John Wood of the Boston Globe
conducted this interview with Guru Maharaj JI in Newton,
Massachusetts. August 3, 1973.
Wood: I hear people talking about who is Guru Maharaj Ji? but I
don't hear an answer.
Maharaj Ji: It has to be practically realized. There has to be a
practical experience before somebody can realize who is really Guru.
What is the definition for a sun? You can say, a ball shining, but
it's really not enough, you know. You've got to see the sun. And then
you can understand it.
Wood: Is the practical experience you have given the same for
people here as elsewhere?
Maharaj Ji: It's just the same. Actually, this is called revealing
Knowledge. Knowledge is already within inside of us all. It's already
there. It has to be known.
Wood: In our discussion before you came down, this question of Who
is Guru Maharaj Ji resolved into many other pretty large questions:
what is light? why are we here? - Can these be answered?
Maharaj Ji: Answered verbally - might not be possible. But yes -
there is a very practical answer to it. And that's the realization
itself. Language was made for communication, a frequent communication
between people. And it is so finite, it's so little, it's just not
perfect to relate what is perfect within inside of us. But when we
understand the energy, when we understand the source, that is the
Wood: How do we realize it?
Maharaj Ji: Well, it's a very simple procedure: Ask and you shall
be given, knock and it shall be opened unto you. That's what Jesus had
to say about it. Really that is the procedure. You go to a Perfect
Master. If you want to drink water you have to go a tap. You can tell
someone else to bring water to you, but he has to go to the tap. The
tap is the source.
Wood: Many of the things that I've read about you have incorporated
quotations from the Bible or from other religious sources. What is
your relationship to those? To say, Jesus.
Maharaj Ji: You see, the point is, I have realized that energy as
Wood: John, the disciple?
Maharaj Ji: Right. John, a disciple of Jesus, wrote about the Word.
Jesus himself revealed this Knowledge to people. I have realized that
Knowledge so I know what they are talking about in the Bible, and what
they are talking about in the Koran. I know what they are talking
about in the Gita, I know what they are talking about in the Ramayana.
Because I have known that perfect Knowledge that they are talking
Wood: Would your role be analogous then to John the disciple or to
Jesus the Christ?
Maharaj Ji: Well, I just don't put myself in any of those. I'm just
a humble servant trying to preach this Knowledge to people.
Wood: A humble servant of -
Maharaj Ji: Of God. Of this most Supreme Energy. I don't say I am a
Messiah, I don't say I'm a prophet, I don't say all those things.
Wood: They are said of you -
Maharaj Ii: People say, people say... actually the most common
thing they say about me is that I am a Perfect Master. And what they
mean by Perfect Master is the one who can reveal perfectness. Like one
who teaches you math, you call him a math master, one who teaches you
science, you call him a science master, one who can teach you
perfectness, you call him a Perfect Master. And I can teach them what
is perfectness, so they call me Perfect Master.
Wood: How do you feel you've been received in this country in terms
of people following you or in terms of the people that aren't
Maharaj Ji: My followers come to the airport and they do
prostration to me, they give me all these presents and they throw
flowers on me: the third person, it just completely blows him right
out. He can't understand what's going on.
Wood: To the third person who sees this?
Maharaj Ji: Yes. But, actually, it's very simple because this is
the point: they love me and I love them. It's as straight and as
simple as that.
Wood: How do you make the third person understand?
Maharaj Ji: When he realizes the same Knowledge, he also
Wood: And how does'he realize it?
Maharaj Ji: If he just takes seeds and throws them on the ground,
he's a fool, a big fool. He has to go and take his tractor, fertilize
the soil, and make sure that it is okay for these seeds. Naturally it
is not going to be okay, so he makes it okay. And when he's made sure
that everything is A Okay, he goes ahead and sows.
When a man comes to us he is confused, he's looking for Knowledge.
He's confused and unsatisfied. We give him the introduction to this
Knowledge. We tell him really what he wants. And when he understands
it more and more, then it's like fertilizing and driving a tractor.
And when he understands completely and perfectly, that, "yes, this is
it," then he can go ahead and sow those seeds.
This Knowledge was only given to those disciples of Jesus who came
to him. He couldn't give it to Pilate. He couldn't give it to all
those soldiers. Otherwise, that would have been the best thing for him
to do and they would have understood that he was the Lord and the
Messiah of the time. But if you take that small seed and try to sow it
in a rock, it'll never grow.
It's mind which is causing freak out. We tell people to control the
mind, Instead of telling them to slow down the car, we tell them to
leave the accelerator. And that does slow down the car.
Wood: What is the purpose of the mind?
Maharaj ji: There is a definite purpose of a mind, but really we
can't understand it till we have understood the aim of our human life.
It is there to put selection into our lives. It is there like a,
like a judge. When you go somewhere, you can test through it. It's
like your tongue, a tongue of perception in this world. But the point
is, you have to understand the main purpose in your life.
Wood: What do you see as the role of other religions now in the
Maharaj Ji: Well, this is a question that people ask me, "What do
you think about this?" but really, I don't have to. I don't have
anything to say about these religions, because I have not tried them.
I think if they know what they are doing, then they might be right in
what they're doing.
Wood: Do you think that there is only one Perfect Master?
Maharaj Ji: You see - here I want to be very frank - people come to
me and ask me about this, and they say, "What's your opinion about a
Perfect Master? Is there one, is there two?" I tell them my opinion,
that there is only one Perfect Master. Because perfectness is one, not
two, not three So, there is one Perfect Master in this world. And
because he is perfect, that's it. He is perfect. You just can't divide
perfect. I think it's funny saying that; it's just as funny as saying
that the car had tires on top, and car had tires on the bottom. That's
just like saying there are two Perfect Masters. You are just dividing
perfectness into two - you can't do that. There has to be one Perfect
Master, because perfectness is infinite, you just can't divide it. It
has to be one.
Wood: What happens after the Perfect Master dies or leaves?
Maharaj Ji: See, to us Perfect Master dies, but Perfect Master
never really dies. This is one of the things that every Christian
says. "Christ left his body; Christ died for us." And the one thing I
have not been able to understand is this: if Christ was son of God,
how could he die? When the body disintegrates, the elements dissolve.
They go back where they belong. But that energy can never die. I don't
see what died in Jesus.
Wood: So that energy is still alive.
Maharaj Ji: What we think is dead, never dies. if we can realize
what that is. People who have realized Jesus - for him he is always
there, he can never die. It's as if we have a picture, and the frame
breaks, we don't say the picture broke, do we? Do we say that?
Maharaj Ji: See, because the picture is the main thing, not the
frame, and the frame broke, let it break. The picture is the main
thing that we are concerned with. Because I have realized that picture
within. I know that what you are is not you, but something behind you,
inside you, that is you. And that is how I relate to it. Wood: And
that can be realized?
Maharaj Ji: By this Knowledge.
Wood: The Knowledge can be realized through that spirit?
Maharaj Ii: No. It has to be revealed. By a Perfect Master.
Wood: By a living Perfect Master?
Maharaj Ji: By a living Perfect Master. I was going to give you an
example of Kennedy and Johnson. When Kennedy left his body, they
didn't say all right, Kennedy is still going to be President. They put
Wood: I've never understood what you are in India. Your father was
also Perfect Master -
Maharaj Ji: Yes, he was Perfect Master, and then, when he left his
body he commanded me to continue his job.
Wood: But didn't your father have a following before there was a
Divine Light Mission?
Maharaj Ji: Before there was a Divine Light Mission, there was a
Guru to my father also.
Wood: Then there has been a steady succession of Perfect Masters -
Maharaj Ji: There have always been Perfect Masters coming into this
Wood: Will there be another one?
Maharaj Ji: Yes. After me.
Wood: The people who have picked up on this movement in this
country seem to he the younger generation. Why is that?
Maharaj Ji: Well, not really - there are other people, too. But
there are many youngsters because young people have gone through a
desperate search. They have gone to everything - drugs and anything
you want to say, you know? They've just gone through the whole trip.
And still they have not perfectly realized what that Knowledge is,
see? So when they come here, they realize this Knowledge, that it's
what they have been searching for. They have to cling to it, and they
realize what it was they wanted. Understand?
Wood: Yes. I think so. You have more experience with Knowledge than
your disciples do, but do you have the knowledge of how to reach other
people with it?
Maharaj Ji: Sure, because I have reached more people than they
have, more people than they have even seen in their life-six million
people. That's the last counting.
Wood: You were saying before, that you expect to see peace on earth
in your lifetime.
Maharaj Ji: You will be able to see peace in this world on people's
faces. This is one thing a London newspaper wrote, that if you see a
well-dressed man who has got a glow on his face, if he's really
shining, it means he's from Divine Light Mission.
They have realized peace, and peace can't hide itself. It just
comes out. And when everybody is going to realize it, it's going to be
Wood : Will everybody realize this then?
Maharaj Ji: It's not a hard job. For sure to the people who see
this world and see us, it might seem a hard job because they only see
five or six people around me. But that's not it. There's six million
people reaching at least. It's not hard for one man to reach two
people a day - you understand? And six million people are reaching two
people a day - how much does that count to? That's it. That's how we
are growing so fast.
Wood: Is there any usefulness in attacking what seems to be the
concrete problems of the earth such as poverty and hunger?
Maharaj Ji: See today people are not satisfied, and they want more
and more for themselves. And that has stopped the communication for
poor people to be reached. That has just stopped up all the holes.
I have been busier propagating this Knowledge, actually, than
studying. This country seems to be doing fine, as a matter of fact,
but still people are not satisfied, so -
Wood: I'm interested in whether the poverty issue is an important
question to answer or not.
Maharaj Ji: Poverty has to be released from the world. You can't
give an answer to it, and you can't have a question to it. If you know
poverty is there, you must get it out of there. That's the way I see
Wood: How do you get it out of there?
Maharaj Ji: That's what I'm working on - by giving everybody two
legs to walk on.
Wood: Once one has the Knowledge, what should one do then?
Maharaj Ji: He should meditate upon it, he should concentrate upon
the Knowledge. And then he has peace. But really it's very hard to
explain it, because this is practical, it's like trying to explain to
someone the experience of a pinch. You can't tell somebody the
experience of a pinch until you pinch them.
Wood: In the reading that I've done about you, two things that seem
to interest people and that seem odd to people are, first, that you
are fifteen years old and, second, that you are so playful.
Maharaj Ji: People think that when a Guru comes into the world that
he is going to be as serious as a stone, that he is never going to
laugh. But one who has found happiness, if he is not going to be
happy, then who is going to be happy? Not the guy who is sad.
And people take the idea of age - if somebody wears red glasses and
tries to figure out the world, everything seems red to him. See?
People have limited themselves in age, people have limited themselves
in time, and that's why they see age in me. I don't see anything in me
- I don't see age.
See, the point is, we need this Knowledge. Man does not need gold
to survive. He can live without gold. Man cannot drink water
twenty-four hours a day, man cannot eat food twenty-four hours a day.
What does he need? All the time he is longing for satisfaction. And
that he needs.
Wood: Why is it so hard to look for internal satisfaction?
Maharaj Ji: Because we are just not looking the right way.
Wood: But why do we always look in the wrong way?
Maharaj Ji: Because we are so ignorant. And that's why there is a
Perfect Master on top of our heads to tell us that we're looking the
wrong way, and to turn us around. That's what Jesus did. He went to
people and told them about this Knowledge, he told them what was right
and what was wrong.
Wood: What do people think that a Guru will be?
Maharaj Ji: (laughing) Everybody has a different image of a Guru.
That you will have a beard, or you will wear white robes.
Wood: People seem to have trouble believing that a Guru or a
Perfect Master exists now -
Maharaj Ji: History is a pendulum, it goes and comes back again.
Jesus was there, and people were seeing him. Some people said, "Oh, we
believe he is a Perfect Master." Others said, "He just can't be a
Perfect Master," and other people said, "I don't know. I just don't
want to get confused." And the same thing is happening right now, it's
just a larger amount of people than at that time. But, when the sun
shines, it does not need proof. When the Perfect Master comes and
reveals himself, that's it.
Wood: Have you given thought to your being so contemporary? You
seem to be troublesome to some people, I'm sure.
Maharaj Ji: Again, it's like this that they wear these red glasses,
and say, "Wow! Wow! He's so red!" What do you say to those people? You
aren't red, yourself, but they see you as red. They see me riding in a
car, but the point is, that car has been given to me by Divine Light
Mission for a useful purpose. If Jesus comes today, they are not going
to give him a donkey. Nobody is going to do that. They waste more than
a couple of billion dollars probably on a church. I don't know how
much they are going to waste when he comes into this world.
If a child is lost, and it comes back to its mother, the first
thing they are going to do is embrace, you know? Because love's right
there. They were lost, and they found what they wanted. And the mother
has realized this in her son, and son has realized this in his mother.
People have realized who I am, but it's really nothing, it's nothing
for me you know. It's all for this Knowledge, and all for the world.
But people look at it with a completely different view. It's very hard
to convince them. But I don't think it's a problem, because they will
understand. No problem.
Wood: Do you have an individual character?
Maharaj Ji: I do try to follow something. I live a certain way.
Wood How do you try to live?
Maharaj Ji: Neat and clean. Do meditation and live happily. But, I
don't see myself as an individual character.
Wood: How do you see yourself?
Maharaj Ji: I don't even see myself till I go to a mirror. I don't
have any opinions about me. I understand who I am, that's it.
Wood Who are you?
Maharaj Ji: Well, what is inside of me, what I really am, not
talking in terms of body, is that most supreme energy, which is -
within inside of you also. But you do not know, it has to be revealed.
This subject is really interesting, it's really far out, this
Knowledge, and to understand what is within inside of us, it's just
beautiful, it's just fantastic.
Wood: Does the Knowledge affect the activities of the world?
Maharaj Ji: Yes, it does affect activities. Because when we realize
Knowledge we are at peace. We are running such a big organization, and
if we hadn't received Knowledge, we would have been up to something
miserable in this world.
Now just imagine; I have a following of six million people, and
whatever I tell them, they are going to do that. And among those six
million people, there are millions of people who are criminals. They
have murdered people, they have committed many crimes. They have been
to jail and they know what it's all like - And if I tell them now,
they would do it. They would murder anyone off the street. We could be
hijacking planes, and stealing cars off the roads, and killing people
and doing other things. But we have realized that Knowledge, and so
the whole movement is completely different.
Wood: Would your followers do whatever you told them to do?
Maharaj Ji: They would be most pleased to.
Wood: What if you told them to do something that was against their
Maharaj Ji: I wouldn't. I wouldn't. I can tell somebody to jump out
of the window, he will do that. But I won't tell him to do it. Because
I have also realized Knowledge.
Wood: So you wouldn't tell him that.
Maharaj Ji: We understand, you know, what his ability is. I'll just
tell him to do what is appropriate for him.
Wood: How do you give the Knowledge?
Maharaj Ji: It's the whole thing, you know. It's like trying to ask
the whole thing which is impossible for me to explain in words,
because it's a most practical thing that has to be done.
Wood: Can I ask what is done?
Maharaj Ji: You can realize it yourself, you know. I can't just
describe in words what is done. Knowledge is Knowledge. You ask for it
and it shall be given to you. That's probably the nearest you can talk
about Knowledge right there, about getting Knowledge.
Wood: What should I write in a newspaper about you? What is
important to write?
Maharaj Ji: About this Knowledge. About this peace. You can write a
whole big article about my life and it is going to help nobody -
nobody at all. But if you talk about Knowledge, it sure is going to
help many thousands of people.
Wood: Okay. Thank you very much.