Date: Mon, Dec 25, 2000 at 22:44:17 (GMT) From: Patrick Email: None To: Michael Dettmers Subject: Could you answer these questions please Michael? Message:

In the early 80’s, following a festival at the ashram outside of New Delhi, India, Maharaji and his motorcade were traveling from the ashram to the airport to board the 707 for America. Maharaji was driving the lead car and I was a passenger in the front seat of the car directly behind his. All of a sudden, I saw a man riding a bicycle pull out in front of Maharaji’s car. Seconds later the man went flying several yards into the ditch. He died instantly. Randy Prouty, who was traveling as security in Maharaji’s vehicle, frantically ran to the car I was in and instructed all of us to get out of the car and find a place in the other vehicles that were part of the motorcade. Maharaji and the people in his car quickly transferred to the car I was in, and we all sped to the airport. Sampurnanand stayed behind to deal with the situation which he did by having his houseboy take the wrap. In the investigation that ensued, the houseboy stating that he was the driver of the vehicle who hit the unfortunate cyclist. That explanation, plus a heft cash settlement to the victim’s family, enabled Maharaji to quickly put the incident behind him so that he could get on with the business of bringing peace, love and joy to the rest of humanity. I would like to ask you some questions regarding these allegations of yours, Michael. 1) Did Maharaji speak later to you or anyone else you know about this, if so what did he say? 2) What was his reaction to the death of this cyclist? 4) Do you know what happened to Sampurnanand's 'houseboy' in terms of retribution for his confessed part in this? 5) Was this matter discussed amongst 'Premies around Maharaji' at all? You were there and presumably the subject must have come up. 6) What were Maharaji and those premies involved so afraid would actually happen if Maharaji had confessed that he was driving - that was so worth this risky course of action? I have never been to India and do not have any real idea of the way the law works there. Prior to his leaving the scene of the accident I would have supposed that Maharaji might have been judged merely to have been in a most unfortunate and regrettable accident which wasn't his fault. He would have clearly had a number of witnesses that would have been prepared to say that it was basically the cyclists' fault. Presumably Maharaji and his cohorts thought that the scandal of his involvement in the accident would have been so damaging that it merited lying to avoid such an outcome. Surely they would have known that lying about it in this manner would constitute an even worse scandal should someone decide to blow the whistle - as you have done? Incidentally, had this incident occurred in England, I think that the law would have certainly held him partly responsible and he would have incurred some sort of punitive measure for driving without due caution, however negligent the actions of the cyclist. I am prepared to accept though that in India things are handled in a different manner. 7) What do you think we can expect Elan Vital's version of events to be, if they ever offer one? (In other words, what do you predict will be the sort of arguments for Maharaji's defence - that we may hear from him or premies?) 8) If they were to confess that the way it was handled was a mistake, how should they now rectify their mistake in your opinion? 9) Most premies I have spoken with regard this, at face value, as a regrettable mistake. They also feel that to confess as much, still leaves Maharaji's validity as The Master in matters of Knowledge intact. What would be your comment on their opinion that as a Master he can make all these kinds of mistakes and still be trustworthy in matters of the heart?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Dec 26, 2000 at 03:08:31 (GMT) From: Michael Dettmers Email: dettmers@gylanix.com To: Patrick Subject: Christmas Tidings Message:

Patrick, Here are my responses to your questions: 1) Did Maharaji speak later to you or anyone else you know about this, if so what did he say? No. Once the matter was dealt with, the subject was never raised again, at least in my presence. 2) What was his reaction to the death of this cyclist? Everyone, including Maharaji considered it to be an unfortunate accident. 3) Do you know what happened to Sampurnanand's 'houseboy' in terms of retribution for his confessed part in this? I did not play a direct or indirect role in the settlement of this matter. The houseboy suffered no retribution that I am aware of. The Indian authorities accepted that it was an accident, and the family was satisfied with the cash settlement. With that, the case was closed. 4) Was this matter discussed amongst 'Premies around Maharaji' at all? You were there and presumably the subject must have come up. Same response as my answer to your first question. 5) What were Maharaji and those premies involved so afraid would actually happen if Maharaji had confessed that he was driving - that was so worth this risky course of action? Prior to this incident, Maharaji had had to deal with several problems with the Indian authorities. In 1972, there was the jewelry smuggling incident. Following the family split, BBJ launched several bogus legal cases against Maharaji that took four years to resolve. Consequently, Maharaji could not visit India between 1976 and 1980. Starting in 1980, Maharaji once again visited visit India two or three times a year. The unfortunate accident happened sometime in 1982 or 1983. Given his previous difficulties with the Indian authorities, Maharaji didn’t want another scandal. Because corruption was so rampant in India at that time, Maharaji was confident that Sampurnanand could grease the right palms necessary to handle the matter, which he did. 6) What do you think we can expect Élan Vital's version of events to be, if they ever offer one? In my post about this revelation, I prefaced it with my expression of disgust with the way Maharaji and Élan Vital handled the Jagdeo situation. My point was to give a concrete example of how Maharaji and his cohorts are capable of lying and covering up any situation that they feel may damage Maharaji’s reputation. I found it particularly interesting that Randy Prouty was also a player in this situation as, I have no doubt, he was in the Jagdeo situation. I don’t know what, if anything, Élan Vital will say about this matter, but judging from their FAQ’s, I wouldn’t expect anything that resembles the truth. 7) If they were to confess that the way it was handled was a mistake, how should they now rectify their mistake in your opinion? Maharaji should rectify this and his other mistakes by addressing all of the people who have looked to him as a Lord, or Perfect Master, or simply as a teacher and admit that he is spiritually and morally bankrupt as well as an alcoholic in need of rehab. He should seek out Jagdeo’s victims, personally apologize to them, and make restitution. He should also apologize for all of the confusion and suffering his illegal, unethical and hypocritical behavior have caused those sincere seekers of truth who came to him for spiritual solace and guidance. He should seek to recompense those families who have suffered financially because they gave him all or most of their money under false pretenses, even if he has to sell his GV and his yacht to do so. Finally, he should retire from the perfect master business altogether. 8) Most premies I have spoken with regard this, at face value, as a regrettable mistake. They also feel that to confess as much, still leaves Maharaji's validity as The Master in matters of Knowledge intact. What would be your comment on their opinion that as a Master he can make all these kinds of mistakes and still be trustworthy in matters of the heart? I regard this incident as an unfortunate accident that could happen to anyone. In this instance, Maharaji was not drunk behind the wheel, but the fact is he left the scene of an accident in which he was the driver of a car that killed a man, and he conspired to cover up his complicity in the matter. This is just one example of many in which he has exhibited less than exemplary behavior. Given these facts, each person must decide for themselves if Maharaji possesses the moral and spiritual authority and integrity worthy of their love, trust and devotion, for that is what he demands. I, for one, cannot and I would strongly recommend that no one else place his or her trust in him either. Michael

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Dec 26, 2000 at 06:59:13 (GMT) From: Suchabananda Email: None To: Michael Dettmers Subject: Mithrasmas Tidings Message:

http://www.elanvital.org/behind_the_message.htm Maharaji’s own takes: 'When you slip on a banana skin, you can’t blame the banana or the person who threw it there. It was you, through a moment of unconsciousness, didn’t look where you were walking.' Peace,

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Dec 26, 2000 at 21:02:39 (GMT) From: sucha Email: None To: Michael Dettmers Subject: Q:time,date,road,people,car,brake/swerve,report?nt Message:

nt

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Dec 26, 2000 at 01:30:06 (GMT) From: Patrick Email: None To: Maharaji Subject: Could you answer these questions please Maharaji? Message:

In the early 80’s, following a festival at the ashram outside of New Delhi, India, Maharaji and his motorcade were traveling from the ashram to the airport to board the 707 for America. Maharaji was driving the lead car and I was a passenger in the front seat of the car directly behind his. All of a sudden, I saw a man riding a bicycle pull out in front of Maharaji’s car. Seconds later the man went flying several yards into the ditch. He died instantly. Randy Prouty, who was traveling as security in Maharaji’s vehicle, frantically ran to the car I was in and instructed all of us to get out of the car and find a place in the other vehicles that were part of the motorcade. Maharaji and the people in his car quickly transferred to the car I was in, and we all sped to the airport. Sampurnanand stayed behind to deal with the situation which he did by having his houseboy take the wrap. In the investigation that ensued, the houseboy stating that he was the driver of the vehicle who hit the unfortunate cyclist. That explanation, plus a heft cash settlement to the victim’s family, enabled Maharaji to quickly put the incident behind him so that he could get on with the business of bringing peace, love and joy to the rest of humanity. I would like to ask you some questions regarding these allegations of Michael Dettmers. 1) What was your reaction to the death of this cyclist? 2) Was it you or somebody else who decided that the matter should be handled in this way? 3) What were you or those premies involved so afraid would actually happen if you had confessed that you were driving - that was so worth this risky course of action? Presumably you and your premies thought that the scandal of your involvement in the accident would have been so damaging to your work that it merited lying to avoid such an outcome. Surely you would have known that lying about it in this manner would constitute an even worse scandal should someone decide to blow the whistle - as Michael Dettmers is attempting to do? 4) What is your version of events? 5) If you are prepared to admit that the way this incident was handled was a mistake, then how would you propose to rectify this error? 6) Most premies I have spoken with so far regard this, at face value, as a regrettable mistake. They also feel that to admit as much, leaves your validity as The Master in matters of Knowledge intact. 7) If as a Master you are really prepared to allow people to protect you through lies, then how can we be sure that you are not also capable of lying with regard to matters of the heart and Knowledge? In short you could make it a lot easier for your pupils to trust you and get on with the business of knowledge if you didn’t appear to behave so contradictingly at every turn. 8) Wouldn’t it be more helpful to your stated cause of inspiring people in the field of Knowledge, if you were to act in a manner which generally made it easier for people to develop trust in you rather than the opposite? What is to be gained by behaving in such a way that you are effectively putting obstacles in the path of your students? If the object is to somehow test them, then would it not be kinder to give them trials that they had some hope of passing? 9)You once said words to the effect that… the Master places insurmountable difficulties in the paths of those who he loves so that they will abandon all attempts to deal with them on their own, and turn to him all the more. If your confusing behaviour is supposed to represent such a gracious gift from you, our loving Master, whereby we have another opportunity to deny our reason and once again, trust that you, and your apparent propensity for lies and cover up, only indicates another opportunity for us to abandon our judgement,… then where is the loving reassurance and help that is supposed to come in on the wings of grace once this ‘letting go’ has been done? 10) How come when I gave up everything, including my better judgement, obediently, to serve you in your Ashram –a lifelong commitment that I made with considerable anguish and sense of sacrifice – how come I ended up having such a miserable time? 11) How come… the experience of surrendering to you in practice only seemed to bring deprivation and poverty of experience of life? 12) How come even the initial joy of meditation that you seemed to have introduced to me became of little comfort when I entered your world of ‘total surrender’ where, deprived of the love of man and wordly pleasures, and turning as a child –stripped of hopes in this world – I reached much as a dying man for the love and mercy of God – you. How come you were not there then? 13) They say that Hell is the absence of both the love of Man and God. How come that is what it felt like? 14) How long are we supposed to hang in there and await the tests to finish? How come you let us continually fail your endless Herculean tests if you love us so much? 15) How come when you claim to be the only friend and lover that we truly have in this life, your truly dedicated lovers find themselves waiting out in the cold, wasting their lives doing apparently fruitless tasks –for all the world as if they might as well be dead – whilst you and a select few ‘privileged’ sycophants – have all the fun , all the while spurning and deriding the honest intentions of your dedicated lovers who are in difficulty. 16) How come this whole show seems daily more like the story of a Vampiric Antichrist –who drunk with power and congratulating himself for triumphing over the God of Love–in an obscene parody of the latter - enslaves his wan, lifeblood-sucked victims to him – promising them elusive eternal happiness and swearing them to deadly secrets that behold them to fearful dependancy upon him, their bloated and gloating Slave Master? He who would rub out their self respect, reason and righteousness and replace it with self-doubt , nonsense and immorality. He who would hold up their stupid blind acceptance as noble faith and flatter his gullible sheep that they are safely at home in his comfy slaughter house. He who like the Pied Piper would lead the innocent children from their loving families and homes with his siren melodies, charming them to follow him , spellbound under his hypnotic influence to the distant cave where they were lost to those who loved them – where they were entombed and put to work as his slaves. Too many mince pies or a cry from the heart? Happy Christmas!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Dec 26, 2000 at 05:29:53 (GMT) From: A question Email: None To: Patrick Subject: Megalomania or stupidity? Message:

There are still 2 options re Maharaji I assume; Maharaji is a fraud, or he is a real master, If the latter is the case, I think your question probably never will be ansvered here. If you consider Maharaji to be a Master, it appears that you put youself abouve him acting like a selfappointed jugde, If this is the case, it appears that you suffer from mealomania and your questions are none of you business, If Maharaji is a fraud, there seems to be no real neeed to ask those questions, BTW,is there no one here hwo have done a punishable act and got away with it? Or did you all report yourself to the police. And did you take responsibility for you actions anyway?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Dec 27, 2000 at 01:42:47 (GMT) From: Roger eDrek Email: drek@oz.net To: A question Subject: I was bad once - really bad and I... Message:

did not turn myself into Law Enforcement Officers, but instead I punished myself in a most physical and painful fashion. I now find that I benefit greatly from such punishment and I pay a pretty penny to have it done to me again and again.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Dec 26, 2000 at 20:41:01 (GMT) From: Jerry Email: None To: A question Subject: I'd be careful if I were you Message:

It's dangerous thinking to think somebody, in this world, is beyond reproach. I would suggest to you that you're playing right into Maharaji's hands by thinking he's beyond it. Think about it. Is it realistic for somebody to require, in this world, that we remove all doubt from our mind? People get burned that way. To require of your students that you abandon all discretion and misgiving can't be healthy. Again, not in this world. There's just to much deceit to expect any rational person to proceed without caution. Only somebody trying to get over on you would want you to steer away from judgement of him. That's Maharaji. It's profitable for him to require a lack of discretion from you. And that's all it's about, getting from you what he can. He's good at it.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Dec 26, 2000 at 17:09:55 (GMT) From: Scott T. Email: None To: A question Subject: Megalomania or stupidity? Message:

There are still 2 options re Maharaji I assume; Maharaji is a fraud, or he is a real master, Well, we aren't limited to making assumptions any more than we're limited to making assumptions about whether a conventional con man is guilty of fraud. Analysis of the actual evidence forecloses one of those options. How you deal with a fraud is now *your* problem. --Scott

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Dec 26, 2000 at 12:30:42 (GMT) From: Patrick Email: None To: A question Subject: Megalomania or stupidity? Message:

Dear ‘A question’, There are still 2 options re Maharaji I assume; Maharaji is a fraud, or he is a real master, If the latter is the case, I think your question probably never will be answered here. Also if the former is the case, a direct response is unlikely I guess. Now, regarding some other people’s suggestions about sending questions such as mine to him more directly, I would comment that my last set of ‘questions’ are more about posing questions for us to answer for ourselves. Ages ago (in Amaroo actually) in very humble tones, I penned my misgivings and expressed my problems in a letter to him directly. Since neither I or anyone else I know of, has ever found such an approach yielded a direct response, I hoped rather that by merely having made the gesture of manifesting such a ‘prayer for guidance’, the universe would somehow respond and I would receive my answer through ‘satsang’ or otherwise in my daily life. I am not entirely comfortable with your popular idea that Maharaji is either a fraud or a real master. I accept that for many, including myself, there have been ‘lessons’ in his Master Class that were helpful, but I fail to see why this means that he may not be capable of misleading people in some other ways or making mistakes. Things don’t look so black or white to me. I admit that my rambling analogies about the antichrist etc. may at first seem to be designed to cast him in an extreme role. What I am trying to draw attention to is that he has successfully cast himself in the opposite extreme role, certainly in the minds of premies like yourself who see things in terms of Good and Evil, and little in between. He confirms this simply by never acknowledging that his mistakes have repercussions worse than being some sort of ‘graceful’ opportunity for premies to learn and grow. If you consider Maharaji to be a Master, it appears that you put yourself above him acting like a self appointed judge, If this is the case, it appears that you suffer from megalomania I agree with Salam on this in that it seems inaccurate to suggest that anyone, Premie or otherwise- can have no judgements about Maharaji. As Premies, we merely make more generous judgements about him. I guess that as a self-appointed judge you would expect me also to cast some sentence in Maharaji’s direction. You may notice that I have not done this, but have merely raised questions. I would have thought that expressing my judgements in this forum or elsewhere could be compared with a student of life, having the courage to voice his honest opinions, despite some considerable disapproval from other students and possibly from the Master himself. I effect I understand that you consider me a disruptive element. Regarding the possibility that I have megalomaniac aspirations, I would point out that I am not alone in my attempts to openly discuss my doubts about Maharaji and Knowledge. Neither do I believe asking Maharaji hard questions indicates that the person or persons doing so seek to become megalomaniacs themselves. …and your questions are none of you business As someone who dedicated myself as best I could to serve Maharaji for many years, I fail to see why, when Maharaji’s behaviour seems confusing to me, I should not be at liberty to ask some questions. I would say that Maharaji’s private life is only my business in as much as it directly affects those and me around me. In this case, I find that it is hard to reconcile his private behaviour with my feelings of what I expect in terms of honesty from someone I trusted as a Master and guide. If Maharaji is a fraud, there seems to be no real need to ask those questions Do you think that if someone is getting away with fraud there is no need to take any steps to expose their fraudulence? I suppose you are saying that if he is a fraud on such a grand scale then Life itself will dish out the appropriate Karmic consequence, and that we, as mere mortals, have no part to play. Whilst I agree that my questions probably fall on deaf ears and actually only serve to stimulate my own ability to answer them, rather than to expose him as a fraud, I would say that as such they address a personal need. Others here have expressed that there is a shared need to ask such questions amongst ourselves. That we do so publicly is because we see no harm in inviting Premies, Elan Vital and Maharaji himself to enjoin the debate. When someone like Michael Dettmers throws into the debate some highly contentious, more serious and damning allegations, then the debate takes on a more serious tone. This is what we are seeing now, for better or for worse. is there no one here who have done a punishable act and got away with it? Or did you all report yourself to the police. And did you take responsibility for you actions anyway? I agree that most people have done illegal things that they have got away with. I have done some myself, none of which I am ashamed of now. One guy I was at school with and with whom I shared his first joint, later became a heroin addict. I have maintained friendship with this guy and he dos not consider that I was responsible for the way his life panned out. Sure I have taken responsibility for my actions. I can state categorically that that is what I want to do in my life. Some criminals are themselves grateful for being caught. Deep down they regret that their antisocial and illegal actions are harming others. When they acknowledge that they are sick, that is when for them the path of recovery begins. I have a very good premie friend who is in jail. He was caught with a large amount of cocaine. He is suitably contrite about his actions and feels that, in many ways, his capture and punishment is a blessing in disguise. Similarly I hope that Maharaji himself, faced with the opportunity to accept responsibility for many things that he has done and said over the years (for after all, this is not just about fessing up for this part in his accident) will himself become healed and a happier human being. What I am saying is that for Maharaji’s or anyone’s ‘skeletons in the cupboard’ to be dragged out cannot really be anything but a good thing for everyone at the end of the day. Again, if someone can point out why this not the case then please enlighten me.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Dec 26, 2000 at 11:55:13 (GMT) From: Gordon Showcase Email: None To: A question Subject: Megalomania or stupidity? Message:

I thought I'd ritten that post, Mr A Question but I chequed with my secretry and she siad I did'nt. Anyway, yoo mak sum valid pionts and have the ora of a thinking primie. At this time of year, mealomania is a serious bisiness and I admit that yesterday, I ate to much. And yor qite write - if Maharaji is a master all these people should not be asking qestons about him but just axepting evrythink about him as he is. But as we no, all these people are just a bunch of loosers!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Dec 26, 2000 at 10:07:23 (GMT) From: JohnT Email: None To: A question Subject: Stinking thinking or stupidity? Message:

There are still 2 options re Maharaji I assume; Maharaji is a fraud, or he is a real master, You would be wrong to assume the question is open; it is not. Rawat's just this guy, you know, whose life has been a lie. All of it. He is a lie; false; rotten; mad; bad; and sad. If the latter is the case, I think your question probably never will be ansvered here. If Rawat did have some feeling for truth; were he able to see what beauty is; if he has an ordinary person's sense of ethics (let alone the ethical awareness of a fully realised soul); had he, in other words, any ah, mastery of what it takes to be human, why then of course he could put the record straight here. Why not? Others whose conduct has been questioned have come here to put the record straight. Why not Rawat? If you consider Maharaji to be a Master, it appears that you put youself abouve him acting like a selfappointed jugde, If this is the case, it appears that you suffer from mealomania and your questions are none of you business, Not at all. We just take the Dalai Lama's advice to SPY ON YOUR GURU. Listen, it is a beautiful and wonderful world, but it is everywhere full of trickery. Blind faith can too easily be exploited by cynical gluttons. You have a duty to protect such weak and underdeveloped souls from their self-serving delusions by exercising proper caution in your worship. If Maharaji is a fraud, there seems to be no real neeed to ask those questions, We wish to delineate the fraud as fully as we can. To tell the truth about this perversion will protect people in the future, and help set free those still caught in the maya. BTW,is there no one here hwo have done a punishable act and got away with it? Or did you all report yourself to the police. What has that got to do with it? If I make elementary mistakes in maths, then I cannot honestly represent myself as an expert in Math. So it is with a 'Spiritual Master' who makes elementary mistakes in living his life here under the sun - he destroys his own credibility by not walking the walk he preaches. And did you take responsibility for you actions anyway? Yes. That is why I publicly stand by my words, unlike cowardly premie apologists for that wicked and greedy liar, Prem Pal Rawat. WAKE UP!!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Dec 26, 2000 at 09:43:13 (GMT) From: Hal Email: None To: A question Subject: Is that you Bjorn ? nt Message:

nt

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Dec 26, 2000 at 07:49:49 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: A question Subject: Get off your Ivory tower and come down to earth. Message:

There is no such a thing as being non judgmental, which what you are perpetuating to be. Neither there are two ways about Maharaji; he is a liar, a fraud and pathetic example of a human being. That being the case, we, the people that have been affected by him, think he is to be judged according to the law, in which, a case is being built agents him. Only a Premie will give him the second option of being a master. Are you a premie? If so, you know where you can shove your argument. If you're not a premie, then you're wasting you're time, because we intend to carry on the judgment. Salam

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Dec 26, 2000 at 07:09:26 (GMT) From: Stonor Email: None To: A question Subject: stupidity - your comments? Message:

You wrote: BTW,is there no one here hwo have done a punishable act and got away with it? Or did you all report yourself to the police. And did you take responsibility for you actions anyway? None of us ever claimed to be a spiritual master, let alone 'GOD.'

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Dec 26, 2000 at 20:53:15 (GMT) From: Jerry Email: None To: Stonor Subject: stupidity - your comments? Message:

None of us ever claimed to be a spiritual master, let alone 'GOD.' Nor did we run over somebody, dead, and then let one of our humble devotees take the fall for it. I'd say that's about as low as you can go, even for a Lord Of The Universe, eh? But nah, let's not be judgemental. Who are we to have an opinion on such matters when it concerns someone so mighty and high as the Perfect Master? How dare we! Surely, we're doomed to burn in hell for it.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Dec 26, 2000 at 06:12:20 (GMT) From: Bazza Email: bshaw8@bellsouth.net To: A question Subject: Megalomania or stupidity? Message:

Well I don't mean to answer on Patrick's behalf and Im not, but I'd like to say something to you if I may. First, those are fair-enough questions, I guess, all 3 of them, but if its something you feel sincere about, why dont you sign your post with your real name? This isnt meant to be confrontational, but I have to ask, how real is all this to you? Do you have something meaningful to add to the discussions, do you feel strongly about maharaji for or against, do you take responsibility for your action in posting here? If you answer yes to all those , then surely you can see how ludicrous it is not to stand up and be counted, and how powerless your argument is when you dont have the strength or courage to say who you are? Does that make sense? I think so. That out of the way, I said I agreed with Patrick's sentiments because aside from this 'bicycle' incident, he is trying to tell maharaji how he feels, why he is disillusioned and disappointed. Patrick is not the first to express those feelings and he certainly won't be the last. The fact that neither he, I or any other person who posts here has EVER received a reply from our 'master', or from an appointed subordinate, shows how little he cares. How do you explain that? What if it were you asking for help in that fashion? You know, if you intend to reply without giving your real name, you may as well not bother, because as I said, to do so deserves neither respect nor attention. But just try it, feel that commitment to your Master and stand proud before this worthless bunch, state your name and express your loyalty. You'll find it very liberating, I promise. Barry Shaw aka bazza

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Dec 26, 2000 at 05:07:43 (GMT) From: Bazza Email: None To: Patrick Subject: Excellent questions Message:

Why don't you email them to maharaji via his website, maybe even send them in to Elan Vital and Enjoying Life? I emailed him with my own feelings of disappointment, betrayal and sadness. Never received a reply of course, but there's always the chance that Somebody reads them and may start to feel the truth behind what is being expressed. I wonder if they rotate the mail readers to avoid this happening, or if they all just get deleted regardless of content?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Dec 26, 2000 at 08:08:49 (GMT) From: Steve Quint Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com To: Patrick, Bazza and Everyo Subject: Excellent questions Message:

I think these questions deserve delivery with signature of recipient or even better, an ad in the Malibu newspaper. I'd chip in. Steve

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Dec 26, 2000 at 19:12:36 (GMT) From: Bazza Email: None To: Steve Quint Subject: Interesting idea Message:

Do we have the mailing address? Any idea what ads cost in the Malibu Muckraker?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Dec 26, 2000 at 20:52:44 (GMT) From: Patrick Email: None To: Bazza Subject: Interesting idea Message:

Steve wrote: I think these questions deserve delivery with signature of recipient or even better, an ad in the Malibu newspaper. I'd chip in. Bazza replied:Do we have the mailing address? Any idea what ads cost in the Malibu Muckraker? If you're going to start publishing stuff I sincerely hope you're not considering using my post. I would object to that. Make up your own questions in your own words and do as you wish with them by all means. Patrick

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Dec 26, 2000 at 21:09:06 (GMT) From: Bazza Email: None To: Patrick Subject: Dont worry! Message:

Patrick I wouldnt dream of using your post. I've emailed m. with a similar set of questions, without reply and did wonder if mailing a hardcopy would be more effective. But then I guess if he has minions to read the email, he has others to do likewise with regular mail. I believe something was published in a newspaper one time, sort of an open letter. Wonder if there was any official response to that.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Dec 26, 2000 at 23:46:39 (GMT) From: JohnT Email: None To: Bazza Subject: Here's the link Message:

Here's a snippet I found with the Forum Search Engine. It works :-)) Date: Thurs, Aug 24, 2000 at 17:24:42 (GMT) From: MRC Member Dear VP: A group of us wrote an open letter to M, took an ad out in the Boston Phoenix for the week when M was appearing in Boston, with the hopes that premies in that area might see the ad and visit the site which was mentioned in the ad. The letter has caused a controversy, to say the least, in this forum. Here's the link to the letter: http://www.tigerriver.com/mletter.html

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Dec 27, 2000 at 04:07:51 (GMT) From: Marianne Email: None To: JohnT Subject: M not responding to letters Message:

There was indeed a letter published in Boston in advance of one of M's programs this year. Its authors dubbed themselves the Maharaji Responsibility Campaign. Joe, Jim and I were among those who helped draft the letter, although there were others, premie and ex-premie alike, who contributed to its content. I believe we are the only people who have publicly identified ourselves as having been a part of the MRC. There are many threads in the archives in which the letter was discussed. You can use Sir Dave's search engine to look them up if you are interested. Neither M nor EV ever formally responded to the letter. However, it was soon after that letter was published that EV posted the FAQ's on its website. In effect, the MRC letter generated the FAQ's, as they seem to be directly responsive to the issues raised in the Boston letter. Marianne

Return to Index -:- Top of Index