Ex-Premie Forum 6 Archive
From: Jul 14, 2001 To: Aug 11, 2001 Page: 4 of: 5


Francesca :C) -:- Sir Dave: Picture links -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 18:32:46 (EDT)
__ Sir Dave -:- Who else has this problem? [nt] -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 21:42:32 (EDT)
__ __ Bin Liner -:- Me too -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 22:25:14 (EDT)
__ __ __ gerry -:- Bin, Fran, can you see this? -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 22:47:50 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Bin Liner -:- I see Yahoo search page [nt] -:- Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 11:33:19 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Don't bother about Gerry's pic -:- Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 05:40:51 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Francesca :C) -:- Neither works -:- Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 13:03:09 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- Same for me, doesn't work Nt -:- Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 13:07:56 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Here it is as a jpeg -:- Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 10:11:41 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Francesca :C) -:- I see a square -:- Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 12:58:48 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- Again, same for me, just a square nt -:- Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 13:08:49 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- I see that fine [nt] -:- Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 10:30:19 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ janet -:- Re: Bin, Fran, can you see this? -:- Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 03:05:37 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Francesca :C) -:- Just a geocities page -:- Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 00:06:03 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Barry -:- Re: Just a geocities page -:- Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 00:24:42 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- geocities links must be html -:- Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 00:38:50 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Me Too.... -:- Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 12:32:58 (EDT)

Pauline Premie -:- I am so grateful -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 18:19:35 (EDT)
__ wolfie -:- so much tender loving care -:- Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 07:06:53 (EDT)
__ Simon Satsang -:- Jezabel! -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 21:29:02 (EDT)
__ Barry -:- Are you blind and deaf? -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 19:14:15 (EDT)
__ __ CD -:- Re: Are you ??? -:- Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 00:05:57 (EDT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- But you ARE a ghost, CD! -:- Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 01:13:19 (EDT)
__ __ __ Barry -:- Always, but in a good way (nt) -:- Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 00:25:50 (EDT)
__ __ Bin Liner -:- Doh!! Who tuned your antenna ? :) [nt] -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 19:23:12 (EDT)
__ __ __ Barry -:- Debate @ anything goes/is Jim an idiot? -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 19:33:12 (EDT)
__ __ JHB -:- ROTFL! -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 19:21:36 (EDT)
__ __ __ Barry -:- Thanks John!nt -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 19:25:46 (EDT)
__ __ Pauline Premie -:- A Suggestion -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 19:20:48 (EDT)
__ __ __ Barry -:- Jim? are you Pauline?(nt) -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 19:26:54 (EDT)
__ __ Barry -:- wait a minute... -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 19:20:12 (EDT)
__ __ __ Simon Satsang -:- You're right -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 21:40:42 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Barry -:- Ha ha ha haha!(nt) -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 23:44:04 (EDT)

Barry -:- Sir David/good job!(ot) -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 17:57:34 (EDT)
__ Sir Dave -:- Re: Sir David/good job!(ot) -:- Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 08:58:33 (EDT)

Elan Vital -:- A New Press Release -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 16:37:50 (EDT)
__ Bai Ghosh Ji -:- Press Release from DUO-Bharat -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 19:36:12 (EDT)
__ __ E Bai Gum-Ladd -:- Re: Press Release from DUO-Bharat -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 21:46:15 (EDT)
__ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Wondered where you've been, E Bai Gumm-Ladd -:- Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 00:41:43 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Mahatma Coat -:- Re: Wondered where you've been, E Bai Gumm-Ladd -:- Fri, Aug 10, 2001 at 11:53:18 (EDT)

gerry -:- this sounds familiar -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 12:45:21 (EDT)
__ gerry -:- jeepers, f'ing creepers! -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 12:52:14 (EDT)
__ __ Deborah -:- Re: jeepers, f'ing creepers! -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 14:49:26 (EDT)
__ __ __ gerry -:- Can he do this? -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 15:43:42 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ gerry -:- You can see this one -:- Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 11:11:32 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Deborah -:- Re: I can only see square/broken image -:- Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 14:32:19 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Re: I can only see square/broken image -:- Fri, Aug 10, 2001 at 21:10:15 (EDT)
__ __ Cynthia -:- Where does EV's Press Release.... -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 13:10:44 (EDT)
__ __ __ such -:- press release can be republished -:- Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 02:22:53 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Deborah -:- So, does that mean -:- Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 15:29:00 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Why Not? -:- Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 16:14:25 (EDT)
__ __ __ Francesca :C) -:- GREAT point, Cynthia -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 14:03:49 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Re: GREAT point, Cynthia -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 15:31:12 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Timmi -:- Re: GREAT point, Cynthia -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 20:27:51 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- To: Timmi-link (I hope it works) -:- Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 12:59:13 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Sally Jesse Raphael -Zelda -:- Re: GREAT point, Cynthia -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 16:37:09 (EDT)

Reuters -:- Philip Morris sues former executive! -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 12:40:07 (EDT)

from Susan -:- Susan's response to EV -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 09:41:22 (EDT)
__ Why this is not pointless -:- read about this case -:- Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 11:06:19 (EDT)
__ silvia -:- Sorry, never mind my post below -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 15:49:21 (EDT)
__ Silvia -:- I noticed something -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 14:17:44 (EDT)
__ Joe -:- Well Done, Susan... -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 13:45:45 (EDT)
__ BeenThereDoneThat -:- Re: Susan's response to EV -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 13:17:06 (EDT)
__ __ Cynthia -:- To: BeenThereDoneThat -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 15:38:55 (EDT)
__ __ __ BeenThereDoneThat -:- Re: To: BeenThereDoneThat -:- Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 01:42:28 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Re: To: BeenThereDoneThat -:- Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 12:21:57 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ wolfie :D -:- Re: To: BeenThereDoneThat -:- Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 11:38:46 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Just read your post, BTDT - thanks -:- Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 04:09:58 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ BTDT -:- Re: Just read your post, BTDT - thanks -:- Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 09:39:04 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- BTDT - yes they do -:- Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 14:36:27 (EDT)
__ Cynthia -:- This is truely bizarre -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 12:22:49 (EDT)
__ Richard -:- Brava Susan -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 11:01:59 (EDT)
__ __ Jim -:- Yes, of course -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 11:30:56 (EDT)
__ __ __ silvia -:- If EV is truthful (nt) -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 14:19:04 (EDT)
__ __ __ Francesca -:- Absolutely, Jim, Abi, Joe, Richard, J-M etc. -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 11:56:49 (EDT)
__ __ __ Richard -:- The end of Elan Vital? -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 11:46:08 (EDT)
__ Bjørn E -:- I think that makes sense ... -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 10:29:39 (EDT)

Mr. Mind -:- EV/Maharaji's strategy -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 06:24:34 (EDT)
__ Francesca :C) -:- You could be right! [nt] -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 11:59:57 (EDT)

Jean-Michel -:- May I suggest 1 thing re the Jagdeo issue? -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 04:56:11 (EDT)
__ Deborah -:- Feature story in Newsletter -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 12:44:00 (EDT)
__ __ Mr. Mind -:- Maharaji Watch or -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 16:31:29 (EDT)
__ __ __ Deborah -:- Re: Maharaji Watch or -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 22:39:52 (EDT)
__ __ JHB (EPO Webmaster) -:- Re: Feature story in Newsletter -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 16:17:12 (EDT)
__ __ __ Deborah -:- Re: Feature story in Newsletter -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 22:36:41 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ la-ex -:- Title?...Maharaji:Revealing the Truth... -:- Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 23:49:48 (EDT)
__ __ silvia -:- Newsletter -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 15:31:36 (EDT)
__ __ __ Deborah -:- Re: Newsletter -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 23:32:03 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Silvia -:- Oh! -:- Sat, Aug 11, 2001 at 11:20:34 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ me again -:- One other suggestion -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 23:33:55 (EDT)
__ JHB -:- Re: May I suggest 1 thing re the Jagdeo issue? -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 10:02:36 (EDT)
__ __ Jean-Michel -:- Re: May I suggest 1 thing re the Jagdeo issue? -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 10:16:23 (EDT)
__ janet -:- Re: May I suggest 1 thing re the Jagdeo issue? -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 07:03:58 (EDT)
__ __ Jean-Michel -:- Re: May I suggest 1 thing re the Jagdeo issue? -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 09:30:00 (EDT)
__ salam -:- Re: May I suggest 1 thing re the Jagdeo issue? -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 05:41:59 (EDT)

Barry -:- Where can I go? -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 04:43:22 (EDT)
__ Deborah -:- Re: You can hang around -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 12:51:18 (EDT)
__ __ Barry -:- Thanks Deb! Uvic eh? Cool! -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 14:15:23 (EDT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- Bazza ? -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 11:51:07 (EDT)
__ __ janet -:- Re: Bazza ? -:- Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 16:17:57 (EDT)
__ __ Barry -:- I'll check it, but evryone says your an imposter! -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 14:17:03 (EDT)
__ __ Barry -:- I'll check it, but evryone says your an imposter! -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 14:16:58 (EDT)
__ __ JHB -:- Not Bazza! -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 12:02:04 (EDT)
__ __ __ Barry -:- What? (nt) -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 14:18:22 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Francesca :C) -:- Let me 'splain -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 15:14:13 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Barry -:- You have a point! -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 19:23:08 (EDT)
__ Richard -:- We love you man -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 10:36:23 (EDT)
__ __ Barry -:- Ok! But..... -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 14:20:56 (EDT)
__ JHB -:- Don't go to the Latvian forum! -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 09:57:47 (EDT)
__ __ Barry -:- ummmm?.....alright(nt)! -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 14:22:54 (EDT)
__ Jim -:- Go to Anthing Goes, of course [nt] -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 09:38:48 (EDT)
__ Jethro -:- Why don't you -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 05:07:06 (EDT)
__ __ Barry -:- Ha Ha Ha Ha! -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 14:25:46 (EDT)
__ __ __ Jethro -:- It's easy to make a fool laugh -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 17:50:55 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Barry -:- it's easier to make a prude embarrassed! (nt) -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 18:07:32 (EDT)

Richard II -:- Too fucking much!! -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 03:46:47 (EDT)
__ Nigel -:- Re: Too fucking much - absolutely!! -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 20:28:56 (EDT)
__ such -:- a mirror: -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 13:50:14 (EDT)
__ la-ex -:- The answer my friend...is in the truth -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 12:52:10 (EDT)
__ __ salam -:- Re: The answer my friend...is in the truth -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 23:51:44 (EDT)
__ __ __ la-ex -:- Salam, my e-mail didn't go through nt -:- Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 00:49:53 (EDT)
__ Cynthia -:- To: Richard II -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 12:27:21 (EDT)
__ JHB -:- Re: Too fucking much!! -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 10:21:17 (EDT)
__ janet -:- Re: Too fucking much!! -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 07:11:05 (EDT)
__ __ Joey -:- Re: Too fucking much!! -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 09:08:19 (EDT)
__ Abi -:- Jagdeo the child rapist -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 04:24:01 (EDT)
__ __ Richard II -:- My response -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 16:13:47 (EDT)
__ __ __ Deborah -:- FA/JHB:This is pure harrassment -:- Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 17:20:54 (EDT)
__ __ __ Abi -:- Re: My response -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 23:25:19 (EDT)
__ __ __ Bon Liner -:- ......potential repercussions down the road.... -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 20:16:59 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Richard II -:- Re: ......potential repercussions -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 20:47:58 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Deborah -:- Hey councillor! er I mean paedophile defender -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 23:47:06 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Observer -:- Coward R2 IS Glasser? NT -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 23:00:00 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Abi -:- Re: Coward R2 IS Glasser? NT -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 23:29:41 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ R2 -:- Not quite -:- Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 12:52:14 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Abi -:- Re: Not quite -:- Fri, Aug 10, 2001 at 11:43:16 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ BTDT -:- Re: Not quite -:- Fri, Aug 10, 2001 at 14:31:32 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Observer -:- Challenge to multi-alias coward R2 -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 23:20:16 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- Horse hockey! -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 22:36:22 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Bin Liner -:- So , she's shot herself in the foot....... -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 22:15:03 (EDT)
__ __ __ Cynthia -:- Silence is Deadly... -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 17:30:03 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Richard II -:- Silence is sometimes a wise decision -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 17:40:53 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Re: Silence is sometimes a wise decision -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 18:06:38 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Richard II -:- Truth? -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 18:29:50 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Re: Truth? -:- Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 12:48:14 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Deborah -:- Chickie? -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 23:51:06 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Beautiful... -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 22:07:07 (EDT)
__ __ CD -:- Re: -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 05:29:00 (EDT)
__ __ __ Abi -:- Re: -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 15:29:50 (EDT)
__ __ Tonette -:- Retired Pediophile? -:- Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 04:49:08 (EDT)


Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 18:32:46 (EDT)
From: Francesca :C)
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Sir Dave: Picture links
Message:
Sir Dave,

So far, I have NEVER had a picture link work in any of the posts. Either nothing or an 'x.' Click on it and nothing. What gives?

Even the ones you've posted I can't get to. Clue me in!

bests, Francesca

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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 21:42:32 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com
To: Francesca :C)
Subject: Who else has this problem? [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 22:25:14 (EDT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Me too
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 22:47:50 (EDT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Bin Liner
Subject: Bin, Fran, can you see this?
Message:
NT
[ Pic link ]
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Date: Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 11:33:19 (EDT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: I see Yahoo search page [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 05:40:51 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com
To: gerry
Subject: Don't bother about Gerry's pic
Message:
it's a bmp file and you won't see that. You can only link to jpg or gif pic files here. Try this pic and this other linked pic.
[ Sex position #57 ]
[ Graphic Link ]
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Date: Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 13:03:09 (EDT)
From: Francesca :C)
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Neither works
Message:
one is the square within a square (attached image)

the link is to a geocities page that says what you linked to can't be found (attached link)

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Date: Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 13:07:56 (EDT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Francesca :C)
Subject: Same for me, doesn't work Nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 10:11:41 (EDT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Here it is as a jpeg
Message:
Sorry about the bitmap. It's jpegs from now on. I promise.
[ Graphic Link ]
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Date: Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 12:58:48 (EDT)
From: Francesca :C)
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: I see a square
Message:
with another square inside with an 'X' in it. What gives?

Bests, F

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Date: Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 13:08:49 (EDT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Francesca :C)
Subject: Again, same for me, just a square nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 10:30:19 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com
To: gerry
Subject: I see that fine [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 03:05:37 (EDT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Re: Bin, Fran, can you see this?
Message:
i get a refused access popup
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Date: Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 00:06:03 (EDT)
From: Francesca :C)
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Just a geocities page
Message:
I just get a geocities page where the picture is not available. But believe me, that's better'n nothing, I guess.

Thanks for trying!
Francesca

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Date: Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 00:24:42 (EDT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Francesca :C)
Subject: Re: Just a geocities page
Message:
Same here!
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Date: Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 00:38:50 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: geocities links must be html
Message:
Linking to a jpeg or gif or other graphic is verboten on geocities. The jpg must be embedded in an html page.
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Date: Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 12:32:58 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Me Too....
Message:
I have never seen a pix, anad when I click on the links, I get nothing but the Yahoo page.
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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 18:19:35 (EDT)
From: Pauline Premie
Email: None
To: All
Subject: I am so grateful
Message:
By the grace of the Speaker, who is so caring to give his time, free of charge, to speak on behalf of a number of organizations, about that love, that truth, that gift, that love and that experience, I now have a blissful new place to live. So, by the grace of the master who is not and never said he was God, I am now crashing with a blissful married premie couple, Steve and Joan, and their four kids, Darshan, Satganga, and Devotion, who are in their 20s, and their 3-year-old girl, Gratitute. I am not supposed to be using their Internet service, but by the grace of he whom we should not judge by his successful lifestyle, they have jobs and aren't home.

Anyhow, I saw the Elan Vital Press Release and FAQs, and I think all you ex-premies must really feel put in your place by how masterful they are. What more explanation could you need than that? I'm just so blissed out that Elan Vital, to which I send $50 every month so they can more actively squealch these awful ex-premie websites, is now stating their support for free speech and speaking out and defending that love, that truth and that gift, from all you miserable, negative people who are so attached to the materialism of this world (so unlike Maharaji), and so negative.

I hope that he FAQs will help you and others have that understanding that all that stuff about Maharaji being God (which he never said he was), arti, feet-kissing, ashrams and all that stuff was just due to those confused Indian and Western premies, who literally forced he who says he is an ordinary person, to wear crowns and have people worship him.

And Jagdeo didn't do anything wrong, and if he did, Maharaji knew nothing about it and neither did anyone else associated with Elan Vital, DLM, DUO, EV(UK), EV Australia or any of those other organizations which have no members anyway, so how could anyone know, when no one is there? God, you ex-premies are dense.

And I know that if it weren't for the ashrams, thousands more people would have died in the drug culture. It's just so obvious how helpful they were in saving people, by the grace of the successful investor, and it's true, several state legislatures even recognized it. They really saw the gift of the ashram as what saved lives. God, you are such ingrates to not be thanking Maharaji for the wonderful thing he did for you, allowing you to live a celibate and drug-free life for all those years, without the complications of family, friendd, career and education. Now of course, there is no 'drug culture' and so the ashrams aren't necessary. Maharaji was just so smart and kind to close them when he did.

You ex-premies should get lives. I was thinking just that the other day, as I spent the afternoon writing poetry to be displayed on Enjoyinglife.com and when I was scrubbing the driveway of the Master's driveway with a toothbrush.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 07:06:53 (EDT)
From: wolfie
Email: None
To: Pauline Premie
Subject: so much tender loving care
Message:
:C)Yeah and God manifested himself and when he would have had come one year later......it would have been too late. It's beyond my imagination what would have happened, just one year....I think the world would not circle around in space anymore. I think your 50 $ a month was really a good investment +)
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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 21:29:02 (EDT)
From: Simon Satsang
Email: premie@nothingschanged.com
To: Pauline Premie
Subject: Jezabel!
Message:
You dare to use the sacred name of Maharaji in the same sentence where you mentioned yourself! How could you pollute the sentence with such a piece of filth as yourself, I, ego. You disgust me except that I have given my disgust to HIM who has saved me from harlots like yourself.
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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 19:14:15 (EDT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Pauline Premie
Subject: Are you blind and deaf?
Message:
Just look at the button pic on the home page twit! Lord of the Universe! If thats not sayen your god I don't know what is. besides, he did say he was god at other times. My friend Jim played me a vidio of this go-nad at his US visit, and he said point blank he was god. I don't know the much about this other person accused of what-ever, but he's in ca-hoots with Lord Pimpola he must be fucken up someplace! whats this? 'I am not sapose to be using their internet service, but by the grace of he who we should not judge by his successful life style etc..' What? If these folks are so kind to let you crash, then maybe you should leave their personal shit alone. Or are you saying you can do anything you feel like because your in with Muffle-butt? Your Leader is a fraud. He is human like you. no special powers or connections with god at all. How can you be so dunce to give up your life to another human being? You'd fair well in prison I can tell you that. There's lots of gurus in there that would love to own your ass too! get real, get out, be what you were meant to be...a human being living a good life. Loving others like you would like to be loved yourself. thats it. you don't need to be forking over all your money or your life to some pimp for your own self worth. You are worth just as much as him or any other independant human being. Or of coause you can disregaurd all I've said, and everyone else here, and go on being a zombie, but I wish you would'nt. because when it's all over and if we do end up some place with some sort of concious memory....well your gonna have so much regret for the very short time you were allowed here.
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Date: Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 00:05:57 (EDT)
From: CD
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: Re: Are you ???
Message:
Having conversations with ghosts these days?
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Date: Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 01:13:19 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: CD
Subject: But you ARE a ghost, CD!
Message:
Hey, asshole, when have you ever had a real conversation with anyone these past years that you've been posting? The best you've got is perhaps a few lines, maybe relevant, probably not, never enough, always vague and evasive. You know I'm right too.
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Date: Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 00:25:50 (EDT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: CD
Subject: Always, but in a good way (nt)
Message:
sss
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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 19:23:12 (EDT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: Doh!! Who tuned your antenna ? :) [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 19:33:12 (EDT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Bin Liner
Subject: Debate @ anything goes/is Jim an idiot?
Message:
'Bang' has started this perplexing question. And I have become head of the panel. anthing goes!
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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 19:21:36 (EDT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: ROTFL!
Message:
Barry,

Pauline is a spoof (is this an American or Canadian word?):-)

John the kind to those not in the know

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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 19:25:46 (EDT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Thanks John!nt
Message:
sss
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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 19:20:48 (EDT)
From: Pauline Premie
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: A Suggestion
Message:
I think you are very confused. I suggest you go over to the Elan Vital website (www.elanvital.org) and download the beautiful and very informative introductory brochure available there. It will answer many of your confusions.

Also, on the Visions website, which you can link to from the Elan Vital website, you can order a watch for $600 that reminds you to breathe every time you look at it. I love mine. Without it, I would forget that breath so much.

I think those things would help a lot. Also, go see a video of Maharaji in your community. There are numbers you can call on the website for more information.

Good luck.

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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 19:26:54 (EDT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Pauline Premie
Subject: Jim? are you Pauline?(nt)
Message:
wwww
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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 19:20:12 (EDT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: wait a minute...
Message:
This person can't be real...they are to stupid even for human kind.
Washing the masters driveway with a tooth brush..c'mon! who is this?
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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 21:40:42 (EDT)
From: Simon Satsang
Email: premie@nothingschanged.com
To: Barry
Subject: You're right
Message:
Pauline Premie is not real. She's a damn fake and a whore. A true premie would lick the master's drive clean and be overcome with clarity and gratitude. Only a fake would use a toothbrush.
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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 23:44:04 (EDT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Simon Satsang
Subject: Ha ha ha haha!(nt)
Message:
eeee
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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 17:57:34 (EDT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Sir David/good job!(ot)
Message:
David! your grassy knole site is really funny!
I cracked up when I saw the Selene and Jim thing!
truly man..I was on the floor.The pics are really hillarios as well, the whole thing is really good.
Thanks for the laughs man.
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Date: Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 08:58:33 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com
To: Barry
Subject: Re: Sir David/good job!(ot)
Message:
Thanks. Make sure you go to Maharaji's toilet while you're there.
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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 16:37:50 (EDT)
From: Elan Vital
Email: None
To: All
Subject: A New Press Release
Message:
PRESS RELEASE

It has come to our attention that a number of anonymous persons have made scurrilous, outrageous, conflicting, spurious, outrageous, ungrammatical, ungraceful, rodent-infested, icky and false statements about the press release of Linda Gross on the Elan Vital Website. We found those statements disconcerting. Elan Vital is even more disconcerted now than when we found out that one of the alleged victims was talking to communists. We have become so disconcerted that Elan Vital would like to state our position clearly once again:

The victims have not flown to our offices in Agoura Hills, California, stood on their heads, prostrated before us, and begged for our attention. Moreoever, they have suggested that child sexual molestation has been going on within inside Elan Vital. We at Elan Vital found these actions and inactions disconcerting, to say the least and Elan Vital is once again an innocent victim, as is Maharaji, who is also quite disconcerted at the moment, let us assure you. In fact, he was so disconcerted that he didn't even want to fly his helicopter from his delapitaded house in the slums of Malibu, to land on the new heliport on his $7 million yacht in the Pacific. That gives you some idea of the pain these heartless, alleged victims of child sexual molestation have incurred.

Our inquiry into all this, which we at Elan Vital were not legally required to do, we might add, which was conducted over the course of nearly two days, and consisted of several telephone calls and emails. Several of our calls were unreturned, and Jagdeo inexplicably has denied the allegations. We can only conclude the allegations are unfounded.

Moreoever, the alleged victims have been talking to people we at Elan Vital don't like. For example, we heard one alleged victim was talking to a COMMUNIST, a COMMUNIST French magazine which advocates a law in France we at Elan Vital don't like either. Did we mention that it is a COMMUNIST magazine, and that it's FRENCH?? Elan Vital finds it disconcerting that the alleged victim has negotiated with known, card-carrying, FRENCH COMMUNISTS. We at Elan Vital are disconcerted about this.

To the best of Elan Vital's knowledge, Jagdeo Upadhaya is living in Buxar in the Indian State of Bihar, or possibly some other obscure place no one has ever heard of. You may find it difficult to see how Elan Vital has any knowledge of this, since Jagdeo Upadhaya has 'not been seen since' he left the DUO ashram at Mehrauli, India, in 1999, but we at Elan Vital need to protect our asses, and consistency has never been one of our strong points, especially when we get very disconcerted, which the alleged victims have made us. They disconcerted us a lot and hence it is their fault.

Despite having no evidence, and not knowing where he is, or what happened, DUO in India has sued Jagdeo Upadhaya for 'inappropriate and tortuous behavior' and that he breached his duty to Elan Vital. Elan Vital has no knowledge of what the behavior might have been, or whether it happened, and we think the victims, who would be the witnesses, are very disconcerting in the way they have associated with COMMUNISTS and all, but we figure, hey, if any of it's true, which it probably isn't, we should at least act like we are doing something. After all, maybe Jagdeo has a few bucks we can collect to cover the expenses we have incurred, which is very disconcerting, you know. Unfortunately, Jagdeo hasn't been seen since 1999, so we probably won't bother trying to serve him with the complaint, if and when it ever gets filed. You know, things are fucking slow in India.

EVI has not harbored this man, nor has EVI bayed, rivered, oceaned, or laked him either. EVI has not kept Jagdeo Upadhaya in any body of water whatsoever. Anyone who claims otherwise is engaging in false and defamatory innuendo.

Sincerely (sic),

Linda Gross
Erstwhile lawyer and President of Elan Vital

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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 19:36:12 (EDT)
From: Bai Ghosh Ji
Email: None
To: Elan Vital
Subject: Press Release from DUO-Bharat
Message:
By golly and by his almighty, kind and merciful grace, we humble premies here in Bharat (India for you ignorant and arrogant westerners) have had the divine agya given to us to chase down and snare once and by golly for all time that ignacious pediofiliac, Mahatma Jagdeo Ji, who it seems has very upset the Perfect Master Balyogeshwar.

BUt I must be honestly truthful to you from the foot of my heart because it truly makes me very sad because this poor old man worked for many years in the service of the almighty Lord for very little fiduciary recompanese and no real salary ever which by golly and by his wisdom and grace was always forthcoming for the greedy western premies.

Some cynical peoples here in Bharat are even saying that DUO is making this legality move for very spurious reasonings and that nothing will ever come of it. Why, some horrible communist politician from Uttar has even said that this is a movement designed to forestalling all future criticizings of the DUO so that when the time comes for the government to investigate DUo then Duo will be able to say but we sued the pediofilac. Some even say he will die before that happens but it will make DUO and His Holeyness look clean and above the sideboard. Some peolle are so cynical.

By his infinite grace I see that some western premies are not so hard hearted and are still sweet and simple like dear Pauline Premie.

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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 21:46:15 (EDT)
From: E Bai Gum-Ladd
Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com
To: Bai Ghosh Ji
Subject: Re: Press Release from DUO-Bharat
Message:
Thems that has will tek more from thems that hasn't.
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Date: Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 00:41:43 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: E Bai Gum-Ladd
Subject: Wondered where you've been, E Bai Gumm-Ladd
Message:
And hoped that Bai Ghosh Ji would draw you out.
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Date: Fri, Aug 10, 2001 at 11:53:18 (EDT)
From: Mahatma Coat
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: Wondered where you've been, E Bai Gumm-Ladd
Message:
By his grace I am coming here to be telling you that myself, the esteemed Mahatma Coat is, how you say, miffed at you silly premie ji's. You are completely sychronizationally challenged posting in this way on this evil website. Surely Speakeryogeshwar will be very displeased. I'm too busy right now preparing for the EDP (Experience Darshan Project) at Client Lila Grounds in outskirts of Dehli to bother with you miscreants but if you send a bit of 'gratitude' my way, I will intercede on your behalf next time Divine Gulfstream GV flies overhead on way to visit money in Switzerland.

At the Lotus Bruno Maglias,

Mahatma Coat

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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 12:45:21 (EDT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: All
Subject: this sounds familiar
Message:
Yet another religious fraud. Interesting that the LA Times has an Indian writer in the religion department writing about religious scams. It would be a shame if he caught wind of the stinky little scandal brewing in Malibu.

Let's see...pedophilia, millionare lifestyle, strident opposition, car death scandal, drugs, mistresses, money improprieties...nah, they wouldn't be interested, would they?
[ Divine Scams ]

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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 12:52:14 (EDT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: jeepers, f'ing creepers!
Message:
Yet another religious fraud. Interesting that the LA Times has an Indian writer in the religion department writing about religious scams. It would be a shame if he caught wind of the stinky little scandal brewing in Malibu.

Let's see...pedophilia, millionare lifestyle, strident opposition, car death scandal, drugs, mistresses, money improprieties...nah, they wouldn't be interested, would they?


---

Well Duh!

THE TABLOIDS

OF COURSE, THEY'LL EAT IT UP!!!

What could possibly be more embarrassing for the cult than to have Goober in his Krishna suit on the cover of The Weekly World and the whole sordid story splashed inside.

I'm a genius... But lazy. Janet, get it on it immediately. Over.

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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 14:49:26 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: stars@uvic.ca
To: gerry
Subject: Re: jeepers, f'ing creepers!
Message:
I have the perfect tabloid writer in mind. I'll email you a copy of an article she wrote. Email me and I'll prove it. I've been busy and have time to write but I will in due time.

Perhaps you can assist me.

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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 15:43:42 (EDT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: Can he do this?
Message:

[ Graphic Link ]
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Date: Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 11:11:32 (EDT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: You can see this one
Message:

[ Graphic Link ]
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Date: Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 14:32:19 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Re: I can only see square/broken image
Message:
Gerry, i have never seen a pic when you post pics. Do other people see anything. Your links work, but no pics.
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Date: Fri, Aug 10, 2001 at 21:10:15 (EDT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: Re: I can only see square/broken image
Message:
yeah, I can see them and Sir Dave said he could. The earlier one I linked was a bitmap. Then I mad it a jpeg. Care for a gif instead?

I don' the know answer. I wish I did, it's a good one. Ask salam maybe.

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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 13:10:44 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Where does EV's Press Release....
Message:
get released to?

Is it just published on their web page? Or is it an actual press release like major corporations make to the mainstream press, or to no one at all?

If they call it a press release, why can't it be forwarded to any major news organization with EPOs background information?

I can't believe that turd sitting on the Malibu bluffs can get away with this stinking 'PR' stuff, and not get questioned about it.

What can be done? If it's a bona fide press release, does EV still own it if someone were to forward it to the major tv networks, print press?

Feeling incensed and sick over this....
Cynthia

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Date: Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 02:22:53 (EDT)
From: such
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: press release can be republished
Message:
A press release is for public consumption, and any media may republish it verbatim in full, naming the source. 'press'= for the media and public; 'release' = a release + dissemination. By its nature, a press release implies no usage restrictions or conditions [unless a courtesy release date is requested for timely publication/broadcasting]

Once a press release has been issued, it is virtually impossible to restrict its usage by others thereafter in any way.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 15:29:00 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: such
Subject: So, does that mean
Message:
We can have the local papers publish that with a story about the sexual abuses of Jagdeo and Maha and how they are hypocritical in their approach?
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Date: Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 16:14:25 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: Why Not?
Message:
EV opened the door. It's a press release. I've written countless letter to the editor on many topics.

If the paper doesn't print it, call them and ask why. Letters to the editors can often be expanded to various columns, too. That's if the editor is interested enough in the story to give you enough print space.

Letters to the editor are great openers for public discussion, in my experience.

Cynthia

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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 14:03:49 (EDT)
From: Francesca :C)
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: GREAT point, Cynthia
Message:
Duh, yeah. How dumb of me. A real press release is released to the press, i.e. all the media outlets. It's not just stuck up on a website, although that is nice too. In the case of EV, I think you've called their bluff, and the 'press release' was mostly for the premies and us. They probably just posted it on the 'net. I doubt they would've given it to Combat or Australia's version of 60 minutes, for example, because they'd get some negative press generated from their lies about Abi.

So EV probably just puts the press stuff on its site in case anyone, including the press surfs on in to their website, otherwise leave well enough alone. Unless of course, a $70,000 one-page ad in LeMonde is called for. But only if someone ELSE has stirred up the press.

Wouldn't it be just fucking hillarious if someone actually gave this press release to the press and EV raised a stink?

IMHO try not to get too sick over all this, because that is one thing the Satgooroo and his crew seem to be the eternal source of . . . things that make you go hurl. In other words, there's plenty more where that came from, and no end in sight. Put on the gas mask or the stench'll get to ya.

Love, Francesca

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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 15:31:12 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Francesca :C)
Subject: Re: GREAT point, Cynthia
Message:
I printed it off the website and I nearly hurled! Looking at it from the perspective of an abuse survivor, this latest stunt has me furious!

I am more furious than ill, but thanks for the advice:) My fury over this issue is based in personal experience. What EV is doing to Abi and Susan is heinous, shameless, and filled with lies. How dare they!!!

SHAME ON YOU LINDA GROSS! SHAME ON YOU EV LAWYERS!

ESPECIALLY....SHAME ON YOU MAHARAJI! YOU GUTLESS SOB!

Love to you Francesca
Cynthia, (smile) Press release my arse!

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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 20:27:51 (EDT)
From: Timmi
Email: timmi56@yahoo.com
To: Cynthia
Subject: Re: GREAT point, Cynthia
Message:
I can't seem to find the Press Release, though I read it yesterday! Must be old age or old eyes. I'd like to print it out and maybe see if the local newspaper is interested. Or I may write something for the paper myself! Can someone send me the press release site, please? Thank ye kindly.
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Date: Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 12:59:13 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Timmi
Subject: To: Timmi-link (I hope it works)
Message:
Here's the address:

http://www.elanvital.org/press_releases/pr-8-7-2001-1.html

Good luck!

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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 16:37:09 (EDT)
From: Sally Jesse Raphael -Zelda
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Re: GREAT point, Cynthia
Message:
I was thiniking it would be really neat if the EV press release WAS let out to the major newspapers first. Then the power would be the Exs hands -in the form of a rebuttal.
Because what they have written is so weak - it would be very effective to REBUT to craven whoreji.
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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 12:40:07 (EDT)
From: Reuters
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Philip Morris sues former executive!
Message:
Philip Morris, the world's leading cigarette company, today announced that it was suing Mr. I. Smoketoomuch, a former executive of Philip Morris, for withholding information that smoking cigarettes causes cancer.

In the same announcement, Philip Morris blasted those former smokers who were dying of cancer for daring to ask for damages. A spokeswoman, Linda I. Onlysmokegrass, said 'I hope that this action will prove to one and all that we are a responsible company who want to do the right thing. So all our detractors should now shut up.'

Reuters, 8th August 2001

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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 09:41:22 (EDT)
From: from Susan
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Susan's response to EV
Message:
To whom it may concern:

I am writing to express my disgust at how you are treating Jagdeo’s victim, Abigail Bray. Whatever requests she may have made for compensation are small when compared to Jagdeo’s abuse of her. I have no respect or trust for anyone involved in the decision to revictimize and humiliate Abi in your pathetic attempts to deflect the responsibility Elan Vital and Maharaji have in allowing Jagdeo access to children for so many years.

If it is true that DUO India is suing Jagdeo I would like to offer whatever help I can. I offer this despite my disgust for your organization. I do not know if perhaps you have uncovered more victims in India, but my report of what happened to me in 1977 and what I knew of happening to others might be of use in any attempt to bring Jagdeo to justice. If you really cared about Abi you would be asking her help too rather than attacking a victim who was so very hurt as a sincere child in your organization. That behavior on your part makes you look very evil indeed.

It has been repeatedly reported by EV that Jagdeo was never reported to the police. I did report Jagdeo to Kenneth Lanning of the FBI in a letter in 1999. However, I did not receive a response. I also called the Miami Police Dept. Coral Way Division, and attempted to report Jagdeo. Mr. Lanning did not answer my letter. I suspect because he may have been hesitant to investigate a 20 year old case in which the victim ( myself ) was not the victim most violated, did not know the last name of the perpetrator, no longer lived in the state the abuse occurred, and had no idea where the perpetrator lives, except it was likely in another hemisphere. For these reasons, the Miami PD were not anxious to take a report either. Sadly, child abuse is not rare, and it was hard for me to justify trying to force this issue any further knowing the dead ends these officers would face. But you are wrong, I did report it, my reports were apparently ignored.

Regarding my previous reports to you. Every word is true. I did report it to Randy Prouty and Judy Osborne as I described. I have no explanation for their inability to recall. Interestingly, I have two former premie friends who do recall my telling them both about Jagdeo and reporting him to Randy and Judy in the seventies and early eighties. I would be very cautious about the vehemence of your denials. I have a good memory and I remember well what happened. I am not mistaken on this and I do have some corroboration here.

Again I reiterate, I would be happy to meet with you, on the condition that I not be forced to meet with you alone. I would want a witness of my choosing. If you have any questions to ask regarding Jagdeo or my previous reports I am willing to answer them.

I hope you apologize to Abi for how horribly you have treated her. I also hope that instead of revictimizing us you realize that if you have a real shot at doing something about Jagdeo Abi and I are allies rather than enemies in that fight. You must start to walk your talk, and the first step would be to treat the victims of Jagdeo with kindness not humiliation.

Susan Haupt

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Date: Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 11:06:19 (EDT)
From: Why this is not pointless
Email: None
To: from Susan
Subject: read about this case
Message:
In Watson's case, Michael Egelhoff, who had been molested by him as an 11-year-old Little Leaguer in Riverside in 1975, was so haunted by that abuse that he asked a private detective to see if Watson was still coaching children. The incident had occurred 23 years before, and Egelhoff was now living in Portland, but his own two children were becoming increasingly active in sports, and the thought of them playing and the memory of what happened to him pushed Egelhoff to find his old seducer. 'It just really bugged me,' says Egelhoff. 'This guy had a mysterious way of brainwashing people, and I just kind of clammed up about it for many years. Something stuck in my brain, and it just kept nagging at me. ... Something kept telling me that this guy didn't quit.'

The detective called Egelhoff back two weeks later. 'I'm really happy you had me find the guy,' the investigator said. 'He's back in Little League.'

When word got around San Bernardino that Watson might have a history as a child molester, two members of the East Base Line Little League board, Tom and Dee Simanek, went to the San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department and called up Watson's name on the Megan's Law CD-ROM sex-offender registry. There he was, complete with his criminal record and even his picture, identified as a high-risk sex offender. 'I was hysterical,' Dee Simanek says. 'This man was in my house, he stayed in my house, and I just couldn't deal with it.'

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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 15:49:21 (EDT)
From: silvia
Email: None
To: from Susan
Subject: Sorry, never mind my post below
Message:
I realized when I read Joe's post below what is going on. Forget my my questions.
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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 14:17:44 (EDT)
From: Silvia
Email: None
To: from Susan
Subject: I noticed something
Message:
Hi Susan,

You posted:

If it is true that DUO India is suing Jagdeo I would like to offer whatever help I can.

Have EV said TO YOU this IN WRITTING? Was it said in a phone converstaion? I am curious to know about the validity of their statement.

No matter what maharaji thinks he is, ultimatley, specially when he became an adult it is/was s HIS the responsibility of anything that happens/ed with members who work close to him in his organization as a mahatma is/WAS. Don't let them ware you down. YOU HAVE RIGHTS. Don't let the burocracy of the gov. agencies tired you out either: Be persistent. Write the Prosecutor Attorney in your area and request guidance in what to do. Send the mail registred and ask the post office to stamp/date each page of your letter before sealing the envelope: You'll see how then you will receive an asnwer; they will take it very serioulsy. Play the game and if you don't know yet how to, read around the Net and learn; In my experience, I know most agencies workers try to get away with avoiding work.

I wish the best for you.

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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 13:45:45 (EDT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: from Susan
Subject: Well Done, Susan...
Message:
Once again, you demonstrate your dignity and integrity in the way you tell and truth and offer help to pursue Jagdeo. Unfortunately, telling the whole truth is not one of Elan Vital's strong points.

Hope you are doing well.

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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 13:17:06 (EDT)
From: BeenThereDoneThat
Email: None
To: from Susan
Subject: Re: Susan's response to EV
Message:
Currently, the numbers of people with knowledge and apirants in India are reported to be in the tens by tens of thousands. The last festival in India in November had staggering numbers in attendence. The western premies have family and friends in India too numberous to count. Is Elan Vital saying they do not have the resources to ask for help in finding Jagdeo? Are they saying they can't post his face on the weekly satellite feeds and daily videos? The Indian premies can do anything when Maharaji asks or even Ev. They are incredibly strong and resourceful, as seen at the events in India. There's nothing they can't do. If Elan Viatl is sincere, they can make the effort. They certainly ask us to make constant efforts in participation, financial contributions and propogation.
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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 15:38:55 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: BeenThereDoneThat
Subject: To: BeenThereDoneThat
Message:
Currently, the numbers of people with knowledge and apirants in India are reported to be in the tens by tens of thousands. The last festival in India in November had staggering numbers in attendence. The western premies have family and friends in India too numberous to count. Is Elan Vital saying they do not have the resources to ask for help in finding Jagdeo? Are they saying they can't post his face on the weekly satellite feeds and daily videos? The Indian premies can do anything when Maharaji asks or even Ev. They are incredibly strong and resourceful, as seen at the events in India. There's nothing they can't do. If Elan Viatl is sincere, they can make the effort. They certainly ask us to make constant efforts in participation, financial contributions and propogation.


---

Of course they can find Jagdeo. They probably already know where he is. This is nothing but a smear campaign against Susan and Abi.

I asked the question above: Is it a bona fide press release or does it just sit on EV's website?

I don't mean to sound angry at you, I'm not, don't even know who you are. Finding Jagdeo is not the point of this recent exercise in smoke and mirrors in the Maharajism cult.

It's an effort to place pressure on already stressed out survivors of that monster (Jagdeo) to come to them!

They've known about this problem for a very long time and now it's bitting them in the ass. They are working very hard at damage control, unfortunately, the damage is being done to the victims/survivors. Very hateful, indeed.

Cynthia

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Date: Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 01:42:28 (EDT)
From: BeenThereDoneThat
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Re: To: BeenThereDoneThat
Message:
Hi Cynthia,
I'm nobody special. I received knowledge in '74 and have had complete faith in Maharaji until I came upon this web site a short time ago. I had heard there was trouble of some sort in Mainz and tried to find out what the heck it was and why EV was offering counseling with Instructors if they were harmed by it. Well, this site is the only place that explained Mainz and holy smokes, quite a lot else. To say I've been in a strange state of shock is putting it mildly. I've been sorting through all your journeys and the histories of DLM/EV. I recognized several names that I did service with years ago and felt these people were speaking the truth on this site. Everything has come down to one point for me personally, either Maharaji is a perfect master or he isn't. This probably makes you gag but I'm nearly fifty years old. I've spent more than half my life with Maharaji and knowledge. I lived in a goofy kind of ashram. I went around the world for events. I did it all but not in the hard core way some people here did. My hat's definitely off to them.
This situation with Abi and Susan is indeed very serious. I think you are right....the press release stuff is probably in EV world only.
I called an Indian premie I've known for years and asked her what would she do if this had been her child, because we both have children. And it very easily could have been one of our children.
Without hesitation she said she would get word to Maharaji. She was quite surprized that didn't help. The next step would be to quietly go to India without telling EV and hunt him down. India, she said, is so different than the US. If anyone tipped him off, he'd be gone in a second. And the only way Indian premies would help would be if Maharaji asked them to specifically. Because the girls were not Indian, no one over there would care. This may sound harsh but she was absolutely sure on this point. Infact, premies would probably try to hide him and government officials could easily be boughten.
The EV lawsuit struck her as incredulous and ludicrous.
This evening I told my husband, -who received knowledge but can't stand satellites, videos or even practicing knowledge-he just liked going to see and hear Maharaji-he said without hesitation that Maharaji isn't taking care of this if EV isn't. And that for the victim's sanity, he needs to take care of it personally. He was stunned Maharaji hasn't taken care of it. He's been in corporate America, pretty much seen it all and said the lawsuit is just corporate tactics.
I remember recently Maharaji saying he once came back to Malibu early and thought he'd surprise kids, at least Amar, by hiding in the car when they were picked up from school. Amar came out of the school crying. Maharaji was not happy about that. He got out of the car and wanted to know why his son was crying. The teacher was so nervous, she held out her hand and said something to the effect, 'Hi, I'm Amar's mother.' So I take this that Maharaji gets more than a little furious when his son cries at school and yet Abi cried to his picture for help with all the innocence she could muster, lived with this, asked for his help and nothing comes of it? Who is important in this life then?
This is a long answer to your question. Really, I'm nobody special, not a pam, just a regular old premie with some very big questions indeed.
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Date: Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 12:21:57 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: BeenThereDoneThat
Subject: Re: To: BeenThereDoneThat
Message:
But you are somebody special. Your post was heartfelt and sincere.

One reason I get so angry about the Jagdeo issue is because child abuse of any kind is a very big issue here in the US.

Thank you for your post. I now have a better understanding about you and how you are feeling. That helps me much.

Best to you, hang around...
Cynthia Gracie

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Date: Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 11:38:46 (EDT)
From: wolfie :D
Email: None
To: BeenThereDoneThat
Subject: Re: To: BeenThereDoneThat
Message:
Hallo BTDT,

liked to read your post. I'm allways amaced how familiar it sounds what is expressed in the post. There are all this earnest people and there seems to be a lot of evidence that we were and still are fooled. I get in contact 73, just like you I never was a special one, somehow it never worked, even though I tried sometimes to do a lot of service, but somehow things were always a little bit to unclear, there were never clear answers and this stupid grace race was in my eys too strange.
On this website I found good and clear voices besides some dummies and trolls and I appriciate to get my information from this site and not from EV cause this is a faceless and anonym organisation for me. I'm 52, so I'm not a youngster anymore, my kids are now around that age when I recieved knowlege and now I would be bothered when they would go for devoting themselfes to MJ. My wife and I and two friends of us we were in Mainz. After the first evening at dinner three mothers of kids came to the same honest conclusion: Oh we are glad that we haven't brought our grown up kids to the programm. I mean they really wish the good things for their kids.

So sorry BTDT ( you named yourself 8))I would like to write more, but next week I will start my summer holdays and I still got million things to do.

nice to read your post.......ciao ...wolfie

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Date: Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 04:09:58 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: pdconlon@hotmail.com
To: BeenThereDoneThat
Subject: Just read your post, BTDT - thanks
Message:
Most of us here were just ordinary premies. Some got in deep and got out quick. Some just paddled in the shallow end and hung in for a long time, like you and a bunch of other newcomers here. I've only been on the forum 6 months and have seen at least six new posters arrive and stick around to talk.

Like you, I have Indian premie friends. It really is a lot different for most of them especially the more conservative Gujerati expats. Things that never bothered me (like Rev Rawat's boozing and Monica) bother them a lot. The only things that really bother me are the blondes and the hit and run and his total lack of concern for any sort of accountability whether it is the Jagdeo issue, or the revisionist fibs on his website or his iffily obtained wealth.

It also bothers me that he has washed his hands of those for whom he not only did no good but actually harmed through his irresponsible teachings or rather lack of teaching. If you stick around here long enough you will see what I mean when somebody discovers this forum and tells how they left 20 years ago but had suffered for years with dreadful superstitious fear of rotting and going to hell because they left or were driven away by the sick human relations in the cult or Rev Rawat's confusing, insouciant socalled ''non-religious'' religious concepts.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 09:39:04 (EDT)
From: BTDT
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: Just read your post, BTDT - thanks
Message:
Thank you! Do you know if the Indian premies you spoke of still follow Maharaji?
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Date: Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 14:36:27 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: BTDT
Subject: BTDT - yes they do
Message:
I have got real reservations about being the bearer of bad news and never press my point if a premie expresses disbelief. I don't have firsthand knowledge about Rawat's abuses so I don't have the moral authority and it sounds like gossip to them. I haven't told most of my premie friends about Rawat's dirt because of that.

I left mostly because I enjoyed K so much and felt that Rawat was a bad teacher and had created a personality cult not because of the allegations so I try to tell them my point of view. If I were less cautious about being the bearer of bad news I would tell the Gujerati premies everything including that he eats meat which is a big no-no for most of them right up there with boozing and adultery.

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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 12:22:49 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: from Susan
Subject: This is truely bizarre
Message:
Hi Susan,

I agree that the only thing EV is accomplishing is re-victimizing the victims and doing it in a way, especially to Abi that is heartless and demeaning. I'm so sorry you are going through this.

I don't understand what they could possibly gain by suing Jagdeo??!!?? That's why it seems like a PR setup only. I don't get this crap at all. It has to be set up in order to cover Maharaji's ass--nothing more. What kind of law suit could they win? What are their allegations if EV is the plaintiff? What crime against EV has Jagdeo committed? This is too bizarre and convoluted for words. Besides, even if they get Jagdeo into a courtroom, what money does he have? Is he wealthy?

Linda Gross's statement is filled with lies and it tells me that this is yet another tactic by the cult to whitewash the many mistakes made by EV/Maharaji, and all the PAMs who have covered for M all these years.

I hope you and Abi both have legal advice before offering to meet with EV. I just don't trust their motives. It appears to be a CYA thing for Maharaji, who I believe doesn't care one bit about anyone but himself.

I feel sick to my stomach over this latest development. And I'm not directly involved in this...I can't imagine how you and Abi are dealing with it.

Please try to take care of yourself--this is to both you and Abi. I, too, am quite triggered by this...it's important to comfort yourself as much as possible however you can during this new pack of lies and smokescreens.

Much Love,
Cynthia

P.S. I would suggest that both you and Abi ignore Bjorn. He is very wierd, imbalanced and has a strangeness to him that makes me distrust him very much.

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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 11:01:59 (EDT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: from Susan
Subject: Brava Susan
Message:
Susan,

You have written a strong, direct statement that contrasts sharply with the bizarre spin on EV website. I have said it before but your being stonewalled by M/EV when Michael Dettmers attempted to contact M directly on your behalf prompted me to begin posting on Forum Five late last year. I have read others say they became Ex's because of EV's treatment of you and Abi and other unknown victims. This issue concerns many of my fence sitter friends (sort of into M&K and not aware of the behind the scenes). I have also recently spoken to those who love M deeply and this is a huge wedge in that relationship. They can no longer just blame EV.

It is simply outrageous that EV chooses to spin this in their favor while trashing the victims and only being concerned about total protection of M's image. Outrageous.

So brava, Susan and may there be resolution that is both human and fair.

Richard

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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 11:30:56 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Yes, of course
Message:
Excellent post, Susan. How've you been?

God! Who'd have ever imagined that EV would sue Jagdeo for the harm he's caused them? And that they'd do it in a way that so transparently revealed their lack of intent to ever follow through? Sounds like they don't expect to serve him (especially now that they've tipped him off with a 'press release'). It also sounds liek they don't really expect to litigate the matter seeing as they didn't bother to ever ask the necessary witnesses if they'd be interested in helping. On the other hand, this lawsuit could turn into something interesting .....

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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 14:19:04 (EDT)
From: silvia
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: If EV is truthful (nt)
Message:
s
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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 11:56:49 (EDT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Absolutely, Jim, Abi, Joe, Richard, J-M etc.
Message:
Jim,

Exactly right. How are they going to serve him? In their press release they said:

When the first of the alleged victims came forward in 1999, EVI immediately began inquiries. At the time, Upadhaya was living in retirement at a DUO ashram in Mehrauli, India. When confronted with the allegations, he left the ashram and has not been seen since.

So they don't even know where he is, they're lying about when the victims came forward, they're going to sue someone they can't find, yet blow off, insult, backslap and demean the victims of this pedophile that would be of great assistance in their lawsuit??!

These are all signs that perhaps the whole lawsuit thing is pure bullshit. Or they can file something and never find him to serve him and say SEE, EVI tried to do something, we really did, we really did.

And they post a press release with the alleged wranglings of settlement negotiations??? What lawyer in their right mind would post information like that? Perhaps EVI is so inept or caught in their own "spin control" webs that they will succeed in destroying themselves, sooner or later.

Yowie. Then I love all these premies without a shred of understanding of the law (not to mention the issues) giving you and Joe a lot of crap.

bests, F

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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 11:46:08 (EDT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: The end of Elan Vital?
Message:
Jim, you say this lawsuit could turn into something interesting. I imagine you were thinking something legal, but I think it is quite possible that Élan Vital will get hung out to dry on this one. In fact, I predict that EV will go down like the Titanic and M will blame the entire Jagdeo matter on those ineffectual premies that ran EV. 'How could they allow these horrible things to happen to my premies?' End of Élan Vital, honchos hang their heads in shame for screwing up and a new organization replaces EV.

Another more human possibility is that Linda Gross and other EV/PAMs wake up and realize the truth about this, see their complicity and resign causing a huge PR problem for M. Whatever happens, the Jagdeo matter is the Achilles heel of M right now.

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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 10:29:39 (EDT)
From: Bjørn E
Email: None
To: from Susan
Subject: I think that makes sense ...
Message:
and I mostly agree with you
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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 06:24:34 (EDT)
From: Mr. Mind
Email: None
To: All
Subject: EV/Maharaji's strategy
Message:
1) probably just a token attempt to hush the issue within the ranks-NO TRIAL EVER

2) may want victims to come to INDIA for trial

3) being a Civil action, Rawat lawyers maintain control-which keeps Rawat's involvement in cover-up out of it


---
I think most likely no actual legal proceeding will come of this-just spin control before things spin out of control

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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 11:59:57 (EDT)
From: Francesca :C)
Email: None
To: Mr. Mind
Subject: You could be right! [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 04:56:11 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: All
Subject: May I suggest 1 thing re the Jagdeo issue?
Message:
EV's presentation of the whole thing is very deceitful.

Lots of excellent comments have been made here and on LG. Would someone care to save all this, and edit it to keep it on a special page ?

I could host it on EPO, but I need someone to work on all this stuff. Volunteers ?

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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 12:44:00 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Feature story in Newsletter
Message:
Hi Jean-Michel. I'm working behind the scenes now, to start a monthly newsletter. Sept will be ISSUE 0 and I would like to include the history of the EPO.

This will make a great feature story. We can outline the history and have it easily available for everyone who wants to get at the whole picture.

Any new developments can be featured in the following monthly newsletters.

Suggestions anyone for a name of the newsletter. We can also make a logo icon that can be target right from the forum.

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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 16:31:29 (EDT)
From: Mr. Mind
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: Maharaji Watch or
Message:
Keeping an EYE on Maharaji

or

...And it is Maharaji

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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 22:39:52 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Mr. Mind
Subject: Re: Maharaji Watch or
Message:
Thanks, I'll keep your advice on file. Read lower post to JHB.

Any time you think of ideas, post them. New thread doesn't matter. We could start a new newsletter thread every few days. I'd like to see the ideas flow.

Colour, layout, sections and nifty titles, logo, pictures, graphics, Maha cartoons, let me know what you want.

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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 16:17:12 (EDT)
From: JHB (EPO Webmaster)
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: Re: Feature story in Newsletter
Message:
Deborah,

I have no objection to you starting a newsletter, and of course I am happy for you to include information from www.ex-premie.org in your newsletter. May I request that you do not include any of the Journeys entries, as these are deemed to belong to the authors, unless you have permission of the authors. Also, regarding the name, anything that doesn't confuse it with the EPO website.

John Brauns

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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 22:36:41 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: JHB (EPO Webmaster)
Subject: Re: Feature story in Newsletter
Message:
Hi John,

I do not want to re-invent the wheel. There shouold be a section that that has all the links.

What could be nice, is to feature a new journey or post of introduction (doesn't have to reveal too many details) every month.
I thought we could name the section, how I found EPO. People don't have to reveal names or anything.

ie. hi, I don't want to reveal my real name right now but you can call me XXX or YYY. I have been lurking. I am aspirant, premie,drifter, etc. Perhaps an impression or two.

This way people who are lurking can see how many new people come out of the Cult closet. Maybe the numbers will pick up. Also, if someone is new here and leaves a post, two weeks later it might be archived. If a regular poster is on vacation and comes back, they can check the section and establish who what the poster is about.

I'd like to see many sections as templates. We could just update them. Also feauture stories every month. Funny things people said. Stupid things people said. So that it reads like a magazine.

Pictures, nice colour etc. This would be good for new and old posters who may want to catch up without trolling through hundreds and hundreds of archived posts. THe newsletter can highlight and point.

Any more feedback? We need a good name, a logo, colour scheme, etc.

Would you like to have a section called: WHAT PREMIES ARE SAYING....?

I think it would have a nice balance. It might encourage some premies to think of something thoughtful to say, because these could be printed out and sent to press for review. They could also be given out by exes to their premie friends. High visual content. This way we could get some premies interested and hooked onto the topic.

p.s. Issue 0 needs a good 'EPO hsitory and development essay'

Thanks for feedback guys, keep thinking.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 23:49:48 (EDT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: Title?...Maharaji:Revealing the Truth...
Message:
We once talked about a name for a website or something that would bring in premies to EPO...

We thought that something that sounded actually a bit Pro-maharaji might be the best, as an obvious negative title might turn them away before they got in...

One of the best suggestions was:

Maharaji: Revealing the Truth

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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 15:31:36 (EDT)
From: silvia
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: Newsletter
Message:
As you know I haven't had time to read all the posts: What newsletter are you refering to?

Hi 'angel'! :)

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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 23:32:03 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: silvia
Subject: Re: Newsletter
Message:
Hi Silvia,

it's time to develop an monthly on-line newsletter. So, if we are away from the Forum for awhile, we could get in touch with what's been going on quickly and easily. It can also be printed out and given to premies, or media, or whoever.

It will be Set up with different sections: Examples

*Feature story of the month
*New developments regarding the EPO and Forum VI (or whatever?)
*Summary of topics that could link to archived posts
*LINKS section - this will link to the existing sites, it will just be included for convenience. So everything is self-contained.
*Could include example of Best of Forum (with actual link)
*Funny stuff, sad stuff, in-between
*Who's new at the EPO. A brief intro or perhaps journey(by permission)
*The political dish
*Guru gossip column
*Advice Guru column

*Maha's latest scandal
*Maha's intenerary,
*Media contacts in the places where he holi-in-headness is headed

***Guru cartoons.

! It will be nice if it is visually pleasing with pics, graphics etc

Get the picture? Give me feedback please.

Looking for catchy name. Need logo as well. I want the first Issue to have History of EPO. Goal is to have first issue out by late Sept. and new issues every month. But all templates can be re-used and some info won't have to change month-to-month. They can just be updated.

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Date: Sat, Aug 11, 2001 at 11:20:34 (EDT)
From: Silvia
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: Oh!
Message:
Great idea! Yes!!

Deborah, I will look at this later. I took a small brake from my busy day because as always I need to be reminded that I am an ex-premie, i.e., I want to understand myself and reading always help, but I need to come back later. I will write to you by e-mail.

All could be worse...I keep on going...

Love,

silvia

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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 23:33:55 (EDT)
From: me again
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: One other suggestion
Message:
Is a WHAT PREMIES ARE SAYING section. This is up to everyone, of course.

What do you think?

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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 10:02:36 (EDT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Re: May I suggest 1 thing re the Jagdeo issue?
Message:
Jean-Michel,

I would like to be involved in this (as Webmaster I think I should!).

John.

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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 10:16:23 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Re: May I suggest 1 thing re the Jagdeo issue?
Message:
of course you are involved !!!!!!
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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 07:03:58 (EDT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Re: May I suggest 1 thing re the Jagdeo issue?
Message:
good idea. i haven't been keeping up on LG lately tho. how far back should the track go?
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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 09:30:00 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Re: May I suggest 1 thing re the Jagdeo issue?
Message:
Everything that happened since what's reported there.

I'd like to keep the present Jagdeo page as it is now, and have it separate. EV's reaction to the 'allegations', EV's and Pascotto's attitude in Australia, etc

Something anybody new to this could understand.
[ The Jagdeo Issue ]

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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 05:41:59 (EDT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Re: May I suggest 1 thing re the Jagdeo issue?
Message:
same shit I was going to ask. I've already created a directory and saved some posts.
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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 04:43:22 (EDT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Where can I go?
Message:
Hey everybody! I was wondering if any body knows of another forum I could hang at? I've tryed to find something, but they all want pass keys and shit. I'd like to find one which is as easy to use as this fine set-up you all got goen here. I'm looken for a place where the posters are just into stupid wierd shit..no particular topic-the stupider the better. I can't follow whats going on here anymore, and frankly I don't think I want to! (No offence). There's just so many issues and names, and situations I know f-all about that I find I'm only posting just to get responces. I'm sure many feel like I'm becomeing a pain...and I don't blame ya! If anyone could turn me on to an easy to use forum just to jag-off in (so to speak!) that would be great! Sorry if I've been bugging some, and embarrassing others (Jim!). Thanks if you can help...then I'll be on my way.
Good luck on stomping Lord muffle-butt. Bye!
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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 12:51:18 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: stars@uvic.ca
To: Barry
Subject: Re: You can hang around
Message:
Hey, where do you think you're going? Get back here. Canadians have to stick together, eh?

So you didn't have all the facts before you got here. Big Deal! Who does, I didn't know what the fuck was going on and who was who and I definitely fucked up in the process. Who cares?

On the other hand, I couldn't have felt more shame than Maha ever caused me to experience. Everything else was PRAISE in comparison.

But your non-premie point of view is welcomed.

Email me if you want. See above

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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 14:15:23 (EDT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: Thanks Deb! Uvic eh? Cool!
Message:
I went there myself just short of a BA in visual arts. Your very kind. I like you. Maybe I'll drop a line. Start some comunique?
Later

Barry

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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 11:51:07 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: Bazza ?
Message:
did you check your email ?

Ah maybe you don't want to talk to me anymore ....

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Date: Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 16:17:57 (EDT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Re: Bazza ?
Message:
no, this is not bazza, this is barry, the acoustic outlaw, who plays music with jim heller and his other band members. they made a cd.
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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 14:17:03 (EDT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: I'll check it, but evryone says your an imposter!
Message:
I'll check my e mail mate!
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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 14:16:58 (EDT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: I'll check it, but evryone says your an imposter!
Message:
I'll check my e mail mate!
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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 12:02:04 (EDT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Not Bazza!
Message:
J-M,

This is Barry, Jim's never been a premie friend. I don't think Bazza's reading here.

John.

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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 14:18:22 (EDT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: What? (nt)
Message:
sss
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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 15:14:13 (EDT)
From: Francesca :C)
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: Let me 'splain
Message:
Bazza, who used to post here's real name is Barry Shaw. Bazza was also an assistant Forum Administrator on Forum V.

J-M sent an e-mail to Bazza/Barry, which, apparently, Bazza/Barry didn't answer. So when you posted as 'Barry,' J-M thought you wuz 'Bazza.' JHB was trying to straighten it out.

BTW, re your other post, I agree with Deb, stick around as long as you want. You are certainly more refreshing than premie trolls.

Just don't yell at me for pointing out the obvious, because you didn't seem to understand what was going on with the Bazza/Barry thang.

Francesca

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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 19:23:08 (EDT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Francesca :C)
Subject: You have a point!
Message:
say no more.Thanks Fran.
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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 10:36:23 (EDT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: We love you man
Message:
... especially when you're embarrassing Jim! I'm sure many folk here can relate to posting just to get responses - I did that once I think:). Check out Anything Goes as others have suggested.
[ Anythang Goes ]
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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 14:20:56 (EDT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Ok! But.....
Message:
It seems the Anything goes is still just Muffle-butt bashing. Maybe I'll do that for a while and see what I can say there. Thanks for the kind words my man.
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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 09:57:47 (EDT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: Don't go to the Latvian forum!
Message:
Barry,

The only other forum I hang out at is Latvians Online, but I wouldn't recommend it - it's probably more esoteric to an outsider than this one is:-)

John.

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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 14:22:54 (EDT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: ummmm?.....alright(nt)!
Message:
sss
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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 09:38:48 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: Go to Anthing Goes, of course [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 05:07:06 (EDT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: Why don't you
Message:
just cruise the net and I'm sure you'll find something.

Just like you did in the thread below.

You're a rude bastard.

Now go and fuck off.

Happy now!!

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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 14:25:46 (EDT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: Ha Ha Ha Ha!
Message:
How did yours turn out Jeth? Stubby and thin? Har Har Har!
Kidding!
Barry
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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 17:50:55 (EDT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: It's easy to make a fool laugh
Message:
I knew I'd make you smile.
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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 18:07:32 (EDT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: it's easier to make a prude embarrassed! (nt)
Message:
Ha!
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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 03:46:47 (EDT)
From: Richard II
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Too fucking much!!
Message:
Okay, EV is going after Jagdeo now but all of a sudden that's not enough to satisfy you guys. It was the same when EV didn't prosecte the french press. You were all ready to attack if EV had prosecuted, but then you attacked anyway when EV didn't prosecute. You show yourselves to be transparently vindictive, irrational, immature, overly zealous, knee-jerk, stupid, sore losers, and vulnerable to conspiracy theory.

The fact that the Jagdeo situation is now under the legal microscope SHOULD provide the opportunity to satisfy everyone’s desire to get ALL the facts out. The legal process is indeed the process to accomplish this, not the speculation rampant on these forums. Then hopefully we can all move on.

Up until now, none of us have been privy to the details regarding what happened behind the scenes when one or another person were told about Jagdeo. But that didn’t prevent you guys from drawing conclusions, some of which were based upon pure speculation. Hopefully the facts will now set the record straight. But even if the facts vindicate EV and Maharaji, we know that many of the exes will be unble to accept the outcome, and will not be able to move on. These people will no doubt prefer to believe whatever supports their biases in the face of the facts. Such is the nature of conspiracy theory.

Conspiracy theories are fuelled by people who think they see “the truth” in the face of the “official story”, and are therefore smarter than the average joe. They feel a compulsion to “enlighten” the rest of us to the “truth” and to the “lies” being put forward by official channels. Another interesting characteristic of conspiracy theorists is there is a real camaraderie amongst fellow theorists who feel they are united by a common insight and a common enemy. The “conspiracy” gives the theorist a feeling of purpose and of being special for having been able to see through the “lies”. At last something “makes sense” to them. The net of this is for the moment they feel strong, inspired, and empowered, maybe even for the first time. But alas this new-found vitality is based upon discounting any facts that disprove the conspiracy, and always generating new 'insights' to 'prove' their beliefs. This description fits most of the ex-premies who post here to a tee.

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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 20:28:56 (EDT)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Richard II
Subject: Re: Too fucking much - absolutely!!
Message:
Okay, EV is going after Jagdeo now but all of a sudden that's not enough to satisfy you guys. It was the same when EV didn't prosecte the french press. You were all ready to attack if EV had prosecuted, but then you attacked anyway when EV didn't prosecute. You show yourselves to be transparently vindictive, irrational, immature, overly zealous, knee-jerk, stupid, sore losers, and vulnerable to conspiracy theory.

You are almost certainly right here, Richard. Vindictive: no question. Irrational: absolutely. Immature: goo-goo ga-ga. Overly zealous (as apposed to appropriately zealous?). Sore losers: Yeah Abi and Susan can't stand it can they? Too right...Well said.

No one gives due credit to the brave souls of EV for starting this action. No-one stops for a minute to consider who the real victims are in all this. Defamation is a pretty serious business, IMO, and for EV and Maharahi to be dissed like this (even by implication) is really heavy shit. I hope they get some decent compensation for damages to the Lord's spotless white image when they finally track this Jagdeo character down. Sue him for every last rupee in his fucking loincloth, I say.

I am only surprised they haven't mentioned the obvious fact that Jagdeo was never even anything to do with Maharaji or EV. Just a freelance enthusiast, probably. Of course M wouldn't employ an asshole like that to do his work. Omniscinece would have seen to that. In fact, claims that Mahatamaji ever served in such a position - new evidence reveals - are completely unfounded. After an internal EV investigation, it seems nobody has any recollection of any person by that name having acted on the Lord's behalf. So these so-called alleged victims who nobody can remember ever saying fuck all about zilch to anybody about anything whatsoever should move on and get a life. It is Elan Vital and their humantitarian mission who are left to suffer when people start saying bad things. Shame on them all.

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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 13:50:14 (EDT)
From: such
Email: None
To: Richard II
Subject: a mirror:
Message:
you wrote: 'They feel a compulsion to 'enlighten' the rest of us to the 'truth''

gee, sound familiar? deja vu...

Au contraire, poor Richard, this is Karma.

Peace and lentils

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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 12:52:10 (EDT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Richard II
Subject: The answer my friend...is in the truth
Message:
Rich-
I understand your exasperation with the situation, and can see why you have a certain perspective on it...

However, NONE of this ever would have happened, IF.....

1-maharaji would step up to the plate and tell the WHOLE truth to EVERYONE....
2-premies around maharaji were not literally scared to death of him(a climate of fear that he loves to perpetuate) and could have told him things all along the way that he should have heard(but maybe didn't want to)...
3-maharaji did not have the attitude that he is 'above the law'...
4-maharaji did not have a proven history of being a liar and coward...
5-ev was not in the practice of denial and obfuscation...
6-maharaji acted on jagdeo when he FIRST heard about it, and dealt with it PERSONALLY, as Michael Dettmers suggested...
7-current premies who support maharaji would wake up, throw off the chains of the 'master-slave' relationship that he has put them in, and they have accepted, and confront him in a common sense way, as they would with anyone else who is screwing around with them and other peoples lives...

If maharaji got the message that even the premies (especially western ones with money...believe me I have talked with Sharon Stokke about finances, and this plays a HUGE part in maharaji's strategy) wanted to get to the bottom of this, and demanded that he level with them, it would change things...

8-While there are many more points to add, how about the one of simple, common, honest decency and sense?
Especially from someone who has posed as the 'greatest incarnation of god to ever walk the planet', the 'savior of mankind', and now as some sort of 'healer who allows the poor broken spirit to finally rise up and run free' (from his last amaroo talk about the broken horse who the master sets free)...

Wouldn't you think that he would try to act this way in everyday life?

Is he really healing people, setting them free, revealing the truth?

How can anyone ever believe him again, after seeing all of the lies and manipulations that he and ev have engaged in?

All he will be left with are the 'true believers' who will interpret anything and everything he does to either be 'profound', 'mystical'(only he knows why a certain thing happened and they are not to question or judge their master) or 'lila'.....

Rich, this isn't your problem....it's just that your master has a way of not telling the truth, and it's finally catching up with him....

I urge you to question him and petition him to come forward and tell the truth...that's all, just the truth...from him personally....is that too much to ask from someone who purports to be 'enlightened' in some way?...
Wouldn't he want all of this and more from someone who knew something about one of his kids if they had been abused?

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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 23:51:44 (EDT)
From: salam
Email: salam_au@iprimus.com.au
To: la-ex
Subject: Re: The answer my friend...is in the truth
Message:
la-ex,

Can you e-mail me please

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Date: Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 00:49:53 (EDT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: salam
Subject: Salam, my e-mail didn't go through nt
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 12:27:21 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Richard II
Subject: To: Richard II
Message:
You really don't know what the fuck you're talking about. You are in a cult, and cannot see clearly how abusive EV/Maharaji has been to the victims of Jagdeo.

You really are clueless.

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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 10:21:17 (EDT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Richard II
Subject: Re: Too fucking much!!
Message:
Richard,

Conspiracy theories aside, how can EV be trusted to get to the truth of this matter, when they are also in the dock? I personally believe Abi's father, a current premie, when he says he told Gurucharnanand in 1985. Gurucharnanand was very influential in EV and DUO (India) at the time, so I believe that EV and DUO knew about this at the very least since that time.

Susan has now volunteered to help DUO in their civil suit against Jagdeo, but before that offer, how could they have possibly won their case? Jagdeo could have denied it, and then what evidence would DUO provide?

Please think about this carefully, Richard.

John.

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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 07:11:05 (EDT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Richard II
Subject: Re: Too fucking much!!
Message:
the literal translation of the term 'to conspire' is 'to breathe together'.
figure out for yourself who makes a major selling point of getting a bunch of people to breathe together. in synchronicity.
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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 09:08:19 (EDT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Re: Too fucking much!!
Message:
the literal translation of the term 'to conspire' is 'to breathe together'.
figure out for yourself who makes a major selling point of getting a bunch of people to breathe together. in synchronicity.


---

You make an excellent point. If this were the local PTA we were taking on, it might be a little crazy to suspect conspiracy at every move.
BUT THIS IS A CULT we're talking about here, and cults are conspiratorial in their very nature.

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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 04:24:01 (EDT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: Richard II
Subject: Jagdeo the child rapist
Message:
I'm very pleased that EV are now finally doing something about Jagdeo.

I suggested they do this last week and I'm pleased to see they've acted so swiftly. I suggested they take responsibility for Jagdeo and it seems they are at last doing this. It's a bit late though, isn't it? And do they actually know where he is? Marcia Lietner told me some Indian told her that he had been spotted at some point in Buxar. She didn't tell me when he was last seen there or by whom. I was just given the name of a place in India. Their lawyer told me that no-one will ever find Jagdeo but that he will never leave India again. He told me to give up on the idea of ever finding him as 'Elan Vital have lost track of Jagdeo'.

The only reason that EV are doing anything about Jagdeo now is because
I have insisted they do so.

He raped me when I was a child. You're lucky you don't have to live with that.

I expect that you will try and bad-mouth me like the rest of the premies. I don't care what you say about me anymore.

Abi

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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 16:13:47 (EDT)
From: Richard II
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: My response
Message:
Abi, I know you have accused me of attacking you in the past when I raised objection to you characterizing Elan Vital and premies as, in affect, aiding and abetting Jagdeo’s alleged actions. I did so because IMO to paint these mostly kind and good people with the same brush as a pedophile is unfair. I would like to say for the record that I objected to your actions and not to you. I can say that in the future I will also raise objections when I feel what you are doing or saying needs to be challenged for the sake of fairness. I will not attack you as a person. And yes I may from time to time express frustration, but understand that it will be no reflection on how I feel about you as a person. Unlike your ex-premie supporters, I do not believe that just because you have been allegedly victimized that your actions are beyond reproach.

You need to appreciate that you are in a very sensitive position right now. I don’t think you can afford to say anything you want on these forums without considering the potential repercussions down the road. For this, you should seek council. For example, if EV were to be vindicated by the courts for all the accusations you have raised, they could choose to file a defamation suit against you and other ex-premies in order to clear its name. You must appreciate that an organization whose goals are dependant upon keeping a good public image has no choice but take measures to set the record clean, otherwise they fail in their mission. The kind of allegations you have raised are of a serious enough nature that you may give them no alternative should they withstand any legal challenge by you to launch a counter suit to clear its name. Sorry but that is just life.

What I look for in you is someone who remains upstanding in your dealings and fair in finding a resolution to this chapter of your life. Obviously if your goal in dealing with Jagdeo’s alleged abuse is to use it, like the other ex-premies have, to discredit Maharaji, the premies, and Knowledge, I will not support you, period. And I will point out at every turn of the road where I feel you are being disingenuous. And Abi, I and many other good people will continue to lose respect for you.

Now for specifics of your post. You said: “He raped me when I was a child. You're lucky you don't have to live with that.”

Really Abi I have to ask you why you said this. Are you seeking my sympathy? I have already expressed to you my disgust and regret at the alleged abuse of Jagdeo to you. As I said, you have my support if your intentions are to get past this episode. But are you looking for a carte blanch endorsement from me for you to say and do whatever you want because of your alleged sexual abuse? Besides, do you know what I have had to live with in my life? What I’ve had to overcome? I do not seek sympathy from you for things that could easily have made me a “victim”. I chose not to be a victim. For me to identify with that label would be to capitulate, and that is one thing I will not do.

I hope my position is a little clearer.

Richard

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Date: Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 17:20:54 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Richard II
Subject: FA/JHB:This is pure harrassment
Message:
This scum says:
I would like to say for the record that I objected to your actions and not to you.

Who the fuck are you. We read your posts. You are evil and overly obsessed with this case. WHO ARE YOU? And why does Abi need your approval?

For example, if EV were to be vindicated by the courts for all the accusations you have raised, they could choose to file a defamation suit against you and other ex-premies in order to clear its name.

Let them try and sue. I have attorneys in mind that will kick their ass. They CANT bring a defamation suit against her or any of us, idiot.

Obviously if your goal in dealing with Jagdeo’s alleged abuse is to use it, like the other ex-premies have, to discredit Maharaji, the premies, and Knowledge, I will not support you, period. And I will point out at every turn of the road where I feel you are being disingenuous. And Abi, I and many other good people will continue to lose respect for you.

We can hate Maha the FRAUD for 1000 reasons let alone 3. Fuck you. One thing has nothing to with the other. FRAUD. get it! Covers everything. Jesus, you are an asshole. You will not support her? YOU HAVEN'T, you scum sucking idiot. YOU have been trying to intimidate her. How fuckin silly of you to try and spin this one. How transparent.

OH, the clencher: Yeah! YOu and who-else will not support her? Who are you to talk about anybody else. Is this a couched threat that you are one of the attorneys and that you are somewhat of an army of attorneys. This is what you are saying, or this is an image you are trying to convey. Either way, you've pissed me off.

FA/JHB: This is not acceptable, the words are definitely encouched threats. This is intimidation tactics either by the agya of a FRAUD or by his own sick volition.

Please OUT him if he posts again under any pseudonym.

Abi can't defend herself under these conditions. How is her attorney suppose to attack him for harrassment if you cover HIS ASS?

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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 23:25:19 (EDT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: Richard II
Subject: Re: My response
Message:
Are you a lawyer? Are you an EV official?
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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 20:16:59 (EDT)
From: Bon Liner
Email: None
To: Richard II
Subject: ......potential repercussions down the road....
Message:
The 2nd paragraph of your post to Abi is a threat.

Are you issuing it on behalf of Elan Vital ?

Pat Dorrity

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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 20:47:58 (EDT)
From: Richard II
Email: None
To: Bon Liner
Subject: Re: ......potential repercussions
Message:
The 2nd paragraph of your post to Abi is a threat.

To hell it is. Listen Bin, when a person who has retained legal council indiscriminately opens their mouth in public it potentially creates legal exposure and makes the job of meeting the client's goals more difficult. These are the repercussions I am referring to. No, I am in no position to threaten anyone.

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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 23:47:06 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Richard II
Subject: Hey councillor! er I mean paedophile defender
Message:
You idiot. you just said, when a person who has retained legal council indiscriminately opens their mouth in public it potentially creates legal exposure and makes the job of meeting the
client's goals more difficult.

Well the CLIENT, ie. Rawat should have consulted you, buddy. That's in print, the same as opening his FRAUD mouth in public.

I told you were a paedophile defender. I told you. I told you. I told you, you fuckin moron.

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

The acorn doesn't fall far from the trees. Maha, himself, is a sexual abuser, so, he better watch his public ass. He's up the creek onthat one. Public doesn't like Cult sexual offenders.

MAHA, you hear it. Keep your pecker in your pocket.

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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 23:00:00 (EDT)
From: Observer
Email: None
To: Richard II
Subject: Coward R2 IS Glasser? NT
Message:
xxx
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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 23:29:41 (EDT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: Observer
Subject: Re: Coward R2 IS Glasser? NT
Message:
I've always thought he was Charles G right from the moment he started posting. I've asked him several times if he is a lawyer and he wont reply.

And he says he is interested in the truth...

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Date: Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 12:52:14 (EDT)
From: R2
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Not quite
Message:
No cigar Abi.
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Date: Fri, Aug 10, 2001 at 11:43:16 (EDT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: R2
Subject: Re: Not quite
Message:
Well, who are you then? You frighten me. You might think that you frighten me because you call me to account and I am constitutionally unable to take responsibility for my actions and therefore feel threatened when someone questions my integrity - but you are wrong. You frighten me because as far as I am concerned you are speaking for a large international organisation with an authority I can only speculate about. You sound like a lawyer. You sound like someone who has been specifically sent to this forum to interrogate my motives, discredit me and offer not so subtle threats. You first reply to me with full of swear words and anger. You have moments when you curb your aggression and sublimate it into an articulate but none the less still agressive response.

I do not know who you are or who you consult with. You know intimate aspects about my life. When I express pain you frame it as an attempt to exploit and manipulate a 'victim' position. As though I am using a PC position in order further what you percieve to be a negative and ressentful agenda. At times you remind me of what many feminists have called 'the post-political white boys', the postmodern devotees who charge minority groups and their calls for equality and justice with exploiting victimhood for indulgent political ends. As though a call for justice amounts to lack of responsibility, a moral weakness, an inability to 'get a life'. You say you are on the side of reason, integrity and truth and yet you hide behind 'R2' and offer what I read an irrational fundamentalist statements about your personal beliefs.

You tell me I risk relinquishing the respect of good people by speaking here. I do not know who they are. Once again, you conjur up a crowd against me. You suggest that EV might sue me for defamation knowing full well that I will never be able to sue EV for the way they have treated me or for what jagdeo did to me. You come accross as a bully who uses their intelligence as a weapon in a war you consider to be holy. I think you are a dangerous man.

You patronise the women here and call them 'chickie', you call me 'dear'. You tell me that if you were in a room with me and I challenged your beliefs and your master that fur would fly. What sort of man are you that you have to expend energy attacking me like this? And oddly you frame your replies at times as though they are lessons in correct, ethical behaviour. I have learnt long ago to be careful about my teachers.

You say that I habour ill will against Maharaji and Elan Vital and that I am using what happened to me with Jagdeo (which for you is always so 'alleged') as an excuse to vent an unhealthy anger. It has been many months since Maharaji and Elan Vital said they would try and help me. They wont even pay for me to see a therapist. I feel bullied by them, by you. I am just a political problem for them. I am not a real person. I have detailed the damage the abuse caused in several letters to them and their response has been lacking in compassion. I have begged them to pay for me to see a therapist and they have replied, coldy, that they do not know if they can do this or when, because they have to consult, have meetings, and people are always out of town, or caught up doing something else. This is hardly, as Linda Gross puts it in the EV press release, a quick and compassionate response.

They don't care and neither do you. I am just so much rubbish which must be removed, cleared out, controlled, eliminated. SILENCED. I am not a real human being to you or to them. I am a political problem.

And I am so fed up with being treated like this. I am fed up with Bjorn whatshisname, your rationalised violence, the whole mess.

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Date: Fri, Aug 10, 2001 at 14:31:32 (EDT)
From: BTDT
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Re: Not quite
Message:
These are blatant corporate tactics which is very interesting if EV is a nonprofit, church registered organization. It would be laughable if it weren't so hurtful and spiteful to Abi and the others. They can't offer counseling, because that would mean acceptance of responsibility ie guilt. They can't say they're sorry for the same reasons. Never admit anything than can be proven in court. Never let it be known that the CEO of a company had any direct knowledge of wrongdoing. If they did offer counseling they would probably make you sign a release form absolving them of all responsibility. If they gave you a check, read the fine print. Just cashing a check can absolve all responsibility if it's set up right.
They get it all too well. Everything done these days in EV has to be approved. Not a simple flyer or invitation can go out, if it is printed, without approval. No announcement or phone line message either. God help the premie that feels inspired. Inspiration is not wanted these days, in the name of being syched. Not for just EV but out in the communites as well. And they aren't EV affiliated according to EV. Only registered EV sites are EV affiliated. Interesting that bit....
As long as they aren't being sued in a British or US court, they aren't going to care. It's a way of keeping the ball tied up without ever having to face up to anything. And hoping the time frame will expire. Corporations know the waiting game.
This is what is disturbing to me and others. If it happened to Abi, it could happen to anyone. If Maharaji didn't/doesn't care enough about Abi to take care of her needs, then what makes any premie think he would care about their needs? And this isn't some frivolous need. He's always talking about compassion. This doesn't fall in the category of compassion? I never thought I'd see the day that Maharaji was governed more by legal/financial fear than common decency.
I've seen corporations let people who made them a MINIMUM of fifty million dollars let them get eaten alive rather than admit they were responsible for damaging their health and ruining their livelihood. Not to mention the could care less attitude for the employee's unwaivering loyalty to the CEO and company. Nope, keep decency out of it. Corporate liability. EV is nothing more than a corporation these days. Has Maharaji or will Maharaji accept an invitation to an event that is not Elan Vital issued? He might accept an invitation to go some town but it always comes down to EV.
I asked once how come everything has to go through EV and the only answer I was given was that this is the only medium Maharaji is using. It's not like I can call him up and invite him down for a presentation in the local Holiday Inn conference center. Come to think of it, that's exactly what we were supposed to be able to do. He called it 'mini tours'. It hasn't happened yet, and that promise was a couple years ago. Maybe due to the non affiliated EV status. Never thought of that before....Hmmmmmmmmmmmm......a lot of us sure waited for him to come to our towns.
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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 23:20:16 (EDT)
From: Observer
Email: None
To: Observer
Subject: Challenge to multi-alias coward R2
Message:
The challenge is : let the forum know your real name , phone/fax/email And then I will do the same. Then, if you wish, you and I can discuss matters you've posted here via phone? Up for it?

I think you may be Charless Glasser but obviously I may be wrong.

Whoever you are, it is not Abis welfare you are concerned with nor is the pursuit of truth in an honest way. It is simply to protect Prem Pal Singh Rawat by hook or by crook. Fair means or foul.

So, reveal your identity (and don't spout your usual excuse of being harrassed by hateful exes if you do...Linda gross used her name and forwarded a phone number...she like you will be safe)

So we know you are here for Prem Pal and him only .....so what is your name? Phone number?

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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 22:36:22 (EDT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Richard II
Subject: Horse hockey!
Message:
when a person who has retained legal council indiscriminately opens their mouth in public it potentially creates legal exposure and makes the job of meeting the client's goals more difficult.

How in your esteemed opinion did Abi do this? Doesn't she as all exes do, have the right to participate in this forum of her peers?

When did she ever mention details of her negotiations with EV on this forum, or make them public in any way?

IMO, it isn't Abi who blew the negotiations out of the water...it's EV. They were the first, by way of their press releases to bring details of the negotiations to public light in their totally deceitful and distorted manner.

And for you to suggest otherwise , I think you may be the one 'indiscriminately opening up your mouth.'

Now prove me wrong.

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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 22:15:03 (EDT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: Richard II
Subject: So , she's shot herself in the foot.......
Message:
......as far as you're concerned. That may be; I'm far from being an expert on the law , & know nothing of the ins & outs of all this jagdeo business.

It just seems to me that you seem to know a shit load about it & about most of the other stuff that comes up here to do with Mr. Rawat's less than divine doings.

I've got to conclude that you are an EV rep./spin doctor.

:)Pat Dorrity

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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 17:30:03 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Richard II
Subject: Silence is Deadly...
Message:
Richard II,

In essence, you would like for Abi and Susan to just shut up and go away. That, in essence, is what EV did by posting that horrendous 'Press Release.'

Your post above is nothing more than an attempt to silence victims of child sexual abuse. No go, Richard II. No Way.

The dynamics/MO of a sexual predator of children such as Jagdeo are secrecy and threats. Very cruel threats. Very manipulative threats and innuendo.

To tell ANY victim/survivor of child sexual abuse to be silent about it is reinforcing everything the perpetrator does to get away with their crimes.

I believe both Abi and Susan. Shame on Maharaji for allowing this campaign of harrassment to adults, who, as children, were subjected to sexual assault. Little innocent children. It doesn't go away, Richard II. The day's of 'don't say anything about it.' are long gone.

You have no right to ask for Abi's or anyone's silence about this. Abi has every right in the world to speak out, not only on her behalf, but on behalf of all children who are being abused today, as well as, those survivors of child sexual abuse who have lived the terror, the shame, humiliation, degradation and loss of childhood that comes with such an experience. In this case, Abi's public thrashing by EV/Maharaji because she has the courage to speak out about the crimes against her and others by Jagdeo is in a word, evil.

You're in a cult, you figure it out.

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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 17:40:53 (EDT)
From: Richard II
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Silence is sometimes a wise decision
Message:
You idiot. I suggested she seek council before making any statements that could have negative repercussions for her. Hey Cynthia, are you prepared to take responsibility if your advice and bravado backfires on her? Believe me, you’ll keep your comfortable distance, giving her your sympathies and heaping even more disdain on premies. And Abi will look the fool.

Wake up chickie. This is more than them vs. us, it involves real people.

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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 18:06:38 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Richard II
Subject: Re: Silence is sometimes a wise decision
Message:
Why so angry? Because what I told you is the truth? You are in a cult. It's run by a megalomaniac, Prem Pal Singh Rawat, a/k/a Guru Maharaj Ji, Maharaji, Lord of the Universe, etc., etc...

Abi has plenty of counsel, we don't need you coming here to intimidate her into being quiet.

Your 'counsel' is doubtful, sorry, you're in a cult. Until you realize that, you cannot see clearly how much control of this whole EV mechanism Maharaji has.

Is the next fundraiser going to be to fund the litigation? I doubt it. This is nothing more than another harrassment campaign to silence Abi.

You don't think clearly if you believe Maharaji isn't behind all of this. He is a heartless, cruel, cult leader.

That, Richard II, is the premise of this forum and the EPO website. However you feel about that at this juncture, is none of my business, but I don't like being called 'chickie' by you or anyone else, especially when you're spitting venom.

Cynthia J. Gracie

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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 18:29:50 (EDT)
From: Richard II
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Truth?
Message:
Why so angry? Because what I told you is the truth? You are in a cult. It's run by a megalomaniac, Prem Pal Singh Rawat, a/k/a Guru Maharaj Ji, Maharaji, Lord of the Universe, etc., etc...

Abi has plenty of counsel, we don't need you coming here to intimidate her into being quiet.

Your 'counsel' is doubtful, sorry, you're in a cult. Until you realize that, you cannot see clearly how much control of this whole EV mechanism Maharaji has.

Is the next fundraiser going to be to fund the litigation? I doubt it. This is nothing more than another harrassment campaign to silence Abi.

You don't think clearly if you believe Maharaji isn't behind all of this. He is a heartless, cruel, cult leader.

That, Richard II, is the premise of this forum and the EPO website. However you feel about that at this juncture, is none of my business, but I don't like being called 'chickie' by you or anyone else, especially when you're spitting venom.

Cynthia J. Gracie


---

No anger or venom on my part, I'm just appalled at your irresponsibililty in this matter. Truth is 'chickie' you are an angry and irresponsible person who cares more for protecting your own ego than Abi. My advice to her is to use someone who is closer to her best interests for advice before she makes public statements. That does not include me or you. If after she has done so it is appropriate for her to make a statement, fine.

Before you give your machismo much more of a work-out chickie why don't you think of someone other than yourself.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 09, 2001 at 12:48:14 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Richard II
Subject: Re: Truth?
Message:
Your posts to be don't dignify a response.
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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 23:51:06 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Richard II
Subject: Chickie?
Message:
My aren't the suave asshole.
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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 22:07:07 (EDT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Richard II
Subject: Beautiful...
Message:
First off, Cynthia just kicked your ass.

Secondly, I'm gonna kick your ass if you don't show a little more respect and lay off the deliberate provocation, ie chickie.

I'm gonna get your IP and complain to your provider that you are harrassing people here and posting under multiple names.

You are a guest here and your continued participation is at the grace of Sir Dave. Get it, asshole?

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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 05:29:00 (EDT)
From: CD
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Re:
Message:
>I expect that you will try and bad-mouth me like the rest of the premies.

What is this supposed to mean?

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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 15:29:50 (EDT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: CD
Subject: Re:
Message:
It means that I have had far too many internet encounters with premies who abuse me and that I am really upset about the Ev press release.
But I don't hate premies and I know that some of them are decent. I've had a rough day...
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Date: Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 04:49:08 (EDT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Retired Pediophile?
Message:
Retired? Where do they send the pension checks, if any? And I don't buy it for a second that they don't know where he is. Liars!

In this day and age it is practically impossible to disappear. Unless of course you have the money to make it happen.

Abi I admire you. I only wish that more victims would come forward. They invariably will come forward if, and when, this pediophile gets any real press.

Best to you, hang in there.

Tonette

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