Ex-Premie Forum 6 Archive
From: Jul 14, 2001 To: Aug 22, 2001 Page: 4 of: 5


Elizabeth -:- Did Jim Heller do this? -:- Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 22:56:14 (EDT)
__ salam -:- Re: Did Jim Heller do this? -:- Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 11:43:10 (EDT)
__ __ janet -:- ???salam??--what? -:- Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 12:43:57 (EDT)
__ Jim -:- I did it for her own good -- and for the universe -:- Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 23:23:04 (EDT)
__ __ a0aji -:- I did it to weild arbitrary power over another -:- Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 07:13:19 (EDT)
__ __ Pat:C) -:- Either an unpaid bill - or part of the Jihad? -:- Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 04:53:41 (EDT)
__ Aout Monserrat -:- Hilarity abounds! -:- Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 23:03:33 (EDT)
__ __ janet -:- Jim said that he would -:- Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 12:42:18 (EDT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- Janet -:- Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 13:42:44 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ janet -:- Re: Thanks Jim-appreciate it. accepted. -:- Tues, Aug 21, 2001 at 17:38:34 (EDT)

Gregg -:- Religion Explained -:- Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 22:30:59 (EDT)
__ Jerry -:- Re: Religion Explained -:- Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 10:40:26 (EDT)
__ __ Gregg -:- Religion Explained Away -:- Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 14:55:00 (EDT)
__ __ Jerry -:- Oops, typo! -:- Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 10:42:53 (EDT)

BeenThereDoneThat -:- Cosmic experiences anyone? -:- Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 21:06:23 (EDT)
__ Jethro -:- Re: Cosmic experiences anyone? -:- Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 21:53:32 (EDT)
__ Dermot -:- A simple test... -:- Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 12:47:14 (EDT)
__ Liz -:- The Power of Numbers -:- Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 11:02:57 (EDT)
__ Bobo -:- Re: Cosmic experiences anyone? -:- Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 08:22:26 (EDT)
__ Pat:C) -:- Re: Cosmic experiences anyone? - plenty -:- Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 06:18:54 (EDT)
__ Richard -:- Re: Cosmic experiences anyone?? -:- Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 22:28:49 (EDT)
__ __ suchabanana -:- cosmic:' I grabbed a banana (offering)' -:- Tues, Aug 21, 2001 at 02:45:43 (EDT)
__ __ Jerry -:- Re: Cosmic experiences anyone? -:- Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 22:29:27 (EDT)
__ __ RichMandrake -:- Darshan Experiences..Aye..there's the Rub.. -:- Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 00:50:20 (EDT)
__ __ __ Bobo -:- Re: Darshan Experiences..Aye..there's the Rub.. -:- Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 08:27:05 (EDT)
__ __ __ Richard -:- Re: Darshan Experiences..Aye..there's the Rub.. -:- Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 01:35:51 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ RichMandrake -:- Placebo Effect..Doesnt Explain it All... -:- Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 09:58:22 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Steve -:- Re: Placebo Effect..Doesnt Explain it All... -:- Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 12:55:53 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Of course you're still grappling -:- Dermott, people get high off M and -:- Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 10:53:13 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Dermot -:- Excuse me Mr anonymous -:- Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 12:18:34 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Bobo -:- Re: Darshan Experiences..Aye..there's the Rub.. -:- Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 08:29:59 (EDT)
__ Gregg -:- Re: Cosmic experiences anyone? -:- Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 22:27:08 (EDT)
__ __ Bobo -:- Re: Cosmic experiences anyone? -:- Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 08:33:33 (EDT)

Jim -:- I'm writing this post (aren't I?) -:- Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 21:04:59 (EDT)
__ suchabanana -:- buzzy says,'I want a banana'! hahaha -:- Tues, Aug 21, 2001 at 02:37:36 (EDT)
__ Francesca ~) -:- Buzzy wasn't ... -:- Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 21:15:59 (EDT)
__ __ Bobo -:- Re: Buzzy wasn't ... -:- Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 08:43:30 (EDT)
__ __ Ninkyzin -:- Re: Buzzy wasn't ... -:- Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 21:45:00 (EDT)

McGruff...yep!! -:- Lookie here! Can't Block me!! -:- Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 16:02:30 (EDT)
__ Jim -:- This passes for deep wisdom in your cult, no? -:- Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 18:22:29 (EDT)
__ Annie -:- Re: Lookie here! Can't Block me!! -:- Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 17:09:38 (EDT)
__ David -:- No, YOU threatened Maharaji, McGruff -:- Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 16:33:40 (EDT)

BeenThereDoneThat -:- Wondering -:- Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 14:10:07 (EDT)
__ Richard -:- Re: Wondering -:- Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 17:07:30 (EDT)
__ __ Mr. Mind -:- I wonder how many in that... -:- Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 06:18:19 (EDT)
__ __ Sir Dave -:- Ha ha ha -:- Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 17:12:49 (EDT)
__ Pat:C) -:- Re: Wondering -:- Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 14:48:35 (EDT)
__ __ Deborah -:- Re: Not Wondering -:- Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 19:26:28 (EDT)

And On Anand Ji -:- 2001: A Spacey-Premie Odyssey -:- Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 09:46:55 (EDT)
__ Loaf -:- Re: 2001: A Spacey-Premie Odyssey -:- Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 13:14:51 (EDT)
__ __ Ji Ma I Want To Go Home -:- King Lear jets! [nt] -:- Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 14:59:28 (EDT)

Annie -:- Is Sir Dave on-line?? -:- Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 09:00:58 (EDT)
__ Sir Dave -:- I am now -:- Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 16:08:39 (EDT)

Silvia -:- Maharaji's contradictions -:- Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 08:33:34 (EDT)
__ Silvia -:- You are Complete NT -:- Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 20:37:57 (EDT)
__ __ Silvia -:- Versus -:- Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 20:38:40 (EDT)
__ __ __ Silvia -:- The Missing Piece -:- Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 20:46:48 (EDT)

Who remembers Jim Kweskin and -:- the Jugband? He joined a cult -:- Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 06:50:17 (EDT)
__ Francesca :C) -:- Remember quite well -:- Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 14:25:03 (EDT)
__ __ Mr. Mind -:- I remember the Fugs too [nt] -:- Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 16:10:04 (EDT)
__ __ __ such -:- Tuli Kupferberg of da Fugs -:- Tues, Aug 21, 2001 at 02:26:14 (EDT)
__ __ Ulf -:- Holy Modal Roundersl -:- Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 15:47:17 (EDT)
__ __ Richard -:- Re: Remember quite well -:- Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 15:08:43 (EDT)
__ __ __ Francesca :C) -:- Washington at Valley Forge ... -:- Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 16:51:29 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Richard -:- Relax Your Mind (OT) -:- Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 17:17:52 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Francesca :C) -:- Re: Relax Your Mind (OT) -:- Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 17:57:00 (EDT)

flatulent singh rawat -:- How it really started -:- Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 00:27:45 (EDT)

Silvia -:- Right to believe -:- Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 21:20:24 (EDT)
__ Miss Triss Cleo -:- Re: Right to believe -:- Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 21:55:51 (EDT)

Francesca -:- Is the war over or are they ... -:- Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 20:06:11 (EDT)
__ Pat:C) -:- No - sharpening their swords -:- Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 04:56:44 (EDT)
__ Sir Dave -:- Re: Is the war over or are they ... -:- Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 22:09:24 (EDT)
__ __ Mitch Ward -:- Correction -:- Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 11:02:38 (EDT)
__ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Ha ha, that's funny -:- Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 16:15:05 (EDT)
__ __ __ David 2 -:- Re: Correction -:- Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 14:31:38 (EDT)
__ __ Francesca :C) -:- RIGHT ON and thanks for the info! [nt] -:- Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 00:46:32 (EDT)
__ Bin Liner -:- Sharpening their swords for sure... -:- Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 21:16:59 (EDT)
__ __ Francesca :C) -:- beat their swords into stock market shares -:- Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 21:31:09 (EDT)
__ __ __ Zelda -:- Seems hoky that and 'agency' would give warning [nt] -:- Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 00:33:52 (EDT)
__ __ __ salam -:- Re: beat their swords into stock market shares -:- Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 22:02:25 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- I sure wish this was a joke, Salam -:- Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 04:33:41 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Francesca :C) -:- And you've got my solidarity too ... -:- Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 14:33:16 (EDT)

a0aji -:- Are Premies Welcome Here? M Created the Schism -:- Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 18:11:38 (EDT)
__ AJW -:- Attention craving flotsam and jestom. -:- Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 06:07:48 (EDT)
__ __ a0aji -:- Nice post, Anth! -:- Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 08:35:55 (EDT)
__ __ AJW -:- 12' version of above post. -:- Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 06:30:59 (EDT)
__ Francesca :C) -:- It depends -:- Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 19:56:43 (EDT)
__ __ a0aji -:- Re: It depends -:- Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 20:19:17 (EDT)
__ JHB -:- It's just conversation and information -:- Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 19:19:35 (EDT)
__ Silvia -:- Premies shouldn't be welcome -:- Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 18:25:42 (EDT)
__ a0aji -:- Are You Secretly Trying To Save The Premies? -:- Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 18:21:21 (EDT)
__ __ AJW -:- It's no secret a0aji -:- Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 06:43:35 (EDT)
__ __ Annie -:- AND YES!! -:- Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 18:53:20 (EDT)
__ __ __ a0aji -:- Bhole Ji == deer-in-the-headlights look -:- Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 22:15:26 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ AJW -:- The Other Side. -:- Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 07:05:24 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ a0aji -:- Re: The Other Side. -:- Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 08:56:42 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ a0aji -:- Re: The Other Side. -:- Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 09:03:56 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ annie -:- Re: Bhole Ji == deer-in-the-headlights look -:- Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 06:53:38 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Thanks, aOaji, for putting the mindfuck in -:- Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 04:45:31 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ BTDT -:- Re: Thanks, aOaji, for putting the mindfuck in -:- Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 20:55:24 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Francesca :C) -:- Mata Ji was Shri Hans 'consort' -:- Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 21:13:04 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Polygamy is legal In India -:- Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 05:06:46 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jethro -:- Re: hansji -:- Tues, Aug 21, 2001 at 04:13:12 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ BTDT -:- Re: Polygamy is legal In India -:- Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 13:55:03 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ BTDT -:- Re: Polygamy is legal In India -:- Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 13:55:02 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- The soap opera gets better, Been -:- Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 14:18:32 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ BTDT -:- Re: The soap opera gets better, Been -:- Tues, Aug 21, 2001 at 00:57:06 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ a0aji -:- Bhole Ji == deer-in-the-headlights look [nt] -:- Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 22:26:39 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ a0aji -:- Bhole Ji == deer-in-the-headlights look [nt] -:- Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 22:23:29 (EDT)
__ __ __ Silvia -:- Premie syndrome -:- Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 21:03:26 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Annie -:- Re: Premie syndrome -:- Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 07:18:33 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Silvia -:- Re: Premie syndrome -:- Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 08:37:26 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Annie -:- Just out! -:- Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 08:49:59 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ a0aji -:- Re: Just out! -:- Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 09:12:54 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ annie -:- Re: Just out! -:- Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 09:21:57 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ a0aji -:- Re: Just out! -:- Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 09:31:50 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ annie -:- Re: Just out! -:- Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 09:37:10 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Annie -:- I'm off now -:- Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 09:40:58 (EDT)
__ __ __ Deborah -:- Re: AND YES!! -:- Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 19:26:24 (EDT)
__ __ Deborah -:- question has inherent flaws -:- Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 18:50:54 (EDT)
__ __ __ a0aji -:- nice post deborah [nt] -:- Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 19:11:07 (EDT)
__ __ annie -:- such bitterness it seems!! -:- Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 18:47:49 (EDT)
__ __ Silvia -:- I want to bring him down -:- Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 18:26:56 (EDT)

Annie -:- the'lord of the universe stuff' -:- Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 15:04:39 (EDT)
__ Joe -:- It isn't even close -:- Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 17:24:10 (EDT)
__ __ annie -:- Re: It isn't even close -:- Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 18:38:03 (EDT)
__ __ __ Joe -:- Suggestion -:- Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 21:14:09 (EDT)
__ swami j. suchabanana -:- God/savior: facts vs. revisionism -:- Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 16:05:21 (EDT)
__ JHB -:- Have a look here -:- Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 15:52:13 (EDT)
__ BeenThereDoneThat -:- Re: the'lord of the universe stuff' -:- Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 15:13:23 (EDT)
__ __ BeenThereDoneThat -:- Re: the'lord of the universe stuff' -:- Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 15:55:33 (EDT)
__ __ __ ggg -:- Blimey . . . -:- Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 16:59:23 (EDT)
__ __ __ such -:- just, don't hold your breath! -:- Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 16:11:25 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ BTDT -:- Re: just, don't hold your breath! -:- Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 19:01:28 (EDT)

AJW -:- R2 are you there? Over. -:- Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 12:56:29 (EDT)

la-ex -:- Internet explorer script error...? -:- Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 11:32:19 (EDT)
__ salam -:- Re: Internet explorer script error...? -:- Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 22:09:50 (EDT)
__ JHB -:- Re: Internet explorer script error...? -:- Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 14:59:09 (EDT)
__ dv -:- Me too (nt) -:- Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 13:38:58 (EDT)
__ Loaf -:- me too ! [nt] -:- Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 12:20:43 (EDT)
__ Mr. Mind -:- Re: Internet explorer script error...? -:- Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 12:18:13 (EDT)
__ __ a0aji -:- Re: Internet explorer script error...? -:- Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 13:08:52 (EDT)


Date: Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 22:56:14 (EDT)
From: Elizabeth
Email: Cheshirecat_90291@yahoo.com
To: All
Subject: Did Jim Heller do this?
Message:
My name is Elizabeth and I am a friend of Janet's.On Friday the 17th,she logged on to the net,only to be informed that she had been TOSed.This has upset her greatly as she has been unable to acertain as to why.Shedid not get a decent response from the admin of webtv butwe smell a rat big time!!Jim Heller i direct this next part to you.Sir, I do not know you but if you got Janet banned from webtv because you told the powers that be that Janet was spamming on you your misson was accomplished.it is not as easy for her to come back as it would be for you.she does not own a pc and does not have acess to say a ol or netscape.dhe has a hard time witha mouse and finaces are such that she cannot afford her own computer due to her diability.Mr Heller this may be hard for uou tofathom but Janet likes you and admires you.please i beg of you call and have her allowed back here.thank you for your time mr.heller-elizabeth
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 11:43:10 (EDT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: Elizabeth
Subject: Re: Did Jim Heller do this?
Message:
[nt]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 12:43:57 (EDT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: salam
Subject: ???salam??--what?
Message:
you spaced. come again??
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 23:23:04 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Elizabeth
Subject: I did it for her own good -- and for the universe
Message:
No, seriously, I did no such thing. Wouldn't dream of it.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 07:13:19 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: and_on_anand@yahoo.com
To: Jim
Subject: I did it to weild arbitrary power over another
Message:
Just kidding, also.

Is this Elizabeth-like person quite sure Janet was TOS'd? WebTV can get into certain kinds of trouble, I believe, if *they* weild 'power' arbitrarily.

E - Tell Janet she can pick up a cheap computer in the newspaper for about a hundred and fifty dollars or less, and get an ISP 'shell' account for about $20 a month, if WebTV has truly kicked her off their service. eBay.com also carries plenty of older laptops in that price range ('sold' price when auction closes). Two hundred dollars buys a lot of laptop there these days.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 04:53:41 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Either an unpaid bill - or part of the Jihad?
Message:
I hope the latter.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 23:03:33 (EDT)
From: Aout Monserrat
Email: None
To: Elizabeth
Subject: Hilarity abounds!
Message:
Jim would never do anything like that, he's not threatened by Janet's psychobabble any more than the rest of us.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 12:42:18 (EDT)
From: janet
Email: ai_Choix@yahoo.com
To: Aout Monserrat
Subject: Jim said that he would
Message:
In the aftermath of the blowup of forum 5, I had reason to send off a group mailing to everyone on my forum 5 address list with info i was certain everyone would want to see. JIm's name was on that list and I did not stop and delete it before sending.

Jim was touchy and reactive in those days and told me to quit writing to him. I was taught to respond to correspondence, no matter how impolite it might be, for to fail to reply is ruder still, and I don't feel right adding to the increasing abusiveness in the world.
So I did reply to his subsequent emails, as simply and as honestly as i could.

In the course of those exchanges, Jim indeed threatened to report me to my ISP for sending him unwanted email. I finally found a diplomatic way, I hoped, to mollify him of the situation by assuring him in one last response that I was trained to reply to mail as a matter of course, that not to do so was impolite, so I was compelled to respond for as long as he wrote. However, If he stopped, I could stop.
this was no ploy on my part. This is how I was raised to behave and understand manners.
It seemed to provide him the much sought respite he wanted.

I was relieved as well, that it had found a stopping point.

I don't hate Jim. I do admire him for the most part, and the forum is paler without him. He has his obvious shortcomings, but I take him as he comes, warts and all.

We have to. If you start eliminating people for being flawed, pretty soon there are no people left in the world at all, good enough for you to interact with, and life gets real bare and sparse and lonesome. This is q a truth I absorbed a long time ago.
I notice Jim has been pointedly ignoring me ever since forum 5 disappeared and I sent him the last email.


I also want to remind him that while there was a choice, and both forum5 and this one existed during the transition, Jim was banned on f5 and would go to f6 and use it as a bully ulpit from which to accuse me in absentia of being a coward and of being unwilling to face him. in reality, i was thinking no such thing. I was unaware that he wanted me to come over and speak to him, and remained at f5 out of habit and nothing more. he couldnt come to f5 and i had not changed habit to go anywhere else. and i wouldnt have changed, had not f5 disappeared completely. I'm always the last to leave anyplace. I linger. Pat would say its Taurus nature not to want to change.


But Jim did indeed threaten me with getting me TOS'd, in the aftermath of f5, so I have a genuine basis for questionng the possibility.


It was definitely not unpaid bills. I am paid to the minute. That much they did tell me.


Jim, if you lodged complaint with my ISP, I ask you kindly to rethink your act. I am PC learning disabled. I have been for 30 years. I can NOT operate them, nor a MAC. I have approached and tried for years. For some reason, i freeze and cannot proceed. I cannot operate a mouse either. so even were you to give me one ( and people have),it is useless.
this being the truth, i am helpless. its webtv or nothing. i am not in the position of someone who could change ISP's and come back on. i can't just cancel AOL and get Earthlink, like someone else would. If you sent a complaint to webtv abut me, and it became one of the three strikes against me that leads to TOS cancellation, I would ask you to reconsider. Did you want to deny me from the internet forever? or did you simply want me to leave you alone?
If it's the latter, I can give you that. If it's the former, .....
when the joke wears off,please , think again, about whether you would actually want to do that to somebody forever. Power needs to be used very thoughtfully. If I were a malicious hacker, or a criminal, or dangerous to society or cyberspace, perhaps such a drastic move would be right.
But I am none of the above.


In fact, it was you, Jim, who called me personally, right after I first posted on f5, to solicit where i was at with maharaji and the cult and my stance on everything. No one else ever made such a personal outreach to me, to let me know anyone actually cared how I was with it all. That, more than anything, jarred me out of my cult fog and made me begin seriously looking at myself and what the cult had made of me, and got me underway to unloadng years of fucked up thinking and clinging and hoping for a day that was never going to come.
Therefore, the state of things today is all the more regrettable.Jim got me thinking and fighting and sharpened my wits again, and now he shuns me for the very aspects of myself he was instrumental in getting working again. How bizarre.

Jim if you had any part in my ISP doing this to me, reconsider. If you did, and you see it differently now, please entertain the request i make of you to recontact them and rescind your original complaint, in light of developments since.


I can't linger here long today.
following upon a birthday weekend ruined by this blackout discovery friday, I though things couldnt possibly get any worse.\


they did.

last night I learned that my longtime friend drank deeply from a water bottle at the beach, that was being passed around the drum circle, a bottle that he didnt know was laced with GHB. He became stuporous, incoherent, unable to make his companions understand what was the matter, then went into retching convulsions, unconscious, for half an hour before 911 came to take him away to an ER.
Shortly after he was driven off, our next friend started to show the signs,and she was ambulanced away too.
When our third friend had seen them off and arrived home with his little 3 year old son, he began to evidence vomiting and drowsiness and twitching if he blipped out momentarily. i called poison control and asked what to do, and they said we couldnt treat it at home, he needed 911. He dopily insisted he was 'fine', but i called them nonetheless for him. so they came and checked him over and decided to allow him to stay home, but they told me to call them back if he deteriorated.
we still had not located our first friend. none of the local ER's had him listed as brought in.
one of the paramedics recognized our third friend from the calls to the beach, and he was able to tell us where they took our first friend. yet another call to that ER produced no word of their having him there. Some time later, it occurred to me that he might have been taken in unidentified as a 'John Doe', and called back to pose that question. The answer was affirmative. So I ID'd him to the staff and told them he had a record there from 2 months earlier, when he shot himself in the ribs with a power nail gun on a job. That set them on a course to follow in treating him.
Hours later we learned they were moving him to the ICU and he was going on a respiratior because he had reached respiratory failure by the time he had been brought in, and had been in a coma for 5 hours.
Still later calls in the wee hours revealed that he had begun to revive in the ICU, but had come out of his come in a state of violence and wild fighting. They had to put him into 4 point restraints and sedate him out again in order to keep the treatment going. Calls this morning confirm that as the continuing state of things.

So all the energy I had been waiting to put into trying to learn why I was TOS'd, this morning, now is diverted aside, with the newer worry about what the outcome will be with my friend in ICU.
The girl was released to come home to us late last night.

If anybody has any advice, words of hope, technical know-how, or anything that bears on either of these two vast troubles, I would receive them with thanks.
reply here or email me privately at

Jai_Choix@yahoo.com

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 13:42:44 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Janet
Message:
Our bad history, if you want to call it that, started in a few disgreements we had about matters spiritual and cosmic. You vouched for things as certainties which I found too fantastic for even reasonable speculation, let alone belief, even of the qualified variety. We never resolved those disputes because you generally dropped out of the conversations. Then, at various times when I was accused of being a 'bully' you jumped on the bandwagon. Whatever. You also came out swinging once or twice on the other side. Like I say, whatever. Following that, you started to tell me how to post, how to express myself, making a complete fool of yourself in the process, if you ask me. You definitely angered me immensely, I won't deny it, with your patronizing, unsolicited and, in my opinion, wrong advice. Several people called you on it, not just me, but, again, you clammed up.

The next run-in we had was over 'Forum Five: The Final Conflict'. Again, you wrote some outlandish shit about me including, of all things, a description of a dream (nightmare?) you had wherein I tried to rape you, of all things. (Oy veh!) Then, when I was banned for 'harrassing' Brian and Katie about the whole quesiton of EPO ownership (and thank God, they're gone! Brian's commisseration with Glasser at not just my expense but all of ours being the last straw), you wrote me a couple of emails which made your earlier patronizing seem like a warm-up exercise. Here's a sample:

sorry-- you aren't on any list. and trying to call me a freak is an avoidance tactic to resist looking directly at what you are well aware that you did. it's only yourself you are soiling.
there IS a cleansing, if you wish to accept it. it's called having a
conscience and heeding it. the louder a ruckus you keep on generating, the longer you are putting it off. there's no point in running. you can't run from your own self. you have no opponent here. only your own nature. you are your enemy, not anyone out here. we're all just watching and waiting for you to realize it.
there's the bath, here's your towel. stay filthy or get clean. only you can make the choice. actually, you are on a list. but it's not a mailing list, by any means. how's the food in jail?

Again, for the record, I'm completely proud the stand I took with respect to Brian and Katie. EPO was not theirs much as Brian chose to treat it that way. They were both more of a detriment to its purpose and function, at least managing it the way they did, at least in my opinion. Thus, you can imagine how receptive I was to your comments. Thanks anyway.

This was when I was telling you to simply leave me alone and to quit harrassing me or I WOULD complain. You then replied that you'd only leave me on your group emails for non-personal matters. I didn't reply but shrugged 'whatever' to myself again.

Again, I did not report you to anyone or anything, as I already said. But can't you find out from your server who, if anyone, did? Surely they've got some sort of process like that. Anyway, it wasn't me. Hope you can get it sorted soon so that you can continue to post as you wish, regardless of whether or not I agree with what you're saying. I've never thought otherwise, by the way.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Aug 21, 2001 at 17:38:34 (EDT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Thanks Jim-appreciate it. accepted.
Message:
no word yet but hoping to get back on soon. wish me luck.
argument is exciting.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 22:30:59 (EDT)
From: Gregg
Email: binduesque@yahoo.com
To: All
Subject: Religion Explained
Message:
Has anyone else read this book? ('Religion Explained')

I read it in July, on an island in Maine, and felt it almost lived up to its presumptuous title.

Religion from an evolutionary/cognitive psychology POV.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 10:40:26 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Gregg
Subject: Re: Religion Explained
Message:
Hi Gregg,

I picked up that book and thumb through it every now and then. What struck me about it is the sheer volume of different types of religions there are in this world. Also what I found interesting is how he discredits the standard explanations for why religion is so popular, such as it helps alleviate anxiety, establishes conformity in society to help it run better, explains existence, etc. But I haven't got to the part where he provides HIS explanation for why religion exists. Care to share it in a nutshell now that you've read the book? It's an interesting topic. And yes, you're right, it is a presumptuous title. There's a few of them out there these days. One of them is Dennis Dennett's book 'Consciousness Explained' who some say should have bee titled 'Consciousness Explained Away'. What do you think, should Boyer's book be titled similarly 'Religion Explained Away' or do you think the author really has something?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 14:55:00 (EDT)
From: Gregg
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Religion Explained Away
Message:
Hi Jerry,

Yeah, the book could be accurately titled 'Religion Explained Away.' It's a hard book to nutshell or thumb through, since the author's method is to slowly and methodically build a model for how we think and then to dovetail that into why we believe.

And ye, the multiplicity of religious belief systems is part of the charm of the book. Through most of our evolutionary history, apparently, we believed like tribal people today do: heavy on ghosts and ancestors and stuff; light on omnipotent creators and theology.

An example of his approach: In experiments where subjects watch two dots moving around the screen, there is a very particular moment at which the subjects perceive that one dot is 'chasing' another. We are thus predisposed to look for agency and intentionality even in cases where other explanations might be more accurate.

So we are naturally prone to imagine that someone/something is behind the events in our life. This is just one part of his argument. How we deal with corpses is another. We see them as dead objects, and as people...two different inference systems handling the data simultaneously. Belief in ghosts/ancestors he says are partly a result of this cognitive dissonance.

What he has to say about religious belief doesn't really apply too much to the kind of non-theistic mysticism that interests me, although I may just have a blind spot when it comes to my own beliefs. After all, as he points out, if you were to ask a tribal West African about why he 'believes' in ghosts, the question would seem to him as strange as if I were to ask you why you believe in computers.

The book is very good. Even if you don't go along with all of his conclusions, it's a great intro to contemporary thought about thought.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 10:42:53 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Oops, typo!
Message:
That would be Daniel Dennett, not Dennis (just in case Nigel' on board and corrects me again like he did when I got the two Susans confused, Blackmore and Blackwell).
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 21:06:23 (EDT)
From: BeenThereDoneThat
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Cosmic experiences anyone?
Message:
Okay, this might sound completely weird.....but I'd truly appreciate hearing from anyone that might reply. This is what I can't understand. When I received my first darshan and holy breath, at first I distinctly thought 'Is this a joke?' The scene in Florida with the two foot darshan line going under Maharaji's chair looked ridiculous. After going through, I came out the other end and the whole world just stopped. Literally. So I understood that it wasn't a joke. Did they spray us with acid or something?
These and a few other things that I never told anyone about were what made me believe my own eyes which inturn made me believe, yes indeed, M was Lord of the Universe. It wasn't that I imagined these things or wanted these things. After that, in all the darshans, nothing particularly noteworthy happened except at the Valentine's one in Denver. As I came through, all the instructors, etc that used to line the hall were looking at me and laughing. I can only surmise that M must have made some sort of joke/comment about me. Does anyone know if he did that sort of thing?

I'm understanding the contact high, power of suggestion, the theatrics of it all, I just wish I could come to grips with this stuff.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 21:53:32 (EDT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: BeenThereDoneThat
Subject: Re: Cosmic experiences anyone?
Message:
Hi BTDT,

I also had darshan experiences that I considered at the time to be exceptional. I now understand that those experiences were/are just me. I still have the same experiences but do not mystify them or associate them with prem rowatt. The sweetness of life is not exclusive to any group or cult. Sadly the members of such groups think they are exclusive and septrate themselves from the rest of humanity.(Those that have k and those that do not).

I found it useful to speak with devotees of other gurus other than m. They all report darshan experiences.

In fact you could try saibaba devotees, they report experiences and they don't even 'receive knowledge', they just have to accept sai as their Lord.

Regards
Jethro

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 12:47:14 (EDT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: BeenThereDoneThat
Subject: A simple test...
Message:
Ask the moonies at a huge wedding ceromony gathering if they get high. The answer will be they get totally out of their box.

Ask a whirling dervish if they get high .....same reply.

Ask a muslim going to mecca for the first time along with 2 million others....same answer.

Ask a mormon or J witness young evangelist ....travelling the world.....stopping everyone and anyone to spread the word ...if they get high.

Ask a hindu (from any sect) if they got high at kumbala recently , where multi millions attended the worlds largest ever religious gathering....same answer.

The question is not can a human being get high as a result of their devotion and dedication ....that's a given. The question, imo, is the high a result of something fundamentally TRUE, REAL , GENUINE (whatever) or is it more likely a subjective, psychological and physiological pay back for the subjective effort put in.

Incidentally , my mother in her 80's, still gets high from her devotion to Roman catholicism. She works down at the church every chance she gets. Attends mass every chance she gets.Of COURSE shes gonna get high from it.

Getting high is easy .....knowing what's real is not so easy....we are easily fooled.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 11:02:57 (EDT)
From: Liz
Email: None
To: BeenThereDoneThat
Subject: The Power of Numbers
Message:
I recently joined a meditation group because I decided it might be a nice thing to do again in a safe environment i.e. with no figure-head ... and what a surprise! The first time I closed my eyes to meditate I thought I was going to pass out. People apparently join meditation groups because the energy is 'much more' powerful with a group of people.

Take this a step further ... imagine 'thousands' of people in one place all focussed on one man ... wanting, believing, needing, praising, worshiping ... and then there's the emotional build-up to his arrival on stage and the collective surge of energy when he appears.

It's powerful and heady stuff. Take away the Guru and you don't have the focus. Re-direct that focus into self-empowerment and I believe you would have the same experience.

Isn't there a story in the bible about the parting of the waves ... an allegory perhaps, but an interesting concept re our potential as human beings.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 08:22:26 (EDT)
From: Bobo
Email: None
To: BeenThereDoneThat
Subject: Re: Cosmic experiences anyone?
Message:
Ever heard of the placebo effect?

placebo effect is part suggestion ,part you . the event becomes a symbolic door to your riches, normally hard to access

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 06:18:54 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: BeenThereDoneThat
Subject: Re: Cosmic experiences anyone? - plenty
Message:
They're all in the mind. How great was your expectation before you kissed the FEET? How great was the expectation of the guy behind you who got no cosmic experience? It's called wishful thinking.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 22:28:49 (EDT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: BeenThereDoneThat
Subject: Re: Cosmic experiences anyone??
Message:
Here's an excerpt from my yet-to-be published Journey.

Guru Puja in Montrose, Colorado and Holy Breath

The summer of 1972 I saw Guru Maharaj Ji for the first time. I signed up to be a photographer and when GMJ arrived on site, I kneeled a foot away from him while Bais and Mahatmas sang arti. I kneeled because when I approached him my legs went to jello. There was a tremendous reverence being displayed and I was overwhelmed.

The big event was something called darshan where the devotee would pass by GMJ and bow down. This seemed perfectly natural and in fact desirable thing to do after reading so much about Eastern Guru-Devotee protocol. It truly was a scene of dramatic and scriptural heavy-osity. A very beautiful setting and incredible feeling. You were told by the traditional Mahatmas that one always brought an offering when approaching the Guru so I got that together and got in line. We were also told that you could ask for a special once-in-a-lifetime blessing called Holy Breath by cupping your right hand to your right ear. When it was my turn I bowed down but forgot to ask for Holy Breath. Later at lunch I got so agitated by not doing it right that I grabbed a banana (offering) and ran back to get in line. This time when I bowed down, my head went between GMJ's feet and a bolt of lightening shot through my head. It was as if I was Frankenstein's monster and GMJ's feet were the electrodes. I came up and cupped my hand to my right ear, GMJ sort of cupped his hand to his mouth and blew towards my ear saying 'OK'. What happened next is profound and intrigues me to this day. Wind roared in my ear, I pressed my hands together at my chest, 'flew' way up above the proceedings and was surrounded by white light and the sound of angels singing. I swear this happened. A few moments later, I was back on the path leading down the hill and a WPC brother was standing there nodding and grinning. The experience I've described contributed to me living in the ashram in Denver for 3 years (1973 - 1976) and practicing K for fourteen years.

>>>>>>>

Acid flashback? Shaktiput? Needy pschological projections? I'm still wondering what happened.

Richard

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Aug 21, 2001 at 02:45:43 (EDT)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: cosmic:' I grabbed a banana (offering)'
Message:
[nt]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 22:29:27 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Re: Cosmic experiences anyone?
Message:
I think it's just a matter of the evolution of the brain, the way it manifests 'reality'. If the neurons are tickled in just such a way, yeah, you can go flying in heaven with angels. Just look what drugs can cause us to experience. And what are drugs but chemical manipulation of the brain, an emulation of neurotransmitters working double, even triple time and beyond. I think the Hindus just came up with a great way of inducing such experiences without drugs. It's called yoga. In Maharaji's case, bhakti yoga. And yeah, Pat C is right, Hindus aren't the only ones who came up with a means of inducing spiritual bliss. Every culture in the world has.

Anybody who is really curious about their 'cosmic experiences' needs to study themselves in the context of evolution and how the brain evolved to create the human experience as we know it today. Otherwise, you're only left with superstitious imaginings.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 00:50:20 (EDT)
From: RichMandrake
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Darshan Experiences..Aye..there's the Rub..
Message:
This is the Crux of my Ongoing dilemma about Mr. Rawat

The Testimony of ex-premies who have been close to the Offstage Maharaji is Consistent, Credible, and Convincing. It Paints a very unflattering picture of our former Lord...But HOW Can Such a Flawed Human Being have Been a Catalyst for Some Pretty Incredible...even Cosmic Darshan Experiences????...

The Desire for Experience..coupled with the Belief that Maharaji is/may be... the Lord...and the Group Energy Generated from all of us Focusing on Maha/Rawat as the Lord God...can Explain alot...but experiences like yours...and others when they have not conciously held any preconceived expectation....are hard to explain...

My Best Explanation is that Maha/Rawat...Does/Has Had Some Realization..and The Focus of Our Devotion On Him did make him a focal point for experience...Thus a Catalyst for some Very Incredible Experiences..

This, however, is not an entirely satisfactory explanation...and I am open to anyone who can give me a more complete answer...Thanks...

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 08:27:05 (EDT)
From: Bobo
Email: None
To: RichMandrake
Subject: Re: Darshan Experiences..Aye..there's the Rub..
Message:
Go to a dolphin show with the same reverence. The experience will blow your socks off!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 01:35:51 (EDT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: RichMandrake
Subject: Re: Darshan Experiences..Aye..there's the Rub..
Message:
Rich,
I more or less go along with your idea that early 70's GMJ was a conduit / catalyst / focus for some pretty amazing energy. He was trained from birth to expect, handle and be comfortable with that much power. But he became corrupted by the overwhelming adulation and material gain and was no longer able to hold onto the power. In the 'bigning' there was an intensity and purpose on GMJ's part mated with our dedication that created some magic but was eventually squandered. Many current PWK's that were around then, cling to those early experiences as proof that M is someone worthy of their devotion. But M fiddles while EV burns.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 09:58:22 (EDT)
From: RichMandrake
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Placebo Effect..Doesnt Explain it All...
Message:
Richard

Thank you...You concisely state what is probably most of what generated our Experience. I had several experiences similar to your 'Montrose Experience' myself. It was these EXPERIENCES..that convinced me that I had to swallow the 'Guru is Greater than God/Lord of the Universe' paradigm that Maharaji was feeding us at the time.
It was this..the Lord is here and you have to give Everything to him..paradigm...which was SO Destructive to my Life and Apparently many of Our Lives.

It is likely that the combination of factors that you mentioned, Richard, created much of our experience. I also believe that the Practice of the TECHNIQUES of Knowledge IS Valuable in getting us in touch with a deeper part of ourselves(not withstanding the Conceptual bullshit we were fed). But I have talked to several Very Sincere Premies and exes..who have told me of incredible Darshan Experiences they had when they first saw Maharaji/Rawat. These Experiences occurred when they were simply Curious about Maharaji..and had little or no expectation ..and in one case believed Maharaji to be a fake. It is not possible to explain these experiences as being the effect of their Belief and/or Expectation.

Any hit on what was generating their Experience??

In one case, a friend of mine was at a festival (Amherst '74) only because her boyfriend took her. She didnt believe Maharaji to be anything more than a charlatan. But when Maharaji came on stage she had an 'out of body' experience and a voice came to her saying this guy is the Lord ...She had No Belief or Expectation...but still Had an Amazing Experience....

I have recently found out that Maharaji is an immature Alcholic, Womanizing..... flawed Human Being...Experiences like she had ..make NO Sense to Me...and I am still grappling with all of this..Any Additional insights...are greatly appreciated.....RichMandrake

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 12:55:53 (EDT)
From: Steve
Email: None
To: RichMandrake
Subject: Re: Placebo Effect..Doesnt Explain it All...
Message:
Well Rich ,

They say God loves a sinner ! A sincere person can be a conduit for some powerful energy even if they have endless flaws and ego.

Maybe what counts is only a persons willingness to let go and allow themselves to be used by higher energy ?

I had a really powerful first darshan yet I had to be persuaded to go in the line. I didn't even meditate at that time and I didn't much like Maha either .

It's a mystery still to me where these cosmic blasts come from.

Steve

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 10:53:13 (EDT)
From: Of course you're still grappling
Email: None
To: RichMandrake
Subject: Dermott, people get high off M and
Message:
there ain't sod all you can do about it!
Except watch and wonder! And wail!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 12:18:34 (EDT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Of course you're still grappling
Subject: Excuse me Mr anonymous
Message:
Unlike you , who are too unsure of yourself to give your name, If I have something to say I'll say it. Rich Mandrake is not me....perhaps the browser convinced you but .....hmm let me think .....hold on .....yup I've thought about it......there must be more than ONE person still using 95. So sorry Sherlock.

People get high on a lotof things .....so what's your point? What does that mean?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 08:29:59 (EDT)
From: Bobo
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Re: Darshan Experiences..Aye..there's the Rub..
Message:
It would be interesting to see if M. had received a secret 5th technique generating the charisma needed for guruship. I would not be surprised.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 22:27:08 (EDT)
From: Gregg
Email: binduesque@yahoo.com
To: BeenThereDoneThat
Subject: Re: Cosmic experiences anyone?
Message:
Actually, the double-foot darshan in Florida was my first darshan, too, having received K in Jan 1975. I felt nothing, and was disapointed.

But that evening, sitting by the pool and about to bite into a candy bar, I spent a moment in gratitude and suddenly felt that energy rush called Holy Name by the cult, and believed it was a delayed darshan reaction.

I left the cult just a few years later, and it has soon became apparent that gratitude, whether willed or present by grace, is one of the primary triggers for the bliss experience.

Believing that we have a living Lord makes it easier to feel that gratitude. It is, of course, ludicrous to believe that Prem Pal Rawat is a Lord, let alone a guru, given his conduct and sub-par discourses.

However, it is not hard at all to understand why PWK's are loathe to discard the Perfect Master myth, having once been there ourselves. It's such a comfort, and it makes gratitude more...tangible.

Of course, gratitude deepens and overwhelms all the more when it is not a belief-dependent emotion.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 08:33:33 (EDT)
From: Bobo
Email: None
To: Gregg
Subject: Re: Cosmic experiences anyone?
Message:
In my experience the most cosmic stuff, like tasting nectar, always happened when I became convinced that 'now I will get acess to an unique way(shortcut) to realize k.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 21:04:59 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: All
Subject: I'm writing this post (aren't I?)
Message:
Musings by some part of Jim Sakshaug on ELK:

Last night in practice, the feeling in this heart
was so deeply intimate and full of love that tears
of joy were welling up and buzzy says, 'I want a
cigarette.' At other times it's, 'I want a banana'
or 'I want to watch TV' or 'I want to go shopping'
or 'I want to build something' or 'I want a
girlfriend' or 'I want another girlfriend'. Buzzy
doesn't have a clue. Buzzy just 'wants'.
Buzzy will never know joyful contentment without
reason.
Did buzzy write this? Probably, but buzzy doesn't
understand it.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Aug 21, 2001 at 02:37:36 (EDT)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: buzzy says,'I want a banana'! hahaha
Message:
[nt]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 21:15:59 (EDT)
From: Francesca ~)
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Buzzy wasn't ...
Message:
... very buzzy, was he?

Either that or he was totally 'buzzed.' Poor guy. He's got a little man in his head, and he's named him 'buzzy.' Somehow it isn't him, it's someone else. More ELK droppings from the dazed herd. Someone ought to quit shining those headlights in those ELK's eyes. Maybe they'd start to make some sense.

Probably snot.

Francesca

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 08:43:30 (EDT)
From: Bobo
Email: None
To: Francesca ~)
Subject: Re: Buzzy wasn't ...
Message:
M. was -in a way- a perfect 'master' for us. All the difficulties meditating on his poorly instructed k. he externalized. The resistance getting into it, the difficulty facing the scattered thoughts distracting were all made into hateful entities. But instead of guiding us through this, what a real master should do, he used it as a reason to lose independence and determination , but instead hang onto him.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 21:45:00 (EDT)
From: Ninkyzin
Email: None
To: Francesca ~)
Subject: Re: Buzzy wasn't ...
Message:
... very buzzy, was he?

Either that or he was totally 'buzzed.' Poor guy. He's got a little man in his head, and he's named him 'buzzy.' Somehow it isn't him, it's someone else. More ELK droppings from the dazed herd. Someone ought to quit shining those headlights in those ELK's eyes. Maybe they'd start to make some sense.

Probably snot.

Francesca


---

Find this site fascinating and funny. strengthens my experience. bloody glad i'm still practising.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 16:02:30 (EDT)
From: McGruff...yep!!
Email: eatme@ex-premie.orgasm
To: All
Subject: Lookie here! Can't Block me!!
Message:
People, people, people, you CAN'T block me. Deal with it.

Some fool uses the word baseball bat and Jim and his spunkcatcher Deborah flip out. But you people post credible threats to disrupt public events (still a crime, you know) and much more, and it's a 'jihad'?

You post floor plans to people's houses and office phone numbers and it's all innocuous, but the minute you get taste of your own medicine you start whining...and resorting to the usual hate stuff. Not to mention your overpopulation of the premie forum.

All just a long way of saying that you people are truly beautiful devotees. Your minds say you hate Maharaji, but your actions, the hours and hours you spend on line, the money you pour into this...it's SOOO clear you are still very very connected to him.

The opposite of love is not hate: Its indifference.

Have a nice day. Maybe I'll be back?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 18:22:29 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: McGruff...yep!!
Subject: This passes for deep wisdom in your cult, no?
Message:
The opposite of love is not hate: Its indifference.

Wow! That's like so deep. It's even a formula kind of, or an equation or something. You're smart!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 17:09:38 (EDT)
From: Annie
Email: None
To: McGruff...yep!!
Subject: Re: Lookie here! Can't Block me!!
Message:
People, people, people, you CAN'T block me. Deal with it.

Some fool uses the word baseball bat and Jim and his spunkcatcher Deborah flip out. But you people post credible threats to disrupt public events (still a crime, you know) and much more, and it's a 'jihad'?

You post floor plans to people's houses and office phone numbers and it's all innocuous, but the minute you get taste of your own medicine you start whining...and resorting to the usual hate stuff. Not to mention your overpopulation of the premie forum.

All just a long way of saying that you people are truly beautiful devotees. Your minds say you hate Maharaji, but your actions, the hours and hours you spend on line, the money you pour into this...it's SOOO clear you are still very very connected to him.

The opposite of love is not hate: Its indifference.

Have a nice day. Maybe I'll be back?


---

You sad individual, whoever you are supposed to be!!!
GO GET A LIFE!!
OH SORRY YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO......LIVING IN THE SHADOW OF YOUR SAVIOUR!!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 16:33:40 (EDT)
From: David
Email: None
To: McGruff...yep!!
Subject: No, YOU threatened Maharaji, McGruff
Message:
Mr McGruff; I didn't block you for writing posts such as your one above - I blocked you because you were writing threatening posts where you threatend to kill Maharaji. You were pretending to be an ex-premie at the time but you yourself threatened to kill Maharaji.

The only ''threats'' to public events by ex-premies have been humorous comments about stink bombs and planes writing in the sky. You know as well as me that there's no threats of violence against Maharaji except by yourself.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 14:10:07 (EDT)
From: BeenThereDoneThat
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Wondering
Message:
I'm wondering if the current crop of pwk's can't believe the revisionism because they didn't experience it. It just doesn't compute on a personal level, even though there's historical, undisputed proof. Sort of like the generation who can't relate to the Vietnam war because they weren't born yet. I bring this up because over brunch yesterday my husband, who came into this in the mid 80's, asked if we ever chartered a plane to festivals. That brought up a few memories and we were both dying with laughter at those traveling gypsy days, flipping out United Airline stewardess' with requests for herb tea and honey, brown rice with vegetable....etc. I then explained some of the severe requirements of living in the ashram and when I got to the not being allowed to see family without permission, he replied 'That's a cult then.' (He's smarter than me.)

So this current generation of pwk's that weren't there are filled with a sort of infantile mentality that those experiences didn't count for anything except to out date premies. HOWEVER, isn't the experience of knowledge supposedely ageless and timeless? When Maharaji said we brought our weaknesses to knowledge and now he needs us to bring strength, I get more than a little insulted. It took a lot of strenghth to cut ties to families, friends, jobs, spouses, work and live under indentured servant conditions and all with a heart full of joy and devotion....I remember him saying once something like what did people want, a guarantee of an electric blanket to join the ashram? The things I read on here what people went through are mind boggling and I feel it took enormous strength and courage. Living with knowledge is a snap these days, if one wants

On the other hand, Maharaji did say things that were of benefit to me, obviously because I was a doooofus that couldn't figure it out for myself. Things like enjoy each day, enjoy this breath, appreciate this life, enjoy the simplicity. That was helpful to me because for whatever reason, I wasn't doing that, I was so stressed out at the ripe old age of 21. The guilt that accompanied those times though still stay with me today. Every aspect of having knowledge and being a devotee was filled with guilt. I'm probably a poster child for how they want people to be these days, but back then, I was the oddball. And so that makes me wonder, why all the guilt. Unfortunately or fortunately, I'm now seeing the answers. But I sure feel a lot better now thanks to you people. I feel lighter than I have in my whole life. Thanks.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 17:07:30 (EDT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: BeenThereDoneThat
Subject: Re: Wondering
Message:
This photo says a lot about the way things were. This was one of 20 or so ashrams housing people doing service at the international headquarters of Divine Light Mission in Denver. The photo was taken so we could send it to our families as a Christmas gift to show how committed we were. We sang Arti morning and night followed by meditation hour. There were literally hundreds of such ashrams throught the US, Canada, South America, Mexico, Middle East, Australia, Europe, Japan and elsewhere world wide. We were proud of the huge organization that had evolved to support Guru Maharaj Ji's (aka The Speaker) stated goals. We brought energy and zealotry to his world peace proclamation. Unfortunately for us, he didn't hold up his end of the deal. Nor did he at any point say, 'Wow that was cool guys but I was young and filled with ideas from birth and... hey lets not waste this energy and lets do some good for humanity.'

There is really very little that has changed from the type of devotional path ca early 70's to what it is today. The shape has shifted and the rhetoric is toned down but the focus is till 99.9% on worshiping M and supporting him via direct donation. While in the 1970's and 1980's we gave our time heart and soul, today a simple credit card deduction acomplishes the same goal - keeping M up there on his throne and everyone else down here on planet earth.

I agree with Pat C that the reason the oldtimers (OT's) don't notice the revisionism is the outward changes have come incrementaly. But also, because 'That Feeling' and 'My Special Personal Experiance' is of utmost importance and the OT's have invested so much of their lives and hearts in Maharajism, it becomes increasingly difficult to turn a critical eye on M&K. Nostalgia mixed with M's charismatic juju convinces the OT's to protect their precious religion against all cost. The OT's have to grow up a bit and face the music in order to move through life without believing M will intercede on their behalf at death.
[ Ashram 1973 Denver ]
[ Graphic Link ]

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 06:18:19 (EDT)
From: Mr. Mind
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: I wonder how many in that...
Message:
...picture are still in the cult? I count 21 adult types and 2 children. I recognize some but don't know .

My guess would be 3 or 4 still involved w/ the maharaji.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 17:12:49 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Ha ha ha
Message:
That's one of the funniest pics I've seen for some time. Only the children look normal. I hope they turned out alright and didn't look like their elders did.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 14:48:35 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: BeenThereDoneThat
Subject: Re: Wondering
Message:
Hi BTDT, most of the premies I know are old 70s folks like us but the revisionism happened so incrementally that they didn't notice it. Also most did not get involved with the in-crowd the way I did to the point of being told that there were secrets that not all premies should know etc. They have been on the fringe most of the time and never understood fanatics like I used to be.

My partner got K in 81 and is not as infected with the religion as I am. He was never told that he would rot and go to hell if he walked etc. BUt, as soon as he got involved in ''synchronized participation'' last year for the first time, he saw that it was a secretive and creepy cult.

Anyway I was walking last night and suddenly realized that getting rid of cult-think was like taking stones out of my shoes. It just gets better everyday to see what an unnecessary lot of rubbish I swallowed from Rev Rawat.

Best wishes,

Patrick Conlon

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 19:26:28 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: Not Wondering
Message:
Hi PatC,

Yes, I rec'd Knowledge in '80. We were still watching all the old videos (at least in Miami) and so I got indoctrinated into that 70's jujuism second-hand.

However, I'm sure it is different having not suffered first-hand through the ashram and abusive austerity phase.

Cheers

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 09:46:55 (EDT)
From: And On Anand Ji
Email: and_on_anand@yahoo.com
To: All
Subject: 2001: A Spacey-Premie Odyssey
Message:
We may very well be the first people in history (because of the Internet) to deprogram ourselves from an exited cult. I wonder if cult-leader behaviors are not, on some level, functional for the species? Maybe Maharaji is like a king and a soldier -- no, really: listen. He could be useful in times of war; fanatic devotion to a leader could spell the difference between a tribe's success and their being vanquished, utterly, in the face of the enemy. Little kingdoms, principalities -- a small domain.

Supposing Maharaji's megalomania were amplified beyond his normal grasp (from simpler times gone by) by an accident of history, that placed at his disposal things like Lear jets and videotape recording devices? Part of his 'crime' is the failure to recognize the amplification of power carries amplified responsibility to wield it wisely.

Do we need wild-eyed, megalomaniacal leadership, from time to time? Probably! It's not always going to go so well for us, as a species. We are in boom-time economics. There is plenty.

Let them all go to Hell, except for Cave 76.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 13:14:51 (EDT)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: And On Anand Ji
Subject: Re: 2001: A Spacey-Premie Odyssey
Message:
ver good post ji.. King lear Jets spring to mind. The seeds of the undoing of the most powerful King lie in their own hand. from the Greeks through the Wonders of Shakespeare it has been the common folk and the wise simpleton who have forseen and cautioned Kings against their own folly. We are the Greek chorus... and He is not listening.. so all we can do is watch as the fates do their thing.. if the ship is sinking.. JUMP

Love to all

Loaf

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 14:59:28 (EDT)
From: Ji Ma I Want To Go Home
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: King Lear jets! [nt]
Message:
[nt]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 09:00:58 (EDT)
From: Annie
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Is Sir Dave on-line??
Message:
I've just tried to call both your home and mobile numbers- no joy!
If you're not here now maybe I'll try later.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 16:08:39 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Annie
Subject: I am now
Message:
My mobile phone is on now and it'll be left on until I go to bed. Tomorrow, Monday, I'll leave it on too. If you get me on my mobile and I'm at home or near a land line, I'll either phone you back or you can re-phone on the land number.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 08:33:34 (EDT)
From: Silvia
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Maharaji's contradictions
Message:
Premies,

Serious question:

Can you explain why your MASTER (irony-you, dog)contadicts himself? One of his videos title is 'You Are Complete' and another is titled 'The missing piece'.

Please, asnwer my question. I am interested in knowing yoru point of view about his contradictions.

Ex-premies, of course your opinion is important also. Is maharaji full of crap or what? He dupped us good, didn't him? Now, NOW I am beggining to see how he did it: He kept me confused enough that I had to stay, needing him, afraid perhaps of 'rotten vegetables', of what the mahatma who reveal K to me said in the K session: 'If you stop practicing K you'll go crazy.'

Which one is it? Maharaji says: 'If you like it Fine, if you don't like it walk.' Do people go crazy or they can live at any time?

What a complicated cult!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 20:37:57 (EDT)
From: Silvia
Email: None
To: Silvia
Subject: You are Complete NT
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 20:38:40 (EDT)
From: Silvia
Email: None
To: Silvia
Subject: Versus
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 20:46:48 (EDT)
From: Silvia
Email: None
To: Silvia
Subject: The Missing Piece
Message:
Which one is it? Am I complete or a part of me is missing? What a deceiving person you are maharaji.

Your premies are awakening and I'm sure you realize is just a matter of time for your scam to be uncovered. Yes, your knowledge will reach the WHOLE world alright. Is called World News.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 06:50:17 (EDT)
From: Who remembers Jim Kweskin and
Email: None
To: All
Subject: the Jugband? He joined a cult
Message:
Jim Kweskin Jug Band
The Jim Kweskin Jug Band formed in the early 1960s in Cambridge, MA. They played a combination of old time folk, jazz and blues tunes with a special emphesis on the material of the jug band of the 1920s. Kweskin was the nominal leader of the band, though Geoff Muldaur was usually heard on lead guitar and vocals. The band also included Bill Keith on banjo, Mel Lyman on harmonica, Fritz Richmand on jug and washtub bass, Richard Greene on fiddle and Maria D'Amato on vocals and kazoo.
Maria married Geoff and went on to a successful solo career under her married name (Maria Muldaur), fiddle virtuoso Richard Greene joined Blues Project and then Seatrain, Mel Lyman formed his own authoritarian religion and Kweskin became one of his converts.

They used to play at Club 47 in Cambridge, Mass in late 60's...

Mr. Mind

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 14:25:03 (EDT)
From: Francesca :C)
Email: None
To: Who remembers Jim Kweskin and
Subject: Remember quite well
Message:
Being originally an east-coast gal, Mel Lyman's cult was one of the first ones I heard about through my circle of friends. When I was about 18, a high school chum of my best friend had tried to join Mel Lyman's cult and was rejected. At about 18 or 19, it hurt him deeply, of course. We thought he was nuts and felt sorry for him.

They literally thought Mel Lyman was God, and used to put out a newletter or something. I believe it was called 'Avatar.' I guess, several years later and down on my emotional luck, it was easier to believe a tubby 15 year old from India was god, rather than a harmonica player from my favorite jug band. Never saw them play live, but had all their records. I didn't know Kweskin was a devotee although I'm not surprised. I don't think Lyman had a large role in the band, musically.

Actually it took some doing to make me believe M was god, too, but 'get 'em when they're young and down.'

I loved Geoff Muldaur's voice. Also listened to a lot of 'Holy Modal Rounders,' and some of the East Village 'Fugs.' Dating myself here, eh?

Bests, Francesca

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 16:10:04 (EDT)
From: Mr. Mind
Email: None
To: Francesca :C)
Subject: I remember the Fugs too [nt]
Message:
[nt]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Aug 21, 2001 at 02:26:14 (EDT)
From: such
Email: None
To: Mr. Mind
Subject: Tuli Kupferberg of da Fugs
Message:
some of the da Fugs used to do gigs with us in NYC.

I used to play at Club 47, during my folksinger-songwriter incarnation.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 15:47:17 (EDT)
From: Ulf
Email: None
To: Francesca :C)
Subject: Holy Modal Roundersl
Message:
Did The Holy Modal Rounders have a song on the Soundtrack L.P
called : Easy rider ? a very slow beat , but very nice .
Ulf
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 15:08:43 (EDT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Francesca :C)
Subject: Re: Remember quite well
Message:
I had some early Jug Band albums and really enjoyed the funky, whacky stuff they played. I built my own washtub base and played that and kazoo a couple of times in coffee houses with a friend who sang, played guitar and harmonica. I hummed the tunes for years but can't recall a single one now. Knew nothing about the Guru Lyman thing.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 16:51:29 (EDT)
From: Francesca :C)
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Washington at Valley Forge ...
Message:
freezing cold but
up spoke George!
he said
'Vo do di yo
vo do di yo do!'

On his ukelele, daily
he would strum
beedle-um bum
Dancin' prancin'

Then he'd holler:
'Red Hot Mamma!'
Crazy, words, crazy tune
Oh that George would croon and swoon
he'd sing:
'Vo do di yo
vo do di yo doooooooo.'

Just a taste of wacky!

Yes, Brits, this is truly how the Americans won the Revolutionary War. George was too smart for that flute and Mala and bare chested stuff. Plus, Geez, it was cooooold.

Love, Francesca

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 17:17:52 (EDT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Francesca :C)
Subject: Relax Your Mind (OT)
Message:
Relax Your Mind was the album I had around 1966-7. It's all a blur after that.
[ Kewskin Discography ]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 17:57:00 (EDT)
From: Francesca :C)
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Re: Relax Your Mind (OT)
Message:
Record covers and songs on numbers 1 through 7 are all very familiar to me. Of course with many roomates and friends, those albums were just AROUND. Saw Washington At Valley Forge was on the first one, Unblushing Brassiness. Silly ragtime songs!

Bests, Francesca

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 00:27:45 (EDT)
From: flatulent singh rawat
Email: None
To: All
Subject: How it really started
Message:
Shri Maharaji was in the poker game from hell -- on a bad losing streak. The old master, Frat Pal Sing Rawat, had long outlived his glory days of drinking beer and sticking three fingers onto his frat pal's faces, showing them the Light. He was tired. He wanted out.

Shri Maharaji drew his last card, and didn't make his flush. The loser had to pick up the Frat Pal franchise, and make do with it -- had to work the devotee circuit until he could trick someone else into taking over (it was considered trivial to explain to the devotees, the rite of succession -- best satsanghi advice was 'Make some shit up -- they'll believe whatever you tell them to believe.')

Shri Maharaji lost the hand, of course. Everyone at the table laughed and laughed and laughed! Poor Hansi. Of course, nobody knew he'd take it to the extremes that are now the stuff of DLM history and legend.

'Ah, Jwata Ji. I miss the days when I was a
simple horse-thief' Shri Maharaji said, after
he was installed as the new Satgurudev.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 21:20:24 (EDT)
From: Silvia
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Right to believe
Message:
The son of a premie friend of mine say to me that his father has the right to believe in maharaji and my response was: Yes he does, but if he tries to 'pedal' K to others, if he colaborates with maharaji lying to people saying that K is the best experience a person can have I have a problem with that.

The ultimate goal of maharaji's cult is to fall in love with his person. It is based in a dream, isn't?

I have a problem with the lie. If maharaji was honest and say flat out what the 'trick' is and people DECIDE to go for it it would be okay. What is not okay is to say to people 'is all about you' when in reality is all about his fat ass!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 21:55:51 (EDT)
From: Miss Triss Cleo
Email: a0aji@sacrelege.com
To: Silvia
Subject: Re: Right to believe
Message:
The son of a premie friend of mine say to me that his father has the right to believe in maharaji and my response was: Yes he does, but if he tries to 'pedal' K to others, if he colaborates with maharaji lying to people saying that K is the best experience a person can have I have a problem with that.

The ultimate goal of maharaji's cult is to fall in love with his person. It is based in a dream, isn't?

I have a problem with the lie. If maharaji was honest and say flat out what the 'trick' is and people DECIDE to go for it it would be okay. What is not okay is to say to people 'is all about you' when in reality is all about his fat ass!


---

He has a right to speech. I have a right to counter his argument.
My rights end where his begin, and vice-versa.

The reason: it is Constitutionally-protected free speech.

God is in this peach pit [holds up peach pit.]

Send money. [Flashes address on TV screen].

Call me now! For your Free Reading!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 20:06:11 (EDT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Is the war over or are they ...
Message:
... sharpening their swords (or should I say fencing foils). The strange premie slime was all over this place, and then they went away. I told my husband this morning that I don't know whether they'd finally gotten a clue, and realized they were doing harm to their 'cause.' Or perhaps gotten agya filtered through Elan Vital or something.

This board was crawling with wierdos and spammers, woman haters and all sorts of strange shite. Maybe Sir Dave blocked them (he usually doesn't bother though). Whatever, it's nice for a New York minute.

Quiet on the front. For now.

Francesca

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 04:56:44 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: No - sharpening their swords
Message:
You spoke too soon.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 22:09:24 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: Re: Is the war over or are they ...
Message:
Only McGruff and Wango Tango (who was also some other people) have been blocked. SC aka Mitch Ward showed himself to be making up stories and gave up and left.

Related to something below, I don't think people can ''bring Maharaji down''. Sure he can be curtailed but even if the worst happened and he was imprisoned like Sun Myung Moon was, he would bounce back when he was released from prison.

When Moon left prison, he became even more powerful and he had a ceremony with his devotees where he was crowned the King of the Universe. Now in his eighties, he's still going strong.

So I don't think people can stop Maharaji from doing his thing but we can provide essential information about him and prevent him from conning too many people. We have already done that in spades and all from cheap forums and a few websites, only one which is on a payed host.

We've put a brake on his train. We've prevented him from spreading blatant falsehood in the way he used to. He is now restricted to just those dyed-in-the-wool devotees who will probably remain his followers until either they or Maharaji pass on.

Propagation? Any new people who receive knowledge after the long wait soon leave Maharaji's influence once they have the techniques. They rarely become permanent followers.

If Maharaji's mission was something that was of benefit to humanity it would be silly to try and curtail him. But his mastership is damaging to people so he'll always have this shadow.

Maharaji's not a quitter. He's persistent and doesn't give up easily. If he wasn't spouting so much damaging nonsense, I'd applaud him for his tenaciousness.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 11:02:38 (EDT)
From: Mitch Ward
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Correction
Message:
It is you who were making up stories, about who you thought was who.

Just can't come clean about your 'mistake' can you?

We don't engage here (except to defend ourselves) because it is excruciatingly boring for anyone with an iq over 50.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 16:15:05 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Mitch Ward
Subject: Ha ha, that's funny
Message:
Sorry but forgive my warped sense of humour. I can't help it since I've only got an IQ of 49.

But you say, ''We don't engage here''. Would that ''we'' be you and SC the woman hater. Do you really have that Multiple Personality Disorder where you always refer to yourself as ''we''?

Another David, David 2, who undoubtedly has an IQ of well over 100 has written a very good post to you below. I hope you can answer it.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 14:31:38 (EDT)
From: David 2
Email: None
To: Mitch Ward
Subject: Re: Correction
Message:
Mitch,

After I spent two years in a holy roller cult in Florida during the middle 70', our married spritual leader ( closer to Jesus than everyone else) was busted having sex with several of the sisters. Many other of his transgressions were also reveal at this time.

Most of us left. The believers who remained made a lot of excuses for his behavior ( because they wanted to keep on believing he was the answer for their connection to god and happiness).

What I learned from this experience is not to trust anyone who says.... I am closer to God than you are. I also reserve the right to question and investigate all suspect behavior in anyone claims to be devine. If I find such person is profiting in anyway from steering my existence, I want to know the details and then tell all others who are associates. I quess this is why I never received K (or better describe as meditation techniques that are not owned my anyone). I was a bad little aspirant who would not even ask for K because of all the dogma attached.

Mitch, I am sure you are a good person. Please do not let a guy who has a 40 million $ jet......and all the other stuff that has nothing to do with real life happiness scam you.

The truth is: M has a business of taking your money for his own gain. He has manipulated premies to give him sex, money, drugs, and lots of possessions. He is small and insignificant, and why is he controlling your life?

Love Dave

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 00:46:32 (EDT)
From: Francesca :C)
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: RIGHT ON and thanks for the info! [nt]
Message:
[nt]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 21:16:59 (EDT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: Sharpening their swords for sure...
Message:
...if the post below from +) below is anything to go by.

A rich man with ill gotten gains is capable of anything if he feels his income under threat.

If Saucy is Salam then someone has been going through months of posts on this & forum5 in order to find stuff that that could be construed as threatening physically to rawat.

Pathetic that all they can come up with are a few posts going on about flying a plane with a 'fuck you' banner over the site of Amaroo, but frightening that they can get an unspecified agency to investigate on that kind of basis.

I'm assuming you've read the post below BTW.

I'll say it again : that man & his minions are capable of anything, we are just at the beginning of the fightback against the truth.

Yours in paranoia Pat Dorrity }(

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 21:31:09 (EDT)
From: Francesca :C)
Email: None
To: Bin Liner
Subject: beat their swords into stock market shares
Message:
Dear Pat,

If this unspecified agency is really investigating, and they aren't the police or the government, no one has to cooperate with them either. If they are some private gooks hired by guguji just to scare people that IS pathetic.

They are more about smoke and mirrors than anything. But it is ugly. They did get websites shut down in the past, although they are all back up now. The marble cold touch and words of paranoid people can get us started ourselves, no doubt. Yeechhh.

I hope they don't hassle anyone too much. They won't find much ammo on FV or F6, although some people have expressed a little anger.

Bests, Francesca

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 00:33:52 (EDT)
From: Zelda
Email: None
To: Francesca :C)
Subject: Seems hoky that and 'agency' would give warning [nt]
Message:
[nt]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 22:02:25 (EDT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: Francesca :C)
Subject: Re: beat their swords into stock market shares
Message:
they are not gooks, they are gov. and u have to co-operate or your ass is mince. My next post woll be from LongBay jail.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 04:33:41 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: salam
Subject: I sure wish this was a joke, Salam
Message:
I know you sometimes make very wry jokes but you never lie. If I were you I would make a phone call to the Oz equivalent of the American Civil Liberties Union or the Arab Anti-Defamation League or an Immigrant civil rights group. If you are serious then I am serious.

It seems as if Rawat's thugs have found a scapegoat with a weak spot (working class caucasian anti-arab feelings.) I would not trust an Oz cop anymore than I would trust a white South African cop during apartheid. From what I have read many Aussies are nasty racists and most of the men seem to be twisted - at the least the male Oz premies who post here are. I hope you've got clever and/or powerful friends.

For what it's worth I am making this post to you to show my solidarity and to vouch for your character. If any dumb gungho premie like Whitla has reported you to the police because of some off the wall joke you have made then that will come out, I hope. Meantime I wouldn't take chances with any cop. I'm allergic to cops ever since living under a police state for 30 years.

Please let me know by email if you don't want to say anymore here. BUt I think it is best to say it all here out in the open so everyone can see what cult BS this is.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 14:33:16 (EDT)
From: Francesca :C)
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: And you've got my solidarity too ...
Message:
... if this is for real. And if it's a joke, please tell us.

There are several Aussie males with their multiple troll personalities that have been playing all sorts of games, and have shown their nastiness and misogyny over time on this Forum. EV is a paranoid bunch of fools; we've seen that over the years. They have a lot to protect, because their Master is a paranoid megalomaniac fraud.

If any agency could be shown enough sample posts to see how nasty the premies can get (remember NotSoQuietGuy aka Charles Glasser), and enough examples of nasty shots on both sides, they could see that the culture of an open Forum on the Internet is going to spawn some nasty statements and wild jokes.

You've got my e-mail, and Jim gave you his as well, the other day.

Bests, Francesca

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 18:11:38 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: and_on_anand@yahoo.com
To: All
Subject: Are Premies Welcome Here? M Created the Schism
Message:
Are Premies welcome here?

Maharaji created the schism, not us. We are 'normal' people now. We threw off his teachings.

Premies, did not. That is a schism.

If there is a schism, aren't we too far apart to communicate with one another, at all?

Don't the premies have to come here on our terms, since it is 'they' who are 'crazy' in our view?

Isn't our view correct?

Because if it isn't -- go kiss the lotus feet, dude. Cuz we're going to hell. We are shark bait. HE SAID SO.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 06:07:48 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: a0aji
Subject: Attention craving flotsam and jestom.
Message:
Hi a0aji,

I don't think there is a separation between premies and none premies.

One of the things that has pissed me off more than anything else with Rawat and the Cult, is the way they have behaved and reacted to the Jagdeo allegations. When I became involved in the matter, about three years ago, the cult were much more dismissive of the allegations than they are nowadays. At this time, a member of my local premie community, also an a old friend, came to ask me what was going on, as it looked like going to appear in a national newspaper about the place they lived. The question was on behalf of local premies, many of whom knew one of the victims.

When I confirmed what he suspected, that anyone examing the evidence would conclude that Jagdeo was guilty, he told me, on behalf of the locals, that they totally supported anything that would bring Jagdeo to justice. This attitude was very supportive both to myself and the victim, and very different from the reaction that came through the official channels (I was threatened with legal action if I mentioned it on the forum.)

You could draw a line and put everyone who was initiated into the cult on it. At one extreme you would have the die in the hard fanatics, who still believe that the Captain is greater than God. At the other end you have nutters like myself, who are getting great benefit from the 'Kick the Cult on the Way Out' school of therapy. In the middle is a range of folk, who, like sand in an egg timer, are sliding towards the tiny opening between Cult Land and Real Life.

In that tiny gap are a few websites and a couple of forums, lots of froth and little debate (Premies are incapable of sustained discussion on any topic relating to their religious beliefs). And through that gap flow 'premies' on the way to becoming 'non-premies', then 'ex-premies'. Some go slow and some go fast. When many premies finally get to read through the stuff on EPO, they are like ripe fruit dropping from a tree.

Lots and lots of premies simply stopped practicing the techniques and going to see the Captain, but never thought through what they'd been through. Probably lots of them still have some sort of psychological attachment to Rawat, like a baby with the umbilical still dangling.

Anyway, between the two extremes spitting at each other, I suspect most folk cruise through at a different altitude.

What you see a lot of here is the attention craving flotsam and jetsom, from the flood on the dirty floor in one of life's dark dungeons.

Anth, tea break over.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 08:35:55 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: and_on_anand@yahoo.com
To: AJW
Subject: Nice post, Anth!
Message:
Hi a0aji,

I don't think there is a separation between premies and none premies.

One of the things that has pissed me off more than anything else with Rawat and the Cult, is the way they have behaved and reacted to the Jagdeo allegations. When I became involved in the matter, about three years ago, the cult were much more dismissive of the allegations than they are nowadays. At this time, a member of my local premie community, also an a old friend, came to ask me what was going on, as it looked like going to appear in a national newspaper about the place they lived. The question was on behalf of local premies, many of whom knew one of the victims.

When I confirmed what he suspected, that anyone examing the evidence would conclude that Jagdeo was guilty, he told me, on behalf of the locals, that they totally supported anything that would bring Jagdeo to justice. This attitude was very supportive both to myself and the victim, and very different from the reaction that came through the official channels (I was threatened with legal action if I mentioned it on the forum.)

You could draw a line and put everyone who was initiated into the cult on it. At one extreme you would have the die in the hard fanatics, who still believe that the Captain is greater than God. At the other end you have nutters like myself, who are getting great benefit from the 'Kick the Cult on the Way Out' school of therapy. In the middle is a range of folk, who, like sand in an egg timer, are sliding towards the tiny opening between Cult Land and Real Life.

In that tiny gap are a few websites and a couple of forums, lots of froth and little debate (Premies are incapable of sustained discussion on any topic relating to their religious beliefs). And through that gap flow 'premies' on the way to becoming 'non-premies', then 'ex-premies'. Some go slow and some go fast. When many premies finally get to read through the stuff on EPO, they are like ripe fruit dropping from a tree.

Lots and lots of premies simply stopped practicing the techniques and going to see the Captain, but never thought through what they'd been through. Probably lots of them still have some sort of psychological attachment to Rawat, like a baby with the umbilical still dangling.

Anyway, between the two extremes spitting at each other, I suspect most folk cruise through at a different altitude.

What you see a lot of here is the attention craving flotsam and jetsom, from the flood on the dirty floor in one of life's dark dungeons.

Anth, tea break over.


---

I'm thinking about a mindset, more than a typist. For myself,
when a premie here (never mind the noun) posts and asks for
favors, they're not going to get any from me. The premie
mindset is unwelcome here. *That experience* .. of obstinate
unreasonableness, with a cult theme to it .. is unwelcome to
my ears, and an open target for merciless critique.

Hey, if they're reasoning, they're not really premies anymore.
They may say they are. They may think they are. But willing
to engage in point-by-point, rational debate? That's not a
premie. Bfft. Sorry .. your cult tether got untied while
you were asleep at the controls of your dirigible. You became
human again, while you slept.

IF THE CULT HAD TATOOS, we could have had an interesting discussion
about them! There's no doubt we were all premies once. Something
happened in the interim; I did not come here (ever!) asking the
ex-premies for an apology for their unkind views expressed about
Maharaji. I came here with jaw agape, and a switch threw.

The 'Of Course!' switch.

I'm suggesting the Ex-Premie.Org site speaks for itself, and
speaks eloquently enough. Maybe I'm just lucky; maybe I'm just
still stuck inside an Us and Them model of the world.

This thread reminded me I do have a couple or four premies, still
somewhere on the other side of the Foul Line, whom I care for.
Probably more still, if I thought about it harder or made some
visits. The cult robbed me of those abilities, Anth. I don't
have any visits left in me, that I know of.

Anyway, it was either Deborah or JHB who had me pegged correctly.
I think it was Deborah. I'm asking the questions. I was really
quite pleased with the responses: better than I gave, I got.
[ a0a when he's not Ji-ing around ]

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 06:30:59 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: 12' version of above post.
Message:
My connection timed out while I was editing my post. So here's the final version.

Hi a0aji,

I don't think there is a separation between premies and none premies.

One of the things that has pissed me off more than anything else with Rawat and the Cult, is the way they have behaved and reacted to the Jagdeo allegations. When I became involved in the matter, about three years ago, the cult were much more dismissive of the allegations than they are nowadays. At this time, a member of my local premie community, also an a old friend, came to ask me what was going on, as it looked like something was going to appear in a national newspaper about the place they lived. The question was on behalf of local premies, many of whom knew one of the victims.

When I confirmed what he suspected, that anyone examing the evidence would conclude that Jagdeo was guilty, he told me, on behalf of the locals, that they totally supported anything that would bring Jagdeo to justice. This attitude was very supportive both to myself and the victim, and very different from the reaction that came through the official channels (I was threatened with legal action if I mentioned it on the forum.)

You could draw a line and put everyone who was initiated into the cult on it. At one extreme you would have the die in the hard fanatics, who still believe that the Captain is greater than God. At the other end you have nutters like myself, who are getting great benefit from the 'Kick the Cult on the Way Out' school of therapy. In the middle is a range of folk, who, like sand in an egg timer, are sliding towards the tiny opening between Cult Land and Real Life.

In that tiny gap are a few websites and a couple of forums, lots of froth and little debate (Premies are incapable of sustained discussion on any topic relating to their religious beliefs). And through that gap flow 'premies' on the way to becoming 'non-premies', then 'ex-premies'. Some go slow and some go fast. When many premies finally get to read through the stuff on EPO, they are like ripe fruit dropping from a tree.

Lots and lots of premies simply stopped practicing the techniques and going to see the Captain, but never thought through what they'd been through. Probably lots of them still have some sort of psychological attachment to Rawat, like a baby with the umbilical still dangling.

Anyway, between the two extremes spitting at each other, I suspect most folk cruise through at a different altitude.

What you see a lot of here is the attention craving flotsam and jetsom, from the flood on the dirty floor in one of life's dark dungeons.

Anth, tea break over.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 19:56:43 (EDT)
From: Francesca :C)
Email: None
To: a0aji
Subject: It depends
Message:
Committed premies are wasting everyone's time here. I don't come to an 'ex-premie' forum to debate with premies, or to get satsanged by them. I'm not here to convince them to leave.

My few friends that are premies would not post on here, because what would be the point. I'm sure several of them lurk, but what would they have to add to the discussion, if they have any sense?

The Forum can't be everything to everyone. That's what Lifes [sic] Great is for, if the premies want to kitibz.

I don't know about scisms. I do not agree that there's much nice about Maharaji or premiedom, so there's no use discussing it.

I don't care if my view is 'wrong' or 'right,' that's not the "pwant." I walked a long time ago, and I'm not here to save anyone. That's what gooroos are for. I would be happy if people left, for sure. But it would be patronizing of me to be trying to save them. They are adults and can think for themselves.

Now if there was a conference board with several discussions going on, then perhaps we could have a debate room, for Jim and Pac-man. Then all those who like to debate could have fun in there, and the debaters wouldn't get told to cut it out, and the people who don't want to debate could have fun there. PROBLEM WITH THAT is that all the wierdo premies who like to post on ex-premie boards would not restrict themselves to the proper conferences and would be all over the place.

Agree with all of Deb's comments below, also.

Bests, Francesca

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 20:19:17 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: and_on_anand@yahoo.com
To: Francesca :C)
Subject: Re: It depends
Message:
Committed premies are wasting everyone's time here. I don't come to an 'ex-premie' forum to debate with premies, or to get satsanged by them. I'm not here to convince them to leave.

My few friends that are premies would not post on here, because what would be the point. I'm sure several of them lurk, but what would they have to add to the discussion, if they have any sense?

The Forum can't be everything to everyone. That's what Lifes [sic] Great is for, if the premies want to kitibz.

I don't know about scisms. I do not agree that there's much nice about Maharaji or premiedom, so there's no use discussing it.

I don't care if my view is 'wrong' or 'right,' that's not the "pwant." I walked a long time ago, and I'm not here to save anyone. That's what gooroos are for. I would be happy if people left, for sure. But it would be patronizing of me to be trying to save them. They are adults and can think for themselves.

Now if there was a conference board with several discussions going on, then perhaps we could have a debate room, for Jim and Pac-man. Then all those who like to debate could have fun in there, and the debaters wouldn't get told to cut it out, and the people who don't want to debate could have fun there. PROBLEM WITH THAT is that all the wierdo premies who like to post on ex-premie boards would not restrict themselves to the proper conferences and would be all over the place.

Agree with all of Deb's comments below, also.

Bests, Francesca


---

Yeah.

One nice thing about Motet is it has a filter -- unfortunately, it
is a global filter; so if you didn't like what a0aji was saying in
the cookie cutter conference, you don't get to pick and choose about
it
---
you filter him for all or no conferences.

I haven't tried it yet, so I don't know if it's like WellEngaged
used to be (you could peek!) I like to filter and peek; most of
the time I don't peek; once in a while I over-filter and am glad
I did peek.

I liked what Deborah and LBJ said, a lot. JHB? BHT? Something
like that. ;)

*bad* a0aji!
[ Uncle Sam Wants YOU ]

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 19:19:35 (EDT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: a0aji
Subject: It's just conversation and information
Message:
I think you're dressing this up too much. The forum is just a series of conversations about a particular subject. Some people in a conversation will never change their point of view, others will listen and adapt. Some will always contribute, others will simply listen quietly. Sometimes someone will say something that is newsworthy, and everyone will digest what was said.

The anti-Maharaji websites are different. There, information is published for anyone to read. I read EPO and the forum archives (conversations that become published information) and made a decision that I no longer wished to hold Maharaji in high regard. Many others have done the same. Because of this, I am happy to support the existence of EPO, and because they have contributed to EPO, the forums.

Regarding bringing Maharaji down, I don't see that I can, or am willing to put in the necessary effort. It would be wonderful if, for instance, he was convicted of some crime that all but the most ardent follower would be disgusted by, or if he announced his retirement and apologised for misleading gullible young people by claiming to be God. But if it doesn't happen, I'll get on with my life.

But for those who really want (as opposed to 'would like') to bring him down, why not form some sort of clandestine group, raise money, and hire private detectives to gather really damaging information on the Lard? If he's drunk every night, I can't imagine his security is that good.

But the more premies that come to their senses by reading the information on the internet, the better.

John.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 18:25:42 (EDT)
From: Silvia
Email: None
To: a0aji
Subject: Premies shouldn't be welcome
Message:
We were abused my maharaji and now we shouldn't have to be abused by his devotees. Right on.

Good point.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 18:21:21 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: a0aji
Subject: Are You Secretly Trying To Save The Premies?
Message:
Are you here to 'save' the premies?

Do you think that's how you got out -- someone hung out on ex-premie.org long enough for you to arrive -- and then they saved you? Are you saved now?

Or did your own upbringing -- from early childhood; public schooling,
and yes, even the Church -- save you from being irredeemably brainwashed and accepting of the broken programming of M.

I think a basic problem with the Forums is that there are two
contradicting missions: saving premies, and not giving a f*ck
about premies (whether they escape the cult or not).

I don't care if one premie escapes. Not one. I want HIM brought
to justice; let premies figure it out on their own, if they can.

I'm not here to save the premies. I don't think they want to
be saved, do you?

But I do think that some of you think we are here to save the
premies. I think some of you are deeply invested in that mission.

Two missions. Incompatible!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 06:43:35 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: a0aji
Subject: It's no secret a0aji
Message:
I spent 25 years trying to 'save people' from the darkness and ignorance of the world, by bringing them to the feet of the Living Perfect Master. Isn't it natural that I should now spend a further 25 years 'saving people' back from the darkness and ignorance of the cult by bringing them back to the crazy joy or trying to make sense of reality?

I was 'saved' when I joined, and 'saved again' when I left. 'Saving souls' has been an interest of mine for as long as I can remember. You get right to the heart of the person and what makes them tick really quickly, when you're trying to save their soul.

I also support your laudible aim of getting the Captain to take responsibility and make recompense for the mess he's made by pretending to be God Almighty.

I also support Amnesty International, Greenpeace, and other things. I have other hobbies besides 'saving souls'. I approach them with similar single pointed fanaticism, procrastination and bullshit.

Anth, what do you expect after all those drugs and all that brainwashing?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 18:53:20 (EDT)
From: Annie
Email: None
To: a0aji
Subject: AND YES!!
Message:
I care very much for the state of my friends, many of which are premies and aspirants(I can't stand these words). 'Save them' not so much, but plant a seed so that they might save themselves .....Definately!!!
What are you on anyway?
whatever it is it aint doin' you much good!!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 22:15:26 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: and_on_anand@yahoo.com
To: Annie
Subject: Bhole Ji == deer-in-the-headlights look
Message:
I care very much for the state of my friends, many of which are premies and aspirants(I can't stand these words). 'Save them' not so much, but plant a seed so that they might save themselves .....Definately!!!
What are you on anyway?
whatever it is it aint doin' you much good!!


---

Think about the four sons of Shri Hans Ji Maharaj.
Think about his wife, Mata Ji.
How the hell would Satpal (Bal Bhagwan Ji) escape that vortex?
The trapped look on Bhole Ji's face was unmistakeable to my then sixteen-year old eyes. He knew then, what we all know, now.
His father was a lunatic, sadistic deeply disturbed man who
was so angry at an already fringe-lunatic religious establishment
that he had to rebel and become a guru-god, just to show them who
was boss. There's a story of when Shri Maharaji just split -- just
left his whole following of devotees in a lurch, and traveled across
India, to found another church -- just to f*ck his devotees over.

Just to spite them.

Please. Whatever else, don't tell us you know things unless you
are willing to talk about it all. And if you weren't there,
count your blessings. I was only sixteen. If it were a sex
thing, and I were a girl, instead of the *boy* that I was --
that'd be statutory rape.

My adolescence was spent entirely inside a cult; I met Maharaji
two years after the onset of puberty -- maybe three.

What am I on? Pfft. We'll never know, because it was taken
away from me at the end of childhood by somebody just two
years older than me.

All the other ex's pretty much just hate the rat-bastard,
but I empathize with him, deeply -- his father mind-f*cked
him in a way I understand.
So, you know -- if you weren't around in the mid '70's,
hitch-hiking across America and Europe following your guru,
you can't touch what I went through. You can't even begin to.

Not that it was a good thing. Not that there's anything
redeeming about it. It's to be survived; take whatever
is left and deal with it, because hey: nobody is rescuing
what's left of your life for you. You do it yourself, or
you die.

Some of us don't really want to die. We want to (perhaps,
impossibly) Take Back The Night. We want to feel safe,
maybe for the first time in our lives.
So.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 07:05:24 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: a0aji
Subject: The Other Side.
Message:
Hi again,

I too find it easy to see the Captain as a victim, and this was my first explanation when I discovered EPO about three years ago, and started sorting everything out.

I had a discussion about a year ago which prompted me to see another side of the subject. I think it touches on one of life's dilemas.

Abusers were once the abused. We learn nasty behaviour from people who are nasty to us.

However, there has to come a point where people take individual responsibility for what they are doing. This applies to you and me, and it also applies to Captain Rawat. If someone is exploiting and abusing someone else, it's the exploited who need help first.

Whatever course of action he feels like taking, he'll get great support from those around him. But what does he do? Retreats further into his Malibu bunker and gets the executive jet catalogue out.

It's time he grew up. He can't pretend to be God Almighty all his life. He's not stupid. He can see the magic doesn't work. He can see the declining numbers. He's aware of the declining income.

Aw, fuck him.

When did you get out of the cult a0aji? Are you a recent exit? What kicked you through the door?

Anth, you may make one phone call.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 08:56:42 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Re: The Other Side.
Message:
Hi again,

I too find it easy to see the Captain as a victim, and this was my first explanation when I discovered EPO about three years ago, and started sorting everything out.

I had a discussion about a year ago which prompted me to see another side of the subject. I think it touches on one of life's dilemas.

Abusers were once the abused. We learn nasty behaviour from people who are nasty to us.

However, there has to come a point where people take individual responsibility for what they are doing. This applies to you and me, and it also applies to Captain Rawat. If someone is exploiting and abusing someone else, it's the exploited who need help first.

Whatever course of action he feels like taking, he'll get great support from those around him. But what does he do? Retreats further into his Malibu bunker and gets the executive jet catalogue out.

It's time he grew up. He can't pretend to be God Almighty all his life. He's not stupid. He can see the magic doesn't work. He can see the declining numbers. He's aware of the declining income.

Aw, fuck him.

When did you get out of the cult a0aji? Are you a recent exit? What kicked you through the door?

Anth, you may make one phone call.


---

I exited about six months after ex-premie.org site went online --
in early spring of that year. I know because I used to search the
engines for 'Maharaji' and other colorful cult lingo, and there
were almost no web sites about this, before then. One day, there
was. I came. I saw. Burke was here, and as he is well-known to
me, personally, I knew the jig was up -- Burke was a touch-stone
for me. I knew he had to know things. I sat up and paid strict
attention.

Thanks for asking!

a0aji

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 09:03:56 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: and_on_anand@yahoo.com
To: a0aji
Subject: Re: The Other Side.
Message:
Which is, by the way, one of the reasons I finally decided to out
myself and use my real name: Chris Hafey. I don't know that I ever
ushered anyone into the cult (and this was a great sorrow for me,
at the time). Perhaps I can still score! Perhaps my exit, visible,
will accidentally touch something in someone who knew me.

Then again, it could simply confirm me a bongo to them! ;)

We had a lot of fun with our bongos -- they were like strays.
It was nice feeding them and petting them. It prepared me
for later life, when I spent a lot of time eating in soup
kitchens -- I was used to people who couldn't begin to dress
and look the part of a paying citizen.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 06:53:38 (EDT)
From: annie
Email: None
To: a0aji
Subject: Re: Bhole Ji == deer-in-the-headlights look
Message:
'So, you know -- if you weren't around in the mid '70's,
hitch-hiking across America and Europe following your guru,
you can't touch what I went through. You can't even begin to

I never said I was touching on it or even beginning to. I'm wise enough to know that much!!

'Please. Whatever else, don't tell us you know things unless you
are willing to talk about it all.

HU!!??????????????????????????????
I must have missed something!!
AND SO!!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 04:45:31 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: a0aji
Subject: Thanks, aOaji, for putting the mindfuck in
Message:
perspective. Yes, Pimple Rawat was seriously mindfucked by his megalomaniacal, drunken, ambitious, greedy father. I really think he believes his dead dad is god and he has to obey him and probably prays to him. He certainly invokes him constantly in his speeches. He's made his millions and would like to retire and be a playboy but something is pushing him on. Agya from his dead master?

Also it seems to be important to remind people that this alcoholic, blonde-addicted, simpleton in Malibu was once the Lord of the Universe to whom we surrendered our souls. The current premies of course are in complete denial of this.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 20:55:24 (EDT)
From: BTDT
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: Thanks, aOaji, for putting the mindfuck in
Message:
Do you know much about M's father? I learned of M having a step mother and step sister just recently. It surprised me because I never heard him mention them and I came around in 1974. Was he behaving the same way M is with all the drinking, women, etc? I remember that movie shown at Kissemee (sp)with Shri Hans and M saying for us to witness his divinity. He hit a lot of people with his cane/stick and they were supposedly blissed out from it....said M.
I just wondered if that step mothered justified the Monica L. thing in this family's mind.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 21:13:04 (EDT)
From: Francesca :C)
Email: None
To: BTDT
Subject: Mata Ji was Shri Hans 'consort'
Message:
High holy people in some other cultures don't need to get married. Their spiritual female counterparts outside of matrimony are called 'consorts.' Usually, because they are so high and holy, their sexual unions are supposed to be high and holy also, to match everything else they do. Of course, not everyone, even in the given cuture, accepts that, and some are treated as divine sluts.

Years ago in 1973 there was a picture of Shri Hans' 'old' family at the San Francisco ashram on Lawton Street. I remember I asked who those 'people' were as an aspirant. Shri Hans' previous wife or consort, I forget which, did not bear Shri Hans any sons. I forgot how many daughters he had, so Shri Hans took Mata Ji as a consort in order to have some sons. Somehow this was a spiritual necessity, and she was seen as the 'Divine Mother.' I forget the explanation du jour, but since at the time we considered M to be the Lord of the Universe, so it was meant to be. I probably didn't think to see it as sexist at the time, because M was 'the one.'

Nice sexist religion, eh?

Francesca

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 05:06:46 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Francesca :C)
Subject: Polygamy is legal In India
Message:
Because of Muslims being allowed to have four wives, polygamy is legal. Mrs Singh Rawat the First was as old as Hans but only bore a daughter. Hans' guru told him to marry Mata Ji (supposedly in order to have sons) who was only 15 at the time. Hans was nearly forty. There are no sex scandals involving Hans except homosex scandals with one of his gurus. However it was said that he slipped in the shower while drunk and died that way. He was married to both at the same time and they both outlived him.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Aug 21, 2001 at 04:13:12 (EDT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: hansji
Message:
Interesting stuff Pat. New to me.

I distinctly remember reading in And It is Divine that hanji was doing a statsang tour and a man came up to hans and had a picture of him(hans) drawn by his daughter, The man said that his daughter had drawn the picture after a dream abou the man she was to marry.
So, apparantly on the basis of this, hans married 'mataji'.

all the best
Jethro

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 13:55:03 (EDT)
From: BTDT
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: Polygamy is legal In India
Message:
One of his guru's? Hans slipped in the shower and died? I'm lost in this soap opera.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 13:55:02 (EDT)
From: BTDT
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: Polygamy is legal In India
Message:
One of his guru's? Hans slipped in the shower and died? I'm lost in this soap opera.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 14:18:32 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: BTDT
Subject: The soap opera gets better, Been
Message:
Yes, Hans had several gurus none of whom would annoint him as their successor because of his megalomania.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Aug 21, 2001 at 00:57:06 (EDT)
From: BTDT
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: The soap opera gets better, Been
Message:
Don't stop! Do go on. So Hans' perfect Master listed on M's site is just one of many? Not for real? Will the madness never end?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 22:26:39 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: a0aji
Subject: Bhole Ji == deer-in-the-headlights look [nt]
Message:

[ And On Anand Ji's 1978 Photos ]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 22:23:29 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: a0aji
Subject: Bhole Ji == deer-in-the-headlights look [nt]
Message:

[ Graphic Link ]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 21:03:26 (EDT)
From: Silvia
Email: None
To: Annie
Subject: Premie syndrome
Message:
Sorry for getting in the middle. Why ask what is he on? Are YOU okay? You want to pick a fight? do it.

Can it be that some of us have the right to want a forum for ex-premies? Can be very nice for those like me who want to talk and discuss whatever, or read either to heal, or to work out our belief system.

I think there should be many forums. Maybe you Ann can make one TO HELP PREMIES AND ASPIRANTS.

In my opinion an ex-premie forum is not for premies to come and insult us, as often happens here. If premies need therapy they should get it, really. It is healthy. It is a fact that maharaji screws up people's mind. There is plenty of proof of that.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 07:18:33 (EDT)
From: Annie
Email: None
To: Silvia
Subject: Re: Premie syndrome
Message:
Sorry for getting in the middle. Why ask what is he on? Are YOU okay? You want to pick a fight? do it.

Can it be that some of us have the right to want a forum for ex-premies? Can be very nice for those like me who want to talk and discuss whatever, or read either to heal, or to work out our belief system.

I think there should be many forums. Maybe you Ann can make one TO HELP PREMIES AND ASPIRANTS.

In my opinion an ex-premie forum is not for premies to come and insult us, as often happens here. If premies need therapy they should get it, really. It is healthy. It is a fact that maharaji screws up people's mind. There is plenty of proof of that.


---

'Are YOU okay? You want to pick a fight? do it.
......................................................................

No don't want to pick a fight, just tired and have little patience for this kind of attitude - thats all.
......................................................................
Oh and I'm pretty fine, dealing with my little dose of head fuck from the 'm' experience, BUT GETTING ON WITH MY LIFE ALSO, IN THE MOST POSITIVE WAY I CAN MANAGE JUST NOW.
.......................................................................
'In my opinion an ex-premie forum is not for premies to come and insult us, as often happens here.'
........................................................................
I never said it was ok!!
.......................................................................
'I think there should be many forums. Maybe you Ann can make one TO HELP PREMIES AND ASPIRANTS.'
.......................................................................
My names not Ann, and why would I want to do that? I already stated (with words to the effect) that I wasn't playing saviour, I'm not that fanatical!
.......................................................................
This place has helped me alot, helped me to see what's really been going on and also to see how I really DON'T want to BE about it all.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 08:37:26 (EDT)
From: Silvia
Email: None
To: Annie
Subject: Re: Premie syndrome
Message:
Best wishes.

Curious, for how many years were you are a premie? When did you left?

I became very, very angry when I discovered maharaji was fake.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 08:49:59 (EDT)
From: Annie
Email: None
To: Silvia
Subject: Just out!
Message:
I never made premie-dom as I had too many problems with the Master thing. However I was taken by the whole thing for 10 years, first when I was 19, I decided that 'K' was the next step for me. Had kids, still being reminded that 'K' was where it was at, and lately in the past 8 months been intensely 'following'. Been to pre-'K' selection etc. and the Nottingham event recently. Thats what did it. The new videos of 'M' and his kids......yuk!! He showed his true slimey-ness!!
So I left the cult behind me only a few weeks ago and have been using this forum and EPO to keep my head together. Oh and gather info. for when my friends try to do their thing and talk me back!!

Annie

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 09:12:54 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: Annie
Subject: Re: Just out!
Message:
I never made premie-dom as I had too many problems with the Master thing. However I was taken by the whole thing for 10 years, first when I was 19, I decided that 'K' was the next step for me. Had kids, still being reminded that 'K' was where it was at, and lately in the past 8 months been intensely 'following'. Been to pre-'K' selection etc. and the Nottingham event recently. Thats what did it. The new videos of 'M' and his kids......yuk!! He showed his true slimey-ness!!
So I left the cult behind me only a few weeks ago and have been using this forum and EPO to keep my head together. Oh and gather info. for when my friends try to do their thing and talk me back!!

Annie


---

Keep coming.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 09:21:57 (EDT)
From: annie
Email: None
To: a0aji
Subject: Re: Just out!
Message:
I will keep visiting, I can't help it now. It's a bit annoying really!
I end up spending too much time here, but It's early days still.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 09:31:50 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: annie
Subject: Re: Just out!
Message:
I will keep visiting, I can't help it now. It's a bit annoying really!
I end up spending too much time here, but It's early days still.


---

That's equally true about animated discussion forums anywhere
on the Internet, and is not at all unique to discussions that
have anything to do with ... the subject matter of this Forum.

Life's great.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 09:37:10 (EDT)
From: annie
Email: None
To: a0aji
Subject: Re: Just out!
Message:
I agree life is GREAT.
I called this out to a neighbour yesterday after being soaked in unexpected heavy rain, mainly by the wave caused by a passing car!!
It was SO totally funny, I couldn't even walk properly as I was wearing sandals and my feet were just sliding in them.....should have taken them off!!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 09:40:58 (EDT)
From: Annie
Email: None
To: annie
Subject: I'm off now
Message:
That has to be enough now or I'll be here all day!!
The children need me!!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 19:26:24 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Annie
Subject: Re: AND YES!!
Message:
Annie, I don't know if A0aji is On anything. It sounds like he's just asking a question. Thought provoking questions. This is good for people to lurk, it gives them something to think about.

When I first arrived here, the questions and statements sounded harsher to me than they do now.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 18:50:54 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: a0aji
Subject: question has inherent flaws
Message:
Depends.

Do I want to save premies? NO

Would I like to save premies? Yes

It's not a goal, it is a benefit.

I don't give a shit about one way or the other about the premies that adamantly contribute to hostile posting, fearfully trying to maintain their premie-world, their privy status (darshan-wise or financially). The ones who come here to debunk the Jagdeo issue are the worse and I want to see them publically humiliated. Just being honest.

However, people with Knowledge who have been following Maha come by and lurk or post do not deserve to enter a zone of dissension. Like myself, they may have inadvertently walked, or perhaps they were dissuaded to come here believing that we are all a bunch of disillusioned rebels hellbent on destructing a good thing.

I do not consider them to be classified the same. Perhaps a new term would suffice to rectify this semantic problem. It bothers me to slur 'premies' when I know some of my 'friends' are out there.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 19:11:07 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: nice post deborah [nt]
Message:
[nt]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 18:47:49 (EDT)
From: annie
Email: None
To: a0aji
Subject: such bitterness it seems!!
Message:
I realise that the experience must have really screwed alot of people up big-time, BUT bitterness and hatred .....it just aint the way!!!
I thought we were supposed to be more intelligent than this ........indulging in such base, unhealthy, self-detrimental emotions, to this degree .

A

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 18:26:56 (EDT)
From: Silvia
Email: None
To: a0aji
Subject: I want to bring him down
Message:
My primary goal! How can we do that?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 15:04:39 (EDT)
From: Annie
Email: None
To: All
Subject: the'lord of the universe stuff'
Message:
there are conflicting views on the above topic, people here say that rawat claimed to be 'the lord of the universe' others say it was the early toe kissing premie's that spread the word and that rawat never actually made these claims. Now I am not trading one load of brainwashing for another, please point me in the direction of the truth.......It must be concrete please not just what so and so said!! (ie name of tapes and/or videos where he has made these claims) thanks

Annie

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 17:24:10 (EDT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Annie
Subject: It isn't even close
Message:
Read the EPO website and you will find that Maharaji referred to himself as the superior power in person, gave a number of speaches in which he equiated himself with Jesus Christ, Krishna and Buddha, all believed to be the incarnations of God in their times, and even said they revealed the same knowledge he did. He also dressed up like Krishna on many occasions.

Moreover, Maharaji WROTE the new intro to Arti in which he is described as THE SUPERIOR POWER IN PERSON.

More than that, he sat on a stage with LORD OF THE UNIVERSE as a banner hanging over his head. He sat on many, many occasions and had us sing both ARTI, which unabashedly refers to him as GOD, and the SONG, LORD OF THE UNIVERSE to him without lifting one chubby finger to correct anything that was incorrect about any of that.

But read the EPO website, especially the DLM Papers section. It's all clear from that.

Any suggestion that Maharaji didn't promote, encourage, and actually create the beliefs that he was Lord of the Universe, and the incarnation of God is rank revisionism and a lie.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 18:38:03 (EDT)
From: annie
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: It isn't even close
Message:
I really don't mean to get anyone's goat on this, it's just that I simply don't know what went on back then. Of course I can figure alot from the EPO but there is SO much stuff to get through. I personally feel most of the info to be true but also feel more guarded, I'm sure you understand. So I was hoping to somehow get hold of the evidence on tape cassete/video so I can answer my friends husband who is on the edge (my friend is premie, he is not yet) with complete conviction that yes it was 'm' not just the toe-kissing premie's that made the claim's he was god-like/saviour/lord of the universe etc.
He's an inteligent man who has been anti 'm' for a long time but now has been suckered-in, it's all around him!!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 21:14:09 (EDT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: annie
Subject: Suggestion
Message:
You didn't get my goat; but there area lot of PWKs who lie about this. Get a copy of the Lord of the Universe video. It's pretty clear in there. I have a copy I could loan you, or you can order it from Amazon.com. Just click under 'video' and search for 'Lord of the Universe.' It's real eye-opener. It clearly shows Maharaji playing god.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 16:05:21 (EDT)
From: swami j. suchabanana
Email: None
To: Annie
Subject: God/savior: facts vs. revisionism
Message:
What about Maharaji's and Elan Vital's present claims that he never said he was god or a savior?

Exhibit A: [from the Elan Vital website]

'Did Maharaji ever say he was God?
No, Maharaji never at any time claimed to be God. As an Indian national, when Maharaji first started teaching in the west when he was 13 years old, he used many examples from eastern traditions which demonstrated that a student seeking fulfillment could do so by choosing to follow the teachings of a guru or master. As he matured he realized that western traditions put a very different emphasis on the idea of guru and wrongly attributed messianic labels in this process. He changed his language to use the term master only and gradually removed all Indian associations from his teaching, as this is not a path just for Indians but is something that is available for anyone regardless of color, religion or race. It is acknowledged that many people at the time were already looking for a messianic type figure. That Maharaji was not such a figure disappointed some people.'

'He recollects: 'I remember coming to the West and talking to
people. Some had the idea that once you attained this ‘high’ state of being, you would become super-human. You would be in a perpetual state of peace with no confusion in your life, ever. Even at my very young age, I understood that this was not the way it was supposed to be.''

Please evaluate the following official historical Guru Maharaj ji [aka Prem Rawat aka Maharaji aka Lord of the Universe aka Balyogeshwar (born living god of the yogis)] and other authorized cult/church statements and records. Note the implications, claims, and any concepts found therein, and compare/contrast with any evidence of inconsistency or inaccuracy with the present official authorized portrayal and representations of Prem Rawat by EVI [Elan Vital] and those made by himself.

Exhibit B: [from official Maharaji cult archives]

'Who is Guru Maharaj ji?' The 'authentic authorized story':
'Why do more than six million people around the world claim he is the greatest incarnation of God that ever trod the face of this planet? Why do Christian priests claim that he has taught them the way to love? Why do Hindus refer to him as the Swan Avatar?'
-- DLM/EVI, Bantam Books, 1973

'God is the same, but now we look for Him to come in a new way, to give His Knowledge. Jesus gave this Knowledge, Krishna gave this Knowledge, but now we must look again for a new Master to show us the light. I have not come to establish a new religion or sect, but I have come to give you Knowledge...' --Maharaji

...'they expect God Himself to come, they pray for it, they ask for it, they announce about it, but when He comes they fail to recognize Him. And not recognizing Him is His physical form, they cannot recognize him within themselves.' -- Maharaji

...'whenever he comes to the physical world, the Perfect Master has to tolerate many difficulties.' - Maharaji

'We have to find this Word by a teacher, a guide. A guide who is perfect, and who can teach this perfect Knowledge to us. A perfect guide can guide us. You need a burning lamp to light other lamps. So, in the same way you need an enlightened Perfect Master to make you enlightened and perfect also. IF THE MASTER HIMSELF IS NOT PERFECT, HOW CAN HE MAKE YOU PERFECT? YOU NEED A PERFECT Master.' -Maharaji

'when Satguru comes... He is perfect, He was perfect, and He will be perfect... A devotee is sitting in America, Guru is sitting in India, but both have a very powerful connection...So, remember. We have to find that God, that person who is perfect... So, remember: we are part of Him who has manifested Himself as a Guru and who has come into this earth, and now we have to be One with Him. We have to completely merge and make our souls one with Him because He is perfect, and once we merge with Him we will also be perfect.' - aka Guru Maharaj ji [aka Maharaji], 15 years old, 1973 Shri Hans Productions.

Peace and lentils,

da lil' swami

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 15:52:13 (EDT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Annie
Subject: Have a look here
Message:
All these quotes are taken from official Divine Light Mission/Elan Vital publications. In some of these quotes he talks about Guru Maharaj Ji in the third person, but not always:-)

Those speeches where he was the most strong and clear about him being something divine and special were my favourites in reinforcing my devotion to him. So I am particularly concerned that any attempt to say he didn't make these claims is shown to be a lie.

John.
[ Maharaji's quotes ]

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 15:13:23 (EDT)
From: BeenThereDoneThat
Email: None
To: Annie
Subject: Re: the'lord of the universe stuff'
Message:
Does Hindi premies singing 'You are the superior power in person, I bow down before such a wonderful lord' via Arti this past Sunday at the event Maharaji attended in LA qualify? Wait, I'll go raid my drawer full of old stuff. I remember something about him saying like ' you people were not here when Christ was here but not to worry, cuz Maharaji's here now'. See here's the crux of the whole thing, many people, including myself, only received knowledge and followed him for more than half their lives because he was supposed to be that superiour power in person, not because it was some new Indian trip.

I'll be back, I've got that stuff somewhere. Even some old tapes I never bothered to send in.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 15:55:33 (EDT)
From: BeenThereDoneThat
Email: None
To: BeenThereDoneThat
Subject: Re: the'lord of the universe stuff'
Message:
Half of it survived a flood in the midwest....
It says this was on tape from India to London premies, March 1971

Dear premies of London, you all have been away from the spiritual thing for many, many years, and you are the first ones to come to enter the holy and spiritual world now for many, many years.

Jesus came in his time, but you people were very sorry, and we people were very sorry, that we were not there at the time when Jesis came. So that means we had to miss that occasion. And we know that God has made everybody equal, so He has made every occasion for every man equal. He even exists in this Kaliyuga, or this present moment, to tell us the Holy Name. Otherwise we can't live in this world.

There is an immortal Father, and a mortal father. That immortal Father we have to know. Because when we are old, we'll have to take a stick in our hand and go. The stick can be broken, and we may fall again. But there should be an immortal stick in our hand which will never, never break, and we can go along in our life with that immortal stick. So it is only the Guru who is our guide. Catch his shoulder, and he will take you to that point where-when we go there,
nobody can come back from there. So, catch the shoulders of Guru and never leave them, for he will take you to that place where there complete happiness, calmness, Peace.
__________
And so on and so forth. This is what I personally don't understand from pwk and M 's attitude about people here on this site. Coming to terms with the situations he has created is incredibly difficult. Does anyone think someone would be happy finding out the person who they have believed heart and soul in maybe isn't what was portrayed to be? This isn't easy facing all this, but at least people here face it. I'm just waiting for Maharaji and pwk's to face this squarely.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 16:59:23 (EDT)
From: ggg
Email: None
To: BeenThereDoneThat
Subject: Blimey . . .
Message:
. . . that rang a bell, I think it was the first time I heard squeakyboy!!!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 16:11:25 (EDT)
From: such
Email: None
To: BeenThereDoneThat
Subject: just, don't hold your breath!
Message:
'I'm just waiting for Maharaji and pwk's to face this squarely.'

lots of pwk's already Are facing it, but m. -- well, dat's another story! methinks he doesn't want to lose da mega-perks of da magic carpet ride.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 19:01:28 (EDT)
From: BTDT
Email: None
To: such
Subject: Re: just, don't hold your breath!
Message:
Wishful thinking......breathe in breathe out ......I realize I'm always a sucker for people who have done particularly nasty things to face the music. I don't know why I have this simplistic hope that the goodness of the individual will win. To each his/her own, I guess. Still saddens me. Must be the Aquarian that I am. You know, Age of Aguarious and all that! Naive
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 12:56:29 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: All
Subject: R2 are you there? Over.
Message:
R2,

I noticed you posting below. I'm sorry i had to rush off in the middle of our conversation a couple of weeks ago, about 'Perfect Masters' and mythological characters.

The way we left it, I recall, was you said there were 'millions of references' to 'knowledge' in the scriptures. I strongly disputed this and asked you to quote some of them.

You said you'd go and look. Did you find anything?

Also, I asked you if you believed Mary was a virgin when she gave birth to Jesus.

Hope all is well outside your monitor.

Anth Zen Flesh Zen Bones.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 11:32:19 (EDT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Internet explorer script error...?
Message:
Does anyone know what this refers to?

And how I can get this gray box from popping up every time I click on something?

Thanks

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 22:09:50 (EDT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: Re: Internet explorer script error...?
Message:
a script being run on the page that u are viewing. Da script is not getting executed properly so da error message comes up. Da script could have an error. Am surprised that u will get such an error with IE cause it understands JavaScript [isn't bill gates clever]. Your oder problem could be that IE got corrupted for some reason or another and you may have to reinstall it. Switching to netscape is not a solution, but allah know better:)
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 14:59:09 (EDT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: Re: Internet explorer script error...?
Message:
It means you are using Microsoft Internet Explorer and is a warning that you should switch to Netscape immediately! BTW I am using Netscape and have no problems. Interesting isn't it that two Microsoft products can't talk to each other properly!

John.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 13:38:58 (EDT)
From: dv
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: Me too (nt)
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 12:20:43 (EDT)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: me too ! [nt]
Message:
[nt]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 12:18:13 (EDT)
From: Mr. Mind
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: Re: Internet explorer script error...?
Message:
I'm getting it too Today>>

Just on this forum, AG and the cult forum

all hotboards...

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 13:08:52 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: Mr. Mind
Subject: Re: Internet explorer script error...?
Message:
I'm getting it too Today>>

Just on this forum, AG and the cult forum

all hotboards...


---

I'm not having any problem at all with Hotboards today. I'm using
Mozilla 0.9.2 under X11 and Linux.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index