Chris -:- Happy New Year - I'm unrecruiting... -:- Tues, Jan 01, 2002 at 17:08:59 (EST)

__ Jim -:- Hi Chris -:- Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 16:42:35 (EST)

__ Doug -:- Re: Happy New Year - I'm unrecruiting... -:- Thurs, Jan 03, 2002 at 14:35:16 (EST)

__ __ Cynthia -:- Well, Doug then, a Hearty Welcom to You... -:- Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 17:47:09 (EST)

__ __ Chris -:- To Doug: -:- Thurs, Jan 03, 2002 at 22:08:37 (EST)

__ Brian Smith -:- Thanks and Welcome -:- Thurs, Jan 03, 2002 at 03:47:50 (EST)

__ __ Chris -:- Thanks Brian -:- Thurs, Jan 03, 2002 at 22:14:16 (EST)

__ __ __ Brian Smith -:- Clearly stated Chris -:- Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 05:04:53 (EST)

__ Marianne -:- Happy cult free New Year, Chris -:- Thurs, Jan 03, 2002 at 01:55:37 (EST)

__ __ Chris -:- Thanks/Few comments... -:- Thurs, Jan 03, 2002 at 22:36:35 (EST)

__ __ Vicki -:- Premies as walking advertisements -:- Thurs, Jan 03, 2002 at 03:35:49 (EST)

__ __ __ Chris -:- Re: Premies as walking advertisements -:- Thurs, Jan 03, 2002 at 22:44:14 (EST)

__ __ __ __ Vicki -:- Re: Premies as walking advertisements -:- Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 01:27:39 (EST)

__ __ __ Tonette -:- What's with Maroyln? -:- Thurs, Jan 03, 2002 at 04:30:13 (EST)

__ __ __ __ Who knows? -:- What's with Marolyn? -:- Thurs, Jan 03, 2002 at 14:05:03 (EST)

__ __ __ __ The Maharaji of Malibu's -:- wife is GUILTY, Too -:- Thurs, Jan 03, 2002 at 05:55:35 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ hamzen -:- She's known he couldn't keep his trousers up -:- Thurs, Jan 03, 2002 at 13:47:24 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Tonette -:- to all three of you, yes, my take too -:- Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 01:06:06 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- HEY Tonette... -:- Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 17:42:29 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Tonette -:- Hello to you too! ot -:- Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 23:05:29 (EST)

__ Inside Edition -:- Thanks, Chris -:- Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 17:28:02 (EST)

__ Francesca :~) -:- Welcome! -:- Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 13:43:08 (EST)

__ __ Chris -:- Hi Francesca -:- Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 17:02:49 (EST)

__ __ __ JohnT -:- R2 -:- Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 13:30:37 (EST)

__ Tonette -:- Worst post Ever! Go find a chat room or something! -:- Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 00:24:40 (EST)

__ __ Chris -:- Hi Tonette -:- Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 17:08:05 (EST)

__ __ __ Tonette -:- Hi back to you. Welcome to the forum. nt -:- Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 02:42:56 (EST)

__ Richard -:- Welcome Chris -:- Tues, Jan 01, 2002 at 22:56:23 (EST)

__ Joe -:- Hello Chris -:- Tues, Jan 01, 2002 at 21:50:01 (EST)

__ __ Mercedes -:- Re: Hello Joe -:- Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 20:13:51 (EST)

__ __ __ Nige -:- The above thread post is NOT mine... -:- Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 21:01:48 (EST)

__ __ hgjgjh -:- Repost (corrupted forum indec) -:- Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 19:28:03 (EST)

__ __ Chris -:- KIT - active recruitment -:- Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 11:27:57 (EST)

__ __ __ PatC -:- KIT - active recruitment - holy cow! -:- Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 13:49:36 (EST)

__ __ __ Cynthia -:- Hi Chris... -:- Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 13:48:41 (EST)

__ __ __ __ Chris -:- Hi Cynthia! -:- Thurs, Jan 03, 2002 at 22:56:40 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Re: Hi Chris... -:- Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 17:56:17 (EST)

__ __ __ Francesca -:- ***BEST OF FORUM** whole thread! [nt] -:- Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 13:45:28 (EST)

__ __ __ Joe -:- Excellent, Chris, thanks/questions -:- Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 12:31:48 (EST)

__ __ __ __ Disculta -:- Amazing, Joe -:- Thurs, Jan 03, 2002 at 19:34:29 (EST)

__ __ __ __ Chris -:- I've no doubts left - this a cult! -:- Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 16:51:43 (EST)

__ __ Chris -:- Hi y'all and thanks.. -:- Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 10:20:58 (EST)

__ __ __ Disculta -:- Re: Hi y'all and thanks.. -:- Thurs, Jan 03, 2002 at 19:38:56 (EST)

__ __ __ __ Chris -:- Aye - disculted... -:- Thurs, Jan 03, 2002 at 23:06:19 (EST)

__ New-Age Redneck -:- Re: Happy New Year - I'm unrecruiting... -:- Tues, Jan 01, 2002 at 20:07:33 (EST)

__ __ Chris -:- Annex to Redneck... -:- Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 10:26:38 (EST)

__ __ Chris -:- Hi New Age Red Neck! -:- Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 09:38:47 (EST)

__ PatC -:- Welcome, Chris -:- Tues, Jan 01, 2002 at 17:34:39 (EST)

__ __ Jim S. -:- Re: Welcome, Chris -:- Tues, Jan 01, 2002 at 17:57:15 (EST)

Date: Tues, Jan 01, 2002 at 17:08:59 (EST) From: Chris Email: None To: All Subject: Happy New Year - I'm unrecruiting... Message:

Well said, Lil’ Darlin and Doug. I 'hear' you - it’s always nice to read sincere, personal stories such as yours. To you, and everyone on Forum, I hope the new year treats you well and you’re ‘enjoying your existence’ without the speaker and the group’s stifling, soulless activities. I, too, am a recent ex who has ‘fallen out of love with MJ’ and finally seen through the cult dynamics I’ve been grappling with for two and a half decades. I was also a previous ashram resident, but left in the early 80’s in Canada. Amidst everyone else’s surrendering their lives to MJ, I wanted my own life back. I wanted to be able to make my own decisions, to be free to pursue my own interests and hobbies, and to form relationships should I fall in love. This I’ve done since my ashram years, and have enjoyed practising K while living a more fulfilling, rounded life of my own - with all its pleasures and pains, gains and losses, bittersweetly unique to me. Myself, whenever I do have a meditation unclogged by thoughts or sleepiness, I like the stillness, purity and ‘answers’ I get from it. Many times I’ve felt the ‘eternity-in-the-moment’, that’s unaffected by anyone or anything - including MJ & EV! But for me, I no longer have any tolerance for personality idolization and ultimately, cult dynamics was the reason I walked. The turning point for me was the Knowledge Information Training Session held last year which blatantly crossed the line into making us programmed idiots to sell K. without looking or sounding like we’re selling K. It emphasized teamwork and denounced independent thinking and decision-making, giving frequent reminders to never forget, of course, who the real boss is that we’re doing service for. If there was a question you didn’t have an immediate answer to, the instruction was to give them a video of MJ talking about the subject. Duh, wow, brilliant.... now if I only had the time to find the right video...... (As you probably already know, the KIT was an offspring of MJ’s presentation in Atlanta a year ago on the importance of teamwork and how to talk about and introduce K effectively to newcomers. The KITs were hosted by each city’s Knowledge Introduction Steering Committee, whose task was to draw up and implement a ‘Knowledge Introduction Plan’. These plans clearly show that this is active recruitment, which discredits EV’s FAQ statement that EV is not a cult involved in active recruiting of members, as each committee picked a yearly goal number of (say 300) people to introduce to Knowledge.) I decided it was high time I educated myself on cult dynamics and group mind control - there are some good books out there on cult exiting, and I’m still learning all I can. It’s interesting how people inside a cult will deny to the teeth that they’re in a cult. I know I was like that. When I first received K, I remember my dad saying to my brothers that he figured I would outgrow it in about 10 years. Rest his soul, if he (and I) only knew it would actually take me 27 years! Again, warm wishes to you, Lil Darlin, and everyone for a happy new year. Also, just want to say I’m thankful also to be able to read all the discussions and sharing here, diverse as they may be - hey, just like real life... Sincerely, Chris, Cheers from Canada (Another recent ex) PS: Go easy on me, please - this is my first post ever :)

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Date: Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 16:42:35 (EST) From: Jim Email: None To: Chris Subject: Hi Chris Message:

Hey Chris, Great post, congratulations and do we know each other? Where are you? If you like, email me: jimheller@shaw.ca

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Date: Thurs, Jan 03, 2002 at 14:35:16 (EST) From: Doug Email: None To: Chris Subject: Re: Happy New Year - I'm unrecruiting... Message:

Welcome, Chris. I beat you here by one day. We'll be the class of '02. Doug

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Date: Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 17:47:09 (EST) From: Cynthia Email: None To: Doug Subject: Well, Doug then, a Hearty Welcom to You... Message:

Hi Doug, I'm Cynthia J. Gracie from Vermont, USA. I'm so happy to see you and Chris here with energy and humor and resolve. This is a very fun, intense, serious, and educational forum, and I welcome you from the bottom of my heart. I'm originally from Connecticut. I got k in New Haven, but lived in Hartford during my first years as a premie. I also went to Miami for the infamous Deca project, was transferred to Gainesville ashram, then I left, in Jan. 1981. I spent 16 years away from the cult, but after a brief attempt at going back in 1997 (I think, my adled brain has a hard time with dates), I found EPO, and became an ex-premie. You will find so much love and support and confrontation on this forum. GET ready! You both are brave, a lot of premies who are now exes are afraid to post here. I'm glad you took the plunge... I hope to get to know you both--your energy is, well, energizing! Best, Cynthia

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Date: Thurs, Jan 03, 2002 at 22:08:37 (EST) From: Chris Email: None To: Doug Subject: To Doug: Message:

All right! Liked your picture - reminds me of the last programs I've attended - felt more and more as if black walls are closing in and crumbling down.... there's really not much left, eh? Looking forward to sharing with you here, Doug. Happy sailing... Chris

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Date: Thurs, Jan 03, 2002 at 03:47:50 (EST) From: Brian Smith Email: None To: Chris Subject: Thanks and Welcome Message:

I exited about a year ago myself and I just want to thank you for your forthright and informative accounting of your exit story this past year. I missed the KIT stuff, and from how you have described it I am sure that would have been the last drip for me had I not found EPO and the forum first. It all comes down to personality worship, condoned by the boss, pretending like he is not, mixed messages and myth's an entire dysfunctional relationship based on secrets and lies pawned off as the highest experience one can have in life. What a crock of crap, 29 years I spent stirring this caldren of cult fantasy consciousness thinking that I was really on to a special truth. When I finally poured it out and looked at it, it was everything that I thought I had came into the cult to avoid. Concepts, illusions, beliefs, secrets, rituals, gmj worship, ego tripping church lady ladder climbers just another religion. No truth, the love long since gone. I don't think you will find many going hard on you here Chris, you seem to be way ahead of the exit curve already. I showed up here my first time as a practicing premie posting apologist cult drivel, I went from 0 to 60 over hard road on the forum for a short while before I woke up to what was really going on with GMJ and the cult. Even so, if someone here doesn't always agree with you it is not the worst thing that can happen to you. I still say thanks to those who did not let me off easy and made me face up to my own inauthentic barriers and to the reality of being in a cult and doing something about it. I look forward to hearing more from you Chris, thanks for posting and Happy New Year

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Date: Thurs, Jan 03, 2002 at 22:14:16 (EST) From: Chris Email: None To: Brian Smith Subject: Thanks Brian Message:

Nice to hear from you - and thanks for sharing that. My case is similar to yours in that I’m seeing things as many different shades of grey, rather than black and white. It looks like I may never reach my own final verdict as to is he or isn’t he. Even if he IS (unlikely, but possible), then he’s one who’s never grown up into normal adulthood. But I could go to my grave digging through all the facts for that one last solid hard evidence. And all the ‘by his fruits you will know him’ and the ‘let your own heart be the judge’ lines (which of course, say nothing either way) - for me they’re just NOT GOOD ENOUGH any more. And you know what, I don’t really even care any more if he is or isn’t. I do have enough memory cells left to remember how to meditate on my own whenever I feel the urge to drink. I don’t need more nice reminders - repetitive indoctrination - thank you very much. That’s the only thing it was ever for anyway - me, myself, my own benefit. That’s my own ‘shred of truth amidst gallons of salt’ that I’m walking away with. As for doing service for him - hey, he’s a 44 yr. old man - time for him to learn how to do his own shopping and take care of his own matters. I have my own life to pursue. My own emotional response to finally seeing through the cult dynamics is - ‘holy mackerel, amazing’ - like coming to the end of a story with an incredible twist - something that’s the last thing you would ever anticipate or guess yourself, yet very obvious. So, I’ve been devouring all the information I can on cult exit processing. Right now, I’m in the middle of compiling a chronological calendar of all the events significant to me, places I’ve lived, and all the ‘uncomfortable grating’ moments I’ve been through during my involvement. So thanks again for your message, Brian Cheers to you, Chris

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Date: Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 05:04:53 (EST) From: Brian Smith Email: None To: Chris Subject: Clearly stated Chris Message:

Through the shadowy shades of grey the one conclusion about m that I have come to is this. We are all capable of the same realizations, we hold the same capacity for experience as GMJ or any other person or teacher does for knowing personal fullfillment. M particularly has nothing over us as to what he can reveal or impart within ourselves that we do not already have access to by our own means if we choose. GMJ does not hold the keys to the kingdom, in fact he impedes the way of real spiritual progress which ultimately becomes an individual and personal experience and cannot include a diety attachment. I like your chronological review and taking inventory of your past significant cult experiences. Be prepared for many zingers and bells to go off, you will see in hindsight many drips that you avoided the first time around. After I exited I took some time, reviewed my priority's, and my past cult involvement. Then I concentrated on my own experience validated myself, and laid claim to my own soul and my own understandings. I am not saying that my understanding or experience should be yours, but reclaiming my self will was a big step in my personal recovery and I am much the more happy and content with myself than I ever was emotionally enslaved to m and the cult. I guess we are finally growing up, and out of the Tooth Fairy, Peter Pan, Santa Claus and Perfect Master Fantasys. At 54 and 57 we still may have some time to reconcile ourselves without going to our graves waiting for the big boss to deliver us (according to him) our undeserved salvation. The incredible twist of fate is that we are having this conversation in the first place after being imbedded in the cult for so long. We are finally getting clearer about ourselves and are freer now more than ever before to pursue whatever other options we please. Pretty incredible don't you think Chris? after all it is a huge world full of immense possibilies. Thanks for your response Chris, Cheers Brian

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Date: Thurs, Jan 03, 2002 at 01:55:37 (EST) From: Marianne Email: MarianneDB@aol.com To: Chris Subject: Happy cult free New Year, Chris Message:

Greetings Chris, and welcome. Thank you for your posts, especially the information about the training seminars. It is always fascinating to learn what new charade the cult is trying to employ in order to ensnare the unsuspecting in its clutches. Jumping into the forum is an emotionally risky business, but so is most of life. Being a committed, insulting and vicious cult apologist is what gets folks angry around here, and what draws nasty retorts. Working out your exit from the cult, and the ramifications in your life, in your posts will draw lots of compassion and understanding. It is a different and unique process for each of us. We're here to help, not to hurt. I hope that you and the other new folks who have just arrived -- Doug, Boudaciea, and others -- will write and post your Journeys. We can learn a lot from you. Congratulations on your new found freedom. Much love, Marianne

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Date: Thurs, Jan 03, 2002 at 22:36:35 (EST) From: Chris Email: None To: Marianne Subject: Thanks/Few comments... Message:

Hi and thank you, 'It is always fascinating to learn what new charade the cult is trying to employ in order to ensnare the unsuspecting in its clutches.' - Yes Marianne - it’s amazing how they’re still trying to catch flies in mid-air with, I think, maybe only one arm left. Namely, inviting the speaker to come speak in the north country, but the secondhand-clothed church ladies have to buy him some fur-lined polar gear first. (He’s 44 years old - high time for him to learn how to do his own shopping. And of course he won’t come - he hates the cold.) And 2nd-namely, sending letters to all the old premies who ever lived in and moved on from the community advising them of the ‘resources currently available for them to enjoy the speaker’s message' (re-recruiting from within) 'It is a different and unique process for each of us. We're here to help, not to hurt.' - Thanks. I certainly appreciate any tips, advice, etc. on the cult exiting process. Are there any exercises I should be engaging? Any other books on the subject you could recommend? (I’ve just finished Steven Hassan’s book, but it only touches on cult exiting process itself.) What would be my next step in the exiting process? I do have some ‘drips’ and occasional uncomfortable, grating moments (like a vortex in a warp bubble) to share/get off my chest. At least I can LOL to myself about some of them, and feel sad by the rest. But these I’d rather share with someone I can trust off-line (via email maybe), as I’m writing under an alias now. Perhaps I could email you my email address? So definitely count me in as one more exiter, thanks to EPO's reports of all the behind the scenes activities. It would take someone who has been close to MJ, seen the act behind the stage, left and passed on what they saw - as it certainly isn't everyday communications within the cult. There is one thing I want to note, if I may, while it’s still fresh on my mind (yikes, here come the pounces) :) I’ll try to explain as best I can the first initial reaction I had to reading the heading ‘Ex-Lord of the Universe’ on the opening page of EPO. I, also, had the initial flashing thought of 'he’s not known as that anymore, they’re out of touch and standing on decade-old observations' which is discreditive and dissuading and can shed an irrelevant light on anything that follows. Luckily for myself, the major drip I had just encountered (the impulse behind my first venturing to open up the page) was sufficiently strong enough to sit me through that initial flash and keep reading on. And my drip WAS very strong. It’s dealing with the mechanics of a first-time questioning session for an inside-culter - cult dynamics experts will tell you it’s a very sensitive time. For inside-culters, the term ‘lord of the universe’ is a no-no, politically incorrect, even though the current actions remain as if the ‘understanding’ of who he is is unchanged. Of course, outsiders see past this - it’s SO cultish and so in dire need of re-examining. I think outsiders don’t understand that insiders don’t quite see past this mindset yet. The initial phase of a deprogramming process is a crucial moment. To an insider, reading EPO is like taking a bite of something they’re programmed to believe is poison - it’s a daring move, and hence it’s SO easy to be dissuaded at that point. One step too far/fast or one shove of the spoon too far down the mouth (so to speak) can easily send them scurrying back inside the cult. So an outsider waving the old scoffing flag of ‘ex-lord of the universe’ can be too confronting, too fast down the throat for that crucial initial contact. My thinking is probably all flawed and synapse-crossed, but some understanding is needed of cult deprogramming stages, I think...... 'Congratulations on your new found freedom. Much love, Marianne' Thanks. It took a bit for me to finally post here, but I’m now glad I have. ‘Chris’

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Date: Thurs, Jan 03, 2002 at 03:35:49 (EST) From: Vicki Email: None To: Marianne Subject: Premies as walking advertisements Message:

Chris, so glad you are here and posting. It's insightful stuff you've brought us. I received knowledge in '74 and stayed with it until a few months back when I landed here. One thing I distinctly recall is Maharaji saying that we were his advertisements, and that's why he didn't take out bona fide ads or billboards, etc etc etc. It wasn't until recently that I figured out for myself why he chose this route of bringing in new customers. There's no liability. He can't be sued for false advertising. He's not accountable to any legal entity as long as he keeps his house of tax free status in order. But he needs it to run like a real advertising operation, therefore we became stepford premies, programmed with Elan Vital answers that came straight from the horse's mouth. I remember Marilyn saying it was so beautiful that Maharaji was letting us do propogation, that we couldn't even understand what a gift it was. I could never get my brain around that one. Now I know why. We were being used then as the premies are being used now. It has nothing to do with compassion in sharing knowledge with the world. And if we were all so inept, then how come the numbers back then beat the numbers now in people receiving knowledge? And how did he get all the millions of dollars then that he can't seem to get now? If I was Michael Nouri, I would pray the Star or Enquirer never came to see the Kit video. That would be the end of what little career the talented guy has.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 03, 2002 at 22:44:14 (EST) From: Chris Email: None To: Vicki Subject: Re: Premies as walking advertisements Message:

Thanks for your comments, Vicki - happy new year to you. 'It wasn't until recently that I figured out for myself why he chose this route of bringing in new customers. There's no liability. He can't be sued for false advertising. He's not accountable to any legal entity as long as he keeps his house of tax free status in order.' - Thanks Vicki. Some major aha’s just flashed in my brain with that. There’s something I’d like to share on that, but if I did here it might blow my alias. Can I email you? Cheers, Chris

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Date: Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 01:27:39 (EST) From: Vicki Email: None To: Chris Subject: Re: Premies as walking advertisements Message:

Sure, please, do you have my e-mail? It's MercyGirl_@hotmail.com

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Date: Thurs, Jan 03, 2002 at 04:30:13 (EST) From: Tonette Email: None To: Vicki Subject: What's with Maroyln? Message:

'It's so beautiful M is letting us do propagation, we don't even know what a gift it is.' Yep, that sounds like something she would say allright. Of all the people on the planet, she has by now had a full exposure to decit and first hand observation of some really deplorable behavior that I wonder how is she able to continue to play the game and remain sane. Is she no longer lucid or do you think she's part of the con? Just wondering. Tonette

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Date: Thurs, Jan 03, 2002 at 14:05:03 (EST) From: Who knows? Email: None To: Tonette Subject: What's with Marolyn? Message:

It's probably a whole bunch of motivations. 1. Programming, and belief, to a certain extent; 2. Maharaji apparently threatened to keep her away from her kids if she ever left him 3. She has a good thing going lifestyle-wise and money-wise 4. There are the kids 5. She sees herself fulfilling a role 6. She knows M is very flawed, but she still thinks that knowledge is worthwhile.....(this is a rationale of a lot of premies -- they know Maharaji is a jerk in a lot of ways, but feel that should be overlooked in relation to the supposed 'good' he does).

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Date: Thurs, Jan 03, 2002 at 05:55:35 (EST) From: The Maharaji of Malibu's Email: None To: Tonette Subject: wife is GUILTY, Too Message:

Somewhere on EPO is a letter from her to a friend. In the letter, she tells the friend to practice K and ignore the fact she was abused by an instructor. You know, 'surrender to M'. Twice in the letter she points out that the letter is to be kept secret. She also uses her recent physical problem as an excuse as in, 'don't bug me with your small problem'. This is very deceitful and brings her right into the conspiracy. The only remaining question is WHEN she knew chubby hubby was a con.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 03, 2002 at 13:47:24 (EST) From: hamzen Email: None To: The Maharaji of Malibu's Subject: She's known he couldn't keep his trousers up Message:

for 20 years, and was shagging her chauffeur 20 years ago. Hardly the act of someone married to the Keeper of the Highest Secret.

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Date: Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 01:06:06 (EST) From: Tonette Email: None To: hamzen Subject: to all three of you, yes, my take too Message:

Another victim but I don't credit her with being anything close to moral or ethical for that matter. Just a hedonistic bitch, in love with herself and her unearned fame, addicted to her lifestyle and to hell with the Premies and their children. 'Oh one of my husband's instructors raped a child,' well, fiddle dee dee, not my problem. I'm not going to do anything. 'Oh a bunch of my husband's devotees asking for some sort of restitution after their involvement with knowledge,' well fiddle dee dee, they can go to hell. They're not getting any of my clothing allowance! Not any of my wealth. And I'm so busy getting my nails and hair done, I don't possibly have the time to attend to any of these problems! I've raised four worthless children who have never given anything to anyone, besides they are such a worry. Completely dependant on my husbands agenda, for their lively hood and existence. Somehow these children are completly emeshed in the Knowledge cult. Why should I do anything that would dismantle that, however wrong it is. Yes, I helped build it, and I spent my most of my life propagating it, why should I take a closer look at what really is. There's nothing wrong is there? Marolyn, what a piece of work you have become. But no, I don't feel sorry for you Marolyn because you do have the power to right many, many, wrongs. You can still write a check can't you? How about writing one to Abby for let's say, 1,500,000.00 dollars for starters. Sell some of your jewelry if you have to. Tonette

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Date: Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 17:42:29 (EST) From: Cynthia Email: None To: Tonette Subject: HEY Tonette... Message:

How are you? Glad to see you back and feisty as ever. I have put much thought into Marolyn, a/k/a, Durga Ji, Mom, Wife of the Lord. She was an adult when she married maharaji. I cannot believe that she is just a total cult victim. No. She benefits quite a lot from the guru business. I can only speculate about any pre or post nuptual agreements they may or may not have, but I think she's tied to the whole thing through: 1. Cult confusion; 2. Addiction to greed; 3. The mess her children are, and the possible loss of contact with all or any or her kids; 4. She does exhibit the ''goddess'' attitude and has become used to a life of oppulence, as well as being in the #2 position regardless of the mistress Monica; 5. She may be suffering from battered woman syndrome (which includes the psychological mindset of a battered woman, whether or not he's ever beaten her. It is most likely a major mind-fuck). However, she has every resource at her disposal to leave. She must have access to funds to escape her situation, it's a matter of her choice; and 6. Maybe she is simply a very shallow person who likes to live high on the hog at the expense of a cult business. As you said above, Marolyn Rawat is quite a piece of work. Great to have you back, Love, Cynthia

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Date: Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 23:05:29 (EST) From: Tonette Email: None To: Cynthia Subject: Hello to you too! ot Message:

I'm back for now with a little bit of trepidation, that is, with posting on the forum. I am so impatient and take the forum as such as important factor in helping to bring Maharaji down and to justice, that I know my vunerability here is great. I need an extra skin layer or something. Cynthia, I want to see Maharaji pay for all of the damage he has done. I want it done yesterday! So, I read here and sometimes will post, but what I am really doing is following the evolution of his cult finally taking it's last gasping breaths and witnessing Maharaji making restitution to everyone he hurt. Me, do I want anything? No, not really. Just for it to be over. And I do want M to pay it all back. Take care and it's good to know that I have a forum friend, as I am to you. Love, Tonette

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Date: Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 17:28:02 (EST) From: Inside Edition Email: None To: Chris Subject: Thanks, Chris Message:

Dear Chris, It takes a lot of courage to post here for the first time, but it sure feels great to regain your freedom from the cult. Cult dynamics did it for me too, with massive help from EPO and all the brave folks who helped put the puzzle together. Going from 'Knowlege of God' to 'Knowledge of Fraud' is quite tramatic, but certainly survivable. Especially when you realize that you are not alone! Thanks very much for sharing the KIT information. It made me feel like taking a shower! Look forward to your future posts. Inside Edition

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Date: Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 13:43:08 (EST) From: Francesca :~) Email: None To: Chris Subject: Welcome! Message:

Why wouldn't I go easy! You certainly didn't wave any red capes. A warm welcome to you and thanks for your input. The input of people leaving the cult recently is valuable; you will see there are many of you. Although the naysayers always beat the old mantra that 'the information on the Forum is 20 years old,' you and many others make that argument absurd on its face. If I had the time, I'd collect a bunch of posts like yours just to shut them up. But why waste energy responding to a useless argument that has no basis in fact. The naysayers would like me to waste my energy on straw men. After all, we had a straw guru, with feet of clay! Bests, Francesca

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Date: Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 17:02:49 (EST) From: Chris Email: None To: Francesca :~) Subject: Hi Francesca Message:

To the naysayers - of course, they don't like this - they're terrified of it - the disease of inside cult members. About a week ago there was a post from the troll, R2, with his 10 reasons of why we're doing this. I almost jumped in at that point with the response 'Sorry, but you're wrong on all counts in my case. Cult dynamics was the reason I walked. Let me give you an example - and then tell him all about the KIT.' I thought it would kill a few birds with one stone :) Looking forward to sharing more with you, Francesca..... Chris

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Date: Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 13:30:37 (EST) From: JohnT Email: None To: Chris Subject: R2 Message:

Hi Chris, Congratulations. I was hoping you were a premie Chris I know, but I doubt we've ever met. I've had one or two long exchanges with R2. He is certainly deeply enmeshed in the cult, to the point where it has damaged his ability to reason about the world and even to understand what real means. I am not so sure he is an outright troll tho. He was not rude and abusive (well, no more than I was!). Instead, he seemed genuinely unable to think straight as far as the cult is concerned. Some people do get a real buzz from the techniques, even as mistaught by Rawat. I think R2 may well be like that, and has swallowed far too much of the bullshit as a result. If cultists keep coming here as themselves they always seem to be able to free themselves in the end. Why else would a premie post here? I hope Richard the Second (R2) keeps coming here. JohnT - never a premie

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Date: Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 00:24:40 (EST) From: Tonette Email: None To: Chris Subject: Worst post Ever! Go find a chat room or something! Message:

This is a joke obviously. I still get extremely nervous posting. Welcome. Yes, the forum at times can be interesting and fun. I exited in the eighties which kinda coincided with the birth of my first child. Good luck and Happy New Year to you too! Tonette

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Date: Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 17:08:05 (EST) From: Chris Email: None To: Tonette Subject: Hi Tonette Message:

Hi Tonette, I liked your joke :) - especially your suggestion to go find a CHAT room somewhere. Thanks. That would be cute - That would truly be Knowledge Introduction ! :)

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Date: Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 02:42:56 (EST) From: Tonette Email: None To: Chris Subject: Hi back to you. Welcome to the forum. nt Message:

nt

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Date: Tues, Jan 01, 2002 at 22:56:23 (EST) From: Richard Email: None To: Chris Subject: Welcome Chris Message:

Thank you for your heartfelt post. Your comments, along with those of Lil Darlin and Doug below, make the forum the rich and varied place it is. I'm glad you felt comfortable sharing your story. I agree that unattributed meditations you call the eternity-in-the-momentare wonderful. All the best, Richard

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Date: Tues, Jan 01, 2002 at 21:50:01 (EST) From: Joe Email: None To: Chris Subject: Hello Chris Message:

It sounds like you are doing well. It's always great to hear about people who look closely at what is going on and can get out of the cult mindset. I know I would have never thought I was ever in a cult either, but that's exactly what it is. I'm sure people in those trainings have to do lots of logical and ethical backflips to be able to deal with the dissonance. I'm also quite certain that none of that 'teamwork' crap will ever work in 'spreading knowledge,' and nor will learning how to deceitfully market it. People are just too smart for that, or at least most people are. I would love to hear more about those trainings. Someone gave me a video of the Atlanta presentation you mention, but I haven't had the stomach to watch it yet. I have to get ready for that, and not have anything close by that I might just throw at the TV screen. :) All the best, there are lots of people to give you support here, although you seem to be doing very well all by yourself. Do you know any other premies who are questioning? All the best, Joe

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Date: Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 20:13:51 (EST) From: Mercedes Email: None To: Joe Subject: Re: Hello Joe Message:

Hi Joe, Watching the video of the Atlanta training started the dripping for me, you'll probably feel like hurling something at the screen. He sounds disrespecful and so conceited it was disgusting for me at the time. Mercedes

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Date: Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 21:01:48 (EST) From: Nige Email: None To: Mercedes Subject: The above thread post is NOT mine... Message:

Something has screwed up re. the forum index. I have reposted approximately what I wrote and linked to lower down this thread. (Sorry, Mercedes - I didn't mean to hijack your train of thought. But every time I try and point out the above disappearing posts/forum index problem, it seems to appear in the above thread instead of this one. So I am doing it here in a reply post...and we'll see what happens...?)

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Date: Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 19:28:03 (EST) From: hgjgjh Email: None To: Joe Subject: Repost (corrupted forum indec) Message:

jgjshg

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Date: Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 11:27:57 (EST) From: Chris Email: None To: Joe Subject: KIT - active recruitment Message:

Thanks Joe. I don't seem to be viewing my exiting as a tragic thing, really - just glad I'm finally alerted and wisened up. I'm thankful to people like Dettmers, Macgregor and Mishler for their EPO posts alerting us outfield players of the behind-the-scenes facts, given that news such as that is not exactly splashed across the EV Newsletter's front page... It's SO-O cultish. Yes, the KIT was the last straw for me. My personal opinion is it should be illegal. (At the very least, it was a total waste of one of my weekends.) The material used in the session was the roughly 90-min. DVD/video from MJ's Atlanta session, and follow-up group exercises that emphasized teamwork and belittled individual thinking/decision-making and independent action, with frequent reminders to never forget, of course, who the no. 1 boss is. There was a bit of faulty/guilty behavior demonstrating in that we were each asked to recount past situations where we were unhelpful to newcomers and answered their questions poorly or ‘improperly'. Also there was a series of about 6, 5-min. filmed shorts (produced by Dunrite in California with hired actors) of different takes of a morning coffee break conversation with a PWK talking to work friends about the event with MJ she attended over the weekend. Following each, we'd discuss what were the most effective and ineffective lines used. Then there was the simulator interview session (I'll describe that later)* It was basically a how-to-sell-Knowledge- without-looking-or-sounding-like-you're-selling-Knowledge' workshop. Of course, we couldn't think we were selling Knowledge; we were 'introducing the POSSIBILITY of Knowledge'. I signed up for this so as not to let the group down as they were one shy of the required number. Throughout the session, my thoughts were ‘this will be the last training session I attend - it all seems so unnecessary, we really don't need this anymore' and the emphasis on no-thinking-through-for-yourself was a turn-off for me, basically. *The simulation Q&A period: A few of us volunteered, one at a time, to go into a side room with a camera-video feed to the main hall where the rest would be critically observing our response to some unknown pretaped questions (some of them quite challenging) from either (1) a newcomer first-time introduced; (2) an aspirant trying to get some things cleared up before asking for K; or (3) person just received Knowedge asking why he's not experiencing anything, and other ‘mind' stuff. The questions were timed - you could get cut off if you pondered or went on too long. There were 4 pretaped endings (depending on your answers) varying from 'Thank you, I enjoyed talking with you; you've helped me' to 'What is this shit - you're crazy; I'm out of here'. Being curious to see how I'd do and what crappy ideas I might be holding onto myself, I volunteered. I did okay except for the last question - an easy one I've heard many times: 'Can I still practise this meditation and follow my own religion as well?' As my mind seemed to go blank with no answer and couldn't immediately recall any of MJ's quotes like 'Yes, if you like ice cream on your pasta' or 'Check others out first and if still not satisfied, keep me in reserve' (which don't really say anything either way), I caved in with an elaborate ‘yes'. I was feeling totally amazed at how easily I just let loose some misinformation and/or falsehood (like an embarrassing fart), when they ended the run with the first 'Thank you....' ending! Everyone was clapping and supportive, but I felt like a liar. The ensuing instruction on that was 'If there's a question you don't know the answer to, and we won't always have the answers to everything, just tell them to watch a video of MJ talking about it'. This I already well knew, but for me it was both not good enough AND gone from my mind at that under-pressure moment. When the instructor went on with this simplistic pointer, I was waving my arm high out of its socket with the question flooding through me: 'But why shouldn't we know the answers ourselves by now, and if not, to prepare for such interviews, we'd have to make a list of every possible question we can think of and search the library for the appropriate video before handing it to them'. It all smacked too much of being programmed with a run-home-to-mama button -- neither intelligent or honest, really. I wasn't given a chance to ask the question but was told I could email any feedback I have to the group. I did so with that very question, without a single response since. I'm just finishing Steven Hassan's book on combatting cult mind control, and maybe later I could share some understandings on this with someone..... But I'll end this here, for now. Cheers to you, Chris

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Date: Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 13:49:36 (EST) From: PatC Email: None To: Chris Subject: KIT - active recruitment - holy cow! Message:

That was a great essay, Chris. Just the mere mention of KIT was enough to send me scurrying out of the cult. The last time I ever watched a Rev Rawat video was the Atlanta tape. After ten or 15 minutes I had to turn it off. It was obviously a mindfuck. It seemed the whole point of the training could be summed up in one sentence: ''If you want to propagate, shut up and give people videos of Rawat.'' Obviously he does not want anyone to think or speak for themselves about K because that would put him out of business. K is secret and he is the only one who knows anything about it is simply his way of keeping control of the family business. If premies were to start speaking from their own experience he would lose his hold on ownership of K. It's a money-making scam. Great to have you here, Chris. Thanks.

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Date: Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 13:48:41 (EST) From: Cynthia Email: None To: Chris Subject: Hi Chris... Message:

Welcome to F7, Chris, Thanks for posting. You have so much energy, I hope you'll stick around--I like your enthusiasm. Since I was in the cult and have exited I have developed quite an aversion to the concept of TEAM and team trainings. I like the saying ''There's no 'I' in the word 'team'.'' And so it appears the purpose of these KITs is to diminish a pwk's self-image and self-confidence by making you wrong all the time. Or, at least, not knowing what is correct or incorrect. This is a typical cult tactic to keep people from thinking and having a sense of self and the ability to discern what is real and not real. It occurred to me that these training sessions appear to be completely for profit and have little to do with training anyone about anything, other than to reinforce who is the #1 boss, and add a bit more confusion to the minds of premies who attend. It's ludicrous for m to keep reinventing, revising, changing things over and over when nothing ever works. He's done this for years and propagation has diminished so much one would think he'd give it up already. He wants to keep premies in a state of submission and confusion. The double message is 1. With knowledge you will have all the answers, but...2. You must tie yourself to the master because only he actually knows all the answers and you might be wrong. BUT, here are a few crumbs of information to help you sell the product, m/k, but don't ever say the wrong thing or else. Instilled fear and implied consequences such as guilt, shame, feelings of inadequacy are Maharaji's game. He's such a fool. Thanks again for joining this board... I look forward to more of your posts, Chris. Best, Cynthia Gracie, Vermont

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Date: Thurs, Jan 03, 2002 at 22:56:40 (EST) From: Chris Email: None To: Cynthia Subject: Hi Cynthia! Message:

Hi Cynthia, sorry it took me a while to get back - I almost missed you in the entangling threads... 'It occurred to me that these training sessions appear to be completely for profit' Even though its main purpose was recruitment training, yes I would say they got their profit as well. It was $150 pp and at least 20 participants was the minimum requirement for each session. The only material brought in were the DVD, the Dunrite video and the simulator interview tape. All the rest (hall, food, cam/vid/screen, flipcharts, instructors’ billeting/travel, etc.) were provided by the hosting community. 'and propagation has diminished so much one would think he'd give it up already. ' - Cynthia, I feel the deprogramming gears here. It’s interesting..... Have to say, I can’t see him ever giving it up. At least for as long as he remains dedicated to spreading K like he’s always been (and hence it’s the cult’s dedication as well). I think maybe this could be a result of HIS programming. He’s been raised since childhood to do this, like continuing in his dad’s footsteps, and I doubt HE’s ever questioned, re-examined or analyzed that, and so now it’s continued on into the umpteenth generation? However, I can say the quality of propagation has deteriorated right into the gutters. They’re actually recruiting from within now by sending letters to old premies advising them of the ‘resources currently available to enjoy the speaker’s message’ (as if they’ve forgotten where how to ask..- if they want, they will ask..) But you know, the thing is, the mindset on that from within is they think they’re helping the old premies - doing them a favor, even on the chance only that they might appreciate being told about it.... Talk about it’s all in the color of our glasses the way we look at something, or the program belief itself, together with lack of insight and facts.....? I’m ending this one here, for now. (I’ve just written and deleted here another half page of drivel on this one - thoughts going back and forth in my head arriving nowhere yet......... :) 'He wants to keep premies in a state of submission and confusion. The double message is 1. With knowledge you will have all the answers, but...2. You must tie yourself to the master because only he actually knows all the answers and you might be wrong. BUT, here are a few crumbs of information to help you sell the product, m/k, but don't ever say the wrong thing or else. ' - Yes, so much for the premise of ‘standing on your own experience’! 'Thanks again for joining this board... I look forward to more of your posts, Chris.' - Great, thank you, me too Cheers, Chris

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Date: Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 17:56:17 (EST) From: Cynthia Email: None To: Chris Subject: Re: Hi Chris... Message:

Thanks for your response. I liked your answers...see my post to Doug above...it's about you too. I wish more ex-premies would start posting. It constantly amazes me what a precious gift it is to rid oneself of the cult and Maharaji. Welcome, keep posting... Cynthia P.S. I am going to start using some of the phrases and words that maharaji has bastardized for us while in the cult. Notice my ''precious gift'' in the last paragraph. I am sick of avoiding words because of the putrid association. We can reclaim our lives... c

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Date: Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 13:45:28 (EST) From: Francesca Email: None To: Chris Subject: ***BEST OF FORUM** whole thread! [nt] Message:

[nt]

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Date: Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 12:31:48 (EST) From: Joe Email: None To: Chris Subject: Excellent, Chris, thanks/questions Message:

Wow, that was amazing. This should probably go somewhere on the website so people can see what's actually going on these days. I'm not so surprised about the deceit, as I think that's been basically the propagation model for a long time (tell people it's just an 'experience' and nothing about the personality/worship cult it is until they are more hooked and then pull them in; don't tell them about darshan, and the rest that would send 'new people' running for the hills.) At least in the old days we were basically honest. Somebody could see the film 'Who is Guru Maharaj Ji' and see things like darshan and it was openly admitted that M was really the incarnation of God, or close to it. Now those things are still done and believed, but it's hidden from 'new people' and that really is deceitful. It reminds me of the Moonies who invite you to dinner, but don't even tell you they are followers of Moon until later. I'm more surprised that anyone with a brain would think this kind of thing/training/rote-learning would actually help in recruiting new members for the cult. Really, nothing has worked so far, and yet so much in time and resources is spent on some 'new' strategy that is finally going to do it. It's just amazing that premies continue, like sheep or cattle, to go along with it without asking the difficult questions and raising some serious doubts. I guess the programming against doubts is still very strong in that cult. Plus, the whole idea of 'knowledge' is supposed to be about a natural, inside 'experience.' The very idea that you have to worry about saying the wrong thing is just so weird. I guess this is all about Maharaji's megalomania. Only HE can explain the experience, and premies can only do it if they are properly trained. Under no circumstances can they be trusted to explain or relate their own experiences/beliefs. How demeaning. It just seems like Maharaji has always been about trying to destroy any self-reliance or independent thought, and even any growth that one of his 'students' might have. It seems to continue to be a cult based largely on fear. It just gives me the creeps because I can still remember that awful feeling I had as a premie of constantly discounting my own values and judgments. Also there was a series of about 6, 5-min. filmed shorts (produced by Dunrite in California with hired actors) of different takes of a morning coffee break conversation with a PWK talking to work friends about the event with MJ she attended over the weekend. Really? Dunrite went out and hired actors to play premies, instead of using actual PWKs? I bet that video was hysterical. I can't believe this. The questions were timed - you could get cut off if you pondered or went on too long. There were 4 pretaped endings (depending on your answers) varying from 'Thank you, I enjoyed talking with you; you've helped me' to 'What is this shit - you're crazy; I'm out of here'. So, I take it somebody was pushing some button for the 'appropriate' response to be played, having decided what as a "right" answer and what was a "wrong" one. Who did that? Was it the instructor? I assume this person also went through some kind of 'training.' Do you know anything about that? Who was the instructor? The ensuing instruction on that was 'If there's a question you don't know the answer to, and we won't always have the answers to everything, just tell them to watch a video of MJ talking about it'. Isn't this really a formula for a premie never really knowing if the answer they are giving is right, and always fearful of giving the wrong one? I mean, it isn't like premies wouldn't have an opinion on the correct response, it's just that they doubt whether it would be 'right,' or 'right' as of this month, as opposed to the 'right' answer of five years ago. What a weird situation. Indeed, Maharaji has said so many contradictory things over the years that even the 'right' answer could be wrong. It's so arbitrary, and it seems that the only 'right' answer is: 'Maharaji is God, he knows all and everything else is secondary,' and 'watch-videos-until-you-are-numbed-into-having-all-questions-repressed.' I wonder if you will every get an answer to your question. You would think that after practicing knowledge for 27 years, you might know at least a thing or two. Just trying to be objective, if I was talking to a premie, and he or she said they had been following Maharaji for 27 years, and still didn't know the answers to some pretty basic questions, I think I would assume something pretty weird was going on, don't you? But then, I think Maharaji is so far out of touch with ordinary people that he really has no idea how bizarre that would sound to someone not aching to kiss his feet.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 03, 2002 at 19:34:29 (EST) From: Disculta Email: None To: Joe Subject: Amazing, Joe Message:

YOu said 'Plus, the whole idea of 'knowledge' is supposed to be about a natural, inside 'experience.' The very idea that you have to worry about saying the wrong thing is just so weird. I guess this is all about Maharaji's megalomania. Only HE can explain the experience, and premies can only do it if they are properly trained. Under no circumstances can they be trusted to explain or relate their own experiences/beliefs. How demeaning' Indeed, how demeaning. And it just occurred to me that most premies have probably meditated MORE than MJ. Maybe he's afraid of that, too.

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Date: Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 16:51:43 (EST) From: Chris Email: None To: Joe Subject: I've no doubts left - this a cult! Message:

Joe, good questions - here are my answers: I'm not so surprised about the deceit, as I think that's been basically the propagation model for a long time (tell people it's just an 'experience' and nothing about the personality/worship cult it is until they are more hooked and then pull them in; Yes, it's a classic example of cult recruitment strategies I guess the programming against doubts is still very strong in that cult .. No shit, man. Strong as ever. Another classic example of a cult dynamic - instilling fear to question anything different from the group's belief, thereby locking the lured inside. Only HE can explain the experience, and premies can only do it if they are properly trained. Under no circumstances can they be trusted to explain or relate their own experiences/beliefs. So much for the concept ‘live from your own experience and your own understanding' which was the very tie that kept me bound. Even The Speaker himself would say over and over again (repetitive doctrination - cult programming technique) that concepts (premises), no matter how seemingly good, are incredibly dangerous. Dunrite went out and hired actors to play premies, instead of using actual PWKs? I bet that video was hysterical. The whole kit and caboodle was not only a great joke but an insult to intelligence. So, I take it somebody was pushing some button for the 'appropriate' response to be played, having decided what as a 'right' answer and what was a 'wrong' one. Who did that? Was it the instructor? I assume this person also went through some kind of 'training.' Do you know anything about that? Who was the instructor? The main facilitator was a visiting instructor from Washington (don't remember the name, right now) who was obviously ‘trained'. The KIT was hosted by each city's Knowledge Introductory Steering Committee whose task was to draw up and implement a ‘Knowledge Introduction Plan'. These plans clearly show that this is active recruitment, which discredits EV's FAQ statement that EV is not a cult involved in active recruiting of members, as each committee picked a yearly goal number of (say 300) people to introduce to Knowledge. Isn't this really a formula for a premie never really knowing if the answer they are giving is right, and always fearful of giving the wrong one? I mean, it isn't like premies wouldn't have an opinion on the correct response, it's just that they doubt whether it would be 'right,' or 'right' as of this month, as opposed to the 'right' answer of five years ago. What a weird situation. I've always prided myself in being able to answer questions intelligently and honestly and I went into the interview to really put it to the test for myself - not only to have whatever crappy ideas I myself might still have exposed, but to exercise my ability to dig down deep for the most intelligent, straightforward, satisfying answer possible. For the question ‘Can you practice this Knowledge and follow your own religion at the same time' the most honest answer would be 'yes, it's possible, but it would be hyprocritical if you did'. That blew all the cult programming fuses out of my mind at that moment, and when the 'thank you, you've helped me' ending was played and everyone clapped and said I did well, - man, that said it all to me: We're not only all a bunch of deceivers, we're a bunch of liars - which the cult rewards! and 'watch-videos-until-you-are-numbed-into-having-all-questions-repressed.' LOL - exactimondo Talk to you later, And I'm keeping the cheers to you coming, Chris

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Date: Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 10:20:58 (EST) From: Chris Email: None To: Joe Subject: Hi y'all and thanks.. Message:

Thanks Tonette, PatC, Jim, Richard and Joe for the nice welcomes - it is a tad scary being here... I've been enjoying your posts for the last while now, and I'm glad this chance is here to connect and share with fellow exiters! Woo-hoo! You can imagine the gears that been grinding in my brain since exiting and learning what I can about cults, cult exiting and processing, and look forward to sharing lots of thoughts, musings, some 'drips' of my own, and a few LOL's all in good time with you all. And I do solemnly vow :) um, endeavour (why DO people make vows to other people?!) to answer all messages I receive here as sincerely as possible, maybe not always right away and every day. I will say tho that Chris is my alias, so I'll be a bit skimpy on personal details, for the time being anyway - hope you don't mind. For now, here's a tidbit on personality idolization (another fav topic of mine these days). Y'all remember The Speaker's astrology jokes about Pluto chasing his anus? Well for fun once, a friend drew up the natal horrorscope for December 10, 1957 - and we noted he has Moon in Leo characteristics, which are: '...loves to be the center of attention, loves adoration, loves to be boss and king of his universe, has luxurious and expensive taste, and - get this - is born to shine on stage...' yea, yea, sounds familiar PLUS + Couple this with the fact that very few people actually see the world as it is; most people see things thru glasses colored by their own emotions EQUALS = could be we have some of the makings of personality idolization phenomena? Having come out the other end of a dream with the such an amazing twist at the end of it, I think it's really important to be really kind to ourselves in every big and tiny way possible. I just treated myself to a new dining set in December. When I was visiting a PWK friend who had gone to Miami to hear the speaker's concert (I know I'm not missing much - I've heard him in Amaroo) her new place was sparsely furnished so I gave my old set to her. I also lumped in a calendar saved from 7 yrs or so ago (I save my favs and *re-use them) - a little holy relic: one with a photo of & quote from The Speaker on each month. She said 'Oh no, I can't - you SURE?' I said, 'Absolutely'... There's much more.... but later. And thanks and many cheers to you all, Chris

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Date: Thurs, Jan 03, 2002 at 19:38:56 (EST) From: Disculta Email: None To: Chris Subject: Re: Hi y'all and thanks.. Message:

Fabulous posts 'chris.' A big loving welcome to you. You really seem to be doing quite well with such a humongous change of reality so quickly. I think your sense of humor is probably a big key. Looking forward to more of your posts, love Katie Darling

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Date: Thurs, Jan 03, 2002 at 23:06:19 (EST) From: Chris Email: None To: Disculta Subject: Aye - disculted... Message:

Thanks Katie Darling - yes, I'm SO glad to be out. It's gotten way too ridiculous. Likewise, looking forward to sharing stories - sad and funny - with you over the next while. Chris

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Date: Tues, Jan 01, 2002 at 20:07:33 (EST) From: New-Age Redneck Email: None To: Chris Subject: Re: Happy New Year - I'm unrecruiting... Message:

Chris, here are your scores: Technical Program - 10 10 10 9.9 10 (darned Italian Judge). Seriously, an excellent post and, as you will find, a very common theme amongst those here. Welcome!

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Date: Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 10:26:38 (EST) From: Chris Email: None To: New-Age Redneck Subject: Annex to Redneck... Message:

Annex to my last reply: And thanks for the scores (not that I care 2 lentils about my score), but thanks for the vote of confidence. By the way, are you a figure skating fan? (I like Kurt Browning and Lucinda Ruh - yay, Canada & yay, Schweiss....)\ Cheers, Chris

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Date: Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 09:38:47 (EST) From: Chris Email: None To: New-Age Redneck Subject: Hi New Age Red Neck! Message:

Love your name! From where did you get your inspiration for that one, may I ask? Did it come to you in one of your meditations? Or, is it the politically correct term now for 'Gopi'? :) (Yikes! Just Kidding! :) Cheers!

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Date: Tues, Jan 01, 2002 at 17:34:39 (EST) From: PatC Email: pdconlon@hotmail.com To: Chris Subject: Welcome, Chris Message:

For so many of us who have left Rev Rawat's non-religious church in the past year it was the KITS crap that was the final straw. It was no longer possible to kid ourselves that it was a cult. I look forward to hearing a lot more from you. I made my first post here a year ago today and I have learned a lot since - not only about how stuck in cult thinking I was but also how to communicate and give as good as I get from all the highly opinionated and argumentative but wonderfully irreverent and individualistic ex-premies. BTW Many of us longterm premies still enjoy meditating. We got quite a lot of satisfaction out of it but most of us are trying to understand it in our own way in our own terms without all the Maharajism superstition. Happy New Year and happy new life! Patrick Conlon, San Francisco.

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Date: Tues, Jan 01, 2002 at 17:57:15 (EST) From: Jim S. Email: None To: PatC Subject: Re: Welcome, Chris Message:

Hey Chris- Welcome, and best of luck in your recent exit. It's amazing how many people have similar stories...as each new story comes out, it seems to paint a picture drawn from all of them. Congratulations on your new found freedom.....my experience is that it only gets better and better... Look forward to hearing more from you. Jim S.

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