Joe Whalen -:- To Elan Vital - Good Will Gestures -:- Tues, Aug 28, 2001 at 14:30:03 (EDT)

__ Jim -:- Yeah, and while you're at it -:- Tues, Aug 28, 2001 at 15:00:49 (EDT)

__ __ Cynthia -:- You guys are pissin' in the wind... -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 13:49:43 (EDT)

__ __ __ Selene -:- something I love about this forum -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 16:02:25 (EDT)

__ __ Joy -:- Why he will never retract that claim -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 03:24:00 (EDT)

__ Richard -:- Re: To Elan Vital - Good Will Gestures -:- Tues, Aug 28, 2001 at 14:47:24 (EDT)

__ __ Pat:C) -:- More whirled peas -:- Tues, Aug 28, 2001 at 15:12:02 (EDT)

__ __ __ Silvia Sommer -:- Me too -:- Tues, Aug 28, 2001 at 22:14:57 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- will read email. Thanks [nt] -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 00:11:13 (EDT)

__ __ __ janet schwartz -:- I STAND WITH THESE. I SECOND THIS. [nt] -:- Tues, Aug 28, 2001 at 20:25:48 (EDT)

Joseph A. Whalen -:- To Elan Vital, Maharaji and Everyone -:- Tues, Aug 28, 2001 at 12:46:03 (EDT)

__ Gail MacDougall -:- Re: To Elan Vital, Maharaji and Everyone -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 13:44:01 (EDT)

__ SC -:- So your posts were all made up were they? -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 02:37:17 (EDT)

__ __ janet -:- you? in'the real world'?!???? -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 15:43:46 (EDT)

__ __ __ SC -:- Wrong, In my world my opinion is everything -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 01:36:46 (EDT)

__ __ Cynthia -:- TO SC...FUCK OFF... -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 14:11:58 (EDT)

__ __ Joe -:- Some were, some weren't -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 10:35:56 (EDT)

__ __ __ SC -:- Trouble is Joe... -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 01:47:39 (EDT)

__ __ Joe -:- Excuse Me?? -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 10:33:29 (EDT)

__ Mercedes -:- Re: To Elan Vital, Maharaji and Everyone -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 02:32:38 (EDT)

__ VC -:- Re: To Elan Vital, Maharaji and Everyone -:- Tues, Aug 28, 2001 at 22:56:41 (EDT)

__ Silvia -:- Everyone, read- Good post! NT -:- Tues, Aug 28, 2001 at 22:28:05 (EDT)

__ Carl -:- Bravo. A call for respecting free speech. -:- Tues, Aug 28, 2001 at 14:50:47 (EDT)

__ __ Jim -:- I imagine the EV monitors have to breathe heavy -:- Tues, Aug 28, 2001 at 15:14:34 (EDT)

__ __ __ Nigel -:- Actually two monitors have quit.. -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 06:23:12 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ SC -:- You mean -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 09:08:26 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ Bin Liner -:- So , you're an Englidh -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 19:23:08 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Bin Liner -:- Re: So , you're an English operative . -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 19:34:40 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- No. [nt] -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 11:30:48 (EDT)

__ __ __ VC -:- Delusional :( -:- Tues, Aug 28, 2001 at 23:09:08 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ janet -:- Re:stalkers -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 16:01:34 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- SC you are a 1st class coward -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 14:23:48 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- VC/SC...all the same to me n/t -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 14:25:25 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ Silvia -:- YOU Delusional :( V -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 09:39:16 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ Steve -:- Re: Delusional :( -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 03:23:03 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ Jim -:- You have no credibility, do you? -:- Tues, Aug 28, 2001 at 23:23:16 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- You're a saint, Jim -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 00:15:31 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Silvia -:- amusing to our minds -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 09:43:59 (EDT)

__ Pat:C) -:- Beautifully written Joe -:- Tues, Aug 28, 2001 at 13:47:29 (EDT)

__ witheld -:- **Best of Forum, Joe Whalen*** [nt] -:- Tues, Aug 28, 2001 at 13:03:37 (EDT)

Date: Tues, Aug 28, 2001 at 14:30:03 (EDT)
From: Joe Whalen
Email: None
To: All
Subject: To Elan Vital - Good Will Gestures
Message:

To Elan Vital:

In my message below, I talked about how the events of the past weeks might be used in a positive fashion to reduce the level of animosity and fear that exists between followers and ex-followers of Maharaji.

A couple of good will gestures might really help in reducing the feelings of hostility on both sides and help people talk to each other in a more measured, reasonable tone.

I understand that the EPO website has changed the heading on the front page about Mahatma Jagdeo and the sexual molestation of children that is claimed to have been inflicted by him. The former title: 'Harboring a Peadophile' has been removed, at the request of Elan Vital, given that there is a difference of view as to whether anything like 'harboring' took place.

Now, it has to be acknowlwedged that I understand this was done under the threat of a lawsuit by Elan Vital against the website, but it was done nonetheless, and as I understand it, it was the first time Elan Vital ever requested a change to the EPO website, and the change was done, without any lawsuit having been filed, to my knowledge. Okay, let's call it a 'good will gesture' because Elan Vital made a request, and the people who run the EPO website complied.

So, would it be possible to see a similar gesture on the part of Elan Vital? It might go a long way, even a small gesture, to calm things down, and what I am suggesting is an extremely small gesture.

The suggested change is probably innocuous in the scheme of things, but it's to some statements that I find personally offensive in the FAQs on the Elan Vital website. I know that issues about whether or not Maharaji is running a cult or whether Maharaji ever claimed to be God and the like, are hot button issues that we will probably never agree on. But how about how Elan Vital talks about the ashrams? You say the following:

The early Indian organization that supported Maharaji’s teachings brought with it to the West many Hindu based practices, including vegetarianism and ashram (monastic type) living.

These concepts were soon abandoned, and eventually disbanded...The 70s were a time when many young people embraced the values of what came to be known as the ‘drug culture’. The ‘ashrams’, which literally mean shelters, were established to provide people with an environment for serious and focused effort to pursue the benefits of Knowledge. Maharaji, at that time, though a young teenager, was recognized by several US states for the significant effect his teaching was having in leading people away from the ‘drug culture’. As such, ashrams worked for a while precisely because of what was going on socially in the era in which they came about, but at no time were they mandatory... (emphasis added)

Can this please be changed? Maybe the person who wrote it is a relatively new PWK, or maybe they just don't write very clearly, or maybe it's a mistake, I don't know.

Maybe they weren't around in the 70s and 80s when Maharaji's ashrams existed in the West. But come on. Everybody who was around them, especially the thousands of us who lived in the ashrams know, they were not created or maintained to save us from drugs. That's just plain not true, and the reason I find it personally offensive is that I was there, I lived in the ashram for over 8 years, and no one ever said, most of all Maharaji, that the ashrams were for that purpose. And I never had a problem with drugs to begin with, so it's even more offensive to me personally.

So, I would like to suggest that you just quietly drop that section. You don't have to explain why, you don't have write anything else, just drop it. It's no big deal, but it means a lot to me and others who sincerely dedicated ourselves in Maharaji's ashrams and it's demeaning to describe what we did there in such trivial terms. But the main thing is it might go a long way to show some good will on your part, and begin a new era of better relations among all of us, and perhaps in response to the changes EPO has made. What do you say?

Consider this an official request on behalf of former followers of Maharaji who used to live in his ashrams that that FAQ be removed. I think you would find that many of your current members would be happy, and less embarrassed, as well.

Whaddya say? EPO did what you asked, how about doing the same? Good will gesture? Reduce the tension?

Joe Whalen

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Date: Tues, Aug 28, 2001 at 15:00:49 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Joe Whalen
Subject: Yeah, and while you're at it
Message:

Yes, good suggestion, Joe.

EV, while you're at it, would you also consider changing the FAQ comments about Maharaji claiming to be God? The evidence is overwhelming, as evidenced in the EPO quotes section, that Maharaji most definitely claimed to be God. Think of the needless hostility and lost credibility you'd avoid if you simply admitted that fact.

It's like Congressman Gary Condit. All he had to do was admit the obvious, in his case that he'd had a sexual relationship with Chandra Levy, and he would have robbed his critics of one of their easiest arguments against him, that being that he's clearly a liar.

Maharaji most definitely claimed to be God. You know it, he knows it, we know it. Everyone who's ever heard of the guy knows it. So why not admit the facts and proceed from there? I know, Maharaji's got all sorts of explanations as to why he might have made such claims. Fine. He can offer them and people can assess them for themselves. But this blatant denial of such obvious facts .... how do you expect any of us to get along in the face of such insults.

See, EV, what you have to appreciate is that Maharaji's past is not just his. It's ours as well. Sure, he was the guy on the stage, the guy in the pictures, the anything and everything, all that. But to the extent that we were really alive then, autonomous, real people, that was our story too. What we have with Maharaji is a shared history. He doesn't own it, nor do you. Sometimes when I hear Maharaji or some premie say 'enjoy it if you want and, if not, just leave' I get the impression that ex-premies are being asked to leave their memories at the door along with their Smart Cards. As if walking means that one's forfeited the right to comment upon, question and, yes, criticize that common past. But I'm sorry, EV, only cults have such little respect for their members. We were real people then.

Or, to pick up on Joe's example above, yes, we lived in Maharaji's ashrams but those were our ashrams too. That's where we lived our lives. Our lives, not his. So when you or Maharaji lie about our common past you're lying about us and, yes, that infuriates. If EV's not a cult then prove it by showing some respect for other people. Don't lie and cover up our past, even going so far as to call us mad for standing by it. Do, rather, join us on some common ground, namely, that same common past we shared, and maybe then we can talk to each other with something akin to mutual respect.

On the other hand, if Maharaji or his premies continue to lie about my past, I can't help but take that as a personal insult. Respect, then, is out of the question and the communication reflects that fact.

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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 13:49:43 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: You guys are pissin' in the wind...
Message:

And I'll tell you why....

First of all, Maharaji is a sick fucker. He's a sociopath, a megalomaniac and you are asking for something he will never, I repeat, never grant. He is probably on his yacht having a great time right now. That's what pisses me off.

Second of all, Maharaji only loves himself (but not really, no one who is so self-deluded can ever claim self-love). He covers his ass quite well. EV shields him because it's supposed to shield him. That's EV's purpose.

I just got curious and went over to Lifes (sic) Great. I cannot imagine what any expremie could possibly benefit from going over there. I feel like I need another shower and I've already had my daily bath. The crap on that forum is simply that: shit, fecal matter being spouted by cult members who are ignorant because they are infested with Maharajism.

I know I wasn't singled out on CAC. I wish I were because I have information about the issue that still haunts me and that's DECA. I know, I know...it's probably been hashed and rehashed. But the fact of the matter is, that there were hundreds of premies, including myself, who were used and abused there. Where are they now?

I'd like to open that can of worms. DECA. A slave factory for the Lord of the Universe. The few posts I read over on LG made me want to puke. The nerve of anyone, any premie, nice or not nice, to say that those of us who have left Maharaji ''didn't have the seed implanted correctly,'' or never devoted themselves enough is so far beyond the truth I just want to FREAK OUT!

There's one thing I've learned about Maharaji since I became an ex-premie. He doesn't care about anything but himself. He just doesn't. He would rather lie, betray, collect money from premies and aspirants to add to his wealth than ever tell the truth about himself.

And he's well protected. Face it, he's never going to do what we want him to do and that is to fess up about his past. He'll never admit to anything he's done wrong (and that's a lot) because it doesn't serve HIS purpose.

Do you see what I mean? And this Jihad shit (I really hate that word). Doesn't that mean ''Holy War?'' This is no holy war. This is a campaign of hate and self-defense on the part of a CULT because of those of us who have placed ourselves in a vulnerable position because we've published our real names.

I have nothing to hide. I have nothing to fear. I will continue to complain about the injustices served upon us by that creep, Rawat.

When I was exiting the LG site, I said to myself, ''this is just like arguing with a drunk.'' The drunk is Maharaji, and the intoxicant is Maharajism, all the traps, all the trappings, all of the missinformation and all of the betrays and lies.

I lived in DECA. Lived there. Where are all those DECA folks? Where are all the premies who were hurt there?

Sorry for rambling...I'm just very sick of the premies right now who think they know something about Maharaji and his cult, and feel qualified to judge us exes.

And another thing....who are all these anonymous posters here? I can't tell one from the other! Can everyone please, continue to use your handle or names? This is getting really stupid.

Cynthia

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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 16:02:25 (EDT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: something I love about this forum
Message:

whichever version. And that is watching someone grow and work through the exiting, the anger. Or is it just watching good changes happen? Your posts have been great Cynthia! And I'm especially appreciative of the ones today because of personal crap as well as the aftermath of all that's happened here.
I agree with your post above regarding M, etc.

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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 03:24:00 (EDT)
From: Joy
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Why he will never retract that claim
Message:

These are excellent posts, Joe and Jim.

Maharaji will NEVER retract the claim that he was God (or Greater than God, to be exact) for the simple reason that he still believes it. It's still the basis upon which his cult functions today, even though it's well hidden and disguised. I can't see that ever happening as it would dry up his income stream instantaneously and he might have to curtail his lifestyle a little bit, which would be a bitter pill to swallow indeed.

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Date: Tues, Aug 28, 2001 at 14:47:24 (EDT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Joe Whalen
Subject: Re: To Elan Vital - Good Will Gestures
Message:

Joe, both of your posts are right on and well written. It never hurts to extend an olive branch for peace. 'Peace on earth begins within you' is the way the slogan went I believe.

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Date: Tues, Aug 28, 2001 at 15:12:02 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: More whirled peas
Message:

Also, Rev Rawat, could you tell thousands of fringe premies who have not had the benefit of the ''evolution'' of your religion from Hindu to New Age, that they will not turn into rotting vegetables if they leave you. Many people are still suffering terrible mental and spiritual anguish, guilt and superstition because of that statement of yours.

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Date: Tues, Aug 28, 2001 at 22:14:57 (EDT)
From: Silvia Sommer
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Me too
Message:

Please maharaji, tell us it is not so.

Supertition affects the subconscient mind and that is why you gurus do it; is a manipulation technique to control people, maharaji. Isn't?

Hi Pat! Read your e-mail. :)

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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 00:11:13 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Silvia Sommer
Subject: will read email. Thanks [nt]
Message:

[nt]

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Date: Tues, Aug 28, 2001 at 20:25:48 (EDT)
From: janet schwartz
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: I STAND WITH THESE. I SECOND THIS. [nt]
Message:

[nt]

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Date: Tues, Aug 28, 2001 at 12:46:03 (EDT)
From: Joseph A. Whalen
Email: kevjo@mindspring.com
To: All
Subject: To Elan Vital, Maharaji and Everyone
Message:

August 28, 2001

Dear Elan Vital Board of Directors, Prem Pal Singh Rawat (aka Maharaji) and All Interested Parties:

Subject: Attacks by Followers of Maharaji Over the Internet

The CAC website appears to have removed the defamatory material about me and others, although I am unsure how long that will last.

I will say that within the 48-hour deadline I gave Maharaji and Elan Vital, part of my demands have been fulfilled. The defamatory material has apparently been removed within the deadline. If Maharaji or Elan Vital had anything to do with it being removed, I praise them for doing the right thing and it restores my faith in the basic decency of people, including people I personally know who are still followers of Maharaji. But this is NOT the end of the story for me.

In my letter to Elan Vital and Maharaji of August 26, in addition to removal of the defamatory material, I also demanded a public statement by Prem Pal Singh Rawat that he specifically disapproved of that, particular, website, and the defamatory, homophobic, and of the illegal attacks that took place thereon, and that he disapproves of any similar actions by anyone associated with him.

Why do I feel this is necessary? Because tomorrow, or in the next 15 minutes, the same or another website, formed by the same or other fanatic devotees of Mr. Rawat could appear again and without a public statement by Mr. Rawat, I am concerned such a site likely will appear.

I and others have already been severely damaged by what adherents to the teachings of Mr. Rawat have done to us through the CAC website, (others more than me from what I know so far), and we have legitimate concerns that it might occur again. Moreover, the Maharaji followers who formed the CAC website say they are turning their 'database and resources', which I conclude includes our names and their false and twisted 'files,' on us over to other, unnamed, organizations, possibily legal, illegal, legitimate, racist or homophobic. The point is, we don't know.

Since the CAC website was viciously homophobic, among it's other crimes, this is of particular concern to me as a gay man. I demand that Elan Vital and Prem Pal Singh Rawat also make a statement that they disapprove of this action as well.

What have I learned from this? What I have learned is that the Maharaji cult is a lot more dangerous than I ever believed, and the same level of fanaticism, compartmentalized thinking, and Jihad mentality apparently still exists there, just as it did in the time of Mahatma Fakiranand, despite the facade of the modern and non-fanatical organization that Elan Vital presents. It is truly frightening.

It also reinforces my view that there are elements within the Maharaji cult who are following the path of other cults, who viciously attack former members who have the courage to speak out about what they found wrong with their former cult and reveal damaging information that the cult has tried very hard to keep secret. This is also frightening, given the pattern we have seen with Scientology and other cults.

I know that many, probably the vast majority of followers of Mr. Rawat, are good people, who aren't out to hurt others and wouldn't do so. Remember, I was once a follower of Mr. Rawat myself, and many of the people I knew at that time were wonderful, loving people who wouldn't dream of doing what the more fanatic devotees did. They are not the problem. It's the other element that's the problem, and if Mr. Rawat isn't very careful and very clear on reigning them in, he is a problem as well.

Is there something positive here? One thing that might be positive, is that I hope, like Way and Sir Dave said, that perhaps this might open a more constructive dialogue between current and former followers of Maharaji. I think we have seen that vitriol on both sides, although perhaps understandable, is not constructive. And I would like to make the following points.

1. Despite whatever else is said, if someone sincerely wants to be a follower of Maharaji, is having a good time doing that, he or she has every right to do so, and to speak openly about it. But they do not have the right to try to stop those who are critical of Maharaji and his organization, from speaking out or to attack them as people for doing so. And, of course, pwks and the organizations have every right to correct any misstatements that anyone says about what they are involved in. But it is generally not helpful, as most of the Pwk sites do, to simply label all statements and criticisms of Maharaji as 'lies' and not engage on the substance of the statements.

2. Likewise, anyone who used to be a follower of Maharaji, who feels he or she was damaged by their involvement with Maharaji, has an equal right to speak about it. But they do not have the right to prevent any follower of Maharaji from publicly disagreeing with them, and or to prevent them from correcting any errors of misperceptions that the former member might have. It is generally not helpful to label followers of Maharaji, or former followers as a monolithic group who all believe the exact same things.

And neither group has the right to harass or abuse anyone else. We are all human beings, whatever it is we believe, and we all have rights.

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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 13:44:01 (EDT)
From: Gail MacDougall
Email: None
To: Joseph A. Whalen
Subject: Re: To Elan Vital, Maharaji and Everyone
Message:

Very well put, Joe. What is this all about?

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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 02:37:17 (EDT)
From: SC
Email: None
To: Joseph A. Whalen
Subject: So your posts were all made up were they?
Message:

Yea, of course they were.

By the horrible evil CAC board of directors. Nasty men.

'And neither group has the right to harass or abuse anyone else.
We are all human beings, whatever it is we believe, and we all have rights.'

Boy that sounds convincing, especially coming from you.

NOT

When you stop pompously DEMANDING that Maharaji does you bidding perhaps you'd like to join the rest of us in the real world?

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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 15:43:46 (EDT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: SC
Subject: you? in'the real world'?!????
Message:

i cant begin to take you seriously until you start breaking out of the bubble/shell/shackles/delusions that you still think is 'the real world'.
if you lived in the real world, you wouldnt talk so funny. if you lived in the real world, you wouldnt be fighting us. if you lived in the real world, you wouldnt run halfway across the world so you could get the latest sayings of a fat guy and come back and rabidly live your life according to them or him.
in the real world, people know that everyone is the same. in the real world, no one goes around thinking themselves or somoene else is god on earth incarnate to save them--or someone else.
in the real world, opinions are like assholes and everyone has one. no one's is any better than any one else's.

in your world, your opinion is nothing and maharaji's opinion is all-wise, all knowing, all seeing, all commanding.
you might as well just worship his asshole.
obviously, HE does.
why else would he want--and get--a golden toilet to shit on? and who got it for him?

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 01:36:46 (EDT)
From: SC
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Wrong, In my world my opinion is everything
Message:

And the day you start taking me seriously.

Is the day I'm in serious Doggiedoodoo.

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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 14:11:58 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: SC
Subject: TO SC...FUCK OFF...
Message:

If you're such a good little premieji, why don't you go back to Lifes (sic) Great and give satsang?

You are a hypocrite of the worst kind. Get lost, you little flea, I'm allergic!

P.S. Rawat Sucks You and Your money, and you're in a CULT

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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 10:35:56 (EDT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: SC
Subject: Some were, some weren't
Message:

In some cases the quotes attributed to me were shear fabrications.

In some cases quotes of others were attributed to me.

In some cases quotes were taken out of context.

In some cases quotes were correct but given, bizarre, defamatory, and in some cases nosensical titles.

In most of the cases, especially the ones referring to sexual abuse and exploitation, the quotes were about Maharaji and Jagdeo, and the subjects should be familiar to you, since you read most of what gets said here.

Any other questions?

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 01:47:39 (EDT)
From: SC
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Trouble is Joe...
Message:

That us spectators (of CAC in this instance) have NO IDEA which posts were yours and which weren't so we have to make a sort of composite profile in our brains. And I'm sure you'll agree, that with a blending of all the posts, your profile tends to lean towards the more negative aspects of the poster. But I don't take it that seriously and am sure that like most, you're actually a great guy in the (gulp) real world.

For what it's worth (not much I know, Cynth and Jan) I don't regard any of you as stalkers in the real sense of the word.

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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 10:33:29 (EDT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: SC
Subject: Excuse Me??
Message:

When you stop pompously DEMANDING that Maharaji does you bidding perhaps you'd like to join the rest of us in the real world?

Yes, it's true. I live in the delusional world in which Maharaji is nothing more than an ordinary human being and expected to take responsibility for his actions. You, however, live in a cult with the one, true, understanding that Prem Pal Singh Rawat can't be demanded of anything because he is god. Thanks for setting me straight there. I sure needed it.

Glad you were impressed by my letter.

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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 02:32:38 (EDT)
From: Mercedes
Email: None
To: Joseph A. Whalen
Subject: Re: To Elan Vital, Maharaji and Everyone
Message:

Joe you are eloquent and very wise in your letter. Congratulations!
I agree that the threat still exists and that m and ev should issue a statement disapproving of it publicly.

What a cult mentality can do to people is really scary lets count our blessings for being out and free.

Mercedes

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Date: Tues, Aug 28, 2001 at 22:56:41 (EDT)
From: VC
Email: None
To: Joseph A. Whalen
Subject: Re: To Elan Vital, Maharaji and Everyone
Message:

I will say that within the 48-hour deadline I gave Maharaji and Elan Vital, part of my demands have been fulfilled.

You crack me up.... This shows your delusion:

1. That CAC have taken the site down because of your 'threat'...
2. That EV or Maharaji are behind CAC (ROLF)
3. That your deadlines mean anything to the CAC researchers

C'mon man, grow up and face reality!

ROLF ROLF ROLF!!!

VC

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Date: Tues, Aug 28, 2001 at 22:28:05 (EDT)
From: Silvia
Email: None
To: Joseph A. Whalen
Subject: Everyone, read- Good post! NT
Message:

y

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Date: Tues, Aug 28, 2001 at 14:50:47 (EDT)
From: Carl
Email: None
To: Joseph A. Whalen
Subject: Bravo. A call for respecting free speech.
Message:

Very clear and direct, Joe. Thank you for taking the trouble to compose such a strong statement, and in particular to call them on their homophobic stance.

Your recent letters, and several of Jim's lately, have been masterpieces of straightforward clarity and honor in defense of free speech and historical truth in the face of such tawdry viciousness and twisted, gratuitous slander as pumped out of the fearful sewer of the worst of M's so-called devotees.

One sincerely hopes that the CACA people are not representative of the majority of his sweet but unconscious/deluded minions. But the 'bongo' element has always been around. I suspect M or EV management had thought they could make use of that element, yet to keep adequate distance and a case for plausible denial. Either that or it was managed from the very top, which wouldn't be a pretty picture either. In any event, odds are they will choke on their own cleverness.

Again, bravo Joe.

Carl

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Date: Tues, Aug 28, 2001 at 15:14:34 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Carl
Subject: I imagine the EV monitors have to breathe heavy
Message:

Must be a lot of Holy Name action going on when they read this site, huh?

Well, EV Monitors, as you know, at least one of you has already left the cult after reading enough of the forum. Does that worry you at all? No? You sure?

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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 06:23:12 (EDT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Actually two monitors have quit..
Message:

I know well one fairly recent ex who was specifically tasked by EV (at national level) to monitor here with a view to some sort of PR damage-limitation strategy. Read the main site and journeys and was out of the cult sooner than you could say bholeshrisatgurudevmaharajkijai.

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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 09:08:26 (EDT)
From: SC
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: You mean
Message:

Nick Keely?

Don't worry, we'll have him shot at dawn sir.

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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 19:23:08 (EDT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: SC
Subject: So , you're an Englidh
Message:

[nt]

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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 19:34:40 (EDT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: Bin Liner
Subject: Re: So , you're an English operative .
Message:

Leave Nick alone, he's hardly posted on these forums.

Who are you ?

Sandy Collier maybe ?

Pat Dorrity

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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 11:30:48 (EDT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: SC
Subject: No. [nt]
Message:

[nt]

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Date: Tues, Aug 28, 2001 at 23:09:08 (EDT)
From: VC
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Delusional :(
Message:

...Well, EV Monitors...

Yet another delusional person.... Who do you think you are that warrants 'monitoring'? Give me a break! You and your pals are just a bunch of obsessed people with too much time in your hands and not much love (otherwise why do you spend soooo much of your time in here). You are obsessed and you know it. You have no love in your lives and you know it.

Mr. Heller,

You are not worth the time.... You have been exposed (together with your other few pals) as the worst kind of stalkers, hiding behind a facade of righteousness and free-speech to harrass Maharaji and his followers (cool uh? using bigotry, fear and obscenity and still maintain a facade of righteousness....)

There is no way back now. We all know who you and your pals are (bizarre, cultish, obesessed, obscene, arrogant, nuts, etc. etc.).

This is obvious to those that want to see the obvious.

VC

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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 16:01:34 (EDT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: VC
Subject: Re:stalkers
Message:

well Vc, that sounded like a stalking threat, to me. ominous, veiled, pointed, insinuating, malignant...whaddya think? CAC put up all the juicy information any stalker would want to collect before they set out on their mission to silence the infidels forever. In fact, i can't imagine any other use for putting such information up on a webpage about someone else. free individuals put up personal home pages all the time with photos and such, and business sites put up their place of business and phone contact information for any potential client to use. But headlining a page with nothing but 11 people's names in the metatags? and displaying their personal information against their consent?
and then deliberately distorting their honest words and omitting by ellipses the defining parties that make the accounts complete?
definitely stalking.
definitely criminal intent.

whatever you try to claim about us ex's, you can't say we are criminals. our record fails the test every time.
aint it weird? we were naive and got fooled, realized it, and are mad that we were, and are saying so.
you guys who are still fooled, are mad that we are telling you, and are so violently fooled that you actually want people to come and physically find us and destroy us.

that must be SOME joke, for you to believe in it that violently and totally.

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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 14:23:48 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: VC
Subject: SC you are a 1st class coward
Message:

You can name and defame anyone you want because you hide behind your fake name.

No courage, eh? Well, why don't you just get lost and go back to LG and give satsanga? Your mind has turned to Maharajism mush.

You have no sense of humanity because you are in the grips of a cult leader, Maharaji, who also has no sense of humanity. The only human (and that's a stretch) is himself.

Give us a break. Anger is not hate. Anger is anger.

But, buddy, gal, whoever you are, I'm starting to dislike you very, very much.

Go away, pest!

Cynthia J. Gracie,,,,,what's your name? Afraid????

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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 14:25:25 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: VC/SC...all the same to me n/t
Message:

asshole

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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 09:39:16 (EDT)
From: Silvia
Email: None
To: VC
Subject: YOU Delusional :( V
Message:

together with your other few pals)

Is 'few' an issue to determine if something is true?

Just because the cult has many followers doesn't mean they ALL are not delussional. The guru is a good story teller: From his own mouth... Y
You avoided answering my post few days a go? Why? Because you are a member of CACA, that is why.

O'm sorry for you. You have fallen in a cult and yoru life is passing you by. Dream on baby, dream.

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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 03:23:03 (EDT)
From: Steve
Email: None
To: VC
Subject: Re: Delusional :(
Message:

You're the one who's delusional pal.

EV have admitted to monitoring this forum - get in touch little lamb.

So you're full of love are you ? I suppose love includes being hateful in the world of cults does it ?

Why do you spend your time harrassing ex premies by trolling here?

You seem intellectually challenged. Take an educational course .

About the facade of righteousness- Got a mirror ?

We all know who your pals are- doubt you've got any with your personality or lack of.

Go away and dream on Mr Turing machine

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Date: Tues, Aug 28, 2001 at 23:23:16 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: VC
Subject: You have no credibility, do you?
Message:

Let's be honest, shall we? You're nothing, a ghost, a cowardly little cult member desparate to forestall the inevitable. So what's this now? A joke about my last name? Too funny. I haven't dealt with that level of stupidity since the last time a premie said something. Before that it was grade four.

Yes, VC, there are indeed EV monitors. One of them up and quit after reading all the facts about your insipid cult, the stuff he'd avoided looking at or for years.

And yes indeed CAC's on the run. You're damned right they are. If you ever get the courage to post under your own name we should talk abou this further. For now, you're a nothing, a nobody.

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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 00:15:31 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: You're a saint, Jim
Message:

How can you be bothered to read the cultweasel anonymice let alone answer them?

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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 09:43:59 (EDT)
From: Silvia
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: amusing to our minds
Message:

It gets better and better, as our master said. Too many drinks...the dream continues. I LOVE TO READ PREMIES' POSTS.

WE ARE FREE!

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Date: Tues, Aug 28, 2001 at 13:47:29 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Joseph A. Whalen
Subject: Beautifully written Joe
Message:

I am only just having my second cup of tea of the morning and can't add anything to it. In fact you said it all.

Apart from the serious harm done to the personal lives of three of CACs victims, I am very pleased that it happened because, in spite of having being taken of-line, CAC will not simply disappear. It has offered us the first concrete piece of evidence of cult paranoia and game-playing and has the ptotential to interest the press.

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Date: Tues, Aug 28, 2001 at 13:03:37 (EDT)
From: witheld
Email: None
To: Joseph A. Whalen
Subject: **Best of Forum, Joe Whalen*** [nt]
Message:

[nt]

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