Jim -:- David Andersen on 'catalyst' -:- Mon, Oct 08, 2001 at 12:47:29 (EDT)

__ bill-fer allahs sake, -:- what 'beauty of the techniques'? -:- Mon, Oct 08, 2001 at 18:24:36 (EDT)

__ __ Susannah -:- Re: what 'beauty of the techniques'? -:- Mon, Oct 08, 2001 at 22:58:33 (EDT)

__ hamzen -:- Like some bad 50's ad -:- Mon, Oct 08, 2001 at 14:24:48 (EDT)

__ __ Francesca ~) -:- Dear Ham -- drum & bass (OT) -:- Mon, Oct 08, 2001 at 18:01:51 (EDT)

__ __ __ hamzen -:- Great music taste Francesca -:- Mon, Oct 08, 2001 at 22:37:55 (EDT)

__ Timmi -:- Re: David Andersen on 'catalyst' -:- Mon, Oct 08, 2001 at 13:33:22 (EDT)

__ __ Francesca :) -:- **BESt OF FORUM** [nt] -:- Mon, Oct 08, 2001 at 18:03:39 (EDT)

__ __ JohnT -:- YES! Thanks Timmi. [nt] -:- Mon, Oct 08, 2001 at 16:31:54 (EDT)

__ __ __ gerry -:- did goober massage dave with oil? [nt] -:- Mon, Oct 08, 2001 at 17:20:43 (EDT)

Date: Mon, Oct 08, 2001 at 12:47:29 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: All
Subject: David Andersen on 'catalyst'
Message:

Here's a repost of Andersen's satsang on 'Catalyst' from his cult apologist site, PleaseConsiderThis.com. The format is exactly what I left behind twenty years ago. A little folksy premable to show what a relatable and regular guy he is, turn on the fog machine:

Catalyst

It's a funny word. Cat-a-lyst.
Say it ten times out loud and it gets real funny.

Sorry, Dave, but it isn't and it doesn't. I can just see you sitting in front of a group of people and trying to force a little humour like this. How embarrassing! Mind you, we all did it. It's just that you CONTINUE to do it. Oh well....

Events, people, objects, thoughts: they are all catalysts, acting on humans to produce feelings. Everyone I know has a short list of what I call 'reliable catalysts to feel joy'. These are things that we produce, place ourselves in the 'line of,' or make happen. We know they will fairly reliably result in an internal experience of joy.

Oh my god, better get out the lab coats and clipboards. This is getting really interesting -- not! Really, how banal. And what's with this 'internal experience of joy'? Is that different than, say REGULAR joy? Anyway, you have to laugh at the premie (in other words, Maharaji-clone) way of trying to sound like you've got a real handle on something by making these broad -- ultimately useless, sweeping -- surveys of the human condition.

Some of my favorites:

The discrete personal-disclosure-and-braggadoccio section:

A steaming cup of world-class coffee, properly brewed.

read: I'm a man of quality. Now what I like and how to enjoy it. A new age yuppie indeed!

Playing music with gifted artists who listen and are generous, in front of a receptive audience.

read: I, too, am a gifted artist. If you play with me, be cool, eh? If you listen to me, be cool too. Thanks.

The Lakers, playing at their best.

read: I am not Jack Nicholson but I'm a bit LIKE Jack Nicholson. I'm cool, for one thing.

A bunch of men who know and love each other, joking around for an hour or so.

I'm no sissy. I might fawn over my fat runt of a guru but I am, in the end, a man's man, so much so that I can talk about how much love I have for my posse. These ah' ma' peepow.

Watching my children do something they passionately love.

read: Quality kids for a quality dad. That passionate love thing? Yeah, that's right. Who you think they got it from? Their mother??

The graceful curvature of women.

read: I am, after all, a man. Let's not forget that, huh?

Certain Impressionist paintings.

read: I'm not an egghead or anything, just a man of quality. Know what I mean?

A good cigar at the right time.

read: A Clinton supporter

'The Simpsons' TV show.

faultless

Tuning and preparing a fabulous piano.

I surround myself with quality. I'm an arbitrer of quality. Plus, I can play. Not bad, eh?

Writing a good song.

If I don't say so myself.

Big Sur.

Boring. .....

Babies who, looking deep into my eyes, laugh.

Oh my God! I just remembered some of the weird things premies believe about babies. How they're where we need to get back to and all that shit ..... Talk about Third Rock from the Sun

Parties with really good, bedrock, long-time friends.

Yes, and I have SOOOOOO many of those because, what'd I tell you? I'm a Quality Guy!

Laughing so hard, for so long, my stomach hurts.

WITH a great sense of humour, buy the way. Can you imagine this guy writing a personal ad?

There is one thing, however, which is more powerful, more reliable, and much simpler than my 'reliable catalysts' one thing that is the greatest gift I've ever been given.

This is the part where the smile drops, the schmaltzy music begins and Andersen turns to face a closer camera. How many of these satsangs did we endure? How many times did we do this weird dance ourselves?
It offers me true independence makes it so that I don't need to depend on lining stuff up on the outside to feel what I want to feel.
Yeah, Dave, you gotta stop lining up all those little babies and fabulous pianos, dude. It's Independence time!
Because the joy exists inside of me. The coffee, music, baby, or landscape don't beam the joy into me they catalyze a feeling that's already there, hidden. Waiting.

Ooooooh, this is getting too scientific for me!

The gift that Maharaji gave me, techniques to access what he calls Knowledge, are that greatest gift. When I practice the techniques in a sincere and committed way, they allow me to access the feeling I've longed for and worked hard to catalyze ever since I was born. Without having to depend on my 'reliable catalysts' for joy, I can experience their beauty with so much fun, so much gratitude. They become more precious to me because I know they could change at any time, and I know that if they do change, I can still be naturally and deeply connected to the source of joy inside.

So let me see, how about a REALLY good cigar? How about a REALLY nice set of curves? Are you saying that all you gotta do is hook up to that joy INSIDE -- not the other one -- and these things are gonna be even better? Alright!

For 28 years Maharaji has been relentless in reminding me that I have the potential to be my own man, to see my own beauty, to act and choose from the most honest, best-feeling place. He is, for me, the greatest catalyst; he has effected greater change and growth in me than any other person. He has treated me with unusual care and respect. He has demonstrated his love and concern for me in a practical way many, many times. I have made a tremendous number of mistakes in dealing with him and his work; he has never given me any reason to think he has taken it personally, or that his respect and concern for me has diminished. I believe he knows that I love him and am sincere, and he accepts that. This consistency of love, respect, and acceptance is unique in my life.

Quit throwing up that cotton candy, Dave. It's gross..... No, really, what's this got to do with anything? I came here especially to learn all about 'catalysts'. What happened? Started out great. You got right into the word, catalyst. This was really promising. But then all you did was flop into all that 'Maharaji blah blah blah .... gratitude' shit. I want to learn about catalysts!

His gift, Knowledge, is also unique in my life because it is a direct pipeline to the feeling, the experience, that I use my 'reliable catalysts' to produce. This, to me, is freedom, or the possibility of it. To enjoy and look forward to the pleasures of life without having to count on them for my joy is liberating and a source of immense comfort, because one thing has been made clear to me in 52 years of life on this planet: everything changes, and it behooves me to find the source of joy inside me.

Well you did use the word 'behoove' so I take back what I said about you being a bit stupid. No dummy's ever gonna use a word like that. Sheesh, I don't know WHAT to think now. Hm ... I guess your sincere message of love really moved me or something. Hey, like a cataylst. Like a real-live catalyst in my own life. I get it!

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Date: Mon, Oct 08, 2001 at 18:24:36 (EDT)
From: bill-fer allahs sake,
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: what 'beauty of the techniques'?
Message:

None of these guys will admit that they dont see a thing inside.
They dont hear a thing worth a squat.
They definately dont taste anything,
and I feel the breath more than him and it does no such shit he claims.

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Date: Mon, Oct 08, 2001 at 22:58:33 (EDT)
From: Susannah
Email: None
To: bill-fer allahs sake,
Subject: Re: what 'beauty of the techniques'?
Message:

You said it! I can tell you one thing, I see the 'light' every time I step into the shower. I also see it after coming inside on a sunny day. Have no clue about the celestial music. Man, if that is angelic music (sound of blood rushing through the temporal arteries), heaven will be pretty boring! And the nectar? Never anything tastier than post-nasal drip.

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Date: Mon, Oct 08, 2001 at 14:24:48 (EDT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Like some bad 50's ad
Message:

Are there any premies out there with really good taste, going for it, who are past that cool 70's newage/rock&roll posing?
I would love to have that concept blown but I doubt it.

Some mates dragged me out sat night after a very heavy month, not just the wtc, haven't felt like socializing, all words seemed pointless.
So it's a chill-out, and I'm quite happy just soaking it up, then the drum & bass hit the decks.
What a release, SOOO needed.
So I'm thinking would there be any ex-premies who could even get warm to the truth of this stuff, the only music I know that can take you through the centre of real anger/pain & passion, and come through the other side somewhere really expressive and not be denying all the bollocks of this world, ie the whole, dark AND light.
All I could come up with was Selene, you, Jethro, Heidi the cunt, and Robyn.
And yeah why pick on ex-premies, well I suppose I've found the wordy male abstractions of the last month here difficult, at a time as a lurker when I was hoping for more. But then I thought, what about premies, and laughed out loud, a rip roaring one, and really let rip on the dance floor with a passion.
Can you imagine a premie into drum&bass, what a joke. Ten minutes and they'd be calling it hate music, twenty and they'd be out of the building. Trance maybe, goa trance hippyshit, the odd one (like catweasel) who thinks he's cool, chill-out, a few more, but drum&bass, forget it.
Remembered me 15 years ago, when my tick list was almost identical to David Andersons, old before my time, yessirree.

And then the last thought in this mental thread was that, it might be too much for most exes, but some of 'em could ride with it a bit a least, Jerry, Gerry, even ~Scott came to mind, etc etc, you get my drift.

So much social wisdom that's around now, missed because they think everyones still stuck in the 70's like they are.

Sorry for the ramble but looks like I'm going into blogger mode at the mo.

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Date: Mon, Oct 08, 2001 at 18:01:51 (EDT)
From: Francesca ~)
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: Dear Ham -- drum & bass (OT)
Message:

Hamzen,

Don't listen to a lot of it, but it is great to dance to. A friend of mine is a musician, and went from ambient to jungle and drum & bass a few years ago. He got a kick out of watching me get lost in the groove several years ago before his own band played. I'm his mother's age, you understand, in a tied dyed shirt and overalls. So who do you like in that vein?

I know for the oldies (dinosaur music) you mentioned Nick Drake -- now he is one of my faves, as well as Richard Thompson. Also love Tim Buckley. For a while my husband and I were only listening to 'dead guys' (not RT, obviously).

--F

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Date: Mon, Oct 08, 2001 at 22:37:55 (EDT)
From: hamzen
Email: hamzen@hotmail.com
To: Francesca ~)
Subject: Great music taste Francesca
Message:

Definitely add your name to the list then.

Back in the day loved Fairport Convention, wasn't so keen on Thompsons solo stuff, Tim Buckley I still play occasionally, have always felt him in the skin.
But my mostest were Soft Machine, the Greatful Dead, Quicksilver, & Country Joe, Joni Mitchell, Neil Young and late 60's Miles Davis
throw in some Steve Miller and Hendrix too.

Keith Jarret, Pat Metheny and free jazz through my premie years, LOVED Albert Mangelsdorff and a lot of the european free jazz set, Archie Shepp, Albert Ayler, late Coltrane, but especially Ornette Coleman, and at the opposite end, Jimmy Giuffre and Paul Bley.

But the last ten years, well how many hours you got.
I've been into drum&bass since it was hardcore in '93, loved as in LOVED, LTJ Bukem & Goldie & Photek 94-96, I still think that was some of the deepest music ever made, nowadays more into the Optical/Ram label (they're just a couple of miles from me) tech step dark stuff, says more about the times if you know what I mean....

There's also some really interesting garage/drum&bass fusion going on over here inspired by djzinc and the true playaz crowd, serious booty big arse wobble music, but quite fluid too

On a slower tip, LOVE Leftfield, Circulation label house stuff, slower breakbeats fucked up stuff, and a bit of garage.

David Gray is the first non house/beatz related stuff coming out that's given me any real pleasure for years, a bit of Radiohead, a couple of the tracks on the David Gray album sound like Nick Drake tracks gently remixed, very moving.

You fancy doing some tape swaps, if you do my e-mails here for ya

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Date: Mon, Oct 08, 2001 at 13:33:22 (EDT)
From: Timmi
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: David Andersen on 'catalyst'
Message:

'''For 28 years Maharaji has been relentless in reminding me that I have the potential to be my own man, to see my own beauty, to act and choose from the most honest, best-feeling place. He is, for me, the greatest catalyst; he has effected greater change and growth in me than any other person. He has treated me with unusual care and respect. He has demonstrated his love and concern for me in a practical way many, many times. I have made a tremendous number of mistakes in dealing with him and his work; he has never given me any reason to think he has taken it personally, or that his respect and concern for me has diminished. I believe he knows that I love him and am sincere, and he accepts that. This consistency of love, respect, and acceptance is unique in my life.'''

I am so sick of hearing premies say that Maharaji truly loves them, or that the only one who truly loves them is Maharaji. Grow up, people. The only one, and I mean ONLY one rawat loves is himself. Grasp that reality, look honestly at your lives and at last start living them. Stop hanging about waiting for rawat to tell you that you can breath. Hey, guess what? You could breathe long before he came along and you will be able to breathe long after he goes. He doesn't care as long as he is comfy and has people fawning over him. That is it, folks. That is as real as he gets. Too bad there's not more to it than that, but there isn't.

Think about 'giving darshan'. Is that the action of someone who truly loves you? Do they ask, or even let, you get on your knees to them to kiss their feet? No, of course not. That is not what love is. Love is an equal thing. Darshan is abject adoration, and as such, more than a little sick. There is no love or respect involved in having people pranam to you and kiss your feet. It's an ego trip for the recipient of the action, nothing else. Maybe a pseudo-high for the devotee if he or she is completetely under the power and control of the cult leader, but there is nothing real there. It is impossible because it is an utterly unequal relationship. I would beg all premies to try and regain their own lives, and again, charge rawat with soul murder and get him away from innocent people.

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Date: Mon, Oct 08, 2001 at 18:03:39 (EDT)
From: Francesca :)
Email: None
To: Timmi
Subject: **BESt OF FORUM** [nt]
Message:

[nt]

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Date: Mon, Oct 08, 2001 at 16:31:54 (EDT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: Timmi
Subject: YES! Thanks Timmi. [nt]
Message:

[nt]

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Date: Mon, Oct 08, 2001 at 17:20:43 (EDT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: JohnT
Subject: did goober massage dave with oil? [nt]
Message:

[nt]

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