Forum V: Archive
Compiled: Tues, Jul 10, 2001 at 04:47:33 (GMT)
From: Jun 29, 2001 To: Jul 08, 2001 Page: 5 Of: 5


Francesca -:- PIA recycles! -:- Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 15:40:52 (GMT)

Steve Quint -:- Happy Canada Day (ot) -:- Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 13:07:44 (GMT)
__ Steve 'Butplug' Quint -:- Happy 'Bastard' Canada Day (ot) -:- Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 15:13:44 (GMT)

Nigel -:- On hating Maharaji (and Phil Collins) -:- Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 12:57:47 (GMT)
__ Richard -:- Phil Collins and Celine Dion to perform together -:- Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 04:21:00 (GMT)
__ PatC -:- Anyone who hates Andrew Lloyd Webber is a friend -:- Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 19:09:33 (GMT)
__ __ Moldy Warp -:- Personally I'd like to smear Andrew Lloyd Webber -:- Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 22:34:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ PatC -:- Eat Andrew Lloyd Webber? Yuk! OT -:- Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 23:28:19 (GMT)
__ Cynthia -:- On hating Maharaji -:- Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 19:07:23 (GMT)
__ __ Mr. W -:- On hating Maharaji -:- Tues, Jul 03, 2001 at 07:26:26 (GMT)
__ Kelly -:- On hating Maharaji (and Phil Collins) -:- Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 16:34:34 (GMT)
__ __ PatC -:- great post, Kelly. Encore! -:- Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 19:33:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ Kelly -:- Who're you callin a lotus eater? -:- Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 21:10:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Kelly -:- I just read the poem! -:- Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 22:06:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Oh my god! You were the hoover lady at the PoP? -:- Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 23:49:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Kelly -:- Yeah, just another poor sucker! -:- Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 20:27:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Yeah, just another poor sucker! Hoovers do suck -:- Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 21:15:26 (GMT)
__ Steve Quint -:- Phil Collins Synchronicity -:- Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 15:07:09 (GMT)
__ Nigel -:- PS: ATTENTION CHARLES [G******] - PLEASE READ! -:- Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 14:43:41 (GMT)
__ __ Sir Dave -:- Also to him whose name cannot be spoken -:- Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 15:36:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ salam -:- you mean Mr.Charles -:- Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 16:27:57 (GMT)
__ Voyeur -:- On hating Maharaji (and Phil Collins) -:- Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 14:40:16 (GMT)

Sir Dave -:- A new guessing game on AG -:- Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 11:06:50 (GMT)
__ JohnT -:- just a guess -:- Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 12:35:31 (GMT)
__ __ Sir Dave -:- The name that cannot be spoken -:- Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 15:27:22 (GMT)

Tim Matheson -:- It's working, LORD MAHARAJI -:- Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 08:21:26 (GMT)

Daneane -:- Brian, Katie, Jean-Michel and even Jim -:- Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 00:26:12 (GMT)
__ Stonor -:- Well said, Daneane! And wrt Katie and Brian ... -:- Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 01:04:27 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- Gag me with a fucking spoon! (nt) -:- Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 02:37:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ Daneane -:- Okay, I'll be there in two days.(nt) -:- Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 02:40:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- cute :) -:- Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 02:46:20 (GMT)
__ __ Bin Liner -:- Agree completely . Pat Dorrity . nt -:- Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 01:19:45 (GMT)

JHB -:- Appreciation and Gratitude -:- Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 00:16:54 (GMT)
__ PatC -:- Appreciation and Gratitude -:- Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 00:58:38 (GMT)
__ __ JHB -:- Oops! Forgot to thank the composer! (nt) -:- Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 14:50:31 (GMT)

Scot Jamieson -:- Goodbye for now. -:- Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 23:40:57 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- Goodbye for now. -:- Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 18:48:42 (GMT)
__ Salam -:- Have a happy life -:- Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 15:04:09 (GMT)
__ PatC -:- Wash that man right out of your hair and send him -:- Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 00:56:07 (GMT)

Bazza -:- See ya -:- Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 20:15:49 (GMT)
__ Carl -:- C'mon Bazza, don't be pouty, We all benefit from -:- Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 15:19:11 (GMT)
__ JohnT -:- Yeah. -:- Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 12:52:45 (GMT)
__ Francesca -:- See you on Anything Goes -:- Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 04:27:21 (GMT)
__ Salam -:- where you going to bum -:- Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 03:52:15 (GMT)
__ __ Salam -:- typos suck: where you going to you bum? -:- Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 03:55:21 (GMT)
__ Bin Liner -:- Divide and Rule -:- Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 00:38:03 (GMT)
__ __ Francesca -:- His game has just begun -:- Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 06:47:32 (GMT)
__ Cynthia -:- See ya...I hope you stop in from time to time.... -:- Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 23:38:34 (GMT)
__ PatC -:- Okay so you need time to lick the wounds you got -:- Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 21:17:10 (GMT)
__ __ Selene -:- democratic ? ok if you say so -:- Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 21:22:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ PatC -:- democratic? Yes, as I just said to Bazza via email -:- Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 23:25:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Do you really think there's a liability issue? -:- Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 23:28:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- I don't know the legal stuff, Jim -:- Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 23:49:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- PS I don't mean to brush you off but -:- Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 00:02:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- No, Jim, I see it as taking the moral high ground -:- Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 23:43:53 (GMT)
__ Sir Dave -:- See ya later alligator and -:- Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 20:34:06 (GMT)
__ Katie -:- That's not what happened (but I am sorry) -:- Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 20:31:39 (GMT)
__ Selene -:- I answered you below. Please read it before you go -:- Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 20:26:23 (GMT)

Jean-Michel -:- Surreal add paid by EV in French newspaper today -:- Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 18:34:46 (GMT)
__ Jerry -:- Maharaji's changing tactics -:- Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 22:33:30 (GMT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- Here's EV's communique (in French) -:- Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 21:33:30 (GMT)
__ __ Madame Disculta -:- Wha-a-a-a-at? -:- Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 14:07:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- I don't know how they have the guts to publish -:- Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 14:13:47 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- Here's the Babe Fish translation -:- Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 22:31:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Cost of EV's publicity in Le Monde: dollar 70,000 -:- Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 12:46:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ bill-they cant sue -:- protesters handing out leaflets at events...nt -:- Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 04:49:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ Steve Quint -:- Vital Dash Or -:- Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 07:59:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ Vital Dash -:- thanks Jim........nt -:- Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 07:50:31 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- That really is fucking amazing -:- Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 21:20:22 (GMT)
__ __ Bob -:- yes you say it!! -:- Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 03:14:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Concentrate on what's important -:- Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 04:53:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ PatC -:- You also don't live in the Land of Litigation -:- Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 05:26:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ JohnT -:- You also don't live in the Land of Litigation -:- Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 10:10:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Yes, I love Oscar Wilde's ''De Profundis'' NT -:- Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 19:38:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- PS Charles Protests Anonymous Lurkers on AG -:- Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 09:22:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Francesca -:- I am starting to love Anything Goes -:- Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 15:54:50 (GMT)
__ such -:- premies bought planes,EVI put titles w/ Seva, and -:- Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 19:23:33 (GMT)

Joe -:- Summer Reading (OT) -:- Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 15:37:07 (GMT)
__ Lesley -:- Summer Reading (OT) -:- Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 20:31:52 (GMT)
__ clarence clear -:- Summer Reading (OT) -:- Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 15:58:37 (GMT)

Timmi -:- thank you -:- Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 15:33:16 (GMT)

Steve Quint -:- Real Men Cry Sometimes -:- Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 12:35:50 (GMT)
__ Francesca -:- Thanks for your post -:- Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 06:05:57 (GMT)
__ __ Steve Quint -:- Thanks, Sweetheart -:- Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 07:47:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ Francesca -:- You can call me nice names anytime -:- Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 15:31:46 (GMT)
__ Abi -:- Real Men Cry Sometimes -:- Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 12:46:50 (GMT)
__ __ mercedes -:- Real Men Cry Sometimes -:- Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 16:37:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ suchabanana -:- sometimes tears are the sacraments of our humanity -:- Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 19:01:33 (GMT)
__ __ Steve Quint -:- Thanks For Your Support, Abi nt -:- Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 16:08:42 (GMT)

Sir Dave -:- My answer to you, Deborah -:- Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 10:27:15 (GMT)

Abi -:- Some questions for Richard the second -:- Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 09:39:06 (GMT)
__ Richard II -:- Some questions for Richard the second -:- Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 20:24:13 (GMT)
__ __ Moley -:- Richard II - you call this shit 'answers'??? -:- Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 22:27:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ Richard II -:- Shit ??? -:- Tues, Jul 03, 2001 at 00:04:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ JohnT -:- Shit. -:- Tues, Jul 03, 2001 at 12:05:24 (GMT)
__ Abi -:- oh, what is the point... -:- Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 00:50:20 (GMT)
__ __ JohnT -:- what is the point of dealing with ugliness ? -:- Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 08:49:36 (GMT)

suchabanana -:- For Katie:There was a time when meadow,grove (on t -:- Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 09:12:15 (GMT)
__ Natalie Wood [channeled] -:- Splendour in the grass -:- Tues, Jul 03, 2001 at 07:49:43 (GMT)
__ Gina -:- Should say this whole thread is so moving. nt -:- Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 13:26:21 (GMT)
__ Gina -:- Thanks, Such, for posting this beautiful poem. nt -:- Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 12:54:14 (GMT)
__ Cynthia -:- God, Such, That's been my favorite poem since... -:- Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 22:24:56 (GMT)
__ Katie H -:- Thank you Such! -:- Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 14:05:13 (GMT)
__ __ Katie -:- P.S. Well, really just this verse -:- Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 14:50:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ such -:- unless ye be like little children... lost youth... -:- Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 18:42:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ JohnT -:- youth is wasted on the young -:- Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 10:45:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ such -:- social mores,concepts,conformity,tedious toil,regi -:- Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 18:50:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Katie -:- Another poem -:- Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 19:52:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Gina -:- Thanks, Katie, for posting these words. nt -:- Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 12:56:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Francesca -:- Yeah, 4 quartets was some of the most ... -:- Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 02:55:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Thanks Such and Katie - music to my ears -:- Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 20:06:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Thanks, me too, a great reprieve....n/t -:- Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 22:26:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Cynthia (ot) -:- Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 01:15:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Katie, email is above...and -:- Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 17:23:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Thanks - and thanks for asking -:- Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 17:41:56 (GMT)

Chuck Sprague -:- The Questions that supposedly drive us crazy... -:- Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 08:34:25 (GMT)
__ Francesca -:- I'm glad you did that -:- Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 06:14:22 (GMT)
__ Richard -:- Excellent reply Chuck -:- Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 00:01:19 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- Great post, Chuck NT -:- Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 22:05:34 (GMT)
__ PatC -:- Holy Cow! You must have cooked this one up -:- Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 08:45:09 (GMT)

cq -:- 'Be aware every moment' was enough of a mind-f**k -:- Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 18:08:40 (GMT)
__ Mr Williams -:- 'Be aware every moment' was enough of a mind-f**k -:- Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 18:46:14 (GMT)
__ __ Salam -:- Mr Williams -:- Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 19:42:02 (GMT)
__ __ Way -:- Care to contribute?... -:- Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 19:41:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ Way -:- Mr. Williams- Care to Contribute? is for you nt -:- Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 19:47:53 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- 'Be aware every moment' was enough of a mind-f**k -:- Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 19:36:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ PatC -:- Ooo, you're a cool customer, cq. Brilliant! -:- Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 08:15:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ Francesca -:- **BEST OF FORUM*** cq succinct and well put n/t -:- Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 23:04:34 (GMT)
__ Stonor -:- Enjoy Life, cq!!! -:- Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 18:27:15 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- you think YOU need help?!!! -:- Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 12:45:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ Stonor -:- Spazz church of macho irony?I've found my calling! -:- Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 14:11:00 (GMT)

janet -:- got an email from an admirer today about us: -:- Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 17:36:28 (GMT)
__ Selene -:- it's free speech if you say the right thing -:- Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 17:49:37 (GMT)
__ __ salam -:- got to be happy hour........nt -:- Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 18:26:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ Selene -:- uh it's 11:30 a.m. here -:- Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 18:28:13 (GMT)

Way -:- The Official Premie Belief System -:- Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 15:09:56 (GMT)
__ Bryn -:- That which you are looking for is inside. -:- Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 23:12:56 (GMT)
__ __ Bryn -:- Happiness is not a consequence. -:- Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 23:40:13 (GMT)
__ PatC -:- #25 Morals are for people without bliss -:- Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 18:59:27 (GMT)
__ Bryn -:- Knowlege is THE experience within. nt -:- Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 13:16:42 (GMT)
__ __ Bryn -:- No such thing as re-incarnation. also... -:- Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 13:40:05 (GMT)
__ Nigel -:- The techniques only work when U receive K nt -:- Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 09:39:39 (GMT)
__ such -:- Yaweh! (nt -:- Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 08:17:01 (GMT)
__ Bin Liner -:- 25 . He'll hold my hand beyond the grave nt. -:- Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 23:24:24 (GMT)
__ Richard -:- 'It's my own personal experience.' = #18? -:- Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 19:08:09 (GMT)
__ janet -:- 'we are superior to everyone else on earth...' -:- Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 18:18:15 (GMT)
__ Nigel -:- maharaji is 'the mirror'. -:- Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 17:36:09 (GMT)
__ Selene -:- anything I do in defense of M is OK -:- Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 16:34:36 (GMT)
__ Richard -:- #16 third 'P' is really a 'G' = Gratitude = cash -:- Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 16:28:20 (GMT)
__ __ Mercedes -:- #16 third 'P' is Progress I think n/t -:- Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 18:45:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ Richard -:- #16 third 'P' is Progress - thanks Mercedes -:- Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 18:59:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Way -:- Yes, Mercedes, thanks -:- Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 19:30:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Mercedes -:- so much of it... -:- Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 16:23:16 (GMT)
__ Sandy -:- Amendment to #11 -:- Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 16:08:21 (GMT)
__ __ Cynthia -:- Amendment to #16 -:- Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 19:15:29 (GMT)
__ Stonor -:- Did they change the third 'p' to an 's'? -:- Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 15:37:06 (GMT)
__ Disculta -:- Regarding number 14: NOTBROKEN! -:- Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 15:28:20 (GMT)
__ __ Jerry -:- Number 14 is wrong -:- Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 06:03:56 (GMT)
__ __ Chuck Sprague -:- M reinforces ''People are Nuts'' syndrome... -:- Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 18:22:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ Francesca -:- Yes, yes, I would nod my head knowingly -:- Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 23:13:15 (GMT)
__ __ Wildflower -:- Right you are! -:- Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 17:35:06 (GMT)
__ __ michael donner -:- belief system -:- Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 16:34:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ Another one -:- belief system -:- Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 18:11:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Michael Wood -:- How about me AO, should I be trusted? /nt -:- Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 18:20:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Michael the Archangel -:- How about me AO, should I be trusted? /nt -:- Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 19:17:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Is that Michael Wood as in Annie Wood? NT -:- Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 23:33:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Ian Dury -:- Or Michael Wood, M's personal videographer? (nt) -:- Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 16:27:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Bob -:- ANYTHING that.. -:- Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 13:59:44 (GMT)
__ __ Way -:- Disculta - you warm my heart -:- Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 15:46:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Hang on a minute -:- Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 16:07:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ PatC -:- and His Holeyness is completely sincere -:- Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 19:12:20 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- Excellent summary, Way NT -:- Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 15:20:47 (GMT)
__ __ PatC -:- But the bottom line is that you cannot be saved -:- Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 08:49:04 (GMT)

Tim Matheson -:- Welcome, Mr. Movement -:- Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 09:55:29 (GMT)

Hadijah -:- Blow Job -:- Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 08:01:32 (GMT)
__ wolfie -:- in Malaga once, we had it left to right n/t -:- Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 10:29:35 (GMT)
__ such -:- rt to left darshan? rt hand to rt ear dynamics (nt -:- Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 08:25:19 (GMT)


Date: Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 15:40:52 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: PIA recycles!
Message:
Sorry, this is so silly. Before I went to bed last night I saw a cloth bag I got at a trade show, and it said in screaming yellow letters (well, at least at that hour of night they SCREAMED to me) 'PIA RECYCLES.' Before I could think 'what the fakk??' I remembered:

Prison Industry Authority

Now that is a great analogy.

Good morning! At least for me,

--f

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Date: Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 13:07:44 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Happy Canada Day (ot)
Message:
Happy Canada Day to all Canadaians and wannabes.

In honour of Canada's 134th birthday, here are the words to our national anthem:

Blame Canada

Sheila: Time's have changed
Our kids are kids are getting worse
They wont obey their parents
They just want to fart and curse!
Sharon: Should we blame the government?
Liane: Or blame society?
Dads: Or should we blame the images on TV?
Sheila: No, blame Canada
Everyone: Blame Canada
Sheila: With all their beady little eyes
And flappin heads so full of lies
Everyone: Blame Canada
Blame Canada
Sheila: We need to form a full assault
Everyone: It's Canadas fault!
Sharon: Don't blame me
For my son Stan
He saw the darn cartoon
And now he's off to join the Klan!
Liane: And my boy Eric once
Had my picture on his shelf
But now when I see him he tells me to fuck myself!
Sheila: Well, blame Canada
Everyone: Blame Canada
It seems that everythings gone wrong
Since Canada came along
Everyone: Blame Canada
Blame Canada
Some Guy: There not even a real country anyway
Ms. McCormick: My son could've been a doctor or a lawyer it's true
Instead he burned up like a piggy on a barbecue
Everyone: Should we blame the matches?
Should we blame the fire?
Or the doctors who allowed him to expire?
Sheila: Heck no!
Everyone: Blame Canada
Blame Canada
Sheila: With all their hockey hubbabaloo
Liane: And that bitch Anne Murray too
Everyone: Blame Canada
Shame on Canada
The smut we must stop
The trash we must smash
Laughter and fun
must all be undone
We must blame them and cause a fuss
Before someone thinks of blaming uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuus.

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Date: Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 15:13:44 (GMT)
From: Steve 'Butplug' Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Happy 'Bastard' Canada Day (ot)
Message:
Happy 'Suck my tits dry' Canada Day to all Cocksucks and smacks.
In honour of Canada's 134th birthday, here are the thrusting deep throats to our national anthem:

Blame 'Asshole' Canada

Sheila: Time's have wad pulled
Our plows are licks are licking worse
They wont obey their pecks
They just want to fart and curse!
Sharon: Should we blame the thrusting government?
Liane: Or blame society?
Raids: Or should we blame the assfucking pecks on TV?
Sheila: No, blame Canada
Everyone: Blame 'Fat Ass' Canada
Sheila: With all their beady little pecks
And flappin licks so full of raids
Everyone: Blame 'Anal' Canada
Blame 'Fat Ass' Canada
Sheila: We need to form a jerking full assault
Everyone: It's Shafts fault!
Sharon: Don't blame me
For my son Stan
He saw the licking darn cartoon
And now he's off to join the raunching Klan!
Liane: And my boy Eric once
Had my picture on his shelf
But now when I see him he fists me to fuck myself!
Sheila: Well, blame Canada
Everyone: Blame 'Anal' Canada
It fucks that sex fights gone wrong
Since 'Long Finger' Canada came along
Everyone: Blame 'Give it to me' Canada
Blame 'Omar Pussy' Canada
Some 'Anal' Guy: There not even a felching real country anyway
Ms. McCormick: My son could've been a fucking doctor or a muff sniffing lawyer it's true
Instead he motherfucked up like a fistfucking piggy on a muff sniffing barbecue
Everyone: Should we blame the squirting fingerfucks?
Should we blame the banging fire?
Or the shafting asslicks who fisted him to expire?
Sheila: Heck no!
Everyone: Blame 'Omar Pussy' Canada
Blame 'Omar Pussy' Canada
Sheila: With all their hockey hubbabaloo
Liane: And that bitch Anne 'Fuck me for a Buck' Murray too
Everyone: Blame 'Mistress Shiva' Canada
Shame on Canada
The blowing smut we must stop
The fucking trash we must smash
Laughter and fun
must all be undone
We must blame them and cause a raiding raids
Before someone asslicks of raiding uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuus.

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Date: Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 12:57:47 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Everyone
Subject: On hating Maharaji (and Phil Collins)
Message:
It is amusing to find myself suddenly member of a ‘hate club’, especially when the term is applied by somebody as verbally aggressive towards the mentally ill as Charles Unmentionable. Funny thing is, I am trying to remember the times I have ever said ‘I hate Maharaji’, and apart from of necessity typing it in the present sentence, I don’t believe I have once used that phrase.

And even if I felt like saying ‘I hate Maharaji’ (oops, that’s twice now!) what could it possibly mean..?

I have frequently said ‘I hate Phil Collins’ (or ‘I loathe Andrew Lloyd Webber’, or ‘I detest Celine Dion’). When referring to Mr Collins, what I mean is I cannot abide his musical vapidity, his insincerity, his self-pitying lyrics, his affected ‘ordinary-blokeishness’…etc. But the truth is, I don’t know Phil Collins. By all accounts he is a marvellous, charming, decent human being who never once microwaved a guinea-pig (though, admittedly, he did dump his wife by fax...). Perhaps, if we ever met, we would hit it off like long-lost pals. Who knows?

But I hate Phil Collins’ public persona, his stage act - and this persona/stage act is all he has permitted us to see.

When Collins, a middle-aged multi-millionaire with houses dotted around the world bleats about of the plight of the homeless (Another fine day in Paradise), or plays revolutionary warrior (‘I won’t be coming home tonight / My generation’s going to set it right’ – from Land of Confusion), you have to laugh at the transparent absurdity and take it with a barrowload of salt. It is a role-playing game. A moment’s wish-fulfilment escapism for artist and fan alike

But back to ‘I hate Maharaji’… (strike three and out!?)

I never met Prempal Rawat either, so how can I hate him? I can’t, in that sense. But I similarly detest his public persona/stage act. His pretence of being and knowing more than he does, the content and inconsistencies of his public pronouncements over many years suggesting a confused, and confusing, individual with no moral or natural philosophy of his own; no reason given (beyond ‘divine inheritance’) for his specialness or right to teach others or ‘give Knowledge’.

I hate too what that pretence does to others. Pompous old poseur that he is, we at least know Phil Collins stakes no claim on people’s souls (thank fuck! – imagine kissing his feet). But folk who believed Mr Rawat when he promised to take them ‘from death to immortality’, who frequently turned over trust funds and abandoned careers or loved ones on the strength of that promise. Yes, I truly, totally, unambiguously hate that sort of deception and exploitation of vulnerable minds.

(I similarly have never met Jonathan Cainer, but his bogus cosmic insight has made him Fleet Street’s richest journalist; his premium rate horoscope phone-lines as much a racket to fleece the gullible as that of any guru-cult.)

If there is kindly, private off-stage Rawat hidden behind that persona who anonymously donates billions to alleviating world hunger, it is a person I have never met nor heard about. Well-placed witnesses from Mishler to Dettmers suggest a vain, self-serving narcissist who lives his ‘Master’ stage persona, and demands those round him engage in similar role-play, indulging his every need.

I would not care for such company, but I don’t hate Maharaji. I truly don’t know him.

I just hate what he does for a living.

The question of ‘hatred’ is a red-herring, anyway - used by Pia and others to deflect attention from Maharaji’s words and actions. With or without hating him, the simple fact that I was suckered for too long by his self-proclaimed divinity entitles me to speak out, not least to warn others. If we do so without lying, Charles Unmentionable can insult us as much as he likes, but I, for one, will just carry on doing it. The independent-minded reader of the various cult-related websites will have no difficulty in determining exactly which site serves an irrational hatred and which encourages the sharing of new-found, non-indoctrinated personal values, not to mention honest, open discussion. In this Charles underestimates the public’s intelligence.

It is likewise meaningless for a premie to say ‘I love Maharaji’ (and Cliff Richard?) – and for similar reasons - but perhaps that is for another thread.

.


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Date: Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 04:21:00 (GMT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Phil Collins and Celine Dion to perform together
Message:
...in an Andrew Lloyd Weber musical production of 'SatGuru Has Come'. Lyrics by Jonathan Cainer. Musical score by Keith Richard. Theme song, consisting of a 3 note synthesizer phrase repeated ad nauseum, by Prem Rawat. With 'Cats' closing, it is an idea who's time has come. In the ALW version, the young GMJ flies a magic carpet to London where he is showered with rose petals. . . .
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Date: Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 19:09:33 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Anyone who hates Andrew Lloyd Webber is a friend
Message:
of mine. Great post Nigel as usual. But at least Webber does not tell me never to doubt his purity or that only he can save me from .....what? Come to think of it - just what is it that Rev Rawat saves us from? Oh right the river of bondage to mayonnaise or some such Hindu concept.
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Date: Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 22:34:03 (GMT)
From: Moldy Warp
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Personally I'd like to smear Andrew Lloyd Webber
Message:
all over in eggless mayonnaise and eat him with a nice Chianti...
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Date: Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 23:28:19 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Moldy Warp
Subject: Eat Andrew Lloyd Webber? Yuk! OT
Message:
We can't keep meeting with OTs like this. The man is as edible as a dirty dish rag and each of his musicals has only one melody repeated ad nauseam.
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Date: Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 19:07:23 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: On hating Maharaji
Message:
Hi Nigel,

Thanks Nigel. Your post reminded me of a post I made upon returning to the forum (don't remember if it was F4 or F5).

I entitled it: ''Why I hate Maharaji.'' I listed at least twelve reasons in that post and the responses I received from the exes here stunned me. I thought, mistakenly that I would receive a postive response from ex-premies here. WRONG!

The exes responded with quite a few chastising posts to me about broadbrushing m with hate filled remarks. I know now that what I was doing was trying to gain acceptance from the exes, because I
did have a shaky couple of starts here.

What did I learn? That the purpose of this site is not to be hateful. I also learned that I don't hate Maharaji but I was experiencing at the time quite a bit of anger at him and it felt like hate.

That was quite a learning experience for me. Hate is a strong negative emotion, or state of being. That's not where or how I want to live and I don't live inside of the anger as much, anymore. I still feel some anger toward M, but I don't feel hate. Shit, I don't even hate my own bio-father anymore.
That's a big leap!

My hate post and the responses taught me so much about the kindness, humanity, intelligence, and sincerity of the exes who are here. Since then I can now distinguish between those negative emotions which pop up in myself and others here in reaction to what happened to us in the cult, as well as the insidious nature of maharaji's con which has affected so many of us individually.

Thanks again for your post. This is no hate site; the ex-premies here taught me that and I am grateful to all who set me straight.

Love,
Cynthia

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Date: Tues, Jul 03, 2001 at 07:26:26 (GMT)
From: Mr. W
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: On hating Maharaji
Message:
Hi Cynthia; I honor your decision to not poison your life with hate; it's hard----really hard---for someone who loves M to read this forum, because there are SO many hateful things said about him.

I can't even guess at the motivations people have for saying seemingly hateful, rancorous, personally insulting things. Try to put yourself in my place: wading throught the fuck yous, fuck offs, assholes, scumbags, etc. etc. and not having at least some credence for thinking this is a hate site; when one makes personally insulting remarks constantly about someone's physique, skin color, 'skin problems,' what is to keep a person from comparing that to calling somebody a nigger, or a big-nosed kike, or a fucking wog, or a cunt? Check it out. A ticket to dismissal from serious 'journalistic' or cultural consideration , if you ask me.
Good night, my dear.

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Date: Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 16:34:34 (GMT)
From: Kelly
Email: karen@ringrose.org.uk
To: Nigel
Subject: On hating Maharaji (and Phil Collins)
Message:
Well said Nigel! I haven’t been around the forum much lately, I’ve been getting on with my life! Also, the weather has been too good and we get precious little of that in this part of the world don’t we? I also needed to take a break, as I’m sure we all do from time to time. This place can be exhausting and depressing as well as inspiring and illuminating.

I have been thinking a lot lately about how I got sucked into this silly superficial cult in the first place. Today, I watched (for the second time,) “The Lord of the Universe”, the film made about the events surrounding “Millenium” in 1973 at the Houston Astrodome. All the totally fanatical attitudes and beliefs of the time are recorded there in embarrassing detail. That was me! I believed all that “God is here in human form to establish Peace on Earth” stuff, I really did! I think this should be essential viewing for every aspirant to understand the “roots” of this cult, and who this “Master” is, and where he came from..

There’s a theory that we all get the guru we deserve and that the needs of the student creates the master!...So, superficial students get a superficial master? Maybe, maybe that’s fair........I certainly accepted the first Lord of the Universe I ever met! It felt good, it looked good, it tasted good and I swallowed it...hook, line and sinker, and, having ingested it into my system, have lived with it, more or less, on and off, for the last thirty years!

Since the spell wore off, nearly 8 months ago , I have realised how superficial I was. I mean, why didn’t I even listen to my own questions? Why didn’t I look further, deeper? Why did I accept this simplistic nonsense? I suppose the only answer that comes to mind is because I really truly believed that I was dealing with the Messiah, the Perfect Master of our time, and because what he says is so simple you can’t really argue with it. The self evident truths he spouts are pure “motherhood” statements. Like “What you are looking for is within” etc.

In recent years, my own inner voice got louder and louder, I got more and more distressed by the sheer banality of his talks, and more and more confused by the contradictions between the “walk” and the “talk”. He still constantly refers to himself as THE master, not A master, and says that” I am not the first to talk about these things” etc. He could say “ I am not the only one”, but by saying “I am not the first” and that “many saints and Masters have said this before me” he aligns himself with Jesus, Buddha, Krishna, etc. The more I really listened to what he was saying , and the more I saw of him on and off stage, the less I liked him.

What a superficial show...He’s no Master, he’s not even a teacher. He has no involvement with his students. His poor desperate students cling to the most insubstantial evidence that he cares about them and is personally looking after their needs. I know, I did it for years...Just keep watching the videos, your questions will be answered...Oh yes! He was talking directly to me! And darshan, of course. He occasionally granted me the ultimate blessing to kiss his feet! Sheesh, it’s so pathetic. I don’t hate him, but I am beginning to despise him.

All the best to all you heroes who keep battling on in the fight against ignorance and injustice and especially to Abi, a real warrior for the truth. John T, you have said some good things today. Thanks.
Love to all my friends out there in cyberspace,
Kelly (Karen Ringrose)

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Date: Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 19:33:20 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Kelly
Subject: great post, Kelly. Encore!
Message:
More, more. You speak so clearly for me, also a longterm lotus-eater. (I never thought the poem, ''The Lotus Eaters,'' would ever mean anything else.)
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Date: Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 21:10:53 (GMT)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Who're you callin a lotus eater?
Message:
You and I must have known each other in the old days, I was around Dulwich area, Palace of Peace, 1973-5. I lived in a WPC house and lived to serve!!. My service was setting up and decorating the stage every night. I was a flower girl! When 'HE' came, we used to go to Covent Garden early in the morning and buy up all the flowers. For the rest of the time I worked and handed over my wages like all the good ashram premies...I had some good jobs! I was a tea lady in a brewery! I was a playleader in a Brixton adventure playground..looking after four year old latch key kids who smoked and drank and swore, and attacked me regularly by covering me with paint from the play-hut! I was a care assistant at Lewisham Institute for mentally impaired adults..that was really interesting!. Later when I lived at the residence at Reigate and was doing what I was good at, making props and models for film and TV, I was earning a fortune and probably keeping the entire WPC Mafia in the style to which they had become accustomed. Lotus eater? Me? I don't think so. However, I did get to know some pretty revolting pond life!
But every night at the Palace of Peace, I hoovered the stage. Maybe you saw me?
Love Kelly
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Date: Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 22:06:29 (GMT)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: I just read the poem!
Message:
Song of the Lotus-Eaters, by Lord Tennyson.
I have to confess I never read it before..an exerpt..

'Death is the end of life; ah, why
Should life all labour be?
Let us alone. Time driveth onward fast,
Let us alone. What is it that will last?
All things are taken from us, and become
Portions and parcels of the dreadful Past.
Let us alone. What pleasure can we have
To war with evil? Is there any peace
In ever climbing up the climbing wave?
All things have rest, and ripen toward the grave
In silence; ripen fall and cease;
Give us long rest or death, dark death, or dreamful ease.

It's a helluva pome! I get your point!
Thanks PatC
Kelly

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Date: Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 23:49:24 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Kelly
Subject: Oh my god! You were the hoover lady at the PoP?
Message:
I probably never talked to you as I was a very timid little fag in those days and your service as high holy hoover lady probably gave you such exalted status in my eyes that you probably gave me darshan. Well, that was easy in those days. I once got darshan from Ashokanand's shoes when he took them off in the wings before going on stage to give his sermon. Sorry I missed you while you posting this. I had to go to work and now you're probably in bed. But as I said to you before - I hope to meet you one day.
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Date: Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 20:27:09 (GMT)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Yeah, just another poor sucker!
Message:
Good to talk to you now, even in this unsynchronised fashion! I'm sure we'll meet one day soon. take care.
Love Kelly
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Date: Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 21:15:26 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Kelly
Subject: Yeah, just another poor sucker! Hoovers do suck
Message:
Over here they call them vacuum cleaners. I love your posts and feel that you're helping me to clean up a lot of dirt from the vacuum known as Maharajism - okay I got my metaphors mixed up.
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Date: Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 15:07:09 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Phil Collins Synchronicity
Message:
I just read this thread and now the radio is putting Phil in my head.
Don't synchronize with the dead.
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Date: Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 14:43:41 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Nigel
Subject: PS: ATTENTION CHARLES [G******] - PLEASE READ!
Message:
As JohnT notes lower down, you have used a 'Journeys' post from this site in breech of EPO's copyright, and without the author's consent. Moreover, you have mocked the author for her assumed mental illness. I am no lawyer, but some would say you are on very thin ice here, in more ways than one. Perhaps you should seek legal advice?

Anyway, should you so wish, please feel free to use my own Journeys post. Provided you publish it unamended and unabridged you may also apply your considerable critical faculties to diagnose my psychiatric state.

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Date: Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 15:36:47 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Also to him whose name cannot be spoken
Message:
You may also use my journey entry, unabridged, of course. It's not much I know but it was a very heartfelt poem I wrote that night. It says it all, I think. And it's written from the heart that you value so much.

Why not include Anth Ginn's journey too. Mind you, he might just be a bit mentally touched so maybe not. (Joking)

.. Dave

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Date: Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 16:27:57 (GMT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: you mean Mr.Charles
Message:
The lawyer that plays in a band with a picture of him on your forum.
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Date: Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 14:40:16 (GMT)
From: Voyeur
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: On hating Maharaji (and Phil Collins)
Message:
I can't stand Phil Collins either for the same reasons - but I didn't know anyone else who felt the same!
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Date: Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 11:06:50 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: A new guessing game on AG
Message:
Just take a walk on down to The ANYTHING GOES Forum to see if you can guess who.
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Date: Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 12:35:31 (GMT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: just a guess
Message:
Could this be the man?
http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/Delta/2639/CG.htm
Seems like a nice guy. Shame about his Master.

JohnT
- never a premie

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Date: Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 15:27:22 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: JohnT
Subject: The name that cannot be spoken
Message:
That's right JohnT. I put a link to your site from the AG links page, by the way.
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Date: Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 08:21:26 (GMT)
From: Tim Matheson
Email: None
To: My LORD MAHARAJI
Subject: It's working, LORD MAHARAJI
Message:
You are doing it. Just look at the in-fighting here. This will surely silence them once and for all.

YOU are brilliant! Sacrifice a premie here, a premie there for the greater good, i.e. YOUR GOOD. and that ad in the French newspaper was mind boggling. I really appreciated that line about 'use of a private rented plane'.

YOU have decided to take the offense. This again is brilliant for it will deflect attention from your seemingly sordid personal life which of course,is none of our business. Even if it were our business, we are not and never will be ashamed of YOU.

Forever worshipping YOU,

Tim

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Date: Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 00:26:12 (GMT)
From: Daneane
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Brian, Katie, Jean-Michel and even Jim
Message:
Been reading some badgering going on amongst some of the people who keep this place thriving. It seems to me, of all the stuff on EPO, the Forum is the least continuously solid source for information and cautions about the cult.

The Forum in all its difficulties (along with its undeniable advantages) could not be such a concern without Brian and Katie having given the time, energy and put up the defense to keep EPO up and running. I'd like to voice my opinion here not to forget that crucial element and thank both of them.

J-M's solid information and never-ending page updates and creations keeps EPO dynamic, often justifying its continued existence despite high levels of suckitude at times erupting at the Forum.

But it can't be denied either that Jim's questioning and making some waves doesn't keep everyone on their toes.

I watch all these elements, grateful to the people who keep up the energy to provide the information of EPO to suckers like I once was. I just hope to call attention to the bottom line that despite differences of opinion, as a whole all your contributions are essential. So thanks to all of you and please try not to kill one another.

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Date: Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 01:04:27 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Daneane
Subject: Well said, Daneane! And wrt Katie and Brian ...
Message:
I'd like to add that I am disappointed that many posters seem to have forgotten that completely apart from EPO on top of their 'day jobs', this last year has been a particular challenge to both Katie and Brian - both have had serious health crises, for example. Never have they not been here for EPO; posters, and even FAs can come and go as they please, but Brian must always be ready to trouble shoot, and Katie has always gone out of her way, both on and off the forum, to help things go as smoothly as possible for everyone.

Does anyone here think they have any time, money or energy to deal with ANYthing more? So many who have posted below don't seem to be able to imagine what it must be like to be in Katie and Brian's position. It's not simply a question of rights or legality - it's a question of additional potential hassles of ANY kind. Look at the hassle they've been having to go through over this issue alone for the last few days already. A real nice relaxing weekend - not.

Katie and Brian, I have so much respect for your efforts, compassion and dedication to helping premies, ex-premies, aspirants and those who have had any relationship with premies.
You are two of the most wonderful people I have ever had the privilege to get to know. I hope others appreciate how much you have given of not only your time and expertise, but of yourselves.

Thank you, and much love to you both.

Anna

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Date: Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 02:37:31 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: Gag me with a fucking spoon! (nt)
Message:
kkkkkkk
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Date: Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 02:40:00 (GMT)
From: Daneane
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Okay, I'll be there in two days.(nt)
Message:
bb
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Date: Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 02:46:20 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Daneane
Subject: cute :)
Message:
kkkk
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Date: Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 01:19:45 (GMT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: Agree completely . Pat Dorrity . nt
Message:
a
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Date: Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 00:16:54 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Appreciation and Gratitude
Message:
I've just returned from watching an outdoor performance of the opera Rigoletto in a natural ampitheatre set between old castle ruins and a small lake, in beautiful park land in Cesis, a town in the north of Latvia. The weather was perfect, we got there early to claim our spot on the grass, about 50 feet from the stage just to the left of the expensive seats ($8-20, compared with the $3 we paid). The quality of the production and the singing was very high. One small amusing moment was when some birds, starlings I think, were competing with a duet on stage, and, for a while, winning!

Anyway, while I was sitting there, looking around at the environment, I got to thinking about this word, appreciation, which Maharaji is trying to hijack. I really appreciated the situation I was in. I also felt gratitude to those people who organised this event, those people long dead who built the castle, and laid out the grounds, those who have, and currently maintain the grounds, and my friend who invited me, and my other friends who helped make the evening such a delight.

I have reclaimed the words appreciation and gratitude. People have been feeling these feelings for a million years without some materialistic guru telling them how to feel.

John the doesn't thank Maharaji for anything any more.

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Date: Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 00:58:38 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Appreciation and Gratitude
Message:
Thank you for reclaiming those words, John. That was the first opera I ever saw as a movie when I was in high school and I've been hooked ever since. Thank you, Verdi.
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Date: Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 14:50:31 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Oops! Forgot to thank the composer! (nt)
Message:
lala
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Date: Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 23:40:57 (GMT)
From: Scot Jamieson
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Goodbye for now.
Message:

It makes me slightly sad to want to say goodbye to this site, but for a while at least, I am going to try to say goodbye. The reason is, I hope to try to stop thinking about Maharaji either positively OR negatively. Yeah, I know it likely won’t work. But I’m going to give it a try. And my success or failure in putting him behind me I’ll probably return to report upon later this year, or perhaps after many years.

I doubt it’ll be that long, actually. I have SO enjoyed speaking freely about M, and it is doing me a lot of, a hard-to-calculate-amount of, good. Still, very often, I do not like reading the words I’ve written here, though I mean them when I write them. I tend to self dramatize regrettably easily.

And my eyes, already weak, are truly suffering from all the screen reading. And so many posters can pretty well speak for me. Chuck Sprague’s great post just a couple below is only one more instance of the many excellent minds at work here.

Thanks to everyone on the site, especially our hosts Katie and Brian, and to those with whom I had exchanges - Jim, of course, to whom I apologize for being so slow that our threads were repeatedly going inactive, and all the others. I better NOT say goodbye, but “see you later.”

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Date: Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 18:48:42 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Scot Jamieson
Subject: Goodbye for now.
Message:
Scot,

You'll never stop thinking about Maharaji. Look at all the time and energy you gve him. However, you well might be able to set him aside to a much greater extent than you could if you kept posting here. It's a bit of a trade-off. I'd love to stay in touch with you in any event. You guys should come out here some time. Seriously, that'd be great.

All the best to both of you.

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Date: Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 15:04:09 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Scot Jamieson
Subject: Have a happy life
Message:
and remember, rawatsuck because it-IS-so.
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Date: Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 00:56:07 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Scot Jamieson
Subject: Wash that man right out of your hair and send him
Message:
on his way. Good move Scot. Good luck and have lots of un and be happy, healthy and rich.
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Date: Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 20:15:49 (GMT)
From: Bazza
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: See ya
Message:
When premies get treated preferentially over exes, I know I'm in the wrong place and its time to leave. Take care everyone,

love bazza

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Date: Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 15:19:11 (GMT)
From: Carl
Email: None
To: Bazza
Subject: C'mon Bazza, don't be pouty, We all benefit from
Message:
the ongoing exchanges, as far-flung as they go sometimes. Your contributions are valuable, and make me think and laugh and think again. I hope you won't bail out.
Best regards,
C.
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Date: Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 12:52:45 (GMT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: Bazza
Subject: Yeah.
Message:
Bazza,

I'm a stranger here, I've only ever met the exes who came to the recent London Latvian, and I'm quite shy with strangers so I didn't mingle much and left early.

For what it's worth, I've formed a favourable impression of you personally, and I sense there is more going on over this Charles Glasser non-issue than appears on the surface. Like, Katie swore at you. That's un-fuckin-precedented! (well, maybe not quite).

Anyway, I do hope that a principled and detailed written policy can be contrived. I've read all the postings still extant and it does seem to me that the snafu could have been avoided, even though the issues can get complicated. No-one has an identical value system to anyone else (as far as I can tell), but we can agree on general principles much more easily than when handling specific incidents. Charles Glasser behaved badly (albeit from what he sees as the best of motives). I think we can all see that here -- the question is how to handle that kind of stuff.

I don't think the it's my ball and fuck off if you don't like it principle is quite the best, myself, and I hope to see you around again.

JohnT
- never a premie

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Date: Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 04:27:21 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Bazza
Subject: See you on Anything Goes
Message:
But I hope you come here too. I enjoy your posts. Don't deprive me, you bum.

love, f

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Date: Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 03:52:15 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Bazza
Subject: where you going to bum
Message:
come back here. Can't belive you being such a baby. No one is giving any preferential treatement to premies. I thought you are smart enough to understand what Brian and Katie are trying to say.

you have to understand, that this site is hosted on Brian's own server, at his home, on the top floor. while were are sitting and having a nice or bad time he is legally responsible to what goes on.

Imagine youeself in his shoes for a minute. Here you going on a nice weekend barbeque and coming home to find a letter from some dick head dumb ass lawyer in your letter box asking you to appear in court because some other boofhead [say me] had a go at the dumb ass lawyer. you won't be happy would you?

If it is me, I know what I will do, pull the blug and that is all there is to it.

I think if anything, B&K have a lot of tollerance to what is happening and without this forum, you yourself will still be licking some dumb guru ass. So how about some consideration, yar?

I may or may not agree with the way they do things, but tough tities. That is the way things are. Don't blame them as being sympathizers with premies, that is far from the truth.

I think someone said it [Brain?] our fight is not with individual premies, it's with Sat Guru Dev Maharaj Ji the lord of the universe. So go and kick his ass.

Salam

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Date: Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 03:55:21 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: typos suck: where you going to you bum?
Message:
bummer
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Date: Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 00:38:03 (GMT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: Bazza
Subject: Divide and Rule
Message:

Bang . You're out of the game.

Who wants you out ?

Yourself , or someone else ?

The war of the words was started by the people who set up & maintain this site , & it's been very successful.

Now the opposition is firing back for the 1st time & everyone here is disagreeing about what to do about it .
The rawatists just love that , rubbing their hands with glee they are .

Play the long game , that's what R does , he'll fight like a rat in a corner when the noose tightens round his wallet , & HIS GAME HAS JUST BEGUN .

Pat Dorrity

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Date: Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 06:47:32 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Bin Liner
Subject: His game has just begun
Message:
Lila!

briliant, Pat! I thought the same thing. They love getting our nickers in a twist. This Forum is a potent force because people have to (generally) stay on topic. A lot goes on in other places too, but the focus here is on point. A shame to dissipate it in scattering at the sound of a fencing lawyer's saber rattling, but I can certainly understand how Brian feels and would not want to be the brunt of Charles' harassment.

love, f

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Date: Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 23:38:34 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Bazza
Subject: See ya...I hope you stop in from time to time....
Message:
Dear Bazza,

I will miss you very much. I've come to learn that all's not fair in love and war. And life, and especially cyberlife.

You've brought a vibrance to this cyberlife, Bazza, and I hope you come back.

I stated that I agree with Jim, Joe and you about the issue of posting Charles's name here. Yet, I still understand the position that Katie and Brian are in as webmasters of this site. There may be legal liabilities, I don't know. I think maybe they are trying to take the high road in lieu of all the backlash sites, too. I see both sides of the issue and respect all who have argued and discussed it.

Pat stated it well when he said that despite the persistent arguments about what constitutes ''outing'' someone, and the forum guidelines, you still are free here to speak your mind.

Maybe it's time for a break for you. Please don't forget those of us, and I'm sure that includes Katie and Brian, who appreciate your presence here.

So take a break. Believe me, no one here will really takes precedence over exes. I think the hinky thing here was that the FA on duty crossed a boundry by posting the original information. I also think that someone else would certainly have figured out who this Charles is and the result would be the same. I am outraged at the site Charles put up. But it's cyberspace...and it's much more powerful than I know.

I've gone away mad from this forum a few times. It's your right as a free-thinking man. I don't want you to forget that many of us here are fond of you and will miss your contributions and perspective.

Be well,
Love,
Cynthia

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Date: Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 21:17:10 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Bazza
Subject: Okay so you need time to lick the wounds you got
Message:
in this heated DEMOCRATIC debate. Democracy is not tidy. At least we've got it which premies do not have. As I said in another post - if I had posted the info and it had been deleted I would have screamed bloody murder but then I would also have to have in the end conceded that Brian has the right to enforce standards of behavior on a site which he regards as his property. (I had a similar argument with Joe about revealing the name of my restaurant.)

Anyway this argument about outing is one issue and you are entitled to voice your opinion as much as any. The other issue is that an FA should not have posted that stuff because it directly contradicts Brian's standards. Hopefully the debate will help to clarify written policies and make sure Brian and the FAs cooperate and communicate better. The outing issue probably won't be resolved. There are too many stubborn arguments on both sides.

Basically I don't care which way it ends up because it does not affect me as I am not anonymous. Let the anonymice stick up for themselves. I hope you are able to see that there are two issues and concede that it was an error for that particular FA to post that stuff but that you and I as non-FAs are allowed to voice any opinion that we wish and take the consequences too.

Au revoir but not goodbye.

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Date: Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 21:22:57 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: democratic ? ok if you say so
Message:
I won't elaborate, I would think Brian and Katie's posts today speak for themselves.
I'm sure no one will any tears of grief but I too have got to get away from this at least for a while.
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Date: Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 23:25:47 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: democratic? Yes, as I just said to Bazza via email
Message:
Misunderstandings are part of debate and understanding comes from misunderstanding. If you mean that K and B are being too proprietary about the Forum - well I would be too if my name were on the site that I rented from the server for liabiltiy reasons. The issue of a public forum being owned has been debated here before and the only way to resolve it is if no one owns it. Result - chaos. There may be another solution yet but tempers are too hot right now to discuss that.
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Date: Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 23:28:48 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Do you really think there's a liability issue?
Message:
Pat,

I can't imagine any liability issue here at all. If you can, kindly explain because I just don't see it.

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Date: Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 23:49:23 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I don't know the legal stuff, Jim
Message:
I answered you bellow too. To me it's the ownership issue.
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Date: Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 00:02:29 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: PS I don't mean to brush you off but
Message:
I need to go and chop vegetables for the fruits and nuts of SF. Also I'll email you or maybe phone you tomorrow.
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Date: Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 23:43:53 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: No, Jim, I see it as taking the moral high ground
Message:
Hi Jim,

If you read my post below you already know I agree with you about Charles.

I don't know if there's a liability issue here but I think that Katie and Brian are trying to show that this isn't a hate site by taking their stand.

It's a charged and emotional issue right now. I think I'm going to go pack a few more things and try to sort it all out.

In the meantime, I hope everyone is remembering that they have breath inside of them, by his grace, and if not for the grace of goomraji, we wouldn't have a clue about life!!!!

DON'T pounce on me--it's a joke!

Love,
Cynthia

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Date: Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 20:34:06 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Bazza
Subject: See ya later alligator and
Message:
in the meantime, don't forget The ANYTHING GOES Forum where being a duck is not a disadvantage and where no censorship of any kind takes place.

No posts have ever been removed and until they disappear off the edge of the world, they are available for all to see.

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Date: Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 20:31:39 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Bazza
Subject: That's not what happened (but I am sorry)
Message:
I have only said 'fuck' to two, maybe three other people on this forum (Jack Tuff, Jim, and possibly Cerise). Yes, I am angry, and I think legitimately (although I know you disagree). But I hope we can discuss this via e-mail after things cool down, and possibly come to some sort of resolution.

Bazza, Brian and I really appreciate all the things you have done to help - don't think we don't.

Take care,
Katei

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Date: Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 20:26:23 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Bazza
Subject: I answered you below. Please read it before you go
Message:
I hope you stay on AG.
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Date: Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 18:34:46 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Surreal add paid by EV in French newspaper today
Message:
Page 13 in 'Le Monde' dated Sunday July 1st - Monday July 2nd.

Whole page paid by EV, in answer to the campaign and defamations published by a part of the French media last may.

I'll have to scan the article and translate this for you (unless it's already on some EV website, I'm going to check first.

The usual EV PR blabla.

Last sentence is quite funny (the rest too), where they say :
M doesn't teach a religion or a philosophy or a lifestyle, but a simple way to feel the inner satisfaction ........ ..... when EV is registerted as a church in the US and several other countries !!!!!!

I understand that EV IS a religion, but doesn't *teach* a religion !!!! What's wrong here Mr. PR ?????

Another funny thing: During the past 12 years, M travelled about 3.5 millions kilometers aboard private rented airplanes .......

I'm not hallucinating, this is the REAL newspaper I have beside me now.

Le Monde is one of the most read and serious daily newspapers in France. I should check some other newspapers maybe, like Le Figaro.

One page in such a newspaper is EXTREMELY costly !!!!!

I must be hallucinating.

What's most ironic, is that page 12 (vis à vis) is dedicated to the horrible events in Soweto 25 years ago, where the police shot school children. Do you remember that Rajaji's satsang (or was it Bhole's) when he said that M is going to bring peace in South Africa ?

Not such claims anymore I guess. Are these premies at peace actually to start such a campaign against the media in France ?

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Date: Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 22:33:30 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Maharaji's changing tactics
Message:
I remember Maharaji stating, way back when, perhaps back in the seventies, that if a lion bites off your hand, you don't go back to the lion and ask him to sew it back on. This was in direct referrence to the press. I guess he's changed his mind since. Is a 'true' master allowed to do this sort of thing? What's the rules, anybody know? I need clarity and Maharaji's gone and confused me again. No, that's not right. Maharaji's the master of clarity. It's just my mind that doesn't understand. Listen to your heart, Jerry, your heart has the answer, just listen to your heart.... breathe out, breathe in....
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Date: Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 21:33:30 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Here's EV's communique (in French)
Message:
Élan Vital

Une mise au point de l’association élan Vital

Le congrès organisé par Elan Vital les 26 et 27 mai à Versailles a donné lieu à des attaques diffamatoires de la part d'une partie de la presse écrite et audiovisuelle, pour lesquelles l'association se réserve de demander réparation.

L'association Elan Vital, qui soutient l'enseignement de Maharaji en France, tient à faire la mise au point suivante:

1/ Élan Vital est répertorié dans le rapport parlementaire 'Guyard' de janvier 1996 - sans avoir été entendue ni avoir pu bénéficier d'un débat contradictoire – parmi 172 mouvements suspectés d'être sectaires. La Commission a retenu ces mouvements sur la base de critères non reconnus
universellement par les experts et dans lesquels Elan Vital ne se reconnaît pas. Des précédents ont déjà démontré que certains groupes cités dans ce rapport y figuraient par erreur. Malheureusement, il est impossible de modifier un rapport lorsqu'il a déjà été officiellement adopté par le Parlement.

2/ Élan Vital tient à souligner que des associations poursuivant le même but, dans d'autres pays, jouissent d'une reconnaissance gouvernementale. C'est le cas en Europe où plusieurs se sont vues accorder le statut de fondation ou sont reconnues d'utilité publique: au Royaume-Uni, en Espagne, en Slovénie. En Belgique, l'association a reçu une distinction officielle pour sa bonne gestion juridique et financière.

3/ Maharaji enseigne depuis 1966. Depuis cette date, il a donné 2 500 conférences dans plus de 250 villes et dans 50 pays. Au cours des douze dernières années, il a voyagé intensément: pour s'adresser à environ deux millions de personnes dans le monde, il a parcouru environ 3,5 millions de kilomètres à bord d'avions privés loués.

4/ L'enseignement de Maharaji, essentiellement oral, est disponible sur supports audiovisuels. Chacun est libre de le suivre, de l'abandonner et d'y revenir à son gré. Suivre cet enseignement ne nécessite pas d'être membre de l'association, de soutenir ses activités ou d'y participer financièrement. Le récent congrès de Versailles, par exemple – comme toutes les conférences organisées par Élan Vital - à été financé exclusivement par des dons qui ne constituaient aucunement une condition d'accès.

5/ Cet enseignement est dispensé gratuitement. Maharaji lui-même n'a jamais tiré aucun revenu des conférences qu'il donne et a renoncé volontairement à tout droit d'auteur sur leur diffusion. Lui et sa famille disposent de moyens d'existence indépendants. Élan Vital couvre uniquement les frais de transport et de séjour relatif aux conférences auxquelles il est invité.

6/ Dans son enseignement, Maharaji rappelle, comme beaucoup l'ont fait avant lui, que ce que nous recherchons se trouve en nous-mêmes. l! n'enseigne ni une religion, ni une philosophie, ni un style de vie, mais un moyen simple et concret de ressentir la satisfaction qui existe déjà de façon inhérente en chaque être humain.

---------

L'association Élan Vital

Statut
Association à but non lucratif enregistrée à la préfecture de Paris en 1990.

Activités
Organisation de conférences avec Maharaji ainsi que de conférences vidéo ou satellite; mise à disposition du public français de l'enseignement de Maharaji sur supports audiovisuels et via satellite à domicile.

Budget
Deux millions de francs:
· 70 % pour l'organisation de conférences,
· 20 % pour la production de supports audio-visuels et écrits,
· 10 % pour les frais administratifs.

Nombre de personnes assistant aux conférences organisées par Élan Vital
1 000 environ. Pas de nécessité d'adhérer à l'association. Le fichier ne contient que les noms de ceux et celles qui souhaitent être personnellement informés des activités de l'association. Il est déposé à la Commission Nationale de l'informatique et des Libertés.

www.elanvital.fr
Adresse Postale: BP 96 -
75862 Paris cedex 18 – Tél: 0142524028

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Date: Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 14:07:35 (GMT)
From: Madame Disculta
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Wha-a-a-a-at?
Message:
Translation of
'5/ Cet enseignement est dispensé gratuitement. Maharaji lui-même n'a jamais tiré aucun revenu des conférences qu'il donne et a renoncé volontairement à tout droit d'auteur sur leur diffusion. Lui et sa famille disposent de moyens d'existence indépendants. Élan Vital couvre uniquement les frais de transport et de séjour relatif aux conférences auxquelles il est invité.'

This knowledge is given freely. Maharaji himself has never taken any income from the programs that he gives and has voluntarily renounced all author's rights on their broadcast. He and his family have independent means of support. Elan Vital only covers the transportation and housing costs for the programs to which he is invited.

Quelle mensonges! What lies.

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Date: Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 14:13:47 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Madame Disculta
Subject: I don't know how they have the guts to publish
Message:
such lies !!!!!!

And how much they actually paid to print such a thing !!!!

Anybody reading this and checking their website understands what EV is about ....

Their naiveness is touching.


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Date: Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 22:31:37 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Here's the Babe Fish translation
Message:
Vital Dash
A development of l?association Vital dash

The congress organized by Vital Dash May the 26 and 27 in Versailles gave place to defamatory attacks on behalf of part of the newspaper industry and audio-visual, for which association is reserved to require repair.

Vital the Elan association, which supports the teaching of Maharaji in France, makes a point of making the following development:

1 / Vital is Élan indexed in the parliamentary report/ratio ' Guyard' of January 1996 - without to be intended nor to have been able to profit from a debate? among 172 movements suspectés to be sectarian. The Commission retained these movements on the basis of not recognized criterion
universally by the experts and in whom Vital Elan is not recognized. Precedents already showed that certain groups quoted in this report/ratio appeared in it by error. Unfortunately, it is impossible to modify a report/ratio when it officially was already adopted by the Parliament.

2 / Vital Élan makes a point of stressing that associations working towards the same end, in other countries, enjoy a governmental recognition. It is the case in Europe where several saw themselves granting the statute of foundation or are recognized of public utility: in the United Kingdom, in Spain, in Slovénie. In Belgium, association received an official distinction for its good legal and financial management.

3 / Maharaji teaches since 1966. Since this date, it gave 2 500 conferences in more than 250 cities and 50 countries. During twelve last years, it travelled intensely: to address itself to approximately two million people in the world, it traversed approximately 3,5 million kilometers on board rented private aircrafts.

4 / the teaching of Maharaji, primarily oral, is available on audio-visual supports. Each one is free to follow it, give up it and to return there to its liking. To follow this teaching does not require to be member of association, to support its activities or to take part in it financially. The recent congress of Versailles, for example? as all conferences organized by Vital Dash - at summer financed exclusively by gifts which did not constitute a condition of access at all.

5 / This teaching is exempted free. Maharaji itself never drew any income from the conferences which it gives and gave up voluntarily very royalty on their diffusion. He and its family has independent means of existence. Élan Vital covers only the transport charges and stay relating to the conferences to which it is invited.

6 / In its teaching, Maharaji recalls, as much did before him, than what we seek finds in ourselves. L! teach neither a religion, neither a philosophy, nor a life style, but a means simple and concrete to feel the satisfaction which already exists in an inherent way in each human being.

Association Vital Dash

Statute
Association with nonlucrative goal recorded with the prefecture of Paris in 1990.

Activities
Organization of conferences with Maharaji as well as video or satellite conferences; availability of the French public of the teaching of Maharaji on audio-visual supports and via satellite in residence.

Budget
Two million francs:
· 70 % for the organization of conferences,
· 20 % for the production of audio-visual and written supports,
· 10 % for the administrative expenses.

A number of people attending the conferences organized by Vital Dash
1 000 approximately. No need for adhering to association. The file contains only the names of those and those which wish to be personally informed of the activities of association. It is deposited at the National Commission of data processing and Freedoms.

www.elanvital.fr
Postal Address: LP 96 -
75862 Paris cedex 18? Tel.: 0142524028

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Date: Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 12:46:17 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Cost of EV's publicity in Le Monde: dollar 70,000
Message:
Who paid for this ? The Swiss EV foundation ?
EV France claims a $300,000 annual budget.

How much are they going to ask the French media for the dammage caused by their defamatory campaign ?

$ 1,000,000 ?????????

Jean-Michel, still wondering where this is going to end ......

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Date: Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 04:49:27 (GMT)
From: bill-they cant sue
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: protesters handing out leaflets at events...nt
Message:
asdg
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Date: Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 07:59:59 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Jim
Subject: Vital Dash Or
Message:
Vital Cash
Vital Smash
Vital Crash
Vital Mash
Vital Stash
Vital Trash
Vital Hash
?

Steve

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Date: Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 07:50:31 (GMT)
From: Vital Dash
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: thanks Jim........nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 21:20:22 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: That really is fucking amazing
Message:
So funny that we're squabbling amongst ourselves so much that no one's got time to comment on this absolutely juicy, precious development. Too fucking much. Can't wait for your inevitable letter to the editor. Or anyone's?
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Date: Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 03:14:28 (GMT)
From: Bob
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: yes you say it!!
Message:
Too bad that the desperate efforts of some renegade premie is able to throw ripples of turmoil in our forum. After the confusion is cleared we'll see again that the cult is on its last legs, in a desperate attempt to correct the situation.
This newspaper is been read by most news agencies. Rawat is very scared that his attempts to stage a comeback by having multiple satsang programs in Europe has completely not materialized: ( normally the attendance of the programs would have grown exponentially) Even on his anniversary he shows to be disturbed by the ex premies!! What more do we want!
About the revelation of this lawyer's who-is: The forum has certain rules. We play by them. But we can link to sites where the rules are different. I would be opposed to even this when this would viololate a sincere persons privacy. But since this caracter already has shown not to respect the privacy of the people who wrote their journeys I have no problem with it at all. Perhaps we can find a middle way here and concentrate on what is important in this time where the tides are turning!
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Date: Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 04:53:45 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Bob
Subject: Concentrate on what's important
Message:
and if anyone wants to post controversial information they should do it on my forum The ANYTHING GOES Forum where it won't be deleted and no blame will be directed at anyone.

A link to the The ANYTHING GOES Forum and even the relevant post on The ANYTHING GOES Forum can be made from this forum and this leaves Forum 5, Brian and anyone else completely absolved of any responsibility.

Me, I'm irresponsible so it won't matter...

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Date: Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 05:26:27 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: You also don't live in the Land of Litigation
Message:
where there are more lawyers than people and many of them are less educated than London busdrivers. It's a shark tank full of legal sharks most of whom think the Magna Carta is the latest sports utility vehicle. Lawyering is like plumbing here. A rounded classical education is not required. Yes, I'm exaggerating but not much.
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Date: Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 10:10:25 (GMT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: You also don't live in the Land of Litigation
Message:
If there is something you wish to make generally known about a person, England is a good place to make your statement. The libel laws here are very strict indeed, stricter, I understand, than the United States. Perhaps there, respect for the Constitution (and in particular the First Amendment) is greater than concern that people should speak the truth, and not be reckless in their assertions.

There was a case a few years back, involving a Privy Councillor (this is a body close to the Monarch, membership of which is considered more advantageous and prestigious than merely to be in the Cabinet as part of the Government). Anyway, the Guardian newspaper published that the Right Honourable Jonathon Aitkin, a Privy Councillor and Member of Parliament, was a liar; a pimp; and an arms dealer. Mt Aitkin was pretty much forced (because the English libel laws are so strict) so take legal action against the newspaper. He lost his case, and was then placed on trial for lying in court. He was tried for perjury, convicted, and jailed. It was a likely result (and it must have seemed at least possible even to a pimp and liar such as Mr Jonathon Aitken has proven to be) -- but he still had to sue, or be convicted by his inaction in the court of public opinion.

If someone lies about you in England, they have likely made a Big Mistake. But the corollary is, that a public figure cannot (politically) just ignore unfavourable assertions made against them under English law. The libel laws here are so-o-o strict, one just has to take action if one is to preserve any credibility.

Poor Oscar Wilde found this out when he brought an action against the Marquis of Queensbury for publishing that he (Wilde) was 'posing as a sodomite'. Oscar was enjoying carnal relations with the Marquis' adult son, and that and other matters came out in the course of the trial.

Mr Wilde was subsequently arrested and tried for his sexual conduct, which was illegal at that time. He was convicted and sentenced to hard labour, but survived Reading gaol to die a few years later in France, his health ruined.

Apart from 'The Ballad of Reading Gaol', Oscar Wilde wrote during his incarceration a work called De Profundis which I think you may find exceptionally moving.

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Date: Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 19:38:11 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: JohnT
Subject: Yes, I love Oscar Wilde's ''De Profundis'' NT
Message:
g
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Date: Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 09:22:09 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: all
Subject: PS Charles Protests Anonymous Lurkers on AG
Message:
I wouldn't be seen dead at Anything Goes. It's the net at it's most weird, wild and woolly (not my cup of tea) but Francesca mentioned to me that she went over there yesterday so I checked and found this:

Charles Glasser says; ''I was the national founder and organizer of the nationwide Blue Ribbon Protest against the Communications Decency Act.''

That sentence alone makes him worthwhile in my book. This man is not my enemy. He is my political ally in my fight for freedom of speech on the internet. He's one of the brave guys and probably really won't mind that we sussed him and that he was outed here. Thanks, Charles. I salute you.

Charles Protests Anonymous Lurkers

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Date: Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 15:54:50 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: I am starting to love Anything Goes
Message:
The voice of Internet freedom and I never have to worry about being off topic. I even had a civil conversation with Catweasel there. Well, sorta.

love, f

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Date: Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 19:23:33 (GMT)
From: such
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: premies bought planes,EVI put titles w/ Seva, and
Message:
Premies bought the planes by sending the money as directed by Elan Vital [using various project name accounts], while m.'s subordinates registered the ownership titles w/ a separate entity -- Seva corporation, and EVI rents the planes from Seva Corp.

I remember having to rewrite some checks that were mailed back, because EVI had concerns about my specifying 1. what the donations were intended for and/or 2. for what organization.

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Date: Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 15:37:07 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Summer Reading (OT)
Message:
Hey, I just finished a couple of books that I thought were great, and I highly recommend:

The first is Barbara Ehrenreich's new book called 'Nickel and Dimed, on(not) Getting By in America.' I got it Tuesday and couldn't put it down (except to post here sometimes, of course).

I've always thought Ehrenreich is a great writer, and this book is another example of her skills
.
She goes undercover, in three different states, and tries to support herself on entry-level jobs. She confirms the impossibiliy of living on $7.00 an hour, something that is quite common in wealthy American in which 30% of workers work for less than $8.00 per hour, often women with children.

Aside from the economics lesson, it's a great insight into the demeaning nature of much of the work in this country and how it is set up to make workers as expendable as possible, and as powerless as possible. It's pretty clear there is no 'worker
shortage,' claimed in many places like the Bay Area, just a shortage of people willing to work hard at a wage that you cannot possibly live on. I think this book should be required reading in every high school.

Also, just recently finished 'Fast Food Nation' by Eric Schlosser about the fast food industry in the USA, and now around the world. It's fascinating and very scary and describes how it has changed the whole society, not gave us unhealthy eating habits, obesity, and crap food. Also a must read, although the people who really ought to read it, probably won't.

Anybody else doing any interesting summer reading? I've just started 'Stiffed: The Betrayal of the American Man' by Susan Faludi, although I'm having a hard time getting into it. It makes you feel sorry for straight white men.

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Date: Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 20:31:52 (GMT)
From: Lesley
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Summer Reading (OT)
Message:
Hi Joe,
Looks like there has been a lot of action here of late. This emergence of 'officially unofficial' pro k&m sites makes me think that the end of the cult world is nigh!

Gallileo's Daughter by Dava Sobel (not to mention her earlier book Longitude, also a corker), is not only an aesthetically attractive little tome, but a very engaging read. In it's own way, very on topic by shining a spotlight on the intellectual road we have travelled over the last few hundred years.

Things are going SO WELL for me lately, I feel somewhat flushed with success, hope all is well with you and yours, Lesley

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Date: Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 15:58:37 (GMT)
From: clarence clear
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Summer Reading (OT)
Message:
Two books I found interesting. Beyond the Personality and Towards Effortless Activity.They are advertised as, 'This western meditive system is a practical, non religious, self help guide which will help you to achieve enlightenment. They are based on a daily fifteen minute breath meditation. I know people who have used them and are really impressed. I have read them and found them interesting. I wonder if an ex premie wrote them.
The only way you can get them is from DEPT A99 BCM ACT LONDON WCIN3XX. No gurus, no organisation, no devotion etc just two books.
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Date: Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 15:33:16 (GMT)
From: Timmi
Email: None
To: Steve
Subject: thank you
Message:
I posted below thanking you for sending me a message explaining what's been going on with you. Then I realized it was really low on the page, so I am posting here, hoping you will see this. As I said, I have not been here for several days because of a crisis with one of my older kids. I have missed this so much. Again, thank you, Steve. It was a big help on what is a pretty rotten day.
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Date: Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 12:35:50 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Real Men Cry Sometimes
Message:
Such just reposted that beautiful Wordsworth poem, and it inspired me to repost Lord Baden-Powell's last message to the boy scout movement that he founded from my post of last Tuesday that's gone inactive.

I mentioned that reading this brought tears to my eyes. I've been accused at certain times of sulking and pouting. An acquaintance at the pub said to me a few days ago: 'stop looking at me with those puppy dog eyes'. I replied 'Hi sweetheart'. He's a tough guy and I didn't know what he'd say, but after pausing a few seconds he replied: 'If you knew what I were really like you wouldn't call me 'sweetheart'.

The point is that somehow because of a difficult life with Hahasludgy and schizophrenia, being with few or no friends for many years of my life, I still feel sorry for myself sometimes. I feel that while Hahasludgy is still doing his thing, I cannot find peace of mind. I know I'll get a few 'get on with your life, Steve you idiot - stop dwelling on the past's. Maybe that will be possible some day, but for the time being I feel that dedication to this Forum V is important to me and if interferes with my social life, then so be it.

Steve

Here's the previous post:

I just read this and it brought tears to my eyes:

Baden-Powell's Last Message
Towards the end of his life, although still in comparatively good health, he prepared a farewell message to his Scouts for publication after his death. It read:

'Dear Scouts - if you have ever seen the play 'Peter Pan' you will remember how the pirate chief was always making his dying speech because he was afraid that possible, when the time came for him to die, he might not have time to get it off his chest. It is much the same with me, and so, although I am not at this moment dying, I shall be doing so one of these days and I want to send you a parting word of goodbye.

Remember, it is the last time you will ever hear from me, so think it over. I have had a most happy life and I want each one of you to have a happy life too.

I believe that God put us in this jolly world to be happy and enjoy life. Happiness does not come from being rich, nor merely being successful in your career, nor by self-indulgence. One step towards happiness is to make yourself healthy and strong while you are a boy, so that you can be useful and so you can enjoy life when you are a man.

Nature study will show you how full of beautiful and wonderful things God has made the world for you to enjoy. Be contented with what you have got and make the best of it. Look on the bright side of things instead of the gloomy one.

But the real way to get happiness is by giving out happiness to other people. Try and leave this world a little better than you found it and when your turn comes to die, you can die happy in feeling that at any rate you have not wasted your time but have done your best. 'Be Prepared' i this way, to live happy and to die happy - stick to your Scout Promise always - even after you have ceased to be a boy - and God help you to do it.

Your friend,

Signed here

With the compliments from: The Public Relations Department at Baden-Powell House, London, England courtesy of Simon Pearce, Author of ScoutNet UK - THE Scouting Web Pages

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Date: Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 06:05:57 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Steve Quint
Subject: Thanks for your post
Message:
Dear Steve,

You can sulk and pout here anytime you want, as far as I'm concerned. The few times I've seen you do it here, I have chosen not to annoy you with pointing it out. I feel like I've gotten to know your 'voice' from reading your posts over time, and I certainly ignore your rough edges, and I know you also ignore mine, because you have not pointed them out to me.

You are facing your fears. That is more than many people ever do.

be well, even when (occasionally) in hell,
love, f

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Date: Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 07:47:01 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hot mail.com
To: Francesca
Subject: Thanks, Sweetheart
Message:
Do you object to me calling you sweetheart? I'd rather ask you directly than have someone like PatC intrude and give me a lecture on manners.

Love,

Steve

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Date: Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 15:31:46 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Steve Quint
Subject: You can call me nice names anytime
Message:
We need some niceness along with all the piss and vinegar on this forum!

love, f

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Date: Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 12:46:50 (GMT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: Steve Quint
Subject: Real Men Cry Sometimes
Message:
Dear Steve,
I think that men who cry are the best sort of men in the world. And I think you are a sweet and gentle man. You have a life. Everyone does. Cherish it.

Someone close to me has schizophrenia. He is a wonderful, spiritual, gifted and intelligent man. He's been in chronic pain for years and it's been hard watching him suffer and trying to help him through sucide attempts and so on. But he's moving into some peace now. I think schizophrenia is an ugly word to describe a pain that can't be articulated clearly.

Lots and lots of love to you Steve

Abi

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Date: Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 16:37:00 (GMT)
From: mercedes
Email: None
To: Steve
Subject: Real Men Cry Sometimes
Message:
I feel that sometimes we need something to hold on to and FV may be that for you at the moment. I read somewhere that 'Acceptance is the answer. I can find no serenity until I accept that situation, whatever it might be, as being exactly the way it is supposed to be'.
So for now you found shelter in the forum and if you need to take a brake to sit in the sunshine, talk to a friend, take a walk, that's okay too.
I am glad you cry, please take really good care of yourself.

Mercedes ;)!!!!

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Date: Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 19:01:33 (GMT)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: mercedes,Abi,Steve,et al
Subject: sometimes tears are the sacraments of our humanity
Message:
Tears need not always been shed in suffering,
but rather as an outpouring of our inner essence,
the teardrops sacraments of our abiding humanity.

Peace and lentils,

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Date: Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 16:08:42 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Abi
Subject: Thanks For Your Support, Abi nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 10:27:15 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: My answer to you, Deborah
Message:
Just take a stroll down to The ANYTHING GOES Forum to see my answer to you about the UFO question you posted way down below.
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Date: Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 09:39:06 (GMT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Some questions for Richard the second
Message:
Dear Richard,

could you please answer the following questions.

1.What did you mean when you said in a post below to Way that if you and I were in a room together fur would fly? Would this amount to a physical or a verbal threat or an attack? I take it you were imagining that you would instigate some sort of 'catfight'. Why is that exactly?

2. In your opinion just what do you think Elan Vital and Maharaji should do about Jagdeo? Bearing in mind of course that they have 'officially' known about Jagdeo since 1999.

3. Can you tell me why it is that you think I have 'crossed the line' by speaking about about the sexual abuse I experienced at the hands of Mahatma Jagdeo?

4. In your opinion what do you think is a responsible and appropriate way of speaking out about child abuse?

5. What would you have done if someone had told you that Jagdeo was sexually abusing children?

I would very much appreciate it if, in your reply, you didn't swear at me or try to intimidate and abuse me. Do you think you could manage that?

Abigail

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Date: Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 20:24:13 (GMT)
From: Richard II
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Some questions for Richard the second
Message:
Abi, in answer to your q's:

1.What did you mean when you said in a post below to Way that if you and I were in a room together fur would fly? Would this amount to a physical or a verbal threat or an attack? I take it you were imagining that you would instigate some sort of 'catfight'. Why is that exactly?

An expression meaning we’d have it out. A “come to Jesus” meeting if you will. I.e. in person where yours and Way’s arguments would need to stand on their own without the incessant obfuscation of other ex-premie’s unsolicited comments. In his message to me Way was demonstrating a little bravado on his part. I was just assuring him in my macho way that I’m not a push-over. But no, we’d both get to passionately air our frustrations with the other side in person, so to speak. Just a normal part of living with other humans.

2. In your opinion just what do you think Elan Vital and Maharaji should do about Jagdeo? Bearing in mind of course that they have 'officially' known about Jagdeo since 1999.

I have no idea what Elan Vital should do because I am not privy to what has taken place in the past, nor am I aware of the legal ramifications of one course of action over another. At the minimum if he fucked up that needs to be recognized. A more important question is what is it that you need in order to heal? Assuming the threat has been neutralized, what do you require from Elan Vital? Is revenge part of it? Just asking.

3. Can you tell me why it is that you think I have 'crossed the line' by speaking about about the sexual abuse I experienced at the hands of Mahatma Jagdeo?

You are painting the nature of Elan Vital and Maharaji as being pedophilic, and in so doing you are deliberately detracting from any good done by focusing attention on one person who messed up. This is one person in hundreds of thousands, over a period of 30 years. I truly regret what you and others have suffered. I am sorry to say Abi this is the real world and this stuff happens. But right now you are being used by people who, for their own spiteful reasons, want to bring Maharaji down and they, with your help, are blowing this up as much as they can so the truth about the situation is being lost. That is my opinion. Many organizations must deal with their members who screw up in this way, but it is unbalanced to attempt to ruin an organization who have done a lot of good for one person’s failings. Besides, worst case result of your actions would be to facilitate the persecution of premies, and force them underground because premies are certainly not going to go away!

4. In your opinion what do you think is a responsible and appropriate way of speaking out about child abuse?

File a lawsuit. Bring it to the scrutiny of the legal system. Get it all out on the table. Hell, your publicizing the details of your case anyway so at least you are past that barrier. As for Elan Vital, as has been stated by even Dettmers, the standards in Elan Vital are very high for moral conduct, and at least nobody I know in the organization would condone or support such abusive activity. Child abuse IS NOT a rampant problem in Elan Vital so in a way you are wasting your passion. If you really care about preventing child abuse Abi why not focus on elements in society that truly ARE a problem. In the meantime you need to make sure you get healed.

5. What would you have done if someone had told you that Jagdeo was sexually abusing children?

I would have sought corroboration and if justified, take it to the appropriate person in the organization. I would have followed up until I felt satisfied.

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Date: Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 22:27:16 (GMT)
From: Moley
Email: None
To: Richard II
Subject: Richard II - you call this shit 'answers'???
Message:
1.What did you mean when you said in a post below to Way that if you and I were in a room together fur would fly? Would this amount to a physical or a verbal threat or an attack? I take it you were imagining that you would instigate some sort of 'catfight'. Why is that exactly?

An expression meaning we’d have it out. A “come to Jesus” meeting if you will. I.e. in person where yours and Way’s arguments would need to stand on their own without the incessant obfuscation of other ex-premie’s unsolicited comments. In his message to me Way was demonstrating a little bravado on his part. I was just assuring him in my macho way that I’m not a push-over. But no, we’d both get to passionately air our frustrations with the other side in person, so to speak. Just a normal part of living with other humans.

(Moley:)So mister macho man who is no pushover. Do you have the balls to admit who you are?


2. In your opinion just what do you think Elan Vital and Maharaji should do about Jagdeo? Bearing in mind of course that they have 'officially' known about Jagdeo since 1999.

I have no idea what Elan Vital should do because I am not privy to what has taken place in the past, nor am I aware of the legal ramifications of one course of action over another. At the minimum if he fucked up that needs to be recognized. A more important question is what is it that you need in order to heal? Assuming the threat has been neutralized, what do you require from Elan Vital? Is revenge part of it? Just asking.

(Moley:)No idea? try reading the relevant journeys.
What Abi needs to heal? Who the hell are you to talk such patronizing crap.
Revenge? Excuse me. Do you make a career out of being a complete arsehole???

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Date: Tues, Jul 03, 2001 at 00:04:02 (GMT)
From: Richard II
Email: None
To: Moley
Subject: Shit ???
Message:
Lovely people you ex-premies. Have you all had that chip on your shoulder all your lives or is it a recent thing?
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Date: Tues, Jul 03, 2001 at 12:05:24 (GMT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: Richard II
Subject: Shit.
Message:
Richard II responded: Lovely people you ex-premies. Have you all had that chip on your shoulder all your lives or is it a recent thing?

Well, I've never liked nonces or their apologists, if that answers your question. I guess we are all different though, eh Richard?

JohnT
- never a premie

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Date: Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 00:50:20 (GMT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: oh, what is the point...
Message:
This is too ugly. As if there is a sincere human being behind the name 'Richard2'...

Thank god there is a world outside the cult. Think I'll go and enjoy it.

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Date: Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 08:49:36 (GMT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: what is the point of dealing with ugliness ?
Message:
I guess some folk just can't help it, Abi. Perhaps they were born that way; or just developed wanting to oppose ugliness and untruth. And sometime brutal circumstance leaves a person with no choice but to fight against a hateful and predatory unreason.

What is disturbing to me is the subtle and not so subtle pressure that such people can come under to just 'drop it'. I would guess you've heard all the shtik Let go; stop living in the past; get on with your life; don't talk up the importance of this thing by reacting to it.

Yeah, right. As if all that's needed is the abolition of righteous anger. As if exploitation and unreaon are not the problem, but the problem lies in those who oppose such dark and twisted forces. As if we should all just play the three monkeys, closing our eyes and ears to evil, and refusing to sully our mouths by mentioning any such deeds. A world where the exploiter is extolled, and the voices of the oppressed are silenced could look so-o-o beautiful on the surface. How wicked are those who spoil it!

I refuse to play THAT game, THAT is not why I live.

Respect.

JohnT
- never a premie

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Date: Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 09:12:15 (GMT)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: Katie and Everyone
Subject: For Katie:There was a time when meadow,grove (on t
Message:
Dear Katie:

As a kid, I knew this beloved poem virtually by heart. Had a strange dream one time: that I was living in England in the early 19th century and was sitting writing a poem next to a place that had a sign that said 'Tintern Abbey.' Then, I woke up. Later, I found this same name in a poetry book!

Anyway, here you go, Katie:

from William Wordsworth. 1770–1850
  
536. Ode
Intimations of Immortality from Recollections of Early Childhood

  THERE was a time when meadow, grove, and stream,  
    The earth, and every common sight,  
            To me did seem  
    Apparell'd in celestial light,  
The glory and the freshness of a dream.          
It is not now as it hath been of yore;—  
        Turn wheresoe'er I may,  
            By night or day,  
The things which I have seen I now can see no more.  
 
        The rainbow comes and goes,   
        And lovely is the rose;  
        The moon doth with delight  
    Look round her when the heavens are bare;  
        Waters on a starry night  
        Are beautiful and fair;   
    The sunshine is a glorious birth;  
    But yet I know, where'er I go,  
That there hath pass'd away a glory from the earth.  
 
Now, while the birds thus sing a joyous song,  
    And while the young lambs bound   
        As to the tabor's sound,  
To me alone there came a thought of grief:  
A timely utterance gave that thought relief,  
        And I again am strong:  
The cataracts blow their trumpets from the steep;   
No more shall grief of mine the season wrong;  
I hear the echoes through the mountains throng,  
The winds come to me from the fields of sleep,  
        And all the earth is gay;  
            Land and sea   
    Give themselves up to jollity,  
      And with the heart of May  
    Doth every beast keep holiday;—  
          Thou Child of Joy,  
Shout round me, let me hear thy shouts, thou happy   
    Shepherd-boy!  
 
Ye blessèd creatures, I have heard the call  
    Ye to each other make; I see  
The heavens laugh with you in your jubilee;  
    My heart is at your festival,   
      My head hath its coronal,  
The fulness of your bliss, I feel—I feel it all.  
        O evil day! if I were sullen  
        While Earth herself is adorning,  
            This sweet May-morning,   
        And the children are culling  
            On every side,  
        In a thousand valleys far and wide,  
        Fresh flowers; while the sun shines warm,  
And the babe leaps up on his mother's arm:—   
        I hear, I hear, with joy I hear!  
        —But there's a tree, of many, one,  
A single field which I have look'd upon,  
Both of them speak of something that is gone:  
          The pansy at my feet   
          Doth the same tale repeat:  
Whither is fled the visionary gleam?  
Where is it now, the glory and the dream?  
 
Our birth is but a sleep and a forgetting:  
The Soul that rises with us, our life's Star,   
        Hath had elsewhere its setting,  
          And cometh from afar:  
        Not in entire forgetfulness,  
        And not in utter nakedness,  
But trailing clouds of glory do we come   
        From God, who is our home:  
Heaven lies about us in our infancy!  
Shades of the prison-house begin to close  
        Upon the growing Boy,  
But he beholds the light, and whence it flows,   
        He sees it in his joy;  
The Youth, who daily farther from the east  
    Must travel, still is Nature's priest,  
      And by the vision splendid  
      Is on his way attended;   
At length the Man perceives it die away,  
And fade into the light of common day.  
 
Earth fills her lap with pleasures of her own;  
Yearnings she hath in her own natural kind,  
And, even with something of a mother's mind,   
        And no unworthy aim,  
    The homely nurse doth all she can  
To make her foster-child, her Inmate Man,  
    Forget the glories he hath known,  
And that imperial palace whence he came.  
 
Behold the Child among his new-born blisses,  
A six years' darling of a pigmy size!  
See, where 'mid work of his own hand he lies,  
Fretted by sallies of his mother's kisses,  
With light upon him from his father's eyes!   
See, at his feet, some little plan or chart,  
Some fragment from his dream of human life,  
Shaped by himself with newly-learnèd art;  
    A wedding or a festival,  
    A mourning or a funeral;   
        And this hath now his heart,  
    And unto this he frames his song:  
        Then will he fit his tongue  
To dialogues of business, love, or strife;  
        But it will not be long
        Ere this be thrown aside,  
        And with new joy and pride  
The little actor cons another part;  
Filling from time to time his 'humorous stage'  
With all the Persons, down to palsied Age,  
That Life brings with her in her equipage;  
        As if his whole vocation  
        Were endless imitation.  
 
Thou, whose exterior semblance doth belie  
        Thy soul's immensity;  
Thou best philosopher, who yet dost keep  
Thy heritage, thou eye among the blind,  
That, deaf and silent, read'st the eternal deep,  
Haunted for ever by the eternal mind,—  
        Mighty prophet! Seer blest!  
        On whom those truths do rest,  
Which we are toiling all our lives to find,  
In darkness lost, the darkness of the grave;  
Thou, over whom thy Immortality  
Broods like the Day, a master o'er a slave,  
A presence which is not to be put by;  
          To whom the grave  
Is but a lonely bed without the sense or sight  
        Of day or the warm light,  
A place of thought where we in waiting lie;  
Thou little Child, yet glorious in the might  
Of heaven-born freedom on thy being's height,  
Why with such earnest pains dost thou provoke  
The years to bring the inevitable yoke,  
Thus blindly with thy blessedness at strife?  
Full soon thy soul shall have her earthly freight,  
And custom lie upon thee with a weight,  
Heavy as frost, and deep almost as life!  
 
        O joy! that in our embers  
        Is something that doth live,  
        That nature yet remembers  
        What was so fugitive!  
The thought of our past years in me doth breed  
Perpetual benediction: not indeed  
For that which is most worthy to be blest—  
Delight and liberty, the simple creed  
Of childhood, whether busy or at rest,  
With new-fledged hope still fluttering in his breast:—  
        Not for these I raise  
        The song of thanks and praise;  
    But for those obstinate questionings  
    Of sense and outward things,  
    Fallings from us, vanishings;  
    Blank misgivings of a Creature  
Moving about in worlds not realized,  
High instincts before which our mortal Nature  
Did tremble like a guilty thing surprised:  
        But for those first affections,  
        Those shadowy recollections,  
      Which, be they what they may,  
Are yet the fountain-light of all our day,  
Are yet a master-light of all our seeing;  
  Uphold us, cherish, and have power to make  
Our noisy years seem moments in the being  
Of the eternal Silence: truths that wake,  
            To perish never:  
Which neither listlessness, nor mad endeavour,  
            Nor Man nor Boy,  
Nor all that is at enmity with joy,  
Can utterly abolish or destroy!  
    Hence in a season of calm weather  
        Though inland far we be,  
Our souls have sight of that immortal sea  
        Which brought us hither,  
    Can in a moment travel thither,  
And see the children sport upon the shore,  
And hear the mighty waters rolling evermore.  
 
Then sing, ye birds, sing, sing a joyous song!  
        And let the young lambs bound  
        As to the tabor's sound!  
We in thought will join your throng,  
      Ye that pipe and ye that play,  
      Ye that through your hearts to-day  
      Feel the gladness of the May!  
What though the radiance which was once so bright  
Be now for ever taken from my sight,  
    Though nothing can bring back the hour  
Of splendour in the grass, of glory in the flower;  
      We will grieve not, rather find  
      Strength in what remains behind;  
      In the primal sympathy  
      Which having been must ever be;  
      In the soothing thoughts that spring  
      Out of human suffering;  
      In the faith that looks through death,  
In years that bring the philosophic mind.  
 
And O ye Fountains, Meadows, Hills, and Groves,  
Forebode not any severing of our loves!  
Yet in my heart of hearts I feel your might;  
I only have relinquish'd one delight  
To live beneath your more habitual sway.  
I love the brooks which down their channels fret,  
Even more than when I tripp'd lightly as they;  
The innocent brightness of a new-born Day  
            Is lovely yet;  
The clouds that gather round the setting sun  
Do take a sober colouring from an eye  
That hath kept watch o'er man's mortality;  
Another race hath been, and other palms are won.  
Thanks to the human heart by which we live,  
Thanks to its tenderness, its joys, and fears,  
To me the meanest flower that blows can give  
Thoughts that do often lie too deep for tears.

Peace and lentils,

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Date: Tues, Jul 03, 2001 at 07:49:43 (GMT)
From: Natalie Wood [channeled]
Email: None
To: suchabanana
Subject: Splendour in the grass
Message:
What though the radiance which was once so bright  
Be now for ever taken from my sight,  
    Though nothing can bring back the hour  
Of splendour in the grass, of glory in the flower;  
      We will grieve not, rather find  
      Strength in what remains behind;

Peace and lentils,  

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Date: Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 13:26:21 (GMT)
From: Gina
Email: None
To: suchabanana
Subject: Should say this whole thread is so moving. nt
Message:
ok
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Date: Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 12:54:14 (GMT)
From: Gina
Email: None
To: suchabanana
Subject: Thanks, Such, for posting this beautiful poem. nt
Message:
yo
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Date: Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 22:24:56 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: suchabanana
Subject: God, Such, That's been my favorite poem since...
Message:
I was a young teen.

I always have kept a copy of it with me. It strikes me deeply and thanks for posting it.

Cynthia

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Date: Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 14:05:13 (GMT)
From: Katie H
Email: None
To: suchabanana
Subject: Thank you Such!
Message:
Yesterday was a rough day on the forum - how nice to find this poem here this morning! I really appreciate it.

Thanks so much,
Katie

P.S. I hope this isn't too weird, but some parts of this poem remind me of the Pink Floyd song 'Comfortably Numb', which I also am very fond of. Wordsworth went farther in reconciling his feelings though, I think.

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Date: Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 14:50:04 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: such
Subject: P.S. Well, really just this verse
Message:
When I was a child I caught a fleeting glimpse,
Out of the corner of my eye.
I turned to look but it was gone.
I cannot put my finger on it now.
The child is grown, the dream is gone.
I have become comfortably numb.
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Date: Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 18:42:16 (GMT)
From: such
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: unless ye be like little children... lost youth...
Message:
The child is father to the man...

At long last, I am recapturing that inner child [haha], and rediscovering the ardent driving passion and lofty goals of the artist as a young man -- which are now progressively becoming fulfilled professionally in my own way and on my terms, finally -- revealing a deeper, reflective portrait painted with the brush of a lifetime of experiences and epiphanies, and a fuller palette of acquired creative abilities.

Alas, Youth is lost on the young...

Peace and lentils,

da lil' swami

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Date: Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 10:45:11 (GMT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: such
Subject: youth is wasted on the young
Message:
At least so my mother told me! I heeded her words and have lived my life backwards, enjoying years of admittedly impecunious leisure in my teens, twenties and thirties. Now I'm pushing fifty with two young children and no way to retire! except if I manage to get rich, somehow. Do you think Rawat would want to buy some poems of mine?

I cannot read Wordsworth's Intimations of Immortality from Recollections of Early Childhood without thinking of the Wonderful World of Work, and that daily grind that I evaded so long on my mother's advice...

Heaven lies about us in our infancy!
Shades of the prison-house begin to close
        Upon the growing Boy,
But he beholds the light, and whence it flows,  
        He sees it in his joy;
...
At length the Man perceives it die away,
And fade into the light of common day.

The prison house being for me as for so many others, the daily grind of circumscribed life.

Part of Rawat's unscrupulous appeal surely lies in suggesting that he brings light into so many dreary lives. How sad that the idealism he engenders is squalidly squandered in his cupidity and greed.

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Date: Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 18:50:00 (GMT)
From: such
Email: None
To: JohnT
Subject: social mores,concepts,conformity,tedious toil,regi
Message:
-- the prison of social mores, concepts and prejudices, economics, politics, conformity, tedious mundane toil, regimentation, banal media, and the corresponding cultural stifling of profound aesthetic creativity, originality, individuality, Nature, and spirit -- thereby also impairing the progress of collective evolutionary intelligence and organic social harmony.
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Date: Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 19:52:04 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: such
Subject: Another poem
Message:
I hope you like T.S. Eliot, despite his faults - I do. I am sure you know the following is from 'Little Gidding'.

Thanks for elevating the conversation here, btw :)

We shall not cease from exploration
And the end of all our exploring
Will be to arrive where we started
And know the place for the first time.
Through the unknown, unremembered gate
When the last of earth left to discover
Is that which was the beginning;
At the source of the longest river
The voice of the hidden waterfall
And the children in the apple-tree
Not known, because not looked for
But heard, half-heard, in the stillness
Between two waves of the sea.

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Date: Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 12:56:19 (GMT)
From: Gina
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Thanks, Katie, for posting these words. nt
Message:
hope I'm not too late.
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Date: Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 02:55:32 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Yeah, 4 quartets was some of the most ...
Message:
mystical stuff I read in my childhood. I still have a copy of it somewhere, and some of that wonderful e.e. cummings stuff.

I ended up buying copies at a used bookstore years ago, when I'd realized I'd moved so many times I no longer had those verses around.

love, f

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Date: Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 20:06:32 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Thanks Such and Katie - music to my ears
Message:
What a delicious respite from the raucous noisy shouting of democratic debate.

It will all blow over Katie and we'll be back to where we started from and it will be just as unresolved and untidy as it always is.

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Date: Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 22:26:56 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Thanks, me too, a great reprieve....n/t
Message:
nt
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Date: Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 01:15:23 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Cynthia (ot)
Message:
Hi Cynthia -
Can you either e-mail me or post your e-mail address? I don't have it anymore. Can't promise a prompt response - as you may be able to tell :).

Thanks,
Katie

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Date: Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 17:23:16 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: sylviecyn@yahoo.com
To: Katie
Subject: Katie, email is above...and
Message:
that's my hotmail account. I don't post my ISP email address here!

Hope you're both okay,
Love,
Cynthia

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Date: Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 17:41:56 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Thanks - and thanks for asking
Message:
No, we're not really OK, but we are getting there (I hope). If you read our post above, you might understand why we were so upset the last few days. Neither of us is superhuman, unfortunately :).

Anyway, I appreciate your asking - hope the move is going well.
Thanks and love,
Katie

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Date: Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 08:34:25 (GMT)
From: Chuck Sprague
Email: bctanda@hotmail.com
To: Everyone
Subject: The Questions that supposedly drive us crazy...
Message:
... are easily answered. They don't drive me crazy at all. It's when the people asking ignore the answers, that makes me a bit crazy.

From ''Charles''' website, his:
Questions That Drive The Critics Crazy... (and my answers)

Q: Why all the hatred and anger? Their answer is usually some vague way of shirking responsibility for their lives, like 'it's part of the healing process.' This is more crazy talk. Maharaji promises to give people a gift of inner peace. I never heard him promise to make your car payments or get you a nice job.

A: I haven't shirked any responsibility. I fully accept my responsibility for my involvment with M. In fact, I insist on it, because it allows me to take my own power back. I also insist he take resposibility for his part. I want him to say what he means, and mean what he says. If he doesn't he can expect criticism. What's wrong with that? Welcome to the real world.

Who said ANYTHING about M making promises to make my car payments or get me a nice job? What are you talking about? Are you obfuscating things with nonsense?. Or is it part of your need to see us all as angry and hate-filled, defective somehow, so you won't have to look at the truth?

Q: If you left 25 years ago, then why are you still hung up on this? Why don't you just move on with your life? This one might buy you a punch in the nose. They know in their heart that they had a very real experience practicing Knowledge (a few honest ones will even admit it) but having committed themselves to the hate cult, they feel the need to validate their ugly doubt and paranoia. Aren't they better off enjoying their lives? Why do they need to tear down others to do it?

A: I DIDN'T leave 25 years ago, I left 5 months ago. Many of us have left in more recent times, don't paint us all with one brush. Sheesh! And I am moving on with my life. Life is wonderful. And I'm still having a very real experience practicing the four techniques. Guess what? They aren't not copyrighted. They aren't even secret in the real world.

I forgive M completly for lying. I don't want revenge. I want justice. Forgivness does not preclude addressing current wrongdoings, or allowing blame for past mistakes and deceptions to be wrongfully shifted to others. Let the full truth be revealed, and let the blame fall where it belongs. A legal deposition could sort out the facts.

And what's wrong with addressing wrongdoings of the past? It helps prevent them from being repeated, and is an example to others who would try to do the same. How does being in the past make an injustice ok to ignore? Are you REALLY a laywer?

Wouldn't we be better off enjoying our lives? Sure, who wouldn't be? But who says we're NOT? Many of us feel much better after unloading the Imaginary Friend and His baggage. We enjoy our lives and '''tearing others down''' has nothing to do with it. If the things M has done in his life put him in a less than flattering light when scrutinized, that speaks worse of him than those who simply observe his behavior, and talk about it. Whose fault is it that M has secrets to hide? Certainly not mine.

Q: How come all the stories you tell about Maharaji allegedly doing bad things are twenty-five years old? Ask them this one, and they'll mumble but never give you a straight answer. That's because hate groups rely on the insidious urban legend: stories so old they could never be substantiated. Everything is 'I heard it from someone in the know who told them....' At best, these people are misleading themselves, at worst, they are trying to mislead others. They have no documentation of wrongdoing, because there never was any. Merely typing it up and posting it on a web page to look like 'archives' doesn't make it true.

A: Easy answer. Your WRONG, they aren't all 25 year old stories. I didn't even get involved until 20 years ago, and I've ''kept in touch'' all that time. Last year, I did a lot of sycronized participation. Many of us only left recently, and are talking about that.

If you actually read EPO before criticizing, you would see that. You are making sweeping generalizations, in order to obfuscate the issues. You call us a ''Hate Group'' so you don't have to see us as individuals or real people, because if you did, you might actually have to be concerned about what we are saying. You accuse us of ''Urban Ledgends?'' Where did you get that from, a movie poster? You critisize us without even reading what we've been saying. No wonder you are anonymous. Where is YOUR credability?

And what did happen 25 years ago is still relevent, because it is the basis of all that has come afterward, and M is trying to sweep it under a rug, pretend it never happend. He's lying. Who is misleading who? Who is collecting money under false pretenses, who is hiding financial records, who is revising the past, who is hiding from the press? And ''Charles'', who is Who is making accusations anonomously?

There is plenty of documention of wrongdoing. Many of the cult documents are on EPO. Many of the stories of our lives are on EPO. Great care is taken to be as accurate at possible, and to verify as much as possible, and to correct information if better or more complete information sources are revealed. If what is said here is lies, then M should sue. But he doesn't DARE. His actions won't hold up to scrutiny.

Q: Why does it matter to you if Maharaji lives in a nice house? Look at the number of self-help materials and 'spritual books' on the market today. Any fool can realize that Maharaji could have made himself a fortune selling this stuff, if money was what he was after. The critics are just freaked out that Maharaji isn't here to satisfy their concepts. So what if he isn't a little old man in a beggars' white robes? Who cares? Maharaji is a Master of this Knowledge. And the student doesn't get to tell the Master what to look like, how to dress, or what to eat. Maharaji's message is what counts. There IS no money issue. It's just a sideshow to spread the poison of doubt. Don't drink it.

A: You're obfuscating again! The issue is not what kind of house M lives in. It's how was that house paid for. And no, M could not have made as much money making self-help books, because he doesn't know how. He doesn't even know how to teach yoga, either. He's teaching devotion to himself, using a few yoga techniques as a lure. It's based on old Rhadasoami Indian religious cult practices, superficially modified for western consumption, and useful for collecting a lot of money in the process.

I agree, who cares how he dresses? Who's saying he should wear a loin cloth or robes to be credible? What are you talking about? What's that got to do with anything?

M is the Master of Knowlege? If you believe that, it may become the truth for you, but it is by no means a universally undisputed fact, any more than Santa Claus, or the tooth fairy. People really do believe in them too, and have an experience from that belief, but that doesn't make the existance of such magical entities a fact. When a child believes in Santa, the FEELINGS the child has are real. But that dosen't mean Santa is.

I agree M's message IS what counts. His message is that he is the Master, and all that goes with that concept. Yes, it is a concept. He shows you an experience anyone can have from yoga, encourages you to believe it's God, then takes credit for it. That is what corrupt guru's do. It's an old Indian story. M's just doing it in the west, where the money is.

Even if he really thinks he is Ballyguesswhat, the MASTER, I say, so what? Is he ENTITLED to tell lies with impunity? I've been lied to by M, and I hate that. Perhaps you think I should be glad about it? Is that what you tell your clients? Do you accuse them of being members of a hate group when they come to you, unhappy with an injustice?

There is no money issue, you say? Fine. That's easy to prove. Let's look at the books then. If there is nothing to hide, then hide nothing. Even in India, many guru's have open finances. Why doesn't M, if he has nothing to hide? Why?

****

The premie sites criticising us will not link to our sites, although we do link to theirs, because we have nothing to hide. They do.

Hiding from hard facts will not make them dissapear. M's chickens are coming home to roost. Don't give up, Maharaji. Give in.

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Date: Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 06:14:22 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Chuck Sprague
Subject: I'm glad you did that
Message:
I also loved Charles' assertions that:

Here's a fact that drives them bonkers: Maharaji and Elan Vital have always passed every single government audit with flying colors.

Dettmers told us they were in trouble with the IRS, and that Dettmers was one of the people who helped straighten out the operations so that they would pass muster.

Charles is a lying sack of sheesh!

GREAT post!
Love, f

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Date: Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 00:01:19 (GMT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Chuck Sprague
Subject: Excellent reply Chuck
Message:
I appreciate you taking the time to answer Charles' questions in a thoughtful and level headed way. No hate, no atagonism, just the facts, m'am. My favorite posts lately are replies to the Charles / Pia statements - a virtual conversation if you will. The only dialogue that will be possible unless more Ericas come here to have a meaningful disussion.

As I said in the ill-fated thread where Charles's pants were run up the flagpole, it really does seem like the end of EV as we knew it. The loyal premies are lashing out at what they perceive as hate but in reality is mostly thoughtful observation and critique. The more they thrash about, the more truth will bubble to the surface. Every new Charles that pops up only calls more attention to the house of cards EV really is.

I think the real issue is this: critique of M & K is perceived as an attack on 'my experience'. Without the vagueness of 'my experience' remaining intact, the whole game is vapor.

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Date: Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 22:05:34 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Chuck Sprague
Subject: Great post, Chuck NT
Message:
gggg
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Date: Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 08:45:09 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Chuck Sprague
Subject: Holy Cow! You must have cooked this one up
Message:
when I had my back turned. Trust you to get down to the nitty-gritty of it. You should have been a lawyer. No, I take that back. Accurate, sensible, to the point and simple. Thank you for being my truest, dearest and best friend for 20 years.
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Date: Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 18:08:40 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: 'Be aware every moment' was enough of a mind-f**k
Message:
Now, the message has become 'Beware. Beware every moment of this life.'

thus spake the Maha-shyster (Thousand Oaks, 24th March 1995).

More paranoia at this week's new offering on http://evnewsletter.org/, where he begins with this rare declaration of truth:

'What if I told you you're being robbed?
Right now. In this life, you're being robbed ...'

.
.
.
One more for the road?

'Invest in that which will give you a return.
It's a good policy, and there is nothing to invest in like the heart.'

.
.
.

'scuse, me, I think I need the bathroom ... (make that 'barf'-room)

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Date: Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 18:46:14 (GMT)
From: Mr Williams
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: 'Be aware every moment' was enough of a mind-f**k
Message:
This is the kind of post I think is so revealing. You take a couple words out of context, roll it around in your mind, your perception, apparently coat it with your own blend of blame, anger, hurt, and judgement, make fun of M, and then describe some kind of excretory function as a reaction to him/his words/K/'devotion.'

You're doing a fine job of making your position, and your state of mental health, clear. Thanks.

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Date: Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 19:42:02 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Mr Williams
Subject: Mr Williams
Message:
Nice to see you back. So are and Mr. Charles one person or not?
And what do you do here? This is a place for deranged people. Or you maybe specializing in psychothereapy to help us cross over our fears and hate. Is prozac and nefazadon on your list.

[now your talking to a mental patient remember]

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Date: Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 19:41:16 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Mr Williams
Subject: Care to contribute?...
Message:
Mr. Williams,

Do you have anything to add to the Official Premie Belief System list that we are compiling today a couple threads below?

I have to admit that I have been surprised how many beliefs there really are despite the fact that premies say they don't have any beliefs about Knowledge and Maharaji, only direct experience.

And remember, these are 2001 beliefs, not 1970's beliefs which would be an entirely different list.

We are making a little fun here, but the topic is actually serious. Can you not see that there are premie beliefs happening just as in any religion? And can you not also see that the 'experience' you have is very much the same that other religious people must have had in all cultures and times in history?

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Date: Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 19:47:53 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: MW
Subject: Mr. Williams- Care to Contribute? is for you nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 19:36:26 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Mr Williams
Subject: 'Be aware every moment' was enough of a mind-f**k
Message:
Now, to be fair, Mr Williams

I do appreciate the point you have made, and if it serves to make the quality of my criticism of Maharaji more potent in future, then, all I can say is thank-you.

But, to be fair, I did quote a little more than just 'a couple of words'. And you say they were out of context? Well, when your self-professed 'Master' speaks, it's often hard to tell what the context is. You would say that it's all about helping people to enjoy their lives more (and please DO correct me if I'm wrong). I say that, along with the presentation of four simple meditation techniques that CAN benefit people (yes, I do believe they can, in certain circumstances, though they might not benefit everyone who wants to learn them), - along with that potential benefit that meditation can offer, he manages to include in his 'spin', a number of suggestions that are designed to create a feeling of dependency on, and enforce a sense of gratitude toward, HIM and him alone.

To any new recruit into the world of M and 'his' knowledge I would, at the very least, advise caution. Why? Because common sense demands it, especially given Maharaji's track record (i.e the history of his attempt to place himself in the public eye, and his attempts at denial of the same).

It's clear that I do not trust him, his methods, or his motivation for trying to stay in the 'teacher' business. That's a pity, because I think that, in the right hands, with no attempt to demand gratitude from its recipients, the meditation he calls 'knowledge' COULD actually benefit people.

Unfortunately, it appears that he wants to imprint his own sense of 'ownership' on something that truly is NOT his to claim. He learned the techniques from his father, who learned them from another. Why not let the 'knowledge' be its own propagator? Why not let people share what they've learned freely?
.
.
.
Unfortunately, its always been in the power of the priest to attempt to ensure that they themselves are included in and benefit from the deal. That's not what a true altruist would do. A true altruist (someone who really DOES want to see mankind benefit from something that really COULD benefit mankind) would not demand (however subtle that demand) that they have equal footing with the teaching. Unfortunately, your chosen 'master' has made and continues to make it clear that WITHOUT HIM, the 'knowledge' is worthless.

It is not.

I (personally) can attest to that.

BTW, it's him, his words and his demands for 'devotion' (as you, revealingly, still call it) that I find 'excretory'. I don't identify the 'knowledge' with Mr Rawat, hence I can still appreciate it.

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Date: Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 08:15:16 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Ooo, you're a cool customer, cq. Brilliant!
Message:
What can I say except that I wish I had written it? Bless your cotton socks.
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Date: Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 23:04:34 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: **BEST OF FORUM*** cq succinct and well put n/t
Message:
n/t
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Date: Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 18:27:15 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Enjoy Life, cq!!!
Message:
That's what the envelope I received in the mail this week said. Trembling with anticipation of its suggestion, I carefully opened it and found ... no, not money ... no, not a letter from about an inheritance from a distant relative ... no, not a proposal of marriage from saucy, but ... the offer of enjoying a potential $27,000 credit at ONLY 3.99% from MBNA.

Well, as I'm struggling to pay off the credit debt I already have, I've been thinking about what credit companies and the 'm-trip' have in common (although I'm sure you could do a better job, cq!).

Sucking people into investing out time/money for his personal gain?

Sucking people into using their credit cards to 'enjoy life' flying to events?

Mortgaging your human life for the promise of an after-life?

.

Help me cq!

Anna

(thanks for the great email! Lots to tell you about! :)

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Date: Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 12:45:54 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: you think YOU need help?!!!
Message:

'You'd PAY to know what you REALLY think.' --Bob Dobbs 1961

Allow me to introduce you to the Church of Subgenius.

You, too, can become a master of the stoogley arts.

(thinks - how about 'Pay-as-you-Breathe' as a new marketing scam?)

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Date: Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 14:11:00 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Spazz church of macho irony?I've found my calling!
Message:
Thank you cq!!! My heartfelt yet hopeless cry for help has finally been answered!! I have found THE WAY! Are you my guru?

I think someone called rawat already has a minor piece of the Pay-as-You-Breathe-Scam market, but there seems to be a high turnover in rubes, so you should easily be able to carve out a highly profitable niche for yourself, especially with your scintillating personality and irresistible charisma! Good luck with your new business venture!

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Date: Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 17:36:28 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: got an email from an admirer today about us:
Message:
here's my reply to them:

--the site I am going to for helping me wash the cult years out of my system is
http://www.ex-premie.org

or here's an embedded link, if copying it into your browser is too much of a hassle:
EPO

others who are exiting other cults have come over to look at our place, and been deeply impressed, at the depth and extent of our efforts, so I gather that what we are doing is applicable to more than just us.
I get the impression that some of them have told their pals that they should take some tips from our site, in going after their own leaders. that was neat, knowing that. we didn't start out with that in mind we were just looking for friends from long ago we had met in the cult, and had lost track of over the years, and it just grew from trading stories and information. we left for various personal reasons and then found each other anew, afterwards.

it's kind of amusing, really, because the cult is well aware of us, and recently there's been this backlash, of devotees starting websites, to protest us and defend the leader, and the harder they work at it, the worse they look.

they insist on calling us a hate group, and we find that bizarre, considering that hate is not what led us to each other. all we were doing was talking to each other and saying whatever we thought, or had seen, or had felt about our time in it--and they view that as hateful and threatening and unfair!
hey! what about how unfair it all was to us??? Huh? is anybody listening to OUR side of it?
I don't call it 'fair', when some undeducated indian kid drops out of 9th grade and comes over here and tells us he can show us God, face to face, but first we have to surrender our lives completely to devotion to him, and give up meat, fish, eggs, drugs, smoking, sex,drinking, materialistic gain, ties to our families, career, love relationships, and move into monastic communal houses, run by the global headquarters, meditate 24 hours a day, do nothing but serve his mission and talk about nothing, unless its about him and the practices, and give whatever money we can make, straight to him...and then discover that he doesn't meditate, himself, drinks every day, gets stoned, wastes our hard earned money on trifles and pointless luxuries, eats meat, smokes 2 packs a day and can't quit, brooks zero criticism, has terror tantrums if he doesn;t get his way, abuses anyone within range at will, marries at 16, and 7 years later gets the itch to start laying other followers besides his spouse, and makes a habit of sending his office men out, to tell the sexy ones to meet him in a 4 star hotel suite for use-once- and -discard snacks!

no, I don;t call that fair at all.

last time I checked, this was still america, it was still a free country and the bill of rights was still in force. unless they have suspended the constitution, (and even if they do,) as far as I'm concerned, I can call it as I see it, and there ain't jack the self styled God in a bod can do about it--except perhaps try the novel approach of actually heeding the commentary, and discover the amazing results of responding in a responsible, ethical, conscientious manner, befitting of an adult.

why--shucks.--_I_ have.
if _I_ can do it,
he can do it.
it only hurts when you fight against it.

I TRIED it his way. i say, fair is, HE can try it MY way now!

THAT, would be a fair transaction.

would you agree?

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Date: Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 17:49:37 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: it's free speech if you say the right thing
Message:
But at least it's semi free which is more than any premie site I have seen. Good letter Janet. Exiting a cult after a long time is hard you expressed it well.

and FA of the hour, quick on the trigger aren't you? Well to the other FA of the hour, my sympathies I answered you on
AG.

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Date: Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 18:26:43 (GMT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: got to be happy hour........nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 18:28:13 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: salam
Subject: uh it's 11:30 a.m. here
Message:
but then metally deranged addictive types like me should not care about such silly things.

Good going over yonder Salam. :)

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Date: Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 15:09:56 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: The Official Premie Belief System
Message:
It seems that premies are almost unanimous in declaring that there is no belief system involved with the practice of Knowledge. I don't think they ever step away from themselves long enough to notice that that statement in itself sounds dangerously like a belief.

Now that we have premies responding officially to this site, we are understanding their current belief system. These premies make certain declarative statements over and over again that parrot Rawat's own words precisely. How these declarative statements are different from beliefs is beyond me.

The official premie belief system has evolved over the years. What follows is current for the year 2001 and is subject to change. The list is surprisingly long, and what follows is only a start. If any premies or exes care to add some, please do so. I have stated some of them in slightly humorous ways but the list in intended to be a serious look. We start out with the number 1 most important belief.

1. This is not a cult.

2. There is no belief system, only direct experience.

3. All the other so-called Masters active in the world today are heads of cults.

4. Maharaji's oldest brother is a fraud.

5. Maharaji and Elan Vital are separate and Maharaji is not the head of Elan Vital. There are some cultish aspects to Elan Vital but that is entirely Elan Vital's fault.

6. Mistakes have been made in the past but nothing whatsoever is Maharaji's fault.

7. The 1970's are the distant past, nearly prehistoric. The best way to deal with the 70's is to present them in funny skits and make fun of them. Serious thought is not needed or recommended.

8. Mr. Rawat's personal life is none of my business.

9. Mr. Rawat's wealthy lifestyle is specifically none of my business but he deserves whatever presents he wants.

10. Mr. Rawat is not overweight. He is pleasantly plump. He is 5'2' tall in order to fit comfortably in the cockpit of his plane.

11. Maharaji is the Perfect Enigma. He has never claimed to be God or a messiah figure of any sort.

12. Maharaji loves me, undoubtedly.

13. My spouse holds a very very important place in my life, right after Maharaji.

14. There is something wrong with me that Knowledge is correcting.

15. I am taking a journey to some place inside of me and Maharaji is taking me there.

16. The Premie Manifesto: Practice, Participation, and (I forget, but I think it starts with a P).

17. Everybody in the whole world needs this Knowledge, only they don't know it.

18. Rawat is a wonderful public speaker in the two languages that he knows. It's very silly to think that he could know 34 languages. We are no longer that silly.

19. Maharaji only wants to touch people's hearts and he is not now, nor ever has been, a con.

20. Maharaji has given me a most wonderful gift. Without him and his gift to me, I would have no access to my own heart.

21. Ex-premies have lost 'that feeling.' We pity their lives of hatred. If only they would follow Maharaji's advice and just walk, they would be a lot happier. (And so would we).

22. The 14 objections are all based entirely on hearsay, rumor, and speculation.

23. Ego must be transcended.

24. There are two voices in a human being - the heart, and the mind. These two voices are often in disagreement with each other and in every case of disagreement, the heart wins.

...any others?...

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Date: Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 23:12:56 (GMT)
From: Bryn
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: That which you are looking for is inside.
Message:
Bollocks. That which I am looking for is inside AND outside.

That which I am looking WITH is inside.

Also:

The belief that 'to keep in touch' means what it would mean in the normal world. Actually it means 'listen to ME; watch videos of me'

love Bryn

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Date: Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 23:40:13 (GMT)
From: Bryn
Email: None
To: Bryn
Subject: Happiness is not a consequence.
Message:
Yes it is. Hapiness is the direct consequence of having an individualised inner presence with which to recognise to whom the emotion is occuring. As a phenomenon it is secondary to identity.

Exceptions are animals, infants and the mentally impaired. As a premie I had a tendency toward all three!

love Bryn

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Date: Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 18:59:27 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: #25 Morals are for people without bliss
Message:
All the run-ins I've had with premies are finally making sense to me. I can no longer communicate with them. They do not believe in goodness, kindness or love for their fellow humans. It is all about loving You Know Who and their experience of You Know What and fuck everybody else.
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Date: Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 13:16:42 (GMT)
From: Bryn
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Knowlege is THE experience within. nt
Message:
df
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Date: Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 13:40:05 (GMT)
From: Bryn
Email: None
To: Bryn
Subject: No such thing as re-incarnation. also...
Message:
...that the four techniques belong together as a unified coherent package.

There are more. Cant bring them to mind right now though, thank god.

love Bryn

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Date: Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 09:39:39 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: The techniques only work when U receive K nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 08:17:01 (GMT)
From: such
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Yaweh! (nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 23:24:24 (GMT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: 25 . He'll hold my hand beyond the grave nt.
Message:
c
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Date: Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 19:08:09 (GMT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: 'It's my own personal experience.' = #18?
Message:
This is the ultimate carved-in-stone fall-back position for any and all observations about M and his inconsistencies.

It makes absolutely no difference what you say about M or K because 'It is my own personal experience'.

Don't ask me about what K is like for me because 'It is my own personal experience'.

I don't care that M killed a cyclist and let Sampuranand's houseboy take the blame because 'It is my own personal experience'.

Etc

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Date: Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 18:18:15 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: 'we are superior to everyone else on earth...'
Message:
because we know this thing and no one else does'

'we have a secret but we can't tell it to you'

'no one can show you this secret but maharaji'

'this secret is the most important thing in life'

'you need this secret but you can;t have it until you're deemed completely ready for it'

'only maharaji knows when you're ready to be shown'

'you must never show this secret to anyone else'

'if you stop practicing what you are shown, your life will degenerate into horrible things and you will slide back into ignorance'

'you must never stop paying attention to this thing because your death could come at any moment'

'maharaji is more important than even this thing'

'maharaji is the only one in the world who knows this thing'

'maharaji is the only one in the world who can show it to you'

'maharaji knows more than I do about this thing'

'maharaji is just carrying out what HIS master bid him to do'

'if majaraji humiliates me, I deserve it'

'if maharaji gets angry with me, I deserve it'

'maharaji isn't required to obey our demands and expectations, and that includes laws, conscience, ethics, accountability, or responsibility'

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Date: Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 17:36:09 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Way
Subject: maharaji is 'the mirror'.
Message:
(When I listen to Rawat or watch him on vid, I sometimes bliss out. Sometimes I feel only pain and confusion. This is because Maharaji is the mirror. Whatever I experience is an intruction: my subjecive reaction merely shows me where I am at in my practice, and has nothing to do with the quality of M's performance because all his satsamgs are equally perfect...)
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Date: Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 16:34:36 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: anything I do in defense of M is OK
Message:
That would be my ony addition .
Good one Way. We don't need them to post here anymore, we can just cut and paste since it amounts to the same thing.
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Date: Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 16:28:20 (GMT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: #16 third 'P' is really a 'G' = Gratitude = cash
Message:
Very good Way, very good indeed. I was thinking this lovely morning how important it was to make direct, truthful statements about M&K and you have. Your points are irrefutable by any rational person. By the way, as Sir Dave humorously points out below, up until the moment of my post at least, there is not one word of hate in this thread (except Jim's hateful use of the word 'summary' of course :>).

Richard the hate-free since before birth

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Date: Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 18:45:20 (GMT)
From: Mercedes
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: #16 third 'P' is Progress I think n/t
Message:
PPP
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Date: Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 18:59:54 (GMT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Mercedes
Subject: #16 third 'P' is Progress - thanks Mercedes
Message:
I would not want to be inaccurate, hate-filled, or drug-crazed so thanks.
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Date: Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 19:30:53 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Mercedes
Subject: Yes, Mercedes, thanks
Message:
How could have I forgotten progress? There's been so much of it.
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Date: Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 16:23:16 (GMT)
From: Mercedes
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: so much of it...
Message:
Yes Way, specially since we left.
Take care, I really like your list.

Mercedes

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Date: Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 16:08:21 (GMT)
From: Sandy
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Amendment to #11
Message:
#11 amendment for old timers and those who are 'in':

...nod, wink, knowing glance, Mona Lisa smile, rock on heels and toes whistling at the ceiling, hands in pockets.

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Date: Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 19:15:29 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Sandy
Subject: Amendment to #16
Message:
It used to be ''satsang, service and meditation''

Now it's ''watch videos, participate$$$, and keep in touch (spend lots of $$ to go see guru, or gatherings for video feeds''

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Date: Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 15:37:06 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Did they change the third 'p' to an 's'?
Message:
Was looking for a link at Mili's site and found this
The Whether

(sorry, scanned it - don't know how you had the patience to compile that ... their thinking is so screwy I can only take it in short doses - it affects me like reading transcipts and quotes of rawat's.)

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Date: Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 15:28:20 (GMT)
From: Disculta
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Regarding number 14: NOTBROKEN!
Message:
Great post, Way. Your #14 actually inspired me to post, which takes a lot these days!

'14. There is something wrong with me that Knowledge is correcting.'

What if we were to remove or ignore ALL the others on your list, brilliant though it is. And just focus on this one. If this belief system were not present, the whole thing couldn't exist could it?

I was just reading this very good book by a guy who had a guru, then left and started teaching meditation and other stuff himself. He recounts how he guided a novice group in a really profound meditation that left them all feeling what he thought was higher consciousness. Then he asked if they had ever had such an experience before. Oh yes, said one woman, when I stroke my cat. Half the room nodded, and then everyone in the room started describing their versions of cat-stroking. The author says this totally busted him, because he realized that everyone is already there, and all his years of grandiose spiritual specialness were unnecessary.

If we take as a new premise that there is nothing wrong with me that Knowledge needs to correct, or to put it positively, I am whole and complete just as I am, then any practice I do is for fun, out of choice, and I would never be attracted to a cult that preaches our inadequacy -- particularly our inadequacy relative to 'the master' - as its main motivation for doing its practices.

When I left MJ I said something in my long 13-page letter to him along the lines of 'I have realized I'm not broken and didn't need fixing by you.' Actually, I was a bit broken, but the kind of fixing he offered had just majorly exacerbated my previous wounding.

I think a good message to premies is to really acknowledge everything good about them. Then MJ will have a harder time preying on their low self-esteem.

You are wonderful, all you premies, but it's not because of him. Hey, premie ji, why don't you make a list of everything you like about yourself, and go through it and see how much of it actually came from him. Honestly. I mean, that he directly influenced you to be that way. And are those parts that you attribute to him real or an act?

love Katie Darling enlightened by stroking my cats and watching Whose Line Is It Anyway on TV

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Date: Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 06:03:56 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: Number 14 is wrong
Message:
It's not that there is something wrong with me. I AM PERFECT. It's just my mind that doesn't know that. But my heart does. I must listen more to my heart and less to my mind if I'm to ever know who I really am.
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Date: Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 18:22:30 (GMT)
From: Chuck Sprague
Email: bctanda@hotmail.com
To: Disculta
Subject: M reinforces ''People are Nuts'' syndrome...
Message:
Welcome back, Katie. I hope you had a nice visit with your parents. I visited mine last October after a long absence, and was glad I did.

You said:
''I think a good message to premies is to really acknowledge everything good about them. Then MJ will have a harder time preying on their low self-esteem.''

I think that is a very important point. I became aware, during the last couple of years, of how often M talks about people as being crazy, even the premies. He describes the premies as being like fish who are admiring the fishing boat and the net, and the knife the fisherman is going to use to cut their head off. He often uses analogies to show how people are insane, and then offers himself, the Master, as the solution.

Even normal everyday people will concede that we can ALL be crazy sometimes. But M takes if further than that. There is no true sanity or peace of mind without the Master, if only we will realize that and NEVER FORGET.

Over time I really began to resent his descriptions of ME as crazy, saying I'm like this or that, and make the most absurd claims about how the premies think, and I would think ''NO, I'm NOT. No, I don' think that. That sounds crazy. What is he talking about?'' And yet how often over the years did I ignore my own sane voice, and just sort of go along with what he was saying, letting it sink into my subconcious?

He constantly undermines the premies self esteem, then claims to be GIVING them self esteem. Notice how often premies say things like ''People are crazy'' like it's a FACT? Like you can't be normal unless you are devoted to the Master, and even then, sanity is a struggle to surrender? Because ''People are crazy''.

In M's world, they certainly are.

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Date: Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 23:13:15 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Chuck Sprague
Subject: Yes, yes, I would nod my head knowingly
Message:
He was speaking to me. To me! The part of me that hated (maybe hates?) myself and wishes I was something other than what I am. It certainly hit home alright, and fed the sickness.

If I always try to be something I am not, I will never be who I am. And I was born to be that, and only that, in each given moment--reagardless of whether or not I choose breath to connect my mind and body in that given moment.

Some of it I see as M manipulating us. But he did derive this from that Rhadasoami Hindi-bindi folklore, and I think that he truly believes some of it. It's a modernized version of that same nonsense in the Hans Yog Prakash. His dad passed on, now it's his turn in the driver's seat. Sometimes I realize that although it was a real mind-fuck, he truly sees himself as the shepherd of the flock. He's a truly deluded man.

Francesca

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Date: Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 17:35:06 (GMT)
From: Wildflower
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: Right you are!
Message:
I personally think petting a cat works because it draws a person totally into the now and lets the static in one's head settle down like the dust it is. Staring at a flower in wonder or going out into nature and really tuning into it do that for me too. My theory is that anything that accomplishes pulling me totally into the present moment has the same effect. Sometimes K did that, but I don't think it was unique to the techniques. Maybe that old hackneyed phrase 'be here now' has something to it.
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Date: Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 16:34:27 (GMT)
From: michael donner
Email: None
To: way
Subject: belief system
Message:
great post...one thought perhaps 17a..everyone needs knowledge...though m is the only official authorized dealer of knowledge...he is trying his best to get everyone knowledge even though more people are being born per minute then receiving k in years and more folks are dying each minute...those 'everyone' will be reach any minute now as the dvd system comes on line. and if only premies and elan vital and former such systems as divine light mission and crazy mahatmas would get out of the way and let m do his work this very large pool of real needing people referred to as 'everyone' will get their heartfelt needs and wishes granted...before they die.

probably m being the only authorized dealer of this precious gift is an important part of the belief system...authorized by whom exactly as he is no longer connected with the god business.

and the not god thing is interesting...perhaps esp then...is praying to him for help...or asking him for gratitude, for example, still part of the deal?? if so, how exactly does he hear those prayers and requests...especially if in some of the other languages he does not speak??

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Date: Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 18:11:36 (GMT)
From: Another one
Email: None
To: michael donner
Subject: belief system
Message:
Michael Dettmers, Michael Donner, Michael Finch, and Michael McDonald cannot be trusted. In fact, everybody named Michael should now be viewed with suspicion.
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Date: Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 18:20:51 (GMT)
From: Michael Wood
Email: None
To: Another one
Subject: How about me AO, should I be trusted? /nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 19:17:23 (GMT)
From: Michael the Archangel
Email: None
To: Michael Wood
Subject: How about me AO, should I be trusted? /nt
Message:
PatC
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Date: Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 23:33:38 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Michael Wood
Subject: Is that Michael Wood as in Annie Wood? NT
Message:
fffff
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Date: Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 16:27:01 (GMT)
From: Ian Dury
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Or Michael Wood, M's personal videographer? (nt)
Message:
xxxx
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Date: Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 13:59:44 (GMT)
From: Bob
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: ANYTHING that..
Message:
m. does is to help us .
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Date: Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 15:46:46 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: Disculta - you warm my heart
Message:
Over on Lifes Great, I joked to somebody that I received Knowledge in 1975 and fully realized it in 1997. I didn't mention that 1997 was the year that I left Maharaji. But my point was that premies never realize Knowledge, they remain so imperfect. Yes. Yes, indeed! We are imperfect and it is not our business to be perfect. It is only the Infinite's job to worry about perfection.

Guess how that premie responded to me!? He said if I had really realized Knowledge then I should please give satsang.

Well, what you have to say in your post, and in your letter to Maharaji is satsang to my ears. What you are expressing is what truly unites us. The quest for the holy grail can never unite us. Yes, that quest can instruct us. But the message we eventually learn is self-acceptance. Acceptance of other people. Acceptance of the universe the way it is. And a lovely feeling of unity. Which is all we ever really wanted in the first place!!

Mr. Rawat - listen to what the exes are saying. We are NOT broken. We do not need you to fix us, nor to belittle us. We do not need to go on sticking our thumbs in our ears for 15 minutes every day. We know our own heart, in silence. We realize our oneness with each other. We respect life as it is. We are humble to the higher power, whatever it may be. We are grateful. We are at peace. We are fulfilled. We owe you nothing.

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Date: Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 16:07:25 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Hang on a minute
Message:
This is supposed to be a hate site! Stop all this niceness and start insulting someone.

No but really. Premies are great. I love them. Aren't they lovely, sincere people. The best bunch of people I ever met!

And Maharaji's quite handsome in some of the photographs. And he's got nice hair and a nice smile. His voice cuts straight through to the heart with such clarity. Such charisma and charm to come from one person. And he's clever too.

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Date: Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 19:12:20 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: and His Holeyness is completely sincere
Message:
He really believes that K works better than cat-stroking and that he has a MISSION.

Okay so the mission has ''evolved'' from the Peace Bomb to ''Does everyone need K? Maybe yes, maybe no. But they all need the tongue-in-cheek technique to understand what You Know Who is saying about You Know What.''

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Date: Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 15:20:47 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Excellent summary, Way NT
Message:
ddddd
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Date: Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 08:49:04 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: But the bottom line is that you cannot be saved
Message:
without the help of the Master whose purity should not be doubted.

''Belief is relief'' - His Holeyness the Very Reverend Prempal Singh Rawat, Fiji, 2000.

Well I guess I won't be saved. Who cares. I always preferred being spent anyway.

Thanks guys for a most entertaining and enlightening thread which contained no hate-filled tirades but only playful, intelligent satire.

Poor Mr R! He's got everything that any Californian could ever desire (except a good figure) but he no longer has us. I guess he will just have to console himself with Herr Schmidtz, Mother Belkis Shah, Major Whitewash Whittaker and the other industrial strength sycophantic church ladies with whom he has surrounded himself.

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Date: Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 09:55:29 (GMT)
From: Tim Matheson
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Welcome, Mr. Movement
Message:
Glad to see you at my site.

(http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/ilovemaharaji
We lovers of OUR LORD MAHARAJI need you here though to counteract the forces of evil. I don't know how you got the idea I was J-M though. If you spend a few hours reading through this site(EPO), you'll see J-M is no longer mesmerized by OUR LORD like we are.

Come here, state your case and watch as HIS BRILLIANCE comes through your keyboard.

Watch out for Sandy though. He can be somewhat of a bulldog!

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Date: Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 08:01:32 (GMT)
From: Hadijah
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Blow Job
Message:
No, I'm not about to admit that the Lord of the Universe invited me into a broom cupboard for a 5 second blow job, and I then inseminated myself with his sperm and now have a love child ... that was Boris Becker.

But, I digress ... I was flicking through these slides that I found and there was one of the darshan line and the bestowing of 'Holy Breath'. It took me back ... do you remember how we used to patiently wait our turn and then expectantly shuffle our way slowly, one by one, down the blue tunnel until it opened out and there he was ... and we all got to kiss his silk covered feet ... and those not totally overwhelmed by this amazing experience i.e. who had the 'presence of mind' to lift their right hand to their right ear received a little puff of 'holy' breath in their direction.

What the hell was that all about?

And, whilst on the subject ... why did the darshan line always run right to left?

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Date: Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 10:29:35 (GMT)
From: wolfie
Email: None
To: Hadijah
Subject: in Malaga once, we had it left to right n/t
Message:
mmm
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Date: Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 08:25:19 (GMT)
From: such
Email: None
To: Hadijah
Subject: rt to left darshan? rt hand to rt ear dynamics (nt
Message:
nt
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