

Joe -:- Maharaji's words -- what an idiot -:- Mon, Apr 02, 2001 at 22:02:51 (GMT)
__ DeProGram Anand Ji -:- Maharaji's words -- what an idiot -:- Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 18:46:08 (GMT)
__ __ Joy -:- Anything is More Interesting than M -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 01:04:29 (GMT)
__ bill -:- I think it is an Ex's site. A good one...nt -:- Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 10:00:56 (GMT)
__ Gregg -:- Wow. -:- Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 01:24:29 (GMT)
__ Pat Conlon -:- Please, please don't squeeze the Charmin -:- Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 00:18:06 (GMT)
__ Brian -:- I don't know how you do it -:- Mon, Apr 02, 2001 at 22:27:33 (GMT)
__ __ Maharaji -:- I am good at this -- I have the gift of simplicity -:- Mon, Apr 02, 2001 at 23:13:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ Dr. Spock -:- I am good at this -- I have the gift of simplicity -:- Mon, Apr 02, 2001 at 23:20:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Francesca -:- M and Dr S -- you have LOLOLOLED my day n/t -:- Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 05:20:15 (GMT)
__ __ Francesca -:- You are sleepy, you are getting verrrryyyyy -:- Mon, Apr 02, 2001 at 23:10:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ gErRy -:- Mahahaha reminds me of Mr. Happy... -:- Mon, Apr 02, 2001 at 23:25:09 (GMT)

Jim -:- Is this what they call spiritual masturbation? -:- Mon, Apr 02, 2001 at 16:17:25 (GMT)
__ Francesca -:- Origin stories: hamster -- can you tell me -:- Mon, Apr 02, 2001 at 22:01:09 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- Origin stories: hamster -- can you tell me -:- Mon, Apr 02, 2001 at 23:58:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ Francesca -:- Oy, by then, unfortunately, I just threw stuff out -:- Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 01:52:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ Susan -:- don't you think he looks a bit like a hamster too? -:- Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 01:45:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ moldy warp -:- Hamster with his pouches stuffed with cash nt -:- Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 23:13:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ moldy warp -:- going round and round on the wheel of karma nt -:- Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 23:15:07 (GMT)
__ Cynthia -:- No, it's called ''Propagation Desperation'' n/t -:- Mon, Apr 02, 2001 at 16:47:49 (GMT)

Joe -:- holy water -:- Mon, Apr 02, 2001 at 14:30:20 (GMT)
__ The other Joe -:- Hi Joe -:- Mon, Apr 02, 2001 at 18:16:36 (GMT)
__ __ JSK (aka Joe) -:- Hi Joe -:- Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 11:54:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ Joe -:- Thanks (nt) -:- Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 03:47:42 (GMT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- Get it from Shri Nangli Sahib. Volunteer? -:- Mon, Apr 02, 2001 at 15:25:34 (GMT)
__ __ bill -:- Shri Gargoyle Ji toe bath water, a holy bargain nt -:- Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 13:23:03 (GMT)
__ Susan -:- charnamit (?) -:- Mon, Apr 02, 2001 at 14:40:33 (GMT)
__ __ Connie -:- charnamit (?) -:- Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 00:50:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Is that prasad non-biodegradable or -:- Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 02:55:25 (GMT)
__ __ G -:- charnamit, from charan + amrit -:- Mon, Apr 02, 2001 at 16:56:32 (GMT)
__ __ Cynthia -:- Or was it ''Charanmrit'' ??? n/t -:- Mon, Apr 02, 2001 at 16:50:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ janet -:- G's got it--'CharanAmrit', or charnamrit -:- Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 01:47:12 (GMT)


Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 17:21:57 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Question to Turner
Message:
In a thread below, Turner, the only alien to have actually received Knowledge at Millenium, said the following:

The cult is indeed stumbling and will fall...we are in agreement there Jim. And what will stand in its place will be something undeniably true. What will be the death knell for the cult will be all the people like you who've been hanging on waiting for some magical moment to happen will be forced to face the fact they've spent the last 20+ years doing little more than hero worshipping, and in that time their experience had gone about as deep as a pimple. These folks will indeed depart, but not without trying to make as much of a stink as they can. No biggie. The ones remaining will know something the others were never able to know. And they will have the pleasure of quietly ushering in people who really want to know about this life...some of whom will have stumbled upon the satellite channel while surfing late one night; some of whom will catch some streaming video on the net; some will have received a video or audio cassette from a friend or co-worker, or some new media that gets utilized.
You see Jim, there is a hunger to know the real answers out there that jerks like you have no bearing on. You are just noise Jim...a bunch of static. The sum total of your life...static. Something to be proud of big guy.

What I want to know is how Turner distinguishes himself from the sandal-grabbing hordes in 'Life of Brian' who could not, would not, be shaken off their 'path' no matter what happened. The 'master' told them to fuck off and suddenly 'The Master told us to fuck off!'

Turner, can't you see where you're heading? What's wrong, can't you rent 'Life of Brian' on your planet? Pity.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Apr 05, 2001 at 15:47:47 (GMT)
From: Katie H.
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Life of Brian, indeed
Message:
Maharaji himself needs to watch Life of Brian, because he might end up in the exact same situation :). My prediction, anyway, although, unlike Brian, M might not mind having a few devotees around the house.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Apr 05, 2001 at 00:32:06 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Turner
Subject: Turner, what are you claiming?
Message:
'The ones remaining will know something the others were never able to know. ... know about this life ... the real answers'

What exactly are you claiming to know that 'the others' do not know? What evidence can you provide that 'the others' do not know what you supposedly know?

Be detailed and precise, tell me all about it. Go ahead.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 21:35:16 (GMT)
From: Moldy warp
Email: None
To: Turner
Subject: Another Question to Turner 'The one remaining'
Message:
Turner wrote or rather spewed:
'You see Jim, there is a hunger to know the real answers out there that jerks like you have no bearing on. You are just noise Jim...a bunch of static. The sum total of your life...static. Something to be proud of big guy.'
and:
'The ones remaining will know something the others were never able to know.'
Moldy replies:
So, Turner, you are implying that the ones remaining will be like you - those who know that really it is fine to judge and condemn fellow human beings. How truly spiritual you will be.How genuinely loving??? No??? Oh how I wish my experience of knowledge had gone deeper than 'a pipmle' then I too could be like you.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 20:13:57 (GMT)
From: Turner
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Question to Turner
Message:
Good call bringing my post up to the top of the Active List Jim...I thought there were some things in it that warranted more exposure.

Say, do you get many of your deepest insights into life and existence from Monty Python movies?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Apr 05, 2001 at 01:38:24 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Turner
Subject: I do have a question for you Turner
Message:
I don't want to get into the middle of this. Live your life the way you want. You appear to be having quite a jolly good time here by-the-way.

I really am curious. Are you going to Amaroo? Have you ever attended an event there? If you do go, will you post a synopsis of the event here on the forum?

Tonette

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 21:23:24 (GMT)
From: Sandy
Email: None
To: Turner
Subject: Question to Turner
Message:
Hi Turner,

Indulge me on my birthday, would you? Tell me how you'd feel if one of Mahraji's trusted mahtamas violated your child right under your own roof while you thought two high souls were communing, and then you got ignored when you found out the truth and made noise about it?

What is this, Turner? Acceptable losses in the War of the Worlds or something? Just keep on going within while your brothers and sisters get sick and some die from unsafe practices at DECA and while some premie children get molested and the molestor goes on unstopped for years? Who was supposed to be minding the store, looking out for life and limb? Is this really none of our business? Help me out here, Turner. Believe me, I really don't want to wake up either and have to smell the coffee...but it smells like something's burning already...

Sandy

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 21:01:47 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Turner
Subject: Question to Turner
Message:
Turner,

Do you really believe Maharaji has the inside scoop on what life is about?

In your dreams.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 20:49:06 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Turner
Subject: turner, you freak me out
Message:
seriously, there is a coldness about your posts that gives me the hee bee jee bees.

I know you can't control how I feel blah blah..but I ALWAYS get the creeps when I read one of your posts. that creepy hair standing up on the back of your neck, somethings not right here feelings.

Why do you think I feel that way?

I read a lot of the premie posts, and there is a kindness in a lot of them that reminds me of why I still have fond memories of those days sometimes. Your posts just scare me. Why?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 22:05:33 (GMT)
From: Turner
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: turner, you freak me out
Message:
I read a lot of the premie posts, and there is a kindness in a lot of them that reminds me of why I still have fond memories of those days sometimes. Your posts just scare me. Why?

Because I efficiently choose my words? Because I’m not trying to be kind to people who do not exercise any kindness themselves? Because I really don’t give a hang if you like me or not? Because I’m not trying to turn you around…I could care less? Because I have little tolerance for bullshit? Because I’m proud of the truth that remains undeniable to me? Because what I say is true…and you can’t take the truth? Because………?

I don’t know Susan. Whatever I say to explain it is meaningless because you’re going to come up with your own explanation for your experience…like you always do...and what you come up with is going to be a combination of what you see and what you want to see. And what you see will be a composite of what is there, with certain fuzzy or missing pieces that, if there, would upset your comfort threshold past what you are willing to accept. Very few people are so brutal with their vision as to see existence in full detail. If they did, they would know that therein lies the greatest kindness.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Apr 06, 2001 at 00:07:06 (GMT)
From: New-Age Redneck
Email: None
To: Turner
Subject: Here, from the spokesman...
Message:
for world peace: '....Because I’m not trying to be kind to people who do not exercise any kindness themselves....' and another pearl, '...Because I have little tolerance....'

There it is in a nutshell folks. Wow, I wish I had his master... he's really got something there. Yeah, M's REALLY gonna bring peace to the world..... in your dreams, Turner! Don't you realize how moronic those two statements were?

How about this pearl, '...Because I’m proud of the truth that remains undeniable to me? Because what I say is true...'

That one is the winner.... it's true because 'I' say so! Yeaaa for your master, he's turned you into a totally compassionless ego monger! AND YOU are actually PROUD (your word) of it! Great, just great! Jeez, if I were to look at the reasons for NOT being a premie, THIS would definitely do the trick! Good job, Turner. You are better anti-cult advertising than we could ever be. The problem is.... you THINK you're great! NOT!!!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Apr 05, 2001 at 04:30:04 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Turner
Subject: turner, you're a disgrace to ellipses and...
Message:
I order you to stop using them forever.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Apr 05, 2001 at 02:05:56 (GMT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: Turner
Subject: Tomorrow Belongs To Me , that's you no ? nt
Message:
nz
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 23:18:35 (GMT)
From: Moldy warp
Email: None
To: Turner
Subject: turner, you into brutality too
Message:
as well as judgement and condemnation (oh, not to mention intolerance and pride- congrats you nearly have the full wack of the 7 deadly)?? Wot a great teacher you had. Wish I still had one that good! AND aren't you going to reply to my post above??? (or is my limited grasp on existence not worth wasting your elevated breathe on??)
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Apr 05, 2001 at 00:30:56 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: Moldy warp
Subject: turner, you into brutality too
Message:
Hi Mold - doing the early hours thing again? Reading Turner's like listening to the Archers - sort of compulsive, I reckon. PS, will give you a bell tomorrow, by His Disgrace..
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 23:09:00 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Turner
Subject: turner, you freak me out
Message:
Very few people are so brutal with their vision as to see existence in full detail. If they did, they would know that therein lies the greatest kindness.

Turner, you talk a lot of shit, you know that? What does seeing 'existence in full detail' mean? Anything?

You're whacked, boy. In the head.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 23:08:40 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Turner
Subject: Now THIS is funny! Turner's pants fall down!
Message:
Because I efficiently choose my words? Because I’m not trying to be kind to people who do not exercise any kindness themselves? Because I really don’t give a hang if you like me or not? Because I’m not trying to turn you around…I could care less? Because I have little tolerance for bullshit? Because I’m proud of the truth that remains undeniable to me? Because what I say is true…and you can’t take the truth? Because………?

I don’t know Susan. Whatever I say to explain it is meaningless because you’re going to come up with your own explanation for your experience…like you always do...and what you come up with is going to be a combination of what you see and what you want to see. And what you see will be a composite of what is there, with certain fuzzy or missing pieces that, if there, would upset your comfort threshold past what you are willing to accept. Very few people are so brutal with their vision as to see existence in full detail. If they did, they would know that therein lies the greatest kindness.

(Emphasis added)

This is rich. To think that you'd actually bluster on about your 'efficient' choice of words and then, a few lines later, speak in empty, Maharaji cult talk! Tell me, Turner, how in the world the word 'experience' fits here. Go on, try. Say something. TRY to save face but the fact is, my anonymous friend, it doesn't. It's just empty, meaningless filler. It's cult talk.

You know, you guys get together and everything's 'experience this' and 'experience that'. I HATE that talk because it says nothing. Worse, it acts as a brain signal jamming device. The premie mind hears the word 'experience' and knows immediately that they're not supposed to actually think anymore, they're in 'experience land'. And you thought you were talking clearly!

You're a fucking idiot!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 21:03:02 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: Hi Susan
Message:
The Turners of the premie world really think they are the bees knees of premiedom and above the rest. I remember one of these Turners telling me once that we(special high premies) are 'celestial being of the highest order'.

Turners also really give me the creeps too.
I am sure prempal is proud of Turner.

I hope all is well with you.
Love from Jethro

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 19:21:15 (GMT)
From: kev
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Life of Brian
Message:
Well said Jim.

My favorite quote is 'you are the Massiah; and I should know I've followed a few in my time' ;)

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 19:58:16 (GMT)
From: Tony(Aussi Ji)
Email: parisw@ozemail.com.au
To: kev
Subject: I was blind and now I see.........Ahhhhhhhhhh. NT.
Message:
Ahhhhhhhh.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 18:24:24 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Turner is the true devotee.
Message:
Turner is obviously one of the few, in fact maybe the only one who has realised the truth. That's why he is happy that most of the premies are leaving because there will be more darshan for him(Turner).

I haven't seen this type of premie for ages, he's really depressing.

For those reading this that do not understand, the above trasalates to 'Turner is a sanctemoneous arsehole'.

Hey maybe Turner is in the running to be the next PM.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 19:06:03 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Turner
Subject: Turner-two questions and a comment
Message:
Turner,

(1) Was the hall in Portland really full? (You said that you attended the Portland Program at the Arlene Schnitzer Hall and that the hall was full, and Maharaji was in top form. Elan Vital officially reports that the attendance was 2000, and it isn't like Elan Vital to underestimate their numbers. But the seating capacity of that hall is 2776. Perhaps you didn't notice the approximately 700 empty seats).

(2) Will you be attending Amaroo 2001? (They are expecting a total of 5000, and perhaps you could get back to us with your figures. Try to be more accurate, though, please).

You seem to be correct that the majority of people who have received the seed of Knowledge and who have diligently watered it for several years have ended up with not much of a tree, or even a sproat. I am confident that it will indeed be much more pleasant for you and Maharaji when only the people with properly maturing trees will attend the events. I can tell that you are anticipating that day with great expectations. And I can tell that your own particular tree must be very tall and strong already, full enough even to shade those around you. I can tell this by the tone of your posts here and the compassion behind your words to Jim S., Jim H., and Marianne.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 21:28:02 (GMT)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Funny you should mention trees,
Message:
Way, you must be psychic!
This was EV's little e-news gem today

Quote from M
'In this garden that is so magnificent, what have you sown? Gardens have a wonderful thing that happens in them. When you sow something and take care of it, it grows. And amazingly enough, one day, you are surprised that that little seed that you once held in your hand has now grown to be a magnificent tree. What have you sown in your garden? Have you augmented your beautiful garden? Or have you just gone around and said, 'I don't like that tree there, I'm going to change that tree, that tree is too skinny, that tree is too tall, I'm going to chop that one down, I'm going to put some rocks there, I'm going to do this, I'm going to do that…'

Have you ever stood there and looked around and seen how magnificent, truly, this garden is? If you haven't, you should.'

....Er..Excuse me, but isn't that what a good gardener does, all the time? weeds out, thins, transplants etc etc. Otherwise it all get's overgrown or reverts to wilderness. Watch out Turner, you might be too skinny!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 21:23:31 (GMT)
From: Turner
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Turner-two questions and a comment
Message:
Way, way, way, way. This is such a tired and worn thin argument of yours…this “you are not a good example if you speak bluntly when spoken bluntly to” argument. What, no energy to be creative today?

I tell you what. Try busting into a premie’s house and see how bluntly they treat you. See what kind of compassion they can muster up. Or try slandering them publicly with misinformation and see how enlightened they are, whether they turn the other cheek or not. Go ahead put it to the test. And if they don’t respond with love, kindness and understanding, and you have a lawsuit on your hands, that would prove that Maharaji is a fake. Okay Way? Go ahead and be a first-class dink to a premie and if they don’t respond like Jesus did in the movie Ben Hur, Maharaji must be a fake. There you go…a sure fired way to prove it.

Yaaawwwn!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 22:02:43 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Turner
Subject: Turner-you're not off the hook that easily
Message:
Turner,

I will grant you one thing - you may, MAY, be a nicer person than you appear to be when you are here in 'enemy territory' so to speak. But like Susan, I have found all of your posts to be utterly lacking in any feeling of 'heart.' Rather, your posts give the impression of a idealist, fundamentalist, elitist, misanthropic, proud cult member. Maybe you're not that way in real life - maybe that's just the way you seem when you are reacting to Jim or others who taunt you a little.

But really, Turner, if Knowledge is working as well for you as you claim it is, then we should be able to expect someone who keeps his cool with the English language and who doesn't resort to name-calling even when he is called names. Right?

If you are so close to God and Truth, then we should be able to expect a feeling of love and compassion to manifest from you even when you are addressing the lost ones. Right?

If you are so in tune with the Tao, then you would realize that Jim S. can pursue the Tao all on his own, because he is a full human being with all the universe to support him. Eh?

If you are not a cult member, then it would not bother you so much that Jim S. has left a guru-figure that he no longer admires. N'est-ce pas?

If you are really following the advice of Prem Pal Rawat, then you would know that it makes him very very nervous when his students run off at the mouth that way you have here. You would know that he has literally taken away nearly all your speaking rights and would prefer for you to remain silent and not visit this website in the first place. Remember?

By the way, Turner, please do not get me wrong. I don't have any problem with you or anybody else speaking bluntly. Go ahead, speak as bluntly as you can. I actually appreciate that in a person. But sanctimonious and juvenile insults I can do without.

Another by the way, you didn't answer either of my questions. Are you here simply to rant and taunt, or to engage in mutual, respective debate. I ask the Portland question because I think you must not have noticed part of the theatre being partitioned off by drapery or some such. Your point that Maharaji's group (cult) is growing healthfully is probably, therefore, just wishful thinking and the attendance at his programs is diminishing. I asked about Amaroo because at least that would be a topic of some interest to talk with you about, insteady of the usual bla bla bla about ultimate truth that you get into. I'd like to know if you are currently putting your time and money where your mouth is by attending your Master's program and living in the on-site tenting or not.

I fear that you do not wish to tell your plans about Amaroo or anything else that would reveal any useful information about your position about Maharaji and Knowledge. Ok, fine, don't. But we've already determined that you like Rawat and we don't. All this rehashing is borrrrrring. If you don't want to talk, then go away again, and stay away.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 23:24:12 (GMT)
From: Turner
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Turner-you're not off the hook that easily
Message:
But really, Turner, if Knowledge is working as well for you as you claim it is, then we should be able to expect someone who keeps his cool with the English language and who doesn't resort to name-calling even when he is called names. Right?

Sorry, Way, I must have missed something I said. When did I resort to name-calling? When did I lose my cool? I did mention the word bullshit a few times, but that’s just because it’s my word of the day and I’m trying to work it into my daily speech so I don’t forget what it means. Oh yeah, I did tell Jim that the sum total of his life amounts to no more than static. Personally, I thought that would be useful information for him that he could maybe grow from.

If you are so close to God and Truth, then we should be able to expect a feeling of love and compassion to manifest from you even when you are addressing the lost ones. Right?

If I am “so close to God and Truth”…hmmm. What do you base this expectation upon Way? Ever been close to God and Truth before yourself? Would someone “close to God and Truth” be limited to soft-spoken, sugar coated tones of expression? And is God and Truth so far away from anyone? In other words Way do you have a clue what you’re talking about?

If you are so in tune with the Tao, then you would realize that Jim S. can pursue the Tao all on his own, because he is a full human being with all the universe to support him. Eh?

So you are in tune with the God and Truth after all…you stinker you! Hey, that explains why you are speaking with such “a feeling of love and compassion” and you’re so “cool with the English language and [don’t] resort to name-calling even when… called names [yourself]”. I touch your feet Way! By the way, I see from your next zinger you’re just as cool with the French language? Are you Canadian Way? Eh?

If you are not a cult member, then it would not bother you so much that Jim S. has left a guru-figure that he no longer admires. N'est-ce pas?

Could care less...as long as he doesn’t get in my way, Way. (See what I mean about the French?)

Go ahead, speak as bluntly as you can. I actually appreciate that in a person. But sanctimonious and juvenile insults I can do without.

I’m sorry Way, once again, what did I say that was a “sanctimonious and juvenile” insult? You’re not referring to me using my word of the day again are you? For the future, are un-sanctimonious and mature insults okay for someone who is as “in tune with the Tao” as me?

Another by the way, you didn't answer either of my questions.

You are correct, I didn’t.

Are you here simply to rant and taunt, or to engage in mutual, respective debate.

That is genuinely funny Way…“mutual, respective debate” on this forum...that is an oxymoron if I ever heard one!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Apr 05, 2001 at 15:31:48 (GMT)
From: Sherlock Halmes
Email: None
To: Turner
Subject: Are you the artist formerly known as Mirror? nt
Message:
nt Hal
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Apr 05, 2001 at 01:59:59 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Turner
Subject: Turner-you are scary
Message:
Turner--
You came here and declared that those people who hadn't really had an experience would fall by the wayside and those remaining who were REALLY in touch would experience more than ever before. I am paraphrasing this.

Then you dismissed those who complain about Maharaji's lies, and hypocrisy as just static. Specifically, you said that Jim was so much static.

Now, do you have any notion why people might be reacting to your words a bit? You have hardly sold the reasons why knowledge is so grand when you sound like a fanatic. You're no different than those cultists who say 'everyone else will go to hell except for us, as we are God's special chosen ones.' Cultists like that become frightening because they will do anything and say anything as they feel they are impervious to the laws of nature and exempt from exercising simple human decency. After all, they are 'special.'

It seems you have no clue what this website is about, but if you want to put your fingers in your ears and tell yourself that a huge group of human beings are nothing but static, you're just dissociating from reality. I hope you realize that. Maybe there is something in your 'experience' about compassion, love, etc. or is that a bunch of static too?
Helen

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 23:45:20 (GMT)
From: moldy warp
Email: None
To: Turner
Subject: Turner- your word of the day
Message:

Turner wrote:
'Oh yeah, I did tell Jim that the sum total of his life amounts to no more than static. Personally, I thought that would be useful information for him that he could maybe grow from.'

Moldy Replies:
Such insight, such ego(weren't you listening to the Lord's latest pronouncements on the folly of the latter???)

Oh great one, where do you get all your insight from? Oh- don't tell me - it's from your 'word of the day' - BULLSHIT


Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 22:06:50 (GMT)
From: Moldy Warp
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Right on Way!! nt
Message:
x
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 15:38:49 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Here's what it's all about to me...
Message:
Hello Archie,

Its nice to see someone from my neck of the woods. I live in Portsmouth and used to go to Southampton prog's and sometimes Bournemouth ones so I may know your face. I'm sure we must know a lot of the same people. I came to my senses just before Christmas. Leaving was the best Christmas present I ever gave myself.

I like you felt very angry at letting myself get caught up in such lies and bullshit but for me that anger has gone and been replaced with joy and happyness that I now have my own life to led free of M.

I do not post as much as I would like to, meanly due to lack of time but I do try to read as much as possible each night. Just reading the forum has been a great help to me I hope it helps you as much.

Take care Archie,

Best Wishes Kev.

A soothing balm indeed, thanks fellas. I wonder what the EV monitors think when they read something like this.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 21:27:03 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Thanks for pulling up this diamond from Kev
Message:
It is indeed nice to know that our posts are benefitting more than each other, although that's enough of a reason right there.

The forum can be a healing ground where folks can listen to the discussion and not jump in, nor even be noticed. Lurking is a unique way to participate enough to help one's own inner process without having to say anything, without anyone knowing they are here, without being judged.

Thanks for sharing this both of you.

--f

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 18:42:54 (GMT)
From: Kev
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Thanks Gerry
Message:
But one of my hopes is that when 'the EV moniters' read this site they will start to question their own life and belief system, after all they are only human like us.

So as our American friends might say 'wake up and smell the coffee guys, its time to get real'

And hello Glen We Know your there, come join us; you know you want to.

Love Kev.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Apr 05, 2001 at 22:38:13 (GMT)
From: New-Age Redneck
Email: None
To: Kev
Subject: Good one, Kev
Message:
Kev: I wonder how long it will be until they (the monitors) get the message. I can't believe that they read this site and it has no effect. I wonder if they have a rotational duty-section to prevent over-exposure...... he he :-)

Truth is contagious....

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 17:07:06 (GMT)
From: such
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Joy, Happiness,Freedom replace anger's burden! (nt
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 12:54:48 (GMT)
From: Lester
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Lester's farewell
Message:
This is Lester's last post. Inspired by the honesty and sincerity of so many of the contributors to the Forum, and in particular Jim Sander in the last week or so, I feel compelled to abandon my pseudonym: it is with no sense of triumph nor the desire to confront that I do this. In fact it is probably more with sadness that I feel compelled to formally and openly close my ties with Maharaji after 29+ years of investing most of my time, resources, energy, devotion and much much more in him. Prior to posting this, I wrote a letter to a couple of 'higher echelon EV members' whom I respect and those premies in the North East whom I worked with most and trusted most during the 5 years or so I was regional contact there till late '99, and expressed my reasons for leaving EV. 'Lester' has already documented these reasons on this site.

Anyway, for the record, Lester is Nick Keeley, whom some of you might know from a variety of locations where I served Maharaji as a premie: Loughborough, Durham (UK), Mulhouse/Paris, Rome,(all these locations between 1971-75), Leicester 1975-91 (hence Lester) and for the last 10 years Newcastle.

Coincidentally, I'm also going away for 2/3 weeks tomorrow, so am unlikely be in the Forum for a while, but will return as 'Nick'.

My thanks to all those of you who have helped me find the courage to face the reality of my journey so far and to be truthful to myself.

Nick

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 21:42:59 (GMT)
From: moldy warp
Email: None
To: Lester
Subject: Lester/Nick - I've met you !
Message:
Though maybe you don't remember me. I think you even work in the same establishment as I do. I'll Email you if I've still got your address.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Apr 05, 2001 at 06:30:28 (GMT)
From: Nick
Email: None
To: moldy warp
Subject: Lester/Nick - I've met you !
Message:
Bin Liner and Dermott both have my e-mail address. I'm more than happy for them to give it to you.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Apr 05, 2001 at 23:12:20 (GMT)
From: Moldy Warp
Email: None
To: Nick
Subject: Lester/Nick - I've met you !
Message:
i've already Emailed you at work - same place as me ! (didn't say anything potentially embarrassing I hope!)
Love Moldy
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 20:05:23 (GMT)
From: Tony(Aussi Ji)
Email: parisw@ozemail.com.au
To: Lester
Subject: Nice one Nick....
Message:
G,day Nick,
Good onya mate.welcome to your new life.It only gets better from here on in.

Cheers Tony.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 14:32:38 (GMT)
From: wolfie
Email: None
To: everyone
Subject: Lester's farewell
Message:
Farewell!!

A simple heartfelt statement makes me feel better, than a lot of preaching about love and thankfullness. The love of the premies, in times where we could talk freely, inspired me more then the hybe of big programms and the pushing towards probagation . For myself, I like stay in contact with the ones being honest and having the courage to express themselfs truely and uncensored.

love shines through on EPO

thanks ......wolfie

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 14:25:54 (GMT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: patrick@dorrityp.freeserve.co.uk
To: Lester
Subject: Hi Nick , Hope you're keeping well ......
Message:
....we live near Stratford - upon -Avon now , don't know whether you knew that or not .

Come & visit if you're ever in the area .

Kate sends her love .

Have a good hol.

All the best : Pat Dorrity

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 13:30:24 (GMT)
From: Archie McDonald
Email: None
To: Lester
Subject: Right on Nick - Excellent
Message:
0
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 09:11:51 (GMT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Jagdeo 'not a priority' for EV
Message:

Hi,

thought you'd be interested to know that my father passed on a letter about Jagdeo to Rawat's secretary, Kathy whatshername, at Amaroo. She said she would NOT pass it on to Maharaji because she didn't want him to 'feel bad'. She said she would NOT read the letter herself because she has been ill recently and is just getting better, has a lot to do at Amaroo and has 'to look after herself'. She said that the letter will be sent to the legal department. She also made a point of saying that the Jagdeo issue was 'not a priority' for Elan Vital.

She also said that Jagdeo was sent back to his village in 99. Why this happened was not made clear. As someone pointed out it is unlikely that Jagdeo is living in a mud hut because he is a highly educated man (a former Judge?) and he and his family probably come from the Brahmin caste.


Abi

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Apr 05, 2001 at 02:38:42 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Abi, I am sickened
Message:
I am physically sickened when I read the dirty truth of how 'The Master' is dealing with this issue. Your father is a far more patient man than I am woman.

Of all the people who walk the earth pediophiles are the lowest.

Hang in there, I can only hope that thru continued efforts eventually Jagedo will be held accountable and M will have to answer for harboring him. Oh I want to hear about it when it happens.

Kind regards, Tonette

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 20:36:06 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Jagdeo 'not a priority' for EV
Message:
That's really outrageous.

If Kathy whatshername didn't even read the letter, how did she know it would make Maharaji 'feel bad?' One wonders if Maharaji EVERS 'feels bad,' except when things don't go well for HIM, that is. One of the results of 'feeling bad' is doing something about it.

If rooting out child molestation isn't a 'priority' what is?

This 'Kathy' ought to be ashamed of herself, and if she has been ill, maybe she ought to get out of servicing the Lord and take care of herself.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 20:05:32 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Is this to be M's defense??? - that he was 'not
Message:
that he was 'not informed' of the situation?

Abi, if you're to have any hope of bringing that blatant confidence trickster to any kind of accountability, you're going to have to make sure that any communication between you and him is registered in some way.

Am I right in thinking that Maharaji is the person your letter was addressed to?

If so, a letter from his representative saying she won't even show him your communication is not getting anyone anywhere.

The ostrich has had his head in the sand for a long time now. It'll take more than hoping for fair-play to get him to face facts.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 19:33:19 (GMT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: I think Rajeshwar was the judge. nt
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 19:22:19 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Jagdeo 'not a priority' for EV
Message:
I'm sorry to hear this Abi.
So they 'don't want to make Maharaji 'feel bad'
Odd when he is in the biz of making others supposedly 'feel good'
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 22:15:24 (GMT)
From: moldy warp
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Odd too that Rawat CAN feel bad
Message:
I thought he was supposed to be beyond the emotions of mere mortals.

Quote from the young Rawat from elsewhere on this site:

Guru Maharaj Ji, are you permanently in God-consciousness?

Yes. I am permanently in God-consciousness.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 22:24:59 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: moldy warp
Subject: the acceptance of revisionism
Message:
It seems the students of the teacher have managed to reconcile the revisionism to the extent that someone in EV could not even feel odd writing to an ex and saying 'I don't want to make M feel bad' . These are the kinds of things that sent me running but don't seem to bother many of the premies who have been around M as long as I was.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Apr 05, 2001 at 01:20:15 (GMT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: the acceptance of revisionism
Message:
Selene,

Just want to make it clear that nothing was written. I reported a verbal exchange. I doubt if we'll ever get a letter.

Thanks

Abi

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Apr 05, 2001 at 01:47:36 (GMT)
From: selene
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: got it thanks Abi
Message:
I missed that but am not surprised it was not in writing.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 23:05:30 (GMT)
From: moldy warp
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: the acceptance of revisionism
Message:
Too true. Revisionism really bothered me, but none of my premie friends seemed bothered. I guess in premieworld, for 'rational thought' read 'mind - strictly to be avoided'. Wot a relief it was to find this site!!!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 16:53:32 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: This is disgusting, thanks for the update
Message:
I hope this turn of events isn't hard for you. It may only confirm what you've known all along, so I don't know, hopefully it's actually good for purposes of closure. EV seems to be openly saying that they and M don't care about your feelings or their responsibility for what happened to you, and in fact, they are sending your letter to the legal department to cover their hides.

That is pathetic. What you are talking about happened to you, and they can't even stand hearing it. Or here's another take. Do they hear the EV coffers going 'ka ching'? Do they think you have a good case, or is even the fear that you have a good case disturbing them? In other words, well they may have hurt your psyche, but oh my aching wallet. That's even worse yet.

So much for their practice of K, eh? The 'Master' can't bear to hear that a student has been f*cked over, and can't bear to hear that his organization might be in trouble. Meditate M. You might even like it.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 17:06:22 (GMT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: We hoped to meet Maharaji
Message:
You know it is a bit sad because Dad and I really hoped that Maharaji would read the letter and then sit down with us and discuss it. Silly us. My fathers letter was written to Maharaji as a fellow father and it is sad that he wont even read it. Why can't Maharaji even say sorry?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 18:07:55 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: When I wrote I wrote that way too
Message:
I think the best way to approach was to write as if one expects the correct, and human, and compassionate, response from him.

It says volumes when he doesn't respond or forwards the letter to his legal department.

And speaking of the legal department. They wanted to know if I wanted a meeting. I said I did not have a need to meet with them, but if they wanted more information, had questions, I was very willing to meet with them, under one condition, that I have a witness with me of my choosing to the meeting. And I told them why, because in the past the people I told about Jagdeo 'forgot' that I ever told them. I wasn't willing to be burned this way a third time. Also, they scare me, why would I want to meet with them alone? They did not ask for a meeting. Michael Dettmers can confirm this.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 21:06:21 (GMT)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: When I wrote I wrote that way too
Message:
Oh Susan
This is just all so horribly neglectful, I can hardly believe it.
Any responsible organisation would treat your request with consideration and respect. But to totally ignore it speaks volumes to me. They don't want to know.
You and Abi have been so brave in trying to get your complaints heard. It is utterly shameful that, after all this time, they will still not listen.
Well, we're listening, and so are more and more people, with and without 'Knowledge' The truth will out!
You have my support,
Kelly
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 17:23:58 (GMT)
From: Katie H.
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: That is sad - really
Message:
I'm so sorry that that happened to you and your dad, Abi. I wrote a somewhat cynical post to you below about the possibility of getting a response from Maharaji, but now I do see why you and your father expected to get an acknowledgement from him. I don't think it was a silly expectation - well, not if one expects Maharaji to behave like a human being (which I guess I don't).

Love to you,
Katie

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 17:20:37 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: rawat thinks he has no peers in any category..nt
Message:
asgd
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 17:18:24 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: I'm a bit sensitive today, that got me
Message:
...crying. You and your dad seem like sincere, lovely people. It sounds like you attempted to do the noble and fair thing. You'll never be wrong for doing that.

love, f

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 17:23:29 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: May rawat never change...nt
Message:
sdfgsf
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 15:31:03 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: jmkahn@club-internet.fr
To: Abi
Subject: Abi ? Would like to add a enw chapter
Message:
on the Jagdeo page ?

Maybe you'd write some comments, and your father's report ...

JM

The Jagdeo Issue

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 20:39:14 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Jagdeo's eyes
Message:
Jagdeo always had these creepy eyes, with one bigger and 'blanker' than the other. Does anyone know if he had/hs a glass eye?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 16:07:32 (GMT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Abi ? Would like to add a enw chapter
Message:
Dear Jean-Michel,

I can't decide about that yet because my father is going to wait for 8 days so see if they'll reply. Also I can ask my father if he is willing to have his letter published here but I can't assume that he will. I'll ask him.

Abi

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 16:28:09 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Of course !
Message:
I didn't talk about it, but that was obvious for me, only if your father agrees. And maybe he'd want to add some comment.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 13:44:23 (GMT)
From: Brian
Email: brian@ex-premie.org
To: Abi
Subject: 'Feeling Good' about life with Knowledge
Message:
[Kathie Thomas] said she would NOT pass it on to Maharaji because she didn't want him to 'feel bad'. She said she would NOT read the letter herself because she has been ill recently and is just getting better, has a lot to do at Amaroo and has 'to look after herself'.

Kathie has a way with words, doesn't she? I can see why she has been chosen to 'Direct' Elan Vital away from the 'bad feelings' that can result from being aware of any factual information.

On one level she's admitting that she finds the information personally upsetting. On another, she's acknowledging that nothing will come of it - other than Rawat possibly feeling 'bad' if he is constantly reminded of the damage done.

For EV to admit that they're protecting yet another criminal mahatma by 'sending him' elsewhere - as happened with mahatma Fakiranand - only says that the organisation's priorities haven't changed since 1973. Rawats ability to look - and now feel - good in the face of evidence to the contrary is still at the top of the list.

But the fact that Prempal Rawat and Elan Vital are harboring a paedophile - and feeling good about it - will remain at the top of the homepage on this site.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 15:21:02 (GMT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: Abi, thanks for posting that
Message:
This is an example of precisely why M has never been held accountable for anything he's done. There has always been someone or someones running interference so he doesn't have to see what his actions or inactions result in. Why would anyone entrusted to that level of responsibility and juju proximity ever jeapordize their position? Tell him that one of his trusted representatives was a sexual predator - are you kidding? He might get upset with ME and I'd lose my precious position. To hell with what's ethically correct. It's MY EXPERIENCE that is important.

It's a bit like the Siddhartha story isn't it? The young prince kept cloistered so he would never know the suffering of the world. Ultimately he wants to know what is beyond the palace walls and discovers that 'Life Is Suffering' which becomes the first Noble Truth of Buddhism. The only difference is that Sid wanted to know the truth that existed beyond his cloister but M has fiercly defended the walls of the cloister against the truth. It is both tragic and heartwarming that the betrayed innocent children are the ones who may ultimately breech the walls.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 14:17:34 (GMT)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: Cathy Glieby not Kathie Thomas?
Message:
I don't know. But let's be sure who we're talking about.
Don't quote me on this but I think Cathy Glieby is his secretary or PA, and Kathie Thomas is in the PR team.
Either way, whoever it was who didn't want M to feel bad, more likely didn't want him to get mad, and shoot the messenger. I hear he's not nice to be near when he's angry.
This emphasis on 'feeling good' no matter what it costs to others, is truly despicable.
Kelly
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Apr 05, 2001 at 02:32:36 (GMT)
From: Ian Dury
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Isn't the YACHT registered to Cathy Glieby ? nt
Message:
xxx
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 14:58:20 (GMT)
From: Brian
Email: brian@ex-premie.org
To: Kelly
Subject: Thanks Kelly
Message:
I saw the different name in Cat's post below after I had already posted that. Abi had spelled Cathy with a 'K', and I got her mixed up with Kathie Thomas.

So I stand corrected - Cathy Glieby and Kathie Thomas are completely different EV officials who display any amazingly-sychronized ability to waive personal judgement on issues as black-and-white as Rawat's uwillingness to deal with charges of child abuse by any other synchronized EV official.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 12:50:34 (GMT)
From: Sandy
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Jagdeo 'not a priority' for EV
Message:
Hi,
thought you'd be interested to know that my father passed on a letter about Jagdeo to Rawat's secretary, Kathy whatshername, at Amaroo. She said she would NOT pass it on to Maharaji because she didn't want him to 'feel bad'. She said she would NOT read the letter herself because she has been ill recently and is just getting better, has a lot to do at Amaroo and has 'to look after herself'. She said that the letter will be sent to the legal department. She also made a point of saying that the Jagdeo issue was 'not a priority' for Elan Vital.
She also said that Jagdeo was sent back to his village in 99. Why this happened was not made clear. As someone pointed out it is unlikely that Jagdeo is living in a mud hut because he is a highly educated man (a former Judge?) and he and his family probably come from the Brahmin caste. -Abi

Dear Abi,

If this is how someone who allowed us to call him our father, mother, brother, friend, riches, wisdom, Lord, all treats us, God help us if we fall into the hands of a stranger.

I still don't understand what happened between your dad and Maharaji & Co. right after it happened, but I can relate to the paralyzed and somewhat helpless feeling of being unable to get 'over the wall' to have some real conversation with anyone on the inside staff, especially Maharaji himself, that is not part of the prearranged program of events.

The type of answer your dad got from the Amaroo secretary is the kind of smarmy answer that is totally unprofessional, but it gets by because it is a one-on-one and does not impact on the bigger public image they are trying to project. I hate that. If what happened to you had happened to a loved one of that secretary, I bet she would have acted differently.

There are parts of my head that are still copped by Maharaji due to whatever has gone down over the years. I will be the first one to admit it, and I am sorting through my stuff. But when I hear about your experience and how your situation and your dad's letter are still being sluffed off by secretary (I would bet it's not just her decision), I have no doubt that this aspect of EV and Maharaji's mission are what's in the real need for serious revision to let the dirt out of the wound and allow for a healing. Either way, I hope that you are doing well and have found ways to heal despite the stonewalling.

Sandy

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 10:49:12 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Jagdeo 'not a priority' for EV
Message:
I don't think you or your Father will get any joy from Elan Vital. Surely, a private prosecution is the way to go, against Jagdeo. If that happens, then Elan Vital would have to co-operate in finding Jagdeo and bringing him to justice. Failure to co-operate could be in contempt of court.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 11:01:50 (GMT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Jagdeo 'not a priority' for EV
Message:
Dear Sir Dave,
we know that. It's just that my father wanted Maharaji to listen to him.

I guess plan B will have to take effect in the next week or so.

Abi

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 17:17:45 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: You have a good father Abi..He must be torn up..nt
Message:
hgkn
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 17:00:07 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Your dad sounds like a cool guy ;-) n/t
Message:
n/t
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 11:55:22 (GMT)
From: Katie H.
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Jagdeo 'not a priority' for EV
Message:
Hi Abi,
I'm pretty shocked that this woman would say that about Jagdeo. But I'm not surprised that she wouldn't give the letter to Maharaji - I'm guessing you probably were not either. If he 'doesn't see' the letters, then he doesn't have to take responsibility - obviously. Hope your dad wasn't too surprised by this.

Love & thanks for letting us know,
Katie

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 10:06:26 (GMT)
From: CW
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Jagdeo 'not a priority' for EV
Message:
Cathy Glieby is recovering from Cancer treatment.But if she is true to form, she WILL action it in the way she described.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Apr 05, 2001 at 06:38:28 (GMT)
From: CW
Email: None
To: Katie H
Subject: Jagdeo 'not a priority' for EV
Message:
See above. Abi's post
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Apr 06, 2001 at 03:08:04 (GMT)
From: CW
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: Jagdeo 'not a priority' for EV
Message:
Higher up the page. She got a response. As I said . Patience and trust are wonderful virtues.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Apr 06, 2001 at 11:12:56 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: Jagdeo becomes a priority for EV
Message:
Cat, I'm inclined to think that it wasn't 'Patience and Trust' - it was talking about it on this forum. I tend to be a patient and trusting person myself, and these are virtues, but they need to be tempered with experience and discrimination. I don't see EV's action on this matter as anything particularly commendable - although I guess we'll see.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Apr 05, 2001 at 18:04:38 (GMT)
From: Katie H.
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: Say what?
Message:
Don't understand what you are talking about, since you're replying to yourself here (or so it appears)
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 12:30:32 (GMT)
From: Katie H
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: What do you think about this, Cat?
Message:
If you care to answer. I'm guessing you at least know OF the people involved.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 13:15:22 (GMT)
From: CW
Email: None
To: Katie H
Subject: What do you think about this, Cat?
Message:
Yes I do.Put it this way,do people generally sort out such problems on National Television? Only on Judge Judy! I think Abi should be patient . Trust her father. Wait for a response. Then treat it as confidential.But then again , I'm professionally biased. My training tells me that the public arena rarely assists the victim - there is always some-one hanging off them looking to fulfill their own agenda. Often ambulance chasing Lawyers...........
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 16:42:23 (GMT)
From: Katie H.
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: What do you think about this, Cat?
Message:
Hey Cat -
I am not sure whether people sort out this stuff on national TV or not (don't watch it). It's my feeling that Abi and Susan came forward and identified themselves and told their stories not to 'assist' themselves, but to help OTHER victims of Jadgeo's. (There are at least several, maybe more, people out there who were also molested by the guy as children.) I respect them for this, as it is not easy to make this kind of information about yourself public, and they have thus KNOWINGLY left themselves open for harassment - as you may have observed.

You wrote: I think Abi should be patient . Trust her father. Wait for a response

From what I understood Abi to say, her father wanted a response from Maharaji - something he's entitled to. If 'people around Maharaji' won't even give his letter to Maharaji, and this was clearly stated, then how is he going to get a response? No matter how long he waits. I believe he also told Gurucharanand about the abuse some time after it happened - he didn't get a response then either. How patient do people have to be - especially when it's been made clear to them that their problem is not (and apparently NEVER has been) 'a priority'? If you ask me, I think both Abi and her father been exceedingly patient. And sometimes one has to do something to MAKE their problem 'a priority'.

BTW, re the confidentiality - EV's got to ask for it, IMHO, and have a VERY good reason to ask for it.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 15:41:50 (GMT)
From: Sandy
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: What do you think about this, Cat?
Message:
Yes I do.Put it this way,do people generally sort out such problems on National Television? Only on Judge Judy! I think Abi should be patient . Trust her father. Wait for a response. Then treat it as confidential.But then again , I'm professionally biased. My training tells me that the public arena rarely assists the victim - there is always some-one hanging off them looking to fulfill their own agenda. Often ambulance chasing Lawyers........... -CW

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

Dear CW,

Do you believe that the 'omni's' we all believed Maharaji was on top of (omnipotent, omnipresent, omnisicent) are symbolic honorariums or real powers? And if they are real powers, then why did he allow it (Jagdeo) to happen to Abi and Susan (and others I am sure) in the first place right in his (Maharaji's) own back yard where it could turn around later (now) and bite him on the ass (negatively affect his followers and those looking)? Let's leave the world of metaphorical symbolism for a moment and look at what is actually happening right here on earth to other people we might have sat next to at a festival years ago and never know it. Imagine that you were Abi's dad. How would you feel? I believe that heaven on earth won't happen until human beings can feel for each other's experience and empathize. I am just trying to do my part in that respect. When I compare having my own experience of the techniques to having compassion on someone like Abi, there is no contest as to which feels better...having empathy for Abi makes me feel much more human than does turning a deaf ear to her and 'going within'...sometimes ya gotta go 'out' too and take care of business. It si also said that Heaven is also when the 'in' and the 'out' become one.

Sandy

PS In answer to your thing about talking about this on national TV, yes, CW, that's exactly where matters like this get aired out when they have been covered up for 20+ years and the stonewalling is still going on. You walked right into that one.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 15:19:29 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: Bullshit, CW
Message:
CW said:

''...Put it this way,do people generally sort out such problems on National Television? Only on Judge Judy! I think Abi should be patient. Trust her father. Wait for a response. Then treat it as confidential.But then again , I'm professionally biased. My training tells me that the public arena rarely assists the victim - there is always some-one hanging off them looking to fulfill their own agenda. Often ambulance chasing lawyers....''

Cynthia replies:

That is an ignorant statement. Only on Judge Judy! How demeaning to Abi, Susan and the rest. How long must they wait CW? Like, until J**deo dies? Until maharaji feels like feeling good about this issue (which he never will)? When's that gonna be?

And if Abi keeps quiet, is ''patient'' NOTHING WILL HAPPEN, trust me on that one. Maharaji is not exactly running to the table on this, nor are his attorneys. Not a priority for EV. That's unconscionable.

He's a coward and so are the people around him who refuse to behave morally on their own behalf. Fuck the Amaroo program, or whatever it is they're doing down there.

And recovering from cancer is no excuse for taking NO action. It's simply not. Cowards, all. Self-serving cowards.

No excuses!

Cynthia

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 15:26:18 (GMT)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: Cynthia and Brian
Subject: Well Said! Cynthia and Brian nt
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 14:16:18 (GMT)
From: Brian
Email: brian@ex-premie.org
To: CW
Subject: Nonsense, Cat
Message:
First, thanks for your correction of the correct Cathy. I posted above before reading the entire thread.

But you say that Abi should wait for a response and then treat it as confidential? Okay. How long should she wait considering that this didn't happen in the last year and Rawat was fully aware long before now that there were these sorts of allegations about Jagdeo surfacing?

His 'response' then was to do nothing to prevent further abuse. His 'response' since then has been the same. Should that be kept confidential?

You seem to feel that any abuse that occurred happened to ex-premies who have a personal agenda or axe to grind with Rawat. Does it bother you at all that Jagdeo wasn't abusing ex-premies? He was (and probably still is) abusing the children of premies - children just like yours and those who just recently gathered at Amaroo. They are the children of people who take it on faith that while they are giving their time away to serve Maharaji's personal interests, their children are not being looked after by a person accused of being a paedophile.

The purpose of the public arena - and Network Television News, for that matter - isn't to serve the emotional needs of victims of crimes, but to prevent criminals from continuing to create MORE victims by moving (or being sent) beyond the limits of the community or household most recently damaged.

But then that's just my 'un-professional bias'.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 10:22:31 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: Since when did you get in the loop?
Message:
How do you know what happened, Cat? Is the cult going to vountarily compensate Abi? They ought to. How about writing her a check for $1,000,000, in those US dollars the cult is so fond of?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 10:14:45 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: CW and abi
Subject: Jagdeo 'not a priority' for EV
Message:
jagdeo was a university professor who spoke 9 indian languages fluently.
rajeswar was the judge.

oh, poor cathy. she didnt want maharaji to 'feel bad',oh boo-fuckin -hoo.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 10:59:10 (GMT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Jagdeo 'not a priority' for EV
Message:
Janet,
thanks for that. He's most certainly a Brahmin.
abi
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Apr 05, 2001 at 12:29:54 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Jagdeo, as well as being a Brahmin is
Message:
a reincarnation of a past perfect master.

Well anyway this is what he(jagdeo) told my ex-wife (who is also an ex toe-licker).

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 23:26:33 (GMT)
From: jumbler
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: new old premie
Message:
how the fuck does one begin to become involved in this?
what am i doing wrong?
all my attempts to access this place disappear
getting knowledge was a piece of cake compared to this!
if i get in i want to explore this feeling istill have
which is
i was conned by him

but i went along with it to some extent

was i alone in seeming blissed out
when i was really full of doubt
or is it uncool to admit culpability?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 10:46:02 (GMT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: jumbler
Subject: new old premie
Message:
This place is big and mysterious. Many many ancient ones walk around breathing fire pissed off with haramaharjigugu New-old-one should look in Journies to read who are the pissed off ones. Also go into the belly of M.J.Khan, he has plenty of places to see.

Salam: an exware

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 03:35:49 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: jumbler
Subject: new old premie
Message:
You weren't alone in feeling blissed out. Alot of us felt it too. And it was fun sometimes to feel that way, in my opinion. There were good times and good memories of being a premie. The people I hung out with then--many of them were great people. But at what cost bliss? I lost my sense of self, my self-respect, my health and felt estranged from my family.

I realize now that alot of that bliss was a conditioned experience. I learned alot reading the forum and interacting with folks here. The forum administrators here can help you if you need technical help with the forum, and if you read the journeys on this site, you'll find you're not by any means alone, in feeling jumbled.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 02:49:23 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: jumbler
Subject: you made a better entrance than I did
Message:
You asked: ''how the fuck does one begin to become involved in this?''

Just start talking to somebody. Look at the posts and answer those that interest you.

You asked: ''what am i doing wrong? all my attempts to access this place disappear getting knowledge was a piece of cake compared to this!''

Perhaps you are not clicking on the ''Check this box to skip preview'' thingy below the box that you type the message into.

You asked: ''if i get in i want to explore this feeling i still have which is i was conned by him but i went along with it to some extent''

That's what most of us like to talk about.

You asked: ''was i alone in seeming blissed out when i was really full of doubt or is it uncool to admit culpability?''

No, plenty of us got blissed out but now know that Rev Rawat only triggered that off in us and that it is ours not his. And many of the people here seem to have harbored doubts, as I did, right from the beginning even as we were getting blissed out.

And it's not uncool to admit culpabilty. At least not for me. I was ignorant and uneducated about the business of guruism and yoga. Now i know better.

Welcome, Jumbler.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Apr 05, 2001 at 00:24:40 (GMT)
From: Katie Darling
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: you made a better entrance than I did
Message:
Just wanted to piggy-back on Pat's response to your question:

''was i alone in seeming blissed out when i was really full of doubt or is it uncool to admit culpability?''

I bet if you did a poll of people here, nearly everyone would admit to the same 'culpability' - as you call it. I'd rather call it confusion than culpability. I think it is quite confusing to have expansive experiences and think they are coming from someone who is - to put it mildly - out of integrity. It takes quite a lot of maturity to really be able to distinguish between the bliss and the doubts and make choices that include everything. It took us how ever long it took us and now we're here. Yay for us!

Congratulations on graduating, and welcome here. Look forward to hearing more from you.

love Katie Darling

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 00:38:36 (GMT)
From: Connie
Email: None
To: jumbler
Subject: new old premie
Message:
Hi jumbler and welcome

If you go through the archives, you will see that the feelings of 'bliss' most acknowledge they experienced have been discussed.

I have thought about my part in it, you use the word culpability. I think it goes hand in hand with a naive gullability, or simply just a need to believe.

I'm not too sure I get what you mean by 'what am I doing wrong?'

Sometimes it seems there are no easy answers, it takes time to sort it out.

Have you posted here before?

When did you receive k?

Thanks for your post, look forward to hearing more from you.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 00:20:29 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: jumbler
Subject: all the feelings were true.
Message:
its the facts that are changing the picture.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 15:37:49 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Parlokananand
Message:
Wasn't this a mahatma who did something and was sent back to India? Anyone know the story?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 17:27:59 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: Parlokananand
Message:
Susan,

This is what I recall.

Parlokanand was touring a lot in the USA and Canada in 1973 and 1974. He always seemed to be a very popular Mahatma, from what I can tell. In my early years as a premie in the Midwest, lots of premies I knew received knowledge from Parlokanand, because he toured a lot there, to the point I recall that a room in the Chicago ashram, used to be referred to as 'Parlokanand's room.'

Anyhow, I think shortly after that, maybe in 1975 or so, it was discovered (I don't know by whom), that Parlokanand was sexually molesting children. This was widely known among premies at the time.

The story was that after it was discovered, Maharaji defrocked him. There was a 'satsang story' going around, that Maharaji, himself, being 'all-knowing,' saw what was going on, using the eyes of a fly on the wall to see it himself. [This was the story, at least, which is, of course, bullshit.]

In 1975, I was living in San Antonio at COLL and Parlokanand was sent there as a kind of punishment. He was not allowed to give satsang, and he worked at the premie car wash. A few other Mahatmas, and at least one Bai, were sent there as well, I'm not sure why. Parlokanand just work work clothes and was a slave like everyone else, although I recall there were a few premies who kind of worshipped him, as a 'high' person, but this was discouraged, since it was M's 'agya' that Parlokanand was to be treated like an ordinary ashram premie, and had no Mahatma powers.

[One of the Bais who was sent to COLL, (I can't remember her name, she was youngish and kind of cute)), used to give satsang at COLL about what a bitch Mata Ji was and that she had to travel with her and be a virtual servant, and that Mata Ji delighted in torturing her. The rumor was that M sent her to San Antonio, to protect her from Mata Ji, and whoever else was 'after' her. Again, I don't remember the details.

But Parlokanand was definitely a pedophile, although I don't think he ever went to the extremes Jagdeo did, with 'children satsang' and the like. Also, for some reason, I recall that the rumor was Parlokanand preferred little boys to little girls, which seemed to be the victims Jagdeo went after.

A few years ago, OP said that Parlokanand was living in South America.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 20:57:34 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Great - I received K from a pedophile
Message:
Well, Joe, this is the proverbial cherry on the pile of dog crap, I tell yew. The flies are buzzin' all over this one. The buzzards however, prefer real carrion so they are nowhere to be seen.

Good thing that the techniques are older than dirt, and that what you are getting through the techniques doesn't have anything to to with M or the techniques themselves, anyway. The techniques are one of a billion vehicles. Being here is the thing -- with or without any techniques whatsoever.

Brother, I can testify!!!

Jeez.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 16:11:27 (GMT)
From: david m
Email: None
To: everyone
Subject: Parlokananand
Message:
Hi...I used to be quite close with P.. I assisted him in many K sessions..I drove with him fm Detroit Cleveland...Chicago..Grand Rapids ..Atlanta ...Washington DC..I had many long talks with him..This side i really never saw except for one premie His name was Jamie.. and P. really seemed to like him I remember thinking at the time that it seemed kind of weird..But wrote it off to the Divine World...I remember when he left i could never get a straight answer.. now i get it!!!!!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 21:47:59 (GMT)
From: Katie H
Email: None
To: david m
Subject: Hi David (sort of OT)
Message:
Do you know where this guy Jamie came from - was he a sort of big guy with blondish hair? Just wondering.

BTW, sorry for never answering your e-mail - I just realized that it got lost in my in-box. It's almost spring here, so glad we're not in Cleveland anymore (it's been cold enough here this winter).

Love,
Katie

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Apr 05, 2001 at 14:29:27 (GMT)
From: david m
Email: None
To: Katie H
Subject: Hi David (sort of OT)
Message:
Hey Katie...Jamie Kobran he was fm Detroit he had blonde hair was arround fm 71-72 he lived in miami in the mid 70's I went to high school with him we had about 20 premies fm our school..He use to travel with Mahatma P too...Glad your doing ok...Im really glad to hear it..talk to you soon...Peace..David m
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 21:39:46 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: What about who Baptised you, girlfriend?
Message:
Don't you just cringe?

Marianne

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 21:56:10 (GMT)
From: Katie H.
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: What about who Baptised you - oh my god
Message:
Marianne, you just reminded me of something that happened to a friend of mine. She was abused by her father at age 3 (in front of his friends - for 'fun'). When she was a teenager, she finally got up the courage to tell a priest what had happened in confession. He said that she had 'tempted' her father. She didn't say another word about it until she told my sister 15 years later. I never put two and two together until your post - although I did think the priest was an asshole.

I know that there have been remarks made here about 'tempting' Jagdeo and other mahatmas (which digust me - as if men are so weak that they cannot keep their hands off ANY girl or woman) - maybe I should consider the source now.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 23:42:05 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: sylviecyn@yahoo.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Another One! How Many More?
Message:
I'm sorry folks, but absolutely nothing surprises me anymore. I am sickened, yes, surprised, no. Thank you Susan for bringing this up.

Parlokananand, a pedophile. Never met him, glad of it.

I see a pattern here, of Maharaji, excuse me Marianne, Capt. Rawat, shoving his big dirty secrets under the urug. You see, when this topic comes up, one can't even joke about it. There are no jokes in this matter. It's dead serious and if I were an EV lawyer right now, I'd be nervous. As should Capt. Rawat.

He likes boys....Hmmmmm. Boys who are sexually abused have a much more difficult time than girls do in ''telling.'' As adults survivors, men have a different stigma to overcome, so it's a very sensitive topic. It's difficult for adult female survivors, but there are cultural differences in the acceptance of telling about childhood abuse.

It's also important not to ''qualify'' such abuse by saying he didn't have 'children satsangs', etc., because it's just a different MO. Simply put. Sexual abuse is sexual abuse. The only qualifiers are written laws which define these things.

I wonder if there are any men, or young men, out there who may be lurking, or even posting, who are suffering because of what was done to them by this freak. I would hope they know that they have our full support should they want to contact someone here whom they trust. And most of all, please know that It was not your fault!

How many more cover-ups for pedophiles lie in Maharaji's history here in the western world, and beyond. Shame on Maharaji, Shame on him for not protecting children in order to protect himself! It's tantamount to a coward holding a child up to protect themselves from a gunshot. Ever read Stephen King's The Dead Zone or see the movie? Only a shameless coward protects themselves above innocent children.

Phew!
Love,
Cynthia, sending good thoughts to all abused kids, everywhere.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 00:15:16 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: let's recap, to be thorough: to date we have:
Message:
Mahatma Gurucharnanad
...who had sex with sisters he liked and counseled abortion on other sisters who venerated him
Mahatma Jagdeo
...who sexually preyed on little girls in UnitySchool
Mahatma Fakiranand
...who attempted murder upon Patrick Halley
Mahatma Padharthanand
...who was a racist
Mahatma Tedjeswaranad
...who seduced sisters (almost got me, too)
Mahatma Parlokanand
...who molested little boys
Mahatma Vidyanand
...who fell in love with an american sister,denounced maharaji and broke away to start his own satsang, giving knowledge, and following
Mahatma Sampuranand
...who is using the Delhi ashram as a major drug hub for traffic north to south in India
.
.
.
.
.
..
have i missed anybody?
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
'I'm just mad about saffron...
Saffron's mad about meeee...
I'm-a jes mad-a bout-a saffron..
an heee's jus mad about me...'
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 01:54:11 (GMT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: let's recap, to be thorough: to date we have:
Message:
Padarthanand also sexually abused women.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Apr 05, 2001 at 16:17:17 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Yuck! Padarthanand was MY K initiator! n/t
Message:
nty
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 05:04:13 (GMT)
From: Mercedes
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: let's recap, to be thorough: to date we have:
Message:
I sure second that Abi.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 05:50:33 (GMT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: Mercedes
Subject: let's recap, to be thorough: to date we have:
Message:
Dear Mercedes,

I just thought I'd let you know that he's abused a number of women.

It will all come out eventually.

Take care

Abi

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 15:06:32 (GMT)
From: Archie McDonald
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Response to Marianne`s questions
Message:
Marianne and everyone.

I live in Bournemouth in England. I was born in Trinidad in the West Indies of Scottish parents and that is where I spent my early life. I got knowledge in London in 73 just before Guru Puja Festival. ( I remember a press report at the time saying that the meeting at Alexander Palace looked like a Nazi rally with a flower power/eastern cult overlay with people worshiping a young fat Hitler in eastern garb on the stage.) I didn`t pay any of that any attention at the time having just received K and the whole God thing as well: M was the Lord of the Universe, Bhole ji was Shiva, Balbagawan ji and Raja ji were some sort of divinities that I can`t remember and later on somebody told me that Bob Mishler(bless him) was Krishna`s horse in a previous life. (Remembering all this is almost embarassing)

After receiving K I was in and out of various Ashrams until 81. Never seemed to be able to stick the Ashram for too long for some reason. I used to beat myself up a bit about this.

The highlight of my 'career' in DLM was when I was invited to become part of Merrion Security which was responsible for M`s security in UK and Europe complete with semi militaristic training, silly gestapo type looking black uniforms bought from costume shop ect. Did security around M`s 707 and Reigate Residence but never had any dealings with M and hardly ever saw him. I left the Res/plane security thing in 81/82 can`t remember exactly, because I was fed up with the whole security thing and bored endlessly patrolling an empty property at night. (Out of sheer boredom I used to run around the grounds of M`s Reigate Res at 2 oclock in the morning trying to catch rabbits and in the morning when the day security chap came and opened the door to the security hut these 5 or 6 rabbits would hop out much to his consternation. I used to capture the rabbits, take them back to the hut and feed them until morning.) I was pretty bored.

After leaving Ashram setup with no money and temporary semi homeless. I went to work on oil rigs off Scotland and worked my way up and have been successful in my work up to today. I work in engineering now it IT.

Since leaving Ashram I have been involved with M and K at a community level to a greater or lesser degree until recently.

Of the many issues and allegations raised on the forum, I suppose the ones by the two Mikes(Dettmers and Donner)have informed me the most, I suppose by reason of their long close proximity to M. Saying that all the comments here have been a great help to me in forming my picture. I suppose Jim Sander`s comments best summarise my feelings.

I am starting to feel alot more anger now at allowing myself to be so misled by myself, M and EV/DLM.

I feel we are all sincere seekers of truth to want to have been involved in this in the first place but we were sadly mistaken, premies and ex premies alike. I am sure we will continue to seek after the truth in our own ways which is as it should be and I personally feel alot more free to do that, spritually or whatever.

Anyway, got to go as my boss has just walked in the office.

Cheers

Archie

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 00:21:28 (GMT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: Archie McDonald
Subject: Nazi Rally at Ally Pally
Message:
That was a very disturbing event for me : the 1st time I'd seen rawat at a big do in a western setting .

I didn't like it at all , but as you say it was the God thing , our's not to reason why etc .

I happened to be near a backstage entrance , when up pitched 2 well dressed 'county' type ladies , obviously mother & daughter.

They wanted to speak to their son/brother who was behind the scenes somewhere , about some urgent family crisis .

Although they persisted eloquently , insistently , & politely for quite a long time before giving up , the blissful goon on the door just totally refused to do anything to help them .

I heard later that some guy had turned over his inheritence to fatso , & guessed that maybe what I'd witnessed was to do with that .

It left a bad taste in my mouth , but hey , lila right .

I'm coming to the conclusion that this 'know thyself' stuff is overrated .

I'm not sure that I want to know what I might be capable of given the circumstances .

Whatever 'truth ' may be , if it disregards the dark side of the moon , then it ain't true .

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 03:24:30 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Bin Liner
Subject: Brilliant post, Bin! n/t
Message:
n/t
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 21:51:17 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Archie McDonald
Subject: ahh-so you were a black Rawatwhiler, eh??
Message:
sorry- bad joke, stolen from Richard Rogers' original a few days agao.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 21:32:18 (GMT)
From: Bazza
Email: bshaw8@bellsouth.net
To: Archie McDonald
Subject: Archie, didn't we used to share a bed?
Message:
Thought that would get your attention!

Weren't you up in Chigwell with Kevin, Matt and the boys looking after the Lear? The night shift had to give up their beds to me and another guy who were working days doing the Merrion CCTV stuff.

Still got my badge, look:- http://www.geocities.com/agforumdata/merrionbadge.jpg

Hey email me, we do know each other. I'm still in touch with other members of the old crew but don't want to talk publically about it just yet.

bazza
aka Barry Shaw

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 19:37:45 (GMT)
From: kev
Email: None
To: Archie McDonald
Subject: Hello Archie, I may know you
Message:
Hello Archie,

Its nice to see someone from my neck of the woods. I live in Portsmouth and used to go to Southampton prog's and sometimes Bournemouth ones so I may know your face. I'm sure we must know a lot of the same people. I came to my senses just before Christmas. Leaving was the best Christmas present I ever gave myself.

I like you felt very angry at letting myself get caught up in such lies and bullshit but for me that anger has gone and been replaced with joy and happyness that I now have my own life to led free of M.

I do not post as much as I would like to, meanly due to lack of time but I do try to read as much as possible each night. Just reading the forum has been a great help to me I hope it helps you as much.

Take care Archie,

Best Wishes Kev.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 18:51:30 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: delores@gofree.indigo.ie
To: Archie McDonald
Subject: Thanks for that, Archie
Message:
Thank you so much for responding. I never heard that Bob Mishler had been Krishna's horse in a prior life. That's a new one. Can you believe we accepted that crap?!

Your story about doing meaningless security tasks has a familiar ring to it. Have you read Sir Dave's story about The Big Cheese? I think it is on drek's site, as part of the early Best of Forum series. If you haven't read it, you should as I think you will relate to it. It is also one of the funniest things I have ever read on the forum.

You explained to us that the confirmations of the two Mikes helped you to finally make the decision to leave the cult. Were you on the fence about it before they began to post? If so, could you tell us why?

The reason I ask is that I think it might help other lurking former PAMS to post if they understood what a difference they could make if they added their voices to the chorus.

Finally, I see you are a friend of Jethro's (the former Eddie Fisher). Any friend of Jethro's is a friend I would like to have also.

Keep posting. We'll be reading.

Warm regards, Marianne

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 18:30:37 (GMT)
From: DeProGram Anand Ji
Email: aka James Flynn
To: Archie McDonald
Subject: Welcome aboard Archie! NT
Message:
nt.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 17:34:27 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Archie McDonald
Subject: Thanks for introducing yourself so friendly
Message:
I would probably recognise your face from Palace of Peace days. I am looking forward to any insights that you wish to share on your newound freedom from Rev Rawat's World of Silliness and Fibs.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 17:23:21 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Archie McDonald
Subject: Cheers to you Archie
Message:
Thanks for posting your story. Everyone's stories seem to help me fill in little pieces of my own. Ally Pally was my first major festival also.

Francesca

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 22:12:44 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: ally pally was my first festival too--
Message:
also my first darshan, up close and personal. I didn't know it till we took off from JFK in new york, but rajai, mataji and goomeraji were on the same plane in first class. rajai ran around the aisles with big Billy somebodyorother during the flight. he spoke to me once. when the plane landed I realized i hadn't the faintest idea what we were to do, but i had to get out of the plane. so i drifted up the aisle for the door and locked eyes with maharaji just as i reached the opening. he was standing in his seat watching the premies debark.
once in the tunnel, i dropped out of the stream and just hung out against the wall to wait for him. i figured he knew what was up and where to go, so I'd just follow him thru the airport and I'd probably end up where everybody else was.
by the time he emerged, the tunnel was empty but for me, him and the two yappy honchos with him. rajai and mataji had already gone by me into the building. so i stood there, waiting. as he came up, to me he glanced my way, and i swear to you, before i could think to take a step, my own feet yanked me away from the wall and locked me in pace, right behind his short little shoulders. i remember vividly. his suit fabric was tobacco brown, immaculate and a loose weave. it felt like he had me in a tractor beam i could not break out of. everythng in existence seemed to pivot about him. the rest of the world was jabbering away in the distance about meaningless things, but he moved at the center of an impreturbable peace that seemed to take in everything, out to the horizon, indeed, out to the sky. and I was somehow inside that bubble with him. i remember being amazed, that the two honchos didn't seem to be aware of it at all, the way they were yammering away in their own world. he kept me with him, like that, all the way along the concourse, the moving beltwalk, thru customs, and down the escalator to baggage claim. he waited and collected all the straggling last few premies, and made sure we all came with him down to the final area, where hundreds of premies were massed and singing in the doorways of the taxi pickup, greeting the overseas flights and loading us all onto buses to go to cuffley campsite. Maharaji got into a rolls royce with his mother and brother and they disappeared into the mists down the road.
short of hugging him, ( or falling on top of him, which i nearly did, at one point on the beltwalk, when i began to swoon and lost my balance)I couldn't possibly have been any closer to him, for a first encounter, in person.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 17:48:40 (GMT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: Thanks for your story Archie /nt
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 16:32:53 (GMT)
From: a0aji
Email: and_on_anand@yahoo.com
To: Archie McDonald
Subject: truth
Message:
I don't think there is any truth. I think everyone has their own viewpoint, even on the big things. I don't think consciousness is all that special, and I don't think there is anything like god in the world. I think the world around us is impressive enough, just as we experience it! It's bigger than we are. It will be here, when we are gone.

-a0aji

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 16:27:44 (GMT)
From: wolfi
Email: wolfgang.oed@stadt.erlangen.de
To: Archie McDonald
Subject: commitment
Message:
Hi Archie,

I got knowledge after Guru Puja 73, same story somehow, same time,a very long long time. Today my commitment is: I want to be free, free from stupidity, I don't want to be ignorant, it really feels good for me to free my spirit from all that chains we created all those funny bunny years. I can talk much more open with people since I have allowed myself to criticise M. I'm really not responsible what people think about him. I'm interested what he's gonna do next, or is he so completly attached into strange affairs, so he can not make a move to be honest.
After all that years I feel sorry for him, but things get much more real through this feeling than through all this looking up to him and pretenting he is a superior person. Okay when this is the result. Great job Maharaji. Thanks for that lesson, for sure I will not forget the rest of my life, how bitter sweet this story was.

On this website it goes on and on, but sometimes it kills me to read so much and in the end of the day I'm completly dizzy. Wonder how this website yogis und yoginis can handle this. There is a great potiential to get addicted to what happens next.

ciao wolfie.....

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 17:17:50 (GMT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: wolfi
Subject: commitment
Message:
It is a deeply flawed system, wolfi. Anyone who keeps up with all of it is deeply disturbed. :)

There really is a basic problem with it. On a normal system, you can mark all messages in a given topic as already seen, when in fact you hadn't read any of them. This saves a lot of time.

There are several other deep design flaws in the conferencing model we use here. Suffice it to say, there are much better commercial servers available, but they come at a price. I think its fair to say we have an unusually strong need on EPO to document all forum conversations to permanent storage; this is an unusual design requirement, and goes against the standard computer conferencing model available in our price range.

I'm speaking only for myself when I say these things, however many we's I used. :)

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 16:12:02 (GMT)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: Archie McDonald
Subject: How on earth did you catch them?
Message:
Hi Archie,
I don't want to demean the rest of your post, but I'm intrigued. How on earth did you catch the rabbits? Were you a very fast runner? were they particularly slow rabbits? Did you have some secret technique? Or were they just such blissed out bunnies, they'd have fallen for any simple trap?
Thank you for your interesting post, and congratulations on seeing through the whole sorry sham. Welcome to the real world!
Kelly
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 09:41:05 (GMT)
From: Archie McDonald
Email: None
To: Kelly
Subject: How on earth did you catch them?
Message:
I used to lurk in the bushes in ambush and wait till one hopped by. The things you do when you`re bored out of your skull.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 14:31:49 (GMT)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: Archie McDonald
Subject: Thanks Archie,now I can sleep at night! nt
Message:
slow rabbits!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 17:46:42 (GMT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Kelly
Subject: Just lie still and pretend you're a carrot. /nt
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 15:32:26 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Archie McDonald
Subject: Maybe the rabbits granted you a boon!
Message:
Archie,

Maybe it was letting the rabbits go, maybe not, but you're one of the lucky ones, Archie. Believe it or not, you could have spent your whole life stuck in this dumb-ass cargo cult, instead of just one fucking hell of a long time. There IS a difference. Congratulations.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 16:35:37 (GMT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Maybe the rabbits granted you a boon!
Message:
What the hell was a cargo cult?

I'm thinking, WWII, a bunch of GI's get dumped off on a pacific island, and show the natives matches and flashlights and stuph and become their Ghod for a while.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Apr 02, 2001 at 22:02:51 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Maharaji's words -- what an idiot
Message:
How can anybody take this guy seriously? I went to that DUO website G found, which I think is directed at India, or maybe tourists to India? It isn't quite clear what the hell it is. Anyhow, here are some of Maharaji's supposedly simple and clear words from the website. The comments are mine.

Nowadays, it's amazing - everything is an issue. Should we breathe? Shouldn't we breathe? Can we cough? I mean, is it politically correct to cough? You have a cold and you're only breathing out of one of the nostrils? Is that acceptable to society? And so on. And why? The basics is, we want to be happy.

I know I am constantly reading opinion pieces and advice columns on whether we should breathe or not. It's really a hot topic these days, talked about endlessly. And breathing out of one nostril is also controversial. I'm not quite sure where I stand on that, and I really have to take my time to decide, being that it is an important issue. I mean, if you are constantly debating with yourself and others about whether to breathe, and, to make it even MORE complicated, debating over WHICH nostril to breathe out of, yes, we are really confused and can't possibly be happy. We want to just forget about breathing and nostrils and be happy. He is such a smart guy, and makes so much sense.

When we are happy, these issues don't matter. It doesn't matter - and you know this. When you are in a good mood, when you are happy, your son can walk up to you and say, ' Dad, I flunked the school,' and you can say, 'We'll talk about it later, it's okay.' Or, even, you know, you may be so happy, you might say, ' Son, I just love you, whatever you do is fine.'

Yes, I'm sure if you are happy, if your kid flunks out and becomes a bag lady, well, who cares? It's just fine. When you are really, really drunk you might feel the same way, something about which Maharaji has great experience. I mean, if you are happy, who gives a crap whether your kid or the whole world is going to hell in a handbasket? It's only when people are miserable that they care about such meaningless things. Boy, right on, once again.

And when everybody is saying, 'Issues, issues, issues', you know somebody is not happy. Because happy people get on with the business of enjoying happiness. Not talking about issues.

This is so true. Talking about issues is a sure sign that somebody is in dire misery. On the other hand, total disinterest, and cavalier uncarring about anything whatsoever, including being unconsciously oblivious to the 'issues' of personal safety and hygeine, is the true sign of happiness (as well as schizophrenia and extreme depression, I might add). Again, this is just so simple and clear.

And issues will come and issues will go, and nobody will be the wiser at the end of it and everything will change and change and change - to be the same again. And they will bring in new ideas, which will replace the old ideas. And then they'll bring the old ideas, which will replace the new ideas. And a cat, or a dog, chasing its tail all day long.

This is exactly what I said to Sister Mary Xaverita in the sixth grade when I told her there was not point in reading my history textbook. Who the hell cares? It all just comes around in a circle anyway. What is the point of learning about the past, or issues, or that stuff? 'They' will just bring in new and old ideas anyway, and you can't be happy while thinking about this stuff, so why bother?. What a waste of time. I'm sure Maharaji knows all about this, what with having completed the eighth grade and all.

And to be ready again to sing with the heart when the heart wants to sing because there is not a single person sitting in this room who hasn't done that.

I once sang with Heart, you know, that awful girl-group from the 70s, but only when I was very drunk and somebody asked me if I knew the words to 'Crazy on You.' So yes, I have done that. How did he know? Could he be 'all knowing?'

There was a time, and it doesn't matter when it was, there was a time when we all did that. (Um, well, okay....)

And it was wonderful. And tomorrow didn't exist. Today was wonderful. And always was. And it was squeezed - today was squeezed until it had nothing more to give. Everything - everything was taken out of today, of now. It's wonderful, it's wonderful to see, sometimes little babies. They just - they're awake, and they're awake and they're awake and then all of a sudden, boom, they just are asleep. (Lost me there, I am afraid.)

Well, on second though, maybe he is just so clear that I can't understand what he is saying. Yes, we squeeze everything out of today and it's sometimes just like babies. Yes, I see it now. [Note, these words were SELECTED for the website, apparently because they are clear and make sense, or at least one would presume that.]

What I am saying is (finally) - what price happiness? What do you sacrifice it for? What do you want to trade something that precious for? That is too precious. Keep it. Do whatever you have to do in this world, but don't forget that heart, don't forget that joy, don't forget that simplicity.

Let's see -- what is the price of happiness? Um, I don't know Maharaji, could it be having to be eternally grateful to somebody you have never even met? Donations of $150 per month? Flying to Australia? $800 so you can pay more to camp in the desert? How much?

Comings and goings of everything will happen. (brilliant!) Sadness and joy - like Shakespeare (Shakespeare!) said, if you're sad, wait a little while. You'll be happy. You're happy, wait a little while, you'll be sad. How true.

Was that in Julius Caesar? No, I bet it was Romeo and Juliet, right?

Everything I want should be - this should be there, that should be there, and the other should be there..... It's amazing how we, ourselves, can drive ourselves insane. We don't need anything else in this world to drive us completely out of this world.

You can say that again! God, we just drive ourselves nuts, and thanks for telling us. Thank God we have you to both tell us we're nuts and that you can cure us. Wow!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 18:46:08 (GMT)
From: DeProGram Anand Ji
Email: not given
To: everyone
Subject: Maharaji's words -- what an idiot
Message:
Never before has someone took so long, to say so much, that means so little! M is an absolute IDIOT! I believe his cognitive development came to a halt when he dropped out of school in the 8th grade. He utterly fails to be convincing! I can hardly stand to listen to him speak, he is so fucking boring! I can't even believe how fucking boring he is! zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Uh wake me up when he stops talking ok? zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 01:04:29 (GMT)
From: Joy
Email: None
To: DeProGram Anand Ji
Subject: Anything is More Interesting than M
Message:
The last time I went to see M (just for the novelty value, in Vancouver in 1991 or so) it was in a hotel and I lasted exactly five minutes of his drivel before I left and spent the rest of the program in the hotel lobby, browsing the shops, waiting for my friends to emerge. It was INFINITELY more interesting looking in the shops than listening to that insulting blither. It was his tone that got me, the absolute arrogance of it combined with the inanity of the message. Who needs it?

Joe, your comments cracked me up, I haven't laughed so hard in a long time (and especially the Maharaji/Dr. Spock comments). Now that's bliss!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 10:00:56 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: I think it is an Ex's site. A good one...nt
Message:
dfhha
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 01:24:29 (GMT)
From: Gregg
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Wow.
Message:
And some people read these words and swoon?

Swoon, for PWK's, I guess so. They, like we once upon a time, are in pre-natal bliss, where these words mean something.

Grownups are supposed to use their brains. (Oh no! You mean...MIND?!?!?)

Wow.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 00:18:06 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Please, please don't squeeze the Charmin
Message:
''And it was squeezed - today was squeezed until it had nothing more to give. Everything - everything was taken out of today, of now. It's wonderful, it's wonderful to see, sometimes little babies.''

It's one thing to squeeze days (although I'm not sure how you do that) and another thing to squeeze the Charmin - but, give me a break - squeezing babies is plain sadistic not to say messy if ''squeezed until it had nothing more to give.''

Just sick, Rev Moonbeam, sick. I know India is overpopulated but that is no excuse for squeezing everything out of babies.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Apr 02, 2001 at 22:27:33 (GMT)
From: Brian
Email: brian@ex-premie.org
To: Joe
Subject: I don't know how you do it
Message:
That stuff is so mind-numbing that I can't read what's actually being said to take it apart like you do. I start to fade out during the second sentence. The repetition takes its toll. The repetition takes it toll, Joe. It does. It really does. It's like sausage. Or moonlight. Or the holes that they used to put in the middle of records. Remember those, Joe? I get unhappy just thinking about it all...
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Apr 02, 2001 at 23:13:49 (GMT)
From: Maharaji
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: I am good at this -- I have the gift of simplicity
Message:
It's just like that simplicity isn't lacking in a baby, and the baby isn't interested in sausage, or even chromium. No, the baby just squeezes everything out of the day, today, which is all we have, right now, today, and we have to get in touch with the baby inside of us, the baby who is not interested in issues, sausages or chromium, but is a baby, and just is awake and then is asleep. Even when a baby has dropped a load in his pants, is sitting in it, and just threw up out of both nostrils, that is how we need to be in this life, and we have to be in touch with that simplicity and heart. Then we are just so grateful, and get to experience being grateful for appreciation and appreciative of gratitude, through participation and that breathe, and that heart, just like a soiled, sick baby.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Apr 02, 2001 at 23:20:31 (GMT)
From: Dr. Spock
Email: None
To: Maharaji
Subject: I am good at this -- I have the gift of simplicity
Message:
Maharaji,

I have come back from the after-life to point out that babies are not good examples of happiness, as they are often miserable. Although I have not seen babies sitting around discussing current events, the economy, or other issues, believe me, they are really freaked out and unhappy quite a bit of the time. This is not a good example for your followers to emulate. How about a Labrador Retriever? They seem pretty happy and content, and come to think of it, your followers look like them.

Dr. Spock

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 05:20:15 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Dr. Spock
Subject: M and Dr S -- you have LOLOLOLED my day n/t
Message:
n/t
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Apr 02, 2001 at 23:10:13 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Brian and Joe
Subject: You are sleepy, you are getting verrrryyyyy
Message:
Just like the Rat said:

It's wonderful, it's wonderful to see, sometimes little babies. They just - they're awake, and they're awake and they're awake and then all of a sudden, boom, they just are asleep.

Someone I love very much used to always do that in satsang in general, anyone's satsang. Went through several instructors until Mike Donner would give him K, because Mike's a cool guy and didn't slap the 'you must be so devoted you listen to every word on him.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Apr 02, 2001 at 23:25:09 (GMT)
From: gErRy
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: Mahahaha reminds me of Mr. Happy...
Message:
A friend of my called his unit 'Mr Happy.' They're both a coupla dickheads in my book. He was a drunk, too.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Apr 02, 2001 at 16:17:25 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Is this what they call spiritual masturbation?
Message:
ELK announces this morning the beginning of a new program. Nwo, thanks to modern technology, you can jump yourself into a cult on your own at home:

Discover for yourself

'Discover for yourself' is a new way to for people find about Knowledge which is to be piloted in the UK, Spain, Slovenia and Greece which will be launched in the near future. For more information, visit the UK website at 'www.elanvital.org.uk'

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Apr 02, 2001 at 22:01:09 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Origin stories: hamster -- can you tell me
Message:
where this term originated and exactly what it means in EPO speak. I know we refer to Rawfat, and the Rat. Is it because of the squeaky noises they make?

Oink.

--f

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Apr 02, 2001 at 23:58:00 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: Origin stories: hamster -- can you tell me
Message:
I made it up back in the day when it was still a bit of thrill slagging Maharaji publically like this. You know, a far cry from the days when we had to burn, not simply throw out, old leaflets with his picture and stuff. The term's just a loose, disrespectful play on 'Master', that's all. The related derotagtory connotations were a plus.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 01:52:21 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Oy, by then, unfortunately, I just threw stuff out
Message:
I was no longer following orders but I'm sure other people have the same pile of cr*p somewhere. Either that or someone will hear the call, leave the cult, and provide the missing pieces.

--tx f

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 01:45:30 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: don't you think he looks a bit like a hamster too?
Message:
Perfect Master, Perfect Hamster
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 23:13:54 (GMT)
From: moldy warp
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: Hamster with his pouches stuffed with cash nt
Message:
X
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 23:15:07 (GMT)
From: moldy warp
Email: None
To: moldy warp
Subject: going round and round on the wheel of karma nt
Message:
x
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Apr 02, 2001 at 16:47:49 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: No, it's called ''Propagation Desperation'' n/t
Message:
nn
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Apr 02, 2001 at 14:30:20 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: holy water
Message:
no mention of this in glossary, can't find anything in search.
anyone remember those little bottles?
Charinriwat (spelling?)
common in Eugene
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Apr 02, 2001 at 18:16:36 (GMT)
From: The other Joe
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Hi Joe
Message:
Great name. I was wondering, though. I've been aware from teh forum for a couple of weeks and noticed you and I are using the same 'tag.' I've posting as 'Joe' for awhile now, so maybe one or both of us should modify our 'tags' so that we aren't mixed up. What do you think?

Great to have you here. Also, love Eugene.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 11:54:01 (GMT)
From: JSK (aka Joe)
Email: None
To: The other Joe
Subject: Hi Joe
Message:
no problem, I will use my initials
JSK
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 03:47:42 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: JSK (aka Joe)
Subject: Thanks (nt)
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Apr 02, 2001 at 15:25:34 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Get it from Shri Nangli Sahib. Volunteer?
Message:
they have an online order sytem for all these items, no joke !!

The question is: is it as good as Rawat's ??????

Anybody tried ? Who's going to volunteer?

Order Charnamrit online !

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 13:23:03 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Shri Gargoyle Ji toe bath water, a holy bargain nt
Message:
dgfdd
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Apr 02, 2001 at 14:40:33 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: charnamit (?)
Message:
ah yes, I recall it well.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 00:50:43 (GMT)
From: Connie
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: charnamit (?)
Message:
I still have some in a little bottle given to me a few years ago, as well, a plastic bag with 'prasad', and a bottle of coloured water from Holi. Came from India, given to me in the west by an Instructor.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 02:55:25 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Connie
Subject: Is that prasad non-biodegradable or
Message:
is it canned or frozen?

Reminds a bit of catholics' holy relics. I once was given a piece of the Blessed Marcellin Champagnat. It was a bit of his finger enclosed in a locket. He was the founder of the order to which I belonged and was beatified - a semi-saint. That was the big drip for me to get out of that scam.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Apr 02, 2001 at 16:56:32 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: charnamit, from charan + amrit
Message:
From a 'spiritual dictionary' by slaves of some guy titled 'Dadaji' (source: http://users.aimnet.com/~amidaprs/ttwglossary.html#Glossary):

Amrit - A fragrant honey-like Nectar.
A reminder of Truth, it appears at far-distant
places and has the Aroma of Dadaji.

Charan-Amrit - Sweetly fragrant, honey-like Nectar,
known to manifest anywhere in the world as Dadaji's
reminder of Supreme Truth.

Charanjal - Lit. Charan means feet, Jal means water.
Originally water with which Lord Narayan has been bathed,
denigrated into the water supposedly sanctified by the
touch of a holy person's feet. Water which by Dadaji's
touch, directly or indirectly, becomes transformed into
milky, deliciously perfumed liquid; known for miraculous
healing powers and the transformation of Consciousness
it brings about gradually. Related to the flow of
Integral Consciousness or Ganga.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Apr 02, 2001 at 16:50:08 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: Or was it ''Charanmrit'' ??? n/t
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 01:47:12 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: G's got it--'CharanAmrit', or charnamrit
Message:
it's misspelled in every line posted above. how odd.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index