Chuck S. -:- A new website about Maharaji... -:- Tues, Sep 18, 2001 at 16:51:28 (EDT)

__ Francesca :C) -:- BRAVO! [nt] -:- Wed, Sep 19, 2001 at 01:05:43 (EDT)

__ Deborah -:- His UGMug made my head spin ()) -:- Tues, Sep 18, 2001 at 21:54:30 (EDT)

__ __ Silvia -:- Hey!! Wait a minute -:- Tues, Sep 18, 2001 at 23:13:33 (EDT)

__ __ __ Deborah -:- You like that one ()) -:- Tues, Sep 18, 2001 at 23:17:42 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ Loaf -:- can I try ()) [nt] -:- Wed, Sep 19, 2001 at 05:45:43 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ Silvia -:- ())())())())()) hahahahaha -:- Tues, Sep 18, 2001 at 23:21:13 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ trying -:- Re: ())())())())()) hahahahaha -:- Wed, Sep 19, 2001 at 09:17:29 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Try again -:- Re: ())())())())()) hooray -:- Wed, Sep 19, 2001 at 09:18:50 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ ()) -:- ;)())())())())()) hooray -:- Wed, Sep 19, 2001 at 10:56:00 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ ())())())())()) -:- Re: ;)())())())())()) hooray -:- Wed, Sep 19, 2001 at 13:13:19 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ ())())())())()) -:- Re: ;)())())())())()) hooray -:- Wed, Sep 19, 2001 at 13:13:00 (EDT)

__ Silvia -:- Thanks Chuck -:- Tues, Sep 18, 2001 at 17:58:21 (EDT)

__ Joe -:- Excellent...just what's needed ...FA? -:- Tues, Sep 18, 2001 at 17:09:58 (EDT)

__ __ Forum Janitor -:- Re: Excellent...just what's needed ...FA? -:- Tues, Sep 18, 2001 at 18:18:54 (EDT)

__ __ __ Deborah -:- That was FUNNY Gerry [nt] -:- Tues, Sep 18, 2001 at 21:56:34 (EDT)

__ Pat:C) -:- ...but I still prefer your old website -:- Tues, Sep 18, 2001 at 17:06:49 (EDT)

__ __ saucy -:- gurus suck -:- Tues, Sep 18, 2001 at 20:42:06 (EDT)

__ __ __ salam -:- Mr Willams=Charles? -:- Tues, Sep 18, 2001 at 23:03:13 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ How about... -:- Re: Mr Willams=David Anderson? -:- Tues, Sep 18, 2001 at 23:11:36 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ Suedoula -:- Re: Mr Willams=David Anderson? -:- Tues, Sep 18, 2001 at 23:59:46 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ Deborah -:- YES! Mr Willams=David Anderson? ~) -:- Tues, Sep 18, 2001 at 23:31:31 (EDT)

__ __ __ chas -:- Erika's 101 Reasons... -:- Tues, Sep 18, 2001 at 22:53:43 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ Hey this is an excellent post -:- JM, *****Best Of***** -:- Wed, Sep 19, 2001 at 11:46:21 (EDT)

__ __ __ Disculta -:- Hey Chuck -:- Tues, Sep 18, 2001 at 20:49:30 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ Chuck S. -:- M's websites... -:- Tues, Sep 18, 2001 at 23:06:18 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ Sure, here it is... -:- just click... -:- Tues, Sep 18, 2001 at 23:23:51 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ Miss PWK -:- How did you like that pic, Piggybai Ji -:- Tues, Sep 18, 2001 at 21:51:52 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ Piggybai Ji -:- Swooning -:- Wed, Sep 19, 2001 at 12:43:24 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Miss PWK -:- Dear Miss Piggybai -:- Wed, Sep 19, 2001 at 13:21:25 (EDT)

Date: Tues, Sep 18, 2001 at 16:51:28 (EDT) From: Chuck S. Email: None To: All Subject: A new website about Maharaji... Message:

It's interesting that all these cult apologist websites keep appearing, attacking expremies while never linking to any of our sites, while most of the exes sites freely link to theirs, because we know the 'information' they contain does not hold up to scrutiny. Here is a website about ALL websites about Maharaji: http://www.geocities.com/maharajiwatch/ [ MaharajiWatch ]

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Date: Wed, Sep 19, 2001 at 01:05:43 (EDT) From: Francesca :C) Email: None To: Chuck S. Subject: BRAVO! [nt] Message:

[nt]

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Date: Tues, Sep 18, 2001 at 21:54:30 (EDT) From: Deborah Email: None To: Chuck S. Subject: His UGMug made my head spin ()) Message:

Hee hee hee. I got freaked out when I saw that mug. It scared me. ~) So I stuck my tongue out at him and I felt better :) What a great page!! Let's add stuff to it. Nice job.

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Date: Tues, Sep 18, 2001 at 23:13:33 (EDT) From: Silvia Email: None To: Deborah Subject: Hey!! Wait a minute Message:

How did you made it spin????:0

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Date: Tues, Sep 18, 2001 at 23:17:42 (EDT) From: Deborah Email: None To: Silvia Subject: You like that one ()) Message:

do this () followed by another ). If I did it together, you'd only see the spinning head.

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Date: Wed, Sep 19, 2001 at 05:45:43 (EDT) From: Loaf Email: None To: Deborah Subject: can I try ()) [nt] Message:

[nt]

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Date: Tues, Sep 18, 2001 at 23:21:13 (EDT) From: Silvia Email: None To: Deborah Subject: ())())())())()) hahahahaha Message:

I read your mail: OHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! Somebody is going to get it and is not us....

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Date: Wed, Sep 19, 2001 at 09:17:29 (EDT) From: trying Email: None To: Silvia Subject: Re: ())())())())()) hahahahaha Message:

Try again ())())())())())())

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Date: Wed, Sep 19, 2001 at 09:18:50 (EDT) From: Try again Email: None To: trying Subject: Re: ())())())())()) hooray Message:

[nt]

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Date: Wed, Sep 19, 2001 at 10:56:00 (EDT) From: ()) Email: None To: Try again Subject: ;)())())())())()) hooray Message:

())

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Date: Wed, Sep 19, 2001 at 13:13:19 (EDT) From: ())())())())()) Email: None To: ()) Subject: Re: ;)())())())())()) hooray Message:

()) ()) ())()) ()) ())

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Date: Wed, Sep 19, 2001 at 13:13:00 (EDT) From: ())())())())()) Email: None To: ()) Subject: Re: ;)())())())())()) hooray Message:

()) ()) ())()) ()) ())

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Date: Tues, Sep 18, 2001 at 17:58:21 (EDT) From: Silvia Email: None To: Chuck S. Subject: Thanks Chuck Message:

Good job! :) LOL .....to the oposition.

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Date: Tues, Sep 18, 2001 at 17:09:58 (EDT) From: Joe Email: None To: Chuck S. Subject: Excellent...just what's needed ...FA? Message:

Can Charles' page be linked to the Forum? And EPO Admin, can it be linked from the EPO website as well? Thanks.

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Date: Tues, Sep 18, 2001 at 18:18:54 (EDT) From: Forum Janitor Email: None To: Joe Subject: Re: Excellent...just what's needed ...FA? Message:

Hi Joe, Sure I'll link to it. And I'll make a new hotmail email address for the forum and put that up too. (Don't know why I hadn't done this before.) A couple of folks have the forum password in case I slip on the soap and join shree hans in the cosmic bathtub...

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Date: Tues, Sep 18, 2001 at 21:56:34 (EDT) From: Deborah Email: None To: Forum Janitor Subject: That was FUNNY Gerry [nt] Message:

[nt]

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Date: Tues, Sep 18, 2001 at 17:06:49 (EDT) From: Pat:C) Email: None To: Chuck S. Subject: ...but I still prefer your old website Message:

[ You Too Can Be Satgooroo ]

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Date: Tues, Sep 18, 2001 at 20:42:06 (EDT) From: saucy Email: None To: Pat:C) Subject: gurus suck Message:

[nt]

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Date: Tues, Sep 18, 2001 at 23:03:13 (EDT) From: salam Email: None To: saucy Subject: Mr Willams=Charles? Message:

I think. But Buddah Baba knows better.

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Date: Tues, Sep 18, 2001 at 23:11:36 (EDT) From: How about... Email: None To: salam Subject: Re: Mr Willams=David Anderson? Message:

[nt]

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Date: Tues, Sep 18, 2001 at 23:59:46 (EDT) From: Suedoula Email: None To: How about... Subject: Re: Mr Willams=David Anderson? Message:

When I lived in Atlanta, David used to call himself Ol' Black Williams. Erika was Jehmima (SP? Don't remember why. Just thought you'd be interested in knowing. Best, Susan

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Date: Tues, Sep 18, 2001 at 23:31:31 (EDT) From: Deborah Email: None To: How about... Subject: YES! Mr Willams=David Anderson? ~) Message:

It's true. It's true. Sad, but true. What ugly posts he left and then he came back and acted civil. But he lost it after a day or two.

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Date: Tues, Sep 18, 2001 at 22:53:43 (EDT) From: chas Email: None To: saucy Subject: Erika's 101 Reasons... Message:

... are mostly the same reasons posted by 'Mr. Williams' on FV in June. He ignored my reply to his post. Here is my reply again (to give Erika a chance to ignore it, too) : Date: Mon, Jun 18, 2001 at 18:37:26 From: Chuck Sprague Email: bctanda@hotmail.com To: Everyone Subject: Mr. William's lists; a closer look... Message: Someone calling himself Mr. Williams posted some lists, in response to a post Joe made to Premies about why Elan Vital/Maharaji is a cult. It just scrolled into inactive before I could post this. The two lists Mr. Williams made, of things that are ''Promoted'' and ''Not Promoted'' by M. are interesting, especially when offered as examples of how EV/M is not a cult. I want to make a few comments about them. Regarding the things he claims M promotes:   Promoted… Daily practice of four techniques Enjoyment of life Freedom of choice Listening to teachings of living teacher Personal inner experience Personal responsibility Voluntary participation   This list is essentially the Knowledge Lite version of M and K, which is the ''for public consumption'' version offered to aspirants and which is how M and K are spoken of in the Introductory and Learning More series of videos. If only it really were that simple. That is what I kept telling myself, when I became involved in syncronised participation. That is how I really learned more, helping with the video library. There are a whole series of color coded videos which are supposed to slowly persuade, to lead the student from the perception of M as a teacher, to being both a teacher and a Master, to eventually accepting him as something much more than a teacher; The Master. And The Master is... well, ''You Know Who''. K-Lite is the first stepping stone on the path leading to Full Industrial Strength Devotional K. It's Bait-and-Switch; Bait them with the teacher; hook them on the simplicity; muddle the distinction between a teacher and a Master; then switch to THE Master, who's REALLY You-Know-Who. Back it up with scripture, then hitch up the wagon load of crap that goes along with THAT concept, all the while insisting that it isn't a concept, just the truth. And don't worry about the words, just concentrate on THAT feeling. (Didn't M once say, in the early days, that he came to the West to ''Kill the wicked witch of logic?'' Sounds like a slippery slope to me.) And if the individual never makes it all the way to Devotional Knowledge, that's O.K., because anyone who buys videos and sends money is useful too, just like I was for the better part of 20 years. But if you don't make it to ISDK, then the devotional stuff (''Think of Me when you die'', ''Don't go through the darshan line unless you're ready to show some RESPECT'', ''Sing Arti like you MEAN it.'') doesn't make a lot of sense. Devotional K, which is devotion to M, is what it IS all about. It explain's M's comments like ''NEVER doubt the purity of the Master.'' That is not the typical way one talks about a teacher. That's probably one reason why the dropout rate is so high.   Many of the things mentioned on Mr. W's ''Not Promoted'' list actually WERE actively promoted in the past. Things like:   Not Promoted...(!?!) Austerities, Practice of (in the Ashram) Coercion of any sort (Ashram) Communal living (Ashram) Compulsory financial contributions (Ashram) Free will, Surrender of (See the Knowledge Pledge) Harassment of ‘ex-members’ - (Pat Haley and the hammer incident? In more recent times, EV taking down ex's websites with claims of copyright infringement. Fortunately most of the sites were re-instated, after explaining to the ISP's who was complaining, and why. And EV still maintains on their website that they support free speech, while trying to silence their critics.) Hellfire & damnation, Belief in (M did a variation on this, with ''Rotting vegetables'' and ''smashed into a thousand pieces'', and other threats of insanity for those who leave the Master. M simply lies nowadays, claiming repeatedly that he NEVER said such things, despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary, and the fact that people remember things!) Holy relics, Belief in (What was that holy water, with the bits floating in it? Charnamit?) Mind control (The mind was the enemy, and had to be controled. Currently, it's called ''The Doubtmaker''.) Pressure not to ‘leave’ or to ‘return’ (Were not the Ashrams supposed to be a lifetime commitment?) Private lives, Interference in (M telling premies not to marry.) Self-sacrifice (Ashrams) Separating children from parents (Many parents lost custody of their children because they belonged to a cult) Sexual abstinence (Ashrams) Storage or consumption of bodily wastes (Really, what WAS that stuff, those bits floating around in the holy water? GROSS!)   Guess Mr. W forgot about those? But I suppose they don't count, because that happened in the past, and that's been revised, improved and evolved? But have things really changed, or is M just trying to have it both ways? Was K-Lite and the ashram closures merely a response to the increased cult-awarness that began with the Jonestown tragedy? Isn't cult-awarness the reason why the old devotional practices are not allowed to be photographed, are hidden from public view, done in secret in remote places and protected from scrutiny with smart-card memberships? How about some things that are STILL promoted, that are on Mr. W's ''Not Promoted'' list? Most noticably:   Conventional psychiatry, Antipathy towards (Perhaps M has softened his stance on this in recent times, but I recall many videos, and not old ones, where he ridicules any sort of self-help books. Clearly, M and K are supposed to be enough.) Course fees (exorbitant or otherwise), Payment of (Large fees for various ''trainings'' EV offers frequently. Chuchladies love to compare the trainings they've had with other churchladies, to see who's done the most and if they should do more.) Intellectual ability, Need for special (I agree with this one. No special intellectual ability needed, or encouraged.) Rule books (The contents of many of EV's manuals are published on EPO. The committee meetings and video events are all highly controlled, with rules, and guidelines and proceedures for everything. That is what all these ''trainings'' are about. Rules, rules, and more rules, to make sure we are all ''syncronized and talking about K and M in the same way, at the same time''. Can you say ''Cult''?) Scriptures, Authority based on interpretation of (M has used scriptures more and more, to talk about the Master, in case anyone is not clear on what the Master really is, and that he is actually ''You-Know-Who''. Really Mr. Williams, when is the last time you actually listened to M speak? Haven't you been Keeping In Touch?) Special jewellery or accessories - (Of COURSE there is Special Jewelry, and Accessories that boggle the mind! Gee, aren't you even on the mailing list, Mr. Williams? Or don't you ever read the Divine Catalogs? Aren't you interested in enhancing your spoon collection? Don't you donate money or buy videos? The catalogs are sent to everyone who does.) Therapy sessions - (Indeed, they are NOT promoted. For good reason. Any therapist worthy of the name, apon hearing about the mind-fuck their client has been put through via M and K, will tell their client they are in a Cult.) And the references to wacky New Age stuff that are not promoted is no doubt meant to be funny (and is), but the funniest thing about it is, that many premies DO believe in that stuff, wether M promotes it or not. We have all seen this, in many of the premie posts on EPO. Guru ju-ju and New Age thinking fit together well, apparently.   The rest of the items on the list, yes, they make M seem like an easy cult, that doesn't make demands in many area's of your life. That's really a big part of it's appeal. M doesn't care if you drink or smoke or have sex. He doesn't care what you do with your personal life, as long as you are devoted to him as your Master, you keep his secrets, and you support him in a syncronized way so he doesn't have to do any real work, and can just live of donations like a playboy millionaire. Don't ask, don't tell. And he dosen't even know your name, and he doesn't WANT to know.   If that is what you want Mr. Williams, then go for it. Your choice. But please don't come here and whine about us not liking it. Such hit-and-run posts are too boring, too tiresome. I think Deborah is right, it seems like you just want to think of us as defective so you won't have to look at the truth.   Instead of claiming EV/M isn't a cult anymore because of what it doesn't do, how about honestly looking at what it does do? How about looking at Joe's post about the universal traits of a cult? Can you honestly say the shoe doesn't fit?   Worse than being in a cult, is to be in one and not know it.

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Date: Wed, Sep 19, 2001 at 11:46:21 (EDT) From: Hey this is an excellent post Email: None To: chas Subject: JM, *****Best Of***** Message:

[nt]

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Date: Tues, Sep 18, 2001 at 20:49:30 (EDT) From: Disculta Email: None To: saucy Subject: Hey Chuck Message:

What about including the other MJ websites like Elan Vital and his personal one? Wouldn't this make your site more non-partisan? Great job - I enjoyed surfing around what you did. love ktd

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Date: Tues, Sep 18, 2001 at 23:06:18 (EDT) From: Chuck S. Email: None To: Disculta Subject: M's websites... Message:

Under the list I explain that all of M's official websites can be found on page one of Roger's site. I didn't want to repeat them all on the new site, as they are on many of the listed sites already. But I suppose I shall have to list them, too. It is a web directory, after all, so I should make it as complete as possible. Does anyone have the URL to Michelle Deradune's website? I remember it was kinda kooky, but I admired her spirit in saying what she wanted to say. If anyone remember's any other premie or ex-premies sites that I've left out, do let me know. The more the merrier.

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Date: Tues, Sep 18, 2001 at 23:23:51 (EDT) From: Sure, here it is... Email: None To: Chuck S. Subject: just click... Message:

This is fun... Love.... [ HERE..... ]

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Date: Tues, Sep 18, 2001 at 21:51:52 (EDT) From: Miss PWK Email: None To: Disculta Subject: How did you like that pic, Piggybai Ji Message:

Isn't our Master so beautiful. Even now with the lines of worry on his shining face and the unfortunate bloating caused by the fact that we cause him so much pain that he has to drink a lot? Some hateful manmut said to me that he looked greedy and selfish and debauched but as Shri Hans said ''devotion without Knowledge is blind.'' PatC: I wonder if that means that most premies don't have knowledge?

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Date: Wed, Sep 19, 2001 at 12:43:24 (EDT) From: Piggybai Ji Email: None To: Miss PWK Subject: Swooning Message:

How did I like the pic? Let me count the ways! I see a love of all diversity reflected in the texture of His skin. Barely controlled rage seething in his smokey eyes at the evil Manmut forces of mind that He has to deal with as He combats them in all of us on a daily basis. And the expansion --- oh the expansion of that visage, in lo these many years, which of course symbolizes his expanding enlightenment. How can these unfortunate humans formerly known as premies (hufkaps) even stand or hold up their heads in the face of this potent darshan? I feel so sorry for them that they are missing 'that opportunity' to roll in shit Love Ms Piggybai, former instructor, now promoted to divine toilet cleaner

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Date: Wed, Sep 19, 2001 at 13:21:25 (EDT) From: Miss PWK Email: None To: Piggybai Ji Subject: Dear Miss Piggybai Message:

What the hell is a hufkap?

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