Ex-Premie Forum 7 Archive
From: Aug 27, 2001 To: Sep 01, 2001 Page: 2 of: 5


Passing Through -:- What's the problem? -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 18:36:43 (EDT)
__ janet -:- for the umpteenth time-- -:- Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 04:24:36 (EDT)
__ __ Pat:C) -:- Amen. Nicely put Janet Bai [nt] -:- Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 05:01:47 (EDT)
__ [Blank] -:- The difference is that EPO's not anonymous! -:- Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 01:08:56 (EDT)
__ SC -:- PT, The problem is... -:- Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 00:38:33 (EDT)
__ __ Silvia -:- Who are those 3 sheep? -:- Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 19:15:27 (EDT)
__ __ Silvia -:- Who are those 3 sheep? -:- Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 19:15:12 (EDT)
__ __ __ SC -:- Silvia darling? -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 01:06:49 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- How did Tonette's message appear here? -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 05:31:05 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- What on earth are turbinates? -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 05:18:16 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Tonette -:- Located in the nose -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 05:43:59 (EDT)
__ __ Pat:C) -:- You're such a phoney David R. [nt] -:- Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 05:03:41 (EDT)
__ bill-geeze pt, -:- why say dumb things? [nt] -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 20:07:31 (EDT)
__ __ such -:- it's just ole pissin' through again... [nt] -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 20:27:10 (EDT)
__ Pat:C) -:- Difference between me and Cacaraji -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 19:34:24 (EDT)
__ Jim -:- What's the problem? -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 19:04:26 (EDT)
__ __ Pat:C) -:- Jim, read your email asap [nt] -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 19:48:39 (EDT)
__ Nigel -:- Yes, but you wouldn't understand.. -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 18:58:23 (EDT)
__ __ Passing Through -:- No to Nigel (nt) -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 19:24:58 (EDT)
__ Deborah -:- Don't answer this asshole ~) [nt] -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 18:44:05 (EDT)
__ __ Silvia -:- asshole ~) Simply said -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 20:07:31 (EDT)
__ __ __ Deborah -:- Re: asshole }) Simply said -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 20:29:25 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Silvia -:- }) Were you unblocked at LG? -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 20:49:33 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Deborah -:- Re: }) What do you mean unblocked -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 20:55:47 (EDT)

STATEMENT BY VICTIMS -:- ATTACKED BY THE MAHARAJI CULT -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 18:01:44 (EDT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- What's going to be their next step? -:- Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 09:04:02 (EDT)
__ __ One of the Victims -:- Next Step -:- Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 11:52:19 (EDT)
__ __ __ michael donner -:- Re: Next Step -:- Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 12:14:38 (EDT)
__ __ TEETH -:- I'm saying for long -:- Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 09:29:52 (EDT)
__ __ __ Deborah -:- Agreed -:- Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 15:19:43 (EDT)
__ janet -:- Re:how bout media dissemination?? -:- Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 04:38:56 (EDT)
__ __ Pat:C) -:- We can't afford a billboard, Janet. -:- Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 05:08:56 (EDT)
__ __ __ janet -:- maybe we can get a sponsor -:- Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 05:21:04 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Silvia -:- Re: maybe we can get a sponsor -:- Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 09:31:39 (EDT)
__ Susan -:- excellent letter all of you (nt) -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 23:28:24 (EDT)
__ __ ggg -:- Power to the people! nt -:- Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 03:54:28 (EDT)
__ Cedron -:- The king -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 22:08:07 (EDT)
__ da lil' swami suchabanana -:- Power to da peoples,right on! -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 20:21:14 (EDT)
__ bill-wonder how they will respond -:- to 'phase one' -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 20:10:26 (EDT)
__ Pat:C) -:- Thanks, Joe -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 19:29:22 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Stoops the Janitor -:- Re: FA some help please -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 23:14:00 (EDT)
__ Deborah -:- What about press release Aug 27th -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 18:55:48 (EDT)
__ __ One of the victims -:- It's August 23 Press Release -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 19:12:33 (EDT)
__ Nigel -:- In an eggshell. Superb. -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 18:30:45 (EDT)
__ JHB -:- Re: ATTACKED BY THE MAHARAJI CULT -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 18:17:06 (EDT)
__ __ Cynthia -:- Superb! -:- Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 12:12:11 (EDT)
__ __ such -:- hey, da famous 12 apostates! -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 20:23:44 (EDT)
__ __ __ Teeth -:- Re: hey, da famous 12 apostates! -:- Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 19:27:29 (EDT)
__ Francesca -:- BRAVO!!! and ***BEST OF FORUM*** [nt] -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 18:15:40 (EDT)

Pooper Scooper b) -:- Please ave all posts from cultweasel stalkers -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 15:10:19 (EDT)
__ Mail person -:- Here is one -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 17:13:49 (EDT)
__ Nigel -:- One problem, Pat... -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 15:50:30 (EDT)
__ __ Pat:C) -:- Merde! -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 17:02:54 (EDT)
__ __ __ such -:- mer d'ici! [nt] -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 20:12:56 (EDT)

gerry -:- Rawat: Insidious and Relentless -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 13:00:11 (EDT)
__ Gregg -:- Our Beloved non-Leader -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 15:49:23 (EDT)
__ __ such -:- F u kin remember da early daze,u weren't thar!hoho [nt] -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 20:08:24 (EDT)
__ such -:- Prem - what a ham! -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 13:54:00 (EDT)
__ __ such -:- link: Prem - what a ham! -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 13:58:30 (EDT)
__ __ __ such -:- Service Opportunities! -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 15:06:41 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Oh That's Very Funny! -:- Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 11:26:10 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ such -:- A Modern Premie Diet-Book! -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 15:08:18 (EDT)
__ __ __ Cynthia -:- I cancelled my subscription to EV Newsletter -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 14:25:53 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ janet -:- Re: I cancelled my subscription to EV Newsletter -:- Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 04:52:12 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ such -:- Prem Spam is a terrible thing to have [nt] -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 14:46:43 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ ggg -:- Thank you . . . -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 15:35:04 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ such -:- without levity, no levitation. haha -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 19:44:37 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ ggg -:- Re: without levity, no levitation. haha -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 20:14:54 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ such -:- you gotta cig, luv? [nt] -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 20:29:27 (EDT)

salam -:- hey cacas -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 10:47:10 (EDT)
__ salsa -:- caca tactic -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 17:23:39 (EDT)
__ __ such -:- but they tell me that caca -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 20:00:16 (EDT)
__ __ __ Silvia -:- OT, sort of -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 20:11:19 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ such -:- just doin' da 'New Math' -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 21:47:25 (EDT)

Reno Renegade -:- CAC Perps -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 09:50:27 (EDT)
__ witch -:- Re: CAC Perps -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 21:28:22 (EDT)
__ Nigel -:- Why are people believing this?!! -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 15:37:09 (EDT)
__ __ Jim -:- Read it again, Nige -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 19:10:04 (EDT)
__ __ __ Reno Renegade -:- Re: Read it again, Nige -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 19:34:33 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Joe -:- What was his agya? -:- Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 14:51:53 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ witch -:- Valerio Pascotto -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 21:44:17 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ btdt -:- Re: Valerio Pascotto -:- Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 11:16:28 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ btdt -:- Re: Valerio Pascotto -:- Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 11:16:27 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ btdt -:- Re: Valerio Pascotto -:- Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 11:16:20 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ oops -:- sorry (nt) -:- Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 11:22:28 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ janet -:- that's a loss of license rite there -:- Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 05:06:50 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Furthermore -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 20:02:10 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Re: Read it again, Nige -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 19:36:38 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Nige -:- 'not too dissimilar from...' -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 20:42:18 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Hey, Nige, check YOUR email -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 20:48:36 (EDT)
__ __ Nigel -:- Also... -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 18:52:57 (EDT)
__ __ Pat:C) -:- Also ELK ''founders' are frontmen -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 15:42:56 (EDT)
__ __ __ janet -:- Re: Also ELK ''founders' are frontmen -:- Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 05:18:22 (EDT)
__ Cynthia -:- Maharaji ''Biographers?'... -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 15:05:49 (EDT)
__ __ Biography Names: -:- Biography of a Yogurt? -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 19:34:35 (EDT)
__ __ __ How about -:- My Six Chins? -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 19:35:44 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ I'm not fat ! -:- Just short for my width ! nt -:- Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 01:59:06 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Or -:- When 10 Rolls Just Aren't Enough -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 19:38:11 (EDT)
__ JHB -:- ELK Founders -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 14:27:34 (EDT)
__ __ cq -:- ELK revisionists more like -:- Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 08:39:16 (EDT)
__ Pat:C) -:- Rawat can't stop the church lady gossip -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 14:15:39 (EDT)
__ Joe -:- Details, PLEASE -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 11:48:58 (EDT)
__ Jim -:- That's amazing -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 11:32:07 (EDT)
__ Carl -:- It figures. -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 10:37:19 (EDT)
__ Salam -:- really -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 10:36:10 (EDT)
__ __ Cynthia -:- Maharaji Loves Secrets... -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 14:36:25 (EDT)
__ __ Wow!! You guys got -:- CyberStalking Prashad. Impressive -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 12:36:00 (EDT)
__ __ __ Double Agent -:- Maharji's covert operations -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 13:22:58 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Julian -:- How can any premie follow this monster? -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 13:56:31 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ dogweasel -:- M tells them not to listen... -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 14:37:40 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ such -:- hey, I got a dogwhistle -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 20:02:46 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Elan Vital -:- Right now, we think about 34... -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 14:09:56 (EDT)

From harry on Lifes Grate -:- Hey Jim and Joe argue with this -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 04:54:33 (EDT)
__ janet -:- thanks, i think i will. -:- Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 06:59:51 (EDT)
__ suchabanana -:- for Harry:start with 'Life With Knowledge' -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 13:33:20 (EDT)
__ __ btdt -:- Re: for Harry:start with 'Life With Knowledge' -:- Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 02:38:00 (EDT)
__ suchabanana -:- my reply to hairball -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 12:23:53 (EDT)
__ Gregg -:- The Divine Mr. M. -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 09:40:47 (EDT)
__ __ Dirk -:- Re: The Divine Mr. M. -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 13:28:48 (EDT)
__ __ __ janet -:- a bastard son of his is.. -:- Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 07:16:02 (EDT)
__ __ __ Steve -:- Yoganada -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 15:13:09 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ janet -:- Re: Yogananda and the DNA -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 04:45:35 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Dirk -:- Re: Yogananda and Celibacy -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 15:48:10 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Steve -:- Re: Yogananda and Celibacy -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 17:58:23 (EDT)
__ Cynthia -:- From Harry on Lifes(sic) Grate -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 09:36:48 (EDT)
__ __ such -:- miragey on marriage: -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 13:16:00 (EDT)
__ Bob -:- Re: Hey Jim and Joe argue with this -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 08:15:23 (EDT)
__ Carl -:- Good points, Harry. However . . . -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 07:56:23 (EDT)
__ thatswhy -:- he gagged prems -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 05:54:04 (EDT)
__ __ ggg -:- You just don't get it . . . -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 06:33:23 (EDT)

Mummiji -:- Testing for Saucy ... (nt) -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 00:18:43 (EDT)
__ saucy -:- yah yah -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 01:19:42 (EDT)
__ __ Mummiji -:- Sorry, Saucy, did I embarrass you? -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 12:27:12 (EDT)

RichMandrake -:- CHRIS DICKEY DELETED THIS FROM LG -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 00:03:34 (EDT)
__ XXX -:- Re-formatted version of CHRIS DICKEY DELETE -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 19:14:11 (EDT)
__ Deborah -:- Another 'Lies Great' conspiracy -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 19:11:55 (EDT)
__ michael donner -:- Re: CHRIS DICKEY DELETED THIS FROM LG -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 10:53:04 (EDT)
__ Nigel -:- Great post, Richard, and.. -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 02:13:59 (EDT)
__ Marianne -:- Re: CHRIS DICKEY DELETED THIS FROM LG -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 00:38:20 (EDT)
__ __ RichMandrake -:- This Time Chris left it Up... -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 02:38:31 (EDT)
__ __ __ Deborha -:- Don't feel bad for feeling bad :( -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 19:23:27 (EDT)
__ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Hey Rich, my anger lasted for -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 04:17:30 (EDT)


Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 18:36:43 (EDT)
From: Passing Through
Email: None
To: All
Subject: What's the problem?
Message:
Dear Forum,
This web site and the EPO were formed with the express intention of criticizing and damaging Maharaji.
In that time you have-
published details of his private life
published details of his financial situation published the registration details of his house, the plane he flies, his boat etc.
claimed he harbored a pedophile, abused and ripped of his students etc.
encouraged people to disrupt his meetings, intimidate his students etc
and approached the media to broadcast your views.
Now someone has decided to do the same to you.
What's the problem?
Is there any difference between the actions of CAC and the actions of the EPO and Forum?
PT
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Date: Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 04:24:36 (EDT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Passing Through
Subject: for the umpteenth time--
Message:
PT
you seem to have completely missed the real history of why and how the EPO site was born. it didnt start out with the aim of defaming or hurting maharaji. it started as one person, who had been a premie many years ago, thinking about the friends they had made whe they were in the ashram or the communities, and wondering if they could locate those people again, and the idea occurred to them of putting up a webpage on the internet simply hoping that maybe other onetime premies would find it and come pop in to talk about the old days.
tearing down Maharaji wasn't the agenda. the agenda was finding old friends and talking about the old times. heart to heart. friend to friend.

and others found the site and came over to talk about how it was.
of course there was stuff they wanted to bring up from their time in it. thats what people do when they get back in touch and talk about their common past.
and stuff came out. things they knew, things they did, heard, knew or knew about, were shared.
you can't keep anything concealed forever. many try. it never works.
you can't censor old friends from chatting to each other! too bad if maharaji doesnt like it! he's got a problem with it. we don't.
the stuff that got put up that was bad for him was researched, and the proof found, that showed the stories were true. theyre all public record.
this is the internet age, pal. we arent making this stuff up. you keep forgetting, there are a hell of a lot of ex's here who were right at the top, who were taking orders dierectly from maharaji, to do exactly what he ordered them to. donner. dettmers.
IHQ premies on the 5th floor offices of the kittredge building in denver. these poeple arent making it up and speculating idly. they were there! they carried it out!

please get it straight in your head PT? please? for the umpteenth time--this site is not for maharaji or some evil agenda. it was put up by someone who had been a premie and missed the people they knew when they were one. it was found by others of like experience. they traded war stories. and here we are.

the agenda is to get together and tell each other what we really feel now and felt about then.

if thats a threat, then the man it threatens is one sick individual.
as are the CACA force. they dont get it.

if they really did, if they really mirrored EPO the way it organically happened, they would have to start by being devotees of pat and dave and jim and everyone else, and then grown disaffected with it and drifted to doing other things, issed the friends they made in those old days, and put up a page on the web hoping to fnd them again and talk about it all. and their website would have had genuine dialog online, freely and candidly, informally discussing things they had learned about the various people they had followed. and facts would have come out from net dearches and first person witnesses, and THAT would have been the content of the page.
THAT is waht we have done on EPO. Gotten together and compared memories and notes and findings.

We're doing it for our mental and emotional health, and whatever else comes of it it secondary.

Get that point straight, PT. We are doing it for our health. Ours.
You are irrelevant --unless you wanna join us and compare notes and feelings and memories, in an effort to piece together what happened to us and everyone else we knew who was in it.

That's ALL it's about.
If hearing us talk the truth about what we went thru makes you crazy, you need to look at that.
That's not a healthy or normal reaction to listening to people share their lives.

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Date: Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 05:01:47 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Amen. Nicely put Janet Bai [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 01:08:56 (EDT)
From: [Blank]
Email: None
To: Passing Through
Subject: The difference is that EPO's not anonymous!
Message:
even though i am.
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Date: Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 00:38:33 (EDT)
From: SC
Email: None
To: Passing Through
Subject: PT, The problem is...
Message:
Whenever one presents a straight, unambiguous comment or question to this forum it seems to bring out the animal in them.

I recommended a sex therapist for that particular ailment but was booed out of the room.

For most of them though I always find a whip, high heeled boots and a megaphone does the job just fine. The more they get whipped, the humbler they get. I even have two of them tamed and house trained, via personal e-mail.

The ones who can actually elucidate their position tend to do so on Chris Dickey's Forum called Lifes Great. We chucked Jimbo and Debroar off because they were making a nuisance of themselves.

In the three years I've been posting I've only managed to get three people back into the cult. That's one per year.
I'm beginning to wonder is it's worth all the harrassment and abuse for just three sheep, who should never have been allowed day leave from the pen anyway.

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Date: Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 19:15:27 (EDT)
From: Silvia
Email: None
To: SC
Subject: Who are those 3 sheep?
Message:
Just wondering dear SC.

Why did they go back, do you know?

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Date: Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 19:15:12 (EDT)
From: Silvia
Email: None
To: SC
Subject: Who are those 3 sheep?
Message:
Just wondering dear SC.
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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 01:06:49 (EDT)
From: SC
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Silvia darling?
Message:
Yes, an OR nurse. Actually a charge nurse. I run the place.

List of things people can live without and never really miss:
A kidney
95% of their liver
Appendix
Tonsils
Adenoids
Gall Bladder
65% of their Stomach
Wisdom Teeth
Uvula
Turbinates
Fibula

List of things that one is better off without:
Maharaji!

I know that was a cheap shot!

Tonette

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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 05:31:05 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: How did Tonette's message appear here?
Message:
No one will believe this except Janet. I was going to post a message to SC aka cerise aka Marolyn Kintire aka David Ro...(oops sorry David I nearly let the cat out of the bag) and suddenly Tonette's response to me in a thread above about sigmoid colons appeared here and so did my answer to her. It must be the Taelon UFOs doing mind-control experiments again or else it is 2.30 am and I should be asleep. Yep, night night.
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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 05:18:16 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: What on earth are turbinates?
Message:
I worked in hospitals for 30 years (pharmacy) but I'm stumped. Most of my best friends are nurses. The most practical people I know and with a sensible approach to love and care not some pie in the sky blissy pissy BS (Belief System.)
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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 05:43:59 (EDT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Located in the nose
Message:
You have three on each side, called appropriately the superior, middle and inferior turbinates. They help heat and humidify the air you breathe before it enters the lungs. I think they also have cilia on them which helps to cleanse the air.
They are located way up your nose, in each nostril, near the ethmoid sinus. And no, for you nectar lovers, you can't lick them with your tongue while doing the nectar technique.

You say very kind things Pat. I like you. BTY, are you worried about all the crap and personal information posted on CAC about you? Just curious.

Tonette

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Date: Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 05:03:41 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: SC
Subject: You're such a phoney David R. [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 20:07:31 (EDT)
From: bill-geeze pt,
Email: None
To: Passing Through
Subject: why say dumb things? [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 20:27:10 (EDT)
From: such
Email: None
To: bill-geeze pt,
Subject: it's just ole pissin' through again... [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 19:34:24 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Passing Through
Subject: Difference between me and Cacaraji
Message:
I don't claim to be the master who can ''bring you home,'' save you or show you god and neither have I gotten wealthy off donations or had people line up to kiss my feet and sing to me that I am the Superior Power in person.
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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 19:04:26 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Passing Through
Subject: What's the problem?
Message:
Depends, I guess, on whether or not they're willing to admit the light's out.

In this case, time and time again, the premies keep coming back like zombies voicing the same inane arguments. Maharaji's character is in issue because he was the guru, he claimed to be God, he demanded that we trust him beyond all human norm and he made a fortune running his scam. Our character's are not in issue. It's as plain as day.

So, you ask what the problem is, PT? The problem is that your cult leader's falling apart and none of you followers have an effective way of stopping that.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 19:48:39 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Jim, read your email asap [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 18:58:23 (EDT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: Passing Through
Subject: Yes, but you wouldn't understand..
Message:
Is there any difference between the actions of CAC and the actions of the EPO and Forum?

Yes, but you wouldn't understand. The kindergarten forum is, as yet, applying for parental consent so you'll have to wait a wee while or twa for a reply to your most excellently pertinent comment (for a five-year-old).

Meanwhile, were you involved in setting up the CAC site, Mr Turner?

You've been away a few weeks. Straight 'yes' or straight 'no' will suffice..

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 19:24:58 (EDT)
From: Passing Through
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: No to Nigel (nt)
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 18:44:05 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Passing Through
Subject: Don't answer this asshole ~) [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 20:07:31 (EDT)
From: Silvia
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: asshole ~) Simply said
Message:
I like your directness. Why call this person something else? LOL

Do premies think they can continue acting stupid....FOREVER?

Hi Debbie! ;)

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 20:29:25 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Silvia
Subject: Re: asshole }) Simply said
Message:
Hi Sweetie,

How are you?

Still trying to talk sense to the cult idiots at Lies Great!

What great lies have they come up with now?

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 20:49:33 (EDT)
From: Silvia
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: }) Were you unblocked at LG?
Message:
LIES GREAT: hahahahahahhaa....ROFL

On the dot!

He is not the LORD, but my friend. He takes my money, I mean, he asks me to pay to listen to him, but...I mean, is cool man! Yeah, is so, so cool to be a cult member and to have such an ONLY friend. He made me, well, he convinced me nobody loves me but him, but, I mean, he is cool man, so cool. Come and watch some vidoes. His mahatmas are pathetic, I mean, so, so cool, thye rape, I mean, talk so good. We are a big family man, so, so cool. He shines, you know. I mean, drshan , I mean, when you see 'this friend' yoru eyes shine, I mean, I don't know why in the fuck I'm a premie, but man, it is so, so cool to be one. I feel so, so special.

Go fuck yourself, idiot!

hahhahaha

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 20:55:47 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Silvia
Subject: Re: }) What do you mean unblocked
Message:
From Chris Dickey, the block head, I mean Forum Admin.

He's scared of my posts. Big baby is scared of my posts.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 18:01:44 (EDT)
From: STATEMENT BY VICTIMS
Email: None
To: All
Subject: ATTACKED BY THE MAHARAJI CULT
Message:
STATEMENT BY VICTIMS ATTACKED BY THE MAHARAJI CULT

August 30, 2001

The undersigned were recently attacked by unnamed premies (devotees of Maharaji), by means of an Internet website called “Citizens Against Cyberstalking” (www.stopcyberstalkers.org) which, at first glance, appeared to be a public service to the victims of harassment. These premies targeted the twelve of us, who are all former followers of Maharaji (“ex-premies”), by labeling us criminal “cyberstalkers,” and by listing our names with eight other alleged “cyberstalkers” who included child molesters and kidnappers.

The website was an incitement to anyone viewing the site to contact our employers, families, professional associations, licensing bureaus, and other entities to inform them that we had engaged in criminal activity. The website provided corresponding addresses, telephone numbers and email links for them to easily do so. The website also included our pictures, disclosed addresses of our homes and businesses, telephone numbers and email addresses. In one extreme attempt at intimidation, the authors of the website even went so far as to provide the picture of the young child of one of the ex-premies, and listed the address of where the child lived. It also included false, out-of-context, and misleading information about all of us, including twisted and fabricated quotes these premies used as “proof” of their allegations of our mental illness or criminal activity.

The obvious goal of these premies was to blackmail and intimidate us so that we would refrain from posting about Maharaji and his cult on the Internet. The perpetrators specifically offered to refrain from further blackmail if the victim did so. Sadly, one of our numbers, so frightened about the safety of his daughter whose picture and address were displayed, capitulated publicly to the blackmail and his name was then removed from the “cyberstalker” list.

We believe we were singled out for attack from among the hundreds of ex-premies who have posted on the Internet because we are perceived to have been effective in helping premies who no longer want to be a part of the Maharaji cult, who were staying out of fear or other reasons, to leave the cult by supplying information that has been kept secret by the cult for many years, and by generally offering them support. Some of us were targeted because of what would appear to be our particular vulnerability to blackmail. Three out of the twelve appear to have been chosen because they are gay, one appears to have been chosen because his child was vulnerable to attack, and most of us were chosen partly because we have posted under our own names on the Internet, and hence were easily identifiable.

The website authors claimed that as premies they, themselves, have been the victims of defamation, harassment and other illegal activities at the hands of ex-premies, but no proof whatsoever was provided. Much less, no proof was provided that any of us, the actual victims of the website, had engaged in any such activities, and we categorically deny that we have done so.

Although the perpetrators claim to consist of four individuals, we have reason to believe that Elan Vital, the front organization for Maharaji, and Maharaji himself, may have instigated, contributed to, or condoned this attack. We have been informed by reliable sources that Elan Vital has been “monitoring,” collecting data on, and even doing external investigations of, ex-premies who have posted on the Internet about Maharaji. We have also been informed that Elan Vital has assigned monitors to review our postings to compile extensive files on all of us, and we feel there is good reason to believe, based on the nature of the attack and who was chosen for the attack, that that information compiled by Elan Vital was used to prepare the website, and to defame and attempt to intimidate us. Whether the Elan Vital hierarchy officially condoned the use of this information is difficult to know.

Under the circumstances, we find Elan Vital’s press release of August 23, 2001, both utterly inadequate and insulting, because it does not specifically condemn this attack, and it blames the victims for causing it. We are concerned because the press release is yet another “dig” at ex-premies, and might encourage the more fanatical of Elan Vital’s members to do something similar. We also suspect that Prem Pal Singh Rawat (aka Maharaji) may have been personally involved, at least to the extent of tacit approval, since to date we are aware of no public statement by him disavowing the website and its perpetrators.

After threats of legal action were made publicly by several of us, the website was modified on August 28, 2001 and replaced with a statement that the premies behind the site would be contributing their “database of resources” to two unnamed organizations. This statement, which implies further dissemination of the defamatory material, as well as the possibility that it or a similar website could appear at any time, makes it even more alarming that we have yet to see any statement whatsoever from Mr. Rawat about this, nor have we seen any evidence of attempts by him to attempt to stop his more fanatic devotees from doing anything similar in the future. Since the perpetrators claim personal allegiance to Mr. Rawat and his teachings, we feel Mr. Rawat has a moral and ethical obligation to make such a public statement.

This event is an ominous sign. Until recently, most of us believed that the more fanatical elements had died out years ago after the Mahatma Fakiranand incident in the 1970s. But these events, as well as earlier attempts by Mr. Rawat’s lawyers to shut down the websites through which ex-premies share information, lead us to believe that the Maharaji cult may be headed in the same direction as other destructive cults, such as Scientology, which attack former members who disclose critical information and opinions. Since we the undersigned stand behind our statements and opinions, and do so by not being anonymous, and because we intend to continue speaking about the subjects of Mr. Rawat and our former cult, we are understandably concerned about our safety.

We can understand why the cult is concerned about us, to the extent of wanting us to be intimidated off the Internet. In addition to providing a support for premies leaving the cult, ex-premies have been extremely effective in publicizing the fact that Maharaji is not at all the person he has tried to project, and in fact he has serious personal flaws that he has attempted over the years, with great effort, to keep secret.

We have also pointed out that Maharaji's priorities do not appear to be what he professes. During the same time he has amassed immense wealth for himself personally, he has failed utterly in 'spreading knowledge' and has thousands fewer followers today in the West than he had 20 years ago. He rarely does 'introductory programs,' rarely advertises his existence or that of 'knowledge,' and has shown little interest in doing anything other than retaining his core audience, his dwindling group of devotees from the 70s, and engaging in technological gimmicks, pretending that these are finally going to spread the word, after 30 years of failed attempts.

If anyone needs any proof of the fact that Maharaji has reverted to his “Lord of the Universe” roots to retain these devotees, they need only note that as recently as a few months ago, in a high-security enclave in Australia, Maharaji had these devotees sing ARTI to him, a lengthy Hindu song premies sang to him in the 70s, which clearly describes Maharaji as a deity, and more extreme yet, Maharaji had those same devotees line up by the hundreds to kiss his feet. Neither Maharaji, nor Elan Vital, are about to tell any potential aspirant that such events occur in the year 2001, as Elan Vital deceptively presents Maharaji to the unsuspecting world as northing more than a entirely secular, modern, meditation master. But if these people happen to turn to the Internet, they just might learn the whole truth, and armed with more complete information, make up their own minds about who Maharaji is and what he offers. For these reasons, we will not be intimidated from providing a public service by speaking out freely about Maharaji.

Joseph Whalen
Anthony Ginn
Marianne Bachers
Jeffrey Leason
William Williams
Salam Al-Ahmar
Michael Dettmers
Patrick Conlon
Jim Heller
Jean-Michel Kahn
Gerry Lyng

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Date: Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 09:04:02 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: STATEMENT BY VICTIMS
Subject: What's going to be their next step?
Message:
I feel a bit concerned about this.

What do you think ? Physical action, like scientologists do ?

Issue a new press release, saying we're defaming EV and M ?

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Date: Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 11:52:19 (EDT)
From: One of the Victims
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Next Step
Message:
For victims of these kinds of attacks, the best way to protect yourself is to PUBLICIZE your concerns. Bullies like the premies who did CAC thrive on anonymity and picking on people who appear vulnerable and to do it in secret as much as possible. It's important for all the victims to stick together, for the other ex-premies to support them, and to get as much publicity about all this as possible.

Publicity would also help get the premies who aren't fanatics, which is most of them, and Maharaji and EV to try to get to whoever those jerks are, and tell them to cut it out. This is only going to happen if other premies are embarrassed and outraged that these premies did this, and there is good information that many of them are.

Elan Vital and Maharaji also have to realize what a PR disaster this has been for them, and, in their own interests, prevent it from occurring again.

But as has been said many times, only, ONLY, Maharaji himself can really prevent this, by making a very strong public statement that he doesn't want this kind of thing happening, and to SPECIFICALLLY condem the CAC site. Every one of us, and every premie, should be asking the question why Maharaji hasn't done it already, and when he WILL do it?

In the meantime, I think all of us should distribute the statement of the victims far and wide, to premies, to ex-premies, and to anyone else who should know. I think this is the only way we can bring pressure on Maharaji to do the right thing.

BTW, if anyone wants a hard copy of the statement via email in Word, please email the FA. Thanks.

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Date: Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 12:14:38 (EDT)
From: michael donner
Email: None
To: One of the Victims
Subject: Re: Next Step
Message:
hi one step that i hope the 12 (and anyone) will take is to track down the supposed group that cac is 'merging' with ...contact them to let them know what kind of idiots that they are.
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Date: Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 09:29:52 (EDT)
From: TEETH
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: I'm saying for long
Message:
an attack from our part is needed, media, that is.

It may be difficult to put together and to get a general agreement but in my opinion needs to be done. Why wait to see what they are/will do?

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Date: Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 15:19:43 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: stars@uvic.ca
To: TEETH
Subject: Agreed
Message:
Contact me via email to talk.
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Date: Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 04:38:56 (EDT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: STATEMENT BY VICTIMS
Subject: Re:how bout media dissemination??
Message:
newpapers, radio spots, tv news, a billboard on PCH with a big arrow up trancas canyon road?....
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Date: Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 05:08:56 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: We can't afford a billboard, Janet.
Message:
How about if you parade around the Trancas Canyon supermarket wearing a sandwich board which says ''The End is Nigh for Gurujism'' on one side and ''Prepare to Meet Thy Doom Maharajism'' on the other?
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Date: Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 05:21:04 (EDT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: maybe we can get a sponsor
Message:
wellllllll, pat...
How about if you parade around the Trancas Canyon supermarket wearing a sandwich board which says ''The End is Nigh for Gurujism'' on one side and ''Prepare to Meet Thy Doom Maharajism'' on the other?

not my style, but not all ads are as expensive as billboards.
lets nt drop the concept so soon. what CAN we afford?

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Date: Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 09:31:39 (EDT)
From: Silvia
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Re: maybe we can get a sponsor
Message:
We 'should' do something. Read TEETH's (me) post to JM.

I'm in a hurry. Working and reading a bit.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 23:28:24 (EDT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: STATEMENT BY VICTIMS
Subject: excellent letter all of you (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 03:54:28 (EDT)
From: ggg
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: Power to the people! nt
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 22:08:07 (EDT)
From: Cedron
Email: None
To: STATEMENT BY VICTIMS
Subject: The king
Message:
The king who wars against his people shall never see an end to it.
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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 20:21:14 (EDT)
From: da lil' swami suchabanana
Email: None
To: STATEMENT BY VICTIMS
Subject: Power to da peoples,right on!
Message:
da truth shall set you FREE!!!
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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 20:10:26 (EDT)
From: bill-wonder how they will respond
Email: None
To: STATEMENT BY VICTIMS
Subject: to 'phase one'
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 19:29:22 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: STATEMENT BY VICTIMS
Subject: Thanks, Joe
Message:
I am emailing the statement to the premies on my mailing list now.
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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 23:14:00 (EDT)
From: Stoops the Janitor
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: FA some help please
Message:
I don't know what you want me to do, boss. Can I he'p ya?
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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 18:55:48 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: STATEMENT BY VICTIMS
Subject: What about press release Aug 27th
Message:
Someone tell me where I can find this press release. I've been off forum for a couple of days. Miss anything much.

Anyone sith news regarding the CAC investigation is welcome to update me. Perhaps we can figure out a way to share that information.

Please take note if you are reading this post, that not only do I take a stand behind the undersigned of the post myself but I am making an effort to bring the perpetrators to authorities. And I have no regard for anyone's poor cult mind. What you did and are continuing to do is monstrous. It won't shut me up but make me scream louder.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 19:12:33 (EDT)
From: One of the victims
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: It's August 23 Press Release
Message:
Go to the EV website: www.elanvital.org

Click on 'Press Kit' You will find two of the most transparently self-serving press releases in the history of mankind, including the one mentioned.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 18:30:45 (EDT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: STATEMENT BY VICTIMS
Subject: In an eggshell. Superb.
Message:
Trying to work out who the main hand behind this was. Actually, quite easy...

Prost!

Nigel Longhurst (who would have added his name but wasn't attacked so isn't qualified)

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 18:17:06 (EDT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: STATEMENT BY VICTIMS
Subject: Re: ATTACKED BY THE MAHARAJI CULT
Message:
Although I was not directly attacked by the www.stopcyberstalkers.org site, I would like to publicly state that I stand with the twelve signatories of this letter. For anyone who thinks there is any possibility that we are cyberstalkers, this would be a first - an international conspiracy of cyberstalkers. Don't stalkers usually work alone?

The longer Maharaji maintains his public silence on this site, which was started by avowed supporters of Maharaji, the more it appears that he is implicated in either initiating the site, or at the very least, supporting it.

John Brauns

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Date: Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 12:12:11 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Superb!
Message:
To Maharaj, EV, and CACA:

I was not directly attacked by the www.stopcyberstalkers.org, but I also add my name to the list of those who fully support the victims of said website.

Elan Vital's August 23rd ''Press Release,'' is hypocritical in its content and implications, serving only to protect EV's leader, Guru Maharaj Ji. Moreover, while EV attempts to evoke sympathy by publishing this ''Press Release,'' Maharaji, as the leader of this organization must be held responsible for the public attack on the signers of the above statement, who are private people.

While Maharaji a/k/a Prempal Rawat disavows any connection to this horrendous website and the injuries inflicted on the people exposed, as leader of this organization Mr. Rawat owes, at the least, a personal explanation and apology to the these individuals.

Based on Mr. Rawat's history of remaining silent during any controversies concerning his personal behavior and behavior as the cult leader it is doubtful he will make such a gesture. Mr. Rawat's tendency to hide behind his religious organization, first, Divine Light Mission and now Elan Vital, are proof that he has no concern whatsoever for anyone but himself.

As a former member of the Maharajism cult, I fully support the EPO website, the associated forums, including this Forum, and those individuals here who have a right to tell the truth about the cult.

It's time for you, Maharaji, to take public responsibility for the insidious actions of the members of your religious organization immediately.

I will not shut up. I will not stop speaking out about your cult.

Cynthia J. Gracie

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 20:23:44 (EDT)
From: such
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: hey, da famous 12 apostates!
Message:
er, i.e. apostles.
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Date: Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 19:27:29 (EDT)
From: Teeth
Email: None
To: such
Subject: Re: hey, da famous 12 apostates!
Message:
u #13 hahahhahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

sil

Tofu and avocados. :)

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 18:15:40 (EDT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: STATEMENT BY VICTIMS
Subject: BRAVO!!! and ***BEST OF FORUM*** [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 15:10:19 (EDT)
From: Pooper Scooper b)
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Please ave all posts from cultweasel stalkers
Message:
Including dates, browsers and context in which the cyberstalking took place. Exes are being stalked on the forum and nasty vicious comments made about them and to them. I will also be looking through the archives for this stuff.

FA please keep a log of cultweasel cyberstalkers' IP#s.

PS Satsang and massa praising also count as unwanted communications. Barf.

Pat:C)

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 17:13:49 (EDT)
From: Mail person
Email: None
To: Pooper Scooper b)
Subject: Here is one
Message:
Posted: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 20:43:21 (EDT)
Original: NA
Posted by: Catweasel Recipient: All
Email Address: Not Provided
Browser Type: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows 98; DigExt)
Message Count: 78 visits (51 today, 78 this week, 78 this month, 78 this year)

Subject: Your Comments Dettmers
Message:

Such a hypocrite. I remember you schmoozing around like some God in the 80's. You should tell the real truthabout WHY you left. It's a little more tainted on your side than you let on.Burn your fingers Mr International Business consultant extrodinaire?

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 15:50:30 (EDT)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Pooper Scooper b)
Subject: One problem, Pat...
Message:
A great many anonymous aggro-posts never made it to the archives. It depends who was FA at the time. During my stint I had a pretty ruthless deletion policy going with regard to persistent disruptive posters - especially those containing intimidation or threats (and there were many). I still have a list of suspect IPs somewhere.

But good luck..and let us know by email what you intend to do with whatever you gather. The Moley one is, as they say, in fine fettle - I'll untie her (and the sheep) in a minute and get her to drop you a line.. ;)

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 17:02:54 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Merde!
Message:
I had some doozies - real snarly faghating stalkers. Damn.

Love to your sheep and Moley.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 20:12:56 (EDT)
From: such
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: mer d'ici! [nt]
Message:
sheesh
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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 13:00:11 (EDT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Rawat: Insidious and Relentless
Message:
Rawat is indeed making 'good' use of the information highway, which he vehemently condemned and ridiculed only a few short years ago. He sends daily 'messages' to his audience in the form of EV Newsletter. This stuff is poisonous, I'd say:

I want my heart to be a part of my existence.

OK we all have 'heart' except of course, sociopaths like Rawat.

I do not want to learn the ways of throwing that away, of masking my reality, of anaesthetizing myself from this beautiful gift that I have been given.

'Learn the ways' curious wording. This may mean 'learn the truth' about Mr Rawat which would certainly lead to to 'anaesthetizing one's self' from his personality cult.

I tell you this because you also know this is real. There is nothing in this life that will go with you to the very end. The only thing that will be there until the very end is your breath.

Again, this is hypno-talk. First there is 'nothing' but wait, there is something, the Speaker's favorite hobby horse, the breath. Weird, huh?

And nothing will put you in touch with that breath except the gift of Knowledge. It's the only thing that addresses the breath.

What an arrogant and bald faced lie! There are hundreds of breath based meditations available for people to use.

It is the only thing that acknowledges your existence as you are — non-judgmentally. If you want to be accepted without judgment, then there is only one person who can do that, and, in turn, give you a gift which will free you.

"Only one person" And this is NOT a personality cult?

Incredible. This guy hasn't learned a thing. He's burying himself in his own bullshit. Even the hardcores are beginning to smell a rat in Rawat.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 15:49:23 (EDT)
From: Gregg
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Our Beloved non-Leader
Message:
'It is the only thing that acknowledges your existence as you are — non-judgmentally. If you want to be accepted without judgment, then there is only one person who can do that, and, in turn, give you a gift which will free you.'

-the Speaker

But he said that thirty years ago! Back when a bunch of delusional acid-heads (who are now twisted old fruits who find meaning in their pathetic little lives only by trashing our blameless Speaker) forced him to spout all that Hindu claptrap! Now he's just a spiritual friend. Sorry, scratch that, we don't use that word 'spiritual' any more. Um...just a friend. Not that I actually know the guy. Wait, when did he say that about being the only one?

Oh. Never mind.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 20:08:24 (EDT)
From: such
Email: None
To: Gregg
Subject: F u kin remember da early daze,u weren't thar!hoho [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 13:54:00 (EDT)
From: such
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Prem - what a ham!
Message:
http://www.lileks.com/institute/gallery/ads/prem.html
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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 13:58:30 (EDT)
From: such
Email: None
To: such
Subject: link: Prem - what a ham!
Message:

[ http://www.lileks.com/institute/gallery/ads/prem.html ]
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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 15:06:41 (EDT)
From: such
Email: None
To: such
Subject: Service Opportunities!
Message:
http://www.lileks.com/institute/gallery/misc/war1.html
[ http://www.lileks.com/institute/gallery/misc/war1.html ]
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Date: Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 11:26:10 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: such
Subject: Oh That's Very Funny!
Message:
Does that include fruit too? Sucha-banana?
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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 15:08:18 (EDT)
From: such
Email: None
To: such
Subject: A Modern Premie Diet-Book!
Message:
http://www.lileks.com/institute/gallery/ads/mexicorn.html

http://www.lileks.com/institute/gallery/ads/boybike.html

http://www.lileks.com/institute/gallery/ads/sos.html

http://www.lileks.com/institute/gallery/ads/sos.html

http://www.lileks.com/institute/gallery/misc/hunt4.html

http://www.lileks.com/institute/gallery/misc/const2.html
[ http://www.lileks.com/institute/gallery/misc/hunt4.html ]

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 14:25:53 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: such
Subject: I cancelled my subscription to EV Newsletter
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 04:52:12 (EDT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Re: I cancelled my subscription to EV Newsletter
Message:
bill gates henchmen canceled mine for me.
i suppose ev thinks i did it.
and neither side wants to listen to the truth.
what's for lunch?
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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 14:46:43 (EDT)
From: such
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Prem Spam is a terrible thing to have [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 15:35:04 (EDT)
From: ggg
Email: None
To: such
Subject: Thank you . . .
Message:
Such,

I was having a bit of a bad day, but not now I know how to make spiky meatballs and pink breasts seems like that was all I ever needed to fulfil my day . . . perhaps life!

Love and good vibes
ggg

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 19:44:37 (EDT)
From: such
Email: None
To: ggg
Subject: without levity, no levitation. haha
Message:
now, y'all have a happy day. btw, glad it hit da ggg spot. hehehe
i am da massa blasta... hohoho jest kiddin'.
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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 20:14:54 (EDT)
From: ggg
Email: None
To: such
Subject: Re: without levity, no levitation. haha
Message:
. . .oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh . . .
cheeky
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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 20:29:27 (EDT)
From: such
Email: None
To: ggg
Subject: you gotta cig, luv? [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 10:47:10 (EDT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: All
Subject: hey cacas
Message:
That was a real stuff up wasn't. I can't belive you guys. Hey am really dissapointed with you. I mean if you asked me nicely I was I would have told you who I was. But I guess that little juju blew it, don't you recon? So what is gonna be next, ha?

When are you guys going to get it through your thick brainwasted and cemented skulls. Exes are not going away, you are.

I remember the last world cup, in Rugby legue, the friggin French were grabbing at the aussies balls left, right and center, the aussies did not take no bull and jammed it right up the Frenchies [sorry jmk].

So what am saying, please stop trying to squeeze our balls whenever weren't looking and start playing the game right. Oh yeah, but you are a bunch of morons led by a 'looser'.

wanna a new coach?

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 17:23:39 (EDT)
From: salsa
Email: None
To: salam
Subject: caca tactic
Message:
The mental ensalada premies have is somewhat dangerous...to their own mental health.
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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 20:00:16 (EDT)
From: such
Email: None
To: salsa
Subject: but they tell me that caca
Message:
is REally GoOd Shyte! like da famous ladus! hohehahohuh

Hey Salam, don't let da meatloaf! hehehe

I checked da numerology factors on da caca site, and it came out 666 -- mark of da beast, anti-Xmas. 2001- must be da last days of da cult. twilight's last gleaming. da bombs roasting in heir, gave 150 proof to da rum dat our queen was still thar! oh say manna leitay heinies, for da W-rockets red-baiting glare, and da land of da free-fer-all. our home and native land. premdumb uber alles. hahahaha

dose fee don yas to Boris, that chumpski. methinks an R2 was in on da devil's handiwork, 'cause he keeps callin' dett an apostrophe, er prostrate, er y'know what ah mean. ah feel yer pain, bubba.

peas and tabouli w/ lentils on pita bread,

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 20:11:19 (EDT)
From: Silvia
Email: None
To: such
Subject: OT, sort of
Message:
Now I'm hungry.

What do you mean with:
I checked da numerology factors on da caca site, and it came out 666 --

Hi such,

salsa=silvia sorry. I have many personalities....;0

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 21:47:25 (EDT)
From: such
Email: None
To: Silvia
Subject: just doin' da 'New Math'
Message:
hahaha

lotsa love,

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 09:50:27 (EDT)
From: Reno Renegade
Email: None
To: All
Subject: CAC Perps
Message:
According to my mole in Maharaji's inner circle, the perpetrators of CAC are not too dissimilar from the founders of ELK, and the meeting that led to CAC being set up was the previously reported meeting in Amaroo this year between Maharaji and his 'biographers'.

RR

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 21:28:22 (EDT)
From: witch
Email: None
To: Reno Renegade
Subject: Re: CAC Perps
Message:
And Valerio Pascotto and Tim G. and later Charles Glassner were very angry about the forum. Especially Valerio...
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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 15:37:09 (EDT)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Reno Renegade
Subject: Why are people believing this?!!
Message:
I, for one, do not - at least, not without better evidence, or some idea who you are, Mr Renegade.

For one thing, there were numerous clues implicating American authorship. The ELK gang are all English, and no English premie would imagine the city of Cork was anywhere but in Ireland (not England as they stated in Marianne's slander page). There were other examples.

Also, from the impressions I have gained (admittedly second-hand) from exes who know Josie & Mark Baker, Jonathan C and the other one, I don't believe any of them have the right temperament for the outright nastiness of CAC. Rick's suggestion of Richard II (Nil/URL etc) sounds much more likely. But it is an interesting question, all right. Not least because it is unthinkable that at least some of the cacksters are NOT participating here under some or other alias. They obviously have a deep obsession with forum personnel coupled with a detailed knowledge of the forum archives, plus a parnoid need to remain anonymous.

Meanwhile, forgive my suspicions, RR, but a false lead is exactly what the CAC personmel most need right now, if only to throw the bloodhounds off the scent and win a bit of time. For all we know, you may be one of those guys. Whatever... they won't hide their IDs forever, and the truth will, as they say, out.

If you are genuine, please contact one of those below who have given email addresses. Thanks.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 19:10:04 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Read it again, Nige
Message:
To be fair, RR never said that it was the ELK folk themselves. He said it was a group put together like ELK was. Furthermore, if this was at Amaroo couldn't all sorts of non-Australian premies have been there?

I don't know what to believe but I don't see the same flags go up on RR that you do.

RR, if you are, in fact, sincere, please don't be offended by this suspicion. I'm sure you understand. That's why, though, it really is imperative that you post something further or email one or some of us as requested if you want to be believed. Thanks.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 19:34:33 (EDT)
From: Reno Renegade
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Read it again, Nige
Message:
According to my inner circle source, Jonathan Cainer was one of those who followed Maharaji's agya at Amaroo this year to attack ex-premies. I'm sorry, but I cannot think of any way to discuss this further without implicating the source.

RR

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Date: Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 14:51:53 (EDT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Reno Renegade
Subject: What was his agya?
Message:
Just 'get em?' Did he have any suggestions how?

I appreciate you need for anonymity, but this is very important and I appreciate anything you can tell us.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 21:44:17 (EDT)
From: witch
Email: None
To: Reno Renegade
Subject: Valerio Pascotto
Message:
It might be as simple as recalling the names of PAMS who have been mentioned here. Cainer, Pascotto, Lietner, Galway, Glassner. Especially VALERIO PASCOTTO
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Date: Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 11:16:28 (EDT)
From: btdt
Email: None
To: witch
Subject: Re: Valerio Pascotto
Message:
Valerio Pascotto via Linda Pascotto would have access to personal information from the EV participation form data base. That form is extremely detailed.
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Date: Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 11:16:27 (EDT)
From: btdt
Email: None
To: witch
Subject: Re: Valerio Pascotto
Message:
Valerio Pascotto via Linda Pascotto would have access to personal information from the EV participation form data base. That form is extremely detailed.
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Date: Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 11:16:20 (EDT)
From: btdt
Email: None
To: witch
Subject: Re: Valerio Pascotto
Message:
Valerio Pascotto via Linda Pascotto would have access to personal information from the EV participation form data base. That form is extremely detailed.
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Date: Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 11:22:28 (EDT)
From: oops
Email: None
To: btdt
Subject: sorry (nt)
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 05:06:50 (EDT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: witch
Subject: that's a loss of license rite there
Message:
valerio has just cooked his professional career as a licensed psychologist in the state of california, if he was in the cell that formed to put up CAC. he will never be allowed to practice psychology again after participating in this exercise of unmitigated evil and abuse. except perhaps, in some blackbudget CIA secret study of torture or psychological warfare.
I'll get right on it. I'm in the neighborhood.
valerio, you really fucked yourself this time.
everything comes to he who waits. theres no such thing as the perfect crime.
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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 20:02:10 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Reno Renegade
Subject: Furthermore
Message:
RR,

One reason why it might be a good idea to email one of us is that we could together discuss how best to deal with your inside info and not risk compromising your source.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 19:36:38 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Reno Renegade
Subject: Re: Read it again, Nige
Message:
RR,

Would you please email me? Come on, we're on the same team. I know you know that.

Thanks,

jamesheller@home.com

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 20:42:18 (EDT)
From: Nige
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: 'not too dissimilar from...'
Message:
..in satirical circles, means 'the same person/people'.

Maybe Reno is sincere, JIm. Maybe he is well-informed. Maybe he is victim of hearsay. Maybe he even exists, maybe he is Rob... It's just I can think of ninety-nine reasons for a premie-cac-person to give us a bum steer right now.

It wouldn't matter so much if we were discussing the flavour of M's preferred toothpaste, but this is more serious. We are living in delicate times and I am still puzzled by the apparent knee-jerk acceptance of what - to me - sounds like a deliberate false lead. Not necessarily from Reno - maybe from his source. I don't know. You don't know, Jim. None of us knows...

I advise caution. That's all. If Reno hasn't emailed by nightfall on the West coast, I'd say he was full of shit.

If he does email (identifying himself), maybe we'll all be grateful.

We'll see..

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 20:48:36 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Nige
Subject: Hey, Nige, check YOUR email
Message:
But give me a minute to write it first! :)
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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 18:52:57 (EDT)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Nigel
Subject: Also...
Message:
The ELK web-design, art-work, format and structure, craps on the scrappy, back-alley, tom-cat spray of a CAC effort. I see no big bucks behind that joke of a page. More like a lone stalker with four personalities and a lot of time on his (or her - this ain't necessarily about testosterone - it might be Raina..?) hands.

Seriously, I do NOT believe CAC was cult-sponsored. Surprisingly, I even believe EV when they (semi-)distanced themselves from the embarrasment.

I am puzzled so many exes below assumed this post came from a reliable source. Exes were once premies and therefore, I guess, still gullible...

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 15:42:56 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Also ELK ''founders' are frontmen
Message:
They're bascially church ladies not inner-circlites. CAC was done by people with MONEY to lose if the guru business goes under.
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Date: Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 05:18:22 (EDT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: Also ELK ''founders' are frontmen
Message:
hmmmmm...there's a lead to think on.
'inner-circlites. CAC was done by 'people with MONEY to lose, if the guru business goes under'

hmmmm
what people have taken out those huge rotating loans, that maharaji relies on so much, to meet the staggering payments due on amaroo, the jet, the satellite broadcasts, the residence, the yacht...?
we've talked about this at different times on forum 5 and 6 and 7. how the inner circle contributors keep him afloat, how the loans are managed, who's at risk, and stands to lose fortunes if the maha goes out of business....
think back. investments. returns. interest.dividends. 'appreciation' (as opposed to depreciation, of assets.)
who stands to lose, and lose big?

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 15:05:49 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Reno Renegade
Subject: Maharaji ''Biographers?'...
Message:
Well, he better read the book Jean-Michel just put online before he slips on his cognac high.

Who would read a biography of Maharaji, except the 4 or 5 premies left in the US?

LOLOL~!

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 19:34:35 (EDT)
From: Biography Names:
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Biography of a Yogurt?
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 19:35:44 (EDT)
From: How about
Email: None
To: Biography Names:
Subject: My Six Chins?
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 01:59:06 (EDT)
From: I'm not fat !
Email: None
To: How about
Subject: Just short for my width ! nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 19:38:11 (EDT)
From: Or
Email: None
To: How about
Subject: When 10 Rolls Just Aren't Enough
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 14:27:34 (EDT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Reno Renegade
Subject: ELK Founders
Message:
This is from ELK's original site before they became anonymous:-

This site is about enjoying Knowledge and is a place for people to express their joy!

The teachings of Maharaji have touched the lives of different people everywhere. And this site is intended for those who already appreciate Maharaji's teachings.

So if you have not heard of Maharaji before and want to know more, go to Maharaji's site at www.maharaji.org.

And to find out more about the organisations which provide information about his teachings go to www.elanvital.org.

The four of us, Mark Winter, Josie Winter, Jonathan Cainer and Colin Bardell, who started 'enjoyinglife', are really glad to
have received Knowledge and are grateful for the way it makes us feel. It is privilege to share our enthusiasm on the Internet.

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Date: Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 08:39:16 (EDT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: ELK revisionists more like
Message:
http://www.ex-premie.org/pages/elk1.htm

These are the guys who re-wrote exes contributions to ELK aren't they?

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 14:15:39 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Reno Renegade
Subject: Rawat can't stop the church lady gossip
Message:
Yes, someone could not help boasting about their involvement and that's probably how my informant found out too.
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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 11:48:58 (EDT)
From: Joe
Email: kevjo@mindspring.com
To: Reno Renegade
Subject: Details, PLEASE
Message:
Are you saying that at a meeting of premies in Amaroo, they decided to do something like the CAC as a hit piece on ex-premies?

What do you mean the group is similar to the ones who formed ELK?

I appreciate what you've said, but this is really, really important, so please, let us know what you know.

Please email me, if you don't want to talk publicly. I understand. My email address is listed above.

Joe

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 11:32:07 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Reno Renegade
Subject: That's amazing
Message:
Like Salam, I'd urge you to contact me by email if you could:

jamesheller@home.com

What you're saying is amazing. Any further details, large or small, would be so appreciated.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 10:37:19 (EDT)
From: Carl
Email: None
To: Reno Renegade
Subject: It figures.
Message:
Right from the very top. Or more accurately, the dregs. I knew it. Only someone fearful and feeling threatened, and with way too much time and big-buck resources at hand, would lash out with such a stinking volume of cack.

Such a tragedy, no?
C.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 10:36:10 (EDT)
From: Salam
Email: salam_au@iprimus.com.au
To: Reno Renegade
Subject: really
Message:
Was it during the last event in Amaroo?

You are probably posting under an alias. But can you say more. If not will you e-mail me, please please please. I promise not to tell cacas anything.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 14:36:25 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Maharaji Loves Secrets...
Message:
It makes him feel like he's the lord or something.

BTW, sorry about my attitude problem yesterday. All this recent caca stuff stirs up a lot in me re: secrecy. It's a poisonous thing, M's secrecy. He's always been at it.

Being at Deca and having to keep so many was intense, as Joe knows, and there's a dynamic about the secrecy which makes people who are privy to those secrets feel important.

It's a creepy feeling...what's been happening lately to you guys (and Marianne). I hope you're all doing okay.

I won't say never, but I won't be going back to Lifes (sic) Great again--that place has a culty vibe about it that I don't have the stomach for.

Be well everyone,
Cynthia

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 12:36:00 (EDT)
From: Wow!! You guys got
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: CyberStalking Prashad. Impressive
Message:
(nt)
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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 13:22:58 (EDT)
From: Double Agent
Email: None
To: Wow!! You guys got
Subject: Maharji's covert operations
Message:
I can just picture the scene of MJ meeting with his 'biographers.' They wear good Italian suits. It's a bit like a mob meeting to 'produce a movie.'

MJ is no stranger to covert operations. He loves them. He and Raja Ji secretly fancy themselves as mafiosi. It's one of their favorite models of 'being a man' - and they had lost their father growing up, and they obviously didn't see much power in being bald, pink-robed weenies.

I was recruited for one of MJ's covert operations, many, many years ago in NYC. My 'underboss' was reporting straight to 'the Boss,' who was encouraging him quite directly in espionage-like tactics to try and undermine BBJ, who was there at the time. Diguises, lock-picking tools - it was a regular Watergate-type thing. And there was the whole WPC thing in ENgland - give details if you were there.

This is just the same kind of thing, taken to into cyberspace.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 13:56:31 (EDT)
From: Julian
Email: None
To: Double Agent
Subject: How can any premie follow this monster?
Message:
With no regard for people's safety or their livelyhoods and complete disregard for their children's safety. How can any premie listen to Maharaji after this?
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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 14:37:40 (EDT)
From: dogweasel
Email: None
To: Julian
Subject: M tells them not to listen...
Message:
... to the 'doubtmaker'. So they listen to the 'excusemaker' instead, until they just get too disgusted. That can be a good thing. Sometimes listening to the excusemaker too much really forces you to look at what you are involved with. The exit door begins to open...
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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 20:02:46 (EDT)
From: such
Email: None
To: dogweasel
Subject: hey, I got a dogwhistle
Message:
phewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

kin ya hear it over thar? it's sbd -- silent but deadly [must be da lentils] hahaha

peas et lentils,

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 14:09:56 (EDT)
From: Elan Vital
Email: None
To: Julian
Subject: Right now, we think about 34...
Message:
That's what our latest statistics show that we have gathered from the 519 people who Elan Vital has monitoring and reporting on the 34 in a very synchronized fashion, let us assure you.

But of course, our bar graphs, which are created in Maharajiland, show that everything is just peachy great!

Thank you for your inquiry. Be sure to check out our highly factual and honest answers to FAQs on our website at www.elanvital.org, or email our PR department at wearenotacult@wereallyaren't.org

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 04:54:33 (EDT)
From: From harry on Lifes Grate
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Hey Jim and Joe argue with this
Message:
Good evening, Seńor Bańana,

You had to reach that far back, huh? Nice quote from 1971-1972, age 13 or 14. I happen to think the lad's kept his priorities quite clear all along, in spite of various dramas.

And I'm sure you haven't had your share of fun and mischief, Banana man... By the way, what were you imparting and transmitting at age 13 or 14 that would be noteworthy and magnetically draw large crowds? And notice, I purposely didn't use the phrase 'disseminating.'

He was genuine then, he's genuine now and I certainly don't begrudge him his play-time or pleasures. Why would you? Is Maharaji running for Vice President and I haven't been informed? Gee, should we apply the Pat Robertson standard or the Bob Dylan standard to this guy's behavior...or at what point along that vast spectrum? Let's see...better behaved than Clinton but worse than Al Gore? Should he be as wild as Wolfgang Puck or Yogananda? More like Margaret Thatcher or Allen Ginsberg? Closer to Princess Di or Prince Charles? Anita Bryant would be horrified; Pierre Trudeau would have some laughs.

What percentage of Maharaji's time and teachings would you say have been dedicated to telling others how to behave, how not to behave, who to fall in love with, what to look like, what to eat, how to express yourself, who to have sex with or what to believe blindly? How much marriage counseling and love life advice has Maharaji given from the stage? Or off it? Whose personal habits have you heard him publicly criticize? What age, physical condition, sexual preference, religious background, nationality, literacy level or affluence status have you seen him unable to deal with or accept?

Do you realize that the behavioral cage you've tried to place Maharaji into is entirely based on theory and doesn't apply to anyone else on earth? Do you apply the same standard to what a brilliant musician is supposed to act like, what a painter is supposed to eat, should architects enjoy after dinner cognacs? How much should a writer weigh? What should or shouldn't Ray Charles smoke? Are exceptionally perceptive people not allowed to notice beauty in earthly as well as ephemeral formats?

So, the central thrust of this man's teachings has virtually nothing to do with lifestyle, judgement, circumstances and personal behavior choices. And you're trying to make him into a hypocrite armed with quotes dating from before his voice changed. You are, from an entirely conceptual viewpoint, based on distant hearsay, trying to begrudge him from living in any way that is similar to you and most of your friends at similar points in your lives. Think about that.

That a pretty flimsy case for hypocrisy, in fact, I'd rethink that before it doubles back on you. Don't even think to mention the ashram, which I lived in. I didn't think for one moment I was there that Maharaji was living the same lifestyle as me, nor did he ever pretend or say that he was. Not once. He may not have broadcast his every raise of the elbow to the Missoula, Montana sisters house (and why should he, anyway?), but no one there in their right mind thought Maharaji was Mr. Rogers or Dick Cheney (or Michael Dettmers).

Can a truly high soul enjoy a burger?

Is it conceivable that the Perfect Master would like females? Or is that entirely unnatural?

There are some real questions there. If you feel like it, take a look at 'em before going back into your Mr. Natural character.

I'll ask these again: What percentage of Maharaji's time and teachings would you say have been dedicated to telling others how to behave, how not to behave, who to fall in love with, what to look like, what to eat, how to express yourself, who to have sex with or what to believe blindly? How much marriage counseling and love life advice has Maharaji given from the stage? Or off it? Whose personal habits have you heard him publicly criticize? What age, physical condition, sexual preference, religious background, nationality, literacy level or affluence status have you seen him unable to deal with or accept?

What does any of this gossip really have to do with what he teaches? Anything at all?

Nitey-nite...

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Date: Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 06:59:51 (EDT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: From harry on Lifes Grate
Subject: thanks, i think i will.
Message:
I'm so glad you asked.
why, as a matter of fact, i can target every one of those questions:

You had to reach that far back, huh?
>yup. we all go back that far. we started there and so did he.
Nice quote from 1971-1972,
>he was only< age 13 or 14. he was programmed, steeped only in his families beliefs and knew of nothing else. and promptly discovered alcohol once over here. if i'd known he was a teenage drunk, I'd have left that day. He plunged into corruption as soon as he met it, he liked it from the first taste.

I happen to think the lad's kept his priorities quite clear all along, in spite of various dramas.
> oh so do I. he obviously expected the riches from the git go. i agree with you there. He's never lost sight of the take at the door.

He was genuine [read 'click as snot] then, he's genuine[ly still so] now

and I certainly don't begrudge him his play-time or pleasures.
>I do. it's all done on other people's money he doesnt earn. mine included. i want that money back.
Why would you?
>i deserve that money. it was mine.
Is Maharaji running for Vice President and I haven't been informed?
> no. he's running for Savior of Mankind and failing at his own PR. He doesn't have the right.<

Gee, should we apply the Pat Robertson standard or the Bob Dylan standard to this guy's behavior
>sure. I think they would both find him equally objectionable. let's ask them.<

...or at what point along that vast spectrum? Let's see...
better behaved than Clinton
>hardly. I'd say theyre comparable. grandiose promises they made and didnt keep, a fatal taste for nubile young apprentices, lying to the law, lying to the people they swore to lead honorably, concealing land deals, collecting information on their enemies, abusing their power under color of authority-- yeah, definitely in the same class or utter lack of it.
clinton had 275 million immediate subjects his behabior and decisions impacted, and by extensio to the most powerful position in the modern world, 6 billion. maharaji has followers in 80 countries and claimed 6 million at the height of it. now he can reach anyone with a satellite dish. so their reach is comparable.
oh-- and they both forced the poor to go to work for them.

but worse than Al Gore?
>clearly<
Should he be as wild as Wolfgang Puck or Yogananda?
>'wild is a senseless word. delete. he's nothing like puck and worse than yogananda<

More like Margaret Thatcher or Allen Ginsberg?
in what aspect? i can see points of contrast, maharaji coming out beneath each of them.

Closer to Princess Di or Prince Charles?
definitely Charles. the infidelity, the marrying for prestige, convenience and heirs, then giving all their real interest to their mistresses.

Anita Bryant would be horrified; Pierre Trudeau would have some laughs.
>quite right. but he poses no threat to either where they live.<

What percentage of Maharaji's time and teachings would you say have been dedicated to telling others how to behave, how not to behave, who to fall in love with, what to look like, what to eat, how to express yourself, who to have sex with or what to believe blindly?
>when I came in, ALL OF IT. in fact, it hasnt changed. he still ridicules the world freely and his most thoughtlessly uttered opinions still have the impact of law on his listeners. i think CAC has proven the latest proof of that.

How much marriage counseling and love life advice has Maharaji given from the stage? Or off it? Whose personal habits have you heard him publicly criticize?
>how about the guy whose wife had just died, who stood up alone in an audience and begged him for some shred of help in his grief, and got publiclally humiliated before thousands as his reward? you know--the same guy who was so overcome at that response,, he went home and committed suicide by carbon monoxide poisoning that night? yeah--that guy. criticism from the stage or off it is about all he ever utters. we're all hopeless and can't come home and death is always waiting and you never know and whatever you're into is illusion except for ME, of course, so give me all ya got until your last breath<
What age, physical condition, sexual preference, religious background, nationality, literacy level or affluence status have you seen him unable to deal with or accept?
>he's a known homophobe of the purest distillation. the crude jokes, the crass remarks, the visible fear, the policies. CAC just finished reinforcing it again, or didnt you take the time to read?<

Do you realize that the behavioral cage you've tried to place Maharaji into is entirely based on theory and doesn't apply to anyone else on earth?
>oh hey, babe--he started it! he came to US telling us we couldnt view him like we viewed anyone else on earth! he still says so. he still reinforces it at every opportunity: 'never question the purity of the Master!' We're just grinding his face in his own shit. He shat it first. He set the rules. We play by em. He coulda come at this a very different way from the first, but he didnt. so we won't shut up. he made us eat his shit, so we're just returning the favor.<

Do you apply the same standard to what a brilliant musician is supposed to act like, what a painter is supposed to eat, should architects enjoy after dinner cognacs? How much should a writer weigh? What should or shouldn't Ray Charles smoke? Are exceptionally perceptive people not allowed to notice beauty in earthly as well as ephemeral formats?

>are exceptionally perceptive people not allowed to voice their observations of hypocritical religious leaders who live off others fortunes?<

So, the central thrust of this man's teachings,
NOW, SINCE HE HAS ABANDONED EVERYTHING HE LEARNED AT HOME FROM MOMMY AND DADDY, THE MINUTE HE GOT AWAY FROM THEM, AND COULD GLUT HIMSELF, WITHOUT ANYONE TO STOP HIM, HERE IN THE WESTERN WORLD, AND HAS WHOLE HOG CORRUPTED HIMSELF IN ALCOHOL,MEAT, SEX,DRUGS, SMOKES,CARS, MONEY,CLOTHES, JEWELRY,
PUBLIC ARGUMENTS,MISTRESSES, SEX OUTSIDE HIS MARRIAGE, TURNING FAITHFUL BELIEVERS INTO ONE NIGHT WHORES, COMMITTED INTERNATIONAL MONEYLAUNDERING, TRANSPORT ACROSS NATIONAL BORDERS TO EVADE THE LAW...

has virtually nothing to do with lifestyle, judgement, circumstances and personal behavior choices.
> HE CAN'T AFFORD TO, BABE. HE'S FILTHY AND HE KNOWS IT, SO HE DOESN'T DARE OPEN FIRE. HE KNOWS HE'S BE SLAUGHTERED . HE AVOIDS ANYTHING THAT WOULD GIVE IT A CHANCE TO HAPPEN.<

And you're trying to make him into a hypocrite
>WE DIDN'T MAKE HIM A HYPOCRIT. HE DID THAT HIMSELF. WE'RE JUST ILLUSTRATING HOW AND WHEN HE DOES IT.<

armed with quotes dating from before his voice changed.
> waht he said yesterday is perfectly suited to our purpose. you said it yourself--is purpose has never changed. 'me,me,me'

You are, from an entirely conceptual viewpoint, based on distant hearsay, trying to begrudge him from living in any way that is similar to you
>???????????????????????/
excuse me? similar to me or my friends??
i never set myself up as greater than god and worthy of all your riches! I never held an event at the astrodome telling the world i would bring peace to all!
I never have been driven in, ridden, driven, demanded or owned a rolls royce,a yacht, a jet, a mansion, a line for people to kiss my feet or exhorted people whose names i didnt know to send me their money all the rest of their lives!
I sure as hell don't hang with people who think fucking outside their marriage is no big thing or that it's deserved retribution and 'get-back' they can have their closest assistant go out and procure for them!

and most of your friends at similar points in your lives. Think about that.
>I honestly can state that I have NEVER had a point in my lide similar to anyhting in maharaji's. If i had, I know i wouldnt have become a follower of his; I'm sure I would have recognized fellow grifter at once and steered clear so as not to compete for the same prey.

That a pretty flimsy case for hypocrisy,
>the hypocrite's case always is.<

in fact, I'd rethink that before it doubles back on you.
> i know where my hypocrisies lie and i openly admit them. i apologize when i hurt someone. i make it up. read the 12 steps sometime.

Don't even think to mention the ashram, which I lived in. I didn't think for one moment I was there that Maharaji was living the same lifestyle as me,
>shows how effective your brainwashing was.how come it didnt occur to you?<

nor did he ever pretend or say that he was.
>no, he pretended to be something else. didn't he.<

Not once. He may not have broadcast his every raise of the elbow to the Missoula, Montana sisters house (and why should he, anyway?), but no one there in their right mind thought Maharaji was Mr. Rogers
>truthfully?, no one there WAS in their right mind.

or Dick Cheney (or Michael Dettmers).>this is anotehr senseless statement. for one, we didnt know dick cheney then, for two, he was irrelevant at that point, and michael dettmers is irelevant to the statement likewise. today, however, he is not. maharaji is no higher than dettmers and michael has shown far higher ethics, conscience, honesty, accountability, and responsiblity for what he committed than his former boss ever has. maharaji could take some valuable lessons from being like dettmers.

Can a truly high soul enjoy a burger?
>no. high souls dont feast on dead flesh and sentient beings with emotions, intelligence and lives of their own volition<

Is it conceivable that the Perfect Master would like females?
> the entire notion of 'the perfect master' is a falsity. there aint no such animal. he's just another person. and a pretty fucked up one, at that.<

Or is that entirely unnatural?
>he IS unnatural. look at him!

There are some real questions there. If you feel like it, take a look at 'em before going back into your Mr. Natural character.
>my character has been forged out of hard experience and repeated doses of reality testing. being 'natural' was the LAST thing a premie could be.<

I'll ask these again: What percentage of Maharaji's time and teachings would you say have been dedicated to telling others how to behave, how not to behave, who to fall in love with, what to look like, what to eat, how to express yourself, who to have sex with or what to believe blindly? How much marriage counseling and love life advice has Maharaji given from the stage? Or off it? Whose personal habits have you heard him publicly criticize? What age, physical condition, sexual preference, religious background, nationality, literacy level or affluence status have you seen him unable to deal with or accept?

ALL OF IT. all he can see is HIMSELF. you are nothing to him but a source of money, and he hates us.

What does any of this gossip really have to do with what he teaches? Anything at all?
>we are just trading what we know. is that forbidden? why does that upset you so? can't we talk? this is our lives we are telling each other about. what rule did we break? arent we allowed to talk about what happened to us? about how we felt or feel now? this is our past. we lived thru it. unlike some, we have chosen not to act as if it never happened, or to refashion it into some new fabrication that looks better, or disown it.
We know what we did, where we were, who we saw, what we were asked for. Try as you might, you can't take that away from me. Its my life. Not his; Mine.

Nitey-nite...

i assume this is your way of hit and run. you're afraid to come back and honestly put yourself here with us in real relationship and talk about it.

anyway, i answered you. I'll be here, even if you won't.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 13:33:20 (EDT)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: From harry on Lifes Grate
Subject: for Harry:start with 'Life With Knowledge'
Message:
'Life With Knowledge -- A Premie Guidebook'

r.e. lifestyles, Marriage, Vegetarianism, Drugs and Alcohol, Agya, being and living with other premies, Right versus Wrong, Habits, Schedule [weekdays/Sunday], Arti.

HIS words, a married man with kids, a self-proclaimed holier than thou Perfect Massa and HIS official org pamphlet for how premies should live.

Please do yer own homework, Harry, or you'll just have to repeat kindergarten again. Don't expect me to write yer research paper for you. I'm the professor.

Peace and lentils

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Date: Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 02:38:00 (EDT)
From: btdt
Email: None
To: suchabanana
Subject: Re: for Harry:start with 'Life With Knowledge'
Message:
Hey Yogi who is smarter than the average bear, those sandwiches stashed in the cave are pretty good.
Was this one baloney with chizzzzzzz whizzzzzzzz?-Boo Boo
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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 12:23:53 (EDT)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: From harry on Lifes Grate
Subject: my reply to hairball
Message:
My Dear Hairball:

you framed the question. so, I suggest that you spend 6 months pouring over every single m. video, every single m. cassette, every single m. article, and the testimony of every single eyewitness who has ever posted at ex-premie.org regarding miragey's comments and comportment. Then, and ONLY then, get back to me with yer findings.

I've got miragey quotes on marriage, lifestyles, all sorts of stuff -- but of course, your lil' copout will just be 'he said that 20 years ago.' You forgot: 'the message remains the same'. But he keeps changing the message - except for the lil' mantra 'what you are looking for is inside of you'. Guess what? I've known that all my life. m. has spoken of marriage and other aspects of lifestyles, and I have personally seen him single out individuals for ridicule. So, don't feed me yer caca ladus.

Hey, I don't begrudge him his playtime or pleasures -- but he indulged himself on the backs of hard-working impoverished premies -- like a disgusting unconscionable pig feeding at the spiritual trough. And he kept up a phony front to the premies, while living a jaded double life that he didn't want his premies living. You need to do a little research, kiddo, regarding what m. has said about materialism, da maya, marriage, drugs and alcohol, the worldliness, etc. He talks the talk -- but he sure don't walk da walk. Got it, dimwit? To me, his own greedy rotten game is Bullshit. Bullshit. It is spiritual caca ladus. Yeah, if he were just a private citizen, not making inflated claims about being a Massa and 'you can't come home without da Massa' etc. etc., then who [besides his family or employer] would give a flying bleep about his lifestyle? But, no, he set himself up as higher - not equal with - than other human beings. So, He - and nobody else - has set himself up for a Fall -- now. Got it, hairball?

Gee, when I was a lil' kid I didn't have doggie servants, a rich materialist guruship, and the title Born Lord God of the Yogis handed to me on a golden platter, and I didn't suddenly get up in public at 8 and proclaim myself the perfect master of the entire human race. No.

However, I was practicing my violin and performing music before crowds of people. But, you know, crowds are Not the measure of a musician or a guru. Integrity is. And maha has blown it on the integrity meter.
If you can't see it, then you be one blind cultist, kiddo. B-L-I-N-D! Crowds? Hitler drew huge crowds. So do those skanky mosh bands. So does pro wrestling. Crowds just Love freak shows -- like a lil' kid taught by dada to be a preacher-guru. Hans used lil' miragey as a come-on all the time to draw a crowd in N. India. Just like a good carnival barker! maha learned da game very early.

you wrote: 'Is it conceivable that the Perfect Master would like females?' 'femaleS'. He's married, hari, btw. If he's a Perfect master then he would honor his own marriage bed -- not defile it.

You refer to 'gossip'? No, we're talking about eyewitness accounts, and His own words, kiddo. That's not 'hearsay'.

you refer to a 'truly high soul'? that's yer stupid concept, hari. Got it? YER CONCEPT!! Fed to you by da CONCEPT-MAKER and bogus spiritualists. GOT IT? Inculcated by 'YOU-KNOW-WH0' and his org from day one.

btw, If you see Lardo, tell him to publicly renounce the charade and give back every bleepin' penny and rupee he ever EVER took from his devotees.

I'll leave you with a lil' Kabit [you know, miragey's favourite]:

'Also, you know that Saints cannot be bought with money; They do not expect and They do not accept anything from Their disciples. If anyone is accepting any worldly riches from his disciple, he is not a perfect Saint - because the Masters always earn Their own livelihood. They do not accept anything from Their disciples. If anyone is accepting, he is not a true Sadhu.' -- Kabir

Peace and lentils,

I came to my own conclusions only after exhaustive research, networking with other [ex]premies, and reflecting on my own direct experiences around m. and the cult.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 09:40:47 (EDT)
From: Gregg
Email: None
To: From harry on Lifes Grate
Subject: The Divine Mr. M.
Message:
Harry, you have a point. And there are a lot of spiritual teachers who have slept around, drank, etc, causing much debate in the community of spiritual seekers. Muktananda, Yogananda, and a whole bunch of Rinpoches. Oh, and Sai Baba. In fact, most of them. When gurus seduce their followers on the basis of their power, it's way uncool, like high school teachers seducing their students. On the other hand, these Lotharios say that their students are the only ones they know!

I have lots of problems with M, but work starts in a few minutes, so let me summarize: M is not much of a teacher. He doesn't give evidence of having spent any time in meditation. Not much guidance is given. And he is way too disingenuous - to the point of untruthfulness - about how he ond his premies view his role.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 13:28:48 (EDT)
From: Dirk
Email: None
To: Gregg
Subject: Re: The Divine Mr. M.
Message:
You mention Yogananda as one who 'slept around'??? Any Substantiation on that?? I always felt Yogananda was a sincere Yogi. HE Never Claimed to be God or demanded devotion to Him. He always seemed to defer all the Credit to God and not his ego/personality. Any clarification will be greatly appreciated.
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Date: Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 07:16:02 (EDT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Dirk
Subject: a bastard son of his is..
Message:
the cause of a huge uproar in los angelese right now because the two factions ofyogananda's legacy stand to forfeit all of their wealth and inheritance to this one humble heir yogananda sired while supposedly celibate.
yes he slept around.
look it up in recent issues of the
http://www.newtimesla.com

online. it was the cover article sometime in the last three months.

or maybe it was http://www.laweekly.com

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 15:13:09 (EDT)
From: Steve
Email: None
To: Dirk
Subject: Yoganada
Message:
Hi Dirk,

I was quite surprised too. I read that someone was claiming to be Yogananda's son. It was proven by DNA that he wasn't . Apparently Yogananda
let his celibate status slip when confronted with the temptation of those honey pies in the States during the liberated pre war era. Funny he didn't mention that in his autobiography ? Maybe it was after he finished writing the book though.
Seems that they all have their skeletons in the closet. Human beings , every last one of 'em, and nothing wrong with that.

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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 04:45:35 (EDT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Steve
Subject: Re: Yogananda and the DNA
Message:
actually, the president of the ashrams came to the sons house and took the samples but never let anyone know how the test came out. it was probably positive and that would mean the forgeit of the empire, so they concealed it.
the son and his friends are now piqued and are going to get their own testing done. they dont covet the estate, they just wonder themselves wwhether its true, once and for all.

go read the article. i have it in print but not online. its easy to find. it was the cover story.
use those two links and the search engine once you're on site. its very recent.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 15:48:10 (EDT)
From: Dirk
Email: None
To: Steve
Subject: Re: Yogananda and Celibacy
Message:
Steve,
So you said it was proven by the DNA tests that he Was NOT the Son of Yogananda? Then Yogananda's celibate status is still intact. Yes?
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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 17:58:23 (EDT)
From: Steve
Email: None
To: Dirk
Subject: Re: Yogananda and Celibacy
Message:
Yes Dirk,

Why does it matter ? Maybe he did maybe he didn't ?

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 09:36:48 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: From harry on Lifes Grate
Subject: From Harry on Lifes(sic) Grate
Message:
You said:

What percentage of Maharaji's time and teachings would you say have been dedicated to telling others how to behave, how not to behave, who to fall in love with, what to look like, what to eat, how to express yourself, who to have sex with or what to believe blindly? How much marriage counseling and love life advice has Maharaji given from the stage? Or off it? Whose personal habits have you heard him publicly criticize? What age, physical condition, sexual preference, religious background, nationality, literacy level or affluence status have you seen him unable to deal with or accept?

I say, pretty near 100%.

http://www.ex-premie.org/papers/Amanual.htm#preface

Read all about it. Maharaji, who proclaimed he was Lord of the Universe, had a lot to say about ashram premies, and I remember well the demands, the ''agya'' the ridicule he gave us, and not in public, just to us ashram premies, or were you asleep under your blanket then?

I dare you to read the pages from the above link and come back and try to defend that Maharaji never has told anyone how to live.

By the way, after DECA, I spend quite a few months in DLM headquarters in Miami Beach running a divorce mill with a DLM attorney. I can't count how many divorces were arranged through DLM for the premies who were married (and many with children).

Maharaji is responsible for that because he wanted ashram premies to work on the Deca 707 plane because it was CHEAPER than putting married folk on the payroll. A divorce mill. I was there. I served papers, I typed papers, I watched marriages break apart so that the GOLDEN ONE could have a jet he never even liked.

It was a cult, it is a cult, and continues to be a cult. Whatever revisions EV/Maharaji want to make are indeed relevant to the argument.

Go ahead, read the page about ashrams. And then think about the lives he threw away with one agya out of his mouth.

There is proof.

So there.
It's a cult.
Cynthia

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 13:16:00 (EDT)
From: such
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: miragey on marriage:
Message:
On marriage: 'What people do is they say, okay, we have to get married now, and then they get married. After some time they think oh no, I don't think I like this thing. I think I better get back to do service. And they leave their wives and they come back and it's like, they want to do service again, and they're really confused and I say, 'Man, do one thing. Make your decision whether you want to get married and stay married. You understand. Don't get divorced in two weeks because that is the most terrible thing you can do.' -- Maharaji

from Life With Knowledge, A Premie Guidebook

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 08:15:23 (EDT)
From: Bob
Email: None
To: From harry on Lifes Grate
Subject: Re: Hey Jim and Joe argue with this
Message:
Rawat does nothing else than telling his people how to behave.
'synchronisation', 'should participate', 'should propagate',.
If you don't like it you can walk away and enjoy the 'greatest gift' turn into rotten veggies and ex premies into psychos'.
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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 07:56:23 (EDT)
From: Carl
Email: None
To: From harry on Lifes Grate
Subject: Good points, Harry. However . . .
Message:
You say something very curious, Harry: 'So, the central thrust of this man's [M's} teachings has virtually nothing to do with lifestyle, judgement, circumstances and personal behavior choices.'

Let me ask: Just how valid, sincere, inspiring or effective would be the teaching of a writer who doesn't write, of a musician who won't or cannot perform adequately, of a meditator who doesn't meditate, of an investment counselor who begs for alms, a mathematician who cannot count to ten?

Some people may be excused for thinking that a 'true spiritual master' would proffer more than banalities and impart more than public domain meditation techniques in an atmosphere of secrecy and exclusivity while exacting personal adoration and cash from his devotees.

Does M position himself as God incarnate, or even greater than God? Yes he does. Now, don't be coy, Harry. You know this is the fundamental subtext to the whole enterprise.

Does M now lie about that? Yes he does.

Does M continue to arrange for activities such as arti/darshan/footkissing to take place? Yes he does.

Did M cause the death of another man and lie about it to avoid all responsibility? Yes he did.

Did M knowingly put children and others into harms way by deciding to facilitate and promote the proselytising activities of certain 'saints' who had violent and/or psychosexual pathologies, thereby inflicting serious physical and psychological damage upon a number of victims? Yes he did.

Did or does M regularly ingest alcohol and other drugs while at the same time promoting an experience of inner divinity and peace, and yet condemn the use of the same drugs he ingests? Evidently, yes.

Does he claim or assume a divine status, far above mere mortals, for doing this. Yes he does.

Does M fail to see any hypocrisy in this? Evidently, yes.

Does M enrich himself and his immediate family in an astoundingly lavish and opulent lifestyle far, far in excess of any need, primarily on donated or psychologically coerced labor of 'followers' around the world? Yes he does.

Does M regard himself as above the laws of this world that are designed to mete out justice equally for all people regardless of their social standing? One wonders about that.

I would like you to review the following material and report back please:

Identifying Traits of Abusive Groups

We offer a shorthand list followed by a longer list of cultic traits compiled from: Recovery From Cults, by Michael D. Langone, Captive Hearts, Captive Minds, by Madeleine Tobias and Janja Lalich, 'Crazy' Therapies, by Margaret Singer and Janja Lalich, Combating Cult Mind Control, by Steven Hassan

Michael Langone, in his article 'Cults, Violence, and the Millennium,' suggests the following three characteristics as essential in the definition of a cultic group:

1. centralized control by a charismatic leader
2. an us-versus-them mentality that isolates
3. a lack of tolerance for dissent

Compiled list:

1.Control-oriented leadership – leader claims to be an all-knowing, liberated being.

2.Hierarchical structure with an elite inner circle – including leader’s assistants.

3.Group leader not accountable to any authorities, as are, for example: military commanders, and ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream denominations.

4.Polarized us-versus-them, black-or-white mentality causing conflict with wider society.

5.Manipulation of members by alternating guilt/anxiety/fear/ostracism and attention.

6.Group perception of being spiritually unique/elite and separate from normal culture.

7.Denunciation of other spiritual/religious leaders and groups.

8.Mind-numbing techniques (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, and debilitating work routines) are used to suppress doubts about group and leader.

9.Spiritual practices emphasize experience rather than rationality.

10.Sexual abuse - leader uses power to sexually exploit members.

11.Economic exploitation of members by leader and assistants.

12.Confidentiality of members private affairs (legal, medical) violated by leader and assistants.

13.Members’ subservience to group causes them to cut or weaken ties with family, friends, and personal goals and activities that were of interest before joining group.

14.Reliance on outside professional help, doctors, therapists, etc., discouraged.

15.Leader poses as self-sacrificing divine agent who only promotes members’ well-being.

16.Service is inner directed toward the group not the surrounding community.

17.Revamping of members’ cultural/moral values to suit leader’s lifestyle and program.

18.Conformity to group’s/leader’s values, life style, mode of dress, diet, esthetics, and so on.

19.Promotion of dependence on group/leader – often disguised.

20.Important personal decisions must be approved by leader – members seek his blessing.

21.Phobia induction vis-ŕ-vis leaving the group/leader.

22.Painful exit process – ex-members ridiculed, threatened, and dumped.

Note: If you check any of these items as characteristics of the group you are concerned about, and particularly if you check many of them, you should reexamine the group and your relationship to it. Such reexamination usually runs against the dictates of the group leaders and will be difficult for the member to do. Begin by speaking to outside health and legal professionals and ex-members. If your group is indeed healthy and non-abusive, there is nothing to fear from taking these cautionary steps.


---

---
-

Thought provoking, yes? You see, Harry, life is great, even while challenging one's assumptions and delusions. Your breath by breath awareness and freedom can only improve when you are free of cultish dependency. You may even find yourself 'closer to God' and much more in tune with, and in love with, the breath of life.

Good luck, buddy.
Carl

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 05:54:04 (EDT)
From: thatswhy
Email: None
To: From harry on Lifes Grate
Subject: he gagged prems
Message:
one of his smart moves heh?
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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 06:33:23 (EDT)
From: ggg
Email: None
To: thatswhy
Subject: You just don't get it . . .
Message:
To the Harry person from Life's Great

God you guys just don't get it do you. I don't what you were replying to Mr Harry from Life's Great, but it sounds SO defensive to me. Why should you be so defensive and offensive around someone who is proclaiming, did proclaim and still believes he is a holy man. a Master no less.

We do not give a flying monkey about all the personages you have also tried to disseminate with your vile satire, the point is this man-M - preached a lifestyle of peace, love and truth.

TRUTH do you get that, we were the company of TRUTH.
Shall I spell it Again TRUTH . . .

So why A gigantic SCHISM, character flaw eg - Dr Jekyll by day, and Mr Hyde by night.

No it is not good enough to say it doesn't matter, I do not accept that. It does matter when you set yourself up as leader of a vast number of innocent people, you carry a responsibility, and responsibility means clear thinking, and maintaining integrity.

Integrity, ever heard of integrity.

We don't expect politicians to come with integrity, but holymen traditionally do. Are you going to tell me now that holymen are holy despite their nuances. Don't tell me its only my concepts.

OK so it would have been fine if Mother Theresa were a drunken tart then as long as she dedicated her life to looking after the poor and sick as long as noone told anyone that she was a drunken slag.

If he was selling icecream I doubt if we would have cared less, but to be selling peace love truth and all the rest and turn out to be less than mortal does beggar a lot of questioning.

You are so deluded poor man, I can only hope that one day you too will see the error of your schizoid thinking. Don't do as I do, just do as I say.

love and good vibes
GGG

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 00:18:43 (EDT)
From: Mummiji
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Testing for Saucy ... (nt)
Message:
The things I do for that boy! (Ooops, I mean grumpy middle-aged man)
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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 01:19:42 (EDT)
From: saucy
Email: None
To: Mummiji
Subject: yah yah
Message:
hello mumji. vas duz echt?
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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 12:27:12 (EDT)
From: Mummiji
Email: None
To: saucy
Subject: Sorry, Saucy, did I embarrass you?
Message:
You know how hard it is for your old Mummiji to keep track of all the different time zones at these forums. :(

Lovijis and hugsijis,

Your Ever-loving Mummiji

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 00:03:34 (EDT)
From: RichMandrake
Email: None
To: All
Subject: CHRIS DICKEY DELETED THIS FROM LG
Message:
the Life Is Great Forum..I wonder why?...Here for your viewing Pleasure is the Banned material:

APOSTATE: One who has abandoned What He Once Believe In...that is the definition in my (albeit abridged) dictionary..The Damning accusation of the CAC Mob...
Well,I guess, I too am an Apostate.
I once Believed Maharaji Was the Lord of Creation..
I no Longer do.
I once believed Maharaji was here to bring peace to the whole world.
I no Longer do
I once believed that when Maharaji told us to pray to him...He could listen to those Prayers.
I no longer do.
I once believed that somehow Maharaji Owned the
Techniques of Meditation he Called Knowledge..Even though he said it was Already inside me..and was Me..and that the Knowledge only worked if he gave me his 'Grace'
I no longer do.
I once believed that when Maharaji told me that the purpose of My life was to surrender to him..to give everything to him...It was for My sake..and not his...
I no longer do.
I once believed that when Maharaji contradicted himself, refused to explain things and denied the truth...It was somehow to help me surrender..and further his goal to bring peace to the world.
I no longer do.
I once believed that Maharaji was merged into a state of such peace and joy that taking one drink of alcohol would be totally unappealing to him, much less becoming drunk several nights
a week for years on end.
I no longer do.
I once thought Maharaji was the Incarnation of the Highest Ideals of Humanity...and that he would be incapable of using premies for his own ends..or premie women for his own sexual gratification.
I no longer do.
I Once thought that I was on the Highest Path of
Realization...Fortunate beyond belief to be a devotee of the Living Lord...who would eventually explain the Incredible Lila of being God..and then Denying that he was..or even Ever Claimed to Be..
Alas...and Finally...I No longer do.
I am an Apostate..Sadly...One who has Abandoned what he Once so Devoutly Believed in....and yet Ironically only after finding out that the One to whom I gave my Love andAdoration ...had
already Abandoned Me.
The Idealism of My Youth..The Hunger of My Heart..Attached to what had become a Tortured Dream Of Unfullfilled Promise...thinking that It was I ....who had failed The Dream....Now and Finally..I am Finding it Was The Dream...That Failed Me...and So Sadly...the not so Perfect
Master...
Life IS Great...but not so the...the not so Perfect Master..
Greetings...Fellow Apostates....RichMandrake

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 19:14:11 (EDT)
From: XXX
Email: None
To: RichMandrake
Subject: Re-formatted version of CHRIS DICKEY DELETE
Message:
Here is an easier to read, re-formatted version of the subject message.
______________________________________________________________________

APOSTATE: One who has abandoned what he once believed.

That is the definition in my (albeit abridged) dictionary. That is the damning accusation of the CAC Mob. Well, I guess, I too am an Apostate.

- I once believed Maharaji was the Lord of Creation. I no longer do.

- I once believed Maharaji was here to bring peace to the whole world. I no longer do

- I once believed that when Maharaji told us to pray to him he could listen to those Prayers. I no longer do.

- I once believed that somehow Maharaji owned the Techniques of Meditation he called Knowledge. Even though he said it was already inside me and was me and that the Knowledge only worked if he gave me his 'Grace.' I no longer do.

- I once believed that when Maharaji told me that the purpose of my life was to surrender to him, to give everything to him. It was for My sake and not his. I no longer do.

- I once believed that when Maharaji contradicted himself, refused to explain things and denied the truth, it was somehow to help me surrender and further his goal to bring peace to the world. I no longer do.

- I once believed that Maharaji was merged into a state of such peace and joy that taking one drink of alcohol would be totally unappealing to him, much less becoming drunk several nights a week for years on end. I no longer do.

- I once thought Maharaji was the Incarnation of the highest Ideals of Humanity and that he would be incapable of using premies for his own ends or premie women for his own sexual gratification. I no longer do.

- I once thought that I was on the Highest Path of Realization. Fortunate beyond belief to be a devotee of the Living Lord who would eventually explain the incredible lila of being God and then denying that he was, or even ever claimed to be. Alas and finally, I no longer do.

I am an Apostate, sadly. One who has abandoned what he once so devoutly believed in and yet, ironically, only after finding out that the one to whom I gave my love and adoration had already abandoned me.

The idealism of my youth and the hunger of my heart attached to what had become a tortured dream of unfulfilled promise. Thinking that it was I who had failed the dream, now and finally, I am finding it was the dream that failed me, and so sadly, the Not-so Perfect Master

Life is Great, but not so the Not-so Perfect Master.

Greetings, fellow apostates!

Rich Mandrake

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 19:11:55 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: RichMandrake
Subject: Another 'Lies Great' conspiracy
Message:
Rich,

Chris Dickey is running scared. He doesn't know his ass from his elbow. Really. He was confronted by the fact that I told him he was culpable for the pre-knowledge and condoning of this CAC attack.

Now the idiot left all kinds of clues foreshadowing this knowledge.

He has a real name and should be concerned about his involvement. not only that, he is the FA of the forum and therefore has known every bongo coming through the site since SirDave gave him the forum.

Another reason Chris Dickey should be concerned is that he wrote very taunting posts to people when the CAC shit site opened and did not hide the fact that he was over-joyed to hear about it. He was bragging that it was deserved and asking people for their photos.

Chris doesn't want to hear that his name is on shit lists and that he stands to be convicted of participating in this crime.

He also doesn't want anyone like you confornting him of the idiocy of the allegations. Chris Dickey has too much to lose.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 10:53:04 (EDT)
From: michael donner
Email: None
To: RichMandrake
Subject: Re: CHRIS DICKEY DELETED THIS FROM LG
Message:
hi rich, wonderful, insightful, humorous post...sadly funny and ironic. add my name to the list of folks who could draw up the same list and i no longer do either! especially...what was that world peace thing all about? anyway..thanks for the insights and honesty, if current premies could dig down and honestly look at all stuff that originally attached them to m...they would probably have similiar stuff and would be similiarly disappointed...at least disappointed....if they would allow themselves to feel what is real inside themselves...but digging too deep and gettng honest with the past is not easy i guess...i know.
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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 02:13:59 (EDT)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: RichMandrake
Subject: Great post, Richard, and..
Message:
..what's ironic about it's deletion is that there is absolutely nothing 'off-topic' about it, even by CD's latest idiosyncratic definition, wherein all posts must seemingly now address the possibility that Lifes [sic] Great. Your post indeed affirms this possibility and explains why in some detail.

I think heneceforth LG posts must either say 'Lifes Great' or 'No I don't think Lifes Great', and leave it at that. I mean, that's what a discussion forum's for, right..?

Or something...

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 00:38:20 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: RichMandrake
Subject: Re: CHRIS DICKEY DELETED THIS FROM LG
Message:
Rich: Don't feel badly that your post was deleted. We appreciate it here. It is a badge of honor that your thoughts and concerns needed to vanish from the premie site. Get used to it.

Welcome, old friend.

Marianne

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 02:38:31 (EDT)
From: RichMandrake
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: This Time Chris left it Up...
Message:
thanks, Marianne and Nigel...actually I posted it again..and this time Chris (so far) didnt delete it...though he felt compelled to express that it was NOT what he wanted on the His Forum (which is his right)...As One who only a month ago read about the Real Maha/Rawat...I am still having bouts of Anger...over what I perceive as the Betrayal by The 'Master'...It is Still Very Difficult to Believe that the Man who I Considered the Incarnation of the Highest Ideals Of Humanity...is Actually an Alcoholic of less then impeccable character..but it is even Harder to Deny it.....this Anger may not be the most productive emotion...but after 28 years with Maha/Rawat...it is something Im working through..Hopefully..Thanx, Again...Rich
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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 19:23:27 (EDT)
From: Deborha
Email: None
To: RichMandrake
Subject: Don't feel bad for feeling bad :(
Message:
Rich,

If you didn't have these bouts of anger, I'd be worried about you. Really. Sometimes it hits me as bouts of sadness. Important for me to also have drinks only when I'm with other people. The introspection is not always welcomed.

Try talking to people of- forum. I found it really helps. The exes don't mind getting ranting email, they understand what you are going through, believe me. It helps a lot!!! Maybe invest in a phone call or two. It's worth your while.

Fondly,

Deborah

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 04:17:30 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: RichMandrake
Subject: Hey Rich, my anger lasted for
Message:
about six months after first divorcing the urug. It wasn't there all the time but came and went and came again at the most surprising times. I would read a post or a Journey and suddenly think of how the little bastard used me. Of course I also was quite pissed off with myself in having swallowed it without checking it out.

The trouble is I swallowed it when I was young and did not bother to check things out but was swept up in feeling and excitement. Live and learn. I've stopped beating myself up for being dumb and realized that there is nothing wrong with me or with my enthusiasm.

What's wrong is that the youthful enthusiasm was co-opted and abused. It's too late to say that I wish I had listened to my dear departed mother when she said to me in 1973, ''He's playing games with you. How can you trust a game-player?'' At that time games seemed like fun. It was all divine lila. ;)

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