Ex-Premie Forum 7 Archive
From: Nov 17, 2001 To: Nov 23, 2001 Page: 5 of: 5


WC -:- Thank you John -:- Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 20:06:29 (EST)
__ Pat:C) -:- I have deleted WC's personal attack.. -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 15:50:50 (EST)
__ __ Brian Smith -:- Leave it up -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 17:16:58 (EST)
__ __ __ Pat:C) -:- I just deleted personal details.... -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 18:06:06 (EST)
__ AJW -:- Wierd eh? -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 13:43:44 (EST)
__ __ Anais Nin -:- Weird.? -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 17:01:51 (EST)
__ Pat:C) -:- Let's delete WC's post -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 03:47:23 (EST)
__ __ Deborah -:- Hit the delete button -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 14:59:43 (EST)
__ __ Nigel -:- Suggestion... -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 12:19:45 (EST)
__ __ __ AJW -:- Hi Nic -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 13:56:44 (EST)
__ __ Jerry Manderingh -:- Re: Let's delete WC's post -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 08:53:06 (EST)
__ __ Tonette -:- Fine with me. Delete it -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 04:08:49 (EST)
__ __ __ Pat:C) -:- But I liked what you said to it -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 04:14:41 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Tonette -:- That's very kind but talk about a jerk -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 11:28:44 (EST)
__ Tonette -:- You must be expecting feedback, so here goes. -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 01:53:05 (EST)
__ Lesley -:- You have a point -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 01:49:50 (EST)
__ Sir Dave -:- Slight correction -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 01:14:34 (EST)
__ Janet -:- I see your ambivalence WC -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 00:33:08 (EST)
__ __ Tonette -:- You found your new calling -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 09:14:22 (EST)
__ __ peg -:- This is great Janet..self Help for Cult Members [nt] -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 04:36:59 (EST)
__ G -:- WeaselCat, you're acting foolish... -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 00:01:05 (EST)
__ __ G -:- speaking of obedience training -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 00:48:39 (EST)
__ __ __ Pullaver -:- EV - Scientology Links -:- Tues, Nov 20, 2001 at 00:23:01 (EST)
__ __ __ Deborah -:- Gee, G, Great post -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 14:40:57 (EST)
__ Jim -:- Boy, are you ever screwed up! -:- Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 22:36:04 (EST)
__ __ Pat:C) -:- Shit, Jim, you really fucked up! -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 03:55:24 (EST)
__ __ __ AJW -:- Nah. Fuck it Pat. -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 13:58:50 (EST)
__ __ __ don -:- Re: Shit, Jim, you really fucked up! -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 07:59:57 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Really, don? -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 14:19:52 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Tonette -:- Read it again. It really is a spam -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 09:04:19 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ don -:- answer to tonette and jim -:- Tues, Nov 20, 2001 at 07:00:57 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Deborah -:- Don, don, don -:- Tues, Nov 20, 2001 at 15:34:02 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ don -:- for jim and tonette -:- Tues, Nov 20, 2001 at 06:53:00 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ don -:- for jim and tonette -:- Tues, Nov 20, 2001 at 06:27:16 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Tonette -:- Well, okay. -:- Tues, Nov 20, 2001 at 10:24:38 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ don -:- Re: Well, okay. -:- Wed, Nov 21, 2001 at 07:03:55 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Hi Don and Tonette -:- Wed, Nov 21, 2001 at 13:52:11 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ don -:- Re: Hi Don and Tonette -:- Fri, Nov 23, 2001 at 05:05:57 (EST)
__ __ suchabanana -:- yep, skinning da proverbial cat[+dog]! -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 01:34:09 (EST)
__ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Amen, Swami Banana JI -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 04:00:51 (EST)
__ gerry -:- Dear WC or whomever -:- Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 21:39:14 (EST)
__ Asst. FA -:- Above post by Catweasel to McGregor [nt] -:- Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 20:55:27 (EST)
__ __ Catweasel -:- BULLSHIT. -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 00:40:22 (EST)
__ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Shall I display the IP#s of all your posts, CW [nt] -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 03:40:14 (EST)
__ __ __ __ CW -:- Be very careful Pat -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 05:58:14 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- Watchout Pat. -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 14:07:26 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ SC -:- He's doing the same with me Cat -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 09:11:30 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Oopsy! I made a mistake. Fire me Gerry. -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 14:51:37 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ CW -:- Ooops wrong country? -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 15:32:44 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Cultweasel, your IP#........ -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 15:55:13 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Deborah -:- Pat-Can we eliminate these posts -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 16:33:42 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- PS I'm sorry, Mr Roupell... -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 15:26:18 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ SC -:- I already said ...YES you should -:- Thurs, Nov 22, 2001 at 02:11:57 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- I'm onto your game and it stinks -:- Thurs, Nov 22, 2001 at 04:26:02 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Deborah -:- Re: Oopsy! I made a mistake. Fire me Gerry. -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 15:09:14 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Hey you two... -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 09:59:13 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Deborah -:- Amen sister [nt] -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 14:42:36 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Tonette -:- Gentlemen. Please don't -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 11:10:51 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Tonette -:- Hey you two. May I say something? -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 09:20:46 (EST)
__ __ __ jua -:- the sweetness ()) -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 01:04:57 (EST)
__ __ Deborah -:- I thought so [nt] -:- Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 21:06:12 (EST)
__ __ __ Barry -:- Hey Debster. -:- Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 21:48:59 (EST)

G -:- it is dark outside ??? -:- Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 19:32:56 (EST)
__ janet -:- Re: it is dark outside ??? -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 00:57:23 (EST)
__ __ Jim -:- Bad post, Janet -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 14:40:52 (EST)
__ __ __ Tonette -:- Aren't you being a little hard on her??? -:- Tues, Nov 20, 2001 at 10:38:53 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Deborah -:- Jim's Canadian Tonette -:- Tues, Nov 20, 2001 at 16:16:43 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- And the music? -:- Tues, Nov 20, 2001 at 20:16:35 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Deborah -:- Standing ovation -:- Tues, Nov 20, 2001 at 21:30:22 (EST)
__ Jerry Manderingh -:- Re: it is dark outside ??? -:- Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 19:49:47 (EST)
__ __ Suprised? -:- The devil is in the detail -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 06:05:12 (EST)
__ __ __ Deborah -:- FA: Can someone ban Surpised? -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 15:16:34 (EST)
__ __ __ G -:- That's essentially the same -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 10:03:01 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Deborah -:- YES G! That's essentially the same -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 15:22:17 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ G -:- they are creepy, eh? -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 18:26:18 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Deborah -:- Re: they are creepy, eh? -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 22:07:52 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ G -:- your studies -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 22:29:45 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Vicki -:- Excellent G! -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 11:02:06 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ G -:- They were probably told to fix the beam. -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 18:14:33 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ G -:- correction -:- Tues, Nov 20, 2001 at 22:12:41 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Vicki -:- error -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 11:02:04 (EST)
__ __ __ Vicki -:- Re: The devil is in the detail -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 09:00:36 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Vicki -:- More -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 09:22:01 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Vicki -:- Even More -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 09:28:18 (EST)

AJW -:- I propose we all apologise to Maharaji. -:- Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 13:26:52 (EST)
__ Tonette -:- Okay, here's his fucking apology -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 02:10:07 (EST)
__ __ AJW -:- Hey Tonette. -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 14:02:57 (EST)
__ __ __ Tonette -:- Hey what? Okay, I'll help -:- Tues, Nov 20, 2001 at 11:24:15 (EST)
__ __ __ __ AJW -:- Sounds good to me Tonette. -:- Fri, Nov 23, 2001 at 15:41:01 (EST)
__ Zelda -:- Well, I guess we DID abuse him...... [nt] -:- Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 16:24:40 (EST)
__ __ JohnT -:- I would like to DISABUSE him ... -:- Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 16:42:49 (EST)
__ Simon Satsang -:- You've understood nothing -:- Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 15:07:16 (EST)
__ Pat:C) -:- I'm sorry, Maoharaji -:- Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 14:43:23 (EST)
__ __ Brian Smith -:- Good point Pat -:- Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 16:17:09 (EST)
__ __ __ Pat:C) -:- As long as he doesn't do the Wobble Dance.... -:- Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 16:48:57 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- He's Probably Wobbling Right Now... -:- Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 17:43:26 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Tonette -:- It's all your fault Cynthia! -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 02:25:17 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Brian Smith -:- haaa,haaa har, har haw, ha, ha [nt] -:- Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 16:51:47 (EST)
__ __ Joe -:- Maoharaji -great title (nt) -:- Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 15:35:15 (EST)
__ Pullaver -:- Re: I propose we all apologise to Maharaji. -:- Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 14:18:03 (EST)
__ __ Barbara -:- Well put and eloquent, Pullaver [nt] -:- Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 15:20:38 (EST)
__ __ __ Joe -:- Bravo from me, too (nt) -:- Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 15:34:45 (EST)

How to exit the cult -:- w/o having to explain yourself.... -:- Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 09:11:31 (EST)

Vicki -:- So who's the Competitor? -:- Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 08:15:01 (EST)
__ Francesca ~) -:- Who are the brain police? -:- Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 13:55:40 (EST)
__ another reason -:- to visit New York, errr Philadelphia -:- Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 08:34:40 (EST)
__ __ New York -:- is the site of a -:- Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 19:57:56 (EST)
__ __ __ vicki -:- Re: is the site of a -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 10:55:48 (EST)
__ __ Question -:- Where does Jean Marie live? -:- Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 15:36:40 (EST)
__ __ __ Vicki -:- Re: Where does Jean Marie live? -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 11:14:08 (EST)

Pat:C) -:- Leonid meteor showers - totally OT.... -:- Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 04:31:39 (EST)
__ Brian Smith -:- Star Gazer -:- Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 16:26:12 (EST)
__ Astrodome -:- Re: Leonid meteor showers - totally OT.... -:- Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 14:39:52 (EST)
__ Richard -:- Re: Leonid meteor showers - totally OT.... -:- Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 11:03:38 (EST)
__ Disculta -:- Re: Leonid meteor showers - totally OT.... -:- Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 10:37:46 (EST)
__ AJW -:- What Channel is it on? (nt) -:- Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 06:04:02 (EST)
__ __ Pat:C) -:- Re: What Channel is it on? -:- Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 06:18:44 (EST)
__ Tonette -:- Thanks Pat, would of missed it! OT -:- Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 05:50:22 (EST)
__ __ Pat:C) -:- What a pleasure to know that just one... -:- Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 06:13:35 (EST)
__ __ __ J -:- Re: What a pleasure to know that just one... -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 00:39:14 (EST)
__ __ __ KIm -:- Re: What a pleasure to know that just one... -:- Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 08:36:45 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Tonette -:- Lot's of ex's in London -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 02:14:19 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Kim -:- Re: Lot's of ex's in London -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 11:11:01 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Peg -:- Is that London UK? -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 04:22:20 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Peg, I hope you meet the London exes soon -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 15:02:52 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Tonette -:- I don't know. Let's Ask London Ex's..Attention -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 10:55:42 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ JohnT -:- London (UK) Latvians -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 12:21:19 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Deborah -:- Re: London (UK) Latvians -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 22:13:26 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Pleased to meet you, Kim -:- Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 13:42:34 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Kim -:- Re: Pleased to meet you, Kim -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 11:17:24 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Hi, Kim. maybe one day -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 15:08:29 (EST)
__ Jethro -:- Re: Leonid meteor showers - totally OT.... -:- Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 04:37:39 (EST)
__ __ Chuck S. -:- YES, we see meteors... -:- Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 04:45:19 (EST)

Sir Dave -:- Send all group or 1-to-1 emails to -:- Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 00:13:46 (EST)
__ salam -:- I thought you -:- Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 00:28:26 (EST)
__ __ Richard -:- While you're changing addresses -:- Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 23:46:49 (EST)

RichMandrake -:- The MahaMindfucker..Is he Consciously.. -:- Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 22:13:40 (EST)
__ Deborah -:- John was being diplomatic -:- Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 22:36:57 (EST)

Salam -:- hey MariAnne -:- Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 20:02:46 (EST)

Searcher -:- The noose tightens -:- Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 19:20:59 (EST)
__ Pat:C) -:- As requested by SC - IP# 198.142.18.218 [nt] -:- Tues, Nov 20, 2001 at 05:01:24 (EST)
__ AJW -:- Not a noose. -:- Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 05:40:41 (EST)
__ Brian Smith -:- Yeah Right, Are you trying to make a point here ? -:- Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 02:23:35 (EST)
__ Marianne -:- Is that you, Bjorn? -:- Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 19:42:55 (EST)
__ __ Pat:C) -:- No, Marianne. It's Roupell. -:- Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 13:54:03 (EST)
__ __ __ SC -:- Once again flat Pat foot goes into big mouth -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 04:14:10 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- As requested by SC - IP# 198.142.18.148 [nt] -:- Tues, Nov 20, 2001 at 05:03:21 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Vicki -:- Re: Once again flat Pat foot goes into big mouth -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 10:29:24 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Francesca :o) -:- READ VICKI'S POST FOLKS -- IMPORTANT!! -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 17:04:28 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- You said a mouthful, Mr Roupell [nt] -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 04:18:51 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Deborah -:- is it just me -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 15:32:34 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Why don't we delete cultweasel posts? -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 15:59:47 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Francesca -:- JUST SAY NO -- don't respond to trolls -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 17:10:04 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Deborah -:- Re: JUST SAY NO -- don't respond to trolls -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 20:49:21 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Re: JUST SAY NO -- don't respond to trolls -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 23:33:11 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Deborah -:- Re: Why don't we delete cultweasel posts? -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 16:42:52 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ SC -:- Yea but not THAT mouthful Mr C -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 09:20:17 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- As requested by SC - IP# 198.142.179.195 [nt] -:- Tues, Nov 20, 2001 at 05:05:01 (EST)
__ __ __ yea? -:- No, Marianne. It's Roupell. [nt] -:- Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 00:59:02 (EST)
__ __ Not Bjorn -:- Kool aid anyone? -:- Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 13:15:54 (EST)
__ __ __ Marianne -:- Made myself a target, eh Roupell? -:- Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 15:24:39 (EST)


Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 20:06:29 (EST)
From: WC
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Thank you John
Message:
Dear John
I read your posting about the training with some interest. I can understand why you found it so intense and why you have chosen to analyse the methodology used.

Of course, we are all so different. There were so many people who found the training totally life transforming - they must have it wrong. I heard there is also a long waiting list of people wanting to attend future trainings - strange isn't it!

There is no doubt that for many of use this type of training takes us out of our 'comfort zone'. It can also be confronting to witness Maharaji express a range of emotions whether it is in a training environment or any other situation. Like many others, I would prefer to keep him in a 'spiritual realm'. I get really confronted when he gets frustrated or he challenges me. I like it best when he is my master, on the stage, and I am his devotee in the audience - much more relatable.

Also, I don't like it when I act like a buffoon in front of him or any of the other participants. After all - you would think after 20 odd years of practising the mediation that I would be a much more highly evolved human being - someone who others can admire and be impressed by my spiritual progress and prowess.

Like you, I really admire the intellect. We have wonderful abilities to analyse, rationalise, synthesise, theorise, conceptualise, psycho-analyse, and so on. It really helps me make order of my universe. It helps me understand so much about my existence, why I am alive, why I was born, why I will die. There is such a wonderful world out there which I know so little about. My intellectual capacity makes me feel so much more important in the whole scheme of things. I need to exercise it more.

What I don't like about the meditation is that I have to relate more on the level of feeling and thirst. It's all too simple.

Remember Maharaji's commonly used analogy - that 'the experience of Knowledge is like drinking a glass of water and quenching our thirst?' I would much prefer it that we question the whole point of having a glass of water, the size and the colour of the glass and who the hell provided the water in the first place.

Let's talk more about you John and why I would strongly support your choice to give the cult and Maharaji a break. So many of us believed that Maharaji and meditating on the 'higher power' was the answer to everything - didn't we. There was really nothing more left to do with our lives than surrender to this 'higher being'.

[Asst FA: Personal attack by cult apologist on John deleted here.]

We all believed that Knowledge was the answer to everything and who cared about unresolved personal issues. None of us felt is was necessary to 'work on' ourselves back then.

I can't help wondering whether the 'stuff' we have kept buried for so many years eventually makes its way to the surface whether we like it or not - kind of like a mid-life crisis. It's happening to a lot of people lately - probably a good thing. We have held on to very dear and precious spiritual concepts for so many years. We believed that Maharaji and the meditation were the answer to everything!

It's time for a good purge!

I agree with challenging Maharaji and the mediation - the should be more intellectual debate about the merits and authenticity of the experience - could be 'brain waves' like you say.

Why does the practice of knowledge have to rely on our feelings of trust, self-acceptance and being open to our thirst? - this is scary stuff for some of us who have never really been comfortable with feelings.

I am seriously considering leaving Maharaji and the cult. I find the premies far too simple - even the most intelligent and well-educated premies are seemingly accepting an experience which is way too simple. You are helping me come to this realisation.

John - thank you for all of your help

Regards
WC

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 15:50:50 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: WC
Subject: I have deleted WC's personal attack..
Message:
...on John. It was an ugly CAC-style dig. The rest remains as a testament to this cultweasel's mental derangement.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 17:16:58 (EST)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Leave it up
Message:
Otherwise we may get into this sheltered and censored dynamic that borders on the sort of control that insinuates fear of opposition.

Besides it shows elements of cult thought that illustrates just the kind of reasoning that keeps the cult going and reminds us of why we got out.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 18:06:06 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Brian Smith
Subject: I just deleted personal details....
Message:
....which had no relevance and were a sneaky and ugly attempt to discredit John.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 13:43:44 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: WC
Subject: Wierd eh?
Message:
The two 'official' responses to John's wonderful posts both end up making personal attacks on him.

Well, at least David Lovejoy had the bottle to use his own name. But this character...

You're right Jim, he has got the whiff of a whipped dog about him.

Anth it's sad really.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 17:01:51 (EST)
From: Anais Nin
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Weird.?
Message:
I used to wonder if any imaginable personality is capable of actual existence. In fact I am sure that one can imagine personalities that could never happen, not in the real world. I mention this because from time to time we are offered imagined people -- characters from an auteur. Premies come and talk, let slip a few personal details, and try to sound positive about m's scene.

But the weird thing is, as that nice Katie H has observed, that the premie-person's self-portrait, these personal details revealed, often proves false. It is as if the premie-person sought to paint a character happy in the path of the almighty m (not being so themselves, of course).

A kind of denial is involved. It's like the person is thinking 'Well, it may not have done the business for me, but it *could* work for *someone*'. By creating a credible happy customer, the miscreant is able to blame themselves for not getting to the shiney gold at the end of the rainbow. 'It's possible -- look at this picture. I'm just not doing it quite right yet.'

So we see premies using a succession of names, perhaps claiming to have found the Forum or EPO site for the first time just recently. Premie Ji's previous incarnation here really doesn't matter. What matters is painting a credible picture of a happy customer. And that task (of course) is beyond Premie Ji's imaginings.

Why else would a premie post here, why else would a composite fiction?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 03:47:23 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: WC
Subject: Let's delete WC's post
Message:
It stinks of CACroaches. That was my impulse when I first read it. It is basically a CACroach attack - cultish, creepy, cold, uncaring and weasel sly.

But it's not my forum and I don't want to delete stuff unilaterally. I've deleted spam (which is repetitious nonsensical posts.) I also deleted mentions of an innocent third party in the first CACroach attack against McGregor after it was suggested by two exes whose judgment I usually value.

I don't like censorship but I would like to delete this sly attack on John. May I?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 14:59:43 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Hit the delete button
Message:
And don't worry about Jim's post, as clever as it was. Jim has no lack of good posts in store for us. They'll be more.

But it was a good response, I must admit.

Hit the delete if you want. I won't miss it.

Actually, another idea I have is to put it into a document of nasty posts that could be filed by FA. It may be used for comparison ;) at a later date. Just an idea.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 12:19:45 (EST)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Suggestion...
Message:
The FA could leave it there till the end of day on the understanding that either the poster identifies itself to the FAs via email, or someone here puts forward a strong argument for leaving the post in place. I can't think of one.

Personally, I think it is as genuine as a nine-dollar bill - and a bit nasty in its presuming to be someone who knows John personally and feels free to discuss in public without revaling the first thing about itself.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 13:56:44 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Hi Nic
Message:
Hi Nic,

I agree. Kick the bastard off but leave all the replies.

Anth the Fred, shit, Gerry's left the browser details on.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 08:53:06 (EST)
From: Jerry Manderingh
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: Let's delete WC's post
Message:
No. It is important that this forum be democratic and allow opposing or debating viewpoints otherwise you would be acting no differently than the (former) apologist sites.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 04:08:49 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Fine with me. Delete it
Message:
Geez, after reading the post again I see what you mean! How embarassing to be tricked by that spam. I thought the poster might be quasi sincere when in fact he's just being mean to John. Well, fuck that, delete it if that's what the forum wants.

Fondly, Tonette

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 04:14:41 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: But I liked what you said to it
Message:
Like I said to Jim below, your good response to it deserves a context. So maybe it should be left with the personal digs at John removed.

I also agreed with you that stress related illnesses could clear up after leaving the cult. I was sick for 20 years with the cult virus/poison. It's gone. Like you, I wish John good health.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 11:28:44 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: That's very kind but talk about a jerk
Message:
How could I have not seen that post for what it was?
If you take out the personal digs to John you will have to remove 95% of the post.
I still am floundering with this forum posting. In a way, I hate this place. The communication is elementary at best unless you are a professional writer, like many here. Frustrating to say the least for the likes of me. Geez, there's not even a spell check tool.
And this forum is so dynamic that you have to practically read it everyday to keep up with what has happened. Time consuming.
However, I want to see this thru. I want M to make amends. I want him to attempt to undo the damage he has bestowed. I will wait here until either it's over or M has made restitution. He needs to address and rectify what his Knowledge trip has done to so many. Including the children of parents who were in the cult. They were and are the worst casualities. It's not like M doesn't have some resources to deal with us. Sell your watch collection for starters.
Maharaji has gone down the wrong path with many of us. Why is it so hard for him to just own up and make good his mistakes?

Love to you Pat, Tonette

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 01:53:05 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: WC
Subject: You must be expecting feedback, so here goes.
Message:
Dear Whomever,
You wrote:
you would think after 20 odd years of practising the mediation that I would be a much more highly evolved human being - someone who others can admire and be impressed by my spiritual progress and prowess.

Yep, I would expect at least that. In fact, after 20 plus years, of 'practicing' knowledge, ie- mind numbing techniques, I would of expected you to have realized it by now. After all, M realized it right away, I think at the tender age of 5. The fact is, there is nothing to realize because it's essentially hogwash. It's a touchy, good feeling, that is self induced. There is nothing spiritual about it! As for your personal growth and 'evolution,' did you ever stop to think that maybe if you are dissatisfied in this area, M and all the energy you gave to him might in fact be the reason for this?

And which is it when you write:
What I don't like about the meditation is that I have to relate more on the level of feeling and thirst. It's all too simple.

Or is it this:
I get really confronted when he gets frustrated or he challenges me. I like it best when he is my master, on the stage, and I am his devotee in the audience - much more relatable.

I think approaching Maharaji as mearly a master, on a stage, that you are supposed to listen to, a very simplistic view of supposely someone who is showing you the purpose of your life. What I think you really meant here was that you also participated in some 'trainings' and you didn't like them one bit!

Good luck to you. Keep at it and you'll figure it out eventually.

Oh, and I also wanted to add that I would not be at all surprised to learn that John's skin condition and his stress illnesses greatly improve once he is out of the cult for good.

Take care.
Tonette

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 01:49:50 (EST)
From: Lesley
Email: None
To: WC
Subject: You have a point
Message:
I think you are right when you talk about mid life crises. That is why I get so angry at the stubborn stupidity of Rawat and his instructors, who are too busy being Master with his premies to genuinely care and be helpful to themselves or those who listen to them.

First of all, for someone to enter a cult means that they are likely to be in a vulnerable state, people in good shape tend not to come back after the first exposure. People who are still in the cult are likely to still be in bad shape. Worse shape than when they entered, actually, having been too busy being premies to realise what shape they are in.

And I think you are right that buried emotions can force their way back up; often, all it will take is another slice of the abuse that caused that buried emotion in the first place, an all too common occurrence in the brave new world of participation. At a time like that you need your head screwed on, it is not a good time to be expecting the porky one to save you as you drop through the bottom of the barrel, it is not a time to be relying on a world view that is centred around Mr Rawat.

So, the next time you see it happening to someone, have some guts and talk sense to them; they just might still be stupid enough to believe that Mr Rawat knows, loves, and cares about them. Painful as it is, losing a false belief is infinitely preferable to relying on it; once you lose it you can start to believe in yourself again.

Incidentally, on the subject of dog obedience training; dog owners are told not to hit their dog with their hand, use a rolled up newspaper, they say. (For some reason they think dogs are stupid enough not to realise who is hitting them, or maybe they think it will check the owner from being abusive, what with having to find a newspaper, an' all.) I digress, the reason that is given for not using your hand is that it will set up a confusion in the dog; the hand that pets, the hand that caresses, the hand that feeds, is also the hand that brings pain, the hand that causes fear; what is that dog to feel for his master: love, gratitude, anger, hate?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 01:14:34 (EST)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: WC
Subject: Slight correction
Message:
WC wrote:

''We all believed that Knowledge was the answer to everything''

No we didn't. However it was drummed into us by none other than Maharaji himself. After a while he changed that and he became the answer to everything because knowledge clearly wasn't.

Now Maharaji is shown not to be the answer to everything. So it's back to square one again, even after thirty years.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 00:33:08 (EST)
From: Janet
Email: None
To: WC
Subject: I see your ambivalence WC
Message:
I started out thinking you were going to condescend to us all here and maintain an attitude of being above us--and you surprised me by the end. You might want to save this post for yourself and read it again a year from now. You may be agape to see how much of what you said here, that you are sure is in your own words, a year from now will be shockingly transparent to your eyes for the premie-speak that it is/was.!
It is astounding how much of our thought process has been persistently hijacked, broken, stamped into the ground and forbidden to so much as twitch.
We donT know how to say anything ourselves, anymore.
Here's an exercise I bet you will find confounding to try:
when you don't like something, say so out loud. In definite words that don't veer away from the feeling.
When something irks you, stop right there and tell yourself'no--wait! That bugs me!' and stay with it awwhile.
When you watch a video, make it a challenge to heckle and rejoin each pronouncement you hear being fed to you. not necessarily out loud, but under your breath, or on a pad in your lap, or to yourself.
when you feel yourself getting floated away with pang-y longing feelings, looking at maharaji, consciously pose the question to yourself'what if it's a con? what if he's just playing me? does anything he's done prove he cares about any person here? How have I seen him speak to each person I've ever watched him address? What if he isn't anything but an ordinary person? What is the ordinary person experiencing when they use that tone of voice to the next guy? What do I experience when I use that tone with someone?'

Try standing or sitting with a picture of Maharaji and let yourself say out loud to him the ways he has hurt you. The ways he has angered you. The things he has done that trouble you.
The things you thing he has done, is doing, that are wrong. Write them down. Keep a list where yo can see it.

Start intentionally breaking the taboos. Willfully say no to what he asks of you. Decide that you are not bound to any of it. Cry if you must, but keep saying no, and setting your own course according to what your self says is right.

Make a point of studying what others 'cults' do and don't do. Make notes for yourself what similarities cut across all of them.
Some clues to organize by:
who gets the money?
who lives rich?
who has sex that breaks the rules we all were taught?
Who settles disputes?
who decides how people get promoted?
What is the leader called?
what do they say they are?
what do they say you are?
what do you have to do to be counted as a good member?
what gets you left out, pushed out, kicked out, sealed out, sent for re education?
what is owned by the organization?
who has the money?
where does it go?
are the books open and available to anyone who asks?
what happens to anyone who publicly criticizes the leader?
How would the leader react if all they have was taken away?
How would they make a living if all they had was themselves, and no other people around them?
How does the leader treat members who have money?
How do they treat members who have no money?
How does the leader act when things don't go as expected/ordered/commanded/asked for?

Does the leader practice the same exercises, techniques, regimen, schedule, attitude, that they tell their members are vital?
What does the leader think or say about the members?
Has the leader ever been sued?

that really ought to get you nicely working again.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 09:14:22 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Janet
Subject: You found your new calling
Message:
Janet, have you ever considered a career as a de-programmer? Might be alot of business coming your way.

Great methodology. I think you might have something here.

Kind regards, Tonette

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 04:36:59 (EST)
From: peg
Email: None
To: Janet
Subject: This is great Janet..self Help for Cult Members [nt]
Message:
[nt]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 00:01:05 (EST)
From: G
Email: None
To: WC
Subject: WeaselCat, you're acting foolish...
Message:
...but not in the way you think you are.

'I don't like it when I act like a buffoon in front of him ...'

buffoon.1. A clown; a jester: a court buffoon. 2. A person given to clowning and joking. 3. A ludicrous or bumbling person; a fool.

It sounds like maybe you have been through Maoharaji's obedience training. He's got you thinking you're a buffoon because you don't grovel enough before him, wherein in reality he knows and implies that you're a fool for groveling before him at all. This is a sick dominance/submission game you're involved in. He insults you and you think you like it. Get a grip. You don't deserve to be insulting like that. Consider that Rawat often acts like a buffoon, he dresses up in silly outfits, makes stupid jokes, implies - sometimes even says - that he's God then denies he said it, says that oil comes from dinoshors, screechs then whispers in a strange way thinking he's really cool ... The list goes on and on. I can't even count the ways he's a fool.

'It can also be confronting to witness Maharaji express a range of emotions...'

No, Maoharaji angrily insulting and humiliating people, especially in public, cannot be condoned by claiming that it falls within the normal range of emotions that healthy people express. There's nothing healthy about what happens in those obedience trainings. The criticism of Maoharaji is not that he gets angry, but that he inappropriately gets angry and abusive.

'...I would strongly support your choice to give the cult and Maharaji a break.'

That's just a thinly disguised command. You think you're so tricky.

'None of us felt is was necessary to 'work on' ourselves back then.'

That's not what these obedience trainings are about, they are about Rawat working you over, and I'm not saying that in a good sense.

How can you possibly justify him telling people they should kill themselves due to blindly following the orders of an idiot like him? I'm referring to the digging a ditch over electrical wires quote.

You had better wise up before it's too late, you are in a dangerous situation.

'I find the premies far too simple - even the most intelligent and well-educated premies are seemingly accepting an experience which is way too simple.'

I suppose that you're claiming premies are 'simple' and the cult is 'simple' and that ex-premies don't like that because they are 'complicated'. I challenge you're claim of 'simplicity'. You are not using the word 'simple' in a normal way, it is cult-speak. What's so simple about the use of a scapegoat? about having to twist your mind into a pretzel to continue to listen to this guy? about accepting things you know are false (like that it's dark out when it's really light)? about accepting contradictory statements? about ignoring behavior that you know is morally reprehensible?

Blind obedience is not simple.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 00:48:39 (EST)
From: G
Email: None
To: G
Subject: speaking of obedience training
Message:
Check out CULTLEADERS BUZZLINE! A quote: 'MONTHLY DONATIONS intitle the CULT FOLLOWER to ALL THE BENEFITS of FULL MEMBERSHIP! including BRAINWASHINGS, BEATINGS and HUMILIATIONS, CULTLEADER OBEDIENCE TRAINING SESSIONS and MORE...'
and Social Control in Scientology - An Example of Word Games: The Word Control
'Any resistance to control or difference in viewpoint is handled as error and/or opposition to the group itself.' Think about how John's report was labeled as his 'viewpoint'.

and Social Control in Scientology

and www.factnet.org, the Fight Against Coercive Tactics Network.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 20, 2001 at 00:23:01 (EST)
From: Pullaver
Email: None
To: G
Subject: EV - Scientology Links
Message:
Interesting that you post this G. I have been thinking lately that m and EV are taking a leaf from scientology in terms of it's training, synchronization shite, psychological control tactics, etc. Also, m and EV have been relying heavily on cult apologists that have strong ties to scientology - such as Lonnie Kliever, Bryan Wilson and in a round about way, the ol' vampire lover hisself, J. Gordon Melton. I suspect that we are also visiting some of the same websites.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 14:40:57 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: G
Subject: Gee, G, Great post
Message:
Hi there,

You really have a way with words. language is an excellent tool for humans to express themselves.

Unfortunately, some assholes like Rawat intentionally use language as a weapon to control others and beat them into submission. Rawat is breaking down their brain's ability to use and discern language appropriately. He's destroying, their logic congnitive ability.

The cult apologists' logic is all backwards.

No wonder CW signed the post WC.

Even if the post is a joke by an ex-premie. It makes the point.

cheers,

deborah

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 22:36:04 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: WC
Subject: Boy, are you ever screwed up!
Message:
It's a little tricky understanding exactly what you're trying to say, WC, your faceitiousness is so thick and obscuring, but a very strange whipped dog vibe just permeates throughout. I get the sense that you'd rip out your brain if you thought it'd get you to that mythical state of simplicity you seem to yearn for. WC, you have most definitely suffered some serious psychological damage. M's got you in such a bizarre and untenable position even you know you can't really say what you think, it's that out there. But I guarantee you that if you had the guts to go through your post and actually spell out the implicit messages behind the sarcasm, even you'd be amazed at what M's done to you. You have to actually express it in words for the full effect.

For example, when you say:

I agree with challenging Maharaji and the mediation - the should be more intellectual debate about the merits and authenticity of the experience - could be 'brain waves' like you say.

you obviously mean just the opposite. But look at that! What you're really saying is that you don't agree that there should be ANY intellectualy inquiry into the nature of meditation and this so-called 'Master' stuff. You're saying that you don't think anyone should even begin to consider the possible scientific explanation for what happens when you squeeze your eyelids. But why can't you just say that directly? Because it smarts of blindered religious fanaticism, that's why. Even you know that.

I dare you to spell it out straight and see if even you can hit the submit button. Tell us about the simplicity you think people should have and how wonderful it is that M can frighten you into feigning it through his mindfuck workshops. Don't be such a coward that you have to resort to attacking John's skin condition when you yourself won't even give your name. Just tell us what you honestly believe. I dare you.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 03:55:24 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Shit, Jim, you really fucked up!
Message:
I posted a request to delete WC's post before I read your response. Now it has to stay just so that your post has context. Great stuff, thanks, and thank god someone else saw through this slimy cultweasel.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 13:58:50 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Nah. Fuck it Pat.
Message:
Delete the bastard anyway.

Anth where have all the flowers gone?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 07:59:57 (EST)
From: don
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: Shit, Jim, you really fucked up!
Message:
what's wrong with WC's post ?your and jim's mind are so twisted you
can't see straight no longer...
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 14:19:52 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: don
Subject: Really, don?
Message:
what's wrong with WC's post ?your and jim's mind are so twisted you
can't see straight no longer...


---

If WC's post makes sense to you, please tell me what he's saying. Better, please take the actual post and spell it all out in clear, simple english for me, no twists or turns. The guy's got an opinion, you think you know what it is. What is it? SPECIFICS, please!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 09:04:19 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: don
Subject: Read it again. It really is a spam
Message:
I think perhaps they have a better barometer for spam simply from their experience. (I really hate that word,experience)
I know Jim and Pat and other posters here have endured much on the forum and the web thru the attack sites launched against them personally. Jim was also one of the original founders of EPO. Pat as a FA, has access to ISP numbers. This would allow them to draw the logical conclusion both from reading the post and it's contents that the poster is here to insult and discredit John McGregors which is truly damning. (see the tread below originated by John)
I don't know who you are or your stance here. Have you been lurking long? Have you read some of the archives and taken a glance at EPO and Roger's House? Are you a premie or newly exited?
All I ask is for you to re-read the post and look at how convoluted and sarcastic it is. And also how MEAN! I think for anyone with even a rudimentary understanding of forums would realize that you don't post personal ugly comments about someone without their permission or knowledge.(I hate that word now too!) And that is precisely why this post smacks of an attack. The CAC web sites did worse. They posted names, addresses, photos (including a little girls'), employers and personal information. I think Pat and Jim called it correctly. I can only hope that the above thread author will correct us if we are wrong!
Don't feel too foolish if you are incorrect. I too was fooled initially.

Regards, Tonette

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 20, 2001 at 07:00:57 (EST)
From: don
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: answer to tonette and jim
Message:
okay, second try. I read wc's post again and still could not find
any particular ill will towards john in it. one must be in a warriorlike state of mind that is constantly spying out on the enemy
if one sees in this person's post a hidden cultweasel attack. I think
he or she is someone who knows the value of meditation and is about
trying to figure out how it is to WALK without being tied to M and EV.
If I'm wrong, well we all know what a WC is good for : it makes sure
that all that shyte goes down well, regards don
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 20, 2001 at 15:34:02 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: don
Subject: Don, don, don
Message:
It's laced with facitiousness and flippant disregard for honest communication. Give it another try.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 20, 2001 at 06:53:00 (EST)
From: don
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: for jim and tonette
Message:
hi tonette and jim , i read wc's post again- and again could not really detect
any partucular ill will of the writer towards john. I think one has
to be in a very warriorlike state of mind that is always spying out on the enemy that one finds in this person's post a hidden cultweasel
attack. I know there is an experience generated by meditation and wc
is just trying to figure out if he still has to spiritually or mentally has to rely on M or if he can have that without being tied
to the ev organization. if I am wrong it's wc's problem not mine, and
we all know what wcs are good for: they make sure that the shyte goes
down well, regards don
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 20, 2001 at 06:27:16 (EST)
From: don
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: for jim and tonette
Message:
hi tonette and jim , i read wc's post again- and again could not really detect
any partucular ill will of the writer towards john. I think one has
to be in a very warriorlike state of mind that is always spying out on the enemy that one finds in this person's post a hidden cultweasel
attack. I know there is an experience generated by meditation and wc
is just trying to figure out if he still has to spiritually or mentally has to rely on M or if he can have that without being tied
to the ev organization. if I am wrong it's wc's problem not mine, and
we all know what wcs are good for: they make sure that the shyte goes
down well, regards don
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 20, 2001 at 10:24:38 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: don
Subject: Well, okay.
Message:
We agree to disagree. It's allright. At least you gave it the benefit of your doubt by reading the post again.
Want to tell everyone here a little more about yourself? You don't have to of course. It would be interesting to know more about you, that's all.
I do have a warrior state of mind in fact. I come here and post occasionally because I want M to at least apologize to the bulk of us and to help the ones he's truly hurt. He's got the funds to be well able to pull that off. What's with that? His silence is damning. His integrity exposed. And I do question the 'experience' that is touted by M. Are you so sure Knowledge is all that it is made out to be? Is it unique?

Thanks for the reply. Hope to talk with you again.

Tonette

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Nov 21, 2001 at 07:03:55 (EST)
From: don
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: Re: Well, okay.
Message:
hi tonette, ask pat he knows quite a bit about me.I was a fervent
defender of prempal when I came to the forum, altho I never really
had any great sympathy for the organisation. at about the time when
the audience at the events/programs started to become more yuppie than
hippielike I didn't feel quite as convenient.After a while I found
out that it was more the people that I was interested in, and more
and more 'interesting' people drifted away and only the hardcore remained that believed that K is the only real thing and that M was
the only master which I never believed. when this whole satellite
bullshit was installed I felt more and more I did no longer belong.
I do think that K is definitely a reality to me but that it must not
necessarily linked to M, the more so when I found out thru EPO that
M is not at all a 'holy man' like yogananda, baba ji or the like,
that in fact he is a quite heavy drinker. I don't mind him being a
stoner, but I definitely dislike the alcohol habit. I felt that WC
might be in the same situation re-evaluating his connection with M
and EV. At least I gave him the benefit of the doubt.regards don
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Nov 21, 2001 at 13:52:11 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: don
Subject: Hi Don and Tonette
Message:
Tonette, Don used to really hate me and chased me around the forum using different names. Actually he still doesn't like me because I don't like rock-n-roll. ;) He seems to have become disillusioned with Rev Rawat.

Don, it's funny that the booze was the last drip for you. For me it was the fact that Rawat killed a premie and then got someone else to take the blame.

PS, Tonette, Don is using English as a second language so he does not always get all the less literal stuff like facetiousness.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Nov 23, 2001 at 05:05:57 (EST)
From: don
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: Hi Don and Tonette
Message:
wrong addressee pat, the facetiousness bit was from deborah not from
tonette and I don't mind someone being a bit facetious as WC was in
his/her post, I am tired of being a warrior and I guess WC took refuge
to such a behaviour because it was sorta more convenient 'coming out'
this way...p.s. don does not hate pat
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 01:34:09 (EST)
From: suchabanana
Email: banana@RabiesShotsR_Us.med
To: Jim
Subject: yep, skinning da proverbial cat[+dog]!
Message:
Several months ago, a Newsweek magazine cover story discussed recent extensive scientific research which demonstrated how deep meditation experiences may be simply brain chemistry or neurological in nature. David Lane's research showed how anyone can have alleged experiences from the very techs maha [and other rugus] show, without any messy and unnecessary bogus gurujism.

While I personally have had the type of inner light/aura experiences as related by Tibetan lamas -- e.g. inner light expanding outward to light up entire rooms, etc., before I had ever heard of the boy-satrugu -- such experiences were not simply induced by m's techs or drugs. They emanated from within, naturally, simply from true heartfelt sincerity -- and after long, silent prayer to my creator [the universal energy].

Moreover, when da rawratrugu modified the meditation techs back in the 1980s, even He admitted that poking the eyeballs was just stimulating optic neurons and was perhaps not good for one's eyes.

One clearly does Not need a self-proclaimed massa to experience the life energy which is already within oneself. In fact, overt dependency on externals or another human being is an obstacle to spiritual understanding and awakening - let alone enlightenment. If you have some basic natural meditation techniques -- e.g. breath mindfulness, that's all you need. da Massa himself has even admitted that he does not hear your prayers, that he does not transmit your experience. Surrendering to and relying on any external fallible human being for one's own spirituality is superstitious, distorted, problematic, erroneous, and an obviously cult-inculcated behaviour of personal weakness and co-dependency.

My learned Indian buddy informed me last night that, for years, he had not said anything negative about miragey [so as not to offend me], but that in India there are scores of alleged god-men who sucker people with the promise of spiritual ecstasy and salvation, show them some basic traditional meditation techs, and then mix these techs with supernatural claims + bhakti [devotion] concepts in order to get these people to kowtow to them and give them gifts and money -- so that these rugus become rich and maintain continued psychological and worldly power over these people. He said any alleged guru accepting riches and money from devotees is an obvious fraud, and it is mostly the ignorant and illiterate masses who still fall for those gimmicks in India. That's why these gurus prefer to rake it up in the West -- that's where the big moola is to be found. You don't see maha staying in India. He is clearly a slave of his external senses and insatiable desires -- and therefore he has not even mastered himself. He is nobody's master or saint, who has not even mastered his own banal desires and weaknesses. Rather, maha is a slave of his mind and ego.

Similarly, would any true spiritual teacher be deceitful and evil and lie about his own vehicular manslaughter, direct an assassination coverup by his top aides and the assassins' flight from the law, be hopelessly addicted to alcohol/drugs, keep a mistress while married, or orchestrate the diversion of tens of millions of dollars of non-profit donations for his own greed and materialism? NO, NO, a thousand times NO!

'Also, you know that Saints cannot be bought with money; They do not expect and They do not accept anything from Their disciples. If anyone is accepting any worldly riches from his disciple, he is not a perfect Saint - because the Masters always earn Their own livelihood. They do not accept anything from Their disciples. If anyone is accepting, he is not a true Sadhu.' -- Kabir

Sadly, anyone still remaining in the maha cult is very much brainwashed, co-dependent, and mentally/psychologically enslaved.
The longtime premies I know are very much ensnared -- many are also on anti-depressants by now, or at least evince a demeanor of desperation and pathetic helplessness -- classic co-dependents of a sick, deluded abuser -- miragey.

How much more courage it finally takes -- to face up to one's own mortality and life, as an individual, depending on oneself and one's own life force, instead of the crutch of interloper medicine men and spiritual charlatans posing as saviours.

Also, any supposed experiences around maha or his un-holy family are emotional projections, delusions, or simply emanate from within oneself. Groupies/devotees of Hitler and rock-n-roll stars have reported the same types of self-induced ecstatic experiences as premies sometimes relate about m. It is simply puppy-dog infatuation and psychosomatic self-projections.

Anybody can reveal inner light and sound etc. to others. If David Lane and I can do it successfully [and we have], so can anyone else, too. No mystery there.

Does anyone Really need servitude to a corrupt worldly massa who thinks of and refers to his own human students[devotees] as his 'dogs', his 'slaves', his 'servants'? Are we NOT Men? Or are premies Devo-luted? Slavery is dead! Long live freedom, democracy, equality!! Fuck spiritual feudalism, OMassa bin L.A.dens, medieval rugujism and greedy materialist power-grubbing spiritual demon -bloodsuckers in human form! Stop groveling on all fours, get up off the floor, stand on your own two feet, and take off those false dog-collars and chains, premies!

Remember, IF there is a God [or at least: a universal life force], then it is That very God [conscious energy] that gave you a brain, in the first place. So, Use that brain, that innate intelligence. Don't denigrate your own intelligence. When you have a doubt about miragey and his trip, it is your own brain and intelligence trying to tell you something. For example, if you stick your bare hand in the fire, it hurts. That is your nerve system trying to tell you something -- 'STOP doing this immediately, you are hurting yourself and going to damage your body if you persist!' Likewise, when your brain says, 'these videos are indoctrinating, guru's babble about his Mercedes Benz stable and/or doubling his millions of dollars is bullshit!', it is the very wisdom of your brain speaking -- Not the alleged doubt-maker.

Who trained premies to have guru concepts, master concepts, devotion/surrender slave/servant concepts? It was miragey himself! Who taught premies to distrust their own intelligence? It was miragey himself! Who taught premies dependency upon a massa? It was massa himself! These are NOT natural beliefs. These concepts did NOT come from within; repeat, they are NOT natural. These concepts did NOT come as standard operating equipment with the human vehicle. They are simply external cult-indoctrinated, spoon-fed LEARNED BEHAVIOURS -- concepts and behaviours that serve HIM, and they are clearly not for the spiritual benefit of his so-called students [aka devotees].

Rawrat IS the embodiment of the Concept-Maker. He IS the Doubt-Maker. He teaches people to doubt themselves, to distrust their own innate intelligence, and to surrender their minds to HIM, HIM, HIM -- which is a perversion of spirituality.

When people buy a car, they will check out the consumer ratings, service/repair studies, test-drive, compare with other vehicles, get a mechanic's second opinion, negotiate with the salesman, sign a limited contract, get a warranty [if it's new], talk to others who had good AND bad experiences with that type of car, look at the car's track record, research the manufacturer's reliability, etc. Unless they are really gullible, ignorant, or just plain stupid, people don't just let themselves get hypnotized by the salesman, believe anything he tells them, trust in him, surrender to him first in order to buy that car. No, they are very wary and cautious. They listen to the salesman, but they know he is just giving a pitch to sell the car. Even if they actually like the car, they bear these other elements in mind. They know the car salesman is just interested in earning his commission, no matter what he says about the car, himself, how nice they are, what a great car it is, what a swell deal he is willing to make, etc. At heart, the salesman is greedy -- because he wants their money.

Yet, premies have accepted whatever miragey tells them. He says the message remains the same -- but has it? No. Sure, what you are looking for is inside of you. So, you don't actually need him -- the techs are in books and on the internet, after all. No, his message has Not remained the same. He has changed it in the West to suit the changing times. Why? Because most people saw through his masquerade years ago. They aren't buying it anymore. Yes, when people become aspirants and go through the brainwashing process, they are buying into something -- a pipe dream. Maha says this Knowledge is free. Then, why does he only offer it with strings attached -- to Him? That is NOT free. A true Gift has NO strings attached to it. You don't give someone a Xmas present and then tell that person from now on you expect them to show gratitude to you, and also make them promise to stay in touch, make them promise to never show the gift to others, and that they should repay you with servitude for the rest of your life [including monetary donations]. If someone did that, you would say, 'No thanks, or forget it! That's insane!!' Yet, that is exactly what maha and his Rawrat clan have always done to their students.

A true gift does NOT come with strings attached.

Who gave us this breath? Was it miragey? NO. Who owes him anything then? He and other Radhasoami meditation instructors are simply telling people: 'ok, focus your mind inside and follow the flow of your breath. Stick your thumbs in your ears and listen to the sounds. Here, close your eyes, focus your vision inside on the area between your eyebrows, while holding your index finger on that spot, and your thumb and middle finger on the corners of your eyes. Ok, Stick your tongue back and rest it on the roof of your mouth.' Is that cause to bow down and worship him? NO.

When he speaks, he is generally regurgitating or paraphrasing Scriptures, better spoken teachers and more knowledgeble sages, or relating meditation and life to the History, Discovery, and Learning channel television programs he just watched in his $1000/night Presidential suite at a luxury hotel paid for by his students. Is that any reason to take him as a massa and surrender one's mind and intelligence to him, and one's evenings and weekends to watching his videos religiously? NO.

Miragey is like the mischievous kid who can get the class dunce to do anything. 'Hey, dufus.' 'You mean Me?' 'Yeah, you, doggie brain.' 'Ok.' 'Wanna learn something really cool?' 'OK.' 'Well, give me your lunch money first.' 'Ok, here it is.' 'Now, look up, look down, look at my thumb. Gee, you're dumb. Hahahaha!' And that naughty smart-ass kid will keep playing dirty tricks on that dunce -- until the poor kid finally wises up, or goes away.

Yep, like any ritual manipulator and trickster, maha capriciously keeps changing the rules of the game, keeping the premies guessing, never knowing what's really going on, while he's blaming others for his screwups, blaming his dunce students -- never taking the blame himself. When Harry Truman was the US President, he had a sign on his desk that said, 'The buck stops here.' In maha's world, the proverbial buck never stops with him. And, literally, the real Bucks never stop with him, either! How many Tens of Millions of dollars has miragey milked from his sucker students to feed his own greed and appetites. Very very many, indeed. For the Maha is insatiable -- his material lusts can NOT be satisfied. For you see, HE himself is the slave-dog chained to his own desires. A massa, no. A dog of his own venal desires, yes.

Yes, you DAWG, miragey! haha We're hep to your naughty tricks! Bad doggy!! Now, your own former puppies are rubbing bad Dawg's face in his own caca lardu doodoo. Will bad doggie learn? Probably not. For they say, you can't teach an old dog new tricks. Yes, bad doggie, We already know your tricks by now. Where's our veterinarian? Oh, vet has already given rabid dawg and his infected pups a strong medicine. It is called ex-premie.org . Now, very soon rabid dog will not bother anyone anymore. Pups can be helped, if not their massa Cerberus. So, OMassa bin L.A.den, enjoy your pathetic dog day afternoons. YOU are the dawg. And WE are our own masters now. Bad doggie! Kneel! Down, stay!!! HO HO HO! Merry Mithras!

Peace and lentils,

da lil swami

PS My Apologies to the canine species. NO insult intended to the honorable and good dogs of this creation.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 04:00:51 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: suchabanana
Subject: Amen, Swami Banana JI
Message:

[ But doggies give good darshan. ]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 21:39:14 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: WC
Subject: Dear WC or whomever
Message:
I think it is brain waves, if you are talking about meditation. Like I've said several times before, meditation is/was a bust for me. However, I use a brainwave generator program I downloaded for free and customized which I can use for two hours in a relaxed, quiet atmosphere. The results are similiar to other peoples descriptions and as I 'entrain' my brain to experience these states, it becomes easier to do so. I find value in this otherwise I wouldn't do it, so I imagine others find value in the Knowledge techs also. To each his own, only I'm an independent and I don't need to be reminded to do my thing to cultivate peacefulness. Cheers.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 20:55:27 (EST)
From: Asst. FA
Email: None
To: WC
Subject: Above post by Catweasel to McGregor [nt]
Message:
[nt]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 00:40:22 (EST)
From: Catweasel
Email: None
To: Asst. FA
Subject: BULLSHIT.
Message:
[nt]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 03:40:14 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Catweasel
Subject: Shall I display the IP#s of all your posts, CW [nt]
Message:
[nt]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 05:58:14 (EST)
From: CW
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Be very careful Pat
Message:
It is not mine Mr Pat.What are you playing at?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 14:07:26 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: Watchout Pat.
Message:
The imaginary childrens literary character might sue us.

Do you know the last time he got a hard on was when Queen Elizabeth last visited Oz in 84?

Anth, I think I'd better move town, the Cat's onto me.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 09:11:30 (EST)
From: SC
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: He's doing the same with me Cat
Message:
by claiming every other frigging post is mine. I haven't been near the place for a week (and won't be for another - during mixdown of my vunderbar muzak).

He misses playing mind games with us that's all.

We should be flattered, I guess.

Let Pat have his day in the sun CW, it's the first taste of REAL (ahem) POWER the poor lad's ever had!

He'll be thrown out soon enough for abuse of FA priviliges.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 14:51:37 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: SC
Subject: Oopsy! I made a mistake. Fire me Gerry.
Message:
Usually I detect CACroaches and cultweasels with my special exterminator's varmint detector and then maybe I'll trace the IP# to confirm my hunch. So maybe I got one digit out of 16 wrong. Sorry I just seem to get dyslexic when I read cultweasel posts.

I guess I also suffer from Occam's razor syndrome. It seems inordinately strange that four out of six cultweasels who post here all originate from south-eastern Australia so when ANOTHER Aussie cacweasel shows up I jump to conclusions. It seems like south-east Oz is simply crawling with anonymous cultweasels. Too strange.

The other thing is that these weasels all sound alike so I should be forgiven for jumping to conclusions. Also I am not an IT pro and have not yet figured out why certain IP#s can suddenly lead to a dark cellar in Byron Shire where all the black cats look the same to me.

Come off it, cultweasels. Plenty of people have more than one computer and more than one ISP and more than one proxy server.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 15:32:44 (EST)
From: CW
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Ooops wrong country?
Message:
I do not reside in Byron. What's more I have NEVER inhaled. Now Pat get out your battered copy of the World Atlas out. There is Queensland. That is in Oz. See Christchurch? That is in ANOTHER country!!!Amazing?? I hope that helps Pat . I do like to be a good Forum resident and please her majesty.
PS Why do you sit upon that stool madam? Ohhh you're not sitting , you're ....ing!!!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 15:55:13 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: Cultweasel, your IP#........
Message:
.....traces to New Zealand. I agree. But you have constantly said that you reside in Australia - Melbourne if I recall not Byron Shire. But, as I said, all you black cats look the same in the dark. So, what exactly is it that you are hiding from?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 16:33:42 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Pat-Can we eliminate these posts
Message:
They are totally repulsive. We don't need (as if it would ever happen) their approval for thinking. If you want to alert us to CW/WC or roupell, than do it. FUCK THEM. They have zero credibility. Zero.

How many times do we need to go over that fact?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 15:26:18 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: PS I'm sorry, Mr Roupell...
Message:
.....but you're a liar. I may have gotten one digit wrong with WC's post BUT in the thread below started by ''Searcher'' you denied posting it when confronted. You lied. Searcher and you have the exact same IP#. Should I post them for everyone to see?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 22, 2001 at 02:11:57 (EST)
From: SC
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: I already said ...YES you should
Message:
Then perhaps you'd eealise that accusing people constantly of being liars is dirty low behaviour because we are not the same person you goof. Why would I pretend to be someone else when I can be whoever I like - INCLUDING my real self.

Think about it....

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 22, 2001 at 04:26:02 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: SC
Subject: I'm onto your game and it stinks
Message:
This medium does not need game players. It is an egalitarian medium that requires a lot of patience and simplicity to gain credibilty. It's a democratic medium not a feudal medium like massa and whatever you are.

You will fail on the internet because, like your massa, you have relied too long on charm and too little on honesty and humility. You can't understand this medium because of your warped and twisted sense of self and society caused by some weird superiority complex.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 15:09:14 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: Oopsy! I made a mistake. Fire me Gerry.
Message:
Not to mention that CW said all those points in the thread below to John. Maybe someone who knows their posts well is having fun. The logic is bkwd and the signiture is backwards. CW=WC

But you're doing a good job. Perhaps you can conver your ass and say it 'appears' or something of the sort. Amazing how we apologize for insignificant errors and CACweasels lie cowardly and commit crimes punishable by law. That amazes me, really.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 09:59:13 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: SC
Subject: Hey you two...
Message:
SC, you said:

Let Pat have his day in the sun CW, it's the first taste of REAL (ahem) POWER the poor lad's ever had!

He'll be thrown out soon enough for abuse of FA priviliges.

You guys have become the most boring reads on this forum. It's not even an annoyance anymore. Both of you are a big yawn, uninteresting, you have nothing to say but you say it anyway behaving as if you own this place.

Very dull, indeed.

Okay, I'm ducking, go ahead, write some more mean and nasty things to me or anyone else...dull, boring, mean and nasy, just like your Maoharaji.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 14:42:36 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Amen sister [nt]
Message:
[nt]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 11:10:51 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Gentlemen. Please don't
Message:
Please don't write anything mean and nasty to Cynthia. This is not a sarcastic comment. We are all human beings here trying to get a point across.
Don't be mean that's all I'm asking.
I secretly hold out the hope that all is not lost with extracting you from your cult.
And a question, why exactly do you post here? I think you are very fascinated in finding out what is really happening with the mass exodus. You are participating. Engaged. Interested. With the ex-premie world. Why is that?

Just be tolerable, that's all I ask.

Regards, Tonette

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 09:20:46 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: SC
Subject: Hey you two. May I say something?
Message:
Please don't dish Pat like that! Don't insult him. It's alot of work and effort to run a forum.
I appreciate somewhat your contributions here but hey, if you don't like this forum or how it's run then go start your own!

Regards, Tonette

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 01:04:57 (EST)
From: jua
Email: None
To: Catweasel
Subject: the sweetness ())
Message:
of the loving premies at work. juajuajua ())
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 21:06:12 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Asst. FA
Subject: I thought so [nt]
Message:
[nt]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 21:48:59 (EST)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: Hey Debster.
Message:
Still haven't seen your face. Why don't you send me a pic?
Take care,

Bar.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 19:32:56 (EST)
From: G
Email: None
To: All
Subject: it is dark outside ???
Message:
John wrote 'M said: 'If the team decides it's dark outside, and you look out and see that it's light, IT IS DARK OUTSIDE!'

Maoharaji has already pulled this shit on premies for many years in the form of the idea that it is dark outside the cult. This quote is very close to saying 'If I or one of my puppets (the team = Maoharaji/Elan Vital/Divine Light Mission) says it is dark outside the cult , and you look out of the cult and see that it's light outside the cult, IT IS DARK OUTSIDE THE CULT!

Maoharaji many times yelled about how dark 'the world' is, 'the world' being cult-speak for 'everything outside the cult', and 'dark' meaning 'only evil'. It's very simplistic, absolutist thinking. Well, many times I looked out of the cult and saw 'light', but the premie personality that had replaced me ignored what I saw, because of the thought 'the world is (only) dark'. This really messed up my life, my relations with other people, and I don't think I'm quite over it yet. This 'dark outside the cult' idea is needed to keep people in cults because otherwise they would see that their needs (for love, affection, etc.) would be better met by leaving the cult. Imagine a cafeteria that served lousy food that had nearby competition that served great food. If the cafeteria could convince its 'clients' that the competition's food was poisonous, then they could stay in business. The more they could keep their 'clients' away from the competition the better for the cafeteria. Thus, for ezample, in the ashram (and elsewhere) there was no sex, TV, radio, books, nice clothes (except for honchos), beds (except for honchos), entertainment, ordinary discussion (the no 'chit-char' rule), exercise (hardly any), other practices or beliefs, music (except devotional to Maoharaji), dancing (except devotional wobbling), card playing (this is starting to sound like the Taliban, eh?), pets (think of the Taliban's edict of no caged birds), long hair for men (whereas under the Taliban men had to have long beards), or personal possessions (even the worn out clothes you wore were not considered yours).

Yes, it was bad, very bad. It was and is very dark inside the cult.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 00:57:23 (EST)
From: janet
Email: None
To: G
Subject: Re: it is dark outside ???
Message:
yesterday when I read John's post, I disdained to go down into that pit of comparisons to other times when humans have acceptad that kind of edict. But tonight I feel like playing around with it.

So-'if the team says it's dark outside, and you look out the window and you see it's light, IT'S DARK OUTSIDE!'

ie,
'If the team says the world is flat...
'If the team says the sun revolves around the earth...'
'If the team says you can't fly..'
'If the team says those guys are the enemy...'
'If the team says we are the master race...'
'If the team says you're a Sinner...'
'If the team says 'Kill'...'
'If the teams says 'You're unpatriotic!'...
'If the team says 'You're a Witch!'...

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 14:40:52 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Bad post, Janet
Message:
yesterday when I read John's post, I disdained to go down into that pit of comparisons to other times when humans have acceptad that kind of edict. But tonight I feel like playing around with it.

So-'if the team says it's dark outside, and you look out the window and you see it's light, IT'S DARK OUTSIDE!'

ie,
'If the team says the world is flat...
'If the team says the sun revolves around the earth...'
'If the team says you can't fly..'
'If the team says those guys are the enemy...'
'If the team says we are the master race...'
'If the team says you're a Sinner...'
'If the team says 'Kill'...'
'If the teams says 'You're unpatriotic!'...
'If the team says 'You're a Witch!'...


---

Once again, you're shooting all over the place and hitting several unworthy targets. Sometimes those guys really are the enemy. Sometimes you have to kill them. And sometimes, Janet, even you can be unpatriotic.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 20, 2001 at 10:38:53 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Aren't you being a little hard on her???
Message:
Yes, the spam was unforgivable. It was deplorable. And the personal references were unforgivable. Kinda like what happened to you and others thru the CAC sites.
But isn't your reply to Janet a little on the rough side? I don't like what she said either about America's involvement in Afghanistan.
You know that Janet can be wonderful at times and at other times out in la la land. Try not and be too hard on her that's all.

Okay, I got up the nerve to post to you and now I'm going to run and hide. It's Thanksgiving and I'm leaving. Going to Chincoteague, Va, land of Misty and the East Coast migratory flyway. By Sunday this tread will be well archived.

Take care Jim and I hope you have an exceptional holiday.

Tonette

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 20, 2001 at 16:16:43 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: Jim's Canadian Tonette
Message:
We already had Thanksgiving here in Canada.

And Jim's not someone who want to run and hide from, really. As a matter of fact, get on his invitation list for parties. Twas a great party last saturday night, standing room only for the longest time.

Cheers,

deborah

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 20, 2001 at 20:16:35 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: And the music?
Message:
Thanks, Deb, but if you're gonna talk about it .... wasn't the music great? God, that was fun! Glad you could make it.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 20, 2001 at 21:30:22 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Standing ovation
Message:
For anyone reading this post, It was a standing ovation. And again, thanks for the invite Jim. That was a classic party.

Encore encore

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 19:49:47 (EST)
From: Jerry Manderingh
Email: None
To: G
Subject: Re: it is dark outside ???
Message:
Oddly enough my mother used to say the same thing to us kids. 'If I say it's dark outside even if it's light - it's dark outside'. This was instilled in us so that under no circumstances - i.e., in the company of their friends, would we would contradict them. As a teenager I realized what poor parenting this was - the mixed messages and the green light for duplicity. I think this is why I developed a penchant for being a pathological liar and fraud.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 06:05:12 (EST)
From: Suprised?
Email: None
To: Jerry Manderingh
Subject: The devil is in the detail
Message:
This is so funny!
John's training post is a pyschological road map.
The quote you are so excited about is incomplete.
M actaully said 'if the team says it's dark outside even if it's light - I WILL ACCEPT THAT it's dark outside'.
Contrary to your's and John's opinion, M is extrapolating on the value of a team.
That whilst you may be able to fool some people all of the time and all people some of the time, you won't be able to fool all of the people all of the time.
You are such fools.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 15:16:34 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Suprised?
Subject: FA: Can someone ban Surpised?
Message:
It's another weasel troublemaker in training. Idiot Wants to get his thousand dollars worth, I guess ;)
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 10:03:01 (EST)
From: G
Email: None
To: Suprised?
Subject: That's essentially the same
Message:
You wrote: 'M actaully said 'if the team says it's dark outside even if it's light - I WILL ACCEPT THAT it's dark outside'.
Contrary to your's and John's opinion, M is extrapolating on the value of a team.'

That is essentially the same as what John quoted, yet it's actually even more insidious, for he's disguising a command to obey the group as something he would do. Bullshit, Rawat himself will not accept that it's dark outside, for he is the one doing the conning. When translating to plain English 'I WILL' in this context means 'YOU WILL' in a imperative sense. It's a command to believe the group (really him via Elan Vital) no matter what, to engage in group-think. But he's trying to implant that into your head in a way that makes it seem that it was you that came up with that idea to obey. Yet another sign of mind control.

'M is extrapolating on the value of a team.'
You are trying to condone group-think with this slick sentence. The real value of teams has nothing at all to do with group-think, so no, he's not extrapolating. If a team decision is wrong it is wrong. Period. Sometimes two heads are better than one, but only when there are two heads actually being used. With group-think, heads are not being used, the group (not team) members are being gullible, stupid, not using their heads. Real teamwork is democratic, the team members are allowed to give their input. This does not happen in Elan Vital, there are not real teams in Elan Vital, not in a human sense. A clue to that is the use of the word 'synchronization'. A pwikie is supposed to be synchronized, meaning obedient. Their opinion/idea/thought/objection, basically any input from them doesn't count in Maoharaji's CULTure. In his cult, the word team is used in the sense similar to 'Two or more draft animals used to pull a vehicle or farm implement.' In human teams, people are supposed to work TOGETHER, i.e. give their input. If the team is wrong and a team member points it out, they should be listened to and applauded for their courage, not humiliated and used as a scapegoat. The underlying message behind these obedience trainings is Maoharaji saying 'I'm right even if I'm wrong, you know nothing, if you disobey me, you are wrong, even if you're right.' What a stupid jerk.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 15:22:17 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: G
Subject: YES G! That's essentially the same
Message:
Do you ever have a good handle on the spin shit. Keep up the great posts on dissecting these cult-training mind-fucks.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 18:26:18 (EST)
From: G
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: they are creepy, eh?
Message:
Thanks for the compliments. I think it would be usefull to have a thread here and some material at www.ex-premie.org on the various mind-fuck tactics used, including examples. Those links look like they provide some good analysis. People need to know what they are dealing with, they need to know what is going on when assaulted by this shit.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 22:07:52 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: G
Subject: Re: they are creepy, eh?
Message:
Hi G,

I was inspired to look at a book on Semantics in the Linguistic Dept. Reading Room as a result of John's post.

Semantics comes intuitively to me, but now I feel I should get a deeper and more articulate understanding of the matter. I'll probably just get to it in a couple of weeks as it's near the end of the semester and I'm far behind. Blame F-VII and all the good reads.

I'll write a post about later on. It's an interesting topic. The preconditioned concept of Maha as perfect master and all the revisions that go with it are rendering these poor spiritual fools senseless. I'm sure they'd detect the BS if it wasn't Maha speaking.
It makes me so mad that he literally fucks with their minds. Cult indoctrination is no accident. Is it?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 22:29:45 (EST)
From: G
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: your studies
Message:
please don't neglet them.

There are those in the cult that know it's bullshit and intentionally indoctrinate and abuse, others have their minds so fucked with they don't really know what they are doing, at least not consciously, it's almost like being in a stupor.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 11:02:06 (EST)
From: Vicki
Email: None
To: G
Subject: Excellent G!
Message:
Very astute!

I don't remember who on F7 wrote about staying up all night to help fix the Miami residence, only to be yelled at by M the next day:
'That beam was not going to break. Don't get in my way again.' (paraphrased from my dwindling memory?

Looks like the more things change, the more they stay the same!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 18:14:33 (EST)
From: G
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: They were probably told to fix the beam.
Message:
Very astute!

I don't remember who on F7 wrote about staying up all night to help fix the Miami residence, only to be yelled at by M the next day:
'That beam was not going to break. Don't get in my way again.' (paraphrased from my dwindling memory?

Looks like the more things change, the more they stay the same!


---

I take it a beam needed repair. According to Maorharaji's obedience training, they are just supposed to fix the beam whether it needed it or not, they are just supposed to obey (you know, dig the ditch). Nobody can succeed in try to please the massa, only fail, because he's so discontent and abusive. My guess is he said that just to fuck with their head.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 20, 2001 at 22:12:41 (EST)
From: G
Email: None
To: G
Subject: correction
Message:
I read the post, he wasn't told to fix the beam, but he knew it needed fixing due to his professional experience. It sounds like Maoharaji was just throwing an abusive temper tantrum.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 11:02:04 (EST)
From: Vicki
Email: None
To: G
Subject: error
Message:
Very astute!

I don't remember who on F7 wrote about staying up all night to help fix the Miami residence, only to be yelled at by M the next day:
'That beam was not going to break. Don't get in my way again.' (paraphrased from my dwindling memory)

Looks like the more things change, the more they stay the same!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 09:00:36 (EST)
From: Vicki
Email: None
To: Suprised?
Subject: Re: The devil is in the detail
Message:
What is so funny about accepting a directive that is not true and SURRENDERING one's own intelligence for the ignorance of group think? That is elementary mob psychology. Better get out your Psych 101 book, because I'm sure Valerio did.

In every introductory program introducing the 'possibility' of knowledge, it is billed as an individual experience. Infact, Maharaji has said many many many times that knowledge is an individual experience, not even he can experience knowledge for us. Remember the example if a person is thristy, they must drink the water? If a person is hungry, they must eat the food?

The danger in subjecting one's self to these deluded, convoluted trainings in which this type of abdication of individual intelligence is required, is that false dichotamies presented as truth are accepted.

Haven't you ever had the hair on your neck stand up, send a chill down your back and you got yourself out of a dangerous situation just in the nick of time? Have you never been driving and had a 'feeling' that a car in the next lane was about to pull in front of you? These are necessary survival skills that are part of the human species. Maharaji must circumvent these basic skills in order for his brand of devotion to work.

Don't worry though. With the new PR firm in place, all these trainings will eventually be replaced with another one. And all of a sudden what was 'in' last year will soon be out in the coming new year. Look at how many times he's changed the rules of the game.

You accept this as acceptable because he very cleverly got us all to believe a master can change the rules of the 'game' whenever he wants. And he's taking us across the choppy waters of maya.

Well, you better use all the wits the creator gave you to get across the maya of the world of knowledge.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 09:22:01 (EST)
From: Vicki
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: More
Message:
Beauty of team learning LO2485
Jean-Marie Bonthous (jmb@Leonardo.net)
Sun, 20 Aug 1995 23:13:00 -0700

Messages sorted by: [ date ][ thread ][ subject ][ author ]
Next message: Doug Seeley: 'High Play LO2486'
Previous message: Jean-Marie Bonthous: 'Team building videos LO2484'
Next in thread: Jesse W. White: 'Re: Beauty of team learning LO2531'
Reply: Jesse W. White: 'Re: Beauty of team learning LO2531'
Reply to [ author only ][ Learning-Org list ]

Can someone recommend evocative material (stories, anecdotes,
metaphors,,,) that sings the beauty of teamwork?
I will post summary

Thanks

--
Jean-MArie Bonthous
jmb@leonardo.net
[ Bonthous ]

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 09:28:18 (EST)
From: Vicki
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: Even More
Message:
Messages sorted by: [ date ][ thread ][ subject ][ author ]
Next message: Jean-Marie Bonthous: 'Growing Strategists LO472'
Previous message: Jean-Marie Bonthous: 'Learning as Strategy (SRI rpt) LO470'
Reply to [ author only ][ Learning-Org list ]

We are a management consulting firm operating from New York, LA and Paris.
We work with large scale organizations commited to a path of learning. We
help these organizations bring learning to the strategizing/planning
process and help them grow strategists.

A Fortune 500, for whom we cannot work presently because we are bound by a
non-compete agreement with another company, has asked us to recommend a
resource/ expert that could help them 'assess organizational talent' (in
their own words) and its match with their upcoming challenges.

At this preliminary stage, it sounds like what the client wants is
consulting and coaching to help them assess organizational competencies
and knowledge, as well as consulting and coaching for helping them come up
with a plan for managing their intellectual capital.

They have already been through all of the systems thinking, etc...
seminars, and are not interested in the theory of learning, but
in developing practical applications.

From: jmb@panix.com (Jean-Marie Bonthous)
[ Bonthous ]

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 13:26:52 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: All
Subject: I propose we all apologise to Maharaji.
Message:
I propose we all apologise to Maharaji.Look at it like this.

The Captain is in trouble. The cult’s crumbling fast. He’s got the payments on the jet he doesn’t own to keep up. There’s the overheads of his mansions around the world. Annual dues to the Peter Frampton fan club. Large hospitality and entertainment bills. Petrol. Cigarettes. Booze. It’s not easy being the boss of a collapsing cult with a taste for expensive cognac and fast bras.

It sounds like his temper is getting shorter, and I’m sure there are people lurking everywhere, wondering how to break the bad news that the repo-man may be round for the speedboat next week unless they can find $X,000 or whatever.

He’s probably having trouble sleeping. He hasn’t got any real pals he can talk to. Everyone just sucks up to him all the time. It's not easy being a fallen avatar.

And if he hadn’t got mixed up with all us hippies in the West, he’d probably be in a nice pad in Dehra Duhn, with a Hindu wife, and everyone worshiping like they did in the old days. Instead of saying, “What are you wearing that fucking silly hat for?” They’d say, “Oh look. Here comes Lord Krishna. Watch out for miracles. Dig the darshan.”

But no. He should have listened to his mum. He came to the West and got corrupted by the hippies. We got him into sex, drugs, cigarettes and drink. And look at him now. First he was seduced by all those Californian blonds, then they started pouring cognac down his neck. He goes down to the river to get some water for the ashram. Next thing he’s got a wife, four kids and private jet in Malibu. Talk about Maya.

We should apologise to the Captain for leading him astray. To make recompense, we should pay for a month in detox, stick him in some pyjamas, put some flowers round his neck, shove $500 and a portable DVD player in his pocket and stick him on a plane back to Dehra Duhn. Then he can go back to the ashram, live a life of purity, and rediscover his roots. And we can shut the forum down and get on with life.

Whaddya think?

Anth the confused, deluded, illusion.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 02:10:07 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Okay, here's his fucking apology
Message:
I am so fucking sorry that you turned out to be such a sorry sack of shit. Contact Anth for your one way plane ticket back to the sewage filled Ganges and take your Indian Guru trip with you.

There's your fucking apology, Maharaji

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 14:02:57 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: Hey Tonette.
Message:
I am so fucking sorry that you turned out to be such a sorry sack of shit. Contact Anth for your one way plane ticket back to the sewage filled Ganges and take your Indian Guru trip with you.

There's your fucking apology, Maharaji


---

Hey Tonette,

Here I am, trying to act as a go between, between a failed Lord of the Universe and his ex-devotees, and I get stuck with the bill for the plane ticket. Shit. I'm not that keen on the idea.

Maybe we can use the remaining premies to pay. We could do a deprogramming weekend for $500. (Just think of what you'll save when you cancel your bankers order, and stop going to programmes. It is worth it ten times over.)

I dunno. Maybe I've lost it completey.

Anth the hidden cry for help.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 20, 2001 at 11:24:15 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Hey what? Okay, I'll help
Message:
Okay, I'll pay for the one way plane ticket. Only if I get to be on the gig with the deprogramming and therapy. Okay?
Another stipulation, I'll pay for the ticket only if it has a stop over in Kabul, Afghanistan and M has to take one of those Taliban choppers to Jalalabad to make his connection.
Deal?

Tonette

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Nov 23, 2001 at 15:41:01 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: Sounds good to me Tonette.
Message:
In fact, maybe the ticket should just be to Kabul. I mean, not a leaf moves without his grace, so he'll be OK. Shit, he said he was going to establish Peace on Earth. Kabul would be a good place for him to manifest his powers and stop the war.

Anth laughing all the way to the fridge.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 16:24:40 (EST)
From: Zelda
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Well, I guess we DID abuse him...... [nt]
Message:
[nt]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 16:42:49 (EST)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: Zelda
Subject: I would like to DISABUSE him ...
Message:
I would like to disabuse Rawat of the notion that he is anything special.

Hey, Prempal, you're just this guy, you know! 'Fess up, geezer.

JohnT
- never a premie

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 15:07:16 (EST)
From: Simon Satsang
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: You've understood nothing
Message:
How dare you be so brash and brazen to say it's our fault! Who are we to bring down the Lord of the Universe? We're just scum and I beg and prostrate before my Lord and pray that one day he will lose his temper with me and tell me that it's all my fault.

O joy that day will bring. When I can crawl away knowing that I have brought forth the loving wrath of my Lord and he has cast me out of his domain where I will dwell as a shadow in perpetual remorse at how I got in the way of his big plan.

See the Amaroo disaster - I take full responsibility because I had not generated the wealth to donate to my Lord's work in this world, even though he excercises constantly with weights and excercise bikes so that he can perform his duties.

I did nothing. I am nothing and my only saddness is that Maharaji doesn't realise that it's all my fault because I deserve the worst and will be happy to be a microbe on the face a planet several million light years from here, if that pleaseth him etc etc...

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 14:43:23 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: I'm sorry, Maoharaji
Message:
Dear Rev Rawat,

I'm sorry I ever took you seriously when it seems you were just playing games. If I had just seen that your tongue was in your cheek when you told us you were greater than god then maybe I would still be with you, doing your Maoist trainings.

Anth, you said: ''...we should pay for a month in detox, stick him in some pyjamas, put some flowers round his neck, shove $500 and a portable DVD player in his pocket and stick him on a plane back to Dehra Duhn. Then he can go back to the ashram, live a life of purity, and rediscover his roots. And we can shut the forum down and get on with life.''

I was just wondering if we could save some money and not give him pyjamas. Couldn't he just wear those nice stripey ones that the detox clinic issues?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 16:17:09 (EST)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Good point Pat
Message:
I was just wondering if we could save some money and not give him pyjamas. Couldn't he just wear those nice stripey ones that the detox clinic issues?

Yeah Pat, the kind with no back in them with his Ass hanging out and all.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 16:48:57 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Brian Smith
Subject: As long as he doesn't do the Wobble Dance....
Message:
....while wearing those hospital pyjamas. He'd need a very large mala to cover his ass. Of course he could start a new trend among cult leaders. He'd be the REAL Rev Moon.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 17:43:26 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: He's Probably Wobbling Right Now...
Message:
The Maoharaji Wobble...LOLOL!

Hey, Pat, I made some of those malas and I was humbled.

I'd imagine about now he's well in his cups ordering his slaves around, being nasty, prickly, moody, and mean. Wanna bet he doesn't show up in Philly?

When he finally leaves for good, I think all the slaves who jumped ship get to hold a big 'ole Malibu lawn sale up on the bluff. We could call it the ''Even In Your Darkest Hour I Will Never Abandon You Lawn Sale,'' courtesy of Guru Big Blob Bluffer.

There's gotta be a couple of valuable things to sell right off the Malibu lot.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 02:25:17 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: It's all your fault Cynthia!
Message:
You should of used ALOT more flowers. I mean for pete's sake, cover up some of that adipose! Gross. It even giggled like some soft jello for those up close.
That's why he stopped with the Krisna/Wobble gig. You made his Mala's way too small and M finished the end of the only book he's ever read from cover to cover- The Emperors New Clothes.

Take care, Tonette

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 16:51:47 (EST)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: haaa,haaa har, har haw, ha, ha [nt]
Message:
[nt]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 15:35:15 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Maoharaji -great title (nt)
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 14:18:03 (EST)
From: Pullaver
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Re: I propose we all apologise to Maharaji.
Message:
Here's my apology:

Dear Maharaji:

I was twenty when you demanded I surrender the reins of my life to you. I'm sorry I took you so literally and moved into one of your 'shelters'. I'm sorry that I gave you my youth and ambition and money. I'm sorry that I was almost thirty before I could savour the warmth of a loved one next to my naked body again. I'm sorry for all those who were hurt, abused and discarded in sincerely trying to follow your direction. I'm sorry for all those who didn't have children and were estranged from their family and friends in attempting to serve you as you asked. I'm sorry for all who were forced to somehow piece together a life and career after pissing away all that time with you. I'm sorry that you have been able to amass a personal fortune on the backs of people like me and continue to spread your deception in this world. I'm sorry that you won't take responsiblity towards those you have harmed. I'm sorry that you are so callous, uncaring and self-absorbed that if you ever did hear these words they would be falling on deaf ears. I'm sorry that you don't see it this way. I'm sorry that I ever listened to you.

Sincerely,

L'il ol' humble me

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 15:20:38 (EST)
From: Barbara
Email: None
To: Pullaver
Subject: Well put and eloquent, Pullaver [nt]
Message:
[nt]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 15:34:45 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Barbara
Subject: Bravo from me, too (nt)
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 09:11:31 (EST)
From: How to exit the cult
Email: None
To: All
Subject: w/o having to explain yourself....
Message:
to other cult members until you are ready-

notify 'Team Leader' and others who you don't want to harass you that you feel that it is time to make real and fully understand what 'within inside' really means. Tell them that for some unknown reason that you haven't been as fortunate as they in making this wonderful experience constant and you want to be able to be a shining example of M's K like they are. Tell them you are practicing the K 8 to 10 hours a day and your HEART tells you to continue.

Beware some will tell you that there is a need for balance(meaning don't do that-do what will make them feel safer and less threatened by your behavior)

When you are ready implement step 2, which is putting a stop to those monthly charges to your credit card!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 08:15:01 (EST)
From: Vicki
Email: None
To: All
Subject: So who's the Competitor?
Message:
Revealing the American Language of Intelligence, by Jean-Marie

Bonthous, uncovers the emotions underlying the way American respond to the very idea of gathering and using information on competitors, and the irrational fears that prevent American companies from taking advantage of vital data. $45.00The book provides recommendations for making CI work in America’s corporate environment. 1996, 83 pages, US .
[ JMB's books ]

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 13:55:40 (EST)
From: Francesca ~)
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: Who are the brain police?
Message:
Remember that Frank Zappa and the Mothers of Invention song?

Now that we know about 'the trainings,' I am thinking that for a devoted premie, the surest way to get some darshan and make a lot of money is to aspire to be the corporate/psychological trainer du jour. And if you don't make it, you can still make a lot of money baffling 'em with bullshit.

I don't think much of corporate training, though I can't be totally black and white about every single thing out there. It seems to me that there are more sheep in the world that shepherds, and if you act like a shepherd, people may listen, at least for a while. CT was gearing up years ago when I was in LA with Tim Gallwey starting up the Inner Game work. After all those years of giving satsang and selling a vacuous, circuitous, mindless, smoke-and-mirrors theory like the 'specialness' of M, and the 'uniqueness' of K (which is indistinguishable from countless forms of meditation) -- corporate training, here we come!!

Bang your staff, and look around for them sheep. (Oh and it helps to have a few silly buzzwords, too.)

ROLF,

Francesca

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 08:34:40 (EST)
From: another reason
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: to visit New York, errr Philadelphia
Message:
Jean-Marie Bonthous has been living in the United States for 15 years where he founded JMB International, a New York-based company specialized in economic intelligence and strategic management. (...). [Total : 190 mots].
(3.25USD
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 19:57:56 (EST)
From: New York
Email: None
To: another reason
Subject: is the site of a
Message:
mahraji event this evening. will jmb be there?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 10:55:48 (EST)
From: vicki
Email: None
To: New York
Subject: Re: is the site of a
Message:
Didn't know there was a NY event. Did you go?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 15:36:40 (EST)
From: Question
Email: None
To: another reason
Subject: Where does Jean Marie live?
Message:
Isn't it in Malibu? Like just down the hill from the marble theme park with a bathroom every 10 feet where Maharaji lives?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 11:14:08 (EST)
From: Vicki
Email: None
To: Question
Subject: Re: Where does Jean Marie live?
Message:
Don't know but offices listed in NY, LA and Paris.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 04:31:39 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Leonid meteor showers - totally OT....
Message:
It's a once in a lifetime fireworks show. It won't happen again till 2099.

In about half an hour from posting this (it's just before 1.30 am PST) there may be as many as 1,000 meteors falling per hour.

The sky is clear. No fog for a change and it's chilly outside.

The local tribe of racoons are climbing up the pine tree in the neighbor's backyard chattering to each other with their eerie squeaks and clucks. They are very talkative and noisy.

I'm putting on something warm and heading back out.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 16:26:12 (EST)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Star Gazer
Message:
I had the opprtunity to check it out and it was beautiful, the weather co-operated here as well, clear and crisp with meteors falling every few seconds, just fantastic.

Truely a once in a lifetime experience

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 14:39:52 (EST)
From: Astrodome
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: Leonid meteor showers - totally OT....
Message:
This meteor shower is a harbinger of a disintegrating cult and fleeing souls streaking to freedom
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 11:03:38 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: Leonid meteor showers - totally OT....
Message:
I got up at about 1:20 am, went out and saw beautiful starry sky - a novelty in the last week in PNW. I went back to be having not seen a meteor. I heard Susan say 'I saw one' so we both went out. Our night sky to the east is blocked by a huge madrona tree and Seattle lights make that part of the sky to bright. But it was absolutely incredible to see the bigger meteors streak across above us and our very dark Western sky.

According to a friend, there was an astronomer on NPR waxing poetic about how the Leonids Meteor Shower is remenants of the Big Bang and contained the same cosmic dust that our planet and all life derived from. Don't know about all that but it was quite wonderful to see.

Richard, who saw strange and wonderful signs of great encoragement in the sky this morning

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 10:37:46 (EST)
From: Disculta
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: Leonid meteor showers - totally OT....
Message:
We had planned to stay up for them, but both crashed out, zonko.
But then I woke up at exactly 2am! We stumbled onto the back steps and watched the show. I made lots of wishes. It was cold, but thrilling.

Earlier in the day we had been watching this anthropological documentary about parts of Bali and Java, where, when children cry at night, the parents take them out and show them the sky, and say 'don't worry, there's your home' and they stop crying (they believe they ome from the Pleiades).

love ktd

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 06:04:02 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: What Channel is it on? (nt)
Message:
I don't know if my wireless reaches that far.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 06:18:44 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Re: What Channel is it on?
Message:
There may still be some tonight. Tune your wireless eyes to Leo on the eastern horizon.

And so to bed.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 05:50:22 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Thanks Pat, would of missed it! OT
Message:
Incrediable! Never seen so many meterorites in my entire life! What a SHOW!

Thanks again, Tonette

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 06:13:35 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: What a pleasure to know that just one...
Message:
other person at least got to see it - and that person was you.

We live on the beach so it is fairly dark out here but unfortunately they were coming from the east where all the light from the city is. So, we only saw the really big ones. After seeing 11 in just the first few minutes though, I stopped counting because I had already seen more than in my entire lifetime. And when they began to come in multiples I felt like I was at Wimbledon as I looked from north to south.

In parts of Spain they recorded 6,000 an hour. I watched for about 15 minutes before I got a crick in my neck and started to freeze. At it's peak there were about ten per minute which is 600 per hour. Most are only the size of a .22 bullet so we didn't see those.

The ones we saw were probably the size of a tennis ball or larger. I saw two red fireballs but most were white and many were phospherescent green and left glowing twinkling trails sparkling behind them which faded more slowly than any falling star I have ever seen before.

We were not the only nuts still awake oohing and aahing. Our neighbors two houses a way were doing the same.

They came so fast that I only managed to remember to make two wishes. The third time I remembered to wish I thought. ''I really don't have anything to wish for. I've got everything I already want.''

It was worth getting chilled to the bone and getting a crick in the neck.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 00:39:14 (EST)
From: J
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: What a pleasure to know that just one...
Message:
In parts of Spain they recorded 6,000 an hour.
That's alot, even for the Leonids....

Most are only the size of a .22 bullet so we didn't see those.
Actually most are grain of sand sized...

The ones we saw were probably the size of a tennis ball or larger.
Those are the pea sized ones...

I was indeed I was out watching them in the PNW as well. Thank god(not M) that it wasn't raining.

Cheers, J.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 08:36:45 (EST)
From: KIm
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: What a pleasure to know that just one...
Message:
Thank you so much for telling us about the meteors. It was far too cloudy here in London but now I feel as thought I can particpate in your lovely experience.

Blesings from Kim(wife of Jethro)

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 02:14:19 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: KIm
Subject: Lot's of ex's in London
Message:
And they like to party once in awhile. You should join them next time. Welcome

A Washington, DC chick or should I say Hen?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 11:11:01 (EST)
From: Kim
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: Re: Lot's of ex's in London
Message:
Pleased to meet you. I am not an ex, I am married to one.
I did meet a bunch of lovely exs at the party in London recently.

What a shame we didn't see the meteors.
Smile on.
Love Kim

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 04:22:20 (EST)
From: Peg
Email: pmaccanner@hotmail.com
To: Tonette
Subject: Is that London UK?
Message:
Are there? I would love to get together with an ex or two and I'm in London a lot... I communicate much better live.

Peg

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 15:02:52 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Peg
Subject: Peg, I hope you meet the London exes soon
Message:
There are quite a few of them and they seem to have wonderful get-togethers. Maybe you could invite Dick. He'd love the exes as he's such an ''intellectual.'' I would love to be if that happened.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 10:55:42 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Peg
Subject: I don't know. Let's Ask London Ex's..Attention
Message:
The get together takes place under the name of Lativian Nite. There's an archive of it somewhere here in cyber land. There's also been parties in LA I think.
Maybe Anth or someone can clue you in. It sounds like alot of fun when the ex's get together. Almost like the old days only you might not fit in if you don't like to eat and drink!
I know what you mean about being more communicative in person. I have a hard time with it too!
I hope you do get to check it out sometime!

Kind regards, An ex from Washington, DC Tonette

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 12:21:19 (EST)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: London (UK) Latvians
Message:
Yes,

People are talking about London, England. I met a whole bunch of exes at the last Latvian there. They were good fun, gentle, kind and funny people. Except none of them looked like I'd imagined (and I didn't even realise I had been making mental pictures).

Now I've got to go get on a train back to the Smoke (old term from the pea-souper smog days before smokeless fules and natural gas) because it's 5:20 pm here and THE END OF THE WORKING DAY!! YIPEEE I'M FREEEEEE!!!!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 22:13:26 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: JohnT
Subject: Re: London (UK) Latvians
Message:
I didn't know you met a bunch of exes. Cool. How about making your way to the romantic city of Victoria some day.

I'd like to see An ex-premie non-convention of non-stop fun and hooliganism. The Pacific West is a nice place in late spring, summer and autumn seasons.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 13:42:34 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: KIm
Subject: Pleased to meet you, Kim
Message:
San Francisco, like London, is usually too cloudy or foggy to see anything so we were very lucky.

Glad you got to see them Richard and Disculta.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 11:17:24 (EST)
From: Kim
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: Pleased to meet you, Kim
Message:
Please to meet a fellow sky lover. Hope we meet up in the flesh one day soon.

Love Kim

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 15:08:29 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Kim
Subject: Hi, Kim. maybe one day
Message:
....we'll have an international Latvian night in the conference center in Miami Beach. Jethro will explain the significance of that to you. I'm just wondering if the hall will be big enough.

Well, the internet is the next best thing. Isn't it fun? Maybe, one day we will meet. I hope so. I feel as if I know Jethro and hamzen already and a bunch of the other Latvians you've already met.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 04:37:39 (EST)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: Leonid meteor showers - totally OT....
Message:
Did you see the meteors?

J

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 04:45:19 (EST)
From: Chuck S.
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: YES, we see meteors...
Message:
From the back yard, away from streetlights, we've seen some very dramatic ones, mostly going from east to west. Some with very long, thick trails that quickly break apart. They are the most dramatic ones I've ever seen. The storm is supposed to peak around 2am, but I can't stay out there too long, it's too cold. I'm going to check it out again later before going to sleep.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 00:13:46 (EST)
From: Sir Dave
Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com
To: All
Subject: Send all group or 1-to-1 emails to
Message:
my address which is set up for this purpose which is

sirdavid12@hotmail.com

I want to hear the gossip and inside stories so please email me at that address, whether it be group email or one to one.

Please DON'T email me at my david_simpkiss email address because that's for private and personal mail only.

Thank you.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 00:28:26 (EST)
From: salam
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: I thought you
Message:
don't do a 1-to-1 anymore and you are into groupies.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 23:46:49 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: salam
Subject: While you're changing addresses
Message:
My old email address (rlrogers@wolfenet.com) no longer works. Please delete that one.

The current one is richard@rogers-graphics.com.

Thanks,
Richard

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 22:13:40 (EST)
From: RichMandrake
Email: None
To: All
Subject: The MahaMindfucker..Is he Consciously..
Message:
Manipulative...or is he just Really Good at it Naturally?...

John Macgregor's Post so eloquently expressed the Unresolvable Dichotomies that MahaRawat Used to Trap us in His Web.
I am still Stunned by How Blatantly Manipulative MahaRawat has become as Demonstrated by these 'Trainings'...and still wondering How I could have been so deceived for so Many Years..It does help to see that many other very Bright…sane….Good human beings have been equally deceived. As John states ..we were programmed in our impressionable late adolescence in a place within ourselves where rational assessment was not possible.
As to John's Posts, I would have found it very valuable if he had described more specifics...For Instance...John talks about the 'Amaroo Mutiny'...but gives only generalities..On the Subject of the trainings...He talks about games played that no one could win..and endless processes designed to beat down ones resistance...Does anyone have any specifics on any of these subjects????..I am Hungry to Know...what I Dont Know...

Also, I disagree with John's assessment that MahaRawat doesnt really know what hes doing...John is too kind…It sounds like MahaRawat knows EXACTLY what hes doing...Setting Up 'Ringers' to do his bidding...Carefully Scripting Scenarios...that look like Spontaneous Events..All To Bring Home these Points:

1. I am the Master. WHATEVER I Say Goes.(no Criticism of MahRawat Tolerated in the training…He Sets the Rules..but Breaks all His Rules whenever he Chooses. He is Revered…all others face arbitrary humiliation.)

2. You are VERY Flawed and Imperfect and NEED Me. Without ME you are Nothing( this seems to be the foundation from which ALL Other of MahaRawat's Manipulations Flow..Thus..from the Self-Criticism Processes in the training…to the Angry Daddy Walking Out game…to the Humiliation and Ostracism Play....They ALL Are Design to Drive this Point HOME)

3. Your Only Salvation is to Subjugate your will COMPLETELY to Me...and Beg My Attention and Approval (Please Maharaji come back it was ALL MY FAULT!!! I Recommit to the Group, Daddy..PLEASE COME BACK!!!!)

I believe Maharaji sets up this passion play with Complete conscious awareness and intent. He has the help of trained Psychologists who know what they are doing. He secretly places 'ringers' in the crowd to make sure the 'Script' is followed. DAMN!!…How More Consciously and Intentionally Manipulative can you Get.???

John goes into all the Mindfuck Dynamics with great insight and clarity..….but the bottom line is this…that as these trainings demonstrate...behind the Sweetness and light…when Maharaji's Status and Power are threatened…he is BRUTAL And RUTHLESS…Caring Nothing for the People who he Claims to be leading to the Promised Land…Behind the Blissful smile 'Maharaji's World' turns out to be filled with Darkness ,Manipulation and Fear…and the ONLY Rule that Stands….is that HE Gets Whatever He Wants…and You Get to give him what he wants….Or Else….Pretty Scary, eh?…

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 22:36:57 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: RichMandrake
Subject: John was being diplomatic
Message:
and letting us draw our own conclusions, IMO. If John Mc said that MAHA was an insufforable DICKHEAD, it would weaken his credibility from premies and strengthen objection from his opponents.

In regards to your quest about the Mutiny, John also said that he was going to refrain from mentioning names on the forum. This is very consistent with his diplomatic stance. And I trust that John has very good reason. Let's be patient, and allow the story to emerge, which I'm sure it will. Some of the recent posts have exceeded my expectations. I'm sure they'll just get better.

It's amazing how deep Maha's ugliness goes, eh? Hope you're feeling better, these days. I know what it's like for you Rich. I arrived at the forum a couple months before you. Just when you think you're getting a grip on the reality of cult participation and deceit, someone like John posts a whopper.

Cults are not innocent participation. They are riddled with deception, and it serves one person, the cult leader. Sadly, Maha is a sick man, not a genuine master.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 20:02:46 (EST)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: All
Subject: hey MariAnne
Message:
I thought this maybe of interest to you. You remember talking about mass suicide initiated by cult leaders after having their balls caught in a grinder? Well here is another on that took place in a 'remote' location. Of course Indian gurus don't do this sort of thing, yes?

Cheers, say hello to your slave driver.

NO TOOLS TO DIG UP UGANDA MASS GRAVE UGANDAN

police said on Tuesday they were unable to start examining a possible new mass grave used by members of a Doomsday cult believed to have murdered around 900 of its followers because they lacked equipment. Officials say they had sealed off a house in a Kampala suburb rented by cult leader 'Father' Dominic Kataribabo after locals noticed a strong smell coming from the ground following a heavy downpour last week. 'We are not really equipped for the job and it is unlikely we will be going there soon,' police spokesman Eric Naigambi said. He did not explain what equipment was missing but said a special task force was being created to deal with the issue. The government was heavily criticised last month for using bare-footed prisoners to exhume nearly 400 corpses from mass graves at homes belonging to the Movement for the Restoration of the Ten Commandments of God in southwestern Uganda. Around 500 other cult members were burned alive in a church at Kanungu in the same region on March 17.

from:

http://www.mg.co.za/mg/za/archive/2000apr/25aprpm-news.html

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 19:20:59 (EST)
From: Searcher
Email: None
To: All
Subject: The noose tightens
Message:
Rueter/AFP

Government called to ban cult

A cult victims support group has called on the government to outlaw a cult that they claim has destroyed families and preyed on the weak.
The cult, which has branches in almost every city and town, entices people with a simple promise, 'come and feel good'.
According to a spokesperson for the Cult Victims Supporters (CVS), 'that simple promise is just a bait to entice people into the cult'.
One victim said her sister joined the group and within a few months had given up her job and had become a vegetarian.
'She used to come around to watch the Monday night football, eat fried chicken and drink. Within weeks of joining this group she claimed that she should eat less meat and a week later she became a vegetarian for Christ sake'.
The CVS claims that the cult strips members of their individuality and encourages people to change into 'mindless robots' and tells them that repeating some simple techniques will change them for the better.
A local businessman said that his wife was invited to a meeting in a local hall with the promise of 'a natural way to feel better'.
Within weeks she was spending hours with the group and started to change.
'One night I followed her to a meeting. I couldn’t believe what I saw. This so-called instructor had my wife behaving like a child.
Do this, do that, clap your hands! It was sick.
Later on, when I asked my wife 'how was it?' she said it was great, but I know what I saw, they weren’t laughing'.
One concerned husband heard alarm bells when his wife refused to make him dinner saying she had, 'an appointment with the master'.
'Afterwards I asked her where she’d gone and she said she been 'climbing the stairway to heaven', when I asked if she got there, she laughed and said 'No, you don’t ever get anywhere with the master. No matter how hard you try you always end up in the same place'.
When confronted with the accusation that their activities can cause them pain, many cult members admit to it but say, 'there is no gain without pain'.
The CVS says that this idea of pain being 'beneficial' or 'just part of the process' is outrageous and clearly indicates that cult members are being brain washed.
And whilst some cult members insist they contribute freely and enjoy benefits from the group’s activities, the CVS dismisses these claims and says that these people are delusional and can no longer think for themselves.
'The CVS position is very clear, we don’t like what they’re doing, we don’t want to do it and they shouldn’t be doing it'.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 20, 2001 at 05:01:24 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Searcher
Subject: As requested by SC - IP# 198.142.18.218 [nt]
Message:
[nt]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 05:40:41 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Searcher
Subject: Not a noose.
Message:
In our case, it's not that we're watching the noose tighten around somebody's neck.

It's more like we're sitting around, having a laugh, watching a dog running around chasing it's own tail, in ever decreasing circles.

The worst that's going to happen to him, is he'll fall over, make himself sick and go back to his kennel and think about opening a luxury used car-mart. In fact it's inevitable.

Anth, step back, you don't want to get any on your legs.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 02:23:35 (EST)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: Searcher
Subject: Yeah Right, Are you trying to make a point here ?
Message:
or just be cute?

You don't seem to be doing well at either

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 19:42:55 (EST)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Searcher
Subject: Is that you, Bjorn?
Message:
If it is, you had better go back to the hole you were hiding in, because you have just made yourself a target again.

If Searcher isn't Bjorn, your comments are misguided.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 13:54:03 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: No, Marianne. It's Roupell.
Message:
Unlike him, his IP# does not lie.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 04:14:10 (EST)
From: SC
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Once again flat Pat foot goes into big mouth
Message:
Hello Sherlock,

You once proudly boasted (and posted) all the info you (as a very important) FA assistant get to see about various posters.

One of the things you claimed was that each computer has a separate id number (therefore identifying it beyond the isp). I laughed it off as your usual boastful bullshit but you and the FA insisted that this is the case.

Therefore, oh great one, perhaps you'd care to explain to my readers why the id number on my computer is different than the one used at the top of this thread, this despite the fact that yes, we both use Macintosh and, by golly, we also both use dingoblue as our isp. Shock horror!

ANY AUSSIES OUT THERE who use a Mac and dingoblue??? You are now 'roupelled' and will suffer scorn and derision forever!

Mr C, I doubt you'll come clean and admit yet another lieblunder so I've emailed everyone waiting for your reply/explanation NOT to hold their breath.

Incidentally, I'm quite happy to be associated with the post in question, it's much funnier than you ever are.

My first visit here in over a week and already the stench is overpowering.

So lastly and quickly....

My new crusade?

ALL PREMIES OFF THE NET. it really IS a web folks!

As you can see (and are, as usual, trying to take credit for) the current crusade is already spectacularly successful. Just a shame that you can't see all my brilliant behind the scenes efforts and really funny, incisive, deep, soulful, refreshing, revealing and totally on the nail messages to the mass readership out there.

Nevertheless...Soon, you saved, cult free, illuminated and liberated souls will be chattering away to each other and

only each other!

It's a sad sport but hey, guess someone's gotta do it!

They shoot horses don't they?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 20, 2001 at 05:03:21 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: SC
Subject: As requested by SC - IP# 198.142.18.148 [nt]
Message:
[nt]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 10:29:24 (EST)
From: Vicki
Email: None
To: SC
Subject: Re: Once again flat Pat foot goes into big mouth
Message:
The above post supports a theory of mine that has been lurking around in my brain for quite some time, and that is people such as SC post jibberish on FVII to rile ex's into a response that can then be used out of context. Please read the above post carefully and you will see he refers to just this.

My suggestion is plain and simple, we just don't respond to these posters. It is not a matter of keeping the forum open to any and all postings. People like this are using the forum for their own purposes which are counterproductive in the long run. Yes, they might be fun to debate and banter with, or at times even try to reason with. Why further M's and ev's purposes by giving this type of poster responses that he is soliciting through manipulation?

We can do the premies out there a big favor by keeping the forum on topic and factual. And we can save ourselves the headache these ignorant trolls are so adept at creating.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 17:04:28 (EST)
From: Francesca :o)
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: READ VICKI'S POST FOLKS -- IMPORTANT!!
Message:
[nt]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 04:18:51 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: SC
Subject: You said a mouthful, Mr Roupell [nt]
Message:
[nt]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 15:32:34 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: is it just me
Message:
Or do the Aussie weasels have ZERO credibility? Since when has there ever been honour, trust, and a pleasurable exchange of witty banter.

Really, this is all, as testified byJohn's personal knowledge, of the major trolls, intended to be a diversion. We know that already.

Why don't you just delete the stupid posts than we don't have to come here and read his insulting posts.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 15:59:47 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: Why don't we delete cultweasel posts?
Message:
a) That's a full time job and I don't have the time.

b) I still think they make good examples for lurking premies to see how ugly the cult fanatics are.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 17:10:04 (EST)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: JUST SAY NO -- don't respond to trolls
Message:
It's a novel exercise in self-control. There are some exchanges with the trolls that are civil on both sides -- but they are few and far between. Mostly the trolls incite exes to say things that could end up on CACa sites. Get my drift, folks???

Don't take the bait. Pat and Gerry don't have time, and this is an open forum. The solution is easy. It's been done on other bulletin boards, and it works. People do get tired of talking to themselves. Their ravings, left alone, look like just that.

Their little veiled jabs, that get exes to sometimes foam at the mouth, are calculated to do just that. Prove you are smarter than that. It should be obvious by now what's going on here.

Francesca

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 20:49:21 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: Re: JUST SAY NO -- don't respond to trolls
Message:
I'm saying NO. The self-restraint is hard but it does work. Trust me.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 23:33:11 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: Re: JUST SAY NO -- don't respond to trolls
Message:
I also take the pledge: I will not respond to trolls. We know the two who are forum addicts but I'll post a TROLL ALERT message if it's another name. If anyone else reads a new one by mistake I'd appreciate a heads up.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 16:42:52 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: Why don't we delete cultweasel posts?
Message:
Why don't I agree with you?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 09:20:17 (EST)
From: SC
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Yea but not THAT mouthful Mr C
Message:
Come on...admit the error (lie, false accusastion, libel, slander)...

and I'll give you an early mark..

You ain't gonna admit that I didn't start this thread are you?

Noted by the gallery? Good! :)

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 20, 2001 at 05:05:01 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: SC
Subject: As requested by SC - IP# 198.142.179.195 [nt]
Message:
[nt]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 00:59:02 (EST)
From: yea?
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: No, Marianne. It's Roupell. [nt]
Message:
[nt]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 13:15:54 (EST)
From: Not Bjorn
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Kool aid anyone?
Message:
If it is, you had better go back to the hole you were hiding in, because you have just made yourself a target again.

If Searcher isn't Bjorn, your comments are misguided.


---

at the contest for best drama queen, you win hands down Marianne.
your post about the boiling cauldron was the most humourous i read in ages. Even serious Jim who does not usually fall for this kind of exageration fell for it this time.
With the exes perspective, a Republican convention would be consired a Maoist boot camp...
Really, you should take it easy...everyone is alive and kickin' and there is no threat of Armageddon in the premie population (except in your own mind, of course)
Have a great day and stop worrying

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 15:24:39 (EST)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To:

Subject: Made myself a target, eh Roupell?
Message:



Copyright 1997 Paradise Web Enahancements


All Rights Reserved

Return to Index -:- Top of Index