Oh? You Didn't Know It Could ... -:- Get This Bad? Oh Yeah? It Did. For Me. -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 15:43:15 (EST)

__ magnolia -:- can't help lovin' that man of mine -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 17:53:51 (EST)

__ livia -:- Re: Get This Bad? Oh Yeah? It Did. For Me. -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 17:47:13 (EST)

Moley -:- Such - are you still reading this?? -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 15:24:34 (EST)

gerry -:- the demise of the lil swami -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 15:19:47 (EST)

__ salam -:- Re: the demise of the lil swami -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 17:08:30 (EST)

__ PatD -:- Re: the demise of the lil swami -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 16:12:07 (EST)

__ Moley -:- Re: the demise of the lil swami -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 15:37:42 (EST)

__ PatC -:- Bad boy, suchabanana -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 15:24:35 (EST)

__ __ Cynthia -:- It wasn't obvious to me... -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 15:53:23 (EST)

__ __ __ Livia -:- Re: It wasn't obvious to me... -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 16:31:17 (EST)

__ __ __ __ JohnT -:- He made MrsT cry! -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 16:48:55 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ PatC: LOL, JohnT, ...it did seem -:- a little odd that a chap should die on line -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 17:10:42 (EST)

Francesca -:- Thought for the day :~) -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 14:52:33 (EST)

magiclara -:- How watching a video of rawat made me feel. -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 14:48:58 (EST)

__ Joe -:- I know the feeling -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 18:00:35 (EST)

__ Kev -:- Re: How watching a video of rawat made me feel. -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 16:29:19 (EST)

__ Moley -:- Re: How watching a video of rawat made me feel. -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 15:16:20 (EST)

__ __ magiclara -:- There has been an improvement -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 15:45:01 (EST)

__ __ __ Moley -:- Re: There has been an improvement -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 16:31:46 (EST)

__ PatC -:- Thanks for your report, Mags -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 15:11:03 (EST)

__ __ magiclara -:- Thanks Pat -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 15:56:27 (EST)

Angela -:- Dear God, hold me together here -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 14:48:10 (EST)

__ Steve Mueller -:- Re: Dear God, hold me together here -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 16:15:00 (EST)

__ __ Angela -:- Re: Dear God, hold me together here -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 17:50:15 (EST)

__ Richard -:- Re: Dear God, hold me together here -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 15:15:38 (EST)

__ Moley -:- Re: Dear God, hold me together here -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 15:12:17 (EST)

magiclara -:- -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 14:47:18 (EST)

zoloft -:- Flying lessons -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 14:37:31 (EST)

gerry -:- Oh Horse Whappy, Sucha -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 12:16:00 (EST)

__ Marshall -:- Clarification is called for here. -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 14:22:30 (EST)

__ Mirror -:- Re: Oh Horse Whappy, Sucha -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 14:11:10 (EST)

__ Moley -:- Jesus Gerry - wots goin on? -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 12:23:05 (EST)

__ __ Tonette -:- Me too! OMG! Have a drink too Moley. -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 12:30:30 (EST)

__ __ __ Moley -:- Re: Me too! OMG! Have a drink too Moley. -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 12:45:00 (EST)

__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- I'm with you, Moley and Tonette... -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 13:59:54 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ Moley -:- Love to you too Cynth -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 14:15:31 (EST)

__ __ __ gerry -:- I'm responding on the Forum... -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 12:43:37 (EST)

__ __ __ __ cq -:- Re: I'm responding on the Forum... -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 12:59:25 (EST)

Swami Suchabanana -:- To Everyone, incl. Prempal Rawat: -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 03:44:50 (EST)

__ Dermot -:- Re: To Everyone, incl. Prempal Rawat: -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 17:04:40 (EST)

__ Bai Ji -:- Swamiji,,What do you mean? -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 16:44:47 (EST)

__ Carl -:- Gee, Such, this is sudden sad news -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 14:32:03 (EST)

__ Susan -:- suchabanana -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 14:31:53 (EST)

__ Gregg -:- the speed of light -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 14:15:28 (EST)

__ Chris -:- Re: To Everyone, incl. Prempal Rawat: -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 13:29:11 (EST)

__ Joe -:- Choosing to be optimistic -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 13:22:18 (EST)

__ housemum -:- I love you, Such. (nt) -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 13:18:00 (EST)

__ Maria -:- Such I never knew you, but . . . -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 13:00:25 (EST)

__ Cynthia -:- Dear Suchabanana... -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 12:37:17 (EST)

__ Ulf -:- Re: To Everyone, incl. Prempal Rawat: -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 12:12:56 (EST)

__ wolfie -:- Re: To Everyone, incl. Prempal Rawat: -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 11:55:48 (EST)

__ Jim -:- God, Such! -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 11:53:29 (EST)

__ magiclara -:- Re: To Everyone, incl. Prempal Rawat: -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 11:51:29 (EST)

__ Loaf -:- Oh Suchie.. I didnt even know u were ill :( -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 11:40:56 (EST)

__ Pullaver -:- To Such a Great Soul -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 11:15:54 (EST)

__ __ Richard -:- Say it ain't so Swami Ji -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 11:40:34 (EST)

__ __ __ Moley -:- Such - I'm gonna save your post -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 11:57:08 (EST)

__ bill -:- Re: To Everyone, incl. Prempal Rawat: -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 10:42:59 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ bill, more hobbit than troll -:- I like all your posts Tonette [nt] -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 11:25:13 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Tonette -:- You have one over on me then..... -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 12:23:58 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ bill -:- Re: You have one over on me then..... -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 15:58:42 (EST)

__ JohnT -:- Death, be not proud -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 09:02:17 (EST)

__ the unknown soldier -:- Re: To Everyone, incl. Prempal Rawat: -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 05:28:25 (EST)

__ __ Brian Smith -:- We shall gather at the forum -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 09:27:14 (EST)

__ Tonette -:- I'm really going to miss you. -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 05:09:42 (EST)

__ __ Vicki -:- you bring tears. -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 08:48:29 (EST)

__ __ __ Joy -:- Dear Such (my all-time favorite anon moniker) -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 12:08:50 (EST)

__ __ __ __ Anandaji -:- Peace and lentils -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 13:00:59 (EST)

Sir Dave -:- I won't say it -:- Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 23:07:09 (EST)

__ Roger eDrek -:- Ok, I'll say it - I was brainwashed -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 15:28:31 (EST)

__ Cynthia -:- It's Brainwashing... -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 13:36:38 (EST)

__ __ Joe -:- Great Book/Brainwashing -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 15:58:52 (EST)

__ Joy -:- What an abusive comment! -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 12:26:00 (EST)

__ __ Joe -:- He is probably right, Joy -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 13:30:31 (EST)

__ OTS -:- Re: I won't say it -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 11:54:14 (EST)

__ __ Steve Mueller -:- The correct term is: hogwashing -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 17:10:39 (EST)

__ __ Jim -:- But you just did, OTS -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 11:58:42 (EST)

__ Tonette -:- You got that right -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 10:41:18 (EST)

__ Dermot -:- I'm proud of the fact -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 02:53:54 (EST)

__ PatC -:- But you did and very well said too. -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 02:51:46 (EST)

__ Jethro -:- sad sad sad -:- Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 23:59:40 (EST)

Zoloft -:- the big Bada-Boom -:- Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 23:05:23 (EST)

__ m 2 -:- It could be worse -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 10:36:53 (EST)

__ Jethro -:- Re: the big Bada-Boom -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 00:02:43 (EST)

housemum -:- epo is great! -:- Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 17:41:53 (EST)

__ Gail -:- Where is EPO? -:- Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 18:42:56 (EST)

__ __ JHB -:- See my EPO Mirror Sites thread below -:- Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 18:51:50 (EST)

__ __ __ Gail -:- Thanks and btw -:- Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 19:17:03 (EST)

Lesley -:- The Boy with his Finger in the Dyke -:- Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 16:03:13 (EST)

__ Who? -:- Re: The Boy with his Finger in the Dyke -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 08:31:54 (EST)

__ Idiotproof -:- How trusting we are -:- Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 21:01:38 (EST)

__ __ Lesley -:- Proof of idiocy -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 14:54:34 (EST)

__ __ Tonette -:- You're full of bullshit, get the hell out! -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 09:23:59 (EST)

__ __ Dermot -:- Rubbish -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 03:19:55 (EST)

__ __ janet -:- you're us and we're you -:- Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 23:29:33 (EST)

__ __ PatD -:- Paddle your own canoe... -:- Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 21:49:35 (EST)

__ Bai Ji -:- Re: The Boy with his Finger in the Dyke -:- Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 17:06:06 (EST)

__ __ Lesley -:- Hi Bai Ji -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 16:51:42 (EST)

__ __ __ Bai Ji -:- We'll meet again,,,XXX(nt) -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 17:37:16 (EST)

__ __ Francesca :~) -:- The monkey on my wall -:- Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 19:59:31 (EST)

__ __ __ Mirror -:- Re: The monkey on my wall -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 04:57:11 (EST)

__ __ __ __ Francesca :~) -:- We are each other's ... -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 13:06:23 (EST)

Vicki -:- Cast in Maharaji's Play -:- Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 16:03:09 (EST)

__ PatC -:- Thanks, Vicki, another great post!!! [nt] -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 03:01:01 (EST)

__ janet -:- TAROT--the Devil Card -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 00:03:05 (EST)

Livia -:- access to ex-premie sites -:- Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 15:31:52 (EST)

__ Sir Dave -:- Maharaji watch - here's the link -:- Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 16:41:23 (EST)

__ JHB -:- Re: Maharajiwatch -:- Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 16:06:25 (EST)

__ __ Livia -:- Re: Maharajiwatch -:- Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 17:52:41 (EST)

Nigel -:- Question for ex-PAM's -:- Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 11:09:34 (EST)

__ Disculta -:- the mother of all mid-life crises's -:- Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 15:25:06 (EST)

JHB -:- EPO mirror sites now online -:- Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 09:59:07 (EST)

__ New-Age Redneck -:- Re: EPO mirror sites now online -:- Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 17:46:57 (EST)

__ JHB -:- Re: PayPal - Don't try donating yet! -:- Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 14:13:03 (EST)

__ Joe -:- Question, John -:- Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 12:28:28 (EST)

__ __ JHB -:- Answer, Joe -:- Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 14:05:32 (EST)

__ Tonette -:- Here's my donation....via the forum -:- Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 11:28:54 (EST)

__ __ cq -:- Here's your pictures....via the forum -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 13:27:01 (EST)

__ __ __ Richard -:- What a bunch of loosers -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 13:41:10 (EST)

__ __ Tonette -:- Pay Pal, I'll have our password later today. nt -:- Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 11:37:12 (EST)

__ New-Age Redneck -:- Well done, John! -:- Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 10:05:28 (EST)

Michael Dettmers in 12/2000 -:- Maharaji's sex with premie women -:- Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 23:15:01 (EST)

__ bill -:- Thanks for your honesty on this M D [nt] -:- Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 00:19:50 (EST)

__ Joe -:- Re: Maharaji's sex with premie women -:- Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 23:19:47 (EST)

__ __ Joy -:- Re: Maharaji's sex with premie women -:- Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 01:43:22 (EST)

__ __ __ Disculta -:- Invitation to come out (please read Fran and Joy) -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 03:35:02 (EST)

__ __ Anandaji -:- Re: Maharaji's sex with premie women -:- Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 00:10:26 (EST)

__ __ __ Francesca :~) -:- Fear factor -:- Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 15:27:23 (EST)

__ __ __ Joe -:- Speaking out -:- Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 12:33:12 (EST)

__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Re: Speaking out -:- Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 13:05:21 (EST)

__ __ __ Marshall -:- Re: Maharaji's sex with premie women -:- Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 01:29:44 (EST)

__ __ __ __ JHB -:- One woman did speak out -:- Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 03:42:57 (EST)

Deborah -:- Is the term PAM coined at EPO? -:- Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 22:38:15 (EST)

__ Joe -:- I think so... -:- Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 14:08:08 (EST)

__ __ Richard -:- EPO glossary -:- Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 14:26:06 (EST)

__ __ __ Deborah -:- Spot on Richard -:- Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 21:24:02 (EST)

__ __ __ __ Richard -:- Re: Spot on Richard -:- Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 22:23:20 (EST)

__ __ __ New-Age Redneck -:- You forgot one -:- Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 19:25:43 (EST)

__ __ __ __ Inside Edition -:- One more -:- Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 19:45:24 (EST)

Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 15:43:15 (EST) From: Oh? You Didn't Know It Could ... Email: mistyqm@mn.mediaone.net To: All Subject: Get This Bad? Oh Yeah? It Did. For Me. Message:

A non-premie woman who I'll call Z sent me an email seeking my advice on whether or not she should stay with or dump her premie boyfriend. I responded to her with what I had originally intended to be a private correspondence between her and me. Then, after painfully enduring my wife's rather apathetic reaction when she read it (didn't fizz on her in the least because she has plenty of internet friends now and refuses to try to get back to what we once had), I thought, what the hell, I've got nothing to lose by warning others about just how evil M is and what a horrible, ugly mess one can get into from continuing to follow him. (Pay close attention you premies who are sneaking into EPO - this could happen to you or your spouse). She writes: Hello, I'm dating someone who follows M and I've been so darn frightened and SURE this is all a cult-thing. Now I'm certain after sitting up tonight reading various sites on line. I'd like some help or at least some advice about how to move forward with trying to get my boyfriend some much needed help. But, of course, realizing he's in a steadfast place of denial, that may just be a mute point. He's getting deeper and deeper into it and I want no part of it. I'm quite intuitive and I knew something was amiss right away when we started dating. It just felt 'dark'. Now I know why - or at least I have more visual proof of the dark feeling. I've grown to care very much and truly love this man. His belief in knowledge has only served to keep us apart and it's not at all a tool to make us more connected. It's like he's married to this cult and I've finally heard my inner voice enough about all this - it's not healthy. I just wish there were something I could do. Can you please send me any words of wisdom as someone who used to be involved? This is very important to me. A bit scary also..... I'm even hesitant to write to you, a complete stranger, for help. Something inside is drawing me toward writing to you for help. Thank you, I appreciate anything you can write me as a means of support for myself as I confront him. Much thanks, Z To which I responded to her with: Dear Z, That is really, really tough - being in love with a premie (er, cult victim of the Maharaji variety who refuses to see and admit it). What is really insidious about M's cult is that we really thought - for decades - that we were the real deal, that it was only all those other groups that were cults - not us. I've said on forum seven that it takes a lot (and I mean a LOT) of courage and humility to admit to yourself that you were (pardon the crudeness here) fucked over by a fraudulent little Indian would-be massa (perfect master, Jesus wannabe). (By the way, after I exed two months ago, my wife reminded me that she had told me I was involved in a cult way back in 1994 when I started getting involved again after a thirteen year 'dormancy' but I refused to listen to her (as you say, denial).) Z, I'm going to describe an incident that happened to my wife and me at the height (er, depth) of my brainwashing about seven years ago that may cause you to seriously reconsider whether you really want to continue a serious relationship (or more) with this premie. This is confidential. It's very personal stuff. I would not want this talked about beyond here, certainly not on the net and certainly not with the cult victim. (I don't need any enemies.) I'm sharing it with you because your call for help has touched a been-there-done-that-blew-it-big-time place in me from my past and if sharing this helps to spare you from a lifetime of heartbreak, I'd like to help. About seven years ago I went thru a period of dedication to my meditation at night that I was so committed to that (this is actually true - I'm ashamed to say I actually did this) one night when my wife asked me to come to bed and lay next to her (not even necessarily have sex - just lie next to her), I refused saying that this was my time to be with Maharaji, to meditate. She started pleading. I still refused. She starting crying and moaning, still pleading with me to come to bed with her. I still refused. She then retreated to her bedroom and underwent what I now know to be such a deep level of psychological and emotional trauma that it destroyed any semblance of intimacy that we had ever had before that point. She changed towards me dramatically and permanently. We have not been intimate in any way, since then. For all practical purposes, she has been suffering from (my induced) post-traumatic stress syndrome ever since. She harbors such deep anger and resentment towards me that we can no longer enjoy anything remotely approaching the relaxed, playful sort of fun and humor that we used to. She is very edgy with me. I have to be careful of what I say around her for fear of setting her off. I have suggested our getting some counseling help but she refuses to consider it. Now that I have lost her to the wide circle of friends she has made on the Internet I see no possibility of ever regaining the kind of fun-filled intimacy that we once had. I ruined my married love life forever. My alternatives? Continue as is, living with the enemy so to speak, or divorce her. Divorcing her after twenty years of marriage, with my huge salary and her relatively meager salary would surely plunge both of us very nearly into poverty. We both fear being poor too much to want that - so, we just continue coexisting as peacefully as we can, with her PTS as a constant companion and reminder of how horrid and evil and sick and destructive a cult can be on a marriage. I hate to have to be the bearer of bad news to you but if you value your peace of mind and happiness over fear of feeling a bit of loneliness once in a while, do not pursue this cult victim further. I'm married and, thanks to my stupidity from seven years ago, I also feel quite alone, even lonely at times, right inside my own home with my wife only feet away from me. I can't blame her. I did it to her all by myself. THAT, Z, is how horrible and evil a cult is. It has the potential of (pardon the crudeness here but it emphasizes my point well) of fucking up a person's head so thoroughly that they cannot stop themselves from hurting the one who loves them in the way I hurt my wife. From bitter and sad experience I have learned that there are far worse things in life than being lonely once in awhile. For the sake of your happiness and peace of mind you have to leave this person. And when you break it to him, do so as calmly as you can. Without a show of anger. Do so in a way that defuses the inevitable anger he will feel at being dumped. You don't want to make an enemy of this person either. The words I would use would be something like this: So-and-so, I've given it a lot of thought and I don't feel comfortable continuing my relationship with you. I feel it is in my best interests to just call it off. I don't think it is good for me to continue being friends with you anymore. (Z, not part of what you say to him: the dark feelings of uneasiness you expressed to me are ample reason - no need to mention my advice to you.) I wish you good luck with your life but I can't be part of it any more. Good bye. So, I wish you better luck with your love life than I've had. Good luck. Sincerely, Steve Mueller In order to protect the woman's identity in the event her boyfriend happens to read EPO, I will not say what she ended up deciding to do about it. This is extremely embarrassing for me to tell - for me it comes pretty close to the kind of humiliation that a sex-with-M woman would encounter if she were to decide to reveal her exploits with M. I resisted doing this but ended up doing so in order to (a) help further slong my own healing and exing process (it aint always just playful bantar, jokes and fun stuff) and (b) alert aspirants, other significant others of active premies, and fence-sitting, potential exes of just how bad it can get when you follow M, especially when you do so with the level of fanaticism that I used to. I can only hope they will heed the warning from my (still ongoing) painful and bitter experience.

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 17:53:51 (EST) From: magnolia Email: None To: Oh? You Didn't Know It Could ... Subject: can't help lovin' that man of mine Message:

now, steve: i don't know what the result of your advice to this woman was, but i must take issue with your utterly dire warnings to her. as most regular readers of this forum know, i vent about my pwk every few weeks or so when i feel especially frustrated and have nowhere else to whine (and thank all of you for letting me do so, it is not worth trying to explain about m. to my uninitiated pals just so i can bitch about it to them - y'all understand). anyway, as aggravating as it is to love an old premie, i do not agree that you can tell any stranger, with certainty, that she should break it off with her pwk ASAP. i mean, there are all kinds of lovers-with-issues - alcoholics, manic-depressives, workaholics, unfaithful assholes, general losers, peter pan syndrome cases, pathological liars, thieves, and jehovah's witnesses, you name it. some of them are worth putting up/working with, and many aren't. i love my premie man, and although i catch him sneaking out of bed to go meditate in the living room, although i find visions international videos in the vcr, and although he threatens to run to the next east coast event that he can arrange to take off for, he is a terrific person, and i wouldn't trade him in for brad pitt (wait, on second thought, let me think about... no, brad's a heavy smoker, couldn't take it). steve, love is crazy. z needs to evaluate her relationship, her love, her patience, and have a talk with her man. my pwk and i have yelled, argued, discussed, and found some compromises that kept us together. the stronger we have become as a couple, the weaker his visible connection with m. has become. he may never exit, but our future is looking better all the time. magnolia, who can't help loving that man of mine

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 17:47:13 (EST) From: livia Email: None To: Oh? You Didn't Know It Could ... Subject: Re: Get This Bad? Oh Yeah? It Did. For Me. Message:

A few months ago, a premie friend of mine rang me in extreme distress over the state of her relationship. Her non-premie boyfriend was getting increasingly upset every time she went off to meditate, saying it made him feel incredibly alone and rejected. They didn't live together but this occurred whenever they spent stretches of time together. It all came to a head when they were on holiday, and resulted in a particularly destructive row. My suggestion to her was that if she really couldn't face missing her meditation, she should at least make sure she was particularly loving and reassuring to him afterwards. My non-premie partner (I was a drifting, fence-sitting premie at the time) who knows and is fond of this woman, was in the room at the time, got the drift of the conversation and asked me if he could speak with her. She was happy to hear his view and it was unexpectedly this: 'Your boyfriend's problem is his problem and his problem alone. He should be able to handle you going off to 'tune into your inner self' from time to time if that's an important part of your life.' Actually I was somewhat amazed to hear him say this, as he has always taken an extremely dim view of Maharaji and my own involvement, but not to the extent that he would ever object to me meditating. (We have always tried hard to respect each other's space.) Anyway, this was the response of someone who has always thought Maharaji a fraud but never tried to influence me out of it. In fact, he went on to suggest to my friend that he thought the boyfriend should be looking at his own inability to relax in his own company while she went off to meditate, and should maybe be gently persuaded to examine what could be fear of abandonment originating from issues in his own early childhood. In fact my friend's boyfriend has now come to these conclusions himself and is now considering therapy to deal with those very issues. What I am saying here is this: is it really unreasonable for a premie, or anyone for that matter, to go off and have a quiet time on their own on a regular basis, if they feel that it keeps them sane? What I do think is unreasonable is when a person's devotion to Maharaji makes it truly impossible to love and be genuinely intimate with another human being, and when a premie is fanatical to that degree it would probably be impossible for them to have a normal, functioning relationship with a non-premie or anyone else for that matter. Hence the apparent breakdown so many premie marriages. My friend wasn't fanatical, deeply loved her boyfriend, but just wanted that time out to herself every day to meditate. But having said all that I do appreciate that every situation is unique and what happened in your marriage was truly tragic and it all sounds very heartbreaking. In my own experience, when I was in a relationship with a fanatical premie and I was less fanatical at the time, I do recall feelings of being marginalised, which was certainly unpleasant and could make genuinely intimate relationships with premies very difficult. I also believe that some people use their 'relationship' with Maharaji as a way of avoiding intimacy with real live human beings. I know I have done this myself. I have just reread this and hope to god that I haven't said anything insensitive here. If you feel that I have, please tell me. I probably need to hear it! With warmest wishes, Livia

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 15:24:34 (EST) From: Moley Email: moldy_warp@hotmail.com To: All Subject: Such - are you still reading this?? Message:

I hope you are OK after all these posts. I didn't know you were a musician. So am I. Email me and Nige your address and we'll send you our very first demo CD. I'd like you to hear it. People are confused about what is happening to you. But we care. Can you come back and explain a bit more (or email me). Lots and lots of love to you Moley ********xxxxxx

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 15:19:47 (EST) From: gerry Email: None To: All Subject: the demise of the lil swami Message:

For all you who voted for the figurative 'death' of a 'pen name' win a Quewpie doll and the rest of us can breath a collective sigh of relief. The man behind the Swami Suchabanana is indeed taking a Forum Sabbatical to deal with pressing worldly matters. The rumors of his demise are greatly exaggerated, even though he started the rumors himself... gerry--only slightly pissed and greatly relieved

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 17:08:30 (EST) From: salam Email: None To: gerry Subject: Re: the demise of the lil swami Message:

that what you get when you listen to crap. Yeah yeah I know, I said I was going to post here anymore, how many times was that 30, no 40...........?B)

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 16:12:07 (EST) From: PatD Email: None To: gerry Subject: Re: the demise of the lil swami Message:

you mean he hasn't been given months to live? that was certainly the impressrion I got 20mins ago switching on & reading . This is shit, I enjoy his posts but the bottom line here is trustr that people are telling the truth about themxelves , otherwise we might as well get the crystal balls out . Nice piece of emotional manipulation bananaskin. SHIT.

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 15:37:42 (EST) From: Moley Email: None To: gerry Subject: Re: the demise of the lil swami Message:

Jesus Christ Almighty. I've just read this after posting above. Still - at the very least - Such has done me a favour, by reminding me (however inadvertently!) of the transient nature of life on Earth ( as if there was any other :) ). Moley, intending to suck every last drop out of the fruit of the tree of knowledge (with a small 'k' needless to say!).

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 15:24:35 (EST) From: PatC Email: None To: gerry Subject: Bad boy, suchabanana Message:

Well, duh. It was obvious that the lil swami was just being dramatic - again but he still is very naughty because not everyone has his email and can check with him. Anyway, such, I hope you don't drop all your penpals too just because you're taking a break form the forum. Lots of love to you.

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 15:53:23 (EST) From: Cynthia Email: None To: PatC Subject: It wasn't obvious to me... Message:

Very naughty such...no peas and lentils for a week!

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 16:31:17 (EST) From: Livia Email: None To: Cynthia Subject: Re: It wasn't obvious to me... Message:

Don't know if I dare say this after all the drama, but when I read Such's long goodbye it never occurred for me for a moment that he had ben given weeks/months to live!! Must be something to do with English irony or something, I don't know. Then I read all the heartrending responses and thought 'Oh shit! Must have missed something here!' and started feeling really sad, cos he had seemed such a lovely, warmhearted, preceptive guy. Anyway, phew! Panic over! If you're reading this, Such, have a great sabbatical - you will be much missed. With love, Livia XXX

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 16:48:55 (EST) From: JohnT Email: None To: Livia Subject: He made MrsT cry! Message:

I printed his mahasamadhi off for her. First she knew of him, just the writing did it for her. In retrospect, it did seem a little odd that a chap should die on line, still typing. And then manage a postscript.

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 17:10:42 (EST) From: PatC: LOL, JohnT, ...it did seem Email: None To: JohnT Subject: a little odd that a chap should die on line Message:

........still typing. And then manage a postscript. Maybe such read too much Shakespeare or saw one too many operas. Like Manon Lescaut dying in the deserts of Louisiana; ''Non voglio morire,'' (I don't want to die.) She sings that for 15 minutes, then dies and then rises from the dead for one more scream: ''Non voglio morir'.''

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 14:52:33 (EST) From: Francesca Email: None To: All Subject: Thought for the day :~) Message:

'The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.' (Herbert Spencer) The ultimate result of shielding people from the trials and tribulations of life and taking them into 'Maharaji's world,' is to fill Maharaji's world full of people who are [fill in the blanks]. Think of how you were when you were in the blanks. It's the thought for the day. It is nice to know that every person living can experience love, that every person living can experience peace, can experience fulfillment, and they don't need a Master in order to find their way. They aren't lost. They may meet others and share information, insights and perceptions that will be a catalyst for their own growth. It's part of the human experience. Can you imagine! I responded to the message, 'you're lost and need a Master' with 'oh yes, this is the truth I've been waiting for.' The truth of total self-doubt! The truth of total co-dependence. The truth of ridiculous lies. The truth of making a meditation mountain out of a meditation molehill? What does anyone meditate ON? Something that's there all the time. Does someone necessarily need a 'Master' to sit still, quiet their mind and find it. Hardly. Love, Francesca

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 14:48:58 (EST) From: magiclara Email: None To: All Subject: How watching a video of rawat made me feel. Message:

I have been given a copy of the Atlanta training video, Passages some Indian stuff and the 30th anniversary event in Nottingham. The ex who gave it to me asked me to write a report for the forum so I will attempt to do this. I am laid up with a virus at the moment and am also feeling down. (I get recurring depression anxiety etc.) In the light of being stuck in the house I watched the whole thing as soon as it came. Probably a mistake. I should have stuck to the original plan of watching it with some exes and gin and tonic. I thought I was past being affected by rawat but it made me feel extremely angry. Others have reported on the content of the training video so I won’t give a blow by blow account. I haven’t the stomach for it anyway. Suffice to say he was pompous, self-satisfied, condescending, abusive and readily apportioning blame for the failure of propagation to everyone but himself. I thought it was telling that the event was in a large room and the whole floor is empty. People were pinned up against the wall on three sides of the hall a long way from rawat with this huge empty space in the middle. I have never seen a set up like it. It is almost like there was the important person and everyone is peripheral and mustn’t go near him. It must have felt very strange sitting against the wall far away from M in a room of that size. Most people had to twist their necks to see him when they all could have just been seated in front of him facing straight on. The people looked as though the smiles on their faces were the lid on a scream. One thing about watching this video for me was that I realized that when I had seen M and felt blissed out by his words, a part of me was never comfortable with that. Watching this video I was completely comfortable and had total clarity about my feelings. It is all garbage and his attitude is very unsatisfactory. Passages has been cut down from what I remember and it seemed to end abruptly. I am not sure if some has gone off the end. This was sickly sweet and I was surprised to hear charanand talking about m as the living master and saying that the master is with you always. I thought this was a bit near the god in the bod idea, but I suppose it is ok for him to say it as he was a mahatma, and of course it was them who misled everyone in the first place. The western sycophants were falling over themselves to take the blame for all the Indian concepts etc. It was glaringly obvious that it was a personality cult. They did slip up here and there like being astonished that m stood at the end of the queue for the bathroom in the ashram like everyone else, and was quickly put at the front when anyone realized. Some fella said that he did not think that anyone could have had a better life than he had because he had m and k. The implication being that most of the world is lesser in some way. I had watched this video at Nottingham, whilst briefly being sucked back into the cult and thought it was wonderful. Bear in mind I had spent two days listening to the most hideous drivel from whadamar and the tedious DVD k review. Whilst in my brainnumbed state I thought this video was marvelous and full of great insight. It was in fact a load of revisionist sycophantic bilge. Having said that footage of m in his youth made me see how we were sucked into this. He was quite cute and playful and charismatic. He is so different now but the brainwashing has been done. The video of the 30th anniversary in Nottingham astonished me. I was there in the flesh at this event and find it difficult to believe that this was the talk which sucked me back in and that I thought was marvelous. Looking at it now I was horrified that I could ever fall for that bilge. It showed me very clearly how the cult mindset works and how deeply I was programmed even though I had been away since the 70’s. I only saw him again in recent years because he came to Manchester, which wasn’t far to travel. I had been saved from more indoctrination because of him only coming to the south of England. I was fortunately a bad premie and couldn’t be bothered to travel far to see him. I couldn’t be bothered to listen to the Nottingham video, but made the effort for the sake of reporting back. He is just so ignorant about people’s feelings. As others have said he was particularly condescending when talking about questions people had asked him. When he talks about someone asking him what happens when we die he says in a petulant voice, “ I don’t know” Well that is not what he said before, which I think is on EPO where he goes into great detail about what happens after death. He also arrogantly says that k is unique and no one else can offer it. His ego is remarkable. There is lot’s more stuff that could be dissected but I haven’t the stomach for it. I felt angry. appalled, shaky and sick to my stomach to think that I was ever part of this. This surprised me as I thought I was beyond being affected by this pillock. It scared me a bit as well. I hope I won't always still be affected by the creep. This stuff needs to be watched even though it is hideous. One thing it has definitely made me realize is that I will never go to see him again. I was thinking that, as I have a smart card I might go as a mole as others have done. I now know that I could not do it. Mags

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 18:00:35 (EST) From: Joe Email: None To: magiclara Subject: I know the feeling Message:

Isn't it amazing? That Atlanta Training vid might be the death knell for M. A terrible mistake, as it reveals some of his true nature which he has taken such great pains to hide from most premies. For me, it was like watching a 60-minute car accident. I know the yucky feeling you mentioned, and I think it's fear and self-hatred, really. It brought back the memories of feeling that so often as a premie, always worried that Maharaji might be displeased, but knowing I had no idea what the hell he wanted, but thinking if I tried harder, and was more surrendered, was a "better" devotee, I would know. What a humiliating place to be in! Like Kev said, in the Atlanta video he bitches endlessly about how propagation is supposed to be done right, but giving absolutely no direction as to what that is. It was Kafkaesque, set up so the premie is always wrong and Mahararji never is, and thus, for those who don't run away screaming, making the premies even less trusting of their own feelings and ever more desperately glued to the lotus feet. Maharaji should be horse-whipped and then locked up for a long time for abusing people like that. I love your line about smiles being lids on screams. Those smiles did look a bit 'forced' and I did notice a few people squirming, too. Also, I love the term "bone idle" which isn't used in the states. That always makes me laugh. Joe Who sometimes watches "Keeping Up Appearances" just to hear Daisey describe her husband Onslow as "bone idle" in the most endearing way.

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 16:29:19 (EST) From: Kev Email: kevin@kcornell.fsnet.co.uk To: magiclara Subject: Re: How watching a video of rawat made me feel. Message:

Hi Mags, I too have been sent that vid, sent too me via our good friend Karen. Watched the first half of it today i.e. the Atlanta training video and Passages. What struck me most about the Atlanta training video was just how much lack of respect M showed for his audience. It was like watching a pissed off headmaster telling off the whole school at assembly. At the end of the video you still had no understanding of how he wanted people to do his propagation for him. And I think this was his intention, because that way when things still don’t work on propagation front he can still sit back and not take the reasonability (as usual) and say “see you guys have screwed it up again”. Like you I have one of those horrible smart cards and like you I would never ever use it again not even if I was paid to do so. I have far more better thing to do with my life than to spend a night watching and hearing an over grown pissed off school boy. Love Kev. PS did not realise you are a UK exes, email me if you feel like it.

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 15:16:20 (EST) From: Moley Email: moldy_warp@hotmail.com To: magiclara Subject: Re: How watching a video of rawat made me feel. Message:

So sorry you are feeling a bit freaked. Can I come and watch it with you? (There's safety in numbers - or so they say!) Lots of love ********xxxx

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 15:45:01 (EST) From: magiclara Email: None To: Moley Subject: There has been an improvement Message:

Thanks Moley I feel better now I have ranted about it. Yes we should watch it together with gin. I am not fit for human consumtion at the moment but will hopefully recover soon. Love Mags

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 16:31:46 (EST) From: Moley Email: None To: magiclara Subject: Re: There has been an improvement Message:

Gin - good idea! Well - bugger me - I'm not fit for human consumption either - ask Nige! (who has the tolerance of a saint) - menopause or some equally hideous hormones. Ring me poppet ( 2813493) when you feel up to consumimg humans. xxxxxMoles

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 15:11:03 (EST) From: PatC Email: None To: magiclara Subject: Thanks for your report, Mags Message:

I was quite surprised really by what a great writer you are as I have not seen that side to you before. I'm sorry you were so upset by it but hopefully it will clean some more Maharajism poison out of your system. Lots of love to you, P

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 15:56:27 (EST) From: magiclara Email: None To: PatC Subject: Thanks Pat Message:

Thanks for the compliment. I always got teachers writing on my school reports 'Has the ability but doesn't make the effort' My default setting is basically bone idle, but I will try to do better. I am feeling a bit better now I have ranted about it. I mean I have still got the virus and still feel a bit down but have purged the feelings that I got from watching the vids. I am glad I watched them. Thank heavens this forum and all the wonderful people who post on it is here. Love Mags

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 14:48:10 (EST) From: Angela Email: springfever_1@yahoo.com To: All Subject: Dear God, hold me together here Message:

Folks, I've posted here before, but this is the first time with my real name. And I am scared to death! Feeling like the heavens might fall on me or the nether world open up and swallow me! I'm not an ex, never had knowledge. My dear husband received knowledge 30 years ago. We've been married only since last April. He knows most of my feelings about the creature who calls himself Maharaji. Probaly not the depth of the revulsion and hatred I feel, but maybe a good idea. Rawat has enslaved this brilliant man for 30 years and I am sick of living with a third party in this marriage. Nothing I say to my husband phases him. He only wants to know if I can ''prove'' the terrible things I say about his ''master''. ''Can I prove he is having an affair with Monica?'', ''Have I been in maharaji's bedroom?'' and similiar things. No, obviously, I can't. (And a more revolting thought than being in rawat's bedroom, I truly can't come up with!) I can prove very few of the things I believe in. I can only learn what I can about them and then make my decision. I am asking you all for your help. The only thing that might make my husband look at his ''master'' with opened eyes is unkindness or cruelty to others. I'm only slightly hopeful because his eyes are truly closed when it comes to rawat and his doings. I've read here of rawat's shooting at the rabbits in Amaroo, but I need to know who actually saw him do that. Did they post it anywhere? Is that person here and if so, would you please e-mail me the details. I've read of his cruelty to many people around him, but don't remember details and specifics. Please, if anyone here has accounts or details you know of first hand, will you e-mail them to me at the address I've given. My husband thinks rawat is a wonderful, caring, loving person who really loves him more than anybody else --- me included, I fear. Cruelty and unkindness are things my husband cannot abide. Personally, I think rawat's cruelty is evident. Affairs with other women are unkind in the extreme, both to the women and to his wife. But, that is not good enough for I have no proof! Maybe I am asking for more than it is possible to get. But, again, if anybody has information to help me, I would be very grateful for it. Thanks to all of you.

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 16:15:00 (EST) From: Steve Mueller Email: None To: Angela Subject: Re: Dear God, hold me together here Message:

Congrats to you Angela for having such courage! I've found being non-anonymous (er, would that be like: nymous ?) has accelerated my healing tremendously. Being a male, I wasn't in M's bedroom but, if you will check out my post above, you will see the devastating effect he had in OUR bedroom. Make sure your husband reads my post. Maybe, just maybe it could prove to be a significant drip for him. Best of luck and happiness to you.

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 17:50:15 (EST) From: Angela Email: springfever_1@yahoo.com To: Steve Mueller Subject: Re: Dear God, hold me together here Message:

Steve, I did read it and it made me feel such pain, for many reasons. For your wife. I think I can imagine how she felt and still feels. For you, for I know you thought you were doing what was ''right for you'', and oh, wow, is that an expression I am learning to hate! And for myself, as I can so easily see that happening to me. I hope not, but I'm not so foolish as to try and put myself between rawat and my husband. Not yet, anyway. By that, I don't mean that your wife was foolish, quite the opposite. I think she was exactly right to ask you for what she needed. Somehow, what is ''right for others'' is never a priority. Only what is right for the premie. Rather I mean that for me to ask my husband to forego rawat for me at this point would be foolish. I do konw that rarely, almost never, will I ask my husband for my needs. The risk is too great. To be turned down would devastate me. I'm not ready for that yet. Thank you for the post above. I am going to save it and maybe print it out. Good luck, Steve. P.S. ''non-anonymous'' = ''nymous''? Don't know, but I like it!

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 15:15:38 (EST) From: Richard Email: None To: Angela Subject: Re: Dear God, hold me together here Message:

Angela, The first time I posted under my real name, I was hyperventalating and had sweaty palms for a week. I chalk it up to residual fear from years of programming and my own denial. You have nothing to fear. I've put a link to the Best of Forum pages (temporary address as EPO is being relocated). There are some very revealing posts about M's behavior from those who witnessed it firsthand. I hope that gives you some useful information. As you must know by now, none of the facts matter to those who are truly enchanted with M. As you say, it's all about 'my experience'. Best of luck. Richard [ Best of Forum ]

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 15:12:17 (EST) From: Moley Email: moldy_warp@hotmail.com, To: Angela Subject: Re: Dear God, hold me together here Message:

Angela - My heart goes out to you. Do please email me, if you feel to. I am an ex - and was married to a premie for very many years. I hope I can be of some use to you. Love to you Moley

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 14:47:18 (EST) From: magiclara Email: None To: All Subject: Message:

I have been given a copy of the Atlanta training video, Passages some Indian stuff and the 30th anniversary event in Nottingham. The ex who gave it to me asked me to write a report for the forum so I will attempt to do this. I am laid up with a virus at the moment and am also feeling down. (I get recurring depression anxiety etc.) In the light of being stuck in the house I watched the whole thing as soon as it came. Probably a mistake. I should have stuck to the original plan of watching it with some exes and gin and tonic. I thought I was past being affected by rawat but it made me feel extremely angry. Others have reported on the content of the training video so I won’t give a blow by blow account. I haven’t the stomach for it anyway. Suffice to say he was pompous, self-satisfied, condescending, abusive and readily apportioning blame for the failure of propagation to everyone but himself. I thought it was telling that the event was in a large room and the whole floor is empty. People were pinned up against the wall on three sides of the hall a long way from rawat with this huge empty space in the middle. I have never seen a set up like it. It is almost like there was the important person and everyone is peripheral and mustn’t go near him. It must have felt very strange sitting against the wall far away from M in a room of that size. Most people had to twist their necks to see him when they all could have just been seated in front of him facing straight on. The people looked as though the smiles on their faces were the lid on a scream. One thing about watching this video for me was that I realized that when I had seen M and felt blissed out by his words, a part of me was never comfortable with that. Watching this video I was completely comfortable and had total clarity about my feelings. It is all garbage and his attitude is very unsatisfactory. Passages has been cut down from what I remember and it seemed to end abruptly. I am not sure if some has gone off the end. This was sickly sweet and I was surprised to hear charanand talking about m as the living master and saying that the master is with you always. I thought this was a bit near the god in the bod idea, but I suppose it is ok for him to say it as he was a mahatma, and of course it was them who misled everyone in the first place. The western sycophants were falling over themselves to take the blame for all the Indian concepts etc. It was glaringly obvious that it was a personality cult. They did slip up here and there like being astonished that m stood at the end of the queue for the bathroom in the ashram like everyone else, and was quickly put at the front when anyone realized. Some fella said that he did not think that anyone could have had a better life than he had because he had m and k. The implication being that most of the world is lesser in some way. I had watched this video at Nottingham, whilst briefly being sucked back into the cult and thought it was wonderful. Bear in mind I had spent two days listening to the most hideous drivel from whadamar and the tedious DVD k review. Whilst in my brainnumbed state I thought this video was marvelous and full of great insight. It was in fact a load of revisionist sycophantic bilge. Having said that footage of m in his youth made me see how we were sucked into this. He was quite cute and playful and charismatic. He is so different now but the brainwashing has been done. The video of the 30th anniversary in Nottingham astonished me. I was there in the flesh at this event and find it difficult to believe that this was the talk which sucked me back in and that I thought was marvelous. Looking at it now I was horrified that I could ever fall for that bilge. It showed me very clearly how the cult mindset works and how deeply I was programmed even though I had been away since the 70’s. I only saw him again in recent years because he came to Manchester, which wasn’t far to travel. I had been saved from more indoctrination because of him only coming to the south of England. I was fortunately a bad premie and couldn’t be bothered to travel far to see him. I couldn’t be bothered to listen to the Nottingham video, but made the effort for the sake of reporting back. He is just so ignorant about people’s feelings. As others have said he was particularly condescending when talking about questions people had asked him. When he talks about someone asking him what happens when we die he says in a petulant voice, “ I don’t know” Well that is not what he said before, which I think is on EPO where he goes into great detail about what happens after death. He also arrogantly says that k is unique and no one else can offer it. His ego is remarkable. There is lot’s more stuff that could be dissected but I haven’t the stomach for it. I felt angry. appalled, shaky and sick to my stomach to think that I was ever part of this. This surprised me as I thought I was beyond being affected by this pillock. It scared me a bit as well. I hope I won't always still be affected by the creep. This stuff needs to be watched even though it is hideous. One thing it has definitely made me realize is that I will never go to see him again. I was thinking that, as I have a smart card I might go as a mole as others have done. I now know that I could not do it. Mags

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 14:37:31 (EST) From: zoloft Email: None To: All Subject: Flying lessons Message:

Flying lessons First program. First chance to see Maharj Ji. I was sitting beside a hotel pool in Orlando waiting for the inspiration to join the darshan line that stretched quite a distance from the hotel to the site.. Hours passed until it and by then there was no more line. I ran upstairs to change, ran out the lobby, ran down the empty street, picking up speed as I neared the large empty field with large tents peppered about. People were shouting that Maharaj Ji was about to stop darshan. Gasping for air and pouring sweat, I spotted 2 people running behind each other at full speed towards a tent. The line!!! I ran behind them. Into a food tent. Should have known.Damn South American premies beelining for the leftover tofu burghers. I rushed out and caught a glimpse of some huge pink wooden structure. Maharaj Ji.!!! I ran across the field, with people screaming that he was leaving. I put everything I had into getting to the pink wall, rushed around a corner and just then someone placed their hands in the small of my back and helped me forward. I went airborne. I had flown thousands of miles to see him and now I was flying across where he was, catching a fleeting nanosecond of bleurred toes and some thing orange, probably flowers. I crash-landed on my face in the sand about 10 feet past where he was sitting. The skin on my nose was shredded off and I began to bleed profusely down both cheeks. I got up and stumbled into a vast enclosed area where hundreds of people where dancing in circles, singing and laughing. To this day I remember thinking ' F.. Holy Breath. What I really need are some stitches !!'

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 12:16:00 (EST) From: gerry Email: None To: All Subject: Oh Horse Whappy, Sucha Message:

Mr. Bananaman, At the risk of raising your ire I am posting this missive to chastise you and lighten the burden of our fellow forum inhabitants. First off, unless you very, very recently got some bad news, you ain't dyin'. We all have our little health crosses to bear by the time we reach this age. Most of us continue on for at least a couple more decades. I expect you will, too. Secondly at the risk of total excommunication, I think you suffer from a bipolar condition. I'm not sayin' yer crazy--yer brilliant--but there's a lack of balance I'm seeing here and you are scaring the hell out of a lot of people. Thirdly, it almost looks, from my viewpoint, that you are contemplating hurrying yourself into the light. Not nice, Swamiji. Hie thee to a good MD and get some medical intervention. There is good help out there in the form of meds and counseling that can smooth things out. Lastly, perhaps you are very ill, something you haven't told me, and I think in that case you owe me an explanation with explicit details. gerry--in a stern mood not to be trifled with.

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 14:22:30 (EST) From: Marshall Email: None To: gerry Subject: Clarification is called for here. Message:

I thought very similar thoughts when I read suchabananas post last night. It sounded like veiled suicide threats to me, but then I thought maybe it's a newly discovered terminal illness. Then again there is always the chance it's just an odd way of announcing retirement from the x-forum. Overall, I'm confused about what is exactly going on, and I agree that the proper thing to do is clarify this situation. Right, Suchabanana?

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 14:11:10 (EST) From: Mirror Email: None To: gerry Subject: Re: Oh Horse Whappy, Sucha Message:

Hey. I thought it was just the Swami dying! (You know, the forum persona?) I didn't understand it as any terminal illness of the actual person? But then, I know nothing... Swami Such's posts are great, too bad they're going to die. Mirror

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 12:23:05 (EST) From: Moley Email: None To: gerry Subject: Jesus Gerry - wots goin on? Message:

I'm chain smoking meself into an early grave here! Sorry, probably not the best moment to mention graves. Love Moley

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 12:30:30 (EST) From: Tonette Email: None To: Moley Subject: Me too! OMG! Have a drink too Moley. Message:

You got to be kidding Gerry! Man, that is a dirty trick if it is true on Such's part. I don't believe this! Say, 'it's ain't so' Gerry, Such's post was so sincere and well, whatever. Maybe you should find out for sure before you start a thread like this. I'm with Moley and I'm going to up it one, time for a glass of wine. Gerry, you should be sure before you say what you just did. Fondly, Tonette

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 12:45:00 (EST) From: Moley Email: None To: Tonette Subject: Re: Me too! OMG! Have a drink too Moley. Message:

Yep Tonette - I'll be joining you soon!!! Very wierd stuff sometimes - disembodied words. First of all I thought Such meant he was just leaving the forum, then I twigged. But if Such doesn't mean what he said literally, well he sure does mean SOMETHING by it.

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 13:59:54 (EST) From: Cynthia Email: None To: Moley Subject: I'm with you, Moley and Tonette... Message:

Me nerves are frayed to bits and pieces--what's flippin' going on? I just ran out of smokes and gotta run out for more. I'll have that drink when I return. Love to you both, Cynthia

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 14:15:31 (EST) From: Moley Email: None To: Cynthia Subject: Love to you too Cynth Message:

Spent some time crying. Such is special to me , as everyone here is (cliched as that sounds!). Haven't posted much lately - and when I do today - Christ, I don't know wot the hell is going on. xx

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 12:43:37 (EST) From: gerry Email: None To: Tonette Subject: I'm responding on the Forum... Message:

...because Suchabanana posted so publicly on the forum. My first impulse was to email or call, but I saw the massive outpouring of concern and love here. The love part is fine and I feel the same way. It's the concern, worry and grieving set in place by his post which has me hopping on one foot. I have insight into this matter to which y'all are not privy. Trust me on this one.

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 12:59:25 (EST) From: cq Email: None To: gerry Subject: Re: I'm responding on the Forum... Message:

I HOPE it's not Such telling us he's got some sort of deadly illness that's just about to come to term. And I certainly hope he's not thinking of topping hisself. He bloody well better not be. More likely he's just quitting the Forum in dramatic (though somewhat inconsiderate and tasteless) style. I kept getting flashes of that 'Monty Python and Holy Grail' scene - the 'bring out yer dead' one (see pic. above). (you know, - when the dead plague victims are being dragged out onto a cart for burial. One punter tries to chuck his old father-in-law on, but the bodycollector notices he's not dead yet. 'he will be in a minute' went the line …) [ Graphic Link ]

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 03:44:50 (EST) From: Swami Suchabanana Email: None To: All Subject: To Everyone, incl. Prempal Rawat: Message:

To All My Dear Sisters and Brothers, The time has come for one very silly old swami's mahasamadhi. I stayed here for a purpose, for the sake of others -- who are all - just like you and me. But now, I'm told, I need to start preparing myself for that big EXit -- which we all must make someday. hahaha And I do wish to be prepared, and settle those things which still need to be completed. So, if you all don't mind, I'd like to just say a few simple sincere things: First, to Mr. Mind Maharaji - hehehe - you lil concept-maker, you Massa heart-breaker, a prisoner yourself - but that, I'm sorry, you can not see: Thousands upon thousands of us sincere, guileless human beings came to you and trusted you with our open hearts, and some of us even surrendered big chunks of our lives -- and sacrificed our homes, our families, our health, and/or our careers. When we had precious little, virtually nothing material, nor energy left to give -- in this entire universe -- we still dedicated it to you. We brought countless others to what we misguidedly thought was your 'shelter.' Do you remember? YOU didn't do it. Your devotees did this all hard and menial work. And some of us sacrificed a virtual tithing, when our own families could have been better fed or clothed or sheltered. Do you know the voices and nightmares we have heard and seen? Of crying children, raped girls, broken families, a man wearing a metal plate (in place of part of his skull), and tender hearts everywhere broken into little pieces. For the sake of spreading Peace? Really? REALLY? These are not the visions of 'dogs' or 'creatures', Mister - but JUST like you, Prem Rawat (and your entire family, too) - the cries of most precious and blessed Human Beings. And what did you do, man? You fed at the trough of the altar of these human hearts -- and sucked and bled them dry. Yes, now THAT's what makes 'EX-premies!!' When people were 'surrendering the reins of their lives,' and trusting you -- what did you do then? You BETRAYED Us! Look at everything in this world that you foolishly play with. Who paid the terrible price for these frivolous toys - which will one day turn to dust - just like you?! Do I even Need to answer that question?! ok, well, it was your premies [aka pwks] -- and all these ex-premies HERE. Yes, indeed! But, you are a prisoner of your own delusional upbringing and inculcated concepts, too, and now of your very own making and design, Prempal Singh Rawat. And my sister Marilyn from that Ingraham St. premie house, and your kids, and mistress, too. And your infamous PAM honchos, of course, too -- those few who haven't already left you, that is. And what will be your excuse, one day, when the white-robed figures of light with their backs turned, question You? And remember your mantra: 'No cheat, no deceit?!' Did you truthfully, in your own life, practice what you preached -- to all of us who have ever been your devotees?! What kind of a teacher is that -- who has Not even mastered his or her own lesson plans?! Oh, or was it just 'lila,' or taking us beyond our concepts? But What about basic concepts of human Decency and Honour -- and Truthfulness?! Yet, there was the promise of revelation and fulfillment that was repeated -- 'what you are seeking is within you.' Hey, so why did we ever come to - or feel a need for someone like you? Indeed, was it for this simple instruction of 4 yoga techniques that, as you have admitted, can be found in lots of books? But you added strings -- all attached to worshipping yourself and putting other human beings beneath you. Using people like objects - for your very own pleasures, too. Was there ever some magical connection and superstitious transmission at the time of initiation? Hey, if you can receive Knowledge now from an electric CD player or a video cassette recorder -- then, I guess that's your Real GURU! hahaha Or, is it the electric utility company? hahahahahaha! No, it is the individual's Own sincerity, effort, humility and openness that provides the awareness of any experience within, of one's very own universal life energy -- the secret silent space where any devotion truly belongs. Speaking of one's own universal life energy -- who can claim ownership, mister? Not you. If you show a baby the sun outside, does that make you the owner of the sun, too? If you know something worthwhile and pass it along -- you are merely a custodian, a messenger, and sometimes even a teacher. But a teacher should always be a good role model -- and practice what the teacher is preaching to others. Walk that walk - for it is said that talk is cheap! No, most sadly, you have failed us. But, we have all fallen short, yes -- and We All have sinned, too. But there are some among us who are consciously trying, each day, to do better in our lives - in each small way. And we truly ask forgiveness from those whom we have ever hurt or offended, and we likewise forgive, too. [here on the forum, also. I too am sorry, dear friends. I hope you will not judge me harshly - now, or when I am gone.] But where are Your apologies, sir - to all the wounded hearts, of those whom you betrayed? When did you first begin to practice that cheat and deceit? Or, are you so deluded? At every moment, there are choices to be made. Right and wrong, effort or sloth, constructive or destructive, altruistic or selfish, harmful or harmless, etc. But What choices - oh, so-called master - did you yourself make? Our role model of 'perfection?' If all these many testimonial reports are true: Harboring and aiding would-be assassins, lying and fleeing from vehicular manslaughter, defiling your conjugal bed, and embracing a selfish conceit and gross addiction to materialism that often showed little concern for the plight of others - your own devotees. Yes, I have sinned, too. And I was, and am, most deeply ashamed - in the face of my own inner Light. I have wept bitter tears for my own mistakes and transgressions. By when will you - Ever? And when will you face the truth? At that last moment -- or later? I can not judge -- for as you once personally told me (as a teenager) - don't judge each other - for we are all brothers a and sisters. But also - don't judge yourself - for you are somebody, too. No, rather let us all AWAKE now - each and every one. And let us find solace in the shelter of genuine human compassion, kindness, and understanding - regardless of any other beliefs or philosophies. Now, who has sent me to deliver this message, Mr. Prempal? Well - the spirits of the True swamis -- and the same power which enlightened the guru of your very own guru, too. But I am just a filthy, lowly person. And I have my own accounts to balance on these scales, as well. I pray for forgiveness and understanding, myself. And with however many breaths I still have left -- I shall endeavor to make peace, and make amends. But I do keep stumbling, and sometimes even fall down. And then, it becomes an effort sometimes to wipe the dust and dirt off this cloth dhoti - and to stand on one's own two feet -- which we must do, time and time again! And I pray: that I may never lose my way again - in this world, or if there is any world to come! So, dear brothers and sisters, it is almost my time to leave. Please, my lil stupid ego would hope you all would think kindly. But to those I have chastised [even you Maharaji), or ever gotten into a famous ladu-slinging session - I only thought to do it for instruction [and, yes, sometimes digressed, reacting like a fool (for I am most fallible and human, too). I have often been a fool, yes -- when looking in the mirror of truth in life. I see my mirror - not just within - but in those mirrors of others' faces, and in their eyes. But I hope we have been truly learning something here -- that will better and benefit everybody concerned, or so affected. Please, let us help each other -- with empathy. Verily, evil is the absence of empathy -- for those other created beings, and for this very creation, which is Not of Our making. Believe and follow the paths of your own true selves, as you will, and as you yourself have chosen. For your path will surely be a little different from others - and nobody else is going to walk in your shoes. But let us try and respect each other. For our spirits, our entities, are all the same and equal in the glimmer of the eyes of infinity. We can not therefore honestly place ourselves above. or below. the same created beings as ourselves -- except in kindness or humility. For we can each learn something new from each other -- as we have all been doing here. It's true. And whenever we come to a fork on our paths, my advice (from worn-out sandal-tested treads and road experience) is: do Not take the easy, low road. Take the High Road!! It leads to one's own personal redemption - without bitterness or regret or bad karma [hehe], in the end. [I should have been a preacher -- haha -- like my grandfather in heaven, bless him. But I have fallen short, and now must use this time well -- and settle these worldly affairs, and make amends, and do my own anonymous secret devotions.] Was this life worth it? I sure hope so. It has been - for me, now, at long last - at long last, finally! ...ok then, da lil banana watch says the grains of time are slowly expiring, for me here: Blessed are the peacemakers. And Blessed are those who are pure of heart, and mind, and body. Bless all those who suffer. Please fill our hearts with that true nectar -- of loving kindness and compassion - for each other. I LOVE YOU ALL I LOVE YOU ALL Peace and lentils, da lil swami [aka an imperfect devotee, and a rotten teacher, too. hahaha] P.S. And if we should ever meet again, I hope to do much better next time - although I was often hoping for a final release this lifetime - or sometime soon [hoho]. But, how can I find my comfort in any supposed heaven -- when I can still hear the cries of other human beings who are suffering?! Such is my nature. btw, If the Spirit of Such should ever hover near here again, I hope you won't mind my silly or stupid company. For I love dearly this fellowship - this company of Truth!!! ...into the Light of understanding, into the Light of truth, into the Light of ultimate peace - free - free at last! Thank God, Almighty! Thank GOD, ALMIGHTY! FREE, AT LAST!!! my LOL [= Lots of Love!]...

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 17:04:40 (EST) From: Dermot Email: None To: Swami Suchabanana Subject: Re: To Everyone, incl. Prempal Rawat: Message:

Take Care and Take it easy Such. You've produced some brillaint and insightful posts in your time and have really and truly helped a lot of people as a result. Sure will be missed .....but whatever you have to face, I'm sure you'll face it wisely. Cheers Such Dermot

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 16:44:47 (EST) From: Bai Ji Email: None To: Swami Suchabanana Subject: Swamiji,,What do you mean? Message:

Are you physically ill or are you leaving the Forum for a while? Your post moved me to tears and its only 6.30 am. Your insights have helped me so much in the short time i have been reading here. I will feel your absence greatly. If you are ill, then you have so much love and support here i know. It seems many of us have been physically used up to the point of exhaustion, Mentally, Emotionally and Spiritually by the pursuit of bhakti at m's feet. I have been fighting recent feelings of having cancer lately, i am so depressed and tired. This needs to be checked by practical tests and i need to start taking care of myself as for the last 30 years, i always put myself at the end of the Importance list. Maybe for you it is the same, I don't know....I hope I'm not being rude or presumptuous by responding like this. It is strange feeling care and concern for someone I don't even know except through their expression of writing here. Yes..this is the Company of Truth, brave,scared,fallible little human beings, who long to rise to our noblest fulfilment. Even though we were led astray, that longing prevails. Dear SuchabananaSwamiJi. Please be OK May Peas & Lentils and all things Leguminous be on you. Your sister Bai Ji XXXX

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 14:32:03 (EST) From: Carl Email: None To: Swami Suchabanana Subject: Gee, Such, this is sudden sad news Message:

Along with untold other lurkers I gained insight and delight from your irreverent wit. You surely helped put the perspective and humor back into an otherwise troubling -- and for many, an anguishing -- extrication from the psychic clutches of culthood. But call me slow, a question remains: Are you actually, physically, imminently dying, as Pia did recently? Or have you merely tired of the whole forum reading and posting routine under the 'Swami' persona? Either way, you will be missed, big time. You've made a huge difference in the understanding of many people, judging by the interactions over these several years. I hope you are well, or will get well in the best and fastest way possible. Carl P.S.: Great post, as always. I'll be saving it for sure.

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 14:31:53 (EST) From: Susan Email: None To: Swami Suchabanana Subject: suchabanana Message:

I read this and worry you are dying or going to hurt yourself. Maybe your meaning meant to be clear but it isn't. A lot of what you wrote was very touching and important. But could you do a kindness to those of us who worry about anonymous souls on the net and clarify exactly what kind of exit you are making. It could reassure some of us net friends if it isn't as bad as it sounds.

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 14:15:28 (EST) From: Gregg Email: binduesque@yahoo.com To: Swami Suchabanana Subject: the speed of light Message:

Thank you for all you've said on this forum over the two or three years I've been hanging out here. Your voice is your own voice; but I've heard the voice of others through yours - the voice of those who've always been with us to remind us about awareness and compassion. I do regret that I never got a chance to hear your music or play some tunes with you. But such is life, Such, as you know...fleeting and beautiful. Gregg

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 13:29:11 (EST) From: Chris Email: None To: Swami Suchabanana Subject: Re: To Everyone, incl. Prempal Rawat: Message:

Peace and lentils, I'm another who'll miss your great posts. I wanted to reply to your recent post re how gurus only dish out more concepts, which is right on, and to cheer you on in the concept-fighting war, so I'm saying it now! And your wonderful post from December reminding me to be kind to myself always and to indulge all the little pleasures I can from life whenever I can, because as you know, life sure is short! Cheers to you, da lil swami :) Chris Concept Catcher & Capsizer

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 13:22:18 (EST) From: Joe Email: None To: Swami Suchabanana Subject: Choosing to be optimistic Message:

Hey Such, being an optimistic person, I'm assuming you are leaving the Forum for awhile, or maybe even permanently, but that you will still be around being the creative person you are. Your brilliant mind and ability to turn a phrase will be missed. [I have to say, the only thing I didn't like was your mimicking of black slave lingo, but that might just be my bleeding-heart liberal sensitivities. Liberals are supposed to worry and moan about that stuff, you know.:)] But before you go into other endeavors, hopefully something on the creative side that will use your talents, why don't you tell us who you are? I have wondered about that.

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 13:18:00 (EST) From: housemum Email: None To: Swami Suchabanana Subject: I love you, Such. (nt) Message:

[nt]

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 13:00:25 (EST) From: Maria Email: None To: Swami Suchabanana Subject: Such I never knew you, but . . . Message:

your words and wisdom were the greatest, I love you too sweet dear brother hugs and love Maria

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 12:37:17 (EST) From: Cynthia Email: None To: Swami Suchabanana Subject: Dear Suchabanana... Message:

To say I am so sorry are empty words but it's how I feel. Of all the good men I've met on this cyber-ride, you have imparted so much wisdom and strength, humor and insight. I thank you for that. We've even fought and made up, a sign of true brother and sister. I will miss you very much. I hope you're not too afraid, Such. I hope you don't have to suffer to much pain. Aw, Such, this news has flattened me, but I know you wouldn't want that. So I cry my tears for you, I send my prayers up for your beautiful soul. Goodbye, Sweet Swami Suchabanana, peas and lentils, too Love, Cynthia

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 12:12:56 (EST) From: Ulf Email: None To: Swami Suchabanana Subject: Re: To Everyone, incl. Prempal Rawat: Message:

Dear such Reading your post ,i feel so sorry , i cannot say much . But i would , want you to know, that you have my deepest respect you are my true brother. I am sorry that i once was giving you some hard words It was all a part of my own deprogramming ,, see ? And this time , for sure, i would love to invite you , to go fishing with me Regards and love Ulf

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 11:55:48 (EST) From: wolfie Email: None To: Swami Suchabanana Subject: Re: To Everyone, incl. Prempal Rawat: Message:

Hi Swami, is it a joke or is it blue and true? If it's a joke I would like to have you as a friend and if it is a fact I will remember you when it's time for me to go and many times when I sing my song. your brother eating lentils.................wolfie.....love you

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 11:53:29 (EST) From: Jim Email: None To: Swami Suchabanana Subject: God, Such! Message:

Are you really that ill? God, man, I'm so sorry. You and I sparked a bit when you first started posting but, over time, I grew to respect you so much. I was so much hoping to meet you in the flesh one day, maybe even play a little music. Such, please, if you're feeling up to it, I'd at least like to talk to you sometime. At your pleasure, of course. If you feel like it. If you want, you could send me your number: jimheller@shaw.ca Mine's (250) 360-1040 ... I call forward to the office during the day and take it off at night. Please, if you do call and have to leave a message, just tell the receptionist it's Suchabanana. That'll work. :) Love and respect, Peas and lentils, Jim

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 11:51:29 (EST) From: magiclara Email: None To: Swami Suchabanana Subject: Re: To Everyone, incl. Prempal Rawat: Message:

Hi Such Your post made me cry. It is sad but really lovely. I am so sorry to hear your news. Your posts have made me laugh and cheered me up when I felt weighed down by the exiting process. Love Mags

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 11:40:56 (EST) From: Loaf Email: None To: Swami Suchabanana Subject: Oh Suchie.. I didnt even know u were ill :( Message:

I am so sorry and so happy to have met you here Love and light A sad Loafie xxx

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 11:15:54 (EST) From: Pullaver Email: pullaver@yahoo.ca To: Swami Suchabanana Subject: To Such a Great Soul Message:

Dear Such, You have consistently amazed me and touched me with your great wit, humour and heart over the past eight months that I have been 'witnessing' here at the forum. It's obvious that you are a man of many talents and gifts, not the least of which, is your elegant, poignant writing skills. Your relentless, creative missives skewering, parodying, and revealing the cheat and deceit of the man behind the perfect master curtain will continue to educate and illumninate. I will lobby JHB to create a spot on EPO where your posts will live on to inspire and warn others in perpetuity. Please e-mail me at the above address. Much love and affection, Pullaver

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 11:40:34 (EST) From: Richard Email: None To: Pullaver Subject: Say it ain't so Swami Ji Message:

What an amazing post, Such. I am stunned to say the least. At first I hoped you were doing a theater piece a la comedian Andy Kaufman who faked his demise as a publicity stunt. I can tell from the intensity of your post that it is for real. This and your other recent posts carry an insistant urgency that cannot be ignored. I agree with Pullaver that your posts need their own spot on EPO. From the big-ning, you have told it like it is with so much passion and humor. You have proven without a doubt that when the king can't laugh at himself to preserve his own humanity and save his kingdom, the court jester must show everyone how to laugh at the king. Your writing and forum personna are unique in all the world. Love you, Richard

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 11:57:08 (EST) From: Moley Email: moldy_warp@hotmail.com To: Richard Subject: Such - I'm gonna save your post Message:

forever. I LOVE YOU TOO. I agree totally with Richard and Pullaver. I don't know what else to say... words an' all - kinda inadequate. Not really taken it in. I'll remember forever your recipes (got some on my PC), and your peace and lentils, and, most of all, YOU. Email me if you like.I would like. But, no worries, if you don't. Goodbye, for now, dear Such, All my love Moley

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 10:42:59 (EST) From: bill Email: None To: Swami Suchabanana Subject: Re: To Everyone, incl. Prempal Rawat: Message:

Are you going to move to the sat chit chat forum that is linked above? Your typing fingers are going to drag you back to the keyboard and you might as well let us continue to read your evil rants. bytheway,thatwasquiteapostsuchie.

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 11:25:13 (EST) From: bill, more hobbit than troll Email: None To: Tonette Subject: I like all your posts Tonette [nt] Message:

[nt]

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 12:23:58 (EST) From: Tonette Email: None To: bill, more hobbit than troll Subject: You have one over on me then..... Message:

About half of the time, when I re-read my posts, I think, 'How in the hell could you write that?' So you have one better on me Bill in that you like my posts and you are perhaps being too kind. Some of my posts are rambling, emotional outbursts, IMO. Anyway, thanks for forgiving me for my snafu. I guess I'm feeling a little protective of Such. Take care, Fondly, Tonette

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 15:58:42 (EST) From: bill Email: None To: Tonette Subject: Re: You have one over on me then..... Message:

Hey Tonette, you only have to go to the early forum archives to see loads of delerious posts that were never as clear and honest as any of your possibly 'rambling, emotional outbursts' as you said. Your posts are always genuine and that makes them very readable. We all should avoid rereading our posts much, the author is the hardest critic quite often!

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 09:02:17 (EST) From: JohnT Email: None To: Swami Suchabanana Subject: Death, be not proud Message:

This is one of John Donne's (1572 - 1631) Holy Sonnets. Never have the words Soonest with thee our best men do go hit me so hard. I'm sorry Such. Death, be not proud, though some have called thee Mighty and dreadful, for thou art not so; For those whom thou think'st thou dost overthrow, Die not, poor Death, nor yet canst thou kill me. From rest and sleep, which but thy pictures be, Much pleasure; then from thee much more must flow, And soonest our best men with thee do go, Rest of their bones, and soul's delivery. Thou art slave to fate, chance, kings, and desperate men, And dost with poison, war, and sickness dwell; And poppy or charms can make us sleep as well And better than thy stroke; why swell'st thou then? One short sleep past, we wake eternally, And death shall be no more; Death, thou shalt die. Posted by JohnT - never a premie

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 05:28:25 (EST) From: the unknown soldier Email: None To: Swami Suchabanana Subject: Re: To Everyone, incl. Prempal Rawat: Message:

may god bless you and if ya meet brother jimi up there ask him to play purple haze once again for all of us...

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 09:27:14 (EST) From: Brian Smith Email: None To: the unknown soldier Subject: We shall gather at the forum Message:

Thanks for the nice touch Swami such. If you still find yourself in your body in the near future stop in and impart some Swamizm's on us from time to time. Seriously, that was a fine piece of writing you left us with. Got me to thinking, what was it all for, all these years of involvemnet with the guru. Sit with a handful of meditation techniques for x amount of years and then die, so what does that accomplish. According to the exualted ruler I am not really worthy of realizing the gift. I really do not deserve the experience and I couldn't possibly understand or ever realize it anyway stupid me. The big guy is the only one who is supposed to know what is going on the rest of us will remain forever clueless so don't even bother to ask questions. So really then, what is in it this thing for me????? I guess that leaves me spending my entire life gawking at the guru, wondering how in the hell did he get to be so enlightened, hoping that at the end of it all when I depart this earth he is finally going to show up out of the ethers and personally deliver me to the promised land. That is provided I meet the necessary criteria for being a good devotee, consistently had good seats at the festivals, in other words I sent in ample monies over the years, performed enough selfless service, watched enough video's etc, etc Sounds like a religion to me, a big old heavy concept, another belief system, just a whole new batch of blather and bullshit. Now what was that thing m used to say about surrendering concepts, beliefs, and no need for a new religions? What a sorry joke M turned out to be, his and the self righteous cult members general position on this is that it would all work perfectly if one simply shuts up, never asks questions, never doubts the master, if something feels or looks flaky, its an illusion, a lila, rewrite, revise, justify, do what ever it takes to keep the myth going. It is so sick, sick, sick Get the equivelant of a spiritual lobotomy, I get so disgusted thinking about the time I spent in la la land believing the fantasy. When I was a little boy for a time I believed in Santa Claus, I used to stand in the Santa darshan line, you know the drill. Then I grew up the yeah right!

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 05:09:42 (EST) From: Tonette Email: None To: Swami Suchabanana Subject: I'm really going to miss you. Message:

We never met but I feel as if I know you. You have no ammends to make to me but should take note of how you touched my mind and heart with many of your posts, in a most beautiful way. How many times you made me laugh and now cry. I got more out of reading what you have to say than I ever did listening to Maharaji. I will think of you when I come to this forum and send you a hello. You may not be here on Earth to witness the final curtain call for Maharaji but rest assured, there will always be ex's here to help guide and help premies exit. I think someday the cult will end too. If there's anything I can do for you please call me. 301-229-8650 Love, Tonette

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 08:48:29 (EST) From: Vicki Email: None To: Tonette Subject: you bring tears. Message:

to my heart that fall from my eyes. How can I ever, ever thank you for being here in my darkest of all hours, when I landed on this forum after reading EPO? In those early days, when my world and being fell into a million pieces, you in your kindness, helped picked me up and put me back together. As you, and the seasoned veterans here, have done for countless others. Because of your generosity, relentless quest for truth, countless hours of investigative reporting, facts were uncovered and pieces of the great knowledge puzzle made sense. I wish for you love in abundance, now and forever. Thank you dear, sweet Swami.

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 12:08:50 (EST) From: Joy Email: JoyFenwick@aol.com To: Vicki Subject: Dear Such (my all-time favorite anon moniker) Message:

Although we never met or spoke in person, I feel that you are such a good man and have done so much good here at EPO, by sharing your thoughts and heart with us all. You will be sorely missed, and I agree with some of the others above that there should be a special corner reserved for you on EPO where your best posts (some of which were absolutely stunning) can live and rave on forever. May the TRUE light and love envelop you now and forever. . . A big final cyber hug, Joy

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 13:00:59 (EST) From: Anandaji Email: None To: Joy Subject: Peace and lentils Message:

Dear Swami Suchabanana --- I am a newcomer here and was only beginning to recognize you as a person with a great handle, a wonderful intellect and humor, and finally the signature 'peace and lentils.' I enjoy the writings of Emmanual Swedenborg, who, allegedly entertained angels who escorted him to heaven to see what the truth was about that place. He came back and wrote 17,000 pages about his findings (with a quill and ink!). Basically, he found that: so above as below. If we want to know what heaven is like, just have a look around. In heaven we will find ourselves in one of 'many mansions', one filled with the type of people we have surrounded ourselves with on earth. If, when I die, I do not find myself surrounded with people such as yourself I will be very dissapointed. I am starting to realize that the only place we can ever find God at this level is in a compassionate, egalitarian community, such as we have here. Your message is extraordinary. I found God there. God speed, my beautiful new brother. Peace and lentils. See you later. Anandaji

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Date: Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 23:07:09 (EST) From: Sir Dave Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com To: All Subject: I won't say it Message:

Premies don't know they're in a cult because they'e in it and can't see it from the outside. The cult, the mindset and the belief system has become reality and all outside it is unreality. I know this might sound obvious to people here but after talking to some premies recently, in real life, I've realised they cannot possibly understand how it is to be outside of their set of beliefs which are totally real to them. I really have come to the conclusion that the Maha videos are actually brainwashing people. I've not seen a video since the early eighties. If your'e brainwashed, you won't know it and it will seem perfectly normal. The only way out of being brainwashed is to think for yourself and come to your own independant conclusions. But that cannot happen if you open yourself up to constant brainwashing via video. Maharaji is transposing his beliefs onto premies via videos etc. The only thing is, his ''beliefs'' are not even true held beliefs. He's just making it up. An example: The Maha said recently that there's people half way through a knowledge session who are far more aware and conscious than premies who've been meditating for thirty years. As if he'd ever know. He cannot possibly know what premies are experiencing in meditation, either in the K session or outside it. He'd have to be omnipresent to know that! Maybe he is implying that he is omnipresent, just like he's always done. However, now to me he just comes across as a very cheap charlatan, a backstreet trickster - nothing more. He's transparent once you stop revering him. He's not even subtle in his trickery. Premies everywhere are spouting Maharaji's platitudes and it would be funny if it wasn't so ridiculous. They have not thought up these platitudes for themselves - oh no - they are copied from the Maha. What a waste of talent and emotional and mental ability to spend one's life latching onto someone elses low grade philosophy. But back to the point about Maharaji saying that people in the K session are higher than premies who've been at it for thirty years - this is Maharaji all over: Criticise and belittle - that's the way he operates. Not a very nice person is he. Not just not nice, he's positively dangerous. A complete moron who is meddling with the lives of far superior people. Now that's not a very kind thing for me to say about him is it? So I won't.

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 15:28:31 (EST) From: Roger eDrek Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: Ok, I'll say it - I was brainwashed Message:

I really have come to the conclusion that the Maha videos are actually brainwashing people. I've not seen a video since the early eighties. Interesting. Caught me off guard. Aptly describes the 90's video experience. Same belittling personality worship night after night. Yes, I was getting more and more brainwashed until it became too boring and monotonous to attend any more of them. Indeed, there was guilt and fear when I stopped going, but they were awful.

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 13:36:38 (EST) From: Cynthia Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: It's Brainwashing... Message:

Sir Dave, I'm about 1/4 through the book Snapping. The authors are Flo Conway and Jim Siegelman. If you haven't read it, Dave, you must. It explains the brainwashing process which cults use to recruit new members and the authors did their homework well. Here's an excerpt: In all the world, there is nothing quite so impenetrable as a human mind snapped shut with bliss. No call to reason, no emotional appeal can get through its armor of self-proclaimed joy. We talked with dozens of individuals in this state of mind: cult members, recent est graduates, Born Again Christians, and even some Transcendental Meditators. After a while, it seemed very much like dancing to a broken record. We would ask a question, and the individual would spin round and round in a circle of dogma. If we tried to interrupt, he or she would simply pick right up again or go back to the beginning and start over. Soon we began to realize that what we were watching went much deeper. These people were not simply incapable of carrying on a genuine conversation, they were completely mired in their unthinking, unfeeling, uncomprehending states. Whether cloistered in cults or passing blindly through the world, they were impervious to the pain of parents, spouses, friends, and lovers. How do you reach such people? Is there any way to reunite them with their former personalities and the world around them? Copyright Flo Conway and Jim Siegelman The authors interviewed many ex-cult members, including those from Divine Light Mission as it was called when the book was written. The process of brainwashing is quite similar in all groups. The goal is to subtly and dishonestly feed concepts which appeal to a searcher. The process is to get them to ''snap'' which is the word the authors found most people using, once they bought into the whole scheme, whether it was est, DLM, Moonies, Krishnas. I never felt as if I actually snapped when I entered the cult, but I did feel a snap, when I came out. I became clear, I felt as if a huge weighty fog had been lifted from me. I began to think, feel, and understand that I had been fed a huge bill of goods by maharaji that was very, very wrong. The tools used in cults are repetition, sleep deprivation or fatigue, poor nutrition, fear and guilt. It coldly calculated. Repetition would fit in well here concerning the videos. For old timers, it was definitely all of the above and more. When I finally snapped out of the Maharajism cult, it was because of those videos. I was an old timer. I had been away for years. So much had changed without explanation (what, question the lord?) and I found that the years away had been supplemented with me using my mind to think, work, support myself, and play. There was great fear in the premies when I asked simple questions about the changes. Perhaps I had already partially deprogrammed myself and was on the way to a full exit. I really didn't have that conscious thought, but I started to get angry and to doubt. Maharaji has said that premies can experience ''that magic or grace'' through watching the satellite feeds and videos. He has also said that new people can be brought in by using videos. That's why they are categorized as introductory, wanting to know ''more,'' aspirant videos, and finally when the aspirant is fully engaged, they are allowed to watch the ''for premie only videos.'' They've been hooked in by a process and don't even know that they've entered a personality cult. It's as dangerous as Jim Jones. Reading the book recommended so often by Marianne, Raven was also a stunning revelation that Maharaji is no less dangerous to the minds of people than Jim Jones. And no less capable of injury. Maharaji's comment about new premies' ability to experience, or be as high as, a premie who's been at it for thirty years is meaningless on it's face--dangerous to newcomers and those who have struggled for years. Meaningless because it's untrue. Maharaji is a liar. Maharaji is a fraud who is so wrapped up in himself he doesn't know anything about living life as a human being. He's placed himself shamlessly upon an altar as a living lord. There aren't even so many 'wink, winks' anymore. He continues to perpetrate lie after lie about who and what he is. He lives only for himself. Love, Cynthia

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 15:58:52 (EST) From: Joe Email: None To: Cynthia Subject: Great Book/Brainwashing Message:

Cynthia, That book 'Snapping' really helped me understand the way cult members think in 'loops' seemingly impermeable to contrary information. They talk about cult members having an 'information disease' such that they can't be the least bit objective about what they either believe or feel when it comes to the cult. I'm certain that I 'snapped' into the cult prior to receiving knowledge, somewhere in the aspirant process. I'm not sure why or how I 'snapped' out of it, but I remember the moment exactly that I was indeed out. I happened in the living room of a guy named Josh Baron in Berkeley, where I was sitting with Joy. It was the first moment when I allowed myself to entertain criticism of Maharaji. It was a shocking, liberating experience and it happened in a nanosecond. I will never forget it. It was kind of like laughing and crying at the same time, but I was stunned. In that moment, the cult became clear to me. That was in, I think, December, 1982. But a series of other events and feelings got me to the point of even talking to this guy. I think it was because I was miserable, and because I saw other premies suffering and miserable. It was taking too much effort to hold my beliefs together, and I was just exhausted. But as you know, the reason I don't like the word 'brainwashing' is that it implies coercion -- making people accept things they don't want to accept. So, in that sense, I don't think I was ever brainwashed, because I freely participated in my own programming, at least at the beginning. At no point do I recall being forced to accept something I didn't want to. And that's what makes it so insidious, because it seems voluntary. But it's voluntarily accepting the information disease. But other than that, 'brainwashing' is a right on description of what it is to be in a cult. Joe

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 12:26:00 (EST) From: Joy Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: What an abusive comment! Message:

I am just sickened and outraged to hear that M said that, that there are people halfway thru a K session who are more conscious and aware than those who have been practicing thirty years. What rubbish! Anybody who's stuck with him for thirty years has donated their hearts, minds, time, energy, bankbook and countless thousands of hours to him to be rewarded by what? This scornful comment? He is such a pig! He makes me sick to my stomach! Why couldn't he for once say something appreciative of all the time and energy the premies have put into serving him? What about a little gratitude from his end? But no, just more verbal abuse and condemnation. There's more peace and light in Suchabanana's little finger than there is in his entire evil empire. Perhaps, if, as he says, thirty years of practicing his stupid Knowledge leaves people unconscious and unaware, then it's not worth a hill of beans? Wouldn't that be the logical conclusion from that statement? The reason the new aspirants are more fully aware than the person who's been following thirty years is because they HAVEN'T been involved. Give them time and they'll become just as worthless in M's eyes as the long-term premies. I have just never heard anything so creepy in my entire life, I spit upon his disgusting form!

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 13:30:31 (EST) From: Joe Email: None To: Joy Subject: He is probably right, Joy Message:

That person OTS was talking to has probably been a premie for 30 years and is so unconscious he doesn't know he's in a cult and censoring half his own thoughts from reaching 'conscious' awareness. So, hopefully somebody halfway through the knowledge session isn't quite as out of it. But it IS an abusive comment, typical of authoriatarian masters to try to denigrate any individual self-esteem. The Atlanta training video is full of that -- Maharaji says premies can't even talk about their own experience, that they are too stupid to try to describe what they think is happening to them, are the cause of all M's problems in being so utterly unrelatable to 99.99% of people, and even after having knowledge for 30 years aren't even competent to say something about it without screwing it up. And what was amazing, to anyone who hasn't been a premie, was that no one stood up in the audience and said 'Who the Fuck do you think you are for talking to us like that?' No, they sat there, took it, and pretended to love it. I don't think you can get much more unconscious than that. BTW -- I saw John Horton, Marcia Leitner and I think Booth Dyess sitting in the audience.

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 11:54:14 (EST) From: OTS Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: Re: I won't say it Message:

Sir Dave, thanks for your simply sensible, touching and highly intelligent post. Last night, I had the unfortunate experience of attending a professional sporting match with an old premie friend. I told him after half-time that I’m now totally out of everything involved with M&K after nearly 30 years. He is/was the most brainwashed person I have ever met. His head was so buried in the sand it will take an industrial construction crane to extricate the man from his own mental cave. So, Dave, your “brainwashing” theory appears sensible to me. He could not believe that I am able to function without “practicing.” I told him that it was in my opinion his own efforts using the techniques that gives him whatever it is he thinks he gets from it -- God Realization, or whatever. And this was not due to “the Grace of the Satguru.” He said, “No, no, no,” he laughed at me, “the techniques are only techniques.” I told him that blocking off one’s senses one-by-one and the experience therefrom was not experiencing “God” to me. And that the Lord Of The Universe, The Perfect Master of Our Time, Satguru, appeared to be backing off on his claims of divinity. What’s up with that? You mean he won’t or he will be there in my darkest hour and won’t abandon me. Is that saying on the new tee shirts, mugs, watches, hat logo correct or not? Will he be there or not? He had a quick answer for anything I said. He always has said and said again last night that seeing M (like at Miami in December for him) was like getting “a shot” -- you know, like getting a required medicinal dosage of a required substance. He said last night that M on the stage is what it’s all about for him. “As soon as he leaves the stage, I’m confused.” Right you are, old friend. Only my friend’s “experience” mattered, he stated. Everything else didn’t matter in this life. That little girls were allegedly raped and molested by M’s travelling representative, that no new (non-Hindi) people are really interested in receiving Knowledge in the past 15 years and that M is an embarrassment and that my friend, himself, is unable to tell anyone he knows or works with about M, that most people have left the group (I couldn’t use the “c” [cult] word with him], that M has gone through nearly a hundred million U.S. Dollars in the past 15 years and has been unable to successfully get his message out to the Western world that he’s here and that Knowledge is available (did he even try?), that the group appears to be a rich travelling country club with special meetings and close-up seats for sale for the more wealthy and larger donors -- all these things don’t mean a thing to him. The only thing is his “practice” and his “experience” That M has done nothing with his tens of millions of dollars to socially help any of his fellow human beings (not sponsored or built a hospital, orphanage, half-way house, or anything for the good of the public). All meaningless. Hey, get your head out of the sand, my man. He recommended I look into some social service agencies that I might want to assist. I said, right, because M has done nothing for anyone in this world. That really set him off. I should have just shut up. With an unbeatable deficit and only minutes to go in the ballgame, I left him and the game (no miracle come-back for either the home team or myself). I smiled goodbye, shook hands and told him to keep strong with his beliefs. He gave me the holy breath sign (raising and lowering of a half-closed fist from chin to belt) and a smile. I doubt we’ll be chatting much in the future. But I’m glad he’s happy and having an experience. Yeah, right. At least somebody is experiencing something. There must be a stronger word than “brainwashed” because he was beyond truthful recognition.

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 17:10:39 (EST) From: Steve Mueller Email: mistyqm@mn.mediaone.net To: OTS Subject: The correct term is: hogwashing Message:

Critters (like M) that take and take and take too much . . . we call them hogs, right? Yes, Stevieji. Well then, the proper term to describe M's methods is: HOGWASH-ing Yes, oh, yes, that makes sense, Steveji.

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 11:58:42 (EST) From: Jim Email: None To: OTS Subject: But you just did, OTS Message:

Another excellent post, dude. Thanks for your well-expressed insights. What's your story, anyway? I'm sure we'd all love to hear it.

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 10:41:18 (EST) From: Tonette Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: You got that right Message:

In fact, everything about your post was right on the money. Yes, the videos serve as a brainwashing technique. Without a doubt. The continuing diatribe M delivers speaks of the continued pursuit of something that is never to be held in your hand, Knowledge. An experience, etheral, heavenly, of light, not real perhaps? Certainly what humans are not made for. We are humans with a body for a reason. I will not launch into my own philosophy, but I can say that you miss alot of life and love by spending your time with your eyes closed concentrating on your breath, thumbs in your ears, tongue pressed on your palate or beyond, eyes and forehead massaged. There's every bit of that experience present in a child's smile, sitting on the beach, having great sex, holding a baby, kayaking white water, hiking a mountain. I will not expound upon the demeaning, abusive, inhumane way M treats his devotees. Gosh, the history is here, documented, many times over. And it's no fault of the people, the majority of which are very fine and intelligent people who continue to fall for M's lie. Who can figure? But I do know for a fact that believing M and following his path is not condusive to one being ethical. I have seen too many examples of that fact. People doing things that they would never consider if not for M and his demands. M is not a moran, he's amoral. He doesn't have any. And he has done some very awful hurt. He has the resources to make ammends. Why doesn't he? He also has no ethics. And yes, Dave, he is very dangerous. No ability to identify morals, no ethics plus an ego deeper and larger than the Marianna Trench= danger. Right on Dave. Hope you are not hurting too deeply. Although, how could you not. I'm so sorry for what happened to your friend and his son. The first lesson for you would be, and I'm just speaking from my own experience, it may not be true for you, the first lesson is, there is no blame on you, no guilt. You weren't there, could not stop them. You also did not know what was planned. No one to inform. Aw, gee, suicide, dammit, it hurts. Love to you, Tonette

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 02:53:54 (EST) From: Dermot Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: I'm proud of the fact Message:

I was never one to completely internalise stuff M said and just repeat it as if I had no mind of my own, even through all my years of premie-dom. In fact it was a premie quality that really used to bug me on a regular basis.. Otherwise sensible, sussed friends of mine would say something to each other and really they were just repeating whatever current spin M was into at that time. If I said to them “Can’t you think for yourself?” or “Just because M says it, doesn’t mean it’s necessarily true”, it was as if I was a heretic or something. Yes, I lived in two ashrams for a total of a year or so in my ¼ century+ of premie-dom but the first one I just walked out in disgust (trashing a pic of M as I left) and the second one left as the Bal bhagwan ji developed. Begs the question then why I stayed sooo long. I’ve wondered and wondered. I just used to get caught up in the emotion of devotion (the romantic, sentimental Irish part of me haha ) and ALWAYS gave the whole trip the benefit of the DOUBT for the sake of 'heart'. Yeah, I wasn’t averse to the ole devotional teardrops but my thinking brain never totally got sucked in by the hype and bullshit. I think that’s why it was never a big traumatic thing when I actually exited. He made it easy for me though when the Long Beach events just spelt out one phrase……”PERSONALITY CULT”. Cheers Dermot.

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 02:51:46 (EST) From: PatC Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: But you did and very well said too. Message:

While I was in it, it seemed real enough. While I was getting out of it, it seemed scary. Now it just looks like any old cult, dumb but potentially dangerous and definitely cheap and cheesy.

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Date: Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 23:59:40 (EST) From: Jethro Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: sad sad sad Message:

Totally agree. It's really sad isn't it. I studied on a course in the early 90s and there I met a couple of aspirants who told me that they has been told to watch out for the 'older premies'. This was told to me after I had been talking to someone about m's early years in India. They assured me that all that LOTU did not happen.(...after all Belkis told them!!) I then showed them the 'was meant to be destroyed' video satguru has come and my picture collection of him and various pictures of his feet. I think that did the job. The people I feel most sorry for are those with premie spouses. It's like loving someone who is absent. Take care Dave and I know of your recent bereavment and don't know how to make it better. Jethro

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Date: Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 23:05:23 (EST) From: Zoloft Email: None To: All Subject: the big Bada-Boom Message:

Before M all I could think about was sex. After a few months under his medical care, all I could think about was M. And now after listening to the inner sound for 20 years I can't think at all. My wife left me years ago after finding out I was in the habit of kissing the feet of a 16-year old boy,my kids think I'm in serious need of growing up and taking responsiblitity for my actions, the electricity has been cut to my house and never having seen any inner light, I'm pretty much living in darkness. All I have is a picture of a candle and a permanent nail mark between my eyebrows. Oh well, I'd like to go buy a book on deprogramming but having sat in lotus for so long, my legs don't work anymore. Oh well, it could be worse. I could be married to Joan Apter.

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 10:36:53 (EST) From: m 2 Email: None To: Zoloft Subject: It could be worse Message:

yeah, is a lot of growing up to do after leaving such a master c'ause he let us grow week, the bastard! The programming got us here but then, maybe we can programm ourselves to grow...neah...hard subject for some of us. The rest? yeah, laugh, you, lucky star. Some of us are still in pieces. The larger the surrender, the lower we fell. EDUCATION HELPS. Master MAHARAJI sucks.

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 00:02:43 (EST) From: Jethro Email: None To: Zoloft Subject: Re: the big Bada-Boom Message:

There is life after prem. Learn from your kids and start over. take care Jethro

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Date: Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 17:41:53 (EST) From: housemum Email: None To: All Subject: epo is great! Message:

I left EV along time ago when it was DLM, and I arrived at this forum recently to discover that I had old and unknown hurt and anger. Before then I had lurked, but I hadn't taken the time to really read EPO. I didn't need convincing, and then the site was sabotaged and down. Now that it's back up I have started reading it, beginning with those posts from the former leaders and PAMS on the main page, and I am shocked at how badly things with m and k deteriorated over time. If, like me, you haven't read the information on EPO, do it. And thanks to those of you who do the work on EPO so that now we all have access to the truth. Love you guys!

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Date: Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 18:42:56 (EST) From: Gail Email: gcmacdougall@yahoo.ca To: housemum Subject: Where is EPO? Message:

I can't find it? Thanks!

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Date: Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 18:51:50 (EST) From: JHB Email: None To: Gail Subject: See my EPO Mirror Sites thread below Message:

EPO with its usual name will be back later this week. John.

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Date: Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 19:17:03 (EST) From: Gail Email: None To: JHB Subject: Thanks and btw Message:

The search for ex stuff is way down on the totem pole. I'm sure you've got your hands full already. Thanks for all the work.

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Date: Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 16:03:13 (EST) From: Lesley Email: None To: All Subject: The Boy with his Finger in the Dyke Message:

How trusting we are. When I read here that Rawat has made it known that he does not want premies to read about him on the internet, it snagged my attention. On the one hand, it seems too silly for words, surely just even saying that will pique the premies’ curiosity and get them reading. But, when I thought about it, it occurred to me that many premies would be relieved to have his agya not to read; naturally feelings of anxiety surface at the idea of checking out what ex premies are saying, and now they have the imprimatur of Maharaji that it is not necessary to face it. So, he stands there, like the boy with his finger in the hole in the dyke. The dyke is unstable, the wall will break, but for the moment, magically, one little thumb is keeping the whole dyke from cracking open. There is a huge body of water behind the wall, it will engulf the town, this situation is no joke. It takes time to absorb the information that Maharaji is just a stage show, that in the Knowledge Session I was shown some refried yoga techniques, and that the person responsible for this, Mr Rawat, far from being an admirable character, is the type of person who can make the decision, not to stop, but to limit Jagdeo’s touring to communities where Jagdeo’s activities are not likely to result in any financial or legal problems for Mr Rawat. It takes time. At first there is an air of unreality as you fight your way out of the dungeon you are in, only to end up standing there with the paper bag in your hand you have just taken off your head. For me, it was an unmitigated relief. My personal dyke had already been broached; after a long stint at Amaroo in ‘97, when I returned home I had had a series of vivid nightmares that unlocked my blackest feelings and for a time my life was a living nightmare as I tried to understand what was happening to me with a fucking paper bag wedged over my head. As I say, it was an unmitigated relief to discover the truth of the matter, to have the verity of my nightmares and my feelings validated, to realise, in truth, I did not have a relationship to Maharaji, and could lay down the burden that weighed so sickeningly on my soul. In my opinion, what is real is real. This is a real situation, a bunch of people are slowly waking up to the understanding that they have been misled, there are real feelings involved, real human beings, real lives. I was talking to a friend who had recently been on a sailing trip on a small catamaran, we were discussing sailing on big waves and he said that what he did was to put drag out the back to slow down his speed, that way he had enough control to keep his boat from angling down the wave and ending up broadside. Perhaps Maharaji’s intransigence is a blessing in disguise, a finger in the dyke that gives the townsfolk a chance to pack their bags and find the cat.

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 08:31:54 (EST) From: Who? Email: None To: Lesley Subject: Re: The Boy with his Finger in the Dyke Message:

The Cat?

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Date: Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 21:01:38 (EST) From: Idiotproof Email: None To: Lesley Subject: How trusting we are Message:

Yes and how stupidly naive. Would you mind providing some real evidence of 'Rawat has made it known that he does not want premies to read about him on the internet.' In the meantime, just keep up the imaginative vitriolic rationalisations that keep you afloat in this rough, cruel sea of disillusionment. It's going to be very interesting seeing what you do when you reach the far shore where there will be no target for your derision but yourselves.

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 14:54:34 (EST) From: Lesley Email: None To: Idiotproof Subject: Proof of idiocy Message:

I wonder if you would talk to me like that face to face, I hope not. Try taking that note you wrote, and address it to yourself, not me, it would be more apt in every respect. Firstly, I am not the one flogging a dead horse, I am no longer that naive. Secondly, I stated my source, if you want more evidence, you are better placed to obtain it. Thirdly, well, as I say, it sounds like you are talking to yourself. Fourthly, thank you for your interest, but again, I think you should address that question to yourself, it sounds like you think it is necessary to have someone as your Master, someone you can put on a pedestal, someone that carries the can for your own actions.

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 09:23:59 (EST) From: Tonette Email: None To: Idiotproof Subject: You're full of bullshit, get the hell out! Message:

Either take a serious look at the cult or please, leave here. Post this nonsense on Life's Great or better yet send it to Maharaji in an email or a letter. But here, it's total rubbish. What will I do when I get to the other side of the shore? Meaning finally paddling my way out of the maya? Or when I die? Why don't you explain a little. I am already on the other side of the shore. Oh yes I am. But as long as I have breath in my lungs, the good old heart to pump my blood, my consciousness, as long as I am able, I will continue to try and illuminate to the poor souls such as yourself on the absolute lie that you were fed and now believe. You could start by opening up a little and tell us a little about yourself. You've nothing to lose by doing that. Pick an anonymous name. I think you are the come lately Maharaji defender that likes to post without without any identifiable notation while flinging insults. Not very nice, very paranoid and unethical. Tell me what have you learned from your Master? You know, the experience of life and love that your master expounds upon, endlessly. Is this what practicing K has reduced you to? At least look at the aspect of why you are reading and making your offensive posts here. What exactly are you afraid of? And what exactly are you trying to accompolish. How are we a threat to the truth? If indeed it is that. And you would be much better received at many, many other web sites. But until you acknowledge yourself, you'll not get my respect or humanity. Get real or take a hike. Tonette

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 03:19:55 (EST) From: Dermot Email: None To: Idiotproof Subject: Rubbish Message:

In the early days he warned against the internet ....yes he did .....and at the time I thought how stupid of him. It's just a means of communicating. Then when he realised "if you can't beat them join em" he set up on th net. I remember the time well. Now he's withdrawing again. Cutting down EV, changing his site to plain mush that says nothing (as oppossed to the incriminating lies he had on his last site i.e. he never wanted to be a leader and it was just peoples trips, not his). You're in a dreamland matey.

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Date: Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 23:29:33 (EST) From: janet Email: None To: Idiotproof Subject: you're us and we're you Message:

remember? the only one maharaji is taking across is himself. and judging by the ballast he's been cramming in the hold all these years, the ship is gonna sink, and he'll go down with it, hugging his gold toilets, and the rest of y'all are gonna be real humbled and grateful when you wash ashore, skin and bones dehydrated and starved after the shipwreck, and discover we got there ahead of you and made a nice little settlement, all stocked and ready with the things you're gonna be needing and wanting, to help you recover from your experience with total abandonment. We jumped ship and went thru it all before ya. Don't thank us now. You can thank us when it means something to you. and IT WILL.

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Date: Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 21:49:35 (EST) From: PatD Email: None To: Idiotproof Subject: Paddle your own canoe... Message:

...across the ocean deep & leave others to do the same. I smell a .........can't bring myself to name it though ....gotta real problem with the 4th letter of the alphabet. I can't speak for Lesley,but I've reached the far shore already myself,you know ,like man, I've realised the ineffable essence of the prem pal within . I won't share the secret with you though,'cos next time round I'll be a microbe on one of his $100 bills, whereas you, you lucky bastard will be merged in the light already.....enjoy whilst you can & piss off.

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Date: Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 17:06:06 (EST) From: Bai Ji Email: None To: Lesley Subject: Re: The Boy with his Finger in the Dyke Message:

This is great Lesley. You have put a voice to all that I am now going through. I hope you are healing well. I am up and down, but all I read here gives me strength to hang in there another day. You write most eloquently. Pity we never were asked to use our own gifts in Service, instead of the Mind-Numbing, Soul Destroying tasks (dig a hole, fill it in again!) that we mostly had to perform all these years. (Except for Doctors of course,m didn't want them doing such demeaning things. Now that we are released from his spell, maybe we can 'Follow our Bliss' Joseph Campbell..and feel validated and proud in our own right. Lots of Love to you Lesley. Bai Ji XXX

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 16:51:42 (EST) From: Lesley Email: None To: Bai Ji Subject: Hi Bai Ji Message:

Thanks for your post, and you too, Fran. I am healing well, it is coming up for two years now and I feel a bit like a cat that has been out hunting all night, I'm back home, found a nice sunny spot, got a full belly and the time for a good stretch and a relax, a few zzzzzs while the digestive process completes itself. Though I bear the marks of human ignorance, they do not define me or determine the way I live. I'm kinda having fun here, I like what I am doing, and I'm pretty enthusiastic about my life, nice place, nice people, for some of whom I feel a depth of affection I cannot put into words. And I feel good about myself, pleased to meet me, I like myself so much it's quite touching, lol. IMO, bitterness is good, it is an aid to digestion, as cynicism can be a bandaid to ease an aching heart. Real pleased to meet you, Bai Ji, love Lesley

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 17:37:16 (EST) From: Bai Ji Email: None To: Lesley Subject: We'll meet again,,,XXX(nt) Message:

[nt]

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Date: Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 19:59:31 (EST) From: Francesca :~) Email: notinherent@yahoo.com To: Bai Ji Subject: The monkey on my wall Message:

It's been a long time since my cult days, but you are putting a voice to what I went through in the silence of the 4 walls of my own mind. I did not face all this stuff until years later. I had 'moved on.' Yeah, right. It is so wonderful not to have a muffled voiced saying something from the back of a closet every now and then. Although I would at times realize what a crock the whole thing was, I still had a HUGE (poster size) photo portrait of the Maha on my bedroom wall up until almost a year ago, that I'd inherited when the ashrams closed. After all, he was my former teacher, and I still felt some degree of 'gratitude.' After I started reading the Forum I took that picture down and tore it up and threw it away. The frame fell apart in my hands. There wasn't much left to it. Instead of a monkey on my back, I had one on my wall. Watching me. Lots of love to Lesley and Bai Ji. There are many people reading who do not have the courage to say what you are saying. xoxoxoxo --f

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 04:57:11 (EST) From: Mirror Email: None To: Francesca :~) Subject: Re: The monkey on my wall Message:

Wow Francesca... your story is my story. We have to face the consequences of our former beliefs, no matter how long ago we used to believe them, or how far we have moved on. It is good to see myself in a different light. I always thought of myself as pretty 'spiritually mature' and that kind of crap. Having had a teacher like M and then move on on my own learning from other teachers too. As I see myself now back in those days... I wasn't 'spiritually mature' at all (nor am I now by the way), I was 'terminally immature'! Mirror Mirror

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 13:06:23 (EST) From: Francesca :~) Email: None To: Mirror Subject: We are each other's ... Message:

Mirrors, and part of the great web of the known and unknown. Love to you. At the same time I must acknowledge my own immaturity and mistakes (gosh, my own spiritual arrogance is humbling), I can rejoice and be glad that we had the inner pull and the courage to make those mistakes, and that those steps brought us here and are keeping us moving in a positive direction. If I didn't make mistakes, I would be so full of myself that no one, including myself could put up with me. (giggle) Francesca

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Date: Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 16:03:09 (EST) From: Vicki Email: None To: All Subject: Cast in Maharaji's Play Message:

Knowledge was a promise that we would see and know our true selves at last, freed from the concepts thrust upon us by parents, teachers, friends, employers, even our own self. What we thought we were; our position in life, our relationship status, our successes, our failures, were said to mean nothing. In fact, it's right here on a tape I have, where Maharaji implores the listening audience to forget for a moment they are a 'wife, mother, CEO...'etc and pare down to the basic; that of a simple, human being. Quite a sale. The mask painted upon us as the price to live in this world was too high, in Maharaji's opinion, and we needed saving from ourselves. We needed the 'possibility' to be our true self, freed from this world where all's a stage. It would seem, then, that Maharaji's little world is a guaranteed, stage free environment, free from all such banalities. Why, then does he cast every person that becomes a premie into a role? The first is 'interested person', then a 'learning more' person, eventually an 'aspirant' and finally a 'premie'. One would think the role would stop there but it doesn't. It is only the beginning. This morning I realized what a role I have been playing for three decades. Mine was the role of good, little premieji. Other's are the role of an instructor, a church lady, and industrial strength churchlady, a honcho, a PAM, a security Mafioso, an EV psyco control freak, the royal daughter/son, wife, mistress, brother and the celebrity elite. I'm sure I've missed a few. The point is, for knowledge to be the great leveler, to be the one true denominator that could unite human beings in their alikeness, it certainly has been one of the greatest dividers of all times. In a world were all things were supposed to be equal, they were totally askew, with the underlying factor being money, proximity to money, or the possibility of money. All these roles seem to be accepted for a variety of reasons, but mostly because Maharaji 'knows best' and therefore, a premie is where a premie is because of grace, and for learning this life's lessons so we might surrender more. Well, it's a crock, that's what it is and always was. Maharaji's casting is of a dog eat dog mentality. It all works for him, even having a mistress to keep his wife from getting too sure of herself. Premies get locked in roles that are far worse than the ones the world has to offer. The truly sad thing is, they believe they are freed by these new roles, so deceptive in their con that they don't even appear to be a role. A life, htne, of walking around in this world, is not that of a free one, but that of one who is shackled, bound, and glued to this face, that only is seen in Maharaji's grand productions. It's invisible to the real world, except that it's caused facial contortions and brain inactivity. Nope, I never realized what my assigned role was until now. Insideous and clever, painting us into a corner we never saw coming. Forcing us to accept and become something that was never of any real value. It was one more way to be controlled and pigeon holed, but it 'felt' good because we were hooked on 'a feeling'.

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 03:01:01 (EST) From: PatC Email: None To: Vicki Subject: Thanks, Vicki, another great post!!! [nt] Message:

[nt]

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 00:03:05 (EST) From: janet Email: None To: Vicki Subject: TAROT--the Devil Card Message:

If any of you have a deck of Tarot cards around, or a book with the images of them--the classical ones, not the new variations you see in the bookstores--take out and study the Devil Card. notice that there is a man and a woman in the ofreground, and the Devil looming over them, dominating the scene. Notice that the man and the woman have shackles around their necks, connected by chains, to the Devil behind them--but interestingly enough, not connected to each other, except thru him. Ostensibly, they are his slaves, his captives, and are bound to him, helpless. However, look a little closer. Notice something: The neck rings are actually rather loose and large, not tight and strangling. Loose enough to raise and remove, if they thought about it and really wanted to take them off. Consider their expected plea, if confronted with this fact. Likely, they would protest that they are bound and subject to him, his will, that they could never leave, that he has them completely trapped; that were they to even think about doing such a thing, they could never get far very fast, that he would surely strike them down if they tried to leave, and would doubtless bind them more tightly than he does now, so mercifully. So they don't even try. Consider, too, how people protest that 'the devil makes them do it', when they are caught acting in ways they know are less than the height of human virtue. They speak as though prisoners of some agent they are helpless to escape, dolefully claim that they've tried, god nows, but always it happens again. Consider now that this cozy little triangle isn't one of adversarial struggle, but a pact of delight and convenience. For the captives', they can point to their Master and blame everything on him, when anyone takes them to task or criticizes their actions, and can claim that it's greater than any human could possibly fight. for their master, he takes great delight in yanking their chains, but not too hard, because he DOES know that they can leave him at any time, if they realize their actual power. He loves the fact that they serve him and defer to him, and tell everyone how powerful he is. He delights that they give all listeners the impression that his might is impossible to resist, and act out, so convicingly, the overwhelm of their thrall to him. In short, theirs is a tacit and undying contract, an agreement, to depend on each other. They need each other. The Master is not a master, without servants or slaves. If they leave him, he is nothing. He is left alone, unable to do any more than any individual can do, all by themselves. He knows this, but he has to be careful that his lackeys don't. For his servants, he is their excuse and absolution for whatever they do. They don't have to make up for it. They don't have to be good or make amends, or even try. As long as they have that shackle and chain, they are comfortable in the Knowledge that they can point to the Master, he who is so huge and all powerful that no one, not even them-can defy- and can say to outsiders AS WELL AS TO EACH OTHER that it can't be otherwise. The pivotal observation, here, when contemplating the card ant its meaning, is that either one of them--the man, or the woman, or both together, can opt to take off their shackles at any time, and walk away, free. Their enslavement is illusory. And it is quite possibly voluntary, if not naive and unknowing. However, if they should reach that discovery or realization (that they really can take off the leash and be free), they are faced with the immediate spectre of what to do about all the dishonest habits they have let themselves get into as a result of pointing at their fingers at the imaginary scapegoat they have hidden behind, all this time. There will be no one around to blame anymore. They will have to carry themselves to a higher standard. They alone will have to account for and answer for themselves. And speaking of scapegoats--notice how the Devil is usually portrayed with the lower body of a goat? How's that, for the Ultimate Scapegoat? Did this ever dawn on any of you, before? the more i think about it, this whole saga would make a great epide of the Twilight Zone or The Outer Limits or the like, wouldn't it? The Devil comes down to earth in rich, elegant, expensive gentleman's attire, speaking smooth, persuasive words of promise, promising to make your life just perfect, to spare you all the troubles others have to suffer, and all he asks for is--yup, you guessed it--a lifetime contract to serve him, give all you have to him, and he'll take you across. Oh, man.

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Date: Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 15:31:52 (EST) From: Livia Email: None To: All Subject: access to ex-premie sites Message:

Something's gone weird with access to ex-premie sites. I normally go to a site called MaharajiWatch which contains a list of all the sites relating to Maharaji both pro and con. Luckily I bookmarked Forum 7 otherwise I wouldn't be here now, because when I tried to go to MaharajiWatch just now in order to get to Lifeisgreat (interesting forum) it has been replaced by a version of ExPremieOrg. It's great to see (a form of) ExPremieOrg again, but what has happened to MaharajiWatch? Does anybody know? And is it coming back? With love, Livia

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Date: Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 16:41:23 (EST) From: Sir Dave Email: None To: Livia Subject: Maharaji watch - here's the link Message:

See above link. Maharaji Watch is also linked to from the Sat Chit Chatroom. [ Maharaji's Watch? ]

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Date: Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 16:06:25 (EST) From: JHB Email: None To: Livia Subject: Re: Maharajiwatch Message:

Livia, It's a longish story, but there is logic as to why Maharajiwatch got replaced with a partly built version of EPO. Maharajiwatch will be back either with the same address or with a new address. Bookmark all three new EPO sites, and you should have the links you need. John.

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Date: Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 17:52:41 (EST) From: Livia Email: None To: JHB Subject: Re: Maharajiwatch Message:

Great, Sir Dave and JHB, and thanks. I've found it all now - it was a bit confusing! Whoever's putting it all back up has done a wonderful job. Love to all of you, Livia

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Date: Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 11:09:34 (EST) From: Nigel Email: nige@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: All Subject: Question for ex-PAM's Message:

Although Maharaji is obviously the real thing, ie., Lord of the Universe, living incarnation of Krishna, perfect Master for the age etc., it has occasionally crossed my mind how closely his operation resembles that of a fake Master – so much so, that sometimes the average punter might even confuse the two… ;) I mean, especially, how over the years – and I am sure this is just coincidence – you can trace a pattern of organisation and re-organisation with Divine Light Mission and Elan Vital which might be misconstrued as a system whose ultimate aim is to maximise the Master’s bank-balance; income not going directly to him being channelled into events which, in turn, might secure present and future membership, thereby guaranteeing the Master’s future lifestyle. Activities found to be non-profitable and/or draining on resources (ashrams, the DECA project, community satsang) are quietly dropped, whilst others promising greater reward (smart cards, Amaroo, satellite feeds, video and trinket sales, Amaroo registration, darshan donations, ‘special gifts’ and camping fees) are promoted. We have read of Maharaji’s enthusiasm for the business-model – his famed love of bar charts and statistical projection, his heavy-duty motivational pep-talks to fundraisers. To say the very least, money matters to Maharaji. If it pays, use it; if it don’t pay, lose it. So I was wondering (and maybe former PAM’s can help?) – has Maharaji ever discussed with those closest to him how he might make one central aspect of his mission a more lucrative ‘product’, ie., himself? As he watches the trickle of exiting premies, surely he must wonder whether there are ways in which he might sharpen up his own act? How about his addresses? Has he never had a quiet word to close associates on how he might spice up content or make them more public-friendly? How about his style of delivery? – those long awkward pauses, the repetition, the lack of coherence, structure or content? From recent videos, one thing about Maharaji remains as yet impressive: his obvious self-belief and confidence. No doubt the inevitable product of a life that never knew subservience, never encountered criticism, coupled with much early-years practice in winging it on stage, and from being adored regardless of the content of his satsangs. Just being Maharaji has always been enough – or at least it was until the internet came along. But although self-doubt is not Maharaji’s most conspicuous attribute - still less a willingness to discuss personal failings or seek advice - I was wondering, given that the buck is the bottom line, if he believed there were a chance of stopping the imminent collapse of his mission, might he even do a bit of work on making himself more saleable? Has he done so in the past? As donations dwindle and dry up would he sacrifice his vanity to preserve his wallet? Either way, it is hard to see how he will avoid the mother of all mid-life crises in the very near future - with or without the makeover.

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Date: Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 15:25:06 (EST) From: Disculta Email: None To: Nigel Subject: the mother of all mid-life crises's Message:

heh heh heh! That's pretty funny, Nige! Yes, I, too have been wondering along similar lines since I saw the dreaded videos a week or so ago. It seems incredible that he has gone on as long as he has, without having to examine himself or change a thing. Is he even capable of it? Some people have suggested that he has enough money saved up that he could just retire. Maybe he keeps the business going to not have to go into his capital. Or maybe he is really 'hurting' - at whatever financial level that means for him. I think he would be really fortunate if he DOESN'T have enough funds to stay being Howard Hughes for life, and has to face change. It would be good for former devotees wanting some completion, too. The thing is, the particular personality type along with addictions that he seems to have is not noted for its ability to be self-referential or admit to any mistakes. He looks like he's surrounded himself with a pretty dense psychological mass to me. The absurd cult and cultleader may just drift along for years and lose our interest. But won't it be fun and interesting for all of us if a real change happens!

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Date: Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 09:59:07 (EST) From: JHB Email: brauns@apollo.lv To: All Subject: EPO mirror sites now online Message:

Three mirror sites for EPO are now online - www.ex-premie2.org, www.ex-premie3.org, and www.ex-premie4.org. EPO5 and EPO Primary will be on-line later this week. I haven't had a chance to check all the links (although I know some French ones are broken), so if anyone spots any broken ones, please let me know. Features not yet available are:- White Pages Journeys submissions (but current Journeys can be read) Site search facility Forum Archives I'll fix these over the next week or so. I'll also be setting up PayPal for anyone who wants to help with the costs incurred. The purpose of having 5 sites is to deter cyber criminals. If any one site is down, readers should be able to find one that's up. John.

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Date: Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 17:46:57 (EST) From: New-Age Redneck Email: None To: JHB Subject: Re: EPO mirror sites now online Message:

John, Undoubtedly you have this covered, but if you have need of off-site/online storage, let me know. I have a couple of Solaris 4x4's in my home with LOTS of mirrored storage and a high-speed Internet connection. We could set up a VPN, if that's your pleasure. Let me know if you feel the need now or in the future.

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Date: Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 14:13:03 (EST) From: JHB Email: None To: JHB Subject: Re: PayPal - Don't try donating yet! Message:

The PayPal links will appear on the home pages when my registration is complete. Please don't try donating just yet. Thanks, John.

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Date: Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 12:28:28 (EST) From: Joe Email: None To: JHB Subject: Question, John Message:

Thanks John, well done. When you say the 'primary site' will be up later this week, will that be 'ex-premie.org?' Right now, the search engines come up with that site, but it's a dead link. Will that change? So, I take it there will be a total of six locations for EPO from now on? Also, will you be able to get to the other sites from the main one? Thanks.

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Date: Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 14:05:32 (EST) From: JHB Email: None To: Joe Subject: Answer, Joe Message:

Yes, what I call the Primary site will be www.ex-premie.org. It occurred to me that there are probably many links out there, not just to the home page, but to other pages on the site. There will only be five sites for the time being. EPO1, 6, and 7 are being kept in reserve. Yes, the main site will have links to all the other sites, as well as being the full site in itself. It will also host the forum archives which will not be mirrored. John.

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Date: Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 11:28:54 (EST) From: Tonette Email: None To: JHB Subject: Here's my donation....via the forum Message:

And have I ever told you John, how sexy your are? Look at all you do. I am infatuated. Send me a picture, no wait, don't, I don't want to do anything to interfer with my imagination of you. And some people wonder how I ever became a premie! Seriously, TOO COOL! Thank you for all your work, you cyber devil you! Fondly, Tonette

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 13:27:01 (EST) From: cq Email: None To: Tonette Subject: Here's your pictures....via the forum Message:

Sorry, this isn't JHB, but a lovely shot of Anth on his own stairway to heaven. click here for more [ Graphic Link ]

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 13:41:10 (EST) From: Richard Email: None To: cq Subject: What a bunch of loosers Message:

Good god almighty. Now THAT was a Latvian event if there ever was one. Henceforth, it shall be the standard by which all such gatherings shall be organized. Anth showing the result of the conference workshop is truly too much: 'Well, God was my copilot, but then we crashed into this mountain and I had to eat him !' LOLOLOLOL!!!!! Richard

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Date: Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 11:37:12 (EST) From: Tonette Email: None To: Tonette Subject: Pay Pal, I'll have our password later today. nt Message:

nt

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Date: Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 10:05:28 (EST) From: New-Age Redneck Email: None To: JHB Subject: Well done, John! Message:

I, for one, really appreciate your hard work trying to recover. Any movement in the investigative arena? I know you can't give detail, if there is..... just thought I'd ask. :)

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Date: Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 23:15:01 (EST) From: Michael Dettmers in 12/2000 Email: None To: All Subject: Maharaji's sex with premie women Message:

Michael Dettmers as stated on Forum 5, 12/2000: Beginning in 1985, Maharaji began a series of affairs with women who were premies. His move in this direction was prompted by his marriage difficulties in 1984. Although he and Marolyn came to some understanding and resolution over their problems, I do not know if part of that resolution included an agreement that he would be free to engage in extramarital affairs. I know that, from Maharaji’s perspective, Marolyn was certainly not free to engage in extramarital affairs. At that time, Maharaji and I were particularly close and he told me of his desire to experience other women. I was not shocked by his desire nor did I have a negative assessment about it. In fact, I thought that it might put him more in touch with his humanity which could only be a positive development as far as I was concerned. However, I strongly advised him not to get involved with premies. To me, this could potentially bring trouble for him and create difficulties for the women as well. Instead, I suggested that he engage the services of a professional escort, and I offered to make the arrangements for him. At first he seemed open to the idea but soon thereafter he decided against it. He told me that there was a particular premie woman he had in mind, and he asked me to arrange that they meet, which I did. Soon, thereafter, he asked me to arrange a meeting with another woman. In the meantime, the first person was left high and dry wondering what was going on. He cut off communication with her and her only recourse was to contact me. I now found myself in the unpleasant circumstance of dealing with situations he created by his lust and careless disregard for the hurt and confusion it inflicted on his victims. After three such incidents, I told him that his reckless behavior was backfiring, and that I did not have the time to take care of the negative consequences it produced. He responded by agreeing that I had more important things to handle for him than procuring women and that he would now take care of that task himself, meaning that he simply delegated the task to someone who was more amenable to it. He continued to have numerous affairs of which I am aware and it was not too long thereafter that he began a more serious affair with Monica Lewis that, according to my sources, continues to this day.

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Date: Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 00:19:50 (EST) From: bill Email: None To: Michael Dettmers in 12/2000 Subject: Thanks for your honesty on this M D [nt] Message:

[nt]

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Date: Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 23:19:47 (EST) From: Joe Email: None To: Michael Dettmers in 12/2000 Subject: Re: Maharaji's sex with premie women Message:

Does anyone know who took over the pimping duties for Maharaji after Michael resigned? Anyone? Also, can anyone think of any Guru who didn't get into having sex with hid devotees? Are there any at all? It seems to be an inherent tendency of Gurus, and Maharaji is no exception. In the Guru Papers, the authors say that the authoritarian nature of the Master/Devotee relationship leads to this, and even without it is inherently pathological.

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Date: Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 01:43:22 (EST) From: Joy Email: None To: Joe Subject: Re: Maharaji's sex with premie women Message:

Even after I initially got out of the cult, for many years, I sort of, in the back of my mind, admired Maharaji just a little for not falling into this trap like the other sleazy gurus, for appearing to being an honest, faithful family-type man. It comes as no surprise now that he's as bad if not worse than the rest of them. And having an ongoing mistress for many years is pretty disgraceful as well. There is one person that I know of who has posted here but no longer does (sorry, I cannot name any names) who was reputedly one of Maharaji's many affairs. I think it will take a lot of sorting out and therapy, mega-more than the average premie or even PAM, for these women to begin to be able to speak about this. I think all will probably come out in the wash in the end.

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 03:35:02 (EST) From: Disculta Email: darlingwave@aol.com To: Joy Subject: Invitation to come out (please read Fran and Joy) Message:

Hi Joy, I also thought that I had had a guru who, unlike most, didn't actually sexually use his followers. I had actually put it down to his shyness rather than some benign attribute, but maybe some part of me still thought that he was a better 'dad' than that. My problem with him was his verbal abuse and hatred for emotions and the body. I was quite amazed to read the revelations. ktd

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Date: Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 00:10:26 (EST) From: Anandaji Email: None To: Joe Subject: Re: Maharaji's sex with premie women Message:

Also, I don't recall reading any actual accounts by any of the said premies. Did I miss them somewhere?

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Date: Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 15:27:23 (EST) From: Francesca :~) Email: None To: Anandaji Subject: Fear factor Message:

This forum has often been the 'wailing wall' for premies who are outraged at what they read on EPO. First they read EPO, blow a gasket and come here and spew their venom. Can you IMAGINE what would happen to any woman who came forward on this Forum? John MacGregor's posts generated hundreds of personal e-mails to him, and I'm sure, a lot of exhausting discussions with premies he's known over the years, as well as a personal attack on this Forum by one of them (a Mr. Lovejoy -- don't look for it; it's been removed). So besides all the other issues that would keep someone from coming forward, you've got the wrath of EV and Fatso himself. I don't think you've been around, but if you ever search the archives for some of Abi's posts, especially those made in the past 6 months, you'd be dumbstruck at how far EV will go. And she was sexually molested by Jagdeo in her childhood, AND Maharaji claims to know nothing about it. I can only imagine what hell would await someone who came out of the closet re Rawat's personal conduct. Dettmers and Donner have been called everything in the book, on this Forum and Life's Great (the premie forum). To have been taken advantage of sexually, it will take a rare combination of grit and the need to make the painfully personal public to ever have such testimony be placed here. Bests, F

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Date: Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 12:33:12 (EST) From: Joe Email: None To: Anandaji Subject: Speaking out Message:

If a woman who had sex with Maharaji is still a premie, she wouldn't say anything about it for obvious reasons -- to protect Maharaji. For someone who is no longer a premie, it might also be difficult to talk about it publicly, but I am aware that the subject is discussed privately. I'm sure if someone is now an ex-premie, and was taken advantage of by Maharaji, they might not want to admit or talk about that publicly. I am also aware of one woman whom Maharaji propositioned but she refused, that being the last straw and she became an ex. I don't think she wants to speak in a public forum about it, however.

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Date: Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 13:05:21 (EST) From: Cynthia Email: None To: Joe Subject: Re: Speaking out Message:

Hi Joe, I can imagine the difficulty any female premie or ex would have speaking publicly about it. All I can do is wish them well and hope that the experience hasn't caused them so much shame that they blame themselves. Because it is/was sexual exploitation, these women might have similar feelings as date rape victim would, plus more due to maharaji's position of power. I am not the least bit interested in maharaji's ''sexual performance'' or the size of his penis. That's just plain crude. My concern and empathy goes directly to these women. What maharaji has done to these young women is inexcusable and cruel. I don't mind saying however, that maharji is a real pig. Yuck! Makes me want to take a shower... Cynthia

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Date: Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 01:29:44 (EST) From: Marshall Email: None To: Anandaji Subject: Re: Maharaji's sex with premie women Message:

I don't recall any woman actually corroborating any of these stories on the forum. I'm not sure why none of them have come forward with their stories. There must still be a ton of co-dependence and denial involved with this stuff. Please, former playthings of the living lord, SPEAK OUT! Tell us what 'went down' so to speak. I've heard that there is a case of microphallus involved, anyone care to comment on this?

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Date: Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 03:42:57 (EST) From: JHB Email: None To: Marshall Subject: One woman did speak out Message:

Somewhere in the archives I read one woman's story, but I can't remember when. Maybe someone else can. John.

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Date: Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 22:38:15 (EST) From: Deborah Email: None To: All Subject: Is the term PAM coined at EPO? Message:

Do PAM's refer to themselves as PAM's? If so, was it coined at the EPO forums?

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Date: Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 14:08:08 (EST) From: Joe Email: None To: Deborah Subject: I think so... Message:

The first I ever heard of it was on the first forum associated with EPO. If premies used it, I was not aware of it. I never heard it used when I was a premie, but it could have come into use since then.

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Date: Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 14:26:06 (EST) From: Richard Email: None To: Joe Subject: EPO glossary Message:

Thought I'd drag this out again for the new folks here. - R This is a list of many of the phrases and shorthand used here. Some newcomers have expressed puzzlement at some terms so here they are. Please contribute any that I have missed. This list will be alphabetized later. Particularly of interest to me are the 'Guruvian Slips' - inadvertantly profound mistakes. The following are Guruvian slips: exited utterances - Conlon said instead of excited utterances ridiculting - Cynthia said instead of ridiculing Emoticons: $$$:)->O-< = That's him dancing with his crown. Money makes him so happy. (from G) Forum Glossary: Ex = ex-premie EV = Élan Vital EPO = ex-premie.org FVII or F7 = Forum 7 on ex-premie.org PAM = person around Maharaji PAM postage = postings by former PAMs FOG = friend of guru FOFOG = friend of a friend of guru PWK, PWIK PWCK, PWICK, PEWK = person with knowledge or premie Happy Clapper = pwk Heavy Breather = pwk Gurunoid = pwk ELK = Enjoying Life with Knowledge - a premie website Amarscroo = sun dappled Amaroo festival site in Australia drip = The drips referred to are those required to add to a solution for it to reach the required concentration for precipitation (crystalization) to occur - see AJW's journey. final drip = The very last drop before which is added, the solution looks the same. With the final drip, crystallization occurs. K = knowledge (don't ask) K-Lite = knowledge lite given via DVD X-rated = authorized by M to hang out with him and not reveal what goes on EV = Élan Vital - formerly Divine Light Mission, DLM, or DUO Church Lady = the most fastidious of EV personnel ISCL = Industrial Strength Church Lady Bhakti JuJu = the seductive gumbo of mysticism M brought to the West. Term originated by PatC Maharajism = religion of M and knowledge MRC = Maharaji Responsibility Campaign (http://www.openlettertomaharaji.org/) 1,2,3, and 4 = knowledge techniques Terms referring to the past: The early days The workshop era The heavy devotional era (a/k/a the catholic era) [77 - 80] 76 - refers to a period of more personal freedom and humanizing M followed immediately with a return to Krishna crown, etc. Names for Maharaji: M = Maharaji The Captain or Captain Rawat = Maharaji when flying The Client = Maharaji when anyone else is around The Speaker = how Maharaji is explained to hotel and hall management Reverand Rawat = First and only representative of the Enigmatic and Autodidactic Church of the Non-Hindu Maharajism LOTU = Lord of the Universe Other knicknames for M: MJ GMJ Sant Ji The Perfect Master Sat Guru Balyogeshwar Ballyouguesswhat Balletyogashwamp Prem Pal Singh Rawat PPSR Pimple Rawat Harharaji Bratwat Lard Rugu Urug Urug Uturn The Fatguru Hamster (as in 'Perfect Hamster') Tubby Captain Rawat Goomraji Goober Mahaha Margie Miragey Rawrat Rotwat Karma Chameleon God-in-a-Bod His Rotundity God in Human Form The Greatest Incarnation of God to Ever Trod the Planet BM = Big Maharaji Rev. Moonbeam Mariachi Goomer LOTU = Lord of the Universe Malarky Gumangi Jujumillwalkie Ballony Names for M family members: Rogerji = Raja Ji Bowlajello = Bhole Ji Bubble Gumji = Bal Bhagwan Ji Sat Pal = Bal Bhagwan Ji DrugaJi = Marolyn Rawat Élan Vital revised glossary: Élan Vital = Divine Light Mission synchronization = agya participation = service video and satellite programs = satsang gratitude = surrender practice = meditation

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Date: Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 21:24:02 (EST) From: Deborah Email: None To: Richard Subject: Spot on Richard Message:

Could someone please add the BigHead to that a.k.a. list? Did you and Mercedes have a nice dinner w/Jim & Laurie?

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Date: Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 22:23:20 (EST) From: Richard Email: None To: Deborah Subject: Re: Spot on Richard Message:

Well it was quite pleasant up to the point Jim said we'd have to give him 10% of our income if we wanted to continue posting on F7. :-) Oh, you mean that sincerely? Yes, it's fun to hang out with some of the forum folks in person after years of virtual interaction. And this get together was no exception. As I mention in the thread below, hearing everyone's story eye to eye is really 'enlightening'. Whether in this type of gathering or just chatting with another ex, it is invaluable support to talk honestly about your experience. After all, that's what company of truth is all about - our experience. Too bad satsang was stopped just because everyone had unique experience that often didn't synchronize with the party line. His loss is our gain. Richard, pass the chutney [ Latvian Lite ]

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Date: Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 19:25:43 (EST) From: New-Age Redneck Email: None To: Richard Subject: You forgot one Message:

The goober's lineage: Radio Salami

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Date: Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 19:45:24 (EST) From: Inside Edition Email: None To: New-Age Redneck Subject: One more Message:

PRICK - People Recently Interested in Coming to Knowledge

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