Ex-Premie Forum 7 Archive
From: Jan 17, 2002 To: Jan 23, 2002 Page: 4 of: 5


Salam -:- to Mr Gerry -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 09:40:22 (EST)
__ hamzen -:- Coming from you salam, amazing -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 14:50:16 (EST)
__ __ salam -:- am feeling all funny now -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 18:51:26 (EST)
__ gerry -:- Re: to Mr Gerry -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 11:56:10 (EST)

The Maharaji of Malibu... -:- is viscious yet comical -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 09:21:41 (EST)
__ Gail -:- Re: is viscious yet comical -:- Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 22:02:39 (EST)
__ Pullaver -:- Re: is viscious yet comical -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 10:42:53 (EST)
__ __ cq -:- Viscious? as in Sid Sticky? which reminds me -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 11:10:15 (EST)
__ __ __ Cynthia -:- Cool Hand Luke, 1967 (OT) -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 12:13:58 (EST)
__ __ __ Pullaver -:- Hoo-Ha! Thanks, Honk if you . . .(nt) -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 11:48:43 (EST)
__ JHB -:- I have such a tape -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 10:17:51 (EST)

From LIG -:- The CAT SPEAKS -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 09:11:54 (EST)
__ Abi -:- CW's comfort zone -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 19:36:05 (EST)
__ __ Jim -:- That's VERRRYYYY funny! -:- Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 22:19:12 (EST)
__ __ Deborah -:- This is histerical [nt] -:- Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 17:47:31 (EST)
__ housemum -:- Re: The CAT SPEAKS -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 13:15:53 (EST)

ExP -:- 25 years of resistance .... -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 07:34:13 (EST)
__ la-ex -:- This is the kind of humor that says... -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 11:00:58 (EST)
__ __ ExP -:- Re: This is the kind of humor that says... -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 16:25:41 (EST)

cq -:- Ashram policy - NOT the mahatmas' fault -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 06:31:28 (EST)
__ Monty -:- Strange feelings -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 07:46:58 (EST)
__ __ Joe -:- It happened all the time -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 15:22:27 (EST)
__ __ cq -:- Pythonesque only in hindsight, Monty ... -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 09:08:19 (EST)
__ __ __ PatD -:- It's the John Bull Printing Set religion -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 18:27:35 (EST)
__ __ __ __ cq -:- yeah - printed with invisible ink! (nt) -:- Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 15:17:27 (EST)
__ __ __ housemum -:- thank you for this -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 15:09:13 (EST)

Bai Ji -:- Forum and Website Link .. -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 21:58:42 (EST)

norm -:- Atlanta Training Video -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 19:34:54 (EST)

Deborah -:- Is EPO still missing? -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 18:15:34 (EST)
__ cq -:- Re: Is EPO still missing? -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 08:50:06 (EST)
__ __ magiclara -:- Re EPO -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 09:02:20 (EST)
__ __ __ cq -:- Hey, Magic, that's what I thought too - -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 09:11:17 (EST)
__ JHB -:- I've got it here somewhere -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 18:20:18 (EST)
__ __ silvia -:- Re: I've got it here somewhere -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 01:39:27 (EST)
__ __ Deborah -:- Re: I might have a lead for you -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 18:39:04 (EST)

Joe -:- Why being a premie 'feels good' -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 18:13:59 (EST)
__ Eric -:- Re: Why being a premie 'feels good' -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 09:53:27 (EST)
__ __ Joe -:- Brilliant, Eric -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 13:29:22 (EST)
__ __ housemum -:- tie yourself to his feet -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 13:08:50 (EST)
__ __ __ Joe -:- Erotic, infantile, submission -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 13:35:19 (EST)
__ __ __ __ livia -:- Re: Erotic, infantile, submission -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 19:22:30 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- Disagree, Livia -:- Sun, Jan 20, 2002 at 14:07:04 (EST)
__ __ __ __ ExP -:- Re: Erotic, infantile, submission -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 17:07:36 (EST)
__ __ __ __ housemum -:- Re: Erotic, infantile, submission -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 14:08:37 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ hamzen -:- Supposedly he's completely crap in bed (nt) -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 21:46:01 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Thelma the Thunderstealing astrologer -:- Re: Supposedly he's completely crap in bed (nt) -:- Sun, Jan 20, 2002 at 05:14:23 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Steve Mueller -:- Re: Supposedly he's completely crap in bed (nt) -:- Sun, Jan 20, 2002 at 17:11:17 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Why not discuss it on Chit-chat forum? -:- Sun, Jan 20, 2002 at 19:37:31 (EST)
__ __ Cynthia -:- Re: Why being a premie 'feels good' -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 12:16:05 (EST)
__ __ cq -:- 'prostate'? - 'prostrate' for f**k's sake!(nt) -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 10:24:13 (EST)
__ __ __ Eric -:- Re: 'prostate'? - 'prostrate' for f**k's sake!(nt) -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 22:22:33 (EST)
__ __ __ or maybe just maybe -:- she meant 'aprostate' [nt] -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 17:59:22 (EST)

OTS -:- What I did on my trip to India in 1972 -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 16:31:12 (EST)
__ housemum -:- memory avalanche -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 12:47:30 (EST)
__ Carl -:- Random memories of 1972 India trip -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 11:07:08 (EST)
__ __ Dermot -:- Ha! -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 16:44:49 (EST)
__ __ Joe -:- You are a great writer, Carl -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 15:11:38 (EST)
__ __ PatC -:- Great story, Carl, but link doesn't work [nt] -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 13:55:42 (EST)
__ __ __ Carl -:- Sorry folks, there is no link -:- Sun, Jan 20, 2002 at 16:38:46 (EST)
__ __ __ Marshall -:- It works for me, Pat. (nt) -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 18:16:39 (EST)
__ __ __ __ PatC -:- You're kidding me, Marshall???!! -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 19:37:26 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Marshall -:- Re: You're kidding me, Marshall???!! -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 20:41:17 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Hallucinating, Marshall? -:- Sun, Jan 20, 2002 at 05:18:17 (EST)
__ Sulla -:- Re: How much $$$$? -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 07:17:12 (EST)
__ __ livia -:- Re: How much $$$$? -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 07:38:52 (EST)
__ Jim -:- Sorry I missed it -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 06:29:21 (EST)
__ AJW -:- You should have popped down to Goa. -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 06:03:36 (EST)
__ __ Pullaver -:- Re: You should have popped down to Goa. -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 09:26:25 (EST)
__ __ __ AJW -:- Memory lane. -:- Sun, Jan 20, 2002 at 15:27:50 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Pullaver -:- Kingfishers all 'round . . . -:- Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 01:18:00 (EST)
__ __ __ cq -:- Re: You should have popped down to Goa. -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 10:11:09 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Dermot -:- Rajneesh?...oot of the frying pan into... :) [nt] -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 17:23:39 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Pullaver -:- Re: You should have popped down to Goa. -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 11:29:11 (EST)
__ PatC -:- 11:00 P.M. Meditation on a stick. LOL, OTS -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 04:08:33 (EST)
__ suchabanana -:- i.e. amoebic dysentery's got me on da run! [nt] -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 01:42:04 (EST)
__ Dermot -:- You're all coming out of the woodwork -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 21:49:12 (EST)
__ __ suchabanana -:- yeah, talk about a shitty vacation! [nt] -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 01:44:39 (EST)
__ PatD -:- Re: What I did on my trip to India in 1972 -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 21:25:17 (EST)
__ __ PatC -:- The longest turd? This whole thread ***BEST OF*** [nt] -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 04:16:37 (EST)
__ housemum -:- staten island?? -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 20:05:48 (EST)
__ __ Dermot -:- All those Gurus -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 21:54:06 (EST)
__ __ __ housemum -:- Re: All those Gurus -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 23:16:32 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Dermot -:- All those Gurus... :) [nt] -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 23:28:38 (EST)
__ Richard -:- Re: What I did on my trip to India in 1972 -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 18:42:28 (EST)
__ __ Jim -:- Hey, Richard, are you in town? -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 06:36:14 (EST)
__ __ __ Richard -:- Jim, check your voice mail. -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 14:12:51 (EST)
__ __ PatC -:- Too trippy: vision of a cheesebuger with wings -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 04:27:45 (EST)
__ livia -:- Re: What I did on my trip to India in 1972 -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 17:32:38 (EST)
__ housemum -:- Re: What I did on my trip to India in 1972 -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 16:39:54 (EST)
__ __ Peg...Thanks OTS,Pat, Richard,Hmum&all -:- I also thought I'd missed out! [nt] -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 01:52:55 (EST)
__ __ Monty -:- Luxury -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 17:56:38 (EST)
__ __ __ janet -:- except theirs is true and yours isnt -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 10:05:04 (EST)
__ __ __ gerry -:- Effective technique -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 18:05:45 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Marshall -:- Re: Effective technique -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 18:25:26 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Re: Effective technique -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 18:34:37 (EST)
__ __ __ __ JHB -:- I thought it was humor again, Gerry! -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 18:17:49 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Monty -:- I never expected the Spanish Inquisition -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 06:08:04 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ janet -:- just so long as your'e not -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 10:21:09 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Monty Python? Who's that? -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 18:21:59 (EST)
__ __ Vicki -:- What Fun! -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 16:47:29 (EST)
__ __ __ Brian Smith -:- A appreciation of Indian Food -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 19:30:23 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Sulla -:- I bet M put some ex-lax in that food -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 07:52:12 (EST)
__ __ __ __ gerry -:- I'll vouch for Brian's appetite... -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 19:54:26 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Re: I'll vouch for Brian's appetite... -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 04:19:24 (EST)

PatC -:- Trouble brewing in SF community -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 14:56:57 (EST)
__ PatC -:- Oops! Here's the link....... -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 14:59:28 (EST)
__ __ housemum -:- Re: Oops! Here's the link....... -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 15:45:35 (EST)
__ __ __ Joe -:- Hi mum -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 16:14:54 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Dermot -:- 'become God again' LOL [nt] -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 22:00:46 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Richard -:- Right, Joe -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 16:34:40 (EST)
__ __ __ __ housemum -:- thanks Joe -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 16:32:32 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- Justification for dissembling/Guru Papers -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 17:23:23 (EST)

jmc -:- Sampuran Anand passed away. Who is -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 14:12:33 (EST)
__ Tonette -:- And what was his real name? -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 19:23:47 (EST)
__ __ loaf -:- Norman Evans [nt] -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 10:56:47 (EST)
__ Cynthia -:- See Sampuranand thread below... [nt] -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 14:44:11 (EST)

Gregg -:- Maharajism to Sweep the World! -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 13:32:11 (EST)
__ housemum -:- attributing 'virtue' -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 14:00:19 (EST)

cq -:- The origins of 'the Knowledge' -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 13:22:23 (EST)
__ Deputy Dog -:- The origins of nectar technique -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 16:05:43 (EST)
__ __ cq -:- Hogwash is it, Dep? Think again ... -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 07:53:14 (EST)
__ __ Jim -:- Wow, Dog, you're so ............ -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 07:05:00 (EST)
__ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- Re: Wow, Dog, you're so ... wonderful -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 13:35:55 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Now and Zen -:- Re: Wow, Dog, you're so full of it . . -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 16:43:10 (EST)
__ __ Pullaver -:- Bible Quotes -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 20:22:23 (EST)
__ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- Pullmyfinger, the KJV is on line [nt] -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 14:02:30 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Zen again -:- Re: Pullmyfinger, the KJV is on line -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 16:58:06 (EST)
__ __ __ PatC -:- 6th tech: dashing brains out on stones [nt] -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 04:34:22 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- PatC, remember that scene from Life of Brian? [nt] -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 14:04:24 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Dermot -:- What have the Rromans ever done for us? :) [nt] -:- Sun, Jan 20, 2002 at 13:43:33 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Haven't seen Life of Brian, Dog. How's tricks? [nt] -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 14:07:06 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- Life of Brian -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 20:13:27 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Re: Life of Brian - okay I'll rent it..... -:- Sun, Jan 20, 2002 at 05:24:57 (EST)
__ __ __ Carl -:- Not sure, but I think that 'cleave' business -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 23:48:59 (EST)
__ __ __ __ PatC -:- Precisely: STICK to roof of mouth [nt] -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 04:36:38 (EST)
__ __ __ __ housemum -:- biblical tonguing -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 00:56:20 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ cq -:- Hey, can I join the 'cliterati' too? -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 07:36:12 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ housemum -:- my fave- fat chance/slim chance (nt) -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 12:21:55 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Lily Puns -:- Jerry Mathers as 'Beaver Cleaver' -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 09:16:16 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Dr. Ruth -:- Cunninglingus, surely (nt) -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 18:20:05 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Eddie Haskell -:- I thought cleave meant cleavage! -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 13:25:11 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- Huh? ah well, just call me 'Nun the wiser' -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 10:18:37 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ TV Guide -:- Turn on, Tune in, -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 18:34:18 (EST)
__ ExP -:- Yoni Mudra -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 14:03:59 (EST)
__ __ cq -:- As Mel Brooks might have once said: -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 06:34:00 (EST)
__ __ suchabanana -:- and the Lingam Mudra - hehehe! [nt] -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 15:27:44 (EST)
__ __ __ PatC -:- Otherwise known as the so-hum job [nt] -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 16:22:37 (EST)
__ JHB -:- J-M's hard work -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 13:40:15 (EST)


Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 09:40:22 (EST)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: All
Subject: to Mr Gerry
Message:
Sorry to post on your forum, bad habits never die, but I did succumb to reading a thread below [may allah forgive me] that started by a nerd regarding Belkis, and I must say it's the most tastless and offending thread that i've read in yonks. Not my job, but if I was an FA I will remove it.

Cheers and don't work too hard.

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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 14:50:16 (EST)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Coming from you salam, amazing
Message:
That was one of the funniest threads I've read here in ages, highly amusing.

And compared to some of your posts, quite light.

Chill out man, skin up, whatever.

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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 18:51:26 (EST)
From: salam
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: am feeling all funny now
Message:
and what can I say, I always knew I had a hidden talent somewhere that I need to nurture.
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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 11:56:10 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Re: to Mr Gerry
Message:
I'll look at it Salam, thanks for the heads up. You are certainly welcome to read and post here at will.
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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 09:21:41 (EST)
From: The Maharaji of Malibu...
Email: None
To: All
Subject: is viscious yet comical
Message:
Sure, he needs to be held accountable for his heinous behavior but let's face it. Once you've escaped his control, he does provide some comic relief as well.

His dancing for instance! We have it described by some here as the wobble dance, the divine hula and the Malibu Moonwalker. Any of these images makes for a laugh for those of us who were graced to see it first hand.

Now really, don't you think he had to partake in some kind of anti-self-conscious substance backstage? Someone, somewhere has a tape of him dancing even though it was agya to destroy it. We need it.

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Date: Tues, Jan 22, 2002 at 22:02:39 (EST)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: The Maharaji of Malibu...
Subject: Re: is viscious yet comical
Message:
I've got one (Holi, 1979).
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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 10:42:53 (EST)
From: Pullaver
Email: None
To: The Maharaji of Malibu...
Subject: Re: is viscious yet comical
Message:
The strange part is that I presumed that a realized master who was in tune with the tao would be all fluidity and grace - well he sure shattered that concept. More like one of those bobble head toys you see on people's dashboards.
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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 11:10:15 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Pullaver
Subject: Viscious? as in Sid Sticky? which reminds me
Message:
'I don't care if it rains or freezes
Long as I have my plastic Jesus
Riding on the dashboard of my car
Through my trials and tribulations
And my travels through the nations
With my plastic Jesus I'll go far

Plastic Jesus, plastic Jesus
Riding on the dashboard of my car
I'm afraid he'll have to go
His magnets ruin my radio
And if I have a wreck He'll leave a scar

Riding down a thoroughfare
With his nose up in the air
A wreck may be ahead but he don't mind
Trouble coming He don't see
He just keeps his eye on me
And any other thing that lies behind

Plastic Jesus, Plastic Jesus
Riding on the dashboard of my car
Though the sunshine on His back
Make Him peel, chip and crack
A little patching keeps Him up to par

When pedestrians try to cross
I let them know who's boss
I never blow the horn or give them warning I ride all over town
trying to run them down
And it's seldom that they live to see the morning

Plastic Jesus, Plastic Jesus Riding on the dashboard of my car His halo fits just right
And I use it for a sight
And they'll scatter or they'll splatter near and far

When I'm in a traffic jam
He don't car if I say 'damn'
I can let all sorts of curses roll
Plastic Jesus doesn't hear
For he has a plastic ear
The man who invented plastic saved my soul

Plastic Jesus, Plastic Jesus
Riding on the dashboard of my car
Once His robe was snowy white
Now it isn't quite bright
Stained by the smoke of my cigar

If I weave around at night
And the police think I'm tight
They'll never find my bottle though they ask Plastic Jesus shelters me
For his head comes off you see
He's hollow and I use Him for a flask

Plastic Jesus, Plastic Jesus
Riding on the dashboard of my car
Ride with me and have a dram
Of the blood of the Lamb
Plastic Jesus is a holy bar'.

['Plastic Jesus', circa 1969, sign-on song of disk jockey Don Imis]

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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 12:13:58 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Cool Hand Luke, 1967 (OT)
Message:
In ''Cool Hand Luke'' released in 1967, Paul Newman sang that song, strumming an old guitar (minus the Don Imis parodied words). I think it's the only movie in which Newman sang.

Newman, as Cool Hand Luke, was in a prison work camp and found out his mother had died, so he walked over to his bunk and sang that song. Then the warden, afraid he would try to escape to his mother's funeral, threw him in the box for about a week. But Cool Hand Luke always escaped.

Cool Hand Luke is one of my husband's favorite movies, that's how I know. If it's on tv, he has to watch it.

Great movie if you've never seen it. I don't know the origins of that song...it's funny either way.

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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 11:48:43 (EST)
From: Pullaver
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Hoo-Ha! Thanks, Honk if you . . .(nt)
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 10:17:51 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: The Maharaji of Malibu...
Subject: I have such a tape
Message:
Miami at about 1981. Lots of Bhole Shriing, and a quick sway at the end in his mala. When time and resources allow, I'm sure it will make it's way on to EPO.

John

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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 09:11:54 (EST)
From: From LIG
Email: None
To: All
Subject: The CAT SPEAKS
Message:
threatening with coming back with some allies to???

Posted: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 02:36:26 (EST)
Original: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 03:58:32 (EST)
Posted by: Catweasel Recipient: Catweasel
Email Address: Not Provided
Browser Type: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows 98; DigExt)

Subject: Re: Forum 7
Message:

I'd like to thank eveyone along the way who have helped me in the pursuit of this GREAT HONOUR!
Being banned from F7 is trully magnificent. I want to thank my manager, the guys in my support band (hey DR!) and the incredible stupidity of the X community. With out that last ingredient none of this could have happened.
Ahhh banned again! It's like an old comfortable over coat.
When they realised I wasn't Derek, it was pointless to continue promoting the weird interaction they enjoy so much.
Catweasel WILL return, only next time he may well bring a whole army of wizards to assist in spellcasting over there.

To the bozo's who think they can bounce us around cyberspace,just wait a while.
There is no need for anything underhand and illegal.Have you (Gerry and John) thought of how unmanageable your site (F7) would become if just 50 people from each major city where people enjoy K live ,started posting.
Silly,silly little fools.Just remember;

Every dog (and cat!) has his day!

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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 19:36:05 (EST)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: From LIG
Subject: CW's comfort zone
Message:
awful thing about comfort zones is that they eventually become numbing and with the process of numbing comes a slow deadening of thinking and a warping of passion.

I see him wearing a home made Catweasle cloak and mask, (black, whiskers, pointy black ears, slitted eyes, tight shiny black lurex body stocking with EV insignia on the breast) standing on his kitchen table, legs apart, slightly intoxicated with himself, making melodramatic sweeps with his cloak, and a few raggle-taggle people sitting in the audience saying, like impressionable four years olds, 'hey wow CW you're really cooool'. A kitchen superhero with a homemade costume. And the people say: 'Hey, who is Catweasle? Who is the masked avenger? Who is the Weasle that walks in cyberspace? Is it integrity, is it the truth? No, it's Catweasle!'

Maybe I should hire him for my son's next birthday party.

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Date: Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 22:19:12 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: That's VERRRYYYY funny!
Message:
Hi Abi,

I owe you an email. Coming right up.

That's hilarious!

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Date: Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 17:47:31 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: This is histerical [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 13:15:53 (EST)
From: housemum
Email: None
To: From LIG
Subject: Re: The CAT SPEAKS
Message:
It's probably the Mum in me, but I feel sorry for CW. He (I assume it's a HE) sounds like an angry little boy who's been sent home from his friend's party because he can't behave himself. 'I'm coming back with my friends and THEN you'll see.' Being a premie never did much to promote maturing to age level
---
the reason why we've all been playing catchup ever since.
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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 07:34:13 (EST)
From: ExP
Email: ex_premie@yahoo.com
To: All
Subject: 25 years of resistance ....
Message:
ON ELK

---

---

---
-
Some words on my experience today (14 January 2002).

After 25 years of resistance to my master and his message, I decided to take his advice, and to honor the promise he asked me to make when I received Knowledge, and that advice was to accept the master and his message and my experience of Knowledge, whatever it was.

When I sat down to meditate on a regular basis and was ready to give Knowledge 'a fair chance', I was astounded. I found I had been given a gift so precious, as to be without price. Incredibly it also increases in value with each breath. I also found I had been given unlimited wealth even though I had very little money.

My feet had been shod in the finest leather, and I was given a front row seat to a passion play, in which I also had a small part. The drama of life unfolded full of love, pathos, grace and everything else imaginable, and is still going on as I write these words. I am astounded, dumbfounded, breathless, and in awe. How can I thank my master for such a gift? What words can I say, what deed can I do to show my appreciation, when I know that whatever I do, an act of greatness, or a humble appreciation of this gift in silence, it shall fail to match the magnitude of his gift. I have found, surprisingly, that rather than being frustrated by this fact, it makes me want to try to do so anyway, even more. Thank you Maharaji. Thank you Sri Maharaji, and thank you all you masters who have gone before for sharing this bountiful message with us. I am forever in your debt.

David Pansa
Utica, NY, USA

---

---

So David, do tell. What made you have 25 years of resistance?

The experience of 'love, pathos, grace' is yours and yours alone. You are your own master - don't you see that?

Really David - give us some clue as to why (and how) you attribute it to the Malibu Perfect One.

Love ExP

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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 11:00:58 (EST)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: ExP
Subject: This is the kind of humor that says...
Message:
so much.

It seems that the current trend the last few years has been for the premies to try to emulate m by waxing poetic.
Once m started with the poetry, the premies tries to follow his lead, and now all of a sudden, everyone's an aspiring poet.

I think it's because no one has anything to say,no experience to talk about, so the mystical poets corner is suddenly in full bloom.

I can't help but LOL as these poor premies try to manufacture a mystical experience from doing these 4 techniques.

Why don't they just say that it gives them a little bit of peace at best, and tell the truth, instead of all the flowery nonsense?

It tells a lot.....

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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 16:25:41 (EST)
From: ExP
Email: ex_premie@yahoo.com
To: la-ex
Subject: Re: This is the kind of humor that says...
Message:
Bingo!
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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 06:31:28 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Ashram policy - NOT the mahatmas' fault
Message:
Just had to bring this to everyone's attention. It's Dermot's reply to a post of mine below.

The Ashram Manual states

'The Ashram policy is determined by Guru Maharaj Ji. The Ashram Supervisor is directly
responsible to Guru Maharaj Ji for the maintenance of every aspect of ashram life'.

Wait a goddamn minute, we all know Guru Maharaji (Maharaji) was not involved in any of this
stuff. It was just our crazy trip....we OVERSTATED his role. That's what Glen et al tell us.
They can't possibly be lying.

Cheers

Dermot

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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 07:46:58 (EST)
From: Monty
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Strange feelings
Message:
funnier than Python - from Ashram Manual

'when a car passes right there in front of an ashram, the driver feels some strange feeling in his tires ' The Big M hisself.

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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 15:22:27 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Monty
Subject: It happened all the time
Message:
The number of auto accidents caused by wobbly tires in front of Mahararji's ashrams led to the injuries and deaths of thousands of people around the world. Jagdeo kept the statistics, but concluded that the world was so confused, it blamed the accidents on defective Firestone Tires. Remember the big Firestone tire recall in the 70s? Right, it was the ashrams, not the tires. JadDEO, D-Ay-Ay-Ohh. :)
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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 09:08:19 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Monty
Subject: Pythonesque only in hindsight, Monty ...
Message:
Here's the Goo, giving premies the low-down on ashram non-democracy:

'Why should there be so much strictness? We are the children of God, and this is the house of God. That's why there should be so much strictness.

That's the way it has to be, that's why. So that's what I wanted to make clear about it.'

and:

'Now you see, God is the controller, it is His control trip.'

Blimey. Hypocritical, fascistist, avoiding his own responsibility or what? (maybe all three, and more). Maharaji ('Guru is greater than God') saying that God is on a control trip ???

My mind boggleth over to think that I once fell for this crap.

One final gem:

'An appeal may be made by any member who is asked to leave by submitting a written request for consideration to the Board of Directors. If any member is still dissatisfied, a written request for further consideration can be made to Guru Maharaj Ji.'

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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 18:27:35 (EST)
From: PatD
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: It's the John Bull Printing Set religion
Message:
God as retarded adolescent playing at being the boss. Only problem,he was the boss. No wonder when he'd grown up a bit he decided to try & burn all that embarrassing evidence of what a total prat he'd been at 16, or whenever he said & wrote that garbage.

He had the sucker punch though:the shaman meditation techniques.

Thanks for digging out that stuff on the origins below;very interesting. I think we need to remind ourselves that falling for the crap involved a lot more than just believing the words that came out of his mouth.

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Date: Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 15:17:27 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: PatD
Subject: yeah - printed with invisible ink! (nt)
Message:
yeah - printed with invisible ink!
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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 15:09:13 (EST)
From: housemum
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: thank you for this
Message:
Reading the Ashram policy you provide in the above link is so validating. Before we moved in, we had to sign an agreement to all of those rules and to the vows of poverty, chastity and obedience. And we did it because we loved the goo and he told us this was the best way to serve him.
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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 21:58:42 (EST)
From: Bai Ji
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Forum and Website Link ..
Message:
Seems to be down at present as well. Could this be linked to EPO problems?
By the way, thank you for all your hard work here.It is greatly appreciated by me.
Love Bai
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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 19:34:54 (EST)
From: norm
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Atlanta Training Video
Message:
I've heard about this video... where can i find it?
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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 18:15:34 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Is EPO still missing?
Message:
What the heck happened. Has someone recovered the page but not installed it. Is everything missing? Would like to know more about what's up!

Thanks,

deborah

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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 08:50:06 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: Re: Is EPO still missing?
Message:
The recent links to EPO pages aren't actually to EPO. Gerry, (bless his cotton socks) recently posted a link (click here) to the Google search engine which, over the years, has taken quite a few 'snapshots' of various EPO pages.

To access them, just click on the word 'cached' in grey under the page description. They may not be the most up-to-date version of the page, but at least it's a good back-up to have while EPO itself is still down.

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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 09:02:20 (EST)
From: magiclara
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Re EPO
Message:
Thanks for that I did not know you had to click on the grey cached word. When I tried before I clicked on the blue bit and got nothing. I am glad you can still get to the stuff on EPO. Not that I need to myself having read every word on it, but I do like to know it's there.
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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 09:11:17 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: magiclara
Subject: Hey, Magic, that's what I thought too -
Message:
- I thought I'd read every word on it. But it seems Jean-Michel has been busier than he lets on.

Good on him!

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 18:20:18 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: I've got it here somewhere
Message:
Deborah,

It will be back, bigger and better than ever, in the next few days. The reason for the delay is that we're putting in certain security features to prevent the attacks that occured before Christmas and last weekend.

John.

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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 01:39:27 (EST)
From: silvia
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Re: I've got it here somewhere
Message:
Hi JHB,

what happened last weekend?

(Deborah, I do not have your e=mail address anymore; give me yours.)

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 18:39:04 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Re: I might have a lead for you
Message:
Watch your email.
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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 18:13:59 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: kevjo@mindspring.com
To: All
Subject: Why being a premie 'feels good'
Message:
The main reason premies will tell you that they follow Maharaji is that it makes them happy, indeed, some say it makes them so happy they are eternally grateful and do not even have words for how happy and grateful they are.

Where does this come from? I think it comes from the concept of 'conversion' which is a process that takes someone from uncertainly to 'certainty' or at least what looks like certainty. It is a very transformative experience to believe that you now have the answer, the essence the thing and the 'master' to hang onto.

Here is how Kramer and Alstad describe it in The Guru Papers on page 56:

So disciples believe they are loved unconditionally, even though this love is conditional on continued surrender. Disciples in the throes of surrender feel they have given up their past, and do not, consciously at least, fear the future. . . Feeling totally cared for and accepted, at the universe’s center, powerful, and seemingly unafraid of the future are all achieved at the price of giving one’s power to another, thus remaining essentially a child.' (p56)

I think it's a pretty powerful thing, but it's belief, it is not 'experience.' One of the reasons premies can get blissed out by seeing Maharaji at some event, is that they get a strong dose of reinforcement to their belief that it really is true, that you have the truth, someone is taking care of you in some ultimate sense, you do not have to worry about the future or your place in it, at least ultimately, and you have the answer.

I think if you believe that, you can get blissed out. I think, in my experience, that's what happened to me. It was especially strong in the early years, because not only did I get "the answer," I also dumped all the rest of my life, with all its confusions and uncertainties, and that was somewhat of a relief.

At some point, however, I stopped believing it. I can't say exactly when that was, I guess it was gradual. But when I no longer believed it, no matter how much meditation or darshan I had, it no longer had that effect on me. It wasn't negative (except to the extent I was frustrated that it didn't work), it just didn't give me that reassuring feeling that everything would be fine.

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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 09:53:27 (EST)
From: Eric
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: Why being a premie 'feels good'
Message:
Very well stated, Joe.Here is how Durga Ji ( Marolyn Johnson Rawat ) tried to explain how to 'feel good'. 'I think everyone understands that it's time to really, really get strong.I don't know what the future holds for us,but I know that we must really get strong now. It's so important.This is the way you tie yourself to his feet. And that can never be broken, if you completely prostate your everything at his feet and just say ' Keep me there'. ..........There's nothing that you should give your energy to but what Maharaj Ji set out.Then everything will be taken care of perfectly. Then the satisfaction, and the contentment, and the fullfillment that comes with fullfilling what you're to do, what your purpose, what your goal on earth is , is complete. You know that this is what you're here for.**From 'AND IT IS DIVINE' Nov. 1974 With Guru Maharaj Ji ....Supreme Editor in Chief ..............................The message of Maharaj Ji and his minions has always been be trusting (like a little child ) and abdicate respondsibility for your life and thought process to the all powerful divine father, Maharaj Ji. This brain washing and programming continues in different guises and agenda's year to year.When one wakes up and takes charge of his life himself, the yoke of this master / ignorant devotee is destroyed and freedom and self-empowerment is the result. WE were never meant to be non-thinking robotons waiting to hear crumbs of borrowed spiritual platitudes and relish in the prison of our cult addictions .maharaj ji and his abusive, meglamaniacle belief system will not endure just as the darkness of night is dispelled by the radiant sunrise. Wishing everyone wellness.... E.
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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 13:29:22 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: Kevjo@mindspring.com
To: Eric
Subject: Brilliant, Eric
Message:
Some of those Durga Ji satsangs were the most intense, because of who she was. It would appear that she was either the most programmed, or part of the whole operation.

Eric, do I know you? I've included my email if you like.

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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 13:08:50 (EST)
From: housemum
Email: None
To: Eric
Subject: tie yourself to his feet
Message:
Great posts, Joe and Eric. I don't mean to be glib or redundant, but if you read the literature on why, in the S/M community, subs are so happy being subs, you will find such analogous descriptions to those of premies. Giving up control and power to be taken care of by an all-knowing force, and hoping that the Master (the term used by subs of their dominant partner) will be benevolent, but if they aren't, then it's because the sub has in some way displeased the Master and must learn a lesson.

Okay, move over Sigmund. The erotic element is manifest in so many facets of goo worship (cf. Theresa of Avila, et al). And the combination of being infantilized and eroticized is powerful hoo-doo. Speaks to our most primitive brain.

Hey, I just figured out that OT means Off Topic. Right? I'm getting the hang of this forum thang.

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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 13:35:19 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: kevjo@mindspring.com
To: housemum
Subject: Erotic, infantile, submission
Message:
I think many of us, at times, have felt the excitement of vulnerability and submission in sex. The difference is, once the sex is over, so is the submission. Unless two people get into some kind of weird role-play outside the bedroom, that's where it ends, and it doesn't invade your brain like submission to a 'master.'

But I also think you are right about the infantalized eroticism does exist as an element in the Maharaji cult. I remember we used to sing that song to M at festivals; 'Rock Me Maharaji and Roll Me Tonight' and the next line was 'So rock me Maharaji and say it's all right' (actually say it's all r-i-i-i-i-i-i-ght, it's all R-i-i-i-i-i-i-ght).

Hey no sexual overtones, there, right? Not to mention infantalism in the sense of wanting your father to both be sexual with you, and also tell you the parental 'everything will be all right.' Erotic, incestuous, infantalism.

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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 19:22:30 (EST)
From: livia
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: Erotic, infantile, submission
Message:
I remember that song well - it was written by Sandy Lowenthal, cellist of Blue Aquarius. He was a singer/songwriter before his premie days and the song dates back to then. The words were originally written with a woman in mind. Same thing with 'Oh Maharaji' the song by Ritchie Ingui who was in the 'Soul Survivors' before Blue Aquarius. So I wouldn't read too much into the sexual implications in the lyrics - the songs were just lifted virtually verbatim. Sorry to be pedantic, but facts are important! However, I suppose the point is that the words were nonetheless considered appropriate to leave as they were, which is, I suppose, odd.

with love, Livia

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Date: Sun, Jan 20, 2002 at 14:07:04 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: livia
Subject: Disagree, Livia
Message:
I was just using the song as a minor example about something that was a much large, and pervasive, element of the master/devotee/submission/surrender milieu. I don't think it matters all that much what the writer of the song was thinking when he wrote it, but rather that the song took on a new (pyschological) meaning in the context of Maharaji. I think that might be what you were getting to in the last line of the quote.

A number of other songs, some of which weren't even written by premies, were used in the same way.

I think the whole idea of submission and asking Maharaji to 'roll you' and 'say it's all right' went right in line with the sexual overtones of the devotees being essentially children and Maharaji the father, who could be fantasized about as some kind of perfect lover, and in fact his entire purpose was to say there was a simple solution to all problems -- that it's 'all right.'

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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 17:07:36 (EST)
From: ExP
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: Erotic, infantile, submission
Message:
Beware Joe,

Salam may be onto your case soon. References to this taboo subject seemed to have hit a red button for Salam.

Actually being called a nerd was a compliment - I never thought of myself so highly.

Love
ExP

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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 14:08:37 (EST)
From: housemum
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: Erotic, infantile, submission
Message:
Hey, I'm all for sexual adventure in anyway it's pursued (this post will ensure my anonymity forever), my concern is that the impulses which make S/M yummy with partners are used covertly to seduce and hypnotize the followers of the goo. Because we are all sexual beings, and sex is separated from the spiritual in our culture, the rhetoric of seduction, submission, sacrifice, pleasure, conversion, romance, etc, SEEM to be only about one thing (devotion to the goo) when actually they speak (in our minds) to all parts of us. Hence, 'Rock me Maharaji' sounds like a raucus roll in the hay with the chubby one. (Hey, I hope he's good at something....)
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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 21:46:01 (EST)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: housemum
Subject: Supposedly he's completely crap in bed (nt)
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sun, Jan 20, 2002 at 05:14:23 (EST)
From: Thelma the Thunderstealing astrologer
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: Re: Supposedly he's completely crap in bed (nt)
Message:
Sagittarius Rooster - slam bam thank you mam.

Actually they don't say thanks but just wipe it off and go back to the serious business of scheming.

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Date: Sun, Jan 20, 2002 at 17:11:17 (EST)
From: Steve Mueller
Email: None
To: Thelma the Thunderstealing astrologer
Subject: Re: Supposedly he's completely crap in bed (nt)
Message:
Sagittarius Rooster - slam bam thank you mam.

Actually they don't say thanks but just wipe it off and go back to the serious business of scheming.


---

You do understand the implications of M's natal Venus in Aquarius being very nearly perfectly square (two degrees shy of 90 degrees) to his Neptune in Scorpio, don't you? You don't? Look into it. Explains a lot of about his behavior. (Got your curiosity up, Thelma? You can take it offline with me at mistyqm@mn.mediaone.net if you like.)

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Date: Sun, Jan 20, 2002 at 19:37:31 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Steve Mueller
Subject: Why not discuss it on Chit-chat forum?
Message:
There's a bunch of people who would be interested. I know what Venus in Aquarius means but not the square to Neptune. I will look it up.

BTW I am not a believer in astrology but a researcher. ;)

PatC aka Thelma the Thunderstealing Bitch. :C)

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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 12:16:05 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Eric
Subject: Re: Why being a premie 'feels good'
Message:
Hi Eric,

I really liked your post. I hope you're well...

Best,
Cynthia Gracie

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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 10:24:13 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Eric
Subject: 'prostate'? - 'prostrate' for f**k's sake!(nt)
Message:
'prostate'??? she must've meant 'prostrate' for f**k's sake!(nt)
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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 22:22:33 (EST)
From: Eric
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Re: 'prostate'? - 'prostrate' for f**k's sake!(nt)
Message:
Sometimes a well placed (by accident) typo. can be good for a chuckle among friends!!!!!!
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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 17:59:22 (EST)
From: or maybe just maybe
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: she meant 'aprostate' [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 16:31:12 (EST)
From: OTS
Email: None
To: All
Subject: What I did on my trip to India in 1972
Message:
When I think back to my second overseas trip in my young life, a 21-year-old travelling to India for the first time, basically I just get the urge to go to the bathroom. I was a guest of the Living Lord, Satguru and Perfect Master, soon to become the Maharaja of Malibu, who had come with more power than ever before -- more than Jesus, more than Bud, more than Krishna. And what a host! Some seven Boeing 747 Jumbo Jets filled with hippies and church ladies descended on this Third World power, the largest democracy on earth. (My father, OTS, Sr., asked my hometown friend while I was gone, “Henry, can you tell me why OTS went to India? Did he leave a coat there? A hat?” My Dad, a comedian, was totally stumped as to what possibly was the pull so far away -- what was the matter with the Catskills? Atlantic City?) Maharaji called it “spritiual boot camp” but it was really a physical boot camp -- nothing really spiritual about it. He showed up once in a while, but I guess he couldn’t take the smell either and so he stayed at his birthplace home in Derha Dun during most of my visit.

I was there for two weeks at the Punjabi Bhag Ashram in New Delhi and four weeks at the Prem Nagar Ashram in Haridwar, in the Utter Pradash (e)state. I was there with my friend, “Punjabi Bob” and a few other thousands lost guests who all wondered what the hell they were supposed to do all day now that we’re halfway around the world. I did nothing . . . but lost 25% of my bodyweight. Well, I was busy (detailed below), but I did nothing. We even got to sleep one night on the filthy floors of the Delhi Airport because our return flight was postponed for 24 hours. (I guess we just didn’t call ahead to check our flight status.) Most of us were so sick, we didn’t even care at that point. Nice.

Yes, the country stunk, smelled like dung; yes there were large cows and crowds of kids and humans with large amounts cooking equipment piled on their heads running loose everywhere in the streets, including tons of Tibetan refugees selling knitted hats and sweaters, yes it was hard to breath as there were no paved roads -- only heat and dust; but, yes I felt secure under the auspices of The World Peace Corp. (WPC) and its fearless leader, Philadelphian Steve “Lemon” Moscowitz (a friend of “The Chicken Man,” Phil Testa?), but I digress. In the Andrea Erickson format, let me give you a typical day during my journey to this Far Eastern “holy land.” Let’s start at midnight and work our way around the clock.

12:00 Midnight: Having dressed in all of the clothes I had brought to India all at once, I settled into my thin noninsulated Sears® Junior Scout sleeping bag, which lay on soft dirt in the middle of a large open-sided tent with about 500 other people in rows of dirt trying to sleep while shivering in near freezing temperatures (as we were just at the foothills of the Himalayan mountains). [Almost sounds like the Al Q prisoners at Guantanimo Bay, Cuba, no?] It appeared that much of the loose dirt somehow had miraculously entered my mouth, nose and lungs and made me cough for about four weeks straight without stopping like my fat aunt, OTS, Sr.’s older sister, who smoked three packs a day of Camel-no-filter cigarettes. Black lung, brown lung, red lung -- your call.

12:20 A.M.: Cramps began AGAIN, but I had to ignore them. Too early to start the trek to the latrines. Stare at dirt; continue constant coughing. (Bare light bulbs burned brightly everywhere during the entire four weeks day and night in our romantic hideaway on the Ganges, making it real hard to sleep if you could stop coughing.) Tried to keep my shorts clean. People everywhere were starting to sneeze, cough and vomit at an alarming rate. [By the way, they’ve never heard of “tissues” in India. The sounds were loud and people just couldn’t control themselves or beat their sickness. This lasted all month long.

1:00 A.M.: Weaker and weaker as the cramps became just too much to bear and I was running out of clean underwear by the minute, I began my hourly trek to the latrines and up a wooden ramp, which was like climbing a mountain after a few weeks. The latrines were built by Indian premies to resemble Western toilets (with sitting capabilities), but they were just a little off on their calculations, and, if you sat down on these red brick structures, you had just as a good chance of completing your seated task as you did of falling through the seat hole into the troughs below, which worked as a gravitational irrigation/plumbing system. The shit ran downhill, in short. Therefore, after a few days, we just squatted on top of these brick things like the Indians. Don’t forget, however, that there was no paperwork to complete. Just a clay jar with purple colored disinfectant water to wash you left hand after you were done. Walk slowly back to open-sided tent in the dark cold of night as the cramps stared up yet again even though I just went and hadn’t even gotten back to my sleeping bag yet.

2:00 A.M. - 4:00 A.M.: See 1:00 A.M.

4:30 A.M. Awakened by the mysterious and enchanting sounds of monks throughout the valley praying and singing Arti and other prayers from neighboring ashrams and homes. Another trip to latrines.

5:00 A.M. Kneel under a four-foot high spicket of cold water and “bathe.” Or, if you were a polar bear premie, walk to the Ganges River on the property and dunk yourself in the freezing melted Himalayan snow -- now called the Ganges River. In either case, wash your clothes while their still on your body, wrap yourself in a very used towel and dress for the coming hot and dusty day in as little clothing as possible.

6:00 A.M. Sleep deprived, cranky and cramped, sit down among 500 others for a nice quiet 30 second meditation and then a 59-1/2 minute snorefest.

7:00 A.M. Go get your wheatberries and buffalo milk topped with sugar. Daily. What a buffet treat.

8:00 A.M. After another visit to the latrines (after a few days your hands are almost permanently dyed purple now), get ready for the day. Go to satsang given in Hindi, which I didn’t understand. Four hours of it. But I was told it wasn’t the words, it was the VIBE. Or, listen to Professor Tanden rant and rave in broken English about enlightenment. He was a “householder” premie who ran Divine Light Mission in India and was MataJi’s main flunky. His son, evidently, had hashish smoking problems with the law. He was sort of like the clown act at the Barnamun & Bailey circus. He never got any jokes and was a sort of country bumpkin that we all came to enjoy.

Noon: Lunch, hot chilies, vegetables and dal on rice served on a leaf. No utensils.

12:18 P.M. Run to the latrines.

12:30 P.M. Delirious rest.

2:00 P.M. Visit the Rose Garden and the beautiful premies who tended the roses. Rows and rows of beautiful sweet smelling multi-colored roses. Caught of glimpse of Mata Ji laughing and tossing and re-adjusting her sari over her head, which she did about 45 times an hour. She had a great laugh, but a bitter disposition, it seemed. Played favorites. Could be mean. Liked Professor Tandan. Wore out-dated but fashionable eyewear. Sang like her son (could break a window during the high portion of her rendition of that old spiritual: “Apni Haste”.)

3:00 P.M. After a few stops at the latrines, more incomprehensible Hindi satsang or a Knowledge Review in Hindi, again with no translator. Clear as a bell. The demonstration of the Nectar technique by Mahatma Ramanand while continue to speak in Hindi only should be part of a Saturday Night Live Classic skit.

4:00 P.M. After having delusional cravings for pizza, green peas, oatmeal, a cheese sandwich on toast, tomato soup, anything Western, I stop at the canteen and purchase some Indian-made “Western Potato Salad,” which was made with potatoes, ghee, corriander and love. Sold-out many days in a New York minute.

5:00 P.M. Dinner. See lunch

5:18: P.M. See 12:18 P.M.

6:00 P.M. Dropped dead before satsang for an hour.

7:00 P.M. Satsang time. Perhaps a young Padarthanand in pigeon English or and old Ramanand pulling on his big ears and making faces and laughing for 15 minutes.

9:00 P.M. Arti (15 minutes in Hindi, 15 in English).

9:30 P.M. Chitchat. Jokes. Gopi Gossip amongst ourselves (sample topics included: the infamous suitcase with jewels and watches and cash smuggled into India on one of the Jumbo Jets that the Hindi press caught on to; premies who were sneaking out and smoking dope at the Ashok Hotel in New Delhi, premies who were going into town and buying food to eat off-sight. A real felony.)

10:00 P.M. Final trip of the day to the latrines.

10:30 P.M. Bed time. After the thousands left the big open-sided tent and the dust was sufficiently kicked up so you couldn’t even see the stage any more, it was time to roll out the old Junior Scout sleeping bag and hit the hay, I mean dirt.

11:00 P.M. Meditation on a stick.

11:25 P.M. Pray to Jesus to get me the fuck out of here! Start to cramp up again, but fall asleep with dirt in my tears.

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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 12:47:30 (EST)
From: housemum
Email: None
To: OTS
Subject: memory avalanche
Message:
You started something. Remember those things we used instead of toilet paper? Lotas, I believe. And the left hand/right hand taboo.

When I arrived at Punjabi Bagh, this mahatma came up and pranamed to me and my baby and said (supply accent) 'I remember your baby from its last life. It was a great mahatma! It has come home.' A lot of the mahatmas I met had been followers of our goos father and hadn't spent time with da lil goo. They just showed up for the westerners.

Remember those tongue scrapers?

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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 11:07:08 (EST)
From: Carl
Email: None
To: OTS
Subject: Random memories of 1972 India trip
Message:
Yes, the spicy smoky dirty fragrant air. Can't ever forget it.

Pandemonium at the airports, the 'in-charge-jis' running around oh so self-importantly.

Lots of bindis and tilaks on the foreheads of many of the premies. So earnest, so sincere, so foolish, so doomed.

Later, mahatmas everywhere, down from the hills, in from the hinterlands, and in such variety of hairstyle, or lack of same. The color of their saffron robes varied as well, some washed out, some vivid, one or two yellow, and also with the white-robed mahatmas-in-training, or almost-mahatmas. There was that westernized Indian mahatma -- Ashokanand? -- who always looked extremely worried to me. He had written a longish intellectual poem that got distributed, all about the mind being like a two-way mirror.

There was an ancient yellow-robed mahatma, who also wore very thick lensed black-rimmed glasses, who hobbled into view now and then. It was whispered both approvingly and incredulously that he hadn't ever 'expelled semen' in his whole life. He was venerated on that account, apparently. He didn't appear to be in the greatest of health, in my opinion.

There was the time an Indian premie brother literally took me by hand, as in hand-in-hand, to walk about the grounds on some errand. I was a bit abashed at that, my western-enculturated homophobia not yet burnt away. And he was rather cute, too, so I was struggling with that. It may have been the first microscopic creak of the opening closet door, I don't know.

At Prem Nagar there was an effort to control our energies into varieties of 'service'. I worked for a while in the sick tent, slinging inexhaustible buckets of diarrhea out to the brick shit sluices out back for disposal. I figured that service might 'please the Lord' (Who knows all things as Witness to my every move and every thought), to see how nobly I had sacrificed my reluctance and ego, as in the satsang story we were frequently told of the king who had to do a similar penance for years before receiving knowledge in the ashram of his guru, and who was rewarded with a bucket of shit 'accidentally' dumped over his head by the guru's wife, the king uncomplaining and even rejoicing in his great fortune, having successfully passed his 'test'. I considered myself lucky.

I remember lingering over the scriptural sayings and quotes painted in black along the sides of the silvery driveway border stones, leading up to the little fountain with a ceramic four-faced deity sitting on a lotus. I don't remember any water spouting in the fountain; it seemed dry and grimy as I recall.

There was an occasion when we were gathered outside the ashram for darshan of Mata Ji. She had Jacques Sandoz sing his damn 'Fly Away' song over and over. There also was a hefty hearty western premie who had a singularly booming laugh whom she compelled to repeat his laugh on demand any number of times, long after the spontaneity left the moment. It was cute for about five seconds, then it became painful and embarrassing to watch and hear. I felt sorry for that guy. But it was 'show and tell', time to strut our stuff, I guess.

There were the meditation sessions in the main hall of the Prem Nagar ashram, with the (to my taste) rather messy and cluttery altar/stage, what with all the spangles, and photos, chairs, and 'Christmas tree lights' and assorted pots and trays and glittering paraphernalia. That was the first place I remember consciously 'leaving my body' in a meditation. It was an OBE for sure, but I didn't get too far, just hovering and looking around in the ceiling area of that room, for a while, just enough to be undeniable, but not controllable. I was a bit wobbly on my wings, so to speak.

There was the ongoing anxiousness to actually have 'close darshan' of M. I seem to remember only a little bit, on the roof where he mainly hung out if he was there. Access to the roof was carefully guarded by a phalanx of basically friendly but very serious security types. Rank and file premies would linger and press and try to insinuate themselves into that holy-of-holies, by strategem or bribe or quickness.

Once I got lucky, and M was up there playing around with some toy airplanes or balloons or something, with BBJ and maybe Bhole Ji. I thought I detected a sort of halo around their heads, against the clear blue background sky that day. I focussed on their eyes, looking for some recognition, connection, significance or love, or something, but didn't seem to personally connect. One thing I did notice was how concentrated they were, even in the midst of 'playing', as though they were on their own wavelength, and we all were just so much inconsequential background noise. To be fair, I grant how hard it would be to live amongst thousands of slobbering sychophants without putting up some sort of barriers. I don't think I could stand it.

I remember walking into downtown Haridwar, and feeling the oddness of being stared at by the indigenous passersby as a real curiosity: I may as well have had two heads painted green and blue for all the staring and giggles. Little kids would trail along beside me and try to practice their English, sentences involving pencils and books on the table.

There was the wizened old fellow in a scruffy turban, chin glistening with silver stubble, who came up to me and said, with the biggest most heartwarming smile, 'Meet to glad you!'

It took me a number of years to realize what a wonderful philosophy of life that was, however unintended was its first expression!

Best wishes from Carl
[ Carl ]

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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 16:44:49 (EST)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Carl
Subject: Ha!
Message:
Yeah Joe's right Carl....a really good read.

Cheers

Dermot

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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 15:11:38 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Carl
Subject: You are a great writer, Carl
Message:
Carl,

I always love to read what you write because you do it so well. Are you a writer by profession?

Thanks for the great insights and descriptions.

Joe

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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 13:55:42 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Carl
Subject: Great story, Carl, but link doesn't work [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sun, Jan 20, 2002 at 16:38:46 (EST)
From: Carl
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Sorry folks, there is no link
Message:
By mistake I wrote my name in the wrong window, and it wouldn't delete when I tried to edit it away after the initial posting. Sorry for the confusion.

P.S. to Joe: Most of my writing has been business-oriented, although lately I've started to branch out into other areas.

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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 18:16:39 (EST)
From: Marshall
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: It works for me, Pat. (nt)
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 19:37:26 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Marshall
Subject: You're kidding me, Marshall???!!
Message:
The url is incomplete. Or am I just hallucinating today?
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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 20:41:17 (EST)
From: Marshall
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Re: You're kidding me, Marshall???!!
Message:
Pat,
You're right.
I've realised that I've mixed Carl's link up with CQ's picture of the beach in Goa, Carls link doesn't work for me either so, nevermind.
I'm the one who is hallucinating!

Take care, Marshall

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Date: Sun, Jan 20, 2002 at 05:18:17 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Marshall
Subject: Hallucinating, Marshall?
Message:
Well the pic of Goa is enough to make you hallucinate. A lot of that took place there. :C)
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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 07:17:12 (EST)
From: Sulla
Email: None
To: OTS
Subject: Re: How much $$$$?
Message:
Did you have to pay for all that or it was for free?
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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 07:38:52 (EST)
From: livia
Email: None
To: Sulla
Subject: Re: How much $$$$?
Message:
It cost Ł150 English money, which covered everything: return flight, food and 'accomodation' for however long it was - I think it was a month. There wasn't that much food really, but no one starved as far as I know. I agree with someone below who said that whatever else one felt about it, it was a trip to India and a stunning, unforgettable experience of an utterly different world. I often think about it, and I'm glad I went. Even I did come back with dysentry weighing a stone less.
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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 06:29:21 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: OTS
Subject: Sorry I missed it
Message:
It's 3:15 in the morning here in Seattle. Laurie and I came down for a cousin's bar mitzvah (I won't give the address in case the Palestinians are monitoring the forum). Can't sleep, tossing and turning. Laurie's threatening to stay home tomorrow if she can't get her beauty sleep so I snuck in here to check out my sister's computer.

OTS, this, too, is a very funny post. Thanks for the effort. I'd just heard of the Maharaji of Malibu in September, '72, and almost joined that ultimate gambling junket to India. My parents had just split, though, and my mother layed just the right guilt trip on me about leaving her there and then, besides, wasn't I going to university or something?

Um, well I was, mom, but, well, I quit yesterday ...

Anyway, I didn't go but moved out west from Toronto to Vancouver instead. Lost touch with premies but got back into it all in the spring and got kicked into the cult in April. Always wondered what I'd really missed. Thanks for the travelogue. What else you got? I'm up for at least another hour.

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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 06:03:36 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: OTS
Subject: You should have popped down to Goa.
Message:
Hi OTS,

I was in India the same time. We bought a hut on the beach in Goa for about 25 cents. You should have popped down to Vagator beach and shared a chillum or two.

Or maybe Jesus heard your prayer and you did.

Anth, who became ensared later.

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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 09:26:25 (EST)
From: Pullaver
Email: pullaver@yahoo.ca
To: AJW
Subject: Re: You should have popped down to Goa.
Message:
Hi Anth,

Me too. I lived in Goa for about 4 months back in '73. I had heard about Maharaji - actually I'd seen a poster of him in Delhi and someone had drawn a dollar sign over his face - I should have taken the hint. Our hut was on Calengute beach. The main action was over at Arjuna Beach - what with the full moon acid parties, those huge speakers brought down to the beach, hippies dancing naked under the stars. Used to like taking the bus into Panaji for a few quarts of Kingfisher. I had always intended to go back but when I got home to Toronto I got sucked into the post Hans Jayanti ('74) fervour, got k from Rajeshwar, moved into an ashram, and never did get back there. Boom Shankar!

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Date: Sun, Jan 20, 2002 at 15:27:50 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Pullaver
Subject: Memory lane.
Message:
It's all coming back to me...Mapsa market...Panjim Jail...Full moons...folly of youth...

We should have a pint and a natter one day.

Anth, crying in his beer.
Hi Anth,

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Date: Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 01:18:00 (EST)
From: Pullaver
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Kingfishers all 'round . . .
Message:
Beer Prayer

Our Lager,
Which art in barrels,
Hallowed be thy mug.
Thy will be drunk, (I will be drunk),
At home as it is in the pub.
Give us this day our foamy head,
And forgive those who spill against us.
And lead us not to incarceration,
But deliver us from hangovers.
For thine is the ale, the bitter, the lager.

Barmen

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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 10:11:09 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Pullaver
Subject: Re: You should have popped down to Goa.
Message:
Vagator! Anjuna! Mapusa!

Ah, those were the days ('77 - '80 for me). Back then I was a Rajneeshi sanyassin, having dumped the Goo, very publicly (i.e. my de-conversion from M to Rajneesh is written up in one of Rajneesh's published 'darshan diaries' and was commented on in one of his morning discourses). Fame? Infamy? Well, Kipling says they're both imposters.

But, at the end of the day, what was India, but a glorious celebration of sun, sand, and sh .... you know what.
[ Graphic Link ]

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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 17:23:39 (EST)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Rajneesh?...oot of the frying pan into... :) [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 11:29:11 (EST)
From: Pullaver
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Re: You should have popped down to Goa.
Message:
Whut about Colva? Thanks for the pic but where are the hordes of nekkid hippie flesh I remember so fondly? '77-80? wow. Lucky you. Yeah, the Rajneeshis were there in force when I was there - they would pull out amazing choreographed dance and drum routines during the full moon parties. The more circumspect (and modest) Children of God were there too, preparing enormous pots of porridge every few days for those of us crashing from the previous nite's frolic. Apparently we wouldn't recognize the place today - all beachfront hotels and touristy. sob
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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 04:08:33 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: OTS
Subject: 11:00 P.M. Meditation on a stick. LOL, OTS
Message:
I just loved your essay and your sense of humor. What a pioneer you were, bringing the mysteries of the East back to us burnt out western hippies.

It could even have been you who gave me my first serious satsang, or someone like you, fresh from India, obviously exhausted by the adventure, yellow with hepatitis, skin-n-bones from amoebic dysentry but glowing with awe at the holeyness of it all.

Well, at least it was better than going to the local Methodist Church every Sunday and dying of boredom in the apathetic middle-class burbs from which we had escaped. Well, at the time it seemed like that.

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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 01:42:04 (EST)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: OTS
Subject: i.e. amoebic dysentery's got me on da run! [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 21:49:12 (EST)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: OTS
Subject: You're all coming out of the woodwork
Message:
:)

Didn't realise there are so many real ole timers here.

When I got K in Nov 73 I thought I missed out on the real unadulterated bliss of Prem Nagar ashram....glad I never went....seems only Bri Smith got the hang of it :)

Cheers

Dermot

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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 01:44:39 (EST)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: yeah, talk about a shitty vacation! [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 21:25:17 (EST)
From: PatD
Email: None
To: OTS
Subject: Re: What I did on my trip to India in 1972
Message:
Synchronicity OTS, I'm trying to write my journey & have just got around to remembering that particular episode of it.

Getting a haircut 2 days before departure,I got a smile from the horrible cow in the local sweetshop where I bought my daily 10 woodbine cigarettes. She hadn't recognised me.

Digging out the old school blazer,tie and a shirt. Smart was the instruction,God's representatives have to show the hoi-polloi in India that they aren't a bunch of deadbeats.

Had a terrible row with my mother about going , not least because I jacked in a well paid job which I was good at & enjoyed in order to do so.......but when the Pied Piper plays his flute you gotta follow.

My 1st impression of India(the airport)was lots of officials with a nasty attitude & soldiers wierdly kitted out like 2nd W.W Tommies complete with Lee Enfield rifles, 'cept they were brown with turbans.

Camping out in some park in Delhi, that went on for days,I never ventured out of there,I felt like the little kid I saw later in Prem Nagar whose parents I overheard telling him not to be attached to them....dislocated, only I didn't know that's what it was called then. I felt really sorry for that kid & wanted to say so but I didn't.

In retrospect that's when I gave in to the prevailing vibe ,surrendered my own instincts to those of the superior power,went with the flow,accepted moral corruption as part of the unknowable & capricious divine plan. LILA.

Those toilets were a masterpiece & I'm not being facetious,I never knew how long a turd could be until I saw one dangling from some guy's bottom opposite me . Lucky bastard must've had the detachment to stand for 4 hours in the food queue without freaking out.

I was sitting on the bank of the canal outside the back garden one day when Prem Pal suddenly appeared out for a stroll,followed by hundreds of people. He stopped right in front of me & I touched his oxblood patent leather shoes. Nothing. That's my fault,I'm not detached enough to get the Darshan hit.I took a photo,his mouth is turned down & he looks really pissed off.

He was hardly ever there as you say. Once he turned up for 5 mins & then pissed off again,the level of commitment(was that the buzz word then)wasn't right.

Everything you say rings a bell with me. Did you notice the premie rebellion,led by a beautiful dark haired girl from London, which Ashokanand had to spend several days defusing?

The day a large limo came up the drive,rich American parents on a rescue mission. How I admired their nerve.

Yeah that was a mindfuck alright,though I was lucky not to get sick until right near the end.

When we got back to England our plane was quarantined, the toilets had packed up over Arabia,the cabin crew had listened to 8 hrs nonstop satsang. We sat on the tarmac for ages until a guy in uniform appeared in the cabin. I can still remember the shock on his face as he looked at us,then he was down the aisle pointing to people comatose in their seats & instructing the crew.....him,her,not going anywhere,get the rest of them off.

Why did we go on with it? I don't know about you,but for me the golden doughnut inside was the proof that the sulky little bastard who got 2000 people to camp in his back garden & fertilise his roses for free, was God Incarnate.

1973 was wierder.

Great recollection ; Thanks.

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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 04:16:37 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: PatD
Subject: The longest turd? This whole thread ***BEST OF*** [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 20:05:48 (EST)
From: housemum
Email: None
To: OTS
Subject: staten island??
Message:
There was a group of us who were so sick on the jumbo jet home we were quarantined in a Public Health Service Hospital on Staten Island. Anybody else there?

What was the purple stuff we had for washing dishes in Punjabi Bagh, potassium something?

My service was peeling garlic in the food tent. I peeled mountains of garlic, unfortunately I stll got the shits. Remember the street vendors crying 'GORAM CHAI.' The chai on the streets of Delhi and Dehra Dun was the best. Remember how sour the yogurt was?

Yup, I washed my baby's diapers in the Ganges. Smart move, but it was the only place to bathe or do laundry. I did see them carrying a dead person on a stretcher through the streets, but it wasn't a premie. It was a funeral procession.

The food in stalls outside Prem Nagar was great. And every stall owner was a guru, at least that's what they told me.

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 21:54:06 (EST)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: housemum
Subject: All those Gurus
Message:
to pick from and you chose a fake.....duhh!
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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 23:16:32 (EST)
From: housemum
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: Re: All those Gurus
Message:
Yeah and I never saw the dude while I was a guest in his home...actually once he waved to all of us dirt eaters from the top floor of the ashram in Punjabi Bagh. Mata Ji was there, too, she probably made him wave. And of course when he did the krishna hula at the Hans Jayanti dust bowl.

I remember being rebellious and leaving the mob at Prem Nagar to bathe under the fawcets in downtown Dehra Dhun (that's a joke, DD didn't exactly have a 'downtown.') I learned how to bathe fully dressed while squatting on a street corner. See, my time as devotee wasn't a waste.

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 23:28:38 (EST)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: housemum
Subject: All those Gurus... :) [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 18:42:28 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: OTS
Subject: Re: What I did on my trip to India in 1972
Message:
OTS,

Another hindu wobble dance down memory lane.

I flew to India on jumbo D, as it was known. Before the flight, a few of us premies from Tallahassee did a pilgrimage to the DLM New York ashram on West 86th(?). GMJ was about and, Rajeshwar told us to wait for a 'special prasad' from GMJ. We could hear GMJ giggling in another room and, sure enough, Rajeshwar brought out some fudge 'prasad'. Turns out, that trickster satguru of ours had whipped up a batch of chocolate Ex-Lax just for us. What bliss, we all crapped our brains out before getting on the plane and probably avoided Ghandi's Revenge that was visited on many others. Such lila!!!

At Prem Nagar, I used to jump in the Ganges and then soap up with Dr. Bronners' pepermint soap and jump in again to rinse off. The 'sisters' were supposed to bathe fully clothed but once the thin cotton granny dresses and saris got wet, the horny Indian premies would gather in droves to watch and catch a glimpse of pale flesh.

I also slept in that huge tent adjacent to the satsang hall. You'd wake at maybe 3 or 4 am to arti over the tinny speakers coming from countless other ashrams up and down the river. Made me wonder, if this trip is so special, how come everyone else is also singing the same song and who are they singing to?

Yes, the rose garden was nice and I did service folding those tiny little books of Shri Maharaji's quotes from huge broadsheets of paper. These were then collated and hand sewn by the women.

Another memory that should have been a 'drip' at the time happened in Punjabi Bagh ashram near Delhi. After kneeling outside M's door for awhile, Bihari Singh let me crawl in only to see GMJ playing with slot cars for the amusement of a group of PAGM (people around Guru Maharaji).

Food was generally so bland and starchy that one day, as I was walking through Prem Nagar, I had a vision of a cheesebuger with wings flying by. I loved the hand-made roti (chapati), fresh fried vegetable fritters and that huge vat of steaming hot water buffalo milk chai at Prem Nagar. My favorite meal was when Gwen Herrington (another Tallahasse premie) and I had grilled cheese sandwiches and fries at a fancy hotel on Connaught Circle in Delhi. Also the wonderful rose water laced cake and pistachio ice cream in Hardwar.

About the smuggled watches, etc. The official story was that they were gifts for the mahatmas. I recall Bob Mishler announcing that everyone would put all of their spending money in a Divine Bank for safe keeping. Donations were then requested to help out the local premies as they were having a tough time feeding us hungry Westerners. Later, we found out that the cash was used to help deal with bribing customs to ignore the briefcase full of jewelry.

As a life experience, seeing India was definitely outrageous. I saw a world I'll never forget.

Richard

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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 06:36:14 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Hey, Richard, are you in town?
Message:
Richard,

You in town? Free for coffee, perhaps, Sunday afternoon?

If you call my number at home (250) 360-1040 sometime Saturday I'll get the message and will get back to you.

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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 14:12:51 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Jim, check your voice mail.
Message:
I've sent out carrier pigeons to alert the other local operatives. We await your command.

Richard
Pacific Northwest Regional Coordinator and Church Lady Ex-traordinaire

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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 04:27:45 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Too trippy: vision of a cheesebuger with wings
Message:
You guys who went to India really did take a trip and your trips down memory lane are tripping me out right now. This is the real history of the cult not the Passing Gas video. Thanks.
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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 17:32:38 (EST)
From: livia
Email: None
To: OTS
Subject: Re: What I did on my trip to India in 1972
Message:
I was there too. Does anybody remember this? At Punjabi Bagh, before we all went to Prem Nagar, the person I was with said he saw a group of premies carrying this guy out and he was dead. (I just saw someone being carried out with great haste, but wasn't close enough to see if he was dead.) My friend was absolutely positive about this and has maintained it ever since. However, nothing was ever said about it at the time, maybe because he died of a disease and they thought everyone would panic, I really don't know. Does anyone know anything about this? I do recall that there was a bit of a cholera scare one day and I felt quite uneasy for a while because so many of us were getting horribly sick. My service, by the way, was to wash out the clothes of people who had messed themselves. Nice!
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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 16:39:54 (EST)
From: housemum
Email: None
To: OTS
Subject: Re: What I did on my trip to India in 1972
Message:
Almost exactly like my experience there, too, except for the weeks I spent all alone with my child in a Delhi Hospital. Must have been his lila.
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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 01:52:55 (EST)
From: Peg...Thanks OTS,Pat, Richard,Hmum&all
Email: None
To: housemum
Subject: I also thought I'd missed out! [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 17:56:38 (EST)
From: Monty
Email: None
To: housemum
Subject: Luxury
Message:
You were lucky. We lived for three months in a brown paper bag in

a septic tank. We used to have to get up at six o'clock in the

morning, clean the bag, eat a crust of stale bread, go to work down

mill for fourteen hours a day week in-week out. When we got home,

out Guru would thrash us to sleep with his belt!

GC: Luxury. We used to have to get out of the lake at three o'clock in

the morning, clean the lake, eat a handful of hot gravel, go to

work at the mill every day for tuppence a month, come home, and our Guru would beat us around the head and neck with a broken bottle, if we were LUCKY!

TG: Well we had it tough. We used to have to get up out of the shoebox

at twelve o'clock at night, and LICK the road clean with our tongues.

We had half a handful of freezing cold gravel, worked twenty-four

hours a day at the mill for fourpence every six years, and when we

got home, our Guru would slice us in two with a bread knife.

EI: Right. I had to get up in the morning at ten o'clock at night,

half an hour before I went to bed, eat a lump

of cold poison, work twenty-nine hours a day down mill, and pay mill

owner for permission to come to work, and when we got home,

our Guru would kill us, and dance about on our graves

singing 'Hallelujah.'

MP: But you try and tell the young people today that... and they won't

believe ya'.

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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 10:05:04 (EST)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Monty
Subject: except theirs is true and yours isnt
Message:
it's damned crass to take real people's real experience, honestly told in the first person, and invalidate it with this minimizing, for the sake of trying to make yourself look superior, not to mention craving to steal their thunder and get in what you want to be the last word.

live it, before you pipe up to one-up it.

I didn't go to india, but a year later I was living with destitute premies in conditions in new york city that I christened the 'prem nagar sadhu's' austerities:
the unused loft we were given permission to stay in had no hot water and a cement shower stall with no water, period. it was located next to the kitchen sink.
there were ten of us staying there, in one open room.
to bathe, i devised a system for us that consisted of my scavenging the block and vacant lots till i found a broken plastic trash barrel, which i brought home and cleaned with chlorine powdered cleanser, then mended with a hot knife to remelt the plastic where the holes were.
this done, we filled a stew pot with cold water from the kitchen sink, set it on the gas stove to boil, and once it did, poured it into the barrel and repeated the process, pouring a second potful in to the barrel when boiling again. then we poured cold water from the tap slowly into the barrel until it wasno longer scalding to the touch. this signaled the readiness for one persn to begin to bathe in the stall while more water was set on the stove to boil, to replace what the bather used during his or her turn.

to bathe, one stripped and stepped into the empty concrete stall[ which had no door nor curtain], taking a washcloth, soap, shampoo bottle and a large plastic cup or small saucepan as a ladle.
one soaped up with dry skin. there was not enough water to begin by wetting oneself down.
so one dipped a clean washcloth into the hot water, preferably scooped out into the cup or small pot, lathered up the sloth, and set the lather to dry bare skin, and lathered oneself all over in the dry shower stall. one worked from the small personal pot, not the common barrel, to keep the water supply clean.
one lathered oneself and scrubbed for as long as one wished to.
when the soaping phase was done, one wrung out the washcloth of suds over the drain, and then used the cloth to slick off the suds on the skin, repeating from head to toe and wringing out, until all the lather possible was down the drain, and only a film of soapy residue was left on the bare skin.
at this point the bather could justifiably reach for the personal cup, and scoop out one cupful of clean hot water at a time from the commonly prepeared barrel, and pouring skimpily from face, down shoulders, arms, chest, back, stomach, ass, one leg, then the other, could rinse the soap residue cleany from the washed skin. while this went on, hopefully another pot of boiling hot water could be ready to add to the common barrel to replenish the supply.

if one then wished to wash their hair, the procedure was to bend over, scoop hot water from the barrel with the cup, place the cup directly against the scalp and stand up, allowing the wetting water to run slowly into the hair before shampoo. dirty hair could not touch the common barrel water.
once hair was wet, another cupful of hot water could be scooped up, one's preferred shampoo was dripped into the cup of hot water and stirred to mix in, then the same cup to scalp position assumed, and the shampooey liquid slowly dripped out from under the cup down the scalp and hair to saturate.

once this was in the hair, one could step back deeper into the stall and bend over and lather their hair for as long as they liked, until satisfied that their hair was clean. then they squeezed out the lather down the drain, wiped their hands on their damp washcloth to avoid transferring soap to the clean common barrel, and scooped another cup of clean water, bent over, and slowly poured rinse water thru their hair, as few cups as possible, until their hair squeaked clean.
at this pount, if they wished it, and there was water enough to indlge it, you could sciip more cupfuls or a whole potful of clean water out of the hot water barrel, and slowly pour it over your naked self from head to toe, and feel completely rinsed down.
hopefully the stove crew was still bringing more pots of water to boil and pour into the barrel, to replenish the level for those still to come.
once you felt you had rinsed yourself enough, you stepped out and walked across the loft stark naked to get a towel or just to air dry in the summer heat of the city in july, and the next person would get their turn at the same procedure. when you felt done, you took your place in the water heating crew, to ensure that your friends all got their chance to clean up.

the first time, it was laborious. after that, it became routine requiring no thought. and there was zero sexual undercurrent.

in later years, when no facilities were available, I have thrown a cold water hose over a tree branch or a wall and bathed in my clothes [or my skin]under it, outdoors, and whenever i have to do this, i refer to it as 'taking a prem nagar shower'. i have had to do it in the woods, on the way to, and at festivals in miami, here in my yard, and just yesterday morning, when my kid used all the hot water up washing dishes while i was in the bathtub.
a most peculiar variant of this, i devised while living at the rennaissance faire in larkspur colorado--in the woods.

there was a hot and cold water spigot, but no hose or tub, at the center of an island of food stalls. the ground was dirt with some palleting around.

it was damned cold in the mornings.
never one to be a shrinking pussy, I looked around and created myself a solution:
a large cardboard box, such as they sell paper toweling at warehouses, served as the shell or frame support. a large neww trash bag of heavy gauge served as my waterproof liner and bathtub, inside the box. i set the box on a pallet under the two spigots, set the bag inside it and folded it over the top edges to stay open, and proceeded to turn on the hot and cold water and fill the box with hot bath water. at some point, i stripped and stepped into the container and sank down to a crouch, submerging myself as far as possible, beneath the water level. the box held. the bag held. i used the premnagar method to step out, soap down, cup rinse the soap away, and then got back into the box of hot water to rinse, warm up, and yes, luxuriate, such as it was. some others came in and found me back there, and i explained it to them, and invited them to try it themsleves when i was done. for the duration, it was a minor sensation in the camp, for those who knew. the food booths started saving big boxes out back, for the purpose, for those who came to do it at the start of the day.
if i go monthlong camping in the forest again, i will take an inflatable kiddie pool up with me, and empty my tent during the day at the warmest hour, put the pool in my tent, and fill it with hot water from my campfire and cold water from the stream, and have myself a hot bath in the privacy of my own tent, i will probably put my thin foam mat under it to prevent punctures from rocks or sticks under the groundsheet.

you can have it if you think it thru.

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 18:05:45 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Monty
Subject: Effective technique
Message:
Yes, 'Monty' I read the book also. When faced with rumors, one does not deny the basic facts of the rumor but replies with outrageous and exaggerated versions of the rumor instead. The wilder the better.

Of course everyone sees that this new 'rumor' is ridiculous and totally lacking in credibilty. However, the two get linked in the mind of the listener, or the reader. This creates doubt (that ole doubtmaker) by creating this false and misleading association, which is of course the goal of the presentor.

Now most exes will instinctively recognize this for what is is: blatant manipulation. But this tactic is not aimed at ex-premies, but rather fence-sitters. The would-be persuader, most likely a cult member in this case, hopes to convince the unsure reader that the 'rumor' is indeed ridiculous and incredible.

This is another example of the lack of integrity of some of those on Rawat's side of the fence. It also demonstrates their desperation.

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 18:25:26 (EST)
From: Marshall
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Re: Effective technique
Message:
Yep,
Desperate is as desperate does.
Something like that anyway.
I found OTP's story about india to be quite believable and illuminating, and I'd love to hear more from others who made that epic trek to the birthplace of the goo and his scheming family.
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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 18:34:37 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Marshall
Subject: Re: Effective technique
Message:
Well, in this case it may not have been a premie doing this for but rather an ex doing it for humor. Regardless it does have the net effect of lessening the impact of the original story.

It's all in the intent I suppose, but I've been looking for an opportunity to explain this manipulative trick because I've seen it employed here on other threads and was dying to jump on it and point it out.

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 18:17:49 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: I thought it was humor again, Gerry!
Message:
Your points are of course valid, but Monty's post is the text from a classic sketch first performed, I think, by the Monty Python team, but made more famous by being included in Amnesty International's 'The Secret Policeman's Ball' fund raising show. I don't think for one moment he was casting any doubt on OTS's account.

John.

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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 06:08:04 (EST)
From: Monty
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: I never expected the Spanish Inquisition
Message:
Graham Chapman: Trouble at mill.
Carol Cleveland: Oh no - what kind of trouble?
Chapman: One on't cross beams gone owt askew on treddle.
Cleveland: Pardon?
Chapman: One on't cross beams gone owt askew on treddle.
Cleveland: I don't understand what you're saying.
Chapman: (slightly irritatedly and with exaggeratedly clear accent) One of the cross beams has gone out askew on the treddle.
Cleveland: Well what on earth does that mean?
Chapman: *I* don't know - Mr Wentworth just told me to come in here and say that there was trouble at the mill, that's all - I didn't expect a kind of Spanish Inquisition.
(JARRING CHORD) (The door flies open and Cardinal Ximinez of Spain (Palin) enters, flanked by two junior cardinals. Cardinal Biggles (Jones) has goggles pushed over his forehead. Cardinal Fang (Gilliam) is just Cardinal Fang)
....... etc..
...
You're absolutely right JHB. It was never meant to cast any doubts on a tremendously well written account of a lovely Indian holiday.
I know it was true for many of my friends went through it also.
Sorry to cause confusion,
Sincerely,
A Dead Parrot.
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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 10:21:09 (EST)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Monty
Subject: just so long as your'e not
Message:
the dreaded Norwegian Blue. ole Ger has had his devil of a time with that particular parrot, ya know...
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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 18:21:59 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Monty Python? Who's that?
Message:
Before I was Minister of PsyOp Protection and Paranoia Department I was ViceChairman of the Ministry of Silly Walks.

So I really DO know what I'm talking about...

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 16:47:29 (EST)
From: Vicki
Email: None
To: housemum
Subject: What Fun!
Message:
And to think, all these years I really thought I missed out on something because I received knowledge in '74. I remember John Hampton telling the story of how the premies were warned not to eat food off site, but he and the then Marolyn Johnson went out and ate to their heart's content among the stalls on the streets. She never got sick, so full of grace and everything, even in those days.....
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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 19:30:23 (EST)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: A appreciation of Indian Food
Message:
best describes what I accomplished on my journey to India 72. I had never before tasted Indian food and I learned to love it.

When they passed down the directive to not eat indian food off site, I ignored it, I had discovered the food in punjab New Dehli. I was already going into Hardwar to this lovely little open faced reastaurant almost daily and for 1 rupie (25 cents exchange rate at that time) I could get a several course Indian meal served on this huge metal plate with chutneys and chapaties cooked in a huge hot tandoori oven served with as much chai as you could drink to wash it all down.

I loved it, and I ate it the Indian way, spicy hot as hell, and the locals loved me for showing such a genuine affection for their food. My friend Tom and I were invited to the home of one of the men there that I had met in the cafe for a real honest to goodness Indian feast. The food and the graciousness of his family was heavenly, If I could only remember his wife's receipe for curried okra, (the one and only time in my life that I enjoyed eating okra).

At least the food was authentic, which is more than I can say for the rest of the story of my involvement with the cult and m.

By the way, I did not get sick while in India, I stayed healthy and strong all the way up to the end of the trip. My service was to physically assist and sometimes even carry the weakened premies unable to walk to the latrines and back.

I regularly ate off site plus I bathed daily in the polluted silty waters of the incredibly cold and swift river Ganges. By doing those things against the advice of the cult and m in hindsight I see was the best thing I could have done. I think I probably acclimated my body's immune system by subjecting myself to the full local dose of the dreaded microbes and I built up a natural resistance.

When in Rome do as the Romans do, even if that means getting used to very hot spicy food. Besides that I did not see many of the local Indians sick and the premies were falling like flies doing what they were told to do.

The bland way the ashram prepared meals "to suit the western palate and stomach" paled in comparision to the real thing. So I continued eating off site developing an appreciation for authentic Indian food, I still have it once or twice a week to this day.

I venture to say ignoring the advice of the cult leader then as now turned out to be the best thing for a healthy result in my life. M presents a big obstacle, a big falsehood in the path to ones personal development.

I say Focusing on him as some sort of diety or master is sick and inauthentic and robs me of my personal potential for my own self awareness.

I have found in leaving m behind that all of the food that I need for my own personal spiritual nourishment I can prepare for myself in my own homecooked healthy style.

Brian the healthy and happy gourmet

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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 07:52:12 (EST)
From: Sulla
Email: None
To: Brian Smith
Subject: I bet M put some ex-lax in that food
Message:
Isn't it extrange that nothing happen to you while the ones who follow the rules got sick?
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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 19:54:26 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Brian Smith
Subject: I'll vouch for Brian's appetite...
Message:
quite healthy indeed. We had lunch together yesterday in a Mexican restaurant.

'Caliente, caliente' was the order of the day. Of course we completed secrets plans for the secret Pacific North cell of the org to implement phase two of the secret plot.

gerry--I think I've lost the plot...

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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 04:19:24 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Re: I'll vouch for Brian's appetite...
Message:
I'm really pleased, Gerry, that you got to meet the beautiful Brian Smith. If you liked him as much as I do then we have the same taste in people.
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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 14:56:57 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Trouble brewing in SF community
Message:
This message was posted on Life is Great by a premie whom I know. I heard about this incident a few weeks ago.
[ Page Link ]
[ Graphic Link ]
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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 14:59:28 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Oops! Here's the link.......
Message:
.....and the text incase I get it wrong again:

is there anyone out there who is aware of the fact that Elan Vital has said that Prem's videos may not be shown in public without permission. my question is 'permission from WHOM?' this smelllsss an awful lot like old tricks from Divine Light Mission personalities, who, while not mentioning names, could be said to be DEADER THAN A DOORNAIL.etc etc ad nauseum. but i still have to remember this is all just LILA and enjoy the game. i did call the US Army recruiter the other day. but haven't returned his call yet.
i had been playing Prem's videos on San Francisco public access cable since last March. EV finally found out about it recently and wrote a nice letter to the SF Community TV Director threatening lawsuit-copyright enfringement. so, needless to say, i had to stop. so now, the terrorists have nothing to watch while they'e waiting to execute their next assignment here in San FRancisco. i really think this is a matter of self defense. i still have my show, 1st and 3rd wednesdays at 4:30 pm pst, but i'm at a loss of what to do that can top Prem's satsangs. i have emailed him several times about the situation, and he was here a week after. i was so relaxed at the program, and he said 'no enlightenment questions' so i figured he didn't want to get into anything heavy. so i just kept my mouth shut and listened to all the other crazy premies crying and moaning about how happy and grateful they are. i guess that means that 3,000 people murdered in New York means there's 3,000 less people you have to claw your way over to get to the 'lotus feet'. me, angry? why would anyone think that? and i don't think i'm under any illusions that this fucking lila shit IS really boot camp......... any suggestions for the day, PREM, darling, you evil bastard?
[ propagation ]

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 15:45:35 (EST)
From: housemum
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Re: Oops! Here's the link.......
Message:
I'm confused (sorry I'm new around here) what Forum is that *Life is Great*? Are those Premies? Happy buggers, aren't they? And I'm also confused about the revisionism. Please someone help me get this straight: goo's not god, or satguru or perfect master, BUT everything is still attributed to his LILA????? That doesn't make sense. What do they think: he's a meditation master with magical powers? Please explain.
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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 16:14:54 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: housemum
Subject: Hi mum
Message:
Life's Great is another forum, started by an ex-premie, but currently moderated by a premie. Not much happens there.

I think you have the revisionism problem well stated. The bottom line is this: most premies from the 70s still believe Maharaji is God, and in Lila, etc., but it is not currently acceptable to state that publicly. Hence, you get these really ridiculous, contradictory statements from premies and the cult, and you get really bizarre videos like Passages, that try to perpetuate the revisionism.

Maharaji lives right in the middle of the dichotomy. On the one hand, he says he isn't God, on the other hand, he engages in darshan ceremonies and accepts worship, and says he is the source of everything premies are 'experiencing' (only what's good, of course).

Here is my guess. Like somebody said recently, when Maharaji gets into trouble, in the sense that his source of funds could dry up, he usually pulls out the 'devotion' card. In 1976, Maharaji stepped down from the throne shortly, and his cash dried up. So, as a reacction to that we got from him the 1977-1983 period, when 'devotion and surrender' were what it was all about.

I think he might be in a similar situation right now, with his cult falling apart. I think we may see him become God again in a more overt way. The people who are now spouting the company line will then be reviled as confused idiots, just like the folks who did that in 1976 were. We shall see.

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 22:00:46 (EST)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: 'become God again' LOL [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 16:34:40 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Right, Joe
Message:
It does smell a lot like the infamous '76', as the humanist era followed the rebirth of devotion was known. People were actually having relationships, starting purloined careers and acting reasonably 'normal' for awhile. Then came the 1976 Atlantic City program replete with Krishna Crown, followed by a series of programs 19 days apart. These featured the first darshan tunnel and darshan recovery areas. No true premie could possibly keep a real job during that time so, by 1979, 3 hots and a cot in Miami to work 12 hours a day at DECCA was 'salvation'.

It does seem similar now but back then it was sort of a modern saddhu, vagabond, 6 people in a VW nonstop crosscountry, program-to-program, job-to-job type existance. These days, I get the impression that it's a rich man's game. If you've mastered your financial situation, can afford to fly anywhere last minute and donate big bucks - the door is open to you. M is just marketing directly to the target audience that can keep up the pace. Otherwise, you watch Dish Network, buy trinkets from Visions and have dear memories of a once noble cause led by the man who would be king..

Richard

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 16:32:32 (EST)
From: housemum
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: thanks Joe
Message:
Psychologists do say that intermittent reinforcement is the best way to train a person/animal to obey. If the subject doesn't know what to expect but has a series of contradictory 'right answers' then they will keep trying to find the right answer out of the already supplied options rather than try something unexpected.

The other topic I am interested in exploring, and the one that seems to be the real hook for still active premies, is that experience of 'love' that they report when they see the goo. There's a lot of scholarship on what's called 'conversion romance,' the psychological effect of having one's object of attraction be completely different than one thought, and having that event feel transformative. It's why people who thought they were straight and realize they're gay sometimes go through that syrupy stage, or someone who's sworn off love finds themselves headover heels again and weeps as their heart opens up. You get the drift. The transference is always on the trigger that produced the conversion romance, the other, when, of course, the feelings are simply being stimulated by a confluence of variables (unconscious memories of childhood, cultural conditioning, harmones, etc). What do you think? Any good theories of why people get so hooked by this?

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 17:23:23 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: housemum
Subject: Justification for dissembling/Guru Papers
Message:
Mum, I think that's true, but in the case of the goo, I think it's more that anything including Maharaji's contradictory flip-flops, are just 'tests' or 'lessons' teaching that none of the externals matter and that it's all about an internal experience. This is what you hear over and over from premies, and it justifies virtually anything.

This is from The Guru Papers (Kramer and Alstad, 1993), page 62:

Traditional gurus teach what they were taught. Most gurus’ training in dealing with disciples is through example – watching their own guru. They learn to recognize, reinforce, and reward surrender, and to negate non-surrender.

Aside from the more tangible rewards, they reinforce devotion with attention and approval, and punish its lack by withdrawing them. Though some gurus say that doubts are healthy, they subtly punish them. Doubt is not the way to get into the inner circle. Believing surrender is essential for transmitting their teachings, some gurus could be aware they are manipulating people to surrender, but think they are doing so ‘for their own good.’ (If this were in fact true, it would mean that deep truths are only accessible via an authoritarian mode.) This can not only justify manipulation, but also justify dissembling in order to eliminate people’s doubts – all this being done in the name of fostering spiritual growth.' (p.62)

Since the people in the "inner circle" are the most easily manipulated in this way, because presumably they get, and expect the most attention from Maharaji, they are probably the most stuck, the most addicted to the attention, mmost susceptible to manipulation by Maharaji, and hence most likely to stay with him through thick and thin, and say ridiculous things to protect him.

This is the only thing I can think of to get people like Ron Geaves and Tim Gallwey to say the riduculous things they do to explain-away Maharaji's "changes", since they seem to be very intelligent people, who have a reputation in the world to maintain.

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 14:12:33 (EST)
From: jmc
Email: jmc@peterson-ae.com
To: All
Subject: Sampuran Anand passed away. Who is
Message:
he and why should I care?

The following message is displayed on EV's web page:

'We are very sad to hear that Sampuran Anand passed away.
We will miss him dearly.'

Who is Sampuran Anand? Why will he be missed?

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 19:23:47 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: jmc
Subject: And what was his real name?
Message:
Sampuranand-how does that translate?

I'm sure it means something holy to disquise the quest he spent his whole life pursuing.

Did he have a shread of his real identity left? What was his birth name?

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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 10:56:47 (EST)
From: loaf
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: Norman Evans [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 14:44:11 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: jmc
Subject: See Sampuranand thread below... [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 13:32:11 (EST)
From: Gregg
Email: binduesque@yahoo.com
To: All
Subject: Maharajism to Sweep the World!
Message:
Not.

I read an article yesterday in The Atlantic about religion, and, especially, NRMs. New Religious Movements, the term you use if you want to avoid the pejorative 'cult.' Lots of sociologists study these movements...everything from the strange and marginal UFO/guru cults (oops, sorry) to the Pentacostals, who are overshadowing Catholics and traditional Protestants everywhere from small town America to sub-Saharan Africa.

One of these sociologists outlined three characteristics of a successful NRM.

One is that it has to be pricey. You have to 'invest' a lot of time/money in the cult (a word Peg used in her post below). The idea is that you don't value something that doesn't cost a lot. So Maharaji's perpetual pleas for cash to enable him to live in the style to which he has been accustomed has been a successful strategy in this respect.

The second strategy is to make sure the members have plenty to do. The Mormons, for example, have all kinds of responsibilities that come with membership, including taking care of other members (which adds to its benefit as an evolutionary strategy, by the way.) I'm not sure Maharajism is doing too well as far as this goes, although it used to ask a lot more of its members (ashram, DECA etc.).

The third characteristic of a successful NRM is theological: the God has to be virtuous and very specific. As an example, he points to Asian religions, which have to supplement their general exhortations to get enlightened with a lot of specific gods and goddesses and so forth to stay popular. In this regard, Maharajism is successful...and not. First of all, the God IS very specific. It's Prem Pal Rawat! He is the God of this NRM, essentially. However, as to the 'virtuous' part...well, the EPO site has illuminated the problem associated with attributing 'virtue' to Guru Maharaj Ji, and has severely undermined the Guru's ability to present himself as totally in sync with the Divine.

Just in case you were wondering what sociologists say about the possibility about Maharajism becoming the next great religion.

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 14:00:19 (EST)
From: housemum
Email: None
To: Gregg
Subject: attributing 'virtue'
Message:
This was the stickler for me even before EPO. Christians have the example of Christ and some noteworthy followers (St. Frances, Mother Theresa), Jews can look to the Talmud and specific Rebbis as examples of those virtuous ones who 'cleave with God,' Buddhist don't have to look to anyone but can find inspiration in being reborn in higher realms or expunging 'bad' karma, Hindus have Gandhi and other great sages of peace (Yogananda sounds good on paper), Muslems have Mohammed and his virtuous followers (there are actually many), but in Maharajism what are we to attain? Who is the example? Have any of you ever met someone who 'realized knowledge?' If so, how were they better off? If the goo is an example of someone who has 'realized knowledge' what are we to ascertain are the rewards of such attainment? Money? Power? The ways to generate more money and more power? Has anyone ever heard him mention compassion? Does he exemplify Wisdom? Do I want to be like him? That's the fundamental question one asks about their teacher. In reality, the attainment of Maharajism is watching someone get rich. Therefore, as the posts on the inner circle clearly demonstrate, the goo is just part of the cult of capitalism, bringing us all full circle.
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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 13:22:23 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: All
Subject: The origins of 'the Knowledge'
Message:
Amazing what you can find when the resources are in short supply.

In other words, it's only because EPO is down, and some kind soul recently posts a link to the Google cache, that I start to check out what's still left of the huge amount of material that is/was EPO.

And what do I find? Just THE most amazing history of 'Knowledge'.
(and I thought I knew my way round the ex-premie.org site).

Click on the link above for a revelation!

(and thanks, Jean-Michel, for all your hard work - and may EPO find a safe home soon).

http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:z92X0j4XytwC:www.ex-premie.org/papers/medtech.htm+&hl=en
[ The origins of the techniques ]

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 16:05:43 (EST)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: The origins of nectar technique
Message:
As far as I have been able to find out, the 'Nectar' technique is attributed to a hatha-yogi named Goraknath at ca. the 9th century. He is supposed to have invented it.

Hogwash! Read Psalm 137 (King James version only). I believe Psalms were written in the 9th century BC.

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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 07:53:14 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Hogwash is it, Dep? Think again ...
Message:
The psalm you quote, Dep, is the famous (or rather, infamous) 'Rivers of Babylon' lament. (Infamous because it actually condones the slaughter of infants - and in a very barbaric way too).

The 'King James' Bible version reads:

'By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.

We hanged our harps upon the willows in the midst thereof.

For there they that carried us away captive required of us a song; and they that wasted us required of us
mirth, saying, Sing us one of the songs of Zion.

How shall we sing the LORD's song in a strange land?

If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, let my right hand forget her cunning.

If I do not remember thee, let my tongue cleave to the roof of my mouth; if I prefer not Jerusalem above my
chief joy.

Remember, O LORD, the children of Edom in the day of Jerusalem; who said, Rase it, rase it, even to the
foundation thereof.

O daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be, that rewardeth thee as thou hast served
us.

Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones'.

or, if you'd like it in a more up-to-date version:

The Good News Bible in Today's English Version
Psalms 137: 1 - 9 -

1 By the rivers of Babylon we sat down; there we wept when we remembered Zion. 2 On the willows
near by we hung up our harps. 3 Those who captured us told us to sing; they told us to entertain them:
'Sing us a song about Zion.' 4 How can we sing a song to the Lord in a foreign land? 5 May I never be
able to play the harp again if I forget you, Jerusalem! 6 May I never be able to sing again if I do not
remember you, if I do not think of you as my greatest joy!

7 Remember, Lord, what the Edomites did the day Jerusalem was captured. Remember how they kept
saying, 'Tear it down to the ground!' 8 Babylon, you will be destroyed. R188 Happy are those who pay
you back for what you have done to us - 9 who take your babies and smash them against a rock.

Either way, Dep, it's obvious to anyone with a modicum of common sense that this has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with the 'nectar technique'. Which mahatma foisted that stupid belief on you - Mahatma Dhar by any chance?

You've clung onto a lot of beliefs like that one for a long time now, Dep. But have you ever taken the time to find out the truth?

Some of the things we were told in so-called 'satsang' are better left behind, you know.

I just hope you don't feel the need to go back to them, 'like a dog to its vomit, or a sow that has been washed to its wallowing in the mire'

Whatever, take care,

Chris

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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 07:05:00 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Wow, Dog, you're so ............
Message:
..... willfully blind and stupid?

Anyway, so long as you're willing to play the foil for Pullaver and friends, what the hell, huh? Cheap entertainment, I guess.

That was VERY funny, Pull.

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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 13:35:55 (EST)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Wow, Dog, you're so ... wonderful
Message:
You think I'm posting here for entertainment? I'm defending Knowledge, that's what I'm doing here. You find that 'VERY funny' do you? Maybe you should get out more.

Has it ever occurred to you that you are sounding more and more like a recording? Loosen up for fuck sakes!

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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 16:43:10 (EST)
From: Now and Zen
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Re: Wow, Dog, you're so full of it . .
Message:
Oh, madogma-ji, true knowledge can be neither defended nor attacked.
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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 20:22:23 (EST)
From: Pullaver
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Bible Quotes
Message:
Mr. Dog,

The polite thing to do would be to actually quote the relevant part of Psalm 137 so each of your readers don't have to go scurrying for a copy of King James Bible - if they even have one. Anyways I'll do it for you and maybe the forumites can decide if you're exhortation of 'Hogwash!' has any merit . . .

Psalm 137:6

If I do not remember thee, let my tongue cleave to the roof of my mouth; if I prefer not Jerusalem above my chief joy.

and as a bit of context to make absolutely certain were talking about the tech's here, let's pop down to Psalm 137:9

Happy shall he be that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.

Nothing here resembling the specific meditation descriptions referenced. And if I may say so, this kind of far-fetched reasoning; seeing obtuse references in the bible or koran as conclusive proof that the knowledge techniques are secretly central to all religions is really what is hogwash.

From Encarta:

The most widely accepted view of the Psalms date of composition holds that the collection reflects a long period, from the Exodus about 1300 BC to the immediate postexilic period after 538 BC.

A partial classification of the individual psalms would include the following: hymns of praise acclaiming God as creator of the world (19, 65), as ruler of history (107), and as king of Jerusalem (47, 135); supplications and laments recited by individuals seeking deliverance in times of personal crisis (3, 77), and by the whole people in times of national peril or woe (137).

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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 14:02:30 (EST)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Pullaver
Subject: Pullmyfinger, the KJV is on line [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 16:58:06 (EST)
From: Zen again
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Re: Pullmyfinger, the KJV is on line
Message:
Then the polite thing would have been to link to it. Howzabout responding to my comments.
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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 04:34:22 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Pullaver
Subject: 6th tech: dashing brains out on stones [nt]
Message:

[ Page Link ]
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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 14:04:24 (EST)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: PatC, remember that scene from Life of Brian? [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sun, Jan 20, 2002 at 13:43:33 (EST)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: What have the Rromans ever done for us? :) [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 14:07:06 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Haven't seen Life of Brian, Dog. How's tricks? [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 20:13:27 (EST)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Life of Brian
Message:
You must see this movie PatC. With your British sensibilities and anti-religious views I think you'll find The Life of Brian hilarious. I found it highly amusing, particularly as it came out at the height of the LOTU period. Cleese said it was his favourite film.

BTW I enjoyed your post 'Through the grapevine.' You said,

'....the only thing that will be left will be the satellite broadcasts. Rawat has now become a televangelist. No doubt they will soon be selling ''Remember to Breath'' watches and begging for donations via TV.

The local premies are thrilled that there will no longer be a community. They hate each other.'

I laughed out loud when I read that. There is definitely some truth to that statement. Sad but true.

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Date: Sun, Jan 20, 2002 at 05:24:57 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: pdconlon@hotmail.com
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Re: Life of Brian - okay I'll rent it.....
Message:
.....if you say so. I can't stand Monty Python. Sorry but I find them monotonous. But I'll take your word that it's worth watching.

I know, Poochie, you've got a good heart and a clean conscience. It's not easy being honest. As much as we will argue about religion, you and I will always see eye to eye when it comes to morals and neighborly love. That's my religion.

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 23:48:59 (EST)
From: Carl
Email: None
To: Pullaver
Subject: Not sure, but I think that 'cleave' business
Message:
refers to a sort of punishment, like being parched and thirsty, mouth and tongue dry and sticky, as if to say: If I don't remember God, then may I be given to suffer such a torment.

That's my take on it. I also may be out to lunch. Any scholars care to comment?

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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 04:36:38 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Carl
Subject: Precisely: STICK to roof of mouth [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 00:56:20 (EST)
From: housemum
Email: None
To: Carl
Subject: biblical tonguing
Message:
Well...I am a scholar of ancient religions, though not a blblical scholar, I agree that the passage in question is rather a curse than the nectar technique. Interestingly though, cleave has two common meanings: 1. to split apart, to divide 2. to adhere, to be faithful to
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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 07:36:12 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: housemum
Subject: Hey, can I join the 'cliterati' too?
Message:
Another scholar of ancient religions? Well, pleased to meet you, Housemum (and apologies, if they're needed, for the appaling pun in the title of this post).

'Cleave' is an interesting word. It's an example of what one literary scholar calls an 'antagonym' - a single word that has meanings which contradict each other.

In this case, the two opposite meanings exist simply because the same spelling is nowadays used for two originally distinct words, one of which has its origin in the Greek word meaning 'to cut with a knife/carve' (as in cleft or 'cloven'), and the other apparently comes from the ancient Scandinavian word for 'to adhere'.

Now all I need is for someone to tell me why 'loose' and 'unloose' mean the same.

Tara fer now,

Chris
[ Click here for the low-down on the word ]

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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 12:21:55 (EST)
From: housemum
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: my fave- fat chance/slim chance (nt)
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 09:16:16 (EST)
From: Lily Puns
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Jerry Mathers as 'Beaver Cleaver'
Message:
Sorry, cq, for the obscure U.S. TV show reference but I couldn't resist; it seemed appropriate given your cunning post title.
Yours,
Lily Puns
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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 18:20:05 (EST)
From: Dr. Ruth
Email: None
To: Lily Puns
Subject: Cunninglingus, surely (nt)
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 13:25:11 (EST)
From: Eddie Haskell
Email: None
To: Lily Puns
Subject: I thought cleave meant cleavage!
Message:
I wonder what the word 'spirit' means? Could it have anything to do with breath? Naw!

Better get back to being cynical or people will think I'm a lightweight.

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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 10:18:37 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Lily Puns
Subject: Huh? ah well, just call me 'Nun the wiser'
Message:
Obscure TV show references you say?

Hmmmm, methinks I've recently linked to one of those myself. (id est Catweazle)

Cunning post title? All I can say is ... the memory lingers on.

PS. who the fuck is Beaver Cleaver? and Jerry Mathers?

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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 18:34:18 (EST)
From: TV Guide
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Turn on, Tune in,
Message:
Either you're from GB or Oz to have watched 'Catweazle' and not to have seen the American late '50s classic tv show 'Leave it to Beaver', featuring l'il Beaver Cleaver, with parents June and Ward Cleaver and troublemaker, Eddie Haskell. Talk about a wasted life . . . get it together Chris!
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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 14:03:59 (EST)
From: ExP
Email: ex_premie@yahoo.com
To: cq
Subject: Yoni Mudra
Message:
I wonder why Yoni Mudra was never taught? Perhaps because ....

'Sin does not stain him who practices Yoni Mudra, even if he be a murderer of a Brahmin, destroyer of a baby in a womb, intoxicator or has indulged with his Guru's wife.'

Therin lies part of the 'paradox' of the Malibu Perfect One - being conditioned by all this old Hindu/Indian claptrap allows one to be above morals, ethics and the general concern for ones fellow human being (especially one's devotees). If you really believe you are the living Satguru then, hey, why bother with practising what you preach. You are after all 'THERE' and only come to play with one's devotees.

However make sure that your devotees practice a simple, poverty stricken lifestyle and create a belief system around them that this is for their own benefit which will, eventually, allow them to Realize Knowledge - at the very least make them feel that they may, occasionally, pranam to you.

Obviously never allow the poor 'premies' know about the self indulgent lifestyle being lived by yourself as this will make the poor premies 'confused' - oh know we would not want any of that would we? Create x-rated inner forums as a 'service' to the poor premies.

Tricks, scams, black magic and egotistical mania.

Grrrrrr ....

Love
ExP

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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 06:34:00 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: ExP
Subject: As Mel Brooks might have once said:
Message:
As Mel Brooks might have once said:

'It's good to be Guru ...'

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 15:27:44 (EST)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: ExP
Subject: and the Lingam Mudra - hehehe! [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 16:22:37 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: suchabanana
Subject: Otherwise known as the so-hum job [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 13:40:15 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: J-M's hard work
Message:
Chris,

I would also like to thank J-M for all his hard work, and I also hope EPO finds a safe home soon.

Now what was it I was doing this weekend?....

John

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