Forum V: Archive
Compiled: Fri, Jun 22, 2001 at 06:28:03 (GMT)
From: Jun 11, 2001 To: Jun 20, 2001 Page: 5 Of: 5


Carl -:- Hooray! Now, what happened? /nt -:- Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 18:24:04 (GMT)
__ Forum Admin -:- Detailed Explanation about what happened -:- Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 18:52:09 (GMT)
__ __ Brian -:- Correction -:- Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 21:11:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ Selene -:- computers are impossible ot -:- Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 21:39:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Katie H -:- computers are impossible - you ain't kidding ot -:- Thurs, Jun 14, 2001 at 15:12:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- at least it wasn't rotting vegies -:- Thurs, Jun 14, 2001 at 22:51:52 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- Detailed Explanation about what happened -:- Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 19:45:12 (GMT)
__ __ PatC -:- We can live without FV but EPO is important -:- Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 19:04:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ Francesca -:- I'd agree, and ... -:- Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 19:29:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ Bob -:- We can live without FV but EPO is important -:- Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 19:28:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ JHB -:- We can live without FV but EPO is important -:- Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 21:13:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Francesca -:- Bingo. No can do. You are techie. n/t -:- Thurs, Jun 14, 2001 at 03:39:44 (GMT)
__ Chuck Sprague -:- I'd still like to see a mirror site available... -:- Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 18:42:47 (GMT)
__ __ Brian -:- Purple cows -:- Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 21:59:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ Chuck Sprague -:- I see now. Thanks for explaining (NT) -:- Thurs, Jun 14, 2001 at 00:40:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ Selene -:- and even then the nameservice take time -:- Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 22:05:37 (GMT)
__ Nigel -:- New emergency forum - bookmark -:- Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 18:40:38 (GMT)
__ __ janet -:- put a link to it on anything goes, too -:- Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 18:47:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ Nigel -:- AG, not mine. You'll have to ask Sir D. (nt) -:- Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 18:49:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ janet -:- i know. how bout it , sir dave?? link from AG? -:- Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 18:59:02 (GMT)

Media Resource Team -:- Michael Nouri - premie, actor.....songwriter? -:- Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 17:08:45 (GMT)
__ Francesca -:- don't they have the verse about -:- Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 18:14:54 (GMT)
__ __ Francesca -:- and the rest of the verse -:- Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 19:11:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ Deborah -:- and the rest of the verse -:- Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 22:47:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Francesca -:- not sure about the tune -:- Thurs, Jun 14, 2001 at 03:43:09 (GMT)

Media Resource Team -:- We have a picture for your site Pia -:- Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 16:48:15 (GMT)
__ Nigel -:- No, that's just some guy on shoe-shine service (nt -:- Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 19:45:21 (GMT)
__ Salam -:- We have a picture for your site Pia -:- Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 19:23:53 (GMT)
__ Steve Quint -:- What's The Big Deal? -:- Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 16:53:44 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- Hahaahhaaaahahahaha! Nice one, Steve: (and good to -:- Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 18:19:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ Rick -:- Or talking to Ralph on the big white phone nt -:- Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 18:39:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ janet -:- in prem's case, the big gold phone-dont forget -:- Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 18:57:35 (GMT)

Jim -:- Warning, Pia: don't try to sort out confusion! -:- Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 13:14:28 (GMT)
__ janet -:- confusion isn't caused by confusion, it comes -:- Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 19:15:21 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- oh man, oh shit, oh ... -:- Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 20:09:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ PatC -:- He talks in koans, Chris, to boggle the brain. -:- Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 23:41:00 (GMT)
__ janet -:- confusion doesnt come from confusion, it comes -:- Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 19:10:41 (GMT)
__ Jerry -:- The 'procedures' -:- Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 17:15:29 (GMT)
__ __ Steve M -:- The 'procedures' -:- Thurs, Jun 14, 2001 at 06:34:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ PatC -:- The 'procedures' are 1) watch video 2) send check -:- Thurs, Jun 14, 2001 at 09:07:00 (GMT)
__ __ la-ex -:- Nice post,Jerry.Common sense is uncommon... -:- Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 22:20:00 (GMT)
__ Steve Quint -:- Being A PWK These Days Is Not A Piece Of Cake -:- Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 16:26:21 (GMT)
__ __ Carl -:- Does EPO (or any ex) have a complete library of -:- Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 17:25:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ Forum Admin -:- The status of the anti Maharaji sites -:- Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 19:00:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Carl -:- Maybe that was wishful thinking . . . but it seems -:- Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 20:09:58 (GMT)
__ Steve Quint -:- Electricity -:- Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 13:47:39 (GMT)
__ __ janet -:- Electricity, light, a torch, bioluminescence, etc -:- Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 19:37:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ Steve Quint -:- ***Best Of Forum*** nt -:- Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 21:48:40 (GMT)

Steve Quint -:- Sent To Pia This Morning -:- Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 12:47:56 (GMT)
__ Steve Quint -:- Pia Was My Great Grandmother's Name -:- Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 12:52:21 (GMT)

Jean-Michel -:- Combat Review: 2nd part now online on EPO -:- Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 10:33:06 (GMT)
__ Susan -:- this is GREAT Jean Michel -:- Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 15:23:07 (GMT)
__ __ Jean-Michel -:- this is GREAT Jean Michel -:- Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 17:25:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ Katie H -:- Illustrations and photos are OUTRAGEOUS! -:- Thurs, Jun 14, 2001 at 13:58:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ Susan -:- yes JM I do see -:- Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 17:45:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- One EV honcho just told me m did read it!!! -:- Thurs, Jun 14, 2001 at 08:59:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ la-ex -:- JM, when will the Eng. translation will be here?nt -:- Thurs, Jun 14, 2001 at 13:26:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Translation ? I don't know !! -:- Thurs, Jun 14, 2001 at 14:41:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Susan -:- I am SO glad he read it -:- Thurs, Jun 14, 2001 at 13:22:55 (GMT)
__ salam -:- Combat Review: 2nd part now online on EPO -:- Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 12:05:25 (GMT)
__ __ Jean-Michel -:- Combat Review: 3rd part now online on EPO -:- Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 17:13:52 (GMT)

Farti ji -:- I know who CW is.Should I reveal his identity on -:- Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 09:53:59 (GMT)
__ Carl -:- How exactly do you know who it is for sure? /nt -:- Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 16:43:00 (GMT)
__ Can someone post the link -:- to Anything Goes so we can see who the catweasel -:- Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 15:11:09 (GMT)
__ Forum Admin -:- If you did.... -:- Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 10:43:39 (GMT)
__ __ Francesca -:- Could we simply amend the rules?? -:- Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 16:08:40 (GMT)
__ __ Salam -:- If you did....but -:- Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 12:12:47 (GMT)
__ __ Farti ji -:- Ok.Info is given to FA .Gotcha CW at last. nt -:- Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 11:49:01 (GMT)
__ janet the snoop -:- Oh why stop there? let's have everything: -:- Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 10:31:58 (GMT)
__ __ Farti ji -:- I can tell you this.He has probably just shit -:- Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 11:54:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- Do it on AG -:- Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 12:27:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Here's a perfect example -:- Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 12:34:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- And the most irritating thing is... -:- Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 13:14:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- What's the big deal? Post his name on AG! -:- Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 17:38:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ JohnT -:- I second that -:- Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 12:31:12 (GMT)
__ Brian -:- Grow up -:- Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 10:18:09 (GMT)
__ __ Farti ji -:- I just did..I am now 8 foot tall...nt. -:- Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 11:51:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ CW -:- Sniff ,Sniff................ -:- Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 12:16:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ PatC -:- My final word to you Catweasel -:- Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 18:49:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ CW -:- Au revior -:- Thurs, Jun 14, 2001 at 06:27:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- You haven't known me, Cat -:- Thurs, Jun 14, 2001 at 08:35:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Catweasel -:- You haven't known me, Cat -:- Thurs, Jun 14, 2001 at 09:19:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- What's left but flaming then? -:- Thurs, Jun 14, 2001 at 16:11:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ CW -:- What's left but flaming then? -:- Fri, Jun 15, 2001 at 00:18:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Bazza -:- We're all ears mate -:- Fri, Jun 15, 2001 at 03:58:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ CW -:- I tell you ;it's the truth! -:- Fri, Jun 15, 2001 at 06:30:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Don't you get tired of playing that silly game? -:- Fri, Jun 15, 2001 at 08:41:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ CW -:- NOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooo!!!!!!!! -:- Fri, Jun 15, 2001 at 09:08:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Well, that did it Weasel, you've cooked your goose -:- Fri, Jun 15, 2001 at 16:53:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Okay, Cat, so tell me about yourself then -:- Fri, Jun 15, 2001 at 01:18:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Good one, Pat -:- Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 23:29:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Third reason to out him: maybe we'll like him -:- Thurs, Jun 14, 2001 at 00:54:28 (GMT)

Mr. Mind -:- Reasons why the few remaining Rawatians stay -:- Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 08:57:01 (GMT)
__ Susan -:- don't forget pride and ego -:- Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 16:05:18 (GMT)
__ __ Mr. Mind -:- yes, Tattoo warned us about this -:- Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 20:45:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ Susan -:- tattoo !!!!! -:- Thurs, Jun 14, 2001 at 05:13:43 (GMT)
__ Jerry -:- Reasons why the few remaining Rawatians stay -:- Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 14:00:43 (GMT)
__ __ PatC -:- Holy Cow, Jerry! You put it in a nutshell! -:- Thurs, Jun 14, 2001 at 08:48:42 (GMT)
__ __ Mr. Mind -:- I had forgotten that one, Jerry -:- Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 20:51:04 (GMT)
__ nagual rain -:- Reasons why the few remaining Rawatians stay -:- Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 12:33:55 (GMT)
__ __ wolfie -:- listen to the rythm of the falling rain (nt) -:- Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 15:11:05 (GMT)

Peter Howie -:- Pia and others and the 'End justifying the means' -:- Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 04:36:00 (GMT)
__ nagual rain -:- Pia and others and the 'End justifying the means' -:- Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 12:48:15 (GMT)
__ __ Peter Howie -:- Pia and others and the 'End justifying the means' -:- Thurs, Jun 14, 2001 at 03:06:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ Peter Howie -:- Prev msg to nagual rain not wolfie - apols wolfie -:- Thurs, Jun 14, 2001 at 03:09:17 (GMT)
__ __ wolfie -:- once he was satguru -:- Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 15:32:29 (GMT)
__ janet -:- kaboom. wow , was that powerful. -:- Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 10:40:14 (GMT)
__ sivan -:- Peter,influence from above -:- Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 08:25:16 (GMT)

Peter Howie -:- Fishing for MJ -:- Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 04:06:19 (GMT)
__ Kelly -:- Fishing for MJ -:- Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 20:58:20 (GMT)
__ nagual rain -:- Fishing for MJ -:- Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 12:54:02 (GMT)
__ __ wolfie -:- you really did some meditation in this lifetime ? -:- Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 15:43:43 (GMT)
__ sivan -:- sydney then, Peter?ot -:- Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 08:35:46 (GMT)
__ CW -:- Surfing for MJ -:- Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 08:14:19 (GMT)
__ __ You don't know -:- WE??? Ah! CW's a Queen -nt- -:- Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 12:27:18 (GMT)

Brian -:- Maharaji, the Mystical Meditation Master -:- Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 00:25:17 (GMT)
__ nagual rain -:- Maharaji, the Mystical Meditation Master -:- Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 12:58:39 (GMT)
__ __ Francesca -:- and you are under his JUJU spell er smell n/t -:- Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 18:18:15 (GMT)
__ __ wolfie -:- and he loves you like Jesus does (nt) -:- Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 15:38:38 (GMT)
__ Salam -:- Maharaji, the Mystical Meditation Master -:- Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 12:43:00 (GMT)
__ Deborha -:- Looks like they're trying to cover all bases... -:- Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 01:42:10 (GMT)
__ __ G -:- Carlos says he's the Beloved, the Manifest -:- Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 04:29:39 (GMT)

Gregg -:- K vs. Special K -:- Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 20:16:04 (GMT)
__ Brian Smith -:- Neither one for me -:- Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 20:29:35 (GMT)

Salam -:- Pia, times up -:- Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 17:12:39 (GMT)
__ salam -:- Pia, times up -:- Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 19:08:32 (GMT)
__ __ Selene -:- ok this isn't anything goes -:- Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 23:46:31 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- You pornolizing a bit there, Salam? -:- Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 20:17:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ Salam -:- You pornolizing a bit there, Salam? -:- Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 01:39:11 (GMT)
__ __ such -:- let's do launch! -:- Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 19:19:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ salam -:- let's do launch! -:- Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 01:28:57 (GMT)

For people with K -:- from Pia's site -:- Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 16:33:11 (GMT)

Connie -:- A few months on...... -:- Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 15:35:17 (GMT)
__ Gary Epton -:- A few months on...... -:- Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 08:12:21 (GMT)
__ __ Connie -:- Baby, bathwater and megalomaniacs -:- Thurs, Jun 14, 2001 at 07:02:38 (GMT)
__ Moldy Warp -:- 'Soul rape' - spot on Connie xxx nt. -:- Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 19:45:05 (GMT)
__ suchabanana -:- cult: m is everything,devotee is speck of dust (nt -:- Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 19:10:53 (GMT)
__ Francesca -:- GOOD INSIGHTS Connie -:- Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 18:46:17 (GMT)
__ __ Connie -:- Emotional baggage/heightened reaction -:- Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 00:07:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ Francesca -:- You are in a wonderful place -:- Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 04:12:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Connie -:- I didn't hurl....... -:- Thurs, Jun 14, 2001 at 03:39:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Katie H -:- Didn't hurl either, Francesca - thanks! -:- Thurs, Jun 14, 2001 at 14:31:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Francesca -:- I sure do -:- Thurs, Jun 14, 2001 at 16:43:58 (GMT)
__ __ Helen -:- Connie -:- Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 23:58:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ Connie -:- Helen -:- Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 00:17:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Helen -:- narcissistic spiritual trips -:- Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 03:12:14 (GMT)
__ salam -:- A few months on...... -:- Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 17:25:47 (GMT)
__ __ Connie -:- thanks Salam (nt) -:- Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 00:20:18 (GMT)

Steve Quint -:- Coincidences -:- Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 10:26:02 (GMT)
__ dv -:- Coincidences -:- Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 02:19:32 (GMT)
__ Brian Smith -:- Coincidences/ Very Funny stuff, Thanks Steve (nt) -:- Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 20:46:49 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- Isn't that site funny? -:- Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 16:25:08 (GMT)
__ __ Steve Quint -:- Have You Read The Book? -:- Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 16:49:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- I've looked at it -- sheer hokum all over it -:- Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 01:06:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ Steve Quint -:- And By The Way -:- Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 19:55:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Steve Quint -:- We Probably All Need A Few Laughs -:- Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 19:59:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ Moldy Warp -:- I've read it Steve - it's bollocks nt -:- Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 19:38:48 (GMT)
__ Moldy Warp -:- The 9 Insights of the Celestine Prophecy... -:- Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 13:47:30 (GMT)
__ nagual rain -:- Coincidences -:- Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 13:37:44 (GMT)
__ __ Deborah -:- Coincidences -- Why is EV, and BigHead afraid? huh -:- Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 21:32:52 (GMT)
__ __ Francesca -:- Most people with money have computers -:- Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 18:54:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ janet -:- and we who dont, have WebTV! heh heh -:- Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 10:56:59 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- Coincidences - a change of subject is this? -:- Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 18:44:05 (GMT)
__ __ Bob -:- Computers and internet -:- Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 16:06:11 (GMT)
__ __ Scott T. -:- Coincidences -:- Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 15:24:54 (GMT)
__ __ Gregg -:- nagual vs. tonal -:- Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 14:43:39 (GMT)


Date: Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 18:24:04 (GMT)
From: Carl
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Hooray! Now, what happened? /nt
Message:
yowza
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Date: Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 18:52:09 (GMT)
From: Forum Admin
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Detailed Explanation about what happened
Message:
1. The EPO site became unavailable.
2. The Webmaster complained to the service provider.
3. They said there was no problem.
4. The webmaster said there was and proved it.
5. They eventually fixed it.

This explanation will probably serve for future downtime as well. For those who say we should find another service provider, or pay for a more reliable service, remember this isn't an air traffic control system, or some other life critical system, so we can all live without it for a few hours or a day or two.

I know the FAs can:-)

Forum Admin

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Date: Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 21:11:57 (GMT)
From: Brian
Email: brian@ex-premie.org
To: Forum Admin
Subject: Correction
Message:
It appears to have been a routing problem affecting port 80, and HTTP requests weren't arriving at the server. The problem wasn't on their end where I could whine to get it fixed. Someone else out there fixed their problem, and ours disappeared in the process.

Still, I got to practice some whining...

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Date: Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 21:39:41 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: computers are impossible ot
Message:
Sorry everyone - geek talk.
yesterday I had no net access from work.
I restarted the network services over and over.
Everyone else could reach me, I just could not get out, after months of this same configuration working just fine.
Turns out one of our nameservers was OTL and even though I have configured to go to the next one if this happens, it didn't.
So I deleted the bad nameserver address and everything works.
This should not have been a problem and what I did should not have fixed it because I couldn't get out via IP number either. but it did fix the problem. eek.

A lot of paranoia happens when EPO goes down but I understand how many factors are involved. Constant problem solving, glad you like it Brian!! someone has to :)

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Date: Thurs, Jun 14, 2001 at 15:12:30 (GMT)
From: Katie H
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: computers are impossible - you ain't kidding ot
Message:
Hi Selene -
Not sure if Brian 'likes' the constant problem solving, but, as he said, the opportunity to whine is priceless. (I agree!)

Actually, one positive thing about this down time is that people are getting less paranoid about the site going down :).

Thanks for your techie input - as always, it's much appreciated.

Love,
Katie

Who is still recovering from spending a very hot day climbing around on several mountains of rotting sawdust - it's a living, I guess...

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Date: Thurs, Jun 14, 2001 at 22:51:52 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Katie H
Subject: at least it wasn't rotting vegies
Message:
Thanks Katie.
I don't do *anything* outside in the summer anymore. Not til nightime or at least in an air conditioned car en route to another air conditioned place.
What a goon M was to threaten us with that vegies satsang, although I have to admit I didn't give it a lot of attention then or now but i know he did scare a lot of people with it.
Guess he was talking from experience :)
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Date: Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 19:45:12 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Forum Admin
Subject: Detailed Explanation about what happened
Message:
Hey, you FA-people,

Times like these, you need all the strokes you can get ..., so:

Three cheers for those generous souls who give their free time and their hard-earned sweat to keep EPO and its Forum up and running!

Hip hip ... hooray!

Hip hip ... hooray!

Hip hip ... hooray!

.
.
.

and so sez me (at least).


Thanks again,

Chris

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Date: Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 19:04:40 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Forum Admin
Subject: We can live without FV but EPO is important
Message:
Like Chuck, I think we need to have the EPO pages on a mirror site.
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Date: Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 19:29:13 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: I'd agree, and ...
Message:
I'd contribute if need be. EPO should not get shut down once a month or so if we can help it. I agree we can all live without FV (although I admit I've been on recentexes, AG and Nigel's site during the 'blackout'), in fact, it could be a good break.

But it's not good to have EPO down if we can help it. If there's anything we can do to help, let us know!

--f

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Date: Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 19:28:50 (GMT)
From: Bob
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: We can live without FV but EPO is important
Message:
There should be at least a page announcing that there is a tech problem.
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Date: Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 21:13:40 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Bob
Subject: We can live without FV but EPO is important
Message:
Errrr, if the server is down how can it send a page saying there's a technical problem?

John the techie simpleton.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 14, 2001 at 03:39:44 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Bingo. No can do. You are techie. n/t
Message:
n/t
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Date: Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 18:42:47 (GMT)
From: Chuck Sprague
Email: bctanda@hotmail.com
To: Everyone
Subject: I'd still like to see a mirror site available...
Message:
Isn't it possible to have a mirror site kick in when these server problems happen? I realize that you can't have the forum on a mirror site, but what about the rest of the content on this website?

If that were still available, while the forum was not, then some of the premies who come here to whine might actually bother to READ some of the content, instead of boring us here with their I-haven't-got-a-clue posts because they never bothered to read the very extensive and detailed information and links on the rest of this site.

Would a mirror site be that difficult to do?

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Date: Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 21:59:55 (GMT)
From: Brian
Email: brian@ex-premie.org
To: Chuck Sprague
Subject: Purple cows
Message:
Isn't it possible to have a mirror site kick in when these server problems happen?

There's no such thing as what you're describing, as far as I've heard. When a HTTP server on the net isn't available to respond, then the requesting browser gets no response. Period. HTTP requests on the net are not routinely passed through some supervising filter to look for valid responses, and to redirect requests to another site if none is found.

Non-reponses are handled by the requesting browser. Netscape times-out. IE displays a pre-set page that asks if you want to run a program to test your connection.

A 'mirror site' is a site that someone has taken it on their own to create and to host the content contained on the site being mirrored.

Would a mirror site be that difficult to do?

It's virtually impossible. It requires someone to it.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 14, 2001 at 00:40:49 (GMT)
From: Chuck Sprague
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: I see now. Thanks for explaining (NT)
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 22:05:37 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: and even then the nameservice take time
Message:
to propogate all over the world. a day to a week depending.
I had a manager once who was anal about 24 by 7 uptime and we HAD to create the mirror site just to proove to her how inefficient it was.
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Date: Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 18:40:38 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Carl
Subject: New emergency forum - bookmark
Message:
this page:

http://www.hotboards.com/plus/plus.mirage?who=nige

..for when the server goes down (which is happening a lot at the moment) - or other times too, if you really want to. Guru-specific and rules pretty much the same as F5, so if you don't like Anything Goes try this one instead.

(Probably the only difference with here will be my total intolerance of anonymous premie flame posts and limited patience with completely 'ot' stuff. But having said that, I won't have much time for adminning, so won't be able to enforce guidelines too rigorously or promptly.)

Anyway, it's there if you ever want it. I'll let it die if it doesn't get used.

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Date: Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 18:47:38 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: put a link to it on anything goes, too
Message:
so we can get there if we forget or whatever.
i just put it on my F6 key but still
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Date: Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 18:49:26 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: AG, not mine. You'll have to ask Sir D. (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 18:59:02 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: i know. how bout it , sir dave?? link from AG?
Message:
how hard could it be?
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Date: Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 17:08:45 (GMT)
From: Media Resource Team
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Michael Nouri - premie, actor.....songwriter?
Message:
This was published in the 1974 Songbook, © Divine Light Mission

'Daisies' by Michael Nouri

Daisies all around my head
Flowers are yellow, blue and red.
Springtime is just around the bend.
We're talking, me and my best friend.

Chorus:

How do you do?
I'm doin' fine.
If you're low on happiness
Please help yourself to mine.

Wheatfields are blowin' in the wind.
Oh you white clouds, I'm hopin' you will send
Sweet springtime passin' by my way
Oh you blue skies, you make me want to say.

Chorus.

How ya doin'? I'm doin' fine.
My name's Billy, and this here's my Valentine.
And we're waitin', for spring to be comin' through
Won't you join us, and you can have some too.

Chorus.

If you're low on happiness
Please help yourself to mine.
If you're low on happiness
Please help yourself to mine.

Repeat ad nauseum...

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Date: Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 18:14:54 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Media Resource Team
Subject: don't they have the verse about
Message:
'we're waiting, for our LORD to be coming through'

I remember Michael singing it that way a lot, in LA. Dear old Michael never knew when to quit. A loveable ham.

--f

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Date: Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 19:11:41 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: and the rest of the verse
Message:
'we're waiting
for our Lord to be coming through
won't you join us?
And you can see him too.'

Or something like that
'won't you join us'
might have been 'please come with us' or something. And the verse might have been the 'premie ad-lib' he did for satsang and not part of the official song. But that's the way I always heard it ...

--f

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Date: Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 22:47:45 (GMT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: and the rest of the verse
Message:
Hey Francesca,

Can that we sung to the tune from 'Oh come with us and gallop, and gallop and gallop, Oh come with us and gallop -- to RomperRoom Today.'

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Date: Thurs, Jun 14, 2001 at 03:43:09 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: not sure about the tune
Message:
But the 'feeling' would be about the same!

Yes, being a simple premie leads to brain rot and listening to 'daddy' too much!

love, f

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Date: Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 16:48:15 (GMT)
From: Media Resource Team
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: We have a picture for your site Pia
Message:
Cut/paste this link into your browser:

http://www.geocities.com/agforumdata/pranam.jpg

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Date: Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 19:45:21 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: Media Resource Team
Subject: No, that's just some guy on shoe-shine service (nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 19:23:53 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Media Resource Team
Subject: We have a picture for your site Pia
Message:
Great stuff,

Have you got one with his mala on, you know, like the one that roger has but without the tits.

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Date: Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 16:53:44 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Media Resource Team
Subject: What's The Big Deal?
Message:
Obviously, some guy turned a corner and saw Prem's face and decided the floor was a better view.

Steve

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Date: Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 18:19:08 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Steve Quint
Subject: Hahaahhaaaahahahaha! Nice one, Steve: (and good to
Message:
(good to see FV back on line again).

That pic of the guy doing the full-frontal 'pranam' - do you think maybe it could have been one of those 'talking to God' (minus the Great White Telephone) moments?

Ha!

.
.
.
.

(for those of you with English as second language of preference, 'talking to God on the Great White Telephone' means the same as 'parking a custard' you dig? er ... 'having a technicolor yawn' - no? How about having a 'call for Hughie' (or 'Mr Green'). Still non comprehende?

OK, they also call it boaking/chundering/upchucking/... er, in a word, - correction, in two words, - being SICK!) In one word: vomiting. (so that's how he gets the special shine on his shoes!)

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Date: Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 18:39:20 (GMT)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Or talking to Ralph on the big white phone nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 18:57:35 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Rick
Subject: in prem's case, the big gold phone-dont forget
Message:
and looking harder at the background in that photo, whats all that awful junk around them? is that the bathroom he's just come out of? is that why he's hiding his hands? why is there a towel racks with a towel on it directly to the left? what awfull, dark, heavy, gloomy setting is this? the jumble warehouse at divine sales? the toilet at St. Mark's Place, after the fire?

actually, you don't want this shot. the googoo looks too cute and bashfull about it all. Find one more imperious and demanding and frightening.

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Date: Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 13:14:28 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Warning, Pia: don't try to sort out confusion!
Message:
[Just sent to Pia:

Pia,

I know you're too busy not answering my other messages to you to answer this one but I thought I'd send it anyway. Well, that's unconditional love for you.

Here's Maharaji's latest message from EV's newsletter and straight to your heart. Notice how, like I was saying before, he doesn't exactly go for this 'clearing things up' stuff. I'd say that one of you, cult leader or cult member, is a little out of synch:

Confusion is confusion. And confusion is there not because of confusion but because of lack of clarity. You want to get rid of confusion? Don't try to sort out confusion, because if you try to sort it out you're just going to get more confused. Garner, escort, bring in pure, sweet clarity. That is the only way you can untangle the web of confusion. Don't take a bucket and try to throw darkness out the window. That's not going to do you any good. You want to take away the darkness? Then bring on the light and the darkness will go away. There are simple procedures for these things. It's not that the procedures don't work. They always work. Believe me, they always work, it's just that we forget them. We forget that they work. Then, somebody comes along and reminds and we go, 'Ah. Okay.'

Capiche?

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Date: Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 19:15:21 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: confusion isn't caused by confusion, it comes
Message:
from a lack of clarity'

yeah right--
same device New York Mayor David Dinkins tried to use, to weasel out of criminal charges of tax evasion, with this exquisite defense:

'I didn't committ a crime. I simply failed to comply with the Law'.

and Dan Quayle's explanation to Environmentalists:
'It isn't the pollution that is causing our problems--it's the impurities in our air and water.'

!Sacre Bleu! ow cood ah av bin zo ztoopeed? ov kairrss eet eez. ze ansair eez so ob vyuzz to mee naow!

-----------------------

hey you--yeah you-- the golden greaseball--
confusion comes from you trying to put one over on the listeners, and their brains recoiling and saying 'that isn't the way I see it! That isn't the way I know it to be true--that's WRONG!'

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Date: Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 20:09:02 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: oh man, oh shit, oh ...
Message:
jeezus on a crutch ...

don't you get it? THAT's the whole selling-point of the man they call the 'master'.

Mr Rawat (or 'Maharaji' to those who profess to love him) has gotten this device down to a tee (hee-hee?)

I remember how it felt. I listened to the man spout non-sequitur after non-sequitur until I felt my 'brains recoiling and saying 'that isn't the way I see it! That isn't the way I know it to be true--that's WRONG!''

But THAT's precisely what works for him, Janet!

People go to hear him speak (whether on video/satellite or live) and sooner or later - guess what? - their brains are recoiling and going into overdrive. Why? Simply because of the non-sequiturs.

He manages to overide the brain's logic and hypnotise the recipient purely and simply BECAUSE what he says lack any coherence. The mind goes into a kind of shock at the absurdity of the illogic of his statements.

THAT's the high that premies get off on!

And it IS a tangible phenomenon (at least emotionally). Hence the tie of loyalty to him that those premies who have learnt to dissociate themselves from their minds still prefer to feel. It reinforces a feeling that, by its very presence, DENIES the power of logic.

But WHO sold them on the idea that logic/reasoning was not to be trusted in the first place? Whether it was Rawat or his father, or his mother's father's cousin's second-hamster-in-waiting ... the fact remains that THEY - the premies - have eventually to recognise the fact that what they bought into, they can also buy out of.

In their own time, or course.

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Date: Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 23:41:00 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: He talks in koans, Chris, to boggle the brain.
Message:
No wonder I feel sane since I stopped listening to his gobbledy-gook.
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Date: Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 19:10:41 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: confusion doesnt come from confusion, it comes
Message:
from a lack of clarity'

yeah right--
same device New York Mayor David Dinkins tried to use, to weasel out of criminal charges of tax evasion, with this exquisite defense:

'I didn't committ a crime. I simply failed to comply with the Law'.

and Dan Quayle's explanation to Envoronmentalists:
'It isn't pollution that is causing our problems--it's the impurities in our air and water.'

!Sacre Bleu! ow cood ah av bin zo ztoopeed? ov kairrss eet eez. ze ansair eez so ob vyuzz to mee naow!

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Date: Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 17:15:29 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: The 'procedures'
Message:
It's not that the procedures don't work. They always work.

I'm going to make a big guess what he's talking about here, although he doesn't actually say what those procedures are, just that they work, they ALWAYS work. So, let's assume the procedures are practicing Knowledge and all that entails, primarily meditating and 'keeping in touch', perhaps a little participation thrown in here and there for good measure.

Now, Maharaji, even though you don't spell it out for us what those procedures are (so much for letting the light shine on confusion), I think I'm making a pretty good guess at what you're talking about. My question would be 'how do you know?' What if there is a substantial number of us who say those procedures DON'T work? What if we were to say that they just leave us hanging dry, no closer to our objective than the day we first started, oh so many years ago.

Certainly, you must be aware that this is the contention that many, many premies have had over the years, so why do you continue to insist that they ALWAYS work, when so many of us have experienced that they NEVER work? What's your problem, and believe me, you've got a real problem with this. You keep insisting that your 'procedures' work when many of us know they don't.

How long do you plan to continue burying your head in the sand about this fact? It really doesn't look good for you to continue this facade. The word is out, you know, loud and clear, that many of us are completely unimpressed, in fact, completely disappointed, with our experience practicing Knowledge.

So, a word of advice. Change your tune. Admit that you don't know if the 'procedures' are going to work, that you're aware that many, many people claim they don't, because the longer you insist that you're right about this, the more in denial you're going to look, and the less credibility you're going to have.

Just trying to help out, buddy.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 14, 2001 at 06:34:31 (GMT)
From: Steve M
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: The 'procedures'
Message:
Good point Jerry,

It would indeed be more honest of him to say that the ' procedures ' work for an impressive 2% of those who try them.

Most premies blame themselves when it doesn't work for them. Some people seem to be pretty good at stilling the mind through meditation and others , me for example , find it a tedious and frustrating effort, not a joy.

THE PROCEDURES DIDN'T WORK FOR ME MAHA - Did I give it a chance ?

Was 28 yrs enough ?

Best wishes Jerry
Steve

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Date: Thurs, Jun 14, 2001 at 09:07:00 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Steve M
Subject: The 'procedures' are 1) watch video 2) send check
Message:
No wonder you guys never got anywhere with Knowledge. No one ever meditates! Good god. It isn't about the meditation. It's about the videos! You can never watch enough videos! Fuck meditation. Didn't you know the Master bends the rules and shows us short-cuts? Meditation is for nerds and those silly yogi types.
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Date: Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 22:20:00 (GMT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Nice post,Jerry.Common sense is uncommon...
Message:
Remember that one from m?

The point you make is so simple, and such common sense, but unfortunately not too many people around m have the guts or the opportunity to say something like that to him.

I keep wondering which fable is a better analogy of m...

'The emperor's new clothes' or 'the little boy who cried wolf'...

Your common sense post reminded me of both...

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Date: Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 16:26:21 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Jim
Subject: Being A PWK These Days Is Not A Piece Of Cake
Message:
I walked into the video room Sunday just before the event was due to begin and walked out a minute later. I was with a close friend and wanted to get a sense of what was going on. I'm glad I went and also glad I didn't stay for the video. After looking at the above excerpt, I'm not sure what to make of the years I spent waiting for it all to make sense.

Steve

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Date: Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 17:25:36 (GMT)
From: Carl
Email: None
To: Steve Quint/everyone
Subject: Does EPO (or any ex) have a complete library of
Message:
the M/EV videos produced over the years?

They must be fascinating, as curiosities. Especially the banned or withdrawn ones.

(I never saw an official video, except for the early 'LOTU' -- or was it 'Who Is Guru Maharaj Ji'? -- movie from around 1973).

Since this site is the home of the true historical record, I wonder if, for completeness' sake, those materials should somehow be archived 'here', so to speak.

They will no doubt prove very interesting or valuable in the near future, in ways M/EV did not intend.

That is, the words and attitudes expressed there, unconsciously, will communicate and resonate in new ways as time goes on. It would be like how, when we look at historical film footage, or period advertisements, dress, and so on, we learn new things about our social conditioning, how we used to think without even understanding our underlying assumptions, about our unexamined consensus.

Very instructive, often cringe-worthy, and usually a lot of laughs.

Again, I never saw or went to a video presentation, so I might be off base here. But maybe properly examined and understood, they'd be good preventative or deterrents, to help 'future generations' avoid making similar mistakes. They must be sources of some real howlers, I would expect.

Just an idea. Any thoughts?
C.

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Date: Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 19:00:08 (GMT)
From: Forum Admin
Email: None
To: Carl
Subject: The status of the anti Maharaji sites
Message:
Carl said,

Since this site is the home of the true historical record, I wonder if, for completeness' sake, those materials should somehow be archived 'here', so to speak.

Carl, and anyone else who isn't clear on this,

Before Brian (the EPO webmaster) responds to your statement, I just wanted to say that the EPO site (which is not owned by me) is just a site set up by some ex-premies to give some information about Maharaji. It doesn't have any official status, doesn't pretend to be a complete historical record, and anyone who wants there to be a complete historical record is free to create one.

Forum Admin

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Date: Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 20:09:58 (GMT)
From: Carl
Email: None
To: Forum Admin
Subject: Maybe that was wishful thinking . . . but it seems
Message:
that somehow, with all the links and so forth, and the 'DLM/EV Papers', and the neat things J-M has recently brought forward, that EPO was indeed a repository of a history forgotten, denied or conveniently revised by EV.

I might have been a little over-the-top with the word 'official'. Gad, perish the thought... we don't need Ex versions of WPC, 'suits' or church ladies !

I was basically wondering about those curious M/EV videos . . . I can only imagine they would in time reveal things more disturbing than were originally intended.

BTW, many many thanks for your tireless and unsung efforts on site maintenance. You the man!

Best,
C.

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Date: Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 13:47:39 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Jim
Subject: Electricity
Message:
When you want to turn on a light, flip the switch upward, unless it was installed upside-down, then flip it downward.

Hey, I think I'm getting the hang of this.

Steve

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Date: Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 19:37:07 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Steve Quint
Subject: Electricity, light, a torch, bioluminescence, etc
Message:
what the dumfuck fails to realize is, that if you have confusion and you're trying to work in darkness because you can't see what you're trying to sort out, you bring in illumination of whatever kind you can---eaither that, or you take the whole mess to another place where you CAN shed illumination upon it--i dont care if we're speaking literally or metaphorically--
AND THEN YOU LOOK AT THE ITEMS THAT CONFUSED YOU, BECUASE YOU COULDNT SEE THEM IN THE DARKENSS, AND WITH ILLUMINATION, YOU SEE THEM FOR WHAT THEY ARE AND SORT THEM OUT SO THAT THEY ARE PLAINY VISIBLE TO ONE AND ALL, AND YOU PUT THEM IN THE RIGHT ORDER.

NO NUMBNUTS SITS AND STARES AT THE LIGHT LIKE A DOOFUS. YOU USE THE LIGHT TO ILLUMINATE WHAT'S CONFUSING YOU SO YOU CAN SEE IT AND MAKE IT STRAIGHT.

which of course begs the question, who's creating that obscurity and keeping you in darkness, so you get confused and can't see what you want to know?

ahhhh-it all makes sense to me now. along time ago maharaji said 'maybe you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink----but you can put an awful lot of salt in his food...'

you can tell people about the knowledge and the light, but you can't make them take it. But you can obscure and confuse and black out their understanding until you're the only thing they can listen to.

classic sales tactic. make people want something they don't need.
if you sell towels, pour water on em. if you sell drinks, give em salty snacks for free.
if selling drugs is your income, keep em sick.

if you want them in debt to you, keep giving em credit so they'll always owe you more.
if fixing things is your trade, always break something, in the process of repairing something else.

If you sell enlightenment, confuse them and keep em in the dark.

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Date: Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 21:48:40 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: janet
Subject: ***Best Of Forum*** nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 12:47:56 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Sent To Pia This Morning
Message:
Your Name: Steve Quint
Name you wish to have displayed: Steve Quint
Your email address: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
Country: Canada
Topic you want to respond to: Allegations About Ex-Premie.Org

Enter your response below, then click submit to send:

Sweetheart:

How about some talk about reality. For example, Maharaji and Elan Vital readily show statistics about numbers at events. How about numbers of people with knowledge who've committed suicide, for example.

Reality is a good thing. Look into it.

Steve

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Date: Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 12:52:21 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Steve Quint
Subject: Pia Was My Great Grandmother's Name
Message:
Father's father's mother - from Lithuania.

Steve

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Date: Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 10:33:06 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Combat Review: 2nd part now online on EPO
Message:
L'Aliénation Sectaire Enquête au coeur d'EV .....

Including 1st and 2nd techniques' demonstration, and plenty of illustrations.

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Date: Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 15:23:07 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: this is GREAT Jean Michel
Message:
you should be very proud to be a part of this. I hope that they will see fit to translate it into English too.

The cartoons are awesome.

on a seperate note....Daya is so pretty, she has enough Marolyn in her to counteract the Dad genes and just looks exotic. ( I had not seen a pic of her since she was 3).

Somehow, we need to get the American press to bite. It would be great to have something like this in the US. Maybe Oprah?

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Date: Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 17:25:26 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: this is GREAT Jean Michel
Message:
Do you understand now why EV and m's lawyers are mad ?
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Date: Thurs, Jun 14, 2001 at 13:58:27 (GMT)
From: Katie H
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Illustrations and photos are OUTRAGEOUS!
Message:
Even if you can't read French (like me - I can only understand a bit) - it's worth looking at this just to see the graphics! The cartoons are far more indicting than anything we would put on ex-premie.org ourselves (except the old photos and the technique pictures).

I can see why EV is angry without even reading the text...

Thanks for putting it on-line, J-M.

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Date: Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 17:45:54 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: yes JM I do see
Message:
That was what I thought as I looked at it...that this explains the Pia site very well.

The artwork is really great...makes the guru look just as menacing and creepy as he is!

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Date: Thurs, Jun 14, 2001 at 08:59:27 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: One EV honcho just told me m did read it!!!
Message:
whilst he was in Paris a few days ago.

I guess he didn't do much more than that, given the short time of his stay !!

Do you think he got pissed by the pictures ?

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Date: Thurs, Jun 14, 2001 at 13:26:48 (GMT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: JM, when will the Eng. translation will be here?nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Jun 14, 2001 at 14:41:28 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: Translation ? I don't know !!
Message:
Some exes offered to translate, I don't know where they're at ....
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Date: Thurs, Jun 14, 2001 at 13:22:55 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: I am SO glad he read it
Message:
does he read French?

I am sure the photos pissed him off big time.

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Date: Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 12:05:25 (GMT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Combat Review: 2nd part now online on EPO
Message:
Has anyone translated this to English yet?
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Date: Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 17:13:52 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: salam
Subject: Combat Review: 3rd part now online on EPO
Message:
Testimonies

Elan Vital : Témoignages

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Date: Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 09:53:59 (GMT)
From: Farti ji
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: I know who CW is.Should I reveal his identity on
Message:
this forum or would that be uncool?What do you all think?
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Date: Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 16:43:00 (GMT)
From: Carl
Email: None
To: Farti ji
Subject: How exactly do you know who it is for sure? /nt
Message:
yowza
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Date: Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 15:11:09 (GMT)
From: Can someone post the link
Email: None
To: Farti ji
Subject: to Anything Goes so we can see who the catweasel
Message:
is? Mean people suck.
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Date: Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 10:43:39 (GMT)
From: Forum Admin
Email: forum5god@yahoo.com
To: Farti ji
Subject: If you did....
Message:
.... I would be forced to delete your post, as revealing personal details about posters against their wishes is against forum policy. Strangely enough, this even applies to complete assoles like Catweasel.

Of course, if you were to send a confidential email to the Forum Admins, we could file it away as ammunition should Cat step out of line:-)

BTW, to everyone, we know who Farti ji is.

Forum Admin

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Date: Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 16:08:40 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Forum Admin
Subject: Could we simply amend the rules??
Message:
According to Jim (don't know if this is true but you do), the FAs are unable to block Catweasel. If this is the case, you can amend you rules to say that revealing personal details about posters against their wishes is against forum policy, unless a person's right to post has been revoked and they continue to post and circumvent the EPO FA's blocking measures.

Not just a one time amendment, but a permanent one. It would be up to the FAs to determine whether a troll is out of hand, and give carte blanche for outing.

I say that Glenn Whitaker or some other EV mucky muck is Catweasel.

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Date: Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 12:12:47 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Forum Admin
Subject: If you did....but
Message:
I thought everyone wanted to know who CW was and out premie posters.

Ahh shit who cares, am to busy collecting tits anyway.

men at work

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Date: Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 11:49:01 (GMT)
From: Farti ji
Email: None
To: Forum Admin
Subject: Ok.Info is given to FA .Gotcha CW at last. nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 10:31:58 (GMT)
From: janet the snoop
Email: None
To: Farti ji
Subject: Oh why stop there? let's have everything:
Message:
his name, height, weight, eye color, hair color,and is it straight, or wavy, natural or dyed; his shoe size, pants size, shirt size, birthday, natal chart, date he received knowledge, who from, whether he's gay, straight, bi or trannie, does he smoke and if so, what; is he vegetarian or meat eating, is he overweight, underweight or average, is he healthy or does he suffer any conditions, are they inherited or self generated; does he carry any communicable diseases; which side does he dress on, does he prefer boxers, briefs, nothing, or women's lingerie; does he have any facial hair, any unique birthmarks, scars or moles, is he missing any body parts, is he intact or circumcized, does he have all his shots, what's his lifetime exposure to radiation, what racial makeup is his heritage, what was his gradepoint average in each subject in school, what's his IQ, did he graduate or not, how much schooling did he finish, what's his credit history, what's his tenant history, what's his political history, is he HIV positive or negative, what's his blood type, what's his employment history, is he employed at present or not, what's his present income, where does he live, does he rent or own, if he owns, what's his present mortgage monthly payment and how much has he got left to pay on it, does he drive, is he licensed or not, what's his driving record, is he insured, if so, what kind of insurance does he carry, does he need corrective lenses and if so, what's his vision measure up to, corrected and uncorrected, does he have a mental health history as if so, what is his diagnosis, is he taking any drugs, prescription or recreational, has he ever been bonded, has he ever been refused a security clearance and if so, for what reason, has he ever been convicted of a crime, and if so, misdemeanor or felony, is he single, playing the field, singularly committed to a relataionship, engaged, married, separated, divorced, widowed or remarried, does he have any children that he knows of, if so, does he have custody or visiting rights, where does he live, what's the profile of the neighborhood, does he have a PC or a Mac, what browser does he use, does he primarily log on from home , work, or the library, what's his connection speed, can he recieve his email in html or plain text, is java enabled, does he have cookies enabled,does he have a firewall, who's his ISP, does he have credit and if so, issued by what bank or banks-------
I mean, if you're going to do it, then do it right, by God!
you can't afford to overlook a single detail, now, can you?
These are questions we answer blithely, every day, to complete strangers, so providing them, here, certainly couldn't raise any ordinary objections, now, could it?
Of course not.
Let's have all you've got. It's the modern way of life.
Oh, I almost forgot--shave with an electric or blade?
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Date: Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 11:54:23 (GMT)
From: Farti ji
Email: None
To: janet the snoop
Subject: I can tell you this.He has probably just shit
Message:
himself bigtime.Sorry Cw.
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Date: Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 12:27:02 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Farti ji
Subject: Do it on AG
Message:
Sure, it's hypocritical for you to out him anonymously. But that's something between you and your God, I'd imagine. I say out him for sure somewhere where it's not verbotten. He deserves it. As far as I know he's actually blocked here but because he's so keen and persistent getting past the blocks the FA's have pretty much thrown their hands up. As a result we all suffer his constant meaningless insults. I can't imagine any other fourm, online or in the real world, where his behaviour would be tolerated as long as it has. Can you?
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Date: Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 12:34:56 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Here's a perfect example
Message:
Just below, Cat posts this to Pete Howie:

Fuck it Pete we all did!! Why do you reckon we gave you the board. (PS it was actually a Surfboard but you probably didn't notice)
Funny thing is we still all cross the street to avoid you.

Again, can anyone imagine any other place where this kind of empty, vitriolic junk would be allowed? I can't. But blocking Cat doesn't work. He gets around it everytime, doesn't he? To me it's really simple: if outing him is the thing most likely to make him stop, then do it. He deserves it. Otherwise, he'll continue to use his anonymity, as he has here, as a weapon as well as a shield.

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Date: Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 13:14:43 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Jim
Subject: And the most irritating thing is...
Message:
..Pete does this thoughtful, well-written post - obviously spent a little time on it - and, as has so often happenened whenever Pete (or any Aussie ex) shows up, you get Cat's puerile drivel diverting attention from the topic of the thread. When he's not making implicit threats it's the same tired insults or 'jokes' (which not even the other premies laugh at). Exes respond in kind then cw starts whimpering about being bullied... many here have tried to have a sensible, civilised conversation with him, but invariably give up. Even PatC's thrown in the towel - and that's saying something.

He can't be THAT stupid to imagine he has a shred of crediblity... No, I reckon he knows exactly how he comes across, but doesn't care. So long as he's the focus of attention it feeds some warped attention-seeking need. I mean, what the fuck's a premie doing here, anyway, all hours of the day and night posting away like his sad little life depended on it, yet communicating with no-one?

Yeah out him on AG. And write a letter to EV asking whether they really want Mr _____ _____ representing their Lord, and if not could they please have a quiet word...

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Date: Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 17:38:03 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: What's the big deal? Post his name on AG!
Message:
As Janet pointed out everyone knows everything about us nowadays as soon as you slide you credit card through a scanner.

What gives with all this weird paranoia about respecting anonymity? Anonymity should only be respected if the person is sincere and makes a good case for it. The anonymity of a troll should never be respected.

But do it on AG. Let's keep out standards here high.

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Date: Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 12:31:12 (GMT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I second that
Message:
Apart from being a coward and a bully, the guy needs help.
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Date: Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 10:18:09 (GMT)
From: Brian
Email: brian@ex-premie.org
To: Farti ji
Subject: Grow up
Message:
Should I reveal his identity on this forum or would that be uncool? What do you all think?

We all get a vote on what your personal values will be, huh?

You're asking if you should be able to hide behind the anonymity offered by those who make this forum available, and yet still use this forum to deny someone else the same right?

Grow up. The days of doing what everyone else wants you to do are over the day you stop caring what anyone else but you thinks. That will be the day after you stop asking people what you should do, and start taking responsibility for your words and actions.

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Date: Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 11:51:15 (GMT)
From: Farti ji
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: I just did..I am now 8 foot tall...nt.
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 12:16:05 (GMT)
From: CW
Email: None
To: Farti ji
Subject: Sniff ,Sniff................
Message:
What's that smell? However did you guess? God I love a young enquiring mind! Congratulations! (Try a little charcoal;it may help with your communication)
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Date: Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 18:49:46 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: My final word to you Catweasel
Message:
It's a pity because I like your sense of humor and have had a glimpse of a fun-loving and even affectionate person underneath the alias.

Cat, in a thread below I said to you: ''I'm not interested in your gurujism but I would be very interested to know you. So tell us about yourself sincerely and respectfully or stick around anonymously and be driven insane by other anonymous mindfucks aimed at you.''

You answered: ''Jesus Pat you can be such a moody picture. You know I'm Aussie, babyboomer, male or female(whatever your fantasy), own a string of Racehorses and possibly make a living in the area of LLb. What else do you need?.....a name?what about Bruce or Barry. Shirley or Cheryl?''

This is my final answer to you, CW: I'm not interested in fantasies. I just can't take you seriously. You are wasting your time. I know that does not matter to you because it's all maya anyway and you're immortal and time does not mean anything. I also know that you can spend hours lurking here and talking crap because your life is not important to you. It is only an illusion. You can play mind games with people because you are playing the biggest mind game of all as a Rawat apologist.

You have no values and no respect for any of us. You don't mind lying because you are living a lie. You enjoy being flippant, insincere, empty, superficial and inane because that's what gurujism is all about - the fifth technique, tongue in cheek. You don't mind having multiple personalities because you already have so many dichotomies in you - your mind, your heart, the inner Maharaji, ''that place'' etc etc etc.

Well, I don't have the time to waste. I enjoy and respect most of the people here and have even picked up some decent friendly vibes from you but you are not doing yourself any good by being an anonymouse. The price of hiding your identity is paranoia and defensiveness. Playing mind games always backfires. Please be careful and consider what you are doing to your own integrity. One day you will want respect and may have a hard time getting it.

You know I wish you well but I just can't invest anymore time in illusory creatures like you or your master.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 14, 2001 at 06:27:30 (GMT)
From: CW
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Au revior
Message:
Fine by me Pat. Just one thing. There is just me. Nothing more.
You have the good fortune of having known me and I you. Identity means nothing.You live a million miles from my door. Dont get sucked in by a new bunch of thought police.
You'll change your mind one day Pat..All the best
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Date: Thurs, Jun 14, 2001 at 08:35:29 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: pdconlon@yahoo.com
To: CW
Subject: You haven't known me, Cat
Message:
Thanks for your advice but, if you really knew me, you would know that it is unnecesary. I was born with the thought police patrolling the streets outside my door and have no respect or affection for anyone wielding power of any decription - even the power of love.

And yes, I often change my mind. Anyone who really knew me would know that I know when I'm wrong and am the first to admit that I have made a mistake. It's called learning more, being a student.

If you think I will change my mind and go back to being a lover of Maharaji, you are wrong. However, I could easily, being a man of goodwill, become fond of Prempal Rawat, if and when he decides to post on FV or join a committee that I'm setting up to make the fifth technique illegal.

If you want to get to know me (and I you) email me. Ask around and see how many anonymous posters I have known for months and have never outed. I am a trustworthy person.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 14, 2001 at 09:19:42 (GMT)
From: Catweasel
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: You haven't known me, Cat
Message:
Well not quite what I had in mind Pat. More on the here and now. Your big statement.
I mean we all use to be something , sometime ,somewhere...(Hell ,thats good , I might write a song!!...).I am the last person who would ever attempt to preach or 'guide lost souls' . I leave that to Sandy. See Pat your just bouncing off the fact that I still enjoy K. The stuff you say hasn't come from me. That's not to say I dont like ,enjoy admire and foster the whole nine yards....
But Pat, you wont find me on Buchanan's site pleading for gay rights. I'm not the guy leaping onto the KKK site telling them about the beauty of the African nations. Kinda appeals but...
And I dont come here to take a postion..That's what burns the zealots like Nugent and Jum ... They want sparring partners.
I can slug it out with the best of them. But I tell you one thing Pat. You or any-one else will not draw me on defending M, K or any aspect of such discussion.Sometimes I'm happy to speak about my own understanding. Sometimes. Butone other thing; I'm not a spokesperson for EV, M , K or anything else.
I'm the weasel . The Cat...and thats that........
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Date: Thurs, Jun 14, 2001 at 16:11:16 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Catweasel
Subject: What's left but flaming then?
Message:
And I dont come here to take a postion..[sic]

This is a discussion board where people talk about their opinions. If you're not doing that, what are you doing? Looks like nothing but flaming to me.

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Date: Fri, Jun 15, 2001 at 00:18:01 (GMT)
From: CW
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: What's left but flaming then?
Message:
That is exactly to the point. You are one dimensional and without empathy.You do not take the time to discover who you might be abusing. Doctrinaire, like a pitbull;all you ever want to do is shake the life out of it. You ever thought about learning some genuine people skills?
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Date: Fri, Jun 15, 2001 at 03:58:02 (GMT)
From: Bazza
Email: bshaw8@bellsouth.net
To: CW
Subject: We're all ears mate
Message:
How long have I been offering to chat by email with you? Give it a try, we're not all monsters ya know. Or if you don't want to email, write a short cameo of yourself here - doesn't have to pertain to m&K - just so long as its honest.

What snippets of info have you let out so far?
Let's see...you live in or near melbourne, australia, you own or part own a string of racehorses, work or dabble in law, are involved in Footy somehow.....not much really for 3 years on the forum now is it?

How can Jim or anyone 'take the time to discover who they're abusing' if you don't friggin share anything about yourself?? Nobody knows for sure if you're a bloke or a sheila even!!

S'up to you really, innit?

bazza, you know where to find me.

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Date: Fri, Jun 15, 2001 at 06:30:55 (GMT)
From: CW
Email: None
To: Bazza
Subject: I tell you ;it's the truth!
Message:
OK. Point taken . But here is the rub. Would you, given my history of interaction with Jim and some of his less intelligent fawning admirers be willing to trust the schmo?

PS: I am a hermaphrodite ex-jockey specialising in my new career path of Sports Law. I have offices in Sydney , Melbourne and Brisbane. Fall Bent& How is our trading as name. I know , it seems impossible but if you can just trust me a little....

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Date: Fri, Jun 15, 2001 at 08:41:55 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: Don't you get tired of playing that silly game?
Message:
I've got your number, Pussy. You must be very rich. The rich, as Scott Fitzgerald said, are different. Disdainful is the word that springs to mind. It's a two-edged sword. Don't jeopardize your conscience. It's as eternal as your immortal soul. It's FOREVER. Do you have any trusted friends? No, I don't think so. You all use each other I bet.
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Date: Fri, Jun 15, 2001 at 09:08:24 (GMT)
From: CW
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: NOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooo!!!!!!!!
Message:
Pat,no, no, no. I have many kind friends. Premies and other people.I think many people would judge us wealthy.That doesn't mean we are.
You have to admit though, the idea of a sexually inconvenienced jockey plying his/her trade(Hmmm , what will I be today?) to large supremely fit young atheletes has certain appeal.

Actually I'm 35 years old,statuesque and very blond. My measurements have the boys drooling and I am very femme.My little touche holds no secrets.There's no bumps over my map of Tasmania
Reality is yes , I am successful. Yes ,in in the middleaged bracket and I have had K for a long time. Kid's yes.What else?
See if you can guess? That will be interesting
The One-armed Catweasel

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Date: Fri, Jun 15, 2001 at 16:53:29 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: Well, that did it Weasel, you've cooked your goose
Message:
Your reply was insulting and disdainful. I won't say au revoir. I'll say good bye and good riddance.
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Date: Fri, Jun 15, 2001 at 01:18:50 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: Okay, Cat, so tell me about yourself then
Message:
You said to Jim: ''You do not take the time to discover who you might be abusing.''

I'm all ears to find out who you are.

PS I believe you when you say you are not an EV spokeperson.

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Date: Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 23:29:13 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Good one, Pat
Message:
There are two good reasons for outing this asshole: 1) satisfy a little curiosity; 2) shut him up. The latter, especially, is a worthwhile goal.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 14, 2001 at 00:54:28 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Third reason to out him: maybe we'll like him
Message:
Most people are likeable unless they go out of their way to be obnoxious. Cat's obnoxious antisocial behavior is facilitated by his anonymity. Maybe he really would be a decent person IF WE KNEW WHO THE FUCK HE IS.
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Date: Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 08:57:01 (GMT)
From: Mr. Mind
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Reasons why the few remaining Rawatians stay
Message:
I know it's been pointed out here before but from time to time it needs to be pointed out again. The Guru Maharaj Ji has failed to communicate his message to at least 85-95% of those seeking his truth.

Of those few thousand western cult members remaining, some still believe his original message(see Peace Bomb Satsang). However, I contend that most of those remaining know deep down that it just ain't so.

They remain because:

-They don't know what else to do w/their lives

-They are involved in some new age type business which makes the Rawatians a natural market

-They are really just around for the social scene

-afraid if they lose contact, M will finally reveal something significant(like change the techniques AGAIN)

In a way they are much like the S. F. hippies now middle-aged who are still playing w/ a band in the S.F. bar scene, hoping to finally get that big contract.

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Date: Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 16:05:18 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Mr. Mind
Subject: don't forget pride and ego
Message:
not wanting to admit they have been the fool all these years.
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Date: Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 20:45:20 (GMT)
From: Mr. Mind
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: yes, Tattoo warned us about this
Message:
still my favorite nickname for the slime--saw it in the archives from you over a year ago
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Date: Thurs, Jun 14, 2001 at 05:13:43 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Mr. Mind
Subject: tattoo !!!!!
Message:
instead of 'boss boss da plane da plane...'

it is 'I am the boss I am the boss, give me a plane give me a plane'

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Date: Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 14:00:43 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Mr. Mind
Subject: Reasons why the few remaining Rawatians stay
Message:
Here's what I think. They remain because they think they still don't understand Maharaji's perfect message, so they keep going back to have it clarified. Most premies don't know what to make of Maharaji. Today, they don't believe he's God, (he doesn't like that kind of thinking) but they do believe he's got some kind of pact with perfection, which is really beyond them just what that is, but they figure they'd better 'keep in touch' with Maharaji because that's their only chance of finding out what it is. In the premie's mind, Maharaji is the key that will open the door they want to get through, although none of them have ever gotten through it yet, but they figure one day they will. Hey, Maharaji promises it.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 14, 2001 at 08:48:42 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Holy Cow, Jerry! You put it in a nutshell!
Message:
My god, you captured in one paragraph the complete PWK trip. And everytime they begin thinking that they may have figured it out for themselves he gives them another koan to blow their brains and they're back to square one again wondering exactly what he meant and struggle for weeks over the ''filament'' metaphor until they give up and tell themsleves that he is so faaaaaaaar ahead and waaaaaay beyond them that........but of course, at the same time they have been waiting patiently for him to ''evolve.''

No wonder more and more premies are like Patricia who started a thread above - nuts.

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Date: Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 20:51:04 (GMT)
From: Mr. Mind
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: I had forgotten that one, Jerry
Message:
Yes, that kept me going back and going back to the lotus hooves. I just wasn't willing to admit to myself that it just wasn't gonna happen for me. This was based on the false assumption that it really was happening for others.

No, it wasn't happening for others either. At least beyond their rationalized,wishful thinking based on a sometimes BUzzzzz that was promised to keep getting 'better and better'.

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Date: Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 12:33:55 (GMT)
From: nagual rain
Email: None
To: Mr. Mind
Subject: Reasons why the few remaining Rawatians stay
Message:
perhaps you are right...maybe you and i no longer fit in ..
but there are others who still 'believe' in K and it keeps
them hanging on...and why destroy a child's dream of santa
claus ???? i am symphathetic to quite a few practising premies
and i do not feel inclined to present all that epo stuff to
them...i would destroy a few good friendships coz maharaji and
premies have been family for a lot of us....and i remember
what mata ji once said : the hans family is the light of the
world..stay in touch with the family and you will really be
part of what's happening....well we all were witnesses to the
big family crash and somehow i'm still dreaming of a big family
reunion, all the premies, all the people of the world....
you might say i'm a dreamer but i'm not the only one...
so much for now, still raining, still dreaming..am i getting
a contract now?
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Date: Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 15:11:05 (GMT)
From: wolfie
Email: None
To: nagual rain
Subject: listen to the rythm of the falling rain (nt)
Message:
mmmmm
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Date: Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 04:36:00 (GMT)
From: Peter Howie
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Pia and others and the 'End justifying the means'
Message:
Dear all,

MJ and the cult are definitely believers in the end justifying the means. From my point of view it is direct and incontrovertible that this is their position. I get to it this way.

Pia (and others) talk about disaffected ex-premies or allude to them. Now this site is chockers with disaffected ex-premies. That is what this site is. It is a site where there has been great expression of disaffection with MJ. Along with that disaffection there has been great pain, sadness, guilt, dispiritedness, depression, loss, regrets expressed here. This site is a direct read out of a number of people who have been close to MJ and the cult and who have concluded that it was somewhere between an unpleasant experience and the worst mistake of their's and their families lives. Now that isn't all that is here at this site there are heaps of other things going on - but it is here as well.

Now the way I see it - this is one of the outcomes from MJ. No two ways about it - he is a contributer to this pain and suffereing expressed here. Whether passively or otherwise - he created and contributed to the situations that led to mine and other's pain.

Now to ignore that pain and disafection is to relegate us to a world of 'the end justifies the means'. Why? Because it means that Pia's bliss and the bliss of others has come at a serious cost to you and to me. I don't care whether they talk about us not doing it right (the meditation or satsang or service etc). That is not relevant. Their bliss (such that it is) is built on the pain and suffering of others.

And to rub salt into the wounds (our wounds), their are people (CW and previously Sandy [I may be wrong here]and other premie posters) who post here and who act as though the pain and other feelings are of no consequence - we got it wrong. Well they are of no consequence to them because they are in a paradigm where the end justifies the means. We are all road-kill, detritus on the side of the road of life, not worth worrying over - certainly feeling sorry for now and again perhaps. Holding them up as poor sorry excuses for what happens if you don't do the knowledge right.

MJ's world is built on the bones of our suffering. I keep thinking of how differnt people can marginalise each other - look at any totalitarian state, Nazi Germany, Greece during the military takeover, Chile, Argentina, jails, mental and disability institutions etc etc. Our suffering does not count to MJ - well we know that - but neither does it count to other premies. They deny us our feelings and hence deny our humanity and consequently their own.

Anyway

Cheers for now

Peter Howie

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Date: Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 12:48:15 (GMT)
From: nagual rain
Email: None
To: Peter Howie
Subject: Pia and others and the 'End justifying the means'
Message:
well peter, you may have had devestating experiences with M,
i have not...and to say pia's and other people's bliss is built on your and other exes suffering is quite a bit off the wall..
you cannot hold anyone responsible for your bad luck except
yourself...even non-spiritual shrinks would tell you the same..
maybe i'm from a different planet, but my 30 year story with
M never brought to mind he's the bastard you tend to see in him,
i'm posting here coz i'd like to know how premies can come to
such a conclusion...regards.....
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Date: Thurs, Jun 14, 2001 at 03:06:23 (GMT)
From: Peter Howie
Email: None
To: nagual rain
Subject: Pia and others and the 'End justifying the means'
Message:
Dear Wolfie,

If for one moment you would stop looking at me through the lens you have about knowledge or life or whatever you might catch a glimpse of me and my experience. Are you really interested in seeing where I come from? Well if you are then please do not try and tell me what I can and can't do.

Did you hear(read) what I actually said? Did you for one moment step beyond your own idea and imagine that I am a human being not all that different from others around here. Can you possibly get with the fact that, yes I did have bad experiences largely but not solely due to MJ. I also had other experiences.

If you can for a moment open your eyes and see the broad and simple picture. One outcome from Mj and his work is that there are a large number of poeople that have had very bad experiecnes. There are also a large number that had ho-hum experiecnes and don't care much. And there are some that had a mixture including very good experiences.

Now I am making a proposition that those that have had a good experience (and MJ's money and assets) are able to do so because there has been this suffering.

Organisations that produce alcohol take little or no responsibility for addiction to that substance. Yet the easy availablity of wine and alcohol which I like has this downside - violence, adddiction and heartache. I can't deny it and at times I work to assist those that suffer from it. But it wold be an act of bastardry to wholey and soley blame them the addicts et al. Same goes for cigarettes - the companies - Philip Moris etc spent marketing fortunes giving the idea that it is all about 'freedom of choice' while at the same time trying to develop what they knew to be more addictive products.

So, dear wolfie, I appreciate you responding - but if you want to understand what goes on here you will have to see it through my eyes and not insist that I see it through your eyes. MJ has nothing to do with bad luck - I had fantastic luck as a premie. I have never had a problem in my life with money, friends, worldly goods. My luck is beyond good. But I do recognise that a certain number of people will be hurt and damaged by MJ - not everyone - and that is an unspoken cost - but it is alluded to in Pia's site.

Cheers

Peter Howie

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Date: Thurs, Jun 14, 2001 at 03:09:17 (GMT)
From: Peter Howie
Email: None
To: Peter Howie
Subject: Prev msg to nagual rain not wolfie - apols wolfie
Message:
Sorry Wolfie I got het up and popped your name in. I was writing to nagual rain.

Cheer

Peter

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Date: Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 15:32:29 (GMT)
From: wolfie
Email: None
To: nagual rain
Subject: once he was satguru
Message:
Hi Rainman,

cause he once forced us, to respect him as the Lord of the Univers and now he is just a new age meditation teacher, and cause he builts a firewall around his lifstyle and forces people to lie or keep the truth hidden. Imagine, maybe he wears a golden mask and maybe all this is a fake and a lot of people belief truehearted. So I think, it is better to talk freely about everything and I hope and I risk it, that the real stuff will survive. I have not very much to loose, but maybe M has much to loose and a lot of fancy premies have a lot of pride to loose.

ciao .......yours sincerly wolfie

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Date: Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 10:40:14 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Peter Howie
Subject: kaboom. wow , was that powerful.
Message:
I have never heard anything more damning. thank you.
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Date: Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 08:25:16 (GMT)
From: sivan
Email: sivan28@yahoo.com
To: Peter Howie
Subject: Peter,influence from above
Message:
I think the uncaring attitude is modelled on m. I found prems self-involved- the attitude is protect yourself from the doubting scum.(not all).Even very devoted prems today talk about 'walking over each other to get closer to da mastah. I was surprised how many prem relationships broke up and a prem even said their problem was the competition and jealousy about getting closer to m- that's very sad. But I find exes super helpful and supportive.
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Date: Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 04:06:19 (GMT)
From: Peter Howie
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Fishing for MJ
Message:
Dear Everyone,

I have noticed some of the righteous indignation that has been expressed around MJ and EV et al, not telling the full story. The stuff about videos for new people, videos for half-new people, videos for old new-people, videos for new old-people, videos for martians and their grandmothers etc etc.

Now I can get with that indignation but then my memory begins to trigger and I remember that I too was up to my armpits in exactly that sort of stuff.

It went something like this as I recall:

* MJ is God, grater than God, creater, preserver, destroyer, Vishnu, Shiva and anyone else we could think of. etc
* People getting to MJ is everyone's purpose for all time and forever. Their whole endless lives have been about coming to knowledge - everything before has been a waste and caught up in the cycle of birth and death etc etc.
* Any means justify the ends - that is - as long as they receive knowledge, practice, devote, fall in love etc they will be saved and I will have helped and He will smile on me!!!

So the way I acted this, and saw it enacted by some of you, my fellow conspirators for God(et al), was to play a 'softly softly' approach with people. After all if I tell them the whole truth they will be freaked out and wander many mare lifetimes before coming to his feet - I don't want that on my consciounce when I'm at the pearly gates wanting an entry permit.

So I developed some perculiar 'magical' thinking process (to go along with all the other magical thinking processes) wherebye I was always conscious of how I presented to others not of the cult. A single word here, a sentence there, a drip of satsang there - kind of like taking the 'drip drip' metaphor being used on this site to talk about coming out of Mj - but using it to get others in to the cult. A drip here and a drip there - eventually they will get satsang and come. And after all how lucky are they to meet me, a living devotee of the living lord!!!!!!!! Talk about focusing the mind, talk about concentrating, talk about stress, talk about inner peace, talk about 'practice' - don't talk about the really really important shit until they are really really ready.

This is of course what all cults do. However because I have been on the inside I remember how it all seemed so logical and reasonable at the time. It reminds me of the 'Fishing for Jesus' stuff the Moses whatsisname people used to do. The end justifies the means. That seems to always be the case.

It is analogous to all of us having a facade or private life that we don't wear on our sleave or keep presenting to others - becasue it is personal and most situations don't call for it or want it out there. Only in the case of being in the cult - the facade and private life is highly connected with the deeper (read - more insidious) aspects of MJ.

Anyway enough for now. This got sparked when my aging uncle reminded me of how I used to wear a sandwich board at Avalon ( a beachside community in Sydney, Australia) with the word 'Who is Guru Maharaj Ji?' in big bold letters. This was back in 1974/1974. He used to turn a run or cross the street to avoid me.

Cheers

Peter Howie

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Date: Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 20:58:20 (GMT)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: Peter Howie
Subject: Fishing for MJ
Message:
I can't tell you how much I identify with your portrayal of how to subtly introduce M and K into peoples lives.
A drop of satsang here etc etc.
I saw my life as an opportunity not to be missed, to introduce the 'possibility'. The sad thing is, I think I got quite good at it, because people have recently told me that they had come to accept that whatevever I was into was beneficial...they knew it involved meditation and a guru, and because it seemed to be totally positive and benign, and I appeared to be a totally sane and normal and basically ok human being....with an added extra...contentment....bliss?....I made it my business to be blissful!!! I wanted to be a perfect advertisement!! and they say it had helped them to accept that there were benefits to be had from alternative lifestyles etc etc. Cringe! Cringe!
I really felt I was contributing to 'his' work in this way, and just when I had got a few live fish on the line...all ready to recieve Special K....I woke up!! but they have gone ahead to find spiritual practices they feel comfortable with...and I...am left licking my wounds..but feeling very relieved...and free!
and I don't answer questions any more!!
Kelly
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Date: Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 12:54:02 (GMT)
From: nagual rain
Email: None
To: Peter Howie
Subject: Fishing for MJ
Message:
it's mose david aka mo....i was living in one of their communes
once..when they saw me meditating they knelt around me praying
that jesus wins over satan maharaji....
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Date: Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 15:43:43 (GMT)
From: wolfie
Email: None
To: nagual rain
Subject: you really did some meditation in this lifetime ?
Message:
.......I wonder.........ciao Bello.........raintrops are falling on my head.......there is a rainbow round the corner.....
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Date: Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 08:35:46 (GMT)
From: sivan
Email: sivan28@yahoo.com
To: Peter Howie
Subject: sydney then, Peter?ot
Message:
hi Peter,
I dont remember your name, but do u have a pic.?(see my mail address). I was around from '71/72 at wentworth ave and william street. Did we cross paths? Got k in 78 from julie.
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Date: Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 08:14:19 (GMT)
From: CW
Email: None
To: Peter Howie
Subject: Surfing for MJ
Message:
Fuck it Pete we all did!! Why do you reckon we gave you the board. (PS it was actually a Surfboard but you probably didn't notice)
Funny thing is we still all cross the street to avoid you.
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Date: Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 12:27:18 (GMT)
From: You don't know
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: WE??? Ah! CW's a Queen -nt-
Message:
as well as a clown
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Date: Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 00:25:17 (GMT)
From: Brian
Email: brian@ex-premie.org
To: Everyone
Subject: Maharaji, the Mystical Meditation Master
Message:
For all the official claims that Rawat is nothing more than a guy that's showing people how to meditate, the fact remains that his 'students' are better described as devotees viewing him as having magical abilities.

Here's an excerpt from email to the webmaster today:

If Maharaj Ji isn't who he says he is then how could he have come to me the way he did? I lived in [a remote area] and he came to me in three
dreams. I never had seen or heard of him before, only prayed to god. sad i didn't know christ when he was walking on earth. then three dreams occured. i drew a picture of maharaj ji and that's how i found out about him twenty three years ago.

Someone in an official capacity needs to be contacting these premies and explaining to them that 'Rawat-as-Lord' is a hush-hush subject. Not to be admitted publicly, or in email to the enemy.

How come this woman doesn't have dreams that are more synchronized with Maharaji's current pretenses?

Pia, can you please elaborate on this on your site? Maharaji? EV? CD? XYZ? Anyone??

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Date: Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 12:58:39 (GMT)
From: nagual rain
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: Maharaji, the Mystical Meditation Master
Message:
maharaji is not limited to elan vital , nor to epo nor to
prempal...he IS a mystical magic man...
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Date: Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 18:18:15 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: nagual rain
Subject: and you are under his JUJU spell er smell n/t
Message:
n/t
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Date: Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 15:38:38 (GMT)
From: wolfie
Email: None
To: nagual rain
Subject: and he loves you like Jesus does (nt)
Message:
ammmm
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Date: Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 12:43:00 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: Maharaji, the Mystical Meditation Master
Message:
I had a dream one day of this increadable magical metal which I never heared of and was called Tefal.

I was so excited when I woke up, so I told the wife. She gave me one look and said, oh yeah, Tefal makes saucepans. Well that put a dampper on my enthusiasim. Only How could I have known, I hate saucepan. so there you go. I should by me a Tefal saucepan an pry to it.

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Date: Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 01:42:10 (GMT)
From: Deborha
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: Looks like they're trying to cover all bases...
Message:
It's the old Magical-Three-Times trick..jeesh. How did they let this one get by. These are the type of stories I heard ove 20 yrs. ago that I actually believed. Ugggg...Gag....What a maroon!

Do you think if we dream Three Times that he'll go back to just being a Hindu it will happen! Let's try! Let's send Pia our dreams. In the meanwhile, I'll send her my fantasies.

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Date: Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 04:29:39 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Deborha
Subject: Carlos says he's the Beloved, the Manifest
Message:
Carlos, who wrote a watered-down response at www.it-aint-so.org for public deception, wrote the following industrial-strength church lady post at Life's Great:

'... I believe in the usefulness of a Satguru, and that Maharaji is mine, ...
... Rumi was big on the Lover & the Beloved. & I just don't think we humans are hardwired to fully love a formless entity. That's why, as M put it in updating the story about the devotee who came to Krisna and asked whether it was better to worship the formless form of God or the Manifest, Krishna said ' Both ways will give you liberation, but if you come to me we can play frisbee.'
Where it can go, stoner, IMO, is devotion. I agree with Shri Hans when he said ' the only thing greater than liberation is devotion. The experiance, at its peak levels where all seperation falls away, that's my idea of liberation. And to be there and to be actually doing something with my Beloved, as I've been privileged to have happen with M a few times (1 of the neatest a paint fight, 1 on 1)... I don't feel my wife is my soulmate, my other 1/2. That's my Guru.
I didn't want a Master, either. Not till I found mine. So maybe you have 1, and haven't met him/her yet. Or maybe M is him, but the time hasn't been yet. ...'

I guess that's the kind of 'adulation' that Elan Vital refers to on their web site.

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Date: Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 20:16:04 (GMT)
From: Gregg
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: K vs. Special K
Message:
Knowledge vs. Ketamine: let's put 'em in the ring and see what happens!

Ketamine: Gives user a sense of having a special insight into the workings of the universe.

Knowledge: same.

Ketamine: twenty bucks

Knowledge: free (unless you count in all the plane tickets and donations and Dish fees and darshan gifts...)

Ketamine: often renders one unable to think or walk

Knowledge: one can still walk wonderfully

Ketamine: use depends on a reliable dealer or vet clinic thief

Knowledge: use depends only on the illusion that one has a real Master

Ketamine: endorsed by John Lilly

Knowledge: endorsed by Michael Bolton

Ketamine: illegal

Knowledge: perfectly legal (in most countries)

Ketamine: effects wear off by sunrise

Knowledge: has been known to enthrall users for decades

Ketamine: works automatically upon ingestion

Knowledge: takes constant monitoring of internal state to prevent intellect from examining belief system


All right. Now you can make a fully informed decision!

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Date: Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 20:29:35 (GMT)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: Gregg
Subject: Neither one for me
Message:
No thanks I'm trying to quit!

I swore off Drugs and Alcohol 18 years ago and knowledge just this year, I will pass on both

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Date: Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 17:12:39 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Pia, times up
Message:
It Is So

Payback is a bitch, 'aint' it?

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Date: Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 19:08:32 (GMT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Pia, times up
Message:
ok, I had about 30 tits since this went up, you want to tell me about it.

Oh sorry. Ev monitors are chicken.

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Date: Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 23:46:31 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: salam
Subject: ok this isn't anything goes
Message:
So I'll let that one pass.

Thanks for all the links and info Salam.

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Date: Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 20:17:12 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: salam
Subject: You pornolizing a bit there, Salam?
Message:
Great that you've done this. Good, good work.

A couple of suggestions:

1) Maybe you should emphasize the word 'IS' as in 'It IS So!' to emphasize the point that the phrase is a response to someone saying otherwise.

2) Fatwa is spelt 'fatwa', I think.

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Date: Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 01:39:11 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: You pornolizing a bit there, Salam?
Message:
Do you mean It Is So in the top left hand corner, sheesh that's an image, Will Try.

Don't really know how to spell Fatwah, it's an arabic word and I spelled it as it sounded, though I have changed it. Tits is what you are entitled to after 3 in the morning. Thank for the comments.

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Date: Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 19:19:46 (GMT)
From: such
Email: None
To: salam
Subject: let's do launch!
Message:
- a website was lunch

[er, launched]

but maybe Pee's website will be toast, and it will soon be lunch...

now, would you please pass the watercress sandwiches.

Peace and lentils,

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Date: Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 01:28:57 (GMT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: such
Subject: let's do launch!
Message:
that's what you get when you depend on a spell checkers, you tits for lunch. Will correct it. Sorry. We had 90 tits, I mean hits so far, time to spam the net.
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Date: Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 16:33:11 (GMT)
From: For people with K
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: from Pia's site
Message:
Here's how to get to what the critics REALLY say...

first of all...just above is the Ex-premie.org link, click on it and you can read all of what Michael Dettmers has to say, about the Jagdeo issue, and click on DLM/EV Papers for the history of Divine Light Mission and Elan Vital.


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Date: Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 15:35:17 (GMT)
From: Connie
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: A few months on......
Message:
I have wanted to start a new thread for some time, to try putting into words something of what it’s like a few months on, after leaving a life full of m and k for nearly 28 years. In a post below Gary responded to a comment I made, suggesting it would be good to start a new thread on. Taking the plunge, here goes. I hope there is value in it for some…..

The comment Gary responded to was:

'It's hard to confront what was thought of as a sincere wanting to know God, truth whatever as a motivation driven by emotional/psychological needs.'

When I first left, someone asked me what I was looking for before I came to m. The response I gave was love. Since, I have tried to uncover and understand what that meant. I also wanted to know what it was in me that was attracted to him, not some other, and why I had a need to give myself away to someone I willingly placed above myself.

To do this I had to go back, it seemed, almost to another’s life. I felt so far removed from that young and innocent teen, and in one way totally disconnected to a time before k. Why had I done this? One reason could be that at its root emotional/psychological need (not longing for truth) was the basis of my life with knowledge.

The moment in time when I encountered m and for the first time in my life felt something good (and it seemed so wonderfully good) became almost like the first day of my life. Nothing had much meaning before then, except as vague memories I bundled up neatly as ‘searching’. This is what I had to start unravelling.

Unexpectedly an old friend who was never interested in m/k contacted me and asked how I was. Boy, did he get an earful!

After my deluge, and over time, we settled into back and forth discussions via e-mail. He asked many questions. This was great because I had to not only think carefully about what he was really asking, but also try to articulate clearly in writing my answers to someone not familiar with the cult terminology. Writing, though hard, can be a powerful tool. It demands clarity, potentially forcing you to get your thoughts in order.

In one e-mail, in the middle of a sentence, I blurted out “At the heart of it, I am battling with my own self worth and deserving of care messages and beliefs. This may sound harsh and even paradoxical, but in one way I feel like my very soul has been raped. I had no idea that what I truly believed and thought I experienced as 'God' in reality was hooking into very negative childhood belief systems!” This stopped me in my self composed tracks. Yikes where did THAT come from.

More peeling off the layers…..it was not easy, in fact it was damn hard, to get to that point of recognition, exposure and vulnerability. Yet it was tantalizing in that maybe I had unintentionally uncovered something about myself.

When I first left I went through many intense ups and downs. Even though it was a roller coaster, with some crazy loops and reactions, I still felt that love inside (don’t know how else to put it). It was like a ball started rolling and gathered great momentum. It felt great to break free, finally talk about things and get an actual response other than the usual pwk talk. I felt like many layers were being shed, many babies being thrown out and dived in and threw with glee.

I then hit a wall, the rolling ball and momentum seemed to stop. I felt like I was in limbo, didn’t feel good, didn’t feel bad, didn’t feel anything. There were no babies in sight, I felt wrapped in fog. My brain was like mush. This is how I was when I wrote those words above to my friend. Slowly I saw that I was really frightened of not feeling anything and being stuck. It was outside my comfort zone. If I didn’t feel (especially love), I was nothing, and the thought of being nothing terrified me. This echoed back to a time before k. On the other side of that time was a long held belief that I was, amongst other things, nothing, and therefore not worthy of love.

My involvement with maharaji had only served to reinforce that belief. While I thought being a devotee/student was something, in reality it meant being nothing. He was everything, I was nothing, confirming on one level what I had always deep inside myself believed.

I’m not saying this is how it is for others. I speak only for myself, it’s part of my story. It is also not the total picture, just one aspect.

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Date: Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 08:12:21 (GMT)
From: Gary Epton
Email: epton@magma.ca
To: Connie
Subject: A few months on......
Message:
'It's hard to confront what was thought of as a sincere wanting to know God, truth whatever as a motivation driven by emotional/psychological needs.'

Hi Connie. Yeah, I think that this is a very central issue that some of us need to work through in order to understand how we got here from there. I am not necessarily advocating the idea that wanting to know 'God', or 'truth' or 'what life is all about' is uniformly connected to emotional/psychological needs. However, I think that it is worthy of some deep thoughts.

Like yourself, I came to m during my formative years - barely out of my teens. I had done some extensive world travels for a couple of years and a variety of psyche-delic drugs that exposed me to a world that was definitely not my bedroom in my white, middle-class, suburban home. How many of us can remember back to those shaky years of transition where questioning everything about everything was everything. Thinking back, I know that my 'unusual' experiences separated me from my family and most of my friends because there was no way I could just slide into the status quo. You might say I was looking for the familiar comfort of home, the acceptance and love that I knew as a child but also some answer to the bewildering cosmos as well.

I think that for a certain segment of society, especially the black sheep, the mystics and wanderers, the poets and dreamers, joining a cult with an authority figure was unfortunately just the ticket to provide some sort of 'meaningful' framework to carry on living. An instant community of like-minded square pegs with an inside track on 'the answer'. I can't speak for those middle-aged people who already had it all: family, friends, career, success, and decided all was still empty and meaningless.

God knows there are philosophies and religions for every conceivable viewpoint and perhaps there is in fact a very natural existential yearning for meaning and fulfilment. How connected this yearning for meaning and fulfilment is to emotional/psychological needs is bound to vary greatly for each individual and I find it personally very difficult to ascertain. But like I said earlier, this is a very central question. Is it an extension of exiting from the womb, exiting from the comfort of our families? The result of abandonment, emotional or physical abuse, separation? Does it matter what the cause is, only that we seek?

I guarantee that there are many differing viewpoints from people posting on this site. My personal answer is to continue connecting with the 'love' inside of me. This gives meaning to my friendships, to what I do, to how I live. Maharaji is no longer my guide or my teacher in this respect, however I do credit him with being responsible for showing me the way; Peter Frampton are you out there? I know now that I could have learned of these techniques from a variety of sources, however that was not the case. I do not want to throw the baby out with the bathwater, I want to continue feeling connected to myself and not subservient to a morally bankrupt, money-grubbing, self-centered, m e g a l o m a n i a c.

Anyways, that's my take, love to you, Gary

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Date: Thurs, Jun 14, 2001 at 07:02:38 (GMT)
From: Connie
Email: None
To: Gary Epton
Subject: Baby, bathwater and megalomaniacs
Message:
Thanks Gary for taking the time to respond so eloquently.

Like yourself I didn't want to fit into the status quo, this was certainly emphasized by drugs.

and yes, perhaps there is an innate existential yearning for meaning and fulfillment.

That innateness might not have anything to do with emotional/pyschological needs, but could our reasons for being attracted to a particular way and certain type of 'teacher'?

'Is it an extension of exiting from the womb, exiting from the comfort of our families? The result of abandonment, emotional or physical abuse, separation?'

Interesting point re seeking the security of the womb. Does this mean that we didn't want to grow up and be responsible? I touched on this when I first started posting.

Abandonment, emotional or physical abuse, separation could, for some, have validity if one goes by cycles repeating themselves. I thought every single person mattered. We would be safe, supported and cared for by m and premies/pwk. Breeches of these, initially, would never happen, then, if they did, be addressed. Just as in one's family environment.

'Does it matter what the cause is, only that we seek?'

If the seeking is the real intent, not a mask for other things?

'I do not want to throw the baby out with the bathwater, I want to continue feeling connected to myself and not subservient to a morally bankrupt, money-grubbing, self-centered, m e g a l o m a n i a c.'

Ah the baby and the bathwater. I have heard this so much recently. I deliberately used throwing babies out instead of the bathwater. My ideas and belief systems had solidified into prune-like, twisted lumps from sitting in the same bathwater for yonks. Those were the babies I was talking about. I think now I would like to make a new baby to bathe in fresh bathwater.

Feeling connected to myself. I don't know what this means anymore. Maybe just simply liking oneself? I add my voice to not being subservient to a morally bankrupt, money-grabbing, self-centred, megalomaniac. Well said!

My take on your take, take care.

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Date: Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 19:45:05 (GMT)
From: Moldy Warp
Email: moldy_warp@hotmail.com
To: Connie
Subject: 'Soul rape' - spot on Connie xxx nt.
Message:
x
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Date: Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 19:10:53 (GMT)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: Connie
Subject: cult: m is everything,devotee is speck of dust (nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 18:46:17 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Connie
Subject: GOOD INSIGHTS Connie
Message:
Connie:

Getting this kind of stuff out helps us all. It is like Wildflower said a long time ago -- we end up dealing with all the issues we had BEFORE K and M. As those issues are similar and different for each one of us, it is valuable to me to hear your story, and how you perceive in and how you are dealing with it.

I think that what I call 'love' has a lot of emotional baggage onto it. Then when I don't have the same heightened emotional reaction (often brought on by something we've perceived -- a child, a lover, a tree, a Guru) I can think that I am in limbo. But the only place anything exists, at least in the way we can perceive it, is inside of US.

I prefer being 'awake' to being in 'love.' Present, here with the moment. If you/I can relax into that, everything is right there. All phenomena, all cognition, emotions, you-name-it are just different ways of perceiving the whole shebang.

love, f
'What's love got to do with it?'
-- Tina Turner

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Date: Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 00:07:32 (GMT)
From: Connie
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: Emotional baggage/heightened reaction
Message:
Thanks Francesca

Interesting point re heigthtened reaction to past emotional baggage. Links back to the question I asked myself about my own needs.

I wanted to talk about it from this perspective, away from spiritual stuff. For years everything to do with k/m could not be scrutinized in any other way than it is inside, it feels good, you can't think about it, and he knows better than you. Applying a psychological model to it was taboo. Looking at it like this helped break that taboo. And gave me an insight into myself.

It's hard to know where I stand on some things now. Those big questions I thought I had the answers to about me, life and its' meaning have no frame of reference anymore. Everything came tumbling down a few months ago. Major demolition, I'm just searching through the rubble.

take care.

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Date: Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 04:12:09 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Connie
Subject: You are in a wonderful place
Message:
In many ways, having that all come down is as freeing as it is scary. My own belief system I had cobbled together out of years of meditation, heaven knows what, Tibetan Buddhism and all kinds of wacky magical thinking spent the past 2 years deconstructing. About the time Pat and Chuck's trip with K and M started deconstructing, I was going through my own demolition derby. We had a lot to share!

Then when my dad started dying the sh*t hit the fan. All I can say is -- what a gift! I told my mothers and my sister that we should savor, and not squander what he had given us.

Babs made me brave enough to do this with her sharing. Here's one of the prose things I wrote about my father's death. Hopefully some folks won't hurl at this barenakedness, but I hope you find something here even in one line.

love :f

Thoughts on my father's death

Walking a spiritual path
I've done much of it
to avoid my own suffering

Meditate, ah
I feel better now
Pray and do good works
No guilt

I left organized religion
for the third time, and some
interpret this metamorphosis
as pain, as suffering

I walked through fire
and the fire has set me free
I would be a fool to choose the fire
but I have also been a fool
to run away from it

Someone once said
that pain means you're going
in the wrong direction
I don't believe that crap
anymore

My father gave me a gift
life gave me a bitter fruit
I will not throw away one bite of it
one precious drop of its juices
for any of you

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Date: Thurs, Jun 14, 2001 at 03:39:53 (GMT)
From: Connie
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: I didn't hurl.......
Message:
Thanks for posting the poem and all your responses to me, touched me.

I couldn't post till now as FV was down yesterday.

It was scary (& freeing) in the beginning, not so much now. The dust is settling in places. I see this is a chance to start afresh. Recognizing some fundamental issues, instead of 'meditate, ah I feel better now', is the direction I seem to be heading in. That feels very freeing. I also don't want to substitute one thing for another, so am wary of building on a warped foundation. It was for this reason that I wanted the demolition to be complete.

I valued the whole poem, as it is yours, an expression from your depths. Reading it was like hearing one long, clear note. I feel inadequate to comment on your father's passing, but not to feel the space left by it. Death of someone close to us is a very personal thing.

love to you Francesca.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 14, 2001 at 14:31:15 (GMT)
From: Katie H
Email: None
To: Connie and Francesca
Subject: Didn't hurl either, Francesca - thanks!
Message:
I relate very much to what you are saying in the poem - and appreciate you putting it up here. Thanks to Connie too for expressing yourself so clearly in your posts.

IMHO, pain is a part of life - we can try to avoid it forever (and many of us do), but the avoidance keeps us immature and can make us have a lack of compassion for other people's suffering.

There is a fine line to walk between seeking out pain and trying to avoid pain, but denying or rationalizing reality in either way is destructive.

I'm not expressing what I want to say very well, so hope you can understand.

Love,
Katie H

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Date: Thurs, Jun 14, 2001 at 16:43:58 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Katie H
Subject: I sure do
Message:
Katie:

I read some sense between the lines, and in the lines. The one about denying or avoiding pain leading to immaturity and lack of compassion is so true. If I deny my own pain, I am denying the pain of others. And if I am denying their pain, then it would follow that I wouldn't have any reason to feel compassion. No problem!--wrong!

love, f

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Date: Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 23:58:18 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: Connie
Message:
Great post, Connie. I agree that the most important thing about leaving M is figuring why he looked good in the first place and why we sold ourselves short.

If you don't feel like you are worth much it's easy to give yourself away. It's hard facing what we were prior to M and working with that. Yet we don't have to start completely from scratch. We are so much the wiser for having learned something about simple humanity versus the big hype. We also learned that a narcissistic trip probably isn't the best route to 'God.'

I think we were conditioned to take our emotional temperatures every five seconds, 'Am I feeling love right now? Am I feeling bliss?' If our minds turned to rotten vegetables, it's only because of this conditioned need for love/bliss/emotional happiness all the time. It's hard to come to terms with feeling blah or feeling emptiness, or not feeling blissed out, but to keep on going anyway. To persevere and do what you want to do despite these temporary ups and downs, which are indeed completely normal. Confronting the emptiness is indeed confronting why we felt empty and needy before we found M to sweep our troubles under the carpet. And coming to terms with how to get our needs met through human love and friendship, while finding inner strength. Wanting love from someone who can't give it (Maharaji), and who in fact wants us to be weak, does seem to be a childhood pattern alot of us had to come to terms with.

On another tangent altogether, along the lines of what Francesca was saying, I remember Joe writing about how cheap the word 'love' became in M's little world. Maharaji talked about love in a cheap way. We all threw the word around quite a bit. It's funny how we could say he loved us or we loved him and come to find out it was just words, with no foundation.

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Date: Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 00:17:30 (GMT)
From: Connie
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: Helen
Message:
Thanks

Great line to think about:

'We also learned that a narcissistic trip probably isn't the best route to 'God.'

I will remember that in the future!

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Date: Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 03:12:14 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Connie
Subject: narcissistic spiritual trips
Message:
That was a big lesson for me. I talk about it in my journey story a bit. It helps me to remember I learned valuable lessons from being a premie. Otherwise I feel discouraged, like I wasted precious years! This placed helped me get alot of the anger and resentment out so that I could integrate the good that I got out of it. I hope you are getting the support you need. I can't imagine being a premie for such a long time and then trying to rebuild. Take care.
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Date: Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 17:25:47 (GMT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: Connie
Subject: A few months on......
Message:
This is a beautiful post Connie.
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Date: Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 00:20:18 (GMT)
From: Connie
Email: None
To: salam
Subject: thanks Salam (nt)
Message:
tttt
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Date: Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 10:26:02 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Coincidences
Message:
Shri Hans being the perfect master and therefore all-knowing, he must have known when he chose the name Prem for his youngest son that it is the name of a luncheon meat from Swift.

I always try to back up my facts. Here's some evidence.

By the way, I'm reading for the first time 'The Celestine Prophecy' and find it the most compelling book I've read in a long time. Am on the fourth chapter and invite discussion about the book.

Steve

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Date: Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 02:19:32 (GMT)
From: dv
Email: None
To: Steve Quint
Subject: Coincidences
Message:
I read that book after wondering why it was on the best seller list for so many months. I'm sorry, but that was one of the most pathetic books I've ever read. Full of someone's boring and not very imaginative fantasies and the usual psychobabble goobledygoop. Tis interesting how one's perpective changes- I wonder if I would have liked it when I was enthralled with Castaneda. These days I can't even get through the comics.

Playing catch up with one's life can, sometimes, be a bitch...

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Date: Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 20:46:49 (GMT)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: Steve Quint
Subject: Coincidences/ Very Funny stuff, Thanks Steve (nt)
Message:
n
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Date: Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 16:25:08 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Steve Quint
Subject: Isn't that site funny?
Message:
Steve,

Thanks for the link. Someone showed me that site last year and I loved it.

Steve, no offence but 'The Celestine Prophecy'? Really? I take it you've read 'Jonathan Livingstone Seagull' as well? I mean that's the real shit. :)

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Date: Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 16:49:20 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Jim
Subject: Have You Read The Book?
Message:
Have you read it? If so, why? If not, how can you comment?

Steve

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Date: Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 01:06:35 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Steve Quint
Subject: I've looked at it -- sheer hokum all over it
Message:
Steve,

When the book came out I looked through it in a bookstore once. Maybe spent 15 or 20 minutes checking it out. Nothing but an unoriginal rehash of new age fantasies. That's more than enough for me. Yes, Steve, the pornolizer will take you much closer to the truth. You just have to have an open heart.

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Date: Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 19:55:35 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Jim
Subject: And By The Way
Message:
If you never did anything else good in your life, bless you for showing me Pornolize. I need the laughs dearly.

Steve

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Date: Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 19:59:41 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Everyone
Subject: We Probably All Need A Few Laughs
Message:
Forum V: The screwing Ex-Premie 'Butplug' Forum

Steve 'Muffdiver' Quint -:-Coincidences -:-

Shri 'Big Cock' Fucks being the sucking perfect master and therefore all-smooching, he must have known when he chose the fucking name Prem for his youngest son that it is the assfucking name of a ballbusting luncheon meat from Swift.
I gangbangs try to back up my bangs.Here's some evidence.

By the sucking way, I'm fistfucking for the squirting first time 'The 'Plugin' Celestine Prophecy' and find it the pecking most sucking book I've read in a screwing long time. Am on the unclefucking fourth chapter and invite discussion about the wad pulling book.

Steve

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Date: Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 19:38:48 (GMT)
From: Moldy Warp
Email: None
To: Steve Quint
Subject: I've read it Steve - it's bollocks nt
Message:
xx
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Date: Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 13:47:30 (GMT)
From: Moldy Warp
Email: moldy_warp@hotmail.com
To: Steve Quint
Subject: The 9 Insights of the Celestine Prophecy...
Message:
and beyond....
The author James Redfield's words of wisdom - from his 'The Tenth Insight: An Experiential Guide'- BTW James... good idea that... why stop at the Ninth Insight... lets have another one...in another book. of course.. and the 'experiential guides'... and hey... why not a pocket guide (perfect stocking filler fodder...for that weekend New-ager who still holds to that old Newtonian worldview on weekdays ...oh, didn't realise, you've already done one of those:

>
In the Tenth Insight, our character sees himself in another lifetime as a monk in thirteenth-century France. He understands that in that lifetime, he came into possession of the Insights and copied them in order to preserve them

He went on to mention how other world leaders such as Eleanor Roosevelt, Franklin Roosevelt, Winston Churchill, and Dwight Eisenhower are still working with groups of souls in the Afterlife as well as inspiring the consciousness of Earthly humans involved in peace work.

Another plane that people encountered was a conceptual realm of ideas that was calm and pleasant - perhaps even filled with singing and celestial music. Some people report that as they move 'upward' in the planes of existence, their body changes to become lighter and clearer.

>
The guy's a genius.

>
It's natural to resist change. Some of us are fluctuating wildly between trusting the process for a while, and then doubting ourselves and the spiritual point of view. We go back to wanting control and hang on to what is familiar, even though it isn't working very well. Many of us are still asking: 'I know I have a spiritual journey, but what can I do today'
>
Hey James ... I know what I am going to do today... I am gonna use your book as toilet roll.

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Date: Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 13:37:44 (GMT)
From: nagual rain
Email: None
To: everyone
Subject: Coincidences
Message:
thanks for all the responses to my post...sorry but i am not hanging out all the time on the web to answer right away..
i am just wondering..watching M and his way of going about
spreading K...watching EPO..what about a registered trademark ?
cyberchurch of gurubusters?? you see you are only effective
when people are into the internet..most of my friends aren't..
they could care less..so your message is not received by them..
do you think all that computerbusiness is good? thousands,
millions of jobs have been destroyed by computers..one computer
does stuff that usually 20 people used to earn a living by..
as long as we are living in a competitive capitalist system,
computers are destructive and detrimental to the real needs
of people....so is the internet...are you aware that only
about 3 or 4% of the world's population has internet access??
so whom are you reaching???these 3 or 4%...just some thoughts..
and steve, i read celestine's prophecy quite a while ago...
i think it's terrible new h bullshit ( regards to wolfie who
first coined that way of spelling new age )....
oh yes, what do i mean by the bastards on high..it's almost
common knowledge that around 260 individuals on the face of
this planet own more than half of the total money around, can
you imagine 5 billion people own one half, 260 or the other half,
they are the ones controling all the banks and governments..
they lay the guidelines....they are the agents of ...??????
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Date: Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 21:32:52 (GMT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: nagual rain
Subject: Coincidences -- Why is EV, and BigHead afraid? huh
Message:
Let me tell you - the only reason why you think premies are not on line and that people (thinking/searching) is because you are in a box. Really you are. The BigHead is your whole life and all statistics are irrelevant to you --they are currently outside your RANGE of Reality.

However, thanks for bringing that point up! Why? Because I went to see councillors and Religious outreach at the University to tell them about the COVERT activities and mind-abducting strategies regarding cults. Guess What? They want me to set up an outreach program that will include a web-site, guess speakers, group therapy, and watch-dog. The councillors want a copy of 'How to know if you're in Cult' check list. They want to include web links on the page and post news (like France dish on EV/Prem). The councillors want to know what 'Buzz words' they should be listening for when they speak to students (who by the way are all ages)... I rec'd tremendous response and concern regarding this matter. I am also speaking to newspapers, magazines, and interest groups about this. You are only partly right, NR...I have just begun...Don't Worry! We'll get more media to validate your hunches.

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Date: Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 18:54:23 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: nagual rain
Subject: Most people with money have computers
Message:
Rawat doesn't care about the rest of them. And they have no money to finance his operations or get his video feeds either.

Rawat's people are all over the web. So are many of the people who post here. So we have a valuable medium here. And from the reports I've heard in bits and pieces, and from the people who are leaving due to reading some of the posts here it's doing enough good to justify the effort.

But why are you here, and what the h#ll are you trying to say? And what the h#ll do you mean by your wacky name? O lover of openness and truth?

Namaste, f

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Date: Tues, Jun 12, 2001 at 10:56:59 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: and we who dont, have WebTV! heh heh
Message:
or the library, the campus computer center, a friends house, the slip a dollar in the slot for five minutes public terminals......
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Date: Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 18:44:05 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: nagual rain
Subject: Coincidences - a change of subject is this?
Message:
you say of the posters on EPO (at least I presume you mean us - you included, of course):

'you are only effective when people are into the internet..most of my friends aren't.. they could care less..so your message is not received by them..'

When you take time to sit down and THINK about what you've said, you might like to reflect on the fact that two of the preferred media for spreading Maharaji's propaganda are none other than video and satellite. The web comes a close third.

Am I right?

(OK - so when was the last time EV published on paper?)


A logical person would then have to ask:

'Why do EV and the Maha target so few people?'

Of course, ostriches like yourself aren't renowned for excercising logic, but if they were, your answer would be .... ???

???

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Date: Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 16:06:11 (GMT)
From: Bob
Email: None
To: nagual rain
Subject: Computers and internet
Message:
Yeah, yeah. They are diabolic, satanic tools. In the good old days we made our own stone axes.
not surprised that most premies don't have a computer. Education and information never was looked high at in the cult. rawat cannot stop progress, he can only delay it for a short time, for a small group of people. The proof is that EV and premies like Pia are active on line. We will be looking at the demise of the cult with amusement.
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Date: Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 15:24:54 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: nagual rain
Subject: Coincidences
Message:
nagual:

Well, if the majority of the world's wealth is controlled by only 260 people it cuts down on the number of folks you'll need to convince of your ideas.

--Scott 'wondering why you're bothering with us' T.

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Date: Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 14:43:39 (GMT)
From: Gregg
Email: None
To: nagual rain
Subject: nagual vs. tonal
Message:
So you have time to speculate about the evils of the Internet (BTW, no way does one computer put twenty people out of work!) but you don't have time to respond to any of the thoughtful responses to your post below?

Here's another statistic for you: approximately 10% of the premies that post here ever engage in an exchange of any sort about their postings.

It's hit and run.

Thinking hurts, huh.

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