Forum V: Archive
Compiled: Wed, May 02, 2001 at 22:46:04 (GMT)
From: Apr 21, 2001 To: Apr 30, 2001 Page: 2 Of: 5


Disculta -:- Outa here -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 21:16:17 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- I don't get it -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 17:01:08 (GMT)
__ __ Nigel -:- re. 'Know it All' -:- Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 16:30:46 (GMT)
__ __ Katie H -:- I think it was supposed to be funny -:- Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 13:18:52 (GMT)
__ __ Francesca -:- But what about those with multiple -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 17:13:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ Cynthia -:- Jim..of course I can laugh about tragic things... -:- Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 15:04:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Respect, Cynthia -:- Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 18:03:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Thanks, Jim -:- Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 18:51:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Francesca -:- see my post to you below (whoa, whoa) n/t -:- Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 19:29:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ Cynthia -:- Hey, Knock off Making Fun of MPD folks! -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 19:36:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Francesca -:- Whoa, whoa, whoa -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 20:20:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Sorry, Cynth, but it IS funny -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 19:48:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ janet -:- murder is funny? dissociation is funny? -:- Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 01:06:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Stop, Janet, before you REALLY sound foolish -:- Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 01:19:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ janet -:- hey i laugh aloud at things too. but some things -:- Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 02:16:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- You're right -- some things AREN'T funny -:- Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 02:23:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ bill -:- Jorge says it' yeheshua.....nt -:- Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 01:32:30 (GMT)
__ JohnT -:- See you later -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 13:09:38 (GMT)
__ salam -:- Well, you know what to say to jim -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 08:27:31 (GMT)
__ Sir Dave -:- This is darlingdiscrimintation -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 23:41:52 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- Arrest that woman! -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 22:28:49 (GMT)
__ __ janet -:- a rest is exactly what she is getting, so don't -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 01:37:12 (GMT)
__ __ JHB -:- Maybe she needs some therapy? -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 22:39:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ PatC -:- Latvia or Hawaii? -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 23:17:23 (GMT)

Jim -:- The world just got stranger: Send in the Clowns -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 17:31:08 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- Alright, here they are: The Clowns! -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 18:20:23 (GMT)
__ __ G -:- Roll over Beethoven ??? -:- Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 18:52:13 (GMT)
__ __ bill -:- A Larkin resonse -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 07:52:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ bill -:- A John T response -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 08:12:59 (GMT)
__ __ JHB -:- Does Amaroo have an Internet Cafe? -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 18:33:43 (GMT)
__ JHB -:- They must have been reading here -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 18:18:51 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- was that the panto with the premie cavemen? -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 18:21:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ JHB -:- was that the panto with the premie cavemen? -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 18:31:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ PatC -:- The cavemen made a brief appearance -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 18:43:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ I'm getting Darhan in the -:- morning, ding dong the bells are gonna shine we're -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 18:53:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ He lies? Er, do little. -:- i guess you were getting dar hang of it -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 19:31:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ I lurk the ex site -:- every morning -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 19:49:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Pick a name and give us some more poetry -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 20:11:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ jumbler -:- singh sin song -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 20:55:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Yes, and how about Stevie Wonder? -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 23:25:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ janet -:- Yes,how BOUT Stevie Wonder? -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 01:55:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- I didn't get that, Janet -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 01:59:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ janet -:- someone send jim these two songs, please. -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 03:19:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- we are amazed but not amused -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 16:25:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- Stevie Wonder - lyrics in full -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 18:21:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Bin Liner -:- Yes , that old mindset , good recollection ... -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 00:53:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Hey, Mr Macrame-head was good for post-arti -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 23:37:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- I wish I'd been there when you were -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 23:20:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ jumbler -:- I wish I'd been there when you were -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 23:22:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Really? -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 19:54:39 (GMT)

Carl -:- Gratitude to this Forum and its participants -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 16:27:29 (GMT)
__ Richard -:- Welcome Carl and thanks for the -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 18:45:36 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- Hi Carl -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 20:29:22 (GMT)
__ __ Nigel -:- bold and italics -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 20:37:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ AJW -:- bold and italics -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 16:51:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ janet -:- bold and italics -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 02:25:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ AJW -:- OK let's try again -:- Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 01:09:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ janet -:- bold and italics-try another way -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 02:32:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ janet -:- bold and italics-try another way-1 more sneak -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 02:47:11 (GMT)
__ __ AJW -:- PS Carl, I enjoyed your post. Thanks. (nt) -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 20:30:57 (GMT)
__ Nigel -:- Thanks from me, too... -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 18:46:01 (GMT)
__ PatC -:- Welcome, Carl, I really enjoyed your first post -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 18:12:04 (GMT)
__ Francesca -:- Did you play the trombone? -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 17:10:58 (GMT)
__ la-ex -:- Thanks and welcome Carl. a question for you... -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 16:37:26 (GMT)
__ __ Carl -:- Thanks and welcome Carl. a question for you... -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 19:47:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ JHB -:- *** Many Questions Arise, but Best Of!! *** -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 22:34:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- Excellent post, hi, nice to meet you, but ........ -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 20:15:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Carl -:- Excellent post, hi, nice to meet you, but ........ -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 21:59:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Good ideas and all but you didn't answer my q's -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 23:17:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Carl -:- will try to answer: -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 12:35:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Thanks so much, Carl -- really 'enlightening' -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 16:23:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- Informed, intellectually stimulating and erudite?? -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 16:05:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Francesca -:- Informed, intellectually stimulating and erudite?? -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 17:31:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- Informed, intellectually stimulating and erudite?? -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 21:37:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Jim, I did know some Satpalians until 85 and they -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 01:17:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ janet -:- would that have been Jimmie LoDato and family? -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 03:14:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- No, but the guy I knew was also a self-made -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 04:21:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ Francesca -:- You're the first poster to back me up -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 20:04:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ suchabanana -:- How's my ol' buddy Dick Parke? still with April? -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 03:23:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Bob -:- very impressive , nt -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 20:52:07 (GMT)
__ __ Way -:- Yes, thanks -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 16:57:18 (GMT)
__ __ bob -:- Thanks and welcome Carl. a question for you... -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 16:54:37 (GMT)

bob -:- deniability and rumors -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 14:31:17 (GMT)
__ Francesca -:- Hope you'll stick around -:- Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 18:45:55 (GMT)
__ Richard -:- Welcome Bob -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 18:17:08 (GMT)
__ Pat Conlon -:- Hi bob, terrific analyisis -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 18:01:15 (GMT)
__ la-ex -:- welcome, Bob! Good insights into cult thinking.nt -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 16:01:39 (GMT)

Jean-Michel -:- Another Aussi premie website! -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 13:09:56 (GMT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- No malicious intention in my post -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 21:04:18 (GMT)
__ toby -:- look she answered my email -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 10:44:36 (GMT)
__ Sir Dave -:- Another fucking knowall -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 02:02:05 (GMT)
__ __ Mr. Mind -:- Marketing=trolling for fish/new age name -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 11:01:59 (GMT)
__ JHB -:- Is she still a premie or is she a guru? -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 18:29:21 (GMT)
__ __ Hal -:- Is she still a premie or is she a guru? -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 07:18:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ toby -:- Is she still a premie or is she a guru? -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 10:59:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Mr. Mind -:- Is she still a premie or is she a guru? -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 11:10:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ JHB -:- Maybe this is for me! -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 09:14:54 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- Hey, check out her quotes! Pure m -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 02:06:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ PatC -:- Pure New Age. Half my customers talk like that -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 04:23:30 (GMT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- More on Alice/Alicia -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 14:37:17 (GMT)
__ __ Roger eDrek -:- We could get pre-paid phone coaching for Jim -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 00:26:43 (GMT)

Jean-Michel -:- What's important about the French magazine IMO -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 08:01:42 (GMT)
__ salam -:- What's important about the French magazine IMO -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 08:29:24 (GMT)
__ PatC -:- Yes, it is a coup, J-M -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 01:23:16 (GMT)
__ La-ex -:- great work,JM...Some important questions... -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 16:30:31 (GMT)
__ __ Jean-Michel -:- great work,JM...Some important questions...OK -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 17:04:48 (GMT)
__ __ Monmot -:- Kudos, J-M...Many thanks.......(nt) -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 16:59:52 (GMT)
__ Katie H -:- You deserve personal thanks, too, J-M -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 13:11:51 (GMT)
__ __ Jean-Michel -:- Thank you Katie -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 13:42:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- I can't wait to read it -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 17:48:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ Katie -:- Real investigative journalism! -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 14:05:14 (GMT)
__ Sir Dave -:- Where? -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 10:26:38 (GMT)
__ __ Jean-Michel -:- What did you smoke? -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 10:35:38 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- Agree with every last word -- thanks so much! (nt) -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 10:03:29 (GMT)
__ __ bob -:- Anglais sil vous plait -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 13:06:22 (GMT)

Roy -:- Marilyn's dad ?? -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 01:58:21 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- Marilyn's dad ?? -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 10:30:57 (GMT)
__ __ Mr. Mind -:- How I perverted my Service 'opportunity' -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 11:23:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ G -:- I remember a story about him -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 16:09:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Gail -:- Marolyn's Father is caught eating fish -:- Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 19:32:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- Gail good to see you:-) (ot) -:- Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 21:13:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- The ''Freaking Out'' Story... -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 18:44:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Tony -:- I think they now call it_'they've stopped -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 23:41:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- VERY funny, Tony -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 05:45:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Tony -:- Hey Jim,I heard the impersonations were very -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 06:06:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Aha! The old Post-Modern Cult Defense Mechanism! -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 06:21:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ such -:- they're probably stealin' our comedy material! (nt -:- Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 06:49:15 (GMT)

Elan Vital -:- Elan Vital Speaks French -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 00:05:07 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- You really should have a website for all these -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 00:16:18 (GMT)
__ __ Elan Vital -:- The Elan Vital Website -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 01:07:25 (GMT)

Nigel -:- Knowledge as 'revealed' is just a recipe... -:- Tues, Apr 24, 2001 at 23:33:51 (GMT)
__ Moldy Warp -:- Well - being rather fond of chefs myself -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 12:26:45 (GMT)
__ __ PatC -:- I know one chef who will fatten you up in no time -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 18:46:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ Moldy Warp -:- I know one chef who will fatten you up in no time -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 18:53:46 (GMT)

cq -:- 'extemporary inspiration at its most profound' - -:- Tues, Apr 24, 2001 at 17:21:44 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- That figures -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 12:18:08 (GMT)
__ Bryn -:- 'extemporary inspiration at its most profound' - -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 11:04:29 (GMT)
__ Gerry -:- The core expression of this quote: -:- Tues, Apr 24, 2001 at 19:23:37 (GMT)
__ jondon -:- Just say Know -:- Tues, Apr 24, 2001 at 19:16:02 (GMT)
__ __ Nigel -:- Hmm, does M use cocaine? -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 14:26:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ PatC -:- Cocaine - the ego-tripping drug -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 19:02:21 (GMT)
__ kev -:- 'extemporary inspiration at its most profound' - -:- Tues, Apr 24, 2001 at 18:17:33 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- actually he says we don't exist ... -:- Tues, Apr 24, 2001 at 18:39:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ kev -:- actually he says we don't exist ... -:- Tues, Apr 24, 2001 at 21:48:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ PatC -:- Brain farts, mind burps or cerebral diarrhoea? -:- Tues, Apr 24, 2001 at 19:11:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Gregg -:- Wm. Burroughs (nuthin to do wit Rev. Moonbeam) -:- Tues, Apr 24, 2001 at 19:28:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ cq -:- Brain farts, mind burps or cerebral diarrhoea? -:- Tues, Apr 24, 2001 at 19:27:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- great joke, cq -- still laughing (nt) -:- Tues, Apr 24, 2001 at 23:55:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Naked Lunch at the Pavillion... -:- Tues, Apr 24, 2001 at 23:26:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Naked Lunch at the Pavillion... -:- Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 00:00:53 (GMT)


Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 21:16:17 (GMT)
From: Disculta
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Outa here
Message:
Jim has lodged a legal suit with the FA about my incredibly abusive practice of switching between my two names. I want to sincerely apologize to all those whom I have hurt with this pernicious practice.

I'm outa here for a while, and when I return, I will post as Disculta. Most of you know my real name, but since in my post below about my dad, I found a real need for anonymity, and since apparently I can't have it both ways, I'm going to go for the relatively anonymous route.

Love to all and bye bye,

Disculta (Darling)

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 17:01:08 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: I don't get it
Message:
Your post about your dad was just to the effect that you noticed over time that you unconsciously gravitated towards male authority figures that look like him. And for THAT you need to hide your identity?

For the record, I think most of the stuff you say here is great. And even what's not, stuff I think is too new age or whatever, so what? That's you. I'm different. Some times we might or might not discuss the differences. No biggie, I've always thought. So it's decidedly unfair for you to characterizse me as someone persecuting you or anything. But I guess that was a cheap shot you couldn't resist, huh?

Whoever-you-are, you must recognize that there's a problem with people posting under multiple aliases. I don't think it's fair when 'Know it All' does it and I didn't think it was fair when you did. I mean, how weird, if you think of it, for there to be one thread where someone unaware of the truth would see you posting under both names. They'd think that you were actually two different people, wouldn't they? Well, that IS to be discouraged, don't you think?

If you have a serious defence of that practise you sure didn't advance it in your sarcastic 'victim' post above. Instead, you just encouraged people like Salam to do something to my nose.

Maybe you've got some special reason for which you have to compromise your values a bit. Maybe you're locked into circumstances in which you just can't afford to be known as an ex, if you can help it. Fine, if that's the case. But it's bullshit to blame me then for all of that. You should know better.

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Date: Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 16:30:46 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: re. 'Know it All'
Message:
I agree with your general point on second-alias posting, Jim, but not with regard to 'Know It All'. I know who Know It All is. Perhaps you do too. If so, you might know why he or she is anonymous for certain posts but not for others. Well I don't actually know for sure what the reason is, but his or her posts here often reveal privileged info regarding cult doings for which it is better EV didn't discover the poster's identity. At least that's my impression.

(Ditto 'Cultbuster UK' - another second alias poster and thorn in EV's side.)

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Date: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 13:18:52 (GMT)
From: Katie H
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I think it was supposed to be funny
Message:
Jim (and others),
I have corresponded with Katie D, and she can be very witty - wickedly so at time :). People who are usually warm and supportive can also be ironic, and EVEN MAKE JOKES...although this seems to be hard for people here to grasp at times. Sheesh - talk about getting stuck in personas!

I won't comment about the anonymity issue in that particular post - it sounds quite personal to me, and is probably not something easily understood by other people.

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 17:13:30 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: But what about those with multiple
Message:
personality disorder?? The Maha did it to me. Honest. One one-a me could be a good premie. The other ones had to do their evil deeds in the dark.

Just kidding. Since I can't tell what she's getting at either, but maybe it was meant to be a joke. I've had an iron deficiency and missed your irony more than once!

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Date: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 15:04:16 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Jim..of course I can laugh about tragic things...
Message:
Jim,

I often laugh at myself. I laugh at the fact that I ended up in a cult. I laugh about my plans to dance on my father's grave when he dies (I can't wait). I laugh about the absurdity that Maharaji still persists in his lying game. I also laugh about DID, but not here, because very often, when someone posts under more than one name (trolls), MPD or DID comes up and it shows ignorance of the disorder by making jokes. If you think someone with DID would purposely post under different or alternate parts you are wrong. The severe headaches that occur from switching alone would be a reason not to do it. The process of healing is to learn not to dissociate or switch. Anyone who would do this is only harming themselves--that's really not funny. Plus, it would be pretty difficult for anyone here to spot a person with DID--troll or not.

However, I am very sensitive about people making jokes about mental illnesses because there is such a stigma around them. So many people suffer in silence with different labels or diagnoses. DID, Dissociative Identity Disorder, is the correct term for MPD. It is at the far end of a long spectrum of dissociative disorders.

Everyone dissociates but not to the degree of developing DID--and DID occurs much more frequently than the general public believes. Studies recently done show that child abuse isn't the only cause of DID. Children who are in the midst of war develop DID because of the horrific things they witness and endure, such as in Croatia and Bosnia. That's not funny to me at all.

Most people who have it must live in silence, i.e., cannot disclose the fact because 1) it's an emotional/mental disorder, and is a sure way to become ostracized from one's community; 2) the existence of the disorder is still disputed; and 3)DID is often confused with schizophrenia, which is an organic disease, completely different from DID, while DID is the most curable of emotional disorders if a person is willing to go through the healing process.

Yes, I can laugh about DID and have, but only with those who have it, and know what they are laughing about. The situation is similar to F5. Premies come here and can't see the humor of poking fun at m. Exes come here, because we understand without too much explanation, exactly what we all went through--the ''in jokes,'' which to us are very, very funny!

To joke out of ignorance is cruel. To joke with an understanding of a mental illness can be very funny.

Okay, I'll shut up about it from now on. Next time I see a post mentioning DID or MPD, I'll ignore it. It's too much of a trigger for me and I'll just stay out of it because I surely don't want to censor anyone.

As far as Disculta/Katie D. is concerned, I see no problem there, but I don't own the forum and it's up to the FAs to decide.

Cynthia

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Date: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 18:03:57 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Respect, Cynthia
Message:
Cynthia,

I respect you and definitely wouldn't want to hurt or offend you in any way. But, I think we have to disagree a bit here. You say:

Yes, I can laugh about DID and have, but only with those who have it, and know what they are laughing about. The situation is similar to F5. Premies come here and can't see the humor of poking fun at m. Exes come here, because we understand without too much explanation, exactly what we all went through--the ''in jokes,'' which to us are very, very funny!

First, whether or not the premies can see it, we still enjoy and share a lot of humour at m AND their expense. Sorry, guys, but that's the way it is. Personally, I don't give a damn if whoever's sending up the cult and its members is/was ever a premie. It's funny no matter who targets it. Multiple personalities and all that entails are like that as well. Something perverse in the human condition that has all sorts of weird, sometimes funny, sometimes tragic, sometimes in between, aspects from any perspective.

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Date: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 18:51:27 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Thanks, Jim
Message:
Jim,

I completely agree. It's a topic which triggers me, that's all. Most times I can laugh; yesterday, I got pissed.

Such is life as an imperfect human (which I like being, btw).

I've gotta catch up on the Amaroo threads....he's giving big ''D'' Darshan, eh? I said he would. From what I've gleaned so far, the event has become a real dog and pony show--now that's something I can sit back, relax, observe, and really have some good laughs about! Playing a keyboard, WOW!!!

Love,
Cynthia

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Date: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 19:29:40 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: see my post to you below (whoa, whoa) n/t
Message:
n/t
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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 19:36:16 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: Hey, Knock off Making Fun of MPD folks!
Message:
I'm tired of this. Truly tired. You want to perpetuate a joke about a mental illness go elsewhere. Do you make fun of people with cancer, MS, or any PHYSICAL dis-ease? Anyone who has MPD or DID must always post with one name. Period. Anyone else here want to take me on with this subject? Come on! I'm sick of this shit.

Katie D. Disculta, I didn't know this was going on regarding your posts. I've never thought that you've deceived anyone. Besides, Jim is only one person here, and doesn't govern this forum.

I hope after a rest you come back. I love your posts and insights into healing from the dreadful boomraji!

Much love,
Cynthia

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 20:20:57 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Whoa, whoa, whoa
Message:
Cynthia,

It was not meant to insult anyone and M certainly did give us split personalities. I don't know of anyone who could have bought into that crap hook, line, and sinker with EVERY particle of their being.

I don't know if you were posting back then, but Pat C had about 4 names. He posted under 2 or 3 aliases before he came out. And they all are, in one sense, parts of his personality. Of course he (and possibly the FA) decided he should stick with one.

As far as Disculta using two names, I don't really care, because both of them are her. However it's probably a good policy NOT to do that, but I agree that it's not worth policing unless it gets abusive. And I really think that Disculta/Katie D. was just being tongue-in-cheek re Jim.

And of course, no matter how it was intended, if I did insult you I'm sorry. Much love, Be well,
Francesca

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 19:48:28 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Sorry, Cynth, but it IS funny
Message:
Cynth,

There are some truly strange and horrible things that happen to people. That doesn't mean they're not funny though. That goes for physical and mental conditions as well. Sometimes they're as funny as they are tragic and that's just life. You can 'tsk tsk' all you want but, I'm sorry, when more than one person starts living out of the same body, it's funny. It's the EPITOME of funny, if you think about it. And yes, I believe there's more than enough room for both as much understanding or support as one could possibly muster for someone who either is suffering or even just thinks they're suffering from such a disorder AND for laughing about the syndrome in the abstract. In other words, I don't believe that just because one can point to the tragic side of something, the comic's necessarily vanquished.

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Date: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 01:06:52 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: murder is funny? dissociation is funny?
Message:
lets take two well known cases of MPD. Ross Carlson and the book/movie 'When Rabbit Howls'.

neither was funny in the remotest.
Ross Carlson killed two people he did'nt remember killing. so much so he came back that afternoon to mow their lawn and was puzzled when it was already cut when he got there.
Ross spent years getting shuttled around the colorado penal and mental system while entrenched arguments raged on both sides as to whether he was a criminal or insane, whether he should be tried as a cogent individual or sealed away as a hopeless case, or treated until his personalities reintegrated,, and then tried as a whole individual.

His personalities were terrifying to watch change places on camera. He was kept under steel restraints at all times, lest his savage and uncontrollable personality 'Black', surface in the midst of a session while the doctor was conversing with one of the other seven. The seven sides knew of each other, but distantly, like seven people unwillingly sealed inside a house together and trapped with company they wouldn't keep if free.

then theres the case of traci lords(?), the book and movie made from it, titled 'when rabbit howls'. It was so named because rabbits are mute. they have no organs for making vocalization. the only time they produce a sound is if in torturous pain unto death, and then what comes out is an unearthly howl born of the strain of their struggle to escape. or die.
traci was stepfathered at a young age by a brutal country ignoramus who tortured tracy sexually out in the shed, and also her pet rabbits, forcing her to watch him mutilate them alive. he once threw her into a dry well full of live snakes as punishment for telling anyne about the things he did.
her psyche shattered into a series of personalities that were unaware of one another. One smoked, another didn't. one couldnt see without glasses, the others had 20-20 vision. all of them ,regardless of which was at the fore, lived in missing time, where they had zero recollection or knowledge of what had happened since the last time they had been the one in charge. no matter who was operating, her sense of time was always missing and covering for the times she wasnt aware of.

get the book to know the rest of the story. I saw her live on tv. the personalities were real.

now--if you still think MPD is funny, i can introduce you to someone in one of my chat rooms who lives it. lets see how funny it is for him. he lives miles out in the woods alone so that he won't have problems with neighbors and society and himself altering in character and not knowing what happened while he was not the one in command, which would confuse the neighbors,, baffle them, and make it exhausting for him to try to straighten out and explain all the various events that would occur because of it.

yeah-- ha ha. mental illness is hilarious.
you assholes never left the playground, did you?

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Date: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 01:19:46 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Stop, Janet, before you REALLY sound foolish
Message:
So it's 'asshole' now, huh? Fine.

Listen, Janet, I'm sure that you could find at least one tragic situation regarding just about anything, if you wanted to. That doesn't mean that those 'anythings' aren't still, in general, funny. Was I laughing at Ms. Lords or Mr. Carlson's sad stories in particular? No, of course not. If I were, then, and only then, might you have a point. But I wasn't and you're just losing it for nothing.

Don't you see? Take any situation we find humour in. I'm sure you could find some real life scenario in which the humour gives way to something much bleaker. But that's not to say that the humour was false or unfair to begin with. It's just a matter of perspective. 'Life of Brian' was funny. That's not to say I think crucifying Jesus (sorry, Bill, Yeshua) was. Get it?

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Date: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 02:16:48 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: hey i laugh aloud at things too. but some things
Message:
arent funny when you know what they are.
i never could share the bully on the playground's sense of humor. slapstick doesn't reach me either. nor the benny hill flavor.

i see tremndous amusement in the 'Ally McBeal' series. oops--lawyers in love. that was unintentional. wasnt meaning to zero in on your profession, Jim.
I can be moved to guffaws by Dave
Barry, at times. Robin Williams...Jay Leno, when he's hot. Letterman kept me sane thru the 80's.
there was a british farce ensemble show called 'are you being served?' that i loved.

and i confess that i did find some of maharaji's observations funny, as well.

but my sense of humor isn't easy. i see the absurdity in the Simpsons, but i never laughed as a kid at cartoons or the 3 stooges and their ilk, or at comic books and MAD magazine, either.
so sue me.

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Date: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 02:23:41 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: You're right -- some things AREN'T funny
Message:
Yes, Janet, some things aren't funny. Traci Lords' story for instance, that's not funny. At least not the way you told it. But the very idea of MPD is and always will be. Just like there's nothing funny about people being trapped in a cult, I guess. That's not particularly funny in some perspectives but, in others, its hilarious. Room for both attitudes, I think.
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Date: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 01:32:30 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Jorge says it' yeheshua.....nt
Message:
asdg
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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 13:09:38 (GMT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: See you later
Message:
Dear Disculta,

Before I ever showed up her (anonymously) I wrote to two notable ex-premies giving my full details. One was the unique Jim Heller; and the other was yourself. I've no idea how I got your email - possibly from a mailing about your work.

Jim was just asking. A number of people do use more than one identity, but they are usually for spoofing nom-de-plumes, if you will. I believe he feels strongly that the forum would be more effective in some ways, and safer, if there were no anonymity here. And I'm sure that's right.

But other people are also right to feel concerned for the trembling virgins on the threshold. That first post is hard to make and insisting on public disclosure of identities would make it even harder. Some people might never have gotten engaged with the forum if they had to reveal their full identity from the outset.

No bad thing in the case of ^H^H^H^H^H Catweasel, of course. But others need the space to grow away from the Cult of God the Spiritual Onanist.

Anyway, Disculta or KD, I don't read much here anymore - no time. But I seek out your posts. I've particularly liked some of your off-the-cuff remarks ('marijuana appeals to frozen grief; cocaine to unfelt anger' comes to mind)

Later, then.

JohnT
- never a premie

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 08:27:31 (GMT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: Well, you know what to say to jim
Message:
Stick it up your nose.(that's his nose)
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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 23:41:52 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: This is darlingdiscrimintation
Message:
I am one of the worst perpetrators of the crime of using different names and should be severely punished with whips, clamps and other instruments of torture.

An email to you is 'in the post'.

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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 22:28:49 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: Arrest that woman!
Message:
Come now, whoever-you-are, I was merely asking. You know that.
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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 01:37:12 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: a rest is exactly what she is getting, so don't
Message:
worry your pretty little head about it, now.
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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 22:39:51 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Maybe she needs some therapy?
Message:
I believe it helps people relax.

John the very relaxed in the latvian countryside.

PS. Have I ever told anyone just how idyllic it is here?

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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 23:17:23 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Latvia or Hawaii?
Message:
Bon voyage, Disculta. Enjoy your Hawaiian sunshine and sea. Sorry you aren't going to keep your real name. I know I couldn't handle an alias myself. Too discombobulating for this simple-minded banana-boy from the veld - what with Thelma the Thunderstealing Bitch running around in my head with a dozen other characters from my writings. But whatever you are comfortable with. Lots of love.
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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 17:31:08 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: The world just got stranger: Send in the Clowns
Message:
Today's EV newsletter special from Amaroo has some typically bizarre satsang in it. Here, look:

'What's wrong with being simple? Can we investigate what simplicity offers. We know how to create doubt. What does it take to create doubt. Nothing. All you have to do is make a comment. One little comment creates that. Yet you don't have to be in doubt. Clarity has something to offer to you. This life may not have an instruction manual, this is true. But that does not mean that there are not favorite implants in this existence that bias you a certain way. To be clear is more beautiful than to be confused. To be in clarity is more beautiful that to be in doubt.

I talk to aspirants, and I tell them 'keep listening, keep growing' - it's a very beautiful process for them. It's not a doctrine. Knowledge breaks traditions. In India they have the caste system. They have been trying to get rid of it. Very strongly they are trying to get rid of it. And in the caste system, those people that work with leather are considered one of the very lower castes. And who is Mira's master? Guess. He worked with leather. How can this be? Nobody understands it. There she is, totally in love and the world says she is mad. And Mira writes to herself. 'The world says I am mad. But I am not mad. I am in love. I am in love with that beauty, the perfection that touches my heart.'

Why can't we all, in this life, be in love with that perfection? Why can't we also in our life have that passion? Passion for this heart. Passion to be alive. It doesn't matter how old we are or how young we are, what our situation is, where we live or what we do. In the world of Knowledge, nobody judges you based on that. Well, let me take that back. The Master doesn't.

and:

The world will continue to change. I’m sure things will get better and better, and different and more incredible. All these big video cameras will become small. There will be faster media. High bandwidths for everything. We still won’t know what we are communicating about, but we will be communicating. What are we saying? You see, it’s not what is on the outside. That can only reflect what is on the inside. And what is on the inside? Unless you are in touch with it, it does not matter what you have accomplished, or what you do. It carries no meaning.

To me the greatest gift you can truly have is to be alive, and a greater gift still is to recognize that. Because without recognizing it, it’s like writing an essay in computer, and the directory never got written. Was the effort made? Yes. Does it exist? No. it’s gone.

Some people are much like that document in a computer. Saving never happened. The button ‘save’ was never hit. It’s gone. But to recognize is beautiful. Then you know. Then you understand. That’s when gratitude begins. That’s why we come to celebrate. We need to celebrate.

but the best part of all is the description of yesterday's gong show. I'm sorry this is so, so, so so SO fucking pathetic. Really, can you just imagine?:

I guess it was inevitable

'I guess it was inevitable,' were Maharaji’s words as he came on stage after his presentation to sit at the keyboard in shirtsleeves and play two of his own compositions.Inevitable maybe, but no less of a delightful surprise for that, as sounds that one musical listener suggested were a blend of Beethoven and Jean-Michel Jarre floated through the star-filled sky.

It was not the only unexpected moment during the evening of the second day of Amaroo 2001. Maharaji was preceded on the stage by a gently humorous speaker, who was followed by an impersonator who delighted the audiences with a series of uncanny impressions. Jack Nicholson advised people in his most abrasive manner to get to grips with what is important in life. Marlon Brando in Godfather mode welcomed so many families from around the world, whilst Woody Allen was in typical angst as he bemoaned the difficulty of understanding Kabir. Bob Dylan circa 1966 followed with an electric rock song which seemed to be about a house from hell (not a good place to dwell).

As the laughter faded, Maharaji took the mike and enthralled the capacity crowd with his own unique message of the heart.

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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 18:20:23 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Alright, here they are: The Clowns!
Message:
The wonder of Amaroo

I am in a wonderful land.
Happiness and smiling faces everywhere.
The beauty of the land joins with the joy.
Precious opportunity to listen and learn more.
Confident that always it will be more and more.
In gratitude to the endless grace of a pure heart.
It is clearly reflected in all the faces everywhere.

Ivete Belfort Mattos
Sao Paolo, Brazil

*******

Always

Sometimes I feel OK.
Sometimes I feel real good.
Sometimes the feeling is perfect.
Sometimes I wait for life.
Sometimes I wait for death.
Sometimes there is only heaven.
Sometimes I cry.
Sometimes I laugh.
Sometimes my heart giggles with glee.
Sometimes, sometimes, sometimes, but you
are always there waiting for me.

Jim Sakshaug
Marblemount, Wa, USA

********

feeling better

just feeling better
helps me do better things.
moments filled with feeling better,
leaves less time for those other things

Daryl Wilson
Water Valley, MS, USA

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Date: Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 18:52:13 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Roll over Beethoven ???
Message:
'...sounds that one musical listener suggested were a blend of Beethoven and Jean-Michel Jarre floated through the star-filled sky'

This is truly offensive, how dare he allow this insult to Beethoven be posted? Has he no respect?

I've heard his shallow, mediocre music and can attest that he is no Beethoven, not in the slightest. I wouldn't say it was absolutely terrible, it was better than someone just banging on a piano, but it was unremarkable, both musically and emotionally, it was insipid.

It was rather spacey, trippy, trancey, but was lifeless, he's no Jarre either. I found that his music, given the cult setting, rather sinister. It seemed to fit right in as another mind control tactic. I like a few new age music pieces, but it was new age put-you-to-sleep crap.

Notice the wording 'musical listener', is this some weak attempt at giving some credence to this opinion. Musical in what way? Do they have musical training and is this an unbiased opinion, or are they just a cult member figuring that it must be good because their 'Master' wrote it? I wonder if some premies think that Rawat is going to become a famous composer. Oy.

This reminds me of Shri Chinmoy's music being hyped up by his slaves. Stonor (a former poster here) heard it and said it was awful, but his followers were gaga over it anyway.

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 07:52:41 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: A Larkin resonse
Message:
my lord is like a red, red wine
so rich, and often drunk
as cuddly as a porcupine
as fragrant as a skunk
as distant as the milky way
much better viewed from far away
and as for those wise words you say
i've never heard such bunk.
my lord is like a panto queen
so cute in krishna crown
who waves a flute he cannot toot
and capers like a clown
but when he wiggles, heaven's above,
our souls cry out: we're all yours, guv,
just take us in the name of love!
you've won this round, hands down.

my lord is like a spoiled brat
who never once knew hardship
who's charity's an enterprise
and I don't mean the starship
whose dupes that follow in his way
will all sign up to work all day
receive no thanks, nor even pay
to serve his perfect lardship

my lord is like a violin
but wider round the middle
whose same old tune's a vile din
the whole damn cult's a fiddle
if shit were brains, with your IQ
you'd never need to use the loo
the one gold-plated just for you
except, perhaps, to widdle.

Previous Message Next Message Previous Thread Next Thread

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 08:12:59 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: A John T response
Message:
Elan Vital Company Song
Please sit yourself down and gaze at the screen,
There's plenty to learn before you get In.
There's Secrets in this, I'm sure you have seen...
So enjoy the satsang and cut out the din
Of critical thoughts and doubts in your head,
Of working things out, of feeling things through.
No need for all that, just follow instead.
One Secret is this: He'll look after you.

Whatever you want; whatever you need,
We've got the Knowledge; you've got the feed.

Sing praises to him, with beautiful hype,
Surrender to him, start feeling THAT love,
We'll help you along, and when the time's ripe
You'll come to see that he's God from above.

That Secret makes two I've told you so far,
Don't spread them about, that's only his right.
When your heart's ready, he'll open the jar,
And you'll get Knowledge for seeing him right.

Whatever his want; whatever his need,
He's got the technique, and plenty of greed.

So learn to Believe, that's what you must do.
Work at devotion, accepting his rule,
And with the Techniques comes experience too.
What's seen for oneself can't possibly fool!

White noise in your ears, white light in your eyes,
White taste on your tongue, and quiet inside.
With no distractions and filled up with lies,
You'll see for yourself that he's the True Guide.

Whatever we want; whatever we please,
Can play in our heads with consummate ease.

So with waking dream your longing's entwined,
Under your blanket a vision come true,
Showing just this; you have programmed your mind.
But you will Believe He's living in you.

Dedicated to ex-premie.org
Copyright 2001 John Tucker.
Verbatim copying and distribution of this entire article are
permitted in any medium provided this notice is preserved.

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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 18:33:43 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Does Amaroo have an Internet Cafe?
Message:
Where these poets can post their inspirations while the inspiration is still fresh, at only 5 USD per minute connection charge.

John.

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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 18:18:51 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: They must have been reading here
Message:
that post that someone wrote about it being so boring at Amaroo, and so they've livened it up!

I remember on the evening of the day I was first taught these meditation methods there was a Christmas pantomime performance at the Palace of Peace in London (Dec 10th 1973). It was actually very funny. There were premies portraying all these characters. I remember a Hare Krishna guy with a cloth shoulder bag with 'A Bag of Old Gitas' written on it. And someone did a brilliant impersonation of Mahatama Ashokanand.

Maybe Maharaji has also read here about the loss of community spirit which he is trying to recapture!

Truly bizarre!

John.

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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 18:21:44 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: was that the panto with the premie cavemen?
Message:
... trying to find out 101 uses for a beragon?

I think I almost remember it.

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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 18:31:26 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: was that the panto with the premie cavemen?
Message:
Sorry, I don't remember the cavemen. Sounds good, especially in view of Maharaji later banning the use of Beragons (for all 101 uses presumably!).

John.

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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 18:43:39 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: The cavemen made a brief appearance
Message:
at the beginning to show how degraded human beings are without the Perfect Master. Then there was a parade of Perfect Masters. I missed most of the show because a premie had brought a non-premie friend along and her friend was on acid. One look at the show and he freaked. So I spent the rest of the night in the First Aid room consoling him and giving him some hippie tonic called ''Rescue Remedy.'' I kept thinking all he needed was a stiff scotch and some sex and he'd be fine.
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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 18:53:30 (GMT)
From: I'm getting Darhan in the
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: morning, ding dong the bells are gonna shine we're
Message:
all in Miami

The weather is clammy

so get me to His feet on time!

Anyone remember THAT????

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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 19:31:15 (GMT)
From: He lies? Er, do little.
Email: None
To: I'm getting Darhan in the
Subject: i guess you were getting dar hang of it
Message:
did verse 2 go:

We're gonna suck the Maha's tootsies
Give us his toe-jam ev'ry time
let's knock his socks off
it gets our rocks off
so get us to his feet on time ...

?

cq

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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 19:49:02 (GMT)
From: I lurk the ex site
Email: None
To: He lies? Er, do little.
Subject: every morning
Message:
Oh God for this I'm gonna Fry
Can't stand Janice Wilson
ELKs a fucking prison
A forum addict that is I

I am a premie
But EV's a bore
I read Enjoying Life
But Whitaker is a whore

Give me Jim Heller
Or JM Kahn
What'll Dettmers say next?
Did he really share Dad's bong?

I know I shouldn't
But I gotta know
Monica Lewis?
I can't turn off this show!

I tried first technique
And number three
But my Apple calls me
Donner I gotta see!

Even at Amaroo
They call my name
Oh Lord please save me I
'll never be the same

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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 20:11:16 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: I lurk the ex site
Subject: Pick a name and give us some more poetry
Message:
Love your poems. More, more.
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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 20:55:20 (GMT)
From: jumbler
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: singh sin song
Message:
I earned the wrath of several venerable prems, by singing an Elton John song in the Edinburgh ashram, not because it was an Elton John song which would have been fair enough, but because of the lyrics...

'Burn down the mission if you want to stay alive...'

no sense of the appropriate some people!

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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 23:25:56 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: jumbler
Subject: Yes, and how about Stevie Wonder?
Message:
Whenever 'Burn Down the Mission' came on someone's radio or something I got confused. Why? Because I was living in this weird state of faux-schizophrenia in which I believed that Maharaji was talking ot me through everyone and everything. We were supposed to think that, weren't we? Wasn't that the whole point of stories like the 'saint' and the little doggie that steals his chapati? (Sounds like a good lead in to an Adam Sandler song like the Chanukka Song). Maharaji was everywhere if you just had enough faith. Be like Mira Bai and look past the world!

But then songs like 'Burn Down the Mission' would pop up and really confuse me. Like what the fu....? Maharaji, you talking to me, Lord? Why you saying THAT?

The worst was Stevie Wonder's 'Mistra' Know-it-all'. I still remember a bit of it:

He's the man
With the plan
Got a counterfeit dollar bill in his hand
He's Mistra Know-it-All

Never understood what Maharaji was trying to say with that one.

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 01:55:21 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Yes,how BOUT Stevie Wonder?
Message:
I have my favorites that i think apply to our little social/agent provocateur club, here.

I always liked
'You haven't done Nothin'

and 'they won't go when I go'

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 01:59:44 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: I didn't get that, Janet
Message:
First, I don't recognize the songs. Second, what's your point? You got a certain 'message' from these?
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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 03:19:32 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: someone send jim these two songs, please.
Message:
theyre off the major double album 'fulfillingness' first finale' in the mid 70's.
surprised you dont know it. must have been in rigorous ashram renunciation then.
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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 16:25:11 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: we are amazed but not amused
Message:
we are amazed but not amused
by all the things you say that you'll do.
though much concerned but not involved
with decisions that are made by you.

and we are sick and tired of hearing your song
telling us how you are gonna change right from wrong,
but if you really want to hear our views -
you haven't done nothin!

(c) Stevie Wonder.
.
.
.
('fraid I can't remember the lyrics to the other one)

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 18:21:31 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Jim, Janet, et al
Subject: Stevie Wonder - lyrics in full
Message:
'You haven't done nothin'' continues:

.
.
.

It's not too cool to be ridiculed
But you brought this upon yourself
The world is tired of pacifiers
We want the truth and nothing else

And we are sick and tired of hearing your song
Telling how you are gonna change right from wrong
'Cause if you really want to hear our views
'You haven't done nothing'!

Jackson 5 join along with me say
Doo doo wop - hey hey hey
Doo doo wop - wow wow wow
Doo doo wop - co co co
Doo doo wop - naw naw naw
Doo doo wop - bum bum bum
Doo doo wop

We would not care to wake up to the nightmare
That's becoming real life
But when mislead who knows a person's mind
Can turn as cold as ice (un hum)

Why do you keep on making us hear your song
Telling us how you are changing right from wrong
'Cause if you really want to hear our views
'You haven't done nothing'!
Yeah

Jackson 5 sing along again say
Doo doo wop
Doo doo wop - oh
Doo doo wop - co co co
Doo doo wop - sing it baby
Doo doo wop - bum bum bum
Doo doo wop - um
Sing it loud for your people say
Doo doo wop - um um um

Doo doo wop - stand up be counted, say
Doo doo wop - co co co
Doo doo wop - ow
Doo doo wop - bum bum bum
Doo doo wop - ah hum

*
*
*

He's Misstra Know-It-All

He's a man
With a plan
Got a counterfeit dollar in his hand
He's Misstra Know-It-All

Playin' hard
Talkin' fast
Makin' sure that he won't be the last
He's Misstra Know-It-All

Makes a deal
With a smile
Knowin' all the time that his lie's a mile
He's Misstra Know-It-All

Must be seen
There's no doubt
He's the coolest one with the biggest mouth
He's Misstra Know-It-All

If you tell him he's livin' fast
He will say what do you know
If you had my kind of cash
You'd have more than one place to go oh

Oou... oou... oou oou... oou...

Any place
He will play
His only concern is how much you'll pay
He's Misstra Know-It-All

If he shakes
On a bet
He's the kind of dude that won't pay his debt
He's Misstra Know-It-All

When you say that he's livin wrong
He'll tell you he knows he's livin' right
And you'd be a stronger man
If you took Misstra Know-lt-All's advice oh oh

oou... oou... oou oou... oou...

He's the man
With a plan
Got a counterfeit dollar in his hand
He's Misstra Know-It-All

Take my work
Please beware
Of a man that just don't give a care no
He's Misstra Know-It-All (Look out he's coming)

Dum bum bum ba bum bum,
Dum bum bum ba bum bum
Bum bum bum bum bum Say
He's Misstra Know-It-All

Can this line
Take his hand
Take your hat off to the man who's got the plan
He's Misstra Know-It-All

Every boy take your hand
To the man that's got the plan
He's Misstra Know-It-All

Give a hand to the man
That you know he's got the plan
He's Misstra Know-It-All

Give a hand to the man
Don't you know darn well he's got the super plan
He's Misstra Know-It-All

Give a hand to the man
You know damn well he's got the super plan
He's Misstra Know-It-All

If we had less of him
Don't you know we'd have a better land
He's Misstra Know-It-All

So give a hand to the man
Although you've given out as much as you can
He's Misstra Know-It-All

Check his sound out
He'll tell it all
Hey
You talk too much you worry me to death
He's Misstra Know-It-All

They Won't Go When I Go

They Won't Go When I Go
(Music Stevie Wonder - Lyrics Yvonne Wright)

No more lying friends
Wanting tragic ends
Though they do pretend
They won't go when I go
All those bleeding hearts
With sorrows to impart
Were right here from the start
And they won't go when I go
And I'll go where I've longed
To go so long
Away from tears
Gone from painful cries
Away from saddened eyes
Along with him I'll bide
Because they won't go when I go
Big men feeling small
Weak ones standing tall
I will watch them fall
They won't go when I go
And I'll go where I've longed
To go so long
Away from tears
Unclean minds mislead the pure
The innocent will leave for sure
For them there is a resting place
People sinning just for fun
They will never see the sun
For they can never show their faces
There ain't no room for the hopeless sinner
Who will take more than he will give
He ain't hardly gonna give
The greed of man will be
Far away from me
And my soul will be free
They won't go when I go
Since my soul conceived
All that I believe
The kingdom I will see
'Cause they won't go when I go
When I go
Where I'll go
No one can keep me
From my destiny.

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 00:53:32 (GMT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Yes , that old mindset , good recollection ...
Message:
I had problems with :

Here comes the candy man ...

......if I had me a shotgun I'd blow him straight to hell .

Pat Dorrity.

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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 23:37:52 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Hey, Mr Macrame-head was good for post-arti
Message:
dancing. He was such fun before ''I just want to say...'' Yuck!
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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 23:20:05 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: jumbler
Subject: I wish I'd been there when you were
Message:
In 73 when I was in the Glasgow ashcan and helped the Edinburgh guys move, most were too calvinist for my tastes although there were one or two heretics.
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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 23:22:34 (GMT)
From: jumbler
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: I wish I'd been there when you were
Message:
Can't have missed you by much my man, we were building, no, banging together the Pilrig street palazzio when I was still in the Forrest road ashcanazi, Blodwell may have gone by then. It was all falling apart with the mission thing anyhow.
I think we all sort of realised after Houston the game was up, gave us a glimpse of the wiikkkked world outside.

Yippee...

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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 19:54:39 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: I lurk the ex site
Subject: Really?
Message:
You serious?

Grab a name in any event. If you're stuck for one there's one on your licence. :)

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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 16:27:29 (GMT)
From: Carl
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Gratitude to this Forum and its participants
Message:
So where do I send my hard-won rupees?

But seriously:

I've been checking into this astonishing site for at least a couple of years. I've learned a lot and laughed a great deal. And almost wept. This is my first post.

I am tremendously moved by the sincerity and intellectual vigor demonstrated here in the grappling with the profound issues summoned by involvement with GM & K. This site is a most necessary antidote to the stultification of inquiry and censoring of shared discourse about some pretty thorny questions that refuse to go away.

It seems that all those who regularly post or lurk/monitor here are permanently captured by the GM & K phenomena. If we weren't, we wouldn't even show up. Is it 'once a premie, always a premie'? Can't ever shake it?

But how great that the boddhisatva spirit persists that brings you all here -- some so much that I wonder how you ever get anything else done! -- for the benefit and, dare I say it, upliftment of humankind. This particular internet space seems critical for the prevention and cure of our unique brand of superstition, fear and bigbrotherish mind control. It is empowering and refreshing, in all its variety of tone and content.

I've been thinking that there are other issues on the table, having to do with the future course of religious/philosophical thought on this planet, and how political, scientific and economic realities will be affected by how people think about what now seems to be just another slick/sick guru cult.

Not that we'll live so long as to know how history will unfold; however, we just may be born back into it (if you subscribe to that notion).

I mean, consider how the lives and subsequent cults of Jesus, Krishna, Mohammed, Buddha, et al., have influenced the course of history, and have both inspired AND retarded scientific and artistic understandings and progress, having directly or indirectly brought both exquisite beauty and utter depravity into being.

Perhaps this is just the way, the will, and the reflection of conflicted 'human nature', both in its individual aspect, and collectively. Man makes gurus, he needs them for some yearning reason, and Nature (in the way that Nature abhors a vacuum) provides. It may be the natural and civilized mentoring phenomenon that has gotten both amplified and distorted. Didn't P.T. Barnum also have some insight along these lines?

It seems there is a concerted effort to market and perpetuate the guru's myth and reputation, true of most any guru. The Bible's Apostles as well as today's EV are doing much the same kind of work: PR for the CEO.

But how to guard against education from becoming indoctrination? How to cultivate respect for, if not to celebrate, diversity in cultures, philosophies and outlook, without the tendency toward witchhunts, pogroms, holocausts, and jihads? How to prevent differing canons from becoming cannons?

That's what is so great about this forum, and I am indeed grateful: People are trying mightily to understand what the hell happened -- and is happening -- and to resolve the discord between the teaching, the practice, and the promise. Yes, we may have been 'had' on one level, but we were 'giving' it to ourselves, too. And in the work of resolving all this, there still seems to be immense benefit.

Some brief background:

I first heard of 'the young 13-year old perfect master' in 1971 when I was 19, and became a 'premie' (that oddly diminutive-sounding term) in 1972 at Montrose Guru Puja. Joined an ashram, went to London, also India (several times), was in Blue Aquarius, landed on the Satpal side of the 'great split' in, what year was it, 1975?, and continued ashramic involvement until about 1988. Have maintained sporadic contact with Bhole Ji and Satpal Ji, and still value the meditation practice to this day.

BTW, I hope to participate from time to time, and wonder how you folks accomplish the italicizing and bolding of text.

My sincerest best wishes to all.

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 18:45:36 (GMT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Carl
Subject: Welcome Carl and thanks for the
Message:
waltz down memory lane. Amazing recall you have and many new details to help flesh out the story we all were part of. I hope you will continue to post and participate.

Richard

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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 20:29:22 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Carl
Subject: Hi Carl
Message:
Hi Carl,

Welcome to the madhouse.

I share a couple of your questions, things that have been bothering me since I left the cult in fact, so if you find out how to do bold and italic in your posts, let me know.

Anth I tried, God knows I tried.

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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 20:37:29 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: bold and italics
Message:
As Francesca said, you can't demonstrate the switches precisely, since doing so in a post so will activate/deactivate those changes instead of displaying the switches.

But imagine the following WITHOUT the underscores between characters.

To switch italics on, do this before the passage in question: <_i_>

To switch italics off: <_/_i>

To switch bold on: <_b_>

To switch bold off: <_/_b>

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 16:51:21 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: bold and italics
Message:
Okay Nigel,

I'll give it <_/_i> another try<_/_i>
<_b_> what I like about this is it's so intuitive. <_/_b>

This post only took me 25 minutes.

<_p?b and I don't even know Anth the <./b?#>

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 02:25:29 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Nigel and carl and anth
Subject: bold and italics
Message:
ok second go
this forum is html enabled. the opening code is already present before you type anything in the message box.
so html tags are what you put before and after the portion of your words that you want to embellish. as you can see with nigel's post, the server went right ahead and mistook his examples for real code, and so the tags disappeared when the browser read them.

i don't know if you have ever written any html code, so I'll be simple.
every tag has to be surrounded by, with no spaces left between, what's inside them, and the words they are meant to affect, the so called 'tags'.
on my keyboard, the opening and closing brackets are on the comma and period keys, using the shift key. the opening bracket looks like this:

<

and the closing one like this:

>

.
all html tags go inside a set of these, which the browser 'sees' and takes to be a command to do what the instructions inside the tags indicate. the labels for each command are usually real simple.
i
is for italic.
b
is for bold
u is for underline

think of html commands like doors going successively deeper into a building from the outside. whatever you open, you must close behind you, and you must leave and shut doors behind you in the same order you opened them. you can only go to the center of this place, and then you must turn around and go back out the way you came in, closing the layers as you are done with them.
so you could make something bold by opening the door in front of the word 'bold' with the command before it of the letter b, and enclose b with one left pointing < and one right pointing >
the you would type whatever you wanted to appear in boldface.without leaving a space after, you would signal the conclusion of the command with another set of pointy tags, left and right, and the same command again inside them, BUT
to turn off the command( and shut the door to that chamber) you use the / between the pointy tag left, and the command letter
so a closing tag must have on the other side

this is italic tagging

this is bold tagging

this is underline tagging

let's see if the machine makes sense of this.
if not, I'll be back to explain it another way.

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Date: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 01:09:12 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: OK let's try again
Message:
so, I put a pointy bracket with a b for bold <\b>

well it seems a bit easier.

Anth the pointy bracket having a slash Help how do I turn it off.

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 02:32:18 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: bold and italics-try another way
Message:
the machine didnt do what i thought.
ok. we got this much straight
every html tag must have a

<

and a

>

around it.
to write a set of opening and closing tags, lets say for italics,
take this below, and put those carets in place of the similar brackets surounding the letters:

{i}i want this in italics{/i}

{b} i want this in bold{/b}

{u} i want this underlined{/u}

lets see if the machine does it again.

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 02:47:11 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: bold and italics-try another way-1 more sneak
Message:
<> I want this in italics<>

<> I want this in bold <>

<> I want this underlined <>

now--if this does what i think it will, you'll see two of everything in the tags. that should foil the browser but leave it plain to your eye.

just use one of each,in the before and after.. take out one right pointing caret, one letter from the left tag and one left pointing caret,then take out one left pointing caret, one letter, one slash, and one right pointing caret from closing tag.
so it comes out looking like this, but using carets, instead of braces:

{i} I want this in italics{/i}

{b} I want this in bold{/b}

{u} i want this underlined{/u}

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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 20:30:57 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Carl
Subject: PS Carl, I enjoyed your post. Thanks. (nt)
Message:
well a bit
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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 18:46:01 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: Carl
Subject: Thanks from me, too...
Message:
Welcome, Carl. After a first post like that I hope you stick around (looks like you've spent a lot of time lurking anyway, so why not?)

I too am very interested in the Satpal days and Rawat family dynamics. For instance, would Satpal be aware of Prempal's killing a man and fleeing the scene?

And if not, do your think he'd be interested in using said knowledge to his personal advantage, and to his kid brother's detriment? Surely there's a criminal charge that could yet be brought against Maharaji. Isn't/wasn't Satpal a government minister and thus well placed to pull a few strings? Or might the publicity be too personally damaging because of the family connection?

Anyway, thanks again,

Nige the shit-stirrer.

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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 18:12:04 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Carl
Subject: Welcome, Carl, I really enjoyed your first post
Message:
and am looking forward to your continued input. I am sure we're all curious about your Satpal days. But I am also looking forward to just getting to know you.
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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 17:10:58 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: notinherent@yahoo.com
To: Carl
Subject: Did you play the trombone?
Message:
I was in Blue Aquarius from the Camp Joan Meier phase forward, through the ugly split. The last band houses I lived in were in Venice and Culver City (with Colleen and Doug, Matt and Raya, and a bunch of others).

Welcome to the discussion. I can't say welcome to the Forum, because you've been reading the posts for quite some time!

If you were on the Bhole Ji/Satpal side then you were in touch with Michael Green, Rick, Helen, Knud Bjorno, Sylvia St. James and a bunch of others way longer than I was, and I would be glad to hear about them. My e-mail address is above so we don't have to chat about that on the Forum.

I am still in touch with Larry Cohen (bass, piano, arranger extraordinaire) and Dick Parke (guitar) [Dick was in during Soul Rush, Millenium, and for a while after that].

As for bold, italics, fonts, etc. -- click on Forum Help at the top of the page, and that should get you there. Once you type in the tags, they are embedded in the post, so I can't show you here.

Best wishes, f

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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 16:37:26 (GMT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Carl
Subject: Thanks and welcome Carl. a question for you...
Message:
Were you in Indian ashrams until 1988?
Under Satpal's guidance?

I think the US ashrams closed in 1983, that's why I ask.

I would be very interested in knowing more about the Satpal side of things...

What his version of the split was.
How big is his following?
What is his take on maharaji?
Have they ever talked, like at Mata Ji's funeral?
What does Bhole Ji do these days?

Just wondering..thanks for your thoughtful post..

La-ex

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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 19:47:23 (GMT)
From: Carl
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: Thanks and welcome Carl. a question for you...
Message:
I was in Blue Aquarius at the time of the split, and most all of us were quite loyal to Bhole Ji, who was loyal to Satpal and Mata Ji. It was a very traumatic time, as you can imagine.

At that time we were all staying at Camp Joan Meier (Meyer?), a large, rather nicely maintained, camp for physically handicapped children. Those children were not there; it was no longer being used for that purpose, or maybe we were there only for the off-season, I can't recall. (I was not a honcho.) It had nice great number of cementblock 'cabins', a rehearsal hall, dining hall and kitchen, other apartments for staff and so on. It was near or north of Malibu, and was on Pacific Coast Highway directly across from the ocean. It was actually idyllic, just beautiful: the wooded hills were behind us, the sparkling ocean in front of us. It was a popular spot for surfers, too. Some of us would go down to the beach at night and meditate. Some may have been doing other things, I seem to recall.

I remember the 'night of the guns.' Although I never saw the guns myself, there was a very disturbing night at the split-up time when the whole compound was 'under siege' and Bhole Ji was in, or felt to be in, considerable danger. The DLM heavies were so unpredictable and bizarre, anything could have happened.

Eventually, we set up in Thousand Oaks, CA, and took a number of apartments in an attractive apartment complex. We were pursued there by the DLM heavies, the names of whom I've forgotten, who would come around and try to intimidate, cajole, threaten and entreat us to reconsider our allegience. I distinctly remember Jagdeo also coming there to talk to us, apparently to try to gather us back to the DLM view. We would have none of it. I'm somewhat certain he conducted there no knowledge sessions, children's or otherwise, but he did hold 'satsang'. I do remember what he looked like. Full grey head of hair, handsome lined face, distinguished, glasses I think, nice suit, no saffron robes.

Many of the musicians in the band were mavericks, notoriously anti-authoritarian, and didn't have any patience with the DLM bullshit. A fair number were jazz musicians, or trying to be. We were a thorn in DLM's side: we knew it, they knew it. Economics played a big part of it, I'm sure, because we were Bhole Ji's personal band, and it was gigantic: full brass, woodwind, rhythm and string sections, four or five singers, electricians and audio people, arrangers and copyists, roadies, cooks, a few wives and kids, other hangers-on. And the funding was staggering, I'm sure.

We had some amazing music-making sessions, I must say: Sort of Lawrence Welk on acid, some of it, with some very heartfelt and sensitive song-writing, and plenty kick-ass grooves. We were all over the musical map. There actually was a lot of raw and refined talent expressing itself there.

Our efforts were as much directed toward becoming a viable entertainment-world success as it was in 'serving Guru Maharaj Ji', the one necessarily helping the other. We even had contacts with Quincy Jones, and others, who came to the Camp to audition us, or check us out. We were recording regularly in Hollywood.

We were fortunate to have had in the band several independent and vocal thinkers, who could emotionally position themselves, and sometimes clearly articulate, exactly why the DLM trip was in trouble, and that we were damn lucky to be under Bhole Ji's wing. But basically, the DLMers, the bossy honcho types, the 'suits' were anathema to jazzers and 'creative types'. This is not surprising, 'tis ever been thus.

Remember, this was very early on, ca. 1974, and we had, before all this, been living together in Hollywood at a fabulously seedy old hotel on Hollywood Boulevard, just down the street from (the legendary) Grauman's Chinese Theatre. (That's a whole story in itself.)

But before that, we had been in Houston for the great lift-off, and before that, on 'Soul Rush', a multi-city mainly East Coast concert tour. And before that, the band had formed in London, giving concerts at Hammersmith Odeon, also at the big GM event at Alexander Hall (or Palace?). We had bonded together both with Bhole Ji and amongst ourselves. I have great friendships to this day from those times, and some of whom I've lost track, regrettably. Many of the people in the band were European, lots of Brits, smattering of Germans, Swiss, others. Around this time there were immigration concerns which also threatened the fabric of the band. How, or by whom, were they going be be sponsored?

After a while the band couldn't maintain itself, and we ended up getting regular jobs in and around LA, formed various premie houses in Santa Monica and Venice (CA), and a 'Residence' in Pacific Palisades. Some people drifted away, and life went on. We who remained were informed, felt and understood that Prempal was bonkers for 'falling from the path' and that Satpal was the real keeper of the flame. There had been rumors of unseemly behavior on the part of Prempal (aka Sant Ji) before then, just worrisome scandalized whispers. It may have been excruciating for some to negotiate that switch to Satpal Ji, but for those who were instinctively rebellious to begin with, I don't think it was that bad. To be honest with you, Bhole Ji just seemed a lot hipper and more much fun than anything else happening at the time. It was a wonderful balance in many ways: creative musical work along with meditation and 'spiritual progress'.

A significant figure at the time was Mahatma Satyanand, one of Shri Hans' mahatmas, the oldest or longest serving mahatma. He was a powerful figure, and communicated much and well, even though his accent was very strong. He pretty much made it clear in both practical and cosmic ways that Satpal was Lord, not Prempal. I wish I could dredge up the fine points of his argument, but it was as much his force of personality and personal integrity that compelled belief as it was any logical reasoning.

This much was clear from this particular Mahatma: I never felt or construed anything he said that would lead me to become a blind robot, an automaton of blissful disregard. This was one cranky, genuine and thoughtful guy. He made it very clear that we SHOULD think, carefully, with discernment and for oneself, to test all premises, about anything, from the existence of God to the price of watermelons. In no small way, he helped me, and I believe many others, keep their heads and wits when the DLM would have preferred us to shut down, turn off the lights and become yes men.

Mahatma Satyanand was the farthest thing from a yes man. He would reason and talk and argue just about anything, and when it was REALLY important, he would vociferously present his view, but give you space to make up your own mind. But his reasoning would usually be convincing. Also, he would never cling to a position if it could be shown that he was in error. He invited debate and sometimes got as good as he gave. He never shied away from hard physical work, either. He was up early and out the door digging stumps out of the mud, or clearing land, rototilling a garden, you name it. Didn't seem to have much fondness for Arti and all that routine. Plenty of action. In fact, one of his main concerns was 'the meaning of action' or the 'secret of action': That was where you could learn what your or anyone's character was all about. It is a lesson I still treasure. If you can imagine a short, burly, scrappy and cantankerous, hard-working, trouble-making saffron-robed son-of-a-bitch with a heart of gold and a wicked sense of humor, that was Mahatma Ji.

But I ramble.

To answer your questions:
The new faction eventually moved, i.e., a small remaining core group, to NYC around 1976 with Satpal Ji. He never actually lived there for any permanent length of time, but he definitely wanted a separate presence and fresh beginning in NYC. (India was his main focus, events have shown). That NYC ashram became the basis of another smallish community of faithful, and things proceeded under another name, Spiritual Life Society. There was an Indian version, Manav Dharma, which continues even now. I think it is Manav Dharm Seva Samiti.

There was another relocation to semi-rural New Jersey. That ashram disbanded around 1990 or so, I'm not sure the exact year: I was there until around 1988. But there has always been a few die-hards who've kept the flame, and in any case, a strong Indian community thread which is still active. I would have no way of calculating the numbers of Satpal Ji's followers, although I believe it is more than just a few. Again, the sizable Indian communities in New Jersey, Canada, California and perhaps elsewhere are his strong suit at this time.

As to Bhole Ji's ongoing activities I know little, although I do see him every so often. He does come to the U.S. at least once, maybe twice a year. With all that has happened over the years, some very difficult and wacky years, I still respect him and like him very much as a person. He is unconventional and sometimes hard to 'read', but it would be unnatural not to feel warmly toward someone with whom you've shared some interesting and challenging times. I still touch his feet in the traditional greeting of respect.

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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 22:34:25 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Carl
Subject: *** Many Questions Arise, but Best Of!! ***
Message:
Has to be preserved as a testimony of a whole world that us loyal Prempalites knew nothing of.

Of course Satpal is a fraud - we have his pro Prempal speeches - but the politics of this is interesting.

John.

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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 20:15:52 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Carl
Subject: Excellent post, hi, nice to meet you, but ........
Message:
Carl,

How could you continue to respect and follow Satpal like that? I don't get it. He's telling all of us that a) Maharaji's the Lord of the Universe and b) Millenium blah blah blah. Didn't it occur to you that if he could get those two things as woefully wrong as he did, then perhaps the whole Rawat guru thing was a joke?

Anyway, you DID stick with him and that just has to be interesting. How did you then understand and account for Satpal's guruship? And what ABOUT his bizarre predictions? And what, if anything, did he ever say about Prempal and the like? Please, this is all rich, rich terrain.

Great post though. Truly, nice to hear from you.

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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 21:59:32 (GMT)
From: Carl
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Excellent post, hi, nice to meet you, but ........
Message:
Well, if logic and close reasoning, and a lack of insecurity, and a personal courage not otherwise countenanced in that environment, had prevailed, perhaps there would have been another result.

All in all, I have no regrets. We all came to this, got in, stayed for varying lengths of time, learned much if we wanted to, questioned much (hopefully), and came to some sort of individual accommodation to the baffling events and ideas, and moved on, or stayed in deep, or stepped to one side at various distances.

It seems that most who visit this forum are still sorting it out. I am. Maybe we always will.

Perhaps it it is a natural gradual genetically encoded maturing that brings one to various realizations along with a receding hairline.

No one is perfect, not even the 'perfect master'.

As a musician, I know what happens when you are winging it: Sometimes 'things happen' both incredibly fantastic and lamentable. But you go forward.

Gotta run now, dinner beckons.
Cheers!

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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 23:17:49 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Carl
Subject: Good ideas and all but you didn't answer my q's
Message:
Sorry, Carl, but I'm asking you something a bit more specific. I know you don't endorse however you thought then but I AM asking what those thoughts were, if you don't mind. How did you put it all together? How did Satpal maintain any credibility being that he was so god-awful wrong about who the Lord of the Universe was and exactly what was going to happen in Houston? That's just such a juicy question to me, I hope you give it some thought. Maybe you can't remember but that'd be so unfortunate.

See, I don't think I'm the only one here who never met any real-life Bal Bhagwan Ji people. It's true, I never did. To tell you the truth, I almost have this instinctive reaction to you as if you're playing for the 'other side' or something. Yes, even after all this, after all that time, all this change, I still had that sense of 'uh oh, it's one of them!' Did you feel that in any way for any of us real premies after you left? [joke!]

And, as well, I really want to know, if you can tell us, how Satpal and Bhole Ji explained Satpal's spiritual authority, when he got it, how and all that. I bet a lot of us are curious about that.

Thanks again,

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 12:35:15 (GMT)
From: Carl
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: will try to answer:
Message:
Some of the thinking may have been (and I am not claiming I remember or understood it very clearly) was that it was Mata Ji who essentially 'made' the Guru; she was the one to know for sure. Also, it was actions and results of actions that prove who is the Satguru, and that that role can pass from someone who is demonstrably corrupt. There were also some specific references (quite forgotten) to certain Indian scriptural prophesies that foretold of a split in the family of Hans, that the two youngest brothers would fall from grace.

If you recall, part of the original thinking, way back at the beginning when this movement first came to the West, was that the holy family were 'all-one'. So it did not seem implausible, then, that if any one of them became bonkers or corrupt, they would need to be excised or denounced from the true living tradition. This was extremely hard on them as a family, whom I believe honestly regarded the dissemination of the knowledge techniques in the purely traditional manner as a sacred trust.

Let's see, what else: I guess it was such a strong sense of emotional commitment to Bhole Ji that made it relatively easy for most of the band folk to align where he aligned. At the same time, from what I remember, Satpal did carry himself with thoughtful gravity and was circumspect, and welcomed discussion in an open way. Of course, he was still treated with the same deference that all the Holy Family were, and one did not disrespectfully 'challenge' any of their authority. Really, respectful love was the basis. Satpal Ji gave satsangs that were intellectually stimulating, scripturally rich and informed, and as contrasted with Sant Ji's (i.e., Prempal's) satsang, quite erudite. I think many people could relate to, and respect him, on that basis alone. But there was always additionally present a great kindness, just personal indefinable simple human warmth from him and from the remaining family, and amongst ourselves, that kept us all together through these troubling times and beyond.

Any group has its level-headed ones, its wise-ass rebels, its humble backgrounders, its clench-jawed fanatics, its ambitious ones, its layabouts and its bongos. In almost all ways we were no different from the regular premie community. The level-headed and loving ones never felt hatred toward the premies who remained with the disgraced Sant Ji. I think most felt a kind of pity. Most people, on both sides, were simply confused and deeptly hurt by the split, and many did indeed just fall away from the whole scene.

But we regrouped. We were still premies. Some worked in NYC in various businesses and tried to live spiritual lives. The Satpal side just seemed to maintain more of the traditional approach, similar to the early 70s ashram days. There wasn't the emphasis on greedy slickness such as was developing at DLM. Rather, it was quite low key, and was focused on the essentials, you remember: satsang, service, meditation. Aiming for balance and understanding.

Also, Jim, everyone: please be patient. I am new to this posting routine, and am learning the ropes. I hope one is not expected to exhaustively answer every question that gets posed. I simply won't be able to spend gobs of time here keeping track and responding to all. I see how for many posters it is apparently all-consuming.

Right now I have a lot of irons in the fire, and can only check in from time to time. In fact, in a few days I will be travelling out of the country, and will be away from email until mid-May.

But golly, it IS gratifying to learn and contribute here. Warm regards to all.

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 16:23:31 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Carl
Subject: Thanks so much, Carl -- really 'enlightening'
Message:
Thanks very much for helping to complete a picture that was so obscure for so long. What would really be cool, if and when you ever had the time, would be for you to write a good, long 'Journey' entry, exploring as best possible the process you recall of transferring guru's, etc. This is all pretty fascinating stuff, in a way. I could talk with you on and on and on about it but I respect that you somehow have a life (for now!).

I'm still not clear how Satpal ever got any of you'all to overlook his decidedly foolish Millenium prophecies and the like. Also -- and boy is this going to seem like a funny question -- how did you know, at first, that the conflict wasn't just, gulp, lila?

But, at your convenience. Thanks for this last reply. You can tell what I'm interested in.

Jim

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 16:05:22 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Carl
Subject: Informed, intellectually stimulating and erudite??
Message:
Satpal Ji gave satsangs that were intellectually stimulating, scripturally rich and informed, and as contrasted with Sant Ji's (i.e., Prempal's) satsang, quite erudite.

Are you talking about the same Satpal (aka Bal Baghwan Ji)??
Were you heavily drugged when you listened that that idiot? Far from being sophisticated, he was a DORC!

This is the same guy who said that the Pope would receive knowledge, that a comet (Kahoutek) was part of some cosmic event involving the Millennium festival because it stood for 'Houston, Texas,' had some of the screwiest and ignorant scientific theories imaginable, including repeating that crap about sucking animals being carnivores and seeds being dead, and all of us living in a 'Divine City.' He was always throwing in superstitious crap like numerology and word games. Plus, he had the dorkiest glasses in the Western Hemisphere.

No that he's 50 I'm sure he has improved, but come on!

I never actually heard Bohle Ji speak, but I could relate my story about him in which he was picking his nose with a ferocity that was truly frightening, but I shall desist. Plus, his antics at Millennium, and the fact that they are recorded on video, must be sources of monumental embarrassment for poor old Bohle.

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 17:31:15 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Informed, intellectually stimulating and erudite??
Message:
Joe:

I was around for some of the period Michael is talking about, except that I jumped off the Satpal turnip truck in about 1975 or 76 (sorry, fuzzy on the time frame). I kind of faded away, and eventually went back to the premie community, partially because my premie sister and husband were always there for me in a really big way. But before I digress, the Satpal of the wild Millenium days was not the Satpal that came to our tiny apartment living room in Venice and gave satsang. And although he got his measure of respect and Carl is being honest about that, it was nowhere near the way we were supposed to treat M.

I didn't find him warm however -- more incisive, almost cutting like a knife. I think it was a reflection of his intellect somewhat, but possibly his personal energy and dynamism. He and Bhole Ji knew everyone in the band personally, although Bhole Ji was the one we could just hang out with.

Mata Ji had her moments -- I remember her being really cold to me as I set out in another thread. I was going through hell with the family split and was crying while I was doing something at the residence. She apparently thought it was funny and said, 'confused?' with a big smile and told someone to get me some ice cream. Since there was a whole thing about 'confusion' and M that was an in-joke at the time, I thought it rather cold and cynical. Maybe she didn't mean it that way, but suffice to say she certainly was NOT tuned in to where I was coming from.

Another time I was sitting in a car crying instead of going into rehearsal and Satpal said, 'where Frenchie?' (That was a nickname some of the folks in the band used for me.) He noticed that I was missing, but I'm not sure if he followed up and found out why. Eventually I left, because it was another Guru trip.

But here's the sick point. I went back to M because he had given me K, and I hadn't really practiced it enough yet so I didn't feel I could throw it away. I went back to the K session vows and the whole thing. Sick, sick. No wonder the Tibetan Buddhists can't get me to take spiritual vows seriously. Once broken, only jokin'. Spiritual vows are made when someone really wants something they don't know. Otherwise they wouldn't be coming to a teacher or guru in the first place. How can you make vows based on that??

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 21:37:50 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: Informed, intellectually stimulating and erudite??
Message:
Very true about the vows, Francesca. People take such vows as an act of faith, in the hopes that by jumping into the abyss, by believing hard enough, you will get something great, beyond what you could even think about. It's a huge sham. Because most of us were raised to fulfill our committments. Of course, M didn't have to uphold his side of the bargain. We surrendered our lives, but he didn't save us, set us free, make us happy, or give us fulfillment. He never had it to offer in the first place.

It's very interesting all this holy family stuff you were involved in and that you actually considered following BBJ. That is just so far from anything that I ever considered.

Of course, I thought Mata Ji was weird and controlling, that BBJ was pretending to be smart when he wasn't, said stupid things, and only was where he was because of an accident of birth and the fawning premies, and Bohle Ji, well, there was the nose-picking and that embarrassing and humiliating perfromance at Millennium.

With all that, M and Raja Ji looked pretty good by comparison, to me, from where I was sitting, so there was never any question about where my loyalties were. I was quite happy to get all those pictures of unattractive people off the altars. At least M was kinda cute, and Raja Ji didn't look half bad. But those others, yuck!

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 01:17:58 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Jim, I did know some Satpalians until 85 and they
Message:
NEVER proselytized. One of them was actually married to a Prempalian and it did not bother him. He was very wealthy and maintained a house in New York for Satpal. They just never seemed as totalitarian or messianic as Prempalians.

Before I forget have a safe and pleasant trip to Costa Rica. I know you will hyave a wonderful time and don't forget to retrace your past lives in the footsteps of Shirley McClain or was that some other jungle?

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 03:14:07 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: would that have been Jimmie LoDato and family?
Message:
Jimmie LoDato was a blue collar salt of the earth entrepreneur who made a million bucks at anything he tried his hand at. He ran away with his sweetheart at 15 after he shot a man. He was a self made millionaire before he came to GMJ and left it to start again with the Alive kitchen on 42nd street, where i cut my teeth on the premie life in 1973. Jimmie gave his long island house over to the Holy Family as their Residence whenever they were in New York. I went out there once for a picnic with Mata Ji in the back yard in the summertime.
I heard after the split that Jimmie provided that house as the official headquarters for Satpal and MataJi's consolidation of their following.
Jimmie let go of the Alive Kitchen about 2 years after its opening and went on to real estate, selling condo's he called Alive condo's and made yet another million at that. He had four sons who were new york street smart and a sweet wife whose name I now forget. Joanie, maybe? Of his sons, I remember Lance and Danny
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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 04:21:17 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: No, but the guy I knew was also a self-made
Message:
millionaire and flew his own plane. By the time I met him he was living on a huge piece of land in Mendocino county with another wife (a premie from New York an artist.) He and I hit it off and were going to go into business together buying a fixer-upper apartment building in SF but I found it hard to handle his wife at the time. Never been very patient with artists I'm afraid. He built her a fabulous house on the land with a separate building as her studio. They parted later in the 80s. I think the house he had was in New Jersey and it was for Mata Ji.
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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 20:04:19 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: notinherent@yahoo.com
To: Carl
Subject: You're the first poster to back me up
Message:
Carl:

I have posted about the post millenium days of the band, and I'm sure some folks thought, yeah sure. It's in several old threads here and there. You stayed in it longer than I did. I went back to the premie community in 1976 and ended up in a premie band with Larry Cohen and Dick Parke, among others, called 'Beckon Gently.' And then eventually 4 years in the ashram, 78-80 in LA and 80-82 in San Francisco. I made a few phone calls to the place in New Jersey, many years ago, when I would go home to the east coast.

Donner has told the DLM side of this tale, but no one else from the band or support crew has posted on this stuff. Thanks, and best wishes.

==f

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 03:23:05 (GMT)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: How's my ol' buddy Dick Parke? still with April?
Message:
is he still living in West LA, doing computer stuff? playing guitar anymore?
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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 20:52:07 (GMT)
From: Bob
Email: None
To: Carl
Subject: very impressive , nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 16:57:18 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Carl
Subject: Yes, thanks
Message:
Carl,

Thanks for your kind remarks and I do hope you continue with some input.

My impression, based on very little, was that Bal Bhagwan Ji worked in a government position for many years and did not function as a full-time guru. Then, at some time, he gave up his 'day job' and became a serious 'Perfect Master.' Is that correct?

Your stories about Satpal would be quite interesting to many of us here, I'm sure.

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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 16:54:37 (GMT)
From: bob
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: Thanks and welcome Carl. a question for you...
Message:
knowledge (not Knowledge) dispels all darkness! Information will prevail over secrecy. All real great people did not hold back secrets for a selected few. When do I feel grand? When SHARING, not when hiding. It will be interesting to fit this part of the picture together..
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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 14:31:17 (GMT)
From: bob
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: deniability and rumors
Message:
Been checking this site out for a few days now. I've been completely out of touch with the cult for over 10 years. My ashram days were from 72-75. When I started off premies were still wearing whites from India. Soon afterwards we stated wearing salvation army suits. Even then there was a common understanding that this was a disguise, because since the very beginning the contacts with the press turned out to be very negative. A process of shielding developed. New names were given to things. Nobody knew what to shield what from what. But everybody has seen people been turned off by displays of devotion, and seen premies leave because of changes towards a more westernized, corporate cult. And the fact that the maha, from the beginning, attracted mostly total losers, the crash victims of the hippie movement, (yes definitely myself included) who reacted unpredictably at public meetings.
I understand that even in India there was a need to have only a very short-term collective memory.
It was very much like Orwells 1984, all the insiders knew this, but just saw no other way.
So apart from the official truth we relied on rumors.
The great thing for maha was that he could communicate and still deny things completely officially.
There were always fires to put out and everytime a move was made to shield this, to cover it up.
Divine Light Mission developed a corporate culture of secrecy.
I still remember the introduction of EV, nobody was impressed.
After all it turned out to be an institutionalized shield.
The premies had also in their mind some shielding developed.
I think one of the more destructive side effects of 'holy name' is that ones mind starts to decompose.
There is no unifying principle, no driving force anymore. This allows dfferent mindsets at the same time: M is god, m is being manipulated.
I think technology had much to do with it as well: Tapes, videos,phone hookups etc. gave maha the chance to take much more control. Lazy as he is, he minimizes his active involvement.
Nothing really changed since the old days I guess....
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Date: Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 18:45:55 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: bob
Subject: Hope you'll stick around
Message:
Liked the points made in your post. So very true, and concise. The manipulation, the facelifts, the revisionism, and the fact that I was such a desperate loser that, although I rebelled, I clung onto that little rat turd for so long. Ah, youth.
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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 18:17:08 (GMT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: bob
Subject: Welcome Bob
Message:
Thanks for posting and welcome. I hope you will feel free to post more as your memory brings things up for review.

Richard

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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 18:01:15 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: bob
Subject: Hi bob, terrific analyisis
Message:
I hope you will write more posts. Good to see you here. Yes, definitely the Orwellian newspeak has always been a trait of the cult from the beginning.
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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 16:01:39 (GMT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: bob
Subject: welcome, Bob! Good insights into cult thinking.nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 13:09:56 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Another Aussi premie website!
Message:
Alicia Power

Twenty five years ago Alicia Power began her training and research in personal development, expanded states of awareness and inner power spirituality. Today, she brings to your coaching sessions her extensive experience in empowerment, personal productivity, clarity and what she calls 'Soul Satisfaction' - as important in business as in one's private life.
Alicia is also an intuition coach and spiritual mentor with a client base in New Zealand, Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane and the Gold and Sunshine Coast.

Her background includes journalism and business writing, the arts, private enterprise, personal and group facilitation.

She has developed programs and trainings that have influenced hundreds of lives throughout Australia and New Zealand.

Alicia has appeared on radio and television in both countries and continues her education program through multimedia productions.

I remember her: charming attractive blonde woman, always seated in the VIP section. I guess she's been NC or an instructor or something ...

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 21:04:18 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: No malicious intention in my post
Message:
I was merely into showing the facade 'high ranking' premies are trying to show to the public and to the premies to justify and sell their seminars in and around EV.

I find this interesting, because this is the facade premies are encouraged to show to the public these days, and this helps to understand a bit more the EV and m phenomenon these days.

I'm sorry some persons use this to attack them.

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 10:44:36 (GMT)
From: toby
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: look she answered my email
Message:
Hi Toby

I appreciate your comments. Who are you by the way? Are you an
ex-satsang-gurumaharaji person with a giant chip on your tongue? Are you
sad? Are you misinformed or just plain ill equipped to recognise genuine
courage when you see it? Where have you been that you slander someone who is
making a living helping others open their hearts? Phew! Have a wee look at
your own back yard, dear friend... what help are you giving where it really
matters...?

I appreciate you need help to feel happy (otherwise you wouldn't need to
hurt someone else!).. I hope you get there and enjoy the delight of just
thoroughly being loved by your own life...

Take care - you need to,
Alicia Power

P.S. Feel free to pass this on to jean-michel (whoever that is...)

----- Original Message -----
From: thomas
To:
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 9:33 AM
Subject: high

> just got informed by jean-michel
> that you are trying to make money with
> ex-satsang-gurumaharaji-wisdom on a cheap trellix-made website.
> Good luck
> You and I know , you just do it for the bucks.
>
> Bye
> Toby
>

So long, folks feel free to ask her some questions

Toby

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 02:02:05 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Another fucking knowall
Message:
who is arrogant enough to think that they have something to teach people. Well one thing I have learned in my 48 and a half years here is that no matter what the trip is, there's always gonna be people who will get into it and be adoring sychophants to someone who leads the way.
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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 11:01:59 (GMT)
From: Mr. Mind
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Marketing=trolling for fish/new age name
Message:
You are so right. No matter what bait is used, some will bite. Success is just the relationship between bites and effort to get bites.

I think her last name of Power was chosen to help people see that she indeed can EMPOWER them. ...or maybe I'm just cynical and she really does care.

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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 18:29:21 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Is she still a premie or is she a guru?
Message:
I ask because of this service she offers:-

We all need guidance.

Some of us prefer to access guidance from our 'inner teachers' - aspects of ourselves that are more highly aware than our everyday conscious mind.

You may already be using a form of inner guidance, asking for help from your higher power, whoever or whatever that is. You may also be receiving indicators that your prayers are being heard and answered.

Unfortunately, many people settle for vague 'signs' or the odd clear message as being as good as it gets.

Over ten years, Alicia has trained hundreds of people to hear their inner teachers

clearly
whenever they want (at will)
in English (or their own language)
in as much detail as they want

You can imagine what fun can be had learning about subjects that even scientists are only beginning to understand -

The true nature of matter
Your personal non-physical history
Past life incarnations
Your personal soul overview and direction
to name only a few....

If you would like experienced tuition in higher telepathy with your inner teachers .... click here for a personal phone coaching program.

The personal phone coaching program starts with a 60-90 minute phone call. I wonder how that compares with Maharaji's DVD tuition method?

John.

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 07:18:41 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Is she still a premie or is she a guru?
Message:
Hi John,

9 yrs ago I decided that as a premie I'd been narrow and blinkered in my approach to spirituality and decided to check out the 'new age' stuff I seemed to be surrounded with.

I attended various workshops with as open a mind as I could manage. At one large group the leader was rather pissed off to find out that half the people there were premies or ex premies and she said that in Australia there were mostly premies in her workshops.

I've heard that there are numerous fringe premies doing all sorts of healing and new age things. In fact I know some of them. When this penchant for workshops became big in the 80's and maha was at his most vague and uninteresting there were a lot of prems who needed to make some money but hadn't really held a proper job for years. They set themselves up as low key teacher, guru, massager, crystalwavers etc.

Subsequently I heard that M didn't like his students doing this and at one program made mention of premies mixing up nollij with all this other stuff. I suspect that Mahaha would strongly disapprove of this Alicia setting herself up with a moneyspinning teacher business- off his back. Maybe she's an ex now though ?

Stay relaxed John - It's very laid back here in Portugal too

Best to you

Steve M

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 10:59:44 (GMT)
From: toby
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: Is she still a premie or is she a guru?
Message:
maybe we should send an email to elan vital pointing to her page.

That might develop a little copyright fight like we have had.
Could be interesting.

toby

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 11:10:09 (GMT)
From: Mr. Mind
Email: None
To: toby
Subject: Is she still a premie or is she a guru?
Message:
...and how come she isn't at Amaroo cult proceedings?
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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 09:14:54 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: Maybe this is for me!
Message:
I've been wondering how to maintain my lifestyle, finish my house renovations, build new stables and paddocks, build a sauna, and raise a large family, without actually working for a living!

So, it's the John Brauns Latvian Spiritual Advancement Retreat. For only 200 USD a day I will show people how to meditate, the best tree to meditate under, how to heal themselves of depression by talking to horses, how to cure all manner of ailments by watching the behaviour of ducks and hens. And I'll think up a few more consciousness and bank balance raising techniques so that people think they're getting their money's worth.

And the strange thing, while writing this post, I've convinced myself that this would actually work!

Guru John

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 02:06:03 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Hey, check out her quotes! Pure m
Message:
Here're a few quotes from her site:

The exciting thing about life is that there's plenty of it...

'Reach out - call out -

play out everything you want - then remember why you came here - to learn and contribute...'

Don't they sound just like the vacuous stuff m says? The last one sounds a hell of a lot like 'Leave me in your back pocket .... ' The first like the too-empty-for-Hallmark garbage he's spouting probably as we speak

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 04:23:30 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Pure New Age. Half my customers talk like that
Message:
and run similar ''spiritual'' businesses.
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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 14:37:17 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: More on Alice/Alicia
Message:
Her real name is Alice Bogacki. Wonder why she's using a moniker ....

Maybe she doesn't want her link with EV and Rawat to be known ? Why ? Is it so embarrassing ?

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 00:26:43 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: We could get pre-paid phone coaching for Jim
Message:
and then once Jim understands it then Jim can offer the same kind of services.

Sheesh, what a bunch of hoocum. I can't stand seeing this kind of stuff because I was so into it back then.

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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 08:01:42 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: What's important about the French magazine IMO
Message:
- It is an updated PRINTED document. The whole contain IS current and accurate, gives names and lots of details unavailable anywhere else (even on EPO for some stuff).

- It shows that EV and m are still active, and well organized

- Media don’t trust much Internet websites, if they don’t have OTHER independent information source

- Combat IS a well known (even though a bit underground) and reliable information source

- It mentions the most damning issues for m and EV: the Jagdeo issue, the prostitution ring in the Delhi ashram, abuses that occurred in France, m’s wealth (the yacht etc)

- It is presented in a way that people knowing nothing about the whole thing will understand what m and EV are about

- The magazine IS available and will remain available, most of it will be online

- There will be a follow up to this document …..

- This is a good base to work and investigate deeper on the EV case for other media, and it will attract their attention. There is a lot of information available in this magazine that’s the result of investigation in some French official/government agencies.

- This document will be freely distributed in many organizations, associations, schools, universities, and in general to people dealing with the cult problem here in France.

- It shows that it is possible to investigate and make good articles on a well hidden cult.

- It also shows that there are other exes, who are not involved in EPO, that have a lot to say and can be very efficient in bringing some new stuff to light. This magazine owes a lot to these guys (and gals).

And for those who still believe in this, there is not much grace protecting EV and m anymore, unless this is all a big Lila …

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 08:29:24 (GMT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: What's important about the French magazine IMO
Message:
JMK,

I thought this might interest you, see my post above.

Salam

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 01:23:16 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Yes, it is a coup, J-M
Message:
but not a ''coup de grace.'' Yes, the ''grace'' has left Rawat. I felt it leave many years ago but it finally went when he got rid of the 400 Indian mahatmas in 1999.
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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 16:30:31 (GMT)
From: La-ex
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: great work,JM...Some important questions...
Message:
1)Do you have a translator yet for the mag?
I know a French professor who may be able to...she received K, but never practiced it, and would probably like to read the article...

2)Did you say there will also be a follow up to it?
In a future edition of the same magazine?
Is there more stuff we can refer them to for the followup?
Interviews?

3)This is great, because it's current.
Can you share with us how it all got started?
It would be nice to be able to refer other writers and magazines/newspapers to it, so that they might be able to start their own investigation.
For instance, Ken Kelley did a big article on Millenium in 1973...a follow up by him on the guru almost 30 years later would make a very intriguing article for him to write...any suggestions on how to approach writers and get them interested?
Would a cash donation help start the process?

4)Is this the article that Anth referred to, coming out in March or April?
Are there others as well?

5)THANKS!!!

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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 17:04:48 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: La-ex
Subject: great work,JM...Some important questions...OK
Message:
1)Do you have a translator yet for the mag?
I know a French professor who may be able to...she received K, but never practiced it, and would probably like to read the article...

Not yet. I guess any volunteer will be welcome.
The main issue is: I'm not the editor, but I'm going to discuss this with them.
They'd definitely like to have an English translation online on their website. It's THEIR magazine, and they own the copyrights.

2)Did you say there will also be a follow up to it?
In a future edition of the same magazine?
Is there more stuff we can refer them to for the followup? Interviews?

1st, they intend to have a public forum held in a public place in a few weeks in Paris. This will be advertised.
They might have future editions, maybe a book, they're thinking about it.
Don't forget: they're involved in social work and action. Their main focus is aids, but they intend to get involved in some other hot issues. Cults is quite a hot stuff in France. Think of the Solar Temple suicides etc

3)This is great, because it's current.
Can you share with us how it all got started?

It started when the editor in chief of the magazine discovered some of his friends were ex-premies !! They told him some damning stuff about m and EV, and he started investigating himself. Then he got in touch with me and some other exes through the French forum.

It would be nice to be able to refer other writers and magazines/newspapers to it, so that they might be able to start their own investigation.
For instance, Ken Kelley did a big article on Millenium in 1973...a follow up by him on the guru almost 30 years later would make a very intriguing article for him to write...any suggestions on how to approach writers and get them interested?
Would a cash donation help start the process?

I have no idea on how to approach those guys. The best way IMO is to trigger their curiosity, and give them some hints on how to investigate themselves. They don't like being manipulated IMO. They have to decide themselves if this is interesting or not. What's interesting in France might not be valid in your country.

4)Is this the article that Anth referred to, coming out in March or April?

I guess so. Anth ?

Are there others as well?

I have no idea. My opinion though is not to bring the issue on the forum. IF you or anybody else work on that sort of project, keep it inside the group of people you're working with. Remember the article's project in UK.


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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 16:59:52 (GMT)
From: Monmot
Email: None
To: La-ex
Subject: Kudos, J-M...Many thanks.......(nt)
Message:
mm
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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 13:11:51 (GMT)
From: Katie H
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: You deserve personal thanks, too, J-M
Message:
I know that the ex-premie.org website must have become a far more credible source because you were personally available for interviews and input. (Also, many thanks to the other exes you mentioned - that's great that they were willing to come forward.)

Love,
Katie

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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 13:42:28 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Katie H
Subject: Thank you Katie
Message:
They definitely asked me to help them setting the magazine up, we discusses ideas and issues, but they did it their own way.

I had no idea they sneaked in programs, went to programs watch videos, 'borrowed' quite some EV documents etc. These guys are funny and not afraid of EV's guys. They really did a good journalists' job, did research, didn't trust me or EPO either in the beginning. They also thought we were some guru's underground agents .... funny !!

I only had a look at all articles (except for my interview) shortly before it got published.

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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 17:48:00 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: I can't wait to read it
Message:
If it's as comprehensive as you make it sound, this is fantastic in the extreme, JM. Really, I've said it before but thanks again. Good, good work indeed.

This WILL have repercussions, I'm sure. You should be very proud of accomplishing this.

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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 14:05:14 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Real investigative journalism!
Message:
Glad to hear that. It's good that they checked things out for themselves - makes the article much more real. However, I am sure it was helpful to have the French version of ex-premie.org on line (aren't you happy that you did all that work now!).

I can't wait to read the article - I can read French a little, but not enough - and the translation websites don't do a good job, to say the least. But I know translation is a huge task :).

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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 10:26:38 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Where?
Message:
I missed this French article. Is it online anywhere?
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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 10:35:38 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: What did you smoke?
Message:
Presentation of the magazine

What's online for the moment is a PRESENTATION/INTRODUCTION to the magazine

and a link to the editor's website where you can ORDER the magazine and know more about the editor.

Is this clear enough ?

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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 10:03:29 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Agree with every last word -- thanks so much! (nt)
Message:
vvvvvvvv
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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 13:06:22 (GMT)
From: bob
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Anglais sil vous plait
Message:
We sure would like to see this translated, this magazine like format is great to show to people, or drop off at the local TV station in the slow season!!
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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 01:58:21 (GMT)
From: Roy
Email: z
To: Everyone
Subject: Marilyn's dad ??
Message:
Not that this is of any particular interest or importance...
but.....
Wasn't Marolyn's daddy a premie? ( dale johnson.? )
I have some notion-based, no doubt, on third hand regurgitated
premie heresay that he did receive k (by the grace of his adolescent son in law.)and used to go to the rez- and was a regular blue collar guy - and Marilyn's mum became estranged by the whole affair. Anyone?
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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 10:30:57 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Roy
Subject: Marilyn's dad ??
Message:
Hi Roy,

Her dad was a premie in the 70s. I was doing 'security service' and stopped him going into a conference in Essen, because I'd been told to let nobody in after a certain time.

There was a slight uncomfortable moment, then some honcho told me to let him as he was a VIP.

He looked pissed off and uncomfortable with it all- not surprisingly. That was a long time ago.

Anth, hoping none of my kids marry a bloody gooroo.

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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 11:23:49 (GMT)
From: Mr. Mind
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: How I perverted my Service 'opportunity'
Message:
That reminded me of my time doing security service. I was told to keep the premies out of the office during Satsang at the community center. It seems that the premies had no problem using the phone to make long distance calls.

Well, I always had an attitude problem about the upper echelon premies. So they were the only ones that I would prevent from going into the office. I would give them the need to be conscious rap, i.e. stay in their seat so as not to disturb the satsang experience of their brothers and sisters. I'm sure I would have enjoyed stopping Mom's dad had I known it was he.

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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 16:09:21 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Mr. Mind
Subject: I remember a story about him
Message:
I heard a story about Marilyn's dad, something about him 'freaking out' and splitting, I guess from some cult function. They went looking for him and found him eating a hamburger at a restaurant. I don't know if I remember the story correctly or if there is any truth to this strange story.
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Date: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 19:32:14 (GMT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: G
Subject: Marolyn's Father is caught eating fish
Message:
As I recall this story, Marolyn, herself, told it at the great satsang hall in Miami Beach. Apparently, Marolyn's father was nowhere to be found. Marolyn was beginning to 'freak out' so Maharaji, himself [benevolent lard that he was] offered to look for him in the Malibu Hills.

Lo and behold--there he was munching down some fish at the local fish and chip parlour. Needless to say, the poor schmuck was mortified to come face-to-face with his Lardship while eating flesh. He started to apologize, but Maharji cut him off. 'Relax and finish your meal. We've got plenty of time. Blah, blah, blah.

Moral of the story--when stuck in the pitts, eat a few cherries whilst waiting for the Lard to come save you. The Lard never judges. The Lard always forgives. DAH, DAH, DAH!!

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Date: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 21:13:08 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Gail good to see you:-) (ot)
Message:
Nice to see old timers popping in:-)

John the getting on a bit

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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 18:44:03 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: G
Subject: The ''Freaking Out'' Story...
Message:
Hi G,

I chuckled (not at you) when I read the story about Marolyn's dad freaking out. The reason I laughed is because I heard that ''they freaked out'' phrase so much about premies who either left m, the ashram, or had some kind of mental breakdown. This is something I heard both in the 70's and 80's. In 1997 when I asked what happened to Bob Mishler, a premie said to me in a very dull tone, ''Oh he freaked out, left Maharaji and then died.''

''Freaked Out'' must be the standard phrase for when premies ''question'' Maharaji or ''disappear because they've been BAD premies...I wonder.

Cynthia

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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 23:41:19 (GMT)
From: Tony
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: I think they now call it_'they've stopped
Message:
practising'or 'they don't practise anymore'
When I first came to K,I did'nt know what the terms'freaked out','spaced out','food trip',meant.I suppose I did'nt have the drug background.After about six months ,I was like a real ex drug addict and I knew all the lingo.I even swapped my business shirts for indian cheesecloth items and got me a shoulder bag with the gurus face on it.Man I was imitating that trip to perfection,and even had folk coming up to me in the street offering me drugs.I guess this is like people who go to jail and come out streetwise and learning how to pick locks.

Cheers Tony

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 05:45:02 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Tony
Subject: VERY funny, Tony
Message:
I dare you to wear that bag around town tomorrow. Yeah, that was pretty funny. It was ALL so funny. Now, if Maharaji would just resign and give us back the money we could all settle down to really having a few laughs about it all.

Mind you, don't know if it'd be any funnier than the cutting edge Dylan or Nicholson impersonations they had at Amaroo today. Or Maharaji playing music. God, I wish I could be there!

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 06:06:52 (GMT)
From: Tony
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Hey Jim,I heard the impersonations were very
Message:
good indeed.I also heard another premie got up on stage and started giving satsang like we did 20 years ago,with all the jargon of the era,then his make believe wife came running down one of the aisles in the ampitheatre and started telling him to come home.He said only if you will do something rude for me.She agreed and made a further request to have the said deed done every night!
On the other hand as I said below,M played a synthesiser or some such instrument.It was a mixture of indian/aboriginal music.Apperently the kangaroos were seen hopping away from Amaroo in droves.Can't blame them really.
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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 06:21:42 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Tony
Subject: Aha! The old Post-Modern Cult Defense Mechanism!
Message:
So now the cult plays at a little irreverant, albeit ever-so-furtive, glance at the past. Careful, though -- this IS the same cult leader, after all, who just yesterday warned his flock:

What does it take to create doubt. Nothing. All you have to do is make a comment. One little comment creates that. Yet you don't have to be in doubt. Clarity has something to offer to you.

So it really seems like the cult is trying to have it all ways. On the one hand, it's all relaxed, 'What?-was-I-ever-that-intense?-No-not-me-or-if-I-was-that-was-one-LONG-time-ago-and-I-can-laugh-at-it-as-well-as-the-next-guy' time. On the other, the cult leader's still warning the fuck out of them. Put it all together and it doesn't make any sense:

Maharaji:

'Okay, you guys, let 'er rip. Have a good time, let's party a bit. Why, we can really let our hair down and enjoy some good, cutting edge Dylan impersonations. Maybe even get a guy down here to do a few balloon animals for you, seeing as you did pay through the nose to get here and all. And yeah, I'll be playing some tunes later. Feel free to close your eyes and go into full cult mode on that one. So relax. If we've got anything to prove to each other here it's that this is no cult and I am no cult leader. Right? Like I said on my website, I'm not ANY kind of leader. Me? I'm nothing and don't you forget it.

But, don't forget, one little comment and you're gone!

So, dear People with Knowledge, enjoy the show -- but don't forGGEEttttt......

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Date: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 06:49:15 (GMT)
From: such
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: they're probably stealin' our comedy material! (nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 00:05:07 (GMT)
From: Elan Vital
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Elan Vital Speaks French
Message:
Dear Jean Michel:
Elan Vital is dismayed and appalled that something negative about Maharaji and knowledge was published in some rag in France. We aren't surprised, though, Masters through the ages have had to put up with a lot worse. They are never accepted you know, and people always, because they are confused and bound to burn in hell for all eternity, oppose the Master. All the Masters have always been attacked, so, in that sense, all you ex-premies are just fulfilling a role that has been around for ages. Maharaji feels strongly that everything is just so beautiful, and were it not for the fact that the Pwks were so ungrateful and stingy, he would have put you all out of business years ago.

Regarding translation of the article in question, as described on the Amaroo section of the Elan Vital website, Elan Vital has set up translation in Amaroo in a number of languages, 10 to be exact: Urdo, Swahili, Crow, Souix, Esperanto, Classical and Pig Latin, Gaelic, Farsi, and English. So far, we haven't had much request for these translations, although a few Pwks were told that translation from English to English isn't really necessary, that 'Canadian,' 'Australian,' and 'American' aren't really separate languages, and that is the French are so backward as to not understand English, well then they are just too ungrateful and unsynchronized to be bothered with.

That's also why we have told people in wheelchairs to either get it together themselves, or get the hell out. Lack of synchronization will not be tolerated at Amaroo. And if anyone shows up without a Smartcard, well, we shudder to think, but it is likely they will sit for hours in the hot sun without food or water, waiting to be approved to get in And all these Pwks, seemed to have that understanding that all this is true and just so beautiful.

Nevertheless, we would be happy arrange for a translation of the article from French to English. In fact, we have already translated it, and we find that, by some miracle, it isn't negative at all, and all of it is now on the Elan Vital Website, as a history of Maharaji and his message. It's just so beautiful.

Sincerely in synchronization,

Elan Vital

Elan Vital: Absolutely not a cult since 1971

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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 00:16:18 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Elan Vital
Subject: You really should have a website for all these
Message:
EV,

Your announcements are the greatest. Perhaps you should put together a website with nothing but? Can you imagine? I can.

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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 01:07:25 (GMT)
From: Elan Vital
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: The Elan Vital Website
Message:
Dear Satanic, Poor, Confused, Not Understanding, Ungrateful Subhuam, Jim, for whom we feel sorry in a very condescending and superior fashion:

Elan Vital already has a very synchronized website that you would find very interesting and informative. Of course, we at Elan Vital are always just trying to do our jobs better, so any comments you might have to make it even better would be considered, of course. All of Elan Vital's announcements can be found there. Also, answers to questions, which we believe have been frequently, in fact almost constantly, asked, are included there.

In fact, there are 10 questions that we get asked most frequently and spontaneously-- at least 50 times every day from people all over the world. It's just so amazing that people ask such similar questions. They are:

1. Why doesn't Maharaji or Elan Vital charge for Knowledge? How can something so wonderful be free? Is this too good to be true? How can Maharaji be so simple and direct in what he says? Why is he such a wonderful speaker? Has he been speaking in front of large numbers of people since he was 2?

2. Are Maharaji's speeches available on videotape or satellite transmissions? Does he travel the world to spread knowledge? How many gallons of gas has he used in fulfilling his mission? Do you have bar graphs that show the number of miles he travelled this year compared to last year? Are they impressive? Do you have other, impressive statistics, like how many gallons of Chai were drunk at the last event in India that you can tell us? Do you have impressive bar graphs that show this?

3. Does Maharaji have training as a pilot and what kind of planes can he fly? Is he certified to fly really big and impressive planes, like a Boeing 707? Are the planes he flies leased from another corporation and everything like that, leading us to think that the plane isn't for his exclusive use? Do you have other information that makes us think Maharaji doesn't really live that well, but works very hard?

4. How impressed are people when it comes to all the impressive and enigmatic things Maharaji has done in his life? How impressive is it? Are you impressed? How long have you been impressed, and do you have bar graphs showing how your level of being impressed as grown from last year at this time? Are those graphs impressive?

5. What are some of the cute and endearing stories about Maharaji as a young child that you can tell us, and how did he demonstrate his skill and abilities at a young age? Do you have cute and endearing photographs to go along with these stories? Just how much of an unbelievably gifted teacher and genius was Maharaji, and still is? Do you have bar graphs that both impressive and colorful that show this?

6. Although Maharaji does not claim direct lineage, are there
'Masters' from the past that just by mentioning them and showing their pictures, they lend and implication of legitimacy and spirituality to Maharaji, while leaving him free to deny making as such claims? Can we see some of those pictures? Are they impressive?

7. How ignorant and confused does one have to be to criticize Maharaji for living an obviously successful lifestyle? Can you tell us Maharaji's views on not discriminating against people who are successful? Are there impressive and successful people have Maharaji as a master? Do they have their own businesses and live in really nice houses in places like upstate New York? Do they retire in nice places like Wales?

8. What are some of the characteristics of Elan Vital that demonstrate that Elan Vital is not a cult? For example, does Elan Vital refrain from engaging in mass suicides, forced marriages among people who have never met in Madison Square Garden, forced shaving of heads and genitals, or the drinking of the blood of children? What other things does Elan Vital not do that the most strange and bizarre cults do, that would lead one to realize Elan Vital isn't a cult? Do you have an impressive matrix that summarizes these things in a fashion that any idiot should able to understand and be impressed by?

9. What do you think are the motivations of people who make vicious, unwarranted, and mostly anonymous attacks against Maharaji and Elan Vital on the internet? Is is because they are upset that Maharaji got rid of Hindu concepts and rituals, closed the ashrams because the drug culture was over, and refuses to let people worship him as God? Is that why? Are those people just upset and unwilling to let Maharaji be who he is and not who they want him to be? Are they confused and ignorant, stubborn and stupid and should be pitied? Do they just lack the effort to experience the simple gift of knowledge, which, if they just made a little effort would be so beautiful and answer all their confusions?. Is that the problem?

10. Was Maharaji's mother, being a Hindu national, a problem for Maharaji when he was young and wanted to simplify things? Was his genius nature the reason he started having sex with a 24-year-old-woman at the age of 15? Why did that woman engage in statutory rape and have sex with him at such a young age? Was this Maharaji's mother's fault? Are any indications that his followers adulate Maharaji caused by the biases of a neutral observer?

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Date: Tues, Apr 24, 2001 at 23:33:51 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Everyone
Subject: Knowledge as 'revealed' is just a recipe...
Message:
Imagine your neighbour or best friend passes on (or 'reveals') some cool recipe or cookery tips - maybe something handed down from your mum which she read in a magazine whilst waiting for the dentist.

Imagine said recipe turns out to be the best thing since sliced sushi. Then what...? Do you:

(a) decide the passer-on of said recipe is obviously a master chef?

(b) realise said passer-on is therefore worthy of gratitude and monthly cash donations for the rest of your life?

(c) decide you'll hereafter travel round the planet to listen to said revealer of special recipe on account of their unproven cookery expertise?

(or all three).

So what's the difference?

Answers on a postal order please to:

Nige

'May you leave no turn unstoned and let bygones be byg ones.'
(San Kabeer)


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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 12:26:45 (GMT)
From: Moldy Warp
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Well - being rather fond of chefs myself
Message:
I would most definitely do all three (a, b, and c)- but maybe wouldn't do 'b' (cash donations) so enthusiastically (being fond of a free meal or two)
But then (eventually, being somewot slow in these matters) I would realise that the food was NOT that nummy or special at all.
So I would experiment with my own recipes.
Whilst always wondering if there was a chef that could fill my tummy!

Moldy Warp whose turned up all the stones and found many interesting things underneath them

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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 18:46:24 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Moldy Warp
Subject: I know one chef who will fatten you up in no time
Message:
But you will have to come to San Francisco for the meal as I don't deliver to UK.
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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 18:53:46 (GMT)
From: Moldy Warp
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: I know one chef who will fatten you up in no time
Message:
Yummy - will E mail v soon xx
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Date: Tues, Apr 24, 2001 at 17:21:44 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: 'extemporary inspiration at its most profound' -
Message:
- or, 'what is this guy on, exactly?'

.
.
.
This just in from EV: today's Amaroo excerpt

'Maharaji’s students were treated to an example of extemporary inspiration at its most profound'

quote:

'We say, 'This is my concept, this is my belief, this is my idea, this
is how it is.' So then, what is the practical value of knowing? Not
to speculate but to know, and not about tomorrow but about
now. To know about this life, to know that you exist. People are
like that, they say, 'Don’t tell me I exist. I know I exist.' No you
don’t, that’s the problem. You only find that out when you get hit
and you find yourself flat in the gutter. That’s when you go, 'Oh
my god, I exist. What happened?'

Somebody comes along and says to you, 'Know'.
Not ‘no’, ‘know’. I guess when they were coming
up with the English language they figured not
many people are going to know, so let’s make
both words the same. 'No, no, no. I don’t know.'
That which you are supposed to know you don’t.
No know. And historically, people say to that
person, 'You are wrong'. To those who are truly
wrong they don’t have the guts to say, 'You’re
wrong.' To that one person who is trying to
deliver the message, 'Hey, wake up,' they say
'You’re wrong.' Later it’s very easy. 'Oh, you were the greatest. I
love your work, you were incredible, such wisdom.' During that
time? No such animal.'

enquote

.
.
.
Profound did they say?

Profoundly incomprehensible, perhaps.

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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 12:18:08 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: That figures
Message:
Hmmn,

So premies only know they exist when they are in the gutter. That figures. I suppose they have to keep breathing while they're there though, otherwise they might miss the experience.

Anth, who can't believe people swallow this bullshit (gulp- I spat it out OK. I'm a nice boy.)

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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 11:04:29 (GMT)
From: Bryn
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: 'extemporary inspiration at its most profound' -
Message:
Just read the Amaroo transcript. The way this man uses language is ridiculous. He doesn't talk, he smears.
Listening to this stuff with a touch of fatigue and jet-lag could seriously un-balance you.
Phew. To think that at one stage I was actually asking myself 'am I going to Amaroo this time?'
But your not supposed to listen to the words though are you...!
love Bryn
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Date: Tues, Apr 24, 2001 at 19:23:37 (GMT)
From: Gerry
Email: None
To: all
Subject: The core expression of this quote:
Message:
To that one person who is trying to deliver the message, 'Hey, wake up,' they say 'You’re wrong.'

Later it’s very easy. 'Oh, you were the greatest. I love your work, you were incredible, such wisdom.'

During that time? No such animal.'

This means that the 'Perfect Master' of the time is often rejected by his contemporaries. 'Just look at what happened to Jesus,' is what he'd really like to say. Of course, he hasn't the intestinal fortitude to say this clearly so he says it slyly knowing his followers will wink and nod in self-satisfied recognition of their own 'spiritual discernment.'

It's an oblique reference to his opponents, and of course, a cowardly, deceitful evasion.

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Date: Tues, Apr 24, 2001 at 19:16:02 (GMT)
From: jondon
Email: None
To: all
Subject: Just say Know
Message:
I did not understand a fucking sentence. This guy is still smoking the pipe, only now it is filled with crack.
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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 14:26:06 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: jondon
Subject: Hmm, does M use cocaine?
Message:
It's the sort of drug which allows one to burble with confidence for hours. It also makes God taste like snot (or vice-versa!)
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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 19:02:21 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Cocaine - the ego-tripping drug
Message:
That very thought has often crossed my mind. A line or two would get him through a few hours on stage and then he really nips out of there fast nowadays - for a shot of cognac to calm the trembling?
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Date: Tues, Apr 24, 2001 at 18:17:33 (GMT)
From: kev
Email: None
To: m
Subject: 'extemporary inspiration at its most profound' -
Message:
Wow, thanks Maharaji for telling me that I exist. I didn't KNOW that, duh!!!! How stupid am I not to realise that one? Thanks again for pointing out the fucking obvious m.
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Date: Tues, Apr 24, 2001 at 18:39:03 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: kev
Subject: actually he says we don't exist ...
Message:
People are like that, they say, 'Don’t tell me I exist. I know I exist.' No you don’t, that’s the problem.

Like I said, what's he on?

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Date: Tues, Apr 24, 2001 at 21:48:27 (GMT)
From: kev
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: actually he says we don't exist ...
Message:
Your right cq, he does say we don't exist. I try to read it all again but fell asleep half way through. I don't KNOW what his on either but whatever it is it's not doing him much good.

kev, who is more angry with m than he realised.

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Date: Tues, Apr 24, 2001 at 19:11:13 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Brain farts, mind burps or cerebral diarrhoea?
Message:
Whenever Rev Moon Beam Rawat used to accuse premies' thinking of being brain farts I used to think, ''Pot calling the kettle black.'' The devotees would be just as contented if he sang arti out of his anus while manipulating his sphincter to produce different notes.

In Burroughs' ''Naked Lunch'' this comedian has a stage act where he talks out of his asshole. His asshole begins to extemporize in an inspired manner. The asshole's ad-libs become more popular than the comedian's own jokes.

The asshole becomes puffed up with pride and begins to demand its rights. The comedian is chagrinned when the ashole begins to chew its way out of his pants and to demand its rights in public, on the New York subway and in other crowded areas. The asshole eventually demands to be fed.

One day the comedian wakes up to find a gelatinous substance covering his mouth. He scrapes it off but each morning it is back and each time it is more difficult to remove. Eventually the comedian can no longer remove the growth from this mouth and the asshole's triumph is complete.

However the asshole becomes more arrogant by the day and also more libidinous. It becomes a sexual predator and learns how to extend itself outwards and go in search of penises. Yes, it's a queer asshole just like Burroughs.

Unfortunately one day as the comedian is driving in the successful asshole's new convertible sports-car, the asshole spots the perfect penis and snakes right out of the car only to find itself suddenly wrapped around the rear axle. The comedian was turned inside out. That's really within inside of you.

Every time Jim or someone posts ELK droppings or Rev Strangelove's brain farts I want to tell this story. Sorry if it grosses out those with a less scatological sense of humor. But I think you'll enjoy the joke, cq.

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Date: Tues, Apr 24, 2001 at 19:28:33 (GMT)
From: Gregg
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Wm. Burroughs (nuthin to do wit Rev. Moonbeam)
Message:
I grew up in the same town as Burroughs had, so reading his works I sometimes find the names of the streets I grew up on. (This was in Ladue, a suburb of St. Louis.)

I remember coming back from college all excited about this new writer I'd found and my mom, horrified, said something along the lines of 'That degenerate!' Turns out her parents were friends of Wm. Burroughs' parents.

Of course, if anyone was a 'degenerate' (and proud of it) Burroughs would qualify.

Now I require a little narrative in my novels and a little melody in my music, but, back then, Burroughs and late Coltrane were the bees knees to me.

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Date: Tues, Apr 24, 2001 at 19:27:06 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Brain farts, mind burps or cerebral diarrhoea?
Message:
and wasn't it Kurt Vonnegut's 'Breakfast of Champions' where inhabitants of a certain planet communicate purely by flatulation? Maybe M could learn something from them.

Gross sense of humour? Check this:


With more than enough time on his hands (as usual) Maharaji one day decides to visit the LA Zoo, where he's immediately attracted by the ape compound.

In a large cage there are a couple of orang-utans, one male the other female, both looking very dejected.

Maharaji goes up to the animals' keeper and asks him why they look so glum.

'She's in season', says the keeper, 'and very eager to mate, but the male seems to have no idea what to do. He's hopeless, just wanders around looking lost. In fact, we're so keen on getting this pair to breed that the management's come up with a very unusual idea.'

'What's that?' asks the Maha.

'They want a human male to dress up in an ape suit and go into the cage and show the male orang how to do it'

'Really?' says M

'Yup, we're just waiting for the right guy to make us an offer. There'd be a $1000 bucks in it.'

'You've found your man' says the Maha, 'but I insist on three conditions'.

'oh yeah?' says the keeper, 'and they are ...?'

'One', says M, 'she's got to put a bucket on her head, just in case she gets too friendly and tries to give me a kiss'.

'Two, if any hybrid offspring result, i want them brought up in the true faith - premies, OK?'

'Sounds OK' says the keeper 'and what's the third condition?'

'About that $1000...' says Maharaji, '... will you take a cheque?'

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Date: Tues, Apr 24, 2001 at 23:55:49 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: great joke, cq -- still laughing (nt)
Message:
lllllll
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Date: Tues, Apr 24, 2001 at 23:26:41 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Naked Lunch at the Pavillion...
Message:
Very funny. Pat, were you referring to the book or the movie, Naked Lunch? Loved your recap of it, either way...

The opening Amaroo event was quite boring, I'm sure...yes, here's Capt. Rawat with him gems of wisdom and well-wishing...my favoite lines out of the above quote are:

...'Don’t tell me I exist. I know I exist.' No you don’t, that’s the problem. You only find that out when you get hit and you find yourself flat in the gutter. That’s when you go, 'Oh my god, I exist. What happened?'

So, one must find themselves in the gutter to realize their own existence? My, my, he's sounding rather...hmmmm...'70ish, don't you think? I do.

When I clicked on that website, I noticed how polished the shot was, white canopy...rather looks like a Boston Pops or Jazz event at Tanglewood in the Berkshires. The only difference is THERE AREN'T AS MANY PEOPLE AT AMAROO!!!

LOL, thanks for the laughs!
Love,
Cynthia

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Date: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 00:00:53 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Naked Lunch at the Pavillion...
Message:
The book, Cynthia. The movie was nothing like the book which is impossible to make into a movie as it is shapeless. It also has much funnier bits in it than the movie which was quite gloomy and noir.
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