Forum V: Archive
Compiled: Sun, Jun 10, 2001 at 14:09:05 (GMT)
From: Jun 03, 2001 To: Jun 08, 2001 Page: 4 Of: 5


Michele Deradune -:- Ted Patrick, Jesus Christ and Yogananda -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 11:51:26 (GMT)
__ nagual rain -:- Ted Patrick, Jesus Christ and Yogananda -:- Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 09:29:16 (GMT)
__ __ Scott T. -:- You don't really have to quote the whole loadacrap -:- Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 12:46:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ Salam -:- He could have said that he agrees in one line -:- Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 15:56:17 (GMT)
__ AhA -:- I got YOU now!! MASTERS ARE GOOD... -:- Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 03:01:39 (GMT)
__ Parsley -:- shushhhhhh -:- Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 02:27:13 (GMT)
__ Jerry -:- The Holy Spirit -:- Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 01:41:57 (GMT)
__ __ Jerry -:- Correction -:- Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 02:10:24 (GMT)
__ Sir David -:- Thanks for that Michele -:- Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 00:41:53 (GMT)
__ __ Bazza -:- A good suggestion -:- Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 02:29:17 (GMT)
__ __ Deborah -:- Sir David: Please Explain this Post -:- Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 02:17:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Sir David: Please Explain this Post -:- Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 02:34:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Scott T. -:- Sir David: Please Explain this Post -:- Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 12:57:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Deborah -:- Sir David: Try it AGAIN, -:- Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 03:30:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Deborah -:- Sir Dave--Did you accidently answer wrong POST -:- Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 02:45:42 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- What a ridiculous post, Dave! -:- Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 01:33:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ Sir Dave -:- That's your opinion and -:- Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 02:15:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- You're saying some PRETTY dumb things, Dave -:- Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 02:30:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- But you always say that -:- Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 02:43:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Scott T. -:- But you always say that -:- Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 13:30:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Yeah? Well I guess I'm right then -:- Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 02:52:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Deborah -:- You opined that Michele writes sooo beautifullll?? -:- Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 02:30:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Yep, that's right -:- Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 02:50:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Deborah -:- Yep, that's right--You still think like a premie -:- Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 03:38:37 (GMT)
__ Gary Epton -:- Hoo-ha, well that clears that up, helterskelter(nt -:- Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 00:26:06 (GMT)
__ Mickey the Pharisee -:- Ted Patrick, Jesus Christ and Yogananda -:- Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 00:11:04 (GMT)
__ __ Gary Epton -:- Ted Patrick, Jesus Christ and Yogananda -:- Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 02:23:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ Mickey the Pharisee -:- Ted Patrick, Jesus Christ and Yogananda -:- Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 03:44:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Gary Epton -:- Jesus and the Church -:- Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 15:48:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Mickey the Pharisee -:- Jesus and the Church -:- Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 01:43:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Mickey, you are one of my heroes -:- Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 04:38:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Mickey the Pharisee -:- Oh, shucks... -:- Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 12:28:09 (GMT)
__ Francesca -:- Read it again, credits for being honest -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 21:52:48 (GMT)
__ G -:- How about the other time? -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 20:35:39 (GMT)
__ Dermot -:- Some sincere Advice Michele -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 18:37:49 (GMT)
__ __ Steve M -:- superb advice Dermot - I agree nt -:- Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 06:09:50 (GMT)
__ Dermot -:- Michele..hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha (nt) -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 16:25:05 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- Michele, I've got news for you, honey -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 16:01:08 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- FA? Could you please change 'who' to 'whom'? (nt) -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 16:10:27 (GMT)
__ __ gerry -:- It's *whom* Jim and -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 16:07:14 (GMT)
__ Forum Administrator -:- Sorry to have to do this....... -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 15:54:01 (GMT)
__ __ Jerry -:- Sorry to have to do this....... -:- Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 02:05:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ Scott T. -:- Sorry to have to do this....... -:- Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 13:46:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ Cynthia -:- Sorry to have to do this...Geezum H. Crow!!LOL... -:- Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 02:40:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ Forum Administrator -:- Sorry to have to do this....... -:- Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 02:17:31 (GMT)
__ __ Gregg -:- Fair decision, FA. (nt) -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 16:05:54 (GMT)
__ Francesca -:- You DON'T have free speech here -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 15:08:01 (GMT)
__ Cynthia -:- You Are Very Confused, Michele... -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 14:49:12 (GMT)
__ __ Gary Epton -:- m e g a l o m a n i a c -:- Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 01:56:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ PatC -:- Brilliant, Gary....dictatorial Orwellian SmartCard -:- Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 08:03:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ Cynthia -:- Great Streaming Prose, Gary, thank you! n/t -:- Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 02:21:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- g o o d o n e , G a r y ! ! (nt) -:- Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 02:03:24 (GMT)
__ __ Steve M -:- You Are Very Clear Cynthia !!! nt -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 18:40:26 (GMT)
__ __ Joy -:- Good Post Cynthia -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 17:21:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ Cynthia -:- Thanks, Joy...more thoughts.. -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 19:14:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ Francesca -:- It isn't always good to put yourself .... -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 18:47:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Joy -:- You can't just edit a person -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 19:12:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Francesca -:- Thanks for your view -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 20:08:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Joy -:- A few more views -:- Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 00:15:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Francesca -:- A few more good views -:- Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 01:15:32 (GMT)
__ Scot J -:- Ted Patrick, Jesus Christ and Yogananda -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 14:00:19 (GMT)
__ Bob -:- Now you are asking for it !! -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 13:42:59 (GMT)
__ JohnT -:- You're wrong, Michele -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 12:26:42 (GMT)
__ Tim G -:- Ted Patrick, Jesus Christ and Yogananda -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 12:23:20 (GMT)
__ __ Mercedes -:- Ted Patrick, Jesus Christ and Yogananda -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 18:46:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ Mercedes -:- okay forgot to turn off the italics N/T -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 18:52:40 (GMT)
__ Katie H -:- Ted Patrick, Jesus Christ and Yogananda -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 12:15:42 (GMT)
__ Bryn -:- So it was Jesus all along. I thought as much.NT -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 12:12:22 (GMT)
__ Mel Bourne -:- Ted Patrick, Jesus Christ and Yogananda -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 12:11:03 (GMT)
__ __ gerry -:- Michele and the FA: Urgent !!! -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 14:10:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ Marianne -:- Agree with Gerry -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 15:26:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Deborah -:- Agree with Gerry (nt) -:- Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 00:38:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Agree with Marianne and gerry--thanks n/t -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 15:34:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Mercedes -:- Agree with Marianne, Gerry and Cynthia N/T -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 18:51:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ salam -:- Agree with some don't agree with the others -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 15:42:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ such -:- Agree with Salam et al [really bongo spam] (nt -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 18:36:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Tim G -:- That'll be Pina Coladas all round . nt -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 16:11:42 (GMT)
__ john -:- Ted Patrick, Jesus Christ and Yogananda -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 12:09:07 (GMT)
__ __ PatC -:- GET USED TO THESE KINDS OF PWK POSTS -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 17:52:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ Cynthia -:- You're Right, Pat, Get Ready for the Deluge!::)n/t -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 19:18:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ PatC -:- Apres moi, le deluge: Ascended masters, UFOs -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 19:36:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Apres moi, le deluge: Ascended masters, UFOs -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 21:14:33 (GMT)

Kirk -:- MP3s of old satsang -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 10:52:31 (GMT)
__ Moldy Warp -:- It would be fun to juxtapose Rawat with Ivor -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 22:17:40 (GMT)
__ Francesca -:- would be fun -- anyone from SHIP able to answer? -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 22:03:50 (GMT)
__ Salam -:- MP3s of old satsang -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 15:44:30 (GMT)

Bob -:- still no posts on Pia's side -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 04:08:58 (GMT)
__ Brian -:- it-wont-last.org -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 11:23:57 (GMT)
__ janet -:- i've been thinking about this -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 10:11:43 (GMT)
__ __ Deborah -:- Bingo!!!!Bingo!!!!!Bingo!!!!!!!!!!!!Bingooooooo -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 23:15:29 (GMT)
__ __ Scot J -:- OH yeah. You are dead right. -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 14:21:32 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- More hate and lies. -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 09:26:15 (GMT)
__ __ donner -:- More hate and lies. -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 23:26:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ AJW -:- Welcome back leader. -:- Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 09:14:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Dermot -:- You were mentioned Anth... -:- Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 09:58:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- That's not enough Dermot. -:- Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 16:30:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Dermot -:- LOL :) (nt) -:- Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 20:00:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ Richard -:- Donner, here's the website -:- Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 00:08:38 (GMT)

G -:- The voice of independence? -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 03:19:48 (GMT)
__ WMary -:- They got one thing right... -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 11:01:33 (GMT)
__ __ Dermot -:- 'small group of people' -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 16:09:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ AJW -:- 'small but growing group of people' -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 20:29:40 (GMT)
__ Daneane -:- The voice of independence? -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 05:00:05 (GMT)

bazza -:- Was this guy at Latvian night or what??? -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 03:18:21 (GMT)
__ Richard -:- 'Can you say schizophrenic?' - Mr. Rogers -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 15:50:28 (GMT)
__ __ Mercedes -:- 'Can you say schizophrenic?' - Mr. Rogers -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 19:00:24 (GMT)
__ Steve Quint -:- Another Gemstone -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 14:36:10 (GMT)
__ Steve Quint -:- Was this guy at Latvian night or what??? -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 11:25:28 (GMT)
__ __ Bazza -:- Hal? -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 19:12:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ Steve Quint -:- Hal, As In Highway To Hal -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 23:35:54 (GMT)
__ __ Steve Quint -:- O.K. - Here's The Sound Clips -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 16:09:28 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- LOL :) (nt) -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 09:57:13 (GMT)
__ Marianne -:- Was this guy at Latvian night or what??? -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 03:19:49 (GMT)

Deborah -:- Michelle PROMISES to Never READ my posts -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 00:04:01 (GMT)
__ such -:- like,[s]he promised to leave,too. Waco, maybe? -:- Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 06:21:35 (GMT)
__ Dermot -:- Your lucky Deb I aint been so graced yet:) (nt) -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 00:35:21 (GMT)
__ __ bill -:- I'll take her place:) (nt) -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 21:48:04 (GMT)

susan c. -:- K. C. in troy, michigan -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 22:08:24 (GMT)
__ Silvia -:- Yeap, I got your address NT -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 01:25:05 (GMT)
__ __ Sandy -:- Silvia -:- Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 02:51:34 (GMT)

gerry -:- rawat's *wit and wisdom* Over my head fer sure... -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 21:07:31 (GMT)
__ mr.bojangles -:- Drownin' in the Mayo. -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 01:24:54 (GMT)
__ __ suchabanana -:- like pasting fake Eggless Mayo labels on a jar (nt -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 06:18:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ mr.bojangles -:- Legless in Mayo. -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 19:22:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ such -:- no wonder premies got the runs from the cult mayo -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 22:01:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ mr.bojangles -:- Mayo Cult has Premies running for more. -:- Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 00:15:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ suchabanana -:- ya ya, hahahahahahahahahha!!!!!!!!!!!!! P+L, -:- Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 06:11:37 (GMT)
__ CD -:- have -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 22:37:39 (GMT)
__ __ Francesca -:- The spiritual placebo effect -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 05:38:38 (GMT)
__ __ Dermot -:- So he can spout any ole tripe u mean CD ? (nt) -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 22:46:59 (GMT)
__ Bin Liner -:- Ratspin on 'Be Here Now' .. also shite (nt) -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 22:35:09 (GMT)
__ __ Dermot -:- nice turn of phrase...ratspin :)) (nt) -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 22:37:32 (GMT)
__ Dermot -:- Look Gerry, you're a hate filled Ex -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 21:53:33 (GMT)
__ __ Francesca -:- You're starting to sound like Lorna Doone -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 05:40:37 (GMT)

JoAnn -:- Latvian Night -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 20:31:33 (GMT)
__ Deborh -:- Latvian Night--Wish I was there -:- Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 00:24:14 (GMT)
__ Joe -:- Hey JoAnn -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 21:42:42 (GMT)
__ Wildflower -:- Latvian Night -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 13:52:37 (GMT)
__ Joy -:- Latvian Night -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 01:22:52 (GMT)
__ __ Disculta -:- Latvian Night -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 02:03:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ Marianne -:- Latvian Night -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 02:43:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Chuck Sprague -:- Latvian Night - no devotional ladder, indeed! -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 05:24:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Mercedes -:- Latvian Night - no devotional ladder, indeed! -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 20:38:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Great post, Chuck -- really nice (nt) -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 15:52:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Francesca -:- ***BEST OF FORUM**** Great post Chas!!! n/t -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 05:43:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Joy -:- Yes, Brilliant, Chuck! -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 06:03:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Chuck Sprague -:- I think you would have loved it, Joy... -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 07:51:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Helen -:- Latvian thoughts -:- Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 21:40:43 (GMT)
__ Francesca -:- Love you JoAnn -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 20:47:27 (GMT)
__ PatC -:- JoAnn, I was so thrilled when I saw you -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 20:43:18 (GMT)
__ __ Deep Tongue -:- To Pia: Last night 24 members of the secret cabal -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 20:46:45 (GMT)

PatC -:- My apologies to Michele Deradune -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 19:35:35 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- Have you been playing with that pornolizer again? -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 10:01:53 (GMT)
__ Cynthia -:- Patsy, Let It Roll Right Off Your Back... -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 21:36:30 (GMT)
__ __ Tony -:- Hey Cynth,don't pinch my nickname for Pat C. -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 10:03:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ Cynthia -:- Waaaiit just one minute! -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 14:57:09 (GMT)
__ Nigel -:- Unnecessary Pat, IMO -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 20:36:10 (GMT)
__ Dermot -:- Laudable Pat but ... -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 19:47:08 (GMT)
__ __ clh -:- response to: Laudable Pat but . -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 20:06:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ Dermot -:- response to: Laudable Pat but . -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 20:15:11 (GMT)
__ __ Dermot -:- excuse grammar/spelling...wound up :) (nt) -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 19:53:06 (GMT)
__ clh -:- Reply, from clh: My apologies to Michele Deradune -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 19:44:04 (GMT)
__ __ PatC -:- Reply, to clh: No those pics are not of Michele -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 20:02:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ clh -:- Reply, to clh: No those pics are not of Michele -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 20:10:03 (GMT)
__ __ Katie H -:- That's 'Thelma' - Pat's alter-ego (nt) -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 19:57:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ PatC -:- Katie, Chuck did that spoof using Thelma -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 21:56:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Katie H -:- Hey, Thelma rules...what can I say? -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 01:34:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Charles Sprague -:- A correction, and an acknowledgement... -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 23:40:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Cocker Spamiel -:- Makes me wanna bow wow down, dogonnit! (nt) -:- Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 19:46:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Dermot -:- You too can be....my god that's soooo funny -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 00:24:04 (GMT)


Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 11:51:26 (GMT)
From: Michele Deradune
Email: michele@deradune.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Ted Patrick, Jesus Christ and Yogananda
Message:
I was just remembering about how a couple times I was asked to transcribe things that were to be kept confidential. I kept them confidential for 25 years now. I'll go ahead and reveal that little bit.

One thing was tapes of Ted Patrick. I don't know why it was so confidential. My take on it was that the executives at DUO (the Divine United Organization) didn't want to alarm the premie public. Like most high-echelon 'suits,' they felt that the rank and file could not be trusted to respond appropriately to it. I never could figure that one out.

For those who haven't heard of him, (or who don't remember),Ted Patrick was famous in the U.S. as someone who would use forceable techniques, a 'psychological warfare' if you will, to get members of various groups deemed 'cults' by his judgment to 'break free' of the 'harmful hold' said 'cults' had on their members.

Ted was famous for being quite successful at times; his methods were judged effective. Only problem was, they were also highly illegal, the U.S. being a free country and all, with freedom of religion and freedom of thought. Because you see he used techniques one would more readily expect to see in POW camps where the enemies would work to break down their captives psychologically.

I don't remember *all* the details, but because it was so hush-hush it made me really pay attention. Ted got around the legalities by only 'deprogramming' the cult members who were kidnapped by their families. This way, for any deprogrammings that were unsuccessful it would be the families that were in trouble legally more than him. Families would deceptively kidnap their own relatives (usually sons or daughters), and in this case that I transcribed the family of a premie hired Ted Patrick. She was kidnapped and taken forcibly to a location. She was locked in and not allowed to leave. She was badgered, interrogated and processed. Brainwashing techniques. I transcribed Teddy himself, and the guy reminds me soooo much of, well, YOU all that have been posting here, telling me that I have free speech here.

Yes, I have free speech here. I haven't acted as grateful for that as you expect of me, but this is because the free speech here is not really free: it is verrrrrrry expensive. Most people can't afford it; most premies will not (and should not have to) pay. The price? Being badgered almost exactly like how Ted Patrick did it. (Is that how you learned about it? Did Dettmers or Donner give you some pointers?)

Only two big exceptions. I am not locked up in a room and I come here willingly. The other is that there is not just one person screaming at me, but an entire flock of people. Psychologically, that is verrrrry intense. Not for the faint of heart, let me tell ya. (By the way, said premie I transcribed about did manage to escape Ted Patrick -- but felt psychologically damaged by the experience.)

Why do I post here willingly when I am treated like this? The most strongly motivating factor is this: Elan Vital would never report what I have to say to Maharaji, because I am blowing the whistle on people that have been lying to Maharaji for decades. Those very same people have 'psychological' control over many premies (who think they are doing Maharaji's will when sometimes they are doing the will of the people who would seek to control Maharaji's money and power).

Is that sooooo hard to believe? That there might be some people close to Maharaji who seek to control Maharaji's money and power? I have stated before, and I will state it again: I do not know who those people are by name. The reason I KNOW they are there is only because my heart is true (as many, many, many premies hearts are true) and we know what we have had to put up with Elan Vital in a way that Maharaji doesn't know, because he has not been told our side of the story. 'Our' side being the silent majority of premies.

I have this one really bad habit. I can't seem to shut my mouth anymore, not when it comes to the Golden One versus the Beast.

I have been very blessed in my life, not only because I found Maharaji (the Golden One is my own personal favorite name for him), but also because I have been personally bless and yes, even empowered, by Jesus Christ. Though I do not belong to any church. Rather, I belong to the 'body of Christ,' meaning (for all those of you who are not Christians and may not be familiar) the masses of true Christians who love their Lord. No temple or church is required -- only that love and that faith and connection to and in Jesus Christ. I have been chosen by the Holy Spirit (from a long, long time ago), and I didn't know why or what I was chosen for at the time I received the Holy Spirit, in what I might call a private (only myself as a witness) Pentacost. The Holy Spirit has cleansed me and blessed me.

Now, some people don't want to be blessed by the Holy Spirit. You know why? I can tell you, that's for sure. It's because the Will of God comes through the Holy Spirit into a person so blessed and commands that person to do or say certain things from time to time. The person truly blessed with the Holy Spirit, such as myself, who loves the Lord and loves the Holy Spirit, must obey the Holy Spirit.

There are others in the Army of God, if you will, who have blessed me. I never could figure out why I was getting so darned many blessings, because nobody else was telling me they were getting so many blessings. I stopped telling people about them for the most part when one lifelong, sweet, sweet old lady Christian I confided to said to me, 'I have been a Christian all my life, and I have never experienced the things you are talking about [though she was familiar with the phenomena by reading the Bible]. I have been a Christian all my life and you have only been a Christian for a few weeks. Why haven't *I* had any of those experiences?'

I felt sad when she said that. For one thing, I felt like a rich person that just found out they described a fancy high-dollar scrumptious meal I just ate to a starving person -- and I couldn't even share that meal with her, because she chose to feel doubtful that I was telling the truth rather than share my happiness and blessing as a wondrous thing.

I have also been blessed by Yogananda, another past 'Master' if you will (who was well known in the U.S., especially California, for his beautiful teachings and his amazing ability to link the Hindu world to the Christian world in his followers). Many may ask, 'How can you say that Yogananda was a True Master? Obviously we can all see that he was born on such-and-such a year and left his body in mahasamadhi on such-and-such a year [I believe it was in the 1940s]. That would make his divine leadership coincide with that of Shri Maharaji, Maharaji's biologiical father and Master.'

I have an answer to that: Because it just is. It is true; that is 'why' it's true. And by the way, to my knowledge (which in this area is quite extensive) neither Shri Maharaji nor Maharaji have EVER said that they were the 'only one' -- although countless times Maharaji was asked that question. Maharaji never ever, ever, ever said he was the 'only one.' I never could figure that one out. Now I feel I know why. Yogananda was also a True Guru.

Why I have I been blessed by so many? Jesus Christ. Yogananda. And even Maharaji, both with Knowledge and Holy Breath (and many, many, many others have been blessed with the Holy Breath and no doubt armies of others have been blessed, as I have, by Jesus Christ and Yogananda as well!). Why, you say?

I asked that question too. Now I know why. Because it is the Armageddon, if you will. Those who would seek to retain control over the information Maharaji receives, I hereby annouce that it is indeed THEY who are all or part of the Beast 666 -- they would would dare to hurt, hinder and/or deceive the Golden One, my dearest Friend -- Maharaji.

I love you, Maharaji. Pranams!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 09:29:16 (GMT)
From: nagual rain
Email: None
To: Michele Deradune
Subject: Ted Patrick, Jesus Christ and Yogananda
Message:
nice post there michele,you have my blessings too...
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Date: Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 12:46:57 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: nagual rain
Subject: You don't really have to quote the whole loadacrap
Message:
ya know. You probably drive on the center line too.

--Scott

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Date: Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 15:56:17 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: He could have said that he agrees in one line
Message:
instead of wasting so much space.
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Date: Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 03:01:39 (GMT)
From: AhA
Email: None
To: Michele Deradune
Subject: I got YOU now!! MASTERS ARE GOOD...
Message:
so, all master are ok, including maharaji, right?

NO NEED for a master to live life well, you loser!You guys are getting clever, eh? I'll tell you what: How many stories can YOU premies write to convey THAT IS OK TO HAVE A MASTER?? You guys are sooooooo stupid, my!!!!^$^&*god! If this is your intention I don't think you're going to keep it up. You're boring! You write well but your intentions are repugnant and dishonest as other premies you 'ARE DYING TO GIVE SATSANG', you egomaniac!

Who are you fooling Michelle?

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Date: Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 02:27:13 (GMT)
From: Parsley
Email: None
To: Michele Deradune
Subject: shushhhhhh
Message:
Why do I post here willingly when I am treated like this? The most strongly motivating factor is this: Elan Vital would never report what I have to say to Maharaji, because I am blowing the whistle on people that have been lying to Maharaji for decades.

Pleeeeeeeeeeeeease, give US, the ones who know well the 'enchilada' a brake. You are kidding not just yourself but us, right?

Yuck! brain dead...thick

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Date: Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 01:41:57 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Michele Deradune
Subject: The Holy Spirit
Message:
Now, some people don't want to be blessed by the Holy Spirit. You know why? I can tell you, that's for sure.

It doesn't matter if they want to or not. With the right brain chemistry they will be.

Check out Religion And The Brain

Now an argument can be given for the possibility that the brain is just God's medium for revealing himself to people, WHETHER THEY WANT THAT REVELATION OR NOT. Historically, I think you probably have more instances of the 'road to Cana' than any other type of divine revelations. More people, it seems, are struck by lightning, so to speak, in their revelations than through any concerted effort of their own. It's not uncommon for sinners and atheists to become believers in this manner. In fact, it's probably the only way that they do, so your argument about people not wanting to be blessed by the 'Holy Spirit' is moot. That so called spirit 'blesses' whomever it wants to, whenever it wants to, no matter how decrepid(sp) or virtuous, or unwilling the recipient of such blessings is. As I alluded to in the first paragraph, brain chemistry has no preferences. So please read the article on religion and the brain. I think it's important to understand the underlying neurology that exists in times of holy rapture if you're to more completely grasp it's meaning.

I felt like a rich person that just found out they described a fancy high-dollar scrumptious meal I just ate to a starving person -- and I couldn't even share that meal with her, because she chose to feel doubtful that I was telling the truth rather than share my happiness and blessing as a wondrous thing.

That's not it, Michelle. And if I may say so, that's a rather elitist outlook on your behalf. It really only boils down to the fact that her brain chemistry was never altered in the manner that your's was where she would have such an experience. It had nothing to do with a choice by her anymore than it had to do with a choice by you. Nobody brings the 'Holy Spirit' upon themselves simply by choosing to. It's not that simple. Like you say, it was a 'blessing'. Blessings aren't anything chosen. Blessings happen of their own accord, not as a reward for any virtue on your behalf.

Those who would seek to retain control over the information Maharaji receives, I hereby annouce that it is indeed THEY who are all or part of the Beast 666 -- they would would dare to hurt, hinder and/or deceive the Golden One, my dearest Friend -- Maharaji.

It's all in your mind.

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Date: Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 02:10:24 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Correction
Message:
Historically, I think you probably have more instances of the 'road to Cana' than any other type of divine revelations.

I meant 'road to Damascus', like when Paul got thrown from his horse while he was on his way there.

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Date: Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 00:41:53 (GMT)
From: Sir David
Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com
To: Michele Deradune
Subject: Thanks for that Michele
Message:
Michele; I appreciate your posts here and would say that if people here don't accept your posts then they are not broad minded enough to read them and see the passion that is in them.

They are heartfelt posts and in many cases, moving and I see no reason for you to be blocked or prevented from posting here. In the event that you were blocked, you can always continue to write on my own forum which is The ANYTHING GOES Forum.

Even though I am an 'ex-premie' I do find your posts to be particularly moving and deep. You are not superficial and you write very well and convey your feelings without inhibition. That is a quality I admire and am often drawn to.

The fact that you are able to write what you sincerely feel, despite the apparent opposition here does require a certain courage and fortitude. Again, these are qualities I admire. I look beyond the so called premie/ex-premie veneer and try to see the person who is posting. Indeed, there are many premies who have posted here who have been extremely obnoxious but you, Michele do not fall into that catagory. Your words are like poetry and your essence that comes across is not an aggressive one put a kind and thoughtful one.

Casting my eyes down this thread, it would appear that there are some who do not agree with me. However, please don't let that put you off. If people ridicule you are put you down, they quite simply don't know you - they are mistaken. Of that I am sure.

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Date: Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 02:29:17 (GMT)
From: Bazza
Email: None
To: Sir David
Subject: A good suggestion
Message:
As it happens she isn't blocked here Dave, the FA just limited her to 500 words a day.

But I do think she would be more at home on your forum and in good company too.

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Date: Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 02:17:43 (GMT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Sir David
Subject: Sir David: Please Explain this Post
Message:
What the hell are you thinking? It's one thing to say that you enjoy her posts. I can't correct your Taste.

It's ridiculous to say that she should have the right to say anything when this is DEPROGRAMMING HEADQUARTERS. What part of that is so difficult to understand? Premies should be used to censor, they have no access to truth. What they are trying to find here, doesn't exist. It doesn't exist because this is the last place to have your BigHead belief system doubts validated once and for all. Why is she here? I don't go to Porno cites or Hate-Filled cites because it adversely affects my sense of entertainment and belief systems (right, wrong or indifferent). I can't bring them down, or force them to edit their material, I simply don't indulge.

However, IT IS CLEARLY ANOTHER, TO ADMIRE HIS PROSE AND ELOQUENT CONTRIBUTION, We may agree or agree to disagree on whether or to what extent the BigHead is a DickHead and Why or How but please do not give her Pulitzer Admiration. You are discrediting yourself by saying that.

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Date: Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 02:34:57 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: Sir David: Please Explain this Post
Message:
I am discrediting myself???

That does not compute. I know what I am and whatever I say here is entirely what I think. I guess if people don't like it, they can express that if they want. I can't please everyone and I wouldn't try.

I don't have anything to explain. You aren't me and can't get inside my head. It all seems right to me. Maybe not to you though.

And since when was this forum the deprogramming headquarters? It's a cafe. People drop in, eat a bit, say a bit and then leave. There is no formal function to this place, in my mind. Perhaps there is in yours though.

Well, the old hippie expression comes to mind - 'It's all in your own head, man.'

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Date: Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 12:57:30 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Sir David: Please Explain this Post
Message:
David:

By definition cult membership implies passion. That's hardly a qualification for admiration, except in a very narrow sense. No matter how circumlocuted this individual's justifications the logic is basically the same as any other cult member, which is to say *not* logical. If and when she can learn to be self-critical and self-reflective her observations about this site and it's contributors would be more worthy of attention, and possibly praise. I'm also highly skeptical of the support of grandiosity. I've seen its consequences.

--Scott

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Date: Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 03:30:13 (GMT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Sir David: Try it AGAIN,
Message:
Sir David, It's not that I (We) don't want you to say what you mean it's that I (We) want't you to explain what you mean.

Do you see the difference. Substantiate the allegations. When you go off onto a tangent by saying you have the right to say what you want and nobody can get into your head...well what does that silly statement have to do with my comments. WHY? Because it's not in my head, it's what you wrote in the POST. I'm asking you to explain What you Said in the POST, nothing else.

If you feel threatened,leave for awhile or for good. That's not a threat, it's the only logical thing to do. Why be somewhere you don't enjoy. Think about what this means to you. Why is this forum scaring you? Tell us what YOU think.

What would you do, if we were right?

By the way, my biggest query was about Michele's writings being eloquently written. What's UP with that?

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Date: Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 02:45:42 (GMT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Sir Dave--Did you accidently answer wrong POST
Message:
You did not address my statements at all.

Instead you launch into some Fear-Based (hmm I wonder why) you chose that expression 'You can't get into my Head!' Why did that sub-consciously come out in response to my comments.

Take a deep breath, Go back and read my comment(s) again. Then point for point explain yourself.

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Date: Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 01:33:41 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Sir David
Subject: What a ridiculous post, Dave!
Message:
'particularly moving and deep', 'poetry'?.

What's your favorite part?:

Because it just is. It is true; that is 'why' it's true.

That's pretty good.

How about:

Because it is the Armageddon, if you will. Those who would seek to retain control over the information Maharaji receives, I hereby annouce that it is indeed THEY who are all or part of the Beast 666 -- they would would dare to hurt, hinder and/or deceive the Golden One, my dearest Friend -- Maharaji.

Either you're taking the piss out of this poor, lost soul or .... or what, Dave?

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Date: Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 02:15:21 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: That's your opinion and
Message:
I really don't give a damn. I don't think she is a 'poor soul' any more than you are. No, I'm not taking the piss, either.

If you go and sit down with some Amazonian Indians, they will tell you things about their beliefs that the Western mind might find pretty incredible. But would you ridicule them in front of their fire while you were eating their food?

When in Rome..

I accept that other people's beliefs and experiences are different to mine. It doesn't mean they are 'poor souls' or any more or less deluded than I am. Neither do I think they are inferior or superior to me. We have had different experiences. To accept that takes away a lot of conflict It's the motivation that I tend to look at.

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Date: Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 02:30:29 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: You're saying some PRETTY dumb things, Dave
Message:
A very ill-advised opinion, Dave. Entirely indefensible if not downright stupid, I dare say. 'When in Rome' ... look, even if that were true (which it isn't), we were in Rome, weren't we?

Okay, this is just Dave-the-Contrarian. I know. You do stuff like this every once in a while.

Go for it. Tell us how there is no reality and, ho, what's this? A new way of living? Go for the motivation? Why that sounds great!

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Date: Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 02:43:27 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: But you always say that
Message:
and I never take any notice, so where does it get us? I meant by 'Rome' the premie world or the world of devotion to Maharaji. That's the Rome I was refering to.

It does exist. Premies feel devotion to something called Maharaji. We can't deny it. So what do you do? I accept that this 'Rome' exists. That to me is a good point from which to communicate with a Roman.

That is logical and not pretty dumb, actually.

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Date: Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 13:30:05 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: But you always say that
Message:
Dave:

Except that this is the Ex forum, not the Premie forum or neutral ground. The compulsion to post here might be a signal of an intent that is as yet unacknowledged on the part of the poster. I suppose that if you want the person to feel at ease in order to open the way to communication that's one thing, but when what's being expressed is a formulaic response to everything then the starting point for communication might be the realization that nothing's being said, beyond the person's internal re-wiring of the same old shit. It's stretching the point a bit to say 'nice re-wiring job,' but I guess you have to try and start somewhere. You have the benefit of the doubt, David. And Anything Goes is your forum anyway. Nothing that's illegitimate is being done on this forum by the exes. Not even close.

--Scott

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Date: Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 02:52:04 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Yeah? Well I guess I'm right then
Message:
Dave,

It looks like you spent the afternoon in the attic and found some old, relativistic hippie jacket to try on again or something. Lucky you, it still fits and now you're wearing it around the house a bit. It's silly as hell but, hey, it's yours, you remember actually believing this kind of subjectivist nonsense once. Why not? So you post as if to say, 'Hey everyone, how you like my new threads?' (That's a joke. Get it?)

I can't take what you're saying seriously because I know you're actually much, much smarter than that. (Notice I used the word 'actually'. That would mean nothing to you if you actually believed what you posted above.)

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Date: Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 02:30:22 (GMT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: You opined that Michele writes sooo beautifullll??
Message:
Sir Dave, ....You are currently taking Jim's words out of context. When you want to quote him, Copy and Paste the exact quote where She Said/He Said so that we can all examine the evidence critically.

Michele makes assertions that are unsubstantiated. ALWAYS

Michele never responds to comments or questions except with a comment that she will never read someone's posts again but FAILS to mention WHY NOT. She does this ALWAYS

Michele says things to appeal to our compassions but NEVER, EVER, EVER backtracks her previous comments or explains her previous behaviour. ALWAYS

Michele is looking for attention, but she only wants us to hear her and the BigHead to see her and talk abot it with her because she loves him and understands and blah..blah..blah...ALWAYS

Michele needs to Apologize...IMMEDIATELY and RETRACT some of her previous time consuming, sloppy dribble drabble say nothing Shit.

Her Hand Has Been Held Long Enough!

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Date: Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 02:50:39 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: Yep, that's right
Message:
and isn't everyone here looking for attention? Michele is a premie, so she is going to write like a premie.

She will not write like an ex-premie. It would be silly to expect that. So if people don't like her posts, they should ban all premies. But this isn't an ex-premie only forum.

Give and take, I say. Give a little, take a little. Hang loose and stay cool. It's only a forum.

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Date: Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 03:38:37 (GMT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Yep, that's right--You still think like a premie
Message:
Wrong again Sparky! It's not just a loose forum. This is a forum to expose the BigHead for what he is. And, now listen closely here, writing like a premie is not beautiful prose. Beautiful prose is beautiful prose whether you write about the moon or the BigHead. Do you see how your thinking is all screwy.

In addition, you did not handle the fact that I highlighted very clear details about WHY her writings are so NOT BEAUTIFUL and yet you only asserted that she writes differently.

Once again, Sir David you are skirting the issue. Why don't you TRY answering the issues in the post rather than doing what are doing by writing and saying NOTHING. Say Something!

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Date: Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 00:26:06 (GMT)
From: Gary Epton
Email: None
To: Michele Deradune
Subject: Hoo-ha, well that clears that up, helterskelter(nt
Message:
shnarfle
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Date: Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 00:11:04 (GMT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: None
To: Michele Deradune
Subject: Ted Patrick, Jesus Christ and Yogananda
Message:
Michele, I don't care about Ted Patrick or Yogananda, and I know that as a priest and someone who has dedicated himself to helping bring about the Reign of God my opinions are suspect, but I must question your description of the Body of Christ being 'the masses of true Christians who love their Lord. No temple or church is required -- only that love and that faith and connection to and in Jesus Christ.' The Body of Christ IS the Church, it is those who have been baptized and have accepted the Good News. It is all about community, it is all about being connected to each other and the Christ. Jesus said, 'where two or three are gathered in my name, I am in the midst of them.' That is all about community, it is not about being on ones own or not being connected to the church.

Since M shows no fruits of the Holy Spirit, it is difficult to believe that following Maharaji would be in obedience to the Holy Spirit. M does nothing to help bring about the Reign of God, that world free of hatred, illness, poverty, sexism, racism, homophobia and all the other things which separate people from each other and God. Sitting under a blanket with your fingers in your ears does not build community or help the poor.

M does nothing to help bring about the Reign of God, he shows none of the fruits of the Spirit, and your attempts to connect him to the Good News is wrong.

Just one other little point: 666 refers to Nero and nothing else.

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Date: Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 02:23:54 (GMT)
From: Gary Epton
Email: None
To: Mickey the Pharisee
Subject: Ted Patrick, Jesus Christ and Yogananda
Message:
M does nothing to help bring about the Reign of God, that world free of hatred, illness, poverty, sexism, racism, homophobia and all the other things which separate people from each other and God
Well the 'body of Christ' or the church as you have described it further up in your post, is still in the forefront of promoting homophobia and sexism in the world today.
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Date: Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 03:44:06 (GMT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: None
To: Gary Epton
Subject: Ted Patrick, Jesus Christ and Yogananda
Message:
Well, some of us are changing things. In my church there are women bishops, priests, and deacons. There are also gay bishops, priests, and deacons, and while there is a fight in the Communion regarding gay clergy, we have more dialogue happening regarding the subject than most.

What are you doing to change things?

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Date: Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 15:48:59 (GMT)
From: Gary Epton
Email: None
To: Mickey the Pharisee
Subject: Jesus and the Church
Message:
Mickey, I'm not involved in the church so therefore I am not involved in any attempt to reform deeply entrenched and (supposed) biblically supported attitudes towards women and homosexuals. I respect your right to serve and have faith in what you choose. Having read Marianne's post below I am certain you are doing many good works and having much positive influence of people's lives, and that I applaud. The only thing I am doing to change things is changing myself by becoming more aware of how misplaced my own personal faith has been. Freeing myself and contributing/participating with EPO is part of this. Therefore, personally I am not likely to seek involvement with Jesus or the subsequent institutions that have arisen in his wake. However, I do believe that we ought to try to love one another as we learn to love ourselves.
Love, Gary
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Date: Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 01:43:03 (GMT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: None
To: Gary Epton
Subject: Jesus and the Church
Message:
Thanks, Gary, for your post.
I really don't think that everyone has to be a Christian or join a church, but it is important to me to clarify certain points about Christianity. It is a large religion with diverse theologies, and it is important to me to emphasize that not all Christians are right-wing whackos. I also find it necessary to clarify things when there is a strange post like Michele's or some of the others which appear here, especially those who try to connect Jesus and M, as there is absolutely no connection. That is what I was doing regarding Michele's post.

I apologize for being a little sharp in my reply, but this site can be a bit hostile at times, and, like many others here, I get defensive. And I agree, we should try to love one another as we learn to love ourselves.
Hasta luego,
Michael

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Date: Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 04:38:52 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: MarianneDB@aol.com
To: Mickey the Pharisee
Subject: Mickey, you are one of my heroes
Message:
Mickey, I don't know if I've ever said this to you before. You are one of my heroes. You are living your beliefs in the most humble and practical ways possible. You are compassionate. You, and your family, have sacrificed, in order to share the gifts of spirit you experience.

You inspire me as a person, and you inspire me as a spiritual seeker. Thank you for everything you do. I take strength in my own work and in my life from having known you.

Fondly, Marianne

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Date: Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 12:28:09 (GMT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Oh, shucks...
Message:
Thank you, Marianne. I wish I could have been back home in the City and dined with you and the exes last week. I was in Parita, a little one-horse town in the Interiór, singing Monteverde's 'Vespers of the Holy Virgin' in a 17th century church. The entire town was there! Mona and I stayed with a family and are realizing that we actually can converse in Spanish.
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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 21:52:48 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Michele Deradune
Subject: Read it again, credits for being honest
Message:
Joy made me think about it, plus I also saw a picture of you on a professional organization website in Austin. This put a face on the person, rather than seeing you as some raving cartoon.

Although I don't agree with your view in the least, are you letting it hang here partially because in your profession you certainly can't let all this stuff hang, and amongst premies you can't even let it hang? Just curious.

==f

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 20:35:39 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Michele Deradune
Subject: How about the other time?
Message:
'I was just remembering about how a couple times I was asked to transcribe things that were to be kept confidential. ... One thing was tapes of Ted Patrick.'

What was the other thing? Please reveal that also, there is no need for secrecy.

'...we know what we have had to put up with Elan Vital in a way that Maharaji doesn't know, because he has not been told our side of the story.'

I think that is just a story you are being told, it's just a way for him not to accept responsibility and to shift blame on to others for his own actions. He has people do things, then blames them when they carry out his orders.

But let's assume that it is true, what would it imply? First, it would imply that there are things that he doesn't know, and yet he has people sing devotional songs to him with lines saying that he is all knowing. Second, it would imply that he is incompetent, that he doesn't even know what is going on in his organization.

'...neither Shri Maharaji nor Maharaji have EVER said that they were the 'only one' '

Marolyn, his wife, said at a large program to premies 'Maharaji is the only way.' Maharaji showed his silent approval when she said that. He refers to himself as 'the Master', not 'a Master'. He has on many occasions made statements implying that he is the only 'Master'. Besides, it would still be quite arrogant and demeaning to others for him to say that he is 'a Master'. The whole concept is an insult.

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 18:37:49 (GMT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Michele Deradune
Subject: Some sincere Advice Michele
Message:
Michele

If you really love Prem Pal Singh Rawat and you really think he is your 'master' then just forget this site. We (or 99.9% of us here) are a lost cause in that regard.

I personally considered myself a premie ( with varying degrees of sincerity) for a period of 25 YEARS.That's a long time, Michele, to truly sincerely 100% suss out where I stand in relation to Prem Pal and k...

I don't think anyone here 'hates' you...you have said some do ...Ireally don't think so.Many though are sick to the teeth of your satsangy message. Thats all.....it's nothing personal...believe me.

Go back to Rawat ....attend the programs...listen to him ....do the techniques ....FORGET ABOUT WHAT EVERY ONE ELSE THINKS (Premies and ex's) and see where that leads you. Straddling both camps as you are doing right now is , as others have pointed out, unhealthy. Be totally honest with yourself ( ultimately its the only way)and make up your own mind and heart. If after leaving here and concentrating on Rawat you decide to stick with him .....then I'd think you'd have made a seriously wrong decision BUT it will be YOUR decision. I think though there is a chance that you'll remember this site and its contributors and BEGIN to SINCERELY LEAVE Rawat.Then come back here....even if you don't call yourself an EX 100%.

At present I think you're just playing a game. A game of confused emotions and ideas. It comes across as very superficial. I may be wrong but I don't think so.

So take a break from here is my advice.

Best Wishes to you.

Dermot.

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Date: Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 06:09:50 (GMT)
From: Steve M
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: superb advice Dermot - I agree nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 16:25:05 (GMT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Michele Deradune
Subject: Michele..hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha (nt)
Message:
zz
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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 16:01:08 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Michele Deradune
Subject: Michele, I've got news for you, honey
Message:
Sorry, girl, but you're a complete fruitcake. Your facts are bizarre. Your logic is amazing. Your assumptions are out of this world. Your history couln't be more inaccurate. Finally, your read on human nature is completely from another planet.

Did you ever have any sexual contact with Maharaji, by the way? Did he ever hit on you or anything? How about Raja Ji whom you loved so dearly? Sorry to ask but, well, I've got my own little speculation. That's all it is, not even a theory but, well, care to answer?

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 16:10:27 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: FA? Could you please change 'who' to 'whom'? (nt)
Message:
ggggggg
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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 16:07:14 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: It's *whom* Jim and
Message:
I hope you read my post in this thread.
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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 15:54:01 (GMT)
From: Forum Administrator
Email: None
To: Michele Deradune
Subject: Sorry to have to do this.......
Message:
Michele, I have imposed a daily posting limit of 1 post containing 500 words or less. If this still proves unworkable for everyone concerned, I will have no choice other than to block you completely.

I am sure you will scream 'Free Speech' etc etc but it really is for your own good, as has been pointed out by others here, whose opinion and judgement I trust completely.

We implore you to seek professional psychiatric advice.

Take care,

FA

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Date: Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 02:05:39 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Forum Administrator
Subject: Sorry to have to do this.......
Message:
We implore you to seek professional psychiatric advice.

I don't think that's fair, FA. People have all kinds of freaky ideas. That includes premies, ex-premies and never-been-premies. It doesn't mean you're crazy. It just means, like Jim said, you're a fruitcake. There's a difference. Michelle is just openly expressing her own bizarre take on things. Yes, that can be dangerous when people are quick to judge your sanity if you do. But freaky ideas are a dime a dozen. I still sense some semblance of rationality and coherence on Michelle's part in spite of them. She just uses it in a twisted way to bolster her beliefs in Golden Boy. Haven't we all?

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Date: Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 13:46:56 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Sorry to have to do this.......
Message:
Jerry:

I still sense some semblance of rationality and coherence on Michelle's part in spite of them. She just uses it in a twisted way to bolster her beliefs in Golden Boy. Haven't we all?

What do you mean by 'semblance of rationality and coherence?' If she's making an attempt to resemble rational and coherent thought patterns, then that's no more than any other premie tries to do here. Is there anything beyond that, that strikes your fancy? Just curious.

--Scott

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Date: Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 02:40:23 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Sorry to have to do this...Geezum H. Crow!!LOL...
Message:
Jerry, you said:

''I don't think that's fair, FA. People have all kinds of freaky ideas. That includes premies, ex-premies and never-been-premies. It doesn't mean you're crazy. It just means, like Jim said, you're a fruitcake. There's a difference.''

I am rolling over on my keyboard, that's the funniest thing I've read in a loooong time!

Crazy vs. fruitcake! Love it...! LOLOLOLOL!

Cynthia, Chairwoman, Crazy vs. Fruitcake Committee

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Date: Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 02:17:31 (GMT)
From: Forum Administrator
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Sorry to have to do this.......
Message:
I am not implying she is crazy either, Jerry, and that comment betrays a rather limited understanding of the work done by psychiatrists.

In fact it has nothing to do with the outlandish ideas she expressed, either. If you have been following Michele's posting here you will have sensed an escalating level of emotional distress and irrationality, and an underlying desparation in the poor woman to have some deep issues dealt with. I am not the only one to opine that she would benefit from talking with a professional in that area.

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 16:05:54 (GMT)
From: Gregg
Email: None
To: Forum Administrator
Subject: Fair decision, FA. (nt)
Message:
x
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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 15:08:01 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Michele Deradune
Subject: You DON'T have free speech here
Message:
You are shadow boxing here. This is an EX-PREMIE forum, and it is moderated. This isn't the town square in front of the courthouse or something, sheesh!

And setting yourself up as a hounded martyr in post after post is annoying, to put it politely. I can't see you, but you've probably sprouted stimata by now. You come to a place where it is GUARANTEED that almost NO ONE agrees with your views, and whine and complain and shadow box.

I think Bryn's right also -- you're high on your megalomania. You are sure you know the truth and that everyone else doesn't. I do not want to find out in several months or years that you went off the deep end, so I hope you find a way to cool it, or find people with whom you have some common ground on your core issues.

However, that being said, there are many folks on the Forum that sound like raving loonies, and they are just using the Forum as a wailing wall. But at least they stay on topic.

Best of luck, but you're a pest and a pain.

Francesca
PS -- in case you hadn't heard the old news, M is a persona non grata in Dera Dun area, at least at Prem Nagar, which was taken over by Satpal (Bal Bhagwan Ji) in the 70s.

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 14:49:12 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Michele Deradune
Subject: You Are Very Confused, Michele...
Message:
Michele said:

Yes, I have free speech here. I haven't acted as grateful for that as you expect of me, but this is because the free speech here is not really free: it is verrrrrrry expensive. Most people can't afford it; most premies will not (and should not have to) pay. The price? Being badgered almost exactly like how Ted Patrick did it. (Is that how you learned about it? Did Dettmers or Donner give you some pointers?)

My response to you Michele is that it has become obvious you haven't read this website! If you have, you still don't get what this website and forum are about. I have personal experience with Ted Patrick during my ashram stay in Hartford, btw, and I was also living at the Broadripple (the DECA project) when an instructor was also taken.

For you to compare Michael Dettmers and Michael Donners with Ted Patrick is ludicrous. These are former PAMs who had rejected Maharaji long before they ever posted here. They had nothing to gain by coming to F5 and telling of their experiences living around Maharaji. While we exes have known for quite some time about Maharaji's very bad behavior toward premies and PAMs, and his immoral behavior in general, the appearance here of both Michaels was a refreshing and revealing look at the real Rotwat (not the actor on the stage) from the point of view of two men who experienced Maharaji on a personal basis.

You are not in that position, Michele. You are mixed up because you can't believe that Maharaji would shit on you (which he does every day you stay in the cult and place all of your love at his feet). Believe me, I was once in your position. I blamed the premies, the initiators, DLM, EV, everyone BUT Maharaji for the craziness happening within the organization. Yet from my own personal experiences during the DECA project I saw Maharaji's true colors. Believe me, no one does anything without his orders. EV and Maharaji are one and the same. You won't believe this, therefore you remain stuck in that very creepy place of magical thinking about who you believe is: the Lord of the Universe. And I have heard him say who he thinks he is with my own ears!

Maharaji is a megalomaniac. He has never cared one iota for the premies other than the attention and money he can get from them. He's a personality cult leader and EV does everything he wants. He must always have his way--or he has temper tantrums, just like a 42 year old little brat. He abuses people physically and verbally. Maharaji has taken money from all of us here and built himself an financial empire that he has no right to have. Maharaji is a conman and it's time you started looking at the leader of EV, instead of insisting some evil beast is exploiting him. That's where you aren't thinking correctly. Maharaji contradicts himself constantly and then laughs at you. And you cannot see that because you are engulfed in worshipping him and that is a very tough thing to wrap your mind around. You must start using your mind and intellect and start doubting Maharaji.

What you are doing is very transparent, Michele. You're making a trade-off. Think about this: how would Maharaji sustain his level of opulent living without EV and the various companies which support him and his family? He simply couldn't and doesn't.

You took his cue from the recent Amaroo speaks he gave in which he purposely tried to separate himself from EV because of his wimpy meeting with Abi's father (which happened shortly before the Amaroo googoo fest. Before and after this meeting Maharaji dumped the matter into the hands of EV's legal team. Maharaji did know about sexual abuse of children by Jagdeo long before this year; he's too much of a coward to do anything about it himself because it would tarnish his ''Golden One'' image among you true believers.

Listen, I'm not trying to convert you into being an ex. Frankly I don't care either way.

IMO, I think you are trying to get Maharaji's personal attention by posting here. But hasn't he already stated that the old ''hindi'' speak are now disallowed? Yet you ended your post by writing ''pranam, Maharaji.''

WOW, you are disobeying your goomraji, Michele. Or are you hiding something else from us? As for the price of posting here, yes, it is expensive because you are a guest. I have paid a great price to Maharaji, not EPO, for wasting 25 years of my life on him. This is our place to talk to eachother, whether or not you, Maharaji, EV or anyone likes it. Now that's freedom of speech!

Remember, if you come here and give satsang you will annoy people to the point of getting blocked. Besides, you are disobeying your ''golden one's'' agya. Get your head straight, Michele. Maybe if you posted less and read more, you'd come to some conclusions and a better understanding that we are here to help and support exes, not premies who refuse to believe they are in a cult.

Cynthia

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Date: Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 01:56:02 (GMT)
From: Gary Epton
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: m e g a l o m a n i a c
Message:
Maharaji is a megalomaniac. He has never cared one iota for the premies other than the attention and money he can get from them. He's a personality cult leader and EV does everything he wants. He must always have his way--or he has temper tantrums, just like a 42 year old little brat. He abuses people physically and verbally.
Precisely. The Perfect Master/LOTU trip that he has been on since he was 8, leaving home at 13 or whatever young age it was to come to the west to spread the Word. Most adolescents get reined in until they are mature enough to make evaluative decisions. L'il Prempal has been on one long unchecked adolescent rebellion. Re-inforced initially by thousands of post-LSD casualties seeking answers to the cosmos and finally touching down decades later to some sort of dictatorial Orwellian SmartCard infomercial seminar supported by shiny, synchronized corporate lackeys and regimental group-think underlings. Thoroughly bamboozled by a combination of having stumbled across the secret *avatar* whose purity cannot be questioned, being shot through and through with sugar-pop love, and the mission . . . oh yeah, the mission, to tell others so they in turn will be let in on the great secret . . . so they can take the place of all the eventual disenfranchised because they dared to question or mahooey decided to blame them for turning the greatest thing since sliced bread into dry, sterile toast . . .
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Date: Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 08:03:40 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Gary Epton
Subject: Brilliant, Gary....dictatorial Orwellian SmartCard
Message:
''...some sort of dictatorial Orwellian SmartCard infomercial seminar supported by shiny, synchronized corporate lackeys and regimental group-think underlings.''

And Big Brother on the TV 24/7.

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Date: Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 02:21:06 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Gary Epton
Subject: Great Streaming Prose, Gary, thank you! n/t
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 02:03:24 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Gary Epton
Subject: g o o d o n e , G a r y ! ! (nt)
Message:
hhhhhh
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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 18:40:26 (GMT)
From: Steve M
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: You Are Very Clear Cynthia !!! nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 17:21:53 (GMT)
From: Joy
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Good Post Cynthia
Message:
My sentiments exactly.

I don't agree that Michele should be blocked, though. If she wants to use this Forum to complain about EV, why shouldn't she? I think it provides for interesting discussion, and as long as premies don't spam and overtake the place, I don't see why they shouldn't be able to say their thing also. I think just the fact that she comes here and talks about it is a small step towards beginning to realistically think about what this involvement is and means, and that can only be a good thing.

I actually think Michele has a lot of courage in laying her religious beliefs and experiences out on the Forum for all to see and critique. I know I would have a hard time doing that.

So Michele, even though I don't agree with a lot of what you say, I do support your right to say it here (within reason, of course--if you went to a Republican convention and started saying how much you liked Bill Clinton it might ruffle a few feathers, right? Be respectful of who your audience is here.).

Take care,
Joy

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 19:14:04 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Joy
Subject: Thanks, Joy...more thoughts..
Message:
I didn't say Michele should be blocked, I told her that if she continues to speak the glories of goober, she'll annoy us to the point of getting blocked.

I am concerned, based upon this first post of hers that she is confused and may need professional help. I don't want to see anyone hurt, none of us do.

Her persistence is admirable, I must say. I also agree there seems to be an ex-premie in her trying to work out this whole Maharajism cult. I'm trying to be civil and respectful, but I am soooo sick of the satsangi.

Hope you're well,
Love,
Cynthia

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 18:47:23 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Joy
Subject: It isn't always good to put yourself ....
Message:
... in another's shoes.

You said: I actually think Michele has a lot of courage in laying her religious beliefs and experiences out on the Forum for all to see and critique. I know I would have a hard time doing that.

You are putting yourself in her place in order to say that. How do you know she has courage? Maybe she likes it and thinks she's saving us all, because there is more than a tich of megalomiania in her rants. Maybe she likes the element of spiritual striptease. I don't know what's up with her but I don't like to watch a person unravel before my eyes. It's getting ugly.

I say BLOCK HER if she can't stop with the satsang. There's no use for it here and she's wasting all our time.

I do like her critiques of EV however. She can do that all she wants, but I don't think she can separate it from her droolings over Golden Boy.

love, f

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 19:12:31 (GMT)
From: Joy
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: You can't just edit a person
Message:
... because you only like SOME of what they say. Only some of what Michelle says fits EPO criteria (i.e. her criticism of EV), but apparently that isn't enough to qualify her to be heard here, in some people's eyes.

I thought this wasn't supposed to be an exclusive club? I personally think this is an excellent chance for the very relevant issue of whether EV is or is not synonymous with Maharaji to be heard, something of apparent importance to many premies at the moment, and who better to point it out than us?

I agree that there should be limits to how much superfluous stuff premies are allowed to post here, and perhaps Michele has exceeded those limits for some people. If she were JUST proseletyzing and not making her valid claims against EV, I think the FA would be justified in blocking her. But as long as she is in any way dissatisfied with her experience of M or K or EV or whatever, I feel it is her right to air it and work on it here.

And as for putting myself in her shoes, I don't think I'd look too good in red heels, and still maintain that it's a risky thing to do to place what is most dear to you in front of what must be for her a hostile audience. If you don't like what she carries on about, don't read it. I virtually never read premie posts once I know who the premies are, and successfully avoid getting satsang-d that way (I don't think I read a single post of Christian Star's, for instance), as well as avoid the inevitable scuffles which result.

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 20:08:31 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Joy
Subject: Thanks for your view
Message:
I'm less liberal than you about what I'll listen to. And you're right, once we get used to the schpiel, if there's nothing new, we stop reading and questioning, and the annoying poster stops having anything to reply to. I've never seen the Red Heels posts, but I did avoid Christian Star. Just the handle was enough to put me off. After being on the FV for a while too, I see that everyone plays with the annoying posters like a new toy, and then we all stop piling on, and it settles out to a dull roar or they go away to some Usenet board or other forum where they can get more attention -- i.e. more of a reaction.

I'm also not as libertarian as you or Joe or several others about exclusivity. I don't mind excluding annoying premies that try to satsang us. I would last as FA about 1 day, if that long. I've no patience for it. I have no problem not being politically correct.

Of course I think you may know her, so you're a bit more patient because of that fact. Oh, come on, admit it!

love, f

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Date: Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 00:15:57 (GMT)
From: Joy
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: A few more views
Message:
Hi Fran.

Yes, probably because I knew Michele I have a much greater tolerance for listening to her satsang and devotional things. Also, because I've been there myself and know so intimately what that's all about (I was a gopi and a half, too).

But like I said earlier, I don't really think Michele, despite whether I knew her or not, is just here to preach or satsang people. I honestly feel she's trying to work out some of her issues, and particularly since she's angry at and posting negative stuff about EV, I feel she should be allowed to stay. If premies come here just to cause trouble or harangue people, then, like I said before, they should probably be banned. But I don't think that is the case here. I sense a genuine need to discuss some of this stuff.

But like I said, I'm very particular about what posts I read (I have a slow computer and limited time) -- sometimes I spend more time perusing the lists than actually opening posts. (Some quite good conversations go on, just in the titles!)

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Date: Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 01:15:32 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Joy
Subject: A few more good views
Message:
Joy:

As you may have seen in my post above to Michelle (the 2nd one), I'm starting to see some of her bare passion in all this, despite the naseating object. If she doesn't satsang us too much, I don't see any problem with her sticking around, especially since she doesn't love EV.

I repent and recant.

Love, f

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 14:00:19 (GMT)
From: Scot J
Email: None
To: Michele Deradune
Subject: Ted Patrick, Jesus Christ and Yogananda
Message:
Yes you are blessed - by Jesus, and by others. And you are blessed with an inclination to speak out freely about your experiences. You live in a culture where spiritual experience is usually dismissed and insulted. That's not ex-premies, that's the average around the world. Don't let anybody shut you down, you are OK. I for one see us as on the same path (maybe different sides of the same path.) Best wishes.
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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 13:42:59 (GMT)
From: Bob
Email: None
To: Michele Deradune
Subject: Now you are asking for it !!
Message:
If you are elaborating about your love for rawat and call him 'the golden one ' on this site, you can not expect to be taken seriously. You can also expect to be treated rather unpolitely. Do not start complaining about this.
Unless you are completely deaf and blind you must be aware that you step on peoples feelings this way. We are really not interested in your satsangs and devotional ravings.
This site is free speech, but not free preach.
Sometimes you come up with interesting topics but this way you offend most of us and makes us want you to get off this site.
If you continue this I will request the FA to put a block on you.
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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 12:26:42 (GMT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: Michele Deradune
Subject: You're wrong, Michele
Message:
Michele Deradune: neither Shri Maharaji nor Maharaji have EVER said that they were the 'only one'

Rawat(posing as Maharaji): 'Who is Guru? The highest manifestation of God is Guru. So when Guru is here, God is here, to whom will you give your devotion? Guru Maharaj Ji knows all. Guru Maharaji is Brahma( Creator ). Guru Maharaj Ji is Vishnu ( Operator ). Guru Maharaji is Shiva ( Destroyer of illusion and ego ). And above all, Guru Maharaji is the Supremest Lord in person before us. I have come so powerful. I have come for the world. Whenever the great come , the worldly oppose them. Again I have come and you are not listening. Every ear should hear that the saviour of humanity has come. There should be no chance for anyone to say that they haven't heard of Guru Maharaji. Those who have come to me are already saved. Now it's your duty to save others. Shout it on the streets. Why be shy? When human beings forget the religion of humanity, the Supreme Lord incarnates. He takes a body and comes on this earth...'

So Michele, since when has there been more than one

Supreme Lord ?

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 12:23:20 (GMT)
From: Tim G
Email: None
To: Michele Deradune
Subject: Ted Patrick, Jesus Christ and Yogananda
Message:
Holy God Michele, you really have let the cat out of the bag.
I have been looking at a few , supposedly, Masters/Mistresses of our time and you would be Amazed at the similarities of their claims/techniques/ behaviour and ESPECIALLY the experiences and faith of their followers.I would reccomend a trip to www.sahajayoga.org/ShriMataji/ just as an example. That's not the Mataji we knew BTW.
You sound like a sincere and lovely person as so many premies and exes are.

As a Poster here I assure you I am NOT an hysterical de-programmer but someone who loves the Truth as far as can be ascertained. That means being really honest and looking fearlessly at ACTUALLY what is going on in ones life inside and out. i.e WHAT IS.
In my experience I can experience my heart 100% without the interference of an intermediary. Very wonderful it is too and dare I say it is God given and not the invention of man..free and common to all. There really is no need for these projections that take us, often very pleasantly , from the actual fact of
our life where the real action happens.

You don't at the moment seem to comprehend the possibility that what you feel for your Golden One is self projected and a wish fulfilment routine. I promise you I have been there and now see that it was only a rather deceptive step.

Nobody but you can say what your path is and how it will unfold and certainly none of us. We can only share our, very differing, stories. But don't close your eyes and ears and especially your discrimination. Your mind is there for a purpose too.

Love and Light
Tim

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 18:46:27 (GMT)
From: Mercedes
Email: None
To: Tim G
Subject: Ted Patrick, Jesus Christ and Yogananda
Message:
Tim you wrote:
As a Poster here I assure you I am NOT an hysterical de-programmer but someone who loves the Truth as far as can be ascertained. That means being really honest and looking fearlessly at ACTUALLY what is going on in ones life inside and out. i.e WHAT IS.
It is hard for some people to be 100% honest with themselves I can say from my own experience it takes guts and kindness because we are looking at ourselves.
And you added:
You don't at the moment seem to comprehend the possibility that what you feel for your Golden One is self projected and a wish fulfilment routine. I promise you I have been there and now see that it was only a rather deceptive step.
That is exactly the way I see it now. I saw M as a projection of my needs and wishes, not for who he really was and is. He is just a f*@$ up human being who needs help.
I do hope that more people are able to open their eyes, and as I say it takes guts.
Good reading your posts.
Good luck Michele

Mercedes (wondereing if the italics worked)

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 18:52:40 (GMT)
From: Mercedes
Email: None
To: anyone
Subject: okay forgot to turn off the italics N/T
Message:
forgot
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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 12:15:42 (GMT)
From: Katie H
Email: None
To: Michele Deradune
Subject: Ted Patrick, Jesus Christ and Yogananda
Message:
Hi Michelle -
I really don't want to comment on your theories about the Anti-Christ and masters, but I did want to say one thing. Everyone here is NOT screaming at you, and I wish you wouldn't make generalizations like that. Furthermore, to accuse Michael Donner and Michael Dettmers of 'teaching' that kind of behavior is way off base. Neither of them 'scream' on the forum - nor do they try and deprogram people. I wish you would read some of the posts here before you characterize people in such a negative way.

I have posted to you twice before now - I understand that you cannot or will not answer, and I won't post again - but I have been civil and polite to you. Please don't make generalizations about me.

Take care,
Katie

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 12:12:22 (GMT)
From: Bryn
Email: None
To: Michele Deradune
Subject: So it was Jesus all along. I thought as much.NT
Message:
gh
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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 12:11:03 (GMT)
From: Mel Bourne
Email: None
To: Michele Deradune
Subject: Ted Patrick, Jesus Christ and Yogananda
Message:
Hi Michele

Is this for real? What's happening to premies?

Mel

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 14:10:01 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: FA
Subject: Michele and the FA: Urgent !!!
Message:
FA: Michele's access her is causing her severe emotional distress. This is getting scary. You have to do something.

Michele dear, please call your family physician and tell him what's going on. Better yet, print out your post and show it to him, and then follow his directions carefully. I think you would be wise to give the forum a break for a while. You need to take care of yourself.

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 15:26:33 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Agree with Gerry
Message:
Michele, your post is way out there. I can't help but echo the concerns of others here that you are using the forum as a way to try to connect with Maharaji. If you have a therapist, it would be a good idea to take your posts to him or her, and also take the expremie posts that so irritate you, and explain your feelings about both. Your posts increasingly sound like a call for help. Please do something to take care of yourself. Being here will only make you feel more angry.

Your view of Elan Vital and your belief that Maharaji has nothing to do with running it is completely at odds with the truth.

Please go and seek professional help for the great distress you are so obviously feeling.

And FA, I agree with Gerry. Also, this post is just offensive satsang. How much more do we have to put up with?

Marianne

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Date: Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 00:38:04 (GMT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Agree with Gerry (nt)
Message:
zzzzz
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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 15:34:30 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Agree with Marianne and gerry--thanks n/t
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 18:51:23 (GMT)
From: Mercedes
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Agree with Marianne, Gerry and Cynthia N/T
Message:
Agree
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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 15:42:20 (GMT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Agree with some don't agree with the others
Message:
but I do agree that Michele is totally confused, should have a break, see her doctor,go to Hawii and have a Pina Calada.
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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 18:36:03 (GMT)
From: such
Email: None
To: salam
Subject: Agree with Salam et al [really bongo spam] (nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 16:11:42 (GMT)
From: Tim G
Email: None
To: salam
Subject: That'll be Pina Coladas all round . nt
Message:
Garcon!
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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 12:09:07 (GMT)
From: john
Email: None
To: Michele Deradune
Subject: Ted Patrick, Jesus Christ and Yogananda
Message:
you poor naive deadshit
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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 17:52:02 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: pdconlon@yahoo.com
To: all
Subject: GET USED TO THESE KINDS OF PWK POSTS
Message:
I get emails all day long just like Michele's. The current PWKs are drowning in their own illogicality, clutching at every spiritual straw that floats by in an attempt to justify and rationalize their growing insanity and existential angst.

Every single PWK that I know is now facing the fact that they are in a cult and they are blaming Elan Vital for creating that cult. They hate and detest EV but their love for Rev Pimple Rawat is very real to them and they are slowly spinning into a mental black hole.

Get ready, guys, for more of this. The saner ones will probably not post here but those who have been commanded by the Holy Spirit and hear voices of ascended masters will. Oh boy!

Also I must apologize to you guys for insulting Michele because it was my insult which made her decide to continue posting.

Michele, you can email me if you want. I have got boiler-plate answers to your confused rants which I cut and paste to the premies with whom I correspond.

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 19:18:56 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: You're Right, Pat, Get Ready for the Deluge!::)n/t
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 19:36:42 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Apres moi, le deluge: Ascended masters, UFOs
Message:
The are two kinds of PWKS currently: those who tell the lies and those who swallow the lies. The former are the ones who are truly nasty. Their insanity is because they have twisted their consciences beyond redemption and are evil.

The poor run of the mill PWKs who are trying harder everyday to swallow the revisionist BS are now going loopy. I don't know how much patience I will have or for how much longer.

Michele is not an evil or even mischievous person, just deluded. I don't think being an aspiring actress and living in THAT phoney world of make-believe helps either.

Time to dust off the old compassion machine and lubricate it, I guess.

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 21:14:33 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Apres moi, le deluge: Ascended masters, UFOs
Message:
Hi Pat,

It's difficult to deal with premies who are deluded because I was once in that position and no one could have told me I was in a cult when I was a true believer.

I guess it's because I despise lies so much that I had to finally see Rev. Do-Bad for what he is. Not only because of EV but because I know from past experience that EV is nothing more than an instrument of the urug.

I can't go into someone else's head and try to fix it...there's emotional stuff that happens in there, too. I think it's sad that Michele is so desparate for m's attention that she posts here because it is the only place where she will be accepted to post her love for him, at least for a while:)), and hopes somehow she'll get through the EV monitors to him so he'll pay her some attention. Quite pathetic, IMO.

That's why I tried to explain to her that the fatcat doesn't care about the premies; he cares only for himself. It doesn't appear to be sinking in, but we can try....it is better to try to be kind though--as long as my patience lasts!

Gawd, how did I ever get involved with him?

Hope you are well and busy!
Love,
Cynthia

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 10:52:31 (GMT)
From: Kirk
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: MP3s of old satsang
Message:
Hi,

I came across what is probably my last remaining piece of DLM tat in the bottom of a drawer the other day. It was a cassette tape of M speaking in Dortmund Germany around 1979. Actually, as it happens, I had recorded over most of it with recitals of Ivor Cutler which is far more interesting and entertaining btw. When I was transferring the old Ivor Cutler pieces to CD I discovered the remains of M's sermon on the last part of the tape. I was astonished at the bullshit that I new I had once travelled to Germany to listen to. So anyway the tape is quite old will probably fall apart soon so I decided to transfer the satsang into MP3 format so that it can be saved for posterity. Would anyone reading this page be interested in listening to old blatherings of M and refreshing their memory as to what a load of old cack he spouted? The first piece is M's definition of a cult. It's about 5MB in size so a broadband connection would be good to have for quick download.

Would it be legal? You know how M is about copyright etc.

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 22:17:40 (GMT)
From: Moldy Warp
Email: moldy_warp@hotmail.com
To: Kirk
Subject: It would be fun to juxtapose Rawat with Ivor
Message:
Cutler... have to think about it but will get back to you...
'woollen eyes' springs to mind...
'I met a man with a woollen third eye' etc

BTW wasn't Dortmund 1978??(But who f**king cares really... it weas all a blur of darshan bliss and very large tents in rows in which the less well off had to kip).
Just read this after posting my 'poisonous rantings' thread above - he mentions that he's about to inflict himself on Dortmund on that tape.
I can't face listening to more than a few minutes at a time of the Geneva tape I referred to... but it would be good to have this stuff on the net so the poisoner can't deny it.

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 22:03:50 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Kirk
Subject: would be fun -- anyone from SHIP able to answer?
Message:
Don't know the copyright answer, but here are some considerations.

*It is only an excerpt, which may be covered under fair use, not sure.
*It may have been taped at a time premies were not forbidden to tape, so you had carte blanche (and again, it's only an excerpt).
*If SHIP or whomever did not produce a tape for sale, then it's just a taped lecture, and you may be safe there.
*If the original tape of the same address you have did not contain a copyright symbol, and the date is before March 1, 1989, then pursuant to the Berne Convention, it's in the public domain. I believe that everything produced before that drop dead date that did not contain a copyright symbol is not considered protected under the international copyright laws.
*there may be some overlay of German IP laws.

I'd like it. If you put it up on a free website, all they can do is tell you or the ISP to take it down, via a cease and desist letter or a threatening phone call to your ISP. If you have reason to believe that it's not copyrighted, I think you'd be safe, especially if you took it down when asked.

Maybe some former SHIP or EV productions person can tell you when they began copyrighting, and what the rules were re premies making homemade tapes.

Hope this helps.

--f

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 15:44:30 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Kirk
Subject: MP3s of old satsang
Message:
Check for copy rights. Most likely it has expired. Plus who gives a fuck. Do it.
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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 04:08:58 (GMT)
From: Bob
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: still no posts on Pia's side
Message:
Guess everything eligible needs first to be presented to Higher Authorities.
The more I read about this new site the more hilarious I think it is.
She might be a nice woman, but she does put herself in the line of fire. I guess she is in it way over her head now.
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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 11:23:57 (GMT)
From: Brian
Email: brian@ex-premie.org
To: Bob
Subject: it-wont-last.org
Message:
That site is the only 'pro'-Maharaji site that is linked to from sanctioned sites, and has as its sole purpose referring people indirectly to this site.

While they fail to sport an actual link to the offending content on EPO, they not only drone on about it but they've also named their site 'it-aint-so.org' - causing people to wonder where to find the un-named online 'IT'. Web-searches will lead the newly-curious to EPO.

It's only a matter of time before Pia disappears without explanation. I give it 6 months at the max, only because EV/Rawat have demonstrated a complete inability to quickly grasp the obvious in life.

It's a blunder. Like fingering Jim Heller while omitting the former DLM Intergalactic President-for-life Bill Burke :)

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 10:11:43 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Bob
Subject: i've been thinking about this
Message:
I think Pia is going to have quite a series of realizations from doing this. I dont know what will come of it, but I have a feeling she's in for some unanticipated revelations and not at all the results she thinks she's going to get.
I think we should keep posting to her, regardless. she and her site partners have to read our submissions in order to evaluate them, and from what i understand on the ssubject, the subconscious hears and stores everything, whether the conscious mind accepts it or not. it goes in, even if she ends up rejecting the posts for publication, her memory retains them as experienced nonetheless.
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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 23:15:29 (GMT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Bingo!!!!Bingo!!!!!Bingo!!!!!!!!!!!!Bingooooooo
Message:
Dammit Janet! You're right. That's why I articulate when I send my posts. You can't let the Shit mix up the Truth or people get CON..FUseD......This is why it's a good idea for the Premies to be here. They are able to Smuggle the information verbally, something The BigHead is underestimating, big time. What they hear Consciously will be filed and shelved and some stuff will go into boxes saying 'DO NOT OPEN' but...and I speak from experience here, the truth will perculate UP in due time.

The premies are starting to realize the stuff we said would happen IS HAPPENING, you know WHY? Cuz the stuff we said DID happen is the Truth. And there!

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 14:21:32 (GMT)
From: Scot J
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: OH yeah. You are dead right.
Message:
The information - free speech suppression in the world of M is like a massive log jam on a big, big river. Any kind of free discussion whatsoever is like the flow of that river - it gets a chance to start some momentum, that jam is GONE. That river deserves to flow, and I hope it makes it. That'll be the great day in the mornin! And if M comes out of it like a rock in the currents or gets swept out of sight, either way, it would be better. It would be EX cellent!
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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 09:26:15 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Bob
Subject: More hate and lies.
Message:
Hi Bob,

You're right. She's in way over head. If she starts talking to us, she'll be exposed for the cult-head she is. They can't come out into the open with such a massive blind spot.

She also doesn't realise what a hornet's nest she's going to stir up by openly, and quite falsely, attacking people like Michael Dettmers and Michael Donner. Poor old Donner's only ever stuck a handful of posts on the forum, and suddenly he's a 'leader'. She's really left herself open to criticism and attack by not checking her facts before she started mouthing off. She should have called me up and asked me.

I don't think she'll put any of our posts up on her site. Enjoyingsnot.org said they were going to have a forum when they started. It never appeared. There is no room in the cult for open discussion and debate. Everyone is there to respond to the whims of the Captain, not to discuss things.

And anyway Bob, we're all hate-filled liars remember?

Anth, gotta go and find something pure to hate, seeyalater.

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 23:26:24 (GMT)
From: donner
Email: mdonner@netidea
To: AJW
Subject: More hate and lies.
Message:
hi anth...just got back from russia...can you or jim or someone fill me on this shit off line is probably best, thanks in advance
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Date: Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 09:14:37 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: donner
Subject: Welcome back leader.
Message:
Hi Mike,

If I'd known you were going to Russia I'd have given you some numbers. Dot and I became big mates with a Russian Rock band a few years who stayed with us when they did a gig in London.

Anyway, you'll be pleased to know, in your absence, you've been promoted to one of the leaders of EPO. Yes, I know you've only put up a handful of posts in the past couple of months, and that was mainly to correct innaccuracies that had been written about you here, but that doesn't matter, your talents have been recognised and you've been appointed one of our leaders.

I don't know if you know Pia. She married Ole Grunbaum a few years ago. Dot and I know her very well. She's sadly suffering from terminal cancer.

I think she's trying to prove something, but I don't know what. It's a bit sad to see her presenting herself in this way, because she's actually an intelligent woman. I said this down below somewhere, but seeing intelligent people act like idiots when discussing the Captain, was one of the things that woke me up to what was happening in the cult.

I wrote to Pia yesterday and told her she'd made a big mistake citing you, Mike Dettmers and Jim, as 'leaders' of EPO.

Hope all is well with you and yours.

Anth, pissed of because I didn't get a mention on her site too.

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Date: Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 09:58:07 (GMT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: You were mentioned Anth...
Message:
Along with the rest of us as ' A SMALL GROUP OF FORMER STUDENTS led by several who had major responsibilities in the organsation '

For instance, Jim used to wash the dishes in an ashram.

Cheers

Dermot

PS Have you noticed how the world is run by ' small groups ' or ' small but growing groups' here, there and everywhere.

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Date: Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 16:30:44 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: That's not enough Dermot.
Message:
I want my name there.

Anth the total egomaniac, any publicity is good publicity, please, no pictures...get outta my way asshole...barf...clunk.

Ex-premie Vomits on Photographer Shock Horror.

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Date: Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 20:00:36 (GMT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: LOL :) (nt)
Message:
zz
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Date: Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 00:08:38 (GMT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: donner
Subject: Donner, here's the website
Message:
Briefly, someone named Pia Gruenbaum has put up a website to rebuff this website. On that site you, Dettmers, Jean-Michel and Jim are mentioned as the organizers of the hate-filled ex-premie.org. I think you'll quickly understand why Pia's site (apparently created via EV Canada) has stimulated such animated discussion here. Here's the link:

it-aint-so.org

Welcome back from Russia.

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 03:19:48 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: The voice of independence?
Message:
From www.it-aint-so.org:
------------------------

Who are we?

We are a small group of people
whose lives have been touched by Maharaji...

From www.appreciation.org:
--------------------------

About us

We are a small but growing group of people
who have great respect for Maharaji...

-----

Besides that, there is a similar look and feel
(from a design standpoint) between the various
puppet sites as well as similar wording.

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 11:01:33 (GMT)
From: WMary
Email: None
To: all
Subject: They got one thing right...
Message:
They are 'a small group of people'
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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 16:09:45 (GMT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: WMary
Subject: 'small group of people'
Message:
Yeah that phrase is now used on TWO premie sites. Interesting isn't it ?

I think it's code for ' We are part of a larger group of mindless followers who are forbidden to discuss openly ...and what we are doing is really daring isn't it?...we love our master SOOO MUCH we just have to speak out .....just hope daddy doesn't get too pissed off with our rebellious behaviour....otherwise we're outa here. '

Cheers

Dermot

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 20:29:40 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: 'small but growing group of people'
Message:
Hi Dermot,

It says, 'small but growing'.

This must mean they are putting on weight, cos they sure ain't growing in numbers.

Anth the diet-statistician

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 05:00:05 (GMT)
From: Daneane
Email: None
To: G
Subject: The voice of independence?
Message:
How it it be anything but similar, they all eat the same tripe. Anyone who truly has any independent thought on anything relating to M, posts here.
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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 03:18:21 (GMT)
From: bazza
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Was this guy at Latvian night or what???
Message:
From ELK:

Before I was...

before i was...
now I AM...
but i am not..
NOW WE ARE..
are we not?

Bruce Allen Archer
San Francisco, CA, USA

Was he the one in the corner knocking back the Absinthe perhaps?

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 15:50:28 (GMT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: bazza
Subject: 'Can you say schizophrenic?' - Mr. Rogers
Message:
It's a big word boys and girls and here's what it means: a mental disorder characterized by separation between thought and emotions, by delusions, bizarre behavior, etc. - Websters New World Dictionary

This poem exemplifies the split between what one knows and what one wants to believe. A very succinct explanation of life with knowledge.

I was
I am

(so far so good - healthy, self-actualized statements)
I am not
(oopsie daisy - questioning his very own existence - not healthy)
Now we are
(him and his imaginary friend - 'we' relaces 'I')
Are we not?
(the split is now complete = schizophrenia - or call it 'understanding' if it makes you feel better)

This person, in 5 lines, has gone from healthy to schizophrenic. The last line 'Are we not?' completely represents the confusion (longing) that premies feel being unable to connect with their lord - special friend - master - beloved. It's never going to happen except via credit card donatations and satellite darshan.

Tune in Mr Rogers' Neighborhood again for tomorrow's show when we will learn a new small but important word: 'cult'.

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 19:00:24 (GMT)
From: Mercedes
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: 'Can you say schizophrenic?' - Mr. Rogers
Message:
Richard you are brilliant.
LOL !!!!
Mercedes (awaiting the definition of cult)
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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 14:36:10 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Another Gemstone
Message:
From www.enjoyinglife.org, for those that don't know, the flagship of the fruits of maharaji's 30 years in the west. From the 'Wit & Wisdom' section (is this more wit or wisdom?):

'Man is presently caught in a plane of consciousness which is nourished by the workings of his rational mind. That is, the plane of polarities..of good and evil... left and right... old and young... us and them... man and woman..
To be 'not caught' means to be unattached. To be unattached does not mean to be uninvolved, it means to be involved 'without attachment'.'

From 'Be here now'

Actually, I just saw that this is a quote from Ram Das. I guess when you run out of original drivel, you can always quote someone else's.

Steve

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 11:25:28 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: bazza
Subject: Was this guy at Latvian night or what???
Message:
Doesn't it remind you of Hal fading away in '2001 A Space Odyssey'?

Steve

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 19:12:32 (GMT)
From: Bazza
Email: None
To: Steve Quint
Subject: Hal?
Message:
Was my mate Steve Mulley in that movie? Huh!
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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 23:35:54 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Bazza
Subject: Hal, As In Highway To Hal
Message:
Love AC/DC.

All The Best

Steve

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 16:09:28 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Everyone
Subject: O.K. - Here's The Sound Clips
Message:
Go to 'Daisy, daisy' for the one I had in mind. The rest are great too.

Steve

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 09:57:13 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: bazza
Subject: LOL :) (nt)
Message:
Very funny bazza.
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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 03:19:49 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: bazza
Subject: Was this guy at Latvian night or what???
Message:
That's a definite no. Give me a ring now if you want, bazza.

Marianne

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 00:04:01 (GMT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Michelle Deradune
Subject: Michelle PROMISES to Never READ my posts
Message:
I'm sorry MiMi, it's not easy having your bull shit shoved back in your face before it's even out of your mouth, is it?

'Michelle gives EV Heck' pornalized would look like
'Michelle gives EV *HEAD*'...hee hee, tooo funnnnny

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Date: Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 06:21:35 (GMT)
From: such
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: like,[s]he promised to leave,too. Waco, maybe?
Message:
[s]he be a poor divine wacko, tex.

courtesy of da macko dada of rugus, bjorn to confuse...

- while da rest of us was jest born Tehran.

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 00:35:21 (GMT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: Your lucky Deb I aint been so graced yet:) (nt)
Message:
zz
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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 21:48:04 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: I'll take her place:) (nt)
Message:
vxghjx
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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 22:08:24 (GMT)
From: susan c.
Email: None
To: silvia
Subject: K. C. in troy, michigan
Message:
Silvia, I am a very old friend of K.C.'s. He was my steady boyfriend in high school, we split when I was 19. We received 'knowledge' together. We have kept very loosely in touch through the years. I spoke to Dave M. yesterday. So you'll know I'm genuine, you're a close friend of K's, so I'm sure he told you about his old girlfriend with whom he used to have strange metaphysical experiences which happened to us together, stuff we couldn't explain. I am concerned about what I've read here. I know, he never used to eat ANYTHING but popcorn. Please fill me in on what's up- How sick is he? WHat's happening? Anything diagnosed? Scary! You 'hit the nail on the head' , in general,If people are so enlightened and have peace,what's this behavior all about? Even gmj used to say the body is a temple, and this life a gift from God, so doesn't it make sense that 'the Lord' doesn't want one to destroy it? That's 'disobeying orders'. (sarcasm there) I know how bull headed he is, he's a Taurus, and a stubborn one.Please emAIL ME AT : suscole@swbell.net a concerned friend of K.C.'s
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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 01:25:05 (GMT)
From: Silvia
Email: None
To: susan c.
Subject: Yeap, I got your address NT
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 02:51:34 (GMT)
From: Sandy
Email: None
To: Silvia
Subject: Silvia
Message:
Hi Silvia,

I sense that you don't want me to communicate with Kray directly, perhaps you think I might say something out of line. I noticed some other folks got his information, or that you would e-mail them...

So look, I won't try to get in touch directly, no offense taken. But would you please let him know or ask someone else to tell him that Sanford Pass from Coral Gables and Miami Beach back in the late 70's and early 80's sends his love and prayers for him to get better. It couldn't hurt. Thanks.

Sandy

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 21:07:31 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: rawat's *wit and wisdom* Over my head fer sure...
Message:
'What could I be? The variables are endless. But when I am content now, I can be content in the next moment. If I am not content now, it's hard to be content in the next moment. That, my friend, is fulfillment.'

Anyone know what this inane tripe is supposed to mean? I mean, anyone have ANY idea? CD, Sandy, Mel?

Oh lord, I'm drowning in the the maya.

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 01:24:54 (GMT)
From: mr.bojangles
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Drownin' in the Mayo.
Message:
Rawat's ability to say the obvious and make inane statements that enables him to rip off all the gullible , searching for truth victims.In this pathetic piece of trite tripe, he is pulling the wool, with a declaration that he is in the driving seat when it comes to fullfillment, and his realisation of the knowledge has made him so fucking fat arsed that he can sit on that shite chairy of his and shit his little pants and make a load of fast bucks, by letting a lot of people into his deep and meaningfull realisation that he alone is the lid on the jar. He is the man, and he is so content he doesn't need anything from anybody. He is so content, that money is a mere trinket to play his divine arse licking lila with, and suckers lap that kind of shit up. I know intelligent so called rational people who are swallowing that shit whole, he is drowning in Mayo and heavy on the Miracles.Bo
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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 06:18:13 (GMT)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: mr.bojangles
Subject: like pasting fake Eggless Mayo labels on a jar (nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 19:22:50 (GMT)
From: mr.bojangles
Email: None
To: suchabanana
Subject: Legless in Mayo.
Message:
The empty and vacuous rhetoric that gets swallowed whole by dumbass premilatas is the key to defineing the average seeker of that particular act, the key is they will believe shit, but doubt truth. They swallow as they have always swallowed and wallow in the shit they always wallowed in, shit heard is easier to swallow than shit done,and from a liar, the truth that is being seen as truth is not truth or satsang , or shatsang when it comes from the mouth of a serpent. Repetative brainwashing techniques are used to conjure a state of suspended disbelief, and the brainerds are thus unable to differentiate real muck from brass, chalk from cheese or ersatz kitch from real art, get my drift.Bo
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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 22:01:50 (GMT)
From: such
Email: None
To: mr.bojangles
Subject: no wonder premies got the runs from the cult mayo
Message:
er, the drags [left many of 'em legless]

(You can stand on your own 2 feet, lurking forum premies! Throw away the rugu crutches [sic clutches].)

The Mexican exes could always celebrate: 'sinko de mayo'

Peace and lentils,

PS the eggless mayo jar line is a play on a shatsang reference of the Lard at Amherst, at rugu poopa, circa 1974 - speaking of fakers, fakirs, fukirs...

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Date: Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 00:15:54 (GMT)
From: mr.bojangles
Email: None
To: such
Subject: Mayo Cult has Premies running for more.
Message:
The cult of mayo is spreadind like lard on toasted shite, before the mayo cult got started the shite collectors ran amok spreading Mayo everywhere they went, telling their best pals that this is the real shite and if you don't swallow it whole, you'll spend the duration of eternity up to your neck in real shite, not the Hell Mans variety, go for it suckers the Milky Bars are on me.Bo
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Date: Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 06:11:37 (GMT)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: mr.bojangles
Subject: ya ya, hahahahahahahahahha!!!!!!!!!!!!! P+L,
Message:
'The cult of mayo is spreadind like lard on toasted shite'

like shiite where the sunni don't shine, for it might give one bad Rumi-tism.

yaya, like I recall some of those same people telling their best pals that this is the real shiite. uh, gee, now who could dose poor suckers be? [ssssshhhhhhh...I'll never tell -- hehehehehehehe]

oy - much caca doodoo about nothin' - a divine lila by Willy Shakesbeerji

breathe in breathe out breathe in breathe out breathe in breathe out [whatever ya do, don't take off da headphones]...............................................told ya,

still -- after all - Such appreciation for life ---- but not the rugucaca.

Peace and lentils,

da lil' swami

P.S. wee r tho thilly

PPS speaking of the Lard of the Milky Way, premies bought mega chocolate bars for miragey aka dlm aka evi aka Lard aka poifect master aka da 'ratrugu'-- but he ate all the BUTTer - and gave the prems the Finger.


[PMS for non-choco bunnies
'Butterfinger' is a popular candy bar.]

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 22:37:39 (GMT)
From: CD
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: have
Message:
>I mean, anyone have ANY idea?

Be Here Now

Most numbers aren't rational. Life isn't. You aren't.
Ideas can only approximate. They are not the real thing.

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 05:38:38 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: CD
Subject: The spiritual placebo effect
Message:
So why do people listen to him spout his ideas -- almost endlessly, at programs and on vids. Cop out, CD.

Yes, he talks about the experience that can't be talked about, and tells us ..... NOTHING. But I do find it amusing.

--f

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 22:46:59 (GMT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: CD
Subject: So he can spout any ole tripe u mean CD ? (nt)
Message:
zz
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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 22:35:09 (GMT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Ratspin on 'Be Here Now' .. also shite (nt)
Message:
n
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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 22:37:32 (GMT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Bin Liner
Subject: nice turn of phrase...ratspin :)) (nt)
Message:
zz
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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 21:53:33 (GMT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Look Gerry, you're a hate filled Ex
Message:
How can you... a discontented, unfulfilled sub human possibly hope to understand the wisdom of a master?

The master is truly fulfilled from one moment to the next..he has no need or desire for anything or anyone. Houses, cars, planes, yachts, extra-marital affairs with gullible easy prey followers, irrational anger directed towards sychophantic followers, bank accounts in different corporate names all over the planet, selling trashy trinkets wherever he can get away it, selling photographs of himself by the thousand for over three decades, having to re-organise organisations endlessley because they are run by off message saboteurs, squabbling with his mother and brothers (in court) for the family silver, exhorting his lovers to work beyond the cause of health and duty to further enrich him ....his selfless devotion to truth is ENDLESS.

Of course your HATE prevents you from seeing the obvious.

Go back and ask his forgiveness. It's not too late. You still have that Divine breath.Don't waste it criticising the TRUE MASTER.

Cheers

Dermot

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 05:40:37 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: You're starting to sound like Lorna Doone
Message:
Or was that Deradune?

Cheers to you -- LOLs

love, f

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 20:31:33 (GMT)
From: JoAnn
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Latvian Night
Message:
What a thoroughly enjoyable evening. Yes, ex-premies are full of love and delight. It was really great to see everyone. When I left the ashram, I used to go to 'programs' just to see people and walk away sad -- wondering what and who I was connected to. I left last night wishing this was a 3 day 'event.' Joe, you are simply the best community coordinator ever. Thank you Marianne for putting this together and inviting us to your lovely home. Billy and Mark, may I preside and give blessings on your 50th anniversary (You are the most delightful people.) Selene and EB, I didn't even get to talk to you. Your posts -- all of you who take the time and dare to look at THAT REALITY and speak THE TRUTH for those who either have no voice or whose voices have been taken truly do a service. Franny & Mark -- I just love you. What freedom, no one determines my reality. Yeah, for leaving room for doubt. Thank you one and all for coming out and not being anonymous. I missed the entire conversation on 3-way marriage -- want to know more about this when we vist your restaurant.

Love,
JoAnn

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Date: Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 00:24:14 (GMT)
From: Deborh
Email: None
To: JoAnn
Subject: Latvian Night--Wish I was there
Message:
Oh you guys had a good time...I believe it. I used to throw some wicked parties myself and I still treasure those memories and other good times. Two years ago, when I peeked into the site to see what was going on, I dropped a message. Mark replied via my email, and told me how people we knew were doing and thanked me for one particular boat party I helped organize and host. Hi Billy--It's nice to hear that you and Mark are still a Hot Couple (20 yrs.) and that your love survived the Concept-Bomber impresses me tremendously.

Party on dudes!

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 21:42:42 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: JoAnn
Subject: Hey JoAnn
Message:
So great to see you Saturday night. Yes, it really was a fun evening. I guess there were about 25 people there including a couple of spouses who were never premies. I agree with Chuck, the reason I got into the Maharaji cult was the premies. So many great people, who are even better once they toss-out the charlatan Guru.

Hey, sorry we lost you in the middle of San Francisco. Hope you made it to the Marina okay. And I really hope you chime in on this Forum whenever you feel like it. You have a lot to contribute.

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 13:52:37 (GMT)
From: Wildflower
Email: None
To: JoAnn
Subject: Latvian Night
Message:
I loved connecting with you again. Keep on posting, and good luck finding an algebra class.
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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 01:22:52 (GMT)
From: Joy
Email: None
To: JoAnn
Subject: Latvian Night
Message:
Hi JoAnn. Glad you guys all had such a fun time last night. Long live Latvian nights!

I was thinking about what you said:

I left last night wishing this was a 3 day 'event.'

That made me laugh, but then I started thinking about it, and for me, and probably lots of others, part of what we're doing here on EPO is about community, and re-establishing a little of what we left behind when we left the Big M. We really lost a lot, on a lot of levels, especially those of us who were in the ashrams or doing full time service. I think it can be so hard for people to make the break when ALL or most of the people you know and are friends with are premies--how do you have any support to break out? And what do you fill that loss with, when other friendships don't quite measure up to the depth of the premie ones?

Sometimes I think that's why the Forum is so addictive, here in the isolating high-tech 21st century, we've created in a new way a bit of what was once so prominent in our lives, that supportive, warm and fun community. For me this was a much more real and fulfilling experience than any supposed relationship I had with the guru, even though we weren't focusing on that as our primary goal and thought he was the focus. I'm grateful (yes, grateful!) that it happened in spite of him, for those are the long-lasting and important memories I will take away from the whole experience, not the devotional nonsense. The friendships and people I've known and still know because of my involvement with M will stay with me throughout my life.

So party on Latvians, and who knows, it may just become a three-day event in future!

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 02:03:31 (GMT)
From: Disculta
Email: None
To: Joy
Subject: Latvian Night
Message:
Hey Joy and JoAnn!

Didn't want to mention your name below, JoAnn, because I thought you were very anon - and I missed a few other wonderful people as well - sorry!

It was great meeting you. Maybe you and Joy and I can do a 3-way sometime. E-MAIL! Not marriage! I'm still amazed at how at first I couldn't figure out who you and a few others were, and then as time went on, it all started coming back. Same with Monmot and Mark. And I just got an e-mail from someone who wasn't there but has met me via this site, and I couldn't think who on earth he was. Then, a few hours later, he popped back in. I'm having recovered cult memories and they're all good!

JoAnn, e-mail me (darlingwave@aol.com) any time you want to chat.

love Katie Darling

love Katie Darling

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 02:43:42 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: MarianneDB@aol.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Latvian Night
Message:
I agree with everything everyone has said about last night. It was a great evening. We have shared so much with each other here on the forum about the events in our lives that brought us to the cult, the good, bad and ugly of our time in it, the experiences and information that allowed us to free ourselves, and the lives we have struggled and succeeded in building in the aftermath. We've supported and encouraged each other publicly, in emails, and on the phone. Meeting each other in person has always been a joyful revelation to me. Trusting each other enough to make the leap into sharing time together, and finding out that your trust is rewarded, is a way of healing the ways in which the cult abused our trust.

I notice at each of these ex-premie evenings that we are all so different from each other. No need to behave in a certain way in order to claw our way up the premie-devotion ladder in order to get the opportunity to be abused by the Lord in person. No need to be anyone but who we are today, in our imperfect lives. What a weight off all of our shoulders!

No more drama around any future get togethers! It's simple and fun, and no one is required to attend.

Thanks to everyone who helped out, and brought food or drinks, etc. Rafael enjoyed himself thoroughly but he's getting to be an old hand at this Latvian Night stuff. It was an honor to me to share my home with each and every one of you. And no EV monitors, my house is NOT the international headquarters of EPO! Every once in a blue moon, someone takes a swipe at me on the forum about being a lawyer. Having all of you in my house allowed you to see how much my work and my clients mean to me. It was one way I could thank all of you for having extended your hands and hearts in friendship to me.

Lastly, I wish all of the premies who post here and call us hate-filled could have seen us last night. What a shock it would have been to them!

Much love, Marianne

P.S. So Chuck and Andy were talking about the three way marriage last night? Were they the only three way with us last night?

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 05:24:00 (GMT)
From: Chuck Sprague
Email: bctanda@hotmail.com
To: Marianne
Subject: Latvian Night - no devotional ladder, indeed!
Message:
The thing I really noticed last night was something I have not felt for a long time.

When we got involved with the premie committee meetings last year, I wondered if I was going to feel that thing I felt that drew me to the premies, K and M in the first place. After many months of participation, I did not feel it. Not that the premies were monsterous, but everything was so controlled and stifled. If you suggested live music at an event, a church lady would give you a list of approved music recordings. If you persisted, you would calmly be given a list of all the reasons why that could not happen. This would be done ever so reasonably and politely. End of discussion.

Premies like Michelle seem to believe that Elan Vital is the problem behind all this. But I saw that these church ladies were attending, and even paying for, all sorts of trainings they were going to where they were taught all this stuff.

I saw the Atlanta seminar training video that Maharaji did himself, where he told people that the most dangerous time for anyone to talk about knowledge, was when they were feeling full of inspiration. That was when the drip became a damnburst for me. It was CULT in capital letters, and was also cold, sterile and dead.

Maharaji is training these people, and training other people to train people. He runs the show, dissent is not tolerated. The rot starts at the top.

That feeling I could not find last year, I found again last night. It was a feeling of love, in a community sense. I came to K and M through the hippy community, and they were friends to each other, not perfect, but there was not just love for the guru, but love for each other too. There were huge gatherings that would come to satsang. Many of these premies would say ''I'm only here for the good vibes, not the 'religion''. When live satsang stopped, and was replaced with videos, many people fell away very quickly. That is when many of us lost touch with each other.

It's made me think that satsang is not politically correct edited and controled videos, but perhaps is the fellowship of people striving to know the truth, ANY KIND of truth, not some dogma. People just striving to know what matters to them, and understand and be clear about it. And to enjoy EACH OTHER and be kind.

I think it was that fellowship that attracted me a lot in the first place, and was what I felt last night. Only it was even better than the old days, because there was no Belief System in the way. As you said Marianne, no devotional ladder in the way, and ''No need to be anyone but who we are today, in our imperfect lives. What a weight off all of our shoulders!''

Last year, I had asked myself, ''What happened to that love I used to feel?'' Now I know; WE were it. It came from us sharing it. Too bad for M. that he saw no value in it. Now he has sterile training seminars, boring videos, and gives K. to a handful of people via secret DVD, not even a human being. Then 90 percent of them drop out. Events may stop all together, and he will just beam his videos into peoples houses, so they won't have to talk to eachother, they can just love him, and send checks to ''support his work'' without question. NEVER question the purity of the Master.

I think you are right, Marianne, when you said:

''Lastly, I wish all of the premies who post here and call us hate-filled could have seen us last night. What a shock it would have been to them!'' Yes indeed!

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 20:38:50 (GMT)
From: Mercedes
Email: None
To: Chuck Sprague
Subject: Latvian Night - no devotional ladder, indeed!
Message:
Thank you Chuck for your clarity and wisdom. I agree it was and is in us. We are it. I hope I get to participate in another Latvian Event and meet so many of you I know by reading your thoughts.

Mercedes (realizing how cold and calculated M's effort is)

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 15:52:22 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Chuck Sprague
Subject: Great post, Chuck -- really nice (nt)
Message:
ffffff
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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 05:43:34 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Chuck Sprague
Subject: ***BEST OF FORUM**** Great post Chas!!! n/t
Message:
n/t
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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 06:03:35 (GMT)
From: Joy
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: Yes, Brilliant, Chuck!
Message:
I am so amazed that anybody even becomes interested in Knowledge or Maharaji anymore, what with the sterility in the way it's now presented. BORING.

I remember how loving and fun and open the vibe was back in 1972 when I received K. also. I loved the way people were dressed, hip and groovy, and they just seemed to be folks like me, somehow. I'll never forget the first satsang I heard, from someone whose name I didn't know, who would probably be considered a bongo today, but who was speaking from her personal experience, and it was really powerful.

What a control freak megalomaniac he is to stifle all that and tell everybody what to say and how to say it. Who can relate to church ladies in business suits? No wonder nobody sticks around. Maharaji should drop the corporate CEO image thing and retire back in India where he can play Lord of the Universe to his heart's content, which is what he really wants to do anyhow.

Very well put, Chuck!

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 07:51:45 (GMT)
From: Chuck Sprague
Email: bctanda@hotmail.com
To: Joy
Subject: I think you would have loved it, Joy...
Message:
It was kind of intense, having so many exes in one place, and seeing so many familiar faces from the past all at once. I didn't get to talk to everyone, time seemed to pass quickly.

Yes, I remember the vibe in the Haight really was loving, fun and open, even though it was 1982. A kind of flower-child time warp? We also had ''Bongo'' premies giving satsang in the Haight. The words were often nonsense, but they would speak from their experience and feel high and just glow, they didn't care about being PC. The Haight people often distrusted authority, and did their own thing. They enjoyed feeling free of the shackles of any authority, even M's.

I think there was a sense of that last night too, as we were just folks getting together socially. With NO Goober vibes or devotional ladders, it felt very free and enjoyable. The Goober was hardly even mentioned, as we had so much else to talk about. It was more enjoyable than I could have imagined, and even Andy enjoyed it. I didn't think he would, since he got Knowledge ultra-lite, and was never closer than a 100 yards to Goober. But he really enjoyed the PEOPLE last night. Nice folks, I bet you would have loved it too.

I doubt most of the new premies stick around after finding out what the techniques are. As thoroughly modern PWK's like Michelle know, the techiniques are quite incidental; it's all about GOOBER, and if you aren't all excited about that, there is little else to hold you. He could sell a lot of his videos as a cure for insomnia. They sure made me sleepy.

I even have to wonder how popular he is in India. I think those crowds would come see any bigshot guru, especially when there's free food and clean water.

Being a meglomania control freak has got him what he has today. It will be interesting to see if he can keep it. I wouldn't like to be in his shoes. I'd rather get high with a little help from my friends, and be able to sleep at night.

I liked what you said in the thread above:

''I'm grateful (yes, grateful!) that it happened in spite of him, for those are the long-lasting and important memories I will take away from the whole experience, not the devotional nonsense. The friendships and people I've known and still know because of my involvement with M will stay with me throughout my life.''

After meeting so many of the exes last night, I can really understand that. We were in some fine company. Poor Goober, does he know what he's missing?

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Date: Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 21:40:43 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Chuck Sprague
Subject: Latvian thoughts
Message:
Having experienced several ex-premie get-togethers on the east coast, I feel qualified to say, Maharaji can't be a part of what you experienced the other night. Because he has lost touch with his humanity if he ever had any! So he is the big loser. Imagine the dynamics he engages in with other people, he can never really be himself and people around him can never be themselves (especially when M is always putting them down/ridiculing them). He's a 'VIP' who really is VERY INEPT PERSON/HUMAN BEING.

ENJOY!

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 20:47:27 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: JoAnn
Subject: Love you JoAnn
Message:
And thanks for coming out -- on the forum and to the event. Let's stay in touch and keep this dialogue going on and off the forum. Many people (especially ashram premies or 'right in there' community premies) felt that they had lost a big chunk of their lives during those years of doing nothing else but SS&M. Some of us at least felt that we should have kept a few other balls in the air, or a few other eggs in the basket, to express it in cliche form.

Then we lost another big chunk of our lives by not staying in touch with people with whom we shared so much during those years -- many years for some of us. I don't know, either we felt that everyone else was still so into it we might get grossed out or (horror of horrors) come slinking back, or we weren't sure what we felt, and were off licking our wounds and trying to cultivate a view that did not include the guru.

However we have a shared experience, and present discussion can help unravel those little awful rooms of doubt we left in our minds -- FOR EVERYTHING BUT & K!!!! They are rooms with a view, and we need to let in the fresh air and light.

Love, Francesca (and Mark)

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 20:43:18 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: JoAnn
Subject: JoAnn, I was so thrilled when I saw you
Message:
I had no idea you were coming. And, as I said to you, you still look like the beautiful young lass I knew 20 years ago.

PS I missed the conversation about the three-way marriage too. I was quite shocked when Chuck and Andy told me that they had been regaling the party with it while I was busy plotting the downfall of Goober with Mark and Roger.

Yeah right, no one even mentioned the Goober all night. The people there were all much more facinating that Pimple Rawat ever could be.

Hopefully I will have some time today to write my gossip column account of the social event. I will have to skip wrting my story for the society column about the Black and White Ball which was also taking place in SF last night.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 20:46:45 (GMT)
From: Deep Tongue
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: To Pia: Last night 24 members of the secret cabal
Message:
seeking to dethrone Rev Pimple Rawat, aka Balyouguesswhat, gathered in a secret meeting place known as the Angkor Borei Restaurant on Mission Street in the Latino Barrio in San Francisco.

I am letting you have the agenda because I know that you are doing such good work. First item discussed was how we were going to invest the millions in our campaign fund since the dotcom IPOs are no longer an option. A vote was taken and it was unanimously decided to send the money to Rev Rawat because he is actually doing the job of discrediting himself better than we could.

Second item was what we were going to do about the threat that your brilliant site represents. In the end a majority of the votes (with much dissension) decided to take up a collection for you so that you can buy more pics of The Lord of The Universe because the ones that you have on your site are sooo unflattering. They need to have the coarseness of his features airbrushed out. Your pics make him look to much like a greasy, greedy, egotistical, pompous, smug businessman from India.

Anyway, I just wanted to let you know what those evil ex-premies are doing because it is obvious that you are sincere and need all the allies you can get.

just having fun - PatC

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 19:35:35 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: pdconlon@yahoo.com
To: Michele Deradune
Subject: My apologies to Michele Deradune
Message:
Dear Michele,

I offer my heartfelt apologies for offending you yesterday. My only excuse is that I was having such fun with the pornolizer that I got carried away. Everyone here knows that I suffer from chronic foot in mouth disease but that I always say sorry afterwards.

I started off by inviting you to join in the fun of playing with the pornolizer in a thread below yours which Jim had started. I thought it would be a refreshing break for you from proselytizing to us.

When you did not join in the fun I thought I would show you how hilarious it could be by running your sermon through the pornolizer.

Well, it must have seemed like a horrible insult to you taken out of the context of irreverence and jollity some of us were enjoying with the pornolizer.

I really did not mean to insult you and apologize from the bottom of my heart. I know that you are a sincere person if a trifle pious but I even relate to that because I have also been known to deliver unwanted sermons on FV.

Okay, so filth doesn't make you laugh. I am quite unapologetic about my smutty sense of humor and in fact have to really tone down my dirty mouth here most of the time. But what do you find funny?

My husband, Chuck did this little joke for us a few weeks ago. Here's the link to it. I hope that tickles your funny bone.

But I am sincerely sorry and hope that my apology will relieve any unintended insult. And I don't take offense that you will no longer be reading my posts. Most people don't and those who do usually take offense at them anyway and then heap insults on me.

Sincerely,

PatC

Here's the link to a clean joke for you (Thelma the Thunderstealing Bitch was the alias that I used when I first started psoting here five months ago):You too can be a Sat Guru

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 10:01:53 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Have you been playing with that pornolizer again?
Message:
You naughty boy. You were told not to touch it. Now see all the trouble it's got you into.

Go and wash your hands right now.

Then go to your room.

I'll be up to deal with you later.

Mistress Anthia the Strict.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 21:36:30 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Patsy, Let It Roll Right Off Your Back...
Message:
Patrick,

It was semi-innocent fun...that's all

When I saw Jim's thread, I couldn't even get to the website! I started reading the thread, then took a hike, mainly, because I was pissed I couldn't get to the ponolize site.

When I saw your post to Michele, I thought, oboy, this is going to be a fan-hitting shit contest. You were excited by yesterday's events, sweetie. Michele got offended, so what? She's offended me plenty by her satsang--to the point I get off the site before I throw a fit (I, too, am learning).

Michele started an ''I'm not going to read these people list with your name right out there. Why? What did you ever do to her? I asked her to add my name to it, solidariaty, my friend.

She's hooked on the feet, Pat, we know what that's like. It gets so tiresome reading that shit, we deserve a break, this is EPO!

Maybe Michele is simply an ex-Industrial Strength Church Lady...she can't give up the Glob, but everything is wrong, so she's trying to give up the church!

You all were in my thoughts last night...you lucky folks, getting together, meeting eachother, and having fun!

Love,
Cynthia

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 10:03:22 (GMT)
From: Tony
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Hey Cynth,don't pinch my nickname for Pat C.
Message:
G'day Cynthia,
I thought I was very clever thinking up Patsy,but you may use it so long as you send me the appropriate Copyright fee.Lol.

Cheers Tony.

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 14:57:09 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Tony
Subject: Waaaiit just one minute!
Message:
Hi Tony,

I think I was the first one to call him Patsy. But we can share:))))

Love,
Cynthia

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 20:36:10 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Unnecessary Pat, IMO
Message:
It's just words, and as words go Michelle's use of them in defending M is ten times as offensive as the grubbiest obscenities any software could concoct.

At least you got a response from Michelle - which is much more than others did when attempting normal communication with her.

In a way it is very convenient for our premie visitor to have a reason for splitting other than her own inability to face harsh realities (which is probably her main problem).

Hmm... perhaps you should instead apologise for interrupting Michelle's higher education - and to the rest of us for spoiling our entertainment ;)

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 19:47:08 (GMT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Laudable Pat but ...
Message:
probably EVERYONE lurking or participating at that time of the pornliser posts must have been aware that WE WERE ALL having a lark around.

Micheles excuses about ' oh I'm slow ....how do I use this site ....someone please please help me .....Im slow .....I cant answer youe valis questions .....iM slow....I dont know about the internet.....ill either ignore you for hating/ insulting me or ....oh im slow ' all that was paraphrase but

TOTAL BULLSHIT

Under various aliases FOR A FEW YEARS she's been using this forum LONGER THAN YOU AND I COMBINED.

Every thread ( at that time last night ) was being ponolised ....

I agree to an extent if she was THE ONLY person taking offence then it's gallant of you to apologise .....she'll love it that a whole seperate thread is devoted to an apology to hear

Excuse me while I barf .....

Cheers

Dermot

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 20:06:24 (GMT)
From: clh
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: response to: Laudable Pat but .
Message:
Michele wasn't the only 1 offended. I was, too. I am not 'slow' but hadn't been interested in the pornolizer thread so didn't get to it till later. But I still find PatC's use of it on Michelle, whom she'd just been beating up on (with some provocation) abusive and sexually harrassing.

No apology is owed me, but you miss the point. Do you, as an ex, really want to (in AA slang) co-sign, ie, endorse, ANYONE'S abusive behaviour?

In part, that is what does, indeed, make PatC's apology laudable, assuming it's real. Her 'clean' joke at the end gives me to wonder, a little.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 20:15:11 (GMT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: clh
Subject: response to: Laudable Pat but .
Message:
Lots of posts Steve mS for example was pornolised ....it was a lark .....I really wouldnt call it personally abusive but I dont live in PC land .....it just seemed obvious that the software was manipulating the text.

If people were people PERSONALLY affronted then thats a shame and yup an apology is in order.

I and I think most just saw it as a bit of fun. Obviously not everyone felt the same.

Cheers

Dermot

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 19:53:06 (GMT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: excuse grammar/spelling...wound up :) (nt)
Message:
zz
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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 19:44:04 (GMT)
From: clh
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Reply, from clh: My apologies to Michele Deradune
Message:
Pat, if that's not Michelle's face or body used in the pictures of your 'clean' joke, good job of owning your behavior, even your mistakes. If it is her, and you are baiting her further...
Please advise, as I hate respecting/disrespecting on the basis of assumptions.
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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 20:02:02 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: clh
Subject: Reply, to clh: No those pics are not of Michele
Message:
Those pics are of me in my persona as Thelma - just kidding. The body is that of a cyber dominatrix and the face I created using Kai's Supergoo for use on my Porn Nun Web Ring. And my apoolgy was sincere even if I couldn't resist goofing off a bit. Sorry, I'm still feeling so blissed out from some absolutely fabulous satsang with 24 manmuts last night.
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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 20:10:03 (GMT)
From: clh
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Reply, to clh: No those pics are not of Michele
Message:
I believe you. So my apologies for my doubt, expressed in my response to Dermot, above. Apparently we were writing these posts at the same time!
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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 19:57:58 (GMT)
From: Katie H
Email: None
To: clh
Subject: That's 'Thelma' - Pat's alter-ego (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 21:56:24 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Katie H
Subject: Katie, Chuck did that spoof using Thelma
Message:
He also got the idea from a write-up about this blue-green algae pond-scum goop we take about how to get rid of intestinal parasites and just transposed it to that mental parasite, LOTU.

So you told me so, huh? Yes, the Ex-Premie Dot Orgy was cosmic. I'm still glowing.

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 01:34:33 (GMT)
From: Katie H
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Hey, Thelma rules...what can I say?
Message:
Although you did get to meet Heidi (who can put Thelma in the shade any time she wants), Ophelia, and Selene (ditto) last night.

Seriously, I am so glad you enjoyed it. I think Chuck's idea for a cookout is great. One time, the 'mid-Atlantic' ex-premies met at Robyn's house in the country for a weekend, and we had a blast - campfires and all. We rented rooms in a nearby motel, and just had a lot of fun. (I'm sure you can imagine!).

BTW, I should tell you that I think your ability to apologize is wonderful. I think it's very important to be able to do that - and you sure can. (And I almost ALWAYS read your posts - except for the pornolizer ones, that is :)!)

Love,
Katie

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 23:40:39 (GMT)
From: Charles Sprague
Email: bctanda@hotmail.com
To: PatC
Subject: A correction, and an acknowledgement...
Message:
Blue-green algae does not remove intestinal parasites, of which I am happy to say we have none. What it DOES do is build up benefitial intestinal flora and fauna, which florish and flush out less desirable bacteria, and therby improves the absorption of nutrients generally, improving overall health. I'm sure you folks in Oregon are familiar with Cell-Tech's algae products.

The instructions for taking the Cell-Tech products list four steps for building strong intestinal bacteria. The steps are titled:

1.) The Foundation

2.) Solidify

3.) Strengthen

4.) Maintain and Florish

It struck me how the sames steps to build up bacteria cultures could easily be used to build up a CULT. Thelma agreed, and modified them slightly for her You too can be a Sat Gooroo course.

But I cannot take credit for the text in Step One. Most of that was adapted from a post Jim Heller had made to ''Cerise'', describing how we got involved with the cult. I thought his post brilliant and saved a copy. When writing Step One for Thelma, it was a natural fit.

I've modified the ''Sat Gooroo'' comic slightly, to incorporate some of the earlier comics like the Sat Dogs, and added two informational links at the bottom, Rev. Moore's essay on Idolization and Paranoia, in which Forum V's own Marianne Bachers is mentioned, and a link to Faqir Chand's website, which is an honest look at guru's by a guru. I wouldn't want him as a guru either, as I've completely gone off guru's, but I have to admire the man's honesty.

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Date: Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 19:46:30 (GMT)
From: Cocker Spamiel
Email: None
To: Charles Sprague
Subject: Makes me wanna bow wow down, dogonnit! (nt)
Message:
shnerfle
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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 00:24:04 (GMT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Charles Sprague
Subject: You too can be....my god that's soooo funny
Message:
and absolutely brilliant. I haven't laughed so much in a long long time.

Superb :))))))

Cheers

Dermot

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