Ex-Premie Forum 7 Archive
From: Feb 18, 2002 To: Feb 26, 2002 Page: 2 of: 5


Jim -:- Never Condemn, Criticize or Complain -:- Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 21:21:49 (EST)
__ Deborah -:- First you grab them by the balls, ... -:- Mon, Feb 25, 2002 at 21:44:23 (EST)
__ Jim -:- I'm not against the BRAIN, it's the MIND ... [nt] -:- Mon, Feb 25, 2002 at 20:01:39 (EST)
__ __ Jim -:- Alternate: 'I'm not talking about the BRAIN....' [nt] -:- Mon, Feb 25, 2002 at 21:54:43 (EST)
__ Jim -:- I will show you God, face-to-face! [nt] -:- Mon, Feb 25, 2002 at 13:06:21 (EST)
__ __ PatC -:- The meaning of the word GOD -:- Mon, Feb 25, 2002 at 14:31:18 (EST)
__ ChrisP -:- 'The realm of concepts...... -:- Sun, Feb 24, 2002 at 18:57:05 (EST)
__ Jim -:- Nuclulear [nt] -:- Sun, Feb 24, 2002 at 18:03:27 (EST)
__ __ Deborah -:- Jim, it was NuKILLier -:- Mon, Feb 25, 2002 at 21:36:26 (EST)
__ __ PatC -:- I think you mean NUCULAR [nt] -:- Mon, Feb 25, 2002 at 04:55:43 (EST)
__ __ __ cq -:- or even NUCLEAR? (nt) -:- Mon, Feb 25, 2002 at 07:19:28 (EST)
__ __ __ __ PatC -:- Re: or even NUCLEAR? (nt) -:- Mon, Feb 25, 2002 at 14:21:58 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Richard -:- In m's case it's spelled UNCLEAR (nt) [nt] -:- Mon, Feb 25, 2002 at 19:02:58 (EST)
__ __ Pullaver -:- No Chit-Chat. (nt) -:- Sun, Feb 24, 2002 at 22:34:56 (EST)
__ Lemon Pledge -:- You should beg to be dust under the Mster's feet [nt] -:- Sun, Feb 24, 2002 at 01:10:37 (EST)
__ __ pushmepullme -:- Not a leaf moves (defacto kult classic)(nt) -:- Sun, Feb 24, 2002 at 22:39:01 (EST)
__ __ __ 2+2=4 -:- 'Wow, my master is sooooo smart!' [nt] -:- Mon, Feb 25, 2002 at 05:55:20 (EST)
__ Dermot -:- Keep on truckin' [nt] -:- Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 23:31:41 (EST)
__ __ Dermot -:- Shape up or ship out :) [nt] -:- Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 23:32:28 (EST)
__ __ __ }) }) }) -:- This Knowledge is Free [nt] -:- Sun, Feb 24, 2002 at 12:37:44 (EST)
__ __ __ Cynthia -:- It's Time to Decide [nt] -:- Sun, Feb 24, 2002 at 10:43:41 (EST)
__ __ __ Dermot -:- you're all two-faced hypocrites. KISSIMEE [nt] -:- Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 23:35:53 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Pullaver -:- Re: you're all two-faced hypocrites. KISSIMEE -:- Sun, Feb 24, 2002 at 22:13:25 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Dermot -:- Re: you're all two-faced hypocrites. KISSIMEE -:- Mon, Feb 25, 2002 at 11:09:57 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Dermot -:- I declare I will establish peace [nt] -:- Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 23:38:16 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Ddermot -:- Guru is greater than God [nt] -:- Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 23:39:25 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Dermot -:- Keep in touch:) [nt] -:- Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 23:40:41 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Richard -:- and if you don't... JUST WALK! [nt] -:- Sun, Feb 24, 2002 at 16:07:53 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Dermot -:- Brighter than a thousand suns [nt] -:- Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 23:42:28 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Dermot -:- Just do it [nt] -:- Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 23:43:37 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Dermot -:- Ggive me your mind:) [nt] -:- Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 23:45:29 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Yes, of course! -:- Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 23:59:21 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Richard -:- And the recent classic... -:- Sun, Feb 24, 2002 at 15:35:28 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC---I don't know your name -:- and I don't want to know your name [nt] -:- Sun, Feb 24, 2002 at 19:14:35 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Dermot -:- It's the primordial vibration [nt] -:- Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 23:49:39 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- And It's Like ........... [nt] -:- Sun, Feb 24, 2002 at 00:10:59 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Dermot -:- Lol [nt] -:- Sun, Feb 24, 2002 at 00:32:01 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- No, I don't remember 'LOL' [nt] -:- Sun, Feb 24, 2002 at 01:35:13 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- 'The highest manifestation of God is Guru' -:- Mon, Feb 25, 2002 at 12:47:18 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- How about 'Guru is GREATER than God'? [nt] -:- Mon, Feb 25, 2002 at 12:57:04 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Self-effulgent Light [nt] -:- Sun, Feb 24, 2002 at 00:09:56 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Dermot -:- I don't want your money [nt] -:- Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 23:51:17 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Dermot -:- Pray to Guru Maharaj ji [nt] -:- Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 23:53:11 (EST)
__ Jim -:- You Can't Have Any Concepts About the Guru [nt] -:- Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 23:18:31 (EST)
__ Jim -:- Come With the Heart of a Child -:- Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 21:35:11 (EST)
__ Francesca -:- Dance, dance, dance! :~) [nt] -:- Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 19:32:52 (EST)
__ __ Richard -:- Try it, you'll like it. -:- Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 21:10:51 (EST)
__ __ __ Jim -:- Take one step towards Guru Maharaj Ji .... -:- Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 21:33:25 (EST)
__ __ __ __ PatD -:- This bridge to me is very narrow... -:- Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 22:01:50 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Richard -:- The door is always open -:- Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 21:51:16 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Search the Whole World Over ... -:- Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 22:36:02 (EST)
__ John G -:- It was a corollary to don't judge -:- Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 15:24:57 (EST)
__ Cynthia -:- Come with a guileless heart... -:- Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 11:14:37 (EST)
__ Pullaver -:- Never Delay in Attending Satsang -:- Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 08:03:53 (EST)
__ __ gerry -:- Hey Pullaver -:- Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 11:43:02 (EST)
__ __ __ Pullaver -:- Re: Hey Pullaver -:- Sun, Feb 24, 2002 at 20:39:41 (EST)
__ Holy -:- Re: Never Condemn, Criticize or Complain -:- Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 01:04:09 (EST)
__ __ PatC -:- Never put off till tomorrow what you can do today -:- Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 01:43:32 (EST)
__ __ __ PatC - It's more sensible to never do -:- today what you can put off till tomorrow [nt] -:- Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 04:05:13 (EST)
__ __ __ __ janet -:- i remember bob mischler saying -:- Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 04:30:02 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Never mix camel ladus with -:- dung beetles when going to Satsang [nt] -:- Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 04:22:26 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Suedoula -:- Ladus -:- Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 07:58:31 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ John G -:- Re: Ladus -:- Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 14:50:36 (EST)

Today's question -:- re: Foot Kissing of Maharaji -:- Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 08:26:21 (EST)
__ PatC -:- Re: re: Foot Kissing of Maharaji -:- Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 13:17:04 (EST)
__ __ New-Age Redneck -:- On the money, Pat -:- Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 16:18:58 (EST)
__ Joe -:- Depends -:- Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 13:08:40 (EST)

Jean-Michel -:- More Top Secret stuff on EPO -:- Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 05:00:02 (EST)
__ Richard -:- J-M, about the crown -:- Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 12:07:13 (EST)
__ __ Jean-Michel -:- Re: J-M, about the crown -:- Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 12:27:39 (EST)
__ __ __ janet -:- Re: J-M, about real jewels -:- Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 04:05:56 (EST)
__ Curator -:- Also on And It Is Divine -:- Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 05:42:18 (EST)

Cynthia -:- GJM 1976 - Why I Stay On Forum 7 -:- Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 01:46:03 (EST)
__ Jim -:- M is beyond lust .... isn't he? -:- Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 18:00:11 (EST)
__ New-Age Redneck -:- gawd.... what an idiot M is. -:- Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 16:24:40 (EST)
__ Richard -:- Re: being a victim -:- Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 15:22:07 (EST)
__ __ The 'apologist zealot' -:- Re: being a victim -:- Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 18:59:53 (EST)
__ __ __ Richard -:- Who's the victim, AZ?? -:- Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 21:16:06 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Livia -:- real names -:- Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 10:39:27 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Richard -:- Re: real names -:- Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 12:06:32 (EST)
__ __ __ Joe -:- What about M's quote? -:- Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 19:29:29 (EST)
__ __ __ PatD -:- Fuzzy and Weak -:- Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 19:26:18 (EST)
__ __ __ gerry -:- Re: being a victim -:- Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 19:10:42 (EST)
__ __ __ __ The 'apologist zealot' of the day -:- Re: being a victim -:- Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 20:03:48 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- And what, pray tell, was that? -:- Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 20:07:08 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ The 'zealot' -:- Re: And what, pray tell, was that? -:- Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 20:21:54 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatD -:- Sorry to butt in Danny.... -:- Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 20:47:52 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Dermot -:- Wisdom hahaha -:- Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 20:46:21 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatD -:- Night night Dermot [nt] -:- Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 20:58:31 (EST)
__ __ Cynthia -:- Exactly, Richard... -:- Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 15:57:09 (EST)
__ __ __ The 'apologist troll' -:- Re: Exactly, Richard... -:- Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 19:59:05 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Get Lost -:- Troll [nt] -:- Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 10:19:54 (EST)
__ Joe -:- Oh Boy! -:- Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 13:35:32 (EST)
__ __ Cynthia -:- Re: Oh Boy! -:- Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 13:44:38 (EST)
__ PatC -:- Re: GJM 1976 - Why I Stay On Forum 7 -:- Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 13:13:59 (EST)
__ __ Cynthia -:- Re: GJM 1976 - Why I Stay On Forum 7 -:- Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 13:39:22 (EST)
__ __ __ PatC -:- I don't know how you did it, Cynthia -:- Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 13:47:39 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- The Fool on the Hill -:- Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 14:10:48 (EST)
__ Maharaji channelling Maharaji -:- Yeah, um, this mind, ya know -:- Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 08:09:31 (EST)
__ Tonette -:- He's fucked up! -:- Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 02:30:35 (EST)
__ __ PatD -:- You can say that again... -:- Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 18:39:06 (EST)

Helen -:- Unitarian article--on topic -:- Thurs, Feb 21, 2002 at 19:34:40 (EST)
__ Bryn -:- Re: Unitarian article--on topic -:- Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 07:09:46 (EST)
__ __ Helen -:- Re: Unitarian article--on topic -:- Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 17:09:41 (EST)
__ Mercedes -:- Re: Unitarian article--on topic -:- Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 01:18:41 (EST)
__ __ Helen -:- Re: Unitarian article--on topic -:- Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 17:14:31 (EST)

Hi -:- I'm watching you,.... -:- Thurs, Feb 21, 2002 at 19:21:00 (EST)

Jim -:- What the hell is going on?????? -:- Thurs, Feb 21, 2002 at 15:26:51 (EST)
__ New-Age Redneck -:- NO, Jim, what you were going to say -:- Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 16:26:35 (EST)
__ Jerry -:- You're getting old, Jim -:- Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 16:19:14 (EST)
__ __ Jim -:- Hey now! How about some civility and respect? [nt] -:- Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 16:57:48 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- You want credibility or not, Q? -:- Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 18:44:14 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Quiet, if you want credibility you could -:- Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 01:50:47 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Mr. Quiet, How many -:- personalities do you have? [nt] -:- Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 11:00:42 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Since you did not answer my question, Quiet.... -:- Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 13:48:22 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ He answer no. -:- It was deleted. [nt] -:- Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 14:44:27 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC, wondering what was in the emails -:- he didn't want everyone to see/;) [nt] -:- Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 17:50:35 (EST)
__ __ Jim -:- What are you laughing about? -:- Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 12:01:34 (EST)
__ __ __ gerry -:- Please don't feed the trolls -:- Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 12:10:28 (EST)
__ Tonette -:- You had what I refer to as a...... -:- Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 01:00:12 (EST)
__ __ New-Age Redneck -:- Now THAT was PC -:- Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 16:32:42 (EST)
__ mercedes -:- Elves -:- Thurs, Feb 21, 2002 at 21:25:36 (EST)
__ Barbara -:- My theory is... -:- Thurs, Feb 21, 2002 at 15:54:04 (EST)
__ __ Cynthia -:- You are Correct Barbara... -:- Thurs, Feb 21, 2002 at 15:56:43 (EST)
__ __ __ Barbara -:- Thank God for the Edit Feature, Cynth -:- Thurs, Feb 21, 2002 at 16:01:11 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Joe -:- Yessir -:- Thurs, Feb 21, 2002 at 17:36:25 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Barbara -:- Re: Yessir -:- Thurs, Feb 21, 2002 at 23:25:58 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- Cooper/Saul Landau (OT) -:- Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 12:50:41 (EST)
__ PatC -:- Known as gremlins in printing trade [nt] -:- Thurs, Feb 21, 2002 at 15:33:24 (EST)
__ __ Richard -:- True typo story -:- Thurs, Feb 21, 2002 at 20:52:58 (EST)
__ __ __ Barbara -:- Another true typo story -:- Thurs, Feb 21, 2002 at 23:38:28 (EST)
__ cq -:- Re: What the hell is going on?????? -:- Thurs, Feb 21, 2002 at 15:30:21 (EST)
__ __ Joe -:- What upsets me..... (OT) -:- Thurs, Feb 21, 2002 at 15:36:15 (EST)
__ __ __ Jerry -:- Moulin Rouge -:- Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 19:13:37 (EST)
__ __ __ mercedes -:- also...(OT) -:- Thurs, Feb 21, 2002 at 21:35:42 (EST)
__ __ __ Richard -:- Loved Tennenbaums -:- Thurs, Feb 21, 2002 at 20:48:10 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Joe -:- Hackman didn't get nominated -:- Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 12:30:55 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Richard -:- Re: Hackman didn't get nominated -:- Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 13:12:48 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- Yeah, the writing was great -:- Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 13:21:43 (EST)
__ __ __ __ mercedes -:- Tennenbaums -:- Thurs, Feb 21, 2002 at 21:28:29 (EST)
__ __ __ bill -:- Re: What upsets me..... (OT) -:- Thurs, Feb 21, 2002 at 19:18:48 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Anyone see 'Requiem for a Dream'? OT -:- Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 11:25:43 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- That wasn't so good -:- Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 19:21:23 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Barbara -:- Thank god for foreign flix -:- Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 03:15:30 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ bill--quite a review! -:- ''the absolute depths of despair and destruction'' -:- Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 18:28:03 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Barbara -:- If Only Ellen Burstyn ... OT -:- Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 15:30:45 (EST)
__ __ __ Cynthia -:- I'm a crispy critter right now (OT) -:- Thurs, Feb 21, 2002 at 15:47:14 (EST)


Date: Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 21:21:49 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Never Condemn, Criticize or Complain
Message:
How many of you 70's vintage premies remember this one:

Never Condemn, Criticize or Complain

(or was it:

Never Criticize, Condemn or Complain?)

This was something of a sixth Commandment for a while. A corollary of the cult new age homily:

When you point a finger at someone you're really pointing three fingers back at yourself

But what other profundities did M teach us? I mean these above were complete bullshit but boy did we ever take them to heart! Why, it wasn't until jut a few years ago that I realized the trick is to make sure I condemned, criticized and complained if I wanted to diss someone. And, as for pointing fingers, you'll note that if you point three fingers at someone, you'll only have one pointing back at yourself.

My point, though, isn't to quibble with such ageless wisdom. Rather, it's to ask 1) if someone knows where this garbage came from; and 2) if anyone remembers other Guru Gems.

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Date: Mon, Feb 25, 2002 at 21:44:23 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: First you grab them by the balls, ...
Message:
than their head and their heart will follow.

International Instructors Conference
Embassy Suites, Oxnard, Ca

I got to sit in the room in the service of door usher while Maha lectured the instructors on how to court real world business on his behalf.

cheers,

deborah, who learned a lot in those three days ;)

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Date: Mon, Feb 25, 2002 at 20:01:39 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I'm not against the BRAIN, it's the MIND ... [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Mon, Feb 25, 2002 at 21:54:43 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Alternate: 'I'm not talking about the BRAIN....' [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Mon, Feb 25, 2002 at 13:06:21 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I will show you God, face-to-face! [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Mon, Feb 25, 2002 at 14:31:18 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: The meaning of the word GOD
Message:
G for Generator (supposedly Bubble Gum Ji)

O for Operator (supposedly Roger Ji)

D for Destroyer (supposedly Bowly Ji)

Pimple Rawat was of course greater than all three of those rolled together in a fat spliv.

And the face of god was fat and jowly and had lots of pimples.

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Date: Sun, Feb 24, 2002 at 18:57:05 (EST)
From: ChrisP
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: 'The realm of concepts......
Message:
'The realm of concepts, no matter how seemingly good, is incredibly dangerous'.

I like this M quote because the concepts that gave me the most grief were those within K's belief system (BS) itself. It also inadvertently advocates using one's judgement.

Similarly the quote 'point one finger at someone else and there are three fingers pointing back at you' - my aunt used to drive this one home. I always thought it cool in the sense that you better make sure your own slate is clean before criticizing anyone else's.

However, it's typically M's style to take such universal 'truisms' and twist them to his own ends, i.e. to simply discount any judgement on our part, especially towards him - a subtle instillation of fear to criticize.

ChrisP, it's been quite the mindfuck religion

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Date: Sun, Feb 24, 2002 at 18:03:27 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Nuclulear [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Mon, Feb 25, 2002 at 21:36:26 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Jim, it was NuKILLier
Message:
Weren't you paying attention? ;)
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Date: Mon, Feb 25, 2002 at 04:55:43 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I think you mean NUCULAR [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Mon, Feb 25, 2002 at 07:19:28 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: or even NUCLEAR? (nt)
Message:
or even NUCLEAR? (nt)
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Date: Mon, Feb 25, 2002 at 14:21:58 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Re: or even NUCLEAR? (nt)
Message:
Now I'm so confused I'll have to look up the real spelling before I ever use that word again. :C)
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Date: Mon, Feb 25, 2002 at 19:02:58 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: In m's case it's spelled UNCLEAR (nt) [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sun, Feb 24, 2002 at 22:34:56 (EST)
From: Pullaver
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: No Chit-Chat. (nt)
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sun, Feb 24, 2002 at 01:10:37 (EST)
From: Lemon Pledge
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: You should beg to be dust under the Mster's feet [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sun, Feb 24, 2002 at 22:39:01 (EST)
From: pushmepullme
Email: None
To: Lemon Pledge
Subject: Not a leaf moves (defacto kult classic)(nt)
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Mon, Feb 25, 2002 at 05:55:20 (EST)
From: 2+2=4
Email: None
To: pushmepullme
Subject: 'Wow, my master is sooooo smart!' [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 23:31:41 (EST)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Keep on truckin' [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 23:32:28 (EST)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: Shape up or ship out :) [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sun, Feb 24, 2002 at 12:37:44 (EST)
From: }) }) })
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: This Knowledge is Free [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sun, Feb 24, 2002 at 10:43:41 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: It's Time to Decide [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 23:35:53 (EST)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: you're all two-faced hypocrites. KISSIMEE [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sun, Feb 24, 2002 at 22:13:25 (EST)
From: Pullaver
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: Re: you're all two-faced hypocrites. KISSIMEE
Message:
In Atlantic City in 1976 he called us two-faced monsters. I distinctly remember musing this one over while taking a long walk down the boardwalk choking on saltwater taffy and following Mr. Peanuts onto the Steel Pier.

I read someone else here ascribing this comment to Kissimmee but I think it might have been mistaken for another equally rancorous rant. Funny what heat stroke does to the memory.:D

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Date: Mon, Feb 25, 2002 at 11:09:57 (EST)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Pullaver
Subject: Re: you're all two-faced hypocrites. KISSIMEE
Message:
Hi Pull

No, I'm pretty sure it was 78 or 79 Kissimee. The reason being, I travelled from UK to attend both and at one of them (I think the 79 one) I was doing service and heard it all over the loudspeakers. It was the really heavy satsang he gave that he apologised for in the evening (he blurted his insults in the afternoon).....he probably apologised because a whole load of premies packed up and left after it.

I'm not disputing his Atlantic City spiel, though I can't remember it and wasn't there.

Cheers

Dermot.

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Date: Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 23:38:16 (EST)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: I declare I will establish peace [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 23:39:25 (EST)
From: Ddermot
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: Guru is greater than God [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 23:40:41 (EST)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Ddermot
Subject: Keep in touch:) [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sun, Feb 24, 2002 at 16:07:53 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: and if you don't... JUST WALK! [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 23:42:28 (EST)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: Brighter than a thousand suns [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 23:43:37 (EST)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: Just do it [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 23:45:29 (EST)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: Ggive me your mind:) [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 23:59:21 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: Yes, of course!
Message:
Give Me Your Mind and I Will Give You Peace

How could I forget?

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Date: Sun, Feb 24, 2002 at 15:35:28 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: And the recent classic...
Message:
Why do you want to know?
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Date: Sun, Feb 24, 2002 at 19:14:35 (EST)
From: PatC---I don't know your name
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: and I don't want to know your name [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 23:49:39 (EST)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: It's the primordial vibration [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sun, Feb 24, 2002 at 00:10:59 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: And It's Like ........... [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sun, Feb 24, 2002 at 00:32:01 (EST)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Lol [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sun, Feb 24, 2002 at 01:35:13 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: No, I don't remember 'LOL' [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Mon, Feb 25, 2002 at 12:47:18 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: 'The highest manifestation of God is Guru'
Message:
'Who is Guru? The highest manifestation of God is Guru. So when Guru is here, God is here'.
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Date: Mon, Feb 25, 2002 at 12:57:04 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: How about 'Guru is GREATER than God'? [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sun, Feb 24, 2002 at 00:09:56 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: Self-effulgent Light [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 23:51:17 (EST)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: I don't want your money [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 23:53:11 (EST)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: Pray to Guru Maharaj ji [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 23:18:31 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: You Can't Have Any Concepts About the Guru [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 21:35:11 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Come With the Heart of a Child
Message:
Or, alternatively:

Be Guileless Like a Child

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Date: Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 19:32:52 (EST)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Dance, dance, dance! :~) [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 21:10:51 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: Try it, you'll like it.
Message:
And that classic promise:
Surrender the reins of your life to me and I will give you peace.

I actually prefer Rajeshwar's aphorism:
Meeting without eating is cheating.

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Date: Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 21:33:25 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Take one step towards Guru Maharaj Ji ....
Message:
... and he'll take a hundred steps towards you.
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Date: Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 22:01:50 (EST)
From: PatD
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: This bridge to me is very narrow...
Message:
....and you can't cross it with a wife on your back. She'll weigh you down.

Not the literal words,I can't remember those,but pretty close.

'Wife on your back', I remember, along with some long drawn out spiel about rucksacks.

Birmingham (UK) around 1980.

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Date: Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 21:51:16 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: The door is always open
Message:
That is, unless you post here, get fingered by the forum monitor (hi BJ) and are blacklisted from all events as I was.

BTW: I'm not the one who is a threat to M and his knowledge, he is.

The door is always open
has now been replaced with the more dismissive
If you don't like it, just walk!

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Date: Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 22:36:02 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Search the Whole World Over ...
Message:
... but Just Keep Me in Your Back Pocket
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Date: Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 15:24:57 (EST)
From: John G
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: It was a corollary to don't judge
Message:
Not judging others or your own experience was mandatory or else you might start thinking that this experience wore off quickly and most certainly under the pressures of the world and, of course, to help guide us in the direction of never doubting the purity of the master.
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Date: Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 11:14:37 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Come with a guileless heart...
Message:
And no cheat or deceit.

And I suppose the guileless heart means the same as 'come as a child.'

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Date: Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 08:03:53 (EST)
From: Pullaver
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Never Delay in Attending Satsang
Message:
But I think this was one of the five commandments we received when receiving K back then, which also included constantly meditate and remember the holy name . As a matter of fact that commandment was always a bit of mind-fuck. How else was it supposedly possible for one to constantly meditate 24/7 if not by remembering 'holy name' (larf). For some reason constantly doing nectar technique or walking around with your thumbs in yer ears or with your index finger glued to your third eye seemed like a viable option. The other commandments were 'never put off 'til tomorrow what you can do today', 'never leave room for doubt in yer mind' (now updated to 'never doubt the purity of the Master') and a bit about being ecologically responsible. This last one was obviously included because of someone like a Mishler or Donner 'cuz Marjie obviously could care less whether the planet was trashed or not. But anyway who can challenge the wisdom behind never delaying in attending satsang when one hesitation could cause you to be lost and drowning in a sea of maya.
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Date: Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 11:43:02 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Pullaver
Subject: Hey Pullaver
Message:
I wanted you to know that just because we had a disagreement does NOT mean you are persona non grata here. In fact you are most welcome and I appreciate your sensible contributions to our discussion.

Thanks.

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Date: Sun, Feb 24, 2002 at 20:39:41 (EST)
From: Pullaver
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Re: Hey Pullaver
Message:
Thanks Gerry but I kinda sussed we were just being like a couple of pitbulls marking our ground . . . even if you are crossed with a chihuaha |D
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Date: Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 01:04:09 (EST)
From: Holy
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Never Condemn, Criticize or Complain
Message:
'Don't leave til tomorrow what you can do today'
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Date: Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 01:43:32 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Holy
Subject: Never put off till tomorrow what you can do today
Message:
'Don't leave til tomorrow what you can do today'


---

That sounds quite profound at first but, if you analyze it a bit, it begins to look a lot like plain old Maharajism - an empty bubble.

It seems sensible to do what you CAN do today but really that's all you can do. You can't do more than you can do. If you do more than you can do today it will be tomorrow before you've had any sleep.

It's more sensible to do only what you absolutely have to do today to pay the bills and then, if there's time, to do a few things that you really want to do.

''Don't complain, criticize or condemn'' is still a commandent in the Revised Church of Saint Miragey. It was made known often, loudly, and in no uncertain terms that kvetching was not allowed which is of course silly because all human progress came about through dissatisfaction.

Condemnation of course is fine in the cult as long as it is only done by Saint M and is directed at everything else: premies, politics, other religions, family, neighbors, cultures etc - in short everybody and everything else in this world except Rev Rawat is imperfect.

But Rev Rawat made it very clear in a series of speeches in 1999-2000 that, if you wanted to participate, no criticism was allowed.

''If you want to help me, don't start telling me what to do or criticise me. If you want to help the master, just come humbly and ask 'How can I help?'' is what he said.

But of course the thoroughly modern PWK never took any of that stuff seriously, well sort of, but most of the time they seemed to forget and needed to be reminded. It sometimes seems as if ex-premies are the only students who were paying attention during Rev Rawat's classes and learnt (some quickly and others slowly but surely) and then they graduated.

The only students left in Rev Rawat's class are those who have not been paying attention. They keep flunking and forgetting what they have learned and need to be reminded. I would have thought a Walkman saying, ''Remember your breath,'' was cheaper and more reliable.

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Date: Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 04:05:13 (EST)
From: PatC - It's more sensible to never do
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: today what you can put off till tomorrow [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 04:30:02 (EST)
From: janet
Email: None
To: PatC - It's more sensible to never do
Subject: i remember bob mischler saying
Message:
a version that stood this commandment on its head, once, in new york , at Joe Lopez's karate dojo.
he was on tour and trying to inject some sense into the pre-millennium frenzy, and was talking about how premies had gotten the commandment to a point where they were burning themselves out on service, trying to do everything at once, and the work was suffering as a result. i remember being agog that someone would be so amazing as to actually analyze one of maharaji's most worshipped pronouncements and modify it to sclae it down to something more reachable! What he said, was 'if you take the commandment and look at it, it says clearly to not put off until tomorrow what you can do today. that means, you have to reconize, what is something that is possible to do today, but you also have to be able to recognize what is not possible to be done today, and so should be put off until tomorrow. that way, you will not waste your time, and maharaj ji's, in trying to accomplish things which it is not the right time to do yet.'

I always took the comandment as a prod, a goose in the ass, to get up and act on things you saw or knew you should be doing, though your tendency might be to want to agree verbally that they were worthy things, but you might want to procrastinate and give them lip service only, which trait would evidence the Deadly Sin of Sloth. so we all flew around in a state of OCD, mania, hyperactivity and exhaustion, chasing every little suggestion to 'burn the candle of this life in the light of service to Him', never questioning the wisdom of it, the practicality of it, the appropriateness of it [oo, that would be 'mind'] and mischler was the first, maybe the only, person I ever heard sound a whistle and call our attention to the idea that just maybe, the Master's AGYA could withstand some scrutiny and sanity before being applied.
Had it come from anybody else, I probably would have been the first to jump all over the other person's shit, and sanctimoniously school them in the evils of the Mind, weaseling in, and looking for insidious ways to undermine and modify the Lord's commands more to our convenience, our laziness, our liking.
but this was Bob Mischler! The Number One Premie. the head of the mission! maharaji's right hand man! It must be all right, i reasoned-- because maharaji worked with bob every day! if there was anything wrong with it, maharaji would have stopped him, at once and made him take it back! maharaji knew everything! not a leaves moves!

so I was wowed. i didn't know you could DO that with the five commandments!

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Date: Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 04:22:26 (EST)
From: Never mix camel ladus with
Email: None
To: PatC - It's more sensible to never do
Subject: dung beetles when going to Satsang [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 07:58:31 (EST)
From: Suedoula
Email: None
To: Never mix camel ladus with
Subject: Ladus
Message:
I used to love that ladu story! I can't even remember the context in which it was told but I now have a different understanding of its meaning. I thought then that those without K were the ones eating the ladus. Now I am just thankful that I have stopped eating them myself. When are the rest of the PWKs going to stop eating the goomer's ladus?

Warmly,
Susan

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Date: Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 14:50:36 (EST)
From: John G
Email: None
To: Suedoula
Subject: Re: Ladus
Message:
Hi Susan,

I'm the wiseass who posted the above NT. Yeah, I remember the first time he told that story. I really wanted to listen but couldn't. He always seemed to go off on tangents and I always wanted to scream 'finish the goddamn story' but of course that was my mind not me which reminds me of the time I was playing golf and felt really hungry and this big storm blew in and......

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Date: Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 08:26:21 (EST)
From: Today's question
Email: None
To: All
Subject: re: Foot Kissing of Maharaji
Message:
Hypothetical: You have a decision to make regarding the direction of your life.

How open would you be to the opinion of someone who has kissed the foot of Maharaji? Even if this person now understands how disgusting and ridiculous it was.

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Date: Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 13:17:04 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Today's question
Subject: Re: re: Foot Kissing of Maharaji
Message:
Well, I usually trust and respect people who admit their mistakes and learn from them and am absolutely suspicious of those who never admit their mistakes and never apologise, like Rawat.
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Date: Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 16:18:58 (EST)
From: New-Age Redneck
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: On the money, Pat
Message:
Those who admit an error are those that I trust the most. ESPECIALLY when they take responsibility for the error, as well.

Giving and taking advice on 'life decisions,' is dangerous at its best, but those that have the guts to admit an error are the ones that are actually LEARNING from life,as opposed to those who are doomed to repeat the error over and over again.

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Date: Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 13:08:40 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Today's question
Subject: Depends
Message:
I think if someone has come to the conclusion (through a very hard lesson like being in that cult), that blind acceptance and submission, even if you like the feeling you get some of the time, is a bad thing, that's a real advantage in a person's opinion, IMO.

I remember talking to a therpist one time who specialized in helping people deal with getting out of cults, and he said something he really admired in ex-cult members what their keen ability to spot bullshit, especially to spot if someone was manipulating them, appealing to fear or childish regression, etc.

So, in that sense, I might think that person's powers of analysis, at least in those areas might be better than the average person.

Also, people who did it 20 years ago, when they were teenagers or gullible young adults, can be forgiven. Lots of people did bizarre things in their youth, and although kissing M's feet is weird, so are lots of other things.

But is someone is doing it now, I would have to say that when it comes to issues around M and the cult, that person has a huge blindspot, and one they might do all kinds of deceptive things to keep it from being exposed.

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Date: Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 05:00:02 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: All
Subject: More Top Secret stuff on EPO
Message:
The Krishna Crown and The Flute, in their transport box !

Thanks to Richard.

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Date: Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 12:07:13 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: J-M, about the crown
Message:
J-M, you and others asked for more info on the box and crown. I wasn't at all involved with these things but have a bit more info from those who were. As for the crown, someone who was in the design group at DECA believes it was made in India and was most likely costume jewelry. There was a lot of that in the bazaars there. It was possibly reworked by an artist and jeweler at DECA. The costumes, malas, etc were made by seamstresses and artists at DECA. All part of the master plan to spread peace on earth.
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Date: Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 12:27:39 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Re: J-M, about the crown
Message:
If you carefully look at the details on different pictures taken at different times, it looks like the crown has been modified a few times.

I doubt it's made with real jewels.

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Date: Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 04:05:56 (EST)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Re: J-M, about real jewels
Message:
I was told that at least one of them WAS real. the explanation went that at some point in the ear;y 70's. maharaji got tired of all the rings, necklaces, watches, etc, that had been pranamed to him as gifts all over the world, which were taking up space in storage but he would never wear or use--and he had this idea one day to have all of them taken apart and melted down, and the precious metals refined again, and everything reworked into making the crown. the story went that he forbid anything to go into it but gifts dedicated to him sincerely, and that outside procurements were not to be added. the crown resulting was very heavy, and he had to sit very still when it was on his head, beacuse it could easily lop his head over and break his neck with its weight if he turned too fast. that's why he only wore it for short periods and didn't move his head much while it was on.
but the jewels and precious metals were all real.
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Date: Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 05:42:18 (EST)
From: Curator
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Also on And It Is Divine
Message:
together with more devotional gems. Click on above link.
[ And It Is Divine ]
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Date: Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 01:46:03 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: All
Subject: GJM 1976 - Why I Stay On Forum 7
Message:
Apparently, some premies just don't like me and the way I express myself. I always like to tell the truth. Further below I received another anonymous complaint. It offered quotes on not being a victim and so on and so forth. So I decided that I'd respond with a quote from Guru Maharaji Ji himself. Nothing else I could find would suffice.

Anonymous Poster:

that's about the only thing that goes on here, and you Cynthia are on of the biggest whiners. Whining as a form of revenge....interesting. Talk about limp and impotent.

From Atlantic City Coordinators Conference - 1976:

GMJ: What is your confusion?

Premie: I was in Canada, I'm from Canada, and I watched a lot of ashram premies move out and I think from listening to other people here it was a different thing or my perspective was different. Because I applied for the noviate training program that was being set up in London, and I applied for that while everyone was leaving the ashram. And it was like an ambiguious place because I was wanting to enter the ashram with such a sincere desire, and no one knew what the ashram was. You know. Denver didn't know. And you didn't say anything for, well, we didn't hear anything from you for such long time from you…

GMJ: No, no, no. That's not the point. The microphone switch was turned off. That was a reverberater in the back somewhere reverberating the old sound. That's not the way I sound. Everything was laid out, you know? Everything was laid out. But, it's just like the way everything was presented after that, you know, was really weird. To my surprise, because everything was laid out. Yeah? What?

Premie: So, I just, I saw all that happen but I still went to the novitiate program because I still feel a strong desire to live ashram life. Um. Just to really dedicate myself to you and to service you. But I also see that I need a wife, there was just that one point in the ashram in the novitiate program that first was you, first was your service, but there was a very human part of me that needed a wife. And, that's where I am now, and I'd like to know, you were saying that married people can be in the ashram, and if that's so, then there's no confusion.

GMJ: Not forever and ever though, only for a certain period supervised by an ashram supervisor, and that's not going to be for quite a while. The point is, let me ask you one question. There's a part in you that wants a wife. I don't know this girl's name, but she at a point was he. And she did get married as a he. And did have some children, but then has an operation now she's a woman. It's like she was on tv and you couldn't say that she was ever a man. Another point is, she might get married again, and play the other side of the role as someone's wife.

Now you tell me, is that why you need a wife? Do you need a wife, or something else needs a wife? Could it be that something else needs a wife? There are possibilities that you might need a husband. Like she does now. Why? Is it really you? I mean if you don't really want a wife, it is possible today, you might have a husband. So the point is, let's not look at it that it is a human necessity, because it would be a human necessity if you really look at it because you would be a woman. But that's not the way it is. It really is a desire for so many people, but to me it's really no more than an extension of mind. To me. Because the point is it's just like having, right now your mind is saying 'a wife.' Okay? Is that all? Is that all that is going to happen? Is that it? That's it? You're going to get married, you gonna have a wife. Period? Why the second thing? All you want is a wife. So, then from that, it's going to be 'oh, I want a child, oh I want this, oh I want that.' See somehow mind has to tap into you, finds your weakest spot, taps into to you. Boom. You know? It's like, the reason why you want a wife, that reason is not going to exist always in your lifetime. And it might not even exist by the time you get back to Canada. You might have a wreck or something (laughs) you know, and that reason might not even exist from here to Canada, despite the fact when you will get old there will be no necessity for it as such. So the point is do you want a wife? I've heard a lot people say that that's what they want. To me that's an extension of mind, the way the mind taps into you, the way the mind taps.

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Date: Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 18:00:11 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: M is beyond lust .... isn't he?
Message:
The cult dogma clearly stated that, unlike us, M had no personal attachment to anything, anyone any any. He was supposedly like a lotus flower floating above the murky, fetid water of this world. He didn't marry to satisfy any personal desire -- how heretical to even think as much! -- but to implement some very grand and cosmic plan. That's why we immediately accepted his wife as Durga Ji, Goddess of Love, and not just Mrs. Rawat.

This rant of his reminds of that dogma as M clearly dismisses any of the normal, personal reasons people have to hook up with one another. It's as if he's anxious that we never even think of mistaking his motives with our own. After all, we are regular people with all sorts of sordid, vile urges. He, on the other hand, is beyond all that. We might marry for companionship or lust; he was a million miles beyond that trap.

Now, 25 years later, we see what a farce that all was. Surely no one aware of M's sexual peccadillos, not to mention his callous dalliances with steady mistresses like Monica Lewis, still thinks that M's beyond the rest of us mere humans. Even M's apologists know that argument's dead in the water. But back in '76 it was the unspoken premise underlying all of these anti-human relations screeds of his.

I know it's obvious but I just wanted to say it.

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Date: Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 16:24:40 (EST)
From: New-Age Redneck
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: gawd.... what an idiot M is.
Message:
Did anyone actually understand a thing he said in these quotes? Gawd, did I actually feign understanding when he spoke like this?

M is the one that is confused.... thoroughly, utterly and totally confused. He's hopeless...

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Date: Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 15:22:07 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Re: being a victim
Message:
Cynthia, I just read what was posted to you below as suggested wisdom. This caught my eye as being wise indeed but not in the way the apologist zealot intended.

3. Never allow yourself to play the victim. Victims have given away their power. You alone are responsible for your life. When you fully accept this, you will claim your inner power to make better choices. Change often comes from nothing more than a shift in perspective.

Precisely. To give your power, time, money and love to someone who doesn't know you exist or care is being a victim for sure. We are responsible for our lives, not M. All it takes is a shift in perspective to see how he victimizes his followers to enrich himself.

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Date: Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 18:59:53 (EST)
From: The 'apologist zealot'
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Re: being a victim
Message:
Like I said to Cynthia, the chances of you folks hearing anything like wisdom through the fog of your gi-normous bitch is quite remote. You have just proved that Richard.

I think the gist of the quote was that once you adopt the position of being the victim, you give away your power to be responsible for your own life. From that point on, the choices you make will be fuzzy and weak.

Make sense?

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Date: Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 21:16:06 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: The 'apologist zealot'
Subject: Who's the victim, AZ??
Message:
AZ,

I'm going against my policy of posting to nameless ghosts but make an exception in your case. As you are afraid to make yourself known to us, I can only assume you are ashamed of your position as devotee of M.

You apparently did not bother to read my post but only choose to imagine what you want to see. I did, in fact, hear wisdom in the quote I posted from your attack on Cynthia. The wisdom is that if I take responsibility for my life and the choices I make, then I am not a victim. I am subject to the results of my actions and will act accordingly. I am and I have. Acknowledging what I know to be true has brought me to the conclusion that M is an arrogant egotist with nothing of value to offer me.

If your personal experience is different than mine, I support your choice to enjoy that experience to its fullest. But when you think it is your duty to tell someone here what they should or should not say, that's when I withdraw my support. Make sense?

I have no bitch, as you put it, with M. I only expect him to take responsibility for what he has said and done. As a former dedicated practioner of the knowledge he offers, I speak from my own experience. After all, isn't that what it's supposed to be about - one's own experience? God forbid I actually see the world clearly, discover it is not as M has said and fearlessly say in public what my experience is. That would be 'bitching' as you call it or as your master used to call it 'just your mind'.

Well, it is my mind and not something I plan to waste on believing in fairy tales. Thinking for myself and living by a code of ethics is my choice. Apparently your master missed that day of school.

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Date: Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 10:39:27 (EST)
From: Livia
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: real names
Message:
A good point,Richard. I post under a pseudonym because I am still not ready to reveal my real name. The reasons are this: that I still have many good premie friends and I am not emotionally ready to deal with the fallout of possibly losing their friendship. I have known some of these people for 30 years and they are very dear to me. When I am with them, I don't pretend to be still into M, I avoid or change the subject, or try to gently debate with them. These are my honest reasons for remaining anonymous for the time being. Why are the premies who post here anonymous, though? If I were a premie 'troll' I hope I would post under my real name. After all, what would there be to fear? I would earn the respect, surely, of fellow premies if I came here and defended him. So what could be the reason for a premie to post anonymously? There's only one reason I can think of - and it's fear, yes, fear of Maharaji. A premie posting here is afraid that Maharaji reads this site from time to time and will then know who that premie is. And he has asked/told premies not to come here.

So please, Mr or Mrs Apologist Zealot, examine your reasons for posting anonymously here, and come clean with honesty, as I have attempted to do, I hope to the best of my ability. If it isn't fear of Maharaji, what is it?

With regards, Livia

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Date: Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 12:06:32 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Livia
Subject: Re: real names
Message:
Well said, Livia. After I posted that I hoped I wasn't inadvertantly trashing the sincere folks who want to post here anonymously. I posted anonymously for awhile and got acceptance and respect for what I said. I totally support anonymity as long as the poster is being genuine.

I don't mind if a premie posts here anonymously unless they come here to preach and tell us what we should really be feeling. Or insinuating someone is 'bitching and whining' (typical apologist critique) when, in fact, that person is obviously speaking from their experience.

In the few instances when true dialogue between EX and PWK have taken place here, it has been interesting and, dare I say it, enlightening. I welcome more dialogue like that but I'm not holding my breath.

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Date: Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 19:29:29 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: The 'apologist zealot'
Subject: What about M's quote?
Message:
So, aplogist, what did Maharaji mean when he told that guy that wanting a wife was just 'mind?' What do you think that means? Care to comment?

Speaking of fog, maybe you could clear that away with your insights.

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Date: Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 19:26:18 (EST)
From: PatD
Email: None
To: The 'apologist zealot'
Subject: Fuzzy and Weak
Message:
..you could be right but the antidote sounds like Strength through Joy to me. Always did really,but you know how it is when you believe a little cocksucker is God.

Incidentally,you see the Scientologists are being prosecuted in France for deception? Makes ya think. (Associated Press)

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Date: Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 19:10:42 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: The 'apologist zealot'
Subject: Re: being a victim
Message:
Like I said to Cynthia, the chances of you folks hearing anything like wisdom through the fog of your gi-normous bitch is quite remote. You have just proved that Richard.

I think the gist of the quote was that once you adopt the position of being the victim, you give away your power to be responsible for your own life. From that point on, the choices you make will be fuzzy and weak.

Make sense?


---

No, it doesn't make sense. You can't 'give away your power.' That's ridiculous. But you can be hoodwinked and deceived. Sorry it has happened to you for so long. Some of you guys will undoubtly go to your graves believing Rawat's bullshit.

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Date: Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 20:03:48 (EST)
From: The 'apologist zealot' of the day
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Re: being a victim
Message:
Come on gerry, get real. Of course you can give your power away. You do so when you abdicate responsibility for decision making to some external force. Each one of us is confronted with that possibility every day.

But you're right on your last point. I will go to my grave believing what I've seen.

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Date: Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 20:07:08 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: The 'apologist zealot' of the day
Subject: And what, pray tell, was that?
Message:
But you're right on your last point. I will go to my grave believing what I've seen.

What was that you saw? God face-to-face by chance? Your guru stumbling drunk? What?

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Date: Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 20:21:54 (EST)
From: The 'zealot'
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: And what, pray tell, was that?
Message:
Wisdom in action touching the sweet spot of life. It doesn't get any better than that.
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Date: Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 20:47:52 (EST)
From: PatD
Email: None
To: The 'zealot'
Subject: Sorry to butt in Danny....
Message:
...you won't mind me putting a name to you,even if it's wrong,will you?

You sound like a pimp. What's this 'sound like' shit,you are a fucking pimp.

Wisdom in action touching the sweet spot of life.

Yeah,Rock me Maharaji,& Roll me tonite....wham bam thankyou maam,& don't forget to put the banknote in the brown envelope before you leave.

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Date: Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 20:46:21 (EST)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: The 'zealot'
Subject: Wisdom hahaha
Message:
Wisdom in action. For wisdom read Rawats adolescent quotes on his latest website, with ever so deep musical background. Action? How about bending down to kiss silk socks at Amaroo?

HAHAHA what a joke, mister.....wisdom in action .....hilarious, really hilarious.

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Date: Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 20:58:31 (EST)
From: PatD
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: Night night Dermot [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 15:57:09 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Exactly, Richard...
Message:
Richard,

Using that particular tactic against me is quite cleaver. But I don't bite that one anymore. Sure, it evokes a bit of anger, but nothing more than that.

Remaining a victim keeps a person in a stasis. There were times many years ago in which I could easily remain in the victim role. I have a lot of excuses to be always a victim. But I don't live in stasis. I have moved on to survivor and thriver.

The survivor has released the victim role and moves on to realizing self-potential and possibility (not just about m's cult, but about living). Becoming a thriver moves a person out further, exploring and realizing those potentials.

With all the personal history I have written here willing and consciously, that's an old button ''oh you're a victim, pity me, etc.'' that the trolls try to push. This week a button got pushed that caused me temporary sadness. But I bounced back because it's an issue I've dealt with an have moved on.

What these trolls (I'm pretty sure I know who they are and with whom they're in contact, a hunch, anyway) don't realize is that the more they push that 'you're a whiner, a victim' button on me, the more strong I become. Hence, they are relinquishing their power to me. It's ironical. I feel more power within myself to be even more honest, despite the attempt to tire me out with those old buttons.

It's laughable actually. They think they know who and what I am, but really know nothing about me, how I live, how I treasure my life, how I live my life. So I plug away, knowing that I am beyond the programming of the cult, going about the business of my life.

Good observation, Richard
Cynthia

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Date: Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 19:59:05 (EST)
From: The 'apologist troll'
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Re: Exactly, Richard...
Message:
What these trolls (I'm pretty sure I know who they are and with whom they're in contact, a hunch, anyway) don't realize is that the more they push that 'you're a whiner, a victim' button on me, the more strong I become. Hence, they are relinquishing their power to me. It's ironical. I feel more power within myself to be even more honest, despite the attempt to tire me out with those old buttons.

I am happy you are becoming stronger Cynthia. The world needs more strong people. I am also happy that I have played a role in making you more honest. That was in fact my intention.....not to tire you out.

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Date: Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 10:19:54 (EST)
From: Get Lost
Email: None
To: The 'apologist troll'
Subject: Troll [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 13:35:32 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Oh Boy!
Message:
God Cynthia, you really are transcribing that tape. What a nightmare. I don't think I could stand to listen to that again. It's great you are doing this. This is the kind of destructive crap people need to hear, that Maharaji spouted.

According to Maharaji, your mind is evil, your desires are evil, all the 'humaness' that you possess to want to connect with another human being, or humanity in general is evil, and only service to Maharaji is real and beautiful. The man is truly fucked up, and, unfortunately, also fucked up a lot of other people.

For people like Catweasel to know this stuff and then blather on about about how it's all just an internal experience to enjoy, is just pretty outrageous.

I think it's not long after that when he compares moving out of the ashram and getting married as equivalent to shoving a stick of dynamite in your throat and blowing your brains out. And of course, the little putz laughed while he said it, and so did the premies, although I suspect it was mostly nervous laughter on the premies part.

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Date: Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 13:44:38 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: Oh Boy!
Message:
Joe,

Oh yes I am. The problem with it is I have to rewind it so many times, because he talks so fast, backs up, rewinds himself--many twists and turns in this one. So I can only do it in doses. It's not triggering me, it's just very convoluted speaking. That section alone took me at least one hour.

That's why it's taking long. I can't only take so much of the constant rewinds, and I insist on it being verbatim. It's a real doozy though, unbelievable. More will come...it's a must for EPO.

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Date: Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 13:13:59 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Re: GJM 1976 - Why I Stay On Forum 7
Message:
Thanks, Cynthia. I remember listening to that tape a few times when we had a co-ordinators meeting in South Africa. In fact I think I may still have it somewhere. At the time of course that section seemed hilarious to me.

With hindsight you can see the same old Rawat tricks: evade the question, turn it into a joke, blame others for not carrying out his orders, demean the questioner, mix in enough gobbledygook to confuse everyone and of course brush every bit of sincerity aside by demonizing the mind.

Thanks again for that.

What a horrible, deceitful, two-faced, pompous prick the man is. It will all come back to haunt him and one day he will have no friends and his own family will probably detest him. In fact I wouldn't be at all surprised if that were already the case and all he has is the empty game of misplaced adoration for an hour on stage now and then.

He will eventually be destroyed by his own irresponsible and arrogant words.

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Date: Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 13:39:22 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Re: GJM 1976 - Why I Stay On Forum 7
Message:
Hi Pat,

Everything you said about the way he's speaking is so true. This particular section contains all of the elements described above.

This a verbatum transcription. His tone of voice is arrogant and angry.

The Fool on the Hill

That's how I see him now.

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Date: Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 13:47:39 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: I don't know how you did it, Cynthia
Message:
I have not been able to watch a video or listen to an audio tape for over a year. The last one I watched made me so angry that I don't want to feel that anger ever again. It doesn't do me any good. But one day I will also do some transcribing. I would like to see this dreadful, selfish, phony creep drown in his own words.
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Date: Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 14:10:48 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: The Fool on the Hill
Message:
Hi Pat,

It doesn't bother me in small doses. I find my self feeling incredulous at his pompousness and arrogance and start laughing. Did he really say that, oh my gawd! The gobblydegook is what's hard. Then I reach a point I stop and say enough for today. I type very fast at least 100wpm.

keep wanting one of those old foot pedal transcription machines that take large rather than mini-cassettes. I can set the speed and zoom on those. But now I just showed my age again, ah...my first job as a clerk typist was at an old Connecticut movie projector mfg. Kalart/Victor. My typewriter was electric, but the carriage swung back and forth. No correcting features, that was the wave of the future! And carbons. Wow.

I now see his game, how he uses words, how he speaks. Mean and manipulative.

Here's the words to:

The Fool on the Hill

Day after day, alone on a hill, the man with
foolish grin is standing perfectly still.
But nobody wants to know him, they can see
that he's just a fool as he never gives an answer
But the fool on the hill sees the sun going down
And the eyes in his head see the world
spinning round.

Well on his way, had in a cloud, the man of a
thousand voices talking perfectly loud
But nobody ever hears him or the sound he
appears to make and he never seems to notice
But the fool on the hill sees the sun going down
And the eyes in his head see the world
spinning round.

And round and round and round (and a few)
Da Da Da Da's

And nobody seems to like him they can tell what
he wants to do
And he never shows his feelings but the
Fool on the Hill
Sees the sun going down and the eyes in his
head see the world spinning round.

Lennon/McCartney, and whoever owns it
(maybe Michael Jackson or Enron?)

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Date: Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 08:09:31 (EST)
From: Maharaji channelling Maharaji
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Yeah, um, this mind, ya know
Message:
It's like this. Mind wants a wife, but that's not enough, mind then wants a child, and then another child, and then another child and then another child. Mind wants a fast car, and then another, and another and another, and another, and another, and ... [OK - we get the picture - Ed.]. Then mind wants a big house in Malibu, and another in Florida, and another in Surrey, and another in India, and another in Australia. Then mind wants a plane, and mind wants luxury fittings in the plane, but mind got it wrong, cos the plane can't fly in the US, so mind wants another plane, and then another, and then mind wants a helicopter. And then mind wants a yacht. And all along mind wants money, lots of money.

To me this is all an extension of mind, the way mind taps into him, the way mind taps.

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Date: Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 02:30:35 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: He's fucked up!
Message:
Maharaji was fucked up then, in 1976 and he's even more fucked up now. He doesn't even make sense, has no idea of what the premie is asking him and guess what? Has no real answers, obviously.

Not then and not now.

Pathetic.

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Date: Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 18:39:06 (EST)
From: PatD
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: You can say that again...
Message:
...reading that gibberish makes me want to kick my younger self for even trying to make sense of what he was saying.

Actually that little dialoug brought it all back. If I'd been there,& I was there at many other similar confrontations,I'd've been contemptuous of the questioner for having asked such a wimpy question & would have certainly laughed,along with all the other drones,at the answer.

It's only since EPO that I've understood the depths of devotion that very many felt for this monster of greed & selfishness.

It's obvious reading that now,that he knew we'd swallow any bullshit.
What he seems to be saying is,'how do you know the girl you want to marry won't turn out to be a transvestite'.

It's the fact that he's always taken the piss is the hardest thing to bear. He couldn't've been that incoherent when he was doing his FAA assessments (Joe's post below) or he'd've been canned. No, fuck the slaves,they're not worthy of a rational explanation.

Maybe he was just doing some good reefer in the company of his arselicker cronies,sorry,close devotees,when he came out with that.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 21, 2002 at 19:34:40 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Unitarian article--on topic
Message:
I get this Unitarian Universalist magazine (have no idea why, I don't go to church anymore, I withdrew my membership, it just comes in the mail). The magazine usually makes me nuts, but this issue had two really thought provoking articles. One was an article about a book by two feminist Methodist ministers about the violent theology of atonement. It talks about how the idea of a loving God making His son die on the cross as some kind of atonement for the sin of the world is a traumatic concept, an unhealed trauma in the Christian church. It suggests that violence is an okay way for a father or mother or other authority figure to treat someone, after all it's for 'their greater good.' I always believed that Christ's death was a violent act by some bad people, and could never get into this 'he died for our sins' stuff, this idea that God would ask that of Him. Anyway this is a very interesting article and I can dig out the name of the book if anyone is interested.
The authors say that Christians do all kinds of self-sacrificing stuff, hurtful stuff to themselves because of Christ's suffering, in the name of carrying the cross for Christ. Alot of times this kind of self sacrificing stuff is done by women to themselves to try to keep family peace or relationships together.These ministers who wrote the book are not anti-Christian or anti-Jesus at all, it's the crucifixion/lamb of God stuff they don't buy into, and I agree with them wholeheartedly.

I can extrapolate all kinds of stuff from this about premie hood. There was a strange kind of self sacrificing that went on in the premie world, wasn't there? And what was the carrot? It wasn't atonement, or was it, in some Hindu sense? I think it was the whole thing about the living Lord and being grateful for knowledge and that Maharaji 'saved' us from our pathetic little lives....this guilt-tripped us into all sorts of degrading service, all nighters, sacrifice of families, careers, etc. It was a theology of self-degradation, when you really think about it. I get so angry when I think about how people sacrificed their bodies and health upon the altar of M's supposed 'love.' This is the thing that makes me the angriest, I could really scream about this.

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Date: Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 07:09:46 (EST)
From: Bryn
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: Re: Unitarian article--on topic
Message:
I get your point. Self-sacrifice is something you couldn't accuse his holiness of though. My desire to self-sacrifice emust have been inbuilt, because I certainly never picked it up by example from him. Yet I remember certain other personalities who did, and revelled in the use of the freedom to indulge that the cult presented, but it was always done carefully and specifically- more an imitation of self indulgence than an actual choice to be un self-sacrificing. (I LOVE my coffee, I simply HAVE to go to the festival, I MUST have a suit like Raja Ji's etc.)

Its amazing that more of us didn't notice and imitate M's uncompromising and demanding atitudes and apply them to our selves. As I say i think my self effacing attitude was in built, it was somehow connected with my idealism that the planet was in a mess and needed helping.(no bad thing in itself) The deal was something like 'Well, I'll accept the great one's superiority because he protects me from the world. Out there, outside, I'M the great one thanks to him and I'LL show the world'. Always the feeling that my connection to him vindicated me in the world at large, so him-at-any-price was the rule.

To me he was the saviour of mankind I suppose, and I felt he needed my support.

Oh such a mess it was, such a mixture of things.

Love Bryn

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Date: Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 17:09:41 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Bryn
Subject: Re: Unitarian article--on topic
Message:
Bryn,
Lots of laughs--you are so right that M himself was not self-effacing and self-denying. But us premies certainly had that tendency to be that way or the dynamic wouldn't have worked. Good stuff, Bryn. Nice chatting with you
Helen
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Date: Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 01:18:41 (EST)
From: Mercedes
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: Re: Unitarian article--on topic
Message:
Thank you Hellen, I am really angry too whenever I think about the way in which this guy says we are a piece of shit, he constantly critizises premis and puts them down. I am working on getting rid of all that internalized opression caused by this guy's 'teachings'. BS, total BS.
Recovery from being in a cult is great and also painful, takes time to undo the harm.
Thanks for your thoughts, I'd like the name of the book too.
Mercedes
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Date: Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 17:14:31 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Mercedes
Subject: Re: Unitarian article--on topic
Message:
Hi Mercedes,
Yeah it takes a long time to unravel all the reasons why we were schnookered into such an unrewarding trip. I wish you all the best. Here is the name of the book:
Proverbs of Ashes: Violence, Redemptive suffering, and the search for what saves us by Rita Nakashima Brock and Rebecca Ann Parker. I bet you could do an internet search on it. It's published by Beacon House Press which publishes alot of Unitarian Universalist books.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 21, 2002 at 19:21:00 (EST)
From: Hi
Email: None
To: All
Subject: I'm watching you,....
Message:
Yes I am.
[ Graphic Link ]
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Date: Thurs, Feb 21, 2002 at 15:26:51 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: All
Subject: What the hell is going on??????
Message:
In a thread below I just -- apparently -- said to Cynthia:

This internet thing should has made a number of part cyber people.

Now this is crazy. What I meant to say was obviously:

This internet thing sure has made a number of us part cyber people.

I can understand omitting the 'us', that's just a simple typo, but how in the world did I type 'should' when I meant 'sure'? Likewise, I notice that I wrote 'here' instead of 'hear' in a post to Joe. But that's not quite so bad -- it's embarrassing a bit, sure (or should I say 'should'? -- no, make that 'or sure I say ... ???!!) -- but I can't for the life of me understand a mistake like that.

Look, tell me now, I can live with it, are there really such things as elves? Anything like that? How about short people? There ARE short people, I know... but elves? Somewhere? Anyone?

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Date: Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 16:26:35 (EST)
From: New-Age Redneck
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: NO, Jim, what you were going to say
Message:
What you were REALLY going to tell us was how marijuana affectas your short term memory..... :)
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Date: Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 16:19:14 (EST)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: You're getting old, Jim
Message:
The old noggin just ain't what it juice to be. Time to open that bottle of gingko biloba. It's been known to help you oldtimers with this problem you seam to have developed.
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Date: Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 16:57:48 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Hey now! How about some civility and respect? [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 18:44:14 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Quiet
Subject: You want credibility or not, Q?
Message:
Do you want people to accept you as who you say you are or not? If the answer's yes, consider how much or little such credibility you already have. What's your honest opinion, Q? I'd say that the fact that every time you say something someone calls you a troll would suggest that you don't have any credibility at all here. What's your opinion?

If you agree that you do want credibility but that you don't have any, ask yourself how you got in this situation to begin with and what you might do to fix it. There's no use blaming anyone else, as far as I can see. You started posting just like any other new person does but somehow, for one or more reasons, people think you're phony somehow. Why? And again, what can you do about it?

As things stand, the idea of an anonymous ex who refuses to offer the name of a single person he knows in the real world, who won't tell us anything about his life other than that he's supposedly an Aussie law student (although, despite the fact that he beats that horse to death he sure doesn't seem like a law student), who discloses nothing of his history or circumstances as a premie but who comes on with vague, grandiose plans of lawsuits this and lawsuits that but half the time doesn't seem to even take himself seriously isn't too impressive.

So, Q, it's up to you. If you want credibility, earn it. If you don't, quit whining about it. You might well be all that you say you are but it's only your own fault that no one believes you.

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Date: Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 01:50:47 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Quiet, if you want credibility you could
Message:
.......give me permission to post the emails you sent me so that people who trust me can see a bit more of you and that you did at least email me. May I post them?
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Date: Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 11:00:42 (EST)
From: Mr. Quiet, How many
Email: None
To: Quiet
Subject: personalities do you have? [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 13:48:22 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Mr. Quiet, How many
Subject: Since you did not answer my question, Quiet....
Message:
.....I'll take that as a YES and publish your emails. Thanks.
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Date: Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 14:44:27 (EST)
From: He answer no.
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: It was deleted. [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 17:50:35 (EST)
From: PatC, wondering what was in the emails
Email: None
To: He answer no.
Subject: he didn't want everyone to see/;) [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 12:01:34 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Quiet
Subject: What are you laughing about?
Message:
Listen, Q,

You've got nothing to laugh about. You've done very little, if anything, to establish any sort of credibility. Even if you are a law student. BFD! The fact that that happens to be true and only you know it doesn't make you better somehow, it just shows how ineffective you are at getting people to trust you. That should be a very useful trait, I'm sure, in your promising legal career.

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Date: Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 12:10:28 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Please don't feed the trolls
Message:
Hi Jim,

Had a great time in SF until Roger threw up red wine all over my white boa. You'da loved it.

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Date: Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 01:00:12 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: You had what I refer to as a......
Message:
Senior moment.

Tonette

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Date: Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 16:32:42 (EST)
From: New-Age Redneck
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: Now THAT was PC
Message:
Like the time a potential employer called me 'mature.' :)

Funny thing was, I had this mp3 recorder-thingy in my pocket and somehow the 'mature' guy (me) actually knew how to turn it on. Low and behold, it was recording at the time. Guess who won whe I challenged the CIO? he he he :)

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Date: Thurs, Feb 21, 2002 at 21:25:36 (EST)
From: mercedes
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Elves
Message:
Hi Jim,
I think those silly little elves are playing games here. Or maybe it was Elvis's spirit all you do is change a letter and bum! The king is here.
Mercedes
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Date: Thurs, Feb 21, 2002 at 15:54:04 (EST)
From: Barbara
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: My theory is...
Message:
that if you type fast (which I do), there's more of a tendency to type a word that sounds like what you want to say, even if it has nothing to do with the word you really want. I've caught myself doing it plenty of times. Just now, I typed 'coughed' instead of 'caught.' I think it's a combo of fast typing and the brain/mind running ahead thinking about what it wants to say, so it leaves the present in the dust while courting the future, even if it's just ten seconds in the future. I guess this is why it's important to proof what you write, but even then, things can get by the censor.

Speed kills.

+)

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Date: Thurs, Feb 21, 2002 at 15:56:43 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Barbara
Subject: You are Correct Barbara...
Message:
I type very fast too. It is a combo of fasty (my typo) typying (your typo) and brain/mind running ahead :)

Cynthia

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Date: Thurs, Feb 21, 2002 at 16:01:11 (EST)
From: Barbara
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Thank God for the Edit Feature, Cynth
Message:
I caught the typying typo and slid back in to fix it hoping, of course, no one caught it. You were too fasty.

+)

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Date: Thurs, Feb 21, 2002 at 17:36:25 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Barbara
Subject: Yessir
Message:
I also type fast, and I consider proofreading a waste of time, due to my impatient nature, sometimes with disastrous results. Fortunately, my secretary is of the old school and can spell anything, and also reads my mind.

I find I often switch articles, like typing 'not' instead of 'no' and 'of' instead of 'if' or even 'is,' and things like that. I think the brain is thinking of the subjects and concepts, and considers those little words kind of meaningless connectors. Anyhow, sometimes it ends up reading funny, that's for sure.

Barbara, I heard our friend Mr. Cooper has been let go from a certain media outlet in a certain big So. CAL city. Have you heard the same? I understand he just did an interview of Sal Landau that was a travesty.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 21, 2002 at 23:25:58 (EST)
From: Barbara
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: Yessir
Message:
I just returned home and was going to email you about Marc Cooper. I didn't know Marc was suspended, but I did hear the mutually vitriolic (ahem) interview with Sol Landau about the end of PNN...quite nasty, if I may say so. Kind of like the radio version of a Jerry Springer show, but since I was stuck in the usual monster traffic, I thoroughly enjoyed listening to them spew.

Pacifica's $4.5 mil in debt, so there's a big time fundraiser going on, and it seems they're now raking in the dough; I think a lot of people are coming out of the woodwork. Larry Bensky did a stint yesterday and it was good to hear him again, and I heard that Verna Avery Brown is now back.

Also, Marc C. previously castigated Amy Goodman for not doing any fundraising, but she's on now and doing a bang up job. And irony of ironies: Guess what time slot Amy's show is on now? Why, during Marc's old slot. He must be a crispy critter.

I was surprised too that Hackman didn't get nominated for Tennenbaums. The only nomination the Tennenbaums received, if I remember correctly, is for best screenplay by Wes Anderson and Owen Wilson. I really enjoyed that film. I did like Moulin Rouge for its incredible production values.

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Date: Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 12:50:41 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Barbara
Subject: Cooper/Saul Landau (OT)
Message:
I'm not completely sure Cooper has been suspended. But I emailed you Edward Herman's excellent response to Saul Landau's and Marc Cooper's infantile comments.

I think Bensky's Sunday program on KPFA, 'Sunday Salon' will be going national, as it was in the past before the Mary Frances Berry gang fired him. You have to credit people like Larry for the eventual success of the whole struggle.

PNN was being struck by most of the reporters and they fired Dan Couglin (who is, ironically, now the ED of Pacifica) and Verna Avery Brown, who both went to the dissident 'Free Speech Radio News'. Most of the afffiliate stations dropped PNN in favor of FSRN. KPFA ran both for awhile and then dropped PNN, which was becomming more conservative all the time.

Now, PNN has been shut down due to the debt, but FSRN is a lot better anyway and I hope KPFK begins to run it.

KPFA is fundraising now as well. I feel I can donate with a clear conscience now.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 21, 2002 at 15:33:24 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Known as gremlins in printing trade [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Feb 21, 2002 at 20:52:58 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: True typo story
Message:
When I designed GMJ's publications back in my youth, a typo appeared in And It Is Divine. The story was about Shri Maharaj Ji and the line should have read '... and the master passed by the river.' What actually was printed was '... and the master pissed by the river.' LOL

A good story that would be even better if I could recall if the typo made it to print or got caught in proofreading. We all had a good laugh about it anyway.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 21, 2002 at 23:38:28 (EST)
From: Barbara
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Another true typo story
Message:
Before I worked for litigators, I once helped some corporate lawyers prepare a public offering. We got everything ready to send to the printers, and just at the last minute, I noticed that the cover said 'pubic offering' instead of 'public offering.' Part of me wished the typo hadn't been caught.

+)

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Date: Thurs, Feb 21, 2002 at 15:30:21 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: What the hell is going on??????
Message:
Yup, apparently there are elves, Jim.

(I'm not sure you'd want to go there, though)
[ elf city ]

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Date: Thurs, Feb 21, 2002 at 15:36:15 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: What upsets me..... (OT)
Message:
Is Gene Hackman didn't get an Oscar nomination for the The Royal Tannenbaums, and neither did the movie, which I thought was brilliant and deserved it. Did anybody else think Moulin Rouge sucked big time? How did that get in? Something about the awful (over) acting and disco music in the 1890s (not to mention Elton John songs) kind of fouled that one for me. God, I hated that movie.

Did anybody see this great Australian flick (full of American actors, though) called 'Lantana?' Great film.

Anyhow, this thread is OT anyway, just thought I'd jump in. TA TA!

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Date: Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 19:13:37 (EST)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Moulin Rouge
Message:
Did anybody else think Moulin Rouge sucked big time?

Yes, in fact I think 9 out of 10 movies I see these days suck big time. In fact, I don't even go anymore I'm so sick of the crap that's being churned out. For awhile, in the early and mid nineties, there seemed to be a resurge in creativity in film with the explosion of top notch independent films. But even the independents are starting to be crap. It's a shame. I love great art and, right now, there's a dry spell of it in the film industry.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 21, 2002 at 21:35:42 (EST)
From: mercedes
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: also...(OT)
Message:
I loved Mullholland Drive. I got it after talking about it for a while excellent movie.
Mercedes
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Date: Thurs, Feb 21, 2002 at 20:48:10 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Loved Tennenbaums
Message:
I saw the film twice. Once by myself and a few days later with my dear wife. The first time was a lark and I thought I'd go along as an escort the second go around and sort of study the characters more carefully. I wasn't really expecting much but found I had fallen love with every single character. If the film had been a wee bit tighter, a Best Picture Oscar may have been possible. Hackman has a good chance with Best Actor.
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Date: Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 12:30:55 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Hackman didn't get nominated
Message:
That's what I was complaining about. He should have.
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Date: Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 13:12:48 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: Hackman didn't get nominated
Message:
Yes Joe I later noticed I totally missed your point but by then it was too late to edit my post. I agree he should have been nominated.

One of the most unusual characters was Eli, played by Owen Wilson who also co-wrote the story. He's in the lower left on this photo.
[ Tenenbaums ]

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Date: Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 13:21:43 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Yeah, the writing was great
Message:
The characters were amazing. Angelica Huston was wonderful, and I loved the way they threw in bizarre things that couldn't possibily exist in New York, like the 305th St. YMCA. And all the characters were sort of frozen in time, wearing clothes from the time they were child prodigies. Billy Murray and Danny Glover were also great.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 21, 2002 at 21:28:29 (EST)
From: mercedes
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Tennenbaums
Message:
They didn't quite do it for me, no seconds for this movie.
Mercedes
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Date: Thurs, Feb 21, 2002 at 19:18:48 (EST)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: What upsets me..... (OT)
Message:
I'll try to catch Lantana, I HAVE seen Monsters Inc., and Jimmie Nuetron. My wife is the one that gets to see all the movies.
We have a 1920's theater nearby and I go there. They however play mostly the kid movies and Spy Kids is another example. You would like the theater, a real throwback.
Moulin Rouge looked unappealing just from the mtv video put out by that singer.

I thought Jim's mistakes were wine influenced!
I would have never thought he malfunctions oh, what is that term again? Random. I guess Murphy randomly selects, or engages in random selection and just disrupts.

I would like the secretary or clerk of the court to post some highlights of Jim's courtroom typo bloopers.
Instead of 'my client should get off...', it becomes 'My client shouldnt get off based on the merits of the case'

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Date: Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 11:25:43 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: Anyone see 'Requiem for a Dream'? OT
Message:
Talk about good movies for kids. Anyone seen it? We did last night. Ellen Burstyn, Jared Leto, Jennifer Connelly and Marlon Wayans are all fantastic. This movie definitely picks up where 'Legally Blonde' left off. Now, at last, we can learn the rest of the story.
[ Requiem for a Dream ]
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Date: Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 19:21:23 (EST)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: That wasn't so good
Message:
It was a dated film, Jim, that had the feel of an early 90s black comedy. There was nothing original about it, strictly an excercise in capitalizing on a winning formula, but then, that's Hollywood for you.
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Date: Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 03:15:30 (EST)
From: Barbara
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Thank god for foreign flix
Message:
Many, if not most, American films are written by committee, with final draft approved by a panel of 15 year olds. This is no exaggeration.
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Date: Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 18:28:03 (EST)
From: bill--quite a review!
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: ''the absolute depths of despair and destruction''
Message:
the absolute depths of despair and self-destruction then you must watch Requiem For a Dream.
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Date: Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 15:30:45 (EST)
From: Barbara
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: If Only Ellen Burstyn ... OT
Message:
had thrown away that red dress. I know I've never looked at a Bic lighter the same way again.

:)

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Date: Thurs, Feb 21, 2002 at 15:47:14 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: I'm a crispy critter right now (OT)
Message:
I don't have a movie theatre within 30 miles so I wait until the videos come out.

As far as typos are concerned, as an old crone from the business field: never proofread your own stuff. You'll always miss something! It never fails, or I should say proofreading your own stuff always fails--never mind.

Cynthia, fading out...time to feed the cat and fishes

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