Another Question for MD
About M's Darshan
Best of the Forum Index

Joe -:- Another Question for Michael Dettmers..... -:- Mon, Oct 23, 2000 at 19:28:38 (GMT)

__ Michael Dettmers -:- Another Question for Michael Dettmers..... -:- Mon, Oct 23, 2000 at 22:31:55 (GMT)

__ __ Jennifer -:- Who is Michael Dettmers? -:- Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 01:39:36 (GMT)

__ __ __ Susan -:- Who is Michael Dettmers? -:- Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 03:35:29 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ gerry -:- Who is Michael Dettmers? Can u say 'henchman' ??? -:- Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 15:00:30 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Scott T. -:- Who is Michael Dettmers? -:- Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 06:02:27 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- Makes a good title for a book......nt -:- Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 09:04:57 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Jennifer -:- Thanks, Susan-nt -:- Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 03:38:11 (GMT)

__ __ __ janet of venice -:- question not well answered. ask mike who he was -:- Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 03:21:47 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Jennifer -:- question not well answered. ask mike who he was -:- Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 03:46:09 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Janet, please see post below to Tonette (nt) -:- Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 03:32:43 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Janet -:- read it b4 i decided to post N E way, mr.fussy -:- Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 03:55:46 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Will you give it to me, nurse? -:- Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 04:02:41 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ janet -:- sure. you'll like my technique, too.(OT!) -:- Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 04:21:25 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Tonette -:- The nt post or the one -:- Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 04:18:57 (GMT)

__ __ __ Selene -:- I missed the other posts too -:- Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 03:09:21 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Jennifer -:- My son has pink eye -:- Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 03:17:54 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- well the toddler is easier than Jim -:- Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 03:27:05 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Jennifer -:- Soul Rush -:- Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 03:37:10 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- ugh I can't remember that WIGMJ -:- Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 03:39:06 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Soul Rush -:- Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 03:34:40 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- I was very moved by her writing -:- Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 03:36:41 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ janet -:- where do i go to read it? is it on the site? -:- Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 04:09:50 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- It's on the site -:- Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 04:13:40 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ janet -:- It's on the site-i can't download w/ webtv!! -:- Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 04:45:45 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ selene -:- it is not a book it is a URL -:- Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 04:59:02 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- ok I am going to do this until it works -:- Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 05:06:33 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ janet -:- got it. read it. wrote to mike. see above.tx -:- Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 09:03:15 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- sophia and amherst -:- Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 04:13:08 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ a0aji -:- sophia and amherst -:- Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 04:24:52 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- who is ne l? just kidding -:- Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 04:28:51 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ a0aji -:- ne1==anyone its a mnemonic (nt) -:- Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 04:31:16 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- It was in hardback too -:- Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 04:16:31 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- it's been raining for days -:- Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 04:25:01 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Thanks, Selene -nt -:- Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 03:41:00 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- oh and ps -:- Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 03:29:00 (GMT)

__ __ __ Tonette -:- Michael is M's right hand man -:- Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 02:33:05 (GMT)

__ __ __ Jim -:- Michael Dettmers was m's personal trainer -:- Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 02:22:48 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Jennifer -:- Michael can you fit me in? -:- Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 03:07:06 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Tonette -:- She asked a sincere question -:- Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 02:38:50 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Tonette? Shut up, will you please? -:- Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 03:29:52 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Tonette -:- Beats 'fuck off' anyday Jim -:- Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 03:59:52 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Please see my post above to Janet (nt) -:- Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 04:03:36 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Tonette -:- Don't miss my post right there too! nt -:- Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 04:20:30 (GMT)

__ __ __ Marianne -:- Hi Jennifer (ot) -:- Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 02:03:47 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Jennifer -:- Hi Marianne (ot) -:- Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 02:56:42 (GMT)

__ __ Rick -:- Another Question for Michael Dettmers..... -:- Mon, Oct 23, 2000 at 23:01:44 (GMT)

__ Lotus Eater -:- If I had to sit in a chair and wonder whether the -:- Mon, Oct 23, 2000 at 21:53:51 (GMT)

__ janet -:- world's costliest whore--! -:- Mon, Oct 23, 2000 at 20:31:24 (GMT)

Date: Mon, Oct 23, 2000 at 19:28:38 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Another Question for Michael Dettmers.....
Message:

Hi Michael,

It's so great to get your comments and the information you are providing. I think it's all very liberating for both premies and ex-premies.

I have another question if you don't mind.

When I was a premie, during the 10 years 1973 - 1983, darshan, the ritualized event when we used to line up and kiss Maharaji's feet, was a very big deal. Maharaji probably gave darshan in North America about 4-5 times a year during the latter part of the 70s and early part of the 80s. After I left the cult in 1983, I wasn't sure if he was still engaging in the practice, but if you read the Elan Vital website, he implies that he isn't doing it anymore, because he got rid of all those 'Hindu rituals.' Note, however that 'darshan' isn't even mentioned, nor is it claimed the practice has been discontinued.

Anyhow, people have reported here that Maharaji has continued to give darshan in India, and that he gave darshan at two big programs in Australia, one in 1996 and one in 1997, so the practice continues, even for Western premies.

Anyhow, I have two questions about darshan. Did Maharaji really believe that darshan removed karma? Did he talk about the benefits a devotee would receive from having darshan? Did he ever talk about the number of people who fainted in darshan, and whether that was real or not? Did he talk about his experience while GIVING darshan? He always appeared to me to be incredibly bored with the whole process, frowning usually, at least when I went through.

Also, I got the impression that Maharaji sometimes engaged in darshan (and really also some festivals) because he was feeling doubts about himself and these were ways to reinforce in himself that he was, indeed, who he said he was -- a being worthy of worship from thousands of people.

Also, during the Boeing 707 plane project, I had a discussion with Dennis Marciniack, the president of Elan Vital, when I was Community Coordinator in Miami, and so much emphasis was on raising money for the plane. Anyhow, Dennis said that Maharaji sometimes netted $250,000 in cash donations when he gave darshan and that this money went directly to Maharaji personally, and not to, or through, Elan Vital. (This has been supported by comments from KK, a finance person for Maharaji.) Marciniak said that in the context of the fact that Maharaji had openly discussed with him the possibility of Maharaji making a one-time donation of the money he got in the next darshan line to the plane project, because he was so keen on it getting finished, and money was always running short.

I remember at the time thinking it was strange to talk about something as supposedly holy and important as darshan as a source of money. I guess my other question is, did Maharaji see darshan as a source of MONEY, and did he engage in the practice partly out of the need to raise money? Also, I remember when the directive came through the initiators that people should refrain from giving token 'gifts' to Maharaji in darshan and to instead give money, and this would be in line with that. Also, we all recall the gauntlet of people handing out envelopes as we went into the 'darshan tunnel' and the big barrels that collected the donations.

Also, did Maharaji ever discuss festivals as also being a source of income? I recall that for awhile entrance feels became quite high, up to around $100, and that was back in the 70s, and he was giving lots of programs, especially in Miami.

Thanks,

Joe

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Date: Mon, Oct 23, 2000 at 22:31:55 (GMT)
From: Michael Dettmers
Email: dettmers@gylanix.com
To: Joe
Subject: Another Question for Michael Dettmers.....
Message:

Joe,

I think I captured all of your questions.

Did Maharaji really believe that darshan removed karma?

Maharaji tended to dismiss accepted spiritual concepts like “karma” and “reincarnation” to name but two. His claim was that knowledge took you beyond all such concepts. I never heard him say that darshan removed karma.

Did he talk about the benefits a devotee would receive from having darshan?

He did say, always in the third person, that Maharaji’s darshan was the greatest gift that can be bestowed upon a devotee.

Did he ever talk about the number of people who fainted in darshan, and whether that was real or not?

His concern in this regard was that they be taken care of (i.e. don’t let them fall and hurt themselves). The darshan recovery room was created for this purpose.

Did he talk about his experience while GIVING darshan?

Not that I am aware of.

Did Maharaji see darshan as a source of MONEY, and did he engage in the practice partly out of the need to raise money?

I had many conversations with Maharaji about money, but I never heard him even suggest that he give darshan to raise money.

Did Maharaji ever discuss festivals as also being a source of income?

Maharaji pretty much left the organization of festivals to the organizers. I remember one incident in the late 70’s, when he got involved in reviewing the proposed budget for one of the large festivals. He got angry because the organizers (me included) simply added up all of the projected costs including his accommodation and transportation, and divided that number by the number of anticipated attendees in order to arrive at a registration fee. That fee turned out to be pretty high (I can’t remember how much it was) and he demanded that we find a way to lower it.

Michael

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 01:39:36 (GMT)
From: Jennifer
Email: None
To: Michael Dettmers
Subject: Who is Michael Dettmers?
Message:

Don't everyone laugh at once.

Michael, I looked for your Journey, but there wasn't one. Your posts recently have been fascinating. More so if I could place you in context, I'm sure. Can you or anyone tell me in a sentence or two your connection to Maharaji and Elan Vital?
Many thanks,
Jennifer

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 03:35:29 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Jennifer
Subject: Who is Michael Dettmers?
Message:

He was the Guru's sort of right hand man from the mid seventies to early eighties. His 'service' as I understand it was basically running the financial side of the guru's operations. But probably he ought to explain what he really did. I get the impression he was sort of the guru's strategist, financial advisor, and sort of tried to keep the operations solvent and legal.

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 15:00:30 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: Who is Michael Dettmers? Can u say 'henchman' ???
Message:

sorry nt

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 06:02:27 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: Who is Michael Dettmers?
Message:

Susan:

I thought Michael was the successor to Bob Mishler, but then as a bongo I didn't pay much attention to those things. It appears that at a certain point he simply became a fee-based consultant performing some of the duties you outlined.

--Scott

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 09:04:57 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: Makes a good title for a book......nt
Message:

nt

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 03:38:11 (GMT)
From: Jennifer
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: Thanks, Susan-nt
Message:

Thanks, Susan

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 03:21:47 (GMT)
From: janet of venice
Email: Jai_Choix@webtv.net
To: Jennifer
Subject: question not well answered. ask mike who he was
Message:

jennifer, you're not getting a true answer here. your innocent question unfortunately triggered some other people's strong feelings and instead of giving you the answer you deserved, you got answers that left you no better off than you were before you asked.


since Michael is reading these posts with us, why not ask him what he felt he was, and what he did in his years with Maharaji? He would be the best one to answer you--as well as himself--on this.


It has been said, somewhere, that the true test of how well one understand's a subject can be gauged by how one answers a child's question about it. If one finds one cannot explain it to a small child, then one has not understood it well enough. since you were a child when all this was happening around you, this should be an excellent moment, for both you and michael, as well as the rest of us, to hear what michael finds he can tell you about his role in all this.

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 03:46:09 (GMT)
From: Jennifer
Email: None
To: janet of venice
Subject: question not well answered. ask mike who he was
Message:

I did ask Mike, but also opened it up for everyone else, too, in case he wasn't here tonight. :)
Take care,
Jennifer

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 03:32:43 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: janet of venice
Subject: Janet, please see post below to Tonette (nt)
Message:

fffffff

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 03:55:46 (GMT)
From: Janet
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: read it b4 i decided to post N E way, mr.fussy
Message:

are you a virgo??

 

and did you remember to take that nice warm enema i prescribed you, the other day? you still show significant symptoms of irritability

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 04:02:41 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Janet
Subject: Will you give it to me, nurse?
Message:

Sorry, Laur.

But what are you doing reading this stupid ol' cult page of mine anyway?

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 04:21:25 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: sure. you'll like my technique, too.(OT!)
Message:

i don't use the bag. I invented a home colonic setup I've shown to all my roomates, over the years. all you need is six feet of half-inch, clear surgical vinyl tubing, a bathtub, and one of those detachable shampoo sprays they sell in the discount stores. there's nothing quite so releasing and comforting when the world has kept you from really relaxing and leting it all go. I recommend it. Really, Jim.I do. in fact, I'm overdue, myself...

******************************** oh--and what am i doing here? same thing you are. thanks for the arena. is IS ok to spar with the owner, isn't it?? you like it, doncha.

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 04:18:57 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: The nt post or the one
Message:

about the enema?
And what does that have to do with what I wrote to you?
I can't remember mentioning an enema, except of course, if this is your way of telling me to perhaps...'blow it out my ass?'

Your favorite admirer, Tonette. ps after all it is your forum.

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 03:09:21 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Jennifer
Subject: I missed the other posts too
Message:

Don't feel bad. I knew who MD was from the old days but would not have known otherwise. I saw many recent posts referencing Michael's posts here earlier this year or late last year but I missed them all. May have been during my uh, break last summer/fall. And as usual I am too lazy to search the archives.

Initially a few months ago I was very skeptical but the thing is he was very well known and I am thinking that those reading this site would have let Michael know someone was impersonating him (if someone was.)

And I think it's worth considering his posts, for historical purposes if nothing else. EV has done enough to try to bury the past. And a lot of what he says resonates with what other PAPAMs
have said.
- someone here coined that phrase:
People around People Around M

If some of the newer people had been subject to this much doubt and scrutiny on posts would they have lasted here I wonder?

oh well i'm grumpy. Been babysitting a toddler cutting molars.

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 03:17:54 (GMT)
From: Jennifer
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: My son has pink eye
Message:

so I can relate

Thanks, Selene. So I guess Michael is a Pam then and not a personal trainer (LOL) That Jim Heller...what in the hell are we going to do with him, anyway?
Good luck babysitting, girl!

Jennifer

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 03:27:05 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Jennifer
Subject: well the toddler is easier than Jim
Message:

because I have this sneaky suspicion Jim loves all the ruckus.
oops.

He is being very grumpy and hard to deal with but I feel so sorry for him. The baby I mean, not Jim.

Yeah Michael was one of those running the business end of the show. Something most of us never even considered at the time.
I mean we thought M was Lord. Why would he need management?

Did you ever get a chance to read Soul Rush?
and please excuse my (ahem) computer illerteracy but I am going to paste this:
http://www.ex-premie.org/papers/soul_rush.htm

To be honest I can't remember if Michael is mentioned anywhere in this but it does help to explain the transitional stages at the very start.

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 03:37:10 (GMT)
From: Jennifer
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Soul Rush
Message:

Thanks Selene
I have been meaning to get around to Soul Rush. Is Michael in the book Who is Guru Maharaji? That is sitting downstairs and I could look in there, too.
Jenn

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 03:39:06 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Jennifer
Subject: ugh I can't remember that WIGMJ
Message:

I had to opportunity to participate in viewing it heheh
a while back but was too busy.
I know some others have it around.
Anyone? personally I doubt anyone was mentioned but M and anyone famous he influenced at the time. Just a guess.

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 03:34:40 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Soul Rush
Message:

Hi Selene.

There is information about Michael Dettmers in Soul Rush.

I recommend reading the entire posted portions to everyone.

Marianne

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 03:36:41 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: I was very moved by her writing
Message:

I agree Marianne everyone should read that. liked your post above too!

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 04:09:50 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Selene and all
Subject: where do i go to read it? is it on the site?
Message:

or are you referring to the paperback book by sofia?? (who, by the way, came on to me in the basement of the Shelter in Denver, once, in 1974, while we were doing laundry after Amherst, and I've regretted that i didnt take her up on it, for a lifetime, since! she was loads more fun than pipsqueak ever was!

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 04:13:40 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: It's on the site
Message:

Hi janet. Go to the DLM/EV papers, to the section where you can download the site. Then you'll see the entry for Soul Rush. It is Sophia's book. Full of enlightening info, especially now.

Marianne

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 04:45:45 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: It's on the site-i can't download w/ webtv!!
Message:

we on webtv dont have removable storage like you guys on pc do. we can, however uncompress zipped files online. i wonder if i can read it online page by page, or chapter by chapter. i have done it with other books that have been serialized on other sites.

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 04:59:02 (GMT)
From: selene
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: it is not a book it is a URL
Message:

right here on the site.
Once again: OK OK I'll try the html!
soul rush

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 05:06:33 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: again
Subject: ok I am going to do this until it works
Message:

you can delete all of it FA but I'm mad at myself here:

Soul Rush

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 09:03:15 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: got it. read it. wrote to mike. see above.tx
Message:

asdfghjkl;

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 04:13:08 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: sophia and amherst
Message:

My old home town, sort of. I lived there a lot from age 12 on anyway.
yeah the book was in paperback. Is it still in print?
the url here on
EPO has excerpts:
http://www.ex-premie.org/papers/soul_rush.htm

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 04:24:52 (GMT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: ne1
Subject: sophia and amherst
Message:

http://www.ex-premie.org/papers/soul_rush.htm

This book (hardcover) was in the New Britain Public Library (in Connecticut) when I lived nearby - many years ago. I read the whole thing back when I first found it.

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 04:28:51 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: a0aji
Subject: who is ne l? just kidding
Message:

It's my browser or the rain.
Thanks. I'll look for the book.

I was just in East Windsor. And points north in Masachusettes.
It was beautiful but made me sad. These extremes in weather may suit my moods but they are getting old!

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 04:31:16 (GMT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: ne1==anyone its a mnemonic (nt)
Message:

nt

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 04:16:31 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: It was in hardback too
Message:

I left my copy on Anth's table in Paris......

How's the desert, Selene?

Marianne

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 04:25:01 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: it's been raining for days
Message:

everyone is disoriented. The sirens are ringing more often than ever in my hood because the streets are flooded an no one knows how to drive in weather. But I LOVE the rain.
So it's still in print? I'll go look on Amazon.

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 03:41:00 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Thanks, Selene -nt
Message:

xxxxx

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 03:29:00 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Jenn a ps
Subject: oh and ps
Message:

I *did* answer you as 'true' :) as I could!!

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 02:33:05 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Jennifer
Subject: Michael is M's right hand man
Message:

But Michael left Maharaji, at least that is how he tells it. Michael got Maharaji to where he is now.

Michael gave lots of 'devotional' satsang. Got alot of people to do otherwise what their common sense told them was wacked. Michael was a real 'inspiration.'

Now Michael gets red carpet treatment here. Why? Don't know.

If you ask me, Michael was part of what was wrong with the whole scene circa 1975-1985. Michael has no regrets. He ended up with a great career. Although, by his oun accounts, Michael knew Maharaji was a fraud much sooner than when Michael stopped talking that 'Lord of the Universe' crap.

But Michael is okay now because he comes here with the real truth that Michael knew a long, long, time ago. He's sharing it with us now. Isn't that great?

Michael is absolved according to EPO. Michael did no wrong and is never to held accountable!

Food for thought, Tonette

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 02:22:48 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jennifer
Subject: Michael Dettmers was m's personal trainer
Message:

You know, Jennifer, sometimes even a coach needs a coach. Well, Dettmers is responsible for Maharaji's workout program.

Where you been anyway?

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 03:07:06 (GMT)
From: Jennifer
Email: garfarboleets@hotmail.com
To: Jim
Subject: Michael can you fit me in?
Message:

Hey, Jim, how's it going? I thought you read my journey. You told me how much you liked it, remember? I was a kid when all this happened and I had/have premie family members. I didn't keep up with the Pams...didn't even know who they were cause I was too young. Also, like you said this was a rinky-dink cult in the scheme of things. It's not like Michael was on the cover of People magazine or anything (was he?) No slight intended, Michael, that's probably for the best.

I can tell Michael is getting treated with some celebrity so I figured he was a big wig around Maharaji. But specifically who he was, I didn't know.

I could use a personal trainer, however. Michael what is your schedule looking like this week? :)

Charmed as usual, Jim
Jennifer

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 02:38:50 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: She asked a sincere question
Message:

She honestly didn't know. Why insult her?

Want to venture how many people/sensitive souls you have driven from here/hurt by your comments?

Saying Dettmers was Maharaji's 'workout coach' really does not illuminate what Dettmers really was.

Where has she been? Probably living her LIFE!

Yeah but it's your forum, I forgot, Tonette

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 03:29:52 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: Tonette? Shut up, will you please?
Message:

That was a joke, Tonette. You know, like in JOKE?

Christ!

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 03:59:52 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Beats 'fuck off' anyday Jim
Message:

But no, I thought you were serious. For real. Sorry I missed your joke.

We definately have different senses of humor to say the least. You don't get my humor and I have a hard time reading yours. Sorry. Not much I can do about it.

But shut up is rude too! (joke, as in hardeharharhar)

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 04:03:36 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: Please see my post above to Janet (nt)
Message:

ffffffff

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 04:20:30 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Don't miss my post right there too! nt
Message:

nt ffffffuuuuuuccccckk uuuuuuu

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 02:03:47 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: MarianneDB@aol.com
To: Jennifer
Subject: Hi Jennifer (ot)
Message:

Jennifer: I've lost your email address. Could you send me an email? I met one of your sister's pals.

Marianne

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 02:56:42 (GMT)
From: Jennifer
Email: garfarboleets@hotmail.com
To: Marianne
Subject: Hi Marianne (ot)
Message:

Super, Marianne!
She will be happy to hear it.

How are you doing, anyway? Oh, you can tell me in e-mail.
garfarboleets@hotmail.com

Tis the season in retail,so if I don't get to my e-mail right away, give me a few days,
Jennifer

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Date: Mon, Oct 23, 2000 at 23:01:44 (GMT)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: Michael Dettmers
Subject: Another Question for Michael Dettmers.....
Message:

I distinctly remember maharaji explaining at a program how knowledge would remove karma. I think it was between 1979-1981. He might have used a story from the Hindu scriptures to make his point, but I can't remember that part for sure.

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Date: Mon, Oct 23, 2000 at 21:53:51 (GMT)
From: Lotus Eater
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: If I had to sit in a chair and wonder whether the
Message:

next person through was going to take a bite out of my toe instead of kissing it, I'd want at the minimum a good tranquilliser, and perhaps a joint to relieve the tedium of not allowing my mind to wander off the platform of certainty of my worthiness to receive such worship. I imagine he feels he deserves all that hard earned money.

Ah, the life of a devotee, where one is worthless dust at the feet of ones beloved, what else to do but buy some mink lined socks for the Lord.

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Date: Mon, Oct 23, 2000 at 20:31:24 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: world's costliest whore--!
Message:

and he didnt even get you a private room for the encounter...'ah crap. wallet's empty again. guess i gotta hit the streets and go ta work. lets see...perfume my hair...nice tight outfit...some nice jewlry...hmmm--the gold or the silver?..wheres my mouthwash? arhglglglglglgptwwhhhh!...can they smell that smoke??(whiffs into his cupped hands, wrinkles nose) ahh fuck it. I'll just keep my mouth shut. now...where's my call list of johns? oh! right! here we go (sits down to the phone)'ah, hello, Dennis?...ah, i was wondering if you could call a little meeting for me at the convention center ?, say in about an hour?? Just the local premies. yes. I feel like giving darshan. I miss the premies so much. yes. yes. that would be fine. Oh--and dennis? tell them not to get all dressed up. i feel like being casual tonight. something very simple. tell them not to waste their money on uneccessary expenses. it'll just be for them to see me. ok. goodbye'

stands up, does a little shake in the mirror, smiles as a car bombs across the causeway road, pumping out the strains of 'lookin for some Hot Stuff, baby this evenin'..' and walks out the door, car keys twirling on finger.

...................->V<-................
[later that night]'Dennis, would you just leave those barrels in my dressing room and let me be alone? I'll lock up when i leave. I don't want anyone around tonight.You can go'.
[listens for sounds fading away into silence. peeps out door, sees no one, shuts door and lock himself in with his take.]'hmmm... not as much as i'd hoped, but enough to make a buy. okay. time to get crackin''(giggles at his own joke as he folds the wads of cash and stuffs them in his various pockets) As he hustles out to his Maserati, he frets'i hope that guy in the Grove got his shipment in...' guns the engine in the miami night, and bombs off across the bay, in quest of some peruvian marching powder, from the expensive side of town...

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