Richard -:- The appeal of M as 'bad boy' -:- Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 18:04:24 (GMT)

__ Joy -:- Excellent Post, Richard -:- Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 02:05:40 (GMT)

__ __ bill -:- Excellent Post, Richard....nt -:- Sun, Apr 29, 2001 at 20:17:30 (GMT)

__ __ PatC -:- Smoking ciggies during satsang -:- Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 02:46:08 (GMT)

__ El Santo -:- The appeal of M as 'bad boy' -:- Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 20:42:44 (GMT)

__ __ cq -:- you imply that you understand his 'game'? -:- Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 15:25:48 (GMT)

__ __ __ El Santo -:- you imply that you understand his 'game'? -:- Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 18:25:23 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ cq -:- El Santo, this is for you - -:- Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 19:02:19 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Richard -:- Your comments underscore my point -:- Sun, Apr 29, 2001 at 01:35:47 (GMT)

__ Susan -:- No I need to clarify something -:- Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 20:02:06 (GMT)

__ PatC -:- You just hit the nail right on the head -:- Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 18:14:35 (GMT)

__ __ Bob -:- almost -:- Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 18:24:36 (GMT)

__ __ __ PatC -:- Indians only like DEAD badboys avatars -:- Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 18:29:51 (GMT)

F arti. -:- They sang arti tonight at Amaroo. -:- Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 13:27:01 (GMT)

__ Jean-Michel -:- Link to Arti + Lotus Feet on EPO -:- Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 07:24:51 (GMT)

__ __ PatC -:- Thanks, J-M. I was looking for Twameva -:- Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 08:09:15 (GMT)

__ __ __ Jerry -:- Thanks, J-M. I was looking for Twameva -:- Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 15:17:58 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ PatC -:- Jerry, you mean you CURRENTLY sit next to a premie -:- Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 19:12:25 (GMT)

__ bill-for all that money, -:- you get the lord of the universe fraud...nt -:- Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 22:21:23 (GMT)

__ Mr. Mind -:- There are very few new premies-nt -:- Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 21:20:37 (GMT)

__ PatC -:- Where are the words to Part Two of arti? -:- Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 18:20:45 (GMT)

__ __ Babs -:- Only because I love you SO much, -:- Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 03:27:14 (GMT)

__ __ __ PatC -:- Holy Cow, Babs! Thank you so much. -:- Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 04:28:50 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Babs -:- You asked for it -:- Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 04:53:24 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Masturbating while thinking about The Shrub. -:- Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 08:17:31 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Richard -:- You asked for it -:- Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 05:08:20 (GMT)

__ __ G -:- the words -:- Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 19:40:00 (GMT)

__ __ __ Babs -:- Hindi Arti -:- Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 02:12:12 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Richard -:- Postie don't play dat! - but I'll look... -:- Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 15:40:55 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Francesca -:- I'm scareda that! -:- Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 04:20:43 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ janet -:- i always thought we shoulda gone head 2 head.. -:- Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 10:21:10 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ salam -:- I thought PatC the intelligent will know:)......nt -:- Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 02:32:06 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Babs -:- I know Pat is intelligent but -:- Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 04:57:04 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ salam -:- This is becoming too philosophical -:- Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 14:42:33 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- I'm old, Salam. I forgot. NT -:- Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 02:47:56 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ salam -:- I thought memory comes with intelligence -:- Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 03:58:31 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- I am honored you old curmudgeon you NT -:- Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 04:30:38 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ salam -:- curmudgeon?....nt -:- Sun, Apr 29, 2001 at 06:16:52 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- curmudgeon? It's a grumpy old Maggill NT -:- Sun, Apr 29, 2001 at 08:37:18 (GMT)

__ Sir Dave -:- They sang arti tonight at Amaroo. -:- Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 16:43:40 (GMT)

__ JHB -:- The Press will love this! -:- Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 16:08:26 (GMT)

__ __ Francesca -:- Was the press allowed in Amarscroo? -:- Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 18:00:29 (GMT)

__ __ __ JHB -:- No, but they're allowed in here -:- Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 21:26:25 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Francesca -:- And you just reminded me that the premies that ... -:- Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 22:22:34 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ F arti. -:- STRICTLY NO PRESS ALLOWED -:- Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 22:19:35 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Francesca -:- MiniDisc recorders and stealth mikes -:- Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 22:31:09 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ bill-hell, we can use old -:- darshan/arti footage to show press folks.....nt -:- Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 23:09:26 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ F arti. -:- How about hiding one of those mikes up -:- Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 22:41:59 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- How about hiding one of those mikes up -:- Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 14:16:43 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ F arti -:- Hey Cq.I have done one of those pages on Geocities -:- Sun, Apr 29, 2001 at 08:44:58 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- problem with Sir Dave's site for a while now ... -:- Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 19:10:56 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- It's geocities, Chris - don't allow direct links -:- Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 21:41:27 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Francesca -:- Go to the main forum page -:- Sun, Apr 29, 2001 at 17:07:08 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ janet -:- the net is global:look up the brisbane press -:- Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 10:29:38 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ janet -:- the brisbane press -:- Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 11:12:02 (GMT)

Alice Bogacki -:- Premie guru enlightened swami and everything else -:- Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 08:48:38 (GMT)

__ JHB -:- Just Another Hit and Run -:- Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 23:33:23 (GMT)

__ Francesca -:- Who are you and what the hey are you talking about -:- Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 18:46:10 (GMT)

__ Nigel -:- I'm having FUN! What's your excuse? (nt) -:- Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 16:19:47 (GMT)

__ Selene -:- Alice chill out -:- Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 00:56:33 (GMT)

__ __ salam -:- because if you did -:- Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 14:45:45 (GMT)

__ __ __ Selene -:- of course, no one has EVER picked on me here -:- Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 18:08:24 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ JHB -:- *** Great Website, Selene! *** -:- Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 21:38:16 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- thanks JHB hope it makes up for my post above -:- Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 21:50:27 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ salam -:- Fuck, a U-cluster -:- Sun, Apr 29, 2001 at 05:46:26 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- Fuck, a U-cluster? no that is not what I do (ot) -:- Sun, Apr 29, 2001 at 21:50:49 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ salam -:- me again....ot ot way ot. -:- Sun, Apr 29, 2001 at 06:40:58 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- salam what are you talking about?? ot very ot -:- Sun, Apr 29, 2001 at 21:24:12 (GMT)

__ bill--alice just does not -:- understand. There IS a need for EPO and forum..nt -:- Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 23:16:38 (GMT)

__ __ Jim -:- Bill, this 'nt' thing of your is irritating -:- Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 01:03:38 (GMT)

__ __ __ bill--ok but those -:- would have been 3 seperate posts anyway...nt -:- Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 03:34:38 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ PatC -:- Enough with the koans, bill, and tell me about -:- Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 04:33:31 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Jim - how would you know? -:- You're too conditioned to recall anything else (nt -:- Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 03:42:10 (GMT)

__ __ bill--haha, guess this is -:- a sample of her 'expanded self awareness'..nt -:- Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 23:30:29 (GMT)

__ __ __ bill-on her website she -:- says 'who is alice power'! guru mahalice ji..nt -:- Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 23:36:27 (GMT)

__ suchabanana -:- Actually, God enlightened me when I was a child... -:- Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 20:12:31 (GMT)

__ __ Francesca -:- seeing light as a child -:- Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 20:51:54 (GMT)

__ __ __ Cynthia -:- seeing light as a child...Francesca, me too... -:- Sun, Apr 29, 2001 at 16:28:35 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ such -:- Exactly!!!! Peace and lentils [love] (nt -:- Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 00:41:11 (GMT)

__ __ __ Bin Liner -:- seeing light as a child -:- Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 00:10:45 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ such -:- enjoyed -- Good on you, Bin! (nt -:- Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 02:48:01 (GMT)

__ __ Steve Quint -:- Please Don't Get Too Dahl Now nt -:- Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 20:14:07 (GMT)

__ Way -:- Premie guru enlightened swami and everything else -:- Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 15:41:03 (GMT)

__ salam -:- Alice me dear -:- Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 13:58:32 (GMT)

__ Sir Dave -:- This was inevitable -:- Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 11:19:20 (GMT)

__ Mr. Mind -:- Yep, Ms. Power took the best of rawat and..... -:- Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 10:06:46 (GMT)

__ __ bill -:- what does she do for a job?..nt -:- Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 23:18:22 (GMT)

__ __ __ Mr. Mind -:- what does she do for a job?..nt -:- Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 02:23:54 (GMT)

__ Tim G -:- Why do YOU point the finger? -:- Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 09:27:04 (GMT)

__ Jean-Michel -:- I've never emailed you -:- Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 09:23:56 (GMT)

__ __ toby -:- Well I did , and i got what I wanted -:- Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 11:06:19 (GMT)

__ __ __ Lesley -:- The Instructor Trap -:- Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 22:56:03 (GMT)

PatC -:- I am grateful to Maharaji -:- Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 07:51:23 (GMT)

__ salam -:- you're becoming funny -:- Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 14:23:57 (GMT)

__ __ PatC -:- I'll be serious then - 5 phases of posting on F5 -:- Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 00:44:13 (GMT)

__ __ __ salam -:- great stuff -:- Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 01:24:28 (GMT)

__ Tim G -:- I am grateful to Pat C. (nt) -:- Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 12:08:01 (GMT)

__ __ PatC -:- Thanks Tim, I'm grateful for you guys on FV - NT -:- Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 00:30:53 (GMT)

Jim -:- It's like one, long shaggy dog story -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 19:30:08 (GMT)

__ janet -:- you know, i said this once before here.. -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 22:39:04 (GMT)

__ __ AJW -:- The Divine City -:- Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 08:30:15 (GMT)

__ __ bill -:- amaroo is too dangerous to walk off the -:- Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 01:41:39 (GMT)

__ __ Sir Dave -:- That's good analogy, Janet -:- Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 01:23:27 (GMT)

__ Tony -:- It's like one, long shaggy dog story -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 21:59:04 (GMT)

__ JHB -:- Good Point - What is the Destination? -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 21:02:05 (GMT)

__ Sir Dave -:- A substitute for real life -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 21:00:36 (GMT)

__ __ jumbler -:- pick the right target -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 23:42:12 (GMT)

__ __ __ Jim -:- Compassion for Premies -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 23:52:55 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ jumbler -:- who you looking at? -:- Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 00:46:19 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Compassion? Sure. One minute of silence -- now -:- Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 00:54:43 (GMT)

__ Bin Liner -:- The pied piper never changes his tune ... -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 20:37:03 (GMT)

__ Bob -:- Drooling on the inside! I just love this! (nt) -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 19:41:44 (GMT)

Way -:- 'unannounced' formal darshan -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 14:53:51 (GMT)

__ Sir Dave -:- This is very dangerous for the Maha -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 15:05:31 (GMT)

__ __ janet -:- NAHHHH, DAVE--LET HIM CONTRACT IT. HE DESERVES -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 22:44:05 (GMT)

__ __ Tony -:- It is a wonder he does'nt use fake feet -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 22:05:35 (GMT)

__ __ __ janet -:- fake feet--you've hit on something there! -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 23:01:47 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Tony -:- I'll go you halves in the royalties. -:- Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 07:02:59 (GMT)

__ __ such -:- ah ha, maha, kiss my... haha (nt -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 18:28:11 (GMT)

__ __ bill -:- So, 'mahaparty' means kiss my feet....(again)..nt -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 18:05:14 (GMT)

__ __ __ Way -:- Satpal also giving darshan in big program -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 20:42:49 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Helen -:- who is that guy and why is he allowed to exist -:- Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 16:30:13 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Jim -:- He's renting Amaroo (Hamsterscrew) next month (nt) -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 20:56:35 (GMT)

Ian Dury -:- 'Maha-party' in Amaroo! -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 14:53:16 (GMT)

__ Bob -:- 'Maha-party' in Amaroo! -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 18:29:00 (GMT)

__ __ Jim -:- Maharaji and world domination -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 20:34:38 (GMT)

__ __ __ Bob -:- Maharaji and world domination -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 21:41:39 (GMT)

__ Joe -:- Hey, I checked an Ian ISN'T joking! -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 15:52:26 (GMT)

__ __ suchabanana -:- No,they're making these jokes / as reaction to EPO -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 18:23:46 (GMT)

__ __ Mr. Mind -:- Positive and Negative reinforcement -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 18:02:57 (GMT)

__ __ __ bill -:- Drinking his feet water rates up there too...nt -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 18:06:31 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Mr. Mind -:- Thanks ,Bill---heebie jeebie #3...nt -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 18:36:01 (GMT)

__ __ bill--executive friend? -:- of elan vital? rats out of the bag. He IS EV...nt -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 17:55:08 (GMT)

Bob -:- memorial -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 12:20:54 (GMT)

__ AJW -:- It's not over yet Bob. -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 17:13:03 (GMT)

__ Babs -:- From my heart to yours -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 16:48:39 (GMT)

__ __ Francesca -:- Kudos to Babs and Bob, you've said a lot here -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 17:06:41 (GMT)

__ Mercedes -:- memorial -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 12:57:53 (GMT)

Jean-Michel -:- One more thing about the Fr magazine! -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 09:07:38 (GMT)

__ la-ex -:- JM-can we support the magazine by any... -:- Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 03:42:56 (GMT)

__ __ Jean-Michel -:- Why asking ME ?? (nt) -:- Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 07:07:06 (GMT)

__ E. Windsor -:- It sets a significant precident -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 11:09:25 (GMT)

F arti. -:- Amaroo sabotage. -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 23:58:10 (GMT)

Date: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 18:04:24 (GMT) From: Richard Email: None To: Everyone Subject: The appeal of M as 'bad boy' Message:

I just returned from a family wedding and reunion in Tallahassee and was intrigued once again by Susan's drawing of parallels between M and Tony Soprano. For those pitiful folk among you with no access to HBO, The Sopranos is a modern day version of mob films like The Godfather. The Sopranos is IMHO the best of what TV has to offer these days. It may seem to us that comparing M to a mob boss is demeaning but I think otherwise. In fact, I think it is very appealing to many of his current followers to have M in the same league as the Corleone family head. Here's why. When I first heard of M and received Knowledge, I had already rejected my past as too conventional - the consumer culture, military industrial complex and the hypocritical Christian religion I was raised in. I bought, dealt and ingested illegal substances, protested against the war in Vietnam and was part of the marginalized culture. So M & K was the perfect religion for an unconventional Westerner turning his back on all that was conventional. Knowledge was a slap in the face of Christianity and M was the new and improved Messiah to replace the moldy old Jesus. Anything M did that was illegal or unconventional only improved his image. After all, if I wanted legal and normal, I could get a 9 to 5 job and be a Christian. I was sooooo rebelious and M was the Maha-Rebel with a very noble cause. The end (world peace) surely justified the means (whatever HE wanted). M acquired and drove expensive, fast cars - Maserati Bora among others - whiche netted speeding tickets. He severed ties with his family (many of us could relate to that move) and married outside his caste and religion - ooooh what a bad boy - and we loved it. He railed and still rails against the status quo and conventional (logical) thinking and wisdom. Just like our favorite rock star or sports figure, he acted out our vision of the perfect anti-establishment figure. And the Walter Mitty in all of us loved it. He did what we thought we could not do. He was our James Dean, our Elvis, our Mick Jagger, the Dennis Rodman of gurus. These days, the PWK's who follow him closely can be seen smoking those Marlboros or Gitanes outside of every program like the juvenile delinquents around back of high school. I'm absolutely certain that many of the front three rows also stock his favorite Congnac for that guilty, yet M-sanctioned pleasure. Revelations about his blond ambitions are most likely fuel for the myth. Why would they want him to be 'normal' or 'conventional' in any way whatsoever? By being different, he validates their 'weirdness' and 'otherness'. Just like the fictional Tony Soprano who is attempting to legitamize his businesses, M long ago made sure he was untouchable when it came to the IRS. But the rebel image continues via his harrangues against the pathetic small lives of his devotees, the stupidity of those without knowledge and by hiding away the devotional moments thousands of miles away while raking in millions. Sooooo bad.

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Date: Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 02:05:40 (GMT) From: Joy Email: None To: Richard Subject: Excellent Post, Richard Message:

That's a very interesting take on it all. I know I was always a rebel at heart when it came to my family and society, and a renegade guru like M fit the bill perfectly, allowing me to have 'religion' and still be as unconventional as hell. I think there was always a part of me that liked to be 'different' in some way, avant-garde bohemian to the core, and M and living in the ashram certainly allowed me to express that and get out of the 9-to-5 rut that I never got into in the first place back then. Then when I left the ashram after almost 9 years, I remember my sole ambition was to be 'normal' and fit into society, I'd had enough of being wierd and on the fringes and wanted to be like everybody else for once. Don't know if I've ever achieved that ambition but at least I no longer have to justify my wierd religion or lifestyle to people, which is a relief. Hey Pat C, remember smoking ciggies with me on the steps of the ashram while satsang was going on inside? I was just in the process of pulling away from ashram living myself and smoking was my first step in that process. Little did I know M was addicted all along, I don't know what I'd have done with that information back then. P.S. Had a fabulous time visiting with you and Chuck and Joe. I hear you talked about it on the Forum, so I'll have to dive into the archives now and see what was said!

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Date: Sun, Apr 29, 2001 at 20:17:30 (GMT) From: bill Email: None To: Joy Subject: Excellent Post, Richard....nt Message:

xcgcbbnx

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Date: Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 02:46:08 (GMT) From: PatC Email: None To: Joy Subject: Smoking ciggies during satsang Message:

Of course I remember. I also remember when you came to visit me for the first time in my mushroom growing damp basement in the Haight and you were obviously sick of the cult and I didn't know what to tell you because I thought you would eventually rationalize it to yourself as I had done. It was wonderful seeing you again and let's not lose touch again.

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Date: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 20:42:44 (GMT) From: El Santo Email: None To: Richard Subject: The appeal of M as 'bad boy' Message:

Extremely well-put! What attracted me (anyway) to Rawat during the late '70's was his image of total disreputability. He was WWWF Wrestling on Channel 47, he was cheap beer with 5.7 alcohol content, he was an offset pamphlet with misspellings handed to you by a bum on your way to the subway, he was the storefront church with a broken window in flyover country, moreover 'inside' he was the church piano missing a couple of keys... Premies stuck me as total assholes (the 'smarts' total fakers, the 'marks' pretentious pseudo-intellectuals), and Maharaj Ji struck me as deliberately playing the role of a cynical exploiter. Aha! So this is what's meant by 'lila'???!!! (This was in an era before 'irony' was defined as a Letterman monologue-- it actually mean something back then. As did concepts of 'hip', 'camp', 'Consciousness 3', etc.) Accepting this 'revelation', I decided to explore further... Esp. since all manner of 'scholarly/respected/charismatic' gurus were contending for the 'Amerikan spiritual marketplace'! Indeed, once upon a time I viewed Rawat as the dude who drew publicans, whores, conmen and little capitalist shits to his camp and therefore-- in the convoluted logic of many (incl. breifly moi) mind(s)-- was thus 'authentic'. 'Bad Boy Appeal' = Well Rawat had 'it', and likely still does... a theory (if not a 'fact') to be ignored at the loss of understanding his entire 'game'...

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Date: Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 15:25:48 (GMT) From: cq Email: None To: El Santo Subject: you imply that you understand his 'game'? Message:

Let's hear more about your understanding of his 'entire game', El Sant0. (and don't forget to mention the casualties, now).

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Date: Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 18:25:23 (GMT) From: El Santo Email: None To: cq Subject: you imply that you understand his 'game'? Message:

Well, I really haven't much 'original' to offer here. But I perceive Rawat to have consciously and deliberately played to 'left hand' spiritual players from the start. He gathered around him the dross and most despised of Merkin Society in a rather 'in-your-face' manner (Sophia Collier in 'Soul Rush' kinda bears witness to this), he deprecated any manner of scholarship/intellectuality, clowned/camped it up onstage in one audience-mocking stunt after another, behaved in a flamingly 'politically incorrect' manner (I recall him sitting onstage with many of the most reactionary jerkoffs in Free Ameriky during the Nixon impeachment... Rabbi Baruch Korff, anyone?), ad nauseum-- and, by doing so (?) implicitly asked 'us' to transcend 'our' 'concepts' of conventional morality, etc. I mean: from the start, Rawat wasn't exactly the soft'n'fuzzy 'love child' guru, now, was he? Hell, much of his seductive power lay in his promise to share his 'Knowledge' of the putative 'dark side' with us 'unknowing' folks. Rawat was fat, ugly, inarticulate, materialistic and a pants-on-fire little capatalist shit. That 'enlightment' could be received-- much less be 'redefined' (and demoored from conventional Western and Eastern 'morality'-based spiritual understandings) -- from such an obviously flawed messenger CLEARLY accounted for much of his appeal to late '70's 'spiritual seekers'. This is all I meant. Quite a few of the satsangs I listened to as an 'aspirant' made this rather clear indeed. Invocations of Charley Manson's definition of 'The Fear' as indicative of the 'need' to 'receive Knowledge', etc.. Merely anecdotes, though, and boring after one has heard enough of same. But: Rawat's 'appeal', although multi-leveled, was especially strong to those who wished to explore the 'drak side of spirituality'. Does not history bear this out???

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Date: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 19:02:19 (GMT) From: cq Email: None To: El Santo Subject: El Santo, this is for you - Message:

Nothing original to offer? You sound like Sant-ji hisself! (but I'm not that paranoid to think you are). as for 'marks and smarts' (ref. your first post on this thread) - I have to ask why you became a premie yourself (didn't you? or am I being very dense in thinking so?) when your impression of premies was that they/we (as was) were 'total assholes'? El Santo? You listening? Or is your disdain for premies (and your moniker) an indication that you identify with the guru-figure? You - identifying with the guru??? Of course. That's part of the trip. It's getting beyond the limitations of your guru that inspires you towards the reality, isn't it? I must confess that I take issue with your implication that premies were of only two types, i.e. either total fakers or pretentious pseudo-intellectuals. Hey, what happened to us in the middle? Yeah, us partial fakers and pretentious pseudo-intellectuals? Jeez, - only pretentious? why not add 'precocious' to that as well? (or was that only me?) So, whoever you are, or want to identify with being, let's get down to some straight communication here: 'Truth is beauty, beauty truth, that is all ye know on earth, - all ye need to know' (Keats) Should it not then follow that 'truth is in the eye of the beholder'? I also wonder if it then follows that (as logic would imply) 'untruth is in the eye of the beholder'? - in other words, (as once voiced by a certain W. Shakespeare) 'nothing is good or ill (evil) save (except) thinkg make it so'? What am I getting at? To be honest with you, I'm not sure (and forgive my 'brainstorming', if it needs forgiving). But, to be fair, I'm also not sure what you're getting at. That the 'left-hand path' followers were the ones Maharaji truly was targetting? I wonder? How much of what is projected on the 'guru/master/god'-figure is a reflection of our own wishes/hopes/desires? And how much of the true character of the guru/teacher/god gets annihilated in the process? Over.

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Date: Sun, Apr 29, 2001 at 01:35:47 (GMT) From: Richard Email: None To: El Santo Subject: Your comments underscore my point Message:

... that M played to the 'otherness' and the 'marginalized' part of society. The anti-establishment guru who, while railing and ranting against conventionality, now has become further right wing than his Shrubness, the president.

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Date: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 20:02:06 (GMT) From: Susan Email: None To: Richard Subject: No I need to clarify something Message:

It may seem to us that comparing M to a mob boss is demeaning but I think otherwise. Demeaning to mob bosses? I know that Tony would be very insulted that I was comparing him to a 5'0 pudgy little cult leader who goes around getting his tootsies kissed by a bunch of woosie new agers!

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Date: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 18:14:35 (GMT) From: PatC Email: None To: Richard Subject: You just hit the nail right on the head Message:

The current PWKs love all the x-rated stuff and tell in jokes about it. It proves that Maharajism is not a religion but simply a way of ''enjoying life.'' The irony is that I doubt if the pious, vegetarian usually teetotalling, family oriented/adultery despising very conservative Indian premies will appreciate it. It will blow up in Rawat's face one day. He is being two-faced: one face (the bad boy) for the west and another (the heir to Hans' spiritual heritage) in India.

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Date: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 18:24:36 (GMT) From: Bob Email: None To: PatC Subject: almost Message:

Pat, There are many references in India of bad boy lifestyles: think of Krishna and the gopis. The double standard approach is fuly intergrated in the Hindu collective ethos. our little creep would have done much better if he wasn't so fat, but now he might think of a comeback as a gangsta boy...

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Date: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 18:29:51 (GMT) From: PatC Email: None To: Bob Subject: Indians only like DEAD badboys avatars Message:

Krishna is a favoraite because he was the least controversial of the bad boy gods in bods and they have sterilised his story for their post-Victorian aspirations to British civilization. The Radhasoami cults from which Maharajism sprang are very pious and stuffy like born again Christians.

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Date: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 13:27:01 (GMT) From: F arti. Email: None To: Everyone Subject: They sang arti tonight at Amaroo. Message:

I thought those days had long since past.Apparently it was the full version,complete with words up on the large screens.I wonder what the newer premies thought of this?

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Date: Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 07:24:51 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: F arti. Subject: Link to Arti + Lotus Feet on EPO Message:

Arti at the Lotus Feet

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Date: Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 08:09:15 (GMT) From: PatC Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Thanks, J-M. I was looking for Twameva Message:

I found the ''Jai, Gurudev'' bit but obviously did not look all the way to the end. Here it is again: You are my mother and you are my father you are my brother and you are my friend you are riches, you are wisdom You are my all, my lord to me. You are riches, You are wisdom You are my all, my Lord to me. Guru Maharaj Ji, my life is within You From You I was born and to You now I go Forever I'm Yours, my longing is endless This heart of mine aches to be one with You Forever I'm Yours, my longing is endless This heart of mine aches to be one with You Wherever I look, Your face is before me Your golden Love melts all my troubles away I give You my heart, for in You it will mellow Maharaj Ji my Lord, my life is Your play I give You my heart, for in You it will mellow Maharaj Ji my Lord, my life is Your play Oh wondrous Lord, my Guru Mahraj Ji Your grace is a river which flows on and on You fill my heart with Your Love overflowing Let me come home find my rest at Your feet You fill my heart with Your Love overflowing Let me come home find my rest at Your feet Oh my Guru Maharaji, you are all powerfull, there is nothing in this world you cannot do, you can do everything, kindly save me, kindly protect me, and thank you my Lord for everything. I don't remember this last verse at all (except maybe when I first heard it in the US I was so shocked I shut it out) but I used to love singing the four verses at the end of satsang when I was feeling blissed out. All I can think now is that this sort of stuff does not suit an ambitious messiah or a corporate ''executive friend'' (as he referred to himself yesterday) but only a very nice person who is a real friend and who does want to know your name unlike Rev Strangelove.

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Date: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 15:17:58 (GMT) From: Jerry Email: None To: PatC Subject: Thanks, J-M. I was looking for Twameva Message:

Doesn't it just melt your heart, Pat? I was reading the words to a premie who sits next to me at work (yeah, I work real hard). You know what he said? 'So, would you rather listen to Bob Mishler for 4 hours telling us how things are going to change?' Cracked me up.

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Date: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 19:12:25 (GMT) From: PatC Email: None To: Jerry Subject: Jerry, you mean you CURRENTLY sit next to a premie Message:

at work? Oh Boy! I just had an hour phone conversation with a premie friend and I just got so blissed out giving him satsang about what a fraud Rev Moon Beam Rawat is. But it went in one ear and out the other. Can't see that he's in a cult. Oh well. I might have to give up saving scorpions. :)

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Date: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 22:21:23 (GMT) From: bill-for all that money, Email: None To: F arti. Subject: you get the lord of the universe fraud...nt Message:

dasfa

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Date: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 21:20:37 (GMT) From: Mr. Mind Email: None To: F arti. Subject: There are very few new premies-nt Message:

asdf

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Date: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 18:20:45 (GMT) From: PatC Email: None To: all Subject: Where are the words to Part Two of arti? Message:

I looked for them on EPO but could not find them. I mean the slow bit that they always play without the vocals after events when the faithful flock sits and sobs and looks at the throne that the urug has just vacated. I mean the bit that goes: You are my mother and you are my father oh you are my brother and you are my friend. You are all riches and you are all learning Oh you are my lord my all to me You are my all you are my all you are my lord my god to me. Guru Maharaji my life is within you. Or something like that. It is damning evidence of what You Know Who thinks he is. Does anybody remember the words? Please post them.

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Date: Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 03:27:14 (GMT) From: Babs Email: ralphies@ralphiescafe.com To: PatC Subject: Only because I love you SO much, Message:

Pat Conlon, am I willing to wear out my little pinkies copying 'Arti,' the whole damn thing, for you - out of the official Millennium Program, no less. (I've also got the entire 'Peace Bomb' satsang if you want it.) What you are asking for, however, is the song called 'Twameva.' Unfortunately, 'Twameva' was not included in the program. Here it is, from memory, no guarantees on the spelling, followed by The Official Millennium 'Arti.' You're welcome. TWAMEVA Twameva mata, chapita twameva Twameva bandu, cha sukha twameva Twameva vidya, dravinam twameva Twameva sarvum, muma deva, deva. Twameva sarvum, muma deva, deva, Twameva sarvum, muma deva, deva. You are my mother, and you are my father You are my brother, and you are my friend You are riches, you are wisdom, You are my all, my Lord, to me. You are my all, oh, you are my all You are my all, my Lord , to me. ARTI Devotional prayer in praise of the Living Perfect Master Dhyana mulam guru murti, puja mulam guru paduka; Mantra mulam guru vakyam, moksha mulam guru kripa. Jai Gurudev, Maharaj Ji, Your glory fills the world Protector of the weary and the weak You bring the death of attachment You bring the mind true detachment Save us from the ocean deep Jai dav, Jai Satgurudev. Creator, Preserver, Destroyer Bow their heads and pray to You All bow and pray to You. Scriptures sing Your glory Scriptures sing Your sweet story Your virtues are ever true Jai dev, Jai Satgurudev. Chanting, fasting, charity, austerity Never bring you knowledge of the soul Will never reveal your soul. Without the grace of Satguru Without the Knowlegde of Satguru Rites and rituals won't reach the goal Jai dev, Jai Satgurudev. In the river of bondage to Maya All are swept out to sea All are sinking in the depths of the sea Guru's boat is the Holy Name Guru's ship is the Holy Word In seconds He has set us free Jai dev, Jai Satgurudev. Anger, desires, attachments Rob us of eternal life Take away our heavenly life Satguru gives True Knowledge Satguru is Eternal Knowledge The sword that kills our problem life Jai dev, Jai Satgurudev. Religions harp their own glories Call me to follow their own path Welcome me to follow their own way The essence of all was revealed The seed of all was revealed I walk on the true way today Jai dev, Jai Satgurudev. Nectar from Satguru's feet Is so holy and it cleans us of our sins So sacred in cleaning us of sins When He speaks darkness flies away When He speaks darkness cannot stay Doubts removed, new life then begins Jai dev, Jai Satgurudev. Mine, thine, wealth, health Give them to the Lotus Feet of Love Give them to the Lotus Feet of the Lord Give yourself to Satguru Sacrifice your all to Satguru Be united with the blissful truth Jai dev, Jai Satgurudev. Bible, Gita, the Koran Sing the glory of Your Name They all sing the glory of Your Name Angels sing Your glory Heavenly hosts sing Your praises They find no end to Your fame Jai dev, Jai Satgurudev. Desires have robbed me and left me In the darkness of the night Trapped me in the darkness of the night Guru gives Holy Name and Light Guru gives Holy Name and Sight Cross the ocean by His love and light Jai dev, Jai Satgurudev. Many past forms You have taken Now we have come in Your control Again You have come to save the soul In this time of darkness To lead Your devotees from darkness You have come as Hansa the Pure Soul Jai dev, Jai Satgurudev. Come to the shelter of Guru's grace Come with your heart and your soul Bring Him your heart and your soul Cross the worldly ocean Cross it by your devotion And attain the Supreme Goal Jai dev, Jai Satgurudev. Jai Gurudev, Maharaj Ji Your glory fills the world Protector of the weary and the weak You bring the death of attachment You bring the mind true detachment Save us from the ocean deep Jai dev, Jai Satgurudev.

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Date: Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 04:28:50 (GMT) From: PatC Email: None To: Babs Subject: Holy Cow, Babs! Thank you so much. Message:

You realize that you will not be reborn now. Anyone who writes out arti is saved from the cycle of birth and death. Aren't you sorry now. I know you would have liked another go at life if you are anything like me, a greedy little pig. Isn't there more top the Twameva part or is that it? Something about the toilet overflowing or was that love?

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Date: Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 04:53:24 (GMT) From: Babs Email: ralphie@ralphiescafe.com To: PatC Subject: You asked for it Message:

An art fancier in New York City back in the seventies, who had already collected a large number of Remingtons and Russells, was searching for a contemporary artist who could capture the spirit of the Old West. He advertised in the Village Voice for a muralist, and a premie artist answered the ad. He offered the premie room and board and a generous stipend up front, if the premie would house-sit while the collector was out of town on business for three months, and paint a mural on one of the walls in his townhouse. The theme of the mural was to be 'What was going through Custer's mind in his final moments at the battle of Little Big Horn.' The premie accepted, and went to work. Three months later, his patron returned, anxious to see what the premie had produced. In the center of the wall was a large blue cow, sitting in a lotus position, with garlands of flowers around his neck and a golden nimbus around his head. Surrounding the cow in a circle, like the numerals on a clock face, were twelve graphic illustrations from the Kama Sutra of couples in the various ritual postures of Tantric sex. The horrified collector demanded an explanation. The premie artist pointed to the mural and said, 'This is a representation of Custer's last thought: 'Holy Cow! Look at all the fucking Indians!''

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Date: Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 08:17:31 (GMT) From: PatC Email: None To: Babs Subject: Masturbating while thinking about The Shrub. Message:

Now that was my kind of joke. I just loved it. More of a chortle than a guffaw. Did you see that I found the rest of Twameva thanks to Jean-Michel's link? I bet you also used to have tears in your eyes when you waved the arti tray in front of Rev Strangelove's altar after satsang. I often did. Doesn't it give you the creeps? It's like saying that you used to masturbate thinking about Bill Gates or George Bush Lite.

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Date: Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 05:08:20 (GMT) From: Richard Email: None To: Babs Subject: You asked for it Message:

Holy Cow Babsi Ji!!!!! You had me on you prankster.

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Date: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 19:40:00 (GMT) From: G Email: None To: PatC Subject: the words Message:

From Brainwashed! 'Your glory fills the world; protector of the weary and the weak. You bring the death of attachment. You bring the mind true detachment. Save us from the ocean deep. Jai dev, Jai Satguru dev. Also You are my Mother. You are my father. You are my Brother. You are my friend. You are riches, you are wisdom. You are my all, my lord to me.' Some more that I remember: 'Guru Maharaj Ji, my life is within you. From you I was born, and to you now I go.' I don't want to think more about this.

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Date: Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 02:12:12 (GMT) From: Babs Email: ralphie@ralphiescafe.com To: G Subject: Hindi Arti Message:

Get me drunk and beg me to sing in Hindi and I can still do it, loud, nasal and grating, as a sort of parlour-trick: Jai Guru deva daya nidhi Di na na hita kari Swami bhaktana sukha kari Jai jai moha vina shaka Jai jai time ravi na shaka... Back in the day, I could do all fourteen verses by memory. Does anybody still have a copy? (How 'bout you, Postie? You da man!)

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Date: Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 15:40:55 (GMT) From: Richard Email: None To: Babs Subject: Postie don't play dat! - but I'll look... Message:

... to see if I can locate Hindi Arti in the Devotional Wing of the DLM Ashram Resident's Memorial Archives. Jyyyyyyyeee, jyyyyyyyyeeee teeeeeeeeemay reevahhhnahhh shock uhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!

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Date: Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 04:20:43 (GMT) From: Francesca Email: None To: Babs Subject: I'm scareda that! Message:

Babs: Only the true fanatics knew it in Hindi. You da mata! I remember when I was on my way down from the Marblehead Massachusetts ashram on my way to Atlanta to be in the Apostles after Millenium. We stayed in ashrams along the way. In the DC ashram they knew Arti in Hindi, and sang it in Hindi. Scary. But I must admit I know a lot of Buddhist practices in Tibetan, led some of the local chanting before I wigged out, and was even learning the language. Just so you know I'd never think you were wierd! Love --f

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Date: Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 10:21:10 (GMT) From: janet Email: None To: Francesca and babs Subject: i always thought we shoulda gone head 2 head.. Message:

with the krishna temple devotees, when they were out in the streets with their obnoxious clashing finger cymbals and their deafening chanting and funny clothes. We shoulda gone out in the streets in force to meet them with our own drums and finger cymbals and tambourines and funny clothes, and sang arti in hindi, as loudly and as nasally and as gratingly as we could--with all our indian mahatmas leading the way in their saffron robes. drown em out, and out-bhajan them, unto deafness. if nothing else it would have stunned them awhile.

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Date: Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 02:32:06 (GMT) From: salam Email: None To: Babs Subject: I thought PatC the intelligent will know:)......nt Message:

nt

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Date: Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 04:57:04 (GMT) From: Babs Email: ralphie@ralphiescafe.com To: salam Subject: I know Pat is intelligent but Message:

Postie has all the back issues of And It Is Divine and most of the back issues of Divine Times.

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Date: Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 14:42:33 (GMT) From: salam Email: None To: Babs Subject: This is becoming too philosophical Message:

Now we are measuring intelligence against posession.

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Date: Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 02:47:56 (GMT) From: PatC Email: None To: salam Subject: I'm old, Salam. I forgot. NT Message:

k

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Date: Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 03:58:31 (GMT) From: salam Email: None To: PatC Subject: I thought memory comes with intelligence Message:

Now I know better. I getting to like you a bit. So there, your honored (fuck inglish).

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Date: Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 04:30:38 (GMT) From: PatC Email: None To: salam Subject: I am honored you old curmudgeon you NT Message:

l

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Date: Sun, Apr 29, 2001 at 06:16:52 (GMT) From: salam Email: None To: PatC Subject: curmudgeon?....nt Message:

who you calling curmwhatever?

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Date: Sun, Apr 29, 2001 at 08:37:18 (GMT) From: PatC Email: None To: salam Subject: curmudgeon? It's a grumpy old Maggill NT Message:

h

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Date: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 16:43:40 (GMT) From: Sir Dave Email: None To: F arti. Subject: They sang arti tonight at Amaroo. Message:

Well, the Maha's glory doesn't fill the world and he isn't the protector of the weary and the weak. Dunno how people could sing that to him now and it not stick in their throats.

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Date: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 16:08:26 (GMT) From: JHB Email: None To: F arti. Subject: The Press will love this! Message:

Oh sure, he's just a helpful guy who teaches meditation. Cult? No, we're not a cult? Leader, no, he never claimed that, he's only the superior power in person. 100% out in the open Cult. No one can argue now. John.

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Date: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 18:00:29 (GMT) From: Francesca Email: None To: JHB Subject: Was the press allowed in Amarscroo? Message:

I don't enough ebout Amarscroo. Except for Aussies and those for whom it is relatively easy to get there, it seems like it is a 'fanatics only' event out in the middle of the bush. Do you think anyone but us is really paying attention to what goes on there? I mean, it would be a reporter's dream if they wanted to write about a goofy cult. I can only hope one of them got a smart card and attended. I am willing to be disabused of any misconceptions I may have due to my lack of 'knowledge' of current cultish behavior. Of course, the fact that I am a partial outsider after having been gone for so long does give me a certain perspective on the relative interest in it all by anyone but us ex-suckers.

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Date: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 21:26:25 (GMT) From: JHB Email: None To: Francesca Subject: No, but they're allowed in here Message:

and anywhere else that tries to say EV isn't a cult. Glen Whitaker!, how will you answer the Guardian when they ask you to comment on the words to Arti and whether EV is a cult? There are now only two options left. EV/Maharaji is a cult, or Maharaji is the incarnation of God. So, Glen, which is it? John who isn't holding out much hope for the second option.

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Date: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 22:22:34 (GMT) From: Francesca Email: None To: JHB Subject: And you just reminded me that the premies that ... Message:

...can't afford to go to Amarscrew are invited in here too. So if M does invite-only trainings, fanatic festivals in the bush, singing arti and toosie smooching, SmartCards to listen to rotten bards, someone will post the news on here! :-) Thanks to our intrepid moles ... The moles who've seen the light.

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Date: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 22:19:35 (GMT) From: F arti. Email: None To: everyone Subject: STRICTLY NO PRESS ALLOWED Message:

This has always been the policy at Amaroo.This arti thing is very interesting as it definitely points directly to M as a cult leader and truly shows just how brainwashed the flock really are. There are a lot of europeans at Amaroo for this event,but there are'nt many aussies there,just the old diehards that have been around since the early days. Interestinly,in the day before yesterdays' program M was being interupted during his sermon by a lone crow that would'nt shutup.The crows'call was echoing around the ampitheatre and the valley.It pissed M off so he turned around and told it to shutup.He was game doing this as crows tend not to take any notice,even from the lord of the universe.I don't know the outcome. A couple of programs ago at Amaroo there was a small plane interupting one of his sermons slightly and it turned out to be the press.There was an article in the Brisbane newspaper which was very anti M and the whole Amaroo cult thing.Imagine if they knew about arti.

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Date: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 22:31:09 (GMT) From: Francesca Email: None To: F arti. Subject: MiniDisc recorders and stealth mikes Message:

That's what the moles need. There are REALLY small MiniDisc recorders, and a lot of the tapers at concerts use them with stealth mikes, even if they don't need steath, because the rig is so small and portable. Although a lot of rock groups allow taping at their concerts, there are some who don't, and there is a whole subculture of folks who find all sorts of ways to hide the mikes. I think soundprofessionals sells mikes that are small enough to fit into croakies (those sunglasses holders) and can do reasonable binaural recordings. Their website, for anyone interested is http://www.soundprofessionals.com There are many sites devoted to miniDisc recording, but I've never thought of this use, because I've never had a need for stealth, only portability. Binaural recordings, because they are done with the mikes about a head's width apart are usually only good sound quality when listened to through headphones. But for speech instead of music, it should be fine. People put the mikes all sorts of places, inside hats, etc. Most of the information is posted on sites like www.minidisc.org, and www.minidiscussion.com Just a thought! --f

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Date: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 23:09:26 (GMT) From: bill-hell, we can use old Email: None To: Francesca Subject: darshan/arti footage to show press folks.....nt Message:

zcmnzc

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Date: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 22:41:59 (GMT) From: F arti. Email: None To: Francesca Subject: How about hiding one of those mikes up Message:

Maharajis' arse,then we would really get the blurb from the horses' mouth(arse)

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Date: Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 14:16:43 (GMT) From: cq Email: None To: F arti. Subject: How about hiding one of those mikes up Message:

Very subtle strategy, F. Would it look as good as this though? http://www.geocities.com/agforumdata/Folder1/heypresto.jpg

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Date: Sun, Apr 29, 2001 at 08:44:58 (GMT) From: F arti Email: None To: cq Subject: Hey Cq.I have done one of those pages on Geocities Message:

but do not know how to do the link thing like you did with the word 'this' Is it easy to do?Ps Your page did not appear. F arti

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Date: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 19:10:56 (GMT) From: cq Email: None To: F arti Subject: problem with Sir Dave's site for a while now ... Message:

http://www.geocities.com/notmaharaji/agforumdata/ is the address for the 'picture depository' that Dave set up some time ago. The pic is there. Just why it doesn't link to EPO has been a source of some bile in my gut for a while now.

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Date: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 21:41:27 (GMT) From: PatC Email: None To: cq Subject: It's geocities, Chris - don't allow direct links Message:

since about a month ago. They're falling to pieces with the rest of the free webhosts. You have to open a new window and do the copy/paste routine.

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Date: Sun, Apr 29, 2001 at 17:07:08 (GMT) From: Francesca Email: None To: F arti Subject: Go to the main forum page Message:

and hit forum help, I think at the bottom of the page. Maybe it's even on this page at the bottom. It will show you the html code to make the link. It's easy, but if I type it here, it will embed itself and just make another link. In other words, all you'll see is the link and not the coding. Check it out.

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Date: Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 10:29:38 (GMT) From: janet Email: None To: F arti. Subject: the net is global:look up the brisbane press Message:

send them arti and tell them what's going on in Ivory's Rock right now. tell em they can't get in the gate but they could fly over. Or we could send em the day- by- day's and the links to this site and others. stir up all kinds of local trouble for future events and the rep of the conference center commercially as to what renting it is supporting

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Date: Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 11:12:02 (GMT) From: janet Email: None To: janet Subject: the brisbane press Message:

the local paper nearby is the qqueensland independent its url is http://www.uq.edu.au/jrn/tqi/ or use this link the queensland independent i just wrote them a letter to the in dept reporter o staff. feel free to write a second and third, getting them interested in knowing who their strange neighbor at Ivory's Rock really is. I sent him the link here to the site. guys name is Paul. more to come possibly.

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Date: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 08:48:38 (GMT) From: Alice Bogacki Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Premie guru enlightened swami and everything else Message:

Ever wonder why you bother criticising others? What you guys are writing in your discussions here is little more than teenage-level gossip. Who benefits from the time you spend on your computers spreading wild rumours and stabbing people in the back? Toby and Jean Michel have e-mailed me on a level that's close to being technically called harrassement. Because it's so ridiculous I've had to let you all know that it's OK to have fun with all this, but when it comes to normal people living happy fulfilled lives - what you guys are doing here stinks! Have a look at yourselves - sniveling and sneering... help! I forgot people find it hard to grow up sometimes. Any chance of a reprieve? I haven't had anything to do with Maharaji for about eleven long, happy years! He was fantastic when I needed someone to point me in a fulfilling direction, then it's time to grow up and get on with your own yummy, joyful and awesomely potentialised life. Get on with it guys! Stop rolling around in the dim dark past! Whatever your mind focuses on sticks to you like mud. You all know that one - it's so obvious. And, if it makes you happy to make other people unhappy - well, methinks that needs a rethink. Any questions?

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Date: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 23:33:23 (GMT) From: JHB Email: None To: Alice Bogacki Subject: Just Another Hit and Run Message:

Amazing isn't it, how many come here (OK Alice had a sort of invite), criticise, and then don't answer the responses. I doubt if she's even read them. Alice, do you dare debate with us? John.

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Date: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 18:46:10 (GMT) From: Francesca Email: None To: Alice Bogacki Subject: Who are you and what the hey are you talking about Message:

I have no idea who you are. I have no idea why you're angry. This statement seems to indicate that you may have been on the fringe, and never took too big a bite of the apple. Or that you're still in denial about what a fraud Rawat is: He was fantastic when I needed someone to point me in a fulfilling direction, then it's time to grow up and get on with your own yummy, joyful and awesomely potentialised life. With your other insulting comments re telling us to grow up, methinks the lady doth protest too much. If you can look at M and what you're doing and still think he's wonderful, it's a good thing this Forum is here to tell people otherwise, including telling you. And if you don't like it. Ta ta. You don't have to come here. You can go back to your 'yummy, joyful and awesomely potentialized life.' IMNSHO that sounds like real yuppie new-age stuff. Fine if you're about 30, buffed or in otherwise good physical shape, have good relationships, have a good job, get to travel, meet nice people. Try telling that to, for example, a severely handicapped person, or someone who's getting ready to die. It may still be 'aweseomely potentialized,' but I can tell you right now that most people wouldn't call the misfortunes that life can hand one (or that one can get themselves into) 'yummy' or 'joyful.' This is riding the bike on Sunday on a sunny day talk. Hope you can stay on the bike and it doesn't rain. --f

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Date: Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 16:19:47 (GMT) From: Nigel Email: None To: Alice Bogacki Subject: I'm having FUN! What's your excuse? (nt) Message:

nt

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Date: Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 00:56:33 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: Alice Bogacki Subject: Alice chill out Message:

Go listen to a motivational speaker or some guru. I have Chris Farley taped from his Matt Folely Motivational Speaker SNL skits if you are in need of some new material. Isn't it always easier to be the one everyone is looking up to? A little thin skinned when you are on the other end, no? First time I saw a former EST trainer doing the Motivational Speaker schtick I thought, of course! He had the perfect training to lead a bunch of people around. Sound familiar? Selene from the why didn't I think of that line of work dept.

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Date: Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 14:45:45 (GMT) From: salam Email: None To: Selene Subject: because if you did Message:

we will be having a go at you, silly.

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Date: Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 18:08:24 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: salam Subject: of course, no one has EVER picked on me here Message:

And who could ever criticize my amazing website

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Date: Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 21:38:16 (GMT) From: JHB Email: None To: Selene Subject: *** Great Website, Selene! *** Message:

I think it said it all:-) John.

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Date: Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 21:50:27 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: JHB Subject: thanks JHB hope it makes up for my post above Message:

I get into snit fits. Now am feeling bad about my 'Don't Know It All' post in thread up above and feeling like I picked on the FA's - oh well, under constuction as you said, says it all :(

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Date: Sun, Apr 29, 2001 at 05:46:26 (GMT) From: salam Email: None To: Selene Subject: Fuck, a U-cluster Message:

Is this what you do,. Ahh you %$^*( @#EW#$ ^yt&m<

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Date: Sun, Apr 29, 2001 at 21:50:49 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: salam Subject: Fuck, a U-cluster? no that is not what I do (ot) Message:

Teh U cluster project is mostly history the machines are now replaced and only used for email and personal web pages. Main site is now UAInfo

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Date: Sun, Apr 29, 2001 at 06:40:58 (GMT) From: salam Email: salam_au@iprimus.com.au To: salam Subject: me again....ot ot way ot. Message:

friggin website at AU. Half the links don't work. Tell me where to find the links for the fees for postgrad study, Master or PHD in Networking. how do I lay my fingers on the U-cluster. I WANT IT. And what chances of working while studying at the Uni. Seeing you're there, maybe you can fix me up somewhere, hey?:). Pleetzz e-mail me. A U-cluster she says.

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Date: Sun, Apr 29, 2001 at 21:24:12 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: salam Subject: salam what are you talking about?? ot very ot Message:

I agree the links on our site should work better. I just tried the photo gallery and couldn't get pics. I did work on that project and quit a few years ago, after it got team team team happy, very synchronized etc. Our distance learning program is so so. NAU's is better but 'we' (hehee hee) are developing distance learning and that is what I do, yes. Are you going to come to school here? The weather, snakes and spiders will be familiar :) I'll check email later. Was very very sick last night am now taking antibiotics.

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Date: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 23:16:38 (GMT) From: bill--alice just does not Email: None To: Alice Bogacki Subject: understand. There IS a need for EPO and forum..nt Message:

khfhgf

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Date: Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 01:03:38 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: bill--alice just does not Subject: Bill, this 'nt' thing of your is irritating Message:

Coem on, Bill, cut it out, will you? Look at what you're doing now -- one line after another just so you don't have to write anything more than the subject line. It's irritating. Sometimes a few words are just what you want, sometimes not. So why unnecessarily constrain yourself like this? Please, don't.

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Date: Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 03:34:38 (GMT) From: bill--ok but those Email: None To: Jim Subject: would have been 3 seperate posts anyway...nt Message:

dfgha

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Date: Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 04:33:31 (GMT) From: PatC Email: None To: bill--ok but those Subject: Enough with the koans, bill, and tell me about Message:

Buddha. Yes, I'm nagging. You have to type something into the message field anyway and I usually click on them also so that are highlighted and new posts stick out.

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Date: Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 03:42:10 (GMT) From: Jim - how would you know? Email: None To: bill--ok but those Subject: You're too conditioned to recall anything else (nt Message:

gggggg

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Date: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 23:30:29 (GMT) From: bill--haha, guess this is Email: None To: bill--alice just does not Subject: a sample of her 'expanded self awareness'..nt Message:

sdfha

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Date: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 23:36:27 (GMT) From: bill-on her website she Email: None To: bill--haha, guess this is Subject: says 'who is alice power'! guru mahalice ji..nt Message:

asdga

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Date: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 20:12:31 (GMT) From: suchabanana Email: None To: Alice B. Subject: Actually, God enlightened me when I was a child... Message:

Dear Alice, there are many swamis in this world... However, just speaking for me, it was Not guru but God within that showed me the experience of inner light -- from the time I was a small child. I used to pray and then watch my inner light almost every night before eventually drifting off to sleep [still do, in fact]. And when I called upon it - to Know it and be One with it - that Light radiated and expanded from within and lit up the room as it enveloped my physical form. I had no one to share such experiences with - until I met some premies. But then, I was fed many cult concepts about the guru -- and over the years, I have found most of them to be untrue. So now, I am back to being that same simple child in the presence of my Creator -- only older and wiser now, too. You know, m. used to say a mantra, 'No cheat, no deceit.' But he did not practice what he preached. So, he is just bozo, too -- like everyone else. A True master would have been the model of Truth. Peace and lentils to you,

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Date: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 20:51:54 (GMT) From: Francesca Email: None To: suchabanana Subject: seeing light as a child Message:

Whoa. In response to this one: Not guru but God within that showed me the experience of inner light -- from the time I was a small child. I used to pray and then watch my inner light almost every night before eventually drifting off to sleep [still do, in fact]. So did I. Because I was Catholic, I used to lay in bed and rise up to see Jesus. I don't remember much about getting to Jesus, because instead there'd be light. Because I was a child I often turned it into shapes, like candy on a conveyor belt going by. Yum. Yum. Since I didn't know what it was, I only relied on it several times to get me out of emotional heartaches. In other words, I kinda knew how to meditate already as a child, but I didn't know what it was. I wonder how many others have had similar experiences? I'll bet many. I didn't think of it as a source, or creator or anything conceptual, it just was. One night when I was crying my heart out in bed I saw a light in the corner of the room, like a guardian. It didn't eliminate the darkness of the room, it was just a small light in the corner. I went to sleep that night as if an angel was watching over me. If only we could be taught to trust what is within us, without being asked to sell our proverbial souls to the ones who point the way. Great post.

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Date: Sun, Apr 29, 2001 at 16:28:35 (GMT) From: Cynthia Email: None To: Francesca Subject: seeing light as a child...Francesca, me too... Message:

Hi Francesca, First, I want to apologize for tearing into you the other day. No excuses, I was simply triggered. I think you're right about a lot of children seeing light. I saw light nearly every night, too. I had no idea what it was, but I would also block my ears with my fingers so I really got lost in there (my head that is). The minute I left my K session, I remember telling premies that I remembered seeing the same light as a kid, and they all ignored me. It was a great comfort during some dreadful nights, seeing light. Now, without doing any techs, I still see it, and it's much more of a comfort WITHOUT the attachment to the Great Lardness. Sorry again for my outburst-- Cynthia

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Date: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 00:41:11 (GMT) From: such Email: None To: Cynthia and Francesca Subject: Exactly!!!! Peace and lentils [love] (nt Message:

nt

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Date: Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 00:10:45 (GMT) From: Bin Liner Email: None To: Francesca Subject: seeing light as a child Message:

It was the memory of having seen light before , which suddenly came back to me during the 'k' session , that was the foundation of my belief that rawat must be the avatar. I got involved just before the selection process meant more or less having to accept him as such before initiation ,& would have been pleased to find out that it was all bullshit. I never liked the look of him . What is this light , why is it so comforting & what does it all mean ? I haven't got a clue & it doesn't worry me , I'm certainly not going to get into arguments about evolution v spirituality , but I am interested in origins. The civilisation of which rawat is a debased product goes back to Mohenjo Daro 5000 yrs since (I'm bullshitting here) . The civilisation of which we are a product has been seriously fucked up over the same timeframe . I'm thinking about the fall of Rome & before that the burning of the library at Alexandria . If we'd had access to the thinking of the ancients , the explanations of the sacred mysteries , the key to the oracle at Delphi , & all the rest of it lost to the flames , then : Maybe we would have laughed at Rawat's pretensions , because we would've understood where he was coming from . But we didn't (& couldn't) , we were lambs to the slaughter .

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Date: Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 02:48:01 (GMT) From: such Email: None To: Bin Liner Subject: enjoyed -- Good on you, Bin! (nt Message:

nt

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Date: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 20:14:07 (GMT) From: Steve Quint Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com To: suchabanana Subject: Please Don't Get Too Dahl Now nt Message:

nt

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Date: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 15:41:03 (GMT) From: Way Email: None To: Alice Bogacki Subject: Premie guru enlightened swami and everything else Message:

Thanks for sharing your lovely insights. How much do we owe you? Here are a few insights from me: Spiritual truths are not for sale. No truths are yours to sell to somebody else. Earn an honest living for yourself. Then, share your perspectives freely, at no charge.

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Date: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 13:58:32 (GMT) From: salam Email: salam_au@iprimus.com.au To: Alice Bogacki Subject: Alice me dear Message:

Did anyone tell you that you look lovely in the picture, well there you go. They can be ignorant sometimes. Anyway, it doesn't effect me one way or another if you are a premie or not. Obviously you are pissed off because you feel that you have been harrassed by the fact that you are offering some sort of service. I and some others may or may not agree what you do, this is a choice that everyone have. You probably came to this site recently, well, all I can say, that above from the bickering, fighting and the ocasional punches, there are a lot of people that come here to look for answers, as far as gugu hahaji is concerned. There has been a continous stream of people leaving the haha and this is their first landing spot. This is a discussion board and things do get out of hand, but that is healthy for everyone. One thing is certain, no one can get away with it here. You may find a lot of information on the website useful to give you an understanding of the nuts and bolts of what is it that we (premies and exes) were involved with. Also, some people here have had some real problem with the haha, and are struggling with the issue still, so please understand. I can wish you lentils and brown rice, but instead, anyone that bugs you, you are free to them to stick it up there nose. take care and be good, Salam p.s. as far as you're site is concerened, others have already said the right stuff. Personally, I think the design sucks, and can be improved, no offence. Well that's what you get for using Trellix Web. Am happy to give you a hand if you like(for free). (spelling mistakes are included)

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Date: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 11:19:20 (GMT) From: Sir Dave Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com To: Alice Bogacki Subject: This was inevitable Message:

If you put yourself on the web, I think you have to also accept that criticism may come your way. It's up to you to either ignore it or listen to it but it's bound to come. You're criticising the people here. I accept that and ignore it. Surely you can do the same if you want. I don't know how people criticising you or your site on the net can make you unhappy but if it does, you're taking obvious and inevitable criticism too personally. If you put yourself up as any type of guru, you're going to get criticism. That's a fact of life. It's free world. You and I can do pretty much what we like but there will always be others who disagree. Can't you accept that and live with it?

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Date: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 10:06:46 (GMT) From: Mr. Mind Email: None To: Alice Bogacki Subject: Yep, Ms. Power took the best of rawat and..... Message:

...turned it into her own little guru/new age business. She also can be added to the long list of people using the 'get on with your life' approach to avoiding the issue. However, in her case it's understandable since to confront the issue of her former cult involvement might affect her ability to earn money as well.

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Date: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 23:18:22 (GMT) From: bill Email: None To: Mr. Mind Subject: what does she do for a job?..nt Message:

adfsha

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Date: Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 02:23:54 (GMT) From: Mr. Mind Email: None To: bill Subject: what does she do for a job?..nt Message:

all the usual new age scams, she empowers individuals and business clients...her website is somewhere below or on inactive...

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Date: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 09:27:04 (GMT) From: Tim G Email: None To: Alice Bogacki Subject: Why do YOU point the finger? Message:

Hi Alice. Aren't you swallowed up in your own argument? You sound angry to me. Some of the people here are too. I agree that too much time spent here is a waste of precious focus...same with many things. BUT I have come to see that this forum is of great help in two important arenas. 1 It allows people who Have been hurt by the cult to express that damage and work through it. 2. It is of help in giving the other side of the argument to the cult's stance, This can be of benefit to someone contemplating joining up and getting involved in a blind alley for maybe many years. OK ,there are plenty of blind alleys and we are of course free as birds to travel them.But lets at least have some information out here in the public domain. In my book attention to life within and without, moment to moment, reveals more than wish any fulfilment routine or belief. Best Tim

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Date: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 09:23:56 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Alice Bogacki Subject: I've never emailed you Message:

Did you read my posts below about your website ? Never intended anything else. I don't see the point attacking you. I can understand you don't like your website being mentioned here ! But having it online involves being suject to criticism. Can you accept this ? No big deal ... And I never emailed you nor threatened anybody here or anywhere else in my life. I can understand some people don't like what I'm writing or what I'm involved in. I accept this. That's life.

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Date: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 11:06:19 (GMT) From: toby Email: None To: Alice Subject: Well I did , and i got what I wanted Message:

I admitt , I did provoke you to get a response concerning what I have seen on your page. Yes , a plagiate of maharaji mixed with newage-philosophie. Well point the finger to yourself. And growing up does not have to mean , 'now I run the same business as maharaji did by myself'. It can also mean to wake up, take responsibility, and protect others from traps like m's or even yours toby PS: Sorry to jean-michel , i mentioned you in my first mail to her, that was wrong.

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Date: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 22:56:03 (GMT) From: Lesley Email: None To: toby Subject: The Instructor Trap Message:

Well said, Toby, I think you have outlined the instructor trap. Daddy gives them a brand new suit, just like his, and says you are my grown up boy now, and sets them up with a flock of little sisters and brothers to look after. As you said, that's not growing up. Best Regards, Lesley

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Date: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 07:51:23 (GMT) From: PatC Email: None To: Everyone Subject: I am grateful to Maharaji Message:

Letter of resignation I didn't send to Rawat To: Mr Rawat From: Patrick Conlon Dear Sir, I have served you sincerely but not totally selflessly (that would have been silly) for 28 years. If you had taken the trouble to get to know me and read any of my letters or emails to you in the past you will have seen that. I do admit that you may not have liked all my letters especially the first one that I wrote to you in 1980 accusing you of being a conman who was ripping off the western premies in order to bankroll his circus in India. But didn't I make up for in it subsequent letters gushing with joy at how much I was enjoying life? I was very grateful to you for inspiring me to meditate. I have had a lot of fun with it for many years but I don't for one minute believe that my experience can be labelled ''Knowledge.'' In fact I heard that you have been thinking of dumping a label for the ''experience'' that you offer. What will you call it? You Know What? Well, let me tell you that I don't believe that any feeling that I experience is the same as anybody else's including yours. How can a feeling be described literally? Why give it the name of GOD (or describe it in coy and deceitful terms such as ''that place within inside of you'') and turn it into a religion as you have done? A lucrative religion at that. You are a silly man. You had an opportunity as no other guru has ever had. You had the most passionate and adventurous people of an entire generation at your disposal and you experimented with them insouciantly. I won't tell how you where you went wrong now lest you try to use it to go right. (I'll tell you privately for a one time fee of $100,000 and a letter of apology and resignation from you - and I'm only half kidding - it'd be more honest than donations.) Anyway, I am not ungrateful to you. You elicited responses in me that I had not experienced before and confirmed for me my hunch that I could feel as nice as I wanted by my own efforts although at first I did subscribe to the notion that those feelings were dependent on your agency. Those were the days, my friend. Yes, we thought they'd...(Your Rawat Holy Family Enterprise packed a lot more punch than your auto-fellatio DVDs do.) So thanks, dude. Been nice to know you. The vibes were great - once. And thanks a lot for curing me of gurujism once and for all. Sincerely, You former peon, Pat The subtle thing that I wanted to say is that I am grateful to Mr Rawat for lots of good times with him. I had some bad times but not as bad as some people did. Most of the bad times were due to my own ignorance and lack of self-confidence or faith in myself. Long before I found out about the very naughty things that Rev Rawat has been up to I had outgrown my need for him. I began to read EPO after I became disenchanted with him but it served to pinpoint many of the uneasy feelings that I had had right from the beginning. (I resisted getting K for two years because I did not trust him.) Also I do not believe that he is entitled to label the fun that I am having as ''Knowledge'' and turn it into a money-making religion. And I also think the whole idea of having A TEACHER or MASTER or YOU KNOW WHO or WHATEVER is creepy, undemocratic and uncivilized and definitely unconstitutional in my state of mind. It was a shock to go back into the cult after only seeing videos for 17 years in which he portrayed himself as ''one of us'' - ''just another premie'' as one of my close premie friends recently said to me in his defense. I had been lulled into thinking that he really was just an ordinary guy. But ''synchronized participation'' cured me of that illusion. It was SOS (the same old shit) - an undemocratic, secretive and conspiratorial cult. I can't get too worked up about all the crimes that he committed against other people - well not consistently. My biggest beef against him is that he has set himself up as a Master or You Know Who. But I think that is the worst indictment against him. It is the most foul and vicious thing another man can do to you. And for that alone I accuse him of the greatest crime against humanity. Yesterday Rawat talked about ''liberation.'' You cannot set anyone else free just as you cannot give another person power. They have to take their own freedom and wrest their own power. The powerless become powerful by taking power. I saw this happen in practical political terms in South Africa. Many white poeple went to prison for opposing apartheid and attempting to GIVE power to the Africans (and many western liberals grandstanded sanctimoniously) but nothing worked until the mining trade unions brought the country to its economic knees. He also rambled on but coyly avoided mentioning exactly it was that he was talking about. I think his market researchers have told him not to be too specific. He may make another blunder like he did in 1997 in Amaroo when he said that his father had described the ultimate experience, ''samadhi,'' as ''like being asleep but awake at the same time.'' Is that REM sleep where one is incapable of moving because the brain has shut down movement lest we follow our dreams and sleepwalk? He doesn't have a clue what he's talking about and couldn't give a shit. He was describing the sensation of being blind drunk. That's the only samadhi he's ever had.

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Date: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 14:23:57 (GMT) From: salam Email: None To: PatC Subject: you're becoming funny Message:

I haven't been following here lately and this question may offend you a bit. You are Pat Conlon, yes? If it is you, how did you become inteligent so quick?:) (I said it might offend you)

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Date: Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 00:44:13 (GMT) From: PatC Email: None To: salam Subject: I'll be serious then - 5 phases of posting on F5 Message:

Yes, Salam, I'm Pat Conlon and I'm hurt to the quick by your comments and mortally offended. But seriously - I've been through several phases since starting to post on FV. First I was trying to be funny and fell flat on my face and then I thought I better let people see that I could be serious so I started giving sermons. These are the phases of posting here: 1) Bounce in and tell everybody they're loosers and only you know what's what. 2) Oops! The bulldogs attack so you suck up to them just like you have to suck up to the bullies in school. 3) Then you start feeling more confident and start picking fights with Jim and Salam. 4) They slap you and you sulk into a corner and lick your wounds. 5) You start to find everything about the cult and your involvement in it hilarious and you can't stop laughing about it and you realize that you can't please everybody so you post whatever you want.

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Date: Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 01:24:28 (GMT) From: salam Email: None To: PatC Subject: great stuff Message:

That is the idead, most of the time I found out that people post because they feel like it. any dumb ass poster normally go down the shoot. I like PatC anyway,

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Date: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 12:08:01 (GMT) From: Tim G Email: None To: PatC Subject: I am grateful to Pat C. (nt) Message:

nice one Pat

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Date: Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 00:30:53 (GMT) From: PatC Email: None To: Tim G Subject: Thanks Tim, I'm grateful for you guys on FV - NT Message:

l

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 19:30:08 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: It's like one, long shaggy dog story Message:

This bugs the hell out of me. Here's the latest EV Newsletter highlighting the Hamster's chattering yesterday: Know where you're headed Edited excerpt, Maharaji in Amaroo, 26th April, 2001 Today I was just feeling how important it is in one's life to have that clarity, to have that focus, to have that beacon that we can navigate towards. You know, we fly around in modern airplanes and have such an abundance of navigation backups. It's really actually bizarre because in the old days all they had was a equivalent of an AM antenna, and you had a device on the airplane which just pointed to it. You took off from some place like San Francisco, you were proceeding towards Hawaii, and you just pointed the airplane in the right direction. Then you hoped that everything would be good until on the other side the beacon would come alive and point towards one of the islands. And people would get lost. [This is infuriating. He keeps talking about 'how important it is' to know where you're going but HE NEVER EVER SPELLS IT OUT! Why is that? Is he or is he not leading his followers to some spiritual destination? Are they or are they not on some sort of spiritual path? You know, I think all that stuff's complete bullshit in any event but, regardless, this is ridiculous. WHAT THE FUCK IS HE TALKING ABOUT? Obviously, he's talking about nothing, an imaginary, unmentionable destination. One that you have to constantly aim for yet, don't forget, you can't have any concepts about it either! He's going to lead you there but, don't forget this either -- he's no leader. Christ!] Good Pilots Check Now they have hyper-sophisticated stuff. They have a laser light that is bounced in a triangular fashion, and once a light has been shot, it will continue to travel in a straight line. And they can actually detect the forward motion, or backward motion, or the up or down in any motion on any axis. So they can pinpoint exactly where the airplane is on the face of this earth. Now, even though all this hyper-sophisticated stuff is there, that doesn't mean that people don't provide a wrong name of where they are going, and end up in the wrong place. It still happens. Because it is so important, to know where you are headed. And pilots - good pilots at least - will double check or triple check to make sure that what is in the computer is indeed where they intend to fly. Because it is incredible important. Why? Because when you get lost, you get lost very quickly. [This is great. The obligatory fear-mongering. Tell me, Hamster, when you're fucking some pathetic premie you've managed to have brought to your hotel room, is THIS what you tell her? When you're sinking into the couch, drunk -- again -- is this what you tell yourself?] Different But The Same And in this world, we come, we are here, and certainly one viewpoint is presented to us. Not the whole picture, but a view point. This is how it is, this how it should be, this is how you must be, this is what is going to happen to you. And all of this depends where you are born. Not only does it depend where you are born, it depends in which family you are born. You could be a Hindu and you will have a totally different perspective than a Christian family, a totally different perspective than if you were born in a Jewish family, and a totally different perspective if you were born in a Muslim family. Even though you breathe the same air and you breathe it the same way, and every cell in your body works that same way, as the others. You may have variations, but every human being born on the face of this earth is the same. Different but the same. And yet how they are going to proceed, what it is to be liberated, what it is to be in peace, what it is to have tranquillity, what it is that this life is for, will be different because of the indoctrination that they will receive. [Blah, blah, blah, liberation -- what's that?] You As a Human Being A long time ago it was established that it would be good to have this navigating beacon, this system to be able to navigate. Somebody who could point to that most essential thing that is within you. Somebody who could say, 'There is all this and there is all that and there are all the belief systems but you as a human being - not as a Hindu, not as a Christian - but you as a human being owe it to yourself to be in touch with that one part of you that is incredibly profound. [Ignoramus leading a bunch of other ignoramuses. What a fucker he is, invoking the religious bullshit about it being 'established' that there was 'somebody who could point ....', then pretending that he's above and beyond religion. Anyone who can't see through this is stupid.] ********** Take advantage of the opportunity The third day of Amaroo 2001 saw the sunny warmth of the Australian autumn turn to clouds and distant lightning, and Maharaji took full advantage of the thunderous sound effects and threatening rain in expounding his message. [What kind of whorehouse is this? The johns are just looking for some special effects to spice up their fun?] Earlier in the day, while the sun still beat down, people noticed an unannounced event taking place for all who wished to pay their personal respects to Maharaji. For those wanting to take advantage of the opportunity, another will happen today. [Now this really does sound like a sex act to obscene to spell out.] At the event itself, guests were again treated to two humorous entertainments before Maharaji spoke.[Notice how wooden the cult is about humour? What is this shit, 'two humorous entertainments'? My little theory is that humour, real humour, is the mark of an independent mind. The mind needs room to quickly consider a situation and evaluate it on ITS terms. But, in a cult, that autonomy's compromised. Thus, one laughs too hard at 'authorized' jokes and gets skittish about any other humour. It's as if they're all visiting from mars or something. Coneheads.] But as with the previous evening, the real enjoyment came from a relaxed and natural Maharaji, who varied his talk from profound inspiration to sidesplitting humor. The audience had a difficult choice in watching him “live” on stage or catching his expressive facial expressions on the two large screens.[Yes, his 'sidesplitting humour', of course. See what I mean? And then this further garbage about how 'difficult' it was deciding how best to catch his essence. You really want to get all those 'expressive facial expressions', don't you? No, this isn't a cult. What gave you that idea?] While lightning bursts lit up the horizon, and thunder punctuated his words, the rain held off until Maharaji had finished speaking, with the buzz amongst the audience testifying to another night of inspiration and pleasure.[Profane anthropomorphism and further indulgence in this Guru-Whore theme. Pleasure, my ass. Pleasure is what Maharaji has with all these idiots' money. Pleasure is what he has with their bodies if he happens to grab a decent one. I just picture these gurunoids drooling and, sorry, that disgusts me. Yes, I know, they might not literally drooling but they're certainly drooling into within inside, now aren't they?]

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 22:39:04 (GMT) From: janet Email: None To: Jim Subject: you know, i said this once before here.. Message:

I keep thinking back to that time when our ultimate dream was to have a pice of land far away from the rest of the world where we could live with maharaji all day and all night and just drift in 'that' state of consciousness he put us in when he droned on and put our minds out. they have it now, in the very existence of Amaroo. They delibarately keep the greatest part of it undeveloped, in order to leave lots of space for a person to wander off into nature and take in the vista as it might have been in Eden, alone with their revirginized perception of creation. And I'm sure the dream is still alive, the hope that someday they can all just close out the borders and spend the rest of eternity alone in their deserted land with their inspirational leader, having left life as they knew it in the distant past, unreal, forgotten. i keep thinking of the lab tests on rats in cages with the levers and chutes and rewards. If you provide them a chute that always delivers the reward to them, every time they push the lever, they spend time wit it until they know how it works, and then they walk off and go investigate something else, and only come back to it when they want what it delivers. If you give them a chute with a lever that never delivers anything, they stay with it briefly, only long enough to realize nothing happens, and they leave it to go look for something more worthwhile. But if you give them a chute that sometimes delivers the reward, sometimes doesn't, and spread out the time between rewards erratically so that they can never be sure if they'll get a reward or not, THEY WILL BECOME OBSESSED WITH IT AND STAY THERE, TRYING THE LEVER NONSTOP IN HOPE OF GETTING THE REWARD AND FIGURNG OUT HOW TO GET REWARDED EVERY TIME. Isn't this the same obsession that holds premies caught fast to the hope of 'experience' from Knowledge and being with Maharaji? The perpetual hope of getting some massive experience that 'does' it, once and for all? And isn't he like the erratic chute that might deliver a nice reward if you keep perpetually working it and stick around and keep trying for it? something like a slot machine? you keep putting in quarters and playing again, in the hopes of one of these times striking it rich and hitting the jackpot? and how much money DO you keep putting in, to keep yourself right there,playing and at the ready, all the while you're waiting for the big payoff? and what HAVE you lost, if you leave before it comes? isn't that exactly the sucker's bet he lives on? with everybody he takes in?

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Date: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 08:30:15 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: janet Subject: The Divine City Message:

Your post reminded me of the plans for the Divine City janet. An artists impression was published on the front page of Divine Times in about 1973. I think the headline said something like, 'Plans for Divine City Unveiled.' I wonder what happened to it? Maybe they built in Montana and forgot to tell anybody. Yeah. That's where all our money went. Anth, who'd rather go to Butlins Holiday Camp.

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Date: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 01:41:39 (GMT) From: bill Email: None To: janet Subject: amaroo is too dangerous to walk off the Message:

mowed and sprayed areas. There are snakes and spiders that are deadly.

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Date: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 01:23:27 (GMT) From: Sir Dave Email: None To: janet Subject: That's good analogy, Janet Message:

Since I understand the world of gambling, it really is like premies are gambling everything they've got in the hope of a jackpot win. I know I did. And I lost bigtime like many others. Gambling can often become compulsive in some people. They simply have to try again to see if this time they really will get a big win. But like all compulsive gamblers, they aren't keeping accounts and don't notice the good money they're pissing away month after month, year after year. And because they don't notice the losses outweighing the returns, any win seems like a justification for their habit. I've seen the look of joy on gamblers' faces when they get a good win but they've paid a heavy price for it, which they fail to think about, of course. Ask any gambler if he's made a profit overall and he'll tell you about his big wins. Of course, his mind shuts off to the reality that if he'd kept his money in his pocket, he'd be much richer.

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 21:59:04 (GMT) From: Tony Email: None To: Jim Subject: It's like one, long shaggy dog story Message:

G'day Jim, excellent post Jim,you see it very clearly and can express is very well.I have been getting phone calls of a night with updates of the days events at Amaroo and as you say it is the same old story over and over again.The same as christianity which has been telling the same story for 2,000 years.

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 21:02:05 (GMT) From: JHB Email: None To: Jim Subject: Good Point - What is the Destination? Message:

Anybody who still believes there's something all this spiritual/consciousness raising mumbo-jumbo care to answer this question? What is the destination on the way to which we might get lost? Realising Knowledge hasn't been mentioned for a long time or has it? Or is it implicit these days? Or is total devotion the destination (and the journey)? Yes, I think that's it. Guru John the Realised I'll have a better chance of passing my written Latvian driving test tomorrow if I don't spend the next two hours on the forum.

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 21:00:36 (GMT) From: Sir Dave Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com To: Jim Subject: A substitute for real life Message:

The references to the thunder and lightening are obviously references to the Maha's all powerful Lord of the Universe status. 'See, he even can control the weather!' Kind of sad really. They're getting a few days 'pleasure' and then it's back to the old normal life again. Because they've got a blinkered view of the world, they think that's it and yet they probably don't appreciate that there's great pleasure to be had from normal everyday living with normal everyday people and family and friends without any 'master' in sight. I guess these are the people who want to be led. For them, this is their life and a high point of their life. It all depends where you look. You can get high points and more without listening to a 'master' who in reality doesn't know any more about life than your average Joe Blow and probably much less. If I thought that I had to travel to the other side of the world to get a few days of inspiration and pleasure, I would really be in a mess. I think now that premies have substituted the normal pleasures of everyday life and relationships for the occasional pleasure of seeing their Lord and master. It's manufactured pleasure, if it's there at all. It certainly would be no pleasure for me. I used to hate those Maha 'festivals'!

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 23:42:12 (GMT) From: jumbler Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: pick the right target Message:

I think we ought to have some compassion for those who are being conned here, didn't we all lose sight of reality at some time in the past? Weren't we all 'pathetic premies' to some degree. It's not the victims we should vent our anger on. Having said that I vote we nuke the bastard.

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 23:52:55 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: jumbler Subject: Compassion for Premies Message:

Jumbler, Premies are like people wearing clown outfits. Whether they mean to be or not, they're funny. All you have to do is read the ELK droppings if you can't remember. They're absurd and yes, last time I looked, absurd meant funny. But this isn't like some sort of personal prejudice or anything. The moment any premie wakes up and takes off their makeup, something that's happened often enough here, they're met with respect, support and empathy. It's always been like that. But as long as they engage in this farce, they're part of it. It's like some comical scene out of Gulliver's Travels, perhaps. ALL the participants are funny even though none of them actually intended to be comedians. For myself, I get a really good laugh out of myself as a premie. AND I get a similar laugh out of YOU as a premie. It's unavoidable, not to mention good, clean fun.

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Date: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 00:46:19 (GMT) From: jumbler Email: None To: Jim Subject: who you looking at? Message:

ummmhh errr I take your point, it's easy to see the absurdity of it all when you've made the break-out,& yes when you're still in you perpetuate the farce, but but but...... I still think we should have compassion for those who are being conned, and haven't the wisdom, from experience, to see through the farce yet. Or don't you forgive weakness in others? Anyway I looked quite cool in my divine sales premie garb, I should get out more............anyone fancy a pint?

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Date: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 00:54:43 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: jumbler Subject: Compassion? Sure. One minute of silence -- now Message:

I'd be lying if I said I sat still the whole minute. I got a little fidgity. Right now I'm reading about Eddie Murphy's multi-transexual and transvestite prostitute scandal. So, if you don't mind, I'm going to go back to my minute of silence here and split it a bit with Eddie. If anyone needs compassion right now, it's Dr. Dolittle. A pint? Where are you, jumbler? And yes, you likely did look quite fetching in your divine sales premie garb. Got any pictures?

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 20:37:03 (GMT) From: Bin Liner Email: None To: Jim Subject: The pied piper never changes his tune ... Message:

.. I agree with your perceptions 100% . His aviation spiel has been increasing over the years , which I take to mean , as he speaks from his own experience , that he's proud of being a pilot . Sure it's an achievement to get whatever ratings he's got from being a dropout at the age of 13 , but,forfucks sake to do it ont back of contributions from people who believed they were bankrolling the lions will lie down with lambs era makes me puke . He is definately taking the fucking piss .

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 19:41:44 (GMT) From: Bob Email: None To: Jim Subject: Drooling on the inside! I just love this! (nt) Message:

nt

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 14:53:51 (GMT) From: Way Email: None To: Everyone Subject: 'unannounced' formal darshan Message:

From the Elan message for April 26: Earlier in the day (the third day of the event, Thursday), while the sun still beat down, people noticed an unannounced event taking place for all who wished to pay their personal respect to Maharaji. For those wanting to take advantage of the opportunity, another will happen today.

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 15:05:31 (GMT) From: Sir Dave Email: None To: Way Subject: This is very dangerous for the Maha Message:

Does he not realise that he can get foot & mouth disease from all those British premies? He'd better bathe in disinfectant for at least an hour afterwards and even then, he might have breathed in the germ or put his hand to his mouth. Better if he wore a gas mask.

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 22:44:05 (GMT) From: janet Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: NAHHHH, DAVE--LET HIM CONTRACT IT. HE DESERVES Message:

THE EXPERIENCE, WOULDNT YOU SAY? if you're gonna treat people like cattle, doncha think poetic justice should be served? i think it would be a salutory (salutations at the lotus feet?) experience for him.

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 22:05:35 (GMT) From: Tony Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: It is a wonder he does'nt use fake feet Message:

or better still have symbolic feet and then he would'nt even have to sit there at all.I guess he gets a feeling of power sitting there with all those people kissing his feet and grinning ear to ear on their way towards him.Probably makes him feel like a star or something.

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 23:01:47 (GMT) From: janet Email: None To: Tony Subject: fake feet--you've hit on something there! Message:

what a fast moneymaking idea for him! have lifelike models made, exact molds, of his feet, in something that feels like real flesh, with the socks on over them,.... oh man--he missed his chance! He shoulda set it up, back in the day, when we were new and naive and knew nothing. He could have made it even more arcane, by veiling himself behind a curtain with nothing but his feet showing, telling us that it was such a private and sacred moment, that we must not look upon his face, in that most powerful of intimate contacts, for we would be destroyed by the power we would see if we ever did! That would have set it up, so that he could supposedly give Darshan anywhere, anytime, by having these replica's of his feet made in latex, and they could be sent out all over the world and kept in secret, and whenever he wanted darshan money, he could tell the local honchos to set a pair out under a curtain, a model, like the Krishna temple devotees have done with their statues of Prabhupad. and tell the devotees that he came to give them Darshan. Even if they found out the feet were only replica's, since he's in everything, he is in the feet too. The christians do it with water and wine at communion. The krishnas do it with their statues. so why not? It's dogma, man. He's in everything. His feet really are there under that curtain when you bow over and kiss or touch them.!!! Right??? tee hee. one good fake out deserves another. he missed his chance, bigtime. then again, who's to stop them from doing exactly this, once he's dead and gone? OKAY-- YOUR HEARD IT FIRST HERE. I HERBY FORMALLY AND PUBLICALLY CLAIM TRADEMARK, AND COPYRIGHT, AND 20% ROYALTIES, FROM ALL INCOME RESULTING FROM USE OF ANY SUCH IDEA OR DEVICE, AS DESCRIBED HEREIN.© AND ™ MAY I HAVE WITNESSES, PLEASE?

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Date: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 07:02:59 (GMT) From: Tony Email: None To: janet Subject: I'll go you halves in the royalties. Message:

How about vibrating feet or chocalate feet(take a bite after you kiss them).What about a tap connected to them from which any number of beverages come forth(maharaji on tap)I'll have a schooner of Victorian bitter with my foot kissing please.The skies the limit with this scam.What about this...Connect to the satelite and get a complimentary pair of latex lotus feet for those cold winters' nights.Impress your premie friends with your own monogrammed lotus feet.Made to fit your own feet....lotus feet slippers,what every devotee needs.I could go on....but.... Cheers Tony

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 18:28:11 (GMT) From: such Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: ah ha, maha, kiss my... haha (nt Message:

nt

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 18:05:14 (GMT) From: bill Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: So, 'mahaparty' means kiss my feet....(again)..nt Message:

dfhjd

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 20:42:49 (GMT) From: Way Email: None To: bill Subject: Satpal also giving darshan in big program Message:

The Manav Dharam website announces in their latest news and updates: the Vaisakhi festival last week, in which Satpal and his entire immediate family gave darshan. The satsang crowds were counted as 100,000.

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Date: Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 16:30:13 (GMT) From: Helen Email: None To: Way Subject: who is that guy and why is he allowed to exist Message:

WHo are that guy and that woman? Are they related to M? Where do all these gurus come from? Jeez, they are everywhere! HELP!

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 20:56:35 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Way Subject: He's renting Amaroo (Hamsterscrew) next month (nt) Message:

ggggggg

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 14:53:16 (GMT) From: Ian Dury Email: None To: Everyone Subject: 'Maha-party' in Amaroo! Message:

From 'Enjoying Life' - Amaroo - Day Three - Tonight was 'maha-party' night in Amaroo. After the skits were over - and mind had been finally defeated in a rapping contest with the heart - Maharaji spoke with both humour and gravity about life and Knowledge. As he talked about thunder and lightning, the skies above flashed and rumbled and began a massive lightshow that lasted the whole evening. He continued the joke begun recently at the Portland event about what he should be called: master, guru, or even you know who. In the skit on the subject, 'executive friend' was suggested, but in the end the panel after weeks of debate had plumped for 'nothing'. Maharaji's take on it was that it was not an issue for those who felt 'gratitude in their hearts'. He talked about the process of Knowledge not being 'blind'. 'This is a process that can only happen when your eyes are wide open... It is a transforming process, in which you question and in which he get the answers.' He coined the expression 'maha-party', and said that it was a party that could not be crashed, but that went on day and night.

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 18:29:00 (GMT) From: Bob Email: None To: Ian Dury and Joe Subject: 'Maha-party' in Amaroo! Message:

Believe me he has no early Alzheimers yet. Really nothing has changed, exept everything is more packaged. He still (jokingly..??) implies, or lets others do this for him, that there is a causal relation between his talk and the weather. The name of his role, or jobdescription is left undecided, after naming all the old labels, like Master, Guru, etc . (-Hey it sounds like none of the above really fits his grand role-maybe he is more than that..) He still implies that he is God, read between the lines.! And yes, the 'great satan' is still the same: The Mind !!! To me the most obvious is the omisions and implications, After all he is talking to insiders. They know what he is talking about! One new insight occured to me: When he is talking about the inner joy and when he gets all blubbery about the inner experience, he is NOT talking about meditation, but about all the unsaid secrets about him being God etc. This guy is as dangerous as ever, and although I don't think he is smart enough to pull it off, his agenda is probably still the same as in '70: Bring knowledge to the world... (which means total world domination! ) PS Hey I know the name for his role... What about FUERHER

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 20:34:38 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Bob Subject: Maharaji and world domination Message:

Ah yes, the big white elephant in the hamster cage -- his unfulfilled promise Peace on Earth. I wonder if, after a particullarly good 'event' Maharaji ever dares broach that subject again ...... 'You know, Marolyn, I've been thinking .....' I mean, what could he say?

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 21:41:39 (GMT) From: Bob Email: None To: Jim Subject: Maharaji and world domination Message:

He can't say nothing. We can rub his past and his secrets in his face everywhere he goes and tries to lure people. It can happen, it happened before: around '86 (?) he suddenly came off the stage, allowing small scale Q and A sessions with (ex-) premies. Attendance had reached an all time low. But who would not want to talk to their former master, who now humbly presented himself as just a teacher. He started to do knowledge reviews himself, I went to one in N. France. Anyway, every meeting had a higher turnout and within months he was back on the stage, and lots of us were back in the fold. Every meeting was taped and watched in local communities. A few months later an Indian man (it might have been this Jagdeo) traveled in Europe for local meetings for fundraising a new jet for m. m. somehow always screws up halfway, but he does have some hidden talents up his sleeve, and he is an opportunist. The ex premie site can really do a lot of good by exposing him. But don't think he is dead before he is dead! knowledge, not Knowledge , dispels all darkness...

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 15:52:26 (GMT) From: Joe Email: None To: Ian Dury Subject: Hey, I checked an Ian ISN'T joking! Message:

'Maha-Party????' 'mind had finally been defeated????!!!' 'master, guru or you know who???!!!!' His name isn't an issues for people with 'gratitude in their hearts???!!' The 'maha-party' could be 'crashed??!!' I guess nothing should shock me anymore, but I think Maharaji as finally, and completely, lost every screw he ever had. Can you guys believe this? And he's still having people line up and kiss his feet. Either he lacks all his screws, or he really has written off the Western World as a source of new cult-recruits and has decided to cultivate the truly fanatic element of the cult only.

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 18:23:46 (GMT) From: suchabanana Email: None To: Joe Subject: No,they're making these jokes / as reaction to EPO Message:

Such joking references i.e. the term 'Maha' are most usually found here [e.g. the Mahamantra, or 'hey, the Maha just told these guys...'], as are the recurring discussions surrounding issues pertaining to the guru/master concept and title, the maha cult-speak, and head/heart dogma and dilemmas, etc. They are simply employing the mechanism of deflecting criticism by invoking humour themselves in front of the diehard-faithful-in-denial -- in a feeble attempt to steal the thunder. hahaha However, it won't work -- sure sign of desperation in the org and epidemic panic attack in the ranks -- as the truth unfolds. Peace and lentils,

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 18:02:57 (GMT) From: Mr. Mind Email: None To: Joe Subject: Positive and Negative reinforcement Message:

Those who are there will brag about it in that disgustingly premie way..oh so humble. They will tend to come back next time. Some of those not there will feel like they missed out and will want to AMAROOOO next time. I don't think he's cared about new cult recruitment for a long time. He just uses it as a tool to hold on to his current prisoners. Probably, kissing his foot is one or two on my list of heebie jeebie thoughts. Telling others about him is the other.

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 18:06:31 (GMT) From: bill Email: None To: Mr. Mind Subject: Drinking his feet water rates up there too...nt Message:

asdgdas

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 18:36:01 (GMT) From: Mr. Mind Email: None To: bill Subject: Thanks ,Bill---heebie jeebie #3...nt Message:

asdf

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 17:55:08 (GMT) From: bill--executive friend? Email: None To: Joe Subject: of elan vital? rats out of the bag. He IS EV...nt Message:

sadfsda

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 12:20:54 (GMT) From: Bob Email: None To: Everyone Subject: memorial Message:

Since I started visiting and posting here 4 days ago, a flood of emotions and memories has been welling up. With this I will follow my feelings. Yesterday on my way to work I suddenly remembered my dearest friends, fellow ashrampremies, in '72-'75. We were in the 'lower class', spaced-out,or otherwise troubled or troublesome. Developed a deep bond. One of us got hold of a pinkish shirt and shaved his head like a mahatma one day. All the 'big shots' got terribly upset! In '75, the ashrams streamlined, cut the fat, and all of us were put on the street. I was lucky to get into a premiehouse and ease off slowly, but my friends sunk like bricks into heroinaddiction. I had to lose touch (survival). I don't think they are alive anymore. Stupid? yes, but these were great people, intelligent, creative, spiritual. the best friends I ever had. I just want to post this to honour them . Could this all have gone different?

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 17:13:03 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: Bob Subject: It's not over yet Bob. Message:

Some of my closest friends became heroin addicts in the 70s Bob. They came through it and are getting on with life. Lots of people get off- lots die too, and that's sad. But maybe some of your friends got through it OK. Who were they? Maybe someone knows what happened to them. Anth, Lost and Found.

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 16:48:39 (GMT) From: Babs Email: ralphie@ralphiscafe.com To: Bob Subject: From my heart to yours Message:

Do you remember 'Howl' by Allen Ginsberg? 'I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness, stasrving, hysterical, naked, dragging themselves through the negro streets at dawn looking for an angry fix, angelheaded hipsters burning for the ancient heavenly connection to the starry dynamo in the machinery of night...' I was living in the ashram in 1972-75, and I kept a journal. In it I wrote: 'One of the things that freaks me out is the contempt for the mind that all premies express. Sometimes it looks like Maharaj Ji has gathered all the best minds of a whole generation and stoppered them up in a bottle where they can neither function nor reproduce. Peace, but at such a price... He's gathered all the rebels and taught their angry tongues to drink nectar; but what if there IS something to rebel against? What if...' So, welcome to the Forum, Bob. I just got here a few months ago myself. There are lots of people here who share your anger and pain. Congratulations on surviving. You're right; not everybody did. Even if you walked away from Maharajism twenty years ago, there are probably still some issues to resolve. This is a great place to do it. Only another 'ex' can really understand what you've been through. May we all be completely healed. Love, Barbara Johnson

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 17:06:41 (GMT) From: Francesca Email: None To: Babs and Bob Subject: Kudos to Babs and Bob, you've said a lot here Message:

I'm with you both all the way! Here's the place to let it hang. ==f

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 12:57:53 (GMT) From: Mercedes Email: None To: Bob Subject: memorial Message:

Hi Bob, I don't know whether it could have gone different, what I know is that the surge of feelings is normal. Just let them be it is good to grieve. Take care, Mercedes

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 09:07:38 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Everyone Subject: One more thing about the Fr magazine! Message:

There is nothing new for the readers of this website and this forum to discover in this magazine. What's interesting is that it's an independent study, well written, and bringing the main issues to light. No special revelation: what makes a difference is that it's printed, backed up by the well known editor, and available from any bookstore ! Of course it's only 44 pages, and they can't have what's in the 100s of pages available on EPO. You might even be disapointed (I've been) ! But the main issues are covered.

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Date: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 03:42:56 (GMT) From: la-ex Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: JM-can we support the magazine by any... Message:

letters, phone calls or e-mails, thanking them for the article? Telling them that it has been very helpful for many people. It might help with possible subsequent articles, etc.

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Date: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 07:07:06 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: la-ex Subject: Why asking ME ?? (nt) Message:

ccc

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 11:09:25 (GMT) From: E. Windsor Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: It sets a significant precident Message:

Because, as you say, it demonstrates that this type of thorough investigatve journalism into the cult is possible. It will also be a valuable resource for other journalists in the future. Combat is a major breakthrough which deserves an intelligent discussion here and an off-line coordinated global effort to enhance the impact of the work done in France. We need to discuss effective strategies which enhance Combat's impact on the English-speaking world. This is the most important dent ever made into the cult today. If we have an agenda here, then surely it is Combat (pun intended).

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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 23:58:10 (GMT) From: F arti. Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Amaroo sabotage. Message:

I heard yesterday that someone painted ANTICHRIST on one of the roads just outside Amaroo.I doubt it was an ex premie,sounds more like a born again christian.

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