Ex-Premie Forum 7 Archive | ||
From: Nov 20, 2001 | To: Nov 27, 2001 | Page: 1 of: 5 |
Skippy -:- anniversary -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 01:50:15 (EST) |
Salam -:- That did it. No more computers for me -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 23:45:22 (EST) |
__ Byline -:- Edited Excerpt, Maharaji in Curacao September 2001 [nt] -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 02:17:05 (EST) |
__ B -:- Re: That did it. No more computers for me -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 00:58:50 (EST) |
__ __ Ben Lurking -:- Re: That did it. No more computers for me -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 01:03:51 (EST) |
__ Sir Dave -:- Hmmm -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 00:26:22 (EST) |
__ __ Zelda -:- email address is a status symbol????? -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 01:51:37 (EST) |
Jim -:- M Accomplishes Goals, Tells Friends -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 22:53:30 (EST) |
__ Pullaver -:- Deja Vu -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 02:02:28 (EST) |
__ Barry -:- Hey Jim! -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 01:08:07 (EST) |
__ Andrea Eriksonn -:- Of COURSE it was Nice... -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 00:54:05 (EST) |
Barry -:- Whats a son of a bitch? -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 22:36:50 (EST) |
__ Jim -:- That is SO ot and SOOO funny! [nt] -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 22:39:55 (EST) |
__ __ Barry -:- had to do it. (ot) -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 22:51:42 (EST) |
Salam -:- Gerry -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 22:32:34 (EST) |
JHB -:- New Journey and White Pages Entries -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 19:23:45 (EST) |
Joe -:- It-Ain't-So has become a SEX site -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 19:00:43 (EST) |
__ Francesca -:- They probably can't complain -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 19:06:37 (EST) |
Kelly -:- First anniversary posting -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 18:42:54 (EST) |
__ Brian Smith -:- Thank You Kelly -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 02:05:51 (EST) |
__ Mercedes -:- Re: First anniversary posting -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 00:18:52 (EST) |
__ Jim -:- Re: First anniversary posting -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 21:10:27 (EST) |
__ PatC -:- Re: First anniversary posting -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 20:31:10 (EST) |
__ Marianne -:- Kelly! -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 19:41:43 (EST) |
__ __ Kelly -:- Marianne! -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 20:40:45 (EST) |
__ PatD -:- Happy Anniversary to you Kelly -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 19:32:43 (EST) |
__ __ Richard -:- Big hug Kelly -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 22:12:02 (EST) |
__ Joe -:- All the Best Kelly -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 19:09:30 (EST) |
__ Cynthia -:- Happy Anniversary... -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 19:08:03 (EST) |
__ __ Brian Smith -:- I remember well the dates -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 02:32:45 (EST) |
__ Gail -:- Re: First anniversary posting -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 18:56:45 (EST) |
JHB -:- EV already being dismantled -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 17:47:59 (EST) |
__ Joe -:- It's (as usual) About MONEY -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 18:19:57 (EST) |
__ __ PatC -:- NONE of that money stays in the community -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 20:20:28 (EST) |
__ __ Kelly -:- Re: It's (as usual) About MONEY -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 19:27:29 (EST) |
__ __ __ Jim -:- He he he, yes, this is, ahem, rich(?) -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 21:48:06 (EST) |
__ __ __ __ Barry -:- Jim!..... -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 22:54:55 (EST) |
__ __ __ Kelly -:- *******If you want a laugh****** -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 20:47:27 (EST) |
__ __ __ JHB -:- Talk about desperate!!! -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 19:31:59 (EST) |
__ __ __ __ Kelly -:- Treetalk -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 19:45:02 (EST) |
__ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- Wrong trees -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 19:59:48 (EST) |
__ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Agreed, John -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 19:43:27 (EST) |
__ Francesca :) -:- Whoa John! -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 18:06:27 (EST) |
__ __ __ Francesca -:- Re: Get your 'quotes' right -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 19:04:15 (EST) |
__ __ __ Cynthia -:- There's no ''Speaker's'' Fee.. But Expenses... -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 18:57:08 (EST) |
__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- FA ON DUTY....please... -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 18:59:39 (EST) |
__ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Re: FA ON DUTY....please... -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 19:07:19 (EST) |
__ __ __ __ __ Francesca ~) -:- TROLL altert? I wonder too. [nt] -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 19:05:19 (EST) |
__ __ __ __ __ __ The Exterminator -:- TROLL -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 20:14:09 (EST) |
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Troll -:- IP blocked? Sure!! -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 21:49:30 (EST) |
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Well, I tried but fanatics like you... -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 22:58:31 (EST) |
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ CW -:- Get your facts straight Bumface -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 00:12:24 (EST) |
__ __ __ gerry -:- Explain it then -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 18:31:38 (EST) |
__ __ __ Joe -:- So? -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 18:30:45 (EST) |
__ __ __ __ New Age Redneck -:- Haven't you heard? -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 18:37:05 (EST) |
__ __ JHB -:- Maybe so, but..... -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 18:11:59 (EST) |
salsa -:- family of LIARS -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 11:19:25 (EST) |
__ Brian Smith -:- Family of Revisionists too -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 16:13:27 (EST) |
__ __ Cynthia -:- Re: Family of Revisionists too -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 17:54:44 (EST) |
__ __ __ Brian Smith -:- These Crowns of Creation, these Avatars -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 00:56:22 (EST) |
__ __ __ Joe -:- Changing Body Images -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 18:24:51 (EST) |
__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- LOL! Flatulence... -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 19:21:33 (EST) |
__ Joe -:- Sat Pal: Question for PAMS -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 12:50:34 (EST) |
Manav Dharam -:- Hans Jayanti a huge success -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 11:13:19 (EST) |
__ Jean-Michel -:- Re: Hans Jayanti a huge success -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 11:31:39 (EST) |
__ __ Joe -:- Notice Bohle Ji in the Pictures -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 12:39:27 (EST) |
__ __ __ Cynthia -:- Re: Notice Bohle Ji in the Pictures -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 13:41:42 (EST) |
__ __ __ __ Brian Smith -:- Miserable and Bored -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 01:34:29 (EST) |
__ __ __ __ PatD -:- Re: Notice Bohle Ji in the Pictures -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 19:57:42 (EST) |
__ __ __ cq -:- Bhole Ji - what a cutesy ! -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 13:29:19 (EST) |
__ __ __ __ cq -:- Re: Bhole Ji - what a cutesy ! -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 14:31:59 (EST) |
__ __ __ __ __ New Age Redneck -:- Re: Bhole Ji - what a cutesy ! -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 17:40:28 (EST) |
__ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- Is Bohle wearing PEARLS? (nt) -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 18:27:35 (EST) |
__ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Re: Bhole Ji - what a cutesy ! -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 18:22:13 (EST) |
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ New Age Redneck -:- Re: Bhole Ji - what a cutesy ! -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 18:32:49 (EST) |
__ __ __ __ Suzanne -:- Is that an advert for Weight Watchers? (nt) -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 14:30:32 (EST) |
__ Salam -:- Re: Hans Jayanti a huge success -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 11:29:41 (EST) |
Gerry -:- Apology to David Roupell -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 10:40:08 (EST) |
__ Jim -:- Blame and shame for David Roupell -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 18:43:18 (EST) |
__ __ gerry -:- But Jim, what about Roupell's heart? -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 18:57:01 (EST) |
__ __ __ PatC -:- My New Age affirmation -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 20:28:18 (EST) |
__ gerry -:- Oh and Dave, Forum Stats... -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 11:42:32 (EST) |
__ __ New Age Redneck -:- Re: Oh and Dave, Forum Stats... -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 17:59:34 (EST) |
Scott T. -:- eerily familiar: PABL not PAM -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 05:24:09 (EST) |
TED Farkel -:- New Years bash at theTrac Center... -:- Sun, Nov 25, 2001 at 16:59:44 (EST) |
Gaucho -:- posted by gerry by request -:- Sun, Nov 25, 2001 at 15:18:19 (EST) |
Gerry -:- Defamation, Intimidation, and Pwk Trolls -:- Sun, Nov 25, 2001 at 12:03:05 (EST) |
__ CW -:- Re: Defamation, Intimidation, and Pwk Trolls -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 02:30:32 (EST) |
__ bill -:- Re professionals?-hire me -:- Sun, Nov 25, 2001 at 14:57:34 (EST) |
__ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Face it -:- Sun, Nov 25, 2001 at 23:48:29 (EST) |
__ __ gerry -:- Re: Defamation, Intimidation, and Pwk Trolls -:- Sun, Nov 25, 2001 at 13:09:54 (EST) |
__ __ __ __ PatC -:- CW can disprove involvement with CAC -:- Sun, Nov 25, 2001 at 19:35:21 (EST) |
__ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- How doyou lynch an anonymous ghost? [nt] -:- Sun, Nov 25, 2001 at 22:39:11 (EST) |
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Scaredy Cat frightened? -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 04:21:31 (EST) |
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ give it to him -:- juajuajuahahahhahaa NT -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 09:53:06 (EST) |
__ __ __ __ JHB -:- Cat, this is nonsense! -:- Sun, Nov 25, 2001 at 17:56:28 (EST) |
__ __ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- That's not what you said! -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 04:27:44 (EST) |
__ __ __ gerry -:- The Enigmatic Cat -:- Sun, Nov 25, 2001 at 13:43:00 (EST) |
__ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- CW Straight Up? hummmm -:- Sun, Nov 25, 2001 at 20:04:37 (EST) |
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Asst FA -:- Request to above poster, WCF -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 04:48:33 (EST) |
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Nickelodeon -:- Request denied. -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 19:17:15 (EST) |
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Multiple Alias Troll.... -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 20:37:18 (EST) |
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ JohnT -:- Cat lies like a cheap rug! -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 08:54:09 (EST) |
__ __ __ __ PatC -:- Yes, Gerry, this is an ex-premie forum -:- Sun, Nov 25, 2001 at 13:56:50 (EST) |
__ __ __ __ __ salsa -:- correct -:- Sun, Nov 25, 2001 at 14:26:26 (EST) |
__ __ __ __ __ __ such -:- salsa, -:- Sun, Nov 25, 2001 at 15:25:01 (EST) |
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ no -:- Re: salsa, -:- Sun, Nov 25, 2001 at 15:28:29 (EST) |
John Macgregor -:- Neurotheology -:- Sun, Nov 25, 2001 at 02:21:29 (EST) |
__ Pullaver -:- Re: Neurotheology -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 01:14:28 (EST) |
__ Nigel -:- Thanks, John.. -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 17:36:15 (EST) |
__ cq -:- Re: Neurotheology - the original link -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 12:48:35 (EST) |
__ Deputy Dog -:- Re: Neurotheology -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 12:01:05 (EST) |
__ __ Jim -:- Typically thoughtless post, Dog -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 18:49:35 (EST) |
__ __ Nigel -:- Figuring things out... -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 16:32:35 (EST) |
__ __ __ Cynthia -:- Re: Figuring things out... -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 18:12:15 (EST) |
__ __ __ __ Dr. Ruth -:- Re: Figuring things out... -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 23:45:31 (EST) |
__ __ __ New Age Redneck -:- Well said, as usual Nigel (nt) -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 17:44:06 (EST) |
__ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- Thnaks Nig, when you figure it all out let me know [nt] -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 16:38:06 (EST) |
__ __ gerry -:- It's fun to figure things out... -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 12:21:07 (EST) |
__ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- Re: It's fun to figure things out... -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 17:01:38 (EST) |
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- ***DOG'S GIVING SATSANG*** -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 18:55:31 (EST) |
__ __ __ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- Re: ***DOG'S GIVING SATSANG*** -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 22:07:28 (EST) |
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Don't forget 'A Stitch in Time' -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 22:29:03 (EST) |
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- I once was lost, but now I'm found! -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 22:41:36 (EST) |
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- What about my question? -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 23:08:58 (EST) |
__ __ __ __ New Age Redneck -:- Re: It's fun to figure things out... -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 18:19:03 (EST) |
__ __ __ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- My answer Mr. Redneck -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 21:45:06 (EST) |
__ Jean-Michel -:- Nigel's post on 'divine' experiences? -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 04:43:56 (EST) |
__ __ PatC - here it is -:- I made a copy - it was so good -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 04:53:18 (EST) |
__ __ __ New Age Redneck -:- Re: I made a copy - it was so good -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 18:29:23 (EST) |
__ Jim -:- Thanks for this, John -:- Sun, Nov 25, 2001 at 15:55:32 (EST) |
__ bill -:- Re: Neurotheology -:- Sun, Nov 25, 2001 at 15:30:44 (EST) |
__ berni -:- Re: Neurotheology - are you really real? -:- Sun, Nov 25, 2001 at 11:34:14 (EST) |
__ hamzen -:- Re: Neurotheology -:- Sun, Nov 25, 2001 at 07:16:07 (EST) |
__ PatC -:- Re: Neurotheology - William James -:- Sun, Nov 25, 2001 at 03:53:39 (EST) |
__ __ PatC -:- Sorry, one more try -:- Sun, Nov 25, 2001 at 14:01:40 (EST) |
__ __ salsa -:- bad link Pat -:- Sun, Nov 25, 2001 at 07:26:14 (EST) |
__ __ Tim G -:- Stick to the point. nt -:- Sun, Nov 25, 2001 at 05:00:50 (EST) |
__ __ __ Tim G -:- I'm talking to CW -:- Sun, Nov 25, 2001 at 05:09:47 (EST) |
__ __ __ __ gerry -:- dat ol' weasy be gwain [nt] -:- Sun, Nov 25, 2001 at 12:14:38 (EST) |
Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 01:50:15 (EST) From: Skippy Email: None To: All Subject: anniversary Message: | |
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Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 23:45:22 (EST) From: Salam Email: None To: All Subject: That did it. No more computers for me Message: | |
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Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 02:17:05 (EST) From: Byline Email: None To: Salam Subject: Edited Excerpt, Maharaji in Curacao September 2001 [nt] Message: | |
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Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 00:58:50 (EST) From: B Email: None To: Salam Subject: Re: That did it. No more computers for me Message: | |
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Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 01:03:51 (EST) From: Ben Lurking Email: None To: B Subject: Re: That did it. No more computers for me Message: | |
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Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 00:26:22 (EST) From: Sir Dave Email: None To: Salam Subject: Hmmm Message: | |
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Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 01:51:37 (EST) From: Zelda Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: email address is a status symbol????? Message: | |
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Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 22:53:30 (EST) From: Jim Email: None To: All Subject: M Accomplishes Goals, Tells Friends Message: | |
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Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 02:02:28 (EST) From: Pullaver Email: None To: Jim Subject: Deja Vu Message: | |
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Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 01:08:07 (EST) From: Barry Email: None To: Jim Subject: Hey Jim! Message: | |
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Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 00:54:05 (EST) From: Andrea Eriksonn Email: None To: Jim Subject: Of COURSE it was Nice... Message: | |
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Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 22:36:50 (EST) From: Barry Email: None To: All Subject: Whats a son of a bitch? Message: | |
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Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 22:39:55 (EST) From: Jim Email: None To: Barry Subject: That is SO ot and SOOO funny! [nt] Message: | |
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Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 22:51:42 (EST) From: Barry Email: None To: Jim Subject: had to do it. (ot) Message: | |
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Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 22:32:34 (EST) From: Salam Email: None To: All Subject: Gerry Message: | |
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Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 19:23:45 (EST) From: JHB Email: jhb@ex-premie.org To: All Subject: New Journey and White Pages Entries Message: | |
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Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 19:00:43 (EST) From: Joe Email: None To: All Subject: It-Ain't-So has become a SEX site Message: | |
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Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 19:06:37 (EST) From: Francesca Email: None To: Joe Subject: They probably can't complain Message: | |
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Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 18:42:54 (EST) From: Kelly Email: karen@ringrose.org.uk To: All Subject: First anniversary posting Message: | |
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Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 02:05:51 (EST) From: Brian Smith Email: None To: Kelly Subject: Thank You Kelly Message: | |
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Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 00:18:52 (EST) From: Mercedes Email: None To: Kelly Subject: Re: First anniversary posting Message: | |
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Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 21:10:27 (EST) From: Jim Email: None To: Kelly Subject: Re: First anniversary posting Message: | |
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Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 20:31:10 (EST) From: PatC Email: None To: Kelly Subject: Re: First anniversary posting Message: | |
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Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 19:41:43 (EST) From: Marianne Email: MarianneDB@aol.com To: Kelly Subject: Kelly! Message: | |
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Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 20:40:45 (EST) From: Kelly Email: None To: Marianne Subject: Marianne! Message: | |
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Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 19:32:43 (EST) From: PatD Email: None To: Kelly Subject: Happy Anniversary to you Kelly Message: | |
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Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 22:12:02 (EST) From: Richard Email: None To: PatD Subject: Big hug Kelly Message: | |
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Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 19:09:30 (EST) From: Joe Email: None To: Kelly Subject: All the Best Kelly Message: | |
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Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 19:08:03 (EST) From: Cynthia Email: None To: Kelly Subject: Happy Anniversary... Message: | |
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Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 02:32:45 (EST) From: Brian Smith Email: None To: Cynthia Subject: I remember well the dates Message: | |
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Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 18:56:45 (EST) From: Gail Email: gcmacdougall@yahoo.ca To: Kelly Subject: Re: First anniversary posting Message: | |
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Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 17:47:59 (EST) From: JHB Email: None To: All Subject: EV already being dismantled Message: | |
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Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 18:19:57 (EST) From: Joe Email: None To: JHB Subject: It's (as usual) About MONEY Message: | |
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Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 20:20:28 (EST) From: PatC Email: None To: Joe Subject: NONE of that money stays in the community Message: | |
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Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 19:27:29 (EST) From: Kelly Email: None To: Joe Subject: Re: It's (as usual) About MONEY Message: | |
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Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 21:48:06 (EST) From: Jim Email: None To: Kelly Subject: He he he, yes, this is, ahem, rich(?) Message: | |
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Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 22:54:55 (EST) From: Barry Email: None To: Jim Subject: Jim!..... Message: | |
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Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 20:47:27 (EST) From: Kelly Email: None To: Kelly Subject: *******If you want a laugh****** Message: | |
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Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 19:31:59 (EST) From: JHB Email: None To: Kelly Subject: Talk about desperate!!! Message: | |
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Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 19:45:02 (EST) From: Kelly Email: None To: JHB Subject: Treetalk Message: | |
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Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 19:59:48 (EST) From: JHB Email: None To: Kelly Subject: Wrong trees Message: | |
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Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 19:43:27 (EST) From: Marianne Email: None To: JHB Subject: Agreed, John Message: | |
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Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 18:06:27 (EST) From: Francesca :) Email: None To: JHB Subject: Whoa John! Message: | |
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Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 19:04:15 (EST) From: Francesca Email: None To: Kitty Subject: Re: Get your 'quotes' right Message: | |
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Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 18:57:08 (EST) From: Cynthia Email: None To: Kitty Subject: There's no ''Speaker's'' Fee.. But Expenses... Message: | |
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Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 18:59:39 (EST) From: Cynthia Email: None To: Cynthia Subject: FA ON DUTY....please... Message: | |
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Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 19:07:19 (EST) From: gerry Email: None To: Cynthia Subject: Re: FA ON DUTY....please... Message: | |
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Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 19:05:19 (EST) From: Francesca ~) Email: None To: Cynthia Subject: TROLL altert? I wonder too. [nt] Message: | |
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Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 20:14:09 (EST) From: The Exterminator Email: None To: Francesca ~) Subject: TROLL Message: | |
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Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 21:49:30 (EST) From: Troll Email: None To: The Exterminator Subject: IP blocked? Sure!! Message: | |
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Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 22:58:31 (EST) From: PatC Email: None To: Troll Subject: Well, I tried but fanatics like you... Message: | |
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Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 00:12:24 (EST) From: CW Email: None To: PatC Subject: Get your facts straight Bumface Message: | |
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Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 18:31:38 (EST) From: gerry Email: None To: Kitty Subject: Explain it then Message: | |
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Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 18:30:45 (EST) From: Joe Email: None To: Kitty Subject: So? Message: | |
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Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 18:37:05 (EST) From: New Age Redneck Email: None To: Joe Subject: Haven't you heard? Message: | |
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Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 18:11:59 (EST) From: JHB Email: None To: Francesca :) Subject: Maybe so, but..... Message: | |
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Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 11:19:25 (EST) From: salsa Email: None To: All Subject: family of LIARS Message: | |
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Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 16:13:27 (EST) From: Brian Smith Email: None To: salsa Subject: Family of Revisionists too Message: | |
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Date: Sun, Nov 25, 2001 at 02:21:29 (EST) From: John Macgregor Email: None To: All Subject: Neurotheology Message: | |
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Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 12:48:35 (EST) From: cq Email: None To: John Macgregor Subject: Re: Neurotheology - the original link Message: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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CALL IT A MYSTICAL EXPERIENCE, a spiritual moment, even a religious epiphany, if you like—but Austin will not. Rather than interpret his instant of grace as proof of a reality beyond the comprehension of our senses, much less as proof of a deity, Austin took it as “proof of the existence of the brain.” He isn’t being smart-alecky. As a neurologist, he accepts that all we see, hear, feel and think is mediated or created by the brain. Austin’s moment in the Underground therefore inspired him to explore the neurological underpinnings of spiritual and mystical experience. In order to feel that time, fear and self-consciousness have dissolved, he reasoned, certain brain circuits must be interrupted. Which ones? Activity in the amygdala, which monitors the environment for threats and registers fear, must be damped. Parietal-lobe circuits, which orient you in space and mark the sharp distinction between self and world, must go quiet. Frontal- and temporal-lobe circuits, which mark time and generate self-awareness, must disengage. When that happens, Austin concludes in a recent paper, “what we think of as our ‘higher’ functions of selfhood appear briefly to ‘drop out,’ ‘dissolve,’ or be ‘deleted from consciousness’.” When he spun out his theories in 1998, in the 844-page “Zen and the Brain,” it was published not by some flaky New Age outfit but by MIT Press. Join Sharon Begley for a Live Talk on Thursday, May 3 at noon EDT to discuss 'Neurotheology' and its theories and how they differ from what you might believe. Since then, more and more scientists have flocked to “neurotheology,” the study of the neurobiology of religion and spirituality. Last year the American Psychological Association published “Varieties of Anomalous Experience,” covering enigmas from near-death experiences to mystical ones. At Columbia University’s new Center for the Study of Science and Religion, one program investigates how spiritual experiences reflect “peculiarly recurrent events in human brains.” In December, the scholarly Journal of Consciousness Studies devoted its issue to religious moments ranging from “Christic visions” to “shamanic states of consciousness.” In May the book “Religion in Mind,” tackling subjects such as how religious practices act back on the brain’s frontal lobes to inspire optimism and even creativity, reaches stores. And in “Why God Won’t Go Away,” published in April, Dr. Andrew Newberg of the University of Pennsylvania and his late collaborator, Eugene d’Aquili, use brain-imaging data they collected from Tibetan Buddhists lost in meditation and from Franciscan nuns deep in prayer to ... well, what they do involves a lot of neuro-jargon about lobes and fissures. In a nutshell, though, they use the data to identify what seems to be the brain’s spirituality circuit, and to explain how it is that religious rituals have the power to move believers and nonbelievers alike. | --- **** EMPTY CELL FOR SPACING ***** --- > | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
--- Empty cell for spacing --- > | What all the new research shares is a passion for uncovering the neurological underpinnings of spiritual and mystical experiences—for discovering, in short, what happens in our brains when we sense that we “have encountered a reality different from—and, in some crucial sense, higher than—the reality of everyday experience,” as psychologist David Wulff of Wheaton College in Massachusetts puts it. | --- Empty cell for spacing --- > | OUTSIDE OF TIME AND SPACE What all the new research shares is a passion for uncovering the neurological underpinnings of spiritual and mystical experiences—for discovering, in short, what happens in our brains when we sense that we “have encountered a reality different from—and, in some crucial sense, higher than—the reality of everyday experience,” as psychologist David Wulff of Wheaton College in Massachusetts puts it. In neurotheology, psychologists and neurologists try to pinpoint which regions turn on, and which turn off, during experiences that seem to exist outside time and space. In this way it differs from the rudimentary research of the 1950s and 1960s that found, yeah, brain waves change when you meditate. But that research was silent on why brain waves change, or which specific regions in the brain lie behind the change. Neuroimaging of a living, working brain simply didn’t exist back then. In contrast, today’s studies try to identify the brain circuits that surge with activity when we think we have encountered the divine, and when we feel transported by intense prayer, an uplifting ritual or sacred music. Although the field is brand new and the answers only tentative, one thing is clear. Spiritual experiences are so consistent across cultures, across time and across faiths, says Wulff, that it “suggest[s] a common core that is likely a reflection of structures and processes in the human brain.” There was a feeling of energy centered within me ... going out to infinite space and returning ... There was a relaxing of the dualistic mind, and an intense feeling of love. I felt a profound letting go of the boundaries around me, and a connection with some kind of energy and state of being that had a quality of clarity, transparency and joy. I felt a deep and profound sense of connection to everything, recognizing that there never was a true separation at all.
That is how Dr. Michael J. Baime, a colleague of Andrew Newberg’s at Penn, describes what he feels at the moment of peak transcendence when he practices Tibetan Buddhist meditation, as he has since he was 14 in 1969. Baime offered his brain to Newberg, who, since childhood, had wondered about the mystery of God’s existence. At Penn, Newberg’s specialty is radiology, so he teamed with Eugene d’Aquili to use imaging techniques to detect which regions of the brain are active during spiritual experiences. The scientists recruited Baime and seven other Tibetan Buddhists, all skilled meditators. TESTING FOR THE TIMELESS AND INFINITE In a typical run, Baime settled onto the floor of a small darkened room, lit only by a few candles and filled with jasmine incense. A string of twine lay beside him. Concentrating on a mental image, he focused and focused, quieting his conscious mind (he told the scientists afterward) until something he identifies as his true inner self emerged. It felt “timeless and infinite,” Baime said afterward, “a part of everyone and everything in existence.” When he reached the “peak” of spiritual intensity, he tugged on the twine. Newberg, huddled outside the room and holding the other end, felt the pull and quickly injected a radioactive tracer into an IV line that ran into Baime’s left arm. After a few moments, he whisked Baime off to a SPECT (single photon emission computed tomography) machine. By detecting the tracer, it tracks blood flow in the brain. Blood flow correlates with neuronal activity.--- --- --- Right Col No Wrap --- --- --- -> | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Source: Newsweek The SPECT images are as close as scientists have come to snapping a photo of a transcendent experience. As expected, the prefrontal cortex, seat of attention, lit up: Baime, after all, was focusing deeply. But it was a quieting of activity that stood out. A bundle of neurons in the superior parietal lobe, toward the top and back of the brain, had gone dark. This region, nicknamed the “orientation association area,” processes information about space and time, and the orientation of the body in space. It determines where the body ends and the rest of the world begins. Specifically, the left orientation area creates the sensation of a physically delimited body; the right orientation area creates the sense of the physical space in which the body exists. (An injury to this area can so cripple your ability to maneuver in physical space that you cannot figure the distance and angles needed to navigate the route to a chair across the room.)--- LEFT COLUMN-A --- > | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
SELF AND NOT-SELF The orientation area requires sensory input to do its calculus. “If you block sensory inputs to this region, as you do during the intense concentration of meditation, you prevent the brain from forming the distinction between self and not-self,” says Newberg. With no information from the senses arriving, the left orientation area cannot find any boundary between the self and the world. As a result, the brain seems to have no choice but “to perceive the self as endless and intimately interwoven with everyone and everything,” Newberg and d’Aquili write in “Why God Won’t Go Away.” The right orientation area, equally bereft of sensory data, defaults to a feeling of infinite space. The meditators feel that they have touched infinity. I felt communion, peace, openness to experience ... [There was] an awareness and responsiveness to God’s presence around me, and a feeling of centering, quieting, nothingness, [as well as] moments of fullness of the presence of God. [God was] permeating my being. This is how her 45-minute prayer made Sister Celeste, a Franciscan nun, feel, just before Newberg SPECT-scanned her. During her most intensely religious moments, when she felt a palpable sense of God’s presence and an absorption of her self into his being, her brain displayed changes like those in the Tibetan Buddhist meditators: her orientation area went dark. What Sister Celeste and the other nuns in the study felt, and what the meditators experienced, Newberg emphasizes, “were neither mistakes nor wishful thinking. They reflect real, biologically based events in the brain.” The fact that spiritual contemplation affects brain activity gives the experience a reality that psychologists and neuroscientists had long denied it, and explains why people experience ineffable, transcendent events as equally real as seeing a wondrous sunset or stubbing their toes. PINPOINTING SPIRITUAL EXPERIENCE That a religious experience is reflected in brain activity is not too surprising, actually. Everything we experience—from the sound of thunder to the sight of a poodle, the feeling of fear and the thought of a polka-dot castle—leaves a trace on the brain. Neurotheology is stalking bigger game than simply affirming that spiritual feelings leave neural footprints, too. By pinpointing the brain areas involved in spiritual experiences and tracing how such experiences arise, the scientists hope to learn whether anyone can have such experiences, and why spiritual experiences have the qualities they do. --- LEFT COLUMN-A --- > | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
I could hear the singing of the planets, and wave after wave of light washed over me. But ... I was the light as well ... I no longer existed as a separate ‘I’ ... I saw into the structure of the universe. I had the impression of knowing beyond knowledge and being given glimpses into ALL. That was how author Sophy Burnham described her experience at Machu Picchu, in her 1997 book “The Ecstatic Journey.” Although there was no scientist around to whisk her into a SPECT machine and confirm that her orientation area was AWOL, it was almost certainly quiescent. That said, just because an experience has a neural correlate does not mean that the experience exists “only” in the brain, or that it is a figment of brain activity with no independent reality. Think of what happens when you dig into an apple pie. The brain’s olfactory region registers the aroma of the cinnamon and fruit. The somatosensory cortex processes the feel of the flaky crust on the tongue and lips. The visual cortex registers the sight of the pie. Remembrances of pies past (Grandma’s kitchen, the corner bake shop ...) activate association cortices. A neuroscientist with too much time on his hands could undoubtedly produce a PET scan of “your brain on apple pie.” But that does not negate the reality of the pie. “The fact that spiritual experiences can be associated with distinct neural activity does not necessarily mean that such experiences are mere neurological illusions,” Newberg insists. “It’s no safer to say that spiritual urges and sensations are caused by brain activity than it is to say that the neurological changes through which we experience the pleasure of eating an apple cause the apple to exist.” The bottom line, he says, is that “there is no way to determine whether the neurological changes associated with spiritual experience mean that the brain is causing those experiences ... or is instead perceiving a spiritual reality.” PRODUCING VISIONS In fact, some of the same brain regions involved in the pie experience create religious experiences, too. When the image of a cross, or a Torah crowned in silver, triggers a sense of religious awe, it is because the brain’s visual-association area, which interprets what the eyes see and connects images to emotions and memories, has learned to link those images to that feeling. Visions that arise during prayer or ritual are also generated in the association area: electrical stimulation of the temporal lobes (which nestle along the sides of the head and house the circuits responsible for language, conceptual thinking and associations) produces visions. Temporal-lobe epilepsy—abnormal bursts of electrical activity in these regions—takes this to extremes. Although some studies have cast doubt on the connection between temporal-lobe epilepsy and religiosity, others find that the condition seems to trigger vivid, Joan of Arc-type religious visions and voices. In his recent book “Lying Awake,” novelist Mark Salzman conjures up the story of a cloistered nun who, after years of being unable to truly feel the presence of God, begins having visions. The cause is temporal-lobe epilepsy. Sister John of the Cross must wrestle with whether to have surgery, which would probably cure her—but would also end her visions. Dostoevsky, Saint Paul, Saint Teresa of Avila, Proust and others are thought to have had temporal-lobe epilepsy, leaving them obsessed with matters of the spirit. Although temporal-lobe epilepsy is rare, researchers suspect that focused bursts of electrical activity called “temporal-lobe transients” may yield mystical experiences. To test this idea, Michael Persinger of Laurentian University in Canada fits a helmet jury-rigged with electromagnets onto a volunteer’s head. The helmet creates a weak magnetic field, no stronger than that produced by a computer monitor. The field triggers bursts of electrical activity in the temporal lobes, Persinger finds, producing sensations that volunteers describe as supernatural or spiritual: an out-of-body experience, a sense of the divine. He suspects that religious experiences are evoked by mini electrical storms in the temporal lobes, and that such storms can be triggered by anxiety, personal crisis, lack of oxygen, low blood sugar and simple fatigue—suggesting a reason that some people “find God” in such moments. Why the temporal lobes? Persinger speculates that our left temporal lobe maintains our sense of self. When that region is stimulated but the right stays quiescent, the left interprets this as a sensed presence, as the self departing the body, or of God. | --- **** EMPTY CELL FOR SPACING ***** --- > | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
--- Empty cell for spacing --- > | Those most open to mystical experience tend also to be open to new experiences generally. They are usually creative and innovative, with a breadth of interests and a tolerance for ambiguity (as determined by questionnaire). They also tend toward fantasy, notes David Wulff ... | --- Empty cell for spacing --- > | I was alone upon the seashore ... I felt that I ... return[ed] from the solitude of individuation into the consciousness of unity with all that is ... Earth, heaven, and sea resounded as in one vast world encircling harmony ... I felt myself one with them. Is an experience like this one, described by the German philosopher Malwida von Meysenburg in 1900, within the reach of anyone? “Not everyone who meditates encounters these sorts of unitive experiences,” says Robert K.C. Forman, a scholar of comparative religion at Hunter College in New York City. “This suggests that some people may be genetically or temperamentally predisposed to mystical ability.” Those most open to mystical experience tend also to be open to new experiences generally. They are usually creative and innovative, with a breadth of interests and a tolerance for ambiguity (as determined by questionnaire). They also tend toward fantasy, notes David Wulff, “suggesting a capacity to suspend the judging process that distinguishes imaginings and real events.” Since “we all have the brain circuits that mediate spiritual experiences, probably most people have the capacity for having such experiences,” says Wulff. “But it’s possible to foreclose that possibility. If you are rational, controlled, not prone to fantasy, you will probably resist the experience.” MEASURING SPIRITUAL FORCE In survey after survey since the 1960s, between 30 and 40 percent or so of those asked say they have, at least once or twice, felt “very close to a powerful, spiritual force that seemed to lift you out of yourself.” Gallup polls in the 1990s found that 53 percent of American adults said they had had “a moment of sudden religious awakening or insight.” Reports of mystical experience increase with education, income and age (people in their 40s and 50s are most likely to have them). Yet many people seem no more able to have such an experience than to fly to Venus. One explanation came in 1999, when Australian researchers found that people who report mystical and spiritual experiences tend to have unusually easy access to subliminal consciousness. “In people whose unconscious thoughts tend to break through into consciousness more readily, we find some correlation with spiritual experiences,” says psychologist Michael Thalbourne of the University of Adelaide. Unfortunately, scientists are pretty clueless about what allows subconscious thoughts to pop into the consciousness of some people and not others. The single strongest predictor of such experiences, however, is something called “dissociation.” In this state, different regions of the brain disengage from others. “This theory, which explains hypnotizability so well, might explain mystical states, too,” says Michael Shermer, director of the Skeptics Society, which debunks paranormal phenomena. “Something really seems to be going on in the brain, with some module dissociating from the rest of the cortex.” Newsweek On Air: God and the Brain THE NEURAL BASIS FOR RELIGIOUS EXPERIENCE That dissociation may reflect unusual electrical crackling in one or more brain regions. In 1997, neurologist Vilayanur Ramachandran told the annual meeting of the Society for Neuroscience that there is “a neural basis for religious experience.” His preliminary results suggested that depth of religious feeling, or religiosity, might depend on natural—not helmet-induced—enhancements in the electrical activity of the temporal lobes. Interestingly, this region of the brain also seems important for speech perception. One experience common to many spiritual states is hearing the voice of God. It seems to arise when you misattribute inner speech (the “little voice” in your head that you know you generate yourself) to something outside yourself. During such experiences, the brain’s Broca’s area (responsible for speech production) switches on. Most of us can tell this is our inner voice speaking. But when sensory information is restricted, as happens during meditation or prayer, people are “more likely to misattribute internally generated thoughts to an external source,” suggests psychologist Richard Bentall of the University of Manchester in England in the book “Varieties of Anomalous Experience.” Stress and emotional arousal can also interfere with the brain’s ability to find the source of a voice, Bentall adds. In a 1998 study, researchers found that one particular brain region, called the right anterior cingulate, turned on when people heard something in the environment—a voice or a sound—and also when they hallucinated hearing something. But it stayed quiet when they imagined hearing something and thus were sure it came from their own brain. This region, says Bentall, “may contain the neural circuits responsible for tagging events as originating from the external world.” When it is inappropriately switched on, we are fooled into thinking the voice we hear comes from outside us. Even people who describe themselves as nonspiritual can be moved by religious ceremonies and liturgy. Hence the power of ritual. Drumming, dancing, incantations—all rivet attention on a single, intense source of sensory stimulation, including the body’s own movements. They also evoke powerful emotional responses. That combination—focused attention that excludes other sensory stimuli, plus heightened emotion—is key. Together, they seem to send the brain’s arousal system into hyperdrive, much as intense fear does. When this happens, explains Newberg, one of the brain structures responsible for maintaining equilibrium—the hippocampus—puts on the brakes. It inhibits the flow of signals between neurons, like a traffic cop preventing any more cars from entering the on-ramp to a tied-up highway. ‘SOFTENING OF THE BOUNDARIES OF THE SELF’ The result is that certain regions of the brain are deprived of neuronal input. One such deprived region seems to be the orientation area, the same spot that goes quiet during meditation and prayer. As in those states, without sensory input the orientation area cannot do its job of maintaining a sense of where the self leaves off and the world begins. That’s why ritual and liturgy can bring on what Newberg calls a “softening of the boundaries of the self”—and the sense of oneness and spiritual unity. Slow chanting, elegiac liturgical melodies and whispered ritualistic prayer all seem to work their magic in much the same way: they turn on the hippocampus directly and block neuronal traffic to some brain regions. The result again is “blurring the edges of the brain’s sense of self, opening the door to the unitary states that are the primary goal of religious ritual,” says Newberg. Researchers’ newfound interest in neurotheology reflects more than the availability of cool new toys to peer inside the working brain. Psychology and neuroscience have long neglected religion. Despite its centrality to the mental lives of so many people, religion has been met by what David Wulff calls “indifference or even apathy” on the part of science. When one psychologist, a practicing Christian, tried to discuss in his introductory psych book the role of faith in people’s lives, his publisher edited out most of it—for fear of offending readers. The rise of neurotheology represents a radical shift in that attitude. And whatever light science is shedding on spirituality, spirituality is returning the favor: mystical experiences, says Forman, may tell us something about consciousness, arguably the greatest mystery in neuroscience. “In mystical experiences, the content of the mind fades, sensory awareness drops out, so you are left only with pure consciousness,” says Forman. “This tells you that consciousness does not need an object, and is not a mere byproduct of sensory action.”
For all the tentative successes that scientists are scoring in their search for the biological bases of religious, spiritual and mystical experience, one mystery will surely lie forever beyond their grasp. They may trace a sense of transcendence to this bulge in our gray matter. And they may trace a feeling of the divine to that one. But it is likely that they will never resolve the greatest question of all—namely, whether our brain wiring creates God, or whether God created our brain wiring. Which you believe is, in the end, a matter of faith. With Anne Underwood © 2001 Newsweek, Inc. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||