Susan -:- more help for Pia -:- Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 00:10:38 (GMT)

__ G -:- But crazed premies made him wear that stuff! -:- Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 00:56:43 (GMT)

__ __ Susan -:- LOL yes that must be it... -:- Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 17:31:32 (GMT)

__ Susan -:- my favorite it isn't a cult it's really not pic -:- Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 00:17:09 (GMT)

__ __ Susan -:- more help for Pia... -:- Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 00:29:29 (GMT)

__ __ __ Jim -:- Funny, that's not my experience -:- Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 00:41:37 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Way -:- It was different for me, too -:- Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 15:31:17 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Susan -:- How about this one? -:- Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 01:12:28 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Susan -:- Oh Pia.....? Dare ya to post this one..... -:- Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 01:15:36 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Connie -:- Where were those posters on Pia's site when -:- Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 07:54:17 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- Good post,, Connie - sums it up perfectly (nt) -:- Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 13:07:22 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- oh but Connie, it's called evolution -:- Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 08:59:51 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Connie -:- Pat, LOL -:- Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 13:33:06 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- It's dem Lotus Feet, Connie -:- Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 21:06:08 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Deborah -:- Good one - The snail has left a trail, No? ...nt -:- Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 02:57:58 (GMT)

Joe -:- Musings of Dr. Ed -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 23:56:25 (GMT)

__ The Horsey's Mouth -:- Typo, was actually from Mr. Ed (nt) -:- Fri, Jun 08, 2001 at 06:57:38 (GMT)

__ Been There -:- Ed and M go back a long way -:- Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 19:39:21 (GMT)

__ __ Disculta -:- I knew Dr. Ed too -:- Fri, Jun 08, 2001 at 15:40:44 (GMT)

__ __ Joe -:- So very bizarre -:- Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 23:04:22 (GMT)

__ __ __ PatC -:- So very bizarre - PWKs 'need a social conscience' -:- Fri, Jun 08, 2001 at 07:28:54 (GMT)

__ __ Way -:- To Been There, and to Dr. Edd -:- Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 21:04:40 (GMT)

__ __ __ Been There -:- To Way re Strings -:- Fri, Jun 08, 2001 at 07:02:10 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Way -:- To Been There re Strings -:- Fri, Jun 08, 2001 at 15:07:24 (GMT)

__ Danny -:- Musings of Dr. Ed -:- Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 07:50:55 (GMT)

__ __ Joe -:- Danny, you are so silly -:- Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 16:33:48 (GMT)

__ __ __ Danny -:- Falsely accused, Hercule! -:- Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 17:08:43 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Susan -:- Hi Danny how are you? -:- Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 17:19:11 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Susan -:- oops meant Prostate (gland) not Prostrate(darshan) -:- Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 19:45:04 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- And 'finger' not 'finder'? (v. Freudian! ;) nt. -:- Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 21:50:42 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Joe -:- So, you are a different Danny? -:- Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 17:13:19 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Danny -:- So, you are a different Danny? -:- Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 19:31:05 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Susan -:- Hmmmm..not a Munter since '71 -:- Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 19:49:41 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- Danny still has a mustache? Oh, no. -:- Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 19:35:34 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Susan -:- Do you deny being Danny Munter? -:- Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 17:21:00 (GMT)

__ __ Nigel -:- Presumably a well-paid physician? -:- Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 14:17:54 (GMT)

__ __ Jerry -:- Musings of Dr. Ed -:- Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 13:11:32 (GMT)

__ Marianne -:- He's in the net -:- Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 00:40:44 (GMT)

__ __ Mark -:- Ed and John are my Doctors! -:- Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 07:04:43 (GMT)

__ __ __ Susan -:- I went to a premie dentist on Miami Beach -:- Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 17:26:13 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ jsk -:- I went to a premie dentist on Miami Beach -:- Fri, Jun 08, 2001 at 14:37:45 (GMT)

__ __ __ Joe -:- Huh? -:- Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 17:17:19 (GMT)

__ __ __ Jim -:- What's THAT mean, Mark? -:- Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 15:58:55 (GMT)

__ __ __ PatC -:- Two of my premie friends who happen to be famous -:- Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 08:16:58 (GMT)

__ __ Mercedes -:- He's in the net -:- Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 01:39:19 (GMT)

__ __ __ Marianne -:- Dr. Ed is associated with John Horton, MD -:- Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 05:39:28 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Way -:- What a let-down -:- Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 16:00:25 (GMT)

Forum Admin -:- We need your help guys -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 23:26:47 (GMT)

__ Daneane -:- We need your help guys -:- Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 02:15:08 (GMT)

__ __ Daneane -:- oops -:- Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 02:19:09 (GMT)

__ __ __ Selene -:- thing is Daneane -:- Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 02:27:21 (GMT)

__ Selene -:- report them to their ISP and to others -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 23:48:29 (GMT)

__ __ Salam -:- report them to their ISP and to others -:- Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 03:05:18 (GMT)

__ __ __ Selene -:- what don't you have what you thought you had? -:- Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 03:13:54 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ salam -:- the url you mentioned in you post -:- Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 03:26:27 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- it's SANS Institute -:- Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 05:32:23 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ salam -:- it's SANS Institute -:- Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 08:01:43 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- ok well I am sick and all and hey FA -:- Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 14:28:12 (GMT)

__ __ FA -:- thanks Selene, will do nt -:- Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 00:24:33 (GMT)

__ PatC -:- Well done, Sherlock! -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 23:31:38 (GMT)

Francesca -:- EV is a CHURCH -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 22:52:21 (GMT)

__ PatC -:- A CHURCH is defined as an entity having -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 23:57:26 (GMT)

__ __ Francesca -:- EV is LEGALLY a CHURCH -:- Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 00:05:29 (GMT)

__ __ __ PatC -:- Now they will have to publish their religious -:- Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 01:40:03 (GMT)

__ __ __ Cynthia -:- YES! I knew it! Thank you... -:- Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 01:28:08 (GMT)

__ suchabanana -:- Elan Vital:assets= 0;income= 0;diverted to Seva(nt -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 23:13:42 (GMT)

__ Dermot -:- Holy name Batman ..it is !! (nt) -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 22:57:13 (GMT)

__ __ Moldy Warp -:- Bloody Hell ! (nt) -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 23:01:50 (GMT)

creativejani -:- miragey's 'email' option disabled? -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 21:17:20 (GMT)

Dermot -:- Check out Pia's site...complete re-vamp (nt) -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 20:55:08 (GMT)

__ G -:- the intros look similar -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 23:53:15 (GMT)

__ SuchaBanana republica -:- Check out: Medillin,Colombia money connection (nt -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 23:04:49 (GMT)

__ Francesca -:- Snore -- all from supporters -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 23:02:55 (GMT)

__ __ Jim -:- Yeah, that's why I wrote her THIS letter -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 23:30:01 (GMT)

__ __ __ Mercedes -:- Thank you Jim N/T -:- Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 01:52:06 (GMT)

__ Susan -:- Cults by Marc Galanter -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 23:01:16 (GMT)

__ __ Nigel -:- Bizarre, but sort-of understandable.... -:- Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 17:36:58 (GMT)

__ __ Good Job, Susan! -:- Everyone READ SUSAN'S POST It's Hilarious nt -:- Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 15:13:39 (GMT)

__ Steve Quint -:- Is This The Best Maharaji's Supporters Can Do? -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 21:57:14 (GMT)

__ AJW -:- New Pictures are Coming. -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 21:53:23 (GMT)

__ __ Dermot -:- And this PEARL, Anth.... -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 22:02:45 (GMT)

__ __ __ AJW -:- Remember those movies -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 22:12:08 (GMT)

__ AJW -:- It's getting better all the time. -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 21:19:18 (GMT)

__ __ AJW -:- Hernando, I love you. -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 21:29:54 (GMT)

__ __ __ kev -:- Hernando, I love you??? -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 21:54:09 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ AJW -:- Hernando, I love you??? -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 21:58:16 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ kev -:- Hernando, I love you??? -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 22:14:15 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Dermot -:- Hernando, I love you???////Kev -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 22:17:58 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Kev -:- Dermot and Anth, still not working!!! -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 22:33:24 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ kev -:- Dermot and Anth, found them. -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 22:55:11 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Dermot -:- g'night Kev (nt) -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 22:58:39 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- Try 'Refresh' kev. -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 22:16:40 (GMT)

__ Deborah -:- POSTINGS at Pia's Propaganda Page -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 21:18:21 (GMT)

__ __ Dermot -:- Deb...backbutton -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 22:06:29 (GMT)

__ Kelly -:- Can someone give me a link, -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 21:11:27 (GMT)

__ __ Dermot -:- Sorry Kelly -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 22:11:32 (GMT)

__ __ __ Kelly -:- Thanks for the link..but... -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 22:29:22 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Dermot -:- Kelly .....you have to include -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 22:43:25 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Kelly -:- Hey, I'm just trying to get through to 'it ain't s -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 22:48:37 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Dermot -:- Any techies? could they know if you've come from -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 22:54:10 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ JohnT -:- Any techies? could they know if you've come from -:- Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 11:56:37 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Dermot -:- Any techies? could they know if you've come from -:- Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 16:31:57 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ JohnT -:- Any techies? could they know if you've come from -:- Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 22:15:59 (GMT)

__ __ gerry -:- here ya go Kelly -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 21:19:56 (GMT)

__ __ __ Cynthia -:- Say this over and over..... -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 22:27:00 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ AJW -:- It's going like a rocket. -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 22:30:04 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Moldy Warp -:- Spooky - I went to 'staff articles' and it blank! -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 22:55:04 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Moldy Warp -:- OOPs meant it WAS blank! -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 22:56:26 (GMT)

Michele Deradune -:- 3 Favorite Quotes (both on and off topic) -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 19:09:01 (GMT)

__ creativejani -:- You still here? Thought you were never going to -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 21:23:04 (GMT)

__ AJW -:- Michele, you remind me of a calendar. -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 20:54:09 (GMT)

__ __ PatC The Fat Fag -:- Anth, you remind me of a colander. -:- Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 05:28:04 (GMT)

__ Mark Appleman -:- 3 Favorite Quotes (both on and off topic) -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 20:48:45 (GMT)

__ __ PatC -:- What a nice, kind, sweet message, Mark -:- Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 01:49:17 (GMT)

__ __ bill -:- read this one ^ sanford......nt -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 22:42:44 (GMT)

__ __ Kelly -:- Very interesting post Mark. -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 21:38:06 (GMT)

__ __ Monmot -:- 3 Favorite Quotes (both on and off topic) -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 21:21:12 (GMT)

__ Francesca -:- House of Lords -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 19:29:27 (GMT)

__ __ PatC -:- Prefer the House of Commons -:- Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 08:41:04 (GMT)

__ __ Tim G -:- Great Post Francesca. nt -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 20:05:56 (GMT)

__ __ __ Cynthia -:- Beautiful, Francesca! What a writer! n/t -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 20:19:43 (GMT)

__ Monmot -:- One Of My Faves--And Very Apropos To Cult Think -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 19:21:42 (GMT)

__ __ Nigel -:- And my favourite...? -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 20:40:10 (GMT)

__ __ __ Monmot -:- And my favourite...? -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 21:24:28 (GMT)

__ Moldy Warp -:- 3 Favorite Quotes (both on and off topic) -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 19:14:49 (GMT)

__ __ Cynth -:- Here's some quotes.... -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 20:15:39 (GMT)

__ __ __ Francesca -:- Bravo -- I'll remember to get my skeleton to dance -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 21:36:18 (GMT)

__ __ __ Steve Quint -:- Great Post -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 20:25:34 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ DavidM2 -:- Hightower -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 21:08:35 (GMT)

Jim -:- Check out the updated parallel universe -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 16:07:25 (GMT)

__ WMary -:- Had me going all along -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 19:57:57 (GMT)

__ __ such -:- satpal ratwat hisself [formerly bubblegumji] (nt -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 20:22:11 (GMT)

__ such -:- 'bequeathing his mission... to his eldest son' (nt -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 17:55:46 (GMT)

__ Jerry -:- Check out the updated parallel universe -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 17:12:28 (GMT)

__ __ exie -:- Check out the updated parallel universe -:- Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 21:05:40 (GMT)

Nigel -:- The genie's well and truly out of the bottle... -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 13:07:56 (GMT)

__ Jim -:- So true. Completely true. -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 15:37:39 (GMT)

__ __ Nigel -:- And premies will ask: WHAT 'ain't so'???? -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 16:51:54 (GMT)

__ __ __ gerry -:- This is a tragedy for Pia -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 17:13:57 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Sandy -:- I disagree, gerry, it could be helping her -:- Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 14:25:07 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- I agree Sandy -:- Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 14:48:02 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Sandy -:- Why, Nigel, how kind of you to say so.... -:- Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 17:59:53 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- I disagree, Sandy... -:- Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 20:28:19 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ AJW -:- I completely agree with you gerry. (nt) -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 22:01:14 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ such -:- Pia: Premie In Angst (nt -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 17:50:09 (GMT)

__ __ la-ex -:- isn't this the 'tar baby'?(right story or not?)?nt -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 16:09:12 (GMT)

Jim -:- Who can say this woman's not in a cult? Who? -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 12:39:41 (GMT)

__ such -:- Robin Hood, Robin Hood riding through the glen -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 17:38:29 (GMT)

__ Cynthia -:- ''In Sherwood Forest my heart will rest???'' -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 17:35:42 (GMT)

__ __ such -:- Q: who steals from the poor and gives 2B rich?! -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 17:45:46 (GMT)

__ Gary -:- Who can say this woman's not in a cult? Who? -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 15:29:10 (GMT)

__ Bryn -:- She is enchanted by the word 'Nottingham'! -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 14:15:26 (GMT)

__ __ Bin Liner -:- She is enchanted by the word 'Nottingham'! -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 19:33:55 (GMT)

__ __ __ AJW -:- Nottingham is named after Snot. -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 21:01:05 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ gerry -:- I believe it, Anth -:- Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 15:52:27 (GMT)

__ AJW -:- Who can say this woman's not in a cult? Who? -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 14:13:28 (GMT)

__ __ Jim -:- I heard they're actually inviting moonies too -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 15:05:27 (GMT)

__ __ __ AJW -:- If it gets really bad... -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 21:04:54 (GMT)

__ Moldy Warp -:- Who can say this woman's not in Sherwood Forest? -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 13:58:46 (GMT)

Larkin -:- All-purpose devotional song - 4 premies AND exes -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 11:08:36 (GMT)

__ Deborah -:- This is Very Very Funny, Larkin..Thanks .... nt -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 19:22:04 (GMT)

__ Dermot -:- Pornolised EX version or -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 15:37:29 (GMT)

__ __ Jim -:- THAT'S SO BEAUTIFUL, DERMOT! (nt) -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 15:39:10 (GMT)

__ Michele Deradune -:- Larkin's post above disses Maharaji (NT) -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 11:55:00 (GMT)

__ __ Dermot -:- Thanjs for warning Michele..appreciated :) (nt) -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 15:38:59 (GMT)

__ __ AJW -:- Yeah. Fuck him. (NT) -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 13:59:02 (GMT)

__ __ Larkin -:- In your imagination. But 'if the cap fits..' -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 11:58:26 (GMT)

__ __ __ Deborah -:- HA HA HA! Where does the poem mention Maharaji? nt -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 19:24:39 (GMT)

__ __ JHB -:- Shock - this entire forum disses Maharaji! (nt) -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 11:57:52 (GMT)

__ Steve Quint -:- You're An Insomniac's Dream Come True nt -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 11:37:03 (GMT)

Jean-Michel -:- The Combat review now online !! (in French) -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 08:02:07 (GMT)

__ Disculta -:- Mon cher frere -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 18:13:08 (GMT)

__ __ Jean-Michel -:- You know what's most funny? -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 20:59:10 (GMT)

__ suchabanana -:- translator link: http://world.altavista.com/ (nt -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 17:15:59 (GMT)

__ Jim -:- Hey, this is better than the Pornolizer! -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 13:05:25 (GMT)

__ __ janet -:- thats awful, but hysterical. read mine-i translate -:- Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 07:23:45 (GMT)

__ __ Steve Quint -:- Speaking Of Pornolizer -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 15:19:26 (GMT)

__ __ __ Jim -:- He DIIIID?? -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 15:48:57 (GMT)

__ __ Dermot -:- Hey, this is better than the Pornolizer!..LOL (NT) -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 15:13:06 (GMT)

__ __ Moldy Warp -:- Warning Don't read Jim's post if you are consuming -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 14:19:08 (GMT)

__ janet -:- my work is cut out for me. i'll get started. -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 10:41:00 (GMT)

__ __ Jean-Michel -:- email it to me, BUT -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 16:23:06 (GMT)

__ __ Francesca -:- my work is cut out for me. i'll get started. -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 15:17:26 (GMT)

__ __ Dermot -:- Thanks Janet (nt) -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 15:15:50 (GMT)

Date: Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 00:10:38 (GMT) From: Susan Email: None To: Everyone Subject: more help for Pia Message:

Pia needs pics of Maharaji and quotes of what he said. DLM/EV papers has lots of those how about this one pic for Pia's we're not a cult we really aren't site these prove for sure it was NEVER a cult

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Date: Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 00:56:43 (GMT) From: G Email: None To: Susan Subject: But crazed premies made him wear that stuff! Message:

That's right, some crazy ashram premies, after listening to some wacky Mahatmas lay some Hindu concepts on them, attacked Maharaj (who some say is simply divine), stripped him, then put that absurd Krishna outfit on him, plunked the Krishna Krown on his Kooky head, put the Divine Flute in his hand, and then pushed him onto the stage. Then they shot at his feet to make him wobble, ah, I mean dance. Oops, did I say his Kooky head? Forgot, not supposed to doubt Master, only EV and premies, and of course everyone else, especially those evil ex-premies. Maharaji GOOOOOD ex-premies BAAAAAD G's alter ego

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Date: Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 17:31:32 (GMT) From: Susan Email: None To: G Subject: LOL yes that must be it... Message:

Michael Dettmers and Bob Mishler got together and DRUGGED the guru and made him ride in that Chariot half naked with the flower gear.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 00:17:09 (GMT) From: Susan Email: None To: Susan Subject: my favorite it isn't a cult it's really not pic Message:

he doesn't look like Jim Jones, his followers do not look like moonies, he isn't a horse's ass and it isn't a cult it's really not

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Date: Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 00:29:29 (GMT) From: Susan Email: None To: Susan Subject: more help for Pia... Message:

'Who is Guru? The highest manifestation of God is Guru. So when Guru is here, God is here, to whom will you give your devotion? Guru Maharaj Ji knows all. Guru Maharaji is Brahma (creator). Guru Maharaji is Vishnu (Operator). Guru Maharjai is Shiva (Destroyer of illusion and ego). And above all, Guru Mahraji is the Supremest Lord in person before us. I have come so powerful. I have come for the world. Whenever the great come,the worldly oppose them. Again I have come and you are not listening. Every ear should hear that the saviour of humanity has come. There should be no chance for anyone to say that they haven't heard of Guru Maharaj Ji. Those who have come to me are already saved. Now its your duty to save others. Shout it on the streets. Why be shy? When human beings forget the religion of humanity, the Supreme Lord incarnates. He takes a body and comes on this earth ...... When human beings forget this one way, then our Lord, who is the Lord of the whole universe, comes in human body to give us practical Knowlege, ....But, most ironically, we don't appreciate the Lord when He comes in His human body on this earth. Similarly, a Satguru, a Perfect Master, a Supreme Lord who is existing in the present time, can give you the practical Knowledge of the real thing... So God Himself comes to give practical Knowledge of His divinity, of His inner self, which is self-effulgent light, eternal light, all-pervading light. And the Supreme Master, the Satguru, gives practical Knowledge of that light, irrespective of caste, creed, color, religion or sex, to those human individuals who bow before him with reverence, with love and with faith.' (Various excerpts - Who Is Guru Maharaj Ji) 'Just see, today this word 'guru' has become a ridiculous term, a sort of a joke and people do not know what is a 'guru'. When I fly a plane in India, I often listen to the radio in the cockpit. There are talks going on between various pilots in the vicinity. Somebody would address: ''Well Guru, how are you?' Because they do not know the true meaning and implications. They don't understand the glory of a guru and Master. Because they have forgotten altogether. They have made such pseudo-guru who have put the whole system to disrepute. For instance, in schools they don't know the correct meaning of a couplet like: The radiance radiated from my beloved is of suds an amazing hue ... They say, 'oh yes, because Kabir saw a sort of redness...' But what sort of redness was it? Such so-called gurus have marred the reputation of this institution. It has been ruined. Actually the guru is such a personality about whom it is said: « I bow down to the lotusfeet of my Guru Maharaji, who is the ocean of mercy and is actually Hari (God) himself in human form, And whose words are like sunbeams to disperse the accumulated darkness of gross ignorance. » So Tulsidas says that he bows down to such a Guru Maharaji, the Master, who is really Hari (Supreme Power) in the form of man. So the main thing to understand here is that he bows down to the feet of that guru whose utterances, whose expressions are able to illuminate. And what is that which is illuminated by his words? It is the heart which is illuminated. His words are able to sever and dispel the spidery web of illusion, infatuation and ignorance. This I have seen myself and realized in my own heart. Yes, in my heart!' (Excerpt from M’s discourse at Shri Sant Yogashram, New Delhi, India - November 9, 1990 - Published in : ‘Life Force’ Volume 7, Issue 2, April-June 1991 - by : Divine United Organization, Shri Sant Yogashram, Shahurpur, Mehrauli, New Delhi 110 030, India). Read the whole satsang online. AND now I'll tell you of devotion. Devotion is a two-way ticket. But with this two-way ticket, you don't go there to Mukti (Liberation). You don't go to that place. You don't go to liberation, but you stay here and this is devotion. Every benefit that you were supposed to have in liberation, you will get. That means being away from Karma, away from actions and always in the bliss, and the radiance of the Lord. That place will be given to you while you are on the earth with the Lord; with the human form, with the physical presence of the Lord. That is called devotion. As long as the devotee is there, the Lord can project devotion out of him. Understood ? You know, if there is no devotee, how can there be devotion ? Can there be devotion without devotee ? How can there be ? There can't. So, if there is devotion, there has to be devotee. Have you understood now ? And if there has to be devotee, he has to be in a physical form. A devotee has to devote something. Have you understood now ? To devote something, he has to be in a physical form. And where is it possible for him to be in physical form ? On the earth. And with whom can he be in the physical form ? With the Lord, who is in His physical form ! He has to be with the Physical Lord who has come into this physical world with a Physical Body. Understood. (Guru Maharaj Ji - Essen, Germany - August 31, 1975) GOD made two things, two cars - one automatic, one manual. One who has devoted whole life to Guru Maharaj Ji, they are in manual condition. It is in my hand to put them in gear. No desire. Other is automatic. Gear is there. Gear has to be shifted. Those who have not yet devoted to me for all life. Powers you have that create desires. Those desires can be good or bad. You must see what to do with desires that are good, and those that are bad. In manual, I shift to gear after gear, but automatic does what it likes. Gears have been put, now there is only an accelerator. You will have to be like this premie, to devote your whole life to me. Agya is the only accelerator. If you want to be in manual, there has to be a clutch. When you press it, the car is free from all the gears. Not just mahatmas are in manual. Is this premie Mahatma ? No. But he is in manual. I am the clutch freeing him from the gears or putting him in action. To be in clutch, leave all, and come here. If you are still in automatic, clutch and brake are combined. In automatic, only the Agya is the accelerator. To be in manual or automatic is not up to you. It is your part to play. I am the gear box. In first surrender, there are four gears. In second surrender, there are only two gears. That depends on me what gear I want you to work. Everything depends on me. Not even a leaf moves a millimetre without my wish. (Guru Maharaj Ji, March 13, 1971) 'Do you need me? I am with you. You can't see me, though I'm the light that allows you too see me. You can't hear me though I talk through your voice. You can't feel me, though I'm the power that works in your hands. I'm working within you though you ignore my paths. I'm working though you don't recognize my work. I'm not a strange vision. I'm not a mystery - only in absolute silence beyond the personality that you seem to be; and then only like a feeling and like faith. Still I'm with you, still I hear you, still I can answer you. When you need me, I'm with you and I help you. In the moments in which you think you only find yourself, I'm with you. Even in your fears. Even in your pain, even when you meditate and when you don't meditate. I'm within you and you're within me. Only in your mind are the problems of 'mine' and 'yours', but still only with your mind you can know and perceive me. Empty your heart of ignorant fears because apart from your personality, in between, I will be with you. By yourself, you cannot do anything, but I can do everything. Though you cannot see the good - The good is there. Because I am there, because I have to be, because I am everything. Only in me the world has meaning. Only when you are in me, the world will take it's true shape. Only because I am the law, in which rests the movement of the stars and the growth of each living cell. I am the love that is the fulfillment of the law; I am safety; I am your peace; I am everything. Though you fail finding me, I never fail finding you. Though your faith in me is insecure, my faith in you never vanishes. Though you give your faith and love senselessly to others, My love is only for you, because I know you, because I love you.' (Guru Maharaji Ji, Speaking to IDP Group - February, 1982) Look it's beyone liberation. It's beyond all those things. Beyond all concepts. In this lifetime, we have the opportunity to realize, to be with GURU MAHARAJ JI. Be it not GURU MAHARAJ JI - You know maybe they didn't call him GURU MAHARAJ JI - Maybe they called him Lord, anything to be with that power. To be with that thing. To be not infinite. And yet to be with the infinite. To be here as individuals. And yet to be able to be next to the person who is everything, GURU MAHARAJ JI. The Lord all powerful..... (Malibu Ca, June 11, 1978) It's been said that Guru Maharaj Ji comes, or God comes into the world, when there is a decline in religion. God comes, Guru Maharaj Ji comes, and helps the world. (Denver, Colorado; October 12, 1974.) Read the excerpt published in 'The Living Master'. Answers from Guru Maharaj Ji, 15 Year Old Perfect Master. Who is Guru Maharaj Ji? I have not come to establish a new religion or sect, but I have come to give you Knowledge of Truth. If you come to me with a guileless heart you will surely receive this most ancient spiritual Knowledge, which, if practised upon, will give us perfect peace of mind. Jesus gave us this Knowledge, Krishna gave us this Knowledge, but now we must look again for a new Master to show us the light. The sun comes and goes away but we don't look for the light of day which has just gone. We look for the new rising sun. The sun is there, but it rises in a new beautiful way, and we look for that. In the same way, God is the same, but now we look for him to come, in a new way, to give this Knowledge. What is a Perfect Master? When we say 'Perfect Master', this is what we mean. A man who teaches you math, you call him a math master. A man who teaches you science, you call him a science master. A man who teaches you perfectness, you call him a Perfect Master. (Divine Times, February 15, 1973) The following is an extract from an question and answer session given by Guru Maharaj Ji in Portland, Oregon, June 29, 1972. Printed in 'Elan Vital' magazine Volume II Issue 2, Summer 1978: Question: Guru Maharaj Ji, what does it feel like to be Lord of the universe? M: What should I tell you about it? Question: Just what it's like. M: What it's like? Nothing. Because you are not in yourself; somewhere else; one with someone else. Question: How is it to be like a puppet? M: You don't know.... Do you? When you become Lord of the Universe, you become a puppet, really! Nothing else; not 'you'. Not 'I', not 'you' no egos, no pride, nothing else. One with humbleness; servant. Very, very beautiful. Always in divine bliss. Creating your own environment - wherever you go, doesn't matter. Like my friends used to play and I used to sit right in the corner of my ground and meditate (laughter). She wants to change places with me! I wish I could change places with everyone, and give one hour of experience to everyone! But it's not possible.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 00:41:37 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Susan Subject: Funny, that's not my experience Message:

Question: How is it to be like a puppet? M: You don't know.... Do you? When you become Lord of the Universe, you become a puppet, really! Nothing else; not 'you'. Not 'I', not 'you' no egos, no pride, nothing else. One with humbleness; servant. Very, very beautiful. Always in divine bliss. Creating your own environment - wherever you go, doesn't matter. Like my friends used to play and I used to sit right in the corner of my ground and meditate (laughter). My experience was a little different. When I became Lord of the Universe, I first felt like a small, pouched animal. Well, a marsupial, frankly. Why not just say so? I felt like a marsupial. Sure, later, after a year or two, I became a puppet but not right away. What's this guy smoking anyway?

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Date: Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 15:31:17 (GMT) From: Way Email: None To: Jim Subject: It was different for me, too Message:

When I became Lord of the Universe, I didn't become a puppet or a marsupial, either one. I just looked at myself in the mirror one day and noticed how perfect I looked. I suddenly realized that people should kiss my feet and do whatever I told them to do. I had another realization, about money, and how it should flow through my fingers at great speed. Simultaneousy I came to understand how nothing is real without me. Of course I wasn't under any illusion about how difficult it would be to get other people to understand all this, and that the liberal press would most likely be a problem. So I have to admit I've been a bit hesitant about starting my work in this world.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 01:12:28 (GMT) From: Susan Email: None To: Jim Subject: How about this one? Message:

- Maharaji speaking to the community coordinators about their duty to him (November 11, 1975 in Orlando, Florida): 'There is nothing much to say except that you have a duty to perform by Guru Maharaj Ji's agya. You have an agya to fulfill before you that there is no escape from - unless you want to escape the truth, the realism of this life, that devotion.' 'If you have any questions about your duty, about your service, that pertain to me, ask me. If you don't, that automatically means that you are going to go out and hold the responsibility of the duty that has been assigned to you. Right? I mean, do I make myself clear? Yes?' [Someone asks Maharaji a question: ' Some of us have received this service by default. Somebody might have left, or no one else would take it.'] 'It doesn't matter. Do you understand yourself as a premie who has realized this Knowledge or not? You are a premie. Right? When you received this Knowledge, you dedicated your life to me. Right? If you are so fake and phony as to refuse your duty, as to regret your duty, then I don't think you are even a premie. And if you are a premie and have dedicated your life to Guru Maharaj Ji and you want to do service to Guru Maharaj Ji, it doesn't matter what service Guru Maharaj Ji assigns to you. '

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Date: Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 01:15:36 (GMT) From: Susan Email: None To: Susan Subject: Oh Pia.....? Dare ya to post this one..... Message:

'And what do you want for Christmas?...Nobody thinks about why Jesus came into this world. Nobody thinks of that: what's really true of Knowledge, why Jesus came as Guru Maharaj Ji for those devotees, revealed Knowledge to them, gave them that experience. Nobody remembers that. Because Christ came. His purpose, was for sat chit and anand. What he came in this world for, what he revealed in this world, was this Knowledge, that love, that devotion...For a devotee it's always Merry Christmas because there is never a time in this world when Guru Maharaj Ji isn't here.' But I mean the devotee's prayer to Guru Maharaj Ji always is, 'Oh Guru Maharaj Ji, YOU ARE ALL-POWERFUL, you are all merciful. Save me. Give me that help that I need in my life.'

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Date: Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 07:54:17 (GMT) From: Connie Email: None To: Susan Subject: Where were those posters on Pia's site when Message:

MAHARAJI SAID THOSE THINGS posted above (and the many other satsangs/talks he gave and published)? Most posters over at Pia's site say they have had knowledge for more than twenty years, one for thirty years. They were around then, when he spoke like that, FOR AT LEAST A DECADE. On Pia's site, they infer a deep respect for m and value his high integrity, but how? when there is denial he spoke like that, even when there is evidence to show he did (as in Susan's posts above and on EPO). A common response to what he said in the past is 'You didn't take that seriously did you (you idiot)? I never did. I took it all with a grain of salt'. Did they not take what he said seriously, if not, this also does not suggest respect. Why would you follow someone you didn't take seriously? If we fast forward ten years what will be said about today's speak - 'oh boy, you didn't take it seriously when he told you to enjoy life and just breathe, did you?'

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Date: Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 13:07:22 (GMT) From: Nigel Email: None To: Connie Subject: Good post,, Connie - sums it up perfectly (nt) Message:

nt

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Date: Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 08:59:51 (GMT) From: PatC Email: None To: Connie Subject: oh but Connie, it's called evolution Message:

The PWKs have all been waiting patiently for Rev Moonbeam to catch up with THEM, and their wisdom and understanding. They knew all along that he was just being Hinduically hyperbolical and they understood the real heartfelt meaning behind the words. The words are not important anyway. He's just so beautiful and life is sooo precious. I can see it now. Rawat retires and says gurujism is nonsense and to do it on your own and the thoroughly modern PWKs will all say: ''I told you so! He never really meant it when he said he was greater than god or that you could not be saved without the help of the Master. He was just evolving!''

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Date: Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 13:33:06 (GMT) From: Connie Email: None To: PatC Subject: Pat, LOL Message:

Hi Pat 'Hinduically hyperbolical...' sounds like a very serious affliction. Does it impair one's ability to run and that is why the PWKs have been waiting patiently for him to catch up? Does it affect the legs or the feet? Thanks for your insight and the laugh, all the best.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 21:06:08 (GMT) From: PatC Email: None To: Connie Subject: It's dem Lotus Feet, Connie Message:

They don't touch the earth so he can't get any traction - just floats and the PWKs have to pull him along by his lotus legs. The whole thing's a leg-pull anyway.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 02:57:58 (GMT) From: Deborah Email: None To: Susan Subject: Good one - The snail has left a trail, No? ...nt Message:

zzz

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 23:56:25 (GMT) From: Joe Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Musings of Dr. Ed Message:

Edd Hanzelik, a physician from California, has come to the defense of those awful attacks on his master over on the 'It Ain't So,' website. Dr. Ed says: I have never met anyone in my life who has encouraged me to think for myself and be as fully independent as Maharaji has. Did this include the times Maharaji said that your 'mind' was to be ignored, and when he commanded you to never leave room for doubt in your mind? Did that really encourage Dr. Ed to think for himself? How about when he said that if you ever stopped practicing knowledge that you would smash into a thousand pieces? Did that encourage independence and free thinking? Dr. Ed also said: He has fought every vestige of cultish attitude that has a tendency to creep into a work such as his. What does Dr. Ed consider a 'cultish attitude?' A couple of months ago, when Maharaji had thousands of his followers line up and kiss his feet in Australia, did that have anything to do with a 'cultish attitude?' It's quite a vestage if you ask me. I can say that Maharaji is a kind, generous, wise person, with an extraordinary capacity to enhance the lives of those who sincerely want to learn about what he is offering. How well does Dr. Ed actually know Maharaji? Is he one of his friends? Does he go over to 'the residence' for dinner and such? How does he know that Maharaji is 'kind, generous and wise?' Does he have any examples of philanthropic work Maharaji has done for the benefit of mankind? Has Maharaji ever given Dr. Ed money? Just wondered.

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Date: Fri, Jun 08, 2001 at 06:57:38 (GMT) From: The Horsey's Mouth Email: None To: Joe Subject: Typo, was actually from Mr. Ed (nt) Message:

shnaaaaayfle

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Date: Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 19:39:21 (GMT) From: Been There Email: None To: Joe Subject: Ed and M go back a long way Message:

How does Ed know M as a friend? All of the above Joe. He goes to dinner at the residence. He's one of M's physicians. He was pivotal when Marolyn had her aneurism. They're friends. A long time ago a black premie in South Africa (when South Africa was still under apartheid) told M. he wanted at least one of his sons to experience life in a non-racist environment and asked if M. could help. M. talked to Dr. Ed and his wife about it and they agreed to host one of the man's sons, Tabo. Tabo lived with the Hanzeliks for a year or more. I think Tabo was close to Hansi's age, and also close in age to the Hanzelik's daughter. Tabo was regularly at the residence, playing with the Rawat kids. Ed is a wonderful, wonderful man: kind, loving, balanced, lives with integrity, and has one of the purest hearts I've ever seen. He has had his share of personal challenges and grief, and met them gracefully. He was married with a child, so didn't live in the ashram. That fact, and his unique relationship with the Rawats, may contribute to his not having suffered the abuses (and joys) that ashram premies experienced. He probably didn't ever hear the fire-and-brimstone satsangs that the ashram premies and community coordinators were subjected to, and was not on the receiving end of punitive directives from mahatmas/initiators. He may have been protected from all that. Consequently, he has a different view and experience than the 'common premie' and what he states on Pia's site probably IS his real experience. He has a different vantage point. He has a deep, abiding love for M.

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Date: Fri, Jun 08, 2001 at 15:40:44 (GMT) From: Disculta Email: None To: Been There Subject: I knew Dr. Ed too Message:

And I know that he did hear at least one of the rantings, because I was sitting next to him at the infamous Tucson Conference for ashram premies and Ed and his wife and me and my husband and a few other fortunates/unfortunates. It must have been in the late 70s. MJ took the initiators aside and blasted them with such intense verbal abuse and shaming that we all felt it when they returned and gave satsang, even second-hand. Somehow this experience traumatized me to the point of near-insanity, but didn't even shake his devotion. It takes all sorts.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 23:04:22 (GMT) From: Joe Email: None To: Been There Subject: So very bizarre Message:

99.9% of Maharaji's followers do not know him personally, and never spent any personal time with him, nor are they ever likely to. Hence, all they had was what Maharaji told them to do, which included total dedication and surrender, threats, schizophrenic views of one's own mind, rejection of family and friends, denigration of education and career, and general withdrawal from the world. Most premies never had the chance to balance that with a personal relationship with their Master, which seems to have tilted the balance for Dr. Edd in the other direction. The problem with Dr. Edd is the same as the problem with Erica Andersen. Dr. Edd needs a social conscience, something that allows him to see beyond his own, personal, apparently positive, personal relationship with Prem Pal Singh Rawat. Dr. Edd, what about everyone else?

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Date: Fri, Jun 08, 2001 at 07:28:54 (GMT) From: PatC Email: None To: Joe Subject: So very bizarre - PWKs 'need a social conscience' Message:

You've said it before but you can say it again and again as far as I am concerned. How can these supposedly intelligent people not look further than their own ''experience of the Master.'' Yuk! That's what I like about this forum so much. Hearing good stuff that I had not thought of said in ways I would not have used.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 21:04:40 (GMT) From: Way Email: None To: Been There Subject: To Been There, and to Dr. Edd Message:

Been There, You seem to know Dr. Edd as an extremely honorable person whom you respect a great deal. If he is all that you say he is, then I only have one complaint. I will address my complaint directly to Dr. Edd in case he is reading here for any response from the exes to his message on IAS. - Dear Dr. Edd, I do not know you, but have heard very good things about you, mostly that you are a man of sincerity and integrity. I do not doubt your love of Maharaji and/or Knowledge. Nor do I assume any responsibility to dissuade you from your own experience. But I want to say that, as a long-time premie and now an ex-premie, I found your message on the new website AIS to be somewhat deceptive. I think it gives a misleading impression. You seek to assure your readers that Maharaji is most certainly not the head of a cult. And you tell them that Knowledge, which Maharaji gives, has brought about great joy and fulfillment for you. You say that the gift is given freely and if practiced as prescribed, it works wonderfully. But I am very sure that you are quite aware that Maharaji gives Knowledge with the instruction that the receiver must commit himself as a life-long student of Maharaji as the Master, that without the Master, the Knowledge 'has absolutely no meaning,' to quote Mr. Rawat directly. You left that part out. Didn't you. Life-long commitment to Maharaji as the giver and source of our inner experience is what exes are objecting to. This sort of commitment and this sort of giving credit to the Master is exactly what cults are all about. Pure and simple. Shame on you. Please do have your own experience and be happy about it, but please, please do not purposefully misinstruct other people. Tell the truth, Sir, simply tell the truth, without embellishments and careful omissions that give the wrong impression. In your message there was not one ounce, not one tiny iota, of gratitute toward the true source of your heart's experience. You do not give any praise, or any credit, to the real giver of breath. All of your gratitude goes toward Maharaji, above everything, everything else. What about your own soul, what about your own innate love, the love inside that you were born with, before Mr. Rawat was born? I can tell you, Dr. Ed, that ex-premies do not have any desire at all to distort the truth, or to mislead people about Maharaji and Knowledge, to spread false rumors. Contrary to Pia's claims, we do not lie. We simply tell it as we see it. The difference between us and you is that you carefully measure out your words to correspond with a misleading public image of Rawat and you fail to tell the whole story. Because you know that when the average person knows the whole story, they will see that Maharaji and Knowledge is a cult, following the well-known definition and understanding about what constitutes a cult. I feel that you would do better to give credit where credit is most certainly due, to that mysterious power which brings forth life as we know it, and as we partake of it. I should think that at least it deserves a mention. Perhaps forming an allegiance to a flesh and blood guru figure is easier and more concrete, but that is, in my opinion, a very grave mistake. So, I am sure that you will not agree with my opinions about Mr. Rawat. I do not expect you to. But let us agree about the need to speak the truth, the whole truth, as we perceive it. Don't give people the impression that Knowledge is just a good feeling with no strings attached. Because that impression is a false one, it is not an honest opinion, it is a lie.

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Date: Fri, Jun 08, 2001 at 07:02:10 (GMT) From: Been There Email: None To: Way Subject: To Way re Strings Message:

Way, I understand your concern. To get the most out of anything takes a commitment. If you practice Knowledge and are a student of M., then you are committed to practicing Knowledge regularly and staying in touch with M. The promises people make are to 'give Knowledge a fair chance' and to 'stay in touch.' AND, M. leaves the door open. If, after giving Knowledge a fair chance you don't like it, or don't want to practice, or don't want to stay in touch, then don't. It's your choice. The heaviness of the old days have been long gone in a real way. That stuff is just not there any more. So it seems it is you who actually misrepresent the commitment, not Ed by omission.

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Date: Fri, Jun 08, 2001 at 15:07:24 (GMT) From: Way Email: None To: Been There Subject: To Been There re Strings Message:

See my response to your post above in a new thread, called 'Maharaji's real message.'

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Date: Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 07:50:55 (GMT) From: Danny Email: None To: Joe Subject: Musings of Dr. Ed Message:

Hi to various friends over here, Hope everyone's having fun and adventures, amidst their mischief. Dr. Edd is Maharaji's personal physician and, as such, knows him as well and as intimately as any Michael ever could dream, even on a rare day of relatively balanced reporting. He knows Maharaji, or Mr. Rawat, (whatever floats your goat) as up close and personal as can be conceived. For this reason alone, any thinking person would treat his take on all this with a tiny bit of curiosity, openness or (dare we leap for it) respect. Unless you'd just like to dump relentlessly on anyone, indiscrimininately. Without any logical reason. For a bizarre form of self-aggrandizement. To no greater cause. Other than reverse wish-fulfillment. Otherwise, listen to what others have to say for a second. Edd's a very good man. Namasté to all my pals. and best to all of you, Skøal, Danny

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Date: Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 16:33:48 (GMT) From: Joe Email: None To: Danny Subject: Danny, you are so silly Message:

Gee, Danny, thanks for the testimonial on Dr. Ed. Unfortunately, you do the thing you usually do, and ignore the details. So does Dr. Ed, but then with Maharaji a client, perhaps there is a bit of a conflict of interest there. But if you bother to pay attention, Danny, I don't think anyone has questioned that Dr. Ed believes what he says, it's just a little difficult to accept his belief that Maharaji has gotten rid of 'cultish behavior' when he is, to this day, having thousands kiss his feet, or that Maharaji has always encouraged independent thought when he for many years, and I think currently, denigrates and demonizes the human mind. I would like to hear Dr. Ed's thoughts on that, yours as well, but if history is any indication, we won't get them. By the way, Danny, were you in a cult when you danced around on the tarmac of the Houston airport talking about the Lord of the Universe, immortalized forever in the Lord of the Universe Video. By the way, Danny, I'm sure both you and Dr. Ed are nice people, but that really is beside the point.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 17:08:43 (GMT) From: Danny Email: None To: Joe Subject: Falsely accused, Hercule! Message:

I've never danced on a tarmac in my life, monsieur, nor have I been filmed in the act of tarmac dancing. I can turn my cheek to almost any insult but you, dear Sir, have crossed the threshold of low blowdom! Have you no shame? I intend to institute swift and severe legal action for this unspeakable libel. Marianne!?!!

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Date: Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 17:19:11 (GMT) From: Susan Email: None To: Danny Subject: Hi Danny how are you? Message:

Are you going to post on Pia's site? How has life been? You have my vote for the FUNNIEST premie who ever posted here. I thought your satire on what each of the forum regulars would say was deserving of a best of forum and proof that at least one PWK ( you ) had a genuinely intact sense of humor. Not that I always agree with you obviously. Do you think Dr. Ed did Mr. Rawat's prostrate screen? Sort of giving the finder to one's Lord. Very awkward moment huh?

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Date: Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 19:45:04 (GMT) From: Susan Email: None To: Susan Subject: oops meant Prostate (gland) not Prostrate(darshan) Message:

silly me.... maybe he prostrated himself before the prostate exam? New meaning to the idea of a 'darhan story' The charnamit would be familiar though, premies have been eating a lot of shit from the guru for a long time Bhole Shri Satguru Dev Maharaj Ki Jai!!!!

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Date: Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 21:50:42 (GMT) From: Nigel Email: None To: Susan Subject: And 'finger' not 'finder'? (v. Freudian! ;) nt. Message:

nt

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Date: Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 17:13:19 (GMT) From: Joe Email: None To: Danny Subject: So, you are a different Danny? Message:

Are you not the 'Los Angeles successful stockbroker' who, on enjoyinglife.org says Maharaji is more important that knowledge? You are not Danny Munter? If not, my mistake, but Danny IS a pretty good dancer in the film, so you shouldn't be insulted. I recommend the film highly. I think he's also the one mentioned (same scene) in the Rolling Stone article, now online.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 19:31:05 (GMT) From: Danny Email: None To: Joe Subject: So, you are a different Danny? Message:

Sir, you tread on dangerous ground! I have neither tarmac danced NOR brokered stock. I know who Danny Munter is and you, Sir (pointing selfwards) are no Danny Munter! Successful, yes. Moustachioed, no. Tarmac dancer, NEVER!!! Clarified? Hi Susan, thanks and good to hear from you. Danny (not a Munter since 1971)

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Date: Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 19:49:41 (GMT) From: Susan Email: None To: Danny Subject: Hmmmm..not a Munter since '71 Message:

Danny you are a clever dude. Rawat is lucky to still have you.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 19:35:34 (GMT) From: Joe Email: None To: Danny Subject: Danny still has a mustache? Oh, no. Message:

He must be stuck in the 70s, or else maybe he's gay? ::))

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Date: Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 17:21:00 (GMT) From: Susan Email: None To: Joe Subject: Do you deny being Danny Munter? Message:

Can you clarify that?

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Date: Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 14:17:54 (GMT) From: Nigel Email: None To: Danny Subject: Presumably a well-paid physician? Message:

Well at least your identifying Dr Edd's role in life stopped us mistaking him for a talking horse. For that I guess we should be grateful, Danny. But Joe was commenting on the absurdity and internal contradictions of what he posted on Pia's site. And no, working close-up in any personal paid capacity is NOT going to guarantee the premie will see either the guru's true colours, nor the scale of his own self-delusion. Why do you imagine it took Michael Dettmers so long to examine both M and the cult honestly? How about Anth - taught M's own kids and had plenty of incidental darshan over the years before seeing bullshit for what it was. Mishler, too, would have expressed himself in similar terms to Dr Edd before finally jumping ship. I suspect having a professional qualification and privileged role in the Master's life may be more of a hindrance than an aid to clarity, since it allows a such premies to consider themselves among the most chosen of of the chosen few. Well-favoured elites within any organisation generally have the biggest problems with objectivity and self-scrutiny. As for independence? The paycheck would surely bring a measure of added dependence - aside from the points Joe and Jerry have raised about the impossibility of being an independent-minded devotee. ('Independent-minded devotee' has to be the ultimate oxymoron.)

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Date: Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 13:11:32 (GMT) From: Jerry Email: None To: Danny Subject: Musings of Dr. Ed Message:

Sorry, Danny, when Dr. Ed says Maharaji encourages him to be 'fully independent', he's just got his head up his ass. How can somebody who wants to be your master be an advocate for independence? Please explain that to me, because I don't see how it's done.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 00:40:44 (GMT) From: Marianne Email: None To: Joe Subject: He's in the net Message:

Put his name in a search engine and you'll find him. He's a licensed CA physician, according to the state medical board. Marianne

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Date: Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 07:04:43 (GMT) From: Mark Email: None To: Marianne Subject: Ed and John are my Doctors! Message:

They good doctors and nice people. They just happen to fully be in the original Savior belief system still re Maharaji. And they are entitled to their opinion.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 17:26:13 (GMT) From: Susan Email: None To: Mark Subject: I went to a premie dentist on Miami Beach Message:

I do not recall his name. He took out my wisdom teeth. He did a good job too, I recall it was not painful and not traumatic, and I have had some BAD dental experiences. I agree that they could be fine docs who just happen to have cult beliefs. They could even be really nice people. I am a nurse and work with a few docs that have some bizarre beliefs....one of them brings his strange beliefs into patients care...that bothers me a lot, but most leave them at the door and are professional.

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Date: Fri, Jun 08, 2001 at 14:37:45 (GMT) From: jsk Email: None To: Susan Subject: I went to a premie dentist on Miami Beach Message:

I went to that dentist also, Marsha was working there. did a good job, long drive so I only went a few times.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 17:17:19 (GMT) From: Joe Email: None To: Mark Subject: Huh? Message:

Hey Mark, nobody said Ed wasn't entitled to his opinion, or that he isn't a nice person. The comments are all on the content of those opinions, which, if somebody is going to post his or her opinions on the internet, they assume the risk that someone else might disagree. Anything wrong with that?

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Date: Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 15:58:55 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Mark Subject: What's THAT mean, Mark? Message:

'Entitled to their opinion' ? What's that supposed to mean? We're arguing opinions here, Mark. If what you mean is that theirs is every bit as valuable as mine, for instance, I'd say that's nonsense. Mine's much more valuable because I'm not afraid to look at the facts. Their's is subject to much cult conditioning. Big difference. Mine's owrth something; theirs isn't.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 08:16:58 (GMT) From: PatC Email: None To: Mark Subject: Two of my premie friends who happen to be famous Message:

in the world in which they operate recently said to me: ''Are you sure K works without M, ie the Master?'' These friends of mine are smart and successful people and also nice and good as you say about Edd and John (whom I know and like too even if he is inscrutable.) The same can be said about Mr Rawat. He is smart and successful and good and nice. But he wants his cake and eat it too. (I am You KNow Who but I also am not.) Can't be done. He needs to come clean and tell us that he too has been under the impression that his guru saved him when he obviously did not and that guruism is baloney. I'm looking forward to his first post on FV. As well as John's and Edd's.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 01:39:19 (GMT) From: Mercedes Email: None To: Marianne Subject: He's in the net Message:

Dr. Ed is m's personal doctor so yes he is a personal friend of his. I feel he's placed m before wife, children, etc and they have suffered the consequences of this. So yeah m might be kind, and he is also cunning and vicious. Yes probably m has given ed money and who knows what else they are tight. Mercedes

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Date: Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 05:39:28 (GMT) From: Marianne Email: None To: Mercedes Subject: Dr. Ed is associated with John Horton, MD Message:

Here's an insight. Under the title 'Travel Medicine, Inc.', John Horton and Ed Hanzelik are listed as partners on the net. Their practice is in Westlake Village, California. Very interesting, isn't it? Marianne

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Date: Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 16:00:25 (GMT) From: Way Email: None To: Marianne Subject: What a let-down Message:

I was hoping that 'It Ain't So' might be kinda fun, with the level of debate being raised a notch or two. But no, even Maharaji's personal physician can only come up with silly, transparent, well-worn inanities. I thought there might be some meat to the new postings, since they openly acknowledge the existence of exes, but it's just ELK all over again. There still is absolutely no real response to our concerns. I don't know what dictionary they are using, but mine says that a cult is: (1)devoted attachment to a person or principle, (2)a group of followers. So what is 'It Ain't So'? They are a group of followers who are devotedly attached to a person. Their website is the very essence of the definition of cult. Boring.

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 23:26:47 (GMT) From: Forum Admin Email: None To: Everyone Subject: We need your help guys Message:

No doubt you've all seen the flurry of spam we have had recently. The perpetrator is most likely using proxies, which does not mean we can't track him/her, just that it takes longer and takes the cooperation of the proxy server owner, as those servers DO have logs which can be checked. What we need though, is any advice and/or help, technical or legal, from those exes who are pros. in the business or know the legal recourse we can take against spammers. If there is action we can take, we WILL take it, but we need to know the right approach. So if you can help us rid the forum of this and future pests, please email the FAs, in complete confidence of course, or you can post a reply here. Thanks FA

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Date: Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 02:15:08 (GMT) From: Daneane Email: dg@temporality.org To: Forum Admin Subject: We need your help guys Message:

Why not just include people's ISPs in their posts? I've seen boards that do that. Doesn't reveal who they are, but keeps them from taking on various identities. Or include number of posts or something?

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Date: Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 02:19:09 (GMT) From: Daneane Email: None To: Daneane Subject: oops Message:

I meant IP address, not ISP.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 02:27:21 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: Daneane Subject: thing is Daneane Message:

The privacy software has gotten sophisticated and can give you a fake IP which can change at intervals and often based on what you pay, change it as often as you like. But since you had the sincerity to bring it up, you have pointed out the issue really. What would you do as FA? let's just say anyone can buy an IP but it's also still predictable to see if they are anonymizing. Shall we block all their asses? I await the downpour of the free speech rain as we post. ok what's up I thought your name had 2 n's. I'll be back gonna go watch U2 at halftime.

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 23:48:29 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: Forum Admin Subject: report them to their ISP and to others Message:

What else is there to do? CERT is the popular place to read about incidents. I have found a site I prefer but it's bookmarked at work, I want to say it's Computer Security Advisory Committee but when I looked there just now I didn't find the pages where the people get reported. Will look tomorrow and email you. I have had to do a lot of this type of thing recently and can talk to you off line if you like. Katie and Brian have my email.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 03:05:18 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: Selene Subject: report them to their ISP and to others Message:

Selen, if you do, please e-mail it to me too, I thoughtI had it. Mean time, FA see what you can find here. (and why is this screen behaving badly) http://www.cert.org/tech_tips/denial_of_service.html http://www.cert.org/faq/certcc_ISA.html http://www.cert.org/nav/index.html Also, this is a resource for all information on computer crimes and the internet: http://www.vaonline.org/internet.html The proccedure for reporting is to collect all you evidences, such as the posts (the ones that were deleted) in some sort of database, the times of login, the locations where the info came and the name of the ISP (which you can get by doing a whois [network solutions}). Once you get all this info, you need to get in touch with the ISP, yourself or through your lawyer.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 03:13:54 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: Salam Subject: what don't you have what you thought you had? Message:

Although I can relate to the concept in general am not sure what you mean. If it's my email you mean, I just emailed you. f*&k shit my ears hurt from 2 steep plane landings with a cold no wonder fat rip-off artists buy their own planes. ouch.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 03:26:27 (GMT) From: salam Email: None To: Selene Subject: the url you mentioned in you post Message:

that's what I don't have. My ears kill me when I take a plane. But Alaah is my Aid:)

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Date: Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 05:32:23 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: salam Subject: it's SANS Institute Message:

I'm tired and lazy and already posted the url on AG. Sorry we got confused tonite Salam. Fuck I am sure it's all my fault. I've been told I am at fault for most things. fuck you everyone. (isn't it great to not be part of anything wher that sign off would matter?)

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Date: Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 08:01:43 (GMT) From: salam Email: None To: Selene Subject: it's SANS Institute Message:

same to you.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 14:28:12 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: salam Subject: ok well I am sick and all and hey FA Message:

Glad you understood my weird joke and that you liked the site. Here is the SANS link reposted for the FA's. SANS Home Page and this one is good: Information Security Reading Room

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Date: Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 00:24:33 (GMT) From: FA Email: None To: Selene Subject: thanks Selene, will do nt Message:

nt

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 23:31:38 (GMT) From: PatC Email: None To: Forum Admin Subject: Well done, Sherlock! Message:

Can't offer any advice but once you've found out who they are can I send Thelma over to break the knee-caps and set their house on fire?

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 22:52:21 (GMT) From: Francesca Email: None To: Everyone Subject: EV is a CHURCH Message:

According to Guidestar --f

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 23:57:26 (GMT) From: PatC Email: None To: Francesca Subject: A CHURCH is defined as an entity having Message:

a Belief System and religious rituals both of which EV has (belief that You Know Who is the Master, all the other gurujism shite and Hindu BS and foot-kissing and arti) yet they claim that they are not a church or a religion. Again Rev Rawat wants to keep his cake and eat it too. He can't have it both ways.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 00:05:29 (GMT) From: Francesca Email: None To: PatC Subject: EV is LEGALLY a CHURCH Message:

No matter what they choose to mince around about, they got a church exemption from paying their taxes with the IRS, so a church they are. If they don't want to be a church, they can be a public charity that is not a church and report to the AG and file tax returns with the feds and the state. Yes, they want to have their sheep and bleat it too. And if EV is a Church and M is the SPEAKER or MASTER, I guess he's the head of the Church. I hope the premies know that any money they give to M, as opposed to EV, is NOT tax deductible. Baa baa baa. love, f

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Date: Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 01:40:03 (GMT) From: PatC Email: None To: Francesca Subject: Now they will have to publish their religious Message:

Beliefs AND rituals. I'm sure the foot-kissing will be omitted. They can prove to the IRS that they are a church by referring them to EPO where the Belief System, Maharajism creed of ''no concepts'' and ''trust in the Master'' is well documented. The definition of a cult of course is a small fringe church which is exactly what they are.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 01:28:08 (GMT) From: Cynthia Email: None To: Francesca Subject: YES! I knew it! Thank you... Message:

Hi Francesca, Great work! I knew that they were registered as a church! What gaul, what nerve? $0 assets, $0 profits??? Yeah, Cynthia

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 23:13:42 (GMT) From: suchabanana Email: None To: Francesca Subject: Elan Vital:assets= 0;income= 0;diverted to Seva(nt Message:

nt

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 22:57:13 (GMT) From: Dermot Email: None To: Francesca Subject: Holy name Batman ..it is !! (nt) Message:

zz

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 23:01:50 (GMT) From: Moldy Warp Email: None To: Dermot Subject: Bloody Hell ! (nt) Message:

x

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 21:17:20 (GMT) From: creativejani Email: None To: Everyone Subject: miragey's 'email' option disabled? Message:

I tried to email miragey on his site yesterday, and I was astonished to find that there seemed to be a problem there. It seems he's no longer accepting email, thankful or otherwise. Anyone else find that? I did send him a 'thankyou for this beautiful experience...' type email a couple of years ago, so it used to operate. Just wondered if anyone else had tried to express their heartfelt feelings (!) and found the same thing? Wonder why he might want to stop his premies contacting him in this way. Can't imagine...

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 20:55:08 (GMT) From: Dermot Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Check out Pia's site...complete re-vamp (nt) Message:

zz

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 23:53:15 (GMT) From: G Email: None To: Dermot Subject: the intros look similar Message:

The Flash intros for it-aint-so.org and elanvital.org look like they were done by the same person.

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 23:04:49 (GMT) From: SuchaBanana republica Email: None To: Dermot,feds + da Escobars Subject: Check out: Medillin,Colombia money connection (nt Message:

nt

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 23:02:55 (GMT) From: Francesca Email: None To: Dermot Subject: Snore -- all from supporters Message:

Duh, duh, duh. I feel sorry for Pia. She should be using her precious energy getting healed, not supporting a worthless and hopeless cause. It seems the Maha never does anything for himself. People give him money (of course, HE never asks for it, the EV folks do). Anyone who has been around for any length of time has been hit up many times. People sing arti to him People kiss his feet People listen to him in rapt awe and sob when he leaves the stage. He says never doubt the purity of the Master, never It's not a cult, no no no. How many of you sent letters. She printed none of them. More enjoyinglife-style testimonials that no one is going to believe. Not everyone has fuzz for brains. --f

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 23:30:01 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Francesca Subject: Yeah, that's why I wrote her THIS letter Message:

Pia, Thank you for removing those lies about me. Like I said, I don't really expect an apology. You follow the man who doesn't know the meaning of the word, right? Hey, don't worry about it. But, Pia, don't you realize how entirely counter-productive your site will be if you don't actually open it up to debate? It's one thing to avoid the issues, as Maharaji himself pretends to do. It's a little worse to post bald-faced lies like EV finally did on its FAQ page. But what you're doing -- dedicating a site to a one-sided argument -- Pia, that's nuts. Don't you realize that you're just inflaming the matter and, worse, sending all sorts of premies on a secret search to find out just what it is you're so exercised about? Thanks to you, every last person who logs into ELK, for instance, will see that there's a whole ex-premie internet presence somewhere out there, saying shit that you are so worried about you couldn't ignore, yet so afraid of you couldn't actually meet head on. I know that you think you're doing something good for Maharaji here but, really, Pia, nothing could be further from the truth. Yes, you're right, time IS precious, for you particularly. I'm sorry to hear about your health and am particularly sorry that you've chosen such a dismal ambition to pursue, defending he who neither deserves nor can really benefit from your efforts. Just look at the first batch of premies' comments you've put up. Do you think any of them would stand up to close scrutiny in a fair, open and informed exchange? Obviously not or else you'd invite us exes to join in the fun just so you could 'set us straight' in public. So, fine. That frightens you too much so you post these one-sided, silly comments, carefully screened to fit your cult mental mold. Don't you think we'll inevitably have just oodles of fun replying and correcting this nonsense outside your gate? And don't you think premies will get caught up in following the real debate, the one you're afraid to actually host? Really, think about it. Have you ever heard of an issue-focussed media organ, such as is yours, that advocates a position, solicits letters from the public yet only publishes those that safely adhere to your view? That's got 'cult' written all over it, Pia. You're fooling no one.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 01:52:06 (GMT) From: Mercedes Email: None To: Jim Subject: Thank you Jim N/T Message:

cult it is

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 23:01:16 (GMT) From: Susan Email: None To: Dermot Subject: Cults by Marc Galanter Message:

One of the premies quotes this author and book. Well, I HAVE this book too.... she is leaving out a few things. The biggest one that the author went to Hans Jayanti to study premies in Orlando in 1975..the one with the floating stage. And this guy uses DLM as prime example of a cult. I am sending JM scanned pages of the book. It is beyong bizarre that a premie would use this book as a reference for why it isn't a cult.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 17:36:58 (GMT) From: Nigel Email: None To: Susan Subject: Bizarre, but sort-of understandable.... Message:

The premie (I think it was Josie Winter) is possibly hoping that by showing that Galanter's (an EXPERT, no less) criteria do not apply to DLM, the argument will be won - and even the DLM-related content will thereafter be seen as non-applicable. But very funny, Susan. I wonder what, if anything, Pia will make of your correction. Hey - is Galanter still alive? I am sure he'd be quite tickled by the reference and back-handed compliment...

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Date: Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 15:13:39 (GMT) From: Good Job, Susan! Email: gerry To: Susan Subject: Everyone READ SUSAN'S POST It's Hilarious nt Message:

gerry wrote this

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 21:57:14 (GMT) From: Steve Quint Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com To: Everyone Subject: Is This The Best Maharaji's Supporters Can Do? Message:

If I were still a supporter of Maharaji, I'd be rather disappointed. ELK is a disaster and this site, aside from the design, is not impressive at all. It has no substance. Sad. Sad. Sad. Steve

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 21:53:23 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: Dermot Subject: New Pictures are Coming. Message:

There's a banner on Pia's site advertising, 'New Pictures comming', with an explanation, 'New pictures are expected to arrive soon'. I wonder what pictures they could be? Maybe it's some original artwork. Perhaps some artistic photography. Maybe reproductions of old masters. Er...maybe some of Pia's own artwork. I wonder what pictures she's talking about? And I wonder why she goes on about pictures, but doesn't say what the pictures are? This really is mysterious. Maybe someone can enlighten me here. Pia, you reading this. What are these pictures then? And why don't you say what they are? Anth, I wonder...wa wa wa wa wander off to to the fridge.

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 22:02:45 (GMT) From: Dermot Email: None To: AJW Subject: And this PEARL, Anth.... Message:

From Josie winter, UK '...Here I have to admit,that to me, Maharaji can certainly be charismatic and some say divine,,,,,' haahah ....of course SHE doesn't think he's divine.....just SOME say it !! Cheers Dermot

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 22:12:08 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: Dermot Subject: Remember those movies Message:

Remember those movies Paul McCartney and Michael Jackson wrote? It was obvious nobody had the balls to tell them they were crap, so they were made and put on the screen before the truth finally dawned. It's something to do with vanity publishing, being surrounded by people who completely agree with everything you say all the time. It creates an extremely unhealthy atmosphere. I get the same feeling from Pia's site. It's a sort of cyber-ingrowing-toenail. Anth the cyber-toasted-cheese-sandwich

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 21:19:18 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: Dermot Subject: It's getting better all the time. Message:

The first readers responses are up. It's brilliant. One person after another saying, 'No, definitely. I'm not in a cult. It's not a cult. Definitely not. No way. Really, I'm not in a cult.' Except for Fernando, who doesn't know what a cult is, but is 'very happy and joyful most of the time.' It's really a hoot. And then a load of testimonials saying, 'It's nothing to do with money. Nobody ever asked me for a cent. Money, what's that?' It's incredible that they can't see what they're doing. It's like a cop walking into a classroom with the teacher. Immediately a kid jumps up and says, 'It wasn't me that stole that money from your desk Miss. And I didn't throw the empty tin in the fish pond either. And I didn't spend the money I didn't steal on cigarettes at lunchtime either. Honest. It wasn't me.' Plus, students of Version Control will notice the 'Lord, what's that. I'm just a bloke.' version of the Captain gaining momentum here. Anth wondering how long it will last.

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 21:29:54 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: AJW Subject: Hernando, I love you. Message:

Check this out, from Hernando, who, 'doesn't know what a cult is but is very happy and joyful most of the time'. 'Is Maharaji in this for the money? I have been supporting Maharaji's job in different ways. In 1996 and 1997 I was the treasurer of the community in Medellin, Colombia. I used to receive the money that people wanted to donate freely and with that money I used to cover all the expenses of the community. So, I know for sure that no money goes to Maharaji's pockets. On the other hand I know that Maharaji does not charge any money either to speak about this Knowledge or to give this precious gift, because it never happened to me. ' Well you've convinced me Hernando. He pays for the private jet, speedboat and luxury cars with his part-time job right? Anth, hoping Hernando keeps posting over there.

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 21:54:09 (GMT) From: kev Email: None To: AJW Subject: Hernando, I love you??? Message:

Hi Anth, I've just been to Pia site and can't find any post what so ever. So where did you find Hernando? Or you just having a joke? Also in a post down below I see that Jim's says that they have changed their 'What the critics are saying' bit but to me it looks just the same as it did the other day. Can anyone please help me I'm feeling very confused. Kev.

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 21:58:16 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: kev Subject: Hernando, I love you??? Message:

Go to Pia's Page. Click on 'First Responses Posted', read more->, then scroll down to read Hernando's words of wisdom. No kev, it's not a joke, honest. Anth, swear on the holy wozzername?

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 22:14:15 (GMT) From: kev Email: None To: AJW Subject: Hernando, I love you??? Message:

Sorry Anth, I still can't find any posts. Just did what you said in your post and all I got was a page called current focus and the it said 'This section will contain responses from the readers.' but all there is on the page is a blank screen. No matter how much I scroll down. Still confused, Kev.

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 22:17:58 (GMT) From: Dermot Email: None To: kev Subject: Hernando, I love you???////Kev Message:

Use the link in Gerrys post beloow to go to the site ......on the home page you'll see 'First responses posted ' and click more. Weird .....sounds like you're goin to the old version

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 22:33:24 (GMT) From: Kev Email: None To: Dermot Subject: Dermot and Anth, still not working!!! Message:

tried both of your suggestions and still no joy. Too weird for my head at the moment. Think I'll go to bed now. Thanks for the help though. I'll try again tommorrow. Kev

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 22:55:11 (GMT) From: kev Email: None To: Kev Subject: Dermot and Anth, found them. Message:

I tried going through ELK link and found the up dated version. For some reason the first times I tried it would only load up some of new version. Very weird. Just like them. I really am going to bed now. Goodnight all, Love kev.

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 22:58:39 (GMT) From: Dermot Email: None To: kev Subject: g'night Kev (nt) Message:

zz

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 22:16:40 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: kev Subject: Try 'Refresh' kev. Message:

you might be looking at an old version. anth the computer genius.

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 21:18:21 (GMT) From: Deborah Email: None To: Dermot Subject: POSTINGS at Pia's Propaganda Page Message:

Dermot, I just got back from there. I think the BACK button doesn't get ya out of the site. Weird huh! Not a cult??? I think this whole thing is gonna backkfire cuz, ya know why? Premies will not be able to relate to other premie's experiences, they never have, it's all about the BigHead. Also, premies who still love the LessThanPerfect Master will acknowledge how extreme their perceptions are and say 'Hey Wait, I never gave it much thought, but that's just not true, he DID say or do THAT' This page is more likely intended for ASPIRANTS, not premies. No, not premies, they are walking JOURNALS. The BigHead is going to start over with fresh Meat...the idiots who never remember what he said or saw what he did or believe what has been rumored will stay, but that's a big marketing mistake for EV. Corporate Tip for EV: Never mix the old blood with the new.

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 22:06:29 (GMT) From: Dermot Email: None To: Deborah Subject: Deb...backbutton Message:

Yeah with the original site the back button brought me back here immediately . At first with this revamp version I thought the backbutton didn't work but if you press it ,say a million times :) then you eventually get back here. Tthey are just trying to make it hard for us haha. Cheers Dermot

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 21:11:27 (GMT) From: Kelly Email: None To: Dermot Subject: Can someone give me a link, Message:

I'm a bit out of touch, but I noticed that she has a translation of 'Combat' magazine which I would like to read. Michael Macdonald's input...tres interressant, oui? So, can someone give me a link or an address? Dermot? Kelly

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 22:11:32 (GMT) From: Dermot Email: None To: Kelly Subject: Sorry Kelly Message:

I logged off straight after posting my post....so didn't see your post.....anyway Gerry came to the rescue. Cheers Dermot

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 22:29:22 (GMT) From: Kelly Email: None To: gerry and Dermot Subject: Thanks for the link..but... Message:

Got it, read it, posted...at great length..and was rejected. A fairly innoccuous post, I might say. So, what the fuck's going on here? Has anyone had a post accepted?. What are we allowwed to talk about? I can't be doing with this shit. kelly

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 22:43:25 (GMT) From: Dermot Email: None To: Kelly Subject: Kelly .....you have to include Message:

the following: ' in a cult...who me? Money? Maharaji has had no money from ANYONE, EVER ....he must have won the lottery years ago ......He has so much charisma it's ALMOST divine ' Just do that and you should be ok Cheers Dermot

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 22:48:37 (GMT) From: Kelly Email: None To: Dermot Subject: Hey, I'm just trying to get through to 'it ain't s Message:

All my submissions disappear. I quite like invisibility...BUT Cheers Kelly

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 22:54:10 (GMT) From: Dermot Email: None To: Kelly Subject: Any techies? could they know if you've come from Message:

ex-premie.org to their site and then block your emailing to them ? Dermot the paranoid

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Date: Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 11:56:37 (GMT) From: JohnT Email: None To: Dermot Subject: Any techies? could they know if you've come from Message:

Well, I suppose there could be spy-ware on it-aint-so that is able to read the 'history' files maintained by your browser. Most people use IE on an MS platform so the code would need only to deal with that to be quite effective. Also, it is likely that such users would have no security to prevent this kind of prying. I would caution exes to be careful about visiting hostile sites. Here's a really frightening story.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 16:31:57 (GMT) From: Dermot Email: None To: JohnT Subject: Any techies? could they know if you've come from Message:

Thanks John I actually use Netscape not IE but what You say is interesting. However, that 'really frightening story' ....are you sure the writer wasn't subtley selling all the software mentioned with an interesting tale as a cover :) Jeeze, I'm cynical aint I ! Cheers Dermot

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Date: Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 22:15:59 (GMT) From: JohnT Email: None To: Dermot Subject: Any techies? could they know if you've come from Message:

Yeah, selling software cab give rise to some interesting questions. But no, Danielle's earning an honest living as a writer, Salon's a quality mag. Security does work better without selling. Commercial secrets hamper open sharing and critical peer review. Theories and algorithms suffer as a result. Security engineers talk about how security through obscurity is inevitably compromised by brute computing power. Using commercial security software on an MS platform is better than nothing, but the bad news is you can rely on it that some current or ex MS bod knows exactly how to get through it. The no secrets alternative is more secure.

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 21:19:56 (GMT) From: gerry Email: None To: Kelly Subject: here ya go Kelly Message:

Pia's Place

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 22:27:00 (GMT) From: Cynthia Email: None To: gerry Subject: Say this over and over..... Message:

while spinning in a circle with your fingers in your eyes and ears: ''I am not in a cult'' ''This is not a cult'' ''Maharaji never asks for money'' Geeze, they doth protest too much! Holi ''we're not in a cult'' day! LOLOL Quite an evolution, in so few days, that website... Ratwat sucks! Love, Cynthia

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 22:30:04 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: Cynthia Subject: It's going like a rocket. Message:

whizz and soon, the inevitable 'BANG'. Anth, who will inevitably go BANG himself one day.

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 22:55:04 (GMT) From: Moldy Warp Email: None To: AJW Subject: Spooky - I went to 'staff articles' and it blank! Message:

Completely! Then I had to press the back button repeatedly to get back to FV and over and over got this wierd pulsating WHAT DID MAHARAJI SAY Like a bad acid experience! MW having nasty flashbacks

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 22:56:26 (GMT) From: Moldy Warp Email: None To: Moldy Warp Subject: OOPs meant it WAS blank! Message:

x

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 19:09:01 (GMT) From: Michele Deradune Email: bananasplit@deradune.com To: Everyone Subject: 3 Favorite Quotes (both on and off topic) Message:

'I am an agitator, and an agitator is the center post in a washing machine that gets the dirt out.' -- Jim Hightower (Jim Hightower is 'America's favorite political subversive' and anti-corporate whistle-blower -- who I am proud to say is my neighbor and (new) friend (his books are available on amazon.com. You will possibly never hear his message on 99% of the TV or radio stations, because they are corporate-owned and he is their worst nightmare. He was the one who nominated Ralph Nader to the Green Party. Need I say more?) 'And you shall know the Truth; and the Truth shall make you free.' (John 8:32) Paraphrasing (because I can't get my hands on a large-print Bible right now): 'As you treat the little children, so you are treating Me.' -- Jesus the Christ (my Lord)

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 21:23:04 (GMT) From: creativejani Email: None To: Michele Deradune Subject: You still here? Thought you were never going to Message:

post again? And you didn't sign yourself Michele (not an ex). Have I missed something here in the last few days? Nice to have some slightly more interesting quotes than from Miragey, I see this as a definite move in the right direction.

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 20:54:09 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: Michele Deradune Subject: Michele, you remind me of a calendar. Message:

A smart quote for every day of the year. Anth the metal bowl full of holes.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 05:28:04 (GMT) From: PatC The Fat Fag Email: None To: AJW Subject: Anth, you remind me of a colander. Message:

Remember when the Captain said we should be like vacuum cleaners and not like sieves. Vacuums suck up all the dirt. Colanders let all the good stuff run out. Yep, go figure. I never did get the meaning of it.

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 20:48:45 (GMT) From: Mark Appleman Email: apple4256@datastreet.com To: Michele ( Mitchell) Subject: 3 Favorite Quotes (both on and off topic) Message:

Dear Michele, Just as a fellow human being, I feel like you are going thru a very difficult patch. My holy spirit or intuition, as you call it, picks it up loud and clear. Certainly an agitation that now seems to be stretching out over weeks, if not months or years. And calling out for help, AS you proclaim your freedom from all. Obviously,a lot of your current reality system is wrapped around the concept of a Personal Savior(s?). While your version of that belief is not strictly conforming to Church Lady standards at DLM,Self-Realization or Vatican offices, at the same time it is, I feel, the SOURCE of your agitation. I suggest to you that IT (that belief system, not Maharaji or 'cultic' Elan Vital/ DLM, or the blaggards at this Forum) is at the root of this problem/conflict you experience. The savior concept has upsides that are enormous and well documented. That's why 90% + of religious people have them. And every one comes wrapped in a belief system. For reasons we could all argue til the cows come home,the SAVIOR CONCEPT along with the Hindu view of life and Maharaji's sweet playful out of the box charisma, made sense to ALL OF US in the 70's. So as good soldiers of God we swallowed the system whole. All of us played different roles within that larger belief system,with varying degree of intensity, but he was our God, or main man or special friend, or whatever. HOWEVER THE BELIEF SYSTEM THAT WE ALL BOUGHT HAS COME UNDER INCREASING STRAIN OVER THE YEARS. Part of that was certainly brought about by some very questionable behavior by the central figure. Also large portions of the original group goals have not been met. THEN THERE ARE THE PROBLEMS WITH ANY 'HAPPENING' becoming ORGANIZED (or synchronized). Also, MOST IMPORTANTLY, WE have grown and evolved as individuals. AND IN MANY WAYS, ORGANICALLY, HAVE OUTGROWN THE BELIEF SYSTEM we all happily coexisted under. Even Maharaji. When we outgrow belief systems we have to Trust Ourselves and CHUCK THEM. This is my most important suggestion to you. So some have left and moved on, and are confronted with the at times horrifying and other times anger-filled task of finding a new operating or belief system, and socially reengineering lives, families, and relationships. Others that remain, must cut and paste or lightly disengage to keep coherent and functional under the continuing aegis of a Savior. At times I view the remaining participants in the Rawat Club like people playing that kid's game TWISTER. As the teacher (or the DLM people) come up with a new stance or historical 'do-over' ( like 'I never presented myself as a leader' ) those remaining must put their 'left Elbow on Green ', and frantically try to keep balance.And their stories straight. Why ? To get the emotional benefits of staying under the 'Shelter of the Lotus Feet.' And that is a very powerful, soothing, shelter to give up! Even if the shelter is looking not so great anymore from the outside; it is still a magnificent experience inside. From my recollections, I think we have met and you were an artist, & were a personal art instuctor for Mr Rawat and had quite a bit of personal interaction with Prem Pal.I may be wrong, but I think not. Your name at that time was Mitchell. Maybe pre the marriage you referred to. As you know some people can paint in the style of a MASTER of art. And if there is a forgery, 95% of the people wouldn't know the difference. And would get the benefit of art ownership, aesthetics,status, self worth, etc.(in fact my wife and I saw a Danny Devito comedy on that subject last nite). Many still enjoy Maharaji as leader/savior/best friend despite it all. Is that OK ? I think so.I have loads of friends and ex-friends that still nestle under the shade of the Maharaji savior belief System. HOWEVER, 90%+ of previous initiates have moved on. Among those are astute and passionate observers of Master Art as well, and are certain that things were not as advertised. Does the Forum Forgery squad do anyone harm by pointing out False Master Pieces? I think not. In fact, some consider it duty, or Service(as we used to call it). Especially for those who are cuttint the teeth of their spiritual adulthood. There is a point where an individual moves beyond master and becomes their own.(this is my belief system CURRENT ONE-all belief systems are subject to change !) And believes in themself with the same conviction and surety that they once believed in their Maharaji of choice! (Pat C would call it the return of the Mojo. Thelma of course would put it in terms Red Heels would enjoy . . .) And when they do, they are ushered into the true Kingdom of Heaven (if one wants to use that phrase), the one with no middleman (or women). you and source. no brokers. That is the goal that each has the innate sovereign right and opportunity to experience. It is the Knowledge of All Knowledges! And you,it turns out are YOUR ULTIMATE and only True Savior ! ( if you meet the real Jesus, I assure you he'll agree with that ) While it requires its own vibrational upkeep devotion, and awareness, when faced with love and compassion - like a single mother forced to raise their child alone - the compassionate universe provides support , tangible love, and bliss. And keeps providing. We become wards of the State. Of grace. And the new life has its own rewards, taking us to spiritual maturity, and a more expansive arena of experience and love. My wish for you is a comfort in your life and your beliefs about it. Clothe yourself in loose fitting belief systems. Be good to YOUR SELF (and your daughter) ! Accept no final substitutes. ps. my email is above. I'd be glad to talk by phone as well, if you like. Mark Appleman

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Date: Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 01:49:17 (GMT) From: PatC Email: None To: Mark Appleman Subject: What a nice, kind, sweet message, Mark Message:

Just like you are in real life. I regret having been too flippant with Michele as I have known, right from the start, (Christian Star) that she was sincere and passionate. I hope that she can find a way out of her dilemma. It is one that is faced more and more each day by my premie friends. It was a pleasure to meet you and Billie, especially since I recognized her from way back when.

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 22:42:44 (GMT) From: bill Email: None To: Mark Appleman Subject: read this one ^ sanford......nt Message:

sdffg

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 21:38:06 (GMT) From: Kelly Email: None To: Mark Appleman Subject: Very interesting post Mark. Message:

Several points hit me. Firstly, the Saviour complex/ belief system, which is at the centre of this cult's belief system. THIS IS the core of the whole thing. How and why premies finally let go of this...I find fascinating. I am very interested in hearing Michael Macdonald's story. Secondly..Is he any good as a visual artist? I remember watching a video which contained footage of him sketching a landscape. He pussyfooted around, making tentative and ineffectual marks and, in the end, produced a totally boring drawing. Fearful and feeble! Has anyone seen a good painting or drawing? Has anybody heard a good poem? what about his hypnotic music? Did he make it himself? In other words, has he ever done anything creative? Apart from squirting coloured water at thousands of brain-dead followers? Thus making pretty patterns? Kelly Karen Ringrose

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 21:21:12 (GMT) From: Monmot Email: None To: Mark Appleman Subject: 3 Favorite Quotes (both on and off topic) Message:

Hi Mark: A nicely put and compassionate post, particularly re the loose fitting belief systems. Following M was like wearing a mental girdle about ten sizes too small, or trying to mince around in baby shoes with adult-sized feet (sorry, I'm metaphor happy). I enjoyed talking with you the other night, and I still chuckle over the 'side vents opening up.' Take care Monmot

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 19:29:27 (GMT) From: Francesca Email: None To: Michele Deradune Subject: House of Lords Message:

Michelle: I like some of your quotes. But I really question why anyone wants or needs a 'Lord,' and what the hey that means. I think that people try to anthropromorphise the higher power (god is watching us, god loves me, etc.). Unfortunately, this sets in very finite terms something that is limitless. Thus we cheat ourselves, and religions and messiahs help us along this misguided path--although parts of their messages are helpful indeed. I also think people have a lot of magical thinking about this anthropromorphised god and his all-too-human 'messengers,' sometimes construed to be 'messengers of the Lord.' It's not too hard for someone to tell people to 'look inside,' and it's not too hard for someone to take that step and do it. The only savior is in you--the true nature of your mind (including what we call 'the heart') and all that can be perceived. But what you hear is for you and not everyone else. There are not messengers that are chosen to get messages and then beat the rest of the world over the head with them. Well, some people self-appoint, and others vote them in. I suppose there are even reluctant saviours, Jesus seeming, at times, to be one of them. Thus are religions, cults and other organizations that co-opt our own direct experience made. Think for yourself. To a large extent, I believe you do. Questions are good, going inside is good. Be easy on yourself. I'll try to be easy on you. love, f

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Date: Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 08:41:04 (GMT) From: PatC Email: None To: Francesca Subject: Prefer the House of Commons Message:

Rev Rawat's welcome to post on the forum.

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 20:05:56 (GMT) From: Tim G Email: None To: Francesca Subject: Great Post Francesca. nt Message:

Hola

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 20:19:43 (GMT) From: Cynthia Email: None To: Francesca Subject: Beautiful, Francesca! What a writer! n/t Message:

nt

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 19:21:42 (GMT) From: Monmot Email: None To: Michele Deradune Subject: One Of My Faves--And Very Apropos To Cult Think Message:

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance, when the need for illusion is deep.---Saul Bellow

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 20:40:10 (GMT) From: Nigel Email: None To: Monmot Subject: And my favourite...? Message:

What is required is not the will to believe but the desire to find out. (Bertrand Russell)

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 21:24:28 (GMT) From: Monmot Email: None To: Nigel Subject: And my favourite...? Message:

Nice one, Nigel. Bellow's and Russell's quotes are mirror images of each other.

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 19:14:49 (GMT) From: Moldy Warp Email: None To: Michele Deradune Subject: 3 Favorite Quotes (both on and off topic) Message:

1. My washing machine does not have an agitator 2. What about truths with a lower case 't'? 3. He may be your Lord but he ain't mine.

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 20:15:39 (GMT) From: Cynth Email: None To: Moldy Warp Subject: Here's some quotes.... Message:

I like to collect them: 'If you can't get rid of the skeleton in your closet, you'd best teach it to dance.' - George Bernard Shaw (1856-1950) 'There is more stupidity than hydrogen in the universe, and it has a longer shelf life.' - Frank Zappa 'His ignorance is encyclopedic' - Abba Eban (1915-) 'I can write better than anybody who can write faster, and I can write faster than anybody who can write better. ' - A. J. Liebling (1904-1963) And Jim Heller::)) 'Half this game is ninety percent mental. ' - Yogi Berra 'People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid. ' - Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855) 'Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. ' - Albert Einstein (1879-1955) 'A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on. ' - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965) 'I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. ' - Galileo Galilei 'Blessed is the man, who having nothing to say, abstains from giving wordy evidence of the fact.' - George Eliot (1819-1880) 'I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.' - Umberto Eco 'I would have made a good Pope. ' - Richard M. Nixon (1913-1994) A favorite of mine 'You got to be careful if you don't know where you're going, because you might not get there. ' - Yogi Berra 'I worship the quicksand he walks in.' - Art Buchwald Francesca, that was a wonderful post! And Michele, I happen to be a great fan of Jim Hightower! Say hey to him for me, I'm a Bernie Sanders constituent (a friend of Jim's) and tell 'em give 'em shit for Cynthia!

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 21:36:18 (GMT) From: Francesca Email: None To: Cynth Subject: Bravo -- I'll remember to get my skeleton to dance Message:

This is a great collection. I'm going to have to copy them when I get home. Thanks for your complementary comments about my post. When I quit using my intellect to be a wiseass, I can hope to do myself and others a little good. Possibly. Who knows? At least I'm nice then, and that's better than nothing. love,f

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 20:25:34 (GMT) From: Steve Quint Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com To: Cynth Subject: Great Post Message:

'People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid. ' - Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855) This is my favourite of the bunch. Thanks, Cynth, this is one of the best posts I've seen. Steve

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 21:08:35 (GMT) From: DavidM2 Email: None To: Michele Subject: Hightower Message:

Jim Hightower IS right on. He is an articulate and humorous, if somewhat cynical, columnist and advocate for progressive politics. I wonder what he thinks of the guru, and thus how his opinion of you would be affected if he were to find out you're an advocate for M? Have you been out front with your friend? Premies don't tell their friends about M, because they realize that 'the experience' is not just a pure inner experience and guidance from a pure and holy master. 'The experience' is a whole ball of wax - a collection of under-the-surface attitudes and behaviors (a lifestyle that you must adopt) that every premie secretly knows is cult-like and undesirable for all but a very very few.

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 16:07:25 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Check out the updated parallel universe Message:

http://www.manavdharam.org/maharaj_ji.html

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 19:57:57 (GMT) From: WMary Email: None To: all Subject: Had me going all along Message:

until I saw the moustache. If he were to take off about 2 inches in length and thin it out (alot), it would be our m.

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 20:22:11 (GMT) From: such Email: None To: WMary Subject: satpal ratwat hisself [formerly bubblegumji] (nt Message:

nt

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 17:55:46 (GMT) From: such Email: None To: Jim Subject: 'bequeathing his mission... to his eldest son' (nt Message:

nt

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 17:12:28 (GMT) From: Jerry Email: None To: Jim Subject: Check out the updated parallel universe Message:

By the age of two and half he was already sitting for long periods of meditation and he encouraged others to do likewise.... When he was three years old, his father arranged a large procession through the main streets of Delhi in his honor. Thousands of devotees and interested people participated. At one point, a gigantic traffic jam halted the procession. Little Satpal Ji himself stood up and directed the traffic so that the way was cleared. So, even at a tender age, his innate leadership and organizational abilities were evident. Don't you just love it when they tell these stories? It makes it all so much more believable, doesn't it? . His father passed away in 19th July 1966, bequeathing his mission and unfinished work to his eldest son. Is that right? I heard differently. In fact I heard differently, in so many words, from Satpal, himself. I could swear he was one of Maharaji's leading disciples once, just like daddy planned it. No? Wrong info, I guess. It's a good thing they're finally clearing it up (yes, I am being facetious). When the time came, young Maharaj Ji took command with his characteristic zeal and efficiency, dedicating himself to fulfilling his father's dreams. When would that time be, I wonder -- when Mom and he decided that Maharaji wasn't ALL THAT, after all? Well, better late than never, I guess.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 21:05:40 (GMT) From: exie Email: None To: all Subject: Check out the updated parallel universe Message:

Hey - your talking makes fun to me. I was around melennium 73 and listened to Satsang of Balbagwan Ji (hope it is rigth written) His Web site now amazes me. Our M-Ji, his beloved brother never was, never is and never will be. And I guess our M-Ji never had such a brother , never has such a brother and will never have such a brother. And the good old Bhole Ji - is he still around with his Big Band playing music for the Lord, - for the old one or the new one ? I´m all happy that the hole family is still in the same business, because Raja Ji sticks to the really right and richest Lord - ? Thanks so far,- I enjoy all your posting.

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 13:07:56 (GMT) From: Nigel Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: Everyone Subject: The genie's well and truly out of the bottle... Message:

I just read G's inactive post about enjoyinglife.org now having a link to Pia's site. The fools. Pia, in turn, has enough links of her own (eg. the Combat article translated into English) for casual premie surfers to easily discover the nature of the 'allegations' (facts) surrounding Guji. Then when curiosity gets the better of them, many will find there way here - not least to read Michael Dettmers' testimony. In the 3+ years since the ELK site went online the editorial team (should I say 'creatives' ?) have studiously avoided making ANY references to the existence of ex-premies, nor have they dropped the slightest hint that things might be less than rosy in the garden - even editing and rewriting contributors' 'Lives' entries to sustain that illusion. Not so any more. Pia's site and ELK's link to it is probably the most spectacular own goal EV have managed to date. Haven't they yet realised there is no such thing as good publicity? As M used to say: 'You can't fight fire with fire'...

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 15:37:39 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Nigel Subject: So true. Completely true. Message:

They're getting sloppy in their desparation, aren't they?

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 16:51:54 (GMT) From: Nigel Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: Jim Subject: And premies will ask: WHAT 'ain't so'???? Message:

I am actually amazed how explicit is Pia's appeal for premies to help her challenge the accusers: This is a call for people who know Maharaji and who practice Knowledge to join me in speaking out to set the record straight and show how the picture being painted by those who call themselves 'ex-premies' is both false and irresponsible. Ok, maybe 'explicit' was the wrong word - she doesn't explain anything, does she? But how can premies show a picture to be false and irresponsible unless they go and examine that picture for themselves? Pia is (unwittingly?) encouraging them to do just that. Like I said, a mind-bogglingly ill-judged initiative all round. Has M really given his approval, I wonder? There will be tears before bedtime, that's for sure.

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 17:13:57 (GMT) From: gerry Email: None To: Nigel Subject: This is a tragedy for Pia Message:

I can't help thinking she is being used in a most obscene manner. I can't bring myself to send her anything but my best wishes for her recovery and some ideas how she might yet recover her health. She needs to concentrate on getting well and loving her family and friends.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 14:25:07 (GMT) From: Sandy Email: None To: gerry Subject: I disagree, gerry, it could be helping her Message:

I can't help thinking she is being used in a most obscene manner. I can't bring myself to send her anything but my best wishes for her recovery and some ideas how she might yet recover her health. She needs to concentrate on getting well and loving her family and friends. -gerry *** Hi ger, One thing I notice here alot is folks saying what other folks should do or making value judgements on what other folks did. I don't think you should do that...hahahaha (that was a joke, son!) But seriously, ger, I think that when somebody feels a passion for something as Pia obviously does, it increases blood circulation and ups other life functions that I cannot describe, not being a specialist. And if she gets disillusioned at some point along the way or learns something she did not know before that widens her horizons, she will definitely be better for it. I cannot see a meeting where the EV's or Maharaji's staff called Pia in and said 'Pia, we need you to be our poster child'. No. I think it's from her heart, and then she probably got help to set it up. Sandy

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Date: Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 14:48:02 (GMT) From: Nigel Email: None To: Sandy Subject: I agree Sandy Message:

(but that bit about 'from her heart' - not an expression I would use having seen it so horribly abused by M and co. But if you mean 'she obviously has strong feelings about the issue', then fair enough). Yes, just her getting involved in the question of criticisms of M & K, is bound to stir up the mud at the bottom of her consciousness - even if she is merely shadow-boxing at present. But there is no way she can ignore the volume of articulate, non-hateful ex-premie emails she has received. Or at least she can't ignore them without eventually becoming aware that she is NOT treating the subject either openly or honestly. One way or another, her position is sure to budge - if only a few degrees from its present stance.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 17:59:53 (GMT) From: Sandy Email: None To: Nigel Subject: Why, Nigel, how kind of you to say so.... Message:

Ahhh, how refreshing, to find agreement with someone here over an issue without getting personal. One of the many courtyards in the Kingdom of Heaven.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 20:28:19 (GMT) From: Nigel Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: Sandy Subject: I disagree, Sandy... Message:

..about the coutyards in the kingdom of heaven :{)} But, you know me, I just tell it as I see it..

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 22:01:14 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: gerry Subject: I completely agree with you gerry. (nt) Message:

nt

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 17:50:09 (GMT) From: such Email: None To: gerry Subject: Pia: Premie In Angst (nt Message:

nt

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 16:09:12 (GMT) From: la-ex Email: None To: Jim Subject: isn't this the 'tar baby'?(right story or not?)?nt Message:

aa

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 12:39:41 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Who can say this woman's not in a cult? Who? Message:

Here's something Ivette Belfort Mattos of Sao Paolo, Brazil is feeling: Nottingham will be my privilege Nottingham will be my next step. The next step of this long climb. I will keep my focus on this journey. I will need to be as light as possible. Even as everything else continually changes, I will focus on this beauty moment inside. In Sherwood Forest my heart will rest. There I will listen to the voice of my heart. I will accept from it the undefined joy. With sincere happiness, I am flying to it. My heart wants to be busy evolving with clarity and pure satisfaction. I want to embrace it. At this time, I will not be alone. I know, I feel, that it will be my moment, my rare opportunity, my precious fortune: Nottingham will be my privilege What kind of wooden, religious jargon is this? I think she's swooning over some childhood memory of a Robin Hood comic book or something. Anyway, don't know where she gets the money but Ivette's on her way to sunny England. She thinks the trip will make a difference in her life. This woman is a religious fruitcake. Plain and simple. She's a prime, ripe sample of the fruit of Maharaji's tree. This is what you turn into if you're doing it right these days. Isn't that so? After all, ELK is pretty well the only cult-sanctioned website that allows premie's a voice, it screens everything like crazy and yet this is the stuff of its most prolific posters. The only real regulars are all like Ivette. They all seem like fanatical sisters in some bizarre catholic nunnery. This is it. This could have been you.

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 17:38:29 (GMT) From: such Email: None To: Jim Subject: Robin Hood, Robin Hood riding through the glen Message:

Is this person, like, that same wet ivette chick i heard about? or is she just infatuated in fantasyland and looking to be another lala that m. made merry in -- the knotting hamster? Not in ham will be my privilege 'n sure would for ex - my heart will rest Where's Friar Tuck these days?

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 17:35:42 (GMT) From: Cynthia Email: None To: Jim Subject: ''In Sherwood Forest my heart will rest???'' Message:

Hi Jim, The poetry is getting worse and worse. Sherwood Forest was the place where Robin Hood, et al, rested after stealing from the RICH to give to the POOR. And this poor premie's got it all fucked up. She's following a Blob who takes from the poor and gives to himself! Not even close...wonder how poor she'll be after giving up the cash for a trip to Nothingham. Blather, blaa, blaa, blaa Cynth

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 17:45:46 (GMT) From: such Email: None To: Cynthia Subject: Q: who steals from the poor and gives 2B rich?! Message:

These gushy premies have their illusions [er, literary allusions] all mixed up. Robin Hood: steals from rich, gives to poor m: reverse baseball cheat and deceit scandal: say it ain't so pia's EVI franchise site: say it ain't so Thith ith really funny - and getting thillier all the time. Peace and lentils,

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 15:29:10 (GMT) From: Gary Email: None To: Jim Subject: Who can say this woman's not in a cult? Who? Message:

My heart wants to be busy evolving with clarity and pure satisfaction While I know that the person who wrote this is sincere and it almost feels like stepping on a doll-house to make disparaging comments, this is a prime example of how current corporate jargon from the Captain can become the mangled concepts du jour for those trying to get synchronized.

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 14:15:26 (GMT) From: Bryn Email: None To: Jim Subject: She is enchanted by the word 'Nottingham'! Message:

Perhaps she should add Barnsley, Sheffiefld, and Rotherham to her infatuation. If only I had been encouraged to separate my intoxication with the words LA., Miami Beach, New Delhi, from my religious aspirations, I would have grown out of this 'glamour of travel' cult a lot sooner than I did. For those who don't know (and why should they), all the above mentioned places are tired old shagged out pit towns, twenty miles down the road from here. (no offence residents, just looking for an easy phrase!) love Bryn

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 19:33:55 (GMT) From: Bin Liner Email: None To: Bryn Subject: She is enchanted by the word 'Nottingham'! Message:

Yeah ..she'll have a problem finding Sherwood Forest all right , but in the post darshan bliss might well be tempted to wet her whistle in 'The Trip To Jerusalem ' self styled England's oldest pub , & a place where on a Sat. night she will find people who have so comprehensively got rid of their minds that they would be looked down on by the guys who used to put on woad. So much for merrie England . Pat Dorrity

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 21:01:05 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: Bin Liner Subject: Nottingham is named after Snot. Message:

Hi, I'm sure there's a cosmic connection here somewhere with the fourth technique. Anyhow, Nottingham is named after a family called 'Snott', and originally was called 'Snottingham'. There is supposed to be a direct descendant of the original family living just outside the town, in Ruddington. I had to mention this, what with my fascination with bodily fluids, and me coming from the town. Anth, really, I'm not kidding.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 15:52:27 (GMT) From: gerry Email: None To: AJW Subject: I believe it, Anth Message:

I just finished reading a book entitled The Hidden History of Snottingham. I believe it's available at Amazon

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 14:13:28 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: Jim Subject: Who can say this woman's not in a cult? Who? Message:

Hi Jim, With her heart 'flying towards Sherwood Forest' from Brazil, it looks like they're deperately trying to fill up quite a small venue. They've already encouraged people to bring children and pets, looks like they're casting the net wider. The Captain hates to see empty seats when he comes on stage to remind everyone how important it is to breath. Anth, who grew up in Nottingham and hasn't forgotten to breath yet.

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 15:05:27 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: AJW Subject: I heard they're actually inviting moonies too Message:

Anth, Any truth to that? Really, if you look at one of the EV sites (today I just checked out the new, exciting Slovanian one), they have that opening animation with the thunderous Indian music and orgasmic crowd shots. Look closely. Tell me those aren't moonies in there. They are, aren't they? Jim Who Never had His Master Pick a Bride for Him

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 21:04:54 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: Jim Subject: If it gets really bad... Message:

...they can ask everyone to bring a blow-up doll. Or better still, a blow-up moonie. The blow-up Anth sssssssss PS. Did you ever see the low budget French movie, 'La Dernier Battaille'? The opening scene was brilliant, and featured a blow-up doll. It's a great film. Only one sentence spoken throughout the whole movie.

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 13:58:46 (GMT) From: Moldy Warp Email: None To: Jim Subject: Who can say this woman's not in Sherwood Forest? Message:

I won't tell you in public wot my cultural theory supervisor thinks women's forests are!!! Not unrelated to 'bizarre catholic nunneries' - OTOH are there any other sort??? Christ - I could throttle the person who gave me 'A Child's Life of Jesus' at a tender age... oh he looked so handsome and kinda vulnerable... it was all down hill from there I'm afraid. Love the 'My heart wants to be busy evolving with clarity and pure satisfaction.' Sounds so much like it means something when it means fuck all!

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 11:08:36 (GMT) From: Larkin Email: larkin@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: Everyone Subject: All-purpose devotional song - 4 premies AND exes Message:

[Premies just ignore the stuff in brackets.] He basks (like a shark) in his glory We pay respect(, grovel and crawl) Sublimely (indifferent) he sits there Our heavenly Lord of (fuck) all He swears (like a trooper) he’ll lead us His the (self-proclaimed) right (or the gall) To call his sheep home (to the slaughter) Our heavenly lord of (fuck) all In a world of crap spiritual teachers He stands (, even there he ain’t) tall So we swallow our pride (and his bullshit) For our heavenly lord of (fuck) all (So) he cares not fortune or pleasure and (then why is he) having a ball (?) So punishing (of those in) his service Our heavenly lord of (fuck) all He claimed all our hearts (and our wallets) (Like zombies) we answered his call His (dis-)grace is all that we yearn for Our heavenly lord of (fuck) all His spirit ( - that's brandy - ) keeps flowing His ego is (anything but) small He will love his (blonde) premies forever Our heavenly lord of (fuck) all In his house (of cards) we are sheltered Until death (or eviction) should call As he forges (his past) and our futures Our heavenly lord of (fuck) all

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 19:22:04 (GMT) From: Deborah Email: None To: Larkin Subject: This is Very Very Funny, Larkin..Thanks .... nt Message:

zz

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 15:37:29 (GMT) From: Dermot Email: None To: Larkin Subject: Pornolised EX version or Message:

beat generation poem ?? ....Like a shark grovel and crawl indifferent fuck like a trooper or the gall to the slaughter fuck, even there(then?) he aint tall and his bullshit fuck So then why is he of those in fuck and our wallets like zombies dis-fuck That's brandy anything but blonde fuck of cards or eviction his past fuck { bholie shri satgurudev Maharaj Ki Jai !!!! ) copyright LARKIN 2001

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 15:39:10 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Dermot Subject: THAT'S SO BEAUTIFUL, DERMOT! (nt) Message:

ggggggg

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 11:55:00 (GMT) From: Michele Deradune Email: None To: Larkin Subject: Larkin's post above disses Maharaji (NT) Message:

NT

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 15:38:59 (GMT) From: Dermot Email: None To: Michele Deradune Subject: Thanjs for warning Michele..appreciated :) (nt) Message:

zz

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 13:59:02 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: Michele Deradune Subject: Yeah. Fuck him. (NT) Message:

metaphorically speaking of course Michele.

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 11:58:26 (GMT) From: Larkin Email: None To: Michele Deradune Subject: In your imagination. But 'if the cap fits..' Message:

Where does the song mention Maharaji?

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 19:24:39 (GMT) From: Deborah Email: None To: Larkin Subject: HA HA HA! Where does the poem mention Maharaji? nt Message:

hahahaha

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 11:57:52 (GMT) From: JHB Email: None To: Michele Deradune Subject: Shock - this entire forum disses Maharaji! (nt) Message:

Ohmigod!

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 11:37:03 (GMT) From: Steve Quint Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com To: Larkin Subject: You're An Insomniac's Dream Come True nt Message:

nt

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 08:02:07 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Everyone Subject: The Combat review now online !! (in French) Message:

L'Aliénation Sectaire Une enquête sur Elan Vital ..... Some service for the translators. The pictures and illustrations are not online on the Combat website. They'll be on EPO in a few days ... Combat (and me) still waiting for EV to sue ....

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 18:13:08 (GMT) From: Disculta Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Mon cher frere Message:

J'ai tout lu, et c'est vraiment fantastique! Je t'en felicite, et j'espere que les 'repercussions' ne soient pas trop difficiles pour toi. Ton courage merite grand accueil. Prends un massage en cyber-space de ma part! Ta soeur, Katie

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 20:59:10 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Disculta Subject: You know what's most funny? Message:

Is that everybody thinks I'm the origin of this! Far from it! Gilles Alfonsi and 2 other exes (who have nothing to do with EPO) are the origin of the review. Then they got in touch with me for advice, some help, and my interview. I've also helped proof-reading, that's all !!! Nobody believes me, they think I've manipulated the journalists and the communist party in France. What a laugh !!!

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 17:15:59 (GMT) From: suchabanana Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: translator link: http://world.altavista.com/ (nt Message:

nt

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 13:05:25 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Hey, this is better than the Pornolizer! Message:

If you go to Alta Vista's site (altavista.com), there's a link amongst the 'tools' for 'translate' (right next to the little fish that signifies the translation site Alta Vista uses called 'Babel Fish'). If you go there and type in the URL's to any of the actual pages with the Combat article, it'll translate. Like this: 2nd PART - INVESTIGATION - 3 Hazardous reconversion of the gourou Maharaji Sympathetic nerve network with the service of a professor of meditation or tentacular organization to the enrichment servicing of a despot, the old Mission of the Divine Light tries a hazardous reconversion. With the danger of the faith? Pascal Damoinet In 1973, in Divine Actualités, the newspaper of the ex-Mission of the Divine Light, become Vital Elan in 1983, one glorifiait ' the perfect Master ' ' to show Him our recognition without terminal for the infinite treasure that It gave us so liberally and for Its Grace which It does not cease spreading on us all His disciples '. The gourou was then nobody other but the alive incarnation (of the son) of God: ' Let us think that in a score of days, the whole world will celebrate the anniversary of Jesus Christ - the perfect Master of 2000 years ago - in a profusion of meats, alcohol and smoke and that on this occasion the greatest annual commercial deal must take place. Let us realize that the Perfect Master of our time is... alive there... that It will be 16 years old, and that we are His disciples. ' The financial stake was approached without complex: ' Mahatma Ji often says that to the Indies, people, that they are or not disciples - never come in front of Guru Maharaj Ji or one from Its Mahatmas the empty hands. We must always remember us that and especially, at the time of the anniversary of the Perfect Master. We should do the utmost to be able to offer to marvellous gifts (...) the disciples to him all are thus invited to constitute the kitty which must allow that '. Family schism In 1974, the mother of Maharaji, Subdued Ji, repudiates the marriage of her son with an American air-hostess, Marolyn Johnson, to which it gave the title of ' Durga Ji ' (name of an Indian goddess). The elder brother of Maharaji, Ball Bhagwan Ji, is charged by his mother with taking in hand the destiny of the Mission of the Divine Light. He becomes, after one period of implication in the Indian life political, ' Stapal Maharaj ', new gourou delivering Knowledge. At this period, Maharaji loses temporarily many disciples in India. Development The movement had the wind in poop in the Seventies, at the time of the Beatniks, of the voyages in India, the sexual release and the following days which sing. Maharaji gathered crowd, of meeting in festivals. At the time, the speech was hollow or funny. It made write to the Barber, July 18, 1978: ' Because the source which links them, say, it is this Indian chubby-checked fellow and almost beardless, large amateur of and jet sports cars, which a spiritual gossip writer recently described as ' half roll, Bouddha half '. Guru Maharaj Ji - lord of the Universe, king of Peace, revealing of the Light, divine incarnation, such are the titles that give him its excessively pious people - become perfect Master at the 8 years age, without to have ever read Bhagavad Gita, and by which preachings astonish by their flatness '. Reconversion of Maharaji and its apparatus **time-out** Maharaji, old main perfect, incarnation of God on ground, promise to found without delay délais the Peace universal and the Happiness for all, himself be change in professor of meditation, anxious de share the Knowledge. The time changed, requiring successive adaptations which disorientated most faithful without allowing the renewal of the masses of candidates and premies. Elan Vital does not have any more tempting appearances vieillotes but of a remote philosophy, nor of a mystic. Formerly, its gourou adorned the clothes festifs of believing India: it resembles from now on any framework of bank. Maharaji always has eloquence, a capacity not very common to speaking about all, nothing to say by convainquant you that its play touches your being. But it is a clown whose show already seems to be seen and heard thousand times. Remain however that Vital Elan still succeeds in joining together several hundreds of followers for its evenings vidéos. Each week, projections for candidates or premies join together a few tens of people, with the Campanile hotel of Puppet or the Bradford hotel close to the Madeleine for example. There are thus always some new recruits, pleasantly enca-drées by rescapés of the Seventies and Eighties. A circle a little further away from the central core will be always faithful, him also: some individuals whose no concerned association of the people would like but who are of long date of the benefactors and the financeurs of association. And yet, for Vital Dash, the Humans right became a reference. A charter even states that the association made of the respect for human dignity a fundamental value, and than its action is led in accordance with the principles of the Universal Declaration of the Humans right. Is this to entreat the bad fate which makes be questioned thus the booklet, upon reading of the movement: but what is this thus that that sect? Provincial ramifications of the sect continue to exist. And a European organization able to plan events, like the arrival of Maharaji on last 25 September in Paris, with the Palate of the Congresses, has a logistics and means significant. However, to fill the rooms, the coordinators of the movement rakes disciples of all Europe. The hope Although the organization plays low profile, its opponents, brought together in particular around the Internet site of the ex-premies, become impossible to circumvent. New receipts are installation: the retransmission by satellite of weekly emissions, subject to expensive acquisition of the essential hardware and of a subscription. There, the operation is malignant: it raises partially the problem of discretion, it still reinforces connect it freedom of the premy; it is based on technologies that each one, in our company, must from now on use. Therefore finds one in the recent meetings organized by Vital Elan, some young ewes, of higher social categories generally.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 07, 2001 at 07:23:45 (GMT) From: janet Email: None To: Jim Subject: thats awful, but hysterical. read mine-i translate Message:

translated this already into contemporary english after trying alta vista and running into this malaprop mishmash of literalisms. still, its worth a good guffaw. truth has a way of emerging, despite--doesnt it? seriously tho--does anyone know where my original translation is now? was it posted? was it saved and put on the pages with combat in french? if it wasnt, shouldnt it be?

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 15:19:26 (GMT) From: Steve Quint Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com To: Jim Subject: Speaking Of Pornolizer Message:

It looks like the FA deleted your pornolizer thread before it was archived. What a bummer - my greatest piece of artwork is lost forever. Steve

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 15:48:57 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Steve Quint Subject: He DIIIID?? Message:

That's so sad. I'm sorry to hear that. Makes me want to pornolize the world, hearing something like that. Here's a start (from ELK -- kind of): Carolina 'Mistress Shiva' Cacicedo: Raunching on fingerfucks of music From 'Big Cock' Miami, Florida After spewing the motherfucking Miami 'Bastard' Beach event of 11 and 12 May with Maharaji, I realize that I feel light, as if I were sex fighting on shafts of music.

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 15:13:06 (GMT) From: Dermot Email: None To: Jim Subject: Hey, this is better than the Pornolizer!..LOL (NT) Message:

Z

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 14:19:08 (GMT) From: Moldy Warp Email: None To: Jim Subject: Warning Don't read Jim's post if you are consuming Message:

liquids... you may not survive to the end. Moldy LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL splutter choke

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 10:41:00 (GMT) From: janet Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: my work is cut out for me. i'll get started. Message:

couldnt do anything till now. i'll see if i can do an article a day till it's all done. where do you want me to submit it?

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 16:23:06 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: janet Subject: email it to me, BUT Message:

jmkahn@club-internet.fr BUT PLEASE, have it checked first by someone else, if you have problems translating some parts. I'm quite busy these days, and can't send texts back and forth ..... This is a big job, and it will take time. Maybe someone else here could help you ?

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 15:17:26 (GMT) From: Francesca Email: None To: janet Subject: my work is cut out for me. i'll get started. Message:

Some of it is translated on Pia's site, but you'll probably have to see if you trust the translation (snicker). Love, f

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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 15:15:50 (GMT) From: Dermot Email: None To: janet Subject: Thanks Janet (nt) Message:

zz

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