cq -:- The origins of 'the Knowledge' -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 13:22:23 (EST)

Peg -:- How did I believe those lies. -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 09:38:22 (EST)

__ Vicki -:- Some of you were smarter. -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 12:13:00 (EST)

__ Jim -:- Great post ........ but -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 11:57:38 (EST)

__ __ Joe -:- Lied to premies v. Premie liars/Inner Circle -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 12:27:57 (EST)

__ magiclara -:- Marvelous Peg absolutly marvelous nt -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 11:43:30 (EST)

__ JHB -:- Great Post, Peg, all 3 times! -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 11:27:37 (EST)

__ michael donner -:- wonderful post, nt -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 11:04:16 (EST)

__ ExP -:- Re: How did I believe those lies. -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 10:21:41 (EST)

ExP -:- Belkis .... -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 09:20:57 (EST)

__ livia dowte -:- Re: Belkis .... -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 09:58:59 (EST)

__ __ Tami -:- Devine sex -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 12:17:15 (EST)

The Maharaji of Malibu's -:- #2 son WILL inherit family BIZ -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 07:09:44 (EST)

__ Yeah -:- It reads -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 09:36:42 (EST)

__ ExP -:- Re: #2 son WILL inherit family BIZ -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 08:34:56 (EST)

__ Bryn -:- M and King Lear -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 07:47:54 (EST)

__ Julian -:- Well spotted -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 07:28:34 (EST)

Livia Dowte -:- doubt -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 06:39:54 (EST)

__ Mirror -:- Re: doubt -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 08:31:48 (EST)

__ __ livia dowte -:- Re: doubt -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 09:51:40 (EST)

__ __ __ magiclara -:- Re: doubt -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 11:51:09 (EST)

__ __ __ __ cq -:- The 5 Commandments (and more!) -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 13:00:56 (EST)

suchabanana -:- Enjoying life? Fax Mitch Ditkoff! -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 05:50:30 (EST)

__ such -:- guess who wrote this one? for real: -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 06:34:23 (EST)

Salam -:- just wondering -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 20:39:13 (EST)

__ salsa -:- Re: just wondering -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 04:49:21 (EST)

__ Jethro -:- Salam you idiot OT -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 03:58:54 (EST)

__ __ PatC -:- Give the guy a break, Jethro -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 04:02:21 (EST)

__ __ __ Jethro -:- I know that Pat but -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 04:05:44 (EST)

__ __ __ __ Jim -:- No, Jethro, THAT's unreasonable -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 12:16:27 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Re: No, Jethro, THAT's unreasonable -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 12:52:11 (EST)

__ __ __ __ PatC -:- I know that too, Jethro........ -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 04:21:07 (EST)

__ gerry -:- I don't think so, Salam -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 21:07:56 (EST)

__ __ salam -:- OK -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 23:18:42 (EST)

Marianne -:- Sympathy for the devil? -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 20:33:51 (EST)

__ Cynthia -:- Re: Sympathy for the devil?????? -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 12:14:30 (EST)

__ Jethro -:- The triangle is the answer -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 03:36:12 (EST)

__ PatD -:- Re: Sympathy for the devil? -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 22:46:39 (EST)

OTS -:- Jagdeo's Heavy Hitting Satsang -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 17:18:09 (EST)

__ Bai Ji -:- Off The Scale...Great Post(nt) -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 21:32:14 (EST)

__ Voyeur -:- Re: Jagdeo's Heavy Hitting Satsang -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 17:32:19 (EST)

__ Deborah -:- Bestest of Forum -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 17:30:45 (EST)

__ __ Marianne -:- Keep it coming, OTS -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 17:59:06 (EST)

__ __ __ gerry -:- that was a beaut, OTS -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 20:50:26 (EST)

gerry-Alright then it's settled -:- Catweasel is persona non grata -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 15:32:29 (EST)

__ janet -:- i vote yes [nt] -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 03:40:33 (EST)

__ Marshall -:- but, what about..... -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 17:20:15 (EST)

__ __ Francesca :~) -:- Marshall - He makes the exes look bad -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 12:08:34 (EST)

__ __ __ JohnT -:- You are right, Francesca -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 12:25:35 (EST)

__ __ __ __ Marshall -:- Re: You are right, Francesca -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 12:41:22 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ Francesca :~) -:- Maybe we could have Worst of Forum? -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 12:52:33 (EST)

__ __ gerry -:- That's true, marshall -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 19:50:32 (EST)

__ __ __ Sulla -:- Re: What about his point? -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 07:20:54 (EST)

__ __ __ __ gerry -:- Re: What about his point? -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 10:14:52 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Don't Feed the Beast... -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 13:25:39 (EST)

__ __ __ zelda -:- Re: That's true, marshall -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 19:57:45 (EST)

__ __ __ __ Nigel -:- LOL! If only... -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 06:21:38 (EST)

__ __ __ __ gerry -:- Catweasel on Display?? -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 20:43:22 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ cq -:- or 'look what the cat brought in'? (nt) -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 12:39:27 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ Zelda -:- Re: Catweasel on Display? -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 21:26:10 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Francesca -:- When EPO is back up again -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 12:26:09 (EST)

Francesca :~) -:- RecentExes: local community news? -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 14:20:26 (EST)

__ Sulla -:- Re:My premie friend sent or send? me this one. -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 07:32:39 (EST)

__ __ Francesca :~) -:- Thanks Sulla -- the news must not be ... -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 12:59:30 (EST)

__ MISSY -:- Re: RecentExes: local community news? -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 16:19:59 (EST)

__ __ JHB -:- Quota for Propagation??? -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 16:41:59 (EST)

__ ExP -:- Re: RecentExes: local community news? -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 14:49:07 (EST)

__ __ Francesca -:- Thanks -- Pat's got it -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 15:17:48 (EST)

__ __ __ Deborah -:- Teletubby, ha ha -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 17:34:36 (EST)

__ __ __ Maria -:- Francesca could you email me, ta! -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 15:56:26 (EST)

__ __ PatC -:- Through the grapevine... -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 14:57:32 (EST)

__ __ __ janet -:- hey pat, would you know -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 03:51:39 (EST)

__ __ __ __ PatC -:- The Hindi word for hate -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 04:17:55 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ John G -:- Here's an interesting one -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 05:17:48 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ janet -:- green with jealousy? -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 04:27:03 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- green with jealousy? Yep! ;) [nt] -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 04:31:56 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Sorry, green with envy ;) -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 04:33:59 (EST)

__ __ __ __ Jethro -:- The term premie was -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 04:02:42 (EST)

__ __ __ Pullaver -:- Get yer credit cards out . . . -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 20:37:52 (EST)

__ __ __ McDuck -:- Re: Through the grapevine... -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 20:22:31 (EST)

__ __ __ __ PatC -:- That's the letter I sent Rawat -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 03:15:26 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ Vicki -:- Re: That's the letter I sent Rawat -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 08:28:30 (EST)

Vicki -:- Let's write the facts -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 13:22:31 (EST)

__ Dermot -:- How cynical Vicki -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 16:39:48 (EST)

__ The Maharaji of Malibu -:- is exposed for what he is-Thank You -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 15:35:29 (EST)

__ Chris -:- the history not taught within the cult! (nt) -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 15:30:51 (EST)

__ Steve Mueller -:- Re: Let's write the facts -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 13:54:25 (EST)

__ Anandaji -:- Re: Let's write the facts -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 13:48:04 (EST)

__ magiclara -:- Brilliant Vicki -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 13:44:07 (EST)

__ Cynthia -:- This is a Must Read! -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 13:40:30 (EST)

__ Steve Mueller -:- Re: Let's write the facts -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 13:39:35 (EST)

Joe -:- A Cult Video Review -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 12:51:19 (EST)

__ Tonette -:- I saw that video too. -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 06:35:55 (EST)

__ Kelly -:- Re: A Cult Video Review -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 17:28:20 (EST)

__ __ gerry -:- Re: A Cult Video Review -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 20:39:33 (EST)

__ ExP -:- Skin Condition -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 15:34:32 (EST)

__ __ janet -:- Re: i think you mean cirrhosis -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 04:19:47 (EST)

__ __ __ ExP -:- Re: i think you mean cirrhosis -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 05:52:38 (EST)

__ __ Joe -:- Also puffy eyes and lips. -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 15:36:10 (EST)

__ Dermot -:- Hilarious Joe -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 15:20:04 (EST)

__ __ Gina in Atlanta -:- Re: Hilarious Joe -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 18:00:04 (EST)

__ __ berni -:- Hey Joe - Stop it ! -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 17:09:27 (EST)

__ Anandaji -:- Re: A Cult Video Review -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 14:19:25 (EST)

__ __ Dermot -:- Jeeze Anandaji -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 15:24:50 (EST)

__ __ housemum -:- nurture your sanity -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 14:27:44 (EST)

__ housemum -:- Re: A Cult Video Review -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 13:21:18 (EST)

__ __ PatC -:- In ''91/2 Weeks''.... -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 14:47:10 (EST)

__ __ __ Cynthia -:- Doggie Darshan... -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 13:18:48 (EST)

__ __ __ magiclara -:- Re: In ''91/2 Weeks''.... -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 15:33:06 (EST)

__ __ __ __ JHB -:- Latvian Club pics -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 16:39:57 (EST)

__ __ __ Dermot -:- Fucking hell Pat -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 15:30:34 (EST)

__ __ __ __ PatC -:- Nice to have you back, Dermot [nt] -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 15:38:53 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Agree, Pat - nice to see ya, Dermot -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 16:02:50 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Dermot -:- Hey Just emailed you Marianne -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 17:43:59 (EST)

__ __ __ Joe -:- Now Pat... -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 15:19:44 (EST)

__ __ __ __ PatC -:- Joe, I dare you.... -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 15:26:32 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ janet -:- already did it. got arrested too. -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 04:37:11 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Have you got a scanner? -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 04:43:46 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ janet -:- Re: scanner? yes, but no pc yet -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 05:33:57 (EST)

__ __ __ housemum -:- Beyond Brilliant!!! (nt) -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 15:06:08 (EST)

__ __ Vicki -:- Re: A Cult Video Review -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 13:48:28 (EST)

__ __ __ PatC -:- The video river of indoctrination -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 14:55:02 (EST)

__ __ __ __ Disculta -:- What current culties have been up to... -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 21:58:56 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ Vicki -:- Re: What current culties have been up to... -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 07:50:46 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- The videos are all alike -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 03:39:49 (EST)

Jethro -:- A t- break for Brits only OT -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 12:36:38 (EST)

__ Joe -:- Hey, Jeth a Q for you -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 19:00:52 (EST)

__ __ Dermot -:- Not sure -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 21:00:56 (EST)

__ __ __ Joe -:- So I take it, -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 21:03:26 (EST)

__ __ __ __ JohnT -:- Re: So I take it, -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 09:44:26 (EST)

__ __ __ __ Nottingham Bunny -:- Inflated prices OT -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 04:36:28 (EST)

__ __ __ __ Dermot -:- Re: So I take it, -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 21:25:28 (EST)

__ __ Marianne -:- Euros in Ireland-OT -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 19:11:38 (EST)

__ Bryn -:- ho ho ho. Mirth! nt -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 12:51:08 (EST)

gerry -:- find ex-premie pages cached on google -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 11:43:44 (EST)

__ ExP -:- Re: find ex-premie pages cached on google -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 15:11:10 (EST)

__ Julian -:- Re: find ex-premie pages cached on google -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 13:32:28 (EST)

__ housemum -:- Re: find ex-premie pages cached on google -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 12:25:20 (EST)

Jean-Michel -:- Nouveau Forum français -:- Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 11:38:19 (EST)

Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 13:22:23 (EST) From: cq Email: None To: All Subject: The origins of 'the Knowledge' Message:

Amazing what you can find when the resources are in short supply. In other words, it's only because EPO is down, and some kind soul recently posts a link to the Google cache, that I start to check out what's still left of the huge amount of material that is/was EPO. And what do I find? Just THE most amazing history of 'Knowledge'. (and I thought I knew my way round the ex-premie.org site). Click on the link above for a revelation! (and thanks, Jean-Michel, for all your hard work - and may EPO find a safe home soon). http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:z92X0j4XytwC:www.ex-premie.org/papers/medtech.htm+&hl=en [ The origins of the techniques ]

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 09:38:22 (EST) From: Peg Email: None To: All Subject: How did I believe those lies. Message:

I have been wondering more and more how I managed to live with all the weird and inconsistent beliefs I subscribed to so recently. I was a liar in so many ways when I was a premie. I was a liar in that I never questioned the party line. I was there in the days when he openly said guru is greater than god, give me the reins of your life etc. In those early days it was easy to believe for me I think it's possible he even believed it himself.. It was easy to believe because it was reinforced constantly by gopi-chat in the day, large pictures on every wall, a huge investment in that almost everything I did was either to get closer to m inside or to serve his holey mission, topped off with 3hrs of mutual brainwashing and an hour or two of exhausted nodding under a blanket every night. In those days I wouldn't call myself a liar just brainwashed and deluded. And I can forgive myself for that.. I was young and vulnerable and a bit above myself. One of the chosen few with a mission to bring peace to the world was something to be. But in 1975 I left that factory farm environment and had my first real doubts. This is where I first started to lie to myself. And when the mutual brainwashing was halted I thought we were lucky, I had recognized that some of my fellow devotees would bullshit a bit and surely it would be so beneficial just to hear the pure words of the master and look at his glorious form. (I know, I know!) But slowly I grew up and began to mix in the wider world (before my kids went to school I don't think I knew anyone that wasn't a premie). I remember well in about 1984 wanting to ask Maharaji if he was the only way. I could see the same belief in followers of other religions and cults. I never asked him.. I used to write an affirmation…. 'I am now ready to fearlessly examine my relation with Maharaji' Well I may have been ready!!! Here the lying escalated. I hardly talked about Maharaji after this, not even to my children. (the mother's instinct won through). I adjusted my beliefs gradually to enable me to continue to be a premie. Lie number one; I continued to persuade myself I loved Maharaji. I left the ashram in 1975, I had fallen in love with a real person, people like Saphalanand were smoking dope and such with some of the ashram premies. This was in London. I was in what Glen W called a non-satsang ashram there was more room to think and desire than in the previous ashrams I'd been in. There was some indecision about whether we would both leave but I left anyway and remember saying 'I don't belong here I don't love Maharaji anymore.' I went to Edinburgh, a place I had loved before K, I visited the ashram there and being an outsider for the first time in years saw a really depressed and unfriendly group of people, they didn't talk to each other. The next year for me was very hard emotionally, I was in a right state but blamed it on leaving the ashram and my own and my new partners (he did leave) failings. Surrounded by premies and satsang, I did not pursue my doubts but drowned them in SS&M and as much D as we could afford. Lie number two. I continued to tell myself, secretly inside, that Maharaji was in some way divine. This was a lie because, if I had truly followed through and examined the doubt about 'only way' I would have probably ended up realizing more. The lie was that I just told myself it would all be made clear at the right time M was my divine enlightened master and knew best. I let this question rest. It made me feel uncomfortable whenever I met a devotee of Rajneesh or Babaji or a spiritual Christian, I never met them with a similar devotional fervor which, looking back was because I didn't honestly believe it anymore, I was lying. Lie number three; I continued to pay lip service to Knowledge as the manifestation of God within. Since 1979 I had my third child and stopped regular meditation. I realised that what I had always thought was nectar was in fact the discharge of electricity between gold and mercury in my mouth. Nothing had really changed in my meditation since I first started practicing….I did often enjoy it when I did it, and occasionally experienced lovely out of body floating sensations and euphoria, but NOTHING that I could remotely say with any sort of certainty was an experience of god within (whatever that may be) or was nearly as mind blowing as LSD. It did not necessarily make anything better for me when I did it, although I worried about becoming a rotting cabbage at first. Then in the eighties I tried rebirthing (a breathing technique) and had a much more powerful and reliable experience with this. I justified it by saying that rebirthing cleared the way for the experience of knowledge… but I didn't even practice those famous techniques. I would tend to attribute any good feeling to my sporadic practicing of the knowledge and being a (sshh!) devotee of the perfect master. This was not rational and did me no good at all. I was lying. There are probably loads more and there is definitely the one about his beautiful form.( I always wished he had nice eyes and why was he so fat.) I just wanted to have a go at working things out on paper like people do here,. Quite enjoyed it but it took me sooo long! Peg

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 12:13:00 (EST) From: Vicki Email: None To: Peg Subject: Some of you were smarter. Message:

Okay, a lot of you were smarter. I can't believe I never saw through any of this. Honestly, if it weren't for EPO I'd still be trying to suffer through videos and broadcasts and events, and never have known how sweet it really is to feel my life again, free of the shackles of practicing knowledge and devotion to one who is the ultimate lie, the ultimate living lie. No matter how impatient you feel about yourself, it can never ever compare to the lies that we were force fed. You strike me as an incredibly honest person. Maybe that's why this seems so glaringly obvious to you now. I guess we all need kindness towards ourselves. We gave it to Maharaji and he didn't deserve it.

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 11:57:38 (EST) From: Jim Email: None To: Peg Subject: Great post ........ but Message:

Peg, The only caveat I have about calling that self-deception 'lying' was that we were set up specifically to doubt our own bullshit-detector. Yes, we all lied about the Emperor's New Clothes but we'd accepted a directive of No Doubt / Self-Doubt that made it impossible for us to even listen to ourselves. So 'lying' seems a little harsh to me. Somehow, though, the game's changed to a point where I think it is a fair term for what premies do now as they try to cope with the truth about M as it's surfaced. And no, I'm not just saying that because I'm now on the comfortable side of that moral quagmire. I just think that the game's evolved to that level where protecting M now, in the face of all the evidence against him, much of if coming from M himself of course, is indeed indefensible lying.

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 12:27:57 (EST) From: Joe Email: Kevjo@mindspring.com To: Jim Subject: Lied to premies v. Premie liars/Inner Circle Message:

Jim, agreed that it is a lot harder to lie to oneself these days, but I also think there is a division among premies. There are the premie 'average-Joes' who I think are the ones leaving in droves these days, partly because they can no longer afford to be in that very expensive cult, and then there are the 'inner circle' crowd. The people from the Passages video were mostly from that crowd. Plus, it was very clear Passages was for the purpose of indoctrinating the existing, plebian, premies into the re-write of history that Maharaji wants to put out, mouthed by the inner circle gang. Inside Edition, down below, said the following, which I think is very true and very important, especially when we think about who did CAC, who hacked the EPO site, and who might do just about anything to protect Maharaji's big ass. The Malibu inner circle (Gallway, Pascotto brothers, Bonthous, etc) as well as the UK branch (Whittaker, Collier, Greaves, etc) obviously will say and do ANYTHING to please their Lord. How can there be anything wrong with divine deception if you are following direct agya? If they don't, they risk their ultimate nightmare - pissing off the Lord, and being banished. Just ask Bonthous what that feels like! This is also, in my opinion, what makes them all so incredibly dangerous. I think this is very perceptive, and very true. BTW -- great post Peg. It's that kind of analysis that sets you free.

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 11:43:30 (EST) From: magiclara Email: None To: Peg Subject: Marvelous Peg absolutly marvelous nt Message:

t

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 11:27:37 (EST) From: JHB Email: None To: Peg Subject: Great Post, Peg, all 3 times! Message:

Great post. I was also lying to myself for so long, and I think I knew it, which was why it was realtively easy for me to exit. The main feeling was one of relief that I don't have to lie anymore or believe such rubbish. BTW, I removed the two extra copies of your post:-) John the Forum Elf assistant number 2 (part-time)

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 11:04:16 (EST) From: michael donner Email: None To: Peg Subject: wonderful post, nt Message:

nt

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 10:21:41 (EST) From: ExP Email: None To: Peg Subject: Re: How did I believe those lies. Message:

Peg Beautiful post. I was especially caught by the words, as below, as it reinforces the constant need to love oneself and not doubt one's own thoughts. --- - And I can forgive myself for that.. I was young and vulnerable and a bit above myself. One of the chosen few with a mission to bring peace to the world was something to be. --- - You may wish to edit your message - large chunks seems to be repeated. Love ExP

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 09:20:57 (EST) From: ExP Email: ex_premie@yahoo.com To: All Subject: Belkis .... Message:

Somewhere down below someone posted this extract. --- The last one I receive from my premie friend was this one: 'You are most warmly invited to an Introductory Video Event at the Intercontinental Hotel, located in downtown Miami, Mezzanine Theater, 100 Chopin Plaza, on Sunday, January 20, at 6:00 PM. Belkis will speak at this event. --- -- Now I sure remember Belkis very well (sister of Banu who's married to Bobby Henry, in turn cook extroadinaire to the Goo). When Belkis gave satsang at the Palace of Peace, the audience was especially attentive - mostly the male members of the audience .. -) Now I wonder if.... - no can't be true. Anyway she would never tell. 8) memories ... ExP

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 09:58:59 (EST) From: livia dowte Email: None To: ExP Subject: Re: Belkis .... Message:

Er....I don't get you. You wonder what? (I'm probably slow on the uptake)

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 12:17:15 (EST) From: Tami Email: None To: livia dowte Subject: Devine sex Message:

Hee wundirs if Mirage fuked her. Rite? Mirage sed he wud fuk mi if I got a bube job and died mi hare blond. So I did.

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 07:09:44 (EST) From: The Maharaji of Malibu's Email: None To: All Subject: #2 son WILL inherit family BIZ Message:

In the link here(that ExP found, see below), I just put in the last name of rawat in the search engine. So, I also came up with # 2 son, Amar being a licensed pilot. If I'm not mistaken, the ability to fly is a major spec for becoming the CEO/COO of the vast rawat empire. Now, the cynics might say he flies cuz it's fun but I'm old school and still believe 'not a fucking leaf moves'. You understand what I'm saying here! Picking the youngest to take over kinda legitimizes Prem's Satguruship. This could even happen soon with Prem becoming The Maharaji of Malibu Emeritus. Hey Amar! Suggestion! Find a good podiatrist now! [ The Flying Guru of Malibu ]

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 09:36:42 (EST) From: Yeah Email: None To: The Maharaji of Malibu's Subject: It reads Message:

http://www.landings.com/evird.acgi?pass=42701915&ref=-&mtd=41&cgi=%2Fcgi-bin%2Fnph-search_namd&var=9&buf=66&src=_landings%2Fpages%2Fsearch_namd.html&1=rawat&2=amar&5=malibu&6=CA&7=&9=&8=usa&10=&13=&14=&16=&17=&infieldlogic18=OR&infieldlogic19=OR&data_type=HTML&return=SCREEN_RET&fullsearch=NO&max_ret=10&start_ret=1 Pilots Database Search Result --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- -- Name : RAWAT, AMAR PAL SINGH Pilot's Address : 31334 ANACAPA VIEW DR MALIBU, CA, 90265-2673 FAA Region : Western/Pacific Date of Medical : Oct, 2001 Class of Medical : 3 Expiration : Oct, 2004 Pilot Certificates : Student Pilot

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 08:34:56 (EST) From: ExP Email: ex_premie@yahoo.com To: The Maharaji of Malibu's Subject: Re: #2 son WILL inherit family BIZ Message:

MoM Well spotted! Silly me in being too specific and inserting 'Prem'. Actually I was reflecting on the matter of health (see way below now) and wondering who will inherit EV and the Goo's mission. Various names came to mind, Valerio, Julian West, George Blodwell (hey his first mahatma would be his hairdresser no doubt!). But of course the Goo will and should nominate Amar - hey why break with tradition - keep it in the family ()) Although I do wonder (him being a Westernized Satguru and all that)if the female line will be passed over. Daya, what do you think? :p I see my old mate SatPal of Dehra Dun seems to have already nominated Shri Shradhey Ji Maharaj (his oldest son). Did you ever catch the guy giving satsang? Click on the Real Audio link above (I hope the link works ok - it did not last night). Anyway it is a great rib tickler - do all the Rawat coven have to have such high pitched voices? :( ExP [ Second nomination for future SatGooRoo? ]

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 07:47:54 (EST) From: Bryn Email: None To: The Maharaji of Malibu's Subject: M and King Lear Message:

I think he is going to do a Lear. An insecure old despot, short on any genuine reflection from his subjects, setting up hoops for his beloved ones to jump through to reassure himself.I hope there is someone there with a video camera when he gets to the 'Heath' bit! Putting it like that I have made myself feel a twinge of affection for the old bastard! I shall stop now. love Bryn

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 07:28:34 (EST) From: Julian Email: None To: The Maharaji of Malibu's Subject: Well spotted Message:

Pilots Database Search Result --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- -- Name : RAWAT, AMAR PAL SINGH Pilot's Address : 31334 ANACAPA VIEW DR MALIBU, CA, 90265-2673 FAA Region : Western/Pacific Date of Medical : Oct, 2001 Class of Medical : 3 Expiration : Oct, 2004 Pilot Certificates : Student Pilot --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- -- Name : RAWAT, PREM PAL SINGH Pilot's Address : 31334 ANACAPA VIEW DR MALIBU, CA, 90265-2673 FAA Region : Western/Pacific Date of Medical : Aug, 2001 Class of Medical : 1 Expiration : Feb, 2002 Pilot Certificates : Airline Transport Pilot Airplane Multiengine Land Rotorcraft Helicopter (Commercial Pilot) Instrument Helicopter (Commercial Pilot) Glider (Commercial Pilot)

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 06:39:54 (EST) From: Livia Dowte Email: None To: All Subject: doubt Message:

My favourite subject again. Does anybody know when the five commandments stopped being given out at Knowledge sessions? I had no idea until I read it here. This must mean that the newer premies aren't being commanded to leave no room for doubt in their minds. Does anyone think that this commandment has made it particularly difficult for old premies to question? And that newer premies can drift off more easily without fear?

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 08:31:48 (EST) From: Mirror Email: None To: Livia Dowte Subject: Re: doubt Message:

What are the five commendments? I never heard of that? I received K in 1982 and only had to promise never to reveal the techniques. I don't remember promising anything else? Mirror

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 09:51:40 (EST) From: livia dowte Email: None To: Mirror Subject: Re: doubt Message:

They were: leave no room for doubt in your mind, constantly meditate and remember holy name, do not put off until tomorrow what you can do today, never delay in attending satsang, always have faith in God. Although not necessarily in that order. 'Constantly meditate and remember holy name' became an awkward one presumably when holy name wasn't called holy name any more, and when Maharaji suddenly told us we didn't need to do the renamed '3rd technique' constantly any more. No big deal about it, it was suddenly dropped. Consequently thousands of premies who had for years been feverishly trying to block out their thoughts all day, or feeling guilty because they weren't bothering, found themselves being allowed to think all day again, without any explanation from on high. Not that I remember anyway. Does anybody know when this change took place and how?

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 11:51:09 (EST) From: magiclara Email: None To: livia dowte Subject: Re: doubt Message:

Hi Liv I don't know when the change took place but I do remember the mindfuck of trying not to think and the guilt when you failed. Hellfire! the things he put people through. The slimy rotten toe rag

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 13:00:56 (EST) From: cq Email: None To: magiclara Subject: The 5 Commandments (and more!) Message:

Here's an eye-opener for Mirror (and for me too - and I was an ashram premie!) BTW, just click on the link above and scroll down to Part 3, item A9 for the 'famous' 5 Commandments. http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:074X9e-Y1CwC:www.ex-premie.org/papers/Amanual.htm+&hl=en [ The Code of the Renunciate Order of Divine Light Mission ]

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 05:50:30 (EST) From: suchabanana Email: Bambi@peroxide.com To: All Subject: Enjoying life? Fax Mitch Ditkoff! Message:

Mitch Ditkoff: tele/fax: 914-679-1068 [or better yet, email a submission at the site itself! http://www.enjoyinglife.org/] like, send him a juicy poem, or something... i.e.: A Blonde Devotee's Prayer I think I shall never see anything as lovely on a tv, as your radiant golden face beaming out at me, in a hushed and darkened room, my wretched heart beats fast -- boom-boom, boom-boom, an earnest plea, my Lord and Perfect Master, please be gentle and real for me. When I feel an emptyness inside, Maharaji's love fills me up and satisfies my space. Please take me for a ride, oh Master, and fulfill that aching place. Oh, please, my perfect lover, completely fill me up with the divine juices of your extended loving cup I pant with eager anticipation, to share The Master's propagation and fill this inner vacuum with the honey of elation. Then, maybe I can make a better donation 'cause I probably don't even need that two-week vacation and please accept this small estate (which surely I won't need) for you know how to spend it, you who have no greed and nip me with the niblet of your instructive master's stick I feel excitement from the sting now, oh - be quick, be quick! this pathetic creature begs for more I can't get enough of your love yet you shower me with golden streams from that throne of yours above I long to kiss and touch your precious chubby feet you who do not drink, philander or eat blood flesh of meat oh, please drive me away now in your lovely Rolls Royce car and I shan't complain afterwards, even if you leave - or smoke a fine Cuban cigar, My Lord and Perfect Master, whoever you are. - Bambi Nicole Lewis [Yeah, that's the ticket. See how easy that was. Ok, who's next? remember: the sappier and crapppier, the better.] fer crying out Lard!

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 06:34:23 (EST) From: such Email: None To: suchabanana Subject: guess who wrote this one? for real: Message:

Maharaji: Are you your own friend? 'Am I my friend? Do I agree with me? Or do I walk around going: 'I shouldn't have done that. I'm stupid, I'm this, I'm that, I'm crazy. What are other people going to think about me?' I find this to be a very big disease: what are other people going to think about you. People get embarrassed. And it's like what are other people going to think about you. By the way, what do you think about yourself?' remember Michele Deradune? poor thing, guess she's still in a quandary, her mind twisting in the wind...

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 20:39:13 (EST) From: Salam Email: None To: All Subject: just wondering Message:

I haven't been reading or posting on this forum [may god bless it], but can anyone tell me if the guru has become an ex yet? Like I said, just wondering. B)

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 04:49:21 (EST) From: salsa Email: None To: Salam Subject: Re: just wondering Message:

he was never a P R E M I E to begin with. I don't understand your question. ())juajuajuajua... Hi u!

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 03:58:54 (EST) From: Jethro Email: None To: Salam Subject: Salam you idiot OT Message:

I saw on another forum(I think the SAT forum) you use the term 'Jewish cunts'. I hope for your sake that there isn't enough information on the net to identify who you are. The Jewish Defense League is alive and well in most parts of the world and would certainly identify you as an anti-Jewish scumbag who should have the shit kicked out of him. This is a friendly warning. Take care Jethro

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 04:02:21 (EST) From: PatC Email: None To: Jethro Subject: Give the guy a break, Jethro Message:

I tried reasoning with him but he is not a well man.

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 04:05:44 (EST) From: Jethro Email: None To: PatC Subject: I know that Pat but Message:

I really mean what I said. I am concerned for his safety. Some of these vigilaties are real nutters and are particularly sensative at the moment. All the best Jethro

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 12:16:27 (EST) From: Jim Email: None To: Jethro Subject: No, Jethro, THAT's unreasonable Message:

Jethro, The JDL is a tiny, tiny, tiny group of almost negligable proportions. There aren't enough radical jews in the world for Salam to worry about. Now, if what he'd said was something about those 'Muslim cunts', well, then that'd be a different story, woudln't it?

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 12:52:11 (EST) From: gerry Email: None To: Jim Subject: Re: No, Jethro, THAT's unreasonable Message:

The JDL is a tiny, tiny, tiny group of almost negligable proportions Yes, and I heard half of them are behind bars... :)

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 04:21:07 (EST) From: PatC Email: None To: Jethro Subject: I know that too, Jethro........ Message:

...but even more important is that ordinary sane people are also offended by it and will continue to exclude him from the human race much to his disadvantage.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 21:07:56 (EST) From: gerry Email: None To: Salam Subject: I don't think so, Salam Message:

I believe he still drinks, smokes and womanizes but as far as I know he's still married. What brings an ole prickly pear like yourself to these parts? Things too warm for you in Oz? I thought you A-rabs liked it hot...

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 23:18:42 (EST) From: salam Email: None To: gerry Subject: OK Message:

I guess you're lucky in a way init? If he does he'll want to post on f7 then everyone wants to go to AG or sat-chit forum. By the way, will you ban him, if he tried to post? Am not your ordinary Arab that's why you silly man.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 20:33:51 (EST) From: Marianne Email: MarianneDB@aol.com To: All Subject: Sympathy for the devil? Message:

Things are really popping here. The contributions of all the new exes are wonderful, and bringing new insights to me. Plus, you are full of information about events old and new. Do tell! Today, I was called the functional equivalent of Osama bin Laden by a premie. At first, I was really angry. Now that a few hours have passed, I want to thank that intelligent soul for having called me such an epithet. You showed us a great deal about yourself and your blind devotion to your master. You have given us a rare view into how truly isolated some premies have become in their dedication to Captain Rawat and how twisted and misguided in their thinking some have become. I was not going to say anything in the thread where Sampuranand's death was discussed. Having suffered through more than my share of death at a very early age, loss is still loss, no matter who experiences it. Plus, I deal with death every single day in my work. I remained silent until some idjeet started calling exes who were angry about Sampuranand's possible role in covering up Jagdeo's sexual abuse 'vultures' and insensitive. This raises the questions: should we feel sympathy for Rotwat under these circumstances? And, why do some premies ignore the extraordinary expressions of pain, sorrow, loss and compassion posted here and then rail at us for being insensitive vultures when Sampuranand dies? I have my own theories about this, but I have to run out right now. Tell me what you think. Marianne

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 12:14:30 (EST) From: Cynthia Email: None To: Marianne Subject: Re: Sympathy for the devil?????? Message:

Dear Marianne, Since it was I who first expressed no sympathy for the devil under the thread 'Sampuranand,' I want to respond. First, I have no sympathy whatsoever for Rawat, regardless of what happens in his life. How could I? I've never done what he has done; I've never pretended to be the Lord of the Universe. I only bought into his evil plan to use and use and use his followers more than I ever dreamt possible. I have come to know that maharaji is dangerous and evil. My devotion to him was real in my heart, mind, and soul, and maharaji proved to be a thief of my heart and soul and spirituality, as well as my emotional health, my physical health which affects me to this day. Now, I don't even know what a soul is or if such a thing exists. I slaved for him with the reward being nothing but more demands, plus the ''love of the lord.'' He told me that ultimate lie. Maharaji had no sympathy for me when I collapsed after a year of slaving for him at DECA; he, through his minions threw me away to fend for myself--there was no real protection in the ashram, although he said the ashrams were his hospitals, his houses, the place where ''true refuge could be found.'' Now that devotion is called gratitude, I feel hurt to the marrow that maharaji has never once said to me ''Thank you for all your help and hard work and sacrifice.'' No sympathy for him from me. Ever. Perhaps I have developed a hard, unbreakable hull around my figurative heart in order to protect myself from his betrayal. That crusty hull is reserved for Maharaji, fake Lord of the Universe, who betrayed me beyond my wildest conception of betrayal. I am learning what real human love is now that I am free of his bondage. Now that I see through his lies, now that I have proof of his lies, I know that those premies who come here to be distruptive, insulting, and cruel are caught in that lie. They cannot have compassion for us, that, in cult programed minds would be a betrayal of maharaji. Premies are trained to be like their master, but beneath him.. Those who have come here emulate his behavior: cruel, manipulating and ignorant. They can't understand the cult exiting process, the losses we suffered because of our involvement with that charlatan because they are still caught in the web of his deception. I don't excuse it, I understand it though. But I don't excuse it. Why premies feel so desparate to protect maharaji is the last gasp of holding onto a fake God, years of brainwashing. Yet, in the past year, some of these people have done great damage to you and others here by using their various evil devices (CAC, hacking, etc.) not only to discredit, but to personally harm you. I have no sympathy for the likes of these deluded indivuals. I have empathy for those who read this forum and EPO, then one by one come here, afraid to post their names because of that intense cult indoctrination, yet take that leap, not of faith, but of the desire to rid themselves of that thick layer of cult brainwashing. They find relief in the welcoming. The layer of deceit begins to unwrap for these new exes, as well as those of us who have been here a while, exposing raw grief. For these people I feel great sympathy and empathy. My understanding of the brainwashing by maharaji of premies is very clear, and yet, there is no excuse for the bad behavior and horrid words posted here in defense of a cult leader who has an extraordinary ability to lie, cheat, steal, and abuse those same followers who support his life's goal. That life's goal is not to be kind, nurturing, humanitarian, or even to reveal the ''Truth,'' rather it is to run a cult family business, using other people's money, people who love him above all else, to fill his personal coffers with a massive amount of cash, and things--expensive things, while he dupes his followers into being so afraid of him they can't even muster the courage to ask him a question--he denies them even that. Sympathy for maharaji? Never. I'm not so good at expressing myself in words here. I look to find a word that describes what Maharaji has done to me personally, to all the ex-premies who have come here to find relief and understanding, and the thousands of premies who have given so much more than he could ever deserve. I cannot find a proper word for what he has done. Maharaji lost a close friend. I wonder if he has the capacity to feel grief and loss. I don't think so. I suspect he is thinking only about himself and what he lost in Sampuranand as another cultist who protected him and advised him about how to further exploit his devotees. Love, Cynthia

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 03:36:12 (EST) From: Jethro Email: None To: Marianne Subject: The triangle is the answer Message:

'And, why do some premies ignore the extraordinary expressions of pain, sorrow, loss and compassion posted here and then rail at us for being insensitive vultures when Sampuranand dies? ' A premie's world is simple. It has ONLY 3 things in it. M,K and last (and by all means least for M) the premie. A premie may only direct his 'human' feelings towards M all others are secondry, if not irrelevant. A classic example of cognitive dissonence. Here's a prime example. One of my (I think now former) friends has had k since 1973(not a PAM). I went to see him some years ago in Australia. His first wife died and had one child with her who is now an adult. He remarried after the ashram closure to another ashramee. This lady is a good few years younger than him and was certainly of child-bearing age. I asked him if he intended to have any children with her(she hadn't any kids). His answer was this, said with a big grin 'Whenever that sweet feeling(a woman's desire to bear children),arises in her, I destroy it'. I should add here that he didn't mean that he beat her up, rather he 'satsanged' her out of that feeling. 'This raises the questions: should we feel sympathy for Rotwat under these circumstances? ' Yes, the same sympathy held for Hitler when he realised his Reich was falling. Take care, Jethro

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 22:46:39 (EST) From: PatD Email: None To: Marianne Subject: Re: Sympathy for the devil? Message:

Of course you can have sympathy for the devil,that's what draws his sting. Does the devil have sympathy....No ,that's what makes him a devil. We can't know Rawat's feelings for the people closest to him, but there's no reason to assume, him being notgod, that they're any different to anyone elses. The devil in all this is his assumption of divinity, & our acceptance of it. I felt sympathy for Gordon Brown (UK Gov.Minister)last week when his newborn baby died. Doesn't mean I'll vote for his party at the next election. The premie who called you Cynthia & Tonette insensitive, feels himself to be part of a family of lurve. Too bad that daddy doesn't give a shit.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 17:18:09 (EST) From: OTS Email: None To: All Subject: Jagdeo's Heavy Hitting Satsang Message:

Was there ever a devotee Babe Ruth amongst us the likes of Jagdeo? No, there wasn’t I mean that man could knock the ball out of the park with his stern discourses night after night like nobody else. He was as serious as a heart attack. And that is no bullshit! If you will return with me to yesteryear (say, late 1974) for just a moment, and think back carefully, I think you all will have to agree that dollar-for-dollar or pound-for-pound the ultimate heavy hitter in the West as far as the nightly droning was none other than that alleged child molester and rapist Mahatma Jagdeo. (Hey, he also cheated at tennis [his line calls were so unfair, it was a joke] . . . but I know this is no laughing matter to Abi, Susan and any of his other silent victims still to this day remaining unidentified but hopefully somehow somewhere healing, if possible). Satsang [again we have two English language pronunciations depending on what side of the Atlantic you were on. For the Americans, it was pronounced like in a broad Midwestern accent like what you do before you put on your shoes = “you put your SOX ON”; but for the British, it was pronounced SAT as in “Excuse me, I just inadvertently SAT on your elbow, I’m sorry,” and SANG as in “I never Sang for My Father”] was all we had on all of our evening calendars. Period. Satsang and that was it. No moves, tv, books or radio; no dinners out, no night classes, no nothing -- just discourse. It was kind of exciting to see who was going to get up and say what night after night after night after night after night after night, year after tear after year after year, I guess. Until we were all shitcanned. Videos of heavily edited Maharaji or nothing. You can all SHUT THE FUCK UP NOW! [Maybe he was right. If it shut up Jagdeo, I’m all for the new policy]. “Satsang,” a lovely word either way you pronounce it -- but now piled upon my trash heap of useless Hindi words I’ve picked up over 30 years. Mahatma Jagdeo used to rail on and on. His satsang was so heavy you could barely look at him head on for the entire time. What with his twisted expressions and screaming pedagogic tools. He’d always ask these loud rhetoric questions, and then give the answer himself. (e.g., “And who is our Savoir, Lord and Perfect Master? . . . pause . . . Guru Maharaji!”) You just hoped that he’d keep it short, say under 40 minutes, but there was no guaranty. Perhaps if he just had a hot shot of chai and the caffeine was rushing through his veins, he’d go on and on and on for near an hour. He could be so heavy and downright scary, that we just prayed and begged in our hearts to Guru Maharaji to please make him stop so we could crawl out of there and go home and have a spot of tea and a thumbs-in-ears lean on the baragon before falling into a hopefully peaceful sleep. Jagdeo’s nightly speeches were downright frightening filled with images of snakes and scorpions, etc. etc. I think you must agree, if you were there, that he was a sick one-of-a-kind. I bring this all up because last night I was speaking with an old ex-PAM friend of mine who sort of just quietly left through the back door about 10 years ago, and he recalled the time when Jagdeo was speaking (ON AND ON) at Room 401 of the Kittridge Building (the International Headquarters of DLM Building) in downtown Denver one night when a semi revolt broke out: About three or four of the production premies (employees of the old Shri Hans Production Company which produced your “And It Is Divine” magazine and “Divine Times” newspaper, etc.), the guys and gals working the microphones and soundboard, just couldn’t take it any longer. They all started singing “JAG DEO. JAG-DAY-AY-AY-O, Daylight Come and I Wanna Go Home! Jag DEO., Jag Day Ay Ay O…” (If you’re under 45 years old, you might not recognize this Grammy award-winning song by Harry Belafonte). Anyway, we laughed and laughed (last night and 28 years ago). This guy was an unbelievable piece of work. It makes me so mad that I ever did one thing for that asshole or ever smiled once back at his crooked smile. And he was sponsored by, coached by, propped up by, shielded by, supported by, given plane tickets by, and loyal to none other than “The Maharaja of Malibu,” and no one else.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 21:32:14 (EST) From: Bai Ji Email: None To: OTS Subject: Off The Scale...Great Post(nt) Message:

[nt]

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 17:32:19 (EST) From: Voyeur Email: None To: OTS Subject: Re: Jagdeo's Heavy Hitting Satsang Message:

Odd isn't it. I thought that I was the only ungrateful premie who thought that about Jagdeo's satsang every night I had to hear him drone on and on in London all those years ago.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 17:30:45 (EST) From: Deborah Email: None To: OTS Subject: Bestest of Forum Message:

Very funny shit you have there. Love that post.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 17:59:06 (EST) From: Marianne Email: None To: Deborah Subject: Keep it coming, OTS Message:

You've got lots to say and it is very enlightening, and very funny. More, more, more. We're waiting for that Journey, which will be very illuminating indeed. Marianne

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 20:50:26 (EST) From: gerry Email: None To: Marianne Subject: that was a beaut, OTS Message:

So OTS is it, huh? How does one pronounce that? Otis? I was kinda partial to Henrietta myself. By any name, that was a fantastic post. Thanks for that and I'm really glad you are here.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 15:32:29 (EST) From: gerry-Alright then it's settled Email: None To: All Subject: Catweasel is persona non grata Message:

And his posts will be deleted as they appear. Also any Cat-like troll posts will be deleted because we can't trust premie trolls like Catweasel to stick with one name. Also, if there are no hearty objections, i'll delete this thread as well as the Catweasel thread and we'll be done with him.

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 03:40:33 (EST) From: janet Email: None To: gerry-Alright then it's settled Subject: i vote yes [nt] Message:

[nt]

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 17:20:15 (EST) From: Marshall Email: None To: gerry-Alright then it's settled Subject: but, what about..... Message:

My only possible objection would be that catweasel and his troll buddies demonstrate the perverted and ruined personality traits that can develop from devoting ones life to the goo. Other than that I find the trolls to be rude, offensive and downright ugly. Ultimately I guess it's up to the webmaster to decide.

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 12:08:34 (EST) From: Francesca :~) Email: None To: Marshall Subject: Marshall - He makes the exes look bad Message:

I've heard this said before, and if you put his posts in a vacuum it would be true. But if an impartial observer who knew none of the people here read some of those threads CW has defecated in, he brings many people right down to his level. If you really examine many exes responses to him, the exes sound pretty awful as well. Right smart he is, and many people have said the same thing you do. I don't buy it. His game is to stink up the Forum so badly that many people, especially fence sitters or even committed exes, will not go near it. I felt the same way the first time I looked at the Forum, several years ago. It was like, 'what the @#*&???' Bests, F

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 12:25:35 (EST) From: JohnT Email: None To: Francesca :~) Subject: You are right, Francesca Message:

At least, I think you are right. When I first came here a couple of years ago, it was a bear pit. There was no way of controlling the trolls and vicious verbal battles were almost inevitable. But it no worse than Slashdot and a lot more interesting, so I got stuck in. But now it does seem that we can trace and out unwanted trolls. The threat of exposure keeps them under control. The forum is much more gentle and civilised and welcoming without the Cult Fundamentalists making trouble. I am sure Cat hates that -- so let's keep it that way! The benefits of displaying the twisted premie mind-set are, in my view, overstated. All the exes here know it already -- and the nevers like me (people who were never involved with the cult) surely know it too, or we would not be battling with the exes to end Rawat's racket. So yeah, a section on EPO to display the lack of clear thinkin' and kind lovin' exhibited by many cult apologists would seem to be all that's needed. We could even agree to preserve the anonimity of its subjects -- provided they leave this place alone, at least until they have (re)discovered how to deal with folk on the level.

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 12:41:22 (EST) From: Marshall Email: None To: JohnT Subject: Re: You are right, Francesca Message:

You guy's are right. I agree with you, Francesca, and Gerry. It's not worth it, we can have a section of premie wisdom on EPO. Let's do it that way, we should really take away any control from these control freak dysfunctionals. John T never a premie...I'm curious did you know about Rotwatts cult before you discovered this forum, or did you just happen upon it and learn all the details thru the ex sites? Marshall

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 12:52:33 (EST) From: Francesca :~) Email: None To: Marshall Subject: Maybe we could have Worst of Forum? Message:

Ha ha. Just a thought. Toad hall? Just thinking up names is pretty funny. I couldn't believe some premie compared Marianne to Osama Bin Laden. When the truth is seen by some cult-washed people as an 'attack' and is 'hate,' what can I say to those people? Bests y'all, ==f

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 19:50:32 (EST) From: gerry Email: None To: Marshall Subject: That's true, marshall Message:

And that's the only reason I hestitate at all. But it seems the downside of letting him post is too much to pay. I'd like to think that I could just ask him to stop posting, and he'd willingly comply, but we'll see. Maybe he will.

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 07:20:54 (EST) From: Sulla Email: None To: gerry Subject: Re: What about his point? Message:

What about Marshall's point?

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 10:14:52 (EST) From: gerry Email: None To: Sulla Subject: Re: What about his point? Message:

Marshall's point of showing the results of Maha worship is indeed a valid one. Perhaps we could have a section on the EPO site dedicated to the 'Sayings of Shri Catweasel.' Or is that too similiar to the imfamous CAC website?

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 13:25:39 (EST) From: Cynthia Email: None To: gerry Subject: Don't Feed the Beast... Message:

Some here are debating about the value of Catweasal's posts. Some are tongue in cheek, some serious suggestions. I've learned, very recently, in my personal life, that feeding the beast is not a good thing. Giving attention to the beast is not a good thing. The beast only comes back for more and more and more until it bites you right in the ass. To reserve precious space on EPO or anywhere for CW would be feeding the beast, IMO. They are voracious, those beasts, and their hunger is almost infinite. Throw CW out, and please, don't give him a space on EPO, it would give him too much satisfaction. My 1/2 cent, Cynthia

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 19:57:45 (EST) From: zelda Email: None To: gerry Subject: Re: That's true, marshall Message:

its probably a hassle- but maybe you could block him and post some his especially nasty messages just for prosperity. he is a good example of what the juju can do to a mind- and it is good to have feature exibits now and then. Z

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 06:21:38 (EST) From: Nigel Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: zelda Subject: LOL! If only... Message:

its probably a hassle- but maybe you could block him and post some his especially nasty messages just for prosperity. he is a good example of what the juju can do to a mind- and it is good to have feature exibits now and then. Z --- If Gerry could do it for prosperity he would certainly be rich by now..;)

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 20:43:22 (EST) From: gerry Email: None To: zelda Subject: Catweasel on Display?? Message:

I like the idea. The Caged Cat Sings we could call it... or Kitty's Litter Box...or Watch out for the Cat Shit in the Corner. The possibilities are endless.

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 12:39:27 (EST) From: cq Email: None To: gerry Subject: or 'look what the cat brought in'? (nt) Message:

or 'look what the cat brought in'?

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 21:26:10 (EST) From: Zelda Email: None To: gerry Subject: Re: Catweasel on Display? Message:

well,his post are museum quality exihibits of a bent mind, and as someone said, they actually further the cause of exs. There have been quite a few inane posts by other people- I like the ones that say that Marmites actions have nothing to do with the experience. I think it would be good to feature some of those somewhere so fence liners can READ and experience the fence in virtual. perhaps a section of his choice posts - and the 'kitty litter box ' - or 'cat and friends gallery' seems appropriate. Hey it would make great a training computer game for exiting prems 'Cult Escape ' or 'Donkey Schlok' or ' Maharaji of the Swamp' 'I know what you did last Festival' (I'll stop now) hope you have kept some of these posts and I also thnk cat should be blocked or allowed one post per thread so the gallery has fresh examples. Z

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 12:26:09 (EST) From: Francesca Email: None To: Zelda Subject: When EPO is back up again Message:

The archives are full of strange stuff. But as I said above, some of the exes responses aren't too lovely either. I've looked in the archives from time to time, so I know what I'm talking about. It's kind of yucky in some places, sometimes, and not just because of CW either. There have been many trolls. Some must have been famous in their own time. Maybe we could have troll hall of fame? But seriously, if someone refuses to have an intelligent conversation, and people continue to try to engage them, the whole thread usually sinks to a strange low. When I first joined the Forum, I was a lot more freewheeling about it, until I read some of those Forum archives and "best of Forums" and saw my own posts in the threads. Things that make ya go Hmmm. Francesca

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 14:20:26 (EST) From: Francesca :~) Email: None To: All Subject: RecentExes: local community news? Message:

I am wondering if any recentEx, fence sitter, or one who is otherwise on a local e-mail or snail mail list has received any news lately from their local communities about ending video programs, and/or Elan Vital shutting down. If you've gotten a letter or e-mail, do post. It's mighty quiet in Rawat's world. --f

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 07:32:39 (EST) From: Sulla Email: None To: Francesca :~) Subject: Re:My premie friend sent or send? me this one. Message:

Hi Francesca, The last one I receive from my premie friend was this one: 'You are most warmly invited to an Introductory Video Event at the Intercontinental Hotel, located in downtown Miami, Mezzanine Theater, 100 Chopin Plaza, on Sunday, January 20, at 6:00 PM. Belkis will speak at this event. Live music will be performed. Videos: 'The Art of Life', The Greatest Companion' and 'Miracle of Existence' This is a wonderful opportunity to invite interested people to an event introducing the possibility of Knowledge. The Satellite Broadcast will follow the Introductory Video Event, at 8:00 PM: Maharaji in Philadelphia, USA – Nov. 19, 2001 On the following Sunday, January 27, 6:00 PM, also at the Intercontinental Hotel, there will be a Learning More Video Event for those people who would like to learn more about the possibility of Knowledge. Videos: 'The Gift of Life', 'Thirst and Contentment' and 'Learning More: What is Knowledge?' The Satellite Broadcast will follow the Introductory Video Event, at 8:00 PM: Maharaji in Phoenix, Arizona USA Nov. 2, 2001 Valet parking will be available for $6 on both January 20th and January 27th.” Thank you, very much Miami Communications Team

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 12:59:30 (EST) From: Francesca :~) Email: None To: Sulla Subject: Thanks Sulla -- the news must not be ... Message:

... the same all over. I think it's good to post from time to time what's actually going on. Thanks! --f

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 16:19:59 (EST) From: MISSY Email: None To: Francesca :~) Subject: Re: RecentExes: local community news? Message:

Sorry. No such luck. No, no no. [If it were only true.] We just got a phonetree type call at home from our local church lady idustriale telling us about the new round of local hotel video events for us to bring new people to. And about the quota of telling a certain amount of people within the year blah blah blah blah blah. . . SAME SHIT DIFFERENT YEAR, I think the express goes. [If you axe me, I think she just badly misses the smell of those freshly laundered hotel/motel white tablecloth linens and the smooth feel under her plams as the wrinkles disappear.] Same old same old

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 16:41:59 (EST) From: JHB Email: None To: MISSY Subject: Quota for Propagation??? Message:

I think I missed my quota during my last 15 years as a premie unless one person in 15 years is sufficient. John the propagator

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 14:49:07 (EST) From: ExP Email: ex_premie@yahoo.com To: Francesca :~) Subject: Re: RecentExes: local community news? Message:

Hi Francesca I am on the various listing for email (and snail mail) from EV here in the UK. Nothing received - last communication was regarding Sampuranand (eh? a couple of days ago now). No more Video? Does this include closing down the Satellite transmissions? Whats the rumours? ExP

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 15:17:48 (EST) From: Francesca Email: None To: ExP Subject: Thanks -- Pat's got it Message:

This is in the US -- there is also some information that various EV posts will be shut down. Don't know if it's the whole octopus or various command centers. We shall see. Some of the tentacles of the beast are perhaps being left to wither and die, and Rawat will emerge via satellite as a tubby televangelist, a teletubby! I'd like to say 'ding dong the witch is dead,' but she may be cackling her butt off on a new broom as we speak. We've already had what may be a hacker's jihad on EPO. --f

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 17:34:36 (EST) From: Deborah Email: None To: Francesca Subject: Teletubby, ha ha Message:

You're right not to second guess the current situation. Very right.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 15:56:26 (EST) From: Maria Email: s_meri@hotmail To: Francesca Subject: Francesca could you email me, ta! Message:

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 14:57:32 (EST) From: PatC Email: None To: ExP Subject: Through the grapevine... Message:

....the only thing that will be left will be the satellite broadcasts. Rawat has now become a televangelist. No doubt they will soon be selling ''Remember to Breath'' watches and begging for donations via TV. The local premies are thrilled that there will no longer be a community. They hate each other.

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 03:51:39 (EST) From: janet Email: None To: PatC Subject: hey pat, would you know Message:

the hindi word for 'hate'? if premie's are lovers, or lovees, and all the premies hate each other now, i think a hindi terms meaning 'hatees' or haters' ought to be instituted. you're our resident yoga scholar. if you don't know, maybe Such does. btw, i laughed out loud involuntarily. 'theyre GLAD the community is dead. they Hate each other'. this needed to be called for what it was, years ago. it's one of the major things that drove me away.

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 04:17:55 (EST) From: PatC Email: None To: janet Subject: The Hindi word for hate Message:

The Hindi nouns for hate are ghrina, baira, droha depending on how bad the hate is. They are all very onomatopoeic words pronounced gutturally as if spitting out phlegm. A ghrini is the worst type of hater. Seriously! ;) Actually Jean-Michel is the Hindi scholar and may correct me if I am wrong. Yes, that hatred drove me away too. It is obvious that premies do not love their neighbors and in fact regard them as rivals for M's love or obstacles in their way. But we're out of it and it's time to party! :) [ English to Hindi Dictionary ]

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 05:17:48 (EST) From: John G Email: None To: PatC Subject: Here's an interesting one Message:

expensive A 1. maha.ngA

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 04:27:03 (EST) From: janet Email: None To: PatC Subject: green with jealousy? Message:

until we get a more exquisitely flavored distinction among the three, i think ghrinie's will do. i think it adequately describes the sort of conniving, jealous, grasping, selfcentered, covetous, envious, manipulative, conscienceless kind of transmogrification of the personality and soul that the once upon a time premies have become. thanks for the references

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 04:31:56 (EST) From: PatC Email: None To: janet Subject: green with jealousy? Yep! ;) [nt] Message:

[nt]

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 04:33:59 (EST) From: PatC Email: None To: PatC Subject: Sorry, green with envy ;) Message:

Envy is even worse than jealousy.

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 04:02:42 (EST) From: Jethro Email: None To: janet Subject: The term premie was Message:

always explained as 'Lovers of..............Maharaji'. I particularly remember m saying this as well as his long-term friend jagdeo. bye for now Jethro

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 20:37:52 (EST) From: Pullaver Email: None To: PatC Subject: Get yer credit cards out . . . Message:

....the only thing that will be left will be the satellite broadcasts. Rawat has now become a televangelist. No doubt they will soon be selling ''Remember to Breath'' watches and begging for donations via TV. The local premies are thrilled that there will no longer be a community. They hate each other. --- Actually, I think the teletubby is going to dispense with the satsang-lite altogether and cut straight to the chase ... selling divine tchotkes as displayed by blonde bimbos

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 20:22:31 (EST) From: McDuck Email: None To: PatC Subject: Re: Through the grapevine... Message:

PatC, if I were still one of Mr Rawat's PR shills, that's the direction I would suggest going. Satellite broadcasts for those who can afford them, a few videos for the rest. No need to leave the comfort of your couch, potatoes! No need to rent out those crappy halls and sit in uncomfortable plastic chairs. Dump EV, sell Amaroo, sell the plane and get a nice helicopter. Dismantle clunky Visions and set the kids up in a garage with a DVD burner. Sell K-Lite DVDs over internet. Visit your premie friends in LA now and again for a nice buzz. Get selected for Oprah's Master of the Month Club. The medium is the master.

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 03:15:26 (EST) From: PatC Email: None To: McDuck Subject: That's the letter I sent Rawat Message:

About 18 months ago or soon after the first world-wide satellite broadcast, when I was at my wits end with EV, (on whom I blamed everything that was wrong about the cult before realizing that the rot started at the top) I wrote a letter to Rawat outlining how to get rid of the cult and bring his message straight ''from heart to heart'' (Yuk!) using the satellite broadcasts, get rid of the deadwood bureaucrats who constitute EV etc. Maybe he does read some of his letters.

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 08:28:30 (EST) From: Vicki Email: None To: PatC Subject: Re: That's the letter I sent Rawat Message:

Or some honcho, like Steve Cohen, read your letter, brought up your suggestions at a 'team meeting' as his own, and parlayed himself further into the PAM circle. Oh, I bet Linda and Linda and Sharon are steamed!

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 13:22:31 (EST) From: Vicki Email: None To: All Subject: Let's write the facts Message:

If the facts were laid out, this is how they would appear. Anyone with corrections, please join in. Far off in India, a young boy deems himself to be Satguru. The only fly in the ointment is, the rest of his family want to be as well, but knowing their livlihood depends upon devotion to one deity, they allow the young lad to head up the con. Fast forward...Western hippies arrive on their doorstep in a VW van. Sniffing the possibilities of the western world, young Satguru waits for the opportunity to make a break from school, as being in middle school is terribly dull, for the western world, without the watchful eye of his mama. Once his feet hit the capitalistic ground of the western world, he knows without a doubt, he is home free. After all, they begged and pleaded with him to come, they even paid for his airfare. Yep, nothing like some real devotees to pave the way. Once here, he realizes that without one thin dime, before getting a greencard, he is going to amass a corporate empire, under the guise of spiritual enlightenment, that will span the globe, without paying taxes and without complying to laws at all. How you might ask? One premie at a time, one country at a time. Who's going to do this for him? The premies of course. Why would they do this for him? Because he has convinced them he is the Living Lord and therefore, can say, do and give orders however, and whenever he wants. It's called Agya, get used to it. We did. Our sincere little hearts believed. If any business person today, attempted such a lofty goal, we would laugh them all the way to the IRS. Maharaji setting up ashrams as soon as there were more than two premies, was his first move, after convincing us it was our duty to go out and propogate, tell the world he is here. Not because he really was the Messiah, but because his corporation needed employees. He had no venture capital, he had no collateral, but he had agya. Get out there, get the people convinced, give them knowledge to rope them in and keep them tied, then seduce or browbeat them into sweatshops. Wow! Too easy, all under the radar net of local, state and federal law. And these good little sweatshop employees turned all their hard earned money over to the CEO's coffers, DLM. It was the pint jar on the fireplace mantle, where he and his family could dip in to the tune of millions, anytime they wanted. There were no expenses out of their pockets, the only expenses were covered by more contributions from the loyal little premies. Convincing the devotees that the Satguru came back the king of kings, he needed to have only the very best the world had to offer. And when it wasn't good enough, put the devotees to work improvising. Ah, but it was getting old having to be under the watchful eye of his mother and mahatmas. What would enrage her so greatly that she would leave him alone to amass his fortune and dwelve into the vices of western culture? Yes, marry, of course! Not an Indian girl that she could dominate. Not even a white girl that thought she was the mother of all the universe. No, a savy, worldly, older flight attendant that had lived a little and was not naive. Put her on the pedestal beside him and watch his mom go crazy. Have a child immediatly to seal the deal, and off mamma charged back to India, where she was still queen bee, and determined to get control of the DLM hive. Losing the DLM lawsuit wasn't a big deal. This just gave him an opportunity to create a western version that would be more appealing to mainstream westerners. He was now free to do exactly as he pleased. He could convince those that would see him living a contradictory life, he would simply make them feel special and swear them to secrecy for the priviledge of being around him. All others, he would play them like a yo yo. Thirty years gone by, and it's still working. If we sent this premise to Harvard business school and asked the professors what would the chance of a foreigner coming to the states, and setting up a corporation with no money and free labor, I doubt they could stop laughing long enough to give us an answer. I stick to my theory. We were no more than easy marks for his sweatshop empire. The stock dividends were pirated meditation techniques, and our dues, besides our lives, family, careers, self confidence and hearts, were the chance of the spiritual lifetime: propogation. So the cycle could begin again and continue on, like a small little snowball at the top of hill, rolling down, gathering speed. It eventually turns into the avalanche that destroys everything in it's path. There is hope, it's called spring, when the snow melts. And there's nothing left but mud and puddles. That's what exiting Maharaji's avalanche is like, looking down and seeing that you're standing in muddy water. Nothing more, nothing less. You can then look up and see the majestic mountains, smell the pine trees, hear people in the alpine village laughing, and realize you too can rejoin life. You might be a little shook up from the roaring ride down the mountain, you might not know which way is east or west, north or south, but in a very short time your bearing comes back. You realize you're standing on your very own two feet, and you can walk out of the chaos into the calm of your life.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 16:39:48 (EST) From: Dermot Email: None To: Vicki Subject: How cynical Vicki Message:

......cynical but true:) Amazing...a multi lillion dollar empire by getting people to stick their fingers in their ears and believe you're God in a Bod ....then just the plain old 'Master' when things get hairy! Cheers Dermot

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 15:35:29 (EST) From: The Maharaji of Malibu Email: None To: Vicki Subject: is exposed for what he is-Thank You Message:

a cold, calculating business plan. I don't think it is so unusual though in terms of business plan. It is just a spiritual MLM or network marketing scheme using awareness/happiness or natural buzzzzz as the ultimate goal for those who join. Thanks again-this was well thought out and I wish someone(EV monitor) would have the courage to show this to the malibu maha.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 15:30:51 (EST) From: Chris Email: None To: Vicki Subject: the history not taught within the cult! (nt) Message:

[nt]

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 13:54:25 (EST) From: Steve Mueller Email: None To: Vicki Subject: Re: Let's write the facts Message:

Ah, but it was getting old having to be under the watchful eye of his mother and mahatmas. What would enrage her so greatly that she would leave him alone to amass his fortune and dwelve into the vices of western culture? Yes, marry, of course! --- Maybe you'd consider replacing this with: How to keep mommaji (or anybody else with a mind to) from talking the feds into kicking him back to India where she could dominate him? Why, by marrying an American citizen, of course. Not only would this prevent him from being booted out, but it would have the additional advantage of enraging mommaji so greatly that she would leave him alone to amass his fortune and indulge himself in the vices of western culture. So, total no brainer - marry he must and marry he did. (Just a suggestion)

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 13:48:04 (EST) From: Anandaji Email: None To: Vicki Subject: Re: Let's write the facts Message:

Your essay is wonderful! The question I still have though is: Was he really that smart, or did he have shrewd advisors; and, if so, who were they? The esteemed mahatmas?

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 13:44:07 (EST) From: magiclara Email: None To: Vicki Subject: Brilliant Vicki Message:

I love your posts. The only thing I would add was that he got american citizenship by marrying. Unbelivable when you look at the whole story isn't it. Love Mags

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 13:40:30 (EST) From: Cynthia Email: None To: Vicki Subject: This is a Must Read! Message:

Vicki, You've got it in a nutshell. I love the snowball to avalanche piece. You write well. Thanks.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 13:39:35 (EST) From: Steve Mueller Email: None To: Vicki Subject: Re: Let's write the facts Message:

Excellent! Well done, Vicki! You summed it all up very nicely. Thanks a bunch.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 12:51:19 (EST) From: Joe Email: kevjo@mindspring.com To: All Subject: A Cult Video Review Message:

Attending the North Bay Video Festival at Disculta's last Sunday reminded me of another couple of videos I watched some time ago that were sent to me by a wonderful woman, Dena, who became an ex around the time EPO first got started in 1997. I thought I would reprint this because I had much the same reaction on Sunday. This is Maharaji from the Long Beach event in 1997. The first segment started out with a sequence of a flower (undoubtedly a lotus) opening, first in black and white, and then in color, with schlocky new age music in the background. The rest of the video consisted of shots of clouds and a bird flying and with Maharaji walking, with the video ALWAYS in slow motion and always shot on his back. Occasionally, his squeaky voice would interrupt the music to talk about 'that place,' 'that love,' and 'that joy.' I got the impression that showing him walk in real time would be less 'spiritual,' and it appeared that the back shots were a compromise: his posterior was considered less unflattering than his protruding gut, which did, nevertheless, warrant a side shot near the end. In between, Daya Rawat, his lounge singer daughter, is shown walking near trees singing, in a very somber tone, with a very serious look on her face. That video lasted maybe 15 minutes. If anyone doubts that Maharaji is leading a personality cult, they need only note that he puts out videos like this that are nothing more than an opportunity to oogle him to new-age elevator music. It's so blatant, and it borders on obscene. His 'satsang' video is shot with him sitting on a stage. This is not the Atlanta Training Maharaji. This is more the nice-master Maharaji, No demeaning put-downs of the premies like in the training video, but he does yell at certain points. Speaking-wise, he still talks very, very slowly, and still basically says the same things over and over. For example, he might say: 'That love is within you' (long pause). Then he repeats: 'Within you' (long pause). Then he turns it around: 'It is YOU it is within' (long pause). Then he repeats with another emphasis: 'It is WITHIN you' (long pause). Then he repeats again: 'It is within you ALL the time' (long pause). Repeats: 'ALL the time' (long pause). 'It has never NOT been within you all the time' (long pause). Well, anyway, you get the idea. At each pause, he juts his face towards the audience and his eyes, which are literally just slits and very puffy, protrude somewhat out of their sockets. This goes on for most of his speech and such sequences usually end with the words, rising even higher in pitch: '...and it's so beautiful'. Accordingly, he says very, very, little, very, very, slowly with a lot of pauses, and no 'ums' or 'ahs,' and so what he says sounds profound, or something that might come from 'the Master.' (In this video, he referred to himself as 'The Master'. He did not use the word 'perfect' in connection with 'the master,' but, by using the word 'the' - as opposed to 'a' -he has much the same effect.) He said a total of about twenty or fewer statements throughout his speech, and for each one, he paused, repeated, paused, re-stated, paused, re-emphasized, paused, repeated. That was basically it. That, and talking about the soap operas he used to watch 'every day' until he got bored, and a television commerical he saw for popcorn that refelected, he thought, the false concepts people have about heaven which they get from religions, which he denigrated as the beliefs of dead perfect masters. And that's also how I always remembered him speaking at programs. He apparently learned that speaking process as a young 'perfect master,' or as a 'perfect-master-in-training,' and he appears to have not wavered from it, as far as I can tell. As for the minuscule 'content' in what he says, he still basically says that you experience a 'beautiful place' when you meditate on your breath, and that you should do that as much as possible. But there is apparently a big contradiction here. He says it is extremely easy to do this, and it is so pleasurable and beautiful, but we get easily distracted, even from something so plesurable and beautiful, and so it is very hard to do this. See, it's easy, but it's just so hard. So, we have to turn to 'The Master' to help us. So, therefore, we REALLY need HIM -- (to do WHAT is never really said). He did not say, like he used to all the time, that we should PRAY to him for his 'grace' to be able to do this, but since he didn't otherwise say how HE fit in, except as an object of devotion, I think the praying and grace parts are implied. In fact, he said that one should do this to the exclusion of other things. He said: 'why would people want to get involved with other things when there is something so beautiful inside?' Well, probably because there is other stuff to do. But also, in my experience, Maharaji is a poor example of following this guideline - getting 'involved' in things as petty as soap operas, cars, planes, expensive clothes, flying kites and watching TV. I noticed that what Maharaji used to call all 'devotion,' he now calls 'gratitude.' He used to say that when you receive knowledge from Maharaji, you don't get the COMPLETE and REAL experience until you DEVOTE (and SURRENDER) yourself 100% to him. Only then do you get the COMPLETE experience of the 'so beautiful' knowledge. He even went through a period when he hardly talked about KNOWLEDGE, and only talked about the path of DEVOTION which required SURRENDER to him. Now he says that you receive knowledge from 'The Master' and then you express 'GRATITUDE' (to him) and that gives you a more complete experience of knowledge. The equivalence of these two terms is emphasized by the songs sung to Maharaji by the premies after he finished speaking, which seemed, at points, like it wasn't going to end. It was interesting to see that all but one of the songs premies were singing to him 15 or 20 years ago during his blatant 'devotion and surrender' period. One such song is that One Fountation number that goes: 'please, please, please teach me devotion. Oh Maharaji, please, please, please, I'm ready to start. He is pure and his love is deeper than the ocean... [No problem there, right? :)] Another song is even older, but one word has been changed: the word 'satguru' has been changed to 'maharaji,' apparently in line with the obliteration of the word 'guru' everywhere, including in Mahraji's name. It goes, in part: 'He's our own Maharaji (satguru) and we love him. He is brighter than a thousand seas shining in the sun. He is pure and fresh as the early morning dew. He is lila, lila, and his game has just begun. We are streams flowing down to his ocean. And all we feel for him is pure devotion.' [Hey, no Hindu concepts there, right?:)] So, you get the idea. Maharaji doesn't use the word 'devotion' as much anymore, but there it is numerous times right in the songs his daughter is singing to him. It's still the basic principle of his trip that you don't really get what he offers, unless you have devotion (aka gratitude) to him. Some things don't change, just the window-dressing does. These songs were sung again by Daya Rawat, wearing a very tight-fitting, low cut dress, and singing these love songs to her father. Something about that made me somewhat uncomfortable. Anyone else feel that? Kim, the lead singer of One Foundation, seemed a little miffed that she was relegated to being a back-up singer for Daya, but then Daya probably outranks her, being the daughter of...the Master. Kim did get to sing the lead on 'When Will I Dance With You Again,' that reggae song we also sang to him 20 years ago. She sang for awhile and the premies stood and waived their arms in the air and pleaded with Maharaji to dance, and he acted coy for awhile and then he stood up, threw his hands up in the air, and did a very awkward, 30-second, 'dance.' The premies in the half-empty hall went ape-shit just like they used to. Then he waddled off the stage. A pan of the audience showed some people crying with their faces in their hands. True he didn't wear a crown or krishna costume, and he didn't sit on a throne like he used to (although he still sat in the middle of the stage on a dais, but the chair did not have a high back on it like a throne). He also did not call himself 'perfect' or use words like 'devotion,' (but the songs do) and he didn't say SURRENDER even once, which was a real mantra of his for years. But the basic idea is still the same: 'I am THE MASTER and you are not. You are the devotees and you are somewhat less stupid than most of the rest of the people in the world, who are even more stupid than you because they do not recognize me for what I am, which is THE (only) (PERFECT) MASTER, and you should recognize me, receive knowledge and have ETERNAL GRATITUDE (aka 'devotion') to me, or you will not experience the true, complete, 'so beautiful' love within, inside, you. And, of course, 'gratitude/devotion' can be demonstrated by coming to programs, kissing my feet, buying videos, sending money, and responding to 'fund-raisers' for various things that I want.' I am astounded I ever sat and listened to stuff like that, and I think I only could because I stopped listening and just tried to be 'open to satsang.' It is also astounding that anyone would find anything said in that discourse insightful or inspiring.

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 06:35:55 (EST) From: Tonette Email: None To: Joe Subject: I saw that video too. Message:

My husband went to that program. As usual, when he returned home from his yearly 'fix,' upon my questioning, he couldn't articulate exactly what he got out of attending. The gist of it was that he got renewed enthusiam for practicing K. I think his absolute need to attend at least one event a year was that he felt an obligation to check in for a 'tune up' by the Master himself. As was his habit, he would always purchase videos of programs he attended and I was subjected to viewing this one. I remember alarm bells ringing when I watched this video. It seemed to me that the return to the devotional programming/brainwashing was front and center, clearly more blatently emphasised than I had seen for a long, long time. 'Oh, Oh. Maharaji's at it again.' I thought he wasn't going to do that anymore. 'I wonder what he's really up to? I wonder what he wants?' I pointed this aspect of Maharaji's discourse out to my husband. He just shrugged it off. But it did worry me at the time. I was worried by the possibility of M uping the volumn several notches. 'Don't tell me he's going into the devotional mode again. Man, if he starts having program after program, with stong encouragement for premies to attend as many as possible that's not going to fly in this household.' I wondered just how strong a hold this fat fraud had on my husband. I also for the life of me could not discern how anyone could sit and watch this monotonous crap! I also rememeber my children coming into the room while this shit was on and making them leave the room. I wanted them to maintain the high opinion they have of their father, that would be hard to do after watching even 5 minutes of that drivel. And drivel it was. I also remember quite clearly realizing myself that I was not missing anything by not practicing K. So, maybe it was good that I watched this video. Oh and Daya and her dress! She was around 16 at the time. I thought well, her voice is beautiful that much is true, but how in the world could her mom and dad let her wear a get-up like that in front of an audience. Hasn't anyone told her that her pot belly is showing? The dress did not fit her well at all. It's style was designed for a woman, not a teenage girl and it did very little to compliment her figure. Just my 2 cents and observations. Take care Joe Tonette

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 17:28:20 (EST) From: Kelly Email: None To: Joe Subject: Re: A Cult Video Review Message:

brilliant post Joe, It reminded me of one of the first satellite broadcasts. We were all very excited because Miragey himself had produced it all on his very own by himself! Animation, music, photography...the lot! It was appalling, my friends were amused when I commented afterwards that he shouldn't give up the day job. So risque! There was one scene which showed him walking with Hansi(I think) in the Malibu mansion garden, and it's all soft focus...vaseline on the lens, and of course ...sloow mootion. I thought at the time that if I see another slow motion shot of him walking, I'll throw up. The truth is he does look silly walking for real, in real time, in the flesh. With his little fat belly sticking out in front he has a strange splay legged gait that used to give me a real problem as I stood with the other dewy eyed premies when he went for his evening stroll in the Delhi ashram. My mind would do this crunch...that is my beloved master?? Oh dear! Oh dear! Hey ho, he looks so much better in slow motion! Kelly

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 20:39:33 (EST) From: gerry Email: None To: Kelly Subject: Re: A Cult Video Review Message:

Great analysis, Joe. You have it nailed to the door. These songs were sung again by Daya Rawat, wearing a very tight-fitting, low cut dress, and singing these love songs to her father. Something about that made me somewhat uncomfortable. Anyone else feel that? In 1998, someone (Joy, I think) sent me the Long Beach Birthday video and Patty and I sat on the couch together to watch it. It was really painful and embarrassing in and of itself, but the vibe of Daya singing like a vamp and her father leering at her was enough to make the most liberal guy in the room squirm (or was a conservative then -I can't remember.) Needless to say, Patty thought the whole thing was very weird indeed. She couldn't stand his tonality and thought he was about as boring a 'speaker' as she had ever heard. But I guess she wasn't listening with her heart. :) Anyway, excellent job, that was a powerful post. If that doesn't spell it out to people on the fence, nothing will.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 15:34:32 (EST) From: ExP Email: ex_premie@yahoo.com To: Joe Subject: Skin Condition Message:

Thanks Joe for the brilliant scoop. However I think you may have missed something rather important. Did you notice his skin condition in recent videos/broadcasts? Now I know he is OVER 40 but that does not explain his very (apparent) bad skin condition. All flakey and bubbly? Hey I am no doctor but I wonder (pure speculation tho' - not making any defamatory comment here - did you hear that you legal guys). Sclerosis of the liver symptons? Hey remind me please? What causes sclerosis of the liver? - as I said I am no doctor. ExP

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 04:19:47 (EST) From: janet Email: None To: ExP Subject: Re: i think you mean cirrhosis Message:

the liver becomes hard after years of trying to render massive alcohol intake nontoxic to the body. the liver's major job is to do that. that and to emulsify fats with bile salts. when the liver reaches a point of not being able to detox poisonous substances anymore, the burden spreads to the other organs of elimination, one of which is the skin, and eruptions begin to appear. other organs that get likewise crowded into the burden ar the lungs and breath, the kidneys, all the mucousal membranes, and the colon. between his drinking, his smoking, his weight, his diet, and his temper, he's headed straight for a heart attack, lung cancer, liver cancer, transplant, or just a good old blackout and coma. if it comes while he's flying or driving, the end ought to be spectacular. no lowly bar of soap in the shower for this boyo

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 05:52:38 (EST) From: ExP Email: ex_premie@yahoo.com To: janet Subject: Re: i think you mean cirrhosis Message:

Janet Thanks - as I said I ain't no doctor, you sure seem to be. The picture you paint is horrifying! Hey did you know that the Malibu Goo has his flying medical coming up at the end of Feb this year? (This is public domain data btw). Try the above link and insert parameters (i.e. Rawat, Prem). Due to possible copywrite concerns I am not pasting the results here. ExP [ Pilot Search link ]

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 15:36:10 (EST) From: Joe Email: None To: ExP Subject: Also puffy eyes and lips. Message:

His eyes are literally just slits and his lips look like he got injections in them.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 15:20:04 (EST) From: Dermot Email: None To: Joe Subject: Hilarious Joe Message:

So much in your post cracked me up ....'Lounge singer daughter' ....and your second to last paragraph ...'But the basic idea ....' Fucking hilarious. Cheers Dermot

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 18:00:04 (EST) From: Gina in Atlanta Email: None To: Dermot Subject: Re: Hilarious Joe Message:

And the part about the goober dancing: I did not, probably will not, ever see this video, but I got a visual right out of 'O Brother, Where Art Thou?' from the scene in which the Soggy Bottom Boys are playing at the political rally and the rotund Governor 'Pappy' O'Daniel (Charles Durning) dances out onto the stage, jigging and waddling! Thanks for a good laugh there!

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 17:09:27 (EST) From: berni Email: None To: Dermot Subject: Hey Joe - Stop it ! Message:

I thought I was out but posts such as this drag me back in :) Great but chilling review. berni

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 14:19:25 (EST) From: Anandaji Email: None To: Joe Subject: Re: A Cult Video Review Message:

Joe --- Thank you so much for the brilliant analysis of M's program. It boggles my mind to think that five weeks ago I was in Miami, listening to Daya sing and M speak (yes, now that I think about it, with pauses and repeats, and stuff about Clint Eastwood's 'Make my day'), and even sing himself. And I ate it up! AND, I have to admit this: I was one of those in the audience crying afterwards. And as I was I remember wondering why was I crying and not finding the answer. The woman next to me was sobbing and so were many others. What kind of psychological things were going on to bring me, a 57 year old American football junkie male, to such a point? Can you or anyone explain? It is stupifying how much has happened to me in these five weeks since I fell through the trap door and ended up here. DAMN! I just recalled now in review that he was directing the Clint Eastwood make-my-day example to (drum roll) THE DOUBT MAKERS!!! When he said that I was wondering what he was talking about. Well, NOW I KNOW!! He was directing it at YOU, ya sunzabitches!! And now I ARE one too!! Most interesting five weeks of my life. Previous most interesting: chasing Rajeswar around Minneapolis begging, (ok, groveling) for knowledge.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 15:24:50 (EST) From: Dermot Email: None To: Anandaji Subject: Jeeze Anandaji Message:

One extreme to the other huh? Didn't realise it was just 5 weeks ago that you were sobbing at the feet.....I knew you were recently exited but.... Weird isn't it ....that sobbing.....done a bit of it myself at events... Cheers Dermot

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 14:27:44 (EST) From: housemum Email: None To: Anandaji Subject: nurture your sanity Message:

Dear Anandaji, Congratulations. You must have been ready to exit to sound so lucid here. I think the break can come quickly if you've been nurturing your sanity for a while. Once you get just enough psychological distance to gain perspective of the wacko-cult propaganda, leaving is not only easier, it becomes essential. Trust yourself.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 13:21:18 (EST) From: housemum Email: None To: Joe Subject: Re: A Cult Video Review Message:

Thank you for this review, Joe. It's been so long since I experienced this scene, but your vivid description took me right back to it. I cannot understand how anyone can espouse the current revisionism while still using terms of 'gratitude, lila, purity, love deeper than an ocean.' If one actually believes the revisionism, and isn't just spouting it as the Guru-approved-PR, the psychology of being a follower would require such rigid compartmentalizing. That kind of emotional splitting it very hard to recover from (although we are all examples that it can be done). It is why women who are abused by their partners keep going back, thinking that if they do xy and z, things will get better. I was reading someone's Journey recently, I apologize that I can't remember the author, who said that he had wonderful experiences in meditation which he used to attribute to the grace of the goo, but one day he realized that his experiences were inside him, and had nothing at all to do with Rawat, who claims control over people's insides!!! Remember the soft-porn, S/M movie, 91/2 Weeks when Micky Rourke claims control over the emotional and mental state of Kim Bassinger? She believed it for a while, and when she believed it the eroticism of dominance and control allowed for their steamy S/M relationship. Finally she realized she was GIVING him control, by agreeing with him. And she was free. That's what all this sounds like to me.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 14:47:10 (EST) From: PatC Email: None To: housemum Subject: In ''91/2 Weeks''.... Message:

...and don't forget to get your Doggie Darshan if you have not done so already. [ ''You Too can be Sadgooroo'' ]

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 13:18:48 (EST) From: Cynthia Email: None To: PatC Subject: Doggie Darshan... Message:

Thanks Pat, I always get real darshan pleasure looking at those lovely pixs. :)

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 15:33:06 (EST) From: magiclara Email: None To: PatC Subject: Re: In ''91/2 Weeks''.... Message:

Lovely. Does anyone know where I can find pics of the party at the Latvian club in London?

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 16:39:57 (EST) From: JHB Email: None To: magiclara Subject: Latvian Club pics Message:

Magiclara, You've just stumbled on to the real reason EPO is down - the Latvian Club pics. National security concerns (I can't divulge which nation) meant that the pictures had to be made unavailable. Taking EPO down was the quickest way to do this. John also known as J.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 15:30:34 (EST) From: Dermot Email: None To: PatC Subject: Fucking hell Pat Message:

Triple belly laughs //////laughed as much as when I first saw it. Well worth dragging it out for those who haven't viewed it.....just in case they too wanna be a satgooroo :) Cheers Ddermot

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 15:38:53 (EST) From: PatC Email: None To: Dermot Subject: Nice to have you back, Dermot [nt] Message:

[nt]

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 16:02:50 (EST) From: Marianne Email: None To: PatC Subject: Agree, Pat - nice to see ya, Dermot Message:

How's tricks? Marianne

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 17:43:59 (EST) From: Dermot Email: None To: Marianne Subject: Hey Just emailed you Marianne Message:

then saw your post here :) Yep tricks are fine lass. Cheers Dermot

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 15:19:44 (EST) From: Joe Email: None To: PatC Subject: Now Pat... Message:

It was only for a very brief period that I believed you guys made small Krishna crowns and put them on your dogs' heads. But they look so real, and I figured you would go all the way. :) Joe Whose Dalmatian (Nigel the wonder dog) used to wear doggy antlers at Christmas, but won't anymore.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 15:26:32 (EST) From: PatC Email: None To: Joe Subject: Joe, I dare you.... Message:

Let's go to Halloween dressed as Krishna, crowns, malas, the works. We'll probably be stoned - no not that way.

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 04:37:11 (EST) From: janet Email: None To: PatC Subject: already did it. got arrested too. Message:

got pics of me and carlos harden as krishna and rama that year. if i can find it, i'l get it up so you can all see it. blue skin and everything

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 04:43:46 (EST) From: PatC Email: None To: janet Subject: Have you got a scanner? Message:

Scan it, put in on-line, please. Talking about Carlos - I think he took the advice on First Class email to premies not to post on the net. He's disappeared. If you don't have a scanner, mail it to me. I'll send you my address by email. If you don't have a website, I'll put it on-line for you.

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 05:33:57 (EST) From: janet Email: None To: PatC Subject: Re: scanner? yes, but no pc yet Message:

it's all slowly coming together. we now have a scanner, two printers, two, no- three- video cameras, an old mac II fx... but no pc and no ISP capable of handling both machines yet. any day now. and i have to go find the photos in my storage, too.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 15:06:08 (EST) From: housemum Email: None To: PatC Subject: Beyond Brilliant!!! (nt) Message:

[nt]

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 13:48:28 (EST) From: Vicki Email: None To: housemum Subject: Re: A Cult Video Review Message:

I'm very glad you and the others, watched the Passages video. The reason I say this, I think it is particulary hard to understand newly exiting people's state of mind, unless you see the level of control Maharaji bears over premies via these videos. And there are hundreds and hundreds of them. I'm not kidding. I knew premies who's closets, that were turned into libraries, became too full to handle any more. And they didn't even have all the ones that Visions pumped out. Add to this the number of satellite broadcasts, and well,you get the picture. If you haven't seen Maharaji for years, when he was younger, you can't really get the feel of current pwk's current state of mind. You all understand them, but this allows for even greater understanding and empathy. These videos and broadcasts, and recent events, are a river of indoctrination. It keeps pwk's so tied up, they don't have time to question what's going, on because there's a must see video or broadcast next in line. It's a constant torrent, a very effective tool to keep people ensnared in the con. There's no opposing side to question or even give another point of view. He has the mental market cornered on unsuspecting pwks. The honchos that know what's going on behind the curtain, have to help keep it going or they might have to actually go out and get a real life.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 14:55:02 (EST) From: PatC Email: None To: Vicki Subject: The video river of indoctrination Message:

Excellent Vicki! You've described everything so well. A few days ago I was just thinking to myself that I have been uncultivated for a year now and no longer feel any anger toward Rev Rawat. Then, just as I turned the lights out and started to fall asleep, I remembered this piece of Maharajism which he used a lot throughout the 90s: ''Throughout the history of man NO-ONE, NOBODY has ever saved themselves. You can only be saved by the Master. You are like a fly caught in a spider's web. The more you struggle the more entangled you become. You need that mercy, that kindness of the MASTER TO COME AND GENTLY LIFT YOU OUT.'' Needless to say I got so angry that I woke up fully and thought to myself: ''Damn you, Rawat, for ever saying such hideous paranoia-inducing, mind-fucking crap like that.''

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 21:58:56 (EST) From: Disculta Email: None To: PatC Subject: What current culties have been up to... Message:

Hi Vicki and Pat: Really, Vicki?!! I didn't realize how many 'essential' videos there have been in recent years. Thanks for that piece. I really didn't get it. I can't imagine how awful that is, having just seen one the other day. Talk about being swallowed by the tiger and not being able to find it! Pat: Yes, I know what you mean about the way the anger ebbs and then squirts a bit. That's an awful, sick quote. love Katie Darling

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 07:50:46 (EST) From: Vicki Email: None To: Disculta Subject: Re: What current culties have been up to... Message:

Yep, I'm thinking of auctioning mine off!

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 03:39:49 (EST) From: PatC Email: None To: Disculta Subject: The videos are all alike Message:

Actually I meant to add that the videos all begin to look and sound alike after a while. The Passages and training videos which you saw were a bit different. Mostly there were the swans floating across his slomo walking with Enya-type music vids and then there were the one hour vids of his speeches in different cities around the world. I preferred the latter - not as cheaply condescending. When Andy said he was interested in K I bought a bunch of the one hour videos at a discount and got a free Enjoying Life tee shirt as a bonus. They were all slightly dated videos from previous world tours. While watching vids from speeches spaced a few days or weeks or months apart, I discovered that actually his speeches were loosely scripted. In 1996 he based his speeches on the catch phrase ''Belief is relief.'' His speeches on that year's world tour also contained the same story about the farmer yadda yadda ladu. In 97 it was Krishna and Arjuna and how the real enemy was not people but concepts. IN 98 he invented the ctach phrase ''the doubt maker.'' in 99....oh you get the picture. He is not nearly as spontaneous as premies think he is - ''he speaks from his heart and his words cannot be analysed'' is their favorite mantra. Taurine faeces! He has analysed his own speeches ad nauseam but lacks the intelligence and seriousness (concern?) to do a better job. The man is an idiot albeit a crafty one. OT - Watched a rerun of the Hawaii Real World tonight. I hope you catch the current Chicago show - 10 pm Tues, MTV. Looks even more interesting than the New Orleans one. Oops better talk about this on Chuck's Chit-chat forum. Now people will think that all we do is watch teeny bopper TV. :C) As I said to you by email; ''Can you imagine those kids being interested in gurus?'' They'd ask too damn many annoying questions. Thank goodness.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 12:36:38 (EST) From: Jethro Email: None To: All Subject: A t- break for Brits only OT Message:

EU Directive 0410E: In order to meet the conditions for joining the Single European Currency,all citizens of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland must be made aware that the phrase 'Spending a penny' is NOT to be used after the 31st December 2001 From this date, the correct terminology will be 'Euronating'. Thank you for your attention. > >

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 19:00:52 (EST) From: Joe Email: None To: Jethro Subject: Hey, Jeth a Q for you Message:

Will merchants in England accept Euros? I take it that in Ireland, at least after awhile, only Euros (and not Punts) will be accepted. BTW -- I always thought "spend a penny" was one of the more endearing English sayings. I hope is doesn't go away. Joe Who will be in the British Isles later in a few months, and wonders about having to exhange money.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 21:00:56 (EST) From: Dermot Email: None To: Joe Subject: Not sure Message:

For sure the Euro has been introduced in Eire quite smoothly. On TV tonight I was looking at some shoppers in France being interviewed. Already many were saying they don't miss the Franc .. As for the UK , when the Euro was launched, news reports indicated that many High Street stores and shops will display both prices so people get accustomed to it. Until and unless it's introduced I expect it'll be predominantly Pound Sterling only. Business, big business especially, is eager for the UK to join. As for opinion polls at the moment...the majority are for keeping the Pound (not an overwhelming majority) but the majority also think the Euro is inevitable. I think it's inevitable but not for 2 or 3 years. Some interesting price discrepancies. The other night saw a report about shoppers in France right on the German border crossing over for huge petrol savings etc. Cheers Dermot

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 21:03:26 (EST) From: Joe Email: None To: Dermot Subject: So I take it, Message:

That the merchants in England will accept the Euro. Someone coming from Ireland wouldn't have to convert Euros into pounds, right?

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 09:44:26 (EST) From: JohnT Email: None To: Joe Subject: Re: So I take it, Message:

The short answer is that no-one will have to accept Euros (notes and coins) here. But we are free to choose to do so. In practice this is likely to mean that your big West End stores (for example) will accept Euros, but your corner Newsagent may well not. Doncha just love that ol' British compromise!

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 04:36:28 (EST) From: Nottingham Bunny Email: None To: Joe Subject: Inflated prices OT Message:

Hi Joe, There have been a number of reports of some unscrupulous traders and taxi drivers charging grossly inflated prices in Euros to confused punters. Many are not taking it either, sometimes on principle. Feelings can run high here about tradition; evidenced in the furore over decimalisation, the old blue passport, metrication and even the legal fight for the British sausage! It would be best to stick to the pound for your visit unless you are doing extensive travel in the rest of Europe. Where will you be visiting in the UK? Hope there's time to hook up with you and a gang of exes (or 'post premies' as I prefer to be called) when you are over. We are discussing a potential Latvian do when Marianne is over. We could always have two! Warm regards, Nottingham Bunny

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 21:25:28 (EST) From: Dermot Email: None To: Joe Subject: Re: So I take it, Message:

Hmmm , I don't honestly know. Whether he price displays are just for getting the populace used to the conversion rate. Anyway, I or some one will find out the true picture for you long before you step ashore. Cheers Dermot

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 19:11:38 (EST) From: Marianne Email: None To: Joe Subject: Euros in Ireland-OT Message:

My pals in Ireland tell me everyone is using euros now. Marianne

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 12:51:08 (EST) From: Bryn Email: None To: Jethro Subject: ho ho ho. Mirth! nt Message:

dh

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 11:43:44 (EST) From: gerry Email: None To: All Subject: find ex-premie pages cached on google Message:

Since we are or were under this cowardly hacker attack, most likely promugated by the followers of the Lord hisself, god-n-bod goober El Filamento, please note that all pages are cached on Google.com search engine. [ list of cached pages ]

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 15:11:10 (EST) From: ExP Email: ex_premie@yahoo.com To: gerry Subject: Re: find ex-premie pages cached on google Message:

Gerry Although older you can also find epo on the archive.org site. Advantages are that archive preserves the pages and links thereby giving a coherent 'look & feel' Disadvantages are the slow servers they have and the fact the last time they took a 'snapshot' was Nov. 29,2001 Link as above. all the best ExP [ EPO Nov 29, 2001 ]

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 13:32:28 (EST) From: Julian Email: None To: gerry Subject: Re: find ex-premie pages cached on google Message:

I found this site on the Forums & Websites page. If you click on 'read what my enemies are saying about me' it takes you to a lot of info on Maharaaji. [ Unoffocial Homepage of Maharaji ]

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 12:25:20 (EST) From: housemum Email: None To: gerry Subject: Re: find ex-premie pages cached on google Message:

Bravo! Anyway to get the Google info in the opening paragraph of this Forum and other ex-premie sites so that people who are looking to read it for the first time will know where to go?

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Date: Thurs, Jan 17, 2002 at 11:38:19 (EST) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: All Subject: Nouveau Forum français Message:

Nouveau Forum français Le forum français est maintenant hors du site EPO qui sera bientôt de retour.

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