Sir Dave -:- Well that does it -:- Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 01:48:35 (EST)

__ fly on wall in k session -:- scuttlebutt on dvd 'k' etc. -:- Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 08:31:10 (EST)

__ __ Boadicea -:- Absofuckinlutely!!!(nt) -:- Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 01:05:08 (EST)

__ __ wolfie -:- it's so perfect!!!!! -:- Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 06:13:57 (EST)

__ __ Tonette -:- I want you to know.... -:- Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 03:24:32 (EST)

__ __ Brian Smith -:- Ahoy there mate, thanks for throwing the life ring [nt] -:- Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 18:00:47 (EST)

__ __ Francesca -:- **Best of FORUM** fly aye, aye! -:- Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 17:36:59 (EST)

__ __ Jim -:- Yes, Fly, great post for sure [nt] -:- Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 16:27:29 (EST)

__ __ Joe -:- Similar to what I'm hearing -:- Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 15:02:30 (EST)

__ __ PatC -:- Brilliantly said, Fly! [nt] -:- Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 14:25:09 (EST)

__ __ JHB -:- Great Post, Fly! -:- Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 13:57:42 (EST)

__ JHB -:- Dave, you're up early/late! -:- Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 01:56:50 (EST)

__ __ Sir Dave -:- Nothing so spectacular -:- Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 07:27:33 (EST)

__ __ __ AJW -:- St Peters Church Hall. -:- Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 08:15:14 (EST)

__ __ __ __ berni -:- Re: St Peters Church Hall. -:- Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 10:13:15 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Re: St Peters Church Hall. -:- Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 14:29:50 (EST)

Date: Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 01:48:35 (EST)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Well that does it
Message:

Well that does it. Paid actors showing people how to introduce people to K. Jesus Christ!

As Chris wrote:

''It was the same basic script repeated about 6 times with only a few variations in the LINES DELIVERED each time. And very minor variations at that, which to me, says the whole thing is really groping.

Introducing the possibility of K has been reduced to the art of delivering lines.....''

I'm sorry but I can't believe anyone can be left in this ridiculous little cult club. Remember when THAT POWER used to talk through us...

Maharaji clearly thinks that premies are morons. He has no respect for them. It's over.

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Date: Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 08:31:10 (EST)
From: fly on wall in k session
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: scuttlebutt on dvd 'k' etc.
Message:

Having left in the last few years, I am still privy to a lot of the premie undercurrents in the community.
My friends who are still in the cult will tell me things, especially complaints, that they won't voice in other places in the cult.

My take on things is this:

There are of course the church ladies, the true believers, although even some of them are getting a little impatient and wary of some of the new, everchanging 'agya'.
But they are still regular church goers, attend guru worship servies somewhat regularly, and tithe to soothe the little voice which says 'But just suppose he really is who he says he is in India & amaroo? A few bucks a week keeps me covered just in case he is the lord'.

And of course, every community has it's 'Industrial Strength Church Ladies' who will go to the grave pranaming while singing arti and hunting and pecking for scraps of 'bog prasad' and a quick glimpse of the lotus toes.
Ira Woods once said that the faith a premie needs to have is something like this: If maharaji makes a public announcement that he's not the perfect master, and is a total fraud, you would still have the faith and experience to keep on practicing.
Oh well, Ira will have his plot next to the captains on the sacred burial site with the kangaroos and wallabees and billibongs...

So, we have 'ISCL's' who will be there until the end. A few in each community, almost always tied into some 'special connection' to either the physical or personal scene around the captain, with hopes of some personal time with 'you know who', and experiencing 'you know what'.
Down from that,regular old church ladies. There is an increasing, although respectfully quiet undercurrent amongst many of the church gals that things are getting a bit ridiculous at this point, and that perhaps something is not all it once was in premieville, usa.
I think the 'Little boy who cried wolf' syndrome is setting in on them, although it is only talked about in hushed whispers or after a few beers. Money is still donated, but the eyebrows are raising and shoulders shrugging. Some complaints have been heard about the captains singing and filmmaking skills and more than one church lady has remarked that m should stay with the day job, and also get his family out of the way. It's really starting to look like the Osmond family meets Jim and Tammy at the glass cathedral with Dr. Schuller on acid or something like that.
(What should be noted here is that the blame for anything weird or just plain wrong,ie.unethical, is still ALWAYS laid at the feet of EV, and not the feet of 'you know who'.)
M is clever, but unfortunately for him, the epo site is more subtle and more clever. Too many people have seen and heard too much of the same old song, and the internet is quite a tool. I guess that the guru who lives by technology, dies by technology.

Elsewhere in the community the 'regulars' attend once every week or two, throw in a few bucks, and wait for the next 'announcement', although I sense that the spirit is definitely cooling off on going all over the globe to listen to new age fluff for 45 minutes with videos of flowers and clouds.... even catching a flight to another city is also being weighed against more practical realities.

The final stage has arrived: the onset of the paralysis has set in, manifesting as some sort of vapid digital new age feel good religion.
Nothing is said, beyone 'have a nice spiritual day'...no great claims, except for once in awhile when m still admonishes and reminds the faithful about who he 'probably is, or at least could be', of course masked behind some silly statement that allows him a plausible escape hatch to squirm out of.
Quoting Kabir about devotion is a perfect example. Of course m is telling the faithful what they should be doing and feeling, while at the same time he can always make it look like he's just quoting some Indian saint to the new person. He can also say that HE never said that stuff, that Kabir did. Of course, he didn't mean it entirely literally (while performing the 5th technique-tongue in cheek).
Playing the instrumental version of arti or some old tear jerker from one foundation is another perfect example. To the new premie or aspirant,it just sounds like new age elevator music, but to the old time premie it's a subtle, yet very powerful reminder that he 'is who he is', just between you and him though.

It all gets sillier and sillier.
A 30 year old paradigm is dissolving before our eyes.
It is a fine time to be on the lifeboats with dry land firmly in sight, as the captain and the orchestra play on, the good ship maharaji going down, and the church ladies are rearranging the deck chairs to get the best view of a sinking ship that still vows to go on.

Thank god for the internet and the human conscience.

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Date: Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 01:05:08 (EST)
From: Boadicea
Email: None
To: fly on wall in k session
Subject: Absofuckinlutely!!!(nt)
Message:

[nt]

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Date: Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 06:13:57 (EST)
From: wolfie
Email: None
To: fly on wall in k session
Subject: it's so perfect!!!!!
Message:

that's the way it goes, what goes up must come down.

like your post..............ciao wolfie

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Date: Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 03:24:32 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: fly on wall in k session
Subject: I want you to know....
Message:

Hey there, mister fly on the wall,

I liked your post and for whatever it's worth, I printed out a copy in my 'packet,' of your post that I have just mailed to my cult inflicted friends.
Let's only hope that it has reality and influence. I'll let you know. Your post was not for want, and I thought it was well written.

Thanks, Tonette

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Date: Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 18:00:47 (EST)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: fly on wall in k session
Subject: Ahoy there mate, thanks for throwing the life ring [nt]
Message:

[nt]

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Date: Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 17:36:59 (EST)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: fly on wall in k session
Subject: **Best of FORUM** fly aye, aye!
Message:

[nt]

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Date: Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 16:27:29 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: fly on wall in k session
Subject: Yes, Fly, great post for sure [nt]
Message:

Fly,

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Date: Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 15:02:30 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: fly on wall in k session
Subject: Similar to what I'm hearing
Message:

Very good analysis, Fly.

I have heard much the same thing. Many premies who used to die to do 'particpation' whenever possible, are pulling back because they are questioning the whole trip. They maybe aren't willing to question M himself yet, just that what goes on in the organization and in relation to the physical manifestation of his 'mission' are just useless, painful, wasteful exercises running in circles.

Plus, they are extremely embarrassed by M's website, by ELK, by many of the 'videos' and the publications, and hence tell NOBODY about M or K, despite feeling kind of guilty for not doing so. The KITS and the way they were presented, were particular reasons for embarrassment, and this is a difficult thing because M's presentation of how to 'propagate', came directly from him, not from some EV idiot.

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Date: Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 14:25:09 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: fly on wall in k session
Subject: Brilliantly said, Fly! [nt]
Message:

[nt]

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Date: Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 13:57:42 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: fly on wall in k session
Subject: Great Post, Fly!
Message:

From your position is there any evidence of serious anger towards EPO and ex-premies? To be honest, I'm surprised CAC and it's milder siblings are all that Maharaji has thrown at us.

John from behind the anti-cult maginot line deep in the forest.

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Date: Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 01:56:50 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Dave, you're up early/late!
Message:

You posted this at 6:50 UK time. Was it a good party or have you become a farmer/milkman?

Yes, the cult is getting more and more absurd. I left three years ago this month having read EPO and given Maharaji a little rational thought for the first time. I wonder how I would have reacted to K by DVD and the Trainings had I not left.

John.

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Date: Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 07:27:33 (EST)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Nothing so spectacular
Message:

Nothing so spectacular as an all night party or milkman job. I got up to go to the toilet.

I then went back to bed and dreamt that I was in Saint Peter's Church Hall in Belsize Park where I asked a premie if I was on the list to see M at the next program. I wasn't on the list and he (the premie) was embarrassed because it meant I was not an ''official'' premie and there must be something wrong, i.e. I had committed some premie sin like criticising M or thinking for myself or maybe not training or participating.

I was glad I wasn't on the list though.

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Date: Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 08:15:14 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: St Peters Church Hall.
Message:

Hi Dave,

I remember St Peters Church Hall well. It was the first public satsang programme I ever went to. Ashokanand and Bhole-Ji turned up. Bhole-Ji mumbled for 15 minutes, sending the premies into ecstasy- him being the living incarnation of Vishnu or something.

Anyway, like an acid scrambled, mystical, truth-seeking hippy, I fell for it. It was the moment the fly flew into the web.

Thank God it was all a dream.

Take care Dave.

Anth the flyboy.

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Date: Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 10:13:15 (EST)
From: berni
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Re: St Peters Church Hall.
Message:

On my list of Halls of Devotional meetings I would have been better off not attending.
Noted for the particularly hard-on-the-bum floor.
Only time that I was not conscious of the pain was during an interesting Mike Finch satsang.
Of course the main venue in those parts was Belsize Park - where many a Bhole Shri was heard and blissed out premies were seen aimlessly wandering the streets late into to the night ( well around 9.30 pm when they threw us out)
Then there was Fulham Town Hall where we were treated to a guest member of the Holy Family each night for what seemed like years ( you couldn't take a night off when that was going on )
Then there was Kensington Town Hall and in the early days some place up at Notting Hill where I remember you, Anth giving an amusing Satsang ( but a bit scary 'cos you were a teacher )
And of course Acton Town Hall,
Ealing Town Hall,
Red Lion Square,
the Palace of Peace,
and numerous Hotel conference rooms, community centres and ... ooh I wish I'd never started now.
All best forgotten.
But thanks for jolting the memory anyway.
berni

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Date: Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 14:29:50 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: berni
Subject: Re: St Peters Church Hall.
Message:

Yes, Mike Finch gave good satsang. The last time I was in St Peter's was in 78 just before coming to the US and the preacher that night was the Rev David Smith. The audience just loved him. He almost seemed to have a dry wit.

Then I came to the US and found out that what appeared to be dry wit was simply dessicated emotions. Sorry, David. I hope you grow up one day.

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