Ex-Premie Forum 7 Archive
From: Jan 23, 2002 To: Jan 27, 2002 Page: 4 of: 5


Joe -:- How Many Ex-Premies on the Forum????????? -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 12:53:44 (EST)
__ janet -:- I'm number 3!! woo hoo -:- Fri, Jan 25, 2002 at 07:35:58 (EST)
__ Beragon/tongue cleaner -:- Re: How Many Ex-Premies on the Forum? -:- Fri, Jan 25, 2002 at 00:22:02 (EST)
__ __ Marianne -:- Sneeze breaking beragon -:- Fri, Jan 25, 2002 at 16:30:25 (EST)
__ Inside Edition -:- I'm an ex -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 23:32:48 (EST)
__ Richard -:- Don't forget -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 14:44:30 (EST)
__ __ magiclara -:- Re: Don't forget -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 15:39:43 (EST)
__ __ __ Suedoula -:- Re: Don't forget -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 19:24:52 (EST)
__ __ __ __ magiclara -:- Re: Don't forget -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 20:04:00 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Gina -:- Re: Don't forget -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 19:30:09 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Gina -:- Oops, what I meant to say was...for Sue (OT) -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 19:45:36 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Suedoula -:- Re: Oops, what I meant to say was...for Sue (OT) -:- Fri, Jan 25, 2002 at 09:31:53 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Gina -:- Hi, Susan! (OT) -:- Fri, Jan 25, 2002 at 11:42:35 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Suedoula -:- Such a small world :) -:- Fri, Jan 25, 2002 at 21:36:35 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Gina -:- OT...email if you want to chat some more?? -:- Sat, Jan 26, 2002 at 16:29:43 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- I love that message, Gina-OT -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 20:04:05 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Gina -:- Thanks and love, Marianne (OT) -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 20:54:31 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ magiclara -:- Love to you too Gina nt -:- Fri, Jan 25, 2002 at 06:26:28 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Deborah -:- Thank you very much, that's nice to read -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 22:27:04 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Balls! -:- Fri, Jan 25, 2002 at 03:30:39 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Gina -:- Tits! (but not tangled!) -:- Fri, Jan 25, 2002 at 07:31:21 (EST)
__ __ Joe -:- Also -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 14:51:59 (EST)
__ __ __ Richard -:- Re: Also -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 15:09:19 (EST)
__ #48 -:- Maybe we could get team jerseys ! -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 13:44:38 (EST)
__ __ Deborah -:- Very good idea--marketing to support F-VII -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 22:30:46 (EST)
__ __ __ TED Farkel -:- Me and eDrek are rarin to go! -:- Fri, Jan 25, 2002 at 07:13:50 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Richard -:- Yeah, TED's still with us -:- Fri, Jan 25, 2002 at 14:02:34 (EST)
__ __ Joe -:- Re: Maybe we could get team jerseys ! -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 13:58:36 (EST)
__ Tonette -:- Hey, your list is not in alphabetical order! -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 13:29:18 (EST)
__ housemum -:- Re: How Many Ex-Premies on the Forum? -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 13:02:34 (EST)
__ Mirror -:- Impressive count. Mirror is not ExP [nt] -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 12:57:03 (EST)
__ __ Joe -:- Question, Gerry -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 13:31:40 (EST)
__ __ __ Pullaver -:- Re: Question, Gerry -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 18:46:35 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Joe -:- Very funny... -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 19:29:45 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Pullaver -:- Cosmic Koinkydink I think not . . . -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 21:06:56 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ janet -:- Re: Cosmic Koinkydink I think not . . . -:- Fri, Jan 25, 2002 at 07:59:43 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pullaver -:- I told you!!!!!!!!! (nt - nine times) -:- Fri, Jan 25, 2002 at 11:27:45 (EST)
__ __ __ gerry -:- Not much of an answer. -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 13:52:05 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Joe -:- Mirror is an ex -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 13:55:03 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Mirror -:- Re: Mirror is an ex and also a she ;) [nt] -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 14:34:12 (EST)

Livia -:- British instructors -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 09:03:57 (EST)
__ Kelly -:- Re: British instructors -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 16:25:40 (EST)
__ __ Susan -:- Prakesh Bai -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 17:59:50 (EST)
__ __ __ Kelly -:- Susan and janet -:- Fri, Jan 25, 2002 at 15:16:35 (EST)
__ __ __ janet -:- Re: Prakesh Bai -:- Fri, Jan 25, 2002 at 08:09:22 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Richard -:- Re: Prakesh Bai -:- Fri, Jan 25, 2002 at 15:21:01 (EST)
__ __ Nottingham Bunny -:- Re: British instructors -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 17:50:24 (EST)
__ __ __ Moll of Mole -:- Re: British instructors -:- Fri, Jan 25, 2002 at 05:38:01 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Jethro -:- Re: British instructors -:- Fri, Jan 25, 2002 at 08:16:44 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Jethro -:- former instructors -:- Fri, Jan 25, 2002 at 07:12:39 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Moll of Mole -:- that is correct Jethro (nt) -:- Fri, Jan 25, 2002 at 15:41:58 (EST)
__ Mirror -:- Re: British instructors -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 10:30:12 (EST)
__ __ Jim -:- That kind of stuff bugs me -:- Fri, Jan 25, 2002 at 16:00:12 (EST)
__ __ __ Nottinham Bunny -:- Yes Jim -:- Sat, Jan 26, 2002 at 02:21:04 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Nottingham Bunny -:- Nottingham not Nottinham - sleepy Bunny! (NT) -:- Sat, Jan 26, 2002 at 02:26:21 (EST)

Livia -:- -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 09:01:56 (EST)

janet -:- TAROT-THE DEVIL CARD (not OT) -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 06:41:18 (EST)
__ Stonor -:- Re: TAROT-THE DEVIL CARD (not OT) -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 21:49:54 (EST)
__ Loaf -:- I eas going to say before... but forgot.. -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 12:45:07 (EST)
__ Gina -:- Thanks, Janet...thought-provoking insights (nt) -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 09:54:22 (EST)
__ Sulla -:- Re: TAROT-THE DEVIL CARD (not OT) -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 09:41:11 (EST)
__ Stevieji -:- Janet, this is so profound! -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 07:36:40 (EST)

Livia -:- Maharaji's children -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 06:22:52 (EST)
__ AJW -:- Re: Maharaji's children -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 14:42:35 (EST)
__ __ JHB -:- Are you sure? -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 18:41:26 (EST)
__ __ __ AJW -:- A real Latvian night. -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 20:14:57 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Suedoula -:- Try Tatoos -:- Sat, Jan 26, 2002 at 11:41:22 (EST)
__ __ __ __ JHB -:- A Solution to your problem -:- Fri, Jan 25, 2002 at 08:21:39 (EST)
__ __ Livia -:- Re: Maharaji's children -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 16:48:28 (EST)
__ __ Sir Dave }( -:- That's true but -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 16:02:29 (EST)
__ Cynthia -:- Re: Maharaji's children -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 11:01:42 (EST)
__ janet -:- Re: Maharaji's children -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 07:03:22 (EST)
__ __ halfnhalf -:- Re: Maharaji's children -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 11:49:01 (EST)
__ __ __ Cynthia -:- That 'ole ''get a life''...LOL -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 15:15:21 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Correction in my post... -:- Fri, Jan 25, 2002 at 09:37:16 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Deborah -:- 1/2 assed post, LOL -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 18:20:13 (EST)
__ __ __ AJW -:- Gossip and innuendo. -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 14:49:14 (EST)
__ __ __ Livia -:- re 'gossip and innuendo' -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 13:32:15 (EST)
__ __ __ __ AJW -:- halfnhalf. -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 14:52:43 (EST)
__ __ __ Vicki -:- Half n Half -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 12:02:17 (EST)
__ __ __ Mirror -:- Re: Maharaji's children -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 12:00:13 (EST)
__ __ Vicki -:- Re: Maharaji's children -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 10:36:40 (EST)
__ __ __ Livia -:- link doesn't work (nt) -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 11:27:28 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Vicki -:- Re: link doesn't work (nt) -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 11:51:21 (EST)
__ __ magnolia -:- m. the anti-education parent? -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 07:47:01 (EST)
__ __ __ Livia -:- Re: m. the anti-education parent??? -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 08:36:19 (EST)
__ __ __ __ magnolia -:- you need tax info for school loans! -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 09:06:06 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Livia -:- Aha! (nt) -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 10:35:01 (EST)
__ __ Bodhi -:- Yeah! and we paid for it....(nt) -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 07:17:30 (EST)
__ __ __ AJW -:- Thank you very much for paying my wages. -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 14:54:53 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- For You, Anth, I make exceptions...:) [nt] -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 15:52:57 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- LOL -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 20:10:03 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Re: LOL -:- Fri, Jan 25, 2002 at 10:27:50 (EST)

Vicki -:- Heart of a child or that of a stone..... -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 00:09:20 (EST)
__ hamzen -:- Completely agree -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 15:31:58 (EST)
__ __ Peg -:- Speaking of his ego does anyone remember -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 17:43:14 (EST)
__ janet -:- as to college degrees-- -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 07:18:39 (EST)
__ __ Vicki -:- Re: as to college degrees-- -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 12:00:00 (EST)
__ Loaf -:- What a clear Post ! -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 02:26:32 (EST)
__ Steve Mueller -:- Re: Heart of a child or that of a stone..... -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 00:25:26 (EST)
__ __ Mirror -:- Profitsharing of PAM's? -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 08:00:47 (EST)
__ __ __ The Maharaji of Malibu -:- invites 3 types to his kingdom -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 08:22:18 (EST)

Brainwashing a la M: -:- let's call it: hogwashing -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 23:41:13 (EST)

210 -:- re: a thread below -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 20:31:36 (EST)
__ Steve Mueller -:- IRS working over M -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 23:58:02 (EST)
__ __ JHB -:- Give Maharaji the Publicity! -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 03:37:37 (EST)
__ __ __ Steve Mueller -:- Its agreed. Its time to go to press. -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 14:19:56 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Deborah -:- You don't have to jeapordize your job -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 23:17:02 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- I agree - Don't risk your job! [nt] -:- Fri, Jan 25, 2002 at 08:42:02 (EST)
__ __ __ Yes, and... -:- ...mention his name to the IRS (nt) -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 09:44:07 (EST)
__ Anandaji -:- Re: re: a thread below -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 21:17:11 (EST)
__ __ Deborah -:- No! Of course not -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 22:30:01 (EST)
__ __ __ Anandaji -:- IRS - Taxes -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 23:42:00 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Gina -:- Re: IRS - Taxes -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 09:08:44 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Deborah -:- Should send open letter from Forum -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 23:25:57 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Nope -:- Re: IRS - Taxes -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 23:46:58 (EST)

Oh? You Didn't Know It Could ... -:- Get This Bad? Oh Yeah? It Did. For Me. -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 15:43:15 (EST)
__ Cynthia -:- The triangle... -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 11:46:26 (EST)
__ __ Steve Mueller -:- Re: The triangle... -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 14:38:11 (EST)
__ __ __ Cynthia -:- So are you, Steve... -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 16:15:56 (EST)
__ Tonette -:- Re: Get This Bad? Oh Yeah? It Did. For Me. -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 10:42:47 (EST)
__ Loaf -:- The Selfish Truth -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 02:09:33 (EST)
__ __ Glad To Have Been Able To -:- Give Your Exing Some Meat, Loaf! -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 16:21:34 (EST)
__ __ __ Loaf -:- I dont care about M's fate.. -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 17:04:40 (EST)
__ Peg -:- Please! -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 19:13:56 (EST)
__ __ Steve Mueller -:- Thanks, Peg -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 23:24:51 (EST)
__ magnolia -:- can't help lovin' that man of mine -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 17:53:51 (EST)
__ __ Steve Mueller -:- Re: can't help lovin' that man of mine -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 18:41:20 (EST)
__ __ __ magnolia -:- wishing you all the best -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 20:24:26 (EST)
__ __ __ __ janet -:- Re: wishing you all the best, steve -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 20:36:51 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ steve mueller -:- Re: wishing you all the best, steve -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 23:13:53 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ magnolia -:- unconditional love for m. -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 07:29:37 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Steve Mueller -:- Re: unconditional love for m. -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 16:48:13 (EST)
__ livia -:- Re: Get This Bad? Oh Yeah? It Did. For Me. -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 17:47:13 (EST)
__ __ Steve Mueller -:- Re: Get This Bad? Oh Yeah? It Did. For Me. -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 23:35:38 (EST)
__ __ janet -:- Re: Get This Bad? Oh Yeah? It Did. For Me. -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 20:29:03 (EST)

Moley -:- Such - are you still reading this?? -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 15:24:34 (EST)
__ anon -:- Please read the epilogue: dedication [nt] -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 13:09:59 (EST)
__ Tonette -:- What is happening to Such? -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 09:58:43 (EST)
__ __ Jim -:- He lied like every other swami -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 11:56:14 (EST)
__ __ __ Tonette -:- I'm really pissed -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 12:04:47 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Deborah -:- I missed the hoopla on this one -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 23:20:33 (EST)
__ anon -:- see retirement party post [nt] -:- Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 01:58:24 (EST)
__ Tim G -:- Re: Moley Muso -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 18:21:37 (EST)
__ __ Moley -:- Tim - you wannit, you goddit;;. -:- Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 20:05:22 (EST)


Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 12:53:44 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: All
Subject: How Many Ex-Premies on the Forum?????????
Message:
Over on 'Life's Great' Catweasel and DR, who no longer make appearances here (praise to Allah), say that there are just a few ex-premies hanging around here.

This morning I got stuck on a particularly boring conference call and started counting. I was astounded to count 72 ex-premies who had posted in the past 4-5 days. I didn't count obvious duplications, or even posters who I wasn't sure weren't using other names. Also, this does not count people who lurk and do not post, and it doesn't count many others who often post, but haven't done so in the past 5 days.

Also, during that time, I counted only ONE premie (Harry) as well as about 4 non-premies, mostly people in relationships with premies who were asking advice. Also, I wasn't sure if Deputy Dog was a premie or an ex, hence the total is 72 and not 73. Here is my list.

1. Livia
2. Mirror
3. Janet
4. Gina
5. Sulla
6. Steve Mueller
7. Cynthia
8. Vicki
9. Magnolia
10. Bodhi (also Baiji?)
11. Loaf
12. JHB (of course)
13. Anandji
14. Deborah
15. Barbara
16. Tonette
17. Peg
18. Moley
19. Nigel
20. Joy
21. Jim
22. Joe
23. Anon
24. Tim G
25. Silvia
26. Mercedes
27. Michael Donner
28. ExP
29. Gerry (of course, FA)
30. Housemum
31. Salam
32. PatD
33. PatC
34. Charles S
35. Magiclara
36. Francesca
37. Kelly
38. Kev
39. Eric
40. AJW
41. Richard
42. Lesley
43. Marshall
44. cq
45. Kelly
46. Abi
47. Dermot
48. Carl
49. Susan
50. Gregg
51. Chris
52. Maria
53. Ulf
54. Wolfie
55. Deputy Dog (?)
56. Pullaver
57. Bill
58. Brian Smith
59. Roger Drek
60. OTS
61. Jethro
62. Gail
63. Jean Michel
64. Sir Dave
65. Disculta
66. Marianne
67. New-Age Redneck
68. Such (still with us)
69. hamzen
70. JohnT (I think an honorary ex-premie)
71. Peter Howie
72. Robyn
73. Monty(?)

Obviously, we can all think of lots of ex-premies who have posted lots but haven't been posting in the past few days. Michael Dettmers, John MacGregor, Katie, McDuck, Roy, Steve Quint, Scott T, Helen, dv, and others come to mind.

I was amazed to count so many. Remember, this is just over 4-5 days. Sorry if I missed anyone.

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Date: Fri, Jan 25, 2002 at 07:35:58 (EST)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: I'm number 3!! woo hoo
Message:
if that doesn't end for ever my 29 years of fears of being tha fringe bongo, nothing ever will
no, seriously..
bodhi and bai-ji are different people.

73 people! do you realize what this means?
think about what a party with all that many people would look like.
i was amazed as i read down the list, that i knew and remembered every person clearly, individually, didnt get them mixed up with someone else.

73 people is like three classrooms full of students.
73 people, plus the posters who are named at the bottom as regulars but not currently posting right now, would fill a 99 seat theatre.
difference being, you know every face and voice in the house.

that's huge.

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Date: Fri, Jan 25, 2002 at 00:22:02 (EST)
From: Beragon/tongue cleaner
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: How Many Ex-Premies on the Forum?
Message:
I used to post about a year ago but ran out of stuff to say.I now just read and enjoy.I go on almost on a daily basis and let me congratulate all you guys who post.Keep up the good work.
Ps.I sneezed on my beragon during meditation once and broke the fucking thing.
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Date: Fri, Jan 25, 2002 at 16:30:25 (EST)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Beragon/tongue cleaner
Subject: Sneeze breaking beragon
Message:
Hi beragon. I remember you. The premie who made your beragon must have been in his/her mind when they built it or it wouldn't have broken with a mere sneeze.

Hilarious post.

Marianne

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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 23:32:48 (EST)
From: Inside Edition
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: I'm an ex
Message:
Guru?
I don't need no stinkin' guru.
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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 14:44:30 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Don't forget
Message:
Thelma
Pauline Premie
Ted Farkel
Andrea Erikson
Mahatma Coat
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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 15:39:43 (EST)
From: magiclara
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Re: Don't forget
Message:
Suedoula
Jim S
Rich Mandrake
Angela spouse of premie
Timmi spouse of premie
Clarence Clear but that was me
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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 19:24:52 (EST)
From: Suedoula
Email: None
To: magiclara
Subject: Re: Don't forget
Message:
Thanks for remembering me -- I've been here and reading faithfully but involved in a lot of personal stuff and in too much of a brain fog to post. I think the fog may be lifting tho so who knows -- I might be able to contribute something sometime soon!

Best to all,
Susan Pszenitzki

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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 20:04:00 (EST)
From: magiclara
Email: None
To: Suedoula
Subject: Re: Don't forget
Message:
Hi Sue
I remembered you telling us about how you work helping women having babies. Must be a great job. I helped two friends when they were giving birth, and helped to deliver a baby in an emergency rapid birth. They were all brilliant experiences.
Bests Mags
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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 19:30:09 (EST)
From: Gina
Email: None
To: Suedoula
Subject: Re: Don't forget
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 19:45:36 (EST)
From: Gina
Email: None
To: Gina
Subject: Oops, what I meant to say was...for Sue (OT)
Message:
Sue, I hope you don't mind my asking, but are you a doula, as in post partum mother-baby caregiver? Breastfeeding counselor? A midwife, maybe?

I'm asking because I was an in-hospital perinatal/nicu nurse for about 20 years but I also assisted with homebirths whenever I was asked and loved doing doula-care whenever I could.

Anyway, if your name Suedoula means that's what you do, I just want to send you much love and say, 'Hi, sister!'

Love,
Gina Boger-Haney in Atlanta

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Date: Fri, Jan 25, 2002 at 09:31:53 (EST)
From: Suedoula
Email: None
To: Gina
Subject: Re: Oops, what I meant to say was...for Sue (OT)
Message:
Hi Gina,

Much love right back to you! I am a birth doula but I also took post-partum training. Up until now, all the births I have attended have been in the hospital but I will be attending my first homebirth (other than my own!) sometime in March and I am so very excited! The midwife is the same woman who attended my daughter's birth and I am looking forward to working with her.

How wonderful for you that you have experience with homebirths. Most of the nurses I have worked with are appalled at the thought of birthing at home. There was only one I knew who was supportive of the idea and that was because she was a LLL leader and birthed both her sons at home. I was working as a doula well into my last pregnancy and was always asked where I was giving birth and who my OB was. I always got the same concerned look when I told them I was birthing at home with a midwife! Oh well!

By the way, I lived in Atlanta from 1976 to about 1980 when I was transferred up to the Grand Rapids, MI ashram. Some of my very closest friends are still in the Atlanta area (some still follow M but most don't any longer)

Best,
Susan (Stein) Pszenitzki

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Date: Fri, Jan 25, 2002 at 11:42:35 (EST)
From: Gina
Email: None
To: Suedoula
Subject: Hi, Susan! (OT)
Message:
Hi, Susan...so good to 'meet' you. You are going to LOVE attending a homebirth!

I know what you mean about most hospital L&D nurses...very territorial, very much opposed to homebirth, and sometimes very rude to homebirth midwives when they have to transport a mom into 'the big house' with complications. I was the 'lone ranger' sometimes, acting as liaison between my (night) crew and the homebirth midwife and her transported mother, when I worked in one of the slick new grand-hotel-like birthing-suite units in a big hospital with traditional L&D nurses. I always did what I could to help but they're a tough crowd! But before that I had worked for 8 years in the only real in-hospital birthing center in Georgia, outlying to the metro, west of Atlanta in Douglasville. It existed from 1976 until 1990 when hospital/insurance politics plowed it under along with the midwife group (5 CNM's and 2 backup OB's) that ran it. Most of the births we did were natural...no IV's, etc, very low c-section rate, and all the nurses were crosstrained (we had to be...we were like an outlying M.A.S.H. unit and we had to be really good at handling OB/neonatal emergencies and stabilization for transport). BTW...quite a few Atlanta premies birthed there and I remember one mother's focal point for her labor was a picture of Maharaji's feet. Nobody on the crew got it but me! Anyway, my four children were born at home, two of them while I was still in nursing school, with the same attending midwife I sometimes assisted at other homebirths. My path to becoming a perinatal nurse was just different than most of the L&D nurses and nurse-midwives I've worked with.

It's always good to hear that good midwives and doulas are attending births, at-home and in-hospital. Keep up the good work!

Go well,
Gina

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Date: Fri, Jan 25, 2002 at 21:36:35 (EST)
From: Suedoula
Email: None
To: Gina
Subject: Such a small world :)
Message:
Gina,

I am almost positive that some of the Atlanta premies who delivered at that birth center were friends of mine. I was there back in 1977 or so watching a friend's baby so that she could attend the birth of a mutual friend of ours. It was the birth that bit me with the birth bug altho it was many years before I would become a doula.

The couple had wanted a Leboyer type birth but there were some complications during the delivery so it wasn't quite the birth they wanted. They did get to give the baby his LeBoyer bath in a dark room after mom was taken care of -- I was invited to witness the miraculous site of this newborn babe being immersed in a warm tub of water and watch him relax back into the place he had come from. Awesome sight. Of course in my confusion, I probably attributed it to wha's his name's Grace being as he was the 'Lord, the giver of Life.'

Now I still am awestruck at the site of a baby's first breath but not as confused over the giver.

Best,
Susan

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Date: Sat, Jan 26, 2002 at 16:29:43 (EST)
From: Gina
Email: all-yall@mindspring.com
To: Suedoula
Subject: OT...email if you want to chat some more??
Message:
Susan,

I'm so enjoying this chat with you. I may have been there at the birthing center when you came for the birth there, if it was between 7p and 7a. I helped many times with Leboyer births and baths. Small world indeed!

AND this is getting WAY off-topic now! Since this thread is going way down the page now as well, please feel free to email me sometime if you want to continue our conversation...I would welcome that! I never get enough of birth stories...I'm sure you have some good ones and I do, too. I've been encouraging the midwife who delivered all of my babies to write a book...she has many amazing birth tales! Anyway...lest we bore, annoy, frighten, gross out or gag the good folks here with graphic birth stories (maybe the women wouldn't mind so much, but the guys...well, my own husband, a real smooth guy during all our homebirths, used to say that sometimes when I came in from working all night doing births and just without thinking launched companionably into details about the events of the night...he said I could make his breakfast turn green!) so maybe we could continue our chat by email. I have a great 'first breath' story for you! and a water-birth story.

My email address is above and please put 'for Gina' in the subject box.

So maybe we'll talk again...
Go well,
Gina

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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 20:04:05 (EST)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Gina
Subject: I love that message, Gina-OT
Message:
That was a great message to Suedoula. I love reading about what other exes do. There are many people here involved in giving back to others and their communities - just like you described.

Thanks for letting us into your life a bit more.

Marianne

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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 20:54:31 (EST)
From: Gina
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Thanks and love, Marianne (OT)
Message:
Thank you, Marianne.

Yes, it has become more and more clear to me that many of the people here are as you say...giving of themselves to others. (I'm realizing that Tonette is a nurse also. And Magiclara just said she's helped with some births, too.) It becomes obvious after a short time reading here that these people truly care about each other and about being here to support each other.

I just want to say that I truly respect the people here for their courage, honesty and compassion...but I want to say most especially that the women here are truly amazing and beautiful, funny, spirited and kind. I have spent much of my adult life caring for women (as well as their babies) in pregnancy, birth and afterwards, in a variety of settings...still do whenever I am called upon, but not full-time anymore. I have been honored to have experienced many women with their souls turned inside out, giving birth without medication...some cried, some bit me, some kicked, some laughed, some were very quiet and shy while others screamed and cursed me and sounded like they might need an exorcism because I couldn't make the birth happen faster, while some just very methodically and pragmatically faced the task at hand and went about getting it done...all this to say that each woman's response to pain and fear was unique and necessary in her experience of birth. This is how we are. Birth energy is very powerful, to say the least; I'm sure anyone reading this who has been inside or near that energy knows what I mean. But in moments of such raw intensity as giving birth, who a woman really is inside will shine through as she gathers her courage and all her strength to do what it takes to bring her baby out.

And what I'm trying to say here is that I love how different and wonderful are the responses of all the women here.
This is how we are.

Much love, sisters,
Gina

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Date: Fri, Jan 25, 2002 at 06:26:28 (EST)
From: magiclara
Email: None
To: Gina
Subject: Love to you too Gina nt
Message:
t
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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 22:27:04 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Gina
Subject: Thank you very much, that's nice to read
Message:
Sometimes I feel that the women's voices get lost in the din of male one upmanship, but than you come along and say that and it makes me feel that everything's fine the way it is. And maybe we need to participate in our own unique but important ways.

Thanks again, it's very nice to have you here.

deborah

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Date: Fri, Jan 25, 2002 at 03:30:39 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: Balls!
Message:
Maybe I should have posted this as Thelma. b)

I read all the women all the time. Like Marianne, I also love to know what everybody else does. It's a real treat finding out more about the life someone leads off the forum. The OT stuff is sometimes the best. Like Gina said most exes are pretty kind, giving, concerned citizens. (Hi Gina, I've been reading you and am glad that you're back posting.)

In fact, I'm so damn nosy that I feel like starting a thread asking all the newbies all aboout themselves. But I'll try to be patient instead of my usual tactless self.

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Date: Fri, Jan 25, 2002 at 07:31:21 (EST)
From: Gina
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Tits! (but not tangled!)
Message:
Hi, Pat! That 'tits in a tangle' expression of yours cracks me up!

Yeah, it's good to be back, thanks. After my 2 months (or so) here last summer at F5 (you know right about when it seemed prudent for one to don a flak jacket and helmet to post!) I ducked out, right after F6 came up. I checked in a few times during the fall to see how y'all were doing...saw once that there was another Gina here, talking to Abi about lawyers, so when I came back I signed in at first as 'Gina in Atlanta' in case the other Gina was still here. Anyway, I eased back in on New Year's Eve. Couldn't stay away forever!

Go well, Pat!
Gina

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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 14:51:59 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Also
Message:
Tami Sunshine Rainbow
Mahatma Offanand
Elan Vital
Reverend Hammond Smythe
Sister Helen Wheels

Oh, yeah and don't forget the best of thema all: Postie :)

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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 15:09:19 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: Also
Message:
Songwriter of EPO:
Larkin

plus:
Brian and Katie

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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 13:44:38 (EST)
From: #48
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Maybe we could get team jerseys !
Message:
Just idly speculating, but for every one that posts there are probably another forty or fifty who don't.

What do you think, maybe 3000 or so fence-sitters and grim monitors?

It's probably much more, now that I think about it. Europe, Australia, and USA would predominate, but there's also South America, India . . .

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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 22:30:46 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: #48
Subject: Very good idea--marketing to support F-VII
Message:
Barry also has some hilarious cartoons that would make excellent t-shirts, mouse pads, calendars, etc. The profits could maintain and improve exes. Maybe we could eventually have emergency funds available for good causes.

deb

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Date: Fri, Jan 25, 2002 at 07:13:50 (EST)
From: TED Farkel
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: Me and eDrek are rarin to go!
Message:
OK, folks, I know it's been awhile, and old TED's been waiting for some service to do...and bein a peace lovin sort of redneck DV premie (first in the US, BTW) I thought I'd just throw in my two cents...

See, me and my business associate, the esteemed and right honorable Mr. eDrek have been quietly developing our own 'Holy Family Action Figure Collectible Set' for marketing purposes and fund-raising in general...

What ole TED proposes is that maybe the exes and the prems get together and market some of them T-shirts, along with our Holy Family Action Figure Collectible Set, and make some serious bucks for all of us...

Hell, we could even add some figures, like the big eatin Frenchman, or Valerio or Daya...who knows, the skys the limit!
Maybe even the jet,or the malibu fun-house, or a sort of Amaroo type of monopoly game or somethin....anythings gotta be better than askin them european prems to empty out their drawers to get their change before them euro-dollares come into effect...hell, even my wet T-shirt Tuesday night/ ladies night/ free beer and pretzels at the shop down here in Shaft, Alabama could do better than that....

Warmly,
TED Farkel

Heck, we could even market some old hub caps, reconditioned and spiffed up, of course, and sell them as arti trays....

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Date: Fri, Jan 25, 2002 at 14:02:34 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: TED Farkel
Subject: Yeah, TED's still with us
Message:
What with da lil' swami doing a cyber checkout on us and seeing how you've not been around, what's a poor Southern boy to imagine. Maybe ol' Farkel's gone flatline on us and is now busy pushin' up those Alabama daisies. Glad to hear that you are still here wallowing in the Maya like the rest of us.

Love your marketing ideas collaboration-wise but there may be a tech problem with your Holy Family Action Figure deal. The problem is with the word 'Action'. None of 'em do anything so where's the action in that? Just a little constructive criticism.

Richard, you can take the boy outa the South but you can't take the South outa the boy

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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 13:58:36 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: #48
Subject: Re: Maybe we could get team jerseys !
Message:
Yeah, I think Jerry said 10,000 messages read per day. That has to be at least 500-1000 people.

Interesting what you said about locations. I get the impression that there is a large UK contingent here, probably larger than the population of premies, but not sure. There is a large Australian contingent too, and I keep getting the feeling that in Australia the cult is more intense than other places. Also, the biggest premie disrupters seem to come from Australia.

I haven't attempted to guess the locations of the 73 posters. I'll leave that to someone who wants to take that on for statistical purposes. :)

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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 13:29:18 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Hey, your list is not in alphabetical order!
Message:
Just kidding. That must of been one long and extremely boring conferance call.

It is amazing the ex's here. And there are many more people who just read. I guess they are shy.

I never knew there were so many posters.

Take care. Thanks for your synoposis.

Fondly,
Tonette

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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 13:02:34 (EST)
From: housemum
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: How Many Ex-Premies on the Forum?
Message:
Dear Joe, As you know I hopped aboard F7 recently. (Thanks much to you), and as a result I have made contact with many exes in my area, all of whom are loyal readers of this forum but don't post. And I have heard from some of them that they are still close to pwk's who read this forum looking for substantial reports about m (hence, my post above.) So I think you're right; there are many more who benefit from F7 by reading than we can tell by posters.
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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 12:57:03 (EST)
From: Mirror
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Impressive count. Mirror is not ExP [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 13:31:40 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Mirror
Subject: Question, Gerry
Message:
How come the question marks keep increasing in number in the subject line? I only put one in, and now there are about 10. Just wondered. I have noticed this before.
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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 18:46:35 (EST)
From: Pullaver
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: Question, Gerry
Message:
When you allow one question, one doubt, see how it multiplies. . . the god of cyberspace has spoken
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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 19:29:45 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Pullaver
Subject: Very funny...
Message:
For some reason they stopped at nine. Do you think that's a cosmic number of some sort? :)
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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 21:06:56 (EST)
From: Pullaver
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Cosmic Koinkydink I think not . . .
Message:
The number 9 and yahweh = nineveh (in yiddish). See link for further explanation.
[ Nineveh ]
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Date: Fri, Jan 25, 2002 at 07:59:43 (EST)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Pullaver
Subject: Re: Cosmic Koinkydink I think not . . .
Message:
In Revelation Chapter 12 there are five numbers; 12, 24, 3, 1296, and 2, which when multiplied together total 217728. 217728 also equals 81 times 2268 or; 92 times the Ninevah Constant; the number of years it takes our Solar System to revolve one time around our Galaxy's center.
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Date: Fri, Jan 25, 2002 at 11:27:45 (EST)
From: Pullaver
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: I told you!!!!!!!!! (nt - nine times)
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 13:52:05 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Not much of an answer.
Message:
Joe, I have no idea. I hadn't noticed it before. Hotboards glitch i guess. Come to think of it, this has happened to you before hasn't it? I kinda remember thinking, hmmm that's sorta out of character for Joe, it's more like something I would do !!! But maybe it's something on your end. Repeating key or something. I'll try to fix it if you like.

Wonder why Mirror doesn't consider herself ex? It's not an identity as much as it is a historical fact. Not thath it matters that much.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 13:55:03 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Mirror is an ex
Message:
I guess I should stop using the punctuation. They seem to reproduce all by themselves. No big deal, though.

I think Mirror said he or she was not 'ExP,' another poster, because I thought they might be the same person. Turns out they are different posters.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 14:34:12 (EST)
From: Mirror
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: Mirror is an ex and also a she ;) [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 09:03:57 (EST)
From: Livia
Email: None
To: All
Subject: British instructors
Message:
Another question (I'm doing a lot of catching up here) - does anyone know what happened to (former?) British instructors such as Peter Dawson, Julian West or Kate McIntyre? Have any former British instructors become exes? Or instructors from anywhere else for that matter, other than the ones frequently mentioned here?

Cheers, Livia

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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 16:25:40 (EST)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: Livia
Subject: Re: British instructors
Message:
Julian West is alive and well and living in Delhi, she is one of the Far East correspondents for the Sunday Telegraph, still very deluded/devoted, still smoking, still a laugh, still a lot of things.
Peter Dawson is still going strong as far as I know.

Whatever happened to Prakash Bai? circa 1972-5, I heard she left many years ago. Any news, anyone?

I know of one or two former instructors who are now exes, and that's just me. I'm not so very well informed.

I suggest you plough your way through 'best of forum', it's an education!

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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 17:59:50 (EST)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Kelly
Subject: Prakesh Bai
Message:
I knew her pretty well too. She left the cult about 1977. Her name was Saraswati Rau. She married a premie named Kurt Flesch and they started an Indian Resturant next to the satsang hall. But she was an ex, didn't believe in the guru anymore.

She had kids, Susheil, SUnita I think.

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Date: Fri, Jan 25, 2002 at 15:16:35 (EST)
From: Kelly
Email: karen@ringrose.org.uk
To: Susan
Subject: Susan and janet
Message:
Thanks for the info, though I must confess I knew that much already. In fact I knew Sushyl Rao very well in the mid-seventies, in fact I nearly married him! I stayed with them at the Miami restaurant in 1977 (I think). She must have left the goo soon after that, or even been on her way out then. I really liked her and was hoping for more recent news. Also of Sushyl. I bumped into him at Longbeach in'96, but haven't heard of him since. He told me then that she was very much out. One sister was called Jumna, after the river (tributary of the Ganges) but I don't remember the other. I do remember the delicious falafel they served!
I would love to talk to her now about why she left, do either of you know anyone who might have a contact?

Thanks Susan for your kind words in a recent thread and also back in November.
With love
Karen
Love to you

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Date: Fri, Jan 25, 2002 at 08:09:22 (EST)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: Re: Prakesh Bai
Message:
she had two daughters, who were mid teenagers back then. one was jumuna, the other,sulakshna (?) rao.
i rmember the restaurant in miami--was't it called 'maliik'? out at lejeune and bird road? i got stuck in the miami community after guru puja for a long time and spent mst of it out there. i remember survivng some freaky nights homeless in the neighborhood, sleeping in a burnt out care with no windows that was parked behind the restaurant.
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Date: Fri, Jan 25, 2002 at 15:21:01 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Re: Prakesh Bai
Message:
Prakesh Bai's childern were a son Sushyl and two daughters, Sunanda and Jumna. Jumna's story is quite interesting. She is the same age as M, was his childhood playmate and was chosen early on as part of an arranged marriage with M. He teased her childhood chubbiness by calling Jumbo after the 747. That was the name by which we all knew her in Denver. Don't know why the arranged marriage was never consumated. Jumbo was a very sweet and fiery person. Sadly, her young son drowned in a swimming pool in Coral Gables. Sunanda is married to Kenny Warren who, last I heard, was at DunRite in CA. I recall both as good people.

Richard

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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 17:50:24 (EST)
From: Nottingham Bunny
Email: None
To: Kelly
Subject: Re: British instructors
Message:
Hi Livia,

Yes, there are a few exes who were instructors that I know, including active knowledge giving instructors who had considerable input from and time with Maharaji. One who is public, as you know, is Mike Finch, another has posted here (not in their own name) and is known to some members of the forum.

Warm regards,

Nottingham Bunny

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Date: Fri, Jan 25, 2002 at 05:38:01 (EST)
From: Moll of Mole
Email: mollofmole@loveable.com
To: Nottingham Bunny
Subject: Re: British instructors
Message:
Hi NB,
My boyfriend was an instructor when they were considered pure souls. He is not an ex yet himself but he keeps in touch with a number of ex instructors that are now ex premies. Most are low key for some reason.
He told me recently of when he was giving knowledge years ago , in small towns, in simple ashrams with just 10 or 20 people. He would have a little bit of satsang first then watch a video then start the knowledge session. He said it was always an incredible vibe and the room was filled with the most wonderful feeling.
Then his guruness stopped all the instructors giving the k and did it himself. But now it was a big deal, with fancy special built chairs and lounges, special cushions, teams of doctors on stand by and a team of organizers. What normally cost only a few dollars now cost the local communities many many thousands of dollars just to give the k to a hundred people. Funny thing was my boyfriend said that the number of people that stayed around was no different from when he was giving the knowledge. his guruness thinks it is all about externals.

Moll of Mole

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Date: Fri, Jan 25, 2002 at 08:16:44 (EST)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Moll of Mole
Subject: Re: British instructors
Message:
'... a number of ex instructors that are now ex premies. Most are low key for some reason. '

I have often wondered why more ex-instructors/initiators etc have come out. I know there are plenty of them.

One English instructor once told me that m gives all the premies K but the instructors get 'an extra twiddle'. Maybe these people think they carry extra rotting vegetables.

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Date: Fri, Jan 25, 2002 at 07:12:39 (EST)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Moll of Mole
Subject: former instructors
Message:
but he keeps in touch with a number of ex instructors that are now ex premies
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Date: Fri, Jan 25, 2002 at 15:41:58 (EST)
From: Moll of Mole
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: that is correct Jethro (nt)
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 10:30:12 (EST)
From: Mirror
Email: None
To: Livia
Subject: Re: British instructors
Message:
I know of one British long-time instructor who recently exed, however he chooses to remain anonymous. Perhaps when some day during his exiting process he might come forward, but I doubt that he is interested in joining this forum. Also, I don't think he was a PAM.

Mirror

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Date: Fri, Jan 25, 2002 at 16:00:12 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Mirror
Subject: That kind of stuff bugs me
Message:
Mirror,

I wonder, did either EPO or the Forum have any part at all in this British long-time instructor's recent ex-ing? If so, doesn't he have any sense of community responsiblity? What would have happened to HIM if we'd all just snuck out of the cult and kept our mouths shut? He'd be saving for Amaroo in the spring, wouldn't he?

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Date: Sat, Jan 26, 2002 at 02:21:04 (EST)
From: Nottinham Bunny
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Yes Jim
Message:
Yes Jim,

I do know that in the case of a couple of the ex instructors that I was referring to, that information on and discussions on the forums were a significant catalyst for their exiting. They were both long-term sincere devotees who would almost certainly still be in the cult.

Nottingham Bunny

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Date: Sat, Jan 26, 2002 at 02:26:21 (EST)
From: Nottingham Bunny
Email: None
To: Nottinham Bunny
Subject: Nottingham not Nottinham - sleepy Bunny! (NT)
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 09:01:56 (EST)
From: Livia
Email: None
To: All
Subject:
Message:
Another question (I'm doing a lot of catching up here) - does anyone know what happened to (former?) English instructors such as Peter Dawson, Julian West or Kate McIntyre? Have any former English instructors become exes?

Cheers, Livia

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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 06:41:18 (EST)
From: janet
Email: None
To: All
Subject: TAROT-THE DEVIL CARD (not OT)
Message:
nobody responed to this when i posted it below, so I thought I'd bring it up again. It provokes some profound contemplation.

If any of you have a deck of Tarot cards around, or a book with the images of them--the classical ones, not the new variations you see in the bookstores--take out and study the Devil Card.

notice that there is a man and a woman in the ofreground, and the Devil looming over them, dominating the scene.
Notice that the man and the woman have shackles around their necks, connected by chains, to the Devil behind them--but interestingly enough, not connected to each other, except thru him.

Ostensibly, they are his slaves, his captives, and are bound to him, helpless.

However, look a little closer.

Notice something:
The neck rings are actually rather loose and large, not tight and strangling. Loose enough to raise and remove, if they thought about it and really wanted to take them off.

Consider their expected plea, if confronted with this fact. Likely, they would protest that they are bound and subject to him, his will, that they could never leave, that he has them completely trapped; that were they to even think about doing such a thing, they could never get far very fast, that he would surely strike them down if they tried to leave, and would doubtless bind them more tightly than he does now, so mercifully.

So they don't even try.

Consider, too, how people protest that 'the devil makes them do it', when they are caught acting in ways they know are less than the height of human virtue. They speak as though prisoners of some agent they are helpless to escape, dolefully claim that they've tried, god nows, but always it happens again.

Consider now that this cozy little triangle isn't one of adversarial struggle, but a pact of delight and convenience.
For the captives', they can point to their Master and blame everything on him, when anyone takes them to task or criticizes their actions, and can claim that it's greater than any human could possibly fight.

for their master, he takes great delight in yanking their chains, but not too hard, because he DOES know that they can leave him at any time, if they realize their actual power. He loves the fact that they serve him and defer to him, and tell everyone how powerful he is. He delights that they give all listeners the impression that his might is impossible to resist, and act out, so convicingly, the overwhelm of their thrall to him.

In short, theirs is a tacit and undying contract, an agreement, to depend on each other. They need each other.

The Master is not a master, without servants or slaves. If they leave him, he is nothing. He is left alone, unable to do any more than any individual can do, all by themselves. He knows this, but he has to be careful that his lackeys don't.
For his servants, he is their excuse and absolution for whatever they do. They don't have to make up for it. They don't have to be good or make amends, or even try. As long as they have that shackle and chain, they are comfortable in the Knowledge that they can point to the Master, he who is so huge and all powerful that no one, not even them-can defy- and can say to outsiders AS WELL AS TO EACH OTHER that it can't be otherwise.

The pivotal observation, here, when contemplating the card ant its meaning, is that either one of them--the man, or the woman, or both together, can opt to take off their shackles at any time, and walk away, free. Their enslavement is illusory.

And it is quite possibly voluntary, if not naive and unknowing.

However, if they should reach that discovery or realization (that they really can take off the leash and be free), they are faced with the immediate spectre of what to do about all the dishonest habits they have let themselves get into as a result of pointing at their fingers at the imaginary scapegoat they have hidden behind, all this time.
There will be no one around to blame anymore. They will have to carry themselves to a higher standard.
They alone will have to account for and answer for themselves.

And speaking of scapegoats--notice how the Devil is usually portrayed with the lower body of a goat?
How's that, for the Ultimate Scapegoat? Did this ever dawn on any of you, before?

the more i think about it, this whole saga would make a great epide of the Twilight Zone or The Outer Limits or the like, wouldn't it?

The Devil comes down to earth in rich, elegant, expensive gentleman's attire, speaking smooth, persuasive words of promise, promising to make your life just perfect, to spare you all the troubles others have to suffer, and all he asks for is--yup, you guessed it--a lifetime contract to serve him, give all you have to him, and he'll take you across.

Oh, man.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 21:49:54 (EST)
From: Stonor
Email: stonor21@hotmail.com
To: janet
Subject: Re: TAROT-THE DEVIL CARD (not OT)
Message:
I talked about this about a year and a half ago. I think you'd be very interested to read the section on that card from a book called 'Meditations on the Tarot' by Anonymous. I'd be happy to send you a photocopy of that section if you email me your address. It's the most amazing book I've ever read on the Tarot.

Anna

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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 12:45:07 (EST)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: I eas going to say before... but forgot..
Message:
A fab post.

It strikes me that as the veils start lifting... we will start to see more and more of the dynamics behind what appears to be an innocent and spontanious master/student relationship.

Like Vicki's post 'heart of a child/mind of a lawyer' below where so clearly the scales fall from my eyes.. and Steve Muellers post about relationships with premies.. as I become 'dis-ILLUSIONED' the patterns and structures of this damaged dynamic become VIVIDLY apparant.. and in all these matters.. as soon as you see it, you are liberated.

Just to recognise the problem is most of the battle won here - as we have been lured and trapped into a realm of 'feelings' and subjective responses.

The beacons of light which shine through the fog are all here now - all ex premies. The journey continues in an unbroken quest... we started off seeking enlightenment/bliss/peace and we went beyond ourselves into his territory because what we were looking for was not our former selves.

By our journey, we are changed and altered - and now that we are getting into focus, we can clearly see what we DONT want...

and rather like bringing a camera into focus, form and definitions become sharper... and our appetite for the truth has only been whetted by our detour into the land of illusion.. pardon me for continuing my Lord of the Ring allusion started many posts ago, but..

WE, not they, are the company of the truth now... let us continue to travel together ...

I am so pleased and delighted to share this part of my life with you all... NOT only WOULDN'T I have liked to have done it without you, but I COULDN'T... by which I mean that we create and open the perceptions which are our destinations between us... and each stage of the journey we speak to each other more deeply, and with more relevance than before.. or so it seems to me.

We realise so much about ourselves from being with each other here.. i wouldnt have missed this for the world !

The illusory fence is no place to try to sit... growth is happening, inspiration is happening.. and we dont need him to give us permission to speak.

I think we are reclaiming our lives here. Its heart breakingly beautiful to see.

Love and best wishes to all the Ring bearers

Loafie
x

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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 09:54:22 (EST)
From: Gina
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Thanks, Janet...thought-provoking insights (nt)
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 09:41:11 (EST)
From: Sulla
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Re: TAROT-THE DEVIL CARD (not OT)
Message:
Thanks. This is something good to know or to remember. And can be apply in so many situations.
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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 07:36:40 (EST)
From: Stevieji
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Janet, this is so profound!
Message:
What genius insight! Wow! You are truly amazing! Thank you for sharing.
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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 06:22:52 (EST)
From: Livia
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Maharaji's children
Message:
Out of interest, not prurient, just interest, does anybody here know what Maharaji's children are like these days? I drifted off (externally but not internally till very recently) about 12 years ago so have no idea what they are like. Which ones of them received Knowledge? All I know is that Daya sings and has a restaurant called after her at Amaroo. Do they seem basically decent or spoilt rich kids or what? Have any of them got an education? Left home? I'm curious. Thanks!

With love, Livia

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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 14:42:35 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Livia
Subject: Re: Maharaji's children
Message:
Out of interest, not prurient, just interest, does anybody here know what Maharaji's children are like these days? I drifted off (externally but not internally till very recently) about 12 years ago so have no idea what they are like. Which ones of them received Knowledge? All I know is that Daya sings and has a restaurant called after her at Amaroo. Do they seem basically decent or spoilt rich kids or what? Have any of them got an education? Left home? I'm curious. Thanks!

With love, Livia


---

Hi Livia,

The Captain's children had a wonderful education, and were taught by concientous, quick witted, talented, good-looking, fair, bright, humorous, intelligent teachers.

Anth the modest.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 18:41:26 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Are you sure?
Message:
I thought they were taught by brain-washed cult members, but what do I know.

Hey Anth, when are you coming here for a real Latvian night?

John.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 20:14:57 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: A real Latvian night.
Message:
Hi John,

As soon as I get an advance from a publisher, I'll commence my European tour, and Latvia will be second on my list.

Trouble is, I've tried this before. I start off in Holland, then forget what I'm supposed to be doing. I have to have a label round my neck with my name and address on. I usually come round after a couple of months, phone home for bail money, or apologise profusely, or get de-loused or something, go home and try again.

I think it's called a 'Midlife Crisis'. I jumped straight into it, when my extended adolescence finished, when I was 38.

Go easy on the Zelta.

Anth, you should see my new skateboard man. Wicked. Know what I mean?

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Date: Sat, Jan 26, 2002 at 11:41:22 (EST)
From: Suedoula
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Try Tatoos
Message:
Anth,

Have you seen the movie Memento ? Maybe you should try tatoos.

Best,
Susan

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Date: Fri, Jan 25, 2002 at 08:21:39 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: A Solution to your problem
Message:
Anth,

If you make Latvia the number one destination in your European tour, then you may still forget the second destination, but at least you'll get here!

John the rarely drinks Zelta cos there's so many better beers here.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 16:48:28 (EST)
From: Livia
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Re: Maharaji's children
Message:
Actually darling, I KNOW you taught them when they were kids (let's hope they can spell!) I meant college education, and I was interested to know what they are doing with themselves now. Let's hope that one day they manage to break away from Maharaji's empire and learn something about he rest of the world...

With love, Livia

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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 16:02:29 (EST)
From: Sir Dave }(
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: That's true but
Message:
The only trouble is, they can't spell.

Head teacher, Anth wrote:

"and were taught by concientous, quick witted, talented, good-looking, fair, bright, humorous, intelligent teachers."

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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 11:01:42 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Livia
Subject: Re: Maharaji's children
Message:
Hi Livia,

Premlata received k about three years ago from m himself--this I know for sure because at m's first live, wordwide satellite feed, Premlata came out and announced it herself.

Daya received k (according to what I've read here) and it was through the auto-K method, I believe--video or DVD. Anyone please correct me if I've got it wrong.

I don't know much about the sons. I suspect Hansi is a wild child.

As far as education is concerned, I would imagine that maharaji would be jealous of any of his children having more formal education than he has, considering he never made past the 8th grade.

I have a bit of a problem feeling any sympathy for any of them at the moment, anyway....

Cynthia

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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 07:03:22 (EST)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Livia
Subject: Re: Maharaji's children
Message:
from what i understand, The daughters had plans to attend USC ( university of Douthern California) like ordinary young people until theirovercontrolling father cut that hope short and told them to go staff Visions and stay in the Family Business.
i hear that Amar is taking flying lessons just like dad.
I hear conflicting reports that Hans seems to distance himself from all of Daddy's hoopla, wants no part of it, while other reports say he thinks he's hot shit at the Amaroo pen bar scene, kdoing the James Bond thing, trying to act suave and circulating around the lounge, hitting on premie ladie, trying to impress them and pick them up.

people have posted here, telling us they are friends with one or another of the premie men that Daya or Premlata are dating. One person was terribly troubled that her friend was dating Daya but didn't come from the spoiled rich kid backround that she does, and that he wouldnt be able to compete and hold his own in her world, as he had no money to compare with hers, didn't come from the same life of privelege, and certainly didn't go home to the kind of environment she does when the night is over and both go home.

Mom apparently has holed up as a recluse since her aneurism in (?94?), isolating and insulating herself, not wanting to know, hear about, be asked to do anything about, or be touched by anything that would threaten to ripple her pond of fragile calm. People here have speculated that she must know her situation, being kept in such style, yet relegated to the background, what with her husband jetting all over with his longtime mistress, Monica Lewis, his 'personal photographer and videographer' ( we can just imagine what kind of personal video he likes her to shoot--you'll pardon the expression--of him--in private...), knowing that he has the kids learning his Empire and how he wants it done, and knowing that if she made any noise or seriously made any motions to leave him, she would be out on her own, without the fabulous income, servants, shell of respect, and halfway thru her 50's with a brain fragility that could kill her if it flared up again for a repeat performance.

In short, she's a bird trapped in a gilded cage, hemmed in by fear of death, loneliness, poverty, afraid to do anything that could even slightly ripple her position, so she has retreated behind a veil and walled herself off from everything that could remotely touch her. Someone here accidently on purpose referred to her as 'drug-a ji'. I assume that means she hung on to the drugs her doctors put her on, during and after the brain aneurism, and she passes her days fogged behind those as well, evading facing her true situation.

I was really rooting for the girls to get out and go to college and be normal. I wish they would try again and defy Daddy and go do it. I mean, Visions? How sweatshop. What a waste of potential. They have the means and position and all.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 11:49:01 (EST)
From: halfnhalf
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Re: Maharaji's children
Message:
This is the first time I've responded in this forum. Just wanted to say that I'd love to get actual facts and first hand knowledge (pardon the pun) instead of 'I would imagine, I've heard, apparently, from what I hear, others have posted here', etc. This conversation and all of the following are nothing more than gossip, innuendo, and speculation and a waste of everyone's time.

Get a life girls. You are what you focus on! Focus on the past and you'll turn into one of those angry, bitter, gossipy negative old ladies in the nursing home someday. There are people out here who actually have something real and factual to relay.

I'm not denying that you have some wounds heal with GMJ/DLM/ETC. but bitching and gossiping won't touch it. A good therapist might. There are also a plethora of wonderful spiritual paths, practices, teachers, and communities out there. Just because you struck out with one path doesn't mean that the Ultimate doesn't exist. You already are enlightened, just accept it and stop living in the past. Your story is the only thing standing in the way.

I sincerely hope you find the peace, love, and understanding that will heal you hearts and fill your lives with Truth and beauty.

'You are That that you have been searching for.'

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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 15:15:21 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: halfnhalf
Subject: That 'ole ''get a life''...LOL
Message:
To half and half:

'Get a life' is quite a worn out old phrase that we ex-premies have heard over and over again. I'll ignore that you said it:) I don't know who you are, so I take a risk even answering you.

Exiting the Maharajism cult, or any cult for that matter, is not just walking away--it involves quite of bit of personal work and renewed self-discovery. It requires regaining our minds and re-programming ourselves in the real world, not maharaji's world. Read up on it, there are many great anti-cult sites which can explain the process in and the affects on people, as well as the process out of a cult.

You said:

There are also a plethora of wonderful spiritual paths, practices, teachers, and communities out there. Just because you struck out with one path doesn't mean that the Ultimate doesn't exist. You already are enlightened, just accept it and stop living in the past. Your story is the only thing standing in the way.

Wrong, wrong, wrong and wrong again. You obviously don't know anything about being brainwashed, worshipping a human as a god-in-a-bod, or giving up a huge chunk of your life. The last thing I would advise someone who has exited a cult is to look for a new spiritual path. Some ex-premies, like me, just don't have the stomach for it. Some ex-premies still use meditation, some don't. Some of us are atheists or agnostics now. It's life damaging stuff, 1/2 'n 1/2...

Plus, try finding a therapist who knows anything about exiting a cult. Just try. I dare you. And who's going to pay for it? Maharaji? I've already spent too much of my life in therapy, the only people who understand this particular cult are ex-premies. I'm simply trying to explain.

We have plenty of facts, believe me. More facts that I wish were true. You need to read the EPO site in order to understand. Start with the Jagdeo matter, read Michael Dettmers' and Michael Donner's accounts of their life with the guru.

Anth, who posted below, was a teacher of Maharaji's children--when they were children.

So why are you here? To insult? To belittle? To instruct about something you obviously know nothing about?

That's about all I can think of in response.

Thank you for you half-assed post!

Sincerely,
Cynthia J. Gracie, Definitely NOT A GIRL!

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Date: Fri, Jan 25, 2002 at 09:37:16 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Correction in my post...
Message:
In my above post seventh paragraph, first and second sentence should have read:

We have facts, believe me. More facts than I wish were true.

Bad sentence anyway...I should have said: I wish some of those facts were not true.

Just to set the record straight.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 18:20:13 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: 1/2 assed post, LOL
Message:
Beautifully said Cynthia. The half-assed posters think they are so wise when they post their condescending slurs. But, you know, they just don't know that that is what they're doing. Unfortunately.

Cheers,

deb

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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 14:49:14 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: halfnhalf
Subject: Gossip and innuendo.
Message:
Hi halfnhalf,

Just to let you know my post above, about the children's education, isn't based on gossip and innuendo, but hard facts.

Anth the direct experience.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 13:32:15 (EST)
From: Livia
Email: None
To: halfnhalf
Subject: re 'gossip and innuendo'
Message:
halfnhalf, what to you constitutes an actual fact? A first-hand report like those from Dettmers, Donner etc both on here and at EPO? I have heard premies put those down to 'anger and resentment at no longer being welcome in Maharaji's inner circle, etc etc' or some other such spin. What kind of facts do you want? Bob Mishler reported the facts as he experienced them firsthand back in 1976 and few believed him at the time. I for one thought he must have gone completely 'manmat' or whatever the word was back then for someone who was completely 'in their mind'.

Most of what's on here, dear halfnhalf, is far from 'gossip, innuendo, speculation and a waste of everybody's time.' It's a genuine attempt by everyone here to sort through what was ACTUALLY HAPPENING while we led our lives according to the faith, belief, whatever, that Maharaji was the lord,perfect master, whatever. And no, that wasn't premie concepts - those concepts were put there by him, I'm afraid. I was there when he said that the perfect master is God in human form and 'as a matter of fact I am perfect master'. And if things were going on at the time that would have given us serious pause for thought IF WE HAD KNOWN ABOUT THEM, then it can only be clarifying IN THE EXTREME to find out about them now. And who better to discuss all this with but each other? Remember, this was never just about a practice of meditation but about surrender to Maharaji, which many of us genuinely tried to do in our lives for years and years.

And who here is saying that the ultimate doesn't exist? Some of us still feel that it does, some don't and that's up to each individual. Some are already following other practices, some still practice the knowledge techniques. Each to their own.

Meanwhile I suggest if you want hard facts, go to EPO and read everything there. Then you might want to come back here and not be quite so patronising.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 14:52:43 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Livia
Subject: halfnhalf.
Message:
Hi Vicki,

Maybe halfnhalf was just talking about this thread, and not the whole forum.

Anth the hippy.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 12:02:17 (EST)
From: Vicki
Email: None
To: halfnhalf
Subject: Half n Half
Message:
Do you really want first hand information about his kids and their observed drug behaviour to be posted on a public forum? We can oblige but that would be stooping to CAC behaviour.
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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 12:00:13 (EST)
From: Mirror
Email: None
To: halfnhalf
Subject: Re: Maharaji's children
Message:
Get a life girls. You are what you focus on! Focus on the past and you'll turn into one of those angry, bitter, gossipy negative old ladies in the nursing home someday. There are people out here who actually have something real and factual to relay.

I'm not denying that you have some wounds heal with GMJ/DLM/ETC. but bitching and gossiping won't touch it. A good therapist might. There are also a plethora of wonderful spiritual paths, practices, teachers, and communities out there. Just because you struck out with one path doesn't mean that the Ultimate doesn't exist. You already are enlightened, just accept it and stop living in the past. Your story is the only thing standing in the way.

I sincerely hope you find the peace, love, and understanding that will heal you hearts and fill your lives with Truth and beauty.

'You are That that you have been searching for.'


---

We are well aware that we are already enlightened dear halfnhalf. Thanks for the non info. Of course you are that which you search for. There is nothing else.

Now move on, and do something fun with it, like speculating on this forum about the education of M's kids, or useful, like healing the wounds of cult-life through cyber interaction. Anything will do, for whatever we do, we are already enlightenment itself. This IS life. You can't GET it.

Mirror

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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 10:36:40 (EST)
From: Vicki
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Re: Maharaji's children
Message:
Perhaps this site will be of help to the divine royal kids
[ Career knowledge ]
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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 11:27:28 (EST)
From: Livia
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: link doesn't work (nt)
Message:
Damn! This link doesn't work!
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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 11:51:21 (EST)
From: Vicki
Email: None
To: Livia
Subject: Re: link doesn't work (nt)
Message:
Phewey! Can't get it to copy correctly.

Here's the address: http://www.careeradvantage.com/comatic.htm

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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 07:47:01 (EST)
From: magnolia
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: m. the anti-education parent?
Message:
hi janet-

you say that m's daughters wanted to go to college but were pressured by their father to join the family business instead. if this is so, how awful for a parent to discourage his own children from seeking a higher education. as a mother of two wonderful daughters still in middle and high school, i always encourage them to learn all they can. my parents didn't have money to put me through college, but i ate day-old bread, rode my bike and the bus instead of driving, and wore goodwill clothing while working my way through school (hey, wait a minute, i'm still eating salvage groceries and shopping yard sales! but not all the time, 20 years later). m. could have afforded to send his kids to whatever university they could get into. do you think that m., who is clever but basically a junior high dropout, might also be intimidated by the possibility that his children could obtain college degrees and leave the maharaji-compound for good? education is power.

i get aggravated whenever my daughters correct me or use their brilliant minds to put me down as teenagers like to do. but i'm also proud of their intelligence and hope that they grow up to learn and achieve far more than i dared to. it seems that only a very bad parent would wish for less.

magnolia the good mommy

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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 08:36:19 (EST)
From: Livia
Email: None
To: magnolia
Subject: Re: m. the anti-education parent???
Message:
Totally agree with you Magnolia. I was appalled to read that Maharaji forbade/dissuaded his children from going to college. Sorry, being English I don't know the US system. Are parents over there expected pay for their kids to go to college if they are well off? Is there a system of loans as well? If so, one can only hope that the kids decide to do it for themselves one day even if daddy does refuse to pay. Incidentally did he just refuse to pay, or did he actually FORBID them to go? This is very interesting. Actually the more I think about it the more appalling it seems, and suspicious in the extreme. Something to tell my education-loving, fence-sitting close premie friend ....

Thanks for the information, everybody.

With love, Livia

PS Any more information out there very welcome.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 09:06:06 (EST)
From: magnolia
Email: None
To: Livia
Subject: you need tax info for school loans!
Message:
livia-

any parent that i have known would help their children go to school if they were able. in lieu of that, there are certainly school loans, but here's an interesting catch: unless it's changed recently, the unemancipated child (still living at home or at least not economically independent) must provide their parents' financial information in order to complete loan and/or grant applications. because of this, i would suspect that any offspring of a rich american would either be dependent upon their parents' money or else their parents' cooperation in providing financial information. or, like me, they would go to a cheap, humble community college and wait tables to pay their own way.

on the other hand, these kids have had a glamorous, privileged lifestyle. perhaps they weren't terribly determined to get more education, because it could be scary to learn that one's entire life was built upon a premise that could be shot to hell in one semester of a good liberal arts school.

love,
magnolia who lost her religion in her freshman year of college

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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 10:35:01 (EST)
From: Livia
Email: None
To: magnolia
Subject: Aha! (nt)
Message:
Aha!
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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 07:17:30 (EST)
From: Bodhi
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Yeah! and we paid for it....(nt)
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 14:54:53 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Bodhi
Subject: Thank you very much for paying my wages.
Message:
Thank you very much. Thank you very very very much.

Anth the grateful.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 15:52:57 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: For You, Anth, I make exceptions...:) [nt]
Message:
You are such a dear heart, and look what you started here on the forum, everyone at some point, signs off with their name, plus a comment.

You are an innovator!

Love,
Cynth

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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 20:10:03 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: LOL
Message:
You're not the only one who makes exceptions for me Cynthia. I think folk think, 'Uh uh. Here's a nutter. Be nice to him, or who knows what he might do.'

Then there's my loving wife... I guess she always wanted to do some sort of social work and god granted her wish.

Ah well, you can't win 'em all.

Anth, 52 and still haven't decided what I want to be when I grow up.

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Date: Fri, Jan 25, 2002 at 10:27:50 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Re: LOL
Message:
Anth,

Well, I'm 48 and I still haven't decided what I want to be when I grow up.

No More Business Administration and Management! Yeck!

Cynthia, The horror, oh, the horror of corporations

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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 00:09:20 (EST)
From: Vicki
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Heart of a child or that of a stone.....
Message:
Anyone at Long Beach when Maharaji was saying to be in his world, we needed the heart of a child but to be out in the world, we needed a heart of stone?

I distinctly do.

So when I was reading a post with the rhetorical question of why doesn't Maharaji make amends for all he's done, I had quite a horrible realization.

He doesn't make amends because Elan Vital, knowledge, the social structure of premies, the parasitic financial contributions, are exactly as he wants them. He's spent many, many years, to get them this way. And if fifty million dollars is remotely accurate, he did pretty darn good.

I used to ask this same question when my husband became the fall guy for one of the largest corporations in the U.S. because the COO lost the biggest single stop accound they had, which he had gotten for them. My husband nurtured and babied and basically held a major computer manufacturing firm's hand from infancy to becoming a Fortune 500 and beyond company. COO's don't want their board of directors knowing such a mistake was made. He and the CEO played the "good cop/bad cop" routine with the employees, to keep the CEO as the beloved commander in chief.

And the tactics they use are identical to Elan Vital's and Maharaji's. This company, like many others, put in place Policy and Procedures books which are hundreds of pages long. They get the employees to believe every word in it. The employees trust and place all their faith in these books, which they are told are there to protect them.

One big catch; they aren't union therefore they aren't legal. It is not a binding contract. They aren't worth the paper they are printed on.

The company knows this. They designed it this way. Just as Maharaji designed everything that we keep hoping he'll atone for. Why do we think he will? Because he was in it for one thing, and we were in it for something else. The fact that things got a little 'out of hand', to blatantly understate it, with Jagdeo, etc. is really too bad, but give up his empire for a few mistakes?

I can't see it happening, now that I see how it really is and always has been. It's not lila. It's not anything but material gain.

What income did his family have in India, other than contributions from poor Indian premies and maybe one or two well off ones? Did any member of his family actually hold a job or get a degree?

So he was born into this system of taking from others. He had a choice and he chose to perpetuate it. Even his own family now seem to be doing the same. Maybe his kids, or at least one, has gone to college, but where does their income really come from? Visions and Uncle Valerio's little schemes that are based off premie's wallets?

I would be shocked to my core if Maharaji apoligized or fested up to anything. There's too much at stake for him and his inheritors.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 15:31:58 (EST)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: Completely agree
Message:
And you also leave out the gigantuan size of his ego, which is monstrous.

The only way he would ever apologize is if there was a large financial gain for him and he was unbelievably desperate, and he wouldn't mean a single word that he says.

His really is the ultimate snake peddlers charm family business, with all the scruples that go with such a firm.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 17:43:14 (EST)
From: Peg
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: Speaking of his ego does anyone remember
Message:
a satsang which I read soon after getting K in '72. It was in that little A5 glossy, don't remember what it was called. He said something like 'My ego is so big that if I didn't meditate I would ....' can't remember what the outcome would be but it was something like explode or destroy the world. Does anyone else remember this or what he said? I never really understood what he meant by that.

Peg

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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 07:18:39 (EST)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: as to college degrees--
Message:
none of his children have gotten to enter college. Pemlata was poised to enter USC when Daddy forbid it and put her at Visions.

His oldest brother Satpal, ie. Bal Bhagwan Ji, was always a brilliant student and had an academic mind, and when Mata Ji took him back to India and named him Satguru of their branch of the Indian mission, he re entered his studies and got a degree in the University there. It's on his website, Manav Dharam', if you want to look up the specifics. Unlike his wastrel kid brother, he got a legitimate job for a while, also ran for and got elected to office for a while, and runs his mission in the model of actual service, directing his sollowing to do real charity works like opening their grounds and kitchens to take care of refugees from disasters like the Gujarat earthquake, floods, and so forth. Sat pal has been awarded recognition and huge cash donations in public ceremonies, for he and his followers' relief work, helping the homeless resulting from such disasters, and it gets used the way charity is supposed to administer such contributions, not the way his profligate brother uses such sums.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 12:00:00 (EST)
From: Vicki
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Re: as to college degrees--
Message:
Thanks Janet, very interesting web site. It still makes me wonder, in light of their obvious abundance of groceries, and expensive looking clothes, just how much of the contributions go to their coffers vs humanitarian deeds? I'm leery of any awards; they are too easy to buy/bribe/pr one's way into.

I'll give Satpal credit for getting a university degree, but I have to wonder, was it to keep DLM under his and Mata's control, and has he ever gotten a job out in the real 9-5 world? Or does he have the same thing going on, just on a different scale, ie relying on his devotee's contributions to maintain their obvious above average lifesyle?

Oops, didn't someone say Bolji was once a taxi cab driver? Well, if that's true, he actually is the one with the most credibility! Who'd have thought. He's looking might dapper now in his expensive and expansive duds.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 02:26:32 (EST)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: What a clear Post !
Message:
Utter clarity of perception.

I think from here on in, the veils will be falling from our eyes.. and we will see deeper and deeper into the skeleton of the beast which pretends to be all light and insubstantial.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 00:25:26 (EST)
From: Steve Mueller
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: Re: Heart of a child or that of a stone.....
Message:
Thou spaketh truthfully, Vicki. Besides, that there Jesus-Wannabe feller undoubtedly subscribes to this tenet: God doesn't have to apologize for anything. God is God. God makes his/her own rules. He either believes this or is so morally corrupt that he just plain doesn't care what anybody thinks - all that matters is that the cash keeps on a rollin in.
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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 08:00:47 (EST)
From: Mirror
Email: None
To: Steve Mueller
Subject: Profitsharing of PAM's?
Message:
I wonder how he does it: brainwash the masses. I mean, he needs people to do help him do that job (instructors/fundraisers). Are those honchos suffering from brainwashing too? Or are they in it for different reasons? Are there some high ups in it for a cut in the profit?
Or is everyone around him, including wife, kids, mystress etc. 'under the influence' truly believing they are in it for some higher spiritual purpose (like most of us used to).

Mirror

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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 08:22:18 (EST)
From: The Maharaji of Malibu
Email: None
To: Mirror
Subject: invites 3 types to his kingdom
Message:
You can use different names for these roles but I see 3 types.

1) re-enforcers-these are the largest population in the malibu maha's cult; small donators or those that give no money; their primary role is to make things look real by populating events

2) Donators-this is what it's all about after all; an investigation into the special treatment they receive proves this

3) Co-conspirators-these are the ones who have caught on to the maharaji of malibu's gig, have skills valuable to perpetuating the scam and are compensated financially; I've often wondered if any of these are blackmailing their beloved Lord

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 23:41:13 (EST)
From: Brainwashing a la M:
Email: None
To: All
Subject: let's call it: hogwashing
Message:
Critters (like M) that take and take and take too much . . . we call them hogs, yes?

Yes, Stevieji.

Well then, the proper term to describe M's methods is: HOGWASH-ing

Yes, oh, yes, that makes sense, Stevieji.

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 20:31:36 (EST)
From: 210
Email: None
To: All
Subject: re: a thread below
Message:
I was reading Sir Dave's thread below: ''I won't say it''. Fascinating reading. I watch my beloved partner sit every day and gaze worshipfully at the new maharaji website. It is nothing but one banal, meaningless phrase after another--with some wallpaper music playing. If one really stops and looks at these ''quotes'' he has put on his website, one has to wonder, ''Who is reading this drivel?'' For some time I waited for rawat to say somthing new. Then I realized that he's never said anything, really, so waiting for something ''new'' is ludicrous. The videos are pathetic. Repetitious, boring in the extreme, mostly about an hour, or if your luck has run out longer, of that bloated, smirking face and idiocies spewing from it. And he blames others that no one wants to receive knowledge? One look at that mug and his ''inspirational sayings'' and most thinking, self-realized people would turn away from it as useless garbage, if not in actual distaste or disgust. Rawat is a loathesome creature. He should be done with it and retire, but that would end his income. Pity. Does the IRS know about his ''church'' and the ''free'' knowledge he ''gives'', all the while living in more than luxury?
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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 23:58:02 (EST)
From: Steve Mueller
Email: None
To: 210
Subject: IRS working over M
Message:
Hey there, blissful one. Speaking of the IRS (or any other entity) scrutinizing his operation, the lady who sought my advice offered to connect me up with some media types if I felt that the glare of their searchlights would help speed up M's demise. I declined for the following reasons. (1) Let's not empower him or raise his profile by giving him any free publicity (2) Let's spare potential future victims from being exposed to his evil empire (3) A thrashing out by the media isn't needed anymore. EPO, Drek-ula, and Forum 7 are doing one helluva job of exposing his fraud and are far more effective in getting thru to those still caught in his grip. Peace.
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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 03:37:37 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Steve Mueller
Subject: Give Maharaji the Publicity!
Message:
Hey there, blissful one. Speaking of the IRS (or any other entity) scrutinizing his operation, the lady who sought my advice offered to connect me up with some media types if I felt that the glare of their searchlights would help speed up M's demise. I declined for the following reasons. (1) Let's not empower him or raise his profile by giving him any free publicity (2) Let's spare potential future victims from being exposed to his evil empire (3) A thrashing out by the media isn't needed anymore. EPO, Drek-ula, and Forum 7 are doing one helluva job of exposing his fraud and are far more effective in getting thru to those still caught in his grip. Peace.


---

Steve,

I disagree. Give Maharaji the publicity. Yes, we're doing a good job with the ex sites on the internet, but the internet doesn't reach everyone. If the media are interested in doing a piece on Maharaji, then let's give them all the help they need. The hard part is getting them interested. As Maharaji has been out of the public eye for so many years, he doesn't sell mewspapers. In the UK we helped The Guardian with their articles on Jon Cainer and Maharaji, but it was Cainer who was newsworthy. Jean-Michel helped Combat magazine in France, but there all cults had become newsworthy because of their new anti-cult law. No, if you have the opportunity, the time and the will to get Maharaji into the papers, or on TV, then IMO, do it!

John.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 14:19:56 (EST)
From: Steve Mueller
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Its agreed. Its time to go to press.
Message:
John, I got more emails from Z, sent her some also, and we are agreed to go forward. I'll include an email I sent her asking that it be done in such a way as to not hurt premies or exes since being victimized once by M is more than enough. I think I speak for all of us when I say that we need the media to focus on him - not on the names of his victims. Here's my email to her:

Dear Z,

Thanks for getting back to me. I enjoy your emails. They bristle with much inner joy. It's good to know people whose happiness and love of life is so palpable.

I thought about it and realized that it really isn't fair for me to tell you what you should or should not do regarding bringing the media spotlight onto M and his evil empire. You're the one who is suffering because the man you love is thoroughly caught up in his cult. I can tell you love him very much and are at a point where you would be willing to do whatever you can if you thought there was a chance that that action would help liberate him from M and his cult. I, too, would like to relieve his and many others' suffering.

The primary thing holding me back from saying go for it is my dread of having enough information about myself from getting into the media - name, photograph, quotes from EPO - anything that could potentially cause my employer enough embarrassment through association with me that they would have to fire me. When I joined my company six years ago, it was made very clear to me that I should not do anything that could bring discredit or reflect unfavorably upon my company. (Remember John Grundseth?) Even when I was an active cult member, I knew, we all knew, that what M was doing, while not illegal, was considered so far out there (Lord of the Universe for Pete sake) that, for our economic security, we had best keep our mouths shut in our places of employment for fear of giving our bosses an easy reason to fire us.

So, Z, that is my one great fear concerning the media. As much as I would love to expose the hell out of M, I am very fearful for my job security.

That said, if you are still determined to go ahead, then, it is not my place to say no. Like I said, you are the one who is suffering because of So-and-so's involvement. Do what you feel you have to. I just need to keep my name or anything else about myself out of the papers or TV. This is especially true in today's economy where my employer has less need to hang onto me than before 9-11. I sincerely hope that great care would be taken to not inadvertently cause economic hardship to either myself, exes, or even to the premies themselves if that can be helped. I don't hate premies. I am sad for them and feel compassion for their unrecognized suffering. I wouldn't want to do anything to add financial hardship to their plight. I would, however, like to see M's source of funding - premies' donations - dried up and to see him put out of the God business. I only ask that you please be careful when doing what you feel you have to do to expose M. These people (myself included) are not criminals. They have not broken any laws. They have been victimized by M once already. They should not undergo further victimization by the media also (thanks to M). What M has done, even though he may have technically and legally stayed just within existing laws, nevertheless is absolutely despicable and horrendous and he needs to be stopped.

So, the challenge is: how to expose M and the evilness of his cult in a way that does not cause severe economic hardship to those he has already victimized once.

Follow your heart. Good luck. God speed.

Sincerely,

Steve

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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 23:17:02 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Steve Mueller
Subject: You don't have to jeapordize your job
Message:
Put some more thought into it. There are many ways to skin a cat here. Why don't think of the best way to do that without drawing attention to yourself. The onus is on Rawat and his apologists to squirm their way out of the inquest, not you.

Now, if you were talking about suing, that would be different. You're not. Think it through.

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Date: Fri, Jan 25, 2002 at 08:42:02 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: I agree - Don't risk your job! [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 09:44:07 (EST)
From: Yes, and...
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: ...mention his name to the IRS (nt)
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 21:17:11 (EST)
From: Anandaji
Email: None
To: 210
Subject: Re: re: a thread below
Message:
Errr...wouldn't the IRS be raking in a healthy percentage?
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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 22:30:01 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Anandaji
Subject: No! Of course not
Message:
Maha is listed as a church. Church = tax-free. Besides that, much of his donations are cash. Cash = not accountable=not traceable. And the large donations are given with the assistance of Maha's aids who tell the premies how to sign over the donations so that it can be handled efficiently by Maha's financial servants.
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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 23:42:00 (EST)
From: Anandaji
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: IRS - Taxes
Message:
So not a dollar of his millions goes to taxes? Isn't he involved in some for profit enterprizes? The feds must be getting something out of him.
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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 09:08:44 (EST)
From: Gina
Email: None
To: Anandaji
Subject: Re: IRS - Taxes
Message:
I keep wondering if there isn't some way the IRS could penetrate his 'church' screen and get him for tax evasion.

My husband mentioned him to the IRS last year. A few months ago, a musician friend of ours, a phenomenal music genius and virtuoso, innocent, remarkable, 'just came to play a few tunes,' was arrested by the IRS for 'tax evasion.' My husband, because of his professional association with this man, was called in to give a deposition. When the questioning was done, my husband, quietly irate, asked the IRS lawyers if he could give a closing statement, which they agreed he could do. He said, 'Why don't guys stop wasting all our time chasing down and harrassing innocent people and try going after some of the REAL bad guys.' He pointed out that 'while the IRS is obsessed with going after innocent musicians the real villains are getting away...such as, among others, the 'false prophet' charlatans hiding behind 'churches' to amass tax-free millions, like the one known as Guru Maharaji.'

I wonder if each of us were to mention the goober to the IRS, perhaps if enough people asked the IRS to check his religious curtain for holes, maybe they would take a closer look and find a way to get him. It's for damn sure they'd get more revenue out of busting goobergee than from continuing to harrass the musicians.

It's just so hard to believe he gets away with it.

Gina

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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 23:25:57 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Gina
Subject: Should send open letter from Forum
Message:
This letter could emphasize our grievances and first hand knowledge. How many people are encouraged to give cash. Do they give Maha a T4 if they donate more than 650/year. They apparently should. How about making multi-millions in one day (Arizona-only 600 of heavy-hitters).

How come the donations and spending money goes proportionally to the decrease in followers. The IRS will accept the leads, that I know for sure. If enough people sign it, they will check into it.

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 23:46:58 (EST)
From: Nope
Email: None
To: Anandaji
Subject: Re: IRS - Taxes
Message:
Not out of Elan Vital and Visions and contributions which are categorized as 'gifts of love'. Unless he has some side businesses,
which I doubt, that are legitimate, he doesn't. Why else would he live in a mansion, fly jets/helicoptors and swish around the ocean in a boat registered with the Seva corporation, who's only function is to supply him with the aforementioned. Verrrrry tricky, protecting one's millions.
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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 15:43:15 (EST)
From: Oh? You Didn't Know It Could ...
Email: mistyqm@mn.mediaone.net
To: All
Subject: Get This Bad? Oh Yeah? It Did. For Me.
Message:
A non-premie woman who I'll call Z sent me an email seeking my advice on whether or not she should stay with or dump her premie boyfriend. I responded to her with what I had originally intended to be a private correspondence between her and me. Then, after painfully enduring my wife's rather apathetic reaction when she read it (didn't fizz on her in the least because she has plenty of internet friends now and refuses to try to get back to what we once had), I thought, what the hell, I've got nothing to lose by warning others about just how evil M is and what a horrible, ugly mess one can get into from continuing to follow him. (Pay close attention you premies who are sneaking into EPO - this could happen to you or your spouse). She writes:

Hello,

I'm dating someone who follows M and I've been so darn frightened and SURE this is all a cult-thing. Now I'm certain after sitting up tonight reading various sites on line.

I'd like some help or at least some advice about how to move forward with trying to get my boyfriend some much needed help. But, of course, realizing he's in a steadfast place of denial, that may just be a mute point. He's getting deeper and deeper into it and I want no part of it.

I'm quite intuitive and I knew something was amiss right away when we started dating. It just felt 'dark'. Now I know why - or at least I have more visual proof of the dark feeling.

I've grown to care very much and truly love this man. His belief in knowledge has only served to keep us apart and it's not at all a tool to make us more connected. It's like he's married to this cult and I've finally heard my inner voice enough about all this - it's not healthy.

I just wish there were something I could do. Can you please send me any words of wisdom as someone who used to be involved? This is very important to me. A bit scary also..... I'm even hesitant to write to you, a complete stranger, for help. Something inside is drawing me toward writing to you for help.

Thank you, I appreciate anything you can write me as a means of support for myself as I confront him.

Much thanks,

Z

To which I responded to her with:

Dear Z,

That is really, really tough - being in love with a premie (er, cult victim of the Maharaji variety who refuses to see and admit it). What is really insidious about M's cult is that we really thought - for decades - that we were the real deal, that it was only all those other groups that were cults - not us. I've said on forum seven that it takes a lot (and I mean a LOT) of courage and humility to admit to yourself that you were (pardon the crudeness here) fucked over by a fraudulent little Indian would-be massa (perfect master, Jesus
wannabe). (By the way, after I exed two months ago, my wife reminded me that she had told me I was involved in a cult way back in 1994 when I started getting involved again after a thirteen year 'dormancy' but I refused to listen to her (as you say, denial).)

Z, I'm going to describe an incident that happened to my wife and me at the height (er, depth) of my brainwashing about seven years ago that may cause you to seriously reconsider whether you really want to continue a serious relationship (or more) with this premie. This is confidential. It's very personal stuff. I would not want this talked about beyond here, certainly not on the net and certainly not with the cult victim. (I don't need any enemies.) I'm sharing it with you because your call for help has touched a
been-there-done-that-blew-it-big-time place in me from my past and if sharing this helps to spare you from a lifetime of heartbreak, I'd like to help.

About seven years ago I went thru a period of dedication to my meditation at night that I was so committed to that (this is actually true - I'm ashamed to say I actually did this) one night when my wife asked me to come to bed and lay next to her (not even necessarily have sex - just lie next to her), I refused saying that this was my time to be with Maharaji, to meditate. She started pleading. I still refused. She starting crying and moaning, still pleading with me to come to bed with her. I still refused. She then retreated to her bedroom and underwent what I now know to be such a deep level of psychological and emotional trauma that it destroyed any semblance of intimacy that we had ever had before that point. She changed towards me dramatically and permanently. We have not been intimate in any way, since then. For all practical purposes, she has been suffering from (my induced) post-traumatic stress syndrome ever since. She harbors such deep anger and resentment towards me that we can no longer enjoy anything remotely approaching the relaxed, playful sort of fun and humor that we used to. She is very edgy with me. I have to be careful of what I say around her for fear of setting her off. I have suggested our getting some counseling help but she refuses to consider it. Now that I have lost her to the wide circle of friends she has made on the Internet I see no possibility of ever regaining the kind of fun-filled intimacy that we once had. I ruined my married love life forever. My alternatives? Continue as is, living with the enemy so to speak, or divorce her. Divorcing her after twenty years of marriage, with my huge salary and her relatively meager salary would surely plunge both of us very nearly into poverty. We both fear being poor too much to want that - so, we just continue coexisting as peacefully as we can, with her PTS as a constant companion and reminder of how horrid and evil
and sick and destructive a cult can be on a marriage.

I hate to have to be the bearer of bad news to you but if you value your peace of mind and happiness over fear of feeling a bit of loneliness once in a while, do not pursue this cult victim further. I'm married and, thanks to my stupidity from seven years ago, I also feel quite alone, even lonely at times, right inside my own home with my wife only feet away from me. I can't blame her. I did it to her all by myself. THAT, Z, is how horrible and evil a cult is. It has the potential of (pardon the crudeness here but it emphasizes my point well) of fucking up a person's head so thoroughly that they cannot stop themselves
from hurting the one who loves them in the way I hurt my wife.

From bitter and sad experience I have learned that there are far worse things in life than being lonely once in awhile. For the sake of your happiness and peace of mind you have to leave this person. And when you break it to him, do so as calmly as you can. Without a show of anger. Do so in a way that defuses the inevitable anger he will feel at being dumped. You don't want to make an enemy of this person either. The words I would use would be something like this: So-and-so, I've given it a lot of thought and I don't feel comfortable continuing my relationship with you. I feel it is in my best interests to just call it off. I don't think it is good for me to continue being friends with you anymore. (Z, not part of what you say to him: the dark feelings of uneasiness you expressed to me are ample reason - no need to mention my advice to you.) I wish you good luck with your life but I can't be part of it any more. Good bye.

So, I wish you better luck with your love life than I've had. Good luck.

Sincerely,

Steve Mueller

In order to protect the woman's identity in the event her boyfriend happens to read EPO, I will not say what she ended up deciding to do about it. This is extremely embarrassing for me to tell - for me it comes pretty close to the kind of humiliation that a sex-with-M woman would encounter if she were to decide to reveal her exploits with M. I resisted doing this but ended up doing so in order to (a) help further slong my own healing and exing process (it aint always just playful bantar, jokes and fun stuff) and (b) alert aspirants, other significant others of active premies, and fence-sitting, potential exes of just how bad it can get when you follow M, especially when you do so with the level of fanaticism that I used to. I can only hope they will heed the warning from my (still ongoing) painful and bitter experience.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 11:46:26 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Oh? You Didn't Know It Could ...
Subject: The triangle...
Message:
Dear Steve,

After reading your post a couple of times I want to urge you to not blame yourself too much. So many couples have split up over goomraji and as everyone said below, each relationship is unique. Marriages and any intimate partnerships are always unique, whether or not one of the partners is involved with a cult. The intimacy of a partnership is something that outsiders cannot understand, because the nature of intimacy is just that: private (and I'm not just talking about sex).

The sad truth is, however, that if one person in the relationship is in a cult, our cult, there are automatically three. That is, maharaji always has to come first--that's the program, that's the essential part of living and worshipping another human being above everyone else. Unfortunately, it ends up being maharaji.

This issue has been a problem I experienced and observed since I became a premie in 1976. Premies who are married to eachother have had terrible conflict about this. Who is it that you love the most, Maharaji or me? If a person stays in the cult, the answer will always be maharaji, because that's the way we have been programed to operate.

Look, it's not like you took a yoga class and started meditating for relaxation. You were in a cult--and exited recently. But--still don't be too hard on yourself. You are working hard to straighten out the mess caused by: Maharaji. I place the blame at his doorstep.

Maharaji has bounced back and forth on this issue since I can remember. After Deca, I was working part time in Miami at DLM headquarters processing divorces for premies who wanted to join the ashram. It involved those with children, too.

After I left the ashram in 1981, I met my husband, and severed ties with maharaji, but I still loved maharaji--all of my ingrained programming remained intact. I learned a big lesson during those years because we had a huge circle of friends (all non premies) who were all couples. After about five years about seven out of ten of those marriages ended, and Tom and I were left to sort out the friends. We both made huge mistakes by getting emeshed in the divorces and learned so much about not getting involved in others' marital problems. Taking sides turned out to be disastrous. And the loss of many of those friends was difficult to say the least. Our entire circle of friends fell apart. That's why moving away to Vermont helped a lot, but even then, our closest friends, who helped us get up here and get established, got divorced. None of these people were ever premies or even knew I was a premie.

So, as complicated as any relationship can be, it's always good advice to stay out of others' intimate business. A world of trouble can backlash and in our case, we were blamed for interferrence when we were only trying to cope with keeping our friends.

But in the cult? Ah, that's a whole different situation. Maharaji is always in the middle: of the love, of the bed, of the commitment, of the money.

It is like having a mistress or lover, when the premie half of the marriage must become secretive. But, isn't that the nature of a cult? Secrecy? Anything for maharaji at any cost?

Both suffer and again, an intimate relationship is only as strong as the love, regardless of years together. My husband was very patient with me. Yet he was quite happy when I finally told him I was finished with the guru. (Now he's jealous of the forum!!) He doesn't quite understand it, and has never read it, because he hates computers and has no interest in them at all. But we've talked it out, and he now allows me my time on the ex forum, because I had to explain to him why it helps me.

That my relationship. Every single one is different. I have found that being best friends with eachother has been our salvation, besides the love: communication, tolerance and patience.

I wish you the best...if you want to email me, please do: sylviecyn@yahoo.com.

Love,
Cynthia

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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 14:38:11 (EST)
From: Steve Mueller
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Re: The triangle...
Message:
Thank SO MUCH Cynthia! I REALLY appreciate your support! You're a gem!
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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 16:15:56 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Steve Mueller
Subject: So are you, Steve...
Message:
and don't forget that.

The email invitation is open, I'd love to hear from you.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 10:42:47 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Oh? You Didn't Know It Could ...
Subject: Re: Get This Bad? Oh Yeah? It Did. For Me.
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 02:09:33 (EST)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: Oh? You Didn't Know It Could ...
Subject: The Selfish Truth
Message:
Steve,what a beautiful, raw and honest post... it expresses so vividly the danger of this 'jelous little god' in setting people 'above' each other.

Divide and Conquor is M's Strategy from the start.

I am getting seriously close to dismantling my altar.

I was a very messed up teenager when I got K - dreamy, emotionally unworldly and gay but in a vague denial... and so Knowledge and M offered me a place of my own, where by not needing other people I could avoid confronting the very issues necessary to my growth.

from the age of 18 to 33 I used the Techniques and psychology of K as a weapon. as a shield... and in many ways I am afraid I still do.

I have become comfortable, have surrendered or resigned to my state of selfish adolescence.... and the more I think of it, the less of a cult and the more dangerous maharaji and his teaching seems.

He preys upon a weakspot... this old Indian game has somehow translated/evolved into quite a sophisticated SYSTEM of psychological dis-inheritance..

It actively and simply and very professionally hooks people:

attracts only the 'open' or vulnerable...

'enjoy this life'

and then uses that said vulnerability and presents it as an ADVANTAGE
Game over.

What is becoming evident - and I dont know if this is because I am changing, or cos the zeitgeist or group awareness has shifted more articulately and clearly to understand him, or both, but the advantages of being an ex.. and being here with all you guys FAR outstrip the compromises suffered by PWKs, without their knowledge.

I think being around M for a while WAS exciting... but that was as much to do with us.

Steve - you have lots of internet friends here too. I dont know if Mrs Steve would be interested in hearing what we have to say... but forgiveness is the key.

Steve.. its NOT your Fault.

Honestly.

Forgive yourself, forgive her... you dont have to forgive maharaji because for many years he has been the focal point for un-earned projected Love , BUT he is far more Theraputic as the focal point for (in his eyes) un-earned, projected Hate.

Bad chemistry.

I am having trouble stringing my sentences together- i think its because this post has done more to EXIT me than any single other so far - and all sorts of stuff is flying round my head.

I want to rage, to babble to shout..... but there is only me here.

Me and my blanket.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 16:21:34 (EST)
From: Glad To Have Been Able To
Email: mistyqm@mn.mediaone.net
To: Loaf
Subject: Give Your Exing Some Meat, Loaf!
Message:
You and Cynthia both, I can't thank you enough for your heartfelt support! Thank you, so much! It was tough to do (overcoming the humiliation and embarrassment) to expose my private life like that and I'm glad some good seems to have come from it.

Hang, in there, Loaf, we're all gonna get through this just fine, and, being a true believer in the wheels of justice, as slow as they may turn, I think the day is not that far off when all of us will see M reap the fruits of HIS SEEDS OF UNCONSCIOUSNESS.

Love you, bro. Just love your posts, too. Peace be with you!

Steve Mueller
(who is aw-shucksing himself over the failure of HOGWASHING to catch on yet is resigning himself to the verdict of the market place of ideas)

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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 17:04:40 (EST)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: Glad To Have Been Able To
Subject: I dont care about M's fate..
Message:
Its us that matter now.. the new improved non-biological ex premie brand of post holyman.

You are right.. we is gonna be fine

Love to you too my friend

x
Loafie

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 19:13:56 (EST)
From: Peg
Email: None
To: Oh? You Didn't Know It Could ...
Subject: Please!
Message:
don't take total responsibility for what has happened in the last 7 years. I don't know anything about you or your marriage of course and really it is not my place to say anything but you sound like a decent bloke and however callous you may have been it does sound like you have got things a bit out of perspective.
If I am right you have only recently exited so please be aware that this is a very strange time and go easy on yourself.
Hope I am not being too personal.

Peg

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 23:24:51 (EST)
From: Steve Mueller
Email: None
To: Peg
Subject: Thanks, Peg
Message:
I appreciate your kind words. It's been tough. Confronting the marital strife dragon head on and slaying it with the sword of alerting others out there to the potential danger of following M too seriously is already feeling better. The stress seems to be subsiding, unravelling. Thank God we have EPO to turn to (our own Goo Anon) and thank you to everyone who has opened their heart and has shared their growing wisdom and compassion.
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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 17:53:51 (EST)
From: magnolia
Email: None
To: Oh? You Didn't Know It Could ...
Subject: can't help lovin' that man of mine
Message:
now, steve:

i don't know what the result of your advice to this woman was, but i must take issue with your utterly dire warnings to her.

as most regular readers of this forum know, i vent about my pwk every few weeks or so when i feel especially frustrated and have nowhere else to whine (and thank all of you for letting me do so, it is not worth trying to explain about m. to my uninitiated pals just so i can bitch about it to them - y'all understand). anyway, as aggravating as it is to love an old premie, i do not agree that you can tell any stranger, with certainty, that she should break it off with her pwk ASAP. i mean, there are all kinds of lovers-with-issues - alcoholics, manic-depressives, workaholics, unfaithful assholes, general losers, peter pan syndrome cases, pathological liars, thieves, and jehovah's witnesses, you name it. some of them are worth putting up/working with, and many aren't. i love my premie man, and although i catch him sneaking out of bed to go meditate in the living room, although i find visions international videos in the vcr, and although he threatens to run to the next east coast event that he can arrange to take off for, he is a terrific person, and i wouldn't trade him in for brad pitt (wait, on second thought, let me think about... no, brad's a heavy smoker, couldn't take it).

steve, love is crazy. z needs to evaluate her relationship, her love, her patience, and have a talk with her man. my pwk and i have yelled, argued, discussed, and found some compromises that kept us together. the stronger we have become as a couple, the weaker his visible connection with m. has become. he may never exit, but our future is looking better all the time.

magnolia, who can't help loving that man of mine

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 18:41:20 (EST)
From: Steve Mueller
Email: None
To: magnolia
Subject: Re: can't help lovin' that man of mine
Message:
Magnolia,

You're absolutely right. Each pwk/non-pwk relationship is unique and whether or not it needs to disolve depends on its own unique factors.
In my attempt to preserve and protect Z's privacy and freedom of action, I deliberately avoiding mentioning further information about her situation on the net. Following a long discussion with her on the phone, she herself came to the conclusion that things had deteriorated far too much (it was costing her far too much emotional pain and agony) to make continuing with the premie an option. I must stop here so as not to give her situation away.

For myself, my purpose was to illustrate just how far crazy K can make a person (refusing emotional support to a spouse in time of need) when taken to an extreme level. I shudder with horror at what I did. The problem is, the damage is done and I have a very big hole to crawl out of. The amazing thing is that, in spite of all the M&K-inspired crap I dealt my wife over the years, that she still continues to stick by me. Certainly many p/non-p relationships and marriages have survived intact without one partner having gotten as crazy as I had been. I applaud them. In my case, unfortunately I didn't have the maturity I needed when it mattered most. It's not completely too late but, boy, making my marriage work is a continuous, uphill battle. I take some responsibility, but, the thing is, we had none of this kind of trouble during the preceding 'dormant' years of 1982 to 1993. The real trouble only began when I resumed 'practicing' (hate that word).

Thanks for being understanding.

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 20:24:26 (EST)
From: magnolia
Email: None
To: Steve Mueller
Subject: wishing you all the best
Message:
steve-

i wish you the best with your wife. she must be so happy that you finally saw the light(!) and perhaps the fun and intimacy will re-emerge. it's time for a second honeymoon without bringing m. along as a chaperone!

good luck-
magnolia

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 20:36:51 (EST)
From: janet
Email: None
To: magnolia
Subject: Re: wishing you all the best, steve
Message:
try reading the 12 steps, and try using them from the vantage point of what you did while you were 'addicted' to the cult and maharaji. it may take some time, but if you work the steps seriously and take making amends--or offering amends--to your wife, in utter earnest, she might begin to realize that you mean it. you can't make her forgive you and open back up, but you can offer anything from your side that you are ready and willling to do to undo the harm you did.
the rest is on her. she can decide to hold onto the unforgiveness, or she can come to realize that she can dare to become vulnerable again. whatever she chooses to hang onto, is what she gets. its what she is giving herself. its not you, giving it to her. she can hang onto the pain, the distance, the coldness, the witholding, the memory of that time, and live like that unto her grave
---

or she can realize the reality of what she's doing to herself and to you, and come to the honest realization that she would much rather have back the fun you guys used to have together--and all the fun you didn't get to have, together..

and you can tell her so.
you can only do your side. you can't do hers.

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 23:13:53 (EST)
From: steve mueller
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Re: wishing you all the best, steve
Message:
Thanks Janet.

I forgot to mention that, prior to the PTS-inducing incident, my wife verbally expressed anger that I kept a framed, 8 x 11 picture of M a foot from the bed. She said many times that she viewed him as a threat, that she felt she was competing with him for my love and affection even though I was giving her daily back rubs and foot massages, and hugs and bi-weekly flower bouquets. She really despised him and just plain did not want him (from her point of view) in our marriage in any way, shape or form. She made me feel pretty bad about going to videos. So, over the years I learned to develop a lot of secrecy and lying. Like telling her I gave only $20/month instead of $50, $100, or sometimes more per month. For me to practice K the way I wanted to, I had to learn to lie and be sneaky. I wish she could have been more tolerant and understanding but I have to ly in the bed I made.

I'm realizing lately that culting is a disease for which one generally needs at least some outside help to totally recover from it in a way that's not too different from those recovering serious alcoholism, drugs, or sex addiction. Goo Anon?

Thanks again, Janet.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 07:29:37 (EST)
From: magnolia
Email: None
To: steve mueller
Subject: unconditional love for m.
Message:
steve-

there's only one photograph of me by the bed, and four of the divine mister m. i have also developed such a resentment toward anything m-ish, much like your wife. are we just being bitches, or what?

like you, my pwk also avoids mentioning going to videos ('oh, i was just in town, running errands') he is secretive and has become afraid of mentioning m. for fear of a catty remark from me, i'm sure. now, you have made me wonder whether he is giving money to the man and not telling me about it.

but, look at it from the non-premie's viewpoint: didn't you begin operating almost as if you were having an affair? lying, sneaking around, spending cash, all to keep up your 'relationship' with this guy? is it any wonder that we get jealous?

i can't stand the unconditional love that m. gets from my pwk. m. can be a bad person, greedy, mean, and not even acknowledge my boyfriend, and still he thinks that m. is just the greatest, most wonderful person in the universe. could i, a mere mortal who leaves the wet towel on the bathroom floor and has pms every month, ever rate that level of uncritical, unconditional devotion? my pwk is patient and loving and attentive, but i have to also be a good person to keep the spark going. m. gets it all and is an inattentive asshole to boot. if i behaved like m. toward my pwk, he would leave me in a heartbeat. isn't it reasonable that the significant others would get livid over this love connection that seems stronger than a real, everyday partnership such as your marriage and my companionship?

i once dated an alcoholic and was jealous over what seemed to be a love affair between him and the bottle. i had to be a good girlfriend, while he would run to the alcohol again and again for comfort. alcohol doesn't have to do anything, be responsible, etc., but he was obviously so in love with his addiction. it's the same dynamic, one of addiction and codependency, and i believe that you are correct in suggesting that exiting a cult is much like overcoming an addiction and that similar support would be good.

but, isn't that what this forum is about? i think that this is why you exes log onto it every day, for support and understanding. and i guess that i need to check in like some folks join al-anon, those of us coping with premies need support too.

magnolia

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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 16:48:13 (EST)
From: Steve Mueller
Email: None
To: magnolia
Subject: Re: unconditional love for m.
Message:
It's absolutely unbelievable isn't it, how, even though pwk's give SO MUCH love, devotion, time, energy, money, everything into loving M that Shri Fat Boy himself couldn't care less, doesn't even know who they are, doesn't ever surprise them at their gathering places once in a while, NOTHING. He gives them absolutely nothing in return. AND THEY CAN'T SEE THAT! They still think he loves them!
Man, what a crock! Unbelievable, just unbelievable. Somebody (not sure if it was Janet) said recently that LOVE IS ACTION. In other words, when you love someone you WANT to see them, to be with them, to shower them with love and friendship, and generally be willing to do anything you can to help them be happy. You don't play a stranger. It hurts too much to stay away from your beloved. It's so clear to us, isn't it. But not to those under his iron grip. If only they could see that it is no different for a MASSA than it is for anybody else. Anyway, I wish you all the best, Magnolia (what a beautiful name). Cheers. - Steve
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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 17:47:13 (EST)
From: livia
Email: None
To: Oh? You Didn't Know It Could ...
Subject: Re: Get This Bad? Oh Yeah? It Did. For Me.
Message:
A few months ago, a premie friend of mine rang me in extreme distress over the state of her relationship. Her non-premie boyfriend was getting increasingly upset every time she went off to meditate, saying it made him feel incredibly alone and rejected. They didn't live together but this occurred whenever they spent stretches of time together. It all came to a head when they were on holiday, and resulted in a particularly destructive row. My suggestion to her was that if she really couldn't face missing her meditation, she should at least make sure she was particularly loving and reassuring to him afterwards. My non-premie partner (I was a drifting, fence-sitting premie at the time) who knows and is fond of this woman, was in the room at the time, got the drift of the conversation and asked me if he could speak with her. She was happy to hear his view and it was unexpectedly this: 'Your boyfriend's problem is his problem and his problem alone. He should be able to handle you going off to 'tune into your inner self' from time to time if that's an important part of your life.' Actually I was somewhat amazed to hear him say this, as he has always taken an extremely dim view of Maharaji and my own involvement, but not to the extent that he would ever object to me meditating. (We have always tried hard to respect each other's space.) Anyway, this was the response of someone who has always thought Maharaji a fraud but never tried to influence me out of it.
In fact, he went on to suggest to my friend that he thought the boyfriend should be looking at his own inability to relax in his own company while she went off to meditate, and should maybe be gently persuaded to examine what could be fear of abandonment originating from issues in his own early childhood. In fact my friend's boyfriend has now come to these conclusions himself and is now considering therapy to deal with those very issues.

What I am saying here is this: is it really unreasonable for a premie, or anyone for that matter, to go off and have a quiet time on their own on a regular basis, if they feel that it keeps them sane?

What I do think is unreasonable is when a person's devotion to Maharaji makes it truly impossible to love and be genuinely intimate with another human being, and when a premie is fanatical to that degree it would probably be impossible for them to have a normal, functioning relationship with a non-premie or anyone else for that matter. Hence the apparent breakdown so many premie marriages. My friend wasn't fanatical, deeply loved her boyfriend, but just wanted that time out to herself every day to meditate.

But having said all that I do appreciate that every situation is unique and what happened in your marriage was truly tragic and it all sounds very heartbreaking. In my own experience, when I was in a relationship with a fanatical premie and I was less fanatical at the time, I do recall feelings of being marginalised, which was certainly unpleasant and could make genuinely intimate relationships with premies very difficult. I also believe that some people use their 'relationship' with Maharaji as a way of avoiding intimacy with real live human beings. I know I have done this myself.

I have just reread this and hope to god that I haven't said anything insensitive here. If you feel that I have, please tell me. I probably need to hear it!

With warmest wishes, Livia

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 23:35:38 (EST)
From: Steve Mueller
Email: None
To: livia
Subject: Re: Get This Bad? Oh Yeah? It Did. For Me.
Message:
Thanks Livia. I too always thought it very reasonable that I should be allowed some time to myself. I used to tell my wife: 'Because I love you I support anything you would want to do that you felt you needed to do to make you happy. Because I love you, I want for you whatever you want because I just want you to be happy.' Because of some very very bad abuse she suffered early in life she had serious personal security issues that seemed to preclude her from developing the kind of expansive outlook and attitude that would have enabled her to understand these things I told her. She does seem to be slowly, slowly growing. One thing I will never forgive M for is hogwashing see my post below) me to the point where I would turn a deaf ear to her pleas in a particular moment of emotional need. Like my 27-year old stepson said to me: Dad, that man is really really evil.
Thanks again, Livia.
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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 20:29:03 (EST)
From: janet
Email: None
To: livia
Subject: Re: Get This Bad? Oh Yeah? It Did. For Me.
Message:
a comment on your paragraphs:
'In fact, he went on to suggest to my friend that he thought the boyfriend should be looking at his own inability to relax in his own company while she went off to meditate, and should maybe be gently persuaded to examine what could be fear of abandonment originating from issues in his own early childhood. In fact my friend's boyfriend has now come to these conclusions himself and is now considering therapy to deal with those very issues.

What I am saying here is this: is it really unreasonable for a premie, or anyone for that matter, to go off and have a quiet time on their own on a regular basis, if they feel that it keeps them sane?'

When my son was born in 1978, I discovered that there was something about my withdrawing into meditation that terrified him unto grief, even if he was fully fed and sound asleep, from the time he was an infant until he was taken from me by my family on his third birthday.
As a premie for 5 years before his birth, I had become habituated and dependent on my time of being able to just close out the world and pull inwards and go away from all this, out here, and had always thought that, since my cats always liked it when i would withdraw into silence and prayer, that surely a baby would as well.

It was dismaying, frazzling, sorrowful and ultimately exhausting to find out that he invariably felt me 'leaving the world' when i would try to take the opportunity to go inside, and regardless of how i tried to set it up, he would let out a soul deep, penetrating wail of emotion , bawling for me to come back to him, and my hope of meditating went to hell but good, for years.
his father had no idea of this. he didnt understand what this was doing to me, as the baby didn't do anything like this with him, and he got all the meditation he wanted to do.
so you friend's counsel to the other guy about not being able to see his abandonment issues might work on a cogent adult, but what do you say to a baby who knows no language but feelings?

there is definitely something happening there, in terms of a meditator pulling away from the world and forbidding it all access. I know it from both sides of the test--its craved effectiveness when i wanted to shut the world out totally, and just go someplace inside me, where i knew nothing could touch me, and i know it by the way the baby always , unfailingly knew when i was trying to leave him and go away for some much needed rest, and wouldnt let me go.

I have half wickedly suggested to non premie partners that one way to thoroughly confound their premie partners, when the premie tells them that they absolutely cannot permit anything to take away from their time 'with maharaji' when they go to meditate, is for the non p to learn the techniques from the ex premie site, and then go right on into the meditation room with them and meditate with them, or , if their partner bars them from the room, to visibly sit out where their premie half can see them doing it, and to meditate in plain sight until the premie gives in and realizes it would be better to just let them come in and sit down with them when they do meditation.
It breaks the barrier supposedly formed by knowing the techniques, which the premie isnt supposed to ever reveal to anybody, hence the secrecy, and introduces some destabilization into the premie's whole weltenshaung about what they have, what non premies don't, and why they're supposed to do and be what they are.

not to mention, you get to stay with them and accompany them into their sanctum sanctorum, and in a sense, at least outwardly, you can then be on the same page at the same time with them, and the artificial wall maharaji wanted to be there, or the premie imagined there was, no longer exists between you.

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 15:24:34 (EST)
From: Moley
Email: moldy_warp@hotmail.com
To: All
Subject: Such - are you still reading this??
Message:
I hope you are OK after all these posts. I didn't know you were a musician. So am I. Email me and Nige your address and we'll send you our very first demo CD. I'd like you to hear it.

People are confused about what is happening to you. But we care. Can you come back and explain a bit more (or email me).

Lots and lots of love to you
Moley ********xxxxxx

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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 13:09:59 (EST)
From: anon
Email: None
To: Moley
Subject: Please read the epilogue: dedication [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 09:58:43 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Moley
Subject: What is happening to Such?
Message:
Do you know? Is it something you can tell?

I do hope that he is allright, even though I am miffed at him right now.

Warmly,
Tonette

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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 11:56:14 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: He lied like every other swami
Message:
Screw you, Such. What you did was disgusting. And now it's even further terrible that you're pretending that you weren't trying to trick us all. Here's how your post began:

To All My Dear Sisters and Brothers,

The time has come for one very silly old swami's mahasamadhi.

I stayed here for a purpose, for the sake of others -- who are all - just like you and me.

But now, I'm told, I need to start preparing myself for that big EXit -- which we all must make someday. hahaha

And I do wish to be prepared, and settle those things which still need to be completed.

The only reasonable interpretation of this is that you were announcing that you've just been informed that you're dying and better start getting your affairs in order. What the hell did you think people would think?

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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 12:04:47 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I'm really pissed
Message:
I just don't believe the stunt Such pulled. I also interpreted that this frequent poster, Such, was saying a fond farewell.

I want an apology. That was a mean, dirty rotten trick.

When the joke's on me, okay. When it's cruel, not fair and mocks me, well, that is just plain mean.

And in his post script, his p.s., at the end of his little thread, after Such saw all the saddness, real concern and truth of what people wrote to him what did he respond with? 'Thanks for the retirement party.' Hardeharharhar.

No, that was not funny at all. And from what I learned and realized from what Such did, his little joke is very damaging to the dialogue and honesty of this forum. To name one casuality, is the meaning of the word trust.

Sorry you got burned too Jim. You of all people, someone I have a real respect for.

Tonette

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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 23:20:33 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: I missed the hoopla on this one
Message:
i have no emotional investment because I never read that post. The next day I read the posts about the controversy first. Than I took a quick peak at the post.

Sorry that all you guys experienced that unwarranted grief.

Tonette, I don't have your email and I do want to discuss something with you. Please leave it again or ask Jim to fwd it to me or sumpthin'

take care,

deborah

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Date: Thurs, Jan 24, 2002 at 01:58:24 (EST)
From: anon
Email: None
To: Moley
Subject: see retirement party post [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 18:21:37 (EST)
From: Tim G
Email: timgitti@indigo.ie
To: Moley
Subject: Re: Moley Muso
Message:
Hi Moley

Any chance of myself listening to that CD as well. You two are dark horses/.
Love
Tim

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Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 20:05:22 (EST)
From: Moley
Email: moldy_warp@hotmail.com
To: Tim G
Subject: Tim - you wannit, you goddit;;.
Message:
We have just finished cutting our first demo EP CD. Can you email me your postal address and we'll send you one ASAP?

Lots of love to you
Moley xxx (and I truly hope to meet you in 3D soon!)

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