Ex-Premie Forum 7 Archive
From: Jan 12, 2002 To: Jan 18, 2002 Page: 4 of: 5


JHB -:- Important message for the Enemies of EPO -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 16:27:30 (EST)
__ Suzie -:- You know what?? -:- Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 12:22:49 (EST)
__ __ Agent Orange -:- Propogation -:- Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 12:48:27 (EST)
__ __ __ Lou -:- this is exactly what cyberstalkers do -:- Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 13:04:49 (EST)
__ __ __ Marianne -:- Not a good idea -:- Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 12:53:56 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Agent Orange -:- Bad comparison, Marianne -:- Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 13:08:54 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Re: Bad comparison, Marianne -:- Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 13:19:02 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Agent Orange -:- They really should stop hacking EPO -:- Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 14:18:39 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- To Agent Orange... -:- Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 14:24:45 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Agent Orange -:- Re: To Agent Orange... -:- Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 16:09:23 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- P.S. Agent Orange... -:- Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 14:26:52 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Agreed, Marianne... -:- Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 14:10:10 (EST)
__ law man -:- JHB: would a warning label.... -:- Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 09:02:28 (EST)
__ __ JHB -:- Good idea, but.... -:- Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 10:11:12 (EST)
__ such -:- just talked to U.S. govt -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 19:45:37 (EST)
__ Cynthia -:- Re: Important message for the Enemies of EPO -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 18:31:37 (EST)
__ Gail -:- Will EPO be online soon? -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 18:08:36 (EST)
__ __ JHB -:- Not for a little while -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 18:14:04 (EST)
__ __ __ Marianne -:- Warning to the premie hackers -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 18:45:18 (EST)
__ __ __ __ housemom -:- Re: Warning to the premie hackers -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 21:28:13 (EST)
__ Mirror -:- Re: Important message for the Enemies of EPO -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 16:35:00 (EST)

Livia Dowte -:- ex-premie.org -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 09:46:15 (EST)
__ magiclara -:- Re: ex-premie.org -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 16:31:10 (EST)
__ keith -:- Re: ex-premie.org -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 16:13:03 (EST)
__ Tim G -:- Welcome Livia -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 14:25:04 (EST)
__ Kelly -:- Re: ex-premie.org and 'that video' -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 13:29:51 (EST)
__ __ magiclara -:- Re: ex-premie.org and 'that video' -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 16:26:35 (EST)
__ __ __ Kelly -:- Re: ex-premie.org and 'that video' -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 16:47:16 (EST)
__ __ __ __ magiclara -:- Re: ex-premie.org and 'that video' -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 16:54:53 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Kelly -:- Re: ex-premie.org and 'that video' -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 16:59:04 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ magiclara -:- Re: ex-premie.org and 'that video' -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 17:03:24 (EST)
__ JHB -:- Re: ex-premie.org -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 10:49:42 (EST)
__ __ Mirror -:- Re: ex-premie.org -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 13:08:10 (EST)
__ __ __ JHB -:- Re: ex-premie.org -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 15:52:27 (EST)
__ Silvia -:- welcome Livia -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 09:49:49 (EST)
__ __ Livia Dowte -:- Re: welcome Livia -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 17:58:31 (EST)
__ __ __ Kelly -:- Re: welcome Livia -:- Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 17:55:02 (EST)
__ __ __ Anandaji -:- Re: welcome Livia -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 22:15:10 (EST)
__ __ __ housemom -:- Re: welcome Livia -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 21:52:56 (EST)
__ __ __ __ magiclara -:- Hello and welcome Housemum nt -:- Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 06:29:41 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ housemom -:- thank u, great site!( nt) -:- Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 13:10:50 (EST)
__ __ __ silvia -:- Re: welcome Livia -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 20:00:09 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Livia Dowte -:- premie friends -:- Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 06:16:32 (EST)
__ __ __ suchabanana -:- Welcome, Livia! -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 19:25:15 (EST)
__ __ __ Disculta -:- Re: welcome Livia -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 18:11:28 (EST)
__ __ __ Kelly -:- Re: welcome Livia****GREAT POST ***** must read -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 18:09:47 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Disculta -:- Hey Kelly, you're up late xx nt. -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 18:13:03 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Kelly -:- Re: Hey Kelly, you're up late xx nt. -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 18:23:43 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Disculta -:- It's 3 in the afternoon -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 18:35:26 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Kelly -:- The other universe -:- Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 05:49:49 (EST)

Bai Ji -:- Is it just me or do you all -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 09:32:46 (EST)
__ magiclara -:- Re: Is it just me or do you all -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 17:06:31 (EST)
__ Sulla -:- I had to slow down before... -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 16:55:55 (EST)
__ __ Cynthia -:- About Reading EPO and the Forum... -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 18:22:59 (EST)
__ Tonette -:- I think I did at first -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 10:28:06 (EST)
__ __ Bai Ji -:- Sorry Tonette, I am not Pranam Bai. -:- Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 00:23:44 (EST)
__ __ Disculta -:- What became of Pranam Bai -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 20:28:59 (EST)
__ __ __ dv -:- Re: What became of Pranam Bai -:- Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 18:35:29 (EST)
__ no way -:- Re: Is it just me or do you all -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 09:51:23 (EST)
__ __ Joe -:- M in 1979 -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 14:40:08 (EST)
__ __ __ Joe -:- M in 1979 [nt] -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 14:41:42 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Bai Ji -:- Eez not seem to be working(nt) -:- Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 00:30:39 (EST)

JHB -:- EPO Stats -:- Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 19:27:12 (EST)
__ Sulla -:- Re: EPO Stats -:- Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 08:20:20 (EST)
__ Hi -:- Re: EPO Stats -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 06:35:03 (EST)
__ Tonette -:- Good Question -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 04:14:30 (EST)
__ such -:- Re: EPO pages -:- Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 20:23:54 (EST)
__ __ JHB -:- Re: EPO pages -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 02:22:32 (EST)
__ Suzie -:- Re: EPO Stats -:- Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 19:38:28 (EST)
__ __ JHB -:- Re: EPO Stats -:- Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 19:43:50 (EST)
__ __ __ gerry -:- Forum Seven Stats -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 14:21:48 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Re: Forum Seven Stats -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 14:54:59 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Cynthia, that last paragraph... -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 15:50:32 (EST)

Disculta -:- The loneliness of leaving -:- Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 16:01:29 (EST)
__ Anandaji -:- New kind of festival -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 23:26:18 (EST)
__ __ Tonette -:- Yeah, we could meet in Kissimee -:- Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 03:33:56 (EST)
__ __ __ suchaBanana -:- did you say 'kissa me'?? -:- Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 15:55:47 (EST)
__ Tonette -:- What a beautiful post! -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 09:52:59 (EST)
__ Bai Ji -:- Re: The loneliness of leaving -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 00:45:00 (EST)
__ __ Disculta -:- To Bai Ji -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 01:12:57 (EST)
__ __ __ Bai Ji -:- Re: To Bai Ji -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 01:17:45 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Disculta -:- Gardenia -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 01:20:29 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Bai Ji -:- Re: YAY for us! (nt) -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 01:23:21 (EST)
__ __ __ Disculta -:- PS To Bai Ji -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 01:16:36 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Bai Ji -:- Re: Got It! -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 01:22:14 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Bai Ji -:- Re: PS.Got It! -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 01:28:44 (EST)
__ st.john -:- Re: The loneliness of leaving -:- Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 23:41:30 (EST)
__ janet -:- Re: The loneliness of leaving -:- Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 21:37:57 (EST)
__ __ Tonette -:- I mailed you.... -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 04:22:33 (EST)
__ __ such -:- I thought about you today -:- Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 22:01:01 (EST)
__ Joy -:- I was so lucky -:- Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 21:23:23 (EST)
__ __ Francesca :~) -:- Joy to the World! -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 13:33:54 (EST)
__ __ __ Joy -:- Fran to the World! (ot) -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 20:52:06 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Joe -:- All You Knead in the Haight -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 21:05:52 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Joy -:- Yeah, I went there last year (ot) -:- Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 01:38:05 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- Amoeba Records -:- Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 12:31:16 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Thanks to Francesca, Joy and Joe -:- Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 00:34:40 (EST)
__ __ Joe -:- Thank you Joy -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 13:17:05 (EST)
__ __ __ Joy -:- French/German film cult leaving therapy -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 20:45:26 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Joe -:- Re: French/German film cult leaving therapy -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 21:00:45 (EST)
__ __ Joy -:- Thank you Joy -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 12:46:12 (EST)
__ Mercedes -:- Re: The loneliness of leaving -:- Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 18:24:17 (EST)
__ ExP -:- Love to meet you Katie but ... -:- Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 17:21:42 (EST)
__ __ Greenwich -:- ExP, I think only 8 hours. (nt) -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 21:09:46 (EST)

Joe -:- Tim Gallwey is a Liar -:- Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 15:15:02 (EST)
__ C -:- Tim Gallwey is a Liar [nt] -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 14:16:37 (EST)
__ __ Abi -:- Re: Tim Gallwey is a Liar -:- Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 02:41:44 (EST)
__ __ Joe -:- Picture of Gallwey (above) -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 14:19:13 (EST)
__ Inside Edition -:- Tim Gallway is also a facilitator -:- Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 22:55:57 (EST)
__ __ Abi -:- Re: Tim Gallway is also a facilitator -:- Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 02:44:47 (EST)
__ __ __ Cynthia -:- Pack of Liars... -:- Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 14:41:21 (EST)
__ __ suchabanana -:- The Proper Role of Facilitators -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 03:57:43 (EST)
__ __ __ Toejamanand -:- Re: The Proper Role of Facilitators -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 16:32:02 (EST)
__ __ __ __ such -:- uh, this is da antidote -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 19:15:11 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Toejamamanand -:- you are suchahilarious lil swami -:- Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 08:03:52 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ such -:- to find the answer: -:- Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 15:10:11 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Contestant no.3 -:- I timed out! -:- Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 17:42:19 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ such -:- ok, da answer: -:- Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 20:03:01 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Contestant no.3 -:- I timed out! -:- Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 17:24:56 (EST)
__ __ __ gerry -:- Swami, thanks for that. -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 11:35:24 (EST)
__ Joy -:- I remember satsang at his house in Malibu -:- Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 21:15:47 (EST)
__ __ la-ex -:- Gallwey -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 16:21:50 (EST)
__ __ __ Kelly -:- Hello La-ex! -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 16:55:07 (EST)
__ __ Bai Ji -:- Re: I remember satsang at his house in Malibu -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 00:03:01 (EST)
__ __ __ Marianne -:- Hello Bai Ji -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 00:37:36 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Bai Ji -:- Re: Hello Bai Ji -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 00:57:17 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Pullaver -:- Garnet and Shelley -:- Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 00:47:40 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Garnet? The Gentleman's Gentleman? -:- Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 11:48:13 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Re: Hello Bai Ji -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 01:48:46 (EST)
__ such -:- spin doctors vs. integrity -:- Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 19:51:17 (EST)
__ __ Pullaver -:- *****ANOTHER BEST OF***** -:- Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 01:08:26 (EST)
__ __ __ such -:- Re: *****ANOTHER BEST OF***** -:- Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 15:30:22 (EST)
__ __ Cynthia -:- Amazing post, Such [nt] -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 10:29:46 (EST)
__ __ Carl -:- Cult Caste System -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 10:23:42 (EST)
__ __ housemother -:- Re: spin doctors vs. integrity -:- Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 23:40:48 (EST)
__ __ __ Suzie -:- Erika Andersen and the Cult of Ambition -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 13:12:30 (EST)
__ __ __ __ housemom -:- Cult of Ambition YES! (nt) -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 20:04:07 (EST)
__ __ housemother -:- Bravo -:- Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 23:21:54 (EST)
__ __ Joe -:- Such, you are amazing -:- Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 22:54:16 (EST)
__ Vicki -:- Re: Tim Gallway is a Liar -:- Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 17:16:50 (EST)
__ __ Joe -:- Nouri Picture [nt] -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 14:23:47 (EST)
__ __ __ gerry -:- Re: Nouri Picture try this link -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 19:20:00 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Excellent! +) -:- Irony of Ironies -:- Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 01:23:43 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Irony man -:- Re: Irony of Ironies -:- Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 08:55:58 (EST)
__ __ __ __ housemom -:- ad nauseum (nt) -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 20:06:59 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- I never heard of him before EPO [nt] -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 20:22:50 (EST)
__ __ __ __ such -:- this part's great: -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 19:52:07 (EST)
__ __ Information -:- Re: Tim Gallway is a Liar -:- Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 13:24:45 (EST)
__ housemother -:- Re: Tim Gallway is a Liar -:- Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 15:33:47 (EST)


Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 16:27:30 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: brauns@apollo.lv
To: All
Subject: Important message for the Enemies of EPO
Message:
Ex-premies and ex-premies' websites have been attacked on the internet, by current followers of Maharaji, many times over the last few years. None of those attacks has had any impact on the sharing of the truth about Maharaji, his behavior, his background, his wealth, his claims to be someone special, and his claims to have rights over the meditation techniques. All attacks have been completely ineffective.

The latest attacks on the servers hosting EPO, although equally ineffective, are serious breaches of federal law in the USA, and are being treated as such by both the site hosting company, and ourselves. Those who are willing to break the law in their efforts to serve Maharaji, will learn whether Maharaji is above the law or not. We urge anyone who has broken the law, or is considering breaking the law, in their efforts to protect their Master, to seriously consider their actions. If you have broken the law in your use of the internet, consider the investigative powers the law enforcement authorities have.

We all came to Maharaji because we valued the truth. If the information on www.ex-premie.org is not true, then those who value the truth should be able to use the truth to fight us, not illegal uses of technology.

This message is also being sent to Maharaji. If he has any involvement in these attacks, then he now has an opportunity to instruct his followers to cease any illegal activities.

We would also hope that this situation could lead to open dialogue between Maharaji and his critics. Our door is always open.

Signed, on behalf of ex-premie contributors to www.ex-premie.org,

John Brauns
webmaster www.ex-premie.org
Email: brauns@apollo.lv

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Date: Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 12:22:49 (EST)
From: Suzie
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: You know what??
Message:
I was just an occasional lurker and hardly ever posted until the CAC attack happened. That made me so angry, it not only confirmed that the cult is toxic to the core, but it made me want to redouble my efforts. I told all my premie friends that I was an ex-premie and about EPO.

Now, this latest attack on EPO makes me want to run off a copy of the '14-points' take it over to Kinkos and have copies made, stand on the sidewalk outside whatever cult event I can find, and hand them out to everyone.'

These Maharaji fanatics do not realize that these kinds of attacks just backfire on them and the Maha. They are as out of touch with reality as their divine leader is.

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Date: Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 12:48:27 (EST)
From: Agent Orange
Email: None
To: Suzie
Subject: Propogation
Message:
Is it time to let Maharaji's neighbors on Anacapa View Drive know that the Lord is Here and living next door?

I did a search and easily pulled up the names and addresses of several people who live in the vicinity of the Lord. Should they be sent a propagation package of sorts? Pictures, quotes, that sort of thing.

I'm just full of ideas for propagation and the potential for some real publicity is looking brighter than, well, a thousand suns.

Here's an idea: the hackers stop and we don't escalate this beyond the internet.

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Date: Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 13:04:49 (EST)
From: Lou
Email: None
To: Agent Orange
Subject: this is exactly what cyberstalkers do
Message:
Is it time to let Maharaji's neighbors on Anacapa View Drive know that the Lord is Here and living next door?

I did a search and easily pulled up the names and addresses of several people who live in the vicinity of the Lord. Should they be sent a propagation package of sorts? Pictures, quotes, that sort of thing.

I'm just full of ideas for propagation and the potential for some real publicity is looking brighter than, well, a thousand suns.

Here's an idea: the hackers stop and we don't escalate this beyond the internet.


---

congratulations

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Date: Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 12:53:56 (EST)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Agent Orange
Subject: Not a good idea
Message:
This smacks of the same kind of blackmail that was used against Sir Dave by the CACsters when they made him remove his websites in order to get the pictures of his daughter removed from the CAC site. Don't do it.

Marianne

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Date: Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 13:08:54 (EST)
From: Agent Orange
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Bad comparison, Marianne
Message:
But I agree on not doing it and I haven't done anything in the past like this and would not do this dirty trick either.

But there are a couple of points which make this different from posting a picture of David's daughter. Firt, I would use pictures and quotes from his own material. Public material published by an adult. Not a defenseless little girl. Plus I'm not trying to deny him any of his rights, like a website, but rather, all I want is for the hackers to stop denying us our rights to our website.

So no, the two are not comparable.

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Date: Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 13:19:02 (EST)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Agent Orange
Subject: Re: Bad comparison, Marianne
Message:
Yes, I understand why you feel this way and what you are saying.

The fact that the hackers are making EPO inaccessible shows to what ends cult members will go to protect their leader. It also shows how fearful they are of people reading the truth about Captain Rawat. The hackers may have bitten off more than they can chew this time.

I am all for exposing Rotwat, but not in the manner suggested.

Marianne

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Date: Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 14:18:39 (EST)
From: Agent Orange
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: They really should stop hacking EPO
Message:
I once heard about these disgruntled former devotees of another guru fraud who postered the guru's hometown advertising a free lecture followed by a wine and cheese reception at the greed guru's own house. The street was packed with cars at the announced time. Boy, were the neighbors pissed!
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Date: Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 14:24:45 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Agent Orange
Subject: To Agent Orange...
Message:
Whoever you are, if you intend to engage in street theatrics, you must at least let us know what your real name is.

You're idea may seem like a good way for you to vent, but legally, it's a very bad idea.

Cynthia J. Gracie
Vermont, USA

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Date: Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 16:09:23 (EST)
From: Agent Orange
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Re: To Agent Orange...
Message:
Oh no, I can't tell my name because I'd no longer be a secret agent.

I don't advocate doing anything illegal.

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Date: Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 14:26:52 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: P.S. Agent Orange...
Message:
Why must maharaji's neighbors suffer because HE's a megalomanical cult leader?

Think this through, please.

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Date: Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 14:10:10 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Agreed, Marianne...
Message:
It's not the time for street theatrics. Hacking the EPO site is a criminal offense and that should be the focus IMO.

I'm feeling quite angry today about all of this shit. But I believe anyone who wants to attack maharaji literally where he lives, using EPO material, would find themselves in jail. It is an elite neighborhood, after all, and who cares if the richies in his neighborhood know about him? I certainly don't. And they probably don't give a rat's ass either.

It's important NOT to tarnish the reputation of EPO, and the longstanding posters here on Forum Seven.

So I agree Marianne, that we can vent here, and see what happens in a legal way, using legal means.

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Date: Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 09:02:28 (EST)
From: law man
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: JHB: would a warning label....
Message:
on the homepage of epo work?

Something that states what has happened in the past from the maha's minions, and what the penalty under law might be for those who carry out his 'agya' however indirect it might be?

Also, a note about how maha issues agya, but has the minions carry it out, with the minions taking the legal rap, if any...

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Date: Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 10:11:12 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: law man
Subject: Good idea, but....
Message:
... I need a homepage to put it on:-)

Watch this space....

John.

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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 19:45:37 (EST)
From: such
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: just talked to U.S. govt
Message:
an agent of the USA's FBI [Federal Bureau of Investigation] told me that cyber-terrorism is covered under the new anti-terrorist laws recently passed by the US Congress.

Apparently, this could lead to a much bigger investigation. hmmmmmm...

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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 18:31:37 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Re: Important message for the Enemies of EPO
Message:
Good post, John.

Especially to those, like Maharaj and his snobby PAMs who think they are above the law.

Cynthia

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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 18:08:36 (EST)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Will EPO be online soon?
Message:
I've tried three different search engines, and they all say address not found. What gives?
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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 18:14:04 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Not for a little while
Message:
Everything possible is being done to get EPO back on-line.

It will be back.

John.

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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 18:45:18 (EST)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Warning to the premie hackers
Message:
What goes around comes around.
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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 21:28:13 (EST)
From: housemom
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Re: Warning to the premie hackers
Message:
I recently learned a bit about cyber crime and how seriously it is taken now. A close friend, someone I help care for, received a somewhat anti-semitic email. She reported it to her caregivers, and we in turn reported it to the FBI. I was designated point person for her, and spoke with the Feds, who explained that after 911 all cyber crimes, especially having to do with religious issues, are taken very seriously. They explained that any cyber crime that crosses state lines is a felony, and they had me contact the Cyber Crime Unit of my local PD who are also investigating. There are apparently state and federal agents whose duty it is to investigate and file against anyone who steals, threatens, sabotages,or in anyway causes harm over the internet. Clearly cults are under greater scrutiny now, and I would imagine that the lawyers of Sauron The Dark Lord would advise his followers against such actions.
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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 16:35:00 (EST)
From: Mirror
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Re: Important message for the Enemies of EPO
Message:
jeepers, did EPO get hacked??

Mirror

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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 09:46:15 (EST)
From: Livia Dowte
Email: None
To: All
Subject: ex-premie.org
Message:
It seems to be impossible to get onto Ex-Premie.Org again. Could the site be under attack? Is this technically possible? (I don't know much about these things.) Also, is anyone out there actually making copies of 'Passages' and the Atlanta video? I'm feeling a need to see them, and I think a lot of other people over here could do with seeing them too. I'm in England but would be happy to send cheque etc to cover costs.
I love reading all the stuff on this forum and thank you all for being there.
With love.
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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 16:31:10 (EST)
From: magiclara
Email: None
To: Livia Dowte
Subject: Re: ex-premie.org
Message:
Hi Livia and welcome. I don't know if anyone in the UK has a version we could play here. I suppose we could buy one but it goes against the grain to give money to gooey. Might be worth it though if we could have a get together like the americans did.
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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 16:13:03 (EST)
From: keith
Email: keith@yahoo.com
To: Livia Dowte
Subject: Re: ex-premie.org
Message:
Yeh, same here. Can't get onto the site today. Just new to the the site and related forums etc., and wonder what the problem is.
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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 14:25:04 (EST)
From: Tim G
Email: timgitti@indigo.ie
To: Livia Dowte
Subject: Welcome Livia
Message:
HI Livia
Welcome aboard. It's fun going thru the entrails of our past involvment and sometimes quite illuminating too. Oh God! When I think of all the 'satsang' I gave in those early days to my nearest and dearest as well as complete strangers on trains. Maybe I've grown up a bit at last. Being a late developer means there's lots to look forward to.

Love from Tim

PS Any relation to Anna Livia (The River Liffey that runs thru Dublin)?
There was a local man down here in W Cork who told me that his grandmother was 'Descended from a mermaid'

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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 13:29:51 (EST)
From: Kelly
Email: karen@ringrose.org.uk
To: Livia Dowte
Subject: Re: ex-premie.org and 'that video'
Message:
Hi Livia,

Lovely name! I wrestled with that whole doubt thing throughout my premie career, and have since resolved to always leave room for doubt in my mind.

I have a copy of the Atlanta training video, but I don't live in England, I live in Wales! This video was the next to final straw for me and very instrumental in my exit. Some premie friends recorded it from a satellite broadcast and I copied that recording. During the first few weeks of my awakening from the cult trance last year I watched it often with a sort of horrified fascination, it served as a doubt eliminator. If ever I started to wonder whether my 'evil mind' was leading me astray...I watched it again. Someone has suggested, in a thread below...was it Disculta? the brilliant idea that we supply this video as an exiting tool! I have sent copies to a few people including Mike Dettmers in USA who couldn't view it because of course my copy is in PAL, but he could hear the goo's voice and that was bad enough for him!

I think maybe we should have a London Latvian video show...What say Marianne? but even so, I would be happy to send you and anyone else who wants one, a copy. (for a small fee! Thinks...maybe I can make my fortune!) ..Please do e-mail me about this.
All the very best to you,
Karen

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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 16:26:35 (EST)
From: magiclara
Email: None
To: Kelly
Subject: Re: ex-premie.org and 'that video'
Message:
Hi Kelly

I will e mail you re the vid. I think a Latvian get together is a marv idea. I saw the passages vid at Nottingam last year, when I was being sucked back in to the cult (only for the one night thankfully) It was shown after two days of mind numbingly tedious Wadahamar garbage. Compared to that and given the mindset I had at the time, passages seemed to be good. The other stuff was really really bad. I would like to see that one again especially with a load of ex premies and a gin and tonic.

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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 16:47:16 (EST)
From: Kelly
Email: karen@ringrose.org.uk
To: magiclara
Subject: Re: ex-premie.org and 'that video'
Message:
Hi magiclara!
The last time I attended a programme was Harrogate. I was appalled and well on my way out. This was the first 'Auto K' session and I realised then that it was all over!
Would love to watch any of these farces, or do I mean faeces? with you and other ex or post premies, especially with a gin and tonic in hand!
Karen
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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 16:54:53 (EST)
From: magiclara
Email: None
To:

Subject: Re: ex-premie.org and 'that video'
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 16:59:04 (EST)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: magiclara
Subject: Re: ex-premie.org and 'that video'
Message:
Wow, what a party! Who's bringing the pretzils??!!
But seriously, we must talk.
Kelly
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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 17:03:24 (EST)
From: magiclara
Email: None
To: Kelly
Subject: Re: ex-premie.org and 'that video'
Message:
Have e mailed to you. Yep we need to party. We will talk.Titter.
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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 10:49:42 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Livia Dowte
Subject: Re: ex-premie.org
Message:
The site appears to be down again. I've raised a ticket but I don't have any information as to the cause.

Regarding the videos, unless you have a player that handles NTSC (US standard) and PAL *European standard) you will need to get the videos converted.

John.

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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 13:08:10 (EST)
From: Mirror
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Re: ex-premie.org
Message:
John, couldn't you (or anyone) copy the site to one or more backup servers? Make it available through one or more alternate URL's?

Just wondering,
Mirror

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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 15:52:27 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Mirror
Subject: Re: ex-premie.org
Message:
Mirror,

This is a possibility, but the alternative sites (mirror sites) would have to have different domain names and ip addresses, so anyone looking for www.ex-premie.org would still get a not found message. I suppose one idea is for one site to have one page which simply has links to the other sites, and readers can choose which one to go to.

John.

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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 09:49:49 (EST)
From: Silvia
Email: None
To: Livia Dowte
Subject: welcome Livia
Message:
assuming you never posted before.

When did you leave the cult? Have you something to share with us?

Best ()) regards,

silvia

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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 17:58:31 (EST)
From: Livia Dowte
Email: None
To: Silvia
Subject: Re: welcome Livia
Message:
Hi Silvia, Tim G and others

Thanks for your welcome. Yes I have posted before but only a couple of times and only in the last few days. I've been reading EPO and Forum 7 for about 2 weeks now and like somebody above I'm soon to be ex-wife and ex-mum if I don't slow down a bit. But it's so compelling to read it all, and I'm someone who reads every last new blue post bar the 'nt's'. I think it just obsesses you when you first find it because there is just so much being said. I received Knowledge in 72 and practised pretty diligently for 10 years or so. Around 83 like many people it seems, I started to drift a bit, making new friends outside the premie world, and working in an interesting field at last - the arts. What a lift that was after years of useless jobs and spending any spare money on getting to festivals all over the world etc... But all this time from then till now I've been living in this weird limbo state, not really practising Knowledge at all but still feeling an unshakeable faith in Maharaji and all of it. Neither one thing nor the other and not a truly healthy place to be.

What had been bothering me for years was Maharaji's apparent contempt for any sort of accomplishment, as if the only thing that was worth doing was to devote one's life to him and Knowledge. Which gives you a weird feeling of guilt when you do anything else even when it feels right. Which puts you at cross-purposes with yourself... and all around you, you can't help seeing good people without Knowledge, leading good, ethical, creative, rich lives, and something just wasn't adding up. Especially when you look at the participating premies and they all seem somehow sad, lost and almost empty. Around where I live they do anyway.

But try to put any of this to a premie for a decent discussion - well, you might as well forget it. I tried a few times to express these feelings to what I felt were close friends and just got total incomprehension or naked hostility. And you couldn't talk about it to any non-premie, so you're left in this odd state of having absolutely NO ONE to talk to about a very real dilemma. My way of dealing with it was to push it to the back of my mind and just carry on in the hope that one day it would feel right to start participating again, or - something.

Until I started reading EPO. And then everything explodes in your head....I suppose where I am now is in the middle of the process of becoming an ex. I'm going through some odd feelings of panic, sadness, confusion of identity, embarrassment and even guilt at how I proselytised for years...and today for the first time, feelings of anger for wasted years.... I know you've all been through the same thing, and a lot of you without EPO and this forum for support, and I admire your courage through what must have been very lonely and painful times. I don't know if I could have done it, and I'm not through with the process yet as turbulent dreams every night testify.

It's ironic I know, but some of the posts here remind me almost of satsang in the early days - the outpourings of honest feelings and a wholehearted attempt to speak the truth and nothing but the truth. And when you compare what's said here to the brainwashed auto-speak and revisionism of premies today.....who would have ever thought it would end up like this?

I do feel that in the early days Maharaji was genuinely trying to spread what he felt was the Knowledge of God to a troubled world. (I may be conclusively proved wrong here too - (sigh!)) I was so sure that the enthusiasm and love we felt wasn't just the need for a personal experience but the will to help make the world a better and happier place. I know I felt a genuine love in those days and the premies, well, a lot of them anyway! were wonderful, and I love a lot of them still. But what has happened with EV since about 1983 has just looked and felt too strange. Maybe the rot set in when Maharaji for some unknown reason stopped premies from 'giving satang' at meetings, which I always felt was a big mistake. But of course you couldn't say anything to anyone because he didn't make mistakes...

Enough already. So much to say and not enough time to say it, and it's all being said every day here in any case!

A big heartfelt thanks again to all of you.

With love, Livia

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Date: Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 17:55:02 (EST)
From: Kelly
Email: karen@ringrose .org. uk
To: Livia Dowte
Subject: Re: welcome Livia
Message:
Livia,
That was a wonderful post, and expressed so clearly many of my own dilemmas when dealing with the goo's contradictions et al. His habit of pouring scorn upon anybody who had even read a book...something I'm sure he has never managed to do. Today I got a copy of Passages and am copying it for a few people. Do you want it? let me know.
Karen
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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 22:15:10 (EST)
From: Anandaji
Email: None
To: Livia Dowte
Subject: Re: welcome Livia
Message:
Livia
---

A hearty welcome. I just came upon EPO last month. My script reads almost exactly like yours: including the panic, identity issues, etc.
---
same for most everyone else here. That in itself means a lot to me in terms of community and healing possibilities. I am from the class of '73. I also agree that what I first found here had the pleasing sound of early satsang. Yeah! Satsang lives!

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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 21:52:56 (EST)
From: housemom
Email: None
To: Livia Dowte
Subject: Re: welcome Livia
Message:
Hi Livia and all,
I've just begun posting, though I've been away from goo for a long time, but it is so interesting to me what a HUGE charge I still have. Almost after every post I write, I think, 'was that okay to say? Did I offend anyone? Am I too angry/outspoken/offensive?' When I left, I completely disassociated myself from almost everyone and everything having to do with my past ashram/cult existence, and now I'm beginning to entertain two thoughts: Because there was such disapproval about moving away from the cult, I HAD to make a surgical cut, and two, I have post traumatic stress related to Rawat and the environment surrounding him. Interesting to discover after all this time.
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Date: Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 06:29:41 (EST)
From: magiclara
Email: None
To: housemom
Subject: Hello and welcome Housemum nt
Message:
t
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Date: Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 13:10:50 (EST)
From: housemom
Email: None
To: magiclara
Subject: thank u, great site!( nt)
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 20:00:09 (EST)
From: silvia
Email: None
To: Livia Dowte
Subject: Re: welcome Livia
Message:
But of course you couldn't say anything to anyone because he didn't make mistakes...

Thesecret maharaji. Yuck! How different all look from the 'outside'.
Thanks for writing. I left about two years a go and like you, I wanted ready it all. As you say, to be able to express yourself is such a good feeling, unlike the cult who lately nothing can be discussed openly. All revolves around devotion and yes, all the premies I know think he is the living lord. What about your premie friends?

Love,

silvia())

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Date: Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 06:16:32 (EST)
From: Livia Dowte
Email: None
To: silvia
Subject: premie friends
Message:
My premie friends definitely think he's the living lord, and to be honest I probably did too deep down until a couple of weeks ago. I tackled one friend a few months back about the revisionism. I said 'Come on, you KNOW he said he was the perfect master and that the perfect master was the lord in human form. You KNOW he did!!' and my friend's face went all twisted and weird as he tried to deny it. I couldn't believe it really. I mean, this friend used to be SUCH a devotee - he wrote songs with the word 'lord' in, and I was there with him when we all sang 'The lord of the universe has come to us this day' in front of Maharaji and I didn't see Maharaji saying 'Come now, come now, we mustn't go over the top here!'

I tried to tackle another friend about revisionism the other day and got a weird response, as if I was the one who must have been 'in my head' for ever interpreting things that way back then. But I'm sure deep down she still believes he's the lord, so there must be some mental gymnastics going on in her head for sure.

Another one, who is also one of my very closest friends, implied the same thing - that I'D had a need for certainties at the time, so believed he was the lord. But I REMEMBER this person giving satsang to aspirants and telling them that the lord was here in human form!!! He then went on to remind me of the magical time we'd had back in the beginning (true). His view that I was looking for negatives and that I couldn't handle changes of definition, and that I was risking throwing the baby out with the bathwater etc. So I guess he's living in the limbo state I was in, and is happy to stay there - well, that's up to him.

In each of these cases I encountered a very strong reaction. ('She's leaving room for doubt in her mind!!! AARGH!!!) I think I'd better leave them alone until they are ready to question things themselves. After all, this can cause a considerable amount of mental upheaval so it's not surprising that premies want to stay where they are - it's safer that way, for now anyway.

So yes, my premie friends all still believe he's the lord even if they don't say they do, because to them he's still perfect in everything he says and does.

With love
Livia

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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 19:25:15 (EST)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: Livia Dowte
Subject: Welcome, Livia!
Message:
lotsa luv from us, too.

Peace and lentils,

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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 18:11:28 (EST)
From: Disculta
Email: None
To: Livia Dowte
Subject: Re: welcome Livia
Message:
Welcome. I loved what you said.

This line caught my eye:

'I was so sure that the enthusiasm and love we felt wasn't just the need for a personal experience but the will to help make the world a better and happier place.'

It was. You are right. Many of us WERE in it out of full or partial desire to see the world a better and happier place as well as our navel-gazing, and if MJ wasn't, isn't, or was only partially sincere, it has NOTHING TO DO WITH US. That's his business and he is of course reaping whatever he has sown, and we can also reap the fruits of our own sincerity, and now we can use our energy more sensibly.

Just wanted to say this. We've discussed this point before on this forum (before you came) and many people felt it was important to 'reclaim' their own sincerity and not feel like they have been polluted by any of MJ or EV's agendas.

love ktd

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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 18:09:47 (EST)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: Livia Dowte
Subject: Re: welcome Livia****GREAT POST ***** must read
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 18:13:03 (EST)
From: Disculta
Email: None
To: Kelly
Subject: Hey Kelly, you're up late xx nt.
Message:

[ Page Link ]
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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 18:23:43 (EST)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: Re: Hey Kelly, you're up late xx nt.
Message:
Whadya mean? you're up early! Surely?!
Hey Disculta, I am once again reminded of my first postings here. You were nearly the first to respond.....I still use your phrases, because they can't be betterred! eg 'awakening from the cult trance' this is the way I describe it to everyone now, but it's your phrase!

Hey, how did you like your Latvian?..We will do it again here, for sure.

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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 18:35:26 (EST)
From: Disculta
Email: None
To: Kelly
Subject: It's 3 in the afternoon
Message:
Are we in different dimensions?

I just loved the video night and think this is the BEST technique for healthy exiting the 'cult trance.' Thanks for the thanks!

love ktd

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Date: Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 05:49:49 (EST)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: The other universe
Message:
I,ve just heard someone on the radio talking about parallel dimensions.
He claims that time can go backwards, no problem, and that the only reason our tea gets cold rather than hot is because the universe is expanding not contracting. Makes sense to me!
He's written a book called The other universe, but I didn't catch his name.
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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 09:32:46 (EST)
From: Bai Ji
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Is it just me or do you all
Message:
Read every nu blu message entered in the last 700 posted?
Just wondering.
And how do you select who to post the message to?
There seems to be no 'Recipient' box in the set up.
Bai the novitiate.
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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 17:06:31 (EST)
From: magiclara
Email: None
To: Bai Ji
Subject: Re: Is it just me or do you all
Message:
Hi Bai and welcome. I too read EPO whilst the pots piled up in the sink. I tend to read all the posts on the forum if I am reading at all. I think the people here are great. I have met 4 of them in real life and can strongly recommend it.
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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 16:55:55 (EST)
From: Sulla
Email: None
To: Bai Ji
Subject: I had to slow down before...
Message:
I love to read, I wish I could read them all, I try but there is not enough time. I had to slow down before I was declared ex-wife and ex-mother here. The first month after I discovered EPO I couldn't stop reading. I read every day, almost all day, I wanted to know all the facts, everything. I also read the journeys I found of some of the people posting, that made me laugh and cry, I loved them all. I felt they were sincere, upright, honest and very bright. They all help me a lot. THANKS!!
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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 18:22:59 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Sulla
Subject: About Reading EPO and the Forum...
Message:
Hi,

Reading EPO is the first step so you can get some reorientation out of the world of goomraji. It was for me, anyway.

I had a journey on the site a few years ago but had it removed because it revealed too much very personal information about me and others. But the journeys are helpful.

As far as the forum goes, I've reached a point where I can tell when two or three folks are having a conversation and I'll read the first post in the thread to see if it interests me. If not, I just continue to something that does interest me.

Remember, many ex-premies here have been posting consistantly for a long time and they may simply be having a conversation. Sometimes I can't even get through the REALLY long posts. I start to feel like, whoa, get to the point. Too many words.

Yet once you're here for a while you get to know all the people, their styles, etc.

The whole point is we are learning to be guilt-free. But, I do understand the feeling of wanting to devour everything all at once.

No rules here, except those put forth by the forum owner, Gerry.

Best to you,
Cynthia

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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 10:28:06 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Bai Ji
Subject: I think I did at first
Message:
When I first discovered the forum, I couldn't get enough of it! I wanted to read everything. Now, I suppose I'm better seasoned and frankly, I just don't have the time to read each post.
I have to skip posts that are too lenghty although I feel some remorse in that, the person who took the time to script such a reply or thread was giving alot of insight or information.
I am continually amazed by the talented writng of those that post here. It's downright intimidating to the dsylexic likes of me!
To select the recipient of someone you want to reply to just type in the message reply box 'your reply' with the originating 'quoted message' shown in text. No need to type in that person's name. Hotboards will do it for you automatically.
Welcome and I have to ask-are you pranam bai who used to clean Maharaji's house in the late 70's? If not, since you lived in Malibu, do you know who I am asking about and whatever became of her?

Take care,
Fondly,
Tonette

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Date: Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 00:23:44 (EST)
From: Bai Ji
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: Sorry Tonette, I am not Pranam Bai.
Message:
Thank you all for your responses and for being here.
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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 20:28:59 (EST)
From: Disculta
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: What became of Pranam Bai
Message:
I believe she Pranam Bai, now back to Kathy Sullivan I think, still lives in the LA area, and I believe she was pretty burned by some experience with MJ.

I heard this from someone who was close, but I'm out of touch with them.

Anyone know? She would be a brilliant poster.

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Date: Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 18:35:29 (EST)
From: dv
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: Re: What became of Pranam Bai
Message:
Here is her web site. she lists her favorite books of the month. I haven't tried it in a while,, don't know if it's still there: http://home.earthlink.net/~zbig/
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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 09:51:23 (EST)
From: no way
Email: None
To: Bai Ji
Subject: Re: Is it just me or do you all
Message:
I don't. I doubt many read all the posts. I just pick few when visiting....

I like your pots! Be well.

silvia

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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 14:40:08 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: no way
Subject: M in 1979
Message:

[ Graphic Link ]
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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 14:41:42 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: M in 1979 [nt]
Message:

[ Graphic Link ]
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Date: Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 00:30:39 (EST)
From: Bai Ji
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Eez not seem to be working(nt)
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 19:27:12 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: jhb@ex-premie.org
To: All
Subject: EPO Stats
Message:
In spite of server attacks, EPO pages read are still running at a little over 5000 a day. That's 5000 distinct pages, not files or graphics, but internet pages as we understand them.

Quite frankly, that's blowing my mind. Who is reading EPO? I don't think it's ex-premies. Sure we read the stuff there occasionally, but we only get hooked on reading when we're leaving the cult.

I also don't think it's diehard premies. They shy away from the site.

No, I think it's waivering premies exiting. I can't think of another explanation. Look at the numbers. I can't see a premie who reads more than 50 pages staying in he cult. That would mean up to 100 premies becoming exes every day. OK, I'm sure my interpretation of the numbers is wrong, but has anyone a different explanation that doesn't involve a continuing massive exodus?

John.

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Date: Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 08:20:20 (EST)
From: Sulla
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Re: EPO Stats
Message:
Hello,
But reading doesn't mean exiting. Anyway I think that after reading all that information it's difficult not to leave M.
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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 06:35:03 (EST)
From: Hi
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Re: EPO Stats
Message:
my new e-mail address is silvia_sommer@yahoo.com

Please let me know when the spanish forum is working again.Thanks.

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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 04:14:30 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Good Question
Message:
And interesting stats. 5000 pages a day is spectacular!
I have no idea either who's accessing EPO, so I won't speculate.

Can Roger give us any stats from his site? He hosts another site that has a wealth of information on it. It would be interesting to see what the traffic is and whether there is a correlation to what is happening with EPO.

Just curious. And thank you for all the work you do. I think Time Magazine should name you Man of the Year!

Fondly,
Tonette

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Date: Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 20:23:54 (EST)
From: such
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Re: EPO pages
Message:
John,

btw, hope you've updated the Pat Halley letters [or will asap].

Peace and lentils,

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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 02:22:32 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: such
Subject: Re: EPO pages
Message:
I promise I will post it, but I can't promise when, but hopefully soon. Things have been a bit hectic lately:-)

John

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Date: Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 19:38:28 (EST)
From: Suzie
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Re: EPO Stats
Message:
By 'pages' does that mean if someone goes to EPO, that's one page, an then if they click on, for example, the 14 points, that's another page, and then if they click on the 'ashram' article that's another page, for a total of 4 pages and that's happening 5000 times a day?

If that's true, I'm amazed.

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Date: Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 19:43:50 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Suzie
Subject: Re: EPO Stats
Message:
You got it exactly (except I only counted 3 pages unless you are returning to the home page after the 14 objections). The stats also include requests, which are way higher (22,000 per day), and include every graphic included in a page, such as a horizontal line, and the links section at the foot of many pages. Pages are pages, and the numbers are awesome.

John.

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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 14:21:48 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Forum Seven Stats
Message:
A couple of days ago we surpassed one million page views since August 2001.

Wonder how the captain's site's doin'? And that forum EnjoyingLife promised three years ago...

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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 14:54:59 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Re: Forum Seven Stats
Message:
Hi Gerry,

Gee, that's very impressive. I like your new message above. Is it new, or have I just not read it in a while.

I have to tell you that I recently read a different forum about a completely different subject and the forum owner who moderates it states simply that if you don't like my rules, create and pay for your own forum.

So I endorse your policies and thank you for all your work.

Love,
Cynthia

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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 15:50:32 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Cynthia, that last paragraph...
Message:
is new as of a few hours ago. Glad you noticed and thanks for your endorsement.
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Date: Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 16:01:29 (EST)
From: Disculta
Email: darlingwave@aol.com
To: All
Subject: The loneliness of leaving
Message:
I was just commenting to Marianne that being with ex-premies who are openly refuting the programming seems to fulfill an important need for me. It's good to have the online contact, but I must say, the couple of times I have actually MET with ex-premies have been extremely charged and powerful for me.

Looking back, I realize that I left in a rather lonely way. I was living in Miami, and the whole world seemed to be a premie world (early 80s). I went from the perception of seeing a lord to the perception of seeing an abuser rather quickly, and though many of my friends were drifting away through attraction to other things, the general attitude seemed to be a sort of benign 'live and let live.'

I do believe in the idea of 'live and let live,' but I've found that it works best if I am all there. I feel that when I left MJ, a few pieces of me were left dangling, unanswered, unresolved and unexpressed. I still got out and got on with my life like most other people who left at that time. But just as it is said that one has 75,000 hours of parental programming by the time one leaves home, I must have had close to that amount of programming by MJ. It took up a lot of my RAM, large number of bytes, know what I mean?

And it feels as though some of myself gets recovered -- reformatted! -- by sharing time with other people who are saying 'this is actually not true, and this is not okay,' back to our 'ex-Master's Voice.'

So again, I invite anyone who feels like it to get together with some of the other people on the forum who may live close to you, and laugh at a video together. Particularly if you left recently and have been enjoying the 'video era.'

love ktd

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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 23:26:18 (EST)
From: Anandaji
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: New kind of festival
Message:
Shortly after I began reading the neo-satsang here, I began envisioning a large festival sometime, with drums and flutes and dancing, just like in the old days, only without a LOTU...just with our own wonderful, liberated souls.
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Date: Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 03:33:56 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Anandaji
Subject: Yeah, we could meet in Kissimee
Message:
And take turns pulling each other around on a cart, in the mud! Procession style.

Just kidding, I couldn't resist.

Fondly,
Tonette

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Date: Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 15:55:47 (EST)
From: suchaBanana
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: did you say 'kissa me'??
Message:
after 30 years of 'virtual celibacy' [hahaha], I was starting to get EX-cited again! Now ah feel kinda like another ol geezer -- Bob Dole watching a Britney Spears vid [down, boy]. (ah almost forgot what that feels like -- at the festival, can we share one of those ashram ex-premie sista-brudda hugs, too?!)

sorry, that was just Mr. Mind speaking. [you must resist, you must resist, you must resist all temptation -- uh, time for another cold swami sannyasin shower.]

PS Speaking of Kissimmee, does anyone here remember a friend, Sharyn Thomas from Melbourne (and son Jessie)? I wonder how they're doing these days? I hope they are both well and happy - ex-premies!

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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 09:52:59 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: What a beautiful post!
Message:
Kinda like you Katie.

You really hit the nail on the head for me when you said:

I do believe in the idea of 'live and let live,' but I've found that it works best if I am all there. I feel that when I left MJ, a few pieces of me were left dangling, unanswered, unresolved and unexpressed. I still got out and got on with my life like most other people who left at that time. But just as it is said that one has 75,000 hours of parental programming by the time one leaves home, I must have had close to that amount of programming by MJ. It took up a lot of my RAM, large number of bytes, know what I mean

Yes, I know exactly what you mean. Although I would guesstimate my hours of programming were much less, since I was alot less involved than you. How many hours in a year? 365 days X 24 hours=8,760 hours. I was a premie for 5 plus years. Now, not all that time was spent living and trying to breathe knowledge(pun intended), but a large part of my thinking went to that end. So, 8,760 hrs X 5=43,800 hours. Wow! No wonder a large part of me was left unsure even after my rational mind told me M was a fraud! Even after I knew for a fact that the whole trip and it was a trip, was bullshit. Even after I left!
So, here I am, posting on this forum. Reading with fascination others take on what exactly happened to us and why. Why some people just cannot face up to facts. How we became total fools among seemingly quite intelligent people, Lord of the Universe? It's laughable now. But I wasn't laughing before EPO. I was confused and EMBARRASSED! Kissing the feet of someone, anyone and especially the likes of Maharaji? I could never talk about it before. Didn't understand the deep and damaging affects of being duped by a cult! I could not figure out what in the fucking hell had happened to me. How could I be so stupid!
But, I do now and Katie your post cuts to the chase in many ways.
I am a humanitarian by nature. A real sap in other words. I don't always like people but we do need each other. Sometimes I think it's amazing how many faults each of us has and can still function. And I know that by posting and expressing ourselves here helps many people. I'm all for that. And this forum has helped me and the one I love most dearly(well, most of the time anyway) my husband.
Even Maharaji is forgiveable if only he would step forward and make real ammends. I'm not talking just words. A tangable act. Something measurable. He could start with premie children and work his way up.
The most recent posts about videos made me reflect. I remember when my husband became an ex. After awhile, I asked him if now would not be a good time to clean off the bookshelves. We had quite a few videos here, two brown paper garbage bags full. Geez, maybe 40 or more. Yes, at times I was subjected to their viewing but that is another story. Anyway, we put them in garbage bags, so what to do with them? I wanted to sell them on ebay. I figured maybe we could get some cult head to pay us perhaps 75 dollars but frankly, that seemed like too much trouble. So what to do? It so happened at the time a premie we were acquainted with had surgery for some sort of cancer. I thought hell, give them to her. But you know that never happened. Supposedly the videos got ruined by moisture and my husband threw them out! And I had not one pange of remorse, felt no attachment or loss. I breathed a sigh of relief! Good riddance. Conversely, in 1986 when we moved from a much larger house to where we are now, I threw out all our divine times and such, the magazines. A whole trash can full! I fretted over that decision for years. I had exited true enough, I was through but was I really out of it? The cult still had a bit of a hold on me that's for sure. Especially for me to mourn the loss and my decision to clean house. I guess I wasn't really able to 'clean house' until I found EPO and came here.
I want to thank everyone here. And especially you, Katie for a post that cemented, for me, my understanding of why I am posting here and what it means to truly leave.

Fondly,
Tonette

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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 00:45:00 (EST)
From: Bai Ji
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: Re: The loneliness of leaving
Message:
Dear Katie, Are you Katie ex Baier of John & Katie from Broadbeach Rd in Malibu?
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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 01:12:57 (EST)
From: Disculta
Email: None
To: Bai Ji
Subject: To Bai Ji
Message:
Yes I am! That house burned down in the fire that didn't burn MJ's house!

Now Katie Darling

Who are you, Bai ji?

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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 01:17:45 (EST)
From: Bai Ji
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: Re: To Bai Ji
Message:
Dear Katie, You probably won't remember me. You and John were so kind way back then I was very young and a Long way from Home. I was only last week trying to find that Gardenia Essence you wore. I think it was Pret a Porter?. They don't have it here.
I refuse to let M spoil my love of Gardenias, Tuberose and Grey Flannel(Violets)
What a Journey!
Love,Love,Love to you!
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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 01:20:29 (EST)
From: Disculta
Email: None
To: Bai Ji
Subject: Gardenia
Message:
I know what you mean about not lettting him take over gardenias, any more than my breath!

I have found other good gardenia essences in health food stores and still love it occasionally.

love kt

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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 01:23:21 (EST)
From: Bai Ji
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: Re: YAY for us! (nt)
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 01:16:36 (EST)
From: Disculta
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: PS To Bai Ji
Message:
If you want to stay anon, you can e-mail me at darlingwave@aol.com. Love to know which 'Baiji' you are

love ktd

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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 01:22:14 (EST)
From: Bai Ji
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: Re: Got It!
Message:
Shall write you soon, I think I have run out of net time. Put another penny in the slot.
x
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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 01:28:44 (EST)
From: Bai Ji
Email: None
To: Bai Ji
Subject: Re: PS.Got It!
Message:
I was saddest at the thought of losing all of the connections that AI held dear in my life. First of all GOD. But he isn't.
Then the true Human bonds of each life connection over the past 3 x decades.
And here you are, a Blast from the Past, I feel an electric excitement that augers well for my future.
Maybe I don't get to die here after all.
Thank You Katie Darling Dearest!!
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Date: Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 23:41:30 (EST)
From: st.john
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: Re: The loneliness of leaving
Message:
i have become a jesus freak
after all...
he's not here..it's ez...
bon voyage mes amies.
and as 4 you sara...email me a pic.plz
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Date: Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 21:37:57 (EST)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: Re: The loneliness of leaving
Message:
I'm pretty damned lonely these days. I don't know the premies or the ex's in my area and I didn't know them before i left. I haven't reall known where the 'community is' since i left denver in 93, and i can't say as i wuld have knwn how to find the whole group even then.

I'm gettin zero e mail these days. nobody's writing to me. if anybody out there feels chatty and in the mood for communication, you can write to me and just tell me what you did today, or thought about today, or felt today, or just any old thing. it would make me feel like i at least had friends i talked to.

I'm at
mensabrains@webtv.net

it doesnt have to be maharaji related. tell me what you do all day and describe where you live if you want to. just something.

lonely, hell yes.

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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 04:22:33 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: I mailed you....
Message:
But you need flesh and blood! And there are far more potential friends out there than ex's and premies.
I think such had some good suggestions.
Remember,and I apologize for this sickening cliche, no man is an island.
Take care Janet

Tonette

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Date: Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 22:01:01 (EST)
From: such
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: I thought about you today
Message:
Hi Janet,

hope you can get outside and enjoy the California climate, walk on the beach, tend or visit a pretty garden. Gardening is great -- planting and nurturing trees, bushes, hostas, flowers, etc. that grow and bloom. So is creative writing, playing a musical instrument, drawing, painting, etc. astronomy is cool, and I find that reading a really good non-fiction book is always nice.

it's very cold here outside my lil cave. i wish the hot water worked, too. whatever...

when solitude gets boring, sometimes I just turn on a television, or perhaps go grocery shopping and talk to the nice people. btw, volunteering at shelters, libraries or museums can be social and a lil fulfilling, too. also, my older sister is a doctor who is manic depressive - she keeps 2 cat companions for company.

gotta go now.

peace and lentils,

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Date: Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 21:23:23 (EST)
From: Joy
Email: joyfenwick@onetel.net.uk
To: Disculta
Subject: I was so lucky
Message:
To have Joe all to myself exclusively as deprogramming buddy for almost ten years during and after leaving the cult. He was an invaluable friend to me and I'm so glad he's so prominent here on EPO to help anybody else through their exiting process (hey, I don't mind sharing him!). I can understand how without a friend to go through it with, leaving the cult could be a very lonely and in many ways terrifying process.

I hope people who are thinking of or are in the process of leaving Maharaji as a teacher/master will make full use of the people on this site, and e-mail and contact any of us for moral support if necessary. Please see my e-mail above, if anybody would like one-to-one chat about it all.

And I would just like to acknowledge your contributions to the Forum, also, Disculta, your posts are amazing and insightful and I'm sure help many people through the difficult phases.

Love,
Joy

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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 13:33:54 (EST)
From: Francesca :~)
Email: None
To: Joy
Subject: Joy to the World!
Message:
Hello JOY,

I've been meaning to give you an e-mail jingle! I'll take this opportunity and get to you with the silly personal stuff later (nothing hot, just the usual)!

Your input has also been very beneficial here, and I was lucky to have you for an ashram roomie when we both were doubting everything. You were a few steps ahead of me on that score!

With love,

Francesca

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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 20:52:06 (EST)
From: Joy
Email: None
To: Francesca :~)
Subject: Fran to the World! (ot)
Message:
Thanks for the kind words, Francesca.

I don't feel like I've contributed very much to this Forum since I have such a slow computer and it just takes up too much of my time; you have posted much more than me (and brilliant posts too, I might add), and Joe is just stellar, of course. I have one other friend who regularly reads/posts here who has mentioned how much they like your posts, too. And you were certainly the only person I could relate to in that SF sisters ashram (and Joe was the only one in the brothers' that seemed at all normal to me as well -- isn't it odd how we're all ex's now and posting here?) -- remember the times we went down to Haight St. to the sweet shops and over to Patrick's just to escape the repressive heaviness of that place?

E-mail any time, always good to hear from you,
Love,
Joy

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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 21:05:52 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Joy
Subject: All You Knead in the Haight
Message:
Do you and Francesca remember that restaurant 'All You Knead' in the Haight? That was such a great place, and Kevin and I went by there one Sunday and it's still there! I was amazed. Such great food and so comfortable.

Do you remember how we used to sneak out of the ashram and go to that dessert place also on Haight called 'Kiss My Sweet?' It's no longer a dessert place and is now more of a coffee shop.

The Haight is getting unrecognizable. It's all yuppified with trendy restaurants and boutique clothing stores for women. There are a few things from the past hanging around if you look, however.

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Date: Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 01:38:05 (EST)
From: Joy
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Yeah, I went there last year (ot)
Message:
I went in there and had tea last year when I was in San Francisco, it's the same as ever. Such a cool cafe. Kiss My Sweet was another favorite ashram escape place, one which I relished all the more since I heard Jerry Garcia used to frequent it also. So there are a few good memories from the SF ashram days (but just a few). Pity about the Haight, though, it still felt reasonably hippi-fied when we walked it last year. Amoeba Records is still there and quite a few head shops, though most of them are trendy and tourist-y. The original atmosphere of that place, back in the 1960s, will never be beat. All things must pass, but instead of passing completely they just seem to become mockeries of their former selves, vaguely resembing what they once were, but not quite.

It's late and I'm rambling and horribly OT, so will disappear for now. Love to all.

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Date: Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 12:31:16 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Joy
Subject: Amoeba Records
Message:
What a great place. It's huge and you can get almost any CD ever made there, used and at a big discount. I have to be careful, because I can spend an entire afternoon there. There is another Amoeba in Berkeley, but it isn't as good.

It's true what you said about things becoming mockeries of their former selves. There is something about Americans that they want to make theme parks out of everything, Las Vegas and its replications of New York, Italy, ancient Egypt, etc., being the most extreme example.

Enrico Eco has an essay out about this that is excellent. He spent a year going to all the 'replications' in the USA and had great insights on it.

I hope the same isn't happening to the Haight. Part of it is just the astronomical value of property in San Francisco. The reason the Haight was the Haight was cheap housing, the same reason the Castro became the Castro. But that's all over now. The house next to mine recently sold for $1 million, and it wasn't even all that nice.

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Date: Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 00:34:40 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Thanks to Francesca, Joy and Joe
Message:
Francesca and I emailed before posting here. Then Joy and I hooked up by email and she told me about you being here, Joe. Then you and Kev came to dinner and....well, all that stuff helped me a lot in my first few months of posting here - knowing that there were people I had known since 20 years ago. I just wish all new exes could have it as easy as I did. Thanks to Chuck and Andy too, of course.

The Haight - I lived there for 5 years and almost became a Republican in reaction to the bums but it was very instrumental in disillusioning me about the anal-rententive silliness of the cult. The freedom - well, anarchy really - opened my eyes as did the late night satsangs over delicious calzone at All You Knead and chocolate heart attacks at Kiss My Sweet and the doobies in my basement!

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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 13:17:05 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Joy
Subject: Thank you Joy
Message:
Joy, you are a sweetheart, but I think I relied on you at least as much as you relied on me. I think we saw every French or German film produced after 1980. It was all very therapeutic. That, and all the good celtic and folk music concerts we went to. Sorry I wasn't a better companion to Grateful Dead concerts. No matter how hard I tried, I couldn't relate. :)
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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 20:45:26 (EST)
From: Joy
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: French/German film cult leaving therapy
Message:
Yea, those French/German films (and a few Bergman/Woody Allen ones) really helped reintegrate me into the real world of emotions after 10 years of focusing on the goo (love that term, housemother!). And I remember our stumbling around trying to find appropriate therapy and ex-cult member groups, which even for the short time we attended, were a big help back then, in lieu of EPO and the Forum.

Sorry about subjecting you to the Grateful Dead, but nobody's perfect, I guess--at least all the Mary Black, Nanci Griffith and Dougie MacLean gigs made up for it! Give me a ring soon, okay? Stuff to discuss . . .

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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 21:00:45 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: kevjo@mindspring.com
To: Joy
Subject: Re: French/German film cult leaving therapy
Message:
Yes, you introduced me to Mary, who introduced us to Nanci, because she sang 'Once in a Very Blue Moon' and the Great American Music Hall. Amazing you could go see those performers for about $10 and just sit in the front row at a table. Those were fun. Now both Mary and Nancy sell out large halls. I have all Dougie's albums and just saw him at the Freight and Salvage, which is still pretty intimate. He also performed at this cool Presbyterian Church in Berkeley a while back.

Please email me your phone number, as I seem to have misplaced it. I'll call you, I guess in the morning, as you are now long asleep as you should be.

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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 12:46:12 (EST)
From: Joy
Email: None
To: Joy
Subject: Thank you Joy
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 18:24:17 (EST)
From: Mercedes
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: Re: The loneliness of leaving
Message:
Hi Darling,
I totally agree with you, the few times I've been able to either talk on the phone or get together with the local exes it's been very affirming and good.
Also I have dear friends who were never involved and support me in my decission of not being involved in a cult. Yes, talking about it and reaffirming that it is a cult and a very incidious one is good for the soul.
We feel alone and betrayed, at least that is how I felt when I got out and realized what a facade this really is. It almost killed me but it didn't and I am a very grateful human being nowadays.
Love to you,
Mercedes
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Date: Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 17:21:42 (EST)
From: ExP
Email: ex_premie@yahoo.com
To: Disculta
Subject: Love to meet you Katie but ...
Message:
you are in the Bay area - I am 13 hours ahead of you ..

Shame ...

However I do have a good ole' belly full of lafs when I watch the EV 'programming' (channel 1382 on my digital receiver). Thank god I have a free for life Virus Alert ...

Ho hum, tiddly poo, onwards and upwards ....

love
ExP

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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 21:09:46 (EST)
From: Greenwich
Email: None
To: ExP
Subject: ExP, I think only 8 hours. (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 15:15:02 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: kevjo@mindspring.com
To: All
Subject: Tim Gallwey is a Liar
Message:
As Disculta mentioned, the last unidentified person in the video Passages -- A Master's Journey was Tim Gallway. Disculta identified him right away, and when she did, I saw it too.

I guess I didn't recognize him before, because he's obviously a lot older, has lost much of his hair and what he hasn't lost is gray, etc.

Anyway, he is by far the worst liar and most offensive speaker in the video from the standpoint of ex-premies, especially ex-ashram premies. For most of the other speakers, I think it might be true that their quotes were taken out of context, and I am presently trying to discuss that with Linda Pascotto, because I think it might be true in her case, and she just might be a little concerned that Visions twisted her comments to imply something she didn't intend.

But regarding Gallway, that isn't the case. Either because he was told to say it, or because he actually believes it, he was the one they used to support the theory that the cult has been putting out for some time, that many premies left Maharaji because they were more interested in the Hindu rituals/traditions than the actual experience of knowledge.

The theory from the narrator and from Gallway is that Maharaji encountered this really big problem at some point, and that was to break away his mission from the Indian traditions. The only examples given are saris:) and the ashram. We have talked about the ridiculous sari example.

But Gallway says that some premies were more interested in the 'Maharaji Religion' than the actual practice or experience, and because Maharaji got rid of the 'religion' part of it, I guess when they got rid of the saris:), the word 'guru,' and the ashrams, they left, because they hadn't really connected with the true experience of their 'heart.' Since they failed to have the real experience of their heart, they got more into the Indian traditions, and not what K was really about -- which is revisionist, dishonest crap, obviously.

As Disculta said, in the video Gallway is almost hyperactive when he talks about this, with really jerky, nervous hand movements, and he kind of squirmed when he said it.

So, I would like to transcribe Gallway's comments, and respond to them and include anyone else's comments who wants to make them. I hope it could go on EPO, to make it clear that ex-premies are not going to stand by and let people like Gallway engage in revisionist lies which are insulting to those of us who really did do what M told us to do, did diligently practice, and didn't give a shit about the 'Indian traditions.' We could also use Gallway as a means to respond to the cult's excuse for why so many people have left what is supposed to be such a simple and wonderful experience, following Maharaji.

I would also like to include anything else on Gallway that might be appropriate. One is that according to Abi, Gallway's Gold Amex card was used to fly Abi to Brisbane so she could be further abused by Valerio and the cult's lawyer regarding the Jagdeo situation. Gallway's involvement in that particular scandal might also be mentioned.

Can anyone give me any history on Gallway and Maharaji? I know he did the Inner Game stuff, and was often in the Maharaji inner circle. I assume he also donates quite a bit of money, sits in the front row, is at the residence a lot, etc. I also remember that they sometimes hocked his books at cult festivals in the 70s and 80s. Since he was mostly in Malibu, any my cult days did not bring me to Southern California, I didn't know him personally.

How early did Gallway become a premie? Any info about his involvement, other than it appears he had some kind of breakdown at that festival in the Kissimee swamp?

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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 14:16:37 (EST)
From: C
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Tim Gallwey is a Liar [nt]
Message:

[ Graphic Link ]
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Date: Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 02:41:44 (EST)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: C
Subject: Re: Tim Gallwey is a Liar
Message:
So that what the man who paid for my ticket to Brisbane for that traumatic meeting with Valerio looks like...
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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 14:19:13 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: C
Subject: Picture of Gallwey (above)
Message:
Above is a picture of Tim Gallwey as he looks these days, and sort of how he looks, as he lies through his teeth in the most self-righteous, condescending, fashion in the Passages -- A Master's Journey video.
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Date: Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 22:55:57 (EST)
From: Inside Edition
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Tim Gallway is also a facilitator
Message:
Joe,
Tim Gallway also served as a facilitator (along with Jean-Marie Bonthous) during Valerio Pascotto's secret training sessions with Rawat. You pretty much have to be willing to say or do (and believe!)just about anything to stay in that inner circle.
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Date: Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 02:44:47 (EST)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: Inside Edition
Subject: Re: Tim Gallway is also a facilitator
Message:
Funny, just remembered something Valerio Pascotto said to me. I asked him to pass a message on to M and he smiled humbly and said he just didn't have that much access to M. Do you think he was lying?
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Date: Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 14:41:21 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Pack of Liars...
Message:
Hi Abi,

I have come to see that anyone that close to maharaji are nothing but liars and thieves of lives.

Hope you are well,
Love,
Cynthia

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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 03:57:43 (EST)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: Inside Edition
Subject: The Proper Role of Facilitators
Message:
To whom it may concern:

I was professionally trained in facilitating groups and public meetings, and I constructively facilitated regular, televised public meetings dealing with numerous controversial issues for several years, without incident, rancor, or inappropriate behaviors.

Accordingly, I can tell you from informed experience that the so-called 'facilitating' engaged in by maha's unethical subordinates [which I witnessed] is not facilitating at all -- but rather top-down abusive, coercive manipulation, driven by hidden cult agendas unknown to the participants.

A true facilitator has 4 functions:Specific Behaviors

1. Presenting:
-providing information,
-having everything needing to be remembered visualized,
i.e.charts/handouts etc.
-clarifying why information is important, and its source[s]

2. Clarifying the Task - Making Purposes Clear
-defining your role - focus on process, NON-participant in
content
-ensuring the rationale for the task is clear - group purpose
-clearly identifying end-product or results
-explaining any end-reporting to be done and to whom
i.e. reports, recommendations, listing, pros/cons

3. Monitoring and Facilitating Group Process
-extablishing ground rules - using flip charts
-describing the process for accomplishing the task, or
preferably having the group determine the process
-using questions to encourage participation
-reporting your observations on what you believe is happening
aka 'perception checking'
-using relay and reverse questions to facilitate discussion and
deal with disagreement
clarifying areas of confusion, and keep the group on track
providing reasonable time cues - r.e time used/remaining for
task completion

4. Managing the Reporting
-determining how material will be recorded during the
discussion
-be sure to have group agreement with whatever is recorded,
edited, or written up
-reviewing final decisions, conclusions, questions, and
follow-up actions before ending session

[Based upon Margoles and Bell, Instructing for Results, and Trost, Facilitation Skills]

From extensive research and studies, our reports have found what people like and/or dislike about meetings and facilitation:

Like: -organized parameters for process and personal/group conduct
[blatantly violated by maha's facilitators]
-have background info in advance
-clear agenda [violated]
-fair, impartial facilitator [violated]
-stay on track/come back on track [violated]
-feel opinion valued [violated]
- facilitator acknowledges don't know, plans follow-up
[violated]
- calm/humor/funny, not tense [violated]
- full group participation [some violations]

what people Hate about meetings and improper/incompetent facilitation:
- dominating the meeting [violated]
- not clear agenda, publicized in advance [violated]
- redundancy - hearing the same thing over and over [violated]
- not everyone participating [violated]
- no closure - no follow-up [follow-up violated]
- necessary information not available [violated]
- personalizing issue(s) - attack persons and NOT the topic
[blatant violations]
- goals not realistic [obvious violations]
- not sticking to Reasonable time limits [violated,manipulated]

Dysfunctional (Self-Oriented) Roles
- attacker: deflates, puts down, aggressive [blatant in EV]
- blocker: negative, and resistant [blatant]
- recognition-seeker [blatant]
- self-confessor [blatant]
- goof off
- dominator [blatant]
- withdrawer [blatant]
- avoider [blatant]
- nit-picker [blatant]

Facilitator Skills: 6 Group Process Techniques
- Contracting - getting group to agree on some kind of ground
rules and appropriate behavior, process, and decision-making
and posting the agreed ground rules
[all blatantly violated]
- Polling (non-binding) taking group pulse, with options
[nope]
- Brainstorming, without criticizing [violated]
- Nominal Group Process 'round-robin', to increase participation
- Force Field Analysis: analyzes forces driving/restraining
change (i.e. For/Against ; Problem/Goal)
- Gantt Charting (task chart timeline), use consensus when
questions about sequence arise [violated]

In my professional opinion, the maha cult's coordinated abusive and degrading trainings, seminars, and conferences are NOT 'facilitated' meetings, but more closely approximate: EST, interrogation, coercion, brain-washing, deprivation, emotional and psychological torture, the worst excesses of insidious Scientology-type monitoring and personal information gathering, alienation of individuals, recrimination, and the blatant invasion of personal boundaries, civility and humanity.

I regard these cult conferences to be insidious, abusive, unethical, unhealthy and immoral.

sincerely,

swami j. suchabanana

P.S. The very notion of Prem Rawat involved whatsoever in any legitimate altruistic training of facilitators is absolutely ludicrous -- and automatically suspect. Ditto for any of his so-called appointed instructors, or other cult operatives. A facilitator should be impartial -- and preferably independent of the group. However, that is impossible, when the so-called "facilitators" themselves are cult officials obeying Prem Rawat and his cult's directives. Beware!!

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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 16:32:02 (EST)
From: Toejamanand
Email: None
To: suchabanana
Subject: Re: The Proper Role of Facilitators
Message:
Swamiji,
I want to be a facile idiot too. Could you please initiate me?
Prostrations at da smelly feet.
Smelly Kelly
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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 19:15:11 (EST)
From: such
Email: None
To: Toejamanand
Subject: uh, this is da antidote
Message:
ma dear Toejamanandji,

we awweddy been facilidioted in da cult. so, we are reversing da lobotomy and da accumulated samsaras! you don't Really wanna be facilidioted again!!!

Kelly, can you believe it? Now they've literally got to systematically brainwash people on How to program other people, How to keep them in line with p.c. cult-think, How to talk to people about McKnowledge, and How NOT to talk to people about McKnowledge -- and da impoifect massa -- and Elan Vital/Seva Corp., aka McYoga-Enron Inc.

like, feudal rugus and their demons definitely don't want freedom of speech [or the press, i.e. internet] for anybody Else. The truth is popping their humungous evil piggy ego zits!

you know, any premie spontaneity died a long long time ago. Now, it's all darkly contrived, spin-doctored control freakdom and dose famous bull elephant ladus.

speaking of feet - got to go and take da chai off da fire, before indulging in my late-night [early morning] meditation.

Blessings to all the ex-premies!

Peas and lentils,

da lil swami

PS I got socks now -- someone actually sent me 4 pairs for Xmas! Next, maybe some hot running water would be nice - but I wouldn't want to indulge my worldly desires, after all... hehehe [besides, it always reminds me of da cold showers for da bros at da rugu's Millenium '73 piss plant (er, Peace Plant)]

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Date: Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 08:03:52 (EST)
From: Toejamamanand
Email: None
To: such
Subject: you are suchahilarious lil swami
Message:
Glad to hear you got some socks..maybe some rich devotee could buy you some sandals for your birthday? When is it by the way?
I also stayed at the piss plant for Millenium, but I don't remember taking a shower,its against our religion. Just getting sick to death of those peanut butter and smelly jelly sandwiches. yuk!
Thanks for so many brilliant posts lately. McKnowledge! Ilove it.
Smelly Kelly
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Date: Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 15:10:11 (EST)
From: such
Email: None
To: Toejamamanand
Subject: to find the answer:
Message:
hint: same b'day as John Coltrane, Ray Charles, Walter Lippman, Bruce Springsteen, Julio Iglesias, and Armand Hippolyte Louis Fizeau...

Ok, contestant #3, name that day:____________ tick tock tick tock tick tock... buzz! hohoho

PS yeah, the sandwiches sucked. remember the granola with yogurt?

Were you one of the angels in the Divine Choir, too?!

you gals were lucky -- at least you got to sleep in actual rooms.

We bros slept on the concrete floor of the garage [with the fire ants] of that old Coca Cola factory. There must have been millions of gallons of caramel syrup that went down the drains and soaked into the earth over the years there. Ouch! [just recalling all the bites, before we fumigated the place.] And remember the barbed wire fence, surrounding the compound? The Peace Plant looked like a concentration camp. Meanwhile, blocks away -- the Holy Family had their nice individual homes, cars, premie slave domestic servants, chauffeurs, and bodyguards. And when it was hot and humid in Houston, Bubblegumji had the gall to tell us that spending 25 cents for an ice cream cone at Baskin-Robbins was 'basking in our desires and robbing Guru Maharaj ji.'

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Date: Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 17:42:19 (EST)
From: Contestant no.3
Email: None
To: such
Subject: I timed out!
Message:
That's some list. I've got Percy Byshe Shelley, The Queen Mother and Terry Wogan.
I love the Basking and Robbings thing. I was not a member of the Divine choir...No Siree! I was a groin kickin' fully trained, uniform wearing riot squad soldier of the World Peace Corps! SIR! Trouble is our name, ushering is our game!
I didn't get a room, I also slept on the concrete factory floor. But my most abiding memory was the sound of American trains. Something I had only heard in movies...so evocative...so romantic! What a desperately sad premie I was! Still, that was the dawning of the Golden Age of truth, Satyuga, so I mustn't grumble.
salutations at the cabbage feet.
Toejamanand
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Date: Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 20:03:01 (EST)
From: such
Email: None
To: Contestant no.3
Subject: ok, da answer:
Message:
A: Fall Equinox - was born exactly on the cusp at dawn, right near the 0 degree Greenwich line circa Cambridge Univ., where we lived while my father was finishing his law degree. (His legal education had been interrupted after he enlisted to engage in the Battle of Britain, as a fighter pilot for the Royal Navy).

hey, I was WPC for a spell, too! we wuz kung-fu fighting, etc. (Royal Oaks WPC ashram - which used to be a brothel before that; drunk former customers would pound on the day in the middle of the night - hahaha)

btw, I'll trade you Springsteen + Iglesias for Shelley!

Peas and lentils,

PS some sandals would be great - if they are not leather, or if they have been certified as having come from a water buffalo or cow that died of natural causes.

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Date: Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 17:24:56 (EST)
From: Contestant no.3
Email: None
To: such
Subject: I timed out!
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 11:35:24 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: suchabanana
Subject: Swami, thanks for that.
Message:
That was excellent material and I agree 100% with you conclusion. It's so obvious. It's painful to think of the (for the most part) honest and sincere premies being pummelled mercilessly by this awful stuff. I recall someone's (McDuck?) telling of all the crying and freaking out that went on. This is blatant cruelty. Rawat is a sadist.

On another vein, I couldn't help but consider this forum in light of the process. While far from perfect, we are really pretty functional, for the most part.

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Date: Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 21:15:47 (EST)
From: Joy
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: I remember satsang at his house in Malibu
Message:
I didn't know him personally but when I lived in the ashram in Malibu for six months I used to attend satsang at his house every Monday night (I think it was Mondays). He has quite a large, glitzy Malibu house, and it was always packed. He and Sally were quite the syrupy devotees, while still maintaining their wealthy status. I don't know much else about him.

Good luck busting him if he's a guru revisionist apologist! Hopefully some of the L.A. ex's might know more (where's LA Ex these days?).

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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 16:21:50 (EST)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Joy
Subject: Gallwey
Message:
Gallwey, last I heard a few years ago, had bought the house next to maharaji's on the malibu hill, at maharaji's request....

It would really be interesting to invite Tim over to epo to discuss his take on what he said in the atlanta training video....

I think it might make a god section on epo, to compare some of his statements with m's statements from the past, and show his readers how adept Mr. Gallwey really is at revising history.

Make you wonder how much of what he ever wrote in his 'inner' book series, he ever experienced.....

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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 16:55:07 (EST)
From: Kelly
Email: karen@ringrose.org.uk
To: la-ex
Subject: Hello La-ex!
Message:
Hey La-ex,
I have not been here much lately, but everytime I visit I check to see if you are here. I remember so well my first posts here and your intelligent, perceptive and helpful replies. Thanks so much and good to see you here again.
Kelly
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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 00:03:01 (EST)
From: Bai Ji
Email: None
To: Joy
Subject: Re: I remember satsang at his house in Malibu
Message:
Yeah, Portshead Rd Malibu I think.
Randy Prouty used to come and urge all the Non-Residents to go home as the Malibu Who's who were getting upset about all the 'Unwashed Masses' camping on their manicured doorstep.
Sally and Tim had that wonderful Rainforest Mural on the wall.

Oh and an earlier post mentioned Bob Garrett. Yes he was a Divine Pilot for m. Lived on Bluewater Rd, malibu if my memory serves.
The Quickening approaches!

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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 00:37:36 (EST)
From: Marianne
Email: MarianneDB@aol.com
To: Bai Ji
Subject: Hello Bai Ji
Message:
Hi Bai Ji. Do you know where Bob is today? He was an old and dear friend of mine.

Marianne

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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 00:57:17 (EST)
From: Bai Ji
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Re: Hello Bai Ji
Message:
Hi Amazon Woman.... No I don't know where he is today. I knew Bob from Malibu back in '76. He and Bill and Linda Bach were M's Pilot friends.
Along with Shelley and Garnett DuPuis, Joan Daumit, Tim & Sally Gallwey, Richard Grossberg, Ron & Linda Kasden,Jan & Bruce Keenan,Alex& Zoe Langley,Joel&Helene Laskin,Mona&Michael,Steve&Annie Oakley,Nicola Oliver,Regis Possimo,Guy Rollins,Buzz& Cathy Short, Lemon & Kelly Alan&Carole Thomas, Barb Taylor,Annie Vierra,Marc Weiner,Bob & Lyn Celan, Paul & Randy Barringer, Doc & Deb Dougherty.
Any Names ring a bell?
Sorry I'm not current.
Great to hear from you though!
Much Love.
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Date: Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 00:47:40 (EST)
From: Pullaver
Email: pullaver@yahoo.ca
To: Bai Ji
Subject: Garnet and Shelley
Message:
Hello Bai-Ji. Noticed you mentioned Shelley and Garnett Dupuis. Would you have any updated info about them - whether they are still premies, still together, still in m's circle, etc. Please e-mail me at pullaver@yahoo.ca. Thanks.
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Date: Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 11:48:13 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Pullaver
Subject: Garnet? The Gentleman's Gentleman?
Message:
I've only got a moment here but Garnet was an integral part of my premie tour. I'm from Windsor, Ontario originally, like both Garnet and Shelly, and we got to know each other a bit in the 70's. He travelled as Mahatma Tejeshwaranand's spiritual valet (what else do you call it?) in '74 and was in Vancouver, giving satsang every night before Mahatma Ji before his star was eclipsed by Idene, the doctor's wife, who Tej seduced along with the rest of his harem there. Tej convinced her she'd 'realized Knowledge' and she started giving the ol' 'I-see-Guru-Maharaji-Ji-Everywhere' satsang. We were all so blown out but probably would have been even more so had we known that Tej had turned his own private ashram next door into a virtual love nest with both local and imported 'sisters'.

Anyway, Garnet was being sent back to Canada, then, for immigration reasons. Toronto (HQ) didn't know what to do with him, his haughty airs being so foreign to the nice-guy / shlub Canadian form of premie humility. So they sent him to Regina, Sasketchewan, in the middle of nowhere, to act as CC before Amherst. As I'd been assigned the service of looking after Garnet in Vancouver, ironing his shirts and stuff before I went off to work (and he sat around eating grapes) and was thus a bit of a Gentleman's Gentleman's Gentleman, he asked for me to be shipped there too and I was. So we became something akin to friends in Regina.

Years later we went for lunch in Santa Monica at McGinty's Irish Pub. His arrogance was so amazingly thick and undeserved at the time, I almost broke out laughing. This was the late eighties and as I tried to discuss M he'd have no part of it. There are more stories but I'm late for court.

Email me, Pull, it'd be fun to say hi privately:

jimheller@shaw.ca

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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 01:48:46 (EST)
From: Marianne
Email: MarianneDB@aol.com
To: Bai Ji
Subject: Re: Hello Bai Ji
Message:
Bai Ji: It sounds like you are going through a lot and have just arrived at the forum and found EPO. Since it sounds like Katie Darling is a old friend, I urge you to email with her. She's wonderful and warm and a great source of support. Please also feel free to email me if you want.

Fondly, Marianne

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Date: Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 19:51:17 (EST)
From: such
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: spin doctors vs. integrity
Message:
Most people have left the maha cult because of the rugu massa and his org's elephant dung piles, NOT because they wanted an Indian religion.

Secondly, I think generic breath and light meditation is ok -- but greedy, deceitful rugus suck! That's the reason I finally left. You don't need an external false guru. If you have some simple meditation techs that work for you, fine. But always follow your own inner guru - the universal lifeforce. You don't need bogus external guru worship on a spiritual path, especially a two-faced rugu.

Tim appeared intent on being a gurupie and a honcho, and capitalizing on it to make some big bucks from his inner game spinoffs, when he clearly couldn't make it as a pro tennis player. From day one, he was always jumping up into the chair at Wilton Place [in Hollywood] to pontificate at satsang. He always wanted special treatment - and apparently got it. From Harvard brat to Malibu rugu lapdog.

Tim wrote in the preface of the Inner Game of Tennis:

'...for Guru Maharaj Ji
who showed me what Winning is

Men play games because
God first plays a Game.'

Yeah, like winning at the game of how to set yourself up as a honcho, sucker people, and milk their pocketbooks -- a modern premie success story. That's why maha likes him -- because Tim kisses his ass, imitated what he saw [incl a Malibu estate], and made a bundle, too. Maha respects those with money and position, despite any statements to the contrary. That's why those folks get front-row seats [money talks in the cult!], and the devotee 'loosers' go second-class. That's why maha had his subordinates actively solicit city keys, award presentations, bicentennial speeches, etc. And the reason why maha has to have a jet as big and luxurious as Bill Gates, and so forth, is because he's compensating for something fundamental that he sorely lacks...

Everything that the maha cult worship hymn arti taught us was darkness and 'maya' [worldly materialist illusion] -- maha and Tim totally went for. While most premies were practicing humility, surrender, service, dedications, meditation - maha and Tim went after the big bucks. Passive premies and gullible New Age fanciers/seekers were therefore easy marks.

It's also interesting to me that maha didn't like lowly premies even renting a house near him on Anacapa View. [As if they had no right moving into his neighborhood.]

I also remember Tim and Gary Girard setting up the yoga tennis trip in Malibu -- for the jet-set New Age trendy dilettantes.

btw, What did Tim ever do as manual labor for service? I never saw him set up chairs at programs, mop floors, wash cars, or even pull weeds by hand at the residence, or sweep maha's driveway with a broom. No, he was busy making materialist bucks for himself, while other premies toiled and sweated free for maha. Then, Tim got to be a honcho instructor -- and the lowly humble devotees remained lowly and subservient underlings.

(So, Tim Gallwey's book preface really should have read, in truth [and regarding maha's own personal credo]: You can tell the men from the boys by the price of their toys!)

Same thing with Mike Nouri. Michael spent a little time around grunt premies, then went back into films for the fame and bucks -- and the babe action. Then, Mike waltzes in when it's convenient and ends up as the celebrity maha spokesperson.

What are these guys really devotees of, in fact? Their materialist ego desires -- just like maha. That's why they are members of maha's exclusive private circle. The opposite of what maha and his org taught us to aspire to.

aka sharks versus marks. bogus. plastic [as we used to say, way back when].

Every megalomaniacal tyrant and crook needs his apologists, revisionists, spin doctors, and sycophants. A truthful person of integrity doesn't need any public relations spin doctoring. Gandhi and Mother Theresa didn't have forked tongue spin doctors! Neither did Jesus, Buddha, Kabir, Rumi, Surdas, Tulsidas, Ramakrishna, Mira Bai, et al, when they were around.

American president Harry Truman once said, 'The Only people who get rich in politics are Crooks!' Well, the same thing applies to spirituality and religions, as well as to alleged charitable and non-profit organizations. Genuinely spiritual people do NOT misuse position or abuse power to make themselves filthy rich, especially at the expense of others who are trusting in them. And a person who has not even mastered himself or his own unbridled material desires, gluttony, and lust is clearly no master of other human beings.

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Date: Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 01:08:26 (EST)
From: Pullaver
Email: None
To: such
Subject: *****ANOTHER BEST OF*****
Message:
Really Such you deserve your own section over at EPO.
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Date: Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 15:30:22 (EST)
From: such
Email: None
To: Pullaver
Subject: Re: *****ANOTHER BEST OF*****
Message:
Really Such you deserve your own section over at EPO.


---

flattery will get you everywhere! hohoho [hey, JHB, are you listening - me own section?! (but not a vivisection) hahahaha]

gee, now I feel like, uh, Mark Twain.

well, it's great to feel appreciated [after being royally abused and ripped off most of my life]. makes me reconsider and think that I'm not just wasting my time here. y'know, sometimes even a lil swami gets frustrated or depressed, too.

btw, I play the bongos, too. (i.e. beating the drumheads of all the bongo premies -- making beauuuuutiful music -- to enlighten them and give their lobotomised brains THAT EX-perience...)

oh oh, I must be 'in my mind'; well, back to da cave -- for some more medication, er meditation. after all, a mind is a terrible thing to have... hehehe

Peas and lentils,

da lil swami

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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 10:29:46 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: such
Subject: Amazing post, Such [nt]
Message:
Hi Such,
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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 10:23:42 (EST)
From: Carl
Email: None
To: such
Subject: Cult Caste System
Message:
Hi Such, I really appreciate your laserlike illuminations of the M/cult dynamic.

It seems there is a corresponding human weakness in many of us to cower before the projected authority and thereby remain emasculated or infantalised, all in hopes of being somehow cosmically 'saved' (whatever that may mean) sooner or later.

But M needed us more than we needed him, but we never knew it. And the whole show was about concealing that truth. What a clever capitalizing on human weakness!

The DLM/EV official position was always, theoretically, 'universal', caste-free: Why, Surdas (an untouchable) was himself a Master before whom kings were obliged to bow and respect if they wanted to conquer their pride and obtain knowledge of God. Wasn't that a theme in satsangs?

I guess the ancient ingrained cultural stratification could never be erased in the M-cult world. And right from the get-go: M, HF, mahatmas, honchos (PAMs), rich "friends", rich devotees, ashramies, householders, fringe, bongos, the 'world'. Changing terms over time, but various caste distinctions carefully signalled and maintained, with wealth seeming to be the measure of spiritual/devotional worth and attainment (or access, just like in government).

All is somewhat reflective of the traditional basic castes, the Brahmin, Kshatriya (sp?), something(?), Shudra (do you recall them?): Anyway, an enforced societal balancing act by way of strict social segregation. Precious little intermarriage, I believe. I also believe that in India one is psychologically branded or stained with one's caste standing almost from day one, and it is your karmic fate to deal with it, whether in shame, with acceptance, or with arrogant noblesse oblige, all pretensions toward democracy notwithstanding. What societies in this world are truly egalitarian? The Scandanavians? The Dutch? I don't know. Certainly not the U.S., though they try, or Britain. What about Oz? Just about everywhere, money rules, no more so, sadly, than in the "Court of the Lord".

Back to M: Then there is his obsessive keeping up of appearances, 'saving face', wanting so desperately to be the universal monarch, having everything, super cool, that soon gave us the spectacle of Ego unrestrained, bolstered with the evident K as prop, token, and bait.

However, a true teacher teaches one to teach oneself, I would say. M was all about requiring dependence, 'for our own good'.

Wild. Thanks again for a great post.

Best wishes from Carl

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Date: Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 23:40:48 (EST)
From: housemother
Email: None
To: such
Subject: Re: spin doctors vs. integrity
Message:
So true, Such. The very reason I decided to join this forum after years away from goo-boy and a year of lurking is because I read the archived transcripts of Erika Andersen. Talk about elephant dung piles, sorry to be crass, but she was the most supercilious, saccharine, self-promoting premie at COLL. When I read her patronizing, pseudo-benelovent postings on the forum, and the way she was sending (love) and (kisses) and (big hugs) to all the former honchos, name dropping even with the exes, I thought I was going to have vasovagal syncope. Not all that glitters is gold.
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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 13:12:30 (EST)
From: Suzie
Email: None
To: housemother
Subject: Erika Andersen and the Cult of Ambition
Message:
But housemom, Erika was NICE. She was just so NICE, that I think she was voted the nicest premie who ever came on the Forum and argued with ex-premies. I think that might be reflective of the nature of the other premies who have come here, and that's pretty bad. Even some ex-premies were taken in by her sickening but very aggressive, 'niceness.'

But Erika did bring exhibitionist egotism and passive aggression to new heights. I also don't think putting up that unctuous, blatantly dishonest pleaseconsiderthis website of hers (RIP) hurt her place on the strata of premie ambition, which has always been Erika's major motivation. It did make her look pretty stupid, though. That may be why it has been removed. Even cult social climbers have some level of standards.

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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 20:04:07 (EST)
From: housemom
Email: None
To: Suzie
Subject: Cult of Ambition YES! (nt)
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 23:21:54 (EST)
From: housemother
Email: None
To: such
Subject: Bravo
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 22:54:16 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: such
Subject: Such, you are amazing
Message:
Another right-on great post from that interesting mind of yours. Thanks. Well said.
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Date: Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 17:16:50 (EST)
From: Vicki
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: Tim Gallway is a Liar
Message:
I was at their wedding, accidently, as an aspirant waiting for a knowledge session at some big, old hall in L.A. and caught their wedding bouquet by default from a little boy who's lap it landed in and he tossed it in mine. His wife became an instructor, don't know if he did. Don't know if she still is. I think her name was Sally.
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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 14:23:47 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: Nouri Picture [nt]
Message:

[ Graphic Link ]
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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 19:20:00 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: Nouri Picture try this link
Message:
http://www.cigaraficionado.com/Cigar/Aficionado/people/fh995.html
[ nouri article ]
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Date: Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 01:23:43 (EST)
From: Excellent! +)
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Irony of Ironies
Message:
Over the past three years, he was a regular on the CBS sitcom 'Love and War.' 'It was one of the hardest things I've ever done,' he says. 'I lucked into working with a very talented cast and great writers and producers like Diane English.

Diane English, one of the creators of Murphy Brown and other shows, was one of the producers of the documentary Lord of the Universe.

Ya gotta love it.

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Date: Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 08:55:58 (EST)
From: Irony man
Email: None
To: Excellent! +)
Subject: Re: Irony of Ironies
Message:
Would Diane English like to know more about Mr. Nouri and his guru that he speaks for?
Would she care to comment on her LOTU experience?

And, I've always wondered if the LOTU producers had old tapes from the cutting room floor that they never used, that might be available for viewing?

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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 20:06:59 (EST)
From: housemom
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: ad nauseum (nt)
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 20:22:50 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: housemom
Subject: I never heard of him before EPO [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 19:52:07 (EST)
From: such
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: this part's great:
Message:
Nouri: 'I really like playing somebody who has his reality stood right on his head,' he says. 'It's wonderful to play such a character, because you get to go somewhere with the role, to play different aspects of yourself. I get a chance to ask myself what it feels like to be in total control of a situation, and then to go into a tailspin, to be thrown into complete chaos. And then I ask myself, how do I pull myself into control again?'

[hahaha, i think we awweddy btdt!]

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Date: Tues, Jan 15, 2002 at 13:24:45 (EST)
From: Information
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: Re: Tim Gallway is a Liar
Message:
Tim and Sally are divorced. Sally's a therapist now.
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Date: Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 15:33:47 (EST)
From: housemother
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: Tim Gallway is a Liar
Message:
Gallway came to Houston in 73/4, and was already a celebrity.
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