Ex-Premie Forum 7 Archive
From: Oct 07, 2001 To: Oct 14, 2001 Page: 3 of: 5


Steve Quint -:- A Funny Thing Happened -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 12:43:43 (EDT)
__ Jim -:- Was his girlfriend there? -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 15:02:18 (EDT)
__ __ Cynthia -:- That would be precious, Jim... -:- Sun, Oct 14, 2001 at 00:21:05 (EDT)
__ __ Disculta -:- Re: Was his girlfriend there? -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 15:12:56 (EDT)
__ Cynthia -:- Re: A Funny Thing Happened -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 13:57:27 (EDT)
__ __ gerry -:- Steve how was it? -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 14:26:43 (EDT)
__ __ __ Steve Quint -:- Re: Steve how was it? -:- Fri, Oct 12, 2001 at 01:36:35 (EDT)
__ __ __ Brian Smith -:- The last time I saw Charanand?? -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 19:20:39 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ magiclara -:- Re: The last time I saw Charanand? -:- Fri, Oct 12, 2001 at 04:32:46 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Too funny, Clara -:- Fri, Oct 12, 2001 at 05:15:30 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ magiclara -:- Re: Too funny, Clara -:- Fri, Oct 12, 2001 at 07:05:16 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Francesca :C) -:- EXCELLENT POST BRIAN! -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 20:06:27 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Tonette -:- That's really funny Francesca and Thanks Brian nt -:- Fri, Oct 12, 2001 at 03:38:32 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Brian Smith -:- Thanks Francesca -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 23:51:22 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- EXCELLENT POST BRIAN! Thanks. [nt] -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 20:31:00 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ gerry -:- Shouldn't ask for more, but... -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 19:39:07 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Brian Smith -:- no detectable odor -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 23:28:42 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ btdt -:- Re: no detectable odor -:- Fri, Oct 12, 2001 at 09:53:01 (EDT)

Mr. Dooley -:- re: Lifes Great/ a reliable source.. -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 09:17:47 (EDT)
__ suchabanana -:- heads we win/tales they lose -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 17:24:42 (EDT)
__ Jim -:- IS THIS TRUE? -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 11:26:26 (EDT)

Jean-Michel -:- The 4 'axioms' of spirituality ! -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 06:11:26 (EDT)
__ Tonette -:- Don't you mean the 4 'toxins' of spirituality? nt -:- Fri, Oct 12, 2001 at 04:07:15 (EDT)
__ Jerry -:- This one's my favorite -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 11:27:24 (EDT)
__ Jerry -:- This one' -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 11:25:42 (EDT)
__ Jerry -:- Tough bargain -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 09:21:56 (EDT)

salam -:- is this true?,,,,,,,,,,,,,, [ot] -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 04:07:41 (EDT)
__ Stonor -:- LOL!!! -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 15:13:10 (EDT)
__ __ salam -:- Re: LOL!!! -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 20:41:22 (EDT)
__ __ __ Stonor -:- Re: LOL!!! -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 21:23:38 (EDT)
__ Scott T. -:- Salam, you better watch out -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 11:57:04 (EDT)
__ __ salam -:- Re: Salam, you better watch out -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 13:16:56 (EDT)
__ Pat:C) -:- One excuse is as good as another -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 04:20:55 (EDT)
__ __ such -:- re box lunches,bananas,eatin out - or gas 'em... -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 06:08:40 (EDT)
__ __ __ berni -:- Re: re box lunches,bananas,eatin out .... -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 16:46:50 (EDT)

Sarlo's Update -:- New link to Ex-Premie.org -:- Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 19:50:57 (EDT)
__ such -:- Muktananda,Rajneesh,da Free John,Rudi,Chetananda -:- Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 21:42:10 (EDT)
__ __ such -:- Muktananda:a corrupt,violent + sexual abuser, too! -:- Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 22:03:09 (EDT)
__ __ __ btdt -:- Thanks for finding this! -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 06:37:22 (EDT)
__ suchabanana -:- from Da Audi Free John exes: -:- Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 20:50:00 (EDT)
__ __ such -:- Wow! what parallels!!! -:- Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 21:30:24 (EDT)
__ __ __ such -:- Nityananda,Rudi,Gurdjieff,et encore -:- Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 21:47:24 (EDT)
__ __ such -:- da 'jargon of surrender and grace.' -:- Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 21:04:57 (EDT)

Disculta -:- Maharaji caught in blatant lie -:- Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 19:24:26 (EDT)
__ Abi -:- Re: Maharaji caught in blatant lie -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 12:39:05 (EDT)
__ __ Katie -:- Yes! Disculta and Abi -:- Sat, Oct 13, 2001 at 12:54:55 (EDT)
__ __ Jim -:- Save this post -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 13:39:22 (EDT)
__ __ __ Abi -:- Re: Save this post -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 13:57:35 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Abi -:- A couple of questions... -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 14:11:59 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Abi -:- answers as such -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 15:38:16 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Barbara -:- Good point, Cynthia -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 14:33:02 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Sorry^Above is from me.... [nt] -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 14:13:08 (EDT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- No not THIS one, that one [nt] -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 13:51:18 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- No, no that one either .. THAT one [nt] -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 13:51:57 (EDT)
__ Jim -:- SOOOOOO true, Disculta -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 11:25:00 (EDT)
__ __ cq -:- Re: SOOOOOO true, Disculta -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 12:47:20 (EDT)
__ btdt -:- Re: Maharaji caught in blatant lie -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 06:51:14 (EDT)
__ __ Abi -:- Re: Maharaji caught in blatant lie -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 12:47:53 (EDT)
__ __ __ btdt -:- Re: Maharaji caught in blatant lie -:- Fri, Oct 12, 2001 at 10:04:44 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ bill -:- remind your dad of that [nt] -:- Sat, Oct 13, 2001 at 09:52:14 (EDT)
__ __ __ cq -:- Re: Maharaji caught in blatant lie -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 14:30:28 (EDT)
__ Deborah -:- Re: Maharaji caught in blatant lie -:- Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 22:38:28 (EDT)
__ __ btdt -:- complaint form -:- Fri, Oct 12, 2001 at 10:12:17 (EDT)

hamzen -:- Scott/Jim/PC/Gregg & virii(sp?) OT -:- Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 19:17:47 (EDT)
__ Pat:C) -:- Well, thanks for nothing -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 04:11:34 (EDT)

Suedoula -:- Staying on 'topic' Just my Opinion -:- Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 18:51:46 (EDT)
__ cq -:- Re: Staying on 'topic' Just my Opinion -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 07:22:41 (EDT)
__ salam -:- Re: Staying on 'topic' Just my Opinion -:- Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 22:55:38 (EDT)
__ __ Suedoula -:- Re: Staying on 'topic' Just my Opinion -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 09:42:50 (EDT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- Will you please shut up already? -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 11:31:59 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ salam -:- Re: Will you please shut up already? -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 13:22:20 (EDT)
__ gerry -:- Re: Staying on 'topic' Just my Opinion -:- Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 19:12:59 (EDT)
__ __ Selene -:- one thing I agree with -:- Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 20:17:11 (EDT)

JHB -:- Life is Great but I can't say so! -:- Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 17:38:22 (EDT)
__ hamzen -:- Re: Life is Great but I can't say so! -:- Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 18:32:41 (EDT)
__ Susan -:- Re: Life is Great but I can't say so! -:- Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 18:27:47 (EDT)
__ __ Disculta -:- Was it me? -:- Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 19:15:21 (EDT)
__ __ __ hamzen -:- Have you still got a copy? -:- Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 19:29:36 (EDT)
__ __ __ Mickey the Pharisee -:- Re: Was it me? -:- Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 19:23:36 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Selene -:- that was a funny post -:- Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 20:23:11 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ O -:- Re: that was a funny post -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 01:48:59 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- agree completely -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 11:22:04 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jennifer Goodanrich -:- No posts on LG for a year or so? -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 12:32:50 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- What are YOU going on about? -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 12:39:29 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- thanks Jim and regarding LG -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 13:22:41 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Yes Jim! -:- She pressed a sore button. But... -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 13:19:03 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Hamzen's a he (how 'bout you?) -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 13:50:16 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Naw, it wasn't AGYA -:- Just CD playing power games -:- Fri, Oct 12, 2001 at 03:26:39 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ You mean me? -:- some of the insults I've endured? -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 00:04:09 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- hi SC WC PP VD etc :) -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 11:15:19 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- ps SC regarding subject line above,e tc. -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 12:15:54 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ SC -:- Ok Selene, no sweat. -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 12:56:02 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- thanks SC -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 13:09:16 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ SC -:- Same here Selene :) -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 13:24:01 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ salam -:- So?:) -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 13:26:11 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- hi Salam OT -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 13:38:07 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ salam -:- Re: hi Salam OT -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 20:45:44 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Until LG open to all - block all premies -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 03:34:41 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- they are already blocked -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 11:29:22 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Good day, Selene -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 13:33:32 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ CW -:- Re: Good day, Selene -:- Fri, Oct 12, 2001 at 10:23:19 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ CW -:- Re: Until LG open to all - block all premies -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 04:55:58 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Well, Cat, what's the story? -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 11:28:53 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ CW -:- -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 18:38:47 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ salam -:- they could be sharing satsang -:- Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 23:01:50 (EDT)

gerry -:- Scott, I'm sorry -:- Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 17:22:24 (EDT)
__ Deborah -:- Have you unblocked Scott yet? -:- Fri, Oct 12, 2001 at 19:34:35 (EDT)
__ AJW -:- You Must Use The Power. -:- Fri, Oct 12, 2001 at 10:21:30 (EDT)
__ cq -:- Re: Scott, I'm sorry -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 07:30:15 (EDT)
__ Scott T. -:- I'm not on yet -:- Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 22:43:30 (EDT)
__ salam -:- FA tantrum no 63 -:- Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 22:02:47 (EDT)
__ __ gerry -:- Re: FA tantrum no 69 -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 09:22:55 (EDT)
__ __ __ salam -:- Re: FA tantrum no 69 -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 13:30:46 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Oh no! Salam spelling or joke? -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 14:12:43 (EDT)
__ Tim G -:- Re: Scott, I'm sorry -:- Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 18:48:42 (EDT)
__ Sir Dave }( -:- Silly -:- Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 17:42:39 (EDT)
__ __ gerry -:- That's it, yer blocked !!! -:- Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 18:03:03 (EDT)
__ Joe -:- Better Watch out, Gerry -:- Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 17:29:56 (EDT)
__ Francesca :C) -:- We will all make mistakes -:- Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 17:25:02 (EDT)

Pat:C) -:- Rawat Broadcast: Cause a Global Effect -:- Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 13:02:27 (EDT)
__ Timmi -:- Re: Rawat Broadcast: Cause a Global Effect -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 21:25:09 (EDT)
__ Tonette -:- Suck them dry Maharaji -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 01:56:53 (EDT)
__ No name -:- Hey Ratwat...... -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 01:46:50 (EDT)
__ Bob -:- always begging for $$$ -:- Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 15:49:27 (EDT)
__ __ Joe -:- $$$ and Maharaji.. Isn't it interestingg??g??g?? -:- Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 16:11:48 (EDT)
__ __ __ Joy -:- They're Ripping off Buddhist Terminology -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 03:59:13 (EDT)


Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 12:43:43 (EDT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: All
Subject: A Funny Thing Happened
Message:
I bumped into Stuart McDougall on the way home yesterday and he told me that Charanand would be speaking at a program nearby in one hour.

I went. Charanand was charming, but the videos were not impressive. Maharaji speaks in trivialities and is condescending. His limited education is very apparent, and he shouts and scorns to make up for it. I feel like an idiot to have attended his talks for years.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 15:02:18 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Steve Quint
Subject: Was his girlfriend there?
Message:
If I ever see that guy the first thing I'm going to ask him is about is celibacy. He enjoyed being paraded as a living testament to the fullness and propriety of a celibate life of devotion and selfless sacrifice to one's guru. A little boring music, a little food, a little tennis and lots and lots of satsang, service, meditation and darshan. Apparently, though, he's had one or more relationships for years.

You got a phone number for him, Steve? Seriously. I'm in the mood for a little chit chat.

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Date: Sun, Oct 14, 2001 at 00:21:05 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: That would be precious, Jim...
Message:
...yes, I'd love to know about his life of ''celebicy'' just for my personal peace of mind....

I believe the last time I looked him up on the internet he was in Southern Florida...but what do I know???

Cynth

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 15:12:56 (EDT)
From: Disculta
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Was his girlfriend there?
Message:
If I had the energy I'd ask him the same thing. I hope you talk to him.

love ktd

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 13:57:27 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Steve Quint
Subject: Re: A Funny Thing Happened
Message:
Hi Steve,

Charanand has always been charming. A great facade for a cult PAM. If you feel like an idiot for attending M's programs for years, you certainly not alone.

Hope you're well,
Love,
Cynthia

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 14:26:43 (EDT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Steve how was it?
Message:
Steve,

I haven't seen a mahatma in decades. What did he say, and what was he wearing? Was there a 'vibe' thing going, you know, that group buzz? I can't imagine it was anything like the excitement of the 'old days.'

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Date: Fri, Oct 12, 2001 at 01:36:35 (EDT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: gerry
Subject: Re: Steve how was it?
Message:
See Brian's post below. Maybe five percent of the people seem normal or as happy as an average person. The others seem to be hanging in for better or worse and seem to be trying to figure out what's going on or what went wrong. Charanand sang a bit, getting weaker, was interesting, and gave a line or two of credit to Maharaji at the beginning and end of the talk, kind of like tv or move credits.
He's a very positive guy and I like that. But in his case the positivity may be enabling him to turn a blind eye to the garbage that his boss is putting out. I think he does it out of respect for Prem's father.

Steve

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 19:20:39 (EDT)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: The last time I saw Charanand??
Message:
He came to Portland a few months before m did last year, probably on a scouting excursion, to see if we were worthy of having the goober visit our fair city. Anyway I was still in the cult back then under the influence but I recall feeling a bit of a strange vibe from the char and his crew and the overall group even then.

The group in attendance seemed to be more engrossed in who's who, who had the inside track to what was going on and who had knowledge the longest etc.

There was the ackward fumbling and fawning around char, and the obligatory 'we love you mahatma ji' bit ringing out from the cheap seats. Even that did not seem to lift char out of his subdued serious demeaner.

There were 4 of them with char, all wearing good suits, char included, like a gang of mafioso hitmen, very serious. Char did not seem to be as on, or enlightened as he used be to for some reason. He had grown out his hair, even though almost bald on top, he had the fringe slicked and greased back along the sides with the hair in the back just over the collar. I was sitting directly behind him and I got a good long look. I think I found the back of charanand's head more interesting than what was being said in the front of the room anyway. I had heard all of that same stuff many times before, This was the first time I could ever remember seeing him with hair.

People from all over the NW showed up, I saw people come out of the woodwork that I had not seen in years. Of course the local church ladies were beside themselves with rapture as well as busy putting the pinch on all of the usual suspects for expenses myself included.

It was an easy pitch for the converted, the ladies just appealed to the cost of maintaining a mahatma and his menions for a few days in style. Of course we were so blessed and lucky to do so, after all we really did not deserve this, blah, blah blah.

The local community contact person welcomed everyone then introduced one of the guys with char who served as MC, he introduced one of the other honco's traveling with char, who then addressed the group, same drivel, they played a lame video and then char spoke briefly.

Mahatma ji said pretty much the same things he has always said, told a few stories and parables, only this night he just didn't seem to be all that inspired and did not carry on long. The high point of his discourse came when he announced that he had been practicing knowledge for over 60 years. Big applause, squeals of delight, knowing looks exchanged, etc.

The program ended with a few instructions on how to further pursue the getting of knowledge for those that did not have it, and off we went to gravitate into chit chat groups and vying for the attention of charanand. I had brought a guest that evening and I wanted him to meet the 'holy man' I know, I was just as sick as the rest of 'em'

I didn't quite make it all of the way out the door before being pulled over one last time by an earnest whispering church lady in search of additional funding. I opened my wallet again and deposited another substantial cash donation, sheesh, call me a sucker now if you want, but 'they just did not have enough to cover the nights expenses you know'.

I finally got away, making my way out of the Marriot hotel, shaking hands and saying goodbye to all of the oldies. I remember thinking that something was so strained and different, from charanand to the premies, the magic was gone. The vibe had definately changed for me, it felt like we were just trying to keep up appearances as if we were really on to something, yet there was a dryness that had not been there before. I guess that was the genesis of my exit right then.

Shortly thereafter I was directed to this site and I have not nor probably will not ever attend another m related function. I called my friend whom I had taken to the event and asked him to reconsider his intention regarding m, and he has.

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Date: Fri, Oct 12, 2001 at 04:32:46 (EDT)
From: magiclara
Email: None
To: Brian Smith
Subject: Re: The last time I saw Charanand?
Message:
Thanks Brian
I saw char at Nottingam, I hadn't seen him since I got knowledge from him way back when he was a magical being in saffron robes. At Nottingam I was expecting him to radiate some magic like he did then. Nothing! He was at the front with the rest of the elite who all seemed to be congratulating each other on there elitness.(I don't think that is a real word but what the hell)I was shocked to discover char was not what I had believed him to be. My illusion was shattered. You see back in the 70's I didn't like m really and thought that c would make a much better satguru and wished that he was the boss. Then I read stuff about c here and that was the end of that. Never mind tis just the foolish imaginings of youth.
magiclara
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Date: Fri, Oct 12, 2001 at 05:15:30 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: magiclara
Subject: Too funny, Clara
Message:
You said: ''You see back in the 70's I didn't like m really and thought that c would make a much better satguru and wished that he was the boss.''

I thought the same thing. I have been wondering how many exes did not like M. The remaining premies seem always to have liked Rawat and had no misgivings.

Yeah, and Char has no juju left. I guess his juju was all in my imagination just like his holeyness' juju was.

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Date: Fri, Oct 12, 2001 at 07:05:16 (EDT)
From: magiclara
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: Too funny, Clara
Message:
Hi Pat
I never liked m really. I got k as I was scared of missing something just in case, he really had the true knowledge that was claimed on big billboards all over London. When I got k from c I was completely convinced that it must be the real thing because of c being so amazing. So I decided that obviously m must have the real thing if c was involved. In fact if it hadn't been for c I would probably not have been a dormant premie for all those years after I left m and k. When I saw m again in recent years after a 20+ year gap I thought he was great, and decided that I was just foolish to have preferred c in my youth. I think perhaps m and c started off with some sincerity but I doubt if there is much left. Never mind it will be something to say in my old age. You know the sort of thing.
'I am 89 you know! We never had those things when we were your age. We used to have to walk to school. Oh yes! those were the days, we used to kiss this bloke from India's feet. You young uns don't know you are born..........'
Bye magiclara
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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 20:06:27 (EDT)
From: Francesca :C)
Email: None
To: Brian Smith
Subject: EXCELLENT POST BRIAN!
Message:
Good to the last 'drip.'

Love,

Francesca

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Date: Fri, Oct 12, 2001 at 03:38:32 (EDT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Francesca :C)
Subject: That's really funny Francesca and Thanks Brian nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 23:51:22 (EDT)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: Francesca :C)
Subject: Thanks Francesca
Message:
These personal experience stories are the best therapy there is for removing the residual cult rust. Those little drips start to oxidize you know.

They are for me anyway, I enjoy sharing them as well as reading them.
It's good to hear from you, I hope all is well with you and yours
Love Brian

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 20:31:00 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Francesca :C)
Subject: EXCELLENT POST BRIAN! Thanks. [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 19:39:07 (EDT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Brian Smith
Subject: Shouldn't ask for more, but...
Message:
Did you happened to note what he smelled like? :)

Thanks for an excellent post.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 23:28:42 (EDT)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: no detectable odor
Message:
Did you happened to note what he smelled like? :)

Thanks for an excellent post.


---

But I heard later from someone who had dinner with him that he ordered wine. Said that it helped him sleep better, purely a theraputic thing you know....... at his age and all

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Date: Fri, Oct 12, 2001 at 09:53:01 (EDT)
From: btdt
Email: None
To: Brian Smith
Subject: Re: no detectable odor
Message:
We brought him to our little community a few years back. He was laughing a lot and worried about the freezing cold snap that unexpectedly hit the area, as it was spring. We had a to pay a lot of flight expenses. He was coming out from Florida to LA to see M. The last time I saw him was in Oakland, about a year or so ago. He was funny and told us it was up to us to tell the people we came in contact with about k-if we were engineers,then tell engineers, etc that type of thing. And that his tongue had the capability to incite such anger in us that we would rain shoes upon his head. That got a big laugh.

I remember him saying once that he told M he didn't care if M had a wife in every country. He also told us to sell our bodies to get to Hans Jayanti in Rome back at the L.A. pre-'Hansi Jayanti' event. I think, and if anyone else remembers, it was in the context of our bodies are nothing compared to k and getting to see M.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 09:17:47 (EDT)
From: Mr. Dooley
Email: None
To: All
Subject: re: Lifes Great/ a reliable source..
Message:
reports that the move to password protected forum is a direct result of AGYA...something about logic and K not existing in the same realm
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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 17:24:42 (EDT)
From: suchabanana
Email: bananas@freeatlast.org/asm
To: Mr. Dooley
Subject: heads we win/tales they lose
Message:
reports that the move to password protected forum is a direct result of AGYA...something about logic and K not existing in the same realm


---

conventional wisdom: if logic and K existed in da same realm, then everybody with a functional brain would split m.

so, circle dose wagons, dere's barbarians at da gate, da potty line continues -- to insulate da O'massa bin L.A.den cult from the intelligent articulations of da infidel unbelievers and apostates [antonym: invertebrate prostates]. simple case of heads-up vs. tails between legs, slave doggies running as massa jerks leash.

As miragey said: 'Dog's chain -- dog wants to go there, he is free to go there. When he sees him there, master does like that (pulls on chain). So you can be -- that is just if you are doing meditation regularly. See, dog thinks that 'Yes, I am free. Now I can run.' He runs, but chain is there; master pulls. Yes?'' - Prem Rawat aka Maharaji

Oh, well, guess they're just gonna miss dose classic inspirational poetry contributions now. As Albert Einstein once said, 'I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy.' But perfect massa say, 'bad slave doggies, back in my doghouse.'

agya = by order of da Omassa bin L.A.den.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 11:26:26 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Mr. Dooley
Subject: IS THIS TRUE?
Message:
reports that the move to password protected forum is a direct result of AGYA...something about logic and K not existing in the same realm


---

If that's true that's incredible. Please, anyone, the details?

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 06:11:26 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: All
Subject: The 4 'axioms' of spirituality !
Message:
New document on EPO (Sant mat philosophy) :

Excerpts from : The Science of the Soul
by Maharaj Sardar Bahadur Jagat Singh
(Radha Soami Satsang Beas - Punjab, India).
Page 77-85

1 Nobody is happy in this world
2 This world is not our True Home
3 It is only in the human form that the Soul can realize God and retrace its footsteps Homeward
4 God-realization is not possible without a perfect Master
[ Axioms of Spirituality ]

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Date: Fri, Oct 12, 2001 at 04:07:15 (EDT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Don't you mean the 4 'toxins' of spirituality? nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 11:27:24 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: This one's my favorite
Message:
4. God-realization is not possible without a perfect Master

He alone can show us how to vacate the nine portals of the body and enter the tenth which leads to our Eternal Home. The Vedas, Shruties, Smrities, other holy scriptures and the Saints and Sages of all religions stress the need for a Mystic Adept for transport into subtle realms. Actually, man needs a teacher at every step from the time of his birth. He has learnt nothing without one. His first guru is his mother who teaches him how to sit, stand, walk, eat, drink and dress. Later his father, brothers and sisters take on the onerous role and he begins to prattle. When he grows a little older, his friends and playmates become his guru. Next he goes to schools and colleges where there are any number of them to teach him. Yet when it comes to learning the science of the soul-the most intricate of sciences, rarely do we search for a guru, and without one it is impossible to proceed even an inch on this path. Maulana Rum says:

Even in the streets through which,
You have passed a number of times,
You often miss the way,
If you do not have a guide.
Beware of the way,
Which you have never traversed.
Never go there alone,
Always take a guide.

This is very untrue. Most mystics have their experiences in mysticism without intercession from anybody, 'adept' or otherwise. Not only that, but the most famous mysics owe their experience to nobody but God, himself. Who did Moses revere? Abraham? Jesus? Buddha? Mohammed? These guys praised nobody but God. I find it interesting that this is often the case. I doubt there are many mystics who have found themselves in God's presense that thanked anybody but God for it. That seems to be the way it works. So this belief that you need a Perfect Master or 'Mystic Adept' to show you the way goes against the grain of what history reveals. I can only assume that it's a self-serving declaration. Seriously, what mystic has there ever been that's thanked anybody but God for what's been revealed to them? We've got some mystics on this site. Who do you thank for what you've experienced?

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 11:25:42 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: This one'
Message:
4. God-realization is not possible without a perfect Master

He alone can show us how to vacate the nine portals of the body and enter the tenth which leads to our Eternal Home. The Vedas, Shruties, Smrities, other holy scriptures and the Saints and Sages of all religions stress the need for a Mystic Adept for transport into subtle realms. Actually, man needs a teacher at every step from the time of his birth. He has learnt nothing without one. His first guru is his mother who teaches him how to sit, stand, walk, eat, drink and dress. Later his father, brothers and sisters take on the onerous role and he begins to prattle. When he grows a little older, his friends and playmates become his guru. Next he goes to schools and colleges where there are any number of them to teach him. Yet when it comes to learning the science of the soul-the most intricate of sciences, rarely do we search for a guru, and without one it is impossible to proceed even an inch on this path. Maulana Rum says:

Even in the streets through which,
You have passed a number of times,
You often miss the way,
If you do not have a guide.
Beware of the way,
Which you have never traversed.
Never go there alone,
Always take a guide.

This is very untrue. Most mystics have their experiences in mysticism without intercession from anybody, 'adept' or otherwise. Not only that, but the most famous mysics owe their experience to nobody but God, himself. Who did Moses revere? Abraham? Jesus? Buddha? Mohammed? These guys praised nobody but God. I find it interesting that this is often the case. I doubt there are many mystics who have found themselves in God's presense that thanked anybody but God for it. That seems to be the way it works. So this belief that you need a Perfect Master or 'Mystic Adept' to show you the way goes against the grain of what history reveals. I can only assume that it's a self-serving declaration. Seriously, what mystic has there ever been that's thanked anybody but God for what's been revealed to them? We've got some mystics on this site. Who do you thank for what you've experienced?

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 09:21:56 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Tough bargain
Message:
Guru Nanak says:

For one moment of lust enjoyment,
Ten million days of agony await thee.

This adds up to thirty-three thousand years of agony for one moment of sensual pleasure. Only a fool would enter into such a bad bargain.

Let me see. That's thirty-three thousand times.... Nope, I don't think I'm gonna make it.

Where do these guys come up with these numbers? Sheesh!

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 04:07:41 (EDT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: All
Subject: is this true?,,,,,,,,,,,,,, [ot]
Message:
bin laid

don't be shy now, tell us please.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 15:13:10 (EDT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: salam
Subject: LOL!!!
Message:
No change here, Salam! :)))))))) Oh, I guess it's only Americans, not Canadians ... hmmmm ... maybe I'll ask around at work - should make for an interesting change in conversation!
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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 20:41:22 (EDT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: Re: LOL!!!
Message:
don't wish it on the Proper Canucks. no sex is better, yar?;)
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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 21:23:38 (EDT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: salam
Subject: Re: LOL!!!
Message:
Hey, don't take me for an average Canucka!

No sex is better than bad sex, or even good sex with the wrong person, yar, yar! :)

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 11:57:04 (EDT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: salam
Subject: Salam, you better watch out
Message:
or Santa's not going to bring you anything. Posting stuff about Gurus with deviancy issues, and homicidal tendancies, other than Maharaji can get you into a lot of trouble.

--Scott

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 13:16:56 (EDT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: Re: Salam, you better watch out
Message:
I thought you were blocked.

Yeah the FA can stick it where it hurts, yar?

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 04:20:55 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: salam
Subject: One excuse is as good as another
Message:
No wonder Never-bin-Laden-his-life hates us. Fucking infidels. Now if he would just do something about his dyspetic halitosis and constipation induced hemarrhoids maybe he could get laid. To me he has a very sour expression like he has indigestion and constipation. He is not a well man.

Yes, of course it's true even if it was written in that breathless Times of India style - at once titillated and shocked. We also used the 89 quake as an excuse for more screwing and the seven year drought and the collapse of the dotcom industry and the Dow Jones and....

Basically us infidels do fuck more than most although a sizable minority prefer food and shopping to sex.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 06:08:40 (EDT)
From: such
Email: bananasRus@sexjihadpistol.org/asm
To: Pat:C)
Subject: re box lunches,bananas,eatin out - or gas 'em...
Message:
since 9/11: I eat 1 dinner each day + 1 box lunch. sometimes I like to eat out, too.

food shop for fresh organic produce/groceries 2-3x/week: bananas, cukes, zucchini, etc.

nothing for unlawful carnal knowledge or titelation, however. but have drilled many galvanized screws lately, doing da home improvements. am considering buying a condom-inium, too, at a remote resort far from the maddening crowd.

I recently saw an American college football game, too, but my friend only seemed interested in watching dose wide receivers and tight ends and speculating about dat close relationship between da center and da quarterback - for the record, though, there were no hunchbacks playing for Notre Dame on Saturday.

btw, ordered some color-coordinated gas masks -- just in case of an emergency - for my annual beans, lentils, and prunes potluck party. besides all da music-making, we hire a rapper dj, too -- enimem. lotsa chemtrails in da sky dat night, i kin tellya - no tanks giving necessary at dat bunker-buster of a Hallowed Wienies party. so, no sex maniacs dere, eider, or gas 'em.

you know why dat guy bin Laden is so cwazy and uptight? 'cause every night he's got 4 wives tellin' him they got a 'headache'. (and dat dumb Osammy be totally clueless -- he still cunt even finger it out!) what a pathetic loother! thpeaking of which, maybe we should all hold hands and sing kumbaya, and

vithualithe thwirled peath [+ lentilth],

ath we kith our atheth bye-bye... yeah, dat's da ticket -- singing: 'We Are da Whirled, We are da chillums...'
and like dose mithras carols say: 'with da jolly Rose Bowl game, crisis was born in Bethlehem'... and closing now with, of course, 'sleep in heavenly peas, sleep in heavenly peas'...

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 16:46:50 (EDT)
From: berni
Email: bernee@flashmail.com
To: such
Subject: Re: re box lunches,bananas,eatin out ....
Message:
I know what you mean Such,
since 9/11:
drink twice as much whiskey and guiness as previously.
Hey we might all be dead tomorrow and as Carlos Castenada ( or was it Don Juan? - frauds the lot of 'em ) said - always keep death on your shoulder.
Or maybe I'm just getting too depressed about being distressed?
berni
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Date: Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 19:50:57 (EDT)
From: Sarlo's Update
Email: gkl1@techline.com
To: All
Subject: New link to Ex-Premie.org
Message:
Sarlos Guru ratings website has added a new page with links to 'Ex' sites of various dirtbag gurus. Sarlo:

Guru Maharaji, aka Prem Pal Singh Rawat. Hugely documented, testimonies from many exes
[ Special Dirt Sites for dirtbag gurus ]

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Date: Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 21:42:10 (EDT)
From: such
Email: None
To: Sarlo's Update
Subject: Muktananda,Rajneesh,da Free John,Rudi,Chetananda
Message:
= same den/lineage of vile Rugus!

role modeled/learnt spiritual posing, manipulations/abuses, corruption, degradations...

http://members.tripod.com/toutsursahajayoga/origins.htmg
[ http://members.tripod.com/toutsursahajayoga/origins.htm ]

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Date: Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 22:03:09 (EDT)
From: such
Email: None
To: such
Subject: Muktananda:a corrupt,violent + sexual abuser, too!
Message:
http://www.cyberpass.net/truth/Frames.htm
[ http://www.cyberpass.net/truth/Frames.htm ]
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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 06:37:22 (EDT)
From: btdt
Email: None
To: such
Subject: Thanks for finding this!
Message:
Holy smokes......I can't stop reading. I would never have believed the similarities possible between two, unrelated organizations to be nearly identical.

Such, when will you put me out of misery and share your dream?

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Date: Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 20:50:00 (EDT)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: Sarlo's Update
Subject: from Da Audi Free John exes:
Message:
'In the field of religion, especially when considering the role of charismatic, authoritarian religious leaders, the validity of the ad hominem argument becomes an even more important consideration. While character examination may never undermine the logic of a spiritual leader's positions, I suspect it may well be the mostappropriate means to evaluate a guru, or any other teacher claiming divine inspiration for his or her actions. In other words, I believe that the ad hominem argument is potentially the most useful (though perhaps the most misused) means for evaluating religious or spiritual claims. Why?

In all of the world's major religions there are sub-traditions that emphasize the paramount value of the spiritual preceptor (guru, rebbe, murshid, shih fu, roshi, etc.) These traditions claim that the spiritual preceptor can greatly accelerate the development of the disciple who submits completely to the preceptor's will.6 In addition, they generally caution that the right preceptor is necessary for growth; a fraudulent or deluded preceptor is disastrous for the disciple and can literally ruin his or her spiritual life. Since the choice of preceptor is so important for the disciple, the traditions have cautioned the spiritual seeker to be highly critical when selecting the man or woman to whom he/she will entrust his/her life and have taught criteria by which true teachers are to be recognized.

Besides emphasizing the importance of common sense and intuition, the criteria usually include a critical examination of the moral quality of the preceptor's life. As Jesus is quoted as saying in a related context, 'By their fruits you shall know them.'7 What these traditions seem to understand (or perhaps never had to consider) is that the distinctions modern persons make between spheres of action--physical vs. mental, spiritual vs. material, academic vs. personal, intellectual vs. moral, etc.--are both arbitrary and inappropriate when considering spiritual teachers. As these teachers usually claim, there is no spiritual world divorced from everyday life. The preceptor, or guru, claims the entire life of the disciple as his/her field of action; there is no area of the disciple's life free from the scrutiny and correction of the guru. Taking this claim at face value, it only follows that every aspect of the guru's life is also open to the critical examination of the disciple; there is no life of the spirit divorced from everyday human interactions and mundane concerns. The intellectual work of an English professor may be separate from his sex life,8 but a guru's is not. Given the inseparability of spirit and matter, the cosmic and mundane, what more relevant way is there to evaluate a teacher than by his or her relationships with persons, possessions, and the environment? While I will do my best to avoid all questionable, unsupported allegations, I will not hesitate to discuss actions taken by Da Free John that seem to bear directly on the question of character.9
It is my belief, or bias, that spiritual liberation does not free one from all rules of conventional morality. Though it is obvious that social mores are made up, the creation of particular human societies, and may well be hypocritical, inconsistent and arbitrary,10 does it necessarily follow that the individual who is 'liberated' is free to indulge in what appear to be egocentric, hurtful, and damaging actions in the name of spiritual freedom? I personally think not, while acknowledging the subtlety and complexity of the ongoing debate.
'
[ http://www.und.nodak.edu/dept/philrel/jonestown/jones.html ]

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Date: Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 21:30:24 (EDT)
From: such
Email: None
To: suchabanana
Subject: Wow! what parallels!!!
Message:
http://www.und.nodak.edu/dept/philrel/jonestown/jones.html

da inner circle, da holier than DOW 'tudes, da infallible guru and his decadent and corrupt lifestyle, da emperor's new clothes, + da ex's conclusions...

like, dis ist totally day job view [er, deja vu]
[ http://www.und.nodak.edu/dept/philrel/jonestown/jones.html ]

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Date: Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 21:47:24 (EDT)
From: such
Email: None
To: such
Subject: Nityananda,Rudi,Gurdjieff,et encore
Message:
'Swami Rudrananda (usually simply called Rudi), an American yogi who had studied the Gurdjieff work, practiced Subud, and spent time in Ganeshpuri with Swami Muktananda and Muktananda's guru, Nityananda, still commanded Da Free John's admiration, even though the two had broken contact before Rudi's recent death. Da Free John especially admired Rudi's wild energy and lust for experience. In a sentimental mood, Da Free John once mused 'Rudi loved men and I love women. Together we could have fucked the world.''
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Date: Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 21:04:57 (EDT)
From: such
Email: None
To: suchabanana
Subject: da 'jargon of surrender and grace.'
Message:
'It quickly became apparent that honesty in our journals was not a virtue to be rewarded; any expression of doubt, confusion, or uncertainty led to long, unpleasant probing from the higher-ups and the suggestion that perhaps we were not 'mature enough' as disciples to deserve the experience of spending weekends in the master's presence. Our entries soon became formulaic and unrelentingly enthusiastic, loaded with the jargon of surrender and grace. It was also suspected that really powerful journal entries, if sustained long enough, might lead to improved standing within the community and eventually lead to greater contact with the guru, the goal of all good disciples. In this manner we were encouraged to express our love and devotion for the guru again and again, in many different ways.'
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Date: Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 19:24:26 (EDT)
From: Disculta
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Maharaji caught in blatant lie
Message:
In her post below, Abi makes the following statement:

'Rawat lied to my father when he met him at Amaroo. Rawat claimed that this was the first time he had ever heard about Jagdeo's abuse of children but Dr Pascotto told me to my face in a hotel in Brisbane days later that he and Lietner had done a report on Jagdeo and presented it to Rawat several years ago.'

I think this is a REALLY BIG DEAL, like when we learned MJ had killed a man and blamed another, had sex with, and discarded, several premie women, was alcoholic and abusive when drunk, etc.

It seems to me like a form of spiritual perjury - a blatant lie by a spiritual teacher to a devotee. I am glad Abi said she is writing it all up in chronological order and putting it somewhere on EPO,a is well as hopefully in the consciousness of current premies.

Pissed off, Disculta

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 12:39:05 (EDT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: Re: Maharaji caught in blatant lie
Message:
He did lie and he has known about Jagdeo for years, how long exactly I don't know. But I do know that while my father was out at Amaroo doing service before the Event began and shortly after his letter got through to Cathy, a man called Bobby walked up to him out of the blue and told him that he was really sorry about the abuse but wanted him to know that Maharaji had turned his back on Jagdeo the last time he saw him. Ny father, and I suppose Bobby too, made out that this was an event of huge significance and that for Indians when a Guru turned their back like that it means they are totally banned, blacklisted. The message which was being communicated to my father by Bobby was that Rawat knew about Jagdeo's abuse and that is why he had rejected Jagdeo. Bobby also said that no one knew where Jagdeo was and he stressed this by saying that even jagdeo's own sons did not know where he was.

This made me ask a lot of question, none of which really registerd with my father. Some of the questions which came up for me when I heard this if this happened then it means that Jagdeo was still around in India after Deepak apparently interviewed him and he apparently left the ashram the next day never to be seen again. It means that Deepak was lying. I asked Valerio Pascotto if I could talk to Deepak but I was refused. It also means that jagdeo was very likely still hainging about the ashram in India for some time. It means that Rawat was told about this. What did he do? He apparently turned his back. Then he lied to my father and said he had never known about this until Amaroo. On the grounds I guess that EV and Rawat have some strange communication problem. Oh sure... Anyway, it doesn't ring true at all. One of the stories told about jagdeo was that he had retired to his family village, conjuring up images of a modest Indian man, frail, perhaps wrongfully accused, seeking the shelter of his family in his dotage. He is a Brahmin and a highly educated one who is very likely from a city. But apart from that if he retired to his family village how come Bobby said that his own sons don't even know where he is.

None of the pieces fit together in this. None of it is consistent. I wouldn't be surprised that they have know for decades and that it is possibe that other victims who are still within the cult have been silenced in some way.

I asked and asked if they knew where Jagdeo was and they claimed that they did not until just after Amaroo when after a lot of pressure from me I got Valerio on the phone. (He was very careful not to put anything in writing). After more pressure from me he suddenly discovered Marcia Lietner and she suddenly told me that Jagdeo has last been seen in Indian somewhere by some Indian and when she did not know. It was all very vague. I asked her about the report she had made on Jagdeo and if I could see a copy and she said it was confidential. So confidential it might not exist anymore. But she and Valerio admitted there was an investigation into Jagdeo and that a report was made and that they were both involved. I imagine that they have protected themselves legally. But as far as I am concerned they have sold their souls.

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Date: Sat, Oct 13, 2001 at 12:54:55 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Yes! Disculta and Abi
Message:
There are a lot of premies who are on Abi's side, and who think EV has completely mishandled this whole situation. The sticking point for these premies is Maharaji - how much he knew, and how much control he has over how EV has handled the situation. Abi, your latest posts - along with those of Pam, above - have really helped clear up how involved Maharaji was all along.

Also, to Abi, I am really sorry about your father's reaction to all of this. I admire your maturity in being compassionate and accepting of him. There is just such an emotional 'disconnect' in his behavior - I guess I've seen this in other people, but never so overtly.

Love and support to you,
Katie

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 13:39:22 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Save this post
Message:
Abi,

I can't wait for your complete A to Z narrative. I agree with all your analysis and join you in your speculations.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 13:57:35 (EDT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Save this post
Message:
I'll write it all up soon as I can.
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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 14:11:59 (EDT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: A couple of questions...
Message:
Hi,

I did some research on the California Board of Psychologists website and found that prior to receiving his license, Valerio Pascotto was an assistant under a psychologist named Maxwell Angus Strachan, license #8929. It's required that a new psychologist work under a fully licensed psychologist (most states require this) prior to being fully licensed in California.

First, I'm wondering if Maxwell Angus Strachan is/was a premie--anyone know?

Second, I had a question about jurisdiction. Because Valerio presented himself as EV's representative while in Australia, did he break laws or board of professional conduct guidelines set forth by Australia, while he was at Amaroo, by discussing you with your father, Abi. I don't know the answers, but there may be a can of worms here for Valerio if he was practicing psychology in Australia. Did he ever say he was a psychologist to you or your father at Amaroo?

It is so creepy that Maharaji and EV believe they are exempt from any laws, being of course, in ''Maharaji's World.''

Just a couple of cents,
Cynthia

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 15:38:16 (EDT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: answers as such
Message:
Hi

he did say that he was a shrink. I told him he'd sold out and he didn't laugh.

He stressed that he was just a volunteer for EV. Must have been some legal advice he had.

One conversation I had with him on the phone I broke down and sobbed and said I wanted to stop having nightmares. He knew exactly what had happened to me and the effects. But I think for them I am Mind as is this forum which they hate. All they see is Mind and ex-premie and they hear and see nothing else.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 14:33:02 (EDT)
From: Barbara
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Good point, Cynthia
Message:
Don't know about Strachan, but your idea about VP practicing outside of his licensed jurisdiction is a good point.
[ Valerio Pascotto ]
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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 14:13:08 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Sorry^Above is from me.... [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 13:51:18 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: No not THIS one, that one [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 13:51:57 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: No, no that one either .. THAT one [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 11:25:00 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: SOOOOOO true, Disculta
Message:
In her post below, Abi makes the following statement:

'Rawat lied to my father when he met him at Amaroo. Rawat claimed that this was the first time he had ever heard about Jagdeo's abuse of children but Dr Pascotto told me to my face in a hotel in Brisbane days later that he and Lietner had done a report on Jagdeo and presented it to Rawat several years ago.'

I think this is a REALLY BIG DEAL, like when we learned MJ had killed a man and blamed another, had sex with, and discarded, several premie women, was alcoholic and abusive when drunk, etc.

It seems to me like a form of spiritual perjury - a blatant lie by a spiritual teacher to a devotee. I am glad Abi said she is writing it all up in chronological order and putting it somewhere on EPO,a is well as hopefully in the consciousness of current premies.

Pissed off, Disculta


---

'Rawat lied to my father when he met him at Amaroo. Rawat claimed that this was the first time he had ever heard about Jagdeo's abuse of children but Dr Pascotto told me to my face in a hotel in Brisbane days later that he and Lietner had done a report on Jagdeo and presented it to Rawat several years ago.'

Yes, indeed. This is Maharaji caught in deception of a cardinal order. This lie is one hundred per cent indefensible and I just have to wonder if Abi ever told her dad this and what his reaction was. Why is this lie so bad? Well, for one thing, the subject matter was extremely sensitive and important. In fact, it already was all about the very issue of guru trust and how that had been exploited years before. For another, the lie protects nothing and no one but Maharaji. It can't be said even in a bizarre cult apologist argument that it served some other good, some greater expediency. This lie was just to save Maharaji's own, personal ass, er, face.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 12:47:20 (EDT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: SOOOOOO true, Disculta
Message:
It also means that, if he read the report on Jagdeo, M therefore condoned such behaviour by his mahatmas.

Unless of course, the report had nothing to say about Jagdeo's sexual assaults on young children. We really need to find out just WHAT was in that report.

I wonder there's any legislation re. professional conduct that requires psychiatrists such as Pascotto and Lietner to disclose such info? (to the relevant authorities, and in confidence, of course).

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 06:51:14 (EDT)
From: btdt
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: Re: Maharaji caught in blatant lie
Message:
Unless the report was never read thereby this wouldn't necessarily be a 'lie'......maybe Pascotto and Marcia don't have as much power as they think. Why is Pascotto involved in this whole thing anyway?
It's all so deplorable. I've never found an abuser yet that atones for the abuse they inflict. It would mean facing their own life first, and that rarely ever happens. It's always the victims that are left with making sense out of the abuse, reclaiming their lives and dealing with the scars. Abusers just live a happy little existence of creating carnage.
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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 12:47:53 (EDT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: btdt
Subject: Re: Maharaji caught in blatant lie
Message:
I agree that the abuser rarely, if ever, really lets anything s/he has done stop them from being 'happy'. Sure that Jagdeo, who was a very arrogant and threatening man, thought he was doing children a favour.

But why is Pascotto involved? In his own words to me, he is called in to deal with the 'human side of things', when there is a 'human situation'. He is the cult head shrinker and manipulator who uses his professional expereince to manage human relations problems. He is a psychologist.

The only satisfying moment during that long meating with hima nd my fatehr at the Sheraton in Brisbane nefoer Amarro was when I asked him, straight away, if he admitted that jagdeo was a pedophile. His hands began to shake and he turned his back and tried to dial room service. he did not admit it of course but said something very legal like, 'I acknowledge that you have suffered'.

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Date: Fri, Oct 12, 2001 at 10:04:44 (EDT)
From: btdt
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Re: Maharaji caught in blatant lie
Message:
What an ass!
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Date: Sat, Oct 13, 2001 at 09:52:14 (EDT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: btdt
Subject: remind your dad of that [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 14:30:28 (EDT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Re: Maharaji caught in blatant lie
Message:
How obscene, Abi, that EV's chief psychologist has to resort to covering up for a paedophile in order to supposedly 'defend' his 'master'.

What kind of shrink thinks the Maha to be a 'master' anyway? His professional 'colleagues' would laugh him out of town.

Incidentally, do you know what Pascotto's qualifications are? Is he accountable to any professional ethical body? Not that I'm suggesting any of us should contact them without your express approval, but it would be interesting to know.

Always remember, there's a lot of people out here who want to support you in any way you think appropriate.

Best, and be strong,

Chris

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Date: Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 22:38:28 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: Re: Maharaji caught in blatant lie
Message:
Hi Disculta,

I'm just reeling over this one myself. I hope that Abi can do a whole lot more than just update the forum. This is preposterous action on everyone's part especially Maha the Creep. I am so disappointed with everything I find out about Maha that I want the world to know about it. Glad to see your support adn everyone else's here.

Hope you're doing well.

Deborah

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Date: Fri, Oct 12, 2001 at 10:12:17 (EDT)
From: btdt
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: complaint form
Message:
Here's the link, if it hasn't already been listed.
[ form ]
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Date: Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 19:17:47 (EDT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Scott/Jim/PC/Gregg & virii(sp?) OT
Message:
Sorry, almost completely missed your recent posts to me in threads below, the speed of this place is frantic nowadays, breathe and the thread's disappeared.

Scott,

re Herman Daly and his steady state economics, when I was active in the green movement I read a lot of his stuff, but that was almost 10 years ago, and I've just been focusing on global warming since then.
I will check out for links on the net, but I gather from your comments that the government over there is actually aware of his stuff, even if not keen on, that's a massive change from 1990. Wish these changes would happen a lot quicker.

Re coalition stuff. Just had a brilliant call from my daughter who was at the labour party conference last week, she's part of one of the think tanks affiliated to them. She's very pro the anti-globalisation movement, and was pretty much anti Blair/Labour until the recent Labour Party conference.
Blair's speech, linking the anti-terrorism coalition with genuinely dealing with poverty and inequality worldwide, and also linking it to facing up to global warming and our mistakes in the past, had a massive effect there, even on old school socialist cynics.
It also affected her deeply. She made loads of contacts, was able to share quite radical ideas with mainstream politicians (a first) and has come away quite enthused. It was the best thing I've heard in ages.
I just pray it isn't all hot air, the kick back if it is, will be disastrous.
Lets hope this is the start of something wider, but we've got to get moving bloody fast just to limit the really bad effects, let alone deal with it (re global warming).

Jim

Appreciate your comments. Will check out the global warming links and get back to you.
During the last five years there have been 3000 peer review papers put out about the human effects of global warming, and 5 denying.
All of the figures on the effects add up, and all the expected changes are happening as expected using the human influence factors in the model.
There is not a single mainstream scientist that I know of in this field that disagrees with that. There is some dispute over the rates of change, but in the last couple of years, the disputed range has narrowed drastically.
My mate who is the global warming expert for severn trent water authority, says he hasn't come across one serious dispute over it at any of the conferences he goes too, nor seen any credible papers that do either for years now.

Say, just say, that all the mainstream science is wrong, NO_ONE that I have ever seen, even the fringe people, have said we are improving the situation.
They might dispute the balance of the effects from the three sources, of sunspot activity, natural fluctuations and human activity, but none of them say there are positive effects from our lifestyle.
40% of the artic circle has melted in the last 40-50 years, the gulf stream is already being pushed off course because of that, the oceans are continuing to rise at the expected rates.
But I will get back to you once I've followed the links, and I will also post them to my mate to see what he has to say.

Pat
What a lovely thought of the sunshine out there, apart from the income you mentioned which is double what I have ever earnt!
But no, my mother is here and getting older, Britain is UNRECOGNIZABLE from the country you knew, house music isn't just an add on here, it is the culture full stop. You have no idea just how much breathing space that has created, especially down south. It's the first time I've felt able to feel a part of the culture in the whole of my life, I'm really not exaggerating. Also re my comments to scott above. I will be having some input into the political structures, and I suspect that will increase as Rache moves further into it all. Shes getting a really good rep, and is constantly brainstorming with me. Ideas of a systems angle I've known were needed for years are just starting to filter into the mainstream, I've been waiting for this for 30 years.
So don't tempt me eh! What would be really great would be to visit some time, would love to meet all you san fran exes, you all sound like a wicked bunch.

Gregg re rai, yes PLEASE, e-mail above

Re viruses, is the .eml attachment the dodgy one?
Does it affect macs too?

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 04:11:34 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: Well, thanks for nothing
Message:
I'll never forgive you for not including me in your list of people who could get into dancing to drums and bass. I am not called a white Zulu for nothing.
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Date: Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 18:51:46 (EDT)
From: Suedoula
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Staying on 'topic' Just my Opinion
Message:
Hi everyone,

How long is long enough to not be a 'newbie?' I still feel like one -- maybe I read too much and don't post enough.
Anyway, one of the things that attracted me to stay around was that even though the threads are diverse, not necessarily on topic, and sometimes controversial, I was impressed by what an intelligent and well spoken group gathers here. My vote is to let the discussion flow as it may. This is an unusual period of history and we are all affected the events of September 11th in different ways. Most of us have been drawn here because of our previous involvement with M and K -- because this has been a 'safe' place to express how that has affected us and how we have grown, it is not surprising that many of us feel the same safety when it comes to other issues such as politics. If you are not interested in a thread, it's easy to scroll away from it. This forum is so much more active than the LG one where supposedly everyone is so very content and happy. I have read the posts on that site and am amazed that the most prolific poster is Bjorn, who seems to have trouble expressing the party line in English -- not his fault, I credit him for even trying, but no one else either cares or can muster up a reply as articulate as his. Pretty scary thought.

I don't get to respond to all the posts as I would like to but just needed to say, 'Thanks, right on, fight on!'

Best to all,
Susan (who had an extra glass of white wine tonite and who's kids are happily playing in the bathtub and giving mom a little time on the computer.)

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 07:22:41 (EDT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Suedoula
Subject: Re: Staying on 'topic' Just my Opinion
Message:
You paint a picture of domestic bliss, Susan!

Sounds so much better than giving the wine to the kids, then playing with the computer in the bathtub.

Enjoy your 'newbiehood' while it lasts.

Best,

Chris

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Date: Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 22:55:38 (EDT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: Suedoula
Subject: Re: Staying on 'topic' Just my Opinion
Message:
you will stop being a newbie when you have your first fight.
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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 09:42:50 (EDT)
From: Suedoula
Email: None
To: salam
Subject: Re: Staying on 'topic' Just my Opinion
Message:
Thanks salam,

If I'd known that I woulda tried harder to piss everyone off!

;p
Susan

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 11:31:59 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Suedoula
Subject: Will you please shut up already?
Message:
There. Satisfied? :)
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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 13:22:20 (EDT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Will you please shut up already?
Message:
Suzan, you have been initiated, so fell free to use your flaming powers now.
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Date: Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 19:12:59 (EDT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Suedoula
Subject: Re: Staying on 'topic' Just my Opinion
Message:
Yes, you are a newbie until you've been through one of the forum's dark nites of the soul. Forum 8 anyone? (snicker)

Agree about the extraordinary times. We seem to be united by one thin strand here--we are all EX-Premies.

Some reasons for limiting OT discussions:

OT makes the forum too 'speedy.'
We fight and people get hurt feelings.
OT makes it diffficult to find Maha discussion.
OT could discourage participation by those seeking to discuss Maha.
I get to use those great gears and levers in the utility room.

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Date: Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 20:17:11 (EDT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: one thing I agree with
Message:
I said it when all this started - sorry if that sounds like an I told you so but I wanted to reinforce this:
Most of us have ONE thing in common. We left the cult or were somehow strongly affected by the cult. And even within that
sphere we are very different as to how long it's been, what went wrong what healing is/was needed, etc. And you are right Gerry, it is a precarious bond especially when we see how different we (the royal we) are in other areas.

I would have preferred a few warnings to Scott, and also the others that have kept on and on irregardless if their views were more popular here. (By some, not me.) I'm sure he feels singled out unfairly.
And there may very well have been warnings or some reasons I missed. I stopped reading the more vocal political types a few weeks ago.
And this does not equate to not caring about the world situation.

Attrition may be the best way to go. I'd hate to see off topic posts be completely censored.

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Date: Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 17:38:22 (EDT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Life is Great but I can't say so!
Message:
Life is great appear to be password protected. How do I apply to post or read?

John

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Date: Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 18:32:41 (EDT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Re: Life is Great but I can't say so!
Message:
I reckon you'll have to get a different computer and fake it as a premie, I bet this is in response to my 'discussion' with Bjorn.
I kept the tone really fair, but he just blew his stack today, as he appeared to do with you recently jhb.
I can't believe how small a breeze can blow them off course.

And no bjorn, I still won't reveal the contents of your e-mails either.

What a sad bunch you are.

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Date: Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 18:27:47 (EDT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Re: Life is Great but I can't say so!
Message:
Man, what a drag! I could at least get a decent laugh outta reading those posts. Funny thing is wihtout those exes (and Bjorn) who posted -- there was not much action on that site -- they will probably open it up again when they realize nobody else shows up or cares ;)

Best to all,
Susan

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Date: Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 19:15:21 (EDT)
From: Disculta
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: Was it me?
Message:
I had just put up another prolific post there about the joys of being an ex. Under my LIG name Happy Ex. I guess it was the last straw.;-)
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Date: Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 19:29:36 (EDT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: Have you still got a copy?
Message:
That sounds like a great thread title, and your prolific posts are always really good copy.
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Date: Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 19:23:36 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: Re: Was it me?
Message:
I posted the 'Bjorn Proclaimed most Wonderful Man in Norway' press release to which Bjorn posted some pathetic interview and ham responded and set Bjorn off. I blame others. Or maybe it was the return of El Niño.
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Date: Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 20:23:11 (EDT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Mickey the Pharisee
Subject: that was a funny post
Message:
If you mean the one that is also on AG Too. I really got a good laugh out of it. And really appreciated it after not reading much of any forums for quite some time. (a few weeks for me :) )

I'm not surprised they pw protected the LG forum. It follows the same principle as EV/M's website. If you don't have to read criticism you don't have to think.
I'd like to see how CD justifies it, especially in context of some of the insults I've endured by at least one (or an MPD of one) regular poster from LG.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 01:48:59 (EDT)
From: O
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Re: that was a funny post
Message:
>It follows the same principle as EV/M's website. If you don't have to read criticism you don't have to think.

If you only think and reiterate stupid things, what is thinking worth? Valuable criticism does not consist of repetitive aimless insults. An occaisonal joke no matter how bad in taste can be funny, persistent ridicule disguised as humour isn't.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 11:22:04 (EDT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: O
Subject: agree completely
Message:
And I hope, with the password, that any critiques that manage to come through will be very constructive. Best of luck to all involved.
In the past I've read some valuable posts, attempts from exes to communicate without ridiule or insults. A few even were answered in kind.
And now all at LG can just satsang away, or share your lessons or what ever it is you call it. Enjoy. I see one of them is already here, in a post below offering me some repetitive boring unvaluable criticism with attempted sarcasm and ridicule, the lowest form of humor. I can't recall ever posting to this character on LG. Or posting on LG really, for a year or so. oh well.
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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 12:32:50 (EDT)
From: Jennifer Goodanrich
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: No posts on LG for a year or so?
Message:
You lying addict. Just when honesty is required, you cringe.

Your constant backstabbing vindictivness has gotten your boney ass kicked over and over as long as you've kept serving it up gal. You just don't learn do you?

You carry hate in your heart for others like no-one else on these forums - it is disgusting. You should fucking well wake up to yourself.

You'll attempt some smarmy retort, maybe. But guarranteed you'll realise, underneath your pompous indignation, that you have NO reasonable right to continually insinuate snide little dark remarks into your posts behind people's backs, week after week, month after month.
You must be miserable carrying such a sack of stinking energy around. In fact it's clear because your inane posts elsewhere actually become remotely honest on occasion. You admit that you're fucked up, why the smug mask everywhere else?

So don't try and kid people sister, it's late, we're tired of you
and your cheap polyester slip is showing for all to see.

We're outa here and won't read or write again. So don't knock yourself out trying to pointscore. The game's over. Scott summed the situation up perfectly. A tiny bubble in a minor puddle in a small, stagnant backwater of irrellevence, is truly The State of the F7 Nation.

Go travel for a month, you'll get the picture.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 12:39:29 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jennifer Goodanrich
Subject: What are YOU going on about?
Message:
What are you so upset about? Selene get your number? What?
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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 13:22:41 (EDT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: thanks Jim and regarding LG
Message:
I really can't remember the last time I posted there. My assumption has always been that I would not be welcome at LG and I haven't seen any point in going over there just to cause agitation.
Well a truce has been called.
As you know ;) I am not fond of arguing.
Really it's not my favorite thing to do here. However, I *do* have intense feelings about cults and can't hide it, this is where I come to express it. Ages ago a therapist told me I compartmentalize my life. So what I say? This seems like a good compartment for dealing with the cult issue.
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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 13:19:03 (EDT)
From: Yes Jim!
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: She pressed a sore button. But...
Message:
thankfully we appear to have come to our senses and called it quits. It's weird what happens when we react the wrong side of logical to an unfair post.
Same sort of misunderstanding with Scott and gerry, both smart guys who should both be happy posting here.

Fuck knows what's going on with LG but it sure as hell won't be the same without our regular visitors from abroad. I think it was due to a long protracted 'discussion' between bjorn and hamzen. bjorn never seems to know when to stop declaring his innocent and fair and just and righteous position, and hamzen, well she just likes to talk, so the damn thread went on for fucking pages!

I think the war should be a topic, everyone else talks about it. Looks like the US are doing ok so far. There's a long way to go but the steady pace of bombardment and high level of intelligence gathering on the ground bodes well for the success of the operation.
I hold Colin Powell largely responsible for this sane, measured but highly focussed response. The man's a tactician of the highest order and has a calm reflective manner so important in major theatres of war. All power to them.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 13:50:16 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Yes Jim!
Subject: Hamzen's a he (how 'bout you?)
Message:
I'm still not sure what Selene could have possibly said to upset you so but whatever, eh? But who are you anyway? You're not my cousin Ben, are you? Haven't talked to him for years now. Mind you, he was never in the cult. So, well, I give up.

As for LG, Hamzen's only the latest in a long, noble line of people who've tried to have a reasonable discussion with Bjorn. Of course it's impossible. I can just imagine. But what about this 'agya' thing Mr. Dooley mentioned?

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Date: Fri, Oct 12, 2001 at 03:26:39 (EDT)
From: Naw, it wasn't AGYA
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Just CD playing power games
Message:
gawd :)
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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 00:04:09 (EDT)
From: You mean me?
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: some of the insults I've endured?
Message:
Oh you poor sweet, conscious, innocent little thing...

Your husband must either be a saint or he's on some serious medication to handle regular contact with you.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 11:15:19 (EDT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: You mean me?
Subject: hi SC WC PP VD etc :)
Message:
He's not a saint as we are not religious but he is an absolutely wonderful person and unlike some men he knows how to communicate with women and likes them.
Have a great day. Ask googoo for guidance.
Love,
Selene
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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 12:15:54 (EDT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: ps SC regarding subject line above,e tc.
Message:
Sorry about the subject line in above post, I would have edited it but am now at a different computer doing my DOS programming job :)
I'm not at all sure what started you on your hate rant with me.
It could have been my defending Abi after your cruel attack on her, or who knows what else. But what do you say we call it off?
And if remarks made here about your guru or K bother you that is not my problem, it is an ex-premie site.
You must have better things to do, for one experience that experience you so gallantly defend. I'm bored with this. it's not because I fear your attacks. It's just that they bring out a lesser part of me, one that has been slowly healing and I would prefer not to engage in any more pettiness, either on my side or by reading your posts to me.
How about the Thumper approach - if you have nothing good to say, say nothing at all.
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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 12:56:02 (EDT)
From: SC
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Ok Selene, no sweat.
Message:
Thanks for at least trying to figure out what makes me so angry (it's not you supporting A, I do as well)

Don't take any notice of Jen's post. That was to your dark, sinister mind which clearly you aren't in the company of now.

I'm just really sensitive about your regular and ongoing references to that 'horrible premie troll from LG' and your comments have carried on and on beyond any fair time line.

I try to have as much fun as I can with anyone who'll play and would imagine you would have noticed this fact BY NOW. So of course I get angry when you try to bring out the LESSER side of ME.

However, I agree with you, enough is enough, I'm sure you are a beautiful soul who goes through the regular ups and downs we all do. In that light I wish you all the best and sincerely hope that the appalling situation those terrorists have created in your country is righted at the earliest opportunity. It still appalls me, what they've done.

The US military seem to have successfully started what is a very neccessary program of eradication. All power to them.
All power to you.

I am out here (forumland) now, Life's Great won't be the same without regular visits from our friends across the water.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 13:09:16 (EDT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: SC
Subject: thanks SC
Message:
I appreciate it.
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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 13:24:01 (EDT)
From: SC
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Same here Selene :)
Message:
Bye for now (it's three fucking 25 in the morning!!!)
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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 13:26:11 (EDT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: SC
Subject: So?:)
Message:
you think you are the only one looking after selene?

Hello selene ())

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 13:38:07 (EDT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: salam
Subject: hi Salam OT
Message:
I meant to answer you before. Now I forget about what but anyway hi and thanks for 'looking after' me. Hope I didn't leave too much of a wreck behind me.
Hope you are well, I've enjoyed some of your links and posts lately.
Heard a good joke, will send it in email don't want to start it all up again with that OT subject.
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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 20:45:44 (EDT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Re: hi Salam OT
Message:
Sorry Luv. I went to sleep after that post. So, aeeing that this thread is so far down, we can do a bit of spam, yes?())
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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 03:34:41 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: You mean me?
Subject: Until LG open to all - block all premies
Message:
These two posts above are reason enough to ban all premie anonymice from F7. Okay, okay - they are doing a service by showing how twisted the cult mind is.

Let's just ban all the premies from LG: Carlos, Cosmic Traveller, DavidJ, CW, David/SC and his many alter-egos. Perhaps we could find a way to block them from posting but not reading what we're saying behind their backs. ;)

Ban CD straight out. Block him from reading and writing. He does not deserve to even read what we are saying behind his back and you know he'll be itching to know.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 11:29:22 (EDT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: they are already blocked
Message:
They don't get blocked here, historically anyway.

And lately even after some of the more cruel remarks I've read by anyone. What's your take on this? Do you think these few (or one as many) represent premie-think in general?

Anyway good morning PatC. It's a gorgeous morning here, will be beautiful for weeks to come I've finally gotten back into my outside exercise routine. Hope all is well.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 13:33:32 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Good day, Selene
Message:
You asked: ''Do you think these few (or one as many) represent premie-think in general?''

I'll take the Fifth, Selene. I don't want to be portrayed in the next CAC attack as having accused all premies of having no sense of humor and of being irational and constipated.

I notice CW misunderstood my sense of humor again. That should give you a clue.

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Date: Fri, Oct 12, 2001 at 10:23:19 (EDT)
From: CW
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: Good day, Selene
Message:
Maybe YOU cant READ me Pat?????????????????
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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 04:55:58 (EDT)
From: CW
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: Until LG open to all - block all premies
Message:
Christ Pat , you are such a fascist!! What makes you think we can access the little 'happy land' You Jackass!!!
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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 11:28:53 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: Well, Cat, what's the story?
Message:
What's going on ther, Cat? I mean, makes little difference to me personally. I was banned months ago. But what's going on? Any truth to what Mr. Dooley's saying, that EV told CD to do this? Come on, you know and if you don't already you can easily find out.
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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 18:38:47 (EDT)
From: CW
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject:
Message:
The interesting psychological phenomena amongst you guys is the way you vacilate from seeing EV as a mindless cult of Churchies to the alternative all powerful beauracracy. My own experience is that it is neither. It acts too slowly and without co-ordination. It's unlikely therefore what you propose. I've watched Chris become more Fascist as the months roll by. Who knows? My guess is that Dave hasn't renewed the subscription. Either that or the linked pathway is blocked like this. I dont care anyway. People like Silvia and Such turned into a low grade pissing contest.There was precious little of any interest happening there for me.
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Date: Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 23:01:50 (EDT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: they could be sharing satsang
Message:
or meditating. you know Cd having a picture of gooder on the screen and everyone stars at it for half an hour.;)()):)
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Date: Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 17:22:24 (EDT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Scott, I'm sorry
Message:
I did hurt you by blocking you. And there was an element of my not liking your opinions that came into play here and that was certainly wrong. Perhaps that disqualifies me, I personally don't think so, and no doubt I'll screw up again in the future. I need guys like you and Jim to help me keep my head on straight about this FA'ing business.

You're back on, btw.

(jeez I hope I freed the correct IP and haven't let one of the monkeys out...)

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Date: Fri, Oct 12, 2001 at 19:34:35 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Have you unblocked Scott yet?
Message:
Gerry, I appreciate your self-respect to inforce the ideals and conditions but I think we should have a group discussion before non-spammers like Scott get banned. To me, the whole situation was about compromise.

It takes it out of the you and Him/Her realm. CD pulled shit like that on Jim and I, there was absolutely no reason to ban us, at least without warning or a reasonable offense. I think very little of CD for pulling that shit, although I don't miss LG at all. I think Scott went to great lengths to clear his reputation in regards to the situation and hope he stays.

It seems like the Topic is back on and to you, in some part, I am grateful. I personally think you're doing a good job as FA, it must be hard job.

Fondly,

Deborah

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Date: Fri, Oct 12, 2001 at 10:21:30 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: You Must Use The Power.
Message:
Hi Gerry,

As a veteran FA, and social observer, I've come to the conclusion that there's no point in having power if you don't use it.

'Justice' and 'Fairness' don't come into the picture. They're after dinner conversation topics for the Non-combatantant wimps who've never done a three month tour of Forum Duty.

Besides, how do you know if your powers work if you never use them?

So, my advice is, block the bastards, delete posts, use the Power while you have it. The chance may never come again.

Shoot first. Ask questions later. It's a dictatorship, not a democracy. Think, 'blitzkrieg', not 'appeasment'.

The hippies had their day 35 years ago. This is the age of the surgical strike.

Bang. Zap. Kapow.

Anth the flipping out happily on the cliffs.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 07:30:15 (EDT)
From: cq
Email: planetqwerty@postmaster.co.uk
To: gerry
Subject: Re: Scott, I'm sorry
Message:
Well done Gerry, if you'd lost my confidence that we had a responsible FA for a moment, you've regained it by saying that.

BTW, to keep the OT stuff in its place, how much trouble would it be to post a link at the top of the Forum to either Sir Dave's 'War Room' or to the site that Hamzen created?

And how do I send you a contribution to the cost of this Forum?

Address please?

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Date: Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 22:43:30 (EDT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: I'm not on yet
Message:
Thanks for the apology. I'm quite impressed by your ability to self reflect (which is why I admire TR), but posting via this damn Lynx browser is a pain in the bump. My IP current IP is 24.163.107.205, but it's dynamically assigned so it'll eventually change if I leave the computer off for a day or so (I think).
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Date: Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 22:02:47 (EDT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: FA tantrum no 63
Message:
is it contagous?
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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 09:22:55 (EDT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: salam
Subject: Re: FA tantrum no 69
Message:
only if we touch tongues...
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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 13:30:46 (EDT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Re: FA tantrum no 69
Message:
check my post above, 'Is it True' for explaination of your errotic behavior.
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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 14:12:43 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: salam
Subject: Oh no! Salam spelling or joke?
Message:
check my post above, 'Is it True' for explaination of your errotic behavior.


---

Just being funny, Salam?

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Date: Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 18:48:42 (EDT)
From: Tim G
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Re: Scott, I'm sorry
Message:
Hi Gerry.
I didn't really understand the problem in any detail, but sorry's the hardest word to say. Well done and thanks for your work on our behalf.
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Date: Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 17:42:39 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave }(
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Silly
Message:
Considering that Forum 7 is a little place within cyberspace, I think it's silly to make it even smaller by blocking Scott from it. His posts are well worth reading.
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Date: Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 18:03:03 (EDT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Sir Dave }(
Subject: That's it, yer blocked !!!
Message:
Considering that Forum 7 is a little place within cyberspace, I think it's silly to make it even smaller by blocking Scott from it. His posts are well worth reading.


---

No doubt many find Scott's post very interesting. And plenty are not so interested and resent the bandwidth they take up. I hope we can find a solution to this without any more hurt feelings.

Hell, maybe attrition will take care of it. Patty's gonna kill me if I don't lighten up on the computer time a little. (She's in Seattle now, at a computer seminar, so I'm safe until tomorrow evening...)

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Date: Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 17:29:56 (EDT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Better Watch out, Gerry
Message:
You are impressing the hell out of me.... God only knows what that might lead to.
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Date: Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 17:25:02 (EDT)
From: Francesca :C)
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: We will all make mistakes
Message:
Dear Gerry,

We will all make mistakes, and we do. Being able to work with what is and move on is admirable.

Bests,

Francesca

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Date: Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 13:02:27 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Rawat Broadcast: Cause a Global Effect
Message:
A very special broadcast:

It seems incredible that only about three years ago we witnessed an historical live satellite broadcast, with Maharaji speaking to a global audience. Now what once was just a dream to many of us, that we would one day be able to turn on our TV sets and see Maharaji, has become a reality.

To celebrate the growth of satellite and cable broadcast events and the productions that make them possible, a special broadcast is taking place on Sunday October 21st.

The two-hour special entitled ‘Cause a Global Effect’, will include a video made for the 30th anniversary celebration in Nottingham, England. This video, entitled ‘Passages’, was made uniquely for that event but will be shown as part of this celebration, which will also include many surprises and special clips.

US Broadcast times: Sunday 21st October | 1:00 - 3:00 PM (Pacific Time)

An Incredible potential: In the United States unencrypted broadcasts go via the DishNetwork into more than 5.5 million homes. Globally more than 45,000 people see broadcasts weekly. Cable programming is only in its beginning stages but has an outreach to 1.5 million subscribers in New York alone. Today in Europe people can tune in five times a week, with translation available in six languages.

The potential of the broadcasts to reach people however, is way beyond the current viewing figures. In Europe the unencrypted signal goes out via the HOT BIRD satellite which transmits to more than 84 million homes (and 2 million hotel rooms) across Europe, North Africa and the Middle East - from Iceland to the Persian Gulf.

How you can make the difference: The satellite broadcasts are very effective at reaching out to a global audience, but the costs involved are high. Contributions have not yet grown to a level that can support those needs. Each Broadcast, audiocassette and video that we enjoy is made possible by contributions and sponsorship as the sale of materials pays only a part of the cost. A dependable income will give us the freedom to implement many of the projects that are currently waiting to be produced. Regular sponsorship and monthly contributions are the best source of a dependable income.

The broadcast will provide information for people wishing to find out more about sponsorship and other ways of supporting these projects.

Contribution lines: US 1-805-496-4777
online contributions: www.visionsinternational.org

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 21:25:09 (EDT)
From: Timmi
Email: timmi56@yahoo.com
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: Rawat Broadcast: Cause a Global Effect
Message:
'''two-hour special '''????

Please tell me this is a joke! Two hours of rawat in my house? I think I'm going to be ill.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 01:56:53 (EDT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Suck them dry Maharaji
Message:
When, if ever, are people who follow this cult going to see through this crap? Money, money, and even more money. Shit, I've seen bums on the street begging for money with more pride and character M and EV.
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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 01:46:50 (EDT)
From: No name
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Hey Ratwat......
Message:
If you need money for your 'global' cult expansion why don't you sell your watch collection,unless there's a possibility you are going to turn into the Hindu God with all those arms, or one of your boats or one of your other toys. Hey, maybe you could farm out Monica for 50 bucks a pop. I'm sure she would be willing to serve the master in that way. Come on use your imagination a little.
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Date: Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 15:49:27 (EDT)
From: Bob
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: always begging for $$$
Message:
I think there is hardly any release from EV where there is no needs for $$$$$ mentioned. Fortunately most efforts of propagation are doomed from the beginning, because of the cream of the pie always goes to our greedy and addicted'lord'.
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Date: Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 16:11:48 (EDT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Bob
Subject: $$$ and Maharaji.. Isn't it interestingg??g??g??
Message:
Premies and Elan Vital are constantly saying how all the money collected goes to legitimate expenses and only a small amount goes to 'administration.'

But don't you think it's strange, that unlike any charitable organization that asks for donations, and any church that is the least bit legitimate, Elan Vital never tells you how much money is collected from donations, how much is spent on various things, nor even what 'administration' means?

For example, Elan Vital says is gives no money to Maharaji and only covers his 'expenses' for events he attends at the 'invitation' of Elan Vital. (Can you just imagine the insane possibility that Elan Vital sets up an 'event' and then 'invites' Maharaji as a 'speaker' in some kind of arm's length transaction? Get real. Maharaji decides when and where he goes to 'events' and then Elan Vital does what he wants and anybody who has been a premie for more that 15 minutes knows this.)

But moreover, Elan Vital never says HOW MUCH is spent on these 'expenses,' nor do they say what constitutes 'expenses.' I would speculate that they are incredibly huge. Paying the 'rent' to a corporation controlled by Maharaji for a Gulfstream Jet, then paying Maharaji's 'expenses' to fly that plane, then hundreds of thousands of dollars for all kinds of luxuries that the 'master' just has to have, like servants, 'residences' and the rest. Sure, they don't write out a check to "Maharaji" but the effect is the same.

But see no one will ever know for sure, because Elan Vital, although constantly hitting the drumbeat of the need for donations, never discloses how much it collects, nor how the money is spent.

If all the finances around Maharaji are just so clean and legitimate, like Erika Andersen says on her website, and as Elan Vital says on its website, then why don't they disclose that information to the public, or at least to the 'members' and why do they hide behind the 'church' exemption so they avoid all legal obligations to do that?

Legitimate questions to which we will probably never get answers.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 03:59:13 (EDT)
From: Joy
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: They're Ripping off Buddhist Terminology
Message:
Great post, Joe.

When they say that it's at the 'invitation' or 'request' of Elan Vital that Maharaji shows up, they're borrowing directly from the way some of the Buddhist teachers operate (legitimately). It's quite common to see that one's Buddhist teacher is doing this or that at the 'request' of his students (another term M has ripped off from the Buddhists recently).

He's a master of plagiarism, that's for sure. Not much else, except material consumption, of course, he's mastered that extremely well.

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