Answers from Shri Guru Maharaj
Ji, Prem Nagar Ashram, November 1971, aided by blackboard
Q: When we die, what is it that goes to heaven or
GMJ: What happens is
this. Your actions have a certain weight, and they are
weighed, they are judged automatically. You fly from the
earth but your own fuel will only take you as far as this
crossing, here, where you have to stop. Then the judge
comes, decides which direction you have to turn, probably
to hell or to heaven, gives you the fuel you need, then
kicks you in the direction you have to go. Understood or
Q: I mean, it's not body
because the body stays behind....
GMJ: Yes. The body stays
in the graveyard. I mean the thing inside who is
responsible for you. O.K? Understood?
Q: If you are in the Word
when you die is your ego not involved, so you're just
GMJ: Free. Absolutely
free. Have you seen a carburetor? In a carburetor there
is a top part which is floating. And when the excess fuel
comes, it rises and blocks that ejector which is bringing
the petrol into the carburetor, right? But when you
meditate on this Holy Word, there is no top part, and
then the fuel never stops coming into you and so you are
elevated right up, up, and up. Like non-stop jet.
Understand? Non-stop jet to liberation.
Q: What does one do after
one is liberated?
GMJ: Anything he wishes,
that's all. Just see what a drop of water does when it is
mixed in a glass of water. I must give you that practical
example, right? What happens to a drop of water when it
goes into a glass? Same thing when you achieve
liberation. Have you understood? But don't think that
once you go to heaven you are not going to return back
here, right? You are going to return back. If you go to
heaven, don't worry about a thing because you certainly
are going to come back.
Q: How can it be heaven
if you come back?
GMJ: What is heaven? What
do you mean by heaven?
Q: I don't
GMJ: You don't know.
First know what is the meaning of heaven. See, what you
are thinking of as heaven is a place from where you don't
return. Right? But that place is right here.
Q: And what is that other
GMJ: That heaven is where
you go, you know, like a club. You go in and pay your
money's worth. Understand? And this is like a jail. You
do an action, the police come, take you up to the jail.
Once your sentence is finished, you are free.
Q: What about the man who
has both good and bad? He has some things that would send
him to hell, and some things that would send him to
GMJ: That is all judged
by the judge. This system is so far out that everything
is correct to any extent you think. You are asked where
you want to go first, hell or heaven. Heaven is like
that. There was a rich man once, and he went to heaven
and knocked on the door. And the secretary came and
opened the door and said, "What is the matter? What do
you want here? "
He said, "I want to enter
He said, "Well, I want to
So he said, "God, this guy wants
to enter heaven."
So God said, "Call
And he came. And God asked
"Have you done anything
So the rich man said, "Well,
yes. I have given ten pennies to a widow."
He said, "That's
He said, "Well, I have given
five pennies to an orphan child."
And he said, "Yes, that's all I
have done good."
So God asked his secretary what
to do. And the secretary said, "God, give him fifteen
cents and send him back to hell. "
Q: Does liberation have
to be in the body?
GMJ: You know, once you
take Knowledge you are reserved for liberation, you are
completely liberated. And you can only take Knowledge
when you are here.
Q: But you said when you
go up to heaven you are judged whether you are to be
liberated or not.
GMJ: Not heaven. Here, on
this crossing, right here. Here. O.K? This is where you
are judged. Not in heaven. Here. At the crossing. At the
Q: Is this as soon as
somebody takes Knowledge, or is it when they realize
Knowledge that they are reserved for
GMJ: As soon as a man
takes Knowledge, he is liberated. Right there. Because he
is no more attached, he has given his body to Guru
Maharaj Ji. What else is liberation?
Q: Many of us, when we
take Knowledge, we say we give you our body, we give you
our mind, but we have been unable to give you body and
Well, you should give your mind
only, that will do. And I will tell you the method for
doing that practically. It is meditation. When you are
not doing meditation, you know what happens? Your mind is
right here, and you cannot catch it. But when you do
meditation you get away from it, like this, and then you
just catch it. O.K? That is the method. Then you catch it
and say, "Guru Maharaj Ji, this is my mind." You
understand? So this is the secret. Meditation makes you
firm. And the faster the meditation, the faster the
progress. The slower the meditation, the slower the
progress. That's all. It's perfectly symmetrical, you
know. Have you seen those balloons which carry people?
When you lower the weight, you are elevated. Right? Same
thing The more you are elevated, because you are
lightened. Try to meditate on it. Yes, what's the
Q: Who's the
GMJ: Known as Dharma Raj.
Dharma Raj. O.K?
Q: What does that
Q: Is the judge a
GMJ: Judge is your
brother, that's why he favours you.
Q: Does the liberated
soul have full powers?
GMJ: The liberated one
has got no powers at all. The liberated one is completely
surrendered. Surrendered. Does not occupy his own
anything. Completely surrendered.
Q: Are we just talking
about earth, or can you return to any other
GMJ: Well, you'll have to
contact TWA, Trans World Airlines, about that. They can
tell you. You can send a telex to London.
Q: If someone has
received the Knowledge, but never practices, what happens
at the judgement time, does he go fast or does he
GMJ: Now, when he has
received Knowledge, but is not meditating upon it,
a double-top is placed in
the carburettor, and the power becomes very restricted.
That man has to push himself like this, and jerks out to
this place, like an old man climbing up the stairs, a
very old man. Have you seen a very, very old man,
climbing up the stairs? How he jerks himself? Goes and
steps, then stops. Goes and steps, then stops.
Q: Sometimes he falls
down the steps.
GMJ: Yes, that's right.
Q: Before you go to hell
and get punished in hell, why do you have
GMJ: Let me explain. In
hell, to finish up your spell in hell, you must be sent
to earth. I will explain to you later how the soul goes
from here to there, and how this hell is
Q: Is that ticket on the
express jet, is that a one-way ticket?
GMJ: The ticket on the
express jet, the non-stop jet to Mukti (Liberation), is
one way. But you can get a two-way ticket. You can get
it, if you want it. But then you will have to take body.
I told you somewhere, where? In Los Angeles?
Q: Is that what Jesus did
in his body?
GMJ: His body was right
beside the soldier. See, I'll tell you. Now we are
talking about the jets. When we want a two-way ticket, we
are sent here, O.K? And we are given all the privileges
that have to be given in Mukti. Hanuman came with Ram,
right? And he stayed like a humble disciple fully at the
foot or Ram, right? And then Arjuna came He was always at
His Lotus Feet. He who was the creator of Mukti even.
They were at the Lotus Feet of that authority. So
automatically they were in heaven. Understand? This is
the condition of the two-way. Becoming immortal,
immortal. You may see a picture of Krishna driving the
chariot; you will see that Hanuman is sitting on the top
of that flag on the chariot. And wherever you see that
picture of that chariot so you also see Hanuman sitting
right there. Like this is Guru Maharaj Ji's Lotus Feet,
right? So this is the disciple who requires a two-way
ticket, so that this can be done to him. Understood?
(Maharaj Ji places piece of chalk in his shoe). Like
this, the disciple will be right against His foot.
Understood? Never be separated.
Q: The person who has
reached the place, is he aware of having reached the
place, or is there awareness left?
GMJ: Mukti, the
liberation place? When he reaches there, you know, when
he gets on that plane, his awareness has been taken by
Q: So then he is not even
aware that he is there?
GMJ: He is no 'he' there.
His 'he', 'I' and 'you' are taken here only. His petrol
was totally filtered. Nothing like 'I'. Completely taken.
When there is no 'I', there is no 'we'.
Q: A person that is
liberated 'is' no longer.
GMJ: 'Is'? I'll tell you.
Can you see the dropper, everybody? Can you see the
glass? Now this drop goes, one two, three, four, five.
Did you see them? Can you distinguish them in this glass?
Have you figured it out?
GMJ: Yes, liberated.
Q: That's all right for
the water, Guru Maharaj Ji, what about me?
GMJ: Don't worry. Same
way, O.K? Understood? Whenever we are placed in the jet,
that takes place. Completely filtered, completely mixed.
Q: When the drop falls
into the glass, you can't see the difference. But how
about the drop, does it know?
GMJ: No. Why does it even
want to know? Man would not like to know himself at that
point. Because he has become so tired of remembering
himself. Now he would like to be completely part of
somebody else and that is of his origin, where he never
knew who he was. What is a child's name? What does he
pronounce by himself? Who are you? (to baby) And he,
Ahhhhh? (Baby replies) Who are you? Ahhhhh. Because he
never knows what his name is. In his origin he is placed
right back, fully back. O.K? Everybody has understood?
Any questions on this, about what I have explained up to
Q: My question is this.
You know you came from Mukti and you have come to the
earth, you've gone for several lifetimes, going to heaven
and hell in between and you've gone through all of this
process through eons of time and then you go back to
Mukti, so what is the point?
GMJ: The question is not
why have you gone back to Mukti. The question is, why
have you been separated from Mukti. Why have you been
separated? You have been given an aim which has to be
fulfilled. Every human man who has been separated from
Mukti, from his origin, has been given an aim. An aim.
A-l-M. Understand? Everybody has been given an aim. To be
completely worked out. And thus he plays an act, he plays
a role, so that he may complete it. For that aim has to
be completed, by the Divine Will.
Q: If we were complete to
begin with, why did you make us separated and having to
go through the whole thing again?
GMJ: Just for that aim.
What else? Try to understand.
Q: I think they're trying
to ask why there is an aim.
GMJ: Is that right? Why
there is an aim? O.K, open up your ears. Because of the
Divine Will. Understood? Because of an opportunity. Do
Q: How does one discern
one's aim, what it is in one's life?
GMJ: One must go to a
spiritual master to find it out. One has to do
meditation. One has to be again on that path.
Q: Was part of that aim
to enjoy the universe? To enjoy the creation?
GMJ: A little bit. A
little bit. But not to eat, drink and be merry. Have you
understood? Really? Really? O.K. I'll stay five minutes
Q: What is the aim of the
GMJ: The aim of the
Divine Will is Divine Will. At the moment I can see
everybody. If I raise my eyes I come to this line here,
and if I raise my eyes again I come to that pink thing,
and then if I raise my eyes again I see the roof, and
that's all I can see. And what is the purpose of it? That
is not for you. That is for Divinity. For the Divine
Grace of the Divine Personality.
Q: I understand this, the
words are easy to understand. But will I know before I
leave here that it's true, just because you said it? If I
meditate and do my job, will
I know what you say is true because you say
GMJ: The thing is
this. This is what I've been telling you, and I'll repeat
it, I'll repeat it three times. The most truthful thing I
say is the Divine Word which you pronounce at every
second of your life. And that Word is spoken by the
Divine Mouth. So what is real truth? If you want to
understand me, you must meditate. Not even by my words
will you understand. You can only understand me by
Q: Maharaj Ji, why did
you choose us?
GMJ: So, whom should I
choose? Donkeys? If I choose you it is your opportunity.
What is the harm? Is there any harm in it? So be glad
about it. Why be bothered about it?
O.K. Recess. After five minutes
assemble here. Yes, I'll be back, I have to explain you
the works of hell and heaven.
(Five minutes later)
Now, we have changed the diagram
a little bit. Previously we were talking about hell and
heaven, but now we are going to identify, to verify the
states of heaven and hell. Now, hell is the place where
man goes to receive his punishment, and if it is possible
to give him the punishment in hell only, he'll be given
the punishment there. Right?
Understood? And if the
punishment cannot be given in hell, he will be sent back
to the earth. Understood? But, when he once comes to
earth, he'll be given chance to enjoy both; punishment
and heaven also! Understood?
When he comes
to earth he'll be given both things to do which he had to
do, good and bad, reward and punishment. And he'll do
them on the earth. Understood? Clearly? So that's why
people come here; they are rich for a little time, you
know, and they enjoy themselves, but then the riches
become less and then they start enjoying the hell. Their
punishment now starts coming to them. Understand? So this
is very clear. And now I'll tell you of devotion.
Devotion is a two-way ticket. But with this two-way
ticket, you don't go here to Mukti. You go to that place.
You don't go to liberation, but you stay here and this is
devotion. Every benefit that you were supposed to have in
liberation, you will get. Right? That means being away
from Karma, away from actions and always in the bliss and
the radiance of the Lord. That place will be given to you
while you are on the earth with the Lord, with the human
form, with the physical presence of the Lord. That is
called devotion. As long as the devotee is there, the
Lord can project devotion out of him. Understood? You
know, if there is no devotee, how can there be devotion?
Can there be devotion without devotee? How can there be?
There can't. So, if there is devotion, there has to be
devotee. Have you understood now? And if there has to be
devotee, he has to be in a physical form. A devotee has
to devote something. Have you understood that? So he has
to be in physical form. And where is it possible for him
to be in physical form? On the earth. And with whom can
he be in the physical form? With the Lord, who is in His
physical form. He has to be with the physical Lord who
has come into this physical world with a physical body.
Understood? It's crystal clear on the
Q: Where should we
GMJ: Where should you go?
You know, it is recommended for you to apply for
devotion. Why? Because you live in the physical form, so
enjoy nature with the physical Lord. What else do you
want? To be with the Lord and enjoy nature too!
Beautiful. Far out.
Q: Isn't the Lord within
all physical forms?
GMJ: But the Lord himself
has got a physical form. The Lord is within everybody.
He's omnipresent. But He himself, for this world, has got
a particular physical form. And He came by Himself into
this world to spread this Holy Word.
Q: There can be more than
one perfect devotee, right?
GMJ: There can be more
than one perfect devotee, but there cannot be more than
one Perfect Master. O.K? Anything else?
Q: What's the difference
between liberation and devotion?
GMJ: In liberation, you
no longer have a body. And there is no reaction of
karmas, no reaction of actions. Understood? But in
devotion there are the same rules and regulations. We
have got a body, we must perform actions, but we are not
affected by Karma.
Q: But to become
liberated, we must be devoted, right?
GMJ: Yes, I would
Q: Should we all follow
your physical form ?
GMJ: You know, it is up
to you, what you choose. If you want devotion, well and
good. I'm ready to give it to you. If you want
liberation, it's also good. Easy question, less
understanding. Easier question needs lesser
understanding. You must understand it more than you are
doing now. Less laughing, more understanding. Understood?
Devotion and liberation. O.K? Suppose the choice was
given to you, liberation or devotion, and you choose
liberation, O.K? You leave this place, earth, you are
expired, and you go, and can be caught no more. This is
what we call liberation. This is liberation. Mukti. This
is liberation. Our place of birth, which has been known
as, you know, the permanent residence of the Lord.
Understood or not? Now, devotion is done at the Lotus
Feet. And when you are here, you cannot be detached from
liberation. Real liberation is at the Lotus Feet of
Satgurudev. This is the devotee. And you are completely
attached to the Lotus Feet.
Q: In other words,
liberation is going to the formless. Devotion stays with
the form being merged with the formless at the same time.
And when you receive Knowledge and start meditating
firmly on it, you will attain that which you
Q: Could we devote
ourselves entirely to liberation through meditation? No
service, nothing else? Could we just withdraw?
GMJ: If you do that, your
meditation won't become firm. You won't be able to keep
up your meditation. This is a practical thing. This has
been written in the Ramayana also a devotee cannot keep
meditation in his grip unless he has got service and
satsang as well. O.K?
Q: If you choose devotion
are you always living in this world?
GMJ: Yes, because the
Master is in the world. But it means living without
suffering, no suffering at all. Without suffering. Like a
Q: What happens when the
physical body of the Lord dies? Does devotion
GMJ: No. You know, when
you are attached to the Lotus Feet, to the radiance, to
the bliss of the physical form, it is forever. If a
devotee comes to this earth with the Lord, and he is
completely devoted, 'he' is no more 'he'. He has merged
completely into the Lord. 'He' is no more 'he'. It is
like this. This is Lord, right, and this is 'he' and he
goes and fixes himself here. (Maharaj Ji puts chalk
between His toes.)
Understood now? And that's why
we take privilege of Guru Maharaj Ji's grace.
Q: Can we reach the stage
of merging with the Word before we leave this
GMJ: You can achieve this
stage before leaving the body.
Q: How many of us have
GMJ: I have chosen
devotion. Devotion is beautiful. Yes?
Q: Does that mean that a
devotee is always with Satguru, life after
Q: Have we all been with
Q: How can we please
Meditation, devotion, liberation.
Q: What happens when
there is no universe, do we all go back to
GMJ: The universe will be
rechecked and if you are there you will see. All the
trees that have been sowed will have to be reborn
Q: Does Perfect Master
have to become pure, realize his soul before he becomes
GMJ: Not only realize the
soul, he has to be perfectly realized, he has to be
without sin, then he becomes Perfect Master.
Q: It says in the
Bhagavad Gita that there is no individual personal soul,
that the individual self is an illusion that has to be
GMJ: That is 'I', that is
ego, and that has to be overcome. Ego come, delusion
come, black light come. Opposite projection. Mind always
brings duality, and what is the other word we use for
duality? Individual? This is my individual property, that
means this is mine, that is yours. That's why there is
delusion. Really there is no individuality. When
everybody is one, there should be no individuality.
Everything should be one. But ego carries the word 'I'
with it. 'I' is the individuality, the mind.
Q: When a person becomes
merged in the Word, is it purely on his own
GMJ: You need grace.
Q: Do we need to stay in
your physical presence to receive grace?
GMJ: Not really. You can
talk into the walkie-talkie and ask for grace and it will
be sent express delivery.
Q: Do only people or
human forms have souls, or does every created thing have
GMJ: There are many
created things which don't have souls. This building has
been created, but I don't think it has a soul.
Q: What about grass and
stones and mountains.
GMJ: They have been made
for you, to be utilized by you. When you read, you know,
in the beginning God created fruits and all that, that's
what it means.
GMJ: Not to
Q: No, no, not to eat,
but for burdens. They don't have souls.
GMJ: They do.
Q: They do have
GMJ: They're suffering
Q: All the animals are
suffering hell? Some of them appear to be very, very
GMJ: Yes, but even then
they are suffering. They cannot express themselves to the
man whom they are under.
Q: But you can see the
expression in their eyes' like a dog7
GMJ: Even then, they
can't express what they're feeling. A little bit, but not
all. Well, we have gone on to dogs and cats.
Q: Were we devoted
without receiving Knowledge? Had we devoted ourselves to
receiving this Knowledge?
GMJ: Well, that's partly
Q: We never received this
Knowledge before though?
GMJ: If you had been a
devotee, then you must have received this Knowledge
Q: Did we receive it and
GMJ: In that case you
wouldn't be in this form. You would have been a dog or
Q: We came here because
of something? Some good actions?
GMJ: Yes, you came here
through something. Maybe grace. Maybe actions. You came
here, that's all. That's enough.
Q: Is this message of
grace, is it stronger when you're in the physical
presence of the Lord, or is the walkie-talkie method just
GMJ: Walkie-talkie method
is just as good.
Q: Could it be a person's
objective to stay in the Lord's presence as much as
possible, or does that hurt him.
GMJ: No, that is
something else. That is a personal preference. If one
prefers to be in the physical presence, then one is more
in physical presence. If one prefers to be in the
walkie-talkie presence, then one is more in the
Q: Is it possible in this
lifetime to have total self satisfaction?
GMJ: Maybe in 5 seconds,
maybe in 5 months, maybe in 5 years, maybe in 5
centuries, maybe in 5 births. Or maybe in l/5th of a
second. Up to you, how much you meditate. How much you
Q: When we do become
really realized in this lifetime then we may still come
back to live as a devotee again.
GMJ: But again then you
will have to realize this Knowledge. You'll become
a devotee. You'll become like
Hanuman. Once you have chosen devotion, the Lord himself
will come to search you out, instead of you searching for
Q: So it will happen
again and again, we'll all be your devotees life after
life, again realizing every time?
GMJ: Yes, but you won't
be separated from the Lord for a long time.
Q: At the beginning, God
had the urge to know himself...
GMJ: God has the urge to
Q: Yes, in his pure form.
Before the creation there was no duality, there was only
GMJ: No. You are trying
to mix two theories at a time. How can God try to realize
Himself? It sounded very strange, that God should try to
know Himself. God is perfect. He has got nothing to know.
He has only to output. He has got nothing for input. He
has only got a lead for devotion, to hold it. He has got
nothing else, just the grace to give away to people. No,
you are the first person whom I heard say God tried to
Q: I meant had an urge to
GMJ: Now, what is a
Q: Soul is
GMJ: And don't you think
that soul is a part of God?
Q: Of course.
GMJ: Of course, right.
Now if a soul is with the awareness of itself, then God
is aware of Himself. So how can He not be
Q: Yes, He is aware of
Himself, but when He gets into a
GMJ: Even then.
Q: Why does God like
devotion so much?
GMJ: Because he likes it.
It is his hobby to collect devotion.
Q: Events from previous
lifetimes, are these illusions when we think we can
GMJ: I don't believe
that. It is wasting your time to think of what is past.
And even if you knew the future you wouldn't be able to
change it anyway. What's the use of knowing? Even if I
knew what will be done tomorrow, how can I change it? I
can't change it. So, you know, trying to know the past
and the future is only wasting time.
You know that there has been a
galaxy of saints, a galaxy of avatars, a galaxy of
incarnations, and like Lord Buddha said, the Truth is
one, not two or three or four or five. And on the subject
of Truth, nobody gave a long discussion, understand?
Truth is one, and the clever people, because of it, don't
argue and discuss. Understand? And because Truth is the
reality which dwells amongst you and everybody, it is a
common thing. But being common, we cannot realize it
until and unless we have got a medium, until we have got
a method. But if you don't apply the medium, you won't be
able to reach your destination.