Ex-Premie Forum 7 Archive
From: Jan 28, 2002 To: Feb 01, 2002 Page: 5 of: 5


Barry -:- Moley's a hypocrite! -:- Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 22:21:27 (EST)
__ Dermot -:- No she isn't -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 18:38:46 (EST)
__ __ Barry -:- well written. Point taken. -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 19:35:45 (EST)
__ __ Jim -:- I agree more or less -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 18:58:20 (EST)
__ __ __ Barry -:- I agree with you Jim more or less -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 19:37:56 (EST)
__ __ __ Dermot -:- Ahem, 'tightfistedness' -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 19:26:16 (EST)
__ __ __ Dermot -:- Agreed [nt] -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 19:10:04 (EST)
__ Cynthia -:- Barry Must Apologize to Moley... -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 17:10:13 (EST)
__ Moley -:- FA - please DON'T delete this thread -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 10:34:38 (EST)
__ __ Deborah -:- Moley, it should be moved -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 16:24:33 (EST)
__ __ Jim -:- My real opinion -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 12:22:26 (EST)
__ __ __ Barry -:- Finally! Some one gets it! -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 19:44:32 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Moley -:- No- you posted on a forum for exes -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 20:12:37 (EST)
__ __ __ Nagging Mamma -:- Re: My real opinion -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 15:59:33 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- (Try that again) No, I disagree -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 17:22:07 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- No, I REALLY don -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 17:08:03 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- No, I REALLY don -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 17:08:02 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Moley -:- Re: My real opinion -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 16:29:56 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Barry -:- Sure Moley..... -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 19:47:01 (EST)
__ __ __ Moley -:- Jim - go read about decapitated heads -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 15:10:11 (EST)
__ Moley -:- No Barry - It was on Sat Chitchat! -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 10:06:27 (EST)
__ __ Barry -:- FUCK U moldy! Nice person my ass! -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 19:48:37 (EST)
__ __ __ Sulla -:- What a gentleman!!!!!! -:- Wed, Jan 30, 2002 at 12:36:56 (EST)
__ Loaf -:- FA CAN WE BLOCK THIS WANKER ??? -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 03:14:54 (EST)
__ __ Barry -:- Who in hell READS porn?NT -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 07:58:10 (EST)
__ __ __ Moley -:- That's the whole point Barry -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 11:18:09 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Barry -:- Whats this poor girl shit? -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 19:50:54 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Moley -:- Barry - get a life -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 20:08:38 (EST)
__ __ PatC -:- Nicely put, Loaf -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 04:45:08 (EST)
__ __ Livia -:- Re: FA CAN WE BLOCK THIS WANKER ??? -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 03:35:51 (EST)
__ E Bai Gum-Ladd -:- Re: Moley's a hypocrite! -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 02:20:58 (EST)
__ Jim -:- Yes, let's burn her! -:- Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 23:39:12 (EST)
__ __ Sulla -:- Not so fast! -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 10:43:13 (EST)
__ __ __ Moley -:- Yes - Bad porn promotes violence to women -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 11:06:27 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Same tired argument -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 12:15:08 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Many Thanks, Moley... -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 12:02:20 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Moley -:- 'Wanna see my girl friend's decapitated head' -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 15:08:53 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Magiclara -:- .Powerlessness -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 12:22:28 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Moley -:- Yes Magic - Everyone please read! -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 15:14:52 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ magiclara -:- nt -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 12:22:27 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Sulla -:- You are welcome! -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 11:40:49 (EST)
__ __ Moley -:- Jim - it was not your fault -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 10:20:11 (EST)
__ __ magiclara -:- Abuse -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 06:50:36 (EST)
__ __ __ Moley -:- Yes Magiclara! Rape is NOT funny at all -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 10:30:53 (EST)
__ __ __ __ magiclara -:- I disagree Moley they are both out of order. -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 12:02:56 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Bullshit, Magiclara -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 15:05:21 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- Rape and Humour -:- Wed, Jan 30, 2002 at 10:19:40 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Rape and Humour: to John -:- Wed, Jan 30, 2002 at 16:08:19 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Sulla -:- It's not a little exageration? -:- Wed, Jan 30, 2002 at 12:41:43 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Sulla -:- about the other kind of jokes... -:- Wed, Jan 30, 2002 at 16:33:00 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- It all depends on the focus of the joke -:- Wed, Jan 30, 2002 at 12:39:45 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ magiclara -:- Jim Please -:- Wed, Jan 30, 2002 at 13:22:40 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- I thought we were finished, you and I? -:- Wed, Jan 30, 2002 at 13:38:45 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ magiclara -:- Re: I thought we were finished, you and I? -:- Wed, Jan 30, 2002 at 14:18:13 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Oh now I feel bad! -:- Wed, Jan 30, 2002 at 14:25:39 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ magiclara -:- Sarcasm Jim? -:- Wed, Jan 30, 2002 at 14:44:56 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- I wish there was something else -:- Wed, Jan 30, 2002 at 15:43:09 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ magiclara -:- Ok Jim nt -:- Wed, Jan 30, 2002 at 16:00:07 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ magiclara -:- nt? -:- Wed, Jan 30, 2002 at 14:10:45 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Dermot -:- Re: Rape and Humour -:- Wed, Jan 30, 2002 at 11:00:13 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ magiclara -:- bullshit Jim -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 18:28:14 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Bullshit, okay but offensive?? I'm hurt [nt] -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 18:43:33 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ magiclara -:- Hurt? Yes me too. -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 19:22:34 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Re: Hurt? Yes me too. -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 19:30:40 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ magiclara -:- You have a good one too Jim nt -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 19:36:55 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ magiclara -:- -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 19:15:42 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Re: Bullshit, okay but offensive?? I'm hurt -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 19:03:06 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ magiclara -:- We should continue this elsewhere. -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 13:42:25 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Richard -:- Thank you for stating the obvious [nt] -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 13:48:52 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Yes, the thread should be deleted -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 15:01:18 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Moley'n'Nige -:- No It should NOT be deleted -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 15:59:04 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- I think it should be deleted but... -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 16:23:43 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Moley -:- Re: I think it should be deleted but... -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 16:37:48 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Sulla -:- Re: I agree with you -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 12:19:48 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Loaf -:- Jim's 'Joke' is Offensive.. -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 11:08:58 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- You're way off base, Loaf -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 14:59:31 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Moley -:- Yes you're right Jim -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 16:08:28 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Moley -:- Re: Jim's 'Joke' is Offensive.. -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 11:26:47 (EST)
__ __ __ Steve Mueller -:- Re: Abuse. F7 posts stay here forever -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 07:23:19 (EST)
__ __ Barry -:- thanks Jim, but..... -:- Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 23:56:25 (EST)
__ Barry -:- Anyone have an opinion on this?(nt) -:- Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 22:57:04 (EST)
__ __ JHB -:- Yes, I have an opinion -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 05:58:51 (EST)
__ __ __ Chris -:- Agree with JHB -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 12:17:43 (EST)
__ __ salsa -:- Asi es la vida hermano -:- Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 23:05:27 (EST)
__ __ __ Barry -:- Hey! Over to AG with that stuff! -:- Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 23:15:58 (EST)
__ Barry -:- Hey Moley? -:- Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 22:55:40 (EST)
__ __ Get lost Barry -:- Get lost Barry -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 14:39:47 (EST)

Zoloft -:- Deborah -:- Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 22:17:45 (EST)
__ Zoloft Taker -:- go get a meds check -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 05:36:29 (EST)
__ Jim -:- What? The Call of the Hindu Love God? [nt] -:- Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 22:42:16 (EST)
__ __ Barry -:- Hindu's in Edmonton, -:- Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 23:17:50 (EST)

Zoloft -:- Anyone being breathed now. -:- Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 22:02:55 (EST)
__ AJW -:- Do you mean on a life support machine? -:- Wed, Jan 30, 2002 at 16:33:20 (EST)
__ Jim -:- You can't say it? Here's why -:- Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 22:16:57 (EST)
__ __ Zoloft -:- Re: You can't say it? Here's why -:- Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 22:29:18 (EST)
__ __ __ PatC -:- What is this shit, Zoloft? -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 04:54:37 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Zoloft Taker -:- poor schmuck wantsa give satsang -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 05:47:01 (EST)
__ __ __ Jim -:- Sorry, I lost my rule book -:- Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 22:49:45 (EST)
__ __ __ __ AJW -:- LOL -:- Thurs, Jan 31, 2002 at 15:16:56 (EST)

Zoloft -:- Deborah -:- Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 21:50:38 (EST)
__ A fly on the wall -:- Your fixation with Deborah -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 01:23:06 (EST)
__ Deborah -:- Take this post over to SatChit forum -:- Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 22:20:32 (EST)

housemum -:- News story about increase in hackers -:- Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 21:08:00 (EST)
__ Marshall -:- Hi Housemum -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 14:26:46 (EST)

Zoloft -:- prior message -:- Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 19:47:24 (EST)
__ salsa -:- message -:- Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 22:58:03 (EST)
__ Deborah -:- What are you into? [nt] -:- Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 20:08:56 (EST)
__ __ Zoloft -:- Deborah -:- Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 20:36:20 (EST)
__ __ __ Sulla -:- Sorry to interupt...but... -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 11:55:00 (EST)
__ __ __ Deborah -:- I thought your stories were funny -:- Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 20:54:59 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Zoloft -:- Re: I thought your stories were funny -:- Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 21:35:50 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- Talking's good, but... -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 02:11:58 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Wrong -:- Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 21:58:25 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ silvia salsa -:- genius NT ()) -:- Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 23:02:40 (EST)

Joe -:- Magazine Name for M Interview -:- Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 17:29:26 (EST)
__ How about -:- Revisionism Today (nt) -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 15:35:24 (EST)
__ Maybe it's in -:- Conman Quarterly -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 14:32:00 (EST)
__ Narcissism Weekly -:- Cults Illustrated (nt) -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 13:15:56 (EST)
__ __ Or -:- Newsweak [nt] -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 13:27:33 (EST)
__ Lifestyles of the Rich and Dubious -:- Charlatan's Vanity Fair (nt) -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 13:11:01 (EST)
__ Sulla -:- The king lost his real point of view. -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 11:57:24 (EST)
__ Steve Mueller -:- Reader's Indigest (OR) Mad Magazine -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 00:23:02 (EST)
__ Pullaver -:- Hustler - wait 'til you see the fold-out! -:- Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 21:15:51 (EST)
__ __ Cynthia -:- Rolling Stoned [nt] -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 12:51:55 (EST)
__ __ __ Cynthia or... -:- Family Inner Circle [nt] -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 12:52:43 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Cynthia and -:- Bitter Homes and Gardens [nt] -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 12:53:31 (EST)
__ Jim -:- True Guru (for the discerning male) -:- Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 20:53:22 (EST)
__ bill -:- 'My mom was wrong' [nt] -:- Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 20:27:19 (EST)
__ Deborah -:- Donations Monthly -:- Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 19:30:39 (EST)
__ Suedoula -:- Who Said I was Divine? [nt] -:- Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 19:25:17 (EST)
__ Suedoula -:- And I am a Swine [nt] -:- Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 19:22:16 (EST)
__ __ Then there is -:- Fat Guru Has Come [nt] -:- Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 19:28:56 (EST)
__ Richard -:- And It Is All Mine! -:- Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 18:51:37 (EST)
__ __ Joe -:- Perfect -- LOL (nt) -:- Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 19:49:31 (EST)
__ PatD -:- Shaft [nt] -:- Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 18:26:19 (EST)
__ __ PatD -:- Re: Shaft -:- Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 19:06:27 (EST)
__ Carl -:- Podiatry Cultural Review /nt -:- Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 17:58:59 (EST)
__ How about -:- Cult Leader Today(nt) -:- Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 17:30:41 (EST)
__ __ Maybe -:- The Guru Home Journal? (nt) -:- Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 17:31:13 (EST)
__ __ __ I like -:- The American Journal of Foot Fetishes [nt] -:- Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 17:48:58 (EST)
__ __ __ __ JohnT -:- Solipsist World [nt] -:- Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 17:51:19 (EST)
__ __ __ __ How about -:- Breatharian Review? (nt) -:- Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 17:51:06 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Maybe -:- The Obsese Are People Too (nt) -:- Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 18:00:19 (EST)

Marshall -:- Warp Alert PAM!!! (anagram fun) -:- Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 16:53:07 (EST)
__ salsa -:- Funny ()) NT -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 07:33:04 (EST)

Sulla -:- Neurotheology on Reader's Digest -:- Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 16:19:32 (EST)

Sulla -:- Amazing sale and you are invited -:- Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 16:14:14 (EST)
__ AJW -:- They really are desperate. -:- Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 18:18:54 (EST)
__ Jim -:- How about the Michael Nouri tape? -:- Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 16:17:22 (EST)
__ __ Sulla -:- Re: How about the Michael Nouri tape? -:- Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 16:46:31 (EST)

AJW -:- Instructors fired? -:- Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 14:41:30 (EST)
__ Jean-Michel -:- Critical mass reached for EV/Rawat -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 04:12:38 (EST)
__ __ la-ex -:- Any toy sale is bad for M.. -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 11:46:13 (EST)
__ __ __ Joe -:- Maharaji dumping 'assets' -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 13:37:23 (EST)
__ __ __ Richard -:- Very interesting, la-ex -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 13:09:22 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Yes, must reading for all -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 13:15:31 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ la-ex -:- Hunker down, sell, reinvent..the new M -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 16:25:45 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- I suggest this thread **** Best of *** -:- Wed, Jan 30, 2002 at 06:22:07 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Deborah -:- Spot on LA-ex -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 22:30:43 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Bai Ji -:- La Ex, What a Lucid Distillation... -:- Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 19:51:05 (EST)


Date: Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 22:21:27 (EST)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Moley's a hypocrite!
Message:
One time in a good long time I drop a joke to loosen things up at F7, and Moley's all over it like a baby. Crieing for forum admin to do something about my waste of time posts. Saying I have a puerile brain etc...(see below posts).
Fine! so I go over to AG and there's Moley again posting below my pic post of a chick getting banged by 3 dudes, I posted in responce to Jim's gang rape coment post. telling me I'm a neandrathal etc...And thats a AG? What the fuck is Moley's problem? Whatever.
So I'm looking at tonights posts at F7, and theres Moley posting useless crap, goofing around with the moose heads and happy faces, Admitting in the post He/she had just HAD to try them out etc...
Your a Hypocrite phony MOLDY!!!
People here have known me for a while now, and know that when I post a gag. It's in the best intentions. you may think I'm a hack moron that knows nothing of the guru or the topics that are discussed here. well let me tell you something. I read most of the stuff and I have a pretty fair idea of whats going on here most of the time. Just because I don't participate in these seriouse discussions on a regular basis doesn't mean I don't have a clue.

I think your comments to me at AG were un called for, and I would like an apology. If your offended by a little porn pic at AG - fine! But I don't think in warrented the flame you left me. Especially when your farting around with the little happy faces at F7, and then turning around and getting all anal about me dropping 1 little gag on F7.

And don't ever call me dumb or childish again.
After all I have never ever been suckerd as bad as you have by another human being.

Eh X premie?

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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 18:38:46 (EST)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: No she isn't
Message:
a hypocrite. She's honest and straightforward actually AND has a great sense of humour.She's also a good friend to a lot of people here.

The thing is Barry a joke's a joke and no one really objects to jokes especially when they are in context and not downright offensive. Something that may not be offensive to you though, may very well be offensive to someone else. You just have to use a bit of common-sense and sensibility.

The thing is, after a while your 'jokes' (some of them fairly humourous ) always seem to be followed by some big argument with someone or other. You then usually start a thread like 'Moley is a hycoprite' .....I think a few months ago you had a big bust up with Francesca and started a thread about her.....and so on. The threads you start are usually telling us how misunderstood you've been and how we should all agree that whoever it is that's slagging you off is totally uptight blah blah. Frankly mate , you sometimes come across as a lippy, spoiled young teenager rather than a grown man.....then again, none of us are perfect per se......and I don't want to get too SERIOUS about it but you always seem to involve the forum in a debate about 'you'. I don't think people are that interested.

As for Jim's original post that triggerred everything re gang rape. Personally , though I agree with Jim that humour subject matter CAN be boundless......doesn't mean that just because you use an unusal subject matter that it IS funny.....it could well be just OFFENSIVE to a lot of people. Jim must surely know that if someone started posting stereotypical jokes about Jews, holocausts, big noses,tightfistedness...a small minority may find it funny but a lot of Jews (and gentiles )might find it offensive.Not that Jewish jokes are off bounds, just that some Jewish jokes may be offensive to a lot of people. I'd wage a LOT of money that Jim would find the words 'anti-semitic', 'racist' 'shameful' racing off his keyboard if Jews were targeted as oppossed to some deluded suicide bomber.

I got the point Jim was making about the girl suicide bomber. My own thoughts about that incident were more on the lines of tragedy as opposed to comedy (admittedley though sometimes I can be too serious/ other times too frivolous). I thought it more of a tragedy because a lot of Jews were killed by a crazy deluded bomber and because the the bomber herself had died.I don't think the prospect of a gang rape was the reason a young girl would be so passionate about blowing herself and others to little pieces.More motivated by something more complex.

Even if I understood Jims original post, the last thing I'd think of posting would be a pic of a gang bang.Then again I'm not you.

Cheers

Dermot

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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 19:35:45 (EST)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: well written. Point taken.
Message:
fine with me.
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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 18:58:20 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: I agree more or less
Message:
Read this post fast, Dermot, because it, like yours, is destined to die a fast and certain death.

I guess I thought the joke about the girl was funny largely because I think that the entire jihad idea of buying into Mohammed's luxury harem club (Club Dead?) by blowing up innocent people is the cruelest of jokes to begin with! Tragic? You bet. Comical? Well, I guess... yes, I guess you'd have to say so. Grotesquely funny, perhaps.

As for jews, please, have fun at my expense. Why not? But, the moment the joke perpetuates an untrue and deleterious myth, watch out. Is it true that jews are tightfisted? Not in my experience. But then maybe you've got your own. Big noses? Yep. Definitely. So it kind of depends, don't it?

As for Barry, yeah, I think, to be fair to him, he started posting at a time when the forum was a bit more irregular and dishevelled than it is now. There was a bit of a lack of focus at times, more of a vaccuum in which even a lowly non-premie could have some fun without real purpose here. Well, those times are gone. We've unloaded most of the real trouble-makers onto RE (who knows what they're doing there!) and Maharaji's curbed his dogs (and cats) so they're not here either. Just a number of regulars and a bunch of new people, more all the time.

So Barry gets backon line and thinks he can just jump in, everyone's gonna pat him on the back, buy him drinks and all. But that just isn't the tenor of the page, these days. And, you know, you can't push the river and all that. And Barry didn't see that. Too bad.

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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 19:37:56 (EST)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I agree with you Jim more or less
Message:
I didn't know how much things had evolved I guess,sorry.
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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 19:26:16 (EST)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Ahem, 'tightfistedness'
Message:
I was careful to use the word 'stereotypical' to make it plain it wasn't my personal opinion. Also...Scots share that stereotype with Jews (at least over here), Irish are 'Thick and/or drunken micks', all Black guys have huge dicks...etc etc etc

I'm sure you know all that anyway....

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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 19:10:04 (EST)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Agreed [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 17:10:13 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: Barry Must Apologize to Moley...
Message:
After much reflection on this thread (delete or not), I have to agree with Nigel and Moley that the thread title is an attack on Moley and an apology is in order.

A big apology. Moley is not a hypocrite. Moley is a good person.

This is my last post in this thread...phew!

Love to you Moley..
Cynth

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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 10:34:38 (EST)
From: Moley
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: FA - please DON'T delete this thread
Message:
if you were thinking of it. At least not for my sake. I am interested in peoples' responses.
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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 16:24:33 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Moley
Subject: Moley, it should be moved
Message:
over to the other forum. There is nothing here that has any permanent merit. These threads get archived. Do we want or need this to be kept for posterity?
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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 12:22:26 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Moley
Subject: My real opinion
Message:
Last night I was just jerking around (??) but here's what I really think:

1) This distinction between 'good' porn and 'bad', at least as long as it relates to consensual sex that isn't too far beyond the pale (and that's just a matter of personal taste) is arbitrary. Like the difference between 'good' music and 'bad'. If you think that you've got good taste in either your fantasy or real life, good for you. Enjoy it but, in the end, it's not math, it's a subjective call.

2) There's nothing wrong with joking about rape per se just like there's nothing necessarily wrong with joking about murder, disease, every kind of imaginable calamity and, those old stand-by's, God and the devil. Every one of these subject fields could yield extremely harmful and downright mean jokes in the right (read 'wrong') context. Jokes don't hurt people; people hurt people. :)

3) Much as I love and respect Moley, I disagree all the way with her theory that porn -- or is it only bad porn? -- leads to violence against women, anymore than a whole bunch of other things in our society -- movies, music, yes, dress styles and fashion, maybe even little Johnny Action figures. Certainly alcohol, let's not forget that. And then how about all the pressures of life, the stuff men buckle under before becoming cut-off, smouldering, angry psychos?

4) All the same, I DON'T think we should be arguing about this here as, ever since the more restrictive post 9/11 no protracted OT fly zone was imposed, it's been better for the real purposes of the forum.

3) My joke about the Palestinian woman was, in my respectful opinion, fair in the circumstances. I only regret that I hadn't thought 'outside the box', so to speak, a little easier because my later joke -- about her really wanting a kitchen renovation was much funnier. It was dark and cynical; so was she. And yes, I do think that even people who've been subjected to rape and all sorts of ugly-related sex crimes, can live in a world where these kinds of jokes get said. I sure wasn't directing the joke to someone I knew had gone through the actual horror of rape. In that respect, whoever suggested that a fair test of the joke's ...what? political correctness? would be to send it to her friend, the rape victim, misses the point. I didn't do that. Indeed, it would have been cruel to the max if I had and she shouldn't either.

5) Barry shouldn't have gotten into any of this here. He's my friend and all but, frankly, I've never understood, beyond the fact that it's a bit of a lark, why he'd want to hang here to begin with. Sure, all my friends know my history and all that but, well, who'd have thought, huh? Barry, I do wonder though ....why?

Anyway, didn't Moley bring this up here? It could and should have stayed AG but I think she, in her anger one moment, raised the subject here as well.

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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 19:44:32 (EST)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Finally! Some one gets it!
Message:
Jims right. It's not about porn, or no porn etc..It's about people, and Moley attacked me first with her harsh coments about my purile brains and all that trash. I didn't post that pic for her! I posted it for jim. Sure folks are gonna see it and have an opinion, but you just can't run into a 7 11 and start ripping up all the porn and calling the tellers wack offs. She should apolygise to me.
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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 20:12:37 (EST)
From: Moley
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: No- you posted on a forum for exes
Message:
A PUBLIC forum. If it was for Jim you could have emailed it to him. HOW MANY WOMEN on this thread or elsewhere Barry have seen your point of view?
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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 15:59:33 (EST)
From: Nagging Mamma
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: My real opinion
Message:
Unless and until you have been raped, you are not in the position to define its humor, and lack thereof. Inlight of the fact that we have ex-premies who were raped as children, that we all love, including you, which F7 happens to be their place as well as ours, it would seem a little sensitivity on your part might go a long way.

I'll say it again, this discussion is counterproductive to what F7 accomplishes. All the world is not a court room, and your point of view may be debated on other sites that best serve these kinds of topics. Didn't your mother teach you anything? Now, go to your room and take a time out.

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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 17:22:07 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Nagging Mamma
Subject: (Try that again) No, I disagree
Message:
Unless and until you have been raped, you are not in the position to define its humor, and lack thereof.

I don't buy that for a second. Rape is terrible -- as are a lot f things. Sometimes there's room for humour in and around the edges of these things. My joke about the female suicide bomber was just fine in the circumstances. Why? Because it's focus was on the crazy agenda the usual suicide bombers, the males, have had. In fact, the ugliness of this woman's actions actually dwarf the other issues that otherwise center around the subject of rape. I'd expect anyone hearing or reading that joke to think of that and the militant's pernicious agenda instead of focussing on how bad rape itself is. Yes, even people who'd been raped.

Inlight of the fact that we have ex-premies who were raped as children, that we all love, including you, which F7 happens to be their place as well as ours, it would seem a little sensitivity on your part might go a long way.

Don't get precious on me here. I made my joke on AG, not here. Moley was pissed off at Barry for his reaction on AG and chose to comment on it here, for some reason. Hell, here we all are, you me and the next guy, all perpetuating it. The thread should go and we should just all drop it. I don't agree with many people here about the harm caused by porn (not to mention the bigger issues of 'patriarchal domination' and such). Moley's all hot to talk about it here but I don't think we should. It's like politics. It IS politics. We're too polarized on these and other OT issues to do anything but argue, argue, argue them. That's fun but, like Richard says, it's ultimately distracting.

I'll say it again, this discussion is counterproductive to what F7 accomplishes. All the world is not a court room, and your point of view may be debated on other sites that best serve these kinds of topics. Didn't your mother teach you anything? Now, go to your room and take a time out.

Now, look! How hypocritical can you get? You get to trot out your two cents worth but to me it's a 'court room' or something? Go to YOUR room, mummy. Now! Go on, get in there!

And Gerry, I DO think you should dump his thing. Save me from having to keep posting. :)

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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 17:08:03 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Nagging Mamma
Subject: No, I REALLY don
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 17:08:02 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Nagging Mamma
Subject: No, I REALLY don
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 16:29:56 (EST)
From: Moley
Email: None
To: Nagging Mamma
Subject: Re: My real opinion
Message:
this discussion is counterproductive to what F7 accomplishes

No it ain't. How do you know what F7 accomplishes? I am not unsympathetic to what you say, but you are not the person who is being slagged-off here.

I am.

And I have been subjected to physical violence by premies. So I know what I am talking about, and would like the opportunity to read exes' repsonses to this thread, if you don't mind.

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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 19:47:01 (EST)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Moley
Subject: Sure Moley.....
Message:
i didn't attack you first. i didn't call you shit first. I didn't even fucking know you egsisted till this.
Oh poor Moley. Bullshit!
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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 15:10:11 (EST)
From: Moley
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Jim - go read about decapitated heads
Message:
Proper reply coming soon.
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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 10:06:27 (EST)
From: Moley
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: No Barry - It was on Sat Chitchat!
Message:
Fine! so I go over to AG and there's Moley again posting below my pic post of a chick getting banged by 3 dudes, I posted in responce to Jim's gang rape coment post. telling me I'm a neandrathal etc...And thats a AG? What the fuck is Moley's problem? Whatever.

Anything goes is unmoderated. Sat Chit chat is only, and I quote, 'mostly unmoderated'. Can't even get simple facts right Barry, my Right Hand Man. As I said, puerile excuse for a brain.

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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 19:48:37 (EST)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Moley
Subject: FUCK U moldy! Nice person my ass!
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Wed, Jan 30, 2002 at 12:36:56 (EST)
From: Sulla
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: What a gentleman!!!!!!
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 03:14:54 (EST)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: FA CAN WE BLOCK THIS WANKER ???
Message:
you are evidently inferior to ex premies in soo many ways... whilst you pride yourself on never having been an ex - I would rather have been a premie and left than have ended up like you.

DONT INSULT PEOPLE WHO ARE BY FAR YOUR SUPERIORS - and why dont you go and make some real friends of your own ?

Could you explain exactly whatis your connection with this forum, except as an attention seeker ?

I know people like your humour.. but please, this is not the place for making an Issue out of YOURSELF, this place is for EX-Premies.. if you have never been a Premie (and I somehow doubt you have even the maturity for THAT) - then you aint an ex... so why not go haunt 'weight watchers in Honk Kong' or 'Alcoholics anon in Frankfurt' some other group of people who you can feel superior to... and with whom you would have as much in common as you have with us.

When you take up Forum space starting new threads you just break the focus of this place. You are a Troll and your 'good intentions' are selfish and audience seeking.

Mine are too, to some extent.. If I have posted something here I run to see what people say about it.. but at least I dont flatter myself that I have some 'role'... My guess (horrific as it seems) is that you see yourself as a free thinker.. light relief for the serious and miserable ex premies... you probably think you understand what people here have been through... you probably think this song is about you .. dont you ? Dont you ?

Give it a rest Barry. Once a week is enough... One a month is More than Enough. Spend the rest of your week posting hilarious thoughts and slurs on characterful people elsewhere.

Thats my suggestion. Be compassionate... if you need help, then tell us... if not.. God Speed.

Loaf

And no... I dont read porn.

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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 07:58:10 (EST)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: Who in hell READS porn?NT
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 11:18:09 (EST)
From: Moley
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: That's the whole point Barry
Message:
Of course you can read porn. Lady Chatterley's Lover is the most obvious example. There's a world of difference between erotic communication between real characters and a sleazy pic of a poor girl who's been paid a lot of money to become an object, with no feelings, no personalty - just a piece of meat.

Similarly, I just watched The Postman Always Rings Twice (Jessica Lange/ Jack Nicholson version). Explicit sex, but between REAL characters having a mind/heart/body relationship.

Porn that splits human feelings from sex degrades and objectifies women AND men contributes more to mankind's misery than to it's happiness.

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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 19:50:54 (EST)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Moley
Subject: Whats this poor girl shit?
Message:
Maybe she loves balling a different guy every night on film. How the fuck do you know anything about her. Your only instilling your own shit into what you think shes feeling. Your a joke.
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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 20:08:38 (EST)
From: Moley
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: Barry - get a life
Message:
For Gawd's sake. If you can't engage in rational discussion. Don't bother to come here at all. It was perfectly legit of me to complain on Sat Chit about your post. I never mentioned anything about porn here at all. Why bother with all this ... if you have nothing to say other than abusive remarks. Unfortunately you only reinforce the stereotype of porn addict=ignoramous.
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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 04:45:08 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: Nicely put, Loaf
Message:
Like you, I find Barry's stuff impertinent, but I don't feel that I personally can do anything about it other than to ignore him just as I ignore other impertinent and irrelevant posters such as Stonor who also has no reason to post here and has no practical connection to M or K.

The other ''never beens'' here all have significant others who are still trapped in the cult. These two have nothing of any relevance to add to the forum and should stick to Anything Goes as Sir Dave does not mind what nonsense is posted there and it it is not a forum that must be paid for.

I cannot welcome them sincerely to the Sat Chit-chat Forum because I know that Chuck is paying for it and enough nonsense gets posted there already. There's nothing wrong with humor or porn but I know where to find that on the net myself thanks and stuff that is far more to my taste.

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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 03:35:51 (EST)
From: Livia
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: Re: FA CAN WE BLOCK THIS WANKER ???
Message:
Well said Loaf. Perhaps we should just ignore all these saddos and they'll go away.

With love as always, Livia

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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 02:20:58 (EST)
From: E Bai Gum-Ladd
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: Re: Moley's a hypocrite!
Message:
If tha nors nowt about yer fancy guru shite, tha not missed nuthin' lad. An that young Dairv left you a message orver on Sat Chit, bar the wair.
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Date: Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 23:39:12 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: Yes, let's burn her!
Message:
They burn hypocrites, don't they? Back in the middle ages or something?

Barry, here's what happened. On AG I made a joke about the new FEMALE suicide bomber, wondering aloud if, instead of the usual Mohammed's Army Ration of 72 virgins awaiting martyrs in paradise, she'd be looking for something a little different, say a gang rape perhaps. You, then, asked me what I meant and when I explained myself you posted a pic of a girl having group sex. I thought it was pretty funny myself but then I'm not a woman. (Beside, according to zoloft there, there is no 'our' so that might be something to think about too.)

Anyway, we all know that all guys like porn and all women either do or don't. (Again, as zoloft says, there's no tomorrow or yesterday, we're all just being breathed, so what the hell, eh? Know what I mean?) Moley, apparently, is of the view that porn is bad because it minimizes sex, makes it less than the possible love act that people like you are accustomed to. She forgets, I guess, her own past lives as men. Because men, in fact, do love porn, so there's no lack of love there. Indeed, it's surprising how much love men really have to give. At least that's what I'm told.

Now I can see it was all my fault anyway. As a male, I was probably thrusting my phallic perspective on a sacred religious rite of ... um, passage, I guess: the Islamic Militant's Crossing Into Paradise. On second thought, I now believe that all female Islamic militant suicide bombers aren't really interested in more sex so much as they are bigger, nicer, more modern kitchens. This poor girl in Jeruslem the other day was, in the strictest sense of the word, merely shopping.

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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 10:43:13 (EST)
From: Sulla
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Not so fast!
Message:
I think you are smart, but all this scramble, for me, is of a very bad taste. I don't think all men enjoy porn, and I don't think all has to do with gender. And one thing is to watch porn once in a while, in a casual way, out of curiosity maybe, and other to be a vicious watcher. For me the priority is to be a whole human being, after that you can be whatever you are: woman, man or gay. I agree that porn denigrates people, and I respect adults choice to be denigrate or not, but since, pornography don't have limits, being as aberrant as it could be including also children in it, that cannot chose or defend themselves, and intruding everyone's privacy without any invitation or respect, as in my e-mail and my children e-mails even when I blocked them, I choose to be an opponent of it.
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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 11:06:27 (EST)
From: Moley
Email: None
To: Sulla
Subject: Yes - Bad porn promotes violence to women
Message:
Thank you Sulla. I agree totally with what you say. I think the kind of porn pic that Barry posted on Sat Chitchat objectifies the female body... makes it into a play thing of men. To be used (or abused) as the man feels. And unfortunately, men feel a lot of stuff about women OTHER than sexual desire....

Here's some UK stats:

1 in 4 women will experience domestic violence at some point in their lives.
A woman calls the police every 60 seconds because of domestic violence.
At least 2 women a week are killed as a result of domestic violence,.
Almost 50% of female murders are the result of domestic violence.

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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 12:15:08 (EST)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Moley
Subject: Same tired argument
Message:
Read my reply on Sat Chit.
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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 12:02:20 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Moley
Subject: Many Thanks, Moley...
Message:
Dear Moley,

I got myself into a bucket of trouble a long while back trying to make the point you've made so well here.

When it comes to porn, I hate it all. Why? Because the viewer never knows for sure if the women and girls are being forced to ''perform.'' It's abuse. I recently was surfing the net and clicked something that brought me to a porn site with photos of underaged girls--obviously my mistake, and I don't remember how I got there. They were obviously not age 18 who looked young, they were young teens. My first thought? Who do I report this to?

So, I thank you for your courage to stand up for all women, girls, and yes, children, who are objectified by pornography.

I have met met, and spent time with many grown women who were forced into pornography as little girls. The damage is incalculable and unimaginable. It's horrific.

For me, there is no argument about this, that's why I've stayed out of the thread. But I did want to thank you for your courage to stand up to Barry who has crossed a line here.

What next? Snuff photos?

Cynthia, Disgusted to the core.

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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 15:08:53 (EST)
From: Moley
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: 'Wanna see my girl friend's decapitated head'
Message:
Yes - that was an email, from some Japanese cretin, me and my fourteen year old daughter got on our PC when we first got connected to the internet.

Cynthia you are completely right. I completely disagree with those (men) who deny porn's association with violence to women.

If women could earn decent wages do you think, Jim and Dave, that they would go and do porn photos???

It's about power gentlemen, and who is always on top??????

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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 12:22:28 (EST)
From: Magiclara
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: .Powerlessness
Message:
Cynthia
I agree with what you and Moley have said about the abuse and objectification of women in pornography. I also agree that the viewer doesn't know if the women have been forced to perform. I would go further and say that within patriarchy women may believe that they are exercising free choice. That choice however may well be made from a position of powerlessless. Women may think that they have freely chosen to partake in porn, without realising that they are in fact pawns in their own abuse. It is the same principle that makes a premie believe, that they have chosen to be in the situation they are in. They also have internalised a mindset which has been foisted upon them, that contributes to their own abuse,
Bests Magiclara
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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 15:14:52 (EST)
From: Moley
Email: None
To: Magiclara
Subject: Yes Magic - Everyone please read!
Message:
I would go further and say that within patriarchy women may believe that they are exercising free choice. That choice however may well be made from a position of powerlessless.

This is the absolute nub of the thing! BRILLIANT

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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 12:22:27 (EST)
From: magiclara
Email: None
To: cynthia
Subject: nt
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 11:40:49 (EST)
From: Sulla
Email: None
To: Moley
Subject: You are welcome!
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 10:20:11 (EST)
From: Moley
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Jim - it was not your fault
Message:
So far as I see it, you made a relevant comment about what might await the poor woman who was 'brainwashed' into thinking killing herself was serving her God. It was Barry, IMO, who demeaned that poor woman's memory.

And BTW, all men do NOT like porn. And who said I don't? But there's good porn and bad porn. And good and bad places to put it. ;)

And isn't Sat Chitchat a different ballgame (pun intended) from Anything Goes???

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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 06:50:36 (EST)
From: magiclara
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Abuse
Message:
Joking about gang rape or rape in any form is not funny. Rape is abuse and an appalling crime which should not be trivialised.
If people find it necessary to look at and discuss porn, it would be appropriate to do it elsewhere, not on this forum.
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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 10:30:53 (EST)
From: Moley
Email: None
To: magiclara
Subject: Yes Magiclara! Rape is NOT funny at all
Message:
But on Sat Chit Jim was remarking that that poor woman might expect to be gang raped in heaven - due to the fact that the fundamentalist guys are told that 17 virgins await them when they martyr themselves for Allah. A fair point, I thought.

What concerned me was Barry's response - well it's there if anyone reading this cares to look.

And anyone cares to come back here and tell me how that poor woman's family would feel if they saw it.

Not to mention a woman reading Sat Chit who HAS been raped.

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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 12:02:56 (EST)
From: magiclara
Email: None
To: Moley
Subject: I disagree Moley they are both out of order.
Message:
Moley I fail to see how it isn't as much Jim's fault as Barry's. Jim says,

On AG I made a joke about the new FEMALE suicide bomber, wondering aloud if, instead of the usual Mohammed's Army Ration of 72 virgins awaiting martyrs in paradise, she'd be looking for something a little different, say a gang rape perhaps. You, then, asked me what I meant and when I explained myself you posted a pic of a girl having group sex. I thought it was pretty funny myself but then I'm not a woman.

That does not come across to me as anything like what you said. Moley said,

Jim was remarking that that poor woman might expect to be gang raped in heaven - due to the fact that the fundamentalist guys are told that 17 virgins await them when they martyr themselves for Allah. A fair point, I thought.

I (magiclara) say that,to even mention the word rape in the same sentence as 'I made a joke...' is not on. I agree with you that Barry's pic was awful. Jim thought it was funny. I don't see how you can say it is not his fault. Both of them are out of order in my view.
Mags

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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 15:05:21 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: magiclara
Subject: Bullshit, Magiclara
Message:
I (magiclara) say that,to even mention the word rape in the same sentence as 'I made a joke...' is not on. I agree with you that Barry's pic was awful. Jim thought it was funny. I don't see how you can say it is not his fault. Both of them are out of order in my view.

Rape is one of the many unpleasant realities of life. Why should it be the one taboo for humour? Or do you have more? A whole list, perhaps? Let's hear it.

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Date: Wed, Jan 30, 2002 at 10:19:40 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Rape and Humour
Message:
My emotional reaction to this debate is that rape is not a suitable subject for humour and to attempt to make is so will offend a lot of people. I was just wondering if it's like Jews telling Jewish jokes or Blacks referring to themselves as niggers, where it's only acceptable for the victim of oppression to joke about it. So maybe only people who've been raped have the right to make jokes about it. I wonder, do, for example, women in rape support groups engage in black humour about their ordeal?

John

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Date: Wed, Jan 30, 2002 at 16:08:19 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Rape and Humour: to John
Message:
Hi John,

You said:

I wonder, do, for example, women in rape support groups engage in black humour about their ordeal?

In my experience? No rape jokes. I've been in support groups and facilitated support groups. We have to find the ability to be able to laugh again in our lives after the ordeal of rape, not only for release but to reclaim our bodies, and recover from psychic and emotional damage done, plus to learn to feel safe in the world again (if it's possible).

We laugh,(again, this is my personal experience) and that usually happens when someone reports a cold and indifferent response a rape victim received from telling someone about their experience--but ususally after much serious discussion.

We laugh about (actually at) people who are ignorant and clueless about what rape does to a woman or a man.

We also laugh about the myths that have been perpetuated in our culture for so long, which are believed by many people, men and women. We laugh (with sad undertones) about what our perpetrators say in defense of their crimes. We don't make jokes about rape itself.

Jim's joke? I got the attempt, the slant, or point of the remark, but I didn't consider it a joke. I didn't laugh, either.

I don't hold it against Jim, I accept that he has his own belief system and it's his right--plus he didn't post it here.

I'm am sorry Moley got singled out for defending women. I avoided Marianne's recent thread about the cult patriarchy because it's a hot-button issue, and I tend to come across as a femi-nazi. Been there and done that here already, thank you.

I wanted to respond because information educates with the result being myth-breaking. Isn't myth-breaking sort of our purpose here? Myths about maharaji?

Oh well, I should leave this alone...
Cynthia

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Date: Wed, Jan 30, 2002 at 12:41:43 (EST)
From: Sulla
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: It's not a little exageration?
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Wed, Jan 30, 2002 at 16:33:00 (EST)
From: Sulla
Email: None
To: Sulla
Subject: about the other kind of jokes...
Message:
A little exaggeration about the other kind of jokes and who may have the right to make them, even if I don't think this forum may be the right place either, if there is something offensive about it. I don't think a raped person would like to joke about it, don't you think? And what about the Indians from north and South America? And what about the Christian martyrs? This world is full of sad stories, some new, some very old, let's move on and try to make this place a better one for everybody. There are different kind of jokes but not all of them suitable for all kind of places, situations or people. My husband and my brother love all of them and some times what makes them laugh, makes me mad or simply I can't find the point of the joke, some I find funny, others gross or disgusting, some they don't dare to tell me. I don't think anybody wanted to offend anybody else in this forum intentionally.
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Date: Wed, Jan 30, 2002 at 12:39:45 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: It all depends on the focus of the joke
Message:
My rape joke was really a joke about people murdering others because of strange religious beliefs in bizarre worldly rewards, in particular massive harems of virgins. You know, maybe we shouldn't be making jokes about massive harems of virgins either. I'm sure there's NOTHING FUNNY (think politically correct, ideologically stern, face of feminism staring you down) about the large scale sexual exploitation of young women either, when you really start thinking about it.

On the other hand, it's a tragic farce of the greatest moment right now that young men really are biting that hook. It's ridiculous, which means that it lends itself to ridicule and ridicule's one face of humour. So this young girl's brothers are killing themselves and countless others for a ridiculous and, yes, offensive, politically incorrect prize; maybe she is too.

Moley, who appears to be a staunch opponent of pornography, 'patriarchial oppression' and the like got it easily. Laurie got it easily. I think people who don't are just pretending not to, quite frankly. It's kind of like 'He dared to make a joke about that! Well, let's see if we can embarrass him with some good old-fahsioned self-righteous finger-wagging'.

Not you, of coruse, John. I'm talking about the others.

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Date: Wed, Jan 30, 2002 at 13:22:40 (EST)
From: magiclara
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Jim Please
Message:
I was not going to post again but you will not let it go will you. Moley and Laurie got it easily that makes it ok does it? How dare you suggest because I don't get your joke I am pretending not to. I may have misunderstood your meaning. It doesn't matter. The fact that you use the word gang rape in a joke causes me persoanally and other's here great pain. You do not know what the people who are reading this stuff have been through. You are entitled to your opinions, and I to mine they will never be reconciled. I accept that. Can't you merely say that you disagree with me and that you are sorry (if you are) that this joke has caused me and others pain and distress. I am not trying to embarass you by what you call good old fashioned self rightous finger wagging. I am trying to make you see the pain you are causing me. I am gratified that the men's voices of JHB and Dermot agree that rape is not a suitable subject for jokes.In answer to their questions. No we do not laugh about it in our self help groups. I was raped some of my friends were raped and yes one of them is a man. It was not a subject for humour with the people who I worked with who had been raped or gang raped. Please Jim do not interegate me and make me feel like the accused. You have really upset me and brought up things I did not want to visit again. I post this with trepidation and hope.
Best wishes Magiclara
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Date: Wed, Jan 30, 2002 at 13:38:45 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: magiclara
Subject: I thought we were finished, you and I?
Message:
Magiclara,

You already signed off with me, remember? You're putting me in a funny pickle. If I even express myself further now on the subject you cry that I'm throwing oil on fire and hurting you even further. By not acceding to any of my attempts to generalize the discussion, for example by discussing humour more generally (You sure didn't want to do that, did you?) or to somehow place the joke in context, you've backed yourself into a very tight corner and now it seems you want me to join you there. Sorry, Magiclara, I won't.

Rape to me, bad as it is, is a whole lot less serious than the kind of murder and mayhem Ms. 'Outraged' Palestinian Martyr caused. This, then, was one instance where perhaps that joke WAS okay. Let's put it this way, who the hell cares if that woman WAS gang-raped in Paradise? Well, I guess if you think that sexuality's sacred or something, you might then think that's gross sacrilege. But I don't think anything's sacred myself, not even the nicest, sweetest parts of life.

Anyway, I've asked Gerry to delete the thread. It's got no real business on the forum. But as long as people keep responding to me here, and I feel like it, I'll keep talking too.

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Date: Wed, Jan 30, 2002 at 14:18:13 (EST)
From: magiclara
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: I thought we were finished, you and I?
Message:
Well Ok you have proved to me that you are the insensitive, opiniated, bully that I thought you were. Funny one of your acolytes told me different. Ah well. No I don't see myself in a tight corner and I wouldn't want you to join me anywhere thank you. No I didn't want to generalise the discussion with you. You have a way of making people feel like the accused. Yes I signed off with you, fair comment. Your post caused me pain foolish me for opening up to you and hoping you would care. I suppose I will join the other folks who don't post here because of you. I just don't see why you have to endlessly try to prove you are right. I am not saying I am right. I am saying that I see no humour in rape. If you think there is then that is your perogative but your comic timing is crap. Can't you accept someone's pain, say you disagree with them but accept that you have hurt them? No I don't think sexuality is sacred, but again you trivialise rape by saying it is a lot less serious than the murder caused by the religious nut. It isn't less serious it is an appalling crime they are both appalling crimes for you to say one is worse than the other is outrageous. I see no future in this I have told you what I think of you. You obviously have a low opinion of me. We will never agree. I suppose I will have to sit back and let you prove how right you are.
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Date: Wed, Jan 30, 2002 at 14:25:39 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: magiclara
Subject: Oh now I feel bad!
Message:
Well Ok you have proved to me that you are the insensitive, opiniated, bully that I thought you were. Funny one of your acolytes told me different. Ah well. No I don't see myself in a tight corner and I wouldn't want you to join me anywhere thank you. No I didn't want to generalise the discussion with you. You have a way of making people feel like the accused. Yes I signed off with you, fair comment. Your post caused me pain foolish me for opening up to you and hoping you would care. I suppose I will join the other folks who don't post here because of you. I just don't see why you have to endlessly try to prove you are right. I am not saying I am right. I am saying that I see no humour in rape. If you think there is then that is your perogative but your comic timing is crap. Can't you accept someone's pain, say you disagree with them but accept that you have hurt them? No I don't think sexuality is sacred, but again you trivialise rape by saying it is a lot less serious than the murder caused by the religious nut. It isn't less serious it is an appalling crime they are both appalling crimes for you to say one is worse than the other is outrageous. I see no future in this I have told you what I think of you. You obviously have a low opinion of me. We will never agree. I suppose I will have to sit back and let you prove how right you are.


---

Sorry, Magiclara, I feel so terrible now. You were right and I was wrong.

There, is that better?

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Date: Wed, Jan 30, 2002 at 14:44:56 (EST)
From: magiclara
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Sarcasm Jim?
Message:
No I don't feel better.
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Date: Wed, Jan 30, 2002 at 15:43:09 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: magiclara
Subject: I wish there was something else
Message:
Yes, Magiclara, sarcasm. Not because I have nothing else to say, not because I even want to curtail the discussion, but because I feel like you're so wound up over this, there's little use in my trying to talk about it further.

Honestly, I see all sorts of things in your last two posts I'd like to respond to but I'm worried that, not only would you disagree -- although we might find some common ground, somewhere, I'd like to think -- but you'd also hold the very act of responding against me. Even to the extent that I'm causing you pain by doing so.

My intention is certainly not to cause you or anyone else here pain. However, I don't think any topics should be taboo from discussion and sometimes black humour works, maybe not for you but certainly for others. Anyway, it just isn't your call to make. Even if you've been a victim and I haven't. Yes, even then.

And really that's the issue, isn't it? We agree rape's horrible; I just think it can be talked about, yes sometimes even with humour. I think everything can.

Anyway, rape wasn't the focus of the joke anyway. Deadly religious fanaticism was.

Finally, I hope you didn't give my one, lonely acolyte too hard a time. They're hard to come by in some circles.

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Date: Wed, Jan 30, 2002 at 16:00:07 (EST)
From: magiclara
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Ok Jim nt
Message:
t
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Date: Wed, Jan 30, 2002 at 14:10:45 (EST)
From: magiclara
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: nt?
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Wed, Jan 30, 2002 at 11:00:13 (EST)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Re: Rape and Humour
Message:
Good points John.

Without wishing to muddy the waters too much, let's not forget that 'male rape', in some societies, is an ever increasing form of rape, inside and outside of prisons.For those victims, support groups are few and far between.

Of course that's not to downgrade rape of women or imply rape of women isn't the usual form of rape. Just that we usually think of women when we use the word 'rape'.

I agree though, it's hard to see how a joke about rape could be constructed so that it was both funny and non-offensive.Victims in a support group, maybe just maybe, may find something to laugh about together. More as a form of therapeutic release or something. Hard to say.

Cheers

Dermot

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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 18:28:14 (EST)
From: magiclara
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: bullshit Jim
Message:
I completely disagree that rape is an appropriate subject for humour.Yes there are also other things that I find inappropriate subjects for humour. There is no point in listing them. We obviously have an extremely different perspective on life. You think my view is bullshit, and I think yours is bullshit and also offensive.
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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 18:43:33 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: magiclara
Subject: Bullshit, okay but offensive?? I'm hurt [nt]
Message:
Magiclara,

I do think a list would be most helpful as it might show you something. Something about humour, something about slippery slopes, something about yourself.

Could I ask you, though, do you think death, or even murder, is a suitable subject for humour? How about deceit, confusion and general misfortune? Desperation? Money?

How about God? Yes? No?

What is humour anyway?

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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 19:22:34 (EST)
From: magiclara
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Hurt? Yes me too.
Message:
Jim
I see no point in making lists. I think it is condescending of you to say that doing so would show me something about myself. What do you think I need to be shown. I understand what you are saying. No doubt any subject you could think of would upset someone. I cannot see rape as funny. The experience of rape and the aftermath of it are obviously traumatic and affect a persons whole life. Do you honestly see any point in continuing this conversation?
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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 19:30:40 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: magiclara
Subject: Re: Hurt? Yes me too.
Message:
No, you're right. No point talking. Have a good one.
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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 19:36:55 (EST)
From: magiclara
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: You have a good one too Jim nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 19:15:42 (EST)
From: magiclara
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject:
Message:
Jim
I don't want to get involved in making or commenting on lists. I find it very condesending of you to suggest that a list might show me something about myself. What exactly do you think I need to see about myself?
I do understand what you are saying. No doubt every subject you can possibly think of will offend someone. Some things, rape being one of them are not only ofensive but deeply disturbing. To experience rape and the aftermath of it is extremely traumatic. I cannot see it as funny.
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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 19:03:06 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Bullshit, okay but offensive?? I'm hurt
Message:
Text discovered in above post to Magiclara!
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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 13:42:25 (EST)
From: magiclara
Email: None
To: magiclara
Subject: We should continue this elsewhere.
Message:
Barry should never have brought it over here. I agree with Vicki et al in an above thread. If we are to continue this we should do it elsewhere.
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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 13:48:52 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: magiclara
Subject: Thank you for stating the obvious [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 15:01:18 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Yes, the thread should be deleted
Message:
I really think this thread should go and that Barry should think twice about 'trying to lighten things up a bit' here. It's not really his party so why should he care about the music?
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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 15:59:04 (EST)
From: Moley'n'Nige
Email: happy@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Jim
Subject: No It should NOT be deleted
Message:
The thread was an ad hominem attack on Moley. It should be allowed to run its course so people can judge the fairness of that attack, and validity of points raised. If there was a time where deletion was appropriate, it was the moment Barry's thread-post appeared and before others joined in. It is way too late now. You will annoy more people than you will satsify. Nobody has to read the thread.

And you have no idea, Jim, whether wavering ex-prems might not find this whole discussion fascinating - and even relatable to cult life, by way of contrast or comparison. Just the loosening of tongues, or something.

Also - porn, and similar social phenomena, are not so unrelated to our cult involvement. It is, at root, about the exploitation of vulnerable people supposedly exercising freewill. (Sound familiar..?) You may not agree, but if some of us exes think it, here would be a good place to say it, no?

By the very number of responses, surely it shows how this issue is certainly important to a good few of us. And, in that sense, to say the least, on-topic.

If F7 will only discuss strictly-inside-the-Rawat-cult issues (the best stuff tending to come from very recent PAMs who have barely started to process anything) it will, not only get boring, but will miss the broader dimension of our post-cult realisations and reassessments of 'normal' human life. Surely as worth talking about as Darwinian (indisputable })) truths.

Being an ex-premie is like being thrown into the ocean (of Bondage to Maya) without a fucking paddle and discovering it is a cold reality that needs dealing with as best we can. (But at least a real reality. Is there any other kind?)

Let's deal with it. Let's talk about it...

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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 16:23:43 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Moley'n'Nige
Subject: I think it should be deleted but...
Message:
I do undestand your points, Nigel and Moley.

I feel rather sick to my stomach. Everyone who knows me here knows I am a survivor of rape and incest. I just posted above that I think the thread should be deleted, but since it is an attack on Moley, I will defer to her choice about it.

By the way, a good percentage of pedophiles and sex offenders are known to use pornography as stimulants: sometimes before, during, and after their crimes, depending upon the offender. I know that's off my point, (about the thread, that is), but folks need to know that information.

I'm sorry you got singled out Moley, I don't think you're a hypocrite at all.:)

Cynthia

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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 16:37:48 (EST)
From: Moley
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Re: I think it should be deleted but...
Message:
Thank you Cynthia xxx.

I'm sorry if this thread content upsets you. It was never my intention to bring my argument with Barry here, but now it has appeared, warts an' all, I just think it is better for all readers if it runs its course.

See me and Nige's post somewhere here. I don't think this whole abuse stuff is irrelevant to our cult involvement.

Love to you xxx

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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 12:19:48 (EST)
From: Sulla
Email: None
To: magiclara
Subject: Re: I agree with you
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 11:08:58 (EST)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: Moley
Subject: Jim's 'Joke' is Offensive..
Message:
A fair point ??? Equating gang rape with 17 virgins waiting for a guy ???

I find Jims joke offensive because it implies that Rape is an attractive proposition - which is on a par with implying that Palestinian children would like to kill themselves so they can go and play with paedophiles... offensive and insensitive.

i have never been raped, but two friends of mine have.. and for one I was there for her to help pick up the pieces.

I will forward Jim's joke to her and advise you of her reply.

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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 14:59:31 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: You're way off base, Loaf
Message:
Do you think that killing innocent people by the truck load in order to secure a harem is an 'attractive proposition'? No, of course not. But that's the carrot for these poor deluded souls. So my joke was obviously juxtaposing the ridiculousness of that motivation with what I wondered aloud would be the female counterpart. Now, we both know that there really is no female counterpart to that (perhaps, being ensured a really supportive, strong and understanding man to invest 'male parental investment' energy in her offspring) so I was just making fun of their whole thinking anyway.

Can't you see that?

Anyway, if you do send it to your friends, let me know what they say. I'm sure they'll be happy to hear from you like this.

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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 16:08:28 (EST)
From: Moley
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Yes you're right Jim
Message:
Your joke was completely spot on. (At the risk of repeating myself) Not directed at that poor woman, but at Islam fundamentalist shite.

All too reminiscent of Rawat fundamentalist shite.

We;re all prickly on this subject but on the same side too }) - got a thing about mooses at the mo :)

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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 11:26:47 (EST)
From: Moley
Email: moldy_warp@hotmail.com
To: Loaf
Subject: Re: Jim's 'Joke' is Offensive..
Message:
Sorry Loafie. I didn't mean to upset you. I took Jim's comment to be a joke at the expense of Islam and the way it treats women.

It was Barry's pic for me that was a joke at the expense of that poor woman.

Fancy an email/phone chat?

Love Moles ****xxxx

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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 07:23:19 (EST)
From: Steve Mueller
Email: mistyqm@mn.mediaone.net
To: magiclara
Subject: Re: Abuse. F7 posts stay here forever
Message:
Thanks, Magiclara, I wholeheartedly agree. We now know that all kinds of people visit F7, including non-premies of pwks.

Needlessly indulging in foul, irrelevant, or nutsos talk can only serve to make their task of trying to understand and deal with the evil of M's cult that their loved ones have gotten themselves into all that much harder.

I, for one, would like to see everyone who posts on F7 exercise at least some restraint and a little sense of responsibility to not only today's visitors but also tomorrow's (which very well could include, at some point, even national press). It will be harder for them to take our case against M seriously if they see the blatantly immature kind of drivel that F7 has seen below. Thanks in advance everyone (for whom this applies) for anything you can do to 'clean it up' for our guests.

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Date: Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 23:56:25 (EST)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: thanks Jim, but.....
Message:
She still should take at least half her pill. yeesh! One little porn pic and all hell breaks loose! Now shes posting little poems about me being some sort of wack-off king over a AG.

What ever happened to the plain old dirty girls of yesturday eh?

I guess thier all in the porn industry now! Duhhhhhh

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Date: Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 22:57:04 (EST)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: Anyone have an opinion on this?(nt)
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 05:58:51 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: Yes, I have an opinion
Message:
Since I read your early posts, I've just ignored you. But now you're becoming disruptive, and should leave. You're discussing AG posts, so go and discuss them on AG.

My opinion is, quite simply, you should go away.

John the polite.

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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 12:17:43 (EST)
From: Chris
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Agree with JHB
Message:
To Barry, I did laugh at your windshield wiper joke below, however I have since learned of your 'other' jokes which are not so funny, and agree you should keep those off Forum 7 and go to AG. There is a difference.

Another please and thank you.

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Date: Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 23:05:27 (EST)
From: salsa
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: Asi es la vida hermano
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 23:15:58 (EST)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: salsa
Subject: Hey! Over to AG with that stuff!
Message:
yuk yuk yuk!
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Date: Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 22:55:40 (EST)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: Hey Moley?
Message:
Why don't you crap on Zoloft for posting ot's too?
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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 14:39:47 (EST)
From: Get lost Barry
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: Get lost Barry
Message:
I agree with the people who say Get lost Barry.
As far as Zoloft goes, he is a total idiot, however, two wrongs do not make a right.
I don't care if you were ever a premie or not but stay on topic or stay at AG.
Anything else is rude.
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Date: Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 22:17:45 (EST)
From: Zoloft
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Deborah
Message:
You are are made thi moment. So am i.
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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 05:36:29 (EST)
From: Zoloft Taker
Email: None
To: Zoloft
Subject: go get a meds check
Message:
you're stuttering babe. stammering. your picture has lost its horizontal hold. I take Zoloft and have been for over a year, and my doctor never had me up to the braindead level that you display. you better go check yourself into the nearest mental facility and tell the intake desk you need a meds adjustment. or a complete workup and rediagnosis.
something's real wrong with your perception of reality. you're actually barking like a dog and seeing double. Here's a clue from one who lives it: it ain't supposed to work like that.
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Date: Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 22:42:16 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Zoloft
Subject: What? The Call of the Hindu Love God? [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 23:17:50 (EST)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Hindu's in Edmonton,
Message:
Seem to be the only people I get along with here.
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Date: Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 22:02:55 (EST)
From: Zoloft
Email: rogerbarre@hotmail.com
To: All
Subject: Anyone being breathed now.
Message:
If yo understand what has been said, write back with an Email.
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Date: Wed, Jan 30, 2002 at 16:33:20 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Zoloft
Subject: Do you mean on a life support machine?
Message:
zoloft,

as far as I can figure out, the only people 'being breathed' are those on life support machines. I imagine going on the internet and answering your question is the last thing from their minds.

And are you infering anyone who doesn't send you an email doesn't undertand the question?

Where are you at pal? What's your interest here?

Anth sat chit in hand.

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Date: Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 22:16:57 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Zoloft
Subject: You can't say it? Here's why
Message:
The reason you can't spell it out, Zoloft, is because it's ridiculous. A hindu rope trick. Spiritual foo foo. Black magic fantasy. Superstitious mumbo jumbo.

Yeah, we're being breathed alright. Just like every other part of our bodies is working without our conscious attention. So WHAT?

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Date: Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 22:29:18 (EST)
From: Zoloft
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: You can't say it? Here's why
Message:
There is no 'Our' Only you Jim. You hide amongst others where you can continue your river. Doesn't matter. Your coming home. And you know how good that feels !
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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 04:54:37 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Zoloft
Subject: What is this shit, Zoloft?
Message:
I hesitated to praise your funny stories but eventually felt that I had to introduce myself to you yesterday but now I regret it, You sound either permanently drunk or nuts. Which is it?

Whatever it is wake up and smell the coffee.

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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 05:47:01 (EST)
From: Zoloft Taker
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: poor schmuck wantsa give satsang
Message:
thass all. but since it's forbidden, he hassta come here and let it regurgitate, because his own true nature just can't obey the ironclad orders of his leader to shut the fuck up and let the Master show him how it's done.
So no matter what he does, he's screwed.
poor schmuck. He doesn't even realize how many layers down he's been hijacked from who he was to begin with.
wow.
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Date: Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 22:49:45 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Zoloft
Subject: Sorry, I lost my rule book
Message:
Thanks, zoloft. I lost my ruel book somewhere and couldn't remember if there was an 'our' or not. But you're right, no 'our' only 'you'. I'll have to remember that. Maybe put a little sticky thing on my fridge or something. You -- yes, our -- no.

But home, sorry, but, well ... it's not that I don't know. I do. But I've been hiding amongst the others so long, continuing my river, if you know what I mean. Truth is, I forgot. Where is my home, oh Zoloft? Please, is it at the Back of the North Wind, by chance? Over the Rainbow? Xanadu? These are all places Laurie and I have been thinking of trying out. Especially if we can get the Home discount. But, fact is, I just don't know where it is anymore. I'm lost.

Any suggestions?

Before you say anything, what about this? How about if I look in my heart or something? I won't do anything until you say so but, well, what do you think? Heart? Hm?

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Date: Thurs, Jan 31, 2002 at 15:16:56 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: LOL
Message:
Turn round three times, saying, 'There's no place like home.'

Anth the after dinner chuckle.

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Date: Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 21:50:38 (EST)
From: Zoloft
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Deborah
Message:
Deborah,
I'm listening to a radio station in Bogota, Colombia from my laptop. It plays only local hits. People are so amazing. So much passion.
Sounds rising from throats, chanting our rising breath.
Ever listened to songs from Radio Beijing ? Bagdad ? Uzbekistan ? Stockholm ? We all sing the same songs. Hymns to something that just rises.
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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 01:23:06 (EST)
From: A fly on the wall
Email: None
To: Zoloft
Subject: Your fixation with Deborah
Message:
Reminds me of a few trolls that have been here before.

I suppose you are a troll who believes in reincarnation.

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Date: Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 22:20:32 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Zoloft
Subject: Take this post over to SatChit forum
Message:
Every once in a while we slip in something off-topic but this post is way too off topic (OT). I am leaving her soon and may not have time to respond but perhaps tomorrow.

Take it easy. I read your post below as well as Jim's. Jim is right, 'apologist' has a specific meaning and is no different than any other word. It conveys a meaning. It was not meant to be insulting, it was meant to convey the ambiguity of your ex-premie status. It's psychobabble to insinuate that facts are mere concepts. That's like saying apples are merely oranges.

It is fair to say that you haven't sorted out and determined how you feel. But to invalidate it as being an unnecessary label is a cop-out.

Cheers,

deborah who will be glad to respond to your OT posts over there

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Date: Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 21:08:00 (EST)
From: housemum
Email: None
To: All
Subject: News story about increase in hackers
Message:
Did anyone else catch the story on CNN tonight about the increase in internet sites being targeted by hackers? They reported that previously it was assumed that the attacks were random, but now it's clear that hundreds of attacks are deliberately aimed at taking down specific sites. The gist was that the FBI and other security agencies are investigating the links between the attacks and the sites they are attacking. Interesting for EPO...yes?
Loving you all,
Housemum, who's going to take Jim's advice and get out more.
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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 14:26:46 (EST)
From: Marshall
Email: None
To: housemum
Subject: Hi Housemum
Message:
Nope didn't catch that one, but sounds interesting.
My friend had his computer hacked recently, someone got in and destroyed his programs and vandalized his hard drive, apparently an act of random nastiness.
BTW I really enjoyed your stories about living in the ashram, etc.
You are cool in my book!
bye your friend Marshall
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Date: Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 19:47:24 (EST)
From: Zoloft
Email: None
To: All
Subject: prior message
Message:
Put your Email. I'm not into gossip, cults, and people against anything.
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Date: Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 22:58:03 (EST)
From: salsa
Email: None
To: Zoloft
Subject: message
Message:
Have u taken too many Zolofts?

Hpw did you get here?
Who are you?
Are you a 'toe kisser'?

I think that what you are into is your bussiness, wouldn't you say? Are you bored? Are you sincere?

What brings you to our ex-premies forum?

I am a ex-premie and I detest maharaji.())

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Date: Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 20:08:56 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Zoloft
Subject: What are you into? [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 20:36:20 (EST)
From: Zoloft
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: Deborah
Message:
I'm into what makes me right now. It's making me answer you. You read one of my posts and answered: 'Ha ha ha ha. This made me laugh'. That made me laugh.
Can we do this by email ? I can't stand the noise in the forum. If not, OK.
I'm sitting under the slanted roof of an old Victorian house at the top of a hill. All the heat rises here so it's toasty. I have a laptop in front of me, sitting a desk. The only other furniture is a bed. I used to work in a bank but I've taken 6 months off. To be.
I raised 3 kids, travelled the world, buried 2 wives, and here I am typing to Deborah.
What are you into ?
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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 11:55:00 (EST)
From: Sulla
Email: None
To: Zoloft
Subject: Sorry to interupt...but...
Message:
Did you kill them????
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Date: Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 20:54:59 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Zoloft
Subject: I thought your stories were funny
Message:
Although you have sounded like an apologists in a couple of posts. Best not to put lemon on open wounds. Did you just recently discover that the M&K trip was a cult? Do you think it is? It's hard to tell by by someone saying 'I'm not into cults'

Really Zoloft, do we think we're here because 'We ARE'

And yes, I know the tone of the forum is intense. After you sink into it, the things that starteled you no longer exist. It's a new and foreign medium to most of us at first. This was the first forum I ever attended. When I came here there was all kinds of shit happening including a bust-up of Forum V, Jim getting banned, spammers, you-name-it, it happened. THan after a couple of months, the first CAC attack. But it's a worthwhile endeavor. Especially now that I know it's dynamic nature.

What am I into?

I go to University of Victoria. I enjoy taking courses. I don't like tests, and I don't test well. But I learn well and I am a very enthusiastic student. I study the classics, film, and have taken courses on Astronomy which is one of my first loves. Maybe I'll be able to get a BSc one day. Lots of Calculus and Physics required, though. :(

I like to dine. One of my favorite activities of all time. Especially 3-hour dinners. I enjoy hiking and walking. I walk a lot in Victoria because it's easy to get around and great exercise.

You are welcome to leave your email address. I'd be happy to talk off forum.

Be well and enjoy your hiatus. Sorry to hear that you've buried two wives. Ouch! Are you children born from both women?

cheers,

deborah

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Date: Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 21:35:50 (EST)
From: Zoloft
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: Re: I thought your stories were funny
Message:
Hi Deborah. Whenever I get stressed out, I retire to a kitchen and toss up a stir fry. Bok choy, shrimp, red pepper, tofu and rice.
If you're going to talk with me, please don't use pre-fab words like 'apologist'. It's just me and you on this page. No 'We'. I belong to what makes me and it has no name. Maharaj ji points that way and let's leave it at that. All the rest was over my head.
I grew up watching russian, swedish, chinese, japanese, polish, french, german, english, italian movies. My father ran a movie house. They are my forte. My world view comes from the minds of the best thinkers of their generations.
I remember jogging along the seashore over foot-thick moss under the tall conifers south of Colwood, just south of Victoria. I lived in a room at the back of a hotel in Colwwood. Lumber trucks would stop by and I'd play pool with the drivers in the bar. Over 3 months of that winter, I threw about 250 satsangs of Maharaj Ji in the fireplace. I wasn't living anything he was talking about and felt he was lying to me. But life flows on and took me with it.
I know, I'm on th border. I live in this breath only. It fills me and leaves no room for yesterday or tomorrow. But it makes me talk with you. So I do.
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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 02:11:58 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Zoloft
Subject: Talking's good, but...
Message:
... what to talk about is the question. If you read the Forum intro, you will see that this forum has a topic. Your anecdotes are good, and it's interesting to hear your're 'on the border', but this is a place to really find out what you think about Maharaji and Knowledge. You won't find that out unless you start talking about these subjects.

You could start by telling us what you think of the 14 objections to Maharaji on EPO.

John.

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Date: Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 21:58:25 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Zoloft
Subject: Wrong
Message:
First, you're wrong about it just being you and Deb on this page. Just like you look into other threads and comment, that's what you'll get too.

Second, what's wrong with the word 'apologist'? Do you know what it means? How is it any more 'pre-fab' than every other word out of your mouth? (Or maybe you don't know what 'pre-fab' means?) but who are you to tell Deborah what words she can or can't use?

And how can you say something like you live in this breath only (whatever the hell that means) and have no room for yesterday or tomorrow immediately after reminscing about all those yesterdays, your dad's theatre, the movies, running in Colwood?

Anyway, besides me being prickly about your prickliness, what in the world were you doing in Collwood of all places? Hiding from your shrink? :)

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Date: Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 23:02:40 (EST)
From: silvia salsa
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: genius NT ())
Message:
juajuajuahahhahaha())
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Date: Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 17:29:26 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Magazine Name for M Interview
Message:
Can anyone come up with the title of a magazine that would do an interview of Maharaji, with a straight face that is?

I think Jim suggested:

Cult Leader Investment Journal

I was thinking of:

Cult Pilot Weekly

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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 15:35:24 (EST)
From: How about
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Revisionism Today (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 14:32:00 (EST)
From: Maybe it's in
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Conman Quarterly
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 13:15:56 (EST)
From: Narcissism Weekly
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Cults Illustrated (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 13:27:33 (EST)
From: Or
Email: None
To: Narcissism Weekly
Subject: Newsweak [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 13:11:01 (EST)
From: Lifestyles of the Rich and Dubious
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Charlatan's Vanity Fair (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 11:57:24 (EST)
From: Sulla
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: The king lost his real point of view.
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 00:23:02 (EST)
From: Steve Mueller
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Reader's Indigest (OR) Mad Magazine
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 21:15:51 (EST)
From: Pullaver
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Hustler - wait 'til you see the fold-out!
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 12:51:55 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Pullaver
Subject: Rolling Stoned [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 12:52:43 (EST)
From: Cynthia or...
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Family Inner Circle [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 12:53:31 (EST)
From: Cynthia and
Email: None
To: Cynthia or...
Subject: Bitter Homes and Gardens [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 20:53:22 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: True Guru (for the discerning male)
Message:
Gritty stories of steamy darshan sessions where the guru (always buff and never short, fat and ugly) sees that special little someone and just has to have her ....
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Date: Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 20:27:19 (EST)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: 'My mom was wrong' [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 19:30:39 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Donations Monthly
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 19:25:17 (EST)
From: Suedoula
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Who Said I was Divine? [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 19:22:16 (EST)
From: Suedoula
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: And I am a Swine [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 19:28:56 (EST)
From: Then there is
Email: None
To: Suedoula
Subject: Fat Guru Has Come [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 18:51:37 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: And It Is All Mine!
Message:
And It Is All Mine

Revisionist Review

Darshan Aficionado

Blonde Fancier

Better Hoax and Guruscams

Vanity Fear

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Date: Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 19:49:31 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Perfect -- LOL (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 18:26:19 (EST)
From: PatD
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Shaft [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 19:06:27 (EST)
From: PatD
Email: None
To: PatD
Subject: Re: Shaft
Message:
Seriously though,these reports that the Bollixshwar may be about to reinvent himself are worrying. On second thoughts I'm not so sure that he couldn't get away with it, given suitable investment in spin doctors.

One thing he could do would be to acknowledge his roots in the Rhadasoami tradition.

I'd never heard of it until EPO,so you can bet that 99% of a potential audience haven't either. I'm still quite clueless about where they fit into Indian Society & Politics,but acceptance of the Dalits,equality of the sexes,self-help......all these things play well.

Easy to portray your opponents as bigoted retards. Who cares about them anyway? Old deadbeats who anyone who remembers, regarded at the time as delusionals for strewing flowers all over the place. Now here's this amusing guy, looking regular, putting the record straight about himself.

He wouldn't make much money out of it ,but then he doesn't need to.
All he needs to do is retire with a good reputation.

Maybe I'm being too imaginative.

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Date: Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 17:58:59 (EST)
From: Carl
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Podiatry Cultural Review /nt
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 17:30:41 (EST)
From: How about
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Cult Leader Today(nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 17:31:13 (EST)
From: Maybe
Email: None
To: How about
Subject: The Guru Home Journal? (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 17:48:58 (EST)
From: I like
Email: None
To: Maybe
Subject: The American Journal of Foot Fetishes [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 17:51:19 (EST)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: I like
Subject: Solipsist World [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 17:51:06 (EST)
From: How about
Email: None
To: I like
Subject: Breatharian Review? (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 18:00:19 (EST)
From: Maybe
Email: None
To: How about
Subject: The Obsese Are People Too (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 16:53:07 (EST)
From: Marshall
Email: snorlaxe@msn.com
To: All
Subject: Warp Alert PAM!!! (anagram fun)
Message:
Hey Everyone,
I just looked up prempalrawat on an anagram program at wordsmith.org.
Coincidently there are some that are pretty apropo(sp?)
Here's some of the best.

A Trampler Paw
Warm Rat Apple
Rat Pal Warp me
El Rat Warp PAM
Rat Law Per PAM
Warm Pale Trap
Lame Trap Wrap
Twerp Alarm Pa
Warp Alert PAM
Warp PAM Later

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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 07:33:04 (EST)
From: salsa
Email: None
To: Marshall
Subject: Funny ()) NT
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 16:19:32 (EST)
From: Sulla
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Neurotheology on Reader's Digest
Message:
Read it in English in the December 2001 magazine or in Spanish in the February 2002 edition.
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Date: Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 16:14:14 (EST)
From: Sulla
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Amazing sale and you are invited
Message:
Subj: Visions sale in miami
Date: 1/19/2002 3:33:01 PM Eastern Standard Time

Visions is having an Amazing Sale and you are invited to attend.

It will be on Saturday and Sunday February 2 and 3.
Time: 12:00pm - 5:00pm.

There will be a great variety of videos [english and spanish] for $4.00,
audios for $2.00, many publications for $1.00 and others at reduced prices,
a selection of music CD's for $6.00 and music casettes for $4.00, plus
hundreds of photos [framed and unframed], and gift items.

This kind of sale will not happen again.

We will have a complete lunch for $5 and live music will be performed.

Address:
Miami Beach Women's Club, 2401 Pinetree Drive, Miami Beach, Florida.

Directions
I-95 to East 195
195 turns into 41stST Miami Beach
go 1/2 to 3/4 mile to Pinetree Drive
turn right on Pinetree and go to 24thSt
turn left on 24thSt

Parking is on the street or parking lot in back of the women's club.

Thank you
Miami Communications Team

Subj: Updated information about Visions Sale
Date: 1/26/2002 6:36:24 PM Eastern Standard Time

Visions is having an Amazing Sale and you are invited to attend.

It will be on Saturday and Sunday February 2 and 3 at the Miami Beach
Woman's club.

Time: 12:00pm - 5:00pm. At 8:00pm there will be a Satellite Broadcast.

We will have a complete lunch for $5 and live music will be performed.

Sodas will be sold at the place.

Children will eat for free and there will be a place where they can play and
people will take care of them.

Miami Communications Team

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Date: Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 18:18:54 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Sulla
Subject: They really are desperate.
Message:
The cult really is desperate for money at the moment.

Wonder what they'll do after they've sold all the old tapes off?

Who'd have thought that the Lord of the Universe would turn out to be a materialistic breadhead?

Anth, can I have my money back please?

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Date: Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 16:17:22 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Sulla
Subject: How about the Michael Nouri tape?
Message:
Any chance they'll have a copy of that Nouri / Maharaji tape? The one that circulated with an instructor and freaked out a few people now posting here? Anyone got any idea how to get a hold of this thing?
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Date: Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 16:46:31 (EST)
From: Sulla
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: How about the Michael Nouri tape?
Message:
I'll ask a premie friend, who is more out than in but didn't tell anybody, if she can get some information about it or if there is any list of the sales.
Jim, thanks, you really help me a lot in my way out. Sometimes you scared me but I liked to read your posts anyway. I admire your sharp intelligence, your defense of values, and how you put everything so clear to understand.
Just in case, I have spell check but not grammar check.
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Date: Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 14:41:30 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Instructors fired?
Message:
Hi,

Has anyone heard about the latest situation with the full-time instructors? Apparently they've all been fired as the latest in a line of desperate cost-cutting measures.

The cult is in deperate financial trouble at the moment and could well be going into meltdown. Latest fund raising ideas dropped upon the ever decreasing pool of the faithful include, paying a fortune for emails from the cult (see below), sending in any foreign change, getting local organisers to hit the local premies for more donations.

Less and less premies are being hit for more and more money. Somthing's got to give soon. The smart money is on the sale of one of the Captain's major assets, such as Amaroo.

Anth F7 Finacial Correspondent (It's not about money you know.)

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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 04:12:38 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Critical mass reached for EV/Rawat
Message:
I have a new theory.

Given Rawat's immense needs and pharaonic lifestyle, the whole show can only go on if there is a certain mass of love and gratefulness available. As soon as, for some reason, that resource diminishes beyond a certain volume, there is trouble in heaven, and that goes exponentially.

My take is that ALL activities, including Rawat's private airline will fold quickly. Maybe he'll be able to rely on some of his wealthy associates for a while, but I guess they'll be disgusted and leave also when he'll not be able to play his LOTU show in front of them anymore.

Wait and see .....

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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 11:46:13 (EST)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Any toy sale is bad for M..
Message:
I would think that ANY toy sale by the corpulent one will be bad for any number of reasons....

1)Amaroo-I know LOTS of premies who have contributed hefty sums to Amaroo. Both loans, and outright gifts/donations.
They did that because Amaroo represented the possible manifestation of the age old premie dream-having a piece of land where they could hang with m...a permanent festival site, away from the 'world'.
Just them and their lord, in a natural setting.
Also, m has said for years that there really is no place on earth that really is special enough for knowledge to be given..hotels, convention centers just don't make it.
So, a lot of premies felt that they were not only doing something for themselves in suppporting amaroo, but also contributing to some sort of 'meditation retreat', where knowledge could be given in the best place available.
Supposedly, m said that the knowledge building was the first one ever built just for knowledge.

In one very small community I know (about 15 show up for one video per week), they raised $10,000 for Amaroo on one of those special 'international Amaroo days' where people worldwide watched videos and coughed up some dough.
To see Amaroo go down the tubes will be a very vivid, real life example of not only a business failure in which their faith got them burned, but also a realization that m has lost his 'star appeal'.
This will lead to most premies taking one good size step backward...and we all know that when you take ANY type of step backward with m, it opens up all kinds of possibilities, none of which bode well for m and the premies.
It will also open up the door to some of these slightly wavering premies to question a bit more, to want to know the REAL story behind things...when they find things on EPO that they never dreamed possible, it will cause another step backward....better to play it safe than sorry....donations go down, propagation goes down....suddenly you realize that maybe you are just fine without doing the 'knowledge thing', and that you also feel a sense of relief in NOT talking about maharaji to people you know....more drips...
Also, as premies see or hear things on EPO that they never knew before...things that were either hidden or suppressed, they will be very curious...many exes have said that when they first came across the EPO iste, it was like looking at 'premie pornography'....

2)The plane-probably a good one to get rid of, but the blow to m's ego would probably be too great, unless he could say that he wasn't flying anymore due to health reasons or something like that....he would be taking first class commercial, or 'jet-leasing' from now on...I just can't imagine him doing that-he'd probably quit before he did that.
He can justify keeping it for security reasons as well.
I imagine he'll go down with the ship before he sells the plane.

3)The 7 million dollar yacht.
Probably the best one to sell, unless he's still spreading knowledge via the yacht in those little island nations around the globe.
This would be my bet, although many premies don't know he even has this yacht, so it's sale, when known, would also raise eyebrows and possibly cause some drips.

4)Helicopter-also, probably a good one to get rid of, although his neighbors in the low rent district in Malibu would now have to worry about brush fires, because he might take away the water tanks he put in, in exchange for helicopter landing rights...

5)Sell smaller toys, cut back on expenses, curb the kids and rj's allowances...sell more videos at higher prices...charge higher entrance fees to programs (he said last year that knowledge could become an 'exclusive club')...sell new smart cards each year....

Any way you slice it, it's not looking good for the captain.

Any major sale will be a drip for the remaining few....and one drip always seems to lead to another.....

I think that high level EV personnel have been making contingency plans for this for the last few years....I heard over 2 years ago that there were meetings with certain premies that indicated that it was going to be hard to spread knowledge, because the whole thing would be lumped into the 'cult category' along with other groups....m was going to pare everything down, and it would never be the same again....one mid level honcho told me to find a church to go to, as there would not be anything left in the near future....

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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 13:37:23 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: Maharaji dumping 'assets'
Message:
I think the 'sale' of Amaroo isn't to raise funds, just to cut back on costs because they don't have the money to make the payments. So, it's likely to go, although I wonder if Donner is right, and the entity owning Amaroo will go into bankruptcy, sticking the creditors with what they can get. I would imagine that wouldn't be popular with those who made loans.

But there is a precdent with the Boeing 707, which ordinary premies donated millions toward in the late 70s and early 80s. Plus, the sweat of hundreds of slave premie workers also went into that plane, only to be dumped a couple of years later for something Maharaji wanted that was supposedly better. So, the feelings of the premies in any of these particular endeavors does not seem to be much of concern to Maharaji, except I'm sure he would want to keep on good terms with the rich premies, if possible.

Regarding the plane, that would also just be a matter of cutting off the expenses, since I understand that plane is also heavily financed.

The yacht is probably another story and so is the helicopter. Those things that are 'personal' to M are probably not part of the fire sale. And if they are sold, the proceeds go to M, not to the organizations, I would imagine. Otherwise, it would be M, himself, donating personal funds to his 'mission,' someting I doubt has ever happened, being that M's priorities are himself and his wealth first, and propagation way, way down on the priority list.

Interesting what you said about it being 'hard' to spread knowledge because people see EV/Maharaji as a 'cult.' Gee, wonder why? This is kind of in line with what Maharaji said in the Atlanta Training video, being really pissed that 'the Mahatmas' and the 'wild' premies said all kinds of weird things about him, and he is still in a 'hole' propagation-wise as a result. Poor Maharaji, however, never had anything to do with those problems, of course.

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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 13:09:22 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: Very interesting, la-ex
Message:
Good to see you here la-ex. Excellent fiscal analysis.

Your last paragraph contains some interesting items from the premie grapevine which, as we know, is far better at spreading info than any other organization ever was.

I heard over 2 years ago that there were meetings with certain premies that indicated that it was going to be hard to spread knowledge, because the whole thing would be lumped into the 'cult category' along with other groups....

m was going to pare everything down, and it would never be the same again....

one mid level honcho told me to find a church to go to, as there would not be anything left in the near future....

These seem to be indeed coming to pass. Elaborate if you have more to share.

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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 13:15:31 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Yes, must reading for all
Message:
When you spell it out like that, LAX, ti really does look like endgame, doesn't it? Particularly with respect to how premies have extended themselves financially and emotionally to fulfill their dream of a Never Never Land. Frankly, I thought Kissimee was kind of cool. Close to Disneyworld and everything. 'Gators? Hm ....
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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 16:25:45 (EST)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Hunker down, sell, reinvent..the new M
Message:
My feeling, based on reports from a community contact person, a mid level honcho in the US (probably an ex-honcho now), and a few low end church ladies (not industrial strength, and actually getting a bit peeved with how things are going now) is that there a number of changes, and definitely a streamlining going on now....a few observations....

1)First of all, M never admits defeat, or that he has done anything wrong.
So, these changes are all good, of course....in fact, they are 'more in line' with his 'vision', and will actually bring you, the premie, into even more intimate contact with your lord.....it just keeps getting better and better, doesn't it? Who would have thunk it?

2)Things that are jettisoned were only 'getting in the way'...it will be just you and your lord and 'that experience'.
He doesn't actually 'need' to do any of this...it's the 'new improved' m and k....he's just keeping things 'fresh'...all for you, the premie...

3)Make fun of EV and spread the word that poor M has never had truly great people around him, that can really help manifest his vision or his work.....he has actually been hurt by these incompetents and he is truly compassionate for even puting up with them. The premies, as always, have let him down...they never really gave their all...

4)Claim that the 'organization' has always been secretive...not M...

5)Pare everything down, but frame it by saying that you're 'going back to the basics', and of course, in a thoroughly modern, high tech, digital way....

6)Probably close down all the halls in the country, except for maybe a few in the larger communities....this was mentioned by John Miller to one community contact person about 2 years ago.(It was one of a number of 'strategies' being considered.)
Supposedly m had said that although some premies went to videos 4 or 5 times/week, and they liked being there(?), did they really need to be there?
The message was that he could wean them off the satsang addiction, by telling them that they could do more for his work by being 'out amongst them'...'in the world'....in other words, after you create the wierd video addiction, when you want to kick them out of their hall, and get those funds directed towards you, you tell them they are of value if they are 'out in the world'....you might have a chance of roping in a few aspirants that way...

7)Go completely digital....videos on satellite TV now...'auto knowledge' (also known as the 'mahatma mac' by instructors).
Make it look like you can reach even more people that way.
Bring the message into the living rooms.

8)Charge higher, make a number of events more cozy, like was just done. Premies will pay a lot more to see m if it is in a small venue, rather than a hall with 5,000 people in it. Some of the real addicts can also see him a number of times around the country, rather just once at a large program. Helps keep the inflated numbers up, as well the revenues.

9)Find ways to make more money by doing less, but making it seem that it is all going forward or deeper. Keep things fresh....

10)Make it seem like all the concepts are finally gone. It's just you and him. It's now so simple...so why aren't you having 'that experience'?...there's nothing in the way now...maybe you need to practice more and give more....then you'll have the experience that I talk about, but don't have either...

11)Keep up the phone feeds, and always take that opportunity to hit them up.
As Yorum Weiss said last year..'We used to have lots of time, but not much money. We were hippies. Now we have grown up...we don't have so much time now, but we have money. So now it's our opportunity to give our money!'

12) Of course, leave very little, if any, paper trail.
One friend of mine was told to 'hit them up' in her community, but not to send out letters.
She was allowed to make an outline of her money pitch and read it to the premies over the phone, but not send them anything in writing.
She left soon after that 'drip' and is a much happier person for it.

13)Tell premies to not trust the internet.

14)Tell premies to watch out for wierd rumors about M, spread by disenchanted, unhappy ex-followers.
They are angry with M because they are 'jilted lovers'...(even though they were the ones who dumped m...)

15)Reinforce all of the above through silly little stories about the 'master and student' relationship, that you make up as you go along.
One friend recently confided that he is having a few doubts, especially after m's last story.

In the story, the Master tells the student to just sit quietly and to not speak.
The master pulls up a bucket of water from the well, and the bucket has holes in it, leaking water onto the ground.
The student says to the master 'the bucket has holes in it!'.
The master is upset with the student, because he simply told him to sit and be quiet.
The student did not do as he was told.

My friend is still wondering why M said that one, and what to do with it......

16)Keep reinforcing the 'heart', which is synonymous with maharaji...
Don't get into 'doubt', which is everything else....
Never talk about the 'conscience'....that could get confronting and give rise to independent thinking...keep is simple with the 'heart' rap-it seems to work....

17) And of course it goes without saying....

Let the poor premies do all the dirty work for you.

Distance yourself from those activites.
Deny any knowledge of them.
Direct the focus towards the real stuff...the master .....

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Date: Wed, Jan 30, 2002 at 06:22:07 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: I suggest this thread **** Best of ***
Message:
***
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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 22:30:43 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To:

Subject: Spot on LA-ex
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Tues, Jan 29, 2002 at 19:51:05 (EST)
From: Bai Ji
Email: None
To:

Subject: La Ex, What a Lucid Distillation...
Message:



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