Ex-Premie Forum 6 Archive
From: Jul 14, 2001 To: Aug 18, 2001 Page: 3 of: 5


Joy -:- Not a Leaf Moves -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 04:28:55 (EDT)
__ Mercedes -:- Re: Not a Leaf Moves -:- Fri, Aug 17, 2001 at 01:37:13 (EDT)
__ __ anon -:- not a loaf moves [nt] -:- Fri, Aug 17, 2001 at 12:51:15 (EDT)
__ __ __ la-ex -:- Not a Cognac is drunk without....nt -:- Fri, Aug 17, 2001 at 23:16:57 (EDT)
__ Francesca :C) -:- Nada beef hooves! -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 16:36:47 (EDT)
__ Pauline Premie -:- How Hateful -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 14:11:55 (EDT)
__ __ Simon Satsang -:- Ungrateful bitch -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 22:48:16 (EDT)
__ __ a0aji -:- you're loco [was 'Re: How Hateful'] -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 17:49:32 (EDT)
__ __ __ JHB -:- Pauline, you're getting too good! -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 17:52:37 (EDT)
__ __ Joy -:- I never actually used the *c* word, Pauline -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 16:39:05 (EDT)
__ __ __ Pauline Premie -:- Derek Harper says it is -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 17:24:16 (EDT)
__ Tim G -:- Re: Not a Leaf Moves -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 13:04:59 (EDT)
__ Pat:C) -:- Dear Joy, what a treat -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 04:49:01 (EDT)
__ __ Joy -:- And How Nice to See You Here Again Too! -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 06:08:16 (EDT)
__ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Jyoti is ''star'' in Hindu -:- Fri, Aug 17, 2001 at 04:42:22 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Dermot -:- 'Jyoti'..name of my daughter NT -:- Fri, Aug 17, 2001 at 19:10:02 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ anon -:- What .. Betty-Anne wasn't good enough? ;) [nt] -:- Fri, Aug 17, 2001 at 19:22:46 (EDT)
__ __ __ Joe -:- Hi Jwah! -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 14:41:55 (EDT)
__ __ __ Richard -:- Lila or Grace??? -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 12:12:33 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ a0aji -:- sheik rattle and roll [nt] -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 17:56:02 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ a0aji -:- Michael, row the cult ashore, Halleluiah! [nt] -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 18:00:05 (EDT)

Pat:C) -:- If you like it, fine. If you don't, walk -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 04:25:20 (EDT)
__ BTDT -:- Re: If you like it, fine. If you don't, walk -:- Fri, Aug 17, 2001 at 19:43:12 (EDT)
__ __ Pat:C) -:- Hi BTDT a a net jihad -:- Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 13:46:32 (EDT)
__ __ __ BTDT -:- Re: Hi BTDT a a net jihad -:- Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 14:49:17 (EDT)
__ Ian Dury -:- You are absolutely correct!!! -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 17:51:25 (EDT)
__ Cynthia -:- To: Patsy, Life is Good...a bit o/t -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 16:49:22 (EDT)
__ Cynthia -:- To: Patsy, Life is Good...a bit o/t -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 16:46:22 (EDT)
__ __ Cynthia -:- Shit! Why do.... -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 16:51:52 (EDT)
__ __ __ Pat:C) -:- hi Cynthia......................OT -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 18:54:49 (EDT)
__ Joe -:- Re: If you like it, fine. If you don't, walk -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 15:38:25 (EDT)
__ __ a0aji -:- Nice post, Joe. [was: 'If you like it..'] [nt] -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 18:07:35 (EDT)
__ __ Pat:C) -:- A quick recap, Joe -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 16:46:35 (EDT)
__ __ __ Joe -:- Who is PSR? -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 17:38:45 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- PSR = Prempal Singh Rawat [nt] -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 18:57:11 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ ji -:- Not pastrami, swiss on rye? [nt] -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 19:04:58 (EDT)
__ __ Joe -:- I'll be Thomas a Becket -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 15:46:14 (EDT)
__ Patrick Wilson -:- Re: If you like it, fine. If you don't, walk -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 14:54:49 (EDT)
__ __ Deborah -:- You're right -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 23:37:02 (EDT)
__ __ Pat:C) -:- Good day, Patrick -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 15:15:40 (EDT)
__ __ Jim -:- Big mistake, Patrick W -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 15:10:08 (EDT)
__ such -:- miragey's dirty work: by premie proxy -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 14:43:23 (EDT)
__ __ TED Farkel -:- Mr. banana, ole TED'S a bit confused here... -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 15:18:11 (EDT)
__ __ __ such -:- will keep it under me turban -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 16:24:58 (EDT)
__ Jim -:- Great post, Pat -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 14:14:15 (EDT)
__ __ Pat:C) -:- Excuse me Jim, you do believe in yoga -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 14:30:32 (EDT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- Yoga? No, not the theory -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 15:07:08 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Re: Yoga? I don't disagree -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 15:19:20 (EDT)
__ Francesca :C) -:- ***BEST OF FORUM*** yeah, baby -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 12:34:06 (EDT)
__ __ Pat:C) -:- Thanks, Francesca for the tip -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 14:33:01 (EDT)
__ Richard -:- Pat answer to M's 'just walk'. -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 12:33:33 (EDT)
__ Way -:- Nict to read you again, Pat [nt] -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 10:34:25 (EDT)
__ Bob o -:- Re: If you like it, fine. If you don't, walk -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 08:27:30 (EDT)
__ Senor Catweasel -:- If you don't, walk -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 06:52:52 (EDT)
__ __ Bobo -:- Re: If you don't, walk -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 08:31:57 (EDT)
__ __ __ CW -:- Re: If you don't, walk -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 09:26:08 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- That's quite an admission, Cat -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 14:17:49 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ CW -:- Re: That's quite an admission, Cat -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 22:59:50 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Bobo -:- You make yourself very clear -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 14:03:31 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ such -:- cult-think: 'substance'-abuse [nt] -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 14:53:16 (EDT)

Salam -:- PIA's page updated -:- Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 23:48:56 (EDT)
__ Jim -:- A little black humour anyone? -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 19:17:25 (EDT)
__ __ Sir Dave -:- A new Saint? -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 21:19:34 (EDT)
__ __ Joe -:- Existential Question -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 19:34:01 (EDT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- You don't need to go that deep -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 19:56:11 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Joe -:- Well, my point was.. -:- Fri, Aug 17, 2001 at 18:46:09 (EDT)
__ Jim -:- What a sad, sad joke -:- Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 23:57:40 (EDT)
__ __ Way -:- What irony! -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 11:07:26 (EDT)
__ __ __ such -:- from da demon-mind to de-mean-exes -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 14:27:58 (EDT)
__ __ suchabanana -:- m.'s own confusion confused others! -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 03:19:53 (EDT)
__ __ such -:- explains how m.'s confusion confused others! [nt] -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 03:18:44 (EDT)
__ __ Richard -:- Edited for accuracy -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 01:02:05 (EDT)
__ __ __ such -:- m. accountability; do the Krishnamurti - fess up! [nt] -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 03:23:31 (EDT)

salam -:- something of interest -:- Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 22:15:47 (EDT)

Deena -:- WOW! -:- Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 20:10:13 (EDT)
__ Deena -:- P.S. to Joe -:- Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 20:36:13 (EDT)
__ __ Joe -:- Aging Dogs -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 14:44:18 (EDT)
__ __ Pat:C) -:- Re dogs, Deena: Bow Wow, worship and adore -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 04:45:30 (EDT)
__ __ __ Deena -:- Re: Re dogs, Deena: Bow Wow, worship and adore -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 21:08:45 (EDT)
__ __ __ such -:- guess it's a doggie dog world! [nt] -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 14:23:32 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Some of my best friends are old dogs and cats! [nt] -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 17:01:00 (EDT)

Francesca -:- To those who use Geocities (OT) -:- Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 19:56:39 (EDT)
__ Salam -:- Re: To those who use Geocities (OT) -:- Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 21:04:30 (EDT)
__ __ Deborah -:- Thanks for the tip Salam [nt] -:- Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 22:06:37 (EDT)

Joe -:- December, 2000 additions to residence -:- Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 14:51:54 (EDT)
__ such -:- r.e. dog run. m said dogs are 'stupid' -:- Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 21:11:04 (EDT)
__ Cynthia -:- New Septic? 'Cos he's full o' shit? -:- Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 17:24:34 (EDT)
__ __ a0aji -:- why're you insulting *shit*? ;) [nt] [nt] -:- Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 17:30:42 (EDT)
__ __ __ Cynthia -:- Re: why're you insulting *shit*? ;) -:- Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 17:39:13 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ a0aji -:- Re: why're you insulting *shit*? ;) -:- Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 17:52:15 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Oh Chris... -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 16:54:38 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ a0aji -:- Re: Oh Chris... -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 17:37:30 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Fuck, we don't need no charismatic master -:- Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 18:18:37 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ bill -:- Give us a smile starboy [nt] -:- Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 19:42:27 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ a0aji -:- photographing the jiva on a shoestring budget -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 05:04:13 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ bill -:- how about some indian food in 2 weeks? [nt] -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 17:37:15 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ a0aji -:- I'm living in Torrington [nt] -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 17:39:41 (EDT)

Joe -:- What cult property is this? -:- Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 14:46:16 (EDT)
__ janet -:- Re: What cult property is this? -:- Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 16:19:02 (EDT)
__ __ such -:- I helped save 'his' house from fires! [nt] -:- Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 21:06:48 (EDT)
__ __ Francesca ~) -:- Good work, janet! [nt] -:- Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 16:29:49 (EDT)
__ Francesca ~) -:- What does SALES amount mean? -:- Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 15:36:57 (EDT)
__ __ janet -:- Re: What does SALES amount mean? -:- Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 16:34:58 (EDT)
__ __ __ Francesca :C) -:- Sounds right, janet -:- Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 17:56:33 (EDT)
__ __ __ Cynthia -:- Must be nice.... -:- Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 17:35:48 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ janet -:- not on the shoreline at all. -:- Fri, Aug 17, 2001 at 05:24:44 (EDT)
__ __ Francesca ~) -:- Found SEVA EPO stuff on Google [nt] -:- Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 16:03:12 (EDT)

Francesca ~) -:- A place to complaint about EV -:- Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 14:21:18 (EDT)
__ Deborah -:- This is cool! Good Job Francesca [nt] -:- Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 15:24:07 (EDT)

gerry (This post is OT) -:- I don't believe in ghosts I don't believe in gh -:- Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 13:41:25 (EDT)
__ Sir Dave -:- Not made with wood and string -:- Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 14:07:12 (EDT)

Liz -:- I really don’t get it…. -:- Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 11:38:15 (EDT)
__ Sir Dave -:- Bazza's excercising his democratic rights -:- Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 18:14:05 (EDT)
__ __ Jim -:- You're English, aren't you? [nt] -:- Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 18:54:30 (EDT)
__ __ __ Liz -:- Re: You're English, aren't you? -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 05:57:19 (EDT)
__ Jim -:- I don't think anyone HAS returned -:- Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 14:45:49 (EDT)
__ a0aji -:- Re: I really don?t get it?. -:- Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 11:55:34 (EDT)

Sir Dave -:- Music help required (ot) -:- Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 11:07:19 (EDT)
__ Liz -:- Re: Music help required (ot) -:- Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 11:50:28 (EDT)
__ __ Sir Dave -:- Re: Music help required (ot) -:- Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 14:08:42 (EDT)
__ __ __ Liz -:- Re: Music help required (ot) -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 03:34:49 (EDT)

Sir Dave -:- SC is a liar - if you're interested -:- Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 04:54:00 (EDT)
__ Deborah -:- Re: NO SHIT SHERLOCK--hahahhahaha -:- Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 15:38:30 (EDT)
__ __ Sir Dave -:- Re: NO SHIT SHERLOCK--hahahhahaha -:- Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 16:13:28 (EDT)
__ __ __ Deborah -:- Re: NO SHIT SHERLOCK--hahahhahaha -:- Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 17:02:41 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ not ready for prime time -:- Re: NO SHIT SHERLOCK--hahahhahaha -:- Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 18:09:39 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ nrfpt -:- ballad of gruesome fraud mirage ji -:- Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 05:24:41 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Deborah -:- Great Post NRFPT [nt] -:- Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 22:28:30 (EDT)
__ Gough Whitla -:- My son lied to you all -:- Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 10:17:13 (EDT)
__ __ Jazz police -:- Ask David W/Sc how 'cerise' is. NT -:- Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 11:47:24 (EDT)
__ a0aji -:- There's only one way to shun them, Dave -:- Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 09:29:18 (EDT)
__ __ Sir Dave -:- Re: There's only one way to shun them, Dave -:- Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 10:21:16 (EDT)
__ Mitch Ward -:- A warning -:- Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 05:39:11 (EDT)
__ __ Sir Dave -:- You're welcome to -:- Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 05:44:53 (EDT)
__ __ __ Mitch Ward -:- You are clutching at straws my friend -:- Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 06:00:38 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Steve -:- Warning :the brown acid is not... -:- Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 10:38:05 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- You're a complete bullshit artist -:- Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 07:43:17 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Gough Whitla -:- That is quite and unequivacally correct -:- Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 10:21:54 (EDT)

Jean-Michel -:- On spiritual entrepreneurs -:- Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 01:57:49 (EDT)
__ Richard -:- Re: On spiritual entrepreneurs -:- Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 12:12:50 (EDT)
__ Gregg -:- theo-politics -:- Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 11:14:57 (EDT)
__ Jim -:- Nice find, JM -:- Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 09:21:49 (EDT)


Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 04:28:55 (EDT)
From: Joy
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Not a Leaf Moves
Message:
I was thinking last night about Guru Maharaji's grandiose claim, back in his unashamed Lord of the Universe days, about how not a leaf moves without his will. I was watching an absolutely beautiful documentary on the BBC2, Andes to Amazon, about South American wildlife and geography, and they had spectacular shots of these giant glaciers at the wild southernmost tip of Patagonia crashing off and falling into the sea and I was trying to imagine that drunk punk up in Malibu shacked up with his mistress having anything to do with it and, try as I might, I just couldn't make the connection. It just highlighted for me the total absurdity of how we were hoodwinked all those years into believing this little creep had some sort of divine powers and was worthy of praise and worship.

It's amazing to me how he can try and sweep under the carpet those days in which he claimed to be 'greater than God', grinning smugly up on his throne while thousands sang Arti to him (anyone not familiar with the words to Arti should look them up on EPO straight away--this was sung every day, twice a day, by all ashram premies).

Since not a leaf moves without his direction, why can't he just direct all the money in the world into his bank account (his true aim, not world peace) and be done with it? But I guess that would deprive all the struggling Pauline Premies of an opportunity to practice 'gratitude'. The nerve, the gall, the chutzpah, whatever you want to call it, of this character is just astounding. And what's even more astounding is that he continues to get away with it in some fashion.

Well, since *not a leaf moves* without his will, then this Forum must be part of his Divine Lila also. How kind of him to let us have this space in which to slag him off and blow the whistle. He must be a truly forgiving and magnanimous Lord of the Universe.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Aug 17, 2001 at 01:37:13 (EDT)
From: Mercedes
Email: None
To: Joy
Subject: Re: Not a Leaf Moves
Message:
Hello Joy,
Thank you for your thoughts, I can't believe I had been so blind.
I love nature and that's where I feel connected to my Higher Power I am so glad goober is no longer part of it he really ruins the picture.

I feel saner and saner it was madness running everytime the guy called a program with what 3 days in advance? I am so blessed to be out.

Hope to meet you someday...

Mercedes

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Aug 17, 2001 at 12:51:15 (EDT)
From: anon
Email: None
To: Mercedes
Subject: not a loaf moves [nt]
Message:
[nt]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Aug 17, 2001 at 23:16:57 (EDT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: anon
Subject: Not a Cognac is drunk without....nt
Message:
[nt]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 16:36:47 (EDT)
From: Francesca :C)
Email: None
To: Joy
Subject: Nada beef hooves!
Message:
Hey Joy,

Good ta seeya. Yeah there was this dweeby little tubby rat behind the curtain. Once we shut down his amplifiers (listening to nightly satsang, going to programs, listening to his drivel), we saw that he couldn't get us back to Kansas, or anywhere else we blew in from on the hippie trail.

My hubby was wondering last night that without all that crazy, anything is possible and we can do it energy of the 60s and early 70s, if Hahaharaji would have gotten even a toehold in the West.

So Jai satch baby. Truth is the consciousness he's 'pissed.'

Love ya,
Francesca

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 14:11:55 (EDT)
From: Pauline Premie
Email: None
To: Joy
Subject: How Hateful
Message:
Joy,

I'm not surprised that you are saying such hateful things, that are also FALSE, given that you are part of a HATE GROUP, a HATE GROUP that is SO HATEFUL, that it is associated with, and supportive of FRENCH COMMUNISTS. And FRENCH COMMUNISTS are just the worst of all, according to Linda Gross, and she should know, because she is a lawyer who went to UC Davis, and handles divorces for people in Santa Monica, in between spending all that time being President of Elan Vital, which is not a cult, being that it differs from a cult, because Elan Vital is not WEIRD or a concentration camp, which cults are, you know, as Linda makes clear on her website. Since Elan Vital does not engage in imprisonment, physical torture, or require PWKs to live in an encampment in the jungles of Guyana, it is not a cult, and you are just so HATEFUL to say that it is.

Anyhow, Maharaji, who never claimed to be God, not even once, never said what you said he said, and if you got that idea, like Pia has pointed out from the grave, it's just due to your own confusion and I bet you were also spreading sucht nonsense when you were a premie, and you are just so in the habit of that you continue spreading confusion and lies to this day. That's why you never had that experience.

I bet you were one of those people who spread confusion about 'mind,' that was just so confusing. Maharaji wasn't confusing, it was his followers and other stupid people in the world who were confusing, saying the mind was the brain and all. I'm sure Pia's website will be an opportunity for premies to confess that they caused all the confusion that hate groups like yours are now exploiting and lying about. Poor Maharaji, he has to work so hard to clear up the confusion, but people just keep spreading it. I would have to say, Joy, and I say this in the most loving way possible, that you are a bitch for saying what you said. A hateful, French Communist, bitch.

Anyhow, you are right about one thing. I am very grateful for gratitude. When I am grateful for the gift of gratitude, it makes me more grateful, and that is a nice emotion, much better than a lot of others, you know, like disgust, depression, and having to think about things that are unpleasant. I mean, it beats sticking pins into my face, which I have a tendency to do when I am not occupied by being grateful to Maharaji, being grateful for giving me gratitude and the gift of being grateful to him. It's just so beautiful and fulfilling. I am also grateful for the gift of thirst. You have to have thirst to really feel grateful for the gift of thirsty gratitude. It just makes so much sense, although we can't possibily understand it completely, given that we are less that worthless e-coli bacteria without that thirst and that gratitude.

Pauline Premie

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 22:48:16 (EDT)
From: Simon Satsang
Email: None
To: Pauline Premie
Subject: Ungrateful bitch
Message:
What would I give to be the e-coli bacteria that adorned the lettuce of my Lord. But I don't ask for that, oh no. For I don't deserve to even be on the same planet as my Lord, let alone be in his presence and therefore my prayer is to be allowed to be an organic molecule in the Andromeda Galaxy which is many light years from Earth and yet, oh joy, in the same universe as my Lord. But do I ask too much?

Oh how lucky you are, sister Pauline that you can stick pins in your face on the same planet as the master and indeed, on the same continent.

As you know, I am incontinent and extremely grateful that they have banned me from programs for it is proof of my unworthiness. I am so grateful that our Lord has taken it upon himself to shut his door on me. Such a gift I do not deserve.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 17:49:32 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: Pauline Premie
Subject: you're loco [was 'Re: How Hateful']
Message:
Here's the thing: He did say he was God.

That makes you loco, or grossly misinformed, your choice.

It's a cult.

It's a cult. Say it with me: 'It .. is.. a.. cult.'

Cuuuult. CUUUUUUlt. Cult! It's a cult. It is.

It reaaaaaaaaly is a cult.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 17:52:37 (EDT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: a0aji
Subject: Pauline, you're getting too good!
Message:
That's two people in this thread who recognise your sincerity in your devotion to your Lord. BTW, still living in your car, and selling your blood to pay to get to events?

John.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 16:39:05 (EDT)
From: Joy
Email: None
To: Pauline Premie
Subject: I never actually used the *c* word, Pauline
Message:
. . . that was your own paranoia. If premies aren't in a cult, why are you so uptight about the 'c' word anyhow? (If it looks like a cult, and smells like a cult, and operates like a cult . . . it probably . . . no, couldn't be a cult, could it??)

But I must concede that you are correct in that Maharaji himself never out and out came out and said he was God. In all my years of transcribing his divine satsang, I never heard that sentence. I did, however, hear how he was GREATER than God, and of course in the words to Arti, which were sung so many times at so many blissful festivals which I'm sure you were at, living in your car and having no job as you do, -- in the famous words from Arti: Creator, Preserver, Destroyer, bow their heads and pray to you, all bow and pray unto you. So of course Maharaji is not God, he's GREATER than God, you ninny! Haven't you realized that by now? You can't have gratitude to someone who is merely GOD in person, they have to be greater than God to deserve that gratitude and that devotion.

And I highly resent your insinuation that I never had *that* experience. How dare you? After nine and a half years and thousands of gulab jamuns, which he PERSONALLY told Joan Leahy he liked and asked who made them, I have more than had THAT experience! And I have kissed the Lotus Feet of my Master probably more than you, so I think you need to put in a few thousand more hours under your blanket on your berragon before you can start calling other people experience-less and bitches. FYI, I am neither French, a Communist, nor a bitch, and I have had more of an experience of the Greater-than-God master than I care to for this lifetime so phooey to you, you silly cult member (uh oh, was that the C word that slipped out? I must not be having *that* experience at the moment, I momentarily lost my perspective on my Lord and Master's divine organization).

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 17:24:16 (EDT)
From: Pauline Premie
Email: None
To: Joy
Subject: Derek Harper says it is
Message:
But you are part of a hate group that does, so there.

But I did notice that on the It Ain't So website, authored by the late, great, Pia, Derek Harper says it is a cult but there is nothing wrong with that. But maybe Derek is one of those premies spreading more confusion, because Elan Vital says it isn't a cult. Now I am so confused.

By the way, I think Derek Harper is a cute, but aging, premie from Australia, who was kind of in charge there for for awhile for Elan Vital. In fact, I was told that in 1976, when the ashrams closed in Australia, a lot of the ashram sisters literally lined up outside Derek's room to have sex with him. So, I'm sure Derek doesn't mind whether he's in a cult or not. Know what I mean? Cults leaders have their privileges you know. I just hope Derek's comments don't lead to more confusion, though, we get enough of that from you hateful French Communists.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 13:04:59 (EDT)
From: Tim G
Email: timgitti@indigo.ie
To: Joy
Subject: Re: Not a Leaf Moves
Message:
Hi Joy
Yep, what a delusion the poor man has.

Much more interesting I have found a real gem of a book (can be read in one hour)called 'The Open Secret' by a man called Tony Parsons. It bypasses all the nonesense around spiritual paths and points to a beautiful and loving reality that does not require posturing ,philososhies, punishment, penance, gradualism, spiritual careerism, techniques, meditations. Just a little book about the stuff of what we are when we don't try.
I'm blown away by it.
It can be got from his website or Amazon
Find it at www.theopensecret.com

Off to Turkey for two weeks holiday with my dear ones, some of them
Love
Tim

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 04:49:01 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Joy
Subject: Dear Joy, what a treat
Message:
I'm off to bed. I hope you are well and full of beans. I've been thinking of you lately. With love of course.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 06:08:16 (EDT)
From: Joy
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: And How Nice to See You Here Again Too!
Message:
Hi Patrick. I was delighted, also, to see your long and wonderful post right after mine. I remember with great fondness my recent meeting up with you and lament the fact that everyone has to be so physically far apart on the planet now. Oh well, at least we've all found each other again in cyber-space, and have made many new and interesting connections as well. In the words of my good friend Richard, 'What a long, strange trip it IS!'

Love to you, Chuck and Andy,
Jwa

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Aug 17, 2001 at 04:42:22 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Joy
Subject: Jyoti is ''star'' in Hindu
Message:
Pronounced Jwahti. It is an alternative name for the divine light - prakash. Maybe that's why the baldies in orange sheets couldn't pronounce your name.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Aug 17, 2001 at 19:10:02 (EDT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: 'Jyoti'..name of my daughter NT
Message:
zz
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Aug 17, 2001 at 19:22:46 (EDT)
From: anon
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: What .. Betty-Anne wasn't good enough? ;) [nt]
Message:
[nt]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 14:41:55 (EDT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Joy
Subject: Hi Jwah!
Message:
Funny how the Hindu Mahatmas couldn't say your name. They couldn't even say your name as you slaved waiting on them and preparing them food.

How are you doing? Things are fine here. We've had a kind of a cold summer, but that doesn't bother me too much. Take care,

Joe

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 12:12:33 (EDT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Joy
Subject: Lila or Grace???
Message:
Great post Joy. Today, during my early morning muddle, I vowed to ignore the forum for awhile. Of course, since this is a cult, zombie-like I logged on to find your words of truth. Do you remember Arnie Barrish the wonderfully deranged and delightfully irreverant attorney in Denver? He used to walk around IHQ offices muttering 'Is this Lila or Grace, I can't tell the difference.' It was a freakin' hilarious Zen Koan that helped keep me sane. The only way I survived relatively intact from Bhakti JuJu Central was to simultaneously hold in my mind the belief that GMJ was both SatGuru and spoiled teenager. Can you say schizophrenic? So, after all is said and done, maybe the Speaker's divine leafblower is responsible for those nifty Wiltshire crop circles. Hmmm... Lila or Grace, you make the call.

(Just used that cool "edit this message" feature pointed out by Fancesca. It appears at the bottom of any message you post.)

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 17:56:02 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: sheik rattle and roll [nt]
Message:
[nt]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 18:00:05 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: a0aji
Subject: Michael, row the cult ashore, Halleluiah! [nt]
Message:
[nt]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 04:25:20 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: pdconlon@hotmail.com
To: All
Subject: If you like it, fine. If you don't, walk
Message:
Thus spake Miragey, the Speaker formerly known as the Superior Power in Person. (Now, what if you DO like it but you don't like him?)

I haven't had much time to visit the forum much lately but I did yesterday and a post here directed me to Lifes (sic) Great where I read a few threads too. It is obvious that the premies are not interested in debating with the exes and would seriously like us to disappear conveniently and quietly up our own arseholes never to be heard from evermore. And I wouldn't be surprised if Rev Rawat is praying to his dead daddy every night to get rid of the exes or at least he is cussing us out when he's in his cups.

I also know that the in-crowd of premies (still mostly men like Glen Whitewash Whittaker but with a smattering of women who have the stomach for intrigue and conspiracy - unlike my instructor friend who told me this and more) have heard through the grapevine that Balyouguesswhat has made it clear that exes are his Thomas a Becket. (I wish it were the other way around and that we could say: ''Why won't you rid me of this meddlesome priest?'')

As usual the Executive Friend of Elan Vital has let it be known what he REALLY wants the premies to do without putting it in writing or even saying it. He wants a net Jihad against the exes but without actually ordering it and he can later deny it. The way it works is that he says it to his brother who does not merit the title Raja Ji. RJ tells Glen Ji who in turn tells his chums in the cult like Glasser et al. (Knowing how this works is why I was so disgusted by the overtures made through Patrick Wilson. I knew it was spin.) They now know that the spin no longer works for a growing number of premies who read here. So the ad hominems have taken over - ''the exes are insane drug addicts etc.''

At first I was absolutely revolted by the in-crowd premies' amoral and infantile behaviour but now I see it as a service because several of my premie friends who have read here have expressed a horror at the premie posters' tactics. Most of my premie friends are just ordinary guys who basically never were in the cult (except psychologically, superstitiously and religiously - a folie a deux, a cult of only two, them and their master.) But I also know two instructors in England and two in Australia. I used to know several in the US but all but one have cut me out of their lives. The one thing that these have in common is that they are fairly sensible and down to earth women and do not like the cloak and dagger stuff that Glen and his good old boys so enjoy.

The net Jihad will last as long as the fanatics of the premie in-crowd have got the go-ahead from Rev Rawat. It is actually a blessing in disguise and is upsetting most of my ordinary premie friends. It will not be long before they are driven to make a break out of anger at Rawat's stooges. The net Jihad is making it obvious that it is a cult. Glen and the other forum monitors and their cult pals are doing all of our work for us. Every time Whitla or Glasser (under their mumerous aliases) or any number of other premie ghouls and ghosts makes one of their weird, twisted and irrational posts, another decent premie calls it quits.

Like Sir Dave, I had reservations about being called an ex and went so far as to call myself an unpremie. But it's only a label like liberal or green and I feel quite pleased to attach that label to myself. I was once proud to be called a premie. I thought that we were going to serve all human beings and cheer them up and make them happy and give them peace and take care of them and tell them the truth. I think most exes are still doing that and I am now proud to be called an expremie.

It is so obvious now that the premies who are following the Jihad by posting here are not lovers (premies) but are self-centered, infantile and immoral. In their twisted minds they are serving their god but in reality they are simply fighting to maintain their delusions. It is a fight for survival for their peace of mind because they know that without their master they cannot come home, that, if they doubt the purity of the master, they will be doomed and lost and abandoned. Heavy!

One of my premie friends emailed me and asked, ''Are you sure K works without M?'' Yes, premies, it does. I practiced K in order to get to the point where I felt as full of energy and as strong as I did after darshan. I saw unfortunately that most premies were not interested in developing their own strength but were content to be weak and only get high and feel great when they went to see Rawat. As a result most of the premies in my community are severely mentally unhealthy and often depressed, unbalanced and neurotic.

K does not cure mental problems. Those have to be healed with psychological means. The only reason that Rawat has not addressed the mental health issue is because he is crazy. He demonized the mind because he is nuts. He drank himself into a stupor because he was so depressed and ill at ease, dis-eased. K is for releasing energy and developing strength and feeling great. And I like it - as do quite a few expremies. So, how can I ''walk'' as Rawat has advised me to?

The fact is that I think that all exes liked ''it'' and that's why we cannot ''walk.'' By ''it'' I mean the energy that was around when we first got K. The enthusiasm, the excitement, the love and happiness. What we don't like is the way that rawat has parlayed that into a money-making scam all the while not even really enjoying ''it'' himself or even making any effort to attain ''it.'' He took our simple hope for serving the human race cheerfully and twisted it into a horrible solipsistic cult whose inner-circle henchmen think nothing of lying and playing infantile games.

I'll stop calling myself an expremie and ''walk'' when Rawat tells the truth. I'll walk when he says the following:

1) He was ignorant and opportunistic when he first came to the west and filled out heads with nonsense instead of learning from us - and we had a lot to share.

2) He is a greedy, materialistic and money-grubbing conman with no real love for human beings and a taste for coarse and low pursuits.

3) He knows nothing about kundalini yoga but is using the last four gyanyoga techniques in a superstitious and primitive way as a means of ensnaring people against every ideal that Patanjali ever expressed.

4) He will return all the money that he has conned out of people and put it in a fund for reimbursing premies who suffered at his hands or those of his employees such as Jagdeo.

5) He will study kundalini under a competent teacher and then explain to his devotees that a guru/master is unnecessary (as Patanjali insisted) and free them from the fear of rotting or going to hell if they ''doubt the purity of the master.''

As long he he says things like that last piece of garbage, I will be an ''expremie'' determined to bring him to account and make him atone for his sins against humanity. I detest Rawat because I enjoy what he calls ''Knowledge'' so much. Sorry, premies, but I won't be taking that ''walk'' soon. Rawat knows what I'm talking about. Do you?

I noticed that aOaji posted his pic (thanks) and I recently found this bookmark of Bobby's pics of us exes.

Expremies Then and Now.

Bloody hell - I hate posting this without reviewing it first to see if the link works. WE NEED A PREVIEW MODE FOR NEW POSTS.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Aug 17, 2001 at 19:43:12 (EDT)
From: BTDT
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: If you like it, fine. If you don't, walk
Message:
At the risk of sounding ignorant, what is a 'net jihad'?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 13:46:32 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: BTDT
Subject: Hi BTDT a a net jihad
Message:
At the risk of sounding ignorant, what is a 'net jihad'?


---

I meant attacking the expremies on the internet. Up until recently premies were told not to engage us on the net. Apparently that order from M has been lifted and since then we've seen premies using the net to attack us (Charles Glasser's website calling us insane drug addicts etc.)

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 14:49:17 (EDT)
From: BTDT
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: Hi BTDT a a net jihad
Message:
Ahhhhh. Well then, that's bit hypocritical isn't it?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 17:51:25 (EDT)
From: Ian Dury
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: You are absolutely correct!!!
Message:
Ever since Michael Dettmers and Michael Donner began speaking out, a number of inner-circle PAM's were (and still are) actively trying to 'discredit' Dettmers and Donner. Any pwk who has questions about Dettmers and Donners posts are sent to speak with an instructor and are told that Dettmers and Donner are 'disloyal opportunists, with their own hidden agendas' or 'former disgruntled employees who are upset because Maharaji fired them'.

Paranoia runs deep - when you have something to hide.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 16:49:22 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: To: Patsy, Life is Good...a bit o/t
Message:
Hi Pat!

Great to see you posting again--I agree with Fran, it's a keeper. How are Andy and Charles? How're the four-legged family members? Giving great darshan I'm sure.

Tell Charles that my cat Clara escaped for five days, and one morning, just as I was telling Tom that the ''dynamics of our cat household seem better with two,'' she came back! Those four-leggeds are a wonder for mental health!

A letter in our local rag by our local humane society lady requested today that everyone ''please leave your pets indoors at night!''

The Fishers are coming out extra early this year and have been spotted in the area where we live....a lot of cats have gone missing.

This is o/t I know....Have a great vacation....and give my love through lots of hugs to your family.

Life is good...
Love,
Cynthia

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 16:46:22 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: To: Patsy, Life is Good...a bit o/t
Message:
Hi Pat!

Great to see you posting again--I agree with Fran, it's a keeper. How are Andy and Charles? How're the four-legged family members? Giving great darshan I'm sure.

Tell Charles that my cat Clara escaped for five days, and one morning, just as I was telling Tom that the ''dynamics of our cat household seem better with two,'' she came back! Those four-leggeds are a wonder for mental health!

A letter in our local rag by our local humane society lady requested today that everyone ''please leave your pets indoors at night!''

The Fishers are coming out extra early this year and have been spotted in the area where we live....a lot of cats have gone missing.

This is o/t I know....Have a great vacation....and give my love through lots of hugs to your family.

Life is good...
Love,
Cynthia

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 16:51:52 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Shit! Why do....
Message:
my posts appear twice? Ya got me! It's gotta be the fuckin' netscape browser. But IE is worse! Yikes!

My computer is a *#!))))))#*#*#*#*#* pest!

Sorry for taking up the space!

C

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 18:54:49 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: hi Cynthia......................OT
Message:
I will give C and A hugs from you and tell Chuck about your pussies and the fishers. Posting that message got me in trouble because I then just had to read the forum this am and answer and ended up late for the salt mines. But it's great to see all you guys again. Only two more weeks of 14 hour days and I'll be back with a vengeance. Hope you are settled in. Love, Pat
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 15:38:25 (EDT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: If you like it, fine. If you don't, walk
Message:
Pat, very interesting, but I think you're overstating some things. But I don't agree there is a 'jihad' and if Maharaji doesn't like what we are saying, which I don't doubt, are you suggesting that he wants premies to take some kind of violent action to stop people from saying what they are saying? That's ridiculous.

And if by 'jihad' you mean premies trying to counter what exes are saying on the internet, that is a change, but it happened a long time ago when Maharaji gave up on his 'anti-internet' view and put up his own website and EV did the same. That opened the can of worms and was a terrible mistake. Premies, actually anyone, talking about Maharaji in any kind of an open forum is completely detrimental to what he wants.

Charles Glasser Jr., has said some outrageous things, and he has paid the price, and will continue to pay the price if he continues. It destroys his credibility and it makes Maharaji look awful.

I think it was just sooner or later that there would be some kind of response from premies, but as you know they are terrified to address anything specifically, so all we get is, 'I don't care' about Maharaji's past, personal life, and all the rest. If it's a 'jihad' it's about the most inept one I could imagine.

I think you give Rawat more credit than he is due for having some kind of 'plan' to deal with ex-premies. Maharaji has never planned anything much in his life, and is awful at it when he tries. I think he just reacts at the time, obviously uncarring about how that contradicts his earlier statements, positions or 'plans.'

And as for liking 'it,' the enthusiasm around the cult in the 70s, yes I did like some of it for awhile. But I don't want it back, and I'm not looking for that and current premies don't have it either. I think the reason I liked the cult in the beginning is because it relieved stress, gave me a purpose for life, and I liked a lot of the premies. That's why I liked it. But I was a distressed adolescent at the time, so I was susceptible to it. I don't think 'knowledge' or practicing 'knowledge' had anything to do with making me feel good, and never did. And it doesn't for premies now, either. Plus, I don't see much of any 'enthusiasm' among premies now. It's entirely different in that respect. It's just a Maharaji religion now.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 18:07:35 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Nice post, Joe. [was: 'If you like it..'] [nt]
Message:
[nt]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 16:46:35 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: A quick recap, Joe
Message:
Up until a few months ago PSR had told premies not to engage with us on the net. I even posted an email from one of my EV honcho friends saying that people like Whitla were an embarrasment to PSR. (I posted it on AG as it outed DW against FV policies.)

Well, recently the word among the in-crowd premies is that PSR has given the nod to engage us anyway they want. Like you, I don't believe that he is competent enough to make plans and probably said something like, ''Yeah, go get those bastards!'' when he was drunk. But he does have an innate cunning and is shrewdy in a sleazy way.

PS I have watched that Burton/O'Toole movie many times. Suposedly they played rude with each other in their teens and then continued the homoeroticism as adults by bedding the same woman.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 17:38:45 (EDT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Who is PSR?
Message:
I really doubt Maharaji says the same thing about much of anything from one day to the next. Only his stage act is relatively consistent -- boring and empty but consistent.

Your EV honcho friends think that posts are embarrassing?

So, will the EV honchos now start 'getting the bastards?' We certainly haven't seen that. It seems it's mostly the bongo fringe that is willing to engage in posts about Maharaji on the internet. Until we see the likes of Linda Gross, and initiators, Glen Whittaker, and the EV establishment posting and defending M in an open forum setting, I won't believe there is some kind of directive from Himself to do that.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 18:57:11 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: PSR = Prempal Singh Rawat [nt]
Message:
[nt]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 19:04:58 (EDT)
From: ji
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Not pastrami, swiss on rye? [nt]
Message:
[nt]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 15:46:14 (EDT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: I'll be Thomas a Becket
Message:
Played by Richard Burton of course. It is widely believed that Thomas and Henry were lovers at some point, hence there was a lot of personal business involved, besides church/state concerns. I'd love to be able to excommunicate people who I find annoying.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 14:54:49 (EDT)
From: Patrick Wilson
Email: patrick@patrickwilson.com
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: If you like it, fine. If you don't, walk
Message:
I also know that the in-crowd of premies...have heard through the grapevine that Balyouguesswhat has made it clear that exes are his Thomas a Becket.

I don't undestand what the parallel is here. Is Maharaji supposed to be like Henry 2nd or what? Please explain, I am mystified about this simile.

He wants a net Jihad against the exes but without actually ordering it and he can later deny it. The way it works is that he says it to his brother who does not merit the title Raja Ji. RJ tells Glen Ji who in turn tells his chums in the cult like Glasser et al. (Knowing how this works is why I was so disgusted by the overtures made through Patrick Wilson. I knew it was spin.)

Without wanting to get too bogged down in this -on the occasion that Michael Dettmers was staying here in Brighton he did indeed speak and subsequently see Raja Ji but it was Michael's idea to call him (since they were old friends) and not Glen's or mine. (although I told Michael that Raji Ji was in town) My part in this was merely to attempt to locate Raja Ji for Michael, to which end I asked Glen for a number. Glen, for your information, did not provide any number and furthermore said that he was of the opinion that Raja Ji would not want to speak with anyone who had spoken against Maharaji in the way Michael had done.
Michael eventually got a message throuygh to Raja Ji through someone else. Raja Ji rung back. Actually no overtures were made through me at all. Raja Ji almost certainly would not have wanted their private meeting to be public knowledge and I think I rather put my foot in it mentioning it . NB. Michael Dettmers has emphasised that their meeting was private and as such he never received any 'spin' message to broadcast. To be honest with you, I have no idea what they talked about. So there was no spin put out on that occasion unless you are suggesting I was the author of the spin.

Actually I hoped that that meeting might give Michael a better chance to get his complaints directly heard by Maharaji via his brother. I don't know what the outcome of their meeting was. From what Dettmer's said it was kind of more or less personal between him and Raja Ji and not about the poilitics of M and exes. OK?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 23:37:02 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Patrick Wilson
Subject: You're right
Message:
Michael told me in an email that they had an agreement that he (Michael) would NOT discuss their conversation on forum. Not that they didn't talk about Maha (I can't see how the topic could be avoided) but the meeting was to get together as friends.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 15:15:40 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Patrick Wilson
Subject: Good day, Patrick
Message:
Yes, I was referring to Henry 11. After Becket was murdered the king punished the assassins and wept and said that he had been misunderstood.

I was not really talking about the Dettmers/RJ meeting. I don't remember the details of the stuff leading up to it but I do recall that Glen said some nice sounding reconciliatory stuff like the expremies concerns are being taken seriously and his holeyness is addressing the issues etc.

At the time I was annoyed that you seem to think that he was sincere and made the mistake of badmouthing you for which I apologised. I wish I could recall the exact dates of those posts because I would like to reread them. My point is that, at the time you and several others seemed to be pleased by Rawat's reconciliatory gestures but that I saw them as cynical spin. I hope I have made myself clear that I do not doubt your sincerity.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 15:10:08 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Patrick Wilson
Subject: Big mistake, Patrick W
Message:
Raja Ji rung back.

Rang?

Credibility, Patrick. Credibility.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 14:43:23 (EDT)
From: such
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: miragey's dirty work: by premie proxy
Message:
Ever notice how miragey always has da poor premies do his dirty work for him?

for example, let some innocent premie servant take the rap on the police report after the vehicular manslaughter in India, direct premies to aid and abet the flight of criminal fugitive assassins Fakiranand and Fletcher, get some premies to pass da word along that he would like a new luxury car, get some premies to cajole and lay guilt-trips on each community to fork out dough for a new jet, direct premies to procure blonde young women devotees for his sexual pleasure, get premies to buy his drugs and booze, approve a premie jihad against the heretical brothers and sisters [i.e. 'this is a war'], etc. etc. etc. -- so his own stained hands can publicly appear clean.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 15:18:11 (EDT)
From: TED Farkel
Email: None
To: such
Subject: Mr. banana, ole TED'S a bit confused here...
Message:
Dear Mr. S-banana-

With all due respect sir, I have to say that your statements about our Lord and master, Prem Pal, are a might bit confusing, son...

See, our Speaker doesn't get anyone to do his dirty work for him...

And that's cos he's his own man, and also cos not a leaf moves without him doing it, which if you studied some of them old satsangs of our Speakers, you would quickly surmise...

So, our Speaker does EVERYTHING in this world, it's just an illusion that we think its all these other dudes doing things....
So its really Prem Pal who's doing all that mischief, and your all caught up in the illuion when you think its the premies doin it for him...

At least that's the way ole Dave Smith explained it to me last night after a half dozen foamies after the nature videos at the end of satsang...

Sincerely,
TED Farkel

PS: Mr. S-banana, Dave told me not to tell too many people that Prem Pal does EVERYTHING (I guess that includes starting and maintaining this site...hmmm..), but jus kinda keep it under your hat, so to speak...
I'm sure you understand.....

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 16:24:58 (EDT)
From: such
Email: None
To: TED Farkel
Subject: will keep it under me turban
Message:
[hush-hush]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 14:14:15 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Great post, Pat
Message:
Patrick,

I like your post so much I'm taking the liberty of reposting it on LG. However, because, as you know, I think Kundalini and all like philosophies are bunk, I'm taking the further liberty of excising that part of your post from my repost. Indeed, I feel so strongly about this that I'm taking the even further liberty of replacing that part with the following:

Having exhausted myself instepcting the archaic, pre-scientific philosphical curio cabinet of Indian spirituality, I'm happy to finally report there's no there there. To paraphrase many who traditionally plagiarized each other with great abandon, if you took all the waters in the ocean and converted it to ink, and all the forests in the world and turned them into paper, and wrote all the ideas of God and spirituality that have ever crossed man's mind, you would have completely wasted a hell of a lot of water and a hell of a lot of wood for sweet fuck all.

I'd have run this by you first but I knew you wouldn't mind.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 14:30:32 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Excuse me Jim, you do believe in yoga
Message:
I thought you had just taken up exercising and are beginning to feel very nice. As Joe pointed out it releases endorphins. Now that's kundalini - the ''coiled energy'' which is released through exercise (or ecstatic devotion or transcendental faith etc.) Rawat's K is a perversion of the yoga mental health techniques to stop people from having nutty ideas about that energy.

Anyway I like your rewrite because, eventhough I am a card-carrying breatharian, I don't buy the primitive Hindu BS. I just hope you also repost the doggie darshan link on LG too.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 15:07:08 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Yoga? No, not the theory
Message:
Pat,

I definitely don't buy into any of the philosphy behind yoga but of course any kind of physical activity like it could be better than nothing and even quite peaceful if it's peacful kind of stuff. Like Tai Chi, I guess. Same thing. Kundalini, though, the whole idea of 'spiritual energy coiled at the base of the spine' which can be 'awakened' is, as far as I know, bunk. Endorphins aren't, to the best of my knowledge, bundled up at the base of one's spine. Nor can esoteric juju practises release a torrent of them in a bold explosion of spiritual empowerment and enlightenment. And I think it's unfair to science and too kind to hindu philosophy to force the endorsement.

That's what I think, anyway.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 15:19:20 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Yoga? I don't disagree
Message:
I hope you realize that I use all those Hindu words because of the audience. Like you I think all the spiritual stuff is pure BS. Actually I am beginning to think that most spiritual stuff came from taking psychedelic drugs and are imaginary.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 12:34:06 (EDT)
From: Francesca :C)
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: ***BEST OF FORUM*** yeah, baby
Message:
Pat,

Just wanted to add that the 'edit this message' function is grand. Just read your message once you've posted it, hit that link and edit away. It will fix the message on the fly. I've even gone to other web pages and come back to F6 and been able to fix it. Not sure if I can do it once I've closed the browser.

So try it, you'll like it. It's almost as good. It just means that the 'mistakes' are posted until you fix em. Not a biggie.

LOVE, Francesca

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 14:33:01 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Francesca :C)
Subject: Thanks, Francesca for the tip
Message:
about the edit mode. I had used it once before but I wrote my post late last night and was not thinking straight.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 12:33:33 (EDT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Pat answer to M's 'just walk'.
Message:
Good going Pat. As I posted to Joy above, I woke up thinking no more forum only to find you've distilled megabytes of forum posts into a statement Martin Luther would have been proud of. 'Just walk' is about as empty, passive agressive and dismissive a slogan as Nancy Reagan's 'Just Say No to Drugs'. I did walk in 1987 but eventually had to return to face the reasons I came to GMJ in the first place and why I walked later. I've concluded - after months of reading, posting and introspection - that all I would like to hear from Prem Pal Singh Rawat (too much dissonance in calling him Maharaji anymore) is his taking personal responsibility beginning with his allowing, through commission or ommission, Jagdeo and others to abuse human beings in the name of SatGuru. Maybe I want to see a bit of humanity from him so I don't have to feel so odd at having believed he was ever divine.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 10:34:25 (EDT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Nict to read you again, Pat [nt]
Message:
[nt]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 08:27:30 (EDT)
From: Bob o
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: If you like it, fine. If you don't, walk
Message:
Very good and cool post pat!!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 06:52:52 (EDT)
From: Senor Catweasel
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: If you don't, walk
Message:
Speaking as one who has been around these parts for a while now Pat , amd also as someone every bit as well informed as your spies, let me tell you one simple thing. There is no Jihad. But you will find that many people who do not agree with you wil not allow your opinions to stand with complete impugnity.
Your descriptive narrative is simply the product of your ever over active and creative , if not a little paranoid imagination.
Collectively to a lot of people you lot are a pain in the arse.(Me ? I dont care but I think there is an amazing amount of bullshit spouted here.) So I guess we agree with your spies version of M's feelings. You have safety in numbers here ,that is all. (Dont agree? Chop em down quick Discredit them! . Describe how brainwashed they all are.)
Simple fact is you are the one with the problem. You are the one bitchin . If you dont like... as you say ... WALK
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 08:31:57 (EDT)
From: Bobo
Email: None
To: Senor Catweasel
Subject: Re: If you don't, walk
Message:
Why don't you ever come up with some substance?? Even from my premie years I cannot remember a taboo on that like you seem to have. Does knowledge and 'the master' really erode human features that much???

Or are you just a dumb asshole?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 09:26:08 (EDT)
From: CW
Email: None
To: Bobo
Subject: Re: If you don't, walk
Message:
This is cyberspace Bobo. You think you are talking to someone. Try and get this. There doesn't need to be substance. This is not Philosopy 3 at Princeton. And Bobo? With a name like that you call for substance. Give me a break!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 14:17:49 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: That's quite an admission, Cat
Message:
It's good to see you admit that you never actually say anything. I wonder what you think you could possobily accomplish this way. Must be just a nervous reaction to the truth, I guess.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 22:59:50 (EDT)
From: CW
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: That's quite an admission, Cat
Message:
Oh but I do sometimes Jim. Yes sometimes I really get down and talk things through. But not with you or any of your minions!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 14:03:31 (EDT)
From: Bobo
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: You make yourself very clear
Message:
So I can safely assume your density is a direct consequence of xx years of devotion and practice(?) ?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 14:53:16 (EDT)
From: such
Email: None
To: Bobo
Subject: cult-think: 'substance'-abuse [nt]
Message:
hohoho
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 23:48:56 (EDT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: All
Subject: PIA's page updated
Message:
with a tribute to her.

http://it-aint-so.org/

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 19:17:25 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: A little black humour anyone?
Message:
I sure hope they've got something better to remember Pia by than this funny quote which flies like a banner on her tribute page:

'One moment of true joy is worth more than any moment of sorrow' - Pia

Like, duh!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 21:19:34 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com
To: Jim
Subject: A new Saint?
Message:
How can you have 'true joy'? It's like saying true water. Water is always water, if it isn't, it's not water. Same with joy. It either is or isn't joy.

To be pedantic here, I disagree with the idea that a moment of joy is worth more than a moment of sorrow. It negates a large percentage of human experience. For example, some of the best songs are sad songs. Some of the most moving stories are sad stories. Without a comprehension of sorrow, people would be extremely superficial.

I think they are turning Pia into a Saint. Will there be a little book out soon called, ''Thus spake Pia'' full of her quotes? If there is such a thing, albeit an online version, it should also include her quotes where she demonised the ex-premies and claimed that we were lying.

Death is always a difficult thing for the people who knew the deceased but I guess it's par for the course for organisations to try to exploit someone's death to the organisation's own advantage. Let's face it, very few online people actually knew Pia. Her death does not affect them really. But Elan Vital will no doubt use her death and her quotes to further its own ends, Maharaji's own ends.

''Look at those horrible, heartless ex-premies, criticising what Saint Pia has written''.

I think it's hollow to venerate people just because they've died. We all die, the good, the bad and the ugly. We're all pretty equal in that respect and worth both criticism and praise after we've gone, just as in our living years.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 19:34:01 (EDT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Existential Question
Message:
'One moment of true joy is worth more than any moment of sorrow' - Pia

Is it? Why is one moment more valuable than another? I mean, if you know you are breathing it doesn't matter, does it? Ooops, I guess Pia isn't here to answer that question.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 19:56:11 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: You don't need to go that deep
Message:
I don't have a problem with someone saying that a moment of 'true joy' (as opposed to plain old joy?) is worth more than many moments of sorrow. That makes some kind of sense. It's even a cliche of sorts, I think. But the way Pia's quoted here .... I dunno. Kind of like saying one American dollar's worth more than one Canadian. She must not have been thinking.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Aug 17, 2001 at 18:46:09 (EDT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Well, my point was..
Message:
For a premie, if you remember your breath, one moment is not more valuable than another, they are all valuable and wonderful, and all equally precious. That's Maharaji's ideology, which Pia seemed to be contradicting on her deathbed.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 23:57:40 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: What a sad, sad joke
Message:
Among Pia's last words for the site:

The core piece of this site is personal responsibility. I hope to see people saying how their own confusion sometimes led to confusion in others. Then they couldn't foresee the consequences. Now they could explain their confusion and what they learned from it. For example - the abuse of Knowledge by assuming it could do things it couldn't and losing sight of what it could do. Also the way we used the word 'mind' - became confused with brain. It became an excuse not to think things through and for putting aside personal responsibility. '

Jesus Christ!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 11:07:26 (EDT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: What irony!
Message:
Knowledge isn't supposed to work unless you get rid of all your concepts. Yet premies invariably hold on to a whole set of concepts, hand-fed to them by Rawat. They never open up to life as it is, only to life as they have been instructed to see it. Can they really maintain such a narrow perspective even facing death?

I wrote to Pia soon after she started her website. I nearly begged her to interact with the ex-premies directly and to try and understand our concerns. I asked her to stop calling our concerns 'lies.' And I asked, as sincerely as I could, for her to read the 14 objections letter and to indentify any lies therein. I promised her I would do every thing I could to correct the misinformation.

But nothing. Nothing but more accusations and not one bit of direct, decent, common human communication. Their only interest is to protect their beliefs and to protect Rawat, and to demonize the exes.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 14:27:58 (EDT)
From: such
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: from da demon-mind to de-mean-exes
Message:
da cult need to exorcise its own demons -- maha, jagdeo, cult-think, etc.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 03:19:53 (EDT)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: m.'s own confusion confused others!
Message:
Among Pia's last words for the site:

The core piece of this site is personal responsibility. I hope to see people saying how their own confusion sometimes led to confusion in others. Then they couldn't foresee the consequences. Now they could explain their confusion and what they learned from it. For example - the abuse of Knowledge by assuming it could do things it couldn't and losing sight of what it could do. Also the way we used the word 'mind' - became confused with brain. It became an excuse not to think things through and for putting aside personal responsibility. '

Jesus Christ!


---

miragey's cult-inculcated behaviours:

miragey's 'confusion sometimes led to confusion in others.'

miragey's 'abuse of Knowledge by assuming it could do things it couldn't'

the way miragey 'used the word 'mind' -- became confused with brain.'

Yes, indeed.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 03:18:44 (EDT)
From: such
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: explains how m.'s confusion confused others! [nt]
Message:
Among Pia's last words for the site:

The core piece of this site is personal responsibility. I hope to see people saying how their own confusion sometimes led to confusion in others. Then they couldn't foresee the consequences. Now they could explain their confusion and what they learned from it. For example - the abuse of Knowledge by assuming it could do things it couldn't and losing sight of what it could do. Also the way we used the word 'mind' - became confused with brain. It became an excuse not to think things through and for putting aside personal responsibility. '

Jesus Christ!


---

miragey's cult-inculcated behaviours:

miragey's 'confusion sometimes led to confusion in others.'

miragey's 'abuse of Knowledge by assuming it could do things it couldn't'

the way miragey 'used the word 'mind' -- became confused with brain.'

Yes, indeed.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 01:02:05 (EDT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Edited for accuracy
Message:
The core piece of this site is personal responsibility. I hope to see Maharaji saying how his own confusion sometimes led to confusion in others. Then Maharaji couldn't foresee the consequences. Now he could explain his confusion and what he learned from it. For example - the abuse of Knowledge by assuming it could do things it couldn't and losing sight of what it could do. Also the way he used the word 'mind' - became confused with brain. It became an excuse not to think things through and for putting aside personal responsibility.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 03:23:31 (EDT)
From: such
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: m. accountability; do the Krishnamurti - fess up! [nt]
Message:
[nt]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 22:15:47 (EDT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: All
Subject: something of interest
Message:
http://www.midcoast.com/~jim/bbs/messages/996.html#followups
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 20:10:13 (EDT)
From: Deena
Email: None
To: All
Subject: WOW!
Message:
I read all the messages from my post...it was so great to hear from you all! Joe, that is so kind, what you said about me. In answer to your question Jim, about Lawrence Bittner...the name rings a bell but he was part of the gang here before I arrived in '83 I quess. And as far as my son...he's in second year of Bible College, working at Walmart to pay his tuition and living in our basement. We have the same deal, he doesn't preach to me either. It's his life and he's happy. He and his dad are addicted to golf, playing every chance they get. A healthy addiction from what I can see...seems to me M wasn't fond of Charannand's devotion to the game.

I still consider you folks to be good friends, you helped me in a very difficult time and for that I was always be grateful.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 20:36:13 (EDT)
From: Deena
Email: None
To: Deena
Subject: P.S. to Joe
Message:
My dog will be 9 in Oct. so she's slowing down a bit but still quite the character!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 14:44:18 (EDT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Deena
Subject: Aging Dogs
Message:
Nigel, my Dalmatian is now 10, but you would never know it. He is as active as ever (and demanding) as ever, but still a nice guy.

So good to hear from you again.

Joe

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 04:45:30 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: pdconlon@hotmail.com
To: Deena
Subject: Re dogs, Deena: Bow Wow, worship and adore
Message:
Get some doggie darshan
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 21:08:45 (EDT)
From: Deena
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: Re dogs, Deena: Bow Wow, worship and adore
Message:
HILARIOUS!!! THANKS FOR THE LAUGHS!!!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 14:23:32 (EDT)
From: such
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: guess it's a doggie dog world! [nt]
Message:
[nt]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 17:01:00 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: such
Subject: Some of my best friends are old dogs and cats! [nt]
Message:
[nt]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 19:56:39 (EDT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: All
Subject: To those who use Geocities (OT)
Message:
From a newsletter I read:

'WEB BUGS' TRACK INTERNET USE
A new Cyveillance report finds that 'Web bugs'--invisible technology that gathers information on Web site visitors--are embedded in 18 percent of personal Web pages, compared to less than 0.5 percent in 1998. Companies such as America Online and Yahoo!'s Geocities include Web bugs in the Web page-building technology they offer free to users. Spokesmen for Web bug distributors claim that the technology is not in any way used to
collect personally identifiable data on visitors, but privacy proponents are concerned, especially when consumers are unaware that their personal pages host Web bugs. Yahoo! does not mention
the fact that Web bugs are placed on personal pages, and AOL fails to describe their use. 'It's extremely troubling--the technology should not be used to collect information in such a covert way,' argued PricewaterhouseCoopers' Scott Charney.
(New York Times, 14 August 2001)

Francesca

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 21:04:30 (EDT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: Re: To those who use Geocities (OT)
Message:
This is a tracking network that work through cookies exchange. You can stop it by using a jamming program. There is one free at:

www.idcide.com

once u install it, it will tell you who is tracking you will a list of the websites. nice little program which pisses the crap out of the big boys.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 22:06:37 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Thanks for the tip Salam [nt]
Message:
[nt]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 14:51:54 (EDT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: All
Subject: December, 2000 additions to residence
Message:
In December, 2000, there was a meeting of the California Coastal Commission, at which Maharaji apparently made an application to made additions to the theme park he lives in in Malibu, as follows. Again, it appears 'the residence' is owned by the shell corporation, Seva Corporation. Gate houses, gates, fencing. Is somebody paranoid?

f. Application No. 4-00-180 (SEVA, Malibu) Application of SEVA Corporation of America for 475 sq.ft. gate house, trash enclosure, dog run, two entry gates, fencing, and septic system, at 5812 South Rambla Del Orto, in Malibu, Los Angeles County. (SMH-V) [APPROVED WITH CONDITIONS]

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 21:11:04 (EDT)
From: such
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: r.e. dog run. m said dogs are 'stupid'
Message:
+ Shri Hans called premies his 'dogs' and his 'slaves'.

ergo': maybe the dog run is for m.'s poor stupid slave dog premies.

yikes! hohoho

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 17:24:34 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: New Septic? 'Cos he's full o' shit?
Message:
...and in the gatehouse how much more high-tech security stuff are they putting in there!

His decadence has become truly disgusting! Who does he think he is, Bill Gates?

I cannot fathom the way he lives!

The asshole!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 17:30:42 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: why're you insulting *shit*? ;) [nt] [nt]
Message:
[nt]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 17:39:13 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: a0aji
Subject: Re: why're you insulting *shit*? ;)
Message:
No shit!

HI!

Long time no talk! How are you? I hope you're well and all that shit!

I noticed a couple of your posts today. You missed a lot of stuff unless you've been peeking.

I'm very happy to see you back, stick around!

Love,
Cynthia

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 17:52:15 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: chris@hafey.com
To: Cynthia
Subject: Re: why're you insulting *shit*? ;)
Message:
Hey, keep throwing that love my way.

I haven't been peeking -- not this summer, at least. I think every
time I drop by I say *something* -- easy to miss in the scrimmage.

I quit smoking again. I hope I stopped in time!
[ Graphic Link ]

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 16:54:38 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: a0aji
Subject: Oh Chris...
Message:
You know I love ya. Lots of hugs coming your way.

Good luck on the smoking. (Time for me, too)!

Much love,
Cynthia

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 17:37:30 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Re: Oh Chris...
Message:
You know I love ya. Lots of hugs coming your way.

Good luck on the smoking. (Time for me, too)!

Much love,
Cynthia


---

Thanks, Cynthia.

Today was a tough day! A week and a half without a craving; today
was like I was going to lose an arm pinned under a car wreck, and
the only way to save it was to have a cigarette. I didn't, but
it's all I thought about for hours and hours (seems to be passing,
now).

Very /physical/ withdrawal symptoms -- for no reason I can think of.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 18:18:37 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: a0aji
Subject: Fuck, we don't need no charismatic master
Message:
We are all so bloody charismatic ourselves. Nice one aOaji.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 19:42:27 (EDT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Give us a smile starboy [nt]
Message:
[nt]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 05:04:13 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: photographing the jiva on a shoestring budget
Message:
That's the problem with a camera -- if you're good at using it
you still can't photograph yourself very easily!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 17:37:15 (EDT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: a0aji
Subject: how about some indian food in 2 weeks? [nt]
Message:
[nt]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 17:39:41 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: I'm living in Torrington [nt]
Message:
[nt]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 14:46:16 (EDT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: All
Subject: What cult property is this?
Message:
The following single family residence in Malibu is owned by Seva Corporation, the Corporation of which Mary Holle is president, and which owns Maharaji's Gulfstream and various other big item toys of Maharaji. Anyhow, Seva owns this property. The address is 31334 Anacapa View Drive. It this were the residence servants of the former Lord of the Universe live? Anybody know?

REAL PROPERTY TAX ASSESSOR
Information Current: through
Last Updated: (Updated on a HISTORICAL basis)
Filed:
County: LOS ANGELES
Assessors Parcel Number: 4470-011-051
Assessed Value (Land): $244,992
Assesed Value (Buildings): $2,639,870
Assessed Value (Total): $2,884,862
Improvement: 91%
Lot Size: A477.00
Year Built: 1958
Year Renovated: 1968
Number of Bathrooms: 0
Number of Half Baths: 0
Building/Living Area: 4,857
Tract: 8004.02
Land Use: SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENCE
Map ID: 111-D4
Sales Amount: $23,000
Transfer Date: 05-31-1978
Tax Rate Area: 8635
Comments: Assessment Year 1996
Comments: County Use - 0100
Comments: Absentee Owner
Lot Area: 20,778,120
Type of Sale: FULL CONSIDERATION
Property Address: 31334 ANACAPA VIEW DR
MALIBU, CA 90265
Mailing Address: PO BOX 4029 MALIBU CA 90264
Name: SEVA CORPORATION OF AMERICA & ]A
Name Type: Absentee Owner

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 16:19:02 (EDT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: What cult property is this?
Message:
that is part of the land the residence sprawls on. i just came from yahoo maps, where i have had this logged, mapped and satellite photographaed by terraserve.com for at leat 6 months. the address in the thread above this on, on rambla del orto, is on the same stretch of road, if you take a left turn off anacapa view drive, south, past the residence. apparently mj wants to move his access gates around the corner and farther away from the house, increasing his land spread in the process. It's all one great big parcel, with two adresses because it has entrances from two streets at right angles to each other. if you follow a map of trancas canyon road, up from PCH, west of Point Dume, and stay to the left side of the road, you eventuall see a breakaway to the left, the first such left turn you can make to leave TRn Cyn. Rd. this takes you onto a winding switchback heading due west, called anacapa view drive. on the map, it undulates up and down like--surprise--a big 'M'. the house and first entrance is at the top of the right-hand peak of the 'M'. the rambla del orto entrance is at the bottom angle of the big 'M', where the two halves meet in the middle like a V.

judging by this document, I'd say that this land was first bought in 1958 and built on in 1968, probably the so called 'dilapidated'property mj first saw in the early 70's and wanted to have for himself. the askign price is probably what it was assessed at then.

notice that it says it is now, at the time of the assessment, 91% improved, in 1996. [yeah, I'll say--}.
after the first of the fires, MJ bought more of the land around his house and cleared off the vegetation, at the advice of the fire marshals. since then, it seems he has continued to improve, replace, expand, add and revise the estate as he wishes. this deed is only a part of the process, as is the one in the above thread.

or so it seems to me, just on common sense.

'absentee landowner' refers to SEVA. the owner doesnt live there. course not. it isnt FOR them. they dont get to live in it. they just own it.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 21:06:48 (EDT)
From: such
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: I helped save 'his' house from fires! [nt]
Message:
[nt]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 16:29:49 (EDT)
From: Francesca ~)
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Good work, janet! [nt]
Message:
[nt]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 15:36:57 (EDT)
From: Francesca ~)
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: What does SALES amount mean?
Message:
If I'm reading this right, the place was assessed for over $2.8 million dolllars and it was sold for $23,000? A 5,000 square foot single family dwelling. Must be nize, eh? I could stand to buy one a doze for $23k. I'm sure folks would be lining up.

Where is Seva Corporation incorporated and what else do they do (if anything) besides apparently launder 'toys' for the Drunken King? (hic!)

Anybody? Is there already some stuff on EPO about this that someone could point me to?

Bests, Francesca

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 16:34:58 (EDT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Francesca ~)
Subject: Re: What does SALES amount mean?
Message:
seems to me that they must have bought it from the original owner [58-68 dates named in document] for 23K in 1978, have 91% improved it, and this is it's assessed value now.
apparently this is just the value of the LAND it sits on. the price of the house isn't in this. this is only the piece of god's earth he calls home. otherwise known as the responsibility-free zone of Rawat.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 17:56:33 (EDT)
From: Francesca :C)
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Sounds right, janet
Message:
Since the transfer date is 1978. Stuff WAS pretty cheap then, but hard to believe it went up that much. Like the 'responsibility-free Zone.' You got that right, girl.

love, Francesca

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 17:35:48 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Must be nice....
Message:
I can't tell by that info what the size of the lot is. But the total assessed value in 1996 was $2,884,862US.

Now was that BEFORE the renovations or AFTER the renovations. It had to be before because I heard that the cost of renovations was in the $10s of millions.

Whatever....that's a lot of land to have on the Malibu shoreline though. I bet m and m can be there all day together and never have to even SEE eachother!

I'd be curious to find out what the assessment value is in 2001-02, after all the newly permitted changed are made. A septic system for a house of that size alone has to astronomical. The gatehouse will probably be made of emeralds, though, so ya never know...

Great work, you guys!
Love,
Cynthia

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Aug 17, 2001 at 05:24:44 (EDT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: not on the shoreline at all.
Message:
you misunderstand the placement of the address. this isnt down at water level where the beach is. it's a long way back, up in the dry, scrubby canyons that have been eroded by eons of fires, mudslides, parched summers and flooded rains in winter, all along the pacific coast.Think oldtime cowboy landscapes: the canyons, the scrublands, the badlands.the entire area is classified as desert, albeit with some altitude. water is scarce and rare, not seen from april to november. the vegetation is adapted to desert conditions: small, waxy, water hoarding, tough and scraggly. some of the species won;t even reseed unless seared and popped open by the yearly cycles of wildfire. creosote bushes are native to the canyons.this real estate is no eden. and the view of the ocean is a looong way off in the distance. theres a lot of dry, rocky, dusty, dangerous ravine standing between Rawat's sliding bedroom glass wall and the pacific. as well as plenty of other malibu real estate similarly dug out of the canyonsides. not what you picture. there is no way to the residence except the single road that goes by on its way to the dead end around the final turn. if you were to try to climb up the canyonside on any other approach, you'd be exposed and seen for miles around.I do have one former friend who likes to go hiking freeform up there, who accidentally hapened upon the res when it was under construction some years ago. he climbed up the canyon wall and narrowly made it over the top with his life, only to find himself alongside a mysterious construction project the likes of which he had never seen before:the wall facing the ocean was curved and made of 2x6's turned crosswise and bound together like sliced bread. these were the foundation walls in the earth. he followed the wall curve and came out to a leveled area with two immense gates on pillars, that swung- one in, one out. they were inlaid with incredibly heavy stained glass insets like a stained glass window, but inches thick. he wandered into the interior space and found the layout of a garden at the center of what seemed to be a heart-shaped house outline, and at the very center of this garden was a diamond shape. He wanted to snoop around more, but something seemed to command him to go no further, to go out the gate and keep walkg away. he ended up at pepperdine university, he said, just over the next rise of land.another friend of mine whowas called to do some of the work at the res, confirmed to me that indeed, that was the house. it fit the description of what he saw when he worked on it.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 16:03:12 (EDT)
From: Francesca ~)
Email: None
To: Francesca ~)
Subject: Found SEVA EPO stuff on Google [nt]
Message:
[nt]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 14:21:18 (EDT)
From: Francesca ~)
Email: None
To: All
Subject: A place to complaint about EV
Message:
The Better Business Bureau has set up give.org, which has information on charities and a place to file complaints.

Recent donors may want to take this route. If you do file a complaint, my advice would be not to rant or carry on too much, i.e. address your complaint in a reasonable and businesslike manner. F6 is a great place to vent, but professional organizations are not going to go for all the uppercase shouts and certainly are going to look with suspicion on exaggerated claims. Just a suggestion of course. You're free to do as you wish!

Bests, Francesca
[ Give.org information ]

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 15:24:07 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Francesca ~)
Subject: This is cool! Good Job Francesca [nt]
Message:
[nt]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 13:41:25 (EDT)
From: gerry (This post is OT)
Email: None
To: All
Subject: I don't believe in ghosts I don't believe in gh
Message:
Looks like 'Dumb and Dumber' are at it again. I have to say this is a nice one, though.

it's amazing what two old drunks can do with a board and some string

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 14:07:12 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: gerry (This post is OT)
Subject: Not made with wood and string
Message:
More like papier mache and poster paint. Done on the living room floor, no doubt.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 11:38:15 (EDT)
From: Liz
Email: None
To: All
Subject: I really don’t get it….
Message:
Having been a premie and successfully slipped the net I really don’t understand why anyone would want to return.

My life has moved on to such an extent that it's inconceivable … Maharaji wouldn’t fit into my life any more than I would fit into his.

As a point of interest … I got sick a few years’ ago and remember wondering how I would react i.e. whether I would start wanting the security blanket of ‘belonging’ or ‘being saved’ and, as a result, buy my ticket to heaven ... given that’s what I presume people hope to do when they donate their money to ‘propagate this Knowledge’ (read: houses, planes and boats).

I’m happy to ay that the thought didn’t cross my mind … instead I decided to live as if it counted and fulfil a few of the dreams I had lost or forgotten along the way.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 18:14:05 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Liz
Subject: Bazza's excercising his democratic rights
Message:
Bazza is Bazza. He's doing OK. I don't think he wants to be put into any pigeon hole. Let's not forget that he is a person and not a premie or ex-premie. Only those people who want to put labels on themselves will do so.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 18:54:30 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: You're English, aren't you? [nt]
Message:
[nt]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 05:57:19 (EDT)
From: Liz
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: You're English, aren't you?
Message:
Oui
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 14:45:49 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Liz
Subject: I don't think anyone HAS returned
Message:
If you're talking about Bazza, Liz, you should know that he is, in my opinion, the same guy that posted as 'Rob' some time ago. Where you around then? If so, you'll remember Rob as a real game player. If he was Bazza, I don't trust anything he says.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 11:55:34 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: chris@hafey.com
To: Liz
Subject: Re: I really don?t get it?.
Message:
Having been a premie and successfully slipped the net I really don?t understand why anyone would want to return.

My life has moved on to such an extent that it's inconceivable ? Maharaji wouldn?t fit into my life any more than I would fit into his.

As a point of interest ? I got sick a few years? ago and remember wondering how I would react i.e. whether I would start wanting the security blanket of ?belonging? or ?being saved? and, as a result, buy my ticket to heaven ... given that?s what I presume people hope to do when they donate their money to ?propagate this Knowledge? (read: houses, planes and boats).

I?m happy to ay that the thought didn?t cross my mind ? instead I decided to live as if it counted and fulfil a few of the dreams I had lost or forgotten along the way.


---

Can't get the toothpaste back into the tube again. Maharaji
preyed on our innocence and youth. I guess it's possible to
have faith (in whatever) but it won't be in Balyogeshwar, that's
for sure.

I was at the point of atheism when I met Maharaji. I returned
to that point, as soon as I dropped his programming and trips.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 11:07:19 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com
To: All
Subject: Music help required (ot)
Message:
I found this wav file the other day:

Click here to hear it

Anyone know who it is singing? The voice sounds familiar. I love it. The file may take a minute to load but it's worth it.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 11:50:28 (EDT)
From: Liz
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Re: Music help required (ot)
Message:
Sixpence None The Richer ... Beneath the Moonlight
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 14:08:42 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Liz
Subject: Re: Music help required (ot)
Message:
Thanks. I've now had a look at some of their history thanks to your naming them. They were in our record charts with that song a while back.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 03:34:49 (EDT)
From: Liz
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Re: Music help required (ot)
Message:
Hmmm, I remember thinking the first time I heard it that it was such a beautiful song. Did they do an Album?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 04:54:00 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com
To: All
Subject: SC is a liar - if you're interested
Message:
SC wrote to me;

''Glen remembers you, so do lan, Alan, Mary and Bobbie

What deleted your memory files? Fear of remembering how blissfull happy you really were back then? Too bad , others can, and do, remember for you. If that ain't love then tell me what is!''

This is complete and utter bullshit. Glen Whittaker has never known me except for just one meeting with him when I was a freaked out ashram premie and I don't know who these other people are he claims to have brought out of the woodwork who know me. Also, if anyone truly remembers me from around 1972/3/4/5 onwards, they'll know that I was extremely unhappy and confused for most of the time. I was certainly never blissfully happy.

So here we have a premie called SC (and Mitch Ward) who is not just peddling the usual premie spiel but is actually a blantant liar who is just making up stories. I'd disregard his posts as complete bullshit, if I were you.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 15:38:30 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Re: NO SHIT SHERLOCK--hahahhahaha
Message:
You say:

I'd disregard his posts as complete bullshit, if I were you.

I say:

You don't say
---
Good one SirDave

I opened up another netscape window and I'm listening to that music

you linked me. Nice tunes on the next page as well. Easy listening and easy posting. It's a nice day. How are you doing?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 16:13:28 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: Re: NO SHIT SHERLOCK--hahahhahaha
Message:
Good and positive although some difficulties but then I knew I wasn't in for an easy time when I came here from planet Zog.

Today I heard from a dear friend who I had been worried about. She's giving birth in three weeks and I'm looking forward to it even though it's not mine. She's had a rough time lately. She used to be a porn star in Europe and then got settled down recently with an abusive guy who she's now just left. It's his baby.

She'll be needing some help from Uncle Dave.

I'm glad you like the sounds. I embedded one in a post on Lifes (sic) Great. I wonder what they'll make of it?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 17:02:41 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Re: NO SHIT SHERLOCK--hahahhahaha
Message:
I'm now listening to the Beverly HillBillies. This would be a good tune to make up a Malibu Rawats ballad.

Next thing ya know, BigHead's a Billionaire, kinfolks said, 'get out of here,' so they loaded up Mahatmas and moved to MI-A-MI, Beach that is,...okay so I'm little crazy today.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 18:09:39 (EDT)
From: not ready for prime time
Email: nrfpt@jsca.com
To: Deborah
Subject: Re: NO SHIT SHERLOCK--hahahhahaha
Message:
I'm now listening to the Beverly HillBillies. This would be a good tune to make up a Malibu Rawats ballad.

Next thing ya know, BigHead's a Billionaire, kinfolks said, 'get out of here,' so they loaded up Mahatmas and moved to MI-A-MI, Beach that is,...okay so I'm little crazy today.


---

Once was a story about a cult figure-head
A poor ashramie barely kept his family fed
And then one day he was fighting over food
Up from the ground come a bubbling crude
Nectar that is
Trust Fund Hippie's Gold
Swami Tea

First thing you know young Ji's a millionaire
Kinfolks said 'Ji! Give me half your share!'Said 'California is where Maya goes to feed'
So he hopped on a plane and indulged all his greed

Devotees
Lap of luxury
Fire hoses
Packed up his hoses and went to Miami
Squirted paint on premies who paid money to bend a knee
Kissin at his feet like some marxist commie creed
Waitin' forty five minutes in line just to pee
Old people
Met them on the bus
Asked me 'What the fuck?'

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Aug 16, 2001 at 05:24:41 (EDT)
From: nrfpt
Email: None
To: not ready for prime time
Subject: ballad of gruesome fraud mirage ji
Message:
Malibu Hill-Swamis

(The Ballad of Gruesome Fraud Mirage Ji)

Once was a story about a cult figure-head
A poor ashramie barely kept his family fed
And then one day he was fighting over food
Up from the ground come a bubbling crude

Nectar that is
Trust Fund Hippie's Gold
Swami Tea

First thing you know young Ji's a millionaire
Kinfolks said 'Ji! Give me half your share!'
Said 'California is where Maya goes to feed'
So he hopped on a plane and indulged in all his greed

Devotees
Lap of luxury
Fire hoses

Packed up his hoses and went to Miami
Squirted paint on premies who paid money to bend a knee
Kissin at his feet like some marxist commie creed
Waitin' forty five minutes in line there, just to pee

Old people
Met them on the bus
Asked me 'What the fuck?'

Now once in a while we'd see hans pal, durga ji
wadi, dayalata, or a glimpse of lotus feet
Rest of the time we'd be sitting there like a dope
Wondering if we'd a' done better sticking with the Pope

White robes
fish hat
collection baskets
holy wafers
ritual cannibalism
apostle's screed
holy wars

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 22:28:30 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: not ready for prime time
Subject: Great Post NRFPT [nt]
Message:
[nt]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 10:17:13 (EDT)
From: Gough Whitla
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: My son lied to you all
Message:
My son, who posts here as 'SC' lied to you all. I'd like to take this opportunity to apologise to forum members and guests. My son wrongly asserted that a Mr D Simpkiss (aka 'Sir Dave') did enjoy certain moments and periods of bliss and contentment during the early 1970's. SC stated thus, on a public forum, without any staturatory declarations or affidavits from witnesses or bystanders to the events he claimed knowledge of. Also, he posted that Mr Simpkiss was fondly remembered by those that had seen and heard him in the aforementioned period. I would like to, without reservation, offer my humblest apologies and offer any assistance I can to rectify the suffering and indignity that has been caused to Mr Simpkiss, his friends, family and work associates.

I will be having a stiff whisk....word with David about this.

interremoniously yours,
Gough Whitla

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 11:47:24 (EDT)
From: Jazz police
Email: None
To: Gough Whitla
Subject: Ask David W/Sc how 'cerise' is. NT
Message:
zz
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 09:29:18 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: There's only one way to shun them, Dave
Message:
There is only one way to shun anyone online -- do not acknowledge
them, no matter what you're thinking and feeling. I don't care
how hard they jerk your chain -- if you do not acknowledge them,
they have no real power.
Everything else encourages them.

a0aji

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 10:21:16 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: a0aji
Subject: Re: There's only one way to shun them, Dave
Message:
I agree up to a point but if they show themselves to be lying bullshitters, it pays to point it out to people. And don't forget, we can pull their chains too.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 05:39:11 (EDT)
From: Mitch Ward
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: A warning
Message:
If you continue to ascertain that I am 'SC' then I will contact Hotmail Management about a review of this Hotboard.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 05:44:53 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Mitch Ward
Subject: You're welcome to
Message:
The IP addresses were identical. The same internet session from the same computer. Perhaps SC was just standing over your shoulder and jumped into your seat when you left to go to the toilet. Perhaps.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 06:00:38 (EDT)
From: Mitch Ward
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: You are clutching at straws my friend
Message:
Rather unsuccessfully I might add.

There are 34 Macintosh computers in the office where I work. 22 of them are online 13 hours a day. I saw SC attempt to explain to you that half of Australia uses the same isp. You didn't listen. You think the internet is broken up into 'sessions'. You must be living in a land of 'pretend' circumstances. Just like you pretend that you never ever had a good time with K and M in the 1970's.
Are you pretending you were invisible during that period? No of course you weren't.
It is you who are lying, and the saddest thing of all is that you are lying to youself. No-one else could care less about your personal conscience, whether it rests or whether it doesn't rest.

Don't you realise that?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 10:38:05 (EDT)
From: Steve
Email: None
To: Mitch Ward
Subject: Warning :the brown acid is not...
Message:
particularly good. Please attend the medical tent for assistance.

Don't split the personality up too much, too frequently on the same internet session : SC David W, Cerise , Mitch, Marolyn Kintyre etc... This has often proven perilous as the original face can be lost, not to mention any credibility .

Take care mate

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 07:43:17 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com
To: Mitch Ward
Subject: You're a complete bullshit artist
Message:
You have already proven that you're a complete bullshitter. If any of these so called people know me from the past they can email me at the above address and identify themselves, or they can post here. But you're making it up and none of them know me (or even exist) and the only one who exists is Glen Whittaker and I know he has only spoken with me personally once, so I won't expect any emails.

You're a complete bullshit artist SC/Mitch Ward.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 10:21:54 (EDT)
From: Gough Whitla
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: That is quite and unequivacally correct
Message:
and it brings immeasurable shame upon our family.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 01:57:49 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: All
Subject: On spiritual entrepreneurs
Message:
Just found this very interesting analysis, far from our emotional ones.

...........

McKean has meticulously researched two major religious bodies: Swami
Satyamitranand's Bharat Mata temple in Hardwar and the Divine Life Society
(DLS) founded by Swami Sivananda in Rishikesh. Besides, she has critically
examined two lesser known institutions: the Gayatri Parivar started by the
late Acharya Shri Rim Sharma and the Manav Utthan Seva Samiti headed by
Satpal Rawat. Mackean's theis is that Hindu gurus have commodified
spiritualism and used it as an instrument of domination. She posits a
mutually beneficial relationship between spirituality and consumer capitalism
in India and argues that the former mystifies 'the social relations involved
in the production, circulation and consumption of commodities' and creates
'individual and group identities that secure the dominance of ruling class
groups.'

...........
[ Spiritual entrepreneurs ]

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 12:12:50 (EDT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Re: On spiritual entrepreneurs
Message:
Thanks J-M. For the quick reader, here are some excerpts from the review. -RR

Gurus of all hues, in McKean's view, are anything but spiritual. She argues that spirituality has become a 'divine enterprise', one that not only provides huge profits but also confers on spiritual entrepreneurs staggering political and social clout, the like of which even influential people like sports icons, film stars, politicians, business magnates and so on can barely dream of. Pedlars of spirituality, do not have to worry about mundane matters that beset ordinary entrepreneurs, problems, for instance, about initial investments, or about whether their enterprises will succeed or not. All they need is a simplistic, well-rounded ideology that reinforces the existing social order, promotes the interests of the elites in business and politics and promises rewards in the future for the layperson.

Devout Hindus are apt to dismiss such a characterisation of spirituality as Marxian nonsense. The shenanigans of charlatans, their spurious teachings, and the unedifying careers of the likes of Chandraswami, Rajneesh and so on, they think, are fringe phenomena. The truly original contribution of McKean lies in that she has demonstrated that far from being a peripheral phenomenon, the exploitation of Hinduism for securing one's socio-economic and political ends is a ubiquitous feature, an inalienable part of all institutions that claim to promote Hinduism.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 11:14:57 (EDT)
From: Gregg
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: theo-politics
Message:
This fits in with religion's long affiliation with the machinations of political power (e.g. the Catholics in Europe). It makes perfect sense, of course. Cults like DLM/EV are short-lived; they depend on the health of the Leader and good information control (controlling what devotees hear, that is).

But with larger and more culturally entrenched religion, political/economic juice can ensure longer-term viability for dubious doctrines.

Sounds like a good book!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 09:21:49 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Nice find, JM
Message:
Here's a reader's comment from Amazon:

Through shrewd marketing and publicity, Hindu spiritual leaders can play powerful roles in contemporary India as businessmen and government officials. Focusing on the organizations and activities of Hindu ascetics and gurus, Lise McKean explores the complex interrelations among religion, the political economy of India, and global capitalism.
In this close look at the business of religion, McKean traces the ideological and organizational antecedents to the Hindu nationalist movement. The Indian state's increasing patronage of Hindu institutions makes competition for its support greater than ever. Using materials from guru's publications, the press, and extensive field research, McKean examines how participation by upper-caste ruling class groups in the Divine Life Society and other Hindu organizations further legitimates their own authority.

With a remarkable selection of photographs and advertisements showing icons of spirituality used to sell commodities from textiles to cement to comic books, McKean illustrates the pervasive presence of Hindu imagery in India's burgeoning market economy. She shows how gurus popularize Hindu nationalism through imagery such as the goddess, Mother India, and her martyred sons and daughters. --This text refers to the Hardcover edition.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index